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Predict Sunday's result

By Cindy Boren  |  December 22, 2009; 11:05 AM ET
 
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Next: Carter says he'll play despite biceps tear (updated)

Comments

I didn’t think Jim Zorn necessarily had to leave… until last night.

When you get completely undressed at home on national TV to a division rival, to the point that it looks like a HIGH SCHOOL team playing a pro team, that is on the coach. It looked as if we had no gameplan or no preparation whatsoever, like we were completely caught off guard by everything that happened on both sides of the ball.

There was no fire, no pride. Injuries be damned, my friends and I could have put up a better show than that.

And the fact that we CONSTANTLY lay down in prime time and CONSTANTLY can’t even be COMPETETIVE with the Giants – again, its on the coaches.

Whether the whole thing was a sabotage by Zorn, or just the fake FG, either way, there needs to be a new guy in there. If Shanny is the answer, I don’t know, but Zorn can’t get his team up to compete.

On another note, what kind of team goes a whole season WITHOUT a defensive or special teams score?

What kind of team MISSES extra points and 23 yard FGs???

What kind of team just lays down on the biggest stage and embarrasses its fans, and itself? No other team in the league would have played that badly last night.

The refs had nothing to do with it, but could the calls have been any more one sided? The Jacobs/AH thing was a joke, the Giants hold on every play, and JC got thrown to the ground multiple times when sure as hell Eli would have gotten the call.

This team is freaking cursed and I really can’t foresee anything good happening to us as long as I am alive.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

ga8085

"Thing is, I really don't want to defend this team anymore."


Have some perpsective, sir.

The team played on emotion for 4 weeks.

Last night's collapse should've been expected at some point.

Emotion can't cover up all your weaknesses.

And this team has been getting by with B-level guys playing their guts out.

The giants still have the backbone of a team that won a Super Bowl against one of the teams of the ages: the 2007 New England Patriots.

We were kinda supposed to lose.

But not as bad as we did.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

bean

"The Yankees have reached an agreement to acquire Javier Vazquez in a five-player deal with the Braves, SI.com has learned. The deal would send Vazquez and Boone Logan to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and a prospect to Atlanta."


I can not agree with what Cashman is doing here.

Vasquez has already been a Yankee.

And between clutch hitting M Cabrera and N Swisher and B Gardner, how do you decide to trade Cabrera?

Dunn is going to be an excellent reliever, but this all means P Hughes and J Chamberlien might remain in the bullpen, which is a good thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, now is a good time for this poll. Can we get a option for 'Cowboys by at least 50' ?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

If Shanahan comes here, or whoever comes here from another team previously, you should look at the O-linemen they had to see if any are still good. They would most likely be the first tagets of a coach coming in for the Skins. The draft can help, but signing low-mid priced free agents that the coach knows would help turn it around much faster.


Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I guess it feels a little bit better this morning, but damn it, this still sucks. We can endure two more weeks of this, right?

No reports out of Ashburn about a certain coach getting canned, eh?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 22, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

My understanding of the Rooney rule is that it doesn't apply to interim coaches. So why not bring Shanahan in as the interim coach?

Posted by: daggar | December 22, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Jaworski's assessment of the Redskins and JC-17 read like a script of the game last night. Go back and read that article again.

Also, can we please ban the Burgundy on Burgundy uni's from now on? We ALWAYS suck when we wear them.

If it weren't for them, we would have crushed the G-men...

Posted by: edvar | December 22, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

In the case of your last post, I agree with most of where you're going. I thought you were in the "trade everybody" crowd, the same clowns talking about getting a 1 and a 3 for Cooley.

There definitely aren't any sacred cows here, so I would enthusiastically back a full overhaul of the roster and building this thing right. That's the most important function of the new Allen regime, and I just hope that Snyder doesn't pressure these guys to the point that we continue the same "band-aid over a gunshot wound" approach to fixing what ails this team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

In the case of your last post, I agree with most of where you're going. I thought you were in the "trade everybody" crowd, the same clowns talking about getting a 1 and a 3 for Cooley.

