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Redskins by Position: The Cornerbacks

The secondary was the strength of the team. It was very consistent, exemplary really, when you think about the tepid pass rush and lack of support it received. With the signing of DeAngelo Hall in midseason, there was an abundance of riches here, but many within the organization are bracing for changes.

The assumption by many, including Shawn Springs himself, was that this would probably be his final season in Washington. For a long time I was thinking the same thing, but now, like many close to Springs, I no longer think it's a certainty. Based on conversations with people inside Redskins Park, I have the feeling that, come the first day of training camp, Springs and DeAngelo Hall will be the starting corners, and Carlos Rogers will be elsewhere.

Yes, the Redskins could save $6 million in cap space by jettisoning Springs, an older corner who has been injury prone, but he has been stellar when healthy. If the Redskins cut Jason Taylor, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, James Thrash and a few others, they would have about $13 million in cap space, which is more than enough to land two top-notch free agents.

The coaches are very high on Springs and believe they have a different defense when he's healthy. And if the Skins aren't in dire need of extra cap room, why should it be a given that he is gone?

He can play corner on either side. He is also the only person on the roster who has really played slot corner and excelled in that tricky spot. He also can morph into a free safety very easily, and has the coaches' confidence -- a valuable commodity -- to do so. And, if the Skins are in more of a cap bind than projections indicate, they could guarantee Springs's salary, convert it to a bonus, add a few years to the contract and slash the cap figure. In fact, It would not be at all surprising if that subject is raised with him.

It seemed obvious to many inside Redskins Park that the team was starting Hall and Springs together in the final few games with the intent of seeing how they interacted, how interchangeable they were, how they communicated. If it wasn't an audition of sorts, well, it certainly seemed like one.

As for Hall, the Redskins have been seeking more turnovers for quite some time, and this guy makes plays. He has some problems in deep coverage, but adds an element the Redskins want, and that Rogers has not provided.

Speaking to some agents and football people, I'll take an educated guess and say Hall ends up re-signing here for something in the six-year, $48-million range, with $12 million or so guaranteed. And if that happens, it makes the departure of Rogers even more certain.

Rogers is not long for Washington, as his statements the other day made clear, and he did not take kindly to being demoted to the third corner. If the Skins are set on keeping him, they had a strange way of showing it, demoting him to third corner and using him sparingly in the second half.

This seems pretty mutual. A parting would allow the Skins to recover a draft pick - they need to rebuild at several positions but have just four selections in April - and would give Rogers the opportunity to get the financial security he is seeking. (He is getting hurt by the lack of a new CBA, and faces being a restricted free agent, rather than unrestricted, when his rookie contract expires after the 2009 season).

Signing both Rogers and Hall to long-term deals was always going to be tricky, and unlikely given the overall strength of the secondary, and all the other holes that need to be filled. It was apparent the moment Hall was acquired that Rogers would be the player most affected. Few in the organization figured the combo of Hall and Rogers would work since both are brash, young corners seeking new deals. Hall's ascent coincided with Rogers's descent, and Rogers has made it clear that he's not interested in backing up Hall.

All of that makes having an established corner like Springs to mentor the youngsters and be versatile enough to play different positions is even more important. If Rogers goes, fourth-round pick Justin Tryon, who is small and may never project to playing regularly, can become more of a fourth corner, with the Redskins also looking at low-tiered free agents to serve as a third corner/insurance policy (a Walt Harris or David Macklin type).

It would not be stunning news if the Redskins were to part with Fred Smoot. He struggled this season and was picked on late in the season when he did get on the field. He could still be serviceable as a third corner, but there may be players available for around the veteran minimum who could work, too.

Cutting Smoot a year from now would result in more substantial savings (with his salary jumping to $3.9 million in 2010, I would be shocked if he's still here then). He'll make $2.65 million in '09, with a $4 million cap figure.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 31, 2008; 8:15 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Cerrato Looks Ahead

Comments

"Yes, the Redskins could save $6 million in cap space by jettisoning Springs, an older corner who has been injury prone, but he has been stellar when healthy."

When is he healthy???

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | December 31, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

"Based on conversations with people inside Redskins Park"

Not sure I really buy into that this actually happened, but whatever.

Also, not sure that Rogers is going anywhere, he played lousy the last half of the year, so he's only himself to blame for not getting the start.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

And what kind of a pick would they get for Rogers? Low FIRST? High SECOND?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse

No! Not a third.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse

I realize most people feel showing Rogers the door is a mistake, but at least we'd be getting something in return this go around (1-2 draft picks)...which is an imporvement from the psat when we allowed other caliber players to walk (Clark, Pierce, etc) w/o any compensation.

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

"Based on conversations with people inside Redskins Park"

Not sure I really buy into that this actually happened, but whatever.


Greg--Does talking to other reporters at Redskins Park count as "people inside Redskins Park"? Maybe some of the reporters had spoken with people who are employed by the Redskins. Sure, it's now third-hand but it's still grist for off-season Redskins Insider.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

"demoting him to third corner and using him sparingly in the second half"

I have a problem with this statement. No one demoted Rogers, but Rogers. He played well this year, for about 10-12 games, but as has always been the case, he can't hold onto the ball when it hits him in the hands. He also STILL, STILL doesn't defend well against the dreaded 'double move'......


Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I think Rogers could get us a low second round pick or 3rd round pick... hopefully it's not a conditional 2010 pick based on the number of INTs he gets...

I was checking out this site:
http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

and it shows that Rogers isn't a FA until 2011... if that's true, I think we'd cut Springs and keep Rogers and Hall as a young secondary tandem.

Posted by: nagoose | December 31, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

This is just stupid.

SPRINGS IS 34!!!!! AND WILL COST US 6 MILLION NEXT YEAR WHEN HELL PROBABLY ONLY PLAY 7 GAMES!!!!!!

MAKE ROGERS AND HALL OUR CORNERS FOR THE NEXT 6 YEARS!!!!!!

Jeez Louise. What happens if we keep Springs and trade Rogers... then in a year or two, Springs, Rogers, and Smoot are all gone, and our secondary is awful again.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 31, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

I like Springs but it seems as if he is always injured. 12 years and many battles have turned him from a work horse to a show pony. We need sombody that can suit up and play on game day.

Posted by: Masonman | December 31, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

I realize most people feel showing Rogers the door is a mistake, but at least we'd be getting something in return this go around (1-2 draft picks)...which is an imporvement from the psat when we allowed other caliber players to walk (Clark, Pierce, etc) w/o any compensation.

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:37 AM |

No, this is more like when we traded Champ Bailey and what we got was not as good as what we gave up. We can't rely on Springs to be a starting corner next year. We can rely on Rogers.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

I would also be surprised if Hall signs for anything less than $20M guaranteed.

Posted by: nagoose | December 31, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Giving Sean Springs a new deal is foolish. He is a Ferrari. Shuts down Terrel Owens one week, sits for the next four weeks with a sore pinkie toe. His hands aint the greatest either if we are comparing to "Los" Rogers. For all the talk of his ability to play safety he was not a game changer at that position.

Also he quit on the final series of the San Fran game, which highlights his questionable work ethic. He has to work out away from the team in Arizona, he has to do this and that, boxing routine, best shape of his life and he sits for more than half the games with a sore calf...BOOM..outta here.

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 31, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

bottom line is this defense is desperate for turnover's...Hall has a knack for INT's while Roger's only black mark is his inability to hold onto the ball ('05 playoff game, '08 steelers game, etc.)

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

te, lol, could be...could be...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

i'd be stunned if we could get more than 3rd rounded for rogers

Posted by: mopp04 | December 31, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I'd be stunned if they traded rogers...really....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

talent,

w all due respect to 22 but he is nowhere near the company of champ bailey. bailey is a premier shutdown corner who also pulls down a healthy amount of pickles.

rogers is an above average coverage guy who tackles well, but as greg mentioned gets burned on "double move" and can't catch the ball...

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

talent...my bad, mis-read your post...

I agree w you if we only get one draft pick out of trade, but if we could get 2 picks for 22 I'd have to disagree on value of trade vs bailey trade

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

So they're thinking about giving Sprung an EXTENSION?!

Man, I certainly hope not. Dude is always injured. What is going to happen when he goes down in the first game and we're left with Hall and ?

Posted by: HenryHog | December 31, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

You're talking about trading a kid who's just about to enter his prime and has had his best year so far, and keeping an over the hill veteran who never sees the field. There might be a reason that they don't have faith Los will improve, but I definitely don't see why Springs is worth keeping.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | December 31, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

any guess on when "shocking" as JC put it personnel changes go down....after senior bowl?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

And everyone needs to realize that our DB's played extremely well this year, even with some drops...there was no pressure or tipped balls from the defensive line. The group works as a whole, and the secondary carried everyone on their back. I can forgive a few drops when they do that.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | December 31, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Laurenitis is worth a 1st round pick..

..but watch Percy Harvin in the national championship game and if he 'lights up' the Sooners like I think he will, it would be hard for me to not pick the guy...


Harvin is a field-flipper. A Reggie Bush/Westbrook/Slaton/Santana Moss/Sproles/Josh Cribbs kinda guy who'd make Antawn "Fair Catch" Randle El expendable on day one. I'd love to see him in DC...

but with no picks, needs on the o-line, and having overdrafted at the position last year, he gets overlooked by Skins' fans

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 31, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

This is just stupid.

SPRINGS IS 34!!!!! AND WILL COST US 6 MILLION NEXT YEAR WHEN HELL PROBABLY ONLY PLAY 7 GAMES!!!!!!

MAKE ROGERS AND HALL OUR CORNERS FOR THE NEXT 6 YEARS!!!!!!

Jeez Louise. What happens if we keep Springs and trade Rogers... then in a year or two, Springs, Rogers, and Smoot are all gone, and our secondary is awful again.

Couldnt agree more!!!! Fix the lines, leave the secondary alone if you have to, it certainly should be on the bottom of the list!!!

Posted by: jefferboy | December 31, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

lets pull the reins back a little bit on this "trade Rogers" stuff....at least until, oh I don't know, someone else reports it, or we have something more substantial to go on.....

Seems like just a rumor and not much more to me....he's still playing on his rookie deal, and he's under contract for another year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Great idea! While we're at it, lets cut/trade a London Fletcher so we can keep a Marcus Washington.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 31, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

any guess on when "shocking" as JC put it personnel changes go down....after senior bowl?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:53 AM

If Jasno's right, first order of business is to sign Hall. Hall may want to wait until free agency thinking that his work here would get him a better contract with a new team. With Hall signed, if Jasno's right, then Carlos becomes expendable but that might not happen until right before the draft.

A few other cuts will happen between now and the start of free agency. Need to free up the cap space before we can sign free agents. If Jasno's wrong, then Springs would be cut before the start of free agency.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

mista,

I agree we def need that HR game changer threat, but if we don't upgrade our O-line first he won't be able to make those kind of plays. we'll need to find a sleeper similar to his speed late in the draft...c'mon morocco brown

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

The problem with some "fans" is that they get emotionally attached to players as soon as their name comes up for a trade or release(see Leigh Torrence)

Have you all been watching the games the last four years? Rogers is solid but not the game changer Hall is. All corners get burned, but Rogers has dropped CRITICAL interceptions and consistently. What has Rogers done to earn a long term deal?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 31, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

he's still playing on his rookie deal, and he's under contract for another year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:56 AM

But, this is precisely why he would have so much value in a trade, although --like you -- I still think he has more value to the Redskins than what they could trade him for. Draft picks are lottery tickets and this guy has proven he can do the job.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Mista,

I'm a skins fan who now lives in Tampa and who's wife is a Gator. Every Floriduh game is on this house and though Harvin is an all world talent, he'll NEVER stay healthy enough to make a consistent impact. This kid was injured in high school and can't even stay on the practice field, much less for game day.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Laurenitis is worth a 1st round pick..

MistaMoe

I'm not sold on Laurenitis. I'm concerned about his speed. It seems that in these bowl games Ohio State defense never shows up, and IMO it looks like he chaseing the play. He's a good player but I don't think worth the 13th pick.

Posted by: TWISI | December 31, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

free-agency vote...

who should skins target?

peppers or haynesworth

...my vote goes to Peppers

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

What has Rogers done to earn a long term deal?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 31, 2008 9:02 AM

Dude played lights out the first half of the year, coming off an injury when no one expected anything from him. He's shown he can start and can start over the long haul. Relying on Springs to start is like relying on Jason Taylor.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Good morning and happy new year, peeps! Only thing on tap today (other than the bubbly at midnight) is a Vinny Cerrato presser.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Rogers played practically the whole season; if Springs wants to 'mentor' young players, then coach. This mystical demotion of Rogers after he was playing so well, allegedly, all season smells like a Snyerrato (Snyder-Cerrato) move. What the 'Skins do with Rogers will say a lot about their 'change' for the future. If Denver can drop-kick to the curb a Super Bowl winning coach because of their commitment to sustained growth and success than surely we can part with a 32-34 year old corner who rarely played all year and trust two head strong, young guys to be our corners for the next 4-5 years. This is a no-brainer: cut Smoot (should never have left here in the first place), move Springs to weak safety (like Ronnie Lott), and this time KEEP 2 quality corners.

I"m 'this close' to changing my allegiance from Burgundy and Gold to Purple and Black (Ravens); a quality organization from top to bottom, not like the misfits running the show in Redskins Park. In fact, any team that honors 'Redskin football' as we knew it (Ravens, Panthers specifically) is a team for which I can root. 'Redskins football' as we knew it started was Jack Kent Cooke-Bobby Bethard/Charlie Casserly-Joe Gibbs; it's obvious what part of that equation's been missing here for way too long.

Posted by: pdfordiii | December 31, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

peppers or haynesworth?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 9:04 AM

My vote goes to neither. I say we need quantity in free agency, not another "big plash."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Seems like just a rumor and not much more to me....he's still playing on his rookie deal, and he's under contract for another year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Greg,
is this your first off season on the blog? Thats what the next few months are.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Good morning and happy new year, peeps! Only thing on tap today (other than the bubbly at midnight) is a Vinny Cerrato presser.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 9:06 AM

That's it? That's how 2008 ends? Not with a roar but a whimper?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

I"m 'this close' to changing my allegiance from Burgundy and Gold to Purple and Black (Ravens);

Go....go now....enjoy the Ravens....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins getting rid of Rogers is the same as when we got rid of Antonio Pierce. Anyone who even thinks this is remotely good needs to get their heads checked. Before he got demoted, Rogers was having a pro bowl year. Springs stays hurt, Tryon only can try. Why take a strength and turn it into an average?

Posted by: noluvdr | December 31, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Peppers is worth the money. He's got 4+ really solid years left. We need him for sure.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Cindy,
Can you guys try and confirm that Vinny Cerrato is in fact half lizard.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

When Ray Lewis breaks down again next year, the Ravens will be 5-11. Harbaugh won't be seen as a genius then...

