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Shanahan, from all angles

There's no doubt that Mike Shanahan will remake the Redskins in his image, but what is that image? Although we've watched him coach forever, who is Mike Shanahan? Les Carpenter writes:

Most coaches take vacations when they leave the NFL. Shanahan instead acted as if he never left, traveling to Florida to study Urban Meyer's spread offense and to New England to watch how Patriots Coach Bill Belichick ran his opearation.
Such obsession led to two Broncos Super Bowl victories. It made him such a beloved figure in Denver that he recently opened a steakhouse and is still affectionately known around town as "the Mastermind." But his thirst for power and a confidence in his own coaching brilliance led him make bad player decisions, ultimately fracturing relationships inside the Denver front office. He won only one playoff game in the 10 years after the last Super Bowl, helped get the team fined twice for salary cap violations, then was fired after an 8-8 season in 2008.
An intensity burns in Shanahan, 57, that is unique even in a league of meglomaniac coaches. He is not a tall man, standing 5-foot-9, yet his compulsion about the smallest components and his demands that everything be perfect, create an air of rigid formality.
"There's no casual with Coach Shanahan," said Paul Kirk, the Broncos' former media director who now runs the Denver-based public relations firm ProLink Sports. "You come prepared and you don't make excuses."

***

Pardon Michael Wilbon if he has a wait-and-see attitude toward the hiring of Shanahan.

Hey, I don't want to come off as Mr. Gloom & Doom on the hiring of Shanahan. The man owns two Super Bowl rings. He has put together great lines, gotten prolific rushing attacks from backs nobody ever heard of, developed receivers, tutored quarterbacks. Shanahan has forgotten more about offensive football this morning than a great many coaches will learn in their lifetimes. I won't use the G-word; let's just say he has one of the best minds out there.
Still, the Washington Redskins have been losers too much over the past 15 years, too dysfunctional in too many ways, too repeatedly stubborn to receive anything close to benefit of the doubt.

By Cindy Boren  |  January 6, 2010; 1:21 PM ET
Categories:  Mike Shanahan  
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Next: Allen: In Shanahan, 'we got our man'

Comments

How can you hate on Wilbon's article? He's 100% correct. I'm cautiously optomistic about Shanny, but I'll need to see results first.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

JReid and The Gang:

Thanks a bunch for pumping out all this content on the Skins. I've been reading this site for quite some time, but these days I'm checking it hourly (maybe worse). Can't find a better place to get the scoop!

Posted by: torington | January 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Bruce Allen is no stiff who took the job to stand around and look pretty. I'm sure both he and Shanahan will have input re personnel, despite what the leaks about contract details say.

I don't think there's anyway Campbell is back here. So I hope they get compensation for him if another team makes an offer.

Of course it's always possible that no team will make an offer for Campbell, which would be funny as hell but not really surprising.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone heard from Buges yet? Is he being asked to stay?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone heard from Buges yet? Is he being asked to stay?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 1:44 PM |

He is retiring!

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm with WILBON, call me stupid.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Problem is that a coach needs to focus his time on the players on the team, while the Exec needs to spend his time looking at everyone else -- college players, free agents, other players on other teams/practice squads. Literally a couple thousand players. Both jobs are 100 hour a week jobs.

As for negotiating and coaching, its been pointed out on many occasions how problematic it is to play both roles. Even though Allen has 'responsibility', if Shanny is the ultimate authority, everyone will know that nothing is final with Allen.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 1:24 PM |

Andy Reid has final say on players in Philly how does he do it.

Cowher won a SB with final say on players in Pitts.

Gruden won a SB with final say on players in TB, he also took the sorry a$$ Raiders to the SB with final say on players.

You think Jeff Fisher in Tenn. doesn't have final say on players?

Belichich has final say on everything for the Pats. how does he manage it?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Campbell will be here next year. No way Shanny throws out a rookie QB in year 1. He can draft 1 and let him sit a year, but with an upgraded line, JC should put up better numbers than he did this year under this travesty of a line. Plus an improved running game, which Shanny will no doubt bring, will also make JC better.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

"No one can do both and be nearly as effective as compared to two guys who properly divide responsibilities."

Instances where it has worked, and worked wonders: Jimmy Johnson, Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher. All 3 have done it tremendously. Two of them are the two most successful coaches of the free agency era (and yes, Belichick has had full reign over football decisions his entire coaching career, even when Pioli was backing him up -- much like Allen). Bill Parcells did it in New England, NY Jets, and Dallas, all three times turning around horrid franchises into playoff teams within 2 years. Even Joe Gibbs did it, and that's been the only bright spot in this Redskins franchise for nearly the past 2 decades.

Shanahan's deal ensures that Shanahan gets to select the players he wants for his system, which is the way it always should be. Allen deals with the contracts, the negotiations, the diplomacy, and everything else behind the scenes. So long as you have the right mind behind the football decisions (and Shanahan is that mind), this is exactly the situation you want to have.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

e: Wilbon

Michael is simply bitter that his Chicago Bears gave Lovie another year and didn't pursue Shanny.

His job is to cover the Skins and while he typically does a great job his true love is the Bears. Probably better to have an unbiased opinion, but take it for what it's worth, an opinion from a Bears fan.


Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 1:43 PM

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Wilbon hates D.C. sports and it's fans. When Tiger screws up he defends him and makes excuses. When the Skins do something positive he cannot give them credit. He would be the best writer if his head and favoritism did not get in the way all the time.

I understand the past but the fans called for this and Snyder did it. That's a sign of positive change. Snyder is doing things that Wilbon claimed he would never do. Of course the Skins will win a super bowl before this huge ego of a writer ever admits he is wrong. He should be writing in Chicago where he can drool of super stars some more.

Posted by: Mike4169 | January 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Aloha. That was sporty, having the site crash last night and this am, LOL. I bet you were ready to hit more than a web server with that polo mallet Cindy.

I'm optimistic. I think Danny finally gets it... and at the end of the day BA/MS are so much better than VC/JZ, its really not even a comparison.

Very interesting to see Cooley's comments. It seems as if he didn't rally want to just obviously throw JC under the bus, but that was certainly less than a ringing endorsement for him as the teams QB. Perhaps its being misconstrued and is an accurate assessment...how was JC supposed to grab the team by the balls after what had happened all off season? The FO basically cut his nuts off, and i think JC just decided to shut up, play, and hope to a) lead by example, b) prove his detractors wrong and c) get paid.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Wilbon is a hater. Why would anyone listen to his opinion. Anyone remember his "ST embraced violence"? comment?

F@ck wilbon!

Posted by: thor2 | January 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"...traveling to Florida to study Urban Meyer's spread offense and to New England to watch how Patriots Coach Bill Belichick ran his opearation."


The two things the offenses featured in New England and at UF are speed and accurate passing.

Presently, we have neither.

Shanny does indeed have his work cut out for him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

thor, 1000percent agreed...hate wilbon...lying sack of excrement....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

CAMPBELL will be offered. And there are teams with a solid o-line looking to upgrade at QB. JASON can play, he may never be better than average, but behind a decent line, I think his best as a REDSKIN can become his norm somewhere else. I believe the consensus conjecture is a third pick, if we offer and he goes.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 6, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

So, Allen's is not a talent evaluator and Shannahan is not a talent evaluator.
I hope they keep Morroco.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

The problem with Wilbon's argument is he assumes the Redskins are ASKING for the "benefit of the doubt."

The Redskins are an organization, not an individual with a past drug problem asking for employment, i.e., "the benefit of the doubt."

If Wilbon doesn't like them, fine. If he doesn't want to buy into the change, fine. Who cares? He's a Bears fan, which means he has own issues.

I'm optimistic simply because I KNOW Shanahan is an improvement over Jim Zorn, and he won't be 4-12 next season, so that's a step in the direction right there.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 6, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Andy Reid has final say on players in Philly how does he do it.

Cowher won a SB with final say on players in Pitts.

Gruden won a SB with final say on players in TB, he also took the sorry a$$ Raiders to the SB with final say on players.

You think Jeff Fisher in Tenn. doesn't have final say on players?

Belichich has final say on everything for the Pats. how does he manage it?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Flounder it's not an idiotic opinion to wonder if Shanny can make it work. He didn't do so well in Denver in the seasons prior to getting fired. In particular, the defensive personnel he had (along with his choices of coordinators) stunk up the joint.

Just sayin...

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"The two things the offenses featured in New England and at UF are speed and accurate passing.

Presently, we have neither."

I wouldn't call Santana Moss, Devin Thomas, and Marko Mitchell slowpokes, but that's just me. Even Fred Davis is as athletic as you get for a TE.

This team has a number of the pieces in place. There's some work to be done, no doubt, but this isn't a completely talent deficient offense.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, what's up for BUGES? I haven't seen any retirement news. Wasn't that supposed to be today?

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Flounder it's not an idiotic opinion to wonder if Shanny can make it work. He didn't do so well in Denver in the seasons prior to getting fired. In particular, the defensive personnel he had (along with his choices of coordinators) stunk up the joint.

Just sayin...

