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Lloyd Cut

As expected. The final stats: 25 receptions, zero touchdowns. For $10 million in guaranteed money. Jason has written that he was due a roster bonus that the team was never going to give him.

By Emilio Garcia-Ruiz  |  February 26, 2008; 5:30 PM ET
 
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Comments

SHABINGUS

Posted by: Dorf | February 26, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Watch. He'll be amazing somewhere else. I wonder if the Eagles are licking their chops?

Posted by: Dorf | February 26, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

It had to be done. There is to much talent at the WR position this year they could get via FA or draft.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Quarter-mil a catch.

Nice work if you can get it.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 26, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

What great news, I think I'm going to have a beer tonight to celebrate!

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

kost, you were going to have a beer anyway you drunk aussie

Posted by: Dorf | February 26, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss his rapping the most.

Posted by: Dorf | February 26, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I say he goes to the Raiders. The team of cast-offs.

Posted by: dah19972003 | February 26, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

My guess is he goes somewhere else and at least has a pro-bowl caliber season...

Posted by: Daspig | February 26, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

What rhymes with 400k per catch?

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know what this does to the cap?

Posted by: greg_hughes90 | February 26, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

anyone knows how much cap we save ?

Posted by: eauzmendi | February 26, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato the "World Class Talent evaluator" strikes again.

"Where you at... Where you at eighty five. Ocho Cinco."

Posted by: js4rester | February 26, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

For all that money, you would think the least he could do is illegally cut down trees at Danny Boys house overlooking the Potomac.

Posted by: js4rester | February 26, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Awesome!

Zorn went back on his word! Zorn has no honor! He said he would give Lloyd a shot, and then he got cut!

The reason this excites me is that it means his reassurance to Jason Campbell doesn't mean a freaking thing!

Woot! Trade Jason Campbell next! Bye Bye Cry Baby!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, yeah, but it's good to have an excuse!

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss his presence in the locker room.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 26, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

I doubt it was Zorn who threw Receiver, The under the bus.

It was the Turcolossus.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd was reported as saying:
"Don't tase me bro."

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss his reserved demeanor.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 26, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss his on-field production.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 26, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss his TD celebration dance.

Posted by: 4-12 | February 26, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I reckon he'll be going to the Rams, after all Weird Al think's he's the greatest receiver he's ever seen!

.....wrist to fingertip!

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Brandon Lloyd may do fine elsewhere. Remember, he had the crappiest QB in the league throwing to him...Jason Campbell, and before that he had the aged Mark Brunell.

Our QBs remind me of Dumb and Dumber, except its more like Crap and Crappier.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Great. Now who's going to represent the skins in the Halo 3 tournament?

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I'll miss seeing ol number...(?)

(Should we retire it out of respect for future players, what was it?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Our QBs remind me of Dumb and Dumber, except its more like Crap and Crappier.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 06:05 PM

Hilarious! But do site your source guru, there's no way you made up that little gem on your own!

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Maybe he'll write a song about his time with the Skins and rap about Napoleon his old boss

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 26, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

No questions ... sniff ... please ... sniff ... just talk to my public relations staff ... sniff ... http://www.blloyd.com/

Posted by: dcsween | February 26, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

That jerk is sitting on the hood of my new car!

Posted by: PDiddy | February 26, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Awesome!

Zorn went back on his word! Zorn has no honor! He said he would give Lloyd a shot, and then he got cut!

The reason this excites me is that it means his reassurance to Jason Campbell doesn't mean a freaking thing!

Woot! Trade Jason Campbell next! Bye Bye Cry Baby!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 05:57 PM

I don't believe he said any such thing. I believe he indicated he wanted to speak w/ Receiver, The before making a decision about him. Zorn gave no indication that he would be retaining Rec, T. So, I'd guess that the conversation took place and Rec, T failed to convince Zorn that he could drop the per catch cost from $400K per down to something like $100K per.

Posted by: brian.oconnell | February 26, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Which draft picks were better spent? The two we gave up to get B. lloyd or the 4th round pick we gave up for Trung Canidate when the Ol' ball coach decided he couldn't work with Stephen Davis. The machine keeps churning.

In related news, Michael Westbrook is officially not the biggest WR bust in Redskins history.

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 26, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

why cut ocho stinko now? it costs at least 4 mill against the cap. why not wait till june. isnt that when the roster bonus was due? does this seem odd to anyone else?

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 26, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

WOW step away from the computer and behind by 150 posts.

Although CP worked out for us, we were fleeced by Denver on this trade and the Duckett trade. CB for CP should have been straight up, but we also gave up a draft choice. This is the other reason I hate to see the FO make trades. Even when we get a good player, we give up too much.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 26, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Which draft picks were better spent? The two we gave up to get B. lloyd or the 4th round pick we gave up for Trung Canidate when the Ol' ball coach decided he couldn't work with Stephen Davis. The machine keeps churning


i still think the "best" trade was a 3rd rounder for duckett and his 10 carries. genius, genius, genius!

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 26, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

why cut ocho stinko now? it costs at least 4 mill against the cap. why not wait till june. isnt that when the roster bonus was due? does this seem odd to anyone else?

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 26, 2008 06:18 PM

I think the bonus was due earlier than June. It could have been that he and Zorn did have the chat and Lloyd requested a "mercy cut" now b/c he knew the axe was coming down and wanted to get back into the the UFA pool as soon as possible. Without a personal vendetta, Zorn wouldn't have a basis to string him out and keep him off the market.

Posted by: dcsween | February 26, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Yes. It seems a little odd, except the FO must think they can afford to take the hit now and avoid the hit in 2009.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Geez, just when he was starting to get the system down pat, they cut him.

Life ain't fair.

Ten million will be a good substitute for fairness however.

What a terrible decision (signing him).

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

They can cut him now but use him as a post June 1 cut.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 26, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah I forgot Duckett...That would be the worst, but I like to throw in a Trung canidate reference whenever possible

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 26, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

lloyd deserves no mercy. he didnt earn it by losing the falcons game for us or by dropping jc's first ever pass which would have been an effing td. imagine if jc had of gotten that completion, what it would have done for his confidence. it would have been better than cp toting a 65 yarder to the crib the first time he touched it as a skin. f lloyd and f giving him any mercy. im a little bitter as you can tell being as i not only predicted lloyd would be a star player but also that he would win multiple grammys. f lloyd!!!

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 26, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Finallt they cut that bum! Kost is a drunk aussie.

Posted by: tasoscilaris | February 26, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Well now we have a free spot for another player. If there was ever an argument to only allow players contracts to be performance based Lloyd is it.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Aaah Lloyd....what a disappointment...

Who on this board can tell me they were not excited upon hearing that he was coming???

He was THE lone brightspot on crappy 49ers teams with no QB.....WTF happened to him??

Was he playing too much HALO????

Posted by: goosedude | February 26, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

"Watch. He'll be amazing somewhere else."

Not likely, or he'd stil be with the 49ers.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 26, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

What a waste! 3rd & 4th round picks, $10M guaranteed signing bonus, and his signing bonus will still affect our salary cap over the next few years since all signing bonuses are spread over the life of the contract (originally $30M over 6 years).

Once again, our front office has no clue how to draft personnel half the time, and they always trade away good picks for "over-priced" free agents that don't work out half the time (see Archuleta as well), etc.

Posted by: RFKROX | February 26, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

What a waste! 3rd & 4th round picks, $10M guaranteed signing bonus, and his signing bonus will still affect our salary cap over the next few years since all signing bonuses are spread over the life of the contract (originally $30M over 6 years).

Should only count this year and next. Regardless, still dumb FO evaluation of talent.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 26, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Kost is a drunk aussie.

Posted by: tasoscilaris | February 26, 2008 06:31 PM


Well, not at the moment, I'm at work!

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm finally something worth emerging from my leetle cave for.

Buh bye "Almost Invisible" - won't be missed because you didn't do anything and you took up money, time, practice, roster spot and oxygen that could have been spent on someone else.

After the coaching clusterfcuk I've been happy with the dull as nails off season so far.

Posted by: sfskin | February 26, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

All i can say is FREE OJ.... Loyd's play on the field was just as funny as the senator in min. twiddling his fingers under the mens bathroom stall.....

Posted by: yallunchin | February 26, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

All i can say is FREE OJ.... Loyd's play on the field was just as funny as the senator in min. twiddling his fingers under the mens bathroom stall.....

Posted by: yallunchin | February 26, 2008 06:50 PM


I always found poor field play to be depressing not funny.

Okay so he will snap the ball and I will run up the side line real fast. Oh crap he already snaped it.
Run
Run
Run
Run
hey look there is the ball, eh its a little high I don't think I want to jump and get it.
Well golly Mr Dolphins Safety, how are you why you jumping up in the air like that?
Oh he has the ball now, I am sure he will just run out of bounds on his own right?
No?
Oh I don't want to tackle him though I could hurt my self.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

mdv..."too much talent at wide-receiver"..? you kidding, right? You sharing what you smokin'?
Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

It had to be done. There is to much talent at the WR position this year they could get via FA or draft.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 05:41 PM

mdv..."too much talent at wide-receiver"..? you kidding, right? You sharing what you smokin'?
Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 07:04 PM

I think he said in FA and the draft.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 26, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 07:04 PM


Uh their stats from last season are very close to one another? Even closer if you want to add El's return numbers and go all purpose yards.

Antwaan Randle El Cth 51 Yds 728 YPC 14.3 YPG 48.5 TD 1
Santana Moss Cth 61 Yds 808 YPC 13.2 Ypg 57.7 TD 3

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Peace the fcuk out B-Lloyd - you are a flamming homos3xual.....you'll not be missed.

Don't let the door hit ya where your boyfriend split ya.

BONG!

(I'm not bashing g*y people, sorry if this offended any of you - its just B-Lloyd was a flamer and had no business running his 'mouf' at the end of the '06 season)

BONGITY BONG BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 26, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

It's very deceptive, but if you look closely, you can see that Antwaan hasn't lost a step or two, he's actually taking two to the left, then three to the right, THEN one forward.

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd cut, but what was the hit to the cap?!

Posted by: gdennie | February 26, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Brandon Lloyd - Waived Prior to June 1: ($2.9)

That's the hit people.

We'd save 2.4 if he's designated after June 1 cut.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

So if someone posts something and every other word makes reference to fly fishing, or uses fly fishing slang or metaphors for fly fishing, wouldn't you think: "Wow. That guy must really be into fly fishing."

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

kerzon..thnx. you're right.
mdv...oops, my bad. Thought you were talking about our Skins.
kost...funnnyy. You got that right.

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

lloyd out LIMAS SWEED IN!!!!!!

Posted by: mdipierro44 | February 26, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Assuming he is not designated a post-June 1st cut, they are taking the dead money this year. Already looking ahead to 2009?

Posted by: skinfanman | February 26, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year. They have no 1st round draft picks, should NOT add free agents, and should just bite the bullet this year and next. Get the cap numbers down, get back in the draft game, and then trade down to get more good players instead of trying to get great players early in the draft. This assumes they know what they're doing. I don't, but I'm not a GM.

Posted by: bfjam | February 26, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Snyder makes a habit every year of re-working contracts to lower the cap number. Skins have the #21 pick this year

Posted by: mdipierro44 | February 26, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Okay, 7:18 pm clarified it. The penny drops.

I don't much like that silly "BONG" and I sure don't like bigmurf08. Yuck.

And, sfskin, nice to see you on the blog. My sentiments exactly.

Okay, back to the cavern of anticlimactic gloom that is my Redskins off-season.

Posted by: farstriker | February 26, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd was a bust pure and simple, and a big personnel mistake by Gibbs and Snyder. Hopefully, this is the last of the big time free agent busts from the Gibbs era. Last year's free agents (Fletcher, Kendall, Godfrey) panned out well.

Posted by: rickyroge | February 26, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

I'm so excited for tonight's Democratic debate. I'm sad that Receiver, The was cut. Two sentences in this post are lies.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 26, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Good riddance POS. He'll be out of the league soon.

Posted by: cdubb | February 26, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Any word on whether he'll be designated a June 1 exemption? My expectation was that he and Wade would be the two...

Posted by: csh2000 | February 26, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd was a bust pure and simple, and a big personnel mistake by Gibbs and Snyder.

Posted by: rickyroge | February 26, 2008 07:54 PM

I believe he was an Al Saunders mistake. This is just rumor.

"The rumored force behind this deal, as reported in 2007 by the
Washington Post, was Al Saunders. Saunders thought that Lloyd had
physical abilities that 99% of NFL receivers could only dream of. He
thought he could get his offense to the next level, beyond where it
was in Kansas City, if the Redskins could get their hands on Lloyd.


In doing so, Saunders may have sealed his fate with the Redskins.
Let's be clear: the notion that Saunders strongly recommended bringing
Lloyd in is a small tidbit tucked into a news story that, in a
calendar year, has not been backed up by any other source. It's not
all that relevant. Lloyd has been leaching a roster spot and a
significant portion of the Redskins present and future cap since he's
been brought here, and he's been avoiding any course of action that
might help the justification of an awful deal. Saunders' fate was
sealed by the inability of the Redskins to improve their offense since
2005, and Lloyd is public enemy number one."

Mike Wise was just on Comcast SportsNet talking about the Redskins release of Brandon Lloyd.

He joked about how one day last Summer, Lloyd walked up to Clinton Portis in the locker room and said "I went fishing the other day and caught a fish that looked just like you" Clinton just shook his head, and walked away. Any wonder why this guy is no longer a Redskin?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Ashame Clinton didn't just kick his ass.

Posted by: cdubb | February 26, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

So if someone posts something and every other word makes reference to fly fishing, or uses fly fishing slang or metaphors for fly fishing, wouldn't you think: "Wow. That guy must really be into fly fishing."

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 07:34 PM

It's all in the wrist, that fly fishing.

kost, I've heard of sushi off strippers, and maybe selected dessert items. But hamburgers, no. I've never been, but I hope that's not why everybody here likes Five Guys so much.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 26, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Redskins cut WR Brandon Lloyd.

A year late. Lloyd symbolizes Washington's problems the last few years. They gave up two-mid round picks to pay him over $12 million in two years, and now take a cap hit to cut him. Lloyd could end up in Chicago where Ron Turner, his college coach, is the Bears' offensive coordinator. Feb. 26 - 5:49 pm et
Source: Washington Post

So apparently, if this story is correct, he was not designated a post June 1 cut. Maybe trying to free up some of next years dead cap space.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

There's actually 2 people on the Raiders blog calling to sign Bloyd. Of course the rest of the blog is berating them.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

This FO gives ineptness a Bad Name.

Archuleta, BLloyd, Bruce Smith, Deion, firing Marty, Hiring Ball Coach, it's JIM FASSELL!, Rocky McHurtIntosh, LaVar, Buh-Bye Pierce....Bringing back Cerratto, yuck.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Well the Bears have just re-upped both Grossman and Orton. So sure, I'd believe they'd be stupid enough to sign Lloyd.

Wow...Just Wow! (We haven't heard that in a while so I couldn't resist). Lloyd has ridden 3 or 4 miraculous catches to $12 mil. And really, when he caught them, he looked as surprised as anyone.

Lloyd's continued presence in the league would mean that the NFL should protract to the original 10 or 12 teams. The talent can't be that diluted.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 26, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd was a super-talented guy coming from San Fran. He made one of the best catches in NFL history there. Just a sad case of a guy who got his money and didnt give a crap about anything else. With Springs, Randel El, Andre Carter, Marcus Washington, Fletcher, tec. the Skins havent been terrible LATELY with FA signings, just missed this one big time

Posted by: mdipierro44 | February 26, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I sense some animosity corky. Not happy with the turcolossus?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Well the Bears have just re-upped both Grossman and Orton. So sure, I'd believe they'd be stupid enough to sign Lloyd.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 26, 2008 08:23 PM

Don't forget they're keeping Archuleta too!

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Okay, 7:18 pm clarified it. The penny drops.

I don't much like that silly "BONG" and I sure don't like bigmurf08. Yuck.


