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Davis wonders how Redskins' offense will change

With the hiring of Mike Shanahan apparently imminent, players have discussed how things might change under the seventh head coach in Daniel Snyder's 11-year tenure as owner.

Throughout his long, successful career, Shanahan has been considered among the game's brightest offensive tacticians, and players expect him to scrap Jim Zorn's version of the West Coast offense, which the team used the last two seasons. Second-year tight end Fred Davis could be among the players most affected by yet another major overhaul of the offense.

Davis as a rookie struggled to grasp Zorn's scheme and often acted immaturely, team sources said. His lack of production and unprofessional behavior (he often giggled in team meetings) prompted some Redskins observers to quickly label the former second-round pick a draft bust.

But Davis took a big step forward after Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley suffered a season-ending injury in the Oct. 26 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. Davis finished the season with 48 catches for 509 yards (a 10.6-yard average) and a team-leading six touchdown receptions. He was a force in the mid-range passing game and replaced Cooley as quarterback Jason Campbell's favorite target. And his work habits improved significantly, teammates said.

With Cooley recovering well from his leg injury, Davis already had questions about how both would be used next season in Zorn's offense, and "now, I don't know what to expect," Davis said. "You hear that coach Shanahan is a great coach, and you know Mr. Snyder is going to do what's best for the organization, but you just don't know what's going to happen."

On Monday, new General Manager Bruce Allen instructed assistant coaches to provide evaluations of players. No player on the roster made bigger strides than Davis during the second half of the season, many in the organization said, and the rest of the league has noticed, too.

"The other day when I was warming up before the Charger game, [Pro Bowl tight end] Antonio Gates, one of my favorite tight ends, came up to me and was like, 'Hey, man, you're doing real good. You can be a good player,' " Davis said. "I know I can be. I see what I can do. That's why I'm just going to work real hard this offseason.

"I really feel I can be one of the top tight ends as long as I keep getting those opportunities. But with a new coach, you're not sure what we're going to do. I want to just keep going and keep doing what I can to help the team. But you have to see what happens. Until you start, you don't know what they think of you because it's all gonna be new. You know what I mean?"

Zorn planned to use Cooley and Davis together "with one tight end to be the pass-catching receiver and the other one to be a blocking tight end," Davis said. "I didn't know how that was gonna work.

"Now, with new coaches, I don't know if that's something they would want to do. I don't know how that situation's going to play out. But I guess we'll have a new coach soon, and then we'll all find out."

By Jason Reid  |  January 5, 2010; 2:29 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid , Mike Shanahan  
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Next: Portis on Shanahan, 'star treatment,' Campbell

Comments

It will change by trading Coooley and Sleepy starting....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

a screen pass to Davis with Cooley blocking woudl be a thing of beauty

Posted by: skinball77 | January 5, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ToddStinkston | January 5, 2010 2:23 PM

No worries...I don't mind a good discussion. I'm just not going to have a petty argument w/ anyone that's not my wife.

I agree with your post however what concerns me with keeping CP around next year is the cap ramifications in 2011 when you can basically be granted a mulligan by cutting him this offseason.


Posted by: Diesel44 | January 5, 2010 2:35 PM

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 5, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Why not have 2 receiving tight ends sometimes? Zorn was tunnel visioned about too many things.

Posted by: ridgely1 | January 5, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

first...second... third

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The biggest problem that needs to be fixed is that all players need to be on time and give a crap. Obvious from yesterday's comments that was not the case under Zorn.

How much can you put on the player, and how much on the organizational dysfunction? Not sure that it matters anymore, but what needs to change is that every player gets the same treatment up and down the organization. If Portis is banged up and needs to rest his body, that is one thing. Popping off in the press and being an overall slacker is another. Not saying he was an overall slacker, but he sure didn't like to practice and we've all seen and heard his comments.

I think it comes down to having a meeting with Shanahan... clear the air, get expectations on the table up front. "CP you wanna be here under the everybody is equal rules, blah blah blah?"

Portis can be a huge asset, but he is not somebody we can not live without. If CP is smart, and i think he is, he will realize nobody is gonna drop all the coin on him he is due from the Redskins next year, so he better get on board the train for the big win.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like Davis wants Cooley to get out of his way... I would trade Cooley for OL, gotta think we could get a starting Guard or RT for him or 2nd rounder (nothing less).

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

a screen pass to Davis with Cooley blocking woudl be a thing of beauty

Posted by: skinball77 | January 5, 2010 2:38

WHAT? Do you have a clue?

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan"s first "smart" pre-headcoach move:

Bringing back RB Anthony Alridge, this guy will add a demension to the RB position that's been lacking...SPEED. Zorn simply refused to give this guy a shot because he didn't want to upset Portis by playing a much quicker, faster back. This will be one of Shanahan's best decisions.

Posted by: kingpenn1 | January 5, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Zorn was tunnel visioned about too many things.

Posted by: ridgely1 | January 5, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

In poker terms, Zorn "played his own cards". Its what beginners do.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I think Peter King is emerging from the considerable shadow of his SI colleague, Dr. Z. Zimmerman was a Monk hater and blatantly dishonest in his appraisal of Monk.

Zimmerman was probably the most influential writer, and I suspect King was a follower. Now that Zimmerman is no longer involved, King's thinking doesn't appear as clouded.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Trade Davis while he has value and jettison the stench from the Vinny the Pasta Boy era. Cooley has earned his keep - Davis will be an underachiever.

Posted by: i155133 | January 5, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

All of you Davis lovers who want to get rid of Cooley, You forget Davis drops more balls than he catches, and he is the type of player who will quit on you.

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

edvar, your putting the cart before the horse. Lets focus on building a good team and maybe wining 1 superbowl first.
Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 2:35 PM |

Gonna disagree with you here. Why not set the bar high? Why not demand excellence? As long as we're building a football team, why not try to build a perennial champion?
Posted by: edvar | January 5, 2010 2:39 PM

I am with Edvar. Building a good team and winning one superbowl are a part of the plan, but if you don’t think that Allen/Snyder are asking potential coaches what their 5 and 10 year plans would be, and that it’s okay to NOT think that far ahead, you’re crazy. You HAVE to think ahead; for example, draft like the Eagles/Steelers/Colts/Pats, who draft for depth and system fit and then have guys ready, and I mean really ready, to step into starting roles when their time comes. Snyder trying to win one super bowl and thinking he’s always one player away is what got them into the mess they are in now.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Davis wonders how Redskins' offense will change"


They'll score more of those things...how do you say it..."Tooch-dawns?" Can't remember the pronounciation. Been too long.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully this will be the wakeup call to Siberia-firstly, I'd expect long neglected upgrades to the O-line, since it is the fortified nucleus on which the O-Macht depends for survival. The supply lines to Campbell were scant, and all judgements of Campbell are tainted by the lack of protection he received..The O-Macht may thrive under new Gruppe Marshall McCoy or Bradford , however..

