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The Strain is Showing in Ashburn

I wonder how much longer things in Ashburn can continue as they have the last few weeks.

There's no other way to put it: The mood at Redskins Park has been downright depressing since the Week 3 loss to the Detroit Lions. Privately, many players have bemoaned the situation, criticizing owner Daniel Snyder for his handling of embattled Coach Jim Zorn. Snyder has been even more demanding of Zorn's time than usual, many who work in the main building have told me, seeking answers about the problems on offense. (I would tend to look at the dearth of talent and depth along the offensive line.) After cornerback Carlos Rogers spoke out the other day, saying management was part of the problem, at least one team leader congratulated him for his candid assessment. Rogers definitely is not alone in being fed up with how the team operates.

Some players, irritated by reporters' questions about Zorn's status, would welcome an announcement from the front office that Zorn is safe for the remainder of the season. (See the story by Rick Maese and Mike Wise.)

Meanwhile, Zorn has trudged along as best he can, players said, but you can see the strain on his face. And it appears the Redskins will be without Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels for the remainder of the season because of a career-threatening neck injury he suffered at the beginning of the 20-17 loss to the Carolina Panthers.

Samuels plans to meet with physicians Tuesday to re-evaluate his injury, but after speaking with league sources the past two days, I expect Samuels to sit out the rest of the season and seriously contemplate retirement. When you start talking about spinal cords (Samuels has played with stenosis, a narrowing of the spine, since high school.) and possible nerve damage, well, Samuels is too smart to risk his future health. No player in that locker room is tougher or more dedicated to his teammates than Samuels; he's proven that time and time again, players said, but it's not as if he has a broken arm or a high-ankle sprain. We're talking about being able to walk.

With Samuels in the lineup, the Redskins ranked 27th in the NFL in scoring, averaging only 14.6 points per game. With ineffective tackle Stephon Heyer taking over for Samuels on the left side and Mike Williams, who started at guard last week, filling Heyer's former spot, the Redskins will leave their backs in to block a lot and use many two-tight-end formations on Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs at FedEx Field in an attempt to protect quarterback Jason Campbell.

Could the Redskins defeat the winless Chiefs? Sure, but if they lose this week and again the following week on Monday night against the Philadelphia Eagles, the Redskins would be 2-5 beginning their bye week. If Snyder plans to make a coaching change during the season, the bye week would seem to be the most logical time. Zorn, then, would be free to move on with his life. Everyone else would be left with the dreary prospect of playing nine more games.

Interactive Gameday

Screen plays, Doug Farrar from Football Outsider says, should work well against this KC defense.

Tom's Take

Thomas "Boz" Boswell points out that the Redskins are still far from the bottom of the NFL.

The View from KC

Adam Teicher of the Kansas City Star has an update on Branden Albert's playing status, reports a Chiefs special-teams signing and has Clinton Portis reflecting on an old Chiefs-Broncos game.

When Clinton Portis played for the Broncos, he rushed for 218 yards and five touchdowns in a 2003 game against the Chiefs. Afterward, he held up a boxing title belt signifying he had defeated the NFL's reigning heavyweight running back, the Chiefs' Priest Holmes.
Portis, now with Washington, said he won't be holding up any belts if his current team beats the Chiefs and Larry Johnson on Sunday. But that's as much a statement about 2-3 Washington as it is the 0-5 Chiefs and Johnson.
"I would love to pull out the belt," said Portis, who is 10th in the league in rushing. "I would love to have a game where I could pull out the belt. But around here that's the furthest idea from my mind. Finding a way to win first is really the concern."

By Jason Reid  |  October 15, 2009; 7:28 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Sources: Redskins Not Interested in Quinn
Next: Redskins' Defense Prepares to Step Up Again

Comments

I think Portis will have a big day against KC.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Gotta, just gotta get a win this weekend...take it one game at a time, and win this one.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Samuels out for the season and possibly contemplating retirement?

Wonderful news...in a related story, Jason Campbell recently took out another life insurance policy....

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

You know, if Zorn is going to go down, he should go down swinging. I'd pull out the stops on the next two games. Throw Alrdige in there and get him in space. Throw a hail Mary pass to Marko Mitchell, Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas and Santana Moss. Run the wildcat with Alridge under center. Run a three back formation with Portis, Betts and Mason. At the end of the day, the team might lose, but at least everyone can say they had some fun watching the game.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Samuels will likely be gone from here on out...So much was hyped and hoped for when his old team mate DD was signed earlier this year..The FO gambled that the chemistry between them would equal an improved OL if the rest could stay healthy.. We released Jansen and Bridges since then too..Nobody thought much of it at the time but we could use them now..This FO pins too much hope on star starters and staying healthy..Until we have depth and a good OL we are in deep doodoo

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

The Dolphins signed running back Kory Sheets off the San Francisco 49ers' practice squad Wednesday. - From the NFL.com website.

If the Redskins were interested in rebuilding the running back corps on the fly, this would have been a guy to take. He's got more going for him than Mason and Alrdige. The front office is out there being worthless again...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Survive this season, make the best of it, make lemonade with the lemons they've been dealt. They can't, they simply cannot ignore the OL this coming offseason. Maybe this is exactly what needed to happen, I'm not saying I'm glad it happened, I'm not saying that JC/Portis deserved this, but this is what it is.....Zorn deserves a shot with at least a decent OL.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"Gotta, just gotta get a win this weekend...take it one game at a time, and win this one."

Trudat.

But the mayor's line about the FO demanding answers from Zorn indicates they think he, and not their choices, is the cause of the team's issues.

And if that's their line of reasoning, it means nothing is going to change with how this team operates.

We'll get a new coach and have the same problems.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Anybody got a list of 2010 FAs?

Looks like we'll be needing FOUR new O-lineman come next year.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Sad news there about Samuels. Class act and great player. Ominous tones for Team Destroyer Barbie (Snyderrato)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 15, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

mattylight

"Samuels out for the season and possibly contemplating retirement...in a related story, Jason Campbell recently took out another life insurance policy..."

Ain't it funny how all of this has worked out?

This season was supposed to be about Jason Campbell maturing into a decent if not dominant starting quarterback.

Now, it's all about if he will be able to take the hits that will come from the 'jailhouse' blitzing he's about to endure.

And how does a guy earn an extension under these circumstances?

If I'm him, I'd take less market money and go elsewhere.

He'd look pretty nice playing in carolina panther black and blue.

'Cuz black and blue will be the only colors he'll carry with him from this redskin season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

moe, love to be fly on the walls for those meetings, I'd just bring film with me, if I was JZ, and just point out the problems, point out Heyer getting steam rolled, point out the lack of running lanes. I mean, how can JZ cause people not to be able to pass block?? It just doesn't make sense....they can't be that narcissistic, and that blind to think that this is all on JZ....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

................. still waiting for Vinny to pick up another backup running back.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | October 15, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

*Begin Fantasy Post*

So should I try to get what I can for Cooley in my 10 team league since he's probably gonna be kept in to help block the rest of the season or should I just drop him outright and pick up Jermichael Finley for this week. Anyone else here have Cooley on their squad.

*End Fantasy Post*

Posted by: Predator48 | October 15, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Samuels out for the season???

*sound of a long sad moan*

Posted by: cmecyclist | October 15, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Don't we all...from PFT:

DeAngelo Hall questions the Redskins' depth, talent
Posted by Mike Florio on October 15, 2009 8:32 AM ET
Redskins cornerback Carlos Rogers recently suggested that blame for the current state of the Redskins "starts with ownership."

Washington cornerback DeAngelo Hall has gotten more specific. And in his effort to push some of the blame away from coach Jim Zorn, Hall has not-so-gracefully nudged it toward the upper reaches of the organization.

"I think a lot of people made the comment, '[Zorn's] not out there playing in the games,'" Hall said Wednesday, according to Jason Reid of the Washington Post. "That's the truth of the matter. If you want to blame someone, look at the film. Look at the guys who are out there trying to play. We haven't been doing a great job, bottom line, we haven't been doing a great job. I think the blame lies with us. I think the blame lies with us. I think we're the ones out there playing every day, practicing, trying to do the right thing, but I don't know if we've got the right personnel here to do it."

Frankly, we think the personnel is just fine. If they would maxmize their talents and play as a team, they wouldn't be 2-3. And the blame in this regard rests with the coach.

Hall specifically complained about the lack of depth. "You can always have proven guys out there backing other guys up that have played in this league, have had starts in this league. That's something we're lacking."

Specifically, Hall pointed to the replacement of injured left tackle Chris Samuels with D'Anthony Batiste as "a big drop-off, that's a big drop-off."

But maybe they wouldn't be lacking in depth if Hall had taken less than $23 million guaranteed in February. That way, the Redskins would have had more cash and cap space available to acquire better personnel at key backup positions.

Then again, maybe the decision to give Hall that huge contract is all the evidence we need to conclude that, when it comes to personnel decisions, the Redskins really don't know what they're doing.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

It sounds to me like Snyder is not interested in an objective assessment of why things aren't working, instead he is mad that Zorn cannot make things work Snyder's way (i.e. the Snyder - Cerrato front office).

Arrogance.

Isn't there some fable about destroying the thing that you love? 'Cause that's what Snyder is doing. He should go read some Aesop, baby.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

He'd look pretty nice playing in carolina panther black and blue.

'Cuz black and blue will be the only colors he'll carry with him from this redskin season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Indeed, indeed...

I'm not sold on him, but there is no way for JC to show what he can do on this team, with this o-line. If I was him I would go somewhere else, compete in camp for a starting job if I had to, and get the hell out of D.C.

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

But the mayor's line about the FO demanding answers from Zorn indicates they think he, and not their choices, is the cause of the team's issues.

And if that's their line of reasoning, it means nothing is going to change with how this team operates.

We'll get a new coach and have the same problems.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Agreeed, numba one.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

"They can't, they simply cannot ignore the OL this coming offseason."

Bean, on a fully-functioning team this would have been the sentiment LAST offseason.

They knew there were major injury concerns....complete joke of a FO.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | October 15, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

"But maybe they wouldn't be lacking in depth if Hall had taken less than $23 million guaranteed in February"

Thats it in a nutshell...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Portis will not have the opportunity for a big day. They're going to be crowding the line and the plays this OC calls bite doody.

I formation in the end zone.

Even if he could run big (less chance of that as the hammer comes down..), he'll rarely see the secondary - mostly he'll go down at the line.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Report: Louisville wants Gruden

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/14/report-louisville-wants-gruden/

Good, please hire him before Snyder does...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

yod at this point in time, this is the bottom, they've bottomed out...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

RIP Captain Lou Albano!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJNrsNe54AE

Prolly wouldn't like wrastlin' weren't 4 him.

...NRBQ roks a little, too... hehe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Bean, how's the morale with the Skins in the toilet and the BoSox getting swept? Cause after my Cardinals got the broom courtesy of the Dodgers, I am straight depressed these days...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

You know....its reports like this one that make you reflect on all the trash talking you did back before the season started when you were full of hope that the d was gonna be dominant and the O would be better...I have so much crap to eat before this season ends

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

"But maybe they wouldn't be lacking in depth if Hall had taken less than $23 million guaranteed in February"

Thats it in a nutshell...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Maybe they wouldn't be lacking in depth if they hadn't given Hall $23 mil guaranteed but I'm putting that on the FO. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't turn down $23 mil if someone offered it.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

ml, the writing was on the wall in both instances, sox/skins, sox didn't have enough hitting, got cold at the end, and the skins, well, we all know the problems there...gotta keep things in perspective, life goes on and stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

i love the skins and wanna support them regardless, but right now, the way it looks the team would be lucky to win another game. whats even sadder is that even if they did get the #1 pick next year, i have all the confidence in the world that they would find a way to screw that up too..

Posted by: cboyhater | October 15, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Yep. Jason Campbell is going to get himself a big FA contract from Carolina next year, because he's wowed so many talent scouts around the NFL with his inability to look off his primary receiver, lack of pocket presence, fumbles, etc.

Or maybe the scouts just like the way he runs, as graceful as a blind epileptic having a heart attack.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

ml, the writing was on the wall in both instances, sox/skins, sox didn't have enough hitting, got cold at the end, and the skins, well, we all know the problems there...gotta keep things in perspective, life goes on and stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Yeah for sure...I just need something to look forward to in the world of sports these days...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Yep. Jason Campbell is going to get himself a big FA contract from Carolina next year, because he's wowed so many talent scouts around the NFL with his inability to look off his primary receiver, lack of pocket presence, fumbles, etc.

Or maybe the scouts just like the way he runs, as graceful as a blind epileptic having a heart attack.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Can we just not have a JC17 debate on the RI today? Or do you have nothing else to talk about?

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Looks like its imperative we grab Williams or Okung at tackle in round 1.

There will be a couple of decent guards in round 2.

Looks like were gonna have to get a C through FA.

Any decent centers available next year?

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

I didn't hear much trash talking. I did hear alot of pie in the sky...much from my own maw.

Hey. It's still possible. I don't believe w/ this coarch, tho. I don't think it has to be a big name, but an actual good staff would be nice. Learning curve be damned.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I just need something to look forward to in the world of sports these days...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 8:58 AM


Look no further! I present to you the Washington Wizards!

Oh yeah...

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Have to say it ... but I warned y'all that this could occur ... with both Samuels and Thomas out (Which seemed a very high percentage bet months ago!) Heyer would be left swinging in the wind.

There is no solution to this problem other than to muzzle Snyder and ban him from Redskins Park for the remainder of the season. Snyder screwed the pooch, Snyder should be accountable, Snyder should stop throwing "yes men" in front of him to block his responsibility. In other words: Dan, its time to grow up dude.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Bean is correct. Florio is an idiot for implying that ANYONE "take less" than $23 million.

Who turns down money?

If anyone is to blame for that figure, it's the FO for offering it, not Hall for accepting it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I don't think it has to be a big name, but an actual good staff would be nice.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 9:02 AM


How about this:

Head Coach- Russ Grimm
OC- Norv Turner
DC- John Fox
ST- Bobby April/Steve Crosby (depending on which is available)

Championship!

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

We need 2 tackles now. If Samuels is done for good, we need to replace him and someone on the right side. Heyer is not the answer. I've heard there is a lot of OL talent coming out this year. We can only hope the FO makes it a priority to draft and sign some new linemen.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I am, however, getting pumped about the World Cup next year...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

I just need something to look forward to in the world of sports these days ...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009

The Washington Natinals. Yeah, I know 103 losses. But they finished sweeping their last 2 series. Dunkey, Zimmerman, Desmond, Morse, and Morgan will provide plenty of hits along with plenty of walks ... just need 1-2 top notch left-handed starters and maybe a catcher and then ... with Storen on the way ... Strasburg a year or so behind, Detwiler and the pitching prospect? With Rizzo at GM ya just never know ... wait-and-see.


Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood - those coaches would never come here, and we still need an O-line for anything to work.

FedorEm - we need to get one of the big two tackles, after that there is a big dropoff.

We could get a guard in the 2nd round... hoping we trade some of our fat for more picks.

Center will have to be a FA pickup...

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm looking forward to the Celts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"...they can't be that narcissistic, and that blind to think that this is all on JZ..."

Yeah, they are that narcissitic.

They assessed the team's needs, realized the offensive line needed elite help, and added an expensive defensive tackle who reminds me of the fat kid no one else wanted on their team.

No one, of course, except us.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Agree with Sonny. Collins is a much better quarterback in every respect, but Zorn dare not play him, lest it be seen as an unequivocal admission of failure for his training methods and "offensive scheme."

Also think that JC would've been benched, traded or released a long time ago if he were a white QB. Racism can go both ways -- and in this case, it's keeping an inept player on the field -- at the expense of someone who is clearly much better.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

If anyone is to blame for that figure, it's the FO for offering it, not Hall for accepting it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 9:05 AM


Exactly.

Nobody outbids themselves quite like the Redskins. I guarantee if they offered him half that either he takes it or hits the open market and finds out nobody else is offering much more. And then comes back and takes it.

To borrow Greg's favorite phrase: lather, rinse, repeat...

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Would Turner take a step down? I'm not too happy w/ his playcallin' that much either. I remember pulling my hair out watching his Skins squad.

I was actually wondering about Fox here as HC - but that would have to be a whole year later. I want new NOW!!! lol.

And I don't think letting Zorn ride out the year is a good thing. At least if you bring someone in now, even temporarily, you let the players know you're ready to make the right change.

....but Cerratto has to go!

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand why we hvae to "wait" until the draft to find help at T for this season.

There are O-linemen currently without teams, O-linemen sitting on other team's practice squads, O-linemen who play in the CFL, AFL, UFL.

Doesn't the scouting department have an obligation to bring some guys in for a look-see? I mean, that is kind of their JOB isn't it?

Maybe they would all turn out to be complete zeros, but what's the harm in having them come in for a tryout?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I'm looking forward to the Celts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm intrigued by them as well -- my Dad is a huge Celtics fan. Do you think Rasheed will put them over the top or, after 35 unnecessary technical fouls, end up holding them back?

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Looks like its imperative we grab Williams or Okung at tackle in round 1.

They definitely need both. If it was possible to trade Campbell (who is gone next year of his own volition) now or very soon for a 1st rounder, or high 2nd I would pull the trigger.

There will be a couple of decent guards in round 2.

Need both.

Looks like were gonna have to get a C through FA.

There will be lots of players interested in quitting the circus Danny boy is running. Trade them for more draft picks and you will get your center.

This should have been done in the 2009 draft after signing Haynesworth and Hall.

Any decent centers available next year?

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 200

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I was excited about the Capitals season, but then there top star showed up at Fed Ex on game day as guests of Coooley, and they haven't won a game since. Thanks, skins!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Then again, maybe the decision to give Hall that huge contract is all the evidence we need to conclude that, when it comes to personnel decisions, the Redskins really don't know what they're doing.


Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Yeah the number 5 deffense in the league is the problem...

Please somebody tell me what's the difference between the way the skins have tried to build their team and the way the steelers have built their team? a good coach and a better qb is all i can see.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure Norv Turner would rather ride across the country on a bicycle without a seat than ever work here again.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

And I don't think letting Zorn ride out the year is a good thing. At least if you bring someone in now, even temporarily, you let the players know you're ready to make the right change.

Uhhh Gibbs / Grilliams / and company to Zorn does not look as wonderful as it did to all the RI types who thought Gibbs was over-the-hill. So, was the over-the-hill gang but they managed to win an awful lot of football games as players and coaches.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

That wasn't Portis' belt, it's Ric Flair's.

Posted by: Parlett316 | October 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Peri - might be tough to grab both tackles. 2 guards in round 2 would be possible, depending on who we trade.

Would love to trade Clinton but folks dont seem to think its possible.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

"I would love to pull out the belt," said Portis, who is 10th in the league in rushing.

I had no idea he was 10th. I wonder what he would do with a better o line. I am just hoping JC knows to be on his bike all day Sunday. It could get real ugly in the passing game.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure Norv Turner would rather ride across the country on a bicycle without a seat than ever work here again.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009

Likely true for every potential coach or GM worth a fiddler's damn. Unless ol' Snidely signs and sticks with "the Marty-ball agreement" ... the one he couldn't tolerate for more than a year.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I'm looking forward to the Celts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse


Here's a question for you.as a fan of the Celtic and Bosox whom both have had looooooong droughts of bad seasons,did it make it that much sweeter when they finaly started to win again?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Are people still btiching about Campbell right now??

Seriously???

JC tis but a grain of sand compared the the colossal bromance boulder that is Snyderatto.

