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Poll: Looking ahead to Sunday

By Cindy Boren  |  December 9, 2009; 9:30 AM ET
 
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Next: Hall, Sellers, Haynesworth not practicing

Comments

Skins go ahead late with FG. Orakpo get the game clinching sack and fumble w/ under a minute to go. Skins 16, Raiders 13. Calling it now.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 9, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

have you gotten Wii motion plus??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:34 AM |

No on that is it any good?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

How about a poll on the new kicker? How many kickoffs will he put in the end zone (assuming he has more than one KO)? How many clutch FGs will he make?

Posted by: League-Source | December 9, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Wow, lots of confidence in this one...the biggest flaw in my prediction from last week (other than the "lies and animosity", of course) is that I failed to take into account that this team plays UP to the level of good teams and DOWN to the level of the poor opponents. Plus the game is out west...Skins lose a close one.

That said, I take back the belief that they'll lose every game...I think they win the Dallas game at home. We'll see if 4-12 gets us Bradford (don't agree with that pick, just believe that's what Snyder wants).

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

What is the rookie record for sacks?

I'd like to see rak get it, as well as I'd like to see Tana go over 1000 yards for the season...

I know I'll get scorched for this, but I think the team needs to keep ARE. Use he and Moss out of the slot, don't let him return punts, but he and moss out of the slot, with DT/MK/MM at the other positions, and I think they could be onto something...

kind of a better the devil you know, than trying to bring a guy in either in FA, or through the draft...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

How about a poll on the new kicker? How many kickoffs will he put in the end zone (assuming he has more than one KO)? How many clutch FGs will he make?

Posted by: League-Source

Yeh good idea...hey JReid you P.O.S....poll that

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

flound, it comes with wii-sports resort, which we got for the kids for Christmas, so I'll find out. Its supposed to make the motions of the wii-remote more lifelike on games...we'll see what happens...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

What is the rookie record for sacks?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:44 AM


I believe it's 14.5 by Jevon Kearse

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Yeh good idea...hey JReid you P.O.S....poll that

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 9:45 AM

Polls are the responsibility of Ms. Boren. And, you should probably approach her a bit more politely than you addressed Mr. Reid. Just a suggestion.

Posted by: League-Source | December 9, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Bean - since no one else will answer me, don't you think the Sellers play was incomplete? Yes, I'm still bitter about it.

He barely put down his second foot, hadn't turned upfield/made a football move, and since they ruled the ball came out before the ground, he didn't maintain possession through the catch. Isn't this the definition of incomplete?

Not to mention, how many times do the refs have to blow the whistle before the play is DEAD dead? I mean, technically, couldn't the guys fight for the football for 5 minutes after the whistle now?

I can't believe this play isn't getting more attention. I actually thought his right hand was still tucked under the ball when his left elbow was on the ground. In any event, I was completely shocked at the ruling and the Moore play too. Really makes you wonder...

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Polls are the responsibility of Ms. Boren. And, you should probably approach her a bit more politely than you addressed Mr. Reid. Just a suggestion.

Posted by: League-Source

MY Bad...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

brown, thanks, might be tough to get to, whats rak at 9?? the oakland OL, looked good versus pitt...they had harrison bottled up coming off the edge....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins will take a 3 point lead late in the 4th quarter after moving the ball inside the 10 yard line and then running 3 consecutive stretch plays and settling for a short field goal because Zorn trust his defense to close out the game for him.

On the ensuing drive, Bruce Gradkowski will hit the yet to be heard from Derrius Heyward-Bey on a long TD pass after a double move freezes Carlos Rogers and LaRon Landry.

Raiders 17
Redskins 13

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 9, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

ryp, I don't know about incomplete, but the refs blew the play dead, so MSellers stopped going for the ball...to me thats the part I'm angry about...the ball appeared to be coming out before he hit the ground, but to blow the play dead,which stops EVERYTHING, then to overrule that, is the aggregious part...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

etrod -- Can you re-write your scenario? I'd like to see Gano have a shot at a game winner and, in case he doesn't, I'd like to know whether he would have made it or not. Can you work that it?

Posted by: League-Source | December 9, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

The passing formations are endless when you have Thomas, Mitchell, Moss, ARE, Kelly, Cooley, and Davis.

Add to that a legit pass catching RB too... damn!

Of course it all starts up front, but like what I've been seeing the last few games. They still need upgrades, but Levi Jones and Mike Williams at guard have been getting it done.

FYI... given his weight when he came here, I thought Mike Williams would be better suited playing RG, but thought his height would've been a problem. Glad to see I was wrong.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

....Not to mention, how many times do the refs have to blow the whistle before the play is DEAD dead? I mean, technically, couldn't the guys fight for the football for 5 minutes after the whistle now?....
Posted by: Rypien11

Ryp, I agree. When the whistle blows the play is over and the ball was picked up by NO after the whistle..If they continue to fight for it after the whistle then they would probably get a delay of game or unsportsmanlike conduct flag. But when the league and refs are try to get 2 undefeated teams in the SB then this is what you get...watch these playoffs..anything close will go NO and Indy's way..it a shame and a sham.

