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Patience With The Passer

Working on a story for the Thurs. paper on JC's development, and the last great hurdle - pulling off one of those John Elway moments and rallying for a win in the dying minutes.

He's struggled there - as young passers so often do - and the play selection, pass protection breakdowns, dropped balls and mismanagement on the sidelines has not helped. Still, Jason is very realistic about it and knows he is not where he needs to be yet on these decisive drives (a lot of people at Redskins Park would tell you they do not dedicate sufficient practice time to live rehearsals of the odd circumstances that seem to plague the end of most Redskins games as well).

Anyway, Jason is completing 56 percent of his passes in the 4th quarter with 4 TDs and 4 INTs and a slumping 68.6 rating. But that's about where the rest of the young QBs in the NFL are.

Jay Cutler? 2 Tds-3 Ints in the 4th quarter, 70.7 rating.
Alex Smith - 57.4 rating in the 4th
Kellen Clemens - 51.4
Vince Young - 56.9
Philip Rivers - 48.2 (Ouch! 2 Tds-5 Ints. Norv has found his perfect late-game muse).

And, for the record, Jason still has a better rating than BBM (Eli Manning) this season: 77.5-77.4
Now, Eli has been better in the fourth quarter (he's also on a winning team), with 7 Tds and 4 Ints and an 86.3 rating. But he's also got a few years on Jason in terms of starts.

In 2006 he threw more interceptions that TDs in the fourth quarter.

So for those piling on the young quarterback in town I urge you to give him time, and I can assure you there is no shortage of NFL teams who would gladly swap places with the Redskins on the quarterback issue.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 5, 2007; 11:35 AM ET
 
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Comments

AMEN! Keep it up JC! This kid is a keeper!

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

You have to wonder if Campbell may have lost confidence in all this. He threw 3 INTs in the last few minutes of the game in or near the red zone against Dallas and TB. He still needs to win a game. I thought the Skins should have thrown on 1st down with 2 minutes left vs Buffalo. Play to win.

Campbell is at his best when he gets in rhythm with his receivers. The Skins need to make sure he can do that through play calling.

A big issue has been the receivers. Only Cooley has been there all year and dependable. Moss has been problematic. ARE has stepped up, but since he injured himself, not the same. Lloyd was a bad joke. Thrash had one good game. McCardell has been wonderful in his limited role and Caldwell has been almost invisible until the last week or two.

Both Portis and Betts can catch the ball and do something with it. Would like to see them run patterns, not just swing passes.

A good, big target receiver would help Campbell a lot. Maybe a HOF guy like Art Monk, now that would be perfect ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 12:01 PM | Report abuse

JC is a keeper. Every qb in the league turns the ball over. Problem is, our head coach's conservative philosophy makes JC's turnovers nearly impossible to overcome.

Posted by: klong105 | December 5, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Late game poise is one issue, but the other is fumbles. JC is second in the league in fumbles (behind only Reggie Bust, err, I mean Bush). Sadly, Portis is tied with JC in that department (5 fumbles).

BTW, I'm trademarking "Reggie Bust."

Posted by: JoeyMack | December 5, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

hey klong, garrard doesn't have any picks!! i'm just messing with you, but jc is definitely our qb. we just need to make sure we are mature about him, if we pull a ramsey and treat him like crap he's gonna regress. we need to stand behind the man, give him his time, he's got less starts than most and is still playing 3 and a half quarters better than them!

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree to klong105. The turnovers get more emphasis as a result of play calling and game management. Let's come out aggressive tomorrow night. Don't know how much longer this weather pattern is supposed to stick around but my instincts say this weather may affect the game plan. Thomas is coming back at a good time. Let's do what works and getting the run going these final four games is important, then play action and passing should develop.

Posted by: straub21 | December 5, 2007 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Do you guys think the return of Randy will make a significant difference in the running game? I try to follow the way the lines play, but always diverge from it. Does Randy do such a good job blocking that it'll change the outcome of the game?

Posted by: student1234 | December 5, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

on a side note...

i always thought BBM was Peyton's nickname. You cant be tellin' me that J-Camp has better rating than Peyton. right???

Posted by: student1234 | December 5, 2007 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Last season, Campbell's best stat was fumbles, I think he had just 1. Really impressive. Because every week, there are about a dozen QB fumbles -- not all become turnovers, though.

Campbell has had a bunch of fumbles this year. His throwing motion is relatively slow. Also, he is about average in 'pocket sense', knowing when the rush is near.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

If you think play calling and "opening it up" are the answers to JC and the offense woes you're oversimplfying it, I think. To get in a rythmn and get it downfield you have to have receivers who can make plays - the Skins for the most part don't. You have to have a QB that can make those decisions and throws (wide open underneath routes don't count), and for now, at least that is a total crapshoot. For tomorrow's game - last time I checked the Bears still had a pretty decent defense, so you really think the Skins offense going to improve dramatically and sling it out against the Bears?
Another thing on Cowher - he's not going anywhere except Carolina when Fox gets fired at the end of the season. He lives in NC and he would have a much better situation there where he gets everything he wants. The Skins need to get younger and more innovative on their coaching staff - basically blow it all up and go with a consistent team philosophy, not the scattershot too many cooks way of the present.

Posted by: bendersx6 | December 5, 2007 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Student. go back to the Bills game and look at the safety. Watch where the blitzing LB comes from and the right guard,
(Thomas's position). He went to double team the tackle with the center. Which left the a free path to the QB.

Now the Bills rushed 6 on that play, so Campbell has a 'hot' read to make and didn't make it. But if the right guard sees the blitz and delays the LB, Campbell probably has enough time to find an open guy.

The issue with Thomas is not his ability. Its how ready he is. Game shape takes a couple more weeks. So on Thursday, he may be there, but don't expect too much.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Good stuff, Jasno. I think, too, that JC's turnovers wouldn't be such a "big" deal if the play-calling wasn't sooo conservative. JC has to feel it's up to him to make yardage/plays since the running game has been just about non-existent in the past few weeks. JC will break out and then all this talk of dumping him will seem silly.

Student--I'm with you, I though "BBM" was for Peyton, not Eli. Wouldn't Eli be "LBM"?

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Klong gonged it!(sounded too good to pass up)

THe play calling does nothing to help JC. We all can see the kid can play and plays well when "he's in a rhythm".

JG/Saunders play calling is not working. Our offense is utterly predictable...and the 'establish the run to set up the pass'/"balanced" approach is outdated.

Today's offense is moving the chains...this way or that way...not sitcking with one way and doing it over and over and over because..."Dog gone it. I know this thing works. It worked before...it's just got to be this way."

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I love some JC but the reason he fumbles alot is because he is holding onto the ball too long when pressure is coming. Once he gets a better feel of pressure and learns that he can throw it away (not like brunell did all the time), he should be fine.

Posted by: SAK2 | December 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

BBM = "Baby Bro Maning"???

