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Odds, Or Lack Thereof

Got an email from one of those on-line casinos with the odds for the next coach of the Skins. It's notable for what it doesn't say more than what it does:

Gregg Williams - 2/1
The Field - 2/1
Bill Cowher - 5/1
Al Saunders - 5/1
Brian Billick - 6/1
Jason Garrett - 9/1
Mike Singletary - 12/1
Rex Ryan - 12/1
Jim Caldwell - 15/1

So, basically, Vegas has no idea at this point

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 9, 2008; 12:20 PM ET
 
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Comments

Like Vegas would have a clue?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe they have odds on this.

Posted by: showell81 | January 9, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Brian Billick is on the list - so yes, Vegas has no idea.

Odds Billick gets the job and I rip up my season ticket... 1/100

Posted by: kohastings | January 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Vegas odds that Barno will become enraged by this post. 1/1

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

This is one of the reasons I've supported Gibbs through thick and thin.

The Gibbs/Williams/Saunders triumvirate was just starting to gel.

Gibbs-haters you got what you asked for, now Go Fish!

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Those odds are Grimm. No wait, he's not listed

Posted by: scooty7s | January 9, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs haters are losers... He is the best coach that has ever been a part of the sport. Remember that when he is gone.

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe they have odds on this.

Posted by: showell81 | January 9, 2008 12:26 PM

There are odds on everything... Everything!

Posted by: kohastings | January 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Do Wiliiams and Parcells have any history?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

So I'm flying out to vegas on friday. Who should I bet on? I'm thinkin bigger on GW and a small bet on the field. Thoughts...

Posted by: puttinforbird | January 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

if you're really puttinforbird, I'd stick to hustling on the links.

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

The casino MUST have outside info because the odds are too low for Cowher. Going by what everyone is saying, Cowher should be 2/1 as well.

This increases the belief that Williams WILL be the next coach....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Why do people think Grimm would be so great, what are we basing that on? Also why do people believe that he would uphold this thing you like to call "continuity?"

Do people honestly think that a man that gets his first shot as a head coach and has had no part of the teams current make-up will just go in and leave things the way they are??

If I was given a chance I know I would do everything I could to do things the way fell is best in my own individual way.

If Williams takes over he can leave things the way they are because he is part of the way they are. If someone from outside the coaching staff comes in I highly doubt they would try to leave things the way Joe Gibbs had them.

THERE IS NO REPLACING JOE.

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Been too busy to be puttin for anything lately, so I'll stick to football bets for the time being...

Posted by: puttinforbird | January 9, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Vegas Odds:

I ate corn last night for dinner:

2/1 it comes out in my poop today
4/1 it comes out in my poop tomorrow
53/1 it comes out in my poop next week

Posted by: isnadd | January 9, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

One thing to read into is Joe was just very open on the local radio show in saying "Dan and I work well together and I will let him know what I think, and work with him, but in the end it is Dans decision." Plain and simple if Williams is not the head coach here Joe (who has worked very closely with him) did not endorse him. No way Dans idol does not have the biggest say in his decisions

Posted by: csquaredskins | January 9, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Never heard of this Field fella who's 2/1.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 9, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

good article on Coach Joe

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7651110

Posted by: gregskins | January 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Why is Billick's name coming up at all? Is it just geography? I live in the area. Why isn't my name on the list?

Posted by: josh | January 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

4-12, The Field dude is related to the chick who bakes those delicious cookies.

Posted by: PDiddy | January 9, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Or the ever-present "Player to be Named Later" guy.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 9, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

josh, if you describe yourself as an "offensive genius", we can probably get you on the list.

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I'll take tomorrow with the corn. Who do I send the money to?

Posted by: ynotcaruso | January 9, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Lots of names that have no chance.
Caldwell isn't big enough.
Garrett is a Dallas guy and not experienced enough.
Rex Ryan I think will be HC in Baltimore.
and of course Billick will not be the HC for the Redskins.

Posted by: showell81 | January 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

bet the house on gg. both gibbs and snyder truly believe they have a legit nfc shot next year, and dan wouldn't bring in a coach to shake things up (i.e. potentially mess things up).

