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Zorn calls for Redskins to 'dig down deep'

With the Redskins (3-8) firmly entrenched in last place in the NFC East and the goal of a winning season unattainable, it would not be surprising if some players began to lose focus. But Coach Jim Zorn is confident the Redskins will fight to the finish.

"I'm going to call for them to dig down deep. They've been doing it all year," Zorn said. "They're not trying to create any fantasy that's not there. We kind of know what the real situation is for us. These have been excellent players and I'm very proud of our football team.

"I'm proud of the way that they've played. They hurt after every loss. It's not the type of thing where we come in after the game and just take showers and leave. It hurts. It hurts the coaches, the ownership and the fans. There is nothing good about the end result. The only thing I can say is what were pushing towards is that pride in doing a good job and being professionals."

On the Redskins' popularity

Dan Steinberg looks at the numbers on the Redskins' nationwide popularity and concludes that it isn't slipping.

By Jason Reid  |  December 1, 2009; 9:01 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Redskins know secrets of Williams' success

Comments

FIRST to say Skins get raped by 5 touchdowns in this game. 55-0, Zorn fired right after the game. And that's my optimistic assessment...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Skins 27, Saints 24.

Upset of the year.

Saints traveling on a short week after big win. Will overlook Skins. Classic letdown game. Skins #1 pass D, getting back Haynes and Hall (?) looking to do some damage. Guys are desperate to put a positive spin on the season.

You heard it here first.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 1, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

... everyone loves a doormat...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"I want the Redskins to win, but I would also like for Williams to get some measure of revenge on the franchise"

I just don't get this method of thinking, I really don't. What did the redskins do to Williams that was so awful?? They choose another coach right, and by choosing another coach Williams ended up in the best possible situation that he could, so what is he bitter about again??...I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm from the northeast, I get the whole, petty/bitter/scorned thing, but time to move on....GWilliams ended up in a better situation didn't he?? So whats the point??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Um, hate to dampen your misplaced optimism, but I wouldn't call Denver's offense "high flying". They might have better WRs overall, but Kyle Orton ain't Drew Brees.

New Orleans is on a mission and Gregggg has a score to settle. This won't even be close.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:12 AM

FIRST to say Skins get raped by 5 touchdowns in this game. 55-0, Zorn fired right after the game. And that's my optimistic assessment...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:14 AM


Kill joy.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I just don't get this method of thinking, I really don't. What did the redskins do to Williams that was so awful?? They choose another coach right...I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm from the northeast, I get the whole, petty/bitter/scorned thing, but time to move on....GWilliams ended up in a better situation didn't he?? So whats your point??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:13 AM


Dude, Williams was being groomed to take over for Gibbs. He was the successor who got strung along and got let go when the team obviously never had any intention of giving him the job. Inverviewing a guy 4 TIMES when he's been in your building for 4 years is a sham. Williams has every reason to hate Danny and this organization and I for one hope he does get his pound of flesh.

And yes, he's on a better team right now but coaches at this level tend to want to be head coaches. If you ask a coach if he'd rather be the head coach of a mediocre team or a coordinator on a great team, I'll bet a lot of them would take the head coaching gig. More money, more visibility, and it's the highest level of your profession.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

again, what score does Gregg have to settle?? He ended up in a better place right?? So, he's bitter about that.....is that what you think brown?? Is his thinking that he'd rather be saddled with this owner/team, than be sitting at 11-0 where he is??

Is this backwards day or something....what am I missing??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry Greg...did you read that last paragraph? Let's try again:

Yes, he's on a better team right now but coaches at this level tend to want to be head coaches. If you ask a coach if he'd rather be the head coach of a mediocre team or a coordinator on a great team, I'll bet a lot of them would take the head coaching gig. More money, more visibility, and it's the highest level of your profession.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Riggins w/ some positive analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0m0hVXOxE&feature=sub

Maybe Soup's real talent is 'guts' & Leadership? I guess I can go with that. Those traits take longer to emerge usually.

... though I think those two interceptions lost us the game.

How 'bout a real O Line next year, FO?

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I don't care what Gregggg says publicly, a guy with an ego the size of his just HAS to want to be a head coach.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

... though I think those two interceptions lost us the game.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 9:26 AM


No way...if you get 24 points from this putrid offense you should win 9.5 times out of 10. Period. The defense gets the blame for this one.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

FIRST to say Skins get raped by 5 touchdowns in this game. 55-0, Zorn fired right after the game. And that's my optimistic assessment...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:14 AM

11 points per touchdown? How does five touchdowns add up to 55 points? You figuring there will also be six field goals and a safety?

Neither of these wild-azz statements will be correct, as usual with brownwood predictions. I'll put this up on Monday and we'll reconsider how accurate you were. If either one is wrong, you have to push a peanut around the Washington monument with your nose and a sign on your butt saying "I LOVE DAN SNYDER AND ALL HE STANDS FOR." If you're right, then I have to push the peanut and you can pick out the sign. Okay?

This prediction will be correct: You'll have the usual brownwood excuses and will try to blame it on everyone else. "I was being sarcastic." "You're stupid for not seeing it." "I didn't mean literally." Blah, blah.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

again, what score does Gregg have to settle?? He ended up in a better place right?? So, he's bitter about that.....is that what you think brown?? Is his thinking that he'd rather be saddled with this owner/team, than be sitting at 11-0 where he is??

Is this backwards day or something....what am I missing??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Bean, either you're more forgiving or compassionate than most (which isn't a bad thing at all), or maybe a little naive. In trying to put myself in Grilliams shoes, for sure I'd be excited and pleased to be running the defense for an 11-0 team that is a legit favorite to win the Super Bowl, no doubt. But any competitor has a long memory, especially when feeling disrespected or slighted in any way. They don't forget, and since it's only been 2 years (I think it might be different if it was like 5 years ago or something), I'm sure Grilliams is relishing the chance to come in and beat the snot out of the Skins, if for no other reason than to prove Danny and Vinny wrong for not letting him have a chance as HC here...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

brown, agree to disagree dude, the best thing that could happen to GWilliams was how this panned out, unless you think he'd rather be the head coach of this team, and what gives us any reason to believe that he'd be better than 3-8.

So HC at 3-8....

DC at 11-0.....

I'm going with my thinking that he's thanking his lucky stars he wasn't picked.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, but to go along with Greg, what does wanting to be a head coach have to do with revenge against the Redskins?

And, if you're a true Redskins fan, why would you root for another team to slaughter the 'Skins, just because their D-Coach didn't get a date at the prom with Danny?

Yes, I'm a Gibbs fan, and was totally blown away when he came back to the team, but coaches? Rooting for coaches? Against your favorite team?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | December 1, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"I want the Redskins to win, but I would also like for Williams to get some measure of revenge on the franchise"

I just don't get this method of thinking, I really don't. What did the redskins do to Williams that was so awful?? They choose another coach right, and by choosing another coach Williams ended up in the best possible situation that he could, so what is he bitter about again??...I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm from the northeast, I get the whole, petty/bitter/scorned thing, but time to move on....GWilliams ended up in a better situation didn't he?? So whats the point??


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:17 AM
------------------------------------------
Bean,
I'm sorry you don't get it, but let me try to enlighten. Williams was, arguably, the heir imminent when Gibbs left. He had four meetings with Snyder during the search for a new head coach and many people - including me - thought he was a shoe in. He would have been the natural selection - someone with head coaching experience and experience with the team. He deserved his shot. Then Snyder canned him and went on his magical mystery tour of trying to find a head coach which ulimately ended up with them hiring a guy with no experience as a coordinator or head coach and no track record with the team. That's a slap in the face if ever there was one. So, yes, I do think Williams has an axe to grind and yes, I would like to see him stick it to Snyder.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

C'mon, brown, be real.

55-0?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 1, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Williams was being groomed to take over for Gibbs. He was the successor who got strung along and got let go when the team obviously never had any intention of giving him the job. Inverviewing a guy 4 TIMES when he's been in your building for 4 years is a sham.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:21 AM

beantowngreg wins again. This is arrant nonsense, brownwood.

There is no evidence that Williams was "strung along." It was what it was. He landed a good gig, big salary, great working conditions, and heavy voice in player selection in DC after blowing it badly in Buffalo.

Four "interviews" is what's usually called negotiations -- Williams could not agree on terms with the owner. That's not Williams fault and it's not the owner's fault.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse


Sounds like El Zoron the Moron is either a bit of a Jesuit or a masochist -- or both -- in that he seems to appreciate and enjoy how badly the team "hurts" after each loss. I can only imagine how "hurt" they'll feel after Sunday's loss to the Saints. What a bunch of losers, and now with a head coach who seems to like it too!!

