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Using Two Tight Ends Is One Option

Seeing the Redskins in a two tight-end set Sunday against the New York Giants would not surprise me in the least.

Simply put, the Giants' defensive line is the league's best, and the Redskins need to be smart, creative and efficient in trying to protect quarterback Jason Campbell. "Obviously, with the Giants, you're talking a great defense, a great line," Campbell said. "Those guys do a great job putting pressure on the quarterback and disrupting the timing of your offense.

"Whenever you play any team, you know you have to have your pass pro set. You have to get your pass pro right against any defense, but especially with the Giants."

Led by Pro Bowl ends Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora, New York applies immense pressure from the edge, which could make things difficult for tackles Chris Samuels and Stephon Heyer in the opener.

The Redskins probably need to help Heyer on the right side as much as possible -- and Samuels at left tackle at times as well -- which means they'll have to commit a running back or a tight end in protection on many plays.

I've been told that second-year tight end Fred Davis has made major strides overall since his rookie season and is ready to contribute behind Chris Cooley. Coach Jim Zorn rarely showed his two tight-end look last season because Davis was lost. Zorn couldn't trust Davis (he had problems learning the playbook and stirred concern because he often giggled in meetings), but Davis made plays in the preseason and, most importantly, was where he needed to be at the right time.

"After last year, I just wanted to work hard and show the coaching staff I'm ready to do this," Davis said. "I feel like I've done that. I'm ready to do what I need to do if I'm out there with Chris, and I know what I need to know if they need me to be in there for Chris. I'm ready."

The Redskins are counting on it.

"I've been saying all along we need everybody, and Fred will be involved in what we're trying to do," Campell said. "Fred is one of the young guys we're expecting to see step up."

Chat with The Mayor

I'll be chatting at 11; what's on your minds?

By Jason Reid  |  September 11, 2009; 8:47 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Rookie Orakpo Converting Blache

Comments

first.....I really hate the Ginas

Posted by: iH8dallas | September 11, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to see Fred Davis and Cooley on the field at the same time.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 11, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Get it together Fred!

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I think the two tight end set will be effective, but I think it plays right into the Giants' strengths. These guys are dinged up in the secondary so go three and four wide receivers, and challenge them to stop the pass. Put Jason Campbell in the shotgun and let him use his legs a little to buy time. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: the Giants' secondary is suspect, and if you can buy the QB some time you can burn them. Run the hurry up to keep them from subbing defenders and just throw it, babeee.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Wsup JReid,

The Skins definitely have weapons this year man. I think the 2 tight end set will be outstanding because both Cooley and Fred Davis have excellent hands. And Davis has Great speed for a tight end. He will surprise people this year, along with the other young wideouts developing.

Posted by: gcoles32 | September 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I hate when people giggle in my meetings.

Posted by: chasla | September 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

lol, anyone else think Fred's nickname should be 'Giggles' :D

Posted by: Huntre | September 11, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Ah yes, giggling in meetings. Not good at all.

Humor makes us weak!

BTW, that goes for RI, too.

Posted by: farstriker | September 11, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

BTW im writing from Bangkok and still keeping tabs on RI. I will be back in time on Sunday to watch our Boys put it on the Giants. It will be a long trip home back home with a happy ending!

Hail!

Posted by: gcoles32 | September 11, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Whatever, I refuse to believe the hype surrounding the 2 TE set until we actually see it on the field.

Saying Davis wasn't ready last year is a weak excuse. They still had Yoder! Why couldn't they put Yoder and Cooley on the field together?

This 2TE set stuff is just urban myth in DC.

Posted by: McMetal | September 11, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Right, Yoder is under-utilized. He may not be pro-bowl, but he's big, has good hands and is ok on assignment. He's botched a couple things, but no more than any starter...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 11, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I think the two tight end set will be effective, but I think it plays right into the Giants' strengths. These guys are dinged up in the secondary so go three and four wide receivers, and challenge them to stop the pass.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 9:06 AM


Agreed. The Skins should have a decided matchup advantage in the passing game and should use that advantage. I could see Randel El having a big day in the slot if they stay true to that strategy.

They also need to do a good job of playing keep-away from the Giants offense. I'm not scared of that unit at all but I do think you keep them out of any sort of rhythm if they stay on the sidelines.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Did giggling force Zorn into raging fits of "Gee Golly Gosh"? I sometimes wonder if the coach developed Tourette syndrome while watching "Leave It To Beaver" marathons.

Posted by: pgugino | September 11, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

You could do an ace package w/ 2 TEs and 2 Wide outs... that'd get you some protection and some threats.

Plus, Cooley in the secondary is trouble for any team, I would think. (size mismatching, I've seen it happen).

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 11, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

And, I agree with Redskinshead about the shotgun formation. That is JC's bread and butter and they need to be utilizing it more often. Throw deep to Kelly & Moss, and do it often.

Posted by: pgugino | September 11, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

If big-Ben can throw for 300 plus on the Titans, then JC should be able to throw against the Giants...this is where zorn needs to make hay, roll JC out, throw on running downs, and run on passing downs, keep these guys off balance, don't play into their hands, use his weapons, throw to Cooley/Kelly/Thomas/Betts, until you lull them to sleep then throw over the top to Moss...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

And, JC has always performed well in a hurry up offense

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 11, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Just read the Wise column...good stuff. Sooo ready for Sunday!

