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K. Shanahan, LaFleur, Embree added to Redskins staff

(Updated 2:50 p.m.)

The Redskins made three coaching hires official today - including a new name that hadn't been previously batted around.

Kyle Shanahan's hiring as the Redskins' new offensive coordinator was hardly a secret - especially considering Mike Shanahan spilled the beans at his own introductory news conference two weeks ago - and we told you last week about Matt LaFleur, who was an offensive assistant under Kyle Shanahan in Houston and will serve as the Redskins' quarterbacks coach.

But a name that came from seemingly nowhere was Jon Embree's. He's the Redskins' new tight ends coach. Embree was apparently out of coaching last season and served as the Kansas City Chiefs' tight ends coach from 2006-08, which followed three seasons as an offensive assistant at UCLA.

Let's start with Kyle Shanahan, though.

"It is a thrill to have Kyle on board." Mike Shanahan said in the news release. "Not only because it represents a chance to work with my son, but because it brings to our staff the offensive mind that drove one of the most explosive and productive passing attacks in football the last two years."

There was no indication how the Shanahans and LaFleur might split offensive coaching duties and not a mention of who might be calling plays.

LaFleur spent the past two seasons with the Texans, where he worked closely with quarterback Matt Schaub last season and with the Houston receivers in his first season.

"Matt spent the last two seasons with Kyle and is well-versed in the system that we are trying to bring here to Washington," Mike Shanahan said. "I was very impressed with the work he did with Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson and expect him to have a similar impact with the Redskins."

As for the Embree, he was a standout player at the University of Colorado, played two seasons in the NFL with the Los Angeles Rams and got his break by coaching tight ends at his alma mater in 1993.

"Jon has worked with some of the best tight ends the game has ever seen, and he has not only been able to teach them, but to learn from them," Shanahan said. "Now he has an opportunity to bring all of that accumulated experience to another group of accomplished tight ends, and I'm very excited about the potential of that pairing."

The Redskins still have not announced assistants responsible for special teams, the offensive line, wide receivers, the defensive line or the secondary.

By Rick Maese  |  January 20, 2010; 2:35 PM ET
 
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Next: The morning buzz: Assessing the assistants

Comments

Wish we had ZIMMER on defense

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 20, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Skins930 | January 20, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

And could lose DAN SMITH on special teams. Have to put an asterisk becuse they are anything but. And don't say it's all on ARE. Bring back RUSTY TILMAN.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 20, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Who is John Embree?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 20, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Bio on John Embree:


http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/jon_embree/

Posted by: Skins930 | January 20, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse
Thanks, Skins930.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 20, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Let's go get two OT's, a LG, C, RB, sign CAMPBELL for two, a DT, SSLB, CB, and FS. Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 20, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I like how the staff is shaping up. There are coaches on staff that have a track record of developing all pros and pro bowlers. If the players buy in to the program, good things for the club should happen.

Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

If the player don't buy in they will be gone.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 20, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

like how the staff is shaping up. There are coaches on staff that have a track record of developing all pros and pro bowlers. If the players buy in to the program, good things for the club should happen.

Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

If they don't buy in they won't be here for long.

Posted by: wattsicon | January 20, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

The mock draft on NFL.com published by Bucky Brooks has the Redskins taking Trent Williams. They are saying Detroit won't pass up on Okung. I am okay with that. Williams has a lot of upside and he's not a reach at #4. I wish there was a way they could trade down and end up with both Bruce Campbell and Selvish Capers, but I can't see that happening unless Suh impossibly drops to #4. In Bucky's mock, he has Suh going at numero uno.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 3:02 PM

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Half of the league's starting LT's were NOT drafted in round 1. It is not a no-brainer to select a LT with the 4th pick. It is a quarterback league and you must take advantage when you're picking in the top 5....PERIOD. Pick the QB. Franchises struggle for years searching for a QB. The Skins must act now and develop him behind JC for one year. LT can be addressed in round 2.

Posted by: tramellcanady | January 20, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

That's a bad argument. There's far fewer first round tackles taken than QBs. Here's the top 10 QBs for this year.

Matt Schaub round 3
Peyton Manning round 1
Tony Romo undrafted
Aaron Rodgers round 1
Tom Brady round 6
Drew Brees round 2
Ben Roethlibergerpdq round 1
Phil Rivers round 1
Bret Favre round 2
Eli Manning round 1

How many are first rounders?
5

Here's the top ten left tackles?

Jake Long round 1
Marcus McNiel round 2
Ryan Clady round 1
Sam Baker round 1
D'Brickshaw Ferguson round 1
Jason Peters undrafted
Joe Thomas round 1
Bryant McKinnie round 1
Michael Roos round 2
Duane Brown round 1

How many are first rounders?
7

There are far fewer first round tackles taken so it stands to reason that most of the starters would be first ronders at that position. First round tackles have a much much lower bust rate. Were talking %20 compared to 50% for QBs. Busted left tackles often become right tackles. Busted QBs often become criminals or bag boys and they leave you with a much bigger cap hit.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

No Oline coach yet..?? Bring Bugel back and give him a gold card to buy his own "groceries".

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Embree is a curious choice. Not exactly the first name that comes up when discussing tight end coaches. He has experience though, and I'll take that over wide eyed hip-hip-hoorays all day long.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Shanny hasnt hired an OLine Coach indicates he wasnt just being polite when he asked Bugel to stay on.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I am interested in seeing an honest assessment of D. Thomas and M. Kelly. Zorn had to toe the party line because he was indebted to Cerrato for his job, but Shanahan et. al., has no allegiance to the receivers, so if they truly are busts, I anticipate them being treated as such.

Posted by: Salinas1 | January 20, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Yesterday, 980 reported the Skins have hired Jacob Burney as D line coach - and then later I saw an announcement about this on some website - the Skins site maybe?

But it seems to have disappeared.....

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 20, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Call me crazy, but if I were the QB coach I would sit down with Jason campbell right now. Tell him to draw up 25 passing plays that he would like to run. Then just have him play some light flag ball with some peeps using those plays, maybe a game of flag football or something in the streets.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 20, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I am interested in seeing an honest assessment of D. Thomas and M. Kelly. Zorn had to toe the party line because he was indebted to Cerrato for his job, but Shanahan et. al., has no allegiance to the receivers, so if they truly are busts, I anticipate them being treated as such.

Posted by: Salinas1 | January 20, 2010 3:12 PM

Honest assessment:

Closer to being busts than actual players. Each has had 1 good game in 2 seasons and going into their 3rd season and not being drafted by this FO, it's the proverbial make an impact this season or find a new team scenario for DT & MK.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Trent Williams. They are saying Detroit won't pass up on Okung. I am okay with that. Williams has a lot of upside and he's not a reach at #4.....

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 3:02 PM


Posted by: RedSkinHead


I have a probablem with T.Willams at #4 and I think it is a reach.
Its only 4 players should Redsins consider with that pick,
1)Suh
2)McCoy(DT)
3)Okung
4)Berry
The only reason I say Suh and McCoy first because we are switching to a 3/4.

Posted by: dsquare | January 20, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's a piece by Matt Bowen on this slow Wednesday:

===============

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Shanahan-makes-the-right-moves-in-DC.html

Posted by: Skins930 | January 20, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

From Jacob's wikipedia.org write up...
Strange though, he has been omitted in the latest write ups.. Wonder if Denver made a counter offer?
===========================================

Jacob Burney
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Jacob Burney (born January 24, 1959 in Chattanooga, Tennessee) is the current defensive lines coach for the Washington Redskins. He has been coaching for the Redskins since 2010.

He was a four-year starter at Tennessee-Chattanooga but went undrafted. He had tryouts with the Detroit Lions but was not signed to their roster.

He coached in the college ranks for 11 years for the University of Mexico, University of Tulsa, Mississippi State University, University of Wisconsin, UCLA, and University of Tennessee.

In 1994 he joined the Cleveland Browns to become their defensive line coach; he stayed there until 1998. In 1999 he joined the Carolina Panthers to be their defensive line coach and coached there until 2001. In 2002 he was hired for the same position by the Denver Broncos.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: glawrence007

That's genius and so easy! Teams will be lining up, not only to give away draft picks for aging overpaid primadonnas, but would love to pay AH the $25M and CP the $11M they are due this year!!

Maybe Bruce Allen will hire you!

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 20, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford with the 4th pick, get your tackle with the 2nd round pick.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 20, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Call me crazy, but if I were the QB coach I would sit down with Jason campbell right now. Tell him to draw up 25 passing plays that he would like to run. Then just have him play some light flag ball with some peeps using those plays, maybe a game of flag football or something in the streets.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 20, 2010 3:25 PM

Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his offseason vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Bradford may be on IR before preseason is over.. Twice dislocated shoulder is never the same without surgery to re-tighten the ligaments.
He should of been shut down.
==============================

Sam Bradford with the 4th pick, get your tackle with the 2nd round pick.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 20, 2010 3:31 PM

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford with the 4th pick, get your tackle with the 2nd round pick.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 20, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse


AAAARRRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Stu27 | January 20, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

The only 3 choices that we should indulge at #4 are: Okung, Suh, trade down. Thats it.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 20, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his off-season vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?
Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Really, why the hell would anyone leave town during a regime change.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 20, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

You mean you STILL don't know who will be calling plays??!?!!?!??!!

FYI - It's Kyle

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 20, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Look for Selvish Capers stock to soar after the combine. Guy was recruited as a tight end out of HS only he was to athletic to not be looked at on the O-line. Hes only played O-line in college and didn't preform overwhelmingly. Guys got great speed and agility. This is the type of player that will get a lot of attention in the combine and individual workouts.

Posted by: Stu27 | January 20, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Where's Mike Ditka when you need him??

He gave us picks 1-6 plus 1st & 3rd the following year in 1999 for Ricky Williams to move up from #12 pick to #5 pick!!

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Closer to being busts than actual players. Each has had 1 good game in 2 seasons and going into their 3rd season and not being drafted by this FO, it's the proverbial make an impact this season or find a new team scenario for DT & MK.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis was a "bust" too until we brought in the Sherms and Cooley got hurt. After a while you really really have to start to wonder which is more likely:

A) Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Jason Campbell, Chad Rhinehart, and Fred Davis are all bust.

Or

B) Our offense was poorly designed or was unable to execute due to the lack of an offensive line.

I'm leaning towards B. Thomas is supposed to be a fast deep threat. How is he supposed to get open and go deep on a 3 step drop? They are inexplicably trying to use MK12 as a deep threat. He's not that fast. The thing I find funny is that Santana Moss has become our posession receiver. I think MK12 needs to be the posession receiver, Moss needs to go to the slot and DT11 needs to go to the flanker posiiton. It just seems backwards right now. I'd rather see the tall guy with great hands as the posession receiver than the short guy that drops a lot of passes. I think Shanny will change a lot of things with how our players are used instead of just getting new players.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Call me crazy, but if I were the QB coach I would sit down with Jason campbell right now. Tell him to draw up 25 passing plays that he would like to run. Then just have him play some light flag ball with some peeps using those plays, maybe a game of flag football or something in the streets.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 20, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

You're assuming Campbell knows 25 pass plays. I thought he only knew 7:

1) Check down right
2) Check down left
3) Screen right
4) Screen left
5) Throw it high over the middle
6) Overthrow everything else
7) Hold the ball until either sacked, sacked and fumble, or run out of bounds.


