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Mike Williams out; Doughty will try to play

Coach Jim Zorn, on the Monday night injuries:

Mike Williams "actually tore a muscle in the lower foot that attaches to his toe, so he will be out" Sunday against San Diego.

Reed Doughty has "a high ankle sprain. He's never had, in his words, a high ankle sprain before and he's going to try to fight to play in this game. He'll probably be doubtful."

Devin Thomas did "some footwork drills. We're going to try to get him into practice this week."

Rocky McIntosh has "some muscle spasms in his back and he's better today. We'll try to work him into practice this week."

Stephon Heyer's right patellar tendon was irritated. He'd been having problems with his left knee; they'll try to work him this week and get him on the field Sunday.

Gray not available today

Secondary coach Jerry Gray will not be made available to reporters until his weekly media session Thursday. He said following Sunday's loss to the Cowboys that he planned to address reporters today about speculation and news reports that he has interviewed for the Redskins' head coaching job. A team spokesman said today no such media availability would take place.

By Rick Maese  |  December 28, 2009; 12:27 PM ET
 
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Next: Plan to replace Williams not yet set

Comments

I also cosign Etrod' rant.

Norv Turner will kill us next week. Everyone should be open to being cut/traded. Save for Sleepy!

Chris Coooooley for a 2nd and a 5th!

They asked JZ how does he judge his offense 2 years in?

JZ: The scheme doesn't match the output.

(WTF!!?!?!?!?!? Yes MoFo We KNOW THIS)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

JZ: Watching the video, I didn't have any kind of depression.


(Do I sense a disconnect with our HC? His perception is different than what reality is)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

JZ: If I were San Diego and going into the playoffs, I would prob rest some starters.


(Huh?!!? WTF? Playoffs??!! Zorn and Playoffs are oil and water!)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

JZ: This has been a great experince! NOt fun, but a great experince.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cindy we need a new poll!

If I'm Danny what do I do?

( ) Fire Zorn in locker room after game and hand him coach ticket home
( ) Fire Zorn on plan ride home and make him sit in that crappy jump seat
( ) Box all of Zorn's stuff up and fire him when buses pull into Redskins Park
( ) Sleep on it and let Bruce fire him Monday morning, because Bruce is really in charge now

Posted by: noonefromtampa | December 28, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see JC behind a functional NFL line... not dominating, merely functional... with a good quality RB (or committee of Rbs)...not dominating, merely quality... and DT11, MK12, SM89(slot) with Marko in the mix along with CC and/or FD.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | December 28, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse


You got to see JC17 behind a functional line with a good running game all last year.

The Oline pass protection was just fine for the first 4 games of the season this year. (It wasn't until game 5 and Samuels injury that the Oline went to total crap). JC17 still sucked and we went 2-2.

They falshed a stat last night that 77% of JC17's passes this year have gone less than 10 yards from the LOS - last place in the NFL. I know the knee-jerk response is "he doesn't have time to look downfield". And I know he doesn't have alot of time, but when he does have time he also is too chicken to pull the trigger and checks down. Or he gets flustered by the defense and checks down.

At one point last night Collinsworth was killing JC17 after he took a sack. The popular thing to do would be to blame th Oline, but someone knowledgeable like Collinsworth was pointing out that JC17 was supposed to execute a 3-step drop and get rid of the ball. Instead he hesitated, held onto the ball and got crushed by the pass-rush. I wonder how many times that's happened this year? When the protection schemes call for short drops and quick passes it is on the QB to get the ball out. Period.

HE'S JUST NOT A VERY GOOD QB.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Here's my one sentence.

Jason Campbell does not have the pocket awareness, quick reads, or game management skills to take the Washington Redskins to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 28, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"Tom Brady does not have the pocket awareness, quick reads, or game management skills to take the Washington Redskins to the Super Bowl."

"Donovan McNabb does not have the pocket awareness, quick reads, or game management skills to take the Washington Redskins to the Super Bowl."

"Kurt Warner does not have the pocket awareness, quick reads, or game management skills to take the Washington Redskins to the Super Bowl."

What you're saying about Campbell has been said about all those guys. And those QBs were not rookies when these things were said about them!!!

Not everyone can have Peyton Manning as their starting QB -- and Manning wouldn't be Manning without offensive continuity and an amazing o-line. I still don't get why people are wasting their breaths talking about QB problems. I hate to yell, but THERE ARE A DOZEN OTHER POSITIONS TO WORRY ABOUT FIRST before entertaining the notion of a change at that position. This team has far too many problems to lay most of the blame at the QB's feet.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

They asked JZ how does he judge his offense 2 years in?

JZ: The scheme doesn't match the output.

(WTF!!?!?!?!?!? Yes MoFo We KNOW THIS)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

repost:
Actually, the scheme does match the output...unfortunately. It is what it is...or was.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

JZ: If I were San Diego and going into the playoffs, I would prob rest some starters

HAHAHAHA... I have news. You're not SD, and you're not going into the playoffs.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Suisham was ice cold! Did us dirty. Whooweee! I mean, Dallas had to go for it several times instead of kicking 45+ yard field goals, but I'm sure JReid & co will keep bragging about his impeccable accuracy.

Posted by: AdamCr | December 28, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

It's official, don't feel sorry for Zorn, he doesn't want it

Posted by: noonefromtampa | December 28, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

soup lovers, remember to record the SD game because it will be his last w/ this team. You can probably pick up your soup fathead at an after Christmas sale for cheap as well.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

I can't wait for S. Bradford,/ C. McCoy/ J. Clausen!!!
I can wait to see him drop back and get sacked in 2 seconds, hand off to CP for a 1 yard loss, learn the pro game and throw INT's! Maybe we don't have to draft a QB, maybe we can pick up the sure- bet HOF QB's like Pennington he loves to throw deep. How about Tavaris? He wasn't benched for a 40 year old, they're just resting him for the off-seson (when the real action begins). David Carr? He got a couple of reps yesterday, he should be ready to lead us to the SB. Oh snap, I forgot we have Colt! If he didn't get hurt this preseason, he would have definately lead another team to the SB after he got cut here.
Lets get rid of JC, he holds the ball longer than 1 second. In that situation every QB knows you have to throw the ball as soon as its snapped to you! All those short passes he incorporates into the game plan each week, why doesn't he design some longer routes? All the blitz reads he doesn't remind Rabach to call the protection for. JC's lazy too, he's always laying down on the job. Sometimes after a snap, he acts like he just woke up and then he's so lazy his teammates have to pull him up! I can't wait till he's gone!

Posted by: priceisright | December 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Actually Freddie, Zorn is right.

If Campbell ever decided to throw the ball accurately downfield on occassion, we wouldn't be that bad....still not good, but not Detriot Lions/Cleveland Browns/St. Louis Rams Bad

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Of course I meant that people thought what many of you seem to think about JC about Kurt Warner when he got the start for the Rams, about Donovan McNabb before the Eagles made the Super Bowl, and about Brady when he got the start on the Pats after Bledsoe went down.

I'd rather see the 'Skins build a complete o-line from the ground up before they insert whatever QB they think is good enough to help the team win a Super Bowl.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

At one point last night Collinsworth was killing JC17 after he took a sack. The popular thing to do would be to blame th Oline, but someone knowledgeable like Collinsworth was pointing out that JC17 was supposed to execute a 3-step drop and get rid of the ball.


Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 12:43 PM

Did he hesitate, or did he look backside? It seemed to me he was turning backside, but didn't have time to make the 2nd read. Don't get me wrong, JC didn't play well, but I would look to him missing Davis, or MOss on easy throws as a better example. In this league QBs take a 3-step drop, pump, and then look backside (see Eagles, Philly).

Posted by: TWISI | December 28, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Yes DC can find a QB that can win more than 35% of his starts.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

And pick up lineman.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"This time, Suisham's kick doesn't matter one tiny bit, because 14 points was an insurmountable lead."

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"the scheme doesn't match the output" = "I called the play to work, not to fail" = the buck stops elsewhere

F Zorn.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

zacktly nate.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Actually Freddie, Zorn is right.

If Campbell ever decided to throw the ball accurately downfield on occassion, we wouldn't be that bad....still not good, but not Detriot Lions/Cleveland Browns/St. Louis Rams Bad

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse
4th, there's a reason 77% of his passes are 0-10 yds. The receivers can only get 10 yds downfield in the 2 seconds alloted for JC to throw before he is planted.

By the way, what team lost to daBears, Cheeves, Raidahs and Brownies this year? And are still in playoff contention?

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

People, Greg Blache must go, Laron Landry is simply a stupid player who couldn't cover his great grand-ma if necessary, couldn't tackle, always looking to give hard hits which never happens since he is always missing his target, D'Hall must go, he is nothing but over rated third string corner, Randle-El must go, Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts must go, they both too slow, too old, Ganther is not the real deal, keep for no 3 RB, Marcus Mason must go, Santana Moss is only good for Slot or no 3 wide receiver, Moss drops too many balls recently, the entire offensive line must be rebuilt, finally, and unfortunately Jim Zorn must go.

Posted by: abxinc | December 28, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I don't wanna F Zorn.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

4th, you don't need a stopwatch to tell that Campbell doesn't have time to wait for dudes to get downfield, let alone go through any downfield progressions...

I'm not saying he's blameless, because he has not at all lived up to my faith in him (I was among those expecting him to turn the corner this season), but you cannot blame him for not going downfield when he gets about 1.2 seconds per dropback.

Not to mention that he's not the one who gets to decide when the primary route is down the field -- I believe that decision falls to one of the Sherms.

What a friggin' train wreck.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Roethlisburger is not a risk-taker the way Farve is, in my opinion. Ben R. throws the ball into tight spots, but usually only where his receiver can make a play for it.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Look - ORTON was chosen over JC. ORTON! isn't that enough right there. Even if the line was "decent" he doesn't read the coverages. He doesn't pick up the blitz, and he hasn't had pocket awareness since he has been here.

As far as the Def scheme, or lack there of, having the Safety playing 25 yards off the ball is just mind numbing. It;s been a staple of the Skins D, for a few years now.

It's got to hurt just a bit, when you stop a team and its 3rd and 6 and they dump it off for 7 yards everytime.

One more week, and bring in the new guys.

Posted by: ChrisWoody | December 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Donald Penn from the Bucs is an Olman that could be a good FA pickup. The Bucs may not offer him the $$ he wants, but I think with Penn at LT and if they move Jone to RT, that should be a solid enough starting group. The skins will need to find an elite guard in the draft.

