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The Same 'OL' Story Up Front

The offensive line performed so poorly Sunday that Coach Jim Zorn said he significantly pared down the offensive game plan in the 20-17 loss to the Carolina Panthers. Was anyone really surprised?

As has been reported, the Redskins, in an internal self-evaluation during the offseason, determined the offensive line was the single biggest reason for the 2-6 second-half collapse last season. Many in the organization acknowledged the unit was in need of an overhaul, and has been for some time, but management focused on the defensive line -- the Redskins made tackle Albert Haynesworth the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history and drafted defensive end/strong-side linebacker Brian Orakpo -- and hoped for the best with the offensive line.

Bringing back guard Derrick Dockery to replace left guard Pete Kendall simply wasn't enough if the Redskins really intended to compete for a playoff berth. Right guard Randy Thomas was lost for the season in the second game of the season, second-year guard Chad Rinehart was benched Sunday after only two games as his replacement in favor of Mike Williams and journeyman lineman D'Anthony Batiste replaced Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels, who suffered a neck injury in the first quarter and did not return.

Batiste, whose limted NFL game experience was at guard, was overmatched in pass protection from the outset. Williams, whose last appearance in the regular season occurred in 2005 with the Buffalo Bills, was elevated above Rinehart because the Redskins wanted a bigger body at the position for the running game. Williams definitely qualifies, but his pass protection was no better than anyone else's.

Most NFL teams would experience a drop-off in line play if they lost their starting right guard and left tackle. But the Redskins now have three players starting along their line (Williams, Batiste and ineffective right tackle Stephon Heyer) who might not even make most rosters. We'll find out more about Samuels's health this week, but how bad is Rinehart?

After the Redskins drafted Rinehart as a guard/tackle in the third round of the 2008 draft, line coach Joe Bugel talked about how impressed he was with Rinehart. In the 2008 preseason, the Redskins quickly determined Rinehart was not athletic enough to play tackle. But with no viable options, the Redskins convinced themselves Rinehart could play guard. Well, after two games it became clear to the Redskins that Rinehart, at least at this point, is not physical enough to get it done in the running game. So just to review, Rinehart, in his second season, is no help to the Redskins at tackle or guard.

Releasing Thomas before the season would have been a $9.6 million cap hit, so that wasn't going to happen. Samuels is coming off offseason surgery and might not complete the season because of a knee problem or another injury, but he's their best guy. And Haynesworth is a great player (albeit one in poor condition, according to Sam Huff), and Orakpo could become a dominant pass rusher if they let the kid put his hand down and go get the quarterback. He's simply not a strong-side linebacker.

But the Redskins needed to sign or draft some offensive lineman in the offseason to begin the overhaul process. Their offseason strategy simply didn't make sense under the circumstances. And here's the scary thing for the Redskins: they have two games remaining with the Cowboys, two with the Eagles and one with the Giants. And don't you think Gregg Williams and the Saints' defense are eager to face this line?

From the Bog

Dan Steinberg, sleuth that he is, follows Jay Glazer's comments on Mike Shanahan and the Redskins.

The Monday Chats

At noon today (time change!), Cindy Boren will be live, followed by Mike Wilbon at 1:15 WDT.*

*Wilbon Daylight Time...which means it could be a little closer to 1:30...1:30ish.

By Jason Reid  |  October 12, 2009; 7:10 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Carter Has a Career-Best Day
Next: Daniels Has Torn Right Biceps (Updated)

Comments

No comments have been posted to this entry.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 12, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Oh, so Zorn "pared down" the offensive gameplan, eh?

From ought to naught.

What a joke.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 12, 2009 7:51 AM | Report abuse

There's a reason why no comments have been posted. What can you say? We should have some good picks in the draft this year?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 12, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Leadership. This is a chance for Snyder to demonstrate whether he's really become a competent leader. When you're making decisions that match the fans' level of impatience, something is off. It's possible that you need to correct for decisions that were way off base originally, but the more probably conclusion is that you're being more knee-jerk than necessary.

