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What's on Tap Today

While the scribes are getting into position to ask some questions today, Dan Steinberg found a different vibe to the Skins-Cowboys rivalry last night at FedEx Field.

As usual, if it's Monday, there will be chats. Cindy Boren is up at 11 a.m.; Mike Wilbon steps into the Chat House at 1:15.

By Cindy Boren  |  November 17, 2008; 9:50 AM ET
 
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Next: Washington, ARE, Betts Are Biggest Concerns

Comments

Any word on Betts and ARE injuries? I assume Marcus is out the rest of the year with a hangnail.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 17, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Stay medium, people.

I still see an 11-5 finish.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 17, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

repost my #'s
17's stats w/ JJ vs SH (note Detroit in here for both starters as SH was the LT in that game, I have posted those # after so you can factor that into what you see)
Jansen as a starter
Record 4 W 3 L
comp 137
attempt 214
comp% 0.64
Yds 1475
avg per pass 10.77
TD 5
INT 3
Sak 21 3 per game
Sakyds 142

SH
Record 3 w 1 L
comp 84
attempt 121
comp% 0.69
Yds 975
avg 11.61
TD 5
INT 0
Sak 8 2 per game
Sakyds 64

@ DET Opponent
W 25-17 Record
23 comp
28 attempt
82.1 comp%
328 Yds
11.7 avg
1 TD
0 INT
3 Sak
24 Sakyds
127.4
Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse


Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

When can we start talking Draft?

Posted by: KingME1 | November 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Sure king but why bother with next years draft. Let's talk 2013 draft. Anyone know of any good high school juniors we should be looking at?

Posted by: Gweez | November 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

11-5 is a joke, right?

We're going to go 3-1 against the Giants, Ravens, Eagles, San Fran (who destroyed the Rams)? Not to mention well probably lose to Seattle.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 17, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

alex35332

I think the will need to make a switch there as well although going to Hayer as RT is complicated by the Samuels injury and no depth at the tackle position. JC will need time to strech the field with some deep shots. Otherwise get use to these low scoring games.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

"look at all of our wins RUN FIRST, PASS later."

This is the biggest misconception of them all. The reason the skins were so effective in the beginning of the season was because Zorn set-up the run by going to the pass. This happened in every one of our first 5 games, with the exception of 1 game: Week 1 @ Giants. At Dallas and at Philly Portis went off IN THE 4TH QUARTER. THAT is where he would do his damage. JC, Moss, Cooley, and ARE would soften teams up, Portis would finish them off.

Since Philly, Zorn has lost his identity. He began to believe the hype that Portis was the guy carrying this team (he wasn't). He began to believe the hype that Portis is this unstoppable force (as much as I love him, he isn't). During the first 5 weeks, Portis was the beneficiary of a creative offense and the most dangerous downfield combo in the league with JC/Moss. Philly resorted to triple-teaming Moss, even when he had zero catches well into the 2nd half. That's what made Portis go.

Now, it seems like Zorn believes only Portis can carry this team. He also has completely moved away from the "midwest" style offense, largely taking away Moss' deep routes, JC's shotgun formations, and Portis' playaction passes. He's nearly completely transitioned this team to the "West Coast", which in my mind signifies foolish pride. Stick with what works. You found a formula fit for this team, why ruin it? I know he's a west coast guy, but sometimes you've got to take one for the team.

I truly hope this is a wake-up call for Zorn. Put your trust back in Campbell. Simplify the offense. Stretch the field. And most importantly, get back to the aggressive nature of the underdog fighting to steal a game on the road.

Posted by: spizzle

Posted by: spizzle | November 17, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

11-5 is a joke, right?

We're going to go 3-1 against the Giants, Ravens, Eagles, San Fran (who destroyed the Rams)? Not to mention well probably lose to Seattle.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 17, 2008 10:16 AM |
------------------------

LOL... I love your optimism.

Seriously though, I felt the O-line lost this game; maybe someone needs to be benched to wake the other 4 guys up.

If JC gets better protection, the Skins win this game. Anytime you only give up 14 points and have 2 picks, you should win.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

It appears that the Skins offensive line needs to step it up and even with blitzing the defense cannot get to the QB. I kept wishing last night for them to at least bang Romo 7-10 times to get him out of rhythm to no avail. I at least hope they keep J Taylor on the right side of the D to see if he can recapture his magic. I once thought that we would haved the Manley and Mann combo with he and A Carter but it has not shown itself. It must not be Gibbs that keeps us from scoring, it must be the players because this team is not scoring as well. One thing for sure Chris Samuels, Casey Rabach, and Thomas were clearly outplayed last night and they need to concentrate on doing better. The D never adjusted to the outside running of Dallas in the 1st half. The only good thing that happened last night was D Hall catching a pass thrown to him and it became contagious when McIntosh held on to the the tipped ball. Maybe this is an omen of better things to come. Now can they win 5 out of the last 6 to be 11-5, a record that should make the playoffs? We can only wish they go on a classic end of the year Skins finish of previous playoff years!

