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Zorn: 'Bar Is Set Very High'

The New York Giants went 12-4 last season, won the NFC East and are widely considered to be one of the league's top two or three teams this season. I know the Redskins did not play well in their 23-17 loss in Week 1 at Giants Stadium, but the despair many fans have expressed on the Insider, Internet message boards and sports-talk radio seems a tad premature to me. The reality is it was highly unlikely the Redskins, who've lost seven of eight against their division rivals, would win at Giants Stadium. And it's not as if they opened against a team that went winless last season.

A lot of fans are disappointed with ownership, disappointed with Coach Jim Zorn, disappointed with quarterback Jason Campbell, disappointed with, well, everything. I get it. Really, I do. And after last-season's late collapse, some skepticism is understandable. But is just seems many of you have forgotten there are 15 games remaining in the regular season. Fifteen. If the Redskins are horrible this season, we'll write about what went wrong and why. I just don't understand being a fan of a team and giving up after the first game.

"We live in an area that everybody loves the Redskins," Zorn said Wednesday after practice. "Everybody creates an importance for the Redskins. So, I'm not surprised [about the fans' high expectations]. I think there's a high expectation. The bar is set very high in this community."

()()()

Thomas Boswell is up at 11 with a chat. Ask him about the season opener, the Rams, his most recent column...anything you want.

()()()

Rick Maese writes that the Redskins' success correlates to Clinton Portis's, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's clamoring for more touches.

By Jason Reid  |  September 17, 2009; 6:30 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Predict the Rams-Redskins Outcome

Comments

First?

HTTR

Posted by: abtassler | September 17, 2009 6:37 AM | Report abuse

First to say I saw the SAME old Redskins...

Posted by: WRBD | September 17, 2009 6:37 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Reid,

What it boils down to is this:

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, and 2009, shame on Dan Snyder.

Posted by: wahoo2x | September 17, 2009 6:40 AM | Report abuse

The O has so many problems that blaming just JC or JZ is naive. Cooley won't run away from anyone. Moss is slower as is CP. ARE did look better in the slot, but he didn't run away from anyone either, was caught from behind. Betts, molasses comes to mind, DT, MK, and MM are unknown as thay can't seem to get a ball thrown to them or get on the field. Team speed is pathetically slow. JC must learn to throw into tight coverage, it is that way in the big boy league. JZ must know he has to adapt his system or he's gone. The end result of all this is another year of mediocrity for us fans.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 17, 2009 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Cooley won't run away from anyone. Moss is slower as is CP. ARE did look better in the slot, but he didn't run away from anyone either, was caught from behind. Betts, molasses comes to mind, DT, MK, and MM are unknown as thay can't seem to get a ball thrown to them or get on the field. Team speed is pathetically slow.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 17, 2009 6:37 AM


Dude, what are you even talking about? Moss slow? That's ridiculous. Even still, the fastest guys doesn't equate to the best. I'll take a guy that can get open over a guy that runs a 4.2 40 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. By your logic, Darrius Heyward-Bey is better than Marques Colston and we both know that's not true.

This team needs a steady and dependable line. Then go from there.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 6:51 AM | Report abuse

Some Redskins fans are so "dang" fickle. The team didn't look great against the Giants, but they weren't absolutely horrible either like some of you all are making them out to be.

On offense, I would've liked to see more shots taken downfield, but they weren't on the field long enough to do so. I wonder if MK12 was unable to gain any separation, that's why Campbell didn't look his way all game. Same goes for DT11. The reverse option for Randle-El was a questionable play call, but if it worked out or Randle-El threw the ball away, we'd all be singing a different tune. Campbell made 2 notable mistakes in the game; changing to the running play on 3rd & 8 (and giving us the lame excuse that he didn't know the distance for a 1st down, come on bro)and the interception after passing the line of scrimmage by 3 or 4 yards.

The defense took a bend don't break mentality. I would've liked to see them attack more and have the corners play closer to the Giants receivers (way too much cushion given to the young receivers). I always feel like the defense makes certain players on other teams look like all-stars, when they're not (i.e. Eli Manning, Brandon Jacobs & Mario Manningham).

I liked the fake field goal call by Zorn & Danny Smith to try to take some momentum from the Giants going into the 2nd half.

Let's look at this game from a different perspective. This game could've been A LOT worse if the Giants scored touchdowns instead of settling for field goals. The Skins hung in there long enough to make it a competitive game. Let's give these guys some more time before we write them off this season.

Posted by: JinxMan | September 17, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

And Mr. Mayor, if I might, let's put this thing in perspective. The Redskins have "the bar set very high" because that's where they put it. When you get big name players and spend big time money, expectations come along with that. If you're popping off about making the playoffs and how good and dominant your defense is gonna be with Haynesworth and how much better your offense is gonna be with all those 2nd round pass catchers, you're expected to deliver. So let's not make it sound like Skins fans have this stratospheric and unreasonable expectation from them. That's called holding you accountable to your word.

Plus, organizations tend to set the tone for their fanbase. For example, Steelers fans don't go nuts when guys like Langston Walker or Derrick Dockery or Mark Tauscher hit the free agent market because their team doesn't go after free agents. They use the draft to fill their needs, and that why those fans pay attention the draft. March 1st is just another day for them. Here, Skins fans pore over the transactions page because our next starter at RT might be out there. And the likelihood is that is true. Come draft day, we'll tune in to see what everyone else is doing because we've only got a couple picks of our own.

So don't get on the fans for thinking "the sky is falling". The fans are being led to believe that's the case when the team is frantically trying to replace the QB and putting the rookie HC on notice after an 8-8 season.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 7:05 AM | Report abuse

Let's look at this game from a different perspective. This game could've been A LOT worse if the Giants scored touchdowns instead of settling for field goals. The Skins hung in there long enough to make it a competitive game. Let's give these guys some more time before we write them off this season.

Posted by: JinxMan | September 17, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I agree, JinxMan. What you are hearing is "the squeaky wheel" of complaints from the fans. Some of it is certainly legitimate, following on the 2-6 second half of last season. But the OL had completely broken down by then. So I think we have to give this team and these coaches a chance to show that things have improved. Our schedule is very friendly for the next two months, so we will be in a much better position to assess this team at the mid-season point. Let's not write off the season yet.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 7:11 AM | Report abuse

No, Coach, the bar isn't set too high. All most fans in any town expect is for the home team to beat their division rivals (at least most of the time), win the games they're supposed to win against the league patsies, and break even or better with the rest of the games. That formula, when applied consistently, will get you into the playoffs most years. Of course, given his record to date, Coach Zorn wouldn't know much about any of that.

