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What I Think: The Tampa Bay Edition

The heat isn't as intense on Coach Jim Zorn after Sunday's 16-13 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. There still is, however, a lot happening with the Redskins, and much of it isn't positive. Obviously, these times demand another installment of Here's What Happened/Here's What I Think. Let's get it started.

Here's what happened: Zorn stuck with quarterback Jason Campbell in the second half against the Buccaneers (0-4) despite his three-turnover half (two interceptions, one lost fumble) after which Washington trailed, 10-0.

Campbell finished with three interceptions in a four-turnover performance, but he also threw two second-half touchdowns to lead Washington to a three-point victory.

Here's what I think: For better or worse, Campbell and Zorn are linked, and both understand the situation. Sure, Zorn could have turned to longtime backup Todd Collins, which probably would have pleased many fans who remember how well Collins played during the season-ending four-game winning streak in 2007 that resulted in a NFC wild-card berth.

But then what? Zorn was hired to be the offensive coordinator and then quickly promoted to head coach in large part because owner Daniel Snyder believed Zorn, a successful quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks, could develop Campbell, a first-round draft pick, into a top-notch quarterback.

The potential improvement of Campbell remains Zorn's biggest chip with Snyder. And Zorn obviously believes Campbell possesses more talent than Collins.

If Collins had entered the game and led the Redskins to the win, it would have been difficult for Zorn to turn back to Campbell. If Collins had come in and struggled as Washington lost, the quarterback position would have been completely destabilized with scrutiny about Zorn's job status increasing.

Zorn has many roster problems to deal with, so he didn't need a quarterback controversy, too. Campbell did just enough to shelve that issue for at least another week.

Here's what happened: Through the first four games, No. 2 wide receiver Malcolm Kelly has six receptions for 68 yards and no touchdowns. Kelly had no receptions in the victory over Tampa Bay.

Wide receiver Devin Thomas, Washington's first pick in the 2008 draft, has only one reception for seven yards and pass-catching tight end Fred Davis, who is expected to play a significant role this season, has three receptions for 10 yards. Against the Buccaneers, Davis lost a yard on his only catch.

Here's what I think: It would be easy to label Thomas, Davis and Kelly -- Washington's top three picks in the 2008 draft -- busts at this point, but I don't think that would be fair or accurate.

Kelly is athletic and has the best hands of any Redskins receiver. If the ball is thrown in his vicinity, even in a crowd, the former Oklahoma Sooner standout will be in the mix for the reception.

I also really like Kelly's attitude. He impressed many in the organization in working hard to rehabilitate after microfracture knee surgery after last season, and I believe he will be a productive NFL receiver if his knee holds up.

This is essentially Kelly's rookie season. He should have been placed on the season-ending injured reserve list early last season because of his knee problem (he wound up playing in just four games).

He doesn't run all routes equally well, which isn't surprising for a young wideout, and he and Campbell are still trying to get in sync on deep balls. Campbell holds Kelly in high regard, and two of Campbell's interceptions against the Buccaneers occurred while he was trying to get the ball to Kelly.

Because he's 6-feet-4 and 227 pounds, Kelly could be huge in the passing game, particularly where the Redskins' have their biggest problems: the red zone. Campbell and Zorn realize they must get Kelly involved, so just give the kid a little more time.

I've been told Thomas has displayed more maturity recently. But after disappearing mentally for a stretch during camp when the Redskins were basically trying to hand him the starting flanker spot, it's really not surprising Thomas hasn't been among Campbell's top targets.

Thomas is behind Kelly on the depth chart. And on the field, Campbell still has a lot more faith in top wideout Santana Moss, Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley and slot receiver Antwaan Randle El.

As for Davis, well, I'd rather not write anything critical of a Trojan, but he's still lost, I've been told. Davis had problems with remembering plays and giggling in team meetings last season.

Although I haven't heard too much about Davis's giggling this season, he still hasn't earned the confidence of the coaching staff. In the preseason, there was talk of the Redskins often using two-tight-end sets, but Davis, obviously, has not given any indication he's ready to roll like that yet.