Posted by: mattylight
========================

That's a good point, but Shanahan is SO heavily "an offense guy" that it wouldn't surprise me that the DC we get will have all the personnel responsibilities you would expect the HC to have, except exclusively for the defense.

That is, if we get a strong one like Zimmer who we can trust with that responsibility. If we get Gray or Slowick as DC.... well then I worry just like mattylight about Shanahan's decisions for personnel there.

Posted by: REXskins | January 6, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

You guys can hate Wilbon all you want. I don't think he's always right, and I certainly don't agree with his ST comments, as well as some others.

But in this case, he's 100% correct, like it or not.

And he's never hid the fact hes a Chicago fan and favors them, rationally or not. That doesn't mean he "hates" on other teams. He's just been (un)privileged to view the Skins up and close for the last 25 years and seen the dysfunction first hand.

Skins fans are just used to yelling "hater" at everyone because we receive negative press all the time.

Guess what? We've deserved it, for the last 2 decades.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Don't know much about Shanny's record as a personnel guy, was he that bad? Worse than Cerrato?

If he was in-charge of draft he got some good players in recent years(Clady, Dummerville)

At least give the guy a chance before you say he can't succeed.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

My default stance through zorn/vinny era: "Hope it works out, don't think it will"

My default stance through shanny/allen era "Hope it works out, and I see a logical plan that has the potential to work and will allow me to be caustiously optimistic it will. But hardly shocked if the whole things ends up a clusterBEEP"

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

when did wilbon/carpentar represent all angels?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

ryp, I'm gonna go with ppstr8, and say lets give this some time, like more than 24 hours, and like some actual football decision to be made before we say its just the same old same old....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Siked for Mike.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Siked for Mike.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Skins fans are just used to yelling "hater" at everyone because we receive negative press all the time.

Guess what? We've deserved it, for the last 2 decades.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree Ryp. One would think that with 3 playoff appearances in like 15+ seasons, most fans would treat almost any move the Skins make with a little bit of skepticism. As far as us being a contender under Shanny and Allen, while I'll certainly be hoping for it, I'll actually believe it when I see it.

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

dc, what does this mean, help me out:

"Early this morning, shortly after the team returned from its season-ending loss to the San Diego Chargers at San Diego, Redskins General Manager Bruce Allen finally informed Jim Zorn that he was being fired"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 1:41 PM

"was being fired" ... that's a verb tense in the passive voice. Active voice would be something like "Redskins General Manager Bruce Allen finally informed Jim Zorn that The Owner of the team had fired him."

Posted by: dcsween | January 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

At least give the guy a chance before you say he can't succeed.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 1:59 PM

Go read the Les Carpenter piece above for the chat with Stefan Fatsis. I think he can succeed BUT not if he does it the same way he did in Denver. He has to have learned from his mistakes.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I still blame this all on Danny Snyder I think he hacked ya.
Posted by: alex35332

Hacking Loseable Type? Ha, all you have to do is put up a comment asking JLa where the CD is!

Oops, I've done it again.

Posted by: daggar | January 6, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

dcsweeny busting out the passive voice critique! Love it!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The indication of whether this team is going to be run by the new guys or the existing guy is whether they take a QB with the number 4 pick or whether they take an offensive lineman. If its a QB, The Owner still runs the team. If its a lineman, then the new guys run the team. [If its Eric Berry or Ndomakung Suh, then its a push.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 6, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"Late last night and early this morning, while the team was preparing to announce its hiring of Mike Shanahan, Cindy Boren finally informed Loseable Type that its service was being considered a piece of crap."

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Still, MICHAEL WILBON has been a loser too much over the past 15 years, too dysfunctional in too many ways, too repeatedly stubborn to receive anything close to benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Saying all the right things...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"He didn't do so well in Denver in the seasons prior to getting fired".

Jeezus...why bother even try finding the downside here?

Sure he had some tough later year's in his Bronco tenure. But let's try to see the brighter side.

Aside from finally having a football professional running things, he will probably be better this time.

Spending time within the game, while you're out of the game was very telling to me. Passionate, driven, and on a mission!

Plus, best of all....Vinny and Zorn are gone. Isn't this infinitely better than the last 10 years?

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

dcsweeny busting out the passive voice critique! Love it!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2010 2:05 PM

You know you got nothing when you play the passive voice card.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

JReid: How long are you going to take on coaches?

Shanny: I wanna get to who wants to stay here. And what they can bring to the table. I will take my time.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Bean - Wilbon's not saying he CAN'T succeed; in fact he says "It's certainly in him". He's just saying what most of us (myself included) feel - "I need to see it first". I certainly need to see it first before I get excited.

Better management, better chemistry, better personnel, better offseason moves, better performance, better results.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

dc, good call, because its been reported that Shanny wants his own qb to groom, but I'm sure you'll tell us about how taking a qb means more in jersey sales right??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Andy Reid has final say on players in Philly how does he do it.

Cowher won a SB with final say on players in Pitts.

Gruden won a SB with final say on players in TB, he also took the sorry a$$ Raiders to the SB with final say on players.

You think Jeff Fisher in Tenn. doesn't have final say on players?

Belichich has final say on everything for the Pats. how does he manage it?

Posted by: Flounder21

First of all, final say on players is a VERY LONG way away from way doing all the things an Exec needs to do. No question Shanahan woiuld be the key person in all major decisions, with or without the exec role.

But to your comments. ATL hired the Pats guy (Dimitroff) and he turned that baby around pretty quick. Pioli went to KC.

Gruden won in Tampa mostly with players who were there before he got there.

Cowher was HC, not the exec in charge of ops -- and neither is Fisher.

ZERO question that Shanny would and should have much greater role than Zorn. But reality is that Shanny hasn't been a great personnel guy and that guys who do both jobs are overwhelmingly not as effective as when they focus on one role.

Gibbs, Holmgren and Shanahan are all brilliant coaches who were better when they coached and had someone else run operations

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't buy that Shanahan was a poor talent evaluator...not in the least.

Shanahan brought in Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Tony Scheffler, and Jay Cutler (who, under Shanahan, was one of the most coveted QBs in the league). His offensive lines, though not household names (other than Clady as of now), has always been stellar. And everyone knows about his running backs.

Defensively, he brought in talent as well. He was the guy who drafted Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Trevor Pryce, Elvis Dumervil, Darrent Williams, and Dominique Foxworth. He brought in Champ Bailey.

But sometimes, sh*t happens. Darrent Williams got murdered, Champ Bailey was hurt for a good portion of two years, Foxworth bolted in free agency, Trevor Pryce demanded out, and all of a sudden it looks like Shanahan focuses all his personnel effort on offense.

Sure, he had a couple dud drafts. Every team does from time to time. But overall, his draft talent is on par with the best in the league. I challenge anyone to find a draft class as impressive as this in the past decade:

1 Jay Cutler - Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler - Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall - CentralFlorida
4 Elvis Dumervil - Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon - Akron
5 Chris Kuper - North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger

Some hit, some miss. This guy knows talent.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Come on, Mr. Mayor. Harder questions at the presser with Coach Mike. Ask about Buges, at least, if you're leading with the coaching staff.

Posted by: WorstSeat | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Seen this before too?

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=8518

All of the Post writers are going back over their previous copy. Imagine editing the same copy six times.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Hey, All, I hate to say it, but if you look at BA's comments and the comments of some of the team vets, Cerrato's claim that he built a playoff team for Zorn holds some water. Bleccch.

Posted by: MrChili | January 6, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Shan re: JC--"I'm looking forward to working with him, watch every play and eval...it's going to be a long involved process" or something like that, paraphrased except for the first seven words.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Wilbon's negative slants on everything are as tired as Stephen A Smith screaming into a microphone. The only way he ever smiles or is positive on PTI is if Kornheiser cracks a joke. F Wilbon and his bitter old man routine.

Lets go Shanny(s). Don't keep Gray. Couldn't land the Memphis gig, plays his corners out of the tv screen and they can't catch or tackle in the secondary. Plus he is a liar and not a very smart or clever one at that.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | January 6, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure you'll tell us about how taking a qb means more in jersey sales right??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM

You're a bit confused, old bean:

cork = jersey sales
dcsween = beer prices

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm with sween to the extent that I will be severely disappointed in the franchise if the team spends its #1 pick on a quarterback. That pick would not demonstrate conclusively that Snyder remains in charge (in my opinion), but it would demonstrate that the team remains unwilling to be serious about rebuilding its O line... and I say that no matter what happens in free agency.

Picking up one dude in free agency (a la Derrick Dockery last season) may be a good move in and of itself, but it doesn't constitute rebuilding that unit and stocking it for the future.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

LS, I read the Carpenter stuff.

I guess my question is how bad are the "bad player decisions"

There's bad and then there is B.Lloyd, Sanders, and Archuletta bad.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

"...and say let's give this some time..."


From what I've read, time is all we have.

I don't get how folks went from hating on Zorn, wanting a replacement, then complaining when one arrives.

Maybe this blog should be called, Little Women for all the whining.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Listening right now, man Shanny loves to poke fun at the wife. Must not be planning on getting any tonight.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Look...

We have a real GM and CeRatfink is GONE. Yeah!

