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Tryon More at Ease in Bigger Role

For the last couple of weeks, I've been hearing that second-year cornerback Justin Tryon has been making strides in practice.

Tryon struggled when the coaches gave him opportunities in preseason games, and was burned repeatedly in coverage in the 2008 preseason as a rookie. But with nickel corner Fred Smoot slowed by a rib injury recently, Tryon has taken more reps at nickel in practice.

Secondary coach Jerry Gray often has told me Tryon is a player, and Gray knows something about playing corner in this league, so I've been waiting to see Tryon make several plays in a game. My wait ended in Sunday's 16-13 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at FedEx Field.

The Redskins changed things up in the secondary against Tampa and Tryon benefited. Instead of moving cornerback DeAngelo Hall into the slot on third down, as had been their practice in the first three games, the Redskins left Hall and Carlos Rogers on Tampa Bay's outside receivers and put Tryon in the slot.

Tryon finished with four tackles, including three unassisted, and he had a sack on a corner blitz. It was only one game - but it was a start for Tryon.

"Well, you know, we try certain things," Gray said. "We tried D. Hall there, we tried other people. But what I notice, just in my career as a coach, [is] when you got a real quick guy in the slot, he can do a bunch of stuff. He can make changes, he can do those things. He's probably our quickest guy.

"Now, I think he's grown up to say he understands, 'You know what? I deserve to be out in the nickel. I deserve to be doing these things.' And he was. Two weeks ago, when Fred was injured, that gave us a chance to put him in there. And it matched up good for us because they [the Buccaneers] had their best receivers outside and they brought their third receiver inside, so it wasn't like they were trying to match him up. So it helped out for us."

The plan, from what I've been told, is for Tryon to replace Smoot as the nickel corner next season. At the very least, Tryon's performance against the Buccaneers seemed to indicate he is becoming more comfortable with taking on a bigger role.

Let's Chat

Two Posties will be chatting today: Cindy Boren at 11:30 and Mike Wilbon at 1:15 (or thereabouts; Wilbon time is bendy).

Over at the Bog ...

Among the Redskins, Dan Steinberg writes that there was a sense that they were going to win Sunday.

By Jason Reid  |  October 5, 2009; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Moss Joins Elite Company with TD (Updated)
Next: Predict Redskins-Panthers Result

Comments

first to say, GO JUNKIES!!!! they speak truth!!!

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 6:22 AM | Report abuse

truth be told- danny boy sucks. sucks bad. i love the win, but c'mon, how much better are we? every play our wr's were blanketed, portis had a good game, but tripped over the blue scrimmage line too often. bucs are horrible and we turn this into a meaningful game? jz is still in over his head, ol gets CREDIT for being called questionable, and the d struggles to make an impact.

jc def had his worst game, but easy to see he had nothing to work with again....

we have a chance to be the worst 4-2 team in nfl history. we blew the chance to be the worst 5-1 team last week- and these were gifts.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 6:31 AM | Report abuse

"Tryon finished with four tackles, including three unassisted, and he had a sack on a corner blitz. It was only one game - but it was a start for Tryon."--RI

While we're being optimistic, note how the OLine blocked so much better in the second half.

This will NEVER be an elite line as currently constituted and saddled with zone blocking schemes, BUT..

OLINES get better when they've established a cohesiveness. And with two games under Rino's belt, and Dock easing back into the squad, that appeared to occur in the second half.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some more straws that need grasping at....

Posted by: TheCork | October 5, 2009 6:39 AM | Report abuse

I must agree, while I think that Zorn is a moron (witness the empty backfield spread formation call inside of 3 minutes when you have a lead and are trying to milk the clock) but I think the problem with this team is the mediocrity of JC.

Zjfr2

It’s not an either/or proposition. Zorn remains arguably the worst play designer slash play caller in the NFL and Campbell is still mediocre. Actually inconsistent is the better term. One play he’ll put a laser into Cooley’s breadbasket, the nest he’ll throw into double coverage for an int.

Posted by: TheCork | October 5, 2009 6:41 AM | Report abuse

we have beat the two worteams in football by a combined 5 points

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 7:05 AM | Report abuse

HOw dare you call JC17 inaccurate. You show me another QB in the league that can drill the ball off the umpires head while on the move. He got mad skillz, son!

Posted by: Hail2theChief | October 5, 2009 7:07 AM | Report abuse

It’s not an either/or proposition. Zorn remains arguably the worst play designer slash play caller in the NFL and Campbell is still mediocre. Actually inconsistent is the better term. One play he’ll put a laser into Cooley’s breadbasket, the nest he’ll throw into double coverage for an int.


Posted by: TheCork | October 5, 2009 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Sounds like Romo. Both have been in this league long enough to show some kind of consistancy. I've been a supporter of Campbell but he still locks onto receivers, and rarely pumps the ball. Total wins of the teams the Cowboys and skins have beaten.......ZERO.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | October 5, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

Zorn remains arguably the worst play designer slash play caller in the NFL and Campbell is still mediocre.

Posted by: TheCork | October 5, 2009 6:41 AM |

If what you say is true then explain the 6-1 skein at the beginning of 2008 after sucking hard in the opener against the Giants. And it was against some pretty pretty pretty good teams - Dallas, Philly, etc. You can say he was riding on the back of Port-o-let but that just begs the Q. If Z has the weaps he can be a formidable foe. Unfortunately, just as in his salad days with the Seahawks, he doesn't have the weaps to get the job done. When teams put the clamps on Moss and Cooley you are left with nada. These days Port-o-let isn't the runner he once was.

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

Do we need Heyer cut?
Would we gain something by losing Betts?
Will we succeed if we just keep Tryon?
Should gentlemen prefer Haynesworth at DT?
Should Campbell keep slinging the rock like a Rhinestone Cowboy?
Will watching too much Zorn give you hairy palms?

Stay tuned, we should get the answer to these and many other questions in the coming days.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 5, 2009 7:21 AM | Report abuse

After winning our 13U tournament yesterday my group of 11 year old girls asked me what I was going to do. I said I was going home to watch the Skins game, to which they replyed why they stink.

Unfortunatley they are right this team basically sucks from JC on, I woudn't mind so much if they actually played with heart but they don't.

I will watch out the season, and then this team needs to be blown up from the GM down.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 7:43 AM | Report abuse

Observations:

1. Overall a great effort by the D, but our run D is struggling. How are teams getting by AH and CG/CG? And where are the LBs in the gaps?

2. Not sure what to make of Landry. Sometimes he’s just flying around missing tackles and out of position. Very undisciplined.

3. Where are Kelly, Thomas and Davis? We have to make a better effort to get them the ball early, even if it’s just 8 yard hooks or WR screens.

4. We need to kill the long fade to Kelly down the sideline. Campbell cannot make that throw. Why don’t we try a deep post to Kelly instead?

5. We never use the deep middle of the field for patterns.

6. Cooley and Portis were excellent.

7. ARE sucks on punt returns and Cartwright is average on KR. Try Aldridge ad Thomas for a spark.

8. Tampa must have really been confusing Campbell with alignments. He looked lost. He really struggles if the first option isn’t there.

9. Not sure what to make of the Carolina game. They have a great back in Williams and a great receiver in Smith. We need to play tough disciplined run D, and blanket Deangelo Hall on Smith with Moore or Landry over the top for the whole game and make Muhammad beat Rogers.

Posted by: quinn3 | October 5, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

I will watch out the season, and then this team needs to be blown up from the GM down.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 7:43 AM | Report abuse

-------------------------------------------
....from the owner down.......

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

For all of those fans who were loving on Campbell last week, I have one question: how do you love him now?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 5, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

....from the owner down.......

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 7:48 AM |

The owners not going anywhere so there is no point in even thinking about it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 7:51 AM | Report abuse

The owners not going anywhere so there is no point in even thinking about it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 7:51 AM | Report abuse

---------------------------------------


true! but that's what the team needs!

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 7:56 AM | Report abuse

handsoffdannyboy.com? or wemisshavingagoodowner.com? what about blameitonthefansforbooing.net? or catchematthegateforwantingtowearbagsontheirheads.org?

let the propaganda from ashburn begin.... i guess it has.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Campbell's comments to Kelly Johnson after the game did not sound like a confident QB. After hearing that NFL Films audio clip of Zorn demeaning JC on the sidelines, I can see why.
And whoever is responsible for last year's draft decision's, should be fired! Who's our (real)GM?

Posted by: Max231 | October 5, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

true! but that's what the team needs!

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 7:56 AM |

They need the owner to change his ways not go away. Would you rather a cheap as owner who wont spend. He needs to hire a GM and then give him what he wants, and spend on the players he tells him to.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

controlthemedia.com no one will say bad stuff about me, no one!!!!!!!!!!!!!
danny boy, danny boy...

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

And whoever is responsible for last year's draft decision's, should be fired! Who's our (real)GM?


Posted by: Max231 | October 5, 2009 8:01 AM |

Good question let me see if I can give it a shot.

I would say Snyder makes the call on the big name FA's.

Vinny probably handles the draft except for the first pick, maybe the second as well.

Vinny also gets the FA's that are more team guys.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

i'd rather have an owner not at war with his fans. give him all the credit you want for spending money- it's ours anyway.

bs- on that anymore! spending ain't trying, a new sticker i guess, but it's turned into a sorry excuse for a little rich boy.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

"...this team needs to be blown up from the GM down."


The proper expression is 'roster purge'.

Another is 'roster turnover'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

another is actualy devoloping a team. no more "twits" not getting why we are booing....

no (i mean poor) leadership for years!!!!!

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

bs- on that anymore! spending ain't trying, a new sticker i guess, but it's turned into a sorry excuse for a little rich boy.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:06 AM |

Don't be jealous because Snyder was able to make a ton of money at an early age.

Little rich boy would suggest he got his money from his family.

Trust me you can have the best GM in football, but if you have a cheap owner you will not win.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

First things first - it's good to have a win at home. It was necessary for this team.

