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Zorn on Hall, Biking with Bush, the Bye

Jim Zorn said he believes he has sufficient leadership and character is his locker room to take on a outsized personality like corner DeAngelo Hall, and said the team agonized over the decision to cut depth corner Leigh Torrence.

Zorn praised Hall's ability and coverage skills and said the two time Pro Bowler "will have to earn his teammates' respect" after getting a reputation for having had problems in the locker room in the past. Zorn believes Hall craved the structure the Redskins present as well as a no-nonsense coaching staff. Hall spent much of Saturday chatting with corner coach Jerry Gray, and that ultimately led him to chose the Redskins over other suitors, Zorn believes.

Zorn said that Hall will also have to earn playing time and could end up taking some of Torrence's significant responsibilities on special teams. "He's not a starting corner yet," Zorn said of Hall, so "he's got to participate" on special teams. Zorn said Hall could end up returning a punt or two, but only on a limited basis, the way the club uses Santana Moss in such situations.

As for how much Hall ends up playing, "I don't know how the combinations will go," Zorn said of having four veteran corners now.

Zorn and the coaches spent part of last week analyzing the team and making changes, and he said those meetings resulted in some scheme changes (without going into specifics) as well as some changes in the "direction" of the team. The coaches also discussed whether they were asking enough out of players.

"Can we demand more?" Zorn said. "Do we need to demand more?"

Zorn spent Saturday and Sunday biking with President George W. Bush, something that he has done with more regularity. Bush took him to school, Zorn said. "He rode me into the ground," Zorn said. "He's in fantastic shape."

As for letting Torrence go, Zorn said the popular corner was not the last man on the roster, but the team had an abundance of corners. Zorn called it a "very tough decision" and is "fully expecting" Torrence to be on another team's roster shortly. Executive Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato declined media requests to speak about the Hall signing and Torrence release.

Several players said they were shocked and saddened to see Torrence go, and figured his stellar special-teams play and ability to serve as a slot corner made him safe, even with Hall arriving. "That's a hard one to get over," one veteran said. "DeAngelo is a good corner and I'm glad we got him, but I still can't believe we got rid of Leigh."

Should Shawn Springs suffer another injury, several players said they are unsure who would replace him playing the slot in nickel situations, with Torrence getting an abundance of snaps there in the past. "I have no idea what we'd do," one player said. "Ask Coach Blache."

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 10, 2008; 4:00 PM ET
 
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Next: Torrence Finds Spot in New Orleans

Comments

eventually!

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

1) Shawn Springs
2) Carlos Rogers
3) Fred Smoot
4) Leigh Torrence
5) Justin Tryon


1) Shawn Springs
2) Carlos Rogers
3) Fred Smoot
4) DeAngelo Hall
5) Justin Tryon


funny how our #5 wasn't a big deal AT ALL until now all of a sudden our #5 corner IS a huge deal that will keep us out of the playoffs.

Come on...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Man, I'm getting depressed. I'm going to put my tickets up for sale on Pittsburgh Craigslist. What?

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Truth, I think today was the first day the media got (team sponsored) access to the team, so it's probably "what there is" to talk about. An offseason, a preseason, and eight games into it, I'd be surprised if players didn't want to talk about Torrence leaving.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

"Should Shawn Springs suffer another injury, several players said they are unsure who would replace him playing the slot in nickel situations, with Torrence getting an abundance of snaps there in the past. "I have no idea what we'd do," one player said. "Ask Coach Blache."

I don't understand this? Here's a wild idea, DeAngelo Hall would. Or Smoot would, with Hall playing on the outside. We have 4 very good corners and 2 very good safeties now, why is jlc belaboring this idiotic notion that we'll crumble without crappy Torrence?

Posted by: bmd5 | November 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

He's ridden pretty much everybody into the ground, so that part comes as no surprise.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"Truth, I think today was the first day the media got (team sponsored) access to the team, so it's probably "what there is" to talk about. An offseason, a preseason, and eight games into it, I'd be surprised if players didn't want to talk about Torrence leaving.

Posted by: dcsween |"

Actually I'd be surprised if they DID want to talk about it.

I doubt very much they were looking around for JLC or any reporter to vent on their displeasure with Leigh being cut.