Zorn is gone and we have a veteran HC. Yeah!

Greg Blache is retiring. Good Riddance!

Zimmer might be our new DC. Yeah!


Is this the perfect outcome? Maybe/Maybe not. Is it a step in the right direction? I hope so.

Nothing left to do now but get behind the wagon and push!


(looks like that cockroach Gray still may have life. Somebody step on that bug already...)

Posted by: edvar | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse


"Late last night and early this morning, while the team was preparing to announce its hiring of Mike Shanahan, Cindy Boren finally informed Loseable Type that its service was being considered a piece of crap."

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

New poll:

Should Cindy take the aforementioned mallet to Loosable?

O - Yes
O - No

View results.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Memphis, Tenn.: Dear Mr. Fatsis,

I read and enjoyed your book on the Broncos, and was wondering about your thoughts on the relationship between Shanahan and Ted Sundquist. It seems to me, from what I can remember about your book, that they had a bit of a difficult relationship, particularly given the special relationship Shanahan had with Pat Bowlen.

Now again in Washington, Shanahan will be working with a very involved owner, and has negotiated a role that, in my opinion, unwisely infringes on the duties of the Redskins' new general manager. Is this the recipe for disaster that it seems to be?

Stefan Fatsis: Again, this is huge. Will Shanahan respect and consider and trust Allen's input? Or will everything merely be at his service. In Denver, Sundquist gave Mike every bit of information he thought he needed to do his job -- including a daily spredsheet of the team's cash and cap expenditures. As Sundquist says in the book, whether Mike looked at it, he had no idea. But it was there to remind him what the team needed to stay fiscally healthy. Their relationshiip frayed because of some trust issues. So that is something to consider.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

didn't realize that Shan is 2nd in wins among active coaches to Belichick, 146 vs 148.

Shan saying key to aging RBs is offseason work ethic, needs to look at film, commenting would be premature. Interesting contrast to his JC comments.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Hey, All, I hate to say it, but if you look at BA's comments and the comments of some of the team vets, Cerrato's claim that he built a playoff team for Zorn holds some water. Bleccch.

Posted by: MrChili | January 6, 2010 2:12 PM

No, Cerrato said "Super Bowl Roster" not playoff roster. Shanahan could have led that team to a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. Not even Vince Lombardi could have reached the Super Bowl with that bunch.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"Shanahan instead acted as if he never left, traveling to Florida to study Urban Meyer's spread offense."

= Tim Tebow

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Ask him if his last name is Zorn. If he answers no, then it's a step in the right direction for me.

Posted by: mack1 | January 6, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Listening right now, man Shanny loves to poke fun at the wife. Must not be planning on getting any tonight.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM

He will be sleeping in his new office tonight, watching tape.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Options for Franchise QBs are limited...

When you end up at the top of the draft...TAKE ADVANTAGE!!

SHESSH!

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

sounds like we may have seen the end of player outbursts to the media if HC has anything to say about it...

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

moe, I don't get it either....suddenly Shanny can't walk and chew gum...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Dude is gonna rip it up for us. I like the "team attitude" he says about working with Bruce Allen. Sounds genuine to me. Danny is in the crowd too, no Superbowl Trophies on display. Time to turn the page to 2010.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

From what I've read, time is all we have.

I don't get how folks went from hating on Zorn, wanting a replacement, then complaining when one arrives.

Maybe this blog should be called, Little Women for all the whining.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

couldn't agree more. bloggers get 9/10 things they are looking for in a HC and all they do is b*tch about the 1 thing they don't get.

people complaining about Shanny need to take a look around and realize a HC with everything they want doesn't exist or isn't available.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

He will be sleeping in his new office tonight, watching tape.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Better then Zorn's attempts to turn his office into a cool place to hang out and put the bumper pool table in there.

Shanny said he will talk with Zorn btw asking for his assessment of the players... were doomed :P

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

psps23,
I'm not saying he doesn't know talent, but he's maybe not a ringer in that arena.

Owner/Megalomanic - (check)
GM/Cap Guy - (check)
Head Coach/Mastermind - (check)
Player Development/Talent Evaluator - (?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Also sounds like Shan's saying that its Mike and Bruce, it will be like Joe Gibbs and Bobby Bethard's relationship

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

fedor, no trophies?? FANTASTIC...time to move on...put them in the display case and go earn some more.....

weren't the trophies out for every other hc introduction....same old same..wait..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Rock Cartwright can say Bye Bye...No Snitching will be implemented by Shanny

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

sounds like we may have seen the end of player outbursts to the media if HC has anything to say about it...

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM


This is what Stefan Fatsis said in his chat: "He operates more by implied fear: The players are made to understand Mike's rules early on -- that this is the way things are to be done -- and they respect him enough to do that. And if they don't, Mike is not unwilling to cut them."

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Maybe back to Frostburg? I know this is a show, but dude is impressing when asked real questions.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

ls, thats a good thing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Rock Cartwright can say Bye Bye...No Snitching will be implemented by Shanny

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Rock would be fine with this. Gives him more time to work on his bestselling tell all book about the Skins.

Written by J. Reid. With Intro by Suisham.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

someone provide highlights from the presser. what is he saying? who introduced him? structure of the org, contract? everything you can do. thanks

Posted by: Skins2 | January 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Options for Franchise QBs are limited...

When you end up at the top of the draft...TAKE ADVANTAGE!!

SHESSH!

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

4th....what franchise type QB do you see in the upcoming draft?

I don't hear anybody calling Bradford, McCoy, or Clausen the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

I just don't see how you can use a high pick on a QB, when there are AT LEAST a few other holes to fill (O LINE).

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

These scenarios usually come with at least one drastic move to use someone as an example, so who's first to go? Didn't sound too warm to Portis.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Skins2 - The post will have a version pop up soon.....hopefully they don't slant his words...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

skins2, been trying to sum up some of his points re JC, 26, and where training camp will be next year...

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I am listening on the radio, but they said no trophies on display. I am really excited now. This guy knows what he is doing. It's nice to know 2 guys that know what it takes to build a winner are now on our side. This is great. Sorry for the over positive attitude, but it is gonna be better, maybe not right away, but sooner than later.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Shanny was introduced by BA. No surprises...stuff like, "We are going to work hard every day to get better."

Shanny was asked about JC and CP. He was positive about CP and used the same "the best is ahead of him" line, so you can guess that he will be back in 2010 to hold the line while a new QB is groomed. Shanny also talked about how, as players get older, they have to work really hard in the offseason to stay competitive (a slight dig maybe against CP).

Posted by: swowra | January 6, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

weren't the trophies out for every other hc introduction....same old same..wait..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I will be fair to Dan Snyder on this one; He has only done it for 2 coaches Gibbs and Zorn. I checked into it Spurrier just had a big ol skins helmet in front Shotty, I can't even find a picture of a podium there.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

2010 Redskins Opponents

Home

(9-7) Houston Texans
(11-5) Green Bay Packers
(12-4) Minnesota Vikings
(14-2) Indianapolis Colts
(3-13) Tampa Bay Buccaneers
(11-5) Dallas Cowboys
(8-8) New York Giants
(11-5) Philadelphia Eagles

Away

(7-9) Chicago Bears
(2-14) Detroit Lions
(7-9) Jacksonville Jaguars
(8-8) Tennessee Titans
(1-15) St. Louis Rams
(11-5) Dallas Cowboys
(8-8) New York Giants
(11-5) Philadelphia Eagles

Posted by: Sports_Guru | January 6, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I mean Bruce Allen introduced Shanny. Not Snyder, this is monumental.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

My main concern is how well Shanahan's control freak tendencies will square with Snyder's "leadership style." A guy who videotapes his assistants' player meetings probably isn't going to have a lot of patience for babysitting Danny Boy.

Posted by: acoberst1 | January 6, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I think he hit the 3 big questions out of the park. Dan not on the stage, no SB trophies on the stage. My Optimism Quotient went up after watching that.

1) He said he and BA would run the show and noticeably did NOT mention DS.

2) He basically laid down the gauntlet to CP. Show up in shape ready to work, or F off. Wow.

3) JC will get a shot. Not a ringing endorsement, but he could have said "we need great play from the QB position" and are gonna look to get it.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 6, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"Options for Franchise QBs are limited..."

Smart teams don't sit around waiting on a 'savior' quarterback.

They develop a defense, offensive line, a pair of running backs, guys who can catch, and instill fear and discipline in the ranks.

That way, a game manager quarterback with upside--like Jason Campbell--just has a team to lead.

That way, if a franchise quarterback does come along, he can lead the team to salvation knowing he has a defense, special teams, and unity behind him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Hiring Shanahan is a great step in the right direction.

I think an obsessed megalomaniac is the right guy to work in Snyder's organization. It's the counterbalance that is going to be needed against Snydes. And Bruce Allen as a buffer and manager of the organization works fine for me.

I'd rather have a Shanahan type here than a pushover like Zorn or a sycophantic yes-man like Vinny.

Shanny has pedigree and he's only one year out of the game. Shanny won't hesitate to show the Portis's and Haynesworths of the team the underside of his boot.

So far these are all great moves and good decisions in my book.