Posted by: TWISI | December 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

4th, there's a reason 77% of his passes are 0-10 yds. The receivers can only get 10 yds downfield in the 2 seconds alloted for JC to throw before he is planted.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 1:00 PM

and 24% of his completions are behind the line of scrimmage.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 28, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

LOL at price...

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

NAte...MY comment on that is meant even when the opportunities to throw downfield are there, JC17 instead goes for the safe 2 yard safty valve.

Don't take my word for it. Take Collinsworth, Jaws, Mike Martz, And JoeyT's assesment since they have all mentioned this at one point in time this season. Couple that with the fact that Josh McDaniels didn't want JC17 in the offseason over Orton and the fact that Vinny could not trade Campbell to another team after those facts.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"Mike Williams out; Doughty will try to play
Coach Jim Zorn, on the Monday night injuries:"

Maybe that was the problem--JZ thought we were playing tonight instead of on Sunday night.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 28, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I have been a big JC supporter. I thought he would make a big turn this year and he hasn't. However, I don't see anyone in the NFL playing good behind this line. They need to go o lineman with the first pick. It would be dumb to go QB. Haven't 10 years of ignoring the line teach us that we have to adjust the line first.

Posted by: jm220 | December 28, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"Actually Freddie, Zorn is right.

If Campbell ever decided to throw the ball accurately downfield on occassion, we wouldn't be that bad....still not good, but not Detriot Lions/Cleveland Browns/St. Louis Rams Bad"

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

So if Campbell played better, maybe the Redskins would be 6-10 or 7-9 instead of 4-11 (or 4-12). Wonderful.

So obviously the logical thing is to sink an early draft pick or two into a QB, and/or tens of millions of dollars, rather than sinking as many resources as possible into rebuilding the team's o-line, hiring a real coaching staff that knows how to executing sound schemes and game plans, and then waiting to see if the current QB continues to play dink and dunk. I dunno about you, but I want this team to be built to win for the long haul rather than execute knee-jerk moves to placate the fans who refuse to acknowledge or appreciate the Mark Rypiens and Trent Dilfers of the world.

Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler love to fling the ball down the field. How's life working out for their fans? Better a QB who doesn't make many mistakes than a guy who will throw away every other game. When you have a great team, you can afford a risk-taker like, say, Favre. When you don't, you need someone to play like JC has been playing - throwing safe, short routes under pressure in an attempt to dodge calamity.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

By the way, what team lost to daBears, Cheeves, Raidahs and Brownies this year? And are still in playoff contention?

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 1:00 PM

Da Stillers....You forgot lost twice to Cincy

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

LOL, Loverro just said when you're evaluating a QB you're not making that evaluation on his ability as a punching bag, the only question is, is there somebody out there that is a certain improvement over what you have.

To me, I agree that's the only question, but at the same time, I think Colt or Collins or Bartel could do just as well as what JC has done. He's mediocre at best and not worth the cash to re-sign, please its time to finally move on, just let him go and lets see what someone else can do, we've seen 5 years of what JC can't do. I still don't get why everyone assumes JC is performing at the absolute max of the potential just because he gets beat up. Taking hits is no excuse to miss the multiple wide open throws he misses each game and makes the bad reads he continuously makes.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Orton has also thrown 20 td's and 9 int's....just sayin...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

@jcabana -

It's a combo of Zorn and Campbell. If JC17 was a more accurate downfield passer and Jim Zorn has a more thoughtful game manager.....Championship. But, that was never to be because neither has it in them.

And the above statement is why Blache keeps his saftys deep. Blache is the reason why we are always still in the game. If they were able to put more points up on the board, then Blache would be able to gamble more. Safetys deep = 2 yard check down. So, I don't understand the extreme Blache hate and the extreme kiddie gloves given to Zorn and Campbell.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Zorn out. New O-line. Completely new coaching staff.

Posted by: cotmfk | December 28, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Once more, with feeling:

BLOW THIS B'YATCH UP!

Anyone with more than 3 years experience should be trade bait or cut fodder. Doesn't matter who they are or how much they cost. It doesn't look like a CBA is going to get done so now is the time to do it. Any reasonble offer should be considered. I'm talking full on house cleaning. It will suck in the short term but, like ripping off a band-aid, it's for the best.

I don't want to see guys like Cooley or London Fletcher leave but we'd be doing them a favor by letting them go try to have success somewhere else. This team isn't going anywhere in the near future.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 28, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Orton has also thrown 20 td's and 9 int's....just sayin...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 1:16 PM


Orton is playing behind an OLine that was called terrible last year. And they had no big changes......And after watching these 2 play the season thru, I'd take Orton as well.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 3.5 million to Collins is wasted money next year. He's a journeyman with maybe a year left to play if playing behind a solid OL. Sage Rosenfels (sp) played with the Texans, and will be on the market, he is a better option as a seasoned vet.

Posted by: TWISI | December 28, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

You got to see JC17 behind a functional line with a good running game all last year.

Posted by: p1funk |

This is flat out wrong.

The first eight games, yes, when the team went 6-2, he was among the top rated QBs in the league and had Zero INTs.

After the linemen went down (lost Samuels and Thomas to season ending injuries, etc.) and Portis got dinged and ineffective, and the receivers got dinged and ineffective... surprise...CAMPBELL was ineffective.

I'm not fighting for Campbell to stay. He should go. But NO QB has ever been effective with a sieve like line and no running, especially here in DC.

So whoever replaces Campbell will be a sacrificial lamb unless they fix the line and the running game. Period.

Posted by: TheCork | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Don't take my word for it. Take Collinsworth, Jaws, Mike Martz, And JoeyT's assesment since they have all mentioned this at one point in time this season. Couple that with the fact that Josh McDaniels didn't want JC17 in the offseason over Orton and the fact that Vinny could not trade Campbell to another team after those facts.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Jaws has also gone on record as saying that the Redskins are lucky to have Campbell, that he is a quality player, and that he will command attention as the best QB in free agency. I noticed those opinions are glaringly absent from the above.

Since Orton hasn't had a stellar season and the Broncos are still fighting for a playoff spot, I wouldn't treat Josh McDaniels' opinion as the second coming of Bill Belichick's just yet.

Finally, the fact that Vinny couldn't trade Campbell doesn't mean squat, since 1) we have no idea why trade talks fell through, or even who those trade talks happened with, and 2) you could write a book about what Vinny couldn't seem to get done as the head of the football side of the organization.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I dunno about you, but I want this team to be built to win for the long haul rather than execute knee-jerk moves to placate the fans who refuse to acknowledge or appreciate the Mark Rypiens and Trent Dilfers of the world.
Posted by: jcabana


Please don't compare SB champions w/ a loser that has won 35% of his over three years worth of starts and never even led DC to a winning season, let alone the playoffs.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Hating on JC17 is going full retard.

It's blaming the other guy for being in your lane when YOU are going the wrong way on 495.

If the Redskins had a running game, an offensive line, and a coaching staff that trusted their WR, AND JC17 was playing like this, then yes, get another QB.

But UNTIL they can average 4.3 YPR, and give up fewer than 3 sacks per game, it's silly to think changing a QB will turn this turd into anything other than hammered sh!t.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

4th you know you are the dawg. But I totally disagree with you about Blache. Name one game in the last 2 years when we had a lead and the D need to make a stop and they did.

Posted by: jm220 | December 28, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya on Orton's stats THIS year. But in looking at game film (McDaniels, not me)

Chose Orton ...

'05 stats - 9 td - 13 int
'06 stats - Didn't start a game
'07 stats - 3 td - 2 int
'08 stats - 18 td - 12 int

VS

'05 stats - Did not start
'06 stats - 10 td - 6 int
'07 stats - 12 td - 11 int
'08 stats - 13 td - 6 int

Point being lots more tape on JC - more games started, less production.

Posted by: ChrisWoody | December 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Since Orton hasn't had a stellar season

Orton has more TD's, higher QB rating, and fewer interceptions.

20 td's and 9 picks. Thats pretty good, don't you think??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I take the Orton part back: Orton has been safer with the ball this season. I'd like to see ho he'd do on the 2009 Redskins playing behind that joke of an o-line with no running game. Something tells me his interception numbers would increase...leaving him with numbers similar to Soup's.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Hating on JC17 is going full retard.

It's blaming the other guy for being in your lane when YOU are going the wrong way on 495.

If the Redskins had a running game, an offensive line, and a coaching staff that trusted their WR, AND JC17 was playing like this, then yes, get another QB.

But UNTIL they can average 4.3 YPR, and give up fewer than 3 sacks per game, it's silly to think changing a QB will turn this turd into anything other than hammered sh!t.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Completely excusing a 5 year veteran 4 year starter for being unable to recognize a corner blitz, for being unable to hit a stationary target (the bubble screen to moss that was high and right), for throwing the ball away on 4th and 11, for consistently missing basic passes and wide open receivers and blaming it all on a coach or the oline.....is going full retard.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Keep JC if you can for a reasonable price. If someone offers him a ton of money, we will get compensation through picks. Not bad, IMO. In other words, try to keep him, but don't bet the bank on him.

We still have Colt Brennan under contract for two more years. We can see what he's got next year if JC is gone. If CB has nothing, the redskins will suck again next year and we can draft another QB then.

O-line is the most glaring need. Nobody can run or pass right now.

Posted by: cotmfk | December 28, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Please don't compare SB champions w/ a loser that has won 35% of his over three years worth of starts and never even led DC to a winning season, let alone the playoffs.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------------

I'll stop comparing JC to those guys when people start comparing the 52 other guys on the roster.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 28, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Since Orton hasn't had a stellar season

Orton has more TD's, higher QB rating, and fewer interceptions.

20 td's and 9 picks. Thats pretty good, don't you think??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 1:28 PM

Yup. And his team is in the playoff hunt.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

And who's to say he (JC) even wants to play for us anymore... after all he has been through!

