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What's Next for Campbell, Skins?

New day, new thread...

The big question in the aftermath of yesterday's non-deal seems to center on what comes next for the Skins and Jason Campbell and whether this will damage his relationship with Jim Zorn.

Campbell spoke to Mike Wilbon as well as Jason Reid about the situation and his pockets are decidedly straight.

While Snyder and Cerrato signaled to everybody that they didn't think Campbell was good enough for them, you know what he did? "I still went and worked out," he said. "My teammates said, 'Jason, why are you here?' And I told them: 'I'm still the quarterback of this team until they get rid of me. You haven't seen the best of me. I'm not here for ownership. I won't miss days working out with you, and I won't miss time preparing for the season. Who knows? A trade may not work out.' "

Dan Steinbog ran into Carlos Rogers and Fred Davis at the Wizards-Cavs game last night. (I hear this LeBron guy is pretty good and Wilbon reminds me that he was an outstanding wide receiver in high school. Hmmmm, the Skins could use a big wide receiver ... ) Among Rogers' other comments on his former Auburn teammate:

"We've got more problems to worry about than just the quarterback."

Chronicler of all things party, Cheese also has an item headlined "LeBron, DeAngelo and LaVar." Really, do you need anything more than that to make you click?

By Cindy Boren  |  April 3, 2009; 7:31 AM ET
 
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Comments

AFTER ALL THAT STUFF YESTERDAY, JC STILL SAYS THE RIGHT THINGS, FOR NOW AT LEAST....BUT I WANNA KNOW WHAT HE REALLY FEELS INSIDE AFTER ALMOST BEING TRADED.

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

From the article:

"Concerned that Campbell could feel alienated, Redskins Coach Jim Zorn reached out to him yesterday, Campbell said. In a lengthy talk after Campbell worked out at Redskins Park, Zorn reaffirmed his commitment to Campbell and said they were "in it together," Campbell said. "

See - they didn't tell Zorn squat. I actually like that.

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

AFTER ALL THAT STUFF YESTERDAY, JC STILL SAYS THE RIGHT THINGS, FOR NOW AT LEAST....BUT I WANNA KNOW WHAT HE REALLY FEELS INSIDE AFTER ALMOST BEING TRADED.

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 8:08 AM |

Who cares what he really feels like, he will never say it publicly.

He will go out and play his but off this year, it is his contract year and he will either get paid here or somewhere else.

If he plays bad because he is upset, well then he will not get paid here or anywhere else.

Pro Football is a buisness the players aren't loyal, and the owners arn't loyal it goes both ways.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure he felt:

"Oh SJK! I'm gonna get traded!"

He has nothing to feel angry or insulted about. He has done nothing to warrant complete confidence.

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I hope JC takes us deep in the playoffs this year and then walks away from the Skins to a functional organization.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I hope JC takes us deep in the playoffs and then walks away from the Skins to a functional organization.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

huhuhuhu flounder said "goes both ways" huhuhuhuuhuh

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

He has nothing to feel angry or insulted about. He has done nothing to warrant complete confidence.

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:13 AM |

To further dik's point no one on this team has won anything, and none of them should be above getting the boot.

Football is not about keeping guys because the fans like them, it's about winning and these players have not won.

They have been hampered at times by the FO's, but when it comes down to it they have to play better on the field.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

I hope JC takes us deep in the playoffs this year and then walks away from the Skins to a functional organization.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:13 AM |

That's brilliant what a fan you are, he can't just walk away. The Skins will be able to keep him out of FA's if they want him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21 and DikShuttle

What the hell has Cutler won?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | April 3, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Um - why would you hope that?! You're a crazy person... [:-|

How about, he proves his detractors wrong and wins the superbowl? Now there's a good hope.

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

I'm so ready to be done with this.....Raji spiking for mj hopefully works in the Skins favor...Someone mentioned on the previous post about Andre Smith coming to town for a visit, sounds good.

happy friday all...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Interesting...


Reports Surface Of More Positive Drug Tests
Posted by Mike Florio on April 3, 2009, 7:08 a.m.

And there’s more.

According to NFLDraftBible.com (and not us), USC linebackers Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the Combine.

And there’s more.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 3, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Good morning and Hail!

I am so happy this worked out the way that it did. JC is our QB, and a pretty good one at that. I have been with the Skins for 30 years. I disagree with alot of things Synder has done, HOWEVER, it is under Dans regime that we got quality guys like JC, Cooley, Yoder, etc, etc. Synder has made some good decisions. I would like JC to know that us fans appreciate him and what he has done thus far. I believe he will be better for us this year as well. The voice of age and experience is certain Cerrato has got to be replaced.

I hope we stay the course, and draft our O-Line needs and get those tall receivers from last years draft into the mix. Young fellas, you need to step up to the plate and get it done. Now. Also, In all of our bright spots, I see one flaw....Portis. Someone should be eyeing running backs for next years draft. Portis just isn't cutting it for me. Part of that is again, the O-Line, BUT once that is fixed, we need to get a new running back.

Hail Forever!!

Posted by: httr20081 | April 3, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

The Post is really a mudslinger. The headline reads: Zorn and Campbell looking to patch up relationship, when JC and JZ are the ones who were close the whole time.

I still haven't seen ANYTHING besides this 'unnamed' source from which JLC started this whole riot, saying we were going after Cutler. Zorn and the FO still deny it. Maybe something official?

Either way, the Post is like a pig in mud about this whole thing, hoping it veers the team off course.

Guess what, JC is not a Cutler...he wont let it derail this team.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

JM,

NOTHING! I'm on record here not wanting Cutler.

I'm just saying Soup has to actually do somehting in the playoffs to expect not to be subject to trade attempts.

He seems to know it too, so let's see him get it together this year!

Hail Soup
Hail Skins!

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 3, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

curz, who else.....

wow, if thats true about cushing and matthews...thats crazy....

Raji cracks me up...how do you not know enough to walk away, knowing all that was at stake.....ufb...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I hope JC takes us deep in the playoffs and then walks away from the Skins to a functional organization.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:14 AM

So, another 'Skins hater. I hope he takes us deep into the playoff and re-signs and wins the Super Bowl.

But for him to take us anywhere, the jackasses running the team need to surround him with better players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Where is the article about Chris Wilson practicing at SAM?

"According to NFLDraftBible.com (and not us), USC linebackers Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the Combine."

Can't say I would be surprised if that turned out to be true. But we all know about rumors...I'll need more than nfldraftbible.com feeding me "info"

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Do they need to replace the little light on top of the camera, JLC can't figure out where to look, glad he is not our QB the way he locks in on a camera that is not on.

Posted by: Tappahannock | April 3, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Greg some kicker from Texas-El Paso. Like you said, hard to believe these guys are putting potential earnings in jeopardy...

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 3, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Where is the article about Chris Wilson practicing at SAM?

.............

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 8:31 AM

I heard it on Redskins Nation last night. They interviewed Chris Wilson yesterday and Wilson said the coaches are trying him out @ SAM and he thinks he can do it. He said he is a Football Player.

Watching the interview, you can tell dude is young, raw, and hungry. He said he weighs around 260 lbs. now and has alot more muscle mass than last year..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

OK DikShuttle. I thought you was pushing for Cutler as if he has done anything. My bad.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | April 3, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

@Rodgers....."We've got more problems to worry about than just the quarterback."

Yeah....like you learning how to catch the damn ball!

Posted by: jarresm | April 3, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

THIS COMMENT IS DIRECTED TO DANIEL SNYDER.
MR.Snyder please SELL the team. The Redskins will never win a Superbowl as long as you are the owner. History has proven that you can't buy a championship. If you say you are die-hard fan then go back to what brought us championships. "The HOGS" You win football games by dominating the line of scrimmage. What other franchise has won 3 different superbowls with 3 different QB's. Several times last year Campbell would try take a 5 step drop but, a defensive lineman would be on top of him by 3 steps. (Review the Steeler game,and both Giant games.)So, Mr.Snyder as a long time frustrated fan, I am begging you to sell the team or hire someone with football knowledge and for you to stay out of personel moves. The Redskin organization is fortunate to have a "class act" as our QB. Now, get him some protection and lets see what he can do!

Posted by: PDWIX613 | April 3, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21 and DikShuttle

What the hell has Cutler won?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | April 3, 2009 8:19 AM

I never said Cutler won anything and I didn't want him, what i'm saying is no one on the team is above getting traded or released.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

4th, good stuff....thanks for posting that....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Okay, who do you hate more:

Vinny C
Danny S
Larry M
George Bush

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

"He said he is a Football Player."

I love it 4th. You could tell the kid had athleticism when he came in on 3rd downs. Hopefully he can work hard and stay out on the field. This is exactly what the Skins need: young players already on the roster working hard to fill gaps. Guys who are "football players" and will do anything to get on the field.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

yoder,

Amen to that, everyone wants us to build through the draft but know one wants us to give these young guys a shot at playing.

The only way to get experience is to be on the field.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

So, up here in Boston, BillBeli is getting roasted for not getting more for Matt Cassell/Mike Vrabel. Which is like music to my ears.....

Are there any media outlets who are saying this was a good deal for the bears? I mean, when BLloyd runs the wrong route, and Cutler cusses him out...I mean, you can't make this stuff up...it writes itself...Seriously though, who is Cutler going to throw to?? I also saw that they signed Pace for 3 years / 15 million....wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21, TE i am a huge fan. But i hate what DS and Vinny have done.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I hope the WashPost doesn't make this season about JC17 being slighted.....

I'm ready to move on. Let JC go out and have fun and blow some steam off, and come back focused.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

"We've got more problems to worry about than just the quarterback."


Yes there are:

a. fixing an aging o-line
b. getting more depth and versatility at the linebacker spot
c. getting some speed on the field to play opposite Moss/Cooley
d. improving the punt return game
e. getting the triplets-Kelly/Thomas/Davis on the field


In order words, now that the Cutler nonsense has faded into a bad memory, the real pressings issues come back into view.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

(1) I am happy the Redskins did not get Jay Cutler. He is a good quarterback but aside from Peyton Manning, I don't know if there is another QB in the league worth what Chicago gave up. Da Bears pulled a Redskins like move and swept in with a ridiculous offer and scared the rest of the teams off. THANK YOU CHICAGO! The Redskins definately don't need to go another two years without 1st round draft picks.

Posted by: daniel_estepp | April 3, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

AFTER ALL THAT STUFF YESTERDAY, JC STILL SAYS THE RIGHT THINGS, FOR NOW AT LEAST....BUT I WANNA KNOW WHAT HE REALLY FEELS INSIDE AFTER ALMOST BEING TRADED.

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 8:08 AM |

Who cares what he really feels like, he will never say it publicly.

He will go out and play his but off this year, it is his contract year and he will either get paid here or somewhere else.

If he plays bad because he is upset, well then he will not get paid here or anywhere else.

Pro Football is a buisness the players aren't loyal, and the owners arn't loyal it goes both ways.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

YES, IT DOES MATTER WHAT HE FEELS. CUZ IF, AND I MEAN IF, HE DOES PLAY WELL AND HAS A GOOD, SOLID SEASON, ALL THE FANS INCLUDING YOU WILL WANT JC BACK. JC WILL THEN SAY NO THANKS TO "DUMB AND DUMBER" I.E. CERRATO AND SYNDER AND PLAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

(1) I am happy the Redskins did not get Jay Cutler. He is a good quarterback but aside from Peyton Manning, I don't know if there is another QB in the league worth what Chicago gave up. Da Bears pulled a Redskins like move and swept in with a ridiculous offer and scared the rest of the teams off. THANK YOU CHICAGO! The Redskins definately don't need to go another two years without 1st round draft picks.

Posted by: daniel_estepp | April 3, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Yes they are reporting as the deal of the century, the Bears get a Pro Bowl QB.

Problem is there O-Line is worse then ours, and there receivers suck.

If we made the trade it would have been totally different.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

what will be more frequently written on this blog:

1. That Albert H is the highest paid player in the league

or

2. That the Redskins looked into trading Campbell.

I'd say Al wins...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

With Cushing testing positive for steriods, he automatically has been bumped from the 1st round.

I say we still pick him up in the 3rd round.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

'...The only way to get experience is to be on the field...'


This is why the story about Chris Wilson working out at slb is so intriguing--if it's true.

If all he does this year is learn to stop the run from a stand up position and rush the passer, he'll give the team everything a drafted rookie would.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Okay, who do you hate more:

Vinny C
Danny S
Larry M
George Bush

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 8:41 AM

Alex, what's hate got to do with it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

YES, IT DOES MATTER WHAT HE FEELS. CUZ IF, AND I MEAN IF, HE DOES PLAY WELL AND HAS A GOOD, SOLID SEASON, ALL THE FANS INCLUDING YOU WILL WANT JC BACK. JC WILL THEN SAY NO THANKS TO "DUMB AND DUMBER" I.E. CERRATO AND SYNDER AND PLAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 8:48 AM |

No he won't if the Skins want him that bad the will Franchise him, if the league goes uncapped he is a RFA and the Skins can match any offer he gets.

JC is nopt stupid if he has a good season, and the Skins offer him a huge contract he will stay. Remember buisness not personel.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell said, "I'm not here for ownership."

Isn't that great? The starting quarterback of the Washington Redskins hates Danny and Vinny as much as we do.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | April 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

flound, yeah, thats what I thought, the Bronco's FLEECED the bears. The Bronc's now have 4 first round picks in the next 2 years....meanwhile the bears are possibly brining in Torry Holt because they have no wideouts to throw to.....wonder what they'd take for ARE?? He almost went to Chicago back when he came here.....I'd ship them ARE for a 3rd.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I'd trade JC for Lebron James in a second.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

a. fixing an aging o-line

Draft? Big "IF" scenario. I'm all aboard the A. Smith train, but I doubt he'll fall to 13.

b. getting more depth and versatility at the linebacker spot

Again, Draft...but where? Not a fan of the workout warrior Cushing at 13. Hopefully Chris Wilson can step in.

c. getting some speed on the field to play opposite Moss/Cooley

Have to cross your fingers and hope D. Thomas steps up

d. improving the punt return game

I have high hopes for Anthony Aldridge...he came with a ringing endorsement from Shanahan

e. getting the triplets-Kelly/Thomas/Davis on the field

If I see James Thrash lining up as a 3rd wideout one more time...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Pro Football is a buisness the players aren't loyal, and the owners arn't loyal it goes both ways.

Posted by: Flounder21

I don't get these comments. Everyone of us work at a business. You don't think your job will suffer if your boss was looking to replace you every other week. And your coworkers knew this.

Understand that he should stay professional (which he is) and still produce but to think that someone could ignore this and not let it affect them is just ignorant.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

"flound, yeah, thats what I thought, the Bronco's FLEECED the bears. The Bronc's now have 4 first round picks in the next 2 years....meanwhile the bears are possibly brining in Torry Holt because they have no wideouts to throw to.....wonder what they'd take for ARE?? He almost went to Chicago back when he came here.....I'd ship them ARE for a 3rd.

Posted by: BeantownGreg "

Chicago = the new Washington?


I heard one of the Bears' players yesterday on a phone interview, he said "Chicago isn't known for big spending like...say....like the Washington Redskins, but..."


I was like "Doh!"

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I'd say Al wins...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:50 AM

Al has such a commanding lead that Campbell can never catch him given that Snyder will probably trade him for a ham sandwich.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Okay, who do you hate more:

Vinny C
Danny S
Larry M
George Bush

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 8:41 AM


To hate one of these guys would mean I actually had to care about them.

I could basically care less about any of them, I got much more important things to worry about.

Like who the Skins will draft with the first pick. If these rumors are true about the drug test then I see all the T's being gone by the time we pick.

Good news is Sanchez and Stafford will be gone as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

We should have signed Cutler. JC is a nice guy but he fell apart late in the season. The OL didn't help, but he doesn't read coverage fast enough. He is not a playmaker!Time will tell, another last place season. Dallas, Giants, Eagles improve and we go down. Wait & See!! A Frustrated SKINS FAN. Bring back Sonny J!

Posted by: smarshall1 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

I wish Snyder would trade JC for a ham sandwich and give that ham sandwich to me.


Redskins losing JC = doesn't personally affect me, although it wouldn't be good. It doesn't have a direct impact on my happiness.

Ham sandwich = huge impact on me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

someone told me this morning, that Brian Urlacher had a 'less than ringing' endorsement of this trade, something like, "thats a lot of picks to give up for one guy, I hope Cutler is worth it"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

meanwhile the bears are possibly brining in Torry Holt because they have no wideouts to throw to...

Posted by: BeantownGreg

How quickly we forget. Brandon Lloyd? What do you think he is, chopped herring?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

'...With Cushing testing positive for steriods...'

Doesn't he have a 'reality' show with the NFL Network where they follow him as he prepares for the draft?

If this story is true, I wonder if we'll get to see his reactions to it.

I'm different than most.

