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Gray Happy Here but Would Like to Move Up

Redskins secondary coach Jerry Gray interviewed for the vacant head coaching position in Detroit yesterday, flying back late last night after a day of meetings with ownership and team management. Gray, who interviewed for Houston's head coaching position three years ago, said that, while he very much enjoys his current position, he would like to move up the coaching ladder.

Gray, who has coached in the league for 12 years and was Buffalo's defensive coordinator before joining Washington's staff in 2006, said he has not been contacted by any other teams for coordinator or head coaching vacancies.

"If you do a good job in what you're doing, in your current job, and you have some ambition to be a coordinator or a head coach, then you hope that your work is recognized," Gray said.

Gray's teams consistently have been ranked among the best pass defenses in the NFL, and his players here have long raved about his abilities. Gray had a major role in setting the coverages and game plans for the secondary, with defensive coordinator Greg Blache's background heavy on the defensive line.

Gray said he was "surprised" the Lions contacted him, and did not "solicit" an interview or contact the team himself. He was enthused about the opportunity to help turn around the 0-16 Lions, and enjoyed the process Friday.

"It was a great experience," Gray said. "They've got a great facility there, really top of the line. They have some really good guys in personnel and there is a great history there with a lot of Hall of Famers. They are trying to find a way to get back to that level again."

The Lions will continue to go through their candidates - most of whom are on the defensive side of the ball, several are tied specifically to pass defense - and Gray is a former teammate of Lions GM Martin Mayhew. If he does not land the head coaching position, Gray could be in a line for a defensive coordinator position with Detroit. Several teams will be looking for coordinators once they name new head coaches, as well.

Correction/Update: DeWayne Walker, whom Gray replaced here, as been named head coach at New Mexico State after serving as the defensive coordinator at UCLA the past three years.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 3, 2009; 12:30 PM ET
 
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Comments

Let me be the FIRST to say that I hope we don't lose Jerry Gray, because he has done a lot for our secondary. But I think he will get a promotion in Detroit this year. And we will miss him if he leaves.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 3, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

How about we give the Lions Vinnie Cerrato and keep Jerry Gray. So far in his career Cerrato has ruined the 49rs and the Skins, why not make it a trifecta and add the Lions to his list?

Posted by: riggo56 | January 3, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Walker has been hired as the new head coach for New Mexico State. A quick Google search instead of waiting for an unnamed source to call you would have made this information readily available to you JLC. He was named on December 30. I've known about it since then; all I do is read a little about sports....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/dewayne-walker.html

Lots of other sources out there.

Posted by: mtenan | January 3, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I sure hope Gray does not leave us.....Blache most likely will retire after next season and Gray could step up at that time.

Blache has commented several times on his "excellent" staff, said they do the coaching and he just supervises - that they make him job easy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 3, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

How about we give the Lions Vinnie Cerrato and keep Jerry Gray. So far in his career Cerrato has ruined the 49rs and the Skins, why not make it a trifecta and add the Lions to his list?

Posted by: riggo56 | January 3, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I think Millen already did that - what else could Vinny do?

Posted by: az_david | January 3, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I think Millen already did that - what else could Vinny do?

Posted by: az_david | January 3, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse
He could sign 53 wide receivers, and at least 3 would be starters right from the get-go.

I recall Carlos Rogers having high praise for Gray. He said he had hardly any contact with Blache, but was very close to Gray. Maybe Blache could become Asst Head Coach - Defense, and Gray could become DC.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 3, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Now let me get this straight Zorn with no experience as a coordinator or coach for that matter gets a H/C position but Blatche,Gray and other coach's of a certain persuasion don't get a sniff, what's up with that?

Posted by: dargregmag | January 3, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

+Contest:

1. Jayson Taylor posts 13 sack season

2. London Fletcher named pro-bowl starter for first time in career for a season statistically less impressive than '08

3. Dan Snyder demotes Cerrato to ball-boy and promotes Morocco Brown to GM

4. Devin Thomas has breakout season, catches 75 balls for 1260 yds and 7TDs. Get named to pro-bowl.

5. Carlos Rogers has 7 interceptions on the year.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 3, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Well I wish the best for Jerry, and for selfish reasons, I hope he stays with the Skins.

However if I were Jerry Gray, I would not bank on what, Snyder Or Cerrato tells me and or promises.

Posted by: dashriprock | January 3, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Really hope we can keep him but gotta be happy for him if he does get a better offer. But let's be honest, our primary concerns are line help on both sides of the ball.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 3, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else like the way Fincher plays ball? The guy plays with abandon. His play style reminds me of Horton in that while he may not always be where he should be, he's always around the ball.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 3, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

got it ecale.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

How about we give the Lions Vinnie Cerrato and keep Jerry Gray. So far in his career Cerrato has ruined the 49rs and the Skins, why not make it a trifecta and add the Lions to his list?

Posted by: riggo56 | January 3, 2009 1:25 PM
=============================================
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!, that you would speak this way about the next V.P. of the U.S.A.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 3, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

+Contest:

1. Jayson Taylor posts 13 sack season

2. London Fletcher named pro-bowl starter for first time in career for a season statistically less impressive than '08

3. Dan Snyder demotes Cerrato to ball-boy and promotes Morocco Brown to GM

4. Devin Thomas has breakout season, catches 75 balls for 1260 yds and 7TDs. Get named to pro-bowl.

5. Carlos Rogers has 7 interceptions on the year.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 3, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Well, let's see...

1) Taylor doubtful to play for Skins next yr so assuming you mean for us, this one's out
2) Possible
3) No chance (much as we wish)
4) Think more likely Kelly has this type of year but possible
5) He can't catch the ball, so unlikely

I'll vote for #2

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 3, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I know honesty is discouraged in these matters, but the NFL has a policy that you must interview minority candidates. Detroit complied by interviewing Jerry Gray.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 3, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag, Blache did not want to be head coach - in fact, he wanted to retire - Snyder talked him out of it. I think if Blache had any desire to be our HC last season, Snyder would have named him such.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 3, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Notorious -- its for the contest

CONTEST: Make a statement that will be kind of true one year from now. The most outrageous statement that is in the ballpark, wins:

Example: Fassel named Skins HC. Jansen elected to Pro Bowl. La Canfora to replace Cerrato as Skins GM. etc

I'm collecting the statements (up to around 40-50 so far), post them and at this time next year, there will be a winner. Up to 5 statements per person.

Go for it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Contest:

Zorn uses play Obama designed, and it works for TD

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dargregmag | January 3, 2009 2:45 PM

Charles Barkley?

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 3, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Nixon designed a play that George Allen ran. It went for a loss.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Blame that TO on the coach because he put Ryan in position to fail. Why pass on first down? That's just dumb. Go with what got you here. Run. Run. Run it some more. If this game is to be won, it has to be with Turner's feet not Ryan's arm.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 3, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

wow great play

Posted by: chrislarry | January 3, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

wonder when we will have receivers to make catches like that...sigghhhh

Posted by: buddiee22 | January 3, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Pundit on uk tv just came up with same point re going with what got you to the dance, ie falcons need to run it. but does that mean they have to run on every single 1st down? if ryan is going to pass might as well get him to do it against the wrong D?

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | January 3, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Just to get back to the questions on Suggs (and for that matter Ray Lewis)...

Suggs is very good but to be honest at 260 and 6'3" he is just a better / younger version of Andre Carter - as such he is probably not worth the price tag for what would not be a huge upgrade, and I don't foresee him leaving anyway, plus Suggs would need to switch his position a bit. Also unless Redskins switch to 3-4 or get rid of Fletcher (don't, please) I don't see a LB role for either...my 2 cents

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 3, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Damn!!!! Why can't we try ONE flea flicker. That was a grat play. No way Satana Moss or ARE make that catch.....too little.

Posted by: rickyroge | January 3, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

This time last year Stephon Heyer was getting abused by Patrick Kerney.

Is Dansby a FA? He'd be a good signing and cheaper than a Haynesworth or Suggs. Then draft all OL and DL.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 3, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

+++How about we give the Lions Vinnie Cerrato and keep Jerry Gray. So far in his career Cerrato has ruined the 49rs and the Skins, why not make it a trifecta and add the Lions to his list?

Posted by: riggo56++++

Love the trade idea...but how do you "ruin" an already 0-16 team?

Posted by: TheCork | January 3, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

1. (late November/early December) - Zorn Taps Brennan To Start Against Dallas.

2. Malcom Kelly finishes season with 50+ catches and 8 TDs.

3. Chris Horton has 7 INTs and 2 FFs and makes the Pro Bowl.

4. Portis named league MVP.

5. Snyder indicted after an SEC investigation reveals stock manipulation re Six Flags Holdings; his ability to remain owner of the Washington Redskins looks dim.

There ya go, zcezcest1.

Obviously you know which one I'm hoping for.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 3, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

****** CONTEST (continued): Make a statement that will be kind of true one year from now. The most outrageous statement that is in the ballpark, wins:


Phillip Daniels is named comeback player of the year with 9.5 sacks and is then cut by Vinny Cerrato to make cap room for the uncapped season.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 3, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Jerry Gray should stay only to leave with the Skins in a better situation.

Then, he could choose to leave, particularly if the FO 'upgrades'-- (hint: pays him like he's a coordinator) or dangles the defensive coordinator job as an incentive to stay.

Again: the FO should move to keep Jerry.

Danny Smith, on the otherhand,...

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I hope Mr. Zorn is watching the Cardinal v. Falcons.

The receivers come into their breaks out of 'tight tripps' and 'bunch' formations where the hot guy is shielded by the other two.

The running action goes to the tight end side away from the formation grouping to keep the defense playing both sides of the offense-- if they don't, somebody is going to be open.

That's how Boldin got the long touchdown.

That's how you counter the press coverage that smothered Moss and Randle "Fair Catch" El all season.

I know it's 'trips' and 'bunch' formations are not pure WCO, but if our small receivers are going to get open, Zorn must use formation, 'rub offs' and design to hide the guy who's getting the ball.

Zorn says he's going to examine everything in the off season.

Hopefully, his own stubborn adherence to WCO principles is one of them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

What's going on with the Falcons?

Posted by: columbiard | January 3, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Contest:

1. Jason Campbell finishes the season with 4100 yards, 24 TDs, 7 INTs, a pro-bowl appearance, and the runner up for the MVP award.

2. Carlos Rogers finishes the season with 5 INTs and a pro-bowl appearance...for the Atlanta Falcons.

3. Vinny Cerrato will make a comparison between Devin Thomas and Antonio Bryant, saying you can't call a player a "bust" until 6 years down the road.

4. Antwaan Randle El returns 2 punts for TDs.

5. Shaun Suisham goes 29/31 on FGs and is named to the pro-bowl.

Posted by: psps23 | January 3, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

+++How about we give the Lions Vinnie Cerrato and keep Jerry Gray. So far in his career Cerrato has ruined the 49rs and the Skins, why not make it a trifecta and add the Lions to his list?

Posted by: riggo56++++

Love the trade idea...but how do you "ruin" an already 0-16 team?