Posted by: mixbagaudio | November 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

IMHO.....the key sequence of the night...

we finally get some momentum and move the ball---then this happens..

*3rd and 6 at Dal 36--Can't get the right personel on the field ...12 men in huddle penalty.
*Then -- amazingly - have to call timeout
*Sack on Jason takes us out of FG range.
*Punt -- Rock for some unknown reason tries to fly full speed onto a STOPPED football.

Dallas then gets the ball at the 20 and scores at 1min left in half.

That was a 14 point swing.

Posted by: cej75024 | November 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

The whole line is dinged up. Vinny's saying that its not the o'lines fault that TEs and Backs are in there to block too. But the TE and Backs were fine on the blocks.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

We can only wish they go on a classic end of the year Skins finish of previous playoff years!

Posted by: mixbagaudio | November 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

True enough...but geez...for once it would be nice not to have to hope for winning 5 in a row !!

Posted by: cej75024 | November 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

fact: when the skins were losing last year with JC in there all, including jasno, who were defending jc's play's #1 excuse was "the o-line isn't blocking" and the #2 was "skins need a #2 receiver".

fact 2: todd collins came in and proved it wasn't the o-line.

opinion: it's not the o-line again. jc has improved from last year but he cannot play without play action. the dude isn't that kind of QB. he needs a consistent running game. he can't do it with 2 20 yard rushes and 10 2-3 yard rushes. first drive was the perfect example of this. and what the frigidy f u (K happened to him on the second series? and why wasn't he in when they had the ball at the dallas' 20 yard line after his run?

opinion: zorn isn't an offensive genius. the dude needs to go back to gibbs football.

opinion: the D played well but could not score. i like his D better than gregg's but i just don't like him.

fact: the difference between the giants of last year and the skins of this year is that they had an awesome D-line.

fact: vinny hasn't done sh ti as a GM.

question: if skins go 2-7 after being 6-1 do you keep:
a. zorn?
b. draft another QB?
c. fire vinny?

and we are for sure going to hear a lot of negative press coming from BalPo (pseudoname: wapo) this week but please please rember this is the same paper that was telling us to sign JC to a contract extension. please rember that. and also 10 posts about how leigh torrence was a bad move...

F this paper's coverage of the skins!

Posted by: dealer1 | November 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Spizzle, I couldn't disagree with you more, look at the stats over the last 2 games, Zorn has done nothing but throw the ball. Portis has a total of 28 carries in 2 games. We only ran the ball 17 times last nite while Campbell threw 34 times, that is a recipe for a lost.

Posted by: russelljharris | November 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Stay medium? Why not try staying real? Who out of say the next 3 does anybody see this team beating? With the way they score? Even Seattle score 20. We can't score 18.

Posted by: ridgely1 | November 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

On a non skins note, I think I am the only person in the US who thinks Quantum of Solace was better than Casino Royal.

Its plot was a bit more Bondesq, It deals with a far more real and complex issue of global crisis of our massive water shortage being overlooked because people are more into looking at the Oil problem, vs a guy playing cards. The bad-guys are better/more complex/ realistic and sinister.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

fact 2: todd collins came in and proved it wasn't the o-line.

Yea, Todd Collins had a GREAT game against that Seattle Seahawk pass-rush last January.

Posted by: spizzle | November 17, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

question: if skins go 2-7 after being 6-1 do you keep:
a. zorn?
b. draft another QB?
c. fire vinny?

Posted by: dealer1 | November 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Dealer, I don't think anything happens. Danny won't fire his boy Vinny...why draft another QB and go through the process with Campbell, Brennan, AND a rookie...i don't think you toss zorn away after 1 year

Posted by: cej75024 | November 17, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Whoa...this guy is letting Vinny have it on the radio.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 17, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Lisa_R

I find it hard to believe that Springs would be practicing with Davis. One is on the first team, the other is still looking for his first catch... That was kinda a joke, but seriously, if he was blowing everybody up in practice, don't you think that would translate into more playing time, or at least a look in his general direction? Lord knows we need playmakers.

Posted by: bg21 | November 17, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

this process is simple, winning teams, championship teams run the football. Giants didn't beat the steelers and Ravens by throwing the ball they ran the football. Look at what the boys did to us, they ran the ball, then ran it some more, beat those dlineman down, will slow that pass rush.

Posted by: russelljharris | November 17, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Well, I don't want to talk about too much today. Just feel sick.

When you loose the games you coulda shoulda woulda - it's disheartening. Still mystified about getting less healthy in a bye week. Still wondering why the rookies are so clueless. Still wondering why Jon Jansen is in on passing downs.

