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Redskins wide receivers should do homework on Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey

Unheralded wide receivers Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey thrived with the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan, and the Redskins' receiving corps would be wise to study a lot of film of the productive duo.

"They both had the ability to catch the football extremely well. They both were fearless blockers, fearless competitors," Shanahan said of Smith and McCaffrey. "Everything you look for in a football player. No prima donna in either of them.

"They were going to come on every play and give you everything they had. They set the foundation for our running game. How often can you get wide receivers that can block? Well, you get wide receivers who can block, then you got a chance to do something special."

By Jason Reid  |  March 30, 2010; 1:00 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid , Mike Shanahan  
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Next: Redskins take a look at Eric Berry with creating turnovers in mind

Comments

"THE LAST THING I WANT TO SEE IS SAM BRADFORD OR JIMMY CLAUSSEN THROWING THE BALL ALL AROUND THE FIELD AND WE COULDA HAD ONE OF EM'."

The last thing I want to see is Bradford/Clausen echo this career path with the Redskins:

"Should Oakland trade for McNabb, it would be the most stark admission by the Raiders that former No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell has not been the player the team had hoped. Oakland selected Russell with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2007 draft and awarded him a six-year, $68 million contract that included $31.5 million in guaranteed money."

Of course, this could have added pain by seeing Campbell continue his career as a starter for another team a la the aforementioned Trent Green, Brad Johnson, and Rich Gannon trio of former Redskin QBs.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

LOL at the thought of Santana Moss trying to run block

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Smith and McCaffery were beasts for a little while in the late 90's early 2000s.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

if you responded to my last post then dr. Freud would like to see you in his office

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I think we'd be pleased to see some wide receivers who run their patterns, get open and catch the ball.

Posted by: Vic1 | March 30, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

LOL at the thought of Santana Moss trying to run block

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Prob better then Sleepy Fred Davis attempts at slowing down onrushers.

Posted by: Stu27 | March 30, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Moss is a feisty little guy in the run game. Remember his fight with Corey Webster against the Giants last year?

Doesn't mean he's good at it, but at least he puts up a fight.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

If only the passes came to them in a timely manner, were not underthrown or behind them.......

/facepalm

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

BOOK IT!!!

(Legal disclaimer: the phrase "Book it!" is used with the assumed okay of 4thfloor)

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 30, 2010 9:06 AM

Please no.....This is chRIS LARry's TM...not mine.....I just abused it to get my point accross....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I'm taggin 'maps'. ...suchas...

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Where are we going to find a consistent, tall, willing to go over the middle and suffer the consequences, White Guy?

Calling Kost52....Kost, Shanahan wants YOU on his team!

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

one guy who seemed to like Campbell is joe Gibbs. Most coaches seem to like QBs with great wheels a la bill walsh, but Gibbs prefers a big strong guy that can stand in the pocket.

If only there WAS a pocket, then we could really see what we got.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

He may be feisty, but seriously he is 5-4 and 120lbs.....

Now DT, Fred Davis and Malcom need to be watching film on how to run block.

The only thing we can do to help the runner is send Moss on a fly pattern to take up a CB and possibly a safety on the play, because there is NO way he is blocking anyone.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Stu27;

I did not claim to be an expert in college football. But the point was that he is not the clear cut #1 safety in the draft.

Others like the kid from Texas, who, from his workout, was way more 'fluid in the hips' (i hate that term) and a more natural football player than Berry.

Berry has the speed, hops and hands, but the kid out of texas had the quicks, the brain etc...

So from that vantage point, and that vantage point only, I say no. Because i rely on the 'experts'. And you can trust some more than others, but when they ALL say Okung is the best tackle, i listen. When they disagree to who is the best safety, I listen there as well, but more about what is not said than is said.

So based upon that... i would not gamble that half of them are correct on one vs the other.

Obviously our scouts etc can put a grade on him etc... but we dont know what they think or what they have seen.

So from my meager point of view, which is just slight combine glimpses and expert 'analysis' - he seems like a risky pick at 4.

If you have a counter point other than I did not watch tenn football, i would like to hear it.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"THE LAST THING I WANT TO SEE IS SAM BRADFORD OR JIMMY CLAUSSEN THROWING THE BALL ALL AROUND THE FIELD AND WE COULDA HAD ONE OF EM'."

The last thing I want to see is Bradford/Clausen echo this career path with the Redskins:

"Should Oakland trade for McNabb, it would be the most stark admission by the Raiders that former No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell has not been the player the team had hoped. Oakland selected Russell with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2007 draft and awarded him a six-year, $68 million contract that included $31.5 million in guaranteed money."