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

LOL @ T_E

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

"The Redskins getting rid of Rogers is the same as when we got rid of Antonio Pierce"

Categorically different.

Pierce was a free agent, whom the redskins offered a very good deal to, only to have Pierce take that deal and get himself 500k more from the Giants.

Rogers is still a Redskin. And is under contract for Next year as well.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

CUT SPRUNG, sign Hall, entice Rogers to play like it is a contract year (it is). Keep Smooty Smacks healthy.

Posted by: HenryHog | December 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Great idea! While we're at it, lets cut/trade a London Fletcher so we can keep a Marcus Washington.

While I agree that Springs is old and unproductive, your analogy is awful. Rogers isn't to corner what Fletcher is to Linebacker. London is the heart of the defense, Rogers is the other teams whipping boy

Posted by: fullonfully | December 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Peppers is worth the money. He's got 4+ really solid years left. We need him for sure.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:10 AM

Wow, he sounds as good as Sean Gilbert. Or Big Daddy. Let's go for broke again!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

" 'The Redskins getting rid of Rogers is the same as when we got rid of Antonio Pierce'

Categorically different."

Point taken, but letting him go for unproven commodities is not a good idea.

Posted by: noluvdr | December 31, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Neither one of the guys rushed the passer or had the immense talent Peppers possesses. If/when we sign him and he puts up 10-12 sacks a year, everyone will sing his praises.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Happy Birthday Soup.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 31, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

A much better pass rush will help everyone back there, but at the same time you gotta do your job and cover. either you have it or you don't, and Rogers just doesn't with any regularity. I don't think he is worth a long term deal. let him go to detroit with coach gray

Posted by: fullonfully | December 31, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

There is no arguing that the defense plays much better overall with Springs in the game, but he is not going to play 16 games. I think we need all three guys. Rogers has finally developed and you know if he leaves he is destined for the Pro Bowl.

Posted by: vze2bnyf | December 31, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

"but letting him go for unproven commodities is not a good idea"

Who have the Redskins let go?? Who?? They made a trade?? When did this happen??

Or is this all just poppycock......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I would rather not get any big name free agent, its the mentality of we are only 1 good player away, we have been doing that enough lately.

Posted by: SAK2 | December 31, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Its unlikely we'd get another better than a 3rd for Rogers. Look at Philly trying to trade Lito Sheppard last year. Nobody was willing to step up and pay the price Philly was asking. Lito and Carlos are similar skill set corners in the same situation.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Throw Smoot to Detroit, for a 6th round pick or something they will take anyone right now I think.

Anything less than a late 1st for Los is a net loss.

Happy Birthday 17

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

If/when we sign him and he puts up 10-12 sacks a year, everyone will sing his praises.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:17 AM

I think you're missing one "if/when" as in "if/when he puts up 10-12 sacks a year." Of course we would sing his praises -- if/when he does that.

Look, maybe he would/could. For my part, I'm tired of the all-your-eggs-in-one-basket / "big plash" approach to free agency.

I liked it last year when they didn't bring anyone in for a visit until the second or third week and didn't hand out big money to anyone. This year, with fewer draft picks, we need to sign a few free agents, but I'm opposed to paying the money that would be commanded by any of the "top 50." I don't think these "if/when" guys are worth the risk.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm not saying we're one player away, but pass rush is an area that needs to be addressed and the draft is not an immediate way to do that. Peppers is one small answer to a litany of questions. If we trade back once or twice to acquire more picks (hopefully for o-line and LB's) and add a couple of smart FA signings, this team is a contender.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

te, 1000 percent agreed....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

sak,

we're not 1 player away...but without any pass rush whatsoever and draft should focus on OL...getting a beast DE would be huge and help out secondary

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

al, mort is reporting that cowher is telling them he's not coming back this year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Rich20ssu

I know Harvin's hurt a lot, but hey, so are most of the speed guys on the list (Bush/Westbrook especially).

The idea comes as the Skins have an offense that doesn't present match up problems. Having another speed guy opposite Moss does that, especially if Fred Davis (more speed)plays--a defense is suddenly presented with the problem of defending three guys who can all 'catch and run'.

There's another speed kid like Harvin from Oklahoma State, but he'll be found in the 3rd round where the Skins hope to find a lineman.

What I'm saying is that to open up the offense means bringing in players who give the Skins more 'tools' to get the ball to.

Right now, the Skins need to go to o

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 31, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

This post just proves that Greg/Flouder/ and whoever else called me crazy last week and said I know nothing about football just the oppositte.

And Greg, for you not to see reality is wild. You can't keep both because of chemistry.

Also, I said last week that you could extend Springs and JT55 and prorate their bonuses over a the phony years to reduce the cap hit next year.

Who's crazy now?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Just re-hashing what everyone else has been saying, but here it is in my own words:

So the real questions won't really start up until they sign Hall.....if they sign Hall. Seems to me the guy made the most of his short stint here and will be asking for alot more than 48 mil over 6 years. If they gave Randle el and other guys a 10 mil signing bonus, this guy is gonna want more than that. So if they do sign him, and HAVE to choose between Springs and Rogers, I am the keep Rogers camp. I've been saying all year that Springs' heart hasn't been in it at all this season since he almost retired last offseason. I really thought he would be retiring, but I guess I was wrong. All about the money I supppose; let's see if he's actually willing to re-negotiate because he has shown no signs of that willingness thus far. But this is the first time one could argue that hey don't need him anymore (if they sign Hall). That being said, I say keep Rogers in 09 (he is still under contract), as Springs whether he's here or not, is apparently only good for half of the games. Smoot+Tryon does not spell quality depth to me to fill in as 2nd and 3rd corners. I don't know what happened to Smoot this year. His game really seemed to drop off towards the end. I didn't really notice any drop off in Rogers' play except that he wasn't on the field as much. We were all seeing pro bowl for the guy for the first 11 weeks......

I guess what I am really trying to say is that I don't see the need to do anything with Rogers whether they sign Hall or not.....he's under contract, so if he lights it up next year, give him an extension before season's end. The only argument for doing something before then would be his trade value.....I doubt our FO could actually make a move there that would end up being of any benefit even if they got good value in the way of picks, but maybe a straight up trade for a stud lineman.....who knows?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 31, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Everyone is saying this draft is thick with O-line prospects. That has to be the skins' draft day focus.

Chris Long was the "real deal" out of Virginia last year and he had only a few sacks for 25 million guaranteed. Maybe he gets 10 next year, but he hasn't shown too much. Ryan Clady with Denver was a stud taken 10 picks behind him.

Pass rushers take a few years to season. Get Peppers and one or two more pieces and draft O-line.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Great idea!

Let's keep the oldest guy in our secondary who already rarely saw the field due to injuries and hasn't shown much heart (laughing on the sidelines during our first week loss to a divisional rival late in the game) AND will cost us a lot of money.

And let's re-sign the guy who was getting paid crap and had every reason in the world to keep his known attitude problems in check and play over his head to get a big payday. Cause if someone plays well in a contract year for what, 5 games, they will definitely play that well for 5 years. And he only has a history of attitude problems at two teams, so what's to worry about there?


And let's get rid of the guy who has no attitude problems and has consistently gotten better and is one year older than person #2 and much younger than person #1. We have already seen what he can give us, and that's only a very good #2, solid #1, great #3 corner if need be. And we have seen him play well in non-contract years, and lord knows we don't want to see this guy on our team when he hits his prime.

And that 4th or 5th rounder we get for him will be HUGE in our rebuilding process.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

if the Skins are in more of a cap bind than projections indicate, they could guarantee Springs's salary, convert it to a bonus, add a few years to the contract and slash the cap figure.

This would be a stupid move and the type of move JLC would bash the team about.(of course he wouldn't say he thought it was a good move at the time because he never admits he is wrong) We got to stop giving old players who can't stay on the field more money.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 31, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

But my point is, wait till we have a team that is borderline making a run at the playoffs, before we go and spend big bucks on a big name. I would really not like to see haynesworth in a skins jersey. When he face stomped that one guy I lost all respect for him, just not worth the big money. Peppers I wouldnt mind but would still like to wait another year be fore signing a big name like that.

Posted by: SAK2 | December 31, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Wait 4th, you disdain the media now you are using JLC's post to validate your own opinion?

But fill me in how does this make you right (not a challenge I just don't remember)

And 4th for the record I think you know football, just like the rest of us know football. Enough to have own wacky opinions/ideas/agendas/feelings....its called the FUN of sports!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Nobody trades big for small. Except the bullets/wizards.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

A great pass rush does not start with ends but starts with 2 big guys that grab a double team every down in the between the ends.

You do not get pressure from a End if the other guys can put a TE T or T/G double on them. Get me two big DT's that force both the guards and center to block them both every down over a new DE any day.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

da, no idea what you're talking about, but yeah, you're probably crazy, so go root for the lions or the ravens.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Also, Shawn Springs is playing to good when healthy. No way Vinny will let him go so he can go to the cowboys and beast out against us next year.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

What ever happened to the idea of putting Springs in at safety?

Let's keep Rodgers, Hall and Smoot as our corners and then landry, horton, and springs at safety so we would would actually have REAL depth!?! Every single one of those guys with the exception of hall has been injured at some time this season and we've suffered. We have the best insurance policy by moving springs to safety and letting rodgers be a starting corner.

Do we really want to see a repeat of another leigh torrence-type backup getting burned for the deep ball once we have injuries again?

Posted by: skiplaxin | December 31, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Truth, gotta say good take n the CBS..

JM220 there is a sizable difference of JLC saying this is a move they could do, and endorsing it. Outlining possible scenarios based on past actions is called good reporting.......

Signing either Haynesworth or Peppers for the $$$$$$$$ they will get is Tardville...Haynesworth resigns with Tenn...you heard it here first..

And speaking of hearing it here first....I man up when I am/was wrong...so TE nice Karnac (google people) on the Shanahan tip....i publicly said it would never happen, you called it...good work sir.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

A great pass rush does not start with ends but starts with 2 big guys that grab a double team every down in the between the ends.

You do not get pressure from a End if the other guys can put a TE T or T/G double on them. Get me two big DT's that force both the guards and center to block them both every down over a new DE any day.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:35 AM

So how does Harrison and Ware getting 30 sacks plus support that statement? In a 3-4, there's only one big guy on the nose and two DE's who are 280 or so which frees up the OLB's after the QB. Haynesworth takes plays off too much and might not give an effort once 30 million gets deposited into his savings account. Peppers Peppers Peppers Peppers Peppers!!!

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe people can say they'll start rooting for the Ravens or disown the Redskin...as a life-long and diehard fan I will always support the burgandy and gold through the good and bad as a true fan should.

hip hip hooray in 2009...hail!

In due time this team will be an annual contender and the Bandwagon will be rolling through town.

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan is a hot commodity right now for sure. If my name was Vinny I would give it a quick look for OC, he fits the mold of a Westerner with a good rep.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I shoot from the hip. Cl - ow can I NOT agree with JLaC when he basically agrees with my idea?

I said keep Springs and JT55 and Trade Carlos for no less than a high 2nd rounder........

On top of that, I said extend them with some phony years to reduce their cap # (Sorry JM220, we disagree on that one)...

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I'm joining in the lunacy...seems fun!!

WHY, OH WHY DID THE REDSKINS TRADE ROGERS, AND FOR ONLY A 7TH ROUND PICK IN THE 2020 DRAFT????? WHAT WAS THE POINT??????????? THE LIONS ARE 1-BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN TEH REDSKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(its actually kind of fun in a not-using your brain kind of way)....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

One more question: What is the prospect of Hall becoming the punt returner? God knows we need a new one.

Posted by: kjhealey | December 31, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Also, JLa sounds like he gets his info from Springs' Agent which means someone in the redskins camp (vinny) has already discussed it.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe people can say they'll start rooting for the Ravens or disown "the Redskin...as a life-long and diehard fan I will always support the burgandy and gold through the good and bad as a true fan should."

As despondent as I with this team, and my disgust as rarely been lower, I gotta say this sums up my feelings even if it pisses me off. I am genetically predispositioned to have an unhealthy relationship with the Skins...


In due time this team will be an annual contender and the Bandwagon will be rolling through town.

Butt the above statement is simply non true

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Leave it to the Redskins to mess with something that doesn't need messin' with.

We have 2 good corners and solid backups.Why would you change that up?

I agree that we need to trim the fat, so to speak, off the roster but couldn't we do that at some of our weaker positions.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"Get me two big DT's that force both the guards and center to block them both every down over a new DE any day"

It works both ways al. Look at the giants, they have fred robbins, and player x at dt, but they're effective because of Kiwi/Tuck on the edges.

Look at Tenn. They have AHaynesworth at DT, which has revived Kearses career, he's actually effective now.


Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

So how does Harrison and Ware getting 30 sacks plus support that statement? In a 3-4, there's only one big guy on the nose and two DE's who are 280 or so which frees up the OLB's after the QB. Haynesworth takes plays off too much and might not give an effort once 30 million gets deposited into his savings account. Peppers Peppers Peppers Peppers Peppers!!!

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Thats a 3-4 totally different jobs for the players. The NT has that same job of grab the double team but then you have 1-2 LB's blitzing in either pulling another block allowing a DE a better chance to get free or going to the QB free themselves.

Its not like you rush 3 much in a 3-4 unless you are a dummy.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Greg, you need to have more than just 1-2 guys clearly, but I am proposing that if we got 2 legit DT's and kept our ends we would do more than if we focus on ends.

If we go grab Peppers or whoever to replace JT he will not do much with out a better DT who can help him out.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Ppl still talking about the Champ Bailey trade???
Well, we got a future Hall of Famer for Champ so I like the deal. Anyway...
Keeping Springs around at his oresent salary is a mistake. There won't be any suitors because of his injury history. Lowball him if you have to and pay him much LESS than the market rate for a top corner. If he retires, so what. You're only losing 7 games because he's gonna miss 9 next year anyway with his annual leg injury.

Posted by: original_mark | December 31, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Beantown...the Giants are strong and deep at all for DL positions. Fred Robbins might be the best DL they have....

The Giants help make Alex's point not argue against....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

The Good : Vinny says he's going to start looking at roster turnover and has an idea to get more draft picks.

The Bad : That idea is to trade a young, talented player from the strongest position on our team.

The Ugly : At the end of the day, Redskins fans are still stuck with Vinny Cerrato as the GM.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

only way I could justify the trade of Los would be if we grab that guy with the funny name from Oakland (who liked playing with Hall).

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"The Ugly : At the end of the day, Redskins fans are still stuck with Vinny Cerrato as the GM."

