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Zorn Defends Scheme (but Hints at Changes)

Jim Zorn was peppered with several questions about the scheme and his play-calling today (at one point Zorn playfully pretended to pull arrows out of his chest as the inquisition intensified). For the most part, Zorn stuck to his story, pointing to execution and not the principles of his offensive game plan.

"It's our execution," Zorn said. "I'll stay with that, because I believe it to be true. Our schemes are good, and I think our adjustments are good, too. I think we've approached each game soundly. But we have to execute better. I know you all hate hearing that."

Privately, some players are chafing at this; some believe there could be more wrinkles, unpredictability and creativity in the approach. Some feel the offense has become static, and, when I pestered Zorn about adding more gadgets and gimmicks to help provide the big-play element, he conceded that there could be validity to that. In a pinch, here are there, perhaps a smidge more of that could help.

"I think that's a good suggestion," Zorn said.

The reality is, the Redskins, Lions and Bengals are the only teams in the league who have yet to score 30 points. Only three teams have scored fewer than Washington's 13 offensive touchdowns (Cincy, Oakland and St. Louis each have 13). They have four offensive TDs in the last four games. It's not pretty, and surely there is some element that could be added from a schematic standpoint to help jump start this thing.

One thing Zorn said that I did find intriguing, however, is that it appears he and his staff will discuss simplifying things a bit this week. Zorn has been working toward building his version of the West Coast Offense, trying to instill more variety as the weeks go on (even though he admits it would not appear that way from the results). But he wonders if now might be time to strip the offense back a bit, especially with the young wide receivers getting a little more involved, and still getting up to speed.

"Each week as we try to grow in our game plan," Zorn said, "I'm always torn between that fine line of pushing the envelope a little bit, or should we back off and not work so much on the things that I'd like to do, but work on those things that we have to do. And I continue to try and push us to say, 'Well, we can do this, and we can do that.' And it's obvious I think in these last several games that we can't do it all. So we might have to take a step back before we take another step forward."

Certainly, there is a level of introspection in that statement, and Zorn, a deep thinker to begin with, has tried to dissect these problems over the past few months. And he should believe in his system and be confident in his ability to map out, call and succeed with his game plan. But something isn't right, and whether it's spending a little more time on the reverses and option passes, or going back to basics in the passing game, a little change might go a long way with the season in the balance and one of the NFL's most ferocious defenses awaiting on the road Sunday night.

Overall, Zorn handled the questions with the honesty, grace and candor that have defined his dealings with the media, which remains refreshing. He has a way of not taking things personally, respecting the duties of the people asking the questions and not big-timing anyone that is not always seen in this business.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 1, 2008; 4:30 PM ET
 
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Next: Skins by the Numbers

Comments

wow jason!!! first a gm and now an offensive coordinator job. i can't believe this. you actually stood there and suggested the type of plays they should run? wow!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Really, you wanna try that one again?? Ever heard of 2006, when Betts ran for over 1000 yards in only 8 games?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I love what Betts did in 06 but this is not 06, and whats he done this year vs then?

Well lets see the #s
G:GS:Att:YDS:Avg:Lng:TD:F
2008 9: 0:45:167:3.7:14:1:1
2007 16:0:93:335:3.6:20:1:1
2006 16:9:245:1,154:4.7:26:4:6

So he has been down 1 ypc, he is getting less carries though and this is his first year seriously injured.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

ummmm bill cowher please!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Jack, you have otherwise had a SOLID day of posting and reasonableness and thought ... why spoil it on Matt Cassell? This time of year last year, this is what people were saying about Derek Anderson.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

dc, not saying it has to be Cassell, just saying while I like JC, this the the Not For Long league where there are no sacred cows, if he can't put up points against Cincy and San Fran (two of the worst defenses in the league) than I have no problem with them bringing in some competition at QB.

