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Zorn's Injury Report: Portis 'Really Sore'

Jim Zorn updated the injury situation and it was more of the same. RB Clinton Portis will likely miss practice most of the week, with his neck "really sore." Portis's knee is holding up well, Zorn said, but this saga will play out during the week. Everyone generally figures Portis will play, but this figures to be another situation in which a final decision comes late in the week.

Linebacker London Fletcher is "liable" to play though his sprained foot is sore following the game.

Corner Shawn Springs re-aggravated his torn calf muscle in the game and has been limping. Zorn said it's a matter of keeping the muscle as warm as possible, but with Springs playing mostly nickel and not on the field much, it acted up on him.

Left tackle Chris Samuels's knee got "worse and worse" as the game went on, but he is expected to gut it out again.

Defensive tackle Cornelius Griffin came through the game "okay" with his shoulder problem, Zorn said.

Linebacker Marcus Washington is likely out another week with his high ankle sprain, Zorn said.

Defensive tackle Kedric Golston is trying to get through his bone spurs with his "pain tolerance" ultimately dictating whether he can play. "He might be able to go," Zorn said.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 1, 2008; 1:14 PM ET
 
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Comments

Doesn't matter at this point. Even if we sneak into the playoffs, we don't have the manpower for anything but a first round exit.

We have ZERO SECOND HALF POINTS IN THREE STRAIGHT HOME GAMES!!!!!

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 1, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

sit Portis till he's fully healthy. Start Betts. He's just getting beat up out there....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

F it.

Rest Portis, Springs, Wash, Golston, and Samuels. Fletcher depending on how he feels.

Give Betts, Hall, Blades, Monty, and Heyer the starts. Attempt to pull off the injury-plagued upset. Those guys won't have anything left for the playoffs even if we get to the postseason with the way they're being ridden.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm tired of hearing zorn say execution execution, execution...

over what...8 games...at some point lets start pointing some fingers at his allmighty scheme...

for real!

Posted by: carsonspence | December 1, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Why dont we bench Samuels for the remaining games and if he can come back if we make the playoffs.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 1, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

The team's age is really starting to show. Hopefully those draft picks will be able to help out, maybe Davis can play left tackle since he can't get on the field any other way.

Posted by: az_david | December 1, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

It's time to let Betts get crushed by the Ravens and give Portis the week off so that he can be healthy enough to possibly help this team limp in to the playoffs if the 4 teams in front of them all fall on their faces so we can have a "see we went to the playoffs season again" giving Snyderatto the delusions that this team is close and one more piece is all they need and then they'll spend another entire offseason trying to find a receiver.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

All in all, I thought the Skins would be worse than 9-7 this season so I should not complain. Hrrrrrmph! Now, show me a team that plays with spirit the whole 60 minutes and I will not even clear my throat. What percentage of the game did the team play with any intensity? Less than 50% in my opinion. The coach may not have the talent but I expect him to get a serious effort from the talent he has. I want to see receivers fighting for every ball, I want to see special teams players going for broke on every play, I want to see lineman not wave at players they should have blocked and I want to see people who are paid to tackle not fall down with girly arm tackle attempts. I know that we played a better team yesterday but it seems some of the players had lost before they even set foot on the field.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

On Golston's bone spurs, that isn't a sports injury, at least not the kind that you get in a game. My dad used to be a podiatrist. What happens is that the top edge of the bone (the rounded end) keeps growing and literally digs into the surrounding tissue. Golston and the doctors really aren't able to do anything except "pain management" until the offseason when he'll have a surgery to remove the spur and then heal up. Bone spurs suck pain-wise.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess that means Springs is done for the year......

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 1, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know if I can podcast the presser to my I-Tunes or anything?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

but I expect him to get a serious effort from the talent he has. I want to see receivers fighting for every ball, I want to see special teams players going for broke on every play, I want to see lineman not wave at players they should have blocked and I want to see people who are paid to tackle not fall down with girly arm tackle attempts. I know that we played a better team yesterday but it seems some of the players had lost before they even set foot on the field.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 1:35 PM

Totally Agree.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 1, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not sure about Baltimore, but Miami runs the wildcat close to 10 times a game. Those 2 plays were 2 of the most successful of the afternoon. Maybe we need to start pulling this off more often."

Those plays are called trick, or gadget, plays for a reason. If the 'skins tried to run those every time they stepped to the line, guess what? Not a trick anymore.

Miami ran the Wildcat in the first game they tried it against New England 5-6 times, and less than that each week since. It's not a dominant part of Miami's play-calling, it's something that gives their base offense more room.

Posted by: hithere1 | December 1, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm tired of hearing zorn say execution execution, execution...

Posted by: carsonspence | December 1, 2008 1:32 PM

Almost sounds like [gulp] Norv's postgame repetitious use of the term "big plays".

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm tired of hearing zorn say execution execution, execution...

over what...8 games...at some point lets start pointing some fingers at his allmighty scheme...

for real!


