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Monday Morning H-Back

It's very, very early Monday morning and we've all seen this movie before, so I'm not going to belabor the obvious. We've covered the issues that have been begging to be addressed -- the offensive and defensive lines and the lack of offensive playmakers. Responsibility for those deficiencies starts at the very top of the organization and rests with Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. But in the loss to the Ravens, there again was a failure of scheme and far too few players looked to be up to the task of competing against a more physical opponent.

This stretch of four losses in five games should be enough to open management's eyes as to what ails this team and one would think it would make their self-scouting pretty simple. Playing top opponents is a good gauge of where a team stands and losses to the Steelers, Cowboys, Giants and Ravens show that there is a wide chasm between the Redskins offense and what it would take to beat good teams on a weekly basis -- especially in the playoffs.

The Redskins aren't close. The offensive and defensive lines are collapsing again. It's time to rebuild and that can't be put off another year. The front office can't kid itself that the team is just an Ocho Stinko or a Lance Briggs away. The Redskins' starting offense was healthier than any in the NFL through 12½ weeks -- losing just one real man game to injury -- so don't let the latest Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen injuries convince you it's just a matter of guys getting nicked up. That's football. And the results speak for themselves.

If Chris Samuels is lost for the season -- and I got the sense in the locker room that that is a very real possibility -- the Redskins might not win another game this season.

Running back Clinton Portis seemed perturbed by his lack of playing time, and rookie coach Jim Coach Zorn suddenly finds himself in the middle of a maelstrom. Perhaps those who believed all along that he was wearing too many hats are right. Perhaps those who believed he was he was being put into a position to fail are right. Whatever happens to be the case, this offense is indeed failing.

Beyond personnel, the decision to use Mike Sellers as the third-down pass protector over Portis, banged up or not, was stunning. Putting Justin Geigsinger at left tackle with no help from a tight end against Terrell Suggs was stupefying, even for one play. Not running more two tight-end sets with Geisinger and Stephon Heyer as your tackles was a major surprise. Not opting to go no-huddle in the third quarter, not rolling Jason Campbell out more, not going to the screen-pass game before the end of the first half was odd.

(As an aside, Santana Moss seems to be shriveling up. Fabian Washington doing such a great job even when playing press-man on Moss a lot of the time, with no help, was a big factor. Campbell tried to go to him when possible in those alignments and Washington was there stride for stride, breaking up plays.)

This has always been a very good locker room -- like an organizational hierarchy, the best rooms flow from the top down with ego-free stars setting the tone -- but it's now Year 5 of the defense carrying the offense and the paltry scoring output is resembling 2004. Even when the team is handed a 26-yard field, it's a struggle to move the ball. And Zorn doesn't have the kind of coaching resume that's going to make anyone do a double-take or give him the benefit of the doubt, as they did with Joe Gibbs. He also doesn't have the 2005 Redskins offensive line (largely the same guys; but different bodies at different stages of their career). The offense can't handle big, aggressive defenses that punch teams in the mouth with the blitz, and that's hardly a shock when you look at how they were constructed.

There was no real imagination in the scheme, no cute stuff for Antwaan Randle El, no surprises. On the other side of the field, Ravens offensive coordinator Cam Cameron did exactly what I expected -- he concocted about three huge trick plays to overcome his sizeable offensive limitations. The four-and-one quick-drop screen that looked like a quarterback keeper, the misdirection fake to Todd Heap and the reverse for Mark Clayton on that final drive were huge plays. They're exactly what is missing here. (Setting up the play action and attacking Carlos Rogers with the double move for that final TD was excellently timed as well - more on that drive later.)

The defense played admirably, but Joe Flacco was dying to give this game away and the Redskins defense just wouldn't take it. The kid looked nervous for the first time in months. With his passes sailing, he was making poor reads and seemed ready to implode. He might have if only there had been even a tiny pass rush to go "boo" in his face a few times. Greg Blache did a better job of mixing up his coverages and implementing more zone this week, but they can't knock a quarterback down with a two-by-four.

The kid had an embarrassing amount of time in which to read the field and deliver his errant throws. Jason Taylor knocked down a pass, but for all of his flip-flopping sides he was again a zero factor. Andre Carter can't even make an impact as a $10-million Chris Clemons-type to come off the edge on third-and-long. LaRon Landry finally made a few plays in the second half, but sitting 40 yards off the line of scrimmage didn't help a ton against an offense as limited as this in the first half.

It was a one-interception night that could have been a three-interception night, a game in which the Redskins perhaps could have taken an early lead had anyone gotten in Flacco's face.

I wonder how long the images from that final Baltimore scoring drive might linger. This defense hasn't been steamrolled like that in a long time, not for a full 80 yards over eight minutes. Everyone in the stadium knew exactly what was coming -- handoffs to fullback/tailback Le'Ron McClain -- and the Redskins were run over on pretty much every play anyway in a flashback to Marion Barber and the Cowboys.

That was no surprise; it was the template the Ravens have used all year -- they are the best fourth-quarter team in the NFL and generally wait until then to unleash their beefiest back on a tired defense. That was soul-sucking, and it may have been effectively season-ending.

A single stop there and this would still have been a ballgame, with Washington seizing momentum and being one broken play away from tying the score. But the Redskins gave up 147 yards -- again far too much on the ground for this unit -- even if was an unspectacular 3.8 per carry. The Ravens are going to run the ball 40 times and protect their young QB at all costs, so often even holding them to around their pedestrian season average isn't enough. And it wasn't Sunday night.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 8, 2008; 7:13 AM ET
 
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Next: The Day After the Game Before

Comments

First?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Damn near spot on post by JLC.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse

I agree the offense is just boring and predictable.

I do not want to fire Zorn, but I think he needs to give up a couple of his jobs.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse

3rd ? or 4th Fire Zorn.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 8, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

2 bright spots to the game last night:

(1) Landry showed his big play ability, and nearly single-handedly took that game for the Redskins. Just about a step short of Ed Reed on that day.

(2) Devin Thomas actually contributed.

That's about it.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

This is simply a mediocre team that does need an overhaul to become an elite team. We need to start drafting lineman, not receivers, and we really need to consider ARE as a Wildcat QB. We have probably one of the best suited players in the entire NFL to run the Wildcat offense and we don't use him that way because we need a whole offseason to prepare?

Posted by: Dougmacintyre | December 8, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse

NBC panned to Colt Brennan on the sideline yawning his a ss off and knowing full well he could do it far better thac JC.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Although there could be significant consequences for putting these players into yet ANOTHER system, there needs to be serious considerations as to whether Zorn keeps his job. Not only is the offense playing bad and looking worse on a weekly basis, it now looks as if the players themselves are losing their confidence in Zorn. Portis looks fed up, Cooley looks fed up, and the rest of the team looks uninspired. Zorn's about a week away from completely losing his locker room.

And as I've been saying from the beginning, if it comes down it, and we need to rid one of either Zorn or certain players (like Campbell), Zorn is the one that goes in a heartbeat.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Flounder is right. Boring and predictable with old O and D lines, no pass rush. Why cant we follow the same template as other successful teams? Is Bobby Bethard available (tongue in cheek)?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

The team has no playmakers on offense. Do Santana Moss and ARE really scare a defense? I don't think so. As long as it's the Vinny and Danny Boy show, this is what to expect Redskins fans.

Posted by: richie_sheppard | December 8, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

psp, agreed, they threw the ball to Thomas and he did something with it, they need to do more of that.

However, I disagree with your assesment of Landry, aside from the INT, he's been miscast 30 yards from the LOS. Far too many times he's out of the picture.

Agreed Flound, offense has ZERO imagination, Zorn needs more focus....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Hey there. Good morning and like maps such as...

Forgot to mention I'm chatting at 11. Please visit me:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/12/05/DI2008120502314.html?hpid=discussions

Posted by: Cindy Boren | December 8, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Until a major offensive line upgrade happens, this is what can be expected each week. Please stop spending cash on skill positions. Spend it on both lines. If we have to trade some marketable stars to stockpile some draft picks, do it.Five years without an offense. HELP

Posted by: shanteefamilee | December 8, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

"there needs to be serious considerations as to whether Zorn keeps his job"

I'm filing this along with your DJ Hackett suggestions from last year..

The very LAST thing the team needs to do is fire Zorn. Thats not even on the radar.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't care what anyone is reporting. There are major problems in the locker room. Players are not inspired and it is obvious. We will all have a better understanding when we see players like Cooley, Moss, Portis and Landry holding out of camp and demanding trades.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 8:26 AM | Report abuse

The Skins have no players to trade, no one is going to trade for Portis his contract is to big.