Posted by: TheCork | January 3, 2009 6:31 PM

Good point, Cork. This would make both teams better. Cerrato could blow up the Lions and get them to 3-13. And the Redskins, with Snyder doing Cerrato's job, could get to 9-7.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 3, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

If he goes, will he please take vinny with him

Posted by: jmy999 | January 3, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Too much sniping in many of these previous posts (yesterday) - boring! Need to keep it on real sports topics.

Top Needs for Skins:

I'd love to have someone like Parcells running the show here. But since Vinnie's not going anywhere, we need some great scouts who can not only identify true NFL talent but also sell and convince Vinnie/Dan.

I think the top player acquisition needs are OL, DL and LB.

Take the best players period in the draft. Forget Kickers! Get a FA.

DL as is will not suffice unless you are ok with more of the same. Need a DL like the Giants as our goal. It'll take a while with the Skins track record.

Posted by: myPostId1000 | January 3, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Give Cerrato to the lions? Ok, I'm on board. What's the plan? Do we do it at night?

Seriously, sign the petition!

Posted by: columbiard | January 3, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

This Wild Card playoff game is a shame...

It should never have happened...

The way it's going, the Falcons will lose and be a better team for it next year...

The Cardinals will win, go East, and get beat like a bad child next weekend...

...it's like watching a nasty movie in slow motion...

...and in the next game, we get the 'we're past our prime' duo of John 'I Love Brett Favre Too Much' Madden and Al 'Do You Believe in Miracles?' Michaels.

BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will somebody press a button and fast forward us to the Senoir Bowl practices, the combine, and the draft-- please!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Love the trade idea...but how do you "ruin" an already 0-16 team?

Posted by: TheCork | January 3, 2009 6:31 PM

You'd think at some point people would stop underestimating Vinny.

Posted by: mack1 | January 3, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

3rd & 16 and Brookings jumps underneath instead of staying with Spach.

That's the game right there.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 3, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, sign the petition!

Posted by: columbiard | January 3, 2009 7:26 PM

How does this work? We sign the petition, you mail it to Dan Snyder, and voila! he replaces Vinnie?

Where else has this worked? How many NFL GM's or coaches have been replaced because the fans sent a petition to the owner?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 3, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will somebody press a button and fast forward us to the Senoir Bowl practices, the combine, and the draft-- please!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 7:29 PM

Senior Bowl practies? This is your idea of excitement? Please, let's just fast forward to opening day next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 3, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21,

You obviously understand what Chris Collingsworth didn't: the Cardinals had run so many running plays to the right side of their offense, the 'backer or safety to that side took the play action fake, and forgot about the tight-end.

Maybe the play is called: "40 fake, Y-post delay"

Maybe next year, we'll see Fred Davis getting the rock in that manner. With his size and speed, he'll crush anyone trying to tackle him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Who will be a head coach first? Jerry Gray or Gregg Williams (for a second try, that is)? Gregg's head coaching stock has plummeted as far as Six Flags, Citicorp or AIG. He's teetering on bankruptcy since that time a few years ago when there was a lot of interest but Dan Snyder gave him the big bucks to stay in DC.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 3, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator

I feel you, bro..

But as a Madden GM, I got to get my draft fix and some American League Baseball before I'm ready for some football.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Whatever TE, if you don't wanna do it, don't. It's just that it's a part of something. Or, rather, it could be. You never know. (Well, maybe YOU do, but usually we don't. Us mortals.)

Posted by: columbiard | January 3, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

The Supa Bowl...?

Pittsburgh 28, Carolina Panthers 17

There is no team in the AFC to challenge the Stillers...the Ravens are too young, the Dolphins lucky, and the Colts' D isn't strong enough to shut down Big Ben.

The Gints will continue to miss Plaxico and his mis-firing weapon of mass distraction...thus they lose the second time around at home to the Panthers.

The Iggles are like the teenager who encounters the drunken date: not ready to finish what they started.

The Vikings will decide to take Smoot's offer of a cruise, and realise they don't have the q-back.

The Pittsburgh Defense will win the Supa Bowl MVP-- it's the best performing unit in all of professional football this season.

It will be an ugly, hard hitting game.

But who would want it any other way?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

mistamoe, columbiard,

Nicely put -- both of you. The draft amounts to nothing but, yeah moe, when it's all you've got it's an oasis between here and opening day.

And, columbiard, good luck with your petition. I hope it works. If it does, you've done us all a great service. Your picture will go on the one-dollar bill.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 3, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

I like the speed and quickness Sproles brings to the game.

After releasing Randle "Fair Catch," I'd sign him...

...before signing the petition.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

I just got all settled in to watch the skins in the play-offs.

Oh thats right we wasted a top 5 defense on Zorn and Vinny. And now we are already looking at free-agency and the draft.

This team is wandering in the wilderness. Again.

I don't guess the NFL would have to beg us to sell out a home game though, with a great running back like Peterson.

Posted by: DownTownClown | January 3, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't guess the NFL would have to beg us to sell out a home game though, with a great running back like Peterson.

Posted by: DownTownClown +++

I'd like to beleive that, but after what happened at home against the Steelers, I'm not sure you can say that with any real certainty.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 3, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Taylor Mays, USC safety

I know the Skins team strength is the defensive secondary, but what an athlete. 6'3" tall and a sub 4.3 40. Paired with LL would make an awesome tandem.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 3, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

No, TE, YOURS will! OF course, and you know it.

Posted by: columbiard | January 3, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Had Sproles in FF. Every time he got more than 10 touches, he went double digits. Problem was, Norv. He only got doouble digit touches about 4 times. F Norv.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

drafting a safety would be folly

Posted by: chrislarry | January 3, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

drafting a safety would be folly

Posted by: chrislarry ++++

I agree, no doubt, but with VC and DS at the helm, I could see them drafting him if available.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 3, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Any thoughts as to who would replace Gray?

Posted by: Josh7 | January 3, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Could someone tell Frank Caliendo that John Madden acts just like him?

I still like Sproles.

The Skins could use the speed on punt returns and a change of pace to Portis and his practice habits.

He's got hands for dump offs and the screen game-- oops, there goes Betts out the window.

Zorn likes the occasional draw and flare route on 3rd and middlin' between the 40 yard lines...that's a play for Sproles.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

You would think Mel Gray would top the list...

Posted by: daggar | January 3, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Sproles rolls.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 3, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Happy for Sproles.

I didn't care who won that game, but I hate to see the officials give 3 first downs to the Chargers.

If what Madden/Michaels said all game was true - that Ron Winter's crew threw more flags than any other crew this season, then I can't understand why they're working a playoff game.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 3, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

2-0! it's good to be right once in a while.

ms. boren my picks:

chargers
cardinals
balmer
iggles

Posted by: dealer1 | January 2, 2009 3:18 PM

Posted by: dealer1 | January 3, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

MR21, those weren't exactly close calls. Each was a penalty. The issue was the Colts' discipline or lack thereof.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 3, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Sproles just earned himself $15-$20 million with that performance.

Posted by: psps23 | January 3, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

That's on the one hand, but on the other hand, which penalty would you say they should not have called?

They looked legitimate, to me.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 3, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I thought the holding on the DB shouldn't have been called. That was borderline within the 5-yard region of contact, and the spin-o-rama by Chambers was definitely embellished. That's the type of play that needs to be let go. And wasn't Rivers out of the pocket on that play?

Posted by: psps23 | January 3, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

If the DB had released him after the initial grab it may not have been called but he continued to hold and prevented the receiver from moving up field. On top of that, he was all over the guy when the ball was in the air.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 3, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

ummmm yeah...you can't blame the refs for this one. it seemed like colts were daring the refs to call penalties. that facemask penalty was a penalty. that holding was a penalty. the holding on db was actually a PI.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Just saw the replay, Rivers wasn't out of the pocket. However, the call was still very questionable. Sure, it could have been called (which it was), but that's also a play that probably happens 10 times a game. That needs to be let go in that situation. The Chargers were bailed out on that play.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Tonights game is a good example of why teams need to take care of business and not allow questionable calls to have an impact. If Colts could have converted on 3rd and 2 the game is over. However, for sudden death OT those were bad calls. The holding on the DB was nothing plus the ball wasn't catchable. And yes the LB did facemask but if you watch the reply you'll notice the lineman has his arm around the LBs neck wonder how they missed that?

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 4, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Is the Red Zone still on 980 or is it done for the season?

Here is what I would like someone to pose to Vinny: last year, you were excited about your draft strategy of taking the best player available. With Davis, Thomas, and Kelley, you were pleased with getting players that were so highly rated.

During the season, you repeatedly said that teams that draft for need instead of BPA are making a significant mistake, and will get tangled up or messed up or some quote like that.

So: let's say there is a big run on the highly rated OTs or DLs or whatever, but for some reason a high impact WR is available in the 1st round at 13. Do you take him? What about if the same is true in 3rd round with your next pick?

It seems to me that defending BPA with his last breath shows how defensive and inflexible VinnyDanny are - can you just admit for once that things didn't out as well as expected or mistakes are made. When asked about if he regretted any decisions, Vinny sounded like George Bush - he said he learned from each one of his mistakes, but he couldn't seem to recall or mention what any of those mistakes were right off the top of his head or explain what he had learned.

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 4, 2009 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Tony Dungy said something VERY CURIOUS today during his halftime interview w/ Al Michaels. Enjoy.

http://imjustlikemusiq.blogspot.com/2009/01/must-see-tony-dungy-wants-to-do-hands.html

Posted by: Imjustlikemusiq | January 4, 2009 2:19 AM | Report abuse

We had the worst Net Punting Average in the league (33.4)

And we even had an Aussie punter

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 30, 2008 12:06 AM


Huh? The only Aussie Punter I remember us having was David Lonie who only made the extended squad for the 2006 season, and was cut before pre-season started. Bit harsh blaming it on him!

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 5:23 AM | Report abuse

kost,

You're not shirking responsibility that easily, mate. Sure, he wasn't born in Australia, but that's just a technicality. He had watched Australian kickers on TV. He tried to drop the ball like an Australian kicker. And he drank a lot of Australian beer and wine. So, doesn't that make him an Aussie kicker?

If he'd had a better average, he'd be an American kicker.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

It seems to me that defending BPA with his last breath shows how defensive and inflexible VinnyDanny are - can you just admit for once that things didn't out as well as expected or mistakes are made. When asked about if he regretted any decisions, Vinny sounded like George Bush - he said he learned from each one of his mistakes, but he couldn't seem to recall or mention what any of those mistakes were right off the top of his head or explain what he had learned.

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 4, 2009 12:50 AM | Report abuse

What you have to remember is that there is a great deal of subjectivity in the ranking of players. And how do you rank a WR against a CB or DT? At some point, you have to say that some positions are more valuable than others for your team.

Now, having said that, you may have a WR rated as a top 5 pick in the draft, and if he is still available late in first round, you probably should take him.

But if you have 3 OT's that you think are the best in the draft, and think they should each go in top 10 picks, and one of them is available at #13, I think you take them over a WR rated in top 5. A little common sense is required to make good selections.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 4, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure everyone observed Larry Williams' catch last night for a TD. He had a CB and safety covering him, but was able to go high over them to catch ball.