There definitely aren't any sacred cows here, so I would enthusiastically back a full overhaul of the roster and building this thing right. That's the most important function of the new Allen regime, and I just hope that Snyder doesn't pressure these guys to the point that we continue the same "band-aid over a gunshot wound" approach to fixing what ails this team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

That was what I was trying to say and did so poorly. I think a lot of cuts need to be made and we need to swing a deal for more picks with somebody. I am not in the trade Cooley camp however. He and Davis may be my only sacred cows for the simple fact that I think its pretty obvious we're going with a young QB and will have a young line as well. Two dynamic tight ends provide a great security blanket for a young QB as well as provide the new coach with a lot of blocking help/pass catching weapons at the same time. Shanny likes play action and bootlegs and having two tight ends that can help block but also stretch the field and are real pass catching threats could be huge. I just think they both need to stay. Anybody else is fair game IMO.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood, that's crazy. All we need to do is trade up to take a top QB in the draft and were going to the Superbowl.

Get on the train!

Posted by: edvar | December 22, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

moe, Bay is a yankee by new years....book it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I don't think they'll win either of the last two games.

San Diego hasn't wrapped up the second seed yet, and Norv may want to get a win against The Danny just for kicks.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Moe: Cashman already announced only one of Joba/Hughes will be in rotation and they will battle in spring training...the other to the pen.

(during grandy's presser)

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Some interesting nuggets passed by Steinbog:

I also chatted briefly with the Elias Sports Bureau's Steve Hirdt, the father of the Redskins Rule and the source for all the best Monday Night Football stats. He dropped these nuggets on me:

* For all the talk of quarterbacking turnover, this is one of the most stable periods of quarterbacking in the franchise's history. Jason Campbell has started 50 of the past 53 regular season Redskins' games. The last time a Skins quarterback started such a high percentage of games for such a long period of time came during Joe Theismann's final 53 starts, ending on Monday Night Football in 1985. (He started all of those 53 games.)

* Jason Campbell has now thrown multiple TD passes in three straight games. That's only happened twice previously in this decade: Patrick Ramsey did it for three straight games in 2003, and Mark Brunell did it for five straight games in 2005.

* The last time Todd Collins participated in a Monday Night Football game, he was playing for Marv Levy and facing Jimmy Johnson and Dan Marino, with Al Michaels, Frank Gifford and Dan Dierdorf in the booth. That was 1997. But if Collins plays tonight, he still wouldn't match the longest drought between MNF appearances, which was set by Doug Flutie (1986-1999).

* Antwaan Randle El is in the midst of the longest scoring drought of his career.

* Through six home games, the Redskins have one rushing touchdown.

* Jim Zorn is tied with Bart Starr for the following record: most passes attempted by a man who went on to become an NFL head coach. Oddly, both men had exactly 3,149 attempts. Starr's record as a coach was 52-76-3, for a winning percentage of .406. Zorn is currently 12-17, for a winning percentage of .414. It's been suggested that NFL quarterbacks don't make the best head coaches; this might be some evidence.

By Dan Steinberg | December 21, 2009; 3:59 PM ET

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Who cares about Dallas. The Redskins need to be concerned about theie dayum selves!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

No reports out of Ashburn about a certain coach getting canned, eh?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 22, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse


Sort of...Jim Zorn is launching a new canned energy drink: MEDIUM!

Only comes in small or large cans, though. Go figure.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

... I am not in the trade Cooley camp however. He and Davis may be my only sacred cows for the simple fact that I think its pretty obvious we're going with a young QB and will have a young line as well. Two dynamic tight ends provide a great security blanket for a young QB as well as provide the new coach with a lot of blocking help/pass catching weapons at the same time. Shanny likes play action and bootlegs and having two tight ends that can help block but also stretch the field and are real pass catching threats could be huge. I just think they both need to stay. Anybody else is fair game IMO.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 11:21 AM

Agreed and righteously so. Add Yoder to the herd of sacred cows, and we can call this a deal and start free agency now. Let's just go right to starting right tackle ... who's up (and is he ready to play on the left side for a few games while the first round OT gets his sea legs)?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

So how is the NFC East going to finish up? Who stays home?

Eagles (10-4, clinched playoff berth) host Broncos, visit Cowboys

Cowboys (9-5) visit Redskins, host Eagles

Giants (8-6) host Panthers, visit Vikings

And if the Giants and Cowboys finish with the same record, which of them will have the tiebreaker?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 22, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Sort of...Jim Zorn is launching a new canned energy drink: MEDIUM!