Kudos to Danny.

Of course, I too am going to be interested in seeing the personnel moves and the product on the field, but all that has happened with the organization so far is all I can ask for.


Wilbon???

Why are we talking about an ESPN/NBA company man who wants to spend his time in Arizona???

Wilbon has sadly entered Sally Jenkins territory as far as Washington DC sportswriters go...

Posted by: p1funk | January 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Peyton MAnning is a once in a generation figure. If the Colts were so worried about replacing their line instead of drafting PManning WTF do you think they'll be now?

And Brady was choosen in the 6th Round, got his shot in his 2nd year due to injury. So Brady and Manning can't be the same.

Bradford is legit and we are not anticipating drafting in the top 20 consistently down the road. If we don't start targeting for along term fixture, then we are doomed to top-10 draft status hell for as long as the eye can see...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Shanny on (paraphrasing)…

Campbell: looking forward to looking at all of his games, best days ahead.

Portis: Unfair to comment, not sure what he does in the offseason, if you don't take the offseason seriously then RBs drop off a CLIFF with age.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I mean Bruce Allen introduced Shanny. Not Snyder, this is monumental.

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse


EXACTLY. and no trophies. the staging was sending a very very loud message "danny gets it".

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 6, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

SkinsfaninKaneohe that is as fair an assessment I have heard of the presser.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

These scenarios usually come with at least one drastic move to use someone as an example, so who's first to go? Didn't sound too warm to Portis.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 6, 2010 2:30 PM

This is from the Fatsis chat:

"Mike is all about having and implementing a very specific plan, from how his teams practice to how they travel to where the fans stand during training camp. No detail is too small. My assumption is that he will bring with him to Ashburn a thick organization manual -- much of which was developed by the late Bill Walsh and that Shanahan learned while he was with the 49ers -- that he will begin installing immediately. When I last talked to him -- before the season -- he mentioned the "100-hour weeks" he would need to graft his system into a new organization. The clock starts now."

I'm guess that Shanahan has a meeting with the players tomorrow, outlines his expectations and their responsibilities, and then the clock starts ticking. If CP does next week what he did this week, then he's not gonna play for Shanahan.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

SHOLD the Colts had passed on MAnning??

Should the Giants has passed on Lil Manning?

Should the Chargers had passed on Rivers?

WTF are y'all drinking??!?!?!! Where the SJK do you expect to do with the QB position....

IQs are going down in the new decade....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

There is a lot to like about Shanahan. He's a brilliant offensive mind. He motivates and prepares his teams well. He is willing to learn from others (hence his tour last year) and understands that little things matter. He is disciplined and will get the organization to be disciplined.

On defense, he needs others to get that right.

On personnel, he's been average. It'll be tougher now that he can't rob Vinny Cerrato every year

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan is at his best identifying weaknesses in other teams and knowing when to exploit them. In Denver he loaded stacks of other teams' game films into his tape machine and stared at the screen for hours, searching for any imperfection that could be used to his advantage. Whenever he saw one, he seized upon it.

Assistants who have watched tape with him describe the experience as humbling. Even men with years of football experience, who fancy themselves experts on the game, have been stunned at how little they seem to know when Shanahan started pointing things out.


where is spurrier when you need him.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Peyton MAnning is a once in a generation figure. If the Colts were so worried about replacing their line instead of drafting PManning WTF do you think they'll be now?

And Brady was choosen in the 6th Round, got his shot in his 2nd year due to injury. So Brady and Manning can't be the same.

Bradford is legit and we are not anticipating drafting in the top 20 consistently down the road. If we don't start targeting for along term fixture, then we are doomed to top-10 draft status hell for as long as the eye can see...

Posted by: 4thFloor

------------------------

Did you really compare Sam Bradford to Peyton Manning?

Really?

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

There are 2 legit QBs you can pick up @ #4.

McCoy and Bradford. Clausen will be da Bust.

You take the right person. Bradford has been a beast since he started playing his redshirt freshman year...Go ask MK12...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Know what was good to hear Shanahan say? That he needs to look at personnel before deciding on an offensive philosophy. This to me means that he won't try to force fit his scheme to the players, but rather maximize the players ability by putting a philosophy in place that allows them to perform at 100%.

Posted by: -swb | January 6, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I think we may be on the road to being a normal NFL run franchise. This is the greatest thing. A bonafied winning head coach. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Posted by: FedorEm | January 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

From what I've read, time is all we have.

I don't get how folks went from hating on Zorn, wanting a replacement, then complaining when one arrives.

Maybe this blog should be called, Little Women for all the whining.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Thank you! Folks on here act like the Skins just hired Rich Kotite. And I keep asking this question but never get an answer: Who would you prefer came in as HC and GM?

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford = Ty Detmer = Noodle-Armed Bust

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Since there has been some talk about the staff being put together... is there any chance Shanny will go after Bobby April (Special Team coach form Buffalo, widely regarded as one of the best in the league), who just voided his contract a couple of days ago?

Seems like a no-brainer to me...we could certainly use some improvement in that area, and it would be a great indicator of who is really in charge now (since Snydley supposedly has a soft spot for Danny Smith for some reason).

Posted by: PDXskin | January 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

4thFloor, I like ya your a good cat, but I don't think we can come out and say Bradford is the next Manning because he has a good shot at being the next Leaf. You have to admit its a gamble.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Did you really compare Sam Bradford to Peyton Manning?

Really?

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:42 PM

Reading is fundamental.

Really.

Peyton MAnning is a ONCE IN A GENERATION PICK. Player. Whatever....

I said Bradford will be legit. Are you a Bradford hater? You can't acknowldege one's accomplishments? He would have been #1 last year. His shoulder injury won't affect his longterm health and in fact can strentghen his arm....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Did you really compare Sam Bradford to Peyton Manning?

Really?

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

He's got an obvious mancrush on Bradford. Just step back and let it play out.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

CP gone.. JC stays.

Shanny said once running backs lack discipline in the offseason then they "fall off a cliff"

HMMM.. who fits that description on this team?.. Running back, lack of discipline, offseason..

Posted by: iHAVEfaith | January 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Cowher was HC, not the exec in charge of ops -- and neither is Fisher.

ZERO question that Shanny would and should have much greater role than Zorn. But reality is that Shanny hasn't been a great personnel guy and that guys who do both jobs are overwhelmingly not as effective as when they focus on one role.

Gibbs, Holmgren and Shanahan are all brilliant coaches who were better when they coached and had someone else run operations

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM |

You are to caught up on titles, Cowher had final say on players that is what Shanny has same thing it doesn't matter what the titale is.

Fisher has final say on players.

Why did you leave Belichich out of your response because he has actually done what you saying can't be done.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

WTF...Please Please show me where I said Sameul Bradford is the Next Peyton Manning??

PLEASE...

Now I know How Clinton Portis feels....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Can we retire the phrase "Wait and See Attitude/Approach" right now?! It's overplayed already.

And I'm looking at the home sched...yeah...that's not going to be fun at all.

Posted by: DCV1 | January 6, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

There are 2 legit QBs you can pick up @ #4.

McCoy and Bradford. Clausen will be da Bust.

You take the right person. Bradford has been a beast since he started playing his redshirt freshman year...Go ask MK12...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:43 PM

No offense but McCoy will never be a consistent starter in this league and none of the QBs are worth a top 10 pick, let alone the 4th overall.

Colt McCoy = Heath Schuler

You're better than that post.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

And the defense is already darned good. But do we know who will coordinate the defense? Will Shanahan want Greg Blache or Jerry Gray to stay or want to (as is his privilege) bring in his own guy to run the defense? If so, they'll start over on that side of the ball after some continuity in the Gregg Williams/Greg Blache style.
From Wilbon column.

Outside of switching to a 3-4...could Williams and Blache be much more different?

When Wilbon says something like this it clouds the good points that he does make.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Thank you! Folks on here act like the Skins just hired Rich Kotite. And I keep asking this question but never get an answer: Who would you prefer came in as HC and GM?

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

No they're not. For those of us not chugging the Kool-Aid, it isn't because Shanny isn't a good coach or b/c Allen isn't a good GM. It's cause we're the Redskins, and 3 playoff appearances in 15+ years tends to make you a little skeptical. Look, IMO, we're miles better with Shanahan and Bruce than with Zorn and Vinny. That alone is significant progress. But all the times I've believed we are finally gonna turn it around have led me to scale back the enthusiasm this time. So I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford = Mr. Hanky

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

4th, just curious, what, if anything, do you think Shanahallen should do about the Redskins' offensive line?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

His shoulder injury won't affect his longterm health and in fact can strentghen his arm....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Your probably right. But we really need to see what happens in the pre-draft evaluations. If he can come out and show that his arm is good, then I am fine with it.

Smartest thing he could do would be to walk up to each coach with a medical record showing his shoulder is 100%

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"I don't hear anybody calling Bradford, McCoy, or Clausen the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady."


Nobody ever said Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were going to be the next John Elway or Dan Marino, either.

You put a big guy with an accurate arm in the best situation and hope he makes a name for himself.

Before he won a title, who was Tom Brady anyways?