Certainly, being as impatient as the masses is not a recipe for success. Why? Because fans don't know jack****. Sure, they can watch the press conferences, compile stats, replay the games on their TiVo, have greats seats at the game, but basically they don't know jack**** because they have incomplete context, partial information, and generally tend to not take all variables into account. Besides, leaders need to lead from the front. Often, feedback is necessary to make informed, great choices, but real leaders lead with conviction of their core beliefs and nothing anyone can say will shake that.

Consider Gibbs. While, not having the greatest comeback tour, no one will deny Gibbs' abilities as leader of men. One of the reason he was so good (among a myriad of reasons) is because of his adherence to core principles and his absolute refusal to stray from those principles. Witness the situation with Mark Brunell. Even though everyone (and I mean EVERYONE, maybe even Mrs. Brunell) was calling for his ouster, Gibbs stuck with him until the Redskins were pretty much eliminated from the playoffs. This implies a couple of things. One, Gibbs stuck with one of his core principles: loyalty to a veteran you believe can lead your team to great things. Sure enough, this served him well in the past. Second, it showed that Gibbs was unwilling to compromise on one of his core beliefs on something as trivial as the vagaries of a rabid fan base.

Posted by: hailbg | October 12, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, the ultimate responsibility lies with the head of the organization. If your head is going to be on the chopping block, why would you listen to fans that don't know what they want, don't have any vision, media that is looking to stir things up, and generally those without full knowledge or experience in the situation? Gibbs realized that he had to do things his way as the head and this is similarly, a fork in the crossroads leadership moment for Snyder: do what you think is right and not because of public opinion. Make the right choice and the same fans that are calling for your head will be clamoring to come on the bandwagon with you. Concretely, Zorn may have to go, but if so, it should be for reasons that emanate from core, guiding principles about building a winning team.

Those reasons, and there are many, are not as clear-cut as it would seem. Zorn may be out of his element, but just as equally, perhaps the 3rd season will show marked improvement (just as Gibbs had a tremendous improvement in his second year). Everyone agrees that learning this offense takes time and it's clear that depth on the offensive line and lack of clear playmaking ability on the outside is severely hampering any sort of offensive consistency. Perhaps, with a decent offensive line, a viable second WR, one more year for Zorn as a playcaller, one more year for the team to develop cohesiveness, it all just comes together? Would it be foolish to believe that a couple of the RIGHT upgrades (and I'm looking at you Vinnie "Fred Davis" Cerratto) along with CONTINUITY would be put the team on a different level? It wouldn't be the first time continuity, key upgrades, and loyalty to the program took a team from worst to first and it sure won't be the last. THAT is the decision that Snyder has to deal with. One more year of continuity and some pieces that make the team take off versus rebuilding (yet again). Sometimes, Snyder's been guilty of thinking that a quick fix is all that's necessary. This may not be one of those times.

Having established that Zorn should not be fired based on what the public wants, the main point of analysis becomes on what bases do we consider Zorn's further suitability to be continue as head coach of the Skins (that comes in a following post) ?

Posted by: hailbg | October 12, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

So they new the problem and didn't fix it... They really do want to lose then.

Posted by: Burrasta1 | October 12, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Firing Zorn ultimately won't do anything as long as The Danny and Vinny Cerrato are in charge. It'll be some other poor sap of a coach having his roster and staff forced down his throat by the two most incompentent boobs in the NFL. I can't see any big-time coach voluntarily subjecting himself to Cerrato's "management".

