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Portis v. Zorn: The Last Word

The head coach and the running back say they're cool again. Everybody has an opinion on this topic -- it just keeps on giving -- and we thought we'd let you have the last word.


By Cindy Boren  |  December 11, 2008; 9:30 AM ET
 
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Next: Unrestricted Rewind and the Practice Report

Comments

I fear the Skins' FIRST win after 3 weeks ago will be in 2009.

Posted by: RambleOn | December 11, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

The Bungles may be a win but we are really going to have to strap it on and play above our level if we are going to compete with the Eagles (McNabb is born again hard after benching) or the 49ers (who are born again hard in the image of their coach).

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

psps, not sure why you believe you're 'expected to win' against the Iggles. They're in good form right now.

Posted by: Redcoat

I didn't say we "are" expected to win. I said we "should be" expected to win. We have a better team, there's no doubt in my mind. That's my whole point regarding the coaching.

And for the record, I never criticized Zorn for benching Portis. All I said was that following last Sunday Zorn was close to losing some of his locker room, in particular Portis and Cooley. Portis seemed to prove me right for a short stint.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

rc, being a wise, old(but not really old, just kinda old) sage, brings up a GREAT point for comparison:

"McNabb has really stepped it up since he got benched during the Ravens debacle - even though the Ravens game was still winnable when Reid sat him down. Amazing that, who'd have thought an experienced coach would bench one of his star players like that...?

Makes you think....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I blame Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Who cares...

Posted by: ga8085 | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

McNabb has some sort of offensive line

Posted by: shanteefamilee | December 11, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

You blame Omega Man?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

The ol' 24-hour news cycle is pretty annoying, huh?

Posted by: synk | December 11, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Alright, I think I'm done blogging for the day. Actually have to work for a change.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

McNabb has some sort of offensive line

Posted by: shanteefamilee
__________________________________________
Aren't they getting a little old as well?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Alright, I think I'm done blogging for the day. Actually have to work for a change.

Posted by: psps23
_____________________________________________
What do you do?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I can cope with just plain "old" Greg, that's just fine by me, but thanks for the 'sage' compliment!

I think you guys will be very good against the Bungles, probably good enough against the 49ers, but may struggle against the Iggles.

Did you see what they did to the Gints last week? That's a team that believes again. If you beat them you would fully deserve to get a slot in the playoffs as that would probably take your best performance of the season if they stay at the level they've been last couple of weeks. One thing Andy Reid knows for sure, is how to get his team playing at the end of the season, same as Gibbs did.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Aren't they getting a little old as well?


Apparently, they can stiil block!!

Posted by: shanteefamilee | December 11, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Touche' Shantee, Touche'

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

tra thomas is up there, as is runyan, agreed, they're still getting it done however.

cl, thanks for the response, agreed, Grimm would be a good hire....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I love Kornheiser, he is da man! They need to film him from his right side on MNF to hide that hideous comb-over.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I agree that canning Zorn would be typical Snyder. At the same time I am not sure I care. Still would like to see him succeed, but not sure he has what it takes. But Beantown asks for who instead of Zorny, so I will provide:

(Now Beanie since I know you, let me say this: This is what I would do, or what I think would be smart. Not what I think will happen)

Russ Grimm

- Basically is a Gibbsian in philosophy but with a 2008 viewpoint and Cowher apprenticeship. Perfect combo of core philosophy with modern approach. The key to fish that got away in Gibbs 2.0 as viewed as "failure" was the inabiliy to get Grimm from Steelers to be O-Cord. when Gibbs first returned. And duh, why did the steelers block it? B/c he is a good coach.

- O-line issues anyone? Well his cred there doesn't have to be restated. But look at this seasons job with Cards. Their O line are nobodies who sucked last year and still don't run block that well. YET they have protected the 78 year old Warner en route to one of his best seasons and cardinals first home playoff game in 100 years.

- He has worked for Snyder before. So he isn't blind to the "issues".

- O-Line coaches make good HCs. Its like catchers in Baseball make good managers.

- Now for the real crazy part. Along with Grimm I would can Vinny and bring along a young go getter to be GM. Bring the two in together. Maybe even someone Grimm has worked with along the way.

So beantown, you asked...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

IMO, that opportunity needs to be earned. It's not asking much. I'm not saying Zorn needs to be Bill Walsh right now. Beating Cincinatti and San Francisco down the stretch is nowhere near a monumental task with the team we have. Even Philadelphia is a game that we should be expected to win, even if it will be a very tough game. These are games (especially CIN and SF) that there are no excuses for losing, even for a rookie HC.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

I don't see how a rookie head coach finishing 9-7 or even 8-8 doesn't earn a nod of approval. He's installing a new passing offense that (by all reasonable accounts) takes about 3 years to get clicking. He's doing it with a team/perrsonnel that was built for a different kind of offense. True this was a "playoff team" last year, but we kind of backed in with a 9-7 record, and this year it looks like a 10-6 team won't even make it.

Even if we finish 7-9, I'd be supremely bummed; but considering that the smart money said this team was going to finish last in the NFC East and alot of the "regulars" around here were giving us no more than 5-6 wins before the season began; I personally think we can afford to let Zorn back in the building next year.

Posted by: p1funk | December 11, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Grimm would definitly be a great asset if he were to come back to town. Not as head coach but line coach or O-coordinator to help take some pressure off Z.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I am glad we don't have Plaxico

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"Portis v. Zorn" is just a storm in a vast hurricane. The greater issue is: who going to rebuilt the franchise's personnel? The 'on the field' issues are what dooms the Skins when they play A-1 defensive teams, not Portis' practice habits or Zorn's 32 protection schemes. The team doesn't have top notch lineman on both sides of the ball, speedy skill players or the deep reserve of draft picks needed to replace them. And who wants to go the free agency route again given the sleigh-bed of signees recently (Archelueta, Lloyd, Carter, Fabini, Wade)--and yeah, I know about Hall, but given what's going on with the FO, what's the chance he re-signs? The Danny must bring in a sharp GM who can assess teams needs in relation to Zorn/Blatche's scheme--and not justsign the biggest name on the market.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 11, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Maybe he could steal away the TUNA from Miami, lol. They would go to blows at the press conference like Billy Martin and Steinbrenner.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"How 'bout a beer Moe?"-Homer

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

From PFT, if it was already posted sorry.