We still have JC under contract for another year, I'm saying he out to be pushed by somebody other than an 80 year old immobile weak armed system career backup. Maybe Colt is that guy, I don't think so though, if JC has good to great games against Cincy and San Fran, and is ok against Bmore and Philly then you role with him, if the offense continues to look inept down the stretch and he doesn't "flash" against those terrible D's then I say get some legit competition in here and make him earn his spot.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

I have this recollection about Baltimore having to come up with a makeshift secondary ... Chris McAlister out ... Samari Rolle super banged up ... and most of their offensive line being a rebuilt (compared to the opening day lineup) ... am I misremembering this? Is all of this hullaballoo just about the Raven's linebackers? [Kind of like the Philly hullaballoo?]

If so, I think the Skins could, at least, totally tie the Ravens.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Have to disagree with JZ on this one. Offense is putrid, and the playcalling is as well. Last 3 games they've scored 1, 2, and 1 touchdowns, thats called not getting it done.

I saw no schemes, and I saw no adjustments on Sunday.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

While I generally am in the pro vs. anti Jasno camp on balance, I find it tiresome that he writes an article that more than anything points out (or tries to) that Jasno's own questions were important and insightful.

**FF post**
While I can only claim blind luck to this point (for example Peyton Hillis and I were equal beneficiaries of incredibly unlikely series of injuries), a number of my players have lousy playoff matchups. I encourage Nate to recognize regular season champion as this may be as far as I get.
**end FF

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

greg, they used no huddle yesterday and had no effect.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:36 PM

Let's not start on the horrendous No Huddle offense you claimed they 'used' yesterday.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Typical Skins November slump.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

greg, i think he's talking about adjustments from week to week not within the game. that would actually require brain cells.

sween, i too think that balmer isn't all that. and hall's ability to pick off qb's is a plus as long as springs isn't on the field. for sure we could tie them!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Since the middle of October the offense hasn't put more than 2 touchdowns on the board in a single game, and somehow Zorn is defending this??

I'm not saying fire the guy, but a month and a half later, he's just realizing that something is amiss???

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Jack, Not For Long would be guys like the current starting RT, the #2 RB, one of the short/fast WRs, the DE bound for the HoF (for another team), the injured SLB, etc., but NOT the current QB. No way, no how. His performance trajectory is still pointing way up ... like a old school blogger up here (Old School) used to say, its all about getting a connection between the head coach and his franchise QB. [Of course, I used to say "it rises and falls at the O-line", so we agreed to disagree about the ultimate key to franchise building.] Bottom line: No, not anyone other than Jason Campbell ... maybe Colt Brennan in 3-4 years (or earlier due to injury to Jason, but only until healed).

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse


Have to disagree with JZ on this one. Offense is putrid, and the playcalling is as well. Last 3 games they've scored 1, 2, and 1 touchdowns, thats called not getting it done.

I saw no schemes, and I saw no adjustments on Sunday.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:44 PM |

Greg you're no more qualified to analyze and judge than LaCanfora... there's nothing wrong with this offense -- the scheme or the play-calling -- that can't be solved by competent pass protection.

Posted by: outsider6 | December 1, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

4th, they did use it. at least it looked like a no huddle. jason got decked and he got up and the o-line was already in position to snap the ball. it could've been that jason called for huddle and they said "whatev!"...by definition it's still a no huddle.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

The offense is clearly not consistent and efficient enough to take 13-play, 80 yard drives down the field. Zorn needs to start calling plays to pick yards up in chunks, and the defense needs to give the offense more short fields to start with. The quick slants, power runs (with the beat up o-line), and short crossing routes won't get it done. Time to get creative and aggressive Zornster.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

that can't be solved by competent pass protection.


Ok here is the problem. They're not, most likely going to get proper pass protection the rest of the year. Unless the 1991 Offensive line is walking through that door its not going to happen.

Now that we've got that out of the way, ADJUSTMENTS need to be made. They needed to be made, oh I don't know back in November.

Look at the Steelers, their offensive line gets Big Ben Killed on a nightly basis, but they're putting up points.

Zorn needs to make the necessary adjustments to:
1. Not get JC Killed
2. Score points.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

dc, I think the oline needs an overhaul before anyone is going to be consistently successful, and maybe we'll have to agree to disagree but JC was handed the job last, played ok and then TC went on a run.