Hopefully the players will rise up above all of this chaos and win a few games. It'd be nice to see our Skins win in spite of everything.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | October 12, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

How does Rhinehart go from being a starter to a game day inactive in one week? That right there smacks of someone not knowing what they have in terms of talent. It would have been nice if they could have shifted Heyer to left tackle, Williams to right tackle and Rhinehart to guard yesterday when Samuels went down. It wouldn't have been great, but it would have been better than what they were stuck with. Didn't they learn anything from that Ravens game last year when they didn't have the right personnel active? Blame the lack of talent on the offensive line on the front office, but blame the game day inactives on the coach. He made a bad situation worse.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 12, 2009 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Here's my question...even if we could sign and/or draft a few quality OL players, how would we pay them? What type of salary cap hit do the Redskins take if (when?) Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels call it a career in 3 months? Good or bad, we are stuck with Haynesworth and Portis and their big cap numbers. With that to consider, what would make ANY decent coach/GM (wishful thinking!) want to take on this train wreck?

Posted by: skipper7 | October 12, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

RedskinHead - the other part too that I can't understand is that running right, where Rhino was, yielded better results than running left. And yet Rhino isn't big enough for the run game? It just speaks to the stupidity of the coaching staff.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | October 12, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Sometimes snyder thinks a quick fix is necassary? For the past 10 years everything has been a quick fix, coaching turnover every 2 or 3 years dosent count as quick? We have an idiot for an owner, a fan with money who like most other "fans" dosent know what he's talking about. He's a Jerry jones wannabe who never played a down of football. If you've never played the game you have no business being involved with it, you have no idea what it's like to go to war with 53 other men, you have no idea what it feels like to break your hand or some fingers, run to the sideline to get them taped be back on the field a couple plays later and completely impose your will and dominate another human being. It's the violent basis of football and if you've never experianced it you have zero room to talk about the game let alone own a team or run it the way snyder does.

Posted by: murphyz | October 12, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Please let's not make the Gibbs 2.0 years better than they were. Gibbs was loyal to veterans to a fault and traded away draft picks like water, not to mention his coddling of Portis. Remember T.J. Duckett, Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archuleta We did not attempt to amass any young talent on offense.

Gibbs 2.0 gets no pass from me!

Posted by: rickyroge | October 12, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Our problems pretty much boil down to this: we have an undrafted player at RT, a third string RG (BMW) who hasn't played in the NFL for 4 years, and a backup (Batiste) at LT. Nothing more to be said. I'm not a Jim Zorn apologist, but that isn't his fault.

Posted by: mattylight | October 12, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

I thought I read somewhere that Rhinehart had a shoulder injury and that is why BMW got the start and Rhino was inactive?

Posted by: Veretax | October 12, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I was going to start this by saying that I do not know where to begin, BUT, actually I do!

Mr. Snyder, I am requesting that you do the right thing and either sell our beloved team to someone that cares about the franchise as much as we (the paying fans!) do, OR hire an experienced GM.

I do not know how much more my heart can take (physically). I cannot find anyone on my beloved team to actually praise or give kudos to! Everyone is playing subpar and it is a result of the dysfunction at the top of the organization. I have been with the Skins for 35 years now, and loved every minute of it (Even our losses)....even our losses to the Cowgirls, I could endure because most of the time we played well, and we played hard, and we played as a team. I do not see that any longer. My loyalty is to the ORGANIZATION, THE TEAM, TO REDSKINS NATION.....not to any one player or group of players. Most of these players on our team today, are clueless as to REDSKIN PRIDE and they make a mockery of our history as one of the original NFL teams. I care nothing about JC, JZ, Moss, Samuels, Synder, Portis, etc, etc, etc....you are all doing a HUGE disservice to the history and the legacy of this franchise and in the eyes of at least this TRUE REDSKIN FAN, you are all frauds. JKC (RIP) is rolling over in his grave, I am quite certain. Part of me thinks that maybe Dan and Vinny are closet Cowgirl fans, and are destroying our team from the inside out. I agree with other posts, that something odd is going on with this team, something that the fans arent seeing on TV. Why arent our WR's being shown on TV downfield? Know that I think about it, there are a few guys that I would like to acknowledge....London Fletcher, Chris Cooley, Chris Horton, and Haynesworth...you guys are bright spots and I appreciate your efforts! I will continue to watch, continue to root for my team and the members of it who actually give a crap about winning and about pride. However, even if we won every game left this season, it still does not negate the fact that Snyder needs to make some serious changes, with the most important being to hire a capable GM and then get the F out of the way.