Posted by: frak | January 5, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

My take is that you trade Davis. He has more value since he's younger, plus he really hasn't proven that he can do what he did for part of the season for an extended period of time, which Cooley has. Someone's going to want Davis and he might be a great TE one day, but in my opinion, Cooley's better and always will be. He never had issues learning an offense as Davis did and it sure didn't take him a year and a half to get on the field.

Posted by: rawk | January 5, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

What's up JReid, I was waiting for you to post a link to what Pete Prisco thinks of the Skins!

Are you done outsourcing now? Let's hope so.

Posted by: filmchis | January 5, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Aldridge and Mason cannot block. That's why they did not play. Portis might be a lazy SOB but he was, by far, the best blocking RB in the NFL. Which is a big reason why his body has been shutting down the past two years. He played football the right way. If he would have just been willing to do pre season and practice he could have been one of the best ever. His body also would have been more likely to hold up longer. It's his head, heart, and mouth that got in the way though. I am ready for change because of that. It is very possible that Snyder's relationship with Portis could have harmed his career. But hey he got paid.

Posted by: Mike4169 | January 5, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

From some of the things I had read, seems like if there is no cap for 2010 it will never be coming back. One side was adamant about that, I'd assume the players so they can get as much money as possible.

If free agency is going to be weak, trades may be the only way to rebuild the offensive line along with the draft. TE is one of the few positions we have a surplus and 2 guys other teams would want. I will be surprised if both are around next year.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | January 5, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is an artist. He knows a good offense is a thing of beauty.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

"Davis as a rookie struggled to grasp Zorn's scheme and often acted immaturely, team sources said. His lack of production and unprofessional behavior (he often giggled in team meetings) prompted some Redskins observers to quickly label the former second-round pick a draft bust."

^has to be the most copied and pasted paragraph this year.

Also, team sources = Rock, Sellers, and Suisham.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 5, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"Davis as a rookie struggled to grasp Zorn's scheme and often acted immaturely, team sources said. His lack of production and unprofessional behavior (he often giggled in team meetings) prompted some Redskins observers to quickly label the former second-round pick a draft bust"

What a load of bull excrement....his lack of production was directly related to his lack of playing time, because his former coach hadn't a clue. Davis went from not knowing how to play, to playing well once Cooley got hurt...yeah, thats on Davis....idiot...

giggling...gimme a friggin break...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

All of you Davis lovers who want to get rid of Cooley, You forget Davis drops more balls than he catches, and he is the type of player who will quit on you.

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

How do you know he'll quit on you? Got any examples?

Try this idea......why trade either guy?

Crazy sounding for sure, but you may actually create a mismatch on the field.

Posted by: ksquare | January 5, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is a proven pro bowl player and Davis is not. Come on, people!

Posted by: SkinzVA73 | January 5, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

If Cooley and Davis can get a little bit better on their blocking, it could be a sky is the limit scenario. Picture a 3rd and one with a Jumbo offense ;2 TE (Cooley and Davis), 1 WR who can go deep (Moss or Thomas), tailback (whoever), Full/H-back (Sellars/Yoder). Defense is stacked for a run stuff. QB then audibles to shotgun, splits Cooley and Davis out and sends Yoder/Sellars to the line to block or go out………championship!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I think trading either would be a terrible idea. Keep them both and completely screw with D-coordinators. Few teams in the history of the league have had such a good duo of TE's.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is not going anywhere, Davis had one second half of the season where he produced but in no way would I trade Cooley this comin gyear, keep them both as we see injuries can be a significant factor.

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | January 5, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Hill no!!! Keep Davis, TRADE COOLEY...........

Posted by: jiza32 | January 5, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I say trade Davis at his current peak of popularity. People seem to think he can be great, so that makes him worth something.

We already KNOW that Cooley IS great! He loves the Skins, the town, and he's flat out better in any case. He doesn't drop balls like Davis does.

Why anyone would want to trade Cooley instead of Davis is beyond me.

Posted by: REXskins | January 5, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Why anyone would want to trade Cooley instead of Davis is beyond me.

Posted by: REXskins | January 5, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Some people hate the popular guy.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Can we get off the Davis giggled thing already?!? See jreid, this pettiness is why people don't like you.

What we know of Davis is he hadn't "earrrrned the right" to play, yet when cooley goes down with injury, all of a sudden he's making enough plays to have Antonio gates noticing all the way from SDouZo you tell me who didn't earn the right, Davis or coaches??

Posted by: AdamCr | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

keep both, no brainer....if they prove after a season that they can't coexist than you can trade one at higher value than they represent now. You are not getting equal value back, so just keep both dudes as they represent 2 slots on any list of Skins "Top 10 players with actual talent and ability"

Either one can play the slot, even some wideout in certain packages...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

All of you Davis lovers who want to get rid of Cooley, You forget Davis drops more balls than he catches, and he is the type of player who will quit on you.

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

_______________________________

Yeah, but his junk won't be on the internet... This town needs to get rid of the goofballs... Gil, Cooley, & Portis.

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I hate to state the obvious, but you want to keep both TEs because football is a dangerous sport and injuries are a big part of it. But I should think Shanny can figure out a way to keep them both involved. Maybe they each play a little H-Back.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"Trade Davis while he has value and jettison the stench from the Vinny the Pasta Boy era. Cooley has earned his keep - Davis will be an underachiever."

Posted by: i155133

So trade Davis, a younger guy, who doesn't have the resume, but has more potential due to his natural skills to be better than Cooley?

"All of you Davis lovers who want to get rid of Cooley, You forget Davis drops more balls than he catches, and he is the type of player who will quit on you."

Posted by: jmy999

And you forget Cooley has a minor fumbling problem. Coughed it up several times last season and a few in the games he was in. And when had Fred Davis quit on the team? I swear, some of you just pull s_hit right out of your asses and state them as facts. When have you seen Fred Davis sulking or pouting on the sideline this season?

Whatever.

No one on this team is sacred. Chris Cooley is good, there isn't a doubt about that. But for all you Cooley slurpers, you should check Davis' stats and realize that he had about the same amount of production as Chris Cooley would've had (given Cooley's pace at the time of his injury) in fewer games.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I hate to state the obvious, but you want to keep both TEs because football is a dangerous sport and injuries are a big part of it. But I should think Shanny can figure out a way to keep them both involved. Maybe they each play a little H-Back.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM

Yeah, what he said....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, but his junk won't be on the internet... This town needs to get rid of the goofballs... Gil, Cooley, & Portis.

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

My point proven. Guys just hate the popular guys. The dude apologies for the photo going up and thats the worst he has done. Not like Cooley brings a gun to the Skins locker room.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

And you forget Cooley has a minor fumbling problem. Coughed it up several times last season and a few in the games he was in. And when had Fred Davis quit on the team? I swear, some of you just pull s_hit right out of your asses and state them as facts. When have you seen Fred Davis sulking or pouting on the sideline this season?

Yes Cooley did have a problem with fumbles this year.
When did Davis quit, how about his first day of practice as a Redskin, when he was a no show.