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Traditional WCO is supposedly all about 3-step drops, quick slants and multiple receivers, work in a couple bubble screens to Moss - that would seem to neutralize a pass rush.

Let's do something really crazy and outside-of-the-box and just run the friggin' offense that we've supposedly been "perfecting" for the past year.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Sooo ready for Sunday!

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 9:37 AM

-----------

Easy there, big fella.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"These guys are dinged up in the secondary so go three and four wide receivers, and challenge them to stop the pass."
Posted by: RedSkinHead

LOL don't let Osi and Tuck see this -- they'll be drooling.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 11, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I think we'll really have some opportunities to get the ball deep when we go 2-tight-ends and keep Cooley in to block. I think they'll have to expect us to send Cooley out and keep Davis blocking (and usually we probably will) so when we do the opposite it could throw off the rush (or the blitz) and give the wideouts time to get behind the safeties.

Sticking to my prediction. Redskins 31, Giants 13.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 11, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I love the idea of us seeing more 2 TE action. I hope we have something like 5-6 2TE formations we are ready to run and pass out of.

Personally I would like to see a 2TE 3 WR set (with either the TE's split or together. And a few different looks from the I Jumbo set would be good too.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 11, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Throw deep to Kelly & Moss, and do it often.

Posted by: pgugino | September 11, 2009 9:31 AM

----------

Kenny Phillips (S) will be ready.

Phillips made tremendous strides in the spring, when he worked fulltime with the starting unit. He was almost always in the right position and his anticipation and improved understanding of the defense helped him make a lot of plays.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Woah

stirred concern because he often giggled in meetings

Posted by: theredskin | September 11, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

screens, throw screens..send the WR's deep, let Osi, and Tuck, and whomever else FLY up field, and then throw screens over them to portis/betts.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Sticking to my prediction. Redskins 31, Giants 13.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 11, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Guys, let's be real.

We are not going to post 31 on the Giants, and we are not going to blow them out in the Meadowlands.

We can hope for a low-scoring game and steal a win - maybe something like 17-14.

We are not going to be successful going deep when they are throwing Tuck, Osi and Kiwi at us.

I know alot of us have visions of sugarplums along with a steady diet of deep completions dancing in our heads, but it's not going to happen.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

screens, throw screens..send the WR's deep, let Osi, and Tuck, and whomever else FLY up field, and then throw screens over them to portis/betts.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse


Thank you.

We need RB screens, Cooley screens, Moss bubble screens, and some good ol' fashion WCO 3-step drop quick slants.

We will need to take some deep stabs to keep them honest, and CP26 will likely grind out 80 yards on 25 carries. But if we win it will be b/c we execute a quick/short passing game, and who knows - maybe Moss can break free on a big play or 2.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

The Giants upgraded their defensive line this offseason.

Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard are new additions.They join the formidable DE trio of Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka and Dave Tollefson and stout tackles Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield and Jay Alford. Bernard, formerly of the Seattle Seahawks, is strictly a tackle, while Canty, the ex-Dallas Cowboy, will play both positions.

The heat is on...


Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

REPOST from previous article. JR runs 'um off so fast I can hardly keep up. That's cool. Keeps the load time down even if some of the info is rehash of previous stuff. He keeps it coming.

brownwood:

Top two CB's down sounds like a chance to strike in the passing game, provided of course:

1- the special teams play provides decent field position - a BIG if to my mind at this point.

2- the o-line does what's necessary to protect the passer.

3- all that extra practice with KELLY pays off.

Here's hopin'.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 11, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Dave Tollefson - who?

Jay Alford - out for the year

Chia, you need to get updated information, couple of these guys have been banged up all preseason long. Canty just had his first practice I believe this week.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

The obvious question for the mayor is how are the talks going to get the Skins back in DC where they belong as soon as possible.

Posted by: RedskinsFan1 | September 11, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

The obvious question for the mayor is how are the talks going to get the Skins back in DC where they belong as soon as possible.

Posted by: RedskinsFan1 | September 11, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

BTW im writing from Bangkok and still keeping tabs on RI. I will be back in time on Sunday to watch our Boys put it on the Giants. It will be a long trip home back home with a happy ending!

Posted by: gcoles32 | September 11, 2009 9:11 AM

I heard Bangkok and Happy Endings go hand in hand.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

we got to use Davis similar to how the Steelers ended up using Miller last night. Let old 47 go do what he normally does but have a guy who can do the safety valve thing, just chip shot blocks and be there if JC needs him.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 11, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Chris Canty - 6'7" 310 pounds

Balls will be tipped.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Oh thanks Beantown.

CB Kevin Dockery Hamstring
OL Adam Koets Ankle
CB Aaron Ross Hamstring
LB Clint Sintim Groin

Seems like their D Line is pretty healthy?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Chia_pet:

Yeah, hopefully his -- upward. Go 'SKINS. Kick some azz.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 11, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

... CB Kevin Dockery (hamstring) remains questionable for Sunday's game, while Aaron Ross (hamstring) is unlikely to play. So, if Dockery can't go, undrafted rookie Bruce Johnson, out of Miami (Fla.) will get the nod.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Stop calling yourself the mayor.
(or)
Stop referring to yourself in the third person.