Posted by: Vic1 | September 17, 2009 7:18 AM | Report abuse

So don't get on the fans for thinking "the sky is falling". The fans are being led to believe that's the case when the team is frantically trying to replace the QB and putting the rookie HC on notice after an 8-8 season.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 7:05 AM | Report abuse
I think those are very realistic comments, brownwood26. We should have high expectations, and I do. But my high expectations are that we win 10 games and make the playoffs. I think this team is capable of that.

I think the Mayor is responding to some of the wild comments about CP and JC being worthless, or FIRE J ZORN before we see what the coaching staff is able to accomplish. I admit that I am not sold on the abilities of the offensive coaching staff to adjust game plans to different opponents. But I will reserve judgment until I see more of the season.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 7:19 AM | Report abuse

I think the Mayor is responding to some of the wild comments about CP and JC being worthless, or FIRE J ZORN before we see what the coaching staff is able to accomplish. I admit that I am not sold on the abilities of the offensive coaching staff to adjust game plans to different opponents. But I will reserve judgment until I see more of the season.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 7:19 AM


Agreed. But I knew from Day 1 Zorn wasn't gonna work out, it seldom does when you hire a guy who is like your 5th choice for the job. If you made the right hire, it's usually apparent pretty soon. If we're just trying to get this guy to show us he's a competent coach, much less a good one, he's already done.

He'll coach out the rest of the season because there's isn't a better option. But let this team lose to Detroit, and we could see Snyder's quick hook for a 2nd time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't agree more Jason, thank you.

Posted by: craig2 | September 17, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

The problem Mr Mayor is that Sunday suggested that the team has made little or no progress since last season. In the first game of 2008 we trailed the Giants early by 16-0, this year it was 17-0. We still look unprepared, we still are making bonehead plays that other teams don't seem to make, the offense is still struggling to move the ball, the young WRs are still not getting in the game, the defense is still not getting off the field on 3rd down and are still not getting any consistent pressure on the opposing QB.

Now of course it's only one game but you're talking here about a fanbase that has been starved of success lately and who has seen their team make massive financial investment in playing staff and the early signs suggest we aren't moving forward. You expect us to be relaxed about that?? Come on Mr Mayor!

Posted by: tartanskin | September 17, 2009 7:41 AM | Report abuse

The defense looks worse from last year and the offense looks the same, i.e, pathetic. No improvement at all over last season....this is why I am giving up on the season....unless they improve

Posted by: ajeshp | September 17, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

Earth to Mr. Reid:

I don't actually think you "get it."

I and other fans are disappointed at the prospect of watching last season play out again. After watching this season's Giants game in which the Giants dominated the game until the last 2 minutes (when they apparently went into a prevent defense), it feels a lot like last season's opener at the Meadowlands. Few predicted a win, but all wanted to see a tough fight where the Redskins were at least in the game. I don't know about you, but I for one did NOT see that.

So it goes, another mediocre season. That's the frustration, Mr. Reid.

Get it now?

Posted by: hithere1 | September 17, 2009 7:47 AM | Report abuse

What a candy-assed column....boy-o-boy-o-boy: comments like "oh my, the fans have set the bar too high" smack of an alarmingly high degree of comfort with perpetually being an average 6--10 to 8--8 team at best........screw that. As everyone astutely points out, we need to re-org at the top---Synder needs to be a hands-off owner (See Patriots\Steelers\Giants\Ravens\Colts\Packers (wouldn't it be great of MD\Wash\VA BOUGHT THE TEAM FROM DAN and owneed it like Green Bay?).......w\a savvy, seasoned, smart GM and a highly trained and paid scouting team, some time to let them do their thing, 'skins could be in that list--which they were in the 80's w JKC & BobbyB........so yea, we've had it and every year we go into a season like this w a patchwork of overpaid FA's and little young depth, is another year to wait before a 2--4 year process via the classic tried & true method of building through exceptional scouting and drafting, w only a dab of FA activity.......

that's why we're pissed and fed up........any questions?

Posted by: tabtool | September 17, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

this is why I am giving up on the season....unless they improve

Posted by: ajeshp | September 17, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse
Well, ajeshp, that doesn't sound like you are giving up. Sounds like a "wait and see" comment, which is where most of us are. Let's hope that the team is solid against the weaker teams, and competitive with the stronger teams. Let's win at home, and pick up some road W's as well, and we can still make the playoffs.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Its time to put up... or shut up.

Call a pass heavy game. Take several shots down field.

Let's truly see what Jason Campbell can do, if unleashed!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | September 17, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Jason is spot on. They lost one game on the road to a team that is just better than they are right now... that doesn't mean this team can't finish 10-6 make the playoffs and then see what happens from there. I have been a die-hard skins fan my entire life (and I'm not young)...I get the sense that this team IS improving...there are still clear personnel deficiencies (I am one who believes QB is not one of them)...but we (Redskins fans) have a good football team...everyone should just chill.

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | September 17, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

(wouldn't it be great of MD\Wash\VA BOUGHT THE TEAM FROM DAN and owneed it like Green Bay?).......w\a savvy, seasoned, smart GM and a highly trained and paid scouting team, some time to let them do their thing, 'skins could be in that list--which they were in the 80's w JKC & BobbyB........so yea, we've had it and every year we go into a season like this w a patchwork of overpaid FA's and little young depth, is another year to wait before a 2--4 year process via the classic tried & true method of building through exceptional scouting and drafting, w only a dab of FA activity.......

that's why we're pissed and fed up........any questions?

Posted by: tabtool | September 17, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

tabtool, we all know Snyder will not sell the team. The rest of your suggestion, the "tried-and-true" method, takes 2-4 years to develop. I'm not a front office apologist, but there have been some changes made that we need to give them time to develop. First of all, VC hired Morocco Brown to assist in player development, and that seems to be working out. DS and VC seem to realize the importance of signing younger FA's... AH(28), DH(25), DD(just turned 29). Drafting Osacko (23) to replace MW, JJ (21) to replace JT. Let's not be so defeatist after playing a team expected to be in the top 5 of the league.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Let's win at home, and pick up some road W's as well, and we can still make the playoffs.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 7:59 AM


Playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we win another game!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOnDrM

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Every word you wrote is true, but you'll never convince the above hysterical fans, who if they really owned the team (as one fan suggested) would run it just like the Raiders.

Posted by: Jason10 | September 17, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

you know, YOU KNOW its gonna be a good day here on the blog.....cuz guzu's back.....hooray!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I love my Redskins, but I am one of them that is hard on them this first game out the gate.

The opening act appears to be the same as we have seen before. But, lets hope it was because the Giants are that good.

