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Plan to replace Williams not yet set

Coach Jim Zorn said Monday that starting right guard Mike Williams will be out for the season finale against San Diego after suffering what turned out to be a torn muscle in his lower foot, the most significant injury in Sunday night's dismal 17-0 loss to the Dallas Cowboys.

Zorn said he didn't yet know who will replace Williams in the starting lineup against the Chargers. The Redskins have used 11 different offensive linemen this year.

"We haven't really met about that extensively and I want to be able to do that," Zorn said. "I can tell you more on Wednesday."

Zorn said safety Reed Doughty is going to try to practice this week after suffering a nasty-looking high ankle sprain while running back an interception in the second quarter against the Cowboys.

"He's never had, in his words, never had a high ankle sprain before," Zorn said, "so he's going to try to fight to play in this last game, but he'll probably be doubtful. I've just got to wait to see how he responds."

Starting right tackle Stephon Heyer suffered an irritated patellar tendon on his right knee - the opposite knee with which he's had problems for much of the season. "I think he'll work into practice and play," Zorn said.

Receiver Devin Thomas, who missed the Dallas game with an ankle injury, went through some footwork drills Monday in an attempt to get ready to return. Linebacker Rocky McIntosh, who suffered back spasms during the game, should be able to return this week, Zorn said.

By Barry Svrluga  |  December 28, 2009; 3:35 PM ET
 
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Comments

Manning, 1998, 1st rd
Brady, 2000, 6th rd
Brees, 2001, 2nd rd
Rivers, 2004, 1st Rd
Roethlisberger, 2004, 1st rd
Favre, 1991, 2nd rd
Warner, 1994, undrafted
McNabb, 1999, 1st rd
Romo, 2009 undrafted
Eli Manning, 2004 1st rd

The span of picking a elite QB is over 13 years, with none in the last 4 years.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Lorenzo friggin' Alexander.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Not sure why anyone is even talking about Campbell, especially after that display last night.

He's GONE. The owner doesn't want him, Bruce Allen doesn't want him, and whoever the HC is won't want him.

He'll either be starting in the UFL, or backing up (if he's lucky) in the NFL in 2010.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

How do you know BA doesn't want him?

Posted by: rexforab | December 28, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

He'll either be starting in the UFL, or backing up (if he's lucky) in the NFL in 2010.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I disagree, he will be on a team in the NFL, my gut tells me Carolina.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

.I just can't see any way that Shanahan comes in and keeps JC, IMO its a forgone conclusion that in either round 1 or 2 a QB is being picked, and in this draft with lots of potential QBs in there I just think Shanny is going to want to go with his guy and not inherit JC the guy who made coaches with great offensive reputations look terrible. (Gibbs, Saunders, Zorn)

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

No points in the first half, 6-3 DC lead in the second. 47 rating to 60 for TC. Wasn't pretty, but it was better than soup as usual.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

No, it wasn't. Soup usually pulls out a QB rating above 60.1, regardless of what you think of him.

Campbell's QB rating is 85 this season. In fact, his career rating is always decent -- and he doesn't put up all those numbers in garbage time. That's why Campbell got pulled during that game: his numbers and play weren't up to their normal levels.

And as Red so kindly pointed out, it's much easier for the backup can come off the bench and do well when nobody has prepared for him. When someone shows a lot of love for the backup QB's stats over half a game, that's usually a sign they don't follow the game very deeply.

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jcabana | December 28, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"We haven't really met about that extensively and I want to be able to do that," Zorn said. "I can tell you more on Wednesday."

Awesome -- JZ continues to be as clueless as ever: doesn't know who'll be starting at RG until sometime Weds afternoon.

Alex, no elite QB in the last 4 years, does that mean we're due?!?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Not sure ifCampbell would do better behind a decent

Posted by: iubiquity | December 28, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Get Campbell a competent HC and offensive coaching staff, instead of the circus side show they have now, and get him a real offensive line, not a bunch of rag-tags, patches, and long-shots. Then see how he does. - red

and you sir need to come out of the closet cuz you're a closet JC fan.

dude, gibbs is a good coach. saunders is a good coach. they had a pretty decent line during his years here while you had jc riding the pine behind a limp arm QB. THERE WAS A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is HE SUCKS!
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

now let's just agree to disagree. nothing nobody gonna say here to no one to change nobody's mind.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:50 PM

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if Campbell would do better behind a decent OL but would like to see.

