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Posted at 6:00 AM ET, 11/30/2010

Redskins' failure to produce turnovers proves costly vs. Vikings

By Jason Reid

Minnesota quarterback Brett Farve leads the NFL with 17 interceptions, but Favre had no turnovers in Sunday's 17-13 victory against Washington at FedEx Field.

"He just did a good job of protecting the football," cornerback Carlos Rogers said of the future Hall of Famer. "You know he's gonna take some chances sometimes, but he didn't make a lot of those [dangerous] throws."

The Redskins are last in the league in total defense, but they are among the NFL leaders with 21 turnovers (10 interceptions, 11 fumble recoveries). Their failure to produce any turnovers against the Vikings was a major factor in the loss.

"We had maybe one or two chances," Coach Mike Shanahan said. "I thought they did a good job of not making mistakes. That's what you have to do to win.

"That's why we stress turnovers all the time, as well as they do. The difference between this year and last year for them [the Vikings] has been turnovers."

The New York Giants play host to the Redskins this week at New Meadowlands Stadium, and Giants quarterback Eli Manning is second in the league with 16 interceptions. Manning also is tied for the NFL lead with 23 touchdown passes.

This season, the seventh-year player has had at least three interceptions in three games, and at least two in six games. Obviously, the Redskins could benefit from getting a few more takeaways against their NFC East rival.

"Like we've talked about, [producing more turnovers] definitely been a point of emphasis for us this year, and we feel like we've done a better job as a defense," outside linebacker Lorenzo Alexander said. "For whatever reason, we just didn't get any [against Minnesota].

"But I think guys are definitely focused on getting back on track. We know how important it is to what we're trying to do out there."

By Jason Reid  | November 30, 2010; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  Carlos Rogers, Lorenzo Alexander, Mike Shanahan  
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Next: Redskins' most viable path to playoffs is winning NFC East

Comments

What We’ve Learned, 11/30/10

By John Keim


1. Cornerback Phillip Buchanon has been a good pickup » He’s showing that he is good as a No. 3 corner and can do well when pushed into the starting lineup. He was criticized in Houston for his coverage skills last season, but Buchanon has done an excellent job in both man and zone coverages. Buchanon leads the Redskins with 13 passes defensed and made two nice plays Sunday. Buchanon also has forced two fumbles, tied with London Fletcher for the team-high.

2. The running game would have to lead any sort of playoff run, which makes any sort of playoff run unlikely » The Redskins just aren’t equipped to have a consistent ground game, not with a line that isn’t great and with backs who are inexperienced. Sunday, James Davis stutter-stepped to some holes, looking indecisive on where he should cut. It’s hard for a guy who hasn’t played in a while to gain rhythm that fast. Or he would dodge defenders in the backfield. Ryan Torain’s return would help, but durability questions remain. They need to have enough of an attack to remain committed; otherwise, teams won’t bite on the play-action or bootlegs — as Minnesota did not.

3. The inability of the defensive line in the 3-4 front to get any sort of push made it tougher to stop the run Sunday » Their primary job is to keep the linebackers clean to make plays. But Minnesota succeeded in part because the linemen could get to the linebackers. It’s why Albert Haynesworth’s inability to adapt to a 3-4 has set this defense back. They have try-hard guys up front, but they also need one who scares a line. It’s a big reason why Minnesota could still run well with Toby Gerhart instead of Adrian Peterson.

4. The Redskins will have a decision to make after the season regarding right tackle Jammal Brown » At best he’s shown that he can be serviceable. The problem Brown faces is that his health — and specifically his hip — likely will remain an issue. Brown struggles to bend his knees enough, getting in trouble because he bends more at the hip. And his mobility is restricted. He’s unrestricted after this season.


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/redskins/2010/11/what-we-ve-learned-113010#ixzz16lKP1CIm

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 6:20 AM | Report abuse

I was wondering about Jammal Brown. It looks like most of the moves that Allen has made to shore up the line -- Hicks, Lichtensteiger, and Brown -- have failed. I'm not sure they could have done much more given the limited free agents on the market last year, but this didn't work.

At RB they could have gotten Westbrook but went with Parker. That doesn't look good. They wiffed on a couple of LB's they could have brought in.