I'd still draft the guy high--the 'riod thing in football is expected, and half the league wouldn't be on the field if the NFL was as serious as the Olympic people are about testing for it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Good news is Sanchez and Stafford will be gone as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM |

Don't forget Snyder's Plan B: trade up to pick Sanchez.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

alex35332,

George F Bush!! Dan/Vinny only mess up football games. Bush cost the lost of lives on a lie.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | April 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Urlacher was mad they sen 2 #1s, a 3rd, AND Kyle Orton, their starting QB that respected.

Supposedly, Orton had this bum ankle that he should have not been playing with and all the players in the locker room gained more repect for him playing through the pain.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

The bears are thinking long term,guys.

Cutler is what, 25?

They'll find some dudes to catch the rock before the guy retires, trust me.

They have Hester, a good kicker in Gould, Forte, a good young tight end, an excellent defense, and are the kind of team that will use what picks it still have to draft for need on the o-line.

Remember: they made it to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman dragging them down--they ain't all that bad.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I don't get these comments. Everyone of us work at a business. You don't think your job will suffer if your boss was looking to replace you every other week. And your coworkers knew this.

Understand that he should stay professional (which he is) and still produce but to think that someone could ignore this and not let it affect them is just ignorant.

Posted by: NFeKPo | April 3, 2009 8:55 AM |

Your comparing normal job situations with the NFL, thats ignorant.

The players jump teams for money all the time, that is the nature of the game.

The owners cut players once there usefulness has faded, or they trade them if they think they can get a better player.

I was unaware that the Skins were trying to get rid of JC17 everyweek, is that in print somewhere.

I'm positive that most of this Cutler talk to the Skins, was pushed by the Broncos to get the deal they got.

Football players know the nature of the buisness there in, the rest of us working stiffs are in an entirely different situation.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Stay away from USC players. There are exceptions of course, but they are great system players. Until PETE CARRILL becomes REDSKINS head coach I say, "Stay away."

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 3, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Good news is Sanchez and Stafford will be gone as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM |

Don't forget Snyder's Plan B: trade up to pick Sanchez.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:01 AM |

He doesn't have the picks to do it, the Broncos will trade up to 3 to get what ever QB the Lions don't take.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Hey, I would too.

But now he is too risky to draft @ #13. I think he tested positive early on in his USC days as well.

He may be the nest Tony Madariach (sp?)

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

George F Bush!! Dan/Vinny only mess up football games. Bush cost the lost of lives on a lie.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | April 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Ah, but we can in theory put Bush in jail for what he did.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

No he won't if the Skins want him that bad the will Franchise him, if the league goes uncapped he is a RFA and the Skins can match any offer he gets.

JC is nopt stupid if he has a good season, and the Skins offer him a huge contract he will stay. Remember buisness not personel.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse
IF THERE IS NOT A NEW C.B.A NEXT YEAR, IT WILL BE AN UNCAPPED YEAR WITH NO RFA, NO FRANCHISE TAGS, AND YES WE CAN PAY HIM ALL THE MONEY BUT SO CAN OTHER TEAMS. YES SOMETIMES IT IS PERSONAL, I.E. JAY CUTLER?????

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

If Matthews and Cushing drop that is good for us...I have a feeling that the Skins were throwing the same package at the Broncos and Cutler wanted to go to the Bears.

NFEK-Pro about Flounders comment, NFL is a business and they need to deal with what the owner wants and chooses to do, he is the owner, YOUR BOSS is always looking for upgrades as well, youjust dont know about it on RI. Business is about getting the best talent to utilize and grow your product...anyone who doesnt think they can be replaced or that Ownership has thought of someone better is is LOST.

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

They had Percy Harvin testing positive as well. To me, the MJ positive doesn't make them fall as far as the steroids. Its an issue but if they stop taking it their performance won't go down like it might with steroids.

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

He doesn't have the picks to do it, the Broncos will trade up to 3 to get what ever QB the Lions don't take.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:08 AM

Broncos are going with Orton this year. They're not looking for a QB in this draft, and they have too many needs on defense to waste picks. Someone else may move up, but not Denver.

You underestimate Snyder's determination. He will trade Campbell for something and will trade picks from next year's draft if he can get Sanchez. Sanchez is too hot to let Snyder cool down.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Ah, but we can in theory put Bush in jail for what he did.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 9:11 AM

What theory did you have in mind, Alex?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

te, I can't see that happening, they're not going to draft Sanchez...just ain't happening.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Broncos are going with Orton this year. They're not looking for a QB in this draft, and they have too many needs on defense to waste picks. Someone else may move up, but not Denver.

TE, where are you getting this from, or is it just your humble opinion?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Draft Sanchez as PLAN B?

Next year's quarterbacks and other options:

Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Brady Quinn
Colt McCoy
Colt Brennan

I'd rather let Campbell earn his contract.

And if he doesn't, the team has picks to use to get the next new savior.

Aviod Sanchez--think about next year this year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

te, I can't see that happening, they're not going to draft Sanchez...just ain't happening.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:23 AM

Moving up for Sanchez is Plan B. It's next in line after Plan A failed yesterday.

I'm not predicting that they will pull it off, in fact I think it's a long shot. But I am predicting that they will try as hard as they can to make it happen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Stay away from USC players. There are exceptions of course, but they are great system players. Until PETE CARRILL becomes REDSKINS head coach I say, "Stay away."

Posted by: glawrence007

Agreed 100%. Especially at #13.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 3, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Wilbon's article alone is enough reason why we shouldn't have even TRIED to get Cutler.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

TE, where are you getting this from, or is it just your humble opinion?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 9:24 AM

No, I don't have this much insight (if I have any at all). This came off ESPN last night @ 6:00. I think it was Trent Dilfer and Mark Schlereth. They felt that McDaniel believes that Orton can run his offense.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

ryp, wilbon is such a liar/fraud, that anything he writes, the very paper which the words are printed are suitable only as cat litter....

te, they don't have the picks to move up....so thats why I don't see it happening...and if they do move up, that means starting ALL OVER AGAIN, with a new qb...why...how much sense does that make..

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

dhaze1

'...Broncos are going with Orton this year...'

I bet Pat Bowlen is wondering why he fired M Shanahan now.

He adds a thirty-something year old coach just because he's a Belichek clone: well, so are Charlie Weis, Mangini, and Romeo Crennel.

And we've seen how they've worked out as HCs.

What's funny about this to me is Champ Bailey wanted out of DC because of the wack FO doodlings. And he winds up now in a place that might be like the place he wanted to leave in th first place.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

It also seems like the Bears way overpaid for Orlando Pace!

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Aviod Sanchez--think about next year this year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

You do realize this is the Redskins we're talking about, right?

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 3, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

If the tackles are gone by 13, and we avoid the roid mongers, who do we take a defensive lineman? That would be fine, then get a LB in the 3rd.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

IF THERE IS NOT A NEW C.B.A NEXT YEAR, IT WILL BE AN UNCAPPED YEAR WITH NO RFA, NO FRANCHISE TAGS, AND YES WE CAN PAY HIM ALL THE MONEY BUT SO CAN OTHER TEAMS. YES SOMETIMES IT IS PERSONAL, I.E. JAY CUTLER?????

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 9:13 AM |

You have not read the rules of the uncapped year, which means you should not be posting about it.

If the league goes uncapped players will need 6 years in the league to become FA's not 4, so actually JC17 will still be ours, he won't even be a RFA.

The same goes for CR's if the league goes uncapped.

The uncapped year doesn't stop FA's, there will still be RFA's and URFA's.

Please read upo on a subjest before posting like you know what your talking about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Kyle Oton is a starting QB in this league. And they have Chris Simms. They have plenty QBs.

No way they are drafting a Qb in the 1st 3 rounds.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

fed, I'd hate it, and I'm holding out hope for a trade back in the first, but if all the T's are gone, then I think you have to look at DE/DL. Robert Ayers, seems to be gaining some momentum. I don't think he'd fall that far, but Raji, if he's still there do you take him??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Bean, If we had Raji and AH inside, plus Griffen, I don't know how anyone runs on us. Plus the push up the middle would be ridiculous. Hopefully Wilson could change to LB. D fence may be our saving grace this year.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Okay, who do you hate more:

Vinny C
Danny S
Larry M
George Bush

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 8:41 AM

Well both George Bush's are pure evil, so I hate them the most.

I rarely ever have to deal with looking at Danny or Vinny, except after a new aquisition and you can't fault them for trying; you can fault them for being dumb.

But I do have to look at Larry M fairly alot and his voice makes me nauseous. I would say I hate him second most. I saw him once at Gordon Biersch in Tysons and I was suprised that I wanted to physically strangle him from across the room.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | April 3, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Q. What are the categories of free agents?
A. Players are either “restricted” or “unrestricted” free agents. Within these categories there are also “transition” and “franchise” players.

Q. What determines an unrestricted free agent in the uncapped year?
A. In capped seasons (2008 and 2009), a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent if he has four or more accrued seasons. In the uncapped year (2010), a player whose contract has expired becomes an unrestricted free agent only if he has six or more accrued seasons. An unrestricted free agent is free to sign with any club with no compensation owed to his old club.

Q. What determines whether a player is a restricted free agent in the “Final League Year?”
A.In capped seasons (2008 and 2009), a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three accrued seasons. In the uncapped year (2010), a player whose contract expires becomes a restricted free agent if he has three, four or five accrued seasons. The rights of restricted free agents remain unchanged in the uncapped year.

Q. What constitutes an “accrued season?”
A. Six or more regular-season games on a club’s active/inactive, reserved-injured or physically unable to perform lists.

Q. In addition to the right to designate a Franchise (or Transition) Player each capped year, can clubs designate additional players in the uncapped year?
A. Yes, one additional player can be tagged. In capped years (2008 and 2009), a club may designate a Franchise Player or a Transition Player. In the uncapped year (2010), a club may designate one additional Transition Player. A Transition Player must be offered a minimum of the average of the top 10 salaries of the prior season at the player’s position or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, whichever is greater. A Transition Player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match within seven days an offer sheet given to the player by another club after his contract expires. If the club matches, it retains the player. If it does not match, it receives no compensation.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Options, such as Raji/Ayers/A.Smith are why keeping your first round pick is SO FRIGGIN IMPORTANT.

Agreed, I think if all other avenues are exhausted, and Raji is there...gosh, I don't know how you pass him up...the mjane issue is troubling, but he's a very talented player....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

P.S. JLa is a fatty lumpkins.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | April 3, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I can't help but feel a bit alarmed that the Broncos wanted Orton over Campbell. Does that show that the rest of the league thinks Jason is average at best. Didn't we have a better first round pick to offer then Chicago too? I am glad we didn't sacrifice the picks the Bears did but it's just something to think about.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Bean, If we had Raji and AH inside, plus Griffen, I don't know how anyone runs on us. Plus the push up the middle would be ridiculous. Hopefully Wilson could change to LB. D fence may be our saving grace this year.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:45 AM |

Fred/Bean

I think if you get Raji you have some possibility of playing AH or raji at DE as well as DT.

AH made alot of plays from the DE spot last year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I can't help but feel a bit alarmed that the Broncos wanted Orton over Campbell. Does that show that the rest of the league thinks Jason is average at best.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:50 AM

Yes.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I can't help but feel a bit alarmed that the Broncos wanted Orton over Campbell. Does that show that the rest of the league thinks Jason is average at best. Didn't we have a better first round pick to offer then Chicago too? I am glad we didn't sacrifice the picks the Bears did but it's just something to think about.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:50 AM |

Fed,

Yes are pick was better, that is why I'm not to sure we made that big of a play for him.

Orton is not that good, he was thrown in to get rid of him, the Broncos will still be looking to draft QB.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

IF all the OT's are gone

IF they think Chris Wilson can hold down the SAM spot

IF they can't trade down...

Do you look at Maualuga to replace Fletcher in a year or 2?

Keep in mind Fletcher probably has 1 or 2 years left(of the same quality play he's been at) and that he might be able to fetch something of value in a trade if he has a pro bowl year next year. Just I thought...I love Fletch, but good teams get something in return when their best players hit the decline.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Who are we kidding, Danny won't get Raji if available. That would make too much sense. It's not a glamour pick so there goes that idea. To have such an upgrade at defensive line would be fantastic, may even give the offence the short field more often, which the D will have to do this year for our Offence to put up points.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

If Raji is there Skins have to take him. Take OL in the 3rd and LB/CB/OL the rest of the way.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 3, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Read Wilbon, only large significant difference between the two, Cutler and Campbell, was sacks.

I am not a football professional, but then again neither are the wonder twins Vinny or Danny, but this would tell me that I need to bolster my offensive line?

They could be trying to create the second coming of the over the hill gang on the line?

Posted by: tjakonlyhopetocontain | April 3, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

fed, they're going with orton this year, and probably drafting a qb who can hold a clipboard while orton plays out his deal, then take over the reins next year....my 2 cents anyway...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

From SI:
"the Redskins were closing in on a three-way deal Thursday afternoon that involved Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn going to Denver. However, the deal involving the Browns unraveled, prompting Chicago to jump back in and offer a less-complicated deal..."

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Draft Sanchez as PLAN B?

Next year's quarterbacks and other options:

Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Brady Quinn
Colt McCoy
Colt Brennan

I'd rather let Campbell earn his contract.

And if he doesn't, the team has picks to use to get the next new savior.

Aviod Sanchez--think about next year this year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 9:25 AM

Moe,

They know this at Redskins Park. They refer to waiting as "Plan C."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I am so relieved we didn't ship 2 1st rounders to Denver. God that made me sleep better knowing that. Step 2 now is to get the best player, at one of our positions of need. That is where I get scared again. Trading back in the first would be ideal, but at what price? So many questions, too few answers.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 3, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

They know this at Redskins Park. They refer to waiting as "Plan C."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

They refer to their team building strategy as "Plan 9 From Outer Space"

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 3, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Okay, who do you hate more:

Vinny C
Danny S
Larry M
George Bush

Posted by: alex35332 | April 3, 2009 8:41 AM

Alex, what's hate got to do with it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

TE, did you just paraphrase Ike's better half? outstanding

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 3, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

It's Day Two of... The Story That Never Was!

JC will be fine. He said he realizes this is a business; if he's being straight with that comment, than he has no reason to feel awkward.

Moreover, there was no shortage of people questioning JC's ability and leadership BEFORE this Cutler non-story broke. So how is it any different now?

It isn't.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | April 3, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Yeah. It makes sense getting a D Tackle in the 1st round when we are already a solid 4 deep in the rotation........

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

The Skins are still going to try to get two first day picks, neither of which will be QB (see Carlos Rogers quote above). Jason Campbell sounds willing to say "bygones" and play out his final year like its a contract year, which it will be, and for which the Skins (now more than ever) will have to pay dearly to renew.

Sanchez talk is moronic ... almost moronic enough to be probable. Skins need to (and might ... if the QB-minded HC and the FO guy with any valid football experience, Marocco Brown have ANY sway) get an offensive tackle first, even if its Booby McBoobs. I don't understand why all these mockeries of drafts have dropped so many OTs so far since they began their mockery. QB performance is directly tied to the offensive line. Even a diminuitive rich weasel must realize that by now.

Posted by: dcsween | April 3, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't knock Orton too much. He's a good game manager and has a winning record......

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I can't help but feel a bit alarmed that the Broncos wanted Orton over Campbell. Does that show that the rest of the league thinks Jason is average at best. Didn't we have a better first round pick to offer then Chicago too? I am glad we didn't sacrifice the picks the Bears did but it's just something to think about.

Posted by: FedorEm

Seriously? Does anyone view Orton as anything except average?

Also, McDaniels appears to be young and stupid - so who in heck would trust his judgement on a QB - or anything for that matter? Bowlen also handled the situation horribly.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah. It makes sense getting a D Tackle in the 1st round when we are already a solid 4 deep in the rotation........

Posted by: 4thFloor "


yeah those poor New York Giants when they had outstanding depth (note : NOT "solid depth") on the DL. Poor guys went and won the Superbowl.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't knock Orton too much. He's a good game manager and has a winning record......

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:07 AM |

He also had the defense to be able to manage games, in Denver he will be forced like Cutler was to try to score points.

Denvers defense sucks which is why Cutler had to take so many chances.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Next year's quarterbacks and other options:

Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Colt McCoy

Belichick will grab Tebow and groom him to take over after Brady and look like a genius again. I saw him at few gator games this year. Wonder why?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | April 3, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

A decent amount of Bears fans were okay with Orton until this. I don't think Orton is a joke. Dude is, to me, on the same level as Jason Campbell. I think we saw this by Denver deciding to take Orton and two firsts over Campbell and two firsts.

Denver made off like Madoff on this one, definitely.

and Raji + Fat Albert = yes please


Raji or one of the top 4 OT's

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Bowlen also handled the situation horribly.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:08 AM |

What? I would say he handled it brilliantly. He got rid of a pain-in-the-asz prima donna and, in exchange got a reasonable QB plus two first round picks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

He has nothing to feel angry or insulted about. He has done nothing to warrant complete confidence. Posted by: DikShuttle

thank you dik! and if you don't want to believe it listen to the rest of the league collectively saying "jason campbell is worth less than a 4th round draft pick".