These are grown men. NFL is a business. They know the deal. And we upgraded at one position when we signed Hall/cut Torrence, there was not one other position affected on the depth chart.

#4 corner was the only position affected, and DHall is an upgrade. #3 corner wasn't affected, #5 corner wasn't affected.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"Should Shawn Springs suffer another injury, several players said they are unsure who would replace him playing the slot in nickel situations, with Torrence getting an abundance of snaps there in the past. "I have no idea what we'd do," one player said. "Ask Coach Blache."

I don't understand this? Here's a wild idea, DeAngelo Hall would. Or Smoot would, with Hall playing on the outside. We have 4 very good corners and 2 very good safeties now, why is jlc belaboring this idiotic notion that we'll crumble without crappy Torrence?

Posted by: bmd5 | November 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

D Hall, Smoot and Carlos have all played the outside WR positions but none have really specialize on the Slot Reciever. They are played differently with this receiver usually being the playing off the line and running inside. They usually go in motion and require different skill sets. That's not to say it can't be done only that none of those players usually play the slot. Torrence and Springs do.

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

zorn pals around with bush????? ugh!!! strike 4!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

what were the first 3 strikes for?

Posted by: Moose33 | November 10, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

From Redskins blog :

"Addressing the obvious first: yes, DeAngelo Hall was out at practice, and yes, he looked good at cornerback, even pulling down an interception against Jason Campbell. And his supposed locker-room-cancerhood, the disruption of the fragile team chemistry, that didn’t show up yet either. He and Carlos Rogers were chatting and laughing on the sidelines, and he looked, on the whole, like a solid addition."

http://theredskinsblog.com/2008/11/10/on-the-field-for-practice-1110/#more-2482


And it begins, we're tanking. Our franchise is in shambles. Woe is me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Hall will thrive here! He will be our #1 corner by years end and they'll be negotiating a contract extension before the season ends. Or not.

Posted by: tdpillo123 | November 10, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Again, what the he!! has Torrence done to justify all this "ringing of hands?" I honestly can't remember anything good that he's done? I remember him getting burnt on more than one occasion. I remember him watching punts bounce into the end zone instead of downind them.....Still can't think of anything?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | November 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Truth, I doubt it was displeasure (which connotes displeasure with or at someone) as remorse, which is within the self.

I also think you're missing the point about the slot corner position. Springs is tallest, heaviest guy on the roster (and the hardest hitter ... except for maybe that clock cleaning that Rogers put on Cribbs). The point is that Torrence (5'11") came in for Springs (6'0") on slot receivers. I don't think all corners are interchangeable and, at the position, there are different important skill sets.

[fyi, Hall is 5'10" ... Tryon is 5'9".]

While I agree that Hall has a (MUCH) more exciting highlight reel than Torrence, seems beside the point to call out a BLOG THREAD for talking about what other players think about Torrence. Also, though everyone clearly remembers the Torrence-Avery shabingus, I'm sure that Hall will have one or two of those (as any corner is likely to have). Rogers' career highlight reel has some doozies that I would love to forget ... maybe he will help me out with that if he keeps up with what he's been doing.

Bottom line: Breathe in. Breathe out. Stay medium. Suddenly.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Gentlemen - we've got those pesky Cowpokes right where we want them!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

By the way coach Zorn, what the hell happened to the 17 to 22 yard pass? How about some medium range passes to utilize Moss and ARE quickness? Pick it up Campbell! Am I the only one who thinks the Skins are actually getting worse?

Posted by: tdpillo123 | November 10, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"D Hall, Smoot and Carlos have all played the outside WR positions but none have really specialize on the Slot Reciever. They are played differently with this receiver usually being the playing off the line and running inside. They usually go in motion and require different skill sets. That's not to say it can't be done only that none of those players usually play the slot. Torrence and Springs do."

Is this a joke? Are you seriously suggesting neither Hall, Smoot or Rogers couldn't do a better job in their sleep on a slot receiver than Torrence? The guy was constantly getting beat - I was extremely nervous whenever I saw him out there. I think cutting him was just a sound football move. He's not very good.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | November 10, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Let's see here...

Leigh Torrance being cut vs. Clinton Portis being 50-50 for Sunday.