However, at the same time, if the Giants are that good, and we looked terrible in a game that we still could have won if we played better, then what kept us from competing better?

It is all good to lose to a damn good football team, but it is not good to play below your expectations.

You still must compete, for to lose by not showing up is the difference between winners and losers.

What I saw on Sunday was a Redskin Team that looked like the one last year that went 2 and 6 to finish the season.

It is not that we lost to the Giants, it is how we lost.

I love these Redskins, but I will not sugarcoat the loss to the Giants just because it is the first game of the season.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 17, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

nice job Larry, no mention of which players were out of shape according to you....I'm impressed...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

"...High Risk, High Reward..."


Welcome aboard, Mr. Boswell.

We'll stop the "Hope the Redskins Open-up the Offense Express" at the bar that's been set very high to thank you for endorsing the obvious.

When the Express took off last spring, various bloggas shouted, "Spurrier...!" and "Just Say No to the Fun 'n Gun!"

But you, Mr. Boswell, have seen what Moe has seen for some time: the days of the riggo drill are over.

Three big fast wide receivers are more important in today's NFL than a stud running back.

The NFL is a passing league which is why our hope is that the redskins decide to open up the offense.

The Express will roll on....maybe mayorreid will decide to jump on board next.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 17, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Let's not be so defeatist after playing a team expected to be in the top 5 of the league.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 8:11 AM


It's not about that, it's about YOUR mistakes beating you instead of your opponent. If the Giants brought their A-game and we came up a bit short, I could live with that. They played down to our level and still won. THAT'S what pisses me off.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

"so yea, we've had it and every year we go into a season like this w a patchwork of overpaid FA's and little young depth..."

Truth. The lack of depth is what killed this team last year. I'm all about drafting and staying quiet in FA, but you need quality people making the picks. So I'm taking the wait-and-see approach to these draft classes, hoping that they succeed and prevent Snyder from continuing his FA fetish. Writing off rookies after just 1-2 years is just as bad as giving up on the season after this game against NY.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | September 17, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Plus, organizations tend to set the tone for their fanbase. For example, Steelers fans don't go nuts when guys like Langston Walker or Derrick Dockery or Mark Tauscher hit the free agent market because their team doesn't go after free agents. They use the draft to fill their needs

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 7:05 AM |

Just to be clear, the Redskins have more "home grown" players on their opening day roster than the Patriots, the Ginas, and the Steelers. Those 3 teams have more free agents than us.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

And another thing, JR, comments like, its the first game, we made mistakes, we did not do this or that, or we just missed, we are that close, are the same comments that we have heard before.

So, JR, if we don't start hearing some different comments about and from my Redskins, we will be 2 and 6 before you know it.

Jim Zorn, I thought might be a kinda Liberal Coach, but excuse my pun, So far he is turning out to be a tab to darn Conservative.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 17, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

As far as J.R.'s statement about not giving up on the team after one game he's both right and wrong. It's straight tard to say the sky is falling after 1 game. The problem is the sky fell years ago...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

I don't see how 'unleashing' Campbell makes any sense. His problem is that he's not suited to the offense and doesn't make quick interpretive decisions.

If he sees an opening in a route he is monitoring, he can take it. But he's not going to see anything that isn't already on his radar. He doesn't pick up the coverage.

And I don't see anything wrong with indicting the current staff when they come out as crappy as they did against this team. With the sunshine they were blowing up our butts in the off/preseason, this was supposed to be a marked improvement upon last year. Instead it's more of the same. Please excuse the fans for being so improper as to demand progress.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Brownwood, althoug I am correct about number of home grown players on the team, we have one of the fewest numbers of home grown starters in the league while the Steelers have one of the most:

Top five: Indianapolis Colts 17, Baltimore Ravens 16, Green Bay Packers 16, Pittsburgh Steelers 15, Buffalo Bills 15.

Bottom five: Washington Redskins 9, Denver Broncos 9, Cleveland Browns 9, Detroit Lions 10, Oakland Raiders 10.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

ds, I think its more a case of unleashing the passing game, than unleashing JC. Unless this team gets the passing game going, and its a viable threat, then this season is gonna play out EXACTLY like last year.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Mornin All

About Zorns last thing on Shotgun. Jason is comfortable.

On the other hand, you can't operate in the 'gun exclusively and run a West Coast offense. Even a modified West Coast offense, Zorn said.

This is why Christians don't work as coaches anymore, they are just too ridged to a system of beliefs and unlike in the 80's people are not. If it feels good do it, if it works keep working it. You have to adjust to the rest of the players not make them adjust to you. If JC17 has more success throwing from shotgun, guess what, your team has more success overall.

PS, this is also why China has been slowly but surely kicking our butts for the past few years.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Nice Bean. I was waiting for the speech on two-a-days as well.

Posted by: mack1 | September 17, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Samuels, Dock, Heyer, Kelly, Cooley, Rogers, Orakpo, Landry, Horton, Rocky Mac, Campbell...am I missing someone??

Seems like 11 to me....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

I jsut looked a little closer and that number (9) is incorrect. It's actually 10 and rises to 11 if you count Heyer which wasn't drafted.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Uh Mr. Mayor? You said yourself the team has lost seven of the last eight to division rivals. From where I am sitting, that kind of history equates to a Redskin-less playoff picture. You can't go to the playoffs if you cannot beat someone in your division... The Giants were beat up in the secondary and the team could not take advantage. Our defense was supposed to get to the QB more this season and we left with one sack. Jason Campbell looked as bewildered this year as he did last year. There's not a lot left to be optimistic about. Yes, the Giants are a good team, but the Redskins will have to beat good teams - especially in their division.

And, I'm not pulling the plug on the season; however, there's no reason to expect the play-calling to get any better throughout the season. We've got the last eight regular season games to use an example. This fan is going nowhere. I've been through worse. I will root for the Redskins week in and week out. I just think it is a shame the product on the field is not worthy of the fans who, like me, have been there through thick and thin.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

BTG1...we're on the same page.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Brownwood, althoug I am correct about number of home grown players on the team, we have one of the fewest numbers of home grown starters in the league while the Steelers have one of the most:

Top five: Indianapolis Colts 17, Baltimore Ravens 16, Green Bay Packers 16, Pittsburgh Steelers 15, Buffalo Bills 15.

Bottom five: Washington Redskins 9, Denver Broncos 9, Cleveland Browns 9, Detroit Lions 10, Oakland Raiders 10.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:35 AM


Thank you for correcting that...saved me the research.