Here's what happened: A week after defeating the Redskins to end their losing streak at 19, the Detroit Lions lost, 48-24, to the Chicago Bears.

The St. Louis Rams (0-4), whom the Redskins struggled to defeat by two points, have lost their last two games by 54 points combined and have been outscored by 84 points overall.

The Buccaneers (0-4) held a 10-point halftime lead at FedEx Field and produced 229 total net yards on offense. A week earlier on their home field against the New York Giants, Tampa Bay was shut out, 24-0, and had 86 yards of offense.

Here's what I think: I know a lot of fans are down on Zorn, but he's the same person who many considered a refreshing change of pace to former coach Joe Gibbs when the Redskins started 6-2 last season.

Zorn has made mistakes in game management and play-calling. His decision-making in the loss to the Lions was definitely questionable.

But here's the thing: When you look at comparative scores and the overall performances of Washington's previous three opponents, the Redskins' biggest problem clearly is their talent level.

The Lions defeated the Redskins by five points, then lost to the Bears by 24 a week later. The Bears were on their home field, and I get that. But that alone does not account for Detroit experiencing a 29-point swing in a week.

Washington defeated St. Louis, 9-7. The Rams' other three opponents outscored them by an average of 27.3 points. Even if Zorn is the worst coach to have ever walked an NFL sideline, the numbers don't add up to everything being his fault. Not even close.

More from Zorn

Zorn spoke on ESPN980 about what it would have taken for him to have benched Campbell, via D.C. Sports Bog aka Dan Steinberg.

By Jason Reid  |  October 6, 2009; 3:05 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Pakulak Signed to Practice Squad; Shelton Dropped

Comments

Does anyone else have a bad feeling about the game this weekend? The Panthers are coming off a bye and are reportedly looking at this game against the Skins as a new start to their season.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 6, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

By now, how don't you have a bad feeling about every game?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

the redskins are terrible

Posted by: BMACattack | October 6, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"But then what? Zorn was hired to be the offensive coordinator and then quickly promoted to head coach in large part because owner Daniel Snyder believed Zorn, a successful quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks, could develop Campbell, a first-round draft pick, into a top-notch quarterback."

How soon they forget. Didn't the owner come to the realization that JC can't get it done and try to get rid of him? I don't think this argument carries anymore weight. JC is done here. Even psp23 can't deny this.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | October 6, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

The redskins have horrible talent on the Offensive line, and that has huge - down right devistating - ramifications on the rest of the offense.

Second point: other teams have rookie wideouts who get involved during their rookie year. Are they Jerry Rice from their first game? No, but they contribute. The fact that these three receivers cannot help the offense says, first, that the problems with the offense really hurts the development of our younger players (it is our poor offense that stunts their growth, not their poor performance hurting our offense) and second, the team itself, or at least its leaders, do not carry the gravitas to get these young guys to completely buy into the system or take their jobs seriously.

Either way, things do not look promising. Oh ya, Michael Oher is starting for the Ravens (ya, those Ravens) at left tackle. good thing we didn't get him, otherwise we may be able to run the ball on offense.

Posted by: whughes1 | October 6, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm simply holding others to the same standard that they're holding Campbell to. Unfortunately, several of you fail to see that.

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Ps for the last time no your are not trying to hold others to the same standard. You are elevating JC's situation because you are a Redskins fan and apparently a JC fan. Inside of two minutes with no timeouts against a 3 man rush against the Giants is not the same as two long drives with timeouts starting with almost 6 minutes on the clock against a defense that never let up once the whole game. A late junk TD against the freaking Lions is not the same. 2 late TDs against a putrid Bucs team is not the same. hanging 9 points on the only mutual opponent we've played when they scored 36 on them is not the same. And don't act like scoring 24 on Cincy this year is nothing, Cincy's D is for real, they beat the reigning Super Bowl Champs, its the most points they've given up, and Cincy is 3 and 1 and a crazy week one fluke play from being undefeated.