Peyton is "HOFBM" (Hall of Famer Bro Manning)

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

You know what would be nice?? Not to be in a position relying on JC to make a game-winning drive every week. Would love to se him be able to take 3 knees and and walk off.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"BBM"-Big Brother Manning?? (I thought)
"LBM"-Lil' Brother Manning?? (or Last Bowel Movement)

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

seanc, agreed. The bills game for the Redskins offense was a classic example of this. Running game was getting a whopping 2 yards per pop. Cooley/Moss had caught 10 for 133 before halftime. The Redskins kept trying to run it, largely unsuccessfully, and basically ignored Cooley and Moss for the second half.

To plagiarize Rick Pitino:

"John Riggins and the Hogs aren't walking through that door. And if they did, they'd be grey, and old, and broken down".

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 5, 2007 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I know but
'Baby Bro Manning' sounds better and it always looks like he's gonna cry when he throws an INT.

Personally, Peyton should be crowned 'HOFBM' because he's there already.

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:38 PM | Report abuse

What I don't understand (besides senseless violence) is that if Joe Gibbs predicts every game will be a dog fight with guts a-flying and the game being decided in the last few minutes (we've all heard that half time interview before) then why don't they dedicate more time in practice to fighting their guts out in the last few minutes?

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Dorf with the best question of the YEAR!!!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Dorf,

Because they spent the last 2 1/2 quarters "fighting their guts out" protecting their ~7 point lead.

We'll run, run, pass 'em to death...and we'll change it up by run, pass, run every once in a while. we'll get tricky and throw a reverse, run, pass every once in a while for good measure.

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Amen, Dorf!!

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

...oh, I'm sorry...I forgot about the 'reverse, PASS, run' that's part of the 700 page offense too.

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

You know what would be nice?? Not to be in a position relying on JC to make a game-winning drive every week.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 12:34 PM

I'm with you, and I'm a JC fan. But...he wouldn't have to make late TDs if they made early TDs. The team has not put the ball in the end zone enough early on, and too many drives are ending with FGs. Jason only has 12 TD's -- 16th in the league.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Also, he is about average in 'pocket sense', knowing when the rush is near.

This is insane, he steps and aviods the rush 9 out of every 10 plays. If he was average in 'pocket sense' he would be getting sacked 35 times a game.

Posted by: sams3 | December 5, 2007 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Sams, he definitely avoids it 9 out of 10 times, but if he drops back 30+ times a game and the line lets only one guy back thats still 3+ sacks a game, and with the blocking they give him right now you are looking at 2 guys getting in the backfield which doubles the number. Our line needs to give jc the time, i'm just hoping that randy is the answer.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The majority of his fumbles are becuase he is getting BLASTED by unblocked defenders. Show me more than 2 QB's in the NFL that take unblocked shots and hold on to the ball consistantly. Almost every time Brady gets hit he fumbles and he is Jesus.

Posted by: sams3 | December 5, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Another indicator of the lack of TD's -- Suisham is 12th in the league for number of field goals -- 22, but 27th for number of PATs -- 19. The Redskins have only scored 20 TDs this year (Suisham missed one). Not the mark of a strong offense.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

doesn't the "pocket sense" also depend on the quality of the line, and ability of the WRs to get open?
yeah, JC should ideally run out of the pocket and throw it away, but as zcezcest pointed out, the bad pickups on the blitz certainly don't help. and it's almost like defenses wait for Betts to get into the game to blitz, cause they know he can't pick 'em up for crap.

i think we should wait to judge Campbell as a total package until he has a full O-line, and receivers w/o nagging injuries.

I get the feeling that this offense could have been MUCH BETTER at this point if they had let Soups run the no-huddle all season.

Posted by: student1234 | December 5, 2007 12:56 PM | Report abuse

tweedr01 I agree but i mean you have to improve the blocking you can't just let people in unblocked. hes a young guy and he is being asked to make desciions in about 1 second before he gets blown away.

Posted by: sams3 | December 5, 2007 12:56 PM | Report abuse

1 out of every 4 pass plays he has to throw back pedaling becuase if he stops at all there is already someone there to hit him.

Posted by: sams3 | December 5, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

And they went for two points two or three times, so that's 22 or 23 TDs. Oh, and they scored one in OT. 23 or 24. The more I think about it, the better they look.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"a lot of people at Redskins Park would tell you they do not dedicate sufficient practice time to live rehearsals"

A lot of people at Redskins Park would also tell you that Jason La Canfora routinely distorts, fabricates, and exaggerates in his reporting.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 5, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

One major issue with JC's fumbles is his loopy throwing motion, which exposes the ball longer. Gibbs claimed recently that he doesn't want to tinker with it though.

Ironically a compact throwing motion is a trademark of Norv Turner and Steve Spurrier coached QB's>

Not hatin, just sayin...

Posted by: smarty_pants | December 5, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

JLaC - STOP PLEASE, the Redskin Insider is turning into the TripleXXXESPN Redskin Insider. Please JLaC stop, I have NO WHERE ELSE TO TURN for UNBIASED REDSKIN COVERAGE.

Posted by: bababooey | December 5, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Yeah people really do need to give JC some time to really develope. He's still young and have a lot of years ahead of him. I think people had very big expectations coming into the seaon. He has progressed but as we can all see he still has lots of room for growth. I get tired of hearing people say put Collins or Brunell in...are u kidding me? JC is the truth and we will see that as time goes on.

Posted by: tamika02 | December 5, 2007 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I get tired of hearing people say put Collins or Brunell in...are u kidding me?

Posted by: tamika02 | December 5, 2007 01:04 PM

Who are you listening to? I have never heard anyone say this.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Three things that would have helped Campbell immensely this year.

The O-line, with Jansen and Thomas down, has been second rate. EVery QB needs more time, but the blitz pickups especially haven't been good.

Santana Moss had so many drops early on and still hasn't been the playmaker he needs to be. If Santana had played at his 2005 level, the Skins would be at 8-4.

Keenan McCardell is what Campbell needs. Terrific pro with good hands. They needed to discover him earlier and use him more often. (full disclosure, I was one of those people who wondered why they would even bring McCardell in for a look ... )

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I get tired of hearing people say put Collins or Brunell in...are u kidding me?

Posted by: tamika02 | December 5, 2007 01:04 PM

Who are you listening to? I have never heard anyone say this.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 01:07 PM

Yeah, it was posted. It was so either completely off the wall or tongue in cheek that it did not warrant any response.

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I still think we need to do more 3 step drops.

1) Gets the ball out quicker

2) 8 step drops with a play action fake A) gives the d line more time to beat the o line X) makes JC take his eyes off the downfield receivers and coverage.

3) Quick slants on a 3 step drop gives our speedy but small WR's a chance to catch the ball and run without someone draped all over them. It also protects them against the hit. 20 yard in's run the WR's right into the coverage where their one-on-one skills are negated.

we are SCREAMING to be a west coast offense

Posted by: Zebraskins | December 5, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

The kid just need some more time. This is his first full year as starter. He will grow.