Posted by: psps23 | January 9, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Diddy--

If it's that Field, then a sure thing that he's as fat as the Ralph Fridgen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 9, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

They could use Fridgen as the field. Dude's not small.

Posted by: puttinforbird | January 9, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was very clear on Redskins Radio that he'll be involved in advising Synder on who the next coach should be. At one point he also stressed that they have great coaches here. Connect the dot yourselves, folks...

Posted by: busterkurosawa | January 9, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Any chance we can get big Ralph?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Connect the dot...





.







________________________________________

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Here is my take on the new coach:

What made Gibbs a legend is that he started as a head coach here and ownership was patient. Gibbs felt ties to this area because this is where he built his empire.

If we bring in a big name, that's all they are and they won't feel any obligation to the community because they already built their name else where. I doubt they will be as driven as they were their first go around.

We need someone who is hungry and can come in and build his name here. Greg Williams now fits that mold because he has been here for 4 years, learned from Gibbs, didn't succeed in Buffalo and is obviously driven and hungry. He should be our prime candidate.

If not him then we should steer clear of the big names like Cower and find someone who can build his career here.

This is the only way to find the next "Gibbs" (if there is such a person - Gibbs is one of a kind)


It's like comparing free-agency to the draft. Where would you rather build from? Same thing with coaches. You don't want someone that has already done it but someone who is really driven to do it.

Posted by: JoeyV | January 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

or "dots"...

Posted by: busterkurosawa | January 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

csquaredskins,
That's what I'm thinking too.

The trouble is without the Gibbs presence, how does someone like Williams become the head coach, the leader of men, and keep everything together.

If you're Al, and you get a call from another team, will you stay or will you go?

Pearls of wisdom from the Gibbs haters?
Hello?
hello?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

They have odds on everything.

It's going to be Williams, unless...

1) A significant percentage of the staff, especially Saunders, won't stay and work for him. If you can't have continuity, Williams makes less sense.

2) There are some personal grudges against Williams by Gibbs or Snyder, and they simply don't want him to inherit the mantle.

3) Dan Snyder is as dumb as his caricature says he is. Which he is not. He is a savvy business man, and he clearly has Gibbs respect. He may be delusional in his assessment of his own football acumen, but that doesn't mean he's going to flush Joe Gibbs team down the toilet and go with some other flavor of the month.


Look, Snyder has NOT been bad with coaches. As I see it, he made ONE bad decision, letting Casserly go instead of Norv.

When he had to replace Norv, he did it with a proven guy - Marty. But everyone could see that was a match made in Hell. The players hated him, too.

So Snyder when with what COULD have been an epic hire: Spurrier. Nobody knew what a huge failure that would turn out to be. It was a risk, but no more so than hiring any other coach.

When it failed, Snyder brought JOE GIBBS back. The ultimate catch for coach for this team.

So tell me why he's so maligned? Given where we were at the time (post-Norv) Marty was a perfectly acceptable pro football coach who turned out to be a bad fit here. Spurrier was a very good hire that surprisingly went very bad. Gibbs was a great hire.

Give Snyder some credit. He's had blunders, but he does seem to be finding his way. This hire will tell that tale even further.

Posted by: jvwright | January 9, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Just set out a buffet, trailblazer.

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

IF Cowher becomes coach there will be a mass exodus of players and coaches... either by choice or otherwise

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

From the previous post...

"One thing to read into is Joe was just very open on the local radio show in saying "Dan and I work well together and I will let him know what I think, and work with him, but in the end it is Dans decision." Plain and simple if Williams is not the head coach here Joe (who has worked very closely with him) did not endorse him. No way Dans idol does not have the biggest say in his decisions

Posted by: csquaredskins | January 9, 2008 12:38 PM"

I couldn't agree more at this point, and if that is the case I would think Joe should know best what a Head Coaches make-up should consist of... If he doesn't endorse Greg then it is probably for the better. And I don't intend that as a knock on Greg, because not all people are cut out to be that type of leader...

