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Monday Morning H-Back

I'm writing this on a prop plane Sunday night, so let's just plow through this like a team with playoff aspirations grinding out a win against a 1-11-1 opponent. Okay, bad example, but you get the idea.

Let's get the playoff issue out of the way. They're not getting in. I'm suspending playoff talk from RI. Sure, mathematically they're alive, but they haven't beaten a quality opponent since what, October? Sorry, we're not going there.

Next, let's talk about the elephant in the blogroom. Reports, rumors and hints at the demise of Jim Zorn will be common as this season winds down. With other owners, perhaps not so much, but we all realize this is no ordinary franchise.

So, let's review. In January, Vinny Cerrato and Daniel Snyder decided they wanted to go with a West Coast style offense before hiring a coach. They hired coordinators after that, in a backwards fashion, and then were inflexible about scrapping those guys. That led to at least one candidate - Steve Spagnuolo - wanting no part of the gig. And, with Cerrato now the most powerful person in the organization, the Bill Cowhers and Pete Carrolls of the world - guys who have the swag to run the entire show - weren't likely to come here, either.

Zorn, then, was the hire, with anyone who has spent time around football knowing that it generally takes two or three years for an offense to adapt to the West Coast scheme. The development of quarterback Jason Campbell was one of the paramount factors in the hiring of Zorn in February, as multiple candidates have said. They knew that this might be their last chance to get it right with their potential franchise passer after all the turmoil and turnover in the staff since he was drafted in the first round in 2005.

So now, after just one season, all of that goes out the window? If you scrap Zorn and his staff, you might as well scrap JC. And good luck finding another truly qualified coach who would take this staff as is, with Zorn included. It doesn't work that way. If this guy had a track record as a coach, and if he had a sufficient roster, and if he were failing to meet his own past standards, that would be significant. But there were no standards with Zorn. He hadn't don't anything close to this job. He was allowed to pick a staff without other experienced passing coordinators and this is where they are.

Snyder and Cerrato, when they did speak, spoke of continuity and cohesion above all else. Would firing a coach after 16 games engender either of those? It made sense to tear up the roster and rebuild last year, with a novice head coach, and try to grow something then. If you do the right thing and start to rebuild your team at the line of scrimmage, and try to go with youth, then you might as well give this coach a chance to get better with them and bring in people that fit the bigger picture down the road.

You definitely want to be finishing strong and have a better-looking team in the final quarter of the season than in the first. That won't be the case this year, but the Redskins will never end a cycle of rot and uncertainty and lack of execution by highly paid players if they constantly fire the coach. The problems are more complex than that and it seems unlikely that anyone else could win with this organization as it is presently structured.

Now...on to the game.

Offensively, it's nothing new, but, the makeshift offensive line aside, this was a game in which Clinton Portis needed to make a play. Three yards per carry on 25 attempts against one of the more horrid defenses won't cut it. He wanted to be in on third down, then dropped a key pass. He didn't make an explosive play - nothing even close to Cedric Benson's 79-yard scamper. A long of 10 yards when your passing game is this anemic? Not good enough. Not close.

Everyone was clamoring to just run the heck out of Portis, but they forget that he isn't the healthy guy who started the year on a tear. He's been battered and beaten up and has slowed down. There's a reason Zorn hasn't just put him down for 30 carries a game (beyond his inability to practice and the team falling behind early).

The stats on Portis's last six games: 104 carries for 393 yards (3.78 per carry/well below NFL average) with no touchdowns and no runs longer than 22 yards.

And we all know this unit isn't good enough to overcome early turnovers. Portis fumbled last week and Chris Cooley's fumble was a crusher Sunday. In the last three games, the Skins have had opening drives that ended with a punt, an interception and a fumble. Their opponents have opened each of those games with touchdowns. Lights out.

The Redskins started the season by going five games without an offensive turnover. Then came reality. They have 16 turnovers in the last nine games, and with their defense creating precious few turnovers, that's how a season slips away. That's not coaching. That's on the players.

As for coaching, I've said before that Iron Mike Sellers is terrific, but on yards after the catch, not on carries. He is not good in short yardage. He often leaps while behind the line of scrimmage and his spatial awareness suffers. He's prone to coughing it up around the goal line. No way am I feeding him twice in a row. Put Betts behind him and give that combo two or three cracks in a row.

Otherwise, except for lacking any deep thrust, again, I thought Zorn had a good plan for keeping his quarterback from getting mauled behind that line, getting Santana Moss involved a lot and rolling out Campbell to get balls to Cooley and others, and avoid the rush. They just failed again in the red zone, where, as we know, they have no size beyond Cooley.

The kid receivers gave them nothing, combining for one catch. Could someone explain again why Malcolm Kelly wasn't placed on the injured reserve list at the start of the season? It certainly seemed from Zorn's remarks before the roster was set that he liked the idea.

Over the last six games, the Skins have scored on five of 18 red-zone trips. There's your lack of points right there. On offense and defense, they lack playmakers and personnel to create mismatches that would win third down. In the last six games, the Skins offense is 26-for-85 on third-down conversions (30 percent) and it was just 4-for-14 at Cincy.

With Moss unable to find seams in the Cover-2 and no complimentary weapons and a weak line, the deep game is gone. The Redskins do not have a pass over 30 yards since the 50-yard TD strike to Moss in Detroit. That's six full games and 218 pass attempts. Moss didn't have a TD reception in five straight games before getting one Sunday. (The shoe polishing thing was cute ... and irritating. Moss is a team leader, his team was getting whacked by the Bengals and needed every yard it could muster and he does that? Moss is better and smarter than that. Wrong place, wrong time. With a 24-0 lead and Moss having a breakout game, it would have been a nonfactor.)

As for the defense, that's pretty much a broken record, too: no pass rush, no big plays, nobody able to capitalize on errant passes and balls hanging in the air. There hasn't been a defensive touchdown since October 2007. The Redskins haven't had a shutout since September 1991, which I find stunning. The Bengals were actually calling designed quarterback scrambles against the Redskins, players said, which is pretty rare. That shows how little they feared the front four.

