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Monday Morning H-Back

I'm not going to belabor the point here with a long entry, 'cause I know you guys will have plenty to say and I am more interested in that than anything else.

So here's my quick take. Through 40 games of this regime what do we really know about this team? People are still calling for a QB change, only now it Campbell and not Ramsey they plead for. The offense, three Octobers later, is still erratic. The defense is no longer that hyper-aggressive, no-name unit that kept 2004 from being an entirely lost cause. Right now, they're not even an average defense. Special teams is still a problem, with another kicking change completed and the punter is still unable to put a few good games together.

The Redskins have lacked any cogent upward arc during this latest rebuilding project. They don't sustain momentum from season to season. They still appear wedded to the idea that throwing money around in March to coaches and players will solve their problems. They start seasons slowly, likely as a direct result to the annual offseason upheaval. Draft picks are doled out like Halloween candy.

Exactly what has all that spending bought them? One playoff win? They still lack a real identity, and displayed consistency and purpose really only for six games last season, when they appeared to have turned a corner in December and January. It's not too late to duplicate that, but does lightning strike the same spot twice? Maybe last year was their chance to be one of those darkhorse teams that seem to come out of nowhere to advance deep in the postseason annually in this league, but there certainly hasn't been a carryover of that chemistry and cohesion from 2005 to 2006.

If they are not steadily building a winner, and they are not that surprise Super Bowl team (think back to Baltimore, Carolina, St. Louis and New England in recent years), then I ask the good denizens of this blog, what exactly are they?

Sunday was the crystallization of it all. They're up 14-3 on a winless team with a rookie QB, but for whatever reason do not feed Clinton Portis the ball against the NFL's worst rushing defense that is without its best interior lineman due to suspension. They're supposed to be a bangers and mash kind of offense, but they were all dessert Sunday, with the cutsie stuff but not enough downfield running. The defense simply cannot make big plays with any regularity, or force turnovers when it matters. A woeful punt sets up the game-winning drive for the Titans. Sounds familiar.

And, no matter how much Coach Joe sends his love to the fans, and lord knows you guys deserve all the accolades in the world for putting with all of this stuff and paying so much money to watch this weak product year after year, teams do not fear coming to FedEx Field. Some bad teams have won here in recent years - Oakland last year, Baltimore, on a Monday night no less, in 2004, Tennessee Sunday - and that's no fault to the 90,000 people who support this team every week, that falls on the entire organization, from The Snyder on down.

The Skins are 10-9 at home during the second Gibbs era, and 19-21 overall. Not nearly good enough.

By Jason La Canfora  |  October 16, 2006; 11:00 AM ET
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Next: Troy Vincent is at Redskins Park


In the past here, I've been defending Brunell and I won't stop now. I just simply think that we wouldn't be any better with Campbell there....but I will give the Brunell treatment to this defense...EVERYONE MUST GO...I mean, if Warrick Holdman isn't the worst LB in the NFC EAST I don't know who is....and to think, he had the guts to be interviewed after the game yesterday on Comcast (and lead off his responses with some little smirk and chuckle). Also, am I the only one who thinks that the Rogers injury is nothing but a good thing. He has been downright pathetic this year. Him not playing will hurt us no more than him playing and letting everyone catch slants and posts on him. Why the Skins still give WRs 10 yards of cushion on third and short, I don't know. Andre Carter is still awful. He had one sack and afterwards he exploded off the ground like he just won the Super Bowl. Go back to San Fran you disappointing freak. Lastly, when everyone in the stands/booths/sidelines/country knew that Henry was going to run the ball, with time to kill and Young injured, how did he still gain like 50 yards....absolutley embarrassing...
Also can Nick the Kick not get the ball past the 15 on kickoffs????

I asked it on the last blog post and I'll ask it again...


Posted by: DC Luv | October 16, 2006 11:01 AM | Report abuse

One big issue is that this team has little or no passion or fire to them. And that starts at the top. Sure Bugel and Williams can get fired up at times, but maybe someone at the top, hint: Gibbs, should really blow their top a few times at the players. That might get their attention and motivate a few people.

One knock against the offense has always been they are playing not to lose, well that has affected the D this year. Williams doesn't want to blitz too often because of the secondary. Well, HELLO, they are getting burnt anyway. Might as well try and rattle the rookie QB and maybe you'll force a mistake or two. Can't be any worse than what is happening.

If they lay an egg at Indy, then the bye week is the perfect time to trot out Campbell and see what he can do.

Posted by: Rich from Salisbury | October 16, 2006 11:08 AM | Report abuse

DC Luv: Amen on Carlos Rogers. He had 2 plays that I can recall, both in the 4th quarter--too little, too late (and by then, his thumb was already broken!) You are also correct that a QB change may not be the answer--it is the D that is letting us down now. What the H happened?

Jason: any merit to the "some people are just there to collect a paycheck" comment?

Posted by: Mo | October 16, 2006 11:14 AM | Report abuse

As I said, I think we should stick with Brunell, but if there was a perfect time to throw Campbell in, it would be against the Colts...Their D is not very good. We will be running it a bunch anyway (hopefully), so it would give Jason time to relax a little bit before throwing the standard 30 screen plays we like to run per game...and then you take his performance into the bye and build on it...just a thought

Posted by: DC Luv | October 16, 2006 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Reality bites. This is not a good team. This is not a good organization. You don't build a winner by letting talented warriors like Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark go. You don't build a winner by trading draft picks for players not used.

Last year, Gibbs decided he couldn't do it all. He decided that one man could not oversee the team's operations and also run the offense. He was right. But his mistake just might have been deciding to bring in Al Saunders instead of Ron Wolf.

Posted by: CMoney | October 16, 2006 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Jason, I wonder if there's anyone in the front office that ever says "no." As in, "no, we're not going to implement an entirely new offense again." Or "no, we're not going to trade a 3rd round pick for an insurance policy RB." I could go on and on.

Lots of people on this blog seem to think having an all powerful GM is the answer and I disagree to a large extent, but it would be nice if someone had the long term interests of the Redskins at heart. Seems like the Win Now yes-men have been running this team into the ground.

It's almost eerily similar to the debacle in 2000 that followed up the playoff run in 1999. That is, we won a playoff game and then signed a bunch of free agents in a go-for-broke attempt to win it all. Snyder has said that he learned from that mistake, but it sure doesn't seem like it. At least we didn't sign TO.

It is frustrating and disappointing. Glad I have the blog crew to weather the storm.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | October 16, 2006 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Pathetic. 'Nuff said.

Why didn't we run a healthy dose of CP when we were up 14-3?? He IS our bread and butter, not those freakin screens!! I use to like screens (and an occasional draw) here and there, but d_mn! Even Steve Buerline told us we were about to run a draw right before halftime.

Saunders has to strip the playbook down tremendously.

Posted by: 4th Floor | October 16, 2006 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Why did we sign Andre Carter? Wasn't Darren Howard available also?

Warrick Holdman should not be starting. Get the rookie in there.

Archuleta seems to be two steps too slow on every ball. Where is Ryan Clark? And, how are we planning to sign Sean Taylor when his rookie contract runs out with Archuleta's hefty contract?

Three guys above should be arrested for stealing money. Danny and Vinny also should be arrested for being naive and plain foolish.

Why do the Redskins break millions of hearts every Sunday?

Posted by: John From Herndon | October 16, 2006 11:21 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins are more than a bad team right now. They're a bad organization that makes very bad personnel decisions(from signing Brunell in 2004 when nobody else wanted him to trading for TJ Duckett before this season began). The list could go on and on. The Redskins woes will not go away until they bring in a savvy GM.

Posted by: Terry | October 16, 2006 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I know what they are. They're a bad football team. It's a fundamental organizational problem that probably has its roots in psychology more than anything else. I used to poo-poo the notion that free agents (even the younger FAs in their prime) lost their desire, by and large, after signing their big deal. But you know what? I think there's something to it. It simply feeds the argument about building thru the draft, which I'm not going to belabor. Whatever marginal support I had for trading draft picks for young established veterans is out the window. It doesn't work. Stevie Wonder can see it. We have a room full of nice, expensive stuff, but the room looks like crap. And we keep redecorating every year.

This season is OVER. They need to see what they have with Campbell and now. They need to stop selling draft picks for nothing, and that points to getting a real general manager. This organization is fundamentally flawed, and that points to the top. Dan Snyder must change his ways, or he must sell the team. One or the other. Losing to the Titans at home is beyond absurd, and it falls in Danny's lap.

Posted by: Wes Mantooth | October 16, 2006 11:23 AM | Report abuse

I think Joe Gibbs doesn't have the fire in him. Its said everytime that a team takes the attitude of a head coach, Joe Gibbs when younger was a passionate coach, now he has lost the passion. He has seemed to make easy for his players.

1)Training camp at Ashburn doesn't work. It needs to be moved to some other location like PA..These grown men need to be living in a dorm rooom to actually work hard instead of the comfort of their houses.

2)They need to trust their own players. If an undrafted player like Antonio Pierce plays his heart out for you, PAY HIM. The probablity of him continuing to play at that level is higher than a new player you bring.

3)In NFL, you can't be loyal to anybody. Gibbs needs to drop his loyality towards Brunell & Derrick Frost etc.

4)Hire a real GM and build through the draft. Take your time...the world is not ending in one year.

Posted by: Jimmy | October 16, 2006 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I just have one comment.


Posted by: John From Herndon | October 16, 2006 11:26 AM | Report abuse

How does this team expect to build on anything when they make too many changes during the off season? If you want to win now you don't install a new offensive system as complicated as Saunders. A veteran like Brunell throwing into triple if not quadruple coverage at the end of the game in inexcusable. I agree with Rich, it is Campbell's turn if we lose to the Colts.

Posted by: Brian | October 16, 2006 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball! Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!Run the Ball! Run the Ball! Run The Ball!

When did they ever think this was a passing team. Have they seen Brunell's arm!

Too much money on high priced free agents and not enough money on the mid range guys (Walt Harris, Preleou, Clark, etc)

Start JC. I know, I know.. Brunell is the better QB. There is NO DOUBT that we have a better chance to win with BRUNELL. But guess what, we are NOT WINNING THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR. Time to get him ready for next year.

Posted by: Rando in LA | October 16, 2006 11:27 AM | Report abuse

First, let me say outstanding coverage in today's Post by you, Howard, Boz, Kilgore & Les Carpenter. Really captured just how frustrating it is to watch this team. The "We're all in this together" mantra, accompanied by "a bunch of real character guys", "working our guts out" & another all-time classic line of "there's no one i'd rather be in this with than these guys 'up here', core Redskins" is the real problem. There's no consequences or accountability for poor performances and Gibbs is 100% right when he says it starts at the top. The ultra-conservative play calling is classic Gibbs...playing not to lose. The dinky screen passes and short 7 yard routes are so predictable and the majority of the time Brunell bounces the ball at the receivers feet. Gibbs loyalty to Brunell is a total joke, the players know it, the coaches know it, the media knows it & we know it. Is he that oblivious to it? How bout Coach Joe & Greg(g) Williams start calling players out...perhaps that will embarass them into stepping their game up. And the fact that Portis carries 14 times yesterday...what a joke. They get the ball back at their 35 with 5 minutes to go yesterday and don't even run once. It must be frustrating to go to his press conferences and here the sames canned lines over & over & over.

Posted by: BG | October 16, 2006 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Adam Archuleta didn't even want to come here! He wanted to go to Chicago! He stopped in Ashburn simply to drive up his price in the market, but he found the Skins throwing so much money at him that it was insane not to take it. How ridiculous is that?