Still wondering how after 4 weeks we still don't know how to manage a game. Bad timeouts. Bad timing on the play calling. Soup - seriously? You can't call a play on your own when the radio is out? You've been reading D's how long now?

Still think you can't beat Zebras as well as the other team.

Happy Monday, sukkards.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 17, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Dealer, I don't see us doing anything of those options. We have the plan B QB already in Colt *who will not start until we get 2 more seasons of failure.

Zorn will get another 2 years to pan out

Vinny wont get in trouble and just got totally called out by a caller as a failure and a joke on his own show, "let the coach focus on the fundamentals and you start working as the supposed personnel guru".

Caller said that he sees Kelly dancing late nights in clubs, the junkies heard about 2 different players were out getting trashed till 1 am night before the game.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure what the difference is between Gibbs and Zorn football. People are acting like before this year the Skins never ran slants or Wr screens. Its all they did then and its all they do now.

The only differnce is atleast Gibbs was a winner.

Posted by: Pleepleus | November 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Also, why do we seem to always get our skirt lifted up on National TV?? NYG , Pitt, and Dallas....all three games we looked like a bunch of pansies that look afraid of the spotlight.

Posted by: cej75024 | November 17, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Some idiot just called in and told Vinny that Rock Cartwright was on his last days and should be gone. Hello?

Some of our fans are beyond STUPID.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 17, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

russelljharris - Those stats are skewed, IMO. (1) Becuase Portis was banged up (obviously), and (2) Because we were forced into the pass late in games after going down.

Against Dallas in our first game, Portis/Betts combined for 15 rushes in the 4th quarter. They had only 17 rushes combined through the first 3 quarters. This was the team's identity through the first 5 weeks. Open it up early with the pass, finish them off with the run. Since then, it's been the opposite. Try and set the tone with the run, then play catch-up with the pass later in the game. The latter has not worked so well.

Posted by: spizzle | November 17, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

No word yet on injuries. We should start finding all that out shortly....updates usually come as I'm chatting.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | November 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

can we deal away with "stay medium" it was a good thing to say when you are winning but what I see in this team are guys who are not affected by losing, I am not asking for everyone to be radical, but maybe a little tangy or maybe spicy barbecue? not to extreme but there is definitely some kick to em. Calling Stephon Heyer...

Posted by: theFreshinAU | November 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The Curse of Leigh Torrence begins.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | November 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I believe that Leigh Torrence used telekinesis to push Rock Cartwright in to that punt.

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

It's the LINES, stupid.

Danny "Shiny New Toys" Snyder doesn't know that.

Vinny, "My chart says I have to draft nuthin' but receivers in the second round" Cerrato doesn't know that.

The Pollyanna, FO does no wrong, everything's hunky-dory "cork your an idiot" posters on this board dont' know that.

FOOTBALL people know that. The two best teams in football? The Giants and the Titans. The two best biggest bestest sets of linemen in the NFL? Ditto.

But why did the 'skins Oline do so well early in the season? Because the smallish, very old men hadn't been worn down yet by the big young men they had to block.

And by the way, I was one of if not THE first to say Jason Taylor was a BAD BAD trade BEFORE it was made, and have said it ever since.

But VInny thought he could out-fox Bill Parcells, and took a disgruntled, sore-legged, about to leave football, overpaid, 244 pound DE off Miami's hands for a second rounder and a sixth.

Okay, sure, Vinny would have converted the 2nd rounder into a WR who can't play or remember the playbook, but a REAL football man would have known it was a bad trade.

SO now the Chilly winds blow, smashmouth prevails and the Redskins OL--undersized, beaten and battered, is being worked every week.

Said it before, say it again. This team doesn't return to Glory Days until the OWNER puts a real football man in charge--or sells the team to someone who will..


Posted by: TheCork | November 17, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

By the way I put those numbers I got up earlier in the QB raiting calculator. With Heyer JC's raiting is 107.28, with Jansen its 86. 9

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Where was Jason Taylor last night? Why do we have a gm with a radio show? When is Laron Landry going to play up to his potential? Why are our draft picks not contributing? Why is the O line performing so poorly? Why is Zorn so emotional on the sidelines? Are the playoffs within reach?

Posted by: dargregmag | November 17, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Where was Jason Taylor last night? Why do we have a gm with a radio show? When is Laron Landry going to play up to his potential? Why are our draft picks not contributing? Why is the O line performing so poorly? Why is Zorn so emotional on the sidelines? Are the playoffs within reach?

Posted by: dargregmag | November 17, 2008 10:48 AM |

On Dancing with the Right Tackle

Because he can

maybe he already is

Not sure most of them are not getting on the field.