Of course, this could have added pain by seeing Campbell continue his career as a starter for another team a la the aforementioned Trent Green, Brad Johnson, and Rich Gannon trio of former Redskin QBs.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse


psp3...your point is not incorrect, but what if we're right?

No risk....no reward!

Posted by: rickyroge | March 30, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

If not mistaken Marko Mitchell looked great in the preseason blocking downfield.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 30, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Rolle was released (in a gamble) by ARI to avoid the $4M roster bonus + $8M 2010 salary.

Posted by: dpc2003 | March 30, 2010 12:52 PM |

What the stats don't show and the reason he was released is that Rolle was burned by opposition WRs on a lot of big plays in 2009.

Posted by: ElDrano | March 30, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I think we'd be pleased to see some wide receivers who run their patterns, get open and catch the ball.

Posted by: Vic1 | March 30, 2010 1:12 PM

I thought the WRs were always open and JC just didn't get them the ball.

Posted by: dcwun | March 30, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

LOL at the thought of Santana Moss trying to run block

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM
------------------------------------------
He doesn't seem to have the skills that Shanahan was praising in this article. My feeling is Shanahan wants a bigger receiving corps and Moss might be trade bait to help him get what he wants.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 30, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

someone made a very good point on the last thread. Shanny wants competition at every position and we don't have any good OTs.

Draft Okung or Bulaga then sign Levi Jones. Done.

Your welcome. Draft a qb anywhere but the first round, if we suck again then we draft a qb in the first next year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

It isn't jsut the skills it is that he is physically unable to do this. It isn't his fault he can be as feisty as he wants but when 225 lbs wants to move 150 it does...game over.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

what CB is 225 and what WR is 150?

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

someone made a very good point on the last thread. Shanny wants competition at every position and we don't have any good OTs.

Draft Okung or Bulaga then sign Levi Jones. Done.

Your welcome. Draft a qb anywhere but the first round, if we suck again then we draft a qb in the first next year

Posted by: pabrian2003

Only draft a QB in the later rounds if you tfeel he's better than Colt B. Wasted pick otherwise.

Posted by: dcwun | March 30, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Santana Moss has been bulking up over the past couple of seasons, and is starting to look like a workout warrior. I am sure he doesn’t want to bulk up to the point where it slows him down, but I’ve never noticed him to be a poor blocker. He can hold his own in my opinion.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

it is usually the other way around, and even then when WR's have the weight and height avantage, they still cant block.

It is more attitude than physicality.

See Hines Ward, CP blocking much bigger LB's... No reason moss cant get that done.

The more damming word was PRIMA DONNA... Moss' ball spinning can be borderline...

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

its funny how everything shanny says, which isnt much, leads to one of our more productive players being trade bait.

Shanny, said, "hi" this must mean heyer will be cut. Shanny said, "um" we must be drafting umdamakong suh ( I'm reaching)

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

The more damming word was PRIMA DONNA... Moss' ball spinning can be borderline...

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:33 PM |

I think the days of celebrating 10 yard catches or tackles made 30 yards down field are over, Shanny wont put up with that crap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 30, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I think we'd be pleased to see some wide receivers who run their patterns, get open and catch the ball.

Posted by: Vic1 | March 30, 2010 1:12 PM

I thought the WRs were always open and JC just didn't get them the ball.

Posted by: dcwun | March 30, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------

Seems as if Vic1 is starting to come to the dark side

Posted by: mattsoundworld | March 30, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I doubt we can get much beyond a 3rd rounder for Moss. I don't know how the $$ plays out, but would we want that?

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I think the days of celebrating 10 yard catches or tackles made 30 yards down field are over, Shanny wont put up with that crap.

Posted by: Flounder21


Uh oh!!! laron must me mad, he won't be able to celebrate after tackling soemone 10 yards downfield.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"psp3...your point is not incorrect, but what if we're right?

No risk....no reward!

Posted by: rickyroge | March 30, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse"

If Shanahan believes Bradford is the real deal for his system, and if the Redskins can select him at #4, I wouldn't be terribly upset.

But there's no way I think the Redskins should package a trade that looks even remotely close to what the Giants gave up for Eli Manning. The Redskins are already short on draft picks, short on long term contracts, and have a list of needs out the window. If we give up 4 draft picks to get Bradford when we only have 5 draft picks in the current draft, then this team essentially set themselves back an entire year (especially if you assume Bradford will just sit and learn his first year). This team will already struggle to fill all the gaps they have this season, and if they bet the house on upgrading at QB by a similar trade to the Manning-Rivers deal, they'll hardly be able to fill any of those holes through the draft. And given the number of restricted FAs we have, there will be even more needs next season than there are this season.