So true so true, excuse me while I slash my wrists....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

And speaking of hearing it here first....I man up when I am/was wrong...so TE nice Karnac (google people) on the Shanahan tip....i publicly said it would never happen, you called it...good work sir.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:39 AM

Ah, shucks, Mr. Larry, it was just luck. Even a blonde squirrel gets laid once in a while.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

This blog post stinks of RI trying to pad numbers or the Redskins truly are one of the stupidest franchises in the league. Trade a young CB who should continue to improve for maybe a 3rd rounder and keep a dude who steals paychecks on a weekly basis. If they like Springs so much get him to retire and take over Jerry Gray's job. Or he can be a player/coach like they used to have back in the day. 3 games as a player and 13 as a coach since he can't play through a papercut.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | December 31, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I think If we keep Goldy and Monty as change up relaver types and draft/FA two big high motor DT's we could have something on the line finally. Griff is probably gone.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Fred Robbins might be the best DL they have....

cl, really?? Justin Tuck....Osi...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Alex, just type "N" and then bang on the keyboard 1 or 2 times and you'll probably get it right.


but what would we have to do to get Nlgiafdf, Hall, AND Rogers? We could get rid of Springs and all the other weak links that won't cost us a cap hit...would that free up enough room?

And I'm just throwing this hypothetical out there, I'm pretty sure this would be impossible to do, but man, that would be a disgustingly good secondary.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Bean, I noticed you prefer sarcasim over direct disscussion.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

So true so true, excuse me while I slash my wrists....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 9:55 AM

Now you're going to slash your wrists? Sounds easier than your last plan. Couldn't you find that book, "How to Rip Out Your Entrails with a Swiss Army Knife for Dummies"?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

only way I could justify the trade of Los would be if we grab that guy with the funny name from Oakland (who liked playing with Hall).

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:53 AM

You mean Nnamdi Asomugha. And he is a stud CB.

I don't see us getting him, but blowing all of our cap space on a position thats not needed is definitely the Redskins MO.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Truth great breakdown and even better Movie reference.

Arguably the greatest western of all time. Though if your are gonna go with that series of films I would go with:

For a Few Dollars More, the Dan Snyder Story

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

da, lets discuss....what do you want to discuss??

I know, lets discuss the trade that didn't happen.

You go first.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"Shanahan is a hot commodity right now for sure. If my name was Vinny I would give it a quick look for OC, he fits the mold of a Westerner with a good rep.


Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 9:42 AM

HUH??? Not sure what you mean by this....Shanahan will have a head coaching job by next week - if not before.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

This blog post stinks of RI trying to pad numbers or the Redskins truly are one of the stupidest franchises in the league. Trade a young CB who should continue to improve for maybe a 3rd rounder and keep a dude who steals paychecks on a weekly basis. nce he can't play through a papercut.

.......................

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | December 31, 2008 9:56 AM

This is reality.

CR22 is performing upto par for a #9 Pick
JC17 is progressing. (CSN had Charley Casserly on with Doc and Wise. Casserly said he hit a wall and began to say why. It rang so true. I desparately want to give him one more year, but.....)

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

anything new on PFT...?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Yes that dude, who plays in the city that does not count for much, on a team that no one cares about, and has the name thats confusing so I can't remember.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Alex, the first spaghetti Western I ever watched was TGTBTU.

Then I watched the other Man With No Name movies and they just didn't even compare. I decided no other spaghetti Western can even touch the greatness of TGTBTU so I will probably never watch another one. Top 5 movie ever.

I actually roomed with a guy in college and his uncle or great uncle, I forget, was the actor who played The Bad.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

That's what I'm saying...

Isn't all we talk about none existing stuff anyway?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

JC17 is progressing. (CSN had Charley Casserly on with Doc and Wise. Casserly said he hit a wall and began to say why. It rang so true. I desparately want to give him one more year, but.....)

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:02 AM

Why did he hit the wall? I turned on CSN right at the end of the roundtable segment so I missed it.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

SI is reporting that Cowher didn't want to coach Favre....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

While I do not put a lot of credence in this post since no one INSIDE Redskins Park speaks to JLC, Campbell's comments about "shocking" personnel changes lead me to believe it may have legs. Campbell and Rogers are good friends who played together at Auburn.

However, watching Springs parting remarks to reporters the other day (on CSN), it appeared like he has played his last game in Washington (at least he thinks so).

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Keep DoubleMove and Hall. Smoot can get back to the Love Boat. They also nead to beast-up the interior D line. My dream scenario (other than getting to see the Skins in the SB in Miami) is to see the likes of F-Romo and Eli screaming at their O lines to do something about keeping our D from planting them neck deep in turf. Even better if it's fake turf.

A splendid, peaceful and rewarding New Year to Skins Nation and if you're looking for a decent team to root for in the playoffs, go with the Fins.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Maybe he hit a wall cause his starting left tackle was playing on one leg. He only had one true deep threat. The offense lacked imagination and variety. I think any young quarterback would "hit a wall" with that situation too.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Happy Next Year everybody!

Posted by: SMACK1 | December 31, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Yeah Greg he is. Robbins gobbles the middle, eats double teams, stuffs the run. You ever think why is it the Giants can line up 4/5 different guys at DE and they are productive? Ever wonder why Strahan was able to play late into his career? Ever wonder why the Giants stumbled late in the season when...cough cough...Fred Robbins was hurt?

Quit reading stat sheets all the time, the game is more than numbers.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

4th can you elaborate now that sounds intriguing.

Lisa, just saying a good GM would give it a look even if there is only a 10% chance. Mike fits what I think the Skins needed to help out Zorn.
Vet OC/HC who can handle play calling. Check
West Coast System. Check
Can make any RB great and knows the line matters. Check
A history with our team in terms of trades and he made Portis what he was there.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

4th please tell us more about why he hit a wall.


I think Hall over 'los is a mistake. Let's not forget that Carlos was supposed to have an off year based on his injury last year. Hall has been a remarkable citizen but who knows once he gets paid.

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I was watching some bowl game the other night, I think it was Missouri, and they had a FG kicker who set the career % mark on extra points with like 178 out of 178 for a 100% mark. Numbers might be different but he was 100% for his career.

Should we trade our #13 overall and our third rounder to Detroit so we can select him?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

How much was it worth in the draft to finish 8-8 instead of 9-7?

The 'Skins are picking 13th at 8-8. If they'd finished 9-7, they'd be picking 18th. If you look at the "draft value chart" ( http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670 ) the value of the 13th pick is 1150 points and the 18th pick is 900 points. The difference, 250 points, is the value of a high third-rounder -- specifically, fourth pick in the third round.

If you add up the point difference in all rounds, it totals 342 points -- the value of the 24th pick in the second round. Of course, we've already traded away some of those "points," particularly 50 points in the second round that Miami's getting for Jason Taylor. But even getting the equivalent of a high-third rounder should be consolation at some point for losing to San Francisco.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 7:41 AM

Look, I went to a lot of effort to work out these numbers and I don't think I got the praise I deserved when I posted this earlier. Pearls before swine.

Now that some of the more discerning regulars are here -- Truth, Alex, Beantown, CL, Lisa -- I think I should post this again.

And I'll just keep posting it for the rest of the year until everyone says "Wow, that is really something."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Why did he hit the wall? I turned on CSN right at the end of the roundtable segment so I missed it.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM

Saying his progressions to the 2nd/3rd/4th options in the passing game has not improved and is really non-existent (parapharasing). He stares down his receivers too long.

He also said he spoke to defensive coaches who played against the redskins and said JZ never changed his game plan. So, once they got tape on his offense it was pretty easy to stop...........

Pretty damning if you ask me. We'll see if he learned his lesson........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

"HUH??? Not sure what you mean by this....Shanahan will have a head coaching job by next week - if not before. "

So true, not a chance in hot Hades that Shanahan is an OC anywhere...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

SI is reporting that Cowher didn't want to coach Favre....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM

Cowher would be the only guy with enough clout to come in and say Brett, you're gone.
Unless Woody Johnson got a 'woody' for Brett. I doubt that would be a dealbreaker.

Anyone else think Woody Johnson is a joke name that ranks right up there with Mike Hunt?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

sorry TE, already knew that and posted that like the night we lost.


but wow, that is really something

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

SI is reporting that Cowher didn't want to coach Favre....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM

That can't be a deal-breaker. Favre? Easy come, easy go.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

and PS TE I'm not a regular

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Truth, dont get me wrong I love Buono, il brutto, il cattivo., Il, (the italian name kicks butt too) But to me the relationship between villain Indio and Col. Dogulas in Per qualche dollaro in più is one of classic awesomeness. And lets face it there have been remakes of Per un pugno di dollari that have never been near as strong.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

If there is a decision to trade Rogers, it would epitomize the ineptitude of this Front Office. It would be unspeakable how bad that move would be. Anything less than a top 10 first rounder would be an absolute shaft to this franchise. I'm in utter disbelief even at the idea of it.

While we're at it, might as well let Demetric Evans walk and extend Jason Taylor's contract, jettison Rocky Macintosh and HB Blades while keeping Marcus Washington on board, and trade away Golston and Montgomery in order to keep space for Griffin.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Mike Shanananana won't be coming to DC. For one thing Portis hates him. For another he wouldn't work under Vinny. 3rdly he doesn't let people win in racquetball.

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Peter King said on sirius NFL radio that no way Favre was the reason Cower turned down the job. Said he isn't coaching this year bottom line. He said he knows those reports, but his own reporting tells him the opposite...

Cowher likes his life and is the cat bird seat...he ain't jumping back into the pool until the water is exactly to his liking.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

cl, agree to disagree on the g-men...


te, Wow, that really is something you've posted there....you get my vote for Blogger MVP 2008. congrats...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of Asomugha, he is a FA, right? And cannot be franchised again. Since Hall played with him in Oakland, this has legs....

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 31, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I went to high school with a guy named Mike Hunt.


Talent - thanks for the chart, its fun to use on draft day.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

And I'll just keep posting it for the rest of the year until everyone says "Wow, that is really something."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Well TE it is valuable information to consider and always brings up the short term pride vs long term gain thing. Is it based on the old system of draft value or the "new one"

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Rogers ain't going anywhere.

"based on coversations with people inside Redskins Park."

Who even talks to this goof except cowards who won't go on record?

Football isn't national security, so anytime someone - a player, a team official, an assistant coach - is unwilling to state what they have to say for the record, it's best to take it with a big ole grain o' salt.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Just a quick drive-by...

I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and wish you all a happy new year.

See you in the playoffs next weekend!!

Oh, sorry about that. :)

No matter, we'll be 'one and done' by next Sunday, but it's good while it lasted - and Merling proved Vinny wrong - again. Yay!!

Posted by: Redcoat | December 31, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

"cl, agree to disagree on the g-men..."

OK, I was just going off what I see almost every Giants game, the analysis from the NY media, what the coaches say in interviews...

But sure we can agree to disagree....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th.

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

He also said he spoke to defensive coaches who played against the redskins and said JZ never changed his game plan. So, once they got tape on his offense it was pretty easy to stop...........

Pretty damning if you ask me. We'll see if he learned his lesson........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:11 AM


Thanks Real.

Reading that just pisses me off to the Nth degree. Funny thing is everybody on this blog figured that out by week 10.

The only silver lining would be that if Zorn's tenure goes down as a colossal failure, then Vinny would almost certainly have to get canned.

Not that I'm hoping we get worse, but I'm so through with the stay medium crap while we score only 13 points a game.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Mike Hunt is\was the Sheriff of my hometown's county :

http://www.aikencounty.net/DspDocTopic.cfm?qDocID=239

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

If I ever became the HC in Denver first thing I would do would be force the team to the Orange unies again.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I had to laugh when I saw the replay of Roger's INT versus the Niners on Sunday, and he came SO close to dropping that one as well.

Posted by: chombie13 | December 31, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Who even talks to this goof except cowards who won't go on record?

Football isn't national security, so anytime someone - a player, a team official, an assistant coach - is unwilling to state what they have to say for the record, it's best to take it with a big ole grain o' salt.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

--------

Right, because before any negotiations are done, before Hall has re-signed, before it's known what other players' intentions are, someone is really going to go "on record" and say that we are going to trade Carlos Rogers before the season is over.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm giving TE a standing ovation right now....

from SI:
"sources close to Cowher said he did not want to have Favre as his qb, and that he wanted to bring in people he was familiar with to handle personell.....the former Steeler boss would have to recieve assurances from the Jets that the 39 year old Favre was no longer in the picture before agreeing to take control"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"Football isn't national security, so anytime someone - a player, a team official, an assistant coach - is unwilling to state what they have to say for the record, it's best to take it with a big ole grain o' salt."

You are right, Football info is actually better guarded, more secretive, more tightly controlled, has less people involved, less leaks and harsher repercussions for leakers than our national security interests.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Hall is 2/3 years younger.

CR22 has shown good tackling skills and coverage skills, but his lack of holding on to the ball when it hits you between the numbers can cost a team. Like it did us against seattle in 2005. He ran that in, where in the NFC Championsihp game @ Carolina.......

Plus he Rogers has shown he dosen't perform well under pressure or competition.

Trade him ONLY if you can get real value for him. Otherwise keep him as your 3rd/4th CB.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

can't wait for the vinny presser to see what the knucklehead has to offer...

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Too many peeps up here are way undervaluing what CR does. I would love some numbers of how many TD's CR gave up all year, any time I was a DB get beat in coverage it was not CR.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Only statement that would make Cerrato presser worth watching:

"I have decided to spend more time with my family..."

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

OK, I was just going off what I see almost every Giants game, the analysis from the NY media, what the coaches say in interviews...

So you think Robbins is a better player than Tuck, or Osi?? Is that what you're saying?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

As for FG kickers, look how good John Carney still is at 44.

The point being I'd rather have them bring in a solid vet than a draft choice at that position. Nothing can replace experience in clutch kicking situations.

Either way, whether they go for a vet or for a young buck, this Suisham character has got to go. I wouldn't even invite him back to camp.

Someone once said - maybe it was Parcells, I'm not sure - that a good FG kicker will win you an average of 2 games per year.

And I guess the flip side to that is that a poor FG kicker will lose you about two games per year.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

al, didn't 22 get turned on that late td in the ravens game?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

psp23...

If you could get a high pick or two picks for Rogers, why wouldn't you at least listen?

Rogers is not a "shutdown" corner. He's average, and not worthy of an expensive long term deal. He tackles well but doesn't make plays when the opportunity is there.

As fans, sometimes we get attached to people who may not be able to get the job done.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 31, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

can't wait for the vinny presser to see what the knucklehead has to offer...