Either way, we all win.

Posted by: HDiniMFO | September 11, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Dave Tollefson - who?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:55 AM


----------


#71, Dave Toffelson, DE, NY Giants

Born David Timothy Tollefson in Walnut Creek, Calif., on July 10, 1982.

Married (Megan). They have a son, Tucker Niles Tollefson (TNT), who was born last summer.

Majored in corporate recreation...An avid fisherman, he owns a bass boat along with three friends...Has lent volunteer assistance in the classroom and on field trips to his mother, Debi Crocker, who teaches developmentally disabled students at Concord (Calif.) High School.


Tollefson had a least a half-sack in each of his first 4 games in 2008.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

The obvious question for the mayor is how are the talks going to get the Skins back in DC where they belong as soon as possible.

Posted by: RedskinsFan1 | September 11, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

To mildly be a jerk, if you were really RedskinsFan1 you would know that Snyder said publicly 2 years ago that they will not move out of the old stadium until at the very least the deal with FedEx is up, they still have I think 15 years left on that.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 11, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Balls will be tipped.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

That's what she said.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

You have to wonder about the Giants signing all these D-linemen. Like somebody pointed out, Alvord is gone for the season and Canty has missed everything up to this point (but should play against Washington). Maybe the Giants knew something about their players that the rest of us didn't.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 11, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

You. Must. Respect. Toffelson.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

4th, would that be 'mano en mano'?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 11, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Canty will be lucky to see the field. he's been hurt all preseason. Plus, what did he ever do when he was in Dallas? I don't remember him being a problem.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Dave Tollefson - who?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 9:55 AM

----------

Toffelson has also made contributions off the field:

Played in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes Golf Outing Fundraiser.

Attended the Giants Kickoff Luncheon benefitting St. Vincent's Medical Center.

Visited cadets at West Point Military Academy, and cheered on their football team at "Giants Appreciation Day."

Attended Everyday Health's 2nd Anniversary Celebration.

Attended the Giants annual "Jingle Jam" holiday party at Giants Stadium for 500 N.J. foster children.

----------

'Nuff said...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

ds, the proper way of writing that I believe is "emu en emu"....translation was lost many years ago...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Canty will be lucky to see the field. he's been hurt all preseason. Plus, what did he ever do when he was in Dallas? I don't remember him being a problem.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:18 AM


That's because he was a DE in a 3-4. You usually won't hear anything about those guys. As a DT in a 4-3, he's got potential to be more disruptive.

Let's hope he's not.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Zorn couldn't trust Davis (he had problems learning the playbook and stirred concern because he often giggled in meetings

What da F!! GIGGLED IN MEETINGS, are you kidding me. what is this the pee-wee league.

Posted by: gre28man72 | September 11, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Plus, what did he ever do when he was in Dallas? I don't remember him being a problem.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:18 AM

----------


Chris Canty had 148 tackles, 10 sacks, and 8 passes defended over four seasons for the Dallas Cowboys.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

F Chris Canty....

Tell 'em Portis said so....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

6'7 DT, if I'm RT, or DD, I'm cutting that cats knees every play, cut him, then when he thinks you're gonna cut him, just bulldoze him into the ground...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Humor makes us weak!

BTW, that goes for RI, too.

Posted by: farstriker |


Now THAT's funny!

FYI In World War II, a German soldier could be shot for giggling in a meeting. And who won that war? The giggling GIs

The German word for Giggle is:

"Gergigglefarhtenhausenplotz"

Ironically, just saying that word could cause gales of laughter.

Posted by: TheCork | September 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Woah

stirred concern because he often giggled in meetings

Posted by: theredskin

I caught that, too. So, let's get this straight: it is okay for the starting running back to openly criticize his offensive line and later on his coach, but the rookie tight end giggles and he cannot play? Read between the lines: Zorn doesn't like rookies. Marko Mitchell will have to fight this season to get playing time. Luckily, Blache is not so near sighted and he'll play the best man, rookie or not.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Cool weather will keeps Haynesworth on the field more and mitigates the advantage of the Giants rotating its DLinemen.

Of course it would be best if Haynsworth was kept off the field a lot thanks to 3 and outs.

Hakeem Nicks scares me.

Posted by: TheCork | September 11, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Do you boys truly think we're going to run rough shot over the New York Football Giants?

Come on now.

Let's be realistic.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Hakeem Nicks scares me.

Posted by: TheCork | September 11, 2009 10:29 AM

----------

Me too.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

ds, the proper way of writing that I believe is "emu en emu"....translation was lost many years ago...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Though many scholars believe it to mean "A Whale's Vagina."

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Hakeem Nicks scares me.

Posted by: TheCork | September 11, 2009 10:29 AM

----------

Me too.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:30 AM

Not me. I'm more scared of Stevie Nicks than Hakeem.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Hakeem Nicks may scare me in the 2nd meeting between us. Not so much in his 1st game as a pro. I think our secondary can handle him and the other g-men receivers this time around. Especially if our front 7 can get to Eli early on.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

ds, the proper way of writing that I believe is "emu en emu"....translation was lost many years ago...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Though many scholars believe it to mean "A Whale's Vagina."