I just don't see how a team short on draft picks goes through a significant rebuilding phase by trading multiple draft picks in order to select one player. It would be different if, like the Giants in 2004, the Redskins had more than a full set of draft picks (the Giants had 8 in 2004, the year before they had 11). Then we could afford to trade up. But that's not the case with the Skins. Short on draft picks and long on needs is not the setting for making a bold move at the top of the draft.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

hopefully flound

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

It's like some of you want a bunch of drones on the field.

The minute a guy shows a little "life" he's labeled a 'prima donna'.

Moss' ball spinning *pause* isn't anywhere near as bad as what it could be.

When Moss proposes to one of the cheerleaders during the game, let me know.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

its funny how everything shanny says, which isnt much, leads to one of our more productive players being trade bait.

Shanny, said, "hi" this must mean heyer will be cut. Shanny said, "um" we must be drafting umdamakong suh ( I'm reaching)

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2010 1:35 PM
-----------------------------------------
You were reaching when you implied Heyer was on of the more productive players... but I get your drift.

Frankly, my impression is Shanahan - although willing to change some of his plays to accomodate unique skills of some of his players - has an idea in mind of what players in each position should look like. I think he looked at the receivers and said to Allen, "We need to get bigger". I think he looked at the offensive line and said, "Major overhaul - can't do it all in one year, so spackle with some holdovers at guard/center and we'll draft some tackles." I think he looked at the running backs and said, "Portis could be good enough but we need some insurance. Sign LJ and let's plan on drafting/signing some undrafted free agents." I think he looked at Campbell and said, "Could be a stop-gap but I have no emotional investment in the guy. I want a QB to groom on my own but I could wait a year. Let's see what we can get in trade..."

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 30, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Nothing wrong with Moss'es spinning of the ball......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

When Moss proposes to one of the cheerleaders during the game, let me know.

Posted by: RedDMV


PFT is reporting that Santana Moss has just indeed propsed to one of the Washington Redskins "shortest" cheerleaders, thus rebuking RedDMV's previous argument.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 1:09 PM

Come on son. Are you serious? Trent Green is a never was as far as being a Redskin. One decent season and he flew the coop of his own volition. Johnson and Gannon weren't even drafted by the Skins. Johnson was traded away because Danny was a numbskull. Gannon did nothing in his career, including his one year here, until he went to Oakland in his 12th season.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

4th;

when you are down big, and it was not a big gainer, or a crucial 4th down, it is completely unnecessary.

And i like it, when it is warranted. But doing it all the time actually devalues its intended effect.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

If you have a counter point other than I did not watch tenn football, i would like to hear it.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I said you dont like watching college football. Not that you dont watch Tenn football. if you had watched Tenn football then you would know what an amazing player he is.
1st. Not sure what "experts" dont think Berry is the #1 FS. All the people I see saying Okung is the best also agree that Berry is the best saftey., Mayock maybe?
2nd. Your saying the experts are saying that his hips aren't fluid and he is not an intelligent player. This is the opposite that I have heard from everyone. Simply watching him and you see his fluidity and natural playing ability.
3rd. i still want Okung he is the best Tackle which we desperatly need however the Oline depth in this years draft is amazing.
4th. Suh played better last year then McCoy, he was easily the most dominate player in CFB last year. So they are not a toss up.
5th. Its always funner to watch CFB and have a birds eye opinion then to not watch it and solely rely on "experts" this time of year.

Posted by: Stu27 | March 30, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

mmmmmhhhh - cheeerleeeaders... gah.

sorry - got lost for a minute.

But lets face facts, the biggest position upgrades on this team have already happened Allen & Shanahan! And with the exception of Haslett, have we really had anything to complain about with any of the decisions made since then?

Hey - it's nice to be arguing about smaller fish than the HC & GM!

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

But lets face facts, the biggest position upgrades on this team have already happened Allen & Shanahan! And with the exception of Haslett, have we really had anything to complain about with any of the decisions made since then?

Hey - it's nice to be arguing about smaller fish than the HC & GM!

Posted by: DikShuttle


I second this opinion.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

at the combine they said Earl Thomas would be a better safety.

I dont remember who 'they' were.

I also heard it elsewhere. Berry will be the splash but thomas will ahve the better overall career.

But realy the first poitn was we have two good safeties who could be great together with the right coaching.

So either way, No to Berry.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

It's like some of you want a bunch of drones on the field.

The minute a guy shows a little "life" he's labeled a 'prima donna'.

Moss' ball spinning *pause* isn't anywhere near as bad as what it could be.