And IMO if we pick a QB at #4 it will be Clausen not Bradford. He's used to playing behind a bad line, he played in a pro style offense with most of his snaps coming under center, he's durable, and despite losing his best weapon for most of the season and having a crap line he finished the season with 3,722 yards passing, a 68.8% completion rate, 161.42 passer rating, 28 touchdowns, and four interceptions. IMO he's the pick and get the tackle in the top of round 2.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Bradford may be on IR before preseason is over.. Twice dislocated shoulder is never the same without surgery to re-tighten the ligaments.
He should of been shut down.
==============================

After these type surgeries....The shoulder gets stronger...

See Brees, Drew

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 20, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his offseason vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM

Seems to me having a QB camp this early would violate some NFL rule. Irregardless, would Jason be in any type of shape to throw 200 passes a day after this past season at this point. All the players need time away to heal up and recharge. Also, I would think the new coaching staff need to get themselves situated here before heading off to evaluate the college peeps at the bowl games and combine. It's a long offseason, there is some time before both sides need to work together.

Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Really, why the hell would anyone leave town during a regime change.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 20, 2010 3:41 PM

I've got to believe he did this before he called his agent. Or else his agent really is that doofus in the TV ad who couldn't pronounce his name. Either way, it is seriously dumb. He had a phone convo with Shanahan and, maybe, his son before leaving. Not sure he actually met either of them.

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

He gave us picks 1-6 plus 1st & 3rd the following year in 1999 for Ricky Williams to move up from #12 pick to #5 pick!!

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 3:44 PM

Not being able to build a competitive playoff teams shows how bad of a FO the Skins have had. This really tells the story.

How refreshing to finally have football people running the show. Let's see what they can do with 5 picks compared to those bozos.

Posted by: Skins930 | January 20, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his offseason vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM
=====================================

you'd think he would be at Redskins Park busting his hump after 4-12, mentally and physically.. And meeting the new staff and getting a head start with the new program.... But, I believe he just left for his yearly off-season vacation spot, the Virgin Islands..

Sorta weird when you consider not too many miles away, in Haiti, Ken Harvey and the Redskins contingent, are involved in a horrific hell-on-earth scenario as they assist the Haitians.

JC needs a new publicist.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

You're assuming Campbell knows 25 pass plays. I thought he only knew 7:

1) Check down right
2) Check down left
3) Screen right
4) Screen left
5) Throw it high over the middle
6) Overthrow everything else
7) Hold the ball until either sacked, sacked and fumble, or run out of bounds.

Posted by: zjfr2

you forgot one:

Hail Mary out of bounds!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | January 20, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

The only 3 choices that we should indulge at #4 are: Okung, Suh, trade down. Thats it.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 20, 2010 3:41 PM

Suh will definitely be gone and Okung is 50/50.

If no trade partners I'd take Berry instead of Bradford.

This would be my draft board for the skins @ #4
1. Suh
2. Okung
3. Berry
4. McCoy (DT)
5. Clausen

Ideally you’d like to trade back…

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

B) Our offense was poorly designed or was unable to execute due to the lack of an offensive line.

I'm leaning towards B. Thomas is supposed to be a fast deep threat. How is he supposed to get open and go deep on a 3 step drop? They are inexplicably trying to use MK12 as a deep threat. He's not that fast. The thing I find funny is that Santana Moss has become our posession receiver. I think MK12 needs to be the posession receiver, Moss needs to go to the slot and DT11 needs to go to the flanker posiiton. It just seems backwards right now. I'd rather see the tall guy with great hands as the posession receiver than the short guy that drops a lot of passes. I think Shanny will change a lot of things with how our players are used instead of just getting new players.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse
I've had those same thoughts, PA. If we can solidify OL, I think new O design will make a huge difference.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 20, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his offseason vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM"

Of course. What QB isn't out there interviewing coaching candidates, structuring the staff personnel, grading the player personnel, and deciding who to keep and who to cut? Obviously, we missed the boat by not pulling to trigger to get Cutler.

Posted by: psps23 | January 20, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Last pass of the season..
More accurately, it was the "hail mary" (out of bounds to protect my QB rating) pass.
==========================
you forgot one:

Hail Mary out of bounds!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | January 20, 2010 3:53 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 3:44 PM

The past coaching staff failed at every aspect of coaching and most notably had to be player development. Zorn was stubborn to play younger players and when forced into action, Fred Davis made an impact. DT and MK were given several opportunities and for the most part couldn’t beat out ARE. I lay blame on the coaching staff and Vinny’s O-Line, but you can’t completely excuse the players for lack of production.

I think we will see if Rhino can stay sober and if DT & MK can play with a professional coaching staff and FO now in place.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, we missed the boat by not pulling to trigger to get Cutler.

Posted by: psps23 | January 20, 2010 3:54 PM

==================================
psps23.. I agree.. And so does Casserly..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTqk4Du4-wM


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Great idea! Me, too! Only one problem: Jason Campbell left Monday for his offseason vacation. Maybe they can find someone else who would be more interested in working with the new staff?

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 3:33 PM

So what? He took a vacation big deal.

I guarantee you that 99.9% of all professional athletes take some time to rest and heal up after their season ends.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 20, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

poor Rhino.. How times have changed..

My grandfather said there was once a shed at the old Redskins Park where the OLine would knock off many cases of beer after each practice.
====================================
I think we will see if Rhino can stay sober

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 4:06 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Wish we had ZIMMER on defense

Posted by: glawrence007


Good thing he stayed in cincy. Remember, nothing good EVER comes from being a former dallas cowf_ck.

F dallas!!!

Posted by: bhoang888 | January 20, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Maybe JC and LL are vactioning together, consoling each other.

I just cant read defenses, but my stats say i am pretty good.

I cant tackle or cover but i can make a big hit once a game and celebrate like i just won the SB.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chris_zz | January 20, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Several people on this board have mentioned that the skins need to take a qb with the 4th pick and get a tackle in the second round. This is the kind of thinking that has the skins in the state they are now. When you have a top 5 pick you have a chance to pick a player that is a cornerstone of your franchise for ten years. Why would you take a qb that is not even worth a top 10 pick let alone top 5. Bradford and Clausen are not slam dunk "franchise" qbs. Bradford is a product of the spread and is coming off injury. Clausen never lived up to the hype at ND despite having superior talent almost every Saturday. There is a reason why Parcells and the dolphins took a tackle when Matt Ryan was on the board. They would be better off getting o line help with their first two picks and going for someone like Lefevour or Snead who has first round measurables but had a bad season. We seen the blueprint that succesful franchises have followed, hopefully the skins will follow suit.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | January 20, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"Matt LaFleur, who was an offensive assistant under Kyle Shanahan in Houston and will serve as the Redskins' quarterbacks coach......There was no indication how the Shanahans and LaFleur might split offensive coaching duties and not a mention of who might be calling plays." Rick Maese
____________________________
Isn't the title QB's coach a pretty clear indication of what his coaching duties might be. And please, can we stop on the topic of play calling for just a little while. It's been beat over the head so much can we come up with some new stories around here. It's just the same old every year with you guys at the Post.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | January 20, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"Matt LaFleur, who was an offensive assistant under Kyle Shanahan in Houston and will serve as the Redskins' quarterbacks coach......There was no indication how the Shanahans and LaFleur might split offensive coaching duties and not a mention of who might be calling plays." Rick Maese
____________________________
Isn't the title QB's coach a pretty clear indication of what his coaching duties might be. And please, can we stop on the topic of play calling for just a little while. It's been beat over the head so much can we come up with some new stories around here. It's just the same old every year with you guys at the Post.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | January 20, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

This is GREAT NEWS, encouraging at the very least:

"I was very impressed with the work he did with Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson and expect him to have a similar impact with the Redskins." - SHANAHAN

Why? Notice he said: "Redskins" not "Campbell".

Posted by: hock1 | January 20, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

If no trade partners I'd take Berry instead of Bradford.

This would be my draft board for the skins @ #4
1. Suh
2. Okung
3. Berry
4. McCoy (DT)
5. Clausen

Ideally you’d like to trade back…


Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

__________________________________

QB's gotta be #3 after Okung... we can find FS replacement in FA... hell, bring back Ryan Clark, he's a FA.

I'm starting to get on the Clausen bandwagon... I just remember seeing a lot of ND games where the score seemed out of reach & how many times he brought them back to force OT or the other team was forced to drive for a score at the end of the game.

I just don't know why Kiper has such a mancrush on Bradford, considering his season was basically wiped out by the shoulder... not to mention the intangibles of Clausen always fighting to bring the Irish back because of their sorry defense... I just don't think Bradford has had to overcome/prevail like Clausen has.

Here are what scouts are saying, forget the insiders opinions:

A purely pocket passer with an above-average arm strength, Clausen has efficient footwork and depth on his drop from center. An efficient setup and over the top delivery motion, make him capable of making every NFL throw, including his specialty: the deep ball. Clausen consistently releases his passes before receivers have made their breaks, giving the defense little time to react. He reads defenses well and rarely is fooled by disguised coverage. Very accurate in the medium-to-long range area, this is a coveted trait in the NFL.

However, he does need to improve the speed of his delivery on quick, short passes, as they are a bit slow. He is not a threat to run out of the pocket. Even though he has added bulk over the last two years, he could still use extra lower body strength. Clausen also needs to learn to do a better job taking control of the huddle, and work work on short passes down the middle.

Clausen is one of the hottest commodities in NFL Draft circles. His stock is rising fast, similar to what happened to USC's Mark Sanchez last year. He is not the athlete Sanchez is, but he is every bit as good. He also shares another trait with the former Trojan star: a flair for playing the position. Clausen is a lock to be a top five pick if he, as expected, comes out early. He should develop into a consistent pro passer.

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Several people on this board have mentioned that the skins need to take a qb with the 4th pick and get a tackle in the second round. This is the kind of thinking that has the skins in the state they are now. When you have a top 5 pick you have a chance to pick a player that is a cornerstone of your franchise for ten years. Why would you take a qb that is not even worth a top 10 pick let alone top 5. Bradford and Clausen are not slam dunk "franchise" qbs. Bradford is a product of the spread and is coming off injury. Clausen never lived up to the hype at ND despite having superior talent almost every Saturday. There is a reason why Parcells and the dolphins took a tackle when Matt Ryan was on the board. They would be better off getting o line help with their first two picks and going for someone like Lefevour or Snead who has first round measurables but had a bad season. We seen the blueprint that succesful franchises have followed, hopefully the skins will follow suit.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer

Amen! Picking a QB at #4 would be asinine. Especially with the choices available.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 20, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

This is GREAT NEWS, encouraging at the very least:

"I was very impressed with the work he did with Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson and expect him to have a similar impact with the Redskins." - SHANAHAN

Why? Notice he said: "Redskins" not "Campbell".

Posted by: hock1 | January 20, 2010 4:36 PM
================================
Could Shanny snap up Orton (consensus top RFA QB) for a 2nd Rnd compensation? Would McDaniels let him go to his Denver predecessor?
Would be nice.. but, I doubt it.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Maese,
I believe Mike Shanahan is the playcaller from the sideline.. Or, at least he was in Denver.
==========
"Matt LaFleur, who was an offensive assistant under Kyle Shanahan in Houston and will serve as the Redskins' quarterbacks coach......There was no indication how the Shanahans and LaFleur might split offensive coaching duties and not a mention of who might be calling plays." Rick Maese

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Just what we need!! Another QB that doesn't control the huddle, throw short passes well, or has pocket awareness!! Sign me up tomorrow!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: glawrence007

That's genius and so easy! Teams will be lining up, not only to give away draft picks for aging overpaid primadonnas, but would love to pay AH the $25M and CP the $11M they are due this year!!

Maybe Bruce Allen will hire you!