But it's not like it was anything to write home about. I'm still on the FJZ tip. It amazes me we still have Soup out there. His numbers belie his inability at his position.

It just another week of scating by on numbers that don't mean much.

And imagine that, throw in some misdirection and suddenly there are rushing yards.... wow. whoodathunkit.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 5, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Do we need Heyer cut?
Would we gain something by losing Betts?
Will we succeed if we just keep Tryon?
Should gentlemen prefer Haynesworth at DT?
Should Campbell keep slinging the rock like a Rhinestone Cowboy?
Will watching too much Zorn give you hairy palms?

Stay tuned, we should get the answer to these and many other questions in the coming days.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 5, 2009 7:21 AM | Report abuse

Generally starters do not get cut. If you think that it's even worth asking the question re: 74, then I'm sorry but you know even less than I do about football. I appreciate the witty puns, but honestly this one shouldn't be in the lineup. How about "should the bar be Heyer or lower for Stephon?"?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Don't be jealous because Snyder was able to make a ton of money at an early age.

Little rich boy would suggest he got his money from his family.

Trust me you can have the best GM in football, but if you have a cheap owner you will not win.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 5, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse
-----------------------------------------

really? my "problem with snyder is his money?" c'mon! spending money has becom an excuse for this man. give up on the i'm sorry,i tried my best that my money can give bs.

MANY teams are successful and don't carelessly throw $$ around!

what a crock of crap!!!!!! take away the propaganda and see the criticism!

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

redskinhead

"For all of those fans who were loving on Campbell last week, I have one question: how do you love him now?"

In Campbell's defense, I will say Tampa's corners--Ronde Barber and Aqib Talib--are stellar and were complemented by the 2-deep shell coverage the buc defense employed.

Beyond that, I will beat the old drum:

Put Campbell on an 8-game leash.

I started three games ago.

That means that if the redskins don't have a more efficient offense sometime around the Kansas City game, Campbell should be on the pine after the bye week.

So this means during the bye, the skins should really take a serious look at giving Collins a shot at quarterback.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

"...this team needs to be blown up from the GM down."

The proper expression is 'roster purge'.

Another is 'roster turnover'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:08 AM |

Ahem.

"Roster purge" = nuking players

"blown up from the GM on down" = nuking FO, coaches, players

You need to stop and think your post through before you hit the submit button.

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

So this means during the bye, the skins should really take a serious look at giving Collins a shot at quarterback.

----------------------------------------

collins will do no better with this oline and wr's that can't get open.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

and btw, i don't know if collins can make that td throw to moss

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

My initial thougths from yesterday for me:

1) Portis looked good. Considering the calf/ankle injuries and the work in progress that is the O-line, really good. I am optimistic that he could still have a solid if unspectacular (e.g., 1,100 yards, 5-7 TDs) season. GO 26.
2) O-line is improving. Yes, they were horrible in the first series, but after that only gave up one sack and helped us grind out a respectable 125 yards on the ground. I'm encouraged that the young right side might be starting to gel, Dock/Samuels are solid, and Raybach is still adequate (he had a nice pancake block on a 3rd quarter CP scamper).
3) Defense is also improving. We need to get more pressure but Orakpo is only scratching the surface of his talent, 92 is a force in the middle, and thank God for 59. Secondary made some plays although 22 and 30 still need to pick it up- they are underachieving.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

This offense has taken exactly ZERO steps forward since 2008, in fact is actually regressing, as there is no such thing as true stagnancy. Whether that falls on JZ, or JC, I'm not sure. Yes they won yesterday, hooray, once again underwhelming performances were turned in. They refuse to break from the portis, portis moss/cooley mold they've created. What happened to ARE, he turns in a great game against the Giants, and then nothing since then. Didn't catch ONE pass yesterday. Not one. Last week DT/MK/FD all caught a pass within 5 minutes of the start of the game, and since then BUPKUS. Why?? Who on that sideline doesn't understand that if you make the other team HAVE TO cover these guys, then it makes it HARDER for them to cover MOSS/COOLEY with 2-3 guys. Is that so friggin hard?? The play calling is absolutely ATROCIOUS. Great, so they won, and Lord knows that a win is a win, so once again we fall into the GRIND PORTIS to a nub, and when he breaks down in the 2nd half of the season, the team is left with what exactly. There is no forward progress with this team, there is no "next step", no one is moving forward, we keep doing the same things over and over and over, and want to pass this off as progress. Great, portis had an ok day, but guess what, the passing game still sucks, and they still stacked 8 guys in the box. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Don't get me started on JZ giving everyone the day off today. Galactically stupid in its very essence. The last thing they need to do is not practice.

Un-friggin believable......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

4) JC showed me a lot yesterday. Not all good by any stretch - two of those picks were bad throws into double coverage - but I actually like that he is starting to be more decisive. 2 TDs and 3 INTs is actually not a line I'm upset to see; the fact he has extremely low INT #'s in his career (until yesterday) means he doesn't take enough shots down field, that's he's too timid. I'd rather see him throw an INT 50 yds downfield than tapdance like a jitterbug in the pocket for 5 seconds, get sacked/stripped; the latter has happened more times (3) than the former (1). Becoming more decisive is progress; making overall better decisions would be nice to see next. Then maybe we'll see Zorn open up the playbook even more like yestreday (although the sideline go route on 3rd and 1 inside TB territory was mystifying)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

"You need to stop and think your post through before you hit the submit button."


I do believe I thought my post through before I submitted it.

Perhaps you are the one who supports maintaining a roster of underachieving overpaid professional redskin football players.

Why don't you think your way through that.


Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

My initial thougths from yesterday for me:

1) Portis looked good. Considering the calf/ankle injuries and the work in progress that is the O-line, really good. I am optimistic that he could still have a solid if unspectacular (e.g., 1,100 yards, 5-7 TDs) season. GO 26.
2) O-line is improving. Yes, they were horrible in the first series, but after that only gave up one sack and helped us grind out a respectable 125 yards on the ground. I'm encouraged that the young right side might be starting to gel, Dock/Samuels are solid, and Raybach is still adequate (he had a nice pancake block on a 3rd quarter CP scamper).
3) Defense is also improving. We need to get more pressure but Orakpo is only scratching the surface of his talent, 92 is a force in the middle, and thank God for 59. Secondary made some plays although 22 and 30 still need to pick it up- they are underachieving.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

--------------------------------

don't disagree on many n your points. and i do like getting a win no matter how.

1-it was cp's best game in a while and he may have actually shoe=wed heart. but burst, i'm still not sure. at least not beyond 10 yards.
2-oline didn't give much push or protection. better but not yet good.
3-our d is really not anywhere where we think it is. ll has had a horrible year so far, our corners have been horrible. we're playing orakpo out of position, jarmon is the only d end i've noticed, haynesworth has been good when on the field, but really how many people get carted off only to return?

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

There is no forward progress with this team, there is no "next step", no one is moving forward, we keep doing the same things over and over and over, and want to pass this off as progress.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:27 AM |

As a great thinker named Socrates once said, "when you reach the limit, you reach the limit".

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

cancunlizzard

"...and btw, i don't know if collins can make that td throw to moss..."

Weak arm v. strong arm...?

I'd rather see a weak-armed guy make nice 'touch' passes all over the field, than watch a guy with a cannon-arm overthrow, underthrow, throw a bullet that pulls a guy off stride, and not hit the 'checkdown' guy in a spot where he can be a threat.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

As a great thinker named Socrates once said, "when you reach the limit, you reach the limit".

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse
-------------------------------------------

and the ceiling is set by those at the top? - cancunlizzard- 2009

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

preach it, Moe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 5, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1 for those reasons, JZ will be gone at the end of the year unless by some miracle the team gets to the playoffs and win a game. This offense hasn't progressed since the 8th game of last year. I don't understand why they don't make some adjustment either in personnel, design, play caller.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"There is no forward progress with this team, there is no "next step", no one is moving forward, we keep doing the same things over and over and over, and want to pass this off as progress."

Amen.

A win is a win, but progress would be dominating the weak-sisters at the front end of the redskin schedule.

Trust me when I say that the saints, iggles, cowboys, chargers, broncos, jints, falcons will show this team for all that it is.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather see a weak-armed guy make nice 'touch' passes all over the field, than watch a guy with a cannon-arm overthrow, underthrow, throw a bullet that pulls a guy off stride, and not hit the 'checkdown' guy in a spot where he can be a threat.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

-----------------------------------------

you're right that collins will prob make a few more completions than jc. but my point is that big one..... collins won't do it. not at his stage of his career. jc wasn't what we wanted yesterday, and we are all looking for something to be the answer. unfortunately jc isn't all of it. i'd be an easy fix if it was- just like spending more money- if that was it.

he has no solid ol, no solid wr group. even sanchez is only excelling with one of those and he has a running game to go along with him..... we don't

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

B-Town:

Don't you think it's mainly Campbell's fault for not getting the DT/FD/MK involved. I used to think he would really improve this year but, it's so vexing to see him stare down his first two options and then try and jam it in to double coverage anyway.

I mean Zorn can only do so much, do other coaches call plays that highlight their #3/4 receivers, or are their QB's just able to make better reads?

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | October 5, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

notorious, how did he show you a lot, this is the same crap we've been seeing for a couple of years now....If I'm the panthers defense I know to roll a safety over the top of moss, and stack 8-9 in the box. Game. Over. There is no plan b, there is no counter move. JC goes through his progressions as follows:

Moss
Cooley
Pray

Sorry, but its time for Collins...jc isn't coming back next year so whats the point. He is what he is, and that is a mediocre at best qb. Focus on 'at best'...we've seen him here for what 2 1/2 years now, and he's under .500 during that time...sorry, but this offense has done NOTHING with him at the helm.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps you are the one who supports maintaining a roster of underachieving overpaid professional redskin football players.