REDSKINS PLAYERS COOLING TO ZORN
Posted by Mike Florio on December 11, 2008, 8:34 a.m. EST
As if the recent outburst from running back Clinton Portis wasn’t enough to suggest that something is amiss with the Redskins, we’ve been told that multiple players are developing a sour taste in their mouths regarding the team’s first-year head coach, Jim Zorn.

Per a league source, the players perceive an attitude from Zorn that, when the team wins a game, it’s because of Zorn. And that when they lose a game, it’s because of the players.

The sense is that Zorn views himself as an elite coach after less than a year on the job — and despite a dramatic dip in the team’s performance after an unexpectedly strong start that had owner Dan Snyder whooping it up after back-to-back road wins against the Cowboys and the Eagles.

Where this leads, we’re not yet sure. When Zorn was hired, there was a sense that he possibly would be a one-year stop-gap until Snyder could lure Bill Cowher to town. (Indeed, Cowher has since confirmed that he was contacted by the Redskins in January.) After the ‘Skins began to soar under Zorn, however, the notion that he’d be a short-timer dissipated significantly.

But now that the team is at 7-6 and in last place in the NFC East, anything short of running the table and qualifying for the postseason could result in a major shake-up in D.C.

It wouldn’t be the first time that Snyder pulled the plug after only one year. He did it to Marty Schottenheimer following the 2001 season, which given Schottenheimer’s strong relationship with Cowher could make Cowher reluctant to do business with the organization.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Grimm would definitly be a great asset if he were to come back to town. Not as head coach but line coach or O-coordinator to help take some pressure off Z.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden

I agree Grimm, as a former hog, would be a great choice to replace Buges as OL...but I don't see Zorn axing his good friend Sherman Smith as OC so quickly

Posted by: forever21 | December 11, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Why not HC? Makes no sense......

Listen like I said, when I am sober and rationale of course Zorn deserves longer than one year. Even if we dont like Snyder we have adopted some of his tendancies (fire this guy, sign him!) so we go off half cocked...

And yes p-funk on paper the numbers zorn will post will be decent for year one of rookie coach...

BUTT

I think some of us have a sinking feeling, an affect, a inclination that Zorn doesn't have it for the NFC east. That he is precious about his schemes, a little to left coast if you will. Maybe were just burned from the Norv/Spurrier type. Maybe we prefer defensive HC, or tougher dudes.

OR

Maybe we don't enjoy watching our team look like souless whipped dwags for like 5 sundays in a row getting abused by what look like more "real" football teams. So we are thinking what? We might be "9-7/8-8" but its an ugly, pathetic. embarressing, depressing 8-8....

Just one fans view

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Great idea! Fire the coach after 1 season. That works every time!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 11, 2008 8:14 AM

Worked in Miami. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 8:31 AM

Miami also changed the GM ... actually, EVERYBODY below the level of owner (except for roster).

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I agree Grimm, as a former hog, would be a great choice to replace Buges as OL...but I don't see Zorn axing his good friend Sherman Smith as OC so quickly

Posted by: forever21 | December 11, 2008 10:07 AM |

First of all Grimm is not a WCO guy he knows nothing of it.

Second it does not matter who is OC Zorn calls the plays.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

rc, being a wise, old(but not really old, just kinda old) sage, brings up a GREAT point for comparison:

"McNabb has really stepped it up since he got benched during the Ravens debacle - even though the Ravens game was still winnable when Reid sat him down. Amazing that, who'd have thought an experienced coach would bench one of his star players like that...?

Makes you think....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Makes you certainly hope that this isn't just wishful thinking.

Posted by: PBL4 | December 11, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Zorn did spend a lot of time with that pompous a ss Holmgren, maybe too much of it rubbed off. They go to war together, this is not separate but equal.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Here's why _______ won't be hired as HC next year.

1) Bill Cowher - For Danny, that ship has sailed. He tried to get him last year and the Chin didn't bite. They went in a totally different direction. Danny promoted Vinny and they brought on "their" guy (JZ). For Cowher to come on board now, he would demand some kind of personnel control a-la-Mike Shanahan. There's no way I see Cowher accepting some kind of power-sharing role with Vinny. This would mean having to demote Vinny/strip some of his duties. No way I see this happening at this point.

2) Russ Grimm - This would be a total U-turn to the direction that they have calculated. Where's the wisdom in dumping one rookie head coach in order to bring on another rookie head coach? Why is Russ Grimm more of a lock than JZ? It's true that alot of our personnel is Gibbsian right now, but that personnel is OLD and ON ITS WAY OUT. The clock is ticking on the Jansens, Samuels, Washingtons and Springs of this team. We drafted 3 pass catchers with our first 3 picks last year b/c Vinny has gone all-in on the West Coast project. Grimm doesn't fit.

Posted by: p1funk | December 11, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Pro football talk = Charmin.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 11, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

CL,

If a change was made I would not have any problem with Grimm, and a young GM in the mold of a Scott Peoli.

Grimm would be better as a head coach then as a OC.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Good point Flounder. I would love to see Grimm as HC BUT want to see continuity and give Zorn more time. Firing Marty was a massive blunder in my mind as he was turning it all around.
But you know what, we could what if all day long (and we do) but none of us is qualified for any position in the league to make decisions. So it's all conjecture and innuendo.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

"McNabb has really stepped it up since he got benched during the Ravens debacle - even though the Ravens game was still winnable when Reid sat him down. Amazing that, who'd have thought an experienced coach would bench one of his star players like that...?

Makes you think....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 9:47 AM

I'm thinking, "Why didn't Jansen step it up after they benched him?"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

cL, when did Grimm work for Snyder?

I understand the criticism about the inexperienced current head coach (no previous experience as a coordinator), but is/was Grimm a coordinator?

Seems like it would be a desperate move to placate a desperate Sports bottle-fed fan base (see the desperation resulting in Gibbs 2.0), but there doesn't seem to any basis to think that having Grimm as head coach wouldn't repeat the same "new guy" frustrations currently ongoing.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Hiring new HC next year = power rankings

Posted by: p1funk | December 11, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

p1funk-good points but the biggest factor is player age and the need for a real, experienced GM and ditch Vinny.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

te, lol, mcnabb apparently isn't done. Jansen on the other hand is COMPLETLEY cooked....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

cL, when did Grimm work for Snyder?
____________________________________________
When did Grimey act as the O-line coach? He was here at one time but left for Pittsburgh where was was pecker slapped by not getting the job there. He's not doin so bad in Arizona.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Everyone (almost) is screaming for Russ Grimm to be head coach. WHy?? Cuz he is a former Hog?