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Or, in a different dialect, Stevie Nicks' Vagina

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Personally, I don't know about Haynesworth and cool weather. I prefer to see him hot and bothered with his panties all in a bunch. Now that man scares me. He's so calm when he talks to the press.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

when do they announce who's dressing? very curious to see if Marko will be in the lineup. I think he's a little further along in his development than Thomas or Kelly were last year. Runs decent routes, blocks, knows playbook, works hard, has the respect of veterans. wouldn't be surprised if he's in the lineup.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

when do they announce who's dressing? very curious to see if Marko will be in the lineup. I think he's a little further along in his development than Thomas or Kelly were last year. Runs decent routes, blocks, knows playbook, works hard, has the respect of veterans. wouldn't be surprised if he's in the lineup.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse


I kinda hope they are all dressing, I am not that into seeing naked players.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 11, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

F Toffelson

My two areas that will decide the game:

1. Line play: This is obvious...no elaboration needed.

2. My secret key: Secondary play. I think the squad who's secondary can step up will win. IF Ginas young wideouts get stuffed thats huge for Skins. Can Skins take advantage of beat up ginas secondary? If they can't, long day for Skins.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Landry meet Mr. Nicks.

Not worried about Nicks.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

F Nicks

I will believe two TE sets when I see it. Consistently. Now its like Chessy the Bay Monster to me.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Hakeem Nicks scares me.

Posted by: TheCork | September 11, 2009 10:29 AM

----------

Me too.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 10:30 AM

Nicks will HARDLY be on the field. Those TDs he scored in the preseason came in the 2nd half against players no longer in the league.

I say he gets MAYBE 15 snaps...

NYG are the biggest fakers for 2009, closely followed behind Philly, closely followed behind NEPats.

The Pats will have to score 30+ evey week. Too much turnover on defense and their ground game is extremely suspect.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

cl, agreed, those two area's are key.

If the Redskins can't take advantage of the Giants depleted secondary, then thats going to be the story of the game right there...No reason that Moss/Are/Thomas/Kelly wont be able to get open when faced with an udfa lining up across from them....time to put the big boy pants on....time to earn your keep...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

when do they announce who's dressing? very curious to see if Marko will be in the lineup. I think he's a little further along in his development than Thomas or Kelly were last year. Runs decent routes, blocks, knows playbook, works hard, has the respect of veterans. wouldn't be surprised if he's in the lineup.

Posted by: brian58 | September 11, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse


I kinda hope they are all dressing, I am not that into seeing naked players.

Posted by: alex35332

Unless it's Stevie Nicks. I hear she's going to be there. Maybe we should be afraid of her because she's not dressing...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I for one would like to see M. Sellars truck over A. Pierce, much like Jacobs over Landry last year.

If we can get pressure on Manning, he does make a lot of mistakes under pressure and I think we can have a chance then...well if CR22 holds onto the ball. My big worry is D. Hall biting on Eli's pumps and hitches and getting beat deep...he is prone to that.

I cant F'n wait for Sunday, Hail Skins and Hail the Directv Football package!

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 11, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

"he often giggled in meetings"
WTF??
Game is on in Denver this weekend. Woop!
NFL Ticket is installed on Monday for the rest of the season. HTTR!!

Posted by: COskins | September 11, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Cl - I agree. We will see more 4 wide sets (with Coooooley split out) than we will see a double TE set. We will see 2 TEs on the field, but not as a traditional TEs at the same time.....

Like CP26 said, this won't be smash mouth Football. Bombs Over Baghdad this season. Gibbs thinking is finally out of the door.....

Book it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

"their ground game is extremely suspect"

Thats because they have the new, "tip-toe burgler", Fragile Fred Taylor.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

F Direct TV package....

I get the Red Zone Channel for free on FiOS. Vengence is mine......

Also,

F Eli
F BJacobs
F Tuck
F NY Hype
F AP

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

The skins v. jints is the most required viewing this weekend.

The panthas v. iggles, though, is the 1 o'clock game we'll be checking up on.

We list the pantha, bears, vikes, and saints as possible teams that might get in the way of our desire for a playoff run.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 11, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

F Verizon.

I'd rather have crappy cable service than to ever have to deal with those chode yodlers again.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Soup's going to throw deep in our first or second play from scrimmage, and I think it's going to the dude opposite Santana. That will be fair warning that it's gonna be a long day for that Gints secondary.

Two tight ends, whatever... man, we have so many options the front of the Gints' D won't even KNOW where the max protect is coming from. Hell yeah.

Alex, I didn't wear my jersey -- project review meeting with the exec team today, so it was out of the question to look even more like a clown than usual -- but I do have my burgundy Skins tee on under my yuptastic button-down worky work shirt, so I'm kind of representing.

F the Giants. F 'em today, tomorrow, and a thousand times Sunday.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 11, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Apologizes to the out of town skins fan...Re: F DTV....I am sooo spoiled because I always get the games...I forgot you guys don't......