And, sfskin, nice to see you on the blog. My sentiments exactly.

Okay, back to the cavern of anticlimactic gloom that is my Redskins off-season.

Posted by: farstriker | February 26, 2008 07:47 PM

LOL, Fartstriker, nice name!

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 26, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Lloyd was a super-talented guy coming from San Fran. He made one of the best catches in NFL history there. Just a sad case of a guy who got his money and didnt give a crap about anything else. With Springs, Randel El, Andre Carter, Marcus Washington, Fletcher, tec. the Skins havent been terrible LATELY with FA signings, just missed this one big time

Posted by: mdipierro44 | February 26, 2008 08:24 PM

Lloyd wasn't a free agent, we traded to get him. Just like T.J. Buckett.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM


Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Well that experiment went well, nothing like throwing away picks and money on a guy , who we obviously thought we were smarter than the rest of league who new he was a head case....move on, like i keep saying find a franchise QB and when a TO blows up or Javon Kerse is hurt all the time you are a smart well run organization, that in its simplest form is the game today...I'll just keep repeating myself until you all become believers....or treat me like barno....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 26, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

So who are the Redskins going to trade for? One team the Skins have traded with is the Jets who are putting up Vilma and Robertson. It's said neither fits well in the Jets 3-4 scheme. But who would we trade them? Kendall and Fabini?

Posted by: skinfanman | February 26, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Andre Dyson may be a viable, relatively cheap corner to add depth. Injured last year with a sprained medial collateral ligament. Opinions? I don't know much about this guy.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2001 Tennessee Titans 14 58 54.0 4 0 3 36 12.0 36 0 14
2002 Tennessee Titans 16 59 54.0 5 1 3 27 9.0 16 1 11
2003 Tennessee Titans 16 65 54.0 11 0 4 62 15.5 51 2 10
2004 Tennessee Titans 16 41 35.0 6 0 6 135 22.5 44 0 9
2005 Seattle Seahawks 10 20 19.0 1 0 1 72 72.0 72 1 9
2006 New York Jets 15 62 51.0 11 0 4 -3 -0.8 0 0 8
2007 New York Jets 9 12 12.0 0 0 1 0 0.0 0 0 4
TOTAL 96 317 279.0 38 1 22 329 15.0 72 4 65

Fumbles

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

skinfanman

I know Greg and Scamp don't agree but the Jets need a RB. Betts is the most likely person to go.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

You're right, I don't agree, we don't have a viable back up and even Zorn has said that he could use both Betts and Portis on the field at the same time.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Bloyd not only sucks balls but he's one ugly SOB.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

PFT says Vilma is most likely a Lion. I think the Skins could get Robertson for a 3rd this yeaar. I like Dyson as a vet backup.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

"Dewayne Robertson has been nothing short of a bust since he's been drafted. I remember to the day, when they took him, Herm came out and said he was like Warren Sapp with speed. Clearly, he's nothing close to it. The popular move among Gang Green fans is to get him out of there and bring in a guy who can contain the gaps and stop the run."

This is from the Jets website. Yea, let's give up a third for him, and a fourth next year + $10 million garaunteed and $30 over 6 years and we can have another Bloyd, this time on the D-line.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

*guaranteed

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 08:52 PM

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

So do the Skins play a two gap or one gap D? Just because he doesn't fit a particluar style of D doesn't mean he can't play. He might be a bust. I'm not saying they should trade for him, but from what I've read, he is a better player as a one gap (3 technique) player. Check the ESPN and Sportingnews player bio.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Salisbury Done at ESPN

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

"It's very deceptive, but if you look closely, you can see that Antwaan hasn't lost a step or two, he's actually taking two to the left, then three to the right, THEN one forward."

Kost, I was about to say something along those lines. Way to beat me to it.

Skins need to get a PR with their #21 pick. I mean look at the Bears...

Posted by: Dorf | February 26, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

NFL years
Robertson started all 16 games during his rookie season (2003), recording 43 tackles and 1.5 sacks. He was the first Jets defensive player to start every game in his rookie season since Mo Lewis in 1991.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2003 New York Jets 16 43 34.0 9 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2004 New York Jets 16 52 36.0 16 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2005 New York Jets 13 43 27.0 16 3.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1
2006 New York Jets 16 62 36.0 26 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2007 New York Jets 16 57 36.0 21 4 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 77 257 169.0 88 14.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1


In 2004 he played in all 16 games, totaling 52 tackles and 3 sacks. He had 7 tackles in the Jets' 20-17 overtime Wild Card playoff victory on the road against the San Diego Chargers.

In 2005 he played in 13 games, tallying 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 1 pass breakup. He missed the first game of his career in Week 15, due to an injured thigh.

On November 14, 2006 Robertson was named the AFC Defensive Player of the Week for Week 10. He had six tackles and a sack in the Jets' Week 10 win over the New England Patriots.


[edit] Measurables
6'1
317 pounds
4.85 40 yard dash [1]
20 Wonderlic score

Doesn't seem too bad. Again don't know much about him. I'm always wary when his teams site says he's a bust but that could be to smooth over the release.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:36 PM | Report abuse

er uh, trade talks

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Wow. I'm not sure, but I think somebody has been hit with the stupid stick.

Posted by: twhite | February 26, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

I would like to know what the Redskins front office learned from this free agency hire. Reports were consistent that this player had club house and on-field problems, as well as potential.

I wish I could find a job with that kind of resume and get that kind of contract.

Posted by: saratogan | February 26, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

So do the Skins play a two gap or one gap D? Just because he doesn't fit a particluar style of D doesn't mean he can't play. He might be a bust. I'm not saying they should trade for him, but from what I've read, he is a better player as a one gap (3 technique) player. Check the ESPN and Sportingnews player bio.


Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/02/26/2008-02-26_jets_dewayne_robertson_on_block.html

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Where are all the regulars? Bunch of hacks adding their 1.5 cents.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

ESPN Scouts Inc. Report on Dewayne Robertson


Grade: 68 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Robertson is a short, low, center of gravity type player with good athleticism and instincts. He plays the nose tackle position in the newly installed Eric Mangini defense and does not have the ideal size to hold the point. He is tough and competitive but is not the space eater that normally plays this position in the 3-4 defensive scheme. He feels pad pressure well and can find the level of the ball effectively. Robertson can hold the point versus single blocks but is not great to anchor versus the double team. Robertson is best when on the move using his quickness and agility. He is most effective to stunt and penetrate gaps as he does not play stout and can get driven out of lanes. He has decent hand use to leverage blockers but is inconsistent to disengage effectively. Robertson does not get much push as an interior bull rusher and needs to pressure the quarterback with quickness and effort. Robertson marks up solid numbers every season and has been a durable player with 61 starts in four seasons. He plays with a great motor and has some tools as a defensive lineman but may not fit the pure nose tackle stature in the 3-4 defensive scheme.

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

$0.0125

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 26, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 08:52 PM

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

Taylor Jacobs was a Vinny pick. Spurrier argued against him. wanted defense.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 26, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Loved JG; but let's face it, he pulled some knucklehead moves. They all do; but his were super-sized.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Scamp

How does Robertson compare to Griff? The next DT will be taking his place soon so he needs to have at least the same production.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Taylor Jacobs was a Vinny pick. Spurrier argued against him. wanted defense.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 26, 2008 09:51 PM

Wrong. Spurrier argued in favor of him. They passed on him in the first round.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Loved JG; but let's face it, he pulled some knucklehead moves. They all do; but his were super-sized.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 09:53 PM

Nope, Al Saunders, see previous post.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 09:53 PM

He was Al Saunders boy. See scamp's 8:03 post above.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Griffs recent stats and totals:

Recent Career Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD DefTD FFum PD Sfty
2005 Washington 13 34 1 35 4.0 15 1 0 0 0 1 2 0
2006 Washington 14 39 11 50 1.0 9 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
2007 Washington 16 28 14 42 2.5 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career Totals (Full) 118 294 94 388 26.0 161 1 0 0 0 3 22 0

Robertsons are posted earlier. Remember, they play in different systems (4-3 to 3-4 so...)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I was looking for a bit at the USA today salary database. Raised a question for me: are we being just as fooled by the bling as the FA are...giving DV credit for opening the wallet, etc when perhaps that isn't even true.

Specifically, the USA today table lists $ out the door in real payroll - what the clubs actually spent on players payroll each year, without all the weird salary cap stuff and amortizations and all of that.

I had assumed that the Redskins would be spending on payroll far and away the most. But here is what I think I found just looking at the Jints and the Iggles and Cows:

1) Eagles spent exactly the same amount as us ($670 MM over 7 yrs that the database has)
2) Giants were slightly lower- about 5% ($633 MM)
3) Cows were slightly lower too - about 4% ($644 MM)
4) Just for Redcoat checked the Fins- same number of Lombardis but at least they spent 10% less ($600 MM)

The problem here is that we routinely leave $13 MM 'off the field' for dead cap based on 5 yr avg - have led the league there. Given that this is a rough approximation of salary overage in-year, we actually spend about 10-15% less than most teams on actual talent on the team.

As a Bengals follower I was actually surprised - even netting out the Bengals $2-4 MM dead cap the Redskins spend less than the Bengals on actual working players by about $3 MM per year. Same with the Cardinals. And the Browns and the Raiders....as a Bengals fan I will tell you that this is not good company.

More to follow but thanks for the link on this...

Posted by: clearycommerce | February 26, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Scamp. I think this might be someone they are looking at.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Well said clearycommerce, bad picks/ trades, and then cuts kills our deadcap space. It's gotta change.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Well said clearycommerce, bad picks/ trades, and then cuts kills our deadcap space. It's gotta change.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 10:03 PM

One very good reason to use our draft picks instead of trading them. Develop our own instead of paying big $ for someone elses.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 26, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Mea culpa: Saunders not Gibbs is the culprit.

Man, this wasn't a shaky move, not a bad move, not a questionable move, it was an absolute horrific move.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

It would be nice to keep the ones that deserve to stay instead of going after someone else's too. Pierce and Smoot never should've left. At least we got one back.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

WE are aggressive but misguided, we waste resources because we don't have the GM evaluator, team builder...instead we have the boy owner and the Vinny.... the robertson potential trade is another opportunity for them to evaluate ( i have always thought it should easier to evaluate pro talent than college talent, but what do I know) anyway is he a bust or can he play in our system, what price to pay , when to say no, in other words evaluate it and make a good decision that helps your team..... i would be vary wary of giving up too much in either picks or salary ( or in our case both) I would like my cast offs from other teams cheap and hungry to prove their former employer wrong......

Posted by: Oldschool | February 26, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

The Panthers are going to sign RB Stephen Davis this week, so he can retire with his hometown team. Davis' agent confirmed the move Monday night, and an announcement by the team is expected soon. -- Rock Hill Herald

Posted by: kost52 | February 26, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Mock 1 FA for the Skins

Safety - The Skins need vet help. Erick Coleman - Jets

CB - They need a vet to be the 3rd guy. Drayton Florence - Chargers

OL - This is an obvious need. Jacob Bell (G/T) - Titans

DL - Again an obvious need. Tommy Kelly - Raiders

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

I think B. Lloyd is one guy I can assure you will not blow-up somewhere eles.

The guy is just not that good.

Posted by: SonnyFan | February 26, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Pertinent point from the Post article:

Lloyd, who could not be reached to comment, was designated a June 1 cut for salary cap purposes, executive vice president Vinny Cerrato said, which means his salary cap figure of $4.2 million will drop to $1.8 million on June 1. (Lloyd will count $5.5 million in dead cap space in 2009.)

Posted by: skinfanman | February 26, 2008 10:59 PM | Report abuse

If it weren't for what they're saying, I'd think that they were indeed going after a FA or two. But if they are going for a trade or two, that could be why they are clearing cap space. This worries me because it could mean trading away draft picks. It also worries me because we need an additional infusion of youth. Got to get younger. Come on, they made Vinnie semi-GM, let's see him pick some players in the draft.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 26, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Which is worse, his play on the field or his rapping?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qAgbqeNOvsw&feature=related

I think he called me a cracker

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 26, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Solution,

Danny boy, give me half of what you paid Lloyd, i'll take you in the back and kick you in the balls!!!! ( little Vegas Vacation, I couldn't help myself!)

Posted by: redryan400 | February 26, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

If you type Brandon Lloyd into youtube there are more videos of him rapping than playing football. He got his $10 mil from Danny and is convinced he is going to make it in hip hop so he will never amount to much in the NFL in my assessment

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xpn_YiG-RJU&feature=related

This clip is particularly funny because he raps about how hard his neighborhood is. wikipedia says he went to high school in Blue Springs Missouri. I hear that ranks up there with Compton when it comes to street violence.

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 26, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Just for kicks I looked up the numbers for Blue Springs (income, crime, etc, you know how I like to research stuff). It's pretty Disneylandish, like 3 murders in 7-8 years. That's hard folks.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

scamp,
you sure hes not talking about how hard the fedex bench is?

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 27, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

whats all this talk about trading w/ the jets? the only people willing to trade for their dt is denver and there about to get their man from detroit. skins should wait till the jets are forced to cut him b/c of his monster cap #. vilma on the other hand is worth a mid level pick. hes a perfect replacement for rocky mac this year and can slide to strong side when washington is done ( which might already be the case ). i am always in favor of keeping our picks but for this player who is younger than 25, i make an exception. i also make an exception for l fitz b/c he is under 25 and has proven to be a stud.

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 27, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

as far as free agents, briggs is a good replacement for rocky but when rocky comes back him and briggs are both capable of playing only one position so it creates a cluster fukc. Mccariens just got cut and he is a big reciever w/ huge upside and he wont get much $$$. cromartie is a real good choice at corner and there are lots of good o lineman. they should sign 3 or 4 of the 2nd and 3rd tier o lineman to finally get depth since jansen and thomas are fragile and returning from major injuries.

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 27, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

First of all you don't know who had what input any more than I do, but except for the year when Schott got Vinnie fired, and after Snyder unwisely rehired him, the picks were on Vinnie's watch.

If Vinnie and his scouting staff just fed the input to the overburdened Gibbs, it was the sort of input that led to HIS evaluations and decisions. Funny, when Beatherd was there, Gibbs didn't make many bad calls.

What the team needs is a talented GM, not Danny's Raquet ball boy. It doesn't need a Duopoly of Vinny and dan, it needs a dictator who knows what he is doing.

The team needs a man who will put his stamp on the team. Nope, Vinny's been on the bridge ever since the ship started sinking more than a decade ago. He'd probably try to weasel out of the responsibility for the ongoing series of mediocrities, underachievers and disasters, but he gets the lion's share of the blame.

Even with the good picks--samuels, LL, Cooley--this one step forward, two steps back personnel acquisition approach will never make the Redskins anything other than also rans. Look at the Giants, look at Dallas, hell, even look at the Iggles.

Posted by: corkczar | February 27, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse

last post should have said florence not cromartie

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 27, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Looks like ffloyd's website is undergoing some "updates."

Bet he's raking in some serious hits tonight. Too bad anyone who visits his site will leave disappointed. That's a funny little ironic parallel.

Posted by: Dorf | February 27, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

And the irony is delicious.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse

I know it doesn't tell the whole story, because it doesn't include the players we added in exchange for the traded #1 picks and so forth, but it's sobering to review the draft history from the '80s.

http://www.thehogs.net/History/draftHistory2.php

I think Beathard was GM through the '88 draft? From '84 on those drafts -- his drafts -- are for the most part horrific.

But look at '81! Oh my. May, Grimm, and Grant. Dexter. Charlie Brown. And way down in the 11th round... Clint Didier. On such a foundation were championships won. *sigh*

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 27, 2008 2:13 AM | Report abuse

Er, 12th round for Didier.

Anyhow...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 27, 2008 2:36 AM | Report abuse

Yes we did not have any 1st round picks after 1983. Seemed to do better with late round O line.

The drafts the last 2 years have been better then most up here.

The best thing about Lloyd being cut is stupid bloggers will not be able to say "give Lloyd and chance." The are left with trade Betts and JC.

