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Monday Morning H-Back

I'm going to keep this short and sweet 'cuz it's almost 3 a.m. as I write this and Monday will be a busy day. We'll pick this loss apart in more detail a little later, but here are some general thoughts.

The division race is over. The Giants aren't going to blow a three-game lead with six to play. Let's give Carolina and Arizona those divisions and say the Skins are now in the hunt with Dallas, Philly, Atlanta, Tampa, Chicago, Green Bay, and Minnesota for two wild-card spots. It's not going to be easy, but it's not impossible. A loss to Seattle would be crushing, and to me this is the first must-win game of the year.

I'm not going to say much about the defense. You give up 14 points, you should win. Sure, they still don't have a pass rush, but they haven't for years and I don't see it changing any time soon. They kept a team with a lot of weapons totally in check. Marion Barber got a bunch of yards late, and that happens when your offense can't score. It's not like he went for 150 on them. They're not the cause for concern overall.

The offense is the problem. Teams play the run, double-team Santana Moss, and on third down, double either Chris Cooley or Antwaan Randle El. They don't have a No. 2 WR, and haven't since, gulp, Gardner, Rod departed. They have only one deep threat. They get less out of the No. 2-5 WRs than pretty much any team in the league. It's been a failure of the front office for the better part of this decade (along with the lack of any young, impact defensive linemen) and this goes beyond coaching. It's personnel.

The offensive line is older and beat up and the pass protection is really sagging, which makes it difficult for Jason Campbell to even take a real deep shot. I guess they need to roll him out on every play. Cooley spent most of the game right next to Jon Jansen, but Chris Samuels is gonna have problems sometimes playing on one leg, especially against the likes of DeMarcus Ware. Watching the nose guard line up over both guards at different times and run right over them isn't a good sign, either.

I don't see this one changing much. Philly the Giants and the Ravens are going to usel this template, and Seattle, though now banged up and with nothing to play for, gave the Skins fits in the playoffs with its pass rush last season.

The offense doesn't finish drives, and as the field gets smaller the lack of playmakers becomes more pointed. Jim Zorn needs to get more creative or less predictable or something, as well. I've been calling for the Wildcat formation, at least as a red-zone gadget, and maybe they can find a way to get the ball into Randle El's hands more in open space (although he's ailing now, too).

Fred Davis can't get on the field, but we all know they need another target guy with some size in the red zone. I think Mike Sellers could be more involved, too. He got a few shots and scored a TD early, and then faded.

Considering that was the first game coming out of the bye - and a huge game against a division rival - it wasn't exactly a masterpiece of scheme or execution. It was more of the same - connect on some third-and-longs, move the ball between the 20s, then bog down. You look at the numbers on offense now, and it's looking a whole lot like the limp production of the Gibbs/Saunders years, with only Clinton Portis and Moss getting into the end zone with any sort of regularity.

Finally, you've got to praise how hard Portis played given his injury. Not sure how the knee will hold up, but he's always been nothing but gutsy on game day. He ran five times for 29 yards on the opening drive, then seemed to slow some, which is only natural, given the injury, once the adrenaline wore off a bit. He was a gamer until the end.

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 17, 2008; 7:14 AM ET
 
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Next: What's on Tap Today

Comments

Poor Deadskin fans got their hopes up and now they probably wont make the playoffs or win another game.

You have to play the whole season girls.

But 6-10 is respectable for a bunch of fans who sell their tickets to the opposing fans and have no real loyalty to their team.

Take those towels tie knot in them, insert, and pull and have fun ladies.

And dont forget to give Danny Boy a sniff!

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | November 17, 2008 7:39 AM | Report abuse

So the consensus is to fire everyone, replace the GM and owner, and move back to RFK.
Looks like we're in for a busy week.

Posted by: daggar | November 17, 2008 7:51 AM | Report abuse

Very disappointed with what seems to be a lack of adjustment on the offense side of the ball. Offensive gurus adjust.

Posted by: bmo63 | November 17, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Just as gravity rules all laws of motion on this planet so does the concept that to win football games you need the better offensive and defensive lines. For some reason our front office has been in denial about what really works in this league and thus you create a team that has to scramble to even eek out a win against teams that have one or no wins. Cerrato once again rolled the dice last draft day and has a one for ten winning percentage of picks. Drafting a tight end for a position that already has a young star, drafting a wide receiver that already had a history of knee problems, drafting an idiot wide receiver, these are not the ways you build a good team. Of course Cerrato and his defenders will go down defending their draft day debacle, but the true court that decides the issue is on the field and that verdict is being rendered before our eyes.

Posted by: driley | November 17, 2008 8:00 AM | Report abuse

We'll go 8-8, miss the playoffs, and Seattle will wax us, I think (they're not that bad and we're not that good).

As for the offense, it's like watching the specter of Gibbs appear and call the plays. Run-run-pass. I thought Zorn was hired to get rid of such retro folly.

Jake

Posted by: jakfish | November 17, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Is someone on the offensive line going to man up? Soup won't last the season if he keeps taking hits like last night and against pitt.

Posted by: NFeKPo | November 17, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Insightful analysis as always, but this game can be summed up more simply. Cowboys got to Campbell consistently, we never touched Romo. Tale of the tape right there. Receivers or no receivers, this game is won in the trenches, and Jerry Jones has prioritized the trenches more than Snyder. Invert that, and Skins win.

Posted by: DironTalbert | November 17, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Positives:
1. De Angelo Hall made an immediate impact with the INT.