HTTR

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

4th, while I agree. I do bristle at the Gibbs as only a conservative coach. Dude coached to the ability of his players. I mean this guy was part of Air Coryell, the Posse, highest scoring offense of all time 83, 1991 bombs away season.

Maybe gibbs 2.0 age had him a bit gunshy, but lets be honest...talent really wasn't their to be slinging it all over the field.

But whateves, new era...bombs over Baghdad AND Smash mouth! Don't have to be separate! Do what the situation calls for!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Fred "Giggles" Davis

come on giggles Focus!

Posted by: ccwbambam | September 11, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"Using Two Tight Ends Is One Option"

The other being four wide sets with quick passes and draws plays that attack defensive ends who don't maintain gap discipline.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 11, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins need a novel play to start the season like when Miami unveiled the Wildcat against New England last year. I've got this idea we could call it the "Wild Hog" formation. We line up Mike Williams as full back, Sellers as the running back, and CP as the QB. Direct snap to Portis, Portis grabs Sellers belt loop, Sellers grabs Mike Williams belt loop and then plow straight ahead. It's a shame that Williams lost all that weight because this play would be really funny with a 400 lb fullback...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

"Using Two Tight Ends Is One Option," part 2


So long as both tight ends want the same money, it is indeed the best option.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 11, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

4th, as an out of town fan...still F direct TV. I HATE their exclusive contract. I would pay ANYTHING to get NFL package via my cable provider like every other sport.

And to add insult to injustice, Direct TV has finally introduced web streaming package.....except MANHATTAN ONLY!!!! F DIRECT TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to 205th Bar for me. Which means every sunday I will be 3/4 drunk and bloated on guiness and wings and 40 buck broker. But HOPEFULLY happy!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I think the fact that we can seriously consider 2 TE sets and 4 WR sets just goes to show how this team has become so much more versatile. I expect to see those things eventually, but in this game I'll consider it a small victory if we just give JC some better pass pro than last year. I think Zorn needs to know the line will protect before he gets creative. Otherwise he'll shut it down like he did last year.

Posted by: pgugino | September 11, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"... CB Kevin Dockery (hamstring) remains questionable for Sunday's game, while Aaron Ross (hamstring) is unlikely to play. So, if Dockery can't go, undrafted rookie Bruce Johnson, out of Miami (Fla.) will get the nod.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

I called this earlier in the week, but with this news, I'm betting big. When everyone was making predictions on how Zorn would gameplan and/or start the game, I said Zorn would open the playbook, spread the field, and attack. I also said within the first 3/4 plays for the offense, it would be Devin Thomas, not Malcolm Kelly, that gets his number called for the big shot down the field. I'm feeling better by the day about this prediction. Devin Thomas matched up on an undrafted rookie? Yes sir.

Posted by: psps23 | September 11, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

"So, let's get this straight: it is okay for the starting running back to openly criticize his offensive line and later on his coach, but the rookie tight end giggles and he cannot play?" - Posted by: RedSkinHead

*sigh*


Clinton Portis called out his head coach, yes, that part's right. But not until Zorn had sublimnal bs to spew to the media. That whole episode spoke to Zorn's character more than Clinton's IMO.

Why does the fact that Zorn called out Portis in the media, for NO REASON always gets overlooked?

Zorn wanted to implement his style becasue like Portis, he has a big ego.

Such a big ego.

But for some reason Zorn gets a pass. Why? Becasue he's the head coach? B***s***!

I'm not sold on that fact anyway.

A look at Zorn and coaching in the NFL:

QBs coach for several years... Looked over and past for any other position both internally and externally... HC of prior team announces he's retiring at the end of season, but names the DBs coach, who at that point wasn't even on the team a year yet... Hired by 'skins as offensive coordinator... front office completely f's up the head coaching search... after realizing no viable HC will coach the team 'casue of Snyder, Snyder and Cerrato choose Zorn.

Zorn getting HC job = Lifting up your sofa cushions and finding 5 dollars worth of change

Posted by: RedDMV | September 11, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

That's what I am saying Cl. We have the talent to bomb it and party like it's 1991. As Gibbs (and Norv for Dallas later) showed, you can't directly install Air Coryell as a whole up here. The issue is '8 in the box' will be constant until JC17 chucks it down the field. Therefore, smash mouth, we will not be (but can when we need to after we prove everyone wrong). But I still see CP26 getting 1500+. But we will be scoring more and CP will have less carries.

The chucking will begin Sunday @ 4:15pm....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Skins FB is like heroin. I am so irrationally jacked up right now. Dazed, dreamy, jittery, excited. But at about 645 Sunday night my stomach will be in knots, I will be on the verge of puking and I will be irritable and annoying to those I love.

And then I will repeat it all the following week.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Easy there, big fella.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 11, 2009 9:40 AM


That's what she said

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 11, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

We list the pantha, bears, vikes, and saints as possible teams that might get in the way of our desire for a playoff run.

Posted by: MistaMoe


I can agree with everyone on that list except the Saints.

I don't care how many additions they made to their secondary (Excuse me if I don't cream my khakis over a 34 year old FS), I'm not convinced that their defense has drank some magic juice and will all the sudden beast out.