Posted by: iubiquity | December 28, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Alex, no elite QB in the last 4 years, does that mean we're due?!?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Take it to mean what you want, none in the last 4 years could mean we are due or it could mean that we are in a big drought.
FYI I put in a typo on Romo he was in 03.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

start Fanaika...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Heyer is one of the worse tackles in the league.

We don't even have a backup guard right now.

Levi Jones hasn't played a full season since 2004.

Landry is absolutely useless in coverage.

We don't have a running back that would even make someone else's roster.

And we're arguing over a mediocre QB?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I can see Campbell out in San Fran. He looks like a Mike Singletary guy. What that looks like I don't know...

alex, that is exactly what I'm saying about the QBs in the NFL, they just don't come around too often... and to try and play GM and take a long shot on someone who you want to become, not someone who probably is or can become "the next Peyton Manning" is straight foolish.

Shouldn't the title of this thread read: Plan to replace Zorn not yet set", as if it were imminent?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I have watched JC from KC for all these years, this guy ws supposed to be an accurate thrower, and to an extent he is, he doesnt throw many interceptions. However, let me state that he is frequently underthrowing deep routes, throwing behind on crossing routes and is so bad at placing balls into tight coverage he never tries. His QB rating is descent but his W/L ratio is crap...

He is an average Qb at best, even with a good offensive line he would still make wrong reads and non perfect passes. If i have to see Santana Moss wait for another deep ball that if thrown perfectly would have taken him to the house, but instead he gets caught because he has to slow down or flat out stop to catch the ball i may go insane.

Posted by: skinball77 | December 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

red, I believe mike already stated he's going with Alex Smith next year....or something like that...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I've got to agree that the discussion about Soup is academic. Snyder has been pretty clear in his intentions to replace him, so he's looking pretty much like a gonner.

Doesn't matter what logic or stats or QB ratings have to say on this one. Once Danny weighs in, the discussion is over.

Yeah, yeah, I know...BA says he has final decision. We'll see.

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Who gives a crap who the starting right guard is in the last game of dreadful season!

Posted by: wstclair | December 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Not sure why anyone is even talking about Campbell, especially after that display last night.

He's GONE. The owner doesn't want him, Bruce Allen doesn't want him, and whoever the HC is won't want him.

He'll either be starting in the UFL, or backing up (if he's lucky) in the NFL in 2010.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

So I take it YOU are a presence at Redskins Park???

According to Sonny Jurgenson (who knows a hell of a lot more about the organization than we do) Jason stays. And I hope Sonny is right.

Jason has not had a chance with our continually changing O line filled with back up players. Plus, there is no other option out there.

And who wants to wait 2-3 more years to develop a rookie QB - who most likely will not pan out anyway.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 28, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

dealer, what was Gibbs' reputation for starting rookie QBs?

Yeah, I thought so.

I said after that Saints game that I may have misjudged Campbell's ability to play QB in the NFL after that devastating Saints loss.

Campbell had adequate time to throw, whether it came from the play from the offensive line, or the inadequate pass rush from the Saints, Campbell it it up out there.

Like I said I'm not saying Campbell is "the one", but how do you expect a QB to be poised when constantly he's got a dude in his grill the second the ball is snapped?

How do you expect Campbell to be consistent when you have fuc_ing idiots like Jim Zorn leading the team and calling plays?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

God this blog becomes so boring when folks bicker about JC17 all day...

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

2009 first round QB

Stafford, DET
Sanchez NYJ
Freeman TB

2010 QB seniors:
McCoy
Tebow
Pike
Canfield

2010 QB juniors:
Bradford
Clausen
Locher
Mallett (redshirt soph)

The guy that intrigues me on this list is Ryan Mallett. Seniors are not very impressive.

But, out of all these guys, is there a consensus "Next Peyton Manning"?