Posted by: jm220 | December 5, 2007 1:15 PM | Report abuse

You hit the nail on the head talking about the development of JC. This is his 1st full year as a starter and based on what I've seen this year, I wouldnt trade him for any of the other young qbs out there including Eli. We have a potential superstar here and he's heading in the right direction. Things are finally looking up at our QB spot.

Posted by: smoothdj40 | December 5, 2007 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Man, sometimes I really wish we would just put Brunell or Collins in!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Someone super smart want to get the scoring breakdown by quarters for the Redskins games? I'd do it myself, but I'm really lazy.

Who's on it?

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

3 step drops only work when the receiver gets open and JC doesn't consistently put the slant on the target in stride where the WR can run after the catch. It's hard to hit slants also when your core receivers are 5 ft 9. In lieu of that, we ran a lot of wide receiver screens last year and I haven't seen many of those in 07.'

Posted by: gregskins | December 5, 2007 1:35 PM | Report abuse

If you guys don't want JC, either Redcoat or I will take him :)

We'll even be willing to send you our super smart rookie qb in return

Adam

Posted by: argh | December 5, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Sams, I definitely agree with you on that man, I wasn't trying to sound against it. I just wanted to show that if the line didn't let defenders back there 24/7 we'd not only have better production from jc but from the run game. i think the only reason the entire line is having issues is because other teams know the right side has been bugged all year, so they know even if they load our left side the right side should be in check. once randy gets back i hope he shows his experience.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Or how often we do a play action fake?

I have seen that a million times and it just hurts our already substandard O line even more.

Posted by: Zebraskins | December 5, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Pretty much in agreement with the majority of the opinions here. Campbell is definitely a work in progress, but there's a lot of GOOD progress - as opposed to Patsie Ramsey's progress, which involved the development of several permanent dents in his body and a proclivity to freeze up and brace for impact every time he was hiked the ball...

Campbell's pressing plays quite a bit with pressure on, which leads to a lot of 'off' passes being thrown. It would certainly help if the wideouts would catch a bit more frequently, but I think the majority of the problems of rushed passes and fumble are directly attributable to the patchwork offensive line. There's no way you can take a drop back, set, and fire away when you're occupied with figuring out whether it's time to get moving. Even Brady would be hardpressed, if he were actually to get pressure put on him. Oh, yes, and not having to play to catch up in the fourth quarter would help cut down on the pressure situations immensely.

Put in Brunoodle? Hot Toddy? Um, no.

Posted by: FlimFlam | December 5, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone tell me how many games total that redskin starters have missed this season? I would bet the number would be abnormally high when compared to the rest of the league.

Posted by: ederic01 | December 5, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Does Brunell have a pulse?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

One of Campbell's strengths is the play fake, but it needs to be used judiciously. He is especially good when the run fake is to the left and he rolls right. Campbell is pretty good on the move, he keeps his head up and is ready to throw. And he can run effectively if things open up.

Overall, Jason is better than I would have expected at this point. But he does have the one glaring hole in terms of 4th quarter comebacks.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Does Brunell have a pulse?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 01:41 PM
LMGO

Posted by: jm220 | December 5, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has to stop turning the ball over, but I think he will be great with an upgrade of talent at the receiver position. Remember all those armchair coaches that said we should throw more? This is what happens. I have more of a problem with the fumbles than with the picks. For all those that think Gibbs should go...who else would you take? Personally, I think Gibbs should step aside and they should promote from within. This team needs more depth and more talent at the the receiver and D-line positions.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 5, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Nate, I'm thinking it's Stan Humphries or Cary Conklin time.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 5, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse


JC is doing okay. He just needs to improve during crunch time because he tends to lock into a target and not see the defender(s). He also needs to know when to tuck the ball and run to get the 1st down or a score.

As for his fumbling, it's the responsibility of the O-line to push defenders away from him. JC also needs to learn how to sense when a defender is close. I don't know if that can be taught though.

Last but not least, Joe Gibbs needs to stop being so conservative and allow JC to make plays downfield, mistakes or not. JC mentioned on the Doc Walker radio show that Gibbs decided to go conservative with the game plan when the score was 16-5 vs. the Bills. That says it there. Joe Gibbs is one of the reasons why the offense has slumped. That's what angers or bothers me the most. You gotta let the kid play. He's earned the trust.

Posted by: heisted547 | December 5, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Interesting fact; Since the Bears whipped us in the 84 playoffs and 85 reg season, The Skins are 10-3 against them. Gibbsv2 is 2-0. You might say we own da Bears. I feel like we are going to take them by surprise and knock their teeth out. Campbell is going to have a huge game.....Big win. Put it on the board. Chaaampionship!

Posted by: dlhaze | December 5, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Todd Collins has a blog?

http://toddcoll15.blogspot.com/

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad Campbell has had some of those 40+ throw games. I think he learns a lot from that. Seriously, how much can you learn from handing the ball off?

In basketball, teams will let talented rookies shoot and shoot in order to let them develop. Even if its not winning at the time.

Similarly with Campbell. Throwing so much may not be the best formula for winning. But it is for learning.

A big part of 2007 was always going to be about Jason Campbell and what he can do. 3/4 of the answers are good. Now if he can just nail down the last quarter.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Ironically a compact throwing motion is a trademark of Norv Turner and Steve Spurrier coached QB's>

Not hatin, just sayin...

Posted by: smarty_pants | December 5, 2007 01:02 PM


Steve Spurrier sure had a bunch of success coaching em up at the NFL level. And that Rivers kid looks like a lock for the HOF.

Posted by: cdubb | December 5, 2007 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about anyone else, but I am really excited to watch the game on TV tomorrow night. My tree is up, I will have a fire going, cold beer and egg nog, and I have Friday off. What could be better? Is there anything better than watching football at xmastime? Is it just me? A win would make it perfect! Just talking to myself out loud here. It's snowing and I will be leaving work soon, I hope......

Posted by: dlhaze | December 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Tough to mess with a throwing motion. But Campbell has more than one motion. Watch him when he is throwing on the run. He has a much more compact motion and is pretty accurate with a good touch.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

JC is that dude. He'll be fine. I don't think he's experincing anything different than young QB's at this stage in their career.
I think it's several factors that have to do with him not living up to everyones expectations. JC needs to either A)make a quicker decision or B)get the man some dependable receivers. I don't buy the fact that he doesn't have time to throw. Jon Kitna? He doesn't have time to throw. I don't know for sure, but I would say on average he gets about 3 seconds to find someone. In the NFL that is more than enough time to pick a defense apart.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Rub it in, dlahaze.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

How quaint. The lawyer for the "alleged" shooter wants a plea deal...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/05/AR2007120500391.html

Posted by: 4-12 | December 5, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

excuse me, dlhaze.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Exactly heist,

his passing numbers were great in the first half. Why do we fix it when it is not broke? If one strategy is working, why not stay with it?