Posted by: mul | February 27, 2008 2:53 AM | Report abuse

mul, I have been among the stupid bloggers you cite, suggesting that maybe Zorn would give Lloyd a chance, since he (Z Man) wasn't here for the bad stuff. I didn't believe Lloyd was going to turn it around last season, but I was willing to believe it this year in a new regime. But it now seems that Lloyd's getting cut was a foregone conclusion. So, okay. I've moved on.

As for what I'm "left with," I'm sure I'll find something to talk about the rest of the way. Something really, really stupid.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 27, 2008 5:53 AM | Report abuse

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year. They have no 1st round draft picks, should NOT add free agents, and should just bite the bullet this year and next. Get the cap numbers down, get back in the draft game, and then trade down to get more good players instead of trying to get great players early in the draft. This assumes they know what they're doing. I don't, but I'm not a GM.

Posted by: bfjam | February 26, 2008 07:42 PM

Be careful, I suggested something similar last week and got crucified on this blog...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 6:01 AM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.


None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

First of all you don't know who had what input any more than I do, but except for the year when Schott got Vinnie fired, and after Snyder unwisely rehired him, the picks were on Vinnie's watch.

Posted by: corkczar | February 27, 2008 12:36 AM

Corkczar--

Were you drinking last night?

How in the world could Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook be "on Vinnie's watch"? Howard was drafted in 1992; Westbrook in 1995. Snyder bought the team in 1999.

Rod Gardner and Darnerian McCants were both drafted in 2001 by Marty Schottenheimer. (For those of you hankering for a "tall receiver" keep these names in mind.) Remember that Snyder wanted to draft Santana Moss, who went to the Jets right after we took Jacobs.

Your general point of incoherence in personnel selection is right. In the case of Jacobs, after the draft Spurrier, Snyder, and Cerrato were each blaming the others, so we really don't know.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 6:20 AM | Report abuse

Good Riddance to B. Lloyd. If pro sports has demonstrated anything, any pro athlete with rap star aspirations is not good for your team. Shaq is the only exception, but you can still make the argument that he never won a championship until he ditched the rap thing.

Back to B. Lloyd, his acquisition was typical Danny. I don't care which coach wanted him, when you're warned that the guy is a turd, you're supposed to pass. For all the talk of "charting a new course" with Gibbs at the helm, he's sure gone a long way away from the Gibbs Way.

Think about it: this team's identity was carved from the great influences of George Allen and Joe Gibbs. Toughness, heart, football smarts. Physical talent is at the bottom of the list. Those guys went to Super Bowls with guys that were late round draft picks or cast-off veterans from other teams. The Skins were a team you could pull for because they were never the juggernaut Goliath everyone roots against (like the Patriots) that has a bunch of overhyped stars and 1st round picks.

Now they're the team that everyone hates because they're the antithesis of those fine teams of the 70's and 80's. They're all about sizzle and media glare and they seldom give you anything substantive to talk about when it comes to the win column. It's just so depressing to see a team so rich with heritage go so far away from the identity that made it one of the NFL's most storied franchises.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 6:23 AM | Report abuse

Redskins News 'N Notes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Keim
WarpathInsiders.com Feb 26, 2008

John Keim gives an update on the happenings around Redskins Park and his take on the FA situation.

Item: Brandon Lloyd is cut.

Reaction: Hallelujah! OK, let's not go too far overboard, but this is complete addition by subtraction. In my time covering the Redskins (since 1994), Lloyd ranks among the top few most disliked players, along with guys like Alvin Harper and Michael Westbrook. But Lloyd was so unproductive that his being a ''punk'', as one teammate described him, made him an even bigger bust. He did not fit in here; nor did he fit in with the 49ers. Really can't imagine him fitting in on most teams. But at least in SF he was productive. Lloyd will count $4.2 million against the cap this season.

Result: This has no bearing on the Redskins' offseason plans. They wanted to sign a receiver, or draft one. They could opt for D.J. Hackett, but his agent said that the Redskins haven't come up in their internal discussions. Javon Walker is damaged goods and likely will be released, so why trade for him?

Item: Rock Cartwright and Todd Collins will test the market.

Reaction: To be expected. Both want a chance for more playing time than the Redskins can promise. Rock really sounded conflicted when I spoke with him Monday. He wants to be here; he wants to carry the ball more and knows that won't happen here. He looks at himself as a Redskin. I think there's part of him that still feels slighted from the T.J. Duckett trade. The Redskins will not make him an offer before free agency.

As for Collins, it might be best if he goes elsewhere. If Jason Campbell is really going to be The Guy, then it's probably best if Collins is gone. Imagine what will be said and written if Collins outperforms Campbell this summer, yet the job already belongs to Campbell. The players would have a fit. Might be best to trade for Trent Dilfer and develop another young QB as a No. 3.

Item: Free agency begins Friday.

Reaction: By now, everyone knows that the Redskins have said they won't be big players in free agency. It's not just lip service. According to one league source who has spoken to a high-ranking Redskins official about this, they will make their offer and not bid against themselves as they've done in the past. Many times, we might add. It's not just because of the salary cap, either.

Though they're not in great shape, they've never really been in the best of positions when it comes to the cap. And they've always found a way to make it work in the past. But there's a real belief that this year will be different. We'll see. It also helps that this is a poor free agent class. And the things they need (receiver, defensive end, offensive tackle) they can find in the draft.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story URL: http://was.scout.com/2/732442.html

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 27, 2008 6:28 AM | Report abuse

T_E,

You have to believe that Jacobs was a Spurrier pick because of the Florida connection. Not to mention Spurrier didn't give too much of a damn about the defensive side of the ball.

I seem to remember the 'Skins didn't have a 1st rounder that year because of the Coles deal (another great FO move). Thus, the second rounder was their first pick of that draft, and I seem to recall the talk being that Mike Doss was the guy they were set to take there until we were dropped with the Jacobs bomb. So we had a bum reciever and more Ohalete at safety.

Is anyone else depressed?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 6:30 AM | Report abuse

4th,

Thanks for putting up the Keim piece. I wonder what the cap implications are.

Keim says "Lloyd will count $4.2 million against the cap this season."

Jasno in the print edition says, "His release, long anticipated, does not save Washington any immediate salary cap space, with the free agency and trade period beginning at 12:01 a.m. Friday, but will create additional room this June. Lloyd, who could not be reached to comment, was designated a June 1 cut for salary cap purposes, executive vice president Vinny Cerrato said, which means his salary cap figure of $4.2 million will drop to $1.8 million on June 1. (Lloyd will count $5.5 million in dead cap space in 2009.)"

I guess they could both be right.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

Your post makes no sense B Lloyd was typical Danny, Gibbs was in charge he made the call I do not care who was giving him the information if Gibbs is so in to character guys then he should have said no.

I agree the Gibbs way as you put it was great the first time around the difference then however is there was no cap and no FA, plus we had a GM.

Gibbs 2.0 was nothing like 1.0 he went after quick fixes he made stupid trades and he coached scared, if there was any coach in the NFL that did not have to coach scared it was Gibbs there was no way he would get fired.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I am glad to see the FO bashers are back I thought we had moved on.

Anyway Scamp,

How did the CB's do anyone worth taking at 21? I still say we should go DE.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 7:31 AM | Report abuse

I still hope they make an offer to Antwan Odom (DE/Titans) and that he would consider DC a nice place to play football. And for the record now, I am pro-D.J. Hackett and anti-Chad Johnson for the Skins. [Results may vary with other teams.]

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 7:39 AM | Report abuse

Second choice for WR in FA would be the Cards number 3, Bryant Johnson ... with an offer of number 3 money (to be the third guy behind Santana and ARE).

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Your post makes no sense B Lloyd was typical Danny, Gibbs was in charge he made the call I do not care who was giving him the information if Gibbs is so in to character guys then he should have said no.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 07:04 AM

Why does everyone here pile on Gibbs for personel when Danny is every bit as involved? Snyder has had his grimey mitts on the player acquisitions here (sans the Marty smackdown he got in '01) since Day 1! Sure, Gibbs was a party to it, but do you think Casserly or Beathard would have even put Lloyd's name on Gibb's desk just because he made a nice one handed catch in SF?

Gibbs has tried his hand at troubled players before and did well (Manley, Riggins), but never before Lloyd did he get a guy that was a locker room cancer. So I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 7:42 AM | Report abuse

dcsween,

Jasno keeps putting that CJ thing in every story I have heard nothing from anyone else that says they are going after CJ, he also floated Moss in his story today when it is being reported by everyone that Moss is staying in New England. I agree that Hackett would be a good pickup. I do not no much about Odom whats his stats/story.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year.

Posted by: bfjam | February 26, 2008 07:42 PM

Just for fun, we went through the same little exercise that you did. (Because of the new restructures of Samuels and Jansen, the list may be different than yours.) Here are the players to be cut and the amount of salary saved for each in 2008:

Portis - $5.049 million
Springs - $5.000 million
Washington - $4.425 million
Griffin - $4.200 million
Moss - $3.250 million
Rabach - $2.750 million

Those player cuts will save a total of $24.674 million in 2008 salary. That sounds pretty good, right?

There is one problem, however. To cut each of these players, their previously amortized bonuses have to be charged off as well. (These amounts are also known as "dead cap hits".) The dead cap hit for each of these players is as follows:

Portis - $8.785 million
Springs - $4.968 million
Washington - $4.041 million
Griffin - $4.200 million
Moss - $7.750 million
Rabach - $2.200 million

The total dead cap hit for these players is $32.269 million.

The end result is that instead of lowering the cap number, you have instead RAISED the cap number, by approximately $7.6 million for 2008.

As there is insufficient space to absorb that extra amount, you then have the choice to either: a) cut additional players to lower the total payroll without increasing the dead cap hit; or b) perform a few accounting tricks to push some of the additonal dead cap liability into 2009. The easiest way to accomplish (b) is to delay some of the player cuts until after June 1, 2008. However, any dead cap money shifted into 2009 will decrease the number of player cuts you can make in 2009, due to the same formula (salary saved less than dead cap hit).

Of course, there are other adjustments necessary, as there has to be enough cap room allocated to sign all draft picks, regardless of which rounds they are drafted. Also, there will have to be some cap space made available to sign cheap free agents to replace the players who have been cut.

"The bottom line" is that, in order to begin getting the salary cap in with your plan, you are forced to release six starting players and replace them with rookies or cheap free agents. While that may be fiscally responsible from the perspective of the salary cap, such a move would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on the team's performance on the field.

While the ultimate goal of the plan is sound, the related costs to the team's overall financial picture (lost revenues from lower ticket sales, ancillary sales, advertising, etc.) is likely to be significant. The possible indirect costs of such a radical plan may also possibly include the loss of talent in free agency and additional deterioration in performance due to player dissension/unhappiness, resulting in more dramatic losses in organizational revenues. The long-term effects on the franchise would most certainly be negative.

Happy slashing!

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 7:48 AM | Report abuse

I still can't believe we signed that punk, the endearing word teammates used to describe BLloyd.

It's great that he's gone, but I won't be able to get over this for awhile. For starters, he'll count dead cap for at least 2 years (will probably count for as large as our rookie pool of money this year). Secondly, this was without a doubt the worst FA move in the history of the NFL. Not just because of his production, or lack thereof, but because we didn't even trade a good player in '06. We didn't even sign a good guy like ARE is. We traded for an average football, a well-known "cancer" in the league, and everyone knew it but us. To top it off, we gave up 2 mid-round picks, 10 mill in bonus money, WHEN WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO. We ripped up his contract and gave him a new one.

It will be hard for me to EVER get over deals like Lloyd and Arch. One can only hope that the guy responsible for these moves is out of a job, but it appears that you only get promoted for having the single worst free agency in NFL history in '06.

Hey, at least he went on the internet and found Zorn, a guy who reminds me of Gary Busey on the red carpet at the Oscars.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I am not ganging up on Gibbs but he was in charge and if you read earlier post it was Saunders who floated Lloyd's name to Gibbs not Vinny/Dan. I am a realiest and if you people are going to say that all the good moves in personel over the last 4 years are because of Gibbs and all the bad moves are because of Dan/Vinny, then I am going to tell you that you are wrong.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully he can purchase some sunglasses with all that money so the glare off the SuperDome will not make him miss a pass!

Posted by: fearturtle44 | February 27, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

POSTED 10:42 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ESPN PUTS THE STAKE IN SALISBURY

As you likely already know, Sean Salisbury is out at ESPN. (I was out of pocket when the e-mail from ESPN announcing the departure came through the line.)

The move was, in our view, long overdue. Per USA Today, Salisbury's contract had expired. He likely sealed his fate with that disgraceful on-air dissing of John Clayton last month, during which Salisbury called Clayton the "Cryptkeeper."

What an idiot Salisbury is although Clayton does look liked he died three years ago.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

I am not giving Gibbs a free pass, he's at best a party to the misadventures in free agency, at worst he's responsible. But it sounds to me like you want to lay all the Lloyd acquisition and everyone else who was a bum the last 4 years on Gibbs. I disagree with that thinking. The last 4 years, for every Lloyd and Archuleta, there was a Griffin, Washington, Springs and Moss. You're a "realist", so you have to admit that the free agent pickups in the Gibbs 2.0 era are far and away better than anything Danny has done in the years prior. At the end of the day, the only constant in this farce FO is Danny and Vinny.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 8:05 AM | Report abuse

kmdp,

I was the biggest Gibbs basher of them all, but it's hard for me to believe that Gibbs gave his full blessing on this one. I mean, unless the guy didn't pick up the phone once to hear what a jerk this guy was, and still is, no way does Gibbs give the okay on his end.

And as we've seen in recent weeks, Gibbs' blessings (Grilliams) apparently don't hold water over Vinny's blessings (Zorn and everyone else).

But it still wouldn't shock me if SF pulled the wool over coach Joe's eyes, said what a great guy he was, and Gibby didn't look for feedback elsewhere. Gibby back in football was almost as confused as Ronald Reagan (god rest his soul) was during his final days.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

"The bottom line" is that, in order to begin getting the salary cap in with your plan, you are forced to release six starting players and replace them with rookies or cheap free agents. While that may be fiscally responsible from the perspective of the salary cap, such a move would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on the team's performance on the field.

While the ultimate goal of the plan is sound, the related costs to the team's overall financial picture (lost revenues from lower ticket sales, ancillary sales, advertising, etc.) is likely to be significant. The possible indirect costs of such a radical plan may also possibly include the loss of talent in free agency and additional deterioration in performance due to player dissension/unhappiness, resulting in more dramatic losses in organizational revenues. The long-term effects on the franchise would most certainly be negative.

Happy slashing!


Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 07:48 AM

Or the financial armegeddon you're predicting could happen as a result of the high salaries/expectations and low results. I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I never said that Gibbs did not make some good choices but if he gets the credit he gets the blame as well that is how it goes.

Now I am not discussing the FO anymore in this fashion most of us on the Blog have moved on from bashing or defending the FO. We are now discussing the draft anf FA so if you would like to discuss any of that lets do it.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse

When I heard that Lloyd was cut, I had a feeling that the backlash would be revisiting EVERY bad move the Redskins have made, going all the way back to trading for Trung Candidate. The highlight, or lowlight if you will is RB stating he it would be difficult to EVER get over the team signing Arch, and Lloyd. Wow...just wow.....

Here, I'll top that for dramatic effect, I don't know if I'm ever going to get over the team drafting Andre Johnson.....how did I do....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse

I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

Drastic roster slashing as originally proposed by "bfjam" has had severe adverse effects on other franchises in the past. The most notable examples were San Fran (1999: 4-12), and Tennessee (2004: 5-11). Both of those organizations had stable and experienced coaching staffs.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

Drastic roster slashing as originally proposed by "bfjam" has had severe adverse effects on other franchises in the past. The most notable examples were San Fran (1999: 4-12), and Tennessee (2004: 5-11). Both of those organizations had stable and experienced coaching staffs.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

(Mariucci and Fisher, respectively.)