Thank you!!!!!!I'm right there with you. This guy needs to grow some coconuts and get after a defense ealry and often. First down pass, second down trick play, third-n-short play action, fake punts. He needs to stop making excuses and hunt for blood. Find the injured person on the defense and expose them Belichick style or at the very least make one IN GAME adjustment. The giants embarrased us at the end in a way I haven't felt in a long time.

Posted by: bosa_18 | December 1, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

did someone ask springs, the consomate team player, another player jasno LOVES, why the f uck was he going after the ball????? instead of getting ready to block for hall???????? that play alone showed what kinda person he is.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Hey at least they fought their guts out.

Posted by: az_david | December 1, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm tired of hearing zorn say execution execution, execution...

Posted by: carsonspence | December 1, 2008 1:32 PM

On the other hand, it IS better then hearing him say circumcision, circumcision, circumcision. Not sure why its better, but it is better than if he said that.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

so really...i'd take bill cowher if it means no mo vinny!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

[Channeling John McKay]

What about your teams execution, Coach?

I'm all for it!

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand, it IS better then hearing him say circumcision, circumcision, circumcision. Not sure why its better, but it is better than if he said that.
Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I dunno, the AIDS prevention movement could use new a celebrity in the sports world to talk about the issues of using MC to reduce the spread of AIDS.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

All of you need to shut the trap "GOD" gave you, and let the coaches do there jobs. 99% don't make the money these palyers, so you want to throw a stink bomb on them. Remember you're just fan a !

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Im not suprised Springs hurt himself I was watching the pregame and they were showing players still arriving and he didnt get there till 11:30 or 11:45


hello, the game is at 1pm. it takes at least two hours to get properly dressed and warmed up for this type of weather

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 1, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

this is all happening cuz we let go of brooks, leigh torrence, kc bramlet and didn't sign jasno to a multi-year extension! kc bramlet was torching the league, euro! c'mon!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

4th, you owe me ... as long as I hang on vs JohnD

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 1:18 PM

******Fantasy Post*******

I was going to mention this tomorrow, but.....

Thank you very much. You will hold on.

But I owe you nothing since I wacked off the Omaha Steaks Guy. Is Nate losing? I didn't look.

Sorry John. But I learned from Gibbs. The games are more important in the 2nd half of the season vs. the 1st Half. I think this week will be my 6th win in a row.........

*****End Fantasy Post*****

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

for the love of all that is holy, can Bubba Tyer please REtire? And can we get someone from Parcell's group over here...??

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I haven't seen this brought up much but I still think the whole Sean Taylor ceremony involving the team in pregame was stupid. Do it at halftime while the team is in the locker room, that type of ceremony is just for the fans anyways.

And by involving the team pregame you're all but ensuring they are thinking about everything but the Giants. I was shocked at the lack of intensity, lack of aggressiveness, and the mental mistakes they made.

If you watched the replay of the Toomer bomb, Smoot was with him stride for stride then pulled up and looked back like he thought the play was over and then realized the ball was coming and he couldn't get there, that's just pitiful! play to the whistle! then the 10 minute extra point was terrible and the truth is, Hall was the only guy that showed up in that secondary. Rogers and Smoot had their worst games of the year, and the oline, well we've already talked about that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Rogers was beaten like a drum yesterday. Hixon owned him all game long...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

4th, zce, how many more weeks till the playoffs?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

All of you need to shut the trap "GOD" gave you, and let the coaches do there jobs. 99% don't make the money these palyers, so you want to throw a stink bomb on them. Remember you're just fan a !

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Corner Shawn Springs re-aggravated his torn calf muscle in the game and has been limping.

I am so done with this guy. Take a pay cut or send him packing. Sorry Lisa

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Doc just said something really interesting, he said he thinks the way the Giants played against us is the way that teams will play us going forward, throw deep a lot early cause your QB is not at risk, and if you can hit a few and get up early we can't catch up.

And he just said what I just, he said to me you don't ever go to a wake before a fight, and if you're standing around crying all the dog is leaving you and you aint ready to fight when the bell rings. I wish Zorn would put Doc on staff just to get in people's face and motivate them...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

so really...i'd take bill cowher if it means no mo vinny!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Spot on dealer! Vincenzo Cerratto has no track record of success, only failure. He sucked with San Francisco, sucked at ESPN, and has probably sucked his way to the job he currently holds.

With all his money, Snyder couldn't find a bright and up and comer ala Jerry Reese or Thomas Demtrioff? Pathetic...

Posted by: ksquare | December 1, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Is it is just me is is Zorn starting to become ultra conservative?

what happened to that early season go for it mentality?

we would go for it on 4th down to try and get the offense going now we only go for it if we have to.

Speaking of which, no wonder we cant score we run the same plays with no different looks. every long play is a play action out of the same formation, I mean switch it up already. you can run play action from different formations or even throw long without play action.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 1, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

"Hall was the only guy that showed up in that secondary"

Agreed, and did you how many tackles our two safeties missed? Horton looks great one game and then looks lost the next. Landry was absent in mind and body. Smoot? Not backing up his usual trash talk yesterday. And to think that Bradshaw and Plaxico did not even play. Somehow, mercifully, the Giants seemed to bog down around our ten yard line, or it could have been much worse. In the end 8 points was all they really needed.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Anybody else watching this team feel like the players are still "thinking" their way through the play instead of just "playing"?