The could get Williams at OT, a center in the 2nd round. They picked Jarmon in the 3rd.

But, if they go for a QB (Bradford) in the first, then forget about drafting 2 Oline and getting top talent at those positions.

Unless they can trade guys for draft picks (and it might be easy), I say DON'T PICK A QB in 2010.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 28, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"Doesn't matter what logic or stats or QB ratings have to say on this one. Once Danny weighs in, the discussion is over." - edvar


For real, that's the bottom line right there....

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Red,

I agree with you that when he has time he does well. What I worry about is how many times last night he got himself in trouble by having no pocket presence whatsoever. He coulda stepped up, stepped back, shifted around. Good QBs do this, he failed to almost every chance he got.

You would think after years of getting smashed he'd develop this, but he hasn't and thus he never will.

I'm still in the "we have bigger problems right now" camp but I don't think JC is ever going to win us a Superbowl.

Posted by: rexforab | December 28, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Jason has not had a chance with our continually changing O line filled with back up players. Plus, there is no other option out there.

And who wants to wait 2-3 more years to develop a rookie QB - who most likely will not pan out anyway.


Posted by: Lisa_R | December 28, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse


Right. There is no other option out there. None. Jason Campbell alone gives this organization a chance at winning. No other options exist in this universe to bring success to the Skins.

Well said.


Who wants to wait 2-3 more years to see if Jason Campbell develops - especially when he's already failed to pan out here.

Posted by: p1funk | December 28, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Best QB in the Draft decided to go back to school next year (Locker). Do we really think that adding a QB to this team would make it a playoff contender? JC17 is average and can take a beating. I would like to see the Redskins draft OL, DL, LB, FS, and CB before we take a QB. Matt Stafford what has he done for the Lions, they are not going to the play-offs.

The jets will probably make the play-offs despite the horrible play of Sanchez. When you have the top D and best rushing O the QB does not have to be great.

The redskins should target the Bucs LT in free agency and retain LJ as a backup and still draft OL.

Posted by: m_p_holmes | December 28, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm still in the "we have bigger problems right now" camp but I don't think JC is ever going to win us a Superbowl.

Posted by: rexforab | December 28, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

See that helps my point right there. I don't think there is anyone on RI who thinks JC17 will be a part of a parade in D.C.

But instead of worrying about that, why don't we first concern ourselves with getting back to .500, then worry about becoming a perennial playoff contender, and THEN worry about a Super Bowl?

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Got beeped
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lmao @:

"and not inherit JC the guy who made coaches with great offensive reputations look terrible. (Gibbs, Saunders, Zorn)"

Are you serious?

Campbell didn't run Gibbs' offense. That was Mark "Water Pistol" Brunell.

Saunders? When other than Kansas City has Saunders blown the socks off? Never mind that he had Priest Holmes, Trent Green, and a hell of a offensive line with TWO potential future HOF'ers on it.

Zorn? Dude, I'm not going to even go there with the notion of Zorn having a "great offensive reputation". Why, because he's credited for coaching up Matt Hasselbeck, who isn't even "all that" to begin with?

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not only one guy all the time you can point to and say he's the reason why they're great or suck. In football, probably more than any other sport, it's the sum of the parts that determine success and failure.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Alex, have you seen Carolina play lately? Campbell is not better than the Matt Moore, their current starter. Also, you forgot to list Aaron Rodgers.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Lorenzo friggin' Alexander.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 28, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Is a man

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Who gives a crap who the starting right guard is in the last game of dreadful season!

Posted by: wstclair |

Who ever is unfortunate enough to be playing QB, for openers.