They destroyed the only common opponent they've played, they beat a Bears team that just hung 48 points on the Lions who we lost to, Cincy is not last years Cincy, and most people look at Minny as a Superbowl contender. All this while JC has struggled against the dregs of the NFL.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 6, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 6, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think about LH and RedDMV's assesment:

HaHaHa....I'm sorry, I'm just not sold on Clausen. Ever since the Army High School All Star game. Has nothing to do with me being a Wolverines fan. The only time I root against ND is that one game.

Book it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 6, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

4th, he's a college junior now. What are you talking about? Have you seen ND play this year?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | October 6, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Carolina game is a lost, that's unless we get a bunch of delhomy turnovers, then we got a chance. Steve smith usually tees off on us, and their ground attack is pretty nice.
Their defense is not the same dominant def. of the past, julius peppers not the beast he used to be for sure. He seems like he put on some weight and doesn't appear to have same quickness.

2 mediocre teams anything could happen, but carolina playing at home, winless, and coming off week rest.

Posted by: bhoang888 | October 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Some subtle jabs at the front office from JReid, no?

Posted by: mattylight | October 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"How soon they forget. Didn't the owner come to the realization that JC can't get it done and try to get rid of him? I don't think this argument carries anymore weight. JC is done here. Even psp23 can't deny this.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Then why didn't Zorn bench Campbell?

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Julius Peppers will line up on Heyer and issue catcalls in between plays that end with Heyer on his backside and Peppers knee-deep in JC's gluteus maximus.

Posted by: pgugino | October 6, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Someone please slap those 2nd yr receivers!!! What about the WR coach? Shouldn't he be getting some heat for not developing these guys? All over the league 1st and 2nd yr WRs are doing grand things.

Posted by: KBDC | October 6, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Clausen has been awesome playing with a busted foot. He can't even plant right, and despite it he's playing better than JC. In addition, I'm sure Weis isn't playing a spread college offense that has no translation to the NFL. So he'll be more ready than some of the others. JMO.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | October 6, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"A late junk TD against the freaking Lions is not the same. 2 late TDs against a putrid Bucs team is not the same."

You've lost all credibility with your argument here.

We won the Bucs game. Campbell threw 2 TDs in a comeback effort.

Aaron Rodgers throws a late 4th quarter TD in a 30-14 game and loses, but somehow, you'd rather see that out of a QB.

And this is why I switched over to discussing with LH.

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

To paraphrase Pacino in "And Justice For All":

"The front office is out of order! The coaches are out of order! The players are out of order! The whole damn franchise is out of order! They're all out of order!"

Posted by: RedDMV | October 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Rush Limbaugh wants to be an NFL team owner.

In a statement released today, Limbaugh said he's partnering with St. Louis Blues owner Dave Checketts in a bid to buy the St. Louis Rams. Limbaugh didn't go into details, but said he and Checketts "have made a bid to buy the Rams and are continuing the process."

can he buy our team instead????

Posted by: connskins | October 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I've seen 4 out of the 5 games. Not sold. Call me stubborn.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 6, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I agree we have some subpar talent. But I also think this team just doesn't show fire or much heart. If you have to talk about how much heart you have then flags go up for me.
I watched a bunch of games this weekend and when watching good teams that play with fire like NO, Minny, Ravens, Pitt etc. it is night and day compared to us.

When I watch us I don't believe that the players believe in the team, in each other or in the game. So the scary thing is we could go 4-2 because we play Carolina and KC and we could squeak out wins and then I wonder do the players start to believe in hype that shouldn't be there? Because after KC it is a crucible for us and we are going to be exposed by a lot of teams who are playing like they have something to play for.

Posted by: sfskin | October 6, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Why does Snyder continue surrounding himself with awkward front men -- Cerrato, Zorn? Watching Vinny on his stupid show is like being in the inner circle of Hell. Zorn's press conferences are in that same neighborhood.

