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NFL Executive's Take on the Offense, Defense

Spoke at length to a personnel executive this morning who watched last night's game very closely. He came away with one prevailing thought on both sides of the ball.

On defense, he pointed to the run defense, or, more specifically, the lack thereof. "A Greg Blache defense is predicated on stopping the run," the executive said. "Every week that's the number one goal. Everything in that system keys from that. This is an old-school, defensive line coach. I guarantee you that's what he'll be talking to them about all week."

The executive gave much credit to Jason Taylor for gutting it out and playing despite his knee injury, but said he expects teams to continue to target the under-sized ends in the running game, especially divisional opponents like Dallas (they have a beefy tailback, Marion Barber, who can run over people in much the same way Brandon Jacobs did last night). There were problems with the interior of the line as well. "It looked to me like they were getting blown of the ball at the [defensive] tackle position," the executive said. "I haven't seen the game film, but that's what it looked like to me."

Offensively, the executive pointed to something we blogged about at length through the entire offseason as the coaching search took shape and it become obvious that the team was switching to a West Coast scheme: Is Jason Campbell the right fit for that offense?

Admittedly, we're one game into this, but coming off the preseason it certainly seems safe to say that this offense had better make some major strides. They are coming in on the ground floor, essentially unable to pick up a first down with any regularity. Campbell will get all the blame - or most of it - but his success also depends on decisions made way over his head. This executive mirrored comments others made to me through the offseason about the situation.

As the executive said: "Jason Campbell is Doug Williams. He's not Steve Young. He's not Matt Hasselbeck. He's a vertical quarterback. He's a big kid with a long delivery. Seven-step drops. Stretch the field. It's all based off the power run game and the play-action pass. Run deep sideline patterns. Come-back routes on the outside. That's who he is. Send [receiver Santana] Moss deep, have him turn the corner's hips and come back for the ball.

"He's not a high-tempo, three-step, touch pass guy. I don't see it. He's not in an offense that's about taking shots. This system doesn't play to his strengths. You're looking at a steep learning curve.

"Go back and look at why they traded up for Campbell in the first place. What was [Joe] Gibbs trying to do? [Former starting quarterback Mark] Brunell couldn't stretch the field and when he scouted Campbell he saw Doug Williams. That's who they compared him to. How many personnel guys think Doug Williams would have worked in a West Coast offense? He's a vertical passer.

"When I watch that team, I think something's going to have to give. Is it the scheme or the quarterback? At some point either the coach is going to have to change what he does to fit the quarterback, or they're going to need a different quarterback.

"It's not even really a reflection on Campbell. I think he can play. I think you can win games on Sunday with Jason Campbell. But it's got to be the right fit. Vinny Cerrato decided his team was going to go West Coast, he picked Jim Zorn as his coach and they're going to try to get Campbell to execute it.

"That's the first thing he did when [Cerrato] took over for Gibbs [as primary personnel executive]. You can trace it all back to that, and if that doesn't work then your team is in trouble. It could take four years to dig out of something like that. If the coach doesn't have the right personnel to run his system, then you're starting over again."

By Jason La Canfora  |  September 5, 2008; 12:09 PM ET
 
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Comments

Zorn:

JC will never be a Steve Young.

Posted by: 4th | September 5, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Yawn....

Didn't Campbell run a west coast offense at Auburn? Yeah, thought so.....

For the record, NFL Executives thought enough of Tom Brady to have him last till the 6th round. And enough of Ryan Leaf to have him go 2nd overall.

I wonder how many "nfl executives" he had to talk to before he got the NEGATIVES that he wanted to post on here.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Have to agree... don't know how to finesse it, but that's the key to winning, a coach and a QB on the same page.

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Cha-ching

Posted by: Jackpot | September 5, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

It's time for Zorn to take responsibility....no more criticizing his players (or benching them) before looking in the mirror.

Posted by: Lisa | September 5, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Since some people Up Here like the analogy, wasn't one of the keys to Gibbs' turnaround from 0-5 was a man-to-man meeting with Theisman?

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

....and of course, the Snydermen will blame the Washington Post's Insider Blog (they always do) for the team's failures last night. Anyone watching the team sees old o-linemen, light-weight defensive ends, small wideouts, an invisible Chris Cooley, and an uncertain quarterback. And remind me why Greg Williams wasn't hired as head coach? And just wait for the point in the season when everyone realizes the Skins really do need to get back the draft picks they wasted on Jason Taylor. Oh well.

Posted by: Emmett Mosley | September 5, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

"they have a beefy tailback, Marion Barber, who can run over people in much the same way Brandon Jacobs did last night

By Jason La Canfora | September 5, 2008; 12:09 PM ET "

What!? Was he not at any of Dallas' games last year when they played them?!?! 1 yard Rushing for the whole game!? TO beat us the 1st game because they couldn't nothing on the ground. Give me a break........

Posted by: 4th | September 5, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

ZorN:

"Our sideline attitude was great."

What!?

Posted by: 4th | September 5, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Zorn presser on now. Critical of Campbell.

He really sounds bad. Trying to make friends with the media. Lost his train of thought to take time to compliment somebody on the jersey they were wearing.

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 12:32 PM

Hey jacka$$, got anything positive? Ever? All you've done is bash away. You must be hated at home. "Son, I know it's only your first day at school, but you're never gonna amount to nuthin', now don't trip gettin' on the bus."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

We didn't have problems with new coaches and new systems!

Posted by: Dallas, Pittsburgh | September 5, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Zorn calling himself out on the clock management and playcalling at the end of the game.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

We didn't have problems with new coaches and new systems!


Posted by: Dallas, Pittsburgh | September 5, 2008 12:38 PM


Hey Dallas, you had the same coach, Jerry Jones.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

It's time for Zorn to take responsibility....no more criticizing his players (or benching them) before looking in the mirror.

Posted by: Lisa | September 5, 2008 12:35 PM

I agree. He's got to get the offense playing with urgency.

Posted by: MJ | September 5, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

The unnamed NFL Executive = Vinny Cerrato

Posted by: Secret | September 5, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

The season is lost already, Why?

bad QB incorrigible can not be taught to be a good NFL QB

secondly ZORN! he is in way over his head at best he is a very good QB coach he is not head coach material and will lose the confidence of his players within 4 weeks

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

The unnamed NFL Executive = anyone who say's anything negative about the Redskins.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Can someone post what is being said at the presser for those of us who cannot access.....thanks.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Skins get throttled on the field last night and the first two posts take shots at JLC. Unbelievable! Did you watch the game last night??? Did you think Campbell looked good? Yes he ran the wco at Auburn his senior year but the SEC aint the NFL.

I'm a diehard Skins fan but also a realist. Last night's offensive display was the worst I've ever seen from an NFL offense. Zorn has never been an OC and it sure looked like it. This team has regressed since we last saw it in January. Zorn may have been a good choice had the Skins decided to rebuild. But to expect him to step in for Gibbs and improve things is unrealistic. Zorn is still trying to figure out how to do a new job with a new organization. There's a massive learning curve to deal with there.

Zorn seems like a nice guy but he's in way over his head.

Posted by: Alexandria, VA | September 5, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

This NFL Executive can stick his review where the sun don't shine. Campbell was 13-0 and SEC Offensive POY in the West Coast scheme (and 66%ish accurate), and is now 1 game into the system in the NFL - with a mediocre O-Line and receivers, playing an amped up opponent at home on Week 1.

This poor kid is being throw under the bus by everyone, the media vultures are circling, and the fans are going to turn on him, and a potential franchise QB is going to be ruined. I can't wait for the Week 8 chants for Colt Brennan, have him throw 12 interceptions, and then the Week 9 chants for Campbell to come back in.

Posted by: Ben | September 5, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Obviously hope the "NFL Executive" is wrong but this sounds like a replay of when Petibone tried to make Rypien a WCO QB - another QB who's specialty was the long ball. Maybe Campbell will rebound since he's been successful in a WCO system before, but he looked pretty unsure of himself last night on the few occasions when he had time to throw (maybe he's hearing footsteps - couldn't blame him with that lousy OL).

Posted by: skinswest | September 5, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts
1. LACK OF INTENSITY. What this group had in 2007 has left the building
2. Too many dumb mistakes, including
On 3rd and long, Campbell throws short to Santana Moss. I'm not sure which was dumber. Throwing short to Moss or calling a play where your best receiver runs a 4 yard pattern when you need 12.
On the one deep ball, Moss had his man beat and STOPPED running.
On 3rd and 1, they ran a simple dive play ... exactly what hadn't worked vs Jax.
In the 2nd half they completed 4 or 5 passes on 3rd down that DIDN'T go for a 1st down
And of course, the failure to go no huddle, let alone move quickly, in the 4th quarter when down 2 scores.
3. Jason Taylor was not ready, but this game should help him
4. The defense does need to make those INTs. Especially while the offense is struggling to figure out what its doing
5. Rock had a strong game
6. We have 10 days to prep for the next game and that is a good thing
7. Zorn really did need to learn what he's got and what he hasn't. The preseason didn't answer a lot of questions
8. At least the defense showed up in the 2nd half. They bent more than they broke in the first half.
9. Is McMullen on the team yet?
10. Where were all the passes to the RBs in patterns?

And just for Greg ... yes Anquan Boldin would definitely help this team a lot.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Now by "NFL exec" do you really mean the little voice in your head that tells you to do things????

Posted by: Skinzzzzzzzz | September 5, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

al, lol, at least your consistent in your delusion....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Portis was great. 84 yards with the box stacked and no passing game to speak of is beyond impressive. I love CP. Rock catches crap from many, but he gets the job done. Fletcher is a friggin' hit machine. They were the MVPs of the night.

That said, and because I loooooooove to be negative, the issues here extend way beyond who's on the field and what they do on it. Simple as that.

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Last night's offensive display was the worst I've ever seen from an NFL offense.

Well that's just rediculous (as we say Up Here). The Detroit Lions of the 1970s had seasons with less offensive output than we saw last night.
And I recall a 36-0 thrashing by this same opponent on this same field just two short years ago.

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Anyone see last night's post game show? Brian Mitchell was brutal. He is one angry man. He basically called out the players for not taking the preseason seriously and that this game was a reflection of how they have been playing for the last month. I have to say he made a lot of sense.