Allen did a good job getting more picks and I thought he used them well. Hope some of those guys pan out, but if they don't it's hard to see that Allen's much of an upgrade over Cerrato.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 6:29 AM | Report abuse

I was wondering about Jammal Brown. It looks like most of the moves that Allen has made to shore up the line -- Hicks, Lichtensteiger, and Brown -- have failed. I'm not sure they could have done much more given the limited free agents on the market last year, but this didn't work.

At RB they could have gotten Westbrook but went with Parker. That doesn't look good. They wiffed on a couple of LB's they could have brought in.

Allen did a good job getting more picks and I thought he used them well. Hope some of those guys pan out, but if they don't it's hard to see that Allen's much of an upgrade over Cerrato.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 6:29 AM |
------

allen is better than cerrato in terms of salary cap and contract terms obviously.

the jbrown and dmcnabb trades will go down as mistakes.

a couple picks made thru the 2010 draft look decent.

now, there's been more coaching blunders than I thought there would be with shanahan, but we'll see if that's just getting back in the grove and getting everyone on the same page.

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 6:44 AM | Report abuse

beep, to be fair, Jammal Brown was the only one intended to be a starter. Hicks is a depth guy they brought in to compete at RG and NOBODY had Lichtensteiger as a starter. I'd share your concern if those guys were billed as legit starters...they weren't.

As for Westbrook, I was screaming at the top of my lungs for the Skins to make a legit run at him but if it was a case of money, I can live with that.

Nobody thought Allen was gonna be Pioli 2.0, but he's a definite upgrade over Vinny...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 6:50 AM | Report abuse

The only thing turnovers will do is provide NY with more opportunities to step on Casey Rabach's chest on their way to slamming McNabb.

This season was over before it began, just like the last two years were. O Line. O Line. O Line.

There's a reason The Hogs were/are lionized around here. Trade everybody with value for O Linemen and we'll see a different team... One that consistently wins.

It doesn't take a genius. It's actually pretty simple.

I expect NY to beat the stuffing out of us, like they have the last few years. If Detroit beat up McNabb, NY will probably end his season. I don't like it, but that's the reality.

Run the ball? Not very likely.

Make sure you have back up plans this Sunday. I got a feeling this one's gonna be one-sided and ugly.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 30, 2010 6:53 AM | Report abuse


Nobody thought Allen was gonna be Pioli 2.0, but he's a definite upgrade over Vinny...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 6:50 AM |

not true brown, when shanahan and allen were hired we won the SB on this here board. your paintings are very colorful, but the colors run

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 6:56 AM | Report abuse

not true brown, when shanahan and allen were hired we won the SB on this here board. your paintings are very colorful, but the colors run

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 6:56 AM

Don't confuse finally having a CHANCE at a SB as being likely to win a SB. Anyone who thought Allen was anything more than a merely competent GM was fooling themselves. He had a mixed bag of results in Tampa and wasn't gonna fix this thing overnight. The only reason we have hope he could help us to a SB is because Mickey Loomis won a SB in NO...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 7:09 AM | Report abuse


Anyone who thought Allen was anything more than a merely competent GM was fooling themselves.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 7:09 AM |

agree on that one brown.

on another note, I realize that santana moss is a short receiver, but he jumps to catch every ball thrown to him. this is a bad habit for a receiver and leads to drops and defenders being able to catch the receiver. if you have to leap to catch a ball that's one thing, but moss should be running thru the catch, something the coaches have neglected to address

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood

Yesterday, I posted a rant regarding the failings of the redskin defense, and you took umbrage complaining that my posts about the D were, to sum up, off-base.

You complained that I was caught up in the skins' 32nd league-wde ranking.

But twice today, you post the following from John Kiem:

3. The inability of the defensive line in the 3-4 front to get any sort of push made it tougher to stop the run Sunday... It’s a big reason why Minnesota could still run well with Toby Gerhart instead of Adrian Peterson.


Wazzup wid dat?

Kiem's line about Gerhart succeeding against our defense sounds familiar:

The vikes' offense has been inept all season, but mustered two field length scoring drives where it gashed the redskin defense for chunks of yardage or pounded a kid named Gerhart at it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 29, 2010 7:14 AM


Shouldn't you be complaining about Kiem's analysis of the redskin defense much in the same way you did about mine a day earlier?

Be consistent or be gone.