*The Head Hog (Buges) can't seem to do anything with this group.
*Russ Grimm ... like JZ...has no head coashing experience.
* He is not a WCO guy...SO....
* Be prepared for another Jason Campbell learning the offense year.
* Haven't we already gone the nostalgia route (Gibbs 2.0)
* Why would he want to be a part of this potential mess we have?

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

cL, when did Grimm work for Snyder?

- Was Skins O-Line coach for Norv

(no previous experience as a coordinator), but is/was Grimm a coordinator?

- In both Pitt and with Cards Grimm's role was more than just o-line coach, often billed as asst head coach. Both places titles were vague, but he has been more than just a position coach for a long time now

Its just my belief that a dude in the Grimm mold is better to me than a Zorn type. I am not a fan of these OFF wizard type dudes...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Okay boys and girls, I have to comment one more time about Mr. Portis, our running back.
He has unbeilievable ability and toughness. Those alone make him one of the top backs in the league. The great ones, however, know that great ability alone don't make a great player. The difference between great players and players with great ability is their willingness, eagerness, to practice. Portis hates practice. If he embraced it, he'd be one of the all time greats, no two ways about it.
I commented yesterday that Zorn's scheme was all about precision. Some child, or children, scoffed at that notion. I suppose one of the problems with a public blog like this is that there's no minimum age or qualifications. Any fool or child can comment. Lemme tell you something, West Coast, NFC East power, Ravens incredible D all come as a result of players being precisely where they are supposed to be. They get into place because they practice at getting into place. Do you honestly think that the Giants would be playing the way they do without practice and the precision that comes from it? If you do, you're a know-nothing fool.
Since the days of Fat Sonny, I have loved, grumbled over, and cheered the 'skins. My pop did from the days of Slingin' Sammy Baugh. I will be their fan, regardless of ownership, until the day I die.
And while I'm on my rant, allow me to say that if Cerrato got nothing more right than the hiring of Zorn theis year, he's had a decent season as a GM. If he fires Zorn, though I can't imagine why, his good year would go down the toilet, and he should follow it.
Neil in Durango

Posted by: neilbourjaily | December 11, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

cL, when did Grimm work for Snyder?

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:15 AM

Didn't he work for Snyder under Norv? Wasn't Grimm one of the victims of Marty's bloodbath?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

flound, thanks for posting that.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

First; Grimm ain't gonna come here unless he get's crazy money(possible with Snyder)Second; O line coach would be a step back as far as his career is concerned.Third you would think he's a top candidate for H/C around the league.If Zorn's around next year he should let Sherman Smith run the offense period, no input from the H/C unless there's a huge problem i.e.points,turnovers,personel I think Zorn has Sherman as a figurehead nothing more, i mean he probably bounces ideas off Smith but Zorn has final say on the gameplan.I think Smith is more than capable so Zorn should give it a shot.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 11, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: COskins | December 11, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

If JZ is fired/demoted my guess is we go after Mike Holmgren. (that way the offense does not get too out of whack.
I more or less agree with Pfunk

Hiring new HC next year = power rankings


Posted by: alex35332 | December 11, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Listen, as I have stated, I was talking in the hypothetical and responding to beantown's request for a name and a rationale which I provided.

But Cej, your post is silly:

"* Haven't we already gone the nostalgia route (Gibbs 2.0)"

How is it nostalgia to seriously consider a very successful assit HC in the league who has been coaching since the second he left playing, has experienced the regime of another good coach (cowher) been on a SB winning staff. Won SB as player and coach. Is the number 2 in turning around the Cardinals...AND understands the team/market and owner (which may be a negative as far as Grimm is concerned...HA!)

I mean yes, maybe new HC talk equals power ranking but suggesting that Grimm is not a super legit candidate for ANY HC job is straight Tardville.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Zorn probably deserves another year. The record will be decent but as CL said I don't like how soft the team played towards the end of the year. Had we started off dismal and played better towards the end of the year it would be ok.

What is the HC's biggest responsibility? To steer the ship and keep everyone fighting till the end, to overcome the hardships of a tough NFL season.

For all Gibbs shortcomings with X's and O's in 2.0 he was still a master of the intangible. You can get good coordinators to run the plays, but there has to be someone steering the ship and that can only be the HC. That is something you either have or you don't.

Posted by: Gweez | December 11, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Also forgot to mention that the FO is bent on developing Campbell. That was (apparently) one of the key issues in their HC hiring search. Neither Cowher nor Grimm could contribute anything to that. Firing Zorn and bringing in someone new just sets Campbell back one more year...again.

Posted by: p1funk | December 11, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Miami also changed the GM ... actually, EVERYBODY below the level of owner (except for roster).

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Only 24 of last year's team is on this year's 53 man roster, so Jeff Ireland changed out the players too.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

From the great wiki

After hanging up his player's cleats, Grimm returned to the Redskins as a tight end coach (from 1992 through 1996, and offensive line coach from 1997 through 2000, during which he was instrumental in the development of tackles Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen. After his coaching stint with the Redskins, Grimm joined the Pittsburgh Steelers as offensive line coach in September 2000. In 2004 he was promoted to Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 11, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

cL, thx on the data. Forgot about the timing pre-Pittsburgh.

COskins, NICE! BOTH a tribute to firsting AND use of the term "meme."

I sense a positive turn in the mood of the blog now ... turning point moment.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Love the meme, but if you noticed for me analogous is the new meme....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Can Plax shoot himself in the other leg so we can move passed the Portis and Zorn situation. For some reason, I think this wont be the last word.

Posted by: erleach | December 11, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

your argument cant be precision and execution because there will never be a game where you have 100% execusion and precision.

your job as a coach is to make adjustments to what the defense is giving you and exploit it, you dont run your current offense no matter what and say we need to execute better, because you will always need to execute better.

you hear it everyweek win your 1 on 1 battles, if one lineman loses his battle that should not throw off an entire play of series.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

OK, didn't mean to fal into new coach/Grimm rabbit hole. Its clearly an issue for me.....blame Beantown he invited it!