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

"Rest Portis, Springs, Wash, Golston, and Samuels. Fletcher depending on how he feels.

Give Betts, Hall, Blades, Monty, and Heyer the starts. Attempt to pull off the injury-plagued upset. Those guys won't have anything left for the playoffs even if we get to the postseason with the way they're being ridden."

I mostly agree with this. Note that Fincher would start at LB for Wash if Blades plays for Fletcher. I would not rest Samuels if he can play as we desperately need to replace Jansen with Heyer. Otherwise right on.

Posted by: ipesq | December 1, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Doc is just a old NFL palyer who played the game for chump change. He has no insight of the game, if so someone would have been put him on a staff.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

The recent losses have come while the Skins played teams with winning records. Production has declined as each successive week caused the list of (key) injured players to grow.

The Giants execute plays to perfection and the Skins simply don't... Coach Zorn has it right on, but the coaching staff has some culpability in preparing the players for each game. Injuries must really be taking a toll on execution, because some of the players would probably not be active if the games were less important and the offense was certainly more effective before Samuels hurt his knee.

The Skins are still in the playoff hunt if they simply win from here on out. If they lose on the road to the Ravens, then I bet they'll play the rookies and backups and rest the injured players...

Posted by: siris | December 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm lost. Stephon Heyer was good enough in the preseason to beat out Jansen for the starting right tackle spot. Now Jansen can't block and Samuels can't stand, but Heyer can't get on the field. Is his shoulder still hurting, or has he regressed? He played well enough in our stretch run last year as a rookie.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | December 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see us make the following changes to the coaching staff.

Jim Zorn Head Coach (Keep)
Greg Blache Defensive Coordinator (Keep)
Sherman Smith Offensive Coordinator (Fire, bring in someone who can show JZ the ropes a bit more maybe a former HC who is just to old for the job or pry away a russ grimm type)
Joe Bugel Offensive Line (Retire, I love the guy but he is getting up there in age and I wonder if his non WC line can gel with the new system)
Stump Mitchell Assistant Head Coach / Running Backs (Keep)
Rennie Simmons Tight Ends Coach (keep)
Stan Hixon Wide Receivers Coach (fire)
Chris Meidt Offensive Assistant (fire)
John Palermo Defensive Line Coach (keep)
Kirk Olivadotti Linebackers (fire)
Jerry Gray Secondary (keep and maybe promote Assistant DC, I think Gray could be our DC some day)
Steve Jackson Safeties (keep)
Danny Smith Special Teams (fire and run out of town)
Bill Khayat Quality Control-Offense (fire)
Arthur Smith Quality Control-Defense (fire)
John Hastings Head Strength/Conditioning (fire)
Bobby Crumpler Assistant Strength/Conditioning (fire)
Harrison Bernstein Assistant Strength/Conditioning (fire)

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Doc is just a old NFL palyer who played the game for chump change. He has no insight of the game, if so someone would have been put him on a staff.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Didn't say I wanted him designing plays, I said to get them motivated, something we could have sorely used Sunday.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse


I think one can see that makes an abundant amount of sense. But what happens when a "higher power" ties their hands? If you read between the lines, vis-a-vis what these reporters are carefully typing what do you see? Releasing desperately needed special teams players to? Keep players like Erasmus James, Justin Tryon and others who more than likely are busts? The reason why? Youth ... no. They were chosen by Vinnie and Danny ... again, and again, we see how these two marginalize and completely ruin potentially great teams. Still worst than Jerry Jones ... but not quite up to Al Davis ... and wait Bidwell begins to look better ...

Sigh, I don't think that Zorn, Smith, or Blache have the needed amount of control that Gibbs had. And that above everything else is the problem. All other issues seem to depressingly descend from that.

__________________________________________________

All of you need to shut the trap "GOD" gave you, and let the coaches do there jobs. 99% don't make the money these palyers, so you want to throw a stink bomb on them. Remember you're just fan a !

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: periculum | December 1, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

4th, forgot about that. Then we're even ... if I hang on -- looking pretty good on that front. This ends the FF regular season, its playoffs next. 4th and I (again, gotta hope that the Jax FG kicker doesn't kick 5 FGs) will then be in the playoffs, with the honor of then losing to Zornskins.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

ewwww, Alex

Looks like you are about to sack the city. I would look at Vinny's staff first. Our player evaluation staff is the main culprit. We botched the biggest draft we have had in years. We seem to bomb half the time on free agent signings. We do not even self evaluate very well. We over pay hugely on some of our own players and do not offer contracts to others that are valuable. Let's start the razing there and if need be let it spread to other areas of the organization.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

FF scoring this weekend:
3 guys btwn 90-99, including 4th
Me (2nd best) at 103

Zornskins: 150

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Corner Shawn Springs re-aggravated his torn calf muscle in the game and has been limping.