It was a surprise that they opted to exile Carlos Rogers and, as we wrote at the time, the signing of DeAngelo Hall is going to make things interesting around here. Not only is that a tricky dynamic, I'm not sure whether Hall will want to stay here; it's hard to play press man with no pass rush. Rogers' contract extension, or lack thereof, will be another offseason subplot.

But the biggest problem with this defense - even bigger than letting Ryan Fitzpatrick get out of there unscathed and with a 90 passer rating; even bigger than letting a slow running back get 79 yards on an obvious screen while playing Cover-2 - was the last Cincinnati scoring drive. That can't happen. It was like Baltimore all over again (though not just all running plays). The Bengals held the ball for 8 minutes and scored, just as the Ravens did.

Cincy had the ball for 10:48 in the fourth quarter. That's unfathomable. Baltimore had it for 10 minutes. Dallas had it for 10:50 in that loss. The Redskins don't' have the horses to get it done, they don't have young playmakers on defense and they probably have the least productive group of defensive ends in the NFL. It's kind of a big problem.

Gregg Williams put this defense into place in 2004 based on the linebackers making plays. Greg Blache has toned it down, simplified it and makes far fewer calls, but many principles remain. Yet this group of linebackers has 2½ sacks, one interception, five forced fumbles and no fumble recovery. Like many of the woes on offense, that's not all coaching. You either have big-play guys in their prime (not overpaid 35-year-olds fresh off "Dancing with the Stars") or you don't.

Blache is hamstrung, too. He's got Chris Horton at least, but the rest of the additions have been comical in their lack of production. Kudos to him for at least looking at fringe guys like Kareem Moore, Alfred Fincher, H.B. Blades, etc. It's time to truly evaluate for the future.

Let's address the draft. The Redskins are carrying 22 draft picks on their roster; nine are from this draft class. There aren't even three players from any other draft class from the past 10 years represented on the roster. Why is that, given that there's no empirical evidence of a contribution from this year's class, save for Horton?

The Skins have four players on the entire roster who were drafted beyond Round 3 from 1999-2007, yet everyone from Rounds 4-7 made the team this season out of camp, and only failed punter Durant Brooks has been let go. That's been more than curious. What have they contributed? And how are you going to continue to "build" through the draft after trading away something like four picks from next April's draft already?

As for special teams, five critical penalties and a kickoff out of bounds are unforgivable, especially with the penalties erasing some nice work by Moss in the return game. At this point, he should be returning every punt. It's the best/only option for winning field position and scoring points.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 15, 2008; 8:44 AM ET
 
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Comments

firstly, our team sucks

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I will say this, although I don't feel like Zorn will be a special coach in this league (although he may improve dramatically, who knows), I have cooled on the thought of firing him this quickly.

The only person I would advocate firing Zorn for is Bill Cowher at this point, because he may be the only viable guy in this league that Snyder would trust to hand over executive management to. If we can't get BC, then I'd probably say to stick with Zorn. (This opinion is also due in part to the fact that IF Snyder fires Zorn so quickly, virtually no young up-and-coming coach, like Spags, would trust Snyder for their first HC job). So if we can't get someone like BC, then Zorn should stay.

However, I agree with Greg that he MUST have some help acquired on the offense, coaching-wise. Somebody must be brought in to mentor his playcalling and his ability to adjust to defenses. Are there any other former WC head coaches or playcallers out there that can accomplish this? Anybody that would be willing to work as an OC for Zorn? Maybe someone like Marriucci? Just throwing some ideas out there.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

"getting Santana Moss involved a lot and rolling out Campbell to get balls to Cooley and others"

I disagree with this statement. He did not get the ball to ANYONE but Cooley and Moss in the passing game, much as has happened ALL YEAR LONG. No one else had more than 1 catch. This offense is BEYOND PREDICTABLE....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

We suck!

Posted by: isonic1 | December 15, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

what's this about exiling Carlos Rogers?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Very good post JLac.

It remains statistically dumbfounding to me that everyone Vinnie drafted this year made this team. This is an example of something close to Papal Infallability.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I thought it classy for No-Winny Vinny to cancel his Monday show after the Skins were eviscerated by a one-win team. He was all too anxious to play DJ when the Skins were the darlings of the NFC East.

This organization (not just team) has no focus and lacks a productive identity.

Posted by: bmo63 | December 15, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

In January, Vinny Cerrato and Daniel Snyder decided they wanted to go with a West Coast style offense before hiring a coach.
--------------------------------------------

Uh. This explains a lot. So they imposed a style that has never worked here before they hired a coach. I now know why other coaches spurned the Redskins. I don't blame them.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 15, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Spot on Jla;

ZIt never made sense why with a new passing game and same running game they only hired new coaches for the running game and kept everyone from the passing game.

But this is the time to not have a knee jerk reaction and fire Zorn. Let him bring in his people, stock picks. Give him time out of the gate (not a late hire 1st time coaching/play calling).

As you can see from he first 8 games we can be a good team, but the last 6 have shown how susceptible we are to injuries and lack of experience coaching. but Zorn wont get experience with out going through this. no more quick fixes. Ride Zorn out, get an experienced play caller in the WCO, change the running game and dump the old regime...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 15, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Also, was it just me, or did it seem like Fred Smoot had replaced Rogers as the nickel corner after Rogers gave up the TD to Chris Henry? Was I just imagining that? I didn't see Rogers again after that play.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Rogers has REGRESSED the last few weeks....he reverted back to the form that made him look like a bust. He needs to stay away from Smoot, and bury his face in some film work, and get his mojo back....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

The first few para graphs were well written, but it kind of went downhill from there.

Re: Why we don't have many draft picks?

Uh, we went through a coaching change every 1 (MArty) to 4 years (Gibbs) since 1999.

When you change coaches, you change strategy.

I see JLaC didn't want to put any blame to the coaches.

* Play calling over the last 7 games has been suspect.