Only comes in small or large cans, though. Go figure.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 11:28 AM |

That's the funniest post I've seen on here in a while, and there have been some funny ones...

Well played, sir!

Posted by: edvar | December 22, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

etrod....nice

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Also, Hunter Smith should be in the sacred cow barn too. Reliable punter (and holder) is new HC/new QB comfort blanket too. [I figure Albright is the Red Angus of the herd for as long as he can walk and snap, in that order.]

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

These problems seem beyond even the most brilliant and savvy football minds. The stigma that Snyder has created in ten years of ownership is the perfect repellent for a good football team.

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | December 22, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you know what Bruce Campbell actually does. I'll give you a clue since you don't have one. Before Bruce went to Tampa they were stuck in salary cap hell. When he left they went into free agency with $61 million to spend. He's not a scout. We already have scouts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Nate - Giants (of course) have tiebreaker over Dallas AND Pack - so Dallas and Pack pretty much have to win out.

GB has it over Dallas, so if they all ended up tied, it would be GB and NYG.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

guy that I work with who is a Bills fan just said to me, 'nice to know there is a team more inept than the bills'.......I'm gonna flatten his tires during my lunch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should be Canned by the End of the day !

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | December 22, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

It's been suggested that NFL quarterbacks don't make the best head coaches; this might be some evidence.

By Dan Steinberg | December 21, 2009; 3:59 PM ET

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:26 AM


Good call. That explains why Sean Payton is doing such an awful job in New Orleans.

SMH...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

icognito= Dallas fan d-bag

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

guy that I work with who is a Bills fan just said to me, 'nice to know there is a team more inept than the bills'.......I'm gonna flatten his tires during my lunch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:36 AM


LOL, Greg...also show him highlights of the '92 Super Bowl just for good measure.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Gosh, what a silly poll question.

Okay, I can't think of a better one but I reserve the right to complain about everything right now.

Bah humbug.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 22, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn is tied with Bart Starr for the following record: most passes attempted by a man who went on to become an NFL head coach. Oddly, both men had exactly 3,149 attempts. Starr's record as a coach was 52-76-3, for a winning percentage of .406. Zorn is currently 12-17, for a winning percentage of .414. It's been suggested that NFL quarterbacks don't make the best head coaches; this might be some evidence.

By Dan Steinberg | December 21, 2009; 3:59 PM ET


Norm Van Brocklin I heard was pretty good.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

The Giants have to win out, but they won't.

Minnesota (at home) is probably going to need the last game to keep the Eagles from getting the second seed.

The wildcards will be GB and Dallas, imho.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

If Shanahan comes here, or whoever comes here from another team previously, you should look at the O-linemen they had to see if any are still good.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM |

There was a reason why nobody had sniffed at Levi Jones until the Skinz obliged. He was a human EZ Pass toll both for Usi Umenyiora last night. Singlehandedly revived the dud's languishing career.

Posted by: TLoad | December 22, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

guy that I work with who is a Bills fan just said to me, 'nice to know there is a team more inept than the bills'.......I'm gonna flatten his tires during my lunch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:36 AM
-----------------------------------------
Just tell him the Redskins aren't so bad that they needed to move to another country...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

chrislarry

(last Yankee post, promise)

"...Cashman already announced only one of Joba/Hughes will be in rotation and they will battle in spring training...the other to the pen..."


Then Hughes will be the fifth starter.

Joba is a reliever, plain and simple.

That's a rotation of:

Sabathia

Burnett

Petitite

Vasquez

Hughes


That's killa.

Can we say, 28th?

Yes we can.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

thanks moe, like my day's not bad enough.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

The last time a Skins quarterback started such a high percentage of games for such a long period of time came during Joe Theismann's final 53 starts, ending on Monday Night Football in 1985. (He started all of those 53 games.
By Dan Steinberg | December 21, 2009; 3:59 PM ET

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:26 AM |

Which reminds me...was it really necessary for espn to show "Theeesman's Leg" in the pregame show, just before kickoff? Pretty sure we all know that was against the Giants on MNF, and the image was long ago seared into our brains forever.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 22, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I would not have fired Zorn at halftime, if I were Snyder. Oh no.