Team sits down and reviews film of '08 season = We need O-Lineman

FO = "Ok...let's see who we can pick...oooooooh, look! A FA everyone says is the most dominant player in the league!! Who cares if he won't help our pathetic offensive line. We have to have him at any cost!"

Team = right back where it was last year

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | October 15, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Would love to trade Clinton but folks dont seem to think its possible.

With his contract? He's the highest guaranteed paid running back in the history of the NFL. Not a chance. However, Soups Campbell and Carlos Rogers are going to be free agents anyway. No guaranteed money.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the years big Sam. Your health is most important brother. Don't any chance it is not worth it.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

I suggest trading Campbell and Rogers now because: Its almost a lock that Campbell and Rogers won't be back next year. Of their own volition unless they are fools.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Please somebody tell me what's the difference between the way the skins have tried to build their team and the way the steelers have built their team? a good coach and a better qb is all i can see.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:16 AM


Easy:

Steelers- build thru the draft, sign mid-level free agents who fit the "Steeler Way", be patient, hire young coaches who stay for 10+ years and evolve into great coaches.

Redskins- build thru free agency, sign big money/big name free agents, use draft picks as trade leverage, hire/fire on a whim, hire retread coaches with name recognition who will be gone in 2 years.

Any other questions?

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

You guys don't want to bash JC17 today? Okay, truce. Let me offer this olive branch. Here' an offensive scheme that I think would work for the Redskins and work for Campbell, and if the team were going to move forward with it, I would recommend keeping Campbell:

-This would involve a ball control offense. Finding the offensive linemen to work in this type of offense is much easier than trying to find the dancing bears required for a zone blocking scheme to support the WCO. Find the big guys who can lean. Historically, these monsters of the midway have come from colleges with a run-first mentality. They don't have to be 5.0 forty runners, but they have to have attitude and the strength to move mountains of steel in the weight room. The Redskins currently have Dock and maybe Williams if he can improve, but the rest of the guys wouldn't make it in this type of offense.

-A bruising running back who maybe is not the fastest guy on the field, but who can lower a shoulder and move the pile. These guys don't last long so the team should look for a guy who maybe skipped his last year of college to get into the NFL. Typically these guys can be found in the lower rounds. Portis in his later years may be more like this. Just pound him between the tackles. Think Ernest Byner: nothing fancy just lower the shoulder and finish the run.

-Tight ends that are glorified offensive linemen. These guys are going to catch the occasional quick out or screen, but they will never be deep receivers. Their jobs are to move the pile. There are a lot of these types of tight ends around and if not satisfied, convert a smallish tackle. Chris Cooley BTW does not fit. He would be good trade bait for some draft picks to beef up the offensive line...

-Wide receivers. This is where you get speed on offense. You're going to run a lot of play action and you need guys who can fake a route to the inside and then race deep. Moss, ARE and CT fit the bill. Kelly would be out and Marko Mitchell on the bubble.

-No fullback. The team runs two, and three tight end sets.

This is an easy offense to draft for and build. It contains a different sort of talent that most talents are not looking for. It can be a boring offense to watch, but immensely exciting when play action goes off without a hitch. This is the type of offense JC was drafted for and he would do okay in. Play action gets separation for your receivers and demands deep balls. You have two receivers normally, and if they aren't open you dish it to a chip blocking tightend or running back. You never hold the ball for very long because it is easy to tell if the defender has bitten on the fake.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I love the "Trade X or Trade Y" talk. Folks no one wants what we have.

A first rounder for Campbell...never. he will be a serviceable back up and maybe starter. No higher than a 3rd rounder.

Portis is UNTRADEABLE! How many teams would giveaway a pick on a Divaish, broken down, slow, OLD running back???

Snyder made a deal with the Devil to buy the team. Now the Devil is getting his due. My mom always said, "Be careful what you wish for..."

Posted by: sanantonioredskin | October 15, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,

you forgot to point out that the big name free agents we sign don't fit or have to be changed to fit into our system. That's a big part of why they often don't work out.

Posted by: REXskins | October 15, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

as a sox fan, you almost became numb to the losing, it was almost a foregone conclusion, growing up, they always lost, and then when 2003 happened, that was about the worst thing sports wise to have to go through. 2004 made it all go away, however, so when the Skins finally get 'right', and I think they will eventually, it will be sweet..

Kind of the same deal with the celtics, growing up a celts fan, it was like a foregone conclusion that they'd be there in the end, but then when Bias died, it was like Bird, Kev, and Chief all got old over night, he was gonna be that guy, that guy who kept them young, when they played the Fakers for the title, it was like the early 80's all over again.

So yeah, sometimes you have to hit bottom, and hopefully this is bottom for the skins....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Snyder has absolutely ruined this team. There is an unwritten rule that management should never cross a certain line of friendship with their employees. Snyder has done that with Clinton Portis. That causes resentment among the other players. Cerrato has also ruined this team. He has wasted so many second and third round picks on players who should be on the practice squad!

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | October 15, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I was thinking about something last night... why did we put Brennan on the PUP list so quickly??

*disclaimer* I am not suggesting he would be any better but correct me if I am wrong couldnt we have put him on IR until like week 9 when the deadline for the PUP list has to be submitted??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Looks like were gonna have to get a C through FA.

Any decent centers available next year?

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Rabach is the least of the offensive line's deficiencies at this point. They need two Tackles and a starting Guard before they even think about upgrading over Rabach.

Samuels may have to retire. Heyer is a backup and has no business starting other than spot duty. And Randy Thomas is too old and injury prone to keep at his salary. Those are the 3 primary needs heading into next season for this team.

Replacing a center would be a luxury.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Steelers- build thru the draft, sign mid-level free agents who fit the "Steeler Way", be patient, hire young coaches who stay for 10+ years and evolve into great coaches.

Redskins- build thru free agency, sign big money/big name free agents, use draft picks as trade leverage, hire/fire on a whim, hire retread coaches with name recognition who will be gone in 2 years.

Any other questions?

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Yes,what retread coaches,and what hire/fire on a whim? 8 years ago? other than Haynesworth what big name freeagent in the last 5-7 years?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

dfbovey - Rabach may be the most efficient of the 4 positions (not LG), but he's still subpar at this point, getting old, and his contract is up. I agree LT RT and RG shoudl be fixed first, but I think C will need to be fixed as well.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Yes,what retread coaches,and what hire/fire on a whim? 8 years ago? other than Haynesworth what big name freeagent in the last 5-7 years?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:39
++++++++

Hall
TJ Duckett
Jason Taylor

Posted by: REXskins | October 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Jerome Mathis

Posted by: REXskins | October 15, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Also think that JC would've been benched, traded or released a long time ago if he were a white QB. Racism can go both ways -- and in this case, it's keeping an inept player on the field -- at the expense of someone who is clearly much better.


This might be the dumbest anti JC comment I have ever read. If someone knows their job is on the line they are going to go with the person they think gives them the best chance to win. That is why Collins is on the bench. Never mind the fact the FO almost brought in Leftwich to replace Collins this offseason. Please go play in traffic.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 15, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I sense a long Monday morning chat between Zorn and Snyder next week.

Posted by: NFeKPo | October 15, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Archuletta
LLoyd

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

dfbovey - Rabach may be the most efficient of the 4 positions (not LG), but he's still subpar at this point, getting old, and his contract is up. I agree LT RT and RG shoudl be fixed first, but I think C will need to be fixed as well.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

____________________

I agree.

I suppose the problem is that they've neglected the line for so long that it will probably take 2-3 years just to acquire the talent they need to fix the issue.

I wouldn't mind resigning Rabach to a short term contract if it means that the other positions get addressed with that in mind. I'd rather have Rabach starting at center if it means Heyer and Mike Williams are on the bench... or Chad Rhinehart for that matter.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,

you forgot to point out that the big name free agents we sign don't fit or have to be changed to fit into our system. That's a big part of why they often don't work out.

Posted by: REXskins | October 15, 2009 9:37 AM


I know...I meant to add that and didn't remember until I already hit 'submit'.

Jumbo, are you new? Marty wasn't a retread? Gibbs? That's two of the 4 coaches Danny's hired and the other two were grossly underqualified for the job.

Hire/fire on a whim--Wouldn't you call firing Norv at 7-6 in the middle of a playoff race or Zorn at 2-3 'on a whim'?

And did you miss the '06 offseason? Archuleta? Carter? How did that work out?

You can debate me on whether the team is completely hopeless going forward but don't debate how I sized up the last 10 years. Just callin' a spade a spade.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

was thinking about something last night... why did we put Brennan on the PUP list so quickly??

*disclaimer* I am not suggesting he would be any better but correct me if I am wrong couldnt we have put him on IR until like week 9 when the deadline for the PUP list has to be submitted??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Hall
TJ Duckett
Jason Taylor

Posted by: REXskins | October 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Comedian in the house!!!!

TJ and JT were panic trades deep into training camp.Hall was a cheap pickup,played well and retained.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I sense a long Monday morning chat between Zorn and Snyder next week.

Posted by: NFeKPo | October 15, 2009 9:47 AM

This is actually good for Zorn. As long as he's talking to Snyder, Snyder can't be scouring the waiver wire for Head Coaches who have just been cut.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 15, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Jumbo step up your Football IQ Bro

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I would tend to look at the dearth of talent and depth along the offensive line
________
Look depth was a problem going into the season.. but even when the starting 5 where playing the Skins were only scoring 9 point against the Rams and losing to the Lions. OL wasn't the major problem early on. Besides this has been an excuse for years, in 2007 that was Campbell excuse when he lost 4 games in a row.. thing is with the same OL Collins won 4 games in a row. Bottomline lets' accept now without Samuels the OL is the biggest problem.. well we already know Campbell can't win when the line was better. So why not try Collins at QB?? Maybe a guy with faster reads and a faster delivery will improve the offense inspite of the OL.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

He should have been benched already. And he will be before this season is out (if he doesn't get injured first).

How he's gone 41 games without being demoted even once is amazing.

Donovan McNabb - a far superior QB and probable HOFer - was benched as recently as last year for Kevin Frigging Kolb.

And when McNabb came back, he played with renewed focus.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/14/AR2009101402816.html

For those of you thinking that we've hit bottom, Boswell's column shows just what the bottom is really like. We may be heading there, but we haven't got there...yet.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Hall was a cheap pickup,played well and retained.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM


Wow...Snyder's even ruining Skins fan's football intelligence--since when is $23 million in guaranteed money "a cheap pickup"?

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Also all this talk about Collins winning. I sugges people go back and look at the games. It was CP that won those games. There is a reason that Collins been a back up QB all this years. Let me say that once again for those who think that Collins is all that. BACK UP QB!! Even when he was in the same system for years he was a back up QB people. Get over Collins.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

fans will vote on personnel and staffing decisions the remainder of the year. A great experiment that will take the spotlight off a hurtful team to watch.

Posted by: rsmskc | October 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

You can debate me on whether the team is completely hopeless going forward but don't debate how I sized up the last 10 years. Just callin' a spade a spade.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse


That's cool,but in my opinion,as a lifer i don't/didn't concider Gibbs a retread.
Marty that was 8 years ago.Adam Archuletta,Brandon lloyd,Andre carter were all mid level free agents..

And no i'm not new,i just rarley post.I instead watch how most of the posters here change with the wind on subjects.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

A first rounder for Campbell...never. he will be a serviceable back up and maybe starter. No higher than a 3rd rounder.

Perhaps not a 1st ... but certainly higher than a 3rd. With injuries teams with legit playoff chances might be willing to part with a 2nd. And that's why trading Campbell and Rogers makes sense now. And anyone else.

Look, there's nothing else that can be done. Snidely Snyder has screwed this team up as badly as he did with Spurrier and at the end of Norv. Might as well get something for players you know you are going to lose. And you never know maybe even Snyder will see the light and admit that he has some sort personality disorder ... or not.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Donovan McNabb - a far superior QB and probable HOFer - was benched as recently as last year for Kevin Frigging Kolb.

I wouldn't call him a HOFer. That's taking a little too far.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Also think that JC would've been benched, traded or released a long time ago if he were a white QB. Racism can go both ways -- and in this case, it's keeping an inept player on the field -- at the expense of someone who is clearly much better.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 15, 2009 9:11 AM

Let's see just how stupid you can get today. You're off to a roaring start.

Posted by: mack1 | October 15, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Andre carter were all mid level free agents...

Carter is having a career year. He probably is eminently tradeable right now.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

HI everyone, top 'o the mornin' to you.

"Portis, who is 10th in the league in rushing."

10th? So, why do so many fans want to release him?

I love how the players stepped up and put management on the hot seat, as much as they could.

Things we tried that haven't worked: firing coaches
Things we tried that have worled: firing Vinny

byaa

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

JM you need to go back and look!!! Collins had the highest QB Rating in the leauge for almost a month!! Collins was solid in those games dont discount his play... What we have here is a bunch of chumps that wont admit that JC just doesnt have it! These are the same people that were saying the season was over when JC went down and guess what happened COLLINS took us to the playoffs!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Jumbo if you want to think we run our team just like the Steelers, only with a worse coach and QB, be my guest. We can argue personnel decisions, coaching hires, etc. all day, but why don't we just look at the records since Danny took over (1999):

Redskins: 78-87, 1 Division title, 2 WC appearances, 0 NFC Championships, 0 Super Bowls.

Steelers: 103-61-1, 5 Division titles, 1 WC appearance, 2 AFC Championships, 2 Super Bowl titles.

End of conversation. Moving on...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Hall was a cheap pickup,played well and retained.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:49 AM


Wow...Snyder's even ruining Skins fan's football intelligence--since when is $23 million in guaranteed money "a cheap pickup"?

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse


lol,He was pickedup for less than a million.was romored to be interest from he raven and patriots for around 20-24 mill,resigned here for 23mill

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Getting thrown to the wolves for a year like this should give Stephon Heyer enough time to become an outstanding back-up tackle for future seasons. A guy that can step in, has been there, and knows what he's doing. Unfortunately, this experience is going to cost us some wins.

Posted by: lordtwang | October 15, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Adam Archuletta,Brandon lloyd,Andre carter were all mid level free agents..


Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 9:57 AM


Ok, time to define a couple of things:

Mid-level free agent--Low profile/low cost FA acquisition signed to be a starter/key reserve

Big money free agent--Big name/big money FA acquisition that is expected to have a big impact and somehow requires a press conference.

Arch and Carter were the latter. Lloyd was a trade pickup and is moot in this definition.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have moved today's practice up to 11:30, with open locker room afterward.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I suppose the problem is that they've neglected the line for so long that it will probably take 2-3 years just to acquire the talent they need to fix the issue.

If they trade for picks now ... and New England seems to be good at acquiring lots of picks way over and above ... they can pretty much draft an OL next year ... continuing the following year supplementally. With enough picks they could also plug some other holes. They will most definitely have holes at QB and CB as well as on the line.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Lloyd cost us a second round pick and he is still on our books this year for 5mil.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Jumbo if you want to think we run our team just like the Steelers, only with a worse coach and QB, be my guest. We can argue personnel decisions, coaching hires, etc. all day, but why don't we just look at the records since Danny took over (1999):

Redskins: 78-87, 1 Division title, 2 WC appearances, 0 NFC Championships, 0 Super Bowls.

Steelers: 103-61-1, 5 Division titles, 1 WC appearance, 2 AFC Championships, 2 Super Bowl titles.

End of conversation. Moving on...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse


What i said was TRYING to build our team like the Steelers have done.

And the top 5 d that we have right now and for the past few years have gone to waste because?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

If someone knows their job is on the line they are going to go with the person they think gives them the best chance to win. That is why Collins is on the bench. Never mind the fact the FO almost brought in Leftwich to replace Collins this offseason. Please go play in traffic.
Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer
_____
That's the key word.. THINK.. yeah Zorn thinks Campbell gives him the best chance to win problem is maybe Zorn is wrong. Gibbs thought Campbell gave him the best chance to win.. until he got hurt and Collins came in and won 4 games in a row. Or as Gibbs said "No one thought that would happen." And let's face it Gibbs is better head coach than Zorn is. What is a fact is the offense stinks with Campbell at QB. Will Collins make the offense better? We'll never KNOW unles he gets a chance. BTW the FO thought about bringing in Leftwich?? you mean the guy who got benched in TB.. well that shows you how much they know.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Chris Samuels is a Hog....sad day in Redskin land. Hail Chris!!

Posted by: Smiley2 | October 15, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Stephon Heyer enough time to become an outstanding back-up tackle for future seasons.

He's a decent swingman between guard and tackle. In other words a backup. Not a starter. Certainly not a starter at left tackle for an entire 16 game season.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Here's what we do:
since we will probably go 6 and 10 we will have a high draft pick and remember the salary cap situation next year, so we drop down in the draft enough to get another second round pick then in the first round we take the best available tackle then the second round we take another tackle and a guard then in the third round we take a center fourth round we take a running back or we could trade next year pick and take another guard in the first round

Posted by: jacquell31 | October 15, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

"Survive this season, make the best of it, make lemonade with the lemons they've been dealt"

------------------------------------
Unfortunately, Greg; those aren't lemons they're using. It's another substance that, frankly, does not make a palatable beverage.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | October 15, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm not going to pretend the Skins and Steelers run their respective teams the same way. Not by a long shot.

However, those "stats" re division titles, playoff appearances, Super Bowls.... They don't take into account who the Steelers play every year, and their mostly (except for Bmore) rotten division.

Let Pittsburgh play in the NFC East for a decade and see if they still win 5 division titles.

I seriously doubt it.

Not saying the Redskins would have fared much better had they played in the AFC North the last decade, either.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Look depth was a problem going into the season.. but even when the starting 5 where playing the Skins were only scoring 9 point against the Rams and losing to the Lions. OL wasn't the major problem early on.

But this line when it included the original starting 5 was the oldest, most infirm in the entire NFL. That's why the offense faltered starting the 2nd half of last season and into this season. Again the evidence is against your argument. Team's with talented lines can and do win with average and even below average starting QB's. The Redskins are one of the better examples of that.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

If Chris Samuels is "done" on the OL then please pass on MY admiration for a job well done for a decade here in Washington.

Thank you Chris...

Bob Schnebly

Posted by: StarLyrara | October 15, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

MEMO FROM THE FRONT OFFICE

To Redskin Players

Gentlemen:

I wouldn't worry as much about who will be coaching you through the remainder of the season as much as I'd worry about who will be paying you for the remainder of the season.

While it may start in the front office, it hasn't exactly been happening on the field either.

If you continue to hitch your wagon to this loser -- while questioning our commitment to winning -- you're going to be gone with him too.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

Love
Dan and Vinny

Posted by: Vic1 | October 15, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Will Collins make the offense better? We'll never KNOW unles he gets a chance.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:09 AM

Truth is, if you have to go to a 37 year-old journeyman to play QB for you you're already done. You keep Campbell in and hope he gets it done. He's got upside. Collins does not.

Plus it'll be moot anyway...Collins wouldn't last 3 quarters behind that crappy O-line. He wouldn't just get hurt, he'd likely die. Campbell at least has the mobility to make something happen.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

What i said was TRYING to build our team like the Steelers have done.

And the top 5 d that we have right now and for the past few years have gone to waste because?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Ughh...really? Let's see...

1. Stability at the top: Steelers have had two head coaches since Snyder took over -- Cowher and Tomlin. Skins have had 5: Turner, Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs, and Zorn.

2. Smart personnel moves, made in line with team's identity and direction: Jerome Bettis, Hines Ward, Big Ben, defensive players like Ryan Clark and their linebacking core, building an offensive line (which gets killed cause of their performance last year, but was great for years under Cowher)...

3. Minimal big splashes in free agency: you list AH as the only big signing since the early Dan Snyder years. Problem is, the Steelers would have never signed him. Ever. Not their style to do that...