Posted by: Rypien11

I hear your cynicism, but really, as soon as another team hires Cerrato, POOF, the deal gets done.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 20, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Have to agree. There were plenty of times Clausen led his team back into games when there looked to be no hope. He's used to the pressure and media scrutiny. He even got punched in the eye by an irate fan, lol. If we HAVE to take a QB in the 1st, I'd take Clausen over Bradford.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 20, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

alex35332,
You're crazy.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 20, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Could Shanny snap up Orton (consensus top RFA QB) for a 2nd Rnd compensation? Would McDaniels let him go to his Denver predecessor?
Would be nice.. but, I doubt it.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Wow, you're just a glutton of punishment..

Posted by: ga8085 | January 20, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"Matt spent the last two seasons with Kyle and is well-versed in the system that we are trying to bring here to Washington," Mike Shanahan said.
___
But also on the QB front it means Matt spent two years with Sage Rosenfels, LaFleur also. Sage is a backup on the Vikings but if Favre comes back he might be interested as a short term answer at starting QB. Matt has also coached David Carr for one season.. another guy who will be a FA this year and like another chance to play. And of course Mike himself coached Pat Ramsey. Just throwing out some options to play QB went Campbell is gone to go along with trying out Colt.

Posted by: sovine08 | January 20, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"...JC needs a new publicist..."

So long as that person can block D Ware types, I say, "Sign'em up!"

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Amen! Picking a QB at #4 would be asinine. Especially with the choices available.


Posted by: Lisa_R | January 20, 2010 4:50 PM

Why?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 20, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I for think Rosenfels could be the starter here next year. Played in Houston, knows the offense, is a UFA, and could be the solution on a two or three year deal. The controversy and the fact that JC would have to learn another new system just seems to me that it would be easier to start fresh with a guy who already knows the system and doesn't carry the baggage JC does here.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Rosenfels would be intriguing...but at the end of the day maybe only a 2 year stop gap vs. JC17 as a one year stop gap.....

Shanny only has 5 years, so I would think he would identify his QB of the future THIS offseason and implement a plan to reflect this thinking....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 20, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

4th, if the Skins pick a QB at #4, you'll be able to hear me hitting my head against the table from all the way across the country.

O line... O line... O line... fix the O line...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 20, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

yeah.. I know.. I love pain.. I agree he is not worth a 1st.. 2nd is marginal.. (I did say "doubt it".) And at a 3rd rnd compensation offer (salary Offer) Denver will certainly match.

Still its hard not to look at his stats in an unfamiliar system and not be interested..

Orton,
1st Qtr QB Rating 99.8
4th Qtr QB Rating less 7 minutes 106.8

Campbell
1st Qtr QB Rating 69.8
4th Qtr QB Rating less 7 minutes 61.0

=============================

Could Shanny snap up Orton (consensus top RFA QB) for a 2nd Rnd compensation? Would McDaniels let him go to his Denver predecessor?
Would be nice.. but, I doubt it.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Wow, you're just a glutton of punishment..

Posted by: ga8085 | January 20, 2010 4:59 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Amen! Picking a QB at #4 would be asinine. Especially with the choices available.


Posted by: Lisa_R | January 20, 2010 4:50 PM

Making statements like this is asinine. First lets let Shanny make the decision, his credentials have earned that, and second, IMO and many others think Clausen is going to be an extremely good NFL QB. When the consensus is that our 30% winning percentage QB is just average, and the other consensus is that Clausen is going to be above average, you can make the argument either way for picking him and I will support Shanny with whatever he decides. But saying it would be asinine is the definition of asinine.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Why?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 20, 2010 5:01 PM


Because there are serious concerns about both of the top qb selections. One has injury concerns and hasnt been great in big games. He is supposed to be deadly accurate, but we have a third string qb who is supposed to be deadly accurate. The other has also never won a big game, unless you count the Hawaii bowl. If you are going to take a flyer on a qb you dont take it in the first round.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | January 20, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Not too mention, we can upgrade our oline and find our franchise QB in the same offseason. Cerrato doesn't call the shots here anymore people and Allen/Shanahan aren't stupid. They wouldn't draft a franchise QB and put him behind a line that has the possibility of anyone named D'Anthony seeing the field. IF they decide to draft a QB at #4 you can be sure they will sign, draft, and/or trade for olineman to block for him. We can upgrade the oline this year, and find the QB of the future as well as commit to drafting olineman highly over the next several years to continue to replenish the line. It doesn't have to be either or.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Orton,
1st Qtr QB Rating 99.8
4th Qtr QB Rating less 7 minutes 106.8

Campbell
1st Qtr QB Rating 69.8
4th Qtr QB Rating less 7 minutes 61.0

=============================

LOL at this stat being used again.

Is the 1st qtr and final 7 min of the 4th more valuable than the rest of the game?

2nd quarter doesn't count
3rd quarter doesn't count
top of 4th doesn't count

Get a new stat. This sh*t is pointless.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 20, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Mojo's Pizza House

When you're tired of the J.C. H8er-aid, come on by for a slice and a brew!

Just don't set off the alarm by trying to open the door after closing.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Could Shanny snap up Orton (consensus top RFA QB) for a 2nd Rnd compensation? Would McDaniels let him go to his Denver predecessor?
Would be nice.. but, I doubt it.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 4:51 PM |

Am I reading this correctly... you want Orton to be the Skins' QB and you want to give up a 2nd for him?

Posted by: chris_zz | January 20, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Please lets not have all this talk about taking a QB with that first pick! The Redskins need OFFENSIVE LINEMEN !! When they build that line to be good then talk to me about QB`s ! KingJoffeJoffer hit the nail right on the head!!

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | January 20, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

People if Shanny decides to take a QB with the 4th pick, I will support that because he knows QB's.

They will fix the o-line no matter what they do.

I would take Clausen over Bradford though.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 20, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

QB talk again! Why are we discussing this? I believe there is a guy with an arm like Elway, the scrambling ability of Steve Young and the nerves of Joe Montana: Colt Brennan! And he is on our team.

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 20, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

I H8 Dallas,

I think your argument is ridiculous, but I respect that the fact that you are totally dedicated to supporting Colt Brennan as pointless as it may be.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | January 20, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Just what we need!! Another QB that doesn't control the huddle, throw short passes well, or has pocket awareness!! Sign me up tomorrow!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 20, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

____________________

AT LEAST HE CAN READ DEFENSES!!!!

__________________________________

Amen! Picking a QB at #4 would be asinine. Especially with the choices available.


Posted by: Lisa_R | January 20, 2010 4:50 PM

__________________________________

In my eyes, if Okung is gone & trading back is not an option... Take Jimmy Clausen!

Just weeks ago, I was saying keep Campbell & fix the O-Line, but further I get away from the season & reflect on yester-year... Campbell has had 5 years to produce what Sanchez, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco has produced in 1-2 years... PLAYOFFS!!!

I understand JC hasn't had a good O-line since last year's game #9 starting with Pittsburgh, but what if we miss the opportunity to get a true Top 10 guy... that guy that can read defenses, throw deep accurate passes, & the intangible to get it done when the game is on the line... I just think JC does nothing pre-snap & everything is on the fly with him... that's why he can't immediately look off his first option & go to #2... it's just so foreign to him compared to the Elite's.

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

I believe there is a guy with an arm like Elway, the scrambling ability of Steve Young and the nerves of Joe Montana: Colt Brennan! And he is on our team.

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 20, 2010 5:32 PM

He won't be for long. He's an interception machine.

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I for think Rosenfels could be the starter here next year. Played in Houston, knows the offense, is a UFA, and could be the solution on a two or three year deal. The controversy and the fact that JC would have to learn another new system just seems to me that it would be easier to start fresh with a guy who already knows the system and doesn't carry the baggage JC does here.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

______________________________

Agree.... He might be a better option than JC... just don't lose the game like he did last year against INDY... ugh!

Posted by: tony325 | January 20, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

People keep talking about Mike Shanahan. The biggest addition to this team might just be his son Kyle.

Posted by: redskinssince96 | January 20, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Last March when Snyder tried to get Sanchez, he couldnt get better than a 3rd round pick for JC (according to NFL.Com). And JC's market value has probably diminished since his situational rating stats have dropped as well.
But Orton is rated the best FA QB available (always rated above Jason Campbell) and if he can be had for a mid range pick. How much better is that than to use the 1st pick (#4) on an unknown QB versus very much needed OLine talent?? Amazingly Orton's QB Rating is not that far from Peyton in the 1st Qtr (good measurement without prevent D stat padding). And Orton was in a completely new system this year..

Peyton Manning 1st Qtr = 101.7
4th Qtr last 7 minutes = 132

Orton 1st Qtr 99.8
4th Qtr last 7 min 106.8

(JC, 69 and 61 respectively)

Here is a comment about Orton from an interview last november with who is considered the top GM in the biz..
Bill Polian..

Q: Talk about this week's opponent, the Denver Broncos. Their quarterback, Kyle Orton, is playing very well after being traded in the offseason from Chicago . . .

A: He's playing well. It was a great trade for Denver. Kyle Orton is a winner. He's a really good NFL quarterback. He proved that with the Bears. He's proving that with the Broncos. He's gotten a quarterback-friendly offense, I think, with what [Broncos Head Coach] Josh McDaniel has installed. They spread the field out and the running game to them is sort of a function of the passing game as opposed to a little bit different style than he had in Chicago. He has been great.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Good post.. I think that is what Snyder was thinking, too.. Kyle was a hotter commodity than Mike..

=====================================
People keep talking about Mike Shanahan. The biggest addition to this team might just be his son Kyle.

Posted by: redskinssince96 | January 20, 2010 5:49 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Kyle Orton wouldn't be squat without his beard.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

I'd trade a 2nd for Kyle Orton's beard as long as the beard's owner is not a part of the deal.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

My guess is that Shanahan doesn't want Orton. Why would he? Orton is not top tier talent and any team would have to overpay to get him away from Denver (because they don't have another QB option).

Posted by: chris_zz | January 20, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Re Campbell vacation

doesn't mean a thing,

all the coaches/scouts will be trying to focus on the two all star games, reviewing film of last season Skins games, reviewing films of potential FA's to sit down with JC17 for 3-4 weeks.

So in other words perfect time for a vacation, so does he need a personal assistant and will he pay my way.

That is the more important question.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Not sure whether anyone is checking on the Lisa-O-Meter, but based on internet photos, Jon Embree seems to be a person of color.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

So in other words perfect time for a vacation, so does he need a personal assistant and will he pay my way.

That is the more important question.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:09 PM

No, but he's looking for a masseuse…You still interested?

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see Colt B get a chance. I saw one game he played in college against Nevada. Colt was tenacious!

Posted by: skinfanman | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Re 1st Qtr & end of 4th Qtr stats

They are only important is you consider how many NFL games are won by: teams scoring first, leading after 1 quarter or come from behind in 4th qtr.

Other than that they are meaningless like all other statistics when used out of context.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Lots of RI peeps (esp. chRIs laRrY) have been pro-Rosenfels as the low budget, no name, game manager to fill shoes for while now.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Here is a comment about Orton from an interview last november with who is considered the top GM in the biz..
Bill Polian..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 5:50 PM

Observation: a good short/medium range QB. Not so good over 20yds.

Defenses figured that out and then the Broncos imploded. Will win more games than lose but wont get to the big dance. The AL West is the weakest div, if you cant win there what chance elsewhere.

Polian - the jury is still out. Was it him, BB or the combination that made him get such great accolades. So far the coaches on their own havent panned out very well

So No Thanks - I would rather see QB at 4 and have a good preseason with no one being told that it is their job to lose, just to win.