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

flound, it comes with wii-sports resort, which we got for the kids for Christmas, so I'll find out. Its supposed to make the motions of the wii-remote more lifelike on games...we'll see what happens...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:47 AM |

Yes then we have it because the kids have Wii sports resort.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

[repost]
[JC] has looked better with zorn than with gibbs hasnt he?
JC is what he is. (And, by extension, isn't what he isn't). Zorn took on the responsibility to turn him into a pro-bowl, playoff-caliber elite QB (perhaps like Hasselbeck in his prime, only with more/better physical tools). If he can't get that done, then find someone else for QB coach and focus on playcalling -- because 'Playcalling for Dummies' didn't apparently teach him everything he needed to know.

how could zorn organize his staff when half of them were already picked for him.
So, he only had to pick the offensive staff, and he took three FT jobs for himself. They bring in an extra pair of eyes and viola!

how could zorn make any "outstanding "choices when cerrato makes all the personnel choices.
I choose not to believe that Zorn had "zero-impact" on the final 53. There are guys that were our final cuts playing for other teams. He didn't get the fiesta trio involved early enough -- last year or this. He tends to think of the WRs and RBs as interchangeable, when they need to get more consistent reps. The best example that I can think of is DT/MK at the beginning of the season. Each of them got plays, sometimes as many as two in a row before swapping out for the other one. No wonder JC checks down to ARE and Cooley.

we dont have a football mind at head coach but isnt that cerratos fault
Yes. My only fear is that, with Snyder as his wingman through the entire process, Vinny can say "we were fooled by this guy. But I brought in another pair of eyes and improved it, might've been able to fix it if we had more time." But I want someone to be held accountable for the decision.

Posted by: daggar | December 9, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

FYI... given his weight when he came here, I thought Mike Williams would be better suited playing RG, but thought his height would've been a problem. Glad to see I was wrong.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I was worried about his height too. The two question were:

Can Campbell see over him? After this weekend it appears that he can.

Can he handle stout DTs? After this weekend I think he can.

Obviously we'll need to see more out of him but so far I think it's working. I wouldn't mind going into next year with BMW as the right guard and Rhino as his backup. I think bookend tackles in the draft and maybe an open competition at center would be enough to fix this line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

ryp, jcnjcnj -- You know, I see you points but I can't pin this loss on the refs. The way the 'Skins played Sunday they lost the game themselves, multiple times. Gift wrapped for the Saints.

Posted by: League-Source | December 9, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see Edwin Williams get a shot at Center.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Bean/jcn - I'm not entirely clear on the Hochuli rule - whats the ruling on play continuing after the whistle if someone recovers the ball? Either way, at some point the play has to be completely dead.

But I seem to remember recently they made completion rules even more stringent... I've seen passes called incomplete where the receiver has hung onto the ball for even longer.

I know it appeared that he may have dropped the ball before his elbow was on the ground from the view BEHIND him... but after looking at the replay from the SIDELINE, it appeared his hand was still tucked under the ball while the elbow was on the ground.

In any event, there is NO way that is a conclusive overturn, WITH a possession change. The Skins should really be filing a report on that one.

The Moore play was almost as bad.... he came down RIGHT ON TOP of Shockey, yet somehow this wasn't down by contact.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

League source - I agree, we should have won on our own merit, but those two calls (moore/sellers) had my jaw dropped, wondering how BOTH of them could possibly have gone against us.

I GUARENTEE if Moore returns that pick for a TD, they rule him down. And I GUARENTEE if Pierre Thomas was in Sellers spot, its down by contact.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

in looking at the pitt/oak box score, it seems that oak can be run on, both Mendenhall and Parker were over 5 ypc on 23 combined carries...do we know who is getting the start at RB for this week?? Is it rock??
I think ganther needs a look...lets see what he can do with 20 or so carries in a game...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

ryp, jcnjcnj -- You know, I see you points but I can't pin this loss on the refs. The way the 'Skins played Sunday they lost the game themselves, multiple times. Gift wrapped for the Saints.

Posted by: League-Source

League..True the Skins have blame in the loss because they allowed the Saints to get deep on them and the bizarre play right before the half..all of that not withstanding we had a shot to win in OT and was rob by the refs. The refs should not let a call determine the out come of a game and they IMO blew it big time

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

flound, I think williams deserves a shot at center next year, I think if they bring back BMW, then you have some depth at G, in him, Rhino, and hopefully a draft pick...draft a LT at 5, unless Suh is there, and then draft a LG or a RT with the 2nd round pick....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

brown, thanks, might be tough to get to, whats rak at 9?? the oakland OL, looked good versus pitt...they had harrison bottled up coming off the edge....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 9:52 AM


All he needs is one good game where he gets like 3 or 4 and he's got a shot. I would target that Dallas game...the year we beat them down 35-7, Philip Daniels had 4 'em. Even though Romo is far more mobile, stands to reason 'Rak would have more success if he gets a good matchup.