Bottom line -- they preach patience and a committment to their vision. We do things on the spur of the moment and have no vision. We've been a run the ball first, grind it out team, Fun n' Gun under Spurrier, a West Coast offense team under Zorn, and always ignore the draft. Is this really that hard to see?

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Also all this talk about Collins winning. I sugges people go back and look at the games. It was CP that won those games. There is a reason that Collins been a back up QB all this years. Let me say that once again for those who think that Collins is all that. BACK UP QB!! Even when he was in the same system for years he was a back up QB people. Get over Collins.
Posted by: jm220
______
Collins had a 106 QB rating and was voted the NFC Offense Player of the Month for December.. NOT CP... TC!!! And so what he has been a backup for a long time.. so was Rich Gannon, then he got a chance to start and took the Raiders to the Super Bowl.. not to mention three trips to the Pro Bowl.. Forget Collins? he's the only hope we have left this year...

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, Greg; those aren't lemons they're using. It's another substance that, frankly, does not make a palatable beverage.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | October 15, 2009

Pull the trigger, makes some trades with teams who need replacements for injured players. Get draft picks. Then promise the fans that a real GM with complete power over personnel decisions will be hired to leverage those picks into a winning team.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Looks like its imperative we grab Williams or Okung at tackle in round 1.

There will be a couple of decent guards in round 2.

Looks like were gonna have to get a C through FA.

Any decent centers available next year?

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

In the first we should take Williams or Okung. Both would be great pass protectors on the left side. They should be franchise left tackles.

In the second their could still be some great tackles. If Brian Bulaga or Ciron Black is there we should take 1 of them.

If Kristofer O'Dowd from USC is still available in the second and he actually enters the draft, I'd take him.


In the 4th we should be able to hopefully get John Jerry or Sergio Render to fill in at guard. I'm not too worried about guard. We can use Dock and BMW for a while but we need 2 tackles and a center. There are a few right takles that should be available in the 4th.

My dream draft would be:

1st. Russel Okung
2nd Kristofer O'Dowd
4th SamYoung/Adam Ulatoski

That would give us 2 new tackles and a new center with Dock and BMW playing guard. In 2011 we can trade down and take some guards in the 2nd/3rd if need be or we can get a RB, MLB, SLB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I am going out on a limb here,

The redskins will defeat the the chiefs this weekend, 33-14. and the new O-line looks great

Posted by: GreatOne1 | October 15, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Forget Collins? he's the only hope we have left this year...

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009

Let us have some of that strange substance you've been drinking and smoking. Collins is immobile and just shy of 40.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Truth is, if you have to go to a 37 year-old journeyman to play QB for you you're already done. You keep Campbell in and hope he gets it done. He's got upside. Collins does not.

--

Truth is, you go with your grandmother if she can help you score some points and win some games. JC has never, ever shown he can do it -- and frankly, he should've been benched, traded or released long ago.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 15, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

bench Campbell, Collins put up those numbers in Saunders offense that he was in for 10+ years, NOT ZORNS.

Did you watch the pre season? Plus Gibbs in December, OK.

Gibbs in December + Saunders offense

It's like you want JC to fail just like Vinny.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Not saying the Redskins would have fared much better had they played in the AFC North the last decade, either.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 10:13 AM


Thank you for adding that. Last year the Skins were 1-3 against the AFC North. The Steelers were a botched punt away from 3-1 against the NFC East. Truth is, right now the Steelers are better equipped to play in the NFC East than we are...

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

My dream draft would be:

You missed the point I have been making for months. YOU HAVE 0 tackles. ZERO!? Yes, Samuels was great but had some serious injury issues as did Thomas. I suggested they draft a left tackle and move him right to extend his career. I took a lot of flack for that. But can you yard-apes now see why you it might have benefited the team and Samuels to move him right?

You need to draft 3 left tackles as high as possible in the draft. Keep in mind that really talented left tackles are more than able to play guard as well as tackle. You let these guys compete for the position perhaps bringing in one veteran as well. Whoever is best goes left, 2nd goes right. The third alternates between tackle and guard.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

. Stability at the top: Steelers have had two head coaches since Snyder took over -- Cowher and Tomlin. Skins have had 5: Turner, Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs, and Zorn.

Do you really blame the man for firing Turner and Marty?

Turner-have you people forgotten the preceeding 8 years?

Marty was fired after going 14-2,what does that say about him? not to mention the fact that he's been fired at every other job he's ever had.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

QB Todd Collins finished his 4 games as the starter with a terrific 106.4 rating with five touchdowns and no interceptions

This is what happened last time Collins STARTED!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

The redskins will defeat the the chiefs this weekend, 33-14. and the new O-line looks great ...

AT LEAST THE STARTING FIVE is YOUNG! The oldest will be Rabach. That at least is a good thing!

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Truth is, if you have to go to a 37 year-old journeyman to play QB for you you're already done. You keep Campbell in and hope he gets it done. He's got upside. Collins does not.
Posted by: brownwood26
_____
Journeyman?? he's been with 3 teams.. Farve 4. 37 year's old? Farve is 40. And Collins body has not taken the pounding.
Yet The Vikes were real happy to bench young mobile T Jackson to play Favre. And Campbell upside? were do you see it?? This is his 5th year in the league and it looks like he's getting worse. And really Collins at QB.. is it possible the Skins offense could be worse???

Plus it'll be moot anyway...Collins wouldn't last 3 quarters behind that crappy O-line. He wouldn't just get hurt, he'd likely die. Campbell at least has the mobility to make something happen.
Posted by: brownwood26
____
Then fine put him in and find out.. You think putting Collins in for just 3 quarters isn't worth the shot. I say a smart savey QB.. who can read defenses and get rid of the ball fast will do a lot better than a guy who can't read defenses and holds the ball to long.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Marty was fired after going 14-2,what does that say about him? not to mention the fact that he's been fired at every other job he's ever had.

Way too much nepotism and cronyism. Hiring siblings and offspring into high positions on the coaching staff. Not something any other HC did or has done.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

'draft 3 left tackles'....bench campbell....smell that...its time to go get some work done.....c-ya..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Another day of this up here. Good grief... of all the dudes on this roster, we gotta lose Chris freakin' Samuels... ugh.

Anybody wants to push Todd Collins and complain about Jason Campbell to people like me who have been pretty much consistently in his corner... you ought to turn your attention to those two numskulls who have been playing Soup ahead of your boy for years now. You know, those two know-nothings Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn, the head coaches... the average RI commenter's little finger has forgotten more about quarterbacks than those two nitwits will ever know.

My faith in Soup has been shaken but not destroyed this season. I hoped he would put it together and use his considerable gifts to become the kind of player who could win games in spite of a lousy O line, mediocre receivers, erratic running game, weak coaching. Soup just hasn't done it. I love him, and I wish him the best, but he'll be playing elsewhere next season, and that's all right with me, even though I shudder to think who Vinny and Danny will bring in to take over.

But Todd Collins as the answer the rest of the way? Todd Collins? Please...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell like I said if Collins is so great he wouldn't have been a back up QB for so many years. Put whatever twist you want on it.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Way too much nepotism and cronyism. Hiring siblings and offspring into high positions on the coaching staff. Not something any other HC did or has done.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse


But people Kill the Redskins for firing him?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I say a smart savey QB.. who can read defenses and get rid of the ball fast will do a lot better than a guy who can't read defenses and holds the ball to long.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009

For 3 quarters, maybe six. Then the rush will really start to get to him. He'll get skittish in the pocket. He'll start tossing interceptions as he did in the playoffs ... under Saunder's offense.

Posted by: periculum | October 15, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

There have been a lot of comments about how Snyder needs to hire a professional GM and step away and let him hire a coach and make personnel decisions. Most of the commenters are quick to add that it won't happen because Snyder is not going to relinquish control. But there is precedent if Snyder ever has a moment of doubt and thinks about alternatives.

The precedent is Art Blank and the Falcons. Like Snyder, Blank was a successful businessman before he took control of the Falcons (Home Depot CEO.) Like Snyder he came in and did a lot of marketing stuff to improve the bottom line. Like Snyder he hired the coaches and meddled in team operations. The Falcons did have some success but everything blew up in his face with the Vick fiasco. And Blank had developed a close personal relationship with Vick. After the Booby Petrino fiasco followed the Vick fiasco Blank realized that his methods weren't working so he stepped back, hired a GM and told him to fix the mess. Which the dude did, in spades. He hired a good HC and hit the jackpot in the draft, picking up a franchise QB in Matt Ryan. And the Falcons were able to cobble together a good OL out of spare parts. Imagine that! The Falcons made the playoffs last year after being woeful the year before and are on their way to being an elite NFL team.

If Snyder doesn't change his ways the economics of the situation will eventually unhorse him. If that were to happen a smart owner could come in and take over the team and things could change for the better. Or the new owner could be the same as the old one.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder has been even more demanding of Zorn's time than usual."

----------

Jeesh.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

QB Todd Collins finished his 4 games as the starter with a terrific 106.4 rating with five touchdowns and no interceptions

This is what happened last time Collins STARTED!

Posted by: BenchCampbell

I'm so tired of hearing people talk about those 4 games. That month was played in a different universe. It was a different team, a younger team, a different coach who the players would have walked through traffic for, and the players were playing out of their mind due to playing for ST. Please please please stop talking about it. Keep in mind he won ZERO playoff games.

Please tell me the benefit of putting Todd in. So MAYBE we go 6-10 instead of 5-11? Drop a couple spots in the draft and neither of them are our QB next year anyway?

We're not going to the playoffs with Todd, and JC will be gone next year anyway.

Quit your complaining and just suffer through the rest of the season like the rest of us.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Marty was fired after going 14-2,what does that say about him? not to mention the fact that he's been fired at every other job he's ever had.


Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:27 AM


You just lost what little credibility you had.

Marty is head and shoulders the best coach this team has seen in the Snyder era, Gibbs 2.0 included. This team hasn't sniffed a 8-3 stretch before or since he was here and he did more with less instead of the other way around. If you can find something wrong with a guy who won 200 games vs. the cornicopia of crap we've seen here in the last 10 years, there's no helping you.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't turn down $23 mil if someone offered it.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009 8:54 AM

I'm not so sure. Let's try. Hey, etrod, I'm offering you $23M. Will you take it?

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Do you really blame the man for firing Turner and Marty?

Turner-have you people forgotten the preceeding 8 years?

Marty was fired after going 14-2,what does that say about him? not to mention the fact that he's been fired at every other job he's ever had.


Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Jumbo,

Snyder hired him in the first place. No, you're right, let's give him a pass...sheesh...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Let us have some of that strange substance you've been drinking and smoking. Collins is immobile and just shy of 40.
Posted by: periculum
____
So what some of the best QB's in the league are immobile.. both Mannings, Brady, Favre, Warner.. and the last two guy are older.. it was only 2 years ago that this old immoblie QB won 4 games in a row... Look a new owner is not going to happen.. 5 new better OL men.. not this year but what we can to is change QB's, we know what we have in Campbell 4-9 his last 13 starts.. what have you got to lose is giving Collins a shot?????

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Oh and Jumbo, what brownwood said, too...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Journeyman?? he's been with 3 teams.. Farve 4. 37 year's old? Farve is 40. And Collins body has not taken the pounding.
Yet The Vikes were real happy to bench young mobile T Jackson to play Favre. And Campbell upside? were do you see it?? This is his 5th year in the league and it looks like he's getting worse. And really Collins at QB.. is it possible the Skins offense could be worse???

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 10:29 AM


Wow, who let the crazies log-in at the funny farm this morning?

If you wanna compare a sinch Hall of Famer to a career backup, be my guest. Just don't fight it when the men in white coats come for you.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

"Portis, who is 10th in the league in rushing. 10th? So, why do so many fans want to release him?"

Because it's time to move on.

Because we haven't won with him, so why have him and his obscene salary issue?

Because he and a breakaway run are as unfamilar as an attractive woman and David Letterman.

Because his longest run is usually to the sideline after a short gain.

Because he's a lead dog who needs to get out of the way.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Journeyman?? he's been with 3 teams.. Farve 4. 37 year's old? Farve is 40. And Collins body has not taken the pounding.
Yet The Vikes were real happy to bench young mobile T Jackson to play Favre. And Campbell upside? were do you see it?? This is his 5th year in the league and it looks like he's getting worse. And really Collins at QB.. is it possible the Skins offense could be worse???

OK it is time for me to leave the blog when somone is comparing Collings to Favre. WOW just wow people need to leave crack alone.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Brown your career backup argument holds no water... Being a backup could be circumstance more then anything

Until Kurt warner got his shot you could have said he was a bag boy! or a bum from the Arena Leauge

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

So some players want the owner to openly endorse Zorn: Why don't these player openly endorse Zorn by winning some fuc$ing games playing at an NFL level like most other teams are doing. Stop directing your energy toward worrying about your coach and focus on your next opponent and play to win the damn game...OPENLY ENDORSE WINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 15, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Gotta, just gotta get a win this weekend...take it one game at a time, and win this one.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:16 AM |

I realize this comment is coming from the mouth of a loyal fan but wouldn't it be far better at this point for the good of the team to hope that they lose the rest of their games, get a good draft ranking and in general stink the joint up so bad that drastic measures lead to a complete overhaul of both team and FO. What good could come of beating KC and Oak and maybe another team or two or three, enough wins to preclude a really good draft rank and a much needed blowup?

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The real issue is not with Zorn but with not having a real GM in charge. What we should be talking about is replacing Vinny Cerrato (if we can't also find a way to make the owner go away).

Posted by: cannontl | October 15, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Haha. Save us Todd Collins you're our only hope..

At BEST Todd Collins gets this team to 8-8. All 8-8 does is move us down in the draft.

And please never compare Collins to Kurt Warner or Farve based on age. Collins is a 38 yr old career back up, there's a reason that happens.

I swear some people would say Ryan Leaf was the answer based on what he did in college.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 15, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Brown your career backup argument holds no water... Being a backup could be circumstance more then anything

Until Kurt warner got his shot you could have said he was a bag boy! or a bum from the Arena Leauge

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

In the history of the NFL there have been thousands of backup QB's. And people on here point to two -- Rich Gannon and Kurt Warner, to prove their point that Collins should play. FACT: after Collins magical run leading the Skins to the playoffs, he had ZERO interest from other teams in free agency. That should tell you something.

Besides the fact that we all know by your screen name that you have an agenda, your argument holds no water.

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

My HEart goes out to Sameuls. Retire if you need to. You did your job here the right way and we appreciate that.

Now, time to see what Heyer can do. I full confidence he can become the next Redskins LT for the next decade.

Book it.

Now, we need to 'pray our guts out' that BMW can hold up for the season on the right side.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

It galls me to no end that our lack of class owner will not give Zorn a vote of confidence and keep putting him through this.

If Snyder continues with the way he usually does things and fires Zorn and gets a new coach for next year with Cerrato still as the GM, it will be years (if ever) before the Redskins are good again (if you consider two out of four years under Gibbs in the playoffs being good).

Posted by: cannontl | October 15, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Brown your career backup argument holds no water... Being a backup could be circumstance more then anything

Until Kurt warner got his shot you could have said he was a bag boy! or a bum from the Arena Leauge

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 15, 2009 10:44 AM


Don't get me started on Warner...that dude is a system QB who lucked his way into two situations with no less than 2 Pro-Bowl WRs at a time. If you remember his last days as a Ram and his brief stop in NY, you remember he was awful. If you put Collins in now, he looks more like THAT Kurt Warner and not the Super Bowl version.

So let's review:

Comparing Collins to Favre--retarded
Comparing Collins to Warner--borderline retarded

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Marty is head and shoulders the best coach this team has seen in the Snyder era, Gibbs 2.0 included. This team hasn't sniffed a 8-3 stretch before or since he was here and he did more with less instead of the other way around. If you can find something wrong with a guy who won 200 games vs. the cornicopia of crap we've seen here in the last 10 years, there's no helping you.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I never said he wasn't the best we've had since the first Gibbs era.

He is just not a guy that most people can get along with.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Anybody wants to push Todd Collins and complain about Jason Campbell to people like me who have been pretty much consistently in his corner... you ought to turn your attention to those two numskulls who have been playing Soup ahead of your boy for years now. You know, those two know-nothings Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn, the head coaches... the average RI commenter's little finger has forgotten more about quarterbacks than those two nitwits will ever know.
---------------------------------

I remember Tom Flick. Do you?

Also, from the day he was drafted until this season, I too have been a proponent of Campbell. No longer.

And I have yet to read one rational reason not to bench him - something nearly every QB has experienced at one time in their careers - for a couple/few games and let someone else have a shot.

If Campbell is any good, he'll handle being benched briefly and return with some fire in his belly. And perhaps he'll be a little wiser as well.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I'm just wondering, what happened to all those delusional sheep who thought Heyer would be fine at RT and should have been starting all along?

Remember? The only reason he wasn't starting was Buges loyalty to Jansen?

Posted by: edvar | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Collins took less sacks than Campbell per game despite being way less mobile, because he knows where to go with the ball and gets rid of it quickly.

Collins doesn't play though because he has no chance of being a long term answer due to his age.

The offensive line is garbage and should be the focus of attention.

But if Campbell is gone who starts next year if all the resources go towards the offensive line?

I hope for Russell Okung in the first round, and if they do go QB in the second round, guys like Jevan Snead and Colt McCoy are falling to the end of the first early second round at the moment.

Whatever they do, I just hope it doesn't include trading up for Sam Bradford.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Isn't Heyer a natural LG anyway? I know he's looked bad but we got no other option. Maybe he learns these next 11 games and becomes legit.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I meant left Tackle.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

FACT: after Collins magical run leading the Skins to the playoffs, he had ZERO interest from other teams in free agency. That should tell you something.

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 10:50 AM |
----------------------------------

It tells me that TC and JC have something in common: Lack of interest from other teams.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder has been even more demanding of Zorn's time than usual, many who work in the main building have told me, seeking answers about the problems on offense."


shouldn't the head coach be spending his limited time preparing the team for the next game?

rather than answer micromanaging questions from the non-football owner who can't understand the answers?

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Heyer is a natural left tackle I suppose, but that doesn't mean he's a good one. I wouldn't put my trust in that guy to anchor an offensive line long term. Everything I've seen from him screams "back-up".

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

To hear that Nate has given up on JC is sobering.

This RI regular who calls Portlandia home has been a steadfast believer in the quarterback from Laurel, Mississippi, whom we drafted at the 25th spot in the 2005 draft for a first, third, and fourth round pick to the Denver Broncos, from day one.

and I've been doggin' JC from day one and Nate has been doggin' me back, and rightfully so.

While we can argue about whether or not JC has "it," the intangible quality to be a leader at this level, we can agree that he has had a multitude of chances, but has yet to win over his critics with his play.

The irony is that I've seen tangible improvement in JC, and he has earned my respect with his stick-to-it-iveness. ( Jim Zen deserves some credit here.)

Best of luck to JC for the rest of the season, and beyond... and no, Todd "Rubberband Arm" Collins in not the answer.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

With O-line the Skins now have, if they manage to be 3-4 by the bye week, it will be a miracle.

Posted by: cannontl | October 15, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

He is just not a guy that most people can get along with.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM |

You're right. Marty is a prick. But his son Brian inherited the old man's FB IQ without the a-hole personality gene.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Whatever they do, I just hope it doesn't include trading up for Sam Bradford.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM

Vinny's TO DO list:

1. Remain silent in response to players' open call to ownership to support the coach.

2. Line up trading partners who want post 1st round picks (or maybe next year's 1st) so Skins can get enough picks to trade up to the #1 spot and get Sam Bradford.