I'm registering a domain name today:

It will be the people's website. If I buy this site, will people help me build it? I am DEAD SERIOUS. We have to unite. I'm not one for silly grass-roots efforts that end up being afterthoughts, but something needs to happen. Hit me up.

Posted by: Wes Mantooth | October 16, 2006 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I dont like how the fans put this all on Brunell. I mean, you may think he's not great, which he isn't....but any fan who doesn't want to lose REALLY doesn't want to see Campbell or Collins at the helm...not this season, at least.

Also, Brunell didn't throw any picks yesterday, and on both deep passes thrown yesterday, a completion and illegal contact penalty resulted. Brunell did what he had to. Leave it to Al Saunders to call passes when we're leading 14-3 with the Redskins' single season rushing record holder waiting to run it down their throats.

Let's start with the #1 and #2 problems of this team: O-line and D-line. Our o-line can't give Brunell enough time to throw deep, and our D-line can't stop TRAVIS HENRY when they know the Texans are gonna run (with a semi-injured Vince Young).

If the line blocks, Skins win. If not, we're screwed.

haha..and to imagine how peyton's gonna pick apart our defense next week....we can barely handle one good wide are we gonna contain 2 pro bowlers?

Posted by: K-Man | October 16, 2006 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Who's the GM for Philly? Here's the plan for Danny.

1. Fire Vinny
2. Hire the GM for Philly

Enuff said.

Posted by: John From Herndon | October 16, 2006 11:30 AM | Report abuse

The Skins need to get Campbell in. This season is a waste. Get him ready for next year. If we dont get him in now and him experience then you can go ahead and forget about the playoffs for next year too...

Posted by: Rob | October 16, 2006 11:30 AM | Report abuse

If they are not steadily building a winner,[...] then I ask the good denizens of this blog, what exactly are they?

Proof that failure as an organization starts at the top.

Proof that money doesn't buy you a superbowl.

Proof that you need a GM with the power to call his own shots.

Proof that you need a top quality quarterback.

Proof that no matter how many X's-and-O's your coaching staff know, it is the players on the field that make the difference.

Now that last one people are going to be screaming about: "Oh Joe Gibbs sucks! He can't coach anymore! Grilliams is terrible!" Wah-Wah-Wah. Whatever. My own feelings are that they can still coach--but, this year, they have yet to prove that to anyone. Perhaps the naysayers are right?

They acted as their own GMs and they made this s-sandwich, now they have to eat it.

At this point they deserve all the criticism the angry mobs pile on them. Let the screaming begin.

Posted by: Megskin | October 16, 2006 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Well, I think this little experiment is over. Why aren't the 'Skins just giving the ball to 2-6? Why do coaches always feel like they have to look smart and fancy? It's not like "Mr." Snyder is going to dock your salary for calling "40 Gut" or "70 Chip". Let the big guys block, let the little guy squirm his way into holes, and let's start winning some games.

I think it's obvious that next week is the season pretty much in a nutshell. 2-5 is a tough hole to climb out of, even for 2-6.

On another note, according to FedEx, my copy of "The Adam Archuleta Workout" just arrived at my condo in Seattle. It's only a matter of time before someone pays me too much money to make dumb business decisions! Can't wait!

Let the venting begin!

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 11:32 AM | Report abuse

This is long, and I apologize, but I need to announce this to the community:

I have been a Skins fan for longer than I can remember. I will be a Skins fan for as long as I am alive. I refuse to find a different team to follow. But I am officially removing myself emotionally from this team until things turn around for longer than a few games here and there. Call that being a fair-weather fan or a bandwagon fan or whatever you want, but I no longer see it fit to waste four hours of my Sunday afternoons for efforts and results like yesterday. I never gave up hope during the woeful Norv Turner years; I was like a wife returning to her abusive husband each year. I thought Marty would bring in some needed discipline, but being an NFC fan, I was not completely familiar with the futility of Martyball and I was happy to see the Schottenheimer family circus leave town. I thought Spurrier would finally be the coach to make Snyder stop meddling; I didn't realize he would be so lazy and inept. I thought Gibbs would bring back the glory years; I guess I didn't realize that there's a reason the glory years are in the past. Now, I don't know what to think. To me, this season is basically over. I don't care if they go on a 10-game winning streak (ha!), this team can't produce consistently and in the right situations, for whatever reason, and I am no longer going to sit around and try to figure out why not.

I will still be happy when they win, disappointed when they lose, I'll still wear my Skins tshirt on Sundays, but I'm no longer going to organize my afternoons around Skins games, and I'm certainly not shelling out money to go to FedEx for a long time. It's not worth it.

(That being said, I wouldn't necessarily start Campbell on the road in a dome, no matter what D it's against. Of course, that means the choice of giving him his first start against the cowboys or at philly. Like I said, this season appears to be no-win.)

Posted by: OD | October 16, 2006 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I, for one, am glad I chose to skip out on watching this game, and spent my time outdoors with my girlfriend instead. I'm doubly glad I declined the offer from a family friend to buy my sister and I Super Seat tickets for yesterday's game. Knowing me, I would have been flinging things onto the field - probably far better than Brunell was, by the sound of it.

The team is reduced to blaming failures on the intangibles, like not having any 'swagger', or 'not giving the fans anything to stand on', rather than any concrete reasoning. 'Nagging problems' have now given way to 'vicious cycles'. The offense doesn't produce, so the defense is dragged onto the field to be battered. The defense doesn't produce turnovers and stops, so the offense never gets the ball back. The special teams does nothing to save us, etc.

The bewildering thing for me is that I don't know what's precisely wrong. There's so many things that seem to be, and the spotlight of a 'breakthrough' season gone all Pete Tong is demoralizing. Watching this team has become akin to watching a massive spine-breaking clustershabingas that's already on the way. The problems are many, and solutions are lacking.

Do we bring in all the free agents we can in for a tryout? If it works for Frosty the Blocked-Punt Snowman, maybe it'll light a fire with the rest of the 52? Do we bench Brunell? Do we find people to supplant Carlos the Jackal, 'Two Wrongs Make a" Wright, Speedbumph Rumph, Shawn 'Lost His' Springs, and 'Two Wrongs Make A' Holdmann? Do we take the 700 page playbook, shred and burn it, toss the ashes into the Ganges, and replace it with a 50-page book made entirely with edible paste, construction paper, glitter and crayon to aid in the ease of learning and memorization?

I don't know. I really, really just don't know.

Posted by: FlimFlam | October 16, 2006 11:34 AM | Report abuse

It seems obvious that Brunell has some good games in him but cannot be the consistent threat that's needed on this powerful offensive unit. We all agreed at the start of the season that this team would only go as far as Brunell could power them. We should now acknowledge that we're not going far with him at the wheel. Not only has he been frequently off on targets, he's now begun to make poor choices- a big thumbs down with Gibbs!
And this defense also seems to play flat most Sundays. They're just not teeing off on people consistently; tackling has been atrocious. This seems like attitude and coaching. It's fixable, but not on a team that has egos running way faster than their feet.
Gibbs can and should put some attitude back into this chemistry.

Posted by: Harry from Ashland | October 16, 2006 11:35 AM | Report abuse

At least for another week. The Colts game is a MUST-WIN. They lose that one, then it'll be pretty much over in terms of playoffs. You guys are such fairweather fans, keep assuming that the colts WILL demolish the Skins at home. Gee, I wonder where I have heard that kind of assumption from, very recently too, like LAST WEEK.

Just forget this game and win the next one eh guys? Your season IS on the line this Sunday.

Posted by: the season is NOT over | October 16, 2006 11:35 AM | Report abuse

This is the results of constantly sending draft picks away for 3rd string RB's that sit on the bench.

And by this I mean when your 2 starting DT go down who do you stick in the ball game? A 5th and 7th rounder because you constantly trade away 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks. And while they are so deep at RB and WR that Patton and Duckett sit they have zero depth on either line.

Again this should surprise no-one that has watch the preseason.

Mark Brunell = The End

At some point in the past 10 years it would have been helpfully to actually build for the future instead of duct taping and plugging the holes here and there.

If you ultimately want to fix the skins Fire Daniel Synder. Other wise it going to be another year of a team sold to the fans as a Super Bowl winner only to produce at best a .500 season. A successful team has never been based on how much of the fans money is spent on players.

Don't believe the HYPE.

Posted by: dc | October 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday reminded me of last year's loss to the Raiders at home. Now I realize that after that the Skins went on a great streak. Will it happen again this year, possibly yes there will be a streak, and maybe even a playoff game. The problem is that this team will never be a dominating force they just do not have it in them. We have a quarterback that plays it too safe and a Defense that thinks it is better then it really is. What we have here is an NFL team that basically is the middle of the road, and it is not acceptable. Now all the NFL guys will say that's just how it is now, that's a load of BS. Good teams beat teams at home with a rookie QB period. We are not a good team, and even when that streak happens (and it will) we will still not be a dominating team. So basically if you are really down after yesterday's loss doesn't worry there will be good days, but if you want and hope for the glory days forget it they are over.

Posted by: Doitwell | October 16, 2006 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Who are these Skins from DC?
Well, it beats the hell out of me.
They dink and they dunk
Yet feed us this junk
That rushing's their identity.

Posted by: HaikuMan/Limerickman | October 16, 2006 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Enough about the X's and O's and trying to be cute. Enough about the 700 page playbook and personnel whining. We ARE WHAT WE ARE! We had 98% of this roster last year and made it to the playoffs! This team is not motivated! They play like a bunch of punks. We have no energy on defense. We need to line up and punch someone in the mouth. How does a 0-5 team come in your house and run all over you? They had the audacity to go for it on 4th and 2....AND THEN PASS!!!! All we here from Gibbs and Co. is a bunch of BS! I'm not buying it!

Posted by: Full-Time | October 16, 2006 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Joe in Raleigh makes a very interesting point. In the Gibbs I era, there were three very strong-willed personalities fighting out decisions with Mr. Cooke, Bobby Beathard, and St. Joe. When you have three very intelligent human beings and obviously capable leaders debating big decisions, you typically end up with a well thought out result. It doesn't mean you're certain to be right, but it probably does mean there's less of a chance that you'll be wrong.

Obviously, I'm not an insider and I have no idea what goes on in internal meetings with the 'Skins organization, but you have to think that "Mr." Snyder and Vinny Cerrato defer to St. Joe's opinion on many things. And even if "Mr." Snyder does offer an opinion, I don't think anyone would doubt that opinion is "Sure, let's sign a big-name free agent!"

Deference is not an effective manner in which to run a business.

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 11:43 AM | Report abuse

How amazing is it that although there is a different person calling the plays, the problem is EXACTLY the same. The Redskins abandoned the run, and paid the price for their incompetence.

Boz nailed it, but sadly this article has written before. See last year.

Fans are chanting "Run-The-Ball" and *defensive* players on the team are asking why they abandoned the run. Amazing.

Posted by: Rain Man | October 16, 2006 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I'm reminded of the Ravens, in a way. They get on a roll with stout defense and marginal offense run by a marginal QB and win a Superbowl. Instead of keeping the parts intact and rolling the same attitude, they unceremoniously toss Trent Dilfer for Elvis Gerbac because they thought that he was an "upgrade", and they were never the same.
Last year, the Redskins found their way to win. They out-muscle their opponent and run the ball down their throats. As a result, they wind up with the #5 offense in the league. It wasn't pretty, but they seemed to figure themselves out. How do they keep that vibe going? They hired an offensive coordinator and let him throw out the playbook in favor of a bigger and supposedly better version. They've got a stud offensive line and stud running backs, but now they're a finesse team.


