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Redskins by Position: Offensive Tackles

My gut feeling - and this is purely a guess this far removed from the draft - is that the Redskins will use the 13th overall pick on a tackle. The offense is poor enough as it is, and if the team doesn't start the transition to some young stars at this position soon, it can forget about Jason Campbell's development, offensive improvement and all of that stuff.

The Redskins have one competent NFL starting tackle on the roster right now and, yes, Chris Samuels is much better than that. He's a perennial Pro Bowler, but he again played nearly all season on bad knees and I am not convinced that he will be 100 percent for the start of camp. He is coming off a torn triceps and another arthroscopic procedure on his knee.

When he's healthy, he's excellent. You can leave him without help much of the game and won't get hurt. Sure, guys like DeMarcus Ware will beat him for a sack or two over the course of a season, but Samuels is very strong and outstanding in the run and pass games. The question is where his play will be two years from now. Who is there to replace him? When will the transition begin?

It should start now. Last year it was obvious that tackles were the great strength of the draft and the Skins were enamored with several. But Vinny Cerrato and Daniel Snyder traded out of pick 21 and the first round entirely in a year in which eight tackles went in the first round, and many shined immediately.

(Jeff Otah was taken two spots before the Skins picked - in the range where they could have moved - and was excellent for Carolina. The Skins traded pick 21 to a team, Atlanta, that also made the playoffs and the Falcons took a tackle, Sam Baker. He is the future left tackle and was an immediate starter who came back from a back injury for the playoffs. A player a lot of people at Redskins Park liked, Duane Brown from Virginia Tech, went at pick 26 and started every game for Houston.)

The Redskins need a new starting right tackle immediately, which is where I would expect the draft pick to start, and then perhaps shift to left tackle over time with Samuels perhaps prolonging his career at right tackle. Jon Jansen is not a starter at this point, not after all the injuries and with the lateral-movement problems and the sacks. Jansen's cap numbers make it more expensive to cut him than to keep him, and as a reserve he is an asset. For a week or two you could do much worse. But you can't expect to start him for 16 games and not have the same problems the Skins had this season.

Likewise, you can't at this point merely pencil in Stephon Heyer at right tackle and expect good results. I haven't seen enough to say he's a starting-caliber tackle (he still has leverage issues, for one thing); if anything I think he's a good third tackle. The Skins would seem to agree, since he couldn't beat out Jansen, at least in the eyes of some. (Offensive line coach Joe Bugel is often loyal to some veterans to a fault, with this being one of those cases; they needed to bring in a younger lineman or two during the second half of the season and did not. That was a surprise to many around Redskins Park.)

There is a sense among several offensive coaches that they need to upgrade here ASAP and I'd be stunned if the Skins didn't at least sign a value veteran tackle with starting experience, in addition to drafting one. I don't think they go into the season with Heyer as a starter. They will need some depth and I don't see them bringing back Jason Fabini. They survived two seasons with him and got what were likely his final effective outings. It would be a real gamble to do that again.

As for the other tackles on the roster, Devin Clark and D'Anthony Batiste will be competing with a bunch of future contract guys for training-camp roster spots. The Redskins have brought along just one young offensive lineman in the past five years - Heyer - so I'm not sure you can project too many developing over one offseason.

I doubt this draft class will be quite as deep at tackle as last year's, but at pick 13 there will be some quality on the board. The more people I talk to, the less I expect the team to make any huge splashes in free agency - some in the front office would be stunned if the budget included room for a Jordan Gross (Carolina tackle), for instance, and the draft is the place to do it, anyway.

I wouldn't rule out Michael Oher, the Mississippi senior tackle from Michael Lewis' book "The Blind Side," though. He was passed by some other SEC tackles and has slipped a bit. It's a guess at this point, but his quasi-fame would seem to fit the profile of what the team usually goes for.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 12, 2009; 7:02 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Redskins by Position: Interior Offensive Line

Comments

We definately need to go OLine FIRST.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 12, 2009 7:21 AM | Report abuse

*definitely*

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 12, 2009 7:24 AM | Report abuse

while you are correct that the skins need to upgrade the tackle position asap, you sure do have a asine d-bag way to explain it.

eff you jlc

Posted by: jonthefisherman | January 12, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

I agree Scamp, although I would like to get more picks. I think you have to take T at 13.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:28 AM | Report abuse

I think it depends on the strength of the position in the draft. A good DE might be the way to go in round one, then a OG in three to strengthen the O-Line. They will need to pick up someone in free agency for the OL or DL and a veteran OT makes more sense to me than DE. Especially with Bugel liking veterans.

Posted by: grittar1 | January 12, 2009 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Well again the draft will be determined by what they do in FA's. But OT is the most pressing need.

Without very good DT's a DE is not as good, you need DT's who draw double teams to make your DE's better. The Skins have no DT that consistently draws double teams.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:41 AM | Report abuse

I see people pimping Suggs, the problem with that is Suggs is not a conventional LB, and he is to small to play DE in the Skins scheme. So if you get Suggs what do you do woth him?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:43 AM | Report abuse

So is JLC now predicting that Michael Oher will be a reach at the 13th pick? If so, who in the SEC has passed him?

Posted by: Predator48 | January 12, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

The Skins would seem to agree, since he couldn't beat out Jansen

Maybe I was dreaming this but Heyer was the starter until he got hurt. But I gues the hell with facts.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 12, 2009 7:47 AM | Report abuse

Pred, a few statements from some of the draft sites.

Michael Oher, Ole Miss
Most draftniks point to his poor game against LSU, but that is one game in the season. If he played for Alabama, he'd be the elite prospect Andre Smith is regarded as now. Best footwork in the draft, I'll take Oher anyday.


Eugene Monroe, Virginia
Solid season for Monroe. Don't sleep on him because he could be a late riser.


Russell Okung, Oklahoma State
Okung displays flawless technique, toughness, and exceptional athleticism for the position. I think he would be better off returning for his senior season as a potential top five pick.


Jason Smith, Baylor
Smith reminds me a lot of Sam Baker because of his similar build and consistency in pass protection.


Andre Smith, Alabama
Smith has weight concerns and displays inconsistency in pass protection. I really do not get the case made for him that he is worthy of a top three pick. If you get beat every so often at left tackle in colllege, how are you going to do it in the pros?


5. OFFENSIVE TACKLE

With offensive tackles always at a premium at the top of a draft, NFL teams picking early will be focused keenly on Ole Miss' Michael Oher and Virginia's Eugene Monroe. Oher is a little more physical and powerful at the point of attack. Monroe is more of a finesse guy in the mold of former Virginia left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson. South Carolina's Jamon Meredith, Ohio State's Alex Boone and Baylor's Jason Smith are athletic tackles who should find their way into the late portion of the first round or early stages of the second round. There is good depth in the senior class with players such as Oklahoma's Phil Loadholt and Oregon's Fenuki Tupou. A guy to keep an eye on is Illinois' Xavier Fulton; this is only his second season playing left tackle, but he has some of the best feet in the country and will only get better with time. He's a possible big-time riser at draft time.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Pred,

More rankings,

1. Andre Smith*, Alabama
2. Michael Oher, Mississippi
3. Eugene Monroe, Virginia
4. Eben Britton* Arizona
5. Jason Smith, Baylor
6. Russell Okung* Oklahoma State
7. Alex Boone, Ohio State
8. Phil Loadholt, Oklahoma
9. Jamon Meredith, South Carolina
10. Ciron Black, LSU

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:56 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

ROBISKIE EMERGING FOR THE RAIDERS?
Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2009, 8:03 a.m. EST
As the coaching search in Oakland continues to sputter along, Jay Glazer of FOX reported on Sunday that Falcons receivers coach Terry Robiskie could be nudging closer to consideration.

And though Robiskie is not yet on the official interview list, he reportedly has lined up a staff of assistant coaches who are all willing to join him in Oakland, if he gets the job.

Robiskie, 54, is a 27-year NFL assistant, and he has twice served as an interim head coach, with the Redskins in 2000 and the Browns in 2004.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Flound, I'd take Oher in a NY minute..that cat has MAJOR upside. He's the type of guy you stick at LT/RT and forget about for about 10 years.

I heard something yesterday that for the 5th time in his 10 seasons as coach of the Eagles A. Reid is playing in a NFC Championship game. Thats pretty impressive...he needs to win the big one however..

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I thought the WCO could not work in the East, how is it possible that the Eagles are in the NFC Championship for the 5th time using that offense? I know people will say they have never won the SB, but the argument was that the WCO could not work in cold weather or the big tough NFC East. The SB is played in warm weather so that is not an argument.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Flound,

I thought Smith was the only SEC tackle rated ahead of Oher.

Looks like JLC is once again diving into the pool of skewed factless generalization.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 12, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

smoke and mirrors my friend, smoke and mirrors, thats the only reasonable explanation......

As Redskins fans can we take any solace in knowing that the team went 3-0 against Philly and AZ??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Only if you also take solace that the team went 0-3 against St Louis and Cincinnati and San Francisco.

Posted by: torqued21 | January 12, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

while you are correct that the skins need to upgrade the tackle position asap, you sure do have a asine d-bag way to explain it.

eff you jlc

Posted by: jonthefisherman | January 12, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

"asine"?? Ever hear of spell check?

Go to ESPN's message board and post there. Or better yet, become an Eagles fan. They'd love to have a dummy like you.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | January 12, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

We can take solace in realizing that ANY team can get on a run and make it to the conference championships. No shot in hell Philly and Arizona are actually the best teams in the NFC.

And Flounder, I think Philly's appearance in the NFC championship game has more to do with trotting out the #3 defense in the NFL. In the AFC, you've got #1 vs. #2 in the NFL, and in the NFC we've got #3 vs. a team that forced 9 turnovers in 2 postseason games. Not a coincidence in my book.

For all our problems, at least we have that factor pretty much under control (great defense). Now if only we could get those pesky turnovers to start coming our way...

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I became a pro at the Wii Tennis this weekend, I feel like my arm is going to fall off. I'm at 560 on the baseball it is getting a lot harder.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

psp,

I know there defense is good but there offense is pretty good to, and they do run a WCO more so then the Skins do.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Who is going to replace McDaniels in that vaunted Pats. offense?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Best, most telling stat of the weekend. NFL team with best regular season record this year. Tennessee Titans.
NFL quarterback that was sacked the least. Kerry Collins, who just so happens to play for the same Tennessee Titans. And on top of that, my grandmother has more mobility than Kerry Collins, and she's dead.

Case closed.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | January 12, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

haha, thats great, my kids LOVE tennis, that and bowling, they love it. Did you get 2nd remote yet?? We got it this weekend, it makes it much more enjoyable. I got my butt handed to me all weekend playing baseball. I got throw a 104 mph fastball, I just laughed....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the wco. Did you guys watch the game last night? It looked NOTHING like the skins o. I'll say it again zorny is too dumb to be an offensive coordinator let alone be a head coach. How many times did mcnaab throw the ball less than 5 yards last night? Didn't see any. Meanwhile our genius coach and our future hall of famer qb, jasnos love flames, throw at least 10 pases under 5 yards even when it's 3rd and 8. I didn't see a single qb throw short of the sticks on a 3rd down this and past weekend unless the dude was wide open or it was a screen pass. And please don't complain about the time. You want to have time then make the d scared of something,anything resembling a passing threat.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 12, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Michael Oher is a beast. I am a big SEC fan and catch all the ole miss games I can just to watch Oher. The guy is a beast, and has a great story, I would love the see him in the burgandy and gold. Everyone should do themselves a favor and read the Blind Side, its a great book about life and football.

Posted by: gtstang9t3 | January 12, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Found, here is what the local paper is saying, also, its not just McDaniel, but Dean Pees, as well, the pats could lose Scott Pioli to the Chiefs:

"As for how the Patriots, who are scheduled to play the Broncos in 2009, will fill the void, the rest of the offensive coaching staff consists of running backs coach Ivan Fears, tight ends coach Pete Mangurian, receivers coach Bill O'Brien, and offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia.

Of that group only Mangurian has held the title of offensive coordinator in the NFL, in 2003 with the Falcons. O'Brien was offensive coordinator at Georgia Tech in 2001-02 and at Duke in 2006.

Coach Bill Belichick presumably would prefer to promote from within, because the team isn't likely to alter its system and a coordinator coming from another team likely would take time to adjust to the Patriots' way"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

haha, thats great, my kids LOVE tennis, that and bowling, they love it. Did you get 2nd remote yet?? We got it this weekend, it makes it much more enjoyable. I got my butt handed to me all weekend playing baseball. I got throw a 104 mph fastball, I just laughed....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 8:41 AM |

When I baught mine online I got two controllers and two Numchucks with it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

This guy should not be doing mocks with this lame reasoning for us to take Laurinaitis. We only need a backup RB? WTF

13. WAS: James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State
The Redskins are almost set of offense. They do need a backup RB but they could find it later. On defense is where the needs are greater. They need to come out of New York with an impact defensive player. The Ohio State product clearly fill that bill. Laurinaitis' work ethic, intensity and passion is very similar to Cowboys' LB Zack Thomas. He will be around the ball on almost every play.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

dealer1 I have to admit I'd feel much better if the Skins put an experienced OC on staff as either THE OC, or as an offensive consultant. Having both Zorn and Sherman Smith both of whom are learning on the job may have lead to the stagnation of the offensive playcalling.

Posted by: TWISI | January 12, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Just when I thought that the eagles could do it this year, after watching them beat down the giants, the fans and media up here have started up again. For most of this season everyone has been down on them since they didn't go 15-1. I was starting to think that the karma that usually bites the egales fas in the butt would not be called upon this year. But guess what......all the news channels and radio stations and "die-hards" are already packing their bags for the SB and talking some serious smack. I'll admit, that they will probably kill the Cardinals (by the way, Cardinals in the NFC Chmpionship???? WTF???; 4th sign of the apocalypse), but I think Kurt Warner has much more experience against the blitzes than Eli does, and he has a much better weapon in Fitzgerald. He can just close his eyes and chuck it Larry's way when the Eagles send 9 guys at him. I know the media is relatively the same in other cities, but up here they are freakin unbeleiveable in their fair weathered reporting. Suddenly Andy Reid is a great coach again and Mcnabb is an awesome QB. You should have heard things up here after the Ravens thumped them and Mcnabb was benched. I mean this town wanted them fired and cut right then and there.....(picture 1 million "SportsGuru's"). But now? Oh brother, I hate living up here when the Eagles are in the playoffs. I can only pray that the obnoxious-ness level hits it's usual peak that will bring down the Karmic results of several years past. I think that aside from years when the Skins won the NFC Championship, the greatest memory I have is when Tampa pounded the Eagles in the last game at the Vet to knock them out of the playoffs.....the stunned silence of 65,000 people crying into their beers was awesome. Keep your fingers crossed, and theank the gods that you don't live up here.......

By the way, anyone thank Sproles could outrun Darrell Green (in his prime). That guy looks like the fastest dude I've ever seen in pads......

Go Ravens.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, anyone "think" Sproles could outrun Green?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Laurinaitis?? I just don't see it with this guy. He's a good player, but unless he runs a 4.5, he's late first, early second.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Curry is the only outside LB I would take at 13 that guy is a pure beast. But I still think OT is the pick.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, anyone "think" Sproles could outrun Green?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:08 AM

Green was faster.

Posted by: TWISI | January 12, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

This is exactly what I am talking about. It's a funny read.....

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/sports/football/On-the-Road-to-Victory.html

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Sorry folks, but The Truth is disgusted at this football season, both pro and college.

The Truth is sickened that Florida managed to "win" another "National Championship".

The Truth is disgusted that Donovan McNabb's smug butt is in the NFC Championship against a crappy team and basically has a free ticket to the Superbowl.

The Truth is close to reverting back to third person all the time, that's how upset The Truth is.

The Truth hopes this is the last season of football ever, and that college and pro football will somehow cease to exist.

The Truth is tired of underachieving teams, pro and college.

The Truth accepts the curse of the Washington Redskins as fact.

The Truth is disgusted that Baltimore is in the AFC Championship. The Truth notes that Tennessee freaking GAVE them the game. The Truth hates Ray "Double Homicide" Lewis and has no respect for most of their players.

The Truth hopes his boy Hines Ward takes out two Ravens next week. The Truth notes that the Ravens are a bunch of whiny babies.

The Truth has lost all hope. The Truth blames no one other than RedDMV.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

With only 4 picks and so many needs, I don't think the skins can afford to take a Tackle with their first pick. Heyer will have to be it (I know Jason has never liked him, but he was a starter early in the season before he got hurt).