3. Start script of hilarious one liners for next week's more hilariously named "Red Zone" radio show.

4. Confirm To Do list with The Owner.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

It tells me that TC and JC have something in common: Lack of interest from other teams.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 10:56 AM |

The only Skins O guy that another team would take a serious sniff at is Cooley.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Bugel staying positive

By David Elfin on Oct. 14, 2009 into Redskins 360

Offensive line coach Joe Bugel is upbeat despite the loss of six-time Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels to a serious stinger.

"If it was my first year ... I'd probably be in the corner shaking," said offensive line coach Joe Bugel, who's in his 32nd season. "We're playing musical chairs. It's my job to develop the guys. I don't care if you get 'em out of the trash barrel."

They might not have been in a trash barrel, but neither new left tackle Mike Williams nor new right guard Will Montgomery were in the league this time last year.

Bugel said Williams "has made tremendous improvement" since he began practicing in June once he trimmed down from 415 pounds to 370. Williams now weighs 337.

The 69-year-old Bugel said he feels good about Montgomery, the fourth right guard in five weeks, whom he called "a tough dude."

Bugel also said "it's not over until it's over" for Samuels, who was hurt last Sunday against Carolina and whose future is in question at 32.

Bugel said "I have a lot of trust in Stephon [Heyer]," who's moving from right tackle to replace Samuels.

-- David Elfin

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

At first I thought the Vic1 post suggesting reverse racism was reason JC was starting ahead of TC was far and away the dumbest thing posted. It's just stupid on so many levels I figured no one would approach it. But then this unknown upstart sovine08 comes along with his Collins and Favre comparison and it looks like it could be a pretty nice competition for RI's biggest imbecile. Don't get me wrong, Vic1 is an old pro in the stupid department. But sovine08 shows some moxie and his sub-literate writing and punctuation style could help him if the competition tightens up at the end of the day.

Posted by: mack1 | October 15, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have moved today's practice up to 11:30, with open locker room afterward.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Is there some kind of hidden meaning here?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I was all for letting Soup show us something this year. And if we were squeaking by with wins and his numbers were what they were, we'd be singing his praises instead of complaining about his oh so obvious faults.

The thing is, in addition to the spotty QB play (established) and poor FO performance (established) we've got coaches who can't call a game or get a team focused to play.

One of those you can't fix now. The other two you can at least try to.

FIRE JIM ZORN

...that's it... I've become SIGN CHRIS COOLEY...gawd.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

He is just not a guy that most people can get along with.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:53 AM


Was it really Marty though? I don't remember his Cleveland tenure, but here's who he worked for after that:

KC--Carl Peterson
Washington--Dan Snyder
SD--A.J. Smith

Those are 3 of the biggest egos in the present-day NFL. I'm not prepared to say it's all Marty. I'm sure he's not without blame, but let's not make it sound like he's Parcells or something.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4561377

Jurgensen was particularly critical of quarterback Jason Campbell, saying during a pregame show last weekend he would have used backup Tom Collins instead and that, "I think Collins would have won all four of these games."

Not the kind of guy to say I told yall so, but a few weeks ago everyone laughed at me when I said the exact same thing...

Posted by: prescrunk | October 15, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder has been even more demanding of Zorn's time than usual, many who work in the main building have told me, seeking answers about the problems on offense."


shouldn't the head coach be spending his limited time preparing the team for the next game?

rather than answer micromanaging questions from the non-football owner who can't understand the answers?

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 10:57 AM

I think response to these rhetorical questions (and more!) was implied by text you quoted.

Also, Samuels out means trading someone (a high quality someone) to find a replacement.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have moved today's practice up to 11:30, with open locker room afterward.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Is there some kind of hidden meaning here?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 11:07 A

It's a rainy, chilly day in the DMV.

Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I think Portis is going to run for 96 yards...still looking for that 100-yard game!!!
can someone say trade?

Posted by: dpena75 | October 15, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Collins is not as bad Nate would lead us to believe, but I wouldn't go as far as Sonny and say that he would have won "all four of these games."

Todd Collins makes quicker decisions than JC in the pocket. He can read defenses better, but he's also been shown to pass the ball and make it look like a wounded duck fluttering through the air.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

For all of those on RI who would like to see Collins play instead of Campbell, just be patient. Campbell won't last a whole season behind this offensive line and then we'll see what Collins can do... then we'll see what Collins' backup can do, and then his backup, and then his backup because all I see in my crystal football is a lot of injuries for he who stands behind the center.

BTW, Campbell still sucks. That doesn't mean I want to see him made into a human pinata...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I think CP isn't going to have another 100-yard game...looking more like 96 yards.
Can someone say trade?

GO SKINS!!!

Posted by: dpena75 | October 15, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Let's be realistic about the Redskins O-Line. Both Samuels and Thomas came into the season coming off major surgeries and the front office doubted they would last the season. The rest of the starters and reserves (exception of Dockery) are mediocre at best and wouldn't be on the roster of any decent teams. The fact that Snyderrato ignored the team's most glaring weakness in the offseason and had no veterans to play in reserve like prior seasons (like a Pete Kendall or Jason Fabini), the team's offense was doomed to failure. Blame JC for some poor decision making and Coach Zorn for questionable play calling, but the Redskins will have zero offense until they build a good offensive line with depth.

Look at the top teams in the NFC East like NY and Philly (and even Dallas). They all have top tier, relatively young offensive lines that have been built through the draft and trades. The Redskins have drafted one starting O-Lineman since 2000 (Dockery) and patched together a line by signing FA's from other teams like Thomas, Rabach, Kendall, etc. That's not the way to build an O-Line that will remain together for a long period of time.

Posted by: wizfan89 | October 15, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

A Redskins game in Oakland, you say?

I would love to make the trip, but the reality of my circumstances preclude this from being anything more than wishful thinking.

Sounds fun, though.

Raiders West meet Raiders East.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Some things on my mind

1)How many years do you all think Snyder will give Gruden to turn this mutha around?

2)Does anyone know how Gruden builds his teams? Does he look to get the QB first or OL? Does he build by skilled players or the big uglies?

Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I will be watching the game on TV this weekend and look forward to hearing a clearly audible "Sell the team" chant for at least 3/4 of the game.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Does anybody else just want to fast forward to the draft next April?

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

But then this unknown upstart sovine08 comes along with his Collins and Favre comparison and it looks like it could be a pretty nice competition for RI's biggest imbecile.
Posted by: mack1
_____
Not saying Collins is as good as Favre.. just pointing out the age and immobile argument against starting Collins is IDIOTIC if older and less mobile QB's are doing just fine in this league.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Not the kind of guy to say I told yall so, but a few weeks ago everyone laughed at me when I said the exact same thing...

Posted by: prescrunk | October 15, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Jurgenson also said that Collins would be better since he already knew the offense. This implies that he thinks we are using Al Saunders offense. This is why we think you and Jurgenson don't know what you're talking about. Todd hasn't even looked good against backups yet with this offense. What makes you think he'd be good against starters?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Keep your eye on the prize sovine08.

Posted by: mack1 | October 15, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Here's a question no one has answered: who plays at tackle if Mike Williams or Heyer gets a boo-boo? If the thought of Williams and Heyer starting drowns your heart in fear, then how does their backup playing make you feel? Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

Actually, it is not a dumb question because BMW spent a lot of time injured in pre-season, so we know he is injury prone, and Heyer has never started a full season. I guess we will see more of human revolving door Batiste, right?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

If Gruden were coaching, Collins would have been put in by the second half of the Lions game.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

For everyone foaming at the mouth saying putting Collins in would be stupid:
Wouldn’t you want to see if he could come in and put some points up? It might just tell us whether it’s Zorn’s system that sucks, or if it’s Campbell. I don’t understand why so many people are against at least seeing what Collins would do. I’m not saying put him in for the rest of the season, let’s just see if the offense is any good with him rather than JC17. But like someone said, JC17 probably won’t last too long behind this line, so we may get to see Collins anyway.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I will also accept 20,000 clearly visible empty seats.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have moved today's practice up to 11:30, with open locker room afterward.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Is there some kind of hidden meaning here?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 11:07 A

It's a rainy, chilly day in the DMV.

Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Oh, of course. I'd forgotten about that.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

some fans and media members think that 99 yards is significantly less than 100, apparently.

Just ridiculous.

Portis had 98 yards in a game that he had a 12 yard run called back for holding on Kelly.

And last year in a game that he did not eclipse 100 yards rushing he had well over 100 in combined yards.

are these people that shallow? Is 99 horrible and 100 outstanding?

Portis hasn't broken 100 yards rushing and he's 10th in rushing.

26 is aheadof jones-drew, turner, barber, the jones brothers, gore, slaton, d williams, etc.

player haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

At this point you almost have to scour the other practice squads and take a chance on some of them. Or dial up Levi and Runyan. Or else just do what they did in Waterboy, punt and let your D try to win games.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

First of all, JurgenSEN didn't imply Al Saunders offense was what Collins "knew." Collins has been around Zorn's O for the same amount of time as JC, so he "knows" the offense.

Secondly, at least learn to spell Sonny's name before you criticize him.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Stability at the top: Steelers have had two head coaches since Snyder took over -- Cowher and Tomlin. Skins have had 5: Turner, Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs, and Zorn.

Do you really blame the man for firing Turner and Marty?

Turner-have you people forgotten the preceeding 8 years?

Marty was fired after going 14-2,what does that say about him? not to mention the fact that he's been fired at every other job he's ever had.


Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Actually I do blame Snider for firing Norv. I remember 1999 when Snider bought the team. Norv finally had a QB who could run his system in Brad Johnson and we were a botched field goal snap from playing in the NFC Championship game and the team was YOUNG. Not many people remember we were the #2 offense in the league that year behind "The Greatest Show on Turf". Enter Dan Freaking Snider and his meddling pressuring bringing in Jeff George and pressuring Norv to start him over Brad and the team chemistry went completely away.

As for Marty, he has done nothing but win everwhere he has been and had us on the right track when Danny "The Dip$-it" Snider fired him for that idiot Spurrier.

Speaking of Spurrier, remember how much Ramsey got pounded in Spurriers last season? Well that might look like a good protection scheme after this season is over with this line.

Posted by: rjohnson66 | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Mack -- Yeah, it is rather stupid to bring up the (admittedly) remote possibility that reverse discrimiation racism is the reason why JC has yet to be benched, traded or released by the Redskins -- despite his obvious inability to score points or win games. Hell, it's not like the "Redskins" don't already have a dubious (and continuing) history of suspect behavior in this whole area of race relations or anything.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Where was it rumored that Gruden was tops on ol Danny Boy's list? I thought Shanny was the front runner.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

If Gruden were coaching, Collins would have been put in by the second half of the Lions game.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 11:24 AM

We'll find out what he thinks about JC in a couple of weeks.

Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

After thinking about the whole Mike Sellers "You Reporters" thing a bit more...Really? Really, Mike?
The "most difficult" thing about this season has been reporters? Losing to the 0-for-19 Lions isn't at the top? Losing to the winless Panthers isn't at the top? Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against the woebegone Rams and Bucs isn't at the top?
"You Reporters" have been the hardest thing about this season. UFB.

Rant from atop high horse over.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 15, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Chris Cooley anyone?

Not to target Cooley 10+ times a game is FAIL.

Posted by: ennepe68 | October 15, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

If Gruden were coaching, Collins would have been put in by the second half of the Lions game.


That is probably one of the reasons he is unemployed right now. He won his Super Bowl on Dungy's coattails and has done nothing since. One of the most overrated coaches out there. Knowing how idiotic our FO is, expect him to be in Redskins Park next year.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 15, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

For everyone foaming at the mouth saying putting Collins in would be stupid:
Wouldn’t you want to see if he could come in and put some points up? It might just tell us whether it’s Zorn’s system that sucks, or if it’s Campbell. I don’t understand why so many people are against at least seeing what Collins would do. I’m not saying put him in for the rest of the season, let’s just see if the offense is any good with him rather than JC17. But like someone said, JC17 probably won’t last too long behind this line, so we may get to see Collins anyway.


Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2009 11:27 AM |
---------------------------------

Exactly.

Let's see if Collins can break the 20 point barrier for the first time this season and take advantage of having the league's 4th best defense and win some games.

It's funny. There are people on here who are just as boneheaded as the Danny and Vinny inasmuch as they take the same approach to the Redskins issues: Just keep doing the same thing over and over (in this case, playing Campbell) and hope that it gets better by itself.

Ironic, eh?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I think Portis is going to run for 96 yards...still looking for that 100-yard game!!!
can someone say trade?

Posted by: dpena75 | October 15, 2009 11:15 AM |

Now that you mention it, there was a rumor floating around that Ozzie Newsome, the wise old head Ravens GM, was making repeated calls to Cerrato to see if he was interested in swaping Portis for Ray Rice.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

At this point you almost have to scour the other practice squads and take a chance on some of them. Or dial up Levi and Runyan. Or else just do what they did in Waterboy, punt and let your D try to win games.
Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM

I like the Hollywood strategies too. I say we bring up some goons from the iron league who play dirty and start a bunch of fights just to get the other teams “off their game”. I would pay money to see some of the dline taking baseball bats to Redskin-1 to “make it look mean”….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

What makes you think he'd be good against starters?
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 11:22 AM

dont want to take my word for it? fine. but to say that a hall-of-famer doesnt know what he is talking about is absurd. In which games has Tom Collins "not even looked good" this year? See, this is why we think you dont know what YOU are talking about. my point was that Collins has bailed us out before. He has been in a lot of offenses over his 15 season career and he can do it again. Campbell is the one who hasnt looked good.

Posted by: prescrunk | October 15, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

"The "most difficult" thing about this season has been reporters? Losing to the 0-for-19 Lions isn't at the top? Losing to the winless Panthers isn't at the top? Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against the woebegone Rams and Bucs isn't at the top?"

Well, all those things are just humiliating. Putting up with reporters -- well, that's downright pathological.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 15, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Haha. Save us Todd Collins you're our only hope.. At BEST Todd Collins gets this team to 8-8. All 8-8 does is move us down in the draft.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
____
So now your against putting Collins in because he might WIN some games??? Heck if 5 games in all you want to do is lose than of course keep Campbell in.. in fact lets' not even try to win 2-14 should get the Skins a fine draft pick.

And please never compare Collins to Kurt Warner or Farve based on age. Collins is a 38 yr old career back up, there's a reason that happens.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
_______
In KC it was because Trent Green a pretty good QB never got hurt. But forget Warner or Farve... Rich Gannon was a career backup.. he was on the bench for YEARS before he got a shot. Sometimes it happens, but when he did get his shot he was much better than anyone expected. Again not saying for sure Collins will get the team in the playoffs.. your right there are more problems than just QB... but by now even Campbell supporters are saying he can't win. Other teams without much of a playoff chance have made QB changes.. Cleveland, Tampa.. why not the Skins too???

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

well if newsome wants to trade RIce for Portis that is all the ammo I need to prove Portis is great.

If Collins is better thatn Campbell why didn't he show it in pre season?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

player haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM

----------

blogger hater

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

OG Randy Thomas went down with injury and the team signed a running back (Alridge).

Team released punter who was with the team for only one week, and, knowing OT Samuels would be out for the following week, the team re-signed a defensive lineman (Wynn).

Maybe Vinny is dyslexic?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, it is rather stupid to bring up the (admittedly) remote possibility that reverse discrimiation racism is the reason why JC has yet to be benched, traded or released by the Redskins -- despite his obvious inability to score points or win games. Hell, it's not like the "Redskins" don't already have a dubious (and continuing) history of suspect behavior in this whole area of race relations or anything.

Posted by: Vic1


Considering everyone in charge is white it is pretty stupid to bring this up.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 15, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"Now that you mention it, there was a rumor floating around that Ozzie Newsome, the wise old head Ravens GM, was making repeated calls to Cerrato to see if he was interested in swaping Portis for Ray Rice"

I'm calling bullcrap....complete, and utter bullcrap on your part....don't make shti up just to make yourself look better....stupid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

player haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM

----------

blogger hater

Posted by: Chia_Pet

Hater hater.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Does anybody else on here besides me think that hiring Gruden would be the dumber than hiring Zorn.

Lets look at the tale of the tape, Gruden is a known QB killer, and the majority of his players hate him. What has he done since winning the SB with Tony Dungy's team. He went through at least 10 QB's in TB while he was there, Brad johnson hates him, Jeff Garcia hates him, Jake Plummer wouldnt even come out of retirement to play for the guy. Keyshan Johnson hates the guy. I mean come on Gruden would be worse than Zorn.

The person that we need to go after is Tony Dungy and only Tony Dungy. He wins wherever he goes and the players all love him. He has the type of personality that can make football decisions and control Dan Snyder.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | October 15, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

This team always to the level of the other team, every game is close, whether we pay the worst team or the best ones. Frustrating, no Killer Instinct. This team was built to win on defense and when the defense plays badly for a stretch in any game, we will lose. Primadona 2nd year receivers think that they are good but disappear during games, run the wrong depth on routes and generally suck. As usual, QB gets the blame when he throws a completion and comes up half a yard short, or hands off and runner gets stuffed while the lead blocker is directing traffic. Biggest complaint that I have with Campbell is leadership, he does what he's asked to do during the games. He should be in the face of the underperforming cast surrounding him.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 15, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I'd do Portis for Rice in a second.. and maybe hope to get a 5th rounder or so in there too.

You can't put a price tag on youth in this league.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

It's funny. There are people on here who are just as boneheaded as the Danny and Vinny inasmuch as they take the same approach to the Redskins issues: Just keep doing the same thing over and over (in this case, playing Campbell) and hope that it gets better by itself.
Ironic, eh?
Posted by: MrRedskin21
____
I'd call it INSANE or as Einstein once said.. "the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results." In this case it's these guys who think keep playing Campbell and the Skins will get better.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

GreatOne,

I think Dungy is only person who can change things around here. Unfortunately for us he says he has no interest in football right now.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 15, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Well I don't love hate, that's for sure.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Nope greatone, I agree with you. Which is the reason they will go after him. I think he would be dumb enough to let Dan keep Vinny around.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

start Tom Collins!!!!

Posted by: prescrunk | October 15, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

The Ravens would never do that trade. It's stupid. Rice is their fast change of pace back. They don't need 2 Miami divas on 1 team. The Ravens are too smart for that.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I hate to hate.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4561377

The Skins dysfunctionality is making headlines at the 4-letter network.

But I must say, I'm going to lay off of Zorn from now on. He's a dead coach walking, and there's no point in piling on.

I do hope the pressure stays on the FO. Frankly, it's gonna take a full-court press and then some for Danny to decide to axe Vinny, but that's what we need.

Posted by: p1funk | October 15, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

You can't be serious that Synder is demanding more of Zorn's time.

If a ship is starting to sink you don't start drilling holes in the deck as the solution! Sheesh!

Posted by: t_seitz_brown | October 15, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I just want to thank Jason Reid for giving us a glimpse into the hidden emotional life of Redskins Park. I guess we were all bored with talking about football and needed something now that Desperate Housewives has been cancelled. Of course we all realize that unless all the hissy fits have been tossed and the booboo lips patched, there's simply no way that a team of grown men making millions of dollars could overcome their emotional wounds to the point where they could go out on the field on Sunday and kick the shti out of the Kansas City Chiefs -- which is, if I remember correctly, what football is all about.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 15, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

My hope for pabrian is that he finds a more productive means to channel his disgust and loathing.

Fans of the Washington Redskins don't need it, and the hamsters that blog up here, because they LOVE the Redskins don't need it either.

Blame the media, but they're just doing their job., so I dunno.