They need to find some young O-line help in the draft, they need to get a couple of good O-Linemen in FA's they also need to go after some D-Linmen in FA's.


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Flound, yup, yup, and yup.

Thanks for being reasonable.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you need to fire Zorn but he needs to bring in an experienced WC OC to help him out or call the plays.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

And as I've been saying from the beginning, if it comes down it, and we need to rid one of either Zorn or certain players (like Campbell), Zorn is the one that goes in a heartbeat.

Posted by: psps23
______________________________________________
If you get rid of the coach then the inmates will know they can run the asylum at any time. JC is just not the guy! His mechanics have devolved back to the huge looping motion he did not display early on when we were winning. Zorn may have lost the team but think about this: The team turned on Gibbs as well. Maybe its time to jettison Portis. I'm not sure about salary cap implications but we could unload him, his attitude and his inside relationship with the owner (Al Davis Jr.) We were lucky to win the games we did and we need to get rid if our high priced cancerous talent and rebuild with some real team guys.
When it comes to Cooley, he should make more of an effort to block when he is supposed to. He is also clearly hung over all the time.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Hammerhan just said there is definatley something going on between Portis and the coaching staff.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

tyler, thanks for the laugh...nicely done.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

File it Greg. Zorn is skating on thin ice with his players, and in particular his big guns -- I don't care what anybody says publicly. There is zero confidence on the field.

I'm not saying to fire Zorn immediately. But if he can't right the ship, and do it fast, he's going to lose his locker room. And he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, nor should he, the way a documented successful coach like Joe Gibbs would.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Tyler,

You can not get rid of Portis it will cost something like 15 Million against the cap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to point out that blowing the team up every year is what got us to this point.

Maybe firing/cutting everyone isn't such a great idea.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn may have lost the team but think about this: The team turned on Gibbs as well."

When??? Never had Joe Gibbs lost his locker room. Never have I EVER been ashamed of the effort put out by a Joe Gibbs team. He may have been overmatched, outcoached, and "behind the times", but his players were never out-competed.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

As this is a game as well as a business, having some fun has to factor into this. We are not having any kind of fun out there at all.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn is skating on thin ice with his players"


You have anything to base this on, or just talking about your spincter....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

The Skins have no players to trade, no one is going to trade for Portis his contract is to big.

They need to find some young O-line help in the draft, they need to get a couple of good O-Linemen in FA's they also need to go after some D-Linmen in FA's.


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:27 AM

How about trading Fred Davis to some tight end starved team for a 2nd rounder? Cerrato can save face if he ends up drafting somebody who actually has a clue. At this point I'd rather line up Mike Sellers at TE if something happened to Cooley or Yoder.

Posted by: elfreako | December 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

"JC is just not the guy!"

What makes you believe Jim Zorn is the guy?

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

You have anything to base this on, or just talking about your spincter....

Posted by: BeantownGreg

Mostly my sphincter. But partially because Clinton Portis was healthily benched during last night's game.

Faces, body language, reactions to plays, effort on the field. It all says a lot, even if words aren't actually spoken.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I agree with you psps23. Thomas was making plays I have no idea why he didn't go back to the kid. Now I been in Zorn corner but I think he needs to give up calling plays. How in th F do you not play CP? That is the type of sht that gets a coach fired.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 8, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Flounder I was afraid of that.
psps23 if you will recall many of the marquee players complained frequently about Gibbs scheme even before the Saunders files came to town. Only difference is that they still respected his past accomplishments.
I never said the skins were out competed under Gibbs, overmatched and out coached maybe but they always had guts and I dont think this team has the right stuff man, BALLS!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

thanks for clarifying psp.

How about finding out why Portis was benched before jumping to conclusions....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

elf,

No body is going to give us a draft pick for a player that has not played, I hope you were kidding.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 8:43 AM | Report abuse

I would be a tad happier if JC could at least stand on the sideline without his mouth hanging wide open. It sure doesn't give anyone an inspiring vision of leadership when you resemble Cletus the slack-jawed yokel....

Posted by: davebutz | December 8, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Here is a question. How you bring a guy cold off the bench to play against Suggs with no help? He was going wild all damn game and you bring in a new guy out of position and don't give him no help. WTF

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 8, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: elfreako | December 8, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

"JC is just not the guy!"

What makes you believe Jim Zorn is the guy?

Posted by: psps23
_____________________________________________

You like to put words in peoples mouths dont you? JC has no heart, Zorn is too inflexible. He needs to tailor his scheme to the personnel and not the other way around. We are soft and uninspired. I would love to be wrong about JC but if we can't block anyone we will never see what he is capable of. It takes him 3 years to get rid of the ball and other QB's get it iut quickly.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Hey! We'll not turn this into a Geigsinger-bashing on this site! He's been the glue that has held this all together.

Posted by: davebutz | December 8, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Come on Danny Boy will waste his money on Chad Johnson and Plaxico not on the OL or DL.

He will fire Zorn and go after Cowher.

With Cowher the Deadskins wont be any better. Just more years of being home for the playoffs.

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 8, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

davebutz-Hilarious!! I wonder though if Terrell Suggs can even close his mouth at all!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

There are 2 guys on this team that seem to want to play ball: Mike Sellers and Rock Cartwright. If we could put their hearts into everyone else we would really kick some tail.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

"JC is just not the guy!"

What makes you believe Jim Zorn is the guy?

Posted by: psps23
_____________________________________________

You like to put words in peoples mouths dont you?
Posted by: Tyler2Durden


---------

Sorry, I didn't put words in anybody's mouth. You responded to my post about the possibility of Zorn being fired with this:

"If you get rid of the coach then the inmates will know they can run the asylum at any time. JC is just not the guy!"

How is that not an endorsement of Zorn?

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Good posts Jason.

The mental part of the offense is weak from the playcalling all the way down to the players on field. Linemen do not know who they are supposed to block on too many plays. Receivers still run horrid routes. (The one touchdown pass came on a play that Kelly actually ran straight into his own player. JC actually got the ball to ARE, the one receiver not being knocked around by his own teammate. If this was by design, then hats off to the brilliant concept of getting the defense so amused by your Keystone Cops routine that they lose focus.) When they put Geisinger in at left tackle no one called for help on his side--result--too ugly to mention. There are so many other details that seem like a preseason game--wrong formations, motion penalties, wrong personell, blown timeouts to name a few. I thought that the offensive scheme was to be simplified this week. We are bordering on such a simplified system that the defense has as good a knowledge of the play as our own players and even in this simplified system we still can not execute.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

With 92,000 seats and Big-Money in the making, the Team has to deliver more than this garbage. This team is horrible to watch. It's amazing that anyone cares anymore.

Posted by: tbarz1 | December 8, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

If we try to get that idiot Plaxico or the washed up Ocho Nutbag I swear I will have a bonfire in my firepit with every piece of Skins paraphenelia I own. My heart hurts and I yearn for my team to wake up and realize they have to believe to win.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

How is that not an endorsement of Zorn?

Posted by: psps23
___________________________________________
I guess the best way to respond to that is that there is 1 supreme general and there is no I in team.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Can we evaluate the punt draft pick yet?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Come to think of it, we have the absolute fattest punter in the league.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

And now to praise the Ravens...(This is tough because I hate all Baltimore teams and the attitude of the fans).

I love watching a defense that actually plays in the backfield of the offense.
I love watching old school gangtackling that means the runner has no chance of breaking a tackle and that he is going to get the ball stripped if he does not go down.
I love watching a drive like the Ravens last drive of the game where they brought out all the beef on the squad and basically said "You wanna play some hard nosed fubball? We are going to tell you that we are going to run the ball off tackle right for ten runs in a row until you have to stop it with all eleven of your players and then we will flip a long one to a WR." You just have admire the moxy in that drive.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

You know, I hope Samuels is ok. I don't want to see his career in jeopardy but I want to see him go play for someone else. I have no idea how he ever made the Pro-Bowl. Maybe we can get something good for him.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

I must be the only person who was happy to see Portis playing less last night. I love him and he's a warrior, bu the fact is that he's wearing down and hasn't been the same the past several weeks (much like the offense and the kicker). Sellers is fresher and plays with heart...and frankly, Portis should have been getting spelled more often early in the season.

Zorn has done a terrible job of preserving his veterans, which is one major reason the entire team is fading at this point. But ultimately, this falls on personnel decisions. This team is too old/untalented on both lines to be as physical as a playoff team needs to be.