Why don't you think your way through that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:32 AM |

Sigh. You didn't think this post through either. Nobody said anything about "maintaining a roster of underachieving ...". Your posts don't respond to what posters are saying, they respond to what you think they are saying, which is way way off base. When someone says nuke everything from the GM on down and you say they should have said "roster purge", roster purge would only have covered part of what they said should have been nuked. Don't you see that?

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

the line play on both sides of the ball is really worrisome. the holes are not opening up very often on offense, and cadillac was bursting past haynesworth and company all day.

also, it pains me to watch CP tripping all over himself every time he gets 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. i too would like to see landry stop whiffing on his big hits, and see rogers hold on to the sure pick 6!

Posted by: goose33 | October 5, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

There is no forward progress with this team, there is no "next step", no one is moving forward, we keep doing the same things over and over and over, and want to pass this off as progress.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:27 AM |

As a great thinker named Socrates once said, "when you reach the limit, you reach the limit".


Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

THat's the spirit, men!

Agree to disagree I guess. No doubt we've got a ways to go but with our gift of a schedule we have a great opportunity to improve before it starts to get tougher in a few weeks. Don't give up the ship just yet, even though admittedly I wanted to last week...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Ok I am sure I am not the first to post this but - they played 7 in the box. CP still does not look right to me - no 5th gear.

Kelly play like crap. ONE on ONE fade and he jumps out of the defenders way and then misses the football. Now we know there is not a fade to Kelly in the Red zone ugg. Then he get a hold the next drive.

First INT not a real problem because it was 4th and 2 so take the shot.

JC is having some real turnover issues but we can see the good as well. Haters start be telling us "number don't count" or "we won but". 17 no 16 points in one quarter that shows what JC can do. Kelly need to step up.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

offseason, oh it COMPLETLY is JC's fault for not throwin to anyone except for Moss/Cooley. I referenced this yesterday, but remember the Pats game in pre-season, remember that offense?? JC threw the ball to both MK/DT, and guess what, they were tied with one of the best teams in the NFL at halftime. Thats the kind of offense I expect this team to put on the field EVERY week....what happens if Moss goes down? Then its run portis, throw to cooley, punt??

They keep throwing garnish on this, but you can smell the bullcrap from a mile away...They should hold Moss out of practice until JC starts to throw the ball to someone else. He's KILLING his career by doing what he's doing.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I was up here in the first half calling for Campbell to be benched yesterday. He was stinking it up. He made a couple of plays in the 2nd half that won the game for us and definitely played better. That last pick was awful though.
I don't think it will matter much if he gets benched, we're gonna end up 4-12 with him or Collins at the helm.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I have Rogers droping 2 ints this year. Any others?

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"Sorry, but its time for Collins...jc isn't coming back next year so whats the point."


Trudat.

Someone pass the bottle beantown's way.

Campbell is supposed to be earning his extension with ihs play.

Right now, he's earning himself audition time for the Oakland Raiders next spring.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Ok I am sure I am not the first to post this but - they played 7 in the box. CP still does not look right to me - no 5th gear.

Kelly play like crap. ONE on ONE fade and he jumps out of the defenders way and then misses the football. Now we know there is not a fade to Kelly in the Red zone ugg. Then he get a hold the next drive.

First INT not a real problem because it was 4th and 2 so take the shot.

JC is having some real turnover issues but we can see the good as well. Haters start be telling us "number don't count" or "we won but". 17 no 16 points in one quarter that shows what JC can do. Kelly need to step up.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

This is why I want to see Marko Mitchell in there. He already knows how to position himself against a defender. Marko fights for the ball much better than Kelly or Thomas. Kelly and Thomas are only going to make catches when they are wide open. Play Marko Mitchell!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 5, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I was up here in the first half calling for Campbell to be benched yesterday. He was stinking it up. He made a couple of plays in the 2nd half that won the game for us and definitely played better. That last pick was awful though.
I don't think it will matter much if he gets benched, we're gonna end up 4-12 with him or Collins at the helm.

Posted by: Original_etrod

Last pick was bad I agree. But that two "bad" picks in 4 games although there was a pick 6 dropped last week.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I have Rogers droping 2 ints this year. Any others?

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse
----------------------------------------------

isn't that already at a push? if not im in, how much would you like to lose?

sorry, i thought you were gonna take bets- lol!!!! i just re read

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

This is why I want to see Marko Mitchell in there. He already knows how to position himself against a defender. Marko fights for the ball much better than Kelly or Thomas. Kelly and Thomas are only going to make catches when they are wide open. Play Marko Mitchell!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan1

I just worry about Marko's speed. Devin might be a better option but I don't know as much as the coaches. I am for giving some other guys a chance.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"This is why I want to see Marko Mitchell in there"

Why?? Why do you think that JC will throw the ball in his direction? He refuses to throw to MK/DT/FD/ARE, what makes you think that MM is gonna be any different. Don't you get it?? Cooley, or Moss, and NO ONE ELSE

People want to talk about how JC lead a 2nd half comeback, but don't want to talk about the plays that lead to them being down 10-0 at halftime. Like the 10 yard drive the Bucs had the first time they touched the ball.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

isn't that already at a push? if not im in, how much would you like to lose?

sorry, i thought you were gonna take bets- lol!!!! i just re read

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Sounds like the next big thing in Fantasy Football.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

bottom line: if we can't win the next two, we have a top 5 pick to look forward to. if we do, we may be one of the worst 4-2 teams ever......

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 5, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

offseason, oh it COMPLETLY is JC's fault for not throwin to anyone except for Moss/Cooley. I referenced this yesterday, but remember the Pats game in pre-season, remember that offense?? JC threw the ball to both MK/DT, and guess what, they were tied with one of the best teams in the NFL at halftime. Thats the kind of offense I expect this team to put on the field EVERY week....what happens if Moss goes down? Then its run portis, throw to cooley, punt??

They keep throwing garnish on this, but you can smell the bullcrap from a mile away...They should hold Moss out of practice until JC starts to throw the ball to someone else. He's KILLING his career by doing what he's doing.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Beantown, nto sure if you were at the game but from my lovely Section 449 nosebleeds, I had a great view of the entire field (and Antietam). I focused on the WR's a lot, and I hate to say it but 11/12 need to learn to run routes, and 82 making nothing happen in the slot. Of course 89 and 47 are his two best friends and I agree 17 needs to improve on his reads...but nobody else was getting open man!

As for Moe's grim prediction of how the latter portion of the season will play out - only time will tell dude, but the fact that we are playing close games every week does NOT mean we are terrible. Terrible teams do not compete. I will give you that we are mediocre at this point, but we actually have the talent (if not inspired play calling/leadership) to be better than that. Some teams (Rams, Bucs, Lions, Browns) have no real chance of sniffing the playoffs (I know the Lions beat us, thanks in advance for reminding me but I'm good). We also played an abyssmal game at NYG and lost by 6. Bad teams would've lost that game by 26. I'm not sold on this team - far from it - and still think Zorn may well need to go. But all I'm saying is all is not lost just yet and we shall see about you pessimistic prognostication.

And with that ramble it's time to amble. Peace peeps.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 5, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Maybe we should just tell CR that every time he drops and INT and angle gets its wings ripped off.

BeantownGreg1 - People also like to talk about JC not getting comeback wins. Whole picture and trends - thats the way to evaluate.

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

the line play on both sides of the ball is really worrisome. the holes are not opening up very often on offense, and cadillac was bursting past haynesworth and company all day.

Posted by: goose33 | October 5, 2009 8:49 AM |

Not having seen the game, I looked at the defense stats and did not see AH's name. I thought he must have been injured or something. But none of the recaps said such. $41 M guaranted and nada stats - no tackles, sacks, forced fumbles, assists. I did look at Game Book and he has a hurry and a pass defended credit. But still ...

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

tubularbells

"Your posts don't respond to what posters are saying, they respond to what you think they are saying, which is way way off base."

Excuse me for being a lil arrogant, sir, but it's not my intention to 'respond to what folks are posting'.

Other than the words of long term posters, I ignore, skim over, and laugh at newbies trying to gain swag by demanding that they be heard.

Most posts have the same general themes:

1. The redskins are an old team populated with young'ns not living up to their draft status.

2. The team has depth issues like a mud puddle on a flat road.

3. The defensive issues can be forgiven as it's carried the team whereas the offense has not.

4. Jason Campbell should be an 8-game leash. I can't see how things would be worse with Collins playing.

5. Marko Mitchell should be given the same opportunity to fail that Malcolm Kelly has had.

6. The old Clinton Portis would've busted a long touchdown run yesterday. But he didn't as now he looks, well, old.

I'm sorry, mr.bells, I' guess I'll stop not responding to what other posters are saying.

'Cuz I think I just said it all.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 5, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Ok lets stop and think about TO in upstate new york not getting the ball - and Big Ds crap receivers.

Now does that not fill you with joy?

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

notorious, I don't buy it, wasn't at the game, didn't even see the game, but you mean to tell me there was not ONE instance of those guys getting open, and I'm calling it BULLCRAP. So what you're telling me that DT/MK haven't been open but for a few times ALL YEAR?? Sorry, this is on JC. He gets the yips, and goes back to the ONLY THING he knows, and that is cooley/moss.

mul, when jc was the reason that they had to 'come-back', I'm not sure this qualifies...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is not a good quarterback. I knew that before the game yesterday but I think we saw how bad he could possibly be in the first half. I'll give him credit. He picked himself up and played pretty well in the second half. Still, look who he is throwing to. Any decent defense is going to figure out that you put two guys on Moss, cover Cooley with a safety and go man to man with everyone else because chances are JC won't throw to them. I would say the other receivers are just terrible but that is not it at all. These guys are getting open but Campbell seems to cross them off his procession list every game. He threw one ball Kelly's way yesterday that was intercepted and then the Kelly show was over. Devin Thomas does not even get a second glance when he is in the game. Fred Davis had one ball thrown his way yesterday and it was a screen that was sniffed out in a hurry. I would like to see Collins play if for no other reason than to find out if the other receivers are that bad, or it is just a quarterback that plays favorites.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 5, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

On the bright side:

Orakpo had 7 tackles, 1 for loss, and a sack.