Carry on, I suppose.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Chia, I didn't mean to convey that I'm giving up on Jason Campbell, though as I said he hasn't lived up to my expectations this season, when I'd expected (not just hoped for, expected) him to turn the corner.

What I meant to convey is that I think he's going bye-bye regardless... Snyder and Cerrato clearly wanted anyone Cutler/Sanchez/whoever else last offseason, and this offseason they will make it happen.

On that other topic, nobody in his right mind would want to go see Redskins-Raiders, so thank goodness I'm not in my right mind. Part of me thinks it could be a perfect storm of bad owners...

I just hope we emerge with a photo of Dan Snyder shaking hands with Al Davis, as the torch is passed from historically bad owner 1.0 to historically bad owner 2.0, Emporer Palpatine bestowing his blessing on his protégé, the impetuous, hotheaded young Vader. That would make it worthwhile.

Also, a Redskin win would be nice, even if it's just the sad, gray icing on a sh!t sandwich of a season. But I ain't gonna get greedy.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

carry on my wayward son, there will be peace when you are done.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

@NateinthePDX

You just kind of made me wish that Vader was really short, and everyone brought that up as maybe a part of his 'issue'.

hehe

Posted by: gconrads | October 15, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

First of all, JurgenSEN didn't imply Al Saunders offense was what Collins "knew." Collins has been around Zorn's O for the same amount of time as JC, so he "knows" the offense.

Secondly, at least learn to spell Sonny's name before you criticize him.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

If they had the same offense for the same amount of time then Collins doesn't know it better. They know it the same.

P.S. Getting mad about spelling errors in an online forum is stupid.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

In this case it's these guys who think keep playing Campbell and the Skins will get better.


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 11:46 AM


You gotta lay off the Collins stuff man...if we were still playing in Saunder's system I'd be with you 100%. But it's not. So Collins has no advantage over Campbell whatsoever except he hasn't been getting killed behind one of the worst O-lines in football. You could play Peyton f-ing Manning right now and still not top 8 wins because that line is the football equivolent of a firing squad.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Palpatine and Vader.

Wow, over my head.

Thanks for the homework assignment though.

Next stop, wikipedia...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Awful news on Samuels - he's been great for the Redskins.

Do NFL rules allow Campbell to post body guards in the backfield?

Shouldn't Carlos Rogers be more concerned management might notice his ball repellent hands?

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | October 15, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Star Wars?

I never saw that movie.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

brownwood,

People like sovine08 and MrRedskins21 aren't gonna shut up about Todd Collins until the day he plays, or dies...whichever comes first. Here's hoping he does get some time this season, if only so that we can all put this argument to sleep, one way or another, once and for all...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

FIRE CERRATO!
FIRE CERRATO!
FIRE CERRATO!
FIRE CERRATO!
FIRE CERRATO!

Posted by: noseman4681 | October 15, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

If they had the same offense for the same amount of time then Collins doesn't know it better. They know it the same.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

_____________________

That's assuming that both players have the ability to learn and retain information at the same rate.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

*Disclaimer*

I forgot to mention that, in the event Collins does come in and play this season, and if he happens to play poorly, I am already expecting this excuse from all the TC backers:

"Well, what did you expect behind such a pathetic offensive line?"

HA!

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"He is an avuncular middle-aged politician of the Republic who slowly rises to the rank of Emperor through deception and treachery.

and by spending $800 million to lay claim to the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

gconrads, I guess he cuts more of a Dark Helmet/Rick Moranis figure, eh?

Say it ain't so, Chia! You've never seen Star Wars? I... I... I just don't know what to say to that. I feel like I don't even know you any more, man. You go out and have beers with a little clay animal and you think you know the guy, and then to find out this... it's something like betrayal, man, I'll be honest.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure you're right, Matty. To me it's just laughable to think that a 38 year-old statue is gonna fix this when it's the f-ing O-line that's the real problem.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

My bad.

HTTR and HTTB

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

A Redskins game in Oakland, you say?

I would love to make the trip, but the reality of my circumstances preclude this from being anything more than wishful thinking.

Sounds fun, though.

Raiders West meet Raiders East.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Snyder and Davis can stand at midfield while the game is going on and exchange stories on how to screw up an organization.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 15, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Not sure why people hate on Gruden. He had pretty good success out in Oakland before Tampa. So if he rode Dungy's coat tails to a Super Bowl win then Bill Callahan did the same thing in Oakland for a Super Bowl appearance. The guy is a young and experienced coach who has taking a number of teams to the playoffs. He was 9-7 in the year he was fired. 9-7 looks pretty damn good right about now.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | October 15, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

brownwood,
People like sovine08 and MrRedskins21 aren't gonna shut up about Todd Collins until the day he plays, or dies...whichever comes first. Here's hoping he does get some time this season, if only so that we can all put this argument to sleep, one way or another, once and for all...
Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 12:01 PM

That’s all we are saying….let’s see what he can do…none of the folks calling to see Collins are saying “cut Campbell, name Collins the starter, redo his contract with an extension, and forget about a potential new QB next year”. If he plays well, keep playing him, and it just might tell us that Zorns system works, and the offensive woes actually do stem from Campbell. If he sucks, well, put Campbell back in, try to fix the o-line, and maybe Zorns system and coaching style need to get the heave ho (as always, getting a new FO is implied).

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

From the Times:

It's cold and nasty in Ashburn, but the Redskins are on the field.It's cold and nasty in Ashburn, but the Redskins are on the field.

It seemed that everyone except offensive tackle Chris Samuels (neck) was present and accounted for with the possible exception of backup linebacker Chris Wilson.

It was hard to see which players were limited because we were escorted off the sideline before team drills began.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure you're right, Matty. To me it's just laughable to think that a 38 year-old statue is gonna fix this when it's the f-ing O-line that's the real problem.

Posted by: brownwood26 | October 15, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

He wouldn't solve all the problems, but a QB with no awareness, no ability to read defenses prior to the snap and who also holds on to the ball too long... doesn't exactly help the weakened offensive line either.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Keep your eye on the prize sovine08.

Posted by: mack1
_____
It is.. WINNING!!! what concerns me are the guys who prize is keeping Campbell as the starter no matter how many games the Skins lose

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

P.S. Getting mad about spelling errors in an online forum is stupid.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 11:57 AM |
------------------------------

I don't get mad at spelling errors.

You can misspell "cat" if you like. I don't care.

JurgenSEN is the man's NAME. He's an institution in Redskins Country.

You should KNOW how he spells it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

It's funny. There are people on here who are just as boneheaded as the Danny and Vinny inasmuch as they take the same approach to the Redskins issues: Just keep doing the same thing over and over (in this case, playing Campbell) and hope that it gets better by itself.
Ironic, eh?
Posted by: MrRedskin21
____
I'd call it INSANE or as Einstein once said.. "the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results." In this case it's these guys who think keep playing Campbell and the Skins will get better.


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

What's Einstein think about drafting first round QBs and changing coaches every 2 years for the last 17 years? Face it, the QB and the coaches aren't the problem. It's the neglecting of certain positions because we blew the draft picks on stupid trades and we had to let young talent go because we spend too much in free agency. That's why this team will never be good. For every Albert Haynesworth we sign we are forced to start a Stephon Heyer. There is a salary cap in this league. We need to adjust our team building strategy to take that into consideration. We neglected the offensive line for about a decade. That's what's killing this team. It doesnt matter who the QB, coach, WR, or TE is.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I just spilled my bottle of Pepsi and I want to know WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS?

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Once and for all stop the Todd Collins nonsense. In his 14 year career he's been a full-time starter only ONCE in his career, 1997 Buffalo Bills. Collins was 26 at the time.

Bills were 6-10, Collins records was 5-8. Their offense was ranked 29th out of 30 teams at the time. He was sacked 39 times in 13 games, average of 3 per game and had a passer rating of 69.5. He had Moulds, Reed and Quinn Early to throw to, plus Thomas and Antoine Smith in the backfield. He sucks as a starter, a career backup for a reason.

Behind this line and being 11 years older, he'd get killed and I don't think the Skins "weapons" are any better than what the Bills had.

Please stop the insanity

P

Posted by: DaleHunter | October 15, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Antonio Pierce starter on Super bowl team.
Ryan Clark starter on Super Bowl team.
I wonder what team the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The Ravens would never do that trade. It's stupid. Rice is their fast change of pace back. They don't need 2 Miami divas on 1 team. The Ravens are too smart for that.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 11:49 AM |

My post was meant to be a sarcastic putdown of the poster who had broached the possibility of a Portis trade. It is patently obvious that he is untradeable. A broken down RB with a huge salary cap hit. Plus it is even more patently obvious that Balt would never do that deal. Rice is a young a star with lots of good seasons left to play. Portis is old and broken down and he would be joining another U breakdown, Magahee, if he went to Balt. And Newsome is one of the most savy GMs there is. He'd launch one of his triple dense killer farts in your direction if you sounded that trade proposal on him.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Yep. Jason Campbell is going to get himself a big FA contract from Carolina next year, because he's wowed so many talent scouts around the NFL with his inability to look off his primary receiver, lack of pocket presence, fumbles, etc.

Or maybe the scouts just like the way he runs, as graceful as a blind epileptic having a heart attack.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Can we just not have a JC17 debate on the RI today? Or do you have nothing else to talk about?

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009

As long as nobody will argue against the fact that JC hasn't done squat to get a big contract from ANYBODY we won't have to debate..Maybe JC would have excelled if he had the HOGS and Monk and Clark and Sanders and Brown but he didnt have them and he never excelled...what he did have was a RB you could count on to get the ball most of the time and at least an average OL the majority of his time here. He had Cooley and Moss and not much else other than Randel El and Thrash..he had enough to show if he was GOOD and he didnt so that about sums it up!

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Dale Hunter:

All you say about Collins may be true.
He would still be better than Campbell.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

As long as nobody will argue against the fact that JC hasn't done squat to get a big contract from ANYBODY we won't have to debate..Maybe JC would have excelled if he had the HOGS and Monk and Clark and Sanders and Brown but he didnt have them and he never excelled...what he did have was a RB you could count on to get the ball most of the time and at least an average OL the majority of his time here. He had Cooley and Moss and not much else other than Randel El and Thrash..he had enough to show if he was GOOD and he didnt so that about sums it up!

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 12:23 PM

Glad you got it out. So let's move on.

Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Chopin224 - perhaps for the short-term.

But do you want to go anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 and miss the playoffs anyway and get a mid-round pick that the FO will f#ck up? Neither Collins or Campbell will be around next year, if they have a middling record they won't get Bradford, so they are screwed either way.

Posted by: DaleHunter | October 15, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, there aren't many 'Canes on that B'more squad.

...maps...

And seriously, what good does firing Vinny do NOW?! I agree that it should be done. But only two things are going to make a difference now. 1) Better coaching and 2) better QB play.

Any ideas?

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

2nd string Quarterbacks are always the saviour to the unsophisticated fan. Fact is they are 2nd string for a reason. Now and then they may come off the bench and do well, Those are the times that the rest of the team mans up because they know that they have to. Last time Collins played was when Campbell got carted off the field. That's the only way that he will play this season. Behind this Oline that is a distinct possibility. In that case Collins may play well, but in the long run, when teams prepare for him, and if the Skins aren't in the playoff hunt, he will be dead meat.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 15, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm just fascinated by the notion that so many people out here in the blogosphere are willing to believe they know how to manage the quarterback situation better than Jim Zorn.

The dude has his back against the wall, he knows his job is on the line and he's getting embarrassed out there, and he would do anything he could to get this team to start winning... and yet he hasn't taken the step that seems so very obvious to so many of you, playing Todd Collins. Why would that be, I wonder?

Why didn't Zorn, for example, bench Campbell after that recent sequence when he lost seven fumbles and threw four awful picks in a little more than one quarter of play? (I may have some of those numbers wrong, but you get my drift.)

Anybody who thinks some ulterior motive is at work, like a reluctance to bench a QB of color in favor of a white dude, out to take a breather. Anybody who thinks Zorn has been ordered to play Campbell by the front office, or something like that... I loathe Dan Snyder, but even I don't believe he would want for one tiny second suggest the coach do anything other than put his best 11 on the field for every snap.

Jason Campbell is the best quarterback on the Redskins' roster. Don't take my word for it, take Zorn's. I realize that's not saying much about the Redskins' roster, but it's October 15... the roster is what it is.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"We're talking about being able to walk."

That was a scary injury to watch. I thought he'd pulled a muscle off of the bone, like Thomas and Daniels. His arms *stopped*. He froze.

This stinger injury should probably be explained in more detail. It's not like things just hurt. His body froze like someone took the motor out.

Posted by: WorstSeat | October 15, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Star Wars?

I never saw that movie.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 15, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse


Tell-tale sign of a communist...

Posted by: p1funk | October 15, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Well, at least there are other good games to watch this year. Saints vs Giants and Vikes vs Ravens should be good entertainment.

You need help if you still are emotionally tied to this season. Get on with enjoying your life!! Spend some time with your family, play ps3 or xbox. Just know that until management changes their strategy for acquiring talent we will remain a laughing stock.

"Lowered Expectations"

Posted by: Rush21 | October 15, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Funny how so many of you guys quote Riggins when he bashes the front office,and Portis,but nothing about his comments about Zorn?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Actually, the Skins serve a good purpose. They have replaced the Lions as the laughing stock of the NFL. If Napoleon ran the Nats, he would bring in used up onetime great hitters and totally neglect the pitching staff. If he ran the Wizards, he would bring in formerly great shooting guards and neglect defense and rebounders. Frankly the Redskins would benefit from being owned by Ted who would build through the draft. If given the time that Napoleon has had, Ted would have had the Skins in the Super Bowl.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Nate, I love you maan, but why would I trust Zorn about anything? He's actively hurting himself.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I believe that a player should be judged by the content of his play, not the color of his skin. No decision should be made with racism or political correctness. The best players should play. Apparently, Collins has four years in the WCO now....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/todd-collins-is-back-and-happy.html

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

How about being good sports, congratulate the teams that beat you, and work to do better next time instead of acting like children deprived of something that was owed to them. That is and has been the problem with this franchise for the past 15 years - the sense of entitlement. Pre-season polls mean nothing, "talent" means nothing (every team has talent).

Stop expecting to beat the perennial losers because you're one, too.

Posted by: michaelmagnus9 | October 15, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Vinny C, please call Cleveland ASAP and see if they will trade Joe Thomas for a second round pick next year

Posted by: noonefromtampa | October 15, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Nate, I love you maan, but why would I trust Zorn about anything? He's actively hurting himself.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse


Bingo..if you know that your oline is weak,and your QB is bets out of the shotgun,why not design/run plays to your strenght?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I just spilled my bottle of Pepsi and I want to know WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS?

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 12:16 PM

The OLine. Their responsible for everything......including 9/11....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"and yet he hasn't taken the step that seems so very obvious to so many of you, playing Todd Collins. Why would that be, I wonder?"

Maybe because the coach realizes that the problem with the offense isn't lying with the QB who has thrown for the same amount of TDs as Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers -- and has thrown for more yards than Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Jay Cutler on the season.

It just might be possible that he sees the problems stemming from elsewhere. Just maybe.

Posted by: psps23 | October 15, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Dik, I realize I'm getting far afield here, but I'm trying to say that Zorn is the one guy in a position to make this QB change that's so obvious to the blogosphere brain trust.

For all his obvious faults and failures, I don't doubt Zorn wants to win. He's been living with Campbell and Collins for, what, twenty months now -- as noted above, they've had exactly the same amount of time to learn his offense. If Zorn believed Collins would give him a better chance to win a game than Campbell, I am positive he would play Collins. That he has not played Collins tells me quite a bit.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Bingo..if you know that your oline is weak,and your QB is bets out of the shotgun,why not design/run plays to your strenght?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't even stop there. Our QB has a slow relese and slow read progression. He is the worst fit for the WCO. Our recievers are young and very inexperienced route runners. They are the worst for a WCO. Our running back is a downhill between the tackles runner that doesn't catch well out of the backfield and can't make people miss in space. He's also very bad for the WCO. Moss is too short. The offensive line is too slow. The only offensive player we have that is a WCO person is Chris Cooley.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

We'd be 4-1 with a competent HC. And we'd also be looking at a 2nd half collapse with the OL in the shambles its in.

The season is far from lost -- but only if the front office is willing to bring in vet OL and this team starts playing to its abilities.

The 4th ranked defense from 2008 + Albert + Orakpo needs to hold Carolina to FGs instead of TDs. This defense needs to WIN games -- that's where the big investments have been made -- not simply keep us in games.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The dude has his back against the wall, he knows his job is on the line and he's getting embarrassed out there, and he would do anything he could to get this team to start winning... and yet he hasn't taken the step that seems so very obvious to so many of you, playing Todd Collins. Why would that be, I wonder?

Posted by: NateinthePDX |

______________________

He doesn't play Todd Collins because his job mandate since he was brought here has been to make Jason Campbell an effective quarterback. Turning to Todd Collins would be saying that he's a failure in that regard.

While the offensive line has definitely been the overriding issue with the offensive failures this year, Campbell and Zorn have also been inapt in several ways.

I don't claim to be an expert or know more than Zorn, but I do know that the team hasn't produced points or very many wins under his guidance or with Campbell starting.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Vinny C, please call Cleveland ASAP and see if they will trade Joe Thomas for a second round pick next year

Posted by: noonefromtampa | October 15, 2009 12:40 PM |

We would have a better chance of fleecing the Phins out of Jake Long, cornsidering how we fleeced them out of Jason Taylor last year.

Posted by: ElDrano | October 15, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Jacksonville pursued him aggressively, but Collins would have been the No.2 there as well.

"I think my intentions at end of last year were, if I had an opportunity to play that was the objective," Collins said. "I wanted to take a look around, but there didn't seem to be any viable spots to start, and once that wasn't a possibility I said all along I was open to coming back to Washington, and I'm happy to be back and with team and hope the guys continue with what we did last year."

I think that says it all right there. In his own word. No one wanted him as a starter. But you guys want to make him all world. PLEASE!!!

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Man I love watching you deadskin fans flip so easily. Pre season you're talking all this chit about how good you'd be, top five defense all that. Three games in you're all jumping off cliffs. Lol pathetic. Going to be great watching fat albert fall apart too. Way to pay so high a price for him. Great move! Enjoy your 6 and 10 record....if you're lucky. Hahahahaha

Posted by: YakAttack | October 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

So hears one to kick around:

Who would the RI faithful have taken with our 3rd round pick besides a CB who can't tell if his play book is upside down or not.

I'm taking Jonathon Luigs (C/G 6'4" 305 Arkansas)

Posted by: edvar | October 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

From Leonard Shapiro's column:

Asked about the team's hiring last week of former NFL offensive coordinator Sherman Lewis to provide Coach Jim Zorn an "extra set of eyes," Jurgensen said, "If I was Zorn, I'd quit."


By the way , when (obviously not if) the Redskins do make a head coaching change, don't expect former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick to get an interview. Billick, now a game analyst for Fox, was assigned to the Carolina game and also was pointedly critical of Lewis's hiring during the game telecast, saying, "I'm not sure that's the message you want to send to your players."

Of the constant turmoil surrounding the team, Billick said, "That organization has brought it on themselves."


And you'd also have to wonder if columnist and author John Feinstein will be invited back for future guest appearances on ESPN-980's "Sports Reporters" after some of his comments directed toward the Redskins owner Tuesday afternoon.

Feinstein suggested if Redskins fans are that disgusted with all they're seeing, they should boycott Sunday's home game against Kansas City at FedEx Field. Stay home and watch on television, he suggested, and see what Snyder thinks about all those empty seats.