I am so done with this guy. Take a pay cut or send him packing. Sorry Lisa

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 1:51 PM


JM--This one's NOT on Springs. Hall ran over Springs while Springs was trying to make an INT yesterday. That was enough to knock his leg backwards. He was lucky just to walk off the field. Or did he run over Hall? Happened so fast I couldn't tell which one got the worst of it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Zorn's playcalling is a reflection of the offensive line's inability to pass block. He is being conservative so that he doesn't get JC killed.

Come on folks. There are rarely simple answers to mediocre teams.

It is execution: what if Jansen doesn't whiff on a few of those pass blocks, what if he actually blocks his man on that fourth down? What if Kelly hangs on to that pass? What if, what if, what if.

It is scheme: everyone knows the Redskins predominantly look to Portis and Moss on 1st and 2nd downs and Cooley on 3rd. It's not rocket science. Zorn does need to get creative, but again he is hampered by his pretty woeful offensive line.

It is personnel: everyone keeps talking about giving the receivers a chance. This is the NFL in 2008. Rookies have to contribute from the get-go or else coaches get fired. Further, these rookies don't address the biggest problem: the 'Skins do not have a dominant offensive or defensive line. In the NFC East, if you lack either, you aren't going to the playoffs.

There are no simple answers. Except perhaps that this is a mediocre team without a measurable track record of improvement over the last 5 years, it's a team that backed into the playoffs last year and two years prior, and that this year the NFC is pretty dominant and backing in at 9-7 or even 10-6 isn't likely to happen.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 1, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand how Bill Cowher is going to save the franchise.....it took him 15 years to "win" a super bowl (see referees/bad calls). The Steelers have good management (Cowher didn't do it all there) and have historically had patience with their coaches. Why would we fire someone who may take 10+ years to get us there? We the fans would be calling for his heads if there wasn't a title after 4 years (see Joe Gibbs)......I say we give Zorn at least 4 years before caling it quits.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 1, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

te, it was springs who ran over Hall. Hall I think was signaling "fair catch" and springs jumped into him.

pdiddy, "Zorn's playcalling is a reflection of the offensive line's inability to pass block"

What about calling more RB screens, or more draw plays??

The playcalling yesterday was just putrid....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

T_E - that was Hall's ball & Springs came in from the Safety position and ruined the pic and really killed the momentum.

Hall did a great job on Sunday. Springs is really talented & surely an asset, but I wish they'd keep him in position. He's not a safety. Sorry, he's not.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 1, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Playoffs will be Zornskins (11-2), Forrest (8-5), 4th (8-5) and me (8-4 likely) or Nate (8-4).

Nate is behind 5 points with Maurice Jones-Drew going or him tonite. So he's likely to get to 9-4.

I'm up 22, with Owen Daniels going for me, JohnD has Scobee and a coach. So unless Scobee has a huge night, I'm 9-4, and would win the tie break.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Springs, if the issue was keeping it warm, why wasn't he riding a bike on the sidelines or doing something active. Any injury to Springs (which are very frequent) means he will sit out at least one game.

Posted by: tedunni1 | December 1, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

driley,

Its the FO too, but I can't seem to get a list of who makes up the FO like I can the coaching staff.

There are many in the FO that I think are good guys who can add stability After hearing both JLC's raves and an interview with Morocco Brown I think that he should really be the No. 1 guy for the front office, think him as GM and Vinny as a team president who keeps his hands out of the honey jar.

But I do think we need to replace some guys on the coaching staff, if Hixon is not developing these WRs at a reasonable pace then we need a change there, I am a homer so I say you bring in Art Monk and have him teach these kids. Our Special team is a joke in all areas save Kick Returns and we have not been good since Danny Smith got here, watching the team not try and block a field goal every time makes me sick. Conditioning has been a problem for this team forever it seems. And Bugle is the only one on my list that I would say its up to him, I have too much respect to say fire Bugs but am concerned about the O-Line problems of late.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

alex, I agreed with all of those except

Kirk Olivadotti Linebackers (fire)

I think he's done a great job, he has had Marcus out of the lineup for most of the last two years and Rocky too, he's done pretty well.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

One more point regarding Portis. It might be time for him to sit out a game. I believe that the fact that he doesn't practice is really hurting the offense because he is a big part of what we do, and having him not available for practices hurts the timing of the offense and its shown the past 4 weeks.

Posted by: tedunni1 | December 1, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

FF is an odd kind of thing. This is my first time doing it. JohnD is likely to be 2nd in points scored and not get into the playoffs. Blind Hawgs is 3rd in points scored and will finish with a losing record (6-7).

There is a lot of quirky stuff in FF !!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

>>> "What about calling more RB screens, or more draw plays??"

Actually, the only series I saw live was the touchdown. After watching JC get creamed, Zorn called a screen right to Portis, a screen middle to Betts, the lucky defensive holding penalty to negate an interception, and finally the reverse. It was exceptional playcalling to take an aggressive front four out of the game and move them around and Thomas did make a great play to get into the endzone.