Hard to tell which is more important to this franchise's playoff hopes.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

From the Zorn Presser:

On the progress of Ladell Betts:
“We’re going to inject him into some parts of practice this week, see how he does.”

On what he saw coming back from the bye week:
“I saw everybody paying attention. I think we set new challenges for the last two quarters of this football season. It was good for everybody to have a break. I think the coaches as well as the players have a good outlook on what we’ve got going starting today.”

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Torrence may not have been a good cover cornerback, but he could cook a great grilled cheese sandwich during training camp

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

moose, pay no attention to my counting please...

btw:
how about use the obama chant when we're in the red zone: "YES! we can!"
Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 2:08 PM

and turns out zorn had a similar idea to use that chant. he talks about obama's rallying chant "yes we can" and "change" in his post practice media blitz thingie...

who's the insider now? ;) you betcha!

Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

dealer, are you a Wasilla hillbilly?

A good grilled cheese sandwich uses only a thin spread of butter in order to maximize toastage. A great grilled cheese sandwich has that AND some ham, gruyere cheese, and a couple of slices of beefsteak tomato.

I am an expert on these matters.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 10, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Is this a joke? Are you seriously suggesting neither Hall, Smoot or Rogers couldn't do a better job in their sleep on a slot receiver than Torrence? The guy was constantly getting beat - I was extremely nervous whenever I saw him out there. I think cutting him was just a sound football move. He's not very good.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | November 10, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

No, It wasn't a joke. No I never suggested that those guys COULDN'T be better than Torrence in the slot. No, I have no idea whether or not anyone of them WILL be better in the slot than Leigh Torrence in the slot. No, neither do you.

I trust that this was thought of by the coaching staff before this decision was made. Having said that "unnamed players" were apprehensive of it so I'm concerned enough about the move while not panicking.

4th,

I believe my use of caps was definition #2.

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Let's see here...

Leigh Torrance being cut vs. Clinton Portis being 50-50 for Sunday.

Hard to tell which is more important to this franchise's playoff hopes.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse


Well played Diddy.

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

AFC Wimbledon losing 1-4 to wycombe. ars*s

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | November 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

here's what i'm hoping for carlos and hall to be the shutdown corners like champ and smoot were...only better.

i mean...the dude can't go from being a probowler at the age of 23 and worse than leigh torrence at the age of 25. i refuse to believe that scenerio. "not gonna happen".

Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Of course Clinton Portis is going to play.

You young whippersnappers ain't been around long enough to realize that Jim Zorn not only appropriated George Allen's old-school "hip, hip,hooray," but has also adopted Allen's penchant for chicanery during Dallas week.

Let the Cowgirls think Portis may not play.

That's just what we WANT them to think!

:)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 10, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

On Kelly -

Of course, there’s also the chance that he won’t. “I’m hoping that Sunday morning, I’ll have a difficult decision at the wide receiver position,” Zorn said, “because I’ve got too many.”

Too many? Outside of Randle-El and Moss, who is he talking about?

Posted by: charley42 | November 10, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

... #4 corner was the only position affected, and DHall is an upgrade. #3 corner wasn't affected, #5 corner wasn't affected.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:19 PM

My guess, however, is that the #5 corner's sphincter tightened up considerably upon hearing that the Skins were signing Hall.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

diddy, are you calling our future president a waisilla hillbilly? say it aint so diddy!

take out the ham and leave the tomatoes and american, and only american cheese...yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. ohh and i like wheat better than white...sorry.

Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

charley, he's talking about kelly, moss, thomas, are...basically he's hinting at kelly being active...FINALLY...

Posted by: dealer1 | November 10, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

My guess, however, is that the #5 corner's sphincter tightened up considerably upon hearing that the Skins were signing Hall.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

clinchpoop?

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"My guess, however, is that the #5 corner's sphincter tightened up considerably upon hearing that the Skins were signing Hall.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:45 PM"

I honestly have no comment on Justin Tryon's sphincter.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

... A good grilled cheese sandwich uses only a thin spread of butter in order to maximize toastage. A great grilled cheese sandwich has that AND some ham, gruyere cheese, and a couple of slices of beefsteak tomato. ...