Posted by: dealer1 | April 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

4th, Raji is arguably a top 5 talent, I'd take him over Gholston/Monty any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Having 2 potentially dominant DT's makes the DE's that much better.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

the redskins dont need a gunslinger like cutler. if this team is going to do anything next year, it will be because of defense and running. 24 carries for portis and 14 for betts. it's not pretty but it works.

Posted by: jnicol2 | April 3, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Also, McDaniels appears to be young and stupid - so who in heck would trust his judgement on a QB - or anything for that matter? Bowlen also handled the situation horribly.


Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:08 AM |

McDaniels helped develop Brady and Cassell, he knows QB's so I would trust him to know who would fit better into his system.

Just because he thought JC17 would not be good for his system, doesn't mean he thinks JC17 is a bad QB.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

THANK YOU CHICAGO!! Thank you for swooping down and pulling a Redskins-like move and Sweeping the Broncos off their feet by giving them waaay more then a cry baby strong armed quarterback is worth. Good luck winning anything with Cutler when you have Brandon Lloyd and Devin Hester running routes. I would say catching passes but that would be a little optimistic for those two. Kris Wilson play linebacker could work. I have liked this guy since I first saw him. He is athletic. I think he can be effective against the run and still put his hand in the dirt on passing downs. Each year he has played a little more and little more. Definately can give us atleast what we've been getting...(nothing). So if thats what the plan is with Andre Smith coming to us at 13, I say go for it. If not then I'm not opposed to Cushing, or if not taken by some miracle Orakpo. (Whom I think Seattle will take now that Peterson is gone). Anyway, back to Campbell. Glad our Quarterback has shown to be as classy as any player in the league and hope he goes out and earns a big contract by performing in his second year in the West Coast scheme. LETS GO SKINS!!

Posted by: daniel_estepp | April 3, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

What? I would say he handled it brilliantly. He got rid of a pain-in-the-asz prima donna and, in exchange got a reasonable QB plus two first round picks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

TE, I meant Bowlen handled it badly because the trade never should have happened in the first place. Bowlen should have set Cutler and McDaniels down and ordered them to make things right. Also, IMO, Bowlen should have had a conversation with young McDaniels about the proper way to deal with players - especially in the media.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

ok. For a long time I thought, Snyder is just Steinbrenner. Steinbrenner was hated and didnt win. Then Steinbrenner was hated and won. I'll take it!

But this is Campbell stuff is bizarro. I dont think any player is ever untouchable and there is no indignity in shopping a player around. BUT I DO WANT THE SHOPPING AROUND TO MAKE SENSE.

Snyder is getting worse, not better. Joe Gibbs and Greg Williams brought in some good hardworking football players. When they are gone I am afraid things will sink. Hope I am wrong.

I will still watch next year, but hope Snyder et al will open their ears to the idea they might not be making the best decisions. Not optimistic.


Posted by: rsmskc | April 3, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell = Pure class.
We don't deserve him.

Posted by: TheDuck1 | April 3, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone outside of Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerratto actually believe they know what they are doing? They are like delusional drug addicts and have turned this franchise into a laughingstock. There is no reasonable person that could still be an apologist for these clowns. Wilbon lately has been weak but his article today is spot on. F this FO. Hopefully Campbell wins up the Super Bowl this year and bounces to greener pastures.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | April 3, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

rsmskc,
I couldn't agree more. This is all very depressing. I have gave everyone at Redskins Park the benefit of the doubt for far, far too long. This has got to get better some way some how.

Posted by: TheDuck1 | April 3, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

TE, I meant Bowlen handled it badly because the trade never should have happened in the first place. Bowlen should have set Cutler and McDaniels down and ordered them to make things right. Also, IMO, Bowlen should have had a conversation with young McDaniels about the proper way to deal with players - especially in the media.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:20 AM

Disagree! McDaniels didn't want Cutler. Denver is better off without Cutler, and with the picks that they got. This is a good outcome.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Ok, my stupis a$$ started to read the Wilbon article (1st in 2 years), but I had to stop because of this statement:

"And it didn't. The Chicago Bears dealt draft picks and starter Kyle Orton to Denver for Cutler. They're ecstatic in Chicago, as they should be. And the Redskins have a quarterback, if the people who run the franchise ever exhibit the common sense and patience to stop changing players and coaches the way we change underwear.
"

Stop. Out of the 3 QBs (Cutty, JC, Orton); Orton has the best record out of all 3 of them, but yet the Bears made the right move? In fact, Orton is the ONLY one out of the 3 with a winning record. Chicago may one of the only teams that have gone thourgh more QBs then we did.

Love how Wilbon is protecting 'his' team. Just like I back Desmond Howard.

The other thing I remembered when I started reading, he is in the tank for the players, irregardless of the league....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Now, more that ever, I hope JC17 proves those who think he can not lead or win with this team wrong. Plus, 2 first, a third and Campbell for Jeff George Jr. and a fifth would have been beyond stupid. The only young QB in the league I would have made that deal for is Matt Ryan, who will be 10x the QB Cutler will ever be.

Posted by: virtueandvice | April 3, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Now if Zorn really believes in Campbell he needs to open the game plan up to play to Campbell's strengths. He needs to have more designed rollouts and bootlegs. He needs put his smaller receivers in motion so opposing teams can't play bump and run coverage. He needs to put in more two tightend packages where he has as many potential receivers as he can get who are at the starting line of the foot race instead of five yards in the backfield. He needs to beg and plead for an offensive lineman or two in the draft that can contribute. He needs a legit 2nd receiver - perhaps one of the veterans still on the market like Toomer.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | April 3, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Bean - just because the Post is a rag doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point.

I USUALLY agree with Wilbon's points... he's been a good journalist long before JLC came along and the fame of PTI got to his head.

I'd rather have a good character guy who grades a B than a possible risk at a B+.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

jesus christ what a bunch of melodramatic whiny *******


oh noz they thought of trading a slightly above average QB who is going into his contract season


cry me a river and chalk it up to being a professional athlete. My god!

They never even publicly said they wanted Cutler or didn't want JC. They never confirmed or denied any trade rumors.

and look at what we gave up to move up and get him. And look at the average seasons he's had here and look at him getting yet another opportunity. What after next year when we see the same thing? "Oh he needs three years in the same sytem!"

Come on people, get over it.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully Campbell wins up the Super Bowl this year and bounces to greener pastures.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | April 3, 2009 10:22 AM

Here's another of the Redskins haters pretending to be a fan!

Dude, I hope Campbell wins the Super Bowl this year and then gets a fat contract and wins it again next year -- for the Redskins. I hope Snyder learns and gets better.

You are locked into some "cut my nose to spite my face" mentality. You are too stupid to realize that there is no way that Snyder can suffer defeats without us fans suffering.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

4th, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????? did you read????????????????? wilbon!!!!? :) never dude! never! he has nothing absolutely nothing to offer. don't even click on his article/name/interviews whatever...he sucks! and if i was a better writer or had more time i would elaborate...

Posted by: dealer1 | April 3, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

ugh...this is just too much to take. Every year the same old thing. I bleed burgundy and gold, but I'm at the point where I think I've just about bled out. I'm tired of being the embarrassment of the league each year. Cerrato needs to get his lips off of Mr. Snyder's back side and we need a real GM. Do these guys have a clue about how to put a football team together. After all this time developing JC we're ready to throw him to the curb? How about Zorn? Completely disrespect your coach and go around him to try and get some guy he doesn't even want? I like Zorn, I like Campbell and for god sakes, I'd like some stability and common sense. Is that too much to ask? Oh and one more thing, I like the draft too! Can we for once go in with a full compliment of picks and actually use them to build a team? Develop our own stars? ugh... This may be Danny's toy, but he's doing in on our dime while ripping out our hearts. For those of you who don't live in the area anymore like myself, I'm tired of being laughed at for being a Redskin fan. I'd like to pump my chest out again and be proud of our team, as opposed to having to be embarrassed by the yearly follies that ensue each spring. I'm doing this in Philly of all places too. So no one question my pride and allegiance.

So at the end of the day we now have a head coach and a starting QB who now have to go into this year questioning ownerships commitment to them. God I hope the two of them bond like no other and pull off an incredible year. Not only for all of our sake, but to stick one to the front office.

Posted by: apbaintl | April 3, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

He also had the defense to be able to manage games, in Denver he will be forced like Cutler was to try to score points.

Denvers defense sucks which is why Cutler had to take so many chances.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:10 AM

Now they have 4 #1s over the next 2 years. I say atleast 3 out of 4 will be defensive players......

Lisa - Bowlen came out like a bandit. He got rid of Shanahan and his pet for value and a starting caliber QB....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Love how Wilbon is protecting 'his' team. Just like I back Desmond Howard.

The other thing I remembered when I started reading, he is in the tank for the players, irregardless of the league....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:24 AM

Still, even though they paid through the nose for the guy, I would be willing to bet that most bears fans are pretty excited right about now. If they are upset about what they gave up for him, that will probably go away come pre-season.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Wilbon is right. The bears helped the Skins. As for J.C., he wasn't the cause of all those sacks and hurries last year. His line was old, tired, and injured. This year they're all in the system for a second year, the 3 receivers are no longer rookies, watch the improvement. Now Vinny, draft one of the big 4 tackles or the big 2 defensive ends/OLB with the 13th pick or trade down. Re-sign Marcus to the minimum and we'll be fine.

Posted by: tuliva | April 3, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I know Deal. I know.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

You are locked into some "cut my nose to spite my face" mentality. You are too stupid to realize that there is no way that Snyder can suffer defeats without us fans suffering.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:28 AM

Yeah we haven't been suffering already. Shut up jerkoff.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | April 3, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"Disagree! McDaniels didn't want Cutler. Denver is better off without Cutler, and with the picks that they got. This is a good outcome.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

I'm putting my vote in with Lisa.

This trade was bad for both parties. Denver lost a young franchise pro-bowl QB that would have lead a dominant attack for years to come with young receivers he was familiar and comfortable with. Cutler, Marshall, and Royal had the makings of a west coast Manning, Harrison, and Wayne. Good luck to them making do with Kyle Orton, Shanahan's running scheme gone (and the McDaniels' weak running game in), and a horribly built defense. Those draft picks look nice and shiny right now, but won't look so hot when they realize Orton isn't half the QB Cutler was for them.

Chicago traded away a majority of the assets they had in order to build around Cutler, and instead are stuck with a possibly great QB in a very unfavorable position. Cutler with a lesser coordinator, lesser and unfamiliar receivers, and a team with little ability to build around him due to what they gave up will not be as good in Chicago as he was in Denver.

In all, this was a lose-lose situation. Both teams will end up regretting it (although if Cutler struggles in Chicago, Denver will probably believe that they made the right decision, even though deep down they know if that core group of offensive assets - Cutler, Shanahan, Marshall, Royal - had stuck together, they would have been dominant for a very long time).

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Huh? JC not responsible for sacks?

Did you know they tell him that a sack isn't always a bad thing vs. just throwing it w/o being sure?

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

So that idiotic Cowherd is reporting that Bus Cook was in a rush to get a trade for Cutler because he knows how unstable Cutler is (and a loose wire)and could not take the chance of waiting.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 3, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

We should have signed Cutler. JC is a nice guy but he fell apart late in the season. The OL didn't help, but he doesn't read coverage fast enough. He is not a playmaker!Time will tell, another last place season. Dallas, Giants, Eagles improve and we go down. Wait & See!! A Frustrated SKINS FAN. Bring back Sonny J!

Posted by: smarshall1 | April 3, 2009 8:58 AM


Hey Buddy, not trying to be rude or anything but Cutler was not a free agent. Therefore there was no ability to sign him. It was a trade that would've required multiple high draft picks. The opportunity cost was too high, and the statistical difference between him and Jason wasn't great enough to warrant paying the opportunity cost. That is precisely the crux of this debate.

Posted by: kingtutts | April 3, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

"Out of the 3 QBs (Cutty, JC, Orton); Orton has the best record out of all 3 of them, but yet the Bears made the right move?"

Don't forget, Rex Grossman has a better record than all 3 of those guys and has been to a Super Bowl. Somebody get Jerry Angelo on the phone. These games are won and lost by one man on the field, and Grossman knows how to win. That's a franchise QB if I've ever seen one.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Stop. Out of the 3 QBs (Cutty, JC, Orton); Orton has the best record out of all 3 of them, but yet the Bears made the right move? In fact, Orton is the ONLY one out of the 3 with a winning record. Chicago may one of the only teams that have gone thourgh more QBs then we did.

Love how Wilbon is protecting 'his' team. Just like I back Desmond Howard.

The other thing I remembered when I started reading, he is in the tank for the players, irregardless of the league....
****************************************

And Trent Dilfer and Eli Manning (I'm not a fan) won superbowls. And Rex Grossman got to one. Its absolutely amazing to me how one can discount the value of a dominant defense. All Orton had to do was not F up. They're running game and O-line was there offense. Orton has to score point in Denver, their D is weak. You will eat this comment very very quickly.


Posted by: kingtutts | April 3, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Dont be suprised if our moronic FO drafts Malcom Jenkins with our first pick

Posted by: GreatOne1 | April 3, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Going to Rays Hell Burger today for the first time.

I hope it's as good as some of you said.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

psp, 1000 percent spot on, Cutler probably will struggle in Chicago, given the lack of playmakers, and Denver will take a few steps back due to the lack of talent they now have at qb....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Yeah we haven't been suffering already.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | April 3, 2009 10:35 AM

And you're the type of masochist who likes the suffering so much that he wants it to continue. Sorry, can't go that route with you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

PSP - Cutler isn't a definite quite yet....

Only time will tell how this plays out. McDaniels didn't want Cutty in the 1st place.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

"McDaniels didn't want Cutty in the 1st place."

Hence the mistake on Denver's part. HOF coach and 25 year-old pro-bowl QB one year, egotistical rookie coach and a gathering of spot-starters at QB the next. I'm sure Bowlen is really patting himself on the back right now.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Browns Deny Shopping Quinn
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 3, 2009, 10:19 a.m. EDT
Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini dismissed a report that the Browns were involved in a prospective three-team trade that would have deposited former Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn with the Denver Broncos, according to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Through a team spokesman, Mangini said that a report involving a potential deal between the Broncos, Washington Redskins and Browns was untrue. The Broncos wound up sending quarterback Jay Cutler to the Chicago Bears.

Citing a Washington source, the report stated that the Broncos were high on Quinn and Bears quarterback Kyle Orton, who wound up being traded to Denver. The Broncos didn’t want Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell.

Per the Plain Dealer, Quinn is due $11 million in escalator clauses if he plays 70 percent of the snaps next season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I see Chicago as having gotten immediately better. Cutler in for Orton/Grossman is an upgrade, without a doubt. Doesn’t matter who their receivers are or aren’t; they were 9-7 last year, have a young stud RB and a dominant defense. They just got better. I don’t hear much talk about them now missing out on a great 1st round receiver that they were going to draft with their first rounder this year…

Broncos may not be that great this year, but 3 or 4 1st rounders in the next 2 years puts them is a pretty good spot, and while Orton isn’t great, he is definitely serviceable. If they can get a good RB in the draft and work on their d, they should be pretty darn good in a couple of years. We’ll see of course.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

'....Dont be suprised if our moronic FO drafts Malcom Jenkins with our first pick...'


I won't be surprised.

Been posting that either Jenkins or Harvin might be two surprise picks the might made, especially so now in light of the Cutler trade and maybe Denver snagging Sanchez.

If the team could trade down to the bootom of the 1st round either Jenkins, A Smith, or Macho Harris would make fine players for the team.

The bloggas have been posting, "...Oher, Orakpo, Cushing, Smith,...," but I got a sense the whole Cutler affair hints at a desire to improve offensively. That's why I think if an offensive skill player is there, they'll snag him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Did you know Shanahan and Vinny are real good friends?

Also, did you know Shanahan was the GM as well?

So, the terrible defense is attributed to Shanahan. He should have been fired a few years earlier. He didn't even have to draft Cutty. He had Jake Plummer and they had a winning record when Shanahan made the switch.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure Bowlen is really patting himself on the back right now.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 10:51 AM

Denver was stuck in a rut with Shanahan. I'm sure Bowlen will give it a few years to see how it turns out.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"Doesn’t matter who their receivers are or aren’t; they were 9-7 last year, have a young stud RB and a dominant defense. They just got better. I don’t hear much talk about them now missing out on a great 1st round receiver that they were going to draft with their first rounder this year"

um....so the bears brought in a top flight qb, but have no one for him to throw to, and thats ok....help me out with this logic??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Alot of the blame has been put on the Skins Oline last year, but let's not forget, Zorn's playcalling was just as bas sometimes. How many times did he call a play action pass on 3rd and long? And with the Line's struggles, why in the world didn't he implement more shotgun formations which JC was very comfortable with under Gibbs? I hope his playcalling is alot better this year.

Posted by: ga8085 | April 3, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Just saw an updated mock with Denver having two picks.

It has them taking Mauluga with there 1st and Josh Freeman QB Kansas with there 2nd.

