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What I Think: The Zorn Installment

It's getting a little hot these days at Redskins Park. Coach Jim Zorn is under fire from fans for his play-calling and the team's lack of production on offense, which got me thinking that this is a perfect time for a Zorn-heavy installment of Here's What I Think. Let's go.

Here's what happened: In the fourth quarter, Zorn attempted to signal for a timeout before a fourth-down play, prompting special teams coordinator Danny Smith to physically try to stop Zorn.

Zorn should have waited until just before the play clock reached zero in order to expend as much time as possible, which is why Smith appeared to be going crazy next to him. Zorn said his view of the 25-second play clock was obscured because of a pile of players.

Here's what I think: Regardless of the circumstances, the whole scene looked bad for Zorn.

There's a growing feeling among Redskins fans that Zorn is in over his head. For Zorn to need such a big assist from one of his assistants at a crucial moment in the game was, well, just not good for a second-year head coach whose team is 3-7 in its last 10 games and has produced one touchdown on offense in eight quarters this season.

Clock management, obviously, is very important. Zorn gave his growing number of critics more ammunition with that one.

Here's what happened: Zorn has had two chilly exchanges in as many weeks with legendary Redskins quarterback and radio analyst Sonny Jurgensen during postgame interviews in the locker room.

After the opening loss to the New York Giants, Zorn gave terse answers to Jurgensen's questions about the Redskins scoring only one touchdown on offense. And after the Week 2 victory, Jurgensen criticized Zorn for that third-and-5 play midway through the third quarter in which he called for a halfback-option pass from Clinton Portis to Chris Cooley.

The pass fell incomplete and the Redskins settled for their third field goal. Jurgensen made it clear that he didn't like the call, telling Zorn, "Third down, I'm the quarterback, and you call the halfback throwing the ball for me, I'm calling timeout or calling an audible. I'm not letting the halfback throw it. That's what you pay me for." To which Zorn replied: "Well then, I would have to take you out of the game." There was some more back and forth, but I think that paints the picture.

Here's what I think: Oh, boy. The perception of Zorn struggling with clock management is bad for Zorn, but not nearly as bad as mixing it up verbally with Jurgensen. I mean, shoot, this is such a big mistake for him on so many levels, where do I even start?

Jurgensen is a Hall of Fame quarterback who is known to share good cigars and refreshments with the guy who signs Zorn's paycheck, owner Daniel Snyder. A five-time Pro Bowl selection, Jurgensen was considered one of the best passers in his era. I know Zorn was a successful quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks, but the other guy in the conversation is Sonny Jurgensen.

Getting into it with Jurgensen just doesn't make sense for Zorn even if Jurgensen was wrong, which he wasn't, in analyzing the lack of offensive production and the halfback pass. On first and goal at the St. Louis 7-yard line, Zorn called consecutive running plays for Portis. On third down, Campbell pitched to Portis on the right side and the defense was not fooled in the least. And with no wideout on that side, Cooley was well covered from the moment he came off the line. Whether it's fair or not, the play call fueled further speculation that Zorn does not trust Campbell in key situations. That's the point Jurgensen was making.

Here's what happened: On fourth and less than one at the 2-yard line late in the fourth quarter, Zorn called a run to the left side. Portis lost two yards, stirring boos in the crowd, and the Rams took over at the 4-yard line trailing, 9-7, with 1 minute 55 seconds remaining in the game.

After four passes fell incomplete, the Redskins regained the ball and ran out the clock for their first victory. Again, though, Zorn's play and Campbell's decision to stick with the call despite the Rams having overloaded that side on defense, appeared to be another example of Zorn's lack of trust in Campbell in the red zone.

Here's what I think: I spoke with several people in the organization about this, because I was perplexed about the decision to stick with that play when I noticed what the Rams were doing defensively.

On that play, Zorn instructed Campbell to run the play he called, several sources said. Despite what some people believe, Campbell does have the authority to change plays, even in the red zone, and he does at times. The deep pass down the right sideline to Malcolm Kelly to open the game stemmed from a call Campbell adjusted at the line of scrimmage.

But there are times Zorn wants to run the play he calls -- and that was one such occasion. Now, here's the rest of the story: the blocking assignments were messed up on the play. Center Casey Rabach made the correct call based on what the Redskins practiced that week, sources said, but someone else made an incorrect call after Rabach. The result was that the play was stretched, which was not Zorn's intention.

Here's what happened: Again, Zorn seemed to be reluctant to open up the playbook against the Rams. He often has appeared tentative in calling games since the second-half collapse of last season.

Here's what I think: I would be tentative in his situation as well. Look, Zorn knows what's going on. I expect Snyder to fire Zorn if he doesn't at least lead the Redskins to the playoffs (winning a postseason game wouldn't hurt, either), and that's not a good working environment for anyone.

Several people have told me Snyder was prepared to fire Zorn if the Redskins had lost to the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 16 at FedEx last season. They won.

Despite getting a win in Week 2, things are not great for Zorn around here as the team prepares to face the Detroit Lions (0-2), who have lost 19 straight. I'm confident Zorn would have been more aggressive if the Redskins had taken a 14-0 lead against the Rams, but wide receiver Devin Thomas and fullback Mike Sellers dropped passes in the end zone in the first half.

When the Redskins started 6-2 under Zorn in 2008, many players told me how much they liked his aggressive play-calling. He took deep shots, went for it on fourth down and put the ball in Campbell's hands to seal victories.

That seems like years ago. Zorn needs to start taking chances like he did early in his first season. Things are really lining up against him, so why not come out swinging and see what happens?

Here's what happened: Portis rushed for 79 yards and had a 4.2-yard average despite continuing to miss a lot of practice during the week to rest.

Here's what I think: How good could Portis's stats be, and how much more could he help the team, if he practiced more often? I don't care what anyone says, Portis's lack of practice has to have some negative effect on his performance in the running game.

I wish I could watch film with the coaches, because I'm sure there are holes each week that Portis misses because he's not getting the reps any back would need in order to be as sharp as possible for games.

This is another fight that Zorn can't win. I think he's pretty much backed off because of Portis's relationship with Snyder and the ridiculous amount of money he is guaranteed. And I don't want to hear about Portis being sore. It's the NFL. All these guys are sore. The Redskins need everyone to come together now and do more in an attempt to jump-start the offense. Portis included.

By Jason Reid  |  September 22, 2009; 2:55 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Alridge Takes R. Thomas's Roster Spot

Comments

Here's what happened:

Snyder hired a coach with no coordinator experience.

Snyder let Zorn choose an O coordinator with no Coordinator experience.

As a result:

The skins have no one on the offensive side of the ball with the experience to run an offense.

Here is what Snyder is:

A Chooch

Posted by: Gweez | September 22, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

First.

Posted by: hchoi1 | September 22, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

On the Portis pass play, I have to say this among the worst calls I have ever seen.

The play itself is designed to trick a defense into thinking its a run. The DBs bite and the result is a WR or TE that is wide open.

For the most part, you NEED the TE or WR to be WIDE OPEN, for 2 reasons. First, few guys that throw the option pass are good at throwing the football (ARE is an exception). Second, even QBs are significantly less accurate while throwing on the run.

So you have a poor passer throwing in a manner that results in limited accuracy. This is why you need the receiver to be wide open.

Well, wide open rarely happens at the goal line. Throwing at the goal line usually a 'thread it in there' type of pass, since the DBs don't need to worry abut getting beat deep.

On some occasions, a misdirection results in a wide open receiver. Sometimes a guy fakes on blocking down and then catches a pass. These scenarios are more typical when the ball is at the 1 yard line and defenses need to overplay the run. That wasn't the case here. If anything, the defense would have overplayed the pass on 3rd and goal from the 5 -- a clear passing down.

Running the option to the right meant that the defense flowed its players to the same side -- no misdirection at all.

So an inaccurate passer is throwing on the run. There is no misdirection. The defense is expecting a pass. And the passer would the need to thread the ball into a tight spot.

The result was no surprise.

It was a really terrible call.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

tard.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Gweez, bingo. I would ask Danny Snyder one question: Would you, Mr. Snyder, hire a person with the relative experience of Jim Zorn to run one of your businesses?

It would be like hiring a roller-coaster operator to run Six Flags. Oh, wait, maybe he is consistent in his hiring approach.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | September 22, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Da Mayor truthifying up in here.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | September 22, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Am I first?

Posted by: preacherman120022002 | September 22, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:

Snyder was forced to hire an ill-prepared under-qualified coach in Zorn because the guy he really wanted (Spags, who I'm not sure is any better) didn't want the job and Cowher wouldn't answer his phone calls since he wasn't ready to unretire yet.

Here's what I think:

We lose to Detroit this weekend, sorry I just think its going to happen. I think Zorn has lost the locker room already and now he's fighting with Sonny, the owner's boy, after already fighting with the owner's other boy CP. No Bean, there is no hard evidence of this, and I don't have a link, it is pure conjecture on my part but from reading the tea leaves that's what it looks like to me. I think by the bye week Sherman Smith, Stump Mitchell, and Jim Zorn are fired and one of two things happens. Either Greg Blache takes over on an interim basis or Snyder just goes ahead and pulls the trigger on the Shanahan hire who I think he desperately covets and wants to keep away from Jerry Jones. By hiring him during the season he keeps himself out of a potential bidding war with other teams and since he's gonna probably have to give Shanahan total control he'll be letting him have half a season to evaluate the roster before an offseason that is going to have a ton of turnover anyway. The roster will have a lot of questions at DE, CB, T, G, RB, QB, and depth issues and letting the new guy basically put everyone on notice that they're auditioning to keep their jobs heading into the uncapped year where anyone can be dumped wouldn't be an unwise thing. In fact, I kind of hope it does go that way.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I'm rolling with Clinton Portis. Listening to him on the radio now.

15-1. Book it.

Go back to the drawing board and reduce on the field mistakes....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

None of this crap is going to change as long as the embarrassment that is FedEx field is filled and the merchandise keeps selling.

Posted by: Moose33
_______________________

Why is it that people never cease trying to link Snyder's focus on making money to not wanting/trying to make the team improve? This always makes me laugh out loud. He may not be any good at improving the team, but if he did, that would only serve to greatly increase the Skins sales/profitability from all revenue streams. So improving the team (i.e. the product) is actually on his top priority list (though I imagine every year he crosses through it right after initial free agency and the draft, then puts it back on the to-do list after the season starts). Being effective at it is of course a different story. Dan's more of a marketer than a product guy...

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I called the firing way back before x-season, 10 wins or adios, and CAMPBELL will be right behind him, no more than one season later. And I think both will happen, and in that order.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 22, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"Several people have told me Snyder was prepared to fire Zorn if the Redskins had lost to the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 16 at FedEx last season. They won"

ugh....lather rinse repeat...lather rinse repeat....how is anything going to change, how is ANY coach worth his salt going to want to come coach this team, with this type of knee jerk reactions waiting in the wings.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

From that same Don Banks article:

" I'm going out on a short limb here and predicting this is the week the Lions finally win. I say the 19-game losing streak ends Sunday, when Detroit is home against Washington. Obviously the Redskins are offensively challenged and defensively strong. But I just get the feeling the Lions are about to get a breakout type game on offense from the likes of quarterback Matthew Stafford, receiver Calvin Johnson, tight end Brandon Pettigrew and running back Kevin Smith.

A win and the Lions will avoid claiming sole possession of the league's second longest losing streak in history, at 20 games. Get the champagne on ice, Detroit."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/09/22/week2/index.html?eref=T1

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 22, 2009 2:54 PM |

That means we win because Don Banks is the single biggest idiot Sports Illustrated has ever hired.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

I think your prediction is correct and a best possible outcome IF we lose to the Lions and continue losing. If on the other hand we have a winning record at the bye week, there's no way Snyder pulls the trigger on a mid season coaching overhaul. No. Way. Nor should anyone want that to happen if we have a winning record at that point.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Here is what Snyder is:

A Chooch

Posted by: Gweez
____________________

Does that clarify what he is for anyone? WTF is a chooch, a toy train?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Clinton says we're one play away.

...from what, I have NO idea.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

zj, who becomes the offensive coordinator in that scenario......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

The periculum prediction still stands: Zorn fired by week 3 or week 4. I again strongly suspect that Blache will be asked to take over ... reluctantly on his part I am sure. However, it is my opinion that they may achieve better success? My take is that Blache has more credibility and is better liked by the players?

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Dan's more of a marketer than a product guy...

Posted by: chasgiffen

Very well said.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

zj, who becomes the offensive coordinator in that scenario......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:26 PM

We bring back Gibbs or Coryell

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's What Happened: J Reid writes YET ANOTHER critical post on the Skins.

Here's What I Think: J Reid will continue to write even more critical posts on the Skins.

Hey, I realize the team did not look good and I realize the Sky Is Falling but can we have one positive post? Maybe a post about the great Shaun Suisham?

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 22, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"Clinton says we're one play away.

...from what, I have NO idea.

Posted by: DikShuttle

----

When you have 1st and 10 inside the 10 yard line FIVE separate times, you're always one play away from lighting up the scoreboard.

Posted by: psps23 | September 22, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I think the O line has exceeded expectations thus far. With Thomas out, it's wait and see, however. Hopefully Chad rises to the occasion. There's a lot to be said for reps in a game situation.

The play calling must be optimized to suit available personnel. It's maddening not to see Marko in there, esp in the Red zone. The kids got something.

Posted by: bostskin | September 22, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

well, some teams, mebbe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

synder is good at making money...just very bad at being a GM\President of Operations.....

1) hire a real GM and go spend millions on a scouting dept;

1A) hire a real Head coaching prospect...Zorn ain't it.....ok never liked shanahan but ok....or Grimm, or my fav: Jon Gruden! he's a student of the game....smart dude and doesn't take ANY GUFF from players...we'd see some wild-assed hybrid of WC\spread\wildcat\other

2) stop trading away picks for players (Lloyd, a 2 & a 4; Jason taylor--in true panic form, a 2..the list goes on and on);

3) trade 1's for lower 1's and 2\3's.....

4) expunge players who have any hint of an attitude prob......or keep getting hurt or whine

5) build from inside out---may take a while, but one day we look up and we're not afraid to play anyone anymore..w a stout O AND D line


Posted by: tabtool | September 22, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

The play calling must be optimized to suit available personnel. It's maddening not to see Marko in there, esp in the Red zone. The kids got something.

Posted by: bostskin
_____________________

Unfortunately, it's not the ball.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Portis is a preening Diva.

Posted by: ridgely1 | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I think the O line has exceeded expectations thus far. With Thomas out, it's wait and see, however. Hopefully Chad rises to the occasion. There's a lot to be said for reps in a game situation.

Samuels has. As has Rabach. That's it. Samuels, given his injuries last year and previously, is amazing. Just not sure how long that will last. Rabach seems to be getting the bejeebers beat out of him. He isn't the biggest / strongest guy in there. But he is getting the plays right ... especially well on the shotgun.

Jason, a part of why Zorn may not "trust" certain plays may have as much to do with the OL as with Campbell? Perhaps? I suspect its both.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on the 4th and 1 play run wide:

"What happened on the line of scrimmage, our offensive line decided to block it out a little more instead of more downhill and it strung the play out. It was a very frustrating play to watch because had we blocked it differently – and it’s their choice – it might have been a different outcome. If I was to look back on that call, I would call the same play."

Gotta admit I didn't know it was the lines "choice" on how they block a play. Hmm, waddya know?

Posted by: stevek20147 | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Some of what you listed is not play-calling.