I watched the rest of the game last night on TiVo, and agree with you about the bulk of the rest of the game. In general, the playcalling has been uninspired, and I actually think they rely too much on screens.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 1, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

ZfJ,
I understand that Olivadotti has not had much to work with, but I look at the young LB's and notice some constant problems with their play style, missed tackles, poor wrap up and stuff, does anyone keep track of missed tackles?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

How big is the Rams loss now??

Posted by: cspwoods3 | December 1, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Anyone see the 99 yard bomb to Berrian after the Vikes pulled off a goal line stand?

Took me back to SJ9 hitting Gerry Allen for a 99 yard TD pass ... twas a long time ago.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

alex, no doubt, but your talking about Fincher a UFA, Blades a late round guy, and Campbell a UFA, Rocky is the only guy with legit talent they've drafted and under Kirk he has become a decent starter, that's not bad.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Boy is it ugly up here today!

Considering how little time the offense stays on the field, I give the defense a big hoorah! If the offense could score points, it would make the defense that much better. I'm sure it's disheartening for the defense to stop another team and then go out 5 minutes later to have to defend a much shorter field which I keep seeing over and over again.

Posted by: charley42 | December 1, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Quick poll:

Which of the Ford family holdings is having a worse year?

A. Ford Motor Company
B. Detroit Lions

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

mack, I don't think anyone on here is a as you put it, "front office defender", what I am is I try and be logical.

Like for example, calling a rookie a 'bust' at this point, is not logical.

Hope that helps.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

B town,
I said we had three major areas of concern entering the last off-season, both lines and adding a play maker on offense. If we're arguing about whether or not our draft picks are "busts" (all pass catches by the way)then we agree that two out of our three needs were completely ignored and the jury's still out on the third. Agreed?

Posted by: mack1 | December 1, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

wait I found the FO list but personal titles dont explain what guys do for the skins (or most teams I am guessing). If people know what the titles mean feel free to chime in.

http://www.nflfrontoffices.com/?p=9

Executives:

Daniel Snyder (Owner)
Vinny Cerrato (Executive Vice President of Football Operations)
Scott Campbell (Vice President of Player Personnel)
Morocco Brown (Vice President of Pro Personnel)
Eric Schaffer (Vice President of Football Administration)
Scouting Department:

Don Warren (Pro Scout)
Don Breaux (Advance Scout, exact role unclear)
Alex Santos (Pro Scout)
Joel Patten (National Scout)
Russ Bolinger (National Scout)
Chip Flanagan (Area Scout)
Tim Gribble (Area Scout)
Shemy Schembechler (Area Scout)
Shaun Fletcher (College Scouting Assistant)
Jimmy Halsell (Salary Cap Analyst)
John ‘JJ’ Jefferson (Director of Player Development)
Jim Zeches (Area Scout)

Other (as made up by alex zeese)
Sonny and Sam (Head of keeping fans from suicide)
Scruffy (janitor)
Vinny Cerrato (Dan Snyder official *** polisher)
Larry Michael (Vinny Cerrato official *** polisher)
Chief Zee (executive in charge of crushed velvet)
The Hoggetts (Title is in latin Dragius Swinus)

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

JM--This one's NOT on Springs. Hall ran over Springs while Springs was trying to make an INT yesterday. That was enough to knock his leg backwards. He was lucky just to walk off the field. Or did he run over Hall? Happened so fast I couldn't tell which one got the worst of it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

No Springs ran over Hall.

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

FF mirrors real football. Anybody can have a good week and players can have a bad week.

In FF, EVERYONE can have a good week on your team and you'll get close to 200 points. The next week, EVERYONE could tank.

I'll have more on this after my win is secure (I don't wanna jinx my potential 6 game winning streak)......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

B town,
I said we had three major areas of concern entering the last off-season, both lines and adding a play maker on offense. If we're arguing about whether or not our draft picks are "busts" (all pass catches by the way)then we agree that two out of our three needs were completely ignored and the jury's still out on the third. Agreed?

Posted by: mack1 | December 1, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse


Mack, I've tried and tried on this, you can't argue with Beantown on this, their is no winning despite all logic to the contrary he will never admit that this was arguably the worst offseason in the history of football.

Don't try and tell him that the FO hasn't improved a single position except perhaps Horton at SS, but not a single other spot on the team has been improved. The one position they chose to address they have gotten zero contribution from their efforts, nevermind that you're not saying that for eternity and beyond that makes them busts, that your just saying that the FO ignored major needs to over address the one flashy need and to date has completely whiffed.

That doesn't matter though, cause all he'll say is wait and see for that day off in the distance that Kelly, Davis, and Thomas might be good, meanwhile this season goes down the tubes cause of the FO decision making but he can't be proved wrong cause the entirety of their career isn't known yet.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I am still shocked that springs did not see hall.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

The thing that really disturbed me about the loss to the Giants was the Redskins' lack of intensity. It's a huge rival, and it's Sean Taylor day. How can you not be ready to go?

That sloppy effort shows me that Zorn has lost the team, or that he never had the team in the first place. Zorn is in over his head, and he has no business being a head coach. He's a nice guy who is a quarterbacks coach and nothing more. We can't change coaches every year, so I guess we have to keep him. I'd like to see Campbell in the same system for a few years in a row. In the final analysis, Zorn should be graded on his development of Campbell. Zorn is not a head coach, and he never will be.