The immediate need along the O-line is Guard/Center and there is no G/C that justifies a 1st round pick.

I really think the first pick needs to be a LB to replace M. Washington. Maybe they trade down if LB is too much of a reach at 13.

Posted by: HokiePaul | January 12, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Hey JLC what other "quasi fame players" have the redskins gone after recently? I know you're just mad cause they cut your man crushes leigh torrance and marcus mason. Why don't you harp on how they passed on randy moss clone eddie royal. you know less than nothing....d..chebag

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Hope all had a nice weekend. F Larry Michael and Vinny. Oh and draft an OT it makes sense.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"Quasi Fame" players in the last draft.
M Kelly
D Thomas
Colt Brennan (Biggest quasi-fame player in that draft IMHO)


Don't assume quasifame= negative.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The Skins would seem to agree, since he couldn't beat out Jansen, at least in the eyes of some.

If memory serves me correctly, he did beat Jansen out for the starting job and lost his RT job to injury. He finished the season at LT and acquitted himself well.

JLC has never been a Heyer fan and has taken every opportunity to unfairly discredit his playing ability. It's as if any success by Heyer would redeem the FO for getting him for nothing. I'm surprised he hasn't said the FO missed on Jared Gaither in the supplemental draft.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I do agree with the point that I don't expect the team to be huge players in free agency, and I'm of the mind set that this is the correct stance to take. Saw something on PFT that the Bucs are 42 million UNDER the cap, and want to spend it. Given the relative small size of the TOP END players, Suggs, Peppers, Gross, being the top 3 that come to mind, things could get completely out of hand.

I'd rather the team focused on 2nd tier players, Candy(Dallas), Brown(Baltimore) and perhaps a guy like Richie Incognito for some depth.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

The Truth doesn't believe there is someone with the name Richie Icognito.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

The Truth, too, is getting annoyed with JLC's reporting.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Quasi fame = a guy who played one year of div 1 ball?? (devin thomas) give me a break, kelly and thomas were taken becuase they fit the mold of what the redskins felt they needed (a tall WR not 5"10 like Randy Moss clone Eddie Royal). brennan was a late round flyer, give me a break. quit sticking up for the fat toad who always harps on the negative.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"Quasi fame = a guy who played one year of div 1 ball?? (devin thomas) give me a break, kelly and thomas were taken becuase they fit the mold of what the redskins felt they needed (a tall WR not 5"10 like Randy Moss clone Eddie Royal).

Posted by: drewkinnear "


The Truth would like to remind you that according to some Redskins Insider reporters who The Truth shall not name, Eddie Royal is a big possession WR.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

The Truth, too, is getting annoyed with JLC's reporting.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Does the Truth take any comfort that according to one mock draft all we need is a back up running back?

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 12, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Versatility is extremely important in whoever the Skins pick--if they pick a lineman at 13.

That means no bulky 'road-graters' but long athletic guys who can move laterally and recover when beaten by a quick-footed bull-rushing, 'hump-moving' end.

The Eagles beat the jints because their pass blocking lineman pulled, trapped, and drive-blocked: in other words, they could change to whatever the play calling situation was.

It also helped that without Plax, the iggles' D came out in 8 man fronts and dared Manning to throw deep, something Big Ben, Flacco, and Rivers obviously do well and with accuracy.

The iggles didn't use 'smoke and mirrors' to move on. They went against their pass-happy tendencies and ran when they had to and passed the ball because they could.

Micheal Oher is alleged to be able to fit these prerequisites as he has a tackle body, but a guard's athletic ability. His having competed in the SEC is good as the conference is awash with speedy interior linemen.

Skins fans hve to hope the FO uses to common sense and go after the guy they want.

After all, without versitile linemen, we won't have the smoke or mirrors to beat anybody but ourselves.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

hahaha okay no more naming of said denver broncos WR who is the 2nd coming according to certain hack reporter. they should focus on OL with their 1st and 3rd and get lbs after that. maybe sign dansby to replace 53.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I see people pimping Suggs, the problem with that is Suggs is not a conventional LB, and he is to small to play DE in the Skins scheme. So if you get Suggs what do you do woth him?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 7:43 AM | Report abuse

I like Suggs. I don't know about trying to "pimp" him, b/c he'd be the one slapping me around...

Suggs is listed at 6'3''/260. Marcus Washington is listed at 6'3''/244. Not a terribly huge discrepancy. Put Suggs as a strong-side LB. Let him go to the line to rush the QB in passing situations, let him bltiz from time-to-time (like we were doing with M.Washignton).

I just don't buy the "he's a 3-4 defense guy" because Rex Ryan mixes up the defensive looks on the Ravens and they do not play a straight up 3-4.

Besides the guy just balls.

What my point is, and always has been, is that IF we are going to go after someone in FA, I hope it is Suggs; because he is (1) young enough to develop with the rest of the team (unlike the other top FAs which are knocking on the door of 30); and (2) looks like he could fit 2 of our defensive needs (at LB to replace Washington and as a pass-rusher).

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else find it horrifying that Vinnerato must be thinking to themselves that if the Iggles and Cardnills can make it to the SB, then the Redskins are a player or two from being real contenders?

I can see it now, Cerrato trades this years first and next years 2nd, 4th, 5th rounders for -- add big name player here.

Big Name Players they'd trade for...

Darren Sproles
Ocho Cinco
Lance Briggs
?
?

Posted by: Devo2 | January 12, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

truth

I feel your pain.

The Supa Bowl really would be more interesting if the Ravens (old Cleveland Browns, y'all) played the Steelers.

But the only good thing in McNabb's success is that TO has gotten what he deserves.

TO's complaint was the Romo was his homo-hero, and that McNabb, a vomiting choker.

I'd like to ask him who's choking now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, "cool" regulars. Good morning, The Truth.

Posted by: SMACK1 | January 12, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

The Skins would seem to agree, since he couldn't beat out Jansen

++++Maybe I was dreaming this but Heyer was the starter until he got hurt. But I gues the hell with facts.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage+++

Go back to bed. When Heyer returned from his injury, Jansen beat him out. It was in all the papers and on TV. But I guess the hell with facts, right JM 220?

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Lots of OT's will go in the first round.

Good LBs out there.

A couple of decent DTs.

Here's watcha do:

1. Fire Cerrato.

2. Let the new GM decide who to pick among those three positions at #13, depending on who is left. Does it make sense to pass on, say Rey Maualuga or James Laurenitis to take the fifth best OT available? I don't know. The new guy might.

3. Take one of the other position players in third round. As it won't be Vinny picking, there's a decent chance he will play in 2009, too.

4. Amuse self watching to see which recovers from the horrific damage and neglect first, the Redskins due to Cerrato, or the country due to You Know Who.


Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Go back to bed. When Heyer returned from his injury, Jansen beat him out. It was in all the papers and on TV. But I guess the hell with facts, right JM 220?

Posted by: TheCork"

The Truth admits that this is true, but The Truth also says he believs that Jansen was the starter only because the other veterans wanted Jansen to be the starter.

The Truth has a theory that the other OL vets pressured Zorn to start Jansen over Heyer, because The Truth remembers Zorn named Heyer the starter over Jansen.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

The Truth would take Josh McDaniel(s?) over Jim Zorn any day of the week and twice and twice on Sundays.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't rule out Michael Oher, the Mississippi senior tackle from Michael Lewis' book "The Blind Side," though. He was passed by some other SEC tackles and has slipped a bit. It's a guess at this point, but his quasi-fame would seem to fit the profile of what the team usually goes for."

As several of you have noted, the last sentence in this paragraph is simply ridiculous - but typical JLC.


Posted by: Lisa_R | January 12, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

If that is true about the Vets pushing Zorn to start Jansen, and he did it then I hope this is his last year. You never let the inmates run the asylum.

I to would take McDaniels over Zorn, I would also take Pioli he is still out there.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

i say we trade down to the 20's and pick up another 2nd rounder....we pick up Michael Oher (Tackle) if available, if not we pick up Max Unger (Center). In the second round we pick up Clint Sintim (OLB)

I duno where Oher is projected but if we cannot get him by trading down then i would suggest signing either Jordan Gross (T) or Jovan Haye (DT)

Posted by: mehtadman87 | January 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

The eagles are beatable, after all who didnt beat them at least once before??

Posted by: Dfan | January 12, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Trust me Lisa if we draft Oher it will be because he is one of the best T's in the draft, not because he was in some book that maybe 10 people read.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Arizona's advancement to Sunday's NFC Championship Game means that only three continuous franchises have failed to reach a conference title matchup over the last 17 years. Those three misfits are longtime bumblers Cincinnati and Detroit, plus your beloved Washington Redskins.

Cleveland and Houston also haven't gotten that far since the Redskins last reached a conference championship in January 1992, but those cities didn't have NFL representation from 1996-98 and 1997-2001, respectively.

The Bengals and the Lions: not exactly high-class company to be keeping for Team Mediocrity.

From the Times

wow

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I dont understand all this Center and Guard talk with out first two picks,

We need a stud DT and DE with our first two picks. you can pick up youth and replacements for the o-line later in the draft, FA, or even the supplemental draft.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 12, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I duno where Oher is projected but if we cannot get him by trading down then i would suggest signing either Jordan Gross (T) or Jovan Haye (DT)

Posted by: mehtadman87 | January 12, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Most big name free agents are signed long before the draft happens

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Lisa JLC is just giving himself and I told you so if we draft Oher and it doesn't work out.

mehtad,

If you trade down you will not get Oher, but I do like the trade down option there are plenty of good O-Linemen in this draft.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

The Skins would seem to agree, since he couldn't beat out Jansen, at least in the eyes of some.

If memory serves me correctly, he did beat Jansen out for the starting job and lost his RT job to injury. He finished the season at LT and acquitted himself well.

JLC has never been a Heyer fan and has taken every opportunity to unfairly discredit his playing ability. It's as if any success by Heyer would redeem the FO for getting him for nothing. I'm surprised he hasn't said the FO missed on Jared Gaither in the supplemental draft.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I agree. To say Heyer cannot be a starting RT is absurd, given the limited body of work. He has shown a lot of promise, along with a substantial learning curve. What starting NFler not named Tom Brady does this not apply to?

That said, I still endorse drafting an OT if we can get one of the top 4-5...competition is a great thing and would make Heyer better (and draft pick), regardless of whether who beats out whom to start.

If Oher is available, I'd love to get him but doubt he will be...most mock drafts still have him top 10...I realize a mock draft and a buck will get you a cup of cheap coffee.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Heyer v. Jansen...?

No.

The draft should render the Redskins a replacement for soon to be 'coach' Jansen.

This season's real battle is Heyer v. Samuels.

Heyer's length and foot movement is better suited to the left side of the o-line.

Samuels is in his final years and this competition, if acted on now, sets the Skins up in one of two ways: they'll have a replacement for Samuels or know that in 2010, they'll have to draft a starting left tackle.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I would be siced if we drafted Oher. And don't think it would be a splash move but Flounder this statement:

"not because he was in some book that maybe 10 people read."

is ridiculous. The book was very popular and excellent and written by maybe the best sportswriter going, Michael Lewis. His book "Money Ball" might be one of the most influential sports books of the last 50 years.

Bash away on Janso, but come correct. Oher and the book were high profile. At least amongst us readers...I kid I kid...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 12, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

The Truth would like to remind Flounder that his theory that the vets pressued Zorn into starting Jansen is just The Truth's own theory.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

CL,

Come on dude you should know I was being sarcastic but I wanted to drive home my point. I should have said a book that Danny and Vinny have never read.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I dont understand all this Center and Guard talk with out first two picks,

We need a stud DT and DE with our first two picks. you can pick up youth and replacements for the o-line later in the draft, FA, or even the supplemental draft.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 12, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I think everyone agrees we need help on D-line too. But at the end of the day, we had the 4th ranked defense and an offense ranked in the bottom third. I say draft a D-lineman in the 3rd round and get a stud OT in the first. Don't get me wrong, if Brian Orakapo is available at 13, I'd be perfectly happy taking him...sadly he'll likely be gone.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

The Truth would like to remind Flounder that his theory that the vets pressued Zorn into starting Jansen is just The Truth's own theory.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:02 AM |

No doubt, but I'm just saying if it did happen Zorn is a punk and needs to go.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I thought it was Bugs who pushed JJ on Zorn due to run game problems

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"I should have said a book that Danny and Vinny have never read."

Now that I agree with!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 12, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed what the 1st year coach and rookie QB have done for the Ravens? Maybe having a sound organizational structure has something to do with this, and until the Skins have a real organization, you can expect repeats of the past 10 years. Do I expect Snyder to get a clue??........not until pigs fly.

Posted by: Ireland2 | January 12, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

The Truth needs to read both Moneyball and The Blind Side.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

I will take a story from the Pats, when Brady stepped in for Bledsoe he played OK but wasn't great, then when Bledsoe came back all the players and the coaching staff wanted him back in there, but Belichic came into the locker room and said it's Brady for the rest of the season.

They won the SB that year, the head coach needs to go with what he wants after all he is the one taking all the blame.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

More I think about it, the more I think we should trade down. Using the 13 pick assumes Vincenzo can identify an impact player in the middle of Round one. His track record is at best marginal in that regard. If we could move down to the 20-25 range and pick up a 2nd round pick, I think we have to do it. Gives us two shots at drafting an impact player and if the Blind Squirrel theory is enacted as I'm hoping, we may even draft two good players with these picks. Hey, a boy can dream...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Good analysis! I think the Skins will take either a RT or a SLB with the #13th pick. This draft is deep in those positions. I also agree that Jansen should be retained as a backup G/T; replacing Fabini. One wild card is how Thomas responds to the bulging disk surgery. It may make RG a higher priority if he has to go on IR or retire next year.

It would not surprise me if the Skins pick up a veteran RT (e.g. Jon Stinchcomb) and trade back for a low 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Potentially, they could pick up two decent players (say at OG, OC, G/C, DT, or OLB) with those selections.

Posted by: siris | January 12, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I like the OTs in the draft. Yet if the top three are taken before 13, I would be upset if we take the next best just because that is the position we most need.

I would hope the Redskins, at that likely scenario (top 3 linemen taken before 13), trade down into the 20s and pick up and additional 2nd round pick. If the top 5 lineman have already been taken at that point, they should draft out of the pool of best defensive players (the two top MLBs, the top DT, two top DEs). If all of those players are gone, then we should trade out of the 1st round all together (pick up a 1st next year and a 3rd and 4th this year).

I agree with most of you that the trenches are where we should build the Redskins. But I think we should be very selective who we go after in FA, draft, and trades, if we can't get our guy, who is going to help us, in our system, then he's not going to help much.

I don't think we should get any of the top FAs that are being floated around on this blog (Peppers, Gross, Haynesworth, Suggs). They seem to me like high priced bandaids, and I suspect that at least two (Peppers and Suggs) will be franchised.

I disagree with the assumption that we should go after Canty and others because of their body size. If Canty is worth anything Jones will fight us for him, if he's not, then he'll be another guy who we'll grossly overpaid (ex. Lloyd, Carter, Archelta, Deon Sanders, etc...) it's my understanding the guy is good against the run, but not good against the pass (which is why he's never in the game in the second half and during passing downs).

Some other people have floated around a number of guards and tackles (some of which do not start) from teams that are in the top 5 in sacks allowed, I ask them, why would we want that for the Redskins?

This year, lets just be smart, lets wait until the senior bowl and combine to rate the top players; select the guys who fit our system in FA, draft, and trades. We should let the guys we drafted last year develop into quality players. Let Zorn develop into a quality coach. We may not make the playoffs next year, but the owners/coaches that are patient are the ones that are contenders for years. I just don't want the Redskins to make the playoffs for the sake of making the playoffs, I want us to be Superbowl contenders for years!

Posted by: nagoose | January 12, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Flound, check out the write up on cat named Javorski Lane, out of Tex A&M, I think. Goes 6', 280, and runs a 4.7, carried the ball a during college. Not saying burn a draft pick on this guy, but as an UDFA, I'd snatch him up.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The Truth finds it interesting how everyone just says "Trade back and get a late first and a second rounder" or "Trade back and get two second rounders".

The Truth wants to know what team has offered a "late first and a second rounder" or "two second rounders" for our #13 pick?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I became a pro at the Wii Tennis this weekend, I feel like my arm is going to fall off. I'm at 560 on the baseball it is getting a lot harder.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 8:35 AM

To all the grown up Wii newbs who are tired of getting handled by their kids, I suggest going through the training modules for Wii sports. Click on the dumbbell icon on the game select screen.