However, blowing up the team completely won't solve anything - not in a league where continuity is one of the surest ways to build a champion. Does anyone think the Giants would be where they are today if they had fired Coughlin two years ago like a lot of fans wanted? How about Tennessee, where Jeff Fisher has overseen both great and awful seasons for years? Constant turnover at head coach and QB is a sure-fire way to stay mediocre.

Posted by: jcabana | December 8, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

The one thing that disappoints me about our boys is the lack of heart. I just don't see it. From Springs clowning on the sidelines in Week 1 while we're getting beat by a division rival to Jason Taylor flashing his pearly whites on the sideline late in the game last night. We all LOVE to say "so-and-so is a true Redskin", but I'm not seeing a whole lot of 'em out there.

I'm not dissing Springs or JT. JT at least tries I think, he just doesn't have it anymore. Springs, I'm done with Springs. Let him go to Dallas and take Jerry Jones's money for a couple years.

But true Redskins? On this team, Rock, Big Mike, Portis. Ummm....Fletcher? Horton? And people say the "true Redskins" thing is played out, but it is what it is and that's one of the things missing from this team.

What does this team have to do to play with a sense of urgency? Seriously.

Sad thing is, I'm trying to think of who we could trade to get 3rd round pick(s) or better, and I have no clue. We can't trade Santana, he's our only WR. Can't trade Portis, he's our only RB. Can't trade Rogers, can't trade JC. Washington? Fletcher? Eh, not gonna get much. Can't trade Cooley, he's our only TE. Yoder? No one would want Yoder. We just don't have the talent to trade and rebuild.

We gotta draft OL next year. I've been saying it for about three weeks now. Draft Alex Mack in the first, then a OT like Phil Loadholt in the third. Start Heyer. Get Jansen and Rabach out. Jansen is the worst starter on the team, period. We need a youth movement.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

why was jason taylor smiling on the sidelines when they were getting their butts kicked?

Posted by: kcbc | December 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

driley, we used to play like that long ago in a galaxy far away.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence would have never let this happen if he were still around. :)

Posted by: Predator48 | December 8, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

I get that we have problems. BUt to listen to all of you negative posters, you'd think we were 2-10. Fact is despite some problems that we need to address - some immediately (wholesale changes in kicking gmae ASAP, get Heyer in over Jansen, cut/bench Springs) and some in next yr's draft and/or F/A (Jordan Gross, draft only lineman with our whopping 3 picks, etc). But we also still have a shot at the playoffs. To those who reply "even if we get in, we're one and waxed" - nice attitude. We could easily beat Arizona, we did it earlier this year. I don't thikn they're that much better (see loss to Philly) and we're that much worse than 2 months ago. Definitely could beat Minnesota or Atlanta. We have beaten Dallas. NYG, as good as they are, they are fallible (see yestrday(

We're losing to great defensive teams. In this stretch we've played 4 of the best in the league. Sure they are exposing us, but they do that to about everyone!!! (See Dallas yesterday). We will win these next three and maybe it'll be good enough, maybe it won't. BUt whta I don't think is good enough is the level of support for this team.

I dislike the FO as much as most of you and am just as frustrated with some of the game mgmt lately as anyone. BUt that

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, what picks do we have in next years draft?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

However, blowing up the team completely won't solve anything - not in a league where continuity is one of the surest ways to build a champion. Does anyone think the Giants would be where they are today if they had fired Coughlin two years ago like a lot of fans wanted? How about Tennessee, where Jeff Fisher has overseen both great and awful seasons for years? Constant turnover at head coach and QB is a sure-fire way to stay mediocre.

Posted by: jcabana

For every Coughlin and Fisher there's a Marvin Lewis, Romeo Crennel, Rod Marinelli, Mike Tice, and (you know the name) Norv Turner. Continuity only solves a problem when you have the right pieces in place. On the flipside, where would Miami be right now if Cam Cameron were still their coach? Or if Brian Billick were still in BMore?

Should the team mortgage their next five years on Zorn? Has he earned that? That's a legitimate question that needs to be answered.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Notorious-We haven't beaten anyone easily this season.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

This next draft we need to go Offensive Lineman the WHOLE WAY. Seriously Maybe draft 1 DE in there somewhere. And pick up a modest young talent at LB for depth in the Free Agent Market. But honestly Campbell couldn't get 2 seconds to throw in the pocket. For those of you saying "yea but it's the Ravens" WE PLAY IN THE NFC EAST !!! Every D-Line is like the Ravens except better. Demarcus Ware, Justin Tuck, Omenyura, Philly's front four, these guys are ALL YOUNG and we will be seeing a lot of them for the next 5-7 years !!! Why has Cerrato not figured that out yet ? Is it because O-Lineman do not = Jersey sales ? So what !! For those of you who keep saying Justin Geisinger is "young talent" like he is the next coming of Anthony Munoz forget it. The coaches would have seen it in practice by now. Are O-Line is in a much worse situation than our LB problem our DT problem and our WR problem. Point blank. But hey, this is Skins FO we are talking about. They will probably go into April's draft and use all 5-6 picks on TE's & Safeties like they do every year. Hey by the way has anyone seen Tyler Ecker lately ? I'm sure glad we drafted that guy............. Sick of it ! And I never rant like this on this message board. But I'm growing frustrated with how our FO runs this operation.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | December 8, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

All I got to say is (And I don't know if it has been brought up):

WHY the SJK did JZ punt the Football in the 2nd QTR with 1:27 left on the clock????

And we were on their side of the ball?!?! Their Offense wasn't moving!!

Buges should have knocked him out and took over the HC duties.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

psps23- Yes I think Zorn deserves a CHANCE to come back next year with, hopefully, some better pieces in place on the lines. We should have found a way to keep Derrick Dockery.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

1-3-5-6. Are the draft picks I believe.

Trade Santana Moss for Anquan Boldin, and Julius Peppers. Trade Marcus Mason for 4 First Round picks. Trade Alfred Fincher for Albert Haynesworth, and Patrick Willis.

That should fix things.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, what picks do we have in next years draft?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:13 AM |

1st 3rd 5th 6th

We can not trade Samules or cut him 13 million salary cap hit.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

As hard as it is for me to say because I know our talent level is low and he is a legend but Buges has got to go. We need a young, dynamic O-line coach and some decent interior linemen. I also have to point out that I think Cooley is a good receiving tight end but is a complete SISSY when he has to block.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

And now for the personnel issues...

We can not blow up this team. JC is our best hope for a quarterback and you can not spend another 3 years developing another quarterback. We don't have the time nor the patience to bring in someone new.

Four draft picks 09 are not going to revamp this team. Last year was the year to actually make the huge leap but that has proven to be a very disappointing draft class and may actually set the rebuilding BACK another year. The list of needs on the lines is staggering. My choice is OL, DL, LB. Free agency is going to have to be the route next year.

Coaching. Help. Please get an Offensive coordinator. (Oh, we got one? Really?) Replace Joe Bugel. (This season, with mostly healthy bodies has been a disaster on the OL.) The defense has carried the water for this team as usual. The defensive coaches seem to be doing well for what they have.

Cerrato. Bad news, Vinnie.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn?

You people are lunatics.

The coaching Carousel over the last decade and a half is the #1 reason that this franchise is in the position it's in now.

Firing Zorn doesn't fix the fact that the OL can't block and the DL can't pass rush.

You need to address those two problems first, then figure out where to go from there.

PS - The only people crazier than the Fire Zorn people are the Colt Brennan idiots.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

1st 3rd 5th 6th

We can not trade Samules or cut him 13 million salary cap hit.

Posted by: Flounder2
______________________________________

Realistically, if we trade away our 1st rounder could we get 2 second rounders or even 3 third rounders. Good talent can be found especially involving linemen on both sides of the ball. Many of the late round choices and undrafted free agents have something that cannot be measured and that we lack: HEART!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Notorious-We haven't beaten anyone easily this season.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Tyler, I didn't say we would "beat them easily" - I said we could "easily beat them", i.e., it is very possible to win that game or other playoff scenarios. Right now the scenario doesn't even include us, so it's time to get ready for the Bengals. If some of this stuff is this obvious to us, I have faith that ZMan will figure it out and address it stat.

If he doen't win these next 3, then I will start picking up more rock for chuckage.