Posted by: will_ga | September 5, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I love how everyone always brings up Tom Brady to point out that execs don't know anything. He's called an exception. Do you get that? If there was a Tom Brady every year it'd be one thing but it's not.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Portis was great. 84 yards with the box stacked and no passing game to speak of is beyond impressive. I love CP. Rock catches crap from many, but he gets the job done. Fletcher is a friggin' hit machine. They were the MVPs of the night.

That said, and because I loooooooove to be negative, the issues here extend way beyond who's on the field and what they do on it. Simple as that.

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 12:53 PM

Now that I can live with, and agree with. Just trying to get some people yo look at both sides here.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Brian Mitchell, are you kidding me?? He's grinding a larger axe than JLA? Do you really take that guy seriously?

Jla, Jenkins, Mitchell, I mean, if you can't see their agenda from 3 miles back, then you need glasses....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

The point about being beaten at the defensive tackles is one that is important. The Jints do have one of the best power run games. But Griffin has been a stud when healthy. Fletcher made a lot of tackles, but if the d tackles are doing their job, Fletcher is hitting guys near the line of scrimmage, not 4 yards down field.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

JLC use of these unnamed NFL executives is very lame. Bad reporting. He should be ashamed of himself. We all know that it just his opinions he is throwing out there. Pretty obvious stuff anyways.

Posted by: Stro | September 5, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if Jason Taylor is worth the 8 million per season & two draft picks?

Posted by: Devils advocate | September 5, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if Jason Taylor is worth the 8 million per season & two draft picks?

Posted by: Devils advocate | September 5, 2008 12:58 PM

Guess we'll find out.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I love how everyone always brings up Tom Brady to point out that execs don't know anything. He's called an exception. Do you get that? If there was a Tom Brady every year it'd be one thing but it's not.

Can an NFL Exec be wrong? Oh they can?? Ok...thanks.....

Hang on, Ryan Grant wants to speak next....

Posted by: Tony Romo | September 5, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Jla, Jenkins, Mitchell, I mean, if you can't see their agenda from 3 miles back, then you need glasses....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 12:57 PM

Just Win Baby!!!!

No agenda if you just win.

Posted by: Al Davis | September 5, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Just to anwser a question from early, the Redskins and Giants can start signing players to there roster without the guaranteed penalty.

It is after your game in week one, so if you play thursday you get an advantage over everyone else.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Another new offense to learn...it's gonna be a long, learning process [PROCESS!]. But damn if that didn't look like my 8 year-old-nephew's pee-wee team out there.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 5, 2008 10:04 AM

Do you think the Giants' defense had anything to do with that, or is it entirely on the 'Skins?

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 10:08 AM

If you're asking me a legimate question t-e, then I'm answering with "To me, the 'Skins offense looked like crap, and JC looked overly hesitant making decisions with the ball."
If you're asking me that as the t-e who's got a smart aleck, contrarian comment for anything said up here, then I'll answer with my own question- "Do you think the Redskins' offense had anything to do with that, or is it entirely on the Gints D?"
Either way dude, it wasn't pretty last night.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

++On the one deep ball, Moss had his man beat and STOPPED running

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:50 PM ++


Sounds strikingly familiar to the Playoff game vs Seattle last year. Santana gives up on the pass and it gets picked

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

One thing that many have mentioned is that Zorn took 2 years to develop Hasselback. As a QB coach, maybe he has 2 years to develop a guy.

But he is a HC that was given playoff personnel. Whatever he implements needs to show results much more quickly. Neither Zorn nor Campbell has 2 years.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Damn i'm getting soooo pumped up for the season to start !!! What time do we start kickin' the Jints a@@ !!!!

Posted by: mr. sarcasm | September 5, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Ryan Grant? Why don't we wait till Romo wins a playoff game and Ryan Grant plays well for more than half a season

Posted by: That the best you got? | September 5, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

i hope JC is better then Doug Williams he dosent have to be Steve Young and the Skins dont need a Young to winit all we did it with D Williams and honestly he wasnt that good. How about Chris Wilson scoring the sack last night, decision paid off.

Posted by: Stu | September 5, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Brian Mitchell, are you kidding me?? He's grinding a larger axe than JLA? Do you really take that guy seriously?

Jla, Jenkins, Mitchell, I mean, if you can't see their agenda from 3 miles back, then you need glasses....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 12:57 PM

Okay, smart guy. Whose review of last night's disaster of a game DO you agree with? Bonus points if you can point to a voice from a media outlet not owned or controlled by the team. Funny how everyone is out to get the poor little Redskins...

Posted by: Deep Fried Screech | September 5, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

But that Fred Davis pick sure paid dividends last night didn't it?

Brilliant? You could say that I am.

Posted by: Vinny Cerrato | September 5, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Please don't compare those two to me. I'm a 3 times Super Bowl winner and MVP. I scoff at those comparisons.

Posted by: Tom Brady | September 5, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

If we suck bad enough


we might get


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_islQ52F3Qs

prayers = answered

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

BIG BLUE!!!!

saw that coming a mile away. Didn't expect the Giants to keep handing them so many opportunities. But hey, maybe your offense will wake up in time for the 2nd showdown in Washington.

BIG BLUE BABY!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: New York baller | September 5, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Marion Barber is not Brandon Jacobs. He side steps and dances until he finds an opening. He doesn't run over people.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

++On the one deep ball, Moss had his man beat and STOPPED running

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:50 PM ++


Sounds strikingly familiar to the Playoff game vs Seattle last year. Santana gives up on the pass and it gets picked

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:01 PM

I saw that as well but I thought they had to wait on the ball, allowing Ross to catch up, because JC was late in releasing it due to evading a pass rusher.

Posted by: skinswest | September 5, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't HELP but see the "startled deer in the headlights" look on Jason Campbell's face, all game long!!!
Just remember, the Skin's would not have made the playoffs last year with him starting every game. For those who keep making excuses on the different systems he's been in, it was Brad Johnson's, first year in Norv Turner's system, he still won the division & a playoff game! Anymore excuses for this guy?

Posted by: jaff S | September 5, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

stu, good call on Wilson, my only problem was that he didn't play until very late in the game. The rotation of players to me was another problem, that needs to be ironed out. Wilson, E. James, Betts, D. Thomas all needed to have more playing time.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

It was pretty clear that there is a lack of trust/confidence. Not sure where it is. Does Campbell not trust Zorn? Or does he not trust his WRs. Or do the WRs not trust Zorn?

They are not on the same page. The biggest risk is that Zorn loses these guys.

For example, how does this team not go no huddle with 6 minutes and down 2 scores? Someone has to stand up and lead. Zorn, Campbell, Portis? Someone has to say "lets go no huddle, we're here to win"

This has to be fixed.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

All I came here for is to get a quick idea of the injury situation coming out of the game from our "Redskin Insider", and all I get is the usual mystery source bashing the Redskins. How about some information?

They lost a game they should have lost, it's not time to scrap everything and rebuild.Good thing JLC isn't running team, or the mystery source.
The D started slow, but held up very well later, and the offense looked like a team still trying to learn a system, playing against the Super Bowl Champions. Did you really think they would come into game one, and torch the Champs? Come on!

You should change the name of this blog to "Redskin Basher". Honestly, every time I come here, I am reminded why I had stopped reading this blog the last time.

Posted by: Jason | September 5, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that remembers Campbell as a West Coast passer WITHOUT a big arm. A guy with great accuracy but not a Peyton Manning type?

Isn't that his scouting report from the draft.

When did he suddenly develop all this arm strength?

Just because he wears the same number as DW that doesn't make him the same type of player...

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Truth,

That guy plays with more emotion then our entire team.

He made so great INT's

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I said the above column and forgot to put my name in...

Posted by: Jeff V | September 5, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm Deep Fried Screech. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I hope not. Steve Young is terribly overrated. See Trent Dilfer.

Didn't Campbell go undefeated in the best conference in the country running the West Coast offense in college? Wasn't he, like, offensive player of the year in the SEC that year? He wears 17, but I'm not sure he's Doug Williams.

To me, he hasn't been making bad throws, he's just not reading the defense fast enough. Everybody just calm down.

Posted by: Mike H. | September 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Marion Barber is not Brandon Jacobs. He side steps and dances until he finds an opening. He doesn't run over people.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 1:08 PM ++


No way, dude. Barber is a beast. Don't give me that Cowboy-lover crap either. This is an honest opinion from a Skins fan. Barber is the Truth.

( Uh-oh did I call upon The Truth ??!!??!!)

Posted by: cej75024 | September 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one envisioning that JLa is driving, driving, driving in his car, squealing with glee and having an imaginary "I told you so!" confontation with Vinny and Danny?

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 11:23 AM

Nope. I'm sure the rest of your buddies at Redskins Park are equally POed at a reporter for th HATED WaPo doing his job.

Posted by: Corkczar | September 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Anon, I never heard anything about a lack of arm strength in a JC scouting report.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

It was pretty clear that there is a lack of trust/confidence. Not sure where it is. Does Campbell not trust Zorn? Or does he not trust his WRs. Or do the WRs not trust Zorn?

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 1:10 PM

If I was JC, I would not be to trusting of my Oline right now. That doesn't excuse his poor play when he did have time though.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

So wait, you guys aren't worried that we looked more like South Carolina last night than a professional football team?

Maybe we should give Zorny a chance to fix some things and grow into the job, but I'm pretty damn concerned about his playcalling and game management.

Posted by: Nobcentral | September 5, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I saw that as well but I thought they had to wait on the ball, allowing Ross to catch up, because JC was late in releasing it due to evading a pass rusher.

Posted by: skinswest | September 5, 2008 1:09 PM

Moss quit on the play ... Ross not only caught him but passed him and was in better position than Moss to make a play on the ball.

I doubt that pass is completed anyway, but Moss can't quit on the play. If Campbell doesn't trust his WRs, I can understand. Thrash had two catchable passed that were incomplete.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

So, we have to watch LL get run over by Jacobs 943 times but they give almost no airplay to Portis absolutely destroying the DE on some meaningless play in the 2nd half? I realize the Jints won, but man, 215 crushing 275 is more impressive than 265 crushing 210. That's just me tho'. Portis rules.

