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Moss vs. Webster Dustup Ends Quickly

Washington Redskins wide receiver Santana Moss got into a skirmish with New York Giants cornerback Corey Webster early in the second quarter of the Redskins' 23-17 loss, tussling with the defensive back and exchanging several blows to the face.

Moss' helmet was knocked off during the fight, which began when the two got into it as Moss was blocking Webster, and they had to be separated in the end zone after Webster took Moss down.

The two received offsetting personal-foul penalties, and after the game Moss expressed regret for his actions.

"It wasn't nothing personal. It was just that particular play," he said. "A couple of shoves got out of hand and then my helmet flew off and then I got a head butt to the eye. Once I got a head butt to the eye I just kind of, I'm just one of those guys I'm not just going to sit there. And due to the fact that you kind of think about your team at the time you don't want to put yourself in a situation like that we was in, we were already backed up. You sit here now and you say you regret it or you hate it, but we didn't get no, it was offset penalties so I'm lucky. I'm glad for that.

"But just beyond that it was something that shouldn't have happened and we kind of talked about it. I told him that, 'Hey, I did what I did because [of] how I felt once my helmet came off. I'm defensless. I can't do much.' And he wants to keep going, then I'm going to keep going regardless of what I've got on and that's just what happened."

Redskins Coach Jim Zorn said after the game that Washington had to be more disciplined in key moments.

"Our challenge was to become more disciplined on the field, and that's going to be our challenge from week one to week two," he said.

Redskins safety LaRon Landry also tussled with Giants running back Brandon Jacobs in the second quarter, though neither player was penalized. In last year's opener, Jacobs memorably ran over Landry for a long gain.

"The Redskins as a whole is a pretty clean team," Jacobs told reporters afterward. "They just have one guy over there that was a little salty from 12 months ago, you know, 12 months today. .....

"He just kept at me, you know, hitting me out of bounds, got a stupid penalty. ..... He should have been smarter, you know, but it comes with experience."

Redskins linebacker London Fletcher said the nature of play in the NFC East made for most of the after-play altercations.

"It's not a lot of love lost between these two teams," Fletcher said. "It's pretty much like that in the NFC East when we get to go against each other. I think we've got a great distaste for the Giants, and I'm pretty sure they've got a great distaste for us."

By Paul Tenorio and Dan Steinberg  |  September 13, 2009; 10:21 PM ET
 
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Comments

I'm SAD

Posted by: mikeshanahanenjoyedthegame | September 13, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm HAPPY now

Posted by: mikeshanahanenjoyedthegame | September 13, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Time for SLEEP.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 13, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure I could whip Zorn in a good ole fashion game of Madden. He reminds me of one of my friends that I've beaten 10 straight times. Predictable play calling and no adjustments during the game. Why is this team cursed with bad play callers? Its like the ghost of Gibbs past came back to haunt them.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 13, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Moss was dumb for that display, and Landry needs to think before he launches himself sometimes.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | September 13, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

19/26, 73%, 8.1 yards per attempt. The ball moved when it was asked of him. Did he make mistakes? Yes. But it was not a stagnant aerial attack, despite what all the dooms-dayers are claiming.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 10:40 PM |
----------------------------------

Said mistakes included: 1 INT (thrown while well over the line of scrimmage), 2 fumbles (one lost), a 3rd & long audible where he was so discombobulated he checked to a draw to Betts, 2 burned second-half timeouts (both of which were badly needed at the end of the game) called as a result of his inability to manage the clock.

Yes, if he was a rookie, you're right, those would be acceptable "mistakes."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 13, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

I really think it's hilarious how many Chicken Littles are on this blog. Yes, we have major strides that need to be made. No, I wasn't thrilled either with the efforts of many key players (i.e., JC, Hall, Landry). But my God, it's a 6 point loss to the best team in the NFC on the road. RELAX.

p.s. I think 30 is flat out overrated...well, no...maybe that entails people actually thinking he's good. He's OK at best at this point.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 13, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

"What "encouraging sign" did you get from the play of QB Jason Campbell today?"

19/26, 73%, 8.1 yards per attempt. The ball moved when it was asked of him. Did he make mistakes? Yes. But it was not a stagnant aerial attack, despite what all the dooms-dayers are claiming.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 10:40 PM

Call me a dooms-dayer, but today the Skins lost a very winnable game because of poor play calling and poor QB play.

Use the stats how you want, but the difference in this game was JC failure to step up in the pocket and his wind up starting at his ankle allowing the ball to be stripped.

This from Redskins.com supports what I am saying and dispels your stats.

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins__Offense_Has_Familiar_Feel_50796.jsp

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 13, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

I've got a lot of distaste for the way this game's Redskin offensive plays were called.

HEY ZORN: THROW THE DAMN BALL TO MK12 IN THE CORNER WHEN YOU ARE IN THE RED ZONE. THAT IS WHY HE IS ON THE TEAM!!!! START ON 1ST AND GOAL AND REPEAT UNTIL HE CATCHES A TD PASS.

IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 13, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

"Said mistakes included: 1 INT (thrown while well over the line of scrimmage), 2 fumbles (one lost), a 3rd & long audible where he was so discombobulated he checked to a draw to Betts, 2 burned second-half timeouts (both of which were badly needed at the end of the game) called as a result of his inability to manage the clock.

Yes, if he was a rookie, you're right, those would be acceptable "mistakes."

Posted by: MrRedskin21"

Funny thing is, without naming the QB, you could have written that about either Campbell or Manning. INT, 2 Fumbles, 1 lost, multiple burnt timeouts in the second half as a result of clock mismanagement.

But hey, this is the Redskins, so anything less than perfection equals the end of the season.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Our offense never seemed to attack their weakened secondary. What would this game have looked like if the Giants starters had been healthy? 11,12,84,89 had no impact but should have abused the Giants.

Posted by: will_ga | September 13, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

look this game drove me nuts. i mean really...oh really...i mean c'mon man JC play with no i mean no swagger. and JZ what where you thinking? look JZ good coach but look throw the ball it will open the run. the only thing that looked good was the defense. i mean look at the offense of side of the ball was weak. next game i am telling you right now if the skins dont beat the stl its gonna be a long year. and then there will be change.

Posted by: MGDMaster21 | September 13, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

JC Wonderlic = 14 out of 28
Colt = 24/28

How quick can Colt come off IR?

Most of the mistakes that JC made were because he seems like he is dumber than a bag of hammers. You could just see him standing there, thinking, "What? What?" Quick thought, quick action, was called for. Not so much happening.

Stupid is okay if you're a lineman. Not good in a QB.