And by the way, let me be arrogant and point out that I beat Kiem to the punch.

And my chest-thumping will end there.

And regarding the quality of my posts, I plan to keep on punching.

But I'll never stop being arrogant.

Or right.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I was wondering about Jammal Brown. It looks like most of the moves that Allen has made to shore up the line -- Hicks, Lichtensteiger, and Brown -- have failed.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 6:29 AM |

When offensive line is the #1 priority you have get it right more than 25% of the time. The line problems remain. Other problems need fixing this offseason as well. We're falling behind.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 30, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Moe, I just post the stuff...that's not me agreeing with it verbatim per se, just sharing what I read from a REAL Redskins Insider. I love Keim's stuff and I agree with most of it, not all of it. Saying that "Minnesota could still run well with Toby Gerhart" is a bit misleading when you see he only got 3.5 yards per carry.

Don't misinterpret my stance on the Skins defense...the D could (and probably should)have done better in that game. I never said they don't deserve a share of the blame because in a team sport you win as a team and lose as a team. But I think it's insanse to lay this loss at their feet when the other two units left 11 points out on the field. If your defense holds the opponent to 17 points (including holding the Vikes to a FG after turning the ball over inside your own 10 yard line), you should win. Period.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

beep-beep

It looks like most of the moves that Allen has made to shore up the line -- Hicks, Lichtensteiger, and Brown -- have failed.


And it's not just the offensive line where things haven't worked out either.

Have Maake Kemoteau, Adam Carriker, and using AH as a nose guard all worked out as planned?

I'd say, 'No.'

Our defensive line gets pushed back and our offensive line gets pushed forwards.

FA should be about adding a receiver, and real outside linebacker, a free safety, and depth players.

But the 2011 Draft as to be a dull affair where linemen on both sides of the ball are added.


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

The stark reality is they intend to keep the 3-4 they need to revamp many positions. Either they go back to 4-3 or overhaul. On the other side of the ball its simple as getting an o-line in place and not shuffling like musical chairs like Shanny has done. But again in reality the o-line needs an overhaul also. Painful each and every year.

Posted by: joeboggs | November 30, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

Saying that "Minnesota could still run well with Toby Gerhart" is a bit misleading when you see he only got 3.5 yards per carry.


Son,

It's not the 3.5 average, but that the vikes were able to use him effectively to sustain a long drive at the start of the third quarter.

We needed our D get a stop so our offense could get the ball back.

And it didn't.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 8:12 AM | Report abuse

I was wondering about Jammal Brown. It looks like most of the moves that Allen has made to shore up the line -- Hicks, Lichtensteiger, and Brown -- have failed.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 6:29 AM |

In all fairness to Brown, he was off for a full year and had major surgery. I really think a full offseason of recovery and good training camp will do him a lot of good and I expect him to be better next year. Knowing his problems hopefully we can sign him to a smaller, short term contract to just give him a chance. Hicks would make a decent backup cause he can play both G and T, he never should have been a starter this year. I have no defense for Lick-my-sh*tter, dude sucks and I expect 2 new starters at G next year.

Posted by: monk811 | November 30, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Moe, then your stance is the defense gave up that ONE scoring drive and THAT'S what lost the game? Really? You'll excuse me if I pay attention to the REST of the game as well...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Are we the slowest, oldest, non-athletic team there is in the league? Someone answer this?

Posted by: joeboggs | November 30, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

But the 2011 Draft as to be a dull affair where linemen on both sides of the ball are added.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

I don't consider that dull. I would love for us to pick up a big ass NT and a zoneblocking G in the draft, that's 2 of our 3 biggest needs anyway, WR being the other.

Posted by: monk811 | November 30, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, in Miami...

James and His Coach Deny a Rift

MIAMI — LeBron James and Miami Heat Coach Erik Spoelstra might have literally clashed — biceps to shoulder, presumably accidentally — but they say they are not otherwise at odds.

James and Spoelstra insisted on Monday that their relationship was fine despite their much-analyzed collision last Saturday during the Heat’s loss to Dallas and an ESPN report indicating that James and other players are frustrated with Spoelstra.


So much for that Wade-LeBron-Bosh jugga-NOT!

We know it's early, but the folks in Cleveland and league-wide LeBron Hatahs might get the last laugh if the Three Miami Amigos fail to deliver on the ring they thought they could win just be being together.