After the GiAnts 3rd TD, I would have been chasing him down the sideline with a Louisville Slugger.

This was a classic Jim Zorn Redskins performance. Completely underprepared, in all phases of the game. Pathetic. Zorn is outclassed in the NFL as a head coach. The only bright spot for me was Jason Campbell, who hung in there when a normal human would have let the injury keep him from getting further pummeled in the second half.

Did somebody say that Heyer's replacement played well? Really? He barely slowed the DE down.


Argh. Bad. Bad. Bad.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 22, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

*Penciling in 'Pain' on the poll ballot*

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

moe, may your lawn be infested with grubs, poison ivy, and crab grass, and may Mrs. Moe, declare 2010 a s*x free year.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

quick check: isn't the idea of a sacred cow what got God pissed enough about Moses' people that not doing that was one of the first three Commandments? Or was that just something that Edward G. Robinson came up with on the set of that Charleton Heston movie?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

As in "to the pain"?

If losing builds character, the Redskins became Nelson Mandela last night.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 22, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

don't think you know what Bruce Campbell actually does. I'll give you a clue since you don't have one. Before Bruce went to Tampa they were stuck in salary cap hell. When he left they went into free agency with $61 million to spend. He's not a scout. We already have scouts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Who is Bruce Campbell PakistaniFan?

You can not have a cap when the owner doesnt believe in one ...

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you know what Bruce Campbell actually does. I'll give you a clue since you don't have one. Before Bruce went to Tampa they were stuck in salary cap hell. When he left they went into free agency with $61 million to spend. He's not a scout. We already have scouts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Someone may have asked this at some point, but in case not, I figured I should. Why exactly do we need Allen if after this year, there probably won't be a salary cap? At first I was excited about finally having a GM, but if it's just gonna be another layer of bureaucracy (since he doesn't evaluate personnel), I'm not sure.

Posted by: Daspig | December 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

can they at least fire someone today, anyone, even the water boy, heck one cheerleader. It will just seem better

Posted by: connskins | December 22, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Which reminds me...was it really necessary for espn to show "Theeesman's Leg" in the pregame show, just before kickoff? Pretty sure we all know that was against the Giants on MNF, and the image was long ago seared into our brains forever.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 22, 2009 11:44 AM


Playing devil's advocate a bit, I can see why ESPN went that way, it probably is the most memorable Skins/Giants MNF game of all-time, simply because of how gruesome that injury was.

That said, my skin crawls literally EVERY time I see that...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

This loss falls squarely on the shoulders of the impatient Danny.

The team had been playing well for a month knowing full well that most people would be gone next year--i.e. Vinny, JZ, ARE et al.

By bringing in Bruce Allen, Danny brought reality to the forefront and wiped out any enthusiasm from recent efforts.

I only hope that Bruce can gather some useful information from running the team for the last two games, 'cuz he done learned nuthin' last night.

Posted by: BigE44 | December 22, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

This was a classic Jim Zorn Redskins performance. Completely underprepared, in all phases of the game. Pathetic. Zorn is outclassed in the NFL as a head coach. The only bright spot for me was Jason Campbell, who hung in there when a normal human would have let the injury keep him from getting further pummeled in the second half.

Did somebody say that Heyer's replacement played well? Really? He barely slowed the DE down.


Argh. Bad. Bad. Bad.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 22, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse
------------------------------------

So JZ is supposed to sprinkle on some Osi-B-Gone on Levi Jones? Or maybe he could hot block Ganther into the A gap? Perhaps he could have installed some ref bumpers on Orakpo, and some Fabreeze on Landry so at least the whiffs smell good.

There is a common saying about what you get when you attempt to polish turds, and Zorn is learning it. You can't place it all on Zorn. We all piled on Vinny for his shenanigans, and rightly so, but we can make ZERO assumptions about Zorn at this point, because this team just plain stinks on toast right now.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Who is Bruce Campbell PakistaniFan?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

He's the guy from all the Evil Dead movies. Army of Darkness was my personal favorite

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Someone may have asked this at some point, but in case not, I figured I should. Why exactly do we need Allen if after this year, there probably won't be a salary cap? At first I was excited about finally having a GM, but if it's just gonna be another layer of bureaucracy (since he doesn't evaluate personnel), I'm not sure.