Posted by: TheCork | December 28, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I can't wait for S. Bradford,/ C. McCoy/ J. Clausen!!!
I can wait to see him drop back and get sacked in 2 seconds, hand off to CP for a 1 yard loss, learn the pro game and throw INT's! Maybe we don't have to draft a QB, maybe we can pick up the sure- bet HOF QB's like Pennington he loves to throw deep. How about Tavaris? He wasn't benched for a 40 year old, they're just resting him for the off-seson (when the real action begins). David Carr? He got a couple of reps yesterday, he should be ready to lead us to the SB. Oh snap, I forgot we have Colt! If he didn't get hurt this preseason, he would have definately lead another team to the SB after he got cut here.
Lets get rid of JC, he holds the ball longer than 1 second. In that situation every QB knows you have to throw the ball as soon as its snapped to you! All those short passes he incorporates into the game plan each week, why doesn't he design some longer routes? All the blitz reads he doesn't remind Rabach to call the protection for. JC's lazy too, he's always laying down on the job. Sometimes after a snap, he acts like he just woke up and then he's so lazy his teammates have to pull him up! I can't wait till he's gone!
==========================================

Posted by: priceisright | December 28, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Its ludicrous to say that Locker was the best QB in the draft, nobody really knows and he wouldn't have even been in the conversation if Bradford didn't get hurt.

Secondly, just saying we have a bad oline doesn't excuse all the crap play he's had all season. One good game against the Saints (in which he threw a pick when he was 15 yards from game winning field goal range and then checked down in overtime to fullback one step from getting lit up) doesn't erase it all. IMO Collins has shown that quick decisions and accurate throws make a big difference, but regardless I think there are 4 guys in the draft that are an upgrade on JC, Clausen, Bradford, Pike, and Mallet and also I just think Tebow will win in the NFL but that one is a huge question mark. In the short term with there be learning/growing pains? Certainly, but there is going to be that anyway with a young/new back and a young/new oline, long term we're better off with letting a young QB with better upside grow with the talent around him than to have a young oline block for a guy that runs into sacks and continue to have Kelly, Mitchell, and Thomas have to try and grow as young players with an inaccurate QB who won't take shots downfield and won't give them opportunities to make plays, IMO.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Things that piss me off about Jason Campbell:

Stares down receivers.

Appears to not go through his progressions properly.

Lacks pocket awareness/presence.

Appears to lack intensity (Especially when losing or getting hit numerously).... Appears to lack the courage to tell the coaches "Hey I'm changing out of that play" or tell his players, the offensive line in particular that: "You all are SUCKING out there! Step your game up!"

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"Unless they can trade guys for draft picks (and it might be easy), I say DON'T PICK A QB in 2010."


I say draft a quarterback in 2010.

I'm taking a long look at Tony Pike versus the gators' Defense this week: he might be worth a 2nd round pick.

There are too many decent q-backs in this draft to ignore them all.

So if I take one, it's because it's apart of an overall plan.

I say make a major move to snag a FA left tackle (Marcus McNeil).

Would you give up a future pick to get him if the chargers tender him?: that's Bruce's decision, not mine.

I say, "No thank you."

I also say trade away '11's first rounder, get an additional 2nd rounder in 2010, and have three picks in rounds 1 and 2.

I'd toss in S Moss to get an additional middle round pick in the deal.

Three high picks provides options.

You can take a tackle (Okung), quarterback (Pike), running back (Best), guard, and be on the way to rebuilding the offense.

Or: You can take three linemen high and satisfy needs (tackles/right guard) ASAP.

Or: if you can't get McNeil or some other FA tackle, take two tackles and a running back or quarterback.

In any event, moving the '11 first rounder gives the team a shot at rebuilding the offense.

And, above all, we don't need any more 1st round safeties and linebackers.

That kind of thinking is why we are where we are.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 28, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

oh yeah, Aaron Rodgers is most defintely up there with the elite 10 (QBs)...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Moe, Moss makes stupid money next year. No one is trading for Moss because of 1) his inflated contract and 2) he's on the wrong side of 30.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Trade JC 17 for a 2nd and a 4th round pick, who needs a quitter, and thats what I saw last night , a Quittter, and you can take that to the bank ! JC 17 quit, he just quit trying, if your to beat up to play , give the ball to someone else, don't quit on my team SJK.