Same Saints D. Different faces. Their offense will once again have to score 35 point ppg.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 11, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Oh and the Bears?

Besides Matt Forte on offense, who worries defenses? Maybe the dude Olson, but who else?

Their defense is getting older as well.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 11, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Juries out on improved Sainst D, agreed Red. But if they even improve a little it could mean a lot for that team.

Can't wait to see....FB IS BACK BABEE!!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I keep reading exhortations to bomb the defense with deep throws... you know that's not how the WCO works, right? At heart, it's a ball control offense, relying on the pass to establish the run rather than the other way round. Deep throws have a place, but they're not the primary method for advancing the ball.

Favre and McNabb are great at throwing deep, but they spend much of the game setting it up with dinks and dunks...

And the running game. WCO teams run the ball a lot, and successfully.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 11, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"on the verge of puking"

Wont that be more from the Guiness, and wings??

I hear you cl, I get, and I'm trying to be better about this, I get REALLY, REALLY not fun to be around during a Redskins game. The wife is despite her choice in husband, great about the whole thing, gives me space to watch the game, and occupies the kids....."I'm Greg, and I'm a redskinaholic"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Skins FB is like heroin. I am so irrationally jacked up right now. Dazed, dreamy, jittery, excited. But at about 645 Sunday night my stomach will be in knots, I will be on the verge of puking and I will be irritable and annoying to those I love.

And then I will repeat it all the following week.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:20 AM


Sounds like Joe Gibbs, almost verbatim. Is that from his book?

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I keep reading exhortations to bomb the defense with deep throws... you know that's not how the WCO works, right? At heart, it's a ball control offense, relying on the pass to establish the run rather than the other way round. Deep throws have a place, but they're not the primary method for advancing the ball.

Favre and McNabb are great at throwing deep, but they spend much of the game setting it up with dinks and dunks...

And the running game. WCO teams run the ball a lot, and successfully.

Posted by: Samson151

I know. I know. For once, I would like to see Zorn step out of that WCO box and run some play action deep passes.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

did you guys catch big Ben absolutely FREEZING guys with his pump fakes?? I'd like to see JC work that into his resume...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"Same Saints D. Different faces. Their offense will once again have to score 35 point ppg.Posted by: RedDMV"

The Saints look like a lot like passing juggernauts from years past -- the old Rams, the Coryell teams at San Diego. The offense scores very fast, which is good, but leaves the defense to rush out on the field for extended periods, which is bad. It's counter-intuitive, but somehow an offense that doesn't hold the ball long enough puts extra pressure on the defense.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 11, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I don't care how many additions they made to their secondary (Excuse me if I don't cream my khakis over a 34 year old FS), I'm not convinced that their defense has drank some magic juice and will all the sudden beast out.

Same Saints D. Different faces. Their offense will once again have to score 35 point ppg.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 11, 2009 11:24 AM


I don't know, Red...the guys they got there aren't much worse than what Greggggg had to work with when he was here. His presence along puts them in the top half of the league in D, if not top 10. Besides, with that offense you don't need to be great on D, just adequate.

I've got the Saints winning the NFC and getting their taints handed to them by Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. You heard it here first.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Juries out on improved Sainst D, agreed Red. But if they even improve a little it could mean a lot for that team.

Can't wait to see....FB IS BACK BABEE!!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 11:29 AM

Will Smith and Charles Grant will be suspended 4 games each. Take THAT Gregggg W.

When do we play them?

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I know. I know. For once, I would like to see Zorn step out of that WCO box and run some play action deep passes.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse


For once, I'd like to see Zorn stay in the WCO box and actually see the offense execute it effectively over the course of several drives.

And I don't think the Giants are the team that we want to drop back and try to throw bombs on...let's wait until we face a team that does not have Osi, Kiwi, and Tuck on the roster.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

did you guys catch big Ben absolutely FREEZING guys with his pump fakes?? I'd like to see JC work that into his resume...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:37 AM

He must've seen something in film study because I swear he pump faked EVERY time he threw. Ben is the best at it, but I can't believe Tennessee's inability to make that adjustment.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

did you guys catch big Ben absolutely FREEZING guys with his pump fakes?? I'd like to see JC work that into his resume...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse


Queue up his TD against the Pats...

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I heard Bangkok and Happy Endings go hand in hand.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 9:56 AM

hand/hand, body/body, speschy/speschy ... it all kept me giggling in a meeting.

Take a lesson from cL, kids, NCAA football is a gateway sport.

Two tight ends, plus Santana and Kelly, with Portis/Betts chipping and heading the shallow middle? Do that a few times and the deep game becomes wide open.

[p.s. ARE was never intended to be the #2 receiver/flanker ... that was supposed to be Blloyd ... ARE was hired to be the slot receiver and the punt returner ... which means that the "plan" finally is going to work. The "plan" for Thomas was to return kicks (replace Rock) and ideally be there as the replacement for Moss ... it'll happen eventually.]

Posted by: dcsween | September 11, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else have that Bombs over Baghdad song in their heads?

I've got the Redskins jersey on at work today, but since I live near LA everyone thinks I'm wearing a slightly off-color USC jersey.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 11, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

When do we play them?

