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Shanahan says Lichtensteiger is worthy of playing time

The Redskins' offensive line struggled in pass protection during the first half of the season, and left guard Kory Lichtensteiger appeared to be among the weakest links.

Since replacing Derrick Dockery in the starting lineup, Lichtensteiger often has seemed ineffective in the team's protection schemes. But to hear Coach Mike Shanahan tell it, Lichtensteiger has graded out well.

"Kory's been playing well, very well," Shanahan said. "If Dock was the best player, he'd been in there.

"If Kory was not better than Dock, then he wouldn't be in there. Very simple. We're going to play the best players. It's based on film. You evaluate everything."

By Jason Reid  | November 2, 2010; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  Offensive line  
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Next: Report: Shanahan unhappy with McNabb practice habits

Comments

"Shanahan says Lichtensteiger is worthy of playing time as a backup, not with the FIRST team"

There...fixed it for ya...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:14 AM | Report abuse

Two years from now when MS & KS have the players they need the Skins will be fine. Did anyone really expect more in one year with the train wreck they inherited? The entire team needs upgrading and yet they play with more heart each week than I remember in years.
Give it time, it took years to get this bad will take a couple more to acquire the talent needed to win big. Patience people.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | November 2, 2010 6:17 AM | Report abuse

The entire team needs upgrading and yet they play with more heart each week than I remember in years.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | November 2, 2010 6:17 AM


While I agree with that, this regime just set us back by dealing two quality picks to the Eagles for a guy it took only a couple months for them to sour on. Instead of shoring up the QB position for the next 3-5 years, they just got an expensive stopgap. If McNabb is one and done, that sets us back dramatically.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:21 AM | Report abuse

brown,

yes if Mcnabb doesn't pan out that's true. I'm not convinced of that. I think he will get better as his teams talent does and with more experience in KS system.
Any relationship will have its ups and downs, MS and McNabb will be fine watch and see. They'll be hugging it out with the first playoff win in 2011. NFC championship in 2012,and then who knows?

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | November 2, 2010 6:26 AM | Report abuse

If McNabb is one and done, that sets us back dramatically.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:21 AM

Yes, with 20-20 hindsight. But, there are still eight more games and both sides need to make this work. If Donovan doesn't step up here, he's not getting much of a contract anywhere else. So, let's wait eight more weeks to see whether he's one-and-done or the future.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 2, 2010 6:28 AM | Report abuse

I don't know...seems to me there's going to need to be a HUGE adjustment in the way McNabb practices and prepares for games if this is gonna work. Like it or not, this is Shanahan's show and it's either his way or the highway. So McNabb has to do whatever he has to to make sure he's in the coach's good graces.

I just hope Shanahan doesn't lose the locker room trying to make an example of the team's most important offensive player.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:32 AM | Report abuse

Finally a reasonable discussion, man are there some dumb a$$ people on this site.

This teams plays hard you don't do that if you don't respect the coach.

The team he inherited was a joke, he has already turned that around.

The Mcnabb thing will work it self out anybody can go back and say it was a bad move, but if Mcnabb comes out the second half of the season and takes this team to the playoffs what then.

Some of the morons on here thought this was going to be fixed in one year, you don't fix 10 years of bad in one off season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 6:39 AM | Report abuse

The locker room is fine trust me these players know that Shanny is the boss and if they don't like it they can go.

Not one of them as done jack sh_t for the Skins anyway. Players coming off a 4-12 year need to realize that if they don't shape up and play better there next job will be at McDonalds.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 6:44 AM | Report abuse

Some of the morons on here thought this was going to be fixed in one year, you don't fix 10 years of bad in one off season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 6:39 AM


Exactly.

But right now fans are looking for something we haven't had since Marty left: hope. And with the proven tandem (at least individually) of Shanahan and McNabb, we had our most realistic form of hope in years.

If that relationship is fractured (or worse), then that hurts our chances of a quick turnaround (quick as in 2-3 years...not the overnight that some of our more delusional friends up here expect).

So it's not that 2010 is wrecked (and I'm not willing to even say that at this point)...it's that we'll possibly be back at Square 1 sans 2 draft picks in the spring.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:51 AM | Report abuse

I dont get it.

Lickedinsideher is playing good football.

WHAT!?!?

Shananahan aint "sending no message." He brain-farted and he's not man enough to admit it. Period.

NOBODY can expect McNabb to "step it up" behind this disaster of an Offensive Line.

Would someone please explain to all the morons why an Offensive Line is important! Put anybody, Peyton Manning, ANYBODY, behind our line and you're looking at Jason Campbell.

At least McNabb can run for his life. Sorry he doesn't run for his life and make perfect decisions 100% of the time. Who does?!

Shanny screwed the pooch. You all can say what you want, but this McNabb benching was ID-I-O-TIC. No excuse for it. Cardio, terminology, whatever, man, you are LYING. AGAIN!

The message that was sent was, "I'm an idiot and I'm your head coach."

How about running the ball now and then?!
That might help, huh?

MAN! Our O Line SUCKS!
Why can't he just say THAT?!

"Our O Line really really sucks, and that's a huge problem"

Cardio!

He must think we're dumber than a bus full of Denver Coloradians!

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 2, 2010 6:54 AM | Report abuse

So it's not that 2010 is wrecked (and I'm not willing to even say that at this point)...it's that we'll possibly be back at Square 1 sans 2 draft picks in the spring.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:51 AM |

That is a possibility and we can deal with it if it happens.

Theres also a possibility that Mcnabb plays great this team goes to the playoffs and everything is fine.

I take the 4-4 record with the crap they had to start with and believe that this team will be 8-8 or better. Anyone predicting a better record then 8-8 before the season was in the middle of a wet dream.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 6:55 AM | Report abuse

Some interesting stuff from John Czarnecki on Foxsports.com:

What to make of McNabb benching

There are many theories for such a McNabb benching. Here are my top five:

Who’s the Boss: Albert Haynesworth can tell McNabb that it’s Mike Shanahan. The new Redskins coach made Haynesworth accept his rules and conditions, but it took a while for the defender to oblige. Shanahan has won Super Bowls and knows the game, but even in the end of the John Elway era in Denver the two didn’t see eye-to-eye on everything. Elway, who had a bad hamstring in his final season, was ordered to run bootlegs even though it hurt him to do it. Elway could have kept playing like Favre does today, but he decided to retire on top, hoisting the Lombardi Trophy. He was tired of the friction. McNabb now knows who’s the boss!

New Money: Everyone knows that owner Daniel Snyder hasn’t offered McNabb a mega contract to play next season. McNabb is working under the terms of a $24.5 million, two-year extension he received in Philadelphia in 2009. The Eagles basically dumped him in Snyder’s lap because he was unwilling to negotiate a long-term extension in Philadelphia, one that Eagles’ management preferred. McNabb drove a hard bargain, believing he deserves to be paid top dollar like the Mannings and the Tom Bradys of the world. Snyder and Shanahan’s response: give us a break!