When Moss proposes to one of the cheerleaders during the game, let me know.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 1:46 PM

Red, I'm a little thrown off by this post. No ripping-a-new-hole or insulting ... just a reasonable tone and thought. Are you OK or on meds or something?

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

And with the exception of Haslett, have we really had anything to complain about with any of the decisions made since then?

Posted by: DikShuttle

Wow, really?

I thought everyone was cool with Haslett coaching the defense.

Could they have done any better?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

... when you are down big, and it was not a big gainer, or a crucial 4th down, it is completely unnecessary. ...

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:54 PM

Most of the time, Moss is double covered. I'm guessing he's just psyched when he gets the ball thrown to him.

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

VIKINGS REPORTEDLY "NOT INTERESTED" IN CAMPBELL

MINNEAPOLIS -- The Minnesota Vikings have reportedly decided to take a pass on Washington Redskins restricted free agent quarterback Jason Campbell, explaining that they'd rather deal with the continued uncertainty of not knowing whether Brett Favre will return for another campaign in 2010, instead of having to contend with the near-certainty that Campbell will continue to play "up" to his normal standards.

For his part, Campbell is said to be sad but upbeat, explaining to close associates that while he had hoped to wear a purple jersey in 2010, he still believes "this is the season" that he will to take whatever team he ends up playing for to the playoffs.

Campbell's agents are reportedly calling around league front offices looking for other offers, while the quarterback himself tries to decide whether to buy his playoff tickets through Ticketmaster or Stubhub.

Posted by: Vic1 | March 30, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

And with the exception of Haslett, have we really had anything to complain about with any of the decisions made since then?

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 1:55 PM

What's wrong with Haslett? Also, I've been b!tching about signing Larry Johnson (30) to a three year deal ... but that was because I had a bug up my butt that day. I'm over it.

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Red, I'm a little thrown off by this post. No ripping-a-new-hole or insulting ... just a reasonable tone and thought. Are you OK or on meds or something?

Posted by: dcsween


Close.

Today is my birthday.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I seem to recall a good number of times the sportscasters have done the old slow motion playback, highlighting Santana Moss' extra blocking efforts downfield. He's shown himself to be a good team player over the years minus an off-campus off-season workout program here and there.
Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time can be the thing to help your teammate get more yardage and that takes effort and heart. Shanny will get that from his guys.
I can't wait to see some of the wicked 2 TE setups Kyle will have with Cooley and Davis along with a big bodied WR like Kelly or two. The combination of good hands on the field along with the blocking potential for either Portis OR Johnson, who either are a realistic threat on a healthy day, really makes me believe that we're going to have defenses on their heels from the word 'hike' this year!! I can't wait!!
Let's get the Oline shored up to give this plan time to work.

HTTR

Posted by: DC2AZ99 | March 30, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Happy (fUkciNg) birthday, Red!

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

happy b-day red...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | March 30, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Close.
Today is my birthday.
Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:08 PM


And you’re up here? If you are killing time at work, I can see that. If you have the day off and you are up here on you’re bday, than you are approaching League Source –ville……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

HEyyyy B-Day boi! wtg. go git sum!

I'm not necessarily against Haslett. I'm not sold, either. But with the 3-4 debate and some fans I've overheard comlaining(not so much here) that was the only thing I could come up with.

I can understand arguing agianst the LJ move, but it's not like they sold the farm for him (like when JayTay came to town).

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

thnx hamster peeps...

dl, I'm at work, so it's like a normal day for me.

RI time killing.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Come on son. Are you serious? Trent Green is a never was as far as being a Redskin. One decent season and he flew the coop of his own volition. Johnson and Gannon weren't even drafted by the Skins. Johnson was traded away because Danny was a numbskull. Gannon did nothing in his career, including his one year here, until he went to Oakland in his 12th season.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse"

Trent Green is a never was as far as being a Redskin...
Gannon did nothing as a Redskin...
Johnson was traded away because Danny was a numbskull...

Now you're telling me that if Jason Campbell were to be traded away and ended up carving out a solid career as a starter elsewhere, you couldn't see:

Vic1 saying "Jason Campbell is a never was as a Redskin..."

p1funk saying "Campbell did nothing as a Redskin..."

and me saying "Campbell was traded away because Danny was a numbskull..." ?

The entire point behind the post was to refute Vic1's offering that "regardless of system, some QBs are more failures than others" (paraphrased).

I just gave you 3 former Redskin QBs that were in fact NOT failures (2 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Super Bowl title, 1 MVP, and multiple pro-bowls between them), but were by your own admission viewed as nothing as Redskins.

So again, how was I wrong?

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

I think we'd be pleased to see some wide receivers who run their patterns, get open and catch the ball.