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 11:40 AM

December 8th* @ FedEx

* dcsween's birthday

Posted by: dcsween | September 11, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't know, Red...the guys they got there aren't much worse than what Greggggg had to work with when he was here. His presence along puts them in the top half of the league in D, if not top 10.


Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Jack Del Rio and the 2008 Jaguars would beg to differ.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else have that Bombs over Baghdad song in their heads?


Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 11, 2009 11:44 AM

I usually have a random jumble of musical mayhem in my head, but yes...that Portis quote did pop that song into my head. I'll also be popping that CD into my car later.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Jack Del Rio and the 2008 Jaguars would beg to differ.


Posted by: Original_etrod | September 11, 2009 11:47 AM


Touche...

My other outside-the-box prediction is for the Houston Texans to go 12-4 and win the AFC South...and promptly do like the other team in Texas and go one-and-done in the playoffs. You heard it here first.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

p1funk,
We are on different wave lengths fundamentally. I think the WCO is not a good fit for this QB or for a team in the blitz-happy NFC East. I think the only way you can stop the blitz is by burning the other team deep. If a blitzing team knows all you do is dink passes then this gives them more of an opportunity to crowd the line of scrimmage. I think in this day and age of fire zone blitzes, this makes the WCO a poor choice as an offense. What I think, however, is moot because we are stuck with Zorn and he is devoted to the WCO.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Just because it came up on here earlier:

Vikings win, Saints lose StarCaps appeal
Posted by Mike Florio on September 11, 2009 11:22 AM ET
A ruling was expected before the start of the 2009 football season. As to the teams involved, the expectations were accurate.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit has affirmed in all respects the decision of District Judge Paul Magnuson in the so-called StarCaps case. (Thanks to Sean Jensen of the St. Paul Pioneer press for pointing out to us that the decision has been posted on the Eighth Circuit's web site.)

The short answer to the obvious question of "What the hell does that mean?" is that Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams will not be suspended four games after testing positive in 2008 for a prescription diuretic that also is a banned substance, and that Saints defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith will be suspended for testing positive for the same substance, which secretly had been added to an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement known as StarCaps.

Both Grant and Smith will play this week against the Lions, since the decision came after Tuesday. The suspensions, barring something incredibly unforeseen, will start next week.

There has been talk that the league might allow the Saints to implement the suspensions consecutively, so that they aren't without both players for four games. Instead, they'd be missing one of them for eight games.

If Grant and Smith serve their suspensions concurrently, the delay will mean that, instead of missing the Lions game in Week One and being available to play against the Giants, the players will be on the field against Detroit but not able when the Giants come to town for the fifth game of the year.

Also, they'd be suspended for the bye week, which lands a week before the Giants game.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

"I think the WCO is not a good fit for this QB or for a team in the blitz-happy NFC East"

rsh, what kind of offense has Philly been running the past 10 years....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

brownie, I think the Gibbs book was a little more Jesusy than cL's post above, and maybe a little less drinky.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 11, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

With Week 1 and a divisional rival queued up, my hate-juices are flowing and I've just got to get some things off my chest.


10 Things I Hate About the NFC East

1) Cowboy fans with no connection to Texas/city of Dallas

2) Cowboy fans in general

3) Anything related to Tony Romo

4) Camera shots of Eli Manning's droopy Cletus-mug on the sideline

5) News coverage from Sal Paolantonio about Donovan McNabb's relationship with the Philly fan base

6) Camera shots of the Manning family in the stands watching Eli and all the ensuing crap we have to hear about Archie and Co.

7) TV networks that employ ex-Cowboys from the 90's Superbowl teams to do Skins games

8) Dan Snyder

9) Annual SI writer's love affair with all the NFC East teams except the Redskins

10) Brian Westbrook constantly being "questionable" for games and then torching us for 150 all-purpose yards and a couple TDs

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I hear ya, but I'm still not vouching for the Saints.

brown, you got the Texans going 12-4? Damn man, that's worse than my Lions over Titans pick for last years T-giving day game.

I will be at the Saints game in December...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

p1funk,
We are on different wave lengths fundamentally. I think the WCO is not a good fit for this QB or for a team in the blitz-happy NFC East. I think the only way you can stop the blitz is by burning the other team deep. If a blitzing team knows all you do is dink passes then this gives them more of an opportunity to crowd the line of scrimmage. I think in this day and age of fire zone blitzes, this makes the WCO a poor choice as an offense. What I think, however, is moot because we are stuck with Zorn and he is devoted to the WCO.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse


It's not the "blitz" I'm worried about w/ the Giants. They don't need to blitz. Their DEs get past linemen w/out help.

You neutralize an effective pass-rush by getting the ball out quick - that's what WCO traditionally does.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

The wife is despite her choice in husband, great about the whole thing, gives me space to watch the game, and occupies the kids....."I'm Greg, and I'm a redskinaholic"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 11:30 AM

MAybe we should go on that wife swap tv show so I can watch the game in peace. My wife will not hesitate to dump kids on me, request Ice Cream from Cold Stone, take out the trash, such as.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Jason
It's called STEPPING-UP IN THE POCKET!! Learn it, practice it, live it.