My hand ain't in the sand folks. But just the same I refuse to run whit flag up the flagpole just yet. I'll take note to ask some of you posters' opinion when we're 10-6 and primed for a wild card game. Sure we expect better as 3-times SB champs BUt let's be realistic people - rookie coach, young QB in 2nd full yr, etc.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

WHY the SJK did JZ punt the Football in the 2nd QTR with 1:27 left on the clock????

And we were on their side of the ball?!?! Their Offense wasn't moving!!

Posted by: 4thFloor

What made it worse was the playcalling on that 4 downs:

Run
Incomplete
Run
Punt

That's your sequence? Under 2 minutes to go in the half, down by 14, ball in the other team's territory?

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

vt, welcome to the board, and thanks for posting something born out of sane thought.

Its always fun to read some of these posts the day after a loss. The "I'm never following this team again", and the "Trade Clinton Portis for 12 Second round draft picks", or better yet, the people who blame EVERYTHING on Vin/Dan, then suggest that firing the coach is the answer. HELLO????

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Agreed Flound, offense has ZERO imagination, Zorn needs more focus....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 8:22 AM

Demotion to OC next year? Maybe add a Associate or Assistant HC?

Please take the decision making away from JZ. When to punt. When to throw the Challenge. When to defer to the 2nd half.

He needs to concentrate on the actual plays the skins run. Too many offensive penalties. No fluidity.......

As I have been outfront on this issue (since last week), I said before JZ dose not have a real track record. To me, Hasselback dosen't count. He has the NFL in his bloodline.

Cam Cameron HAS a track record. And it showed. He took a rookie and beat us.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Realistically, if we trade away our 1st rounder could we get 2 second rounders or even 3 third rounders. Good talent can be found especially involving linemen on both sides of the ball. Many of the late round choices and undrafted free agents have something that cannot be measured and that we lack: HEART!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:25 AM |

If another team has two 2nd rounders and is willing to trade up, or you could get a second and a third, again you have to have a team willing to move up to your spot.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

1-3-5-6. Are the draft picks I believe.

Trade Santana Moss for Anquan Boldin, and Julius Peppers. Trade Marcus Mason for 4 First Round picks. Trade Alfred Fincher for Albert Haynesworth, and Patrick Willis.

That should fix things.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I hadn't thought of that, Greg. I sincerely think those transactions would solve the majority of our problems. What a wise, wise football mind you have.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I am not sure what to say
Here is what I feel is the redskins problem

Turner-Snyder style offense
Robiski-Non issue
Schottenheimer-Marty Ball
Spurrier-Fun and Done
Gibbs-Gibbs Ball
Zorno-Midwest offense

Where is the system? We lose philip daniels and we go out and get Jason Taylor. No oe wanted a pass rushing end before we had an injury. There is no system in place on either side of the ball because we have a whack of a GM/VP/whoever who laughs like a hyena every monday on radio. We need to have a system in place and build the team/coaches around that system. but who is going to put that sense into Mr $nyder. He is making his bucks so who cares??

Posted by: cerrato_bites | December 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Original_etrod says:

"I'd like to point out that blowing the team up every year is what got us to this point.

Maybe firing/cutting everyone isn't such a great idea."
-----
Sounds about right. But as you can see, try telling that to the rabble. These were the same people that were chanting "MVP" for Campbell at 6-2. The 'skins lost to the Ravens, Steelers, Cowboys, and Giants, four of the top 10 defenses in the NFL. hey have a winning record and are still in playoff contention (barely). AND, they were the first team in 46 possessions to drop an offensive touchdown on the Ravens. The Eagles can't say that, with their "high-powered" offense.

Lay off, haters. The players are still getting used to the system. The 'Skins are still above .500 and this was supposed to be a rebuilding year. Jason Campbell is a great talent. Zorn is a likeable coach. The losses are sad, but they happen. The Cowboys will drop 2 in a row and if we beat the Eagles, we'll be fine.

Chill, Redskins nation. Lest we let Snyder blow up the team again.

Posted by: eastcoastswampinjuns | December 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I think the blow it up stuff is overzealous. I think you got to give Zorn and Campbell another year to see if Camp can learn the offense and Zorn can teach it. I mean sure you got to fire some coaches on the offense and bring in some vet guys who have experience running a WC thing. The lack of depth at O line, D line and LB is what has killed us. That and we are lacking leadership, and I don't mean players. But name one guy in the coaching staff or front office that scares our players into being men?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Somewhere last night...with drink in hand and snacks on his coffee table, Steve Spurrier was having himself one heck of a belly laugh.

Posted by: Cobain | December 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Ok, my rants are over.

Zorn deserves another year.

And Campbell deserves something better than Zorn, IMHO.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I have asked this before and no one has answered:
Is it really a personnel issue totally? Where does the scheme factor in ? If other teams, like the Ravens can fire their coach, have basically the same personnel but a different scheme, and turn it around why cant we.
In other words when is it the scheme and not the players? I think this is especially true when it comes to our defense. Is is that we can't rush the passer or is it that the scheme actually hurts the pass rush?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

I vote that we do what greg said in addition to bringing back Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark.

Super Bowl Baby!

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

"The coaching Carousel over the last decade and a half is the #1 reason that this franchise is in the position it's in now."

How many years did Norv Turner get with this franchise?

BEFORE you establish continuity, you have to establish the right pieces. That's all I'm saying. Establishing continuity with the WRONG GUY only hurts the franchise in the long run.

Zorn still has time to right the ship. He'd better do it, and do it fast.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the OL has to be addressed in the off-season either by FA or the draft. However, this offense still needs playmakers at the WR position and/or 3rd down specialist (Boldin, or Engram). That's where this offense is failing against these tough defenses along with red zone efficiency. Ideally, Moss should be the #2 WR on this team. The skins have to get another WR that commands defensive attention in obvious passing situation, one who commands a double team or defeat press man consistently. I'd take the FA or trade route for this acquisition.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

driley, we used to play like that long ago in a galaxy far away.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden

Yes, a tear came to my eye thinking about the good old days when we actually outplayed the other team on the line of scrimmage.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

We can't give up on Zorn. We gotta stick with him at LEAST until the end of next year. I wouldn't mind giving him three years. Let him and Vinny do some drafting. I'm confident that DT and MK will both turn out to be excellent at best, solid at the worst.

JC is not the problem either. Is he Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? Obviously not. But to even try a new QB would just set this team back even more. And Colt is the same age as Jason Campbell but not nearly as athletic. Colt ain't the answer.

Defensive secondary is damn good, I'd say top 3 in the league when everyone plays. You give them a good D line and they are gamechangers.

OL and DL need to be fixed. We need to blowup the lines, but with the lack of draft picks next year we need to focus on one. The OL is the weakest link and needs to be revamped. And I'm not sold on firing the OL coach, Buges or whatever. He has a bunch of vets that can't do **** and look completely dumbfounded out there. Looks like we have guys we picked up off the street, and I blame the players for not being focused and/or just not having the talent.

Jansen will probably get to the Pro Bowl, too. LOL

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 8, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"and this was supposed to be a rebuilding year."

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

siranon, along with trading 3 of those first round picks for Leigh Torrence, as well as trading Justin Geisinger for the 1991 version of Jim Lachey.

That should just about wrap things up...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Now you're getting greedy, greg.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Vinny C should do the honorable thing, Japan style and commit suicide. What do you expect though, the guy worked in SF and ND before this, SF played WC ball, (no cold weather and traditionally weak conferences made looking good easy), Notre Dame, you want to know what a homer fan looks like see their schools picture in the dictionary, their fans aint gonna question moves. Skins fans are all armchair GM's (thats the truth with all teams in the North East of the US.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

psp, rookie coach, new offense, what exactly did you expect?? They'll probably finish about 9-7, which was right about where everyone expected them to finish.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I've said it the last 2 weeks...and I'll say it again....its time to use the rookies as more than decoys.

We all know the problems of this team...and we know this isnt our year....we are building for the future (which I like).

But our OL definitely needs some help from the draft......we can have all the Offensive firepower in the world but if Campbell doesn't get the time to throw its a moot point.

I say put him in Shotgun for the rest of the season.

Posted by: goosedude | December 8, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

And Campbell deserves something better than Zorn, IMHO.

Posted by: 4thFloor

I couldn't agree more 4th. I still can't get over Zorn not giving G some help on Suggs. That just blows my mind.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 8, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Is it really a personnel issue totally? Where does the scheme factor in ?

They're not mutually exclusive. It's a little bit of both (or a lot of both).

Of course it doesn't help that this offense was built to be a cold-weather, grind it out, playaction type of offense. Scheme doesn't fit the players, players don't fit the scheme.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

How many years did Norv Turner get with this franchise?