Posted by: Daspig | December 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

You know it's probably coming right back in 2011. Only 2010 will be uncapped. Bruce Allen(got his name right this time, Bruce Campbell is the tackle out of Maryland that I think we will draft.) would then use 2010 to dump off and restructure as many contracts as possible. I asusme he's brought in to do the 2010 house cleaning that we so depserately need.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you know what Bruce Campbell actually does. I'll give you a clue since you don't have one. Before Bruce went to Tampa they were stuck in salary cap hell. When he left they went into free agency with $61 million to spend. He's not a scout. We already have scouts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Bruce Campbell was vitally important in fighting the undead in Tampa, especially with that chainsaw hand of his.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

will be a cap/won't be is still up in the air. So you need a talented GM to navigate that....

I mean can I get a "Duh"

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

From the wikipedias about Sean Payton/QB:

"In 1987, he played quarterback for the Chicago Bruisers during the inaugural season of the Arena Football League. He was also a member of the Chicago Bears squad of replacement players during the 1987 NFL players strike. In 3 games he completed 8 of 23 passes (34.8%), for 79 yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT, for a QB Rating of 27.3. He was also sacked 7 times for 47 yards and had one rush attempt for 28 yards.

In 1988, he played in the United Kingdom for the Leicester Panthers. Payton landed the starting quarterback role for the Panthers. Payton led the Panthers to a touchdown on the first possession. That same season saw the Panthers go to the Quarterfinals of the British League, eventually losing to the London Olympians."

I think the difference is that both Zorn and Spurrier played in the NFL as non-scabs (for expansion teams). Spurrier also won the Heisman ... which maybe explains why Spurrier

Has anyone found a QB as HC article in the football e-journalism? I'm wondering if whether having a "natural tension" btwn the HC and QB is part of what makes great QB/great HC combos work ... as in, sometimes its necessary to run the ball ... and/or to freak out at the QB and such (not Childress level freak out, but regular level freak out).

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

matt, given that, why was JC under center at ALL during this game?? Why wasn't he operating out of the shotgun from the get-go?? They did NOTHING offensively, to couteract their own poor line, and the other teams fierce pass rush. They simply trotted out what they had and expected to have good results.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Bruce Campbell was vitally important in fighting the undead in Tampa, especially with that chainsaw hand of his.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Ha! Beat you to it

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

cL, duh.

Shop smart. Shop S-mart.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Zorn apologists have an extra chromosome, or one less....definitely and irregularity.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to know who in the locker room is pissed off about getting bullied last night...who is gonna show up on Sunday, and fight....who is tired of losing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Re: this poll ... do we really have to start thinking about Dallas (F Dallas) already? For peeps voting for the leading vote getter (Dallas by 20 or more), there should be a sub-poll ... will Suisham have more or less than seven FGs?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

matt, given that, why was JC under center at ALL during this game?? Why wasn't he operating out of the shotgun from the get-go?? They did NOTHING offensively, to couteract their own poor line, and the other teams fierce pass rush. They simply trotted out what they had and expected to have good results.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:58 AM
------------------------------------------
What could they do? Sellers is gimpy, Fred Davis can't block worth a darn, Mason and Ganther both showed they can't block - Yoder was the only blocker outside of the o-linemen. All NY had to do was bring seven guys or more on the blitz and they knew that someone would be whiffed on. As an added bonus they had offensive linemen missing occasionally.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

For the important kicks that he missed, there is one that I would LOVE to see Suisham make ... a soccer-style one into Romo's ribs.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to know who in the locker room is pissed off about getting bullied last night...who is gonna show up on Sunday, and fight....who is tired of losing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:04 PM
------------------------------------------
I heard Hunter Smith was pissed off and wasn't going to take anymore !&%# from anyone...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Marcus Mason looked pretty good last night. I would like to see more of him running the ball and receiving. If they cut the other three backs ( Portis, Betts, & Rock ) And went into the offseason with Ganther & Mason and drafted a young stud. And look for offseason waiver wire RB's that could add something to the running game until a stud can be established as the future RB. The Running game will work if you use the down hill blocking scheme that Shanny loves to run. Running Backs just work in his system.