Provided he's not getting tripped and pushed in the back by Flozell Adams...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I hope that Portis can get better and re-dedicate himself to getting back into playing shape and realize that he has to practice with the team to perform well. It HAS to be eating him up seeing guys considered to be his backups perform so much better than he did behind a “quality starved” OL. Let’s hope he takes it to heart and realizes that his talent alone just won’t cut it anymore. I will say that if he gets cut, whoever he goes to isn’t going to hand him the starting job week in week out based upon his history as a top RB or because he is tight with the owner….

Also, there is a pretty good explanation of the sellars play review in “the league” section of the post:
http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/ratetherefs/2009/12/new-replay-rule-dooms-redskins.html

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 9, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see Edwin Williams get a shot at Center.

Posted by: Flounder21

Most definitely.

Wouldn't mind seeing the line like this:

LT: Levi Jones/Draft Pick or FA Signing
LG: Dockery
C: Edwin Williams
RG: Mike Williams/FA Signing or Draft Pick
RT: Draft Pick/FA Signing

Cut Heyer. Keep Rhino and Rabach around for depth.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see Edwin Williams get a shot at Center.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see him in a real game situation. I want to see if he gets knocked back like Rabach does. Rabach does a lot of things well but pass pro isn't one of them. Edwin is a little more stout. I think with Edwin, Dock, and BMW we stand a better chance of building a devastating ground game and they would really clog up the middle in pass pro. If Edwin takes over then we almost have to get more depth at center. Rabach will want out. The question will be where do we get a backup center? Do we count on an undrafted guy or bring in a free agent or do we draft a center?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

flounder

"I would like to see Edwin Williams get a shot at Center."

Definately.

And 'nuther thing missing from the autopsy of the saints' game: Levi Jones' play against Will Smith.

Would you re-sign Jones?

I'd wait out the next four games.

If Jones is signed long term to play left tackle, that changes all the draft hollering folks have enagaged in.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I think ganther needs a look...lets see what he can do with 20 or so carries in a game...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

I agree..and they should have stuck with him down in the red zone before SS shanked that kick..he got us down there with some tough running and Zorn-the genius decides to put in Rock..Rock is cool and all but he doesn't have the power and pop that Ganther has. So in keeping with his F'd-up thinking we'll see Rock start and get the carries in the red zone

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Bean,
I like ARE out of the slot too, but the problem is roster spots. I'd like to see Marko Mitchell get a shot, and with Tana, DT, Kelly and Davis, there just aren't enough balls to go around for ARE and Mitchell.

If Mitchell isn't as hot as his preseason performance indicates, then I'm all in favor of keeping ARE for the slot.

Posted by: REXskins | December 9, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I haven't been blogging on RI very long but I have noticed there is a subset of bloggers here to whom rationality is a foreign concept, like all those aliens from other planets that Lou Dobbs is constantly complaining about who show up like ants at a picnic and annoy the H out of him. Not that I was expectorating RI to be a bastion of Rhodes scholars either. But anywho, I wanted to provide two examples to telestrate my point. The first one is the following:

It would be nice to beat Dallas, but not at the expense of improve draft rank given many personnel needs.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:41 AM

Go blog with your fellow Dallas pukes, you sorry-azz quitter.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:47 AM

So here is a poster who would prefer beating Dallas once to getting a better draft postion to snag the likes of Okung or Suh so the Skinz will be able to beat Dallas many times hence. Good job buddy!

The other example is a blogger, MistaMoe, whose response to one of my posts didn't really surprise me inasmuch as I had seen an earlier post rating him the most retarded blogger on RI. Someone had posted a comment about how the Saints OL is composed of dudes who weren't high draft picks and yet they do a good job of protecting the QB, the post being a welcome antidote to the mindless braying of many RI bloggers that the Skinz have to draft OL early and often. MistaMoe then posted that the Saints do have a high OL draft pick in Jamaal Brown and I posted in response to him that Jamaal Brown was totally irrelevant to the argument because the dude hardelly played this year, having gone down to injury. To which he posted the following:

theanimalfarm

"Who ain't playing while the Saints have been winning all them games, dummy dog."

"Dummy dog"?

That's the best you got?

Obviously, your insult capacity is as limited as your mother's oral skills.

See how I did that?

But you're a farm animal.

And I guess like most sheep, you're nervous.

I guess that comes from living like a pig, barking like a dog, and getting milked like a cow.

And f!cked in the azz like the farmer's daughter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:36 AM |

So instead of responding to my post with a counter argument (to be fair, there isn't any, at least any that makes any sense) the dud goes off on a lame screed about my handle. To which I say, buddy, you be living in a glass house there. I mean how lame is your handle? MistaMoe? It invites ridicule - MistaHoMoe, MistaHoeMoe, MistaMoeFo, MistaMoeRon, etc., etc.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 9, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I thought Rak got held all game long by NO...re-watching last night, the heisman that Brees did on Carter was a pretty big play...that was the play I think that Moore had the int, then was stripped

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

in looking at the pitt/oak box score, it seems that oak can be run on, both Mendenhall and Parker were over 5 ypc on 23 combined carries...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:14 AM


I watched most of that game, Greg and the reason the YPC was up was because they had a couple of long runs. Mendenhall ripped off about a 60 yarder at one point and was decent otherwise.