The modules are sorta like mini-games that help you learn the different aspects of the larger games like home run hitting, tennis ball volleying, even working the bag for boxing.

These games are actually pretty fun in their own right. I've played them more this weekend, than the main games themselves.

My favorite is the power bowling module where you bowl 10 frames and an extra row of pins is added for each frame. So you start at 10 pins and eventually ended up at 91 pins.

BTW If you become a pro at bowling, you get a nice shiny new ball to roll with.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 12, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Very good post nagoose. Concur, per my previous post, that we should probably trade down. Especially if, as you said, the top OT's and DE's are gone.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Birth Date February 4, 1987
Birth Place LUFKIN, TX
Height 6-0
Weight 285 lbs.
Age 21
Class Senior

YEAR TEAM ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2005 A&M 119 595 5.0 39 9 0 0 0
2006 A&M 166 725 4.4 25 19 0 0 0
2007 A&M 169 780 4.6 31 16 0 0 0
2008 A&M 35 93 2.7 12 5 0 0 0
Receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2005 A&M 3 48 16.0 42 0 0 0 0
2006 A&M 7 82 11.7 32 0 0 0 0
2007 A&M 12 115 9.6 22 1 0 0 0
2008 A&M 4 26 6.5 13 0 0 0 0

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Name: Jorvorskie Lane
College: Texas A&M Number: 11
Height: 6-0 Weight: 278
Position: FB Pos2: RB
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2009
40 Time: 4.73 40 Low: 4.64 40 High: 4.85


Draft Scout Snapshot: DS Rating on 8/24/08: #2 FB, #151/750 Overall, Projected Rnd: 5
2008 Preseason: Held out of a spring scrimmage with neck and head issues...2007: 13 GP; 9 GS; Rush: 169-780-4.6-16; Pass: 3-1-33.3-49-0-0; Rec: 12-115-9.6-1; 1 Sol-1 TT; Productive junior campaign cemented his status as one of the elite big backs in the nation … rushed 169 times for 780 yards … averaged an impressive 4.6 yards per carry … scored a Big 12 best 16 rushing touchdowns … tied Texas A&M career records for both rushing touchdowns (44) and total touchdowns (45) … also caught 12 passes for 115 yards … named honorable mention All- Big 12 by the conference coaches … posted four 100-plus yard rushing games... 2006: 13 GP; 10 GS; Rush: 166-725-4.4-19; Rec: 7-82-11.7-0; First-team All-Big 12 selection at running back. The nation's top short yardage/goal line running back scored a school record 19 rushing touchdowns … his 114 points led the Big 12 and rank No. 6 nationally … had five multi-touchdown games, including a career high four TDs against Louisiana-Lafayette … had at least one touchdown in the first 11 games of 2006 … rushed for 725 yards on 166 carries … started 10 games... 2005: 10 GP; 4 GS; Rush: 119-595-5-9; Rec: 3-48-16-0; Rushed for 595 yards and nine touchdowns on 119 carries while seeing action in 10 of 11 games … started four games … hit the 100-yard mark two times, including a season-best 139 yards (on 22 carries) against Oklahoma State.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Truth,
Obviously no team has asked to trade with us at this point, while the season is still going on. There are several teams without a GM and head coach. The college season just ended. There is still the senior bowl and combine, and nobody has come up with a comprehensive plan for their team.
However, come draft day, I can promise you there will be trades. I think last year there were about five trades in the first round alone. The Redskins have the tendency to trade a lot on draft day, generally we trade down; and it may be a smart move if our guys have already been taken since Danny/Vinny traded most of ours away and we have clear needs at (OT, LB, and Dline; not to mention depth we'll need depth at certain positions).

Posted by: nagoose | January 12, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Pred,

My kids were kicking my a$$ until I spent some late nights this weekend getting up to speed, now Dad is unbeatable. I'm working on Pro level for Baseball then I will hit Bowling, screw the Boxing I almost fainted after Boxing my Daughter twice.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

The Truth finds it interesting how everyone just says "Trade back and get a late first and a second rounder" or "Trade back and get two second rounders".

The Truth wants to know what team has offered a "late first and a second rounder" or "two second rounders" for our #13 pick?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to remind our feisty, thrid-person compadre that the NFL drat is held in late April and that not a lot of draft picks are usually traded in early January.

And while I cannot off the top of my head cite past examples, the draft "points" system that most teams use would make this a very viable and not unusual scenario (i.e., 13th overall for a late 1st and late 2nd)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

pred, I love the training. My personal fav is the HR Derby, but some of the bowling ones are pretty good as well.

nag, regarding this statement:

"Some other people have floated around a number of guards and tackles (some of which do not start) from teams that are in the top 5 in sacks allowed, I ask them, why would we want that for the Redskins"

which players did this apply to....??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

which players did this apply to....??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 11:33 AM |

Greg,

Come on you know that will be like asking your kids who broke that lamp? Um Um Um Um,
blank look on there face, I don't know.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I almost fainted after Boxing my Daughter twice.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

This is statement contains a compelling and unprecedented combination of amusement and disgrace. I am laughing yet also shaking my head at the same time.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Shut up you tree hole bung hole. Scrambelled brains. Its what I've been saying all along, isn't it? What happened to Darren Sproles who is going home?

Friggin' idiot from an alternative trailer park.

"*definitely*

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 12, 2009 7:24 AM | Report abuse"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Just when I thought that the eagles could do it this year, after watching them beat down the giants, the fans and media up here have started up again. For most of this season everyone has been down on them since they didn't go 15-1. I was starting to think that the karma that usually bites the egales fas in the butt would not be called upon this year. But guess what......all the news channels and radio stations and "die-hards" are already packing their bags for the SB and talking some serious smack. I'll admit, that they will probably kill the Cardinals (by the way, Cardinals in the NFC Chmpionship???? WTF???; 4th sign of the apocalypse), but I think Kurt Warner has much more experience against the blitzes than Eli does, and he has a much better weapon in Fitzgerald. He can just close his eyes and chuck it Larry's way when the Eagles send 9 guys at him. I know the media is relatively the same in other cities, but up here they are freakin unbeleiveable in their fair weathered reporting. Suddenly Andy Reid is a great coach again and Mcnabb is an awesome QB. You should have heard things up here after the Ravens thumped them and Mcnabb was benched. I mean this town wanted them fired and cut right then and there.....(picture 1 million "SportsGuru's"). But now? Oh brother, I hate living up here when the Eagles are in the playoffs. I can only pray that the obnoxious-ness level hits it's usual peak that will bring down the Karmic results of several years past. I think that aside from years when the Skins won the NFC Championship, the greatest memory I have is when Tampa pounded the Eagles in the last game at the Vet to knock them out of the playoffs.....the stunned silence of 65,000 people crying into their beers was awesome. Keep your fingers crossed, and theank the gods that you don't live up here.......

i feel your pain as a skins fan trapped in philly for the last six years. i used to hate dallas most, but it's clearly now the eagles i hate most and it's all because of the fans, not to mention that i hate how dirty players from the eagles, like dawlkins, who always leads with his head, are deified up here. anyway, i hope the eagles and flyers burn.

skins 75 (trapped in philly)

Posted by: namichal1029 | January 12, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Bottom line because they failed to address this last year. And used the picks this year on Jason Taylor (who may yet serve but will he be worth those picks?).

They almost have to use 3 or even 4 on offensive linemen. He still has yet to discuss the GUARD and CENTER positions. And then there's kicker. With a good kicker the Skins may be where the Eagles are right now.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I almost fainted after Boxing my Daughter twice.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

This is statement contains a compelling and unprecedented combination of amusement and disgrace. I am laughing yet also shaking my head at the same time.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:38 AM |

Notorious,

I'm a video game player from the past sit on you a$$ and push buttons.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

It will probably be Monroe or Britton. With more picks they can pick more players.

CORRECTION to this article. SAM BAKER WAS THE starting left tackle for the Atlanta Falcons toward the end of this season.

Again, as one can see, this pick should definitely yield a starter. Hopefully a left tackle because that above all else is what they need. Followed by more adaptable tackle/guard types.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

What's up ya'll. This is my first time writing on this post. I have been reading it for quite some time but I am usually too angry during the regular season to chime in. With that being said, I wanted to run something by everyone here. IMHO, O Line and D Line are our two biggest areas of need. The best DT in the game is a free agent this offseason (Fat Albert in Tenn). From everything I have read, we can save a considerable amount of money this year by cutting some of our older and oft injured guys (#53 and #24)on D. We should spend as much as necessary to get Haynesworth here. With him alone, we can survive another season or two with A. Carter and J. Taylor. He will also earn Fletcher his first pro bowl, guaranteed. Next, we take a Tackle in the draft as soon as possible. This would allow us to take a G/C or a LB with the 3rd round pick. Sounds like a winning plan to me. I wanted to see what everyone here thought???

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,
I cannot recall anyone right now (a couple were on Jax., another was on Pittsburgh), I do not remember who posted it, but the guys I refer to have been floated around for the last week or so. I checked up on the them, and that's the way I feel about some of the OT/OG prospects that are FAs this year...

My preference would be to let Rhino start at LG this year (unless the people who drafted him last year want to admit he's a terrible mistake)... If we're able to select a top three OT at 13, I think we make him a LT, put Rhino at LG, keep Rabach at C, Thomas at RG, and move Samuels to RT... I'm sure we'll give up a few sacks on the left side, but at least our youngsters will learn and learn on the cheap rather than have guys who have already been given a chance to learn, learn on the expensive (if you get my drift)... also with the formation above, we might actually be able to run on the right side next year...

Otherwise, if we take a tackle in the bottom of the 1st or in the 2nd (according to my plan), then we should keep Samuels as a LT and have the rookie play RT. And draft a LT in 2010... The fact of the matter is, we're going to need at least two in the next couple of years, we should probably draft them (because they'd be cheaper that way).

Posted by: nagoose | January 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

bnc,

Welcome I think you are going to get some negative feedback on Haynesworth, because of the problems with big time FA's in the past.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Note to the TRUTH: McNabb is not smugg and if he was smugg he's got every right to be,from being benched by his fat azz father of two jailbird's head coach to the always unappreciative, mostly racist fan's McNabb has always been a class act and truth(pardon the pun)be told he's never gotten the credit he deserve's from the Philly faithfull I'd love to see him go back to his hometown and play for "Da Bears" and let those frontrunning Filly fans suffer!

Posted by: dargregmag | January 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Go back to bed. When Heyer returned from his injury, Jansen beat him out. It was in all the papers and on TV. But I guess the hell with facts, right JM 220?

How did Jansen "beat him out"? The coach stuck with Jansen once Heyer had recovered. There was no competition. NOw when there was competition for the RT spot, i.e. training camp, Heyer won the starting job. But I guess you missed that fact when it was in all the papers and on TV.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I almost fainted after Boxing my Daughter twice.

Posted by: Flounder21


The boxing is equivalent to your old button-mashing-fighting games. Except that instead of mashing buttons, you're punching as fast as you can without any rhyme or reason.

Next to Wii tennis, its the best dam cardio workout you can get, short of Wii fitness of course.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 12, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

learn,

You know Corky by now he says what ever makes the FO's look bad, and he defends his boss JLC no matter what he says.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Otherwise, if we take a tackle in the bottom of the 1st or in the 2nd (according to my plan), then we should keep Samuels as a LT and have the rookie play RT. And draft a LT in 2010... The fact of the matter is, we're going to need at least two in the next couple of years, we should probably draft them (because they'd be cheaper that way).

Posted by: nagoose | January 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

You dont replaced Samuels with a rookie and move him to RT. And if they trade back and pick a T late in the first, then that rookie is automatically only fit to play RT? OMG... you have to be kidding...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 12, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Shout outs to TheTruth11 reverting back to the 3rd person. I was one of the few that actually dug that style in the beginning... you only became the present day pain-in-the-ass you are when the board started griping about how annoying you were in 3rd person. You then listened to them and began to post (in 1st person?) like everyone else. Which again validates my point about how weak you truly are. But that's neither here, nor there...

How cool is it that the cards' are playing in the NFC title game? *BIG f'n NOT!!!!* But I do like to see teams that have been bottom feeders for so long actually get a chance to shine. Now for we'll have to listen to cards' fans and Eagles fans discusss which team deserves to go the super bowl more, because you know, most of the d-bag Philly fans feel they're entitled to every damn 'ship in sports!

I can't wait to see the Ravens/Steelers game! I am a fan of both teams style of play. I like both defenses... I think I'll root for the Steelers solely because of Mike Tomlin (FIRE ZORN and buy out Tomlin's contract with the Steelers, j/k), but I won't be upset if the Ravens win.
I really don't understand 'skins fans hating on the Ravens.

With the way the Cardinal's defense has been playing lately (Did I just type that?) I don't see how you can downplay this team. I give them as much of a chance as Philly going to the SB. And please DO NOT cite the T'giving game as a reason the Eagles will win. They're in a different season now.

The Panthers should've DUMPED Delhomme the day after that game, his B-day be damned, he stunk up the joint terribly and at 34 should not be welcomed back. Who do they have under contract that we could get from them; because they need a QB - maybe they can have 17 "black" (1/2 j/k).

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

To the folks encouraging draft creativity from the present Skins front office:

....are you serious...?

....do you really want the clowns who've proven they can't jungle to pick you another ball?

Yes: moving up or down or trading value for picks is a great idea...for a team with a competent FO.

If the FO doesn't change, let's hope they keep things simple.

Let's just hope they take the basic route and use the four picks they have wisely.

The draft should be: rt, wlb, c, rg or something like that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

VABeach...
I agree, you can draft a LT and a RT whenever... My main point is that we will need two tackles in the near future (most people on this blog will at least conceed that Samuels has some starting time left in his tank, and that Jansen appears close to empty). I guess I was insinuating that if you draft higher, then draft a LT not a RT... I think everyone can agree at LTs are a premium because they block the QBs backside. So if we draft a T at 13... draft a LT, and move Samuels to RT... if we pick later, then draft a RT and keep Samuels at LT... next year look to fill whichever tackle spot we don't draft...

Posted by: nagoose | January 12, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Hard to understand why people are advocating that the Skins all-pro left tackle Chris Samuels should be moved out of position to right tackle and replaced by an unproven rookie. This is idiotic...

If your right tackle not performing at a high level, then replace him with a right tackle. The Skins were lucky that Heyer played okay at right tackle -- he's a left tackle who had never even attempted to play right tackle before last year.

It's reasonable to assume the Skins could sign a veteran free agent RT and draft an OT giving him a few years to learn both positions. However, it's highly doubtful they could find a rookie RT who could beat out both Jansen and Heyer, with a selection lower than the 13th pick.

Posted by: siris | January 12, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I almost fainted after Boxing my Daughter twice.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

This is statement contains a compelling and unprecedented combination of amusement and disgrace. I am laughing yet also shaking my head at the same time.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:38 AM |

Notorious,

I'm a video game player from the past sit on you a$$ and push buttons.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Just messing with ya...it was just funny to read. I know it's damn tough, I've played.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"How did Jansen "beat him out"? The coach stuck with Jansen once Heyer had recovered. There was no competition. NOw when there was competition for the RT spot, i.e. training camp, Heyer won the starting job. But I guess you missed that fact when it was in all the papers and on TV.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Jansen started, what, 13 games this year? How many did Heyer start?

Put whatever spin, blame, or BS you want on it, but Corky's right on this one. Heyer was a 2nd stringer behind Jon Jansen this season. The semantics people go through in order to "defend" their position is quite impressive.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

REPORT: DUNGY IS DONE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2009, 11:03 a.m. EST
Jay Glazer of FOXSports.com reports that Colts coach Tony Dungy is informing coworkers that he has decided to retire.

Per Glazer, Dungy is making the rounds at the team’s complex, saying his good-byes, and informing all concerned that the transition should be smooth for his successor, Jim Caldwell.

Though crazier things that Dungy changing his mind between now and 5:00 p.m. EST have happened, it looks like Dungy is calling it quits.

And he has said in recent interviews that, once he’s done, he’s not coming back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

PACMAN MIGHT HAVE COOKED HIS GOOSE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2009, 12:11 p.m. EST
By admitting to ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith over the weekend that his affinity for “scrip clubs,” which extended at least two months before the imposition of a one-year suspension in April 2007, resulted from a drinking problem that he had at the time, free-agent cornerback Pacman Jones might have given the league enough ammunition to banish him for life.