Posted by: cotmfk | December 28, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

i've gotten jc bashing out of my system and i see some of you were late coming into work today (4th!)...

i see good things in the future for our beloved team. never ever i've been so optomistic about this team since gibbs left for the first time. cerrato firing was HUGE!!!

we're going to need some luck with draft picks and injuries. but shanny has the right strategy about the draft, more the merrier.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Orton is playing behind an OLine that was called terrible last year. And they had no big changes......And after watching these 2 play the season thru, I'd take Orton as well.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Who called the Broncos oline terrible last year? They were consistently rated the best oline in the league by most sources.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2008

Orton has a much better line, better running backs, better coach, and better receivers and only 1 more TD.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

And who's to say he (JC) even wants to play for us anymore... after all he has been through! Posted by: cotmfk

Ah... ok. Please don't come back. Again, he seems like a nice guy, but my Dad is nice and I don't want him throwing to WR. However they do read Defenses the same way so maybe ...

Posted by: ChrisWoody | December 28, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Orton vs. Campbell. Let's see. Orton's QB rating is 89, JC17 is 84. Orton has 8 passes over 40 yards, JC17 has 7. Over 20, JC 29, Orton 35 Orton 62 pct, JC 65. Campbell 18 TD, Orton 20.

About the only real difference is INT (15 versus 9).

But look at the teams:

DEN is averaging 4.2 yards per rush, given up 32 sacks and 52 QB hits. Denver has Brandon Marshall a big receiver who can catch the ball in traffic.

WAS is averaging 3.2 yards per carry, has given up 41 sacks, and 83 QB hits.

I don't think VC was willing to give up DEN's asking price for Cutler 2 firsts and a second. CHI was, so they got the human interception machine.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

JM220 - I am not backing Blache. He needs to go. Our 4th QTR sucks on all fronts. Offense, Defense, Head Coaching. I was just throwing in the counter argument since I saw too much of a tilt on Blache HAting. He did hold the Cowboys to 17 points. Below their normal average, and the NFL average. How can people be calling for Blache's head when the Skins didn't score a damn point.

I was sitting up in the 400s cold as ish watching that stupid game from the stands. And not once was I thinking about the Defense doing bad. I was heartaching cuz the F'ing offense couldn't do didly-poo...

Everyone...PLEASE watch this and tell me this is not an accurate description of yesterday and the whole season!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX4ox7aX_wc

You will never hear this out of Zorn or JC17's mouth cuz their perception of reality is out of sync...

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Yup. And his team is in the playoff hunt.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

With other than Brandon Marshall no offensive weapons that scare anybody. And while getting sacked 27 times, having injuries to his knee and throwing hand, missing a game and half, and if you factor in the 5 sacks Chris Simms took they average allowing 2.16 sacks a game and we average 2.7, and they average about 20 more yards a game rushing not a dramatic difference to where Orton should be 20/9 and JC be 18/15.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Please don't compare SB champions w/ a loser that has won 35% of his over three years worth of starts and never even led DC to a winning season, let alone the playoffs.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Please don't compare one QB who play on one of the 3 best teams in the history of the NFL, and another QB who had possibly the best defense aside from the '85 Bears in the history of the NFL, to a QB of a 4-12 team with many glaring weaknesses.

Trent Dilfer had 12 TDs and 11 INTs on the Ravens in their Super Bowl year. He had 6.6 yards gained per pass attempt, a completion percentage just below 60%, and a QB rating of about 76.

A QB can singlehandedly lose you a game -- but a team with an average QB and solid coaching can win championships. It's also worth noting that Dilfer's o-line was light-years better than Campbell's is today.

The idea that JC is the team's biggest problem is a fantasy. I suppose if the Skins sink a lot of resources into replacing him instead of rebuilding the rest of the team, the bright side is that you'll have someone else to blame when the team keeps sucking.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Re: Orton

So the poster boy for changing our QB is a mediocre QB who went to a team on the cusp of the playoffs last year and is *gulp* on the cusp of the playoffs?

And the guy who led that team to the cusp of the playoffs went to a bad team and *gulp* the team is still bad?

Are certain RI posters born without irony detection?

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

With other than Brandon Marshall no offensive weapons that scare anybody. And while getting sacked 27 times, having injuries to his knee and throwing hand, missing a game and half, and if you factor in the 5 sacks Chris Simms took they average allowing 2.16 sacks a game and we average 2.7, and they average about 20 more yards a game rushing not a dramatic difference to where Orton should be 20/9 and JC be 18/15.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't seem like that big of a difference to you but in actuality that's the difference between the #5 run blocking offensive line and the #21 run blocking offensive line. It's also the difference between the #11 pass protecting line and #28 pass protecting line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

josh mcdanniel is stupid! he couldn't tell a good qb from a horse's a $ $! dude's only worked with tom brady, a total fraud. he wishes he had jason campbell...in new england! it woulda been 5 superbowls instead of 3.

jason campbell is just unlucky. what qb has a different system from the college to pro's and then again and again and again? how unlucky is that? and then his whole line just disappears infront of him. and then his running backs just evaporate in thin air. WTF! and you think jc is to blame for this? peyton manning would've had a hard time competing with these circumstances.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, the stats for over 20+ are JC 39, Orton 35.

My point is that their numbers are roughly equal, except for INT, which is probably a function of the lack of time JC has to throw the ball. As proof, he's been sacked and hit more than Orton. Lots more.

I'm not saying that McDaniel took the wrong guy. Orton is probably a better QB for the kind of offense he wants to run there.

What I am saying is that Orton's offensive unit is a MUCH better unit than WAS.

As for his team being in the playoff hunt, why so are the Jets. Is Sanchez playing as well as Orton or Campbell?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

By the way, what team lost to daBears, Cheeves, Raidahs and Brownies this year? And are still in playoff contention?

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 1:00 PM

Da Stillers....You forgot lost twice to Cincy

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse
I don't put Cincy in the same sentence with those other 4 teams. My point is that a competitive team can still lose to some pretty awful teams in NFL.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't know these football outsider's people and I know anyone can get a stat to support their view. I was going off what I saw from memory and watching the prognosticators during that season. But I am not always accurate....

I am not a JC hater....I am just a truthsayer......

I am not an Orton supporter either. But I know how to choose between two choices. And we you give me the choice of Orton or JC...I'm going to choose Orton, just like McDaniels did.

Remember, Orton did go 13-3 as a freakin rookie with stats like Sanchez this year. What about that????

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

The idea that JC is the team's biggest problem is a fantasy. I suppose if the Skins sink a lot of resources into replacing him instead of rebuilding the rest of the team, the bright side is that you'll have someone else to blame when the team keeps sucking.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Nobody said he's the biggest problem. He's not, but he's a big problem. Obviously the oline is awful and needs to be addressed, nobody argues that. Obviously running back is an issue that needs to be addressed. But to pretend that JC after 5 years is suddenly going to learn how to read a defense, become accurate, and become clutch is ludicrous. Let him go.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

above post was meant to be sarcastic

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

You got to see JC17 behind a functional line with a good running game all last year.


Posted by: p1funk |

This is flat out wrong.

The first eight games, yes, when the team went 6-2, he was among the top rated QBs in the league and had Zero INTs.

After the linemen went down (lost Samuels and Thomas to season ending injuries, etc.) and Portis got dinged and ineffective, and the receivers got dinged and ineffective... surprise...CAMPBELL was ineffective.

I'm not fighting for Campbell to stay. He should go. But NO QB has ever been effective with a sieve like line and no running, especially here in DC.

So whoever replaces Campbell will be a sacrificial lamb unless they fix the line and the running game. Period.

Posted by: TheCork | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse


Yeah, you are right. When Clinton Portis was leading the league in rushing and all JC17 had to do was not turn the ball over, he looked real effective.

When the running game faltered and we actually needed our QB to make some plays and score some points and take the team on his shoulders we were treated to a 2-6 stretch.

The last year he was playing under Gibbs, he looked real ordinary. Thankfully for us, he got injured and Todd Collins was able to lead us down the stretch into the playoffs - do you think JC17 takes us on that same run?

Last year Ben Roethlisberger played behind a sieve line and got little support from a run game. All he managed to do was win a Superbowl.

Everyone keeps talking about fixing the Oline, fixing the Oline, fixing the Oline. YES. Obviously we need to fix the Oline. But that's not the only upgrade this team needs.

There are QBs out there that elevate the play of their teams. When they are in there, they make plays and make alot of the other players around them better. They do things to mask some of the deficiencies of their teams.

JC17 is not one of those guys. That's my point.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

is there a way that we can ask JZ questions? I really want to know what happened two years ago, how he was given the job. did he ask for anything? was he given things that he asked for? why did he take this job?

Posted by: Skins2 | December 28, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Completely excusing a 5 year veteran 4 year starter for being unable to recognize a corner blitz, for being unable to hit a stationary target (the bubble screen to moss that was high and right), for throwing the ball away on 4th and 11, for consistently missing basic passes and wide open receivers and blaming it all on a coach or the oline.....is going full retard.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse


...because god knows Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, or any of the league's other top QBs haven't ONCE failed to recognize a corner blitz or overthrown a stationary target in the past 3 years. Ever.

Sorry, but that implication is full retard. Donovan McNabb seems to make each of those mistakes at least once a game. And of course, most QBs are allowed to audible out of a play that will get them killed, unlike Soup.

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but players make mistakes -- and the worse the team is, the more glaring each player's mistakes become. When Gibbs 2.0 made the playoffs the first time, nobody was griping about Lavar's freelancing. Only when the team slid back into mediocrity did people start to highlight it as a major issue.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"Completely excusing a 5 year veteran 4 year starter..."

BS. You are completely misrepresenting what people are saying about JC17. I believe there's a group which is saying the problems in WAS are much, much more the result of a lousy OL, running game, and offensive scheme/playcalling, more than QB play. And that that ought to be fixed FIRST, before evaluating the QB.

How will changing the QB fix the running game? play design? receivers getting open on those 3 step drops?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Seriously?! We're still discussing the BENEFITS of Soup17?!

Regardless of which camp you're a member of (proSoup - antiSoup) it is evident his value here is minimal.

Whether or not he stays is immaterial, isn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 28, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Soooo PFunk....

We CAN do two things at once, huh? Like revamping the OLine and upgrading the QB situation??

At the SAME Time???

Wow...Just Wow!!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

It's also the difference between the #11 pass protecting line and #28 pass protecting line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse


Do those stats factor in the sacks that JC17 takes b/c he holds the ball too long? Or gets flustered by the defensive look and doesn't execute the play? Or doesn't move/step up in the pocket?

Just asking...

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

There are QBs out there that elevate the play of their teams. When they are in there, they make plays and make alot of the other players around them better. They do things to mask some of the deficiencies of their teams.