Posted by: SonofNero | September 13, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Not too mention a big chunk of these stats were worthless.. 3 completions well before the first down marker, and 4 completions that really dont matter because it was that last 2 minute drive with the game out of hand and the Gints laying back and going soft on coverage. They left the middle wide open to keep the clock running.
This is where all the stat pointing by JC huggers is worthless.. Some postings on here even have him with better if not equal stats as Eli.
JC has had 5 years to figure it out.. But lucky him, he still got paid and never had to compete for his job...which is a big part of the problem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
psps23 wrote
19/26, 73%, 8.1 yards per attempt. The ball moved when it was asked of him. Did he make mistakes? Yes. But it was not a stagnant aerial attack, despite what all the dooms-dayers are claiming.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 10:40 PM |
----------------------------------

Said mistakes included: 1 INT (thrown while well over the line of scrimmage), 2 fumbles (one lost), a 3rd & long audible where he was so discombobulated he checked to a draw to Betts, 2 burned second-half timeouts (both of which were badly needed at the end of the game) called as a result of his inability to manage the clock.

Yes, if he was a rookie, you're right, those would be acceptable "mistakes."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 13, 2009 10:48 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | September 13, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Stupid is okay if you're a lineman. Not good in a QB.

Posted by: SonofNero | September 13, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I would say the same thing about Manning. Difference is, Manning is not put in 3rd and longs every time to have to make those decisions. JC wasn't impressive by any means, but the playcalling didn't help him.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 13, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Picture in your memory banks the protection Eli Manning had today.
Now picture JC dropping back to pass today:
the OL was toally anemic at best.
If the OL does not improve, this could make for a long season.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 13, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

What was Terry Bradshaw's wonderlic score Sono?
He won 4 Super Bowls and was considered a dunce by most of his teammates even after he won his first one.

Posted by: elfreako | September 13, 2009 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Can any body please explain to me what the thought process is behind having your corners line up 10 yds off the line of scrimmage? This is a serious question, not an invitation to punk Blache. What is he trying to achieve with this scheme? What is supposed to happen? I think its stupid as hell, but willingly admit I have no clue what the thought process is... so if anybody can explain, I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be).

To me two things cost the Skins the game: 1) Truly offensive play calling. I give JC a pass on the strip play. Caca happens, and it really was crappy on that play. Not saying he played great (he didn't) but the play calls sucked elephant phallus.

2)The inability of the DBs to tackle anybody bigger than an 8th grader at initial contact or in the open field. Unfortunately, the Giants weren't starting any 8th graders.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 13, 2009 11:12 PM | Report abuse

What was Terry Bradshaw's wonderlic score Sono?
He won 4 Super Bowls and was considered a dunce by most of his teammates even after he won his first one.

Posted by: elfreako | September 13, 2009 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Bradshaw's wonderlic was 15. So, I guess you're right. Difference being, though, Bradshaw played like they were big, swinging, and made of brass. JC plays like he's protecting marshmallows.

Posted by: SonofNero | September 13, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have FIREJIMZORN email add?

Posted by: SoCal_SkinsFan | September 13, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

that was funny Son. Hate to agree but at this point I cannot disagree. I still believe in 17 tho. Way to early to give up on him. Thankfully Zorn knows that, even tho all the "experts" on this blog don't

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 13, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Funny thing is, without naming the QB, you could have written that about either Campbell or Manning. INT, 2 Fumbles, 1 lost, multiple burnt timeouts in the second half as a result of clock mismanagement.

But hey, this is the Redskins, so anything less than perfection equals the end of the season.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 10:58 PM |
-----------------------------

Crap.

The Giants didn't burn their first second-half timeout until the 4th quarter with 11:18 left (by that time they were up by 10, soon to be up by 13).

I also don't recall Manning calling a bizarro draw-to-Betts-audible on 3rd & long.

The comment about "perfection" is priceless.

I don't expect perfection; I expect competence. And I also expect progress. Especially from a guy who is in the last year of his contract and claims he has something to prove after the Cutler/Sanchez incidents.

JC behaves like a mentally-challenged adult on a three-hour pass from "The Home."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 13, 2009 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Our offense will adapt a bit & look better next week. Not sure about our secondary. This is the DHall I remember from Atlanta. Big plays for both teams.

Zorn has to work harder at finding a way to get the wide receivers more involved. ARE had a good game.

Posted by: will_ga | September 13, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

That audible JC made was priceless though lol. I would have thought that a quick slant would of been the call.But it also makes you wonder what audibles were available to him. Maybe the other audible was a WR reverse trick play. lol

Posted by: ga8085 | September 13, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

I'M SORTY SLEEPY. SORTY IS A WORD RIGHT ?

Posted by: mikeshanahanenjoyedthegame | September 13, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

I like JC and I hope the best for him. I think his biggest problem is he is too eager to please Zorn. I really wish he would rely on his cannon more often. Let the F'er rip on his first read and drive it in there.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 13, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

There is no hope until Campbell is gone.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 13, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Bradshaw played like they were big, swinging, and made of brass. JC plays like he's protecting marshmallows.

Posted by: SonofNero | September 13, 2009 11:18 PM |

Big Ben is the same way...and there in lies the problem with Jason Campbell. Statistically he compares well with ben in 2008. But the intangibles make the difference between a successful QB and what JC is. Hey, he handles it like a pro, but the kid has no fire and guts. Its not who he is. Good athlete but lacks the natural attributes that separates winners and losers..and that leads us to the issue of drafting on upside potential because of these combine scores and potential based on athletic capabilities.. Screw that crap. just give me a guy who can play good now

Posted by: scottmando | September 13, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have FIREJIMZORN email add?

Posted by: SoCal_SkinsFan
____________________

Quite funny.

~ fellow SoCal Skins fan

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 13, 2009 11:44 PM | Report abuse

yay cutler!

Posted by: mrm0to | September 13, 2009 11:44 PM | Report abuse

The comment about "perfection" is priceless.

I don't expect perfection; I expect competence. And I also expect progress.

Posted by: MrRedskin21
______________

This is right on the money. JC looked slow as molasses in wintertime out there. He looked lost.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 13, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I really thought that Zorn was going to open up the passing game today. The one deep pass attempt I remember was so far overthrown it wasn't even funny. Campbell needs more opportunities to succeed. The Redskins need to dare to win.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 13, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Just saw the game (DVR'd it)... Somebody above mentioned "it was only a 6 point game", as if it was close. What a joke. It wasn't, they smoked us.

We looked JV out there, in many regards, chief among them the playcalling and JC. Just #$@#*% pitiful.

In looking at this, the "easy" games on our schedule can no longer be viewed that way. This looked like a Spurrier team (on offense).

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 13, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

"I don't expect perfection; I expect competence."

And the mere fact that you can't admit that 73% and 8.1 YPA very clearly reflects competence shows the bias against JC held by a vast majority of this blog. Those are not negligible numbers.

I know it's en vogue to place the loss on Campbell right now, but by the time Campbell made his first decision, the Redskins were already down by 10 points. 5 runs to Portis, a reverse to Randle El, a screen to Cooley, and 2 punts started this game. When Campbell dropped back for his first traditional pass, 20 minutes of game clock had expired.

It's a fact in the NFL; QBs make mistakes. Eli did, multiple times today. But they have a team that picks up the slack when it happens. The Redskins did not.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

And what was up with all those runs to the left side? Seemed like 3/4's of the runs were to that side instead of middle or right, and we got stuffed almost every time.