The Raiders are pretty dangerous right now. Their D is a bit underrated and their O is better with Gradkowski there. Both of these teams beat each themselves with penalites and other mistakes so it'll be interesting to see which one plays well enough not to lose.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Jones is injury prone so I still think you need to draft the best OT at 5, thats either Okung or Trent Williams.

If Jones would sign as a backup for a few Mil. then yes but don't break the bank on him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"I think ganther needs a look...lets see what he can do with 20 or so carries in a game..."

I'd start Rock, then let Ganther get 20 carries as well.

He should be given a shot to audition for a job next year, now.

And again, it changes the dynamic as his success allows the team to part ways with Betts and not draft a back.

Too, if he gets yards against the four defense we are about to face, it also says the o-line issues have changed.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

flound agreed, sign jones, to a 2-3 year deal, modest money, his age, injury history have me skeptical....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Those are the only O-Linemen worth taking in the first round, so even if you trade back in the first if you can't get one of them you wait until the second to take a O-Linemen.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I hope CP retires, but don't see it happening. I think he would be a big layer of skin to shed to get this team going in the right direction.

I appreciate what the guy has done, but he hasn't had his head/heart into the game for a while now and it seems his act is wearing thin.

Give me young, unproven guys who are hungry to run hard.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Well played, Animal Farm. Some folks up here just can't deal with someone actually having a different opinion and take it personally. That's why I spend way less time on here nowadays, I can't see a lot of the games this year (out of area) and I'd rather not get my blood pressure up over some virgin clown like "League Source" who lives in his mom's basement spanking it to Laron Landry's shirtless photo.

Welcome to the insanity, dude.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

My GM Plan for 2010:
#1. Campbell STAYS.
#2. PORTIS GOES.
#3. Draft RB Mark Ingram
#4. Draft Left Tackle
#5. Bring in QUALITY Free Agent Lineman
#6. TRADE OR CUT Santana Moss
#7. CUT aging & fumbling MIKE SELLARS
#8. Show Zorn and Blache the door.
#9. Find a new FB.
#10. Use players such as Landry, Orakpo in their natural postions.

Posted by: lszovati | December 9, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Somebody remind theanimalfarm that this isn't a reading circle.

Join Oprah's book club if you want a fanbase.

Keep it short and sweet, son.

Crime and Punishment length posts won't get read.

Like yours wasn't.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

If Jones is signed long term to play left tackle, that changes all the draft hollering folks have enagaged in.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

No it doesn't. We still don't have an NFL caliber right tackle anywhere on the roster. Okung could come in and play right tackle until Jones gets injured. Then he can move over to left tackle. We need 2 new tackles with or without Levi Jones.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

My GM Plan for 2010:
#1. Campbell STAYS.
#2. PORTIS GOES.
#3. Draft RB Mark Ingram
#4. Draft Left Tackle
#5. Bring in QUALITY Free Agent Lineman
#6. TRADE OR CUT Santana Moss
#7. CUT aging & fumbling MIKE SELLARS
#8. Show Zorn and Blache the door.
#9. Find a new FB.
#10. Use players such as Landry, Orakpo in their natural postions.

Posted by: lszovati | December 9, 2009 10:31 AM |

Ingram just finished his Freshmen year he's not eligable for the draft.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I hate to bring this up again but do we really want to win these last 4 games? I would like to ruin their playoff chances, and the San Diego game we might win because of the fact they may have that division wrapped up by then. But 3-13 is better for a potential top 5 pick then 5-11, or 6-10. I root for my team every week so I am not saying I want to lose these games, but the fear of not getting a good player that we need in round 1 and the ineptitude of the front office makes this something to ponder.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Dallas playoff chances I meant to say

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

fedor,

I see what your saying but when it comes to game time and they start winning, I don't care about draft position anymore.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Gotta question:

If this is the end of Portis' time in D.C., how will it be judged?

a. he lived up to his potential

b. trading for him wasn't worth it

c. he'd been better had the team kept a strong group of offensive linemen for him to run behind

d. overachieved during the skins' lean years

e. he'll be back, but in a diminished role

f. the team would've better off using a mix of Rock and Betts

Moe says, "All of the above."

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

fedor, you know, to be honest, win or lose, I was happy that the offense finally started to play like I hoped it would/thought it could, versus the saints....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I see what your saying but when it comes to game time and they start winning, I don't care about draft position anymore.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

The other plus is that positions 6-14 are a lot easier to trade than 1-5. We also can settle on a left tackle like Bulaga, Campbell or Brown. If we trade back we could get 2 tackles and a running back in the first 2 rounds.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

fedor, you know, to be honest, win or lose, I was happy that the offense finally started to play like I hoped it would/thought it could, versus the saints....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I always hope we win. Even if it costs us a higher draft pick, so be it. There is something to be said, IMO, about some kind of positive momentum going into next year. The team is playing better, no doubt, so it'd be good for their confidence to win a few of these games as proof of their progress.