P.S. - DHall, I was excited about you coming to our organization. But to let a 40 year old QB drag you downfield like that.....what the....??? Good work buddy....good work. Thud!!

Praying for restoration!!

Posted by: httr20081 | October 12, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Our line looks like some crap you'd see in the 4th quarter of the final preseason game. What a joke. We couldn't even run play action because their wasn't enough time to fake a hand off.

Posted by: mack1 | October 12, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

All the blame falls at the feet of Danny and Vinny the O-line should have been a priority this past off season but when you give up draft picks for washed up veterans like (Jason Taylor)and draft ineffective players(Kelly,Thomas&Davis) then what do we expect? the defense played well enough for this team to win but as usual the offense let this team down, stupid play calling(the strech play does not work!!! hello?)why not roll JC away from the pass rush pressure give the opposing defense a different look if i know this why don't the offensive people know this, bottom line this is a stupid coaching staff offensively speaking.

Posted by: dargregmag | October 12, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

All the blame falls at the feet of Danny and Vinny the O-line should have been a priority this past off season but when you give up draft picks for washed up veterans like (Jason Taylor)and draft ineffective players(Kelly,Thomas&Davis) then what do we expect? the defense played well enough for this team to win but as usual the offense let this team down, stupid play calling(the strech play does not work!!! hello?)why not roll JC away from the pass rush pressure give the opposing defense a different look if i know this why don't the offensive people know this, bottom line this is a stupid coaching staff offensively speaking.

Posted by: dargregmag | October 12, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

There's a reason why no comments have been posted. What can you say? We should have some good picks in the draft this year?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 12, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse


Unless Vinny trades them for some magic beans on the way to the scouting combine.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 12, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

VegasJim said if we blow this team up now it will take us years to get back to where we are!!?? HEY VEGAS JIM WE SUCK have you actually watched any games this season?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 12, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Forget firing Zorn mid-season. It's pointless, since we won't be able to get who we want in the middle of the season anyway. I feel like the biggest problem is motivation and desire - maybe Zorn isn't the best motivator, but you lose more by firing Zorn than you potentially gain motivation-wise, and there are better ways to motivate these guys besides. Here's my bright idea, for what it's worth.

Fire Vinny Cerrato. Obviously, this is not a new idea, as people have been praying for just this outcome for some time. But, in the immediate and realistic future, I think there's a big argument to be made for firing Vinny. What better way to put all 53 men on notice than to fire the guy who hired them? The Redskins play like they're fat and happy, like they're not worried about their jobs. Now, some of them have ginormous contracts and will feel safe no matter what, but, with next year being potentially uncapped, even the Portises and Halls will have to wonder about their future with the organization.

So, I say fire Vinny and replace him with a real GM. Maybe Casserly, maybe Holmgren (I remember reading he might be into the idea). Either way, just get a real "fresh set of eyes" in here to evaluate talent as well as intangibles like drive and desire from the ground up. Let the players know that they're not safe, that they actually have to practice hard, play smart, and dominate on the field. Do it for the future, but do it for right now, also. It could save the season.

Posted by: crashinghero | October 12, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Skins Nation. What we need to do is start bunking down for the next 2 to 3 years. I think we have started to see the tip of the iceberg here. Under Gibbs we were built to win now...and well we all know how that is going. Next year we will have a new qb, same old line maybe a few upgrades but you can't get 5 new starters and backups in one off-season, hopefully draft a MLB that can start in a year and a SSL so Orakpo can go back to his natural position.

This will take time. Hopefully the owner can suck up his pride and just admit defeat, similar to what the Kings (NBA) owners had to do. Understand that unlike in business world you can't just throw money and hope something sticks.