They have us taking Oher.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not here for ownership."

Here is the best part. I wish more fans would adopt this attitude.

I think the fans are more sensative than the players, except for guys like Cutler and T.O.

Newsflash, Cutler hasn't proven anything either. Aside from putting up huge numbers, he has a losing record, and missed the playoffs!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

whats the deal with Oher, most every mock I see has him going in the 20's...why is he falling?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

'...Cutler probably will struggle in Chicago, given the lack of playmakers...'


Cutler struggling is relative.

The team with 9-7 with Hester, Forte, a good young tight end, and a strong defense.

The defense makes up for the lack of offensve production as it always does with that team.

Cutler's arm is worth 10 points a game for the bears, even without playmakers as they play ugly anyways. If they add Torry Holt--and they will--things don't look so bad ashis numbers were better than ARE's last year-61 catches.

So 10 points a game makes the bears, what 11-5, playoffs in a division with the vikings, packers, lions?

The NFC 'Norris' Division is coming up, y'all.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

That mock actually has the Skins taking Oher over Smith.

They have Smith going 16th.

I would not take Oher over Smith.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I think people are worried about his ability to pick up the playbook.

I also think people are worried about his dedication.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Sorry that should have said blocking schemes not playbook.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

flound, no way would I take oher over smith....Smith will just maul in the run game...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I'm glad the trade didn't go through. I like many in here believe Campbell can be a very good QB in this league - a little protection would go a long way.

Having said that, a few things:

Cutler at THIS POINT in their careers is the better QB. He is not however two #1 picks better, not even close.

The idea that the Redskins are "undermining" their QB because they were examining the cost of Cutler is so out of whack. Look, it is the front offices' JOB to take at least a look at anyone that becomes available or is dangled and see if there is any way they can better the team by acquiring them. I don't have any issue with Cerrato and Snyder looking into Cutler - I do have an issue if they offered what the Bears did, which is WAAAAY too much.

As for Campbell, kudos to him for not being the whining child that Cutler was in Denver, but the truth is he did what any person SHOULD do: take the high road and PROVE you are the better player by showing it on the field.

I don't have any need for players who are so sensitive they can't handle being involved in trade rumors, no matter who they are. How can a QB lead a team if his ego is so fragile that he can't handle something that is the very nature of this business?

On another note, it kind of reminds me of JLC whining about Cerrato giving misinformation or outright lying to the press. Pllllleeeeassse. It is the nature of the beast. Deal with it!

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | April 3, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

flounder

'...They have us taking Oher...'

And we should take Oher.

But I think the FO is thinking, "We take him and he sits and watches Samuels, Heyer/Jansen. Why?"

I think with four picks, they think, "We want a guy who can play on day 1."

And if it's an offensive player, that's Harvin, Maclin: yes, I'm back to that again.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

pabrian: "Cutler hasn't proven anything either. Aside from putting up huge numbers, he has a losing record, and missed the playoffs!"

That means he's a bad QB? How about those other 50 guys on the Broncs? And the coaches, and the front office? Where were they?

The QB might be the most important position, but it's still a team game.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 3, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"Denver was stuck in a rut with Shanahan. I'm sure Bowlen will give it a few years to see how it turns out.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

I'm sure he will too. No doubts about that. But my guess is he's like an avid Wizards fan that just dropped 2 grand betting the Wizards win their game tomorrow. You hope it happens, you pray it happens, you convince yourself of all the reasons it could happen, but deep down you're asking yourself "What have I done?"

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Mista,

Anything is possible, I think Oher or Smith would start over Heyer/Jansen day one.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

um....so the bears brought in a top flight qb, but have no one for him to throw to, and thats ok....help me out with this logic??
Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 10:58 AM

Who did Brady have to throw to before Moss and Welker came to town? Also, they have Forte to catch balls out of the backfield…Giants won the NFC east with “nobody” to throw to. Eagles went to the NFC championship with who? A cocky a$$ rookie led the team in receptions. I’ll say it again; they just got better……..You don’t think Cutler is an upgreade over Orton? Puh-lease……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

whats the deal with Oher, most every mock I see has him going in the 20's...why is he falling?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:02 AM

Apparently, you have not been reading my posts for the past, say, 2 months now???

I have stated before he is not a top 15 draft pick. To me, he's a reach in the 20 in general.

The book pushed him up to the top 10, but reality is slowly creeping back in....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm proud of JC 17. That is how a man handles his business. Let's lock down a RT and protect our QB. This fan base is growing more & more tired of the ownership and their ridiculous method of operandi...
Love to see JC have a great season and then I'll hate to watch him walk away!

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I think Oher or Smith would start over Heyer/Jansen day one.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:10 AM

Smith would start over both.

Oher may start over neither of them his 1st year.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Who did Brady have to throw to before Moss and Welker came to town? Also, they have Forte to catch balls out of the backfield…Giants won the NFC east with “nobody” to throw to. Eagles went to the NFC championship with who? A cocky a$$ rookie led the team in receptions. I’ll say it again; they just got better……..You don’t think Cutler is an upgreade over Orton? Puh-lease……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 11:10 AM |

dl,

Lets not compare a QB that has never played in a playoff game, to arguably the best QB of the last 20 years.

I do think he is better than Orton, but he had way better receivers and O-Line in Denver.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

So 10 points a game makes the bears, what 11-5, playoffs in a division with the vikings, packers, lions?

The NFC 'Norris' Division is coming up, y'all.

Posted by: MistaMoe

does 10-6 in the nfc east make you a better team then 11-5 in the Lions division?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Check Cutler's stats. When behind in a game he threw 12 TD and 12 INT last year. He has thrown 32 INTS in the last 32 games. He's good for 1 INT per game despite only being sacked 11 times. I'm so glad he isn't coming to DC, now let's hope the FO takes Perria Jerry (or Oher or Smith) instead of Sanchez.

I'm a defense first guy and we need help in both trenches. An awesome front four on defense will generate more 3 and outs and turnovers. We can win on defense now. We can win on offense in 2010 when those two dumb WRs finally learn the playbook.

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | April 3, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm proud of JC 17. That is how a man handles his business. Let's lock down a RT and protect our QB. This fan base is growing more & more tired of the ownership and their ridiculous method of operandi...
Love to see JC have a great season and then I'll hate to watch him walk away!

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:11 AM |

Speak for yourself, JC will not ne free to walk away, there are plenty of ways the Skins could make him stay.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

'....I hope his [Zorn's] playcalling is alot better this year...'

The thing I remembe from last year was Zorn saying he didn't install his entire playbook during the off season: this is the thinking of a good coach as he really wants to see just what he has as a team.

You have to believe last year's playbook will be second nature to the team, and this year's add-ons should improve the playcalling as the entire scheme starts getting put in.

I think Zorn is smart to move in this way as it develops stability and fluidity. The production will come, and if it doesn't, next year, we'll be drafting a new savior at quarterback.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

does 10-6 in the nfc east make you a better team then 11-5 in the Lions division?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Abso-freakin-lutely!

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Who did Brady have to throw to before Moss and Welker came to town?"

Troy Brown
Donte Stallworth
Jabar Gaffney
Reche Caldwell
Deion Branch
David Givens.

Last time I checked, between Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens there was what, 9 Super Bowl Rings, and 1 Super Bowl MVP....

Last time I checked, the Pats won 3 super bowls PRIOR to getting Welker, and Moss. So thats 3-0 with Branch/Givens/Brown, and 0-1 with Moss/Welker..

Wanna try that one again.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Cutler at THIS POINT in their careers is the better QB. He is not however two #1 picks better, not even close."

Hold up a minute. Depends on where those number one picks fall.

The Bears were at 18. That's a good but not great pick. You might get the 4th or 5th rated OL or pass rusher. Denver's already got the 12 pick, a lot more valuable than 18 given the way the top talent is spread. So maybe they draft the lowest rated of the 3 QBs, or package it with another pick and try to move up higher in the round.

Next year is when the trade's real value begins to show, with two first rounders. The Bears have to hope they're in the playoffs anyway and the choice is in the mid-20's or worse. Even if it is, the Broncos could still package it and move up higher in the first round.

Really, out of an emotional situation, the teams managed to come up with a fairly rational solution. So somebody in Denver is doing some thinking.

How much effect will Cutler have in Chicago? They're still short of receivers. Torry Holt would help. Hester really should go back to returning kicks, he's incredibly valuable there. Some decent second and third round receivers there (the Bears have another 3rd pick) so they might well grab one.

Still, it's going to be a shock for Cutler when he looks for Brandon Marshall and doesn't see him.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 3, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Speak for yourself, JC will not ne free to walk away, there are plenty of ways the Skins could make him stay.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Dude- I did speak for myself. It's my handle at the end of the post not your's, of course that is obvious the post is intelligent with correct spelling and punctuation.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

pabrian2003

'...does 10-6 in the nfc east make you a better team then 11-5 in the Lions division?'

I think it makes the teams the same.

The thing is, who makes the playoffs?

The 11-5 bears and 10-6 redskins sounds like a Wild Card weekend contest waiting to happen on a frigid day in Chi-Town.

I think we go in and take that game away form the home team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

"He has nothing to feel angry or insulted about. He has done nothing to warrant complete confidence."--a Poster


And if he ever reads this board, certainly no reason to feel loyalty to "fans."

The guy comes across as a super-classy individual, and naturally the same shadenfreuders who snark on other topics, can't wait to rip him anyway.

If he's as bad as some think he is, there will be plenty of opportunity to spew bile down the road.

In the meantime, give the dude props for acting the way he has under most difficult circumstances.

For contrast, you might compare him to Portis and his comments about his coach.

Posted by: TheCork | April 3, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

*** NEWS FLASH ***

Zorn and Campbell stick it to Snyder

Don't you just love this!

Us against them

Sometimes in life we need that special edge that
gives us a competitive advantage. For Zorn and
Campbell, this is it.

The thought that if they picked up Cutler, it signaled
that they would get Shanahan, even if it wasn't actually true
provides them a special bond.

I.E. we are in this together


Campbell is a nice QB and a class act. That won't change,but
now he has that edge

Eye of the tiger

He wants to win and so does Zorn. But this is now personal and
this is the absolute best thing that could have happened to him.
We will now find out what he is made of.

When he says I don't play for ownership, he really means:

F*** You Snyder

He wants to win real bad, but what he really wants to say is:

Your going to pay me BIG TIME

You may have leverage today.... but my time will come.

I can't wait. I love the redskins and I support Snyder's decision
and right to improve his/our team. I have no problem and neither
should you.

But for campbell, It's different. Snyder owes him nothing. That's not
what this post is about. It's about the opportunity and challange that
faces him.

I'm not totally sold on him as a leader who can take us to the playoffs
and I'm sure you will agree. But now,more than ever, I'm rooting for
Jason BIG TIME.

In the end, we all win because the Redskins will be better. But the other
reason is that Campbell and to an extent Zorn will have the wonderful
opportunity to stick it to Snyder and say:

I'm in control now and you will pay me...JACK

Posted by: skinsbacker | April 3, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I think Oher or Smith would start over Heyer/Jansen day one.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:10 AM

Smith would start over both.

Oher may start over neither of them his 1st year.

Posted by: 4thFloor
====================================

If we did take Smith and he was ready to start, Jansen should be able to play both Tackle and Guard in a reserve role. We know Heyer can play both tackle spots.

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | April 3, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

"The production will come, and if it doesn't, next year, we'll be drafting a new savior at quarterback.

Posted by: MistaMoe"

As well as bringing in one of the big 4 -- Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, or Holmgren.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

dl,
Lets not compare a QB that has never played in a playoff game, to arguably the best QB of the last 20 years.
I do think he is better than Orton, but he had way better receivers and O-Line in Denver.
Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:14 AM

I’m not saying that Cutler is the next Brady, or that he has the same weapons as he did in Denver. My point is, that the Bears are now a better team than they were yesterday. I was making a point to all those that were saying the bears were stupid to have made this trade. All I said was that they got better and that their fans are probably psyched. I would be. All factors aside, they just got upgraded at the most important position on the team which makes them better. Period. Not better than everyone else, just better.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

2009 Draft:

Take a T at 13

or

Trade the house (like 2 more picks) to move up and get orakpo, my reasoning is this, we got haynesworth, now lets go for the gusto, we got 'em down, now lets kick em while they r there.... if haynesworth is taking on multiple blockers, we need that guy to go and take out the qb and right now the Redskins don't have that guy

or if no tackle is at 13 or raji or perry (i would take both DT f-it, let's line up 4 DT on the line and have haynesworth play DE sometimes) trade down to get more picks, teams may want to move up and get sanchez or jenkins, 2 i believe possible "elite players", who we dont need neccessarily

at the end of the day just get someone who can play ball, a nasty player who people fear, in the mold our our boy Sean "Big pun" Taylor

Posted by: retroskins14 | April 3, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Who cares what he really feels like, he will never say it publicly.

He will go out and play his but off this year, it is his contract year and he will either get paid here or somewhere else.

If he plays bad because he is upset, well then he will not get paid here or anywhere else.

Pro Football is a buisness the players aren't loyal, and the owners arn't loyal it goes both ways.

Posted by: Flounder21

Well put. Unfortunately that is what all Pro sports have come down to. Rarely do you see a player stay with a team even if he gets an offer close to the one he is offered by another team and rarely do you see team reward some players ie Ryan Clark, Antonio Pierce.

Posted by: oldtimer4 | April 3, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm proud of JC 17. That is how a man handles his business. Let's lock down a RT and protect our QB. This fan base is growing more & more tired of the ownership and their ridiculous method of operandi...
Love to see JC have a great season and then I'll hate to watch him walk away!

Posted by: Hail2theChief

Let's lock down a LT and make him play on the right for now.

Let's not predict Campbell to walk away. Winning cures all ails. Let's hope he has a good season, gets a fat new contract, and the Gibbs/ST21 karma will prevail over FF owner mojo.

Thank you Bears!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

samson

'....Still, it's going to be a shock for Cutler when he looks for Brandon Marshall and doesn't see him...'

But Hester's returns will shorten the fields and his occasional return for a touchdown or score of a screen will make up for that.

Then, when things get tough, he gives the ball to Matt Forte 25 times and game, and his killa defense shuts down the other team in a field goal slug fest.

Cutler doesn't need 4500 yards to succeed in Chi-town. That's why da bears made that move: they can win ugly, but with his arm, they can go for the throat once the receivers are in place.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

McDaniels didn't want Cutty in the 1st place.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lets also not discount the fact that McDaniels is a moron. Cutler is a way way better player than Cassel. McDaniels lack of confidence in being able to teach his system is the biggest reason this all happened. Cassel is a joke. And you will see that in KC, easily.

Posted by: kingtutts | April 3, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Dude- I did speak for myself. It's my handle at the end of the post not your's, of course that is obvious the post is intelligent with correct spelling and punctuation.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:20 AM |

Thanks spell checker like I really give a sh!t about spelling on this blog.

You said if I read correctly that the fan base which includes me, was sick of the way the team was being run.

If you were speaking for yourself you would have said I'm sick of the way the team is being run.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

In the meantime, give the dude props for acting the way he has under most difficult circumstances.

For contrast, you might compare him to Portis and his comments about his coach.

Posted by: TheCork

unnecessary jab at future redskins all time leading rusher, and possible HOF'er

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"Who did Brady have to throw to before Moss and Welker came to town?"
Troy Brown
Donte Stallworth
Jabar Gaffney
Reche Caldwell
Deion Branch
David Givens.
Last time I checked, between Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens there was what, 9 Super Bowl Rings, and 1 Super Bowl MVP....
Last time I checked, the Pats won 3 super bowls PRIOR to getting Welker, and Moss. So thats 3-0 with Branch/Givens/Brown, and 0-1 with Moss/Welker..
Wanna try that one again.....
Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:17 AM

That’s quite a list of hall of famers there Greg. You forgot about David Patten; he’s been unbelievable since he hasn’t had Brady throwing to him….He really turned the skins corps around. What have ANY of them done without Brady? Those receivers are marginal at best and could only be considered good because Brady was their QB. You try again…..

Again, see my reply to Flounder above, the Bears are now a better team than they were yesterday. Explain to me why they are not better…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Everyone who thinks Dan Snyder is a low-life, scumbag, piece of garbage...say HAIL!

HAIL!

Posted by: Salinas1 | April 3, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

dl, they upgraded at qb, no one will argue that. They don't have talent at WR, and they just signed OPace to play RT. Last year Cutler was sacked 11 times, this year, with no real weapons to throw to, and learning a new system you can expect that figure to JUMP exponentially. They improved, but they also hurt themselves by trading as much as they did. 1st and a third this year, and a 1st next year. Teams are gonna stuff 9 guys in the box, and stop the run, then bring the blitz on passing downs.

How many superbowls has Brady won since Branch/Givens left again.....oh right...thats zero.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

pabrian2003

'...does 10-6 in the nfc east make you a better team then 11-5 in the Lions division?'

I think it makes the teams the same.

The thing is, who makes the playoffs?