* Game Management has been the worst since Giants week 1 when he didn't go to the hurry up in the 4th and he said something in his comments where he only thought he was down by 1 possesion, when it was really 2 (and people thought I was crazy for bringing that up back then).....

* We have 9 draft picks on this roster. You would ordinarily think that was a good theng, right? Come on......


Zorn Needs to be traded to the Seahawks. And we need to look at our defense more than our offense.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

And here is the really depressing part of the post--so if it takes 3 years to see if the WCO works for this team what happens if we find that it does not work? It sounds like a Politboro 5 year plan, and every 3 years there is a coup and you guessed it, another 5 year plan.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

You give Rogers, Smoot, and Hall a half-decent pass rush and they're top 2 or 3 secondary in the league, period.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Also, what yall think about trading a 2010 1st rounder for a 2009 first rounder?

This year's draft is STACKED with first round talent OL. You got great first round guards, tackles, and even a center (that yall may remember I'm big on).

I think it might be worth looking into.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I feel like getting rid of my season tickets. It just feels hopeless with Snyder as owner and Cerrato,seemingly entrenched for good, as his right hand man. It'll take years to turn this around with old players and overpaid diva's and showboaters on the squad.

Posted by: ridgely1 | December 15, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

for the record, we have traded 3 of our picks for next year's draft, not 4 as the post says.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

BOYCOTT THE PHILLY GAME.

Fellow Skins fans...b*tch all you want. Snyrato won't pay a bit of attention to a blog or a call-in show.

BUT THEY WILL CARE GREATLY IF OUR BELOVED PLAY IN AN EMPTY STADIUM NEXT WEEK.

Boycott the Philly game, if you want to be taken seriously.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Psps23 I agree with you about someone coming in to help Zorn right now he is wearing too many hats, as of now and all of them arent working. Mike Tomlin has guys who do all the work, and he basically just has to motivate and coach, same for Harbaugh in B-more, JZ should be in the same position, at least take away one of his responsibilities, but who knows with this franchise.

Posted by: skin4lfe22 | December 15, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

* We have 9 draft picks on this roster. You would ordinarily think that was a good theng, right? Come on......

Zorn Needs to be traded to the Seahawks. And we need to look at our defense more than our offense.........

Posted by: DaReal4th


And what are the total contributions of these 9 draft picks? That is the real bad thing if they are just taking up space, space that we could certainly have used with productive receivers, linemen, linebackers. It seems like other teams actaully find a way to have their draft picks contribute positively on the field while we stockpile them and refuse to see them for what they are--useless for this season.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Also, what yall think about trading a 2010 1st rounder for a 2009 first rounder?

Posted by: TheTruth11

Undoubtedly no. First, it would take multiple picks to get a 1st rounder in the upcoming draft. Second, that's the type of thing you do when you're one or two players away from being elite. Third, if the draft is stacked at a certain needed position, that may be the time to wait it out until your selection comes, instead of overextending yourself for a guy that's marginally better than what you would have been able to pick anyway.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn Needs to be traded to the Seahawks. And we need to look at our defense more than our offense.........

Posted by: DaReal4th "

Yeah our D has been the weakest part of this team...

Come on, do you even watch the games? Or at least look at the box scores?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I thought Laron Landry was a difference maker. Oh, wait, actually safeties are a dime a dozen, and don't make a difference unless your front four are dominant. That's why the Skins should have taken the big, young, athletic D-takle out of Louisville (can't remember his name), who is now on a playoff bound team. But no, this team is all about being flashy. It's like putting chrome on a Nissan Sentra. Give me a break.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | December 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

This is what you get with the Dan and Vinny show. Nothing has changed and it will not get better. He's impetuous, short-sighted, too involved and too loyal to a guy that doesn't have the skills to be a GM. Then again, he's probably doing what Dan tells him to do, even if he wants to go in another direction. If anyone in the FO deserves a chance at being the GM, it's Morocco Brown, who has a keen eye for talent and would probably be similar to the Giants Jerry Reese. If Snyder would just sit back and market the team and sign checks and let the football minds run the football side of the organization, there would be a chance at success but he's just unwilling to let go of his inner Jerry Jones. What's even more sickening is that the Pokes are practically fighting one another all week and they go out and beat the Giants. Pathetic. All I can think of is that idiot running into the locker room in Philly chanting and now his team is burning in flames again. You get what you deserve Danny Boy. This is your mess, when are you gonna clean it up?

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

IF WE PLAY PHYSICAL WE WIN

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I think its funny that the difference between us and Dallas is very telling. We both have weird unorthodox management, diva players who add locker room drama, ego driven money hungry owners, and suspect coaching.

The difference is that Dallas has talent and playmakers and we have neither. Which is the reason why they won and we lost yesterday.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Jason,
Please throw your shoes at Jim Zorn today at his press conference...

Posted by: Skins1 | December 15, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

On another note, i tried to exorcise some skins demon on sunday by burning my Lavar Arrington Jerseys (my kids jersey too). Smelled like crap.

Guess it didnt work.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 15, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Re: Why we don't have many draft picks?

Uh, we went through a coaching change every 1 (MArty) to 4 years (Gibbs) since 1999.

When you change coaches, you change strategy.

Posted by: DaReal4th

There are maybe 1 or 2 guys that were drafted and let leave that have been successful elsewhere. Regardless of coaching strategy, our overall drafted personnel have been average at best, both in sheer number of picks and average impact per pick. I wouldn't blame the lack of home-grown talent on having different coaching strategies throughout the years.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

In any instiution everything starts from the top, both good and bad and trickles down. The Redskin organization is a prime example of this basic business principle. It starts with Dan Snyder, his BFF, Jim Zorn, coaches and the players in that pecking order. Dan Synder needs to take a good hard look at how he runs this organization. He needs to hire a GM, Vinny does not cut it. There needs to be accountabiliy for everyone's part and no passing the buck. The same problems have plagued this organization for many, many years and it starts at the top with Dan Snyder and trickles down onto the football field. Until he wakes up and changes his approaches we will never return to the glory days.