Posted by: Vic1 | March 30, 2010 1:12 PM

I know someone else posted this but I'll repeat it (even though I should know better than to poke a very stupid bear).
If the receivers can't run the right patterns, get open or even catch the ball, why do you blame the QB?

Posted by: mack1 | March 30, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Today is my birthday.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:08 PM

And which birthday is it? If you had your birthyear/vintage in your name, like Diesel44, pabrain2003, or psps23, we could know. I'm guessing that you would be RedDMV82.

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Happy Birthday Red. (Rare Essence has a song about that you know.)

Posted by: mack1 | March 30, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Red, good.

Happy birthday!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

psps started this thread by mentioning some QBs that had gone thru DC.

I've done a bit of research, my memory being what it is, and will compare them to Campbell.

Rich Gannon
Before turning 30, Gannon had played for Minn and the Skins, was 20-19 for his career as a starter, playing 2 years for Jerry Burns, 1 for Dennis Green and 1 for Richie Pettibone. His passer rating was in the low 70's, with 1 year just over 80. He was never in the top 10 in any desirable category

After turning 30, he played at a higher level, really beginning at age 33. He was mostly a backup for 4 years under Marty Schottenheimer in KC before going to Oakland. For the five years in Oakland, Gannon was a Pro Bowler 4 times and his QB ratings was over 90, peaking at 97. Notably, he spent those 5 years in one system -- 3 years under John Gruden and 2 more under Bill Callahan, Gruden offensive coordinator. As a a starter, Gannon was 56-37 after turning 30.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Joe Theismann began starting games at age 27 under George Allen for 2 seasons, then Jack Pardee for 3 more. Prior to age 30, Theismann was 14-11 a s a starter, with a QB rating best of 61. After turning 30, his QB rating was 80 for the next 2 years, going 16-15. Then Joe Gibbs came to town and we all know the story. Theismann's ratings and wins soared -- he averaged a 92 rating from 1982-1984, with 2 Pro Bowl appearances and an MVP.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Trent Green had only 14 starts in his 20's, all for Norv. He went to StL at age 30 and went 2-3 as a starter under Mike Martz. His QB rating in those 20 or so games was actually pretty good, in the mid 80's.
He went to KC at age 31 and started for Dick Vermeil for the next 5 years. His QB rating exceeded 90 in 4 of the 5 years. Green went to 2 Pro Bowls and was 8 games over .500 in that time.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Close.
Today is my birthday.
Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:08 PM

You made it through another year congrats. You even managed at times to show a somewhat more mellow side, that shocked the natural order of this blog. Much appreciated. Hope you enjoy the remainder of you day.

Posted by: TWISI | March 30, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Happy 12th Red.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | March 30, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Interesting take on why Eric Berry, like other safeties before him, likely will be selected later than everyone thinks.

http://www.walterfootball.com/nfldraftsafeties.php

Red, don't fall for LeagueSource1911's bait.

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

So what do we see in these case studies?

All 3 QBs played in multiple systems for multiple coaches before they succeeded. Of the 3, only Green played for a top offensive coach prior to success. None made a Pro Bowl before turning 30, all made multiple Pro Bowls after turning 30. Of note, all had their success when they stayed in the same system -- in each case, for about 5 seasons. Also of note, each player was 'decent' before becoming a very good player.

As they got older, their QB play and their W/L records got substantially better.

So let's look at Jason Campbell against these case studies.

Instability in systems? Check
So-so coaching? Check
Average QB rating prior to success? Check

Campbell has been average with instability in system, mediocre coaching and a bad OL. At this point, we anticipate a major improvement the coaching, much greater stability and upgrade to the talent surrounding the QB.

Bottom line, these case studies suggest that its very possible for a QB to improve a lot from the spot where Campbell is right now.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 2:22 PM

Your point is still flawed. None of these guys' playing tenures is comparable to Campbell's. I said Green was a "never was" because he actually "played" one season here. He had a decent year. The system was not the problem. He parlayed his success into a good deal in St. Louis. Brad Johnson had a good year here and took the Skins to the playoffs. The next year was not as good but that wasn't all on him. Again, system was not the issue. Danny traded him away. Gannon only started four games for the Skins and hadn't really done anything in the NFL up to that point. If anyone gave up on him, it was the Vikings not the Skins.

If JC leaves here and does well, God bless him. But let's not act like he didn't get an opportunity here.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Different era, Zeke. Still, good memories on the Theismann bit.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Close.

Today is my birthday.

Posted by: RedDMV
____________________

The day when everyone else should be swearing profusely.