The difference is the Redskins get FAs to start for them and use undrafted rookies/late round picks to fill out their depth chart. The Steelers and Ravens and Colts draft their starters and use mid-level FAs to fill out their depth chart.

And if you look at the lists above, which company would you rather keep?

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

This is why Christians don't work as coaches anymore

Wow....nice job Al....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Uh Mr. Mayor? You said yourself the team has lost seven of the last eight to division rivals.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM |

Really? Didn't we beat Dallas once last year and the Eagles both games? That # doesn't add up...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

This is why Christians don't work as coaches anymore, they are just too ridged to a system of beliefs and unlike in the 80's people are not. If it feels good do it, if it works keep working it. You have to adjust to the rest of the players not make them adjust to you. If JC17 has more success throwing from shotgun, guess what, your team has more success overall.

PS, this is also why China has been slowly but surely kicking our butts for the past few years.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:37 AM |

You are an absolute moron...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Mike Tomlin Discusses His Christian Faith
01/30/2009
Pittsburgh Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin discussed his faith when talking to the media in the week leading up to Super Bowl XVIII.

Tomlin said he relationship with Jesus Christ is the most important thing in his life. He said he admires former Indianapolis Colts Head Coach Tony Dungy for his devoted life. Tomlin said he attends Allegheny Center Alliance Church in Pittsburgh.

Faith-driven athletes and coaches will be present on both sidelines. Tomlin’s Steelers are playing Sunday against the Arizona Cardinals, who are led on the field by devout Christian quarterback Kurt Warner.

http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/hotnews/mike-tomlin-discusses-his-christian-faith.html

That was difficult to research.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Jason,
To tell you the truth, I don't believe a lot of these people really are Redskins fans. You see comments about the draft.... in 2010!! After one game!!!

And everytime the team loses you hear the same tired old comment.... "Well it comes down to ownership" Especially on the radio where you have 2 stations competing for the who can be most critical award......

Posted by: punchdaclock | September 17, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

This is why Christians don't work as coaches anymore, they are just too ridged to a system of beliefs and unlike in the 80's people are not.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:37 AM


Dude, really? You've usually got your head on straight but this statement makes me think it's up your @ss. Please tell me you just worded that wrong...

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

1, if you dont get sarcasm the word still is, suckers.
2, I stand by my statement on rigidity = fail.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Uh Mr. Mayor? You said yourself the team has lost seven of the last eight to division rivals.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM |

Really? Didn't we beat Dallas once last year and the Eagles both games? That # doesn't add up...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:43 AM


That should read "seven of eight to THEIR division rivals"...meaning just 7 of 8 to the Ginas.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

That should read "seven of eight to THEIR division rivals"...meaning just 7 of 8 to the Ginas.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:50 AM

Gotcha

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

brown, I concur. I don't care what the final score is, you can tell whether a team game-planned well and did their best to execute it out on the field. But it's these critical errors--from coaching and players--that continue to haunt this franchise. We saw it last Sunday as clearly as throughout last season, and earlier. The team can't get out of its own way. This is a clear indicator that discipline is lacking.

Posted by: pgugino | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Good Alex, I thought you lost it for a minute. In that case, agreed on the "rigid = fail" statement.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Dec 17, 2007 last time I found we beat the giants.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh man, Reid, Zorn, Campbell you guys are all in for a rude awakening come Monday. You think it's bad around here NOW?

Unless you guys completely blow the Rams out of the water this weekend, which we all know you won't do because the Redskins are the only NFL team incapable of A) blow-outs or B)shut-outs, the fever pitch of angry fans will reach epic proportions.

If I had to guess right now, I would say they probably squeak out a VERY unconvincing win (if lucky) and we are right back to where we started.

I'd almost rather see them lose again just to sit back and savor all the delicious hate that will be spewing from all directions.

I honestly and truly believe the players and coaches are not nearly as pained by the losses as us fans. Until they begin to feel that pain and overwhelming sense of urgent frustration, there's just not much reason to expect a turnaround.

Posted by: McMetal | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Nah, Alex is like that. s'all good.

But the Chinese are beating us because they're NOT rigid?! Are u SJK'n kidding me?!

They live at their jobs!!! They sell their kids off to indentured servitude. That's pretty rigid to me...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure about the whole rigid statement. Tomlin, Belicheat, and Coughlin seem like pretty rigid system guys to me. I may be wrong though, I don't follow those teams too closely.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Dec 17, 2007 last time I found we beat the giants.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 8:52 AM |

So then 7 out of 8 doesn't fit there either.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I miss jasno! This dude sucks!

Posted by: dealer1 | September 17, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't think "rigid" is the preferable adjective to define Zorn. "Soft"?

Posted by: pgugino | September 17, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Uh Mr. Mayor? You said yourself the team has lost seven of the last eight to division rivals.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM |

Really? Didn't we beat Dallas once last year and the Eagles both games? That #
doesn't add up...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:43 AM

ost seven of the last eight to division rivals...(The New York Giants)

Posted by: TWISI | September 17, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse


Uh Mr. Mayor? You said yourself the team has lost seven of the last eight to division rivals.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 8:40 AM |

Really? Didn't we beat Dallas once last year and the Eagles both games? That #
doesn't add up...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:43 AM

ost seven of the last eight to division rivals...(The New York Giants)

Posted by: TWISI | September 17, 2009 9:01 AM |

Late to the party...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Dik,
Thats why they are now a capitalist thing today, were commies 25 years ago. Very ends justify means if you ask me. They are the half time adjusters of politics.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't think "rigid" is the preferable adjective to define Zorn. "Soft"?

Posted by: pgugino | September 17, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Well I think both are correct here.

He is rigid in his philosophy of West Coast West Coast West Coast West Coast West Coast . And Soft in his game calling of Run Run Pass Punt Run Run Pass Punt Run Run Pass Punt Run Run Pass Punt Run Run Pass Punt

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

"Set the bar very high"? Silly fans. Expecting your team to win a game is just absolutely ridiculous. Is there a football team in the NFL who doesn't enter the season with the goal of winning the Super Bowl? Can a fan set the bar any higher than that?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Is there a football team in the NFL who doesn't enter the season with the goal of winning the Super Bowl? Can a fan set the bar any higher than that?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 9:06 AM

I think the Lions have the goal of just winning a game.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

lost seven of the last eight to division rivals...(The New York Giants)

Posted by: TWISI

Really? The Giants are our division rivals? If you ask me, our "division rivals" refers either to all three of them, or if it's only one, then it's the Cowboys not the giants.