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Cooley = Great White Hope


For the record, I'm on board with keeping them both. Use Fred Davis like Gates and have him lining up to the WRs, have Cooley on the LOS like Dallas Clark.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"I say trade Davis at his current peak of popularity. People seem to think he can be great, so that makes him worth something".

Brilliant. Trade away a possible strength. Great idea.

Posted by: ksquare | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the Alridge thing. He will be a major part of the offence if Shanny is here. It was Shanny's guy afterall and he recommended him to Vinny. SO that kinda solves RB. Not entirely, but that gives us a homerun threat. Now focus on OL.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I like goofballs in sports, its part of what makes it fun...although Portis/Cooley goofball is maybe a wee bit different than gunplay in locker room.

Tony, my guess is you can't wait to we actually have robots playing sports...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Aldridge and Mason cannot block. That's why they did not play.........
Posted by: Mike4169

----------------
This is Zorn tunnel vision thinking...Alridge would be used as a 3rd down back and for screens passes and passes out of the back field. Think Chris Johnson before he took over the starting RB job. Think Darrin Sproles...Don't think like Zorn and not play Alridge

Posted by: kingpenn1 | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree with alex, even though everyone seems to think we have to trade one or the other, in which case I would trade Davis.

The best idea would be to use them both. We have an opportunity with two excellent receiving TEs to do something unique with our offense. To miss that opportunity by trading one of them to go with a more conventional system would be disappointing.

Spend a ton of time teaching them to block, bulking them up a little if necessary. If they get blocking skills, a 2 TE 1 RB set could be devastating. Run left or right, Pass left or right, Screen left or right. How can you turn that down!?

Posted by: REXskins | January 5, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

It is very possible that Snyder's relationship with Portis could have harmed his career. But hey he got paid.

Posted by: Mike4169 | January 5, 2010 2:52 PM

I think Portis should retire because it would be the best thing for him. He's made his money, and he's left his mark on the game. But concussions are a worry now, in addition to all the physical abuse he's taken. They seldom go quietly, but CP should hang 'em up.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 5, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse


from Fred Davis,

"Antonio Gates, one of my favorite tight ends,..."


Shanny's first objective is to decide if Davis can be a tight end-lite receiver like Dallas Clark.

One massive Zorn-failure was not spreading the field with Davis lined up 'flexed'.

Who covers a guy as big as Davis running seam/post routes while Chris Cooley is breaking behind him on some other route?

And then you still have Moss/Thomas/Kelly working the other side of the field.

There are a lot of clever scheme opportunities for Mr. Shanahan to think up.

All he needs to do is get some blocking in the house to make it work.

'Cuz without blocking, nothing he draws up will work.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 5, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

How Dr. Z could be a Monk hater all those years is beyond me...I am guessing it had to be because Monk didn't like to talk to the media. It can't be because of his play because Monk was all man.

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | January 5, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Wish someone would tell Davis to stop trying to hurdle guys.

Cooley is good. Davis is good. Figure out a way to use them both.

From what I've seen:
Cooley is slightly better at blocking and has better hands.
Davis is more athletic.

Like I said, keep both, find a way to use both.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 5, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

jmy, that's just plain stupid.

So the guy as a ROOKIE misses his first day of practice, and he's given up on the team?

I mean, that's the only knock on Fred Davis. And that was TWO years ago.

When you got guys like Gates coming up to you giving you props then you're doing something right.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Keep both Cooley and Davis, at least for next year. I'm not under the impression that either guy has a terrible contract that should be shed during next year's uncapped season.

Posted by: acoberst1 | January 5, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Having 2 TE's that can both average 3-5 catches a game and about 50 yards a game is a huge safety valve for a WR.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

When did Davis quit, how about his first day of practice as a Redskin, when he was a no show.
Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM

Wow. That does not equal “quit”. That logic doesn’t even warrant a “nice try, though”…….wow.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Trade????

Please, please provide in your trade demands, what you would expect to net in return any proposed trade.

i.e.

Cooley - probably not a 2nd, most likely a 3rd rd
Davis - maybe 2nd, probably a 3rd.

Now ask yourself if that is a fair return. Nobody on this roster outside of Orakpo is worth a 1st.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I had/have a hard time liking Davis b/c he represented such a bone-headedly dumb move.

But the dude is beast and one of our lone bright spots, as is Cooley. Keep them both. If you can't figure out a way to use both to fullest...leave coaching.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

ppstr8, yeah, keep both, use both, something JZ couldn't grasp.....

the whole Davis didn't know the play book is a bunch of garbage, worse than the giggling, but not as bad as not letting go of a missed practice in 2008....yikes...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

"I think Portis should retire because it would be the best thing for him..."


He's owed $7.5 million.

Could he take $5 million upfront, sign not to play anywhere else in the league, and receive the remainder over time?

Is getting rid of the guy worth all that?

Well, we have a GM now.

He'll figure it all out.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Actually for the record, this team is so pisss-poor I will accept any moves that make the team watchable and competitive again. Nothing is sacred at this point.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

To be fair to JZ, it's hard to spread them out and throw downfield when the line can't block anybody. But look at the bright. If the line stayed in tact and played well we might be looking at another year of Zornaphobia.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 5, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Again:

Davis = Gates

Cooley = Clark

If you had Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates on your team would you trade either of those guys?

Not saying either Cooley or Davis is where Clark and Gates is, but they're in the mold.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

why lose depth at a position when we hardly have any depth anywhere else?

keep Cooley and Davis, they are both in their 20's and produced this year.

get rid of guys who don't produce and/or are over 30.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 5, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Awesome. On a team that's lacking talent across the board, let's argue about which of 2 guys who can actually play the game at a high level should be traded away.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Reality is you keep both TEs.

The players most likely to be traded are the restricted free agents like Campbell and/or Carlos Rogers.

With teams having more RFA because of the uncapped year. A lot teams will be trading RFA for RFA rather than getting draft pick for RFA who sign else where.

There is also going to be a lot of Salary Dumping around the league too. So who knows what names will pop up......and at what $$$PRICE$$$

It will be an interesting off-season to say the least.

Posted by: filmchis | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Reid, tell Davis not to worry. He's not playing in the Jim Zorn No Coast offense anymore.

Sidenote: If Zorn is hired in Cleveland, I'd be interested to see if Holmgren gave him play calling duties, since he was so offended when Zorn got those taken away from him.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I had/have a hard time liking Davis b/c he represented such a bone-headedly dumb move.

But the dude is beast and one of our lone bright spots, as is Cooley. Keep them both. If you can't figure out a way to use both to fullest...leave coaching.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Davis should be a RT or RG getting ready for his second full off-season, first as a starter...

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

how about just using Davis..period...regardless of the line, he went ignored until Cooley got hurt...thats on JZ....when they did use him, he played well...making ignoring FD look even WORSE....had he sucked, then JZ would have had a small amount of retribution, but he didn't, and this is one of many reasons why JZ is gone...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Actually for the record, this team is so pisss-poor I will accept any moves that make the team watchable and competitive again. Nothing is sacred at this point.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:15 PM |

Agreed no one on these team has won sh_t wich means there all expendable.