This offseason, JC will need to work on his lobs. In the past, with small receivers, he has needed to fire his passes into Moss and ARE on a line. But with #11 & 12, we have two receivers built just like Williams. Those receivers need a different type of pass thrown to them.

And JZ is going to have to work a different set of passing routes, so that one basic defense like everyone used against us in the second half of the season will not be effective next year.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 4, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

On an unrelated note, of all the college backs I saw over the break, the one who looks like an NFC East caliber back is the guy from Iowa who got over 100 yards in every game this season. Don't remember his name ... something boring like Shawn Jones or something like that.

Knowshon Moreno is super duper, but I figure he'll be snapped up before the Skins pick.

So what did I miss while I was away? Is the Skins draft slot fixed yet?

Posted by: dcsween | January 4, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Also, is that San Diego punter a free agent?

Posted by: dcsween | January 4, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Toot my own horn alert:

I remember getting in many scraps during the coaching search about Russ Grimm. People bashed me for being on a nostalgia trip...yadda X 3...

My arguemnet was that his resume as a coach was very strong and that next offseason after he would be getting credit for being Wisenhut's right hand man in the Cardinals turnaround he would be again a name in the coaching mix.

I give you:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Jets-interview-Spagnuolo-Grimm-Jagodzinski-men?urn=nfl,132038

Also reported in NY Daily News...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan/Cowher/Big Show/Dungy

will be in DC in 2010, the 1st uncapped year.......

DCsween - Brooks could have been a contenda is what I am holding on to.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 4, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Tooting of your own horn is acceptable as long as someone remembers.

I remember you touting Grimm and I would agree. I just always saw that the timing in snyder's perspective (which is the only one that counts) wasn't the best.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 4, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I agree 4th....it was more the ignoramousess that were saying "no one wants Grimm, what has he ever done, he cant even improve the Cardinals..."

It was more to the general point that Grimm is a great HC canidate anywhere, and that he would be in the mix this time next year...which is now...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

+++Top Needs for Skins:

I'd love to have someone like Parcells running the show here. But since Vinnie's not going anywhere, we need some great scouts who can not only identify true NFL talent but also sell and convince Vinnie/Dan.+++--myPostid

Great idea, but one small problem. See Danny and Vinnie get to pick the scouts, just as they got to pick the coach, the FA's and the draftees. And they are clueless, hence the chance of the scouts working out are minimal....--CORK

+++Take the best players period in the draft. Forget Kickers! Get a FA.+++

Another small problem. Danny used that approach last year, and got three receivers who couldn't get on the field while other team's rookie receivers tore up the field.

+++DL as is will not suffice unless you are ok with more of the same. Need a DL like the Giants as our goal. It'll take a while with the Skins track record.+++

You are right in saying the DL needs to be addressed. So does the OL, the LBs, the kicking game....

Posted by: TheCork | January 4, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

+++Please, let's just fast forward to opening day next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator+++

What. are you nuts? Were you drioppd on your butterbean as a child?

I will posit to you, buster that the OFF SEASON is by far the BEST time of the year. It needs to be preserved and elongated by foot dragging and Super-Slomo and any other means necessary.

Think about it. Think how we dreamed that the terrific trio of receivers Vin drafted would tear up the league in 2008. That Tryon was the new DG, and Rinehart would be the next Boss Hog. Remember the speculation on great FA additions that might come the Redskin's way?

Remember when playoffs were a resonable hope , not a cruel mocking joke?

Remember when Zorn was the new Lombardi?

To paraphrase the outgoing President of the Newnitted States, the offseason is when "we put hope on our family."

Opening day is when "fooled me once we find that..I mean we... that is. don't get fooled again."

Dude, EMBRACE the offseason. The skins are undefeated in the offseason.

Posted by: TheCork | January 4, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

+++Taylor Mays, USC safety

I know the Skins team strength is the defensive secondary, but what an athlete. 6'3" tall and a sub 4.3 40. Paired with LL would make an awesome tandem.

Posted by: lsskinsfan+++

And would make tons of tackles of guys who got past the Redskins DL and LBs, where the needs are even greater…

On the other hand, Vinny might do better if he wrote on his draft list “Take next avavailable USC defensive player.”

Posted by: TheCork | January 4, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS

Atlanta’s Mike Smith edged Miami’s Tony Sparano by one vote Sunday for The Associated Press 2008 NFL Coach of the Year award.
Both coaches oversaw sensational turnarounds, leading their teams from last-place finishes in 2007 to playoff berths this year. Their achievements were reflected by the closeness of the balloting, with Smith getting 231/2 votes and Sparano 221/2 from a nationwide panel of 50 sports writers and broadcasters who cover the NFL.

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 4, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

cL, the sad truth is that no good coach wants to be here. that's how we ended up with zorny.

unfortunately grimm has a first hand experience working for snyder and cerrato. why would anyone want to go through that again. grimm had two chances to come back "home" and he made no push to get here. once when gibbs arrived and the other when gibbs 2.0 left.

grimm is a helluva coach, skins lines were always the best when he was coaching 'em. that was hogs 2.0 (if there ever will be) with tre, samuels and jansen.

and he's classy thus you never hear "grimm turns down interview with skins" like that idiot with NYG did last year.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I will posit to you, buster that the OFF SEASON is by far the BEST time of the year.

Remember when playoffs were a resonable hope , not a cruel mocking joke?

Remember when Zorn was the new Lombardi?

Posted by: TheCork | January 4, 2009 12:42 PM

I do remember, Cork, and it wasn't in the off season. That was at the midpoint when the 'Skins were 6-2.

During the offseason, Zorn was assumed to be keeping the seat warm for Cowher. At the halfway mark of the regular season, he wasn't the next Lombardi, but the next Zorn.

This offseason? More confusing than ever.
Peter King said last night that Zorn's keeping the seat warm for (a) Shanahan; (b) Holmgren; (c) Dunghy; or (d) Cowher. Kinda makes your head spin.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

that's saying a lot for the future of this franchise. why should they when there's 6 HC job openings per year in the nfl.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Is the Skins draft slot fixed yet?

Posted by: dcsween | January 4, 2009 11:23 AM

Lucky 13. But we may trade up or down. Stay tuned.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Well,anyone who watches the games can plainly see Rogers should learn to tackle with his hands,as his rolling body tackles are pathetic.

And, occasionally Rogers should look back for the pass as it usually bounces off his back or his helmet. He drops 5x more interceptions than he makes.

Let both Rogers and toast( Smoot...always getting burned) go!!!!go!!! They are the weakest links!!!!!

Posted by: passonfirstdown | January 4, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse


Anyone else like the way Fincher plays ball? The guy plays with abandon. His play style reminds me of Horton in that while he may not always be where he should be, he's always around the ball.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 3, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Fincher just seems like journeyman player... The Skins need a backup OLB who plays exceptional special teams, covers TEs, has speed, and is a hard hitter. Can Fincher be that guy?

LB was a major deficiency last year. The Skins defense works best when the LB and S can zone blitz. Last year they only contributed three sacks [McIntosh(2) and Horton(1)] and consistently failed to apply pressure to the QB. They also had trouble covering TEs and RBs; even with Horton(3), Landry(2), and McIntosh(1) making interceptions. LB speed was a big issue by the end of season...

MLB Fletcher has been excellent -- he should have been selected to the pro bowl this year. SLB Washington has been hurt for three seasons and was not an effective blitzer. He also had trouble covering TEs and RBs. McIntosh played well overall; although he needs to get better at blitzing and special team blocking. Blades was an effective backup LB, but he also has to play better on special teams. Both McIntosh and Fletcher wore down over the course of the season.

I would keep just Fletcher, McIntosh, and Blades. Then sign a starting SLB, backup WLB, special team LB, and draft a 3rd round OLB.

Posted by: siris | January 4, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Atlanta’s Mike Smith edged Miami’s Tony Sparano by one vote Sunday for The Associated Press 2008 NFL Coach of the Year award.
Both coaches oversaw sensational turnarounds, leading their teams from last-place finishes in 2007 to playoff berths this year. Their achievements were reflected by the closeness of the balloting, with Smith getting 231/2 votes and Sparano 221/2 from a nationwide panel of 50 sports writers and broadcasters who cover the NFL.

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 4, 2009 12:57 PM

Associated Press is a collection of print media guys, right? When was the vote held? Why would they vote while at least one of the teams is still in the playoffs? What if Sparano takes Miami to the Super Bowl? How foolish will Associated Press look?

Do something, Cindy, before it's too late!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

TE in all pro sports the regular season awards are based and voted on regular season.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

A few things from last night's Chargers/Colt game....

Did anyone notice LT did not look very happy after the game?

Also, Darren Sproles is a free agent....would love to get that little guy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Talent, I can do nothing more than report the results. The selection process for awards is sooo flawed...
Meanwhile, speaking of AP:


NEW YORK (AP) — Bill Cowher doesn’t plan to coach in the NFL next year, and will stay with CBS Sports as a studio analyst.
Cowher was recently wooed by the New York Jets, but said during “The NFL Today” on Sunday that he’s taking it “year to year.”
“It’s a privilege and an honor to be a head coach in the National Football League,” Cowher said. “And I have been flattered about the attention, but the timing right now is not right. I don’t plan on coaching next year.”
The Super-Bowl winning coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2006, Cowher took himself out of the running as a candidate for the Jets job on Dec. 30. He also was a candidate for the vacant Cleveland job, but asked to be taken off the list.
CBS Sports will broadcast the 2010 Super Bowl in Miami.

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 4, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

CL--Thanks, but I don't understand the logic of it. It makes as much sense to me as the way the BCS selects teams for college bowls. I would change them both. Maybe I should start a petition?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Also, Darren Sproles is a free agent....would love to get that little guy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 1:46 PM

If you put him behind this line he will have the same season that Rock Cartwright would have behind this line. (When you said you would love to get him, you meant for the team, right?)

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

I like the speed and quickness Sproles brings to the game.

After releasing Randle "Fair Catch," I'd sign him...

...before signing the petition.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 3, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

What do you mean by "Fair Catch" Randle El? He usually runs for at least 30 yards each punt return!!! Oh wait, I forgot that was from side line to side line and sometimes backwards.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 4, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Sproles is beast, however I would be shocked if SD lets him go. After letting Turner walk and the wear on LT I bet Chargers resign him.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Ed Reed...

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

is unreal!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Sproles is not a 16-game every down back like Turner but he is an explosive situational guy. He and Leon Washington are the same player.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I meant get Sproles for the Skins....not for myself. And I meant as a backup to CP - not to replace him. But of course he would not leave a contender like the Chargers to be a backup for a losing franchise :(

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Agreed LH...that is why Chargers would be dumb to let him go...b/c paired with LT that is a beast combo and lets Chargers extend LT's career.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"If you put him behind this line he will have the same season that Rock Cartwright would have behind this line. (When you said you would love to get him, you meant for the team, right?)