Posted by: Oogalaboogala | March 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Damn, Rare Essence, mack?

Thats that golden age go-go...

League-S, 84.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

4th;

when you are down big, and it was not a big gainer, or a crucial 4th down, it is completely unnecessary.

And i like it, when it is warranted. But doing it all the time actually devalues its intended effect.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 1:54 PM

I agree with you...especially when we were down big last year and he scored and we were still down big and he did it.....I wasn't happy woth that...

Maybe it was one of those reactionary things.....BEcause there's alot of emotion involved as well....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Happy Birthday, Red.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 30, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Red, don't fall for LeagueSource1911's bait.

Posted by: dcsween | March 30, 2010 2:34 PM

Ha, ha, dcsween1953. Always quick and clever with those jokes!!

You and I have met face-to-face, so we both know the truth, or at least think we do.

--League-Source1972

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Happy Birthday Red. I'd send you something, but I wouldn't want to get the size and color wrong.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

darn, shucks peeps...

mad shout outs to everybody on the board.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

hear ya 4th... and i love moss. still wear #89 every once in while when the 75th ST jersey needs a break.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 30, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Joe Theismann began starting games at age 27 under George Allen for 2 seasons, then Jack Pardee for 3 more. Prior to age 30, Theismann was 14-11 a s a starter, with a QB rating best of 61. After turning 30, his QB rating was 80 for the next 2 years, going 16-15. Then Joe Gibbs came to town and we all know the story. Theismann's ratings and wins soared -- he averaged a 92 rating from 1982-1984, with 2 Pro Bowl appearances and an MVP.
Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:29 PM |

I would argue that Thiesmann was the best QB in the league from 1981 through the 83 season……yes, better than even Montana (at that point in his career of course). How’s this for a stretch as a starter:
From week 6 of the 81 season though the 84 season he led the team to a 47 win 12 loss record (80% wins) with 3 division titles and 2 SB appearances. He was of course surrounded by immense talent, most notably starting with the offensive line known as the hogs.

The fans were nowhere near “sold” on him until he started playing really well in the 81 season. Most would have benched/cut/traded him well before then. Hmmmmmmm………

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Different era, Zeke. Still, good memories on the Theismann bit.

Posted by: DikShuttle

Its a benchmark study Dik. Look at successful profiles and see how guys succeeded. Its not just 1 guy who went from so-so to great success. The key attributes appear to be experience, stability and quality coaching.

Didn't assess the surrounding talent, though I'm pretty sure that played a role as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Where are we going to find a consistent, tall, willing to go over the middle and suffer the consequences, White Guy?

Calling Kost52....Kost, Shanahan wants YOU on his team!

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse


Ask and you shall receive....Riley Cooper

Riley Cooper stood on his 40 from the combine (4.55) and did positional work with Tebow. He has great size (6-3 3/8, 222) and is an extremely athletic kid that tracks the football and makes the hard catch look easy. One of the best blocking wide receivers in the draft also has a history on special teams as a jammer and gunner. Has to eliminate the “easy” drop. -Mike Mayock

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | March 30, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

learnedhand--Did your wife give birth to a 12-year-old? They don't give bad report cards any more, so don't sweat it. All the kids are way above average. And if they do give a bad report card, you're sending her to the wrong school. She's right -- it's not her fault.

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Happy Birthday young.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has been average with instability in system, mediocre coaching and a bad OL. At this point, we anticipate a major improvement the coaching, much greater stability and upgrade to the talent surrounding the QB.

Bottom line, these case studies suggest that its very possible for a QB to improve a lot from the spot where Campbell is right now.

Posted by: zcezcest1


Way to research 3 QB's whose statistic anomolies matched your point so that you could pass this off as fact for EVERY QB in history!!!!

Fail

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, but the counter to that argument is Rothlisberger, EManning and most recently, Sanchez... tho final word still out there.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

LS, you're right. I forgot that everyone's a winner now days. There are no losers. Everyone gets a trophy just for participating. Everyone gets a Valentine's Day card or candy. No one is left out. That's why kids go off the deep end when they get teased or no one friends them on facebook. That's why the Redskins' current starting QB should keep his job until he retires.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

lol@LH

That's why there's a failblog! hahahahahah

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Where your argument gets mixed up with mine is your assumption that Campbell didn't have a decent year.

I'll tell you right now, in my opinion, that's not the case. Campbell did have a decent year and I'd show you my supporting stats, but you already know them by heart no doubt.

Of course, the detractors will say the only stat that matters is wins and losses.

Well how did Trent Green do in that department?