I don't think the halfback option was necessarily a bad call. Portis is 3-6 on that with 3 TD. Although it's usually run from the 15, and might have worked better on first down instead of 3rd. Yeah, it's easy to be critical afterwards.

The 4th down stretch play? That was the real bad play call. The real issue with that call is it was the 4th PLAY IN A ROW RUNNING LEFT. Jezus. Bootleg right and JC walks into the end zone.

They tried a lead draw that looked like it hadn't been practiced earlier. That was a mess.

JZ should think about play action rollouts in these situations. I think he just gets a little wrapped up, and running it left 3 times in a row shows he's under too much stress. Ought to have an "inside the 10" script of 3 plays, and practice the hell out of them. Including calling them.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

What I Think: The Zorn Installment (from the Redskins spin-room perspective)
Here's what happened: In the fourth quarter, Zorn attempted to signal for a timeout before a fourth-down play, prompting special teams coordinator Danny Smith to physically try to stop Zorn.
Here's what I think: This is great news for skins fans, the great coach Joe Gibbs had problems with his timing on time outs and knowing some of these basic rules of football. That is because great coaches are not busy thinking about little tick tack rules but thinking big and creative about the game the season all at once. Also Danny Smith gained a lot of respect for his reaction from fans, and people can buy some of that sweet coaching gear he was wearing on Redskins.com
Here's what happened: Zorn has had two chilly exchanges in as many weeks with legendary Redskins quarterback and radio analyst Sonny Jurgensen during postgame interviews in the locker room.
Here's what I think: Oh, boy, this is great. There is no better way for Zorn to master what he is doing then a frank and open debate with a HOF QB. Sonny is probably the smartest football mind in 40 miles of ashburn, so this is all good for Zorn. Also this helps keep Sonny's name out there and people buying classic Sonny Jerseys!
Here's what happened: On fourth and less than one at the 2-yard line late in the fourth quarter, Zorn called a run to the left side.
Here's what I think: Look, that play was great BECAUSE we knew that was what we should run. That is our team establishing an identity. Identity is good, and its good for fans to know what we are about on this team.
Here's what happened: Again, Zorn seemed to be reluctant to open up the playbook against the Rams. He often has appeared tentative in calling games since the second-half collapse of last season.
Here's what I think: Zorn is keeping his best plays super secret for tougher opponents. Simple as that. Do you want to see them running cool deep pass winner plays against the rams or wait till the cowboys? BTW we will have a Dallas Vs Washington Tee available on the website for fans!

Here's what happened: Portis rushed for 79 yards and had a 4.2-yard average despite continuing to miss a lot of practice during the week to rest.
Here's what I think: Portis will go over 10,000 yars at this rate so: http://shop.redskins.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductDetailIndexName=CategoryDetail_504&CategoryID=504&Page=1,6&ProductID=40104

Posted by: alex35332 | September 22, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that people never cease trying to link Snyder's focus on making money to not wanting/trying to make the team improve? This always makes me laugh out loud.

Posted by: chasgiffen

There is really nothing funny about it. The problem is there is no consequences for whatever that retard does. It's great that he wants to improve the team but year after year we go through the same situation and end up a mediocre team. Profibility doesn't change. People are still on the waitlist and people still go out and buy the jersey of the next overpaid underachieving free agent signing.

How much more do you think he can milk out of the general public while putting an inferior product on the field? He seems to think there is really no limit. As long as he's making money, why would he change the puppets like Vinny around him?

Posted by: Moose33 | September 22, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think: How good could Portis's stats be, and how much more could he help the team, if he practiced more often? I don't care what anyone says, Portis's lack of practice has to have some negative effect on his performance in the running game.

I wish I could watch film with the coaches, because I'm sure there are holes each week that Portis misses because he's not getting the reps any back would need in order to be as sharp as possible for games.

This is another fight that Zorn can't win. I think he's pretty much backed off because of Portis's relationship with Snyder and the ridiculous amount of money he is guaranteed. And I don't want to hear about Portis being sore. It's the NFL. All these guys are sore. The Redskins need everyone to come together now and do more in an attempt to jump-start the offense. Portis included.

==============================================

What I think:

JReid is wrong on a few different fronts. Portis has been practicing. He's been practicing everyday. If he wasn't, the beat reporters would report that. So, a hearty 'YOU LIE!' on that one......

2nd, Portis only had like 19 carries. He was getting 25-30 carries this time last year.

3rd, 4.2 ain't that bad. Did he even watch the game? He was getting it in.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Been said many times and must be said again, why would an elite coach who wants/demands GM authority come to the Skins or Dallas when they know the owner will rule the roost?? There is a very good reason the Skins and Dallas, respectively, have untested and inept coaches. The only way we are going to see Shanahan, Cowher or Holmgren is if Danny says "Ok, I agree to back off." Do any of you see that happening?

Posted by: boozyb | September 22, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is seen as the ONLY red zone threat therefor he is usually double covered by a linebacker AND a safety in the endzone. Your comment is stupid because in the same sentence you say covered by a linebacker so no chance of beating us deep. You don't go deep in the redzone. Nice try on the backtrack though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse


It's not a backtrack and the beating us deep was a typo. My original point was that the two tight end set just doesn't work in the red zone for us but go ahead and keep assuming I'm bashing Cooley. I'm not. I like him and it's not his fault. It's a bad red zone package for us. That's all I'm saying. All it does is clog up the middle. There is no deep threat so the safeties can play right up on the line and the linebackers don't have to give any cushion to Cooley. I'm agreeing that he's double covered down there. I'm just saying the reason he's double covered and we can't run is because of the package. It sucks. Stop using it in the red zone. A tall receiver in the corner would most likely draw a safety and a CB and actually give us a chance to make a play in the back of the end zone. With this risk the defense will have to move away from the center of the field and back off the line of scrimmage. This would give Cooley room to get open underneath and maybe open up a running lane. Moss isn't tall enough to make a play back there. If he's in on a red zone package he should be in the slot. We need our tall WRs to spread out the defense. With this package they just sit right on the line between the hashes and shut us down. They know we have to go to the middle of the field. That is our inherent red zone flaw. Send the tall guys to the corners and we'll score some TDs.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 22, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, why get on Portis for 4.2 yards per carry? That's just stupid.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 22, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Guaranteed money and overinvolved owners are a fact of life. Not much you can do about it, as I'm sure Zorn knows.

And I imagine he knows he'll be fired if the team doesn't win (or if he annoys Snyder). Not much you can do about that, either.

Likewise, I expect the fans and the various bloviators to dissect the team's performance ad infinitum, even if it doesn't add a whit to the quality of the discussion.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 22, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Here is my problem with the Skins from a bigger picture. I don't think we are competitive in our Division much less the league as a whole. There is no way this team of players, coaches and staff can win the NFC East. Forget play calling or audibles or whatever. Zorn was able to slip up on teams early last year with his style of offense and play calling, but now he is predicatble. Heck, I know what's coming and I don't get paid to do anything with the NFL, I've just watched a lot of football. It's Joe Gibbs 2.0 conservative, predicatble football.

Posted by: scowan47 | September 22, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"How much more do you think he can milk out of the general public while putting an inferior product on the field"

Versus, how much he'd make hosting home playoff games, making the playoffs year after year, after year, or making the super bowl??

Which do you think would bring in more money?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

...'hence the 'tard' earlier.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm skeptical of a another big name coaching hire, but with the culture of this team and organization that is the only move that would make sense. Zorn has no juice when it comes to management and the star players. Do you think Portis pulls all of his usual BS with a Holmgren, Gruden, or Shanahan as the coach? Do you think Vinny Cerrato would be allowed to spend multiple picks on WR's and DB's while neglecting the lines? THose coaches are stubborn and would get rid of alot of players that didn't fit their scheme but would also be smart enough to know what players they could adjust their Offenses for. The main thing they would do better than Zorn is actually analyze how the Defense is playing and adjust the playcalling to fit. Zorn seems to follow his West Coast offense play script and philosophy to a fault. This man hasn't shown he has a clue how to adapt.

Posted by: moseley_brian | September 22, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

All I know is one guy who won't like it at all if Blache ends up with this gig: Clinton Portis. If he doesn't do the job for Blache he will bench him so fast Portis won't see the tweet coming. And Blache won't have to deal with Snyder on that one.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Great post from Jason.

Here's my mantra this year: Snyder is not the problem. He's the money. So be it. He's not going anywhere.

The problem is Vinny.

Toss Vinny and get a real GM. Heck, do THAT right now, mid-season, and let JZ keep going if the new GM wants him.

Snyder is probably hoping the new guys catch fire and show that Vinny can draft, but I think Vinny has shown he doesn't know how to build a roster, whether or not the Devins and Chads and Malcolms come through or not.

So who do we hire?

Gene Smith, the Jaguars' new GM.

No joke. Get on the phone with Wayne Weaver, the Jags' owner, and see how much it would cost to essentially buy Smith's contract.

Hey, with the Jags it will come down to money, and Danny can provide that.

Then let Gene Smith come here and build us up. To sweeten the pot, let him pick the coach.

Then, Danny's next step--get out of the way and STFU, and let Gene build through the draft.

Posted by: farstriker | September 22, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

blache got lured out of retirement, I'm not all together sure that he's gonna want to keep that seat warm, for half a season or less....he doesn't strike me as the type...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Why wouldn't Portis listen to Blache? 'cause he called out Zoron?

...you see the failing logic, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, why get on Portis for 4.2 yards per carry? That's just stupid.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 22, 2009

Campbell's average is higher so ... pretty ridiculous to give Portis, the highest paid running back in the NFL, credit for a 4.2 avg?

How many TD's has Portis scored? Compare with other backs.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Peri, give it a rest. or not. You're still full of it.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

As long as he's making money, why would he change the puppets like Vinny around him?

Posted by: Moose33
_____________________

There aren't just 2 levels of making money, i.e. making money and not making money. Snyder (and any rational business person) endeavors constantly to increase the amount of money they're making. Improving the team will achieve this.

Obviously he has the wrong guy in charge of this business unit (or he's meddling in those decisions, and he's also the wrong guy to be running a football team). But that's not what I was addressing, I was talking about the upside down logic of people here linking money-making to indifference by Snyder to improving the team. Just doesn't compute. And it is funny.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Versus, how much he'd make hosting home playoff games, making the playoffs year after year, after year, or making the super bowl??

Which do you think would bring in more money?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Let me know when we host a playoff game.

The point is, we're not going to see the playoffs year after year after year until this guy puts someone in charge who actually knows how to build and run an NFL franchise.

Posted by: Moose33 | September 22, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

blache got lured out of retirement, I'm not all together sure that he's gonna want to keep that seat warm, for half a season or less....he doesn't strike me as the type ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009

He spent a lot of time and effort getting this defense ready ... he wouldn't want to see it tossed down the tubes. He probably knows someone either on the coaching staff or outside who he can throw in to be OC. Bugel comes to mind. He's done the HC gig as well. I think it could be done and Snyder probably has seen the OC's replaced by 4 teams just before the end of training camp.

If you look at it as losing an OC not losing an HC?

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I have been quite loud and clear in my bashing of some of Zorn's play calling. Correctly, IMO, and I don't back away from it now.

Having said that, the Redskins are also being hamstrung by a series of individual's mistakes. Heyer misses his man, Sellers drops a TD, JC underthrows by a whisker, Moss fumbles, Zorn makes a crazy play call, a lineman misses a block call, DT fails to make a professional catch in the endzone, Los drops (another) pick, DHall slips and gives up a fade TD (hmmmm, a fade TD, sounds promising), LL30 hits a guy out of bounds(scoreboard, doesn't matter if it was a cheap call), Golston? roughing cancels a turnover (scoreboard, doesn't matter if it was a cheap call), Griffen? gets called for holding an !interior lineman! to keep a drive alive(scoreboard, doesn't matter if it was a cheap call, and criminey that was the cheapest of all)....

Just as the Detroit rags are all predicting a breakout for the apparently high powered Lion offense in waiting, so too are the Redskins THAT close to putting it all together and absolutely smoke checking somebody.

My hope is that there is enough veteran leadership in the locker room to understand that it is time to say "This caca ends now... the time for talk and excuses is over, just make the damn play, every time, every play". Their backs are against the wall, and their coach needs them to step up and play like professionals.

Discipline and intelligence are the keys to Redskins' victory. They have no margin to overcome stupidity and failure to execute their responsibilities.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 22, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on the 4th and 1 play run wide:

"What happened on the line of scrimmage, our offensive line decided to block it out a little more instead of more downhill and it strung the play out. It was a very frustrating play to watch because had we blocked it differently – and it’s their choice – it might have been a different outcome. If I was to look back on that call, I would call the same play."

Gotta admit I didn't know it was the lines "choice" on how they block a play. Hmm, waddya know?

Posted by: stevek20147 | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse


Well, they had to try to block out because the Rams over loaded the left side since it was like the 9th run left we tried that day in the red zone. Portis looked into the A gap but there was a guy coming through there. He tried to bounce out to the B gap but it was too late and there was a guy there. There was a guy on the outside too. The play was doomed from the start. It was a bad call. It was predictable.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 22, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

So who do we hire?

Gene Smith, the Jaguars' new GM.

Posted by: farstriker

-------------------

What is it exactly about the Jags that makes you single him out as a GM to buy?

I don't know much about the Jags scouting and recruiting history, but they seem like a mediocre team to me.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Why wouldn't Portis listen to Blache? 'cause he called out Zoron?

...you see the failing logic, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009

Gee I believe he did it to Gibbs too? And Gibbs traded for him AND Gibbs has superbowl rings in his collection now doesn't he? And what does Portis have other than his way too exorbitant contract?

If Blache steps in Portis gets benched unless he performs well beyond what he has shown. Mark it down.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"Let me know when we host a playoff game"

try answering the question there Fred Astaire, instead of dancing around it.

What would make more money, what I described or what you described, pretty simple....your move...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

As a lifelong skins fan, I understand the frustration and impetus to Fire Zorn. It's just that sort of knee jerk reaction that has this franchise in so deep now, however. He will learn. If not, let him go season end.

Blache, while a respectable guy, and by all appearances one players respond to, is by no one's measure an offensive guy.

Where is Sherman in all this? As OC he really has the onus to produce innovation matched to offensive strength.

Posted by: bostskin | September 22, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Periculum

Please, enough with the Portis bashing.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 22, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

4th, the media is not allowed to watch all of practice, only the first 10 minutes or so.

Posted by: TheCindy | September 22, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

huh? did I miss that? When did he call out Gibbs?!?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Reid,

Here's what happened: Jason Reid spouts off the obvious: Old stuff, stuff everbody knows or everybody could care less about.

Here's what I think: The Washington Post fires Jason Reid.

Posted by: getitritegov | September 22, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

There aren't just 2 levels of making money, i.e. making money and not making money. Snyder (and any rational business person) endeavors constantly to increase the amount of money they're making. Improving the team will achieve this.

Posted by: chasgiffen

I understand the business aspect of it and I'm not trying to simply the financial situation. It's no revelation that Danny is trying to squeeze as much money out of his little $1 billion toy. While he's trying "improve" the team, he's still making money hand over fist and we haven't seen any real change in the philosopy of the team in 10 years to achieve this change. I bet he would rethink his strategy, which obviously is not working, real quick if 20,000 people showed up at FedEx instead of 91K.

Posted by: Moose33 | September 22, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

The point is, we're not going to see the playoffs year after year after year until this guy puts someone in charge who actually knows how to build and run an NFL franchise.