Posted by: gaspeny | December 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn is not a head coach, and he never will be"

Nothing more needs to be said....please don't ever reproduce for the betterment of society in general.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

4th -- my week in FF was nuts.

Had 4 guys who came up huge. DeAngelo Williams with 4(!) TDs, Fitzgerald with 2, LenDale White with 2 and my FG kicker was good, too.

But the Packers defense got me -1 point, Reggie Wayne got 4 and my QB, Rivers, got 8. They average over 40+ points

There was a lot of great and a lot of stink and nothing in between

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Zorn went in and won at Dallas and at Philly, he started 6-2 when this team had on paper an incredibly daunting starting schedule. Zorn is a good coach, you can't judge him when he doesn't have the horses to ride. His oline is old and can't protect, his defense is pretty good but rarely makes dynamic game changing plays or scores, his special teams are terrible and his entire offense centers around one guy like it has for years here. All of this he inherited and still he's done pretty darn well with it. Give him some legit receivers and a decent oline then we'll see if he's a good coach or not.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Even if they do make the playoffs, does anyone honestly believe the skins can do some damage. I just dont see it.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Give him some legit receivers

zj, how many times did they throw the ball to Thomas on Sunday?

How about if they actually THROW the ball to the Rookies, and get them involved with the offense?? I mean, I know that might disrupt the scoring machine that they are right now. I'd hate to score more than 1 touchdown a game or something like that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Real Question, who replaced T15C next season? We need a backup with a WC background.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Read Boswell's column or listen to Wilbon's chat today. The Redskins simply get dominated on both lines by better teams. No playcalling or trick plays is going to beat a well-coached, physically superior team like the Giants, Steelers or Cowboys. Same weaknessess that existed at the end of last year (age on both lines, lack of pass rush, and no talent at WR by Moss) still exist. The three losses in the last 4 weeks just magnified what a poor job Vinny and Danny did of addressing the Redskins needs in the offseason.

The true contenders commit draft picks to build both of their lines. The Redskins have used only one No. 1 or 2 draft pick since 2000 on a lineman (Samuels). Is it surprising that the Giants and Cowboys who have drafted young talent on both lines are stronger at the line completely dominated us up front? Games are won in the trenches and the Redskins are mediocre on both lines with a lot of aging veterans.

This was a 9-7 team at best going into the season and we've lost to the teams we expected to except St. Louis. I was never on the bandwagon that this team would win its division or even get to the playoffs....too much work to make this team into a contender. Another loss to a tough Baltimore team is imminent and a couple of wins against Cincy and SF. If we beat Philly at home, we'll have surpassed a lot of expectations.

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I'll have more on this after my win is secure (I don't wanna jinx my potential 6 game winning streak)......

Posted by: 4thFloor

Congrats on your six straight win this week 4th

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 1, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Jacky-Z, love the paragraph breaks in your prose, big help, thanks!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, he threw to Kelly and he dropped it, he threw to ARE and he dropped it, he threw to thrash and he dropped it, I highly doubt he chose not to throw to Thomas cause everyone else was doing so well, my guess is Thomas wasn't open. Plus he's thrown to Thomas in the past, like last week and he dropped it, and before that he couldn't line up properly, and before that he couldn't run a route without a penalty......just stop it with beating the drum that Thomas is this all talented under utilized player.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Its very clear. The front office did not help the 2008 team in the offseason.

I've mentioned it before. They didn't know whether to rebuild (draft 10 guys and keep them all) or to go for it (keep all the starters and sign Jason Taylor)

Personally, I think this was a 'go for it' year. Which would have meant getting another playmaker at WR. Take a shot before the o-line has to be rebuilt.

But the Spaghetti Gang tried to do 2 things at once -- and got a middle of the road result

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I can't take all the negative vibes. Talk to you all on Sunday.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 1, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

4th, unless Slaton gets 37 points, you win. Thats a 2td, 200 yards kind of game. Like the game Michael Turner had for you in the first week -- vs me

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

You guy's are worst than woman on her P-day ! Shut up and support the team, or don't comment.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Read Boswell's column or listen to Wilbon's chat today. ...

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 1, 2008 2:54 PM

You had me at Boswell, but you lost me by Wilbon.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"How about if they actually THROW the ball to the Rookies, and get them involved with the offense??"

If it were only that simple... (biting my tongue)

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 is the only person on this blog that makes sense 100% of the time.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I am so defeated and empty inside. Now I know what Old Hank meant when he sang about a lost highway. We will never be really good again until Vinny is run out of town on a rail. It all starts up front. Drafting skill players is great and all but games are won in the trenches. Period.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 1, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

We didn't lose because the Sean Taylor ceremony was before the game. We lost because we're not as good as the Giants.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Here is some logic:

"my guess is Thomas wasn't open. Plus he's thrown to Thomas in the past, like last week and he dropped it, and before that he couldn't line up properly, and before that he couldn't run a route without a penalty"

So then based on this logic, we should just cut this guy, because no one else on the team EVER committs a penalty, right

Not using these guys is the reason that defending the Redskins is as follows:

"you double Moss on first down, play the run on second down and double TE Chris Cooley on third down, that's all the Skins have"

Throw 10 passes at Kelly/Thomas and suddenly the other team HAS TO stop doubling Moss, in order to prevent this from continueing.