Attitude: Although he has been in Washington since before the draft, McNabb has never seemed comfortable in Kyle Shanahan’s offense. Mike’s son, Kyle, is the offensive coordinator and if Snyder obliges, is considered the head coach in waiting. Granted, it is difficult for any quarterback who has been in one system (Andy Reid’s for 11 seasons) to adjust to different nomenclature and offensive nuances. But for some reason, McNabb has struggled to be on the same page with his receivers and the Shanahan offensive mindset. None of this makes sense, like saying that Grossman has a better grasp of his two-minute offense. We’re not talking about taking an exam here; we’re talking about being able to execute under extreme pressure. And the Lions’ defensive line was doing that all day long. The other explanation is that McNabb prefers to play and throw his way.

The Future: McNabb knows that another team will want him and possibly pay him. Yes, he will be 34 at the end of this month, but he’s well aware that his the Arizona Cardinals have a disaster at quarterback that is wasting too much (Larry Fitzgerald) offensive talent. Also, his good friend Brad Childress will want a new quarterback next season if he’s still coaching the Minnesota Vikings. Nothing against Santana Moss and Joey Galloway, but Percy Harvin, Randy Moss and a healthy Sidney Rice look a tad better. McNabb’s bottom line is that there appears to be friendlier options on the horizon. If the Redskins decide to place the franchise tag ($15 million next season) on him, McNabb can always pout until he’s dealt out of town. Imagine that!

more...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:57 AM | Report abuse

thinker,

The O-Line sucked before Shanny got here and with the limited picks he had how could he have fixed it.

He used the top pick on the best LT.

Your turn what would you have done to fix it?

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Clearly this is a work in progress and it's going to take a couple of years to get right. I just wonder if Shanahan sees it that way. I assume he does now. If so, great we can move along to the more important question of getting the right people here to win and win consistently. Is Shanahan any good at that? What about Allen? Definitely mixed results, some swear he both are bad at evaluating players. I guess we're going to find out.

In my view, we have to pull for Shanny to get this right because the alternative is Dan Snyder gettin' in the mix again. And Dan-O is dumb as a stump.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 2, 2010 7:06 AM | Report abuse

Theres also a possibility that Mcnabb plays great this team goes to the playoffs and everything is fine.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 6:55 AM


Possible...just not likely.

I had us going 8-8 at the beginning of the year, so that's why I don't see the sky falling like some others up here. Just reading the stuff about this McNabb/Shanahan rift makes me uneasy, though.

But after reading that Czarnecki column, it looks like Shanahan and Elway had issues too. But like McNabb and Reid, they had history together to fall back on--which McNabb and Shanahan don't. I hope they can work it out but it doesn't look as good as it did a few weeks ago.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

All GM's and coaches get some picks/FA's right and miss on others. Takes time. Still this team needs help everywhere.

O Line-a given

WR-are you kidding?

rb's- like Torain, but who else

D-line help

LB's all exept Orakpo imo are expendable

FS-

with that much needed it takes time,,with some luck and the right FA aquisitions it can happen in a coouple of years.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | November 2, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

I just hope Shanahan doesn't lose the locker room trying to make an example of the team's most important offensive player.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 6:32 AM

You mean the way that Zorn lost the team last year when he made an example of Portis?

Frankly, I hope he does lose some of the team. But mostly guys don't like to see other players getting special treatment. IF Donovan's been riding with his feet up in practice, then he will win the locker room, not lose it.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 2, 2010 7:17 AM | Report abuse

forgot to post the rest of Czarnecki:

Silly Connection: By now, everyone in Washington knows that the Shanahans are Gator fans. When Pat Bowlen was squeezing him on a contract extension, Mike almost bolted for the U. of Florida to work with friend Jeremy Foley. Grossman, the backup bum, is a Gator. He was a star there under Steve Spurrier, who never really taught him how to read defenses. Kyle coached Grossman with the Houston Texans last season, so he apparently knows the kid’s playbook better than McNabb. But knowing it and executing it aren’t necessarily connected. The decision to throw Grossman into the fray was akin to raising a white flag of surrender.

The bottom line in all this is that the players in Washington, who are preparing for a bye weekend, know that there is a crack in the coach-quarterback foundation. Benching a lineman and sitting a starting quarterback are two different things. McNabb has always liked to play with a gut feel out there, and Reid accommodated him in Philadelphia at times.

But with the Shanahans, it’s more about functioning within THEIR system than what the quarterback thinks. If this was a rocky quarterback-coach marriage before Sunday, it’s gotten a lot worse, no matter what the two parties say publicly. The two sides may have to seek counseling.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 7:19 AM | Report abuse

thinker,

The O-Line sucked before Shanny got here and with the limited picks he had how could he have fixed it.

He used the top pick on the best LT.

Your turn what would you have done to fix it?

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:00 AM |

I didn't say he should "FIX" anything. I am suggesting that he is a bald faced LIAR and he should stop F'king up things that aren't broken and creating more problems.

I would have let McNabb go out and win or lose the game. I might have yelled at him on the sideline and said something to the effect of, "What the F are you doing? Get your ass in gear, man!"

Your turn...

after benching McNabb, what do you do to fix it?

Go out and tell 2 more lies pointing to the lack of conditioning or lack of mental acuity of your team's leader? Or something else?

I have no problem with the O Line sucking. Cory Lickedinstein, notwithstanding. Docker REALLY looked better. I would appreciate Mr. TanFaceToughGuy to tell it like it is, namely: Casy RockBack stinks. Lickedenstein stinks. Galloway stinks. Heyer stinks. Artis Hicks stinks.

Something to that effect. You know... the truth!

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 2, 2010 7:20 AM | Report abuse

Your turn...

after benching McNabb, what do you do to fix it?

Go out and tell 2 more lies pointing to the lack of conditioning or lack of mental acuity of your team's leader? Or something else?

I have no problem with the O Line sucking. Cory Lickedinstein, notwithstanding. Docker REALLY looked better. I would appreciate Mr. TanFaceToughGuy to tell it like it is, namely: Casy RockBack stinks. Lickedenstein stinks. Galloway stinks. Heyer stinks. Artis Hicks stinks.

Something to that effect. You know... the truth!

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 2, 2010 7:20 AM |

I do nothing I put McNabb back in and let him play, if Mcnabb is the pro that I know he is he will come out against Philly and have a better game.

The rest of your argument all points to a coach telling the media and the fans the truth.

You find me one coach in the NFL who tells the media the truth besides Zorn and maybe Dungy back in the day and then I might agree with you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:27 AM | Report abuse

You mean the way that Zorn lost the team last year when he made an example of Portis?