I think he's played pretty well this year but still 10 td's through 12 games aint great and if he can't put up points on the #23 and #24 defenses in the league, well, I say get some competition in here, not saying break the bank to do it, and not saying automatically bench JC and hand somebody else the job, but make him earn it next year, cause he's been given it for two years and the results have been mixed at best.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

sween, i'll give you a blue print for jc's performance next year if he's still the qb.

as long as the o-line is prime condition and portis is in prime condition he'll get you 19 points per game. but as soon as the line gets banged up and portis gets banged up for carrying this team for 10 weeks he will slowly regress to his mean and that is 12 points per game.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

After constantly hearing about Saunders 500 page playbook; I wonder what excuse the players will use this year for not knowing the offense. We're in december and they're talking about scaling back the scheme. That's insane - these guys have been in this offense since spring and they don't know it by now then I doubt that they ever will.

Posted by: az_david | December 1, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to make the necessary adjustments to:
1. Not get JC Killed
2. Score points.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

For once bean we agree. I would love to see them do more of what Denver does with the bootlegs and designed rollouts with JC, he's mobile, makes good decisions on the run and that would give the oline some help because that is a lot more like run blocking (something they do pretty well) instead of backpedaling pass pro. (something they don't do well)

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

**FF post**
While I can only claim blind luck to this point (for example Peyton Hillis and I were equal beneficiaries of incredibly unlikely series of injuries), a number of my players have lousy playoff matchups. I encourage Nate to recognize regular season champion as this may be as far as I get.
**end FF

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 4:46 PM

Are you Team Zornskins?

If you are, then you're team is a beast. A Goliath even.

And I look forward to chopping you back down to size IF I win this weekend's match up. I think I owuld then play you next week........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

4th, is today the last regular season game??? if so then crap!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

4th, they did use it. at least it looked like a no huddle. jason got decked and he got up and the o-line was already in position to snap the ball. it could've been that jason called for huddle and they said "whatev!"...by definition it's still a no huddle.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 4:51 PM


I know I know.

I'm just saying it was sooooo horrible. They didn't look fluid. Maybe it just got installed. Because they didn't have no huddle back in game 1........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Question: Was this a Vinny guy or a Joe Gibbs guy? [I assume your answer depends on whether you are a homer or a blamer]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/bengals/2008/12/01/ddn120108spbennotes.html

CINCINNATI — The biggest ovation from Bengals fans came with 3:20 to play in Baltimore's 34-3 victory on Sunday, Nov. 30.

That's when quarterback Jordan Palmer trotted onto the field, replacing starter Ryan Fitzpatrick.

"It felt good for a couple seconds," Palmer said, "until the hammer came down."

After handing off to Cedric Benson for a 7-yard gain, Palmer threw an errant pass that strong safety Jim Leonhard intercepted and returned 35 yards for a touchdown. ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

4th, lol...was just trying to be funny...i know what you meant. but hey we did see it...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I suspect Willis McGahee will be doing some pounding on the Skins D-line after having had a personal bye week against the Bengals yesterday:

"It's strategic," coach John Harbaugh said of the decision to keep McGahee on the sideline. "We've got a plan, and we've got a plan for Willis, I guarantee you. And he's going to be a big part in December, no question about it. ..."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravensnotes01dec01,0,1478965.story

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

skins drafted jordan palmer? and now he's his brother's backup? weird!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

wow i like this john harbaugh's strategry...save your running back against sucky teams....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

This team (i use that term loosely because they play as far from a team as possible) They don't communicate with each other, they don't help each other, they just play by themselves and hope for the best and come to practice on Tuesday, that being said they are like an addictive drug that will not go away. Yesterday I gave them up packed all the redskins flags, shirts, mugs, footballs jerseys etc... in a box and put in the attic. Swore to myself I would not read this blog today, swore I would not take the box out of the attic until they become a team. Swore to myself I would sell the season tickets. Damn it...now I am posting on this blog. I swear they are an additive drug.

Posted by: connskins | December 1, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I haven't posted in quite some time..but after watching yesterday's game and reading this post I've come to the following conclusion:

The scheme is the scheme. There is nothing wrong with the scheme. All 32 teams run a scheme. We run ours...they run theirs.

Our challenge is that we do not have the premier athletes to execute our scheme.