I will agree with what ever BA and Shanny decide to do since they probably know a little more then us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

can't wait anymore. can someone tell BA to announce whatever he wants to do. tomorrow will be too late for me.

Posted by: Skins2 | January 5, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

How do you know he'll quit on you? Got any examples?

Try this idea......why trade either guy?

Crazy sounding for sure, but you may actually create a mismatch on the field.

Posted by: ksquare | January 5, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

When did Davis quit, how about his first day of practice as a Redskin, when he was a no show.

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 3:05 PM | Report Abuse

That's your example? He overslept and showed up late.

You turn that into he quit?

Wow.....

Posted by: ksquare | January 5, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

If Cooley and Davis can get a little bit better on their blocking, it could be a sky is the limit scenario. Picture a 3rd and one with a Jumbo offense ;2 TE (Cooley and Davis), 1 WR who can go deep (Moss or Thomas), tailback (whoever), Full/H-back (Sellars/Yoder). Defense is stacked for a run stuff. QB then audibles to shotgun, splits Cooley and Davis out and sends Yoder/Sellars to the line to block or go out………championship!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

How about 1st and 10 with 2 WRs that can go deep and no HB/FB? Moss and Thomas both go deep, Cooley and Davis run out routes. The speedy tailback(Alridge!!) is there for the checkdown with the middle of the field wide open. Of course you need one thing to pull this off that we don't have...blocking.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 5, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

red, some things can't be measured with stats. cooley's very valuable in the locker room. good positive dude. he brings fun to working hard. he's a keeper probly the only one on the offense. and fumbling problem can be solved. he just needs to get on the ground when he's being tackled by 4/5 people.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Davis and Cooley are far more productive than the current WR2 and WR3 - one could make a case they are better than WR1 as well.

Keep them both and find a way to make them a double threat in mid-range passing.

Maybe trade Davis for an OT?

This is a rare good problem for the Redskins.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | January 5, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I think Davis will demand a trade later in his career or sooner if we keep both & the touches are 50/50... so I think one will have to eventually go. Davis has more value at this moment, if for any reason, Cooley is coming off surgery...

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

If the coach can figure out a way to utilize them and create mismatches... keep them both.

Zorn was incapable of it.

Posted by: dfbovey | January 5, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Sidenote: If Zorn is hired in Cleveland, I'd be interested to see if Holmgren gave him play calling duties, since he was so offended when Zorn got those taken away from him.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 5, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Yes, under the newly implemented League Wide "Holmgren Rule", Zorn must be given play calling duties in Cleveland.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

You can take both Davis and Cooley and line either of them up as a TE a WR or a H-Back. Why not have 2 guys who are rotating between 3 spots constantly. You can line up two guys in 9 different set ups.

TE-Cooley TE-Davis
WR-Cooley WR-Davis
TE-Cooley WR-Davis
TE-Cooley HB-Davis
HB- Cooley TE- Davis
WR-Cooley TE -Davis
WR-Cooley HB-Davis
HB-Cooley WR-Davis
HB-Cooley HB-Davis

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

keep both, no brainer....if they prove after a season that they can't coexist than you can trade one at higher value than they represent now. You are not getting equal value back, so just keep both dudes as they represent 2 slots on any list of Skins "Top 10 players with actual talent and ability"

Either one can play the slot, even some wideout in certain packages...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM

CL - Why wait? This is the best time to trade cooley...Next year he will only be a year early....The value won't get any higher....

Trade him for a starting RG or RT.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Davis and Cooley are far more productive than the current WR2 and WR3 - one could make a case they are better than WR1 as well.

_______________________________

Besides Jason Campbell (if he stays)... I think Devin Thomas will be the #1 benefactor of the Mike Shanahan offense.

Posted by: tony325 | January 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

TE's in Shanny's offense always put up numbers.

Shannon Sharpe ring a bell?? Tony Scheffler put up nice #'s while Shanny was in there.

Dont forget about Owen Daniels in Houston this year in the same style offense.

If anything Fred should be excited about Shannahan coming to town. The track record proves that TE's get alot of looks in his offense.

Posted by: DMoney28 | January 5, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I think you'd be the only one. That's an average of 9-7 -- good, but just barely. It's a decade of hoping and wishing to make the playoffs. If the Skins go the next decade with only one playoff victory, are we really any better off?
Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 5, 2010 2:58 PM


Coughlin's last 10 (.549 career):
8-8
12-4
10-6
8-8
11-5
6-10
6-10
6-10
7-9
14-2

Wade Phillips last 10 (.600 career)
11-5
9-7
13-3
2-1
8-8
11-5
10-6
7-9
9-7
1-3

Andy Reid's last 10 (.617 career)
11-5
9-6
8-8
10-6
6-10
13-3
12-4
12-4
11-5
11-5

Shanahan (.598 career which includes his time in purgatory, er Oakland). Over the last 10 years, only 4 teams have a better winning percentage than .598 - Pats, Colts, Steelers, Eagles. Only 8 have a better percentage than 9-7 (.563). I think that bodes well for being really competitive... I would be happy with a record like MS's.

Posted by: amaranthpa | January 5, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Again:

Davis = Gates

Cooley = Clark

If you had Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates on your team would you trade either of those guys?

Not saying either Cooley or Davis is where Clark and Gates is, but they're in the mold.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:16 PM

IDIOTS...ATTENTION IF THEY PLAYED ON THE SAME TEAM ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN TRADED....

....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Gun to my head right now: I take Davis over Cooley; but imagining them in the red zone at the same time is making me tingle.

BTW I really hate Jim Zorn

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 5, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

"...keep Cooley and Davis, they are both in their 20's and produced this year..."


Somebody asked earlier if the skins would go after B Marshall or draft another receiver.

Of course, you can't answer that question, but you can push the idea that two dynamic tight ends are just as good as one big fast wideout.

You can't use a safety to cover Cooley or a linebacker to cover Davis at the same time without freeing up Moss or Thomas or opening up the draw to Portis/Mason.

That's a heck of a 2nd and long or 3rd and short running option.

Keep'em both.

(But get some dudes to play right tackle and guard or none of this works.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 5, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

That's your example? He overslept and showed up late.

You turn that into he quit?

Wow.....

He didn't show up late, they had to go get him.
WOW...
First day on the job

Posted by: jmy999 | January 5, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad it is taking some time hopefully Shanny is telling Snyder all the stuff he needs to do to turn this team around.

A indoor practice facility would be nice for one, and moving training camp back to Frostburg, things are to cozy at Redskins Park.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

so you trade cooley and Davis gets hurt...now your starting TE is Todd Yoder....and ______ as his backup....good plan...