Posted by: candyangle | December 15, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

In response to JLA's "(not overpaid 35-year-olds fresh off "Dancing with the Stars")" comment...

July 20, 2008:

Wow, Just Your Average First Day Of Camp, Eh?

Anyway, to me, this is a move the Skins had to make. You're talking about picking up dudes who can, most likely, barely play in the NFL, if at all, versus getting a future Hall of Famer and the premier sack guy in the league over the last 10 years. (Okay, maybe it's Strahan, but he's retired now.)

And Vinny Cerrato was ever-so-confident Taylor is more than a one-year rental, so that's huge, too. It was going to take a second-round pick to get him under these circumstances - the league knew the Skins were desperate as heck now, losing two DEs for the season right off the bat, including a starter.

Taylor will certainly have some entertainment-type stuff he wants to do in the offseason, but with his pedigree, he's earned that right. He's been remarkably healthy his entire career - hasn't missed a start this decade - and is still a beast at 33. You have to try to make this move; there's no one else out there and it was already a very thin spot of the roster even with a healthy Daniels.

The Skins had to act decisively and they did, but I'm not buying that they pulled this off in 45-60 minutes, as Cerrato tried to say, but in the end that doesn't matter. (For what it's worth, the Dolphins still will not confirm this deal as of 7:30).

Good for the Skins. Guys like Chris Wilson should learn a lot from Taylor, and it was a huge gamble banking on Daniels staying healthy all year as the starter in the first place, given his age and injury history.

Posted by: forever21 | December 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I thought the reporting on CP was about as spot on as could be. If EVER there was a game for this guy to come out and make a statement in, this was it. And yet nothing.....making matters worse was no one else even got an opportunity to do something. Betts got 2 carries...its like there is no plan B. Plan A doesn't work, so..........nothing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Zorn a motivator?

LOL...

Zorn's way of motivating his players is never taking blame for his F ups, or just flat out blame his players for the F ups.

Zorn a motivator? I think not.

It's clear that he has lost this locker room in his first season. The player's don't believe in him or the coaching peroid. I used to think that the defense was the only ones that seemed on board with the coaching - that they believed in the man (Blache) that was leading them; the Cincinnati game proved me wrong.

I said it last week that the 'Skins needed swagger, confidence, and instead of a chip - a boulder on their shoulder.

They have no confidence and swagger. That thing on their shoulder isnt nothing more than a measely crum.

I thought Moss was trying to instill that in them with his celebration. I thought it was a bad idea to use a towel, but I have NO problem with him celebrating even while down 10 - he was trying to instill "swag" in his team.

So, so hard to watch a team you really like to see do well just melt down in front of your eyes week after week - again.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

It might just be me, but any list of things we need to do in the offseason has to start with "GM." Otherwise, aren't we trusting Dan and Vinny to pick the right players (OL, DL, QB) and coaches? I have absolutely ZERO faith that they can do that successfully.

As a season ticket holder, I'm done buying food/drinks and gear until they get serious about winning.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

psp, I didn't mean trading up, I just mean swapping first rounders with someone where we get their 2009 first rounder and they get our 2010 first rounder. And we would be keeping our pick so we'd have two first rounders this year.

But in hindsight it seems kinda pointless, never know what we'll need next year.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins will be losers until they get someone in the front office besides Snyder and Cerrato. They need a person who knows football players and not just big name players. They need to quit wasting draft choices for players over the hill ala Brunell, Taylor. They could have had both these players without surrendering a draft choice. If you will recall Brunell was benched by Jax'ville and would have been released. Re Taylor, he was on the "outs" with Miami and likewise would have been released. A good GM would have waited and picked them up for a song. I think Snyder is trying to emulate Jerry Jones, Dallas. Snyder should remember he was just a "fan" who happened to become owner which doesn't result in instant knowledge of the game. Jones on the other hand has played football and is somewhat a bit more knowledgeable.
Replace both the offensive and defensive lines and we may see some victories. The only lineman not expendable is Samuels if he gets healthy again.
Put Cerrato on waivers.

Posted by: jokar21438 | December 15, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

All his silly diversification isn't helping either. He's well on his way to ruining Six Flags, Johnny Rockets and Tom Cruise too. Truth is he's a megalomaniac. He really is. And it's downright scary.

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Louisville (can't remember his name), who is now on a playoff bound team.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | December 15, 2008 9:30 AM

You're speaking about Okoye who is the starting DT for the Texans. The Texans are 7-7 and not going to the playoffs. That D is ranked 23rd in pts/game, 21st in yards, 18th is passing yards/games and 24th in rushing yards/game. Okoye has 17 total tackles this year.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"The difference is that Dallas has talent and playmakers and we have neither. Which is the reason why they won and we lost yesterday.

Posted by: Predator48"

The real difference is that Dallas has talented playcallers. As big of an idiot as Wade Phillips is, he's always been a stud defensive coordinator, and Jason Garrett is widely renowned around the league as one of the best young offensive minds in the game. Coaching cures a lot, as evidenced by Atlanta, Miami, and Baltimore.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

yall are all forgetting

THE BENGALS WERE THE BEST ONE WIN TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Betts got 2 carries...its like there is no plan B. Plan A doesn't work, so..........nothing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008

Bean, I was thinking the same thing watching the game yesterday. There isn't any adjustments at all, on either offense or defense - ever.

It seems that the coaching staff's idea of adjusting is to take a starter out, and replace him with a guy who isn't as talented.

It shows the overall stubborness and arrogance of the coaching staff.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

And what are the total contributions of these 9 draft picks? That is the real bad thing if they are just taking up space, space that we could certainly have used with productive receivers, linemen, linebackers. It seems like other teams actaully find a way to have their draft picks contribute positively on the field while we stockpile them and refuse to see them for what they are--useless for this season.
Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:27 AM

Well, you get 8 inactives and a few special teamers and one or 2 starters.

The thing is, Zorn seems to not like to play rookies.

Fread Davis, DThomas, AND Kelly can't play consistently up here? You gotta be SJKing me?!?!?

Rinnehart will start next year, and gieseinger might develop into a good back up. Moore and Horton seem to get it and we have had good practice squad players.