Posted by: Vic1 | December 1, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

ml, it has nothing to do with compassion, but more with reason, and logic, GWilliams, had he taken this job, would probably have fared about as well as JZ, maybe slightly better, given the circumstances, so this would have been his second unsuccessful go round, with 2 disfunctional franchises buff/wash, and nothing to show for it, from a HC perspective.....

sorry, I just don't get the angle that he somehow has an axe to grind...didn't danny save him from this mess??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

paskinsfan17

"So who is this accurate deep ball thrower that can avoid a heavy pass rush that's coming out in the draft this year?"


Easy Question, Easy Answer:

Sam Bradford

Go watch the 2009 National Championship Game and you'll see the gators pressure and hit Bradford multiple times without his getting rattled.

Bradford fit tight passes into great coverage by two good corners, Joe Haden and Janoris Jenkins.

I watched a Mizzou v. Sooners game from 2007 where Bradford got hit a lot and still put the ball where it had to be.

The guy catching a lot of those passes: Malcolm Kelly.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

eff j.reid and his effing stupid polls

Skins 72 Saints 71

eff gregggggggggggggg

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 1, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Four "interviews" is what's usually called negotiations -- Williams could not agree on terms with the owner. That's not Williams fault and it's not the owner's fault.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Never heard that angle before...where did you get that info? Are you saying he was offered the job and couldn't come to terms on a salary?

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

To see the Redskins pull an upset over New Orleans is not a priority for me. My Redskins, yes, but I am still a fan of the Game.

And I like New Orleans better than New England. Would love to see New Orleans go undefeated and win the Super Bowl so NE won't be still talked about in the undefeated circle. Only Miami and New Orleans would be.

So a victory by my Redskins this week would be hollow for me considering the story that New Orleans is writing.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

ok well i think the Skins will cover the spread.

even if the players play well enough to win corny zorny will find a way to bollucks it up.

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 1, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

will all the players placed in IR, except cs, be ready for the next season?

Posted by: Skins2 | December 1, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I hear ya, Brownie.

But I do contend that this defensive scheme cannot stop people. Until they quit the shell D concept, they'll be in close games (and loose them)... at least with this offense.

For this D scheme to work, the offense needs to be either prolific (like New Orleans) or mistake free (see first 8 games last season).

So while I agree that the D bears some responsibility, I believe that's by design. Those turnovers cost us 6 points, though, right? There's your difference.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

11 points per touchdown? How does five touchdowns add up to 55 points? You figuring there will also be six field goals and a safety?

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:28 AM


I meant "at least 5 touchdowns"...my bad.

And no dice on your little bet. Not even upon pane of death would I declare anything but hate for Dan Snyder and everything he's done to our beloved Redskins. That would be like becoming friends with a guy that f*cked and abused your wife...no chance.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Good news? The Raiders are after the Saints! Might be the only victory the rest of the way...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 1, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Four "interviews" is what's usually called negotiations -- Williams could not agree on terms with the owner. That's not Williams fault and it's not the owner's fault.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:36 AM


If you believe that, I've got a bridge in London you might be interested in...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

ml, it has nothing to do with compassion, but more with reason, and logic, GWilliams, had he taken this job, would probably have fared about as well as JZ, maybe slightly better, given the circumstances, so this would have been his second unsuccessful go round, with 2 disfunctional franchises buff/wash, and nothing to show for it, from a HC perspective.....

sorry, I just don't get the angle that he somehow has an axe to grind...didn't danny save him from this mess??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

First off, quit using the logic card. Second, if you do want to keep playing the "I'm more logical and reasonable than everyone else" tune, then don't contradict yourself. How in the world can you say Grilliams would have performed about the same as Zorn as a head coach? It's a rediculous speculation on your part. Gregg had already been a HC before, which Zorn hadn't, and already knew our players and their strengths, personalities, limitations, etc. There is no way of knowing how it would have played out. You have ripped Zorn repeatedly for his mistakes (not giving the triplets an opportunity, playcalling, etc.), and in many ways have given him a good share of the blame for our record this year. You don't think Williams could have done better? Doesn't sound too logical to me...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I wasn't a blogger when GW was here, but I have a question that is off subject, but one that I have always wanted to know the answer.

Concerning, Greg Williams, Joe Gibbs, Danny Synder, and the Lavarr Arrington fued, whom or who was actually responsible for benching Arrington and claiming that he could not learn Gregs schemes?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | December 1, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

"FIRST to say Skins get raped by 5 touchdowns in this game. 55-0, Zorn fired right after the game...."


Given their pattern of play, I'll be the first to say the skins will come after the saints.

I say you hit a passing team in the mouth.

What do we have to lose?

Brees will get hit and should be.

The saints have undersized backs: punish them with C Wilson and B Orakpo coming off the edges.

Spemd the week reviewing tackling, stripping the ball, and punishing whomever gets downfield.

Yes the saints wideouts are good.

So let's drawn some roughing and holding penalties early on that the refs will eventually ignore.

I'd like to see Landry launch himself in Reggie Bush or Colston just to say, "Hey, 10-0 means nothing to me!"

And let's keep what's becoming the plan of attack on offense: power-0, sweeps, and pounding the ball right into the heart of the saints' undersized defense.

Campbell doesn't need to be Drew Brees. He just needs to use his arm and legs to make plays when they are there to be had.

This week's contest makes me upset the skins didn't sign Larry Johnson to use as a battering ram for games like this.

Yeah, the saints will win.

But let's make them run to the bus in pain once the final gun fires.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Never heard that angle before...where did you get that info? Are you saying he was offered the job and couldn't come to terms on a salary?

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 9:38 AM

No. It wasn't salary. It was more about Snyder's demanding control over who would be the assistants, the WCO, and the QB. My own picture is that -- in the end -- Williams wouldn't agree to the terms that Zorn accepted.

As to where I got this "info" it was posted up here during and after the coach search debacle so I don't know whether it's accurate. Since brownwood didn't post it, it might be. No one knows what really happened so we each have our own vision.

But, to me, this is a more logical explanation of what happened and why than the brownwood nonsense about "he was strung along when they never intended to give him the job." I think they intended to give him the job, but not on terms that he would accept. Otherwise, there never would have been four meetings to discuss it.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Good news? The Raiders are after the Saints! Might be the only victory the rest of the way...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 1, 2009 9:46 AM


I'd believe that if the game were at FedEx...the Raiders have beat the Bengals and the Eagles at the Black Hole. Looks like a legit homefield again.

Plus I don't trust Zorn on a West Coast trip.

Or an East Coast trip for that matter...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

If you believe that, I've got a bridge in London you might be interested in...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:48 AM

No, as usual, you got nothing brownwood. Anyway they moved your bridge to Arizona while you weren't looking.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

No. It wasn't salary. It was more about Snyder's demanding control over who would be the assistants, the WCO, and the QB. My own picture is that -- in the end -- Williams wouldn't agree to the terms that Zorn accepted.

As to where I got this "info" it was posted up here during and after the coach search debacle so I don't know whether it's accurate. Since brownwood didn't post it, it might be. No one knows what really happened so we each have our own vision.

But, to me, this is a more logical explanation of what happened and why than the brownwood nonsense about "he was strung along when they never intended to give him the job." I think they intended to give him the job, but not on terms that he would accept. Otherwise, there never would have been four meetings to discuss it.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Ahh, I see. Well, watching Snyder and Cerrato all these years, I'm guessing that is certainly a possibility...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, the saints will win.

But let's make them run to the bus in pain once the final gun fires.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 9:50 AM


I'm sure they will.

But it seems to me if Belichick can't draw something up to even slow down the Saints, then Greg Blache won't fare any better.

I mean, this IS the team that can't get a guy within 10 yards of DeSean Jackson...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Gregg Williams 17-31 as HC in Buffalo.

You really think he would be doing much better than Zorn?

If it was anyone other than Williams people would be shouting about Danny even considering a person with a 17-31 record as a HC.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"First off, quit using the logic card. Second, if you do want to keep playing the "I'm more logical and reasonable than everyone else" tune, then don't contradict yourself"


Dan Snyder - Gregg, would you like a first class ticket on the Titanic...??

Gregg - No thanks

And for this Gregg should be angry....right....sorry about using logic....my bad...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

No, as usual, you got nothing brownwood. Anyway they moved your bridge to Arizona while you weren't looking.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:54 AM


Wow, do you write your own stuff? (eye roll)

Seriously, change your handle from "League Source" to "Larry Michael". We're on to you, dude.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

And for this Gregg should be angry....right....sorry about using logic....my bad...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Whateves, Bean. Pointless debating anything with you, anyways...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Four "interviews" is what's usually called negotiations -- Williams could not agree on terms with the owner. That's not Williams fault and it's not the owner's fault.