2. The Redskins know that their defense can get along just fine without Shawn Springs. Holding Dallas to 14 points, esp. when the offense is doing alot of 3 and outs, is getting the job done. Springs is a good player, but for the last how many seasons has he spent significant parts of it on the injury list? Time to save some cap space by letting him go (since he refuses to re-negotiate) and find some O linemen.

Negatives:
1. What is up with Campbell? There's 2 ways to look at it. ONE: it could be that Campbell is fine but he is being dragged down by lousy pass protection, lack of capable receivers (beyond Moss) and predictable play calling. TWO: Campbell is regressing which prevents Zorn from calling more challenging plays which in turn allows defenses to zero in. It's up to the full-time reporters to figure out the truth here.
2. An offense that can't score more than 10 points after getting two turnovers is not going to win in the NFL.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | November 17, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

And if there was a play that haunted us, it was Rock's knocking a stopped ball into the end zone! Sure he was hustling but that ball wasnt going anywhere. Cowboys got all their momentum off the touchdown from that drive. I dont see them driving 99 1/2 yards for a TD. Huge game swing.

Posted by: DironTalbert | November 17, 2008 8:10 AM | Report abuse

As for the offense, it's like watching the specter of Gibbs appear and call the plays. Run-run-pass. I thought Zorn was hired to get rid of such retro folly.

Jake

Posted by: jakfish | November 17, 2008 8:03 AM

jak,

You have every reason to be upset but at least know what you upset about. There was never one time in that game that we ran on 1st and 2nd down and then passed on third and punted.

The offense was atrocious I do not think we ran enough Portis was getting big gains, I know he was injured but you can't abandon the run if it's working, the Skins had the lead most of the game but they were playing like they were behind.

I have no problems with the defense they played a great game no pass rush but they only gave up 14 points, even if they got the ball back for the offense at the end of the game, the offense was'nt going to do anything with it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse

I told someone on here to come see me when we were 6-6. Good chance we lose to Seattle, and we have no chance against the Giants.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 17, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Look at the numbers, everyone. the Redskins have been outscored by every team in the league, except for KC, Det, Oak, Rams, and Cinnci!!!! and they've barely scored more than KC and Det! Rookie QB's Ryan and Flacco have done more! This offense is worse than the Gibbs offense, and it's not even close. Even Gibbs didn't play Thrash 80% of the time!

Posted by: tbarz1 | November 17, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

No pressure. No offense. Game.

Posted by: cosomfla | November 17, 2008 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Totally agree last night looked like Gibbs 2.0. That the article on the Rogers was not good at all. Notice you brought up Torrence but failed to say anything about Hall int. But I knew you wouldn't. The O line needs to give JC time.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 17, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Morning Redskins fans. I'm new on the posting but I have been reading the postings for awhile now. User ID UHATEME? Well, that's anyone that hates the Skins. Now, back to my regularly scheduled posting :-)

Yes, we lost and yes we lost within the division. It could be worse though. We still have six games to right the wrongs that's going on with our offense. As much as I hate to say this but we now have to let someone else (Giants) do what we should have done and knock them out of the race. I hate depending on others to do our work for us but that is what we are relegated to right now. We need them to sweep. We have to stop making penalties ala D. Thomas negating a long gain by Portis. I can agree with JLC with some things he said. The last thing we need to hear right now is this "They don't have a No. 2 WR, and haven't since, gulp, Gardner, Rod departed. They have only one deep threat. They get less out of the No. 2-5 WRs than pretty much any team in the league. It's been a failure of the front office for the better part of this decade (along with the lack of any young, impact defensive linemen) and this goes beyond coaching. It's personnel." JLC - I think there is a team up North called the Beagles that has gotten less from THEIR #2 - #5 receivers than us (see Stinkston, Mitchell or insert anyone that has played WR there in the last ten years. Quick, name 3 receivers other than TO that year?) Gardner was a joke and he was drafted in the first round and got the name 50-50 for a reason. You can assess personnel later. We win with who we have and we lose with who we have. I didn't see you giving must praise about "personnel" after each win. How about we assess personnel in the "off-season" when we can tolerate it then. Obviously, as you like to point out, there are needs that should be addressed but didn't and won't be until the season is over. We are 6-4 and in the conversation of a playoff race. "Monday Morning H-Back" should be labeled "The Rip-Apart Redskins Report" or simply JLC (Just Love Criticizing)....

The Monday after a loss always hurts. No time to dwell on it now. We have Seattle coming up and we all know what happend the last two times we were there (loses). Emotional game for "The Zorn Identity" lol

Let's go Skins!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: UHATEME | November 17, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Is it pass protection for Campbell, or is Campbell simply not seeing the receivers downfield--doesn't fully understand the playbook, OR is Jim Zorn not the playcaller we thought he was?

Is it that we're not getting to the QB, or has the defense been underachieving all season anyway?

What's going on with LaRon Landry?

Why in the hell is Jon Jansen still starting?

Anyone want to argue the fact that we need to get YOUNG TALENT at LB, and the offensive and defensive lines?

Devin Thomas has been active most of the season and has not produced anything yet. Malcolm Kelly has been injured, and Fred Davis has no excuse to get on the field--what happend to him being the best TE in the draft? As noted THE other ROOKIE TE made a TD catch. Chris Horton has played well but looked awful on coverage that play.

This team has a good shot at making the playoffs, but injuries are starting to build, and some of the play on-field is starting to look suspect.

May be they peaked at the wrong time.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 17, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

No time to dwell on it now.

Au contraire, mon ami. We've got at least six days to dwell on it.

And dwell we will.

Posted by: daggar | November 17, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

pretty good summary red.....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 17, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

How bad does that St. Louis loss look now?