Three guys don't make a team.

Somehow, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh forgot that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

got a bad feeling about this coming weekend's game against NY...the redskins don't have the horses....I'd like to be optimistic that Kyle/Mike would come up with a game plan of some type, but its been 11 weeks of just the opposite, so I don't hold out much hope...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

LMAO LMAO STILL CAN't STOP LAUGHING LOL LOL mlb SUCKS!!!! BASEBALL IS ALMOST DEAD THE GREAT NFL SHALL KILL IT IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS LMAO LMAO BASEBALL MAKING A COMEBACK LOL  AINT NO SHOT IN HELL THAT MLB EVER BEATS THE NFL AGAIN!!!! Baseball is one of the most boring pos sports ever created hence why dub bush loves it lmao lmao !!!!!! Not that was an idiotic comment lmao  baseball will never recover the youth of this country HATES IT!!! THE MLB WILL BE AND DESERVES TO BE DEAD IN THE NEXT 10 to 20 years!!!  A REAL SPORT  CALled NFL FOOTBALL   ,IT SLIT  THE MLB's throat THIS YEAR AND IT SHALL DIE!!  The nfl won't be locked out the owners are way too smart to lose money!! Even if it does THE NFL WILL STILL PLAY WITH SCABS AND STILL KICK THAT POS SPORT MLB's ASS!!!!  Lockout years are always good for Redskins fans we always end up winning the Super Bowl those years!!!!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | November 30, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

I don't think it's just Allen picking these guys -- it's probably not even mostly Allen. This is Mike Shanahan's team.

Anway, we need Pioli 2.0. What is the path to Pioli 2.0?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 30, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

got a bad feeling about this coming weekend's game against NY...the redskins don't have the horses....I'd like to be optimistic that Kyle/Mike would come up with a game plan of some type, but its been 11 weeks of just the opposite, so I don't hold out much hope...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 8:26 AM


Weren't many of us saying the same thing going into the Titans game? Weren't Moss and Johnson supposed to run laps up and down the field on this defense? Just sayin'...

Fact of the matter is, we don't know what team is gonna show up. They might get blown out, they might keep it close. They're on the road (where they seem to play better), so they may even mess around and win. Trying to predict the 2010 Redskins is like pissin' in the wind...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

THE MLB WILL BE AND DESERVES TO BE DEAD IN THE NEXT 10 to 20 years!!!

I understand your complaints.

Thing is, baseball fans like me wonder just what sport we'll obsess over from March to August when there's no "King Football" to salivate over.

Trust me, the verbal, mental, and rhetorical self-gratification that goes on during and about the pro football offseason is just as dull as the baseball games you whine about.

Plus, baseball fans say the competition from their perspective is between the teams that make it's league, not with pro football.

We know football is king.

But we also know that there's more to the sports' universe than watching it obsessively 24-7.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

It's the sky is falling Tuesday. Every Tuesday after a loss it's the same thing.

Once again, this is a terribly flawed roster that rolls out the worst OL and DL every week. That's where football games are won and why we lose.

Considering the limited picks and weak FA, all you could hope for is stop gaps. That's what we have, I'd look for a more consistently competitive team next year and then a playoff caliber team the following.

Looking at this roster, we should be ecstatic with 5-6.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 30, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

baseball could make itself relevant again with ONE rule change:

put the pitcher on a 10-15 second pitch clock

i suppose this would have to be accompanied by an associated rule preventing batters from calling "time out" and stepping out of the box so often.

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 30, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

brown, anyone with half a brain knew that RMoss would be a non factor....he's long since stopped trying/caring...regardless, I think the giants hand us our hats this weekend...Shanny wont sit rabach, and the giants will run right over him...I don't have the confidence in Kyle to come up with a game plan to slow the rush either...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Moe, I just post the stuff...that's not me agreeing with it verbatim per se, just sharing what I read from a REAL Redskins Insider.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:05 AM

I don't think that Keim is a Redskins Insider, real or otherwise. I see him as an astute analyst -- someone who watches the game and takes it apart to separate the sh1t from the Shinola. And, I think he's very good at this -- the Post doesn't have anyone on its staff who even tries this. All they do is attend press conferences, go to the games, and report -- low level stuff that even Cork could do (you know where to send your resume, Cork).