That's how I see our '08 draft. Maybe to many foggy glasses are being worn.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm still of the opinion that the pass catchers weren't bad picks. They haven't worked out this season but if they are part of a rebuilding plan, then I'm OK with them. It makes sense to draft receivers first because they tend to take longer to develop in the pros. The next step should be to address the lines through both the draft and free agency. If that happens, I can see this plan taking shape. If they go after Houshmanyadayadayada or some other flavor of the month receiver in the off season, then F them.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 15, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Why couldn't Snyder lost all his money in the Madoff Ponzi scheme and now be forced to sell to recoup his losses????

Posted by: chrislarry | December 15, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Wow! And now I find myself agreeing with Beantown in regards to CP and plan B.

I do think that plan B was to have Jason roll out and scramble all game long and look to be more of a runner.

CP put the spotlight squarely on himself for this game and it showed what he now is-- a running back 5 games out of his prime in this season. He has never been good for the entire season, you will get a max of 8 games from him. Plan B is to sit him on the bench for the other 8 games and play Betts if he is healthy so at least you will have one running back capable of breaking a play on the field. CP's tantrum last week did not help the team focus, did not help Zorn and only made the spotlight glare brighter on CP, which is all he wanted in the first place.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Yeah our D has been the weakest part of this team...

Come on, do you even watch the games? Or at least look at the box scores?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:30 AM


Lack of playmakers. The mix isn't right.

We lost a very important person who is basically irreplacable and it shows to me after looking at 14 games......

ST21 was great and he kind of made every unit appear better because of his physical talents. We were spoiled.

Now we gotta go out and get maybe 2-3 play makers to = 1 ST21.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

red, it absolutely BLOWS my mind. Betts gets no carries, and hasn't all year long. So even if they were going to the playoffs, CP is worn down to a knub, and out of gass. Again, no plan b. Betts is the best pass catching RB on the roster, yet, no passes went in his direction. Its like the chaos theory. 1 pass to ARE, 1 pass to Davis, Zero passes to Thomas, Zero passes to Betts.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

forever21,

Do you think being inept is okay as long as what you did didn't seem inept at the time you actually did it? Trading for Jason Taylor was a mistake, and a bad one. I don't care who said it looked like the right move at the time, plain and simple, it was not the right move. The Chargers don't get points for drafting Ryan Leaf because he seemed like the sure thing, and the Redskins shouldn't get points for trading for Jason Taylor along the same lines.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I think that now would be a good time to change the GM position. Because if Snyder is just going to fire Zorn, then he has to fire Cerrato too or nothing about this organization will change.

The smart move would be to change everything at the top of the organization after this season and hire a respected GM or a candidate from a respected organization.

Why? Because this would put the players and the coach on notice for next year, produce or its house cleaning time.

If by then no improvement is shown, the GM can make sweeping changes and start building a solid foundation for a winning frachise (see Atlanta Falcons). If a new coaching regime is required, the organization as a whole would be much more attractive to a prospective coach.

Right now, we look like a bass ackwards organization.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

No doubt I was praying that Ponzi scheme got Snyder.


Posted by: Gweez | December 15, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

The chickens are coming home to roost. Snyder and Vinny the Pasta Boy are reaping what they have sown over the last decade. It is laughable that there are posters opining about bringing in Cowher. NO established coach and NO rising star from the ranks of the assistants will ever touch this team. Only desperate retreads like Fassel will be in play. Synder and Vinny the Pasta Boy have infused this organization with putrid rot and stench. And they are cowards - two weeks in a row Vinny the Pasta Boy has refused to appear on RadioMoscow for the latest dose of propaganda and nonsense. But the fans keep coming back for more - lured by the lie of "next season" and "build for the future" and "stability." There is consistency - consistently bad play, bad judgment. There is only one solution - have the NFL place the organization in receivership and clean house.

Posted by: i155133 | December 15, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

The Danny should offer the Falcons GM (who came from New England last year) an offer that he can't refuse and get his butt in here to make a winner.

I'll trade Vinny to any team for a pack of cigarettes.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Well I tried to change your luck by not watching even a moment of yesterday's game. I guess that means it wasn't my fault you guys were losing after all.

I'm surprised the mood isn't uglier 'up here' today but then I haven't looked back through yesterday's threads, so maybe you're all in the 'acceptance' stage of grieving...

Posted by: Redcoat | December 15, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Uh, we went through a coaching change every 1 (MArty) to 4 years (Gibbs) since 1999.

When you change coaches, you change strategy.

Posted by: DaReal4th

There are maybe 1 or 2 guys that were drafted and let leave that have been successful elsewhere. Regardless of coaching strategy, our overall drafted personnel have been average at best, both in sheer number of picks and average impact per pick. I wouldn't blame the lack of home-grown talent on having different coaching strategies throughout the years.
Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:36 AM

Who has been doing the GM duties since 1999?

1999 - Casserly
2000 - Snyder/Vinny
2001 - MartBall
2002/03 - Spurrier/Snyder/Vinny to alesser extent
2004-2007 - Gibbs/Vinny to a lesser extent
2008-Beyond - Vinny (Snyder lurking)

So, just like different coaching strategies, you have different drafting strategies. No continuity.

I DO BLAME Vinny for picking Zorn and suggesting the WCO for this team, but maybe there is a long term that includes blowing it up and this is just phase 1 (Inserting coach, phase 2 being dumping players and getting in place for 2010 uncapped year)

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

As a longtime fan, I appreciate everyone offering draft suggestions and offseason personnel moves (that's what I'm tempted to do).

While trading picks/players to get stud lineman or two sounds great in theory, what makes you think we won't come out of it on the bottom as usual? I mean, this is the front office/owner that Shanahan held up for a second round pick when we traded him a hall of fame corner. Vinny and Dan stink at playing the 'game.' We're not going to fool any competent NFL GM.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 15, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Skins don't look bass ackwards, they ARE bass ackwards! So bad even Gibbs couldn't stomach another year of this crap. Who in their right mind hires the OC and DC before the HC? Who puts potential hires thru 2 days of interviews while having to stay at the Guest House? Zorn was a fallback, plain and simple. They had nowhere else to go with the draft rapidly approaching so they got stuck with choosing Zorn, hoping that Cowher would be available this coming season. He'll try again and he'll throw $100 mill at him too. And poor Cowher's rep will be ruined by 2011 if he takes it.