It's a very similar scenario. Both were decent QBs who had decent seasons on bad teams. Campbell is labeled a failure, but as Green showed, you can't let a team's performance automatically judge the QB's ability.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

That's why kids go off the deep end when they get teased or no one friends them on facebook.

Posted by: learnedhand1


When it become cool to spew insults and act in a profane manner on the internet?

Damn these "internet gangsters".

But seriously though, I didn't know it that bad among teenagers with social networking sites and text messaging.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:41 PM
------------------------------------------
It's time for the old "accountability" lecture. Been there, done that, ain't too much fun, but it's necessary.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 30, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.
Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:41 PM

Shouldn’t you just tell her that no matter what happens, it’s perfectly clear that she will never get a good report card? And then kick her to the curb without offering to get her some help?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I thot it went something like this:

Ah, I see by your grades that you WANT me to open the Sweatshop. "HOney?! Go get the sewing machine" See baby, this is "burberry" and this is "Fendi". Now take these patterns and.....

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1

Real simple learned ... When your daughter comes home from 2nd grade with a bad report card tell her this. "I already graduated from 2nd grade. This is your time to succeed."

Always make it about her and her success, never take her successes or failures too personally. Its tough for a parent to do, but the more you allow her to take responsibility and credit for both her successes and failures, the better off she'll be.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

It's time for the old "accountability" lecture. Been there, done that, ain't too much fun, but it's necessary.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 30, 2010 2:57 PM

That's what was lacking from the Jimmy Z days as head honcho. Not to many things are more frustratingly annoying than a adult who can't grasp the meaning of self accountability. Drives me crazy.

Posted by: sthai75 | March 30, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

RE, GET BUSY ONE TIME!!!

Happy Pa's Asadashi, Red!!

Posted by: frak | March 30, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1


Waive the gun around... it works for me.

Posted by: skinball77 | March 30, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Learned - I don't have your email anymore...but I droped you a line on FB...thanks..

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, but the counter to that argument is Rothlisberger, EManning and most recently, Sanchez... tho final word still out there.

Posted by: DikShuttle

There is more than one path to success for a QB in this league. To date, Campbell's career mimics the 3 guys I mentioned. All were average. All either were traded or easily could have been. None had good coaching situations. All played here in DC.

All got better as they gained experience, got good coaching and had stability.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 30, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:41 PM
============================

"I know, sweetie. It's all Jason Campbell's fault...just like everything else."

P.S. Happy, Happy, to RedDMV.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 30, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

My question is to Ernie.....

You said you wanted to find a diamond in the rough that’s why you are signing a bunch of 10 day contracts. Now you found one, well you did find one. Now you say that you don’t want to sign players until after you a sign a top-free agent or 2. Fine!!! But after you try to sign your coveted player’s (whom are not going to sign here and you know it!!!) you still are going to have to is sign players to fill roster spots. Gee was perfect, a ROOKIE that plays hard don’t open his mouth ( unlike GIL & Blatche) probably going to be in next years NBA dunk contest to help bring some excitement to the team. I have been your strongest supporter on this blog. I never posted anything negative towards you!! But I am extremely upset, because you let Gee walk, Livingston will be next and maybe even Singleton. So then what re-sign Howard who will get hurt again in the first month of the season? Oh I get it sign Randy Foye, yea that will fix things Randy & Gil back court!!! Please

Do you know why people love sports!!!! Because people have jobs!!!…. They go to work and work hard every day got to put up with there bosses crap….everyday. Then they come home, got to listen to there wife/girlfriend crap, put on top of bills, kids, the economy and etc. That most respectable men has to put up with, every day! And if you’re strong, and you don’t have some drug or alcohol habit or trying to screw every woman that walks by just to keep your sanity….. But you know what we have is sports!!! and most people on this blog love the Wiz/Bullets. We put up with so much over the years it sick to the stomach, when I think about it going all the way back to the days of fat and slow Jeff Rolland.

Coming home the last week 20 days I was dammm the Wiz suck but least I get to watch Gee play, yea were are going to loose but he gives us excitement and some hope…. I am no way saying he is MJ or Kobe because he’s not (far from it)…but he was a sign of hope real or unreal…. Now after work I am thinking dam the Wiz on tonight and we let Gee walk, they are going to be boring as hell what else can I do!!! Sadly nothing because I looking forward to the game and I didn’t make plans, Why because in some ways that’s all I have!!!

It’s not about Gee and its all about Gee to a certain extent… I’m tired of this organizations lying to us, just tell the truth!!! There a saying a bird in a hand is better than one in the bush!!! Even more so when that little-birdie would have sign of the vet min.!! We are going to have to pay some one that vet-minim. But not a soft spoken Rookie that keeps he’s mouth shut, plays hard, and brings excitement. YOU WILL NOT FIND A BETTER BARGIN THE REST OF YOUR CAREER, Ernie!!!