Just a sixth round draft pick who went into a great situation.

Before he was drafted, wasn't Peyton Manning just the guy who couldn't beat the Florida Gators and the son of a famous quarterback?

Then he went into a situation where he started out 3-13, there was some patience and good drafting, and now he endorses everything from flat screens to commonsense.

Let Shanahan and Allen create the best situation for whomever they draft.

Hopefully, the situation is great enough to create the next quarterback star.

And I want a star quarterback performing with all the toys and good scheming around him.

Don't we all?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm with WILBON, call me stupid.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse
***********************
Stupid.

Posted by: rickmort | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Don't pretend that QBs are the only position where there is a risk.

Did Andre Smith even play this year?

Missing on an o-lineman hurts just as bad as missing on a QB.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

He's got an obvious mancrush on Bradford. Just step back and let it play out.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 2:48 PM


One last time for all idiots of 2010. Shanny has a Mancrush on Bradford and Bradford to the Skins is ALREADY done like Shanny to the Skins was done LAST OFFSEASON.

Everyone...Please follow along accordingly. I am just saying picking Bradford isn't bad and I actually agree. If it had been Clausen, I would be complaining my a$$ off. Now...Get the F...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

"Can we retire the phrase "Wait and See Attitude/Approach" right now?! It's overplayed already"

good call, lets just use our crystal ball to see what the future holds.....

because I mean, the wait and see approach was COMPLETELY off base with the 2008 draft wasn't it........

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

4th, just curious, what, if anything, do you think Shanahallen should do about the Redskins' offensive line?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM

Fix it.

Next Question.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford = Mr. Hanky

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM |

The South Park turd? I think the sp is Mr. Hankey.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Snyder has heard the fans' discontent and he acted on it. He went out and hired a legit GM and head coach. I do give him the benefit of the doubt that he's at least gonna try to run things differently at Redskin Park. I doubt that Snyder will be totally hands-off in everything, but Shanahan didn't come here to be Snyder's puppet. Props to you Snyder for at least trying to change. We'll see how it works out but at least we now have a fighting chance to win. We had no chance to win with Zorn/Cerrato.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Fix it.

Next Question.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

...how?

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Your probably right. But we really need to see what happens in the pre-draft evaluations. If he can come out and show that his arm is good, then I am fine with it.

Smartest thing he could do would be to walk up to each coach with a medical record showing his shoulder is 100%

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM

Alex...His surgeon is Doctor JAmes Andrews....The same Dr. Andrews that is on the Redskins sidelines EVERY GAME.

They know every inch of what's going on with Bradford now.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"if anything" -- Nate, you really are giving 4th an unconstrained question...wow!

If the comment had come from anyone else I would think you were handing him a rope and chair.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Got it, 4th, thank you.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Unless Sam Bradford can block for JC next year, Russell Okung is a better move at #4.

Posted by: swowra | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm excited that we'll finally have someone in Kyle Shanahan who was a WR coach and pass centric OC, and excelled at it.

I'm excited because he'll be able to evaluate our crop of pass catchers and we can actually trust him to start the right guys in the right places.

That alone could double our meager point totals.

Posted by: REXskins | January 6, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

...how?

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 2:55 PM


Let's see....

..The Draft...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

WTF...Please Please show me where I said Sameul Bradford is the Next Peyton Manning??

PLEASE...

Now I know How Clinton Portis feels....

Posted by: 4thFloor |

--------


No, you're right. You were proclaiming that the Colts were right to select Manning because he was a once-in-a-generation QB, then in the next breath surmise that the Redskins should select Bradford because he is "legit".

No way should any intelligent reader conclude that you were comparing Bradford to Manning. No way.

In other news, we've now dropped to a 2nd grade reading level where implied thought has completely left the blog.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Should the Chargers had passed on Rivers?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:41 PM

They did. They drafted Elisha. Who they then traded to the Giants. But I get your point.

And I won't point out why the Chargers needed a QB...that Ryan Leaf fella, their #2 pick in '98.... You remember him, right. ALL the football punditry was split, virtually 50-50 on Manning vs. Leaf with the 1st pick in the draft.

I'm rambling, and work is getting crazy. There's a point I'm trying to make somewhere.
Ah...Bradford could equal Manning. Or Leaf. Or Carr. Or Rivers. Or Akili Smith. Or McNabb.

But on a team that needs an infusion of talent across the board, a rookie QB ain't the answer.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 6, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

That alone is significant progress. But all the times I've believed we are finally gonna turn it around have led me to scale back the enthusiasm this time. So I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I don't think anybody is screaming SB off the bat. If your old car kept breaking down on the hwy and you replaced it with a better high performance vehicle, you know in the back of your mind there's still the chance it could break down too, but you also know the chances of that happening are alot slimmer. And despite the bad history with your old car, you don't keep reiterating, "Watch my new car break down too". Do you? You tend to take a more positive and enthusiastic approach. And by golly I'm just relieved that the old crappy car is gone!

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Alex...His surgeon is Doctor JAmes Andrews....The same Dr. Andrews that is on the Redskins sidelines EVERY GAME.

They know every inch of what's going on with Bradford now.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM

What about all those confidentiality agreements you sign every time you visit the doc? I think the Redskins only know what Bradford wants them to know, or Dr. Andrews will be practicing medicine in Haiti.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Snyder has heard the fans' discontent and he acted on it. He went out and hired a legit GM and head coach. I do give him the benefit of the doubt that he's at least gonna try to run things differently at Redskin Park. I doubt that Snyder will be totally hands-off in everything, but Shanahan didn't come here to be Snyder's puppet. Props to you Snyder for at least trying to change. We'll see how it works out but at least we now have a fighting chance to win. We had no chance to win with Zorn/Cerrato.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 6, 2010 2:55 PM |

In the WaPo article on the demise of Z they talk about how much time Sny spends in his Ash office. I didn't even know he had an Ash office. For things to work right he needs to decamp Ash complete and let Shan and Al work alone by themselves.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Why did you leave Belichich out of your response because he has actually done what you saying can't be done.

Posted by: Flounder21

I included the Pats execs in my comments, Pioli and Dimitroff. Dimitroff turned ATL around on a dime -- but he isn't the HC, just the guy in charge.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Let's see....

..The Draft...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

But not with our 1st round pick, right?

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"...what, if anything, do you think Shanahallen should do about the Redskins' offensive line?"


Let's assume a quarterback is the number 4 pick.

Cross Okung off your wish list, folks.

We have a high 2nd round pick.

Who is the best tackle prospect left after Okung?

That guy gets to be our right tackle.

Pick 4 is going to be a right guard who can actually play.

Maybe you resign L Jones and hope he and Dock hold up the left side.

S Heyer is a back up or on the street selling his deadlocks.

M Williams is not an NFL quality linemen, deal with it.

C Rabach will be replaced by E Williams.

Two rookie starting linemen are just as good as the two bad veterens who started there this year.

I bet this is what happens.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 6, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Don't pretend that QBs are the only position where there is a risk.

Did Andre Smith even play this year?

Missing on an o-lineman hurts just as bad as missing on a QB.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Not really:

It hurts about 7-8 million dollars and 1 contract year less to miss on a top 10 tackle than a top 10 QB.

Missing on a tackle is much rarer than missing on a QB.

A busted left tackle can move to right tackle and if that doesn't work out he can move to guard. A busted QB is dead weight.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 6, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Alex...His surgeon is Doctor JAmes Andrews....The same Dr. Andrews that is on the Redskins sidelines EVERY GAME.

They know every inch of what's going on with Bradford now.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:56 PM

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

HIPPA guidelines, They would need to evaluate Bradford's shoulder w/ a DIFFERENT doc. Unless Dr. Andrew's would like to lose his medical license.

You're stock is falling faster today than Colt McCoy's.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

The press conference was great I hope they go away for camp, I also hope Shanny gets a indoor facility at the park. I don't care about practicing in the elements, every team in the league has a indoor facility it helps.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Sam Bradford = Mr. Hanky

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 2:50 PM |

The South Park turd? I think the sp is Mr. Hankey.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse


WOW! I just got corrected for misspelling the name of a Cartoon Poop Character. Tough crowd.

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

How can you fix the line in the draft and take Bradford at 4? The guy got concussed in a big game against Texas Tech, never took snaps from center and only had the one great season where his line was awesome and he never got touched. Until the champ game against Florida where he looked pretty average. Along with the shoulder injury. Dude seems injury prone.

Draft for the line.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | January 6, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Reading the Carpenter article, it sounds like this situation has the potential to play into Shanahan's worst instincts.

Shanahan the coach can overcome Shanahan the personnel guy. But it feels like 2 steps forward in the HC area and 1/2 step to somewhere unknown in the exec area

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

nterview up on the Texans website with our new OC, Kyle Shanahan, about the move to Washington.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=3909

Posted by: farstriker | January 6, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

TRADE DOWN, TRADE DOWN, TRADE DOWN

Posted by: CBT2 | January 6, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

4th... while I agree that you shouldn't pass on a franchis QB if you feel strongly you've got a shot at the real deal (ala Manning, Ryan, Rivers, etc), but I don't get your love for Bradford and your hate for Clausen? (yes he played at ND, but you have to forgive him for that - are you a Big 12 guy by any chance?).