Stop with stupid trade talk...are people really that dumb...I mean seriously..you can't be that stupid....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

TE-Cooley TE-Davis
WR-Cooley WR-Davis
TE-Cooley WR-Davis
TE-Cooley HB-Davis
HB- Cooley TE- Davis
WR-Cooley TE -Davis
WR-Cooley HB-Davis
HB-Cooley WR-Davis
HB-Cooley HB-Davis

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

That is a lot to learn for a guy who giggles. He also showed up late this one time.

Can't trust him. He is more valuable on the bench.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 5, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

keep both, no brainer....if they prove after a season that they can't coexist than you can trade one at higher value than they represent now. You are not getting equal value back, so just keep both dudes as they represent 2 slots on any list of Skins "Top 10 players with actual talent and ability"

Either one can play the slot, even some wideout in certain packages...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2010 3:01 PM

CL - Why wait? This is the best time to trade cooley...Next year he will only be a year early....The value won't get any higher....

Trade him for a starting RG or RT.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Either one for a position of need, RT/RG - Davis probably has more value right now... and Cooley may be a better student in terms of picking up a new offense.

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

This from someone posting on ESPN, take it for what its worth:

RMV002808 says:Bradford is going to the redskins. His dad is a family friend and the redskins have been calling multiple times a week asking all sorts of questions. One of the more ridiculous ones was "would Sam be ok playing for a team called redskins". Bradford is a Native American. They have also been concerned with a holdout for more money. They want him to sign right away. He is happy to go 4th overall and will sign immediately. The redskins have easily called to talk to Sam 10 times the amount of other teams. He is a great kid and the Redskins would be lucky to have him.This is a forgone conclusion in my opinion.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got a list of UFAs for 2010?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Davis needs to spend the offseason at Redskins Park learning the new offense and working on his blocking. We know he can catch and Shanahan likes to throw to the TE (i.e., Shannon Sharpe). Cooley may be the TE most featured in the Sharpe role but Shanahan has used 2 TE's before (Daniel Graham usually as a blocker). If Davis gets serious about improving his blocking he and Cooley could be a heckuva dual threat because he's already a much better receiver than Graham. His blocking is not even close though.

Posted by: skinswest | January 5, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

jmy999, go hold your breath till the draft in April.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

This from someone posting on ESPN, take it for what its worth:

RMV002808 says:Bradford is going to the redskins. His dad is a family friend and the redskins have been calling multiple times a week asking all sorts of questions. One of the more ridiculous ones was "would Sam be ok playing for a team called redskins". Bradford is a Native American. They have also been concerned with a holdout for more money. They want him to sign right away. He is happy to go 4th overall and will sign immediately. The redskins have easily called to talk to Sam 10 times the amount of other teams. He is a great kid and the Redskins would be lucky to have him.This is a forgone conclusion in my opinion.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse
_________

Good find and good post by Rypien11; personally, I think nothing's a foregone conclusion at least until the February scouting combine.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | January 5, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

this wouldn't be a bad offense:

OL: up front on the OL 3 quality OL. (rabach, the other dude from buffalo, and another top OL such as a left tackle). rest stay the same.

QB: jimmy clausen or qb (backup) from another team.

WR: brandon marshall, kelly, thomas

RB: portis, ganther and a rookie

TE: cooley

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got a list of UFAs for 2010?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2010 3:32 PM |

That depends a lot on uncapped or capped year so any list is uncertain at this point.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Beans - stop hating on Yoder...JC's favorite target...

Bring back Zeron Flemmingster to back up Sleepy...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Bradford = Ty Detmer = Bust

Posted by: filmchis | January 5, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

How Dr. Z could be a Monk hater all those years is beyond me...I am guessing it had to be because Monk didn't like to talk to the media. It can't be because of his play because Monk was all man.

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC

Zimmerman used to say he couldn't vote for a guy who had 800 catches on 8 yards hooks. Do the math. 6400 yards. Monk's total was double that. Cut Jerry Rice's numbers in half and he doesn't make the Hall. Zimmerman and Gibbs didn't get along either. Zimmerman was/is an SOB, but there is no discounting his influence

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't dislike Chris Cooley. Dude has a very impressive resume and if not for playing on some crap teams he would be mentioned with Gates, Witten, and Clark.

I also like Fred Davis. I know stats don't mean a whole lot, but damn look at the "WR-TE-WR" stats from the past year. These guys are going to be valuable contributors for this team for a long time. I think Devin Thomas is poised for a MONSTER year next year -- his coming out party, maybe Kelly too.

I just don't see how you dump ANY of those guys considering they're all 2nd round picks and have shown signs of going no where but up!

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why so many people are cold to the idea of keeping both guys.

It's not like our offense is bursting with playmakers right now, and we are gonna trade away one of our biggest most consistent ones?

The Shanahans have run offenses that can use tight ends pretty effectively. Shannon Sharpe, Owen Daniels; a year ago both Tony Scheffler and Daniel graham were used effectively in Denver.

Posted by: p1funk | January 5, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

"...ATTENTION IF THEY (Clark/Gates) PLAYED ON THE SAME TEAM ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN TRADED...."

If the skins had Vincent Jackson and Legedu Nannee or Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison, yes, I'd say trade one of the tight ends.

But we don't.

And our future wide receivers are still developing players.

So use both superior tight ends in tandem until a receiver pair is established.

To quote James Brown, "You got to use what you got, to get want you want...".

And we want our tight ends to generate offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 5, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"You know what I mean?"

by Fred Davis

----------

No, Fred.

Repeat after me, or as Philip Daniels says:

Big TEAM - Little Me, not Little Team - Big ME.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Jerry Smith: Loosest TE ever.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

4th, you're missing the point, do you want Yoder as your starting TE??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else find it annoying that Davis is a name dropper and a self promoter? "Gates was like you can be good." Davis says, "I know, right." One of the interviews on COMCAST, he said that other than the tipped pass for a pick - he did his job... I like when he plays well, but he is frustrating almost as often.

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I have been an advocate for trading Cooley and keeping Davis, could we use both absolutely...I am converting to the thought...however, what is with this blog that when anything happens for this team, good or bad, the dumbest that our fanbase has to offer come out of the woodwork?

That includes you JReid...

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 5, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

How many turnovers did Davis cause this season? I wish the NFL kept track on Tips for INT for both QB Defenders and Offensive players, because I think Davis put 2 balls in the air for an INT this season.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

How many turnovers did Davis cause this season? I wish the NFL kept track on Tips for INT for both QB Defenders and Offensive players, because I think Davis put 2 balls in the air for an INT this season.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

3 picks and almost one on Sunday...

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

JReid needs a new locker room mole now that swish is in dallas.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

"Cooley is a proven pro bowl player and Davis is not. Come on, people!"

Posted by: SkinzVA73 | January 5, 2010 2:55 PM

I don't think it's a question of whether Cooley is better than Davis...I think he is. It's more a question of who has higher trade value. Since Cooley will clearly go for a higher pick and the drop off won't necessarily be a big one with Davis, and we need picks to address the O-line; it makes some sense to trade Cooley. This is particularly true if the rumors about Shannahan looking for a 1st round QB are true.