Instead, we get 2 passes at Kelly, and 1 at Thomas with 3 minutes left, and gee, I can't figure out why we only scored 7 points. Stop forcing passes at Thrash.

Did you ever think that by NOT changing the game plan ONE IOTA, Zorn was playing RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE OTHER TEAMS DEFENSE......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

You guy's are worst than woman on her P-day ! Shut up and support the team, or don't comment.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

love this post, cause that's what being a fan is, ignoring the mediocrity of this team and the retardness/greed of this owner, and the stupidity of this FO and just shut up and support the team....no wonder Snyder still owns the highest revenue producing team in the league even though he hasn't produced a consistently decent product in his entire tenure as owner, its idiots like you.....even Baltimore Orioles fans finally got fed up with Angelos and started making noise about the stupidity of that franchise, how long does it take for the rest of you with Snyder and the skins? Another 15 years?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

DOES EVERYONE KNOW THAT DETROIT HAS MORE TD'S THAN THE REDSKINS THIS YEAR???
Detroit - 22 TD's
Washington - 21 TD's.

that's right. a team 0-12 has a better offense than Washington.

Posted by: tbarz1 | December 1, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Daggarforracialjustice is the only person on this blog that makes sense 100% of the time.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"This was a 9-7 team at best going into the season"

This was a 9-7 team last season, except without the 10 draft picks, Jason Taylor, a healthy starting QB, a healthy starting RG, a healthy starting RT, a healthy starting OLB, a healthy starting CB, and the obstacle of dealing with the death their best player.

This season, they had everybody they had to end LAST year, PLUS 10 draft picks, an all-pro DE, and their healthy starting QB, RG, RT, OLB, CB -- oh and now the addition of ANOTHER all-pro cornerback.

I hardly had the expectations of being less than or equal to last season's results.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

We didn't lose because the Sean Taylor ceremony was before the game. We lost because we're not as good as the Giants.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

agreed, but I don't think it helps to go in to a game that you're overmatched in thinking about all kinds of stuff not related to football, I gotta agree with Doc on this one, you don't go to a wake before you go to a fight, causing doing a bunch of crying and being sad doesn't get you ready to smack somebody in the mouth.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

*** FF post ***

[zcezcest, note the convention]

dcsween leads the ORIGINAL (and previously arguably better) RI FF league at 9-3 ... and Hamstweengs has been carried by Shaun Hill (QB/SF!) for several weeks now.

My secrets to success at the ESPN format FF: watch the preseason for freak players (then curse when someone picks up Cutler before you get him ... and smirk after you pick up Chris Johnson and nobody knows who he is) ... cut underperformers regularly ... pick up FA players based on the highest "projected" point total for the next week (that third green column) ... count on opponents who don't check their rosters very often.

*** end FF post ***

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Rrmember when our boys were walking off the field in Philly yelling "There's a new beast in the east" at their fans. Hope we can at least beat them when they come to D.C.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"love this post, cause that's what being a fan is, ignoring the mediocrity of this team and the retardness/greed of this owner, and the stupidity of this FO and just shut up and support the team"

Put your money where your mouth is and stop following the team if you're so smart...lets see you put up or shut up....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Did you ever think that by NOT changing the game plan ONE IOTA, Zorn was playing RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE OTHER TEAMS DEFENSE......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Bean, this last part makes sense, Zorn has to adjust and change up what he's doing, no argument there, but plz plz plz stop the "so we should cut him now retort" that's not what I or anybody else is saying.

I hope the kid develops and gets it next year, and Kelly too (who I actually think is showing potential) my point is was and in january when we're watching the playoffs will be....

This season's failure falls squarely on a front office that completely ignored glaring weaknesses in an effort to add a weapon at receiver by over drafting the position, and then cutting all vet talent forcing us to rely on two youngsters who obviously don't get it yet. Not saying cut them, just saying they haven't stepped up yet obviously

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Daggarforracialjustice = troll....Please don't feed.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

*** FF post ***

Whaaaa! This coming week is the last week of the regular season for FF football!!

*** end FF post ***

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

+++JC needs to stop checking down and take some chances down the field, forget stats or being worried about Int's.

Posted by: Flounder21

I agree. I think JC needs to be reminded that he is in fact playing for his next contract. Put it up and lets see how bad the receivers want it.

Posted by: Predator48+++

Since trunovers are a key indicator of victory and QB ratings, the chances of either of those happening are nil--nor should they happen.

The idea is to throw it to your guy. As far as "going to get it" sure, but put it in a place where the other team can't go and get it.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

chRIslARrYforspeCIaLbreaKfAst, do you get any paternidad leave? or is there no rest for the weary?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

*** FF post ***
Sween, gotta agree with your approach. I took zero rookies. Took WRs 1&2 (I was about 15th pick), then Rivers and D Williams. Probably would have been good to pick a rookie RB and see if they panned out.