That clearly would get the message across, said Feinstein, who also speculated what might have happened if New England owner Robert Kraft came down to Bill Belichick's office after the Patriots' loss to Denver on Sunday and suggested bringing in former Redskins defensive coordinator Richie Petitbon as "another set of eyes."

Posted by: cannontl | October 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark were both starters on Super bowl teams. I wonder what the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with."

Carlos Rogers, Nawlins Saints.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn believed Collins would give him a better chance to win a game than Campbell, I am positive he would play Collins. That he has not played Collins tells me quite a bit.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:44 PM

Not only that Nate, but EVERY coach he's ever had in 15 NFL seasons, save for 1997, has thought the same thing about TheTodd.
But clearly, he's the answer to the myriad problems with this franchise.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Hey, YakAttack, news alert: we're doing just fine ripping each other to threads over our beloved team's lousy season.

So, thanks for the kind offer of help, but at the moment we don't need interlopers from other fan communities to try and make us feel worse.

Don't call us, we'll call you.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Man I love watching you deadskin fans flip so easily. Pre season you're talking all this chit about how good you'd be, top five defense all that. Three games in you're all jumping off cliffs. Lol pathetic. Going to be great watching fat albert fall apart too. Way to pay so high a price for him. Great move! Enjoy your 6 and 10 record....if you're lucky. Hahahahaha

Posted by: YakAttack | October 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Oh, just be quiet

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"ripping ourself to shreds."

Ahem.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Carlos Rogers, Nawlins Saints.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I can totally seeing that happening. And why we are on the subject. Williams have them playing much better D than they have in a very long time. (Saints that is)

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

9/.....

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Jacksonville pursued him aggressively, but Collins would have been the No.2 there as well.

"I think my intentions at end of last year were, if I had an opportunity to play that was the objective," Collins said. "I wanted to take a look around, but there didn't seem to be any viable spots to start, and once that wasn't a possibility I said all along I was open to coming back to Washington, and I'm happy to be back and with team and hope the guys continue with what we did last year."

I think that says it all right there. In his own word. No one wanted him as a starter. But you guys want to make him all world. PLEASE!!!

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse


I think if you will read between the lines you will hear that TC wants to play...and being a veteran and student of the game, I'm sure he knew that JC ain't squat and this was probably his best chance to play but he obviously wouldn't say that would he?

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

...../11.

*wild applause*

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I have often laughed about us everyday folk assessing personnel. Always thought there is NO WAY we know more than people that get paid millions to do the job. But all every person who has a nickels sense could say about this team was, WE MUST BOLSTER the O-Line. We are looking at QBs, coaches, owners for resolve. It has and is SO CLEAR that we need Vinny gone. Owners of successful teams hire good management and write checks. IE NE, Pitt, NY Giants, Indy, etc. The pressure for Snyder to say hey Vin, your my new "consultant" But I'm bringing Marty back to be GM, Cowher to coach and let them figure it out while we go play raquet ball...

Posted by: Club320 | October 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

The issue is not about who is the QB (Collins or Campbell or whomever), it is about having competent football people in charge to bring in the proper talent to play and the proper coaches to coach them.

Posted by: cannontl | October 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I think if you will read between the lines you will hear that TC wants to play...and being a veteran and student of the game, I'm sure he knew that JC ain't squat and this was probably his best chance to play but he obviously wouldn't say that would he?

Posted by: scottmando

I guess that means he is below squat since he hasn't been a starter in NLF himself more than what a year. He is 36 and only been a starter a year. What is that telling you? Some of you guys are more lost than Dan and Vinney if you think Collins is anything more than a back up.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why people hate Todd Collins so much that they want to see him play behind this offensive line.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I think as 4th stated yesterday, the redskins can extend a tag on both Rogers, and JC, and have them not leave without the team getting compensation......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark were both starters on Super bowl teams. I wonder what the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with."


Antawn Randle El, Chicago Bears

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I don't think of TC as any kind of answer. In fact he's probably worse than JC..I don't think he's much worse tho so if it was me as the GM I'd find any team that would give me anything for him and say byebye because he ain't gonna be here next year so cut ur losses and get something for him while you still can..

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn believed Collins would give him a better chance to win a game than Campbell, I am positive he would play Collins. That he has not played Collins tells me quite a bit.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 12:44 PM
--------------------------------

What does it tell you?

This is the same coach whose offense has yet to crack the elusive 20 point barrier this season. The same coach who went for it on 4th down in a SCORELESS game in the 1ST QUARTER, the same coach who declined a third down penalty for fear the Lions MIGHT go up 3-0, gave the Lions another crack at third down, and they ended up ahead 7-0; the same coach who stated "we're improving" after the Lions game; the same coach who threw a challenge flag on the ARE muffed punt when EVERYONE already knew that the ball had hit off of Westbrook's leg, thereby burning his last timeout.

You want to trust him, go right ahead.

Don't ask me to do the same.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark were both starters on Super bowl teams. I wonder what the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with."


Anthony Montegomery or Andre Carter, Denver Broncos

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

As a reminder, we are now down to 8 OL.

The starters:

Heyer, Dock, Rabach, Monty, BMW

The backups:

Batiste, Edwin Williams, Rinehart and William Robinson (who?) on the practice squad.

I see Heyer, BMW and Rinehart as injury risks. Rino is hurt now, Heyer has missed time each year and BMW's drastic changes make him more vulnerable.

So our OL could be:
Batiste, Dock, Rabach, Monty and Edwin Williams

Perfect for Halloween. For an NFL team ... not so perfect

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm just fascinated by the notion that so many people out here in the blogosphere are willing to believe they know how to manage the quarterback situation better than Jim Zorn. The dude has his back against the wall, he knows his job is on the line and he's getting embarrassed out there, and he would do anything he could to get this team to start winning... and yet he hasn't taken the step that seems so very obvious to so many of you, playing Todd Collins. Why would that be, I wonder?
Posted by: NateinthePDX
_____
Look no one doubts that Zorn THINKS Campbell gives him his best chance to win.. The question is.. is he right??? Look I hate to keep going back to 2007 but the Skins were 5-7, they had lost their last 4 games.. many on the blog was saying bench Campbell (i know cause I was one of them) but Gibbs was sticking with Campbell, he started the Bear game but got hurt. Collins came in.. played great and the team won. With Collins they beat the Giants, Vikings and the Cowboys. Gibbs said "no thought that would happen." Gibbs said "it was the best performance off the bench he has EVER seen." But how come some of us weren't surprised?? Look I not saying it means all of us on the blogosphere knew more than Gibbs.. of course we don't. But it does mean Gibbs must of had a blind spot when it came to his QB. Maybe Zorn has the same one. Again people are going to say well Collins was good then because he knew Saunders system.. well then how come Gibbs didn't expect Collins would be so good?? How come Gibbs didn't start Collins at the start of the season if it was so clear??? Bottomline coaches aren't gods.. they stick with a QB for a number of reasons thinking they are right.. but sometimes they aren't. All I hear anyone here say is TRY something else.. Campbell at QB is not working.. change it up.. maybe Collins will surprise Zorn as much as he surprised Gibbs..

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

If JC17 gets good protection this weekend, he better be able to deliver some nice passes to the WRs.

Havent seen much of the Chiefs this year...do they blitz alot (I am assuming if the answer is no they are sure to start this weekend)

Posted by: CheyenneWY | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I don't think of TC as any kind of answer. In fact he's probably worse than JC..I don't think he's much worse tho so if it was me as the GM I'd find any team that would give me anything for him and say byebye because he ain't gonna be here next year so cut ur losses and get something for him while you still can..

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:


For JC that is

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is the best quarterback on the Redskins' roster. Don't take my word for it, take Zorn's.

Doesn't that apply to every position? Like, say, WR, where the conspiracy theorists believe that The MAN is keeping our boy Marko Mitchell down?

'Cause I totally agree with you. JC gives us the best chance to win. The only reason to contemplate a different arm is to see if you can get a better feel for how good/bad the fiesta trio are. Right now, I'm of the opinion that the offense is dysfunctional through 5 games (i.e., with Samuels on the field) not because of talent, but because the JZ --> JC relationship isn't working.
But without something to compare it to, it could just be that Vinnie took the three lemons in the draft.

Posted by: daggar | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"If JC17 gets good protection this weekend, he better be able to deliver some nice passes to the WRs."

Agreed, but he's probably going to have to call the Secret Service if he wants to get that kind of protection in Washington this week.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Not only that Nate, but EVERY coach he's ever had in 15 NFL seasons, save for 1997, has thought the same thing about TheTodd.
But clearly, he's the answer to the myriad problems with this franchise.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

************************

Thank you for being the voice of reason. The Todd would have been a starter a LOOOOOONG time ago, if he was starter material. He's a great 2nd string QB - can come in when needed and play fairly well, but seriously, the last 5 games of the 2007 season doesn't magically turn him into Payton or even Eli.

Posted by: suzannepdc | October 15, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I think as 4th stated yesterday, the redskins can extend a tag on both Rogers, and JC, and have them not leave without the team getting compensation......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

That's what I would do. Then I'd use my first 2 picks on offensive linemen. Then let's see what this team does. There will be more QBs in 2011 and 2012 and etc. Why get one now and throw him behind this awful line? Take the QB we have and build the line first. If you're right and he does suck then we'll replace him. If he doesn't suck then you save a first round draft pick. It's a no lose situation. We aren't winning the super bowl anytime soon anyway. We're not 1 QB away from winning it all. Do the right thing and build a dominant offensive line for years to come.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Nate - perhaps he cannot see the forest for the trees? His choices and behavior certainly exemplify this. I'm firmly convinced that the man is more concerned with HOW to do is job instead of DOING his job or any results - including winning.

Yes, I said it. I believe Zorn would rather loose his way than win anothers'. Kinda like the owner. eek. Too many Sinatras!! (That's my favorite ribald Katsgills(sp?!?) dinner theatre!)

And Yak-drinker, feel free to kick at us while we're down. Perhaps you could let us know which vile alley you haunt so that when the other foot falls for your squad we can be there to rub salt in the wound.
Ahhhh... mixed metaphor heaven.

btw, I haven't had much problem w/ Big Al. He's a known commodity who plays 50% of the season. Hard to blame any of this on him. I believe we've had more sacks and turnovers on a per game basis - so that's a win.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark were both starters on Super bowl teams. I wonder what the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with."


Rock Cartwright, Cincinnati Bengals

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I can not believe you people are still playing the mf'ing blame game.

IT IS ALL OF THEM

From Snyder to the dude that puts the screens in the urinals at Redskins Park.

Please, guys, STOP it with the "it's Campbell", "no, it's the offensive line", "it's Vinny's and Danny's fault" bullsh**!!!

Again, IT IS EVERYONE!

On another note, Rypien11, good "Family Guy" pull.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 15, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Ryp, good one!

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"Samuels plans to meet with physicians Tuesday to re-evaluate his injury, but after speaking with league sources the past two days, I expect Samuels to sit out the rest of the season and seriously contemplate retirement"--RI

Yet another indication of the cluelessness rampant in the upper reaches of Redskins Manglement, Their very very best linemen has been playing with a condition that coiuld end his career with the next block and they STILL didnt' address the offensive line issues.

Posted by: TheCork | October 15, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

sovine08 I have one question for you. Why wasn't Collins a starter before he came to the Skins? Why no team wanted him as a starter last year when he was free to go anywhere he wanted? I guess 31 other coaches got it out for Collins. Get a damn grip man and realize that he is nothing more that what he been his entire career. A BACK UP!!

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

To offset the Chiefs nasty blitzing pass rush, the Skins should employ a gameplan of draws and screen passes to Moss and our under utilized scat back Anthony Alridge. It's really the only chance we have.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Look I hate to keep going back to 2007 but the Skins were 5-7, they had lost their last 4 games.. many on the blog was saying bench Campbell (i know cause I was one of them) but Gibbs was sticking with Campbell, he started the Bear game but got hurt. Collins came in.. played great and the team won. With Collins they beat the Giants, Vikings and the Cowboys.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM


That was in a completely different offensive system, which Collins knew inside and out because he'd spent most of his career in it, and it was behind a better offensive line.

2007 to present day is apples to orangutans.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

fedor, agreed, they need to employ lots of quick passes, 3 step drops, draw plays, screens, fake screens, ball fakes....keep KC off balance, wear their defense out with the short dink/dunk, then grind them to a nub in the 4th....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

"Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark were both starters on Super bowl teams. I wonder what the next Redskin player cut at the end of the season will end up with."

Mike Williams, Jenny Craig

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Who the heck said Collins was a starter? Or that he was Eli or Peyton?

The retorts via hyperbole are amusing.

No one is saying Collins should be THE STARTER. What people are saying is give him a shot and see what he can do for the TEAM. As in maybe score at least 20 points and win some games.

As for the other issues, OL, GM, HC, RB, they all have to be addressed as well, but this is one area (QB) that can and should be changed soon, because at the end of the day it's the coach's responsibility to give their TEAM a chance to win, not to worry about any one individual's psyche.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

some fans and media members think that 99 yards is significantly less than 100, apparently.

Just ridiculous.

Portis had 98 yards in a game that he had a 12 yard run called back for holding on Kelly.

And last year in a game that he did not eclipse 100 yards rushing he had well over 100 in combined yards.

are these people that shallow? Is 99 horrible and 100 outstanding?

Portis hasn't broken 100 yards rushing and he's 10th in rushing.

26 is aheadof jones-drew, turner, barber, the jones brothers, gore, slaton, d williams, etc.

player haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pabrian2003, I think it is significant that the Redskins have not had a 100 yard rusher in any game this season, no matter who is running. It's less about the individual player in my opinion and more about the team's lack of offensive running production and, by extension, overall lack of offensive production.

Sure, 98 yards by CP in the Tampa game is close to 100. And look, they won that game. OK. But that doesn't mean the running game is fine. CP is 10th in the league in rushing. OK. What has that done for the Redskins team? Not much.

2-3 going into KC at home. Undefeated at home, you say. Best is yet to come, you will say.

Whatever. We disagree. I love this team. But it is a bad team right now playing ugly football. And with Samuels likely out for the season (and retiring to boot), prospects don't look good for a "return to glory" anytime soon.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Okay,
I'm a Skins fan and I don't want it to be true, but at this point we're practicing for next season.

They're not the worst team in the league, but they are below average. The chances of a Skins playoff berth are near zero.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | October 15, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

I believe what Nate is trying to say is, "I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 2:53 AM

This is Vinnie's cue to fire Zorn. The guy is being asked to chop wood with both hands tied behind his back.........

Posted by: Krooz | October 15, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Yep. Jason Campbell is going to get himself a big FA contract from Carolina next year, because he's wowed so many talent scouts around the NFL with his inability to look off his primary receiver, lack of pocket presence, fumbles, etc.

Or maybe the scouts just like the way he runs, as graceful as a blind epileptic having a heart attack.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

Speaking of blind, your evident hatred for campbell has made you blind to his strength. He is a quite good runner. In fact, he doesn't run enough.

He needs to read quicker--schocker--but perhaps he's mezmerized watching DB's doing card tricks and flirting with the cheerleaders as the guy they're covering fruitlessly tries to get open, or when his best possession receiver is allowed to go on a pattern, instead of trying to chip block because the OT's can't block.

Posted by: TheCork | October 15, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Collins backed up Pro Bowler Trent Green (DC's former QB) who never got hurt then. Soup can't read a D: Collins can. This is more important than arm strength and mobility. It is most important. Unless Snyder is under center. We are comparing a backup who made the most of his opportunity here and a future backup that has not.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

If you want an indication of how incredibly clueless the front office is ... answer this:

What OL have the Skins brought in for a tryout since Samuels and Thomas went down?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Look I hate to keep going back to 2007 but the Skins were 5-7, they had lost their last 4 games.. many on the blog was saying bench Campbell (i know cause I was one of them) but Gibbs was sticking with Campbell, he started the Bear game but got hurt. Collins came in.. played great and the team won. With Collins they beat the Giants, Vikings and the Cowboys.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 1:06 PM


That was in a completely different offensive system, which Collins knew inside and out because he'd spent most of his career in it, and it was behind a better offensive line.

2007 to present day is apples to orangutans.

Posted by: freakzilla
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And people seem to have forgotten that the Redskins were playing some teams that had already made the playoffs and were resting starters (like the Giants, who rested Eli Manning for most of the game)...this helped the Redskins a little bit too, you have to admit.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Jurgensen was particularly critical of quarterback Jason Campbell, saying during a pregame show last weekend he would have used backup Tom Collins instead and that, "I think Collins would have won all four of these games."

Not the kind of guy to say I told yall so, but a few weeks ago everyone laughed at me when I said the exact same thing...

Posted by: prescrunk


I think both you and Sonny have had one too many Tom Collins. When you call a guy out, at least try to get his name right. On second thought never mind. I can't criticize ANY redskin fan for drinking too much these days.

Posted by: TheCork | October 15, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Actually I can't remember now exactly who the Giants were resting in late 2007 when we played them, but they were preparing for a run through the playoffs and resting some key people.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of blind, your evident hatred for campbell has made you blind to his strength. He is a quite good runner. In fact, he doesn't run enough.

He needs to read quicker--schocker--but perhaps he's mezmerized watching DB's doing card tricks and flirting with the cheerleaders as the guy they're covering fruitlessly tries to get open, or when his best possession receiver is allowed to go on a pattern, instead of trying to chip block because the OT's can't block.

Posted by: TheCork | October 15, 2009 1:21 PM |
-------------------------
Go back and read the RI blog and you'll see that I don't "hate" Campbell, nor could any hatred be "evident." I've supported him from draft day until this season.

Try getting your facts straight next time, or better yet, go back to your little draftdog blog, you sub-Edmund Wilson wannabe.

PS: Don't hate on me just because you want to USE that "graceful as a blind epileptic having a heart attack" line as your own.

You have my permission to steal it.

:)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Collins backed up Pro Bowler Trent Green (DC's former QB) who never got hurt then. Soup can't read a D: Collins can. This is more important than arm strength and mobility. It is most important. Unless Snyder is under center. We are comparing a backup who made the most of his opportunity here and a future backup that has not.

Posted by: Realness1

I see why Dan runs the team the way he does now. People like you.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

fedorem

"To offset the Chiefs nasty blitzing pass rush, the Skins should employ a gameplan of draws and screen passes to Moss and our under utilized scat back Anthony Alridge."

The draw is a play folks will look out for.

The chiefs will do their best to take Moss out of the game.

I think the team should just 'old school': double tight, fullback lead power/trap, jumbo, and run playaction once the mix of Betts-Portis-Mason gets going.

That way, Campbell doesn't get hit, and when he does pass, the team can easily 'max protect' and run crossing and iso pass plays of the run action they set up early in the game.

It would be foolish to put the ball up in the air a lot with Samuels gone.

Go back to the 'riggo drill': it's all we got.

Let's just run the chiefs into the ground and throw over their heads when they get tired.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

As for the other issues, OL, GM, HC, RB, they all have to be addressed as well, but this is one area (QB) that can and should be changed soon, because at the end of the day it's the coach's responsibility to give their TEAM a chance to win, not to worry about any one individual's psyche.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:19 PM

The only move to improve the 2009 campaign is try TC. Everything else is off season. They do not like it, so they say; try it, try it and they may.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Jurgensen was particularly critical of quarterback Jason Campbell, saying during a pregame show last weekend he would have used backup Tom Collins instead and that, "I think Collins would have won all four of these games."

Not the kind of guy to say I told yall so, but a few weeks ago everyone laughed at me when I said the exact same thing...