Posted by: pgugino | October 6, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

By now, how don't you have a bad feeling about every game?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

As soon as I hit the 'post' button I thought that same thing. I actually had a good feeling before the Lions, Rams and Bucs games and it just made it even more painful to watch. I figure if I go into it with a bad feeling I may not want to kick my dog all Sunday evening.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 6, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Jason, I don't think Zorn's job security is dependent upon Campbell. If it is, he better have some resumes on the ready. His only hope for retaining his job is to win games, with or without Campbell. If Zorn wants to keep his job, he's got to give up the Jason Campbell salvation project and put in the guy who will run his offense best. Who cares if Colins isn't the future franchise QB? The organization already knows that Campbell isn't, so if Zorn abandons Campbell, he surely won't offend the owner or his sidekick.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | October 6, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah. The Redskins are mediocre and the Panthers are bad but were not good enough to win on the road yet, unless they Delhomme throws some picks. Oh yeah, Carlos Rogers can't catch, oh well there goes that.

Posted by: KBDC | October 6, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

so who goes if the skins sign a punter for a game??? word is that monty maybe heading to the ir...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | October 6, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I've seen 4 out of the 5 games. Not sold. Call me stubborn.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 6, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Could you maybe...I dunno...give an actual reason?

Posted by: mattylight | October 6, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

One problem with this team is they all believe they are better than they actually are. Other than LF59 has anyone else said they are just simply not that good from top to bottom? Maybe if they saw themselves for what they are they would come out with a little more urgency and fire.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | October 6, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"Rush Limbaugh wants to be an NFL team owner."


This will bring back media chatta about his remarks about D McNabb from his short-lived ESPN-gig.

It seems Rush has an issue with quarterblacks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 6, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"A late junk TD against the freaking Lions is not the same. 2 late TDs against a putrid Bucs team is not the same."

You've lost all credibility with your argument here.

We won the Bucs game. Campbell threw 2 TDs in a comeback effort.

Aaron Rodgers throws a late 4th quarter TD in a 30-14 game and loses, but somehow, you'd rather see that out of a QB.

And this is why I switched over to discussing with LH.

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

OMFG! there is no explaining this to you is there? JC also threw 3 picks in that Tampa game (it should have been 4 if they don't drop the one of the Umpires head) which has the 2nd to worst defense in the league. That team has given up 34, 33, and 24 points its first 3 games and wasn't remotely competitive in any of those games. JC still manage to throw a late pick to keep it competitive and give them the ball with time left on the clock in decent field position needing on a FG to tie. To even pretend that just because he threw two TDs and we won the game giving him 170 yds 2 TDs and 4 turnovers against a team that coming in to the game had the worst defense in the NFL is remotely remotely a defensible performance and in the same realm as Rodgers effort last night. You sir are a moron.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 6, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what kind of offense they run at ND so can't comment on Clausen's ability to play pro style system.

I do know that his "amazing" stats this year have come against some pretty weak competition. Sorry if I am not overwhelmed by him leading his team back from almost losing to Washington.

I'd like to see what he can do against USC or some tougher comp. I'm not too high on players coming out of ND in general. They consistently recruit top 10 classes and have been underwhelming for the better part of 10 yrs.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 6, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

In a statement released today, Limbaugh said he's partnering with St. Louis Blues owner Dave Checketts in a bid to buy the St. Louis Rams. Limbaugh didn't go into details, but said he and Checketts "have made a bid to buy the Rams and are continuing the process."

can he buy our team instead????

Posted by: connskins | October 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

If he did I would probably burn the freaking stadium down. Having that nut-job as an owner would destroy the fan-base in a region that is super majority liberal.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 6, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

So Washington has a problem with talent. I can believe that. One thing that nobody brings up is the lack of draft quality brought here under Joe Gibbs. Everybody wants to throw Vinny under the bus, but when Gibbs was the coach, he was also in charge of all personnel decisions, including the draft. In Gibbs' four years in charge, he traded second round draft picks three times. He gave up a first round pick to take Campbell. And with four years of "second day" picks, the only keepers he brought in were Blades, Golston, Montgomery and Doughty. In one year, Vinny has brought in Horton, Moore and Tryon, Mitchell is looking good out of this year's draft. It might take a few drafts to catch up to the rest of the NFL, due to the four years of poor drafting by Gibbs.