Too Many.

BEFORE you establish continuity, you have to establish the right pieces. That's all I'm saying. Establishing continuity with the WRONG GUY only hurts the franchise in the long run.

You can't establish whether or not a coach is the "WRONG GUY" or not in a year. A Coach needs at least 3 years (IMHO) to be properly evaluated, he needs time to get his system and people in place and gelled.

There is no "long run" for this franchise. We are already in the "long run." Stop pretending like this franchise is one magical something away from winning the SB, it's not. We need to see what we have with Zorn before canning yet another coach.

Zorn still has time to right the ship. He'd better do it, and do it fast

"Right the Ship?" This team is 7-6 with a first year head coach and players from the previous system. What exactly does he need to "right" in your opinion?

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I’m sick of them. For as long as I can remember I’ve watched every game in its entirety- last night, after the landry interception and subsequent field goal, I turned the game off- I knew there was NO way we were coming back (short of several defensive touchdowns). If we lose their next 3 games (SF just beat the jets, Phili beat the giants and Cinci can score), and I think they will, I will consider not re-upping for my season tickets (in the decidedly less homey, FedEx Field for next year. I’m sick and tired of seeing them lose in the same manner, year in, year out.

1) Make poor draft and off season player signings

2) Start of the season OK

3) The rest of the league figures out how to stop’em (skins can’t score without the run)

4) The redskins don’t adapt or evolve (choosing to run the same plays, blaming execution), and dig themselves in a hole

5) Eek out a playoff birth and lose in the first round or miss it altogether.

If the definition of insanity (Einstein) is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result- perhaps we need to look at ourselves. Listen up Danny, it ain't working.

Posted by: HonestSkinsFan | December 8, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

siranon, fine, we'll keep Geisinger, but trade 2 vials of his DNA, for Jared Allen, and Pat Williams. Thats not being greedy at ALL....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I like that. If we throw in a third vial, do you think we could land AP?

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

As much as I can't stad Jasno, he is right. This stink starts at the top. If Danny was a real owner he would fire Vinny after the season. This roster is a culmination of poor drafting and trading.

I am also beginning to sour on Jim Zorn. It seems like he is more concerned with installing this West Coast offense,than adjusting to win games. the points made in Jasno's post about the schemes and play calling are spot on.

We are more than just a player away, unlike what the Danny tried to sell us on earlier this year. We are not even close.

Every game lately has been this cycle of run, get stuffed, throw underneath, get behind, repeat.

Wheres the creativity, the adjustments, the unexpected.

Like I said a real owner would not let Vinny keep his job. A real owner would demand accountability from management. Too bad we don't have a real NFL owner.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 8, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

chiming in with more disappointment and gloom up here. why not much shotgun for campbell? the o-line couldn't protect. portis on 1st & 2nd down every play against that kind of defense while trailing is not going to cut it. i'm not buying anymore that Thomas & Kelly can't run routes. who can't run a 5 yard crossing pattern? other than Moss & occasionally Cooley & Randel El, that's all we seem to be running with this West Coast BS. no hurry up....no urgency = 7-6

Posted by: gregskins | December 8, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,

Sometimes the record is deceiving. If we finish 9-7 while staggering through the second half of the season we do not build any momentum. Gibbs 01 lost his first 4 games, adjusted and then built a winning tradition starting with the second half of the season. You could tell that that team had fundamentally changed and that all the players were on board. Offensively, this team is in total meltdown, and wilts against a good defense. The team would have to put up some extraordinary (for them) offensive numbers the last 3 games to convince the skeptics (me) that we are heading in the right direction.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Doom and Gloom, doom and gloom!!

I can't wait for a day when I watch my team storm down the field and score points. I figure I have 50 years left if I live the average lifespan of an American so I've got a shot at seeing it.

Can we draft some offensive and defensive lineman now?

Posted by: Gweez | December 8, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Even when Campbell is in shotgun, he still takes another two awkward steps back.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Gweez is 1000000000000% correct

Posted by: HonestSkinsFan | December 8, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

sir anon, who's being greedy now??

agreed on the issue of JC not being in the shot gun more. I didn't understand that.

I think that if the team can trade back in the upcoming draft, turn the #1, into a couple of #2's, draft some OL guys, and some DL guys, bring in some LB help via free agency. That would be a huge start to next season.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

psp, rookie coach, new offense, what exactly did you expect?? They'll probably finish about 9-7, which was right about where everyone expected them to finish.

Posted by: BeantownGreg

We've been over this before, but I'll say it again.

Returned 21 of 22 starters on a playoff team that was documented as the most injury-plagued in the league last year. Returned EVERY major piece that had significant impact (aside from ST, obviously). Returned the majority of the defensive staff, returned the defensive scheme, returned the ST staff and scheme, returned the offensive running game. Returned 5 starters from injured reserve. This was also a team that went on a 4-game winning streak in all must-win games to end last season, INCLUDING beating the eventual SB champs in NY. On top of that, we added 10 draft picks, and acquired 33 year-old Jason Taylor to provide an "upgrade" at the defensive line when Daniels went down. And they EXTENDED the contract of 30+ year-old Jon Jansen in order to provide immediate cap relief.

This team was expected to win, regardless of what the media-types (rightfully) predicted. Nothing about the offseason suggested that Snyder and Cerrato thought this was a rebuilding year. They even commented on how Jim Zorn was the best man in the interview process, and how they thought Jim Zorn was the best man for the job. The guy wasn't chosen with rebuilding in mind. They punctuated it by Snyder saying he expected an 11-5 season and the division title.

Now maybe low expectations should have been in order for a green HC. But the simple fact is that they weren't low. This was not a rebuilding year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I think it's time to re build the O-line and D-line. I really do feel JC is our future QB he just need a better line and more play makers around him. The Same goes with the D-line, look how average Jason Taylor looks on a below average line. You build your team around your O-line and D-line.

Posted by: drumer1972 | December 8, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Good thing for Vinny that he does not do his show today. He would be getting verbally torn a new one.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who saw our Skins win a Superbowl, I hope yall know how daggun lucky yall are.


Maybe one day...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 8, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

returned the defensive scheme

Are you on drugs? Do you honestly think that Blache is running the same Defensive Scheme as Gregggggggggg Williams?

Burns and Smithers thinking that we were just a couple of players away from 11-5, division titles, and the SB is a large part of the problem.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

psp, you can say that stuff till you're green in the face, it does not change that Zorn was a rookie head coach, and brought with him a ROOKIE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, putting in a COMPLETELY NEW offensive system. To think that they were going to come in here without ANY issues, is foolish, and shortsighted.
You need to give it more than 13 games before calling for the head coach to be fired.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"What exactly does he need to "right" in your opinion?


Posted by: VTDuffman"

The fact that this team has averaged less than 11 points per game in it's last five games.

The TEAM is 7-6. The offense is god-awful and has been regressing since week 5. Jim Zorn is the head man for that area of the team. He has little to do with how the defense has been carrying this squad. Greg Blache could have done the same thing with plenty of the other coaches out there.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

also, come on JLC

calling out Snyder and Vinny, jeeze. It's just old. WE KNOW DUDE, no one cares anymore. You think Skins fans don't know the management has sucked for years? This isn't news anymore.


And then calling for MORE of those god awful screen plays? Two weeks ago everyone was tired of those screen plays. They suck. Screens to Cooley for 4 yards on 3rd and 8 don't do it for me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 8, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Why would you allow Samuels to try and block Suggs without help when you know he's been playing on one leg this is another example of this coaching staff's assinine approach to certain situations,this staff has virtually screwed up a virtual lock on a playoff chance, NOW WHAT?

Posted by: dargregmag | December 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

After 39 years of support, I gave up on this team last year.

It is unbelievable to me that people still buy season tix when you can get great tix for any game you want at less than face. It is unbleiveable to me that people still have these frustrated emotional responses when its been the same old story every year since Dan Snyder bought the franchise. Dudes, this franchise will never change until Dan Snyder sells it or dies. And you know what, he doesn't really care all that much, 'cause he's having the time of his life.

The only way to end this trainwreck is iff everybody stops caring and (more importantly) stops buying. Please, start today!