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

fedor, you know, to be honest, win or lose, I was happy that the offense finally started to play like I hoped it would/thought it could, versus the saints....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Yeah man I was pissed we found another way to lose a game, but there is hope for this offence. If the D would not give up the big play we would be in the Dallas/Philly realm.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Cut Sellers is crazy...dude is one of the elite blocking FBs in the game. If you wanna stop him from fumbling, DON'T GIVE HIM THE BALL.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I agree with all of you. I want a win each week. 7-9 looks good with some positive momentum going into next year, but its still a tough call in my opinion. I root for a win but still win with a loss.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

"Some folks up here just can't deal with someone actually having a different opinion and take it personally."

No disrespect to your reading abilities, but theanimalfarm slung insult at me first because I disagreed with him.

And then, he complains about it when I throw it back in his face.

That's what's insane.

Too, who continues to hash out yesterday's arguments?

Women with golf clubs and cheatin' husband's are the only ones who do that.

Move on.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

moe, good segway, so would it be easier to list the women el tigre DIDN'T sleep with, than those he did??

and has there been a worse 2 week stretch for any individual than what this cat brought on himself??

I mean, did he sleep ever.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I agree with all of you. I want a win each week. 7-9 looks good with some positive momentum going into next year, but its still a tough call in my opinion. I root for a win but still win with a loss.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

It's so far in the future, and no one knows what could happen between now and then, but I remember a really bad team last year that won a few games and had some success late in the season and carried it into being a very good team this year: the Cincinnati Bengals.

Not saying we could do that, but just an example of how continuity and late season momentum (obviously coupled with good personnel decisions) can carry over...

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

There is something to be said, IMO, about some kind of positive momentum going into next year.

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 10:42 AM


That only matters if you plan on bringing everybody back. With Zorn on the way out, Portis and Samuels talking retirement, and other presumed changes, this is gonna be a completely different team next year. Zorn may be a good coordinator in this league, but he's shown me nothing to believe he's head coach material right now.

I'm also staunchly opposed to tanking games. These guys are pros, let 'em earn their money and their keep. I'd just go with as many of the young guys as possible and see what's worth keeping in 2010. Anything else is wasting time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I think we could dulicate the success of the Bengals next year. They play in a tough division as well. I think thats very possible, good point.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

moe, good segway, so would it be easier to list the women el tigre DIDN'T sleep with, than those he did??

and has there been a worse 2 week stretch for any individual than what this cat brought on himself??

I mean, did he sleep ever.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Next story to come out: Tiger won the Masters after playing the final round completely wasted, ala David Wells' perfect game.

And no, never seen such a fall from prominence (at least in image) in such a short timespan...

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

FedorEm, how can you call yourself a fan when you're questioning if the Redskins ought to tank games for a better draft pick?

Chill, just bs-ing.

I understand perfectly what you're getting at, but like Flound said, when it's gameday I'm not thinking about the draft.

Give me dubble u's.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

"Some folks up here just can't deal with someone actually having a different opinion and take it personally."

No disrespect to your reading abilities, but theanimalfarm slung insult at me first because I disagreed with him.

And then, he complains about it when I throw it back in his face.

That's what's insane.

Too, who continues to hash out yesterday's arguments?

Women with golf clubs and cheatin' husband's are the only ones who do that.

Move on.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 10:45 AM


Moe, I agreed with his sentiment, not necessarily his beef with you. That's between you guys. I said "some folks up here just can't deal with someone actually having a different opinion and take it personally." No names, no handles. If you think he or anyone else fits that description, that's your interpretation--not mine.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I think the underrated story in this Tiger Woods thing is how great his caddy must be. Cause looking at all the pictures of his alleged mistresses and then the pictures of his wife, Tiger might be the worst decision maker ever.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

FedorEm, how can you call yourself a fan when you're questioning if the Redskins ought to tank games for a better draft pick?

Chill, just bs-ing.

I understand perfectly what you're getting at, but like Flound said, when it's gameday I'm not thinking about the draft.

Give me dubble u's.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Never in my life have I wanted them to lose, ever. Nor do I want us to now. I just brought it up for discussion. Its something as fans we can debate. If I ever thought the players themselves were asked to tank games that would be disgraceful.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 9, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

I'm also staunchly opposed to tanking games. These guys are pros, let 'em earn their money and their keep. I'd just go with as many of the young guys as possible and see what's worth keeping in 2010. Anything else is wasting time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Heck yeah, we have questions and we need answers.

Is Kevin Barnes going to be ready to take over for carlos rogers by next year?

Is Edwin Williams the longterm solution at center? Rabach will most likely be gone in 2010.

Is Lendy Homes or Kareem Moore the solution at free safety? Landry sure isn't.

Is Marko Mitchell a TD machine? How about throwing fade routes to him instead of ARE?

Is H. B. Blades the next MLB?

There's only one way to answer these questions.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I mean, did he sleep ever.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 10:48 A


Of course he slept. 10 women? That's a weekend or two in Vegas for a high roller like him.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 9, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

bean

"it be easier to list the women el tigre DIDN'T sleep with, than those he did??..and has there been a worse 2 week stretch for any individual than what this cat brought on himself??"