Through 4 games he's got 13 tackles and 2 sacks.

Not bad for a rook and he looks to be getting better as time goes on - can't say the same for any of the other young players on the team except maybe Horton who inexplicably got benched.

Oh,well. I've always thought the Cobra formation was one of the stronger formations for the Skins, and maybe they'll play more of it w/ LL, CH and Doughty on the field.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

AH had no stats because we only start with 6-7 in the box and then drop the LBs into a soft underneath coverage and then wondering why teams can run down our throat. going against these last 3 QBs we should've brought the house.

Posted by: hcic55 | October 5, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

mul it doesn't actually, I couldn't care less about those teams...I look at this team and i see POTENTIAL, I see UN-REALIZE potential, and that alone pisses me off....not utilizing the assets you have.

Mason rips off an 8 yard run, then gets 1 more carry the rest of the game. Kelly catches an 18 yard pass last week then nothing this week. Davis catches a 13 yard pass last week then they run a RIDICULOUSLY STUPID te screen this week. DT didn't even get a ball in his direction this week, after catching 1 last week.

This offense is pathetic. JC has been at the helm of this offense for going on 2 years now, and its the same old same old....how can you not see that.....

Let me ask this, if/when JC walks this year, do people think he's gonna be a starter somewhere else in this league??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I don't think it will matter much if he gets benched, we're gonna end up 4-12 with him or Collins at the helm.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM |

But with a decent shot at a good replacement QB. You hear a lot about Bradford - hope he fully recovers from his shoulder injury. Then there is Matt Barkley. Carroll says he is better than the San Man. But he is a true freshman so taking him would be like robbing the cradle. But he is mature for his age.

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

He threw one ball Kelly's way yesterday that was intercepted and then the Kelly show was over. Devin Thomas does not even get a second glance when he is in the game. Fred Davis had one ball thrown his way yesterday and it was a screen that was sniffed out in a hurry. I would like to see Collins play if for no other reason than to find out if the other receivers are that bad, or it is just a quarterback that plays favorites.

Posted by: RedSkinHead

Kelly also ran a bad rout on an underneath rout. So that was 2 for 2 on passes his way plus the hold = lack of trust. A lot of passes went to the backs because they were playing quarters D most the game (me thinks).

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

notorious, I don't buy it, wasn't at the game, didn't even see the game, but you mean to tell me there was not ONE instance of those guys getting open, and I'm calling it BULLCRAP. So what you're telling me that DT/MK haven't been open but for a few times ALL YEAR?? Sorry, this is on JC. He gets the yips, and goes back to the ONLY THING he knows, and that is cooley/moss.

mul, when jc was the reason that they had to 'come-back', I'm not sure this qualifies...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse


I'm thinking that the point of getting these big athletic receivers is that they don't necessarily have to be wide open to get them the ball. If they get single coverage, you can put it up there and let them make a play or maybe get a PI call.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I am with Flounder and the others that share the sentiment that really no one is playing well on this team...

What has happened to Landry and where has his tackling abilities gone? He looks awful...beyond the INT Hall doesnt look great either...DB's still playing way to far off the line, on that TD drive in the beginning for TB, they were 8 yards off when the TB had the ball on our 11 yard line, wtf.

Does CLINTON PORTIS WEAR CLEATS???? MK 12 goes up for passes more awkwardly then any other big WR I have ever seen, what has happened to DT11, sure doesnt look like we have any plans for the future with him, ARE was absent and is absolute garbage returning kicks, what with the spin move on the 5 yard line, SUCKS. DT11 could give that a try??

Oh yeah, lets call the TE screen 4 more times in a row, then take out Cooley and do it again with Davis...

AWFUL

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 5, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Let me ask this, if/when JC walks this year, do people think he's gonna be a starter somewhere else in this league??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse


I bet he could win the starting gig in Oakland if they decide to throw in the towel on JaMarcus...but that's about it.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

I wonder how a top level elite NFL QB such as Brady, Brees, Manning etc. would fair on this Skins team given the exact same circumstances JC has to work under. I assume better than JC but certainly not at the level they play now. Yes, Campbell has had numerous games to improve, but how much consistencey has he had to work with over the past three years? The offensive line has been inconsistent, recievers- inconsistent, running game - inconsistent, coaching - inconsistent, special teams - inconsistent, ownership - inconsistent, defense - inconsistent (so far this year at least). If this team cannot get some sort of consistency that last more than two years the results will continue to be, well, inconsistent.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 5, 2009 9:13 AM

Stop making sense - people up here don't want to hear that. Don't you know that JC has an all-star cast around him and He alone is the reason we're not 4-0?

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 5, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Did the broadcast ever say how many seats were filled at Fedex yesterday? From the fox broadcast, I saw a lot of empty seats.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

"Not having seen the game..."

Ok, Next!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

whether or not people are consistent, JC still seems to only want to throw to 2 people...Moss and Cooley, great targets, but not the only ones.

What the hell was the swing/ screen pass that was behind the WR, while they were covered, could have easily been 5 TO. He locks in on WR and does not see the field. He reminds me of J. Shroeder.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 5, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I've been a JC supporter for a while now but I've been starting to turn a little. I also have been one of those wait and see guys for Zorn. That position is also changing. I also realize MK is really only in his first active year but this is starting to get ridiculous. We have all these new "weapons" and I don't see them being used. Whether they are getting open or JC just isn't looking their way or they just aren't what we hoped they would be or Zorn just isn't trying to get them involved is not too bright. This offense was not great when just Cooley and Moss were targeted. Still the same. Those 2 do their damage because they're good and you can't cover them all the time. But you can't tell me we are going to win a lot of games with just those 2. Beantown said it aqt 9:21. What the hell happened to all these other guys? What happened to Randle El after that first game? This is getting old.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

recievers- inconsistent, running game - inconsistent

Right. 100 % BULLCRAP.

Running game, how many yards did portis rush for last year? Over 1400, 4th in the NFC if I'm not mistaken? How is that inconsistent. Yeah the running game failed in the 2nd half of the year, but was that because of Portis, or because of the failed passing game??

Moss went over 1000 yards, Cooley had a career high in catches, as did ARE, how is that inconsistent??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

whether or not people are consistent, JC still seems to only want to throw to 2 people...Moss and Cooley, great targets, but not the only ones.

What the hell was the swing/ screen pass that was behind the WR, while they were covered, could have easily been 5 TO. He locks in on WR and does not see the field. He reminds me of J. Shroeder.

Posted by: mhartz1

JC didn't look great yesterday, no doubt (1st half anyway). But other than Moss, Cooley - we don't have WRs who have shown they can get separation. MK never looks comfortable adjusting for the ball, and DT is rarely on the field. Not sure whats happened with ARE since week 1.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 5, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Did the broadcast ever say how many seats were filled at Fedex yesterday? From the fox broadcast, I saw a lot of empty seats.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:26 AM |

Anybody with a bagged head? Halloween approacheth ...

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

right CL, MK/DT/ARE/FD were NEVER open yesterday. Sorry, you watched the game so this must be true.....how dare I question this....

somehow they got open in the pre-season, but now they've forgotten how to play......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I think the one positive coming out of all of this failure is that Vinny Cerrato's arse is seriously on the line.

When Gibbs left, much was made of Vinny's promotion and the fact that he's now a key architect of the team.

By all accounts it was his decision to bring in Zorn's WCO to the Skins and the drafts are his babies.

I know that Danny has been loyal to his "yes-men", but Vinny has been making Danny look like a fool's fool with this team. I don't think even Danny can suffer this kind of assault on his pride/ego.

With a little luck, we will see the end of Cerrato at Redskins Park and (hopefully) Danny will have eaten enough humble pie to bring in some REAL football people and just step away.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

That was the worst half of football I can remember seeing from a QB...ever. Even I didn't think it was possible for Campbell to look that bad. Everything from his reading of the defense to his mechanics to his arm-strength was downright crap. As big of a Campbell supporter as I am, I would have been happy to see him pulled at halftime.

But he did pick it up in the second half. Two picture perfect strikes to Cooley and Moss, hitting the deep ball, unafraid to take shots (coincidentally what everyone asked for), multiple times took off and scrambled for first downs without the fear of contact, had a major 4th down completion to Cooley on a rollout, and HE was the guy that made the plays to win the game for the Redskins yesterday.

As bad as it was in the first half, the second half was a major turning point for Campbell. That's the type of game that flicks a switch in a QB. Horrible game overall, but he made the plays that needed to be made in the end.

On the bright side, the defense seemed to get its swagger back. DHall has now had two solid performances in a row, Orakpo had another sack and drew another holding penalty, Tryon showed that he has the potential to be a player, and Horton came up big time yet again (as well as Doughty).

All in all, one of the ugliest, yet most necessary wins I can remember having in a long time. The players are feeling it now. Now they need to take it to the next level.

Posted by: psps23 | October 5, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

to the JC haters, tell me:
1) How many QBs in the NFL can hit a referee right between the eyes while his receivers are frantically waving their arms signaling that they are wide open?
2) How many QBs can fumble, throw for three interceptions, one long completion, then be praised for rallying the team to a win?
3) How many QBs can claim to have five one-year experience on the league?
4) How many QBS can be claimed to be good QBs and yet be outplayed by rookies with worse support than him?
5) How many QBs can blame everyone, including the kitchen sink, for his total incompentence?

HUH? None, other than our future hof JC.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Not sure whats happened with ARE since week 1.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 5, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse


My guess is that other teams adjusted to what the skins were doing with ARE, and the skins haven't made the counter yet.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Wow so many chicken/egg scenarios with the Skins, hard to say really. Ample evidence of suckitude on all fronts.

But I have to say that MK/DT/FD just aren't that good. At this point there really is deep concern we went 0 for 3 with critical second round picks.