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

I'm not really sure how 2 playoff appearances in 3 years really qualifies as a gunshot wound. And sacrificing 2-3 wins a year turns your team from a perennial playoff contender into a perennial lottery team (using NBA terms).

"They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year."

That's an idea: just as we've finally put ourselves in position to be contenders, blow everything up, start from scratch, and maybe we can be in this exact position 5 years down the road. Brilliant.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Bye Bye BLloyd....wow....the air smells better all ready.

Time for my mantra.

Vilma seems worthy of giving up a pic as he's still young. And we NEED LB depth. Maybe a 3rd this year, 5th next. Doesnt sound to bad. Eh...F that. Build from within.

But still.....Vilma is a great LB. Id rather have him than Briggs.

Dyson would be a good sign for us. If we got Vilma and Dyson/Florrence, we could use the pics on OL/DL/WR.

HAIL!!!

Posted by: GimmyDatPot | February 27, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Now I am not discussing the FO anymore in this fashion most of us on the Blog have moved on from bashing or defending the FO. We are now discussing the draft anf FA so if you would like to discuss any of that lets do it.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 08:16 AM

Yeah, that's a little hard to do when the biggest story in Redskin Nation today is the release of the biggest bust in recent Redskin history (at least Westbrook and Canidate scored touchdowns)...

We can move to FA and the draft. Although, I'll admit that it's hard to jacked for it when I know that A) we're not going to be players in FA, and B) I have an overwhelming feeling that the FO is going to f__k this draft up.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

That's an idea: just as we've finally put ourselves in position to be contenders, blow everything up, start from scratch, and maybe we can be in this exact position 5 years down the road. Brilliant.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 08:35 AM

Dude, stop crowing about the 2 playoffs in 3 years thing. The team has too much talent to just squeak into the playoffs as a 6th seed needing a long win streak at the end to secure it. At that's not mentioning a 5-11 crap-out in '06.

This team is not even close to being a contender. Rookie coaches don't typically do well starting out, especially ones who aren't getting help from the FO. Two key starters on defense are coming off of serious knee injuries, and this team doesn't have the depth to go the distance. And I haven't even mentioned the fact the team plays in a tough division. This team MAYBE makes the playoffs in '08 if it's in the NFC West. Buckle up and prepare for 8-8.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Watched some you-tube stuff on Jordy Nelson, and the Redskins need to get this cat in the 2nd. If they go DL/OL in the first, then Nelson needs to be taken in the second. This kid has great skills.

As far as any trades go, no to Robertson, and no to Vilma, thanks though....Robertson is a bust, so why would ANYONE want to trade for that guy?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

By the way, everyone forget about Vilma. The guy has no cartilage in his knee and he's one hit away from being LaVar Arrington 2.0.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

"Dude, stop crowing about the 2 playoffs in 3 years thing. The team has too much talent to just squeak into the playoffs as a 6th seed needing a long win streak at the end to secure it. At that's not mentioning a 5-11 crap-out in '06"

Sure, until you factor in the death of the best player on the team, the offensive line being decimated by injuries(2 starters being lost in the first 2 games), and the starting qb being lost for the year. Other than that TINY BIT of information you neglected to include, I'm 100% on board with you.

When you paint with broad strokes stuff like that can EASILY be brushed aside. However when you start to include those funny things called FACTS...the picture becomes a little more clear.

Brown, weren't you the cat who said the Redskins weren't a playoff team?? Despite the indesputable fact that they MADE the playoffs.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Gregg,

I am through with Brownwood he only post's when he wants to bash the front office he has nothing else to comment on. So moving on again.

I think Jordy Nelson is going to be a player and I hope we can pick him up in the 2nd round.

Did you see any CB worthy of the 21st pick I still say go with DE.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I hope Danny & Vinny take this as a lesson
not to put much stock in free agents or trades. To build a good team takes a lot of work and some luck. No quick fixes.

Posted by: drpolarbear | February 27, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Gregg,

You and your facts you should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Greg

Nelson will likely be there in the 3rd round. He's quicker than fast. I think he ran a 4.52 at the combine. There are also questions about the offensive system he was in college inflating his stats.

Also I'm not convinced that RObertson is a bust. He played nose tackle last year which is not his thing yet he had a decent year. He may not be worthy of the 4th overall pick the Jets used. However, he might be worth a 3rd this year.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2003 New York Jets 16 43 34.0 9 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2004 New York Jets 16 52 36.0 16 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2005 New York Jets 13 43 27.0 16 3.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1
2006 New York Jets 16 62 36.0 26 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2007 New York Jets 16 57 36.0 21 4 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 77 257 169.0 88 14.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

Posted by: mdvj | February 27, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

lloyd was here before saunders. he was a gibbs favorite.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 27, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

mdvj,

I have seen Jordy on film he is fast on the field in pads that is all that matters, check these videos out and you will see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJyjHB0_agE

Punt return for a touchdown against Texas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo&feature=related

Burning Aqib Talib a projected first round corner.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Good news for you guys about Blloyd at last.

Shame about all the bickering!

Trying is flying is dying...

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

md, Nelson ran a 4.49 at the Combine, at 6'2.5, and 217 pounds. I think once that happened and guys like Malcolm Kelly running a 4.68, he opened a lot of eyes.

km, from everything I've read, this is a deep draft as far as the 2nd/3rd rounds are concerned. There doesn't seem to be a DE, Long/Gholston aside, who has seperated himself from the rest. Campbell can probably be had in the 3rd, or 4th round, lets see how Merling does at his pro-day.

I, personally, want no part of Robertson, not even for a 3rd.

Draft guys that will either start this year, or start next year. No trades. NONE...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Wilbon and others have intimated that Cerrato/Snyder were not responsible for all the bad trades made the last 4 years, that Gibbs and the coaches, for example, lead the charge for Lloyd, Archeleta, Portis (ggod player, bad trade), and Duckett. It'd be nice if Jason or someone else at the Post would look into this. Is Cerrato really a dope or has he never really been in charge?

That said, the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato. With other teams, the press usually is able to figure out who's responsible for what. Maybe the Skins make that impossible by being opaque. I'm just saying that it'd be nice to know more.

Posted by: chris_zz | February 27, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Ahh, brownwood, the ultimate pessimist comes back. I'm sorry, but I just saw a New York Giants team "squeak into the playoffs", go on a serious run to end the season, and pick up their Super Bowl rings at the end of January. And their catalyst for victory: a fresh, 1st-year defensive coordinator.

The truth is, ANY team can change their fortunes in one year. The Packers were 8-8 last year, and everybody was making fun of Brett Favre when he said he thought this was the most talented team he's every played on. They sure seemed like contenders this year to me. The Giants were perennial jokes, with Eli as the quarterback who couldn't step up in any big game, and a team with too much talent that far underachieved. Now they're world champions.

Everyone falls in love with the method of the Colts and the Patriots, seemingly great because they build through the draft. They're not great because they build through the draft. They're great because their talent evaluation is great, whether it's through the draft or other means. There are numerous other teams that build their rosters through draft picks, yet still end up in the cellar year after year. The Colts wouldn't look nearly as good if they had chose Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning. The Patriots wouldn't look like the Patriots if someone had snatched Tom Brady in the 5th round instead of the 6th. It's about evaluation. Don't overpay for underachieving talent. And don't GIVE UP talent when it's not necessary.

We've got talent on this roster. You even say it yourself. Once these guys are unable to produce anymore, then it's time to pull the plug and start over. This team is nowhere near that point.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Until something a little more concrete comes out about the Redskins trading for Chad Johnson, I'm not putting much into that. Mainly, because the Bengals have said they're not trading him, and the PROHIBITIVE cap hit they would incur for doing so.

Again, I'm not trying to let facts skew my opinions...but....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Chris_zz

I agree with you points however I think the Ocho Stinko stuff is coming from Jasno he is the only one I have heard reporting that, and since he had no idea they were going to hire Zorn, I do not think he is getting credible information.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

When I heard that Lloyd was cut, I had a feeling that the backlash would be revisiting EVERY bad move the Redskins have made, going all the way back to trading for Trung Candidate.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 08:16 AM

Trung Canidate? Heck, dude, corkczar was up here last night blaming Vinnie for Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook. Why stop there? He is probably responsible, too, for lung cancer and halitosis.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

lloyd was here before saunders. he was a gibbs favorite.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 27, 2008 09:13 AM

rls,

You've got the sequence wrong. Check scamp's post last night at 8:03:

"The rumored force behind this deal, as reported in 2007 by the
Washington Post, was Al Saunders. Saunders thought that Lloyd had
physical abilities that 99% of NFL receivers could only dream of. He
thought he could get his offense to the next level, beyond where it
was in Kansas City, if the Redskins could get their hands on Lloyd."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

bubonic plague, athletes foot fungus, dry skin, boogers, jock itch, what else can we blame this guy for?

Damn you FACTS, DAMN YOU!!!!

I'm Facts. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

psps

Great points....I'll add my usual it starts with QB.... stability ....coaching ...leading to style of play.....evaluate talent for your roster that fits with your style ....become a consisttant winner.....continue to evaluate and develope talent that fits .....repeat

Posted by: Oldschool | February 27, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I'm Facts. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 09:37 AM

Facts, you're ALWAYS late. We can never find you the moment we need you so, in your absence, we fabricate. And, when you finally arrive, we don't like you at all. In your case, reverse the old saying. It's not "better late than never" but "better never than late."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

POSTED 10:42 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ESPN PUTS THE STAKE IN SALISBURY

As you likely already know, Sean Salisbury is out at ESPN. (I was out of pocket when the e-mail from ESPN announcing the departure came through the line.)

The move was, in our view, long overdue. Per USA Today, Salisbury's contract had expired. He likely sealed his fate with that disgraceful on-air dissing of John Clayton last month, during which Salisbury called Clayton the "Cryptkeeper."

What an idiot Salisbury is although Clayton does look liked he died three years ago.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 08:04 AM

I never liked how Salisbury made fun of Clayton during the fact or fiction segments. I always seemed reminiscent of the jock picking on the nerd in high school.

Good riddance to Salisbury!

Posted by: CBT | February 27, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato.

Posted by: chris_zz | February 27, 2008 09:23 AM

Actually, that idea seems to be coming from Jasno.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I like Nelson too. Is he a 2nd rounder? I'm not feeling it. Here are some better prospects at the WR position

Kelly
Sweed
Doucet
Manningham
Devin Thomas
Deshawn Jackson
Andre Caldwell
Lavelle Hawkins
Donnie Avery

James Hardy
Harry Douglas

Posted by: mdvj | February 27, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Or the financial armegeddon you're predicting could happen as a result of the high salaries/expectations and low results. I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

If you think that cutting those 6 players will result in a 6 ot 7 win season, (9-3=6 9-2=7) you actaully may be a short bus kid. Try a 0 win season.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Good riddance to Salisbury!

Posted by: CBT | February 27, 2008 09:45 AM

I don't know how Sainsbury survived after walking through the halls showing female ESPN employees cellphone shots of his johnson.

Maybe Emmitt Smith can take over the Fact or Fiction segment. He can't even say 'cryptkeeper'.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Hardy has a bunch of baggage that he brings. He's done a 3 day stint in jail, so I'd prefer that the Redskins stay away from him.

Malcolm Kelly ran a 4.68 at the combine, but you'd rather take him? Some of those other guys are exactly what the Redskins have right now, small fast guys. I'd take Sweed in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure he's going to be there at 21. The cat from Mich. State interests me as well, mainly because of his versatility, WR/KR/PR.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Chris_zz
I agree with you points however I think the Ocho Stinko stuff is coming from Jasno he is the only one I have heard reporting that, and since he had no idea they were going to hire Zorn, I do not think he is getting credible information.
Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 09:31 AM

the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato.
Posted by: chris_zz | February 27, 2008 09:23 AM
Actually, that idea seems to be coming from Jasno.
Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 09:53 AM

Jasno reported on rumors, and they were all backed up by Johnson shootong his mouth off about wanting a trade (to anyone, not just the skins) every time he got on tv or radio. Jasno did not fabricate it.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I never liked how Salisbury made fun of Clayton during the fact or fiction segments. I always seemed reminiscent of the jock picking on the nerd in high school.

Good riddance to Salisbury!

Posted by: CBT | February 27, 2008 09:45 AM

I'm with you on the good riddance part, however, about the only thing of any value SS ever added to the world was his trashing of Clayton.

Clayton is the one that really needs to go. He is at the forfront of the AFC is superior movment. If I go on ESPN.com and have to see one more article about his love for Payton Mannings balls and how beautiful they are I may end it all.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

First of all...

WooHOO!!

Good Riddance to bad rubbish! I dont care what the cap hit was Lloyd leaving is best news I have heard in a long while..

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 27, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

dlhaze1, he didn't fabricate it, but he seems to be the only one perpetuating it. I'm not complaining; it makes great blog fodder.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

dlhaze1,

I am not saying that johnson wanting to be traded is not true, I am saying that the Redskins wanting to trade for him is coming from Jasno.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

PFT FREE AGENCY RANKINGS: QUARTERBACK
Posted by Mike Florio on February 27, 2008, 9:20 a.m.
It's time for our annual (give or take a year) effort to rank the next wave of free agents by projecting what we believe their guaranteed money should be.

First up, the quarterbacks.

1. Derek Anderson, Browns (RFA): $12 million.

2. Todd Collings, Redskins: $4 million.

3. Cleo Lemon, Dolphins: $3 million.

4. Byron Leftwich, Falcons: $2.5 million.

5. Josh McCown, Raiders: $2 million.

6. Quinn Gray, Jaguars: $2 million.

7. Daunte Culpepper, Raiders: $2 million.

8. Billy Volek, Chargers: $1.5 million.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

The rumor is coming from everyone's agent using Washington as a player in negotiations in an attempt to get other teams to pay up (knowing Washington will over pay.)

Washington didn't do this last year and doesn't appear to be headed that way this year either. Agents have moved on to using Dallas in this role now, knowing that JJ has lost his mind along with that playoff game.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

PFT.com
POSTED 9:03 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ASANTE SAMUEL SAID TO BE A "DONE DEAL" IN NEW ORLEANS

There's increasing chatter in league circles that the Saints have worked out a deal with cornerback Asante Samuel.

Yeah, it's tampering. But no one seems to care about that.

Samuel supposedly is looking for a contract with an average value in excess of $10 million per year.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

It's great that he's gone, but I won't be able to get over this for awhile. For starters, he'll count dead cap for at least 2 years (will probably count for as large as our rookie pool of money this year). Secondly, this was without a doubt the worst FA move in the history of the NFL.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 07:55 AM

Just catching up guys. I don't understand why people keep claiming that Bloyd was a free agent bust. HE WAS NOT A FREE AGENT. We traded to get him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

PFT.com

POSTED 8:57 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

VILMA TO LIONS?

The New York Jets are shopping linebacker Jonathan Vilma, a 4-3 defender who has struggled in coach Eric Mangini's 3-4 system.

A league source tells us that the current favorites to land Vilma are the Lions.

Another question mark regarding Vilma is a knee injury that significantly limited him in 2007. If healthy, he's capable of creating real havoc.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Anyway Scamp,

How did the CB's do anyone worth taking at 21? I still say we should go DE.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 07:31 AM

There are some good CB's in the draft. Cromartie was real fast and showed good technique, that Flowers kid from VT was good, Talib took some bashing but ultimately looked alright. Still don't think taking a CB in the 1st is the ticket though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Bloyd was a free agent bust. HE WAS NOT A FREE AGENT. We traded to get him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:13 AM

scamp,

As I recall it, B Lloyd was a Restricted Free Agent. The 49'ers tendered him at a level where we would have had to give them a second if we'd signed him. So, we shrewdly traded a third and a fourth for him.

So, if I'm right (it would be about the third time) you can have your cake and eat it too: He is both a (restricted) free agent bust AND a trade bust.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

lloyd was here before saunders. he was a gibbs favorite.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 27, 2008 09:13 AM

Wrong, he was Saunders first acquisition.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I like cake...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

campbell,

I said trade earlier on in my post. Whatever, free agent move/trade/draft pick, it was the worst MOVE in the history of the NFL, PERIOD.