I'm curious to see how the Eagles tying--LOL--factors in the NFC the rest of the way.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I'm not getting into the game because I'm still pissed about it. If you hold ANYONE to 14 points you should win. Period. This game highlights the need to pull a trade for Anquan Boldin. I don't care what it costs, just get him in burgundy and gold. He's the "big" receiver this team lusts for, he's an all-around WR who blocks well and is elite in the passing game and a great locker room guy. I guarantee he makes Devin Thomas better by influence alone and will make a nice combo with Campbell. That also opens things up for Moss and Cooley AND gives the team a red zone target. This needs to be the first order of business in March.

That said, THE SKY IS NOT FALLING. This loss sucks because it was against Satan's Team but we're 6-4 with a favorable remaining schedule. Dallas meanwhile, is still looking at 8-8 even with this win.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Red I think a lot has to do with JC not having time. Jasen needs to put back on the bench. My belief is Sleep can't get in because Yoder is a better blocker and we need to keep a extra person in to block. Horton over al has played great. I think the other guy just made a good play. No one is going to make every play.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 17, 2008 8:46 AM | Report abuse

The offense is the problem and you can't truly blame the front office because all they did was use the teams first FOUR picks on offense (2 WR, TE and O line). If we were getting any big plays out of our 2 rounders things would be better. This week we have to get Fred Davis and Cooley on the field together. With our WR depth why you don't see Davis, Cooley, Moss and ARE on 3rd and less 5 blows my mind! Also, at some point you have to take some shots deep with Devin Thomas (the man is huge!) and let him win some jump balls. This is truly at WTF game and Zorn needs to let it rip. Its one thing when players can't get it done but when your offense does nothing and you don't use weapons at your disposal I question the coaching...also NEVER let Shaun Alexander back on the field...and where are the formations with Betts and Portis on the field at the same time.....we need to BLOWOUT Seattle for our confidence or this season is over.

Posted by: BC1963 | November 17, 2008 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Have any one noticed that three of of the five o-line men are white who can't block ?
This team is falling apart,at its core. Its a shame that 80% of the o-line is white. Based on the numbers 65% of the players in the NFL sre black. Vinny draft more black players. Time for change,ask the new black PREZZ

Posted by: poolman1200000 | November 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Offense looked good until we tried the Randle El reverse. For some reason that play sticks out in my head as the turning point in offense: before then we were driving well, afterward we couldn't get anything done. Another big play was the drop by Devin Thomas, negating a first down.

Defensively, I don't think they deserve a pass. Dallas drove with ease almost every time they had the ball, and if they hadn't failed to execute in the red zone (the Hall pick was an unforced turnover, though Rogers did put a wallop on TO to force the McIntosh interception), they would have been up at the half, and it would have gotten out of hand fast.

For that reason, I think the guilt for this loss (despite the low score) lies most heavily with the defensive line. If we can't pressure the passer or stop the run, we don't deserve to be in the playoffs. The way we were getting manhandled in the trenches, I'm not sure why we even played a defensive line - just throw 6 linebackers and 5 defensive backs out there. It's not like we're ever getting to the qb, and it's not like the runner isn't going to get to the second level anyway.

The offense still has some kinks to work out to be sure. To not score any points off turnovers was easily the difference in the game. But, looking forward (for the rest of the year and beyond), our pitiful defensive line is the achilles heel of this franchise. Just because the Cowboys only put up 14 on us doesn't mean our defense played well, and it absolutely doesn't mean our d-linemen were playing like they belonged in a professional league.

Posted by: crashinghero | November 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Dear I say I agree with much of Jason's analysis. Tine to get Fred Davis or Malcolm Kelly more involved in the red zone. It why they were drafted. The defense was good and when Springs getting back on the field, it'll be really hard to throw against them. The I think the skins have three more wins in them against the dregs on their schedule. They'll need to beat the Ravens and/or Iggles to get to ten wins (I don't see them beating the Gints). Let's hope the pass protection improves significantly over hte next few weeks.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Also, at some point you have to take some shots deep with Devin Thomas (the man is huge!) and let him win some jump balls

You need time to do that BC. I had a Cowboy fan ask me this morning why we stop going to Cooley. He even notice that every time we did he was open. Totally agree that "tip toe paper tissue" doesn't need to see the field ever again.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

" I guarantee he makes Devin Thomas better by influence alone and will make a nice combo with Campbell."

And Santana Moss does not make Thomas better?
The problem IS Devin Thomas, stop making excuses for him. We have a big gaping hole at #2 receiver and Thomas has had every opportunity to step up. I am pretty sure that it is Moss and Cooley that are drawing the double coverage, not Thomas. Boldin instead of Thomas would be the better scenario.

Posted by: driley | November 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

F Shaun Alexander.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Offense looked good until we tried the Randle El reverse.

Posted by: crashinghero | November 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Not sure what drive this play occured, however after the first skins posession, the skins had at leat two three and out. That's just not going to get it done. The skins need to sustin drives because they don't have the ability to socre a lot of points at this time.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Poolman...c'mon now. Color has nothing to do with why we are getting beat. There is nothing racial as to why we lost yesterday. We lost as a team. So I guess we should not pass to Cooley because he may drop a ball. Horton is black and got beat on the game-winning touchdown. By the way, I'm black and I'm offended. There is no white or black. It's only burgundy and gold baby!!!!!!!!

Posted by: UHATEME | November 17, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

And Santana Moss does not make Thomas better?
The problem IS Devin Thomas, stop making excuses for him. We have a big gaping hole at #2 receiver and Thomas has had every opportunity to step up. I am pretty sure that it is Moss and Cooley that are drawing the double coverage, not Thomas. Boldin instead of Thomas would be the better scenario.