It all comes down whether the NFL imposed on Jones a requirement that he avoid alcohol during his one-year suspension.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told us via e-mail that the specific conditions were confidential. But Aiello pointed out that, when the league announced the suspension on April 10, “[W]e said he must fully cooperate with all required counseling, education, and treatment assigned under league or court-ordered programs and must adhere to the restrictions on his activities that have been agreed to by he and the Titans.”

So if those terms included staying away from alcohol, the question of whether he instigated at shooting at an Atlanta-area “scrip club” in June 2007 could be irrelevant to the question of whether he has already given the league enough rope to hang him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Guys, there is a glaring problem with all of our draft analyses. We are thinking about what our team needs in order to be built into a contender.

As we all recall, Vinny's strategy is to blindly take "best talent available".

...which means we're going to end up with Jermaine Gresham or someone like that.

Then when Vinny has to face the music in public for drafting another TE, he can point the finger at "the board" for telling him who to take.

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Jansen started, what, 13 games this year? How many did Heyer start?

Put whatever spin, blame, or BS you want on it, but Corky's right on this one. Heyer was a 2nd stringer behind Jon Jansen this season. The semantics people go through in order to "defend" their position is quite impressive.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 12:19 PM |

psp,

I hate arguing with you but Corky is not right, who started the first game when neither player was injured? Heyer Who started until he got hurt and was unable to play? Heyer. Now because they stayed with Jansen after Heyer was OK does not mean he beat him out, it just means they thought there was no reason to make a change because things were going good.

Then when things were going bad and Jansen was getting picked up and carried to the QB, they were to stubborn to put the better player Heyer back in there.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"...but his quasi-fame would seem to fit the profile of what the team usually goes for."

As several of you have noted, the last sentence in this paragraph is simply ridiculous - but typical JLC.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 12, 2009 10:44 AM

How is this ridiculous? The 'skins do not put dudes on the line that has mass to them. Heyer and the new dude, Devin Clark, are the only ones that are 320 or larger. Heyer's shortcomings have been discussed routinely here, and the guy Devin is a rookie...

LOL... Kendall is only 292... WTF? I know he played okay, but the guy can and was exposed in the running game. You rarely seen his man beat him for a sack, he actually was one of the few that could give JC adequate time, when JC wasn't stuck on stupid.

I want space-eating, duffle-bag belly maulers!

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"they needed to bring in a younger lineman or two during the second half of the season and did not. That was a surprise to many around Redskins Park"

Where exactly do you get a starting quality lineman mid-season?
That being said I agree that drafting an OT with the 13th pick should probably be the way to go with DL or OLB being the other options if an OT isn't there.

Posted by: skinswest | January 12, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

bnc211, welcome aboard this dysfunctional boat. I think you'll find lots of passion, alarming amounts of grown man anger, a little love, and quite a few good thoughts about our beloved Skins.

I think it's a good thought. But as Flounder said, SKins fans are reticent to support this due to the myriad of F/A busts in the past. On one hand, he might be the best DT today. On the other, the cynics among us should at least ask the question - will he continue to ball like that after he gets $30 million in guranteed money? I hope so (if we sign him; I hope he gets fat and happy if he goes elsewhere) but the issue should at least be vetted.

I agree on getting an OT in first round IF one of the top 4 (Andre Smith, Oher, Monroe, Justin Smith)is available..otherwise I'd trade down, assuming we can get late 1st/2ns round picks.

Good to have you in the mix.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Jansen started, what, 13 games this year? How many did Heyer start?

Put whatever spin, blame, or BS you want on it, but Corky's right on this one. Heyer was a 2nd stringer behind Jon Jansen this season. The semantics people go through in order to "defend" their position is quite impressive.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 12:19 PM |

The question is what prompted Zorn to stick with Jansen after Heyer came back from injury. I think this had everything to do with the fact that the running game was the only part of the offense working, and they preferred Jansen as a run-blocker.

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Heyer won the starting spot in preseason, yes. Jansen, however, won the starting spot back in the regular season. This cannot be argued. When both were healthy, Jansen started more games than Heyer. I didn't agree with it, but that's the reality. Heyer did not win the starting spot back that he lost due to injury.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

As we all recall, Vinny's strategy is to blindly take "best talent available".

...which means we're going to end up with Jermaine Gresham or someone like that.

Then when Vinny has to face the music in public for drafting another TE, he can point the finger at "the board" for telling him who to take.

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm laughing because it's true; Homer Simpson - "It's only funny cause it's true!"

I'm crying because it's...true. Notorious LMG - "It makes me cry on my pillow because it's true"

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

F Pacman, to quote Wilbon, he "can leave now" and should just "go away"...

Dungy, say what you will about the man and his religious beliefs, IS a great coach, was an absolute trendsetter, one of the first "player's coaches", and a great ambassador to the NFL.

He unlike, that d-bag, Adam "Pacman" Jones, will be missed in the league. How funny is it that they both appear to be finished with football about at the same time; if anyone could've steered Pacman right, I believe it could've been Dungy.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Look out Skins' Fans! Since Cerrato, Zorn, and Campbell are on the job training; we would have agonizing years of mediocrity. Thank God we have the Ravens close by to root for.

Posted by: iamdawalrus | January 12, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

To the folks encouraging draft creativity from the present Skins front office:

....are you serious...?

....do you really want the clowns who've proven they can't jungle to pick you another ball?

Yes: moving up or down or trading value for picks is a great idea...for a team with a competent FO.

If the FO doesn't change, let's hope they keep things simple.

Let's just hope they take the basic route and use the four picks they have wisely.

The draft should be: rt, wlb, c, rg or something like that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse


Couldn't agree more, with Vinny at the helm it will always be fill needs with trades and free agents and draft what his idea of the best available talent is. I say stay as is and just draft 4 players, that way he doesn't have a chance to screw up too badly, with say like 10 picks of WRs and TEs.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

siris

Agreed about the low quality of the Samuels abuse.

The guy was drafted with Arrington and is here: where's Arrington?

Heyer is Samuels' replacement, not Jansen.

To me, Samuels was better with Dockery than Kendall had Pete's lack of agility and age caused teams to attack the space between the two.

That's where the pass protection problems were most evident-- Jansen too was out-athletized (is that, like 'scrip clubs' a word?)-- multiple times, but Thomas played well next to him.

Leave Samuels alone.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Heyer won the starting spot in preseason, yes. Jansen, however, won the starting spot back in the regular season. This cannot be argued. When both were healthy, Jansen started more games than Heyer. I didn't agree with it, but that's the reality. Heyer did not win the starting spot back that he lost due to injury.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 12:35

psp,

I think he was never givin the chance, as we all saw Zorn is very stubborn, he would not remove ARE from punt returns, he kept putting Thrash out there every week.

Zorn needs to get over himself and do what is best for the team or next year he will be a QB coach somewhere.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

F the Ravens and their solid stable franchise filled with competent talent evaluators and football personnel.

F' em!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 12, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

With the economic downturn , I'd expect many underachieving teams at the top of the order would be trying to trade their 1st rounder so as not to sign an unproven to a huge contract..jus' sayin..If there is a potential Reggie White or Gene Upshaw it might be worth it..

Posted by: frak | January 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"Note to the TRUTH: McNabb is not smugg and if he was smugg he's got every right to be,from being benched by his fat azz father of two jailbird's head coach to the always unappreciative, mostly racist fan's McNabb has always been a class act and truth(pardon the pun)be told he's never gotten the credit he deserve's from the Philly faithfull I'd love to see him go back to his hometown and play for "Da Bears" and let those frontrunning Filly fans suffer!

Posted by: dargregmag "

I had no beef with McNabb until after we beat the Eagles twice this year and he said, after BOTH losses, that they were a better team.

MAYBE the first time, but then to say it again after going 0-2 against us? Nope.

And I quit reading when I saw "racist" in there. Gimme a break.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

F Pacman, to quote Wilbon, he "can leave now" and should just "go away"...

Take physic, pomp.

Posted by: SMACK1 | January 12, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

The Truth would like to announce that The Truth is officially declaring football season OVER. The Truth says there is no champion in the NFL this year and to wait until next year.

The Truth announces that it is now basketball season.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

“MYSTERY CANDIDATE” FOR RAMS JOB
Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2009, 12:32 p.m. EST
As the St. Louis Rams continue to ponder whether to make interim coach Jim Haslett the non-interim coach or to hire one of various other candidates, Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that there’s a mystery candidate for the job.

Thomas cites league sources in support of the assertion that an unnamed candidate has emerged.

Our guess? It’s possibly a college coach who wants to keep his name out of the newspapers for fear of impacing his potential recruiting class, which will (or, as the case may be, won’t) be signing letters of intent early next month.

The most obvious choice would be Stanford coach Jim Harbaugh, who’s star undoubtedly is rising by virtue of his brother’s success as the first-year head coach of the Ravens.

Reinforcing this possibility is that the Jets reportedly interviewed Harbaugh last week, in a clandestine manner that wasn’t sufficiently kept quiet by either Harbaugh or the Jets. (Since Harbaugh has no reason to blab, our money is on someone with the Jets who doesn’t want Harbaugh to get the job blabbing about the interview in order to keep Harbaugh away.)

Whether it’s Harbaugh or someone else, there’s no obvious reason for a non-college coach to keep his interest in the job quiet — and there’s every reason for a college coach to do so.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Thank God we have the Ravens close by to root for.

Posted by: iamdawalrus | January 12, 2009 12:37 PM

The above statement is base d-baggery (d-baggery in its purest form).

I like the defense of the Ravens (Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Suggs) and the confidence of Joe Flacco - he'll throw the ball downfield, but watching that game on Saturday, he has receivers (Mason, Clayton, and Heap, that will go and get the ball out the air.

Now is this Flacco putting it in the right spot or is this his receivers determination to catch the ball no matter what - especially Derrick Mason.

Maybe it isn't Campbell at all, maybe him and Zorn don't trust the receivers enough to go and snatch the ball away from defenders, hence JC's lack of shots in "coverage".

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, we need help on both O & D lines.
An immediate-impact player, however, is urgently needed on the D line. I'd say take a big, fast, strong, athletic defensive-end.
O line, linebackers, other d-line, running back can come with other picks and/or FA's.
With Snyder/Cerrato picking, however, who knows what we'll end up with. I still cringe in disbelief when thinking about last year's picks. Unforgettable is, after selecting tall wide-outs because they can out-leap short defenders, Cerrato picks a 5-8 corner !!!!
Oh well...we can always hope, eh?

Posted by: al852 | January 12, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Does anybody else think it would be pretty easy and a lot cheaper to flip to a 3-4 with our personnel and get pressure that way than overpaying for Peppers or being risky with draft a DE at #13?

Bart Scott, Suggs, Dansby, and several other quality linebackers will be free agents and typically linebackers are cheaper than premier Dends. Plus, linebackers are the core of your special teams units so adding depth there would be great. Our line personal is decent at the point of attack but struggles at getting pressure, we could have a rotation of Gholston, Monte, Alexander, Evans and Daniels to be the 3 down lineman block eaters with Monte/Gholston as the nose tackles. A linebacking core of Dansby or Suggs, Scott, Fletcher, and Rocky starting with Blades, Cambell, Fincher and maybe one more signed or drafted guy would be pretty strong. Than you could focus your entire draft on offensive line, with maybe a late pick of a big fat DT who can't run at all but also can't be moved by less than 2 guys, not too hard to find I would think. We're talking two reasonable signings of Bart Scott and a decent depth guy and maybe Suggs (who probably will be franchised) but more likely Dansby and you're done. I can't figure out why they don't consider this?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The Truth would like to ask how the heck someone could cheer for the Ravens.

The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason.

The Truth notes that 2) the Ravens have a murderer on their team.

The Truth notes that 3) the Ravens are a bunch of crybabies.

The Truth notes that 4) Hines Ward will destroy the Ravens.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I love reading sh!t like this,

Dallas Cowboys linebacker Anthony Spencer was arrested over the weekend after a disturbance outside a downtown Indianapolis nightclub, police said.

Spencer was arrested on preliminary charges of public intoxication and disorderly conduct about 3 a.m. Sunday outside the Have a Nice Day Cafe, city police Sgt. Matthew Mount said.

Spencer, 24, was later released without bond. A court appearance was scheduled for Jan. 15.

Police said Spencer and another man were thrown out of the bar when they refused to leave at closing time, then argued with officers and ignored orders to leave.

A bouncer at the nightclub told officers that Spencer had offered to pay for it to stay open past the 3 a.m. closing time set by law and after being told no tried to punch the bouncer, a police report said.

Spencer's agent, Roosevelt Barnes, did not immediately return a call Monday from The Associated Press seeking comment.

Cowboys spokesman Rich Dalrymple said the team was aware of the arrest but would not comment further until it learned more about what happened.

Spencer, 6-foot-3 and 257 pounds, was the Cowboys' first-round draft pick in 2007. He played at Purdue and is from Fort Wayne, Ind.

He had 34 tackles and two sacks for the Cowboys this season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, as I stated, JLC's statement that the Skins like to draft "quasi famous" players is simply ridiculous.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 12, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Rex Ryan will be the coach of the Jets next season...

Ron Meeks will be the coach of the Rams...

Either Jerry Gray or Jason Garrett will be HC of either the Lions or Raiders.

tuh...

Machete or the hollow tip?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I can't figure out why they don't consider this?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

B/c they'd have to fire Greg Blache and bring in a "3-4" guy.
Blache just delivered a 4th ranked defense using his system, which is a pretty standard 4-3.

Although toward the end of the season he seemed to be willing to do anything to generate pressure on the QB (even turn JT55 loose).

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

B/c they'd have to fire Greg Blache and bring in a "3-4" guy.
Blache just delivered a 4th ranked defense using his system, which is a pretty standard 4-3.

Blache could coach a 3-4 or 4-6 or whatever he wants. It's the personnel that dictates the system more than the coach, just because Blache has used a 4-3 doesn't mean he's incapable of coaching a 3-4. I coach basketball, I like to run a 3-2 matchup zone the majority of the time, I'm very good at coaching it and my team is very successful with it, doesn't mean I can't catch man defense and don't know how to run a man defense. I promise, with the years of experience and knowledge Blache has he could coach a 3-4 if they wanted to run it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Would you tell Monte Kiffin to run a 3-4? There's absolutely no reason for the Redskins to contemplate a switch. #4 defense in the NFL doesn't happen by mistake.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

The REAL Truth notes that:
***) The former governor of Baltimore William Donald Schaefer ripped off Montgomery County residents of millions to build stadiums at the Inner Harbor. He also used the same money to lure Art Modell to Baltimore from their origins in Cleveland with a $20,000,000 carte blache check referred to as "moving expenses". Which he used to start a Sporting Goods Business.

Since most all Montgomery residents are Redskins fans, and have season tickets AND although the Senators owners blocked Baltimore from getting a major league, the Orioles returned the favor for a number of years ... the difference IS WE PAID for them.

Given the current economic crisis and the amount of money spent so that Ballimer could have 2 pro franchises ... they have absolutely no room to complain nor to have any sort of beef against the Redskins or their fans.


"The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

The Truth would like to ask how the heck someone could cheer for the Ravens.

The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason.

The Truth notes that 2) the Ravens have a murderer on their team.

The Truth notes that 3) the Ravens are a bunch of crybabies.

The Truth notes that 4) Hines Ward will destroy the Ravens.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 12:54 PM

Ravens fans do not have a "huge beef" with 'skins fnas. They have had success since the turn of the century, decade, millenuim (how does one simplify that?). Why in hell, would Ravens fans be jealous or have a "huge beef"? *Beavis laugh*

Anyway, how would you know, you're in S.C., right?

The whole "beef", "rivarly", I-495 vs. I-695 thing is a myth. Don't let La Canfora and his AGENDA serve as the mouthpiece for Ravens fans.

I worry that if the 'skins don't start winning soon, they'll be the ones with the "huge beef" for and against Ravens fans.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,
How is the quasi-famous statement rediculius? How many of our first picks were not quasi-famous? One could argue anyone worth a first round pick is going to be quasi famous.

But I am guessing that JLC was saying, no one knows linemen names from college except a hand full of big names at big schools maybe = quasi-famous.

I mean I don't follow College football. to me its an over hyped not as usful as it should be minor league. Outside my crummy alumni I don't follow it yet pre-draft I knew the names Thomas and Colt, a late pick but a big name. I mean Colt was on the front of ESPN Magazine and stuff.

I knew who Taylor was going back to Gibbs first pick. LaVar was supposed to be the next LT right?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

That be the truth ... noting that the Redskins completely shutdown the Eagles with their 4-3 to the tune of 10-3. The Eagles had everything to play for. The Redskins really had nothing to play for other than pride. Nuff said.