Posted by: League-Source | December 1, 2009 9:36 AM
-------------------------------------------
I'm about 90% in agreement with you, but why let Williams go when it didn't work out? Wouldn't it have been better for both parties if he had stayed on as defensive coordinator? I think Williams asked for the same control Gibbs had and Snyder balked because he wanted to go back to being a kid with an ant farm. Then, he didn't want anyone around who could call him out on it when things went awry, so he and Williams came to an agreement that Williams would leave. Along the way I think Williams got some hush money to not tell the media the whole story because Williams has been atypically quiet about the whole thing.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Gregg Williams 17-31 as HC in Buffalo.

You really think he would be doing much better than Zorn?

If it was anyone other than Williams people would be shouting about Danny even considering a person with a 17-31 record as a HC.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM


I definitely think Gregggg would be better than Zorn. It's hard to be worse.

But really...they'd have the same offense (you know, one that matches the personnel), the same defense and continuity alone might have won them at least a couple more games. The FO would keep him from having a Belichick-esque turnaround, but he'd be a much better option than Zorn.

That said, it maybe better in the long run that Zorn ended up here because this rock bottom year might finally prompt Danny to start a wave of REAL change here.

A guy can dream...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Gregg Williams 17-31 as HC in Buffalo.

You really think he would be doing much better than Zorn?

If it was anyone other than Williams people would be shouting about Danny even considering a person with a 17-31 record as a HC.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I think he would have done better. He had just watched a Hall of Fame coach in Joe Gibbs take a terrible mess of a team and take it to the playoffs twice in 4 years. I think that time observing Joe had a profound impact on him, and he would have made a better HC the second time around. I'm not saying we'd be 9-2 right now, don't get me wrong...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"First off, quit using the logic card. Second, if you do want to keep playing the "I'm more logical and reasonable than everyone else" tune, then don't contradict yourself"

Dan Snyder - Gregg, would you like a first class ticket on the Titanic...??

Gregg - No thanks

And for this Gregg should be angry....right....sorry about using logic....my bad...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 9:57 AM
-------------------------------------------
Bean,
I don't get your logic, dude. When Gibbs retired the team was fresh out of the playoffs - a team whose stock was rising, not falling. Williams, being a coach and a competitor, would have had his heart's desire if he had gotten the head coaching job. He wanted it, you can be assured. Maybe he wasn't willing to sell his soul for it as Snyder was probably asking, but he wanted it, and you can be assured he was very disappointed when he didn't get it. These guys only get so many shots at being a head coach, and this might have been Williams' last best chance.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I still blame Double G for some of the failings in the Gibbs 2.0 era. His scheme, while valid and successful in the NFL, is not one that works with the offenses we've built (or... ended up with as the case may be).

I think we've all seen lost games here when the D scheme fails to deliver.

There's not much denying the success Williams has had in this league. But he was never a good fit here. I wish him well and admire his squads - but until we can regularly put up 35 points it ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Re-watched the 1st half of the game from this past Sunday. A couple of things I liked in their offense game plan.

1. They had JC in shotgun set up @ 4 yards instead of 7 yards, I guess to help w/ the outside rush. It helped get rid of the ball quicker on the shorter routes.

2. I liked how they got JC moving early in the game. The designed QB run for example.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

ml and brownwood. Let's say Williams land the job here. These are your coaches going into last season.

HC - Williams
OC - Zorn
DC - Probably Williams

Offense would still struggle and I think eventually you end up with a guy like Sherm Lewis anyways.

Maybe you win a game or two more, but you end up with the same mess this season.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Redskins/Eagles game will be replayed tonight at 8 on NFL Network...

They're replacing Zorn with GWilliams for the replay, so should be worth tuning in for.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I wish the players would just dig a deep hole and bury Zorn in it...

I know it is older article, but I will be pissed if BMW replaces Edwin Williams at Guard this week. I think the young kid played well and deserves to continue to play...BMW seems like a lost cause to me at this point.

Hail Skins!

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Zorn for any role other than QB coach was the real mistake.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

ml and brownwood. Let's say Williams land the job here. These are your coaches going into last season.

HC - Williams
OC - Zorn
DC - Probably Williams

Offense would still struggle and I think eventually you end up with a guy like Sherm Lewis anyways.

Maybe you win a game or two more, but you end up with the same mess this season.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:15 AM


Not sure of the timeline, but I'm pretty sure Zorn was brought in when Williams was already out of the picture and they thought they were gonna hire Fassel. Not 100% on that.

All I know is that Williams was quoted as saying he would have kept Saunders as OC and I think the likelihood would have been Jerry Gray as DC (he was Williams' DC in Buffalo and as damn good there). If that's the scenario, that's 100% better than the clusterf*ck that is the Zorn Era.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Redskins win this.

Ga-rawn-teed.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Zorn for any role other than QB coach was the real mistake.


Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:23 AM

Agreed...I think if Grilliams was the coach, I think we would have the same issues that we have now or at least same results. Maybe he would have made sure Landry was a better tackler.

Is Grimm the OC at Arizona or just the OL coach?

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

brown, calling saunders 100 percent better than what we have now is.....inaccurate at best...lets just both agree that BOTH offenses sucked, and continue to suck....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Regardless of what williams might be thinking about "sticking it to the skins," he's gotta be licking his chops at the chance to just absolutely destroy a quarterback. last night he was dialing up the blitz from everywhere and just trusting his corners. i guess that's what you can do when your team is as prolific on offense as the saints are. whereas, when he was coaching the skins D, he couldn't afford to give up the quick hitter; in NO it's ok to do so.

Posted by: braker19cleartheline | December 1, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Zorn for any role other than QB coach was the real mistake.


Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:23 AM


Somewhat off topic, but I find it pretty comical that on Madden, having Zorn as coach increases the QB throw accuracy rating 5 points for short and intermediate passes, yet DECREASES the throw deep rating by 5 points. Talk about art reflecting real life! High comedy...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Pockets, see riggo's YOuTub vid for some further explanation there.

...I never knew that Zoron was Fassell's guy... interesting.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Zorn for any role other than QB coach was the real mistake.


Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:23 AM


I don't know about that. I'm beginning to think that Hasselbeck won IN SPITE OF having a losing QB be his position coach....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Is Grimm the OC at Arizona or just the OL coach?

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:26 AM

HE is:

Assistant Head Coach
Running Game Coordinator
OLine Coach

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

brown, calling saunders 100 percent better than what we have now is.....inaccurate at best...lets just both agree that BOTH offenses sucked, and continue to suck....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:27 AM

Saunders last year here they went 9-7 and made the playoffs. Zorn couldn't find the playoffs or a decent play call without a GPS. I stand by that statement.

Saunders had #1 offenses in KC with less talent than the Redskins had. Seems to me the problem was here. The tug-of-war over scheme between he and Gibbs was the main problem from what I've heard. I think if he was in a situation where he could have autonomy over the offense, he'd have been better.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

brownwood, I must have misremembered the timeline around when Zorn was hired.

That's funny about Madden. I think Zorn's play calling would be better if he carried around a psp and used the 'ask madden' to choose his plays.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th.

So if Portis is not going to play the next game, why dont we just IR him?

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

brown how many ppg did they average with Suanders??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Why is Zorn calling plays anyway? Give the gig to Bingo full time. Make him OC.

Let Zoron move to 'big pic'. I actually think his de-construct to re-build methodology could actually work in a 'crazy like a fox' way if he is indeed able to fully break apart and construct the team's psyche.

Sacrificing CPo is evidence of this and really seems to be working. Crazier things have worked, I suppose....

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

That's funny about Madden. I think Zorn's play calling would be better if he carried around a psp and used the 'ask madden' to choose his plays.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 10:36 AM


Yeah, he couldn't do much worse. But then he'd screw up the substitutions. It's always something with that guy...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

brown how many ppg did they average with Suanders??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:42 AM


Don't know off hand, but I'm sure you'll tell me...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

SO....with most people up here saying we have been doing better w/o Portis....Shouldn't you guys be adding other names as well?????

Like Ladale Betts, Randy Thomas, Chris Sameuls, Chris Cooooley, and such as?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

What kind of Offense does the Saints run? Cuz it is nasty...obviously Brees has a lot to do with it.

Look at what they have been able to accomplish, with IMO is less talented than the skins, minus Brees. I think Cooley/ Davis is a push against Shockey.

But the biggest issue is that they have an Identity, as do the Gints, Iggles and Steelers, etc.