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse
The presser scheduel
Introduction- 1 minute
5 minutes of Vinny blowing spit bubbles and laughing uncontrollably.
3 minutes of talking to Mell Kipper on his cell phone.
8 minutes of taking "tough" questions from Larry Michael.
Finish- However long Danny needs him to do it.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

"CR22 has shown good tackling skills and coverage skills, but his lack of holding on to the ball when it hits you between the numbers can cost a team. Like it did us against seattle in 2005. He ran that in, where in the NFC Championsihp game @ Carolina......."

"Plus he Rogers has shown he dosen't perform well under pressure or competition."

Why is it that Carlos Rogers seems to get his hands on the ball more than any other CB we have here, even if he doesn't catch it?

By the way: INT totals on the year....

Springs - 1
Rogers - 2

Stonehand references need to take a critical look at who's taking Rogers' place. And it isn't Hall.

Also, after being demoted to 3rd corner and obviously playing for his career here in Washington, he completely outplayed Hall against the 49ers and had a stellar game against the Eagles.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

can't wait for the vinny presser to see what the knucklehead has to offer...

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:26 AM

He's going to confirm the rumors that yes indeed, he is a doosh.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

During the first half of the season, everyone thought Rogers was the second coming, and he was even being touted as having a Pro Bowl season. Now he's expendable? I think the way they've treated him is deplorable. I love Springs, but I think Hall and Rogers are the corners of the future.

Posted by: gburggal | December 31, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Greg,
Not saying he didn't give up a few but I would argue he probably had the least number of TD's allowed per game (have to do it that way as he is one of the few DBs to play most the year) of any of our DB's. But again I have 0 # on that stat.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

It just seems like a typical move this Redskins management would make. Keep an old player who is at the end of his career. I thought Carlos has a pretty darn good year - remember - folks were talking pro bowl at one point. Springs has been a very good player but he is old and just can't stay healthy anymore. Another point is the D-line put absolutely NO pressure on QB's and that made the play of the secondary that much more impressive. The bottom line is ther Skins need to maintain their strengths and beef up their weaknesses, i.e. O-line, D-line

Posted by: harryrainbolt | December 31, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

dump springs keep rogers. why would we sacrifice youth for age? we should have never mortgaged away our draft picks (thanks snyderatto) but we'd be foolish to keep springs and not rogers.

Posted by: dadanimal | December 31, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"So you think Robbins is a better player than Tuck, or Osi?? Is that what you're saying?"

I am saying he is as good, key cog to their DL play and allow Tuck/Osi to rack up stats...

Yes that is what I am saying....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Jerod Mayo wins D ROY award...shocker Patriots make brillant draft pick (again)

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Ppl still talking about the Champ Bailey trade???
Well, we got a future Hall of Famer for Champ so I like the deal.

Posted by: original_mark | December 31, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Not that I care about the Champ Trade anymore but if I had to bet my life on who gets into the Hall of Fame Champ or Portis I'll go with Champ anyday and twice on Sundays.

Champ is considered to be the best CB of his generation, 8 time pro bowler. 6 times All Pro.

Portis- 2 time pro bowl. Offensive ROY

It's not even close as far as I'm concerned. (I'm not talking trade here I'm talking HOF)

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Right, because before any negotiations are done, before Hall has re-signed, before it's known what other players' intentions are, someone is really going to go "on record" and say that we are going to trade Carlos Rogers before the season is over.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:23 AM |
----------------------------

Of the few people who have the AUTHORITY to make that decision, which one of them do you think spoke to JLC anonymously?

The Danny, The Vinny, or Zorn?

Give me a break,. People who talk sh*t without putting their name on it - particularly about something as ultimately inconsequential as pro football - are cowards (and more than likely, not in a position to make any personnel decisions anyway).

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Ricky, no one will even think about offering a 2nd rounder for Carlos Rogers. We'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for Carlos Rogers.

A 4th or 5th rounder for Rogers means two things :

1) We'd probably draft Malcom Jenkins (CB, Ohio State) or Vontae Davis (CB, Illinois) in the first round to make up for his loss, thus ignoring our needs another year.

and

2) We'd have one extra pick to do nothing with instead of a good #1 corner\very good #2 corner.


It would just be a dumb trade. Our secondary saved the D last year. I bet I could find stats to show our D got WORSE after DHall signed. He only played like 5 games here (or was it 6?). And who was the main focus before Hall got here and while Springs was lollygagging on the sidelines laughing it up?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"I think the way they've treated him is deplorable"

Not sure I follow you here?? What exactly did they do to him? IIRC he was sick going into the Cincy game, so for him not to get time during that game is certainly understandable.

He played GREAT for 10 games, but he seemingly fell off the last 5-6 games of the year in my estimation.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

peppers or haynesworth?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 9:04 AM

My vote goes to neither. I say we need quantity in free agency, not another "big plash."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

My thoughts exactly, but the FO knows that approach doesn't sell Jerseys and T-Shirts during training camp.

The loyal Detroit fans got their GM fired and Cleveland got Phil Savage fired. Maybe we can hope that one day Danny finally listens to the voices of his consumers -- cause that's how he sees us -- and fires his best bud Vinny and finally brings in a real GM with real NFL knowledge and not this PS3 Madden approach to running a football team.

Hell...at this rate a Bad-New-Bears or the Longest Yard approach would succeed more that what we've witnessed.

IMO

Posted by: Devo2 | December 31, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

psp23...

If you could get a high pick or two picks for Rogers, why wouldn't you at least listen?

Rogers is not a "shutdown" corner. He's average, and not worthy of an expensive long term deal. He tackles well but doesn't make plays when the opportunity is there.

Posted by: rickyroge

(1) I said if and only if we get an offer for a top 10 pick I would listen.

(2) There isn't a shutdown corner in the league outside of Asomugha.

(3) Hall will end up being one of the most beaten cornerbacks in the league this season.

(4) Don't you wonder how without Shawn Springs, without DHall, and with no pass-rush, this defense was still able to be top 10 during our 6-2 start? Carlos Rogers is FAR from "average". Rogers would start on 30 teams in this league.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Well TE it is valuable information to consider and always brings up the short term pride vs long term gain thing. Is it based on the old system of draft value or the "new one"

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:19 AM

Alex--Come on, dude, you know me: We met at the shabingus. The last time I did "the new one" was when it was what we today call "the old one." I don't think I even know what the "new one" is. If I did, then I'd re-do the calculations so that people will say "Wow, t_e, that other was something, but this is Something Else!"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

I would love some numbers of how many TD's CR gave up all year, any time I was a DB get beat in coverage it was not CR.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:27 AM

What you need to find out is how many points were scored on drives where he dropped the sure INT.

I was a Rogers backer at the begining of the season, def.

But as the season went on, and the seaosn grew, I think Rogers exposed himself. He started acting like a girl in his comments when DHall came on board instead of welcoming him and enjoying a competition. That's why he lost his spot. He got exposed......

Maybe he'll do good somewhere else, but his pshyche (sp?) is done here if he keeps the same piss poor attitude.....

We still have him under contract for up to 3 more years if we go in the uncapped year and he'll be 30 by then.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Gweez,
CP will get a nomination or two. Dunno about getting in but he will end his career with over 10,000 yards which at least gets you seriously in the conversation.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

I think the "talk" may just be fodder for trade bait!

i.e. if we're wanting to keep him, then he must be worth something.

I'm not saying it will work.. it's just the only logical way to interpret this.

Oh heck, let's just re-sign Deion.

:-|

...maps...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 31, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Look at Baseball. There's no way the owners agree to have an uncapped salary structure. They'll get a deal done with a cap for sure.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

greg,

thoughts on where cowher will end up either in '09 or '10...?

any chance if skins tank in '09 snyder goes after him and shoves vinny and zorn out the door?

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Trading a young solid #2 corner in Carlos Rodgers (when you don't have to do anything since he is under contract anyway) and keeping an injured, aging, corner in Shawn Springs makes no sense.

Now if we could somehow work a Carlos Rodgers for Leigh Torrence strait up deal then I'd have to say PULL THE TRIGGER!

Posted by: HokiePaul | December 31, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

My thoughts exactly, but the FO knows that approach doesn't sell Jerseys and T-Shirts during training camp.

Posted by: Devo2 | December 31, 2008 10:36 AM

Ha. You obviously weren't willing to buy a Justin Tryon or Durant Brooks jersey. I did. Thanks to me the 'Skins will continue to draft people like them. Wait, maybe that's not a good thing after all.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

By the way: INT totals on the year....

Springs - 1
Rogers - 2

Stonehand references need to take a critical look at who's taking Rogers' place. And it isn't Hall.

Also, after being demoted to 3rd corner and obviously playing for his career here in Washington, he completely outplayed Hall against the 49ers and had a stellar game against the Eagles.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:31 AM

That's incomplete. Springs played maybe 6/7 games. And those #s aren't good for either.

The other thing, when the QB throws the ball in the end zone, Springs would more often than Rogers make a play.

But why compare Springs and Rogers? THeir not competing for the same spot.

It's Hall and Rogers. I wouldn't say Rogers outplayed Hall in SanFran. He was o soo lucky to grab that joint......

Lisa - The other Oakland CB can still be franchised at around $14 Mil for the season.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Forever,

That may be the plan...

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Pats' Jerod Mayo is defensive rookie of the year.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I think Cowher stays out another year (he signed a one-year deal with CBS) and coaches in 2010, when he'll only be 53.

So he could still wind up here, if Zorn can't make progress in 2009.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"But why compare Springs and Rogers? THeir not competing for the same spot.

Posted by: DaReal4th"

That's where you're wrong. They're absolutely competing for the same spot. Cut Springs, that opens up 6 mill in cap space, more than enough to re-sign Rogers, plus extra.

And Springs played 9 games.

"The other thing, when the QB throws the ball in the end zone, Springs would more often than Rogers make a play."

How so? Springs ended up with 7 passes defensed. Rogers ended up with 24. Rogers makes more plays on the ball than any DB we have.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

" 'The Redskins getting rid of Rogers is the same as when we got rid of Antonio Pierce'

Biggest mistake the Skins made in the past nine or ten seasons. Of course London Fletcher helped fix the damage, but still, to give up a home-grown defensive signal-caller of that caliber, to a division rival -- just complete bollocks.

Somebody wasn't paying attention.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

forev, ESPN last night was saying that no way Bowlen lets shanny go without having a plan in place...is that 'plan' cowher....it will be interesting to see....

DBanks for SI was saying that how smart was it for Detroit to hire Mayhew, without even giving Pioli an interview....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Cut Springs, sign Torrence, sign Mason.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Alex,

I'm not saying he won't even get in. I'm saying to justify a trade by saying, "We got a hall of famer out of it" is pretty strange to be kind. We traded someone who has a better chance of being a HOF'er at a position where most football people regard as more critical. To say nothing of the 2nd rounder. I don't care about the trade, but the logic is well...lacking.

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

By the way, I thought Springs was going to move to safety, like Rod Woodson did.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 31, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Okay, I'm pretty sure we signed DHall in the bye week before the Dallas game.


Redskins record before signing Hall : 6-3

Redskins record after signing Hall : 2-5


not blaming him at all, just thought it was interesting

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

if that is snyder's train of thought...he'd be toast of the town in 2010 if he pulls it off

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

truth is correct on when we signed Hall. it was a big deal, it was the week before his birthday, too.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

They should make Rogers play out his rookie deal if they don't want to pay him now. He'll likely be motivated to play for a big payday when his deal runs out. Then they can let him walk or franchise/transition tag him. As good as Springs can be at times, he never stays healthy and at 34 that is unlikely to change. I'm not crazy about Hall, but if you have him on one side and Rogers on the other that's not too bad.

Posted by: skinswest | December 31, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Ha. You obviously weren't willing to buy a Justin Tryon or Durant Brooks jersey. I did. Thanks to me the 'Skins will continue to draft people like them. Wait, maybe that's not a good thing after all.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Good thing I know you're kidding

Posted by: Devo2 | December 31, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Springs only played in 9 of 16 games. His calf injury kept him out of 7.

He should definitely be cut. He's old, he's injury prone, he would save the Redskins money, and he's seem far more interested in pursuing a broadcasting career than playing football these days.

That leaves Rogers, Smoot, Tryon and - if they sign him, and they should - Hall.

The team's sucess or failure in 2009 isn't going to be dependent on whether they have Shawn Springs on their roster.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

greg,

good point w denver...if not cowher, could it be floyd reese (gm) / jim schwartz (hc) combo?

if schwartz leaves tenn...fischer could bring back greggggg

Posted by: forever21 | December 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

How so? Springs ended up with 7 passes defensed. Rogers ended up with 24. Rogers makes more plays on the ball than any DB we have.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 10:50 AM

That means the other teams are not scared to throw it to Rogers and ARE scared to throw it to Springs. Which really dispells your point.

Also, Springs money has nothing to do with Rogers and Hall's money. The problem in that would be Hall would get a bigger deal than Rogers and Rogers would begin to start crying like a girl again like he has the last 7 games which would decrease his value to the team and chemistry.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"truth is correct


Posted by: alex35332 "

Alex, you should make a keyboard shortcut (like ALT + 5) that types this out to save time in the future.


As should all of you.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

JLC - I hope you are wrong as hell on this one. springs should be gone, unless he will play for a nice salary. this will be another case of Washington not assessing it's own talent correctly. If they let rogers go for a third round pick, any team would gladly take a sure starting corner for that price. Springs is good, but the fact he only plays 8 games a year has to be a concern. He is the proven reliable vet, but he's 30-what? his shelf life is short, so why give up on a young player with better upside. Keep Rogers, he and his agent know what he is worth so start negotiating now. Get ahead of the curve, unlike what you did with Dockery, and sign the guy for a fair amount.

Posted by: oknow1 | December 31, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Also, if you haven't seen this, you have to :

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/29/pub-chrysler-faces-criticism-page-thank-ads/


exerpt :

"Chrysler is facing a backlash from taxpayers and conservative groups after the ailing auto company took out a series of full-page newspaper ads last week to thank Americans for "investing" in the company through the government's $17.4 billion auto industry bailout plan.

Critics say the company, which is expected to receive about $4 billion of that bailout money in the near term, should not be spending its already limited resources on pricey advertisements.