Posted by: prescrunk

Jurgenson's been known to use a backup Tom Collins when out of Jack Daniels.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 15, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Collins backed up Pro Bowler Trent Green (DC's former QB) who never got hurt then. Soup can't read a D: Collins can. This is more important than arm strength and mobility. It is most important. Unless Snyder is under center. We are comparing a backup who made the most of his opportunity here and a future backup that has not.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

You guys are still thinking short term. Even if you are right and Todd is better than JC it does us no good whatsoever to win 2-3 more games this year. All it does give us a crappier draft pick. Collins is 36 there is no future with him. He'll be out of the league in 2-3 years. JC gets better every year. We aren't winning the super bowl for at least 2-3 years. Why not let JC play while we build our team? He is cheap and it will save us a draft pick. We can build a dominant team and hope he is good enough. If he isn't showing any improvement by the time this team is ready to make a run we can dump him and draft a first round QB then. There is no point in not keeping him other than trying to stay mediocre. We've been mediocre for 17 years and I'm tired of it. Let's think longterm here.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Try getting your facts straight next time...

Man, the requirements Up Here are getting tougher and tougher. Who knew?

Posted by: daggar | October 15, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

As for the other issues, OL, GM, HC, RB, they all have to be addressed as well, but this is one area (QB) that can and should be changed soon, because at the end of the day it's the coach's responsibility to give their TEAM a chance to win, not to worry about any one individual's psyche.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad we are amusing you, MrRedskin21. Let me clarify:

It is definitely Jim Zorn's job to give the team a chance to win, no question. What I, and many others, are disagreeing with you about is this: I don't think Collins gives us a better chance to win than Campbell.

My evidence for this claim is that Collins is a career backup, and has been for over a decade, who has an expert knowledge of Al Saunders system. That's why he was valuable in KC, and it's why we brought him here in the first place. After his great run in 2007, nobody wanted him. If Saunders was still the OC here, I would have let him start the 2008 season as the QB. But Saunders is gone, and Collins has admittedly struggled in Zorn's system in the past two preseasons.

If I was running a football team, I would play the best players at each position for every game, including the QB position. Call me crazy, but that's what I would do. If Collins was a better QB than Campbell, or any other QB for that matter, and gave any one of the 32 teams in the NFL the best chance to win, I'm sure he would be starting here, or on some other roster. But he's not.

On a related note, it amuses me that this is your 5,453rd consecutive post about benching Jason Campbell...

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Go Back to the Future for Offensive Line Help

Dateline: Washington, D.C.

With the ever shuffling of the Offensive Line becoming a daily event even through practice, the Washington Redskins have inked a deal with 80 year Ray Brown, former Redskin Lineman, to bolster their line.

"I've been with the Redskins when they were winners and I hope to bring that attitude with me when I suit up again for my 35th season," said Brown who has been sitting in his LazyBoy recliner while watching Bingo tournaments on ESPN2 since he retired from the Redskins a decade or so ago.

"I can move around pretty good without a walker most days and I've got a natural hunch to my back so I'll be able to get into a three point stance real good," noted Brown. "I might be a bit stiff at the start of the game but with a bit of Geritol I expect to be able to play until we have six possessions when I might wear out. But, I'd jump into a pool of Sharks for Buges and apparently I'll be facing bulldozers from here on out with opposing defenses seeing easy prey. Hey! I'm game! At league minimum I'll make about $2 million this season for a person with nearly 4 decades of service and I'll be happy!"

In other news Joe Theisman was seen getting a specially prepared athletic shoe fitted for his short leg and could be available if called upon should Jason Campbell, Todd Collins, and Randle El become incapicated during the Eagles game. I've been part of body bag games before and I'll have a bigger shoe to kick and trip those damned Eagles!" noted Theisman.

Rumors are circulating that Vinnie Cerrato is trolling sandlots looking for talent for his team. Anyone interested in playing for the Redskins after Zorn is fired need only call 1-800-Dedskin.

Posted by: laserwizard | October 15, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Portis hasn't broken 100 yards rushing and he's 10th in rushing.

26 is aheadof jones-drew, turner, barber, the jones brothers, gore, slaton, d williams, etc.

player haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM


Let's see.

Gore has missed 2 games due to injury.

DWilliams had a bye week, and plays in an established time-share backfield.

Thomas Jones - established time-share backfield.

Barber is now in a time share and has been injured.

Being "ahead" of Julius Jones doesn't get you much credit. Nor Steve Slaton who is in year 2 of his career, and has yet to establish himself as a legit NFL back despite being drafted highly in fantasy football leagues.

Being ahead of Jones-Drew and Turner are legit. Of course the argument can simply cut in the other direction - it's an indication of slow-starts for running in Atlanta and Jax; not an indication of how wildly productive and good CP has been.

Posted by: p1funk | October 15, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Shouldn't this post be called "Samuels' Neck Injury Likely Career Ending"? It seems like that is the biggest bit of "reporting" in this story. Great work Jason.

Posted by: CitizenSkoal | October 15, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Even though I absolutely despise this team and organization and hope they lose every game, I really do feel for the players and coaches at the Park, especially Zorn and Campbell. It must be tough on them and their families to be going through the crap that Snyder is putting them through right now.

It's ludicrous that Snyder is demanding more of Zorn's time explaining away the offense when he can make better use of it by preparing for the Chiefs. Yet another sign of dysfunction in a long line of signs from Snyder and Cerrato.

Posted by: playahatah | October 15, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

i wonder what the mood is like at the snyder household. is he completely oblivious to all this criticism? the man is so stubborn that it is disturbing.

Posted by: brian58 | October 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

This is more important than arm strength and mobility. It is most important. Unless Snyder is under center. We are comparing a backup who made the most of his opportunity here and a future backup that has not.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

So running is down. Agreed.

And I don't think we're playing the blame game - we're playing the 'what to fix first' game. Similar, but different.

You can't fix the FO now. You can't fix the draft now. So, what can you fix?

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

And people seem to have forgotten that the Redskins were playing some teams that had already made the playoffs and were resting starters (like the Giants, who rested Eli Manning for most of the game)...this helped the Redskins a little bit too, you have to admit.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse


Manning was NOT rested during any part of this game..I was there at the Meadowlands that game..by the end of the game i had all the skins fans in my section and the sections on either side of me singing HTTR as the Giants fans filed out dejected..what a fun time that was...but you have him mistaken for the 2nd half of the Dallas game when Dallas rested starters after 3 quarters of getting beat up..again HTTR! we'll recover. we always do!

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad we are amusing you, MrRedskin21. Let me clarify:

It is definitely Jim Zorn's job to give the team a chance to win, no question. What I, and many others, are disagreeing with you about is this: I don't think Collins gives us a better chance to win than Campbell.

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 1:32 PM |
---------------------------------

Since Collins has to yet to play a regular season game since Zorn arrived, you have no evidence to support that claim.

Unlike you, I don't say one way or the other what Collins would do - be better than JC in this system or worse - I only say that he should be given the opportunity, for the TEAM, and its fans. And I'm not alone in that sentiment. However, unlike you, I feel no urge to use "we" in my replies. I think it's best when everyone speaks for him/herself.

Also, I'm glad you're not only reading every post, but keeping an accurate count as well.

Thanks.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

And the Giants were still fighting for home feild advantage and not resting anybody

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I think the team should just 'old school': double tight, fullback lead power/trap, jumbo, and run playaction once the mix of Betts-Portis-Mason gets going.

That way, Campbell doesn't get hit, and when he does pass, the team can easily 'max protect' and run crossing and iso pass plays of the run action they set up early in the game.

It would be foolish to put the ball up in the air a lot with Samuels gone.

Go back to the 'riggo drill': it's all we got.

Let's just run the chiefs into the ground and throw over their heads when they get tired.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 15, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

That wouldn't be west coast,so zorn wouldn't do it.no matter how effective it might be.

Posted by: jumbo5383 | October 15, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know how Gruden builds his teams? Does he look to get the QB first or OL? Does he build by skilled players or the big uglies?"
Posted by: TWISI | October 15, 2009 11:20 AM


Jon Gruden was paired with Bruce Allen handling personnel and GM for much of his time with both Raiders and Tampa Bay. this is sometimes overlooked when discussing his record.

the first 2 years of tampa were hindered in acquiring players (2 1st rounders traded to raiders in the trade for gruden himself). combined with salary cap hell.

but, he did have warren sapp on defense (who the redskins passed over in 95 due to potsmoking issues, and picked michael westbrook, ugh).

when allen got to tampa in 2004, they took michael clayton (wr) and in 05 cadillac williams who was rookie of the year. and extricated the team from salary cap hell to free up free agent acquisitions.

the loss of Gruden AND Allen, combined with al davis' ascendant lunacy, spelled doom for the raiders.

any coach coming to redskins would seem to have some negotiating leverage to get some semblance of sanity at the GM position here (which does not currently exist - vinny is not a gm). this could be trouble too though, as coaches who insist on being the GM themselves don't have a great track record overall (see especially, shanahan)

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

What OL have the Skins brought in for a tryout since Samuels and Thomas got hurt?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Go Back to the Future for Offensive Line Help

Dateline: Washington, D.C.

With the ever shuffling of the Offensive Line becoming a daily event even through practice, the Washington Redskins have inked a deal with 80 year Ray Brown, former Redskin Lineman, to bolster their line.

I won't believe it till Beantown Greg posts a link

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

My copy of Lord of the Flies was missing several pages, so I printed out a few pages of RI comments and stuck them in the book.

Seamless.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

OL help?? why worry about that?? what time do we get the court Danny??

Vinny

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I think as 4th stated yesterday, the redskins can extend a tag on both Rogers, and JC, and have them not leave without the team getting compensation......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 1:02 PM

We can tag CR22 with a 1st and a 3rd for like $3.5Mil and JC17 with a 1st rounder tag for like $2/2.5Mil.

Someone may bite on CR22, but I doubt anyone would want Campbaell for a 1, so he stays with us next year in a back up role.

You thought he hates the Skins now.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I think Jason Campbell was doomed from the beginning of the last season to fail.. New coach bad OL, receivers that can't get open or step up and catch... Danny boy will get rid of JC... Carlos wants out so he spoke his mind and now he'll be gone too maybe before next weeks trade deadline.. As they say tomorrow is another day... Who knows what will happen but things don't look good ...

Posted by: NYSkinFAN | October 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"PFT has learned that in their quest to replace starting offensive linemen, Randy Thomas, and Chris Samuels, the Washington Redskins have brought in none other than former players Ray Brown, as well as Mo Eloniwibi, both of whom haven't played meaningful football in quiet some time"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

To get OL help at this point would mess up the whole blame game Vinny has pegged on JZ and JC

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

al davis' ascendant lunacy

Great Band Name

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Since Collins has to yet to play a regular season game since Zorn arrived, you have no evidence to support that claim.

Unlike you, I don't say one way or the other what Collins would do - be better than JC in this system or worse - I only say that he should be given the opportunity, for the TEAM, and its fans. And I'm not alone in that sentiment. However, unlike you, I feel no urge to use "we" in my replies. I think it's best when everyone speaks for him/herself.

Also, I'm glad you're not only reading every post, but keeping an accurate count as well.

Thanks.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 15, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

You're welcome. And keep on riding the TC train! I'm sure he appreciates your support.

P.S. is it the pot calling the kettle black to criticize me for using "we" in my replies, saying I should speak for myself, and then using the phrase "I'm not alone in that sentiment" to validate your opinion?

Posted by: mattylight | October 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

our best hope is that somebody like Dungy or Cowher could be swayed into taking this Job and they would only take it if they could pick the GM and they bring in a true Pro to do the job right. Otherwise this is Groundhog Day for the next 10-20 years

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

My copy of Lord of the Flies was missing several pages, so I printed out a few pages of RI comments and stuck them in the book.

Seamless.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 1:49 PM

Wow, 'zilla, I wasn't expecting to read this today! Funnnnnnny. Keep it up. Of course, that was your plan anyway.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

sovine08 I have one question for you. Why wasn't Collins a starter before he came to the Skins? Why no team wanted him as a starter last year when he was free to go anywhere he wanted? I guess 31 other coaches got it out for Collins. Get a damn grip man and realize that he is nothing more that what he been his entire career. A BACK UP!!
Posted by: jm220
_______
Why because he ended up behind a good QB Trent Green who didn't get hurt. And if performance counts he SHOULD have been the starter in Washington considering how well he did compared to Brunell and Campbell. And far as a free agent hey not saying being in his late 30 hurts his chances to start elsewhere but the question is who's best HERE. But I have a question for you IF Campbell is so good how the the Skins didn't extend his contract? How come they wanted to trade him for Cutler? How come the Broncos wanted Orton instead of Campbell? (BTW it seems they made the right call). How come when that failed the Skins tried to trade him for Sanchez? How come Rodney Harrison calls Campbell no better than a 2nd string QB. How come Jimmy Johnson says Campbell is not "Championship caliber". How come Jurgersen says he would have benched Campbell and Collins would be 4-1 if he was playing? If everyone says your drunk you probably are and if everyone say's you aren't that good.. you probably aren't..

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Our next best hope is that Dan Snyder starts going on the sidelines ALA Jerry Jones and BMW accidently falls on him and kills him

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, thank you. Ill be here all night.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

At this point, I think if Snyder visited the sidelines, he wouldn't survive 5 minutes.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS: Alert in Washington, D. C.

The Washington Redskins football practice was delayed nearly two hours today
after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the practice field. Head coach Jim Zorn immediately suspended practice and called the police and federal investigators.

After a complete analysis, FBI forensic experts determined that the white
substance unknown to players was the GOAL LINE.

Practice resumed after special agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again this season."

I needed a good laugh about now.....

Posted by: ksquare | October 15, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"Portis hasn't broken 100 yards rushing and he's 10th in rushing."
Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 15, 2009 11:28 AM

this "10th ranked in rushing" claim is a bit strained.

yes, portis is 10th in total yards. with 338 yds after 5 games, he is smack dab in the middle of a second tier of RB's who are in RB-by-committee systems (ray rice, ahmad bradshaw both ahead of him). the top 5 all have more than 440 yds.

in yards per game, portis is ranked 18th.

that would be fine, he is still serviceable

except - they restructured his contract in 2008 with a $9.3 million signing bonus, and $15 million guaranteed money for 08, 09 and 2010. they restructured to avoid a cap hit caused by his previously exorbitant $50 million 2004 contract. so, there are opportunity costs in other players you don't acquire, in order to restructure a massive payout for basically a second tier RB.

i still like portis. but for that money you could fill a lot of holes. and plenty of teams bring in young RBs thru the draft and they do quite well.

dominant left tackles, however, are not that easy to find.

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Always gratifying when someone gets one of my jokes, t_e. Thanks.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Even the bad teams that we have played can gameplan if they know what it is that you are doing. The Skins don't fool anyone. Wouldn't you think that against teams that are down and out like the Rams, Lions, Panthers, and now the Chiefs that this would be the time to try new things and get creative. Teams with bad luck are the perfect guinea pigs to try this stuff out on. Swap personel, activate younger, fresher guys. We can't try this against New Orleans, NYG, Philly, Atl, Den. I thought we hired Zorn to be an innovative mind who was aggressive and tried new things. He is as vanilla as it gets. At this point we are one of those teams now. We gotta have a desperation type game plan. Who knows we may break 20 this time.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

al davis' ascendant lunacy

Great Band Name

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 1:54 PM

thanks JohnD. it does have a better ring to it than "al davis' yellowed denture scum"

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

great turn of phrase, really

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: hithere1 | October 15, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

sovine08/other Todd Collins worshipers read this slowly so it can sink in.

Todd Collins is at best a short term answer. He is 38 and at best would lead this team to 8-8. His trade stock will never rise because of his age and winning a couple more games only moves you further away from elite talent in the draft.

The further down we move in the draft the more likely it is that Dan/Vinny will have to package picks to move up.

If Campbell plays well than his trade stock goes up and we can get higher picks for him. If you bench him now for the season you will be killing his trade value.

In summary give Campbell the season. With the current state of the team it doesn't matter who walks out their to play QB.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 15, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Dude's on ESPN 980 had an interesting idea...

Mike Holmgren as GM with Gruden as coach.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

C'mon, ya'll really think with a "drafted" O-lineman, Campbell would be better.

Campbell is not an elite QB!!!!

Posted by: rickyroge | October 14, 2009 9:30 PM

And Mark Rypien was?

Posted by: ecale25 | October 15, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Always gratifying when someone gets one of my jokes, t_e. Thanks.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 2:03 PM |

Make that two. Well done.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

And Mark Rypien was?

Posted by: ecale25 | October 15, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

-----------

He was for a year anyway.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

There could be 40,000 Eagles fans at FedEx later this month.

Posted by: Kev29 | October 14, 2009 3:08 PM

Kev29, so go to the game and get your friends to as well, instead of complaining about other fans at the stadium.

Posted by: Barno1 | October 14, 2009 3:20 PM

Will Barno be at the game?

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 14, 2009 3:32 PM

Yes

Posted by: Barno1 | October 14, 2009 5:14 PM

Will barno be getting all of his friends to come to the game so fans of the opposing team can't get seats?

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 14, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I will try.

Fushezzi, JPfterps, epostelle you barnos in for MNF?


Posted by: Barno1 | October 14, 2009 9:05 PM
==========================

Wow, I meant actual friends, not internet buddies. Interesting that your initial response was to ask internet friends.

To borrow a scene from The Simpsons:

Hibbert: My prognosis -- or is it diagnosis? Whichever. You need to avoid stress. What kind of work do you do?

Comic Book Guy: I run a comic book store.

Hibbert: Oh, dear Lord! We call that profession, "the widow- maker." Or we would, if any of the proprietors were married. You should close down the store for a while.

Comic Book Guy: But I'd lose all my business to Frodo's of Shelbyville.

Hibbert: Then get a friend to run it for you. You do have friends, don't you?

Comic Book Guy: Well, the Superfriends.

Hibbert: You should get some friends who aren't printed on paper. (or in this case, the internet)

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 15, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Rodney Harrison.

Yeah I am going to listen to my that had to take the juice to play in the league. There is no question in my mind that Cutler, San, or anyone else wouldn't be doing that much better behind this line.

Posted by: jm220 | October 15, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Am I missing the witch hunt?
Should we have a witch burning party, or something?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | October 15, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Washington should like up seven offensive lineman with Campbell and Sellers in the backfield, Moss and Cooley at receiver. They then run twenty straight times with Sellers just beating down the KC defense line like you would beat a bad cut of meat to tenderize it. Then, I'd run my regular offense.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

We should not forget that Snyder's incompetence has already affected the future. We owe Samuels, Jansen, and Portis millions. Napoleon signed Jansen to a long term, costly contract just last year, just before cutting him. This may actually be a blessing in disguise. With no cap room to sign useless free agents like Fat Albert, the Skins will have to use what few draft picks we may still have at that time.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

The strain is starting to show on RI!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn bears a striking resemblance to Peter North. [From the neck up, people! Jeez]

Posted by: 4-12 | October 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

My suggestion for Sunday.

Everytime Campbell gets sacked, everyone in the entire stadium points to Snyder's box and boos Snyder.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

You guys are still thinking short term. Even if you are right and Todd is better than JC it does us no good whatsoever to win 2-3 more games this year. All it does give us a crappier draft pick. Collins is 36 there is no future with him. He'll be out of the league in 2-3 years. JC gets better every year. We aren't winning the super bowl for at least 2-3 years. Why not let JC play while we build our team? He is cheap and it will save us a draft pick. We can build a dominant team and hope he is good enough.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17
____
I hate to break this to you but these are going to be Campbells last 11 games with the Skins coming up. If they did not extend his contract before this year do you really think they will after this disaster?? Collins has one year left and to me it would be good to see how well he can play. Whether the Skins give Colt a shot next year and/or draft a QB they will need a veteran guy on the roster to play until the new guy is ready or backup if the new guy starts.. Lets see if Collins should be that guy.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Oher is starting for the Ravens and was available when the Skins drafted last year. But OL don't sell jerseys and would never be a first rounder under this regime.