Posted by: NFeKPo | October 12, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Silly me.
When ‘Direct TV’ suffered a melt down for about 30 minutes and could not broadcast the game, I was furiously calling their HQs and demanding that they fix the problem.

Little did I know that they were doing me a favor.

Posted by: Veritasamus | October 12, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Since we're not going to force Dan Snyder to leave town, our only hope is that whoever he brings in demands that Dan's friend Vinny Cerrato is out of here, receiving all personal and team responsibilities. Thus, contractually forcing Dan Snyder to be only the owner and non of his clown friends to be involved in the team management.

Dan made his bed and now no one wants to come and work for this once proud organization, this just might be our savior.

Posted by: ibenbassat | October 12, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I disagree...although it's not totally his fault, I think you fire Zorn now...

If you bring in Shanahan, he has time to evaluate talent to see who stays and see who goes...guys will play harder with their jobs on the line.

Shanahan will ask that Cerrato be gone. Snyder has an opportunity to reconcile some with fans by giving the keys to a coach/GM. I am not totally against Cerrato like most, but it's the only way out of this mess.

If Snyder has any type of personal accountablilty, he'll take a hard look at his organization and make a solid move in the coming days.

Posted by: rickyroge | October 12, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Keep Zorn, keep Campbell, and build an offensive line. There's no sense in bringing anyone else onto this shipwreck. It doesn't make sense to draft or trade for a high profile QB when he's just going to eat turf every other down. Campbell is cheap and gives us the cap space we need to build a line. We need to figure out what we're doing with Carlos Rogers. Either keep him or trade him but do it before his contract runs out. If we're not resigning him we might as well get something for him. Forget this season. It's already over. Do not trade any picks in a feeble attempt to save the season. Just start playing all the young guys and see what we've got. Take our top 5 pick and draft Russel Okung and hope to heck that guard from Alabama falls to the second round.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 12, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Snyderatto is a joke!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 12, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Scary thought we have PORTIS signed through 2014... LOL

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 12, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

sic-ricky:

"Gibbs 2.0 gets no pass from me!

Posted by: rickyroge

You don't like going to the playoffs 2/4 years? Man over the dreck this team has thrown out the last 15...Gibbs 2.0 was a fun, competitive oasis in my book that rebuilt some redskins pride....

Also how many times does Shanahan have to turn the job down? He is not coming here midseason, and offseason he is going to dallas....book it.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 12, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I just read on the NFL website that Blache didn't want to speak to the media because of a "health issue". They speculate Danny Smith or Jerry Gray could be the interim head coach. After the stupid special teams play yesterday, and in light of the stubborned nonsensical retention of ARE in the punt returner's role, I would cast my vote for Gray.

As for what to do next year, I would keep the defensive coaches, promoting Jerry Gray to defensive coordinator (if he doesn't take the head coaching job) because Blache will retire, and elevating Olivadotti to linebackers-assistant d-coordinator to make it apparent he is the d-coordinator in waiting. I would gut the offense and special teams and start fresh. Even Bugel must go. It's time to admit he doesn't know how to develop a zone-blocking offensive line for the WCO. Mike Shanahan, or whomever becomes the next head coach, can bring in their own guys on offense and special teams.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 12, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

As for the draft, start the save the whales campaign and draft big old offensive linemen with the first four picks. Then search for a diamond in the rough running back to replace Portis. Let Campbell go, retire Collins, sign a taxi QB, and let Brennan start. If he doesn't pan out, at least you won't be putting a multi-million dollar QB behind a developing offensive line...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 12, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

here is a thought --- maybe, and i'm just spit balling here, that danny knows already that this is a blow-up situation. Maybe he is waiting for the un-capped year to dump all the un-needed crap, fire vinny, fire over priced players and start clean. By hiring zorn, he didn't dump a bunch of money into a coach that he will have to keep paying top dollars for after he fires him.
This could be too much credit, but i think it is plausible.