Posted by: driley | November 17, 2008 8:58 AM

Apparently Moss ISN'T making Thomas better. But I'm not making any excuses for Thomas, I'm saying that Boldin helps in EVERY way. Unless he gets hurt, I see no downside. And for those of you expecting big things from rookies: you were setting yourself up for disappointment anyway. They should be contributing more, but to assume they'd start is a little wrong.

By the way, ESPN is going to be completely unwatchable for the next couple days as they'll be sucking Cowboy d*ck to completion...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Anyone ever notice that JLC's football knowledge is about nil? You never hear anyone, ANYONE agree with these statements.

You hate Vinny and Dan. We get it.

But, we have a better record and offense and we need to copy Miami's Wildcat? Are you kidding??? Mongtomery and Golston werent young draftees? Let's be honest, whoever the Skins didnt draft is playing for another team...Exactly who is tearing up the league that we should have drafted? Who?

Also, I best player was murdered. Gone. Not replaced, can never be replaced. Not traded for someone else. Gone.
No way TO goes across the field on that long pass play with Sean Taylor back there.

Posted by: kreator6996 | November 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

How can someone really think this is on Soup not seeing the field? The sack that put us out of field goal range is a perfect example of how he doesn't have time. There was a play action fake and when he turned to face the field he was SMACKED.

Posted by: NFeKPo | November 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I look at the situation and am wondering, does anyone else feel that in the first game, Zorn tried to go full on WC, and it failed. In game 2-5 he accepted that to win the team needed to run and bomb and play from shotgun, and it worked fine. the last few games though we are back to running a WC system and the offense is junk again, it worked against 2 bad teams but that's it. How many plays did you see JC back in Shotgun? How much play action? If he needs time to throw the ball, put him a few feet behind center again.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I just same the same thing to a co worker Alex. It does seem the last couple of games Zorn is trying to prove his WC offense can work.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 17, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else think mixing in some NO HUDDLE would keep the opposing D off balance and give JC some time?

We were pretty successful in it last year.

Posted by: PrisonMike | November 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

ok we lost. The defense held as well as they could all night. I agree the problem is with the offense. However I think it is still a bit early to be this negative. I don't believe Dallas was the better team last night. We just let them hang in there because our Offense forgot how to play football. We need a #2 reciever and we need a line that can protect the QB long enough for him to get a pass off. Campbell was hit 10 times last night.

We have a lot to improve on but I don't think all is lost yet. atleast until Sunday.

Posted by: Buckleycj | November 17, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Vinny needs to take note of these little facts about last nights game.

Devin Thomas: Two VERY costly penalties. Illegal formation and 12 men on the field. Both times you can see people on the side line yelling at.

Lets not forget the dropped pass for a 1st down.

I know not one person ever losses a game. But Vinny drafted 3 receiver types to fill in at key moments and make plays. Instead we get costly errors that kill critical drives.

Lets not forget that Taylor has still given us nothing and those draft picks will be crucial this off-season.

Another final note. Wasn't Chris Jenkins ignored this off-season by our FO? He's killing folks over in NY now.

Posted by: Devo2 | November 17, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

the last few games though we are back to running a WC system and the offense is junk again, it worked against 2 bad teams but that's it. How many plays did you see JC back in Shotgun? How much play action? If he needs time to throw the ball, put him a few feet behind center again.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more. However, I think he's going in that direction because CP has been banged up and Betts has been hurt.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I have a question for everyone. How many of us thought this team would be 6-4 at this point before the season started? I know I didn't think they would be. So I have mix feelings this morning. I am happy we are 6-4 but very upset with the way the O continues to play.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 17, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

THE LOSS IS ON ZORN.

Skins threw it 35 times for 136 yards, 3.9 yds/pass.

Ran it 18 times for 92 yards, 5.1 yds/rush.

Not rocket science.

Why throw the ball twice as much in a game you led for most of it??? All during our winning streak we were 50/50 pass to rush.

Posted by: kdog11 | November 17, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

At this point the lack of a pass rush and the inability of our O line to stop the opponents pass is really disconcerting.

This O seems to have been figured out about 5 weeks ago. The self scouting doesn't appear to have worked.

At this point only one facet of the Offense works and that is the one (running) that is a left over product of Gibbs.

Posted by: Gweez | November 17, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more. However, I think he's going in that direction because CP has been banged up and Betts has been hurt.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Maybe, but if it does not work in the first half what made them think that it would work in the 2nd half? He made 0 half-time adjustments, it seemed his plan at the half was to give up on the run and try a dink and dunk.

I think if you want to do that you need to put Heyer in for Jansen, because Heyer can block the pass rush better. My gut tells me JC's numbers w/Jansen v w/Heyer are night and day, and when I have free time I will try and do some math on it. Though if someone can help me out with figuring out what games where who starting at RT?

I think its JJ
@ NYG
@ CLE (is this when Heyer was LT,& JJ at RT or was that detroit)
@ DET
PIT
DAL

Heyer
NO
AZ
@ DAL
@ PHI
STL

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I respectfully have to disagree, Flounder21.

I didn't say we run-run-pass-punt, I said we run-run-pass-not score. Now that opposing defenses are customizing for the 'skins rather than playing a generic set back when Zorn was the unknown, we are no position to grind it out, regardless of Portis's condition.

I haven't seen the final stats yet, so it's anecdotal at this point, but it appeared that every "drive" had numerous third-and-very-longs, generated by a stifled running game. You can do third-and-eight a couple of times, not several times within every drive.

You have much more faith in a run-first offense than I do. With the parity in the league coupled with our aging o-line, good teams will beat a run-first Redskin team given our current stock of talent, and I don't even think Dallas is a particuarly good team.