Posted by: thebanker21 | December 22, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Uncapped year: does this mean if you cut a player in 2010 that his signing bonus accelerates? And does this mean that a team trading a player won't have his bonus accelerate into their cap?

If so, then lots of guys, like Portis, who are older with high cap numbers are going to get cut. There may be a wholesale bloodletting of guys over 30.

It also means that trades of top earners will be more likely, since a team can afford to do so without creating dead cap space.

The one silver lining here is that the Redskins are not going to be restricted in the number of FA they can sign. If DAL and NYG make the playoffs, they'll be restricted from signing FA, which means WAS is in a better position to pick up top FA.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 22, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

we can make ZERO assumptions about Zorn at this point, because this team just plain stinks on toast right now.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM


I used to buy this, but after last night there's no way that flies anymore. You also overlook the fact this was a 9-7 playoff team when he showed up. The dramatic downturn isn't ALL his fault, but damn it if he's not a big factor in the equation.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

rsh, shotgun on passing downs, roll jc out of the pocket, have the RB actually CHIP the DE on their way out of the pocket, 6 ol, I don't know, pick one......but again, to do what they did, and expect it to work, just becuase you 'called it to work' is galactically stupid....

expecting Heyer to handle tuck, is kind of dumb, so when they just did nothing other than expecting Heyer to handle tuck, thats just stupid....for the sake of stupidity...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

moe, may your lawn be infested with grubs, poison ivy, and crab grass, and may Mrs. Moe, declare 2010 a s*x free year.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:49 AM |

You are really mean. Giving it away free an all, the fambly income would vanish. They would have to go on the dole. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Posted by: TLoad | December 22, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to know who in the locker room is pissed off about getting bullied last night...who is gonna show up on Sunday, and fight....who is tired of losing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Who cares? they are bringing a knife to a gunfight with this roster, fighting and being tired of losing can't make up for the fact that they have the worst oline in the league and the worst collection of safeties in the league. Its funny, the Giants were playing 3 backups on the oline against our supposed vaunted pass rush and Eli had all day to throw. And they were starting 3 of their bottom of the depth chart guys in their secondary but we only had one decent pass play all night to Moss (thrown by Collins I might add) because our line can't block for more than 2 seconds. Funny how depth comes into play late in NFL seasons especially on the oline......

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Marcus Mason looked pretty good last night. I would like to see more of him running the ball and receiving. If they cut the other three backs ( Portis, Betts, & Rock ) And went into the offseason with Ganther & Mason and drafted a young stud. And look for offseason waiver wire RB's that could add something to the running game until a stud can be established as the future RB. The Running game will work if you use the down hill blocking scheme that Shanny loves to run. Running Backs just work in his system.

Posted by: thebanker21 | December 22, 2009 12:10 PM
------------------------------------------
I think Ganther and Mason showed they are not so good with blitz pickups. I'd keep them around but this is something they need to work on. If Shanahan is coming, these two are gone. They are not prototypical one cut running backs. Shanahan has a history of finding running backs in the later rounds and through free agency and I think he will probably bring in a stable of running backs. The running backs don't matter if the o-line cannot block, so job #1 is fix the o-line.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Finally, the guys on ESPN 980 are stating that the whole, they are playing hard for Zorn is such crap...

They have zero respect for this guy, they only want him to stay is b/c he doesnt enforce any discipline.

I really do wonder how much house cleaning there will be??

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

we can make ZERO assumptions about Zorn at this point, because this team just plain stinks on toast right now.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM

Zorny has earned all the assumptions we have about him. Dumbest ass I have ever seen. Please fire him today so he can't mock us again against the Cowboys.

Posted by: diamond_jim | December 22, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I used to buy this, but after last night there's no way that flies anymore. You also overlook the fact this was a 9-7 playoff team when he showed up. The dramatic downturn isn't ALL his fault, but damn it if he's not a big factor in the equation.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

*************

That 9-7 team was mostly due to the emotion after Sean Taylor passed away. That team had a 5-11 record just the year before and had another equally terrible season in Gibbs first year back.