Posted by: John in Bluemont | October 16, 2006 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Al Saunders makes plays good.

Adam Archuleta tackles fierce-like.

Posted by: Brick Tamland | October 16, 2006 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I wasn't even going to write anything today. JLC this pretty much says it all.

When asked if this meant he thought the team was too soft, he shook his head. "Softness isn't the word," Springs said. "You have to be able to do something good, you've got to explode and go make plays

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 11:50 AM | Report abuse

K-man, what are you talking about?! Brunell threw the pick that ended the game! As bad as this team looked, we had a legitimate shot to run the 2-minute drill and send it to OT with a field goal. Pick. Game over.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | October 16, 2006 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Anyone notice Kenard Lang getting to the QB last night? I realize it was against the Raiders, but since Carter can't really get to the QB against the Titans, what's the difference? Also, Champ had another great game at corner.

Thanks, Skins, for keeping folks around. It's really seemed to work out for all of us.

Posted by: HS | October 16, 2006 11:52 AM | Report abuse

OK, I think I've come down right in the middle of the debate here (which means I'll get hit by traffic on both sides of the yellow line.) I certainly agree with all the criticisms of the Skins, from the players to the coaches. However, the NFL being what it is, I do not agree that the season is a lost cause. I am NOT saying that the Skins can and or will turn things around, but considering the great points a previous poster made about the nature of the NFC East, they season is not yet lost. The Skins have certainly put themselves in the position where a win against the Colts going is nearly a must-win (and I am sure that a loss with two weeks to think about it will result in almost everyone burying the season at that point, and it would be hard to counter that sentiment.) But I agree with previous commentary that the path to the playoffs, as tortured as it is, still exists, but now exclusively through winning the division. The NFC East champ could seriously end up with a 9-7 record at best. So the key remains our 4 division games while somehow keeping the overall record so that it matters. Yeah, yeah, I know easy to say and probably not going to happen.

I give it a 26% chance. Oh wait, 2-6. Maybe that could be a key....coulda swore I saw some stats showing how weak our opponents rush defense was and how rushing keeps our defense off the field....

26% chance. But not lost, yet. Upset the Colts (ha!) and the tone of the season changes. But the division title is now our only real path to the playoffs now.

Posted by: HaikuMan | October 16, 2006 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I have been a supporter of Brunell through a lot. I trash talked him through 2004, but he showed me what he can do last year, and I applauded him. Even got behind him through this whole year. But even in 2005 his success and "brilliance" was sporadic, if not fleeting.

We can't have an aging quarterback, managing games anymore. Does anyone think that we can go 8-2 or 7-3 through the rest of the season when Brunell shows up 2 or 3 out of every 6 games? It ain't happening. And then we're on to 2007, and Brunell is turning 37.

Will Campbell take us to 8-3 or 7-3? Probably not, but he'll hopefully be a more seasoned young QB next year with some in-game experience.

I think we need to get Campbell out there and playing. He needs to start getting his on field action now. I don't actually think he will get us into the playoffs, but neither will Brunell.

I can chalk mediocre games up to "gaining experience" for Campbell. What hope can I draw from mediocre (losing) games posted by a 36 year old QB?

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 11:54 AM | Report abuse

What are they? They're the REDSKINS. Pick any outfit from 91 on.

Posted by: TB | October 16, 2006 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I blame the demise of this team on the shoulders of the owner... Danny-boy. Ever since he took over the club, the team's identity has never been established. Sure, Norv had to go, but the carousel of coaches that came and went was a whos-who of money over substance. The only real coach we had was Marty Shottenheimer, and look what he is doing in San Diego. Gibbs is a retread that should have stayed in NASCAR. The great coach and motivator has delegated all of his power and aura to guys who were failures as head coaches. Danny....stop spending all of your millions (even though we all know you can afford it) and hire a GM to build this team from ground up. Skins are like a ship that is too top heavy. Sooner or later it is going to topple and sink.

Posted by: David in SD | October 16, 2006 11:57 AM | Report abuse

RUN THE @#$%^&* BALL!!!!
RUN THE @#$%^&* BALL!!!!
RUN THE @#$%^&* BALL!!!!

Can Jason Campbell tackle? Can he punt the ball? Can he call 50 Gut and 70 Chip? This team has a lot more problems than starting QB

Posted by: Traffic Guy | October 16, 2006 11:59 AM | Report abuse

hey guys is it a bad time to blog about our game.wawawawawa

Posted by: peyton manning | October 16, 2006 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Welcome to two years ago. Instead of Breaux and Gibbs looking at the playsheet like idiots we have Gibbs standing their shaking his head with his arms folded and Saunders with zero confidence in his QB like B Mitch said yesterday. It was bubble screens to Coles now it's Moss and Randel El. Here's Brunell's arsenal. The skip the ball across the field, the underthrow and the once in awhile get lucky play because our wideout makes an amazing catch.

Someone remind me this coming offseason not to have any expectations of this team because they shatter them by week 5 or 6 every year.

By the way don't bother watching the 2007 draft because the Skins don't need picks. They got it all figured out.

It's like a bad groundhog day movie gone bad.

Posted by: calebt17 | October 16, 2006 12:02 PM | Report abuse

i'm not going to bash any individuals here, those of us that watch the games each week know who the problems are. Although the season is not officially over, does anyone truly feel that this team, (from what they have seen so far this year)can win more than 6 games. I know, I know, if they can do this or if they can do that, if it were that easy maybe they wouldn't be 2-4. This is a bad team and i would love to see a few names on the waivers wire.

Posted by: russ | October 16, 2006 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Why do people praise Snyder when he brings in the people, but crucify him when some things turn south? Are you all saying you want the Bidwell's to own this team and not spend any money on players? Then you'd be screaming for their heads because they aren't spending anything. Would you guys rather have Snyder hold onto all of the money he's making from selling tickets and merchandise rather than pour it into the team? Yes, he's made mistakes in the past, but he just wants the team to win... just like all of you.

Now onto Brunell...
He's a serviceable QB and this team can win with him, but he's not the best QB for the system that Saunders wants to call. It's true that Brunell wants to throw only to Cooley or Moss. You can see it at the games. To be effective, the Saunders system relies on him to throw to the others which are open (or not as covered), but Brunell is unwilling to pull the trigger on those most of the time (except for yesterday's pass to Brandon). If the 'Skins actually played Gibbs' version of Redskins football where we pound the run until the other team cried, "Mercy" (with an occasional PA pass), then we'd have a win today, Brunell would look like a hero and people wouldn't be calling for heads to roll from the top down.

Posted by: QFB | October 16, 2006 12:06 PM | Report abuse

In contrast to the Wizards, who this offseason demonstrated that they are a REAL organization by refusing to resign Jared Jefferies, the 'skins continue to show that they are incapable of making personnel decisions. Jason Campbell is the ultimate example of this failure. Why in the world would Gibbs give 3 draft picks to grab a guy that, we must assume by now, can't contribute. Wouldn't it have been nice to have a few talented young guys on the field rather than late-round draft choices, or worse, cast-offs from other teams taking up major minutes?

On the other hand, let's assume Gibbs was on to something when he grabbed Campbell. Well, the time to start him is now b/c judging from the posted comments this team is not capable of making the playoffs, particularly in the NFC East. So what good does playing Brunell do? He can't be the QB next year. Can he? By starting Campbell, we the fans might be offered some hope about the future b/c right now we are on a path to nowhere. If Campbell ain't the future, then we better know sooner rather than later.

And might I add, I believe that continuing to play Brunell, when it is obvious that he is severely limited (did you read the Post article about the Titans thanking Brunell after the game), will fracture the credibility of the coaching staff if it hasn't already.

Posted by: Marc | October 16, 2006 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Limerickman takes the prize today! Of course, there IS no prize, but if there were, he'd get it.

Posted by: Jason's editor | October 16, 2006 12:08 PM | Report abuse

JLC, would you please do all of us a favor? Print out a couple hundred copies of John From Herndon's post, and hand one out to every player, coach and employee on the Redskin's payroll that you see at the next practice. I think it pretty much sums up the sentiments of the Redskins hardcore fandom:

I just have one comment.


Posted by: John From Herndon | October 16, 2006 11:26 AM

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 12:12 PM | Report abuse

when will every one realize snyder spends money because it keeps sucker fans spending money on his high prices for everything from seats to parking.he doubles his money with false expectations.

Posted by: just a thought | October 16, 2006 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Traffic Guy

Please stop defending Brunell. Do you really think he is going to win a game for us? He can't get it done and we all know it. Is Campbell going to get us to the playoff? No, but Brunell is not going to get us there either. Nor should he be here next year. So start giving the kid playing time to see what you have. So, next year will not be a wasted year. And if one more person defend Brunell I am going to go to the Brooklyn bridge and jump! His time is over he needs to just move on.

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Brunell rules (Please wait to jump during Rush Hour)

Posted by: Mike | October 16, 2006 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I take it you haven't been to NY. Every hour is like rush hour. lol

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Age is a funny thing. I came to that conclusion when I realized that I am only a few years older than both Prince and Michael Jackson. Which leads me to Brunell. Not to many 36 YO QBs calling the shots these days (Favre, Warner ??), however both of them have SB rings.The non comments from DS as an owner are breathtaking. Under Norv if the Skins flamed out, DS would be waiting in the tunnel waiting to fire somebody. I guess the Skins are a cash cow, and he's got his head somewhere else, like buying up theme parks. Just amazing....

Posted by: DUB | October 16, 2006 12:21 PM | Report abuse

My post isn't a defense of Brunell. Read it again. RUN THE DAMN BALL!!! 14 carries for Portis? Are you kidding me. And how about running between the tackles (Redskins football). The play calling, the defense, the punter situation. That's what I'm talking about.

Posted by: Traffic Guy | October 16, 2006 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I think just a thought hit the nail on the head. NFL teams lose as a 20+ years skin fan yesterday was depressing as ever for the loss-but losses are just there to make the wins nicer.

The knife really gets twisted for me when I look at/think back to all of the money grubbing freeagent slugs that have cycled through the team since Snyder came, e.g. Archulleta getting pancacke block and showing off his super special blitzing skills

But Carter got a sack yesterday, isnt that great! woo hoo

Posted by: drewfus | October 16, 2006 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Joe in Raleigh, I totally agree with what you say, but it truly shouldn't have come to that. I mean, OT against winless Titans at home? We had 1:06 to get at least 55-60 yards to be in confident FG range, with no timeouts. I dont think the current Skins could pull that off with their lives on the line. Regardless, that was a hail mary which was thrown to an area with 3 Skins. In retrospect, it wasn't the worst of decisions considering the situation they were in (time left, Timeouts). You can't blame Mark for that one. Couldn't ask Mark to do anything more there other than throw it into an area of Skins.

Nevertheless, if you're looking to the last drive to blame Brunell, you're missing out on the second, third, and 4th quarters, where the Skins coulda easily run the ball to victory.

Posted by: K-Man | October 16, 2006 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Reverses are awesome!

Andre Carter is underpaid -- give that man a raise.