The ads ran last week in several major daily newspapers, including USA Today, The Wall Street Journal and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Since USA Today and The Wall Street Journal are two of the highest-circulation newspapers in the country, full-page ad rates are steep. A full-page ad in The Wall Street Journal runs between $206,000 and $264,000, and a full-page ad in USA Today runs between $112,000 and $217,000. "


sorry for off topic but god that pissed me off when I read it

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

funniest post of the day so far goes to alex for suggesting shanahan work under zorny. LOL...you guys really need to stop worshiping this fool. mikey won't let him coach his dog let alone his qb!!!! the dude is a freak (not the good jevon kearse kind neither)!

all this dude wants is his $6 million and he'll be happy. and go back to being an assistant qb coach. did you guys hear matt hasselbeck's presser after the game...his recollection of when zorny told him he was leaving was funny as hell...it was kinda like a guy breaking up with the girl and him expecting the girl to be all sad but she wasn't...

i'm telling you pray (scientifically proven to not help but hey!) for this team to either go 13-3 or 12-4 or 0-16. cuz if somehow vinny and the gang goes 9-7 you're stuck with these losers for another year or two.

also i'm kinda buying cL's madoff theory...i think snyder got a flesh wound at least in that thing cuz otherwise he'd be all over cowher, shanahan...and how's valkyre doing? anyone know the BO numbers?

and this whole rooting for another team thing is just lame. i joke about being a raiders fan but seriously if my team sucks i just won't watch the nfl. like the terps...when the terps are out of the tourney i don't watch the tourney. i don't go and pick another team to root for. that's so lame.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

(3) Hall will end up being one of the most beaten cornerbacks in the league this season.

Do you also happen to know the Mega-Millions numbers the next time it gets picked?? Could you email them to me beforehand......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Sorry truth
all my alt function keys are kinda set to F-Vinny.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

deal, couldn't find a lions blog to post on???

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

"i just won't watch the nfl. like the terps...when the terps are out of the tourney i don't watch the tourney. i don't go and pick another team to root for. that's so lame."

Really? I don't really "root" but I still LOVE watching any NFL or NCAA tourney game...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

The Danny's new movie grossed about 30 million over the weekend/holiday. It'll probably do 100 million here and another 100 million overseas. It'll more than break even.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

That means the other teams are not scared to throw it to Rogers and ARE scared to throw it to Springs. Which really dispells your point.

Posted by: DaReal4th

No, a stat that says Rogers was thrown at more often would say that teams are not scared to throw it to his side. Not a stat that says Rogers got his hands on the ball more often than anybody else.

As far as your other point...

-Hall shouldn't get a bigger deal than Rogers. He was traded away once, was cut once, twice has been a disruption to the "chemistry" you seem to think Rogers would disrupt, and has below average thrown against/completions totals and ratios. If Hall were to get a similar deal to Rogers, and he were the one to cry about it, then he should be the one that's gone. Hall is not more valuable than Rogers. Rogers should be the barometer for what Hall commands. Not the other way around.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Valkyrie:
Domestic Total as of Dec. 29, 2008: $33,590,000 (Estimate)
Production Budget: $75 million

boxofficemojo.com

My top quote about the movie "Valkyrie: I never thought that I would end up watching a movie that would make me root against a guy trying to kill Hitler."

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

when the terps are out of the tourney i don't watch the tourney. i don't go and pick another team to root for. that's so lame.

Posted by: dealer1

That posting says a lot about you.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"Do you also happen to know the Mega-Millions numbers the next time it gets picked?? Could you email them to me beforehand......

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

From espn:
"In his eight games in Oakland, Hall was beaten 40 times for 552 yards on 66 passes thrown his way, according to data compiled by STATS. He gave up more yards than any defender this season and was tied for third worst in catches allowed."

Worst in the league 8 games through the season. But I guess now he's God.

Someone before had mentioned not being blinded by the colors for the men you root for. Hall is not as great as you choose to believe he is.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

this years pathetic offensive output makes me long for Jeff George to Westbrook, in 2002. JK.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"when the terps are out of the tourney i don't watch the tourney. i don't go and pick another team to root for. that's so lame.

Posted by: dealer1

That posting says a lot about you."

Yeah I guess it says he doesn't watch the NCAA tourney when Maryland isn't involved...

But thanks again Issy for your constant empty moralizing....it never gets old...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

psp - That's why Asom (Oakland Guy) and Dion and Champ in their primes had very little stats such as passes defended an INTs....

Wh should Rogers be the barometer? And if he was, DHall shirley surpassed him based on that barometer. He has more INTs than Rogers. And has a better history year over year. AND, DHall is 2/3 years younger.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

It just means dealer doesn't really dig sports, just the teams he roots for. And obviously does not gamble.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | December 31, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Worst in the league 8 games through the season. But I guess now he's God.

Someone before had mentioned not being blinded by the colors for the men you root for. Hall is not as great as you choose to believe he is.

Posted by: psps23 ++++

Those that blame Zorn for the trouble on the Skins can't then blame, or assume that a change of plan or scheme wouldn't change the playmaking of said player.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Im not 100% on this, but if the NFL goes to an upcapped year in 2010, and CR22 becomes a "restricted FA", wont he be property of the Skins? Like in the days before free agency, when a players contract is up, he cant negotiate with other teams. So if this is the case, CR22 is under contract for next year and come 2010 when his contract is up, the Skins will be in prime position to resign him if they see fit.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 31, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

exactly posse81-84....

Not some grand comment on his moral character....

But not Gambling...thats just wrong!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I see where he is coming from. I am nowhere near as into watching an AFC game than I am a NFC game and no where near as into an NFC game if the skins are not playing. I will put it on TV but will maybe go on line check my email make dinner and stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"Those that blame Zorn for the trouble on the Skins can't then blame, or assume that a change of plan or scheme wouldn't change the playmaking of said player."

What would chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

But thanks again Issy for your constant empty moralizing....it never gets old...


Posted by: chrislarry

l=L not I,

i think it says much about the myopic views of some on this blog. don't like it Chrissy, don't read it...

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

psp - That's why Asom (Oakland Guy) and Dion and Champ in their primes had very little stats such as passes defended an INTs....

----

Champ Bailey's passes defensed from the years 1999-2007

17,15,17,22,9,12,23,21,14

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

TE I'm not a regular

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 10:14 AM

The mere regularity with which you write this, in and of itself, makes you a regular. Not to mention all the other posts.

You gonna be in front of your TV tonight to watch the yellowjackets sting the LSU tigers?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

larry michael, i mean greg, i like you so i'm not going to type what i'm thinking but you gotta give up the "i am skins #1 fan" cape. it's not cool.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I will watch any NFL game, anytime anyplace...i embarrassingly will watch an AFC preseason game to completion...

Ok maybe that statement says a lot about me...carry on...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

The smart move is extend Springs contract for a couple of years. That will drop his cap hit for 2009. Don't add any money to the deal. Make him a safety and backup corner to Hall & Rogers.

Do not trade Rogers. He is signed thru 2009. If the new collective bargaining agreement isn't done then he will be a restricted free agent in 2010 which means we could give him the highest tender. If someone wants him bad enough, we would get a 1st & 3rd round pick for him.

Posted by: cspwoods3 | December 31, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

+++I realize most people feel showing Rogers the door is a mistake, but at least we'd be getting something in return this go around (1-2 draft picks)... +++

And we see how well the 'skins do with draft picks.

See if I have this correct. They bring in DeAngelo Hall on a salary drive, and replace a guy who has played very well this year--despite his concrete hands--and who knows the system.

Then they may keep the guy who either was overmatched or quit on Oakland, and either Springs who's always hurt, or Smoot, who's always beat.

I think Hall is worth an incentive laden contract, not essentially re-instating his Oakland deal. But they['ll probably overpay, because that's the Redskin way.

I think the die was cast when they benched Rogers and now he's looking to leave.

I hope the skins haven't screwed up their only truely strong position, but if we learn anything from history, I imagine they are about to.

Posted by: TheCork | December 31, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

psp, how did he play when he came to the Redskins?? Was he the most beaten corner in the NFL still??

Never said he was God, great, or even good, I just didn't claim to have the ability to predict the future like you did.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

chris larry micheals

coincidence?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Not some grand comment on his moral character....

keep reading into it Chrissy.
Seems it may have struck a nerve with you.
Is he your man crush Chrissy? get over yourself and your assumptions already.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Those that blame Zorn for the trouble on the Skins can't then blame, or assume that a change of plan or scheme wouldn't change the playmaking of said player.

Posted by: lsskinsfan

Yes, Hall has been better here in DC. I never said otherwise. He's much better with a safety like Landry playing over the top.

But he's NOT worth more than Rogers. He's a very good CB turned great in this system. As is Rogers.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

deal, who is mayhew targeting in the draft, and are they bringing back culpepper.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

If the Skins do make any trades, it should be down from #13 to pick up a later 1st and acquire a 2nd. Trading Rogers doesnt make much sense with the likely uncapped year approaching. Especially if what cspwoods3 posted is true.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 31, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"I think Hall is worth an incentive laden contract, not essentially re-instating his Oakland deal. But they['ll probably overpay, because that's the Redskin way."

I think that's the third time since I've been coming here that I've seen Cork be correct on something.


That is how you compliment someone with an insult.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

From espn:
"In his eight games in Oakland, Hall was beaten 40 times for 552 yards on 66 passes thrown his way, according to data compiled by STATS. He gave up more yards than any defender this season and was tied for third worst in catches allowed."

Worst in the league 8 games through the season. But I guess now he's God.

Someone before had mentioned not being blinded by the colors for the men you root for. Hall is not as great as you choose to believe he is.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:17 AM

Dude, It's the RAIDERS. Didn't Randy Moss suck playing with them? And he played with the best CB in the league.

The raiders don't play with a Safety 20-30 yards deep either......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

If Desean Jackson could catch a ball Hall looks a lot like the Oakland version...

I say we sew Hall's hands on to Double moves arms and then sign that guy...

1ssy, don't worry I try to skip most of your post but the sanctimonious nature usually bleeds through my monitor.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Sorry peeps had to actually do some work today.

I see we're still arguing over something that has not been reported by anybody except for the Redskin outsider JLC.

I will not even discuss this until it is reported by a solid NFL guy like Glazer, Mort or yoda(Clayton).

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Signing Springs to an extension would be disasterous. Think about it...He is a 10 year NFL vet. For a cornerback, this is less than ideal. Let us not equate Springs to the longevity of greats such as Darrell Green. By no means am I ignoring the fact that he does have a couple years left in him of solid production, perhaps even pro bowl level production if healthy. This, however, is quite a large if. His knack for acquiring injuries the last few years has left the secondary in constant flux. Another year, it is reasonable to assume, will only increase the prevalence of nagging injuries thus limiting his time on the field. He needs to go. We are a team with an eye on the future, not simply next year. I love Springs and what he has done for us but I love the Redskins more...for the betterment of the Skins, Springs must go.

Hall has looked very solid even with a small oppurtunity to learn Blatche's schemes. Rogers was coming off terrible knee surgery and DOES look as if he is improving. Besides, working on your hands is something that can be improved. What cannot be improved you ask....age, speed and quickness. Rogers is young and possesses the neccesary attributes of a good starting cornerback. Lets sign both of these guys....work on our line and before you know it, we may have the tools for a succesful secondary for years to come.


RIP 21

Posted by: ST21RIP | December 31, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I find it hard to believe that they would trade Carlos Rogers. His return from injury and level of play up to the mid point of the season was unexpected. He put some serious licks on opponents during the season which surprised me. Of course he still can't catch BUT....he is definitely better than Smoot and I think covers better then a healthy Springs.

Posted by: redlotparty | December 31, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

i should've used the word "follow" instead of watching. i'll watch it but i won't make a "date" out of it. if it's on and i have absolutely nothing to do, and mrs. dealer isn't around and i have lost my bankroll, and nothing on hbo or encore. i'll turn the tv on and see if something is on. some years i didn't even know who the champion was. or if i log on up here and you guys are watching it...

:) i suck for writing that. sorry about that...ummmm so what time is that idiot's presser cindy?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I would trade our 1st for a late 1-2 and somthing like a 5th for two 7's or whatev, give Morocco more pickels.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I will say that bringing Springs or JT back is a mistake.

JT is terrible and Springs is hurt way to much.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

If Desean Jackson could catch a ball Hall looks a lot like the Oakland version...


if my aunt had balls....you know the rest...

Flound, get your priorities straight my man....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

don't like it Chrissy, don't read it...

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:24 AM |

You know this is one of those empty things that people keep posting up here when someone challenges them.

We have pages on the wiki that explain what it means when someone calls you an idiot http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/page/How+it+feels+to+be+called+an+idiot+on+RI

or says "agree to disagree"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I would part with Springs via cut or trade (maybe someone wants him, and would throw a pick for him) and see if JT would re-negotiate down the contract.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

greg, SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) you're crazy. fine! i'm a lions fan and you can have the holy trinity of danny, vinny and zorny!

honestly, i thought mark may was mayhew. i always get them two confused. mark may has the mayhew look.

i don't know who they'll be picking but i can guarantee you that whomever they pick will start over whomever skins pick.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Wow Beantown is the world that black and white to you. Its not "anti-fact" to notice that Hall was clearly beat multiple times in the Eagles game, and other times....

I would hope that when deciding if to throw the cash truck at him they study film and not just the stat sheet.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Flound, get your priorities straight my man....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:36 AM |

Doing that extra work was the only way I could get out of this Sh!t hole early today.

I have to go pick up my passport going up to West Virginia tonight want to make sure I have no trouble at the border.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I hate when people see things as either black or white. I live in the grey areas.

Posted by: not BeantownGreg / December 31, 2008

Posted by: notguy | December 31, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Sorry peeps had to actually do some work today.

I see we're still arguing over something that has not been reported by anybody except for the Redskin outsider JLC.

I will not even discuss this until it is reported by a solid NFL guy like Glazer, Mort or yoda(Clayton).

Posted by: Flounder21

You do bring up a very good point.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 31, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

BTW,
with the off season approaching I would now like to nominate the Detroit Lions as the most likely team to be relocated to a new city. THey are getting kicked off TV in Detroit because of poor ticket sales, have a bad owner, have a bad team.

Los Angeles Lions?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Dude, It's the RAIDERS. Didn't Randy Moss suck playing with them? And he played with the best CB in the league.

The raiders don't play with a Safety 20-30 yards deep either......

Posted by: DaReal4th

(1) I don't take solace in the idea that Hall cannot play well with a better corner opposite of him.

(2) You exactly made my point. He's a good CB turned great in this system. That doesn't mean that we should overextend ourselves to give him a contract he's not worth. I'd love to keep him around...at the right price. And that price should be whatever the team thinks Rogers would command. He is not a better corner than Rogers.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

how about


we re-sign Springs to a lesser contract and then trade him? He could pull a 2nd rounder I would think.

Is that an option?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

deal, look either start posting on a lions blog, or I'm 'gifting' you 10,000,000 bonus points for the 2006 tax season. Good luck climbing out of that hole.

cl, all I'm saying is that Hall played very well when he came here. Using the, "if this happened" when it didn't happen, argument is weak, and you know it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

issnotfan, fine! i'll bite, you got my attention...what do you want? *yaaawn* what did you mean by "that says a whole lot" or whatever you said? *yaaaaawn*...make it quick...not saying i'll respond or acknowledge it.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Anybody know what time pasta-boy is gonna open his yap?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 31, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

don't like it Chrissy, don't read it...