Posted by: [cc] | September 5, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Different season same story - new offense; growing pains. I'm sick of this story. I can't see why all the whiners want change when that's what you get 9 times out of 10 - growing pains with change. Unless the whiners are like sick gambling addicts that think the next change will be the big one - the one change that heal all that ails this team.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 5, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

cej, Barber is a good running back, but he's 40-50 pounds shy of Jacobs. And in the three years he's been playing the Redskins, Barber has YET to go over 50 yards rushing in a game. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, he's a really good player.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

No it wasn't pretty but there is one positive to take out of the game, if there is one. Both units - def and off - got better in the second half compared to the first half. It was a little too late but they were better. Coaching on the other hand got worse. 4 minutes to go in the game and you're huddling up and calling running plays???? And to have Madden call us out on it was even worse.

To look forward to next week - Saints don't have a RB that weighs 264 lbs. and they are weak in the secondary. A lot more so than the Giants.

Don't judge this team off of one game folks. It's a long season and things can change. Wait a second, gotta hit this Ricky Williams hooch again. LOLOL

Posted by: rbbbbbb | September 5, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

We need to have these rookie WR's out there, JC needs someone bigger to throw the ball too.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

When did Jason Campbell ever succeed in a vertical passing game?

You can find an executive(Louis Riddick) to say whatever you'd like but the reality is that the only time Jason Campbell has ever had success in an offense it was a West Coast offense. Sure, he ran it one year, but prior to that one year he was considered a late round draft pick at best.

The thing I find funny is that the "Executive" described the Redskins offense the last 3 years "Seven-step drops. Stretch the field. It's all based off the power run game and the play-action pass. Run deep sideline patterns. Come-back routes on the outside. That's who he is. " Did Jason really succeed in that offense? Not really. He had good moments but didn't succeed so for an "Executive" to say that's "Who he is" is assanine.

Posted by: CVille | September 5, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Man, that was fun last night. You all had us Giants fans feeling like there actually could be a title defense, and the overkill coverage of the 'Skins is delicious the day after a loss.

Posted by: Schadenfreude | September 5, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I listen to the John Thompson show everyday and B-Mitch has an agenda against the FO.

But I agree with him in calling out the players, they need to step up and play with more heart.

They were lazy in the preseason whining about having to play, and they came out last night and the intensity was not there.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Those who constantly claim that Jason makes up these people for sources with out proof are as crazy as those who beleave martins colinzed the earth. No offence Tom Cruse.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

"No way, dude. Barber is a beast. Don't give me that Cowboy-lover crap either. This is an honest opinion from a Skins fan. Barber is the Truth.

( Uh-oh did I call upon The Truth ??!!??!!)

Posted by: cej75024 | September 5, 2008 1:12 PM "

Looks lime someone drafted Barber on his fantasy football team.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Noticed two things from last night:
1. JC was waiting for receivers to get into routes. He was not delivering the ball in space which is how the WCO operates. Way too tentative. He was reminding me of another Skins qb hopeful, anyone? Patty Ramsey. JC/Zorn is a WIP but so far we haven't seen anything to be optimistic about.
2. Our front four looked extremely average. We were getting ran on all day and not generating enough pressue to help out our DBs.

Posted by: Snyderatto | September 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

NFL Executive = Ozzie Newsome

Posted by: For real | September 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Alex,

He might not make the sources up but he knows who to talk to to get the response he wants. You do not have to be on this blog for more than a day to realize Jasno has an agenda against the FO's.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I really hate to say this, which is why I am anon, but the best thing that can happen to this team is Campbell gets hurt and is put on IR ending his season and career with the Skins.

We throw Tasty Collins in for 2 games and he either swims, confirming last year was not a fluke, or sinks....

If Collins sinks we get to see Colt Brennan. There is just absolutely no doubt in my mind that Colt brought a ton of energy into the game which had a huge positive impact on the team.

Finally, for the naysayers what is the difference between:
Campbell - 3 and out and a 35 yard pount
Colt - 40 yard drive and an interception on an aggressive play?

Campbell's biggest weakness, amongst many that he has: absolutely like a concrete statue back there...can't run a lick!


Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Real clever there, Anon. Stealing lines from the movie Anchor Man. Good show!

Now, would you or one of the other members of the tinfoil hat "ZOMG tehre's a media conspiraceh against teh Redsksins!!!111!1eleventy!!!" contingent care to point to an unbiased assessment of the game that has anything favorable to say about the level of play by the team overall?

Posted by: Deep Fried Screech | September 5, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

7. Zorn really did need to learn what he's got and what he hasn't. The preseason didn't answer a lot of questions
Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:50 PM

Actually, the preseason answered a lot of questions, it's just none of us 'Skins fans like those answers. The O and D lines are suspect, CP can block better than all the TEs, the secondary is super thin, the LB corps is the team's strength, Zorn has a ton to learn, but seems to be a quick study (at least he learned clock mamnagement from Gibbs 2.0 quickly), the WR corps is almost as weak as the DBs.

To sum up, this is going to be a long season, and at best I'm expecting 8-8.

Posted by: Lordthrog | September 5, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

LEAVE MY REDSKINS AAAAAALOOONNE!!!!

OH, I am sorry! YOU CAN HAVE THOSE SORRY REDSKINS.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Looks lime someone drafted Barber on his fantasy football team.


Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:25 PM ++


Actually, I have Portis.....oops !!!

Posted by: cej75024 | September 5, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

One of the only positives I saw from last night was Portis. The guy is a work horse, and he kills d-ends almost every game! He runs against 8 in the box all night and still gets 84 yards! What are we going to do when he gets hurt? What are we going to do against a great offense next week? We are in trouble!!!! JLC, get some info out there instead of trashing the Skins with a secret NFL exc. Man up and say their really your own thoughts! Any one hear Collin Cowherd today? He is an A$$!!!!

Posted by: redryan400 | September 5, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Someone said the SEC was not the NFL...


ummm, might as well be

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Why don't the Redskins have a GM. This team has been making all the wrong moves for years. You don't trade picks away for a washed up Taylor unless your a player away from a SB. We need to start building our lines through the draft. i.e. Dallas. Then you go out and sign a guy like T.O. on offense.

This team will NEVER be good with an owner like Snyder.

Posted by: Fire Vinny | September 5, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Man i hate our fans sometimes. Everyone in DC does not have to have an afflilction with the Backup QB its the same story every year every week. If im a backup QB in the league im praying I go to DC you get to be the toast of the town without doing sh*t. if you think that Collins would do better the go to St Louis and follow Saunders Collins is done and never really got started. And you want to put colt in there, please the NFL d would eat him alive. go back and watch the hawaii UGA game it would be very reminnesent. STOP BASHING THE STARTING QB THE GRASS ISNT ALWAYS GREENER, especially in our current situation.

Posted by: Stu | September 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Man, that was fun last night. You all had us Giants fans feeling like there actually could be a title defense, and the overkill coverage of the 'Skins is delicious the day after a loss.

Posted by: Schadenfreude | September 5, 2008 1:23 PM

Easy there guy. I'd be pretty concerned if I beat a team that looked as bad as we did last night by only 9 at home. You're still coming in last in division.

Posted by: Mike H. | September 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

are some of you people serious. the whole republican-esque bs about media bias is way over the top. if i didnt see it on every thread id of thought it was parody.

we all know (besides a few delusionals) that there are major questions about campbell's viability in the offense. don't shoot the messenger. read USA Today if you want vapid substanceless optimism.

let the kid go deep Zornie baby.

Posted by: FreeDC | September 5, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

JLC was in NYC last night, so we can assume the unnamed "personnel executive" was either a scouting director for the Giants/Jets or a figment of his imagination used to cover his constant negative reporting of the team. The other teams have a vested interest in anonymously criticizing the Skins and JLC is happy to pass along their BS propaganda.

It's also plainly obvious that some of those observations are true -- the defense needs to stop the run plus the offense needs to be able to pass the ball and score points -- it's also obvious that the sky isn't falling and they are mostly correctable through game time experience.

Of course most people are missing the fact that the Giants are the Super Bowl winners. They have a very good offensive line, a huge power running back, stud receiver, and an excellent defense + they were at home. They backed off the pressure defense in the 2nd quarter and just started eating the clock with running plays. They are going to be able to run the ball on almost every NFL team....

The Skins have their hands full trying to learn the new offense with all these road games to start the season...

Posted by: Siris | September 5, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Brandon Jacobs needs to be banned from the NFL for running like a Mac Truck.

Posted by: L. Landry | September 5, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

How long are we going to stick with Joe Gibbs' quarterback of the future - Jason "Can't Ball"? This all seems like deja vu, is "Can't Ball" the reincarnation of "Boo nell"?

Its gonna be a long and painful season at least until there are some bench splinters in Jason's bottom.

Posted by: Jim B | September 5, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

i look at it this way, at least we will not have the pressure of going undefeated like the pats had last year

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't care what the end season score is, I want Zorn to know what he is doing by the end of the season, thats about it.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Reed Doughty tackles like a sissy.

Posted by: B. Jacobs | September 5, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

i look at it this way, at least we will not have the pressure of going undefeated like the pats had last year

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:36 PM

But we still have the pressure of not going winless, like the Dolphins did last year.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

4 wins at most. Its not Zorn's fault the team he inherited was put together by a retard. This past draft was the worst I've seen in my 30 years of watching the Redskins. We've traded picks, made terrible picks and now we're going to pay with a lousy 4 years.

Posted by: Cerrato Blows | September 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Did I miss it or did the Giants already win the Superbowl? They are NOT the Superbowl champs people, how many starters have they lost on D? 6? I know at least 5.

Minus Shockey being gone (and yes I'm aware he wasn't there for the SB run last year), but this is NOT the Superbowl champs. They are a 1-0 NFC East team right now. I only saw Strahan BEFORE the game, didn't see him one snap after the game started.

DRAFT KNOWSHON
DRAFT STAFFORD

SUPERBOWL '12!

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Right it had to be a guy on the Jets/Giants because its not like the Skins game was the only one in the league being played or anything. And no way JLC could have made a call while driving.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Casserly (woops! football executive) for the most part, however, I go one step farther, Campbell has only a strong arm and for him to be effective he needs to have at the very least 5 minutes to find his first option, 10 minutes to decide what to do if the first option is not open, 15 minutes to find a second option or an empty field to dump the ball, and a couple of years to learn that he has had a 3rd and 4th option available all the time.

Posted by: bNb | September 5, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure who looked less alive last night: The Redskins or John McCain

Both were listless, out of sync, mistake ridden, and excruciatingly boring to watch.

Not a good night for typical Washington insiders.