Jake

>> As for the offense, it's like watching the specter of Gibbs appear and call the plays. Run-run-pass. I thought Zorn was hired to get rid of such retro folly.

Jake

Posted by: jakfish | November 17, 2008 8:03 AM

jak,

You have every reason to be upset but at least know what you upset about. There was never one time in that game that we ran on 1st and 2nd down and then passed on third and punted.

The offense was atrocious I do not think we ran enough Portis was getting big gains, I know he was injured but you can't abandon the run if it's working, the Skins had the lead most of the game but they were playing like they were behind.

Posted by: jakfish | November 17, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I wasn't able to see the 2nd half of the game, but this is what I was able to take away from the game, and this season in general.

Campbell - not terrible. I wish I could say more, but I can't. If we're looking for improvment over last year it's there. His completion percentage is up and his turnovers are down - Both good things. However, he's thrown the same amount of touchdowns as he did through week 12 last year. I'm not sure what the reason for this is. It could be play calling, it could be lack of receivers, or it could be Jason time will tell. I do have to say it's hard to throw TDs when you're on your back.

Portis - This man is a beast. To go out there and run with violence as he did is something only CP can do. Tip your hat, and be glad he plays for we each week.

MOss - I think we all know now that Moss can't do it on his own. Santana is a good receiver, but on a great team he is only a No. 2. With nagging injuries, he can't be the downfield threat and be our go to guy like he has in the past.

Randle El - Truely a No.3 receiver. Plays with heart but doesn't have the ablity to strech the field.

Cooley - Put in Heyer, get Chris off blocking duty, and give him the ball. With Moss and Portis being our only true weapons, we can't afford to have Cooley help Jansen. This man is a ProBowler and need to be treated as such. Run two TE sets and have Yoder block if you need to. There is no excuse for Cooley not having the ball in his hands more.

Rookie Receivers - SH!TTY. Devin Thomas must be damn near retarded. I don't understand why he can't just run a fly every time he is on the field. Make somebody cover him. Send him long, if the saftey picks him up you have Santana(or anybody) open underneath. If the safety doesn't pick him up throw it up there, maybe he'll catch it. Kelly needs to be on IR, anybody who can stand would be better than him right now. Fred Davis, never should have drafted him, he can't block, and I guess he can't run routes or catch passes either. Maybe he can rush the passer?

Defense - Although we have absolutely no pass rush, we haven't for years, and it doesn't seem to affect us. Yes, I'd like to put more QBs on their @ss, but pressure can be just as affective. Pressure makes the QB get rid of the ball quicker than he would like and often leads to bad decisions and turn overs. Anytime you hold an offense to under 21, your D did their job.

Posted by: bg21 | November 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

I think we will make the playoffs...first and foremost.

Now to the rest: our O-line is playing awful, they are obviously all injured or playing like it. What ever happened to Heyer, b/c Jansen is plan awful. We are running a predictable offensive game plan, more importantly we cant even protect Campbell to get the ball downfield, but in the defense that the Cowgirls played, we still should have been able to throw down the middle of the field or to Cooley in the middle. Everyone else runs the wheel play on us with ease, why do we not use the wheel play and bring WR all the way across the field. It seems like the routes we run are to easy to cover. WE HAVE TO STOP ABANDONING THE RUN, PORTIS IS A STUD, LOOKED LIKE IT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME AND FURTHER ON - STAY WITH HIM. I hope that Betts is ok, b/c I would really like to dump Alexander and get a LB that may be out there, M. Washington is done as is Jansen and possibly Samuels. LET KELLY PLAY FOR CHRIST SAKES, he is huge and seems to be healthy, throw the ball up and let him get it. D. Hall made an immediate impact last night, good to see. Could we please let someone else return punts, ARE sucks as a returner and WR, he is not a #2 or 3 or 4, he short arms balls and does not like to get hit, what the hell is up with his burrowing into the ground on punts after one stupid dance move.
Zorn seems all to interested in abandoning the run to soon and getting the passing game going, important, but our running still works and will eventually open the pass, look at all of our wins RUN FIRST, PASS later.

Zorn still is better than I ever thought he would be, but clock management still sucks. Campbell needs to get rid of the ball faster or throw it away, taking long sacks kills us.

Hail Skins and we should have taken a penalty to kill Romo's hand that he broke f banging j. Simpson.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

JC was in Shotgun on almost every 3rd and long and play action was used on the first down bomb that Moss dropped. Devin Thomas had a big drop,too.

Posted by: kreator6996 | November 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood, I agree with you about Boldin. He will not be with AZ next season and some lucky team will get him (probably a team in our division). Would totally change our offense....and change is desperately needed.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

ugh

that sucked


that REALLY sucked


eff dallas


I literally went blind watching the game last night and haven't recovered my eyesight. Doctor says it should take until Wednesday at least. 100% serious.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

bg21, Shawn Springs has praised Fred Davis in practice (although when was the last time Shawn practiced?) - said the only time they have been able to cover him was the day he overslept.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I guess you could call me The Blind Truth

ZINGER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

This just underscores the adage that championship teams are built on the lines. You can work around deficiencies in the short-term and have spurts of success, but in the long run, you're not going to win with average-to-below-average line play. And that is exactly what we have on both sides right now.

No pass block. No pass rush. Game over.