I think we can get OL this year in 2nd and 4th rounds and maybe pick up some help in free agency. They dont have to be all pro just able to work together as a unit.

Plus i want to keep eye on players who dont get drafted and see which ones that Shanny can convince to come in and try to make the team.

I would trade LL - maybe get a 3rd for him and if that is so then we could maybe get some OL in the 3rd and maybe RB in 4th.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

So in other words perfect time for a vacation, so does he need a personal assistant and will he pay my way.

That is the more important question.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:09 PM

No, but he's looking for a masseuse…You still interested?

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM
=================================
No but now my wife would be though

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

I was on the fence about Campbell but the more I read and here about the Drew Brees and Peyton Manning's is the guys live, breathe, eat, study film they don't just show up for practice and say they are studying they are true students on the game and Campbell isn't. He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room. Orton is a gym rat and that's what you want a whole team full of gym rats.

Posted by: orioledw | January 20, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

From Jacob's wikipedia.org write up...
Strange though, he has been omitted in the latest write ups.. Wonder if Denver made a counter offer?
===========================================

Jacob Burney
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Jacob Burney (born January 24, 1959 in Chattanooga, Tennessee) is the current defensive lines coach for the Washington Redskins. He has been coaching for the Redskins since 2010.

He was a four-year starter at Tennessee-Chattanooga but went undrafted. He had tryouts with the Detroit Lions but was not signed to their roster.

He coached in the college ranks for 11 years for the University of Mexico, University of Tulsa, Mississippi State University, University of Wisconsin, UCLA, and University of Tennessee.

In 1994 he joined the Cleveland Browns to become their defensive line coach; he stayed there until 1998. In 1999 he joined the Carolina Panthers to be their defensive line coach and coached there until 2001. In 2002 he was hired for the same position by the Denver Broncos.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Are they playing american football in Mexico? Maybe we should scout them for more coaches. OL coach maybe?

Posted by: Skins930 | January 20, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

I for think Rosenfels could be the starter here next year. Played in Houston, knows the offense, is a UFA, and could be the solution on a two or three year deal.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 20, 2010 5:04 PM

And along with Rosenfels is another QB who has experience in a Shanahan system, Patrick Ramsey.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 20, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

3rd string former Skins QBs have always been fan faves. I myself did not think Chase Daniel got a fair shake. Btwn Ramsey and Brunell, Rosenfels was only ever an after thought. Might be something good about bringing in an arm named after an herb.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

NO to Patrick Ramsey. Just ... no. He's ruined.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

NO to Patrick Ramsey. Just ... no. He's ruined.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:18 PM |

and we helped!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

No, but he's looking for a masseuse…You still interested?

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM
=================================
No but now my wife would be though

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:16 PM

She would have to take the job from pabrain, dcwun, etc. Those dudes have been showing him the love for years.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know who the Director of player personnel is and Who is the Head Scout. If it has been said I must have missed it if not those are two positions that I think are very very important.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

A man with the same name as me is director of player personnel. Scott Campbell

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Not sure whether anyone is checking on the Lisa-O-Meter, but based on internet photos, Jon Embree seems to be a person of color.

Posted by: dcsween | January 20, 2010 6:11 PM

When, not if, Univ of CO head coach gets fired next year you can expect Embree to be among the top candidates for them. Possible one and done at redskins park

Posted by: skinswest | January 20, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Of course that may change.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

A man with the same name as me is director of player personnel. Scott Campbell

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 6:40 PM

Liar...we discussed this earlier this week. Sergio Campbell

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

no 1st round O line for ten years, let's NOT make it 11

Bradford bad shoulder
Campbell sacked 38 times

Hmmmm, any math majors out there

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 20, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

A man with the same name as me is director of player personnel. Scott Campbell

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 6:40 PM |

Well that settles it. Obviously he is the best in the NFL. How can we go wrong this year.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

hey deez, ho mo thoughts about me again?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 20, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

There have been just as many OT busts as there have been QB busts. QB busts are just higher profile. I like Claussen or Bradford. Either one should be worthy of a look. But the key is a good OVERALL draft. We need 3rd and 5th round picks to do this, and I think Trading Cooley would get us that. I like Cooley, but Fred Davis THRIVED in a poor offense, and he's 4 years younger. Cooley would look good in Denver, K.C. or Baltimore.

Posted by: wewbank1 | January 20, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

There have been just as many OT busts as there have been QB busts. QB busts are just higher profile.

Posted by: wewbank1

Not true. QBs are much more hit and miss than OL up high in the draft.

I do like your moniker, guess you'll be rooting for the Jets.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 20, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see Colt B survive a pre season without hurting a hip, and the other 2 QBs get hurt before he gets a 'chance'

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 20, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

1st QB rating stats are important since it eliminates the misleading prevent D stats when the secondary is 30 yards down the field positioned like MLB outfielders letting the QB complete anything he wants barring a TD. JC was in this situation half the season. And his 4th Qtr with less than 7 minutes qb rating was amazingly still only 61.0.

=================================
Re 1st Qtr & end of 4th Qtr stats

They are only important is you consider how many NFL games are won by: teams scoring first, leading after 1 quarter or come from behind in 4th qtr.

Other than that they are meaningless like all other statistics when used out of context.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

1st QTR QB rating stats are important since it eliminates the misleading prevent D stats when the secondary is 30 yards down the field positioned like MLB outfielders letting the QB complete anything he wants barring a TD. JC was in this situation half the season. And his 4th Qtr with less than 7 minutes qb rating was amazingly still only 61.0.

=================================
Re 1st Qtr & end of 4th Qtr stats

They are only important is you consider how many NFL games are won by: teams scoring first, leading after 1 quarter or come from behind in 4th qtr.

Other than that they are meaningless like all other statistics when used out of context.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 6:13 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"Liar...we discussed this earlier this week. Sergio Campbell..."

According to mrsmoe, he goes by Ron Mexico Campbell when he's out on a Tiger Woods prowl for easy coochie.

So we really don't know who the guy is.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

For the people suggesting OT with the second pick, just which player are you thinking about?

It's a lot easier to take chances in the draft on a rookie left tackle while you still have a solid starter in the role.

The Skins have squandered that luxury.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

hey deez, ho mo thoughts about me again?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 20, 2010 6:58 PM

Nah, I just appreciate your unconditional love for JC. I don't want to draft a QB 4th overall because there are more important needs and outside of Clausen I don't see anyone that’s franchise caliber.

You don't want to draft a QB because of your boy, 17.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs pretty much said the same thing about Collins during an interview. That Collins was a student of the game and was always far more prepared than he had to be. No comment on Campbell.. which could be construed or misconstrued.
I think what has hurt Campbell the most is that he was anointed by his draft position, contract size, and the 3 picks Snyder gave up for him in 2005.. Basically the investment size dictated he would Start. He never really had to compete for his job.
==================================


I was on the fence about Campbell but the more I read and here about the Drew Brees and Peyton Manning's is the guys live, breathe, eat, study film they don't just show up for practice and say they are studying they are true students on the game and Campbell isn't. He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room. Orton is a gym rat and that's what you want a whole team full of gym rats.

Posted by: orioledw | January 20, 2010 6:16 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 20, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

When, not if, Univ of CO head coach gets fired next year you can expect Embree to be among the top candidates for them. Possible one and done at redskins park

Posted by: skinswest | January 20, 2010 6:41 PM

That's why we should have hung on to Zorn. No one will ever try to hire him away from us.

Posted by: League-Source | January 20, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

"Liar...we discussed this earlier this week. Sergio Campbell..."

According to mrsmoe, he goes by Ron Mexico Campbell when he's out on a Tiger Woods prowl for easy coochie.

So we really don't know who the guy is.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:15 PM |

Hey, hey, hey, keep that on the DL. The Mrs. might be reading this.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

So let's say you have to miss one of this weekend's big games:

Saints v. Vikes

Colts v. Jets

Which game is the one you'll regret missing?

Moe goes with Vikes v. Saints.

The real colts will show up Sunday, turn the clock to twelve, and end the j-e-t-s cinderella-like playoff run.

If the Manningang puts up 17 points early on the Sanchez in the dome, we'll get more shots of Archie smiling at his boy than Rex Ryan screaming, "Oy Boy."

But Vikes v. Saints has 'Instant Classic' splayed all over it.

Favre v. Brees, Bush v. Harvin, Hurricane Katrina v. ?, and The Purple People Eaters v. The Aints.

Gitcha earplugs and popcorn ready!!

'Cuz it's gonna be loud.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

She would have to take the job from pabrain, dcwun, etc. Those dudes have been showing him the love for years.

Posted by: Diesel44

You had to throw my name there. Notice I stayed out of this JC stuff for a week because its a pointless conversation.

I will say this though, and you've heard this before. JC is exactly what Drew Brees was his first 3 years as a starter in San Diego. Not saying he will ever be what Brees is today but the same things were said about Brees. Its so funny to hear folks talk about Brees like he just came in the league 3 years ago. I believe he's in his 9th.

I bet the fine people in San Diego wish they had him now.

Posted by: dcwun | January 20, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

"He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room."

You're right.

A guy who's learned a new offensive system every 2.5 years over the last 8 isn't studious enough to be an NFL quarterback.

Glad you're here to clear up that for me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"I don't want to draft a QB 4th overall because there are more important needs and outside of Clausen I don't see anyone that’s franchise caliber."

Remember: drafting Clausen means you get a guy who immediate understands NFL passing concepts and protections.

If you draft him, he must play right away, meaning you might decide to take what you can get for JC, even if it's not something that great (low 3rd-4th rounder).

In any event, it's still a win-win situation for DC.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

"He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room."


You're right.

A guy who's learned a new offensive system every 2.5 years over the last 8 isn't studious enough to be an NFL quarterback.

Glad you're here to clear up that for me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:28 PM |

and I heard that he spent a lot of the offseason working with recievers and such.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcwun | January 20, 2010 7:24 PM

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in" - Michael Corleone

You've been to quiet and I know you have that Iphone app that alerts you when JC is mentioned.

I don't care who the QB is as long as they fix the 9 more important problems on this team before wasting a young QB behind this OL.

They need the next Samuels and Jansen.

Easy...
1st Okung
2nd Bulaga/Capers/Fox/Black

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

I love the Haslett hire.Blache was a pro and I have much love for him,but he was too predictable for this division of all pro QB's.

Posted by: mark65 | January 20, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't care who the QB is as long as they fix the 9 more important problems on this team before wasting a young QB behind this OL.

They need the next Samuels and Jansen.

Easy...
1st Okung
2nd Bulaga/Capers/Fox/Black


Posted by: Diesel44
I agree. I see 4 new starters on the O-line next year. If Okung is gone, get Trent Williams or Anthony Davis.

Posted by: dcwun | January 20, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

"He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room."
You're right.

A guy who's learned a new offensive system every 2.5 years over the last 8 isn't studious enough to be an NFL quarterback.

Glad you're here to clear up that for me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 7:28 PM
------------------------------------------
In all fairness to Campbell, I don't think I have ever seen it in black and white that he doesn't put in the work - in the film room, on the practice field, or in the weight room. I am, however, getting a little weary of the "been in three thousand different systems since he was a four year old QB for the diaper league" defense, though. Campbell himself said he played in the WCO his last year of college. He played in it the last two years under Zorn. He'll be playing under it with Shanahan if he sticks around. That excuse-well has run dry.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins continue to round out their staff, hiring Jacob Burney to be their new defensive line coach, according to league sources.