Frankly, I hope he does lose some of the team. But mostly guys don't like to see other players getting special treatment. IF Donovan's been riding with his feet up in practice, then he will win the locker room, not lose it.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 2, 2010 7:17 AM


That's apples and mangos, dude...you're talking about a guy that publicly undermined the coach (which is a no-no, regardless of how inept he is) vs. a guy who has been represented his team well and said all the right things publicly. Two very different deals. It doesn't sound to me like McNabb isn't working hard...just not putting in the quality of work that the Shanahans want.

I'm kinda torn because I can see both sides of the argument...Shanahan wants more work and less play and McNabb wants to do what's worked well for him the last 11 years. Hopefully, there's an adequate compromise of some sort and not another drawn out saga like we had with AH...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 7:29 AM | Report abuse


Your turn what would you have done to fix it?

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:00 AM |

I would had kept ALL draft picks and not trade them to WIN NOW.

Again, the trades for McNabb and Brown were mistakes, coming in off the street and making a splash is all allen and shanahan did. what they accomplished with those trades was to set back any rebuild.

think about it, 2 picks that could have been o-line positions filled by youth and not an injured tackle and left over starters that should be back-ups at best.

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 7:35 AM | Report abuse

The WaPo is just full of surprises this morning. I was shocked to read that Mike Shanahan thinks he's made the right decision on Lichtensteiger/Dockery. (I thought Shanahan felt like Lichtensteiger was merely playing "well". If I hadn't read this thread, I wouldn't know that he was actually playing "very well".) I was then totally bowled over to read that Wilbon thinks sitting McNabb was "dumb". So, in summary...Shanahan thinks his player evals are top notch and Wilbon thinks his Chicagoland hero should play no matter how badly he's stinking up the joint. A morning full of surprises. What's next? The coffee here at the office today is going to taste like someone used Haynesworth's practice jersey as a filter?

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 7:35 AM | Report abuse

foolishness..

Posted by: impervious99 | November 2, 2010 7:37 AM | Report abuse

I would had kept ALL draft picks and not trade them to WIN NOW.

Again, the trades for McNabb and Brown were mistakes, coming in off the street and making a splash is all allen and shanahan did. what they accomplished with those trades was to set back any rebuild.

think about it, 2 picks that could have been o-line positions filled by youth and not an injured tackle and left over starters that should be back-ups at best.

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 7:35 AM |

Agreed but anybody can look back at it now and say that, be in the position to make the choice and it's not that easy.

Those 2 draft picks you speak of could have been good players they also could have been bust's

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:39 AM | Report abuse

While I agree with that, this regime just set us back by dealing two quality picks to the Eagles for a guy it took only a couple months for them to sour on. Instead of shoring up the QB position for the next 3-5 years, they just got an expensive stopgap. If McNabb is one and done, that sets us back dramatically.

Posted by: brownwood26

I have been saying this since the trade happened. If Shanahan wants McNabb to stay no one will offer more money than the Redskins. If McNabb wants a chance to win int the next few years he may end up in Arizona or Minny.

I have said all along this was going to be a while to fix. Its funny how the guys who are now preaching patience are the ones who thought McNabb and the coaching staff equaled playoffs.

This is a multi year rebuild and giving up the picks for an over the hill QB just set the franchise back even more.

The biggest concern is that Shanahan actually has final say in personnel decisions. While he is a great coach, he is an awful personnel guy.

Posted by: srobert1117 | November 2, 2010 7:45 AM | Report abuse

Good point Flound...picks only matter if you use them wisely. Everyone bristles over giving up a 2nd rounder in the Bailey/Portis deal, but considering the Broncos "wasted" it on Tatum Bell and the Skins didn't exactly have such a great track record picking there at the time (Taylor Jacobs, anyone?), I don't think it's that big a deal anymore.

So I don't have an issue with the team using the two picks to get McNabb per se...just that they apparently didn't do their due diligence before giving up two desperately needed selections.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

See how we can have good discussions when you take all the idiots out of the picture. The problem is the idiots will be up soon and then it will all go to sh_t again.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Some of us thought that the Eagles got the best of us in the McNabb deal. Some of us were disappointed because we thought the Redskins were going to rebuild in 2010.

Today, the McNabb situation is complex. I'm fairly certain he doesn't want to stay here unless he gets a lot of money. The Shanahan's are done with him unless he'll stay on fairly cheap as a caretaker for a year or two.

Common sense strongly suggests McNabb isn't here next year.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 2, 2010 7:54 AM | Report abuse

srobert,

You have a point the problem is the McNabb deal is already done so lets move on from if it should of happened or not to the here and now.

Arizona and Minny are terrible why would McNabb want to go to either place, Childress will be fired before the end of the season. Wisenhunt new his starter was retiring at the end of last year but did nothing to prepare for it.

McNabb will be a Skin if he plays better, if he doesn't then he will get a small contract from some suck a$$ team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:57 AM | Report abuse


Agreed but anybody can look back at it now and say that, be in the position to make the choice and it's not that easy.

Those 2 draft picks you speak of could have been good players they also could have been bust's


Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:39 AM |

I agree, draft picks can be a bust,

but hopefully the FOOTBALL PEOPLE we have in place can evaluate talent better than snyder and cerrato did. you have to give yourself a chance in the draft and not trade those picks away.

I have said all along and folks disagree with me, but we should build this team through the draft and add the final pieces that will make us a championship team thru FA's. that will take to long for most fans and for snyder himself, as witnessed on this here board and the last decade, respectfully.

Folks, it's WIN NOW -vs- DRAFT AND WIN IN THE FUTURE, and I think we've all seen WIN NOW seasons one to many times


Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

See how we can have good discussions when you take all the idiots out of the picture. The problem is the idiots will be up soon and then it will all go to sh_t again.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:52 AM


Amen. Let's just enjoy while it lasts...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Every time I see John Beck on the sidelines, active for every game this season, I wonder if he isn't part of the Shanahan's thinking on this matter. A coach notorious for only keeping two QB's on the roster continues to keep this guy around and active, even though there have been weeks that they are dangerously thin at important positions. Could it be that they think they stumbled onto a surprise, cheap, option for the future? I have no idea, but it would be a big obstacle toward assembling a good team cleared and a great story for the Skins.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

What if a team claims Moss off waivers and he decides he doesn't want to play for them and doesn't report?

Anyone!!!!

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Folks, it's WIN NOW -vs- DRAFT AND WIN IN THE FUTURE, and I think we've all seen WIN NOW seasons one to many times


Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Well said. But if you remember the 90s we suffered through a six year agony of rebuilding with Chuck Casserly and Norv. I wonder if this current organization has the patience.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 2, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

You'll keep writing about Shanahan because this is a story that you must write about if you want to keep your job - it has legs and will continue to have legs for a long time. But after his amateurish attempt at spinning the McNabb benching, I have no interest in anything that Mike Shanahan has to say. It is clear, very clear, that the man is disingenuous - AT BEST.