JC17 is not one of those guys. That's my point.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 1:51 PM
_______________________

you are right, romo did it last night when he throw for the 1at td.

but my question is, where can we get one of those QB's? the truth is the team helps those QB's to perform better. it is not always the qb that make his surrounding teammates better. we were never lucky to land one, partly because of the constant change that the deadskins are going through

Posted by: Skins2 | December 28, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I am & always will be a good with keeping campbell for the 2 years we will need to rebuild the roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I am & always will be a good with keeping campbell for the 2 years we will need to rebuild the roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 1:59 PM

My thoughts exactly....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

people i don't want on the plane back from san diego:

jim zorn and his entire offensive coaching staff excluding buge

greg blatche and his entire defensive staff

jerry gray (no way i woulda interviewed eventhoug i hate zorny pants. tells a lot about the guy's character. also blatche did the same thing after GG retired.)

jason campbell

randall el

devin thomas (sorry he's a bust and so is kelly)

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Nobody said he's the biggest problem. He's not, but he's a big problem. Obviously the oline is awful and needs to be addressed, nobody argues that. Obviously running back is an issue that needs to be addressed. But to pretend that JC after 5 years is suddenly going to learn how to read a defense, become accurate, and become clutch is ludicrous. Let him go.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Really? He's not allowed to audible -- but somehow you know he can't read defenses? If he couldn't read defenses, wouldn't his interception numbers be a lot higher? Wouldn't his QB rating be a lot lower? Methinks the jury is out on that notion.

He isn't accurate? That's just a lie. There are MANY -- not just a few -- stats that refute this claim. Donovan McNabb is actually less accurate (or at least has been less accurate in past seasons). In fact, quite a few QBs are less accurate.

He isn't clutch? I'll give you that. This is the one area that can't be passed off as a function of the rest of the team or the coaches.

But yes, sometimes QBs learn to be clutch later in their careers. Will it happen with JC? I have no idea. Is it cheaper and more beneficial to the long-term health of the team to find out than it would be to bring in a flashy replacement, as is Snyder's tendency? Sure. But something tells me you'll get your wish, and we'll have to pray that the dude who's been screwing it up for 10 years doesn't blow it yet again with his latest savior QB.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"Last year Ben Roethlisberger played behind a sieve line and got little support from a run game. All he managed to do was win a Superbowl."

How was the Stiller's defense last year?

I think the basic disagreement is this:

Some posters believe that JC can't be evaluated fairly because the offense around him is horrendous.

Others believe they can evaluate him, and that a player like Ben R. or Brady is better.

Yes -- it would be better to have Roeth., Brady, Manning at QB than JC. I think we can all agree on that.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

...because god knows Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, or any of the league's other top QBs haven't ONCE failed to recognize a corner blitz or overthrown a stationary target in the past 3 years. Ever.

Sorry, but that implication is full retard. Donovan McNabb seems to make each of those mistakes at least once a game. And of course, most QBs are allowed to audible out of a play that will get them killed, unlike Soup.

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but players make mistakes -- and the worse the team is, the more glaring each player's mistakes become. When Gibbs 2.0 made the playoffs the first time, nobody was griping about Lavar's freelancing. Only when the team slid back into mediocrity did people start to highlight it as a major issue.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Its not a question of if they ever have, its the answer of JC misses these things (other than the throw away on 4th down) multiple times ever single game, week in and week out. He throws bad Ints in clutch situations, he doesn't rally the team when he needs to, he is inaccurate, he can't read defenses, he has a slow delivery, he holds the ball too long, he fumbles a lot, he locks on to his receivers, he has no pocket awareness, he checks down too much, and he wins 35% of his starts. To try and pretend any of that is going to dramatically change with a better oline is just dumb.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

devin thomas (sorry he's a bust and so is kelly)

put the bong down deal, this isn't your lions we're talking about...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I just can't believe that we're still having this same argument about JC for 3 years now......doesn't that say enough right there?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Just my opinion:

There are 4 QB's in the NFL, who, if on the Redskins, would put us in the playoffs:

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Big Ben

There are 0 QB's who would make us a Super Bowl Champ. There are 0 who would make us NFC Champs.

Everyone wants a QB of that caliber on their team. I get it -- so do I. But I believe we are very capable of being a legit team with a QB who isn't quite at that level.

Look at some of the playoff contenders this year:

NY Jets -- Mark Sanchez, who is having an extremely rough rookie year

Denver Broncos -- Kyle Orton, who nobody believes is anything more than a game manager

Anyway, my point is two-fold: those out there screaming that you need good QB play to win are absolutely correct. Most of the playoff teams from this year have good if not excellent play at the position.

But my second point is that we're nowhere close to having the other parts you need to get to that playoff level. It's been rehashed here at length, but we have not even the threat of a running game, a bad offensive line, a bad secondary, inconsistency at the 2nd WR position, a below-average coaching staff, etc.

It's just hard to properly judge JC17 when all those things are a mess as well...after all, he's not a tennis star and he's not a golfer.

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

folks who think that "there's no other QB out there better than jc." need to realize that there's always second third stringers on a team. someone just needs to do the work in scouting them. ie: matt casle, carolina dude, orton, tb dude, raiders dude. we're only looking at first stringers to compare to. TRUST me you can get a better serviceable QB in free agency or for like a 4th round pick.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

John Fox and Marty Hurney can return to Carolina

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 28, 2009 1:11 PM ET
After two straight convincing wins, Panthers coach John Fox is off the hot seat for now.

Tom Sorensen of the Charlotte Observer reports that Fox, G.M. Marty Hurney, and Fox's entire coaching staff will be "offered the opportunity" to return to the Panthers in 2010. Fox will not be offered a contract extension.

Fox is reportedly due $6 million in 2010, the final year of his current deal. Sorensen writes that a potential lockout after the 2010 season could be a factor in the decision to keep Fox.

The 7-8 Panthers face many big offseason questions, like at quarterback and what do do with Julius Peppers. (The most likely Peppers solution: waving goodbye.)

Left unsaid is whether Fox will definitely take the "opportunity" to return as a lame duck coach. With so much money due and no freedom to entertain job offers, we have to assume he will be back.

Posted by: TWISI | December 28, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Do those stats factor in the sacks that JC17 takes b/c he holds the ball too long? Or gets flustered by the defensive look and doesn't execute the play? Or doesn't move/step up in the pocket?

Just asking...

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse


No, but I have a source that does.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/04/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-team-by-team/

Yeah, some sacks are on JC but the vast majority of them aren't. Orton gets sacked too because he can't get rid of the ball in time but nobody gets beaten up as quickly as JC except for possibly Matt Hasselbeck. Most of JC's sacks occur in under 3 seconds.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/04/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-team-by-team/

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Soooo PFunk....

We CAN do two things at once, huh? Like revamping the OLine and upgrading the QB situation??

At the SAME Time???

Wow...Just Wow!!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Actually, there's little to no evidence that the Redskins will be able to do either one of these things alone, much less both at the same time. We all hope they will -- but even for a competent organization, doing both at the same time would be a challenge.


"I am & always will be a good with keeping campbell for the 2 years we will need to rebuild the roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 1:59 PM

My thoughts exactly...."

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

4th, I'm glad you agree. JC has played decently given adverse circumstances. I think teams should treat every backup position as a potential long-term starter, even if some have more upside than others. It makes sense to hang on to Campbell for another couple of years if you can. If he comes around, cool. If not, hopefully they've groomed a replacement.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

OK, suppose you let JC17 go.

Who will you get to play QB for the next 2 years, while you fix the biggest problems first? Since we all agree OL and RB need to be addressed?

Or do you want to take a QB in the first round? Trade a bunch of draft picks for one?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

"Last year Ben Roethlisberger played behind a sieve line and got little support from a run game. All he managed to do was win a Superbowl."

How was the Stiller's defense last year?

I think the basic disagreement is this:

Some posters believe that JC can't be evaluated fairly because the offense around him is horrendous.

Others believe they can evaluate him, and that a player like Ben R. or Brady is better.

Yes -- it would be better to have Roeth., Brady, Manning at QB than JC. I think we can all agree on that.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse


Last year in the Superbowl the Steeler's defense coughed up the lead and they needed Roethlisberger to execute a game-ending TD drive with 2:30 minutes left...and he did. Just like he has time and time again.

What do you think happens in that game if JC17 is under center?

Yeah, I'd like to have a Manning or a Brady or a Roeth.

I don't know exactly where we'd get one. Somewhere in a draft, maybe a high pick like Manning or Roeth, or maybe a low pick like Brady. Or maybe we make an FA move the way New Orleans did with Brees. Or sign a undrafted FA and develop him like Romo.

There are alot of places to look for a guy like that.

But we definitely won't find him by continuing to put our eggs in the JC17 baske, continue to not win, and then sit around and talk about how horrible everyone else on the team is around him, and how everyone but him needs to be replaced.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps talking about fixing the Oline, fixing the Oline, fixing the Oline. YES. Obviously we need to fix the Oline. But that's not the only upgrade this team needs.

There are QBs out there that elevate the play of their teams. When they are in there, they make plays and make alot of the other players around them better. They do things to mask some of the deficiencies of their teams.

JC17 is not one of those guys. That's my point.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

But you have to start somewhere. You only have 5 draft picks next year. You cannot solve every problem. And the Oline is where you have to start, because without a solid Oline, QB's and RB's will not be successful. Top notch OL last 10-15 years. We have to set priorities, and our top priority must be OL. If you have to replace JC down the road, fine. But not now. We will tender an offer to him, and I suspect we will resign him. I would argue that we should try to sign him for 2-3 years, because he won't be that expensive. And then we should spend the time to solidify the OL. Our D is good enough, if only we could score some points. And we won't do that, even if we signed Tom Brady, behind this sieve of a OL.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

trade betts and an autographed Brian Davis jersey for Brady, and Jake Long.....book it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

dealer1 -- "TRUST me you can get a better serviceable QB in free agency or for like a 4th round pick."

I'd rather have you give examples.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

No, but I have a source that does.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/04/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-team-by-team/

Yeah, some sacks are on JC but the vast majority of them aren't. Orton gets sacked too because he can't get rid of the ball in time but nobody gets beaten up as quickly as JC except for possibly Matt Hasselbeck. Most of JC's sacks occur in under 3 seconds.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/04/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-team-by-team/

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse


And how many of those under-3-second sacks are occuring on short drops when JC17 is supposed to have the ball out once his back foot hits the turf on his 3rd step?