Posted by: Brick Tamland | October 16, 2006 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Playcalling yesterday was pretty much the cluprit. The Titans were one of the worst teams in the league at defending the run, and we didn't take advantage of that. Further exacerbating the problem was us NEEDING to keep OUR defense off the field, and running the ball would have accomplished that. Bad day all around.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | October 16, 2006 12:39 PM | Report abuse

hey, remember when we were all looking at those 3 stellar blocks by CP after the Jags win. that was fun. remember?

Posted by: SK | October 16, 2006 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Lots of new posters today. Maybe first timers even. Looks like a representative sample of Skins fans. In a word, losers.

What kind of fans boos there own team at home? Jets fans ... and now add Skins fans. What a bunch of spoiled crybabies. Home team crowds that boo their own team!?!! You and $nyder deserve each other. "Oh, we are about the HISTORY! We are Skins fans for LIFE!" Screw you ... living in the past.

A fan is someone who sticks with their team. Up AND down. The only up and down at the game was the f*%#ing wave. The wave was invented for boredom at baseballs games. This whole thread makes me want to puke.

Their is a pathway to a wildcard game (see previous thread), but only with home game wins. With fans like you, who needs fans like Philly's/Giants'/Cowboys.

A busted up pass gets no props; he should have caught it ... and run it for a touch down ... we deserve it because we are Redskins fans. Make me PUKE!!! For all his cash, $nyder gets nothing crap. You guys want a BROKE owner?!?!!? Move to Buffalo, you losers.

Your attitude inspires the kind of team play you've earned. Rabbit turds.

I'm a Skins fan and this is my team whether they get it together or not. I appreciate that we do have the expensive coaches and expensive players that we can afford. I was raised that everyone is as good as they want to be. Poor kids weren't less because they were poor. Rich kids weren't more because they were rick. But I knew plenty of poor kids who were jerks and rich kids who were good kids. QUIT blaming the Skins' talent and look in the mirror. A real fan believes in his team. Toughness and strength means dignity in the face of adversity. Complaining is for failures.

I scrolled down this whole thread looking for a thoughtful comment, something new, but got nothing but "ditto, ditto, ditto, we suck, I'm jumping off a bridge, ditto, ditto, ditto, lather, rinse, repeat." [Btw Haikuman, thanks for the acknowledgement.]

I have another clue for you. Skins 202 is a Philly spy and Boofer is a Cowboys fan. They are poison merchants giving it away for free.

In other news, did anyone notice we responded to the first FG with 14 points?

I love this blog, but the newbies are taking the fun out of it. Quit now ... the Jets want you.

Have a nice day. :)

Posted by: dcsween | October 16, 2006 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I agree with all the talk about personnel decisions and the overall strategy that the organization has used over the last decade or more. Mr. Snyder, unfortunately, has tried to win the same way the post-2000 Yankees have tried-- paying free agents. This methodology is obviously flawed. However, as last year showed, the difference between winning and losing in the NFL is small. This was never a Super Bowl team, as Chicago will attest, but the personnel we currently have is not strong enough, particularly on Defense, to weather the losses of Springs and Priouleau, and yesterday Salavea and Griffin. Without those pieces on Defense, we can't stop the big play and sometimes can't stop the run. The new offense and mediocre quarterback play cannot, at this time, outscore people. In hindsight, the loss of Ryan Clark was catastrophic, exacerbated by losing Priouleau. While the playoffs seem very unlikely, if we can get everyone healthy, a 7-9 or 8-8 finish is not out of the question, which, in hindsight seems reasonable given the less than dominate defense and the mediocre quarterback play that we will get for the foreseeable future. Having said all of that, the difference between 2-4 and 4-2 and a totally different discussion is only a couple turnovers away.

Posted by: EssDog | October 16, 2006 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Everyone lets cheer the preformace of the Redskins yesterday, a loss to the 0-5 titans at home versus a rookie QB.


Posted by: dc | October 16, 2006 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Brian Mitchell wasn't afraid to call Gibbs out last night. To sum it up: How do you not run the ball with your top rated star back against the worst run defense in the league with a lead in the 2nd half?

And the comcast interview with Sellers was painful. I think he's starting to question the hustle of his teammates. His spirit seemed broken.

A lot of problems going on. It doesn't start with Brunell and it doesn't end with Cambell. I was happy we lost throwing downfield rather than throwing a 5 yard out. The last play only locked up the loss. The 2nd half was a loss all in itself. No heroic comeback was going to change the fact that the defense was awful and the offense wasn't playing to the team's strength.

Posted by: Dorf | October 16, 2006 12:50 PM | Report abuse

EssDog, good point on missed turnovers. That first Monday night game against the Vikings really was a picture of one or two turnovers (or even a missed big play) being the difference btwn win/loss.

Posted by: dcsween | October 16, 2006 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I didn't see or hear the game yesterday - just saw the score on ESPN. I was very disppointed. I'm not a coach, not a player, just a fan, but my uneducated opinion is the Redskins "big" people aren't as good as the teams they're playing. You have to run the football & stop the run - 2 things they didn't do consistently yesterday. Perhaps Parcells "planet theory" (get the biggest people on the planet on your team) is the heart of why the Redskins aren't competitive. Gosh, they had a 5th & 6th round draft picks starting yesterday on the D-line. Beathard put together the "Hogs" who in their prime out muscled opponents - the 'Skins aren't/can't do that now. Don't get me wrong I know the players they have now could/would push me all over the field, but to me it's apparent the Redskins need stronger more athletic players. "You need the horses to pull the cart." The greatest coaches won't win consistently unless they have the talent to do so. So, in essence, stop looking at the Redskins skill players (i.e. quarterback) & start (through the media) lighting a fire under the offensive & defensive lines...

Posted by: mark - gainesville, fl | October 16, 2006 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Traffic Guy
Point taken. I am just not myself today. Our D got to be ready for a street fight. It's like they just some power puff girls out there.

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 12:59 PM | Report abuse

K-man, we agree about the running game. They inexplicably gave up on it in the 3rd quarter. That was astonishing, given what I assume to be this team's identity.

Still, sometimes games are close. It happens. The Colts and Titans played a close game, too. You don't have to apologize for it if you win.

You are right, they had 1:06 from their own 35. 40 yards would have put them in decent range. A good veteran QB will use the sidelines or spike the ball to move the ball and stop the clock. Brunell had a chance to showcase his great decision-making and he blew it.

Brunell's ASSETS are veteran leadership and decision-making. If those are exposed, then there's no reason to play him over Campbell.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | October 16, 2006 1:00 PM | Report abuse

The Skins problems run much deeper than the qb situation, but I am going to start there (I'll get on the defense later). I was at the game yesterday and had a moment of clarity as it relates to Brunell.

Gibbs always stresses Mark's "guts" and "experience" but how much 'experience' do you really need to execute a screen pass or a hitch? We're kidding ourselves if we think Brunell comes to the line of scrimmage, surveys the defense and then audibles.

Saunders has 'dumbed' his offense down to the point that even a rookie could come in and be as effective (if not better) than Brunell. If we're gonna throw screens 80% of the time, why not let Campbell play? How much 'experience' do you need to complete a screen?

At a minimum, bringing Campbell in would make the defense respect our intermediate passing game. As it stands now, our opponents don't have to defend the entire field because Brunell can't throw the deep crossing or out routes.

Posted by: Smitty | October 16, 2006 1:00 PM | Report abuse

QUIT blaming the Skins' talent and look in the mirror. A real fan believes in his team. Toughness and strength means dignity in the face of adversity. Complaining is for failures.

Yeah, it's my fault the Skins lost yesterday. If I had just believed in them a little bit more, they would have run
the ball 55 times and controlled the clock for 40+ minutes.

I blame the head coach for bringing in Al Saunders. Despite the offensive short-comings last year, by the end of the year the team found an identity that suited the personell. Rather than tweak the system, Coach imploded it. In hindsight, this team could easily be 4-2 with last year's roster and last December's gameplan.

Posted by: cmurphy | October 16, 2006 1:01 PM | Report abuse

For any fans who are still under the illconceived belief that this team can "pull it together" and "make a run", let me remind you of this:

The Redskins are in a worse position right now than the San Fransisco 49ers.

Let that little nugget settle in for a few minutes.

Posted by: CMoney | October 16, 2006 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Brunell is not the problem. I have called for his head earlier in this season, but he is not the problem. i don't blame Saunders who has had successful and explosive offenses just last year in the NFL. I blame GIbbs who is trying to play 1980 football in 2006. Watch the time of possession game. the skins gain time of possession by running the playclock to 2 seconds in the 1st quarter. the other team dominates play. Some say its play calling, slowing up things. i think its overall caoching and the approach to the game.

Posted by: robgreg | October 16, 2006 1:10 PM | Report abuse

This is team loaded with players and coaches whose best games are behind them. For some it is because of age - fact of life- the body loses it's abilities over time. Others it is complacency because they are rich beyond belief.

The question now is who is accountable for this mess? I know that Gibbs would say that he is but I doubt that. Much of what has gone on with Gibbs is the same circus that went on before.

I would like to see members of the press really get past the official Redskins BS and find out who is really accountable. Did Gibbbs really want Saunders or was that thrust upon him. Greg Williams never seemed like the kind of coach who coveted high-priced "stars" on his defense. How did they get to DC? Yes, the team will close ranks but someone will break - where is the real cancer in this organization? I know it is easy to say it is Snyder but that is too easy. The people who pay for this team deserve to know the exact nature of how this happens. If it is Snyder, how and why does he continue to destroy what he seems to love? What does Cerrato do? Is Gibbs past his prime - what's the evidence?

That said, I agree with most of the other blogs, it is time for a change.

Posted by: James | October 16, 2006 1:11 PM | Report abuse


what has this world come to?

Posted by: KIM | October 16, 2006 1:12 PM | Report abuse

First off let me say this sucks because Im in a corporate workplace and I'm about to knock out all the Titan fans I work with in this office.




Posted by: Die hard skins fan in TN | October 16, 2006 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Just think, if we went 2-14, the Broncos would probably do a great job of not screwing up the resulting first round pick!

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I never thought I would say this but I think we need to bring back "Marty ball"!!

Posted by: Max | October 16, 2006 1:16 PM | Report abuse

'Skins are done. No way they are passing the Giants/Eagles/Cowboys to win the division. And the WC? Not happening either. After the Indy game they'll be 2-5 needing 8 more wins to get into the playoffs (with some luck). So if we all know our math, that means they'll need to go 8-1 after the bye. Not likely.

Personally, I think Gibbs needs to start calling the plays again and dump Saunders. Execution didn't seem to be the problem yesterday, they didn't run the ball nearly enough.

What is that stat relating to Gibbs? When his teams rush the ball more than 30 times he's 120-20, but when he rushes less than 20 they are 2-13. Pretty evident that they are losing in part to this.

Posted by: CY | October 16, 2006 1:19 PM | Report abuse

The problem with keeping Brunell in at QB is that by the time he and Saunders are comfortable with each other, Brunell will be ready to retire.

Campbell needs to take his lumps anyway, he might as well learn Al's system at the same time.

I think Brunell is decent. He's your typical average veteran QB. But the problem is we're not winning. So by continuing to lose with Brunell in there all we're doing is wasting time until the JC learning experience begins

Posted by: Clinton Hill | October 16, 2006 1:21 PM | Report abuse

DCSween - Do you own the Washington Post? I doubt it. So anyone can write anything in a blog.