I went after RBs that were on the bench behind top guys -- figuring one injury and I'm good. Had Rhodes (behind Addai) but let him go. Also Fred Jackson, Chester Taylor and Darren Sproles.

I refused to pick any NFC East players other than Skins players -- and I got none of them. Zornskins, who is cleaning up in the league, has romo. Would hate to see him win with romo leading the way. Hate it Hate Hate it

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

That means one thing Sween,

RIers must find a new thing to prepare to waste time with.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Jack,

I think Greg has a point. You're so consumed by Snyder hate that it infects everything you've written up here today. Well, Snyder's here for the duration. He's the owner. He's not selling. He's a young man and he's going to be the owner as long as you're alive. So you're facing a lifetime of Snyder hate. Why don't you root for a team whose owner you can respect and admire? New England? Baltimore? Atlanta?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Beantown,

There is likely a direct correspondence between the amount opportunities a rookie is offered to the success he has when he gets the chance. If Kelly had not dropped his first two passes yesterday he would have had more opportunities. If Thomas had not had a similar history at failing to make key catches then he would problably have gotten more chances. Now that Thomas has demonstrated that he can run the ball well on a reverse I bet that another reverse will be called with him running it. From the tv broadcast I could not tell if they were open on most plays but that the ball was not delivered. I would expect that they were not open by a margin that Campbell felt justified to throw to them. Not only the coach but the quarterback also has to have faith in them before trusting them with the ball.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

How do you shoot yourself in the leg and plead "not guilty" to gun possession?

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Paternity leave over BOO!....but thats why I am posting more...haha

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding me? he drops passes, he causes penalties, he can't get open, THESE ARE YOUR WORDS. Why in the WORLD would you keep a player like this??

Try involving the player in the game plan, for oh, I don't know, 3-4 games in a row, where, you actually THROW THE BALL TO THEM consistently, and THEN, and ONLY THEN, come back and give me a review on the guy.

Thomas touched the ball once on Sunday, and Kelly twice. Somehow they're supposed to develop a rapport with the qb, by getting the ball thrown to them 3 times in a game? Somehow this is supposed to open things up for Moss/Cooley/Portis. Royal, Jackson, are successful, because they get the ball THROWN TO THEM MORE THAN ONCE A GAME!!!!

Kelly caught 2 passes last game vs. Seattle, and Thomas NONE, but its because they're not contributing to the offense, thats why the Redskins can't score.

It couldn't be that they're not being utilized...of course not.

So for those keeping track at home, in the last 2 games, they threw the ball to them at most 7 times. In 2 games.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

How do you shoot yourself in the leg and plead "not guilty" to gun possession?

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:28 PM |

"Your honor, I did not have a gun. Mr. Pierce, the linebacker, put that loaded gun into my pocket and it went off while he was sliding it in there. You have the wrong man. Why, that firearm isn't even registered to me."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

beep beep.

driley, how many drops did cooley have, or moss have yesterday?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

****Fantasy Post******

4th, unless Slaton gets 37 points, you win. Thats a 2td, 200 yards kind of game. Like the game Michael Turner had for you in the first week -- vs me

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 1, 2008 3:04 PM


Ahhh, that was you! I remember that game very well!

***End Post But Expect Another Until Redskins Conversation Changes*****

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Daggarforracialjustice = troll....Please don't feed.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Daggarforracialjustice is the only person on this blog that makes sense 100% of the time.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

+++mack, I don't think anyone on here is a as you put it, "front office defender", what I am is I try and be logical.

Like for example, calling a rookie a 'bust' at this point, is not logical.

Hope that helps.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg+++

Mr. Spock, saying there are no "front office defenders" here is beyond ILLOGICAL.

You make a valid point about rookies.

However:

*Durant Brooks was such a "bust" the 'skins cut him.

*With Zorn's expressed desire for three and four wide sets, with a glaring need for a 3rd or even 2nd wideout to get on the field, NEITHER of the 2nd rounders have made any contribution.

*Does Rinehart even play special teams?

*Tryon, the third rounder couldn't get on the field, until after Torrence was cut.

So yes, you can't call any rookie but Brooks a Redskins "bust," but other than Horton, none have contributed. No UFA's have, either. And the FA's brought in at receiver have been busts too.

You can't keep doing that in the NFC East and expect to be anything but an also-ran.

While not rookies, both Erasmus James and Jason Taylor have been busts this year, too.


Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

whats wrong with Heyer? Why isnt he out there?

Posted by: ryjufox3 | December 1, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

As a Portis fantasy owner I am happy he got me to the dance, but it's looking like M Turner will have to the dancing.
All things aside if Portis knee is holding up he should keep playing, just a mean Steelers, Giants, and now Ravens defense doesn't bode well for any running back. Portis is the lone bright spot on that crappy offense.
The O Line is abysmal plain and simple.

Posted by: keithlb28 | December 2, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

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