Gak.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 13, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has the football IQ of a brick. Can we please end his tenure here soon.

Posted by: toohoes | September 13, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

At least we didn't get Cutler. He looked terrible tonight! Worse than JC.

I'll give JC a few more games to prove himself, as if I had a choice, but I've pretty much given up. My one hope was that he'd finally get a second year in an offense and with the pressure to perform, he'd get something going. Instead, he became boneheaded and reckless, rather than his usual boring and hesitant.

Posted by: lordtwang | September 14, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

02:11, 2nd qtr: Osi Umenyiora 37 Yd Fumble Return. 17-0 NYG.

Posted by: Realness1 | September 14, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Zorn called plays like we were running to set up the pass. Which might work if we had a running game, but we really didn't because our OL couldn't open up a whole in a tough Giant's DL. The only yards we got running were on broken plays or when Portis turned the corner for a few yards.

ARE looked good in the slot.

Campbell did not look as good as his stats.
Manning looked better than his.

Probably the only good news is that we didn't get any major injuries and the next few games are winable and we have a chance to learn from our mistakes.

The most important thing now is how the team responds to the loss.

When the team reviews films, I would show that rookie receiver dancing down the sidelines, while three Skins whiff him over and over until somebody pukes.


Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Part of the Redskins' problem is, they are so mediocre overall that every mistake is magnified because anytime they get behind or are playing against a good team it always feels like "they probably won't be able to overcome it". I think the solution to the overall problem is going to be a major infusion of talent on both offensive & defensive lines. More than anything else, especially in this division, the difference between being the bug and being the windshield over the course of a season is the quality -- and quality depth -- of the offensive and defensive lines. The Redskins are consistently weak or mediocre in that regard, and as a result they are consistently a weak-to-mediocre team. Having a lot of skill players is nice, but until you can control the line of scrimmage, or at least deny the other team control of it, you can't expect to consistently win in a division like the NFC East. So I guess we'll all continue enjoying lots more Sundays like this one until they get it right.

Also, I agree with Notorious that it's not that bad, just one game. Who really thought the Redskins SHOULD win this game if the Giants came to play? The Skins are improving, hopefully, but they're not better or tougher than the Giants yet.

Posted by: chuggo | September 14, 2009 12:10 AM | Report abuse

it is only one game but the playcalling was stupid, pure and simple

This team needs to prove it can consistently pass the ball before defenses bite on the fragin play action.

If I am Mr Snyder, I'll tell Zorn if you don't stop calling stupid run plays you are outa here by week 3

Stop the freagin no gain runs, lets' throw interceptions, at least you show you are not afraid to lose

Start throwing the ball Zorn, throw, throw throw

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Same Season. Same Results.

Has Manningham taken over Amani Toomer's spot as UMichigan/Giant WR to continue to burn us?

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

I am beginning to sound like the darkside bloggers here!!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

JC definitely didn't play good today. (however, he played 10 times better than Cutler who just threw his 4th interception) But geez! Campbell's line didn't protect him (just like last season), his receivers could never get open downfield (just like last season), and the offensive play calling was pathetic (just like last season). It seemed that the Giants defense had a copy of Zorn's playbook, because every play the Skins ran, the Giants were all over it. Zorn did not have his team prepared for the season opener (just like last season). And this 'so-called' improved defense couldn't get any three & outs, and with all the missed tackles and more personal fouls by Laundry & Moss, it makes me wonder if this team practiced any tackling and discipline during training camp.

Posted by: akjproductions | September 14, 2009 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Having a lot of skill players is nice, but until you can control the line of scrimmage, or at least deny the other team control of it, you can't expect to consistently win...

Posted by: chuggo
_______________________

This is absolutely true, the most fundamental rule of football... build from the lines out. And yet Vinny somehow hasn't learned this (although finally the D-line has been addressed).

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

chuggo,

Redskins have decent talent. They need to put the talent to work and play like they are having fun

Coach Gibbs 1.0 had a working formula
Coach Gibbs 2.0 had an old formula that didn't work
Coach Zorn is using Gibbs 2.0 formula.

Somebody please help them put together better game plans and adjustments. Hire consultants on offense and defense. it is necessary at this point. Maybe we are not talented enough to win the SB this year, but we certainly have enough talent to win or lose pretty. We lose to our NFC east opponents becasue the other teams appear to have more "life" in them.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Our defense gave up 16 points--the Gint's defense gave up 10 points(that td to cooley was still a gimmee IMO). So as horrible as our defense looked at times...they still gave our offense more than enough opportunity to steal this game...but good ole Candle proves his worth once again.

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

1st and 10, Portis gets 30 yards. The second play should have been either another run (if you are trying to establish the running game, let them stop you first) or a well planned pass play. Some play that the team has "practiced" a lot. Something to get you some momentum. You don't need a trick play this early. Yes, if it works, great, but the risk is too great. It made the whole game difficult for the offense becasue it took away the confidence from the run and brought old doubts into players head.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

My take. It did look at lot like last year, but a bit better.

I put a significant part of the blame on Zorn. I thought he should have determined the top 3 WRs before the 3rd preseason game in order to let that group play together a bunch in practice and games. Moss and Kelly weren't on the same page as Campbell. That didn't surprise me since Zorn waited so long to get the group together. A big chunk of why Moss and Kelly didn't do much is on Zorn.

I've been an advocate for Campbell, but he did not have a good game. I doubt he throws that INT last year ... the "let it fly" mentality is going to result in mistakes and good teams make you pay for mistakes. The fumble was caused by a when a great player made a great play. Still, Campbell does need to have a better pocket presence.

The OL didn't look great, but the jints DL is very very very good. I'd say the OL met expectations.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

I agree..Randle El looked very good today in the slot. What is up with the go-go-gadget play calling though? Did everyone see how Jason Candle audibled out to a running play on 3rd and 9 even though the Giants were showing heavy blitz? I was livid...Zorn called some bad plays but he didn't call that one.

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Such utterly predictable playcalling certainly helped NY look great on D and hurt our O-line's ability to protect. Where were the play-action passes on first down? Where were the misdirection plays against their hard upfield rush? Etc etc. This team has a lot of talent, but Zorn and JC may well keep it incompetent.

I don't mind losing, especially to a good team, but I HATE that we're playing far worse than we could, and that on top of the Zorn playcalling and JC slow-to-think-and-act issues, we looked undisciplined and unready for the NFL.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 12:32 AM | Report abuse

The OLine was good today, not bad. They created a pocket for JC17, but he didn't stay in it, like when Osi knocked the ball out his hand.....

Def terrible playcalling, though.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:37 AM | Report abuse

They should really bring in Holmgren as a "consultant". Zorn needs help really bad, cause I don't see him doing a 360 here. And I'm tired of hearing, "Everybody needs to calm down. We'll be 3-1 after a quarter." Who cares?! It doesn't matter cause in the second half of the season they'll get whipped by the good teams and finish once again at 8-8 or worse. I could give a crap if we're 3-1 when this team can't beat good teams. What's the point?