On offense, we need a new center, a new left guard and a new right tackle. Everyone keeps saying we don't a deep threat other than Santana and of course, we'll need Malcolm and Devin to step up huge next year, but the problem is that we don't have a line that can create a nice pocket for Jason to throw from. Just an extra second makes a world of difference in te NFL.

On the defensive line, we need a Pat and Kevin Williams type combination in the middle. Without that dominant interior to collapse the line...our ends cannot get a rush.

I think Zorn is being a little kind. It is about execution. However, there is a difference between saying we need to execute...versus a front office that gives you the talent to be able to execute.

I hope this offseason, we'll be active in the draft and free agent markets (Please...no free agents over 30...we need to get younger). However, I hope we avoid any flashy skill position additions and go soley for the meat and potato additions that will transform the interiors, and ultimately, the future success of this team.

Posted by: dchandl3 | December 1, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

WHOEVER YOU ARE STOP CALLING ESPN980 AND TELLING VINNY CERRATO HOW YOU APPRECIATE HIM TAKING YOUR CALL.First and foremost he should be focusing on the upcomming draft instead of being a sports talk radio host,this is what's wrong with this franchise,what kind of message do you think this sends to the players let alone the rest of the league.Vinny should be spending time finding diamonds in the rough,but no he's too busy saying "you're next" God i wish we had a real GM. And one more thing stop pussy footing around on offense Jim Zorn go back to being creative give the oppossing defense something to game plan for!!!

Posted by: dargregmag | December 1, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

ok, off skins topic for a second, apparently after shooting himself Plax called around to several hospitals trying to find one that would treat him without asking questions, when he finally went he checked in as "Herm Smith"......hahahahhahahahahahaaa what a tard


and he's married to a freaking lawyer!

taken from Jim Rome's show:

at no point did she ever say "hey herm, lose the piece its a bad idea in New York"? and did he really think as a star player for the NY Giants he could check in to a hospital as Herm and nobody would figure that out?..."is that Plax over there with a bullet in his leg? nope....that's Herm Smith."

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Yes. I think you are out of the playoffs. You pulled a Me So Zorny........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Zornskins ... you are the champ. Good to see you up here. We're all pretty much in your shadow. Hoping you are the 2007 Pats -- nothing personal

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is correct. I reviewed the game in slow mo and the problem was execution. The Giants basically said we don't believe JC can hurt us, and focused on the run. Zorn made the necessary adjustments, but JC just didn't/couldn't make the accurate passes that were necessary.

Zorn will face that from every team from here on in.

He needs to put in Brennan, who was the most accurate passer in NCAA history.


Posted by: mfamrf | December 1, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I would love to see that "scaled back offense". Is there anything left to scale back?

Posted by: thor2 | December 1, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Jack, Plax used "Harris Smith" not "Herm Smith"

Also, it wasn't a "gun" ... it was a handheld ballastics device ... and he didn't "possess" it ... it was "possessed" ... and it shot him of its own volition.

Anybody got a dictionary up here? What IS the definition of "is"?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

i out of the playoffs? whaaaaaaa?! that not good.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Now that we've got that out of the way, ADJUSTMENTS need to be made. They needed to be made, oh I don't know back in November.

Look at the Steelers, their offensive line gets Big Ben Killed on a nightly basis, but they're putting up points.

Zorn needs to make the necessary adjustments to:
1. Not get JC Killed
2. Score points.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 4:54 PM

Greg, it's not Pittsburgh's first year in that offense, so your logic is faulty. And Zorn's made adjustments... using Sellers more, using Kelly and Thomas more. But no amount of tweaks will fix this offense -- read this offensive line! -- this year. The simple fact is they may run the table against 4 very beatable teams... or they could go 0-4 down the stretch. It all depends on how the defense holds up with very few offensive points on the board. You can probably figure on a 2-2 finish and a 9-7 season. Given the way things looked in the off season and preseason, would anyone REALLY have been that down about 9-7?

Posted by: outsider6 | December 1, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

** FF Post **

When do the playoffs in the first [and at one time potentially superior in our own minds, but now a mostly absentee] league begin? And do only the division winners qualify?