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | December 28, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Lol, yeah trade Campbell for 6 1st rounders the year after nobody would give a 3rd cause a bad Qb on bad team has improved his trade stock

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

after a scanning of 60 different mock drafts, 42% predict us drafting Bradford, 15% say we will draft Clausen 7% predict Campbell and 7% for Okung, 5% for trent williams, then there are the following all recieving 2-3% Ryan Mallett, J Locker,CJ Spiller, Tim Tebow, Jahvid Best, Colt McCoy, Bryan Bulaga, Brandon Graham, Eric Berry, Anthony Davis, Derrick Morgan

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"...Moss makes stupid money next year. No one is trading for Moss..."

The idea was to dangle Moss and the '11 first rounder.

If a team doesn't want Moss, well, okay.

But if you get an additional top pick out of the move, then that's more than okay.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 28, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Manning, 1998, 1st rd
Brady, 2000, 6th rd
Brees, 2001, 2nd rd
Rivers, 2004, 1st Rd
Roethlisberger, 2004, 1st rd
Favre, 1991, 2nd rd
Warner, 1994, undrafted
McNabb, 1999, 1st rd
Romo, 2009 undrafted
Eli Manning, 2004 1st rd

The span of picking a elite QB is over 13 years, with none in the last 4 years.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I would agree with Red that Aaron Rodgers should be in top 10. And I would argue that Lil Bro, while getting better, is not a top 10. I'm not sure he is any better than JC. He has been in the same system for a few years now, which does help. But if you put both of them in a new system, I'm not sure which one would do better.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

2 bad Grossman has a winning record and has been 2 a super bowl

Posted by: BenchCampbell | December 28, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I just can't see any way that Shanahan comes in and keeps JC, IMO its a forgone conclusion that in either round 1 or 2 a QB is being picked, and in this draft with lots of potential QBs in there I just think Shanny is going to want to go with his guy and not inherit JC the guy who made coaches with great offensive reputations look terrible. (Gibbs, Saunders, Zorn)

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

So who protects the new QB or does he sit till we get an offensive line to protect?

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 28, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

after a scanning of 60 different mock drafts, 42% predict us drafting Bradford, 15% say we will draft Clausen 7% predict Campbell and 7% for Okung, 5% for trent williams, then there are the following all recieving 2-3% Ryan Mallett, J Locker,CJ Spiller, Tim Tebow, Jahvid Best, Colt McCoy, Bryan Bulaga, Brandon Graham, Eric Berry, Anthony Davis, Derrick Morgan


Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse
Mock drafts in December are about as useful as a politician's promises during a campaign.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 28, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

So who protects the new QB or does he sit till we get an offensive line to protect?

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 28, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone assume that JC being gone and the drafting of a QB means a crappy oline? Shanny and Allen aren't stupid, they know we need oline help. If they plan to draft a QB high I'm sure they will sign some lineman and draft some as well. They aren't Vinny and Danny guys, ya'll need to adjust your world view its not an either or question and they wouldn't draft a franchise QB and ignore the oline. If they decide to go that way (which I think they will) I guarantee you at a minimum they will sign a veteran tackle and guard as well as draft some young depth.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

from CSN,

"Speaking at a Monday press conference Zorn said, “I am a better football coach today than I was when I walked into the program. I’m far more experienced, I’ve seen a lot of things, I’ve experienced a lot of head coaching responsibilities.”


So he'll go to the browns or seahawks, and be a happy camper.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 28, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I have been in JC17's corber since day 1 and feel he deserves a shot behind a stable offensive line and a coach that has some credibility.

But at this point, you blew up the front office and brought in a new GM. There will no doubt be a new coach. We are already getting younger...

why not draft a new QB and start this thing from scratch.

just sayin

Posted by: CheyenneWY | December 28, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

frediefritz, Eli is better than Campbell because he's more accurate down-field, he has better pocket presence/awareness, and he's clutch.

I've seen Eli lead the Giants on more than a few GW drives... had that big one a few years back in a really big game...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Trade JC 17 for a 2nd and a 4th round pick, who needs a quitter, and thats what I saw last night , a Quittter, and you can take that to the bank ! JC 17 quit, he just quit trying, if your to beat up to play , give the ball to someone else, don't quit on my team SJK.

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam

If he wanted to quit, he would not have kept getting up after being destroyed on a 3-step drop. He is not very accurate and makes poor decisions, but never quits.