El Tigre has a new name.

In a new commercial, he says, "I am not Tiger Woods."

"I'm Tiger 'Hood."

"Tiger Woods was good at swingin' a golf club."

"Tiger 'Hood is good at swingin' something else."

"Tiger Woods wants a hole in one."

"Tiger 'Hood wants to be one in a hole."

"Tiger 'Hood doesn't objects to foursomes."

"Finally, Tiger 'Hood's new motto is 'Eight Is Not Enough."

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Tiger just got into the position where the chase after Nicklaus' record of major wins was boring.
In searching for another unbelievable record to attack, he read the biography of Wilt Chamberlain.
Hitting golf balls until it's not fun anymore was the price he had to pay.
Hitting on waitresses at the waffle house never got un-fun.

Posted by: daggar | December 9, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

ZJFR2 - come on now, don't get lazy on me.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

PA,

I think you can get any of the other T's in the second round, from what I've heard from the experts only two O-Linemen will be taken in the first round.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I think the underrated story in this Tiger Woods thing is how great his caddy must be. Cause looking at all the pictures of his alleged mistresses and then the pictures of his wife, Tiger might be the worst decision maker ever.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Zing! But yeah, I hear you. All we ever get fed by the media and by Tiger is how much he values his privacy. Really? So a guy who wants to be left alone by the media, doesn't allow many into his inner-circle, and is generally distrusting of others sends 300 text messages to his mistresses, leaves a paper trail when he pays for their travel, etc? What a dumbazz...

As for his wife, it reminds me of a line on the Jay Leno show after he compared Steve Phillip's wife to the chick at ESPN that he hooked up with (who by the way was mug). Jay said, "I mean, I get that we can't eat steak every night, but come on!"

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Soup only wins 35% of his starts, so he's due for at least one more acorn pie this season. Thinking Raiders or Dallas....

Posted by: Realness1 | December 9, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Next story to come out: Tiger won the Masters after playing the final round completely wasted, ala David Wells' perfect game.

And no, never seen such a fall from prominence (at least in image) in such a short timespan...

Posted by: mattylight


What are the odds that his wife starts popping up at his tournaments wearing tight tanktops with the phrase "F You" on the back?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

What are the odds we start calling him 'T-Rod'?

Posted by: daggar | December 9, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I think you can get any of the other T's in the second round, from what I've heard from the experts only two O-Linemen will be taken in the first round.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Bruce Campbell and Brian Bulaga played themselves up the Rankings this year. I'd look for both of them to move up even more after the combine. Jason Fox from Miami and Ciron Black could go in the first too. Selvish Capers could wow people at the combine too. A lot of teams are really hurting at tackle due to injuries. There could be a run on tackles. There could be 6 tackles taken in the first.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

What are the odds that his wife starts popping up at his tournaments wearing tight tanktops with the phrase "F You" on the back?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Or she conceives again and gives birth to a baby boy who looks just like Phil Mickelson...weird...

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

mattylight

"All we ever get fed by the media and by Tiger is how much he values his privacy. Really?"

Only the celebrities who are not living right feel that way.

Me?: I'd be all out inthe open.

You're a zillionaire and really shouldn't care what people think.

Unless you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Soup only wins 35% of his starts, so he's due for at least one more acorn pie this season. Thinking Raiders or Dallas....

Posted by: Realness1 | December 9, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Barry Sanders won less than that so I guess he sucks. Too bad, I kinda liked Barry but the only thing that counts is wins. Sonny was under .500 as well.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Only the celebrities who are not living right feel that way.

Me?: I'd be all out inthe open.

You're a zillionaire and really shouldn't care what people think.

Unless you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Yup -- if you are always acting like you got something to hide, you probably do.

Posted by: mattylight | December 9, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Fedor, I gotcha dude. The first part was another crack at sarcasm.

Cause looking at all the pictures of his alleged mistresses and then the pictures of his wife, Tiger might be the worst decision maker ever.

Posted by: zjfr2


This something that I can agree with you on, NO DOUBT!

I don't know what goes through our heads or whatever, when you mess around with a woman who his several steps below your current woman in several areas...

When I get the thinking of why would a man mess with a woman who looks like stepped on dog s***, I draw up one conclusion:

Head.

Most really fine women don't like to give head, and if they do they aren't that good.

Women don't understand how important that really is... it's the old saying: what you won't do the next one will... I tell these ladies: Giving head is an art, a science, a way of life...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Red - we all know, the crazy, low self-esteem ones will take it to that next level... and sometimes, yeah, they're a bit homely, but we're willing to forgive it at times...

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

OK. Let me make it simple for some of you MIke Sellars lovers out there. The guy sucks. He was great as a special find in his first tenure with the Skins bu the dude has cost as many games as Suisham. How many times did he cry to Gibbs about being used in goal line offense only to FUMBLE IN THE END ZONE. Please take a look at the Eagles LEONARD WEAVER before calling Mike Sellars a great fullback. I know love is blind but this guy needs to go.