I've been reading this blog from Day One, but never posted until last week (When the Czabe actually posted). I was on 980 last week congrajulating (sp?) Czabe for entering the realm of 'blogging'. And from what I have read, most bloggers were negative from the get-go. If I was @ FedEx yesterday, I would have booed also. That's what they deserve. At the end, we are paying into these guys salaries. I buy big merchandise (on sale of course) from the Redskins Stores, and that all goes into Danny's pockets. I eat PapaJohns. My job uses FedEx. I shop @ Home Depot. I eat Popeyes. All of them PAY the Redskins to become OFFICIAL Sponsors. I buy stuff (mainly beer) from the commercials, which is how TV makes their money, which in turn pays every team in the league, including our beloved Redskins. So I believe we all have a right to expound on our feelings.

Posted by: 4th Floor | October 16, 2006 1:22 PM | Report abuse

4th floor: none of those are valid reasons as to why you have a "right" to express your opinion. The "I pay your salary" argument is idiotic.

The one and only reason why you have a "right" to express your opinion is that you live in a free country (granted, growing less free every day) and you can say whatever you want.

So, say it, don't spray it. :-)

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any more... I am numb and staring blankly in to space as the Skin's do their routine weekend thing. The Doldrums of these Sunday pains have totally locked-up my brain. BUT let's get one thing straight. it's like that movie DEPARTED. Joe Gibbs is UNTOUCHABLE with these criticisms.... if you are a real fan, there is no way in $&#$ u can suggest that joe gibbs leaves. there is NO ONE who can turn this around EXCEPT gibbs. the fact that he did it in such short time the 1st time around did not mean it would happen this time around. he had players that were accountable. now we have... u know what, i am not gonna mention stools on this blog... if i was losing like that, i would at least go down, trying to hurt the other team. can't win in game, win in fights or something. they are missing that. these group of skins players are full of stool and TALK. TALK TALK TALK... well SHUT THE @$(*@$ up and PLAY!!! JUST PLAY.. MAKE A PLAY. DO SOMETHING... 2 - 14... here we come. maybe we can be off season acquisition champs AND LOTTERY DRAFT champs TOO!!! whew... sucks to be a skins fan... sucks....

2 - 14

2 - 14

2 - 14

hey? how are the ravens doing? not too late to join?

Posted by: KIM | October 16, 2006 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh, my. This is so much worse than I feared it would be. Someone has actually asked for the return of Martyball.

Posted by: Jason's editor | October 16, 2006 1:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm with the above who want to build. It is much more fun to root for a team that feels like a team. I don't want the Skins to be the Yankees of football. Build a team, show som more loyalty, pay young performers like Piere and Clark, shed (don't seek out) overblown big name contracts. have a rebuilding year once in a whiule. I think that winning the S*bowl is such a longshot; really Brunell's career is not arcing up. Give Campbell half a season, let the team gel, maybe you'll surprise yourselves. But seeme like if Saunders' system normally takes 1.5 years to learn our goal should be to be competitive this year, but building to a mature and bonded team. Hey even the Wizards are going this route; and showing progress every year.

Posted by: bklyn | October 16, 2006 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Cindy. We are in real deep trouble now.

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 1:34 PM | Report abuse

jm220...I feel your pain!

Here's a thought for this week: How do the 'Skins beat Indy? Don't let Peyton see the ball. How do they do that? Hold it for 40 minutes. How do they do that? RUN THE DAMN BALL!!...between the tackles...with the running backs (no more reverses).

Posted by: Traffic Guy | October 16, 2006 1:41 PM | Report abuse

this team needs to take a lesson from the Giants...whatever they did during their bye week we need to do this week and every week until the end of the season...something about getting back to basics, practicing the fundamentals (tackling, blocking, general assignments) and overall accountability to each other...they need to stop worrying about the other team and focus on themselves at this point...forget game planning for the colts...practice should consist of learning the basics and fundamentals...especially tackling and holding onto the ball...ultimately learn how to play hard, smash mouth football and battle for a full 60 if every play is the most important play of the game...

every team i have ever been on in every sport i have ever played...when we played that bad, when we couldnt do the fundamental things...when things were this bad...every time we went back to the beginning in practice and just repeated the fundamentals until we couldnt do them wrong...

what is that commercial they are playing on TV these days??? amatuers practice until they get it right...pros practice until they cant get it wrong...

this team needs to start over with the fundamentals...

Posted by: deadskin | October 16, 2006 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Traffic -- you think Big Brother needs more than 20 minutes to destroy this defense?

Run left. Pass left. Run left. Pass left. Touchdown. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Posted by: CMoney | October 16, 2006 1:45 PM | Report abuse

If you can lose with dignity, then you are getting far too comfortable with it. Let's get some of those Hurricane players, at least they aren't afraid to fight. Campbell? I don't go to Skins practices, but apparently he is not better than a 36-year-old guy with nine toenails. If he had it, he would show it in practice and TAKE the job from Brunell. It's time to hit the free agent market and dig deep for an Aaron Brooks-type guy.

Posted by: Canes | October 16, 2006 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Yikes, it looked like my post about Greg(g) Williams was a couple days too early. I was wrong, though. I thought Young would throw for 300. I completely forgot Travis Henry was Emmitt Smith.

Posted by: Skins Fan 202 | October 16, 2006 1:47 PM | Report abuse

CMoney- Good call. Maybe the 'Skins can go on 9 minute TD drives and then recover an onside kick right after. (Hey, it works in Madden, right?!)

Posted by: Traffic Guy | October 16, 2006 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Are Post reporters telling the whole story? There's got to be some people on this team who are blaming their quarterback...where's that article? The first thing we used to do back on the playground is change quarterbacks, remember? And how is Gibbs getting along with his employees? Really? Is he universally respected for things he did 15 years ago? By these young, punk studs of the current NFL? What's really going on with this team?

Posted by: Harry from Ashland | October 16, 2006 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I believe the real issue here is "heart, passion, and desire. Right now.....the Skins have none. Yesterday was a looked like no one wanted to even be there!! No pop out of the huddle on offense, walking on and off the field at possession changes, and a lack luster fan turnout!

Offense yesterday wasn't the real issue. 22 points at home should have gotten it done. Defense needs to wake up quickly! Greg Williams should pick one starter that's not performing, call him out, and flat out CUT his @ss! Maybe that will wake up the rest of that unit. We have the players to will games! Someone just needs to get them to play!

Posted by: jarresm | October 16, 2006 1:57 PM | Report abuse

can we insitiute a moratorium on the following phrases from Gibb's press conferences?:

" I really can't comment until I see the tape"

"Fought their guts out"

"played as hard as they could"

"All starts with me"

"the good thing about this loss is we're all in it together"

"it's all across the board"

"feel sorry for the fans and our owner"

"Mark showed some things out there"

"we called for some deep passes in there"

"great character guys in this locker room"

"it's just one play here and one play there"

"go back to the drawing board"

Posted by: Like a bloody parrot | October 16, 2006 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Love the Gibbs phrases. Classic.

Posted by: calebt17 | October 16, 2006 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SKINS SIGN VINCENT! | October 16, 2006 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Did someone just suggest that we look for a "Aaron Brooks type" player?

Wow. JLC and Cindy, I think it's time to shut the blog down and move to a new URL. Please send invitations only out to those a) don't call for Marty's return, b) don't mistake ignorance for passion and praise the Miami and FIU teams for turning a football game into a prison yard riot and c) don't ask for "Aaron Brooks type" players.

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Well, I've heard all the complaints. I've heard all the excuses. I heard all the "asnwers". I've watched all the plays... offensively and defensively. No doubt we are in turmoil right now...actually, if you think about it... We've been living like this for years. I think our problem is coaching. We have so many coaches, it's got to be confusing to the players. It's impossible for there not to be misinterpetations of philosophy, execution, and motivation. We are terribly OVERCOACHED. There's no doubt that today's NFL is a highly structured and complex game. And to a certain extent, all teams need to have high-tech schemes to compete. But football is and always has been an extremely passionate and emotional game. The new Joe Gibbs Regime is completely focused on getting the players to react like computers...robots. The Redskins demand total compliance to the bazillion coaches. If appears the Redskins are 90-95% rigid precision and robot-like execution. Whereas I believe this is necessary, I also believe to be successful, you need to have a passionate and emotional team... maybe 70% rigid robots and 30% mad, crazy, scrappy, wild passion! Maybe even 55/45.... But get rid of about 10 coaches, stop trying to control every muscle flex, get a simple plan and stick to it and for God's sake..Let the Guys PLAY!

Posted by: Perri-O | October 16, 2006 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Vincent contract: 6 years, $30 million, $10 million up front.

Posted by: $$$ | October 16, 2006 2:22 PM | Report abuse

If you read my comment on press conferences from last week, you'll see why St. Joe does what he does during his pressers. It's nothing but pabulum for the masses. Remember we (the fans) are not the audience for these things. The fact that we get to watch is a bonus.

Now, what would be REALLY interesting is if we got to ask St. Joe short questions. But celebrities never answer real questions without a moderator filtering out the pointed ones.

Sad, really. There are a few politicians, actors, and athletes to whom I would love to ask the kinds of pointed questions that their status usually affords them the opportunity to avoid.

What would be the question you would ask of St. Joe? Short, respectful questions only...

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Could I also request people with a sense of humor, because Bucktown, you just proved you ain't got one. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

It was a tongue in cheek assessment on the current state of affairs. Dipstick!

Posted by: Canes | October 16, 2006 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Too much upheaval in the secondary this year.

Ryan Clark and Walt Harris gone. Prioleau out. Springs ailing. New players Doughty, Archuleta, Rumph, Fox and Wright in a complex scheme. New position coach -- Jerry Gray.

The result has been total lack of unity, miscommunication, confusion; and, ultimately, Carlos Rogers has lost his confidence. You can see it in his face.

Vincent, the players rep to the players union, and the return of Springs should help calm things down. Still, I think all we can hope for is mediocrity from the secondary this year -- which would be a big improvement.

Posted by: murphyb | October 16, 2006 2:30 PM | Report abuse

The failure so far of this season rests at the feet of Joe Gibbs. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me that in his third year back, we're still getting called for delay-of-game and using a valuable time-out to avoid another penalty. And who's responsible for predictable screens and draws - the backbone of our offense? If it's Saunders calling the plays, it's Gibbs who is directing him. His loyalty to veterans such as Brunell and Hall is misguided. Some of Brunell's passes are not even worthy of an NFL QB. It's embarrassing. And I have never seen a QB with such happy feet - no wonder he can't plant and throw with any velocity. Put the ball in Clinton Portis's hands and then let Jason Campbell run play-action passes deep to our talented WR's. Cut Derrick Frost and sign either Landeta or Sauerbraun. Of course, that means that Novak will suffer because of a new holder. I don't even know what to say about the defense. If Gregg Williams doesn't get his side playing significantly better, we'll be lucky to finish at .500

Posted by: SkinsFanInL.A. | October 16, 2006 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Why do we keep picking up old players? (banging my head against my desk) And I do believe there is a problem with the team in the locker room. I do believe that most of the team wants Brunell to be bench.

Posted by: jm220 | October 16, 2006 2:38 PM | Report abuse

My apologies Canes. With no prior posting history and a name like that, it's amazing that your sarcasm didn't come through in a written comment.

Did you get MY sarcasm? I hope so because I was laying it on kind of thick...

22 milessss away. Get yourself a new map.

Anybody? Reference, anybody?

Again, Canes, my apologies for misreading you.