Posted by: UGLY | September 5, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Right it had to be a guy on the Jets/Giants because its not like the Skins game was the only one in the league being played or anything. And no way JLC could have made a call while driving.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:39 PM
Call when driving, what are you talking about not like we have some futuresitica Star Trek talking comunicators we all keep in our pockets.

Posted by: 35332 | September 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Brandon Jacobs punked the Deadskins secondary.

Posted by: A. Kutcher | September 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

is 16-1 really THAT bad people?

Posted by: 16-1 | September 5, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

is 16-1 really THAT bad people?

----
Um no its not, but we can't go 16-1

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

An anonymous player wearing number 17 was overheard saying:

what? I had other options?

10 yards, not 2?

Posted by: bNb | September 5, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

This team is obviously in rebuilding mode. I have been saying this since January. I think this is the real reason Gibbs left-he could see the writing on the wall. The O-line and defense are below average and OLD. Zorn clearly needs help. One person can't be HC, OC, and QB coach. My main thought on the game was-giving up our 2nd round pick for Taylor was idiotic. Danny and Vinnie delusionally thought this team was a SB contender when they are actually below average and rapidly deteriorating due to an excess of old players. This year can answer 3 questions. Can JC be an NFL QB? I think he can be an NFL QB but he is obviously not a WC QB. Can Heyer be an average starting NFL tackle? Can Zorn be an NFL HC?

Posted by: jk123 | September 5, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

The guy who should be coaching this team is down in Jacksonville and the guy who should be running this offense is in St. Louis. Snyder and Cerrato are two greedy, worthless individuals. Have you ever heard Cerrato talk, the guy is a complete boob.

Posted by: GBanian82 | September 5, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

That is a spot on assessment of what went down last night. The Redskins are trying to cram a square peg (Campbell) into a round hole (Zorn's offense). The two throws he looked best on were the desperation shots at the end of the game when he could actually stretch the field. The blame for last night rests squarely at the feet of Vinny Cerrato. He decided it would be good to reinvent to offense (again) and put in a style not conducive to the QB he had on the roster. They may have finally succeeded in ruining Jason Campbell. But he plays a mean game of racketball and Zorn is a likeable guy so Jason will take the fall if things continue this way. He'll just have to go win somewhere else.

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Do you think that Napelon, Sally Jenkins, and the exec from the Ravens had a threesome last night and decided best which way to bash the Skins? Let's ask the exec why the Ravens have no QB or "quality" depth in a lot of positions?

Posted by: I love Sally Jenkins | September 5, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I'd much rather ask that exec how to win a Super Bowl and then pass it on to Vinny.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I had no idea that Joe Gibbs was still coaching the 'skins.

Horrible play calling, stupid penalties, and even more horrible clock management.

Who knew Gibbs was still the 'Skins coach.

Posted by: Reality | September 5, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

The point about being beaten at the defensive tackles is one that is important. The Jints do have one of the best power run games. But Griffin has been a stud when healthy. Fletcher made a lot of tackles, but if the d tackles are doing their job, Fletcher is hitting guys near the line of scrimmage, not 4 yards down field.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 12:57 PM
______________________________

I noticed the offensive backs for the Giants were literally giants, and they ran right through our secondary like they were toy men. It looked like a rock'em, sock'em robots game.

Another observation -- was it Zorn who asked for the stretchy tights leggings (like Seattle has) this year, instead of real football pants? Everybody looked like they'd lost 30 pounds in the thighs!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

If you want to find a genuine ray of sunshine in last night's game, I suggest you look at the play Moss stopped on. He has his man beat and with good execution for the rest of the play, it is a TD.

If Campbell and Moss can hook up on that type of play, the entire offense will improve.

The WCO is a quick hit offense which draws the defense close. A few deep balls for TDs and you stretch the defense. Its not the WCO philosophy to go deep often, but there is no reason to be a purist either. Moss is fast and Campbell has a big arm. You can run a WCO and a few plays a game take the deep shots. Might make a lot of difference.

If I'm Zorn, I add that into the mix a bit more often

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

If I'm Zorn I retire sometime this week.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

ehren, what type of offense did JC run at Auburn his senior year, when JC was voted MVP of the SEC??

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

for all of you nuckle head's at auburn he had all day to sit in the pocket.in the nfl he is not going to have that much time to sit and think about who he is going to trow to.this offense does not fit him. if they don't make a change we will have a high lottery pick.

Posted by: D.C. | September 5, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

and the guy who should be running this offense is in St. Louis.

Ummm, no thanks. I've seen that offense before, and 20 pts/week was not going to be our average.

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Carlos Rogers has the sweetest set of butterfingers...

Posted by: WhinersRUs | September 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I had no idea that Joe Gibbs was still coaching the 'skins.

Horrible play calling, stupid penalties, and even more horrible clock management.

Who knew Gibbs was still the 'Skins coach.

Posted by: Reality | September 5, 2008 1:58 PM

-------

Oh, and I forgot to add, the inability to convert on 3rd down.

What a pathetic game.

Posted by: Reality | September 5, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I think the Skins can probally win the SEC this year. MVP goes to Tebow though.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Where's Jeff Galuli with his pipe to go after Carlos 'Hands of Stone' Rogers when you need him.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Marion Barber is not Brandon Jacobs. He side steps and dances until he finds an opening. He doesn't run over people.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 1:08 PM

+++++++++++++++++
So, last night was your first NFL game? How did you like it?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

ummm, Tebow is nothing.


MVP = this year's Heisman = KNOWSHON ROCKWELL MORENO

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

dude(va), i do watch oprah. she used to be good until she got bought up by people and corporations. and i don't read. but no one is being overly sensitive here. you can express yourself in the same manner without getting personal. it's an unwritten rule i guess. to keep things real on the internets as possible. it makes no sense to name call. none. anyone can name call and "show" how tough they are.

just so you know i'm not going to e-mail you but if you do get an e-mail claiming to be me please don't go and put yourself in harms way. internets can be a dangerous place. no condscending bs intended. for real.

i usually don't get upset when i hear name calling but let's just say today's not such a good day. and you're the lucky one.

and i didn't re-post my stuff...someone else did it for me (very funny guys!)

have you had lunch yet? sorry i was driving and couldn't reply sooner.

greg, it doesn't matter if jason or sally fudge the truth a lil bit. not today. maybe in the future when snyder comes to his senses and team is actually credible.

then he can take away all access for post and post will deserve it. but that's not happening anytime soon. that's what i'm saying. you're right. snyder deserves this. he's done nothing to not deserve this. he deserves all the bad press and i don't care (but i know you do) if it's fudged a lil or not. not only his product and company suck but his way of doing business sucks. and he's a *fill in a word here*...

i don't have any hangups on being a republican. i side with republicans on major issues including their non-iraq war foreign policy. like most cabbies do.

btw...f pierce!!! again!

4th, you ever notice the hostess at chop house? i think she's got the hots for me. for real. as soon as i walked in i had to look behind me to see if it was me that she was giving that look to...and then when i was leaving...it was confirmed.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to play a few games of Madden 09 to get a sense of urgency in play-calling and clock management.

Posted by: Nintendothumb | September 5, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

P.S.

Larry Michael's head just exploded.

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

4th, you ever notice the hostess at chop house? i think she's got the hots for me. for real. as soon as i walked in i had to look behind me to see if it was me that she was giving that look to...and then when i was leaving...it was confirmed.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 2:08 PM

LOL YEAH RIGHT

Posted by: LOL YEAH RIGHT | September 5, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Heisman= Pat White. Last nights game reminds me about the boundless love i have for the errs, they have only lost 5 games in the past 3+ years. Thanks

Posted by: Stu | September 5, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn needs to play a few games of Madden 09 to get a sense of urgency in play-calling and clock management.

Posted by: Nintendothumb | September 5, 2008 2:09 PM "

I should've picked up my controller and held Y late in the game.

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

deal, sorry, might not matter to you, but when you lie, in order to support your bashing of the FO, then yeah, thats a problem.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

A couple of comments on comments made here:

"JC was to be the QB of the future" Yes. and we should keep it that way, at least until the future get here. There is big bench where he can sit and wait.

"They might have finally succeeded in ruining Jason". There was nothing to ruin.

"This year can answer 3 questions". Yes. But my questions are: Why are you supporting this organization?
When are you going to stop the support? Why do I bother with this?

"if you think that Collins would do better the go to St Louis and follow Saunders". Why go to St. Louis when Collins is here? And yes!!! He will do better.

bNb you are riot!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone get the feeling that the ol' ball coach wouldn't settle for this? He woulda been firing missles toward the end zorn.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Todd Collins is the best guy on this team to run the West Coast. Otherwise, they should have kept Brunnell, or traded back for Brad Johnson to run the West Coast.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Anyone remember your boy AMTTS saying this months ago? I do. Doesn't matter. Here we are. Ewwwwwwwww.

The mistake isn't Campbell. You can't blame the car because the driver has a flat top and has called as many NFL plays as 4th Floor in his entire life.

Here's what we got out of our draft last night:

1 3rd down reception for 6 yards when we needed 7
Below average punting.

Ladies and Gentlemen, The Vinny Cerrato Era!

My problem with all this is 2-fold.

Fold 1: I have to watch this all year and read the comments about how we have to 'learn the scheme' and adjust to the offense and blah blah blah. If that's really the case, then no team should ever change coaches ever under any circumstances. I'm not cool with wasting entire seasons with amateurish football in the name of learning the offense.

Fold 2: How is it that those who are paid to see this coming did not and dudes like me, who are not compensated in any way, saw it from a mile away. The Z man was so overmatched on Sunday. Who knows if that improves or not. What I do know is that it was horribly unfair to Campbell to try and squeeze him into something he's not designed for. 'You did well on your LSAT? Great, come over here and operate on this spleen'

Cripes.

Posted by: ArtMonkToTheSticks | September 5, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

I think what they are saying is that Collins only can play the saunders system Anon.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe people are knocking the "NFL exec." What he said about Campbell is so obvious. He is Doug Williams, a big guy with a slow delivery who can make certain passes. He couldn't run Al Saunders system at all, and he is even worse with Zorn's. The problem now is Collins isn't so great either with the WCO. His mastery of Saunder's system covered up his deficiencies somewhat.

Zorn is in a tough spot. He can't just trash the offense he was brought in to run. But he will not be successful with it using Campbell. He likely will not last long enough as coach to get another QB either. If I'm him, I call lots of naked bootlegs and 7 step drops and hope Campbell gets his bell rung so I can move on. The sooner we get Colt in there, the better. We could have won that game last might if he was playing.