Posted by: lszovati | December 9, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

redDmv

"Most really fine women don't like to give head, and if they do they aren't that good."

rypien11

"...the crazy, low self-esteem ones will take it to that next level... and sometimes, yeah, they're a bit homely, but we're willing to forgive it at times..."


This is too funny.

And very true.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Shoot, I'm a thousandaire, and I'm still out in the open with mines.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

If he goes to free agency and signs with a team that already has a good line and a stable coaching situation, he will shock people in 2010." -Aaron Schatz......

More BS..the only person who'll be shocked is Vinny and he already looks the part..bugged eyed

Posted by: jcnjcnj


Well if you say so.

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Most really fine women don't like to give head, and if they do they aren't that good.

Women don't understand how important that really is... it's the old saying: what you won't do the next one will... I tell these ladies: Giving head is an art, a science, a way of life...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:15 AM


LOL funny, Red! And true!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

OK. Let me make it simple for some of you MIke Sellars lovers out there. The guy sucks. He was great as a special find in his first tenure with the Skins bu the dude has cost as many games as Suisham. How many times did he cry to Gibbs about being used in goal line offense only to FUMBLE IN THE END ZONE. Please take a look at the Eagles LEONARD WEAVER before calling Mike Sellars a great fullback. I know love is blind but this guy needs to go.

Posted by: lszovati | December 9, 2009 11:21 AM


Wow...you just said one of the teams 4 Pro-Bowlers from last year "sucks". You'll excuse me if I don't buy that brand of crazy.

Don't confuse misusing a player with him sucking. Sellers is great if you play him in a role he should be used in: blocking. Few FBs can do it better. But the minute you get cute with him and try to play him like the aforementioned Weaver or Baltimore's LeRon McClain, you're playing him out of character and you'll see some bad results.

Fumbles aside, I didn't hear anything about him sucking when he scored 8 TDs in '05. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Mike Sellars a great fullback. I know love is blind but this guy needs to go.

Posted by: lszovati


"Love is blind
And it will take over your mind
What you think is love, is truly not
You need to elevate and find"

Nah, but seriously, I think Sellers is a bit overrated around these parts, hell I think the FB position is overrated altogether.

I like the one back formations with no less than three receivers and one TE on the field. Or two TE, two WR, and one RB.

The key to this is that your offensive line better be some road grading mauler type bamas.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should at least stay with the team as the QB coach. Campbell should stay at QB.

Here is to hoping that Blache & Gray remain with the team as well.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | December 9, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Sellers is great if you play him in a role he should be used in: blocking.

Posted by: brownwood26


I agree. Have him put on a few pounds and let him play RT.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Sellers is an above average fullback who has been made into something more around here because of his personality. He definitely has had a down year but is still making some nice plays this season in the passing game, that fumble on Sunday (which IMO wasn't a fumble) was just a tough play and a nice tackle by the defender, what hasn't been mentioned much was JC hung him out to dry a bit on that one. JC has to read the coverage better and not throw it to the check down that is one step from getting lit up. He doesn't need to go, but the expectations need to be tempered some, he's not the best fullback in the league, but he's still top 10, btw notice how much his blocking has improved since CP went out, don't know if its practicing during the week with the guy you'll be blocking for or if it was a personal thing but Sellers has improved since CP left.

signed the resident idiot.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I think Sellers is a bit overrated around these parts, hell I think the FB position is overrated altogether.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 11:39 AM


Not so much overrated as it is outdated. A lot of offenses are going with multiple receiver sets with only one back. Or they just use the TE as a de facto blocking back. Some teams (like the Colts and Pats, I believe) don't even have a true FB on their team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Yeh good idea...hey JReid you P.O.S....poll that

Posted by: jcnjcnj | December 9, 2009 9:45 AM

Polls are the responsibility of Ms. Boren. And, you should probably approach her a bit more politely than you addressed Mr. Reid. Just a suggestion.

Posted by: League-Source


In his spare time, League Source offers Diplomacy advice to North Korea.

League, this guy has no game. My guess is he's about nine, or employed at Redskins Park. Or both.

Also, how come you know the polls are the bailiwick of CB?

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

so if sellers is a no go for this game, do they move yoder to fb and if so, who takes yoders spot at te??? also, who are they bringing in to replace/take portis's spot not that he's on ir??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I am all continuity, but the only way Zorn should stay is if he is not allowed to call any plays or TO. He should also be limited or taken out of game planning as well.

His role should be to oversee practices and motivating the players (seems to fit this role pretty well). Figure head in the role of the dummy in dallas.

Keep the two Sherms as is or train S Smith to be the play caller next year. My preference would be Meidt as play caller, but Sherm squared is working.

If Zorn does not want that role, then let him walk.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 9, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should at least stay with the team as the QB coach. Campbell should stay at QB.

Here is to hoping that Blache & Gray remain with the team as well.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | December 9, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Agreed. I think Zorn and Campbell would work out well in that capacity.

Posted by: NYSkinsFan1 | December 9, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Also, how come you know the polls are the bailiwick of CB?