Posted by: rexforab | September 17, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

scampbell1975,
True. Very true. They're so bad they took our offensive line castoff...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure about the whole rigid statement. Tomlin, Belicheat, and Coughlin seem like pretty rigid system guys to me. I may be wrong though, I don't follow those teams too closely.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:54 AM


I posted this earlier: Tomlin is a Tampa-2 guy and didn't change the 3-4 system in Pittsburgh because it works. Kept a lot of Cowher's old assistants too, something a rigid coach wouldn't do. Belichick is rigid in his personality, but he's passing the ball like crazy and he comes from the Parcells tree, where they run the ball all over the place. And Coughlin won a Super Bowl the minute he stopped being the Soup Nazi and acting more like a human being.

Plus rigid coaches don't last as long as those guys you listed. They'd have been fired already.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

While i agree with Ried's argument, why is trying to calm us down? I say if RI wants to burn down the team after every loss then BURN MOTHERFER BURN.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 17, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

"...I miss jasno! This dude sucks!"


I never had an issue with Jasno.

In fact, last year after I sent him an email, he sent me back a six paragraph response and suggested I post in this blog.

And in my opinion, dude is fitting in quite well on the NFL Network.

Shefter may have the news, but Jasno really explains why teams do what they do personnel wise in an intelligent fashion.

But I have to go now, you see, I don't want a ticket: The Redskins Offense Express is parked in a Handicapped Zone illegally.

And who wants to stop a blind driver from having a place to park?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 17, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

And we all know communists aren't rigid. Those gulags were like club med.

Alex, I know it's early, but quit while you're ... well, just quit it. ;]

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure about the whole rigid statement. Tomlin, Belicheat, and Coughlin seem like pretty rigid system guys to me. I may be wrong though, I don't follow those teams too closely.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 17, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Scamp, I would have to think back a bit but here is my take. first of all 2 of the 3 are D guys first which is interesting to me anyway. Second, I think Tomlin came in to Pit and changed nothing, kept the staff under him from the last coach. Bellecheat changed most his game plan once he got Tom Brady in there. Also I think Caughlin has changed his philosophy a lot now that he has 2-3 guys who can run it down your throat vs when he just had Tiki.

Its hard to say definitively if they all do change the game plan mid game because how often do we see any of them overmatched in 1 game at any point?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

JZ just let JC be a Quarterback. He's got the skills, let him use them. I belive in JC. He just needs a chance to be himself on the field.

Posted by: classicskins | September 17, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I guess I just didn't realize that we were "Baghdad" in the Bombs over Baghdad analogy.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | September 17, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

So the story now is the fans? Not the guys on the field? This IS going to be a long season.

Posted by: DCV1 | September 17, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

i do not agree with this post, sure we might end up making the wild card, but i do not disagree with people being upset like myself, it seems that the giants are the only team that the entire Skins nation feels inferior too, the players, fans, management, everyone, when we lose to the giants it's like, o well they are a great team, f that, the giants are a division rival and i demand as a fan that we do better against them, it's like we give up before we even play the giants and that's bs, i want the Redskins to win the Super Bowl every year and until we an start winning games against top tier teams we are always going to be in the 8-8 range and that's unacceptable, for a fan base with as much passion as the Skins, nothing less, in my eyes, than a division title is acceptable, so the last 18 yrs or so, minus 1 year have been unacceptable

Sean Taylor played for the Skins for 3 1/2 seasons and the Skins made the playoffs 2 of those years, that to me is def acceptable

Posted by: retroskins14 | September 17, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

brown, belichick is passing the ball all over the place, because he's got TBrady at qb, and he knows that his running the ball with TB as his qb is just assinine...TB saved BB's hide as a coach....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Dik, you got to look at politics in a bigger picture then that oversimplified tripe that we are spooned in MSNBC and FoxNews. We have 2 million years of political society to try and understand and most of us cant get distinguish an economic philosophy from a political one. :P

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

posted this earlier: Tomlin is a Tampa-2 guy and didn't change the 3-4 system in Pittsburgh because it works. Kept a lot of Cowher's old assistants too, something a rigid coach wouldn't do. Belichick is rigid in his personality, but he's passing the ball like crazy and he comes from the Parcells tree, where they run the ball all over the place. And Coughlin won a Super Bowl the minute he stopped being the Soup Nazi and acting more like a human being.

Plus rigid coaches don't last as long as those guys you listed. They'd have been fired already.

Posted by: brownwood26

In all these cases, good coaches who have their own strategy are able to adjust their scheme to their respective team's strengths, and as a result they flourish together as a unit. A pretty stark contrast from what we've seen thus far with this team. Of course they go on a tear and win the division, I'd say that's jelling too. But that ain't happenining without Zorn getting out of his box.

Posted by: pgugino | September 17, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

lol@MOe

Jasno doing better all the time on NFL Network too.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Bean, I wouldn't go that far. Yeah, Belicheck needs TB more than vice versa, but his best coaching came last year with Cassell, where they went 11-5 with a lesser QB. TB is truly great, but it's that coupled with the system Belicheck's put into place there. And besides that, Belicheck's focus is more defense than offense.

Posted by: pgugino | September 17, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Gee thanks for the civics lesson, Alex. Wasn't aware I needed it. I'm all Reuters & BBC, so paint your broad strokes elsewhere. I understand the difference between the two types of systems, on a layman level at least, if not further.

Still a little confused on what you were saying, I guess. Or maybe you were. It certainly wasn't much of a defensible position for you, as evidenced by most of the responses.

Care to clarify?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

There is a lack of confidence in Zorn as a coach and JC as a QB. Their current body of work does not suggest either will, or can, be successful. No one really expected, hoped maybe, the Skins to beat the Giants but the expectation was at least a better showing. Zorn talks a good game but has nothing to show for it. It remains to be seen if he can ever be a successful NFL coach. He seems to be set in his ways and reluctant to change. At some point he must take an objective view of his coaching technique/strategy and make changes to be more successful or he will be moved out.

Posted by: napadcfan | September 17, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, I think you only have a handful of ways to build a successful team and not 1 of them is a lock to work, but you got to stand on a basic premiss and run with it, but it takes time and patience from the fans and owner, neither of which are popular in DC.

Your front office and owner decides on a philosophy for the team. The moment this happens, every person on the roster and every head coach will eventually be cycled out for someone that fits the philosophy. The model itself can change between WC, Smashmouth or whatever.

Because of the structure of the roster this can also take years, they say the average NFL player lasts 4 years and lets say the average contract is 5-6 years, thats about how long it takes to make this really work in my estimation.