Because they are old and worn down

Don't care lots of great coaches show emotion on the sideline, Cower, Chucky in TB

Yes

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else see LaRon is lowering his head on the tackles and not making them in a way where it stops the guy at the point of contact? He needs to keep his head up so he hits the guy the right way to keep him from getting that extra 1-2 yds

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

maybe with this loss Zorn will realize the difference in the offense in the beginning of the year as opposed to now. people just need to settle down, no one is going anywhere, do you think Indy fans were calling for dungy to be fired, draft a new Qb when they started 1-2? and does anyone know what the tiebreaker is with us and dallas? the only thing i see is we beat arizona, who dallas lost to.

Posted by: theFreshinAU | November 17, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Said it before, say it again. This team doesn't return to Glory Days until the OWNER puts a real football man in charge--or sells the team to someone who will..

Posted by: TheCork | November 17, 2008 10:45 AM |

Come on, Cork. You've been the number 1, numero uno, cheerleader for the front office. Now, suddenly, at the first sign of trouble, you change your tune and pull this "said it before, say it again..." stuff?

Do you think we have no memories? I've been reading this blog for a long time and I've never seen you say a bad word about the front office before today.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 17, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Teams have adjusted to his playcalling, it has become very predictable right down to routes being run. Campbell can't stay upright long enough to get the ball down the field. Late in the year running the football is important and Zorn does not utilize his strength enough

Posted by: russelljharris | November 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Tiebreaker's based off division and conference standings.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

i really think jc is a better qb than shEli...i know i'm biased and all...but i really think that. the dude was doing so well from week 2 to 7. i honestly don't know what happens to zorny and jc in the spotlight they turn into to turds.

Posted by: dealer1 | November 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

does anyone know what the tiebreaker is with us and dallas? the only thing i see is we beat arizona, who dallas lost to.

Posted by: theFreshinAU | November 17, 2008 10:55 AM |

Common opponents will now be the third tiebreaker within a division after head-to-head games and division record because each of the four teams will have 14 common games in the 16-game schedule. The owners also moved the strength-of-victory tiebreaker ahead of the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

does anyone know what the tiebreaker is with us and dallas?

We have a better conference record right now. (Division record comes first, but we're both 2-2 right now and split our head-to-head).

Posted by: spizzle | November 17, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Just to make sure I wasn't imagining it, I looked up some stats last night

D. Evans 2 tackles, 3 assists.
A. Carter 1 tackle
J. Taylor. NOT LISTED.

Not listed? But I saw him play! What does that mean? Oh, right. No tackles. no assists. No sacks. No passes defensed.

Old guys get hurt. The gutsy ones play thru it.

Can't afford Springs. Ditto M. Washington. Gifted when healthy-- rarely healthy.

If the skins had any other WRs, I'd say ditto Moss.

As long as the skins play 3-4 teams, Rabach will be too small.

Jansen's about done.

Kendall's 95 years old.

If lucky, will beat Philly. Lose to Giants.

Every injured WR will magically recover for Seattle, including Steve Largent. Lose one of three, perhaps 2 of three among Seattle, SF and Cincy.

Boost from skins gets Dalles into playoffs.

'skins finish middle of pack, trade first rounder for three #2s, again draft receivers. Vinny continues to lose at racketball to Dan, keeps his job.


Posted by: TheCork | November 17, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

If I am correct...prolly not...

2 team tiebreaker is head-to-head...then either division or conf. receord.

3 team tiebreaker (ex: Dallas , Skins and Tampa) Eliminate one of the similar division teams...of which we hold the edge over Dallas. THEN you go against the other team.

Posted by: cej75024 | November 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

the tango
is it that big of a deal, he is not on the field right now, or calling the plays

he is making a lot of tackles, the only time he was "brilliant" was in one game last year
No PT
Old and slow, I thought the bye week would have done them good
you need some emotion, and it only happens when there is a lapse of concentration
yes we need to go 4-2 at least

Posted by: theFreshinAU | November 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

BEEP BEEP

Posted by: theFreshinAU | November 17, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

When can we start talking Draft?

Posted by: KingME1 | November 17, 2008 10:12 AM |

Good point. We should move the draft discussion up to Wednesday. Usually Wednesday is the day for examining last year's draft, but we seem to have gotten ahead of ourselves, especially with Corkczar flip-flopping and blowing his cork to attach Vinnie.

Now that our record is headed south, I think we may have a high enough draft pick to get a premiere WR in the first round. And, we can get a franchise place kicker in the third round. Late rounds will be for LB's and linemen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 17, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to run the ball more, here's proof. Portis runs for 20yds, we have 1st and 10 from dall 17, Zorn calls 3 straight passes result-missed FG. 3rd and 2, Zorn calls a pass result-INT, Last possession, 3rd 4 Pass-incomplete, 4th 4 -game over. if you are going for it on 4th run the ball on 3rd. I know i'm playing Mon morn QB, but running the ball is a must.

Posted by: russelljharris | November 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

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