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:24 AM |

You know this is one of those empty things that people keep posting up here when someone challenges them.

We have pages on the wiki that explain what it means when someone calls you an idiot http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/page/How+it+feels+to+be+called+an+idiot+on+RI

or says "agree to disagree"

----------------------------------------------

Well that was premature sumitulation. We actually lost the "agree to disagree" page. Bummer. It was good.

What we need is a page that explains what someone means when he writes "don't like it, don't read it." Since you can't know whether you like it until you read it, this is about as dumb as a pound of hair.

But some of the posters who write this aren't really that dumb. They're trying to say something, but are having trouble with their words. So, please explain what they mean (in one sentence) when they write this.

We can add it as a wiki page if it measures up to the quality of the "agree to disagree" page which has been deleted.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

COWHER DIDN’T WANT FAVRE?
Posted by Mike Florio on December 31, 2008, 11:36 a.m. EST
According to the New York Post, Bill Cowher ultimately opted against coaching the New York Jets because Cowher doesn’t want Brett Favre to be his quarterback.

“There’s no way he’s taking Brett Favre as his quarterback,” an unnamed person close to Cowher said, according to the Post.

The Post also cites the matter of control over personnel and the composition of the front office, which ESPN’s John Clayton initially raised on Tuesday when reporting that Cowher wasn’t interested.

But then Clayton’s report was strangely shot down by his long-time colleague, Chris Mortensen, who reported that Cowher was still in play and that the Jets would do whatever needed to be done to attract Cowher. There was even talk of G.M. Mike Tannenbaum reducing his responsibilities in order to accommodate Cowher’s wishes.

Through it all, both Adam Schefter of NFL Network and Peter King of SI.com were holding firm to the notion that Cowher would not coach the Jets, or any other team, in 2009.

Our guess? The Jets scrambled on Tuesday to create the impression for the media and the fan base that the franchise made a full-blown effort to land Cowher, and we wouldn’t be surprised at all to learn that the notion Cowher didn’t want to coach Favre came not from a person in the splash zone, but from someone close to the Teflon-coated Christmas tree.

Really, why would the Jets choose Favre over Cowher? Favre might retire. Even if he doesn’t, the Jets might not be able to fit Favre’s $13 million base salary under the 2009 salary cap. And even though the Jets say that they want Favre to come back, owner Woody Johnson essentially conceded on Monday that we can’t believe anything positive he ever says about anyone employed by the team. (More on that later today, hopefully.)

Bottom line? The Jets don’t want to give Cowher the same authority over the organization that he enjoyed in Pittsburgh. And so Cowher will wait until 2010, when some team undoubtedly will give him whatever he wants.

Meanwhile, the flirtation with Cowher by the Browns and the Jets has ensured that, this time next year, Cowher will be at the top of the head-coaching wish list.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

RI,

The Titans are about to "re-up" Haynesworth contract.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 31, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Good point on not believing this until someone credible reports it. For the record, I think Smoot is terrible and I thought the same when he was here the last time too. He plays way too soft and scares no one. Springs is done, he can retire and go hang at TO's house like he did earlier this year...bye bye. This team needs youth and speed...not old slow injured guys.

Posted by: redlotparty | December 31, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

This is exactly the kind of move that Jasno will say "makes sense" now and then rips when the team is falling apart.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 31, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I would hope that when deciding if to throw the cash truck at him they study film and not just the stat sheet.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:39 AM

Didn't you read Jasno's post yesterday? They're going to spend two days in meetings and then go on vacation. By the time they come back, the DB coaches will be working in Houston. So, there's no one left to look at all the film on Hall.

Maybe they'll hire him in Houston. And if they don't, then that should tell you something.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

great minds chrislarry. or not

Posted by: notguy | December 31, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

psp, how about if we actually WAIT for a contract to be signed by Hall before calling it a bad move, and we actually wait for Rogers to be traded before we call that a bad move.

I mean, trying to keep reality part of the equation and all...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"cl, all I'm saying is that Hall played very well when he came here. Using the, "if this happened" when it didn't happen, argument is weak, and you know it....."

Its not weak. Quick question Greg, did you watch the Skin s v Eagles game? What evidence do you have that he played "very well". It is completely valid to watch the game and judge if Hall had his man covered or not. He clearly did not in the Eagles game on a couple of very obvious plays. Now did it end up mattering, no b/c Jackson dropped the ball. But that doesn't mean when your evaluating his worth you don't look at the film and say "Hey was he doing his job on the play

To use the "no harm, no foul" arguement is weak and you know it.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

greg, i'm going to put you *ignore*/ita mode if you don't stop.

btw...i thought jasno's post was good and actually had some insider information. it may be totallyyyyyyyyyy wrong but he had some insider information. and i do think whatever he's saying about springs is true. cuz look the guy was out forever and as soon as he shows up he's like the #1/#2 corner. that proves jasno's reporting that coaches love him. we may hate him but coaches love him.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"if this happened" when it didn't happen,

Posted by: BeantownGreg

It did happen. He was beat. It just didn't show up in the stat sheet. Kind of like when Jansen gets turned in pass-protection and forces Campbell to throw an incomplete pass.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I don't see them letting Rogers go even if they sign Hall. As someone else said, who is going to be playing cornerback in 2 years? Hall and ....who?

I don't trust Hall based on his past behaviour, so I'd be leery of giving him a large guarantee. But good corners are hard to find, so the skins may have to take a chance on him. Someone will.

I think they will keep all 3 if they can sign Hall, but I would pass on Hall first if the bidding gets too high before parting with Springs or Rogers.

Posted by: sysadb420 | December 31, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,

What are you hearing up there about the Tom Brady/Matt Cassel scenario. I would not be suprised if the Pats choose Cassel. If that happens, do the skins make a play for Brady?

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 31, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

To use the "no harm, no foul" arguement is weak and you know it.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:48 AM

and that's because in the NFL the "no foul, $15,000 fine" rule still looms large.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

e, right on!!! absolutely!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

cl, overall how did you think Hall played when he was here?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

FINE, Hall got burned in the Eagles game. This is the NFL son....everyone gets burned sometime...over the course of the season, Hall played great and kept his mouth shut. You can't argue with that!

Posted by: redlotparty | December 31, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

If Pats pass on brady for Cassell its for good reason, like his knee is shredded....

No Way!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

e, that was for jasno's ripping the team for letting rogers go and keeping hall.

i'm telling you all jasno needs to do is NOT HAVE AN OPINION and just report and no one will rip him for being biased.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

psp, how about if we actually WAIT for a contract to be signed by Hall before calling it a bad move, and we actually wait for Rogers to be traded before we call that a bad move.

I mean, trying to keep reality part of the equation and all...

Posted by: BeantownGreg

---------

Did I say it was a bad move already?

I said IF Rogers is traded, it would be out of utter incompetency.

I also said I would love to have Hall back...but not if it's at the cost of Rogers.

I mean, trying to keep reality part of the argument and all...

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

The presser is at noon.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 11:54 AM | Report abuse

If that happens, do the skins make a play for Brady?

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 31, 2008 11:50 AM

No. And if it doesn't happen, they don't make a play for Cassell. 'Skins are committed to Campbell for at least one more year. And if that doesn't work out, there will be some new, hot prospect next year that they can go after. Maybe Favre.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I don't see them letting Rogers go even if they sign Hall. As someone else said, who is going to be playing cornerback in 2 years? Hall and ....who?

Posted by: sysadb420

Exactly. And this is the reason why trading Rogers would only be done by a truly inept FO.

Of course, can't say it would surprise me...

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

We can add it as a wiki page if it measures up to the quality of the "agree to disagree" page which has been deleted.

Posted by: talent_evaluator +++

I never called CL an idiot or any other derogatory term. He stated he reads my posts and thinks they are a bit sanctamonious.
I think he reads into them too much, and as is often the case, those few words I wrote drew the ire of someone who probably felt insecure and needed to lash out. Probably struck a nerve with him.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

T minus FIVE MINUTES!!! thanks cindy!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Alex,

Those are all local papers piggy backing off each other, plus we all no Rogers said he does not want to be a backup.

JLC is saying Rogers is going to be traded, that has not been reported anywhere else and until it is it's not worth arguing about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

If Desean Jackson could catch a ball Hall looks a lot like the Oakland version

psp, the "if" in question was jackson catching the ball.

He did not catch the ball. Agreed?

oe, there was an article in the paper the other day stating that TBrady is 20 weeks behind in his rehab, and that the knee is loose, and there has been a decided lack of 'range of motion' in the knee. The plan is to go back in and clear out some scar tissue, which will further set back his recovery, and once in there, determine if the operation has been compromised due to infection. If it has been compromised, he's going to have to have a complete replacement again, and is done for 2009. If that happens, then they're going to have to keep Cassell, whether they end up franchising him or not is another question.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Tell Jasno to start uniting his shoe laces so he has something to throw!!!

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21
One of the things I posted said that rogers said if he did not get answers from Gray yesterday that he liked then he may ask for a trade.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Cindy,

Is the presser on 980?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

'Skins are committed to Campbell for at least one more year. And if that doesn't work out, there will be some new, hot prospect next year that they can go after. Maybe Favre.

Posted by: talent_evaluato

Yet another bonehead move by the FO IMO to be committed to JC. He has shown so much improvement over the years, I mean why have any competition? (only kidding)
He is and will be an average QB, not a great one.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like it is Rogers himself who is maybe tipping off JLC.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

In the last link he's just saying that he's not a backup to someone by the name of "nobody". Which is true. That doesn't mean he wants out, that is just him stating the facts.

Posted by: Gweez | December 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I liked how Hall played. But am I ready to break the bank on a guy who was playing to save his career? Was he "lights out" no. The Skins secondary is clearly the deepest position so he was part of a squad and a scheme that fostered success at that position.

My point was that if you watched the games (again Greg did you watch the Eagles game?)you could see elements of he player that got burned in Oakland. As I am sure the film of his Raider time shows you he was better there than his stats..

Its called taking a well rounded evidence/context based approach in deciding if he should be given a huge contract at the exspense of an equally talented/troubled young player that we already invested time/money/draft pick.

Personally I am in the cut springs...sign both camp.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Flounder21
One of the things I posted said that rogers said if he did not get answers from Gray yesterday that he liked then he may ask for a trade.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 11:59 AM |

Well he can ask all he wants, that does not mean he will be traded.

Again the point of this is that JLC said he was going to be traded not that he was going to ask for a trade.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I think he reads into them too much, and as is often the case, those few words I wrote drew the ire of someone who probably felt insecure and needed to lash out. Probably struck a nerve with him.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 11:55 AM

Now that's bizarre. I can think of other reasons than this. Maybe he thought you sounded sanctimonious and he told you so? Have you ever considered that maybe you do sound sanctimonious?

And do you think everyone who takes issue with you does so because they're "insecure and need to lash out?" Do you think everyone up here's marching out of step but you?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 31, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

If Desean Jackson could catch a ball Hall looks a lot like the Oakland version

psp, the "if" in question was jackson catching the ball.

He did not catch the ball. Agreed?

Posted by: BeantownGreg
--------

You know what the underlying point of the statement was.

Yes, Jackson did not catch the ball. That's not an indication of Hall's play on that pass.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

i'm on 980 and he's not on...maybe he's having the kind of presser that cleveland owner has....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"That's not an indication of Hall's play on that pass."

-------

I should say "that's not a proper evaluation of hall's play on that pass."

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Only an idiot like Cerrato will make a move where Springs is a starting corner going into 2009 and Rogers may be playing somewhere else.

Despite his stone hands, Rogers is still a serviceable corner opposite Hall...who is a liability in his own way

Except the idiot Cerrato wants to trade Rogers to get what???....a 2nd round pick at best. We ALL know how good Vinny is with picking players in 2nd round....we saw that this year....3 excellent 2nd round picks by Vinny...NOT

Springs will be healthy less than 50% of the time...which means Tyron will probably be starting opposite Hall...and that will make people miss Leigh Torrence..

Enough said. This team is doomed.

Posted by: mmz114 | December 31, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

This presser is yawn.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 31, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

if springs was healthy this year and played more than 13 games i would be all for springs and hall. and if rogers is worth what you guys think he's worth then get a first round pick back that you used to get him plus something else. not just give him away less than a first.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

can someone post anything good that VC has to say?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"insecure and need to lash out?" Do you think everyone up here's marching out of step but you?

Posted by: talent_evaluator

I call them like I see them. No one is marching in lock-step here. It's a blog! A place to post opinions, remember?

Stating, "That says a lot about you."
If that is sanctimonious, then so be it.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

ryp, where is the presser?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

He has shown so much improvement over the years, I mean why have any competition? (only kidding)

Posted by: lsskinsfan

I mean he's only improved his completions, completion percentage, yards, INTs, fumbles, rushing yards, and wins every year he's been in the league, despite whatever effects changing systems may have had on him.

But in the end, I agree, no reason to believe that he'll improve again....

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

mmz,

Again you are going by what JLC says, Cerrato and JLC would never talk, and Cerrato is the only guy with the pull to make this move.

Cerrrato maybe an idiot, but lets call him an idiot for things he has already done. Not for something JLC says he will do.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Here is the link from Skins.com
http://www.redskins.com/media/redskinsParkStream.jsp

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 31, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

redskins.com

Jasno is grilling Vinny about if he did enough for the team. Vinny said no, were not playing this week.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 31, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

But in the end, I agree, no reason to believe that he'll improve again....

Posted by: psps23 +++


You see no need to have him compete to earn the starting position? He's that shining star? I don't see it. He should have to compete, but it's probably not Zorn's call, like CP. The FO has probably mandated those choices already.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 31, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Talking about JC. Said he did makes improvements and he is the #1 QB. They judge him year to year.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 31, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

he's wavering on jc...only saying "jc is the starter"....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Hall has been beaten. This happens to CBs in the NFL. All of them.

He also had two INTs (and would have had a third if Springs had stayed on the sideline rubbing his calf), 25 tackles, and 8 passes defended, in 7 games.

Any inference that Hall has been abused (while with the Redskins) by WRs is absolutley absurd and a product of the smaller - and delusional - minds on this blog.

You know, the same ones who read a post by the tubby dork claiming Rogers will be traded and automatically BUY it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

making excuses for his 2nd round picks...saying they'll make big contributions next year

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Talking about rookies WR. Said look at ATL WR that they years ago said he was a bust but now is in the pro bowl. They just take time.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 31, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

he's pimping rob jackson and kareem moore...for next year

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

thanks guys....

deal, if it means anything..you're my favorite lions fan EVER....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it's a full-blown presser; he's sitting down individually with reporters. Since we talked to him 10 days ago, I'm not sure what else will come of it.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I like rob jackson and K-Moore...nice drafting Morrocco Brown!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Vinny looks like a total idiot on stage at the presser!