The 11-5 bears and 10-6 redskins sounds like a Wild Card weekend contest waiting to happen on a frigid day in Chi-Town.

I think we go in and take that game away form the home team.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Does sound like a WC match-up. Teams in other divisions have a better chance to make the playoffs. All we can do is make our team the best it can be.

I think we can take the Bears w/ Cutler too!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Speak for yourself, JC will not ne free to walk away, there are plenty of ways the Skins could make him stay.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

---

Dude- I did speak for myself. It's my handle at the end of the post not your's, of course that is obvious the post is intelligent with correct spelling and punctuation.

Posted by: Hail2theChief

---

I think my good friend Flounder is mistaken. As Mr. Cutler just demonstrated, a quarterback can make himself so poisonous that a team will unload him. A powerful agent also ensures the "favor" of finding a new home for an unhappy player will be returned down the road, and vice versa. This isn't to say the Redskins would screw this up--but in general, that's so.

That said, Mr. Snarkalopulous--although responding to a perceived insult--attacked the Flound-man on something we all commit here while violating RULE ONE of insulting another's English skills. Get it right yourself. You could start by using correct punctuation--no offense. I find hyphens solve a lot of punctuation problems.

Posted by: TheCork | April 3, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The key to the 2009 season is to spell Griffin correctly.

It's G-R-I-F-F-I-N.

You can misspell any other name on the skins, just don't misspell Griffin.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | April 3, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

OK fellas, time to tie a knot on this Cutler crap. Here are our concluding lessons:

1)JC17 has the mental/professional fortitude of granite; unlike sissy-wimp-extraordinaire Cutler.

2)JC17 has alot to prove on the field; whether he will or not has yet to be seen and "that is why you play the game".

3)Cutler has even MORE to prove on the field. I don't think he delivers, but we'll see.

4)We get further evidence that our franchise would be better run by a couple of one-nutted chimps throwing darts at a "decision-making" board.

I also like the idea of Zorn/Campbell staying tight through this while the donkeys upstairs work around the clock to tank their credibility along with this franchise.

Anyhow, it's time to get back to the business at hand - stressing about the draft and how Sneratto are gonna schmuck it up...


and shift back to stressing/complaining about the draft

Posted by: p1funk | April 3, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Cork,

You are correct if JC17 wanted out bad enough he could be a d!ck. Nothing he has shown would lead me to believe he would do that.

I was telling him to speak for himself in terms of the fan base hating the way the team is run.

I never insulted him in anyway.

As far as my English skills go, I will be the first to admit they are bad. I will also be the first to say I could care less. I make bank, and have spell checker to correct any mistakes when it comes to sending somethig to someone of importance.

But thanks for sticking up for me it's appreciated.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

'...Teams in other divisions have a better chance to make the playoffs. All we can do is make our team the best it can be....'

Bro', that is so true.

We'd have to split with the jints/'boys and sweep philly (again)just to talk smack about the playoffs.

That would make us 4-2 in the toughest division in football.

Maybe we go 6-4 or, better, 7-3 against the rest of the league, especially of the offense gets an additional 10 points a game here or there?

10-6 or 11-5 is doable if the offense improves and the defense keeps being stellar.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Everyone who thinks Dan Snyder is a low-life, scumbag, piece of garbage...say HAIL!

HAIL!

Posted by: Salinas1 | April 3, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse
=========

Nah. I don't like the way he runs a football team, but I'm not going to call him garbage as a result of that.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | April 3, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Build an elite D and we'll we'll sweep the Boyz and Iggles.

Posted by: TWISI | April 3, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell will have a good season and go into negotiations with the redskins team in good faith.

And the team will sit.

And wait.

And his agent will call them out in the media.

And the team glance around dazed and confused.

And then say, "Yeah, it's gonna get done, chill."

And, as with the D Evans situation, another team will sweep in, offer Campbell what the market says he's worth, the redskins will come back flustered, and Campbell will remember how he felt all Cutler-week, and say: "Bye, y'all."

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 3, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Based on everything that happened the past few days, it seems the writing is on the wall for Campbell. Unless he has a Stellar, and I mean a jaw dropping season, he is gone. So, it looks like We will either be drafting a QB in next years draft, or looking for one in FA.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | April 3, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

With this offseaon in mind... Joe Gibbs 2.0 never had a chance at a title. Not even close. Its actually amazing he did what he did with this "FO"

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Cutler is 12:1 when the stinky Bronco "defense" held opponents to 22 (twenty-two !!!) points. When was the last time the Skins scored 22 points?

Posted by: johnbear1 | April 3, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

The bears are a better team today then they were yesterday. They have not had a franchise QB in two decades at least. They paid dearly for that yesterday. It's not that Cutler "sucks", it's that the price was too high for us.

We may already have our franchise QB. We will know this year. If not, next years draft will be much richer in QB's than this year.

Campbell is developing, and needs a supporting cast (like an O line and some fast tall receivers who run the right route...). On D, they have NO depth at Corner, barely have 3 starting LB's (one who is a year or two away from done) and three DE's (Carter, Danials, Wynn) who are not dominant and past their prime, and Griff is 32 and got a bum shoulder.

We are desperately short on draft picks and Cap space. Trading two first round picks would have cost too much, made addressing these challenges untenable, and would not have made enough of an "upgrade" at QB to justify it.

Imagine two stud O-linemen with those two draft picks. Would you have packaged Samuels in his first year and Jansen in his first year and Campbell for Cutler? That's what that trade would amount to. If you say yes, then perhaps you should have your head checked.

What if we traded back with each of those first rounders and turned them into multiple first, second and/or third rounders? We would be giving all these options up with that trade.

It would have been a bad value for the Redskins.

Posted by: edvar | April 3, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure why so many people hate the front office for trying to improve the team. Cutler would have been an improvement for year to come. That said -- I'm so happy the Skins didn't send Campbell + [#13 + #80 + 2010 #1] draft picks to Denver for Cutler. That trade simply was not worth it for the Skins...

Ten other teams attempted to acquire Cutler and all their front offices were were praised. ESPN said it was an excellent move for the Bears; even though they gave up a QB + two #1 and a #3 draft picks. The Bears have not had a good QB in more than ten years. It appears the Washington Post reporters were behind most of the negative reporting as their BS was extensively quoted by other media outlets like the AP, PFW, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, and ESPN.

The Skins have not committed to Campbell past this year. Everyone knows that because his contract has not been extended. I think Campbell is a professional and class act. I hope he has a career year [with better support from his teammates] and the Skins sign him to long term contract.

Posted by: siris | April 3, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

There have been posts that have blamed the OL, the WRs or the QB for the Skins' offensive deficiencies but the truth is unless you know what plays were called and look at film you really don't know. And the only ones that can do that are the Skins. By their ardent pursuit of Cutler you'd have to say that those in a postion to know don't have a very high opinion of Campbell. Since the Skins are coming off of a dolorous 2008 2nd half performance, even with the upgrades they have made, a losing season next year would not be much if any of a surprise. It is only a matter of time before Campbell is replaced and the question is how and by whom. Sanchez is an interesting possibility but unless the Skins do something to improve their draft position, that will never happen. The dude had a good pro day and his stock went up. Then there is next year's draft and there is a least one promising prospect, Sam Bradford, and there probably will be more after the 2009 season is over. Another problematic factor is that the Skins aren't the only team desirous of a franchise QB. You could argue that the Jests and TB have much worse needs than the Skins do and they will be pressing for an answer also.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 3, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"Based on everything that happened the past few days, it seems the writing is on the wall for Campbell. Unless he has a Stellar, and I mean a jaw dropping season, he is gone. So, it looks like We will either be drafting a QB in next years draft, or looking for one in FA.


Posted by: gatorskinz2000 "

and I'm all for that if he doesn't have a very good year next year. 1 playoff win is almost the minimum IMO.

I like 'em, but it's time to aim higher than "well he's only average but at least he has character!"

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

dl, they upgraded at qb, no one will argue that. They don't have talent at WR, and they just signed OPace to play RT. Last year Cutler was sacked 11 times, this year, with no real weapons to throw to, and learning a new system you can expect that figure to JUMP exponentially. They improved, but they also hurt themselves by trading as much as they did. 1st and a third this year, and a 1st next year. Teams are gonna stuff 9 guys in the box, and stop the run, then bring the blitz on passing downs.
How many superbowls has Brady won since Branch/Givens left again.....oh right...thats zero.
Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 11:37 AM

“dl, they upgraded at qb, no one will argue that.”
That’s all I was trying to say.

“They improved, but they also hurt themselves by trading as much as they did”
Agree somewhat because they gave up SO much, but I don’t know what kind of immediate upgrade they could have gotten with a WR at 18 in the 1st round this year.

“Teams are gonna stuff 9 guys in the box, and stop the run, then bring the blitz on passing downs”
What do you think they did against Orton and Grossman, and the team still went 9-7, with “nobody” to throw too. Sure, his sacks may go up (and he is still an INT machine) but you could argue that his “quickest release in football” could even that out….

“How many superbowls has Brady won since Branch/Givens left again.....oh right...thats zero.”
I guess that settles it. Those guys are awesome. Really, that’s the reason they haven’t won in 4 years? No Branch and Givens? They lost to the Giants due to an arguably lucky play at the end of a season where they went undefeated, and Brady set a touchdown pass record along with an offense that scored the most points in NFL history. Yeah, they didn’t win the big game, but are you seriously trying to say that your list of receivers including Branch and Givens rates as a great set of receivers and that Brady wouldn’t have won without them? Not one of them is going to the hall, not one of them has done anything since moving to other teams, or retiring, and not one of them could be listed as a number 1 receiver anywhere. Branch was maybe the number 1 in Seattle for a few games, but face it, he’s is nothing without Brady.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Cutler is 12:1 when the stinky Bronco "defense" held opponents to 22 (twenty-two !!!) points. When was the last time the Skins scored 22 points?

Posted by: johnbear1 | April 3, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Cutler didnt have to throw the same recievers, his OL was different among other variables. Are you f*&^%in serial?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"Cutler didnt have to throw the same recievers, his OL was different among other variables. Are you f*&^%in serial?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz"

can't forget that Campbell had a different waterboy, too!


Do yall EVER get over all the excuses?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I still don't understand the "the Skins are short on draft picks" line of reasoning. The Skins still have five out of seven draft picks this year. Most teams would be happy to discover two or three NFL players in each draft. By this measure -- the Skins have been successful in drafts, since Cerrato joined the team. I'm glad the Skins don't have an owner that requires 1/3 of the team be rookies to save money on salaries and stay 20-30 million under the cap...

So in my opinion -- it's the quality of draft picks and not the number of rookies you bring in each year. The number of drafted players who make the roster (after three years of development) is much more important than the number of draft picks each team has in any given year. In particular, since modern team building strategy combines the draft with signing free agents to fill any additional holes.

Posted by: siris | April 3, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

yes raji would be great with haynesworth but its not an area of need!the best available pass rusher from DE or OL is what we need in the first round i mean has every one forgot about gohlston. he is abeast and only gettin better not to mention montgomery who is huge and has mad potential. they are both young and under the wing of haynesworth and griffith they could be come sumthin special!!

Posted by: all_this_bs | April 3, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

There have been posts that have blamed the OL, the WRs or the QB for the Skins' offensive deficiencies but the truth is unless you know what plays were called and look at film you really don't know. And the only ones that can do that are the Skins. By their ardent pursuit of Cutler you'd have to say that those in a postion to know don't have a very high opinion of Campbell.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 3, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Dude... the people "evaluating" the film and making deals are Snyder and Cerrato. Thats if they even look at film. I doubt Snyder could reach the controls to actually view film if he wanted to. So that makes me picture Cerrato manning the controls while lil Dan tells him to hit fast forward to where JC throws an int. These guys have shown their hand. They are absolutely, positively incapable of running an NFL team. And the worst part, they seem to not know this... do you?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

PFT: "Given that players are repeatedly told by the NFL, combine officials and their respective representatives that they will be tested for recreational and performance-enhancing drugs at the combine, it’s an even bigger red flag for someone to test positive at that venue."

How did Raji F this up? Did someone bake him special brownies and not tell him? I wish someone would bake up a batch for Orakpo so he'd fall to 13...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I just daydreamed that Aaron Curry fell to #13


AND we actually took him!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Here are some interesting stats for Campbell last season:

Areas where Campbell is great, borderline elite:

In the 4th quarter when games are "close", meaning the margin is 7 pts or less:
28 of 50, 380 yards, 7.6 YPA, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 100.4 rating

Stuck in terrible field position (inside our own 20):
38 of 50, 424 yards, 8.48 YPA, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 100.8 rating

Inside the opponents 10 yard line (deep in the red zone):
12 of 20, 7 TDs, 0 INTs, 104.2 rating, 1 rush TD

On 4th downs:
5 of 8, 37 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 113.0 rating

Throwing down the middle of the field:
38 for 58, 471 yards, 8.18 YPA, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 100.6 rating

Passes thrown 41+ yards:
2 of 9, 120 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 116.2 rating

With motion:
25 of 39, 214 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 104.0 rating

Areas where Campbell is good to very good:

When the game is tied:
81 of 117, 727 yards, 6.21 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT, 96.4 rating

In the 2nd quarter:
97 of 154, 1034 yards, 6.71 YPA, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 93.4 rating

Against the blitz:
111 of 184, 1244 yards, 6.76 YPA, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 90.5 rating, 14 sacks

On 2nd down:
104 of 153, 1068 yards, 6.98 YPA, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 91.6 rating

On 3rd & long:
38 of 58, 452 yards, 7.79 YPA, 1 TD, 0 INT, 94.9 rating

Passes thrown behind the LOS:
71 of 91, 505 yards, 5.55 YPA, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 97.1 rating

Passes thrown between 21-30 yards downfield:
6 of 17, 178 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 94.7 rating

Thrown to the right side of the field:
66 of 98, 6.43 YPA, 5 TDs, 2 INTs, 93.5 rating

2 WR sets:
91 of 147, 1137 yards, 7.74 YPA, 4 TD, 2 INT, 89.3 rating

In a 2 TE formation:
44 of 70, 462 yards, 6.6 YPA, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 96.3 rating

Inside the red zone (opponents 20):
32 of 63, 11 TD, 1 INT, 91.5 rating, 4 sacks

Inside our half of the field, from the 21-50 yard line:
156 of 273, 1763 yards, 7.44 YPA, 2 TD, 2 INT, 87.2 rating

Areas where Campbell is sub-par:

Between the halfway line and the red zone (opponents 49-20):
89 of 156, 844 yards, 5.41 YPA, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 64.2 rating

To the left side of the field:
38 of 58, 375 yards, 6.4 YPA, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 76.4 rating

To the left sideline:
79 of 139, 855 yards, 6.15 YPA, 0 TD, 0 INT, 75.1 rating

3 WR sets:
141 of 224, 1298 yards, 5.8 YPA, 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 77.2 rating, 21 sacks

When the team is winning:
74 of 125, 697 yards, 5.58 YPA, 2 TD, 1 INT, 76.7 rating, 13 sacks

In the 1st quarter:
71 of 119, 602 yards, 5.07 YPA, 1 TD, 1 INT, 72.2 rating

On 1st & 10:
107 of 179, 1167 yards, 6.52 YPA, 3 TDs, 3 INTs, 77.7 rating

3rd & short:
4 of 12, 29 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 35.4 rating

No blitz:
204 of 322, 2001 yards, 6.21 YPA, 5 TDs, 4 INTs, 24 sacks, no passer rating given

Pretty much everything else is adequate, between 80-86 passer rating (Shotgun, no motion, passes between 1-20 yards, passes to the right side of the field, when we're behind, 3rd & 4th quarters as a whole, 4+ WR sets, etc.)

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if the Skins strategy with not extending Campbell this year had more to do with his performance and future viability or Snyder gambling that next year will be uncapped so they can afford to sign Campbell to a market contract, with a huge signing bonus.

Posted by: siris | April 3, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what Vinny's current "big board" looks like.

Unfortunately I think he has Hasheem Thabeet, Center UConn as #1.

Doh!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

psps23 thanks for posting that.

Posted by: TWISI | April 3, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

tired of stats and excuses, I'd like results

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Glad to have you as our QB, JC17

I'm interested to hear about Griff's shoulder and Golstons's tender offer.

Anyone know if there are teams interested in Golston?

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Cutler is a way way better player than Cassel... Cassel is a joke. And you will see that in KC, easily.

Posted by: kingtutts | April 3, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

really? i see. or i will see. actually i don't see, nor do i think i will ever see these statement bearing out. Cutler is a head case with a good arm. Not the makeup I want in my franchise QB

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 3, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Cassel is going to have fun behind the Chiefs O-Line.
/sarcasm

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Cassel is going to have fun behind the Chiefs O-Line.
/sarcasm

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 12:37 P

I know it's a new coach and all, but I am surprised that they weren't happy to give that guy Tyler Thigpen another year, or try to move him. That guy was a gamer. Pretty exciting QB to watch, even thought the team was overall pretty terrible.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone know if there are teams interested in Golston?