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Strongly, strongly disagree. Comparing Rock Cartwright to Darren Sproles would be like comparing Ladell Betts to Michael Turner (it's actually a worse comparison...at least Betts has had minimal success in this league).

Sproles is one of the few RBs in this league that can make plays even with sub-standard blocking in front of him. He can make players miss, something none of our current RBs are great at doing (even Portis). He wouldn't last as an everydown back, but as a 10-touch a game player, he would be perfect for this offense. There's one home-run hitter on offense right now, Sproles would double that threat.

My only concern is how much money he would cost.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Strongly, strongly disagree. Comparing Rock Cartwright to Darren Sproles would be like comparing Ladell Betts to Michael Turner (it's actually a worse comparison...at least Betts has had minimal success in this league).

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 2:25 PM |

The comment is about the Redskins O Line, not about the runners.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

psp,

Thats the problem Portis would cry if you gave another back 10 or more carries a game.

Until Zorn is given control of Portis, there is no need to bring a second back in because they will not be used properly.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 4, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

ravens defense is ridiculous....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Flound, I didn't say 10 carries, I said 10 touches. Portis wouldn't care as long as the touches are effective. It's when an offense puts up 150 total yards on offense with Portis on the bench that he has the problem. He didn't say anything to Gibbs when Gibbs was attempting to split carries between him and Betts.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

ravens defense is ridiculous....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 2:52 PM

And Miami's defense looks like they're really missing Jason Taylor. I'll bet Parcells is kicking himself for letting Taylor go for only a second rounder. He'll probably never do business with Vinny again after Vinny made a monkey out of him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Watching the Ravens play makes me even more infuriated with Snyderrato; These boobs have chased 'schemes' for 10 years, when, as I've always said, IT'S THE PLAYERS.

The Ravens don't run some fancy scheme; if their offense doesn't look like Joe Gibbs 1.0 then I'm blind. THEY HAVE THE PLAYERS TO MAKE IT WORK, whereas the 'Skins haven't had the players to make ANYTHING work.

You draft a big armed, Rothlesberger/Manning-type qb, but bring in a West Coast offense guy; will Zorn adapt to his talent, or screw everything up by trying to turn JC into something he's not?

If the next 2 years don't produce results, every true Redskin fan should demand Cerrato's head on a platter. To make Snyder feel the pain, don't buy 'Skins gear, don't watch his TV shows. As long as this team remains profitable being mediocre at best Snyder will never change.

Posted by: pdfordiii | January 4, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Reed is a joke, that guy is awesome best saftey in the league by a wide margin.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 4, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Reed will go down as the greatest playmaking safety ever. Not hardest hitting, but as a playmaker, nobody will match him.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

There's one home-run hitter on offense right now, Sproles would double that threat.

To which Redskin player are you referring?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: pdfordiii | January 4, 2009 3:06 PM

One good thing, if the Skins are terrible this year Zorn and Ceratto should both be gone. That is the only way Snyder will be able to get a Cowher/Shanahan/Holmgren type coach. Those guys are all too stand up to work with a clown like Vinny. No way Dungy will be coaching anywhere else if he quits the Colts. He wants to get into his ministry work and what not.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

To which Redskin player are you referring?

Posted by: learnedhand1


Moss of course. Unfortunately his home-run hitting ability is hampered by running 5 yard comebacks and outs 90% of the game.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Rookie receivers are worthless. Look at this guy Bess. He sucks.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

What I've noticed from this weekends game is the amount of creativity all these offenses have. The skins have to get less predictable, and start using the talent and strenghts of the players they have on offense.

Posted by: TWISI | January 4, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Bess is garbage. I guess a swing pass route like that is too hard for Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly to learn.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

One good thing, if the Skins are terrible this year Zorn and Ceratto should both be gone. That is the only way Snyder will be able to get a Cowher/Shanahan/Holmgren type coach.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 3:17 PM

This is probably true, but it is still possible for Vinny to have a good year and for Zorn to have a bad one. What Vinny needs is for this year's draft class to mature quickly next year and for next year's to have a better first year than this year's had. Also, a few good grabs in free agency.

Now, I don't think Vinny can do it, but who knows?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Ravens took more shots deep in that 3 and out than the Skins took all year. It is very frustrating watching other offenses.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Ravens took more shots deep in that 3 and out than the Skins took all year. It is very frustrating watching other offenses.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 3:28 PM

But they didn't complete any of the deep passes. And the Dolphins just got a first down on a Redskins play -- a three-yard dump off. Difference was the receiver got six yards after the catch.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Ravens took more shots deep in that 3 and out than the Skins took all year. It is very frustrating watching other offenses.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 3:28 PM

Nice end-around to Ginn. That's out of the 'Skins playbook, too.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Ceratto could have another bad year and still not get canned. It will come down to Snyder deciding if he wants to have a stable franchise or fill his constant need to be in a decision making position with personnel.

Did the Fins hire Al Saunders? That was terrible.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Ceratto could have another bad year and still not get canned. It will come down to Snyder deciding if he wants to have a stable franchise or fill his constant need to be in a decision making position with personnel.

Did the Fins hire Al Saunders? That was terrible.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 3:38 PM

Snyder did buy the team so that he could be a Playuh. But I believe that he wants to be a winner even more and that he's tired of being a laughing stock. But then I'm not convinced that he has a, uh, how should I put this, "well integrated personality."

Did the fins hire Saunders? Is that a question? I don't know, but Saunders had a long string of successful offenses before he came to DC. I can't believe that he has completely lost it. And if Parcells hired him, then he probably still has it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"This is probably true, but it is still possible for Vinny to have a good year and for Zorn to have a bad one."

Vinny hired Zorn. And Vinny decided to keep Zorn. So no, it's not possible. If Zorn fails, Vinny fails.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Vinny hired Zorn. And Vinny decided to keep Zorn. So no, it's not possible. If Zorn fails, Vinny fails.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 3:49 PM

His sucess is not defined solely by Zorn's record.

If Vinny's receivers from this year put up big numbers next year, if Chad Rinehart gets on the field and plays well, if Vinny's #13 pick is rookie of the year (probably a receiver), etc. Then everyone -- except Cork -- will agree that Vinny had a good year.

Similarly, Zorn can have a good year and Vinny can have a bad one.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Did the fins hire Saunders? Is that a question? I don't know, but Saunders had a long string of successful offenses before he came to DC. I can't believe that he has completely lost it. And if Parcells hired him, then he probably still has it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 3:44 PM

Never mind. Duh.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

His sucess is not defined solely by Zorn's record.

If Vinny's receivers from this year put up big numbers next year, if Chad Rinehart gets on the field and plays well, if Vinny's #13 pick is rookie of the year (probably a receiver), etc. Then everyone -- except Cork -- will agree that Vinny had a good year.

Similarly, Zorn can have a good year and Vinny can have a bad one.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

---------

I disagree. All that will reaffirm is what I already knew; Vinny is a good judge of talent. I've said so before, and I believe it now. That is, however, the ONLY redeeming quality he has.

What he is NOT is a good general manager (right now). He does not have sound philosophy when it comes to acquiring talent, drafting players, deciding which players should get extensions and which are expendable, figuring out what pieces fit best for this team, and figuring out what offense best suits the pieces we have. And if he has a shot at acquiring Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan and opts to keep Zorn instead, then you'd better bet that his success rides on the success of Zorn (unless he has the plan of wooing them in 2010).

Being a general manager rides on a LOT more than whether or not the guys we draft end up being good players.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Just curious if eagles win would that mean I was right 4 times or just once? Because they were part of a package. Lh, if we were bettin people we woulda made a lot of money.

Ohh hush and let me gloat!

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

All that will reaffirm is what I already knew; Vinny is a good judge of talent. I've said so before, and I believe it now.

If you don't mind, please provide the basis for this belief. I want to believe too.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Make that me too...we've been longing to believe for a decade...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

If you don't mind, please provide the basis for this belief. I want to believe too.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 4:17 PM

Or at least the name of a medication that will make me have the same feeling.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

yea, i'd love to know what that comment is based on too. and I agree with talent that Vinny/Zorn's success/failure is not intrinsically 100% linked

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Vinny must do all in his power to get Rey Maualuga.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 4:21 PM

I would have said he should do all in his power to get Erin Andrews.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

If you don't mind, please provide the basis for this belief. I want to believe too.

Posted by: learnedhand1
---------

The talent itself on this roster is not the problem. It's the combination of injury-prone players, older players, lopsided depth on certain positions, and certain players not fitting the scheme.

Most of the usual suspects for complaints on this roster have been very good for this team at one point or another (Washington, Carter, Springs, Griffin, Portis, Moss, Randle El as a 3rd receiver, etc.). These guys aren't struggling because of a lack of talent. They're struggling because too many of them are either old, injury-prone, or don't fit this scheme. And the team is struggling because the FO has banked way too much on these guys lasting the whole season and not bracing with adequate depth.

It's not Vinny's ability to judge talent. It's his ability to do everything else.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

First, Vinny is not responsible for those players being here. Second, and probably most importantly, Vinny doesn't get credit for picking up FAs who had already demonstrated they could play in the NFL. That's not talent evaluation.

What else you got?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 4, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Many on this blog have already made the point I have been making. Many of these teams go three deep in a game at the RB position. What Gibbs and Zorn had in common was Clinton Portis. As long as Portis is used as a smashmouth between the tackles back, this offense will sputter, especially with this O-Line.

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Plus, most of the early draft picks that Vinny has been a part of have been very talented and have worked in this league. The only draft where Vinny wasn't a part of was Rod Gardner's (2001). Other than that, he was a part of the Champ Bailey, Jon Jansen, Chris Samuels, Lavar Arrington, Derrick Dockerry, Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Laron Landry, and Rocky Macintosh drafts. The only busts within the 1st 3 rounds that Vinny has been a part of are Patrick Ramsey (1st round), Taylor Jacobs (2nd round), and Rashad Bouman (3rd round). I truly do think he has an eye for talent. Just not an eye for how to put a team together.

BTW, I can't believe I'm actually defending him....

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

First, Vinny is not responsible for those players being here. Second, and probably most importantly, Vinny doesn't get credit for picking up FAs who had already demonstrated they could play in the NFL. That's not talent evaluation.

What else you got?

Posted by: learnedhand1


--------

If he's not responsible for them being here, then he's not responsible for the majority of the makeup of this roster. If you blame him for one, you've got to keep him accountable for the other.

Second, a lot of these guys were either smaller names or considered borderline "busts" (like Griffin or Moss). Portis was the only real big name that came here "proven".

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

For the love of God, can someone please get Brad Childress a toupee?????

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Andy Reid looks scary......he has grown a beard and with his girth he looks menacing.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

ESPN's Todd McShay has his first Mock Draft up.

He has us taking Michael Oher OT, Mississippi.

6'5" 330lbs

Dec 3 Archive Blog - There are times when Oher is flat-out dominant. There are other times, though, when he is beaten by a clearly inferior opponent. That inconsistency is maddening and makes it difficult for a scout to stamp Oher with a high grade. While he possesses the physical tools to warrant top-15 consideration, it will be interesting to see if he slips to the bottom half of the first round -- or beyond -- because of concerns regarding his work ethic, motor and overall toughness.