"B/c they'd have to fire Greg Blache and bring in a '3-4' guy.

Blache just delivered a 4th ranked defense using his system, which is a pretty standard 4-3."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

It's impossible to argue the fact that we have had too many years of overpaying for players that were past their prime, or players who did not fit our system. However, Haynesworth is an absolute beast and he's only 27 years old. Plus (and I think this is a fact that is easily overlooked) he likes to stomp on the heads of Cowboys players (see Andre Gurode). What more could we ask for? A young DT who requires constant double teams that frees up our LB's and has an inherent aversion to the cowboys. You can't put a price tag on that.

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

per,

You are a fellow Montgomery County Resident please tell me you don't live in the Germantwon area, this blog is not big enough for two people from Germantown.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Agreed in a normal Universe. This is GM Daniel Snyder we are talking about now. Do you really want to bet against that Lisa?

"RedDMV, as I stated, JLC's statement that the Skins like to draft "quasi famous" players is simply ridiculous.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Has to be FA (or equivalent outside linebacker). The draft must be used to rebuild the OL now.

"An immediate-impact player, however, is urgently needed on the D line. I'd say take a big, fast, strong, athletic defensive-end."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Would you tell Monte Kiffin to run a 3-4? There's absolutely no reason for the Redskins to contemplate a switch. #4 defense in the NFL doesn't happen by mistake.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I would tell Monte Kiffin to put together a defense that can force turnovers and create pressure and that can get off the field when the game is on the line. Whatever system that takes. I'm just saying if the goal is to improve the ability to create pressure, as stated by Vinny, then it might be cheaper/more effective to do that by changing our system. Premier defense ends are hard to draft and expensive to sign, decent dlineman like we have and athletic linebackers capable of getting pressure are easier to find.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse


Hmmmm ... well I guess you haven't been keeping up. I mentioned knowing "Snidely-land" very well. Now where would that be?

"per,

You are a fellow Montgomery County Resident please tell me you don't live in the Germantwon area, this blog is not big enough for two people from Germantown.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

bnc211 - Haynesworth is a perennially injured player. Only one season has he ever played 16 games -- and that was his rookie year in 2002. Not worth it to spend max money on a guy that can't suit up for 16 games.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Joe Jacoby was moved to right tackle to extend his career. Why not Samuels? La Var suffered a ruptured achilles and never came back from it. But he did have talent.

"Leave Samuels alone.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

trade the 13th pick for more picks!!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

No to Haynesworth, it will cost too much money for one spot.

To convert to a 3-4 would require a NT, 2x290 plus pound defensive ends, and at least 3 linebackers in the 6'4-6'5 range and in the 250-260 pound range.

Simply...no...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm ... well I guess you haven't been keeping up. I mentioned knowing "Snidely-land" very well. Now where would that be?

"per,

You are a fellow Montgomery County Resident please tell me you don't live in the Germantwon area, this blog is not big enough for two people from Germantown.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:26 PM |

Snyder lives in Potomac, are you saying you live in Potomac because if so that brings up several questions for me.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse


Green was once clocked under a 4.1. That's world record time and it made him the world's fastest man.

He could catch Sproles from behind just like Dorsett.


"Sorry, anyone "think" Sproles could outrun Green?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:08 AM

Green was faster.

Posted by: TWISI | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Red,

Dude, Ravens fans so have a beef with the Skins, not their fans as the Truth said, this is not some JLC thing this is a well established in almost every major sports media outlet in DC and Baltimore thing. Go read the Sun or listen to a sports talk station.

Your letting your hate of the shlub blind you into errors man.

But Ravens fans are convinced that the Skins were responsible in part for the Colts leaving and their not getting an expansion team over Jaxsonville, though no one have ever proved either.

some Skins fans hate Baltimore for a reason I don't get so much.

Its just like why some Washingtonians have a problem with the O's who's owner was public about how he was blocking DC from getting a baseball team.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

What this season teaches us is that Pete Rozelle's "Commitment To Parity" is as strong as ever. Somewhere, old Pete is smiling.

No team's fans - including the Redskins - should ever begin any season with the notion that the Super Bowl is "unrealistic."

Not after the 9-7 Cardinals (who I believe will actually reach the Super Bowl) and the 8-8 Chargers (who made it to the divisional round before running into the buzz-saw better known as the Pittsburgh Steelers).

The AFC will be represented by a dominating defense and competent offense no matter who wins next week in Pittsburgh. But the NFC will be represented by one of two teams that got there through a combination of scheduling, luck, and getting VERY hot at the end of the season (after being lukewarm - and at times ice cold - for most of the season).

Cards/Eagles are a combined 0-3 against the Redskins.

What does this all mean? Nothing really, other than what I already stated: Every fan of every team should be thinking Super Bowl in August, because this is ultimately the "Murphy's Law" league of pro sports.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 12, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"decent dlineman like we have and athletic linebackers capable of getting pressure are easier to find.

Posted by: zjfr2"

Our linemen and linebackers would have no more success in a 3-4 than they do in a 4-3. And signing an elite 3-4 OLB like Suggs would be nearly as expensive as signing Peppers (in fact, I believe their franchise tender is the exact same this season). It's not as simple as you like to think it is. For every Pittsburgh and Ravens there are a Cleveland Browns or San Diego Chargers (see how their defense looked without Merriman).

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

You aren't listening, nor observing. Can Jansen, a right tackle slide over to play left tackle? Could he ever? How is that Heyer can?

No, left tackle, left tackle/guard, center. If you want something for the defense it will have to be FA. They have to rebuild this line, they have to find out if they wasted a pick on Rhinehart.

"The draft should be: rt, wlb, c, rg or something like that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Red,

Dude, Ravens fans so have a beef with the Skins, not their fans as the Truth said,

Posted by: alex35332"


The Truth says "Uhhh, that is exactly what The Truth originally said."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

“LAST CAPPED YEAR” LOOKS TO BE A NEAR CERTAINTY
Posted by Mike Florio on January 12, 2009, 1:36 p.m. EST
Three years ago, the NFL and the NFL Players Association worked out a new Collective Bargaining Agreement on the brink of a new league year. In fact, the two sides agreed to delay the start of the new league year on a couple of occasions in order to get a deal done.

Some people think that the goal was to avoid the beginning of the long-dreaded “uncapped year.”

It wasn’t. The goal was to avoid the last year with a salary cap, since it involves accounting rules that make it harder for the teams to keep and sign players. The thinking was that, once the teams dealt with the major headaches of the last capped year, they would have been more inclined to tolerate an uncapped year.

This time around, the last capped year is less than two months away. But there’s no sense of urgency to get a deal done.

In our view, there are several reasons for this drastically different dynamic. First, the union still doesn’t have a replacement at Executive Director for the late Gene Upshaw. Until a new Executive Director is hired, meaningful discussions simply can’t occur. (The new Executive Director likely will be picked in March.)

Second, the last time around teams were limited in the last capped year to a four-year proration of signing bonus money for draft picks, which would have made it much harder to sign first-round selections, since more cap space in the current year would have been used. This time around, a five-year proration will apply.

Third, teams aren’t spending to the cap limit like they used to. And with the $123 million per-team cap number already set due to the two-year “pegging” of the number based on projected revenues, the economic downturn will make many teams less willing or able to scrape the spending ceiling.

As a result, it’s no surprise that interim Executive Director Richard Berthelsen has advised the rank-and-file that negotiations will commence “later this year” on a new CBA.

It appears, then, that the teams are far more willing to accept a “last capped year” than they were in 2006, even if it will be very hard for some of them to get or stay under the spending limit.

The question then becomes whether putting up with the hard decisions associated with cap compliance in 2009 will make those teams more inclined to have a system without a spending maximum in 2010.

Then again, there’s also a chance that more than a few teams would like to have a season without a spending minimum, and that’s another widely overlooked reality of the looming year without a salary cap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

But grew up in Rockville. Know both places well enough. Snidely Owl is kind of like Rockville's very poor rendition of Microsoft Founder Bill Gates. ~smiles~ Interesting that Gates former partner owns the Seahawks.

What's the diff? There used to farms and barns everywhere now there's a ton of foreclosed houses on tracts in the "new Potomac" where the King's Dairy farm used to be.

"Snyder lives in Potomac, are you saying you live in Potomac because if so that brings up several questions for me.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Per,

Grew up in Rockville myself, proud alum of the Richard Montgomery Rockets.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Snidely is laying people off flounder. Do you really think he'd pull a JKC with no cap? Then when a new cap is imposed have to cut as they did when they ravaged Gibbs last superbowl team?

"Then again, there’s also a chance that more than a few teams would like to have a season without a spending minimum, and that’s another widely overlooked reality of the looming year without a salary cap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Truth you said: The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason.

I am saying the Ravens fans beef is not with fans but the Skins as a team.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

has vinny been fired yet?

Posted by: dadanimal | January 12, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Snidely is laying people off flounder. Do you really think he'd pull a JKC with no cap? Then when a new cap is imposed have to cut as they did when they ravaged Gibbs last superbowl team?

"Then again, there’s also a chance that more than a few teams would like to have a season without a spending minimum, and that’s another widely overlooked reality of the looming year without a salary cap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:43 PM |

Come on Per, that was from PFT not me do you think I could have written that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

++++,

I thought the WCO could not work in the East, how is it possible that the Eagles are in the NFC Championship for the 5th time using that offense? I know people will say they have never won the SB, but the argument was that the WCO could not work in cold weather or the big tough NFC East. The SB is played in warm weather so that is not an argument.

Posted by: Flounder21 ++++

If Philly wins the Suprbowl that means their varient of the so-called WCO worked ONCE. (A team with NO offense won the SB once...doesn't mean it's the template to build on.)

Meanwhile NON-WCO teams have dominated the NFC East for decades.

So you can say you won the argument "technically," but I will argue eight days a week that a team that tries to win the NFC East with dink and dunk passing is folly.

I'm here to tell you it would NOT have worked to date had not their coach stumbled on the perfect motivational tool for D. McNabb, had not moron Plaxico shot himself in the leg, had their extraordinary defensive genius not managed to make the Eagles D peak at exactly the right time, had Dallas not self-destructed, and had the phases of the moon not been perfect.

Think of it as the exception that proves the rule.

And I'm not sure how you can call Philly a WCO team when they boast the biggest OLine in the NFL---and most WCO teams featuer lighter more mobile linemen.

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

"The whole "beef", "rivarly", I-495 vs. I-695 thing is a myth. Don't let La Canfora and his AGENDA serve as the mouthpiece for Ravens fans.

I worry that if the 'skins don't start winning soon, they'll be the ones with the "huge beef" for and against Ravens fans.

Posted by: RedDMV "

The Truth has no desire for The Redskins to mirror the Ravens.

The Truth also notes that JLC is a Ravens fan who for some reason has beef with the Redskins, which is what The Truth just said.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

And I say Baltimore owes US (Montgomery County, the guys who have paid over 40% of MD's taxes these past 30 years) bailout money. Fork it over.

"Truth you said: The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason.

I am saying the Ravens fans beef is not with fans but the Skins as a team.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Flound, thanks for posting, but I cannot fathom that happening. Teams like Buffalo, and Cincy would just dry up, and who in their right mind would want to playe there...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

No to Haynesworth, it will cost too much money for one spot.

To convert to a 3-4 would require a NT, 2x290 plus pound defensive ends, and at least 3 linebackers in the 6'4-6'5 range and in the 250-260 pound range.

Simply...no...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Monte and Gholston are both big enough to be nose tackles, Casey Hampton is 325, Monte is 315, and Gholston is 300. Daniels and Evans are both right at 290, and alexander could play end in a 3-4 system, Carter is a perfect rush LB in a 3-4 system, you sign Suggs and all of a sudden you're there. Additionally, a quick scan at Walterfootball reveals 5 DT prospects all project 3 round or later that are NT prospects and 320 plus, not to mention that Grady Jackson and Gabe Watson are both Free agents to be. All I'm trying to say is it would be cheaper and the best two defenses in the league this year and perennially tough defenses are the Ravens and Steelers who both run 3-4s and we aren't far away from having personnel for that, and it might be cheaper and easier than signing Peppers and Haynesworth and hoping they stay healthy/motivated/good or hoping we hit the lottery and draft a premier Dend.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Truth you said: The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason.

I am saying the Ravens fans beef is not with fans but the Skins as a team.

Posted by: alex35332 "

The Truth says "Oh, so The Truth did." The Truth originally meant to just say Redskins.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Actually, no again. He had problems in that system in SF. Its why he's here.

Now Taylor would work.

But you would still have to find different coaches. And they do field one of the NFL's premier defenses.


"Carter is a perfect rush LB in a 3-4 system, you sign Suggs and all of a sudden you're there."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,
I feel for you. I don't have much sway in MD or Balt politics anymore. Not that I did even when I tried too. But hey the Mayor of Baltimore is probably getting kicked out for dirty politician stuff, which is no shock to me I heard rumors about her being dirty. I will look into whats going on and get back to you.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Flounder,

Only drawing the obvious conclusion any Redskin fan would. Mad Hatter Dan with wads of bills falling out of his pockets and salivating agents of the available free agent player pool.


"Come on Per, that was from PFT not me do you think I could have written that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

And while I cannot off the top of my head cite past examples, the draft "points" system that most teams use would make this a very viable and not unusual scenario (i.e., 13th overall for a late 1st and late 2nd)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 12, 2009 11:33 AM

Heres a link to the draft value chart.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

Our pick, number 13 is worth 1150 points. The 22nd pick in the first round is worth 780 and in the second round its worth 360, for a total of 1140. So, anyone with picks at 22 or later who wanted to move up to our position should be willing to give us a 1st and a 2nd. Plus, if theyre much below 22, they ought to be willing to throw in a 4, 5, or 6.

At least, thats how it works in theory. Throw in the `Lets-eat-Vinnie`s-lunch-again` factor and they may be able to get us to trade down for much less.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Move Jansen...?

He's done. The sand has hit the bottom of his professional hourglass. He's an early 2000 type massive right tackle in a world where Tuck, Jacque Parker, Mario Williams, Osi, Kiwanika, et al are long and quick and shake past him like guys half their size.

Heyer will replace Samuels. Jansen is a back up to whoever the 1st pick is-- again: I hope a rt is the pick. I've read that Jansen can play center, which, if he can, makes him that much more valuable.

And let's give the rg spot to Rhino (made that up myself: brownwood said I was a moron, proof of it).


Go Rhino....!

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Red,

Dude, Ravens fans so have a beef with the Skins, not their fans as the Truth said...

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 1:31 PM

Okay, point taken. The Ravens fans have a beef with the 'skins, and not their fans, and BTW alex, I pointed to the fact that the B-more fans DO NOT have a beef with the D.C. fans - "Ravens fans do not have a "huge beef" with 'skins fnas. They have had success since the turn of the century, decade, millenuim (how does one simplify that?). Why in hell, would Ravens fans be jealous or have a "huge beef"? *Beavis laugh*

Anyway, how would you know, you're in S.C., right?

The whole "beef", "rivarly", I-495 vs. I-695 thing is a myth. Don't let La Canfora and his AGENDA serve as the mouthpiece for Ravens fans.

I worry that if the 'skins don't start winning soon, they'll be the ones with the "huge beef" for and against Ravens fans."

From ESPN, to the d-bag Dallas fans in the DMV, who doesn't have a "beef" with the 'skins.

I never understood why this hatred of the Washington Redskins exists. Is it the name? It can be the success of the team. The 'skins have been "mired in a morass of mediocrity" - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgYKI6br8o8vcrhMqbM5tbyb2bYF?slug=teamreports-2009-nfl-was&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report
----------------------
The Truth says "Uhhh, that is exactly what The Truth originally said."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 1:39 PM

RedDMV says no son, you did not say that.

RedDMV offers the statements below to prove this fact: "The Truth notes that 1) Ravens fans have some huge beef with us Skins fans for some reason." - TheTruth11

Raven fans have a beef with the Washington Redskins, not their fans, unlike the d-bag Dallas fans residing in the DMV - who undoubtedly have a problem with 'skins fans.

RedDMV says F splitting hairs.

RedDMV says just shave the mf'er bald and be done with it.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

corky, you can spin it anyway you want, its a WCO. Period.

Yup, they have a big OLINE. its STILL a WCO.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry, anyone "think" Sproles could outrun Green?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 9:08 AM

In Green's prime, Carl Lewis could not outrun him in a dead sprint.