Posted by: Moose33
_____________________

Now that can't be argued with.

I will say I think Vinny's improving (see D-line, WR's, punter), but the team is still "unbalanced", i.e. strong in some areas but unacceptably weak in others (namely O-line and play-calling, which is on Zorn), which of course other NFL coaches will exploit to make the strengths meaningless. Vinny now needs to (quickly) get these 2 weaknesses up to snuff, but that's next year (draft/FA) and probably a new coach. All I can hope for now, i.e. this season, is that the O-line somehow performs reasonably well (saw that against the Ginas but not the Lambs, weirdly) and the lightbulb somehow (how?) goes on for Zorny in his play-calling.

Where's that durn lightswitch?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

alright kiddoz. sorry for feeding peri.

hav a goodun.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 22, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

If Blache steps in Portis gets benched unless he performs well beyond what he has shown. Mark it down.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

So you would also bench Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook right?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 22, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

zj, who becomes the offensive coordinator in that scenario......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Bean I'm not sure, I just don't see anyway that IF we lose to the Lions and this type of scenario unfolds that Snyder keeps Smith and Mitchell (Zorn's boys) after canning corny Zorny. I think if Blache were promoted he'd figure it out, Chan Gailey and Jeff Jaguzinsky (have no idea if I spelled either of those close to right) are available or shoot, maybe like somebody else said he lets buges do it. I agree with whoever posted if we are 3-3 or better this doesn't happen, I just can't see Zorn getting fired unless we are 2-4 or worse come the bye week and the offense still looks dreadful. 3-3 or better and he's safe I think. But IF we are 1-5 or 2-4 it wouldn't shock me to see him fired and Shanny hired I think that's the way Snyder would go, as you said I don't think Blache really wants to be head coach and I do think Snyder really wants Shanahan so why wait if the season has tanked already.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to all those who wrote in to the Post to voice their concerns about the offensive comments posted by Peaceful2008. I don't think we'll be seeing him on here again.

Posted by: Barno1 | September 22, 2009 12:01 PM

Good work Barno. That guy was garbage. So that makes it twice now that we've agreed this season. Is that a good omen or bad?

Posted by: mack1 | September 22, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Mack daddy it's always a good thing to agree with me. But I think the entire Redskins Insider Nation agreed on this one. ..that guy had to go. Freedom of speech only goes so far, when you start wishing terminal cancer on people it's time for you to go.

Posted by: Barno1 | September 22, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Cindy....But the fact is still no one reported Portis hasn't been practicing. Because if he wasn't....that would have been big news and some media members would have mentioned this already because Portis' practice status is TMZ-styled news....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

It's not a backtrack and the beating us deep was a typo. My original point was that the two tight end set just doesn't work in the red zone for us but go ahead and keep assuming I'm bashing Cooley. I'm not. I like him and it's not his fault. It's a bad red zone package for us. That's all I'm saying. All it does is clog up the middle. There is no deep threat so the safeties can play right up on the line and the linebackers don't have to give any cushion to Cooley. I'm agreeing that he's double covered down there. I'm just saying the reason he's double covered and we can't run is because of the package. It sucks. Stop using it in the red zone. A tall receiver in the corner would most likely draw a safety and a CB and actually give us a chance to make a play in the back of the end zone. With this risk the defense will have to move away from the center of the field and back off the line of scrimmage. This would give Cooley room to get open underneath and maybe open up a running lane. Moss isn't tall enough to make a play back there. If he's in on a red zone package he should be in the slot. We need our tall WRs to spread out the defense. With this package they just sit right on the line between the hashes and shut us down. They know we have to go to the middle of the field. That is our inherent red zone flaw. Send the tall guys to the corners and we'll score some TDs.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 22, 2009 3:40 PM

See, this we agree on but this was NOT what you said originally. You were speaking about going deep which you do not do inside the 20 because there is no deep. If that is not what you originally meant then we agree. Cooley cannot be covered one on one by a linebacker was my point.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Okay here is what we fans need to do. Right after a game we need to get Zorn kidnapped, get him drunk and some ***** maybe a few psychedelics. Tha il' fix em.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 22, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

the bucs fired jags 2 weeks before the season started, and thats the type of guy you want to bring in??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Theory Z:

Jim Zorn is relieved of his HC status next year.. But not relieved from this team. Comes back as OC. Danny boy goes after what he wants the most, Shannahan/Cowher(which ever one he feels that Dallas would want more to piss off Jerry Jones because Wade Phillips is gone too) for obvious leadership abilities, experience and track record. Not to mention a ring in Cowher's case, we all know how Snyder likes bright and shiny things.

I'm just having a hard time grasping the fact of Danny giving him the chance, and I'm being generous with the term CHANCE to instill a COMPLETELY new offense and fire him when it finally clicks a little after mid way through this season.. Then again he did fire Shottenheimer.. Thoughts?

Posted by: iHAVEfaith | September 22, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

This is a better post than the previous recycled material - so kudos, JReid.

While I agree with a lot of what Reid writes, I don't have much sympathy with Zorn's position on the hot seat. Reid writes:

"Here's what happened: Again, Zorn seemed to be reluctant to open up the playbook against the Rams. He often has appeared tentative in calling games since the second-half collapse of last season.

Here's what I think: I would be tentative in his situation as well. Look, Zorn knows what's going on. I expect Snyder to fire Zorn if he doesn't at least lead the Redskins to the playoffs (winning a postseason game wouldn't hurt, either), and that's not a good working environment for anyone."

Sorry, every coach has to go through some variation of this except maybe Bill Belichek (sp?). Shannahan was fired after some mediocre seasons, remember? That's the way it goes.

Now, I do agree that Zorn needs to just let everything loose and go for it - open up the playbook and put the game in Campbell's hands to win it. Two runs and a gadget play on a single red zone trip? C'mon'. Let Campbell win or lose it. After all, these two are tied together at this point in terms of pressure and expectations. Let's see if he can do it.

Posted by: hithere1 | September 22, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Lions full of former Redskins
By David Elfin on Sept. 22, 2009
into Redskins 360

Matt Millen is finally gone, but Jon Jansen isn't the only former Redskins employee in Detroit.

Although the longtime right tackle is the only ex-Redskin on the Lions' roster, defensive line coach Bob Karmelowicz, strength coach Jason Arapoff, trainers Dean Kleinschmidt and Al Bellamy, general manager Martin Mayhew, assistant director of pro personnel Miller McCalmon, scouts Cary Conklin and Dave Sears and public relations chief Bill Keenist all spent years in Washington.

Karmelowicz coached here from 1994-96 before being fired when Mike Nolan replaced Ron Lynn as Norv Turner's defensive coordinator.

Arapoff and Bellamy both began working for the Redskins in 1998 and were part of the purge that took place following the 2000 season.

Kleinschmidt assisted Bubba Tyer during the brief Steve Spurrier era (2002-03).

Mayhew played cornerback for the Redskins from 198-92 and got his front office start in Washington in 1999 while finishing law school at Georgetown.

McCalmon scouted for Washington from 1990-2000.

Conklin, a Redskins backup quarterback from 1990-93, scouted for the team in 2003 as did Sears from 1997-2000.

Keenist got his start in the NFL with the Redskins from 1981-83.

Arapoff, Bellamy, Conklin, Keenist, Mayhew and McCalmon all won Super Bowl rings in Washington.

Those glory days seem like ancient history now, don't they?

-- David Elfin

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

It's no revelation that Danny is trying to squeeze as much money out of his little $1 billion toy.
__________________

You say that like it's a bad thing. RI's first communist blogger!

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

So, do we see the ol' Statue of Liberty play against the Motor City Boys?

Posted by: bostskin | September 22, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm not ready to can Zorn yet. Geez, we're talking about clock management and red zone play calling. Can't he just fix these areas of his job? Players go in every week and work on the stuff they screwed up why wouldn't we expect the same from him? He's doing a lot of stuff right. We're moving the ball well between the 20s. All he has to do is learn to finish a drive. Just get him a red zone offense for dummies book and we'll go 12-4.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 22, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Center Casey Rabach made the correct call based on what the Redskins practiced that week, sources said, but someone else made an incorrect call after Rabach.

Who made the incorrect call after Rabach?????

Zorn better realize that conservative & tenative plays and playcalling will only get him fired. Taking risk and letting the talent do what they do best emboldens the players. If you don't show confidence in the players they won't have confidence in your plays, leadership or decisions. That goes for the defense also.

I don't want to see Coach Zorn fired but if he does get fired my first choice would be Chucky...

Posted by: priceisright | September 22, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Or the ol' fumblerooskie?

Posted by: bostskin | September 22, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone considered the possibility that Vinny set up JC17 to fail on purpose this year?

Think about it: He knows he has several positions to address in the next 2-3 years. He knows the o-line is in deep neglect. But what if this year, he addresses everything EXCEPT the o-line.

In theory the o-line suffers similarly to last year, Campbell suffers because of it. Then Vinny has all the excuse he needs to release Campbell, get a new QB, and use the offseason to improve the o-line and set his new QB up for a better start. Maybe he's also thinking -high draft pick, new head coach next year.

Not that he couldn't cut Campbell anyway , but maybe if he improved the OL this year, JC plays better, and the fan support forces him to make a new contract. And maybe he doesn't want that because he just hates Campbell. He obviously didn't want to even give him a chance this year.

Maybe this sounds like a conspiracy theory to some of you. But if you're VC and you don't like Campbell and you have a 2-3 year plan, this scenario doesn't seem to me like it's that unrealistic.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

So you would also bench Brandon Jacobs and Brian Westbrook right?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 22, 2009

He is the highest paid. He may actually make more than both combined. This offense is having problems. Everyone on this damned blog said they would go to the "moneyman", Portis. Where is he?

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I feel you on the Portis stuff in particular Mayor. The shuffle pass to portis was unsuccessfl because he made the wrong read. There was a lane to his left, he made the wrong read. He looked like he hadn't practiced that play.

Posted by: wardt30 | September 22, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

the bucs fired jags 2 weeks before the season started, and thats the type of guy you want to bring in??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

If your making a mid-season change to keep a seat warm you don't have a lot of options. I have no idea why the guy got fired and I doubt you do either, what I do know is he's unemployed and available and that he coached a very good BC team and got a guy extremely ready for the NFL by the name of Matt Ryan. Tampa by all accounts appears to be a grease fire which I guess we'll see up close here soon but I have no reason to suddenly think he can't coach based on a decision Raheem Morris made. Again, I said I have no idea, I'm not advocating it, I just threw out a name, but I understand you have to be cantankerous and pick apart if a far-fetched hypothetical so have at it. IF we go 2-4 and 1-5 AND Snyder decides to fire Zorn I think he would and should just immediately hire Shanahan anyway so the whole conversation is more than likely moot because Zorn probably won't get fired in season and if he does I honestly think he hires Shanahan who is traveling around to teams right now studying them with his Offensive and Defensive Coordinators with him.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Here is what is public with Clinton Portis and practice:

Redskins | Portis practices Monday
Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:00:07 -0700

David Elfin, of The Washington Times, reports Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis (ribs) practiced Monday, Sept. 7, and will start Week 1.
===============================================

Redskins | Portis will not play Thursday
Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:34:39 -0700

CBSSports.com reports Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis (ribs) suffered a rib injury Friday, Aug. 28, that kept him out of practice Sunday, Aug. 30. Portis said, "It's nothing serious. I hurt it on the first play of the game (New England). I'll be all right." Head coach Jim Zorn said Portis would not play in the team's final preseason game Thursday, Sept. 3.

===============================================

http://www.kffl.com/player/607/NFL

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan would be a fool to take a job here. Unless he just wants to visit for 2 years.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

zj, he was fired because he wasn't NFL ready, and was a snake oil salesman....steve spurrier like....no thanks.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"Getting into it with Jurgensen just doesn't make sense for Zorn even if Jurgensen was wrong, which he wasn't, in analyzing the lack of offensive production and the halfback pass."

Jurgensen was TOTALLY wrong about this. His message to Zorn was, if I was your QB, and I didn't like the play you were calling, I'd either change the play, or call a timeout and tell you, my coach, that I'm not going to have any part of this play, and you better change it now. That's straight up insubordination, and Zorn had every right to get upset at Sonny, and to tell him that if he did that, Zorn would pull him from the game.

Sonny said he wouldn't have run it because "it didn't work!". Well, duh, Sonny, when you look at it backwards in time it obviously was the wrong call. But I seem to remember last year when that halfback option to Cooley got us a touchdown right before the half against the Eagles, and it was Cooley's only TD catch of the season.

IMHO, Zorn is taking WAY too much heat this early in the season. He's 1-1, had a few questionable play calls at critical times, but hey, if you can do that and still win the game, I'll take that 100 times out of 100 vs learning how to coach 'em up during a 33-31 loss. At the end of the day in the NFL, wins are the ONLY thing that matters.

And there is no way Detroit is going to beat the Redskins next week. Not a chance. Matt Stafford is the worst QB in the league right now statistically. They have no running game. The Lions defense couldn't even pick off Brett Farve! 31-10, Redskins win big.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 22, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I know it seem like the sky is falling on this franchise right now and it is impossible to see the bright side. But if we implode this season, then we’ll get a fresh start (again). We would be in a great position to get a Franchise QB; I’m hoping Sam Bradford. That kid will be a star QB at the next level. Yes he plays in a spread offense but, he majors in finance which means he is smart and would be able to pick up pro level offense quickly. He is more athletic than he gets credit for; he played basketball, baseball, soccer, and football in high school.

I say all this to say, this may be our Tim Duncan moment.

Wish list for 2010 off-season:

1. Mr. Snyder finally fires Vinny and gets a football person to run the team
2. Sam Bradford
3. New Head Coach (preferably Mike Shanahan)
4. Trade Clinton Portis and draft a running back
5. New offensive line
6. 11 wins and the division title
7. Make it at least all the way to the conference finals
8. RESPECTABILITY around the league
9. Cowboys implode
10. And finally, hope my wife lets me get the Porsche I’ve been dreaming of.

Posted by: Ejayraptor | September 22, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

The sky isn't falling, its into Week 3... Maybe you guys should recall a similar scenario in NY 3 years ago. NY coming into DC for an away game with us in Week 3 when they were 0-2. We had the game and they came back and won it and they went on to roll. We beat them at the Meadowlands with Toddball and I think they won out from there (oh yah the lost last reg season game against NE in their pursuit for a perfect season) but got the better of NE in the Big One...

POINT IS we should all know by now that this is a week by week league. Things can change quickly after 1 week in this league... Everyone thinks we're doomed, Zorn will be gone soon, blah blah blah... Come on!

NYJ are apparently the best team in the league with a Rookie QB. NE is washed up... whatever. it was week 2. STFU.

Thats why they play the games. All skins have to do is cut down on penalties, and mistakes... put it in the end zone and make progress each week. IF they just take care of their business and Zorn really is hard on himself this week (like he said, but then says he stands by his calls...?) we will be fine. That STL win could be a blessing in disguise.. Let's hope that it is and they use it to get better.

HTTR

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan would be a fool to take a job here. Unless he just wants to visit for 2 years.

Posted by: REXskins
_______________________

Oh, and you forgot "and get paid $7M+/year for doing so." Small thing.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

my bad... re: NYG 2 yrs ago.

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Lions full of former Redskins
By David Elfin on Sept. 22, 2009
into Redskins 360

Also, Jim Schwartz interviewed for the Skins head coaching position - so we are playing back to back games against teams whose HC was recently a Skins HC candidate.