I see, now, why Pat Bowlen fired him. IMHO, Snyder's search for a head coach is far from over.

Posted by: morph424 | November 2, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Every time I see John Beck on the sidelines, active for every game this season, I wonder if he isn't part of the Shanahan's thinking on this matter...

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:05 AM


For the record, the 3rd QB isn't considered active unless he plays. And befor the 4th quarter, if you put him in you then render your other 2 QBs ineligible.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

It is clear, very clear, that the man is disingenuous - AT BEST.

I see, now, why Pat Bowlen fired him. IMHO, Snyder's search for a head coach is far from over.

Posted by: morph424 | November 2, 2010 8:15 AM |

Correct Shanny lies to the media along with the other 31 coaches in the league, how is Bowlen's new coach doing have they made it to the playoffs yet?

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse


Every time I see John Beck on the sidelines, active for every game this season, I wonder if he isn't part of the Shanahan's thinking on this matter.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:05 AM |

good point. didn't the skins sign beck to decent money for his clip board awareness. you have to wonder what the plan is for beck.

another question would be, who gives the redskins a better chance of winning if McNabb goes down ? beck or grossman ?

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

For the record, the 3rd QB isn't considered active unless he plays. And befor the 4th quarter, if you put him in you then render your other 2 QBs ineligible.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to the Eagles and 'The BodyBag Game'!

Posted by: monk811 | November 2, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

AS IF...

the head coach is going to admit that benching Dockery in favor of Lichtensteiger was a bad move.

AS IF...

the head coach is ever going to second-guess his son in public.

AS IF...

the head coach is ever going to admit any mistake, however trivial.

AS IF.

Posted by: Vic1 | November 2, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

For the record, the 3rd QB isn't considered active unless he plays. And befor the 4th quarter, if you put him in you then render your other 2 QBs ineligible.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:16 AM

I did not know that. Thanks. So, he dresses, but doesn't count against your "active" count?

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Re: Moss

I have been wondering that too Flound, b/c teams at the top of the waiver claim are not teams he wants to play for. I think he wants to do a mea culpa with Pats. Can you imagine if Pats get Moss back with his tail between his legs, still get the draft pick and have a WR core that now includes an emerging Tate and the old workhorse Branch to go along with Moss/Welker....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 2, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

who gives the redskins a better chance of winning if McNabb goes down ? beck or grossman ?

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 8:20 AM


Neither...if my choices are The Human Turnover and a guy who had a fairly substantial hand in a 1-15 Dolphins team, I vote Brandon Banks and a steady diet of the Wildcat...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

McNabb will be a Skin if he plays better, if he doesn't then he will get a small contract from some suck a$$ team

this is exactly the problem flound, a 2nd and a 3rd for a 1 year player is a TON to give up...thats what I'm struggling with, those are some serious building blocks that got traded and the ROI for it is negligible.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse


AS IF...

the head coach is ever going to admit any mistake, however trivial.

AS IF.

Posted by: Vic1 | November 2, 2010 8:23 AM |

some coaches do admit to being wrong, even when the players were at fault. shanahan doesn't fit that mould imho

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

CL,

I was thinking that yesterday BB might take him back just to prove he is the smartest guy in the NFL.

I remeber people saying how the Pats would regret trading Moss it was a terrible move, meeanwhile they are 3-0 without him.

People also said the Vikings were SB bound because they picked up Moss, what did he have like 2 catches.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Every time I see John Beck on the sidelines, active for every game this season, I wonder if he isn't part of the Shanahan's thinking on this matter. A coach notorious for only keeping two QB's on the roster continues to keep this guy around and active, even though there have been weeks that they are dangerously thin at important positions. Could it be that they think they stumbled onto a surprise, cheap, option for the future? I have no idea, but it would be a big obstacle toward assembling a good team cleared and a great story for the Skins.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:05 AM
------------------------------------------
Well, I would be inclined to sit on the conspiracy theory bench with you. Beck throws the best spiral of any of the quarterbacks on the roster. He doesn't have a strong arm like McNabb, but he has a fresh arm and delivers the ball accurately. It is ironic that they would commit to a two year contract for a guy who has never shown much in the league, while they won't re-sign their pro-bowl quarterback.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

this is exactly the problem flound, a 2nd and a 3rd for a 1 year player is a TON to give up...thats what I'm struggling with, those are some serious building blocks that got traded and the ROI for it is negligible.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 8:26 AM |

Agreed Greg but like you always say whats done is done, we need to hope Mcnabb can turn it on and deserve a contract here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

When Shanny made the McNabb trade, alot of us were questioning the overall thinking of the move.

We desperately needed an overhaul and rebuilding project, but we were giving up picks to get a "win-now" QB with a shelf-life of about 2 years.

The offense is a "work in progess" for sure - the Oline, the receivers, the coaches getting to know the personnel. THe only problem is that our QB is NOT a work in progress. He is what he is and it's not changing.

I like the way Shanny has turned around the attitude of the team, and I love some of the diamonds in the rough that he's uncovered.

But this McNabb thing was ill-conceived from the start.

Posted by: p1funk | November 2, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

If McNabb is Jayson Taylor 2.0 it will be a substantial fail on the part of the new regime, of that there is little debate. And Sunday is def a a big entry in the "Con" side of the ledger from all vantage points. But in the NFL siht changes at hyper-speed (like memba a week ago we were feeling good...) so we still got half a season to work some of this out. All sides made this bargain when they didn't sign him to an extension the day after easter (which I sort of view as the key mistake here, if you are gonna pay the draft pick price than sign him right away)so in reality we aren't in a much different place now than the entire season.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 2, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Two years from now when MS & KS have the players they need the Skins will be fine. Did anyone really expect more in one year with the train wreck they inherited? The entire team needs upgrading and yet they play with more heart each week than I remember in years.
Give it time, it took years to get this bad will take a couple more to acquire the talent needed to win big. Patience people.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan |
=======================

2yrs. from now this will be an 8 & 8 team. Shanahan is what he is and for yrs. now that is 8 & 8.

Posted by: RealConservative | November 2, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

moss, wants a new contract, and he wants to be a featured reciever BEFORE he wants to be a team player, not sure he's gonna put his tail between his legs, he's not changing his spots.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I did not know that. Thanks. So, he dresses, but doesn't count against your "active" count?

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:24 AM


Right. There's really no advantage there since he'd only play in case of dire emergency (thus the designation "emergency QB").