Sproles looks fast, but it is his low-center-of-gravity lateral movement that allows him to make cuts/get in the open/accelerate away from defenders quickly. But he's really short which means he's got quick short strides that make him "look" fast. Someone taller may be able to keep pace with him, though they don't "look" as fast because they take longer slower strides.

Yesterday, Sproles didn't look like he was able to outrun a couple of PIttsburgh defenders on a long punt return.

I've never ever seen anything in the NFL like what Darrell Green did to chase down Tony Dorsett, where he just accelerated past everyone else on the field and caught him from behind.

Posted by: p1funk | January 12, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

We're showing our ages with the "he said, she said, they said" stuff, LOL...

damn Truth, even in 3P you're still easy pickings.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

while you are correct that the skins need to upgrade the tackle position asap, you sure do have a asine d-bag way to explain it.

eff you jlc

Posted by: jonthefisherman | January 12, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

"asine"?? Ever hear of spell check?

Go to ESPN's message board and post there. Or better yet, become an Eagles fan. They'd love to have a dummy like you.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | January 12, 2009 8:29 AM


+100

Posted by: cstanton1 | January 12, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Jeeze Red, you're such a baby.

I mean the Skins obviously. What fans have beef with other fans? And yes I agree, "f splitting hairs".

It was what I meant, sorry one word slipped in

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

trying to make heads of RedDMV | January 12, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse made my eyes bleed :)

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Now I have a beef with Eagles Fans, save close friends and family, and Cowboys Fans of whom any close friends or family ties have been severed, save my grandmother who just did it to annoy my grandfather and does not follow sports at all.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Dungy has apparently stepped down. Class act.

And Jim Rice made the HOF.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Beantown ... good day up there with Jim Rice getting in ... finally

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

And I have a beef with the former governor of Baltimore. Makes sense that yet another mayor of Ballimer would be corrupt.

Ravens fans DEFINITELY OWE BIG $$$$$$ to Redskins fans. NOT vice-versa. The then governor of Ballimer even had that temerity to block the construction of JKC's new stadium in Montgomery County. Then when he moved to PG it was like pulling teeth to get him to put in road improvemments. And JKC was paying for that stadium NOT US!

Ravens OWE if the have a beef with US they can go blow a whale protuberance for all I care.


"I mean the Skins obviously. What fans have beef with other fans? And yes I agree, "f splitting hairs".

It was what I meant, sorry one word slipped in

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I am torn. I would like to see NFC East represented in the SB. But by the Eagles?

As others have noted, their fans are obnoxious. Their uniforms are ugly. Their coach looks like a walrus. And -- this is just my opinion -- they are the dirtiest team in the NFL. A whole defense full of Rodney Harrison type headhunters, hitting after the whistle and spearing.

On the other hand, I don't know if the fabric of the universe can stand the karmic strain of having Bill Bidwell's team in the Super Bowl.

As for drafting tackles, hell yes to Oher. Hell NO to any fat boys like the OSU tackles. That may work against a lot of NCAA defensive ends, doubt it will in the NFL.

If Oher's there at 13, or whenever the Skins draft, take him.

If Taylor Mays from USC is available, take him. I can see that guy being the best player in the NFL by his 3rd year.

For those who say we're good at safety (or any position, for that matter), I ask you this:

Suppose you knew that Ray Lewis was going to be as good as he's been for as long as he's been. Would you have taken him at LB even though you had a guy playing at a PB level there already?


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 12, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

z, he got 76.4 percent of the votes, and it takes 75 to get in, this was his last year of being eligible as well.

Yeah, the locals are pretty happy about it.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

AND they need a left tackle NOT A RIGHT tackle ...
Sam Baker started off at right tackle by the end of the season he was starting at left tackle.

Yes, Samuels deserves accolades. BUT REMEMBER he is getting paid ... all of his money, and it is a lot against the cap, is almost all guaranteed bonus money. Not salary. He is getting what he deserves. If he ends up at right tackle and it extends his career it also preserves salary cap money from becoming dead cap.

Draft excellent left tackles, left tackles that can play right tackle or guard. Heck you may be able to trade Heyer for picks if you get the right mix.

OL is the way to go in this draft. That's just the way it is because of the complete lack of foresight on the part Vinnie and the FO (Snidely) made. No real plan for the future. No idea how to get from point A to point B.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

So who gets the Colts job?

Do you think Peyton 'Mr. Over exposed' Manning will have a major say.

Probably.

The Madden GM hires from within.

Give the job to Ron Meeks.

The Colts' D needs some weight up the middle and the same system as their offense is as creative as their is.

Speaking of weight up the middle, The Madden GM is off the Haynesworth Bandwagon and back on the 3-4, 4-3 hybrid look as each team in the NFL Final 4 uses ever-changing fronts and aggressive safety play to 'get after' the opposing offenses.

Along with Rhino, the Skins should give Rob Jackson/Chris Wilson long looks a blitzing/stand-up ends a la James Harrison in order to attack teams' protection schemes.

But what do I know.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps its time to see if you can convert them
to LB's as the Eagles did with Chris Gocong from Cal Poly SLO (Madden's alma mater). I don't know how that works but given Wilson's speed and size it would seem to make sense?

They are very short on draft picks and desperately need some high ones. Necessity is the mother of invention.

"Along with Rhino, the Skins should give Rob Jackson/Chris Wilson long looks a blitzing/stand-up ends a la James Harrison in order to attack teams' protection schemes."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Best, most telling stat of the weekend. NFL team with best regular season record this year. Tennessee Titans.
NFL quarterback that was sacked the least. Kerry Collins, who just so happens to play for the same Tennessee Titans. And on top of that, my grandmother has more mobility than Kerry Collins, and she's dead.

Case closed.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | January 12, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Here's another interesting factoid...the Titans had 4 OL who received all-pro votes. The Gints had 2 of their linemen get votes. So I conclude the the Titans had the best OL in 2008.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Sproles is very fast, but he's lightening quick. The guy is fast in one direction, but he switches directions at full speed, and no one does this.

Sproles is an ankle breaker!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Colts have a new HC desgnated they claim

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Given the way the Skins defense has been contrived in a world of sense where they didn't trade away their draft picks. Pick up worthless, and expensive FA's overloading them with dead cap. Forcing them to let a starting guard go to Buffalo. And to let the OL get by with band-aids up til now.

Then yeah. That would be their pick if they could get him.

But they didn't do all the right things ... so ...

"If Taylor Mays from USC is available, take him. I can see that guy being the best player in the NFL by his 3rd year."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Most FO types were picking the Eagles? For their depth. They have guys that could start for most other teams as backups.


"Here's another interesting factoid...the Titans had 4 OL who received all-pro votes. The Gints had 2 of their linemen get votes. So I conclude the the Titans had the best OL in 2008.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

You have your answer.
Possibly even today, compared to Green Sproles would be slow.


"Sorry, anyone "think" Sproles could outrun Green?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

+++If Oher's there at 13, or whenever the Skins draft, take him.

If Taylor Mays from USC is available, take him. I can see that guy being the best player in the NFL by his 3rd year.
Posted by: dpc2003 | January 12, 2009 2:57 PM +++

If Mays is on the board when we draft then it's obvious he would be the best available talent left on the board. There is no way he falls unless everyone in front of us has taken the top 4 OTs. I would argue that if Mays, Curry or Monroe fell to #13, we have to take one of them.

I'm not sold on Jason Smith. Dude is only 270 lbs.

I think Jason Smith would be a reach at #13. But then again I also think that there might be some potential in our FIVE young OLine men currently on the roster. However I do not attend practices...... I'm just asking, Do we really need to spend more than one or two picks on OLine Men? I don't think so.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Jan. 9, 2009 By Eric Edholm

Redskins could use Rogers as bargaining chip

The Redskins are back in a familiar position. A year after having an unusual offseason with almost no free-agent activity and 10 draft picks, the team will be forced to trim some aged and expensive talent and currently has only four draft picks with which to work. The Redskins have first-, third-, fifth- and sixth-round picks, having traded away their second-, fourth- and seventh-round picks in separate deals for Jason Taylor, Pete Kendall and Erasmus James. The team wants to add picks and might have the depth at cornerback to make a trade. The most likely to go? Believe it or not, Carlos Rogers. Through the first part of the season, Rogers was playing at a Pro Bowl level, but he fell off and eventually was demoted to playing nine defensive snaps in the loss to the Bengals. The club would like to work out a long-term deal with free-agent-to-be DeAngelo Hall, and not Rogers — whose deal has one year remaining — and could use him as trade bait. One estimated guess at Rogers’ value: a second-round pick, which would offset the draft-pick shortage somewhat.

If that's true and we could get a second for Rogers (I'd be shocked) and we can resign hall, keep Springs, and sign another corner to play the 8 games that Springs will be hurt then I guess maybe you do it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

matt, smith isn't 270, don't know where you're getting that from.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Truth, baby deez nutz... you know nothing about whats going on up here. stick to the script; UGA, UGA alumni, and your bobbycats. on a serious note how does one root for the 'skins, georgia bulldogs, and bobcats?

pick a damn region already.


alex, what can I say? copying and pasting isn't one of my strong points...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Has anybody else noticed that the Ravens are in the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB and a rookie head coach? Wait that can't happen, according to all of the "experts" at comcast sports and on Redskin Nation you can't play QB that well if you are in a different system than the year before. I guess the University of Delaware ran the same offense as the Ravens with the same terminology and everything. To be sure a rookie can't pick that up if a guy who has been in the league for four years has trouble doing it. Face it, Campbell is at best a caretaker QB or a career back up. he will not get you to the next level.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | January 12, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Beantown. That'll be the last time that I trust scout.com. I see now that he is listed at 305lbs. Which is much more intimidating than 270.

According to scout.com Jason Smith is the 13 highest rated prospect, but he's also 270?
OT 13 Jason Smith SR 6-5/270/- Baylor Dallas, TX

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

+++Face it, Campbell is at best a caretaker QB or a career back up. he will not get you to the next level.
Posted by: rmcpks73 | January 12, 2009 3:26 PM++

Yeah especially when he's on his back half of the game.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

More than anytime in recent years, the Skins need a strategy this offseason. Last offseason, they couldn't decide if they wanted to go with youth (drafting and keeping 10 guys) or make a playoff push (keep the entire roster and pay a bunch for an aging vet in Jason Taylor).

Seems they did neither. Of the 10 picks, we only have a sense on a few ... and only 1 likely success story.

My comments for the last 2 offseasons were dead-on. Simple philosophy. Look at the team in 2 years and draft at those positions. Fill in weak spots with good FAs or trades.

2 years out, I estimate 15 key players could be done, or close to it. But which 15?

All in all, I don't have much clarity on how to handle this offseason.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

rmcpks73 I'd argue that an experienced NFL OC that accents the strengths of offensive personnel, a hellified/opportunistic defense, and solid special teams has a lot to do with. It's a team game.

Posted by: TWISI | January 12, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Red,
Its understandable happens to all of us.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"Wait that can't happen, according to all of the "experts" at comcast sports and on Redskin Nation you can't play QB that well if you are in a different system than the year before."

You're right. No way Jason Campbell could go 11/22, 50% completion, 161 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INTs. No way. He's never remotely put up a statline like that in his career.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

There are a lot of Carlos Rogers Haters out there. I don't see the big deal with Carlos and why people think the Redskins will be better off without him, supplanting him with a second round pick? It sounds dumb to break up something as good as our secondary, considering Springs may not be here next year(I say if he goes, then he goes to Dallas), Smoot's decline and the up&coming promise of JT 'Just Tryin-out."

Of course we could always peruse Pac Man. Maybe then, People would stop hatin' on 'Los.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

So, after a little reflection on the season and a little research, I submit the following. Forget about Fat Albert in Tenn. We should take Sam Swank with the 13 pick. Check out these impressive stats:
Sam Swank, Wake Forest
Height: 6-2. Weight: 206.
Projected Round (2009): 5.
5/26/08: Sam Swank nailed every attempt within 40, and was 5-of-8 from beyond that distance, including 2-of-3 from 50-plus. Most impressive is the fact that Swank is 9-of-12 from 50-plus in his career.
He could probably give Sweezy a run for his money and we wouldn't have to spend round 1 money to sign him.

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

To be sure a rookie can't pick that up if a guy who has been in the league for four years has trouble doing it. Face it, Campbell is at best a caretaker QB or a career back up. he will not get you to the next level.
Posted by: rmcpks73 | January 12, 2009 3:26 PM

While JC17 is definitley an hot topic of debate up here, to proclaim that he is a career backup and will NOT get you to the next level is premature. The Ravens are having a great year and have an excellent all around team. Everyone seems to agree that the skins need to improve their O-line, get a legit 1-2 receiver combo, and that it will hopefully get JC to the next level. What would have happened if they had cut J Theismann in 1978-81 when skins fans were calling for Theismann's head? Bye bye 82 and 83 Super Bowl appearances. Took Rypien a few years too. Even if he doesn't turn into an "elite" QB, that doesn't rule out a Super Bowl, as many teams have shown. JC has definitely (IMO) shown improvement from 07 to 08. Personally I think adding in his newfound propensity to scramble is going to make him even better; something else for the defense to worry about. Have some patience.....If we get a good line and receivers, and Zorn gets better at playcalling and JC starts losibng games on his own, call him a bust. Just not yet.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, dlhaze1!
Campbell has progressively improved each season in the NFL. I have to believe that next year will follow suit.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | January 12, 2009 8:29 AM = one of the "back in the day posters" = WaPo staff

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

5/26/08: Sam Swank nailed every attempt within 40, and was 5-of-8 from beyond that distance, including 2-of-3 from 50-plus. Most impressive is the fact that Swank is 9-of-12 from 50-plus in his career.
He could probably give Sweezy a run for his money and we wouldn't have to spend round 1 money to sign him.
Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 3:39 PM

So you want to use a first round pick on a projected 5th round kicker, whose stats are just about the same as the guy we have in house currently? Seriously? Also, that doesn't rule out getting Haynesworth, unless you want him to kick field goals.....I hope you're kidding.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has progressively improved each season in the NFL. I have to believe that next year will follow suit.

Posted by: matthewvickers

---------

No reason to think otherwise. Unless you just plain hate the guy.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | January 12, 2009 8:29 AM = one of the "back in the day posters" = WaPo staff

Ha Ha! Good guess. I'm definitely a "back in the day poster". Been here since the beginning. But I'm definitely not a WashPost staffer.

I just get tired of the bashing sometimes. The intelligent discussions rock....

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | January 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Has anybody else noticed that the Ravens are in the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB and a rookie head coach? Wait that can't happen, according to all of the "experts" at comcast sports and on Redskin Nation you can't play QB that well if you are in a different system than the year before. I guess the University of Delaware ran the same offense as the Ravens with the same terminology and everything. To be sure a rookie can't pick that up if a guy who has been in the league for four years has trouble doing it. Face it, Campbell is at best a caretaker QB or a career back up. he will not get you to the next level.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | January 12, 2009 3:26 PM


Have you noticed that their defense carries that team? Have you noticed that the Ravens have physical receivers that go up and get the ball?

To compare Campbell and Flacco is ricockulous.

I don't know if Campbell is the answer, but he's not part of the bigger problems that exists with this team.

Aging and a decrepit offensive line is at the top of the problems with this squad.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Upside sometimes counts more than what's happening right now.

And right now, Flacco is playing and Campbell is watching.

Nothing against Mr. Campbell--yes, poor line play was an issue. But do you think if he had blocking he could hit his receivers in stride with the type of long/medium balls Rivers, Collins, Flacco, and Big Ben completed this weekend.

To quote a Hertz ad: "Not exactly."

Redskins Nation's concerns about Campbell's accuracy are well founded. Yes, a 62% completion rate is good, but only if a guy is slinging the ball upfield and not throwing hitches, curls, and screens.

And those are the type of short passes Campbell threw all season.

Campbell doesn't fit the ball into tight spaces or hit backs on flare routes in stride to maximize yards after the catch: a staple necessity of the WCO.

Even Eli Manning got exposed Sunday, as it's now evident his deep balls were the result of Plax's long frame positioning for them and not his accuracy. Teams will play 8 man fronts and press the jints' receivers next season and dare them to complete passes deep and Eli won't.

In the National Championship game, Bradford was accurate and Tebow an H-back playing quarterback.

I'd draft Sam Bradford without thinking.

Accuracy can not be coached and the lack of it is not the result of learning 3 systems in three years or whatever the excuse is.

I'm not a member of the Cult 'O Colt, yet. But he sure was accurate while playing for June Jones.