If we want Bradford or McCoy, we would still be able to pick up at least one of them up with our 2nd round pick, and take an OT or trade back with our #4 overall.

Posted by: PDXskin | January 6, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Wrong, wrong, wrong...

HIPPA guidelines, They would need to evaluate Bradford's shoulder w/ a DIFFERENT doc. Unless Dr. Andrew's would like to lose his medical license.

You're stock is falling faster today than Colt McCoy's.


Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 3:02 PM

This is the NFL. F HIPPA is their motto...The REdskins pay Dr. Andrews more than bradford's health insurance does.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

psps23,
I'm not saying he doesn't know talent, but he's maybe not a ringer in that arena.

Owner/Megalomanic - (check)
GM/Cap Guy - (check)
Head Coach/Mastermind - (check)
Player Development/Talent Evaluator - (?)


Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse
Player Development/Talent Evaluator - In Morocco we trust...I hope. Still haven't heard what his status is to be.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"Missing on a tackle is much rarer than missing on a QB."

Really? Don't have the numbers but I am almost certain that historically more tackles are drafted in the 1st round than qbs.

QBs is the more high profile position so you probably notice more often when a QB turns out to be a bust.

BMW was a 1st round tackle right? How's he working out?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Don't pretend that QBs are the only position where there is a risk.

Did Andre Smith even play this year?

Missing on an o-lineman hurts just as bad as missing on a QB.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Not really:

It hurts about 7-8 million dollars and 1 contract year less to miss on a top 10 tackle than a top 10 QB.

Missing on a tackle is much rarer than missing on a QB.

A busted left tackle can move to right tackle and if that doesn't work out he can move to guard. A busted QB is dead weight.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17

The hit rate on taking an OL near the top of the draft is much higher than it is for QB -- of course nothing is risk free.

Shanahan and Allen don't seem to have Cerrato's disease (an aversion to selecting linemen at or near the top of the draft, and then acting like a rat).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

TRADE DOWN, TRADE DOWN, TRADE DOWN

Posted by: CBT2 | January 6, 2010 3:06 PM

WITH WHO? WITH WHO? WITH WHO?

When was the last time any NFL team was able to trade down with one of the top four picks? Doesn't happen, Winkie. No one wants to trade up to #4. We've got the #4 pick and we're stuck with the #4 pick.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

No, you're right. You were proclaiming that the Colts were right to select Manning because he was a once-in-a-generation QB, then in the next breath surmise that the Redskins should select Bradford because he is "legit".

No way should any intelligent reader conclude that you were comparing Bradford to Manning. No way.

In other news, we've now dropped to a 2nd grade reading level where implied thought has completely left the blog.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 2:58 PM


Dude....History tells us they were right on MAnning. And now history is telling us this is a once in a genaration QB.

How does me saying Bradford is 'legit' go to BRadford is the next Peyton Manning??

You can't just jump the bridge like that. 2nd grade must have been the grade you skipped, because you are right, that's when they taught it.

(Game. Set. Match.)

Which hater wants it next?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

If we don't start targeting for along term fixture, then we are doomed to top-10 draft status hell for as long as the eye can see...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

How about a long term fixture at LT or RT first?

So you want to draft a QB to either get killed or stashed on the bench until they find an O Line?

Nobody called Peyton Manning a franchise QB when he was drafted. At the time of that draft, half the country was split on whether Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning should go first. It's always a guessing game picking a QB.

Picking O Line requires less guesswork and is this team's case, is way more of a need area than QB.

And don't try comingling your comments getting all twisted like CP. Your ADD meds are letting you down.


Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I understand the whole 15 years of frustration thing, but it sounds like you can’t get on board until they start winning games.

So here’s a question for all of the “wait and see” folks……how long will you wait and see before you jump back on the bandwagon? Yeah, I said it.

Vinny fired – check
Zorn fired – check
Real GM – check
Legitimate head coach – check
Danny ain’t selling the team.

It’s real easy to say that this won’t work (and you can say you were right all along; congrats to you)….the “odds” are that they won’t win a SB with this guy. You really have to beat the odds to win the big one. there are only 26 men who have ever coached a team to win the Super Bowl, and only 4 of them are still coaching. But guess what….one of them is now our coach. Get on board frontrunners! The bandwagon is ROLLING!!!!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 6, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Should the Chargers had passed on Rivers?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:41 PM |

The way it looks now, even though the Bolts wanted Man and got "stuck" with Riv, they got the better part of the deal anyway.

Manning = accidental SB winner

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Ya, and I am not gonna say any names or mention any teams here but I know stories about one of these great surgeons NFL teams higher, I'll put it this way. I would not use em.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

WOW! I just got corrected for misspelling the name of a Cartoon Poop Character. Tough crowd.

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 3:03 PM |

Most names we don't give a shti how they are spelled but when it comes to turds we draw the line.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

4th, DDockett said he's itching to pancake you AGAIN.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Shananhan must go..Fire Shanahan...Snyder Rules!

Posted by: SA-Town | January 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Ah...Bradford could equal Manning. Or Leaf. Or Carr. Or Rivers. Or Akili Smith. Or McNabb.

But on a team that needs an infusion of talent across the board, a rookie QB ain't the answer.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 6, 2010 2:58 PM

Atlanta needed a lot of talent, but they selected MAtt Ryan anyway? Should they have skipped over him at looked at their line or receiving corp, who were bust up to that point?

We needed a SAM more than a light DE, but we picked the light DE anyway instead of the future Def ROY.

People act like there is ONLY one pick in this whole draft......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

BMW was a 1st round tackle right? How's he working out?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Still in the league, moved to OG last time I checked. You actually proved PAskins point perfectly.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Most names we don't give a shti how they are spelled but when it comes to turds we draw the line.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:15 PM |

I mean they're turds for Chrissakes, we have to give a shti.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Interview up on the Texans website with our new OC, Kyle Shanahan, about the move to Washington.

Posted by: farstriker | January 6, 2010 3:06 PM

Zorn's probably flying down to Houston right now to interview for OC.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Atlanta needed a lot of talent, but they selected MAtt Ryan anyway? Should they have skipped over him at looked at their line or receiving corp, who were bust up to that point?

We needed a SAM more than a light DE, but we picked the light DE anyway instead of the future Def ROY.

People act like there is ONLY one pick in this whole draft......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Being an ATL native, I can tell you that their O line was nowhere near as bad as the Skins were.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Ughh, dlhaze, let's not start the "bandwagon" thing here, OK?

There is a difference between cheering for your favorite team and debating certain personnel, FO, or coaching moves.

Posted by: mattylight | January 6, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

4th....what franchise type QB do you see in the upcoming draft?

I don't hear anybody calling Bradford, McCoy, or Clausen the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

I just don't see how you can use a high pick on a QB, when there are AT LEAST a few other holes to fill (O LINE).


Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse
I agree, ksquare. We went trhough this last year in the draft. I love Orakpo, but we would have done much better if we had drafted MOher.

With the #4 pick, we should be able to take Okung. He might be the only rated OT that is worthy of #4 pick. If he is taken, we should try to trade back to later in the 1st round and take highest rated OT. Only if Okung in gone and we can't get value for our #4, we take best available...Suh?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Still in the league, moved to OG last time I checked. You actually proved PAskins point perfectly.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

a top 10 pick turned into an OG for one of the worst lines in football. Sorry, I'm not impressed and I don't think that proves anything.

Anyways my point was nothing is risk free. Okung isn't a lock to do anything and neither is Bradford.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Most names we don't give a shti how they are spelled but when it comes to turds we draw the line.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:15 PM |

I mean they're turds for Chrissakes, we have to give a shti.

Posted by: LibertyValence | January 6, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse


For the Record, Mr Hankey is the Christmas POO not TURD, it like calling a SHIITE a KURD....sort of.

Posted by: filmchis | January 6, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

as much as i hate to admit it claussen looks like a real deal NFL QB. and LH will rember what i said about brady quin. hate that dude and hated claussen too until i saw him play against michigan. he lost that game but he brought ND back in the 4th quarter to tie it like 1 minute to go but the ND D couldn't hold 'em.

just saying looks like he has what it takes to be an NFL QB.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 6, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Eric Berry at FS and Dirty30 at SS would be a thing of beauty.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: swowra | January 6, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I’m revving it it up matty! Where’s Kornheiser? VRRROOOOOOOOM!!!!!!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 6, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

This jackas better be good. 1 playoff win in the last 10 years?

I'd give Zorn the benefit of the doubt on being able to accomplish that feat.

And so much for a real GM. Looks like Allen is getting paid to do what, exactly?

Oh, brother.

Posted by: Thinker_ | January 6, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Atlanta needed a lot of talent, but they selected MAtt Ryan anyway? Should they have skipped over him at looked at their line or receiving corp, who were bust up to that point?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Being an ATL native, I can tell you that their O line was nowhere near as bad as the Skins were.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Care to try another angle 4th?

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"You can't just jump the bridge like that. 2nd grade must have been the grade you skipped, because you are right, that's when they taught it."