Production - 1 - Has started 34 consecutive games during his first three seasons (2005-'07), including the last 24 games at left tackle

Height/Weight/Speed - 3 - Height and top-end speed are adequate but not ideal for the OT position. Is well-proportioned for his frame

Durability - 1 - Has not missed a game through his first three seasons (2005-'07) at Mississippi

Character - 2 - 'The Blind Side: The Evolution of a Game' is a best-selling book that chronicles the life story of Oher, who grew up as one of 13 children of a drug-addicted mother and had limited formal education prior to signing with Ole Miss in 2005

Strength/Toughness - 1 - A well-proportioned OT with strong arms and hands. Outstanding lower-body strength, as well. Flashes a mean streak

Agility - 3 - Shows adequate initial quickness when moving forward. Plays with adequate leverage and stays balanced. However, he is not an elite athlete for the position. The more space he's in the less effective his play becomes

Awareness - 3 - Has great experience at college football's highest level but he's still a work in progress. Generally knows his assignments but will be late picking up the blitz at times. Occasionally seems to be thinking rather than reacting

Pass Protection - 2 - Uses long arms and strong hands to force rushers wide. Plays with a wide base and is very effective anchoring versus the bull rush. Occasionally mixes in a very effective cut-block. However, he lacks ideal quickness in his deep set and will have trouble versus elite speed rushers in the NFL.

Run Blocking - 1 - Is thickly built with a wide base. Takes solid angles and wins nearly every battle once locked on. Works to sustain; drives his legs and generally gets a good surge. Range as a second-level blocker is adequate but not ideal

Scale - 1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

because of concerns regarding his work ethic, motor and overall toughness.

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like Vinny's kind of prospect. Hopefully he has bad knees too. Then we will definitely take him.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I'd really like to see us get Micheal Johnson - DE - Georgia Tech. Dude is freakishly talented with a ton of upside, he should be a 10+ sack staple for years. Oher would be solid too but guys with motor questions worry me. Eugene Monroe from UVA would also add desperately needed youth at OT. Either way, round 1 needs to be spent solidifying the lines. If we can trade back to the 17-20 range, pick up a 3rd rounder, and still get O/D line help, that would be phenomenal.

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | January 4, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I dont think Oher will last till 13th...

Read tHE blind Side and than question the dudes motor....kid has overcome what would crush most people...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

kost, I watched him in the Cotton Bowl and he looked very good. Also an interesting story as your post alluded to - his adoptive parents were interviewed. I'd love to get him...but I'm also leaning D-lineman in the first round or trade down. There will be quality linemen available in 2nd/3rd rds - if we can get a 2nd and a 3rd for the #13, I say we do it unless someone is too good to pass up (like a great punter or another WR)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm collecting the statements (up to around 40-50 so far), post them and at this time next year, there will be a winner. Up to 5 statements per person.

Go for it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 3, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

you still collecting entrants? If so I'll try to cook up some doozies

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I'd really like to see us get Micheal Johnson - DE - Georgia Tech. Dude is freakishly talented with a ton of upside, he should be a 10+ sack staple for years. Oher would be solid too but guys with motor questions worry me. Eugene Monroe from UVA would also add desperately needed youth at OT. Either way, round 1 needs to be spent solidifying the lines. If we can trade back to the 17-20 range, pick up a 3rd rounder, and still get O/D line help, that would be phenomenal.

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | January 4, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

wel said (written) Fuzzy, but isn't he projected in the Top 10? I'd love to trade down 5-8 spots and pick up a 3rd rounder but that seems to clever/logical for Cabanna Boy...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

CL, he seems to be rated as the 4th best OT in the draft, behing Andre Smith (Alabama), Eugene Monroe (Virginia) and Jason Smith (Baylor), so there's probably a chance he lasts, if not you'd think at least one of those guys will be.

You've read the book?

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, and Michael Oher are all gone in the first 10 picks.

Walter Cherepinsky, folks. He's smart, and funny!

40. Oakland Raiders: Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
JaMarcus Russell desperately needs some talent at receiver to work with. So, let's use the Al Davis method of scouting to find a wideout for Oakland.

Shall we look at game film? No way! There are virgins who need to be sacrificed! Shall we check out how the receivers run their routes? Should we interview them to make sure they have high character? What are you, crazy?

No, let's just look at the 40 times because 40 times are so important. Oh, wow! This Darrius Heyward-Bey character runs a low 4.3, and he's big too! He's going to be the greatest receiver of all time! Let's draft him, and toast our selection with a glass of goat blood!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

wel said (written) Fuzzy, but isn't he projected in the Top 10? I'd love to trade down 5-8 spots and pick up a 3rd rounder but that seems to clever/logical for Cabanna Boy...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 5:48 PM

Are you referring to the guy who traded down last year and picked up an extra second? Why is it "clever" when you propose it, but not when he does it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Technically he didn't pick up anything extra. We traded 3 picks for 3 picks. Only thing that changed was where we were able to use those picks.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

For the love of God, can someone please get Brad Childress a toupee?????

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Andy Reid looks scary......he has grown a beard and with his girth he looks menacing.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse


I'm thinking we can make both these fine regulars happy with a simple operation: transplant Andy Reid's beard to Brad Childress's dome.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

kost...i have read the book...its great...all football fans should read it.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 4, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

The only time Andy Reid looks scary is when you've just taken the last hamburger off the grill.

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Thanks T_E...I feel better now. At least give the guy a hat.

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

I sure hope a worthy DT or OT is available at #13 - and they don't reach. My consolation would be a LB. I really think DT is greatest concern. We need someone who can just crush the middle!

Taylor Mays from USC sounds tempting but I naturally say no because I think we have greater needs elsewhere. However, if he's the best on the board and still on the board, take him. Not sure I trust Vinnie's board though...

Posted by: myPostId1000 | January 4, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Minnesota looks a lot like our Skins. Offense runs through a premier RB....run sets up the pass..young QB...

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I think the Skins will trade out of the 13th pick for more picks.

(Why the hell am I talking about this?)...Depressing....No Skins, Wizards stink, Caps are good but can't follow hockey, Georgetown lost, Maryland's no good..

Posted by: rickyroge | January 4, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

You gotta follow hockey... it's the only way to make sure this isn't the 90's!

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

I sure hope a worthy DT or OT is available at #13 - and they don't reach. My consolation would be a LB. I really think DT is greatest concern. We need someone who can just crush the middle!

Taylor Mays from USC sounds tempting but I naturally say no because I think we have greater needs elsewhere. However, if he's the best on the board and still on the board, take him. Not sure I trust Vinnie's board though...


Posted by: myPostId1000


On 3 sentiments -- that the FO doesn't "reach", the LB being a consolation, and if Taylor Mays is "the best on the board" -- I wholeheartedly disagree.

The Redskins need to take a d-lineman or an o-lineman. Those should be the only 2 options. Everything else should be crossed off the boards completely. Any other selection, no matter how talented the guy is, would highlight why Vinny Cerrato doesn't have the chops to build a team. Until he realizes that teams are more than just a collection of talent, we will continue to dwell in mediocrity.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

psps23- I know what you're saying, but I would prefer them to use the 1st Round pick on a Linebacker who will start and make an immediate difference, than reach on a lineman who will only play backup in year 1. Obviously though I'd prefer a Lineman who will start and make an immediate difference.

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Kost, if the LB is a true impact, pass-rushing LB (like the next coming of Lawrence Taylor), then I'd say okay. If not, then it'll be a poor choice.

I kind of view LBs like I do RBs. A vast majority are only truly effective when they have a good line in front of them. Until we address the defensive line, changing out the LBs will only have a marginal effect. I'll take a good DE/DT over a great LB any day of the week.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I guess I can agree with that. With pick #13, I don't think we'll have any trouble having a quality lineman available to us, and we can only hope that Vinny won't go WR on us.

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

This SUCKS! An Eagles team we beat TWICE is going on to the next round.

As I mentioned last week, the Eagles will go to and win the Super Bowl.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 4, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I would've loved to have broken the bank with Jared Allen!!!!!!!!

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | January 4, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

kost, we have an offensive line that (currently) ranges from age 31 to 35.

And they couldn't do the job this year.

Why do you think an impact linebacker is the thing we need? Do you think having an even older variation of the O.L. that couldn't do the job this year will take us into the Super Bowl?

Part 2: Take a linebacker with the first pick: just when do you propose to begin fixing this O.L.? It is five guys, you know (and not burgers and fries).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 7:31 PM | Report abuse

PSPP - I think we are in agreement. I said DT is the highest priority to "crush the middle". Next is OT (not OG unless he is Hutchinson).

Only if DT and OT do not have someone available worthy of #13 do I say go for another position. I'd hate to see a Safety picked there... but would rather see someone who can produce at a pro-bowl level than to bust on a Bobby Slater like DT or a Tony Mandarich OT.

You can't just be blinded by need in the draft or you'll be a loser.

Posted by: myPostId1000 | January 4, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya, I want the first round and second round picks to be Off/Def linemen, I think those are our greatest areas of concern. I'm just saying that if the first 12 picks of the draft are linemen heavy, THEN taking an impact LB over a lineman who has a 3rd Rnd grade would make more sense to me. I don't think or want that to happen though. In fact if the OT's run dry early, I could see us grabbing a OG like Duke Robinson. I just don't think we should absolutley rule out taking a LB in the same way we should a QB or WR.

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

YES, Jared Allen would have been great! Need some monster DTs to go along with our DEs. Golston and Montgomery are serviceable but do not really explode up the middle. Griffin was great, but no longer.

Posted by: myPostId1000 | January 4, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

The Eagles blow. Pick return and screen pass for TD's and going against Tavaris Jackson. He is the worst starting QB in the league. They'll lose next week.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 4, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

"I want the first round and second round picks"

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 7:40 PM

Meant 3rd Round

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

I want the first round and second round picks to be Off/Def linemen

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 7:40 PM

Second round pick? We already made that pick. His name is Jason Taylor.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

So if 12 OL are taken with the first 12 picks, we should take #13 OL on our chart, even if we've scouted someone like Curry and project him as a consistent pro-bowl/HOF prospect?
I'm up for fixing a bunch of different things this offseason. OL is one of them. But if I'm Vinnie [and thank god I'm not, I live for your adulation], my job is to come up with a list of the 400 best prospects. There aren't that many OL/DL in the draft, so I'll probably have to extend myself and look at other positions. LB is one of them. And for the right one, in the right circumstance, it might be #13.

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

So if 12 OL are taken with the first 12 picks, we should take #13 OL on our chart, even if we've scouted someone like Curry and project him as a consistent pro-bowl/HOF prospect?