Posted by: PDiddy | November 10, 2008 4:38 PM

Hombre, I am right there with you. All that, plus multiple (at least three) kinds of cheese ... on the bread called "Texas toast" (which personally I call "Freedom bread"), so that it has to be steamed at the same time it is being grilled. [There was a bar called PT O'Malley's at Michigan State who created this ... the Tommy Tomato.] gllrrhhhhh (in Homer voice).

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

To be honest, im glad torrence got cut. He lost us the rams game giving up a 40 yd play when he should have been playing off preventing the deep ball at all costs, and in my opinion the job he did on the punt coverage was below average, he was constantly getting twisted around and letting balls bounce at the 5 yd line and roll past him into the endzone.

Posted by: DaFunBunch | November 10, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

and there is no reason for this to be a concern, because hall is simply a much better corner than torrence is, no way he would have been beaten deep vs st louis and they think tryon is going to develope into something better than torrence, who couldnt tackle by the way

Posted by: DaFunBunch | November 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

“I’m hoping that Sunday morning, I’ll have a difficult decision at the wide receiver position,” Zorn said, “because I’ve got too many.”

Too many? Outside of Randle-El and Moss, who is he talking about?

Posted by: charley42 | November 10, 2008 4:44 PM

I think he's talking about too many difficult decisions, not too many wide receivers.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Who has cooler glasses, Sarah Palin or Jerry Gray?

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins__Reaction__Hall_Adds_Significant_Depth_26889.jsp

[Also, extra credit for identifying the angry-toed player in the left of the photo.]

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse


Can Hall play RB?

Posted by: TheCork | November 10, 2008 3:21 PM |

No, that was Leigh Torrence. But they gave Tryon a few reps at RB in practice today.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 10, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I heard Antonio Pierce played RB in high school. Too bad we let him walk away...

Posted by: Gweez | November 10, 2008 3:52 PM

Hall can play the Wildcat. He averaged 10 ards per touch in High School. Now that's talent.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 10, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"To be honest, im glad torrence got cut. He lost us the rams game giving up a 40 yd play when he should have been playing off preventing the deep ball at all costs, and in my opinion the job he did on the punt coverage was below average, he was constantly getting twisted around and letting balls bounce at the 5 yd line and roll past him into the endzone.

Posted by: DaFunBunch"

I have no problem with Torrence being cut, but people are just so wrong on the one play against the Rams.

First, he WAS playing off. It was an underthrown ball, he was playing the deep ball, that's why it was caught.

And as someone who played corner (although badly), I will reiterate what has been pointed out before - that underthrown balls are the toughest to defend. He really didn't do THAT bad of a job on that play. Unfortunate obviously, but it wasn't bad technique or anything.

And then wasn't it Kareem Moore who was supposed to blitz on that play?

But still, no beef with Torrence getting cut.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn spent Saturday and Sunday biking with President George W. Bush, something that he has done with more regularity. Bush took him to school, Zorn said. "He rode me into the ground," Zorn said. "He's in fantastic shape.""

There you go all you conspiracy theorist. Torrence was a BIG VOCAL OBAMA supportter. While our last head coach spoke at the RNC Convention and JZ regularly bike rides with the 'Hated' one AKA #43.

So, the FO and head coach was so mad they picked up Hall just so they could cut Torrence by the time JZ made it for his afternoon Bike Ride with the prez. Then they laughed all the way to the bank.....

That makes complete sense.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 10, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

beep beep.

Torrence found work already.

Posted by: dcsween | November 10, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Is this a joke? Are you seriously suggesting neither Hall, Smoot or Rogers couldn't do a better job in their sleep on a slot receiver than Torrence? The guy was constantly getting beat - I was extremely nervous whenever I saw him out there. I think cutting him was just a sound football move. He's not very good.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | November 10, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

No, It wasn't a joke. No I never suggested that those guys COULDN'T be better than Torrence in the slot. No, I have no idea whether or not anyone of them WILL be better in the slot than Leigh Torrence in the slot. No, neither do you.

------------------------------------------

Well, I respectfully submit that I do know that any one of those three would be better than Torrence at any aspect of pass coverage. Hall is a two time Pro Bowler, Rogers is having a Pro Bowl season, and Smoot is a very solid veteran. It seemed obvious he just wasn't going to get there, and the FO agrees.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | November 10, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

My replies to previous posts are as follows:

1) I AM CONCERNED about the situation at RB for this week. Possibilities range from simple gamesmanship and the Skins will have their 1-2 punch of Portis/Betts charging hard this week all the way to a chance that they will be without both.