Posted by: CheyenneWY | December 28, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"Plan to replace Williams not yet set"

I'm sure, however, that the plan to replace Jim Zorn is already set......ha ha ha.

Hopefully the new boss (?) Bruce Allen will get smart and draft OL, not QB, with our high 1st rounder. My amateur projection has us anywhere from 3 to 9. Is this right?

Posted by: skinsfan713 | December 28, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

I dont think JC17 would stay at this point.

He has been mistreated for the last two years.

Posted by: CheyenneWY | December 28, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone assume that JC being gone and the drafting of a QB means a crappy oline? Shanny and Allen aren't stupid, they know we need oline help. If they plan to draft a QB high I'm sure they will sign some lineman and draft some as well. They aren't Vinny and Danny guys, ya'll need to adjust your world view its not an either or question and they wouldn't draft a franchise QB and ignore the oline. If they decide to go that way (which I think they will) I guarantee you at a minimum they will sign a veteran tackle and guard as well as draft some young depth.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I see your point, but I just don't agree with that way of doing things. We've gone the FA route way too much recently, especially on the offensive line -- BMW, Dock, Jones, etc.

I'd rather us incorporate the draft first and foremost for the majority of our needs. I think back to the days when we had a young Samuels and Jansen and were set at those positions for so long. Instead of bringing in a 27-28 year old FA, why not draft a 21 or 22 year old and be set for a decade?

Besides, good young O-Lineman are hard to come by in free agency...

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Manning, 1998, 1st rd
Brady, 2000, 6th rd
Brees, 2001, 2nd rd
Rivers, 2004, 1st Rd
Roethlisberger, 2004, 1st rd
Favre, 1991, 2nd rd
Warner, 1994, undrafted
McNabb, 1999, 1st rd
Romo, 2009 undrafted
Eli Manning, 2004 1st rd

The span of picking a elite QB is over 13 years, with none in the last 4 years.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 28, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse
___________

My opinion: Eli Manning is not an elite QB. He's a decent QB who is on a team that had a great OL, defense, and running game during its Super Bowl year, and, in my opinion, won in some cases in spite of Eli, not because of Eli. I'd rather have JC than Eli.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | December 28, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"Speaking at a Monday press conference Zorn said, “I am a better football coach today than I was when I walked into the program. I’m far more experienced, I’ve seen a lot of things, I’ve experienced a lot of head coaching responsibilities.”

Well whoop-de-freakin-doo, Jim Zorn popped his cherry with the Redskins.

Yay-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

*Ugh*

The only thing I care to read with Zorn's name involving the Redskins is the words: resign, quit, fired, or axed.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 28, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone assume that JC being gone and the drafting of a QB means a crappy oline? Shanny and Allen aren't stupid, they know we need oline help. If they plan to draft a QB high I'm sure they will sign some lineman and draft some as well. They aren't Vinny and Danny guys, ya'll need to adjust your world view its not an either or question and they wouldn't draft a franchise QB and ignore the oline. If they decide to go that way (which I think they will) I guarantee you at a minimum they will sign a veteran tackle and guard as well as draft some young depth.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Most good offensive linemen are resigned. They are cheap to resign. I highly doubt McNiel or Barron ever make it to free agency. If we're lucky the Saints will let one of their tackles go. Outside of that it's very difficult to build a line through free agency. If we have access to a top tier tackle then we will be set for years. Tackles are also a much better chance of panning out than QBs. With so few draft picks we simply don't have enough to gamble on a QB. Once free agency hits you'll be lucky if you can get a mediocre tackle.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of JC for any draft pick, then Draft all OL, play colt or collins and draft QB in 2011. Unload the house for draft picks, maybe there is a hidden gem waiting to be found with the extra picks, we already know who the rhinestones are, so lets pawn them shiny peices of crap.