Posted by: dsquare | March 30, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Happy Day of birth Red.

LH you realize you engaged in a debate with psps23 right? He believes he wins by word count alone. Which he does b/c opponents are bored to death.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 30, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

My question is to Ernie.....

Posted by: dsquare | March 30, 2010 3:16 PM

dsquare--You obviously put a lot of thought into this post. Why don't you go put it on the Wizards blog? I think that's the one that Ernie follows, at least this time of year.

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Dude, this is an AA meeting.

The yell at Ernie Grunfeld meeting is across the hall in romm 122.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 30, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fairly new parent so I have a question: When my daughter comes home from school with a bad report card and blames everyone but herself, what should I say to her? I just want to be prepared.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 30, 2010 2:41 PM

"Pick it up kid, or you'll end up on RI blogging your guts out all day."

Posted by: 4-12 | March 30, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"Pick it up kid, or you'll end up on RI blogging your guts out all day."

Posted by: 4-12 | March 30, 2010 3:23 PM |

Let me fix that for you:

"Pick it up kid, or you'll end up on RI ranting at Ernie Grunfeld."

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

BOGO!

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Wow...

I thought everyone hated RedDMV??

Human Beings are amazing....

Welcome to the Show Reds...(What's Up What's Up).....

Now Work dem Walls.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEE7aVsb5Js

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Red, is today the big day? Happy 26th.

Posted by: edvar | March 30, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Why would anyone H8 on RedD?! he's onna tha most entertaining folks here...

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

It seems crystal clear that a QB will be taken in the 4 slot

Posted by: NateinthePDX1 | March 30, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Just because its funny, Reading Rainbow and Star Treks Lavar Burton just posted his phone number on his twitter account.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 30, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

oooohhhh, that's gonna be gooooood.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

It seems crystal clear that a QB will be taken in the 4 slot

Posted by: NateinthePDX1 | March 30, 2010 3:37 PM

And when you put that together with the historic observation that Allen and Shanahan are good at disguising their intentions, the crystal is as clear as mud. I think "crystal clear" applies better to Gibbs/Cerrato/Snyder than Allen and Shanahan. God, I hope I'm right.

Posted by: League-Source | March 30, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

You know that's fake, right?

Posted by: NateinthePDX1 | March 30, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

TEBOWBEEPS

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | March 30, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Crystal Clear is that Vodka Hostess/Hooker I paired up with in Lauderdale that lost weekend...

... don't park in the swayle.. in old fart liquor dale...

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 30, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

For some reason I can't post Toby's real name.

But that dude Lavar Burton is 'Toby'.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 30, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

The more I watch Bradford's game reels, the more obvious it becomes that he is Shanny's type of guy. Problem is, I want Okung too.

So let's get creative here...

The Rams need EVERYTHING just about - with a special emphasis on QB, WR, CB and DE (plus TE, OT. DT, LB and SS last time I checked)

What if we bundle JC 17 with (pick any TWO) guys like Carlos, Carter, Cooley, Wilson, Golston, or Kelley and then throw in Montgomery for good measure (maybe we should sign him first...)?

They fill at least three holes, and we get Bradford and Okung and still have an early second rounder. That is a nucleus to build a team around. Losing any of those two won't kill us, and Monty never plays anyway.

Stranger things....

Posted by: edvar | March 30, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Draft Okung at #4. He could be Shanahan's new Ryan Clady. Cornerstone of this O-Line for the next decade.

Wait till 2011 to draft the QB of the future. That draft should be under the new rookie pay scale (like the NBA does). So a 1stRd QB will be cheaper/less risky. Plus, that draft class should be full of talent compared to this one:

Jake Locker, Ryan Mallet(JR), Christian Ponder, Terrelle Pryor(JR), Jerrod Johnson, even Case Keenum

And if Andrew Luck declares next year he could be the best prospect of them all. Stanford smart, pro-style offense, high TD-INT ratio, pocket-passer w/ quick release, father was an NFL qb, plays for Jim Harbaugh. Oh. And Winner.

Posted by: Sheriff_Gonna_Getcha | March 30, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Now Work dem Walls.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEE7aVsb5Js

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2010 3:31 PM

4th, That's a classic but I thought we agreed the roto tom is ruining go go.

Posted by: mack1 | March 30, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Did Big Ben and Eli win without a running game or an O line ? Sanchez,played behind a great line and with a great running game this year...what's the point of mentioning them in comparison to Campbell ?

Posted by: petebowling1 | March 31, 2010 1:49 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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