Posted by: Zebraskins | December 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Who is it that keeps quacking about the Steelers in 2005? Is that realistic or is it apples and oranges? I'm not saying we're winning the super bowl this year (playoffs? playoffs? We can't even win a game and you're talking about playoffs? playoffs?), but RothMcBurger made a Hines Ward (a generous 6 feet) a Superbowl MVP. Can we have a similar game plan? Clinton Portis = Willie Parker, Mike Sellers = The Bus.

Nevermind. That's stupid.

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Plea deal? I'm guessing there are people behind bars who were big Sean Taylor fans ... and won't mind saving the state some money ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Hell with that! No damn plea deal!!!

Posted by: jm220 | December 5, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Diddy, didn't Tony Banks win some games for us, not too long ago? I bet he's available.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Question: How are all for of the accused being charged with involuntary murder? Shouldn't the one that pulled the trigger be charged with that and the other 3 be charged with bring accomplices or something like that as well as the armed burglary charges? Where's all those super smart lawyers up here that BTGO all day long?

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 2:16 PM | Report abuse

My understanding is that they were all originially charged with "unpremeditated murder", i.e. they did not plan to break into the house and kill someone. BUT, I know that the shooter (and I believe that the other three) were indicted on felony murder (which should be first degree murder), which is basically any murder that occurs during the commission of a felony, here, the burglary.

ALL four can be charged with felony murder and found guilty, even if they did not pull the actual trigger b/c they were all acting together in the burglary, so they are all guilty of the same crime even though only one pulled the trigger. That is why lawyers for the other guys are now saying that their client had no idea that the 17 year old was armed, or that he was just going along with his friends on a trip to the other coast, etc. In some states (not sure about FL), you have to have some knowledge of what the other people are doing or plan to do.

Does that make sense? any actual criminal (and not civil who sits at her desk all day) atty want to add anything?

Posted by: suzannepdc | December 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Dorf- I'm definitely no lawyer, but the way I understand it, if you commit an armed felony with someone, and that person murders somebody, it's the same as if you pulled the trigger.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 5, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I always thought Shane Matthews never got the time to develop into a franchise QB.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Anyone ever heard of Cleveland, Mississippi?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to ammend my last post to "Yeah, what suzannepdc said." :)

Posted by: 4-12 | December 5, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Although I think that JC was is and always will be an average quarterback...and the article did not suggest the fumble issue either...I back J-LA on the issue of other teams wishing they had our quarterback.

Posted by: dbussjd | December 5, 2007 2:36 PM | Report abuse

That's helpful...

and on a brighter note, Cindy... its time to bring back the WaPo weather webcam.

Where's the link sister?

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 2:40 PM | Report abuse

J-Cam will be fine, IN JC I believe!

Was that Shane Mathews comment a joke...i sure hope

Barno, man you gotta a hard on for Janso. For the love of gawd get the man his DVD so he can chill out!

I always kinda liked Tony Banks, I mean he sucked, but that second half of Marty's year was about as fun a stretch as we have had since 92, and he did get Jeff George outta town! He has a warm place in my heart for that!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 5, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Marty is still available. Not sure why a 14-2 team fires their coach, especially to replace him with Norv Turner. Just glad to see Norv screwing things up in SD. Jerk.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Just a thought on the Buffalo game:

Edwards is 4-1 as a starter on a 6-6 team. He's good. That last pass gets completed 1 out of 10. Buffalo is a miracle fg by Dallas and Denver from 8-4. They are a good team. How the team even managed to take the field for the game, I'll never know. They did, and here's who they were missing:
Jansen
Thomas
Kendall-bad knee, ankle
Wade-bad knee
Randle-el
Thrash
Moss-heel, groin
Our receivers other than Moss were Mckardell, Caldwell, Mix. None of them started the season here.
On defense our backend was:
Landry:rookie
Doughty: rookie(for argument sake)
3rd corner smoot
Torrence: rookie

The fact we're even competitive speaks volumes. As far as the second half giveaways, ABSOLUTELY Gibbs needs to grow a pair, but I also think teams adjust to take away what little we have, and we simply don't have the personnel to counter. i.e. double Moss and Cooley, where do you go?

Posted by: dbowen11 | December 5, 2007 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Jasno said, "...(a lot of people at Redskins Park would tell you they do not dedicate sufficient practice time to live rehearsals of the odd circumstances that seem to plague the end of most Redskins games as well)."
This concerns me more than naything else. it says that we're not spending time on the art of winning, but we are spending time on the exercise of moving the ball down the field. Winning takes practice just like any other aspect of the game, folks.

Posted by: neilbourjaily | December 5, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

we'll win tomorrow because thomas, are, and sellers are playing. take it to the bank.
not only that, JC kneels to win the game.
23-13

Posted by: dbowen11 | December 5, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

they did not plan to break into the house and kill someone

If this was the case, why bring a gun?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

dbowen, you are on the mark. This team has been hit hard and its been an issue in a bunch of games. And Gibbs does need to row a pair.

Sadly, the biggest difference maker was Sean Taylor. maybe the team MVP. They were 5-4 when and leading in Philly when he went down. Skins probably win vs Philly if he is back there. No way TO has the game he did with #21 back there. And even Buffalo, that last pass to set up the FG, no way that happens with Sean in the middle.

Been a cruel season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry, were you joking about about asking if the Shane Matthews comment was in fact a joke?

Of course it was!

Maybe I should leave the sarcastic comments alone. It appears it doesn't suit me very well.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If Norv Turner is a jerk, what does that make A.J. Smith?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty surprised that we don't devote time to late-game situations in practice.

I know if I were calling the shots, I'd go over the film with everyone, point out what went wrong at the end, and then go out on the practice field and re-create that same scenario, and re-play that scenario numerous times until we got it perfect.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 5, 2007 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Random comment, but someone mentioned Leigh Torrence and it reminded me...Did anyone see how fast that guy was in the Buffalo game? There was a play where a WR had broken free and Landry chased him down. From out of no-where, Torrence came FLYING up the field and would have easily caught the receiver had Landry not been there.

Not saying the guy is a great corner, but it alllllmost reminded me of a Darrel Green moment.

Posted by: -swb | December 5, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

the O gets nasty again this week with Thomas and Sellers back.

Posted by: dbowen11 | December 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Cruel is an understatement. My mom, who doesn't even follow football, knows enough about the injuries and players lost (for whatever reason) that she asked me last week if the team is cursed.

I don't know if they're cursed or not, but I do know they've had to endure quite a bit this season. I think because they've managed to be competitive in every game but the New England fiasco that people tend to forget how many key players have been unavailable or hampered every week.