Posted by: mCowans | October 15, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

The 1st "adult-themed" movie I had as a kid was called Hungry, starring Mr. North, as a vampire who liked to have his way with women.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 15, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Hey Yakattack

No Skins fan I spoke to expected much from the Skins because they did not upgrade the O-line. I am not saying that you did not hear blind optimism from some but based on my small sample, very few if any had great expectations for this year.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

No sense in firing Zorn if Vinny doesn't go too.

This O-Line was held together with duct tape from Week 1. Now, minus Samuels, it's an unmitigated disaster. Stephon Heyer will be in the UFL within 2 seasons. But for now, he's our starting left tackle.

FIRE VINNY!
FIRE VINNY!
FIRE VINNY!

Posted by: drischord | October 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I was just thinking about what to do with Vinny why not keep him as VP, but get a team President/GM. As VP, Vinny can be put in charge of "communications", which would give him time for his radio show, allow him to help in the developing of scouting reports and comminicate the questions ownership has to the rest of the office?

If Snyder likes him, why not let Vinny become a condowit between the real FO operations and the CEO.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 15, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I hate to break this to you but these are going to be Campbells last 11 games with the Skins coming up. If they did not extend his contract before this year do you really think they will after this disaster?? Collins has one year left and to me it would be good to see how well he can play. Whether the Skins give Colt a shot next year and/or draft a QB they will need a veteran guy on the roster to play until the new guy is ready or backup if the new guy starts.. Lets see if Collins should be that guy.

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM

This allows DC to address the O line deficiencies w/ the 2010 picks and win at he same time. Woohoo, Full coverage! Colt vs. Collins next preseason: may the best man win.

Posted by: Realness1 | October 15, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I THINK vINNY SHOULD BE ASKING ME IF i'D LIKE AN APPLE PIE WITH MY BIG MAC

Posted by: scottmando | October 15, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

From the Times:

It's cold and nasty in Ashburn, but the Redskins are on the field.It's cold and nasty in Ashburn, but the Redskins are on the field. ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 12:10 PM

And here I thought "cold day in hell" was just an expression ...

Seriously, I just found out I'm going to the game on Sunday! Wooo hoooo! Skins are UNDEFEATED at home. GO SKINS!

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

sovine08/other Todd Collins worshipers read this slowly so it can sink in.
Todd Collins is at best a short term answer. He is 38 and at best would lead this team to 8-8. His trade stock will never rise because of his age and winning a couple more games only moves you further away from elite talent in the draft.
The further down we move in the draft the more likely it is that Dan/Vinny will have to package picks to move up.
If Campbell plays well than his trade stock goes up and we can get higher picks for him. If you bench him now for the season you will be killing his trade value.
In summary give Campbell the season. With the current state of the team it doesn't matter who walks out their to play QB.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 15, 2009 2:09 PM

First of all, I don’t think any of us up here are worshipping the guy. Most of us calling for him to play just want to see what he can do. I’ll say it slowly:
Just
want
to
see
what
he
can do.
I don’t even necessarily want to see him in any more than one game, unless he absolutely lights it up. If he lights it up, the team can start to get better in Zorn’s system. If he sucks, no biggie, put JC back in and we could know that the system is bad, not just the QB. Again, none of us “worshippers” are saying TC is a savior or would take the Skins to the playoffs. We just want him to get into a game to see what would happen. Many people are saying the same thing about Alridge; put him in as a “change of pace to see what he can do”. Why is it so different?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Even the bad teams that we have played can gameplan if they know what it is that you are doing. The Skins don't fool anyone. Wouldn't you think that against teams that are down and out like the Rams, Lions, Panthers, and now the Chiefs that this would be the time to try new things and get creative. Teams with bad luck are the perfect guinea pigs to try this stuff out on. Swap personel, activate younger, fresher guys. We can't try this against New Orleans, NYG, Philly, Atl, Den. I thought we hired Zorn to be an innovative mind who was aggressive and tried new things. He is as vanilla as it gets. At this point we are one of those teams now. We gotta have a desperation type game plan. Who knows we may break 20 this time.

Posted by: FedorEm

That's a great idea, but Zorn seems to get more conservative the worse they play. In the last game he said he scratched several plays because of who was on the offensive line and I suspect he will do the same. I hope that he has some new stuff to compensate, but I doubt it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I hate to break this to you but these are going to be Campbells last 11 games with the Skins coming up. If they did not extend his contract before this year do you really think they will after this disaster?? Collins has one year left and to me it would be good to see how well he can play. Whether the Skins give Colt a shot next year and/or draft a QB they will need a veteran guy on the roster to play until the new guy is ready or backup if the new guy starts.. Lets see if Collins should be that guy.


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

I hate to break this to you but they can franchise JC for a 1st rounder. If someone takes it then awesome we'll draft a new QB then. If not he's back here again next year. They would be stupid not to. You don't buy high and sell low. They will most likely have 2 guys they can franchise and 2 franchise tags. Why wouldn't they use them?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

My suggestion for Sunday.

Everytime Campbell gets sacked, everyone in the entire stadium points to Snyder's box and boos Snyder.

Posted by: zcezcest1
---------------------------

+1

Posted by: The_Spear | October 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

My suggestion for Sunday.

Everytime Campbell gets sacked, everyone in the entire stadium points to Snyder's box and boos Snyder.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM

My suggestion for Sunday ... everytime someone says "season starts now!", SHOTS! [This does not apply for our studio audience, only for those playing at home.] Word on the street (some borough north of here) says you will be wAsTEd by haLf tIMe.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

My suggestion for Sunday.

Everytime Campbell gets sacked, everyone in the entire stadium points to Snyder's box and boos Snyder.

Posted by: zcezcest1
---------------------------

Better idea....

for the rest of the season everytime Campbell gets sacked take a shot. By 1/2 time won't care that snyder has ruined our team.

Posted by: Buckleycj | October 15, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

If I'm Snyder and I wanbt to make changes without throwing everything into a tizzy, I hire Holmgren as team president. Have Cerrato report to Holmgren or fire Vinny.

Holmgren can certainly mentor Zorn, if Danny is reluctant to fire him.

Holmgren can assess needs and see what is and isn't happening (ala Lewis). Holmgren was so-so as a GM. But ... he was trying to be a GM and coach and that pretty much never works.

The Skins have done OK in getting talent in draft picks, which means the ability to evaluate players isn't broken.

There needs to be a better balance in assessing team needs and strategies. That part is broken.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Fantasy Question.... Which trade is better... Chris Johnson and Romo, for Brady and Houshmanzedeh, or Chris Johnson and Earl Bennett for Santana and Reggie Bush?

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I think it's funny that saying Collins might be a better option than Campbell = you're a Collins lover.

I think they are both back up caliber QBs. I just think Collins plays the position with more awareness and anticipation.

Neither one of them should be on this football team next year.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Everytime Campbell gets sacked, everyone in the entire stadium points to Snyder's box and boos Snyder.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 15, 2009 2:22 PM

Why wait for Campbell to get sacked? Why not right after the Star Spangled Banner?

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

sovine08/other Todd Collins worshipers read this slowly so it can sink in.
Todd Collins is at best a short term answer. He is 38 and at best would lead this team to 8-8. His trade stock will never rise because of his age and winning a couple more games only moves you further away from elite talent in the draft.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
____
Yeah and right now we have a short term problem.. how to win NOW!!! Off seasons are for long term answers. And 8-8?? The easy part of the schedule is almost over.. if Collins can go 8-8 with who is coming up, with this team, he should be elected mayor of D.C. Besides Campbell is gone next year so wouldn't it be good to know how well Collins can play outside of Saunders system to see if he at least should stay?

If Campbell plays well than his trade stock goes up and we can get higher picks for him. If you bench him now for the season you will be killing his trade value.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
____
Your assuming Campbell plays better.. again the tougher teams are coming so why would we think he would pay better. The question is how does it affect his trade value if he plays worse.. or gets injured??

In summary give Campbell the season. With the current state of the team it doesn't matter who walks out their to play QB.
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
_____
That's not a reason to keep Campbell QB. If the Skins will be no worse than play Collins.. at least this way there is a chance the Skins will be better.. I mean wouldn't that be something good for the team to know???

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Zorn deserves a shot with at least a decent OL.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 15, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Maybe so, but we all know that he's gone after this year, maybe even before then.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Fantasy Question.... Which trade is better... Chris Johnson and Romo, for Brady and Houshmanzedeh, or Chris Johnson and Earl Bennett for Santana and Reggie Bush?

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

________________

Both of those trades suck for the person giving away Chris Johnson.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Snyder as a short Vader?

How about Dan Snyder as Rick Moranis' Spaceballs Vader?

Posted by: hithere1

Makes sense considering that Snyder has had the organization operating at ludicrous speed for years.

Posted by: Predator48 | October 15, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Don't know about you guys but about 1% of me has secretly rooted for a total colapse....loose this weekend and my perverse dream will be realized....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 15, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

thanks for all the hard work jason. no posts since 730 am. just do one post a day linking to other people's interesting articles. mayor of what exactly?

Posted by: goose33 | October 15, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Maybe so, but we all know that he's gone after this year, maybe even before then.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

We all know we're going to ignore the oline again and draft tim tebow.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is a symptom of a much larger problem at Redskins Park that starts with ownership. The front office bungled the search for a head coach when it passed over G. Williams when it wanted to maintain continuity because Snyder has personal issues with him. The only other viable candidates for the job Mariucci and Spagnulo knew better than to come here with Vinny running the front office as Snyder's yes man.

Zorn was hired as O-Coordinator and was not seeking a head coaching job. What person on RI would have turned down a huge promotion from a new employer? I'm sure Zorn had doubts deep down about his ability to be a head coach, but what was he going to say when offered the job?

Snider needs to fire Vinny at the end of the year and hire someone to be GM like a Holmgren or Cowher who will say tell him to stay out of the way. The GM will then hire an experienced coach who will hold the players accountable and won't be operating at a disadvantage to one of his star players who has a relationship with the owner. Lastly, the team needs to cut its ties with a lot of the overpriced, older talent like Portis, Samuels (may retire anyways), Thomas, Griffin, Smoot, Rabach, etc. and move on with youth.

For Redskin fans, it's time to face it that this team needs a major rebuilding like it did after the Gibbs 1.0 regime ended and we were left with an old team. It took 3 painful years before the team was even competitive under Norv Turner with a real GM like Casserly running the show.

Posted by: wizfan89 | October 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Fantasy Question.... Which trade is better... Chris Johnson and Romo, for Brady and Houshmanzedeh, or Chris Johnson and Earl Bennett for Santana and Reggie Bush?

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 2:36 PM


is romo on your team, or (alternatively) are why you considering a trade to acquire him?

in either scenario, the answer is to kill yourself now.

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | October 15, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

sween, I imagine mrs. sween must be thrilled at the news. Have a terrific Sunday morning and afternoon with the kids, dear!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

If the Skins will be no worse than play Collins.. at least this way there is a chance the Skins will be better.. I mean wouldn't that be something good for the team to know???


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

There is no chance that the 'Skins will be better if they play Collins. Putting aside the issue of Collins' inadequate arm strength, the team will need Campbell's superior mobility now that a previously leaky line has gotten even worse with Samuels' injury.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I got CJ, DeAngelo Williams, and Ronnie Brown. But thats it. No WR's. I figured I could get 2 decent dudes for 1 guy. But I may just stick with what I got.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 15, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

My wife just tipped me to this story. Sad. And part of the reason I won't get a flu shot.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/health/Redskins_Ambassador_Has_Serious_Health_Problems_After_Flu_Shot_Washington_DC.html

Posted by: freakzilla | October 15, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

There is no chance that the 'Skins will be better if they play Collins. Putting aside the issue of Collins' inadequate arm strength, the team will need Campbell's superior mobility now that a previously leaky line has gotten even worse with Samuels' injury.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

_________________

Campbell's mobility is overrated when you consider one of his biggest issues is he doesn't make quick decisions or get rid of the ball quickly. He holds on to the ball too long and that cancels out any mobility advantage he has.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I hate to break this to you but they can franchise JC for a 1st rounder. If someone takes it then awesome we'll draft a new QB then. If not he's back here again next year.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17
______
What??? Putting a franchise tag on a player means he must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current (or previous according to type of franchise) year. Do you have any idea what it would cost the Skins to pay Campbell.. a guy they don't want... the average of the top five salaries at QB??? No one will offer a first rounder so they would be stuck paying Campbell a boat load of money.. and I thought you wanted to sign good OLmen.. where would that money come from if it's all going to Campbell??

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I like the idea of pointing to Snyder's box and booing. I am going to do it from Germantown. Seriously, it is a great idea. It will be seen on every recap show on TV accompanied by suitable remarks from the talking head.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Quite frankly everone from snyder to zorn has a hand in this mess! Snyder might not be the most football smart owner in football, but like Bruce Smith stated " He puts his money where his mouth is, he wants to win." Snyders main problem is Vinny Cerrato! This is the guy that treats this team like a fantasy football leauge more so than Snyder. The 2008 draft is the best example. Trading down was a good move to get some youth on this team, but he was completly lost as what to do with the picks. The 3 top 2nd round picks were wasted on essentially the same position. We did need a big reciever so taking one with a 2nd round was smart but it goes to show they were unsure of the pick by taking 2 in the 2nd round. Thomas had one good year in college and Kelly had injury issues. Selecting Fred Davis was just plain stupid from the get go. We have a Pro Bowler in Chris Cooley and Yoder is more than capable backup. We should have selected young Offensive lineman with 2 of those picks. We even drafted a punter in th 6th round, if we wanted another tight end there are plenty of capable nfl caliber backup tight ends in the 6th round of a draft. Zorns major blame is shaking up the entire offensive playbook when he took this job. He should have taken a look at the Al Saunders experiment in 2006. If you look at the sucessful head coaches in this leauge they build their game plan around the personel that they have to work with. Zorn tried the opposite. This is not a West Coast team. Gibbs put together this team as being quite the opposite starting with Campbell. Campbell would have flourished in a Gibbs system because he has Gibbs qualities: Strong Arm, Great in a pocket and wont lose a game by taking risky chances. Capmbell is frankly too slow with his decision making and too erratic in a west coast system. Say what you want about Santana Moss but he should be given major kudos for his production in a West Coast Scheme. He is another Gibbs player to stretch the field, not run 10 yard routes. Maybe Zorn should have spent a little more time adjusting his scheme to his talented offense instead of throwing beach balls at campbell

Posted by: mitchellb75 | October 15, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I hate to break this to you but they can franchise JC for a 1st rounder. If someone takes it then awesome we'll draft a new QB then. If not he's back here again next year. They would be stupid not to. You don't buy high and sell low. They will most likely have 2 guys they can franchise and 2 franchise tags. Why wouldn't they use them?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

This is a joke, right?

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Finally.....a......beep......beep

Posted by: 4-12 | October 15, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

What??? Putting a franchise tag on a player means he must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current (or previous according to type of franchise) year. Do you have any idea what it would cost the Skins to pay Campbell.. a guy they don't want... the average of the top five salaries at QB??? No one will offer a first rounder so they would be stuck paying Campbell a boat load of money.. and I thought you wanted to sign good OLmen.. where would that money come from if it's all going to Campbell??


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

If there's no cap then what does it matter? He's only around for 1 year.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe JC is a major part of the offensive problem but Collins might be the best QB to work behind this depleted O-line. They will be forced to use quick reads on short passes in the face of lots of blitzes. Sure Collins can't go downfield but neither will JC with this line.

Posted by: SackMan | October 15, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Blame lies at Vinny's feet...example I think of is his draft board. He takes players were he has them rated on his big board and not position. He better rethink that when he drafts nothing but O line next april......clowns vinny and dan think they are smarter then us all and they deserve to lose and the embarressment that comes with it. AGAIN PEOPLE......LISTEN UP...No Dungy, cowher, shannahan, holmgren or Bellick are coming to coach this team and work for this management...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN......Spags turned us down for the rams for chrisakes, that tells you all you need to know right there....

Posted by: klangley69 | October 15, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Start hoarding draft picks now! Trade deadline is Tuesday. Blow this mutha up!

Posted by: fzone | October 15, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

If there's no cap then what does it matter? He's only around for 1 year.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17
______
If he will only be around for one year than he's not the long term answer is he?? And cap or no cap why spend millions (top 5 QB money) for a guy on the bench?? Better not to franchise and get what you can get.. a second rounder or less

Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

What??? Putting a franchise tag on a player means he must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current (or previous according to type of franchise) year. Do you have any idea what it would cost the Skins to pay Campbell.. a guy they don't want... the average of the top five salaries at QB??? No one will offer a first rounder so they would be stuck paying Campbell a boat load of money.. and I thought you wanted to sign good OLmen.. where would that money come from if it's all going to Campbell??


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

If there's no cap then what does it matter? He's only around for 1 year.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 15, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

That its an uncapped year doesn't change the fact that you'd be paying millions and millions of dollars to a player you don't want and who doesn't deserve it. Snyder spent the last offseason trying to dump Cambell; please don't tell me you really think that he might (or should) pay 8-10 million dollars (or whatever the franchise figure is for QBs) to bring him back.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

If he will only be around for one year than he's not the long term answer is he?? And cap or no cap why spend millions (top 5 QB money) for a guy on the bench?? Better not to franchise and get what you can get.. a second rounder or less


Posted by: sovine08 | October 15, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

The team isn't going to get anything for JC. If things continue as they are going (or get worse, which, unfortunately, I think they will), they just won't resign him after this season, and he'll go to another team as a free agent.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

He holds on to the ball too long and that cancels out any mobility advantage he has.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Except that he has made, and will probably continue to make, plays with his legs. Collins can't.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

There is not enough space here to list all the QB's who either won or QB'd good offenses that were NOT mobile, but here are a few.
Kenny Stabler, Phil Simms, Joe Namath, Billy Kilmer, Sonny Jurgensen, Joe Montana...
Give Collins a shot. The Skins are on their way to a 2-14 record so give ANYBODY a shot.

Posted by: chopin224 | October 15, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

rabach is the least of the worries..rabach is too weak and slow he gets blown up by bigger and younger DT'S. He definitely needs to be replaced, the good news is mongtgomery, or the FA I think his name is williams are centers by trade younger and bigger. Don't look for the so-called management to draft any o-linemen even if they do they will not be any good because the legendary GM v. cerrato will choose them.

Posted by: wathu19 | October 15, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Jason,

Maybe things are so strained in Ashburn, because staffers, like most of us, are finally being forced to give up all hope for EVER having a good team as long as Snyder owns the team.

His arrogance prevents him from admitting his mistakes and no one can't learn if they don't own up to their mistakes.

If Gibbs and his staff couldn't overcome Snyderatto's defficiencies, who can and who, in their right mind, would want to try?

Posted by: Redskinrex | October 15, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Arrrgh! I almost made it through two days with semi-positive articles from the Post, which is clearly why Jason had to go back to the drawing board with this one.

Maybe there would be less "strain" around Redskins Park if the media would get off of Zorn's jock and allow him to prepare his team to prepare for a game.

If things don't work out with the Post - there is always TMZ.

Posted by: rob10873 | October 16, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

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