** End FF **

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

connskins, are you the guy who drove down to FedEx in the rain with your son for his first game (maybe a preseason thing against the Jags)? Or was that a different ConnSkins?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Steelers, their offensive line gets Big Ben Killed on a nightly basis, but they're putting up points.

For the most part, I think you have been pretty spot on today beantown.

However....Ben gets killed when he holds on to the ball too long, not cause his O line is failing him. Ben is also a fairly adept scrambler, who can tuck it and run when necessary.

Not to mention, they put up a lot of points because their defense pressures the opposing offense ALL THE TIME.

JC doesn't seem willing to tuck it and run. And we sure as shinola don't have a front seven that scares anybody.

Posted by: ksquare | December 1, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

"The reality is, the Redskins, Lions and Bengals are the only teams in the league who have yet to score 30 points. "

Another reason why defense should NOT be the primary concern in the upcoming draft. Our D can hold on one more year with what they got (hopefully).

OL is the biggest area of concern. Center in the first round, OG/OT in the second round before D is even considered IMO.

also big DOH to myself about the trade Collins thing. I remember making this mistake last year too.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Enjoyed today's posts breaking down the offense.

A few questions though:

Any prospects of establishing the running game without Portis? I mean, Betts looks like a decent enough back-up, & then maybe Cartright or Sellers. Yesterday Portis was clearly running on empty from the get-go, & we just kept pushing him. Once that was clear we just gave up on our running game.

& also I agree that Zorn is a great "deep thinker" & it's great how he's able to put his thought-process out there for everyone to see. But regarding the rookie WR's, I've never heard a coach so hung up on this issue of "trust"...especially for 2 law-abiding top draft picks. Granted, you don't want them making mistakes, but everyone's going to make mistakes. Look at Chris Horton. Zorn's starting to sound like a father enforcing curfew.

He's making it sound too personal - & it's just with the rookie recievers, not with other 2(?) remaining picks - & my concern is that he's seeing things too much from Campbell's perspective, rather than, say, from the perspective of the whole team or of the rookies themselves.

...all of which isn't very problematic, except that is until you find yourself deep into the season & short on reliable pass-catchers. Perhaps if he'd been a bit more open giving them more playing time over the past few months, we wouldn't be strapped for recievers. Any thoughts?

Posted by: Josh7 | December 1, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

*** FF post ***

4-12, this is the last week of the regular season in the "original" (though less enthusiastic or inspired) RI FF league. Reddish Coat would know how many make it to the playoffs. That info has to be on that site somewhere ... though I'm not very enthusiastic or inspired about looking for it.

*** end of FF post ***

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Josh7, I think Zorn's trust thing about the young WRs is not about getting the car back before midnight, it more about remembering plays and routes and stuff.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

****FF Post****

Dealer - Blame Alex Zeese as he didn't beat team Forrest which would have made you guys tied for the division lead.

The only way I could have gotten in was by John from Houston losing (which is prob why I didn't see him today) and I had to win.

John has me as far as divisional record AND Points.

****End FF Post****

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

For those of you who missed the Saints/Buccs game, esp. the only two plays worth watching, both Buck Ortega (former Skins TE-of-the-future who played with Sean Taylor both at Gulliver Prep and The U) and Leigh Torrence posted special teams tackles for New Orleans.

Based on the terminology today, I think its fair to say that Ortega is playing some Torrence-level ball nowadays.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

****FF Post***

The NOW SUPERIOR league aka Nate's league, AKA '4th trying to be Gibbs' League has/has some great comp.

Only 4 teams make it. It seems that we had atleast a 90% participation. That's real good from my experinces.......

***End FF Post*****

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

** FF Reply Post **

sween- Looks like 8 teams make it in the original [lazy, less than ardent] league.

** End FF Reply *

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

THE SKINS LACK RECEIVERS SO I WON'T BLAME THE Q-BACK.THERE ARE MANY TEAMS WHO HAVE Q-BACKS WORSE THAN THE 'SLOW' J. C, THE DEFENCE COULD TAKE A DECENT OFFENCE DEEP INTO THE PLAYOFFS. I SAW THE GIANTS VASTLY OUTCOACH THE SKINS IN THE FIRST HALF ESP G. BLANCHE, I HAVE NOT DECIDED IF COACH Z IS ACCEPTABLE OR INCOMPETENT. RIGHT NOW HE IS PLAYING NOT TO LOSE INSTEAD OF PLAYING TO WIN. MANAGEMENT FLUNKED WHEN THEY DRAFTED 3 RECEIVERS WHO CAN NOT CONTRIBUTE. WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR.