Someone up here was killing McNabb b/c of his accuracy. Maybe McNabb understands that in the WCO, you get the ball out quickly. Period. If your guy isn't open you are better off putting it in the dirt or throwing it over his head, rather than standing there and getting killed by a pass-rush.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

trade betts and an autographed Brian Davis jersey for Brady, and Jake Long.....book it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Couldn't we get Peppers with that deal as well? Or maybe Ed Reed?

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

OK, suppose you let JC17 go.

Who will you get to play QB for the next 2 years, while you fix the biggest problems first? Since we all agree OL and RB need to be addressed?

Or do you want to take a QB in the first round? Trade a bunch of draft picks for one?


Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse


It all depends. It depends on who is going to come in here, what kind of offense they are going to run, and whether there is another QB out there that they feel better running it.

I don't know why it is so wise to keep JC17 for 2 years, improve the team around him, then yank him and start over with another QB??? Why is that such a brilliant philosophy?

We can agree that QB is the most important position on the field. So we rebuild a team around JC17 and then once everything is in place, we replace the most important position on the field???

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

You keep JC17 because he is still your property....NExt 2 years = Transition.

But you begin Next Week Monday trying to upgrade the QB and OLine position.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why it is so wise to keep JC17 for 2 years, improve the team around him, then yank him and start over with another QB??? Why is that such a brilliant philosophy?

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Typically thats how you build a team up if you have a "philosophy"

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Just to join in with part of the choir up in here.

WHO is available at QB that will be better than JC and not cost us draft picks? We must NOT give up any draft picks period. We have too few as it is.

This team is in full rebuild mode if it is allowed to be by Snyder. We are in Lions/Browns/Raiders territory right now so I've put the phrase "Skins & playoffs" in the back of my proverbial closet for at
least another season if not 2. If we make it it will be flukey not because we're so great.

What are the major areas we need to address right now? Oline, RB, Secondary what comes behind those? Dline because it's getting older by the minute, WR and QB.
Please let us not be so stupid and idiotic as to bring in a new QB. Let's suppose we rebuild the oline with hopefully mostly young guys. They'll need some time to grow into the role. Are we going to roll the dice on a young QB then throw him to the lions and hope it doesn't mess with his head and he'll emerge? We've done that already and look what it has got us.

The only shot we may have had would be if JC were not a RFA. We maybe could have traded him for a backup guy and drafted a young QB and let journeyman handle QB as we rebuild. We don't have that option.

As for JC - I think he is going to get some fairly good offers from teams out there and if he wants out he'll get out. And what makes us think he doesn't want out?

Posted by: sfskin | December 28, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

OK, suppose you let JC17 go.

Who will you get to play QB for the next 2 years, while you fix the biggest problems first? Since we all agree OL and RB need to be addressed?

Or do you want to take a QB in the first round? Trade a bunch of draft picks for one?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

IMO:

Cut ARE, Griff, Portis, Betts, Rock, Smoot, let Daniels and Wynn move on, do not re-sign CR22, let JC go, he's not worth the money to keep, you have Colt and Collins already under contract. Re-sign Levi if its reasonable to do so, re-sign Ganther and bring Mason to camp. We're going to end up with the 5th to 8th pick, somewhere in there, I think we're 5 now. We get a LT in round 1, we get a QB at the top of round 2, Tony Pike would be my hope but there should be a couple of options there. in round 4 we take a speed back. Late we take oline depth.

In FA we sign a FS, a SLB, and two corners on the defensive side and on offense we sign a T, G, and a Willie Parker (who should be a very reasonable signing considering his lack of use this year.

Go into the season with the revamped oline. Two top notch tight ends, Moss and DT11 (who has emerged as a good player) with Kelly and Marko as good depth. In the backfield you go with RB by committee utilizing Ganther as your short yardage guy, and Parker and the drafted back splitting the other carries. At QB you open it up to a true competition, between Colt and Collins and the 2nd rounder. On D, Landry is a SS period, Orakpo is a DE period, and Gholston starts alongside AH with Monty and LoAlex as depth with Jarmon backing up the ends. LB stay as Fletcher and Rocky with the signed SLB. FS is the signed guy, corner is Dhall with an open competition between Tryon, Barnes, and the signed corners.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Its not a question of if they ever have, its the answer of JC misses these things (other than the throw away on 4th down) multiple times ever single game, week in and week out. He throws bad Ints in clutch situations, he doesn't rally the team when he needs to, he is inaccurate, he can't read defenses, he has a slow delivery, he holds the ball too long, he fumbles a lot, he locks on to his receivers, he has no pocket awareness, he checks down too much, and he wins 35% of his starts. To try and pretend any of that is going to dramatically change with a better oline is just dumb.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse


You build an offense around your QB, not the other way around. Every QB has weaknesses. For instance, Big Ben holds on to the ball too long and takes too many sacks, leading to injuries and stalled drives. Big Ben makes those mistakes multiple times every single game. He makes up for it in other ways.

Any Eagles fan will tell you that McNabb overthrows wide open guys, throws at least one ball up for grabs, and fails to pick up blitzes every single game (not to mention failing to make clutch plays in the 4th quarter...they could write a book on that with him). He makes up for it in other ways.

Can you honestly say the Redskins' current staff, players and schemes minimize the QB's weaknesses and maximize Campbell's strengths?

Bruce Allen helped build the Raiders. Jon Gruden brought in Rich Gannon while Allen worked in the front office just below their GM. To that point, Gannon was known for being a mediocre, noodle-armed but mobile journeyman QB -- including during his brief time with the Redskins, where he seemed incapable of leading comebacks or coming up big. I thought Gruden was crazy at the time. A couple of years later, Gannon was league MVP and appeared in a Super Bowl.

Do you honestly think Rich Gannon had a better reputation back when he was named the Raiders' starting QB than Campbell has now? He didn't. It didn't matter. The Raiders were right; they proved league observers wrong. Because they built the offense around him from the very beginning.

Believe it or not, I agree with half your critiques on Soup. But to think that NONE of Soup's issues would disappear with a better o-line is not just dumb -- it's ignorant.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"Last year in the Superbowl the Steeler's defense coughed up the lead". PIT had 3 consecutive 3-and-outs prior to that big play. And Roeth. was picked at the PIT 34 before ARI TD before that.

So, late TD by ARI came from a turnover at the 34 and 3 consecutive 3-and-out's by the PIT offense. Not exactly what I'd call coughing up the lead. More like an offense trying to give the game away.

On the other hand, the D also scored a defensive touchdown at the end of the half. Sacked Warner with 15 seconds left at the PIT 44 to preserve the 3 point lead.

I'm not downplaying Ben's game: that throw to Holmes was amazing, almost as good as the catch. But I don't think they win that game without a stellar defensive performance.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

It's also the difference between the #11 pass protecting line and #28 pass protecting line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse


Do those stats factor in the sacks that JC17 takes b/c he holds the ball too long? Or gets flustered by the defensive look and doesn't execute the play? Or doesn't move/step up in the pocket?

Just asking...

Posted by: p1funk
===========================================

I wonder if it includes turnstile Oline men or subpar RB's or a high school football coach?

just wondering....

Posted by: priceisright | December 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Typically thats how you build a team up if you have a "philosophy"

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse


Or you throw a player in there and let them develop together.

The Saints started Bress immediately and built up the team around him.

The Colts started Manning immediately and built up the team around him.

The Steelers started Roethlisberger during his rookie season and the offense has developed around him.

Same with Flacco.

Same with Matt Ryan.

Same with Jay Cutler when he was in Denver.

There's not one patented successful way to build a team.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Blow this b'yatch up!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 28, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

LaVar doesn't go to his Radio Show so he can duck out on the employees from his restaurant he hasn't paid and also let go in a 2am email 2 days before Christmas...

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1209/690535_video.html?ref=newsstory

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if it includes turnstile Oline men or subpar RB's or a high school football coach?

just wondering....

Posted by: priceisright | December 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse


Those are really good questions, which help hammer home my point:

Throwing a statistic out there doesn't tell you nearly the whole story.

Once again, last season the Steelers were toward the bottom of the league in giving up sacks - yet they won a Superbowl.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

And one thing I forgot in my plan, sign a 5th WR in FA as depth but that is a punt returner. We need a legit punt returner. I'd even make a play to get Josh Cribbs from Cleveland, he wants out, see if you can get him for a 2011 3rd rounder.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Zeke, that's a nice list. My thinking is you decide who you're going to keep first, including draft picks, then cut guys.

I would much rather the Redskins take the path of building an offensive line first, and at the same time getting younger. Before acquiring a QB, have depth on the Oline, a decent RB, and experienced receivers.

Then, and only then, do you roll the bones on a QB. Most teams come up worse than JC17 when they do it, but maybe they'll get lucky and the first one is really good.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

On a different note - I'm so sick of the players and their me-first attitude. Most of them grudingly say "I need to do better." but are happy to toot and say "I play hard everytime I put on the uniform."

Allen needs to figure out who the locker room prima donnas are that poison the air and either get rid of them or make sure we have an HC who will run their a$$es off so they shut up.

Posted by: sfskin | December 28, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

p1funk, you keep Soups and groom his replacement for a couple of years down the road because that's what every perennially successful NFL team does. At least the LONG-TERM successful teams do it.

The Redskins have operated with the philosophy of putting all their eggs in a single basket of starters, and failing to obtain and develop backups that are potential replacements for the starters. That's how they got to this point. It's a terrible way to build a team that can sustain success.

A smart front office would make sure all 3 QBs were potential season-long starters. Look at the Steelers: Big Ben, Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon. From what we've seen of Batch -- and what little we saw of Dixon when he almost beat the Ravens in his very first start as a rookie -- all of those guys can win games for you.

That's what the Redskins should be doing with their roster. That's what good teams do. The Redskins have been so mediocre for so long in large part because they spend a ton of money or starters and use bums as backups at almost every position. Then they overload on skill-position players, making the problem even worse.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

But we definitely won't find him by continuing to put our eggs in the JC17 baske, continue to not win, and then sit around and talk about how horrible everyone else on the team is around him, and how everyone but him needs to be replaced.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse
I for one am not saying that everyone else needs to be replaced. I know some people are saying "get rid of everyone on the O", but I'm not saying that. I think you can build a decent OL with Jones & top 5 draftpick at T(&Heyer as backup), Dockery & Mike W(& top G/C available in 2nd or 4th rd), and Rabach C.