Maybe that's where the upside is for Skins fans.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

T_O_L

All us old school posters get sick of the haters. Fact-o-blog-life though that all blogs go through a fairly standard process of birth-life-death.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

What i think we should all learn from this year is patience. I mean Chris clemons is known as a pass rushing specialists.

Does anybody remeber when Chris clemons was on the skins roster and his brother was a linebacker at the same time I think his name was nick clemmons.

Anyway this just goes to show that we have talent but we dont give them time to mature into true NLF players.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 12, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Happy 50th Motown Records

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

So who gets the Colts job?

Do you think Peyton 'Mr. Over exposed' Manning will have a major say.

Probably.

The Madden GM hires from within.

Give the job to Ron Meeks.

The Colts' D needs some weight up the middle and the same system as their offense is as creative as their is.

Speaking of weight up the middle, The Madden GM is off the Haynesworth Bandwagon and back on the 3-4, 4-3 hybrid look as each team in the NFL Final 4 uses ever-changing fronts and aggressive safety play to 'get after' the opposing offenses.

Along with Rhino, the Skins should give Rob Jackson/Chris Wilson long looks a blitzing/stand-up ends a la James Harrison in order to attack teams' protection schemes.

But what do I know.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Jim Caldwell has already been contractually promised to be the successor to Dungy just like Mora was to Holmgren.

But I totally agree on the 3-4 switch despite the lack of support on here. I refuse to believe that a coach of Blache's ability and experience can't coach a 3-4, when he was at one point a running backs coach at Notre Dame, I think he could probably figure out a 3-4 and we have loads of undersized speed rushers, (Wilson, Jackson, Carter, Buzbee) and big guys who hold up well at the point of attack but can't get pressure. Start a line with Monte, Alexander, and Gholston with Evans and Daniels at ends for passing downs, and sign a cheap Grady Jackson or Gabe Watson for the true nose tackle if you want and let those undersized ends rush the edges or stunt blitz like the Ravens or Steelers do. Our personnel is better suited for that then they are for a 4-3. And I know, we finished 4th overall in yards allowed, but we were were below average in picks and 28th in sacks (and have been terrible at that for years). That's gotta change and the chances of signing or drafting a premier are unlikely in one draft, most teams have drafted high on their Dlines for years, we've ignored them, and can't expect a quick signing or one pick to change that. Its time to look at our personnel and figure out a scheme that utilizes it better instead of having fast young speed rushers sitting on the bench cause they can't hold up against the run so well, get em on the field in a system that utilizes they're talents.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Jasno's suggestion that Skins draft a tackle = Owner/EVP decision to draft a running back. Oh well.

Did I miss everyone patting alex##### on the back for calling Delhomme a backup QB who got lucky? The repeated silent footage of Delhomme's F bombs showed a guy who did not "stay medium." The 3rd, 4th, and 5th picks were directly caused by his getting too un-medium after the 2nd one.

Posted by: dcsween | January 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

... I'd draft Sam Bradford without thinking. ...

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 3:56 PM

Correction: This is who the Owner/EVP would draft instead of a tackle.

Posted by: dcsween | January 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

that was monte at nose unless you sign a bigger guy and then monte is his backup....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Jim Caldwell is the only name I've ever heard about who replaces Dungy ... no discussion about anybody else. I just figured that the deal was locked in writing.

Posted by: dcsween | January 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Sween,
you cant get unmeadium cause the opposite of medium is medium.

I don't ask for praise for being right on an observation. I just demand a human sacrifice or two preferable someone the show redskins nation.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

it is, he got that clause last year which is why he didn't interview with us and why we then talked to Meeks instead.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"Even Eli Manning got exposed Sunday, as it's now evident his deep balls were the result of Plax's long frame positioning for them and not his accuracy.

Posted by: MistaMoe"

And Eli Manning was a Super Bowl MVP and the franchise QB for one of the best franchises in the league right now. All the more reason not to harp too much on Campbell for his inconsistent accuracy.

Campbell already has more than half of the puzzle figured out. He completes a decent percentage of his passes. He minimizes mistakes. His ability to read a defense is top-notch as evidenced by being the lowest turnover prone QB in the league, despite hitting his top WRs for the majority of his completions. For Campbell, his true improvement will come next year when he (hopefully) finds the happy medium between being risk-taking and being risk-averse.

As far as the stats are concerned, get a couple other WRs to step up (like Plaxico to Eli), get a consistently blocking o-line, and get a little more creativity in the playcalling, and I guarantee a significant boost in the numbers. Campbell has the chops, no doubt in my mind.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe - I believe that Campbell actually excelled in the WCO while at Auburn in 04, finishing with his highest completion percentage, most yards and 20 TDS.

I'm not saying he fits the WCO or that he is as accurate as others, but come on, it's his first year in Zorn's playbook, he was under duress much of the time and there was simply no trust in the rookie WRs. Patience is a virtue.

GreatOne, This is exactly why I believe that among the FIVE Young OLineMen on our roster could be quality LineMen. It's also why I don't want to see Carlos traded. Develop some talent from within!!!!

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

what short memories people have, it is amazing that people forget the learning curve is different for different QB's. Drew brees took 4 years to become half of what he is now, he did not become a leader until his 4th year starting(key word here starting as in not just 4 years in the league)Now people would give up their 1st round picks for the guy.

Sometimes it also depends on who is the OC bringing the QB along.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

So you want to use a first round pick on a projected 5th round kicker, whose stats are just about the same as the guy we have in house currently? Seriously? Also, that doesn't rule out getting Haynesworth, unless you want him to kick field goals.....I hope you're kidding.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 12, 2009 3:47 PM
YES, I was just kidding. I have been a skins fan for roughly 20 years so I understand the negativity that goes with that. However, I have been reading all of the posts here for a while now and EVERYTHING is negative. I was hoping to lighten the mood a little. The fact of the matter is I wonder if all the posts here are a true reflection of the Skins fan base now, or if it is just frustration from years of mediocrity. I went to the Skins/Steelers game and saw a stadium that was at least a 1/3 full of Steelers fans. I have never seen anything like it. Then I read these posts (most of which are valid points) and I wonder, when did we become so jaded? And, what has to happen to change the attitude of the fans around here?
Sorry, I guess I'm just venting. But seriously, something's got to give around here (and by here I mean the DC area). Too many years of losing, poor decisions, etc. etc. has created a truly depressing situation.

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

another one joins the 3-4 campaign... started by that dude, RedDMV, FYI...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

++For Campbell, his true improvement will come next year when he (hopefully) finds the happy medium between being risk-taking and being risk-averse.
Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:07 PM ++

psp, I think that depends on the rapport he will develop with the young guns, DT, Kelly and Davis, through the offseason and training camp.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Just looking at the numbers from the regular season and if I could do it cleanly I would post them. Eli and Jason's numbers were very very close together and its a good comparison because they are separated by like 10 passes if I remember correctly. but they are near identical, in almost every stat, with Eli getting a small edge in about 2/3 of the stats, but many more TD's and many less sacks.

Like I said those are just the number, but check them out on NFL.com

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

... you can't get unmedium because the opposite of medium is medium. ...

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:05 PM

The opposite of medium is extreme. What happened to Delhomme is that he let himself get out of the moment ... so that the preceding moments bled into the moments yet to come. He let his past get into his future. I think the way Zorn talked about "medium" was something like staying in the moment ... that the past (whether good or bad) cannot be allowed to distract you from the present ... just execute and perform starting from scratch every snap. Something like that.

Delhomme fell into a pick spiral of death.

Posted by: dcsween | January 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

red, good luck with that. let us know how that works out for you....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

sween

I like Bradford's height and arm.

I don't want him this year for the Skins.

The Madden GM wants a rt. There's no debate there.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Eli also got un-medium ... couldn't throw with any accuracy, much less a spiral, for more than 10 yards all day ... tragic really (for him) ... hilarious otherwise ... ha!ha!

Posted by: dcsween | January 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

psp, I think that depends on the rapport he will develop with the young guns, DT, Kelly and Davis, through the offseason and training camp.

Posted by: matthewvickers

-----

It most definitely will. Very rarely is it ever just one player.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Chris Clemons is a role player who nobody even in philly knew until he returned he had the TD against the Cowgirls in week 17. lets not go crying over chris clemons, he couldn't stay healthy here end of story. I'm waiting for Jason La Crapfora to harp on Clemons though, can't wait. He'll be Bruce Smith while Eddie Royal is Art Monk.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Red, people have argued for the 3-4 on this blog before you were even able to type washingtonpost.com

I was leading the charge last season when the team was looking for a new DC, and all were figuring that Carter would turn in another great 10+ sack year and McIntosh and Washington were coming back healthy. (as thats when you do it).

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Delhomme needs to be shown the door for that performance...

Could anyone (non-Campbell haters) imagine if Campbell was accountable for six turnovers in the divisional round of the playoffs?

D.C. would've been burned to the f'n ground. Campbell would've been nailed to the Washington Monumnet, and Colt Brennan would've been anointed the Messiah.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Why so much excuse making for Campbell? If you are player, you make it happen when things aren't going well. That's what the good ones do. I happen to believe JC is a very good back up but he is not starter quality. Saint Joe missed on this one. Answer this JC fans: Do you believe JC is as good as Aaron Brooks?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"lets not go crying over chris clemons, he couldn't stay healthy here end of story."

Not really "end of story". It's not like this team is full of 16 games a season players all over the roster. Plenty of guys "can't stay healthy" here. Not everyone gets sent packing. Maybe that's why they decided to place Buzbee on IR. Maybe they've finally learned a lesson, and are hoping to avoid giving up the next Clemons.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

red, good luck with that. let us know how that works out for you....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 12, 2009 4:14 PM

For us bean, for us...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Aaron Brooks sucked and is out of the league do you mean Aaron Rodgers?? And yes I do feel he is as good, give it time.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Red,

Nice. Totally agree.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Answer this JC fans: Do you believe JC is as good as Aaron Brooks?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 4:21 PM

Yes.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Answer this JC fans: Do you believe JC is as good as Aaron Brooks?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 4:21 PM

Oh I get it! Why Aaron Brooks? :)

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"If you are player, you make it happen when things aren't going well. That's what the good ones do.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

By this definition, there are about 3 "good ones" located on NFL rosters right now. And I don't think Peyton or Brady are packing their bags for Ashburn anytime soon.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Aaron Brooks (aka Aaron Rodgers, who I think you meant)...

0-8 in comeback attempts for his career. Nothing like a clutch QB to get you through those rough times.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I think you can patch together a better than last year 4-3 team in one off season. I think it would take 2-3 seasons to put up a 3-4 front that would scare people.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Chris Clemons was here for 3 yrs and did nothing of note, how many years should we give people? Man, i just know this is the year Cliff Russell is gonna break out!!! they shoulda kept him too!!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

They might go for him if he is available to them in the 3rd round if he is that good, and if they have their eye on him. Prefer getting a kicker on the second day but it is a VITAL concern going into next year. I can't help but think they may have to swallow a bitter pill and pick a kicker in the 3rd.

"5/26/08: Sam Swank nailed every attempt within 40, and was 5-of-8 from beyond that distance, including 2-of-3 from 50-plus. Most impressive is the fact that Swank is 9-of-12 from 50-plus in his career.
He could probably give Sweezy a run for his money and we wouldn't have to spend round 1 money to sign him.
Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh no sir, alex, I've been posting here for a little while myself... just wasn't paid attention (not that I am now) to until I embraced my inner rage...

when this team accquired the likes of Buzbee and Wilson, and lack of sacks became an issue, I started sewing the 3-4/hybrid flag, dude.

That was before Gregg Willams was canned.

RedDMV +1

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

drafting kickers is stupid. Every year a top kicker come up in FA, its a spot that you need to accept is worth 2 million and unlike the other 22 spots on the field its plug and play.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Where is the evidence he's better than Brooks. The stats (they're a big deal up here from what I understand) don't support that position.

And Red, I picked Aaron Brooks because he and Campbell are both black - just like me. Everything isn't racial son. I picked Brooks because he was given several seasons to QB the Saints without any results. Sort of what's happening here.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"Chris Clemons was here for 3 yrs and did nothing of note, how many years should we give people?

Posted by: drewkinnear"

He was here for 2 years, and in his rookie year, he played 6 games and had 3 sacks. I would hardly call that "nothing of note."

Let's not be like Vinny now and make up stats to cover for certain decisions...

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Brooks went to a Pro Bowl and he won a playoff game which for the saints is a big deal.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Cliff Russell is gonna break out!!! they shoulda kept him too!!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:28 PM

LMAO!

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Why did he only play 6 games??? CUZ HE WAS HURT!!!!! Staying on the field is a vital part of being on an NFL team. JEEZ You must be JLC's secret lover, prob underneath his keyboard right now....

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I am just saying that its been going up here for a long long time Red. Peeps have been saying 3-4 forever. I dunno what Buzzbee has to do with it unless your thinking he is a tweener/OLB not a DE.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

They drafted guys like Lohmiller and Akers (currently a Philadelphia Eagle). Lohmiller did pretty well for awhile.

The problem with the veteran kickers is lack of depth and range on kickoffs and field goals. They tried that route. I suspect they may try to go to the draft to solve this problem. Remember this team has had 2 NFL MVP kickers. This is the team where Special Teams as a concept, and a separately coached entity was born. It paid off handsomely.

"drafting kickers is stupid. Every year a top kicker come up in FA, its a spot that you need to accept is worth 2 million and unlike the other 22 spots on the field its plug and play.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

And Red, I picked Aaron Brooks because he and Campbell are both black - just like me. Everything isn't racial son. I picked Brooks because he was given several seasons to QB the Saints without any results. Sort of what's happening here.

Posted by: learnedhand1

-----

Steve McNair also had several seasons to QB his team without any results. It took him 4 seasons to crack the 80 passer rating mark (he had 80.1 in his 4th year), and didn't crack 90 until his 7th year. Campbell has far outplayed him to this point in his career. It's a matter of perspective.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

they should not draft anyone under 300 pounds the first day

Posted by: jnicol2 | January 12, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

I highly doubt that the discussion of switching to a 3-4 is ever spoken within the coaching staff. The Skins like what they have on defense, for the most part. Why fix it, if it ain't broken? Or something like that?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

And Red, I picked Aaron Brooks because he and Campbell are both black - just like me. Everything isn't racial son. I picked Brooks because he was given several seasons to QB the Saints without any results. Sort of what's happening here.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 4:32 PM

Dude, I know the emoticons are sort of new school, and aren't used by many here but chill, fam. The :) is a smiley face. Not that I'd smile at you but it would be better than a ;) which is a wink.

That is if you didn't know, but trying to paint me like the "typical angry black guy", I'd assume you didn't.

Not that it'd be something wrong or implied if a grown man were to smile and or wink at you.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Let's go to the WIKI:
Richie Petitbone, Greg Williams, Greg Blache and of course the venerable George Allen versus well guys like Wade Philips, and Monte Kiflin:

______________________________________________

Strengths of the 3-4 include speedy MLBs and OLBs in pursuit of backs in run defense and flexibility to use multiple rushers to confuse the quarterback during passing plays without being forced into man-to-man defense on receivers. Most teams try to disrupt the offense's passing attack by rushing four defenders. In a standard 4-3 alignment, these four rushers are usually the four down linemen. But in a 3-4, the fourth rusher is usually a linebacker, though many teams, such as the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens, use a talented safety to blitz and confuse the coverage, giving them that many more defensive options in the same 3-4 look. However, since there are four linebackers and four defensive backs, the fourth potential rusher can come from any of eight defensive positions. This is designed to confuse the quarterback's pre-snap defensive read.

A drawback of the 3-4 is that without a fourth lineman to take on the offensive blockers and close the running lanes, both the defensive linemen and the linebackers can be overwhelmed by blocking schemes in the running game. To be effective, 3-4 linebackers need their defensive line to routinely tie up a minimum of four (preferably all five) offensive linemen, freeing them to make tackles. The 3-4 linebackers must be very athletic and strong enough to shed blocks by fullbacks, tight ends, and offensive linemen to get to the running back. In most cases, 3-4 OLBs lead their teams in quarterback sacks.[4]

Usually, teams that run a 3-4 defense look for college “tweeners”—defensive ends that are too small to play the position in the pros and not quite fluid enough to play outside linebacker in a 4-3 defense—as their 3-4 outside linebacker. According to NFL coach Wade Phillips, 3-4 linebackers “are a little bit cheaper, and you can find more of them,” while “it's harder to find defensive linemen to play a 4-3 and pay for all of them.”[5]

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,
We have done the young kicker thing for the past few years too, and we know the results of that.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Why did he only play 6 games??? CUZ HE WAS HURT!!!!! Staying on the field is a vital part of being on an NFL team. JEEZ You must be JLC's secret lover, prob underneath his keyboard right now....