Posted by: midniterc | October 6, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

c'mon psps23, you can't be serious about the JC/Rogers comparison. If you asked all 32 GMs to build a new team starting with either Rogers or Campbell, do you think even one would take more than 1 second to make that decision? There isn't even a comparison. The Broncos picked noodle-armed Orton over Campbell. Please. This is a ridiculous discussion.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | October 6, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I am a NY Giants fan who lives in the DC area. I had no problem with the 'Skins back in the days of Gibbs vs. Parcells.

But since The Danny took over....all Ravens, all the time. I live in MD anyways.

But look at the situation like this....you all are tied with Dallas. If the 'Skins can keep it together they can maybe finish in front of the Cowgirls.

Posted by: keithrjackson | October 6, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

You keep harping on JC's performance against the Bucs, but I hope even you can admit that was an aberration for him -- he usually doesn't throw that many picks. Much of the criticism of him in the past has been his conservative nature and fear of making the big mistake. If you want to compare Rodgers game last night to something, wouldn't a more fair comparison be JC's stats against the Giants?

Posted by: mattylight | October 6, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

can he buy our team instead????

Posted by: connskins
+++++++++

Holy crap that would be the worst thing in the world. You just know he'd use the stadium to spread his outrageous political viewpoints. That guy represents all that is evil and wrong in politics. I don't want him associated in any way with my team.

Snyder is awful, but galaxies better than Limbaugh would be.

Posted by: REXskins | October 6, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

"You sir are a moron.

Posted by: zjfr2"

Right. I'm the moron.

Aaron Rodgers commences the 4th quarter with 7 points on the board offensively, turns the ball over three different times, is responsible for more points GIVEN to Minnesota than his offense has actually scored, but his effort late in that 4th quarter blowout when he piled up garbage time stats was heroic.

Got it.

Now someone please shoot me in the face for actually reading his post.

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I am pretty sure that the Bronco's picked Chicago's deal because they were offering more picks in the end.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 6, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Here is what happened: JC fumbled and threw three (3) interceptions.

Here is what I think: It is not his fault.

Here is what happened: The Redskins won against the worst team on the league because of two missed field goals by TB.

Here is what I think: Thank God JZ didn't take out JC, he saved the game.

Here is what happened: The Skins seemed to be stuck with a five one-year experienced QB that should have been cut years ago.

Here is what I think: JC is a future Hall-of-fame QB.

Here is what happened:
Here is what I think: I am an idiot for defending JC.

Posted by: hock1 | October 6, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

ZardsFan1,

Nobody is comparing Campbell to Rodgers. Look over the last few threads and see what I've written about the two of them.

The point behind the argument was to hold the two of them to the same standards of criticism. Campbell gets crushed by his fans for stinking up the joint for 2 or 3 quarters, then 'pads' his stats in the 4th when the team is already behind. Rodgers does the exact same thing last night and is called heroic.

It's about accountability. Regardless, this is the last time I'll address it.

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Now someone please shoot me in the face for actually reading his post.

Posted by: psps23

"But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question...

zj & psps, damn fellas!

Agree to disagree already... lol

Posted by: RedDMV | October 6, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

beepins

Posted by: RedDMV | October 6, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

psps23 - What type of performance from JC will it take to get you off his junk? Seriously, your support for JC is admirable...but you need to let it go.

Posted by: oh_boy1 | October 6, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Midnit...
Agreed, unfortunately. It was so disheartening to see that essentially the first thing that Gibbs did was TRADE a 3rd (I think) for Brunell who was about to get cut because of a bonus due... And then paid him $40mil... SOOO many draft picks given away, for essentially nothing.

Posted by: carocanesfan | October 6, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

HWH HWIT the Christian Bale version.


Here's what happened: Zorn stuck with?!?! ah da du da du da da! Quarterback Jason Campbell!