Move along, Zornstar is our man and we must support him.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I just read the PFT entry on the Skins souring on Zorn. If Zorn has lost the locker room already, then he needs to go IMMEDIATELY. I'm sure Redcoat can chime in on what happens when a locker room no longer trusts their head coach...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

What if we offer Mike Holmgren our Offensive Coordinator spot?
Or is that truly crazy?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 11, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

F Holmgren

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

CL, I guess my frustration stems from the fact that Zorn has been given a whole 13 games. And we all agreed that the first 8 went well. So, to push him aside after the last 5 seems hasty to me.

I agree that Grimm is appears to be a fine asst coach. But, to jump up and down ( not that you are) and scream from the Wilson Bridge that Russ Grimm will come in here and lead us to a 12-4 record in 2009 is ludacris. With the change in coach comes change in philosophy, change in players, asst coaches , etc....

We all b**ch about the national perception of this team. " High priced free agents, changes coaches every other year, etc." Maybe, we are part of the problem. After a 1-4 stretch Zorn all of the sudden is a bum?? I understand he has a different personality...but so might the next coach...should we dump him after 1 year? What if we win out ( snicker snicker)? No really, what if we win out and still miss the play-offs. We will be 10-6. Pretty good record for a first year head coach, huh?

Anyhow, CL. We will agree to disagree. I just think it is knee-jerk to say how terrible Zorn is after this stretch.

( By the way, I will not use the word Tardville)

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

cL, I'm also teetering, but thinking out hypothetically too. I'm definitely thinking this season CANNOT cost Zorn his job, but like stripping away Lieberman's chairmanship on that Senate subcommittee, I sense that there will be some token "correction" directed at Zorn, like maybe costing him his choice of offensive coordinator (sorry Sherm). If Joe Bugel does decide to pack it in, then an O-line minded OC (Grimm or anyone else) might be what that kind of subcommittee chairmanship looks like (esp. given that both Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell are supposed to have the bases covered on the running game). Remember that bit last week about Randy Thomas non-complaining complaints about how the running game is NOT the same because they don't pull the guards as much? Just a thought ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

brown, 50 percent of the time, PFT is accurate 100 percent of the time......

cl, just found your knife, was jammed in my back....


The ol is gonna be key this weekend. if these cats can gel, then running/passing yards can be had. I'm hoping that most everyone is pissed off come Sunday....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

+++"bust" talk of 11, 12, 86 at this point is premature. Sure you expect 2nd round draft picks to make a contribution and impact early and no doubt this year has been a disappointment but it's not exactly Year 3 and we're still waiting for production (Matt Jones, Troy Williamson, etc.) - let the big 3 get on the field and produce

Posted by: forever21++++

Let's say they arrive in year three. That's not the point.

The POINT is they've been busts--all three of them--THIS YEAR. If you are drafting THREE receivers in the second round, is it asking too much for one of them, at least, to produce immediately? Of course not. Especially when plenty of rookie receivers HAVE, guys drafted after the Terrific Trio.

And if you WERE drafting them just for the future, why would you throw away a 2nd round pick for a rental like Jason Taylor, who will be gone soon?

No the trouble lies squarely in the clueless front office--which can't come up with a coherent plan for victory.

Posted by: TheCork | December 11, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

We all b**ch about the national perception of this team. " High priced free agents, changes coaches every other year, etc." Maybe, we are part of the problem.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 10:38 AM

No chance this is true...fans are fans. When we win we're going to the Super Bowl. When we lose we feel like we'll never win again. That's why a fan is NOT supposed to run the franchise he loves. I know it works in New England, but their owner has the wisdom to put football people in charge and stay the hell out of the way. Our owner likes playing Madden with the REAL Redskins. So the problem isn't the fans, it's the owner acting like a fan.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I feel ya cej, like I said I generally subscribe to your thinking.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Cool Beantown can you remove, wipe and return?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I just read the PFT entry on the Skins souring on Zorn. If Zorn has lost the locker room already, then he needs to go IMMEDIATELY. I'm sure Redcoat can chime in on what happens when a locker room no longer trusts their head coach...


Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 10:35 AM

Tom Coughlin had "lost the locker room" with the Giants, but it's a good thing the Giants didn't make him go IMMEDIATELY. When management backs the coach, then "the locker room" will come around.

In the off season, if they get rid of three or four of the malcontents it will change the attitude of the others. Except Portis, of course who's already been assured that the owner love him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

+++I love Kornheiser, he is da man! They need to film him from his right side on MNF to hide that hideous comb-over.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden+++

What is MOST needed for Kornheiser on Mondays is a liberal application of duct tape over his pie hole. He has become the biggest, most egomaniacal blowhard in the history of sports television, and that includes Cosell.

He will never say in five words what he can surround in five paragraphs of blabber. I watch MNF with the sound down.

Posted by: TheCork | December 11, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I'll chime in on Miami's debacle last year, but will also say I don't think you guys are in that territory - not at all.

Cam lost the locker room early because he was unconcerned with the defense. He left them hanging while he tinkered with the offense (figuring they would keep us in games, which they did for a little while).

He then alienated Jason Taylor, and by extension all the veterans - who again were mostly on the defense - by dismissing his concerns on how the season was going.

He then gave in to player-power by first suspending/sending home Keith Traylor after a fight then letting him back in because the players told him he "had to".

There are some similarities here at face value (offensive minded coach, plenty of older players) but I think you're in a different place overall.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I know this is late, but the Jenkins article is a very good one, I know, it shocked me too

For everyone "thinking" it's time to fire Zorn, you should read it, she actually makes some very good points.

I personally think it would be absolutely stupid to fire Zorn after one year. Especially THIS year considering how diverse the season has been. The guy clearly was doing things VERY right early on. Exactly what has changed and why the team has floundered is debatable, but the fact that they were able to do what they did early HAS to earn him another year.

This current crash is something that good coaches would learn from, how can we find out if he can learn if we don't give him another year?

Posted by: craig2 | December 11, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

your argument cant be precision and execution because there will never be a game where you have 100% execusion and precision.

your job as a coach is to make adjustments to what the defense is giving you and exploit it, you dont run your current offense no matter what and say we need to execute better, because you will always need to execute better.

you hear it everyweek win your 1 on 1 battles, if one lineman loses his battle that should not throw off an entire play of series.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11


Grrrrrr.