Posted by: FITS | January 5, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

JReid needs a new locker room mole now that swish is in dallas.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:43 PM


His name is Rock Cartwright, until he is cut...

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 5, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

4th, you're missing the point, do you want Yoder as your starting TE??
Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:39 PM

Exactly….I know Betts ended up getting hurt too, but it’s a good thing they didn’t trade him like all the experts up here said to do. There is a reason you keep quality depth on your roster, and even better reasons if you can figure out how to use both players effectively in congruence.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

BEan - No...but that will never happen.

EVERYONE who wants to KEEP BOTH...DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THEY PLAY THE SAME MoFo POSITION????????????

Neither are good blockers, and both are excellent pass catchers. To run a 2 TE formation offense, one needs to be a good blocker.

Alex - Chicago runs a downfield offense, not a WCO, so that video is not capatable. And we don't have capatable players. Our TEs are better pass catchers than either Clark or Olsen. But they are better blockers......

What part do y'all not get?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is injured. No one is going to trade anything worthwhile for him until they know he can play. So you can't trade him. Trading Davis would be stupid for the exact same reason.

Posted by: mack1 | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't know how that was gonna work."

by Fred Davis

----------

Fred,

This is how it works:

You shut your mouth. You do what coach tells you.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

How many turnovers did Davis cause this season? I wish the NFL kept track on Tips for INT for both QB Defenders and Offensive players, because I think Davis put 2 balls in the air for an INT this season.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:42 PM

BOTH of those were on JAson Campbell.

Too MoFoing High....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

dl, EGGZACTLY!!..trading either CC/FD takes the TE spot, from a position of strength, to a position that now needs to be addressed either via the draft, or Free Agency....2 steps back...1 step sideways...why not KEEP both guys, USE both guys, and BUILD the offensive line.....crazy, I know.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

why is this taking so long I thought this was a done deal.So what with the hold up

Posted by: joevick | January 5, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is injured. No one is going to trade anything worthwhile for him until they know he can play. So you can't trade him. Trading Davis would be stupid for the exact same reason.

Posted by: mack1

It was a broken ankle, not an amputated arm on a QB.

Nevertheless, they shouldn't trade either.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

How many turnovers did Davis cause this season? I wish the NFL kept track on Tips for INT for both QB Defenders and Offensive players, because I think Davis put 2 balls in the air for an INT this season.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:42 PM

BOTH of those were on JAson Campbell.

Too MoFoing High....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:47 PM |

Agreed he has a problem of throwing the ball high, he is lucky Moss can jump out of the gym.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is injured. No one is going to trade anything worthwhile for him until they know he can play. So you can't trade him. Trading Davis would be stupid for the exact same reason.

Posted by: mack1 | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM

Saints traded a 2nd and 5th for Shockey coming off of a leg injury.

Kinda kills your point. Sorry.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Give jr props, he is cultivating a replacement just in case.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

4th, watch your tongue there young...

Just because you're one of the opinion driven asshats up here, and REFUSE to see it any other way then you're own doesn't mean if gates and Clark were on the same team they would've traded either one.

Witten/Bennett
Olsen/Clark
Shiancoe/Kleinsasser
Scaife/Crumpler


Yeah, 4th never in the history of TEs in the NFL have they used two in the offense. Madness, I know.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 5, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

BOTH of those were on JAson Campbell.

Too MoFoing High....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

If the ball hits both your hands then catch it, they are paid to catch da ball.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

It wont matter what we want anyways...Shanny will decide. He may only want one strong passing TE and one strong blocking TE that can also catch, such as Yoder - who is a TD machine.

Or better yet, maybe he can actually force the two players to learn how to block, where as Zorn couldnt force the long one down a prostitutes mouth...

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 5, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"Davis wonders how Redskins' offense will change"
Updated 3:47 pm

Davis is still wondering

Posted by: Skins2 | January 5, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Actually, he seems like good trade bait to me. Better than Cooley, at least you'd get more for him I think.

Don't get me wrong - he was really the only stand-out player on O this season...

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 5, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

You don't suppose "unnamed team source" =

Morroco Mole???


ok, yeah, I'm bored and waiting for the next dribble of Shanny news.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 5, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

cooley is coming off off a major surgery, who knows if he will ever be 100% again, keep that in mind people.

Posted by: skinball77 | January 5, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

it takes bama red to be the voice of reason so that hopefully 4th medicates regarding the TE spot......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

trading either CC/FD takes the TE spot, from a position of strength, to a position that now needs to be addressed either via the draft, or Free Agency....2 steps back...1 step sideways...why not KEEP both guys, USE both guys, and BUILD the offensive line.....crazy, I know.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:48 PM


Think this through....Like really think...Not that smarty-a$$ thinking...

We have many needs. LT, C, RG, RT, CB, FS, SAM.

If I told you we can get a player from another team to be an IMMEDIATE starter and/or draft picks that would draft an immediate starter where we were lacking if we traded Cooooley, you wouldn't take it?


That would be crazy....Apologizes all around...Take me to the insane asylum....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

BOTH of those were on JAson Campbell.

Too MoFoing High....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

If the ball hits both your hands then catch it, they are paid to catch da ball.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

They were all high...

One was very bad and Davis was lucky to get a hand on it. The other two were above his shoulder pads but catchable. The "almost" from Sunday was high and Davis dove for it - Defender had no play on it.

The point being Davis seems for whatever reason to put the ball in the air and remember earlier (and in the preseason) put the ball on the ground. Maybe nothing but worth saying.

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Let opposing defensive coordinators figure out how to defend both Cooley and Davis...I'd only trade one if someone gave me an absolutely silly deal. Unfortunately, Vinny Cerrato is no longer employed in the NFL...

Posted by: mattylight | January 5, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Davis said he was taken aback when the Redskins drafted him, knowing they already had a pro-bowl tight end in the stable.

Davis is displaying a USC prima-donna, show me the money mentality (i.e Chad Johnson, Keyshawn Johnson.)

Fred may or may not turn out to be a pro-bowl tight end, but given the choice between he and Cooley, I'll take the latter.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

The Fred Davis/Chris Cooley issue is playing out against an interesting background.

2009 was the most productive year for tight ends across the league that I can remember.

Vernon Davis, Dallas Clark and Visante Shiancoe all had double digit TDs. Greg Olsen (Chi) and Antonio Gates had 8 TDs. Also with 8 TDs, celek, jut 1 less receiving TD than desean jax.

Fred Davis had 6 TDs in 1/2 a season.

Owen Daniels was perhaps the best TE in football until he got hurt.

Heath and Zack Miller both had good receiving seasons. The Saints TE's combined for more yards than any of their WRs other than Colston.

The premiere guys, witten and Gonzales, were solid yet again.


The list of TEs having a very good year in 2009 (and often their best year) is quite long.