But an insider would be someone who could penetrate the organization and tell us, for example, how Capers is playing, what they really think about McNabb, whether they'll bring someone up from the practice squad, what they really think about the two blocks in the back on Sunday, etc.

Jasno used to be able to do some of this, but Shanahan's Redskins don't seem to have been penetrated by anyone. All the insiders are insiders, not reporters.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse

baseball could make itself relevant again with ONE rule change


Excuse, me, but baseball is very relevant.

A MLB game and NFL game run just about the same time: 3 hours.

Football entices as it's a sport designed for television, which is why after each play, there are about 2-3 replays to make fans think there's more action than there really is.

The NFL let's tv network control its product is way the MLB prefers not to.

Baseball is a game you go to see live as you can either ignore the game or watch it develop.

Football, on the other hand, is designed for short attention span types who don't notice the thousand commercials, endless stoppages of play for Official reviews, and idiotic, chummy announcers who are always right just after a play happens.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

diesel, lets think about next year for a moment, and in no short order the team needs at least the following:

2-wr, especially if Moss walks
2-g
1-c
1-nt
1-de
2 olb
2 rb, torain is way too injury prone to be counted on on a regular basis..

with limited picks in the upcoming draft, is looking at another 6-8 win season a possibility.....I'd say that it is...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Football, on the other hand, is designed for short attention span types who don't notice the thousand commercials...

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2010 9:01 AM

You're making this stuff up, Moe. There are no commercials in football. What was your point, again?

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

It's the sky is falling Tuesday. Every Tuesday after a loss it's the same thing.

Once again, this is a terribly flawed roster that rolls out the worst OL and DL every week. That's where football games are won and why we lose.

Considering the limited picks and weak FA, all you could hope for is stop gaps. That's what we have, I'd look for a more consistently competitive team next year and then a playoff caliber team the following.

Looking at this roster, we should be ecstatic with 5-6.


Posted by: Diesel44 | November 30, 2010 8:50 AM


A-friggin'-men.

The Skins are who we thought they were. Nothing less, nothing more...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I don't think it's just Allen picking these guys -- it's probably not even mostly Allen. This is Mike Shanahan's team.

Anway, we need Pioli 2.0. What is the path to Pioli 2.0?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 30, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse
-----------------------------

It starts by dealing with Pioli 1.0: a 2009 club which produced a 4-12 club that still beat our 4-12 club. It takes time - even for your man crush - to work his magic.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 30, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

bean- there is a long shopping list of needs and IMO they checked off a few but are going to need 2 years of solid FA signings and draft picks.

This is what they accomplished this year.
KR/PR- BB
3rd WR- AA
LT- TW
QB?
3rd RB- KW, we'll never be able to count on RT staying healthy
3rd CB- PB

I'd add
FS
another 3-4 DE
probably a RT
ILB
and more OL/DL depth

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 30, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Meant to say..

I'd add this to your LIST OF NEEDS

FS- KM is at best a backup
another 3-4 DE
probably a RT
ILB
and more OL/DL depth

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 30, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

though the game is meaningless for the most part this weekend, i would really like to see the Skins come out and play tough against the giants

this is a rivalry that has lost its luster the last few years, we just dont beat or compete with the giants lately

I'll be there w/ my burgundy ST21, but i really dont think it's going to matter, the giants will prolly ruin us

it's funny listening to giants fans whine and complain about how they suck, im like really? Yall have no f-in idea

Posted by: retroskins14 | November 30, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

and more OL/DL depth

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 30, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse
---------------------

Priorities are as follows:

1. RB
2. C
3. WR
4. DT/NT
5. ILB

The truth is an all-pro line would look like crap with this group of backers and zero running game. That said, Rabac is definitely the weak link, and needs to be replaced, stat. We don't need a #2 receiver. We need a big guy who can catch a slant without getting leveled by a 4 foot tall garden statue. Finally, we need a true NT and ILB depth because Fletcher isn't getting any younger.

Championship!

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 30, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Moe, then your stance is the defense gave up that ONE scoring drive and THAT'S what lost the game? Really? You'll excuse me if I pay attention to the REST of the game as well...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:19 AM

The rest of the game?

How about the 4th quarter? Over 6 minutes left, still a one score game and the Vikings get the ball and we NEVER see it again?