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Why couldn't Snyder lost all his money in the Madoff Ponzi scheme and now be forced to sell to recoup his losses????

Posted by: chrislarry | December 15, 2008 9:45 AM

Because he lost it all on Six Flags and Johnny Rockets.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

yall are all forgetting

THE BENGALS WERE THE BEST ONE WIN TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM

Truth,

You've been doing some good work up here lately. Hat's off to you. Keep it up.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder needs to recognize the problem. I can't believe he is so oblivious to it. He needs to hire a competent GM and let him clean house from top to bottom. He could probably get Scott Pioli to come here if he hands the organization to him and gets out of his way. He would be a great owner to work for if he would back off. Snyder would be better off in the long run in terms of $$$ as well.

Posted by: Skins1 | December 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Synder is the classic Nepoleon. Too bad we can't exile his behind!

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Vinny C's hit list:

Destroy Notre Dame: check
Destroy the 49ers: check
Destroy the Redskins: double check

It's time to organize against the Snyder/Vinny administration.

BOYCOT EVERYTHING REDSKINS

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 15, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

anyone know if Rocky was hurt, or benched during the game yesterday?

The Times is reporting he and Rogers were benched....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Seriously folks-

Danny and his kneepad-wearing boy Vinny don't give a f about what we have to say on a blog.

You want to get Danny's attention...DON'T GO TO THE F'ING GAME NEXT SUNDAY.

When he loses revenue, he will pay attention.

Until then, we're all just pissing into the wind.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

No doubt I was praying that Ponzi scheme got Snyder.


Posted by: Gweez | December 15, 2008 9:52 AM

Its Snyder who's put a Ponzi scheme on us fans. And we keep buyibg into it every year!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

WHAT? No Vinny Cerrato Good-Time Morning-Zoo this morning on Sportsjunk980? I'm so disappointed . . .

Posted by: mdean3 | December 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

oops I meant "buying"

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Rocky's knees are failing again. Every good GM knew his knees were bad at the U but these rocket scientistics decided to 'trade up' to get him.

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is - or has been - a one trick pony. I.e., the west coast offense. But when that struggles, it's clear (so far) that he isn't capable of innovation, of making changes to get points. Although to be sure, this has been a problem for the past decade.

Sure, injuries have hurt. But even before the line was taken down a notch they were having trouble scoring points.

It's unfair to judge him at this point. But it's not unfair to see the limits that he has as a head coach.

The question is whether he can grow into the job. So far, I'd say he hasn't.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 15, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

SHOCKER
Vinny not doing his show now!

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Why couldn't Snyder lost all his money in the Madoff Ponzi scheme and now be forced to sell to recoup his losses????

Posted by: chrislarry | December 15, 2008 9:45 AM

Best post ever on RI blog...

It's too early to tell, maye he did and it just didn't get out yet.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

okay this is out of place compared to Doom & Gloom '08, but this is just too darn bizarre :

"San Diego Padres GM Kevin Towers To Orchestrate 30-Team Trade Involving Peavy, All-Stars

San Diego, CA — According to sources within the San Diego Padres’ front office, Kevin Towers has begun to draw up plans for a trade that would move star pitcher Jake Peavy. The proposed trade will include every team in baseball.

“It’s one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen in sports,” said a Padre official who spoke on condition of anonymity, “but it might just work. We’ll see — if he can just get [Astros’ GM] Ed Wade to go along with it, we might be onto something.”

Towers plans to have the proposal sent to all other 29 teams no later than December 20th so that GMs can consider it over the Christmas holiday. The work is still early in progress, but Towers is planning a coup-d’etat that would ship Peavy out of San Diego to…whomever.

“I really don’t give a damn who gets Peavy,” said Towers, “I just want this effin’ headache to end so that I can get to more important matters, like getting us a closer and shortstop.” Earlier this offseason, Towers informed former closer Trevor Hoffman that his tenure in San Diego is over and traded shortstop Khalil Greene to the St. Louis Cardinals.

After recent Jake Peavy-centered trade attempts with the Chicago Cubs and the Atlanta Braves failed, Towers is desperate to get anything to happen that he’ll try anything. His early ideas for the trade proposal include two hats — one which will have all MLB teams in it, and another which will have every single player in baseball in it. “Pull a team name out of one hat,” explained Towers, “then pull several names out of the other. If those players are on that team, they get moved to the next team; if they’re not on that team, that’s where they are now.”

According to Towers, he’d like to receive 12 players — one for each position as well as several pitchers, at least one of whom would have to be a closer — who have not only major-league experience but All-Star game appearances as well.

“If not every one of those players is a former All-Star, fine,” said Towers. “But at least half of ‘em. I don’t see why we can’t get 12 players — there was a 12-player trade last week, right?”

When asked if he thinks such a trade is realistic, Towers responded with a 13-minute rant which included complaining about other GMs and offering his opinions on what they should do. “I think [Mets’ GM Omar] Minaya is out of his mind — why wouldn’t you want to trade Carlos Beltran for [San Diego outfielder] Jody Gerut? He’s got such a high ceiling and hit .300 last year. Minaya shouldn’t be so stingy with his players. But I guess it’s back to the drawing board for that one…

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

continued :

“Some GMs might not go along with it, but I’ll just have to sweeten the deal by having all 30 teams share Brian Giles. Each team will get Giles for 5 games. Hell, I might just do the same with Adrian Gonzalez as well,” he added with a chuckle.

So who would get Peavy, and how would Towers get him to waive his no-trade clause to a mystery team?