Offenses adapt to what defenses give them. In 2009, defenses didn't focus on stopping TE's, and the results were banner years for guys at that position.

Defenses usually require time to adapt ... which makes the Cooley/Davis issue even more important

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

4th, you're making a trade, that only creates another need...

trade davis/cooley, and now TE is a need spot....so you got better at G with the trade, but worsened TE...so, again, 2 steps back, 1 step back....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

4th, if we could get a bona fide starter for the OL, such LT, C, RG or RT for Cooley, straight up no Cooley and the next 3 years first round picks, etc...I would take that. I would have to think about it, but I would take it, if it meant not giving up any draft picks and getting a starting ASAP caliber player.

One of the reason why, cuz I think, push come to shove, if Kelly busts, he could bulk up and be a TE.

Alot of IFs there though...

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 5, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

If I could trade me one Fred Davis for a stout offensive lineman...

See ya, Fred!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

EVERYONE who wants to KEEP BOTH...DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THEY PLAY THE SAME MoFo POSITION????????????
Neither are good blockers, and both are excellent pass catchers. To run a 2 TE formation offense, one needs to be a good blocker.
Alex - Chicago runs a downfield offense, not a WCO, so that video is not capatable. And we don't have capatable players. Our TEs are better pass catchers than either Clark or Olsen. But they are better blockers......
What part do y'all not get?
Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM

Just because you have 2 good players at the same position does not mean you automatically trade one of them. What don’t you understand about the need for quality depth? It’s not like they are holding onto 2 awesome kickers, where one guy isn’t needed and is not at any sort of risk of injury.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

The list of TEs having a very good year in 2009 (and often their best year) is quite long.

Offenses adapt to what defenses give them. In 2009, defenses didn't focus on stopping TE's, and the results were banner years for guys at that position.

Defenses usually require time to adapt ... which makes the Cooley/Davis issue even more important

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2010 3:55 PM


I really hope our offense starts to adapt, cuz that is something that never happened under Zorn or Gibbs 2.0, same with the D though.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 5, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Reds...I'm in crazy mode...apologies ahead of time...

Witten/Bennett

Sleepy wants waaaay more time than Bennet gets, who hardly sees the field. Witten is a better blocker than our guys.

Olsen/Clark

Our guys are better pass catchers than both, but both of their guys are better blockers.

Shiancoe/Kleinsasser

Kleinsasser is a converted fullback with excellent blocking skills and Shaincoe is good overall (not great on either catching/blocking).


Scaife/Crumpler

Both are good overall TEs. Crumpler is a better pass catcher, but is consistently over weight. Both are better blockers than our guys.


THE COMMON THEME?

Their combos have ATLEAST one good blocker amongst the two. Us? Not so much. Cooley can't block, and Sleepy has to learn.

Feel free to disagree with my assesment of these TEs, but I would say you would say I am pretty accurate in assesing them...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Think this through....Like really think...Not that smarty-a$$ thinking...

We have many needs. LT, C, RG, RT, CB, FS, SAM.

If I told you we can get a player from another team to be an IMMEDIATE starter and/or draft picks that would draft an immediate starter where we were lacking if we traded Cooooley, you wouldn't take it?


That would be crazy....Apologizes all around...Take me to the insane asylum....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

4th, that's one way of doing things for sure -- but if you made that move then you're in for the quick fix, instead of patiently building a team. We can get plenty of quality starters on the team thru the draft and FA over time without having to sacrifice the good players we have right now. It might take a little longer to rebuild, but it would be worth it to have both Davis and Cooley on the field at the same time. IMO, the Skins are a few years away anyway. We need more talent, so why trade away proven players we already have?

Posted by: mattylight | January 5, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Redskins | Shanahan to be named head coach
Comment (0)
Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:59:04 -0800

ESPNews reports the Washington Redskins are expected to name Mike Shanahan as their next head coach in a matter of hours.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | January 5, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

We're fine with Cooley and Yoder at TE.

Immediate needs are offensive lineman and help in our secondary.

You gotta give up something of value in order to get something good in return.

Fred Davis is VERY tradeable.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

4th's been hitting the Vegemite again...

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Isn't a starting guard or tackle a bigger need than a 2nd or backup TE? I'd like to keep both but the OL is and should be the first priority to get corrected.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | January 5, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I think we need the 5 fat guys that put a hand in the ground, and play in front of the quarterback. I am pretty sure this is more important than which one of our 2 awesome TE's we should trade. Why did we hire BA, there are like 100 GM's on this blog. Get some mean fat dudes on the line, and take it from there.

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 5, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

It’s not like they are holding onto 2 awesome kickers, where one guy isn’t needed and is not at any sort of risk of injury.


Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 3:59 PM

My last point on this and my case is closed.

I am saying exactly we have to Great FG kickers where only one can geto n the field. We need a Robert Royal/Flemmister type all around TE to complement the other.

Cooley may be here one more year, but no way they co-exisit after 2010. You see how Sleepy gets when he isn't involved in the game....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"You gotta give up something of value in order to get something good in return"

-Chia

We have a 1st round pick this year
We have a 2nd round pick this year
We have an uncapped year of FA
We have the 2011, 2012, 2013, etc. drafts...

We don't need to give up anything...we can rebuild without giving up our good players. Most teams build AROUND their good players, not trade them away...unless they are dumping salary, which we certainly will never be doing.

Posted by: mattylight | January 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I would say Cooley is a average blocker.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

We're fine with Cooley and Yoder at TE.

Immediate needs are offensive lineman and help in our secondary.

You gotta give up something of value in order to get something good in return.

Fred Davis is VERY tradeable.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

This has been 4th's point...

Although he has offered Cooley and I think Davis more immediate trade value.

Plus, Cooley seems alittle smarter and with all things equal - keep the guy that will pick up the new offense faster.

Keeping both is a luxury that only a team with no needs can afford.

Posted by: ssh1549 | January 5, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Fred,

This is how it works:

You shut your mouth. You do what coach tells you.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse
---------------------------
That's what he did, tough guy. Despite being unnecessarily benched.

I'd love to see how chia pet would address Freddy in person. Very respectful, I'd imagine.

Posted by: AdamCr | January 5, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Cooley may be here one more year, but no way they co-exisit after 2010. You see how Sleepy gets when he isn't involved in the game....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:06 PM

----------

So trade him.

Get as much as you can for him NOW.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Aldridge....Aldridge..for cripes sake..he's almost 28. wonder why he's never been in any backfield except for pre-season..BONG..he's not that good..all I hear is how fast he is.. there is plenty of 40 yd. burners who can't make it in the NFL

Posted by: carlhimmelright | January 5, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Cooley may be here one more year, but no way they co-exisit after 2010. You see how Sleepy gets when he isn't involved in the game....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

How did Davis "get" when he wasn't being used for the first 24 games of his career?

Was he a trouble maker at USC? He wasn't the focal point of that offense.

Please share your sage wisdom 4th......

Posted by: ksquare | January 5, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Trust me, AdamCr...