The roster has svcked for years. The rosster is nothing better than 9-7, 8-8.

I pick the Redskins to win on Sunday because they have to play with some emotion after the can of whoop-a$$ that got laid on the yesterday. And they are 0-5 against the NFC East this season. And I hate the Cowboys and dont want to see them in the play offs.

Posted by: vmrg1974 | December 22, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Btwn the league, the players union, and whoever their respective insurance carriers are, I think this is the article that made this season the season of the concussion (b/c it can't be that anything else would have changed things from past seasons ...).

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

rsh, shotgun on passing downs, roll jc out of the pocket, have the RB actually CHIP the DE on their way out of the pocket, 6 ol, I don't know, pick one......but again, to do what they did, and expect it to work, just becuase you 'called it to work' is galactically stupid....

expecting Heyer to handle tuck, is kind of dumb, so when they just did nothing other than expecting Heyer to handle tuck, thats just stupid....for the sake of stupidity...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM
------------------------------------------
Hey, I am not defending the play calling, but I'm saying they have been, as you put it, galactically stupid in not signing another blocking tightend/fullback since Cooley went down. They got away with it for awhile, but eventually somebody does the math and says, "you can't block all of my guys if I bring them". Zorn refuses to use an extra offensive lineman, so we get sack after sack and the offensive line gets crucified on the blog for giving up sacks, when it has a lot to do with the peripheral blockers and play calling.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

They have zero respect for this guy, they only want him to stay is b/c he doesnt enforce any discipline.

--------------------------------------
mhartz1 is that what they said or are you saying this?

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I can make a lot of assumptions about Zorn. In fact, they're not assumptions, they are observations based on fact.

Like the fact that his team got blown out last night. Like the fact that they had no answer for the Giants D last night. None. Don't give me the BS about NYG defense being so awesome. Look at their record in the previous 2 months. It wasn't just the Redskins getting beat physically, it was they had no counter to the Giants' scheme. None.

Some more facts. Like the fact that they're 4-10. Like the fact they finished 2-6 last year. Like the fact that Denver is the only team they beat this year who has a winning record.

Yes they have talent problems. But this blowout happened between the ears, not between the sidelines.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 22, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

... they are bringing a knife to a gunfight with this roster, ...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 12:15 PM

Yeah, kind of like the opposite of bringing a gun to a snowball fight.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Wow...

HEyer has an injury...

Zorn: Just u benched him!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Wow...

HEyer has an injury...

Zorn: Just say u benched him!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: IT was surprinsing/not expected. everyone was shell shocked.

They were better than us. They were metodical.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Zorn conference...

"uh, uh, uh, uh, I think D. hall came out of the game for something, uh, uh, uh, we were shell shocked after this surprising loss..."

Somebody put this guy out of his misery.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

dcp, agreed, they showed a replay of one of the sacks of jc, and to his left was moss, and then either ARE/Kelly, and NY was OBVIOUSLY bringing the house....not one hot route...no one broke their route off, everyone just ran their regular routes, and looked back to see JC getting debacled...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

If you look at the choices that Snyder has made for HC, his first three had achieved considerable success before taking the Skinz job and did not achieve success as Skinz HC, at least not the kind of success they had previously known. Then Snyder went way off the grid and found Zornopotomus, who was a lock to fail even though he had never succeeded. Now Snyder seems to be going back to the old formula of selecting a HC who has had considerable previous success and will underachieve with the Skinz. It's in the dud's DNA. Either he takes foolish risks or he takes no risks at all.

Posted by: TLoad | December 22, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

rsh, shotgun on passing downs, roll jc out of the pocket, have the RB actually CHIP the DE on their way out of the pocket, 6 ol, I don't know, pick one......but again, to do what they did, and expect it to work, just becuase you 'called it to work' is galactically stupid....

expecting Heyer to handle tuck, is kind of dumb, so when they just did nothing other than expecting Heyer to handle tuck, thats just stupid....for the sake of stupidity...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, to whoever said you can't judge Zorn that's moronic. The guy has had two seasons and the team just spirals worse and worse. That fake FG, the most idiotic thing I've seen in watching 30 years of professional football. The game planning was horrendous which Zorn still does supposedly. Just what Bean said, where was the shotgun, bootleg, roll the pocket, and why wasn't the team blitzing an oline starting a rookie and two backups instead of sitting back in zone coverage against a good qb and a good receiving corps? Beyond that, why was a gimpy Heyer locked up all night one on one against Tuck?