Posted by: matthewvickers "

I'll answer a question with a question :

When was the last time any other team was interested in any Washington Redskin player?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone know if there are teams interested in Golston?

Posted by: matthewvickers "

I'll answer a question with a question :

When was the last time any other team was interested in any Washington Redskin player?
Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:43 PM

Evans to the 49ers?
Golston is a very good tackle. He should draw interest. Why hasn't he signed his tender, is a better a question.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

For this evaluation, I'm putting Zorn and Campbell together, as one does not work without the other (due to playcalling)

It seems to me, based on the stats I posted above, that Campbell's at his best when he's put on the spot to step up (3rd & long, close games in the 4th quarter, red zone, against the blitz, in terrible field position).

When he seems to be at his worst is when he and/or Zorn get complacent, or when they don't feel the "need" to go for the big hit (1st & 10, 1st quarters, when the team is leading, 3rd & short, when the team is outside the red zone in the opponents half). To me, this reeks of a conservative gameplan and conservative mindset from both Zorn and Campbell, not wanting to blow any mistakes when it's not necessary to risk them.

Campbell also seems to be better when he's taking shots down the field than when he's not (this could be a criticism or Zorn for not calling more shots, a criticism of Campbell for not taking more shots, or a praise of Campbell for ensuring he's going to be efficient when he does take shots).

It's also interesting to note that he has trouble in 3 WR sets (a playbook mastery issue?), but then is good with 4+ WR sets (shows good progressions?). They contradict each other, so I'm unsure what to make of it.

The other standout statistic is that Campbell was sacked 24 times on 322 non-blitzes vs 14 sacks on 184 blitzes. Every 13.4 non-blitz rushes Campbell got sacked. Every 13.1 blitzes Campbell got sacked. They get beat more often without the blitz than they do with the blitz. Two theories here:

(1) When there is no blitz, Campbell holds the ball too long looking through his progressions, thus leading to more sacks. When there is a blitz, he's forced to think quickly and gets rid of it in a timely fashion. Campbell needs to do better with the speed of his progressions in non-blitz situations.

(2) When there is a blitz, Campbell's quick mind hits the hot read, thus leading to his high efficiency. When there is no blitz, there is no hot read, and the offensive line doesn't give Campbell the adequate time necessary to work through his progressions properly.

Of course, it could be a combination of both. My feeling is that it's a combo of both, and Campbell's extra time in the same playbook will most certainly help his progressions. On the other hand, I don't know how much better the offensive line will be simply by sticking together, considering they've mostly all been playing together for a while now.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Recent Super Bowl QBs:

Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Matt Hasselbeck (Zorn's former pupil)
Rex Grossman
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Rich Gannon
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme

How many "franchise QBs" are on this list? I count 2 or 3. I'd say JC17 is already better than at least half the QBs on this list, and he improves every year.

Seems to me, there must be a better way of building a Super Bowl team than just searching for this magical "franchise QB"!

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

"They get beat more often without the blitz than they do with the blitz."

My mistake, they get beat more often against the blitz than not against the blitz (1/13.1 vs 1/13.4). Still the difference is negligible and the point remains the same.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

When does the full NFL schedule get released? For some reason I thought it was today.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"Recent Super Bowl QBs:

Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Matt Hasselbeck (Zorn's former pupil)
Rex Grossman
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Rich Gannon
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Jake Delhomme

How many "franchise QBs" are on this list? I count 2 or 3. I'd say JC17 is already better than at least half the QBs on this list, and he improves every year.

Seems to me, there must be a better way of building a Super Bowl team than just searching for this magical "franchise QB"!

Posted by: Alan4"

umm


last 8


Big Ben
Eli
Peyton
Big Ben
Brady
Brady
Gannon
Brady

7 out of the last 8 Superbowls have been won by franchise QB's.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

play calling has a lot to do with our inefficiencies as an offense and that relates to the trust Zorn has in our WRs to get open. IF last year's greenhorns step up then we will be a much better unit. Of course we are 1 injury away from saying "we'll get 'em next year"

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

JC17 compares very favorably (if not better) than "franchise QB" Big Ben.

Eli has also been up and down, but the Giants have stuck it out with him.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"JC17 compares very favorably (if not better) than "franchise QB" Big Ben.

Eli has also been up and down, but the Giants have stuck it out with him.

Posted by: Alan4 "

Big Ben = worse offensive line + more rings > JC

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

all_this_bs:

Gholston seems like a good player with room to improve, but I wouldn't call him a beast. I don't think he is feared by opposing offenses.

Posted by: amcg | April 3, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Big Ben = worse offensive line + more rings = being on a great TEAM

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Big Ben = worse offensive line + more rings > JC

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:00 PM


Funny, you call Gannon and Big Ben franchise QBs. ESPN calls them 2 of the Top 10 Worst QBs to ever win a Super Bowl.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

When he seems to be at his worst is when he and/or Zorn get complacent, or when they don't feel the "need" to go for the big hit (1st & 10, 1st quarters, when the team is leading, 3rd & short, when the team is outside the red zone in the opponents half). To me, this reeks of a conservative gameplan and conservative mindset from both Zorn and Campbell, not wanting to blow any mistakes when it's not necessary to risk them.

Psps23, I would add that some of this complacency could be due to lack of trust btw QB and HC due to JZ being a 1st time HC and JC learning yet another O. When the games on the line, obviously complacency is thrown out the window. If they are more comfortable this year, hopefully they "go for the jugular" more like a dallas or steelers offense seems to do. Put teams in a whole and then count on your D to finish them off.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Funny, you call Gannon and Big Ben franchise QBs. ESPN calls them 2 of the Top 10 Worst QBs to ever win a Super Bowl.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Uh... Gannon won a SB? Thought he lost to TB when he was w/Raiders... and espn is a joke, but I think the worst QB to win a SB could be Big Bens first go around. He was a rookie and played horribly. The big play on offense was ARE to Hines Ward deep for a TD, not Big Benjamin.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I bet JC17 could have a ring if he we're a Steeler.

How many times was Big Ben sacked? Prolly a similar number to 38?

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

VaBeachBlitz, you're correct. He's in the list of top 10 worst QBs to start in a SB.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Bloggers who wanted think like Snyder, I suppose.

Bloggers who didn't want Cutler, like myself, don't think like Snyder.

You know who you are Snyder think-a-likes.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Alan4, I said 7 out of 8 QB's on that list were franchise QB's. Don't put words in my mouth. It was completely 100% obvious Gannon was NOT the franchise QB.

And like it or not, Big Ben is a franchise QB now and was last year, so the fact that he was on the same team when they won before doesn't change the fact that he was and is a franchise QB.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

All the "franchise QB" talk is moronic.

Aaron Rodgers
Tony Romo
Matt Schaub
David Garrard
Drew Brees
Matt Hasselbeck
Carson Palmer
Phil Rivers

They all belong to this special club. And guess what, if Jason Campbell got extended today, HE would be our franchise QB. That doesn't make it any more or any less likely that he'll lead us the the Super Bowl this season. It's an elementary argument to make.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"Bloggers who wanted think like Snyder, I suppose.

Bloggers who didn't want Cutler, like myself, don't think like Snyder.

You know who you are Snyder think-a-likes.


Posted by: pabrian2003 "


how about bloggers who wanted Cutler but not nerely for the price the Bears paid?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"Big Ben = worse offensive line + more rings = being on a great TEAM

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who"

note the part about "WORSE OFFENSIVE LINE"


that is Big Ben's TEAM

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

How many games before we see Colt take the field??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

"how about bloggers who wanted Cutler but not nerely for the price the Bears paid?"

Broncos made it clear from the start they wanted two 1st round draft picks...which some considered too much, others didn't

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I am so sick of the the excuses for Campbell... Unfortunately he has another one built in now..

I can here it now the front office destroyed his confidence

It is time for Campbell to perform or hit the road!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

""how about bloggers who wanted Cutler but not nerely for the price the Bears paid?"

Broncos made it clear from the start they wanted two 1st round draft picks...which some considered too much, others didn't

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who "

so how about bloggers who wanted Cutler but not nearly for the price the Bears paid?

Question still stands.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I was not trying to put words in your mouth, Truth. I misunderstood your list, which included Gannon.

But I think the case can easily be made that JC17 is a more talented QB than Big Ben, and half those Super Bowl starting QBs. Peyton and Brady are the only 2 I would say are clear-cut better than JC17 at this stage.

If the rest, like Big Ben, are franchise QBs... then so is JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"that is Big Ben's TEAM"

Steelers Defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Big Ben

take away that pick 6 from James Harrison........

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Am I understanding this correctly... some are saying that the Steelers OL is "worse" than the the Skins OL???

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

And, as with the D Evans situation

wow moe...just wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

WOW! CUTLER HOLDS GRUDGES ALL THE WAY FROM HIGH SCHOOL! I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP!


Cutler, Ron Turner Have Rocky History
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 3, 2009, 12:47 p.m.
Newly-acquired Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is known for holding a grudge, and he still seems to be holding one against Bears offensive coordinator Ron Turner stemming from an old recruiting dispute, according to Brad Biggs of the Chicago Sun-Times.

Citing people close to Cutler and a Denver Post column, some fences may need to be mended between Cutler and Turner now that they’re going to work together.

As a high school senior in southern Indiana, Cutler accepted a scholarship to Illinois where Turner was the head coach at the time. Cutler committed without visiting campus, though, and when he arrived for an official visit Turner reportedly pulled the offer.

“When Jay went for his official visit, the coach told him they were rescinding the offer because they had some hot-shot quarterback from California,” Heritage Hills athletic director Jay Burch told Denver Post columnist Woody Paige.

Illinois wound up signing Mike Dlugolecki, who wound up transferring to San Diego State. And Cutler had turned down offers from Purdue, Duke and Maryland to go to Illinois before winding up at Vanderbilt.

“It’s not right,” Jake Cutler, Cutler’s father, told ESPN.com. “I still have a bitter taste in my mouth.”

In the past, Turner has denied that Illinois rescinded the scholarship offer because Cutler was never made an offer.

Obviously, they’ll need to rehearse their lines a bit before the press conference today.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"Question still stands."

Makes them irrelevant and daydreamers...which all of us are to begin with. I'm sure a lot more people would have taken Cutler if the price wasn't as high. But that wasn't the question, because like I said, the Broncos made it clear what the wanted from the start....with so many teams bidding, they were going to get what they wanted.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 Are you nuts... Campbell is as good as Big Ben!?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"Am I understanding this correctly... some are saying that the Steelers OL is "worse" than the the Skins OL???

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz "

Big Ben sacked 46 times, JC sacks 38 times. Big Ben played less. They also gave up 3 sacks for Leftwich. Steelers last year had 1690 rushing yards, average of 3.7 per game, Redskins last year had 2095 rushing yards, average of 4.4 per game.

Yes, I think it is safe to say that Big Ben's OL was worse than JC's and that Big Ben is a better QB than JC.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I need a new deck built for my house. Anyone know Mike Vicks number?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

and I'm no JC hater, I don't mind him being our starting QB, but a lot of posters here are freaking homers.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 seriously when you make statements like that you lose all credibility. I mean come on how many Rings does Campbell have again!?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Dude- I did speak for myself. It's my handle at the end of the post not your's, of course that is obvious the post is intelligent with correct spelling and punctuation.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 3, 2009 11:20 AM |

If you are counting sacks given up then yes, problem is that sacks can be attributed to alot of things.

We out rushed them as well, we were 8th they were 23rd. The Skins had 17 more carries.

So if you are basing it on stats then are O-Line was better then Pitts.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Big Ben sacked 46 times, JC sacks 38 times. Big Ben played less. They also gave up 3 sacks for Leftwich. Steelers last year had 1690 rushing yards, average of 3.7 per game, Redskins last year had 2095 rushing yards, average of 4.4 per game.

Yes, I think it is safe to say that Big Ben's OL was worse than JC's and that Big Ben is a better QB than JC.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I would agree Big Benjamin is a better QB at this point. He has had some stability around him and a first class defense. So maybe that evens the playing field some in comparison to JC.
Your stats are compelling... but you left out this one stat TheTruth11...

Super Bowl Victories:
Pitts OL: 1.0
Skins OL: 0.0

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

That big fat ring makes up for a lot of sacks.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

VaBeachBlitz,

To tell you the truth, after looking at all those stats and analyzing where Campbell is effective and where he struggles, I'm actually more excited about his prospects for next season than I was before.

It's painfully obvious that he can do anything and everything on the field. You can't be a poor QB yet be great against the blitz, great in the 4th quarter of close games, great in the red zone, great in terrible field position, great on 3rd & longs, great on 4th downs, and basically great in every clutch "need-to-step-up" situation. He has everything.

To me, his (and Zorn's) problem is mental. He's either mindf***ing himself into thinking he can't take risks when it's not necessary, or Zorn is mindf***ing him into thinking the same thing.

The thing is, Campbell is great when he takes risks. He consistently steps it up when called upon. It's not necessary to "protect" him from himself. He's not Brad Johnson, or Trent Dilfer, or Kerry Collins, etc. He's actually a damn good playmaking QB. It just so happens that they don't think they need to make plays that often in order to win (because of their defense and running game).

I really, really hope they get over that mental block of conservative playcalling. It will be fun to see him unleashed, if it ever happens.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Sorry copied and pasted the wrong post that should have said.

Am I understanding this correctly... some are saying that the Steelers OL is "worse" than the the Skins OL???

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:18 PM |

If you are counting sacks given up then yes, problem is that sacks can be attributed to alot of things.

We out rushed them as well, we were 8th they were 23rd. The Skins had 17 more carries.

So if you are basing it on stats then are O-Line was better then Pitts.


Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"I would agree Big Benjamin is a better QB at this point. He has had some stability around him and a first class defense. So maybe that evens the playing field some in comparison to JC.
Your stats are compelling... but you left out this one stat TheTruth11...

Super Bowl Victories:
Pitts OL: 1.0
Skins OL: 0.0

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz"


and hence the main point, Big Ben > JC


Thank you.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Ben Roethlisberger =

Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2004
Youngest Super Bowl–winning quarterback in NFL history - 23
Pro Bowl in 2007
Second Super Bowl - 25

Roethlisberger currently ranks seventh ALL-TIME in NFL passer rating (89.4) and yards per attempt (7.86) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1500 career attempts

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

It seems to me, based on the stats I posted above ...

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 12:46 PM

You can quote stats to point where there isn't any room left for anybody else to post on this blog (which you seem to be converging towards) and even then you won't be playing with a full deck. Unless you are a Skins O coach, have access to film and a transcript of plays called, you won't understand prexactly what happened on each play and who gets credit (if any) and who gets blamed (if there is blame to assess). If the film and play transcript says that Campbell didn't grade out well in red zone plays then you can pad this with the best stats in the world and it won't change the reality that he didn't meet expectations when the game was on the line.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 3, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

psp, agreed on the playcalling. Watching the 1st Dallas game the other night, I was shocked at how many passes were either at the LOS, or 1-2 yards off the line. And this was when the offense was clicking too....Aikman even commented that he's surprised that Dallas didn't try and jump one of those routes....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

some stats to compare steelers and skins OL's: ratio of sacks to passes thrown ( i have a feeling the steelers passed it a little more)

and:

Rushing average per game vs total rushing yards... obviously if they passed it more, the rushing totals at year end would show higher for washington

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 seriously when you make statements like that you lose all credibility. I mean come on how many Rings does Campbell have again!?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:26 PM

The same number of Rings Dan Marino has. What kind of dumbazz metric is that?

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else here really believe that Jason Campbell is a better QB than Big Ben!!?? Come on show yourselves...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

'...Teams in other divisions have a better chance to make the playoffs. All we can do is make our team the best it can be....'

Bro', that is so true.

We'd have to split with the jints/'boys and sweep philly (again)just to talk smack about the playoffs.

That would make us 4-2 in the toughest division in football.

Maybe we go 6-4 or, better, 7-3 against the rest of the league, especially of the offense gets an additional 10 points a game here or there?

10-6 or 11-5 is doable if the offense improves and the defense keeps being stellar.


Posted by: MistaMoe


We know we can go 5-6, win the last 5 and, most likely, make the playoffs.

That's how you gotta play it in this divvy.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 3, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Thank you.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Youre not welcome. My "main point" was more about the quality of the OL. If you wana just feel good about someone "sorta-kinda" agreeing with your "main point", then be my guest.

Isnt the use of "quotations" to convey sarcasm great?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Alan4: "But I think the case can easily be made that JC17 is a more talented QB than Big Ben, and half those Super Bowl starting QBs. Peyton and Brady are the only 2 I would say are clear-cut better than JC17 at this stage."

Well, hope springs eternal LOL.

What the numbers suggest (and pretty convincingly, considering they don't speak English) is that Jason Campbell is plenty good enough to take a team into the playoffs. He's right about average for playoff quarterbacks this past season.

Now if we could only manage to face a team composed entirely of stats and not actual players...

Jokes aside, Jason is underappreciated. Roethlisberger is even more underappreciated. The talking heads were even nattering on about replacing him with Leftwich when he slumped after the Washington game. Then the guy comes back and leads his team to a Super Bowl victory.