Resign JC, keep or rb's(CP, LB, MM & QG). Move SM to slot, Kelley, FD and CC as possession receivers, DT wideout. This team can be successful, if the OL is solidified.

If the O could put up some points, our D would at least keep us in some games. I think they can be competitive.

Then 2011 we can look for some skilled positions, like qb and rb. But we have to start out with the OL. This should have been done last year, but wasn't. So that is where we have to start. At least we have a GM who is aware of that. And if in fact Shanny is going to sign, he has a great reputation for building OL's.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

4th, thats not good....the food biz is just so hard to make it....hope lamar does the right thing...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why it is so wise to keep JC17 for 2 years, improve the team around him, then yank him and start over with another QB??? Why is that such a brilliant philosophy?

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse


Pfunk - You Keep JC17. We get a rookie QB. JC keeps seat warm for one year while the rookie learns from the sidelines.

Rothlesberger ONLY played because Tommy Maddox got knocked out in the 2nd game of the season. And Cutler came in Midway through his 1st season. Flacco only started because the OSU dude got really sick and lost 20 lbs.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

p1funk, you keep Soups and groom his replacement for a couple of years down the road because that's what every perennially successful NFL team does. At least the LONG-TERM successful teams do it.


Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse


When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles.

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

BEan - I live very close to this place. The problem is, they didn't develop the place with people who have...you know...experince in Restaurant MAnagement.

And the open secret was it was not really a Sports BAr. It was a Club that overcharged for drinks and had various Go Go BAnds play there. And it also couldn't escape the violence of the Club athosphere (1 guy kilt after an argument inside....At an adjacent restaurant a man killed 3 guys late in the 4th QTR of the Pats/Gints SuperBowl).

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Pfunk - You Keep JC17. We get a rookie QB. JC keeps seat warm for one year while the rookie learns from the sidelines.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse


Yeah, maybe. But if JC17 is being reduced to a place-holder, then that makes him pretty expendable.

Maybe the new coaching staff can find another veteran out there who has some experience in whatever offense they are installing to be a placeholder for a year, and then become a backup to the new guy and help that new guy learn the system.

Frankly, that sounds like a better plan to me than trying to teach JC17 a whole new offensive scheme (if that is what happens) simply to keep a seat warm for a year.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM

Only 1 started right away. 2 came in during their rookie season. And one came in the middle of year 2.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I can dig that theory P1.....

The only thing we can all agree on is that are too many questions about him....5 years later....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I think those who think that JC is not a good QB are right. he is not good and we will need to address QB situation in near future. he is not quick, accurate, etc; however, we need to find the best solution to address most of the problems that we have, OL, defense, WR, RB, QB. we cannot repeat the mistakes of the past that we used to focus on just one player (AH, Cutler, San) and forget about the rest of the team. we need to have a balanced approach. we may never fulfill our needs in one or two years, or just through draft. bottom line, the owner, coach, fans all agree that we do not have a good qb; but focusing on getting a qb of the future in this off season is not the right approach. those who focus on getting a backup from other team - we should do it if and only if doing so will not cost us anything (draft picks, other good players that we have).
another thought, do you guys think that Delhomme will be available this off season? if yes, then we should get him. he is much better that JC.

Posted by: Skins2 | December 28, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Frankly, that sounds like a better plan to me than trying to teach JC17 a whole new offensive scheme (if that is what happens) simply to keep a seat warm for a year.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

That I agree with as well. If you're convinced (as I am) that he's not the guy long term, and you know you're bringing in another new system, let him go and get someone who has a history in the system or let some other guy learn on the fly. One of the biggest excuses for JC is the system changes so why on earth do you make him go through the excruciating and debilitating process that it apparently is for him to learn a new system, haven't we put him through enough already?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM

Only 1 started right away. 2 came in during their rookie season. And one came in the middle of year 2.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse


So what you are saying is 3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons...I think that's what I also said.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Here's an option...

Ravens notified of trade request by Troy Smith
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 28, 2009 2:09 PM ET
Ravens quarterback Troy Smith seems like a thoughtful, talented young player that could have a long career in the NFL. But he could work on his timing.

Earlier this month, Smith gained attention for his dance steps after his touchdown gave the Ravens a 48-3 lead over Detroit.

Now his agent Ralph Cindrich is making it known through his Twitter account that Smith has notified the Ravens that he wants a trade, just six days before the Ravens try to clinch a playoff spot.

"Ravens QB Troy Smith, Ohio State alum, native + Heisman winner wants playing time. Ravens notified. Will seek trade after play offs, SB run," Cindrich writes.

Smith has shown promise when given the chance to play and was likely to open the 2008 as the Ravens starter over Joe Flacco if not for being sidelined by a rare form of tonsillitis.

It's unclear what kind of market Smith would generate and if the Ravens would be motivated to trade a backup quarterback they trust

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Players needed:

O.K. BRUCE, work your financial magic, and make it happen.

FA:

FS - NICK COLLINS
CB - DUNTA ROBINSON
OLB - KARLOS DANSBY
DT - BARRY COFIELD
LT - DONALD PENN

DRAFT:

1st - SAM BRADFORD QB
2nd - CIRON BLACK RT or MIKE JOHNSON OG
4th - ANTHONY DIXON RB
5th - Best available at any position
7th - Best available at any position
8- undrafted if available:
MATT McCRACKEN OG URichmond
TERRELL WHITEHEAD FS Norfolk State

"SKINS rule in '10 !!!!

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 28, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I can dig that theory P1.....

The only thing we can all agree on is that are too many questions about him....5 years later....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse


Yes. Agreed. Which is why it baffles me that there seems to be alot of folks out there who think that whatever the future holds for the Redskins, JC17 needs to be a part of that immediate future. I just don't see why...

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles.

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

You conveniently forget to mention that 2 of those teams didn't plan it that way. They each had a guy ahead of the rookie who was ready to "play now", and only got a shot because the vet got hurt during the season.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

My question for the group: with the Redskins eliminated, which teams are you supporting as these playoffs begin?

I'm rooting for:
1. Saints
2. Eagles
3. Chargers
4. Colts

I've got no issue with the Cardinals or Packers, and the Bengals are a great story, but I don't see myself actively rooting for or against any of those teams.

Rooting against:
1. Cowboys
2. Patriots
3. Brett Favre
4. Cowboys again

I'm rooting for the Eagles to bring glory to the NFC East, but perversely I'm rooting for the Cowboys to bring shame upon themselves, even if that means sullying the good name of the NFC East.

I'm also planning to root for the Steelers, "my AFC team," though I understand they have not yet qualified for the postseason tournament.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"The Colts started Manning immediately and built up the team around him."

1997 - 3-13
1998 - 3-13 Manning's rookie year
1999 - 13-3
2000 - 10-6

Yes, if you want to be awful for a year, and you draft Peyton Manning, or Troy Aikman then by all means take a rookie QB and build around him.

So, who's the next Aikman, or the next Manning? And how do you know they're not the next Ryan Leaf, who was the second QB drafted that year?

BTW, the third QB was Charlie Batch, who's a backup in PIT, and the fourth was Jonathon Quinn (who?) and the fifth was Brian Greise. Overall it was a pretty bad year for QB.

The point is that drafting -- especially at QB -- is a gamble. And if you try to get the next Peyton Manning, it might turn out that you really drafted Patrick Ramsey, who you can't build a team around.

So build your team around lower-risk picks: OL, for example, and defense. Then you only have to get a little lucky: a guy like Mark Rypien will win you a SB.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

4th, no thanks....from the times:

Six-time Pro Bowl offensive tackle Chris Samuels, expects to learn soon whether his career is over after 10 seasons.

"I'm feeling great," said the 32-year-old Samuels, whose season ended with a neck injury in Week 5. "Pretty shortly after the season's over, I'll get another MRI, see the doctor and make a decision about what I gotta do."

Samuels, who was diagnosed with a narrow spinal column as a rookie in 2000, told his linemates in October that he was planning to retire

Chris, please retire...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

JC had a terrible couple of games. He did virtually nothing right. Many of his hits and sacks were his own fault. He failed to read defenses. He made bad throws.

But...

As many have said and I will repeat, we have bigger problems to address in the offseason than Campbell. We all know what these problems are, and if you want to use draft picks to get a new QB you sacrifice the OL yet another season.

I see the soup haters supplying a ton of reasons why JC17 should go. But I don't see them reasoning why a rookie QB is better than JC17 + a good new left tackle. It's not, and I think that's fairly obvious.

The practical question is: What would Bruce do. I think given his history, we're likely to see them keep Campbell and (especially if it's Shanahan) draft OL with picks 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Ok maybe just 1, 2, and 6.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I am saying the plan wasn't to start all of them at the beginning of their rookie seasons. Different factors were involved for each team's situation.

But at the end of the day, they were thrust into the starting lineup during their rookie seasons.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

rooting for the Saints, and the Chargers....something about wide open high scoring offenses.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Chris, please retire...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse


Completely agreed, while there is no doubt we could use him, he needs to walk away, operative word being "walk"!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

That I agree with as well. If you're convinced (as I am) that he's not the guy long term, and you know you're bringing in another new system, let him go and get someone who has a history in the system or let some other guy learn on the fly. One of the biggest excuses for JC is the system changes so why on earth do you make him go through the excruciating and debilitating process that it apparently is for him to learn a new system, haven't we put him through enough already?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse


One out-of-thin-air scenario I mentioned weeks ago was this:

Let's say Shanny comes to DC and brings along Kubiak who gets fired in Houston.

Currently, Rex Grossman is the backup QB for the Texans, who signed him to a 1-year deal.

Assuming that Shanny/Kubiak install roughly the same offense that they've been running, then why not bring Rex grossman over for the ver minimum to be a placeholder for a year.

He's not the long-term answer, but you don't have to teach him a new offense from scratch. He can start for a year, while a new kid develops.

Grossman can spend a year throwing deep balls, getting picked off, etc. etc. Then take his rightful place on the bench as a backup.

That's just an invented scenario, but it sure beats going through the fuss of keeping JC17 and teaching him a brand new offense, only to show him the door a year or 2 later.

Frnakly, I think they should ahve done that with AlSaunders/Todd Collins, but that's all water under the bridge.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

A note on Zorn. I said before everyone left for Christmas that if we continued to play awesome, he should stay. We didn't.