“Easy,” Towers explained. “I’ll just bring him in, give him the contract, and cover up the team name with my thumb. Then, as he’s signing, if he asks what team he’s going to, I’ll say, ‘we’re gonna trade you to the…’ and then just say some nonsensical mumbo-jumbo. He’ll go for it — he is from Alabama, after all.”

ESPN’s Buster Olney says that if Towers can convince Peavy to go along with the absurd idea, the former Cy Young-winner will get his wish to play for a winning team — or at least more of one than the Padres. “Even the Mariners,” said Olney, “would be an improvement for Jake.” "

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

yall are all forgetting

THE BENGALS WERE THE BEST ONE WIN TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 9:43 AM

Sadly they were also the worst one-win team.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

redpit, you have something to back that up with, or just speculating....

Anyone know where the team drafts if the season ended today? They're about 11th right??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

beep beep...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

After being a fan since 1966 I gave up on the Redskins after last years post season debacle. I'll pull for the players, but never support this dysfunctional organization until Dan Snyder either sells the Redskins, or fires Vinny and gets completely out of football.

The hiring process that led to Jim Zorn, who I believe to a sincerely good guy, should have told everyone this organization is in a state of disarray. Does anyone really think Joe Gibbs left because of his Grandson? It was a convient excuse to get away from Dan and Vinny. Joe didn't have quality football people (i.e. a Bobby Beathard) next to or above him and he knew it.

The two good coaches they've had in the past 10 years (Marty and Joe) were either fired or driven out.

Look at what happened during the last draft. The Redskins needed offense and defensive lineman and Vinny drafted 2 receivers and a tight end? To make matters worse they spent millions signing Jason Taylor? Even I could see that if Bill Parcells didn't want him in Miami, he wasn't worth it.

The first eight weeks of this season was an anomaly, everything else is the norm. It isn't odd that nobody qualified wants to coach for the Redskins. they are the Raiders of the NFC. The only difference is Al Davis will be gone some and Dan will be around another 40 years.

Posted by: chargersix | December 15, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

After being a fan since 1966 I gave up on the Redskins after last years post season debacle. I'll pull for the players, but never support this dysfunctional organization until Dan Snyder either sells the Redskins, or fires Vinny and gets completely out of football.

The hiring process that led to Jim Zorn, who I believe to a sincerely good guy, should have told everyone this organization is in a state of disarray. Does anyone really think Joe Gibbs left because of his Grandson? It was a convient excuse to get away from Dan and Vinny. Joe didn't have quality football people (i.e. a Bobby Beathard) next to or above him and he knew it.

The two good coaches they've had in the past 10 years (Marty and Joe) were either fired or driven out.

Look at what happened during the last draft. The Redskins needed offense and defensive lineman and Vinny drafted 2 receivers and a tight end? To make matters worse they spent millions signing Jason Taylor? Even I could see that if Bill Parcells didn't want him in Miami, he wasn't worth it.

The first eight weeks of this season was an anomaly, everything else is the norm. It isn't odd that nobody qualified wants to coach for the Redskins. they are the Raiders of the NFC. The only difference is Al Davis will be gone some and Dan will be around another 40 years.

Posted by: chargersix | December 15, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

It is mind-numbing that the Atlanta Falcons have passed the Redskins in terms of the power ranking in the league these are same Mike Vick,Bobby Petrino,dog fighting,scandal ridden franchise that was left for the scrap heap not even a year ago.A team that everyone said might not win four games let alone challenge for the division lead this late in the season and with a rookie head coach and quaterback no less, they hired the assistant Gm of the NE Patriots and he has turned that team into a winner and guess how he did it? THE DRAFT and they went out and hired Mike Smith a career Coordinator who is not full of himself(Zorn) who has galvanized the team, rookies and veterans alike.They have rookies who contribute and young wide receivers who get open and know the playbook how do I know all this because I am a Redskin fan who lives here in Atlanta!!!. `

Posted by: dargregmag | December 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Beantown, read it in the Post this morning

Posted by: redpitbull98 | December 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

TWISI

You're speaking about Okoye who is the starting DT for the Texans. The Texans are 7-7 and not going to the playoffs. That D is ranked 23rd in pts/game, 21st in yards, 18th is passing yards/games and 24th in rushing yards/game. Okoye has 17 total tackles this year.

Okoye plays for the Falcons, I believe, who are on their way to the playoffs.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | December 15, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

You can say all you want about this and that but when a team like the Skins loses to a team as bad as the Bengals there is something seriously wrong with the coaching. The Zorn/Campbell/WC offense/playcalling dynamic is in a serious nose dive. The point the article makes is valid. If you decide you are going to be a WC team and then can't back it up with the necessary coaching and personnel then you have a big mess, which is where we ae right now.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | December 15, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Oh no! Did they really already trade some of next years draft picks?? AARRRRGGGHH!!

I had hope they may grab some picks for next April and draft around the line of scrimmage.

Hell, at this point, I'd say trade some of our established players (maybe Portis and/or Moss as their durability won't get any better and you can't get anything for Randal El)for some draft picks and draft some physical linemen on both sides of the ball.

I'm tired of watching them get pushed around on the line. It's pretty dishaertening when they get pushed around physically every week.

DRAFT SOME PHYSICAL LINEMEN AND LINBACKERS!!

Posted by: heyjoe728 | December 15, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

With all the problems with the Skins in that game, Portis is the first person you single out as a problem? Thinly veiled attempt to move the blame away from Zorn.

Posted by: gclyde | December 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

how do we move forward? how do we evoke change?
What "change" needs to be done? Personally, I think we need to limit the owner's influence on the team (to the extent possible) this includes getting him out of the draft room, and removing his pal Vinny Cerrato. We also need a GM. We also need better scouting (or to listen to the ones we have).

We as fans need to take a stand. We cannot tolerate more of the same...
we've seen this show before, the ending is decidedly disappointing.

We've got one more home game- how will we voice our disapproval? I'm not suggesting booing, but there should certainly be a COORDINATED EFFORT to voice our displeasure.
Ideas?