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

The OL didn't look great, but the jints DL is very very very good. I'd say the OL met expectations.

Posted by: zcezcest1
________________________

Agree on this. I think the OL did a serviceable job against maybe the best line in football... so for me it was all about Zorn's pathetic play-calling and JC's pitiful clock speed and pocket awareness.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 12:43 AM | Report abuse

LONDON FLETCHER IS A BEAST.
DHALL SUX!
PUT IN TODD COLLINS. JC IS DUNSKI.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 14, 2009 12:43 AM | Report abuse

The defense was pretty good.

The people that expressed concerns about the secondary, take a bow. Clearly that was the weakest unit on the defense. The TD pass we gave up, we made a unknown WR look like Randy Moss.

Our INT came courtesy of a pass rush that had eli backpedaling. As soon as he threw it, I figured we'd have a chance to pick it because eli doesn't a great arm. When he backpedals, he throws picks in bunches. Credit the pass rush for making the INT happen.

Albert was good in the middle, the jints didn't get much there. Andre Carter made some plays (I swear I always get Carter wrong -- when I think he's gonna be good, he sucks and when I think he's mediocre, he plays well). Orakpo seemed like he was missing in action.

Fletcher was a beast, Rocky played well. I'm not sure, but I don't recall them going at Rogers very much, which suggests he also played well.

The defense played well enough for us to win. I'm not sure what I saw from our defense was better overall than last year, but there was life in our pass rush going against a very good OL, and that is encouraging.

Of note (and I commented on this before), I had a sense that this team simply wasn't ready coming out of the preseason. And it looked like it.

Still, my bottom line is this. We played a tough team in their house on opening day. Not an easy task.

The jints will expose weaknesses in a lot of teams. The question is, will this Redskin team learn from this week 1 beating? They did in 2008. If they learn and adapt, they can still be a 12+ win team (barring injuries ...)

Next week will begin the real story.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

It's everyone fault but soupy that they lost.

Posted by: Realness1 | September 14, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

The score does not do any justice for me. The bottom line is the Redskins offense was dominated yes dominated by the Giants defense for the entire game. That was painful to watch as a fan. This is an average to below average football team period. Even with a 100 million dollar defensive tackle they are no better than they were last season. The offensive line is old. Jason Cambell is an average quarterback and will not be an elite player. This team is going know where fast. Yes they have a few home coming games coming up but, until they beat an elite team I will not change my mind about this team being average. 8-8 9-7 at best sorry just reality.

Posted by: bigjofc | September 14, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

i've been concerned all preseason about our D and having to refind our chemistry after our player losses and gains. No secondary "D" and no offensive run blocking. The passing ""O" looked better minus a few rookie mistakes. I'm not gonna panick yet. It's not how you start, it's how you finish. We have to beat the teams in the near future that aren't "supposed" to be very good. NY owns us the last four years. A win versus them at home would be a good confidence booster.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | September 14, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

when your leader(qb) plays scared it has an effect on the rest of the team. I don't know what it is about the redskins when we play the giants in NY...we always play scared on offense...I know they're good but you have to challenge them. JC plays scared when he goes up against a tough defense. Did anyone see how Leftwich stood in the pocket againt the Cowpukes even though he knew he was going to get punished? Yes the bucs lost but Leftwich gained respect from his teamates because he didn't back down. JC's fear effects the whole offense...no sort of momentum can be generated when he is playing his skittish style of play.

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 12:48 AM | Report abuse

If Jason Campbell would have taken a step or two up at the end of his drop back, we would have scored like three more touchdowns, and that horrible turnover would have happened. If we want to win football games now, and actually compete againts the iggles, gints, or cowgals we need to start Todd Collins. JC is a retard with ball.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 14, 2009 12:51 AM | Report abuse

everyone's.

Posted by: Realness1 | September 14, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

chasgiffen, your comments are dead on.

I'm a fool for punishment, so I'm scanning my dvr to certain plays of the game and on that JC lost fumble, there's a nice backffield camera replay that I slowed down, and it definitely shows that he should of stepped up in the pocket. But it also clearly shows CP, Cooley, ARE and Moss going down field, but NOT ONE of them was open. The next replay is the same play, but a closeup shot of JC's eyes as he's scanning from left to right checking down each receiver. Somehow, Zorn has to design some better plays for his receivers to get open if he want his qb to succeed. However, it seemed when the Giants was passing the ball, they always had a receiver or two open.

Posted by: akjproductions | September 14, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

"win or lose pretty", haha, that's a funny phrase. I don't even care about pretty, just win a good bit more than you lose. Matter of fact, I kind of like ugly wins. A couple of turnovers for both teams, some ugly plays and some nice ones, a 23-17 win; that would make me smile all week.

They have some line talent now, but I think they need better talent and depth, on o-line and d-line. Just a wall of tough, competent o-linemen who can run- and pass-block, and some backups they can plug in and feel comfortable with, if there's an injury. On defense, not just a talented front four but backups who can at least give a good account of themselves if a starter is out for an extended period due to injury. The Skins' d-line is probably closer to that than the o-line is, but still not there yet.

And it's not impossible nor impractical; they just have to make it a priority. Once they do, I think it will lift the whole team. They'll make more of their own luck, because they'll be the ones putting pressure on the other team instead of always being the ones under the gun.

Give me strong lines and decent playmakers over good playmakers & weak lines, anyday.

Posted by: chuggo | September 14, 2009 12:54 AM | Report abuse

And I am retard at grammar and spelling. Go skins. We suck, but we got some easy games coming up. Need to stay fresh, need to stay healthy. Need to get Santana more involved. Ladell Betts still sucks. Put Rock Cartwright in as 3rd down back. Fred Smoot and D. Hall are the worst tacklers I have ever seen. Carlos Rogers is still a coverage beast, but no hands. Chris Cooley looks way over paid, as does everyone on that entire team. What I would like to see from my team is some humility and desire. Chris Cooley looked aloof, celebrating while down by a score with 40 seconds left. Way too much celebrating and dancing from a team that could only score with their punter. Todd Collins was laughing on the sideline as was Danny Smtih. Our freaking SPECIAL TEAMS can score more points than our offense that has an inept qb. 7-9 AT BEST. Go skins.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 14, 2009 12:57 AM | Report abuse

"If Jason Campbell would have taken a step or two up at the end of his drop back, we would have scored like three more touchdowns, and that horrible turnover would have happened"

Dumbest comment I've heard all day. How the heck is that supposed to happen when Zorn is calling the same running plays over and over again? Zorn's scary acting playcalling early on predicated the team playing scary the rest of the way. If you keep putting your QB in 3rd and longs with a ferocious pass rush coming at you, stepping up in the pocket aint helpin

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:57 AM | Report abuse

They should really bring in Holmgren as a "consultant". Zorn needs help really bad, cause I don't see him doing a 360 here. And I'm tired of hearing, "Everybody needs to calm down. We'll be 3-1 after a quarter."
____________________

Agree with this too...