And not that great a team, either. A very good club, definitely, but one with definite weaknesses, such as the O-line.

The first time around, Big Ben had the worst performance (stats-wise) in memory. He then drove his team back to win the game. The second time around, he just flat out won the game in the 4th quarter. Sure, it was a great catch. So was Dwight Clark's, yet it's Joe Montana people remember.

Ben is erratic, frustratingly so. He takes too many sacks and sometimes throws to the wrong guy. Yet at crunch time, who would you rather have throwing the football for your side? Manning and Brady, sure. But who else?

Maybe it's like the old naval story about the admiral who asked his staff which of three ship captains they would choose to ride with in their upcoming battle. The choices were Brave Bill, Brilliant Bob, and Lucky Louie.

You get one guess who they selected.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 3, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Rushing average per game vs total rushing yards... obviously if they passed it more, the rushing totals at year end would show higher for washington

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:34 PM |

Actually you would be wrong the Skins threw it more 510 to 506 and completed more 318 to 303.

The Skins had 17 more carries then the Steelers and the out gained them 2095 to 1690

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

PSP,

Nicely done. Post at April 3, 2009 1:29 PM. Glad to hear that after looking over JC17s areas of efficiency, you think this will be an exciting year for Campbell.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Today's tour of Redskins Park features Jim Zorn with a big old mop. He's cleaning up the mess made over the past 2 days by the Spaghetti Gang, who threw some ugly stuff against a wall, and it didn't stick.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 3, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"tired of stats and excuses, I'd like results" Posted by: TheTruth11
-------------------------------------

Well said, it really is all about results. Reminds me of a story I heard:

A friend was on an Avis rental car bus waiting for them to take him back to the airport after dropping off his car. It's freezing outside and they had been sitting for a while with no new passengers.

Avis has their slogan "We Try Harder" labeled all over ther bus and some guy yells out, "Shut the door and let's go, none of us get paid for trying harder!"

Posted by: isnadd | April 3, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"You can quote stats to point where there isn't any room left for anybody else to post on this blog (which you seem to be converging towards) and even then you won't be playing with a full deck.

Posted by: AntonChigurh"

Hence the phrase "based on the stats I posted above." Nowhere did I put, 'this is the end-all, be-all evaluation taking into account all factors that determines exactly what Campbell is or is not.' Nowhere near it.

Apparently, reading comprehension isn't the greatest of all assets for posters on this blog.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 do you really believe that Campbell is as good as Big Ben?? REALLY? Have you watched Campbell play? He is the check down King the kid has no confidence at all...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

University of South Florida wide receiver Taurus Johnson has been scheduled for private workouts with the Kansas City Chiefs and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, according to a league source.

Nothing, I mean nothing, quite says "quality" quite like the word "Taurus".

Posted by: daggar | April 3, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else here really believe that Jason Campbell is a better QB than Big Ben!!?? Come on show yourselves...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I would have to say BB IS better than JC at this point. But the team around Big Benji really makes the margin of "greatness" smaller than it seems on the surface.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Actually you would be wrong the Skins threw it more 510 to 506 and completed more 318 to 303.

The Skins had 17 more carries then the Steelers and the out gained them 2095 to 1690

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Well thats surprising. I dont really care enough to check your sources, so Ill just take your word for it.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell, JC17 stands in the pocket fearlessly trying to make a play. His recieving corps is average to below average, and his O-line is terrible.

Who was the last successful QB for the Skins? Don't you ever ask yourself why QBs that come here never seem to repeat the success they had elsewhere? Or why Brad Johnson wone a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay after going 8-8 here?

The QB doesn't play this game alone.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"I would have to say BB IS better than JC at this point. But the team around Big Benji really makes the margin of "greatness" smaller than it seems on the surface."

Yea, Big Ben stepped into a great situation. This isn't science class, so we can't see how Campbell would have done in the same situation. Based purely on stats, Big Ben is only slighty better than JC. He wins more games because he's on a better team.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Before everyone starts giving Zorn a star on Hollywood Blvd., I would bet my next mortgage payment that Zorn has told Snyderatto that he can't win with Campbell.

That was evident when Zorn had to accommodate his offensive system and let Campbell play out of the shot-gun; Zorn was not happy about it.

Is Zorn a nice guy? Yes.
Is he a big supporter of Campbells? I say No.

Posted by: isnadd | April 3, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Well thats surprising. I dont really care enough to check your sources, so Ill just take your word for it.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 3, 2009 1:44 PM |

Go down to NFL stats rushing and passing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

"University of South Florida wide receiver Taurus Johnson..."

A guy named Taurus played for the Bulls...how ironical.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Yea, Big Ben stepped into a great situation. This isn't science class, so we can't see how Campbell would have done in the same situation. Based purely on stats, Big Ben is only slighty better than JC. He wins more games because he's on a better team.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who"

lol


I hope you quit saying that when Big Ben retires with AT LEAST 2 rings, maybe 3, 4, ??

and JC retires with most likely 0


but we'll just hear "Oh it's the team, it's the team"


doesn't matter who or what it is. Big Ben > JC for two reasons.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

It's Friday.

Why discuss Football when you discuss porn movies being played at the theater on Univ. of MD Campus? And the senators who snatched it away from them. Did I mention they were discussing these pornographic issues while elementary schools were coming (hehe) in and out (hehe again) of the senate floor?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203816.html

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

When was the last time any other team was interested in any Washington Redskin player?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 12:43 PM

Two weeks ago when San Francisco signed Demetric Evans? Shawn Springs? Before that we lost three guys from our practice squad. Frost. Brooks. Leigh Torrence. And half the league is hoping we'll be foolish enough to cut Tryon.

Oooh, and don't forget about Adam Archuleta (Chicago traded a pick for him) or Brandon Lloyd, who's due for a big year with Cutler throwing at him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Psp23 -

Great post on Campbells stats. Nice to see some meat in these arguments.

Here's a perspective on two of the more troubling stats:

Lack of production in 3 receiver sets probably speaks to how ineffective Thrash is as a receiver. It's like playing 10 against 11 at times.

The big one is 24 of his 38 sacks came from no blitz. That's bad. It probably is a combination of poor O line play, facing 7 defenders in pass protection AND pressure at the same time, and the other teams D keeping a safety deep pretty much all the time to take away our deep ball. That means play-action isn't fooling anybody. When the D can get to the QB regularly with just the front 4, they have a big advantage

Campbell will hold the ball too long at times. Sometimes I think it's because he has no good options open, and sometimes he's just holding it too friggen' long. He does have some responsibility in all this, but it's a team, so there are other factors at play here as well.

Thanks for the numbers. Where did you get them?

Posted by: edvar | April 3, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Using your logic, Truth:

Big Ben > Dan Marino

Big Ben has 2 rings and Marino has none.

If that's your opinion, than we must simply agree to disagree.

It's a dumb metric.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

no one was intereseted in Leigh Torrence


picking him up off waivers is like somebody saying "hey, you can have that penny if you want it". I mean, it's there, and it is a penny, so you might as well pick it up if you got the time and energy.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Coaches adapt to the talent they have. Zorn did a good job of adapting to Campbell after the jints opener.

One of the more subtle points from last year was that Zorn was sending in more and more WCO type plays as the season went on. They weren't as effective. Of course, they were being executed against better defenses with a dinged up OL and hammy strained Moss, so its not clear if the WCO was part of the problem.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 3, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

It will be fun to see him unleashed, if it ever happens.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 1:29 PM

This is why I have such high hopes with Zorn helping JC. The skill+potential is there provided the asinine play calling gets better.

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

There are so many variables involved that it can’t be proven who is “better”, but one way to speculate is to have the 2 players in question switch places a-la “how many yards would Barry Sanders have had behind the Dallas line in the 90’s and Emmitt Smif behind Detroit’s?”. Could the Steelers have won 2 SB’s with Campell as their QB? Would the Skins have been better if Big Ben was their QB? Keep in mind Big Ben was pretty highly touted coming out of college and so far has lived up to the hype with 2 rings. Campbell not so much, but we all know that there is quite a difference in how each franchise is run. The only difference I can think of is the redskins don’t have a Hines Ward possession type receiver (and vicious downfield blocker to boot), and that while both defenses are very good, the Steelers D can win a game for them. Having said all that, I would say that in my opinion Campbell is better from a physical skills standpoint and may prove to be a better QB in the long run, but right now I would say that Big Ben is “better”. Just my opinion though. And I wouldn’t want to trade Campbell away. I think this year he shows us that he is the real deal. Otherwise see-ya.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"Using your logic, Truth:

Big Ben > Dan Marino

Big Ben has 2 rings and Marino has none.

If that's your opinion, than we must simply agree to disagree.

It's a dumb metric.

Posted by: Alan4 "

there will be exceptions

but the fact is, statistically Big Ben > JC

Big Ben's OL statistically is worse than JC's

statistically Big Ben has more rings than JC

using just instincts, Big Ben is better than JC

watching tape, Big Ben is better than JC


it's a no brainer

say we're doing a draft, just me and you. And you go first and you have to choose between JC and Big Ben. If you choose JC, you're not that smart.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

isnadd,

Zorn seems to think he is indeed in favor of Campbell, a la telling Jason Campbell, 'We are in this together.'

Zorn helped Matt Hasselback. Why is it hard to believe he can't do the same for JC? Why do you believe that Zorn doesn't support Campbell?

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 3, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

In the 3WR sets, you've put Thrash or Thomas onto the field. I can see why that didn't work so well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 3, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Truth,

Where's Marino's rings? Judging talent based soley on Championships is moronic. Teams win games, not individuals. Big Ben had the worst performance by a winning QB in Super Bowl history...he's very good, but he's not great. I never said he wasn't better than JC.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 3, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Message to Jason Campbell:

If you want to be the redskins QB beyond next year, you need to STOP trying to please the Head Coach by trying to be the perfect QB. You need to look out for yourself. Here are a few things that will help your cause:
1. Get rid of the ball quicker
2. Take more changes with your throws
3. Trust your receivers to make a play on the ball
4.Throw the ball down field

Being too careful with the ball will have you playing for another team next year, take some chances. Brett Farve is a future Hall of Famer, was he too careful with the ball? No, he took chances, made mistakes but also made a hell of alot plays

Posted by: pennstate1 | April 3, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

The fact that other teams for the most part aren't interested in our players says a couple of things. We keep our genuinely elite players (ST before he died, LL, Cooley, etc.; half due to cap implications, but still), get rid of the overpaid misfits that we trade for, our marginal players that would be 3rd string anywhere else, and our 2nd tier players that we should really re-sign at times (or at least try in the case of Evans). The older very good players we also re-sign until we feel they'd be ready to fall apart upon request (again mostly due to cap implications). It says more about the FO than the talent level on this team.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | April 3, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

What's the difference between last years Falcons and Ravens team, and this years Skins team. The Skins have a top 5 defense, and offensive weapoons like those teams did, so.....trade JC for what you can still get for him (damage is done) and give the ball to Colt. If Atlanta and Baltimore can be successful with rookie QBs, why can't we with a guy who is in his second year with the teamwho runs the same offense he ran in college?

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Truth,
Ben has benefitted from a lot of continuity in his career that JC17 can only dream of. If JC17 started in Pittsburgh and Big Ben started with the Skins, I'm sure you'd see radically different QB development at this point. I suspect Big Ben would have been traded by now of out of the league.

Fact: In 2007, Mike Tomlin became only the third head coach hired by the Steelers since 1969.

Snyder has hired almost doubled that number of HCs in the past 8 years. Brad Johnson left here and won a Super Bowl. Ask yourself why.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

FLOUNDER -

I can usually count on you for stats - when is the official NFL schedule release?

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Here is the real problem with Zorn saying we are in this together....

This does not bode well if true because obviously the front office isnt...

Never good to have the front office and coach on a different page in which direction the team should be headed and it is pretty obvious Zorn has no say

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The way the skins do their contracts makes it hard to trade them -- the accelerated cap hit of large bonuses is not something you can easily deal with... and over the last several years, we've had a lot of big-time contracts from the 2004 FA class that represent the core of our good players. The only real doable trades we can discuss are kids late in their rookie contract -- JC and Rogers being excellent examples.
And so, when it comes to discussing offseason trades, guess whose names get dropped?

Posted by: daggar | April 3, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I am going to absolutely LOVE IT if JCam has a break out year and then tells Cernyder to F off and becomes a champ somewhere else. Hats off to the kid for being professional, but there is no way this gets forgotten when he becomes a free agent.

Posted by: mmmhmmm | April 3, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Mike Vick’s agent says that he “hopes Vick can be back with the NFL by September”……I wonder If Vick’s agent had to give back any of the money he made off of Vick’s big contract…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

For all of you complete and utter MORONS out there, you really should not pray that COLT is our QB this year, there is no way he is ready to play and start for this team. I am so SICK of hearing about Colt Brennan - not that good to warrant this much credit...tell one thing he has done that warrants a start or even a consideration at this point...honestly i am waiting for the evidence that points to Colt being the next big thing?????

IDIOTS!

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya pennstate 1. He hasn't done any of that since he's been here. Probably why they haven't offered him a contract or come out and said those famous words "he's our guy"! Which brings me back to Colt. If you aren't going to keep JC after this year, why not make the change now?

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell JZ was on a short leash any way you look at it. He best bet was to throw his support behind his starting QB, because if the skins finish 8-8 again, JZ won't be the HC after the season.

Posted by: TWISI | April 3, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 your argument is ridiculous!!! Big Ben has already had 2 coaches with different schemes and won a Ring under both!! who cares how many coaches the steelers have had historically!! your same reason for excusing Campbell falls apart when you try and use this logic to justify Bens success

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

For all of you complete and utter MORONS out there, [blah, blah, blah]

IDIOTS!

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:11 PM

mhartz1 is bringing the fire today! Stay out of his way!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I would take a risk on Vick, more about his athletic ability than anything. Give him the ball and let him run like Felix Jones, who cares about passing. I do think he could potentially become a passer, but it is late in the game. I bet you he would make a mean A$$ safety like ST21

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

"Thanks for the numbers. Where did you get them?

Posted by: edvar"

These are espn.com's 2008 season splits:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8440

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

If there was a QB skills competition perhaps Campbell could beat out Big Ben.

If there a a playoff game, I'll take Big Ben every day. He's a gamer, he's smart, and he is a leader!

Posted by: isnadd | April 3, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

twisi agreed...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I am going to absolutely LOVE IT if JCam has a break out year and then tells Cernyder to F off and becomes a champ somewhere else.

Posted by: mmmhmmm | April 3, 2009 2:10 PM

Wow. Did they just let all the patients out of St. Elizabeth's?

Here's another "fan" who hopes that bad things will happen to the Redskins. He wants the QB to get good and then leave. How does that make the team better? Maybe I was wrong to assume you're a fan?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 3, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

because Colt Brennan is NOT ready to play full time in the NFL.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | April 3, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

FLOUNDER -

I can usually count on you for stats - when is the official NFL schedule release?

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 3, 2009 2:05 PM |

I'm not flound, but I know when the release is.....

04/14/09

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 3, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Well since Colt has only played in preseason games last year, and if memory serves, did quite well, I guess I'm limited on his NFL career as anyone would be looking to a first year starter. I suppose the records he set in college running the west coast offense speaks to his ability to at least understand the concept and be somewhat successful. On the other hand, the definition of insanity is what?

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I think Campbell can be the guy, not sure he will be since the FO did a great job isolating him and throwing his confidence to the rats. Been schooled by how many coaches that question his throwing motion, feet, eyes, etc...people can say they are athletes and confidence should not matter, but it is no different than pitchers, confidence rules and gives them the ability to want to try and make those tight throws...point is if he has any left after all of this, I think he will be fine with consistent receivers and coaching.

F Snyder, F Cerrato, F all you Colt maniacs and Hail Skins and their Fans, I am out and have a good weekend!

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

How many people thought Joe flacco was ready??

I am not saying start Colt but if we are 3-5 half way we better see him!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Vick is intriguing. A lot of people feel very strongly about what this guy did, although I doubt many of the (I will call them) extremists are football fans or season ticket holders. This might actually be a case where we see protesters and ticket sales plummeting for the team that he ends up with. It’s definitely a possibility, and I don’t think that there has ever been such a “bad guy” that’s come back into the sports world after committing heinous acts. But then again nobody seemed to give a crap when Tyson started fighting again……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I thought Campbell played pretty well given it was his first year in Zorn's system and all the injuries to the OL and WRs. Zorn and Hasselbeck have both stated it takes two to three years for a QB to master that offense.

If the OL holds; WRs learn to run more precise routes and block down field; and either Thomas or Kelly step up as a #2 WR steps up, then I expect to see improvement in Campbell's game. A second year in the same offense should translate into faster decisions and with healthy players -- more down field opportunities.

Posted by: siris | April 3, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Vick to the CFL or indoor football. The NFL should stand for NO FELON LEAGUE!