CL, I thought of the same thing, dude...it just feels like Belichick is playing Madden and screwing with other teams' rosters too...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

The folks offering up "Franchising" McNabb and trading him for picks to offset the picks we traded for him.... Is that really an option? If there is no CBA, the point is moot, for next year anyway. If there is a new CBA, sounds like there are going to be lots of changes and who knows if the "franchise tag" will still exist? When it comes to football in 2011, seems there are more questions than answers. Unrestricted Free Agents may have more power to determine their status on the other end of this labor dispute.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

How many playoff games has Kylie been to? None. Did Kylie play in the NFL? Chances that he would be coaching in the NFL if his daddy wasn't herr Shanhan? None.

If you are winning having daddy's spawn as OC may work. Having daddy's spawn as OC when the best part of daddy's DNA dripped down mommy's leg on the most dysfunctional team in the NFL is not a recipe for success. And that assumes their was a better part to Shanie's DNA which is doubtful.

Skins with Snyder as owner will alwys be losers. Now FLounder21 make sure you consult with Danny Boy before responding.
Herr Shanahan needs to be careful Wilbon is right in column today.

Posted by: sheepherder | November 2, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

McNabb will be a Skin if he plays better, if he doesn't then he will get a small contract from some suck a$$ team

this is exactly the problem flound, a 2nd and a 3rd for a 1 year player is a TON to give up...thats what I'm struggling with, those are some serious building blocks that got traded and the ROI for it is negligible.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 8:26 AM
------------------------------------------
I think that is the first time I have seen ROI used on this blog. I agree with you that the team gave up a lot if the guy is only going to be around for a year. I'm just not buying it, though. I think a quarterback's success is based on a lot of things: offensive line, offensive play calling, receivers, running game... Without some of those major components being of high quality, I just don't think you can hang it all on the quarterback.

My UFB moment of the day was Shanahan declaring that Lichtensteiger was playing very well. WTF??? Maybe Shanahan is basing this solely on mechanics and Lich being where he needs to be; however, none of that amounts to a hill of beans if he isn't strong enough to push guys out of the way.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

And we have the first idiot hit the board congrats sheepf-cker oops I meant sheep herder.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

If Moss returns to the Pats of course he will behave for 8 games...did you not listen to his press conference (or read it at least in the box scores...)where he basically tossed the Patriots salad? He behaved in NE until about 4 weeks ago and he knows he aint getting zilch in a new contract unless he actually strings together some film the second half of the season.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 2, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the Skins are more than a one year fix. I disagree with some of the moves that the Shannys have made. Benching McNabb, playing Lichtensteiger, cutting Thomas, the cat fight with AH. Does anybody think Grossman was our best chance? Does anyone believe that Lichtensteiger is playing better than Dockery? Does anyone believe Thomas would be any less productive than Armstrong, Galloway, or Williams? Does anyone believe that AH would have been any less dominant without the drama?
These are all COACHING decisions that have affected the team in less than favorable ways. And we are only 8 games in to the season. Please stop giving Shanahan the benefit of the doubt on everything he does. There is a reason why it’s been 12 years since he won a suber bowl and a reason why the Broncos fired him. I think we are better than last year but let’s stop all the nonsense that Ego Mike has all the answers and that they are never wrong.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

You guys see the direct results of the Shanahan treatment in the recent production of Fat Al, and then you go all Ape SJK when he applies this methodology to other players. That's just silly.

The reason he likes Licht is because, technically, he's doing the right things. Shanny isn't focused on results right now. He's focused on method. This explains all his actions.

The fact that no one in the media is picking up on this doesn't surprise me. That fact that more of you aren't picking up on this does. C'mon RI, we're better than this.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Good point MColeman...plus people continue to overlook the concept of TRADE VALUE. If McNabb continues to struggle and the Skins tank, who's gonna want him? Anyone that does won't wanna give up more than a conditional mid-round pick, so at best you'd get back only one of the picks you spent.

Minny wouldn't make sense anymore because they're gonna clean house. Arizona makes sense but they don't really do the trade/FA thing. Maybe San Fran, but they're gonna see a regime change as well.

Point is, it's not likely he's holding the cards on this because all the "dream" scenarios people float out there won't be so dreamy in the offseason.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

You guys see the direct results of the Shanahan treatment in the recent production of Fat Al, and then you go all Ape SJK when he applies this methodology to other players. That's just silly.

The reason he likes Licht is because, technically, he's doing the right things. Shanny isn't focused on results right now. He's focused on method. This explains all his actions.

The fact that no one in the media is picking up on this doesn't surprise me. That fact that more of you aren't picking up on this does. C'mon RI, we're better than this.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2010 8:45 AM |

Ding Ding Ding what we got for her Johhny!!!!!

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

renhoekk2. Anthony Armstrong has shown more in 4 games than DT in 2 seasons. Didn't even make the trip this week for the Panthers. Just stop with that. And I absolutely believe if AH had been allowed to do his own thing he be less productive. I agree Shanny has me head scratching on some things, but half your examples are retarted.

Nice post Dik, I think you nailed it.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

cl, agree to disagree, Bill dumped randy because randy wasn't buying into the system of TEAM and VICTORIES first, individual accomplishments 2nd, he's now got Branch in there, and they're doing well, so why would he bother bringing Moss back....thats just not happening....

how's roydell playing by the way...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: sheepherder | November 2, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone understand this idiot?

Come back after you take some English classes and can actually type 5 words without some kind of error!!! Typical uneducated Cowpie troll!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 2, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Oh - forgot to reference the application to McLovin as well. Totally understandable.

Just remember, it's not about winning a game as much as it is about getting the team to play properly.

This dragon chasing many are advocating are what we've been suffering from for a while now. Shanny is the solution, this is the cure. Lichtensteiger.

Fun eh?

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Guys I think we are worrying too much. I think Mc5 will be here next year, but if he isn't that is okay. We gave up much more to get Jason Taylor, so at least it was a low risk. Yes, we gave a 2nd. Yes we gave a 3rd/4th. But it was worth the risk for at least this year. Who would you rather start a new regime off with? JC8? Or Mc5? Just the leadership alone, will set the tempo for years to come.

As for Jammal Brown, I think he is playing better than yall think. Its the Speed rushers that are giving him fits. He is still recovering from hip surgery. He is still getting use to quick hip movement. But when its time to move a guy upfeild, in regards to running the ball...he has been great. I think we resign him, b/c he is good. Plus we need O line depth.

Now lets go get Randy!

Posted by: roccoskins | November 2, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

You guys see the direct results of the Shanahan treatment in the recent production of Fat Al, and then you go all Ape SJK when he applies this methodology to other players. That's just silly.

The reason he likes Licht is because, technically, he's doing the right things. Shanny isn't focused on results right now. He's focused on method. This explains all his actions.