We cant move further without a clear path or identity laid out for the future, that matches our talent or plan.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford is probably the worst QB for us to bring in here. He was a shotgun QB and spent little time under center. When he had a bad line he didn't even last 2 games. If he busted his shoulder in college what do you think is going to happen to him in the NFL behind our line? He'll get killed. He never throws on the run and is never forced out of the pocket because he has rarely faced any pressure and when he did he got rattled. Why would you use the BCS title game as an endoresment? They got clobbered and he threw 2 picks. I'd take McCoy, and Pike over Bradford. Bradford has zero mobility. He would die here. The only way I'd take him is if he was still there in the second round. Then I'd leave him on the bench until I had a line that provided at least 4 seconds of pass protection. He'll be a good quarterback. He just won't be good here.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

brown its negligible.....I don't have the exact figures, but come on, both offenses suck, sucked, and will continue to suck, calling it 100 percent better with Saunders gives the impression that they were a viable offense under him....they've had a lousy offense for YEARS....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Kind of what I was saying yesterday 4th...now that these young players are playing and seem to be doing alright, is Vinny not that bad or were the other players really not that good?

I think it clearly shows that Zorn's unwillingness to think outside of his scheme has caused us to be stagnant and waste talent that will probably be picked apart by another team.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

brown how many ppg did they average with Suanders??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:42 AM


Don't know off hand, but I'm sure you'll tell me...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

20.9 ppg, 26.3 in the four-game winning streak to end the season. Campbell's third year under Saunders, and the offenses 3rd year in general, would have been a bit better, right? Considering we averaged 16.6 under Zorn in 2008....nah, nevermind...

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Skins will win Sunday. [Book it for me, 4th.] Brees won't know where to throw the ball:

To the wide open guy who put a double move on, well, "Double Move?"
Or to the wide open guy who ran past "Floppy McDiveAtYourFeet?"
Or to the wide open guy who Smoot let go because he thought he had a safety over-the-top-but-really-didn't?

Yes. The Saints will argue amongst themselves about who's more open throughout the game...Brees will end up with the "Jason Campbell in headlights" look, because it's just not possible to have receivers THAT open in the NFL...and the Skins win. Simple, really.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I am all for Pike from UC in the Second round or possibly the 3rd round, kid misses games and comes back to fire 6 TD after a broken forearm, that kid is a player.

Bradford makes no sense to me, I think he will have a harder time in the draft than many project, it will be interested to see if he throws at the combine??

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

ml, where are you getting those stats from because those seem FAR from accurate. Seems to me that someone posted some PPG stats up here recently that were no where NEAR that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

If Williams had become the head coach, I am not sure the team would have retained Saunders. It seemed that there was a falling out there and Saunders' fate was written before the head coaching search began. I think it's reasonable to presume Williams would have tried to keep an offense that was similar to the what was in place, which was some Gibbs, some Saunders. Since they had the players for that offense, I think the team would have been more productive than Zorn's version. As a former head coach, Williams understood a little more about holding players accountable than Zorn, and I think this also would have worked in his favor. I suspect Clinton prima donna Portis would have been practicing a heck of a lot more and the training camps would have been a lot less like leisure spas. Ultimately, I think Williams would have been a more productive coach, but if Vinny was still the guy pulling the strings the team would still have the issues Vinny has given them: a shakey offensive line, a B-grade QB, etc...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

ml, where are you getting those stats from because those seem FAR from accurate. Seems to me that someone posted some PPG stats up here recently that were no where NEAR that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2007.htm

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

If that year was 2006 then this is how they did.

19.2 PTs per game

307 Total points

327.7 yards per game

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

There's no way Williams lets his team lose focus, or take the Redskins lightly. He'll have them ready. And so will Blache who is also a good DC and has a heck of a lot of pride.

In the end they will falter in the 4th and lose by more than 2 TDs. But the Skins will keep it close up until then.

Haynesworth, Hall, Portoise take another day of course.

Posted by: periculum | December 1, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Sorry it was 2007

20.9 per game

334 total points

333 yards per game

NFL.com

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

thanks, so in reality a little more than a field goal better....um...so...whats your point....my point was kind of that the offense is, was, and continues to be lousy....brown claimed it was 100 percent better under saunders, to which I disagreed..thanks for proving my point....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Yeah that's what I want; bring in Sam Bradford another damaged goods draft pick yeah like that wide receiver who can't stay on the field, what's his name? oh yeah; that one. If we are going to go young then please get me a QB with a sound body i'd rather see JC come back but like said yesterday he needs to move on and rub it in this franchise's face. Greg Williams was jerked around real good by Danny boy, but come Sunday after the Saints drop about forty on the Redskins sorry ass then GW ought to feel real good about everything.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 1, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"So if Portis is not going to play the next game, why dont we just IR him?"


This make sense.

The team could just get a practice squad guy on the game roster and let him face live action.

What do we lose?

(Ooops, I forgot: there's that little issue of declaring the season a lost cause that the Wizards of Redskin don't want to admit to.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth, Hall, Portoise take another day of course.

Posted by: periculum | December 1, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I guess you would prefer them to risk further injury for a lost cause?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Anybody comparing Jim Zorn to Gregg Williams as if they're on the same plane of existence regarding coaching ability should be repeatedly jabbed in the jejunum.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I normally don't post on RI but I just wanna say that I admire the 2009 Skins. No doubt I have been disappointed with the lack of positive results in the Win/Loss column but these last 3 weeks (Denver, Dallas, Philly) have shown me alot about the character of this team. Sure, I'd love to root for a winner but this team has shown so much heart and they are worth cheering for. The beauty of sports (to me anyways) is the purity of the game itself. You either catch the ball or you don't; complete the pass on 4th down or throw it 2 yards short of your target; make the game-changing interception or drop it; make the field goal or miss it, etc, etc. All of these mini-failures add up to losses sure, but there is something to be admired about how this team hasn't quit despite the negative results... HAIL!

Posted by: MEssex | December 1, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Bradford makes no sense to me, I think he will have a harder time in the draft than many project..."

"...bring in Sam Bradford another damaged goods draft pick..."

So let me get this straight: if Bradford doesn't get hurt, he's the best quarterback in the draft and worthy of a first round pick.

He gets hurt, will be healthy, but slip to where he's a steal in round s 2/3 and folks say, "No thanks."

A few years ago, the "...he's damaged goods..." argument was made about another Sooner player with an injured shoulder.

His name: Adrian Peterson.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I thought AH was going to play on Sunday? Hall I could care less about, anyone can whiff on a tackle, why have the most expensive corner do it.

I dont think Blache is as good as Grilliams @ DCoord. Doesnt take as many chances and does not blitz enough. This bend dont break crap on our D is atrocious, cuz we always break.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

thanks, so in reality a little more than a field goal better....um...so...whats your point....my point was kind of that the offense is, was, and continues to be lousy....brown claimed it was 100 percent better under saunders, to which I disagreed..thanks for proving my point....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:06 AM


Not sure how that proved your point. I'm 100% sure that 20 points is better than 16. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

right psp, because both guys have a coaching record under .500...there's a huge differece....

what you should have written was in regard to anyone who defends Carlos Rogers....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Mista Moe, I see what you are thinking, but here is my thing...other teams can absorb another bad draft pick or maybe not, but the Skins can not afford another bust QB or project that does not take off, IMO.

I also just like other QB's more than Bradford...Pike, Locker, Clausen, etc.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

thanks, so in reality a little more than a field goal better....um...so...whats your point....my point was kind of that the offense is, was, and continues to be lousy....brown claimed it was 100 percent better under saunders, to which I disagreed..thanks for proving my point....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:06 AM


Not sure how that proved your point. I'm 100% sure that 20 points is better than 16. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Again, Bean, whatever you say dude.

Posted by: mattylight | December 1, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

brown you said the offense with Suanders was 100 percent better than this one....I stated that based on FACTS, it wasn't, 20 points versus 16 points...what part isn't clear to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The thing is that Bradford hardly ever faced any pressure and when he did he got hurt. That has to raise some red flags. He already had some flags since he is coming from a shotgun offense and had a brilliant supporting cast.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"All I know is that Williams was quoted as saying he would have kept Saunders as OC and I think the likelihood would have been Jerry Gray as DC (he was Williams' DC in Buffalo and as damn good there). If that's the scenario, that's 100% better than the clusterf*ck that is the Zorn Era"

So based on what we know, 100 percent better in your mind = less than a TD, because thats the only difference.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Kind of what I was saying yesterday 4th...now that these young players are playing and seem to be doing alright, is Vinny not that bad or were the other players really not that good?

I think it clearly shows that Zorn's unwillingness to think outside of his scheme has caused us to be stagnant and waste talent that will probably be picked apart by another team.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 10:51 AM

Further Proof that Vinny is going no where. His draft picks are working. DT11/MK12/and Sleepy had nice games. Even with the inaccurate passer we have at QB.