Here's what I think: If you think Collins would do a better job starting at QB, OHHHHHHH GOOD FOR YOU! Your an F*** F***stick. Get over it, JC is not the best QB in the NFL but he sure as F*** is the best QB on this roster. Collins is useless now!

Here's what happened: Kelly had no receptions in the victory over Tampa Bay. Thomas has 1 all year

Here's what I think: Oh surprise surprise, the young WR's are coming up looking like G** D*** losers again, well what the F*** did you expect? These idiots are useless now.


Here's what happened: Washington's ability to win is about as strong as Hugh F*** Hefner C*** with out the blue pill.


Here's what I think: Ooo, you want me to punch you you want me to F*** punch you in the face. Because I will, now lets do it again. LETS DO IT AGAIN! NO... F**** NO!

Posted by: alex35332 | October 6, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Someone please slap those 2nd yr receivers!!! What about the WR coach? Shouldn't he be getting some heat for not developing these guys? All over the league 1st and 2nd yr WRs are doing grand things.

Posted by: KBDC | October 6, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

This is so true. How come the Skins haven't held the WR's coach accountable? Isn't his job to train, teach and prepare the Wideouts? .... stealing money....

Posted by: priceisright | October 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

You keep harping on JC's performance against the Bucs, but I hope even you can admit that was an aberration for him -- he usually doesn't throw that many picks. Much of the criticism of him in the past has been his conservative nature and fear of making the big mistake. If you want to compare Rodgers game last night to something, wouldn't a more fair comparison be JC's stats against the Giants?

Posted by: mattylight | October 6, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Matty, this at least is in the realm of a logical point and realistic. I fully agree that Sunday was an aberration for JC. You are correct he usually doesn't throw that many picks. Would you also be willing to agree though that it isn't really an aberration for he and the offense to struggle even against very bad teams/defenses? I'm just going off of memory here so I may be wrong on this point but the 2007 Detroit home game is the last time I can remember a game where we won by more than two scores and legitimately just beat somebody. Other than that, it doesn't matter who we've played good or bad we find a way to be mediocre keep things close and either squeak out wins or loses. We found a way to play down to our competition again even though it was at home and it was some of the weakest competition we've ever played, but hey, St. Lousi, Cincy, the 49ers last year, so I can't say I'm that shocked. The disturbing thing to me though is we were not competitive with the Giants. And we weren't really competitive with the Lions. That is worse than recent years where no matter what we were competitive. So to me, a 4th year starter, 5th year in the league guy with 40 starts under his belt and is in second year in the system is regressing, not progressing.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm not buying the Malcom Kelly BS. Zorn said today that Campbell is going through his progressions faster than the receivers are running their routes. Go back and look at those two interceptions. MALCOM KELLY DOES NOT GET ANY SEPARATION FROM THE DBs...... PERIOD......EVER.......NEVER!!!!

Marko Mitchell should be on the active roster. Devin Thomas should not be active. Give Marko a chance to get up and get it. He actually knows how to do it and proved it during preseason. This is not like a quarterback replacement or replacing the starting running back - you know those two give you something. Thomas gives you nothing. Marko gives you a chance.

Posted by: BenThere | October 6, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Is Brandon Lloyd available?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 6, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

midniterc: I love it how Vinnie takes no responsibility for the Gibbs drafting disasters. It's not like Vinnie was Gibbs's head personnel guy or anything. Nope, Vinnie had no responsibility for any personnel issues, it was someone else's fault - Gibbs. Just like it was with Norv Turner, Spurrier, and soon, Zorn.

As Mike Wise wrote 4 years ago: Death. Taxes. Vinnie.

Posted by: Dellis2 | October 6, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I love how people can add up margins of victory from multiple wins or losses and act like it means something???

last I checked, wins and losses is how they determine who goes to the playoffs. Then,I think it's division record, then conference record

If we make far enough that we don't go to the playoffs because of points scored, I think we should be happy with that, at this point

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 6, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

here's what happened: we're 2-2 and many fans and me, me, me, media complain as much over the wins as they do over the losses.

here's what I think: this only hurts our chances at success

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 6, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty obvious watching the last 4 games that the Skins have no right side of an offensive line and that has a huge impact on the entire offense, both running the ball and protecting the passer. Vinny knew this coming into the draft and did nothing to address it with our No. 1 pick or through free agency. Until the line play improves, our offense will continue to be stagnant and people will blame JC and Zorn.