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

13th pick move up or value to move down. VC has no clue yet...wants to watch bowl games and senior bowl

Posted by: redlotparty | December 31, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Chad Pennington is the comeback player of the year.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

You see no need to have him compete to earn the starting position? He's that shining star? I don't see it. He should have to compete, but it's probably not Zorn's call, like CP. The FO has probably mandated those choices already.

Posted by: lsskinsfan

I already posted about this a day or two ago...

Any other position I would agree. Not QB. Aside from the mental aspect of the position, which is huge, the fact is that having competition significantly diminishes reps in the scheme, reps with the top WRs, and attention from the coaches' teachings. All that does is hinder progress, not promote it.

There's a reason 90% of teams in the league commit to one QB (arbitrary number, but you get the point). That is the one position that needs complete dedication from everyone on the team to maximize production.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

nothing burger presser

Posted by: redlotparty | December 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Watching the Vinny presser, I now understand why Dan keeps him around...those eyes are hypnotizing...

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

i LOVE it when they leave the mike on...afterwards

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

i was just going to post that!

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 31, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"wants to watch bowl games and senior bowl"

uh-oh should already have files on these guys pre-bowls and all star games...

On different topic....please can we get a college football playoffs...these endless meaningless bowl games are a joke...does anyone like them anymore...its not 1965???

College football is fun to watch, but my excitement for it would sky rocket with a playoff system...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

greg, if it means anything i'm picturing you more and more with 80's slick back brown hair and using words like "the sourcerer"...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

what got said that the mikes picked up??

John Daly got suspended for 6 months from the PGA

Charles Barkely pinched for dui..

Who saw this stuff coming??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

you say that like there's something wrong with the 80's......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Any inference that Hall has been abused (while with the Redskins) by WRs is absolutley absurd and a product of the smaller - and delusional - minds on this blog."

Posted by: MrRedskin21

The only delusional ones are the people that think a 7 game audition for a contract is the end-all be-all for a guy that was torched as the worst CB in the league the previous 8 games after receiving his payday.

He's not as bad as his Oakland days suggests, and he's not as good as his recent Redskins days suggest. Take off the blinders and look at him for he's really worth.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm outta here you guys have a safe and happy New Years Eve.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 31, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

All the people bashing Rogers are being a little silly IMO. Rogers is a great corner who makes few mistakes, yet everyone is complaining about him?

I like DeAngelo Hall and was happy to see the skins pick him up, but he is not as good a cover corner as Rogers. DeAngelo Hall makes plays because he takes chances. While he will make some big plays he will also get beat. Carlos Rogers is a very good cover corner and has not made many mistakes this year. Keeping him in tandem with Hall would, IMO, be the best option. Cutting Shaun "dead weight" Springs from the roster to free up cap room is a much better idea than sending away a younger, up and coming player who is also cheaper. Rogers has more heart, plays every game, is younger, is cheaper, and is very good.

What cracks me up is people always used to complain about Champ Bailey not getting enough picks too. I'll take a corner who does not make many mistakes, tackles well, and lets us play man coverage without worry at the expense of interceptions any day.

Posted by: ecale25 | December 31, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

flound same to you, enjoy...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"product of the smaller - and delusional - minds on this blog."

Typed by the dude who spent 2 hours arguing that the Redskins should/were going to move back to rfk....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Too funny that the mikes were left on...the reporters need to keep their mouth shut until they leave the room. Heard JLC making fun of Vinny's "I can't remember anything glaring" remark.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 31, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Also, to those of you who keep thinking Griff will get cut, I don't see it. Griff is one of our captains and Zorn seems to love him. If what Vinny says is true (the coaches will make the decision of who to keep and who to cut), Griff will still be a Skin (IMO).

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 31, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

College football is fun to watch, but my excitement for it would sky rocket with a playoff system...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Overall I agree but I would not mind a 16 team (11 conf champs + 5 WC) playoff with a bowl system on the side where teams that are not in the playoffs play in meaningless bowls still

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I keep forgetting psp thinks there are players in the NFL who have no flaws, it's just that none of them play for the Redskins.

Let's let Hall go and work Tryon in; let him "audition."

If nothing else, it will give you yet another player to piss and moan about next year.

You can never have too many.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

PS: "take off the blinders" needs to be retired as the stalest, most over-worked phrase on this board.

But it's especially amusing coming from people who read JLC religously and believe what is printed.

Personally, I wouldn't believe JLC if he said spring would follow winter.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I assume nothing was learned from the Vinnyview.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Now did it end up mattering, no b/c Jackson dropped the ball. But that doesn't mean when your evaluating his worth you don't look at the film and say "Hey was he doing his job on the play

To use the "no harm, no foul" arguement is weak and you know it.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 31, 2008 11:48 AM

CL, you haven't been paying attention lately. In Greg's NFL only stats matter. Film is for suckas, lames, or people who want to evaluate actual performance.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 31, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Is there anyone on this blog that actually thinks that either what JLC or Redskins Park says is actually ever 100% accurate or cannon?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

"I keep forgetting psp thinks there are players in the NFL who have no flaws, it's just that none of them play for the Redskins.

Posted by: MrRedskin21"

What players are you referring to? Your comments get less and less credible and sensible by the post.

"Let's let Hall go and work Tryon in; let him "audition.""

Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? Is there some concept you are failing to understand? I WANT Deangelo Hall re-signed. Just not at the cost of ridding Carlos Rogers.

But go on. Continue arguing with yourself. You're making great progress.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, it's not cool for you to single out jasno. Everyone was in on it...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 31, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I wouldn't believe JLC if he said spring would follow winter.

Posted by: MrRedskin21


I'll just reiterate my earlier statement:
"Your comments get less and less credible and sensible by the post."

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Smoot (Mr. I play 15yds off my man)... GOTZ TA GO! Springs, send him off as well.

In order for the Rogers to make plays and gamble at the right moment, we need a FRONT FOUR to push. Draft CODY at the 13th pick and find a way to get Kevin Ellison from USC. Dude is a Strong Saftey who is 6"1 230lbs. However, we can play him at outside linebacker (replacing Washington).

Posted by: skin84 | December 31, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"product of the smaller - and delusional - minds on this blog."

Typed by the dude who spent 2 hours arguing that the Redskins should/were going to move back to rfk....

Posted by: chrislarry

Ah, I see. All makes sense now.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is meeting with Post scribes now.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"Film is for suckas, lames, or people who want to evaluate actual performance"

haven't you been holding your breath like I told you to??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 31, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Vinny and Jason sit down at a table across from each-other, vinny pulls out an index card.
Vinny: I have some questions that I prepared actually for this that I would like to start with

Jason: okay...
Then JRied walks in.
Reid: I thought I would sit in on this too.
Vinny is flummoxed
Vinny (meekly): Oh okay... Who do you think, you are?
Jason: I am Jason.
Vinny: What? What gives you the right?
jason: Sorry?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"Your comments get less and less credible and sensible by the post."

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:48 PM |
------------------

I don't care what YOU "want" or think.

That clear enough, Skippy?

My reply referenced your criticism of Hall as being beat by WRs. As if other CBs aren't.

Beyond that, you're doing a fine job of maintaining your image as a pathetic malcontent who gripes at and about everything.

Don't ever change.

:)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

It probably is Vinnie himself, the "inside source". Just like Casserly and Beathard.

JlC, YOU NEED to finish the sentence. If they do as you suggest above the 13th pick of the 1st round will more than likely be a corner like Mickens and not a starting OT, preferably LT they desperately need.

Back to drafting for defense, when the offense is hurting for those picks. IMHO, and I hate to say this ... but they will have to take Rogers, possibly Smoot, plus draft picks next year to get another 1st and hopefully a second. The OL cannot and should not wait. They absolutely have to strike while the iron is hot and that is in this year's draft.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Typed by the dude who spent 2 hours arguing that the Redskins should/were going to move back to rfk....

Posted by: chrislarry

Ah, I see. All makes sense now.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 12:50 PM |
-----------

Were?

Put down the crack pipe, maggot.

I suggested they SHOULD.

But the fact that it still sticks in what passes for yoour brain weeks later defines you well.

Thanks for letting me live rent-free inside your head.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

chrissy and psp = Paris and Nicole.

But hey, I shouldn't be picking on people who need "back-up" on an anonymous message board, so I'm no better.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

ok - I don't know what the argument was about.. and I don't want to..

but "Thank you for letting me live, rent-free, inside your head" is AWESOME!!

That's going on the wiki!! ahahahahahahahah

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 31, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

hey dik, hows the lounge

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Kendall and Jansen will be replaced.

Rabach, Samuels and Thomas are fine.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Vinnie sez,

"Jason, Jason, Cindy cheese bbbbbbuuuububbubububu"

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Hall is awesome.

And he is a Redskin at heart. Need more of those. I want Byron Leftwich.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 31, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Cannot see the sense in keeping Springs if it means Rogers goes. He'll be one season older, even MORE injury prone - unless we restructure the contract so he's paid by the minute we should bite the bullet - he may only play 4/5 games!! I'd rather see if we can keep Los and Hall, and if poss see if we can find someone else to start @ FS to allow Landry back to SS...Agree with the comments that infer it's a lottery what kind of Hall we get when the ink on a whopper contract is dried...

Anyway, is 6pm in London so the boozing must commence (order of play: G&T, sherry, red wine, Black Sheep ale, Glenlivet, madeira ...if I retain consciousness I may be back here mistyping balderdash later on, if not then HNY to all, party safe and HAIL!

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | December 31, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

> Rabach, Samuels and Thomas are fine.

They all need to be replaced soon. The draft picks to do so are available this year. Samuels has been seriously injured as has Thomas. Rabach is better but aging.

You don't wait until the last minute unless your name is Vinnie Cerrato.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

"My reply referenced your criticism of Hall as being beat by WRs.

Posted by: MrRedskin21"

I see, this is a case of a lesser-informed individual (or purposefully ignorant, one or the other) entering a conversation without seeing or acknowledging the full facts.

I didn't criticize Hall for being beat by Jackson. Someone else did. I simply re-affirmed that yes, he was beaten on that play - even if the stat sheet didn't show it. That was not my argument. Somebody else made it.

What I criticized Hall for was being the statistically WORST cornerback in coverage through his 8 games in Oakland. QBs were 44/66 for 552 yards when throwing Hall's way. Sorry, but "every corner" does not get beat like that.

Even having said that, I STILL would like Hall re-signed.

But again, continue your pointless argument. BTW, I guess my being a malcontent is the reason I've been so ardently defending Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers on this blog. It must be my dissatisfaction with everything Redskins.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Is it just me or did it seam like 1/3 of the guys that are on the 49ers roster was from our area

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

It means sticking with success ... drafting DBs this year. They have done extremely well drafting DBs there is no doubt about that after Horton's year.

"Cannot see the sense in keeping Springs if it means Rogers goes. "

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

We also can trade Ladell Betts for another pick as well. Which can be used to select Offensive linemen or smaller scat back like CJ Spiller from Clemson.

But what am I thinking, Vinny has all of this figured out.

Posted by: skin84 | December 31, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"But the fact that it still sticks in what passes for yoour brain weeks later defines you well.

Posted by: MrRedskin21"

Coming from the guy that guy that just said this:

"Beyond that, you're doing a fine job of maintaining your image as a pathetic malcontent who gripes at and about everything."

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Yyyo, Alex.

the Fabulous ShuttleLOUNGE is currently only existing in memories. Though we did get called for gigs this holiday season.

I'm moving to DC soon, it seems (the Cowboy fan WIFE wants to move there??!! ... luv her to death, but she's nuts ;) and mebbe I'll break out the shtick in the hometown to see how people react... we'll see.

..And 21 - I think Janzen will cost us like 4 million extra if we get rid of him next year - so he'll be here even if he's on the bench. He will be better healthier, tho. But we need SIZE! We need to get about 100 lbs. heavier on both O&D lines.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 31, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

If they ignore the plethora of OL out there this draft they will get beaten by teams that do take advantage of it starting next year.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"Beyond that, you're doing a fine job of maintaining your image as a pathetic malcontent who gripes at and about everything."

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 1:10 PM |
-----------------

Yes. And that's just based on today's posts!

God only knows what kind of rube you are the rest of the time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

What up with her? The bush is being re-planted back in texas. Got a Hawaiian Reggae surfer guy now. She be hating life mon.

"I'm moving to DC soon, it seems (the Cowboy fan WIFE wants to move there??!! ... luv her to death, but she's nuts ;) and mebbe I'll break out the shtick in the hometown to see how people react... we'll see."

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"We also can trade Ladell Betts for another pick as well. Which can be used to select Offensive linemen or smaller scat back like CJ Spiller from Clemson."

Or Devin Thomas. Yeah they are going to need those picks. Higher round picks preferably. Drafting OL or LB and not skill players. They don't do very well with the skill player positions of late with the exception of QB.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

NICE OFFICE REFERENCE ALEX!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

The FO shouldn't get credit for Horton. If Dwayne Walker had not been an assistant here, Vinnie wouldn't have stumbled upon this kid if Horton was lying in the doorway to the ESPN980 studios on Monday morning after a Skins victory.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 31, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. And that's just based on today's posts!

God only knows what kind of rube you are the rest of the time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21"

Darn. You got me. I've been figured out.

Whatever, let's end this argument.

You've successfully changed my mind from:

-wanting to re-sign Deangelo Hall

to

-wanting to re-sign Deangelo Hall

You win.

Posted by: psps23 | December 31, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Don't laugh, besides being a hometown boy and a former 1st rounder for Jacksonville he really looked good this year when he replaced Ben.

He may be better than Jason Campbell. That might actually make sense: QB competition between those two with Todd Collins or Colt at 3.

I would like to see that.

"I want Byron Leftwich."

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

What I criticized Hall for was being the statistically WORST cornerback in coverage through his 8 games in Oakland. QBs were 44/66 for 552 yards when throwing Hall's way. Sorry, but "every corner" does not get beat like that.

----------------

Who cares? It's the RAIDERS.

In 2006, Randy Moss was ranked 73rd in the league in receiving after playing in 13 games for Oakland.

Why?

Because it's the RAIDERS!

Smart people throw any Oakland stats out the window.

Moss was good in Minny, horrible in Oakland, good in NE.

Hall was good in Atlanta, horrible in Oakland, good through his short time here so far.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Truth I just finished watching the British version, worth a look. Similar episodes and shorelines but the way they play the characters is much more extreme and less censorship.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

He too costs $6,000,000 against the cap. If they get Hayneworth as Jasno's inside sources say they might I think you've seen the last of Griff unless he takes a significant pay cut.