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 2:44 PM | Report abuse

We spent all that money on the offense, but failed to address our most long term weekness. We have not had a decent defensive line since Dave Butts. We have been lucky that our secondary has been great the last couple of years compensating for no pass rush. Now that the secondary has been thinned out and replaced with lesser players the non-rushing defensive line is more evident than ever. Let's spend some money on some D-linemen who have some strength, stamina and heart.

Posted by: Bill | October 16, 2006 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Apologies back at ya, Bucktown. I thought Aaron Brooks would do it, since he is so awful. Maybe I should have thrown in Kerry Collins and Jeff George for good measure. It's just kind of mundane to keep reading Brunell sucks, Gibbs is washed up, we can't tackle, etc. Just trying to shake it up a little. No idea on the 22 miles thing. Enlighten us?

Posted by: Canes | October 16, 2006 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Jason, you mention "The Redskins have lacked any cogent upward arc during this latest rebuilding project." The problem is that the Redskins organization haven't had the backbone to rebuild since 1994 because of the fear that Snyder might lose marketing money. What we really need is a year where we jettison all of the dead weight, let Jason Campbell learn on the fly, and prepare for a run at the 2009 Super Bowl. The reason we won't ever do this is because it might cause a slight drop in revenue for a year or two. If the Redskins had an owner who cared about winning, or management that knew anything about running a football team, we could easily bounce back after a house cleaning and proper rebulding process.

Posted by: Realist | October 16, 2006 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Vincent contract: 6 years, $30 million, $10 million up front.?????

Are you 'Effing' real? (stealing from Megskin) Isn't he, like 40 years old or something? We did it AGAIN (sounds of Alice In Chains 'Again' in my head)!!

Another high-priced used has-been.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2006 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Everything is wrong with the Redskins!! From the GM to the players. I have been a Skins' fan for almost 30 years and this team has made me very weary, they are exasperating!!! It starts with the GM & Gibbs and the RIDICULOUS trades they make. I am so tired of hearing Gibbs say we must re-evaluate. No, it's time for action and it starts with him!!! He's just too soft! Whatever happen to his talent for game time adjustments-there is none of that anymore! Tenn figured out early exactly what the Skins' were doing & they never adjusted. Next, the entire coaching staff-their is no accountability for these players not playing to their potential. I am a firm believer that each player should have a base salary and then bonuses based on incentives. I think you would see totally different attitudes & play. Lastly, the players-first Brunell is not the answer but Gibbs feels a loyalty when he should do what is best for the team. When Brunell plays good the offense is good, i.e., the Jags game. When he is bad (most of the time) the offense is horrible. That shouldn't be with the quality players they have. I'm sorry but it's all Brunell. As for the defense, they are really bad. They can't even tackle!! They give cushions to the WR's of 10-12 feet!!! And their is no dog in the dogfight. Let me tell you, if I didn't do my job I would be fired!! I am also tired of their showboating. They need to put their energy into winning games instead of all their little celebrations! This is one of the worst Redskin team I've ever seen and it makes it difficult to be a fan!

Posted by: PA Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Random comments on other random posts:

OK, no one really thinks we're going to end up 2-14, do they? Maybe 8-8, or even 6-10, but let's not get silly here.

How is Mike Sellers still on this team? He's not a grossly overpaid star, he does his job play in and play out, he cares about the team -- shouldn't we release him so he can sign with the Patriots or something?

Martyball? You must be kidding me. Just count the number of rings given so far to Schottenheimer and to Gibbs. Oh, and I looked for Marty's bust last time I was in Canton, couldn't find it. He's sure been in some exciting Super Bowls, though.

At least I haven't heard Gibbs talk about "intestinal fortitude" recently.

Where it all starts (after the owner) is with the GM. We need a GM. A real GM. A good GM. Has a decade of crappy football not taught Snyder anything? Could it possibly be a bigger duh?

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 3:12 PM | Report abuse

They're all out...only got deisel...better go to the next station...

WHAT'D YOU DO?!?!?!?!

Posted by: Tommy Boy | October 16, 2006 3:13 PM | Report abuse

It's very clear what we have to do to win. Run the Ball, especially with a lead. We are up 14-3 and all we need is one drive pounding the ball, take 5 mins of the clock get a TD or FG and the game is over. I remember when we ran the ball well against Houston and Jacksonville, it opened up the pass got the defense some rest and we win. When you run you set the tempo, rest the D, tire out theirs. It is so Simple how do they not see that. I don't care how good or Bad the D is, NO D IN THE NFL can win when the offense goes out throws three incompletes and puts them back on the filed over and over again. We went 5-0 last year pounding the ball and throwing a few passes.

Posted by: ryan | October 16, 2006 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Imagine now the voice of the NFL Films narrator:

"In the 2006 season, the demise of the once-proud Washington Redskins appeared complete. Their pathetic 2 and 14 season was euthanized by the NY Giants at FedEx Field, before an actual paid attendance of 387, including dozens of cosmetology students who thought going to a real football game might be fun. They, too, were disappointed.

"By the end of the year, the list of people waiting to buy season tickets dwindled to three. Actually two, since the same guy had signed up twice.

"And so, in an unprecedented move, the Washington team was purchased outright by Wayne Huizanga and merged with the Miami Dolphins to become the NFL's first corporately named franchise: The Waste-Management Redfish."

Apropo of nothing related to the blog-- but does anyone else think Tony K. on MNF is looking more and more like Mr. Gower from "It's a Wonderful Life"? And not the successful druggist Mr. Gower, but the dishevelled rummy guy who wanders into the bar Sheldon Leonard owns and gets spritzed with seltzer?

Posted by: LusinUpSandyBaby | October 16, 2006 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Apparently the movie I referenced is a reader of JLC's blog. Nice work, Tommy Callahan!!

"No, what I mean is, you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher's ass... No, wait. It's gotta be your bull."

-- Tommy Boy, 1995

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | October 16, 2006 3:21 PM | Report abuse

All of this starts with the owner. Snyder wants to prove that he belongs amongst the "big, tall" boys. He's all style all the time. Remember after the 99 season, he "purchased" all of these over the hill free agents in 2000 and finished 8-8. Same thing happened after 2005 season. He and the Syndermen purchase more over the hill players...and get the same results. The Redskins will not seriously contend for anything until Snyder sells the team.

Posted by: BJ | October 16, 2006 3:28 PM | Report abuse

You can do A LOT worse than Dan Snyder. For starters, think about Art Moddell.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | October 16, 2006 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I'll have you know, Tommy Boy is not only the title of the movie but also how Big Tom Callahan (played brilliantly by Brian Dennehy (sp?)) affectionately refers to his plump son.

I love the Skins, but it's nice to talk about something humerous on a Monday following a debacle like yesterday's. The only solitude I found in it was watching the Birds fans pout on their way out of the bar I was at.

Posted by: Tommy Boy | October 16, 2006 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Like someone said earlier, the problems start at the top. Dan Snyder stinks as an owner, and his persona has taken over the idenity of this team. All he knows is put out the dollars, and money will win a Super Bowl. Well, it's obvious that that's not going to happen. I once met him and if there's a definition of an arrogant snob his name would be in Webster's dictionary. A rich kid who's had the attitude that money can buy a winner. I know that he's supposedly turned over the team to Joe Gibbs, but it's still his philosophy, and Joe Gibbs has the pressure of winning fast for the owner, thus buying free agents instead of taking time to draft the right people. The team needs a good GM. I think Joe Gibbs is still a good coach, but I don't think his expertise is in finding the talent, like a Bobby Bethard.

It's too bad that Joe Gibbs decided to hire Al Saunders, because when Joe was calling the plays, and something wasn't working he would make the necessary adjustments, thus turning games around in our favor. Look what happened the latter half of last season. Why did they have to fix something that wasn't broke. I agree that the team obviously needs a good full time GM to find good draft picks, get rid of Saunders, and let Joe coach and call plays.

Also, Brunell has to go because he obviously can't sustain being accurate anymore. He has spurts of good play and then he self destructs. Give Jason Campbell a chance to see what he can do because even if we lose with him the situation can't be any worse than it is now with the season obviously lost anyway.

I'm tired. I'm sick and tired of getting hopes up over the last ten years with different coaches, different players, different systems and nothing ever changes.

It's obvious that this team doesn't have heart, and I know that it isn't in Joe Gibbs to do this, but sometimes I just wish I would see him getting mad and start chewing out people, like a Bill Parcells. Maybe then, and only then would some of these players start performing like the highly paid professionals they're supposed to be.

Too Bad we have the owner we do and too bad we don't have the kind of guys that played in the 80's. At least they played with heart instead of for the dollar.

A frustrated fan!

Posted by: John Matty | October 16, 2006 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Why don't we hear from Snyder, the freak!

Posted by: Mo | October 16, 2006 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Actually, John Matty, it IS in Joe Gibbs to do this -- or at least it USED to be. His halftime tirade one time was the stuff of legend -- overturning tables, throwing chairs, and the like. Of course, he's smart anough to know you can only probably do this once, else you're just Frank Kush (IIRC his name), and the players soon tune you out -- which may be what's happening with Greg Williams.

Anyway, I still believe that Gibbs is an excellent coach, still has it in him, and still cares. The problems are the players and the turnover -- and of course he has no one but himself to blame for firing himself and hiring Al Saunders. He did that with an eye for the future, and The Future Is Not Now. Get Brunell out of there, and get Campbell some experience, get back to basics (players and game planning), and in a couple of years, we could be back on top.

As bad as the Skins D has been, in terms of yardage, big plays, pretty much any criteria -- how is it possible that they've created only 5 turnovers is 6 games?!? That's just beyond terrible. That just typifies the lack of hustle, team spirit, and, yes, intestinal fortitude.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Art Modell was smart enough to hire competent football people and let them do their jobs. Dan Snyder has Vinny "Waylon Smithers" Cerrato, enough said.

Now, if you want an answer about why Brian "Offensive Genius" Billick is still employed, I haven't got one for that.

Posted by: tallbear | October 16, 2006 4:00 PM | Report abuse

When do the 'Skins win? When they run the ball and keep the D off of the field. When do they lose? When they get cute and do a bunch of reverses and screens and not much else. The run sets up the playaction pass. Think 1982-1992. Whether it was Terry Allen, Stephen Davis or Clinton Portis, the record is better the more we run. I don't understand why Gibbs and Co. say they know this and then do the opposite. Makes me sad.

Posted by: Posse Redux | October 16, 2006 4:03 PM | Report abuse

JC should start ASAP for the simple fact that the Redskins defense is non-existent so we have to outscore people. JC has the arm strength to throw intermediate and deep balls thus allowing the skins to RUN THE BALL more. The dinks and dunks do not scare anyone.

Start JC this Sunday vs Colts. Indy is putting up 28 points easy against Skins D. We have to get aggressive from the get go..

Posted by: BJ | October 16, 2006 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Someone earlier mentioned players that the Skins could have drafted instead of Carolos Rogers.......

I have seen ZERO improvement from Rogers. He dropped potentially game changing INTs vs Dallas and again last week vs the Giants (and I can only imagine how having a broken thumb now is going to help this). He seems to be in decent position while covering, but for whatever reason, he has no instincts whatsoever about when to make a play on the ball. The big 3rd down catch by Bennett yesterday was another example of this. Rogers was right there with the receiver, you can see in the replay that Bennett slows down and turns and starts looking back for the ball. Why doesn't Rogers notice this and jump up to make a play???? I've seen this same scene replayed so many times this year it just sickens me.