On defense, Haynesworth isn't good enough to make up for two aging and washed up DL teammmates (Griffin and Daniels) or the fact that our secondary is mediocre. Except for Doughty, none of our corners or safeties tackles well. Landry simply is out of position at free safety, Rogers has hands of stone, and Hall is not big or strong enough to be a No. 1 corner. The Skins have miscast Orakpo in his role as a SLB instead of just starting him at his natural position of DE.

Vinny's best offseason move was signing Hunter Smith as our punter and noew he's hurt....do I need to say more?

Posted by: wizfan89 | October 6, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

We'll win this week. Carolina are terrible and Campbell is auditioning for their starting QB spot next year.

Posted by: stevebeagrie | October 6, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

This should be another close, down to the wire crap fest

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 6, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Just a heads up it looks like the Governor's race in VA is producing FREE SKINS TICKETS. My kid told me about it and all you have to do is text in the word 'TIX' to 46262 and you are entered to win. Just a heads up for fans who cant stand giving their paycheck to Snyder.

Posted by: PoliticsRLocal | October 6, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Here is what happened: The Skins are 2-2

Here is what I think: Skins might lose at Carolina. Don't forget the Carolina team is coming of a 12-4 year. Injuries and QB play have really, REALLY hurt Carolina.

The Carolina Panthers are better coached, prob have an equal to better D, still don't know about the O.

Don't be surprised IF the Skins lose.

All is not lost! Still 12 games to go!

I predicted a 4-3 or 5-2 record going into the bye week, which isnt all that bad.

Campbell CAN still step up...so can the O Line, which are the MAJOR factors to the Offensive woes.

REPEAT..the Skins are an average team...The skins are an average team.

STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!! FIRE JOE BUGEL!! FIRE THE WR/TE COACH!! but do it..NEXT YEAR!!

we need to get rid of anyone associated with the Skins of the late 80's early 90's. new ballgame..new trends...new teams.

My only...and ONLY recommendation, and exception, would be Russ Grimm...BUT..im not giving up yet.

Ya'll a bunch of Snyders...fire and rebuild.

Didn't that get the Skins to the present state in the first place??????????????

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | October 6, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Carolina was up 7 pts over Dallas at the half on monday night and they made some plays.

Tampa led Washington by 10 at the half . . . the Skins squeaked by the Rams 9 - 7 (who the 49s slammed 35 -0), 3rd lowest points per game average in the NFL since this time last year, worst in the league (or close to it) in 3rd down defense, a goofy position coach serves as the OC and the HC, how could anyone consider this upcoming game a "win"?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 6, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Screw the math. A win is a win, period. If two bad teams play - and two real bad teams played at FEDEX last Sunday - and your team wins, take it. If they won 12 games but only scored 10 points per game doing it, we'd all be trying to get playoff tickets. So stop with the win by XX amount of points already, and be glad the home team CAN STILL WIN!

Posted by: BenThere | October 6, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Here is what I think:

Any idiot can see Jason Campbell and Jim Zorn as going to be the future of the Redskins. I'm not an idiot and its time for change.

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | October 6, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

HERE IS WHAT I KNOW: Inconsistency and instability within an organization = losing teams.

Sure...go ahead and fire someone for being average. If Zorn was 4-16, I'd be ALL FOR IT.

10-10 doesn't equate to being fired.

I mean..cmon...would any other consistent, stable organization fire a guy for going .500???????????

IM NOT..REPEAT..NOT A ZORN OR CAMPBELL FAN...however....firings lead to instability, which leads to the demise or the continuation of a demise.

Most of yous act like the Skins are a great franchise, which they are not.

There is a reason NO national media outlet pays attention to them..

If Zorn gets them to 8-8, 9-7, or (dreaming) 10-6...keep him.