Posted by: waldmant | December 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

If Vinny Cerrato trades for or signs another big name wide receiver this offseason I will send him a lovely Pepperige Famrs gift basket and NOT sign the card.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 8, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

All blame goes to Vinnie, which is not really new news. Vinnie convinced Snyder that the next coach had to run a WCO in order to win. Therefore you gamble on the head coach, stack your draft choices to running a WCO. So, basically you change the offensive philosophy yet one more time and spend your currency (draft picks and FAs) for new system. Now here is the sand in the gears, the WCO is not working out this year, not in the NFC East, where in the end domination of the line of scrimmage is the key to winning most division titles. So what we are stuck with is with Vinny having to justify his choice of offensive systems by laying all of his chips down on the wide receivers who have not worked as planned. Next draft, I fear, will be spent on Vinny still trying to validate his choice of the WCO. You will see an imbalance once again on the offensive personnel moves, (running backs?) at the cost of other team needs.

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

"returned the defensive scheme

Are you on drugs? Do you honestly think that Blache is running the same Defensive Scheme as Gregggggggggg Williams?"

Yes, he is. It's been well documented. Laron Landry is playing the same 30-yards off the ball, cover-1 scheme that Gregg implemented last season with ST, then shifted over to LL to end the season. It's the same terminology as well. All Blache did was take over gameplanning and playcalling duties (which by all accounts he's actually been better than Gregg, IMO).

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Joe Gibbs started his rookie year 0 and 5 then finised 8 and 8. Lets give Zorn a chance and some crdit. with a new system and rookie coach, this is about where i figured we would be.

Posted by: drumer1972 | December 8, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

"The only way to end this trainwreck is iff everybody stops caring and (more importantly) stops buying. Please, start today!"


Practice what you preach....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

The fact that this team has averaged less than 11 points per game in it's last five games.

That's not going to get "righted" in 3 games, this is the whole point that you're missing.

The offense has "regressed" because the OL is a bunch of 35 year-old men who probably shouldn't be playing OL that much anymore, if at all. They looked good at the beginning of the year because they were fresh. But then the games started to take their toll, they got tired, and now they are getting injured.

How do you, psp, in your infinfinite wisdom, suggest that Jim Zorn "Right" this predicament in 3 games? We all know that there is no magic wand he can wave to make his OL younger and deeper. Yet, you insist that there is something he can do to "right" this lest he be fired in his first year.

So, I'm just wondering, since you seem to have all of the answers - what would you do as HC to "right" the offense?

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

"Now here is the sand in the gears, the WCO is not working out this year, not in the NFC East, where in the end domination of the line of scrimmage is the key to winning most division titles"

When Philly won all those division titles, what kind of offense were they running??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

If Vinny Cerrato fails to address the lines this offseason, I will take his mother, Dorothy Cerrato, out to a lovely seafood dinner and then NEVER call her again.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Brick, where did you get a hand grenade?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Regardless of what YOU expected (even if it was reasonable), it was NOT what the offseason was tailored for. Snyder and Cerrato thought they had 1-2 year winning combo. There was no rebuilding involved, other than the FORCED signing of a new head coach due to Gibbs stepping down. From that point on, the team went in the direction that they thought had the best shot at winning.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Now maybe low expectations should have been in order for a green HC. But the simple fact is that they weren't low. This was not a rebuilding year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

It SHOULD have been / SHOULD be a rebuilding year. It was the asinine proclomation of Snyder to talk about "continuity" and for Cerrato to talk about "getting back to the playoffs"; and then deciding to install a rookie head coach with a new offensive scheme and new coaches. This stupid cut-and-paste approach was a bit ambitious and it's not working.

The question next year will be whether or not they are truly committed to a rebuilding project. If they are we will see a host of "core" Gibbs-veterans out the door (Jansen, Springs, Washington, Thrash). If not, we will see more cutting and pasting...

Posted by: p1funk | December 8, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Yes, he is. It's been well documented.

Where?

This is the 2nd time you have used this line. Your only example is that a safety is playing deep, that's hardly an example at all.

Gregggggggg blitzed all of the time, and ran zone coverage. By most accounts, Blache generally rushes 4 and couvers man-to-man. They even moentioned this last night.

So, if it has been so "well documented" as you assert, then I would love to see a link or something to all of this documentation...

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,

The Giants do not run the WCO, Dallas does not run the WCO, the Redskins when they used to win division titles did not run the WCO. Do you think the Eagles are going to win any more division titles with their WCO?

Posted by: driley | December 8, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

So yeah, definetly fire Zorn, that will solve all the problems. Fire Zorn, trade for DJ Hackett, and DEMAND that the team play at a 'torrence level' from here on out.....that will solve everything.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Chris Samuels DONE for the year.

Posted by: Zornado | December 8, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

We could have Joe Montana at quarterback and it wouldn't make a difference with the way the offensive line is playing. It's ridiculous to think that putting in a rookie quarterback with NO NFL experience would change things. The failures of the offense isn't all Jason Campbell.

Posted by: stwasm | December 8, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

this team has been pathetic for... how many weeks now??? Campbell can't even set to throw. No one gets separation to get open. Can't run the ball. can't even sniff the other teams quarterback. They routinely get 4 seconds to find someone open. This team will be lucky to win 1 more game.

Posted by: unkonchus | December 8, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Driley, I'll ask it again:

When Philly won all those division titles, what kind of offense were they running??

Here, you weren't man enough to answer it but they were running the WCO. That would be 4 titles 4 years in a row I believe. Name me another team that has done that lately from the NFC East.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

So yeah, definetly fire Zorn, that will solve all the problems. Fire Zorn, trade for DJ Hackett, and DEMAND that the team play at a 'torrence level' from here on out.....that will solve everything.

Your plan has one fatal flaw, you forgot to start Colt Brennan. Your plan solves nothing without starting Colt.

He's the future, just ask the UPS man he was throwing against how good Colt is when he delivers your Xmas gifts this year.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 8, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I am all for patience while this team learns for a off season. But damn its grating on the nerves.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

"So, I'm just wondering, since you seem to have all of the answers - what would you do as HC to "right" the offense?

Posted by: VTDuffman"

I don't know, that's why I'm not a head coach.

Certainly, I agree that Zorn was not helped whatsoever by his personnel situation. However, he hasn't helped himself either. He almost refuses to make adjustments. Even in his own words, the problem is "execution." 3rd down, you lose your premeir pass-protector, you bring in a back-up center that's never played tackle before, and you leave him 1-on-1 against one of the league's premier pass-rushers? And he's complaining about execution?

You're never going to have the better matchup in every position on the field. That's not going to happen. It's not just the personnel issue that has Zorn's offense stymied. The Ravens were reading Zorn's plays even before the ball was snapped. That offense had no shot to begin with. He can give excuses all he wants about his players, but like Eddie Jordan for the Wizards, their performance always starts at the top.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

the shotgun formation we ran last night was some kind of hybrid shotgun. it still required jc to drop back 3 or 4 more steps before he set his feet. that was one issue. the other was not countering their pressure by going to more 2 tight end sets to give help on those outside blitzes. the play where samuels went out and his replacement was left one-on-one with suggs was horrible. he basically vaulted the guy into jc. and for those calling for heyer to replace jansen got what they wanted and that hold where he tackled a guy was awful. while we're bringing in dl & ol, bring in punters and kickers in the offseason too. we will need to ba active in free agency this summer.

Posted by: gregskins | December 8, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

When Philly won all those division titles, what kind of offense were they running??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 10:10 AM |

I know I know please call on me.

What is the WCO

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

the problem is our o-line is built to run, anyone remeber that when AL saunders came and started passing to much how terrible we looked and then Joe gibbs went back to running more.

same thing here our o-line is built for running with moderate throwing,anything over 20 passes a game and they will get abused.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 8, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn. Bring back Gregg Williams. The team is a reflection of its coach ... and right now that's a nice guy who is in over his head.

Posted by: CryoGen | December 8, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

We can not blow up this team. JC is our best hope for a quarterback and you can not spend another 3 years developing another quarterback. We don't have the time nor the patience to bring in someone new.

THIS IS CRAZY!!!
Did you see Matt Ryan play yesterday? Flacco? The right guy will work regardless of when and JC just is not that guy.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Anyone notice that vinny isnt on his usual radio show this morning?

Posted by: rambo2000 | December 8, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

"He put a double move on me, not much I can do about that"

Thanks Carlos.

Posted by: yellow_jacket98 | December 8, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Contrary to JLC's post, the struggle in the 4th quarter was nothing new. The Dallas game ended the exact same way when we couldn't stop Barber. This team is just built poorly in all three areas, but that's what we should expect from an organization that has no clue.