Posted by: JustMe | December 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm gonna ask a nonfootball question here b/c I know some of y'all are computer gurus. My wife's work supplied her with a laptop to work from home with a "n" card, so we put in a Wireless-N router. I'm going to purchase myself a laptop, do I have to get on with a "n" card or will a "b/g" card work "backwards" with the router? Thanks!

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Report abuse

I think you should practice the 2 minute drill, but there is no way by practicing the scenario from the previous game can prepare you for the next end of game scenario.

Maybe on offense.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, Turner lost me when I read his quote about Irvin.

Norv Turner said, "If they don't put Michael in, then they can forget about Darrell Green (Redskin) because Green is still trying to cover Irvin one-on-one"

OK, I agree its important to support your guy, but Green ALSO played for Turner. In the one playoff game Turner almost won, it was Green who was his usual brilliant shut down CB and then had the pick the should have won it. From that point forward, Turner has been in the a-hole category.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Just, Cruel is SeanTaylor. And Ron Springs in a coma. And Gibbs 2 year old grandson with leukemia.

Even the 'Gibbs must go' people know he is one of the good guys and to see him flounder is hard. Add in injuries and optimism crushing losses and yes, this is probably the hardest season I've ever seen for a pro sports team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Why must we always assume, people...

Norv is my guy? Hell to the NO he isn't! I can't stress that enough. Norv was never my "guy", I was always skeptical of him because he was unproven and he came from Dallas.

I only posed the question because A.J. Smith hired Norv. When it comes to being a head coach, Norv is in many categories. A-hole and inept are just a few. The sight of him makes me cringe.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

NCICU - Your b/g card should work. Most N cards have backward compatability. Give it a shot before you buy a new card.

Posted by: tafka | December 5, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 because of all those things I believe he will step down at the end of the year. It very well may have taken too much out of him dealing with the off field things.

Posted by: jm220 | December 5, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Norv Turner said, "If they don't put Michael in, then they can forget about Darrell Green (Redskin) because Green is still trying to cover Irvin one-on-one"

This is just another reason why Jason Garrett (or any other Dallas assistant) should never be hired as Head Coach for the Redskins.

Posted by: tafka | December 5, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

NCICU - That should have been "most N routers".

Posted by: tafka | December 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, didn't mean to suggest Norv was your guy. Meant to say Irvin was Norv's guy .

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

HAHAA RedDMV....I just had to check on Shane Mathews! You never can tell with some of the asinine comments that fly around up here!

I didn't know that Norc quote.....what a class A d*ck......I can't stand that dude!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 5, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1, it's all good. Oh... and my bad.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

tafka--Thanks for the info. That's what I was hoping.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Is this the snow cam you guys were looking for?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/webcams/snowcam.htm

Posted by: tafka | December 5, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

NCICU -- Who makes your router? tafka is correct that most are backwards compatible; the N spec hasn't been finalized officially yet, but the benefits are so compelling that there's a market... which for you, means that you might want to consider the "upgrade" to N if the price isn't substantially different.

Posted by: daggar | December 5, 2007 3:30 PM | Report abuse

May be a little late, but welcome to fatherhood Nate!!

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Ol' Shane O'Mattie was a natural born looser. For starters he played QB at Florida. Great for college but that is where it ends. Speaking of Florida QB's, does anyone think messy rexy is due for a choke job?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:33 PM | Report abuse

A downer: this nasty weather plays right into the Bears hands.

Watched some of the Giants/Bears game last night on NFL Replay. Grossman drove the team down the field and they scored on that first drive. The Bears were in a no huddle offense. Michael Strahan said later that they were quite confused by that and thus the score.

Hopefully, we can play a no huddle offense tomorrow night...at least some of the time.

Posted by: Lisa | December 5, 2007 3:33 PM | Report abuse

yo, daggar, you should be fine with a a/b/g/n, backwards compatible

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

It's a Belkin router. The difference in price is only $20 to upgrade to a "b/g/n" card from a "b/g" card. Would that be a $20 well spent?

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

best bang for your buck for now and the foreseeable future is still g, you won't notice a difference in speed from the g to the n, but from the a/b to the g/n the connection just isn't the same.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm not worried about the Bears offense doing the Redskins in. I am more concerned about the Bears defense. I don't understand why they fell off the face of the earth. They've essentially have the same people on defense from last year.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 5, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

belkin is some nice stuff, heck if its only $20 def get the b/g/n. that belkin will also let you use macs on the wireless network without having to download firmware.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Just so there's no confusion Up Here, while I have commented routinely that "JC needs to play better", it's not followed by " or we should get rid of him". But if you want the Skins to turn these losses into wins, the burden does get put on his shoulders.
They type of running game we had at the end of last year would make a substantial difference in his effectiveness, but we don't apparently have that luxury. So:
"JC needs to play better if we are going to go to the playoffs this year".

Posted by: daggar | December 5, 2007 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Red, half the bears d is injured and remember they have archibungus, they are cursed on d.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Red, half the bears d is injured and remember they have archibungus, they are cursed on d.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, our offense versus the Bears defense concerns me. Running yards seem like they might be hard to come by once again....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 5, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

For those asking about or talking about the weather and its impact on tomorrow nights game - the snow will be ending within a few hours. Tomorrow is supposed to be partly cloudy, although rather cold with highs only in the mid 30s.

Woulda been cool to see the Skins playing in snow but yeah, gonna be clear and cold for the game.

Posted by: -swb | December 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to all for their input. A reminder as to why RI is more than just Redskins.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 5, 2007 3:42 PM | Report abuse

The wireless G standard is 54Mb/s... the N standard is "up to 300Mb/s"... you might not notice the difference immediately, but you probably won't notice the $20 either.

Posted by: daggar | December 5, 2007 3:42 PM | Report abuse

belkin is some nice stuff, heck if its only $20 def get the b/g/n. that belkin will also let you use macs on the wireless network without having to download firmware.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 03:38 PM

Um, Panties?

Posted by: 4-12 | December 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Hope to see Betts tonight. Portis ran 25 times on Sunday and no way his legs can be back yet. See what Ladell has.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

yeah, I agree about Betts. Not sure why he hasn't gotten more attempts this year?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 5, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Yo Red,

Matthews is not a good qb. But to say he's not because he played at Florida is retarded. I'm a gator, class of '92. Come saturday night, we'll have two heisman winners and two nationbal championships in 11 years. Again, not saying he's good, but he played 10 years, as did doug johnson, and don't forget jesse palmer, star of "the bachelor". Expect "Bad Rex" to show tomorrow, especially if the weather is bad.
Go Gators! Hail!

Posted by: dbowen11 | December 5, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Portis is the better back and should be the starter. But I think a lot of backs have a hard time recovering quickly. It'd be good to let Betts carry the load 3-4 times a year, mostly on games with a short week. Both would probably be better for it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

IS PANTIES THE BEST I GET?!?!