If he does not....well, i'll leave that to the owner. (whom I don't like)

I just DO NOT WANT ANYMORE INCONSISTENCY WITHIN THE ORGANZIATION AS A WHOLE!!!!! No more new offenses...no more new defenses.

Let's try having the same O and D for like...hmm...4 or 5 years before we ALL go overboard...THEN and ONLY THEN..make a change.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | October 6, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

CONTINUED!!

I mean...cmon...EVEN the Cincinnatti Bengals have kept Marvin Lewis for the LONGEST time.

They might not be anywhere near the best team but if Carson Palmer doesnt get injured....they are pretty good.

Look what they are doing this year? I'm not sold yet...but...they do NOT look like a terrible team.

I'm just saying....it takes MORE then TWO or THREE years to evaluate a coaching staff or GM. Not a fan of Vinny...but lately...he is NOT all that bad.

Zorn needs to utilize his young guys..kinda like Blache utilizing Jarmon, K. Moore, and Tryon....thats coaching folks

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | October 6, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Reid is just another "Beware of WHAT you Wish For " Morons in this town.......First it was F*** Cutler...then it was F*** Sanchez.....Now you're STUCK with Dinosaur Joe Gibbs II's..... "3 and Out" Campbell....

and as one of the HAVE NOT teams in the NFL ..... the DEADSskins will not get to 8-8...and as i see it....have an excellent chance to LOSE every post bye week game on their schedule...yes, even at Oakland.

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | October 6, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2

So here is the new standard of fans for the skins, if they lose they are terrible, if they win they are terrible because they did not win as impressively as some other team did against the same opponent. Now if the skins manage to win 9 or 10 games, make the playoffs but only score two to three touchdowns per game are they better than a team that won 8 games against the same opponent and scored more? I will take 10 wins ugly wins and six ugly losses over 8 spectacular wins and eight spectacular losses. Ask the Cowboys, are they any happier being 2-2 than the redskins just because they scored more points? Wow, if people only held themselves to that same standard. Our country would not have half of the problems it currently has.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 6, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

wizfan89

No please do not say more, for your sake.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 6, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

and as one of the HAVE NOT teams in the NFL ..... the DEADSskins will not get to 8-8...and as i see it....have an excellent chance to LOSE every post bye week game on their schedule...yes, even at Oakland.

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 |

Ahh, the internet, where brainless losers can feel superior and intelligent just because they can formulate a thought. Thanks FletcherChristian for giving us an example of what I am talking about.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 6, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

RE: Kelly "If the ball is thrown in his vicinity, even in a crowd, the former Oklahoma Sooner standout will be in the mix for the reception."

I don't know which game you were watching Sunday Einstien, but if your statement above held any truth, he wouldn't have allowed two interceptions on throws to him. Plus, he put NO effort into running Talib down after the balls were intercepted. Marko Mitchell puts in far better effort than that!

Posted by: Redskinrex | October 6, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Jason, can you please come up with something a bit more in depth and current to write about Thomas and Davis? We've all read the "Thomas disappeared mentally for a stretch during preseason/Davis giggled in team meetings" thing every time you mention them. How about you do some digging and find some fresh material to write that explains their lack of production?

Posted by: OldManGibbs | October 6, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ged0386

Ahh, the internet, where brainless losers can feel superior and intelligent just because they can formulate a thought. Thanks FletcherChristian for giving us an example of what I am talking about.
===================================

You'll drown in your deluded koolade PI** before this season is over....

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | October 6, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Zorn and Campbell...a match made in Hades.

Zorn expects Campbell to be a West Coast drop back quarterback like Hassleback behind a O-line that probably wouldn't start as a group in the college Sun Belt Conference. Let Campbell move, as Zorn was noted for doing as a QB, and have time to find a too-seldom-open receiver. At least that would give Campbell a chance to overcome some of Zorn's bad play calling.

However, unfortunately, better QB play will probably have little impact on this lethargic team.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | October 6, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think: Both Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas are a joke. Thanks Vinnie, great job.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 6, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

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