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 7:45 PM

This is SO mixed up by a guy who can't even spell his name correctly. Look, daggEr, the 13th offensive lineman is actually the number one guy on our scouting report. Best player available. We have to take him and we're dancing in triumph that none of the other teams went for him. Sort of like our victory lap when we picked Justin Tryon.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

So if 12 OL are taken with the first 12 picks, we should take #13 OL on our chart, even if we've scouted someone like Curry and project him as a consistent pro-bowl/HOF prospect?
....
There aren't that many OL/DL in the draft, so I'll probably have to extend myself and look at other positions. LB is one of them. And for the right one, in the right circumstance, it might be #13.
===========================================
1) Not gonna happen.
2) This year is rich in O.L. talent, just when that's what we need. (Actually, if we had a competent front office, we wouldn't be quite so needy. But here we are.)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Again: having a 'field-flipper' is a major advantage for any offense.

The Skins don't have one.

League-wide, there's: Bush, Westbrook, Cribbs, Sproles, Felix Jones, Hester, Steve Slaton.

Again: the Skins don't have a player who can change the game with a punt return or a slant taken upfield for yardage.

I know: Moss-- but teams roll their coverage his way to render him ineffective.

Both Brian Westbrook and Darren Sproles have the jitterbug-like speed needed to 'take it to the house' whenever a crease developes-- these guys both dragged their teams deeper into the playoffs.

And if you notice, the plays they get yardage on don't require massive amounts of time for the q-back--just quick hitting screens/outs/draws-- so much for the 'we need linemen' argument.

I know the Skins need lineman, but
Percy Harvin-UF, Jacoby Ford-Clemson are both those kind of players.

I'd take either one of them-- after I drafted a monster right tackle.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

In the 2007 draft the Redskins had the sixth pick and chose Laron Landry. Minnesota had the seventh pick and chose Adrian Peterson. With 20-20 hindsight, the Best Player Available was Adrian Peterson. How would peeps feel today if we'd chosen him? (Clinton Portis is not a "peep.")

It was pretty clear that Minnesota would choose Peterson. So, why didn't other teams offer the Redskins more to trade with them and pick ahead of Minnesota?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

This is SO mixed up by a guy who can't even spell his name correctly.
It's the dutch spelling, which doesn't endear me to Cindy but is otherwise a lot of fun.

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

And if you notice, the plays they get yardage on don't require massive amounts of time for the q-back--just quick hitting screens/outs/draws-- so much for the 'we need linemen' argument.

So we're going to replace those 5 offensive linemen with receivers and running backs?

Did I mention the gentlemen on our O.L. were 31-35 years old this year, and also that they failed in a rather spectacular fashion?

I know, if we draft the best linebacker ever, we don't even need an O.L.!!!one11!!!

I realize this all hypothetical, because Vinnie and Danny are gonna do whatever it is Vinnie and Danny wanna do.

But as long as we're entertaining ourselves on the R.I., let's try to raise our game.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Did I mention the gentlemen on our O.L. were 31-35 years old this year, and also that they failed in a rather spectacular fashion?

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:06 PM

The sad part is that their failure was not spectacular but mundane. They just couldn't do their jobs. Boring.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

With 20-20 hindsight, the Best Player Available was Adrian Peterson.
Is that from the Mel Kiper master list, the modified-aboriginal two-tier "draftreporterz.com" mock, or the ever-popular 'weighted average of the top five thousand mock sites' metric?

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

but would rather see someone who can produce at a pro-bowl level than to bust on a Bobby Slater like DT or a Tony Mandarich OT.

You can't just be blinded by need in the draft or you'll be a loser.


Posted by: myPostId1000

--------

Only way this would be a viable strategy is if you could evaluate with extreme accuracy who would be a "pro-bowl level" talent.

No general manager or front office in the league can do this. Everyone makes mistakes on a regular basis.

What you can't be blinded by is "best player available." That is the most sure-fire way to fail in building a team. Most of the time, you won't be able to determine who actually is the "best player" available. At least if you draft for need, you're giving your draftee the best opportunity to succeed with your team. Using your strategy is how teams end up drafting Fred Davis in the 2nd round when they have Chris Cooley in front of him.

The only realistic time drafting BPA should be used is when you don't have a true "need" and can afford to take a risk. Otherwise, you're just priming yourself for disappointment.

There's a reason why the Redskins are disappointing right now despite having 4 pro-bowlers (Portis, Cooley, Sellers, Samuels), 6 former pro-bowlers (Springs, Washington, Taylor, Hall, Moss, Albright), and 2 other guys that surely play at a pro-bowl level (Fletcher, Landry). The Redskins are not built with a team identity. All that talent, no plan to put it to use.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

The killer about the Peterson selection for today, though, is that the team with the power running back and strong o-line lost.

Two teams with the accurate q-backs and speed guys--San Diego/Philadelphia-- won.

Not only do the Skins lack a speed guy, they also don't have an accurate q-back.

As bad as Tavaris Jackson is, I didn't see a bunch of overthrows, bounced passes, or multiple balls where the receiver had to adjust his body to make a catch...

...so what does that say about Jason Campbell?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

As Jimmy Neutron would say, "What is the standard for scientific proof on these extra-credit reports?"

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Is that from the Mel Kiper master list, the modified-aboriginal two-tier "draftreporterz.com" mock, or the ever-popular 'weighted average of the top five thousand mock sites' metric?

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 8:09 PM

No, it's from the JLC School of Football Analysis. You look at who's doing the best today and assert that it was obvious, two years ago, that they were the best available. You got problems with that?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

...so what does that say about Jason Campbell?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 8:11 PM

Probably that he'd be a better QB if he could play behind Minnesota's line that the Redskins' line.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

The sad part is that their failure was not spectacular but mundane. They just couldn't do their jobs. Boring.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse
============================================
I feel that the failure from the Steeler game, though the 2nd Giant game, and even into the 2nd Cowgirl game (which we shoulda coulda won, but by then even the Cowgirls knew we couldn't stop a blitz) was not boring, but tragic.

Perhaps I'm being too emo.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Just read the Scout.com Mock Draft.

#13 Washington - OT Jason Smith, Baylor.

"Now that (Everette) Brown and (Brian) Orakpo are off the board, the Redskins won't reach for Michael Johnson. With that said they will turn their attention to the O-Line and select Smith."

Posted by: kost52 | January 4, 2009 8:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, Mr. ifthethunderdontgetya,

(I hope I got all of that right)

In the playoff rounds of any sport, teams with specific advantages tend to move on.

No one is suggesting the Skins make the oddly assumed personnel arrangment you tendered.

It's just that what my post stated is true: the Skins' offense is just plain bad and lacks dynamic speed.

And besides,...

The role of the Madden GM is to offer hairbrained solutions to obvious problems.

And if the brainless are confused by them, well, then that's their problem.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunder...I think you and I have different standards for what constitutes a tragedy. George Bush was a tragedy. The financial crisis was tragic. But the second half of the 'Skins season was just incompetence, starting with Gibbs, then Vinny and extending below to a few of the players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

It's just that what my post stated is true: the Skins' offense is just plain bad and lacks dynamic speed.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I half-way agree with this.

The Skins' real problem is their offense doesn't match their personnel. More specifically, their playcalling doesn't match their personnel.

All San Diego has is Sproles. Jackson, Chambers, and Gates are all possession guys. Tomlinson is a slightly better version of Portis at his age. The difference is that Norv, for all the intangibles he lacks, knows how to put a playmaker in a position to make plays.

If we had a creative offense, Moss would be more than enough as a gamebreaker. The offense is more frustrating to watch than purely "bad" as you call it.

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Moe--I think it's hare-brained. As in "dumb as a rabbit" not "dumb as a box of hair." But, that's a nice twist.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Two teams with the accurate q-backs and speed guys--San Diego/Philadelphia-- won.

Not only do the Skins lack a speed guy, they also don't have an accurate q-back.

As bad as Tavaris Jackson is, I didn't see a bunch of overthrows, bounced passes, or multiple balls where the receiver had to adjust his body to make a catch...

Posted by: MistaMoe

--------

Did you just infer that Donovan Mcnabb is an accurate QB that doesn't throw a bunch of overthrows, bounced passes, or balls where receivers have to adjust to catch them?

Am I losing my mind?

Posted by: psps23 | January 4, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

I've heard the name Michael Johnson being drafted at #13 far too often for my liking. If ever there was a reach pick, it is him. I watch him play against Coirn Black of LSU whose projected as a late first, second round pick, and Johnson was getting man handled. Johnson can rush the passer, from what I've read, but he'll have to really bulk up to play against the run in his rookie year.

Posted by: TWISI | January 4, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

As bad as Tavaris Jackson is, I didn't see a bunch of overthrows, bounced passes, or multiple balls where the receiver had to adjust his body to make a catch...

Posted by: MistaMoe

Did you watch Tavaris early this year before his benching?

Posted by: TWISI | January 4, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

And if the brainless are confused by them, well, then that's their problem.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse
=============================================
I'm just glad that you didn't call me hairless.

And oh by the way, I did use to have a pet rabbit. I found him trying to cross Nebraska Avenue on my way to Junior H.S. back in the 1970s.
/personal vignette

P.S. Early 1970s.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm just glad that you didn't call me hairless.

And oh by the way, I did use to have a pet rabbit.

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:47 PM

But the rabbit's gone and now you're hareless? Better than being bald, I guess, like Brad Childress.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Yep. I'm hareless.

He was a Great American, though. You could ask my dad (not all of our pets achieved "Great American" status).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

If anything the redskins should take from the chargers game is that those tiny speed backs kill defenses....and no offense to betts but sproles could run by laughing the whole way.....we need to find a guy like sproles late in the draft

Posted by: hillb03 | January 4, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

not all of our pets achieved "Great American" status
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 4, 2009 8:58 PM

No, the dog was a Great Dane, and the cat was a Great Siamese? And you little brother was a Great Mistake?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse

If anything the redskins should take from the chargers game is that those tiny speed backs kill defenses....and no offense to betts but sproles could run by laughing the whole way.....we need to find a guy like sproles late in the draft

Posted by: hillb03 | January 4, 2009 9:05 PM

The lesson I took is that with a good offensive line that can open holes, a tiny speed back can succeed. If we don't build a line in free agency and the draft, it doesn't matter who we draft late.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

If anything the redskins should take from the chargers game is that those tiny speed backs kill defenses....and no offense to betts but sproles could run by laughing the whole way.....we need to find a guy like sproles late in the draft

Posted by: hillb03 | January 4, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree....and it's definitely NOT something new...In fact Joe Gibbs used thsi type of back field his whole first stint....Riggins/Joe Washington....Rogers/Smith/Bryant......Riggs/Byner/Erivins

Posted by: leevi98 | January 4, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

In fact Joe Gibbs used thsi type of back field his whole first stint....Riggins/Joe Washington....Rogers/Smith/Bryant......Riggs/Byner/Erivins

Posted by: leevi98 | January 4, 2009 9:12 PM |

And, the Hogs. Without them these guys would have been eating dirt.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

wel said (written) Fuzzy, but isn't he projected in the Top 10? I'd love to trade down 5-8 spots and pick up a 3rd rounder but that seems to clever/logical for Cabanna Boy...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 5:48 PM

Are you referring to the guy who traded down last year and picked up an extra second? Why is it "clever" when you propose it, but not when he does it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 4, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

wow, are you really defending the guy? ok, he got us 3 2nd rounders, a great opportunity to pick up an impact lineman or an LB and he took....not 1, not 2, but 3 pass catchers. Making luxury picks when you don't have that luxury isn't real bright.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 4, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

boston college has no respect for acc's elite teams...i hate the newcommers. they're so annoying like miami, bc and vtech.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 4, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Yes,

I'm aware Tavaris Jackson was benched--in the 2nd game of the season, I believe.