Anyone have any information on this coach?

Posted by: wattsicon | January 20, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

redskinhead

"I am, however, getting a little weary of the "been in three thousand different systems since he was a four year old QB for the diaper league" defense, though."

I wasn't using it as an excuse, but rather as evidence that no one has complained that Campbell doesn't know what to do while on the field.

It's his execution that folks question.

But think of this: the guy had a decent year behind a poor o-line, developing receivers, wacky play calling, and with no true runnng game.

You have to wonder what he'd look like in Minn, Carolina, or Arizona.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins continue to round out their staff, hiring Jacob Burney to be their new defensive line coach, according to league sources.

Anyone have any information on this coach?

Posted by: wattsicon | January 20, 2010 7:46 PM |

Yeah, he called all the defensive linemen and told them to be ready for hell week or look for another job.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree. I see 4 new starters on the O-line next year. If Okung is gone, get Trent Williams or Anthony Davis.

Posted by: dcwun | January 20, 2010 7:42 PM |
================================

No love for Bruce Campbell?

WalterFootball has him as the next O.T. in the draft after Okung.

And he's a local boy/turtle.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to see Patrick Ramsey back here and doing well. If he was doing well, we'd be winning and I would be too. You see, years ago I took my son who was 4 at the time to training camp and Patrick Ramsey autographed a football for him. Haven't thought much about it since, but now............

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | January 20, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

No love for Bruce Campbell?

WalterFootball has him as the next O.T. in the draft after Okung.

And he's a local boy/turtle.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya

Actually, I was hoping he'd slide to the second round. I'm weary of Terps lineman these days.

Posted by: dcwun | January 20, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/blogs/redskins-confidential/Season-review-Defensive-line-82183087.html

Here is an excerpt:

Where they're headed: For a major change. Carter is expected to move to outside linebacker in a 3-4. He struggled in that role with San Francisco. Before they do anything they must figure out who can play where; can Jarmon be a 3-4 end? Daniels could play that spot, but he's a free agent. His unselfish play is needed in this defense because everything is geared toward the linebackers. To play nose tackle effectively in this defense, you must be willing to be beaten up more than ever; and to let others make plays. How will that sit with Haynesworth, whose desire to freelance does not mesh with this sort of defense. The Redskins need to answer some questions about their personnel before deciding what they must fill in free agency and the draft.

Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"I'd love to see Patrick Ramsey back here and doing well."

Actually, I really miss Shane Matthews.

Now, there was a redskin quarterback who's play was forgettable.

Like Ramsey's was.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

So I check RI to find out what's happened with the Redskins in the last 45 mins and I find out scampbell got promoted.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 20, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

redskinhead

"I am, however, getting a little weary of the "been in three thousand different systems since he was a four year old QB for the diaper league" defense, though."


I wasn't using it as an excuse, but rather as evidence that no one has complained that Campbell doesn't know what to do while on the field.

It's his execution that folks question.

But think of this: the guy had a decent year behind a poor o-line, developing receivers, wacky play calling, and with no true runnng game.

You have to wonder what he'd look like in Minn, Carolina, or Arizona.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 8:00 PM
------------------------------------------
I think the best news for Campbell is that Shanahan acknowledged that he will shape the scheme around the players he has and their abilities. Campbell is a QB that will need a system that adapts to him. I think that means a run first offense, some play action, plenty of shotgun formation, an offensive line that can give him time, and biggish wide receivers that can scrum for the odd errant pass. Shanahan can give him some of this next season, but will Shanahan take the risk of building his team around a QB that may be at the end of the developmental ladder? We'll see.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

redskinhead

"...will Shanahan take the risk of building his team around a QB that may be at the end of the developmental ladder? We'll see."

Good stuff.

So let's look at Campbell's numbers from this year:

compl. 327 att. 507 64.5 yds. 3,618 tds. 20 ints. 15 43 sacks

The question for Shanny is, if you reduce the sacks total, how does it affect the tds./int ratio?

Maybe 20 fewer sacks is 300-400 additional yards.

You'd figure that if Campbell isn't hit so much, he completes more passes, extends drives, and generally, there's more offense.

That's should mean wins, right?

And that final cryptically posed question is the one that might make Shanny decide to go another direction.

Because for all his strengths, Campbell just hasn't shown himself to be an NFL 'winner': or, a guy who can take victory when it shouldn't be there.

And that's as JC reclines in the caribbean, that's a reality that even an earthquake can't shake away.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

I think the best news for Campbell is that Shanahan acknowledged that he will shape the scheme around the players he has and their abilities.
Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 20, 2010 8:57 PM

Dont forget Colt is still on the team and we have the draft/free agency. I read that as whoever is there thru training camp and makes the final roster. So I don't think that is necessarily a good thing for JC.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure Colt's future is one where he is cutting my grass, please see Timmy Chang.

As far as JC: 1 year tender, draft OL and then address the QB position if JC fails again next year.

Offensive freaking Line is the most glaring weakness on this team. QB is in the top 10 positions to upgrade but not in the top 5.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

"Don't forget Colt is still on the team and...so I don't think that is necessarily a good thing for JC."


So Shanny's choices are between a guy whose ability is all rumor and supposition (Colt), and a dude who's thrown this past season for 3,600 yrds behind a porous line (Campbell).

That's an easy choice.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Why try to reprogram JC for the 6th time? There's just too much baggage with JC. Shanny needs to get his guy to run his offense. Sam Bradford is that man. Let JC start the first 8-9 games then turn it over permanently to Bradford. Shanny did that in Denver with Jake Plummer and Jay Cutler.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 20, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

I'm torn: I can't abide another season of slack-jaw, nosebreather JC overshooting wide open receivers-

The only thing worse is seeing him get up after a sack

OL!

Posted by: ElYeah | January 20, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: coparker5 | January 20, 2010 9:54 PM

Sam Bradford is a boy with a noodle arm and is made of tin foil and duct tape that would cost you the 4th pick in the draft.

JC is a man with a big inaccurate arm from 10+ yards made of metal and braun who can't read a D and can't win you a game but is already on the roster.

I’m going with JC. Bradford wouldn’t survive the preseason and if you’re going to make a case for a QB, make it for Clausen who may go #1 overall.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Offensive freaking Line is the most glaring weakness on this team. QB is in the top 10 positions to upgrade but not in the top 5.


Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 9:45 PM |

What do u no? You ain't the HC, you ain't intimately familiar with the O sys he wants to install. The QB is by far the single most important element in most O sys. Camp may be a round peg for a square hole. He could also be a tiny round peg for a huge round hole. Sort of like what happens when u get in on with some babe.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 20, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

So Shanny's choices are between a guy whose ability is all rumor and supposition (Colt), and a dude who's thrown this past season for 3,600 yrds behind a porous line (Campbell).

That's an easy choice.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 9:48 PM |

So if I understand, any time a rookie replaces a vet it is all supposition and rumor against the vet that he just replaced. Using that logic the NFL would be playing with walkers and carrying their oxygen tanks around on poles.

Sorry the vets have to go some time, better a season or 2 sooner than 2 season too late.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

That's an easy choice.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 20, 2010 9:48 PM |

For someone with a double digit IQ.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 20, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Or in the case of QB - someone who asks in every huddle - You ready COOLEY/DAVIS its coming your way.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

looking at 6-7 OTs going in the first round and another 2-3 going in round 2

Posted by: noonefromtampa | January 20, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Sorry the vets have to go some time, better a season or 2 sooner than 2 season too late.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 10:09 PM |
=======================

A shame that SnyderVinnie didn't figure that out with our offensive line two years ago.

I did, but they just wouldn't listen!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 20, 2010 10:07 PM

Let me channel my inner RedDMV...Just ask your mom, sister, girlfriend, or wife (I doubt you have 1 of the latter 2) about how I'm more than adequate.

You don’t have to be FartezDudmore to realize that the OL in not NFL caliber and needs to be upgraded more than any other unit besides yours.

The floor is yours. Please enlighten us, what would FartezDudmore do in the offseason.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

A shame that SnyderVinnie didn't figure that out with our offensive line two years ago.

I did, but they just wouldn't listen!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 10:19 PM

I case no one has heard, there is a new sheriff in town. So I am waiting like i said in my earlier post for the draft/free agency. Everyone acts like its gonna be the same old OL. I just don't believe that and I also don't believe it's just gonna be the same old hold your lane defense. I also hope that there is a complete competition for QB this season and am willing to let a new one have some growing pains (i.e. ints) if there is a modicum of trying to win the game instead of the trying not to lose the game.

I'm outta here got some things to do. Now y'all have a good night.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 20, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Step back and look at this like Shanahan..

What have previous Head Coaches said about JC....?
The last two Head Coaches that tried to develop JC has been pretty much "no comment". The silence is deafening..

Gibbs was extremely complementary about Collins.. (the link is out there). Over the top.. But, nothing on Campbell. I think Gibbs retired for another reason.. He saw, after two years of coaching Campbell, that he would never "get it" or even study the game to try and "get it". Gibbs knew he got lucky when Collins stepped in after JC's injury in 2007 and with the same personnel, went 4-0 to the playoffs. Saving the Gibbs legacy along the way. Prior to that, Campbell (and Gibbs) were in an 0-4 W-L slide.. heading to a 5-11 season.
Gibbs got out abruptly but, still on top and legacy intact.... knowing he talked Dan into handing over almost the complete 2005 draft to get JC.
One year later (with Zorn's endorsement) Dan was peddling JC to any team for a 2nd rounder and couldnt get it.

Now look at Zorn.. He almost slipped up and criticized Campbell as he departed Redskins Park for the last time.. But, he held back. He did stand up and show some back bone when Campbell said the season was "unfair" because of the OLine.
But, overall Zorn has been very quiet about Campbell. No "Gray like" compliments about JC, from Zorn who was considered the best QB Coach in the NFL. And who was specifically charged with turning JC into a top NFL QB.

I am sure Shanahan "hears" this silence from the former Head Coaches.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Closer to being busts than actual players. Each has had 1 good game in 2 seasons and going into their 3rd season and not being drafted by this FO, it's the proverbial make an impact this season or find a new team scenario for DT & MK.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Because waiting in the wings is the best wide-out we have, MARKO MITCHELL, hands down.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 20, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Do we already have a decent RT in Levi Jones?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

I am sure Shanahan "hears" this silence from the former Head Coaches.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 10:30 PM |
=============================

I am sure Shanahan says to himself, LISTEN TO ZORN!

That's how to win in the NFL!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Hey FartezDudmore-

Don't bring that weakass koolaid to a gin party and then throw some even weaker slap and then run away and hide.

I’m waiting for your candyass to explain how any QB could be successful behind a OL that isn’t even SEC caliber.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Do we already have a decent RT in Levi Jones?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:37 PM

We're probably going to find out. I wish we could keep him around for depth instead of being a starter.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Come on Diesel, you're arguing with a guy name FartezDudmore. Need I say more?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

He was serviceable at LT so he might be a pretty good RT. Better than Heyer for sure.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Can Carter adapt to 3-4?
By: JOHN KEIM
Examiner Staff Writer
January 21, 2010

Redskins believe DE can make the switch
The transition taught Andre Carter more about the game; perhaps more than he wanted to learn. It taught him about coverage, how to jam receivers and how to blitz from a standup position.

It also taught him that he preferred end in a 4-3 as opposed to linebacker in a 3-4.

After one year as a linebacker in San Francisco's new front, Carter signed with Washington in 2006 to play end in a 4-3.

"He was like a fish out of water," one NFL evaluator said.

Carter would not disagree.