Posted by: dieyoudogs | October 12, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I would love to see corny zorn now....I know its like cutting off your leg to solve a brain tumor, but I still would enjoy it. Dude is a clown.

I am flabbergasted at how you have w. montgomery and Rhino inactive. The obvious on the fly move would have been to slide Heyer/BMW to LT with the other at RT giving you the chance to slide in a guards who just two weeks ago battled to start. Why do we think players can just magically play at positions they don't play....it cooko for cocco puffs!!!!

And if any mofos come up here defending dt/mk/fd or saying "why don't we throw to them" I am puking.....b/c THEY SUCK!!

Fred Davis doesn't even look like a football player. Suit up any power forward from a ACC squad and line them up they would play better TE....I mean wow.

And DT#11 has to make that catch. That drop was monumental in determining the outcome of the game.

The sad, depressing karmatic reality is that the league mostly sucks this year, and alll the "win ugly, hang around, see what happens for wildcard" posters are actually right....the problem is the Skins are one of the suckiest teams and are ill-positioned to actually take advantage and feast on the scraps. I mean our schedule is/was a wetdream for even a half-decent squad.

Just a giant UGH.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 12, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

PFT is reporting that Phillip Daniels has a torn right triceps?

Anyone else hear that?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 12, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I truly believe that with all our frustration as fans we seem to be focusing most of our anger on Jim Zorn. To destroy this man of integrity and character is somewhat understandable, being Washington, but I feel that most of the blame belongs squarely in the collective laps of the BUFFOONERY BROTHERS! While Jim Zorn must be held accountable for his actions, let's us not forget where the primary cause of this pathetic organization lies!

Posted by: Spanglerg | October 12, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Here's the truly unfortunate thing about the whole situation; We did "fire vinny."

Marty fired him about 15 minutes after taking the job. After going 8-3 with Tony Banks as his quarterback and cleaning up the cap problems (cutting Deon, M. Carrier, Tre Johnson, etc), Snyder fired him because Marty wasn't letting Dan have any fun. Dan and Vinny took the cap space and Spurrier, and the rest is history.

As much as I'm praying daily for a GM, I don't think Snyder would take the hands off the wheel for more than one season. We're in real trouble

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | October 12, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

I am a staunch VT and Skins fan, but was left with complete embarassment over the fact that D. Hall cant tackle, wont tackle and dragged around like a girl by Delhomme...Awful!

Should there be any doubt that Orakpo needs to stay at DE, he is not a LB and that is a failed experiment...We need to pick up an OL, cut Heyer = atrocious and why dont we pick up Derrick Brooks for the remainder of the season or someone that is out there to play LB...move Orakpo to DE, cut Daniels - he is hurt and rotate in the rest, including Jarmon, I like the way the kid plays...I would also bench HALL until he learns that is football and he is not a Matador - Zorn = Going Full Retard!

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 12, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Zorn won't be fired this week.

But if they lose to the Chiefs - a real possibility - he'll be fired.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 12, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I think we will lose to the Chiefs, they gave Dallas a run for their money and I am sure Hall wont be able to tackle Bowe either...

WHY OH WHY IS Randle El still returning punts? I think Zorn, Blache and D. Smith need to go...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 12, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Isn't derrick Brooks a Middle Linebacker? Not a Strong side Line backer?

Posted by: Veretax | October 12, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

I am sure he can play other positions, if not I am also sure there are other LB's out there, so that Orakpo can play DE full time

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 12, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Gibbs 2.0 gets no pass from me!

Posted by: rickyroge | October 12, 2009 8:22 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gibbs 2.0 went to the playoffs twice (Brunnell and Collins) and handed Zorn a playoff team which quickly became the worst team in the NFC. Thanks to the Raiders, not the worst in the NFL.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | October 12, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Gibbs 2.0 did get us to the playoffs twice, but also saw many mental blunders from the coaching staff. The two timeouts consecutively fiasco, causing us to lose the game immediately after the loss of Sean Taylor being just one of them. It did improve the team from where we were at the time, but it did not get us to where I feel we need to be and that is Perennial contenders in the discussion legitimately for the playoffs, division title, and potential conference or league championships.