[1] Zorn needs significant, fast improvement in playcalling, not incremental OTB training over the next 2-3 years which may or may not make him into a good coach. Bringing in a highly savvy, seasoned consultant, like a Holmgren, is just about the only way to get Zorn up to speed quickly.

[2] I'm also tired of hearing from apologists for JC's mediocrity. He walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. He's a duck already! Meaning we can do much better at QB. Geez I watched rookie Sanchez today for about 20 minutes, and it was bloody clear his speed, decisiveness, pocket elusiveness, leadership, etc. was much better than JC's.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

The defense once again was not the real problem...they couldn've played better but they also gave us a chance to win...technically they gave up 16 points. Our offense only generated 10 points....this is exactly what killed us last year....no production on offense. The running game was a no go today...we needed our passing game to step up and force the issue but once again JC was off target and fearful. This is exactly the same thing he has done for the past 2 seasons....he puts together some ok games against mediorcore teams but when it's primetime his freezes up in fear...he's aint got it.

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

A quick reading QB makes plays. Zorn didn't audible to a run on 3rd and 8 coming out of a timeout.

Posted by: Realness1 | September 14, 2009 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Meant to write "OTJ" (on the job), not OTB in that last post...

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:06 AM | Report abuse

Exactly...Jason Candle called that run play on 3rd and 9 after a timeout because the blitz scared him and he had just gotten hit the previous play. He was scared

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 1:08 AM | Report abuse

"JC's pitiful clock speed..." Another good one. From play to play, it's hard to tell whether the problem is that JC is too slow making decisions, or that his options are too limited. I suspect the answer is different from play to play. But when there's nothing open, he's going to have to start getting rid of the ball quickly. 'Course then, he'll be an "idiot!!!1!1!" for throwing the ball away all the time.

That sack/strip fumble was obviously because he didn't step up into the pocket, though. Maybe not used to having one. Line did seem to play better overall than they did most of last year.

Posted by: chuggo | September 14, 2009 1:10 AM | Report abuse

IT'S ALL JASON CANDLE'S FAULT....EVERYTHING!

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 14, 2009 1:13 AM | Report abuse

The defense played well enough for us to win. I'm not sure what I saw from our defense was better overall than last year, but there was life in our pass rush going against a very good OL, and that is encouraging.

Posted by: zcezcest1
_____________

Agree with this - the D was good, and I love the stronger D-line and pressure (and I think it's going to quickly get better) although I am somewhat concerned about the secondary's performance today. Still, the Skins D is strong, and will not be the problem for the team this year.

It'll be Zorn's playcalling and JC's slowness.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:17 AM | Report abuse

"Line did seem to play better overall than they did most of last year."

Should have said, the line did seem to protect better than they did most of last year. Run-blocking was pretty bad, not like the first half of last year.

Posted by: chuggo | September 14, 2009 1:21 AM | Report abuse

I know very well the Redskins could seriously improve in the games ahead, and I'm very much still looking forward to this season.

But I will jump ahead to season's end and say I want 4 things in the offseason:

[1] Stronger O-line (i.e. get 1 or 2 top-tier OT's and maybe a C/G... I don't want a mediocre or average O-line)
[2] An experienced, savvy, aggressive coach that doesn't ignore the fundamentals of football (such as building strong lines) and provides great playcalling that keeps opponents off-balance
[3] A better, faster, smarter, more confident and aggressive QB
[4] A better PK

That's all I want, Santa. (Well maybe another strong CB)

OK now back to the current reality.

Hail!

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:29 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Jason Reid will stick with his claim that Kelly is going to play well. He and the other two drafted with wasted 2d round picks in 2008 caught a combined total of ONE pass today for a combined total of SIX yards. They are for sure on pace to outdo last year's performance with THAT awesome start. Nice draft, Danny and Vinnie! Hard to find that kind of talent in the second round, eh? Wonder what level of Olinemen might have been available by then? But OLinemen don't have stats, eh? Hard for amateurs to find any of those -- no fantasy league rates them.

Posted by: dolph924 | September 14, 2009 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Should have said, the line did seem to protect better than they did most of last year. Run-blocking was pretty bad, not like the first half of last year.

Posted by: chuggo
____________________

Good clarification re the OL play. But I wonder if part of their run-blocking problem today was the lack of different types of runs called by Zorn. We should have been testing the Ginas with different types of runs/blocking schemes attacking different parts of their line. Instead I saw the exact same run to the left like 10 times. That familiarity had to help the Ginas... and they kept stuffing it. But there should have been more 1st down passes and misdirection plays on top of that.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:37 AM | Report abuse

Why would an experienced, sawy, aggressive coach such as Cower and/or Shanahan would want to work for both Snyder? Money? Hell, whatever team they choose to coach, they're going to get paid. And you know Jerry is probably going to make a strong push for one of them. Even if Dannyboy agrees to fire Vinny (which I doubt) and give that new coach total control, based on his track record with Marty, why would any coach take him for his word.

Posted by: akjproductions | September 14, 2009 1:43 AM | Report abuse

IMHO this loss was casued by:

80% due to un-intelligent coaching, idiotic playcalling and stupid coaching and horrible coaching and not calling the right plays ever!

15% due to JC playing scared
5% defensive backs

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 1:44 AM | Report abuse

If this team is to be great, it'll need the defense to be great. Its obviously not there, when a bunch of 'who are those guys' WRs have a field day.

Still, the Ravens gave up 24 to KC and their backup QB, so even the primo defenses can't win them all.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:47 AM | Report abuse

at some point, in any organization, one needs to do quality control.

I like coach Zorn and hope he can succeed here. But somebody needs to tell him his playcalling is plain stupid

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Part of the Redskins' problem is, they are so mediocre overall that every mistake is magnified because anytime they get behind or are playing against a good team it always feels like "they probably won't be able to overcome it". I think the solution to the overall problem is going to be a major infusion of talent on both offensive & defensive lines. More than anything else, especially in this division, the difference between being the bug and being the windshield over the course of a season is the quality -- and quality depth -- of the offensive and defensive lines. The Redskins are consistently weak or mediocre in that regard, and as a result they are consistently a weak-to-mediocre team. Having a lot of skill players is nice, but until you can control the line of scrimmage, or at least deny the other team control of it, you can't expect to consistently win in a division like the NFC East. So I guess we'll all continue enjoying lots more Sundays like this one until they get it right.

Also, I agree with Notorious that it's not that bad, just one game. Who really thought the Redskins SHOULD win this game if the Giants came to play? The Skins are improving, hopefully, but they're not better or tougher than the Giants yet.

Posted by: chuggo | September 14, 2009 12:10 AM | Report abuse
____

Exactly!

Also, remember that JC's strengths are his arm and down field passing preferably with a decent pocket. Zorn's offense relies more on quick releases and timing. So, aside from the fact that I don't think Zorn is a good coach period, I think the two together are an odd couple. I believe that is pretty self-evident thus far in the experiment.