We are in year 2 of Vinny's west coast plan from what was previously a smash mouth team.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

We've lost 7 of 8 in our division? Really?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 17, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

pg, disagree, I think had tb not been the GOAT qb that he is, I think that BB is coaching HS Football at this time. TB saved his hide/career, you name it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

disappointed with, well, everything. I get it. Really, I do. And after last-season's late collapse, some skepticism is understandable. But is just seems many of you have forgotten there are 15 games remaining in the regular season. Fifteen. If the Redskins are horrible this season, we'll write about what went wrong and why. I just don't understand being a fan of a team and giving up after the first game.


No offense self appointed mayor but you don't get it. After last season's collapse and the money spent this off season, the supposed development of the triplets, and the second year in the system for the now in control vocal leader JC who had really taken a step forward this was supposed to be a different team. What we got in this game was vintage Redskins with missed blocking assignments, complete inability to run right, nothing from anyone on offense but the same old guys, zero sustained pressure on defense, poor tackling, bend but don't break, CR22 dropped INT, terrible QB play, and boring play calling after one thing doesn't go our way early. While certainly it is only one game, and I fully expect to get to 5-2 or 4-3 before the bye we saw no difference from last year to this one. If you remove a fake FG and late TD against a prevent 3 man rush b/c we had already squandered our timeouts the offense put up 3 points very little yardage. It doesn't bode well for the second half of the season when they are done with the cupcake part of their schedule and play tough teams again. While I haven't given up on the season, they have a long long way to go and a lot to figure out before then. We'll get an idea of how elite the Giants are Sunday night. IF they go into Dallas and manhandle the Cowgirls as badly as they did us on national TV they maybe we're not as bad as I think, but somehow I doubt that is going to happen and we have a lot to improve on before the iggles come to town.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 17, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Care to clarify?
Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Simply, China has changed from communist to capitalist and done it on a dime.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

It's not about that, it's about YOUR mistakes beating you instead of your opponent. If the Giants brought their A-game and we came up a bit short, I could live with that. They played down to our level and still won. THAT'S what pisses me off.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Well, browny, maybe our team had something to do with the Gints not appearing to be playing their "A" game.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

The loss itself is not the reason most people are upset, it's that we committed the same errors that we did during our collapse last season.

  • The playcalling was bland, predictable, and often stopped any rhythm we had developed.
  • We failed to utilize any of our new "weapons" on offense,(FD, MM, MK, DT); through either QB progression or through playcalling that had them as primary options.
  • The defense continued their bend but don't break philosophy despite the upgrades we made defensively in the offseason. Why bring in playmakers and then run a scheme that limits their ability to make plays?

If we had lost but shown some improvement from last year, I guarantee people wouldn't be as upset. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | September 17, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Mr. CODY GLENN, he of the questionable habits. former CORNHUSKER and REDSKIN is no longer in the NFL this morning, having been unceremoniously dumped by the BALTIMORE RAVENS from their roster yesterday. What a waste of a fifth round pick.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 17, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

We're tired of being mediocre...and we're tired of losing the way we did this past Sunday. I'm tired of hearing Santana Moss say he doesn't care what we think after a 2 catch game. I'm tired of Devin Thomas' vagina hurting because he doesn't get in the "flow" of the game. Tired of excises from this team, get a Championship or take your ball and go the f#$@ home. Hail!

Posted by: Smiley2 | September 17, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Or fredi, maybe a little of both.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 17, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

alex35332,
I don't agree at all. We make excuses for Zorn and crew by saying, "It takes a while to install the offense". Look around. Lat year, the Falcons and Dolphins went to the playoffs with first year head coaches who installed new offenses. I am so bloody tired of excuses. I think the real truism in the NFL, and maybe in life, is that winners find a way to win. Period.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 17, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Based of my theory that it take 4-6 years to build a winning team off a system, I think if we had Gibbs to stay a year or at least hired a coach with the same philosophy we would have been a winning team last season.

I think it will take another 3 years for this to become a west coast team. Regardless of Coach or QB.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn should've saw that the Giants were not going to let Moss and Portis beat them. So, what did Corny Zorny do about it to adapt to what the Giants were giving them? Zero. After the game, reporters were asking Zorn about the game and Zorny response was he had to look at the tape/film before commenting.

Wait a second, we have a former quarterback and currently a coacch that need to be Monday Morning Quarterback to understand that the game is right before his eyes?

Posted by: clifton3 | September 17, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Btown:

I think you're not giving BB enough credit. How do you explain their success last year without the MVP?

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | September 17, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Very condescending this post!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | September 17, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Jason you are right that there are 15 games left. We are not just panicing. We are tired of the Redskins not performing well. The coaches and ownership is not on the same page. How can the coaches motivate players when, new around town is ownership plans to fire the coach to get a new more famous coach. We are being cheated. We are not getting a chance to see what this coaching staff can do. The owner has already sealed this staff fate. These players know that a poor season is only going to affect two people. The coaching staff and Jason Campbell. They can do just about anything the want. Who's going to blame them. Not ownership.

Posted by: billyrowland | September 17, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I actually think the offense is installed. I think what happened last year was a function of our lack of depth, which is a failing from the front office, not Zorn. When we had a relatively stable front line we generally had teams off balance and we looked like a playoff team. If you can't protect your QB, you can't do anything.

This year, I don't think there has been dramatic improvement with depth. If we are luckier with injuries we'll be a playoff team and we'll be in contention for the division.

The offense will show up this Sunday and will continue to progress unless injuries on the o-line destroy it.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 17, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

RSH,
Didn't the Dolphins replace like 1/2 their roster in the first season? And I don't remember what type of system ATL was running the year with out Vick vs what they run now.

Not to mention I think the Dolphins are a great example of the adjust to what your talent does best philosophy, which to me just like believing in the West Coast offense or Pro-set offense or whatever.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

osc, they were 11-5 and didn't make the playoffs, so how successful were they? Listen, look at his career, you remove TB from the win loss column, and he's under .500, so how much credit should he get.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Also interesting to me, a lot of the coaches I see constantly brought up are from the Tuna coaching tree.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 17, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 17, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Not Skins related, but hilarious...didn't even realize Ed Lover was still alive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LITi7H4T72I

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

We can't rely on external factors to forge an identity.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 17, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

We've lost 7 of 8 in our division? Really?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 17, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse
JohnD, that should have read "to our division rival", meaning the Gints.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 17, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

osc, they were 11-5 and didn't make the playoffs, so how successful were they? Listen, look at his career, you remove TB from the win loss column, and he's under .500, so how much credit should he get.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 17, 2009 9:56 AM


Brady's got a lot to do with his success, but let's not discount him completely...you DO have to still put a team around him. After all, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl...