Imagine a combo like this with 3 2nd rounders: LB/OL/WR. Imagine what better chances of being a better all around team that could have afforded?

We dont have football "adults" manning the helm of this ship, thus to continue the hackneyed metaphor we are adrift at sea.

Cooley/Moss/Portis are the only legit talent on the offense thus they get there numbers called. This includes Campbell....a more talented QB would get lesser players involved...thats the intangible he lacks...he doesn't improve the play of those around him. To me that is essential at the Kewbie position.

But what do i know, not much, and as a fan I am told I am the problem.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

A few things that are blatantly obvious to me after 4 games:

Landry is playing out of position. He has depth perception problems and needs to stop trying to blow everyone up coming from his deep position. He misses like 99%he time.

Orakpo is a pass rusher. If CW95 could play SLB... ok, the team doesnt have a SLB.

CR22 and DH23 are not earning their pay. Especially 23. Anyone could have made that pic.

Reed Doughty needs to hold a "How to make an NFL tackle" session on a weekly basis. Fletcher gets a pass on this.

The team has 5 rbs on the team. And theyre still f*&^%ed at this position! CP is still good, but needs to heal up. Betts cant come in cold and make a difference. Mason and Alridge cant get playing time because the team tied some much $$$ up in the top 2 backs, and thats how the team rolls.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I am stunned that anyone here is still a JC apologist! Did you watch the game he played awful he fumbled the ball AGAIN... he threw 3 picks which but that could have easily been 4. To all those that think this team is "improving" my question is do youawatch football?? The BUCS are awful seriously they are bottomdwellers... yes a win is a win but if this gives you any sense of optimism you have no idea whats coming when we arent playing WINLESS teams.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

a more talented QB would get lesser players involved...thats the intangible he lacks...he doesn't improve the play of those around him. To me that is essential at the Kewbie position.

isn't this essentially what I was saying, but somehow it got dismissed because I didn't see the game??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Sorry BG, crazy I know, but I give credence to those watched the game....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

but somehow still come to the same conclusion that I did....wow...yeah really crazy....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

BG, I dont disagree with your uber point. But you are semi blinded in your belief that DT/MK are good. They are not.

And yes sorry watching them play can be important, have you seen a game since the Giants?

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Carlos drops more balls than Lance Armstrong

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | October 5, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Wow so many chicken/egg scenarios with the Skins, hard to say really. Ample evidence of suckitude on all fronts.


Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Pretty much.

I've grown weary of the carousel:

It's JC! No, it's Zorn and the playcalling! No, it's receivers! No, it's the line! No. it's the defense! No, it's just Horton!

At some point you step back and acknowledge that the whole operation sucks, and that this is a job for a 2-sided battle axe and not a scalpel.

My whole perspective on this team has shifted:

I no longer assume that it is a pretty good team with potential to do some damage in the playoffs, and we only need to address a couple areas of concern.

I now view this team as a bunch of perennial losers heading in a bad direction, and all we can do is try to identify a couple bright spots to salvage.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Tryon is playing much better. Loved his sack yesterday and he did okay in coverage. I was never a Doughty fan but the guy is making a believer out of me. Wow. He had a great game. McIntosh and Fletcher had a pretty good game as well. How about the rookies? Orakpo got his second sack of the season and Jarmin forced a fumble. The defense is still not playing up to its potential, but they looked a lot better yesterday.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 5, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I am with Flounder and the others that share the sentiment that really no one is playing well on this team...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 5, 2009 9:24 AM |

Is this the same Flounder of whom Dean Wormer said: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son"?

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

But what do i know, not much, and as a fan I am told I am the problem.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:38 AM |

Yea, FU CL, you are the problem.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

word, pfunk, word.....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Landry is playing out of position. He has depth perception problems and needs to stop trying to blow everyone up coming from his deep position. He misses like 99%he time.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Lnadry seriously needs to be pulled aside and taught the fundamentals of tackling.

He always tries to go "human-missle" on people and fly in with his shoulder. It's no wonder he whiffs so much.

The one time I actually saw him spread, wrap and take down the ball-carrier was when he tackled the RB for a loss. If he could just do that as a rule and not the exception it would help us alot.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis is AWFUL. I can't believe he was a 2nd round pick. He seems to be the slowest person on the field every time he's out there.

I think they do need to dial up Kelly and Thomas' number more. JC's sideline throw to MK yesterday was bad, but MK made an equally bad play on the ball. If you can't catch it, its your job to make sure the DB can't either. MK looked like he was diving into a pool.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 5, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

But you are semi blinded in your belief that DT/MK are good.

Never said they were good, all I've ever contended is that we don't know what we have in them, because we don't use them. JZ said himself that DT needs to be utilized more to get into the flow of the game, and what has JZ/JC done since then to make that happen??

Absolutely.

Not.

One.

Thing.

How do we know they stink?? How do we know they aren't good when the qb wont throw to them, and the coach wont use them??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Scamp for confirming

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Most peeps have been hating on Tryon to the fullest......

He's a baller...

The youth movement has begun.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I am stunned that anyone here is still a JC apologist! Did you watch the game he played awful he fumbled the ball AGAIN... he threw 3 picks which but that could have easily been 4. To all those that think this team is "improving" my question is do youawatch football?? The BUCS are awful seriously they are bottomdwellers... yes a win is a win but if this gives you any sense of optimism you have no idea whats coming when we arent playing WINLESS teams.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 9:40 AM

Do you remember the Marty year, or Gibbs teams that started 1-3. Or how about Arizona last year getting spanked every time they came east last year. It's the NFL and teams catch fire for no reason. We've seen in the past games like this turn a season around. Will it, we're not sure and have to wait. But I'm one of the faithful who hope we can stay in it and until something with this offense.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Watching our corners play football is disgusting. They tackle like a bunch of girls, especially D HAll. I haven't seen that many chicken wings since Hooters.

Posted by: edvar | October 5, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Agree with VaBB. Why in the crap do you draft a player (Orakpo) that high in the first round and play him out of his position? Same with Landry. Put these guys in their natural positions and fill in the gaps. Don't fill in the gaps with these guys out of position. Vinny is a doosh.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

i was at the game sunday about 11 rows from the 40 behind the skins sideline. it looks like 90% of the times they bring DT11 into the game they run the ball. i dunno if anyone else noticed it or whether it was just coincidence, but i they gotta get the ball to him. the skins have to be able to spread the ball around. secondly i think the oline has to givr jc more time. there were plays that developed downfiels with ARE and MK12 where they worked to get open for what woulda been tds, but JC had to throw it away b/c of pressure.

bottom line though, JC doesn't TURN IT OVER 4 TIMES that game has blowout potential. we gotta stop shooting ourselves in the foot and JC cannot play like that anymore. BTW you think zorn stayed with JC because he has 0 confidence in TC15?


ps. i see why some dislike landry, he misses a lot of tackles to be a safety

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Lnadry seriously needs to be pulled aside and taught the fundamentals of tackling.

He always tries to go "human-missle" on people and fly in with his shoulder. It's no wonder he whiffs so much.

The one time I actually saw him spread, wrap and take down the ball-carrier was when he tackled the RB for a loss. If he could just do that as a rule and not the exception it would help us alot.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:48 AM |

I remember watching LSU games when he was playing there and saying to my father how undisciplined that LSU team was. He agreed and Landry hasn't changed. Why hasn't he been coached better here?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Do you remember the Marty year, or Gibbs teams that started 1-3. Or how about Arizona last year getting spanked every time they came east last year. It's the NFL and teams catch fire for no reason. We've seen in the past games like this turn a season around. Will it, we're not sure and have to wait. But I'm one of the faithful who hope we can stay in it and until something with this offense.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse


Sorry TWIS. What you are grasping at is a blind and dumb faith.

"Turn it around??" That was the Tampa Bay Bucs we just played AT HOME.

A team with a first year head coach in Year 1 of a massive rebuilding project and a QB making a first career start.

You act like what the Skins pulled of was Normandy.

Instead they barely eaked by an atrocious team.

In my book, you don't get much credit for a courageous comeback at home, when your own crappy incompetence against an inferior team put you in the hole to begin with.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis is AWFUL. I can't believe he was a 2nd round pick. He seems to be the slowest person on the field every time he's out there.

I think they do need to dial up Kelly and Thomas' number more. JC's sideline throw to MK yesterday was bad, but MK made an equally bad play on the ball. If you can't catch it, its your job to make sure the DB can't either. MK looked like he was diving into a pool.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 5, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

how do you talk bout Fred davis speed and say MK needs the ball more? since JC underthrew him in the preseason he's been laying it out there for him to run under and MK hasn't been able to catch up to the ball. he let talib outrun him for JC's 2nd pick and got outmuscled on the other one.
MK12 doesn't have the speed a lot of yall think he does.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Even if you saw the game, its hard to tell if MK/DT/FD are getting open. The tv broadcast sucks after playing madden too much. It doesnt show the WR routes, except on the few replays. It more than just the 2nd rounders getting/not getting open. Its play calling, JC looking their way. Its the 2nd rounders making a play when their number is called. Apparently this is the only way JZ and JC will start looking their way more. It sucks that everytime JC throws their way, it just seems forced and ugly...


Anyone notice that with the team sucking, they get the worst broadcast teams? No good replay analysis after that first Campbell fumble>.... wtf?! I never saw a definitive replay that showed he wasnt already down...

Anyone know how to get nfl "eye in the sky" game tape? Is there a website that has this?? That would be frikin awesome.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Watching our corners play football is disgusting. They tackle like a bunch of girls, especially D HAll. I haven't seen that many chicken wings since Hooters.

Posted by: edvar | October 5, 2009 9:52 AM |

The patented and dreaded Deion Sanders back tackle.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Here is the problem a bunch of players doesnt a team make...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years. The way the league is built now really caters to the teams that can keep system and staff together 4-5 years in a row. No team, regardless of players, would have great success with the Skins ownership and FO. Having said that, the Skins will not break .500 this year and they will be starting fresh again next year. We, as fans, will have to endure at least two more seasons of mediocrity.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 5, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I remember watching LSU games when he was playing there and saying to my father how undisciplined that LSU team was. He agreed and Landry hasn't changed. Why hasn't he been coached better here?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse


Because this team has a culture of "star-worship" starting with the owner who shares a bunk bed with CP26.