I don't think there's one person on this forum who thinks he should stay anymore. Amirite? I'd love to hear an argument for him to stay as HC, if there is one. Just for kicks. I can't think of one anymore.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse


When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles.

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

You conveniently forget to mention that 2 of those teams didn't plan it that way. They each had a guy ahead of the rookie who was ready to "play now", and only got a shot because the vet got hurt during the season.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

And all of them had their teams build offenses around them from the beginning, as opposed to shuffling through coaches and offensive systems like a deck of cards.

By the way, McNabb didn't start the his first game as a rookie. He didn't get his first start until November of his rookie season.

So 3 of the 4 teams don't fit your assertion at all. Only Peyton started from Day One.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I think we should tender the RFA contract to JC 17 and hope another teams offers him a better deal.

I would definitely take a #1 and #3 pick as compensation for JC 17. But I would not cut him or release him. I want the compensation picks.

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

The 1999 draft
1 - Tim Couch
2 - D. McNabb
3 - Akili Smith

To answer the question why not let JC17 go, the answer is that there is a limit to what you can do in FA, and through the draft.

My contention is that the Redskins have many more urgent needs, and cannot afford to use a draft pick on a QB. Nor can they afford to use FA $$, because there will probably be a cap in 2011.

Pick up a rookie FA QB? Yes! After all, Romo and Brady were low picks.

But they've already got the best FA QB available if they cut JC17. Why suck more than you have to/

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Chris, please retire...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse


Completely agreed, while there is no doubt we could use him, he needs to walk away, operative word being "walk"!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:02 PM

Randy Thomas should walk away as well...

He's done.

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles.

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

The year before the Pats started Brady they drafted bookend Tackles.

The year Tom Brady started the Pats drafted another OT and a Guard.

The year before the Colts drafted Peyton they drafted bookend tackles.

The year they drafted Peyton they drafted a guard.

2 Years before drafting Big Ben the Steelers drafted a 1st round tackle.

The year the Steelers drafted Ben they drafted another tackle.

The 2 years following Big Ben the Steelrs drafted tackles in the first 3 rounds.

The Eagles drafted a 1st round tackle the year before drafting McNabb.

The Eagles drafted 2 guards the year they drafted McNabb.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I would definitely take a #1 and #3 pick as compensation for JC 17. But I would not cut him or release him. I want the compensation picks.

Posted by: edvar
==============

I would take a #1 and #3 pick also. And I'd also like to ride a unicorn through space to a planet made of gummy bears.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Cut:
Roster
Coarches
Training Staff

Get New:
Roster
Coarches
Training Staff

Win.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 28, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Chargers can rest everybody but the waterboy and they will still win

Posted by: ElYeah | December 28, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Rothlesberger ONLY played because Tommy Maddox got knocked out in the 2nd game of the season. And Cutler came in Midway through his 1st season. Flacco only started because the OSU dude got really sick and lost 20 lbs.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse


So, your plan is to keep JC, draft a young QB and then drop a piano on JC's head, forcing the young QB into action and lead us to the NFC championship game in his first season.

Brilliant!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 28, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

My contention is that the Redskins have many more urgent needs, and cannot afford to use a draft pick on a QB. Nor can they afford to use FA $$, because there will probably be a cap in 2011.

--

If he signs elsewhere as an RFA and we have an offer on the table, we get a first and a third round draft pick as compensation. Then we do have a pick to use on a QB - and another to use getting a good lineman or RB.

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

rex, you're gonna rot your teeth out on that planet....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"Assuming that Shanny/Kubiak install roughly the same offense that they've been running, then why not bring Rex grossman over for the ver minimum to be a placeholder for a year.

He's not the long-term answer, but you don't have to teach him a new offense from scratch. He can start for a year, while a new kid develops.

Grossman can spend a year throwing deep balls, getting picked off, etc. etc. Then take his rightful place on the bench as a backup.

That's just an invented scenario, but it sure beats going through the fuss of keeping JC17 and teaching him a brand new offense, only to show him the door a year or 2 later."

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I could actually get behind that...except for one thing:

Is Rex Grossman really better than Jason Campbell under any circumstances, in any offense? Does he give you the best chance to win while you build for the future?

Based on what I've seen so far from both players, I'd rather stick with Campbell...as long as it didn't cost too much money.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Bean, thanks to the redskins I have nothing to smile about anyway.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

i'm rooting for any team playing the colts and on the nfc side, surprise surprise any team playing the girls.

so if the superbowl is colts vs. the girls i'll miss my first superbowl. though i think i hate the mannigs more than i hate the girls...plus it's the whole nfc east thing...but i wont watch.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

i'm rooting for any team playing the colts and on the nfc side, surprise surprise any team playing the girls.

so if the superbowl is colts vs. the girls i'll miss my first superbowl. though i think i hate the mannigs more than i hate the girls...plus it's the whole nfc east thing...but i wont watch.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Orton is playing behind an OLine that was called terrible last year. And they had no big changes......And after watching these 2 play the season thru, I'd take Orton as well.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse
===========

This is out and out false. Denver has had one of the best OLs for a while.

Hell, they gave Cutler enough time where he actually looked good enough for some team to give up a ton of picks (lol) for him. They also blocked well enough to let street FAs rush for over 5 YPC. They were elite last year.

Maybe you have a point about Orton, but you can't prove it by saying Denver has a bad line.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | December 28, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't like the Saints.

Yeah their city was flooded, it sucked, I mean, can we stop it with the New Orleans love fest because of Katrina?

I don't like the Saints.


I'll be rooting for in order: the Bengals, that is all.

F all the NFC teams thats going to the playoffs.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

is there a way that we can ask JZ questions? I really want to know what happened two years ago, how he was given the job. did he ask for anything? was he given things that he asked for? why did he take this job?

Posted by: Skins2 | December 28, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse
___________________

The way things have shaken out, what with him still in the HC position and everything around him in flux, I'm guessing that he was paid to TAKE the job and be a placeholder long enough for Snyder to assemble what he wanted to assemble. There may have been some wrenches thrown into the plan along the way, but Zorn is only there because each team needs a head coach.

Posted by: Xlnt | December 28, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I would take a #1 and #3 pick also. And I'd also like to ride a unicorn through space to a planet made of gummy bears.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM |

Those would be the compensation picks we would get if another team signed Soup after we tendered him the RFA contract. I thought that was pretty clear. Given the lack of decent QB's available this year as FA's, there's a CHANCE this might happen, and if it does, I would be very happy about it (as opposed to matching or beating the other team's offer to keep him - that would be bad)

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

nobody would trade a 3rd rounder for him last year, now they are going to sign him if we tender him and give up a 1st and a 3rd for him???? If we tender him it should be at the lowest level, that's our only shot at someone signing him and giving up anything for him.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Side note: I'm a colts fan too. How stupid was it to pull their starters and not go for the perfect season.

Superbowl = glory
19-0 = ultimate glory

It's the same goal to me, to "be the best". Except they're going for "best this year" when they could be going for "best ever". It makes no sense to me, or any of the fans I've spoken to since.

Posted by: REXskins | December 28, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Perfect.

So we need to fix our Oline and address our QB situation altogether.

Let's get crackin'.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles."

Yup, is true. They all drafted great QB. In Brady's case, 198 picks went by before the Pats picked him. I guess those teams didn't want to win 3 SB?

McNabb. I guess the Browns didn't want to go to the AFC championship or the SB?

Roethlisburger: NYG only wanted to win 1 SB, and SD didn't want to win any, so they picked Rivers and Eli Manning.

In the 10 years since P. Manning has been drafted, more than 100 QB have been selected in the draft.

So, you think Tony Pike is the next Tom Brady? I dunno.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Collins does better than soup everytime he gets the opportunity and has a year left on his deal (fact). I know the ageists don't want him to play and are seemingly accepting of watching losing football (how did last night feel?). However seems like the perfect place holder until a young QB is ready. Trade down w/ the first pick to acquire more. OL, QB (I like Pike), RB (Stafon Johnson from USC is a steal if he comes out - thinking 3rd round) and whatever else DC needs.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

THATS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT!

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather we keep JC because he's the best available FA. He gives us the best chance to win. Then we draft linemen because that's what the good teams do. Then we draft a QB next year or even the year after depending on what's available to us in the draft. Then we keep that young QB in the same system and let him ride the pine for a couple of seasons. Then when he is ready he competes with JC for the starting job. Let the best player win.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Going into week 17, as far as I can tell it's impossible for the Chargers to supplant the Colts as the #1 seed in the AFC... they didn't play head to head, and even if the Colts lose, their conference W-L record will be better than the Chargers'. This has probably been mentioned above, but I missed it.

My point is that I can't imagine we'll get anything near the Chargers' "best effort" on Sunday... but it won't matter, because the Redskins are going to continue to stink. Those players cannot at all be interested in making this cross-country trip. It's not gonna be pretty.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"The Colts started Manning immediately and built up the team around him."

1997 - 3-13
1998 - 3-13 Manning's rookie year
1999 - 13-3
2000 - 10-6

Yes, if you want to be awful for a year, and you draft Peyton Manning, or Troy Aikman then by all means take a rookie QB and build around him.

So, who's the next Aikman, or the next Manning? And how do you know they're not the next Ryan Leaf, who was the second QB drafted that year?

BTW, the third QB was Charlie Batch, who's a backup in PIT, and the fourth was Jonathon Quinn (who?) and the fifth was Brian Greise. Overall it was a pretty bad year for QB.
Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse
Exactly. Drafting a QB, even a top10 pick, is very iffy. Remember Heath? The most sure-fired way to build a strong team is with a Russell Okung. Remember Chris Samuels. What a great player for 10 years. Let's rebuild the OL.

And I'm in favor of keeping JC, because I think he can be a solid QB(not top 5, but next level of QB if surrounded by top OL and good rb and wr's). Let's take the time to build an OL that will be solid for both running and passing. Get the running going, then play action works. And JC can be a very competent QB when play-action is working. And he can play the longer passes, if he has time.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I am saying the plan wasn't to start all of them at the beginning of their rookie seasons. Different factors were involved for each team's situation.

But at the end of the day, they were thrust into the starting lineup during their rookie seasons.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 28, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse


Exactly. The whole point is that for 3 of those 4 teams, starting the rookie QB was NOT the first roadmap. It was "Plan B." That's something the Redskins have sorely lacked over the past decade: multiple scenarios that will pay dividends down the road if 'Plan A' doesn't work out as hoped.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

So we need to fix our Oline and address our QB situation altogether.