1. Passing patterns absolutely demand precision. The quarterback has to trust that the receiver will be where he is supposed to be after he breaks because the ball is often thrown before the break. A lot of interceptions happen when the reciver makes his cut too shallow or too deep and makes the quarterback look foolish. "Precise routes" is a term often found when describing a good receiver. Secondly, the quarterback has to have a mental image where all of his receivers will be on the play, because he only has a critical second or two to make the decision whom to throw to. Zorn has been reluctant to use his rookies because they have not run the correct routes.

2. On running plays the Skins do not even block the right people. It's true that they can lose the one on one battles but lately they have not even figured out which lineman to block.

3. Precision and execution has everything to do with preparation. This is where the current coaches have failed, in my opinion. There may be a good plan but the team fails to understand it and execute it, so all share the blame for the results. Zorn has to acknowledge this with the players first, I do not care if he does a public apology. Is it too late to salvage the season? Yes, I think so, because I lot of these issues have to be dealt with in the next training camp.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

TE:

Being that I am forced to follow Giants up here, your Giants analogy holds up upon first glance, but not further scrutiny.

First of all they hired Coughlin to "lose the locker room" they needed a task master after Fassell....so when he got the result he was hired to get, his job was not in jeopardy.

second, he was making the playoffs all those years his team was in "turmoil" so that takes the edge off a bit.

third who did they ship out? Tiki retired, Strahan retired....and they got lucky when Shockey got hurt and than with a ring in there pocket without him could trade him with no downside. Also they gave Plex a huge contract.

Fourth, Anyone who argues Coughlin didnt have a much longer track record, experience and the respect that comes with it, just is not paying attention.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Brown, overall...agreed...fans are fans and we are supposed to be irrational !!

But it is also hypocritical to say " Man, Cowherd is a jerk. Can you believe what he said about us?...Pasquerelli is an a****le, he hates us.......The wad Dr. Z is at it again....etc

When we do the exact same thing! Dunno, just talkin out loud.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

RC,

The difference there was that not only did WH replace the coach he also changed the entire front office and set the team in motion for rebuilding. Danny is unwilling to do that. Vinny is the only guy willing to be Danny's puppet and ultimately replacing Zorn won't solve the truly pressing issues of this team.

Posted by: Gweez | December 11, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

+++I agree that canning Zorn would be typical Snyder. At the same time I am not sure I care. Still would like to see him succeed, but not sure he has what it takes. But Beantown asks for who instead of Zorny, so I will provide:

(Now Beanie since I know you, let me say this: This is what I would do, or what I think would be smart. Not what I think will happen)

Russ Grimm+++--CHRIS LARRY

I think Zorn wil be a great coach. On the West Coast.

Those who argue a WCO won't work in the NFC East have won the argument.

Sure overworking a bell cow runner and wearing out an aging line and tossing the ball around will work early in a season, but the impact of NFC East style football is cumulative.

(And by NFC East, I include the Pitts and Baltimores of the world).

The skins have been wron down and worn out. Even a real good defense like Tampa Bay got worked by a running game last in the year

Big ugly slobberknockers. Skins need more of them, and they need a coach who loves them.

Ladell Betts running circle routes doesn't beat Baltimore. Neither, unfortunately could a beat to hell Portis running behind a beat to hell line.

I thought Zorn was the exception. I was seduced. I was wrong.

Posted by: TheCork | December 11, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

brown, 50 percent of the time, PFT is accurate 100 percent of the time......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 10:42 AM

So PFT is like Sex Panther?

I doubt Florio would make this up. This story isn't nearly juicy enough to warrant that kind of rampant speculation, and quite frankly it's kind of a no-brainer assumption. I hope the report is wrong because I think we're stuck with Zorn at least one more year, but if it's anywhere near true it's a HUGE problem going into 2009...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Driley, that was kind of my point, I played football and understand precision and execution but if everyweek you blame it on execution and precision then maybe that is not the only problem.

I am not for firing Zorn because I beleive he deserves another year, but at some point you have to fit your scheme to the players and not the other way around.

As much as i love gibbs if he went to denver and tried to run our run first offense with those thin lineman who are made better for passing and stretch plays where they get out in space he would fail.

so my point is meet your players half way, dont expect your players to do stuff that they are not good at.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

if/thans with ChRis LaRRy

IF firing Zorn means vINNY and front office goes in a great purge, THAN I am for it...

If Vinny is kept around and FO structure remains than I think keep Zorn

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Brown, pft is like a diaper full of indian food....

"Those who argue a WCO won't work in the NFC East have won the argument"

Cork, when Philly won the NFC east 4 years in a row, what offense were they running....

Lets see what happens when the Redskins have a decent offensive line?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Tom Coughlin had "lost the locker room" with the Giants, but it's a good thing the Giants didn't make him go IMMEDIATELY. When management backs the coach, then "the locker room" will come around.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 10:45 AM

Agreed...but are you confident that we have the strength in the FO to do that? I don't. And it's easier to sell that with a Coughlin because he'd been a head coach elsewhere and had success. Zorn is a rookie with no track record for success and the players know that. Again--hope I'm wrong but I don't see this ending well if PFT's report is true.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Nicely written driley, but what's the solution?

If you acknowledge that you can't block the right people and your receivers aren't running the right routes, you either have to:

$. Run the ball pretty much every down, or,
r. Tell the QB to roll out of the pocket and play gunslinger a-la Favre and Romo.

You could try the first, but I don't sense that Jason is the right QB for the second option.

I will say though that you are dead-on with your 'precision' argument, and part of what you saw in December last year was your receivers running precision routes and TheTodd throwing to where he knew they would be (or Portis/Betts on the screen as an escape route).

What's changed on that? Are the same people running all the wrong routes now? Or is the problem the QB's release time?

Something's missing that's for sure.

*Gratuitous Fins mention*

Marino may have been the King of the Pick-6, but that was often because his release was so fast that if the receiver wasn't exactly right with the route an interception was inevitable. If you want early release from the QB you will have to accept some INTs. It still puzzles me that Zorn - a classic scrambling QB - is insisting on this approach. Is he trying to implement the offsens he would always have liked to play in?

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

The difference there was that not only did WH replace the coach he also changed the entire front office and set the team in motion for rebuilding.