Posted by: rphilli721 | September 14, 2009 1:51 AM | Report abuse

Point taken. I should've said I think these types of coaches can also be found among O and D coordinators (not just existing/previous head coaches), for instance I think Spagnolo and Singletary will prove to be very good or excellent coaches, also possibly Rex Ryan.

But I wonder if Danny or Vinny can really recognize when somebody has the requisite traits for HC success. For example, I can't really imagine either of them as "leaders of men", so how would they recognize when a coaching candidate had this particular trait, one of many needed for this job?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:55 AM | Report abuse

IMHO this loss was casued by:

80% due to un-intelligent coaching, idiotic playcalling and stupid coaching and horrible coaching and not calling the right plays ever!

15% due to JC playing scared
5% defensive backs

Posted by: peaceful2008
________________________

Gotta say, this is pretty accurate. Just add to that JC item his slow clock speed and poor pocket awareness.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:57 AM | Report abuse

I would rather have Patrick Ramsey.

Posted by: toohoes | September 14, 2009 2:02 AM | Report abuse

[2] I'm also tired of hearing from apologists for JC's mediocrity. He walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. He's a duck already! Meaning we can do much better at QB. Geez I watched rookie Sanchez today for about 20 minutes, and it was bloody clear his speed, decisiveness, pocket elusiveness, leadership, etc. was much better than JC's.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Sanchez played against Houston. Nuf said.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | September 14, 2009 2:02 AM | Report abuse

If this team is to be great, it'll need the defense to be great. Its obviously not there, when a bunch of 'who are those guys' WRs have a field day.

Still, the Ravens gave up 24 to KC and their backup QB, so even the primo defenses can't win them all.

Posted by: zcezcest1
______________________

And I think the Skins WILL have a primo D, but it won't be enough if their O can't mount drives and let them get a reasonable amount of rest during the game, and if it can't put up a reasonable amount of points.

I thought it'd be the O-line I'd be complaining about tonight if we lost, not the playcalling. Pitiful and so unnecessary.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 2:06 AM | Report abuse

Heaven help us if next week we lose to the lowly Rams (just like last season). Dannyboy will be on his warpath and will make changes immediately.

Posted by: akjproductions | September 14, 2009 2:08 AM | Report abuse

And the mere fact that you can't admit that 73% and 8.1 YPA very clearly reflects competence shows the bias against JC held by a vast majority of this blog. Those are not negligible numbers.

I know it's en vogue to place the loss on Campbell right now, but by the time Campbell made his first decision, the Redskins were already down by 10 points. 5 runs to Portis, a reverse to Randle El, a screen to Cooley, and 2 punts started this game. When Campbell dropped back for his first traditional pass, 20 minutes of game clock had expired.

It's a fact in the NFL; QBs make mistakes. Eli did, multiple times today. But they have a team that picks up the slack when it happens. The Redskins did not.

Posted by: psps23 | September 13, 2009 11:52 PM |
----------------------------

I don't have a bias against JC. In fact, up until this game I've been one of his strongest supporters - RI threads from the past two years show that.

But there comes a time when you realize it's not going to happen. Ever. He's a mediocre (at best) NFL QB.

The stats are fun, but not much help. All the passer ratings, YPA, and completion % in the world doesn't trump the only stat that matters: W's & L's.

And good QBS don't rely on their team to "pick up the slack." Good QBs go out and TAKE the game.

Anyways, I think you and I are done. You're obviously either a relative of JC or you have his race tied up in this somehow.

Good luck.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 2:26 AM | Report abuse

On the positive side, we coulda been out a bunch of high draft picks and had Jay Cutler as our QB ... 4 INTs vs GB.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 2:29 AM | Report abuse

A couple things...
I've been a Jason Campbell supporter...blindly HOPING we would become Doug Williams. With a 2nd consecutive year in the same system for him, I expected better. I'm not off the Campbell bandwagon yet, but I'm eyeing the next stop...and ditto for Zorn.
Someone PLEASE ask LaRon Landry to TACKLE and stop trying for the highlight hit! Since pee wee football players are taught to WRAP UP, not just hit. Those yards after contact the ballcarriers are getting once Landry bounces off them is ridiculous.
Let's hope the 'softer' opponents the next couple of weeks result in wins, build confidence and correct the mistakes the Giants exposed.

Posted by: krsuncskins | September 14, 2009 5:15 AM | Report abuse

Damn. I'm in Bangkok, Thailand and they speak better English here than what I just read in the quotes of this article. And most of these Thais have never even been to the U.S. and most didn't go to college. Makes you wonder.

Anyway that corner took Moss out of that play but he must have taken him out of the game too.

Posted by: hz9604 | September 14, 2009 5:15 AM | Report abuse

A head coach is a different animal from an O- or D- coordinator. Danny always assumes the latest successful O- or D- coordinator will be the next great head coach. Rarely true. Norv Turner - great O-coord but pretty much a bust at every head coaching job. Spagnolo -- who knows??

Head coach is a leadership, motivational, organizational guy and not necessarily an Xs and Os guy. That's why Zorn needs to leave the big blue balls to somebody else and start managing his asst, coords, and coaches.

Posted by: hz9604 | September 14, 2009 5:25 AM | Report abuse

A head coach is a different animal from an O- or D- coordinator. Danny always assumes the latest successful O- or D- coordinator will be the next great head coach. Rarely true. Norv Turner - great O-coord but pretty much a bust at every head coaching job. Spagnolo -- who knows??

Head coach is a leadership, motivational, organizational guy and not necessarily an Xs and Os guy. That's why Zorn needs to leave the big blue balls to somebody else and start managing his asst, coords, and coaches.

Posted by: hz9604 | September 14, 2009 5:25 AM


Zorn is what he is. I think he'd be a nice O-Coordinator somewhere, but he's not equipped to be the big boss.

The FO should know that.

If a HC is carrying out coordinator duties, it seldom ends well.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 14, 2009 7:00 AM | Report abuse

To quote Forrest Gump:

"Stupid is as stupid does."

Quote from Brian Orakpo:

"We didn't play smart."

Posted by: RedCherokee | September 14, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

The NYT's said it best yesterday. Zorn's dinky passing game and the 1970's rushing game don't work. Yesterday again proved it.

One down, 10 to go.

THE TALENT ISN'T THERE!!!!!( Including the coaching staff and front office.)

Posted by: pjente | September 14, 2009 7:07 AM | Report abuse

psps23,
I cannot believe you are defending Campbell. He played horribly. Some examples:

-Interception. Not a big deal but it was a ball that should never have been thrown.

-Fumble. This was a big deal because it could have been avoided if Campbell had simply stepped into the pocket.

-Audible. He sees the Giants creeping eight defenders to the line of scrimmage and he audibles to a... running play? Give me a break. Even Stevie Wonder could have seen that wasn't going to work.

-The long pass to Moss. He threw it inside when Moss was thinking outside. I don't know who was in the wrong here, but it certainly displayed a lack of communication between the two.