Posted by: SM | October 16, 2006 4:06 PM | Report abuse

tallbear, I'll take Snyder everyday of the week and twice on Sunday if it means that I'll never have to wake up to find that the Redskins moved out of town in the middle of the night and changed their name.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | October 16, 2006 4:14 PM | Report abuse

So I go to the Redskins website to look at the Vincent signing news and what do I see?
An Advertisement entitled "Rally Time" linked to the team store for a Plush Pig in Redskins colors. They are trying to make more money of a 2-4 team that is headed to Indy for a loss that will dash any playoff hopes.

Posted by: Omar | October 16, 2006 4:17 PM | Report abuse

SM, my theory -- which I believe is supported by the prima facie evidence -- is that Rogers thinks a football is actually Medusa's head. He fears that if he looks back for the ball, he will turn to stone. If we just had a diligent (or any) GM, he would have realized Rogers' over-dependence on Greek mythology.

Hey, let's all start calling Rogers "Medusa". It's not as catchy (pun intended) as "Fitty Fitty", but still...

btw, Snyder long ago heard the Sirens' call and ran aground, but that's another story.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Hey Jason
We know the skins record since gibbs has been back.The man also got us a playoff win on the road I might add which is more then I can say about those last three bozo snyder hired as head coaches.
Hey the defense just can not stop anyone at this time.Why I wish I had the answer but please do not rub in our face gibbs recorded since taking over three yrs ago.
If you dont like it here go write for another paper.

Posted by: bink finamore | October 16, 2006 4:22 PM | Report abuse

A coupla thoughts here:

-- Brunell is not the problem on a team that doesn't run enough or defend anything very well. Having said that, Brunell is perfect as a 'game manager' on a good team, but he cannot carry a bad team at this stage of his career. The Redskins are a bad team.

-- The problem is organizational. There are a handful of teams, such as the Steelers and Patriots, that are good every year and never seem to go through rebuilding. Why? Because they are extremely adept at finding unheralded draft picks and free agents with which to put together a good, but affordable team. The ONLY way to do that is to have good management and a large, well-run scouting department. Put simply, those teams do their homework, while Snyder thinks he can take a shortcut by bringing out his checkbook. The results are obvious every Sunday. Snyder's approach worked for Jack Kent Cooke 20 years ago, but that was before the salary cap. And even Cooke had the good sense to have really talented management in place.

Bottom line, the situation will probably not improve while Snyder owns the team. :(

Posted by: ChrisO | October 16, 2006 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Easy there bink, JLC is just reporting...without him, this blog does not exist.

Posted by: J La C's Back | October 16, 2006 4:28 PM | Report abuse

CANES. I've been just reading these blogs but posts like yours makes me want to respond. You are joking right??. AARON BROOKS!!!. Man you must have just fallen from a space ship or either you are spaced out!

Posted by: bernie | October 16, 2006 4:33 PM | Report abuse

It's true that Dan Snyder is a big part of the problem, but I don't question his motivations. He wants the Redskins to win. He knew that Gibbs would only stay here for a short term, so he sought to buy Joe another title. Gibbs should have said no, that won't work, but he did not. He drank the cool aid and now has to suffer the conseqences. I think once this debacle is over, Snyder will come to his senses and hire a GM and rebuild.

Posted by: Stro | October 16, 2006 4:35 PM | Report abuse

you asked 'what exactly are the Redskins'
Well, I have a dog that poops in my backyard. Once every other week I scoop all the turds into a plastic bag and toss the bag into my garbage can outside. Sometimes, the sun heats up that garbage can, making the bag of poop even more smelly than before. That is exactly what the Dan Snyder Redskins are: An old hot bag of dog crap.

Posted by: DaTroof | October 16, 2006 4:37 PM | Report abuse

We just signed Troy Vincent who is 35 and coming off a hamstring injury. How will this sure up our depleated secondary? The only hope is that he can learn our defense rather quickly and then gell with Shawn Springs to bring some much needed confidence to a unit who like Springs said "has lost it's swagger"

Let hope we can get our swagger back BY RUNNING THE BALL TELL CP's AND LB's LEGS FALL OFF.


Posted by: Ranger98 | October 16, 2006 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Mo. You are not gonna hear from Snyder because he is busy counting yesterday's take.

Posted by: bernie | October 16, 2006 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't get the Snyder Bashing? Makes no sense? How many tackles did he miss yesterday? If you want to blame someone, blame the defense for getting pounded by T. Henry. You think that Snyder doesn't want this team to win, then you're NUTS, plain an simple. While I don't agree with everything he does, he wants to win just as much as we do. If we win, he makes money. If we DON'T WIN, he makes exponentially less money, and if you think this guy is looking at the bottom line after every game, you need to get a hobby other than watching football.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | October 16, 2006 4:48 PM | Report abuse


Don't knock the pig. I just ordered one. He is very cute.

Posted by: P Diddy | October 16, 2006 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The 'Skins aren't a bad team. They're just doing what they do every year and that's abandon the run game for no apparent reason. Use the bread and butter and everything will be A-OK. Indy has a small D Line. Ram it up the gut (and quit the friggin' reverses and sweeps already!), with Portis, Betts and Duckett. After a quarter of smash-mouth football the safeties will creep up, the D Line will be tired and Lloyd and Moss should be open on play-action. It's not as fancy as a 700 page playbook, but last time I checked that playbook wasn't really helping any.

Posted by: Posse Redux | October 16, 2006 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Little Danny is blowing it as an owner. Can't catch the Cowboys owner Jones for those 3 Super Bowl wins. Since I am a Cowboy fan it is great. Gibbs is a good coach but you can't buy a SuperBowl with the cap like you used to. Getting rid of Ramsey was a big mistake. Now you have Brunell that can't play, and a QB that isn't near ready. Skins down the drain. Seems the Eagles and Giants have the QB solved, Dallas and Washington do not. Ever wonder why the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in 19 years (Washington is in about the same boat)? QB's stink.


Posted by: Clay | October 16, 2006 5:01 PM | Report abuse

This is my take from the game yesterday. Mark Brunell looked for Santana Moss WAY too often, even when he was double and triple covered and obviously not open. Why are you going to bring in Brandon Lloyd and Randel el if you're not even going to look their way on 60% of pass plays.

The Redskins linebackers are not very good. Letting Antonio Pierce go was a big mistake.

The defensive line has very little depth. When Salave'a and Griffin were unable to go, those interior lineman were manhandled by a mediocre (at best) offensive line. Golston shows promise, but he's not there yet.

Andre Carter is another overpaid player brought in because of one good season. He shows flashes, but he's more suited for a pass rushing specialist than a full-time starting defensive end (the same with Archuleta. Maybe they should have told him he needed to gain 25 pounds and move him to linebacker. He couldn't be any worse than Holdman).

Why exactly did the Redskins trade yet another pick for T.J. Duckett?

I don't think it's quite time yet for Jason Campbell, but if the secondary plays as badly against the Colts as they did the last few weeks, then it's time to see what the young man brings to the table, because the season will be a wash.

Posted by: Kevin | October 16, 2006 5:04 PM | Report abuse

STRO....You stole my idea BRO. Good thought my man. People are wondering just why did Gibbs come back. As far as him saying no to the possible buying of a title, how do you say no to 5 years/25 million big ones. It just ain't human man. That short term of you referred to is five long years. the length of Gibbs contract, to wander around with no draft picks to speak of. I think what most of us forget is that this was supposed to be the year for the SB run after last years success with the playoffs. Apparently the brain trust of Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato figured a few missing parts here and there could be found on the free agent market to get us over the hump and onto the big dance. Well, the proof or lack thereof is what we are now seeing on the field. They blew it big time. As far as getting a GM in here, that won't happen until Gibbs is out the door after the 2007 season. So, in essence we have at least one more year of frustration to live through.

Posted by: bernie | October 16, 2006 5:15 PM | Report abuse

They suck Jason

Posted by: Scunny | October 16, 2006 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Since when did everyone start hating reverses? They're a good idea occasionally, even if they don't work, they serve to keep opposing D's from over-pursuing, sometimes slows them down just a bit. Kinda like screens, except we run those waaay too often.

All the shifting and misdirection is fine, but ultimately it comes down to blocking and running, and for some reason, as we seem to do 4 or 5 times every year, we abandoned the run. The coaches talk week after week, year after year, about emphasizing the running game, now they just need to take their ginkgo biloba and remember to do it in the actual games.

It's not rocket science, no matter how much you genius coaches would like to think it is.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 5:26 PM | Report abuse

The Skins are inconsistent, and poorly managed by a coach that is really more interested in Nascar than football. How else can you explain his 'we're all at fault comments.' They need a player's only team meeting to get an identity. Without a 'real' coach at the helm, the players need to take it into their own hands.

Posted by: meb | October 16, 2006 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Different leopard, same spots.

With the exception of the Yankees, who have been doing it so long they were bound to win at least on World Series, can you think of *any* franchise run the way the Redskins are with the annual addiction to big name free agent talent and subsequent lack of team chemistry?

Can't we just look at the *facts* and see that for whatever reason, franchises like Philly, San Diego, New England, and now even New Orleans get better results with good team chemistry and less flash?

Posted by: ghtg | October 16, 2006 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Actually, the Yankees' success comes when they focus on home-grown players. When George starts throwing the $$$$$ around, the Yankees invariably suck. But it's easier to just throw $$$$$ around than it is to do all the hard work.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Okay, there are a lot of posts here about how bad Andre and Archie played. There are numerous holes in the organization, but you guys have missed the most glaring flaw of all! You know what I am talking about. The Redskinettes have shown NO dominance on the sidelines. They have cheered with absolutely zero emotion! No one is taking any responsibility for the loss. After the game they were quoted as saying "we, all need to do some soul searching and focus on what we can do to cheer this team to a win." I mean how many times are they going to recycle that same old high kick routine they have been doing for years? Where are the new cheers? This off season Mr. Snyder better look for some new cheering talent, and he better not be afraid to spend some money. I think we better scrap what we have and start over with some fresh big money free agent cheering talent. Sure we have a few really good cheerleaders now, but I am sure we could sign some real "difference makers" in the off season if we just don't skimp on spending. We need to have a "cheer now" attitude. We are not going anywhere with the cheers we have today. I think we better look into hiring a cheering consultant to oversee operations cause clearly Mr. Snyder and Mr. Gibbs have been asleep at the wheel.

Posted by: CPRunning=WIN | October 16, 2006 5:48 PM | Report abuse

way too many comments to read so i'll post this not knowing if its been said:

Travis Henry, RB Buffalo Bills 2001-2004

Gregg Williams, HC Buffalo Bills 2001-2003

just throwing that out there. i know gregg aint out there filling gaps and making tackles but shouldn't he have known something about the tendencies and preferences of this rb?

also shouldn't mr williams know a thing or two about jeff fishers offensive schemes being the coordinator there 5 years ago or whatever. granted schemes change and it can go 2 ways with fisher knowing what gregg likes to do but fisher had the 0-5 team on the road with the rookie qb.

as for my thoughts about the offense, yes give the d*mn ball to portis!

Posted by: poop | October 16, 2006 5:58 PM | Report abuse

CPRunning, I hear there's a new cheerleader we just picked up. She's like 50 yrs old and can't lift her legs, but I think she'll be better than that Archie gal she's replacing. And we only had to give her a $2 million signing bonus to get her over here. I can't figure out why the other teams didn't want her, but that's their problem.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 6:13 PM | Report abuse

The problem with the redskins is the secondary. period. We give up so many 3rd and long plays it's embarrassing. We've given up so many long pass plays this season that we'll eclipse last year's number by at least week 10. We couldn't stop the run because both our DTs were out. Albeit we aren't spectacular at stoppin the run regardless, but odds are travis henry would not have put up such good numbers with our line being healthy.