Posted by: Gweez | December 11, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Interestingly Ireland only accepted the GM role in Miami because he was given first, last and ONLY say in all personnel decisions, even over Parcells. He didn't have that - and couldn't get it - in Dallas.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Brown, pft is like a diaper full of indian food....

"Those who argue a WCO won't work in the NFC East have won the argument"

Cork, when Philly won the NFC east 4 years in a row, what offense were they running....

Lets see what happens when the Redskins have a decent offensive line?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:00 AM

I don't know why you hate PFT so much, they're actually pretty good. But to each his own...

On the point of running the WCO in the NFC East: it can work in the regular season but I'm still waiting to see it carry a team to a championship. I know the Eagles got to the Super Bowl a few years ago, but we all know that the team that is 1) healthiest, 2) dominant at the line of scrimmage, and 3) better at stopping the run wins come January. And passing offenses tend to only do well in the playoffs when playing at home, thus negating a Skins advantage since we play outdoors. Philly losing in the NFC Championship 4 years in a row wasn't a coincidence.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Cork,

That is funny the WCO the eagles run just beat the Giants, and beat the Steelers earlier this year.

It also went to 4 NFC championship games in a row the only other team in the NFC to do that was the Cowgirls twice, but your right we lost the argument.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Interestingly Ireland only accepted the GM role in Miami because he was given first, last and ONLY say in all personnel decisions, even over Parcells. He didn't have that - and couldn't get it - in Dallas.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 11, 2008 11:05 AM |

That Jerry Jones job in dallas.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

brown, i actually like pft, they're a good read....the diaper full of indian food is a refenece to Veronica Corningstone's reaction to the sex panther...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"Let's say they arrive in year three. That's not the point.

The POINT is they've been busts--all three of them--THIS YEAR. If you are drafting THREE receivers in the second round, is it asking too much for one of them, at least, to produce immediately? Of course not. Especially when plenty of rookie receivers HAVE, guys drafted after the Terrific Trio.

And if you WERE drafting them just for the future, why would you throw away a 2nd round pick for a rental like Jason Taylor, who will be gone soon?

No the trouble lies squarely in the clueless front office--which can't come up with a coherent plan for victory.

Posted by: TheCork"


DUDE WE GET IT ALREADY

MY GOD

DO YOU DREAM THAT ARGUMENT???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 11, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

The solution is old school. Simplify and repeat and until the execution becomes second nature. Then you expand it. What is the point of putting in 50 new formations if the people on the field don't know them? Vince Lombardi used to run the Packer Sweep in practice every time until every facet of it was perfect in practice. (Some of the players complained of running the same play 20 times over.) Unfortunately we are 13 weeks into the season and who knows who can even show up for practice. So I think that it is a training camp issue for next year.

Last year was different in that the receivers were veterans who seemed to have a better grasp of Saunder's system. (Perhaps their learning curve was more friendly). Secondly, it was Saunder's second year (?) and by then everyone but Campbell was getting on the same page.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Different year same story...we are a team poorly constucted as a hole but a team that has overall good, but not great individual parts... who we keep, who we aquire and how they fit in with what we are trying to do...talent evaluation.... we are suddenly old and small on the o line, and over the hill or never were's on the dline...younger, stronger, bigger faster up front both sides...keep zorn no matter what the finish looks like this year...like it or not the future is tied to Zorn/Campbell...getting rid of zorn without giving him a chance to develope jc and getting his players in here is almost unthinkable....by no means am i certain he is the answer and (JC for that matter) but the foundation of talent needs to be vastly improved before you can make that decision.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | December 11, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

brown, i actually like pft, they're a good read....the diaper full of indian food is a refenece to Veronica Corningstone's reaction to the sex panther...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:14 AM

Greg, I'm an idiot...I totally forgot that line from the movie. Anchorman is one of my favorite comedies of all time and apparently I need to watch it again.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Ron Burgundy: The Germans discovered it in 1904, and they called it "San Diego", which in German means "whale's ------".

Veronica Corningstone: No, I don't think that is what it means. No, it doesn't mean that.

Ron Burgundy: I don't know. I was just trying to impress you. I don't think anyone knows what it means anymore. The translation was lost hundreds of years ago.

Veronica Corningstone: Doesn't it mean "Saint Diego"?

Ron Burgundy: ...No. No, that isn't it.

Veronica Corningstone: No, I'm pretty sure that's what it means.

Ron Burgundy: Agree to disagree.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I was seduced. I was wrong.

Posted by: TheCork | December 11, 2008 10:55 AM

What are six words that could have avoided the expense and national trauma of impeachment proceedings?

I'll take Potent Potables for $800, Alex.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

First of all they hired Coughlin to "lose the locker room" they needed a task master after Fassell....so when he got the result he was hired to get, his job was not in jeopardy.

second, he was making the playoffs all those years his team was in "turmoil" so that takes the edge off a bit.

third who did they ship out? Tiki retired, Strahan retired....and they got lucky when Shockey got hurt and than with a ring in there pocket without him could trade him with no downside. Also they gave Plex a huge contract.

Fourth, Anyone who argues Coughlin didnt have a much longer track record, experience and the respect that comes with it, just is not paying attention.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 11, 2008 10:52 AM

CL,

Zorn - like Coughlin - may well make the playoffs this year.

Not saying Giants fired anyone. If the malcontents retire from the 'Skins, fine. But if not, then we need to get rid of a few of them. This is normal with a coaching change. Lot of guys were pampered under Gibbs, not under Zorn. Portis thinks he's entitled to be pampered under anyone. And, he earns some pampering.

Zorn was hired to improve JC and the offense. He's done the first part. Can't do the second with existing personnel. So, he's doing his job and no reason for management to get rid of him.

My basic point, though, is that a coach who's lost the locker room, doesn't have to be fired IMMEDIATELY. He can regain it, but only with strong support from the front office. I take it you agree with that?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

The solution is old school. Simplify and repeat and until the execution becomes second nature. Then you expand it.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse


Well that only works if your talent is better than the other teams. 3 years ago with a healthy O-line of 24-28 year old Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas and Jansen we could do that. Now look at the line. Not the same players either by age or injury. If you are gun run the ol'"You know what's coming now try to stop it" you'd better make sure the boys in burgandy and gold can beat their men individually.