Posted by: StrugglinSkinsFan | December 8, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Here's how it looks to me:

1. To beat that dead horse, the Redskins struggle EVERY year because it is dysfunctional at the top. Snyder has never been willing to remove himself from his personal toy which is the team (and i suppose if any of us joes could afford to buy the Redskins it would be hard to resist meddling) which means he keeps Cerrato who is unqualified to be a GM (or whatever his title is) but is willing to be the yes-man for Snyder. As a result, the Team is unable to make consistent decisions that make FOOTBALL SENSE (for ex., letting Pierce and Clark go, opting to renew contracts on aging veterans and over-rated free agents, failing to draft well if at all, optiong to keep tired vets while casting off promising rookies (Marcus Mason), drafting the "best player" on the board rather than for "need" even if that means 2 WR's and a TE. You get the idea. Until Danny butts out and gets a real GM with power to hire and fire people without regard to sentimentality or fan popularity or jersey sales figures, there is little hope that the Redskins will ever be better than mediocre. Get used to it or stop buying tickets and Redskins gear since that is the only thing Danny seems to understand.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Here's how it looks to me:


2. Why did it take the Team so long to hire someone? Because every other PROVEN head coach knew that the Redskins HC job meant sharing control with Snyder/Cerrato as part of the deal and that is unacceptable to the best coaches. So they found Zorn, who was willing to take the gamble and hope that he could compensate for the dysfunctional FO (see #1 above). Zorn has always been a high risk coaching gamble. Zorn didn't have Gibbs' pedigree to tell Snyder when to butt out so it would take a miracle for him to succeed here. Unfortunately, Zorn is not a miracle worker, just a not-yet-ready-for- prime-time offensive mind. He has not shown that he can make adjustments, either to defenses (he keeps running the same things week after week) or to his personnel (keeping Campbell under center when Campbell stinks at drop back passing). Does Zorn deserve to stay on as HC? Impossible to answer because there is no way to know whether his hands are being tied by FO or whether ANY coach could come in to this Team and consistently win with all the handicaps placed on them by Snyder. (And a little dose of reality here folks: if Zorn goes, there is NO chance that anyone better is going to take the job so long as Snyder insists on playing GM).

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Here's how it looks to me:


3. J. Campbell? Could be a decent QB SOMEWHERE in the NFL. But only with a solid O line AND from the shotgun primarily. So we have 2 choices: we either wait for the day that the Team figures out how to get a good OL (which is probably NEVER, see #1) and in the meantime commit huge salary to keep JC who will continue to struggle, or we find a new coach like B'more who somehow has figured out how to take someone like Flacco ( Flacco ??!!!!!) and generate offense in spite of his many flaws (see, however #2 above re coaching change, alas). Yes, if we lose this week to the Bungles and finally shred all hopes of playoffs, we could use the last 2 games to see what we have in Colt Brennan-- afterall, Reid benched all pro McNabb just to see what he had with their rookie QB and the Eagles are on a 2 game win streak; sometimes shaking things up elevates performance. But this, we know, will not happen at the Redskins because...well, see #1 yet again.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Here's how it looks to me:


4. We have a pretty good defense. And don't bother quoting stats and rankings. Stats in the NFL are next to meaningless because they are not weighted to the strength of opponents. (That's why, for example, mediocre Shaun Alexander could rack up huge stats because he had 6 games each season against horrible NFC West teams). The proof is on the field season long and we have SEEN that our Defense does a good job of keeping opponents from scoring lots of points. But they are not a great defense. They do give up big plays on occasion and they cannot last 4 quarters when the Offense is going 3 and out all game long. This is all the more amazing when you consider that there is no real pass rush. Opposing QB's have all day to find a receiver and yet, when it gets down to the Red Zone, have a hard time scoring TD's. All this is to say, if we could ever get even a cardboard cut-out of an Offense, we could win more games with the Defense as is. That said, to echo others here, we can jettison the big contract players who either can't stay healthy despite their "intense off-season training" in Arizona (Springs) or don't produce on the field (J. Taylor). D Hall, whatever his past problems, came to this team and has done nothing but produce on the field; he is worth keeping.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

And, finally, Here's how it looks to me:

5. Is it too much to ask that the Team insert in the rookie contracts a requirement that the rookie comes to camp in July IN SHAPE and ready to go? And tie some or all of their signing bonus/salary to that? The fact that all of the top picks came in out of shape is a DISGRACE to FO. And, yes, see #1 again.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Last week it's, "Campbell sucks, put in Collins", this week is "Zorn sucks, get a new HC". These fans remind me of a certain GM who seems to lack the knowledge of putting together a good draft. These fans seem to lack good football knowledge as well. So the season is over even though we have 7 wins and 3 games to go. You need to relax and stop with these crazy rants. You make all the sensible Redskin fans look bad.

I said this after week 1; we haven't drafted a defensive lineman in the 1st round since 1997. We haven't drafted an offensive lineman in the 1st round since 2000. What do you think is going to happen come December and you're playing a top defense? You got it, Campbell has no time to throw the ball and the run game can't get going. On defense the opposing QB has 10 seconds on almost every down to find an open receiver.

No 1st round picks in 03', 06’ and 08'. Don't you think drafting lineman with those picks would help us today? Guess Vinnie and Danny don't. All Zorn can do is play the players that are on his roster. All Campbell can do is throw the ball to the receivers on his team.

I've been watching this team almost every season this decade, give away their draft picks and it's showing today that you need to have depth at every position. Look at what the Giants have done. Vinnie and Danny really need to steal their blueprint on how to build a team. Even if the Skins squeak into the playoffs, these areas need to be addressed ASAP this offseason. Go SKINS!

Posted by: trueredskinsfan | December 8, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I've been watching this team almost every season this decade, give away their draft picks and it's showing today that you need to have depth at every position. Look at what the Giants have done. Vinnie and Danny really need to steal their blueprint on how to build a team. Even if the Skins squeak into the playoffs, these areas need to be addressed ASAP this offseason. Go SKINS!

Posted by: trueredskinsfan | December 8, 2008 11:04 AM |


Ditto. And, yes, see #1 above.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 8, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

How nervous did flacco look when he threw the 28 yard touchdown pass to derrick mason? Being at the game it sure looked like flacco throw the ball where his receivers should catch it. the landry pick was the same route mason caught earlier but for once a redskin db made a good play on the ball. problem was we wasted too much time trying to get mcgahee into the game. Good news for skins both mcgahee and boller will be available for next year! Get the chopper warmed up!

don't bother comparing campbell to flacco, when the more appropriate comparison is to boller. Ravens have a good organization from the owner on down which translates to on the field success. The skins have none of this and it shows on the field.

Stop giving the danny your money and spend it with a winner up 95!

Posted by: jdb70 | December 8, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

"The only way to end this trainwreck is iff everybody stops caring and (more importantly) stops buying. Please, start today!"

hear, hear.

Posted by: thickman22 | December 8, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Football is a game that is won in the trenches. Your best teams in the NFL start from the lines and move from there. Going into this season, it was obvious that we were going to have some problems on the DL because they really haven't made any upgrades there since they brought Carter in. The defense's scheme is about the best you can work with considering the personnel. The Skins went into 2007 relying on corner and DB play. They got weaker here with the permanent loss of Taylor but their D-Line had it's best year 4 years ago in the 2004 season. They played pretty good in 2005 but there has been a decline in play since, 2006 because of injuries, 2007 they played good but did not have a decent pass rush and this year, the pass rush has been suspect at best and as they wear down each game, they keep getting gashed by the run. Same holds true for the O-Line. They need to focus in this area this off-season. It's important that they address this both through FA and through the draft for the next 2 seasons. It's imperative because you have to have lines to win in this league and the Skins have a lot of dollars tied up in both O & D lines right now and they are going to have to make adjustments. The team has played over it's head this year but it's a physical game and they are experiencing what it's like to not have the depth to take over. That's why the draft is imperative for lineman for the next two years.

Posted by: JWPinCHI | December 8, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

This is ridiculous, we are a freaking joke!! The only starting linemen we should keep are Samuels,Kendall, Rabach(seems like he gets manhandled every play by bigger DT's) and Thomas.The only problem with keeping Kendall is that he is old, and Thomas seems a step slow to me. I would not be surprised if Zorn was fired, I dont think he should be but he very well might. I wonder has he lost the lockeroom?

Posted by: bmuh00 | December 8, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

We need a mammoth DT who demands double teams on the Defensive line. Maybe with a better push the DE would be more effective. Secondary is fine, release Springs, resign D Hall. Let Marcus Washington go and sign a LB either Free Agency(dont break the bank) or the Draft.The more games I watch, it becomes more apparent we Suck Royally!