Question.....Has anyone broke down JC17's completion % by distance? What's his % under 10 yards? Between 10-20? 20-30? 30 and Beyond?

I gaurentee it goes down dramitically with each level.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Weiss is telling folks that more than 8 NFL teams are contacting him about OC jobs, any thoughts on Tubby coming to DC?

He already gets $18M from ND since they let him go, damn I want that job.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

brown you said the offense with Suanders was 100 percent better than this one....I stated that based on FACTS, it wasn't, 20 points versus 16 points...what part isn't clear to you??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:26 AM


Boy, it's always about semantics with you, isn't it?

I make a statement that the Saunders would be "100% better than Zorn's" and when the last 3 words are proven (you know, the meat of the argument), you try to run with the one word that doesn't fit. Seriously dude, you shoulda been a lawyer.

I mean, you're so far off the topic now that I can barely remember the point...oh yes, it's that the Redskins would be better off in '08 and '09 with Gregggg as HC and Saunders/Gray as coordinators. Now, on that point alone: agree or disagree?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I normally don't post on RI but I just wanna say that I admire the 2009 Skins. No doubt I have been disappointed with the lack of positive results in the Win/Loss column but these last 3 weeks (Denver, Dallas, Philly) have shown me alot about the character of this team. Sure, I'd love to root for a winner but this team has shown so much heart and they are worth cheering for. The beauty of sports (to me anyways) is the purity of the game itself. You either catch the ball or you don't; complete the pass on 4th down or throw it 2 yards short of your target; make the game-changing interception or drop it; make the field goal or miss it, etc, etc. All of these mini-failures add up to losses sure, but there is something to be admired about how this team hasn't quit despite the negative results... HAIL!

Posted by: MEssex | December 1, 2009 11:17 AM
-------------------------------------------
Well said. There are some positives coming out of this. I think we're seeing the players who are still hungry and want victories. We're seeing more of the young guys. My opinion on Tryon has done a 180 since his miserable game in the preseason. Devin Thomas should have been returning kicks all season because he's shown he can do a better job than Cartwright. Fred Davis is playing well and MK is stepping up. I'm intrigued by Ganther because he seems to be getting better and better. There's a lot to be positive about, even if they are not winning.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

It would be a sad day if Vinny goes nowhere...you have to look at his total track record and win/ loss record. Hopefully Snyder will look at the whole picture and not just when Cerrato is giving him a blumpkin.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Just so we're clear, I meant "I make a statement that the offense with Saunders would be '100% better than Zorn's'"

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

ya brownwood you should have said the offense would have been 20% better.

Bean 20% more scoring does make a big difference.

I'm guessing you wouldn't decline a 20% pay raise because it wasn't significant.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 1, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I too believe that there are alot of positives in the season as of late with the young players...at the same time I think they are positives, I feel that they will be the indictments against Zorn and the savior for Cerrato...so a lose/ lose situation IMO.

Cant stand either one, both need to go, but I would hope that a top flight coach would look at the roster and say with a little tweaking that they could succeed.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

There's a lot to be positive about, even if they are not winning.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 11:35 AM


Spoken like a true loser.

joking....sort of. They just putting work in so the next coach can bear the fruits.

(I get your point...long term thinking)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

ppstr8, ok, now we're getting somewhere, sure I'll agree with that, 20 percent better....

and no, not turning down any pay raises, regardless of amount....unless they're paid in bonus points...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

SO....I happened to read JZ's Wiki Page. HE was the 1st QB for the Seahawks and 2nd person inducted into the ring of fame.

The thing that struck me the most was........His last year with the team he was benched in favor of Dave Krieg early in the season and they made the playoffs for the 1st time in history.

Lovable Loser? For Seattle Peeps - Heck Yea! Us? F No!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Now this is something we can all agree on....come home AP....come home...:

Antonio Pierce’s season, and very possibly his Giants career, is over. The team placed the 31-year-old middle linebacker on injured reserve Monday afternoon, according to a team spokesman

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Wouldn't it be better to talk about power rankings over who would have been a better HC?

Bottom line is Zorn Sucks at HC, OC and QB coach (IMO JC is regressing).

Who knows what things would be like if GG was HC.

What I do know is that Zorn needs to go and it would be swell if Vinny was sucked up in the vortex created by Zorn's exit.

Now, where do the Skins rank?

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 1, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

paskinsfan17

"He already had some flags since he is coming from a shotgun offense and had a brilliant supporting cast."


Select the NFL quarterback who doesn't play in the shotgun and lacks a supporting cast from the list below:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Schaub
Philip Rivers
Jason Campbell


The way it works is you find a gunslinger, then surround him with a posse of blockers and catchers.

And BTW: the shotgun formation is no longer some exotic college thingy.

For the dudes listed above, it's the way to 3,500 to 4,000 yards passing seasons.

And we know which guy doesn't fit in that group, don't we?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The way it works is you find a gunslinger, then surround him with a posse of blockers and catchers.

And BTW: the shotgun formation is no longer some exotic college thingy.

For the dudes listed above, it's the way to 3,500 to 4,000 yards passing seasons.

And we know which guy doesn't fit in that group, don't we?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The guy without blockers?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

The way it works is you find a gunslinger, then surround him with a posse of blockers and catchers.

===================

Colt Brennan is the ultimate gunslinger, why not give him a chance to win the game. Can't be his size as there was a short QB lighting it up last night.

Surround him with a posse of blockers and catchers and see what happens.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

4thFloor,
They can't finish with a winning season, so I guess that classifies them as losers. They're playing now for respect and auditioning players for next year. The extreme approach would be to look around at the players that won't be around next year and bench them in place of someone else, just to see what they have. I think this might have been on someone's mind when they signed Bartel to the active roster, but Campbell has stayed healthy and been productive...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Something I thought about last night:

The Redskins are having an unprecedented flurry of injuries. Could this in some way be related to a lack of physical conditioning in the preseason/offseason?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

paskinsfan17

"The guy without blockers?: Jason Campbell"


Campbell also lacks accuracy with the deep ball and has a penchant for fumbling that's unprecedented.

Too, folks have pointed out that even when he has had blocking, Campbell's decision-making ain't all that.

To me, Campbell is a caretaker while the offensive line is re-built.

He's keeping the seat warm for the next guy.

And I hope that guy is a sooner or a huskie, and maybe a gator found in the fourth round.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I think in Williams long meetings w/Snyderatto, GW told them he was going to start the QB that just took the team to the playoffs in 2007, not the first round waste of draft picks that we now know wins 36% of his starts. Between that and GW endlessly trying to explain what a football looks like to them and it just wasn't going to happen for him in DC.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 1, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

RSH - I def get your point. I meant to add, but didn't say was......Zorn is the REAL loser. I have nothing against the Players.....they were put in a bad postion from the get-go.......

8-8 isn't a losing season....btw....You never know...especially after this win against the Saints....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

So is anyone else going to the SEC Championship game? I'll be in Atlanta looking forward to the best game of the year.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins are having an unprecedented flurry of injuries. Could this in some way be related to a lack of physical conditioning in the preseason/offseason?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Brian Mitchell was discussing this on one of the 106.7 shows last week (Friday LaVar?).

He said that conditioning and injury prevention training on this team has very noticeably dropped off since long time strength coach (Reilly?) left a couple years ago. He was very critical. I meant to mention that up here as a few peeps were bickering about this.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 1, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Campbell also lacks accuracy with the deep ball and has a penchant for fumbling that's unprecedented.

Too, folks have pointed out that even when he has had blocking, Campbell's decision-making ain't all that.

To me, Campbell is a caretaker while the offensive line is re-built.

He's keeping the seat warm for the next guy.

And I hope that guy is a sooner or a huskie, and maybe a gator found in the fourth round.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

His fumbling is unprecedented yet he's never in his career fumbled as much as Ben Roethlisberger did last year. Tom Brady had 4 years in which he fumbled more than JC has this year. Fumbles are pretty common with QBs facing a lot of defensive pressure especially from the blind side and it's common with QBs that play out of the shotgun.

You say lacks accuracy with the deep ball even though we hardly ever throw it. What is his deep ball percentage compared to other guys that only throw deep once a game? To me this is a crappy offense and a new QB isn't going to fit it. I'd resign him and build the rest of the offense. Then if the offense is still terrible I'd draft a new QB. The whole point of fixing the rest of the offense first is that we don't know if JC is that bad. There is a chance that he is not that bad and that he is just playing on a terrible team. If he's mediocre on a terrible team then I'd find a hard time believeing he'd be mediocre on a great team. If he does work out then that let's us use a first rounder on another position. We have to fix the offense anyway. I just don't see what the rush is to get a new QB when we don't have a starting caliber right tackle or starting caliber right tackle on the roster.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh lucky skins..the Saints will be playing to clinch their division this week.