Posted by: Gweez | December 11, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

For the love of God can people stop talking about axing Zorn? This team needs some continuity. Every time a new HC comes in we have to start over. I don't care if we win another game this year. What is this team going to do if they get into the playoffs? Get creamed in the first round?

We need to give zorn at least 3 more years to develop this team and then decide if it's working or not. Playoffs next year isn't even a must have in my point of view. Years three and four will be the deciding factor as long as the team isn't going 3-13 every year till then.

Posted by: Moose33 | December 11, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

All of you who think we should fire the coach are idiots. The coach makes the call who plays or doesn't. Portis has a big ego. He wasn't doing crap and we were down so we had to throw the ball. Betts is better out of the back field to catch and run. We can't have Portis do whatever he wants. Let Zorn coach. The real problem is the players are not making plays. They have to be held accountable.

Posted by: TheJury | December 11, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 11, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I'm an idiot...I totally forgot that line from the movie.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:33 AM

Uh-oh. Forgetting a line from a movie makes you an idiot? I think we're all in trouble.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"... the players are not making plays. ..."

Posted by: TheJury | December 11, 2008 11:47 AM

Echoes of the Norv Turner post-game presser.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Alex Trebek: Okay, let's just move on to Final Jeopardy. And the category is.. you know what? I tell you what, just write a number. Any number, any number and you win. We'll accept any number, any number at all.. a one, or a two, or a three, or how about a four? It's that simple, I know you can do this. Let's start with French Stewart, who's grinning like an idiot. You look pretty sure of yourself. Think you've got the right answer?

French Stewart: Yes, I'm pretty sure of it, Alex.

Alex Trebek: Well, all you had to do was write down a number. And you wrote...Threeve. A combination of three and five. Simply stunning. And you wagered.. ..Texas with a dollar sign in front of it. I'm speechless.

French Stewart: No, I did not get the answer from anyone else, it all came from Mr. Stewart's noggin.. [ points at his head ] ..up here.

Alex Trebek: That's beautiful. Mr. Reynolds..

Burt Reynolds: Yeah, don't bother, I didn't write anything.

Alex Trebek: Good work, all right. Finally, Mr. Connery.. the category was Numbers, and you wrote.. ..a letter V. Well, I tell you what, my friend - V is a Roman numeral, so despite your best efforts, you answered correctly. Let's see what you wagered.. "Suck it Trebek". That's all the time we have. Good night

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Coaches have to be held accountable too.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

My basic point, though, is that a coach who's lost the locker room, doesn't have to be fired IMMEDIATELY. He can regain it, but only with strong support from the front office. I take it you agree with that?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:41 AM

Again...this FO is LIGHT YEARS from being what New York has. I hate to say it, but it's true.

And I'm curious...who are the 'malcontents' on the Redskins? I thought Gibbs was doing his darnedest to get 'character guys' only (almost at the expense of whether they could actually play)? I just can't think of who could be considered a malcontent on this team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Beantown.....those are classics from SNL.

Sean Connery: I'll take Famous Tit**es for $200, Alex.

Alex Trebek: That's Titles...Famous Titles...

classics!

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Coaches have to be held accountable too.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11, 2008 11:52 AM

There's been no shortage of coach accountability on the Redskins. Ask Marty. What we're all concerned about is not that. It's Vinny accountability.

The only one who clearly has no accountability is the owner, and that might be a problem.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Best of Will Ferrell, Greg! It looks like we own the same DVD collection...

If you don't have it already, get The Best of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog from the Conan O'Brien show. I CRY laughing every time!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Uh-oh. Forgetting a line from a movie makes you an idiot? I think we're all in trouble.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:50 AM

No T_E--it's the fact that I forgot that line from THAT movie. I've seen it over 20 times and there's just no excuse. I've got to execute better than that...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"... the players are not making plays. ..."

Posted by: TheJury | December 11, 2008 11:47 AM

Echoes of the Norv Turner post-game presser.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 11:50 AM


dcsween, so are you saying the players are making plays. Are you watching the same game? The last 5 games they look horrible. Even the win over Seahawks we almost gave the game away. It wasn't Zorn who fumbles the ball away. Our punter can't even punt the ball. Is that Zorn's fault too?? Our kicker can't even kick field goals anymore. Is that Zorn's fault too?? Our line can't even block. Is that Zorn's fault too???

Posted by: TheJury | December 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

You guys are out of your minds...

Fire the coach -- because 55% of the starters are hurt during a stretch when the team had to play the top three defenses in the league???

The Skins still have a wining record and should look a lot better offensively this week. I predict the O-line will actually play better with Samuels and Jansen out, because they were not effective playing hurt...

Posted by: siris | December 11, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

+++Again...this FO is LIGHT YEARS from being what New York has. I hate to say it, but it's true.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse+++


It's funny....the Super Bowl contenders are all considered to have good FO's. "NY has a great FO". But haven't they allowed Plaxico to run amuck all year? SOmething like 40 fines for conduct? It wasn't til the fool shot himself, did they get hardcore. They let Tiki run his mouth about the coach, QB, and other stuff without consequence.

The Titans were bums for years, now,all of the sudden "Boy , they sure now how to get players."

This is not an indictment of anyone uphere specifically....just a national and local observation.


Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

brownwood,

Here's what the PFT article said "we’ve been told that multiple players are developing a sour taste in their mouths regarding the team’s first-year head coach." It didn't name any names. But maybe Coach Candor will name them at his next press conference? Maybe Leigh Torrence was a malcontent and that's why they let him go?

As for what the front office is or isn't, supporting the coach is a step in the right direction.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Coaches have to be held accountable too.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 11, 2008 11:52 AM

There's been no shortage of coach accountability on the Redskins. Ask Marty. What we're all concerned about is not that. It's Vinny accountability.

The only one who clearly has no accountability is the owner, and that might be a problem.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I think the killer mistake Zorn has made is not holding himself accountable. Every mistake is the players fault, the schemes are perfect. Not only is that approach unbelievably arrogant, it is plain wrong.

Posted by: AquaBoogie | December 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I just saw on IMDB that Will Ferral will be in the movie Land of the Lost, thats a bad sign.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 11, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The Titans were bums for years, now,all of the sudden "Boy , they sure now how to get players."