The fact that no one in the media is picking up on this doesn't surprise me. That fact that more of you aren't picking up on this does. C'mon RI, we're better than this.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2010 8:45 AM |

Ding Ding Ding what we got for her Johhny!!!!!

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 8:47 AM |

I could not agree more with that post.

Lickenscrotum is not the best O-Lineman but he's banging away at it like a good Shanny soldier.

I like the example this set for the younger players: Bust your butt, stay in shape, practice your azz off and you will earn PT.

Let's not kid ourselves that this teams' personnel is going to overwhelm anyone. When they do their jobs and put forth maximum effort (LoZo, Banks, Torain, KW, Armstrong), the Shanny's will get them PT.

I like what I'm seeing still because I see that no one's job is safe.

I have never been one to believe that a player deserves anything other than an opportunity. If that opportunity is taken lightly, there is someone else at the ready. I think it's really detrimental to team sports to offer a player "tenure" and allow them to dictate how they play in the present based on achievements of the past. No one is above being pulled and the more we hear about McNabb's practice habits and conditioning and grasp of the system, he should have gotten the hook.

He didn't look to pissed about it. That bugs me too.

If we win anything this year - great. If not, cool, we go grab one of the half-dozen franchise QB's that will be in the draft this year.

Go Skins!

Posted by: Personal_Fowl | November 2, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

OH bggreg as predictable as the sun....Well Roydell is certainly not setting the world on fire but he is on the roster over your two 2nd round busts you have spent the past two years ball tickling...so looks like victory me on that one. Also way to take a statement made in early august pre-season that I made "Keep an eye on Ruydell, I think he might make the team" (which by the way turned out to be correct)and flog it like the member of 45 year old virgin.

And this for a guy who posted like 49 times how excellent a company Circut City was literally as their lawyers were filing chapter 11 in front of a judge. Your list of "wrongs" could be War & Peace: The Sequel.

And now I am convinced Moss is a Pat again b/c you said "not going to happen" b/c you are basically never right. (Redskins WILL NOT draft MK12, AH will NOT be a Skin etc etc etc)

Posted by: chrislarry | November 2, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

dik,

I agree the culture of players running the show has been in Washington for a long time even Gibbs II, however Gibbs was such a great coach he could still get the guys to play hard.

Shanny has to wipe that crap out before he does anything else and he is well on his way. No player can be above the team, and I think these guys are getting the message.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

See how we can have good discussions when you take all the idiots out of the picture. The problem is the idiots will be up soon and then it will all go to sh_t again.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

soon, I hear them rustling...

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | November 2, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the Skins are more than a one year fix. I disagree with some of the moves that the Shannys have made. Benching McNabb, playing Lichtensteiger, cutting Thomas, the cat fight with AH. Does anybody think Grossman was our best chance? Does anyone believe that Lichtensteiger is playing better than Dockery? Does anyone believe Thomas would be any less productive than Armstrong, Galloway, or Williams? Does anyone believe that AH would have been any less dominant without the drama?
These are all COACHING decisions that have affected the team in less than favorable ways. And we are only 8 games in to the season. Please stop giving Shanahan the benefit of the doubt on everything he does. There is a reason why it’s been 12 years since he won a suber bowl and a reason why the Broncos fired him. I think we are better than last year but let’s stop all the nonsense that Ego Mike has all the answers and that they are never wrong.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 8:44 AM
-------------------------------------------
Not defending Shanahan, because, to be clear, I think the McNabb benching was silly, but there is a component of this that we fans do not see. If they ran through the same play twenty times in practice and McNabb couldn't get it down but Grossman could... Maybe they wanted to run that play in the two minute drill.

To the larger point, we know that Devin Thomas slept in one of the team meetings. That was probably just the tip of the iceberg of things DT did to show his lack of engagement. I really don't know what Shanny sees in Lichtensteiger, but maybe it isn't so much what Lichie has done as to what Dockery has not done. Maybe we just don't see those things.

Shanny wants players that play his way. He wants guys who believe in the team concept. I think what we see from him is he will play a less talented guy who executes the play perfectly every time over the more talented guy who flubs it occasionally. Maybe that is what finally happened with McNabb: he flubbed it one too many times.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

As far as Kory Lichtensteiger, he couldn't block my 2-wk old newborn nephew!

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's a LIAR. Shanahan is a flat-out LIAR. The kid wanted his buddy, Sexy Rexy, to get a shot to show that he knows the offense. Rex himself said that "Donovan knows he has to play better". As a coach, I'd respect it more if Shanny just came out and said he wasn't that impressed with the day Donovan was having, and decided to see if he could shake things up a bit. Didn't work out.

Posted by: delfranklin4 | November 2, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

actually cl, it was 'comeback player of the year', but you're not one for remembering what you said, just for writing in your diary the things I do...I wont bring up how you said they'd keep all 3 rb's....you probably have that one misrememberd as well....love how when you make a statement there's all kinds of caveats, and excuses...haha...also, "victory to me" really cl...you that insecure dude..wow...whateves I guess....congrats on your 'win'...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Now lets go get Randy!

Posted by: roccoskins | November 2, 2010 8:58 AM


Hopefully you mean Randy Thomas to come play LG...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

The reason he likes Licht is because, technically, he's doing the right things. Shanny isn't focused on results right now. He's focused on method. This explains all his actions
DikShuttle

Results are the only thing that matter in a football game. It doesn’t matter if an OG uses the correct technique if he is not talented enough or strong enough to stop a guy. If proper technique is what matters then why was he being planted in the lap of our QB all game? If a WR uses the correct technique to run a pattern but isn’t quick enough to beat a guy or has good enough hands to make the catch what good is it.
Not saying good coaching doesn’t play a part but the teams that win consistently have the better players. Plain and simple. Why do you think the Colts drop off dramatically when Peyton Manning is not playing? If the other 10 guys and the backup QB are all using the correct technique to do their jobs then they should still be just as good using your argument.
This is the type of blind faith in Shanny that is driving me crazy. Don’t worry Mike is a genius. When he gets “his guys” we’ll be unstoppable. Well he had his guys for the last 12 years in Denver. How did that work out for them? When he lost Elway and T Davis he became just another head coach in this league. Not a great coach like Gibbs who won with different QB’s and RB’s every time. If that is what Shanny had done then I would say his method is beyond questioning.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the Skins are more than a one year fix. I disagree with some of the moves that the Shannys have made. Benching McNabb, playing Lichtensteiger, cutting Thomas, the cat fight with AH. Does anybody think Grossman was our best chance? Does anyone believe that Lichtensteiger is playing better than Dockery? Does anyone believe Thomas would be any less productive than Armstrong, Galloway, or Williams? Does anyone believe that AH would have been any less dominant without the drama?


Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

The only one I really agree with you on is the playing of Cory Lick-my-stinger, I believe everything else was justified.