If you make alot of $$ or you were a high-draft pick, you are exempt from real accountability.

(E.g. See Blache's benching of the 7th round guy instead of any number of high-priced or high-drafted starters who were more deserving of being benched.)

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"Sticking With It" - Reid
"Instant Redemption" - Wise
"Down, Redskins Show Fire" - Boswell
"Defense Turns In An Inspired Effort" - Maese

Those are some of the headlines on the WP.
This paper has no real reporters, they have cheerleaders, homers, reporting.
Are you kidding me?

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

First things first - it's good to have a win at home. It was necessary for this team.

But it's not like it was anything to write home about.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 5, 2009 8:16 AM |

Epistemological question: what is the meaning of writing about something to a place (home) where the thing occurred (home)? Answer on the 11 pm local news, right after Jay!

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

bench campbell for who?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I have Rogers droping 2 ints this year. Any others?

Posted by: mul123 | October 5, 2009 8:54 AM

He's already at 2 for the year.

I'll say 5.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Here is the problem a bunch of players doesnt a team make...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Here is the problem a bunch of players doesnt a team make...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"If what you say is true then explain the 6-1 skein at the beginning of 2008 after sucking hard in the opener against the Giants. And it was against some pretty pretty pretty good teams - Dallas, Philly, etc."

That was the remnants of Gibbs2.0 "fight your guts out" teams. What we see now is Zorn's "stay medium" crew that never shows up ready to play.

Posted by: divi3 | October 5, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

p1funk you're entitled to your opinion, but Marty started 0-5 and we were trailing the sorry Panthers at home 17-0 in the first half. LA made a play and from there the team played good football. You can give up and moan, and vex. I choose to go the other way and wait until the games have been played. Do I think they are a good team. No, not now, but teams turn around all the time regardless of how poorly they may have been playing.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

He's in his 5th year in the league
He's starting for the 2nd year in the 2nd year of an offensive system.
He's got a top 20 WR, a top 10 TE, and a very good RB
When exactly should he start to produce according to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Also...

Throw Todd Collins in there, I bet you find MK12/Sleepy/DT11.

Book it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

actually, the prevailing opinion is generally that the Post has an ax to grind with the Redskins - perhaps just simple accuracy describes the headlines?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Even if you saw the game, its hard to tell if MK/DT/FD are getting open. The tv broadcast sucks after playing madden too much. It doesnt show the WR routes, except on the few replays. It more than just the 2nd rounders getting/not getting open. Its play calling, JC looking their way. Its the 2nd rounders making a play when their number is called. Apparently this is the only way JZ and JC will start looking their way more. It sucks that everytime JC throws their way, it just seems forced and ugly...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 5, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

they are able to get open it's just that our lin doesn't give the play time for wrs to get open. if the pocket breaks down as quickly as it has at times this season, jc is throwing away or checking down. the wrs are breaking off of their routes downfield and getting open JC just has to keep his eyes downfield and maybe take some hits. Tony Romo is able to find guys down the field b/c he has time to look al over the field JC ususally has to find his hot reciever or his safety valve rb. it's not all protection though he's gotta keep his eyes downfield not focused on the rush.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

He's in his 5th year in the league
He's starting for the 2nd year in the 2nd year of an offensive system.
He's got a top 20 WR, a top 10 TE, and a very good RB
When exactly should he start to produce according to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:05 AM |

you left out "and a horrible O line." Having said that, he should start producing now.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

How about Jarmon...Kid is gonna be a good player. He needs more reps in passing downs. Really like that pick.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 5, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

and, the "Gibbs fight your guts out" team in 2007 played pretty much the way this team is playing in 2009 up until the last 4 games of 2007. Maybe a bit of perspective helps - this team has not been good for a while...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

bench campbell for who?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM

At this point I have him behind ARE as a QB, and even the waterboy might be better.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

I am stunned that anyone here is still a JC apologist! Did you watch the game he played awful he fumbled the ball AGAIN... he threw 3 picks which but that could have easily been 4. To all those that think this team is "improving" my question is do youawatch football?? The BUCS are awful seriously they are bottomdwellers... yes a win is a win but if this gives you any sense of optimism you have no idea whats coming when we arent playing WINLESS teams.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse
=============================================
First, its not like the skins are Super Bowl contenders themselves, they're no different than the Bucs, ok, so let's end any thought of grandeur. Secondly, I do watch football, and true Campbell struggled, but he also fought his way back into the game. I'm just happy he aired it out. I hope he and zorn realize that its not the end of the world to throw a pic or two, but if you want a fighting chance take some risks and AIR IT OUT. Finally, be happy this team beats anybody because like the Lions, Rams, Bucs, Chiefs, and Panthers we stink and its not JC's fault. We have no GM, a QB coach as a head coach, no depth, a porous OL and a porous defense, no running backs, an offense so predictable, the commentators calling the game announce the play before the ball is snapped, a punt returner who is absolutely horrified of a punted ball falling from the sky, and out of the receiving core we have, just one that is somewhat of a threat, he's a number 2 on most teams. Be happy we won, because this year, the wins are going to be few and far in between.

Posted by: clark202 | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

p1funk you're entitled to your opinion, but Marty started 0-5 and we were trailing the sorry Panthers at home 17-0 in the first half. LA made a play and from there the team played good football. You can give up and moan, and vex. I choose to go the other way and wait until the games have been played. Do I think they are a good team. No, not now, but teams turn around all the time regardless of how poorly they may have been playing.

Posted by: TWISI | October 5, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse


I vividly remember that Panther's game and the Arrington pick. (I'm still grateful that the Panthers decided to keep throwing the ball instead of milking the lead by running it!).

Here's the big difference, IMO:

What you are talking about was MArty's first year.

What we are seeing now cannot be judged in a vacuum.

We have to look at what happened all of last year plus this year, so far, to judge the trajectory of this team.

Marty got off to a slow start and pulled it together.

This team looks to have peaked in its first 8 games and has been on a downhill slide ever since. Zorn's offense has not progressed/developed and looks to get worse and worse as time goes on.

We could say it is a personnel issue, or a coaching issue, or a scheme issue, or an execution issue - the reality is that it's probably some of all 4. Until all 4 of those things are properly addressed there is no reason to think this team will have a miraculous "come-to-Jesus" moment and start winning.

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Everyone who hates on MK, DT and FD, let me ask you to consider this:

Marko Mitchell was tearing it up in preseason and has exactly zero catches in the regular season. Now, why is that?

Malcolm Kelly looked good in the preseason and he caught zero balls yesterday, six for the regular season. The guy is a tree and you don't throw some high sideline passes to him?

Marcus Mason played well in the preseason. I believe he has all of five carries so far in the regular season. Yesterday he han an eight yard run and then we didn't see him again.

Devin Thomas has one catch in the regular season. He gets into the game but I believe his role is decoy because Campbell doesn't even look at him. Why isn't he returning punts if nothing else? He'd have to be better than "fair-catch-el".

Fred Davis has three catches in the regular season. Isn't the tightend they said had come "so far" in the preseason? Didn't we hear raves about two tight end sets? Well, if Davis is bad, Yoder is worse because he has no catches this season.

Could it possibly be that this has to do with a lack of confidence in younger players by the coach, who shows it in his play calling, and through osmosis, his quarterback, who shows it in his ignoring open guys? Think about it. I'd buy that one of the three drafted last year might not make the grade. I'd think it was a stretch to say that two didn't make the grade. BUT three second round picks didn't pan out? No way. I don't buy it. There is a major dysfunction here. Zorn might cite mistakes by the players as why they get limited touches, but isn't it true that young players learn by making mistakes? I think this is just another deficiency in the coach.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 5, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

How about Jarmon...Kid is gonna be a good player. He needs more reps in passing downs. Really like that pick.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 5, 2009 10:08 AM |

Jammin Jarmon!

Posted by: TubularBells | October 5, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Also...

Throw Todd Collins in there, I bet you find MK12/Sleepy/DT11.

Book it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

was he able to do that in the preseason, even? when was the last time Todd threw a td to any wr in a game that counted, or even a preseason one that didn't? todd collins is a$$ book that.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

the same todd collins who has never been trusted to star a game unless another qb was hurt? i think callin for collins is a blemish to the credibility of anyone who thinks they know anything about football.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Morning all,

Tough game yesterday -- thankfully I haven't been able to watch the past 3 games, and from what I have read and the "highlights" I've seen, I'm glad I missed out...

From what this team has been over the past few years though, no one should be surprised really. We don't blow out teams we should dominate -- hardly ever do. With this team, winning ugly is about what we can expect, and I guess I'll take it. 2-2 is still in the thick of things, and maybe this year we'll peak at the end of the season, as opposed to collapsing. One can wish, anyway...

Posted by: mattylight | October 5, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

rsh, agreed, 1 Brazillion percent with your post....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Pop quiz time.

The problem with this team is:

a) Jason Cambell
Ω) Jim Zorn
$) The offensive line
£) Dan Snyder
π) Vinny Cerrato
®) Soft Defense
) All of the above

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 5, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

bench campbell for who?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM

At this point I have him behind ARE as a QB, and even the waterboy might be better.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

ARE you serious? then we'll be talkin about how short our qb is and we need to draft taller ones.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Pop quiz time.

The problem with this team is:

a) Jason Cambell
Ω) Jim Zorn
$) The offensive line
£) Dan Snyder
π) Vinny Cerrato
®) Soft Defense
) All of the above

* Correct answer - Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

bench campbell for who?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM

At this point I have him behind ARE as a QB, and even the waterboy might be better.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM

Now you're just being angry. I'm sure you know that's a ridiculous statement

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

* Correct answer - Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of which, I bet he's a little disappointed that he didn't stay on w/ WaPo for this year.