Posted by: HonestSkinsFan | December 15, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

HonestSkinsFan,

That's a nice idea, but unfortunately, fans will show up, pay their $30 for the priviledge to park a half mile away, $80 plus to sit several stories up in the air and a small fortune for a beer and hot dog like a bunch of lemmings. This is why the Redskins are the most profitable franchise in pro sports

That said, why would Snyder change a thing?

A boycott is a nice fantasy though

Posted by: heyjoe728 | December 15, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"We've got one more home game- how will we voice our disapproval? I'm not suggesting booing, but there should certainly be a COORDINATED EFFORT to voice our displeasure.
Ideas?"
----------------------

Yes. Very simple. DON'T GO TO THE GAME ON SUNDAY. Don't buy Skins gear, don't put any f'ing money in Danny's pocket to support this BS.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Skins are a very medicore team! Cerrato and Synder are to blame for this mess! Coaching is not very good! Team is fractured and not playing up to expectations!

Fire Cerrato and hire a real GM.

Have the boy wonder sell the team and get a real owner!

Fire Zorn and hire Bill Cowher!

release Jason Taylor and get a dominant pass rusher (or maybe two?).....

Get more depth on the Oline....

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

What I don't understand is why everyone wants to "change" again. Does it occur to anybody that this is indeed step ONE in what we all recognize is MULTI-STEP PROCESS? Let's see what Zorn can do with Cerrato and this new scouting staff, and see if they can't get it together.

It's not time to hit the panic button and change once again. Be angry, sure, it sucks to be a fan of a sucky team, but it can't get better if every time change comes we all freak out when it gets tough. Isn't that what we people keep saying has been wrong with Snyder before? Panic when it gets tough and start all over AGAIN.

I don't want Cower, give this TIME to prove whether or not can get it done, and then act appropriately.

As far as the game goes, yeah Zorn made a couple bonehead decisions for sure. Two in a row to Sellers with a "healthy" Portis? The second quarter was very good, JC got into a nice rhythm and all was well. Come back from the break and Zorn is back to Portis, Portis, Portis over and over again. I know all the talk that teams have to "ride the horse" and all, but the Bengals were as focused on stopping Portis as they could get. Got to take advantage of that like the did in the second quarter, and when Zorn didn't do it right away, I knew it was over.

Posted by: craig2 | December 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Okoye plays for the Falcons, I believe, who are on their way to the playoffs.
===
No, he's a Houston Texan. Here's their roster:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=hou

At any rate the point with O- and D-lineman is that you take one or two each year in the first day of the draft, because you are never sure which ones will develop. And when you get a decent one you hold on to him like grim death.

Posted by: hubcap | December 15, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I just hope S Moss feels just a tad dumber today after "cleaning his shoes" while losing to a 1-11-1 team.

Worse thing is....if Zorn calls him out on it, half of you guys will be calling for his job because he embarrassed our "only deep threat".

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

It's the awffense stupid!

Posted by: tony11 | December 15, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

the Redskins players lack pride. They should all be embarrassed. Coaches coach and players play, no matter what head coach we have the team just got their butts whipped by one of the worst teams in football. The players show now emotion, no leadership and quite frankly I dont think they give a damn

Posted by: pquick6165 | December 15, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

At the entrance to the locker room after the last game Z-man should have his list in hand and cut the following before he gives his press talk. No hard feelings, but pro ball is about production for pay, pro bal is not a tenured social club. From what I can see, almost every player over 30 should be let go.Here is the list:
Carter-done;Jensen-done;Griffin-done;J.Taylor-done:Thrash-front office
M. Washington let him start celebrating somewhere else; Yoder, let the rookie do it; Samuels-done; Springs, 3 games a year not good enough; Betts or Portis take you pick; Kendell-done.
Productivity-Age-Health to hell with the salary cap!!
If I am the Z man I thank them all but I let the world know that I let them go before Snyder let me go!
Z-Man save yourself let the unproductive go!!

Posted by: carl13 | December 15, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I think we need to blow this team up at the end of the season. Its gonna take years of good drafting, and not just in the first round to just rebuild the ENTIRE offensive line. The Redskins should have been adding a young player or two to this line as it has aged so we wouldnt be in a situation where everyone on this o-line is on their last leg. Stud tackles are 1st round picks and you only get 1 of those a year.Since Portis and Moss arent spring chickens anymore, I doubt they will want to stick around for rebuilding, so we will need to replace them as well. Oh yeah, we have to rebuild the ENTIRE defensive line as well!! I think it safe to say its also time to replace M.Washington. If we can get Fletcher to stick around to lead and be a mentor while we rebuild the defense, that would be great. Cut the kicker, and the punter, they both need to be replaced. We are starting to see the effects of throwing away all of our 3rd-7th round draft picks. Thats where you add young depth that you groom to step in when guys get older. That way you dont have to blow up an entire team at once and start from scratch, and I tell you one thing, Vinnie is not the one I trust to rebuild this team

Posted by: hank7216 | December 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Why does Danny Smith keep escaping blame with the special teams. He has done nothing since he has been here!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Okoye doesn't play for the Falcons - he was drafted (10th pick in 1st round, I believe) by the Texans and plays for them, as the original poster giving his stats stated.

Posted by: sysadb420 | December 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

The defense isn't bad , but its a mostly veteran crew that is on the field way too long due to the muddled Midwest Coast schizo-attack. McNabb is the best West Coast QB, consistently making big plays with mid-level players (the ownership is stingey, and Eagles are always well under the salary cap)..Give him a T.O. or Randy Moss, and he becomes Der Uber-QB..Anyway, the point is , the big play is VITAL to the WC, and this was probably Vinnie's thinking drafting receivers..Unfortunately, he forgot to note, without a solid, healthy O-line, all defenses look like Gort the Destroyer , and the endzone goes farther and farther into space..This is not Johnny Rocket science, this is Football 101, and Redskins-2008 has exploded on the launching pad...Hopefully Vinny will be next..

Posted by: frak | December 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully they can hire a 6'6" GM with good hands.

Posted by: drew77 | December 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Raiders East.

Posted by: richie_sheppard | December 15, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

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