"It was OK," he said, "but it wasn't the best scheme for me. I got so comfortable putting my hand in the dirt."

With Washington switching to a 3-4, the 253-pound Carter is too small for end, where he's spent eight seasons. But, though he's athletic, he wasn't comfortable at linebacker.

Perhaps his past lessons will help. He learned about coverage, from anticipating the tight end's movement to jamming a receiver.

"If you're positioned the wrong way, you would be embarrassed," he said.

"Will he be better? I don't know," the evaluator said. "They think he can; my impression is that he can't."

As an end in a 4-3, he often was assigned a gap, but his goal was to win. As a linebacker, he has to play off what the end is doing, as well as a corner if they are blitzing.

"It's about getting familiar with the stance and scheme and studying more," he said. "As linemen, we studied so much, but [linebacker] London Fletcher would give the call and you just watch the ball and attack. As a linebacker you key so many things, from the depth of the running back to receiver sets, coordinating your eyes ... It was tough. I was a defensive end by heart."

Ironically, he's coming off his best season with Washington, tying for the team lead in sacks with 11 and continuing improved play vs. the run.

"I have to learn it," he said. "I have a family to feed as well."

Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:46 PM

I'd call it an attempted discussion. Although I'm sure I could back in the archives and find you beating on a retard or 2 in your day.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Do we already have a decent RT in Levi Jones?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:37 PM |
=============================

a) Did you see any Redskins games this season, scampbell1975?

b) No.

c) WTF?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:46 PM

I'd call it an attempted discussion. Although I'm sure I could back in the archives and find you beating on a retard or 2 in your day.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 20, 2010 10:51 PM

True, true.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Do we already have a decent RT in Levi Jones?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:37 PM |
=============================

a) Did you see any Redskins games this season, scampbell1975?

b) No.

c) WTF?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 10:52 PM

Again, I was talking about moving him to the right side. He only had a partial year to get up to speed. It's a question, that's all.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

I see, and I shoulda thought about it some more.

But thinking is getting a bit tough at this part of the evening.

It was far easier to emote to seeing the skins O.L. in action this year (better to say inaction).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 20, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

No prob thunder.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

I enjoy reading these updates and the comments people leave about them. I, too, am a die hard Skin fan like so many of you but I am noticing more and more comments after each article and I am afraid we are drinking the Kool-Aid too soon. At 30 yrs. old I no longer have delusions of grandeur when it comes to the Skin's. While I am happy with Shanahan there are things I am worried about.
1. The last time Shanny had the full reign likes he does now failed. He overpaid for too many players and drafted too many busts.
2. Who is going to call the plays? Mike or Kyle?
3. '08 Bronco's def. ranked 29th. Bob Slowic was the DC. One year after he and Shanahan left that D ranked 7th. That's huge. They brought in M. Nolan and put Dumervil at OL and he blows up with 17 sacks. 12 more than last year. And now Slowic is our Cornerbacks coach. What??? Or better yet, Why??? On top of that, with how bad our FS played last year J. Gray had our Secondary ranked in the top 10 last year.
3. Shanahan wants a QB to groom. Fine, all new coach's want the same. But are biggest concern is the O-Line. Get Okung or trade down and get B. Campbell and sign J.C. to another 2 years. Shanny can grab Snead in the 4th if he wants to mold a QB.

Also, I am not convinced that Campbell can't be the answer. You must look at the whole picture before just blindly blaming the QB. Two years ago Moss and ARE were both in the top 10 for percentage of dropped passes compared to times targeted. Braylon Edwards was 1 but Moss was 2 and ARE was 9. You can't complete passes if your WR's drop everything. This year JC improved his stats with having one of the worst front lines. And now you have D. Thomas and M. Kelly, whom you can not label as busts.
This year, his 2nd year D. Thomas had 25 ctch. 325 yds. and 3 TDs. In V. Jackson's 2nd year he had 27 ctch. 453 yds. and 6 TDs. Very close. His 3rd year was 41-623-3 and finally in his 4th year he exploded with 59-1098-7 and got even better this year. It usually takes WR's at least 3 years to develop. Thomas and Kelly are in their 2nd. The same people claiming they are a bust are the same ones that want Campbell gone.
Fixes don't happen over night. Instant gratification doesn't correspond with the NFL. Campbell needs 2 more years with Shanahan before we know if we are given a way a franchise player to another team. Something DC teams are famous for. And right now Shanahan could bring back the glory years here but we can't just go head over heels here. There still has to be accountability and I am worried about our D.

Posted by: sdavey355 | January 20, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

dilfer is calling for the saints to derail the vikes. vikings win by 24. book it.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4837079

Posted by: BMACattack | January 20, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Sdavey, many of us share your concerns. It is just easier to drink the koolaid. It hurts less until the season starts.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 20, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

agreed..
vikes and colts in the SB..
what a great match up.. Two sure HOF QBs carrying their teams on their backs.
=============================
dilfer is calling for the saints to derail the vikes. vikings win by 24. book it.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4837079

Posted by: BMACattack | January 20, 2010 11:23 PM

Posted by: cliftonbiz | January 20, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

if we go to a 3-4, I think Carter goes on the trading block.

He is coming off a career year, still has several years left in him and close to the end of an inexpensive contract. These are the kind of things that would bring a premium in a trade. Maybe we get a 2nd and 4th pick for him, providing the other party can sign him to a contract.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 21, 2010 12:36 AM | Report abuse

out with the black, in with the white.

Posted by: jsmith33351 | January 21, 2010 1:25 AM | Report abuse

Cliftonbiz wrote:

Step back and look at this like Shanahan..

What have previous Head Coaches said about JC....?
The last two Head Coaches that tried to develop JC has been pretty much "no comment". The silence is deafening..

Gibbs was extremely complementary about Collins.. (the link is out there). Over the top.. But, nothing on Campbell. I think Gibbs retired for another reason.. He saw, after two years of coaching Campbell, that he would never "get it" or even study the game to try and "get it". Gibbs knew he got lucky when Collins stepped in after JC's injury in 2007 and with the same personnel, went 4-0 to the playoffs. Saving the Gibbs legacy along the way. Prior to that, Campbell (and Gibbs) were in an 0-4 W-L slide.. heading to a 5-11 season.
Gibbs got out abruptly but, still on top and legacy intact.... knowing he talked Dan into handing over almost the complete 2005 draft to get JC.
One year later (with Zorn's endorsement) Dan was peddling JC to any team for a 2nd rounder and couldnt get it.

Now look at Zorn.. He almost slipped up and criticized Campbell as he departed Redskins Park for the last time.. But, he held back. He did stand up and show some back bone when Campbell said the season was "unfair" because of the OLine.
But, overall Zorn has been very quiet about Campbell. No "Gray like" compliments about JC, from Zorn who was considered the best QB Coach in the NFL. And who was specifically charged with turning JC into a top NFL QB.

I am sure Shanahan "hears" this silence from the former Head Coaches.

_________________________________________

I agree. Campbell is NOT the answer for the future.

Groom a Sam Bradford and play Todd Collins as starter until he's ready. Oh, and make Colt Brennan the no. 2 guy (and dump clownble).

Posted by: jsmith33351 | January 21, 2010 1:30 AM | Report abuse

out with the black, in with the white.

Posted by: jsmith33351 | January 21, 2010 1:25 AM


You should be shot in the face.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 5:11 AM | Report abuse

out with the black, in with the white.

Posted by: jsmith33351 | January 21, 2010 1:25 AM


You should be shot in the face.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 5:11 AM

...and with that attitude he has a better chance than most.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 7:43 AM | Report abuse

I was on the fence about Campbell but the more I read and here about the Drew Brees and Peyton Manning's is the guys live, breathe, eat, study film they don't just show up for practice and say they are studying they are true students on the game and Campbell isn't. He has the measurables but he doesn't hit the books or learn like those guys and that seems to be the difference between the great ones and average ones. Campbell is not willing or is unable to become a master of the film room. Orton is a gym rat and that's what you want a whole team full of gym rats.

Posted by: orioledw |
---------------------

I don't know where you got this from. Jason Campbell is known to be one of the hardest working members on the team and always ahead of everybody in learning the offensive systems. You may not like Jason, but you cannot say that he doesn't work or study hard. He's already planning his off season routine, which will start after a well deserved vacation--after getting slung around like a rag doll all season.

Posted by: postwell1 | January 21, 2010 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Too true, Scamp. Too true.

And whoever the clown is that called Orton a "gym rat" must be huffing markers or something. The only way that's true is if you omit the word "gym".

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

You should be shot in the face.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 5:11 AM |

Dunno if Cheney is available.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: postwell1 | January 21, 2010 7:50 AM

I agree with you. This is where continuity in an offense pays dividends not only with the QB, but with the WRs , and RBs, and OL. When a team has the ability to review their play year after year, against different blitzes and coverages etc, the players get a better understanding of why a play is run a certain way, how to execute it against a particular scheme or coverage. IMO I hope the foundations so roughly laid by JZ is rooted firmly by Mike Shanahan and successor for years to come.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:08 AM | Report abuse

Let's go get two OT's, a LG, C, RB, sign CAMPBELL for two, a DT, SSLB, CB, and FS. Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Fixes don't happen over night. Instant gratification doesn't correspond with the NFL. Campbell needs 2 more years with Shanahan before we know if we are given a way a franchise player to another team. Something DC teams are famous for.

Posted by: sdavey355 | January 20, 2010 11:21 PM
------------------------------------------
Here we go again. Campbell has had four years in the league and we still don't know if he's a franchise player? You think he needs two more years? Look, the guy is what he is. Campbell has been mediocre, is mediocre and will always be mediocre. Some people expect him to magically pop out of his cocoon and become the second coming of Joe Montana. That ain't going to happen. Still, the team can play to his strengths, mask his weaknesses and win some football games while they look for the quarterback of the future.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

IMO I hope the foundations so roughly laid by JZ is rooted firmly by Mike Shanahan and successor for years to come.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:08 AM |

I doubt if there is anything that Zorn did that will be carried over. At least it was some version of WCO so the system that Shan installs should have some semblance of familiarity to it.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Let's go get two OT's, a LG, C, RB, sign CAMPBELL for two, a DT, SSLB, CB, and FS. Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.


Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:13 AM
-----------------------------------------
Let's all get some of what you are smoking.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Let's go get two OT's, a LG, C, RB, sign CAMPBELL for two, a DT, SSLB, CB, and FS. Trade HAYNESWORTH and PORTIS for as many picks as possible. Take as many decent UFA's or RFA's in the slots above as possible, draft the rest, and roll to the Super Bowl.


Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:13 AM |

Who are you going to trade an oft injured, lazy, over the hill, loud mouthed running back to?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

out with the black, in with the white.

Posted by: jsmith33351 | January 21, 2010 1:25 AM


You should be shot in the face.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 5:11 AM | Report abuse

Hey brownie, gun analogies are not popular in D.C. right now. How about that handle. Is that the ghost of Jerry Smith?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

DENVER of course. Back to the Future. Not smoke, CROWN ROYAL PREMIUN VAT#16 MANHATTEN, the breakfast of champions. Hick.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Who are you going to trade an oft injured, lazy, over the hill, loud mouthed running back to?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:17 AM |

We trade him to the Eegs for Jason Peters. It should be easy to convince Andy Reid to make this trade. It's easy to pull the wool over his eyes.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

if we go to a 3-4, I think Carter goes on the trading block.