Devin Thomas ALWAYS had a problem running routes, even the old regime could figure that out. And the ONE THING he was told to do, which was kick returning, he couldn't even do that right. He returned every kick like he was a crackhead running from the cops, he never waited for his blocks to set up, and that's why he got cut.

The 'cat fight' with AH was just a coach teaching a player who's boss and humbling him. And look at Haney now, looks more tame and motivated to me, anyone else?

The ONLY reason I'm in favor of the McNabb benching is because of the last time he was benched. When Andy Reid benched him, he blew it up the week after, and didn't they go to the NFC Championship that year? Donovan obviously needed a fire lit under his azz to get him motivated, hopefully this works!

I'm not saying everything Shanahan touches is gold, but I'm not gonna complain and judge until the end of the year and see how next offseason goes. After what we have gone through in recent years, I'm willing to trust the guy, and I don't care how many years it's been since he's won a SB, at least he won them.

Posted by: monk811 | November 2, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

As far as Kory Lichtensteiger, he couldn't block my 2-wk old newborn nephew!

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's a LIAR.

Posted by: delfranklin4 | November 2, 2010 9:05 AM

To me, this opening couplet seems rather ironic and contradictory.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse


Donovan McFatt has always been an injury-prone, fat tub of goo. Now he's YOUR injury-prone, fat tub of goo and he only cost you a high draft pick. LOL

Andy Reid pulled a fast one on Daniel Snyder. Again.

We Will Defend The Star!!

Posted by: BigBlueStar | November 2, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

So 1st it was Grossman's ability to execute the 2 minute better, then it was McNabb's lack of cardiovascular endurance, now it's McNabb's practice habits?

Yikes.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | November 2, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

As far as Kory Lichtensteiger, he couldn't block my 2-wk old newborn nephew!

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's a LIAR.

Posted by: delfranklin4 |

Well I guess you hated Gibbs as well you think he didn't lie everytime he was in front of a microphone.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

As far as Kory Lichtensteiger, he couldn't block my 2-wk old newborn nephew!

Posted by: delfranklin4 | November 2, 2010 9:05 AM


If that's the case, then your nephew sounds like a good practice squad signing...

Speaking of practice squad, Tim Hasselbeck is throwing in his .02 on the McNabb brouhaha:

"I was a teammate of Donovan McNabb's in Philadelphia," Hasselbeck said on Mike and Mike in the Morning. "One of the things that drove them crazy in Philadelphia was the lack of tempo at which he practiced. . . . It was always something where you're leaving the quarterback meeting and it would be, 'Hey, listen, the head man wants a little more tempo today.' Nearly every single day. That's been the deal with Donovan McNabb. I know exactly what Mike Shanahan is talking about."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/02/tim-hasselbeck-says-mcnabbs-bad-practice-habits-go-way-back/

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

The O-line has been the problem for how many years now??? Well the one person know one is mentioning and the main culprit of the O-line woes is Casey Rabach...look at the film how many times is it him getting beat up the middle laying on his ass and or holding someone. Benching McNabb was no big deal yes the excuse was lame but he had taken a pounding and at that stage of the game you figure what the hell maybe just maybe we'll get lucky with Grossman, well no it didn't work out that way but McNabb is still the starter. For my 2 cents this is where all the emphasis should be put during the bye week the O-line and the O-line coach. In closing I think they ought to look at the play calling it's not that the plays are bad, but they're called at the wrong time as it seems the defense is always aware of what we're getting ready to do.

Posted by: papaskynz | November 2, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Ok, I understand it when a coach is firm to keep control, but to be firm and wrong to prove a point is stupidity. You can watch game film all day long 50 times over and over and you'll see kory getting blown back off the ball by the guy in front of him. In every game he's played in this season. While Dock may not be as nimble to get to the second level in the zone scheme, he's head and shoulders above kory in pass protection. And that goes for our center as well who can't run or pass block without getting pushed back into the backfield.

Posted by: clark202 | November 2, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

When he lost Elway and T Davis he became just another head coach in this league. Not a great coach like Gibbs who won with different QB’s and RB’s every time. If that is what Shanny had done then I would say his method is beyond questioning.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

And that's why Gibbs to me is in the top 5 coaches of all-time! But don't discount Shanny. He's knows his offense, and was apart of the 49ers when they won a SB, in fact he called the plays!
And one more thing, you could also make the case that Elway didn't win anything before Shanny came! They obviously needed each other, but both were instrumental in the SB wins.

Posted by: monk811 | November 2, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan is one of those guys who spouts out bullsh!T repetitively to the point that he is so convinced in its truth that he is incredulous that you don't believe it.

Lichtenstieger, Grossman, Gallaway, really?

Posted by: bangkokben | November 2, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan is one of those guys who spouts out bullsh!T repetitively to the point that he is so convinced in its truth that he is incredulous that you don't believe it.

Lichtenstieger, Grossman, Gallaway, really?

Posted by: bangkokben | November 2, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse


And one more thing, you could also make the case that Elway didn't win anything before Shanny came! They obviously needed each other, but both were instrumental in the SB wins.

Posted by: monk811 | November 2, 2010 9:24 AM

That is, by far, the dumbest thing you've ever written. Elway took his team to a Super Bowl with Dan Reeves as his coach and no running game to speak of. He did "win" the conference championship to get to the Super Bowl, right?

Think much?

Posted by: ahwyatt | November 2, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

allen -vs- cerrato

this will be the ultimate in deciding if this franchise will turn the corner and be a championship team.

we all know what cerrato was all about and allen has tons of cerrato's mistakes to deal with.

so far, allen has done what a good soldier would do, albeit wrong, in trading draft picks, trying to give us a shot at winnig.

folks, it will be this offseason and not the rest of this one that will determine our status as a playoff caliber team. I'm hoping that allen will do a better job at keeping draft picks and more importantly, draft with some common sense. remember, cerrato always said you draft the best remaining athlete when it's your turn to pick. I hope allen picks the best athlete for the position we need filled.

we all know that our draft picks have been mostly bust during the cerrato years, but here's to hoping allen tightens it up a little and has success in the draft years ahead.

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I'm not saying benching McNabb is ever out of the question. My problem was the timing. Game on the line and you pull your starting QB? Last 2 mins of the first half like Reid did? OK

You basically told DMac and the entire team you don't believe the team can with McNabb.

That is a stupid coaching move.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Monk

I'm not saying benching McNabb is ever out of the question. My problem was the timing. Game on the line and you pull your starting QB? Last 2 mins of the first half like Reid did? OK

You basically told DMac and the entire team you don't believe the team can with McNabb.