Hopefully, Joe guides us the right way as he advises Danny on where we go from here...

Hail to Joe & HTTR!


I personally feel like it will be Greg or Russ Grimm, which would likely mean there would be big turnover esp. on the offensive side.

Posted by: EinVB | January 9, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Sign Williams as your head coach on a 3 year contract with a buy out clause after 1 year. If Williams doesn't work out next year, Cowher will be done with his 2 year vacation and we can pursue him then.

I think if you bring on Cowher now, you disrupt what Gibbs has been trying to do for the last 4 years and are basically saying Let's start over from scratch.

If Williams can't improve on the 9-7 season, take us deeper into the playoffs, improve upon what we have now, then I agree its time to start over with coaching staff, philosophy, etc.

Posted by: kmckinty | January 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

OK I really don't understand this post. Going on Vegas. If Bruno blast this post I may have to agree with him. I really don't see the point of this one.

Posted by: jm220 | January 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Someone brought this point up early but if Double GG does become head coach and Weird Al stays on this spells serious trouble for Campbell as Al is not sold on Campbell... Campbell could be demoted and Al could bring in someone young that he feels more suits his offense... IE someone who can remember more than 25 plays at a time...

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Wait.. If Im the Danny..I know who I will hire..I put a cool 10 mil on my next choice and clean up..Its the ultimate fixed bet!!!!!!

Posted by: Tyler84101 | January 9, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Jasno has a incentive based contract. He's workin on that thread count.

Posted by: puttinforbird | January 9, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

+ 1 to this comment:

Sign Williams as your head coach on a 3 year contract with a buy out clause after 1 year. If Williams doesn't work out next year, Cowher will be done with his 2 year vacation and we can pursue him then.

I think if you bring on Cowher now, you disrupt what Gibbs has been trying to do for the last 4 years and are basically saying Let's start over from scratch.

If Williams can't improve on the 9-7 season, take us deeper into the playoffs, improve upon what we have now, then I agree its time to start over with coaching staff, philosophy, etc.

Posted by: kmckinty | January 9, 2008 01:05 PM

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | January 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Bill Cowher reiterates he's not coaching in 2008

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-01-09-sw-cowher_N.htm

Posted by: nojunk4me | January 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Field, upon being hired to coach the Skins:
"You like me! You really like me!"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I just wish everyone would show the assistant head coach-defense and should-be next head coach of the Redskins the respect he deserves and spell his freakin' name correctly.

It's "Manboobs" with no space in the middle.

Come on, people.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Au contraire, there's lots of space in the middle!

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Yikes, those odds on Billick are alot better than they I'd like to see. 1,000,000:1 would be more to my liking.

Posted by: mtnskinsfan | January 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I'm trying to get into the head coach speculation game, but it's just too damn hard predicting what Daniel is up to, what criteria he'll apply, etc.

Too numb over Gibbs' leaving to get all riled up about his successor. We'll have a whole offseason, and of course the games themselves, when we're playing games again, to deal with that choice.

I'm content to bask in the glow of one of the most incredible months in the history of this team, December 2007. From tragedy to triumph, and like such as. The crowning achievement in Coach Joe's career. Amazing.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

The Billick thing is a joke, right? That has to be a joke. A sick, sick joke.


"I hope there's nobody sitting next to me. See, I always travel first-class, and I, uh, take both seats up. I'm in bridge work, bridge construction. These foldouts take a tremendous amount of space up, and I need space."
"I'm afraid there is someone sitting next to you."
"Ah, for God, dog dog. Who is it, Mr. Singleingleington?"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Dammint, Nate, there are Mock drafts Up Here that urgently require our attention! There's no time to take time at a time like this!

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

If anyone needs a laugh read this:

http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/3186421

NOTHING SAYS MORE FOR HOW SCARED THE BOYS FANS ARE

1. THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SKINS GAME TO WIN

2. IN THEIR STEAD I WILL SUPPORT THE GMEN (or anyone else besides the boys and hawks.)

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

The comments, not the article.