I know most of you will say Ricky Williams for an entire draft, other top draft picks, etc, but a) Ricky Williams was a proven, pro bowl player and b) everyone knows a lot of top picks become busts.

Lloyd, on the other hand, was an average player, on a horrible team, with an even worse attitude that everyone knew about. And not only did we TRADE 2 mid round picks for this average malcontent when we had just signed ARE for 11 mill guaranteed, but we ripped up his deal and gave Mr. AVERAGE Pro-Bowl/#1 WR money. None of it made sense. NONE OF IT.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

touche t_e, touche

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I agree with you Bobby, although I don't think he was THE worst, he sure ranks up there

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I for one, will NEVER be able to move on from the Lloyd fiasco. EVER.

On my deathbed, if someone asks me about my greatest regret in life, I will simply reply, "Brandon Lloyd", as my last breath leaves my body...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

RB,

at $440,000 per catch I would dare say that he is the worst personel move in the history of SPORTS.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I for one, will NEVER be able to move on from the Lloyd fiasco. EVER.

On my deathbed, if someone asks me about my greatest regret in life, I will simply reply, "Brandon Lloyd", as my last breath leaves my body...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:28 AM

LOL

Now someone will cry about losing Pierce in 5...4...3...2...

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

RB,

at $440,000 per catch I would dare say that he is the worst personel move in the history of SPORTS.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 10:31 AM

Easily true, in fact lets not understate it!

Javon Kerse got about 5 million per sack as did Darren Howard. They were both MUCH better moves!

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

sams3. This is not eagles insider.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

On my deathbed, if someone asks me about my greatest regret in life, I will simply reply, "Brandon Lloyd", as my last breath leaves my body...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:28 AM

Most guys' greatest regret has to do with some woman/women and something that should have happened but didn't. You must lead a "different" life if your regret is about Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

greg,

that was kinda funny.

scamp,

can you come up with a better one?

etrod,

that "punk" made more per catch then most of us make in 5 full years at work. disgusting.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

tripsams, are you kidding me? Thats just WAY too recent. I mean, that was 3 years ago. There is no point in starting there!!

We should discuss/dissect the moves that Spurrier made first, and then discuss how Bruce Smith is effecting the team today.

Honestly, whats done, is done. Continually pissing and moaning, and taking a "whoa is us" approach just baffles me......

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

WRs are a funny lot. Gardner was Marty's pick and played pretty well when Marty was coach his first year. Patton played better when he left here. Gafney played a lot better for the Pats than he had at Houston. For WRs it might be more do they fit the system or do they have chemsitry with the QB. BLloyd, though, has many issues and most if not all of them are mental. But then again a lot of WRs are nut cases. Witness TO and Randy Moss and Chad Johnson.

I think they should take Jordy Nelson in the 1st, Dre Moore in the 2nd, and Andrew Crummey in the 5th or 6th.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Lloyd = Spilled Milk

Redskins Insider = Crying over

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Original_etrod, in order for something to be the biggest mistake in all of sports you must take all of sports into consideration.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

skinsfan, Nelson isn't a first round pick. I think he's going to be a stud, but he's not a first round pick. At worst he goes in the third round, most likely in the second.

Talk to me about Crummey though? Where does he play?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Who is crying over Brandon Lloyd?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

sams,

first of all, didn't Kearse have a solid year at some point during his contract?

and even if he didn't, you're missing my point. Kearse and Howard were pro bowl players when they were signed to those mega deals.

kinda reminds me of Trotter signing in DC. Trotter was solid when he signed his mega deal, only to flop here.

we signed a completely average, ordinary, "punk" of a football player to a mega deal, and threw in 2 picks to boot.

give me the name of one other team that has signed/traded for such an average player to that much money up front (when they didn't even have to), plus 2 valuable mid-round picks? Okay, besides the Skins with Arch (WHOOPS)...

Randy Moss, one of the best WR's of all time, was traded for a 4th! That's it. No 3rd too. Just a 4th! And Lloyd got more money than him.

I know it's 2 years ago now, but it's still disturbing to me.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

The biggest mistake in sports has to be Bowie over Jordan.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

RedDMV, have you read any of the previous 300 posts?

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

If you think that cutting those 6 players will result in a 6 ot 7 win season, (9-3=6 9-2=7) you actaully may be a short bus kid. Try a 0 win season.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 09:59 AM

They made the playoffs without most of those guys last year, so I doubt it would be that drastic. I'm just sayin' if you're going to go 6-10, do it with a plan for the future.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

What is lost is never gained again.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Andrew Crummey, DS #11 OG, Maryland

Name: Andrew Crummey (+) Coming off leg injury
College: Maryland Number: 63
Height: 6-5 Weight: 308
Position: OG Pos2: C
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 5.32 40 Low: 5.26 40 High: 5.43
Projected Round: 6-7 Stock:
Rated number 11 out of 176 OG's 224 / 2544 TOT

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think that whoever gets Chris Long is about the get Mike Mamula'd?

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Ryan Leaf, Michael Olowokandi, Kwame Brown. There are way worse personnel moves than BLLoyd. So we lost a couple mid round draft picks and Snyder is out of some money. The POS is gone so lets enjoy that we won't have to see him on the sidelines anymore and pray the days of dealing picks are done.

Posted by: cdubb | February 27, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Redskins FO = Kool Aid
Sams3 = OH YEAH!

Kearse was a very solid player during the Eagles Superbowl year, as was Howard. They were signed for too much money, yes but they were somewhat productive.

Also, Receptions to Sacks is not a good comparison. An average year for a DE would be 5-6 sacks. An average year for a starting receiver would be 55-60 catches.

Maybe Sacks to Touchdowns is more viable, in which case we donated $11 million to the Lloyd, Brandon foundation.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think that whoever gets Chris Long is about the get Mike Mamula'd?

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:50 AM

Sams3,

I think Chris Long had a way better college career then the combine warrior and he comes from a football family,
I am not saying he will be a HOF like his dad but I think he will be a very good player.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think that whoever gets Chris Long is about the get Mike Mamula'd?

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:50 AM

It's always a risk, isn't it? No one other than you has talked about it. Most people would have you think that he walks on water and "he will redefine the position." A Sean Taylor of defensive ends.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Single Mesh Gearbox
Overhead Cam
Mohair motorised wolf
Looking for lambs

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

They made the playoffs without most of those guys last year, so I doubt it would be that drastic. I'm just sayin' if you're going to go 6-10, do it with a plan for the future.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 10:47 AM

Greg,

Can you please respond to this nonsense I am through with Brownwood.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Well, buh-bye to Lloyd. I was one who thought if given the chance, he would probably would've been productive this coming season. Sometimes people just need a fresh start. I guess when he got his money, he had the holier than thou attitude, which is why he clashed with the receivers coach.
I think when the 06' season ended he had pretty much got the idea that he fell out of favor with his coaches despite he was the 20 odd something million dollar man. I think when he was suspended at the end of that season he knew he would not be playing in Washington too much longer.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Well Bobby, here's a couple of other's opinion's:

4. Raiders sign Larry Brown (23 letters)

Cornerback Larry Brown went from Cowboys' Super Bowl hero to obscurity with the Raiders.
It seems the season of the conspiracy theory, so here we go. The Larry Brown and Neil O'Donnell MVP Conspiracy. I admit I was pumped about the signing when I first heard. I saw him pick those two passes in the Super Bowl, and I was a believer. After seeing him get burned by NFL bench-warmers, I had to go back and see what happened. I popped in the tape of the previous Super Bowl and then I realized that O'Donnell was actually throwing the ball to Larry Brown. There was really nothing Brown could do but catch it. It was more of a self-defense tactic than an MVP-caliber play. They probably split that Super Bowl MVP contract money 50/50. Now where is Brown? Probably surfing eBay trying to buy up every video of that Super Bowl that is left so he can burn them. He wouldn't want any evidence coming out. As for O'Donnell, he got greedy and had to rip off the Jets, too. Both of them are thieves.
Fanatic
St. Louis

It's gotta be Larry Brown. I'll never understand how anyone in football could have been fooled by a no-name guy who got hit in the chest by two Neil O'Donnell "hot-read" miscues. Well, anyone except the Raiders, that is. I think his most memorable act in silver and black was keeping Charles Woodson's jersey number warm for him.
Chuck Tetreault
Brooklyn, N.Y.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


5. Redskins sign Deion Sanders (22 letters)

Deion Sanders took the Redskins' money and ran away.
The Washington Redskins' signing of Deion Sanders has to rank as the worst signing of all time. Not only did "Prime Time" set the wrong tone in the Redskins' locker room during the entire season, but his performance on the field came nowhere near justifying the money they spent on him. His brash behavior and foolish on-field antics were an insult to all Redskin fans who had grown accustomed to Darrell Green's reserved brilliance at cornerback. As an added kick in the teeth, his signing necessitated the release of Brian Mitchell, a team leader and loyal Redskin during some of the dark years. If I were Deion, not only would I not want to come back to DC, I would be afraid to come back.
Eric Bruskin
Arlington, Va.

What sets Deion apart from the other Skins on the list is that, as far as we know, every other player listed, whether he be injured or just untalented, actually wants to play. Deion dared the Skins to cut him and said that when they do, he will "jump up and click his heels together because they'll be paying him for doing nothing." The other players are on the list for lack of production, but Deion is simply stealing paychecks.
Tristan Harter
7. Lions sign Scott Mitchell (20 letters)
The world has never seen one player do less. Glad he made $11 million or so to do it. Really, leave it to the Lions (my favorite team, and, yes, I seek professional counseling for this) to sign a guy to a multimillion dollar contract who only saw playing time in Miami when Marino was hurt. The capper is, a healthy Mitchell was busy setting interception records. Not to badmouth the guy, but for the sake of the NFL, I hope he has retired.
Brian J. Desmond
Valparaiso, Ind.

One of the NFL free-agent moves that started the whole salary fiasco was the 1994 signing of quarterback Scott Mitchell. He never developed into the player the Lions were hoping for when they signed him away at three years, $11 million. He started a trend of teams overpaying for unproven backups, and after one decent season for the Lions, he now can't even start for the Bengals.
Dave Valenzuela
Buffalo, N.Y.
9. Browns sign Andre Rison (17 letters)
Art Modell had to beg, borrow and steal every penny he gave to "Bad Moon". After all that, Andre did nothing on the field and Art ended up moving the franchise because he said he was "financially strapped"! P.S. I also agree with your honorable mention of WR Alvin Harper!
Tom Brennan
Cleveland, Ohio

As for me, Lloyd ranks up there with draft pick Heath Shuler and the Deion signing.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Ahh, brownwood, the ultimate pessimist comes back. I'm sorry, but I just saw a New York Giants team "squeak into the playoffs", go on a serious run to end the season, and pick up their Super Bowl rings at the end of January. And their catalyst for victory: a fresh, 1st-year defensive coordinator.

We've got talent on this roster. You even say it yourself. Once these guys are unable to produce anymore, then it's time to pull the plug and start over. This team is nowhere near that point.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 09:27 AM

OK, first of all, you should be glad I'm pessimistic. I thought this team would be horrible in '05 and '07 and they made the playoffs both years. So the more I doubt, the more they win.

Secondly, every team you mentioned in that post (NYG, Packers, Colts, Pats) typically draft well. What's been holding the Giants back isn't their inability to draft, it's been the fact that they had too many blowhards in their locker room (Tiki, Strahan, Shockey). The Packers are notorious for having a couple 4-12s in the name of grooming young talent and being right back in the thick of things in a couple years. I would love for the Skins to adopt the Packers way of doing things (mainly for the fact they have no owner!).

And for your last statement: why wait until everyone gets too old to do it anymore to retool? Then you've got an even bigger salary cap mess and less young talent to pick up the slack. It just seems like a lot of people on this blog want to have their cake and eat it too just like Snyder.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

rb, time to move on.....let it go....let it go..

Chris Long, I think is going to be a good to very good player. I think his college career has been much better than Mamula's was.

original, Kearse signed for 66 million, for that kind of money, he needed to be better than a 'solid player'....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Sams, if people are complaining about Lloyd being cut then thats one thing. Some people like myself think he should have had one more chance under the new coaching staff, but I'm not shedding tears over the guy.
But for those that are beating the dead horse over him being accquired through trade, the draft picks we had to give up to get him, and how stupid it was for the FO, Gibbs, Saunders, or whoever to make the move, then I'm with the history haters (You and Greg). It's time to move on folks.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

No need to get your blood pressure up, if you want to drink Snyder Kool-Aid, enjoy. Just don't expect me to take the same 'Rainbows and Lollipops' viewpoint. I'm curious; if my line of thought is so loud wrong and ridiculous, what's your prediction for the '08 Skins?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

And for the record, Chris Long is going to be a stud. If's he's half the player his old man was, he's going to be great.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

As a loyal RI hamster with the associated attention span (with short term memory deficiencies), I have to ask ... who is this Lloyd person you all are talking about?

Also, kpmg, Antwan Odom is a defensive end on the Titans. He is a BIG, solid end, like Phillip Daniels, with some solid sack numbers (on an annual basis). Admittedly, Stompy Haynesworth is drawing two guys in the middle, and with Vanden Bosch on the other end, the blocking back/tight end need to pick a side, but Odom is, I think, the kind of guy the Skins need to replace Phillip Daniels.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse


original, if you are going to try to justify Howard and Kearse's contributions over b llyod's I can't even argue with that.

The man signed the biggest contract of any NFL dlineman ever and produces 22 sacks in 4 years.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

First of all I only drink Grape Kool-Aid, and the reason I do not hate on the FO is because there is no point.

The 2008 Redskins will be 10-6 and be the 5th seed in the NFC playoffs, this is my opinion. Unlike most people I think the offense will be much improved under Zorn. The Gibbs/Saunders offense had no chemistry until the end when Collins took over. The defense will be improved as well because unlike Manboobs, Blache's ego is not the size of FedEx field.

I think 10-6 in a tuff NFC East is respectable for a first year coach and will be enough to get us that 5th seed.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Also, kpmg, Antwan Odom is a defensive end on the Titans. He is a BIG, solid end, like Phillip Daniels, with some solid sack numbers (on an annual basis). Admittedly, Stompy Haynesworth is drawing two guys in the middle, and with Vanden Bosch on the other end, the blocking back/tight end need to pick a side, but Odom is, I think, the kind of guy the Skins need to replace Phillip Daniels.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 11:07 AM

Thanks dcsween,

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Not sure where you're getting your 40 time for Malcolm Kelly since he didn't run or participate in drills at the combine. He was said to have a quad injury.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=57212


******************************************
md, Nelson ran a 4.49 at the Combine, at 6'2.5, and 217 pounds. I think once that happened and guys like Malcolm Kelly running a 4.68, he opened a lot of eyes.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 09:20 AM

Posted by: JustMe | February 27, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

And for the record, Chris Long is going to be a stud. If's he's half the player his old man was, he's going to be great.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:07 AM

I got all the information I need. If brownwood thinks he will be a "stud" I have to assume he will infact be worse than MM.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I got all the information I need. If brownwood thinks he will be a "stud" I have to assume he will infact be worse than MM.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 11:19 AM

Sams3,

Thanks, for the laugh

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

It's nice to see the hamsters back at the wheel.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

just, one of the bigger name receivers ran a 4.68, I don't have access to draft sites here at work, but look up the WR times in the 40, and you should find it.

I hate facts.....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I was wondering are you Vilma's doctor you posted earlier that you would not pick him up because he has no cartledge left in his knee, I no the guy had a knee injury last year but does that mean he has no cartledge left. I am sure there are guys who have had the same injury as Vilma and have come back to have very good careers, Scamp there is a project for you.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

Your reasoning is sound and makes sense. However, I have a hard time believing that a rookie head coach without even coordinator experience is going to turn this around. Last year Mike Tomlin took a Steeler team to 10-6 and a one-and-done playoff appearance with a roster less than 2 years removed from a Super Bowl. The only weakness that team had is a weak O-line. The Skins have issues on both lines, not to mention a depleted secondary.