Posted by: kcandlc | December 1, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

By the way, anybody up here got a bookie? I want the under in 'Skins/Ravens...whatever it is. 35. 33. 31 and a half...Don't care. I'll take the under.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

dchandl3, well said...

I'll have to watch the game again tonight (scotch scotchy scotch), but some first impressions through the haze:

I don't recall who, but one or more up here made the justified comment that #11 hadn't shown any flashes that justified his placement in the draft, but I think he has now. That was a GREAT play on that touchdown. Not ready to induct him to the HOF, but that was definitely a flash.

I woke up to Riggo and others bashing Campbell, calling him overly sensitive and the wrong quarterback for the long haul. Like Jasno, I shouldn't have been surprised but I was. What's this I hear about other players that we gave up on to soon that go on to other teams and excel like Ryan, Pierce (kinda, just too expensive at the time), and of course, Liegh Torrence? Or about the need for consistency and to resist the urge to blow it all up and start over? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Campbell is the 8th rated passer in the league. He needs to play better, but he will grow into a franchise-type player.

I'd agree about needing more wrinkles, and I kinda do, but there was a reverse for a TD and an option pass from ARE for a big gain; it seems there were too many drops and a mis-thrown ball or two on traditional routes (like a fade to Kelly). This does make the case for better execution.

Springs owes Hall a big fat steak dinner.

And I'm spent.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 1, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

dont get me wrong..im a die hard redskin fan but im soooo tired of this team..same ol same ol for how many years now..its sickening seeing good franchises such as pittsburgh, new england, and other franchises turn it around such as atlanta..first of all we need an owner who knows what he's doing in order to turn a franchise around and i believe we do not have one..we really need to start from scratch and get rid of these players..even if there some of my favorite players on the team, i dont care! we need to turn this around and we can't do that with our current players..i saw no heart on that football field yesturday..more like we quit from the crazy head coach flipping out on the sideline to the defensive players not being able to stop the giants when they didnt even have a number 1 reciever on the field..and although everybody gives props to the defensive coordinator, i noticed plenty of bad calls out there in which the giants capatilized on especially when we overloaded all our players to the right and giants did the screen pass to the left..bad play calling on defense and offense..i can go on forever, but i'll end this by saying it is a disgrace to say this team is playing for sean taylor..we so called played for sean against buffalo and lost, then we so called played for him against the giants and got killed..dont disgrace the memory of sean taylor like that..i'll end this the same as i began it..IM SOO TIRED OF THIS TEAM! ps...we shoulda never got rid of marty shottehiemer, any of u remember that!?

Posted by: ripmeast21 | December 1, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

4-12, they haven't posted the line yet, but your guesses in the low 30s likely would be under. The lowest posted line is Browns/Titans at 37.5.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Point 1: Weakness on o-line means the WRs don't have much time to get open.

Point 2: Weakness with the WRs mean they need a lot of time to get open.

Point 3: Jason Campbell

Point 1 + Point 2 = Point 3 will struggle

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Aye sween. This one's got 10-6 written all over it.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

and we've been *beep beeped*...

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

**** FF ****

My 2 game playoff roster (if I make it)
qb P Rivers vs Oak, KC
rb D Williams vs TB, Den
rb L White vs Cle, Hou
rb C. Taylor vs Det, Ari
wr R Wayne vs Cin, Det
wr Fitzgerald vs StL, Minn
TE O Daniels vs GB, Tenn
D/T Packers vs Hou, Jax
K Bryant vs Car, Atl
HC Pats vs Sea, Oak

Except for the TE, I have pretty good matchups for the guys I have going. Williams vs TB could be a problem.

But my concern is Rivers. 2 of his last 3 games were ugly -- single digits.