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you forgot "and get paid $7M+/year for doing so." Small thing.

Posted by: chasgiffen

Omitted because he could go somewhere else and get paid just as much (or close enough to offset the pain of coaching in DC).

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Who would you take?

Skins --
Jim Zorn HC
Sherman Smith OC
Greg Blache DC
Vinny Cerratto GM

Lions --
Jim Schwartz HC
Scott Linehan OC
Gunther Cunningham DC
Martin Mayhew GM

Posted by: ksquare | September 22, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

OK - I usually don't say anything about anyone's posts here, because, well, just because.

But I'm sorry - Just because Bradford is majoring in Finance DOES NOT mean he is smart enough to be an NFL QB. Majoring in Finance means pretty much that you listen to your professors, regurgiate what they tell you and get a passing grade. In Class. Sitting on Your Butt. Using your Pencil and your Brain Only.

Being an exceptional NFL QB means that you have to have the coordination between your body and what your brain tells you to do when 4 350 LB lineman are running at you. Quick eyes, quick hands, quick feet and quick physical instincts are at a premium.

These are not skills that you learn as a finance major.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Haven't been posting up here because i cannot deal with all the negatively. But seriously, how about some patience with Zorn (yes, I realize it's been a long 10 years with Danny). I want to win as much as you all do, but this we lose one game to the Giants and Zorn needs to be fired is BS. Sorry, but, so we fire Zorn, hire Shananhan and then what, he coaches for the rest of the season, or say he starts next season and goes 7-9, do we fire him and try someone else? Sorry, but I would like some freaking continuity that we haven't seen in this team in years - partially because we lose one game and everyone goes crazy.

Sorry, rant over. Back to work.

Oh and booing is BS. Sorry, but that's really going to motivate the team. I don't think so. I go to games to cheer my team, not to boo them. If you are going to boo, stay home.

Posted by: suzannepdc | September 22, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Some of you guys really give new meaning to the word... Hamsters.

I know we have sucked or been MEDIUM for years and that leads to non-stop ridiculous speculation, mainly due to our medling owner but... I'm just over the doom in gloom... Not in F'ing Week 3. We are 1-1. Let's get a grip.

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

IMHO, Zorn is taking WAY too much heat this early in the season. He's 1-1...

Posted by: dmorgan6617
_________________________

1. The relevant metric is that he's what, 3 and 8 in the last 11 games?

2. We were dominated by the Ginas, should have lost by much more than 6, and 7 of our points were made by the punter. (b) Our offense was pitiful against the Lambs, for many reasons, and we barely won.

3. If the lightbulb(s) doesn't go on for Zorn asap, we may well lose games to powderpuffs over the next few weeks that we shouldn't, and get smoked by the tough teams we face throughout the 2nd half of the season.

No, we shouldn't be happy because we're 1-1 and it's early in the season.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

note to dan snyder:
pls. back off in deciding who your personnel in the field will be. give coach zorn that authority. he's the coach so he should know who he wants to play and who could help the TEAM win. if these diva players can't produce, let him bench them. you should stick to your current coach, FOR A CHANGE. believe in him and encourage him to do better. if he does not believe in jason, then let him get somebody whom he trust can finished the job. jason is NOT A FRANCHISE QB. i'm tired of this qb. for me he is not smart enough to make decisions on how to manage plays. just watching the rookie qb's, like stafford & sanchez, these guys can make plays.

Posted by: capsfan2007 | September 22, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

I recently spoke with Jim Zorn's therapist. He said that it's not so much as Zorn not trusting Campbell as it is Zorn not trusting himself. He realizes the pressure to win and wants come away with at least 3 points as opposed to none. Look at the play calling between the 20's. Good ball movement. A few big plays. In the red zone, play it safe. Come away with points.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Does Danny own the Georgia Six Flags or has he sold all that? If he does, he needs to remodel it to be a water park.

We've had a bit of rain down here lately.

http://www.11alive.com/rss/rss_story.aspx?storyid=135490

Posted by: will_ga | September 22, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

zj, he was fired because he wasn't NFL ready, and was a snake oil salesman....steve spurrier like....no thanks.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse


and you know this how? where's the link? Does Raheem Morris appear NFL ready?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Just because Bradford is majoring in Finance DOES NOT mean he is smart enough to be an NFL QB. Majoring in Finance means pretty much that you listen to your professors, regurgiate what they tell you and get a passing grade. In Class. Sitting on Your Butt. Using your Pencil and your Brain Only.

Being an exceptional NFL QB means that you have to have the coordination between your body and what your brain tells you to do when 4 350 LB lineman are running at you. Quick eyes, quick hands, quick feet and quick physical instincts are at a premium.

These are not skills that you learn as a finance major.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 4:36 PM


But JohnD, I have it on good authority that Bradford does his finance studies while simultaneously playing Dance Dance Revolution and racking up high scores on Whack-a-Mole.

Dude is mad coordinated.

Posted by: freakzilla | September 22, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"4 350 LB lineman"

Mike Williams' dad?

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 22, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I know it seem like the sky is falling on this franchise right now and it is impossible to see the bright side. But if we implode this season, then we’ll get a fresh start (again). We would be in a great position to get a Franchise QB; I’m hoping Sam Bradford. That kid will be a star QB at the next level. Yes he plays in a spread offense but, he majors in finance which means he is smart and would be able to pick up pro level offense quickly. He is more athletic than he gets credit for; he played basketball, baseball, soccer, and football in high school.

I say all this to say, this may be our Tim Duncan moment.

Wish list for 2010 off-season:

1. Mr. Snyder finally fires Vinny and gets a football person to run the team
2. Sam Bradford
3. New Head Coach (preferably Mike Shanahan)
4. Trade Clinton Portis and draft a running back
5. New offensive line
6. 11 wins and the division title
7. Make it at least all the way to the conference finals
8. RESPECTABILITY around the league
9. Cowboys implode
10. And finally, hope my wife lets me get the Porsche I’ve been dreaming of.

Posted by: Ejayraptor
_________________________

I actually agree with most of this (not the Finance degree part), except:

[1] Want to do all this DESPITE having a great season THIS year.

[2] Regarding # 8, I don't want respect, I want fear.

[3] Regarding # 10, I gotta tell you Ejay... Hope is not a strategy. Grow some.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Well, in that case, I stand corrected - let's by all means go 1-15 and draft Bradford then!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

So anyone think we get Sam Bradford and Bob Stoops in a packaged deal?

How about Colt McCoy and Mack Brown?

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

There are a few unexplainable things in football. Some teams always beat others. The two teams we can pretty much always beat.....The Lions and The Panthers....No matter how bad we might be....I don't want to pencil in a win b/c that's sure fire doom. But I am confident we will open up this week...Early prediction 28-13

Posted by: iH8dallas | September 22, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Jason Reid...talkin' Backbone.

Nice work, Whippersnapper.. Your writing of late has been the equivalent of Zorn's playcalling in the first half of last yea. No more playing it safe for you. Mazeltov!

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you forgot "and get paid $7M+/year for doing so." Small thing.

Posted by: chasgiffen

Omitted because he could go somewhere else and get paid just as much (or close enough to offset the pain of coaching in DC).

Posted by: REXskins
_______________________

Disagree. Overspending to close a deal is one of Dan's fortes. Especially with coaches, where's there's no cap, the deal he'd offer would be significantly higher.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Lions --
Jim Schwartz HC
Scott Linehan OC
Gunther Cunningham DC
Martin Mayhew GM

Posted by: ksquare

======================
If it's a package deal, I'll take the Lions staff over the current Skins staff. Although, I think I'd rather have Blache over Cunningham.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

It's always darkest before the dawn. I recall that Coughlin was about to be ridden out of town on a rail in 2007, after losing the first 2 games in spectacular fashion (45-35 and 35-13). The Giants got the season back on track (against the Skins, of course) in Week 3 and the rest was Super Bowl history.

I'm going contrarian this week. F Don Banks, the Detroit Free Press and most of you whining b!tches here. The Skins are going to lay an angry, physical, punishing beat down on the Lions this week. It won't be a track meet. It will be a bare-knuckled pummeling by a group of angry Redskins players that are sick of hearing that they suck, the coach sucks, the owner sucks, Vinny sucks at picking them, etc.

The bloggers who are already scouting for new coaches, draft picks and free agents after game 2 have no faith or credibility. This season just began. Your season ended on draft day.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 22, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Clinton says we're one play away.

...from what, I have NO idea.

Posted by: DikShuttle

...from Second and 12.

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

We have a GM on staff: Morrocco Brown. Give this guy a chance. He has been in charge of late picks and undrafted FAs....where he has found players.

Vinny is a media guy, make him head of Snyder Media or whatever its called. Thats actually somewhat of a promotion. TV/Radio/cable and movies if you think of the context outside of football.

That young guy GM with the Ginas is the bomb. We have our version of that guy already. Promote him to GM!

Then, trust Brown to hire the coach.

But, even though the taste in my mouth this season is stewed siht, this is all premature. Hand 21+ and W on lions and live to fight another week.

IF we give the Lions their first win in almost 2 seasons....well its gonna get ugly.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 22, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ksquare | September 22, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

So anyone think we get Sam Bradford and Bob Stoops in a packaged deal?

How about Colt McCoy and Mack Brown?

Posted by: RITCA |

Yeah those college coach genius and their pet QB package plans always turn out well, right, Ball Coach?

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

OK - we keep talking about Shannahan, Cowher, Gruden and Holmgren as possible replacements for Zorn (Actually, I hope it does not come to that, but it looks like it will)

Aren't all of these guys kind of old school? It seems like we're at the crest of a new wave of coaches here. Gibbs and Parcells weren't able to make things work out on their last go rounds - why do we think Shanahan, Holmgren or Cowher will? (Chuckie may be the exception out of these guys.)

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I actually agree with most of this (not the Finance degree part), except:

[1] Want to do all this DESPITE having a great season THIS year.

[2] Regarding # 8, I don't want respect, I want fear.

[3] Regarding # 10, I gotta tell you Ejay... Hope is not a strategy. Grow some.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse


Regarding # 3, the size of your b*ll$ don't really matter when you're married

Posted by: Ejayraptor | September 22, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you forgot "and get paid $7M+/year for doing so." Small thing.

Posted by: chasgiffen

Omitted because he could go somewhere else and get paid just as much (or close enough to offset the pain of coaching in DC).

Posted by: REXskins
_______________________

Disagree. Overspending to close a deal is one of Dan's fortes. Especially with coaches, where's there's no cap, the deal he'd offer would be significantly higher.

Posted by: chasgiffen

-----------
There have been a number of coaches Danny couldn't lure with his coin purse in recent history. It's only going to get harder after Zorn gets fired for 2 8-8 seasons. Many of these coaches, who are already millionaires, care about more than just money. I would argue that the good ones are already rich enough to pick a team they really want to coach.

Posted by: REXskins | September 22, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Robert HEnson has quit Twitter...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=&sa=TS&eid=4495020

Posted by: 4thFloor
______________________

Apparently it was too complicated for him.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Portis on coach Jim Zorn): "It's not Jim Zorn's play calls that weren't successful. ... Santana was 60 yards downfield wide open and that was the one time Will Montgomery broke down in pressure -- he just got overpowered on the play and it wasn't like he missed his assignment. If we execute the play, Coach Zorn is a great play caller. When we're not executing and dropping passes, it makes it look like, 'Why did he call that play?' That we haven't had a lot of success in the plays called -- everybody is under fire. For the fans to boo us, you put in a lot of work and people are never satisifed if we lost or won the game. We're in position to do something special. ... I think we're all one play away, the one play that will change away."

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Zorn does appear in over his head at the moment. The truly frightening thing is, if he really can't coach, who does this team bring in?

No way does Cowher come here -- and, without a GM, he shouldn't want to.

Shanahan rode Elway and Terrell Davis to 2 SB wins. After that he was mediocre. he changed D-coordinators like tissue paper, and he was a terrible GM for the most part. The only reason it took so long for him to get canned were his SB seasons.

Gruden? He was the only modern-era coach who could get along with Al Davis, so he has that going for him; maybe it would help him with Snyder. But otherwise, he won a Super Bowl with a team Tony Dungy and GM Rick McKay built, forced out McKay, then drove the team into mediocrity and got fired. Yay. Maybe he'd be the one to tame Snyder...who knows.

I wish we could count on Snyder to be able to find a hot young coaching prospect. But truth be told, most of them wouldn't want to come here anyway. It's a bleak picture, so I really, really hope Zorn, Campbell and the team come around.

Posted by: jcabana | September 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Haven't been posting up here because i cannot deal with all the negatively. But seriously, how about some patience with Zorn (yes, I realize it's been a long 10 years with Danny). I want to win as much as you all do, but this we lose one game to the Giants and Zorn needs to be fired is BS. Sorry, but, so we fire Zorn, hire Shananhan and then what, he coaches for the rest of the season, or say he starts next season and goes 7-9, do we fire him and try someone else? Sorry, but I would like some freaking continuity that we haven't seen in this team in years - partially because we lose one game and everyone goes crazy.

Sorry, rant over. Back to work.

Oh and booing is BS. Sorry, but that's really going to motivate the team. I don't think so. I go to games to cheer my team, not to boo them. If you are going to boo, stay home.

Posted by: suzannepdc | September 22, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Suzanne, its not 1 game its 18. Zorn took a playoff team and was supposed to revolutionize its offense. Well two training camps, 9 preseason games, 18 regular season games and what has he done? Road Gibbs' power run game to a 6-2 start until the wheels fell off the CP bus, scored less points than the 0 and 16 Lions, and now has all of one offensive TD in two games and that was against a very relaxed prevent defense that was already up two scores late after we squandered our timeouts. There has been absolutely zero progress in fact, JC looks like he is regressing and for all those saying our second half was against tough teams last year we lost to Cincy and San Fran, and just put up 9 whole points on the Lambs. Continuity is one thing, sticking with a sinking ship that was underwater to begin with is just foolish. I think a lot of people and I am one of them think that Zorn was a mistake hire out of lack of better options cause they botched the coaching search so badly and had already hired the assistants before a HC. What quality head coach with a strong resume and track record of success would want to take a job where he is mandated that Campbell has to be his QB and is his number one priority and that he can't even pick his own staff? They screwed up trying tooooo hard to keep the Gibbs "continuity". As soon as the decision was made that Gregg was the guy they should have said its transition time, there was no other right way to handle it. If they wanted continuity the hire had to be Gregg. Now we're stuck with half Gibbs half Zorn stuff and it ain't working at all and Zorn is proving he was not ready. It is time to start over, especially since we're about to turn over 7 or 8 spots on the starting roster, get the "right" hire (Shanahan in my opinion) let him clean house and rebuild the way he wants and give him a minimum of 5 years. That's the continuity I want.

And not everyone blindly cheers for the team regardless of its performance/history. If the paying fans want to boo the crappy performance they are giving they have every right to.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

I'm not endorsing either of them. Just stirring the pot.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I advised Henson to quit twatting when he came in for lunch today...I had a few extra minutes to talk to him because his fries were cold, and I had to cook him up some fresh ones.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 22, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm not happy with all the calls, but the Mayor's Jurgensen comment is nonsense. Head Coach calls the shots, JC isn't Joe Montana yet, and 20/20 hindsight makes this a joke observation. JZ would have called a different play if he could go back in time, what we going to do, but Portis in a DeLorean?. We're not v good, but we're going to beat Detroit and maybe we'll get our mojo going...But for lawd's sake, pass to Kelly or Marko in the red zone!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | September 22, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

"No, we shouldn't be happy because we're 1-1 and it's early in the season."