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2009 11:46 AM

I've been paying keen attention. Every time a poll appears, the post is signed by CB. I doubt that JR has been taught the work the poll-a-matic doo-hickey.

Posted by: League-Source | December 9, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm going to the game Sunday. Yessiree, Bob.

Redskins 35, Raiders 31

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 9, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Seems like Mike Sellers is way down on the list of what is wrong with this team and need fixing. As has been mentioned, use him as a FB, nothing more.

Like the way the line has played of late, but let's not stop the drafting OL especially tackles talk.

Those that advocate for this want a splashy player taken with the first pick. Even if LJ is re-signed, young depth has to be added and the draft must be used for this.

Having said that, if Okung is gone, don't reach for a tackle in the first.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 9, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

nate, walk up to the idiots in the spiked shoulder pads, and tell them they're a bunch of a-holes....they love that stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Raidahs 23, Zornskins 16.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 9, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

so if sellers is a no go for this game, do they move yoder to fb and if so, who takes yoders spot at te??? also, who are they bringing in to replace/take portis's spot not that he's on ir??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 9, 2009 11:48 AM
------------------------------------------
I'd imagine they would put Yoder in there and then only play one-tight-end sets with Davis. Another option would be to put an offensive lineman in as a tight end. This OT on the developmental roster, Clint Oldenburg, played some tight end on the scout teams for previous teams. I would think he could be an answer. Activate him. What would a 310 pound tight end do for the running game?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 9, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

beantown

"...walk up to the idiots in the spiked shoulder pads..."


Better yet, walk up to JaMarcus Russell and ask him what's it like to have $31 million to count while riding the bench.

And just how is Darren McFadden doing?

Is Robert Gallery still the dominate player Mel Kiper made him out to be?

We skins fans yak about draft bombs, but the raiders got a few of them, too.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Seems like Mike Sellers is way down on the list of what is wrong with this team and need fixing. As has been mentioned, use him as a FB, nothing more.

Like the way the line has played of late, but let's not stop the drafting OL especially tackles talk.

Those that advocate for this want a splashy player taken with the first pick. Even if LJ is re-signed, young depth has to be added and the draft must be used for this.

Having said that, if Okung is gone, don't reach for a tackle in the first.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 9, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Agreed to an extent, we need to start draft oline annually, but if they can re-sign LJ and sign a starting caliber tackle I don't think they need to draft OT high this season. Heyer is quality depth, LJ has been extremely solid, BMW looks great at guard, Dock and Rabach have been solid. If they've addressed tackle as mentioned above then I have no problem going RB/QB or QB/RB and then spending all the midround picks on oline T, T, and G IMO. The issue has been depth on this oline for years and that's what needs to be addressed, you see though with competent game planning, production from the running game, and the signing of LJ this line has done very well. You add a starter at RT and keep LJ you can draft for depth not for need and instead you can add some playmakers to a backfield that sorely needs it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Having said that, if Okung is gone, don't reach for a tackle in the first.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 9, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I think after the combine several of these tackles draft stock will rise and we won't be reaching. I think we're going to pick closer to 10th and at that point Bulaga and Campbell will be worthy of that pick. I can see Seattle, Kansas City, Detroit, Green Bay, Niners, and Bills all picking tackles in the first round.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 9, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 9, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Sellers backers: would you say Sellers is a complete full back? I mean, he brings some awesome run blocking to the table, but I don't think his pass blocking is anywhere near as good. He can catch the ball out of the backfield, which you def want from your fullback. The team never runs him though. He has had zero carries this year. I think his fumble-itis is more than a little concerning when running with the ball. When you have a less versatile player on the field it is just one less thing defenses have to plan for and I like the idea of making them plan for everything. Yes, he made the pro-bowl last year, but because there are fewer and fewer true fullbacks in the league, this might be one of those one-eyed-an-in-the-valley-of-the-blind-is-king deals.

Me personally? I wouldn't mind seeing the Redskins try to get a little more versatile full back in the mold of a fullback like Tom Rathman. If they are committed to the WCO, they're going to need one.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 9, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I know Darren McFadden is sucking out there in Oakland, but I still think the dude is legit. I'd go so far to say that with an improved o-line, I'd like to see what he can do here in D.C.

JaMarcus Russell is a whole another story though.

JaMarcus Russell = BUSTa Rhymes = BUSTer Douglas

Posted by: RedDMV | December 9, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Skins just played their superbowl and should be spent after 3 tough losses. They'll probably get off to a slow start at Oakland and lose another close game. Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part cause I'm hoping for a top 5 draft pick.

Posted by: coparker5 | December 9, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Bean - since no one else will answer me, don't you think the Sellers play was incomplete?

Posted by: Rypien11

I'm not Bean, but I'll take a crack at it. I'm pretty sure the officials ruled it a fumble. In other words it doesn't matter what you think, what I think, or what Bean thinks, the only people that count are the officials. Questionable or even bad calls are part of the game. Suck it up and live with it and find a way to win. Except in rare circumstances players determine the outcome of games, not officials.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | December 9, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

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