But some months ago, I posted that the same tactic be applied to Mr. Campbell, and folks thought I was on a "Let's go Todd Collins" bandwagon, which I'm not.

Even th Iggles sat McNabb for a lil' bit so he'd get real about his play...anf guess what-- he did!!

The Skins' offense was so bad the season, the mundane playcalling so wack (another post) that sitting Campbell down was offered as a way to let the guy pause, chill, reflect, and go back under center having watched Collins perform either as badly as he or, hopefully, a little better.

I think so of the offense's issues are related to design, personnel use, and too much reliance on basic WCO principles...

Then there's the Clinton Portis "I Want the Ball Even When I'm Ineffective" issue...

Yes: the o-line is bad. But what--no max protection? no sweeps with Thomas leading? no tosses? no flips? no bunch formations to hide the hot receiver? no 'rub offs'?

And especially, no Fred Davis?

We must draft for needs, and hope the guy calling plays brings some dynamic and creative plays out the book to get points.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 4, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Making luxury picks when you don't have that luxury isn't real bright.

Soooo... Reche Caldwell was a luxury?

This is the part I don't understand... Vinnie sits in his fortress of solitude, making Kurtzesque decisions about second round draft picks? Drafting WRs when everyone else in the building wanted the #9 OL or #8 DL?
The problem is a bit bigger than Vinnie, is it not? I know he's made two hundred bad picks (scouts, players, coaches, trainers, waterboys)... but I liked the looks of the second-string waterboy in the Bengals game -- really hustled out there late, and had a really good squirt for Sellers right after the fumble.

Posted by: daggar | January 4, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe I agree in general that this past year the offensive personnel was not suitable for the WCO, that's because most of that personnel was picked to operate the Gibbs offense. That's why JZ deserves at least one more year to get the players (better pass protectors), and let another year in the system to improve the offense's efficiency. I'm not buying the Tarvaris Jackson is a more aacurate passer than JC argument. Even in this playoff game, Jackson completed less than 50% of his passes. He had some dropped balls, and he threw some balls away, but that completion % is not NFL quality.

Posted by: TWISI | January 4, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I was just having a play around with the Draft Pick Value Chart and come up with a bit of an interesting option. Whether or not either team would be interested is another matter, but the numbers are pretty close to adding up.

Detroit gives us the #20 pick (850 pts) and the #33 pick (580 pts).

We give Detroit the #13 pick (1150 pts) and Calros Rogers (That's giving him a 280pt value equivalent to the #62/#63 pick)

The Lions seem pretty weak at CB, so they might like adding Carlos, and moving their second first Rounder higher would mean they could choose a QB at #1 (Stafford/Bradford) and take an OL at #13 to help protect him.

For us it would give us more picks, and an opportunity to address both sides of the line.

I know it's silly playing around like this, but does anyone think they would be tempted?

Posted by: kost52 | January 5, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Yes, kost, that's silly, very silly indeed. But that's what we've come to expect from you.

I was thinking maybe we'd send Carlos Rogers and that #13 pick to Detroit for a 2009 Ford F-150 and a truckload of ham sandwiches.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

.....a truckload of ham sandwiches is VERY tempting.

Posted by: kost52 | January 5, 2009 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Look, all the evidence Vinny and Danny need that this team is just one player away -- exactly where we were last offseason -- was on display this weekend. The Skins were 3-0 this season against the NFC wild card weekend winners, Arizona and Philly. 3-0! Damn right.

Figuring out who that one player away is, that's the trick. Last offseason it turned out that one player was a big pass-catching playmaker, so we got three of them in the draft, playmakers all. This offseason the one player away will be...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

That's exactly why I think the trade down works for us, that way we can take 3 OT's in the first 3 Rounds! How can we lose!

Posted by: kost52 | January 5, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

No, no, OT is waaaaay too obvious. They want us to think they're going O-line so when draft day comes we'll be stunned by their brilliance when they go another way.

Last offseason most of us were obsessing over which pass rushing D lineman we were going to pick. Would it be a D tackle or a D end? And then BAM! they trade back and pick one two three pass-catching playmakers. WOW! The ol' okey-doke, courtesy of Vinny C. Still stupefying, all these months later.

This offseason most of us will be wondering which O lineman or D lineman will be there at #13 for us... good golly, I can't wait to see how they get us this time!

The ol' okey-doke! I fall for it every time...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:27 AM | Report abuse

I love the sound of this guy, and not just the way his name rolls off the tongue.

Ndamukong Suh (pronounced En-dom-ah-ken Soo), DT Nebraska, 6'4" 305lbs.

Prospect Update Archive- Suh exploded on the scene this fall with a team-high 68 tackles, including 15 for loss and 5.5. sacks. Scouts love his size and athletic ability, which he put on display with two interception returns for touchdowns and a rushing touchdown as a fullback, and rumors are floating that Suh is headed for the draft.

Posted by: kost52 | January 5, 2009 12:39 AM | Report abuse

+++...gets on the field and plays well, if Vinny's #13 pick is rookie of the year (probably a receiver), etc. Then everyone -- except Cork -- will agree that Vinny had a good year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator |

No, I'll say he had a miraculous year, and ask which travel agent booked his trip to Lourdes.

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse

I googled "ham sandwich detroit, mi" and it looks like that truckload of ham sandwiches might be the way to go.

Mike's Famous Ham Place, Louie's Ham and Corned Beef, Ham Heaven Sandwich Shop, Johnny's Ham King II, Ham Shoppe... the list goes on and on.

I know it's the Midwest, but I'm taken aback at just how much these people love their ham. That's a level of dedication you have to admire.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

++++On an unrelated note, of all the college backs I saw over the break, the one who looks like an NFC East caliber back is the guy from Iowa who got over 100 yards in every game this season. Don't remember his name ... something boring like Shawn Jones or something like that.

Posted by: dcsween++ +

How'd that last Iowa back the 'skins drafted work out?

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Ndamukong Suh might help sween finally get over the Skins' not landing Nnana Mushmushi...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

+++ESPN's Todd McShay has his first Mock Draft up.

He has us taking Michael Oher OT, Mississippi.

6'5" 330lbs+++


Great pick. But he won't be there at 13, according to the Mocks I've read.

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

Following the "one-player-away-trade-down-blow-the-fan's-feeble-little-minds-scenario..." we trade down and take three linebackers in the best player available model.

Other than that, we believe the only thing lacking from this team is a DT that demands double-teams and hold firm at #13.

Alright, getting out of Vinny's mind.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

I dunno... if the big move last year was trading down and stockpiling those three second-round picks which Vin so brilliantly exercised, maybe the big move this year will be trading down and stockpiling -- wait for it... wait for it... -- four third-round picks! Just imagine how great it will feel when we draft three tailbacks and one fullback in the third round of the 2009 draft.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 2:06 AM | Report abuse

I know it's silly playing around like this, but does anyone think they would be tempted?

Posted by: kost52 | January 5, 2009 12:03 AM

I do. I posted this scenario about a week ago. This is another possibility with the flip flop of picks and trading Carlos to Lions, where the Skinscould get the Lions' two three round picks.

Posted by: TWISI | January 5, 2009 6:20 AM | Report abuse

Nate, I like your scenario in how it relates to last year (love the drafting a FB to replace the pro-bowl FB ala Fred Davis) however, the #2 WR was a position of 'need' for some time - just not the most pressing need. It was probablly 3rd to D-line and O-line.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

I hope we've all been wrong about the FO and that they have matured. What if when JZ was hired, they all agreed to a 3-5 year plan? Draft players for the WCO, (since we hired a WCO HC) best available, and grade after 3 years or so. This draft, and free agency may be dominated by O-line and D-line, next year LB...

********alarm clock goes off.......

I hate getting back to the grind like this,
what a strange dream I was having. The skins FO actually had a plan.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Well at least the IGGLES credit the Redskins for their playoff run......That's the ESPN headline this morning....

Has Boston College lost their mind threatening to fire their Head Coach if he interviews for the JETS HC job? What a PR disaster. Not to mention, he's a great coach.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | January 5, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

clegg, the AD and the coach aren't big fans of the other, so there is a small amount of history there. This is the way for Defilippo(AD) to get rid of coach Jagz. Jagz also has worked previously with Favre, and the general school of thought is that he'd never do this unless he had something better in place, when you know that your old job is going away based on your actions.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

I must admit that I did not see the Vikings game but c'mon - comparing Tavaris Jackson to JC?

Jackson had a stat line of 15 out 35 for 164 and a pick-six.

JC did not turn the ball over and the 'skins beat the Iggles twice. In fact, he was over 50% in completions in every single game - same offensive scheme but the Vikes have a better line.

Maybe it looked like the same but without the game killing turnover.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

If Oher falls to 13, then thats winner/winner for the Redskins. He's a Left Tackle though, isn't he?? If you draft him, or if you trade the pick, I think you're doing well.

rc, condo's on your phins loss yesterday. They had a good year, headed in the right direction...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I believe that BC should fire their head coach if he interviews. You sign a contract, you abide by it. It's. Just. That. Simple. High time these campuses started holding people to their word, athletes, coaches, professors, deans...

Posted by: davebutz | January 5, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

JC is absolutely incomparable to Jackson thats retarded.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

So, if the team is faced with either drafting Oher at 13, or trading out of that pick for multiple picks in other rounds what do you do...personally, I think the team has WAY too many holes just to think one guys is gonna solve all the problems.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg I agree with you especially as has been mentioned before this draft should have 3 round of good depth of OL prospects. The best thing would be to trade back and add players at the three positons of need: OL, DL. LB.

Posted by: TWISI | January 5, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Was there a beep beep that I missed, or am I blogging with myself again.....I'm hideous....look away...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

As you know, a lot has to happen before you go down that road. Cap cuts - which hasn't happened here in a while - resigning guys, free agency, trades, etc.

Not to mention what the 'skins are paying the OT posistion already. #13 won't come cheap. Mucho bonus pesos.

Also, if the 'skins think they are one player away, they will go DT then cross their fingers that Heyer and Rhinehart can start and the other three won't get injured.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

It's pretty clear what needs to happen, JC plus a 3rd rounder for Matt Cassell. Good day.

Posted by: Gweez | January 5, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Greg,
Depends on what kind of trade we can be offered doesn't it?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

But wouldn't that be a nice dilemma to have? As armchair CM, I'd like to use the #13 to get someone to be an immediate starter at RT with a 1-3 year plan to replace Samuels -- moving Samuels to RT at that time.
If they fall back, will they be able to get the type of ten-year bookend LT that Samuels has been?