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

If you talk to any Cowboys fan they will admit that their defensive backfield is a problem yet somehow 3 of the 4 starters mad ethe probowl???

TAKE THE FAN VOTE AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Having spent a couple of days in the NYC, I have moved the Jints down my ranked preference to win the title among the teams still in the tournament.

Yes, they're in our division, and on some level I want our division to hold the title again, but being around those people reminded me that it wouldn't be worth it, from an insufferability standpoint.

Who I now want to win the title, most to least:
1. Green Bay
2. Jacksonville
3. San Diego
4. Indianapolis
5. New Jersey
F. Seattle
Least: Cowboys, Patriots

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

What about 12/1 odds that Snyder puts $100,000,000 on Caldwell then hires him just so that he can make all that money?

Posted by: iontop227 | January 9, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

kmckinty has a really good idea that would probably be palatable for Snyder.

No way Grilliams gets hired by Parcells, either.

Posted by: PBL4 | January 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Teams that I hope their cheater stadium burn to the ground with them in it:

Seahawks

Teams that I hope their stadium burn to the ground with them in it:

Dallas

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

What do you need me to tell you about this whole Dolphins thing? I can set up an Intervention if needed...

Posted by: daggar | January 9, 2008 12:05 PM

That's just me being stubborn Cload. If I've accepted the trials an tribulations of fin-fandom over the last 23 years I have no good reason to quit now. Although as I've been calling out Barno, I should probably say something erudite-sounding about "motes and beams" at this point too.

sams3, sorry if I've sounded grumpier, I'm really not; I'll try to buff my generally free-form and light-hearted demeanour back to a higher sheen. I'm right on it!

cL, I'd like to see Richard Simmons do one of those "Def Comedy Jam" shows, particularly if they armed the audience with rotten fruit beforehand!

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 01:40 PM

There is SOME relationship between Parcell's and Grilliams; he tried to hire him as a d-coord a few years back, so he obviously knows him and rates him highly. That said, I don't think he's a fit for Miami.

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Parcells/Grilliams? Man that is a SUUUUhWeeet set o' manboobage

Posted by: csquaredskins | January 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

If Brian Billick becomes the coach, I think I will boycott the Skins until he's fired. I hate the Ravens and Brian Billick. Baltimore is DC's beeeyatch

Posted by: 96_MJOHNSON | January 9, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

If Brian Billick becomes the coach, I think I will boycott the Skins until he's fired. I hate the Ravens and Brian Billick. Baltimore is DC's beeeyatch

Posted by: 96_MJOHNSON | January 9, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I need to post that twice to get my point across

Posted by: 96_MJOHNSON | January 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I have been a skins fan all my life but... I can honestly say I would have a VERY hard time rooting for a Brian D*cklick Skins team

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, welcome back. As a person who is change-averse in general, I never really cottoned to the Toddcoat thing, but I loved the sentiment.

One silver lining for your mercifully concluded season: leading the league in interventions.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Considering his age it is unreal the set of tatters that Gregg has. He is a decently young man to have those flapjacks.

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I think Miami made the right choice going after Parcells... He knows how to build teams. I am gonna go out on a limb here and predict that they have a better record next year

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

trailblazer658,

I know it seems like the obvious choice lol, but what if they actually got worse...?

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

What are the chances we can get Colt Brennan as a plan B? Just in case Campbell doesnt light the world on fire next season. All the mock drafts I have looked at dont even have him getting drafted...We might not even have to use a pick on him sign him as an undrafted free agent

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Thankyou Nate, it's good to be 'back', although I did enjoy all the Todd-related banter too.

Who'd have thought when all that good natured back-and-forth was going between our two sides before the first game of the season that both teams would be looking at a regime-change in January?

In fact who'd a thunk it even after that game?

Plus ca change! *that's for Mark (from the Future)*

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

I rooted for Norv Turner, a freakin' Cowboy coach. I rooted for Terry Robinsky, who shoulda had a better chance. I rooted for Schottenheimer, a very hard guy to warm up to and a perennial also-ran (though a great coach). I threw logic out the window and rooted for Spurrier until it was clear his flying circus was never going to materialize up here.