Posted by: tapscott_k | September 11, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1,
Touche'. I'd argue that the Philly offense is not the puristic version that Jim Zorn wants to run in Washington. Also, and I quote directly from Wiki:

The Eagles remain the only NFC East team without a Super Bowl championship with the rest of the division accounting for 11 Super Bowl titles collectively.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

4th, haha, thats some funny stuff..."honey can you take out the trash"....I'd respond with sure, as soon as halftime/end of game .....and depending on the outcome, would determine how the trash got to its end destination.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

My wife will, like clock work, throw a humongous irrational meltdown sometime within the surrounding 10 days of opening week.

This year add a kid to the mix. "You are at the bar every sunday!"

My ploy: Pure bribery....sure we can try that new restuarant, yes get the spa treatment, yes I will stay home while you go out with GFs 6 nights a week....

Still works only sometimes.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Funny wife stories guys...mine hates football so much she just leaves the room and stays the hell away from me altogether after 1pm on Sundays. The only time she's not that accomodating is if I'm still watching football highlights and my daughter still hasn't had a bath before bed. Otherwise, she was forewarned and I specifically had it added to the vows so she'd have no excuse later.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 11, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Also since recent history dictates few happy sunday evenings I usually pick some dumb half drunk fight to displace my angst over loss...

NOT THIS YEAR BABEE!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Bean/cl,

You guys simply have to convert your women.

My wife converted to Skinsianity as a stipulation of our marriage.

I just explained to her in clear calm terms that we are going to be a "Redskins household".

I took her out to some games for the fun of it to get her around the stadium/fans and that helped as well.

Now she rocks the CP26 jersey and we get the kids in Skins gear on Sundays too...

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

rsh, how about the overall success they've had running the WCO, I mean you can't simply ignore that....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

My predictions:

3-3 against the nfc east
4-0 against the afc west (the chargers will be resting players)
2-2 against the nfc south
2-0 against the rams and lions

11-5 overall wins a wildcard

Posted by: ccwbambam | September 11, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

p1, oh my wife gets it, she bought tix to the Dallas game in November last year for our anniversary, so she understands...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

p1, oh my wife gets it, she bought tix to the Dallas game in November last year for our anniversary, so she understands...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 11, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse


Amen. Sounds like a keeper.

Posted by: p1funk | September 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Kuddos to you pfunk....

My wife is the 5th child, all older brothers (welcome to my hell) all sports (skins at least!) fanatics AND a sports nut dad (bears...gaga). So she was turned off at an early age.

As a girl she broke her arm and her dad made her wait until half time to deal with it. So I have no shot.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 11, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

LMAO at Cl and BW...

I consistently watch NFLN. My wife tells me, 'Didn't you see this game already?' OR 'You're not missing anything. The Redskins will lose.'

And during the season, 'Do you have to watch EVERY game that comes on? The Redskins ain't playing.'

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 11, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"I keep reading exhortations to bomb the defense with deep throws... you know that's not how the WCO works, right? At heart, it's a ball control offense, relying on the pass to establish the run rather than the other way round. Deep throws have a place, but they're not the primary method for advancing the ball.

Favre and McNabb are great at throwing deep, but they spend much of the game setting it up with dinks and dunks...

And the running game. WCO teams run the ball a lot, and successfully."

The WCO is merely a playbook and terminology, but the philosophy is all coach. Andy Reid runs about a 60/40 pass to run ratio, the Holmgren Seahawks ran a 48/52 pass to run ratio, and the McCarthy Packers run a 55/45 pass to run ratio. Shanahan ran a 62/38 pass to run ratio last year, but in 2005 ran a 46/54 pass to run ratio.

Likewise with YPA, McNabb's career YPA is around 6.8, but he's gone as high as 8.3 and 8.4 in a season (one of which happened to coincide with his most successful season, by far). One year it's dink and dunk, another it's get the ball downfield quickly. Those years depended on his personnel groupings.

There is no set philosophy with the WCO. Some dink and dunk, some stretch the field, some run heavy, some pass heavy. The WCO is no more than a playbook and terminology.

Posted by: psps23 | September 11, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

cL, this Oct. Liz and I will have 25 years of marriage and she is finally sitting down to watch FB w/me. Early in the marriage I had to plan out what games I wanted to watch and did the family thing. Several years ago I took up doing the laundry on Sundays (we have two kids, so it was almost an all day job) and have enjoyed Sundays from that day forward. At least as much as the Skins allowed me to enjoy Sundays.

[the draw back is that laundry last 52 weeks per year as opposed to 19 weeks of football. it's been worth it!]

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 11, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1,
I'll grant you that the WCO is popular and has had some success. I think the WCO's proliferation has forced teams to come up with all kinds of defenses to counter it, and therefore, it is no longer as effective an offense as it used to be. Personally, I think putting a label on an offense automatically limits it. I wish Zorn would throw out the label of "west coast offense". If he has to call it anything, then call it the "Redskins Offense", but I would prefer no name at all. Then he should tailor plays that best suit his personnel. New Orleans had the number one offense in the league last year and I think they got there by using their personnel the best way they could. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "Zorn doesn't do that".

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 11, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

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