Saints, Vikings can clinch divisions in Week 13
Posted by Mike Florio on December 1, 2009 12:05 PM ET
On Sunday, the Indianapolis Colts became the first team to nail down a berth in the 2009 postseason, winning the AFC South a year after the Titans took the division. This weekend, two more teams can join them.

Per playoff scenarios announced by the league, the Saints will win the NFC South with a win or a tie against the Redskins, or a loss or a tie by the Falcons against the Eagles.

Also, the Vikings will win the NFC North with a win over the Cardinals on Sunday night, and a Packers loss to the Ravens on Monday night.

A win is enough to secure a spot in the playoff field for Minnesota. They also can get in with a tie, if the Giants loss and the Falcons lose or tie.

The Colts can lock up a first-round bye via a win over the Titans combined with: (1) a Denver loss or tie against the Chiefs; (2) a Patriots loss or tie against the Dolphins; and (3) a Bengals loss to the Lions.

But a first-round bye is not always a good thing. As pointed out in the Week 12 Morning Aftermath, AFC teams that secured bye weeks since 2005 are 3-5 in the divisional round.

The Colts have played in three of those games; in each one, the team that had a bye lost.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I meant right tackle and right guard.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

He made a statement that there have more season ending injuries during this season than this former strength coache's entire tenure which spanned Mitchell's career here. Sounds exaggerated to me, but on the surface it seems like he has a point.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 1, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

Seems like you are drinking the haterade. Jason has a "penchant for fumbling that is unprecedented". Brees, Romo, and Eli Manning all have more lost fumbles than JC. You talk about accuracy then bring up Locker and Tebow, both of which have documented accuracy issues. Its obvious JC is no savior but do we have to waste another first round pick on a shiny new qb when there are more pressing issues?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | December 1, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

What PA17 said, to a T.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 1, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Zorn just said he called all plays in the final two minutes of the half and the game.

He said he called the Int. and the screen to Thomas that was for a two yard loss.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

He also said he wasted 17 seconds at the end of the game waiting for Andy Ried to decide what he was going to do.

I don't remeber that anybody know what he's talking about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

Seems like you are drinking the haterade. Jason has a "penchant for fumbling that is unprecedented". Brees, Romo, and Eli Manning all have more lost fumbles than JC. You talk about accuracy then bring up Locker and Tebow, both of which have documented accuracy issues.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | December 1, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

If you are going to talk about accuracy with Tebow, please know what you are talking about. If you re going to throw out blanket statements, get it right. It only makes you look ignorant.

Tebow: 66% accuracy (thats average over 4 years)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=183484

Locker: 56%( that is his high over 3 years)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=184374

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Not surprised Flounder. You can see Zorn's fingerprints on play calls during important times of the game.

Vinny needs to sit him down and say do not interfere in the play calling at all. That includes calling TO.

Every time he gets involved it hurts the team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 1, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

flound, that's just so funny, I mean, you can't make this stuff up...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Tebow: 66% accuracy (thats average over 4 years)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=183484

Locker: 56%( that is his high over 3 years)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=184374

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM

Already a Redskin Colt Brennan: 70.3

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145275

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Moe

How many of those throws are jump passes from the two yard line. Tebow is not an NFL quarterback. He is a great leader in gimmick system. The 49ers believed the hype with Alex Smith look where it has got them. 56 percent completion rate is not good for a college quarterback. As I stated before both Tebow and Locker have accuracy issues. Unless the skins start running the option there would be no point to draft Tebow. As much as I hate to say it the skins would be better off drafting Clausen before these two.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | December 1, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

If GW can hold Brady and the Pats to 17 what do you think N.O. will do to soup and DC?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 1, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

The big question about Tebow's accuracy can't be answered by his completion percentage. He has an awkward throw that seems to hang. It's a little slow. The big debate is if his throwing style will work in the NFL. I would classify him as Matt Leinart accurate right now. Leinart was able to fling some ducks down field to wide open receivers or in most cases his receiver just out jumped the defenders. Matt had a great completion percentage in college but it completely nosedived in the NFL even though he had 2 of the best receivers in the game. I'm not sure Tebow will fail but there is a greater possibility of him failing than Clausen, Bradford, or Pike. It may work. I don't think we are in a position to take that chance. Keep in mind we are trying to upgrade over a guy that's mediocre. We can't use a first rounder and have a QB just be mediocre. If that happens then we just wasted a first round pick for nothing.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Shocking... A dude with 'gator' in his handle is defending Tim Tebow. You know, that's almost as shocking as a black cop killer in the NW part of the US getting found rather quickly after the fact, and instead of being detained he was killed -- by one detective, officer, or whatever he was.

Shocking, I know...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 1, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Moe

How many of those throws are jump passes from the two yard line. Tebow is not an NFL quarterback. He is a great leader in gimmick system. The 49ers believed the hype with Alex Smith look where it has got them. 56 percent completion rate is not good for a college quarterback. As I stated before both Tebow and Locker have accuracy issues. Unless the skins start running the option there would be no point to draft Tebow. As much as I hate to say it the skins would be better off drafting Clausen before these two.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer

Spot on about Tebow. None of the QBs coming out are better than the QBs the Skins already have. Hell, none of them are better than Colt Brennen.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Already a Redskin Colt Brennan: 70.3

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145275

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan didnt have to play against SEC defenses. When he did...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls07/bowls?game=sugar

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

He also said he wasted 17 seconds at the end of the game waiting for Andy Ried to decide what he was going to do.

I don't remeber that anybody know what he's talking about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM

It was at the end of the first half, b4 JC second int. The skins stopped them on third down in the red zone. I was screaming for a timeout @ the 1:26 mark. I guess Zorn was waiting to see if Reid would call one, so Zorn called it @ the 1:09 mark. This is issue with Zorn. Either call the T.O or not. Either have in mind that you want another chance to score, or play for the end of the half.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Also, can a blogga that has made the MistaMoe approved reading list explain to Moe that Colt is 6'3" for the next time he wants to call Colt too short to throw over his OL?

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

That stupid TE screen play, had Zorn all over it. Why was he calling the plays at those times if that was supposed to be S. Lewis job????? Just get rid of him now. He admitted to being an idiot, calling wrong plays and now waiting on Reid, why would you wait for another coach to do anything.

Greg, you are right, you can not make this crap up. WOW.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Not saying Tebow is our answer but to say Tebow got 8556 career college passing yards by all jump passes, is just plain retarted. Yes, I spelled it that way on purpose.

Just as shocking Red, when someone with DMV in their name spouts off about how great this area is.

To throw for 66% in the SEC, which is known for their Defenses, is not bad.

But I guess his 2833 rushing yards all came from the 1 yard line as well.

I will steal a line from Bean here....UFB.

To even compare Locker and Tebow's college careers is just mind bottling.

Chazz: Mind-bottling, isn't it?
Jimmy: Did you just say mind-bottling?
Chazz: Yeah, mind-bottling. You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan didnt have to play against SEC defenses. When he did...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls07/bowls?game=sugar

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 12:52 PM

I would argue that had more to do with Colt's OL not being able to handle the rush more than on Colt's accuracy. Colt's worst year he has a 68% completion rate. Dude is accurate and with a team with "blockers and receivers" as Moe put it would be successful in the NFL in my opinion.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Thoughts from RI land on how we would be doing under Williams right now in year 2? I personally think we'd be much further along, assuming Williams would have had his picks for OC and DC. He just brings a certain energy, focus, intensity and discipline that I think Zorn lacks.

Posted by: quinn3 | December 1, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

To All Concerned Parties:

"Seems like you are drinking the haterade....(regarding Jason Campbell)"

Don't think so.

I want Campbell resigned.

I'm aware that he has weaknesses most folk won't admit to.

I'm also aware he as strenghts most folk won't admit to.

Campbell is a work in progress, but I'm not feeling the Jake Delhomme-like outcome I see coming.

A young, very capable back up is what I want should Campbell continue not be able to 'win' games with his arm.

'Cuz no matter what you say about the college guys I like (Locker, Bradford, Pike, and Bradford), each of them has a 'go for the throat' attitude.

And Campbell doesn't.

He can't take victory away via comeback and has yet to prove he can week in and week out.

And that's what we want.

Don't we?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

gatorskin

These cats don't get the SEC.

Don't even try arguing the point with them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Also, why not have JC call the plays in 2 mins, Don't most QBs do that. This is JZ's way of getting his ego stroked. Not not that hard. I'm just sick of it. JZ has to understand that this point playcalling is not his forte.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I wanted to say something about Zorn but f-it he is gone in a few weeks anyway.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

These cats don't get the SEC.