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell, Big Ben had a 80.1 QB rating with 17 TDs and 15 INTs. Let's not make him out to be a god. He wasn't exacly a scoring machine under his new coaching staff.

I suspect If JC17 put up those kind of numbers you wouldn't be praising him like you're praising Big Ben. There's a lot more stability within the Steelers organization, and I beleive that's a key to the team's success.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

although I believe Vick will play in the NFL again albeit probably not as a QB good luck to any team willing to take that chance DLHAZE is right it will incur a media circus... What he did transcends the game

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

"Truth,
Ben has benefitted from a lot of continuity in his career that JC17 can only dream of. If JC17 started in Pittsburgh and Big Ben started with the Skins, I'm sure you'd see radically different QB development at this point. I suspect Big Ben would have been traded by now of out of the league.

Fact: In 2007, Mike Tomlin became only the third head coach hired by the Steelers since 1969.

Snyder has hired almost doubled that number of HCs in the past 8 years. Brad Johnson left here and won a Super Bowl. Ask yourself why.

Posted by: Alan4 "

Fact : What happened in 1969 is irrelevant next year.

I don't care who did what with who with the whatchamacallit on the whatever.

Give me results. Big Ben has made it happen. JC hasn't at all.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Mike Vick’s agent says that he “hopes Vick can be back with the NFL by September”……I wonder If Vick’s agent had to give back any of the money he made off of Vick’s big contract…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 2:11 PM

No. The agent's contractual relationship is with Vick not the team. Vick would be liable to the team for any money that was ordered returned, including what he paid his agent out of any signing bonus.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 3, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

great stuff today....start Colt.....vick at safety.....top notch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"Give me results. Big Ben made it happen.

Posted by: TheTruth11"

So did Randle El. What are your feelings on him?

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

He did quite well against scrubs...His west coast offense and version were bastardized versions, not really the same offense. Breaking college records...hmmm didn't Andre Ware and David Klinger play in similar if not the same offense and set records...they both are managing McDonalds and waiting for social security...garbage.

I just dont see the hype on this kid, who btw had elbow surgery and apparently does not show the same zip either.

Bring me facts on why he is worth it...Christ Campbell won in college with 4 different OC, nobody is on their knees getting familiar with his Johnson, but Colt breaks records in HAWAII against garbage teams and they is a Circle jerk on every blog for this guy..retarded

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Beantown I never said put Vick at safety I just think if he returns to the NFL it wont be at QB...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I heard Dan Snyder likes it in the butt.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | April 3, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

You have not read the rules of the uncapped year, which means you should not be posting about it.

If the league goes uncapped players will need 6 years in the league to become FA's not 4, so actually JC17 will still be ours, he won't even be a RFA.

The same goes for CR's if the league goes uncapped.

The uncapped year doesn't stop FA's, there will still be RFA's and URFA's.

Please read upo on a subjest before posting like you know what your talking about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 3, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

YES, YOU STAND CORRECT FLOUNDER21, AFTER GOOGLING, AS YOU PROBABLY DID, ABOUT THE UNCAPPED YEAR, IT APPEARS YOU ARE RIGHT. NOW GET BACK TO WORK, YOU HAVE A ZILLION POSTS. DOESN'T YOUR BOSS KNOW YOU SPEND MORE TIME BLOGGING THAN WORKING?

Posted by: SKIN4LIFE05 | April 3, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I am a fan, but the upper management needs to learn a painful lesson. They have failed miserably to cultivate their young talent. They have gone after big names that play well in other systems, instead of showing patience and commitment to their own players. They have always tried to make short term gambles and wind up with long term loses. To quote Rush Limbaugh, "I hope he (Dan and Vinny) fails." The only way we will be a legitimate perennial playoff team is if we keep young talented players, create a team environment, and be patient. Free agent band-aids aren't the cure. It is a systematic cancer within the organization that comes from the top. Last I checked, football was a team sport. This isn't like basketball where one player changes the course of the organization. Sure you can plug in a Kurt Warner and go to the Super Bowl, but not w/out an Boldin & a Fitzgerald to throw to. Let's not kid ourselves here, Cutler wasn't going to come in and be the savior. He may have been a slight upgrade, but who was going to keep him off his butt? Who was he going to throw to? The management needs to learn that there is no magic bullet. Rebuilding actually takes time and patience. As a life long fan of the Skins I hope that Campbell plays well, leaves, and teaches the top (br)ass an important lesson that they should have had more patience and focused on the most significant areas where upgrades are needed, such as, to quote Smoot "Fat Boys." Anyone remember the Jay Schroeder for Jim Lachey trade? It is no coincidence that we won our Super Bowls during the Hogs era.

Posted by: mmmhmmm | April 3, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I stated he would make a mean safety, built like a truck and all that pent up jail house love would make me wanna hit someone hard over the middle...

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

bench, oh I think its a great idea...vick at safety....book it....he'd make a mean azz safety like ST21.....

you and mhartz....gold stars...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

MHartz I know Colt didnt exactly play top notch competition but he shattered records...

Say what you want but in order to put up those kind of numbers you have to at least know how to throw the ball...

Im not saying start the kid I am saying if we are 3-5 WHY NOT!? Campbell is finished at the end of the season anyway?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Sorry if this has been touched on previously, but I'm starting to think that all this trading JC talk is MAYBE and I mean a BIG MAYBE just Vinny actually being clever/sly and tricking other teams into thinking the Skins want a new QB so they can trade down (provided Sanchez is still on the board) and get a couple extra picks in the draft.

Vinny seems like the sly/trickster type, but I dont think he's smart enough to actually think of that.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | April 3, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

If you watch the NFL network the next time they show the Skins at Dallas, watch Moss get past his man on a fly route down the right side. Moss had to stop and wait to catch the underthrown ball and was tackled where he caught the ball instead of scoring from a basic pass. Watch JC overthrow Moss on a 10 yard tight post with Moss wide open in the end zone. How may balls has he bounced out to CC47? If he was all that he would have the "Big Contract" in hand. Nice guy, not the answer.

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

What if Campbell is a bust this year... what will the excuse be then... no receivers bad O Line obviously that stuff is not going to change

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

bench, thats why you bring in Vick, he'd be the plan B.....you're wise beyond your years.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 3, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

What if Campbell is a bust this year... what will the excuse be then... no receivers bad O Line obviously that stuff is not going to change

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:43 PM

I think it's pretty obvious that if he is a bust after the 09 season he won't be back...

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"What if Campbell is a bust this year... what will the excuse be then."

If he's a "bust", he's gone.

What if Campbell breaks out this year? What will be all of your excuses then?

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

What if Campbell is a bust this year... what will the excuse be then... no receivers bad O Line obviously that stuff is not going to change

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:43 PM

Likely scenario: last year's rooks step up, draft O-line with #13. Campbell, who already gets better every year, makes a big leap in his 2nd year with Zorn.

But IF for some reason JC17 is a bust this year, I will agree there are no excuses.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 3, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Even if the reports are true that the Redskins shopped Campbell (which the team has denied), I don't understand all the hoopla about how this will affect him going forward. Seriously, do any of these people follow any other sport besides football? As the trade deadline approaches in the NBA each year, there are dozens of names floating around and teams trying to make last second trades. The Hornets tried to trade Tyson Chandler and actually made a deal before it fell apart, and so he stayed with his original team and played very well since then (before his latest injury). The wizards have tried shopping Etan Thomas for 3 years now, and while he hasn't been so great on the court when healthy, I don't think the trade attempts have hurt his performance at all (he just sucks).

Bottom line, teams send out feelers all the time to other teams and there are trade rumors every day in the professional sports world surrounding certain players, and for every Jay Cutler who can't stand the rumors there's a hundred other players who handle it professionally (see Jason Campbell).

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by: Barno1 | April 3, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

BenchCamp...I just dont find that much merit in broken records, sure it makes pretty good, but again A. Ware and D. Klingler broke records, where are they now.

Even Wuerfel broke records, his hands could not even hold a football properly, it is not about the records they break in college.

MTAlleyMon...did Campbell have time to throw the ball with perfection, throwing the football is much more than just whipping your arm forward and hoping it finds it way with strength...they have set their feet, etc...i hear the argument now, what about when they are on the run, they still have to square their shoulders and plant...

History...how did Joe Montana do in KC - crappy no line, how about Culpepper in MIA, DET - crappy no line, on and on and on. Carson Palmer was atrocious when his line fell apart and are you going to blame that on him?

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

We DONT have the receivers we all know that and unfortunately even when the FO tries to get some they foul it up... Malcolm Kelly may never actually play in the NFL. Who the hell drafts a kid out of college with bad knees??? and another that had one nice season in college... Why the hell do you draft a tight end when you already have a PROBOWLER at the position!? I dont know if I have ever heard of anyone drafting a punter!!
LOL I mean come on!!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 3, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Hey Bench: If you think JC is done after this year why not take you lumps with your rookie right now? If he can't cut it, then you know where to go in the draft. I just don't remember this great showing by JC. last season. He looked good (real conservative) in the first 1/2 and then went in the tank. I don't think JZ is going to be around after this season anyway if Mike Shanahan or about 5 other coaches want the job. (don't know why they would)

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"If you watch the NFL network the next time they show the Skins at Dallas, watch Moss get past his man on a fly route down the right side. Moss had to stop and wait to catch the underthrown ball and was tackled where he caught the ball instead of scoring from a basic pass. Watch JC overthrow Moss on a 10 yard tight post with Moss wide open in the end zone. How may balls has he bounced out to CC47? If he was all that he would have the "Big Contract" in hand. Nice guy, not the answer."

Shocker. On a day where Campbell goes 20/31, 231 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and leads Washington to a comeback win IN Dallas, you determine he's "not the answer". Absolutely brilliant.

By the way, the "underthrow" to Moss -- listen to the announcers when it happens. Campbell avoids the sack, steps up, and throws on the run. I believe the word was "amazed" when the announcer described his thoughts on how far the throw ended up going.

Posted by: psps23 | April 3, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Thank you psps23...

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I heard Dan Snyder likes it when Vinny licks his taint.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | April 3, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 3, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

mhartz1: actually JC did have time on both of those plays. Look, I'm not saying he's some chump, I'm just wondering how much longer, and back to the question I keep asking: why haven't they given him the big contract? Everyone can doubt Colt or any other rook for that matter. No one knows until they get out there. JC has been out there. I'm sure people wondered about that Brady guy and his rookie back up (not since high school) and look where they both are.

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

you have to at least know how to throw the ball...

Being able to throw the ball well is only ONE of many skills needed to be a successful NFL QB. You can overcome a lot of other weaknesses in college if you can throw well but when get to the next level there's no hiding what you can't do well.

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

you have to at least know how to throw the ball...

Being able to throw the ball well is only ONE of many skills needed to be a successful NFL QB. You can overcome a lot of other weaknesses in college if you can throw well but when get to the next level there's no hiding what you can't do well.

Posted by: will_ga | April 3, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking we should force Snyder to sell the team... we CAN do it. Oh YES we can! Who's with me?

Posted by: noseman4681 | April 3, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

The difference with Brady and that back up guy, Cassell was that they played under a pro system with other incredible athletes against really tough competition. Who has Colt played against?? He might as well played against the Phillipines.

Brady played in a pro system in Michigan against other top tier players and teams.

Cassell did not play in college, but practiced against and learned under some of the best in college.

Both were surrounded by talented coaches and players to learn from in the pros, until they were ready.

Not saying Colt wont ever be good, we dont know, but he is not good enough NOW for all they people that want to see him play now.

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"So did Randle El. What are your feelings on him?

Posted by: psps23 "

didn't realize Randle El was the leader of the team and touched the ball every offensive posession

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 3, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

OK, now this is totally FUBAR-ed. I thought they should have done the deal for Cutler. Not because he's god's gift to the Redskins, but more so because he brings some different thing to the equation than Campbell does. Campbell is a decent QB, but I don't see him taking the Redskins to the next level -- but he is good and has had success ala last year.

The problem is that Snyder and Cerrato are complete morons. It's almost as if they view the NFL as the world's greatest fantasy league -- and seem to only be good for driving up the price of players on the market. Let's face it, Haynesworth is good, but $100 Million? I just don't see it (and didn't they just give Jason Taylor $8 Mil to limp around) -- but I digress. If you wanted the guy, they should have worked a deal that made some sense that Denver was sure to accept (maybe Denver would never have gone for it -- and maybe they did that). Two first round picks, a third, and Kyle Orton for Cutler is totally insane. No one in the NFL today is worth that -- maybe Joe Montana or Troy Aikman in their prime (and I don't think anyone will argue with me on this one), but that doesn't describe Cutler.

Now if Snyder and Cerrato knew that there was even the slightest chance that they might not be able to land Cutler (as appears was the case) they should never have let this leak out and be public. Remember no one knew Chicago was even interested in the trade -- there were not one of the three teams mentioned (it is after all possible to make a deal without letting anyone know).

But they totally screwed this up. Whatever you think of Campbell, he's the guy and he deserves some respect, dignity and confidence. And if these boobs were paying any attention to the Cutler situation they should learned that you don't get involved in these sorts of trades/bids unless you either are determined to make a deal at any price or you can absolutely keep it quiet. That's how you turn a happy QB into a Cutler.

And, as for Cutler, as good as a quarter back as he might be he's definitely not worth it. He'll never be worth it and I don't see a scenario of the people in Chicago seeing this as a success in any way. He'd have to take them to the Super Bowl for the next two years straight -- hey didn't Orton do that at least for one year? You better be real good there Cutler

Posted by: blackmanhl | April 3, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I thought PSPS23 said he was rushed out of the pocket and threw the ball on the run...how far was the pass again?

In week 4 when Campbell is beasting you, everyone in here will be going crazy, remember last year, then he started to fade as the team injuries mounted and his aging line was worn out, we were predictable, run, run, pass...run, run, pass. I dont think it as much about JCamp as it is the aging offensive line, predictable play calling due to limitations in pass coverage and finally class...when the defense could no longer stand up from playing all day they eventually broke and then we lost close ones. We have to build O-lines for these QB's to be great and I want the meanest, grimiest, dirtiest LB that plays with speed and get him to kill people, like LAVAR until he got hurt, stoned and dumb.

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

In the end, all of this debate about Campbell is academic. He WILL be the starting QB this year. Brennan isn't ready. Collins doesn't have the arm and looked terrible last year. There isn't a decent starting QB to be had in free agency, and both Stafford and Sanchez, the top 2 rookie QBs, will be gone by the time the Redskins (who don't have the ammunition to trade up) draft. Zorn has announced that JC is the man. My 2 cents says that if the 'Skins can improve the O-line, Campbell will have a successful year because of a greater knowledge of Zorn's system and the continued development of last year's second-rounders, and the team will make the playoffs. But you know what? If he doesn't succeed, he'll be benched, and won't be resigned after the season. And that's as it should be.

Posted by: rbpalmer | April 3, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

For the record, I hate ARE more than anyone on this team...hands down, JT did not want to steal from us, so he says...ARE is F'N stealing from the Skins.

Let me return punts, my dog does a great job of running in circles and fallling forward for the tennis ball. I hate it him, he is a bum. Doesnt run routes right, hands suck and then again he falls to the ground when he cathes the ball.

Whatever happened to A. Mix is he still on the team... I thought they were all high on him last year in training camp and then buh-bye, never heard another thing about him.

What about Westbrook's brother can he return punts?

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 3, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

psps23: I guess it depends on which play by play you listen to. I'll check it out next time. Speaking of stats: 84.3 QB rating, 23rd in passing, 28th in points per game. etc. These aren't even division contender QB stats, let alone play off QB stats. When the Skins line up in Sept. all true Skins fans will be pulling for the team including especially the QB. One thing for certain, we'll all know how this ends up soon enough. Weekend is here!

Posted by: MTalleyMon | April 3, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"Brad Johnson left here and won a Super Bowl. Ask yourself why.Posted by: Alan4"

Better team?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 3, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

If your head coach is really good, then continuity is a wonderful thing.

If on the other hand he's an idiot...

Posted by: Samson151 | April 3, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I hate that we have two of the biggest STOOGES (Dan and Vinny) running the REDSKINS. I Love the Redskins, but I'm starting to get tired of those two clowns.

Posted by: cheryl8852 | April 3, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

jason is the classiest redskin since sam wyche yes sam wyche, after this debacle i'm wondering what we could get for snyder,little c snyder,tom cruise fed ex stadium,whatever theme park maybe ms tom cruise and a dozen bad qb picks. trade our one for a seasoned ol and 2 2's jc is a very good qb in need of a good ol. dump some of our wr's that frankly suck hire bobby for one year to be our gm (gm under gibbs in the early years) sign jermaine bolt of jamaica from the olympics as a kr/pr . aka bob hayes. move back to rfk fed ex is a jinx. i supported snyder to long. i think russ grimm was a 3rd jacoby even lower get bobby beathards opinion on a year to year basis. If gibbs were able to stay 2 more years we would have won it all. also bring back a leader, shawn springs

Posted by: tammanyhall2109 | April 4, 2009 12:50 AM | Report abuse

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