Posted by: bmuh00 | December 8, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I would not be surprised if Zorn was fired, I dont think he should be but he very well might. I wonder has he lost the lockeroom?

Posted by: bmuh00

Don't fire Zorn!
WTF does he have to do? He calls the plays, the players don't execute them. He has terrible lines on both sides of the ball.
This lost the lockeroom crap sounds lame to me. I remember not too long ago, Tom Coughlin wasn't very popular in the lockeroom, now look at him.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Can we PLEASE cut Suisham and Plackemeier? There are many college programs that have a better kicking game than the Redskins. Suisham flat out stinks. What pro kicker is short from 43 yards? His missed turned around the Seattle playoff game last year and his ho-hum response to that is very telling. We need to get someone in here who cares.

Posted by: Kirk1962 | December 8, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Trade Samuels and Rogers. Maybe we can get a few bottles of gatorade for them. Rebuild now!!!

Posted by: eyebran | December 8, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Trade Samuels and Rogers. Maybe we can get a few bottles of gatorade for them. Rebuild now!!!

Naw - you wouldn't get anything for Samuels, and you've got to keep Rogers. But yes, we need more draft picks to rebuild - I'd trade Portis if I could.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | December 8, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Last night there was a TV close up of Jason Taylor laughing on the sidelines and the Skins down 14 - 0. Are these the type of players we want playing for the redskins??. Painful and embarrassing

Posted by: eyebran | December 8, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Another Monday Morning H-Fart- BRPBRBBBBBBBRRRRIPP!!! (we should can this stuff and sell it to Ft. Detrick)...Football is dynamic and Zorn doesn't seem to get that defenses have got the Skins number, Campbell's internship is played out regardless of the O-lines woes, Doray Amagato, Mr. Cerrato, but time for you to go, your personnel choices smell of the Monday Morning H-Fart and we need a draft in this room..

Posted by: frak | December 8, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I dont know about everyone else but I am tired of management mixing and matching veteran players. Even if we had made the playoffs we would be gone after one game. I feel it is time to take a step back and gut this team except for the young guys and veteran studs. No more mediocraty. I am willing to lose for 2 years so we can become a serious contender down the road, like great teams do. No pass rusher since Charles Mann. Come on dammit, its not that hard!!!!

Posted by: rdskns1975 | December 8, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

TS alfabet,

TS stands for Trans Sexual right? So Vinny wants to know Pre or Post Op?

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The team simply played with no heart last night. There was no urgency or desire to win... no sense that this was a must-win game.

The offense clearly has no confidence or belief that whatever the hell they worked on in practice is going to work. JC looks like he just goes through the motions and if it doesnt work, then oh well. Granted the O-line gives him no time, but his reaction time is too slow in ALL ASPECTS of his game. He doesnt have good quarterback instincts, and that is something that just can't be taught.

It was also disheartening to hear him after the game blame the poor play on the injuries to the O-line. Where is the fire? Where is the anger? Where is the will to win? If I was JC, I would be really pissed after last nite. He seemed content on blaming the injuries.

I want a quarterback that plays with heart and holds himself accountable. JC is not the guy.

Posted by: zloss126 | December 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Few observations from attending the game last night:

1. Mike Sellers can't block. Although everyone says he has a great heart, that's only when HE gets the ball. He missed blocks on TWO Ravens that caused JC to get sacked. In another instance, when Betts ran the ball, he just sat back in the backfield. He's not even trying to block. That's what makes CP a great all around back. And that's why he should have stayed in the game.

2. I think this sort of apathy has spread to the entire team. They only appear to excel when the play goes to them. Otherwise, it looks like they are taking plays off.

3. I think Zorn is very incompetent. Redskins got called for a delay of game one time. Afterwards, I was watching my TV and saw Zorn trying to call in another play for 20 seconds. they had to call a timeout. That is ridiculous.

4. I really don't think JC is the answer. He looks very lethargic out there. Everybody dismisses putting in Colt Brennan stating that he is not the answer and what has he done? Excuse me, what has JC ever done?

I am BOTH and Ravens and Redskins fan because I was born in DC and raised in the Baltimore suburbs. However, I root for the Skins when the two are headup.

The Skins are definitely not exciting. I was very pessimistic even when they were 6-2. It was a very unsatisying 6-2. And I was constantly annoyed with Zorn's "STAY MEDIUM" Neither Zorn nor JC have a history of success. Those who want at least another year to see what they can do. It'll be pretty much the same as this year. JC is definitely NOT built for this system. Zorn spent way too much time trying to convert JC. As we all know, when under pressure, we all revert back to what we do best. Whether it is topping off a golf shot when we know we are supposed to keep our heads down. JC will naturally revert to the style that makes him incompatible with the this offense. Either keep Zorn or JC, but not both.

Posted by: TerpFan4Life | December 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

In a remarkable insightful moment ,the ref called "Not enough men on the line" against the Redskins..This could have been called on the defense , as well...We've got to find Bobby Fischer rooks on both sides of the chessboard..

Posted by: frak | December 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

A number of people posting here seem to know for certain either that Colt Brennan is good or that he sucks. How? He has played a few downs in a couple of preseason games. Maybe he's great, maybe he's not. Wasn't Favre a backup at first? I'm not saying he's Favre either... I'm saying NOBODY knows if this guy is going to be fantastic or the next Heath Shuler. He's on the bench now and that's where he's going to stay until the next time he has a chance to battle JC (or others) for the starting spot. Throwing him in there right now would be lunacy. If he gets in a game right now it should be because JC gets hurt. And I would say bypass TC in that case and use the chance to at least get some kind of regular season evaluation of him.

Posted by: fan-o-matic | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Does Chris Cooley still play on this team? It is hard to belive that he gets only one catch. When the team wins he gets about 5 catches. The line does not block. Campbell holds the ball too long and has the team at the line too long before the snap.

Posted by: Sunman23 | December 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Fan-o-matic,

It may not be lunacy for them to put CB in there, especially if the Skins lose the next one. I would argue that putting JC in there is lunacy, with TC having a better track record. You have to put in the rookie and have him take his lumps and see what he can do, otherwise, it sets him back a year. Remember that although Eli got destroyed his 1st year in the league, he did play. And look at him now. Look what Flacco is doing in Baltimore. He may not be great but he is doing better than JC with much less talent on offense

What harm would it do to put in Colt? Lose the confidence of the players? Already happened. Lose playoff contention? Already happened. And even if we make the playoffs, we would get DESTROYED in round 1. Lose JC's confidence? Boo hoo.

Posted by: TerpFan4Life | December 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Come on, guys!!!!

Colt Brennen is not a pro quarterback. Playing him in any game could set the team back even further than it is now. If you ever see him playing in a regular season game, the Skins will have it rock bottom.

Funny how some of you fail to recognize what a waste of a pick this was. He played for June Jones in Hawaii! The same mindset that led to Dion Sanders becoming a Redskin (BTW: I would take his single year performance here at corner over Rogers career anyday), led to the drafting of this kid. I picture the "front office" watching Hawaii dismantle the likes of Colarado State and agreeing it would be "cool" to have Colt Brennen on the team. He's nothing more than Wuerffel was at FL.

If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the Skins future moves / prospects / line-ups, it should never include the name Colt Brennen.

Please, put it to rest.

Posted by: plorell | December 8, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

We need the best lineman available at the slot were we draft. Period. We have skill players but not the beasts up front.

Posted by: jandlml | December 8, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

There are multiple issues (all explained above) but the most pressing thing for the last three years is lack of depth on the lines. Had the 'Skins added a big Nose Tackle on the D and two young tackles on the O and this team is 9-4 now, maybe better.

This will not go away. Draft linemen, sign linemen. Don't make me look like a broken record again next season!

PS - LINEMEN!!!

Posted by: stevebeagrie | December 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

The fact is, we made a huge mistake not drafting O lineman. Blame Cerrato for that. The Play calling is horrible. No pass rush at all.. FOR THE LAST 5 SEASONS!!! I am sick of it. This team better pull their heads out because you cannot bulid from the ground up with an offensive line as old and as BAD as ours.. PERIOD!

Posted by: plawton68 | December 9, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Three things the Redskins have to do. Fire Cerrato! Fire Bugel.. love the guy, but teams are throwing more than the 84 Raiders at us. DRAFT AND AQUIRE A NEW OFFENSIVE LINE UNIT! We have to do this. We have no chance of even competing in this league if we do not.

Posted by: plawton68 | December 9, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

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