My point: I will root for the next guy, whoever gets hired.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

i miss vinny telling us "don't worry we have a plan".

Posted by: dealer | January 9, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that very small vote of support for my team trailblazer! :)

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

dealer, the new mantra is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" right?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

dealer, we have "Mr." Snyder telling us if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm pretty sure we've heard enough nonsensical axioms out of the brain trust for the coming month.

Posted by: PDiddy | January 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Field, upon being hired to coach the Skins:
"You like me! You really like me!"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 01:14 PM

Jerk. Beat me to it. ;)

Posted by: freakzilla | January 9, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Snyder has 2 basic choices. If he hires from inside, ie GG, he doesn't blow up a team that has a unique bonding. And perhaps he gets a good coach who is a lot better than the he was 5 years ago.

Or Snyder goes outside and blows it up ... pretty much all the coaches are gone. Seems Snyder can go that direction anytime he wants. He can do that now or a year from now or two years from now, etc.

My sense is the trying GG is worth the risk. You can't blow this thing up and then put it back together if that doesn't work. But hiring GG does keep things together, to some degree. If GG fails, then you blow it up and get Cowher.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm still incredulous at that statement. I mean, COME ON!

Posted by: PDiddy | January 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"I hope there's nobody sitting next to me. See, I always travel first-class, and I, uh, take both seats up. I'm in bridge work, bridge construction. These foldouts take a tremendous amount of space up, and I need space."
"I'm afraid there is someone sitting next to you."
"Ah, for God, dog dog. Who is it, Mr. Singleingleington?"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 01:23 PM

Fletch, yes?

Posted by: freakzilla | January 9, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, question for you. I know Shula is one of the greatest ever. By the end though, he hadn't produced a Super Bowl champ in like 20 years.........what was the stance from the fans? Were they screaming for a new HC at the time? Did he go out because he really wanted to or because his time was up? I know many wanted to see Jimmy Johnson as the HC. Just curious....sort of relates here....

Posted by: dlhaze | January 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

If Gregg gets the job I vote that we change his nickname to flapjacks.

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

No comments on Colt Brennan? I am seriously shocked nobody is even giving this guy a shot. I mean come on he was undefeated as a senior. Kinda reminds me of someone else...

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

LMGO @ "flapjacks" sams3... classic.

Posted by: dick | January 9, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

dick,

It was that or tatters...

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I think Colt is currently slated to go in the 2nd round. I have a feeling that he is a guy who could slide a lot if he has a bad combine. He is definately behind Brohm, Ryan & Woodson at least. That said, I am a Colt fan.

Posted by: curtmcgurt | January 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I know Shula is one of the greatest ever. By the end though, he hadn't produced a Super Bowl champ in like 20 years.........what was the stance from the fans? Were they screaming for a new HC at the time?

Posted by: dlhaze | January 9, 2008 02:25 PM

It was nearer 25 years by the end dl... As you would expect it seemed to cut both ways. One camp was "he's earned the right to whenever HE wants to" and the other was "we're squandering the later years of a great quarterback and we need to rebuild NOW". I must admit I was in the former camp, but that is a luxury that most sports teams can't afford.

As it turned out although he was certainly 'encouraged' to give up we still allowed him to consult on the succession, and look where that got us. JJ could have worked out for us, but he was never truly given free reign to do the surgery the team needed. Too many sacred cows/interference being run by the Don and all that, such as like.

There are strong parallels here, the ongoing presence of Gibbs being the most important.

Try to be objective for a moment guys (not easy with something you love). Do you REALLY believe the 2007/8 Redskins are on the cusp of being a championship team? Are they just a couple of pieces away? If they are more than just a couple, you have to face the fact that by the time you've acquired the right pieces something else might be breaking.

If you can put your hand on your heart and say that you are close, then pay Williams and Saunders whatever it takes to keep them and their staff here. If you're not that close, then as hard as it would be to do it, you have to blow it up because you're going to end up doing it anyway.