Posted by: AAA | September 5, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Why the hang up with running the WCO. That fixation (or goal if you will) is messed up. The WCO is not Redskins ball. We don't wear no sissy dresses in this town mister, we throw the ball downfield with unrivaled success. The WCO doesn't feel right, breaks from our tradition and should be jettisoned when Zorn pulls Colt's trigger on Sunday.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Todd Collins is the best guy on this team to run the West Coast. Otherwise, they should have kept Brunnell, or traded back for Brad Johnson to run the West Coast.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 2:14 PM

What proof do you have that Collins can run a WC offence? When did he play one before Zorn? Brad Johnson does not play a WC offence either. Brunell kinda does I guess.

Posted by: 35332 | September 5, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

ehren, what type of offense did JC run at Auburn his senior year, when JC was voted MVP of the SEC??

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:01 PM

I am so sick and tired of hearing about how Campbell ran the WCO at Auburn for one year. So what. I think people who say that have little to no understanding of football (which baffles me because it is not a complicated game). You say that like the WCO is one thing, a set of plays, rather than a general philosophy with many different incarnations. Did you watch Auburn in 2004 (and if you did, did you understand what you were seeing?). I didn't watch them so maybe you can enlighten me. Was it a quick tempo passing game? Was it based on short passes and receivers running after the catch? Pass first to set up the run (with Williams and Brown I doubt it)? Three and four step drops? Were the patterns the same? Does one year in college mean that a person understands a Pro Offense well enough to run it in the NFL even though all their NFL experience was in another offense? Do you not think that Campbell's strength is stretching the field? If that experience at Auburn was SOOOOO valuable then why hasn't he just taken right off where he left off four years ago? Give me a break. I love Jason Campbell. I'm probably one of his bigger supporters. But Vinny set him up to fail by bringing in Zorn and his version of the WCO. JLaC posted way back during the search that Gregg Williams' first choice was to keep Saunders, not because he loved the guy, but because he understood that it was best for Campbell's growth. Yeah, he apparently mentioned Zorn's name, but the first choice was Saunders. Vinny and Dan got rid of Williams, they got rid of Synder, they got a guy that they liked personally. Well the buck stops with Vinny, but Jason might be the guy to take the fall since he probably isn't as good at racketball. And I'll be happy to eat crow, nothing would please me more.

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn is in a tough spot. He can't just trash the offense he was brought in to run. But he will not be successful with it using Campbell. He likely will not last long enough as coach to get another QB either. If I'm him, I call lots of naked bootlegs and 7 step drops and hope Campbell gets his bell rung so I can move on. The sooner we get Colt in there, the better. We could have won that game last might if he was playing.

Posted by: AAA | September 5, 2008 2:17 PM "

PLEASE STOP TALKING

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I saw the routes and read the defenses, while JC looked lost.

Posted by: Geico Cave Man | September 5, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

AMTTS, i don't know if you saw my post or not last night but i'm campaigning for you to be the skins GM!!! you made one pick and an awesome pick that was. even madden was going on and on about LL.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Geico,

So what you're saying is that we should all be clamoring to have you inserted as QB? Quit eating your own cheese buddy.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

BTW, JC ran the Gulf Coast offense his senior year not the WCO.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Chris Cooley did his best impression of a matador, when he was supposed to be blocking people.

Posted by: WhinersRUs | September 5, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I got worked like a $2 unscrupulous woman of low moral standards last night.

Posted by: Laron Landry | September 5, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

OK this is getting ridiculous. I don't care if JC ran the WTO, he ain't cutting it in this system. Zorn needs to go back to basics, implement what he knows from experience. He should bring in Largent, go over their old game plans and routes, and structure the Skins plans thusly.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

For those who insist on bringing up the Auburn senior year WCO thing. Why don't you look at this tape and tell me if this offense looks like it prepared Jason to run Zorn's version of Holmgren's version of Bill Walsh's offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bd7BoF5zbY

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I HATE Larry Michael!!!

Posted by: What? Who? | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

So what you're saying is that we should all be clamoring to have you inserted as QB? Quit eating your own cheese buddy.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:23 PM

I'm saying Neanderthals deserve some consideration.

Posted by: Geico Cave Man | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

this is pretty funny to sit back and watch....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I too got worked like a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money;

Posted by: Chris Samuels | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe people are knocking the "NFL exec." What he said about Campbell is so obvious. He is Doug Williams...

Posted by: AAA | September 5, 2008 2:17 PM
--------

And they're both black

:)

Posted by: Mr. Obvious | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is trying to fit square pegs in rounds holes. Campbell's strength is as a vertical passer which is predicated on being able to establish a running game first and then using play action passes. Our two top WR's Moss and Randel-el are poor fits for the West Coast offense that Zorn wants to run. Any team that has successfully run the West Coast offense has possession WR's with size and strength to run the slants, crosses, etc. Weren't Jerry Rice and John Taylor both 6 2" or taller? How about in Seattle?

Zorn needs to realize quickly the West Coast offense doesn't play to the stengths of his QB and WR's. The OL is weak in pass protection and would benefit from the use of play action passes. Is it going to take Zorn an 0-4 start to figure out he needs to fundamentally change his offense? I only hear him being critical of JC for locking in on one WR and making it seem like there were guys open downfield to throw the ball. He's going to ruin what's left of Campbell's confidence and we'll soon have another Patrick Ramsey on our hands.

Cerrato needs to be held responsible for hiring Zorn and making poor draft picks instead of addressing the needs we had on the O-line, D-line, and secondary. Zorn will be the fall guy and Snyder will try to convince Cowher to take over the team next year.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm not as pessimistic as many up here. Zorn has a much better idea of what can work and what won't. He does need to adapt the game to the personnel, but every coach has to do that.

I can't explain some things, like Moss stopping on his deep ball or why the Skins didn't go no huddle with 6 minutes left. These guys must know better.

If the Skins can sign McMullen, I'd expect to see that happen today. Probably should have happened last night as soon as the game ended.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Lol, yeah you guys did get worked. Luckily I was never anywhere close enough to the ball to get worked. Just watched the tape and never saw myself once.

Posted by: Reed Doughty | September 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is trying to fit square pegs in rounds holes. Campbell's strength is as a vertical passer which is predicated on being able to establish a running game first and then using play action passes. Our two top WR's Moss and Randel-el are poor fits for the West Coast offense that Zorn wants to run. Any team that has successfully run the West Coast offense has possession WR's with size and strength to run the slants, crosses, etc. Weren't Jerry Rice and John Taylor both 6 2" or taller? How about in Seattle?

Zorn needs to realize quickly the West Coast offense doesn't play to the stengths of his QB and WR's. The OL is weak in pass protection and would benefit from the use of play action passes. Is it going to take Zorn an 0-4 start to figure out he needs to fundamentally change his offense? I only hear him being critical of JC for locking in on one WR and making it seem like there were guys open downfield to throw the ball. He's going to ruin what's left of Campbell's confidence and we'll soon have another Patrick Ramsey on our hands.

Cerrato needs to be held responsible for hiring Zorn and making poor draft picks instead of addressing the needs we had on the O-line, D-line, and secondary. Zorn will be the fall guy and Snyder will try to convince Cowher to take over the team next year.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone answered the question about where is Billy McMullen? How can a WCO team go into a game with a total of 4 WR's on the roster? Malcom Kelly being the 5th and he is still hurt. I think McMullen would have caught that ball that Thrash dropped in the endzone. Thrash is a nice guy but when he is one of the 4 WR's on your roster, you're in trouble let's face it. Sign Billy. He is big, young, and deserves change in my opinion.

Posted by: KevinMichael | September 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Take that West Coast garbage with it's 3 yard patterns back to the West Coast. This is the East Coast. Smash Mouth Football!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Hey just wanted to say that I should kill myself. I missed a tackle in the open field on who has to be the least athletic QB of all time....time....time...

Posted by: Rocky Mac | September 5, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I think what they are saying is that Collins only can play the saunders system Anon.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 2:16 PM

There is the problem. "THEY" don't know what "THEY" are doing.

We have the following choices:

1. A proven ineffective QB as starter
2. A young unproven buck exciting the masses - Another "QB of the future"? How many of those do we need?
3. A maligned QB who did nothing more than take a bad team, save it from disgrace, and put it on the playoffs last year. A QB who seems to KNOW that there is more than one option in the field. A QB that gets rids of the ball quickly and effectively, A QB that does not require a brick wall to protect him.

I take door #3 Alex. Like George Allen said: "The future is now".

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Ah the power of CHEESE!

Posted by: Pitch Man | September 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Do you not think that Campbell's strength is stretching the field?

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 2:19 PM

No I do not! When has Jason ever excelled at stretching the field. Throwing the ball a long ways is not stretching the field. Throwing long completions is stretching the field and there were countless posts on here and articles in The Post talking about how Jason needed to get better at completing long passes. Do you forget how many times last season he missed Moss and even Brandon Lloyd on deep passes when they were open?

Don't confuse a guy that can throw the ball a long ways and who has a strong arm and assume he's not suited for a West Coast offense. Elway could throw a ball as hard and long as anyone and he was a WCO QB when he won Super Bowls. So was Brett Favre and so is Donovan McNabb. Three of the strongest arms in the NFL.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

The Skins Giants Game will be replayed. Due to Reed Doughty never showing up on the field the skins complained that they were playing with a man down the whole time.

Thanks Reed.

Posted by: Breaking NFL News | September 5, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Hey could someone come to the studio and remove the marbles from my mouth? Thanks.

Posted by: John Thompson | September 5, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Chris Simms anyone? knows the WCO and has a big enough arm to stretch the field? Thoughts?

Posted by: Anon | September 5, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Ranking Redskins coaches:
1) Pettibon 2) Ol' Ball C. 3) Norn 4) Zorv 5) Allen

OK fellers, ah'll come clean. It's me Slim Pickins from Big D, just back for a sec or two to raz my team's former worthy adversaries up in Frisco East. Luv yer WCO...che, che, che, he he he

Posted by: Slim Pickins | September 5, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I know one guy who enjoyed the game on the Redskins sideline: Jon Jansen

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I don't like the WC offense. I find it very offensive.

Posted by: bNb | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to realize quickly the West Coast offense doesn't play to the stengths of his QB and WR's. The OL is weak in pass protection and would benefit from the use of play action passes. Is it going to take Zorn an 0-4 start to figure out he needs to fundamentally change his offense?