Posted by: Zornado | November 17, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse


Here are the moves that I hope to see by the coaches/FO this week to show me that they "get-it":

1) Devin "The Flag Magnet" Thomas gets put on the bench, Kelly gets IRed, and they sign a veteran WR (McMullen). This unit is hurting soooo bad - definitely the worst unit on the team. Devin Thomas needs summer-school to learn the playbook and Kelly needs to get his pretzel butt on the field and catch balls or he needs to make room on the roster for someone who can. At this stage of the season I opt for the latter, and hopefully next year we will see them contribute.

2) Stephon Heyer starts getting more first team snaps. We need to tune up the passing game and that means we cannot afford for Jansen to let JC get mauled anymore.

3)Shaun Alexander gets cut immediately. With 2 injured RBs coming into this game, SA got 1 carry for 0 yards. If they do not think he can contribute under these circumstances, why is he on the roster? Cut him and start giving Rock/Sellers those carries.

4) We start seeing some "Wildcat" or some other new wrinkles. Zorn has been found out. The template is there to stop this offense. It's time for Zorn to start flexing his "coaching" muscles and do a little bit more than just call old Gibbs plays.

Posted by: p1funk | November 17, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Teams have been scoring TD's in this league for 80 years before the Wildcat formation came out. It's a gimmick. Line up and hit someone in the mouth.

Get Jansen out of there. If he's not flat out getting beat he's getting pushed back into JC. I'd rather lose with a 22 year old than a 32 year old.

Posted by: Gweez | November 17, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Gweez,

At this point a gimmick would be better than the crap we saw last night.

Posted by: p1funk | November 17, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Heh you may be right p1funk.


I still think it's not the answer though. We'll see we are still in 6th place in the division and have a wild card spot if the season ended today. As usual though we will be fighting tooth and nail to the last game of the year for a playoff spot. I wouldn't mind a meaningless game oh...once a decade.

Posted by: Gweez | November 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Still, 6-4 is better than .500, Philly tied, and Portis played through the pain (assuming Zorn's pants were not on fire).

Heading west to Latte Country, I'm sensing a big win ... I'm pretty sure that Nate and PDiddy repping for the Skins out there will totally match the hometown fans' 12th man effect. Maybe they will bring towels. Skins fans with towels in Seattle would totally take the home crowd out of the game.

Posted by: dcsween | November 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

p1funk - I agree with you completely

The o-line is a bunch of overpaid and ancient vets who just collect their paychecks. Jansen has been great for the 'Skins, and I think we all respect what he's done for us. But's it time. At his age, Thomas should go back to what he does best--stuff his face with McDonalds.

I don't think Campbell has regressed, he has no time at all. However, he still holds onto the football too long. Just get rid of it, Jason!

As for Zorn and the Gibbs chatter- Gibbs is a smart man. And he's a diplomat. He knew the shortcomings of this roster, and tried valiantly to win with it. Zorn has to understand that this team is a running team -- i.e. he has to run 60% of the time, even if it's for 3 yards a pop. Last name, that drive which ended with Campbell's sack, illustrates my point. Zorn kept on calling passes. Keep the D honest. Run.
What annoys me is that it was Dallas the team lost to. THe Cowboys just aren't that good.

And really, Springs is a joke. Clinton may have lost a step, but he was a gamer. I can say nothing wrong about him.

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | November 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Those are you that said that we should have stayed with the run last night are right, but....

1)Portis can not play a whole game any more. He is so banged up that you will not see him carry for over 20 carries in any game the rest of the season.

2)Betts is still injured. He is a great replacement for Portis when he is healthy.

3)Shaun Alexander just is not getting it done. Did anyone really expect him to come in stone cold in the middle of season and to perform like we needed him to? Mason probably would have been the better choice since he is familiar with the system.

4)The lack of any downfield passing attack due to the bad pass blocking forced the Skins into a running game against a stacked defense. We can not sustain any drives with this line now. Our best running plays are draws. That is not the sign of a good run blocking team.

5) Heyer over Jansen is not the answer. Heyer requires the tight end to block on his side as well. Patrick Kearney will eat Heyer up once again next week if he starts. The injury to Chris Samuels is actually the key to the line. A healthy Chris Samuels can block one on one against anyone, but Samuels is not even close to healthy. Neither side of the line can dominate now so it makes defending the run easier.

As frustrating as it was to watch the Washington offense settle for 3 yard pass plays that is all that we could do given the time that Campbell had to pass. ARE and Thomas have to catch those drive sustaining passes--that is what the second and third receivers have to do on any team. (Anyone else miss Reche Caldwell?)

Posted by: driley | November 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I literally went blind watching the game last night and haven't recovered my eyesight. Doctor says it should take until Wednesday at least. 100% serious.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 17, 2008 9:37 AM

Sorry to hear this Truth. How are you blogging? Is your mother helping you?

When you get well enough to read this, can you tell us whether the doctor warned you that you shouldn't masturbate while you're watching the NFL? Do you have hair in your palms?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

ok, let's not get too ahead of ourselves, it was a bad loss no doubt, but we are 6-4 and hold the tie breaker over the boys. right now there are only 2 teams that are sure to have a winning record, no other team even has 8 wins yet. We'll be fine as soon as Zorn remembers to run the damn ball. Last 2 games 78 pass attempts, Portis 28 carries. That philosophy is flawed. Both of those games were well within reach late in the second half.

Posted by: russelljharris | November 17, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"Sorry to hear this Truth. How are you blogging? Is your mother helping you?

When you get well enough to read this, can you tell us whether the doctor warned you that you shouldn't masturbate while you're watching the NFL? Do you have hair in your palms?