Don't even try arguing the point with them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Who are we to question the likes of Rex Grossman, Tim Couch, Steve Spurrier, Shane Mathews, Danny Wuerffel and Jamrcus Russel?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Who are we to question the likes of Rex Grossman, Tim Couch, Steve Spurrier, Shane Mathews, Danny Wuerffel and Jamrcus Russel?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 1:10 PM

lol.

Moe is a closet Colt fan. Everything he wants in a QB Colt has, except being from the SEC.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

grilliams is to defense as norv turner is to offense... great coordinator... lousy head coach...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 1, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

skins930...

I am worried not about his height, but his throwing motion.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

from the times:
* On the offensive system: "We have a width and a depth to our offense. Right now we’re working on a little bit of depth and the width comes when the guys understand what we’re all doing and how it all fits together. We’re still growing."

zorn must be getting his smoke flow in from the northwest bc this makes absolutely no sense... get rid of this clown...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 1, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

grilliams is to defense as norv turner is to offense... great coordinator... lousy head coach...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 1, 2009 1:14 PM |

He wasn't so great in Jacksonville.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

A young, very capable back up is what I want should Campbell continue not be able to 'win' games with his arm.

'Cuz no matter what you say about the college guys I like (Locker, Bradford, Pike, and Bradford), each of them has a 'go for the throat' attitude.

And Campbell doesn't.

He can't take victory away via comeback and has yet to prove he can week in and week out.

And that's what we want.

Don't we?


Posted by: MistaMoe

Yeah Moe, but none of those names are better than Colt. Will Colt get an opportunity? We'll see.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

From the Times:
The Saints and other issues were brought up moments ago during Jim Zorn's weekly appearance on ESPN 980.

* Zorn said he heard from the league and Eagles defender Jaqua Parker will not be fined for his end-of-game hit on Redskins QB Jason Campbell. Parker spiked Campbell into the turf, and Campbell said he blacked out.

"It was questionable," he said. "They saw it from all angles and they were emphatic it was a clean play. It’s a violent game."

* Zorn said DT Albert Haynesworth (ankle) will practice this week and Haynesworth said on Monday he expects to play.

* CB DeAngelo Hall (knee) will be questionable throughout the week.

* Zorn on facing the undefeated Saints: "That makes it special for us. Our guys will be ready to show what we can do. We're going to play a really hot football team. The fans ought to love this football game. We'll be as ready as we've been."

* More on the Saints: "I’m kind of fired up playing an 11-0 team this week and trying to do what we can to turn our season around. I would love to win out."

* On the offensive system: "We have a width and a depth to our offense. Right now we’re working on a little bit of depth and the width comes when the guys understand what we’re all doing and how it all fits together. We’re still growing."

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

'Cuz no matter what you say about the college guys I like (Locker, Bradford, Pike, and Bradford), each of them has a 'go for the throat' attitude.

And Campbell doesn't.

He can't take victory away via comeback and has yet to prove he can week in and week out.

And that's what we want.

Don't we?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:03 PM |

I do. As well as a QB that consitently reads a D which soup hasn't in eight years. I like Pike or Locker; do need O line (duh). Think DC can get by w/a QB derby between Colt/TC/Woodson. Gotta be better than more of the 17-30, 5-14 in the last 19 from soup that we've witnessed. Makes more sense unless someone is hell bent on starting him on their FF team.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 1, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"The whole point of fixing the rest of the offense first is that we don't know if JC is that bad."

--

I think nearly five seasons of excuses and alibis have proven he's "that bad," and worse. And why would anyone in their right mind want to waste all that money and effort on trying to rebuild a team that is somehow compatible with this proven loser? The sooner this loser is gone, the better!

Posted by: Vic1 | December 1, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"The fans ought to love this football game. We'll be as ready as we've been."
Zorn

====================

This does not bode well for this fan.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 1, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

curz, I thought the same thing...I've yet to see them ready...offensively that is...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

skins930...

I am worried not about his height, but his throwing motion.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 1, 2009 1:19 PM

Yes it's not the best throwing motion, but Bernie Kosar had a nice career w/his throwing motion.

The best part of trying out Colt is that you do not waste a top draft pick that is desperately needed for other positions.

Tender JC and re-sign him if no offers are made on him and let him compete with Colt and others for the starting job.

Do not draft a QB in 2010 is all I'm saying.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

* On the offensive system: "We have a width and a depth to our offense. Right now we’re working on a little bit of depth and the width comes when the guys understand what we’re all doing and how it all fits together. We’re still growing."
-------------------------------------------
If this is the way Zorn speaks to the team it is no wonder the Redskins are where they are. The players probably don't know what he's talking about.

And what about height? He has width and depth covered, but what about height?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 1, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I do. As well as a QB that consitently reads a D which soup hasn't in eight years. I like Pike or Locker; do need O line (duh). Think DC can get by w/a QB derby between Colt/TC/Woodson. Gotta be better than more of the 17-30, 5-14 in the last 19 from soup that we've witnessed. Makes more sense unless someone is hell bent on starting him on their FF team.

Posted by: Realness1

Woodson was cut and Locker is just an average college QB. He's a poor man's Tebow (definately not as good). This dude can't throw the ball in the weak PAC 10. What makes you think he could do it at the next level.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I think nearly five seasons of excuses and alibis have proven he's "that bad," and worse. And why would anyone in their right mind want to waste all that money and effort on trying to rebuild a team that is somehow compatible with this proven loser? The sooner this loser is gone, the better!

Posted by: Vic1 | December 1, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

He's never been ranked below 20th among starting QBs. That means he's always been better than a third of all starting QBs. He's never been bad. He's always been mediocre. Now before you go blabbing about wins and losses keep in mind that he won as many games as Brees last year. He's a decent QB on a crappy team.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Too true RedSkinHead. How can anyone learn when Zorn is speaking in tongues?

Hip Hip Shut Up!

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 1, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Colt/TC/Woodson

Posted by: Realness1

I'm not even going to discuss Woodson not being on the team. Can we stop with the TC talk. The skins will have a new HC, with new OC. If they can't sign another younger and more mobile journeyman QB to back up the starter, then my friend they've hired the wrong HC.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Zorn just said he called all plays in the final two minutes of the half and the game.

He said he called the Int. and the screen to Thomas that was for a two yard loss.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

He also said he wasted 17 seconds at the end of the game waiting for Andy Ried to decide what he was going to do.

I don't remeber that anybody know what he's talking about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 12:35 PM


THIS ALL LEADS ME TO THE FIRST GAME OF ZORN'S CARRER....

I was b!tching about Zorn's coaching when we was down by 2 scores in the 4th QTR in that Thursday Night Inagural game against the Giants. I couldn't understand why he was playing with NO SENSE OF URGENCY. He hadn't even installed his hurry up offense yet! And....THE KICKER...they (I think Sonny) asked him why there was no urgency or why weren't they playing hurry up? And Zorn said that they were only down by one score at the time......

But, I thought I was trippin at the time....Now I KNOW I wasn't trippin....This dude has been setting us up from DAY ONE. (Rembemer Black, Maroon and Yellow?)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I think nearly five seasons of excuses and alibis have proven he's "that bad," and worse. And why would anyone in their right mind want to waste all that money and effort on trying to rebuild a team that is somehow compatible with this proven loser? The sooner this loser is gone, the better!

Posted by: Vic1

Those are shocking comments coming from you Vic. Put the peices in place first. I recall San Diego said the same thing about Brees before they drafted Manning/Rivers. Now, I'm not saying he'll ever be Brees like but its amazing what you can do if you have the talent and right system.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

curz, I thought the same thing...I've yet to see them ready...offensively that is...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 1:27

The game after the bye exemplifies this best. Two weeks to prepare for Atlanta and the Skins were truly offensive.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 1, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

The skins need an O-line and a young RB before they need a QB. We just need a QB like Trent Dilfer, a game manager. Even if the skins draft a QB, he will more than likely sit on the bench. When was the last Rookie to start for the Redskins on the offensive side of the ball? Cooley?

I dont mean because they had to due to injuries.


Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Have Colt Brennan compete with Campbell for the starting QB spot, then watch him lose it just like he did to Todd Collins in their competition for the backup spot this past offseason. Anybody that actually thinks Brennan will beat out Campbell (especially coming off hip surgery in which he hasn't played in at least 6 months) is 100% delusional, out of their minds, or just plain stupid.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

When was the last Rookie to start for the Redskins on the offensive side of the ball? Cooley?