How did they do this? By running Gerhart up the middle on us for six minutes. Looked like the second coming of John Riggins - except he was wearing purple.

No big mystery here, our D sucks and it starts at the line. Little wonder why we are ranked dead last.

Is it all the D's fault? No? We definitely defined the concept of team loss against the Vikes, but getting the ball back in the final six minutes of a one score game sits square on the D. Slice it up any way you want.

Posted by: edvar | November 30, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

matt, get some horses up front, and you don't need a top notch rb...get 2 guards, and a center, and you'll be able to get good productivity out of KWill/RTorian, and JDavis....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Fletcher isn't getting any younger.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 30, 2010 9:28 AM

This is a chronic problem in the NFL -- NONE of the players gets younger. Some of our posters up here seem to get younger, but not the players.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 30, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse


Trying to predict the 2010 Redskins is like pissin' in the wind...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 8:38 AM |

are you kidding me, they suck brownwood.

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

How about the 4th quarter? Over 6 minutes left, still a one score game and the Vikings get the ball and we NEVER see it again?

How did they do this? By running Gerhart up the middle on us for six minutes. Looked like the second coming of John Riggins - except he was wearing purple.

No big mystery here, our D sucks and it starts at the line. Little wonder why we are ranked dead last.

Is it all the D's fault? No? We definitely defined the concept of team loss against the Vikes, but getting the ball back in the final six minutes of a one score game sits square on the D. Slice it up any way you want.

Posted by: edvar | November 30, 2010 9:33 AM

Again...I never said the D is without fault or a share of the blame for the loss. But out of the 3 units, they didn't blow a gimme TD or block in the back to take another TD off the board. Considering how bad they've been most of the year, they played fairly well in this one by comparison.

I maintain that if you hold a team to 17 points, you should win. The defense did that. The offense needs to put points on the board and didn't. The ST needs to provide good field position and at a minimum, don't block in the back and get a TD called back. They didn't. The defense--regardless of what you thought of Gerhart's performance--held the Vikes to 17 when they give up 23 on average. They should've won.

Consider this: you know how many defenses give up 17 points or less on average? Five. Packers, Bears, Steelers, Jets, Ravens. If you thought our defense was anywhere in the same stratosphere as those units, then YOU have the problem...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

BTW...you know what the Vikings score on average?

17 points.

Just let that marinate...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse


BTW...you know what the Vikings score on average?

17 points.

Just let that marinate...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 9:55 AM |

this from a guy who says it's all about W's and L's

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Trying to blame this one on the defense is LUDICROUS!

how about our RBs are Keiland Williams and James Davis there shanaCOOL?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 30, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse


Trying to blame this one on the defense is LUDICROUS!

how about our RBs are Keiland Williams and James Davis there shanaCOOL?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 30, 2010 10:05 AM |

put the blame where it belong, on the entire team

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

instead of breaking it down by position, its fair to say we need everything....starts upfront both sides, so i'd say 8 new linemen....fix that everything looks a little better... the one thing i would look for is a real change of pace speed back on third down, someone who change make a big play with screen/draw. the young backs we have are serviceable if we provide them with a better line torain/williams/ davis could probally avg 4yds per carry+_ league avg.but I would like a speed back on third down no matter who is getting the carries on 1st and 2nd.... mcnabb benifited greatly by throwing a screen to westbrook and watching elude tacklers and make a big play.... just say'in...

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | November 30, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

complaining about our oline problems, which all of us have done for the last 2-3 years is like beating a dead horse

but sometimes you just need to beat the sheet outta that dead horse....that piece of sheeet

our oline sucks, smack......only williams is any good, and even he looks like he's been hurt most of the year, whack....and when our starters on oline get hurt and we put in the backups and they do good....smack, what do we do? put back in our sheeeety starters, whack.....and we lose again..smack smack whack

o yea, does anyone realize we have no playmakers? and in this day in age, how's that possible?

Posted by: retroskins14 | November 30, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

this from a guy who says it's all about W's and L's

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 10:01 AM


This from a guy who says "build thru the draft"

I can throw random phrases out there too...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

matt, get some horses up front, and you don't need a top notch rb...get 2 guards, and a center, and you'll be able to get good productivity out of KWill/RTorian, and JDavis....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

agreed, but every other team has better RBs than us, so get some RBs DURING CAMP!