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

We should be VERY happy we're 1-1 and it's early in the season!

First off, we're playing poorly, but are able to WIN while doing it. We could easily be 0-2 right now.

Last year, after a bad opening game, we came back, and rattled off 5 wins until the "Lambs" came to FedEx. If we could have only had the same game we did this past Sunday last season, we are playing for a playoff spot against SF in the last game of the season, and probably would have won it.

This year, we're making mistakes and correcting them early, which is a great time to get on an offensive roll while our defense holds these weak teams (and the Ginas, even) to one offensive TD a game.

Trust me, this season will unfold very pleasurably over the next 15 weeks, and all this vitriol over Zorn, Campbell, missed red zone opportunities, etc., will be a distant memory.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 22, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

cL,

Good post. Forgot about Morrocco. I would be okay with that.

And agree with you on the whole losing to Detroit would be a nightmare. Unfortunately, in the past few years it seems like the Redskins have always been involved when "something bad like that happens."

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Regarding # 3, the size of your b*ll$ don't really matter when you're married

Posted by: Ejayraptor
_______________________

Cause they're in a jar on the mantlepiece?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

all of these things are true, but how many coaches have taken a team to the playoffs in their first year? Gibbs 8-8 first season, after a 1-7 start is legendary, of course. Yes, he won a Super Bowl, in a 10 game season, the next year, so that's a little tainted.

What if the first 8 games of last season were the fluke? What if Zorn is improving this team, little by little, and we just can't see it yet, because we were spoiled by the 6-2 start last year? If you compare the St. Louis games, year over year, there is some improvement.

Just playing the Devil's Advocate here.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Got an idea, probably will be borderline tampering but hey what the heck.
We keep Zorn for this year and next year and then we convince Ray Lewis to retire and announce a suprise hiring as our new head coach.

I bet you he would not allow mediocrity, just like mike singletary in San Fran, and they are 2-0 and playing smash mouth football.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 22, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Robert Henson has quit Twitter...

Posted by: 4thFloor

Barn door closed, horses still missing.

I know mercy isn't much respected on this blog, but I feel sorry for the guy. He got seriously bit on the butt for being young, stupid and full of himself, which makes him no different from most NFL rookies.

I guess all that matriculating at TCU (the only university in America which does not recognize the use of commas) did not prepare him for the new world of Twitter, Blogs and basement dwellers who would rather scapegoat a dude than work through the problem with their team.

He was wrong in what he twitter-tweated, but the punishment doesn't fit the crime, not from us and not from miniature non-player turned rant artist Mike the- one-who-isn't-Golic,

Kid's rep is all but ruined, as he's been savaged with the same even hand as those who've been upset by a WR who spent less than a month in jail for killing a guy.

Sorry Scottish Conan Guy, may be a great day for America, but not for Redskin fans.

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Also, I have some bad news for the Portis worshippers: he's not the same back that Gibbs brought in when he returned.

When Portis first came to the 'Skins, he had a rare combo of speed, power and elusiveness. It doesn't take a genius to see he doesn't have that anymore. His power is still (somewhat) there, but his elusiveness and breakaway speed aren't. He barely ever makes anyone miss in the open field anymore, and he doesn't have the extra gear he used to.

Considering he had more carries than any other back in the NFL, especially when teams are increasingly using committees in the backfield, is this really surprising? Most backs wear down with the amount of carries CP has had. The stupidity was investing so much money in a player with so much wear, and never bringing in any real competition for him. It seems like every entrenched starter on the team has had to fight to keep their jobs over the past 3-5 years, with the following exceptions:

- Moss
- Samuels
- Thomas
- Rabach
- Sellers
- Cooley
- Portis.

Thomas is over the hill; so is Rabach. Samuels is great but getting old, and is probably one injury away from mediocrity. Cooley and Sellers are Pro Bowlers. Moss is the team's only proven deep threat, and has been for some time. When was the last time Portis outran a defense to the end zone or overpowered a guy with a stiff-arm in the open field? Exactly. He had a good run...but a well-run team would have been drafting RBs as potential replacements for the past few seasons just in case.

Posted by: jcabana | September 22, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

We keep Zorn for this year and next year and then we convince Ray Lewis to retire and announce a suprise hiring as our new head coach.

Posted by: GreatOne1

Ray Lewis already got out of one murder rap. I'm not sure he'd get away with choking out Dan and Vinny.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 22, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Give Zorn a chance! He is growing into the position and if given another year, we will see progress. We may even see it by the end of this season. Don't expect everything to change overnight. This is our second year in this offense and we will see positive results as we go along. If the coach were Cowher, he couldn't get us in the playoffs instantly either.

Posted by: kmfuss | September 22, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm OK with being 1-1. Other than the Giants, the rest of the division is 1-1. Giants have the chops to win the Division. Rams was a conference win. NFC South is going to have one of the wild card teams (either New Orleans or Atlanta). Skins fans have become hyperventilators who are behaving like they deserve The Owner, Coach Snyder, the Wicked Al Davis of the East (minus the playing or coaching skills).

New plan: Replace Executive VP of Football Operations with new lateral hire of another Executive VP of Football Operations, Bill Parcells. That'd clean out the deadwood ... not a lot of nonsense there (like there is here).

Posted by: dcsween | September 22, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on the 4th and 1 play run wide:

"What happened on the line of scrimmage, our offensive line decided to block it out a little more instead of more downhill and it strung the play out. It was a very frustrating play to watch because had we blocked it differently – and it’s their choice – it might have been a different outcome. If I was to look back on that call, I would call the same play."

Gotta admit I didn't know it was the lines "choice" on how they block a play. Hmm, waddya know?

Posted by: stevek20147 | September 22, 2009 3:35 PM

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! Even if it is the line's choice, if they made the wrong choice, isn't that a coaching issue as well?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse


We keep Zorn for this year and next year and then we convince Ray Lewis to retire and announce a suprise hiring as our new head coach.

Posted by: GreatOne1

Make that PLAYER-Coach, make it starting next week, and I'm on board.

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

09/21/10 - RANJON, MD - AP - PG Police were called to the scene at Fed Ex Field this afternoon, where owner Dan Snyder and GM Vinny (the Mole) Cerrato were found dead in the owner's suite this afternoon.

New head coach Ray Lewis proclaimed ignorance of the crime, stating "they were just a little blue when I left the office".

Police have no viable suspects at the time, but it was reported that Snyder had a print out of the "Redskins Insider" blog stuffed in his mouth.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 22, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Danny has made calls to Shanahan. I see him as the most likely guy to come in. but with Shanahan, its not an interim deal, but a whole changing in the power structure of the team.

If Danny goes interim HC, Joe Bugel strikes me as the guy to put in charge.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Robert HEnson has quit Twitter...

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 22, 2009 4:56 PM

That's a shame; he's going to be the starting WLB by December. The bionics, duct tape, and bubble gum that hold Rocky Mac's knee together aren't going to last the whole season.

Posted by: dcsween | September 22, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Why don't we just make Sonny Jurgenson head coach, Brian Mitchell the OC, and Lavar Arrington the DC. Obviously, they know what's wrong with the team and how to fix it (tongue in cheek).

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I must say this article is right on the money!!! Zorn is in WAY over his head and will definitely never get another head coach job after he gets fired at the end of the season, if he makes it that long. I'm not that caught up in his lack of experience, look at Mike Tomlin as an example, experience is good but if you have the right guy with not much experience it can be great. I don't want Cowher and I don't want Shannahan!!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1 | September 22, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I must say this article is right on the money!!! Zorn is in WAY over his head and will definitely never get another head coach job after he gets fired at the end of the season, if he makes it that long. I'm not that caught up in his lack of experience, look at Mike Tomlin as an example, experience is good but if you have the right guy with not much experience it can be great. I don't want Cowher and I don't want Shannahan!!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1 | September 22, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

For those of you who want to "Give Zorn a chance" and "play devil's advocate", kudos to you. Because the reality is, there is a large portion of this fan base that feels the same way. Don't feel the need to run a disclaimer before your comment to avoid attacks from the rest of these knee-jerk artists who have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the Post's negative smear campaign against this franchise. I have never - in my 25 years of reading the Post - observed two consecutive days of articles aimed at undermining this team. You would think we were the only f*cking team to ever win a game without a touchdown. The Ravens did it 6 or 7 times en route to a Super Bowl in 2000, and Billick survived along the way. Great, original Post writers like Shirley Povich would roll over in his grave if he knew the childish Shenanigans that the Post is up to right now. So all of you can stay preoccupied with your witty anti-Snyder quips and Zorn bashing, and the rest of us will support the team like the prior generation of fans always did.

Posted by: rob10873 | September 22, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

On the Sonny vs Zorn spat, I have a different concern.

If this is the relationship between Sonny and Zorn, I can see Zorn keeping Campbell away from Sonny. Sonny was a brilliant QB with a big arm AND a sharp football mind AND got tutored by Vince Lombardi. Sonny has been in and around NFL football for 50 years.

I would want Campbell to learn from Sonny, even if its done informally. My guess is this family feud is costing Campbell an opportunity with a valuable and unique resource.

This seems worse than any press conference spat.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Over at Yahoo!, the 5th most popular search is: Robert Henson

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Dear Coach Zorn:

Another example of how NFL offenses have opened up since the late 1970s is the 400 yard passing game, which used to be fairly rare. For a while, Sonny Jurgenson was the all-time leader with five such games and Namath ranked second with three. [Mostly playing in 14 GAME seasons without many of the new rules that restrict defenses from restricting receivers in their pass patterns.]

Now there have been 189 such performances by 101 players, led by Dan Marino's 13, seven each by Peyton Manning, Joe Montana and Warren Moon and six each by Drew Bledsoe and Fouts.

Posted by: periculum | September 22, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

My prediction for Robert Henson's next tweet:

I may have called the fans dumb, but at least I'm not suing you

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Come on folks, they've played 2 GAMES!!! Does the offense have a problem in the red zone right now, yes. Can it be fixed, yes. Zorn called two plays that should have been touchdowns, JC threw two passes that should have been touchdowns, Thomas and Sellers dropped two passes that should have been touchdowns. They make those catches, who knows how it turns out. It's SEPTEMBER!!!!!! Think the Pats, Cowboys and Titans are stressing like this? Maybe the Cowboys but that's a good thing; come in from the ledge! If you're all correct, there will be plenty of time to kvetch about this in, say, November, when the Skins are 2-10. They moved the ball better this week, Detroit has a rookie coach and quarterback and haven't won a game since '07. Get a little joy out of the season while you still can!

Posted by: bobmatthews1 | September 22, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

From my view, there are two main problems:
Frustration and impatience!!

Fans are tired of seeing a once proud organization continue to look so inept. What makes it worse is the constant ribbing that we take in the national media (i.e. Don Banks, Peter King, et al).

To make matters worse, our high expectations in the offseason don't pan out during the regular season. To add insult to injury, we see other 1st time head coaches have great success and we're tired of waiting.

As they say, winning cures all. Hopefully, in a few more weeks we'll all be feeling a lot better.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Some context to Portis losing 2 on 4th and 1/2 a yard: The skins were trying to use up the clock. Also the Rams inexplicably seemed to give the game away on their last drive prior by not running Jackson who seemed unstopable. 5 yard, 3 yard runs and on 3rd and 2 they line up with 4 recievers. Jackson's runs before that were 6,5,and 6. You would have thought they would have at least kept a back in the back field. Maybe the thought carries over.

But the skins O-line is the weak link. What is that saying about a team and it's weakist link? Skins fans should adjust their mindset and see this as a defensive team. Till they address this area (or hopefully backups step up and prove themselves) 9-7 wins should be things we hope for. The Ravens won a super bowl in that fashion. Though they weren't the perenial playoff contenders they might have hoped, Defenses still win games. There are usually only one or two teams that have offenses potent enough to have their offense carry them.

Still if the back ups can't step in you have to question if Bugel is still the coach he once was. They faced this problem last season. There was time the players to gear up. Still there was 0 draft type O-lineman added this off season. Bugel's loss of his daughter is truly regretable. But there is an issue that arises. If Heyer doesn't become adequate this season, will he ever? If backups don't step in to play, Bugel isn't coaching up to his normally high standard or it is a personel problem. The obvious lack of a GM has me favouring the later.

Posted by: chavez66 | September 22, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

For those of you who want to "Give Zorn a chance" and "play devil's advocate", kudos to you. Because the reality is, there is a large portion of this fan base that feels the same way. Don't feel the need to run a disclaimer before your comment to avoid attacks from the rest of these knee-jerk artists who have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the Post's negative smear campaign against this franchise. I have never - in my 25 years of reading the Post - observed two consecutive days of articles aimed at undermining this team. You would think we were the only f*cking team to ever win a game without a touchdown. The Ravens did it 6 or 7 times en route to a Super Bowl in 2000, and Billick survived along the way. Great, original Post writers like Shirley Povich would roll over in his grave if he knew the childish Shenanigans that the Post is up to right now. So all of you can stay preoccupied with your witty anti-Snyder quips and Zorn bashing, and the rest of us will support the team like the prior generation of fans always did.

Posted by: rob10873 | September 22, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Right its the Posts fault for all these years the skins have stunk and that we can't now score TDs, all their negativity is just debilitating this otherwise elite franchise and its voodoo dolls of criticism are causing the front office failures.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

From my view, there are two main problems:
Frustration and impatience!!

Fans are tired of seeing a once proud organization continue to look so inept. What makes it worse is the constant ribbing that we take in the national media (i.e. Don Banks, Peter King, et al).

To make matters worse, our high expectations in the offseason don't pan out during the regular season. To add insult to injury, we see other 1st time head coaches have great success and we're tired of waiting.

As they say, winning cures all. Hopefully, in a few more weeks we'll all be feeling a lot better.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

extremely well said, first time head coaches, new systems and new qb's are succeeding all of the league yet all we hear is that we're adjusting and it takes time over and over again as we continue to be a below average offense and an average team year in and year out.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 22, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Some context to Portis losing 2 on 4th and 1/2 a yard: The skins were trying to use up the clock.

Posted by: chavez66

Huh? The clock stops when the play ends on 4th down unless you make the 1st down. At most we're talking a couple seconds.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

PORTIS IS NOT THE RB HE WAS IN DENVER! TRADE HIM!!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | September 22, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Police have no viable suspects at the time, but it was reported that Snyder had a print out of the "Redskins Insider" blog stuffed in his mouth.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston
______________________________

Excellent visual here, JohnD. Big kudos.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

PORTIS IS NOT THE RB HE WAS IN DENVER! TRADE HIM!!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | September 22, 2009 5:59 PM | Re

I think the cap hit prevents anyone trading for him besides the physical drop off as he gets older.

Posted by: will_ga | September 22, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Who led the 'Skins in receptions last yr?
How many TDs did he catch?
How many of those were thrown by the QB?
Who is the leading receiver this year?

See the pattern?


Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 22, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

You are the CEO of a large company. Your CFO, although loyal to you, has a hit or miss track record. Some of the products that he has endorsed, which required you to invest millions of dollars in, haven't panned out. However, some of his smaller ideas that didn't cost too much have provided great dividends.
You hired your plant manager on a whim, in hopes that he could recreate the magic of a once proud business. In the past year and a half he has met your desired quota less than 50% of the time.
Some of your products are old and others aren't as marketable as your competitor's.

Your dilemma: Is the problem the product, the plant manager, or your CFO? How long do you allow your business to underperform before taking action?