Posted by: daggar | January 5, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

gweez, are you kidding me?? I'm going out on a limb right now, and saying that if a team trades for Cassell they'll be SORRY they did. He spent 4 years in the same system learning it, before even throwing a single pass, 4 years studying the same thing over, and over and over. Not to mention that Welker and Moss have a way of making you look good. Cassell is gonna cost picks, and big money to sign, I just see a bust coming out of that.....

dag, thats what I'm hoping for, a nice dilemna...say giving up the rights to Oher, for a late 1 and a 2....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

But wouldn't that be a nice dilemma to have? As armchair CM, I'd like to use the #13 to get someone to be an immediate starter at RT with a 1-3 year plan to replace Samuels -- moving Samuels to RT at that time.
If they fall back, will they be able to get the type of ten-year bookend LT that Samuels has been?

Posted by: daggar

-------

Exactly my sentiment. If you have a shot a true player, take him. Don't trade back just for the hell of it. Otherwise you may fall into the trap of drafting 3 guys at a certain position, only to find out none of them are what you were actually looking for.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Look, all the evidence Vinny and Danny need that this team is just one player away -- exactly where we were last offseason -- was on display this weekend. The Skins were 3-0 this season against the NFC wild card weekend winners, Arizona and Philly. 3-0! Damn right.

Figuring out who that one player away is, that's the trick. Last offseason it turned out that one player was a big pass-catching playmaker, so we got three of them in the draft, playmakers all. This offseason the one player away will be...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

I said the same thing...

You just know that Vinnerato were watching and thought to themselves that all they need is a big FA acquisition to get over the edge.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 5, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Greg, agreed with your take on Cassel. The guy is a career back-up in college and the NFL. Too much of a gamble for any team - unless you sign McDaniels as coach. Then it could work but without the same talent as NE has.

Don't like nice delimas - it becomes the next shoulda, coulda, woulda for the FO and this blog.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we can count on Samuels being moved to RT in 1-3 years will be lucky if he can still walk in 1-3 years.

Samuels needs to be off the roster in 1-3 years.

Get someone to play RT now and use heyer to back up Samuels, then replace him next year.

Greg,

I would like to move back as well but only if it makes sence otherwise I would take the best T at that spot.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Samuels will be fine in 3 years. He's a perennial pro-bowler, only 31 right now (which would be fine if the rest of the line were younger), and has been injured a grand total of 1 time in his career. He can still ball.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"As bad as Tavaris Jackson is, I didn't see a bunch of overthrows, bounced passes, or multiple balls where the receiver had to adjust his body to make a catch...

...so what does that say about Jason Campbell?

Posted by: MistaMoe"

sounds like you've never seen Tarvaris Jackson play

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Flound, I think if they have a chance to move back and fill in their missing 2nd round pick, they have to do just that. If you can end up with Duke Robinson and someone else, Cody, or Herman Johson instead of Oher, you have to make that happen...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Why is the Washington Post scared to criticize Redskins Management? The articles at the end of the year have been pure garbage. This team has not been to the Super Bowl in 17 years and has reached a state of deterioration that is not correctable in less than 3 years. The 2-6 ending is the model for the future.
(Because of incompetence we need to replace a GM, Head Coach, and QB. Because of age we must replace 5 o-linemen, 2 d-lineman, 2 linebackers, and a CB. That magnitude of correction is impossible to accomplish, even with a qualified GM and head coach, in a short period.)

Posted by: edeshields | January 5, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Wow, this is the oldest post ever. But with the talent pool at OT in the first round, I wouldn't trade down. From what I've seen, you can still get a very good OT at #13. Then, in the 3rd, get a DT or OG. Then look to FA for an additional DE and DT, OLB, and OG. Don't have to be top flight, but serviceable and young. Carlos Dansby would be a great FA pickup at LB.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 5, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I was kidding Greg. Why is said, "Good day". Thought I'd stir the pot. I am actually suprised no one has brought this up. I am pretty sure you can't trade away someone you franchised tagged anyway.

Posted by: Gweez | January 5, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Samuels will be fine in 3 years. He's a perennial pro-bowler, only 31 right now (which would be fine if the rest of the line were younger), and has been injured a grand total of 1 time in his career. He can still ball.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 10:04 AM |

I glad you can tell the future you start breaking down more as you get older.

My question is why would you want him here in 3 years, this team needs young talent on the line otherwise they will continue to stink.

He's actually been injured twice in his career missed four games in 2003.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

EARLY SIGNS POINT TO DUNGY DEPARTURE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2009, 10:06 a.m. EST
A source with knowledge of the Colts’ organization tells us that there’s a growing sense in the building that, this time around, coach Tony Dungy will retire.

The source points the current atmosphere as 70 percent that Dungy will leave, 30 percent that he’ll stay.

It’s hardly an earth-shattering revelation, especially in light of Dungy’s recent disclosure to NBC’s Al Michaels that, for each of the past five years, Dungy has entered the offseason initially planning to call it quits.

There’s another sign pointing directly to Dungy’s departure. Bob Kravitz of the Indianapolis Star writes in Monday’s edition that it’s time for Dungy to go.

In a city where the Colts often keep the primary newspaper in town on a choke chain, Kravitz (in our view) wouldn’t be sliding out onto that specific limb unless he already knows what Dungy is going to do.

Of course, there’s also a chance that Kravitz has gotten a nudge from G.M. Bill Polian, who might want to use the transition to a new head coach as cover for the team’s looming struggles in the last capped year under the current CBA, which for the Colts will be the day of reckoning after years of pushing cap dollars into future seasons.

In 2009, the old accounting rules don’t work. Peyton Manning can’t be given $10 million of his $14 million salary as a guaranteed payment in order to reduce Manning’s $21.2 million cap number.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

If we can find ourselves a good RT and continue to develop Heyer to replace Samuels in 2-3 years, give him playing time and continue to work on his run-blocking, I think that is the best plan.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

gweez, sorry totally over my head.

And actually I think thats the plan for the pats, they're going to franchise him, and hope that some team(sucker) will bet the farm for this guy. My hope is that no one trades for him, and they have to committ 29 million to 2 guys playing the same position......Have I said I hate the pats??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

My question is why would you want him here in 3 years, this team needs young talent on the line otherwise they will continue to stink.

Posted by: Flounder21
-------

I realize they need young talent on the line. It's not realistic, however, that we'll find 5 top-flight linemen within the next 3 years, especially considering the FO management we currently have in place.

Samuels is the last starting lineman that needs to be replaced. And he's by far the most experienced and leader-worthy, which is needed for young linemen to grow.

He's a franchise left tackle. Those don't grow on trees. One operation in which he needed arthroscopic knee surgery isn't cause for concern that he'll "be lucky if he can still walk in 1-3 years." Yes, IF we draft 2 tackles that are better than Samuels, then by all means he can be let go. However, that is very, very, very unlikely to happen. As much as people want Stephon Heyer to be the real deal, he is light-years away from Chris Samuels.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Sorry to see Tony D. go. Strikes me as a good coach, and the colts should have had 3-4 more bowl appearences.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

al, agreed, Dungy is a class act....

I loved some of their playcalling....the 70 yard bomb when the other team was subbing in stands out, as does the crossing patterns they ran....sigh....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,

Samuels is not the problem. Jasno didn't give an offensive MVP, but if he did it should've been Samuels. Before his knee was hurt, Jansen's weakness in pass protection was concealed then both sides of the line needed help with the pass rush. Offense sputters. Season done.

Furthermore, you cannot move him due to his contract and you can't commit a billion dollars in bonuses to three offensive tackles.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Put him on the list of guys I would rather have running our FO. Along with Parcels, Peoli, Caserly, Morocco, and a tube sock.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

As much as people want Stephon Heyer to be the real deal, he is light-years away from Chris Samuels.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 10:23 AM

I think that this is the key point. Someone of Samuel's ability is usually gone by the 15th pick on the draft. All of those that think that you can trade down and still get good starting offensive tackles are trying to draw to an inside straight. For this club the draft is very much a crapshoot. They enhance the odds of getting a starter (at any position) by keeping their #1 pick.

We are not one draft class away from a championship level. We are several drafts away. The sooner the front office plans for that the better off the team will be in the long run.

Posted by: driley | January 5, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

The Pats will not franchise Cassel! Guarantee top five qb money to a back-up? Did I miss the report that Brady will need an extra year or rehab?

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Did I miss the report that Brady will need an extra year or rehab?

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

There was a report circulating that there were complications with his recoveries from the surgeries.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 5, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

bang,

I didn't say he was the problem now but in 3 years he should not be playing for this team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported yesterday that the Patriots intend to use the tag on Cassel, although that could not be confirmed"

Bang, Tom Curran of NBC Sports is reporting that there is looseness in Brady's need, and a lack of range of motion due to scar tissue buildup, as well as him being something like 22 weeks behind in his rehab schedule. If there is looseness, which they will see when they go in to clean out the scar tissue, they might have to re-do the operation sometime in May, putting his 09 season in doubt.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Can I request the following: if (god forbid) the Eagles or AZ wins 2 and goes to the SB, can we not get hundreds of posts saying, gee, we beat the Eagles twice, we could have been SB champs, etc. It would be just as clever to say we lost to the Rams and really should get their #2 pick in the draft.

This is an 8-8 team. In this league you have to be above average to be considered championship caliber. Saying 2 wins vs. the Eagles = SB for us is about as intelligent as saying Ole Miss should be considered a BCS contender because they beat Florida.

Sorry to be grumpy this early in the new year but all the Giants posts on this topic last year drove me nuts...it just feeds into the one-player-away theory which has been so painful to have the organization believing for the last few years.

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 5, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Cindy Boren | January 5, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

what kinda offer would you take for Tom Brady?

Brady will be 32 at the beginning of next year, Cassel will be 26. Cassel is fresh.

And look what you could get for Brady. Honestly, I think some team would offer something like two first rounders, if not a little more. Maybe something conditional. I don't care how he is, you gotta entertain that.

And I'm not saying Brady is a system QB or that Cassel will be better (cause for one I haven't seen Cassel in the playoffs, I HAVE seen what Brady does in the playoffs), but it's worth some thought.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Contest

#1 We sign Albert H and he turn into "Hey Hey Hey Fat Albert after he gets into Danny's money

#2 Sign Sproles and trade Portis while he still has some use behind a line that isn't old enought for social security

#3 Trade Campbell and start Colt Brennan perhaps he is smart enough to run an NFL offense

#4 Danny gets indicted for insider trading by the SEC and is forced to sell the Redskins to a decent (non meddling) owner

#5 We actually draft "starters" at any position

Posted by: retirewealthy3 | January 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Contest

#1 We sign Albert H and he turn into "Hey Hey Hey Fat Albert after he gets into Danny's money

#2 Sign Sproles and trade Portis while he still has some use behind a line that isn't old enought for social security

#3 Trade Campbell and start Colt Brennan perhaps he is smart enough to run an NFL offense

#4 Danny gets indicted for insider trading by the SEC and is forced to sell the Redskins to a decent (non meddling) owner

#5 We actually draft "starters" at any position

Posted by: retirewealthy3 | January 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

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