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Hey tweedr01- I kid because, well, I don't know a thing about tech. I'd love to learn, but until then, it's like trying to read Chinese.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 5, 2007 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"REX GROSSMAN IS OUR QUARTERBACK,"

Lovie Smith

Posted by: gregskins | December 5, 2007 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I know I'm late to the party here, but is BBM not Big Baby Manning - which would obviously be Eli ... ?

Posted by: trink | December 5, 2007 4:39 PM | Report abuse

BBM = Big Brother Manning

Posted by: RightWay | December 5, 2007 5:00 PM | Report abuse

After seeing some questions about the 'relative' level of injury to Redskins vs. others I took a quick look at # of players on injured reserve by team. This is not a perfect measure because it counts the same losing a special teams / 3rd stringer as a starter (someone else can do that analysis).

Anyway you do see the Redskins with above average # of players on the injured reserve - 9 vs. 7.5 average. Within the division, the Cowboys have only 2, the Eagles 5, and the Giants 9.

Overall hardest hit this year have been Houston (16), then Miami, Falcons, Bills, and Bengals all with 12. The Bills performance I think is impressive given that I think 11 of these were starters at start of year.

Here is the rest.

Houston 16
Miami 12
Falcons 12
Bills 12
Bengals 12
Jax 11
Packers 10
Bucs 10
Redskins 9
Lions 9
Colts 9
Bears 9
Panthers 8
Rams 7
Cards 7
Browns 7
Broncos 7
49ers 7
Pats 6
Titans 5
Seahawks 5
Ravens 5
Raiders 5
Jets 5
Eagles 5
Vikings 4
Chiefs 4
Chargers 4
Steelers 3
Saints 3
Cowboys 2
source: NFL.com rosters...

Posted by: cleary900 | December 5, 2007 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I like Eli with the BBM= Big Baby Manning

Peyton should be elevated to either HOFBM or simply HOFM
Hall of Fame Brother Manning
or
Hall of Fame Manning.

Big Baby Manning is so apropo for the guy

Posted by: seanc | December 5, 2007 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I'm not too worried about JC yet. He seems to be facing a hurdle he needs to get over at the moment. That last, clutch play... I have a feeling he needs to just make it once to clear the block and regain his confidence.

Good info, though.

Posted by: wayj | December 5, 2007 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know whether Campbell made many game-winning plays at Auburn? He had a powerful running game that he hasn't had this year.

Also, I think those raw numbers of IR may not be indicative very indicative. The 'Skins have Ross Tucker on IR but, sadly, Sean Taylor's not on IR.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 5:31 PM | Report abuse

T_E:
I added ST to the #s.


Posted by: cleary900 | December 5, 2007 5:32 PM | Report abuse

This is the 'Skins IR list from Redskins.com. Eight names, not nine:

Broughton, Nehemiah
Ecker, Tyler
Espy, Mike
Harris, Steven
Jansen, Jon
Lloyd, Brandon
Rogers, Carlos
Tucker, Ross

Now, we miss Rogers and Jansen, but who else on that list would have made a difference in our season?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 5:39 PM | Report abuse

cleary -- Thanks for explaining. Makes sense and that's why I only found 8 on the Redskins' website.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Red, half the bears d is injured and remember they have archibungus, they are cursed on d.

Posted by: tweedr01 | December 5, 2007 03:39 PM

--------------

archibungus has been relegated to special teams according to Lovie's call Monday..no surprise..but he may see some action given the injuries.

Posted by: smarty_pants | December 5, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

I love the snow cam, thanks for posting that link!

NCICURN, thanks, dude!

For what it's worth, I'm a Campbell backer, 100%... sure, he's got a lot to work on, but don't we all? I don't remember ever feeling this good about Paddy Ramsey, or any of the other clowns, chooches and journeymen who've been under center for us since Gibbs I. Go Soup go!

HAIL!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

Weren't you the one who blogged, the very day that Ramsey was signed, "This is the answer to all my prayers!" ?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 6:03 PM | Report abuse

QB being my repeated theme i probbally should way in on JC to this point....My opinion has not changed much from when he first took over last season i still see all the things that make a good NFL qb... The physiscal tools are all there... what has impressed me from the begining is the poise and calmness under pressure those things are still there....there has been a series of small improvements through out the season despite the oline injuries etc...we have not really seen the breakout performance or the game winning rally at the end of the game...instead he plays well but not great or just ok ....My feeling here is overall we just don't have any real play makers...every team, every qb needs help from the players he throws the ball to or hands off to( i will leave out the oline and defense here)... the skill guys need to make something happen...at this point we have very ordinary nfl calibur kind compementary wideouts and running backs who would better if they were not the #1 option but instead #2.... really talking about Moss and to some degree Portis...those guys have overall been big disappointments in terms of big play on a consistent basis moss is hurt and disapears to much in games when he is healthy and portis is really a 205 pound plow horse without much natural instinct or ability to create big plays... and we are in desparte need of someone to step up and make a play ... the more i look at our roster the less i see that person on our team...Portis and Moss are good solid players but not #1 hang your hat on gamebreakers and every team needs to find those guys....long winded as usual...but JC needs to have someone besides cooley to be a threat before you can really say he is or is not a franchise QB....I do know he is the best young QB we have had in a very long time so the first and most important piece in the rebuilding of the franchise may already be in place.....not sayin'

Posted by: Oldschool | December 5, 2007 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Charlie Casserly was on WaPo Live yesterday. Charlie said that he had called different teams around the league and asked them what the Skins need....said he does this as part of him job...not just focused on the Skins. Charlie was told that if we could sign a big time playmaker (WR) we could really go places.

Posted by: Lisa | December 5, 2007 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Old School. Not bad. Campbell has shown a lot. The one thing missing is that intangible: winning. I agree the cast has been weak. Injuries are a big part, but so is Moss and his season. 1 TD, Ugh. ARE started great and then hurt himself and hasn't been the same. The running game is modest. Seems Campbell would be well served with a big WR. I suggested the Skins move up and grab Calvin Johnson in the draft because it could be one of those long running tandems (Jurgensen to Taylor!?), ... but can't complain about Landry. McCardell is the perfect WR for Campbell. If he wasn't 38 ...

I'd like to see the RBs in patterns more. They are both capable and probably more effective.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Dorf asked about the charges in the Taylor case and there also was some discussion of the "felony murder rule." Florida has a felony murder statute. Under Florida law it doesn't matter whether or not they knew the shooter had a gun. Anyone of the co-Ds who entered the home to do the burglary is guilty of felony murder. What is at issue is the punishment. The shooter committed a capital offense punishable by death or life w/o parole. Even though he as been charged as an adult, the shooter isn't eligible for death b/c he was a juvi at time of offense. The others face 30 years.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 5, 2007 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Soup didn't have much of a chance to engineer comeback wins during Aurburn's 2004 13-0 run. Virtually every game was a blow out.

The exceptions were the 2005 Sugar Bowl, which Auburn ended up winning 16-13 after going up 16-0, and the Auburn-LSU game.