Also, the redskins were not running late in the game because they couldn't! The titans saw it coming every time and CP was getting minimal yardage. Let's face it: we're a one-dimensional offense that only succeeds when we can set up the pass with the run. We just aren't a pass-first team, and when we can't run the ball we're done.

Oh, and this isn't all Brunell's fault. He really isn't that bad. He can make some pretty good throws.

Posted by: gtn | October 16, 2006 6:19 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, and this isn't all Brunell's fault. He really isn't that bad. He can make some pretty good throws."

Yep, and a broken clock is right twice a day.

Heck, even Sean Salisbury is right once a day.

Posted by: spunky | October 16, 2006 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Why weren't you criticizing Brunell when they were WINNING? I'm sure after he put up 300+ yards agains the jags you were calling for Campbell, spunky.

Posted by: gtn | October 16, 2006 6:35 PM | Report abuse

I have been a Redskin, Red Sox and Boston Bruin fan since 1947 - talk about someone who is taking a punishment.
Redskins - they passed on Henderson of Michigan when they had a chance to pick an All-Star guard: they trade away prime draft choices and try to buy free agents who have contributed little. They let two All-Star corners leave, and three QB's who have done very well with other teams. What does this say about management and the teams scouting system. Teams are not built on 6th and 7th round draft picks, and free agents (some who are passed their prime). And when the Skins had a high pick they took Ramsey and Rosencrans - two very questionable QBs who never performed for the Skins. To give a 1st draft pick and an All-Star corner for Portis - absolutely crazy; and especially when the team doesn't run the ball. Living in the state of Washington, I should switch my heart to the Seahawks. At least they have a bunch of young "draft picks" that are keepers. And, an excellent management team and outstanding coach.
Deano of Washington

Posted by: Dean C. Stafford | October 16, 2006 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Brunell is the problem, but he sure isn't the solution. Start Campbell. He'll make a bunch of mistakes, but he'll get the ball down the field. Maybe it would also force the team to run Portis 30 times/game.

Has any defense ever been so pathetic on 3rd and long?

Posted by: McShamm5 | October 16, 2006 6:40 PM | Report abuse

One question,
why not start rookie Rocky Mcintosh? He can't be worst than that no name linebacker that wears number 57!!!!We aren't missing Arrington PLEASE!!!!!

Posted by: Theturfman | October 16, 2006 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder may not be the problem. I sense Snyder is no worse than Ted Turned used to be and once the Atlanta Braves had people such as Stan Kadston and Bobby Cox - men Turner trusted and were compitant - on board Capt Outragous pretty much stayed out of their way. Problem here is that Dan trusts Vinnie way too much and Vinnie isn't up to the job. As for coach Gibbs, perhaps its time to remember that the great Redskin teams from back in the day were the handwork of Gibbs and Bobby Beathard, then to a lesser extent, Charley Casserly filling in the missing pieces for the 1991 team. A GM as adept at the way tallant is scouted and acquired today as Beathard was in his prime wouldn't have made the bulk of the player personnel moves the Skins have made since Joe returned. It doesn't matter a great deal as to whether a move was made by Vinnie, or made by Joe b/c it seemed smart to him and there wasn't a Beathard to make the case against it, or made by Dan Snyder while Gibbs and Vinnie saw what they thought was value in it . . .if there was a top shelf player personnel man involved in the building of this team, Joe would look more like the coach he's always been and the Skins would be 4-2 or better right now.

Dan brought back Gibbs, but he didn't bring back Bobby and that has doomed Gibbs II to a sad and disapointing ending that might as well come at the end of this season. If Gibbs was capable of building a championship quality team with Vinnie beside him the results would be evident for all to see by now.

Gibbs I first 40 games 29-11
Gibbs II first 40 games: 19-21

10 games is a big swing. Whether we blame it on Joe or Vinnie or Dan Snyder, 10 games makes it clear that this trio ain't Joe, Bobby, and Mr. Cooke.

Posted by: Garry | October 16, 2006 7:34 PM | Report abuse

OD, you hit it right in the heart. I went to my first game in '68. I have loved this team no matter what.

Not living in DC for years, I would annually fly "home" to see them play. I shell out the bucks for Direct TV to see them play every Sunday. But I simply can't take it anymore - one idiot moron, who allocates the capital to acquire retreads, prima donnas and clowns has reduced this team to a running joke.

And our team! Archuleta. Jeez! Peanut with a testostone patch. Carter? Find the end of the line, spin and run! Carlos. Break the other thumb and join the Raiders. Brunell. Nice guy, but he is past his shelf life and everyone in the world knows it except St. Joe.

My ten year old came in on Sunday and asked "Dad, why do you do this to yourself? It is the same thing thing every game." And you know what? I have gotten so sick of telling him about the glory years I wanna puck. All he has seen is a bad team play bad football for 10 years. It simply has become too much. Like OD, I have distanced myself from the team I have loved for most of my life. And like a divorce, it really hurts.

Posted by: hootchboy | October 16, 2006 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Who is making the personel decisions? Vinnie or Joe. Pierce should have been resigned,Smoot could have been resigned so they wouldnt have wasted a pick on Rogers and with that pick we could have had Merriman which would have have cost less than signing Carter and we would have some of the pass rush solved. We could have signed Clark for less than half than what Archaloser got( hes a linebacker in a safety's body).

Posted by: Mark | October 16, 2006 9:24 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts on the Redskins:

First of all, the injury to Rogers' hand is definitely not a good thing. I don't care how pathetic you think his play may be - name any other corner on the team who is capable of starting in his place. And you'd better not say Troy Vincent or Mike Rumph. Rumph I think can develop into a consistent role player given time, and Vincent will provide good depth (and hopefully a little knowledge and inspiration when we play the Eagles). Other than Rogers and Springs we've got nobody at corner - it's certainly an area we should address in the draft, but we all know that's not going to happen, is it? Rogers, however, is a young player who needs the reps to continue to progress. Certainly you don't think Springs is going to be here much longer? Already injuries are taking their toll on him, and he's just getting older. Rogers needs to continue to play - the future of our secondary depends on it.

The time for Campbell, if not now, is Week 9, coming out of the Bye. I recognize that the Cowboys' defense isn't necessarily one you want to throw a rookie into (and let's face it, he might as well be a rookie), but neither is the Bears', and Leinart seemed to handle himself well enough on Monday night. Brunell has never done anything to win games. He's gotten the ball to Santana Moss, who has done things to win games. But other than that, Brunell isn't doing anything except regressing. Coming out of the Bye, if the Skins are 2-5 as I suspect they will be, then Campbell should play. He's not going to get any better riding the bench. And unless he completely has no understand of Al Saunders' offense, then he needs to start getting some reps and this team needs to start putting together a foundation that can actually carry over from one year to the next.

There are plenty of players on the Redskins who I love, most of the guys on the Offensive Line, especially. I think they rarely get enough credit, and they're all talented individuals. That said, It may be time to let some of the Redskins who have been here for the past few years depart. I'm sure this seems to contrast what I was saying about needing to build a foundation, or about needing to use draft picks more wisely, but I stand by it, and this is why. The attitude on the team seems to be one that's all too willing to accept defeat. I don't care if players are talented if they don't give all they've got and play every snap like it could be the last. It's what the Skins did during their win streak last season. It's time they do it again. Instead they let teams like the Titans come into FedEx Field and beat them. If some of the players have gotten too comfortable around eachother, not willing to challenge eachother, willing to forgive all the slip-ups, then it's time to let some of those guys go. Joe Gibbs has applauded his players for not throwing blame around, saying that when they lose, they all lose together. But maybe it's time for some blame. Not in a T.O. sort of way, just in terms of getting some leaders who can fire up the rest of the squad. There needs to be a fire in that locker room, and I haven't seen it all season.

Posted by: Skinsight | October 17, 2006 3:51 AM | Report abuse

One other thought...

How much do you guys want to bet that after Gibbs leaves the Redskins start winning - but with players and a system that Gibbs helped install. Maybe all this team needs is a chance to find its identity. When that happens, lets not forget to give Gibbs some credit.

Posted by: Skinsight | October 17, 2006 4:02 AM | Report abuse

Hard to write this, but Coach Gibbs looks utterly confused. He keeps standing before the podium after the games and says the exact same thing over and over and over. You could almost replay his comments after the Vikings game each week. Other than the 5 1/2 game streak (The defense showed up in the Tampa Bay playoff, but no offense), the lack of consistent productivity is no better than the 'ol ball coach's. It appears to me that the assistant head-coaching staff focuses way too much time on themselves in the media, and not nearly enough time on making players out of stars. Seemed like most of the off-season and throughout the early part of this season, I kept reading about what geniuses Saunders and Williams are. I don't remember reading this much about the Patriots' assistant coaches during their remarkable run. They knew they weren't the story. Unfortunately, the same can't be said here. The game truly has moved ahead of Coach Gibbs. He came back a few years too late. Pains me to write that, but nearly three years in, and with all that talent, 2-4 should really be 1-5. That play against the Jaguars was a miracle.

Posted by: Montana'Skins fan | October 17, 2006 8:46 AM | Report abuse

One game at a time, people! The playoffs are 10 weeks away. No team has clinched or been eliminated from anything yet. Whatever your frustrations, this team needs you now. Let us stand behind them to the end. They didn't give up at 5-6 last year, they aren't going to give up now, and neither should we. Fight on, fight on, 'till you have won, sons of Washington! Rip the Colts to shreds!!!

Posted by: 12 and 4 | October 17, 2006 6:38 PM | Report abuse

QUIT ALL THIS DANG 'GUM FINGER POINTIN'! Ya'll must come to the realization that a vortex has some how formed over Redskins Park and FedEx Field. These are the places where stars go to die and new ones are born (on the other side of the ball). So there ain't nothing we can do about these gosh darn vortexi and we should all concentrate or collective criticism towards Larry Michael! Please Larry!! Please let me sit through another Lexus commercial so I can hear the latest Joe "We've got a bunch a hard working guys" Gibbs presser.

Posted by: 'tana rules | October 17, 2006 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Yes! That's it! No one has seen it! It's all Larry Micheal's fault. I should have known. After all, all of our problems started about the same time he started doing Post Game in the mid-90's, right? Fire 'em! Out he goes! Walk the plank!

Posted by: D. Snyder | October 17, 2006 7:01 PM | Report abuse

I waited a few days to let my frustration and anger subside. It is clear that this version of Snyder's Redskins will follow a familiar path. Chance of making the playoffs is nill. However, if I remember correctly, Coach Gibbs is the only NFL coach to win 3 superbowls with three different quarterbacks. His quarterbacks, all with only average talent, were aided by great defenses. This year, our defense stinks. But perhaps we can win some games despite a sub-par defense with a quarterback change. If Mr. Campbell is the Redskin's future quarterback, why not find out now.

Posted by: Amoray42 in Fort Lauderdale | October 17, 2006 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with a guy up top here. After forty years of watching this team and being a fan, I've had to really distance myself from football this year. The Redskins have consistently torpedo'ed my mood, made my family avoid me, and really not helped at all.

I'd love to find another team to follow, but I can't. I'm a Washington native and a Redskin fan. I just can't watch, that's all.

Posted by: Cruzer | October 18, 2006 2:29 PM | Report abuse

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