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 17, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm with you Mayor. I don't expect the skins to win, much less be competitive, when they play a good team. I am hoping they play a competitive game with the Rams. They could easily lose Sunday if they don't play their best.

Posted by: coparker5 | September 17, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is rigid is BOTH rigid AND soft...and neither in positive ways:

At any level of team sport coaching when a HC has a greater belief in a "system/philosophy/" than the assessments of the talents, skills and limitations of the players = EPIC FAIL.

Zorn is textbook for that kind of rigid.

Tomlin is the exact opposite. Keeps Dick Leabeau who runs a completely different system than he had previously coached as D-CORD/COACH. Understood that you keep what works if the talent was built around it. And its not like he has not personally stamped the team....and why...b/c he understood as HC you have to manage the entire team not micromange the part your previous expertise lies in.

Bellichek, might be a dbag AND lucky with Brady...BUTT that team is chameleon-esq in how they have shed philosophies per personel...3/4..to 4/3...smashmouth to bombs away...no WRs? Ben Watson has career year.

Even that windbag coughlin lightened the F up after player revolts....guess what...championship...


Zorn is soft, but not a players coach. Dudes like Parcells, Cowher, Tomlin will ride a team like a marine drill sergeant when they dont get the results and execution they want....butt then they also know how to treat the players like men when deserved/earned it and build a "die for you" like bond, Also they fall on the sword when its there fault OR deflecting blame from players is needed.

Zorn acts a cornball and lets them where jeans or somesiht but he doesnt treat them like men, doesn't scare/inspire them and throws them ALL under the bus at first op.

Zorn blows....if they win SB this year my base opinion won't change.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 17, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Ahh, thereby showing flexibility ...

..got it.

Still don't see how that rules out Christians, but I do see that aspect of your point.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

WHERE ARE THEY NOW:

1- BRIAN ORAKPO - busting chops for the REDSKINS. Great pick. Should be solely a DE IMHO.

2- There was one?

3- KEVIN BARNES - On the current roster, but hasn't done anything to convince me he should be there - YET!

4- Ditto # 2.

5- CODY GLENN - Whew! The gamble that really was. Next up, MIKE WILLIAMS.

6- ROBERT HENSON - Decent pick and potential, only potential, future starting LB at this point.

7- EDDIE WILLIAMS - Practice squad ghost at Fed Ex.

C- MARKO MITCHELL. What can I say? After this year and last, I think Mr. CERRATO should trade all our picks except those in the compensatory rounds and the supplemental futures. Well-l-l, except for #1.

2010:

3- JEREMY JARMON - great pick and future DE starter, IMHO of course.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 17, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

cL - wtSJK?! Zorn wins the SB and you don't like him?! Sorry - I'm not there with you on that one

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

boops

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 17, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Who the hell says we're giving up REID? This is a town hall and we're just venting. Don't YOU get it? If we had given up, we wouldn't be here supporting your pay-check by posting.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 17, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Here is the deal, at least my deal. I knew the Redskins had a tough row to how in the Meadowlands, and actually had them at 3-1 after the first 4 games.

Failing to make tackles, lining up 10-20 yards off receivers, throwing the ball past the line of scrimmage, calling the assinine reverse throw on play two, running left twice for no gain and then a bubble screen in the redzone vice attacking the endzone EVEN ONCE... They were POORLY COACHED and failed to execute BASIC FOOTBALL PLAYS.

This is UNACCEPTABLE and I for one refuse to accept it. I don't want excuses and reasons why they couldn't connect on this or that play. I want them to STFU, call a better game on both sides of the ball, and execute basic football skills. If they do that...let the chips fall. They were not even close last Sunday.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 17, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Most of you guys need to just relax, wow. He hit it right on the head 1 game against a very good team. 15 more to go. Breathe people. And maybe we can sho a little support for the team we all love.

Posted by: gcoles32 | September 17, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

The issue is the performance by the Redskins (which was horrible) isn't reflected by the 24-17 loss. Most fans watched the game and their feelings are based on how the Redskins played.

You can't overlook the fact that we ended the season horribly and then started out with the same. Had we came out and played hard and did good things but lost to a better team, thats one thing. We played like crap and got lucky to have even scored once.

I think the fact that it was so close under adds to our frustration because I didn't think the Giants looked good, I think its that we looked so bad.

Posted by: jdavism | September 17, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

For what its' worth the disappointment I feel is in a way disconnected from the season. I feel that as fans we are played as dupes or dopes -- either, both. The owner, Sndyer, is just without class. What was great about JKC was, even though he was Candadian, he was one of us. Whereas Snyder just seems season in and season out to try to think up new ways of wedging just one more dollar out of my pocket. The media don't help much either, frankly. Each season we (the fans) get your ramped up "oooo, this could be the season..." which just feeds Snyder's marketing push to get my money. At the end of it all it just stops being fun, and feels very phony.

That's my take. Hey, I hope they win, hope they have a great season, but I hope Snyder gets hit by a truck.

Posted by: atidwell | September 17, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Can you understand being a rabid fan for seasons of this:

93' Richie Petitbon/Conklin/Gannon/Rypien

94'- 00' NorvTurner /Shuler/Ferrotte/Friez/Hostetler/Green/George/Johnson

01'
Marty Schottenheimer/Jeff George/Tony Banks

02' - 03' SteveSpurrier /Ramsey/Wuerffel/Matthews

04' - 07'
Gibbs /Brunell/Ramsey/Campbell/Collins

08' - 09'
Zorn /Campbell

It's not one game. It's nearly half a lifetime for me of being a fan of a lame team. When you've been here another decade, then you can call us out. Until then get real.

Posted by: kmag1 | September 17, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Let me add a lame team that every off season seems to finally get better . . . and every year I believe they are better and let my hatred of the giants, eagles, cowboys start to seeth into a victory froth . . . every year that forth tastes vile going back down.

Can you understand being a rabid fan for seasons of this:

93' Richie Petitbon/Conklin/Gannon/Rypien

94'- 00' NorvTurner /Shuler/Ferrotte/Friez/Hostetler/Green/George/Johnson

01'
Marty Schottenheimer/Jeff George/Tony Banks

02' - 03' SteveSpurrier /Ramsey/Wuerffel/Matthews

04' - 07'
Gibbs /Brunell/Ramsey/Campbell/Collins

08' - 09'
Zorn /Campbell

It's not one game. It's nearly half a lifetime for me of being a fan of a lame team. When you've been here another decade, then you can call us out. Until then get real.

Posted by: kmag1 | September 17, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I plan on buying the Redskins from Dan Snyder to save the franchise.

The first 1,000,000 Redskins fans to send me $1,000 get a share of the team. I asked Obama for $500,000,000 of the stimulus money and he said that was fine as long as I shut up about health care.