The 2004 Auburn LSU game has attained legendary status, known as the The Extra Point(s) Game.

Defending national champion and fourth ranked LSU visited Auburn just days after Hurricane Ivan. The Bengal Tigers took a 9-3 lead but couldn't convert the extra point. Auburn tied the game with 1:14 to play when Jason Campbell threw a 16-yard TD pass to Courtney Taylor. Entering the game, Auburn had successfully converted on 190 points after touchdown; however AU kicker John Vaughn missed the extra point. A rare personal foul penalty was called on Ronnie Prude, and Vaughn connected on the second chance.

Auburn would go on to win the SEC Championship, finish 13-0 and No. 2 in the final AP poll.

Posted by: mugamack | December 5, 2007 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Soup didn't orchestrate too many late-game comebacks in 2003 either. Auburn finished the season 7-5 without any second half comebacks.

Soup did lead Auburn to a "comeback" win in the 2003 Music City Bowl over Wisconsin, but the comeback was from a 3-0 deficit in the second quarter in a game that was put away by Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams touchdowns in the fourth quarter, 28-14.

Posted by: mugamack | December 5, 2007 6:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm REALLY worried about the game tomorrow night. Sportsnet just showed the practice field covered with snow....can't imagine how the team practiced. The Bears could blow us out.

Posted by: Lisa | December 5, 2007 7:04 PM | Report abuse

someone the other day talked about blogging on the can....doing that now...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 5, 2007 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Uh...thanks for the info, Chris Larry - ugh. The things guys say and do never ceases to amaze me.

Posted by: Lisa | December 5, 2007 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Literally blogging your guts out. What happened to optimistic Lisa? I can not take a blow out by a Rex Grossman led team. The season has turned depressing enough and that would be an awful capper.

Posted by: cdubb | December 5, 2007 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Guys let me put this into perspective.

Wouldn't you catch on a little slower on some things if you got a new job at a much higher level?

playing quarterback in a pick-up game is one thing.

Playing in college is one thing

Playing in the NFL. Well you see everyone from college isnt in it. We should count our blessings that we have a quarterback who wants to make progress. Go get'em JC

Go Skins

Posted by: signicolls_03 | December 5, 2007 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Rank rankings

17. WASHINGTON (5-7, previous rank: 17) - According to Jeff Sagarin's strength of schedule ratings, the Redskins have faced the league's toughest schedule.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 8:27 PM | Report abuse

If memory serves, the Redskins had the leagues easiest schedule before the season started.

hmmmm....same schedule.(?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 8:51 PM | Report abuse

talent_eval, dude, what a memory you have! But let the record show I never liked Gibran Hamdan. Waste of a draft pick.


chris LArry, let 'em have it, buddy! Give 'em helL!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, getting a head start on the Crickets! Nice work.

Glad to see the mood up here has shifted from outright gloom and despair to a sort of mellow melancholy.

So, a bit of snow in DC, elsewhere on the East Coast? Will there be more snow tomorrow for the game, or just cold?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 9:02 PM | Report abuse

talent_eval, dude, what a memory you have! But let the record show I never liked Gibran Hamdan. Waste of a draft pick.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 08:59 PM

Yeah, but Gibran was only a 6th or 7th. Patrick was a first. Do you remember that draft? Dan Snyder actually traded down twice and got two extra picks in the third round and still got his man, Ramsey. I don't think either of the third rounders he got stuck. Those were the days when we were better with high priced free agents than with draft picks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

I don't think there's any snow in tomorrow's forecast. It's just supposed to be cold.

Check out the Nats' new ballpark under snow. It's kinda neat.

Posted by: JustMe | December 5, 2007 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I forgot the blasted link. LOL

Here it is: http://clarkconstruction.oxblue.com/clarkhuntsmoot/

Posted by: JustMe | December 5, 2007 9:16 PM | Report abuse

hmmmm....same schedule.(?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 08:28 PM

Stumped,

Before the season they hadn't scheduled us to play New England or Dallas. Those were oversights. We were scheduled to play Miami four times, so the schedule looked pretty easy. Once they realized the mistake... Don't you remember ScheduleGate?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 5, 2007 9:44 PM | Report abuse

I got me a 2 hour delay tomorrow!!!

Just found out the game is on NFL Network... so disappointed!

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 9:59 PM | Report abuse

NFC East has been one of the toughest divisions, 21-11 versus the rest of the NFL.

The Skins also play the AFC East and NFC North which combine for .500 record. The parity games they play -- supposedly vs the weakest teams from the other NFC divisions are against AZ, who is 6-6 and TB who is 8-4, Which turns out to be the toughest parity games of all the NFC East teams.

Overall, the Skins opponents (counting NFC East teams twice because we play them twice), 28 games over .500!

We'll play by season's end:
12-0
11-1 (twice)
10-2
8-4 (3x)
6-6 (4x)
5-7 (3x)
3-9
0-12

If the standings stay roughly the same, the Skins will have played 8 or 9 games against playoff teams.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 5, 2007 10:04 PM | Report abuse

seanc, quit confusing everyone...

BBM = Big Brother Manning
LBM = Little Brother Manning

Those idioms became blaws last season. You can't possibly change something once its been blawed.

Next thing I know you'll want BYGO to stand for Big Youthful Gay Orgies

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, where the heck have you been, dude? You've missed all the hand-wringing about the Thursday night NFL Network games, and the slapfight between the NFL and the cable companies about fees and all that?

Well, sounds like you can spend those two hours tomorrow morning finding a sports bar!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

haha, sorry nate.

Between work, grad school and life... I haven't been much of a RI presence. I am happy to know I won't be hand-wringing alone Thursday night.
I sort of like the offseason blog. Too much to keep up with during the week while the season is in session. I'll hold down the fort January to August.

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 10:40 PM | Report abuse

TE,
I totally missed the schedule-gate, I must have been on a work trip or something.

If we had been scheduled to play Miami four times, imagine what Gibbs would have said:

"Well, they're a really tough team and to have to play them four times in one season, it's just tough. There really is no such thang as a good schedule in the NFL. You just gotta go out there every week and fight your guts out."

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 10:53 PM | Report abuse

The Dorf abides and when he can't abide, he lurks.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 10:55 PM | Report abuse

not to be a debbie downer, but did you see ross the rooster tucker' essay on 21?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/27/tucker.taylor/index.html

and lisa i am off the crapper hahahahaha

Posted by: chrislarry | December 5, 2007 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe I missed the router discussion! :-) I LOVE the Apple Airport Extreme. Heck, I love ALL Apple products.

As of next Friday (my birthday as well, conveniently), I am unemployed again and can buy all the Apple products I want without having to explain myself :-) Cause for celebration!