I dont mean because they had to due to injuries.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 1:37 PM |

That is part of the major problem here good teams play rookies out of the box and let them learn.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"When was the last Rookie to start for the Redskins on the offensive side of the ball?"

Ed Williams, Heyer, Campbell, Cooley, Dockery, Gardner, in that order.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Have Colt Brennan compete with Campbell for the starting QB spot, then watch him lose it just like he did to Todd Collins in their competition for the backup spot this past offseason. Anybody that actually thinks Brennan will beat out Campbell (especially coming off hip surgery in which he hasn't played in at least 6 months) is 100% delusional, out of their minds, or just plain stupid.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 1:40 PM

You were wrong supporting JC and had to change your opinion of him. Were you 100% delusional, out of your mind or just plain stupid on this?

You are wrong in your support of Rogers as a cover corner.

What makes you think you are right now?

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

That is part of the major problem here good teams play rookies out of the box and let them learn.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Is this a hold over practice of Gibbs football? I know he was very loyal to Veterans and felt Rookies needed time.
It is frustrating watching division rivals play their offensive Rookies with success, while ours are stuck on the sidelines.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

paskinsfan17

"Who are we to question the likes of Rex Grossman, Tim Couch, Steve Spurrier, Shane Mathews, Danny Wuerffel and Jamarcus Russell?"


You're right about the quarterbacks from the SEC.

The great fault of SEC coaches is that it converts too many of it's athletic high school quarterbacks into wideouts or d-backs.

If you take away the Manning Brothas, all you're left with is Cutler and Campbell and a bunch of back ups.

But without a doubt, whoever wins the SEC Championship will win the National title.

Again.

(We're taking 'Bama in an upset this weekend, BTW.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Is this a hold over practice of Gibbs football? I know he was very loyal to Veterans and felt Rookies needed time.
It is frustrating watching division rivals play their offensive Rookies with success, while ours are stuck on the sidelines.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000

Gibbs started ST21 and Landry as rookies.
I believe Carlos even cracked the starting line as a rookie too.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Campbell did not start his rookie year...he sat for I believe what was a year and 1/2 behind Brunell...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Skins930 can we agree that Colt lost out in the backup competition this year to an aging journeyman QB. In fact some would say he almost lost his spot on the team to Chase, an undrafted FA QB. Couple his poor performance, with an injury that has retarded his development, since he's not even running the scout team, it isn't a stretch to believe that next offseason Colt's suckiness will even be worse.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

But without a doubt, whoever wins the SEC Championship will win the National title.

Again.

(We're taking 'Bama in an upset this weekend, BTW.)

Posted by: MistaMoe

Neither of those teams will beat Texas.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs started ST21 and Landry as rookies.
I believe Carlos even cracked the starting line as a rookie too.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

We will start Defensive Rookies, I was asking for Offensive Rookies.
Campbell didnt start the year, he didnt get in until week 11.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

flounder21

"That is part of the major problem here good teams play rookies out of the box and let them learn."


The constant 're-doing' of contracts is why that happens here.

That plus coaches fearing youth.

Over the past couple of seasons, the skins' FO celebrated re-doing some guy's contract in order to get cap space to sign someone who later failed or underwhelmed.

And while that guy underperformed, a rookie sat on the bench and was denied playing time.

The sad thing is that one of the team's most valuable and under utilized players--Ladell Betts--might not be a redskin as age and injury suggest he might be done.

And the guy never got extended time to shine.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

We will start Defensive Rookies, I was asking for Offensive Rookies.
Campbell didnt start the year, he didnt get in until week 11.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Offensive rookies are a strange and foreign concept to us. We take so few of them we aren't quite sure what to do with them.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 1, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

(We're taking 'Bama in an upset this weekend, BTW.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I hope not, although I will agree that I am more nervous about this one than last year.
I dont know how much of an upset it would be. I wouldnt even put a line on this game.

Should be a defensive battle.

Joe Namath wasnt a bad QB either Moe.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

We will start Defensive Rookies, I was asking for Offensive Rookies.
Campbell didnt start the year, he didnt get in until week 11.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000

Campbell didn't play at all his rookie year.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

TWISI, not sayin that Colt should get the start next season. What I am sayin is that JC if kept should not be given the job, that he should compete with Colt who is on the team, and any other QBs that are brought in.

Colt has proven his accuracy. He is a gunslinger. He has also had the "benefit" of being "developed" by Zorn. Like our other young players, who knows what we have w/Colt.

Regardless the Skins should not draft a QB in 2010.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't wrong about JC. I was wrong about JC for this team. Under this franchise, with this head coach/offensive coordinator, this offensive line, these slowly developing receivers, and this version of Clinton Portis, Campbell would not succeed. I was giving the optimistic approach of having CP be the CP from weeks 1-8 last year, Kelly only needing his health, the offensive line getting lucky with injuries, and Zorn learning something -- anything -- from his collapse last season.

Sadly, none of those came to fruition.

And yes, Campbell started to change around TB/KC, when he got it in his head that he had to "make plays" and force passes, rid himself of his fundamentals, and I thought he had lost it. But in recent weeks, he's played good football and returned to the form that had him as a solid starting QB for his team. Shocker what happens when you have an innovative mind upstairs, and when your receivers actually start to make strides.

In all likelihood, this team is still not good for Campbell, as it'll take longer than the one restricted year he'll have on his contract for the team to actually rebuild. He'll likely be gone in 2 years, and he'll move to another team as a starter or possibly a Jeff Garcia type backup.

But regardless, none of that has anything to do with the fact that Colt Brennan couldn't win a back-up spot on the team, struggled to beat out Chase Daniel who was cut, and will be coming off hip surgery for the second time in a short span, missing considerable time.

But yes, that's the guy I want to rely on next year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

dcwun

"Neither of those teams will beat Texas."


So if Haden or Arenas take away Shipley (a guy who'd be third string at UF), who does McCoy throw to?

I'll await your response while watching video of the gators pimp smackin' the buckeyes and sooners over the past couple of years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 1, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Man-Boobs should have taken over within 24 hours of Gibbs stepping down...no brainer there.

If he had failed miserably, guess what we'd be in the same situation we are now. But I think the last two seasons would have been better. No WCO switch for one.

Also if you don't think Grillimas will be motivated this week you got the sense of a madagascar hissing cockroach. These dudes have huge egos, and long memories. Plus he still know the personal basically.

See other coaches against Snyder games:

Norv w/Raiders
Marty w/Chargers

Norv basically cried....

Snyder inspires loathing....you want to punch him the face. Williams will be making a statement. Book it.


Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 1, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Skins930 just owned psps23

Posted by: OG_Barno | December 1, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

But regardless, none of that has anything to do with the fact that Colt Brennan couldn't win a back-up spot on the team, struggled to beat out Chase Daniel who was cut, and will be coming off hip surgery for the second time in a short span, missing considerable time.

But yes, that's the guy I want to rely on next year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2009 2:02 PM

What it has to do with is whether or not you are right. I do however agree with your argument.

And let's continue to overlook the fact that Colt was injured in camp last year which affected his play.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 1, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

If JC's smart he hightails it outta here, pronto there's' so much bull sh#t about JC on this blog it's unbelievable,actually the fact that some of you think Colt is better is reason enough for JC to seek greener pastures Dumb and Dummer have done everything they could to undermine the fan base faith in JC and from what i've read it's working from the Cutler/Sanchez sweepstakes this past offseason to the lack of providing adequate O-line protection for this kid after watching him get drilled time after time last season but still some of you question things like his IQ, to be truthfull sounds like borderline racism to me, just like when Doug was here but he'll be gone soon enough and i'm sure that will make a lot of you so called fans happy.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 1, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse


Campbell didn't play at all his rookie year.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I was off on the time frame, but it just reinforces our reluctance to start new talent.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 1, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Skins930 I can agree on the competition part, since there will be a new HC. However, if Colt is the starting QB on opening day, and the other QBs in training camp haven't been "tonya hardinged", the team will be in deep dire straits.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

So if Haden or Arenas take away Shipley (a guy who'd be third string at UF), who does McCoy throw to?

I'll await your response while watching video of the gators pimp smackin' the buckeyes and sooners over the past couple of years.


Posted by: MistaMoe

OK always chokes in the BCS game and the Buckeyes play in one of the worst major conferences around. If this game was played a year or 2 ago, I would give Florida the nod. Bama is solid defensively but outside of Ingram, they are average. The SEC isn't the SEC of old.

Bama or Florida won't have an answer for the best QB in the country. Running or passing, they will struggle to stop him.

Posted by: dcwun | December 1, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

beep 2x

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Get 'em ready Zorn. Get the black, maroon, and yellow ready to fight. I'm happy if they just show up and compete.

Posted by: coparker5 | December 1, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

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