He is coming off a career year, still has several years left in him and close to the end of an inexpensive contract. These are the kind of things that would bring a premium in a trade. Maybe we get a 2nd and 4th pick for him, providing the other party can sign him to a contract.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 21, 2010 12:36 AM
-------------------------------------------
Zeke,
I think you might be right. No sense making a square peg fit a round hole. Better to make an amiable trade with a 4-3 team and walk away with a true 3-4 linebacker or a pick to be used on one. I think a good trade would be Carter for Clint Stidham of the Giants and a draft pick. Stidham is built for the 3-4 and I don't think he fits with the Giants. The Giants would like to have Osi at linebacker and having Carter would allow them to move Osi. I hope Bruce Allen is reading this...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Hey brownie, gun analogies are not popular in D.C. right now. How about that handle. Is that the ghost of Jerry Smith?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 21, 2010 8:18 AM


I don't know, but he needs to take that racist sh*t elsewhere.

And why aren't gun analogies popular? Seems like Gilbert Arenas finds them pretty funny. That idiot.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

I doubt if there is anything that Zorn did that will be carried over. At least it was some version of WCO so the system that Shan installs should have some semblance of familiarity to it.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:16 AM

That what I meant about roughly laid. It's football not rocket science. My point was that the WCO concepts will be reinforced for the third year, albeit at a more refined level. The Skins will be better for it. The team will be even better off the following, and the year after that. Again, I'm not only speaking about the QB position, but all the offense's personnel.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Seems like Gilbert Arenas finds them pretty funny. That idiot.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:26 AM |

Dud is a dumdum just like his bullets.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Zeke,
I think you might be right. No sense making a square peg fit a round hole. Better to make an amiable trade with a 4-3 team and walk away with a true 3-4 linebacker or a pick to be used on one. I think a good trade would be Carter for Clint Stidham of the Giants and a draft pick. Stidham is built for the 3-4 and I don't think he fits with the Giants. The Giants would like to have Osi at linebacker and having Carter would allow them to move Osi. I hope Bruce Allen is reading this...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:26 AM

I also Carter will be traded. However, I don't think divisional rivals usually do trades, and I also think it's a bad idea to put another above average pass rusher on a team the Skins face twice a year; particularly given the unsettled state of the Skin's OL. If I'm the Skins, I'm shipping Carter back to the Bay area and get a player off the Raiders or 49'ers club.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, why do some here think making trades is so easy? As productive as Carter was last season, nobody's giving up picks for a guy on the wrong side of 30, especially when they know the Skins have no use for him. And anyone selling a trade for Portis needs some smelling salts to come back to reality because even the Raiders wouldn't do something so inherently stupid.

The only ones on the roster with any substantive trade value (that could realistically be traded) would be Cooley and Haynesworth. That's about it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

If I'm the Skins, I'm shipping Carter back to the Bay area and get a player off the Raiders or 49'ers club.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:36 AM |

As long as the theme is "back to ... " why not trade Carter for Vernon Davis and make it a two-way "back to"? TE is a position of real need and Davis would be coming "back to the DC area". Not only did he play for the Terps but he grew up in the area. Oh wait a minute. I forgot. We already have a Davis TE, Fred verison. Stoopid me!

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Can Carter adapt to 3-4?
By: JOHN KEIM
Examiner Staff Writer
January 21, 2010


Posted by: TWISI | January 20, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse


Not sure if it matters.

If we switch around alingments, we can just send Carter to the sideline in a 3-4 look.

I think a guy to keep an eye on is Curtis Gatewood. He a 6'4'' 240pounds LB; and we signed him from Pittsburgh practice squad in the middle of last year. Obviously he's worked with the Lou Spanos and seems to be ready to get groomed as a 3-4 LB. If he (or maybe Chris Wilson) can go OLB on one side, Orakpo can go OLB on the other side and Carter can get a breather on the sideline.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Zeke,
I think you might be right. No sense making a square peg fit a round hole. Better to make an amiable trade with a 4-3 team and walk away with a true 3-4 linebacker or a pick to be used on one. I think a good trade would be Carter for Clint Stidham of the Giants and a draft pick. Stidham is built for the 3-4 and I don't think he fits with the Giants. The Giants would like to have Osi at linebacker and having Carter would allow them to move Osi. I hope Bruce Allen is reading this...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:26 AM

I also Carter will be traded. However, I don't think divisional rivals usually do trades, and I also think it's a bad idea to put another above average pass rusher on a team the Skins face twice a year; particularly given the unsettled state of the Skin's OL. If I'm the Skins, I'm shipping Carter back to the Bay area and get a player off the Raiders or 49'ers club.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:36 AM
------------------------------------------
TWISI,
I'd like to be able to run at Carter twice a year. Understand your point, but in this day and age of free agency, how important is the fact that you're trading with a division rival? They signed Pierce from us. We signed Griffin from them. We signed Wynn from the Giants, who had played with us previously. I just don't think that makes much of a difference...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

The only ones on the roster with any substantive trade value (that could realistically be traded) would be Cooley and Haynesworth. That's about it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:46 AM |

You forgot about Osackpo.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Who are you going to trade an oft injured, lazy, over the hill, loud mouthed running back to?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:17 AM |

We trade him to the Eegs for Jason Peters. It should be easy to convince Andy Reid to make this trade. It's easy to pull the wool over his eyes.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:23 AM |

Did they hire Vinny?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:49 AM | Report abuse

The only ones on the roster with any substantive trade value (that could realistically be traded) would be Cooley and Haynesworth. That's about it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:46 AM |

You forgot about Osackpo.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:49 AM

I know, let's trade anyone that is any good so we don't have anyne on the team that can play!!! Oh, by the way, Haynesworth's contract makes him untradeable. No one is going to want to pick that up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

You forgot about Osackpo.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:49 AM


He wouldn't be realistically traded. He's the best thing going for the Skins right now, no chance they give him up unless someone offers a Herschel Walker-type deal.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Oh, by the way, Haynesworth's contract makes him untradeable. No one is going to want to pick that up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:52 AM |

Especially with the kind of year he had. Blowing like a Noreaster on the sideline and all.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:47 AM

Yes, he's someone whose development I'd like to see. When Gatewood was with the Skins, he wasn't very good. I'm also interested in seeing how Chris Wilson plays. He has upside in the 3-4 formation.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth's contract makes him untradeable. No one is going to want to pick that up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:52 AM


Not with an uncapped year. ANYONE is tradeable this offseason.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

The only ones on the roster with any substantive trade value (that could realistically be traded) would be Cooley and Haynesworth. That's about it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:46 AM |


I think Laron Landry has more trade value than either of those guys.

He's younger, he's still got upside, he's not injured, and he's still playing on a rookie contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

He's younger, he's still got upside, he's not injured, and he's still playing on a rookie contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM

"Upside" is all he's got, because he hasn't shown anything yet but attitude. He'd be great for a team that wants to increase its "Late Hit Out of Bounds" penalties.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth's contract makes him untradeable. No one is going to want to pick that up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 8:52 AM


Not with an uncapped year. ANYONE is tradeable this offseason.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM

You are assuming that someone wants to spend that much money cap or no. I don't think so. I am always working under the assumption that it will be an uncapped year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

I think Laron Landry has more trade value than either of those guys.

He's younger, he's still got upside, he's not injured, and he's still playing on a rookie contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM


You think you'd get more for a knucklehead safety who hasn't yet fulfilled his potential than you would a pair of Pro-Bowlers? I doubt it.

I see your line of thinking here, but I completely disagree.

Just to clarify: I'm not saying we SHOULD trade those guys, just saying they're the only guys with any real trade value, in my opinion. So that's why it's pointless to sit up here and say "trade Portis" or "trade Carter" when nobody would give up more than a ham sandwich and a stick of Fruit Stripe gum for those two players.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I think Laron Landry has more trade value than either of those guys.

He's younger, he's still got upside, he's not injured, and he's still playing on a rookie contract.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 8:57 AM |

Except for the fact that he's uncoachable and he sucks.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | January 21, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

I've been as critical of LL30 this year as anyone, but the dude still has value.

Last year he was a ProBowl alternate. He had 90 tackles this year and was playing out of position.

He's still young, and I think plenty of teams looking for safety help would say to themselves: "We can coach him up, work on the fundamentals, and get more out of him".

I wouldn't trade LL30 b/c he's a bum; I would trade him b/c I believe that in Chris Horton we already have a guy who can give us what LL30 gives us at the position, and we don't need 2 of them.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Help me out here:

What part of Carter/Haney/VelosOrakpo w/ Jarmon (or visa/versa on the last two) off the bench sounds like a BAD line in a 3-4? Sounds downright scary to me.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 21, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

You think you'd get more for a knucklehead safety who hasn't yet fulfilled his potential than you would a pair of Pro-Bowlers? I doubt it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse


If you are talking straight up about talent and ability, then of course teams would like to have AH.

But in the non-imaginary world of trade scenarios, you have to consider other things. Albert Hayneworth's contract makes him untradeable. Period. Cap implications aside, he's wayyy overpaid. The only other team willing to give him the kind of $$ he fetched from us in free agency was the Bucs.

They're probably going to take McCoy or Suh in the draft, so you can scratch "DT" off of the shopping list of things they need, and I'm sure they'd like to spend $41 million on something other than a highly-talented part-time DT.

Cooley is coming off of a season-ending injury. Again, that is going to impact his value in a trade scenario. It's not like the other team is going to act like that didn't happen.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Not to change the subject but when I read that Tiger Woods was in a sex addiction clinic being reprogrammed I thought to myself WTF. What happened with him sort of comes with when the good Lord gives you the Y chromo. Going to some rehab clinic ain't going to change any of that.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Help me out here:

What part of Carter/Haney/VelosOrakpo w/ Jarmon (or visa/versa on the last two) off the bench sounds like a BAD line in a 3-4? Sounds downright scary to me.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 21, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse


Carter is waaayyy too small to be a 3-4 DE.

On a 3-4 line, the only guys we have right now how could play NT are AH and Monty. At DE, Jarmon might ahve to get a little bigger, but AH could also play 3-4 DE with Daniels, Alexander, maybe Golston.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Can Andre Carter adapt to a 3-4?

the better question is should we really care that much?

I know he just had a Pro Bowl caliber year and all, but he's over 30, had 3 very mediocre seasons prior to this one, will be in his 10th season and likely has maybe 2 years of good football left. Conversely you have a rookie in Orakpo who matched Carter's sack total in his first season has all the upside in the world and by everything I've read would be absolutely perfect for a 3-4. I'd rather adopt the system that fits our best young player who could be a star for a decade than worry about how a old end who is by all accounts still a little small to be an end in our old scheme will transition to the new scheme. If he makes a smooth transition, great, if he doesn't, you cut him a year before you would have anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

How does Dallas play its NT differently from the traditional NT. I mean Ratliff is all of 300 lbs, but he plays the run well in there at the size. I would have to assume that the Cowboys do a lot of creative stuff with their front to help him out.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you want heavy on the 3-4 DE. JayTay was very successful as a light DE. 3-4 emphasizes speed, doesn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 21, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

What happened with him sort of comes with when the good Lord gives you the Y chromo. Going to some rehab clinic ain't going to change any of that.

Posted by: FartezDudmore | January 21, 2010 9:16 AM

So, yeah, cheating on your wife is not your fault. It's the Lord's. Makes perfect sense.

No one is responsible for anything -- the Lord is responsible for everything. Except if your wife cheats on you, since the good Lord didn't give her a Y chromosone. Then she's just a tramp.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Can Andre Carter adapt to a 3-4?

the better question is should we really care that much?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:25 AM |

Yes, we should because we can't replace everyone on the team with someone better in one offseason.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you want heavy on the 3-4 DE. JayTay was very successful as a light DE. 3-4 emphasizes speed, doesn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 21, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse


Taylor played the OLB position in a 3-4 this past season.