JC is not a work in progress anymore. He is what he is, and what he was yesterday wasn't much. Too many excuses have been made about the number of systems he has played in, but he has been in the same system for two years now, and he still has that deer-in-the-headlights look about him. What I saw yesterday was an indecisive QB who lacked confidence and possessed no pocket awareness.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

JC has no confidence, no poise, and lacks leadership. He had to be told to work on his leadership during the off season. You are either a leader or you are not.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 14, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

JC best quate yesterday, "what was I supposed to do throw into coverage" he has to be able to thread the needle, players are not going to get wide open in the NFL. He is afraid to make mistakes which leads to conservatism.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

I won't be satisfied until its the GIANTS' blogs that are saying the things I see on here. "It's early", "Stay the course", "The GIANTS were lucky" etc. BS. I want to kick their collective azz's and take names - every time. No excuses..

From the comments, its pretty obvious most of you get it however. So once again here's my take.

1- the #1 CB pick in the next draft.

2- FA kicker.

3- Second round OT, and fourth round OT.

GIBBS played this game like the run was paramount. It isn't. ZORN called this game like the running game and the passing game should be in balance. It should not. The rules regarding hitting the q-back and the receivers were designed to open up the passing game. That's why VINNIE picked those two receivers. Maybe the coaching hasn't caught up. I really don't know if SHANAHAN gets it or not. He's an old coach. He might not, but there are plenty of young guys who understand the "wildcat" and other offensive formations which are effective.

DEFENSE
Yesterday, I noted the GIANTS running the ball away from HAYNESWORTH between GRIFFIN and DANIELS. After the defense was gashed a few times, HORTON or FLETCHER were blitzed up inside and they stopped it. GIANTS began rolling MANNING to his right looking to pass deep. Having been burned deep earlier, the secondary would fall back to pass protect. The defensive end (JARMON I think) would suck up inside as he saw the running back go into the middle. MANNING would then throw underneath and the back would gain six-twelve yards at a time. The couple of times JACOBS tried it, there was a spy on him and it didn't work, so they started using the off back (can't remember his name). Very effective plays. Meanwhile the talking heads (AIKMAN) were gloating over the effective play calling by the offensive coordinator for the GIANTS, and it was very effective coaching. Didn't see that type of effective adaptation from the REDSKINS sideline.

OFFENSE
Yesterday, pass protection was good, run blocking not so, yet we continued to run. CAMPBELL was effective on quick releases to his primary receiver. Once COOLEY and ARE were covered up, ZORN should have switched and put in KELLY and THOMAS instead of MOSS and ARE. Except, that option looked decidedly unappealing when it was utilized. Did any of you see the routes they ran and/or the blocking they laid down? They appear a long way from being NFL caliber players. Which left ZORN with no way to go. Whose fault is the lack of development in the passing game? Not BUGES. He had his troops ready. CERRATO, ZORN, HIXON, CAMPBELL, KELLY, THOMAS, maybe all of the above. I don't know, but something's amiss. We better fix it or we're going nowhere. And PORTIS had heavy legs. He looked like he had lost a step or TWO.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

I work on Sundays,so I rarely get to watch Skins' games live as I record the games on my DVR and watch them Sunday night.You guys on RI are really the only way I keep up with how we're doing during the game,Im always checking the blog,keeping up.I try to take the criticisms I see on here during games with a grain of salt knowing that we as fans get very emotional during games because we want our team to win and we can sometimes over-exagerate how bad things look.So I tried to keep that in mind as I read all of the complaints about how bad Zorn's play calling was along with JC's performance.So I drove home listening to 980,folks still complaining about Zorn and Campbell.I got home and watched the game,no emotion involved because I already knew the outcome,I just wanted to see if you guys were over the top or if the calls for Zorns and Campbells heads were justified,and you know what,everybody who caaled them out yesterday were absolutely on the money.We as fans dont know all we think we know about football,but we can see when SHTI AINT WORKING!ZORN,IT AINT WORKING.

Posted by: smittdiddy | September 14, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

The stats are fun, but not much help. All the passer ratings, YPA, and completion % in the world doesn't trump the only stat that matters: W's & L's.

MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 2:26 AM |

Really. It's seems to trump the discussion when one talks about Cutler. The teams lack of production yesterday was a combination of conservative play calling, JC's lack of consistency in decision making, the defense's lack of ability to get off the field, players not knowing where to line up (two time outs burnt on wrong personnel grouping).

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Memo to Zorn, you can pass on FIRST down and sometimes run the hurry up offense to try to confuse the defense. Zorn is so predictable, the other team's defensive coordinator hardly has to prepare.

I think one reason for running on first down so often is to make sure Portis stays happy. But the NFL is a passing league.

Posted by: fearturtle44 | September 14, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Anyone near a window?? Take a look outside, beautiful...sun's up...some whispy clouds here and there...just a glorious day out there....

My last take on yesterday's game, cuz we all need to move on and look ahead to St. Louis:

1. Play calling HAS to, it HAS to improve. Throw the WR screen out the window, throw the football to KELLY and THOMAS, no more reverses, or Spurrier like plays, throw the ball. Throw the ball to set up the run. They need to BECOME A THROWING team. Thats what the NFL is..a throwing league.

2. Hall, Landry, Smoot all need to look at themselves in the mirror, and decide what they want to do. Either play football, or do something else. Don't take this the wrong way, but Landry is RAPIDLY approaching mediocre. Way too few int's, way too few big hits, way too MANY missed tackles. I don't recall this, but was Adrian Peterson on the board when the Redskins picked LL??

3. Blaming JC for this loss, seems at best mis-guided, at worst wrong. Sure he audibled to a poor play on that 3rd and 8, but for the majority of the day he was good. Does he deserve some blame, sure, he needs to step up in the pocket, he needs to have better pocket awareness, but to blame the whole game on him, is misdirected.

Thats all I've got......have at it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

smittdaddy:

You da' man, smittdaddy. Tell it like it is.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

17 = LOSER

Posted by: ridgely1 | September 14, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Yeah - pretty pathetic to have the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS as last year right from the git-go.

Zorn can't coarch & JC can't QB. Line can't block & backs can't run. Secondary can't tackle or defend.

And unfortunately the stuff that DID go right will be enough to get them by in spite of everything that's wrong...

I"m ok missing out on Cutler - pullin' that cry-baby shti last nite.. but Sanchez would have been nice, it turns out...

Snyderrato must GO!!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Greg:

Whaz' 'zup in BOSTON this a.m.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

everybody thought the FO was setting up campbell to fail but it looks more like zorn is doing it as well as campbell himself. only one game so lets go skins

Posted by: rls1041 | September 14, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

gl, its a nice day like I said, sun is out, gonna be in the 70's really nice weather. Sox swept the Ray's.

To be honest, I don't think its that much of a tweaking that this offense needs. Lose the horizontal passing COMPLETELY. ARE in the slot, looks like a winner, Heyer looked good, Fletch was a complete beast, Carter started off strong, so lets focus on the positives.