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 5, 2008 2:27 PM


Are you seriously suggesting that after training camp is over and after ONE REGULAR SEASON GAME that they change the entire offense and that it is going to be productive? Tell me you're only frustrated by the loss and don't know what you're saying because that might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on this board. You want to install a completely new offense that the head coach and offensive coordinator has never run before in his life and you expect this to be a positive solution for the team. WOW! I'm really glad you don't have a voice on how this team is run.

Posted by: CVille | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Larry Michael's is a tool.

Posted by: Kool-Aid Man | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Randle El should be the 3rd WR and he should not be the punt returner.

BTW, did anyone see CPortis's poor attempt at making a Barry Sanders juke? CP has no moves.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

We live in an era of NFL coaches that have their "system" its how they do things, with little variation. You could argue that this hamstrung gibbs 2.0 b/c he fell into that trap. Gibbs 1.0 had many different teams depending on strength personel (smash mouth, Posse etc)

This is the problem, this is why coaches dont last...what teams (other than ahem Pats...) actually take a look at what they have and THEN come up with a system that serves those strengths.

Zorn is going to run WCO so we either buy in and players adapt, or get new players, or dump him and start over with another dude that is married to his system..

The great Ken Beatrice used to rail against this all the time....scheme for your players!!!!!

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Anon.
Its still a different system which Collins did not play in before. As far as getting the ball out quickly and knowing where the WR's are. If you look at the same playbook for 10 year sure you know where they will be. Collins looked lost in pre-season as much as JC did. He would be just like JC in this offence, with less mobility and arm strenght.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Biggest problem is that we all have something called expectations. Redskins fans expectations are very high, and rightfully so. Problem is they cloud our judgement on what the reality is. The reality is that we are not a very good team, nor will we be anytime soon. If you want to analyze each specific problem we have...go ahead...enojy it if it makes you feel better. All of them will lead you to the same place. We are not a good team. Period, end of discussion. Anyone who thought going into this season that we were is just too big an optimist.

Whether or not Zorn, JC, CP, etc. can make us a better team remains to be seen. Personally I don't think they can and we have been in the same funk since Gibbs I and still haven't climbed out. I don't pretend to know what it is going to take to make things better, but I do know to root my a$$ off every single week for the Skins hoping for a W. I just go into it expecting little. Numbers don't lie, and for the last decade at least, we have not been a good team. If that science can't teach you to lower your expectations, than you are all hopeless. Trust me, if you did, you wouldn't feel the need to make yourselves crazy every game the defacation hits the ventilation.

Posted by: Madison | September 5, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I know everyone up here dislikes Deion Sanders, but I think we need to send all of our DB's to camp Deion next offseason. It works for Cromartie, O'neal, Bailey, Hall, need I go on. here is the link about Deion and what he does. at least could teach our DB's to catch.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-deionthementor090308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Posted by: Great One | September 5, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

The problem is not Zorn's fault. Gibbs stocked this team's cupboards with nail broth, while Parcells was loading up at Gourmet Giant.

It's time for Zorn to think out of the box. First, to keep them humble, issue Keds in place of their current cleats.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

The great Ken Beatrice used to rail against this all the time....scheme for your players!!!!!

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM

So what do we do with the guys here than? What is the scheme?

Posted by: 35332 | September 5, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

The great Ken Beatrice used to rail against this all the time....scheme for your players!!!!!

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM ++


I like Jim Zorn...he's a good guy who runs about 200 or so when he's soaking wet. He's around 54 or 55 , again I memerize birth year not birth day's....any how yyyyyyyoooooooooouuuuuuuurrrrrrr next !

Posted by: Ken B | September 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I was completely unaware so many EXPERTS posted on RI. I mean, you all are employed by an NFL team right? You all are either in the scouting dept. or you run the offense, right?

Or is that not the case....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Crazy glue a football to Carlos Rogers' hands, so he gets a feel for holding onto the ball.

Posted by: Whambulance | September 5, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

I was completely unaware so many EXPERTS posted on RI. I mean, you all are employed by an NFL team right? You all are either in the scouting dept. or you run the offense, right?

Or is that not the case....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:43 PM

Congrats Anon you win the "Lamest Post of the Day Award."


This is a blog with a comment section what would you have us talk about?

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

chrIS lArry -- I'm in a similar place. Adapt the WCO to your guys talents. You don't have to throw away the playbook and start over. You do have to figure out what parts of the offense work best and adjust it for guys to succeed.

The WCO has been around a long time and teams have figured out how to defend. When Walsh introduced it, no one understood how to defend it. With players like Rice, Montana and Young, it was an awesome thing.

But if you're using a 25 year old playbook, you won't be fooling defenses that often. Its the adjustments that you make that will tell the story.

Zorn has plenty of adjusting to do. I hope he is thinking clearly because this IS fixable.

Posted by: AL Zeke etc | September 5, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

BTW, did anyone see CPortis's poor attempt at making a Barry Sanders juke? CP has no moves.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM

That is a truly idiotic comment.

Posted by: Ehren | September 5, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell has a "tell." The D-linemen know when he is about to snap the ball. I read a quote last year (can't remember who said it) that he lifts his hips just before he calls snap. Justin Tuck was getting ridiculous jumps last night.

Anyone else notice this?

Posted by: Ben | September 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

How about you stop acting like you know football, and have all the answers as to what the Redskins should do.

Most of you couldn't handle coaching a High School football team. Stop pretending to know all the answers...

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

CP will still hit 10,000 yards in 2 seasons.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Ben, Tom Brady must do the same thing, did you watch the Super Bowl? He's just a great defensive linemen. He's quick off the ball, not sure JC is telegraphing the snap.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Lack of a big WR hurts JC big time. Not that I like the guy, but Chad Johnson would have been a great fit. Hopefully Kelly and Thomas can turn into that prototype WR that the WCO needs.

Posted by: Alex | September 5, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Or you could just stop reading the comments? I know, I know that would make all too much sense. Carry on with your stupid comments.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Ben,
I think the fans will chant for Collins before Brennan.

Been through that before: Sonny/Billy O to have that choice now.

We want Eagle Day. We want MC Reynolds. Long ago in a place not far away.

Posted by: BigJ | September 5, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Anon,

OK wise acre, by extrapolation should citizens of this Republic stop talking about political reform because they might give the impression (to some anonymous Goober on a blog) that they believe themselves to possess some answers. In the words of Mike Ditka, Who Ya Crappin.

Posted by: Bud Jackson | September 5, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I always fall for the fake beep beep....dangit...

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I'm with the Anon. You guys commenting on the Redskins on a blog called "Redskins Insider" is ridiculous. Let's talk basket weaving.

Posted by: Da Truef | September 5, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Fiddle-dee-dee!

Posted by: Scarlett O'Hara | September 5, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

We live in an era of NFL coaches that have their "system" its how they do things, with little variation. You could argue that this hamstrung gibbs 2.0 b/c he fell into that trap. Gibbs 1.0 had many different teams depending on strength personel (smash mouth, Posse etc)

This is the problem, this is why coaches dont last...what teams (other than ahem Pats...) actually take a look at what they have and THEN come up with a system that serves those strengths.

Zorn is going to run WCO so we either buy in and players adapt, or get new players, or dump him and start over with another dude that is married to his system.

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 2:37 PM

You make a great point Chris. Teams are defined by their systems and I think that's a byproduct of the length of service time for the coaches. Gibbs 1.0 lasted 11 years. Belichick has been there 8 season and Cowher was at Pitts. for 15 years. They had the time to reinvent themselves over the years.

The thing I think you're overlooking is that there is a fundamental system in place with all three of those teams I mentioned. Once the team has established a full understanding of that initial implemenation of the offense then that offense is tweaked to suit the personel but the fundamental style stays the same. Gibbs 1.0 was a fundamental Power Running offense with a deep play action game. When they had 2 WR's to start when he got here they ran a lot. Once they got three WR's and one of the best O-Lines ever they threw more 7 step drops because they had the personel. This year, it's been 1 regular season game. The players don't know the offense yet and Zorn doesn't know who fits and who doesn't. As the year goes on they should improve and if they don't then he'll know he doesn't have the personel.

Time is the main factor here. If Zorn doesn't show progress next year then he'll probably be gone as you suggested. You have the find the personel to suit the offense and then the offense has to be tweaked to suit that personel. But a coach has to coach what they know and Zorn specializes in a WCO.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I know that was not fun to watch. We saw our rookie punter play well. A defense that made adjustments. A chip block from Portis that made even the Giants fans smile (which I would watch the game again just to see). The offense looked bad. Hope for more but expect reality. Everyone calm down, we've got a long season ahead of us.

Posted by: Leizear | September 5, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

There are 15 games left. The Skins will be fine.

I predict a big turnaround next week at home against the Saints.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 5, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The Miwuk Indians in Northern California were renowned for their triple-weave weed baskets. Bill Walsh modeled his WCO on the intricate short weaves in these baskets, dated from the later half of the 18th century. Source: Stupidia

Posted by: Bud Jackson | September 5, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Not that I like the guy, but Chad Johnson would have been a great fit.

Posted by: Alex | September 5, 2008 2:51 PM

There IS no Chad Johnson

Posted by: Chad Ocho Cinco | September 5, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

JC is starting to look like that first pick congressman: wide eyes (deer), not checking off - being locked in on the primary receiver, does not know how to audible.
Give me a brake.
With a QB like that, don't blame the OL.

Posted by: johnbear1 | September 5, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Once again, Jason Campbell proves he is not a NFL quarterback - it's time to yank him.

The Redskins will finish with a 4-12 record.

Too bad, Danny Snyder !

Posted by: Gary | September 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"I was completely unaware so many EXPERTS posted on RI. I mean, you all are employed by an NFL team right? You all are either in the scouting dept. or you run the offense, right?

Or is that not the case....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:43 PM"

How lame is this post....if the NFL didnt have millions of fans thinking, having opinions, debating...they wouldn't be rich....ask the NFL if they want us all to shut up????


What a D-Bag....

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Also, at the risk of sounding like Norv Turner (Motto: We've got to make plays), we didn't make plays last night, and there WERE opportunities aplenty.

Carlos Rogers dropped yet another INT, as did Smoot (although Smoot also caught one) and Moss dropped a sure first down in the second half when he was thinking about running before he had control of the ball.