Posted by: talent_evaluator"\


wtf

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 17, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

17's stats w/ JJ vs SH (note Detroit in here for both starters as SH was the LT in that game, I have posted those # after so you can factor that into what you see)
Jansen as a starter
Record 4 W 3 L
comp 137
attempt 214
comp% 0.64
Yds 1475
avg per pass 10.77
TD 5
INT 3
Sak 21 3 per game
Sakyds 142

SH
Record 3 w 1 L
comp 84
attempt 121
comp% 0.69
Yds 975
avg 11.61
TD 5
INT 0
Sak 8 2 per game
Sakyds 64

@ DET Opponent
W   25-17 Record
23 comp
28 attempt
82.1 comp%
328 Yds
11.7 avg
1 TD
0 INT
3 Sak
24 Sakyds
127.4

Posted by: alex35332 | November 17, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Lisa_R

I find it hard to believe that Springs would be practicing with Davis. One is on the first team, the other is still looking for his first catch... That was kinda a joke, but seriously, if he was blowing everybody up in practice, don't you think that would translate into more playing time, or at least a look in his general direction? Lord knows we need playmakers.

Posted by: bg21 | November 17, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

There's plenty of blame to go around after a loss like this one. However I'll still ask why you draft THREE receivers, only one of whom plays even part-time with the first three picks in the draft when you have crying needs on both the OL and DL. Oh, never mind, forgot who's RUNNING THE DRAFT!!

Posted by: bundy44 | November 17, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

"look at all of our wins RUN FIRST, PASS later."

This is the biggest misconception of them all. The reason the skins were so effective in the beginning of the season was because Zorn set-up the run by going to the pass. This happened in every one of our first 5 games, with the exception of 1 game: Week 1 @ Giants. At Dallas and at Philly Portis went off IN THE 4TH QUARTER. THAT is where he would do his damage. JC, Moss, Cooley, and ARE would soften teams up, Portis would finish them off.

Since Philly, Zorn has lost his identity. He began to believe the hype that Portis was the guy carrying this team (he wasn't). He began to believe the hype that Portis is this unstoppable force (as much as I love him, he isn't). During the first 5 weeks, Portis was the beneficiary of a creative offense and the most dangerous downfield combo in the league with JC/Moss. Philly resorted to triple-teaming Moss, even when he had zero catches well into the 2nd half. That's what made Portis go.

Now, it seems like Zorn believes only Portis can carry this team. He also has completely moved away from the "midwest" style offense, largely taking away Moss' deep routes, JC's shotgun formations, and Portis' playaction passes. He's nearly completely transitioned this team to the "West Coast", which in my mind signifies foolish pride. Stick with what works. You found a formula fit for this team, why ruin it? I know he's a west coast guy, but sometimes you've got to take one for the team.

I truly hope this is a wake-up call for Zorn. Put your trust back in Campbell. Simplify the offense. Stretch the field. And most importantly, get back to the aggressive nature of the underdog fighting to steal a game on the road.

Posted by: spizzle | November 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Right on, egrib! Campbell is not to blame, nor the coaching. We are 6-4 in a tough league because the coaching has been excellent and have played inspired ball. We are starting to lose games, simply, because we lack physicality, youth and strength on our lines. Players begin to decline athletically in their late 20s, and our entire O-line is well into their 30s. These are not place kickers, but men who get put through the grinder against 300-pounders on every play. By the time they reach 32, 33, 34, they're spent, slower, have permanently injured parts, less flexibility and can no longer hold off young, cut, fast, fresh & hungry 23-year-olds. Even Samuels, still an excellent blocker, is noticeably less effective against premier D-linemen. Our line still has the bulk and savvy to push forward somewhat, which is why Portis is having a good year. But blocking for the passer takes speed, flexibility, the physical ability to shift course and balance in a split second. That is where age kills you. Campbell has had no time the last few weeks. Just one or two more seconds of protection and we'd have far more opportunities for the long ball. On our D-line, the only borderline premier rusher is Andre Carter, who is easy to double team because the rest of the line is populated with mid-rounders and old lineman who get no pressure on the passer. The last first round pick we spent on either line was Chris Samuels in 2000, eight years ago. In fact, since 1963, we have only drafted three O-D lineman in the first round. That has got to change. Because we have no youth-in- waiting on either line, except Rhinehart, it will only get much, much worse the next two years as our current players decline and we have too many holes to fill in a draft or two. I'm afraid Snyder's & Cerrato's fantasy football emphasis on flashy skill position players and over-the-hill veterans will hurt for some time to come.

Posted by: SammyT1 | November 17, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Will somebody, anybody ask more of Campbell? He can follow the scripted play (in the dumbed down version he can handle)but heaven forbid the defense force a change! Improvisation and imagination are not in the Jason Campbell abilities' column. Romo wasn't hit alot because he made the subtle moves, up in the pocket, or outside, understanding the pressure. The only time Campbell got up or out was when it was designed. He crumbled too often on an interior rush and locked on the 1st route even if covered. I can't recall him making "a play" in more than a month. This is a QB league, he needs to step up already. The view that he should be able stand uninterupted in the pocket and that every sack or hurry is the O-line's fault is getting old. And enough of "it's the play caller", how about we ask a little of the player. The rest of the league has found out Campbell's limits, he needs to improve or the rest of the season will look like the past five weeks.
On a better note- Wasn't it good to see a Skin's cornerback who can hold on to an interception?!

Posted by: sheik1 | November 17, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

As always the Redskins are a 2nd half of the season team. Skins fans don't worry. We have six games left 3 of them are against team with losing records (SEA, SF, and CIN). If we beat those teams. Plus beat two of these three team: NYG, PHI, and BAL. We are in the playoffs. 10 wins will get you in this year in the playoffs and if my math is right that is 11 wins.