If we did build our linethe last 4 years how good could it be?

sam baker, brandon alpert, rabach, Iupati, Oher

and we wouldn't have Landry, Orakpo...

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 30, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

If we can go for a Division record of 5-1 this season, it would at least be a
morally victorious season, much better than
last year's 0-6. If MS and the team can
accomplish a 5-1 season in the NFC East,
shutting out both the Giants and especially Dallas, then we can say it had
been a successful but a non-playoff season, giving us something to work on for next season.

Posted by: DeployedFan | November 30, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

beep, to be fair, Jammal Brown was the only one intended to be a starter. Hicks is a depth guy they brought in to compete at RG and NOBODY had Lichtensteiger as a starter. I'd share your concern if those guys were billed as legit starters...they weren't.

As for Westbrook, I was screaming at the top of my lungs for the Skins to make a legit run at him but if it was a case of money, I can live with that.

Nobody thought Allen was gonna be Pioli 2.0, but he's a definite upgrade over Vinny...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 6:50 AM |

Yes, lets be fair. Jammal Brown was a good gamble to make. A probowler that, if it worked, solved a problem we've had for years. A pro bowler people...can't complain about that one on the coaching/GM side. Westbrook, well, we made the guy an offer. So did several other teams. He chose San Fran. I guess we could have pulled a Vinny and cleared the cupboards for him but if he didn't work out everyone would have been all sandy vag. He's older and has concussion issues...a LOT of people were screaming no at this. To be fair.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | November 30, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse


this from a guy who says it's all about W's and L's

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 10:01 AM


This from a guy who says "build thru the draft"

I can throw random phrases out there too...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 10:12 AM |
---------

hey brown, both our phrases are true.

we have a good start with the draft class of 2010, let's try to aquire draft picks thru trade and keep at it, otherwise, it'll be more of the same

Posted by: hessone | November 30, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Producing turnovers is fools gold for this team. For all the turnovers we have, how many more points have we scored this year. Sometimes you need to stop people, period.

When you can't stop a team who has it's #2 RB in the game,it's 6 minutes left and you don't touch the ball again, you suck. The D-line is awful. Carriker has 10 solo takles in 11 games with .5 sacks, and he is one of our best.

Posted by: edavis291 | November 30, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

"we have a good start with the draft class of 2010"

um...we have 1 guy out of that draft class who plays on a regular basis....lets not kid ourselves here...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

um...we have 1 guy out of that draft class who plays on a regular basis....lets not kid ourselves here...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2010 10:44 AM


I would count undrafted rookies with that total...in which case, Brandon Banks makes two...but I get your point.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

BTW...you know what the Vikings score on average?

17 points.

Just let that marinate...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 30, 2010 9:55 AM

True, but we faced a mid season replacement first time head coach whose specialty was D - not O, Farvre was playing with broken bones in his ankle and AP was on the bench after the first quarter. Still, they achieved there average output. That's not a very good effort.

But there is plenty of blame for the O and ST's here as well. Like I said, this loss was a team effort.

Posted by: edvar | November 30, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

This is like reading a broken record..., well ok you can't read a broken record, but you get my point anyway. Different day, some story. The Post could save a lot on reporters by just reprinting articles from 8 years ago.

Posted by: 44fx2901 | November 30, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

To all the wise guys

When was the last time we got two starter by swapping draft picks within the same round??

Al the guys we brought in this yr in reality would be depth on most teams

Carriker, brown, hicks, will all be retained and moved to back up roles next yr, throw way back raybach in there too, better yet push him in

golston, maake will be bye bye in favor of draftees

your both right, the only thing that matters is wins n loses, they way you get there is getting the best guys for your scheme, either draft or free agency.


Posted by: brandon_in_cali | November 30, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

To all the wise guys

When was the last time we got two starter by swapping draft picks within the same round??

Al the guys we brought in this yr in reality would be depth on most teams

Carriker, brown, hicks, will all be retained and moved to back up roles next yr, throw way back raybach in there too, better yet push him in

golston, maake will be bye bye in favor of draftees

your both right, the only thing that matters is wins n loses, they way you get there is getting the best guys for your scheme, either draft or free agency.


Posted by: brandon_in_cali | November 30, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

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