Posted by: Veretax | October 12, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Shorter Rinehart: He can't play in this league.

He's not going to become more athletic and if he can't play guard there's no place to play him.

Gone with the new coach next year.

Posted by: SteveMG | October 12, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

The stars are alinging for a brutally embarrassing season for Snyder. Of all seasons, he will have to face both Williams and Turner who have plenty of motivation and some scores to settle with the low-class antics of Snyder. Like Shanahan relishing every chance to beat Al Davis and let him know it. It will be very interesting theater.

There could be some high draft picks in the future, but that's a pointless line of discussion since Snyder and Vinny will waste any opportunity to use those to re-build and correctly evaluate talent. Maybe they can choose the players using Bingo.

Posted by: i155133 | October 12, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Carolina's probably the league's biggest mystery except for Tennessee -- the Panthers were a dominant 12-4 in '08, got home field advantage and promptly collapsed in the first round. How do you explain that? They still don't look like they're anywhere near back, but that's a talented club.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 12, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I cannot take this anymore. After 50 plus years as a fan this has got to be the worst team of individuals I have ever seen. DeAngelo Hall, you come from the 757 where I am, I saw you play in high school, you never made a worse attempt at a tackle than you did yesterday. What happened to going for the legs, and putting a shoulder in? All you tried to do was grab his arm, pitiful. You guys all say you want to be "the guy" when the game is on the line, well, you were and you failed miserably. I don't even want to start with the O line and JC, both are pathetic.Nice timeout in the fourth quarter again Jason, could have used that one later. Mr Snyder and Mr Cerrato, you guys have to be the worst custodians of a franchise in the history of the NFL. What exactly have you done except bring in a guy and pay him an extraordinary amount of money and he needs a rest every two series? I have never said this in the 50+ plus I have been watching but I will not be watching anymore, it is way too depressing. I am in the car business and that has been depressing enough for the last 18 months, I don't need any more.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | October 12, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Clearly more agenda driven media bias. Obviously, the Redskins have the most talent in the league, on paper, and are just one player away. And offensive lines are over-rated anyway. Just give me the next star at WR, or DT, or CB baby!

Posted by: 4-12 | October 12, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

F'ing pathetic

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 12, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Benchcampbell, Face it. The only way Campbell will be benched is if they cart him off the field on a stretcher. and with this Oline that is a distinct possibility. Our QB play was not bad yesterday and definately not the reason for the loss. During the offseason the front office tryed to make the 4th ranked defense even better through free agency. The offense was neglected. We were built to win on defense and an offense that doesn't lose the game for you. So far the plan not working. Collins is a career backup and a product of Al Saunders system. Use in case of emergency only.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 12, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Daniel Snyder is willing to pay more for whoever we want or need to play or coach, this is a good thing. But because there is no strong leadership in management that can tell him sometimes tell him "no", it appears that we are headed back down the Steve Spurrier route. The Skins desperatly need a strong "football guy" GM to replace Vinny.

Snyder really needs to consider hiring a tough guy like Bill Cowher to come in here and whip the skins into shape, and most likely someone of his stature will not return without a big paycheck, no problem there, and full control over the roster, well then Snyder needs to show he has learned from past mistakes like with Schottenheimer and yield and let someone come in here who knows what they are doing to run the show. And then Snyder can do what he does best, sign big pay checks to whomever the new GM decides the Skins need to pay.

Posted by: Redskins_in_2010 | October 12, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I played o-line in college so I generally watch the offensive lineman for most of the game. I focused on Heyer for 10-12 plays and, without exception, he failed to do his job on every single play. But that's not the worst part...the worst part is the fact that it often didn't even look like he was playing hard...looked pretty lazy and timid out there. Dockery, from what I see, has been the top lineman this year, followed by Samuels and then Rabach (have been quite UNimpressed with Casey as well)...