How hungover is cl today is what I want to know....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Reaction:

1. When did Portis turn into Fred Taylor? He looks old and slow.

2. Next year, unload Betts and Cartright - time for some speed and new blood on kick returns and 3rd down.

3. What's with Blache's defensive scheme, especially the cushion on the corners? The 10-15 yard hooks and ins were there all day for Eli. I thought CR and DH were supposed to be cover press experts?

4. If you're going with youth and speed receivers MK and DT, make an effort to get them that ball instead of check downs to El.

5. Zorn and Campbell are playing scared. Grow a pair and start getting mean.

6. I heard Orapko's name one time. Not good.

7. No sense of urgency for the D to get off the field on 3rd down.

Posted by: quinn3 | September 14, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

One thing I think that needs to improve is the first 15 scripted plays. Under JZ, the offense always start slowly. It happened again yesterday. I think they need to execute plays that get JC, Moss, Kelly, and Cooley in rhythm earlier. The running game will improve as CP gets his timing back (he barely played in preseason). However, I think it's best to pass to set up the run now because the passing game had the most reps in the preseason, and it'll take another 2-3 games before CP hits his stride.

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

twis, agreed, start the game in the no huddle, start JC in the shotgun, if Sherm/JZ can't see the forest for the tree's, can't see to it to make changes, then I'm not sure what needs to happen....

I just don't buy that they're not talented, I don't buy that for one second.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

beeps...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Here is my reaction.

The Oline looked terrible in the run game, 1 good run and then 2 yards and cloud of dust. Zorn needs to run to the right a bit its too predictable. We do need more young RB's but also need to invest in the lines.

Campbell looked, "okay" i mean the stats were okay, the DB's of NY were blanketing our WR's. When JC had the fumble, they showed a shot from behind JC, every WR we had running the routs was double covered.

I agree about the weird stuff with the D-schemes of Blanche. We are running what looks like a 1 LB/2 LB set every drive because we are using a down LB every play. It basically looks like we are in goal line formation every play. I don't mind the cushion the corners are giving too much, Rogers has shown to be elite over and over again, he shuts down the WR. But we need someone to step up opposite of him, and no one seems to know how to tackle.

Play calling was very predictable, conservative + a gimmick play here and there.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Last year I didn't post at all. Took a wait and see attitude. Well, I waited and I saw last year happening all over again. I wondered about training camp. Letting all the starters sit and expecting to play well once the season starts is just stupid. Offense - at least last year they did block for the run the first half. Not this game. Pass blocking - wait and see again. Defense took a step way back. Lots of missed tackles, wrong angles, stupid decisions and they looked like they were playing at about 1/2 the Giants intensity. After watching the Bears and Packers play last night, it just pointed up the Skins lack of intensity/effort, whatever on defense. Those two teams really went at it. Compared to them and the Giants the Skins look like the little sisters of the poor on both sides of the ball.

I like Zorn but - I think he's gone unless he buttons up and starts playing Martyball.

Posted by: oldskinsfan1 | September 14, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

How can the sophomore receivers, that everyone refers to as busts, make catches if Zorn essentially never calls their plays and Campbell can't or won't check down to second or third receivers? Brennan and Daniels are gone but when they did play, the defenses knew that every receiver was in play.

Is Zorn just a bad play caller who insists that a player conform to his system rather than mold the system to a player's talents? Or, is he doing what he thinks is possible for the limited talent he has at QB? Unfortunately, the answer to both questions seems to be.....Yes.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | September 14, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Ok; as a Skins fan, from the beginning of the season I chalked yesterday's game up as an L, but I mentioned some things that obviously weren't true, so, unlike DeAngelo Hall, I will NOT shy away from contact.

1) Corey Webster is FAR from average; in fact, in a game of multimillionaires yesterday, he was clearly the best player on the field. Chalk him up on a list of others (namely Terrance Newman) that have completely shut down Santana Moss.

2) I better not see another screen from the Skins O in the red zone; do they even practice red zone offense?

3) Need personnel to match the schemes they run; too many Gibbs holdovers on the OLine & defense. Why they draft "the best player on the board" and not for need has always been a problem. I mean, why bring the house if on 3&8 they drop the Cb's 10 yards off the ball, esp w/ Smoot and DHall, clearly not bump & run CB's (Springs, while not healthy, was clearly missed yesterday).

OK, gotta keep telling myself that the Skins were supposed to lose yesterday, but I'm worried it looked like preseason game #5 for them. Now if they can beat the teams they're supposed to (the Rams, Lions, Bucs, Broncos, Chiefs, Raiders, Panthers of the world), then this is not a cause for worry; but they tend to barely beat or lose against these teams.

No silver lining; if staying medium is the team's calling card, then they are sure headed for a medium (7-9 through 9-7) record based on yesterday's game.

Posted by: bernard_thompson | September 14, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Except for the two goal line stands in the 1st half (mostly thanks to Haynesworth) that kept two long Giant drives to 3 points, the defense was the major culprit early in the game when the Redskins fell into a 10-0 hole. D. Hall looked awful in both coverage and tackling (the Manningham TD on the WR screen was pathetic and was so noted by Troy Aikman). Except for an INT off a nice deflection by Landry, Hall was the weak link in coverage the entire day. To think the Skins cut Springs and signed D. Hall to a $55M deal boggles the mind. There was a reason he was jettisoned by both Oakland and Atlanta - he simply is not a very good CB and gets burned on a lot of plays.

Regarding Campbell, he simply can't make the mental errors of throwing a pass while over the line on a play where he can pick up positive yardage and needs to step up in the pocket. The interior protection provided by Dockery, Thomas, and Rabach was great and the strip was purely the result of JC holding the ball too long. That was a rookie mistake that he should have outgrown 3 years ago...and it has nothing to do with coaching.

As far as Mr. Zorn, playcalling was predictable and unimaginative. The use of the gadget play after Portis' 34-yard run on the Skins first drive was a big momentum killer. He also seemed desperate calling a fake FG at the end of the first half that had a 50/50 chance of working. That's a play you keep in the bag until you have a big game in Oct. or November. Zorn seemed overmatched by Coughlin all afternoon and his game management is still weak. Don't know whether it was JC's fault completely for taking the two TO's in the 3rd quarter, but the head coach should never have allowed it. It hurt at the end of the game when we couldn't stop the clock to at least get the ball back one more time.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 14, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

What is the excuse for JC this week. Let's see can't use the "different offensive system" excuse because he has had two offseasons and a year of games in it. Can't use the offensive line this time. What can we make up this week? Maybe the dog ate his playbook, or his GPS since he does not know when he is over the line of scrimmage. Just a thought: Hey Jason when the play gets down to one second in the third quarter on a third and long just take the penalty. Everytime you burn one of those we always need it at the end of the game. Nice audible on third and eight to an off tackle play, that must have been a big play at Auburn. If Zorn wants to keep his job he better get a QB that 1. knows where he is on the field. 2. gets the ball off and 3. does not burn time outs. I am sure there will be excuses why Campbell did not exrcute AGAIN! I am tired of hearing them, its very simple Jason, get the team in the end zone and stop making bone head decisions.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | September 14, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

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