With all the crappiness oozing from every pore of the team/organization right now, could you imagine the field day he'd be having on RI??

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

* Correct answer - Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I will accept that.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 5, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Look at what Britt is doing in Tennessee and what Manningham is doing for the Giants, and we can't even get a sniff out of Kelly, Thomas or Davis. Is it them or the system they are in? My guess is both.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 5, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Label me a JC apologist and a fan. I think it is comical that after a win, the blowup the team crap starts again. I can not and will not even try to defend JC's play in the first half, but I think its a great sign he was able to shake it off and lead the team back for the win. That would not have happened last year. JC cant win no matter what happens. Last year he was too passive, didnt take any chances. Now there are complaints that he is forcing the ball. He made some god awful throws and some good ones as well.

We need to remember what London Fletcher said last week. This is not a great team. We have a number two receiver masquerading as a one, young receivers that havent earned the trust of anyone and a makeshift line. Is that an excuse to have nailbiters with the Bucs. Of course not, but given the struggles of this team it would have been easy to fall to 1-3 and succumb to the Bs. The good teams in the league dont get everything going to the middle to end of the season. Not saying that we are a good team, we are not, but we can improve and there are no dominant teams in the league this year. But go ahead, fire the coach, blow up the team. You think Tebow, Bradford, McCoy or Snead will move this offense you are joking yourself. If Collins was the answer he would be playing.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 5, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

JLaC is sometimes always the correct answer

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Pop quiz time.

The problem with this team is:

a) Jason Cambell
Ω) Jim Zorn
$) The offensive line
£) Dan Snyder
π) Vinny Cerrato
®) Soft Defense
) All of the above

* Correct answer - Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:17 AM |

^ the fans and Chris Larry

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"Look at what Britt is doing in Tennessee and what Manningham is doing for the Giants, and we can't even get a sniff out of Kelly, Thomas or Davis. Is it them or the system they are in? My guess is both.

Posted by: joeboggs

I agree bazillion percent with this.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

lil holly - Todd Collins is the only choice left. If we had another. I would choose them to.

JC17 = Good Rex/Bad Rex Grossman circa 2/3 years ago.

Even though he went to the SB, he only got a one year low salary offer. And he was a 1st round draft pick as well.

Precedance has already been set.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

So what your saying 4th, is JC is "medium Rex"


chuckle..chuckle...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

By your implied definition of excel, I would mention:
1. One old QB with a limp and OL worse than the Skins in the Rams's Marc Bulger.
2. One rookie QB on a team that had not won in the last century in Detroit's Matthew Stafford
3. One rookie QB on the worst team with zero NFL games experience in Tampa Bays' Josh Freeman

Would that answer your question, or were you asking about real good QBs?

By the way, discarding the Giants, the Redskins opponents have a combined record of 1-11, who was that win against? The Redskins.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

He's in his 5th year in the league
He's starting for the 2nd year in the 2nd year of an offensive system.
He's got a top 20 WR, a top 10 TE, and a very good RB
When exactly should he start to produce according to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:05 AM


I'm not sure he ever will, but he certainly does not have the benefit of any sort of organizational consistency. The point to this was not that JC is the answer but that the entire organization is to blame. A new QB would not help unless the other shortcomings are addressed as well. p.s. I would call Cooley a top 5 TE.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 5, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I'd just like to see dt/mk/fd get the ball more than once a game. Put the ball in their hands and see what happens. I mean, is that such a bad thing? Possibly having an option other than Cooley/Moss to throw to....where is the harm, where is the drawback in doing this??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Pop quiz time.

The problem with this team is:

a) Jason Cambell
Ω) Jim Zorn
$) The offensive line
£) Dan Snyder
π) Vinny Cerrato
®) Soft Defense
) All of the above

* Correct answer - Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 5, 2009 10:17 AM

#) Booing "fans" (with sense of entitlement inspired by obscene prices)

Note: The season officially started in the second half. That which came before is banished history ... and by "banished," I suspect everyone up here will continue jabbering about it all season long.

Posted by: dcsween | October 5, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

He's in his 5th year in the league
He's starting for the 2nd year in the 2nd year of an offensive system.
He's got a top 20 WR, a top 10 TE, and a very good RB
When exactly should he start to produce according to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 5, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

He's got a oline that can't block. Stephon Heyer looks like a revolving door out there. We have a RB that's approaching 30 and already has 2,000 carries. His #2 Receiver lost an entire year due to medical issues and is basically a rookie. Face the facts. We largely ignored this offense for nearly half a decade. It's not going to be good. Campbell is a mediocre QB and has to be surrounded by talent in order to win. We knew that when we drafted him. It's in his scouting report. There is nothing wrong with this strategy. It worked for Baltimore, Tampa, Pittsburgh, and even us when we won our 3 super bowls. Campbell makes 1 million a year. We are only 5 million under the cap. If we had a good QB we would have to cut about 5-10 million out of our budget. If we draft Bradford then you can kiss a bunch of highly paid defensive players goodbye. Then we'll have a decent offense and a crappy defense and we'll be right back here again only we'll be calling for Blache's head and some unfortunate 4th rounder stuck starting at CB or middle linebacker. With Campbell we only need to grab a right tackle and a running back. Next years draft is loaded with both. This team can win but it will win ugly. We need to score 1 more TD a game. If we score 3 TDs a game we are a playoff team.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 5, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

By the way, discarding the Giants, the Redskins opponents have a combined record of 1-11, who was that win against? The Redskins.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse


And next week we get the winless Panthers on the road.

Anyone want to start talking about the implications of this game??

Posted by: p1funk | October 5, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

sween,

Me and my posse that watch the games and chant "The season starts NOW!" after every good play as a sorta false rallying cry....then order another round of shots....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

bench campbell for who?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:00 AM

At this point I have him behind ARE as a QB, and even the waterboy might be better.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:09 AM

Now you're just being angry. I'm sure you know that's a ridiculous statement

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 10:19 AM

I am not being angry, LOL, I am just a frustrated wise arse.
As for the statement being ridiculous, well yes, but at the same level of ridicule as having, or supporting, JC as QB.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I am not being angry, LOL, I am just a frustrated wise arse.
As for the statement being ridiculous, well yes, but at the same level of ridicule as having, or supporting, JC as QB.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:32 A

Remember, don't blog angry. Frustrated? With this team? Noooo...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 5, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"Me and my posse that watch the games and chant "The season starts NOW!" after every good play as a sorta false rallying cry....then order another round of shots...."

That is great!!! you have made my day.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Label me a JC apologist and a fan. ...

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | October 5, 2009 10:22 AM

Me too, just don't label me his agent (my family needs to eat too). I knew (like every Buccs secondary guy knew) who JC was targetting from the moment he took the snap ... because the intended receiver was the only one he watched ... and he watched the guy like his line of sight was his rope of his throw.

He needs to settle down and loosen up.

AND THE SKINS NEED OFFENSIVE LINEMEN! They didn't have success until the second half because everything good came off a three step drop and throw. Even the small pocket they ever created collapsed as soon as he stepped into it. Offensive lines win football games! Yesterday's line performance was wretched and the second half success was in SPITE OF the offensive line. The ONLY thing available (and thank jeebus they figured this out) was short passes in the flats and over the middle to RBs and TEs. [Also, Fred Davis sucks at blocking.]

Posted by: dcsween | October 5, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"JC cant win no matter what happens."

Not unless he's Drew Brees, nope. One week he doesn't do anything to lose the game, throws for 340 yards and 2 TDs, and it's "Jason doesn't do anything to win games." The next week Jason throws 2 TDs, converts multiple clutch 1st downs, brings the team from behind for a win from a double digit deficit, and it's "Campbell sucks, throw Collins in there and he'll find DT/MK/and FD."

It's pretty much all lose-lose for Campbell at this point. Unless he puts up a 350 yard, 3 TD day, grinds out 120 yards on the ground, opens 2 holes for Portis TDs, grabs an INT or two, and accomplishes a double digit 4th quarter comeback all in the same game, somehwere, somehow Campbell will be at fault....even if the team wins regardless.

Posted by: psps23 | October 5, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis just plain sucks....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 5, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

cL, then may you and your posse sober up. I say Skins not only will score first in Charlotte, but that they score in the first quarter. [Actually, if anyone wants to put $10 on this, I need to make up for a $10 loss one this same bet yesterday.]

Posted by: dcsween | October 5, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Agreed and have indicated before, JC bales on the play call when the primary receiver is covered.

This is unacceptable. However, it does not indicate that he is necessarily a QB that cannot get it done.

I am of the opinion though, that this is a offensive inadequacy that is correctable by practice.

I have seen to many good QB's and good offensive football Teams that thrive on killing the Defense when the initial play call is covered.

This is a part of overall offensive strategy that the Redskins and JC do not appear to relish.

They are hell bent on running those same plays that we see for years without any improvisation. When a play is initially covered that should be your key to get other people involved. It is a gameplan feature than can be taught and practiced.

If it is being adequately covered in practice as an offensive threat and JC is not executing in the game, then it is all his fault.

But, what I can see from the games, options after initial breakdown is not a major, or an important philosophy in the offensive gameplan.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 5, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see Collins play if for no other reason than to find out if the other receivers are that bad, or it is just a quarterback that plays favorites.
Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 5, 2009 9:14 AM |
Count me in with this sentiment. I have been supporting Campbell all along but wanted to hold judgment until 4 games were down. I don’t see much improvement from him. He is still a gamer in my book, but just needs to play like he did in the 3rd qtr on a consistent basis. Maybe he will get better. He definitely looks for Cooley and Moss more than anyone else. I would just want to see what would happen from a spreading the ball around standpoint if they were to put Collins in. If he goes in and DT/MK/Davis and others starting catching balls, then yes, I would say that Campbell isn’t making the right reads. Unfortunately the only way we will see this is if Campbell gets hurt.