Hence me being right. Apparently we ARE back to a 2nd grade level. You learn to theorize, analyze, and conclude a little later on in schooling.

In 1997, the Rams selected Orlando Pace #1 overall, despite not having a QB. He was a once-in-a-generation tackle, and two years later, they were the highest scoring offense in the history of the league, with a Super Bowl to show for it.

Russel Okung is legit. You don't pass up a franchise tackle when you have the need for it.

And don't worry 4th, I'm not comparing Okung to Orlando Pace. Nope, not one bit.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I think Ryan Mallet will be the best QB drafted over the next few years, but we are not going to be in the top 5 next year to draft him.

Bruce Cambell is another top 10 pick.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Shanny sounded like he's inclined to keep JC for at least this year.

"You can definitely win with Jason Campbell" I think he said

and

"You can design an offense around your qb's strengths, that's what coaching is about."

something Zorn never understood

Posted by: divi3 | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

So, Bradford at #4 overall, and then for the Oline, "fix it." Understood.

Fire Mike Shanahan! Hire 4thFloor!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

saw bradford against Fl i think last year? he looked shell shocked, and his demeanor was too much like JC's....

Posted by: dealer1 | January 6, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Peyton MAnning is a once in a generation figure. If the Colts were so worried about replacing their line instead of drafting PManning WTF do you think they'll be now?

And Brady was choosen in the 6th Round, got his shot in his 2nd year due to injury. So Brady and Manning can't be the same.

Bradford is legit and we are not anticipating drafting in the top 20 consistently down the road. If we don't start targeting for along term fixture, then we are doomed to top-10 draft status hell for as long as the eye can see...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

No, I disagree. I think MistaMoe said it right at 2:37 above. Savior QB's dont come along very often. Better to build OL, get tandem rb's, so running game works. Then play-action works. And JC can play that game. He has demonstrated numerous times in the last 2 years that he can make the plays when given time.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

PSP - Are you saying Okung is "a once-in-a-generation tackle"?

Yes? Or No?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm not an easy person to sway, but I think this hard-headed mo'fo-ing bama 4th, may have a point.

But do they have to get Bradford? Who's coming out next year?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Bruce Cambell is another top 10 pick.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM

Okung/Davis/Campbell are the 3 that should go in the top 10.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

The problem with getting Shanny the coach is that Shanny the personnel guy comes trotting merrily along. Hopefully, he learned something from his last few years in Denver, where he made a lot of bad personnel decisions, apparently didn't listen to his scouts, and (according to the Les Carpenter article) fractured relationships within the Denver front office. He did seem to say during today's presser that, although he would have final say on personnel matters, others would have meaningful imput as well.

And yes, I totally get people having a wait-and-see attitude about the 'Skins' recent moves. Too often, we've "won" the offseason with flashy hires or personnel moves, only to be subjected to the same ol' crapola once the season starts. So, although I am hopeful, the team's long-term prospects hinge on the quality of its personnel decisions. We'll see in time how much they've improved in that area.

Posted by: rbpalmer | January 6, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I've got the data on Shanny's drafts from 2000-2008 and compared it to the benchmark group (jints, Pats, Colts and Steelers).

I used picks in rounds 1-5 (early and mid) and compiled them by position. Bruce Allen's conformed very closely to the proportions of the benchmark group, Shanny, not quite as close.

Shanny's drafts are in column 1, the benchmark group in column 2

QB 02% -- 05%
OL 16% -- 16%
WR 18% -- 09%
TE 02% -- 08%
RB 10% -- 05%

DL 23% -- 16%
LB 06% -- 15%
DB 21% -- 24%

Tm 02% -- 02%

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 6, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I think Ryan Mallet will be the best QB drafted over the next few years, but we are not going to be in the top 5 next year to draft him.

Bruce Cambell is another top 10 pick.

Posted by: 4thFloor


The Jets weren't and they drafted Sanchez. They went from 19th to 5th.

It can be done.

I say if they can wait until next year they should do so. Use this year to draft along the o-line and and get a RB and OLB.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 6, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, and they still took an OT in the first round after Ryan too..

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Know what was good to hear Shanahan say? That he needs to look at personnel before deciding on an offensive philosophy. This to me means that he won't try to force fit his scheme to the players, but rather maximize the players ability by putting a philosophy in place that allows them to perform at 100%.

Posted by: -swb | January 6, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm really glad to hear that. VC and JZ took the opposite approach, deciding on West Coast offense, then trying to make players fit into it. That was always a weakness of JZ. Great guy, but too stubborn to change.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

No 4th, I'm saying Okung is legit. How could you surmise that I was implying Okung was a once-in-a-generation tackle without me explicitly spelling it out?

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

But do they have to get Bradford? Who's coming out next year?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Jake Locker at Washington was rated among the top of the this year's class, but decided to return for his senior year next year. He may be worth a look next year. Barkley from USC may be ready.

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Silly 4th, he means well.....

Don't you people know his MO....he sprout semi-dumb but semi-plausible "outside the box" opinions and then calls those that disagree "haters"....

When he is wrong he spins, when he loses its excuses (ahem 0-2 against eventual ri fANTASY cHAMP...me!) and when he is RIGHT (Zorn, how good Cushing will be) he chest bumps like Laron after stopping a fullback screen on 1st & 10.

He is the RI version of CNBC's Jim Cramer...just right enough to not be laughed out of the room, but wrong enough to lose your savings account.

but he is lovable so let him do his thing....

book it, championship...IDIOTS...and all that.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

I say if they can wait until next year they should do so. Use this year to draft along the o-line and and get a RB and OLB.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 6, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Spot on Red. Couldn't agree more.

Now can you help out 4th....he's stubborn and barely holding onto his weakazz QB arugment.

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

PSP - Are you saying Okung is "a once-in-a-generation tackle"?

Yes? Or No?


Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

That's not what he's saying. Okung is what is known as an elite prospect. He's almost guaranteed to work out. That's why he is a top pick and worthy of the #4 overall pick. There are no questions about him. He handled von miller and brian orakpo very well. He has the proper height and strength. His technique is good in pass pro and run blocking. He has no injury history.

Now, let's look at Bradford. He has little time under center, has an injury history, didn't play well vs. quality opponenets, and has limited arm strength. He is not considered an elite prospect and is not worthy of a top 5 pick. I'd rate him at around #20.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Jake Locker at Washington was rated among the top of the this year's class, but decided to return for his senior year next year. He may be worth a look next year. Barkley from USC may be ready.

Posted by: ksquare | January 6, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

With another yr under his belt, Christian Ponder might be a darkhorse candidate too. I think Mallet needs to come back for one more yr though..and I'm not sure about dude from Central Michigan, Levoure, not sure if he's coming out or not

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

In 1997, the Rams selected Orlando Pace #1 overall, despite not having a QB. He was a once-in-a-generation tackle, and two years later, they were the highest scoring offense in the history of the league, with a Super Bowl to show for it.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 3:26 PM

Wow...HAlf truths can go long way up here on Redskins Insider....

MAYBE they didn't draft a QB BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ANY QBs to DRAFT WITH THE #1 PICK?

Drunkenmiller was the 1st QB drafted @ #26.

And LOOKY HERE Walter Jones, A BETTER LT IMHO, was drafted behind him @ #6.

AAANND - Mike Shanahan got an UNDFAFTED ROOKIE to become a starter in this draft - Matt Lepsis.

"Lepsis was signed by the Denver Broncos as an undrafted free agent in 1997. He did not miss an offensive snap on a 2004 line that set a franchise record by allowing only 15 sacks, shattering the previous best of 22 sacks set in 1971, to rank third in the NFL.

"

Give me a break....

Which hater wants their parade rained on NEXT??

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

People act like there is ONLY one pick in this whole draft......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:16 PM

Correct we have 5 picks and an upcoming FA pool that will be nothing but 30 yr old players.

You faint interest in Clausen, Bradford, etc and then you trade back and collect picks.

L-S will say that it rarely happens but it's happened 4x in the last 10 years.

It's not an impossibility.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

PSP - Are you saying Okung is "a once-in-a-generation tackle"?

Yes? Or No?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------

who cares? You are arguing QB versus Tackle, and in this draft, Okung seems to be the better prospect and match our needs more so than any of the QBs available.

So, the point is, to risk flogging a horse - which, if not already dead, is in mortal danger of expiring - that it is perfectly ok to take the player which you think is going to improve your roster the most.

Is Bradford or Clausen going to improve this roster more than an Okung? I think not.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 6, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

4th, o-line, by far, surpasses every need this team has. Manning, as great as he is, only has one Super Bowl. Marino and Kelly, two of the greatest to ever play, have none. Football is the ultimate team game and a great team can win with an avg to good QB. A great QB can't win jack sjk with an avg to good team.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 6, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Chriss LaRRy - A hater is one that goes below the belt....

If you haven't gone below the belt with me, I respect you. Once it gets passed...the rest is his-tory...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

And I think Clausen will be better than Bradford.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 6, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Drafting a QB is always a gamble, but most franchise QBs are drafted early in the 1st Round, so it's hard to argue with using the 4th pick on a QB.