***** end FF post *****

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

The only problem I see with the Redskins offense is an inability to not shoot themselves in the foot every offensive posession. If a receiver is not dropping a pass that hits him in the hands, another one is lined up incorrectly. A lineman jumps the snap count or gets beat like a drum to give up a hurry/sack, or another one gets flagged for holding in the desperate attempt to save JC after having been just beaten like a drum. Its always something, its the players' fault, and its inexcusable.

Professional football players SHOULD be able to catch balls that hit their hands, stay onsides, and line up correctly. Players who have lost a step need to be replaced, but that won't happen this year.

If its up to me, Moss, Thomas and Kelly start next year, ARE MIGHT hold a roster spot, and Jansen, Yoder, Thrash, Kendall are gone. Thomas and Samuels need to get it together, and if its close in camp next year, they can start the new season on the sideline backing up young guys who can grow together into a dominant line. The entire line in its present state has seen its best days. Its obviously too late to blow it up this year, but young studs upfront are the most important medicine this team needs.

I think Thomas and Kelly will actually perform better if they don't have the pressure of having to play PERFECTLY to get on the field for more than a few plays a game. If they are the starters without fear of coming out, they can just relax and catch the damn ball. ARE?? Dude has been around the block WAY too many times to be dropping the balls that he ROUTINELY drops. Good bye to him and his big salary cap hit, too.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | December 1, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for paying me back zece and taking care of team forest for me! Ugh!

Was there a chuckle in the presser room when zorny used the words scale back the offense?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

call me crazy, but i think we should deff. make a play for plexico this off-season or if this season if the giants decide to release him. I know he's a bum, but everybody thought hall was a bum when we signed him and look what a great pickup he's been so far. With plex and moss, then randle el in the slot and cooley at TE, our offense will be unstoppable. Then during the draft we should focus on drafting young lineman on both sides of the ball. Then maybe sign a younger free agent linebacker and kicker and i think we'll be set for next year and years to come. What do you guys think????

Posted by: rfosterms | December 1, 2008 8:36 PM | Report abuse

I've got a scheme change--I am so over Jon Jansen and his lame, I'm the politico of the draft act. Yes Tony, one should pick someone to block. Or else let them walk by you to tackle the runner.

Start the 2nd year for the rest of the year and cut his lame ass.

Posted by: ElYeah | December 1, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

I keep coming back to a 'Doc' Walker comment a few years ago: this team doesn't have a high football IQ, compared to the Gibbs 1.0 teams. This team doesn't have potential HoF players on it as those teams did; this team does not have a dominating o-line as those teams did. Drafting some, big, nasty, pit-bull o-lineman, and adding some 26-28 year olds through free agency is a must for next year.
Schematically Zorn must adjust to the strengths of his players. Gibbs' offense looks better and better when it's late in the year, cold and nasty; yet, players must be sharp enough and TALENTED enough to execute it. Outside of Portis and Rogers, is anyone else even worthy of the Pro Bowl?
It's the players, stupid; the players.

Posted by: pdfordiii | December 1, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

I mean its not like the games are put into the hands of Jason Campbell. There were several key throws that receivers missed last game (Randle-El crucial 3rd down conversion, Kelly TD Pass, Thomas crucial 3rd down conversion). Besides, like I said I have yet to see a game where Zorn has put the ball in Campbell's hands.

WEST COAST OFFENSE: Pass First, Run Second. We establish the run to pass. There is clearly a problem in the ideology.

Posted by: piyusharora | December 2, 2008 6:49 AM | Report abuse

I am actually so sick of ARE... the man honestly is open 3 times a game... drops 1 catches 1 and has no chance to catch the other... he does nothing on special teams and is really just taking up a roster space that woulda been used to keep torrence, who at least could play special teams... Thomas has progressing and Kelly is young and nervous... that drop was pure nerves and as he gets more playing time he'll get better... I am actually pretty high on those 2, even though everyone else hates them I think both are going to be special players...