My point being that yes, it's a cliche (making plays) but it's also true.

If those plays are made, it's a very different ball game, and perhaps the Redskins even win.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

at least spurrier lost last night....


but i am shocked nobody is talking about the moss play that he got his helmet taken off of, he did not have possession till after the giants hit him, that should've been a touchdown

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Give me a brake.
With a QB like that, don't blame the OL.

Posted by: johnbear1 | September 5, 2008 3:01 PM

What kind? A handBRAKE, a bicycle BRAKE, a car BRAKE...?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Influx of newbies up here today. Welcome folks, and play by the rules or else we will have to thrash you.

Posted by: RambleOn | September 5, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

The Skins Giants Game will be replayed. Due to Reed Doughty never showing up on the field the skins complained that they were playing with a man down the whole time.

Thanks Reed.

Posted by: Breaking NFL News | September 5, 2008 2:32 PM

Incorrect. I saw him clinging to Brandon Jacobs’ ankles like one of those little terrier dogs. What a stooge.

Posted by: Jeff Van Gundy | September 5, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

campbel has the football IQ of a goat

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I predict a big turnaround next week at home against the Saints.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 5, 2008 3:00 PM

Skins are going to have a hard time stopping Brees, Bush, 6-foot-4 receiver Marques Colston, McAllister and Shockey.

Posted by: Whambulance | September 5, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

campbel has the football IQ of a goat

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:07 PM

That's an insult to the goat.

Posted by: WhinersRUs | September 5, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

campbel has the football IQ of a goat

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:07 PM
------------------

Hate to agree, but I swear it's like I can hear JC thinking. Tick-tock tick-tock..... then when he makes a decision he then pats the ball, then go into the loopy wind-up, then release. Won't work in fast-tempo WCO

Also, there seems to rarely be a second option, if the first option doesn't pan out its a busted play or sack. WCO requires quicker reads.

Again hate to say, but wondering if that intelligence test that Soups scored miserably on is actually worth something.

Posted by: RambleOn | September 5, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone expect the Redskins to go to New Jersey in the first game of the season and beat the world champs? I certain did not. They pitched a shutout, for crying out loud, in the second half. True, we did not score then, either. But this offense will is a work in progress. My one concern is that that Campbell is a big strong-armed qb who may not be right for the system. The Redskins need to mold the players they have around a system not try to force the players to fit the system. The system should not be king. Ever. The personnel should drive the team.

Posted by: Roy Hobbs | September 5, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Can you hear me now?

Posted by: Annoying Verizon Wireless Geek | September 5, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Also, there seems to rarely be a second option, if the first option doesn't pan out its a busted play or sack.

Posted by: RambleOn | September 5, 2008 3:14 PM
_______

You said it. The f'ing tight end (presumably second or third option) was WIDE open on at least three plays last night.

Posted by: Kelli Johnson is Hot | September 5, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Anyone remember your boy AMTTS saying this months ago? I do. Doesn't matter. Here we are. Ewwwwwwwww.

The mistake isn't Campbell. You can't blame the car because the driver has a flat top and has called as many NFL plays as 4th Floor in his entire life.

................

Posted by: ArtMonkToTheSticks | September 5, 2008 2:15 PM

Is that me you're talking about? It sounds like a complement to me and a stab at JZ.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 5, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

4th, you ever notice the hostess at chop house? i think she's got the hots for me. for real. as soon as i walked in i had to look behind me to see if it was me that she was giving that look to...and then when i was leaving...it was confirmed.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 2:08 PM

Are you talking about the Steakhouse or the Salad place?

Posted by: 4th | September 5, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I have said it for a while now, with his hight, JC needs to pass from shotgun more. When he is crouched down you can always see which half the filed he is looking to throw the ball, becasue he never looks to the other side.

Have him stand up, see more of the field. There were plays where on screen you can see a corner is going to blitz, JC never checks that side of the filed and !POP! blitzed and the WR is standing uncovered.
JC never sees it never puts the ball there.

Stick with shotgun especally in that 2 minute drill.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

It wasn't just Tuck, a lot of the Giants D-linemen had impeccable timing. And watch JC before the snap. He does start to lean back a little. I'm telling you.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Smoot has hip pointer

Redskins 360 (View Blog)
POSTED September 05 2008 1:50 PM BY David Elfin

Fred Smoot left Thursday's game at the Giants in the third quarter with a back injury, but on Monday Zorn said that the corneback instead has a hip pointer which is painful but shouldn't keep him out against New Orleans on Sept. 14. Zorn also expects cornerback Shawn Springs, who sat out with a calf injury in New York, to be ready. Top special teams tackle Khary Campbell's quadricep, which sidelined him in the preseason finale against Jacksonville, tightened up on him during the coin toss on Thursday and kept him out against the Giants. But Zorn thinks that Campbell will play against the Saints. Defensive end Jason Taylor said this his sprained knee "has been worse and has been better" but he made it through the game OK and should remain in the lineup against the Saints. Rookie safety Kareem Moore could return from the hamstring that sidelined him on Thursday but rookie receiver Malcolm Kelly probably won't play as he continues to recover from an ailing knee.

-- David Elfin

Comment on this Blog

Comments 1 - 1 of 1

By: Jason72
Thank You sooo much for this info on the injuries coming out of the game. I checked that other guys blog looking for this info, but all I got was the usual Redskin bashing.

Won't make that mistake again.

September 5, 2008 at 2:11 p.m.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/redskins/2008/Sep/05/smoot-has-hip-pointer/

Posted by: Elfin to da Post with one comment | September 5, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

that wasn't me....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I just watched Zorn's press conference...

wow, just wow.


When asked about the clock management in the 4th quarter I could not believe how unprepared he was to handle the question. Last night in the locker room was one thing, but at lunch time today.

Posted by: isnadd | September 5, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

We can debate this all we want and say it was this and that...To me it's pretty clear cut. WE NEED A QB! Jason Campbell is a bust. and I know "he has had a different system" BLAH BLAH EXCUSES...Last season Collins prooved it..the offense was going JUST LIKE LAST NIGHT and it was a different system. Jason got hurt and Collins came in. BAM the offense moved ...the ball was thrown deep for Tds...and they went on a winning streak. Adding that Collins isn't all that and he was not taking reps with the starters...but yet as soon as he came in it was like night and day. I feel Zorn is forced o start Campbell because of what was invested but Bottom line JASON CAMPBELL SUCKS...he does not move or direct his team with urgency and he can not read his wrs down filed...holds on to the ball too long...I believe collins or even Colt would play better...at least they make choices and get rid of the ball instead of being scraed to wing it.

TRADE HIS A$$

Posted by: Leevi | September 5, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Greg - Did you see Antionio Pierce point to the hole the Skins were going to run through a few times? Especially on 3rd and shorts. He would listen in to Campbell's last minute instructions and then point to the hole.

I smell something fishy if you ask me........

Posted by: 4th | September 5, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I think there is ONE thing we can all agree on....Antonio Pierce is a total jerk!!! Do I hear an Amen?

Posted by: Lisa | September 5, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Who ARE all these people? It reads like "jumpers night" down at the Golden Gate Bridge on here...

Posted by: Redcoat | September 4, 2008 10:37 PM

Most astute observation since the game ended.

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

AMEN Sistah......

What an ass that guy is. How he didn't get an UC flag on that fight with Kendall is beyond me.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Further thinking on the, play to our players strenghts. CP, is a great RB, but I want them to get him running off tackel more. To do that we need to go with more offset I, or 3 wide sets,so that the FB can engage the linbackers smoothly. Big Mike can block but always seems slower so giving him a 1-2 step lead would help, and if CC cant run block, keep him out of the running game all together.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

I think there is ONE thing we can all agree on....Antonio Pierce is a total jerk!!! Do I hear an Amen?

Posted by: Lisa | September 5, 2008 3:33 PM

Agreed Lisa...did not like him when he was here either.

Posted by: Leevi | September 5, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Just watched Zorns presser..."will he ever be like steve young or Matt Hasselbeck?" Zorn replies..."he'll never be steve young" OUCH...nice answer...Thats a question you don't respond like that....I mean damn he just said Jason isn't all that...lol NICE

Posted by: Leevi | September 5, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Elfin thanks. There was a comment about that earlier when it was reported in Zorn's presser.


So I think we all agree that Zorn must work to the strength of his personnel. As Lennon once said, "I don't believe in Beatles I believe in my self."

I am the Walrus...

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell has a "tell." The D-linemen know when he is about to snap the ball. I read a quote last year (can't remember who said it) that he lifts his hips just before he calls snap. Justin Tuck was getting ridiculous jumps last night.

Anyone else notice this?

Posted by: Ben | September 5, 2008 2:49 PM "


This is important because it's true. I'm not sure if it is every snap, but JC definitely leans back a decent amount right before the snap. Definitely a tell, which is exploited easily at this level.


Redskins 16-1 baby!

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting tired of rolling over in my grave!

Posted by: Jack Kent Cooke | September 5, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

greg we knew it wasn't you...it actually made sense and took a critical eye towards the team and play on the field...

When we see "greg" and how Sally Jenkins lost the game...we know its you.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Sally Jenkins sucks !!

Posted by: Slippery Richard | September 5, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

JC aint no Tom Brady. Nor is he Matt Hasselbeck! He is not even in the class of Tim Hasselbeck!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

AMEN Sistah......

What an ass that guy is. How he didn't get an UC flag on that fight with Kendall is beyond me.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:35 PM

Reffs may not have seen the whole thing, if you missed the first punch by AP than it looked like they both just were going at it. On TV it was clear that AP hit him, then they grabbed face masks, then AP got his helmet ripped off, then he tried to headbut Kendal after that. He has emotional issues.

Posted by: 35332 | September 5, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

There you go anon, jam your head back up your spinchter, where it belongs.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Marty Schottenheimer tried to install the West Coast 0 w/vertical passers, and his one an only MNF game looked much the same as last night's. Ken Beatrice said that Marty would never win a championship becasue he was too stubborn to change his system to fit his personell, but insisted on the system no matter what. Coach Zorn is at a fork in the road. He needs to ditch the West Coast 0. He doesn't have 6 games against the Cardinals, 49'ers, and Rams. He needs to take Don Shula's advice to new coaches, "It's important to win early and often."