New England don't blow their team up all at once because they have a 'system' they stick to and get rid of whatever doesn't fit every season. I'm not sure any other team has a system (with the possible exception of the Colts and Jaguars) the same way, so we all "make do and mend" every year and that's why we all have the boom and bust cycle of contending to win it all.

In the EPL, Ferguson and Wenger have accomplished the same thing; their playing personnel changes over time - with players ruthlessly moved on when their time has come - but the way their teams play, and the standard they play at, never changes.

Sorry, a long answer.

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Did Colt shred any good teams?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan, run and shoot.
Danny Woeful, fun 'n gun.

Just sayin'...

Posted by: 4-12 | January 9, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I may repeating what has already been said but I don't have time to read two days worth of posts. My bet is still on Williams even in light of yesterday's presser. Snyder's no fool like Matt Millen. In light of the Rooney Rule, he has to interview minority candidates and it can't be seen as a sham process because he has already chosen a head coach.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Diddy, zilla, great minds... or maybe we're all too much in synch up here!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I am growing more and more convinced that Dan will make the dumbest possible decision when hiring a head coach. I'm not sure what it will be, but it will be the dumbest one possible.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 9, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Coat,
Yeah, but systems require continuity perhaps more so than football teams.

The Skins are a few good players from being contenders, with a shot at the playoffs every year.

We're not a few good players from being a dominant team, because we lack the systems.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

We also lack Tom Brady or Peyton Manning

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 9, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

yea or nay?

Sign Brennan as an undrafted free agent as plan B.. you can say his division sucks all day long but look at the stats! In order to pile up those kinds of numbers you still have to make the throws..

If he slides and nobody picks him up whats the harm.. not even a draft pick? league minimum and a viable backup plan so...

yea or nay?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | January 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

We do not lack a Porous Offensive Line.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

daggar,

Unfortunately, I can't call my self an offensive genius. BUT... I can find just as many awful QBs as Billick put on the field. Colt Brennan comes to mind. Or me. Can I be head coach and play quarterback?

Don't spread this around, but if I'm not hired, I hear Bum Phillips is available. Let's keep this quiet so nobody else tries to steal him away.

Dang, just checked the Vegas odds. Bum is a 1/2 favorite now.

Posted by: josh | January 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Todd Collins can't play forever...or maybe he can with so few miles.

Palmer wasn't the answer and neither was Bramlet, C. (remember him?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Sheesh, I'm leave for the day, have a conference in the morning, and 2.5 hours its takes me to catch up to you guys. I'm hoping you all catch up after stepping away.

The key post was a couple/few threads ago from OldSchool. I don't exactly remember what he said, but here is what I was thinking after I kept reading and his sank in:

- As of the time St. Joe left the Park, Skins were in good shape roster-wise. The only starters (as of the last game) who are not signed through next season are The Todd and Rock. This is a good thing.

- The players (at least the ones talking) are circling wagons around Grilliams. Not exactly sure about what Jerry Gray thought, but he can be assumed to be pro-Gregg.

- Continuity IS important (and not a mirage) BECAUSE of the very expensive, but solid foundation that the team built under St. Joe. Stay with me here.

- The Skins are $20M over the cap. That means a fair number of players need to (1) re-structure, (2) re-negotiate and/or (3) get cut. If the players are disrespected (i.e., if Grilliams is not treated fairly and with dignity), then the players actually hold enough cards that they can mutiny by holding out on re-structuring and/or re-negotiating. If cuts are forced, then the dead cap space becomes CRUSHING. The next, post-mutiny coach (and the franchise) is screwed for a few seasons.

The Owner and the organization have shown that they are masters and can handle the cap ... when everyone plays nice. The amount in excess of the cap right now, however, is unprecedented.

In Seinfeldian terms, continuity has hand.

Posted by: dcsween | January 9, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line: The Skins business model depends on continuity in morale.

Posted by: dcsween | January 9, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

The QB before him at Hawaii (Tommy Chong?) set all kinds of records, and he's not exactly tearing up the NFL. Or even in the NFL.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 9, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Live by the wallet, die by the wallet.