Call 1-800-IMFEDUP for details.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | September 17, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

The reality is it was highly unlikely the Redskins, who've lost seven of eight against their division rivals, would win at Giants Stadium.

By Jason Reid | September 17, 2009; 6:30 AM ET

----------

Hence our "despair."

It's never a good sigh when folks are pointing to games on the schedule in terms of their relative degree of difficulty.

No one's "giving up" on the team, Jason.

We're just running on ten years worth of frustration. This here is the WASHINGTON REDSKINS, we play in the NFC East.

Take that attitude back to So. Cal and grab yourself an IN n Out burger while you're there.

We want to see good matchups with the competition right here in our own division, and then the decimation of teams like the Seattle Seahawks, who play in a weak division, in the first round of the playoffs.

... at the very least.

Then, and only then, will the chatter stop, and rightfully so.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 17, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Believe me... The fans know it's the first game of the year. However 1-3 in the preseason, and 0-1 from the start and a game where the offense was almost out scored by special teams....

Oh...that's right they were outscored by special teams. Other than the 6 points from Campbell to Cooley it was either a FG or fake FG to score. Fans are frustrated with the offenses ability to score points. I should know I was a premium season ticket holder with 10K / yr seats and with the economy this year I could not only afford it, but didn't feel like paying to see exactly what happened on Sunday. An offense that can only get close to the GL.

Game after game we can drive down but rarely score big points on offense. Not like the days of Joey T, Doug W and that is what the fans are looking for out of Campbell. We have either the 1st or 2nd highest paid team in the NFL... If your a 1st round draft pick and you've started the last 2 1/2 years you just have to start performing or the fans will never support you. Other fans and myself are tired of the excuses of 'we just didn't get in to our groove or rhythm'

Put in Collins or Colt..... Find some DB's that can cover and tackle better. 22, 23 and 27 are dated and don't tackle with there hands anymore and play off far too much in man to man.

Posted by: BigMikey | September 17, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

aJason we all need a to come up with a name for the redksins offense i have seen some good ones lately. I really like the one called 3 AND OUT!!!! thats what u think when u watch a redksin football game these days

Posted by: chinngy23 | September 17, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

It's not simply about winning or losing.

For me it's about the Redskins being a team I can be believe in of win or lose.

See above and tell me which team in the last 16 years was inspirational outside of Todd Collins 4 game run (best 1/4 season in those 16 seasons) in 2007?

Problem is - every year I believe.

Your're right . . . maybe this year will turn around but after the Giants loss I thought 'I've got 15 weeks of pulling for a QB and Coach and system that won't be here after 15 weeks' . . . sad yeah, but that's par for the course as a Redskins fan - that's based on history not fan foolishness.

Why buy into a team if the owner isn't bought into his own people?

Posted by: kmag1 | September 17, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey JR, here's why I'm disappointed:

I see the same old Redskins from last season, actually I think they looked better last year.
The two top round wide rec'vrs from last year, for whatever reason still can't seem to run a pass rout.
The OL will remain a big question.
The QB, JC though he'll put up decent stats, at the end of the day, cannot produce when it's on the line. What's going to be his excuse this year, too many Off coordinators, not enough time with receivers, not enough protection...

Posted by: wizard5 | September 17, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Everyday I hear the remark - he's still learning the system, or we'll be fine when we jell or develope some chemistry. How is it that the Raiders sign Richard Seymour 1 day before the opening game, and then he proceeds to play every position on the D line and dominates the game? Is he SUPER SMART or just a GOOD PLAYER?

Posted by: VegasJim | September 17, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

The Richard Seymour thing that VegasJim points out really rings true with respect to the defense. He played better than I had seen him play in NE (where he was surrounded by talent). Discussed it on the AH board a few days ago.

In terms of JC - it is put up or shut up time. After the first 1/4 of this season, we will know - can he and JZ and the triplets deliver. We know CP and SM could deliver (note past tense), we will know if they still can. So I will withhold my vitriol towards the team until a few more games pass. Remember, the Rams are looking at Sunday as a winnable game and will be fired up. No more excuses or accusations, we will know.

Regards -

-HGR

Posted by: HughGRection | September 17, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

I like what people are saying here. There was still a lot of the same old same old on display against the Giants.

The main problem I saw was conservatism, not passing on 1st and 2nd downs enough. After the failed ARE play after the CP run, they went into a shell, until the Hunter Smith play. I'd love to see more fluidity, no huddle, shotgun, etc. They have the personnel, and JC can definitely throw.

I agree with Jason, though, that you can't say case closed after one game, on the road, against a tough team. We keep a high bar as fans, but think about how much better the Skins could have played, and yet the Giants could never break away from them.

I still say the Skins have a big breakthrough in them this year, and they can be an elite team for years to come, notwithstanding the legit concerns we all have.

But we all know that muscle memory and bad habits can't be broken in one fell swoop. And they can't be broken only in the offseason or in practice. It has to happen on the field.

So I look to Jason Campbell and his leadership as the key thing. And I really do see logical (if spiritual) reasons to be optimistic, even excited, about the sustainability of success here...as long as JC takes it upon himself to be what only he can be as the QB and the on-field leader of this team.

http://adeolumen.com/2009/09/15/dont-sleep-on-jason-campbell-just-yet/

I still think he'll make that breakthrough this year, and I am very eager to see what happens Sunday against a team we should clobber. I think this week will actually be a better gauge of the Skins prospects than last week, because a team that wants to control its own destiny should carve up the hapless Rams, especially after last year's loss.

HTTR.

Posted by: gatorado | September 17, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

This team generally has had better talent than its record which means that it has a problem with coaching or scheme.

Tis is not a theory, it is obvious to anyone who has watched the Redskins over the past decade.

So for a new coach, it is important to recognize this and make the necessary corrections.

period.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 17, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

We lost the game because of two things!! POOR PLAY CALLING and LOOSE COVERAGE IN OUR SECONDARY !!!! Sometimes you need to pass in order to get eight men out of the box so Portis can run !!! Clinton Portis just made a very similar statement!!!

With the receivers that we now have on offense we can be a high scoring quick strike team if Jim Zorn gives JC the chance to use his arm! JC now knows the plays so he is ready to air it out!! We will win or loose the big games not with Portis and his legs but with JC and his arm !! Most well coached teams have the ability to take away the running game !! If you are afraid to pass you will loose these games everytime !!!!

JIM ZORN wake up and smell the coffee... LET JASON PASS THE BALL !!!!!

Posted by: LETJASONPASS | September 17, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

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