Cowboys have don't have it easy. Yes they have SF, and SEA but they get SEA on a short week. After those two games they get, in a row, PIT, NYG, and BAL. Teams that love to stuff the run. Also the end of season matchup against with PHI.

Congrats cowboy fans for winning but you still not out of the woods. GOOD LUCK.

Posted by: Bigmon411 | November 17, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

sheik1, it is true that Campbell is not a natural improviser, like Romo, Favre, McNabb, which is nice to have, especially when you're behind and need to rally. Colt may become that... he has shown promise. But Campbell has made great strides this year, has few interceptions ans simply lacks the up front blocking he needs to go deep and use that wonderful arm of his. He also lacks effective tall receivers... which QBs rely on when they have to get the ball off quickly and can fling it high knowing they have a 6'4 b-ball type who can sky for it. The Redskins drafted three of those types in the 2nd round, all of whom, with the exception of unknown quantity Kelly, have developed slowly and may never.

Posted by: SammyT1 | November 17, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

The 3 picks used on the 2 WRs and the TE, the pick used on the punter, the picks traded for Jason Taylor. Think we could've got Boldin and a couple of big bodies for that?

Last night's loss was on Zorn, but the problems on the the roster are the front office. We need linemen, for about the fifth season in a row, we're short of linemen!

Jason's right about the FO, even if the grudge is personal.

JLC - this time, it's personnel!

Posted by: stevebeagrie | November 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Hey, Omar. Sorry to see the encephalitis has progressed. The Malignant Dwarf came by again, asking for the case of female hormone you stole before the operation. Your mom says Hi..

Posted by: frak | November 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

If you only allow 14 points, you should win. All the stuff about pressure doesn't mean anything - what you allowed the other team to score does, and they allowed 14 points to a team with plenty of weapons.

The offense is THE culprit in this standard issue Redskins mid-season slump, as it has been for years. The offensive line may finally be showing it's age, as the pass protection is really bad. Moss is great fully healthy, but the moment he's dinged up, he disappears. JLC is right - they don't have any real options beyond Cooley and Moss, and they are too simple to defend until someone steps up.

The defense - you could win a SuperBowl with this defense. It doesn't get pressure, sure. It doesn't get a lot of turnovers, yep. All it does is stop offenses. The only time it's been pushed around at all is when it's been on the field repeatedly because the offense is in the middle of being so offensive.

Horton is sick.

They have to win the "winnable" games now - Cincy, Seattle, 49ers - and find a way to beat either Baltimore, Philly, or NY. I seriously doubt they can beat NY, so either B-more or Philly....if the offense continues to put up zip though, all this talk of playoffs is pointless. You...have...to...SCORE.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not going to say much about the defense. You give up 14 points, you should win."

By Jason La Canfora | November 17, 2008; 7:14 AM ET

Enough with this nonsense. The Redskins D essentially gave up 21 points last night, as Dallas could have walked in for a TD on that last possession but chose instead to take a knee and run out the clock.

Posted by: Barno1 | November 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

No pass rush. No pass protection. If we had only one of them we could probably win.

Posted by: kenobill | November 17, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm so sick of people bashing this draft already... ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL HOW BAD OR HOW GOOD IT WILL BE YET... ok. Do you understand that? Analysts usually do a draft recap three years after the fact, not fing half a season into it.

Most wrs do not pan break out until their third season, and most of our draft picks were not meant to be starting. Yes Thomas and Kelly have been frustrating and have not produced, and yes we probably should have kept either McMullen or someone else, but we didn't. Yes we probably shouldn't have traded for a 34 year old washed up defensive end, but we did...

I agree Ceratto made some stupid choices this offseason, but stop talking about this draft as a bust. Fred Davis, as useless as he might be to this team, is going to be a star and once he gets on the field, him and cooley are going to be pretty nasty.

Chad Rinehart has some promise and is a possible replacement at guard come maybe next season and definitely in two years. Chris Horton is turning out to be a solid all around player, and he came in the 7th round. Kareem Moore is showing he can play special teams and as much as EVERYONE hates Brooks I think he got the short end of the stick, got hurt and struggled... I do feel that he will be a solid punter in this league, just maybe not with us.

Colt was another pick that we used for depth, and who knows maybe he will pan out.. but its not looking like its necessary as when we protect campbell hes a pretty solid passer...

Tyron sucks and will probably never be anything more than a special teams player... but hey you always need those and if he can turn into Torrence, who really was not that good, we will be fine.

Rob Jackson was a 7th round defensive end, and anyone who thought he would be anything at all is an idiot and is just trying to be a cynic...

So how about we wait and see on this draft class as we might have actually hit gold on 2 players and found some depth and role players throughout. Yes they haven't made huge impacts this year... but as most of these players see little to no playing time... Davis, Kelly, Rinehart, Tyron, Moore, (Brooks now cause hes cut) and Jackson, and Colt why don't we wait and see what happens next year before we jump and say how bad it is... cause i'll bet you it turns out alright in the end...

Stupid skins fans and even stupider non skins fans don't understand football... its hard to come in and produce as a rookie and yes some do, but most don't and so give them time...

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | November 17, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Well, those who know this underachieving group of million dollar chumps, knew they cannot play teams like the Lions every week.

Now, after Pitt. & Dallas, they have another terrible team with a losing record to get well on. That doesn't mean they will win, for this group of Danomen can't be sure to beat anybody.

I didn't see the midget-owner in his plush box last night? I wonder if his co-GM and fetchman-Vinny forgot to bring his booster seat? Poor Dano, a cigar as big as he and no stool or booster seat to see the wonderful happenings on his field he stole from JKC. Too bad!

Posted by: duru44 | November 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

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