I know this isn't a straight up comparison (because the NFL has a salary cap), but the basic principle applies.

Posted by: RITCA | September 22, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Zorn's response to Jurgensen was TOTALLY APPROPRIATE, and it is really uncalled for for JASON REID to criticize Zorn for it. It just is not reasonable to expect that Zorn be forced to sit there and let Jurgensen say what he wants and not make a cogent, reasonable response to it like he did. He didn't "get into it" with Jurgensen. And for that matter, Jurgensen was perfectly within his right to ask the question he did the way he did - it was fine. IT IS THE MEDIA which is MAKING A MOUNTAIN out of - out of NOTHING AT ALL!

Posted by: shane2229 | September 22, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

I agree, 3rd and 5 portis pass was idiotic, its an obvious passing down, but the other 2 were dropped passes, how is this Zorns fault? the 4th and 1 play was blocked wrong and strung out, WTF do you guys suggest? Every coach on earth runs on that play, if you cant man up and push them off the ball for 1 yard you suck,yet everyone blames Z.Ive watched every game for 5 seasons, I know Redskins football, the bottom line is the O-line isnt very good..thats why we couldnt score last season, thats why you get stuffed at the goal line...stop blaming Zorn...getting him fired will do jack for this team, its takes time to build a winner, the problem is YOU are no different than the Danny...impatient, unrealistic and you think we have the players to dominate everyone...BOTH OF YOU AND THE DANNY ARE WRONG! First, this is the NFL, you arent going to Dominate anyone and just so you dips**ts know, we are a DEFENSIVE TEAM, get used to it. Its never ending, fire everyone over and over, and what has that gotten us? no where....you know..it might not be coaching, maybe its the players...there just not as good as you thought they were...even Gibbs couldnt win with this bunch...but oh yea, hes over the hill. I remember everyone calling for Shotties head too.

Get a grip, firing the coaches isnt going to get you what you want...Stop being A DANNY!

Posted by: tgy1369 | September 22, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

shane has it right.

Jurgensen was a great QB, in his era!!!

The fact that he would come out 40 years after the last time he wore a one-bar helmet and queastion a game that has changed so much in three years not to mention 40.

Its the same with joe Gibbs, he was one of the greatest coaches of all time, in his era. When he came back the game had changed and it proved to be a bit too much for him.

Sonny should stick to calling games and let Zorn do his job.

Posted by: CheyenneWY | September 22, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm trying not to be Gloom and Doom but when we went up against a good team in the Giants we basically got railroaded around the field. They controlled that game from 0:00 to 60:00 and didn't crush us points wise because we do have a very good defense and they failed to execute.
Then the Rams come in a mediocre team with only a very good running back and decent QB. We can only put up 9 points. That appears to be who we are.

No way this team playing the way it has for last 6-7 games can beat anyone in our division twice. We have to take on Saints and Brees who is playing out of his mind and I think we are pretty even steven as it were with Bucs and Atlanta who is on their way up not down.

All this to say - I don't think a coaching change mid-season ever did too many much good but another 8-8 season achieved by having a flash or two of brilliance and mostly beating mediocre teams and Zorn has to go.

And if we lose to Detroit . . . seriously what do you do then psychologically?

Posted by: sfskin | September 22, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Just a quick question...after everything that happend in the offseason with trying to get rid of the QB...

Would one of the ones that were floated as possibles have us in a better situation right now? That QB would still have the same suspect O-Line and still have "play not to lose" play calls.

That being said...Zorn cant make those guys catch balls. If the HB Option would have worked, everyone would say "wow, what guts on 3rd down and what vision he has". Zorn thinks outside the box.

Everyone knows that close to the goal line you are going to run...whats the problem with trying to catch a bad defense napping.

PATIENCE

Posted by: CheyenneWY | September 22, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

If the players dont by into the system or philosophy then its a tough battle ahead. Alot of the quotes in the media are guys pretty much saying that they dont want to say anything.

Its not the "I got my coach's back--we beleive" its more of the "he is my coach, so I better not say anything"

How long before the name Cower starts to pop up?

Posted by: CheyenneWY | September 22, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

And at some point don't you have to ask - if the players aren't executing the plays consistently isn't that a reflection of the locker room and the coach?

The players and coaches all run around saying we can do this and then scratching their heads when they don't. So the obvious follow up is
1. We are an average team not good.
2. The players don't have confidence in the system so they're execution is poor.
3. The coaches don't have confidence in the players do they call safe plays.
4. We are not a good team. . . or at least we are not a good offensive team. . .we're not even average. . . we're mediocre. . . *sigh*

Posted by: sfskin | September 22, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

If the Skins don't do a 180 before the bye week Zorn is gone. Mark it down.

Is it all his fault? Absolutely not. Skirting the whole discussion of our aging running backs and O-line, just look at our three 2nd round picks last year. Now say Royal, Mannigham, Jackson... I mean WTF?

Sadly, as long as Snyder and Vinny are running the show around here, this broken record will be playing for years to come.

Posted by: bones21 | September 22, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I've said it before and I'll say it again, an offense is only as good as it's line.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone heard any rumors about who takes Thomas's place on the 53? Maybe Will Robinson? Another guard?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

YALL MAKE ME FRIGGIN' SICK!!!!

Some Redskins "fans" are just as impatient as the owner. Fire Zorn, fire Cerrato...I haven't missed a game in 10 seasons and there's enough blame to go around. The problem with this team is too much change. We impulsively call for firings and benchings rather than building and filling holes.

If a play doesn't work then you will be second guessed. No way I fire Zorn for what he's done in the last two weeks. Now what I do fault him for is for what he hasn't done. Blame Vinny all you want but we have some weapons on offense that Zorn doesn't use. Snyder would be a fool for firing Zorn simply because you knew who Zorn was when you hired him. Give him more time.

If you want to help this team and help Zorn, give him the authority to manage Portis. So if you change coaches...then what...you still got Portis, you still got Moss, ARE.

I may be in the minority but Zorn stays until the end of the season and maybe next. Have ya'll ever thought it could be the players many of which are here from when "JESUS" JOE GIBBS was here.

Changing the coach fixes nothing with this franchise.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

shane has it right.

Jurgensen was a great QB, in his era!!!

The fact that he would come out 40 years after the last time he wore a one-bar helmet and queastion a game that has changed so much in three years not to mention 40.

Posted by: CheyenneWY

Sonny has been watching this team for decades. Its his responsibility in his current role to ask questions of the coach. Further, he is highly educated in the role of a QB, in offense strategy and in play calling.

Nothing Sonny did was inappropriate.

As for those who say the criticism of Zorn's option pass came after it didn't work, as soon as I saw Portis move to throw the ball, my immediate thought was "get rid of Zorn".

Just to clarify, options work best if there is plenty of vertical field, not cramped down near the goal line. You run an option hoping to get a receiver wide open.

If ARE was the passer, it would have been more acceptable because ARE was a very good QB in college and can throw a pass into a tight area. Still wouldn't have liked the call, but at least you'd have a passer capable of completing a pass to a guy who is covered.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

The jury is still out on Vinny. In the two years he has been exclusively in charge of personnel, he has made some mistakes, but has made our defense better. You can't rebuild a defensive line and offensive line in one offseason.

Ya'll forget Gibbs overcommitted to veterans, coddled Portis, amassed inferior and overated talent on offense. True, we went to the playoffs twice, but the PERSONNEL was not in place to build on it.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

You know what I notice about the defense...EVERY player on the defense gets on the field TRYON, JARMON, GOLSTON, MOORE...it's amazing how the defense uses all it's active players but the offense doesn't.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Changing the coach fixes nothing with this franchise.

Posted by: rickyroge

Actually, it might fix one significant problem -- depending on who follows Zorn. Zorn is a problem. Wish it weren't the case. But it is.

Now if I had a choice between firing just Danny, just Vinny or just Zorn ... I'd go higher up. But I don't think the upper mgmt is going to fire itself.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

PORTIS IS NOT THE RB HE WAS IN DENVER! TRADE HIM!!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | September 22, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

a) you're a tard
b) what happened to our downhill running game?
c) sonny jurgensen was not asking questions, he was making comments in a very condescending patronizing way...jim zorn did the right thing by being a man, and he continues to do the right thing by standing behind his plays

no one on this blog would possibly understand what it takes to be an nfl coach day in and day out, stop playing fantasy football, stick your d in some v, and then realize hey, the skins are always going to suck as long as they belong to sucubus jew

Posted by: BMACattack | September 22, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

As much we kill Devin Thomas around here, JC threw an absolute bullet that none of you turkeys would even sniff. Cannot defend Mike Sellers for his drop, though I love him as a player.

As for Zorn, I want to let the season play out, but Im losing the faith.

And here's what I think.....don't get me started on Snyder...and Vinny for that matter.

Posted by: mario13 | September 22, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

I want to add my vote to those who for Zorn. He has guts. Both his decisions to go for it on fourth down were correct. The first one won the game. The second one, although it didn't work out as he hoped, was still the logically correct thing to do. Yet, I doubt that either Cowher or Shanahan would have made those calls. I know with certainty Gibbs would not. NFL coaches are cowards. They don't want to make the decision that might cause the team to lose. They lose with errors of omission, not errors of commission.
And its ridiculous to criticize Zorn for almost not letting the clock run down and say that Gibbs would never have made such a mistake. Did you forget how Gibbs called the second timeout that cost the team 15 yards and the game?
Zorn is the man. I don't know if the team appreciates him or not. Most of you have made it quite clear that the fans don't. The Redskins fans were always overrated and now they really are a bunch of crybabies (as are most of you who post here). The Redskins need continuity under quality leadership, which they can get from Zorn. They will probably get what their so-called fans deserve, another overrated big-name coach and more years wandering in the desert.

Posted by: richardshaker | September 22, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

How can Zorn do his job when his nuts are getting squeezed by Sonny, Danny and the rest of us who sit on the sidelines, in the comfort our air conditioned rooms, while he puts it on the line for 100+ hours each week getting a group of professionals ready to do their jobs? Portis needs to run the damn ball through the holes. Receivers need to catch the damn ball when its thrown to them. And the linemen need to make the blocks necessary to run the offense like its drawn up. We haven't had a winner in many years in DC and it is not on Jim Zorn's shoulders.

Posted by: keith18 | September 22, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

179 comments already?

You hamsters talk too much. More kibble-eating, less typing!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 22, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Vinny fails at life.

Snyder fails at life.

Six Flags Georgia will cost too much money to repair since it is underwater, further putting Snyder in the hole.

Posted by: Randy_Hawkins | September 22, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think: Zorn out Shanahan in.
Basically the whole defense will be back and the offense well the say that cooley will be there and Moss will be there and........well lets just say the offense of side of the ball will be revamped and Vinny going to get a call form Donald, and Dannyboy is going to start winning with a team he nothing to do with. he'll just write the checks. and we will get better and I also think that CP wont be around. call me stupid but Shanahan knows running backs. Give Shanahan the keys to the R8 and let him do his job. that is all.

Posted by: MGDMaster21 | September 22, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Intelligent. Crisp. Disciplined. Professional. Organized.

These words do not currently describe the Redskins' play in totality.

When they do, the Redskins can beat any team in the league.

When they don't, the Redskins struggle at home to the league's bottom dwellers and lose easily winnable games.

Everybody in Ashburn needs to have these words describe their coaching and play, every play, to reap the rewards of victory. If not, the fans will continue to unleash with a fury the frustrations of having to sit through continued unsatisfactory performance.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 22, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

The jury is still out on Vinny. In the two years he has been exclusively in charge of personnel, he has made some mistakes, but has made our defense better. You can't rebuild a defensive line and offensive line in one offseason.

Ya'll forget Gibbs overcommitted to veterans, coddled Portis, amassed inferior and overated talent on offense. True, we went to the playoffs twice, but the PERSONNEL was not in place to build on it.

Posted by: rickyroge

The jury has been in on Vinny for quite some time. He's not a complete bust, but he's part of the problem.

Gibbs was 2 steps forward and 1 step back. He dramatically changed the culture for the better and restored respect to the organization -- and made the playoffs twice. Those were major accomplishments. However, the various trades, free agent signings and drafts were highly mixed. Gibbs, as team president, had a lot to do with that mixed record.

On to Vinny. The hiring of Zorn as HC was the result of a broken approach to the hiring of a HC (not a reflection on Zorn). No doubt, Vinny had a role in that.

Vinny's drafts and personnel moves in the post-Gibbs era have ranged between astute and schizophrenic. Trading for Jason Taylor (win now) while also keeping all 10 draft picks (win later) is one such example. Failing to go after OL is inexplicable. Fred Davis was a horrid pick because the starting TE job is Cooley's ... for years to come. On the plus side, he's found late round overachievers like Horton, Moore and hopefully Marko Mitchell.

It doesn't take a genius to pay huge $$$ to Albert and Hall, but cap management has been a challenge. I suspect that Gibbs and Snyder contributed more to that issue than Vinny did.

All in all, Vinny deserves to be shown the door. His good doesn't outweigh his bad.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 22, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse


To suggest that JZ trusts CP throwing the ball over JC is just pure nonsense. JC is the QB of the team - you know, the guy who throws the ball 20 -30 times a game. The guy who throws less interceptions than anyone in the league. It’s likely true that JZ thinks his receivers can’t get open in the red zone without trickery, but it’s not a trust issue with his QB.


Now, that said, JZ deserves all of the criticism he is receiving. He is ultimately responsible for the team’s execution on the field. If the players aren't executing, it's because he's not coaching them well enough to execute. The head coach is ALWAYS responsible for the product on the field. The players don’t get fired, coaches do. He needs to realize that.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget that we play teams that are all 0-2 in the next 4 weeks. It is very possible we will go into the MNF game at 5-1 or 4-2 and we will all be drinking the Kool-Aid until the reality hits on MNF and then the second haalf of the year schedule.

Posted by: 3rings | September 22, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 22, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

The biggest bust pick in my mind has been DT11. Guy is apparently too stupid or too lazy to keep his head in the game, learn the playbook, act and prepare like a pro, etc.

Either one is bad, very bad. The only possible upside is that its B) and he will figure it out. Soon. My hope is that he has a breakout game or two, and we can send him off to some where else that wants to send us a 2010 #2 in return. Then we slide MM up the food chain and onto the field where he belongs.


Re RH51: yeah he screwed up big time. He knows he screwed up bad, has apologized, has obviously listened to the counsel of his elders such as LFB, Phil Daniels, Cornelius etc etc. He has seen the wisdom of putting down the twitter pipe and going cold turkey. Good for him.

For me, all is forgiven, and he now has an uphill, but winnable, battle to regain over all fan support.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 22, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Sonny lost it when he fell in love with the horrible Gus Frerotte.

He loved when Gus threw it away and he told Gus to say his favorite play was the kneel down.

Sonny should shut it, he got benched for Kilmer

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 22, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" - Vince Lombardi

Each week is a mini season in the NFL. You prepare for each opponent meticulously, gameplan, watch film, script plays, psych up your players, all for one 3 hour game played under a microscope of media scrutiny and fan analysis.

Last year Zorn came on the scene and won a bunch of games early by being daring. By the second half of the season, there was enough film on his playcalling to slow down his offense. Injuries to the o-line & lack of depth hurt, and Zorn got very, very conservative.

After a humbling finish, JZ spent the whole offseason trying to right the ship. So far this season, his tinkering has produced a 1-1 record, pretty much exactly where we all expected the Redskins to be at this point in the year.