The defense should be alright, but this is yet another new system for Campbell. There's no experienced backup to bail him or the team out like Collins did last year. And with a FO that has a sketchy background (at best) with the draft, do you not see where I would be down on this team right now?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Sams, you are the one who brought up the Kearse comparison, not me. I could care less about Philly, but if you're going to start a bogus argument, be prepared to defend your position. The Eagles signed a pro-bowl caliber player and got very little, but they got SOME production. The Redksins made a huge investment in an average player and got nothing in return.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Watched some you-tube stuff on Jordy Nelson, and the Redskins need to get this cat in the 2nd. If they go DL/OL in the first, then Nelson needs to be taken in the second. This kid has great skills.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 08:49 AM

I don't think Nelson will be there in the 2nd when the Skins pick.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

just, one of the bigger name receivers ran a 4.68, I don't have access to draft sites here at work, but look up the WR times in the 40, and you should find it.

I hate facts.....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 11:28 AM

Manningham reportedly was slow.

Posted by: mtnskinsfan | February 27, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Here's the link with all the WR combine results (the rest are in here too)

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2008/nfl_combine_results.cfm?pos=WR

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I was wondering are you Vilma's doctor you posted earlier that you would not pick him up because he has no cartledge left in his knee, I no the guy had a knee injury last year but does that mean he has no cartledge left. I am sure there are guys who have had the same injury as Vilma and have come back to have very good careers, Scamp there is a project for you.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:30 AM

I'm starting to think you just like to disagree with me...

If you've read Profootballtalk.com, Florio has sources that say Vilma's knee is a huge red flag, big enough to jeopardize his effectiveness at best. Like it or not, we're both outsiders relying on the intel of JLC or PFT for inside info.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I'd be in favor of dropping out of the first round altogether in this draft. If we could drop out of the first but pick up a second and third, I'd be ecstatic....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

For those of you who can't get links:

Alridge, Anthony Houston 4.36 0 30 0.00
Amendola, Danny Texas Tech 4.64 13 0 0.00
Avery, Donnie Houston 4.40 16 0 0.00
Bennett, Earl Vanderbilt 4.48 15 0 0.00
Bess, Davone Hawaii 4.69 12 0 0.00
Blythe, Todd Iowa State 4.61 0 0 0.00
Bowman, Adarius Oklahoma State 4.69 14 0 0.00
Bradford, Mark Stanford 4.69 19 0 0.00
Breazell, Brandon UCLA 4.47 0 0 0.00
Brown, Travis New Mexico 4.63 13 0 0.00
Bryant, Dorien Purdue 4.53 0 0 0.00
Burton, Keenan Kentucky 4.43 10 0 0.00
Caldwell, Andre Florida 4.37 0 0 0.00
Douglas, Harry Louisville 4.49 0 0 0.00
Fagg, De'Cody Florida State 4.63 0 0 0.00
Franklin, Will Missouri 4.37 0 0 0.00
Garcon, Pierre Mount Union 4.48 20 0 0.00
Grice-Mullen, Ryan Hawaii 4.46 17 0 0.00
Hall, D.J. Alabama 4.55 0 0 0.00
Hardy, James Indiana 4.47 18 0 0.00
Harper, Justin Virginia Tech 4.52 0 0 0.00
Hawkins, Lavelle California 4.56 14 0 0.00
Henry, Marcus Kansas 4.50 0 0 0.00
Hubbard, Paul Wisconsin 4.46 15 0 0.00
Jackson, DeSean California 4.35 0 0 10.00
Jackson, Dexter Appalachian State 4.37 0 0 0.00
Jenkins, Darnell Miami 4.63 13 26 0.00
Johnson, Jaymar Jackson State 4.49 14 32 0.00
Johnson, Steve Kentucky 4.57 0 32 0.00
Manningham, Mario Michigan 4.59 16 32 0.00
McBride, Shaheer Delaware State 4.66 0 29 0.00
Monk, Marcus Arkansas 4.57 9 34 0.00
Moore, Kenneth Wake Forest 4.47 0 28 0.00
Nelson, Jordy Kansas State 4.49 0 31 0.00
Pittman, Billy Texas 4.76 12 32 0.00
Purify, Maurice Nebraska 4.53 0 28 0.00
Reynaud, Darius West Virginia 4.47 20 34 0.00
Rivers, Jason Hawaii 4.55 0 30 0.00
Robinson, Kevin Utah State 4.69 0 27 0.00
Royal, Eddie Virginia Tech 4.39 24 36 0.00
Sam, Lorne Texas-El Paso 0.00 23 33 0.00
Shields, Arman Richmond 4.44 19 37 0.00
Simpson, Jerome Coastal Carolina 4.47 0 32 0.00
Smith, Marcus New Mexico 4.50 20 26 0.00
Smith, Taj Syracuse 4.55 0 35 0.00
Sweed, Limas Texas 4.46 0 35 0.00
Thomas, Devin Michigan State 4.40 0 28 0.00
Urrutia, Mario Louisville 4.58 16 30 0.00
West, Joe Texas-El Paso 4.51 20 32 0.00

2nd # is bench, 3rd # is vert, 4th # is broad.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: JustMe | February 27, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Vilma's knee condition:

When the Jets made Jonathan Vilma a first-round pick in 2004, they were aware of an abnormality in his right knee. That condition likely contributed to his season-ending injury, a renowned orthopedist said yesterday.

In high school, Vilma was diagnosed with osteochondritis dissecans (OCD), a bone defect that can cause instability and loose particles in the joint. Although Vilma and the team have refused to specify his injury, his right knee does contain loose fragments, it was confirmed.

"A person with OCD has a vulnerable spot on the knee that, from repetitive use, can break loose more easily," said Dr. Nicholas DiNubile, a Philadelphia-based orthopedic surgeon and a consultant to the 76ers. DiNubile hasn't seen Vilma's MRI exams, but he suspects there's a "sizeable defect" in the knee that may need to be repaired with micro-fracture surgery - a six-to-nine month rehab. If it were only one bone chip, DiNubile said, it could be easily removed with an arthroscopic procedure that would sideline Vilma two or three weeks.

On Tuesday, Vilma said he hadn't decided on whether to have surgery, although that appears likely. Either way, he expects to play next season. NFL doctors flagged the OCD at the 2004 scouting combine. Surgery was recommended, but Vilma went for a second opinion and decided against surgery. He didn't want to hurt his draft status. At the time, the Jets confirmed their knowledge of the condition, but they felt it was a worthwhile risk. Two other teams, contacted after the draft by the Daily News, felt the same way. "We have the best medical staff in the league," then-GM Terry Bradway said at the draft. "When they give you the go-ahead, you don't look back."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

testing.....my posts are not showing up

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Slightly off topic here, but as far as the worst moves ever made goes:
Deion Sanders is a tool, and I have a VERY strong dislike for the man, but his acquisition should not rank as one of the worst ever. It was bad, as we simply let B Mitch go because of it, but Peion actually had a good 2000 season for us. I remember him taking a punt back against Tampa that essentially won a game, and he made some game changingf plays against the greatest show on turf that helped seal the win. I can't recall if they lost any draft picks for signing him, but I don't think they did.

The bad part about the deal is that he found out that they hired a coach he would actually have to work/practice hard for (Marty) and QUIT. Flat out quit, and tried to wrangle some baseball loophole in his contract to shaft the skins out of everything unitl he had to admit that he just didn't want to play for Marty, and pay some squably amount of his bonus back ($200,000 maybe???). Then the POS comes out of "retirement" to give his precious Sugar Ray Ray Lewishummers and drive around in mercedes golf carts all during training camp and practice. My point is, the Deion move was bad, but shouldn't be blamed on the FO, it was all that lazy effin greedy sob Peion Sanders' fault. Focker.

RickyBobby, this is the one I will never get over. F Deion.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Check out the video on Foxsports. Adam Schein talks about the Skins. Goes to show you that all Jews don't stick together.

http://msn.foxsports.com/?MSNHPHMN

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | February 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: JustMe | February 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

All right so SUE ME, it was Adarius Bowman, and he ran a 4.69. I'm a compulsive liar.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I think something was reading a few choice words I put in my last post and not putting it up. After removing/changing soe of the wrds, my rant went through. Never had that happen before.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I got all the information I need. If brownwood thinks he will be a "stud" I have to assume he will infact be worse than MM.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 11:19 AM

Hate if you like Sams, but if he's in the right situation and used properly, he could have a bust in Canton with Howie. There's a big difference between a guy who just had a good workout and a guy who has a Hall of Fame dad helping him along.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Talk to me about Crummey though? Where does he play?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 10:43 AM

Crummey played OG for Maryland. He was at the combine but couldn't participate due to some kind of leg injury. Was projected to go in the first day, but the injury will drop his stock. Same thing happened to Heyer.

But Terp DT Dre Moore looked good at the combine.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Ah there is jjwilson...the 6-figure earning computer engineer....or funeral director..which ever fits the lie he most recently told....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Like a wolf my willful loafing
Languishing alone in my lair
Where you will never hear my laughing
I'm half in love with dark and despair
Moons are howling, mouth of mercury
Quicksilver quivering in the sky
It echoes like a cave of chromium
To vacuum up my soul when I die

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Goes to show you that all Jews don't stick together.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | February 27, 2008 11:44 AM

Not like the haters. You back from the Klan rally, jjw?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Adarius "Clyde" Frog

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

My guess is that Adam Schein has never played a down of football in his life (or any sport for that matter). Why does he think he is so knowledgeable?

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 27, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I make 7 figures if you count what's behind the decimal point.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

My guess is that Adam Schein has never played a down of football in his life (or any sport for that matter). Why does he think he is so knowledgeable?

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 27, 2008 11:56 AM

Lisa,

Maybe he's like you. I'm guessing you've never played a down of football in your life, but I often learn a few things from your posts.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

You know why I respect jj? Because at least he doesn't try to hide his bigotry, like some people. And speaking of bigots, what ever happend to liberalmike? He was my homie.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Lisa,

Agreed that guy is an A$$ of course when he is proven wrong you will never heir him retract those comments.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Red, I am a bigot, especially against Gregmarino. Hey greg , whats your email address toughguy, I have something to send you.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | February 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

And for your last statement: why wait until everyone gets too old to do it anymore to retool? Then you've got an even bigger salary cap mess and less young talent to pick up the slack. It just seems like a lot of people on this blog want to have their cake and eat it too just like Snyder.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 10:58 AM

I'm not saying that we should abandon the draft. I'm all for placing an emphasis on the draft. I'm just saying that having draft picks doesn't directly translate into a better team. You've got to be able to turn those draft picks into talent, then turn the talent into productive players. You've already got productive players, but you want to cut or trade them so we can place the emphasis on the draft? It's backwards logic.

"why wait until everyone gets too old to do it anymore to retool?"

So what are you saying? Get rid of them while they're in their prime? When they can add the most to your team? It's one thing if your talking about getting rid of dead money and taking the hit for players like Brandon Lloyd. It's completely different when you're talking about getting rid of top producing players just because they carry high cap charges.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I think he's an architect too. Have you seen that new wing of the Guggenheim?

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh NO!!! Now Madden will really suck. I use BLloyd all the time on Madden. Dang, it another weapon gone...

Might have to switch teams...

Posted by: JoeyV | February 27, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

My guess is that Adam Schein has never played a down of football in his life (or any sport for that matter). Why does he think he is so knowledgeable?
Posted by: Lisa_R | February 27, 2008 11:56 AM
Lisa,
Maybe he's like you. I'm guessing you've never played a down of football in your life, but I often learn a few things from your posts.
Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 11:58 AM

This sounds like Jock-ockrisy (is that how it's spelled?). So what if the guy never played football. Now shut up and look at that little monkey run.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

This sounds like Jock-ockrisy (is that how it's spelled?). So what if the guy never played football. Now shut up and look at that little monkey run.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 12:04 PM

I'm thinking "jockocracy," but I think you've identified the difference btwn Al Davis and Dan Snyder ... the former actually played and coached football teams. Admittedly, both run their organizations on principles of adhocracy.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

So what are you saying? Get rid of them while they're in their prime? When they can add the most to your team? It's one thing if your talking about getting rid of dead money and taking the hit for players like Brandon Lloyd. It's completely different when you're talking about getting rid of top producing players just because they carry high cap charges.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 12:02 PM

You have to tell me who you're talking about. EVERYONE on the O-line is over 30, so the time for their prime is about past. And if a guy is past his prime (Springs, Daniels), no one will trade for him. After all, Vinny is HERE.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh NO!!! Now Madden will really suck. I use BLloyd all the time on Madden. Dang, it another weapon gone...

Might have to switch teams...

Posted by: JoeyV | February 27, 2008 12:03 PM

Is this Dan Snyder?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

What's been holding the Giants back isn't their inability to draft, it's been the fact that they had too many blowhards in their locker room (Tiki, Strahan, Shockey).

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 10:58 AM

The difference with this year's Giants was Spagnuolo. That and the inexplicable play of Eli down the stretch.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Across the league, you see teams doing what they can to wrap up their top guys before they hit the open market. They build through the draft, develop a core of the team with inexpensive guys that they brought into the league and then sign their stars to big money deals and augment that home-grown approach with an occasional guy in free agency that is a good fit for their system. That level of continuity has been proven to work. Recent teams that have done well have a core of guys that they drafted, then a number of guys that were "second-wave free agents" (guys that didn't have big money deals thrown at them the first day of free agency), and then one or two free agent stars.

Look at the Colts and the Pats, even the Giants and Cowboys and Eagles. Colts are almost entirely self-drafted. They stagger when their guys will hit free agency so they can effectively utilize the franchise tag if they have to, to hold onto their guys that might otherwise create a bidding war (Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark). If they don't have a need when it's their turn in the draft, they trade down and collect more picks in future rounds or future years. Occasionally they'll move picks to address a need (mid-season trade to get McFarland two years ago, then getting the pick from the 49ers to draft Ugoh last draft - that move was largely driven by Tarik Glenn). But they are very disciplined and have a strong understanding of value in the marketplace.

The Pats have a lot of guys who were not marquee free agents. Moss was a cheap trade acquisition. Adalius Thomas has been their biggest Free Agent pickup. Otherwise, they've taken smart veterans that want to play there and aren't looking for the biggest deal on the market. The main free agent acquisitions for the Giants were Plaxico and A.P. The Cowboys added TO, but are largely home grown beyond him. The Eagles very rarely chase free agents. These teams were largely built through the draft, supplemented by value additions via trades and free agency.

Guys like Lloyd become available because their prior team was okay letting them go. There are often reasons for that. If they didn't want to let him go because he was a real asset to them, they would have slapped a maximum tender on him as a restricted FA and they wouldn't have given him away for two mid-round picks. When a deal looks too good to be true, you gotta scrutinize it a bit more to see whether it is... the opposite example is Wes Welker. Miami undervalued him, the Patriots came in with a strong offer and the Dolphins were like "take him". But if you go at a restricted free agent with a mid-level offer and the other team jumps on it, you gotta ask yourself "why are they so eager to move this guy at this price?" In the case of Lloyd, it was because he's a cancer. In the case of Welker, it's because Miami was a franchise lacking direction and not understanding what they had and how they could utilize him.

Not only did we give him a good deal of money and devote cap space to Lloyd - we also gave up draft picks. It's one thing to throw money and cap space at a guy, but to give away draft picks on top of it is what kills me. Archuleta seemed like a good signing at the time, but didn't pan out for whatever reason - maybe just a bad fit for the system, maybe he and Gregg clashed and were a poor match of personalities. It's easy to say now that it would've been a better plan to resign Ryan Clark at a lower number than we paid Arch, but at the time, it looked like we were setting ourselves up for an outstanding set of pro-bowl caliber safeties. That obviously didn't work out - but I don't fault the regime for making a foolish move there.