I’m not writing Campbell off 100% just yet. Nice comeback yesterday, but he needs to play more consistently, period. We’ll see what happens when we play a good team again, I suppose, but my confidence in him is really starting to waiver. Just wish we could see TC for a game or a half. Oh well.

Just have to say for those parrots who keep repeating that Campbell has a “slow delivery” just watch the TD pass to cooley yesterday and see if you still think his delivery is slow….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 5, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

I think the OLine play was mixed yesterday...

Pass Pro was good...

Run Blocking wasn't....


You can't put any of those Turnover's on the OLine...

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: dcsween | October 5, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

1. JC looked bad yesterday, real bad. But all of a sudden, we ran play action and things started happening. Then we didn't, and everything stopped happening. Just underlines that Jim Zorn is a moron.

2. To all the Collins guys, Todd Collins played in Al Saunders offense for something like 5 years. When Campbell went down, Collins did what he's always done and looked good. This isn't Al Saunders offense anymore. To expect the same results is ludicrous. But I suppose you won't be happy until you see for yourself.

Like it or not, at this stage, Campbell is our best chance at winning games.

Posted by: kingtutts | October 5, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

PSP He threw 3 Picks and beaned a ref in the head!!!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

PSP He threw 3 Picks and beaned a ref in the head!!! and fumbled AGAIN!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 5, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

lil holly - Todd Collins is the only choice left. If we had another. I would choose them to.

JC17 = Good Rex/Bad Rex Grossman circa 2/3 years ago.

Even though he went to the SB, he only got a one year low salary offer. And he was a 1st round draft pick as well.

Precedance has already been set.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 5, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

rex grossman lost a very good chicago team a lot of games, their defense carried them his entire career. campbell isn't grossman, not nearly as cavalier with the ball. i doubt jason will have many multi pick games this year, grossman was good for 2-3 3 pick games per season. let's not exaggerate folks, all you campbell haters got ur game where u can really unleash on JC, but it was HIS arm that led the game winning drive (someone told me just last week that he was incappable of that), which is his second of the year btw. So bask in our qb's uneven performance, and root against him next week too, but barring a total meltdown, (u know one that actually costs the team a game),no white knight is riding in to save you. JC will be our qb.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

By your implied definition of excel, I would mention:
1. One old QB with a limp and OL worse than the Skins in the Rams's Marc Bulger.
2. One rookie QB on a team that had not won in the last century in Detroit's Matthew Stafford
3. One rookie QB on the worst team with zero NFL games experience in Tampa Bays' Josh Freeman

Would that answer your question, or were you asking about real good QBs?

By the way, discarding the Giants, the Redskins opponents have a combined record of 1-11, who was that win against? The Redskins.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

So are you saying you would rather have any of those three QB's under center for the Skins as they are put together right now?? Again, I'm certainly not saying JC is a very good QB right now but I do think he is a product of his organizations complete lack of continuity. The good teams in this league get players to fit a certain system and build off of that system. The Skins get players due to their name recognition and ability to sell jerseys.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 5, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

When Campbell started to use his legs he was more effective. He made some bad choices out there in the first half. We need to try to run right sometimes. How bout a delay or draw? How bout an 8 -10 yard curl to DT or MK. Mason needs more carries. Toss it outside to him or Alridge. I don't get why Marko and Alridge were inactive. Deactivate Randel El. Put in DT in punt and KO returns. Play Jarmon more. Where Chris Wilson? Carolina on the road after a Bye and 2 weeks to prepare for us is another trap game for us. If we play like we did in the first half we are done, if we come out and spread it out and get everyone involved, we may have a shot.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 5, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Easy on JC17 guys...no one here thinks he is an elite QB...but we can't have it both ways. Last season, we're all over him, wanting him to be more aggressive and take some chances, and this year he's tried that a little more, with no success, and people blast him for it. He led us to a win yesterday when it would have been easy to fold. I respect that. It wasn't pretty, but style points or no style points we're 2-2 and the season isn't lost yet...

Posted by: mattylight | October 5, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

"How many QB's in this league would excel if put in the exact same situation as Campbell? I'm guessing very few. JC has been given very little to build on over the years"

By your implied definition of excel, I would mention:
1. One old QB with a limp and OL worse than the Skins in the Rams's Marc Bulger.
2. One rookie QB on a team that had not won in the last century in Detroit's Matthew Stafford
3. One rookie QB on the worst team with zero NFL games experience in Tampa Bays' Josh Freeman

Would that answer your question, or were you asking about real good QBs?

By the way, discarding the Giants, the Redskins opponents have a combined record of 1-11, who was that win against? The Redskins.

Posted by: hock1 | October 5, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

i challenge this sports out yer arse talk.

1)I think the ram's o line has at least 2 recent first rd draft picks starting, and has been able to block well enough for steven jackson to go over 100yds 3 times this yr.
2)Detroit has won a game this century, and has possibly the best wr in the NFC.
3)Josh Freeman hasn't playe in a game this season, why bring him up?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

For Campbell to be a little more effective, he must run with the ball more.
Look at the first game against the Giants when he threw that int on the sideline intended for Moss, had he not thrown that ball he had some room to run. The problem is he doesn't recognize bad elements quick enough just like the pocket pressence he does not have.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 5, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

the sign of great teams is winning on on off days.

(just kidding)

Posted by: rsmskc | October 5, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Agreed and have indicated before, JC bales on the play call when the primary receiver is covered.

This is unacceptable. However, it does not indicate that he is necessarily a QB that cannot get it done.

I am of the opinion though, that this is a offensive inadequacy that is correctable by practice.

I have seen to many good QB's and good offensive football Teams that thrive on killing the Defense when the initial play call is covered.

This is a part of overall offensive strategy that the Redskins and JC do not appear to relish.

They are hell bent on running those same plays that we see for years without any improvisation. When a play is initially covered that should be your key to get other people involved. It is a gameplan feature than can be taught and practiced.

If it is being adequately covered in practice as an offensive threat and JC is not executing in the game, then it is all his fault.

But, what I can see from the games, options after initial breakdown is not a major, or an important philosophy in the offensive gameplan.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 5, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

i know it's hard to "accept" him bailing on the play after he finds the no. 1 option covered, however you gotta watch his feet in the pocket. he doesn't get to set up and stand back there like romo and brady, oline breakdowns dictate the passing lanes and where he's able to set up if at all. as the line comes together, if the line comes together, i think JC will get the opportunity to stand in the pocket and look at the whole field like manning,brady,and romo do but not right now the line just isn't good enough yet.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

For Campbell to be a little more effective, he must run with the ball more.
Look at the first game against the Giants when he threw that int on the sideline intended for Moss, had he not thrown that ball he had some room to run. The problem is he doesn't recognize bad elements quick enough just like the pocket pressence he does not have.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 5, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

it's funny, when mike sellars dropped the td agains STL people copmplained about throwing the ball to a blocking FB (nice catch sunday big mike) but more and more people want our qb to run with the ball, instead of throw it.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 5, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't really have time to go into a full analysis of what's being said in this forum...so I'll go with a short summary...WHAT A BUNCH OF FREAKIN' IDIOTS!!!

Posted by: drfunknsoul | October 5, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

J.C. is obviously not your prototypical running QB but things seem to open up a bit when he can keep drives alive by running with the ball.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 5, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Needless to say I am pretty disappointed that we struggled so badly against a terrible team.

I think the most disconcerting thing is not getting any input from MK/DT/FD and even ARE. I have to think these guys are getting open at least a few times a game considering they are not being guarded by the opposing teams top tier defensive backs.

I do think playcalling plays a big part into this. joeboggs made a great point about Kenny Britt and guys like Hakeem Nicks and Johnny Knox from Chicago. Other teams manage to get rookie and 2nd year WRs involved early and often in the season, yet we talk up all this "potential" in the preseason and how our guys are going to break out and absolutely nothing happens.

I guess I am just tired of all the hype on our 2nd round picks and our inability to get them involved. Any defense that plays us know the formula to beat us - put a safety over the top and chuck moss at the line and throw double coverage on Cooley and it is almost a guarantee that we won't be able to do anything offensively.

We need to start drawing up quick pass plays that optimize who we have on the field. If we can't give time for JC to throw to a route that takes time to materialize than let's do some quick slants and other ways to get more involvement from these guys. Get some short yardage stuff than take some deep shots.

Man I would give anything to see a double digit victory at some point this season but just don't see it happening!

Posted by: dwninit71 | October 5, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

The comment that JC should run the ball more is attributable to the fact that when he does run good things happen.

Doc Walker has been saying for two years now that JC should run more as a matter of scheme and especially early in the game.

He feels that when JC runs it makes him more effective.

I agree and I also believe that JC's running is a good way to get him to hit different receivers if he would incorporate his running as a controlled scramble also.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 5, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

And those of you that keep bemoaning that fact that JC beaned the referee should take a closer look at the replay.

I am glad he hit the referee. It might just have been a turn in his favor, for if he had not hit the referee that pass was headed straight for an interception.

I rather have a beaned referee than a fourth interception.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 5, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

1St of all,the bucs never made Tryon cover a staring Wr. As we play more capable offenses tryon will be exposed.We dont have a capable nickel corner with the ability to cover a third wr. The nickel must process down and distance and total weaknesses of the defense much faster than an outside corner, Whlie moving much faster also.(i.e. sean springs). I hate to admit this, but none of our corners provide the physical and mental combination of springs and will be exposed against NFCE QB's.

Posted by: percydonldson | October 5, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I watched yesterday's game and was as frustrated as anyone with the first half. 2nd half the team showed some heart. Reading these posts make me sick. Same crap over and over. Face it Snyder is the owner if any of you pessimists has the money to buy the team from him, than do it. If you can't I would suggest some other activity during Redskin games. Maybe a family picnic or drive to the mountains.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 5, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't know who cr@pped in all your guys oatmeal but I went to bed and woke up HAPPY WITH A REDSKINS WIN!!!

Posted by: filmchis | October 5, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

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