In the NFL, where wins are the only thing that matter, Zorn's Redskins are 1-1. That's a fact. The end justifies the means, and Zorn did what he needed to do to win against the Rams.

Zorn's offense is getting better. They moved the ball against the Giants & the Rams. Detroit is very weak, and Stafford is in WAY over his head. I think the Redskins will find glaring weaknesses in Detroit's defense & offense when looking at film preparing for Sunday.

The Redskins will generate 400+ yards against the Lions, have 1 defensive TD, and limit the Lions to 1 offensive TD, and shut up the naysayers for one more week.

Anyone who seriously thinks the Redskins will lose to the Lions is certifiably insane.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 22, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:
we won.

Here's what I think:
Fans and analysts (hof or not) who complain when you win are crappy fans.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 22, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Sonny should shut it, he got benched for Kilmer

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 22, 2009 8:06 PM |
=======================================

OMG is that you, George Allen's ghost?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 22, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Intelligent. Crisp. Disciplined. Professional. Organized.

These words do not currently describe the Redskins' play in totality.

When they do, the Redskins can beat any team in the league.

When they don't, the Redskins struggle at home to the league's bottom dwellers and lose easily winnable games.

Everybody in Ashburn needs to have these words describe their coaching and play, every play, to reap the rewards of victory. If not, the fans will continue to unleash with a fury the frustrations of having to sit through continued unsatisfactory performance.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe

I wouldn't put it in those terms, but while we are on the topic, I'll say the following:
Zorn is quirky, thoughtful, interesting and awful as a head coach. His philosophies won’t work at the macro-level. He might be able to make a QB more elusive by throwing blocking pads at them, but the unconventional philosophy and tactics won’t translate into successful play calling and wins.

Also, watching the Giants makes me realize how overmatched we are with respect to coaching. Their offense doesn’t execute better than ours because they have better players, it’s because they are coached on such a higher level.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

THE GODFATHER starring:

Jack Kent Cooke- Vito Corleone
Joe Gibbs- Tom Hagan
Marty Schottenheimer- Sonny Corleone
Dan Snyder- Fredo Corleone
Vinny Cerrato- Moe Greene
Jim Zorn- Tessio
Greg Blache- Pete Clemenza
Sonny Jurgenson- Hyman Roth
Clinton Portis- Carmine

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:
we won.

Here's what I think:
Fans and analysts (hof or not) who complain when you win are crappy fans.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 22, 2009 8:10 PM |

I f'in love it!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Also, watching the Giants makes me realize how overmatched we are with respect to coaching. Their offense doesn’t execute better than ours because they have better players, it’s because they are coached on such a higher level.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 8:14 PM |

Boy people sure weren't saying that in New York a few years ago. They hated Coughlin and his staff. He, too, was quirky but also arrogant, grating, and loud. Winning seems to cure evrything. They wanted his head and he was 1 step from the door.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Good point scampbell1975...

I don't understand how fans think they are not as impulsive as the owner.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Boy people sure weren't saying that in New York a few years ago. They hated Coughlin and his staff. He, too, was quirky but also arrogant, grating, and loud. Winning seems to cure evrything. They wanted his head and he was 1 step from the door.

Posted by: scampbell1975

Coughlin quirky? Nah, just demanding and intense. JZ can't hold Coughlin's left testicle. Coughlin COACHES *winning* football teams, always has

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think: Zorn out Shanahan in.... call me stupid but Shanahan knows running backs. Give Shanahan the keys to the R8 and let him do his job. that is all.
Posted by: MGDMaster21
-----
I wouldn't call you stupid but I would beg to differ. What makes you think Shanahan knows RB's? His system is what is known for making RB's... Sick stats in his offense. However, what good RB's have they ever had that have done anything there consistently or on another theam. TD and CP. That's it.. The others were maybe one year wonders and they have been searching for CP's replacement since...

Shannahan is not all the you guys are making him out to be... He had maybe the best QB (Elway) ever and TD, Rod Smith and Sharpe... That's how he got 2 rings.... After they left.... Ha... Plummer? Griese? Jury still out on Cutler... His DEF sucked big nuts... Their D LINE has been the worst for years and we're talking about bringing him here with full AUTHORITY to run the Show...

Now that would be an absolute joke.

We don't need a big name coach 2.0 to come in here get paid and flop at trying to repeat their past success...

Give Zorn his time... he's coached for a little over a year. That is not Patience... stopped being a Danny.

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Coughlin quirky? Nah, just demanding and intense. JZ can't hold Coughlin's left testicle. Coughlin COACHES *winning* football teams, always has

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 8:27 PM |

But he benefitted from patience. Demanding and intense was mistaken for a$$holish early on in New York. Again, funny how winning changes peoples perspective. We are only 2 games into a second season 1-1. Let's not sink the ship yet is all I'm sayin'. Coughlin's first season at New York went similarly to Zorns (almost identically actually). Yes Coughlin had quitea bit more experience at that time and it certainly remains to be seen if Zorn ever improves but our fans cry the sky is falling quicker than Danny does.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Alridge is back. They need his speed. Hope he worked on protecting the ball.

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

How can Zorn do his job when his nuts are getting squeezed by Sonny, Danny and the rest of us who sit on the sidelines, in the comfort our air conditioned rooms, while he puts it on the line for 100+ hours each week getting a group of professionals ready to do their jobs?

Posted by: keith18

You make me feel SO like a 9 to 5 McDonald's employee....

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I will be damned!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:
we won.
Here's what I think:
Fans and analysts (hof or not) who complain when you win are crappy fans.
Posted by: pabrian2003

I like your spirit, but it’s a short-sighted, shallow angle to take. It’s relatively easy to recognize that the team is sputtering. 362 total yards of offense would be a stellar performance except that it was against the Rams and it resulted in 9 points. And, there is NO way to rationalize a RISKY decision to go for it on fourth down when kicking a short field goal gives forces your opponent to march down the field and score a touchdown with NO TIMEOUTS. JZ would have suffered great bodily harm leaving the stadium if that had backfired.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

5 running backs are now on the active roster. Who's gonna be the odd man out?

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Alridge is back. They need his speed. Hope he worked on protecting the ball.

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Where is that coming from? Who says so? I would be all for it though...

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Alridge is back. They need his speed. Hope he worked on protecting the ball.

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Where is that coming from? Who says so? I would be all for it though...

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:44 PM | R

Redskins.com

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Alridge is back. They need his speed. Hope he worked on protecting the ball.

Posted by: TWISI | September 22, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Where is that coming from? Who says so? I would be all for it though...

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:44 PM

It's on redskins.com so it's bank.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

This is what I know. The Redskins since Snyder took control( except for 1999 when they made the playoffs and before he started playing the short version of Jerry Jones) have been a disaster. Why did Gibbs leave early? He couldn't wotk for the guy. The Redskins for all Snyder's money are a joke and probably the worst run pro sports franchise considering the dollars Snyder put into the team.

Let's face it , Snyder owns the team and can run it any way he wants, which to my way of thinking is into the ground.

Posted by: pjente | September 22, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

You are right.... He is back. Nice. I wonder what this means for Rock/Ladell/Rock... They need to committ to 3 maybe 4 RB's and move on...

I'm wondering about Rock future here... Ladell might be gone after this year.

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Alridge is back. They need his speed. Hope he worked on protecting the ball.

Posted by: TWISI |

Why would we want Butterfingers Aldrige back? We're talking like this dude is Joe Washington.

Posted by: dcwun | September 22, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse


The trouble with the "let's be patient with the head coach" movement here is timing.

It was appropriate when Marty S. was coaching. Guy with a track record, a plan, and experience, was run out of town by an impatient owner, fixated on a shiny toy.

I don't doubt that someday somewhere Zorn will be a good coach.

But what--other than being handed the job when the people they wanted said "no thanks" qualifies him for it?

He has NEVER been an OC

He has NEVER been a pro play-caller.

He has shown no imagination or creativity as a play caller or a play designer.

He was emasculated from the git-go by Snyder and Cerrato, has no position of strength to deal from. How can he win his players fealty when he can't stand up to the owner, or even one of the teams badly fading former superstars?

He's been playing against a house armed with a stacked deck.

Posted by: TheCork | September 22, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I like it... but I think we could use O-Line depth as well.. I liked Bridges... I think he might be back... I don't think we'll keep 5 RB's too long... Seems inefficient.

Posted by: EinVB | September 22, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Jason Reid has yet to report that Anthony Aldrige has been resigned to the active roster. I read this myself but I'm wondering if her should be fired as well.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Sonny is great but it was inappropriate for Sonny to use his reputation in challenging Zorn in that way. Sonny came from an ancient system where QBs called their own plays. (I kind of miss that but it will not return.) It is not relevant in the least what a playcalling, macho QB would have done in that era 40-50 years ago.

I just wish Zorn would let his O-Coord call the game and concentrate on game/ clock management and chain of command issues.

Posted by: hz9604 | September 22, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Good thing we brought back Alridge as a 5th RB instead of using Thomas' slot to bring in another guard. Dodged a bullet there.


Sarcasm aside, my guess is this is a two-step move, and someone else will be cut soon to make room for a guard. I'm guessing they want to test Alridge's speed in a real game and see if he helps them.

Posted by: freakzilla | September 22, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Blah blah blah. Gloom and doom.

Does the team have issues? Yes. Do I think they are the 1-15 team you all are making them out to be? No!

No matter what we do next week, all you so called fans are going to be back here b!tching an complaining that the sky is falling.

Posted by: daimon_junk | September 22, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I certainly agree with that assessment Cork but the problem is that he is the guy that is here now and I'm tired of starting over. I think given time and an O line he will improve. I hope.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

So Cork...if you think Zorn may be a good coach someday why should we not be patient.

Snyder will ALWAYS be in a damn if I do damn if I don't predicament.
if he fires Zorn he lacks patience. If he keeps Zorn he'll get ripped.

If Snyder hired a GM we would have the patience for rebuilding...

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:
Reid tried to walk into a coaches meeting to look over game film.

Here's what I think:
Buges would slap the sh!t out of Reid for even trying.

Posted by: clark202 | September 22, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

'm curious if JZ would entertain input from Holmgren....if the opportunity presented itself...if ownership approached jz, and put this out there, brought Holmgren in on a short term basis to help JZ get the offense running, what the reaction would be......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 11:05 AM

Just doing some leisurely catching up...BG, I think this is an excellent, excellent idea. On this type of stage I don't think either party would be up for it, but that would be an ideal solution. Nice one.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | September 22, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Sarcasm aside, my guess is this is a two-step move, and someone else will be cut soon to make room for a guard. I'm guessing they want to test Alridge's speed in a real game and see if he helps them.

Posted by: freakzilla | September 22, 2009 8:53 PM |

I don't know. We still have 9 lineman + 1 on the practice squad. We're only rolling with 2 qb's and one's gimpy this week. Wierd situation.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Jurgenson was drunk and his colostomy bag was full.

Go Zorn!

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

'm curious if JZ would entertain input from Holmgren....if the opportunity presented itself...if ownership approached jz, and put this out there, brought Holmgren in on a short term basis to help JZ get the offense running, what the reaction would be......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 22, 2009 11:05 AM

Just doing some leisurely catching up...BG, I think this is an excellent, excellent idea. On this type of stage I don't think either party would be up for it, but that would be an ideal solution. Nice one.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | September 22, 2009 8:55 PM |

I've often wondered if Zorn talks to Holmgren for advice on the sly. He should.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Here's A List of What I Think:

1. The play calling has been unbearable
2. JC is FAR from the problem with this offense
3. You let a HC develop if he has continued to show progress. Zorn has not.
4. JZ did not take over the Lions, he took over a playoff team and made them worse.
5. JZ often appears lost and confused on the sideline
6. Sorry was 100% correct in his assesment of the halfback pass
7. I could care less if Portis is rested during the week. The drop off after him at RB is STEEP!

Coaching is THE issue with this team. Even with the O-Line issues, this offense has under performed tremendously.

Posted by: dcwun | September 22, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Jurgenson was drunk and his colostomy bag was full.

Go Zorn!

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse
==========================================
But he was still right. What's worse is that Zorn was sober when he made those calls.

Posted by: clark202 | September 22, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Redskins - 6
Lions - 3

After this win Zorn and the rest of the team give a boatload of excuses and we are talking about the same crap next week...same old stuff...blah blah blah

Posted by: kickass10101 | September 22, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

How about some of these players step up and make plays, so people will stop blaming Zorn for everything. Sellers and Thomas catch the touchdown passes and this wouldn't be a discussion.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 22, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Zorn has underperformed...personally I think it's because he doesn't use his players.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Dude called himself the worst coach ever last year, remember? I'm all for continuity and patience, but this guy is not going to cut it. He's not involved at all in the defense or special teams. He retained Gibb's running game and his passing attack is a West coast knock-off, gadget system. If he relinquishes the play calling, he's NO value to the team. Serious fouls managing the clock. Dude needs to go...

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Sonny was right and wrong. HE has the experience and juice to change the call plus the credentials to back it up. JC unfortunately does not. BUT, players follow head coaches directions or they get benched.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

But he was still right. What's worse is that Zorn was sober when he made those calls.

Posted by: clark202

Now that's some funny sh!t...

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 22, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

How about some of these players step up and make plays, so people will stop blaming Zorn for everything. Sellers and Thomas catch the touchdown passes and this wouldn't be a discussion.


Posted by: Redskins001

That's two freakin plays. What about the other calls in the Red Zone? We were playing one of the worst teams in the league at home! I don't what to hear about 2 dropped passes.

Posted by: dcwun | September 22, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't get the hate on Sonny, its football not church. You are allowed to have opinions, ask tough questions, second guess....thats what the multi billion dollar sports entertainment business model is built on.

Also if i am picking sides, i am lining up with lifelong skin sonny, not corny zorny and his maroon & black crap. jeesh.

i hope zorn proves everyone, including me, wrong. dont think he will, but hope so.

Also bmcattack, that "sucubus jew" was way outta line...wow

Posted by: chrislarry | September 22, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Jurgenson was drunk and his colostomy bag was full.

Go Zorn!

Posted by: rickyroge | September 22, 2009 8:57 PM |
========================================

Ricky, don't be a zero.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 22, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Also bmcattack, that "sucubus jew" was way outta line...wow

Posted by: chrislarry | September 22, 2009 9:16 PM |

You've gotta consider the source.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 22, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

No matter what we do next week, all you so called fans are going to be back here b!tching an complaining that the sky is falling.

Posted by: daimon_junk
________________________

Not true, if the Skins perform at least competently, which they haven't (more specifically, the offense hasn't) in the first 2 games and is all that many of the "complainers" on here want to see. Nobody's asking for 16-0, we're asking for competence.

The people that imply we should all be singing HTTR over & over again regardless of what happens and what can be projected already based on the last several games (not just the last 2) are just tards... useless lemmings.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 22, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 22, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Jason Reid, you missed one important bad call in your "What I think; the Zorn installment" article. With 2:20 left in the fourth quarter and the Rams with no timeouts, the Skins on second and 6 at the Rams' 7 yard line called an end run by Betts. He went out of bounds and stopped the clock with 2:13 left in the game. The next play (3rd and 3) did not make a first down and went to the 2 minute warning, which stopped the clock. On fourth down, the Skins did not make a first down and turned the ball over with 1:55 left in the game. Under those circumstances, who would call an end run so that the runner could go out of bounds and stop the clock? If Betts had gone up the middle or off tackle, the clock would have stopped at 2 minutes with third and fourth down to go. A run on third down would have used up at least 45 seconds and a run on fourth down would have used up another five seconds, leaving the Rams with only 1:10 left in the game (assuming no first down was made). I would rather have left the Rams with only 1:10 left instead of 1:55 in the game. Just another bad call and misuse of the clock by Zorn.