But the Lloyd move was worse - we traded for him (fewer picks to bring in low-priced young talent to develop cheap depth), then instead of making him play out the one-year tender, we immediately signed him to a big extension - and didn't structure the deal to allow us enough opportunities to get out of it without taking a huge cap hit.

There are a lot of elements of the Skins approach that I can accept and see some logic in. The way they write contracts to build in lots of ability to convert salaries to bonuses, spread out the cap hit into future years and constantly have just the amount of money they need under the cap - they are excellent at that. But they do themselves no favors in undervaluing draft picks and not always asking themselves why nobody else wants a guy and why he's available at the price he's on offer for...

Posted by: csh2000 | February 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

The difference with this year's Giants was Spagnuolo. That and the inexplicable play of Eli down the stretch.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:21 PM

Yeah, but it didn't hurt that he has 4 or 5 quality pass rushers (all of which draft picks).

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Also, did all of the Giant's draft picks (from this time last year) actually get playing time in the Super Bowl (except maybe the 4th round guy)?

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

exc, thoughtful comment csh.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Look at the Colts and the Pats, even the Giants and Cowboys and Eagles. Colts are almost entirely self-drafted. They stagger when their guys will hit free agency so they can effectively utilize the franchise tag if they have to, to hold onto their guys that might otherwise create a bidding war (Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark). If they don't have a need when it's their turn in the draft, they trade down and collect more picks in future rounds or future years. Occasionally they'll move picks to address a need (mid-season trade to get McFarland two years ago, then getting the pick from the 49ers to draft Ugoh last draft - that move was largely driven by Tarik Glenn). But they are very disciplined and have a strong understanding of value in the marketplace.

The Colts lose more players to free agency than almost any other club. They have one of the most talented teams in the NFL yet coninually under perform. Bob Sanders is the most overratted player in the NFL.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I remember when I typed long and thoughtful post, now I just settle for short and brainless. Great post, csh.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

csh2000,

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...

Well done. Maybe I'm not wording things right, but that's essentially what I've been trying to say all along and I've been getting persecuted in here. Play on, playa...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

csh2000,

I'm not saying your post isn't well done, but I mean, Brownwood just agreed with you.....

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

The Colts lose more players to free agency than almost any other club. They have one of the most talented teams in the NFL yet coninually under perform. Bob Sanders is the most overratted player in the NFL.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:30 PM

The injury to Marvin Harrison did them in this year.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Bob Sanders is the most overratted player in the NFL.

Did I copy this correctly? How? Why? When he does play a full season, he is easily one of the best safties in the league, and how do the Colts continually under perform?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Also, did all of the Giant's draft picks (from this time last year) actually get playing time in the Super Bowl (except maybe the 4th round guy)?

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:28 PM

I thought the story was that they all got time in the playoffs, but not necessarily in the Super Bowl.

Good work on the adhocracy. Brilliant.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

The Colts lose more players to free agency than almost any other club. They have one of the most talented teams in the NFL yet coninually under perform. Bob Sanders is the most overratted player in the NFL.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:30 PM

Either you're kidding with this or my belief that you're an idiot has been confirmed.

The Colts lose players to free agency because they replace them in the draft. Joe Addai worked out pretty well after letting Edgerrin go. And last time I checked, Dungy's won a minimum of 12 games each year in Indy. And unless America's Game is just kidding, I seem to recall the Colts winning the Super Bowl. Bob Sanders is pound for pound the best safety in the NFL. My only slight against him is that he gets hurt pretty often. But if you've seen their D with him and without him, it's night and day.

Maybe you should watch some games outside of FedEx Field every once in awhile...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Trouble is with the Turcolossus at the helm all we can do is watch and pull our hair out.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...

Well done. Maybe I'm not wording things right, but that's essentially what I've been trying to say all along and I've been getting persecuted in here. Play on, playa...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:32 PM

Brownwood,

The article that csh wrote is not bashing the front office.

All you do is bash the front office and most of the bloggers have moved on from this, that is why you get persecuted.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, Bob Sanders looked great when he was getting worked over in the playoffs

They under perform because they have the most talent on offense in the NFL and have one Superbowl to show for it.

I'm not saying that having only one superbowl is bad but when you have that much talent anything but a bowl is under performing in my opinion. AKA they lost to the Steelers in 2005 and the Chargers in 2007. They lose to teams they are better than.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Andrew Crummey, DS #11 OG, Maryland

Name: Andrew Crummey (+) Coming off leg injury
College: Maryland Number: 63
Height: 6-5 Weight: 308
Position: OG Pos2: C
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 5.32 40 Low: 5.26 40 High: 5.43
Projected Round: 6-7 Stock:
Rated number 11 out of 176 OG's 224 / 2544 TOT

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 10:48 AM

Well, I don't remember where I heard Crummey was projected as a day one. The thing to do is probably to try and sign him after he goes undrafted. Just like we did Heyer.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Bob Sanders is pound for pound the best safty.

It's ashame players aren't sold by the pound or you would be getting a big bang for your buck. Unfortuatly Al Hynesworth was the best defensive player in the NFL this year.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think that whoever gets Chris Long is about the get Mike Mamula'd?

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 10:50 AM

I saw Long play for Virginia against Maryland. I hadn't seen a college player that dominant since Randy White. If there's a can't miss player in the draft it's Chris Long.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The Colts lose more players to free agency than almost any other club. They have one of the most talented teams in the NFL yet coninually under perform. Bob Sanders is the most overratted player in the NFL.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:30 PM

The injury to Marvin Harrison did them in this year.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:34 PM

Which would seem to suggest that it was the NFL draft that did them in last year, in that their 1st round pick, Anthony Gonzalez, was not able to step in for him.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Another Addition of...

Draft Pick Druthers

1st Round
Jeff Otah
College: Pittsburgh
Height: 6-6 Weight: 340
Postion: OT/OG 40 Time: 5.3

2nd Round
Calais Campbell
College: Miami
Height: 6-7 Weight: 280
Position: DE 40 Time: 5.03

3rd Round
Jordy Nelson
College: Kansas State
Height: 6-3 Weight: 215
Position: WR 40 Time: 4.5

4th Round...

5th Round
Shawn Murpyhy
College: Utah State
Height: 6-4 Weight: 305
Position: OG 40 Time: 5.06

6th Round
Corey Lynch
College: Appalachian State
Height: 6-1 Weight: 204
Position: FS 40 Time: 4.6

This would be an absolute steal in the sixth if you have not heard of this kid check him out!!!

7th Round
Jack Ikegwuonu
College: Wisconsic
Height: 6-1 Weight: 202
Position: CB 40 Time: 4.4

Injured himself before the combine completely off most peoples radar but a great player... dont know if he will slip this far but if he does we should take a look

Comments or overall discontent?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 27, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Right here, right now, I am saying I am willing to sacrifice the Skins first round pick (#21) to replace #21 ... the Rams are going to put a first round tender on RFA O.J. Atogwe before the end of the week. I say the Skins make an offer the Rams can't meet, and give up that first round pick. Atogwe is a true free safety (and an awesome one) and LaRon could return to playing strong safety. Every other spot in the roster has a returning starter. Atogwe could replace Sean Taylor in terms of results on the deep ball ... though no one EVER could/will hit as hard as Sean Taylor, Atogwe's hands hang on to some of the balls that Sean Taylor couldn't hang onto.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

The article that csh wrote is not bashing the front office.

All you do is bash the front office and most of the bloggers have moved on from this, that is why you get persecuted.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 12:40 PM

CORRECTION: All the posts you've read of mine are the ones where I've bashed the FO. I've said in this space on more than one occasion that this team will be mediocre and max out at 10-6 until they get a proper approach to the draft/free agency and make a solid coaching hire. That's not bashing, that's reality.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Blazer, (dude)

You really think Calais Campbell is going to be just sitting there waiting for the Skins in the 2nd round.

You've been holding on to bigsmurfs BONG too long. Pass it here.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Why do people think that LL can't play free safty?

Did everyone mis his picks against Seattle? He is faster than ST was, he can cover plenty of ground.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

21 for 21 is probably a good karma strategy sween.

One can argue for CB, DL, or S depending upon who is available when 21 rolls around.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Stump... I am not sure if he will (maybe not likely) but a lot of people are saying his stock has dropped considerably because of his performance at the combine...

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

CORRECTION: All the posts you've read of mine are the ones where I've bashed the FO. I've said in this space on more than one occasion that this team will be mediocre and max out at 10-6 until they get a proper approach to the draft/free agency and make a solid coaching hire. That's not bashing, that's reality.

Brownwood,

You have no idea if Zorn will be a good coach or not, and give them a chance to show you wether they have changed there view of the draft and FA.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

sam3, I'm not saying that LL can't play free safety ... I'm just saying his large, mean physique makes him great for strong safety ... and that replicating dual beastiness in the safety position makes me feel all warm inside ... plus, for the price paid, the first round is fraught with risk of overpayment in terms of performance (esp. at the WR and DE positions).

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

plus, for the price paid, the first round is fraught with risk of overpayment in terms of performance (esp. at the WR and DE positions).

This is 100% accurate.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

The injury to Marvin Harrison did them in this year.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:34 PM

Which would seem to suggest that it was the NFL draft that did them in last year, in that their 1st round pick, Anthony Gonzalez, was not able to step in for him.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:46 PM

Pretty simplistic argument there sween. The Colts picked 32nd and you expect them to find a hall-of-famer? But maybe you was just kiddin'.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

csh - great post. however...

Patriots: Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Roosevelt Colvin, Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dante Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney. None of these players were drafted by the Patriots.

They just ended the season with the greatest regular season of all-time. And they ended with a record of 18-1, something only, what, 2 other teams in history have accomplished. They didn't end up winning the Super Bowl, but nobody can argue that they weren't in prime position to win one.

For every Colts, Packers, and Eagles, you have a Lions, Bengals, Browns, 49ers, and Cardinals who build through the draft and never truly improve. Once again it all comes down to talent evaluation and development. It doesn't matter where you get your talent from. It just matters what the talent does for you when you get it.

Free Agency is still young. Most teams didn't know how to properly manipulate the cap when it was first introduced, and as such, they got burned. If there's one thing Snyder does know, it's how to manipulate the cap. THE PROBLEM with the front office is being able to judge talent on a consistent basis. They're too hit or miss with both the draft and FA. As soon as they become more hit than miss (which they've improved on since Gibbs 2.0 took over), the greater the on-field improvement you'll see (which has correlated to the 2 playoff appearances in 3 years). Once the talent evaluation becomes reliable, this team will have an explosive on-field product - regardless of whether the talent comes from the draft or via FA.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Really!

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

TB

Jack Ikegwuonu has character risk. I think he has a felony count. I wouldn't draft him.

Posted by: mdvj | February 27, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

csh, I know the word on the street is that the Eagles draft well but look back at the past 6 or 7 drafts.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

the opposite example is Wes Welker. Miami undervalued him, the Patriots came in with a strong offer and the Dolphins were like "take him". ... In the case of Welker, it's because Miami was a franchise lacking direction and not understanding what they had and how they could utilize him.

Posted by: csh2000 | February 27, 2008 12:21 PM

As it's vaguely Fins-releated I'll wade in for a moment. Miami never knew what they had in Welker because they never had ANY of the tools (good 1 and 2 receivers, good o-line, good QB play) to see what he was. They did well to get a pick for him as he was already 'gone' (there IS such a thing as tampering you know) which they used to get the guy who will be the Fins Center for the next 10 years. If Welker had stayed in Miami he would have had the same inauspicious year he'd had for them each year he was there. He was a shrewd pick-up by NE based on being one of the few missing ingredients for their offense. For Miami he was never - and would never be - a difference-maker.

sams, go back and read what you wrote about the Clots, do you really think that? Put a fit Marvin Harrison in their team towards season-end and they go back to the championship game with a good chance of beating the Pats.

Presumably Bob Sanders is overrated because %) he got beat in ONE game, and 6) he's never played for the Redskins?

I'd take John Madden 's view of Bob Sanders over anyone else's any day.

Good minds open and take new light until we diminish by the reign of night

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Some notables, JMcdoogle, MMcoy, FMitchell.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

The injury to Marvin Harrison did them in this year.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:34 PM

Which would seem to suggest that it was the NFL draft that did them in last year, in that their 1st round pick, Anthony Gonzalez, was not able to step in for him.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 12:46 PM

I haven't seen many rookies who could step in for a ga-ron-teed future HOF receiver in the prime of his career without a drop in production Sween! :-)

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, you always go back to the fact that I hate everyone that isn't a Redskin, who on the Redskins do I pump up so hard to make you think this?

I don't think Bob Sanders good enough to be defensive player of the year. It's not close minded to have an opinion.

P.S Wes Welker would be the least successful player if he was on any other team but the pats. The man is the same receiver as Kevin Curtis, just in a better situation.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

All you do is bash the front office and most of the bloggers have moved on from this, that is why you get persecuted.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 12:40 PM

Well that and the fact that he's an idiot and he's trying to take credit for what someone else wrote so eloquently.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

sams, go back and read what you wrote about the Clots, do you really think that? Put a fit Marvin Harrison in their team towards season-end and they go back to the championship game with a good chance of beating the Pats.

Coulda Shoulda Woulda doesn't count. The giants had a million injuries yet still found a way.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Blazer, (dude)

You really think Calais Campbell is going to be just sitting there waiting for the Skins in the 2nd round.

You've been holding on to bigsmurfs BONG too long. Pass it here.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 12:50 PM

He was pretty sh!tty at the combine.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Sweed, Limas Texas 4.46 0 35 0.00

This should be the Skins pick in the 1st round, if they want a homerun hitter with size!
Saw him burn great corners multiple times, and had some great games against quality teams such as Oklahoma, and Ohio State.

Posted by: redryan400 | February 27, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I haven't seen many rookies who could step in for a ga-ron-teed future HOF receiver in the prime of his career without a drop in production Sween! :-)

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 01:10 PM

I watched multiple rookies step up for the Giants in order to get the job done.

Past performance is irrelivent only current matters. Shockey is a great tight end and Boss stepped right in there.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Well that and the fact that he's an idiot and he's trying to take credit for what someone else wrote so eloquently.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 01:13 PM

Scamp,

That cracked me up.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Too much football talk up here lately... the is the offseason. Let me know when the jibba jabba comes back (or when the left coasters and far east bloggers start to BTGO.

The Dorf abides until then.

Posted by: Dorf | February 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone agree with Zorn that ARE will be great in the slot? I think this will be a great move, reminding me of a Welker situation already!

Posted by: redryan400 | February 27, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

jjwil, sure thing pal, here is my email address:

gregmarino88@youareamoronbigot.com

Seriously, go enjoy your 6 figure salary that you earn while engineering funeral homes.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone agree with Zorn that ARE will be great in the slot? I think this will be a great move, reminding me of a Welker situation already!

Posted by: redryan400 | February 27, 2008 01:18 PM

I think how good he is will depend on who they have as a #2.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Pretty simplistic argument there sween. The Colts picked 32nd and you expect them to find a hall-of-famer? But maybe you was just kiddin'.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 01:03 PM

Actually, when I made the point, I was serious, but now I see your point ... which is that the Colts machine is only as good as its best players. [At different times up here, e.g., when it was convenient to my arguments, I have made the point that the Colts w/o BBM and the Pats w/o Brady are really just the Raiders with lipstick.]

RC, I wasn't saying that a rookie needed to be able replace an HoFer ... I was saying that their FIRST ROUND pick should have been able to do something (other than burning me in fantasy football by doing nothing). Actually, maybe this goes to show my point about the high hit/miss rate of WRs in the first round ... although Gonzalez WAS the 6th WR picked in the first round.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, you always go back to the fact that I hate everyone that isn't a Redskin, who on the Redskins do I pump up so hard to make you think this?

I don't think Bob Sanders good enough to be defensive player of the year. It's not close minded to have an opinion.

P.S Wes Welker would be the least successful player if he was on any other team but the pats. The man is the same receiver as Kevin Curtis, just in a better situation.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 01:12 PM

It's not so much that you pump the Skins hard as you diss just about anyone else.