Posted by: dcsween | January 9, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

timmy chang - hawaii qb
tommy chong - maui wowi

Posted by: puttinforbird | January 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Coat,
Yeah, but systems require continuity perhaps more so than football teams.

The Skins are a few good players from being contenders, with a shot at the playoffs every year.

We're not a few good players from being a dominant team, because we lack the systems.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 02:53 PM

Agreed stumped, but systems breed continuity. I humbly suggest that Gibbs 1.0 absolutely WAS a system; he was able to slot new pieces in as parts broke, and the players bought into that because they saw it was successful. Gibbs 2.0 was unable to recreate that because players' contracts (and therefore their loyalty) are structured very differently now, you can't turn them over fast enough if they don't "believe" now, see Receiver, The, and that brings the whole 'syetem' approach into question.

If you can find a system it becomes self-reinforcing, with good players wanting to be part of it because they see it works, see Bialystock, Bill.

Posted by: Redcoat | January 9, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

For continuity to work, it doesn't require Grilliams to be head coach ... but it probably will require a fair amount more than a single million dollar more in order for him to feel like he is treated fairly and with dignity if they bring in someone from the outside.

If they do bring in someone from outside the organization, then that dude has to be a replacement to Joe Gibbs, an offensive coach. [Note: No Billick for me either, thank you.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 9, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

sween,
nice analysis. That's why I hang out here.

(Oh, and for stuff like flapjacks.)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 9, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Also, Vegas is not paying attention. The Governor (and by proxy, AMMTS) has spoken to this slate ... the odds on Gruden are missing. I think the odds on Gruden leaving Tampa are better than 2/1.

Posted by: dcsween | January 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Continuity depends completely on whether or not someone milks ole' flapjacks or not.

Someone needs to milk em'

Posted by: sams3 | January 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

beep. beep.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 9, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

No offense - but 'splain to me why we'd want a QB (Colt Brennan) who ended up being Georgia's b!tch in the Sugar Bowl? I don't deny that Brennan had a great season, but his undefeated Hawai'i team looked like the junior varsity compared to the Dawgs. As I recall, he was very near tears by the end of the game. Between him and Campbell, I think I'd rather have Campbell - ice water in his veins and all. One of the issues with the Skins is that we are far too impatient. I know Campbell has been our starter for a season and a half now, but that's still not all that long comparatively. Can we at least give him 8 more games before appointing his successor? As I recall, Denver once had this QB who was pretty mediocre his first couple of years, and then went on to win back to back Super Bowls. Some bloke named Elway.

Posted by: jaradel | January 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Again, the beat reporter shows he has no idea what he is talking about. Vegas odds mean one thing and one thing only: gamblers will bet on the spread provided. Vegas odds are NOT predictions in any way, shape, or form.

When you see a team is favored by 3 points, Vegas is not predicting that said team will win by 3, they are merely saying that half of all money gambled on one side of that line, and half will be gambled on the other. When a line moves, it's because more money has been bet on one side.

Vegas is not in the predicting business. They are in the money making business. The make their money on the "juice," which is usually 10% of the bet. Thus, their hope is that they break even on the amount of money bet on each side of the line, and therefore they ideally take home 10% with each bet.

The reason Brian Billick's name is on this list has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he may or may not become the next head coach of the skins. It simply means the oddsmakers believe some gamblers out there will bet on Billick. Nothing more, nothing less.

I love how this beat reporter doesn't even understand the most basic aspects of the issues he is assigned to cover...

Posted by: Barno1 | January 9, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Jason Garrett should not even be on the list. Jason is a CowGIRL, and is therefore tainted goods. Remember how "GET ON MY NERVES TURNER" worked out! Norv was another tainted CowGIRL!

Posted by: jackw7131 | January 9, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Vegas Odds:

I ate corn last night for dinner:

2/1 it comes out in my poop today
4/1 it comes out in my poop tomorrow
53/1 it comes out in my poop next week
------------------------------------------

Update: Corn positively identified at 10:22am eastern time today so 4/1 wins.. I'm having it notarized.

Posted by: isnadd | January 10, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

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