That is a stupid coaching move.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | November 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I agree the culture of players running the show has been in Washington for a long time even Gibbs II, however Gibbs was such a great coach he could still get the guys to play hard.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 2, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse
------------------------

Gibbs motivational angle was to play for each other, and he expected his veterans to lead the team. That's why you had some atypical collisions between talented players and Gibbs perspective of their role on the team (Arrington, Lloyd). That's why he also collected characters (Portis/Cooley/Mann/Grimm/Riggo, etc) who ultimately could influence a locker room without him around.

Shanahan removes the middle man and demands commitment to the team concept.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 2, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Even if, and I said IF, KL is better than Dock (which I seriously doubt,) how do you justify not even dressing Dock? The man goes from starter to not good enough to dress without a stop at back-up in between? Somebody, anybody, please explain. Maybe KL should be slid over to center and Dock re-inserted at guard because CR is the worst center in the entire NFL.

Posted by: largetony86 | November 2, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

The more I think about the DMac trade, the more frustrated I get. Really, if it's common knowledge (at least it should have been with a little due diligence) that DMac is a poor practice guy, and practicing well is your shtick...then why make the trade. So sick of wasted draft picks.

Posted by: TWISI | November 2, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Even if, and I said IF, KL is better than Dock (which I seriously doubt,) how do you justify not even dressing Dock? The man goes from starter to not good enough to dress without a stop at back-up in between? Somebody, anybody, please explain. Maybe KL should be slid over to center and Dock re-inserted at guard because CR is the worst center in the entire NFL.

Posted by: largetony86 | November 2, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Even if, and I said IF, KL is better than Dock (which I seriously doubt,) how do you justify not even dressing Dock? The man goes from starter to not good enough to dress without a stop at back-up in between? Somebody, anybody, please explain. Maybe KL should be slid over to center and Dock re-inserted at guard because CR is the worst center in the entire NFL.

Posted by: largetony86 | November 2, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

The first half of the Skins season is over. A 4 and 4 record after a 4 and 12 season, with new coaches, players, QB, GM, etc. seems to be a fair start. Everyone wishes it was 6 and 2, but it could be 2 and 6.
The only thing I can't figure out is this. Are Brian Mitchel, Mike Wilbon, and other in the local media the Coach and GM of the Redskins or is it Shanahan and Allen. Media People should report the sports info and let the readers/listners make up their own decisions about the Team. It is worse than CNN, FOX, and MSNBC at election time.

Posted by: golfwise | November 2, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse


Shanahan removes the middle man and demands commitment to the team concept.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 2, 2010 9:48 AM

Another idiotic statement. Was it in the team's best interest to put an ice-cold, fumble-prone QB in the game with 1:50 left in the fourth quarter? Shamahan's an egomanical, lying POS. His personal frustration with McNabb led him to make a move that guaranteed that the effort put forth by the whole team was done in vain. Bet the locker room doesn't think that was "team first" move by Shamahan.

Posted by: ahwyatt | November 2, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I wish the offensive line grades would be made public each week because Lichtensteiger has been either our first or second best offensive lineman each week. Dock was never higher than third with the current group. ALL of the blame that he is bearing should actually be reserved for Rabach, who gets blown up 4 yards into the backfield on each passing play. Eric Cook is a much more physical presence at center, but perhaps isn't seasoned enough to know the intricacies of the NFL game in order to immediately move him there. Perhaps moving Lichtensteiger over to Center and Dockery back to guard is the best solution, but that would erode our ability to run the ball at all (give and take). In which case McNabb would really have to pick up the pace in terms of learning the offense and the now notorious "two minute drill." Methinks that if the season tanks, we'll see a youth movement on the line (ala Eric Cook). But lets not get into a hysteria just yet. We've faced two of the best defensive lines in all of football the past two weeks, the line is still gelling, and hopefully Brown will continue to heal. Hail!

Posted by: fcmuenchweiler | November 2, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"I'm fairly certain he doesn't want to stay here unless he gets a lot of money. The Shanahan's are done with him unless he'll stay on fairly cheap as a caretaker for a year or two.

Common sense strongly suggests McNabb isn't here next year."

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 2, 2010 7:54 AM

A lot of things can change in half a season in the NFL. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about what's going to happen to McNabb in the off-season based on what's gone on so far.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | November 2, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Who in the HELL said we have'nt had hope since Marty S., was the coach??????
Did this "not so true fan" remember that in 2 of the 4yrs of(Gibbs2), we went to the playoffs & it felt like we were going to win it all the year Collins, surged us into the playoffs!!!!
If you don't remember these feelings since Marty, then you don't know REDSKINS FOOTBALL!

Posted by: Trophyjeff | November 2, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Coach Shanahan,

Swallow your pride big guy. Derrick Dockery is the better Guard. He's got the Pro-Bowls to prove it. He was probably one NFL primetime video clip appearance away from making it last year.
Maybe you think Lichtensteiger has quicker feet. I might have to concede that. But we don't have running backs that are outrunning anyone. They're downhill types. Guess what, so IS Dock!
Bottom line, with Dock in there would be better blocking on the left side, helping Casey in the middle and Trent on the outside. With Dock in, there would be fewer sacks coming from the left side of the line. With Dock in there would be fewer penalties for be an untalented HACK from the left side!
If Albert and Jim Haslett can work out their differences so that Jim makes the defense work a little better for key players like Albert and DeAngelo than I believe that you can swallow your pride and repair our O-line by starting Dock.
I've got faith in ya coach, hell we all do. Kory won't be around next year. So there's no need in worrying about hurting his feelings. Put Dock in for a whole game, he'll show you something. He's got the drive to win, he's a professional and he'll give you the best chance for success THIS season.

Posted by: Hunter2625 | November 2, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

"Kory's been playing well, very well," Shanahan said. "If Dock was the best player, he'd been in there.

"If Kory was not better than Dock, then he wouldn't be in there. Very simple. We're going to play the best players. It's based on film. You evaluate everything."


More sand falling out of Shanny's crdibility hour glass. KORY SUCKS....

Posted by: dcwun | November 2, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm I missing something, the offense scored enough points to win the game.anytime you score 25 points you should win.

Posted by: theturfman | November 2, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I've got 2 thoughts about this.

1. Either Shanahan is lying about Kory's performance
2. Shanahan realizes that many of the breakdowns are not directly Kory's fault.

If #1, then Shanahan either has an even lower opinion of Dockery than we thought and still feels Kory is the best option at hand, or Shanahan just is too arrogant to admit he might be wrong.

if #2 that could mean that Shanahan Realizes that the buck stops with the Center on OL calls, which means Rabach has this season to prove he's worth retaining. If Rabach fails to produce, and the OL continues to struggle, then perhaps a change will be coming. Or it could be, that Shanahan realizes the entire OL really is not right for his system, so he's trying his best to make due with what he has, and right now feels Kory's ability is better for the scheme.

Posted by: Veretax | November 3, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

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