Let's get crackin'.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

We don't have enough picks for that. That's why we want to keep JC this year and draft bookend tackles.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

nobody would trade a 3rd rounder for him last year, now they are going to sign him if we tender him and give up a 1st and a 3rd for him???? If we tender him it should be at the lowest level, that's our only shot at someone signing him and giving up anything for him.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:16 PM |

I guess my point is that if we truly are going to work to fix the line and get some speed at RB, then keeping JC 17 for 3.2 mil isn't such a bad move, given the alternatives.

Personally, I don't know why he would want to stay...

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

draft a 4th/5th year senior QB from a small school above 6' in the 4th/5th round. he'll be better than what you got. also i can throw the ball 0-10 yards too.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Sorry...I meant starting the rookie/young QB. Brady was in his second year when he got the start.

"Collins does better than soup everytime he gets the opportunity and has a year left on his deal (fact). I know the ageists don't want him to play and are seemingly accepting of watching losing football (how did last night feel?). However seems like the perfect place holder until a young QB is ready. Trade down w/ the first pick to acquire more. OL, QB (I like Pike), RB (Stafon Johnson from USC is a steal if he comes out - thinking 3rd round) and whatever else DC needs."

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse


I had forgotten how Collins dominated after Campbell got pulled from the Chiefs game, completing 6 of 14 passes for 75 yards. Maybe someone can be better than Campbell as the placeholder, but I'm not sure that Collins is the guy for the job.

If they draft an RB before Round 5, I'll be mad. RBs are a dime a dozen. All OL all the time for this team.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I don't know why he would want to stay...

1. he's got not choice..
2. what has he had done to him thats just so bad?? This whole idea that the team did him wrong is just bizarre to me...this is a business....were they wrong to try and trade for a qb to get better??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Again, people are expecting Campbell to play like Peyton, Brady, and Brees, but don't understand that these guys don't come around very often.

You have: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Phillip Rivers, Roethlisberger, Favre, Warner, and McNabb.

You could also make a case for Romo and Eli as well.

So that's 10 elite starting QBs in the league -- out of 32.

Don't you guys see that you can't just walk and pick a franchise future HOF QB off the branch. There are fans of 22 other teams that are probably saying the same thing we are.

Get Campbell a competent HC and offensive coaching staff, instead of the circus side show they have now, and get him a real offensive line, not a bunch of rag-tags, patches, and long-shots. Then see how he does.

Give him one more year under those circumstances. If he still sucks just as bad or worse, get rid of him.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm rooting for the Bengals and Chargers in the playoffs. Cards in the NFC.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I had forgotten how Collins dominated after Campbell got pulled from the Chiefs game, completing 6 of 14 passes for 75 yards. Maybe someone can be better than Campbell as the placeholder, but I'm not sure that Collins is the guy for the job.

Posted by: jcabana

No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

also i can throw the ball 0-10 yards too.

Posted by: dealer1

We need this man on the team! Bruce, make it happen!

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

When I think of perennially successful NFL teams this decade, 4 come to mind: Colts, Pats, Steelers, Eagles.

3 of those 4 teams drafted QBs and had them starting in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

The year before the Pats started Brady they drafted bookend Tackles.

The year Tom Brady started the Pats drafted another OT and a Guard.

The year before the Colts drafted Peyton they drafted bookend tackles.

The year they drafted Peyton they drafted a guard.

2 Years before drafting Big Ben the Steelers drafted a 1st round tackle.

The year the Steelers drafted Ben they drafted another tackle.

The 2 years following Big Ben the Steelrs drafted tackles in the first 3 rounds.

The Eagles drafted a 1st round tackle the year before drafting McNabb.

The Eagles drafted 2 guards the year they drafted McNabb.


Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow, nice bit of research there, PA! I rest my case...resign JC, draft top OT in 1st rd, get highest available G/C in either 2nd or 4th. I say 2nd or 4th, because if there is a highly rated rb available in 2nd, I might take him, then get best/available G/c in 4th.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"Collins does better than soup everytime he gets the opportunity and has a year left on his deal (fact)."

Posted by: Realness1


FACT:

Teams prepare for their opponents every week by watching hours of something they call: GAMETAPE

If the opposing hasn't been studying Collins' tendencies, then of course he can come in and pull a few completions out his ass.

People always talk about Todd Collins (dats dey wun, dats dey wun...) but explain to me what Collins did so well recently, or in other words of relevance? As I remember it, he came into the game versus K.C. had a nice long pass to Moss, then proceeded to stink the joint up.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm rooting for the Chargers and that pains me to say as they are coached by Norv, but I'm an NC State fan and a Phillip Rivers fan so gotta go that way.......I just can't see any way that Shanahan comes in and keeps JC, IMO its a forgone conclusion that in either round 1 or 2 a QB is being picked, and in this draft with lots of potential QBs in there I just think Shanny is going to want to go with his guy and not inherit JC the guy who made coaches with great offensive reputations look terrible. (Gibbs, Saunders, Zorn)

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I guess my point is that if we truly are going to work to fix the line and get some speed at RB, then keeping JC 17 for 3.2 mil isn't such a bad move, given the alternatives.

Personally, I don't know why he would want to stay...

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse
JC doesn't have a choice, he's Restricted. He can only leave if he gets an offer from another team, but then we have the option to match it.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

No, it wasn't. Soup usually pulls out a QB rating above 60.1, regardless of what you think of him.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Red,

No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

3 of those points we due to a Portis run. Let's be honest TC completed 1 pass and then stunk it up.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Red,
What I find interesting of that list, is look at the years those elite QB's were drafted, basically we are claiming there are only 10 elite QB's and the span of which they were drafted is at about 1 every 1 1/2 years. Btw none of these guys were drafted after 04.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Not sure why anyone is even talking about Campbell, especially after that display last night.

He's GONE. The owner doesn't want him, Bruce Allen doesn't want him, and whoever the HC is won't want him.

He'll either be starting in the UFL, or backing up (if he's lucky) in the NFL in 2010.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Get Campbell a competent HC and offensive coaching staff, instead of the circus side show they have now, and get him a real offensive line, not a bunch of rag-tags, patches, and long-shots. Then see how he does. - red

and you sir need to come out of the closet cuz you're a closet JC fan.

dude, gibbs is a good coach. saunders is a good coach. they had a pretty decent line during his years here while you had jc riding the pine behind a limp arm QB. THERE WAS A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is HE SUCKS!
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

now let's just agree to disagree. nothing nobody gonna say here to no one to change nobody's mind.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Get Campbell a competent HC and offensive coaching staff, instead of the circus side show they have now, and get him a real offensive line, not a bunch of rag-tags, patches, and long-shots. Then see how he does. - red

and you sir need to come out of the closet cuz you're a closet JC fan.

dude, gibbs is a good coach. saunders is a good coach. they had a pretty decent line during his years here while you had jc riding the pine behind a limp arm QB. THERE WAS A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is HE SUCKS!
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

now let's just agree to disagree. nothing nobody gonna say here to no one to change nobody's mind.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse


No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

No, it wasn't. Soup usually pulls out a QB rating above 60.1, regardless of what you think of him.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Campbell's QB rating is 85 this season. In fact, his career rating is always decent -- and he doesn't put up all those numbers in garbage time. That's why Campbell got pulled during that game: his numbers and play weren't up to their normal levels.

And as Red so kindly pointed out, it's much easier for the backup can come off the bench and do well when nobody has prepared for him. When someone shows a lot of love for the backup QB's stats over half a game, that's usually a sign they don't follow the game very deeply.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

lmao @:

"and not inherit JC the guy who made coaches with great offensive reputations look terrible. (Gibbs, Saunders, Zorn)"

Are you serious?

Campbell didn't run Gibbs' offense. That was Mark "Water Pistol" Brunell.

Saunders? When other than Kansas City has Saunders blown the socks off? Never mind that he had Priest Holmes, Trent Green, and a hell of a offensive line with TWO potential future HOF'ers on it.

Zorn? Dude, I'm not going to even go there with the notion of Zorn having a "great offensive reputation". Why, because he's credited for coaching up Matt Hasselbeck, who isn't even "all that" to begin with?

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not only one guy all the time you can point to and say he's the reason why they're great or suck. In football, probably more than any other sport, it's the sum of the parts that determine success and failure.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

From a non-Campbell supporter------

He has earned the chance to show us that he is good; give him a supporting cast and then if he can't cut it, then cut him loose!


It is not a matter of smarts, it is not a matter of arm strength; it is all about having a supporting cast that are all on the same page and have the ABILITY to do their job of blocking, running and catching!!!!!

Look up the story of Jim Plunket on the internet. Look at Doug Williams and what he did before he got with a good supporting cast.

Think that Mark Rippen will make the HOF as a quarterback - what would he have been with out the supporting cast that Gibbs put around him?

Posted by: dotto | December 28, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

2 bad Grossman has a winning record and has been 2 a super bowl

Posted by: BenchCampbell | December 28, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm not fighting for Campbell to stay. He should go. But NO QB has ever been effective with a sieve like line and no running, especially here in DC.

So whoever replaces Campbell will be a sacrificial lamb unless they fix the line and the running game. Period.

Posted by: TheCork | December 28, 2009 1:23 PM |


I remember a guy that was very successful in DC behind no line with no running game. The ball was out of his hand in into the receivers hands in a flash. As good as anyone I've seen in my lifetime. Number 9!!

They are going to continue to blitz, stunt, zone blitz, etc. Campbell until he proves he can read a defense, especially the hot reads, and beat it. Manning, Brady, Favre, Rivers, etc. do not constantly have to face the kind of rush that Campbell is getting hit with because the better QBs burn defenses in those instances. The offensive line blocking and the QBs ability to get the ball out go hand in hand.

Posted by: Sonny9 | December 28, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Trade JC 17 for a 2nd and a 4th round pick, who needs a quitter, and thats what I saw last night , a Quittter, and you can take that to the bank ! JC 17 quit, he just quit trying, if your to beat up to play , give the ball to someone else, don't quit on my team SJK.

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | December 28, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

How can such a tasteless, classless, no-people-skills, inarticulate, cowardly, no-football-knowledge, GM-wannabe, sawed off little midget be succesful enough in life to buy the redskins? God, it makes you want to puke to think we┬┤ve got DECADES more to go before this POS either dies or retires.

Posted by: bestmick1 | December 28, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

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