What is really bothering me is how we can continue to play Jon Jansen... Listen i love the guy, he was awesome for us for a long time, longest tenured skin and he was arguable the best rt for years, but he is washed up... when RENALDO WYNN is beating you.. consistently... you know you have trouble. I have not seen him do anything special in run blocking and I have seen him get beat regularly in pass blocking... please, can we please, please please get Heyer in there for him? I don't get why we aren't developing this kid, he has potential and with playing time he might become a decent tackle in this league... why are we wasting our time with an old washed up BUM who is killing JC

And anyone who bashes JC does not understand football... You try to play qb while your on the run every play taking hit after hit. You get jumpy and start looking at the line instead of downfield, its impossible to be a good qb if you get hit half as many times as JC does, let alone as many times... he has almost NO chance to set his feet and step up in the pocket as hes always running for his life.

AND last point... please sit Portis. I know he is our offense, and it will most likely mean a loss to the Ravens, but it will mean he is health(ier??) for the last 3 games, which is what we need. It gets to a point where is isn't helpful, and vrs the giants, he was no CP... he was an average back who was CLEARLY in pain the entire game... at some point its a detriment to the team to have him out there... let him sit and get healthy please....

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | December 2, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Just Listen "peoplearestupid1"!!!

TRUTH!!!!!

Jason Campbell has 32 TD's in 32 games. In 10 of those games he as thrown 0 TD's. That is more than 25% of the time.

It's not that he is inconsistent, it is that his release is very slow and defenders consistently get a jump on our passing plays because of it!!! Have we even run a successful slant this whole season? Would it hurt to pumpfake every once in a while??

I'm sorry, I really liked Jason, but he will never ever ever ever be a ProBowl Qb and any offense with him at the helm will never ever ever ever put up enough points to scare anybody. He is allergic to throwing TD's and the stats point to it.

I'm not saying Colt is the answer, but the man throws TD's. It doesn't matter how or why, Colt just throws TD's. Put him in! We are wasting Clinton Portis' prime years!!!!!

Lemme blow your mind:

Jason Campbell in 13 preseason games/2 touchdown passes

Colt Brennan in 5 preseason games/3 touchdown passes

Posted by: Vicc | December 2, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

WHY WON'T WASHINGTON STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ON THE OFFENSE INSTEAD OF jASON CAMPBELL. NO MATTER HOW BADYLY HE PERFORMS IT'S ALWAYS THE O-LINES FAULT OR ZORN CALLED A BAD PLAY BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS JC IS NOT A PLAYMAKER HE HAS NO VISION FOR THE LONG BALL HE HAS NO POCKET PRESENCE IN THE POKET! WE SAW THIS STALE OFFENSE LAST YEAR PRIOR TO JASON CAMPBELL GETTING INJURIED IN THE BEARS GAME THE WHOLE GAME WAS 3 AND OUT FOR THE SKINS O BUT SOMEHOW ONCE HE WAS OUT A LIFETIME SECOND AND THIRD STRING QB CAME IN A WOKE UP THE OFFENSE. I BET IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE IMPROVED PLAY IN THE SECOND HALF AND REST OF THE SEASON OF OUR OFFENSIVE LINE AND RECEIVERS AND IM SURE IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A QB WHO WAS ABLE TO PLAY AT THE NFL LEVEL COMMING IN FOR A QB WHO JUST DOESNT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO COMPETE AT THIS LEVEL. WAKE UP ZORN YOUR A GOOD COACH DON'T LET CAMPBELL RUIN YOUR CHANCES AT A JOB IN THE NFL NEXT YEAR. THE CARDS BENCHED LEINERT AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. MAYBE CAMPBELL NEED'S SOME TIME TO THINK ON THE BENCH!?

Posted by: NJredskins | December 3, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

OH AND THE ONLY REASON CAMPBELL IS RATED SO HIGH AS A QB IS HIS COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IS UP ONLY BECAUSE JC WILL ALWAY AND I MEAN ALWAYS GO TO THE CHECKDOWN RECEIVER JUST SO HIS COMPLETION PERCENTAGE DONEN'T SHOW HOW PATHETIC HIS PLAY IS. HOW MANY TIME'S ON THIRD AND LONG CAN HE THROW A 2 YARD PASS PLEASE SAVE THE SEASON WHILE THERES STILL TIME PUT HIM ON THE BENCH ZORN BEFORE JC MAKES YOU LOOSE YOUR JOB

Posted by: NJredskins | December 3, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

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