Sleepy has already heard much worse from guys on his own team, like Joe Bugel.

Zorn may not have been a tough guy, but Shanny is.

and Fred Davis would benefit from additional attitude adjustment.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 5, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I am saying exactly we have to Great FG kickers where only one can geto n the field. We need a Robert Royal/Flemmister type all around TE to complement the other.
Cooley may be here one more year, but no way they co-exisit after 2010. You see how Sleepy gets when he isn't involved in the game....
Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:06 PM

No, it is NOT like having to FG kickers. Two, even three TE’s can be on the field at the same time. Most of the “pundits” seem to think that Cooley and Davis on the field at the same time poses great possibilities for the offense. I guess the pundits just don’t have the 3rd eye that knows all as far as the future is concerned. They can always work on improving their blocking skills too.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 5, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how Santanna Moss will be used in the Redskins offense. Personally, I think he'll be Eddie Royal (from Shanny's last season not McDaniels lack of using him) style next year. Meaning I think you see a lot of 3 wide, 1 TE, 1 RB sets with Moss in the slot getting more seems, crossing patterns and opportunities to run after the catch. Now if we could just find a QB who doesn't throw it high to him all the time.......

Personally, I don't want to trade either Cooley or Davis. Tight ends historically have been heavily used in Shanny's system and it is a rough position having two good ones is important, however, Todd Yoder is pretty dang good himself so if they feel like they can get not just good value but a profit on trading one of them (i.e.- a 1st rounder or a starting tackle anything less no thanks) then I'm ok with having Yoder as the backup. Todd has more than proven he's both a capable blocker and receiver.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

K - Sleepy needed a game or 2 as a starter before his greatness shined. He had to stay at Redskins Park during Thanksgiving to 'learn' the offense. HE was fumbling and dropping passes when he 1st got in. After that, he was nothing short of Great.

I never said he was troublemaker. He's a good person....probably has ADD. I know because I do and he shows the signs. You just have to know how to approach these dudes. Like keeping them motivated by playing, especially when you know you have the skills to sh!t on Chris Cooooley, though he would never say that...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I think we've had such a dumb, short-sighted, and incompetent Front Office for so long that we Redskins fans are suffering from a sort of football version of the Stockholm Syndrome. We've had no depth at any position for so many years that we don't know what to think when we do. Keeping them both is a good idea b/c a smart OC can utilize them both and, as we saw this year, one of them can go down in an instant. Depth is a good thing people...not a problem.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 5, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS:

New Head Coach is named...it's Kurt Onalfo!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Only problem with making the "trade Cooley/Davis" claim is that you're assuming you can get a 'bona fide' starter at another position for one of them. That's hardly a given, even if you get a decent draft pick in return.

Now, let's say we can trade one of them for...Brandon Marshall (malcontent, wants out, likely won't resign with Denver following his contract anyway) -- then you would absolutely do it.

But if you're offering them up for a run-of-the-mill starter along the offensive line (say a Levi Jones/Jeremy Bridges type player, both of whom have bona fide starting experience) there's no shot in hell you pull the trigger there, even with our line as it stands.

It's all about what you get in return. It's likely you won't get value, but if you do...

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Chia, what besides missing a practice in 2008 and jreid claiming he giggled, do you have against Davis?

Zorn discredited the kid until bingo caller turned him into one of the most productive TEs in the league the second half of the season. He's said not much more than " I just need to work hard and get better" yet he's got an attitude? How did you feel about CC47s attitude when he went on the radio talking about our odd playcalling setup?

Posted by: AdamCr | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Oh...that's for DC United.

Nevermind.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Some of the TE's having good seasons:

Gates, career best in yds
Clark, career best in yds
witten, 2nd best season in yds
V Davis, best in yds/TDs
Winslow, 2nd best in yds, tied for best in TDs
Z Miller, best in yds
H Miller, best in yds
Olsen, best in yds/TDs
Heap, 2nd best season in TDs

celek and Fred Davis both had breakout years. Several teams had a combo of TEs net out big, including the Skins, Packers and Saints.

Daniels of the Texans had 500+ yards and 5 TDs in 1/2 a season.

Tight ends are more valuable now than they have been in a long time.

Lastly -- Jerry Smith's name came up. Smith held the record for TD catches by a tight end until 2002 -- with 60. Shannon Sharpe, considered a premier TE, caught 62 TDs in his career -- less than 5 per year.

So when you have multiple TEs catching double digit TDs and a bunch more in the 6-8 TD range, its worth noticing

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Well, CP is good at blocking and he can catch - but he can't get through the line anymore.

Convert him to TE where he can block and send him out on pass patterns - use him sometimes as a runner in a toss up pass or run down to catch teams off guard.

Unload Davis or Cooley for a draft pick for an offensive lineman.

If we must eat Portis' salary, who says we have to keep him as a running back? He blocks better than some of the speedier backs and let him get a taste of Mike Sellers' job! How ironic.

Posted by: laserwizard | January 5, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I would say Cooley is a average blocker.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

He also played Hback so he can lead block and pass protect. Picture a Mike Sellers that can actually catch a pass. They don't have to play the same position. Davis is pretty athletic for a TE and more resembles a WR. I don't see the big deal using him more in a role of a second or third WR and Cooley in an HB role. The real fun is in combining their flexibility.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 5, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Stop with stupid trade talk...are people really that dumb...I mean seriously..you can't be that stupid....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 5, 2010 3:29 PM

Welcome to the blog, first time poster. Since you're new, let me tell you what I've learned after posting for a few years up here: Yes, most of us are really that dumb, stupid, or whatever you want to call us. In fact, we're so stupid we don't even realize we're stupid.

Posted by: League-Source | January 5, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: League-Source | January 5, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Our players suck. Why would another team trade for them? You can draft younger, cheaper players compared to what we have.

Posted by: peterandmeredith | January 5, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Link don't work beepity beep beep!!

Posted by: jiza32 | January 5, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Link don't work beepity beep beep!!

Posted by: jiza32 | January 5, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

davis has more strength and speed than cooley who is coming off an injury if washington can get a 2 and 5 pick for him I would trade him be that will not happen and no team in their right mind would trade a good young RT for a tight end so whoever the coach is had better learn how to utilize both of them. yoder is 32yrs it is possible washington drafts a low round good blocking TE as the number 3 TE for less money.

Posted by: wathu19 | January 5, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is the face of the Redskins. He is the most popular player on the team. He is damn good at what he does. Remember when we had a pretty good player by the name of Lavar Arrington who at the time was the face of the Redskins and the most popular player on the team. For God sakes, we ran him out of town just because a coach wanted to prove that he was bigger than the player. We have been going down hill since that time. You don't get rid of Cooley. Would be a terribly stupid thing to do.

Posted by: diamond_jim | January 5, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis is gonna fit just fine in Shanny's offense - as long as he stops trying to hurdle DB's.

Hopefully Noel Devine declares for the draft cause he runs like the prototypical Shanahan one cut down-hill RB.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 5, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

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