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | December 28, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

cheyenne, bullcrap, how has he been mistreated?? Because they explored trading him?? Thats mistreated?? Thats called due-dilligence....you want mistreated, try Ted Johnson of the pats who BBelicheck made practice in full pads with a concussion....that is mistreated....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 28, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Where do you think the Ravens would be if they had JC vs. Flacco? 8-7, with one game to play, fighting for the playoffs. Flacco and JC are eerily similar except one thing: THE TEAMS THAT SURROUND THEM. This 'elite qb' stuff people toss around is silly, because neither Theisman (except in his mind), Doug Williams (when we got him), nor Rypien were 'elite' qb's. I do feel the o-line performance this year has gotten into JC's head; I fear he feels pressure when there isn't, which affects his game. Have we seen the 'Skins run a max protection scheme all year? Oh, that's the wrong offense.
While at first I lauded AH's courage sounding off, it seems to be more destructive than supportive. I just don't get lineman taking plays off; that's not how it's done. Another Snyder move that's caused havoc, but not where it should have.
5-11/6-10 next year, boys; mark it now.

Posted by: pdfordiii | December 28, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I felt sooooo bad for campbell soup last night. He need to take pressure 101 courses because the dude can't feel pressure. Half of the hits that JC took in the last 2 yrs are from him holding on to the ball. Another things is he can't read a blitz.. Last night he look at that corner coming off the edge and simple ingored him and got blasts! Now, I'm not saying something better out there for us, but if you are like me REDKINS NATION I'm sick and tired of me yelling at my TV saying " throw the freakin ball". So, that's why we need to move on without him and start over with new blood.

Posted by: taylormade218 | December 28, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

With only 5 picks, the skins need to trade back and collect picks. Typically the 5th or 6th pick can net a mid 1st, 2nd, & 4th.

Possibilities...

SF: 2 1st's this year both in the mid teen's. Could be targeting DT, FS, CB

Seattle: 2 1st's. QB and plenty of other needs.

Jacksonville: Loves Tebow (and @ QB for some reason). Could get desperate, worth a call.

If no trade partner then the draft board should read:
1. OT Okung
2. OT Campbell
3. FS Eric Berry
4. RB Spiller
5. NO QBs IN FIRST

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 28, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I do feel the o-line performance this year has gotten into JC's head; I fear he feels pressure when there isn't, which affects his game.

Posted by: pdfordiii | December 28, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree 100%. The games recently where JC played well, he had time yes, but he also didn't have the nervous, happy feet, "Oh, sh*t! I'm gonna get killed!" look on his face. The NY and Cowboys game reminded me of the Chiefs game when he got benched. He didn't look comfortable and didn't trust his offensive line at all...

Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I agree 100%. The games recently where JC played well, he had time yes, but he also didn't have the nervous, happy feet, "Oh, sh*t! I'm gonna get killed!" look on his face. The NY and Cowboys game reminded me of the Chiefs game when he got benched. He didn't look comfortable and didn't trust his offensive line at all...


Posted by: mattylight | December 28, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Considering Jay Ratliff clobbered him the last time he stepped up into the pocket you can see why he's playing scared. He doesn't trust the line and for good reason. He'd be stupid to trust this line. Most QBs can handle 1 tackle getting beat. They can just roll to the other side. Some can handle 2 tackles getting beat. They step up into the pocket. Nobody can handle both tackles and the right guard getting beat. There's no where to go.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 28, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

See that helps my point right there. I don't think there is anyone on RI who thinks JC17 will be a part of a parade in D.C.

But instead of worrying about that, why don't we first concern ourselves with getting back to .500, then worry about becoming a perennial playoff contender, and THEN worry about a Super Bowl?

This statement was made earlier and is and should be Bruce allens motto. Learn to walk before you can run. I'll take a year in year out competitive NFL team for the next ten years ala patriots, eagles, steelers over a flash in the pants superbowl or bust team any time. With consistency comes the opportunity. Opportunity is the playoffs!

Posted by: sthai75 | December 28, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Rooney B-E-E-P-S

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 28, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

If no trade partner then the draft board should read:
1. OT Okung
2. OT Campbell
3. FS Eric Berry
4. RB Spiller
5. NO QBs IN FIRST


Posted by: Diesel44 | December 28, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse


I like the draft order, but why not Taylor Mays, then Eric Berry? I don't keep up with college FB that much, but I hear this Taylor Mays is a beast!