Posted by: PDiddy | December 5, 2007 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Diddy, happy birthday in advance, and happy pending unemployment (hoping it's voluntary?).

speaking of birthdays, I think it's dcsween's birthday tomorrow -- let's get a WIN for sween!

cL, three and a half hours in there? Good grief. Wow.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 11:21 PM | Report abuse

JustMe, that Nats stadium pic in the snow is beautiful! Thanks for the link. I'm excited about visiting the new stadium sometime, maybe a summer trip to DC... which by the way would be a REALLY fun offseason blog meet-up.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, it is my understanding the game will also be shown on Channel 20.

Posted by: Lisa | December 5, 2007 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Lisa (or anybody), I see the game is scheduled for 8pm Eastern. Is there some kind of built-in pregame or introduction at the top of the broadcast for these Thursday nighters, or do they kick off just past 8?

Just wondering because I might be able to get to a sports bar and catch some of the game... thanks!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 5, 2007 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Lisa, but I don't get channel 20

Posted by: Dorf | December 5, 2007 11:51 PM | Report abuse

But it's Ultra High Frequency, Kennith (er Dorf)!

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 5, 2007 11:59 PM | Report abuse

nice

Posted by: Dorf | December 6, 2007 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Nate,
Just as everyone gets 15 minutes of fame, every fubball game must have its 15 minutes of cr@p and circumstance.

12/6 Skins v Bears 8:15pm ET NFL Network

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 1:07 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | December 6, 2007 1:43 AM | Report abuse

For all new bloggers (that's you, seanc) who don't know BBM from LBM, all the answers can be found on the Insider wiki.

http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/?t=anon

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | December 6, 2007 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Or like this if you don't feel like you are anonymous.

http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/

Just go there - NOW!

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | December 6, 2007 1:47 AM | Report abuse

SEND IN SONNY!

Posted by: leevi98 | December 6, 2007 4:33 AM | Report abuse

SEND IN SONNY!

Posted by: leevi98 | December 6, 2007 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Jason your measurements and stats for these young QBs left out the most important stat of all and thats TURNOVERS which the redskins have 26 turnovers and Chicken noodle is responsible for 19.

Turnovers are game changers and Noodle is an opposing D cordinaters dream come true because he knows Noodle will make that game changing mistake if the D is patient!

Posted by: booredskinfanhoo | December 6, 2007 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

The NFL Network will be doing a pregame (and postgame) show - at least 2 hours is my guess. They will be doing an interview (obviously prerecorded) with Pedro Taylor (Sean's father) and with Clinton. Our local Comcast Sportsnet will also have a pregame show.

There is snow all over the ground and the team has really not practiced at all this week. I don't see any way that we can win :(

Posted by: Lisa | December 6, 2007 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Sadly, booredskinsfanhoo, is correct. We need to protect JC from fumbles and stop him from having to win the game.

Posted by: Zebraskins | December 6, 2007 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Great story by Wise today.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Said Michael Hornung, Hunte's attorney: "That's exactly what we plan to do now that the indictment is out. In my experience . . . it is beneficial to be the first one to contact the state attorney's office with information and cooperation."WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MAN?!?!WE DONT NEED NO COOPERATION FROM YOUR PUNK ASS CLIENT!!HE IS TAKING HIS ASS TO THE PEN.COOPERATE IN THERE!

Posted by: smittdiddy | December 6, 2007 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Don't know if I missed this somewhere else, but ST is leading the Pro Bowl voting for Free Safety in the newly released numbers. Keep up the voting!!

Posted by: NCICURN | December 6, 2007 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, there's always a way, you know that, you just gotta believe.

From Clayton's 1st and 10:

"In the past week, defensive starters have admitted that the Bears thought they were an elite team destined to return to the playoffs."

Sound familiar? Maybe like us going into last year? The one common denominator? Adam Archuleta. He of special teams fame, even now with da bears. It's like the dude is a curse or something...

Posted by: WrongDog | December 6, 2007 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Sound familiar? Maybe like us going into last year? The one common denominator? Adam Archuleta. He of special teams fame, even now with da bears. It's like the dude is a curse or something...

Posted by: WrongDog | December 6, 2007 08:53 AM

lol

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Please don't be so hard on Archuletta.....he attendend Sean's funeral....really nice move.

Posted by: Lisa | December 6, 2007 9:20 AM | Report abuse

I watched some of the Giants/Bears game, and it seemed like the Giants were able to run on the bears. Hopefully that bodes well for the Redskins.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Will Joe Gibbs be back in 2008?

Salisbury: I think Gibbs will still be with the team next season, but it will be in another position and not as head coach. It's a shame that it looks like a great Hall of Famer like Gibbs will probably not be able to go out as a winner, which he would love to do for a franchise that he clearly loves.


Allen: It does seem like it's time for a change for the Redskins. The Redskins and Gibbs have been synonymous with success in the past, but right now that isn't the case. While Gibbs could probably still serve a great purpose for the Redskins in a front-office capacity, it's time for another head coach in Washington

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 9:44 AM | Report abuse

No quarter on Archellta.....he might be a good dude, but he is a horrible football player: Jason Sehorn 2

My take remains Gibbs should move into the Prez of football job where his strengths as a patriarch, leader, executive can be utilized and he can save face, and maybe the franchise. Its obvious he isnt a gameday guy anymore...and than he hires the true Gibbs 2.0 as HC: Russ Grimm! He is the Joe Gibbs of the 21st century!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 9:53 AM | Report abuse

What would Joe's role actually be as Team President? Would he assume GM type responsibilities or would it just be a ceremonial figure-head sort of position? I'm hoping it's more of the latter.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 6, 2007 9:53 AM | Report abuse

The skins need the correct, but difficult, balance of change and continuity. Gibbs as executive and Grimm as HC provides that.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 9:54 AM | Report abuse

I hope we can get Grimm, but I just have a bad feeling about who's gonna replace Joe.

Posted by: NCICURN | December 6, 2007 9:54 AM | Report abuse

CL I think the season on and off the field (his grandson and Sean) will be the reason he steps down as head coach. We agree he needs to move into the FO.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Adam Schefter, was on a local radio show here in Boston, and surprisingly they were asking him about the Redskins and the general feeling of the team, and about Gibbs staying on as coach next season.

Schefter said that the general feeling of the team is that Monday's funeral has provided some form of closure for them, and that having a game this soon, is actually better for them, then having to wait til Sunday to play

Schefter, also said that he talked to some people, 'in the know' about Joe coming back next year, and everyone he talked to said that he would be back for his final year.

For what its worth...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Gibbs drafts have been pretty decent this second go around, and its clear with his running of Nascar that he is good at leading a large group. I am sure the culture and vibe in the Redskins has vastly improved since his return. Might not translate on the feild and not something we can see. Also I think he has stabalized the organization.

All this said, and what I think should happen. I will not be shocked if he coaches next year.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Schefter also said that some of the hot names in the next few years for head coaching jobs are going to be, Josh McDaniels, from the Patriots, and Jason Garrett, from the pukes...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 10:46 AM | Report abuse

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