I'm guessing that Shanahan knows how to evaluate a QB's NFL suitability better than anyone here, so I'm not terribly inclined to second-guess him on that one.

Obviously OL has to be an overall priority in the draft and FA this year, but it's hardly doomsday if they don't take an OL in the 1st round.

Posted by: acoberst1 | January 6, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

That bama 4th is not swaying from his mancrush on Bradford.

You have to think that they could never win the Campbell as the QB.

I think the guy just needs a real offensive line blocking for him. Not some patchwork joint.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 6, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't pretend that QBs are the only position where there is a risk.

Did Andre Smith even play this year?

Missing on an o-lineman hurts just as bad as missing on a QB.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 6, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse
True, injuries can happen to anyone. That's just a risk of football. But there are a lot more busts for QB's taken in the top 5 picks than there have been OT's taken in the top 5 picks. Skins picks in top 5... Heath Shuler...Chris Samuels.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

L-S will say that it rarely happens but it's happened 4x in the last 10 years.

It's not an impossibility.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 6, 2010 3:40 PM

It's happened zero times in the last five years. Zero. Nada. etc.

It's not impossible, but it's also not a strategy or a plan but a stroke of good luck.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Give me a break....

Which hater wants their parade rained on NEXT??

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse
I'm still waiting on you to "break me down" regarding your comparison of the Falcons and Skins drafting a QB.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

blip blip

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

With another yr under his belt, Christian Ponder might be a darkhorse candidate too. I think Mallet needs to come back for one more yr though..and I'm not sure about dude from Central Michigan, Levoure, not sure if he's coming out or not

Posted by: ga8085 | January 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I like Ponder a lot. He is a very quick decision maker and he is accurate on those quick passes. Arm strength is an issue with him but in another year who knows. I also like Pat Devlin. I think he could be a potential sleeper pick. I'd just rather have the line fixed before trying to develop a QB. I'd rather have him wokring on his timing with his receivers than running for his life.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Learn/cL/Everone else...stop jumping on me...

Shanny was a done deal last offseason.

Bradford was done deal week 16....

Now...with those being the FACTS...discuss..

I say, I ain't mad at them and that'll work for me.

It won't work for you you say? I'm fine with that?

We HAVE to get OKung? I respectfully disagree.

Now...let's start over....I'm done..

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

For the record (and I said this days ago as Shanahan's hiring became imminent), I personally believe that if Shanahan were to select a QB early on, it will be tough to argue against it. If he believes a QB will fit his system, chances are that QB actually will. Whether it's Clausen, Bradford, or nobody, Shanahan knows QBs arguably better than anyone else in the league. As long as Shanahan is selecting the offensive talent (which he will), I'm cool with whatever direction he goes in.

But what I'm not going to sit here and say is that because the Colts took Manning 12 years ago #1 overall, the Skins should take a QB in the top 5 to emulate that.

Top 10 passer ratings from this season:

Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Tom Brady
Kurt Warner

TWO were top 5 draft picks. Two. Six weren't even drafted in the first round. Your standing on thin ice if you believe you need to select a top 5 QB to get a 'franchise' guy in this league.

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Campbell say last year he wanted to be traded if the Skins drafted Sanchez?? So why should he want anything different this year? I mean can anyone explain why Campbell will want to be QB for one year.. having to learn a new system knowing he will have to learn another one when he is somewhere else in 2011. And why to get the crap kicked out of him again with pretty much the same OL he had this year so the QB of the future can stay heathly and have time to learn??? Oh and don't you think Campbell will want a long term contract for starting QB wages??? Why would the Skins pay Campbell that if he is only meant to be a place holder for the NEW QB for a year??? Look Campbell time here is DONE!!! He had 5 years but it didn't work out. His win loss record is terrible, there are questions about his reading defenses, throwing deep and stepping up in the clutch.. Heck his leadership is even questioned by his teammates. Time to go JC.. good luck in Cleveland or Oakland or whatever land you end up in...

Posted by: sovine08 | January 6, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

dc, good call, because its been reported that Shanny wants his own qb to groom, but I'm sure you'll tell us about how taking a qb means more in jersey sales right??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 6, 2010 2:10 PM

I clipped this for pasting and responding, but decided to read the stuff in btwn ... which was good b/c it confirmed my 180 degree disagreement with 4th Floor.

At #4, I would be forgiving and call it a push if the team picked, wait for it, Clausen. Its McCoy and Bradford who are the no way Top Ten QBs in my eyes. After Clausen, if Shanahan (and The Owner frankly) wants a QB to groom, then get a bigger guy who actually takes snaps under center and not exclusively in a spread offense. [Blah blah blah, I read about Shanahan going down to Florida to study Urban Meyer's spread offense too ... I'm not buying it.] Which means they draft smart and get a legitimate Top Ten pick ... and there are 2-3 offensive tackles there ... where Okung (who I do think has peaked) or the guy from Rutgers. Wait for the groomable QB till Pike or Mallett come around. Culter was not the top QB in that draft, he was the third to go (after Vince 'Finally Not Crazy' Young and Matt 'Who?' Leinart). All three of those guys, however, lined up (well, would have been lining up) behind serious offensive lines. Skins aren't there yet. [As a general principle, I despise Notre Dame, so it hurts me to concede Jimmy Clausen is the best QB available, esp. after the dookie of a college career as he's had, but I just think that spread offenses inflate the perceived performance of QBs compared to what they're going to face with defensive linemen in the NFL.] Its not about the jerseys, its about the stupid in mis-spending a top ten pick, esp. at a position that is going to be more expensive to pay (compared to value received, at least in the first three years) compared to other positions.

Posted by: dcsween | January 6, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

When was the last time any NFL team was able to trade down with one of the top four picks? Doesn't happen, Winkie. No one wants to trade up to #4. We've got the #4 pick and we're stuck with the #4 pick.

Posted by: League-Source | January 6, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse
GEnerrally true, but if someone is really sold on a draftee, and they fall to #4, and #5 team is salivating over that player, there could be teams that jump up to #4 pick. Especially if some team has a certain QB, or Suh, or Okung, and that player drops to us.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 6, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I really think Allennnahan* has what it takes to make the Offense work next year. I predict 8-8 or better given the difficult schedule.

*TM on the four N version.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 6, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Rebuilding the Washington Redskins will require two drafts at least. But now we know that the guys (or guy) doing the drafting ain't that good at it. Mixed bag results, Snyder will lose patience, re-assert himself, hire new coach, etc. Rinse, repeat. Snyder should have found someone by now who is very very good at drafting and team-building and put that person in charge of the operation. Not gonna happen now.

Guess I'm with Wilbon on this.

Posted by: Pepper5 | January 6, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

It will be Shanahan's challenge to make the Redskins shine this season.

Tracy, Status Now

Posted by: VelocityFulfillment | January 6, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter what they do, if they don't build the line with YOUNG players they are destined to loose again. I know Denver scores alot of points, but their offensive lines were top notch, and they were good enough to open them zone runnning lanes for the backs.

Posted by: impervious99 | January 6, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter what they do, if they don't build the line with YOUNG players they are destined to loose again. I know Denver scores alot of points, but their offensive lines were top notch, and they were good enough to open them zone runnning lanes for the backs.

Posted by: impervious99 | January 6, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

If they were smart. With that 4th pick, unless there is a dynamite offenive lineman, they should trade down no lower than 10 and get atleast 2-3 picks. two this year and atleast one next year, probably in the first round.

Eitherway they would have a good pick next year. If they suck, they will have two high 1st round picks, if they are good, they still have 2 1st's in 2011.

If Jason is alright then fine, now next year you dont have to get a qb, if he sucks now you have a high pick to get one next year (the stanford or washington qb)...and u build the oline at the same time.

Posted by: impervious99 | January 6, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Wilbon and all of the WP staffs so called sports reporters are complete D-Bags and Haters of anything REDSKINS. why is that? maybe cause danny told them all to f-off a while back. Why did danny tell them to f- off? Because they are a bunch of D-BAGS!!!

Posted by: SkinEm1 | January 6, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

skinEm1 hit the nail on the head concerning WP writers, but getting back to the QB issue, Shanahan says he's going to look at every game and every play Campbell had. Unless someone goes in a splices some old Elway tape in there; there's no way he's going to cast his lot with JC. If the price is right, he may hang on to him until a young replacement is ready. I'm afraid to doomday for Colt as well, as colt's style reminds me a little of Plummer and Shanahan has been there and done that.

Posted by: elderdave1 | January 6, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

The only reason I am taking a wait and see mentality is because I don't trust Snyder won't interfere and/or become buddies with the players Shanahan needs to let go! If Snyder doesn't meddle - we go to a Superbowl and we will see progress along the way. ELEVEN Years have made that a BIG IF for Dannyboy. No Superbowl trophies out during Shanahan press conference and Dannyboy sitting in the front row instead of up on the podium shows me something. I just wish I could trust him to stay this way.

Posted by: PinotNoir | January 6, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

When was the last time Wilbon ever said anything at least decent about the Skins. The only tome he is positive is if he is kissing up to someone. Thats a fact,

Posted by: tjzukoski | January 6, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

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