Posted by: You'rrrrrrrrr Next! | September 5, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Injury updates. Fred Smoot has a hip pointer, which Zorn described as “Okay, just a painful injury.” Zorn expects him to be ready for Sunday. Shawn Springs couldn’t put weight on his foot yesterday, and there was no update on his condition. Jason Taylor came out of the game no worse for the wear. Kareem Moore continues to nurse his hamstring, Kedrick Golston is recovering from a jammed knee, Khary Campbell a “nagging grab of the quad,” and Malcolm Kelly is still in wait-and-see mode.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

You guys are giving me the heeby jeebies. Time for some pizza!

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: beep | September 5, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I thought that Zorn had an expression last night that reminded me of Art Shell when he coached the Raiders. Lost and bewildered. I sure hope they can solve some of these issues.

Posted by: splitbill | September 5, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

This blog is dead to me.

Posted by: BMAC | September 5, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Scrap the whole thing. Cut everyone over 30 and start from scratch. If you are going to lose you might as well do it with young players who dont make much and will give constant effort. Griffen, Jansen, Thomas, kendell, Taylor, Smoot and Rogers are garbage.

Posted by: John | September 5, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I don't know where to start...

First off to all the people here that say preseason means nothing... now what?

To everyone waiting for the light to come on for Jason Campbell forget about it it aint happenin...

He is who we thought he was...

Posted by: trailblazer302 | September 5, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

It's not the line, either. Dallas' line was criticized until they made the switch from Drew Bledsoe to Romo. Parcells blew an airhorn at 1.9 seconds and hollered to Bledsoe that he'd be hit by then. With Romo's quick release, Dallas' line was suddenly great.

Posted by: Yourrrrrr Next! | September 5, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

NO body is asking Campbell to be Steve Young....but McNabb is a QB with similar attributes as Campbell that runs a version of the west coast offense.....

Farve is another that is a vertical passer that flourished in a west coast system that catered to his strengths, that's what we need to do here....

everyone needs to relax this is going to take time, it is a new system that is completely different that what we have run for decades....

my biggest concern with respect to fitting the system are the starting wideouts.

Posted by: guinness4health | September 5, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

To echo another posts sentiment, how come no one is talking about Moss' circus catch when his helmet was knocked off? He gained possesion well after contact. That should have been a TD. The refs blew it big time on that. That was a game changing play.

Posted by: Stilgar | September 5, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

The Saints will be smelling blood next Sunday if the Skins come out disorganized again it will be worse than last night.Zorn needs to take a media class, don't throw your players under the bus 101. This has all the makings of the Ste ve Spurrier debacle from a few years back except Zorn might give a damn,how is it that Sean Springs is probable but then his calf tightens up, please, man up and stop wimping out on your teamates. Kudo's to Portis on that block and to Andre Carter for playing hard for the whole game.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | September 5, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Influx of newbies up here today. Welcome folks, and play by the rules or else we will have to thrash you.

Posted by: RambleOn | September 5, 2008 3:05 PM


I don't have a pettibone in my body.

Posted by: Jenna | September 5, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

JC had a successful year his senior year in the WC offense, but that was because in college you don't have the speed or skill that defenses have, so he got away with it.

He has a loopy delivery and needs time to sit back and read. He is just better set for a shotgun offense than a WC offense. Brennan is much better suited for this style, but what amazes me is that is Vinny that stupid that he didn't realize this happens when you bring in completely new staff and schemes? Why not find a candidate that runs a similar offense so that you don't need to redo your roster?

Posted by: allstar1579 | September 5, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm late to this but hey anon-where were Marino and Montana drafted? Were was Farve sitting his first year? How many QB's drafted in the top in the past 10 years are making an impact? Nough said.

Posted by: bishopj36 | September 5, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Zorn's play calling was horrible. No variety. Run Run. Pass only on third and a mile. His lack of experience as an OC was very evident last night. Had 3 time outs near the end of second half and did not use them. Luckily we scored with about 15 seconds left in the 2nd qtr. I feel for JC since Zorn doesn't seem able to adopt his system since he is a new OC. JC needed to throw on 1st down to slow the Giants run defense or at least a screen pass or draw. Even Steve Wonder could see that Portis was going to run on 1st and 2nd down. Zorn threw Jason under the bus with his post game comments. He need to speak about his lack luster play calling.

Posted by: Chick | September 5, 2008 6:41 PM | Report abuse

For a head coach that has never been a coordinator or called plays, Zorn needs to look at himself. I'm sure the media loves him calling out players because that makes a good story but the players don't appreciate it one bit. The players will tire of his act quickly. The Zorn West Coast offense is garbage and his play calling his even worst. Take advantage of your QB's big arm and let him throw the ball down field and get rid of the 3 step drops. Zorn needs to devise a gameplan to take advantage of Campbell's strengths!

Posted by: dcwun | September 5, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

A Head Coach that has never called plays or been an OC and a OC that has never called plays is equal to the blind leading the blind. Mark Brunnell would be perfect for this offense since they don't call any plays where the QB throws over 5 yards.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

The offense is only as good as the QB running it and the fact is Jason Campbell is not smart enough to an NFL QB. They guy scored 18 on his wonderlic test which pretty much means he misspelled his name. He is the ultimate coach killer. Eight new systems in nine years Huuuuummmmmmmmm. Maybe it isn't the coaches after all. Cut Campbell, he is an oxygen thief ANYONE can play as badly as he did last night.

Posted by: David Smith | September 5, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but three things stick out as gross coaching errors. (1) Failure to kick a field goal as time was running out to give the team a chance to win by recoving an on-side kick and a Hail Mary; (2) I have never seen so many third and short passes that were at least two yards too short. (3) The gross return of the terrible and ineffective Redskins screen pass.

Posted by: Roy Lesher | September 5, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Read Jason's articles from last year trashing the skins, they also had this "unnamed NFL Executive". Most of what he wrote was bull!!

No wonder he gets no major breaking news or info from the Skins...

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

jlc, there is no scoop here. an nfl exec told you that a young qb hasnt picked up the offense of a new coach yet. thanks for the expert analysis. relax and stop trying to get hits on your blog...give it a few games before we declare that this team is awful...

Posted by: srao | September 5, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Hello? Is this thing on?

Yes, we have a few problems that Vinny Testosteroni and DS should be able to figure out by now:

> Jason Taylor is a nice addition BUT HE’S NOT A BIG, STRONG-SIDE D.E. LIKE PHILLIP DANIELS. He’s a 2nd Andre Carter – not what we needed. Duh.
> We need 2 big, young, monster DT’s. We’re playing 2nd stringers. Duh.
> We need a couple more big, young, talented OL guys. Heyer and Jansen are both 2nd stringers and the other guys are aging, we need 1-2 more first stringers. Plus we want this to be our strongest unit – dominant. Duh.
> Santana’s still great, but we need another great WR to complement him. Randle El is good but 2nd level and Thrash should be a # 4. The draft was poor at WR, rich on linemen. We should have gotten a strong WR in free agency. Duh.
> Springs is still great, but we need another great CB to complement him (plus he’s getting old). Rogers and Smoot should be # 3 and 4. Duh.

These, as that idiot Rumsfeld used to say (his only good quote, and I’m sure he stole it), are 5 minute decisions, and the first 4 minutes are for coffee.

But here’s the big one. And it’s also easy. JC ain’t the guy. He’s not tough, he’s got a 5-minute wind up & delivery, he’s not fast mentally or physically, he’s indecisive. Ever read the book “Blink”? Stop overanalyzing, just do it. Stop being hopeful about JC, guys. Hope isn’t a strategy.

And guess what? We just may have a Joe Montana on the bench: Colt Brennan. He’s the opposite of JC: tough, decisive, quick mentally and physically, goes to 2nd and 3rd reads fast, and… SUPER accurate. One of the most accurate passers in college football history. 71% overall in 3 years. And… he smoked JC in the preseason: of all 53 NFL QB’s, his preseason stats were:

> Ranked 7 overall (vs. 37 for JC)
> Rating 110 (vs. 71 for JC)
> Completion % of 68 (vs. 59 for JC)
> 3 TD’s (vs. 1 for JC)
> 0 INT’s (vs. 1 for JC)

He’s smart, fast, aggressive, and he just doesn’t miss his receivers, over and over again. And he’s 6’3”.

Do these things and the Redskins will be winning Superbowls again. Vinny, I’ll take your job now, but for 3 times the base salary and a % of the gate and merchandising. Call me, Danny.

~ Long-time Redskin Fan (now in LA) and Executive Management Guru for Hundreds of Companies

Posted by: Problem Solved | September 5, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

By the way, someone above mentions Jason's "tell", showing physically exactly when the ball's about to be snapped...

It's not a tell, it's a SHOUT! "WE'RE HIKING THE BALL NOW!" Jesus Christ, he should be fired for this alone. Along with any coach who isn't catching this and tearing JC a new one for it.

This is Football 101 guys.

Posted by: Problem Solved | September 6, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

It's only one game but the handwriting is on the wall. 8-8 at best.
The Skins need:
A big back ala Riggins, young big OL, young big DL. Power running game, play action deep pass. JC will be a perfect fit, not WCO. He does not have a quick release like Brett F. or Marino.
Bottom line the Skins identity have always been power running, play action deep pass. If you look at the SB years, that's what we had.
The Skins will always be a sorry assed team as long as we have the Vinny-Danny-Tom combo!

Posted by: Redskin fan in SD | September 6, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't mind losing that game, but it's the way we lost the damn game- domination by the G-Men.
JC is fit for a Joe Gibbs type of offense-power run, play action, deep passes.
Colt might be a better fit for a WCO, quick release, accurate, mobile.
If we go 2-6 halfway thru the season, pls insert Colt there for experience, then maybe next year we might have a legit offense.
For defense, pls draft 2 burly quick big DLs. Did you see Jacobs trampled over the defense? pathetic!

Posted by: Frustrated fan | September 6, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

They might as well put in Colt, like, right now.

Posted by: info | September 6, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh wow, more negative garbage from JLC. Booo!

Posted by: BoooToJLC | September 6, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

We are in week 1. Week 1 of a 17 week season. Does no one realize this? Week 1 of a new coach and system. This stuff takes time guys. Let's hold the regrets until the end of the season.

Remember the Marty year when the skins started 0-5 and ended up with an 8-8 record? Can't examine the team until the end of the season. Although, Danny did make a big mistake by going for Spurrier in the off-season.

Posted by: 1 week into season... | September 6, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

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