Exactly. They used high first round picks on both Pacman, and Vince Young. If I'm not mistaken, a #3, and a #6, I believe....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

dcsween, so are you saying the players are making plays. ...

Posted by: TheJury | December 11, 2008 11:59 AM

I'm definitely NOT saying that. [Not sure how much of the past few days up here you've read through, but I'm fairly certain that many of the "off with Zorn's head" crowd would agree that I've been in the tank with Zorn on all of this.] What I'm saying is that Norv used to sound like a broken record about needing some guys to make "big plays" ... and losing because other teams' guys made "big plays". [The anti-Zorn vibe has said Zorn's "execution" line = Norv's "big plays" line.] I agree with all the players you called out ... and I throw in ARE, who in addition to leading the league in east-west punt return yards, seems to be dropping ALOT more passes his way than he has since the middle of last season.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

This support Zorn or Support Coach talk is REDICULOUS!

Get rid of them both or Keep them both! I think if we are going to get rid of Zorn then we also need to get rid of all of our other problems. We can't pick sides. Just completely clean house. A fresh new start.

If you don't like that plan...well then the only other option is to kiss and make-up. Maybe Zorn needs to drop his drawers in the locker room on Sunday like Singletary did!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

alex, I think Will Ferrell plays Marshall (from "Marshall, Will, and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greeeeatest earthquake ever known, it shook their tiny raft, and it sent them down, a thousand feet below ... to the Land ... of ... the Lost (lost, lost, lost) ... to the Land ... of the Lost (lost, lost, lost)").

I just want to know who's going to play Chaakaa. I'm thinking Clint Howard.

I know of a local GM who might make a good Sleestak.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I think the killer mistake Zorn has made is not holding himself accountable. Every mistake is the players fault, the schemes are perfect. Not only is that approach unbelievably arrogant, it is plain wrong.

Posted by: AquaBoogie | December 11, 2008 12:05 PM

I agree it's a mistake, but it's not a killer. This one is easily correctable, starting in his next press conference.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"It's funny....the Super Bowl contenders are all considered to have good FO's."

Posted by: cej75024

How is that funny? Isn't that the point of a FO? To build a team that contends and hopefully wins a SB? I could care less if we picked up Plax, TO, Chad Johnson, DHall, Michael Vick, or any other player -- if that team wins the SB, our FO has done it's job.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

It's funny....the Super Bowl contenders are all considered to have good FO's. "NY has a great FO". But haven't they allowed Plaxico to run amuck all year? SOmething like 40 fines for conduct? It wasn't til the fool shot himself, did they get hardcore. They let Tiki run his mouth about the coach, QB, and other stuff without consequence.

The Titans were bums for years, now,all of the sudden "Boy , they sure now how to get players."

Posted by: cej75024 | December 11, 2008 12:03 PM

Um, there's no coincidence that Super Bowl contenders have good FOs. You need that to win with any consistency in this league. And the only reason why Tennessee was down for a while was because they had a tendency to spend a lot, blow it up, and start over again...which puts your team in a situation where you're going 12-4, 13-3, drop to 4-12, 8-8 and are back up again. But if you have to model your team after someone it's the Pittsburgh Steelers. Those guys have a worse O-line than we do and still find a way to win.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

How is that funny?

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 12:15 PM

It's not "ha ha" funny ... more like "this tastes funny."

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I think the killer mistake Zorn has made is not holding himself accountable. Every mistake is the players fault, the schemes are perfect. Not only is that approach unbelievably arrogant, it is plain wrong.

Posted by: AquaBoogie | December 11, 2008 12:05 PM

I agree it's a mistake, but it's not a killer. This one is easily correctable, starting in his next press conference.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough.

Posted by: AquaBoogie | December 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I agree it's a mistake, but it's not a killer. This one is easily correctable, starting in his next press conference.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Easily correctable, sure. It hasn't happened yet, though, even when given multiple opportunities over the last 5 weeks. Who knows what it will take.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Firing the coach = full retardation.

Give the guy more than one stinking year, guys.

We aren't that good, and that's why we are losing some games. Give the new guy some time.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

One thing is for sure Singletary is not MEDIUM. So, if the Skins end up with a record very close to or tied with the 49'ers when they meet I wouldn't be surprised. I would pick the 49'ers at home.

And given that Singletary took over in the middle of the season ... that would just about be it for Jim Zorn in Snidley Owl's eyes.

Posted by: periculum | December 11, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Who knows what it will take.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 12:18 PM

I think after Zorn reads all the blog entries from this week, he'll get the message. He's a smart guy.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

One thing is for sure Singletary is not MEDIUM.

Posted by: periculum | December 11, 2008 12:20 PM

Singletary is WELL DONE. Zorn is trying to get to MEDIUM. Most recently he's been fluctuating between RARE and MEDIUM RARE.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Gweez,

A team that executes will beat a team that does not execute. I agree that a team that has better linemen will have a huge advantage in running any scheme. The Redskins right now do not appear to be a team that can execute any offense because they are succumbing to making the stupid mistakes that have nothing to do with physical dominance but more with the mental part of the game. That can be cured with coaching, drill, and benching the idiots.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what to do with these bunch of guys.... Honestly, when i really, really think about it Snyder and Vinny have very tough decisions to make this offseason.

This team clearly needs to get younger on the OL and DL, alot of the guys who are starting now shouldn't be back with the team next year. It sucks but its reality.

We are too old right now to compete up front.

This is not Portis' fault, and its not Zorn's fault. I blame it on the front office for not drafting younger players in the first 2 rounds of the draft on the DL and OL for the past 2 decades.

How did we win in the 80's we had one of the best OL's and DL's in football, and Bethard was the architect. Casserly was horrible, he didn't address it, and neither has Vinny in this decade.

This is why we are mediocre, and we will stay there till they address it. Clinton, Jason the WR's, Cooley and the back 7 of the D can be as good as you want but if the lines suck....so does the team!!!!!!

Posted by: avbanig | December 11, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

tra thomas is up there, as is runyan, agreed, they're still getting it done however.

cl, thanks for the response, agreed, Grimm would be a good hire....

Beantowngreg, I just wanted to say that I agree, also I wanted to say the difference between our OL and the eagles is that they at least have some young talented guys on their OL, and they defintely have a group of young talented guys on the DL. We have neither!

Posted by: avbanig | December 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

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