"Also, to those of you who keep thinking Griff will get cut, I don't see it. Griff is one of our captains and Zorn seems to love him. If what Vinny says is true (the coaches will make the decision of who to keep and who to cut), Griff will still be a Skin (IMO)."

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"We also can trade Ladell Betts for another pick as well. Which can be used to select Offensive linemen or smaller scat back like CJ Spiller from Clemson.

But what am I thinking, Vinny has all of this figured out.

Posted by: skin84"

I think you're overestimating Betts' value.

Dude is like 30 years old. We could've traded him after his big year, but honestly I wouldn't trade anything over a 7th rounder for him, if that. I'd rather take a chance on a small-school 7th rounder that is young and has potential.

We don't have many people we could trade.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 31, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Here is a wild idea, if we are overhauling the o line anyway why not try and triad Samuels. Just a thought.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"We don't have many people we could trade."

You can trade Thomas and keep Kelly. They need OL more than a receiver with an attitude who can't learn an offense that is exponentially simpler than the one they used the previous year.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"No! Not a third."

I think its going to have to be a package. This team is made or broken on this draft. Because of the depth of linemen.

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm reading JLC's comments about Rogers differently. It seems like speculation based on things he's hearing more than actual reporting. I haven't read anything in the Post about Rogers being traded just random thoughts in the Insider blog.

Posted by: Solnoir | December 31, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me why Cooley has watches being sold on his website?

http://chriscooley.myshopify.com/

Posted by: alex35332 | December 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Untradeable. His contract would cost the new team too much of salary cap hit in guaranteed bonuses over the next 2 years.

"Here is a wild idea, if we are overhauling the o line anyway why not try and triad Samuels. Just a thought."

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"And, if the Skins are in more of a cap bind than projections indicate, they could guarantee Springs's salary, convert it to a bonus, add a few years to the contract and slash the cap figure."

Yeah, that's worked out great with Jansen.

"If it wasn't an audition of sorts, well, it certainly seemed like one."

Hadn't he already auditioned with Stone Hands and Smooter?

Posted by: WorstSeat | December 31, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Yeah and his wife is hot.

"Can someone tell me why Cooley has watches being sold on his website?

http://chriscooley.myshopify.com/"

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Rogers and Smoot were moved down on the depth chart without any kind of feedback. They weren't rotated like they did at the beginning of the year like they do with the dline and lb's. He only got to play when Springs was injured. No one talked to them.

The handwriting does appear to be on the wall. Can't say its the right move but apparently its what Blache and Gray decided to do. Maybe a new DB coach would have a different take? It might be a good thing if both Gray and Jackson left.


"Maybe I'm reading JLC's comments about Rogers differently. It seems like speculation based on things he's hearing more than actual reporting."

Posted by: periculum | December 31, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

OK geeks-
those of you at work- go ahead and leave for the day

those of you at home- find something better to do

Posted by: richard_cranium | December 31, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I wouldn't believe JLC if he said spring would follow winter.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 31, 2008 12:39 PM

And I wouldn't believe your mom when she said she was disease-free. That's why I double-bagged it.

Posted by: hollywoodhogan420 | December 31, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 31, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"And I wouldn't believe your mom when she said she was disease-free. That's why I double-bagged it."

Now that's funny!

Posted by: richard_cranium | December 31, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I keep it simple. The secondary was THE strength of this team. No other unit was as strong. What they did without a pass rush was excellent.

Mgmt should do their best to keep this unit together. Some paychecks will change. Springs is going to take a paycut because no one is going to give him significant guaranteed $$.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 31, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

This is the gist that I'm getting from JLa's "sources" and his opinions:

We sign Hall long-term.
We re-sign Springs.
Rogers and Smoot don't survive past next year (if that long).
Justin Tryon is at best a 4th CB in this league.

So despite our secondary being the greatest strength of this team, we are essentially going to blow the whole thing up?

Since 2006, Springs has started 29 of a possible 48 games. That's 19 games that our "No.1" CB has missed or played sparingly in due to injury. I don't see him getting more durable as time goes on and he gets deeper into his 30's. If we extend him and pay him like he's still a top corner in this league (which is what I would imagine he's going to demand) it would be a HUGE mistake.

Which would basically leave us with Hall and Tryon in a year...Ughh.

BTW- What is the deal with Byron Westbrook? This guy is a cornerback that has been on the team for like 2-3 years and besides "simulating" his brother in prep for the Eagles games, I don't know of any contribution he's made...JLa doesn't even mention him in the breakdown.

Posted by: p1funk | December 31, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Keep DeAngelo. That is all.

Posted by: wp11234 | December 31, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

So we have a 1st (13), 3rd, 5th and 6th round pick in this draft and that's it correct?

Thats pretty ugly ... I can't believe we gave up a high second for Taylor who we're probably going to cut.

Well I guess the best we're gonna end up doing is trading down our 1st to get a late 1st and 2nd.... trading Rogers for a 2nd/3rd or Springs for 6th ... and trading Betts for a 4th/5th ....

Thats depressing considering the lack of starters from our last draft and that 1/2 the team is over 30.

Posted by: mac2j | December 31, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

The Skins should sign Hall if the figure is not astronomical (See Nate Clements); however, if he asks too much, let him walk. They definitely shouldn't trade Rogers willingly. He and Fletcher were the strength of the defense early in the year while Springs was injured and Hall was floundering in Oakland. Although he's not securing picks, Rogers is excellent in coverage and is a solid tackler. That's what you want in a corner... Picks are icing on the cake.

I say sign Hall to a reasonable contract, and keep Rogers for the duration of his contract. If he plays well then franchise, trade (if franchised), or re-sign him. As for Springs, they should either cut him or rework his contract and move him to FS. This would allow Landry to move back to SS and play closer to the line. They could then rotate Springs, Moore, and Horton in with Landry.

In free agency, VC should definitely try to secure a DL starter (Haynesworth or Peppers) and an OL starter (Gross). This puts less pressure on the draft and is not haphazard spending as in previous years.

Lastly, they should trade down for multiple pics (1st & 2nd or 1st & 3rd) with the #1 and find 2 quality interior offensive limemen within the 1st 3 rounds. Subsequently the focus should be on upgrading the LBs after Washington's departure. These moves would keep the Skins competitive, and a borderline playoff team until one of the young WRs is able to supplant ARE and compliment Moss.

Posted by: Prime1 | December 31, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I agree completely with Rypien 11; if we keep Springs, we need two starting caliber corners, because of Springs injury problems. What some folks just don't seem to get is the reason our secondary was such a strength was that even when Springs was out, we could still field two strong corners. Rogers still has his problems, but is still considered by many in the league to be a strong starting corner. And I doubt if we could get any better than a 3rd round choice for him.

Posted by: kenboy1 | December 31, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see the Redskins think LONG TERM and sign BOTH Carlos Rogers and DeAngelo Hall to long term contracts. Shawn Springs is a very fine player, but has not been able to stay healthy, and that dramatically damages his true net contribution to the team. Sure if we have the budget to keep him on as jack of all trades defensive back, but our needs elsewhere suggest it's time to part ways.

Posted by: shane2229 | December 31, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

The Skins absolutely need to leverage their strength, the secondary, to beef up the D line. I'm just not sure about keeping Springs. He does seem to produce when he plays (rarely see him burned on big plays), but he's hardly every healthy and his injuries seem to be nagging ones (what the hell is up with his calf?).

I like Rodgers, but he can't catch. He'll go somewhere else and catch 10 INTs (he'll do nothing but practice catching in the off-season, just to prove a point to the Redskins). Rejection is a mighty motivator.

With Williams as the #1 corner and a defensive line that can put pressure on opposing QBs, you won't need an expensive CB on the other side. Just someone who is servicable and won't give up big plays.

Get rid of Smoot, keep Rogers OR Springs, but not both and beef up the D line with the money they save. Landry and Horton make for a very nice safety combo. Throw 100 balls a day from 5 feet away at Fletcher's face until he learns how to catch(the Patriots linebacker drill). End result - more sacks, more turnovers, more wins.

Posted by: saqster | January 1, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

By the way, the best defenses in the leagure aren't led by their cornerbacks.

Look at the starting CBs for this year's Pro Bowl:

NFC
Marcus Trufant - Seattle
Al Harris - Green Bay
Terrance Newman - Dallas

AFC
Champ Bailey - Denver
Asante Samual - NE
Antonio Cromartie - San Diego

What are the chances any of these guys are in thus year's Super Bowl?

On the other hand, look at the Ravens and Steelers.

Great Safeties, great Linebackers and Defensive linemen that spend most of their time in the offense's backfield.

We have Landry, Horton and Fletcher. Put some game changers on the D line and just about anyone can line up at cornerback. Don't need to spend too much on cornerbacks. They are not part of the formula for building a championship caliber team.

Posted by: saqster | January 1, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Amazing what this team see in Springs.(WOW)

Posted by: dmayfiel | January 1, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Seattle got rid of Springs in 2004 and went to the Super Bowl in 2006. He's not vital.

Posted by: saqster | January 1, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

only an idiot would keeps springs. He is old and injury prone. so what if he had a good year for the games he played. he is at a point were this could be his last good year. Rogers can cover. he may not be able to hold on to int's but he can cover. i would dump springs or get him to agree to a pay cut. Not worth the risk an y more to keep arould at his price. smoot may have to go also. good player but the skins need to start cutting there cap numbers. vocus on getting a real pass rush and protecting the passer.

Posted by: drpolarbear | January 1, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Hard to pick between Rogers and Williams. Rogers was playing at an all-pro level early in the season. A lot of balls hit him in the hands, so he seems to be in the right place most of the time. There's got to be a way to teach him to catch.

Williams has a history of being a malcontent, and I've seen big receivers like TO abuse him. But, he makes big plays and can be a game-changer.

But since they can get something in return for Rogers, I'd probably deal him.

I agree that Springs has got to go, unless the Skins can get him on the cheap. He can't be counted on and the D played well enough without him this year.

The defense's biggest problem was an offense that couldn't stay on the field or score points.

Posted by: saqster | January 1, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Without question Shawn"China Doll"Springs has got to go. His body cannot withstand the rigors of pro ball anymore, I can't see how anybody in their right mind can't see that, the guy is in his mid 30's and that is nursing home age for a DB, he is not the "freak" of nature that Darrell Green was. We need OL help and DL help(PASS RUSHER)!!. Zorn needs to let someone else return punts, D.Thomas, Tryon, or Marques Hagans(practice squad) who is a hell of an athlete who did it all at UVA(QB,WR,KR). There are people on the team who can return punts better than ARE without a doubt, Zorn needs to make this change and stop BS'ng!! Fred Davis needs to get on the field we need his speed and pass catching ability to give the defense other options to defend. If he can't learn the plays, dumb it down for him then, or whatever it takes but get him on the fuc%*ng field!! The young guys drafted need to get in the mix next year anyway possible and Zorn needs to be more flexible in his schemes and it is the coaches job to teach, if players aren't learning then the coach or coaches need to look at themselves.

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 1, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

This team has killed itself letting go of youth/draft picks for aged stars, which is a major reason our O and D lines are so inneffective. Why would we do the same to our one great strength, our secondary, by ditching Rogers in favor of a 34-year-old Springs who has been unhealthy and has lost his fire for playing with the 'Skins? Sure, Rogers misses interceptions like crazy, a big problem that is fixable with the right drills (practicing with the recieving corps a little wouldn't hurt). But he's at least in the right position to make them and prevents the receiver from getting them. He not only has good speed, but bone-jarring toughness which, along with Landry and the hard-hitting Horton and Fletcher, makes receivers think when they run middle routes/go up for the ball. THE SECONDARY IT IS THE ONE STRENGTH WE HAVE, WHY MESS WITH IT? As for Campbell, I think he has graduated from being a 'young' quarterback with potential to being a late middle of the pack signal caller. He is smart, considered charismatic in person, but doesn't process info quickly enough in the on-the-field nano-seconds needed to be an elite quarterback. Great quarterbacks do, which is why they're always dangerous to the end of the game. A quarterback like Campbell can execute a game plan, but lacks the intangibles, savvy and rapid processing needed to rally a team, come from behind and manage the clock late, not to mention beat a great defensive scheme. If he were to become that guy, he would have at least shown stronger flashes of it by now after four seasons. Colt, as green and unready compared to Campbell as he is, showed more of that intangible, quick-decision savvy in the pre-season than Campbell has all season.

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 1, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins are in dire need of Offense and Defensive Linemen with only four picks those two deficiencies can't be address; therefore I think the Redskins need to trade Rogers for draft picks. Hopefully a second and a fifth rd pick would suffice. If trading Rogers for multiple picks is fulfilled, then I would resign Springs to a salary cap friendly deal. In addition, Springs needs to train at Redskins park in the off-season instead of in Arizona, or send a Redskins Rep. with him. In my opinion the injuries Springs is sustaining over the years I believe stems from overtraining………………..James Thrash would have a greater impact for this team as a coach or mentor for Kelley and Thomas on breaking down Jim Zorn’s playbook...........If the draft picks are obtained for Rogers I pray Vinny doesn’t blow it like he did last year. One out of ten picks making a contribution to this team is Alarming!!!! Lastly, someone tell Vinny in the salary cap era and with the draft only being seven rds no NFL team waste there draft picks on punters anymore.

Posted by: Topshottaz | January 1, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Time to go shopping?

2009 Offensive Line Free Agents: http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/ol.html

2009 Defensive Line Free Agents:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/dl.html

2009 Free Agent Line Backers:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/lb.html

I like Rogers and think he'll learn to catch one day, but the elite teams in the NFL aren't elite, because they have great cornerbacks. They're elite, because they are stout up front. If the Skins can get some picks for Rogers, then so be it (assuming they use those picks to repair the O and D line).

I don't blame Cerrato for last year's picks just yet. Although drafting 3 pass catchers in the second round was idiotic. I actually think all 3 players will pan out, but most teams would have better utilized them as rookies. The coaches failed to get the most out of it's rookie crop and will pay the price by having to develop them next year instead. Our receivers are mediocre at best, so how they failed to get Kelley and Thomas more involved is beyond me.

Posted by: saqster | January 1, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

springs can't stay healthy and his play will decline, we should sign rodgers and hall

trade portis for picks..

get a rb in the 2nd 3rd round and use betts

Posted by: jrak1 | January 2, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Having both Hall and Rogers locked in for the next 3-4 years is so obviously the best option. Rogers was our best and most consistent corner all year. Hall is an unproven problem child with potential. Springs gives you 7 good games a year, and we'll be searching for his replacement as soon as next offseason. This is so obviously the wrong move at such an important position. We got this right- DON'T SCREW IT UP!

Posted by: jwt22 | January 5, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

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