Posted by: taylormade218 | December 28, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

PA, jcabana, and the other soup lovers, you guys keep beating the drum that its all everybody else's fault and JC just needs some more time and a better oline.....its meaningless, in 6 days he will have played his last game as the Redskins starter and he and Zorn can go hang out in Cleveland with the Big Show and Shanny will rebuild the oline with a bunch of smaller athletic technically sound guys who typically don't go in the top 5 anyway, with a better defense, a better collection of receivers, whatever RB he plugs in for a 1000 yards (mike bell, mike anderson, travis henry, etc.) and a young, mobile, accurate QB who will flourish in his bootleg, roll the pocket, WCO system. IMO, the question will be will Shanny ever get us a Championship, not if he will make us immediately competitive and respectable and a perennial playoff contender especially inheriting what he didn't have in Denver, a defense!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 28, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

What's all this "get Campbell a decent HC, and decent O-line?"

He sucks, period. And he's shown it in numerous ways over his 3 years as a starter.

They're the Washington Redskins, not the Washington Campbells.

No, Carolina isn't interested in him as a starter - they have a kid named Matt Moore who actually makes plays, thanks anyway.

The fact that people even want him back here is mind-boggling; but then again so is the small contingent of people who want goofball Zorn back for another season as HC.

Eff 'em both. Good riddance.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

moore the qb did play well against the giants bozo he also has a running game and a good o-line and not changing systems and coaches frequently. campbell could do the same in carolina also.

Posted by: wathu19 | December 28, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a Jason Campbell fan at all. He's sluggish on reads - not adept at feeling pressure - holds the ball too long - and evidently requires more than average reps to perfect an offensive system.

However, given all those weaknesses, he is incredibly durable. Some of the weaknesses I've outlined are also a
product of an offensive system that doesn't suit him. We are asking a John Deere tractor to race in the Indy 500.

Our absolute priority isn't drafting a quarterback that will take two years minimum to adjust to the pro game. Our priority is to develop an offensive line that is cohesive and that has some depth. Whether this is through drafting or through free agency, this is a given and cannot be foresaken for wanting to get rid of Campbell. He might not be the long-term answer, but the offensive line is part of a long-term plan that must be executed.

We also need to look at our players and return them to their natural spots. We know Landry can't cover a bed when given a bedspread, so why do we insist he cover as a main focus of his play? He is damned good at disrupting line play and we should use his speed there. Other players should be similarly adjusted and the glaring openings should be targeted thusly.

If 2010 is a no-cap situation, we should get rid of Haynesworth and Portis and any other player with huge cap issues. Cancers to team unity must be removed and players of character must be found. I'd rather have average players who give 100% than prima donnas who give us 40%.

Campbell may never be more than an average quarterback - but given that he's had to run for his life for the last two years, I'd say he is at least due an opportunity to have another year. Adjusting an offense to his tendencies may mitigate some of his issues and allow him to improve still further. One thing is for sure, Tony Romo, Eli Mae Manning, and Donovan McNubb couldn't withstand the hits that Campbell has and still play.

Posted by: laserwizard | December 28, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

In a topic unrelated to the discussion, I'M not sold on Shananahan, to be honest.

I could have gotten Elway back to a couple of Super Bowls.

I'll give him credit for having a decent O line and run game, though. If he can get us that, we'll be light years ahead of where we are now. (Word is, that helps the passing game, too!)

PS - Is Norv going to stick it to us like I hope he does, or is he gonna rest his az-whoopin' machine?

Posted by: Thinker_ | December 29, 2009 5:25 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and Collinsworth is basically a moron and I cannot stand his "voice."

Funny when you consider how these commentators have all the room in the world to criticize players, but almost never say squat about the coaches.

In our case, it would have been nice if someone would indicate WHEN Zorn is calling plays or when Lewis is, etc, instead of talking about how nicely John Madden's wife decorated their kitchen and how warm and cuddly Tony Romo's new puppy is.

I was half afraid Collinsworth was going to get into all the details of their sleepover pajama party at Romo's house last week.

Posted by: Thinker_ | December 29, 2009 5:31 AM | Report abuse

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