2) I do find it hard to believe that the Skins would not have been better off trying to move Tryon to the Practice Squad and keeping Torrence around, but I think that the Skins may have prefered releasing the guy (L. Torrence) on the last year of his deal and keeping the guy (J. Tryon) they have signed to a multi-year deal. Makes sense long-term.

3) I agree w/dcsween about a grilled cheese being much better with a mix of cheeses, but I submit that it should be made with thick slices of sourdough bread. MMMMMMM

Posted by: SportzWiz | November 10, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

While I understand the affinity for Leigh Torrence, it's not like he won't find work. Dude went to Stanford and interned on the Hill.

Love the signing of Hall, only 24, and will play with something to prove. May allow Skins to finally part ways with the cap stifling and seemingly always hurt #24.

Hate to say it....but Vinny is not doing that bad of job.

Posted by: ksquare | November 10, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

And as someone who played corner (although badly), I will reiterate what has been pointed out before - that underthrown balls are the toughest to defend. He really didn't do THAT bad of a job on that play. Unfortunate obviously, but it wasn't bad technique or anything.

And then wasn't it Kareem Moore who was supposed to blitz on that play?

But still, no beef with Torrence getting cut.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 10, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you, Truth. I've played some corner also. You are not going to stop every pass. The only criticism on Torrence on that play, and an overall weakness of his, was that he didn't get his head turned around early enough to pick up the ball. That was what seemed to hurt him on downing punts also.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 10, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Adam Schefter
Redskins even bigger winners in move for Hall

Posted: November 9th, 2008 | Adam Schefter | Tags: DeAngelo Hall, Oakland Raiders, Washington Redskins

One fact further illustrates just how bad and embarrassing Oakland’s trade for cornerback DeAngelo Hall this offseason actually was.

In addition to a fifth-round pick, the Raiders also traded a second-round pick, the 34th overall selection, to Atlanta for Hall. Well, on draft day, the Falcons wound up trading the 34th and 48th overall pick to Washington for the 21st overall pick.

Now, some six months later, the Redskins wound up with Hall and the Raiders second-round pick, which they used on Michigan State wide receiver Devon Thomas. And it cost Oakland $8 million!

Posted by: dbussjd | November 10, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Not that Torrence was great cover corner, but Tryon should have been cut in training camp. The guy flat out can't play and the Skins didn't cut home because they used a 4th round draft pick. Same reason that they kept Durant around as punter 3 weeks longer than he deserved.

If the Skins cut Tyron, Durant, and put Kelly on IR this week, that makes Vinny look bad. Only Horton has had any impact of all the draft picks. Look at the draft picks of Dallas, NY, and Philly who are actually playing this year. I cringe every time S. Jackson of Philly makes a big play for Philly while our two 2nd round WR's do nothing.

Posted by: wizfan89 | November 10, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

nice, SMACK, nice.
Very sweenesque.

Sic
Question:

Who's a better corner Smoot or Hall?

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | November 10, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

They'll miss Torrence's "stellar play" on special teams. ???? Would that the part where he's missing tackles on kick coverage or failing to down punts?

He's a "solid nickel back"? Sure, just ask the Rams how solid his coverage is.

Hall is a significant upgrade. Period.

Posted by: SkinsfaninNebraska | November 10, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I don't care who it is, if the President of the US invites you to go somewhere you by God go! It's the chance of a lifetime! What a great story for your grandkids, not to mention the photo opp!!!

(Unless maybe if it was Richard Nixon inviting you to visit an office building late at night, or Bill Clinton inviting you into the oval office to "enjoy" a cigar, that is!) ;-)


Posted by: SkinsfaninNebraska | November 10, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Ade Jimoh > Leigh Torrence

Posted by: visionof75 | November 10, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Can I please state the obvious that no one has mentioned yet??!! WE FINALLY HAVE A DB WHO WILL CATCH THE FOOTBALL!!!! Carlos dropped another pick 6 just like last year in the playoffs against the Seahawks... both would have changed the momentum in each game respectively..

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | November 10, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

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