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | October 12, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Fellas,

I've been reading the posts and we are all feeling basically the same thing - how has this franchise come to this? There used to be a time when it wasn't "are we going to the playoffs but how far will we go this year?" It's time to recognize the problem, and there is only one problem - the owner.
It's not zorn's fault - he's not a good coach but what was he supposed to say - No thanks Mr. Synder, i'll just be OC?? You can blame Cerrato as he is completely incompetent in his ability to put a team together but still he has a job.....it is the owner and it's time to face the facts that now after 10 years of this mess IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.
Snyder doesn not care about winning; he cares about it being about him. he doesn't want to follow the diagram for a successful team (strong lines, good drafts, young talent backing up starters) - he wants the headlines, he wants ticket sales, he wants T Cruise sniffing his ass.
I am actually enjoying this season, I hope we lose every game and become the Raiders of the East.....this is the only way that Snyder will change but it still won't happen. guys like Snyder don't get it - they would rather keep trying it their way than to adhere to the proven way to do things. None of these big name coaches will come here unless Cerrato is fired and Snyder backs off - does anyone think this will happen? I don't.
we'll hire some college coach, yes man who will do what he's told. Our D will keep us close in most games until it wears down at the end of the year and we'll manage to win 6-7 games and have middling draft position.
The ONLY way this can turn around is if we are epically bad, historicly bad, bad beyond belief. We have to be so bad that people stop coming or start selling off their tickets at a faster rate than they are now. Then and only then when all the NFL is giggling at the Skinz will Snyder be forced into making changes.....problem is that this is happening now and the FO doesn't see it.
We are now the Lions, the Rams, the Raiders - how does my a** taste Snyder?

Posted by: DEskinzfan | October 12, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I am sure he can play other positions, if not I am also sure there are other LB's out there, so that Orakpo can play DE full time

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 12, 2009

At DE Orapko would NOT be able to stop the run at the NFL level. He had problems with this at the college level? He would be set up to fail and miserably if he were in that position full-time. He would end up as a part-time pass rusher on passing downs only. The move to put him at linebacker was one to help take best advantage of his talents. He is indeed rushing the passer, he is getting sacks and at linebacker he can learn to stop the run. He has to learn pass coverage skills. Well, isn't that what you would expect of a highly touted 1st rounder? Eh? Enough of you think that Campbell, who was selected much lower in the 1st and not as highly touted, to walk-on-water, block, and throw for 400 yards every game. Why not expect this from Orapko? It wasn't Blache's idea to draft the guy. That is completely ***ON Snyder***.
Haynesworth at defensive end makes a lot more sense. With Orapko right behind him pushing the pass rush. But to get to that point? YOU ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY MUST STOP THE RUN to force those passing situations all you draft-a-beast on defense types have been clamoring for!?
And look, at least as I expected, the real beneficiary of Haynesworth ... and Orapko was Andre Carter. Look at his sack numbers this year? The guy will probably have his best year career-wise.

Nevertheless that should have drafted offensive lineman, early and often in last year's draft. NOT another "beast". Not a wide receiver to sit on the bench. NOT more linebackers who may or may not play special teams. Not a cornerback who may or may not beat out Tryon? OFFENSIVE LINEMAN to make for not drafting enough of them in the past. And that mistake is completely Dan Snyders and no one else's.

Posted by: periculum | October 12, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"So just to review, Rinehart, in his second season, is no help to the Redskins at tackle or guard."

Someone remind me, why again did we draft him as a Guard/Tackle? Or Orakpo as a OLB?

I honestly cannot believe that I have a full-time job and still know more about football than our team management. You find a player, figure out what their greatest strength is, and you tell them to do what they love and are great at as hard as they can.

Not say "Wow, that's great, but I want you to do something else. Yes, I know you can get eight sacks per game, but I want you to cover this league leading pass catching tight end in space. Good luck."

Posted by: Keiser | October 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

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