Yes, Campbell doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough or make accurate throws proven by his picks and Collins' brief series coming in off a cold bench. Yes, the oline is under manned. But the scheming on both sides of the ball was moronic at best. Certainly you can argue the roster is talent deficient, but so is the coaching and that judgment is easy to come to, I'm sure Allen noticed both.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

This guys has no idea, what is going on, nor does he care.

Why cant you hear the damn sports reporters questions??

"Staff is pretty together, really we are..."

That is why Blache and Gray interviewed for your job, super tight knit group, haha.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on asst coahes interviewing for his job:

I don't try to be an investigative reporter.

(maybe he should. he may better at it than Head coaching)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Gosh, I thought the Skins had a chance against Dallas but now that Suisham will give away all of the trick special teams plays they don't have much of a chance.

If my sarcasm was any heavier the Hadron collider couldn't penetrate it.

Hey, Hadron collider reference. That has to be a first here.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 22, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

can there be a least a rumor of someone getting fired, anything

Posted by: connskins | December 22, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

will be a cap/won't be is still up in the air. So you need a talented GM to navigate that....

I mean can I get a "Duh"

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

And since when has navigating the salary cap been an issue for the skins? That's about the only strength they've had in the last decade, cramming huge contracts into the cap. Now, if he changes the underlying culture of overpaying for crap free-agents, that's one thing. But I don't see any value added in terms of salary cap navigation, especially with the uncapped year coming.

Posted by: Daspig | December 22, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on the 2nd QTR Special teams blunder:

to stupid for me to write...I give up! NO MORE TRANSCRIBING! ZORN IS AN IDIOIT!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I unfortunately attended the game.

It was much worse than it appeared on TV.

For all those that say Levi and BMW are keepers on the OL, You're stupid.

For those idiots who said we should keep Zorn or any coach on this staff. You wouldn't know football if I hit you in the face with one.

I posted this last night and would like to apologize to the stupid/idiot population of the world because it's unfair to them.

Listening to Zorn's presser...

Moss spin during 2 min drill: "He got caught up in the big play moment, I don't think we lost any time because of it."

Fake FG: "Hunter got overwhelmed". 1 guy to block 3. Put this one on his resume...we can't block 1 guy with 3, let alone vice versa. He said it “worked like a dream in practice”.

Calling Plays: Zorn stated that there wasn't a whole lot of differences between the last couple weeks...B.S. This game wrecked of Zorn's meddling. I'd guess it was more 50/50 this week.

Oh and F Brandon Jacobs, he’s a liar and a wuss.


Posted by: Diesel44 | December 22, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

campbell's qb rating 57.4 - sanchez' 49.7 = cutler's 7.7

cutler's was 7.9

just when the O line started to look serviceable, they looked HORRIBLE. Bruce Allen has got to be thinking O LINE or Free Safety.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | December 22, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't think you know what Bruce Campbell actually does.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 11:35 AM es.

I know I have no idea what that guy does either.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I heard Doug Williams, along with Shannana, His son Junior Shannana, Kubiac, and two other names I can remeber are coming to run the team...

That's way too many sargents and a few little soldiers....

Allen GM
Shannana will be Coach and Chief Operations
Williams Player Personnel
Son Shannana Assitant to the Coach
Kubiac QB Coach
the other guy Asisitant to the Coach Scout
the other guy Assitant to the GM and scout

I will be waiting patiently for all this to implode who is going to answer to whom and Snyder FINAL say in all decision made by each individual person in charge..

Do you really think Snyder will give up some of his POWER - chock hold he has on this organization if you will...what do you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

SKINS SUXXXX!

Posted by: rlomax67 | December 23, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Which reminds me...was it really necessary for espn to show "Theeesman's Leg" in the pregame show...
Posted by: 4-12 | December 22, 2009 11:44 AM

I've seen it enough that I've learned to habitually close my eyes at just the right time.

Posted by: bentoenail | December 23, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

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