He played light DE in a 4-3 with Miami before that.

A 3-4 DE usually goes around 300 pounds.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Can Andre Carter adapt to a 3-4?

the better question is should we really care that much?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:25 AM |

Yes, we should because we can't replace everyone on the team with someone better in one offseason.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

In the 3-4 you have Orackpo, Wilson, possibly Jarmon, Rob Jackson and Carter to be the outside rush LBs plus tweener DE/LBs aren't hard to find as FA and as undrafted FAs to bring to camp. If he makes the transition, great, if he doesn't you have other options. You don't make a scheme decision based on the career year of one player who will be out of football in 3 years anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

How does Dallas play its NT differently from the traditional NT. I mean Ratliff is all of 300 lbs, but he plays the run well in there at the size. I would have to assume that the Cowboys do a lot of creative stuff with their front to help him out.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse


That's an aberration for sure. Ratliff is either really strong or just talented enough to make it happen.

A typical 3-4 NT usually goes around 340-350 pounds.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

If you are talking straight up about talent and ability, then of course teams would like to have AH.

But in the non-imaginary world of trade scenarios, you have to consider other things. Albert Hayneworth's contract makes him untradeable. Period. Cap implications aside, he's wayyy overpaid. The only other team willing to give him the kind of $$ he fetched from us in free agency was the Bucs.

They're probably going to take McCoy or Suh in the draft, so you can scratch "DT" off of the shopping list of things they need, and I'm sure they'd like to spend $41 million on something other than a highly-talented part-time DT.

Cooley is coming off of a season-ending injury. Again, that is going to impact his value in a trade scenario. It's not like the other team is going to act like that didn't happen.


Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:15 AM


Again, I'm talking about guys with trade VALUE, not necessarily who is more likely to be traded. I agree with much of this post, but I just wouldn't go as far as to say that Landry has more trade VALUE than Cooley or AH. Just my opinion.

I say we just operate under the assumption that we're not trading anyone. Cut the dead weight, add picks/players as necessary and truly rebuild. The only thing I car about this offseason is not continuing the trend of "band-aid over gunshot wound" team building we saw under Vinny.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 21, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you want heavy on the 3-4 DE. JayTay was very successful as a light DE. 3-4 emphasizes speed, doesn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 21, 2010 9:28 AM
-----------------------------------------
IMAO, the defensive linemen in a 3-4 are more about strength and becoming rigid columns that the offense is forced to move around instead of through. The linebackers need the speed to flow to the gaps, or drop back in coverage, or blitz the quarterback. So, Carter is not big enough to be one of those rigid columns. He's not good enough in space to become one of those flowing linebackers.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 21, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

You don't make a scheme decision based on the career year of one player who will be out of football in 3 years anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:37 AM

Thanks for explaining this to us. I always thought that you did. Jeez, this is a revelation.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

In the 3-4 you have Orackpo, Wilson, possibly Jarmon, Rob Jackson and Carter to be the outside rush LBs plus tweener DE/LBs aren't hard to find as FA and as undrafted FAs to bring to camp. If he makes the transition, great, if he doesn't you have other options. You don't make a scheme decision based on the career year of one player who will be out of football in 3 years anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse


As I mentioned before, we should keep an eye on Curtis Gatewood.

6'4'' 240 pound LB that we signed off of the Pittsburgh practice squad in the middle of the year.

He's worked with Spanos, and seems to be a guy that could get molded into a 3-4 LB.

Posted by: p1funk | January 21, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Interesting conversation. One name comes to mind. Aaron Kampmen total beast in a 4-3
but odd man out in a 3-4. I believe if carter can make the transition great, more the better. if not then ok. GB was still a top ranked defense without kampman. But I would like to have carter in the mix.

Posted by: sthai75 | January 21, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for explaining this to us. I always thought that you did. Jeez, this is a revelation.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

It seems to be based on your previous post.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

From Mosely on ESPN about CBA issues:
When does the CBA expire should there be no extension to the agreement?

In March of 2011.

Will there be a college draft in 2011?

Yes.

What is the “Final League Year” in the current agreement?

The “Final League Year” is the term used in the CBA to refer to the last year of the agreement. Without a further extension of the CBA, the “Final League Year” would be the 2010 League Year, which begins on March 5.

What are the differences between the “Final League Year” and any other “League Year?”

The principal differences are that in the “Final League Year” there is no salary cap and there are substantial additional restrictions on player free agency and reductions in player benefits.

Are current player benefits affected in the Final League Year?

We expect current player benefits to decline in the Final League Year. The union agreed that in the Final League Year, clubs would be relieved of their obligation to fund numerous benefit programs. Examples include second career savings (401K), player annuity, severance pay and performance-based pay. The total league-wide contributions to such plans in 2009, the last capped year, were in excess of $325 million or more than $10 million per club.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 21, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

More from CBA info:
Are retired player benefits affected in the Final League Year?

Commissioner Goodell has stated in a letter to the NFL Alumni Association Board of Directors that there will be no reduction in pension or disability payments to retired players during the Final League Year (2010). Since at least the fall of 2007, NFL owners have consistently agreed and planned that they will not reduce the funding for pension or disability benefits for retired players. Nor will they reduce funding for the 88 Plan during the Final League Year.

What determines an unrestricted free agent in the Final League Year (2010)?

In capped seasons, a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent if he has four or more accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent only if he has six or more accrued seasons. An unrestricted free agent is free to sign with any club with no compensation owed to his old club.

What determines whether a player is a restricted free agent in the “Final League Year?”

In capped seasons, a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three accrued seasons. In the Final League Year (2010), a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three, four or five accrued seasons. The first refusal/compensation rights of restricted free agents remain unchanged in the Final League Year.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 21, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Interesting conversation. One name comes to mind. Aaron Kampmen total beast in a 4-3
but odd man out in a 3-4. I believe if carter can make the transition great, more the better. if not then ok. GB was still a top ranked defense without kampman. But I would like to have carter in the mix.

Posted by: sthai75 | January 21, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, the 3-4 best suits our best young player, plus it makes Gholston, Daniels, Alexander, even Wynn more than serviceable. They are best as stop the run eat blockers anyway and as ends in the 3-4 that's what they are expected to do. Albert at NT backed up by Monte or maybe you sign a fat boy. The switch basically is good for everyone but Carter, so oh well if he doesn't like it. If he was 25 maybe you think twice but he isn't, IMO as long as Albert is on board with the decision you make the switch and don't look back.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

In the 3-4 you have Orackpo, Wilson, possibly Jarmon, Rob Jackson and Carter to be the outside rush LBs plus tweener DE/LBs aren't hard to find as FA and as undrafted FAs to bring to camp. If he makes the transition, great, if he doesn't you have other options. You don't make a scheme decision based on the career year of one player who will be out of football in 3 years anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:37 AM

The only problem that I have with this scenario is that every single guy you mentioned are natural 4-3 DE's. Not one of them has played a 3-4 LB except Carter, for one year, and he sucked at it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 21, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

It seems to be based on your previous post.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:44 AM

My previous post said "you can't replace everyone on the team with someone better in one offseason."

You probably did not understand that because you responded with your typical non sequitur, "You don't make a scheme decision based on the career year of one player who will be out of football in 3 years anyway." I'm not sure who, up here has ever advocated the opposite, but thanks for setting us straight on that.

Posted by: League-Source | January 21, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I tried to post the rest of it, but it is being held by the owner of the blog

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 21, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Mee Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 21, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

CBA info continued:

In addition to the right to designate a franchise (or transition) player each capped year, can clubs designate additional players in the Final League Year?

Yes, one additional player can be tagged. In capped years, a club may designate a franchise player or a transition player. In the final league year (2010), a club may designate one additional transition player. A transition player must be offered a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of the prior season at the player’s position or 120 percent of the player’s prior year’s salary, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no draft pick compensation from that club.

What is the Final Eight Plan?

During the Final League Year, the eight clubs that make the Divisional Playoffs in the previous season have additional restrictions that limit their ability to sign unrestricted free agents from other clubs. In general, the four clubs participating in the championship games are limited in the number of free agents that they may sign; the limit is determined by the number of their own free agents signing with other clubs. They cannot sign any UFAs unless one of theirs is signed by another team.

For the four clubs that lost in the Divisional Playoffs, in addition to having the ability to sign free agents based on the number of their own free agents signing with other clubs, they may also sign players based on specific financial parameters. Those four only will be permitted to sign one unrestricted free agent for $5.5 million (estimated) or more in year one of the contract, plus the number of their UFAs who sign with another team. They also can sign any unrestricted free agents for less than $3.7 (estimated) million in year one of the contract with limitations on the per year increases.

In the case of all final eight teams, the first year salary of UFAs they sign to replace those lost cannot exceed the first year salary of the player lost with limitations on the per year increases.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 21, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

last CBA info to post, just thought people would like to know the facts:

Is there an Entering Player Pool in the Final League Year?

There may be. The CBA provides that the league has the unilateral right to keep or eliminate the rookie pool in the Final League Year.

Is there a Minimum Team Salary in the Final League Year?

There is no Minimum Team Salary in the Final League Year. The Minimum Team Salary in 2009 is $107,748,000, meaning each team is required to allocate more than $107 million to player costs (not including benefits). The team salary cap in 2009 was $123 million.

Are there individual player minimum salaries in the Final League Year?

Yes, but they rise at a rate somewhat slower than player minimum salaries rise in capped years.

Do any player contract rules from capped years remain in place for the Final League Year?

Yes, some rules like the “30% increase rule” are still in effect in the Final League Year for player contracts signed in capped years. That rule restricts salary increases from 2009 to 2010. For example: a player with a $500,000 salary in 2009 would be limited to annual salary increases of $150,000 ($500,000 x 30%) beginning in 2010.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 21, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 21, 2010 9:48 AM

I agree with on some points, then on others I can't agree. How many teams let a double digit sack pass rusher go just because he doesn't fit a particular scheme? Isn't it in the teams best interest to find situations to get a player like that onto the field, or acquire something in return? Carter's salary isn't that high that other teams will not able to sign him and clearly he has value off at least bottom portion of the draft since most of those players drafted in those rounds are long shots anyways. My guess is that if a place for Carter on this team, the Skins would trade him for a conditional draft choice in 2011 based on his playing time.

Posted by: TWISI | January 21, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I'm all in w/ mixing in 3-4. Carter was great for us this year merely because of the addition of AH. A 3-4 is what we need now more than ever. Stud tweener in Sakpo. And what really is intrigueing is AH's versatility, put him at either end in a 3-4. NOW THAT WOULD CONFUSE THE HEK OUT OF THOSE OPPOSING OFFENSIVE LINEMAN. SHANNY'S "MASTERMIND" REPUTATION IS OBVIOUS AND ALREADY EVIDENT! Now who has experience in both 4-3 and 3-4 to make this work???? HASLETT baby!!!!!!BRILLIANT!!

Posted by: sthai75 | January 21, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I never thought the day we would come that we have a legit modern day NFL coach. We don't just have a coach we got rid of Cerrato and got a GM. No more bush league boys we're in the "BIGS" BABY!!! for all you 4-3 haters just have faith. Let innovation and evolution happen. CHANGE IS WANT WE WANTED CHANGE IS WHAT WE'RE GETTING!!!

Posted by: sthai75 | January 21, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

SORRY GOT A LITTLE XXCITED, MEANT TO SAY 3-4 HATERS.

Posted by: sthai75 | January 21, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

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