Of course it's not closed minded to have an opinion, but it *might* be closed minded to think that the whole of the NFL got it wrong about Bob Sanders this year!

Can't agree on Welker, he does a lot down in the trenches (see if you can catch some footage of the sort of blocks he lays when he isn't the target) and he's a useful returner as well. He's one of those guys who often has a plodding sort of career until he finds the right scheme to play in, and he's found that in NE, so good luck to him. He's not a superstar, he's just one of those guys that can overachieve his talents given the opportunity. Much as I detest the Pats, they did a great job with him and he could contribute for them for years.

IMVHO Kevin Curtis has more in common with Sultana Moss than Wes Welker, which is not to say he's as good as Moss - he plainly isn't - but he's a similar type of player to my untrained, unknowledgable eye.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Correction,

My memory is sh*t, Sweed had average games agianst those teams, and great games against average teams. Ignore my ignorant, not looking at stats before I post comment from above! Pass on Sweed in the 1st!

Posted by: redryan400 | February 27, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS Alert

Congress Pursues Clemens
Congress does not believe Roger Clemens was telling the whole truth. Henry Waxman and Tom Davis have asked the Department of Justice to investigate whether Clemens lied, under oath, to a House committee.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Here's something to debate, just trying to change it up a bit. (From another blog)

A WR who may become available:


Don't expect the Patriots to pick up the $4 million option they have on WR Kelley Washington. In his first year as a Patriot, the former Bengal failed to catch a pass, as he was buried on the Patriots' depth chart. However, the Pats value his tremendous special-teams contributions and would be happy to keep him on board if he's willing to accept a reduced salary.

The Way We Hear It - NFL pro football rumors and insider news from Pro Football Weekly

Kelley Washington

This is a relatively young guy (28), good size 6-3, 215, who has been buried on a couple of rosters. In Cinci, he was behind CJohnson, TJ Who's Your Mama and Chris Henry (who, despite being a d-bag, was a pretty good WR). In NE he was behind Moss, Welker, Stallworth.

Not saying this guy is a sure No.1 or even No.2; I do think that he is at worst a replacement for J. Thrash. Good special teams, and when given the chance in Cinci, due to Henry's suspension - he flashed some ability.

Not sure of any bad PR on the guy. Worst thing you can say is that given the opportunity he hasn't been able to step up and even be a No.3 in Cinci and in NE he couldn't beat out Stallworth or the other NE receivers to even crack the no. 4 spot consistently. Also, he may just be one more body comparable to what we already have on the roster. My gut says, however, he could be a breakout WR waiting to happen.

I have always liked the guy and think, if he a) can be had at a reasonable price; and b) is willing to leave NE - might be worth a flyer. Assuming he has the ability I think he does, He and Moss could be good combo as a pair of No. 1-2 WR's (i.e. not quite a pure No.1, but better than the average No.2).

Just a thought.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

You really think Calais Campbell is going to be just sitting there waiting for the Skins in the 2nd round.

Um....he didn't exactly impress. Did you happen to catch his act at the combine? He ran poorly, and a good number of corners out-benched him. I wouldn't be surprised if he lasted till the third round. His lack of fast-twitch movement, his awkwardness when running, unless he runs at the Miami Pro-Day, then he's left everyone with a very poor image of himself.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

No seriously greg, cmon tought guy. Instead of everyone else reading our comments we can settle this on on own little blog... chicken sh#t.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | February 27, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I watched multiple rookies step up for the Giants in order to get the job done.

Past performance is irrelivent only current matters. Shockey is a great tight end and Boss stepped right in there.

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 01:15 PM

Boss had 1 great catch and run for 45 yards in the SB, 9 all season. Steve Smith had 5 catches in the SB, 8 all season.

Agreed, the Giants rookies played the games of their lives (so far) in the super Bowl. But Smith and Boss still had Plaxico on the field to distract the Pats, the Clots either didn't have Harrison on the field at all (New England and Chargers during regular season) or a fit Harrison (Chargers in playoffs) to give their offense enough balance.

Oh, and Billy Volek played the clutch like a champ!

If past performance is irrelevant, why does any team need to keep their current playing staff?

Being a clone I have no flaws to identify
Even this doggerel that pours from my pen
Has just been written by another twenty
telepathic men
Word for word.... it says
"Oh, for the wings of any bird other than a
battery hen"

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Hey, where's cload?

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

jjwil, ok, you got it here it is....

gregmarino88@youradouche.com

if that doesn't work, try:

gregmarino88@I'm jjwilson. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

That must be why they're advertising for lots of marketing people JM!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Okay, okay, okay, I've been living under a rock. (But I am plugged into RI, which steers me in the right direction).

I'll go make a ham sandwich for Calais Campbell.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Please don't tell me we're going to have to pay a subscription fee to BOGO!

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Actually, maybe this goes to show my point about the high hit/miss rate of WRs in the first round ... although Gonzalez WAS the 6th WR picked in the first round.

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 01:24 PM

I wouldn't give up on Gonzalez yet, your fantasy team notwithstanding. He seemed to play better later in the year. He was a rookie for chrissake. Besides, the Colts I think figured him to be the #3 with Harrison and Wayne, and Clark at "TE".

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I saw Long play for Virginia against Maryland. I hadn't seen a college player that dominant since Randy White. If there's a can't miss player in the draft it's Chris Long.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 12:46 PM


He definitely put on a clinic. He made just about every kind of play that a defensive player can make in that game.

I saw every Virginia game that was broadcast out here in the Pac NW (about a half-dozen), and he was consistently a force in all of them. Even in games where teams were specifically scheming against him, he managed to make plays.

I do believe he has the fire in the belly.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

stump, for a guy that a lot of people had going in the first round, Campbell's performance was somewhat shocking in how poorly he did...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Quarter-mil a catch.

Nice work if you can get it.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 26, 2008 05:43 PM


*wince*

Ouch. I shouldn't do quick math in my head while I'm packing up my things and getting ready to head out the door. At least not if I'm going to post my wrong calculations to the Internet.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Um....he didn't exactly impress. Did you happen to catch his act at the combine? He ran poorly, and a good number of corners out-benched him. I wouldn't be surprised if he lasted till the third round. His lack of fast-twitch movement, his awkwardness when running, unless he runs at the Miami Pro-Day, then he's left everyone with a very poor image of himself.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 01:33 PM

I agree Calais hurt his status this week. He's a boom or bust pick. When the new Skins D-Line coach was at The U, Campbell did have his best stats. It'll be intersting to see what the Skins will do if he's in the 2nd.

Posted by: mdvj | February 27, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I just talked to the ticket office about down-grading my tickets and they assured me that every general admission seat in the stadium is sold to the fans, and not a ticket agent that rhymes with Flub Dub and is plastered all over the team's website.

Isn't that interesting. In any case, they weren't very helpful with my down-grade request. I still have to pay my regular invoice in full, give blood, donate my left nut, and then wait to see if they can accomodate a move backwards.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Kelly Washington will re-sign with NE. Check out Rotoworld.com to view latest info.

Also, anyone remember the Pre-season game right after Carlos signed with us against Cincy? Washington straight smoked Carlos but dropped the ball. Then the very next play they went right at Carlos again with the same play and he flew right by him and caught the TD?

Not sure why I just remembered that - but there ya go.

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 27, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Okay, okay, okay, I've been living under a rock. (But I am plugged into RI, which steers me in the right direction).

I'll go make a ham sandwich for Calais Campbell.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 27, 2008 01:48 PM

Does this Calais kid have a brother named Cutlass and does he come in rich corinthian leather? Oh wait, that's his other brother, Le Baron. He played for the skins, right?

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone agree with Zorn that ARE will be great in the slot? I think this will be a great move, reminding me of a Welker situation already!

Posted by: redryan400 | February 27, 2008 01:18 PM

I think how good he is will depend on who they have as a #2.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 01:20 PM

And I'm hoping it's Jordy Nelson on the side opposite Santana. The guy is just a football player. And he doesn't own an ipod.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 27, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh wait, that's his other brother, Le Baron. He played for the skins, right?

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 01:56 PM

I thought he played basketball in Ohio? I'm so confused!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Hey, does Le Baron mean The Baron?


Could La'Ron be an abbreviation?

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

scamp, I have a recollection that the Skins were considering a move for Kelley Washington in this past offseason. [Might require a google search on Jasno posts.]

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Hahaha, funny guy Greg. Here is my address jjwilson@gregisawasteofsperm.com

There I have stooped to your level. If you aren't going to settle this with me personally, then just ignore my comments and I will ignore yours.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | February 27, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Hey, does Le Baron mean The Baron?

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 01:58 PM

would that make you The Rrybud?

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

MDVJ I didnt know he had character issues but that is something to consider

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 27, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

I need coffee.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

freakzilla@iameatingapeanutbutterandjellysandwich.org

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

For the last 15 minutes or so I've been LMAO regarding only two post, and they belong to greg and jjw.

gregmarino88@youradouche.com & jjwilson@gregisawasteofsperm.com

This ish right here is just too damn funny to me. LOL!!!!

Posted by: RedDMV | February 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

turcolossus@redskinspark.com

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Particle Accelerators
Morality Degenerators
Dadata Disseminators
Cyclotron attenuators
Hyperspatial Conflagrators
MEST Integrators

What's a battery hen anyway?

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

woejustwoe@redskinsinsider.edu

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Does Blloyd use potty words in his rapping?

I hope not.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Found this blog a couple of months ago and am getting my Skins fix. However the wit is what keeps me here, especially with my lack of. But how can you not enjoy all of the love in here!!

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

kerzon417@lackofwit.org

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Just playin' around kerzon. Welcome!

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Bone City

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

BLloyd@jobsearch.com

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

mine-

scampbell1975@icutandpastesh!t.com

or

scampbell1975@ifukingluvcoloring.com

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Good sammich Freak?

Einstein was not a handsome fellow
Nobody ever called him Al
He had a long moustache to pull on -
It was yellow
I don't believe he ever had a girl
One thing he missed out in his theory
Of time and space and relativity
Is something that makes it very clear he
was never gonna score like you and me
He didn't know about Quark, Strangeness and Charm

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

bringoutyourdead@freeagency.com

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

barno@standupifyouloverushlimbaugh.com

redcoat@bedwettingliberalpinko.commie

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

smack@brokeback-n-blue.cow

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I took high school French.
I do believe that LaRon is French, translating to "The Ron". Although by rule "La" is the feminine of "the", so I might be slightly of La Base.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Nice article:

http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/02/27/marcus-washington-stands-alone/

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 02:23 PM

Nice find

Posted by: sams3 | February 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

[url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/][img]http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6973dacd87.gif[/img][/url]

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Copernicus had those Renaissance ladies
Crazy about his telescope
And Galileo had a name that made his
Reputation higher than his hope
Did none of those astronomers discover
While they were staring out into the dark
That what a lady looks for in her lover
Is Charm, Strangeness and Quark

Pure genius, that one!

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

[url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/][img=http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6973dacd87.gif][/url]

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Just playin' around kerzon. Welcome!

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 02:23 PM

Not a problem. I need all the help I can get. LOL!

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Blloyd could actually make his mark on the rap world by bragging about white collar crime. After all, he embezzled a cool $10 million from an industry giant, and got away scot free.

I was playin' Halo
got a check in the mail-o
I stole a lotta moolah
but I'm not goin' to jail-o

Like that, but over phat beats.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26@smokes26"brownwood.gay

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

freakzilla@ijustprovedhowwhiteiam.com

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"This date in RI History" [with appropriate nod to the "Chick from Montgomery Village," MV Dame].

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/02/free_agent_update.html

Note the cast of characters (PDiddy, sfskin, AMTTS, The Gov, Nate, Megskin, Lisa, 4-12, SMACK, Cindy, JM220, 4th Floor, dcsween, cload and dagger, Paps in Manilla, Ocho-Ocho, Dorf, Old School, LH, Greg/Boston, charlie). The jibba was jabba'ing and the humour was humour'ing.

Posted by: notguy | February 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Hey, does Le Baron mean The Baron?

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 01:58 PM

would that make you The Rrybud?

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 02:06 PM

Apparently it would make me The Lady Rrybud. I feel pretty, what with all these romantic science poems being bandied about.

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Agreed SMACK.

hese are the first signs of Sonic Attack:
You will notice small objects, such as ornaments, oscillating.
You will notice a vibration in your diaphragm.
You will hear a distant hissing in your ears.
You will feel dizzy.
You will feel the need to vomit.
There will be bleeding from orifices.
There will be an ache in the pelvic region.
You may be subject to fits of hysterical shouting, or even laughter.

Not such a great one, but fun to listen to!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

freakzilla@totallywhiteenoughtorunarapmusiclabel.com

Posted by: freakzilla | February 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

smack@brokeback-n-blue.cow

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 02:29 PM

lol

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

OK, let me give it a try:

Kerzon417@

never mind :(

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

OK, let me give it a try:

Kerzon417@

never mind :(

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 02:36 PM

best one of the day!

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

etrod@goodatpointingouttheshortcomingsofotherstodeflectscrutinyofhisowninsecuritiesthatstemfrombeingcutfromthejvfootballteamandsubsequentlylockedoutofthehousebyhisalcoholicfather.tv

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

How bot Kerxon417@whatthehe**doeskerzonmean.net

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

redcoat@clownpenis.fart

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

TheLadyRrybud@genderidentitycrisis.porn

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

markin21132@iwanttowinthelotteryandretire.now

Posted by: Markin21132 | February 27, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

LarryBud@wastingthetaxpayersmoney.duh

Posted by: LarryBud | February 27, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry@rihasbeenmakingiteasiertogetworkdonelately.org

Posted by: chrislarry | February 27, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

JJ-willy are you seriously trying to act like a tough guy on the blog?!?!

truly hysterical.....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 27, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Chris Larry is the only person I know that acts tough on the blog.

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

kerzon@iamatreky.ds9

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 27, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 27, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Chris Larry is the only person I know that acts tough on the blog.

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 02:55 PM

...said the guy with the hammer.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"...the jibba was jabba'ing and the humour was humour'ing."

Posted by: notguy | February 27, 2008 02:35 PM

After REPEATED denials, Redcoat exposes himself (and his bodily "humours").

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

jm220@neverlandranch.kid

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

gregmarino88@whathaveidonetotheblog.com

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

JM please don't make me kick your azz....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 27, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Try again Smack

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

FlimFlam@HereThereBeShabingus.com

Posted by: FlimFlam | February 27, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

jm220@beefitswhatsfordinner.eat

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 27, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

After REPEATED denials, Redcoat exposes himself (and his bodily "humours").

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 02:59 PM

Keep guessing 'sween. I TRULY am not 'notguy'. I think it's a regular but I'm leaning more towards Nate than anyone else....

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Cyber tough guys are the best.

freakz -
got a check in the mail-o
I stole a lotta moolah
but I'm not goin' to jail-o

These seem more along the lines of Adam Sandler Operaman lyrics.

Posted by: cdubb | February 27, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and 'sween may your humo(u)rs sometimes be aqueous, but always viscous!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

It's so much nicer up here today - good work everyone. Keep it up.

Posted by: mmok | February 27, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

CL@wearspinklipstick.com

Posted by: jm220 | February 27, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: dcsween | February 27, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Bounder: Well, listen... can you say the letter K?
Smoketoomuch: Oh, yes. Khaki, kettle, Kipling, Khomeini, Kellogg's Born Flakes.
Bounder: Well, why don't you say the letter K instead of the letter C?
Smoketoomuch: Well, you mean, pronounce "blassified" with a K?
BOUNDER: Yes, absolutely!
Smoketoomuch: Klassified.
Bounder: Good!
Smoketoomuch: Oh, it's very good! I never thought of that before. What a silly bunt.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 27, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

beep, beep

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

qdanbl nbygukmp pzakgidye bdakr ciunbdj shctkfa trxzbjo

Posted by: pritdlcf aofpwdhkx | April 16, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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