Also, why do the Skins receivers never look like they are open, while when I watch other teams, their receivers seem to be wide open? Could it be the Skins receivers are not well coached?

Posted by: ezman | September 22, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened:
Zorn got hired as OC for the Redskins, his first coordinator job. Before he blocked out his first offensive play, he got hired as head coach.

What I think:
Zorn thinks he arrived, on the merits of having done NOTHING.

Of course he thinks whatever he says and does -- or doesn't say or doesn't do -- is correct. It must be, he's a head coach because that was what he was hired to do.

What it means:
He is right "up there" with Deion Sanders, Adam Archuletta and Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: Xlnt | September 22, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

I missed a lot today.

So Jim Zorn tried to carry Sonny Jurgensen?

An all-time great 'skins QB, f that, an all-time NFL QB calls out Zorn and his play-calling, and people are actually siding with f***ing JIM ZORN!

Never ceases to amaze me how far will people go to carry the "I'm right" flag.

What the hell has Jim Zorn done in this league. Jurgensen has forgotten more about football than Zorn can ever learn. 'Cause in his day the QB called the plays, not some corny, arrogant hack HC trying to be a genius.

What's funny is the same people who are siding with Zorn, are the same bamas who are always talking about "how fake 'so-called' fans are", and how they've been following the 'skins for how ever many years.

But yet, a classic QB that donned the burgundy and gold comes out and makes logical criticism of Jim Zorn, and most of them side with Zorn.

smh..ufb...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 22, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Addendum. O line shallowness is obvious.

From stat man Boswell yesterday, " One of the critical ways to measure an NFL quarterback is his percentage of touchdown passes. In all eras, from Sammy Baugh (6.2 percent of his passes were touchdowns) to the present, the great passers know how to finish a drive. A typical touchdown percentage for a star is between 4.5 percent and 6 percent. Below 4 percent is poor. Zorn himself, as well as ex-Redskins coach Steve Spurrier, were only at 3.5 percent.

Out of all the 219 passers in NFL history who have thrown at least 900 passes, Campbell ranks in a five-way tie for 201st at 3.1 percent. Only 14 quarterbacks, all nonentities, rank lower. " Todd Collins career % is 3.4 on 651 attempts; 4.8 in 2007. This is the elephant in the room. Funny how Saunders' O worked when Collins played as it probably would w/ Zorn's. Spare me the career backup stuff because Soupy will probably be a backup for the rest of his career after this season (like his clone Kyle Boller). DC needs a right now guy. There are older QB's that have won Super Bowls so give the ageism a rest too. Soup is better in the gun, but the run game becomes limited in it. Still can't read the D quick enough and I've sadly watched him since 2003. Cooley and Davis lined up side by side on at least three plays on Sunday, down the hash marks for at least one huge gain (Davis) and the ball went somewhere else. Big Ben can read a D, move in the pocket and make winning plays. Please stop making excuses for an average (at best) QB that never has consistently shown these traits from 2003 to the present day. Sonny was better than Billy, as was Theismann. Doug was better than Jay; Stan was better than Ryp, although DC won a ring with him. As most fans, I do not care what the DC QB looks like but want them to win by as much as possible ASAP. Collins is better than Soup. Prepare a QB for when he's done winning for DC.

HTTR

Posted by: Realness1 | September 22, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Here's what happened;

When the National media does not pick you to do anything, and you have been guaranteed loads of money whether you win or lose, your focus sort of "wanders" as a player. Thats why good teams seek out coaches with a reputation for toughness and a systematic approach to winning, because that puts the leverage to deliver back on the players. If a player can't win or perform with the Patriots, it must be a player flaw, if they can't win with Parcels or Gibbs, they might be cut, but, on the other hand if they can't win with the skins, its the owners fault, the "never been a head coach Zorn's" fault, etc. etc. If you are player and the owner lets everyone know he will just shuffle the deck every other season, the onus is not on you to perform, its instead a case of shifting the responsibility and the blame.

SO as players the modus operandi becomes, well lets collect our money and play our own individual game, avoid practice, etc. If you are in a contract year, like Los, you avoid pre-season and try a little harder in games. But most of the high priced veterns, example Jason Taylor, do poorly here, and then looked effective and motivated in Miami (even post skins). Jason Taylor himself played the skins organization just as the Miami management fleeced a second round pick from Vinny.

The skins own players, free agents around the league and the other teams have all the leverage against the skins, because there is no competent football manager with anything at stake making logical decisions. If there were a logical person on the skins broken management team, they certainly would have stocked up on Offensive Line talent long before now.

Posted by: DownTownClown | September 22, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

4th and less than 1 yard. How can anyone conceive that the "Best" way to gain less than a yard is to run 5-yards left/right@^$%

Get to the line, put hands under Center, hike the ball, and 6-5 QB stretches for half yard!!!!

If Colts can go over 50 yards and score within 32 seconds with Rookies, how is it that this team cannot go over 10 yards to score 2nd year players?

Poor coaching and Poor play calling.

Posted by: bjbmusa | September 22, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

But yet, a classic QB that donned the burgundy and gold comes out and makes logical criticism of Jim Zorn, and most of them side with Zorn.

smh..ufb...

Posted by: RedDMV

If I'm not mistaken I believe you meant to say that Sonny wore the maroon and black.

Posted by: dcwun | September 22, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

And now for something completely different:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/laf/1383231304.html

Posted by: freakzilla | September 22, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

RED, it takes zero class, balls, or knowledge to talk about "how I would have run that play" (or not run it) hours after the game with hindsight. It's armchair quarterbacking no matter who it comes from.

Grandstanding, self serving, and disrespectful. And shameful for someone with his pedigree to stoop to dialogue of this nature in an attempt to upstage a current head coach based on sh!t that happend 40 years ago-- ANYONE can second guess after the fact. Sonny can disagree with the call, and I respect his opinion, it's the way he voiced it and the timing of it that rubs me the wrong way.

That said, the call in question also rubbed me the wrong way. Respectfully disagree with Zorn on that one.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | September 22, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

beepies

Posted by: RomoLongballs | September 22, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

This is another fight that Zorn can't win. I think he's pretty much backed off because of Portis's relationship with Snyder and the ridiculous amount of money he is guaranteed.
---------------------------------------------

I can't believe how Snyder can allow this to happen. By treating Portis differently and allowing him to disrespect Zorn he's undermining the team and setting up a toxic environment in the lockerroom.

Posted by: jiacinto | September 22, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Wow...people are bailing on Zorn already?! Good grief people....give the guy an honest chance. He's had 18 games. I really hope our Skins go into Detroit this week and crush them so it will shut you people up. Good grief. Hail?!!!

Posted by: Smiley2 | September 22, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Adrian Peterson clammored this year to play more in the preseason. He wanted to be up to speed for the regular season.

Clinton Portis has said publicly he hates to play in the preseason and that it is too long.

In two games,

AP - 272 yards rushing, 4 tds
CP - 141 yards rushing, 0 tds

Nuff said.

Posted by: crabbypatty1 | September 22, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Jason Reid,

You have followed in the footsteps of JLaF - when you attack Jim Zorn you only show your ignorance of the difficulty of being a head football coach in the NFL.

What amazes me about your attack on Zorn is that I can't think of a coach in the NFL who is as accommodating to reporters as Zorn, and yet you treat him this way.

What's wrong with the Redskins offense? The O-line is not in sync yet on run blocking or they simply don't have the physical push to make it happen. That's the bottom line.

If you don't call daring plays, you don't make big plays, and not every daring play one calls is going to work - there are people on the other side of ball trying to stop the play.

Get off Zorn's back.

Redskins fan from Louisville

Posted by: SkinsFan2111 | September 22, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

AP - 272 yards rushing, 4 tds
CP - 141 yards rushing, 0 tds

Nuff said.

Posted by: crabbypatty1 | September 22, 2009 10:35 PM |
==============================

13-9 = 4

But 7*4 = 28

Nuff said, rain man.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 22, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

So an inaccurate passer is throwing on the run. There is no misdirection. The defense is expecting a pass. And the passer would the need to thread the ball into a tight spot.
ZceZcest

-------

right on ZZ, the bigger problem is that Zorn does not recognize his mistakes.

if you know that you don't know, there is a chance you can improve
if you don't know that you don't know, there is no chance for improvement!!

God Help us and give some clarity to Xorn before it is too late

Posted by: Peaceful2009 | September 22, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

2 games into the season. Redskins are 1-1, and all these blogs about canning the coach,and talk of college QBs and coaches. You guys should get a life. and I'm sure that if the coach was fired the same bloggers would be complaining about lack of continuity. Shut up already!

Posted by: VegasJim | September 23, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

A fairly famous wide receiver once with the Oakland Raiders who then went on to the Bucs when Gruden needed a shlub to field punts, TIM BROWN, once said.." people in Tampa don't know diddly ( can't use the real word here ) about football. Well, he could have said that about Washington's fans as well. When Zorn was winning early last year, he was god. Now, he looses the opener to the best defense we may see this year and has a close game though a WIN to the Rams. Ease off ! This is not the same team as last year ( thank God ) and there is work to do no doubt. But how will we ever improve if you FANS get your way and we have another new coach, a new QB, a new lawn service company, etc next season. Your nuts.. Joe Gibbs came back out of retirement and couldn't win you a Super Bowl. Do you think Bill Cower can? He ain't coming here. I say, dance with the one that brung 'ya. It is the THIRD game of the year this week, and we are playing a team that hasn't won a game since the Grover Cleveland administration was in charge. Cut Zorn some slack you weenies.

Posted by: Blueslegend | September 23, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

A fairly famous wide receiver once with the Oakland Raiders who then went on to the Bucs when Gruden needed a shlub to field punts, TIM BROWN, once said.." people in Tampa don't know diddly ( can't use the real word here ) about football. Well, he could have said that about Washington's fans as well. When Zorn was winning early last year, he was god. Now, he looses the opener to the best defense we may see this year and has a close game though a WIN to the Rams. Ease off ! This is not the same team as last year ( thank God ) and there is work to do no doubt. But how will we ever improve if you FANS get your way and we have another new coach, a new QB, a new lawn service company, etc next season. Your nuts.. Joe Gibbs came back out of retirement and couldn't win you a Super Bowl. Do you think Bill Cower can? He ain't coming here. I say, dance with the one that brung 'ya. It is the THIRD game of the year this week, and we are playing a team that hasn't won a game since the Grover Cleveland administration was in charge. Cut Zorn some slack you weenies.

Posted by: Blueslegend

Well said, Blueslegend. I used to think Washington Redskins fans were intelligent until I saw the posts on Redskins Insider.

Posted by: tas73 | September 23, 2009 5:44 AM | Report abuse

ugh...enough of this. Does Zorn have some flaws of a inexperienced head coach? Of course! Did no one expect this when he was hired? If not, you need your heads examined. I'm tired of change and turn over and the circus atmosphere surrounding this club. For once, can we let someone try to grow into the job? I've seen enough of Jim Zorn to see enough that I like. I think he can continue to improve and be very effective, if given the time. Let's take our hands off the panic button and let things play out. Sheeesh. So you want a new coach? ANOTHER roster turn over and another year or two for them to get used to his scheme before we realize it doesn't work? Come on people, this guy may be green, but he has shown some things. Let him grow into this job and lets for once have a little stability around here. ugh...

Posted by: apbaintl | September 23, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

The issue with Jurgensen isn't whether the Portis pass was a good call or a horrible one. The question was, what happens under those game circumstances if the coach sends in a play that the QB rejects for the reason Jurg stated, "that's what I {the QB] get paid for [to pass]."

So this isn't about QBing or even play calling at all. It's about who's in charge. If Jurg thinks it's OK for the QB to challenge the head coach in those circumstances, he's dead wrong. And Zorn's immediate response, "I'd bench him", is entirely correct.

Posted by: laboo | September 23, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Haters wake up and get some common sense there is no way we lose to the sorry azz Lions I don't care how inept our offense is. We will win this game by any means necessary , we will win ugly like the Ravens used to do with only defense.

I predict this is the game where our offense wakes up and some of the young guys step up. CP and Moss will have big games along with Randel-EL , Cooley , and Devin Thomas.

Haynesworth should be able to provide insight to the offense of how Schwartz defense operates since he was the d-coordinator ofr the Titans during Haynesworths tenure

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | September 23, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Wow! This might be your best installment of What I think! Good Work.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | September 23, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Wow! This might be your best installment of What I think! Good Work.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | September 23, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

You know all this would have been solved if after Gibbs left Snyder made Gregg Williams HC.. kept Saunders OC.. made Collins starting QB (the Skins did win 4 games in a row under him and haven't looked as good since) and traded JC, when he was worth something, for a high draft pick maybe even a real good OL man (like when the Skins traded Schroeder for Lachey back in the day).. Instead we are were we are...

Posted by: sovine08 | September 23, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not ready to can Zorn yet. Geez, we're talking about clock management and red zone play calling. Can't he just fix these areas of his job? Players go in every week and work on the stuff they screwed up why wouldn't we expect the same from him? He's doing a lot of stuff right. We're moving the ball well between the 20s. All he has to do is learn to finish a drive. Just get him a red zone offense for dummies book and we'll go 12-4."

__________________________

Exactly. Everyone take a chill pill. We had 362 yards offense, 21 first downs and over 125 yard rushing. We had two touchdown passes dropped; with those catches, the final score should have been AT LEAST 17-7. We took several shots down field which no doubt helped open the middle for Cooley's huge game.

THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

I agree, in the red zone, I hated the two running plays and then the half back option pass on third down...a terrible series. And everyone knows Zorn needs to improve his clock management skills. But that doesn't happen over night. That's a result of experience. Give him the season and see what happens. If Snyder didn't expect growing pains in the first couple seasons, he should not have hired a QB coach with no OC or HC experience as the skins HC. In addition, he needs to let the man coach the team and stop giving special treatment to his favorites (i.e. Portis). No coach can overcome an owner or GM who is meddlesome and compromises his authority. It's the same thing that happened with Norv when Snyder gave him a tongue lashing immediately following a game when he first bought the team. Norv lost his locker room that day and it was SNYDER'S fault!

Bottom line--our offense is fine, Campbell is solid, and the receiving corp looks like a huge improvement over last year. If our defense does what it was built to do and we fix our red zone woes (which are correctable), our team should rack up plenty of wins and at least grab a wild card. If it doesn't, then it may be time to move on without Zorn. But give him the season and let him grow up. If he fails, Snyder and Vinny failed as well.

Posted by: scottland7 | September 23, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"So this isn't about QBing or even play calling at all. It's about who's in charge. If Jurg thinks it's OK for the QB to challenge the head coach in those circumstances, he's dead wrong. And Zorn's immediate response, "I'd bench him", is entirely correct."

Posted by: laboo | September 23, 2009 9:04 AM

____________________

Took the words right out of my mouth. Love Jurgenson, but he was wrong to suggest Campbell should have called time out or audibled out. It's the coach's job to call plays and the QBs job to execute, not question the play call. It's obvious Sonny's close to Snyder because he seems to have the same philosophy...it's okay to undermine your coach. And you see how far that's gotten us.

And frankly, I'm glad Zorn snapped back because you know what, he was RIGHT! And that's the fight I want out of my leader. If I'm the coach you had BETTER run the play I call.

Posted by: scottland7 | September 23, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

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