Posted by: drewkinnear

--------

Easy Vinny....

He wasn't hurt that year. He played 6 games because he wasn't added to the active roster until late in the season due to being an undrafted FA. He got hurt the next season, tearing his ACL.

Keep on with the plain incorrect facts Vinny.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Now the 4-3

Defensive Tackles

There are two defensive tackles in the 4-3 scheme. The first defensive tackle is called the nose guard. The nose guard is generally a little bigger and stronger and plays a one technique which means he lines up on either outside shoulder of the center depending on which way the strength of the play is going. The nose guard's primary job is to stop the run and take on the double team (which is getting blocked by two offensive linemen) thus freeing up the linebackers to make a play. The second defensive tackle (simply referred to as the defensive tackle or three tech) is generally a bit quicker and faster than the nose guard, ideally weighing close to 300 pounds (140 kg) but quick-footed enough to shoot through a gap at the snap.[2] He plays a three technique meaning he lines up on the outside shoulder of the strong side offensive guard. The job of a three tech is to: prevent the run, keep the guard off linebackers, and rush the quarterback on pass plays.

Defensive Ends

“ Teams that want to use a standard 4-3 scheme often face a dilemma: there aren't enough great defensive ends to go around. Players like Julius Peppers or Jevon Kearse come along about once per year in the draft. ”

—Mike Tanier, analyst for NFL on FOX.[2]

The defensive end's primary role in the 4-3 defense is to get to the quarterback and create pressure. The 4-3 DE's are the smallest of all of the defensive lineman due to their emphasis of speed over strength. They still need to be strong enough to fight their way past offensive tackles, yet quick enough to pursue the running backs on runs to the outside. Ideal 4-3 defensive ends are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up field with quickness and lean, and they usually weight between 260 and 275 pounds (118 and 125 kg).[3] Right ends, who line up against the offensive left tackle and attack the quarterback from the blind side, are usually the best athletes on the line, combining a 275-pound body with incredible quickness and agility to outflank blockers who are bigger and heavier.[2] Defensive ends generally play the 1 gap technique, though will occasionally be forced to play a 2 gap in the event of a TE pinching in to block on run plays. They also in most schemes are responsible for keeping the quarterback from rolling out of the pocket to make big gains running.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

The 4-3 continued:

Linebackers

Middle Linebacker

There is only one inside linebacker in the 4-3 scheme, so he is called the Middle linebacker, sometimes known as the “Mike” linebacker. He must be as smart as he is athletic, acts as the “quarterback of the defense” and is often the defensive leader.[2] The primary responsibility of the “Mike” is to stop the run, though he will often be asked to fall back in zone coverage in pass protection, man 2 man pass coverage has him assigned to the fullback typically. The MLB is often the largest and strongest of all of the linebackers. The 4-3 Defense relies on having a sure tackler at the middle linebacker spot. Notable MLBs include Mike Singletary, Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis.

Outside Linebackers

As in the 3-4 there are two outside linebackers in the 4-3. These outside backers are known as the Strong-Side and Weak-Side Linebackers. The Strong-Side, or “Sam” linebacker, is so named because he typically sticks to the strong side of the defense, across from the TE. The “Sam” does his fair share of blitzing, however he also needs to play the run and will usually be relied upon to cover the tight end or potentially a back out of the backfield. The Weak-Side, or “Will” linebacker, will generally play on the weak side and has more freedom than the other LBs, often blitzing the QB or guarding against the screen.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Jeez

Mrs La Canfora

Chris Clemons had 4 sacks and 18 tackles this year. Good Grief. You must be in a bad mood cuz Jason didn't give you a kiss on the cheek after you were done today.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Buzbee would definitely be a OLB. Not a DE in a 3-4.

All good fun, I'm chillin... had a couple of chances to spaz on some folks but didn't feel like it, even given it's Monday, the perfect day.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Not a "higher" round pick like a Lohmiller.

"Periculum,
We have done the young kicker thing for the past few years too, and we know the results of that."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Chris Clemons had 4 sacks and 18 tackles this year.

Posted by: drewkinnear

-----

So you're saying he would have led the Redskins in sacks this season. And defensive TDs.

Continue on lowering your credibility my man. Maybe if you talk enough, you'll actually convince yourself.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

they should not draft anyone under 300 pounds the first day

Posted by: jnicol2 | January 12, 2009 4:41 PM

320

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Whatever sweatheart did jason get you new kneepads for xmas?

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Al Saunders (remember him?) take on how you handle a 3-4 defense ...

So how do you stop such a versatile and unpredictable monster like the 3-4? Well, if you watched the Chiefs play the Ravens on Monday Night Football in 2004 there is your answer. Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders put on a clinic that night on how to run right over the top of a 3-4. Control the nose guard and block down on the inside linebackers with your guards. For what the 3-4 has in quickness and deception it also gives up in bulk and power.

The Solid 4-3
The 4-3 is based on disrupting things in the middle with physical play and attacking from the edges with speed. It is traditionally a very aggressive defense and over the years its general philosophy changed very little.

In the 4-3 you tend to see more man-to-man defense than zone assignments. It is also obvious that the defensive line takes a much more active role in pursuing the run and rushing the passer. “Line stunts” on the defensive line are another mainstay of the 4-3. “Line stunts” are designed defensive plays where defensive linemen cross and loop over one another in order to break free from offensive linemen.

If done correctly the 4-3 is also very strong against the run. The defensive ends and outside linebackers are supposed to pinch things to the inside for the defensive tackles, middle linebacker, and strong safety to clean up. The two defensive tackles also make it much more difficult for the offensive line to reach the “MIKE” backer.

Though the 4-3 is much more predictable than the 3-4 it is also more balanced against the run and the pass. For that reason you will continue to see the 4-3 remain as the more common defense throughout the NFL. However, fundamentally neither defense is better or worse. You play to the strengths of your personnel and the weaknesses of your opponent.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Chris Clemons wants his turn after your done also

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

overall as usual we have many many needs..... in my mind however what seperates us from being a playoff team instead of a pretender are impact players..... our biggest need is for someone or someones who change the game...unless one of the top Ot prospects falls I think we draft DL...i would make an effort to sign sproles or ward...or i suppose haynesworth....signing just one of those guys, but not all would give us a difference maker.... also takes more than a couple years to evaluate a draft.... if if if the three recievers really contribute and reinhardt cracks the lineup to go along with the 2 saftey's that already look like players, then maybe vinny does know what he is doing......just kidding....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | January 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

don't forget Nic too sweetheart

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

CHRIS CLEMONS FOR HOF!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

The 4-3 isn't the problem. Its the DE's that can't pass rush. A 3-4 doesn't solve that

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

QB Comp% YDS TD INT RAT
Joe Flacco 60.0% 2971 14 12 80.3
K. Warner 67.1% 4583 30 14 96.9
B. Roethlisberger 59.9% 3301 17 15 80.1
D. McNabb 60.4% 3916 23 11 86.4
J. Campbell 62.3% 3245 13 6 84.3

So, you've got the 4 QB's in the Championship games vs. our man Campbell. I think these numbers show that he is certainly capable of taking us deep in the playoffs. The only one he doesn't compare to is Warner who played out of his mind this year. The one glaring difference is TDs. With the exception of Arizona, I wouldn't say that the other teams have much better WR corps. So why does Campbell only have 13 TDs? Play calling!

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Not tryin' to be hype man here, but did psps just tapped out on argument?

5th sign of the apocalypse.

3-4 supporters = new school

4-3 supporters = old school

If the upcoming events on Jan. 20th haven't taught us anything, it has taught us that change is imminent, must happen, and is a good thing.

Sorry.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

The 4-3 isn't the problem. Its the DE's that can't pass rush. A 3-4 doesn't solve that

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

IT ABSOLUTELY DOES, it allows the LB/Tweener ends to blitz more instead of being dependent on getting pressure from your down lineman, which we can't do! A 3-4 would allow our tweeners, Carter, Jackson, Wilson to get on the field in areas that highlight their strengths. You can say that Carter struggled in San Fran as a LB, but that was in a 4-3 system still, and regardless, other than one mildly good year what has he done here?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I actually feel like a d**k its pathetic that 4 sacks ties the redskins leader. My Bad

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 12, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Steve McNair also had several seasons to QB his team without any results. It took him 4 seasons to crack the 80 passer rating mark (he had 80.1 in his 4th year), and didn't crack 90 until his 7th year. Campbell has far outplayed him to this point in his career. It's a matter of perspective.

Wrong again. McNair won games. McNair didn't become a full-time starter until his third season (he won both games he started as a rookie - 81 qb rating and was 2-2 in the 4 gms in started in his second season - 90 qb rtg). In his third season as a fulltime starter, he was 9-2 and by his 4th he was 12-3. There is no comparison between McNair and Campbell.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

QB Comp% YDS TD INT RAT
Joe Flacco 60.0% 2971 14 12 80.3
K. Warner 67.1% 4583 30 14 96.9
B. Roethlisberger 59.9% 3301 17 15 80.1
D. McNabb 60.4% 3916 23 11 86.4
J. Campbell 62.3% 3245 13 6 84.3

So, you've got the 4 QB's in the Championship games vs. our man Campbell. I think these numbers show that he is certainly capable of taking us deep in the playoffs. The only one he doesn't compare to is Warner who played out of his mind this year. The one glaring difference is TDs. With the exception of Arizona, I wouldn't say that the other teams have much better WR corps. So why does Campbell only have 13 TDs? Play calling!


Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 5:03 PM

While I agree that Campbell is capable of carrying this team to the playoffs, you forgot to mention that with the exception of Warner (Ari), BAL, PIT, and even at times PHI their defenses are the stronger part of those teams.
So far these playoffs, you may have to include the 'cards in there too.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree RED and the Skins are in the same boat, right behind PIT, BAL, and PHI. So, if we look at the playoffs in terms of top defenses and QB's who can manage games, I have two questions.
1)Why is everyone so down on Campbell?
2)Why the hell didn't our D get us to the playoffs?

Posted by: bnc211 | January 12, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

zjfr ... Carter just isn't a top player and it won't matter what scheme he is in. Wilson and Jackson haven't proven anything.

Our 4-3 did just fine, considering the modest talent/injuries. A good pass rush is probably the #1 cause of most turnovers, but when you have a 4 man line and don't get pressure, that's a talent issue and a 3-4 doesn't improve that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

1)Why is everyone so down on Campbell?
2)Why the hell didn't our D get us to the playoffs?

1) Because in my 30 years of being a Skins fan, I have never seen a town that loves to get down on the QB first and foremost if the team struggles. JC isn't a HOFer but he is better than half the league which is pretty good. Our problems, which the owner and E. VP don't get just like most fans isn't the QB or WRs, its our inability to protect the qb and our utter lack of ability to get pressure of force turnovers. JC had 6 picks all year and we still had a 0 turnover ratio, that's pitiful.

2) Ibid, this is a good defense that nobody is scared of cause we don't sack the qb and until Hall got here we hardly ever caught INTs. We're good not great and teams know if they can get a lead more than likely they'll win cause we couldn't force turnovers or score points quickly. an average team all around, with a below average offense and a good but not good enough to carry a team good defense cause of the lack of turnovers.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

zjfr ... Carter just isn't a top player and it won't matter what scheme he is in. Wilson and Jackson haven't proven anything.

Our 4-3 did just fine, considering the modest talent/injuries. A good pass rush is probably the #1 cause of most turnovers, but when you have a 4 man line and don't get pressure, that's a talent issue and a 3-4 doesn't improve that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 12, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

It is a talent issue, that's my point, we don't have the talent to get pressure from a 4-3 and 1 signing or draft pick isn't going to change that. Therefore we should change our scheme to try to get pressure from the talents of Jackson and Wilson, maybe they haven't proven anything, but they never will on the bench, and Carter, Evans, Daniels, and Taylor have all more than proven they can't get it done.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 12, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

bnc211, I think people want Campbell to categorey be among the top 10 QBs in the league. So many of us, including myself at times get hung up on stats.

The truth is, he doesn't have to be. If he had confidence in his WRs to catch the ball or if his WRs were physical enough to go up and fight for the ball (height?), maybe he'll have those gaudy numbers we salivate over.

Some of it also could be on Zorn not trusting neither Campbell or the WRs to call those plays enough to keep the opposing defenses guessing.

It could also be that Zorn knows Campbell's strengths and weaknesses (we should hope so), and STRONGLY advises him not to throw those passes downfield.

Maybe Campbell doesn't trust himself to make those throws that NFL QBs have to make during the course of a game.

The thing is that we (the fans) will never know, so we have to list hypothetics and assume. Hell, even some alleged "reporters" and wanna be analyzers have to do this from time to time.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

1)Why is everyone so down on Campbell?
2)Why the hell didn't our D get us to the playoffs?

No 1 is the answer to No. 2. The 1, 2, 3 rated defensive teams make the playoffs. The No. 4 rated defensive team - with the leagues 8th rated rushing attack - doesn't make the playoffs. Why? Because the coach doesn't trust the franchise QB enough to open up the O just a little bit. And when given the chance to throw, the franchise qb holds the ball too long.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

should've said "categorically" be among...

who gives an F anyway? oh yeah, some pressed bama...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

The problem on the offensive line is up the middle -- the center and the 2 guards. Pete Kendall is definitely done, Rabach had a ton of trouble, and Randy Thomas was bothered by nagging injuries. The Redskins couldn't block the other teams' defensive tackles, this was the problem against Pittsburgh, Dallas, NY Giants, even Cincinnati and SF.

Yes, Heyer did beat out Jansen until he was injured.

We need to draft a defensive left end, defensive tackle, and a strong-side linebacker to take Marcus Washington's place.

We also need to draft a guard and center.

Therefore, we should not draft an offensive tackle in the first round, especially since so many are projected to already be taken by the time we draft (12th). Do you want the 2nd DE or the 6th OT?

We need a general manager who knows what he is doing!

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 12, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Chris Gocong of Philly is an example of a "tweener". Guy from a small CSU.

With the right "Mike" (Washington) and weak side linebacker (Arrington) you have the capability to run the 4-3 effectively with a pass rush with the linemen currently in place. Yes, it would help to get a premier defensive end like a Jevon Kearse. But those are very rare.

But you do have Evans, Carter, Taylor, Daniels, Jackson, Wilson.

At tackle you still have Griffin, Montgomery, Golston, and Alexander.

Obviously not all will stay. But can you now see the strategy of Williams and now Blache? A STRONG safety (La Ron Landry, Ed Reed) would make all the difference with an excellent "Mike" (Washington). McIntosh makes a good weakside.

Does the linebacking need improvement? Yes, definitely due to age and injury like the OL. Does the DL. Age and injury do not appear to impact it as much thanks to the rotation schemes developed by grilliams and blache.

But a Kearse type DE could make a HUGE difference all things being equal. But they aren't. Washington was hurt most of the year. McIntosh has bad knees. We don't what is going to happen to Carlos Rogers. With Shawn Spring's age.

So, it appears that you would have the same problems implementing a 3-4 perhaps? You would still need linebackers. Yes, maybe Jackson, Taylor and Wilson could be converted. But then you'd need that special breed of nose tackle required in the 3-4 to continue to be effective against the run. Someone who requires up to 3 guys to block him.

The 4-3 does seem much more effective against the rush. With the Redskins current defensive backfield they seem to be able to play man defense effectively. Really its the linebacking that requires improvement.

So, I wonder what would be different about converting a Wilson or Jackson into a 4-3 linebacker versus a 3-4? Are they too slow? They can't be too small? Wilson seems to have a lot of speed. As does Jackson?

"It is a talent issue, that's my point, we don't have the talent to get pressure from a 4-3 and 1 signing or draft pick isn't going to change that. Therefore we should change our scheme to try to get pressure from the talents of Jackson and Wilson, maybe they haven't proven anything, but they never will on the bench, and Carter, Evans, Daniels, and Taylor have all more than proven they can't get it done."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

First we need to fix the OL. Bugel needs to get over the veteran loyalty thing (if true) and start training the youth again as he did in the past.

Samuels needs to move to right tackle where he can be an effective run blocker next to Randy Thomas (for now). And extend his career. On the left side it may make sense to go with a 1st round pick + Rhinehart. But you still need that replacement for Thomas and backups for your tackles in addition to Heyer. So, you still need another guard/tackle like a Ray Brown or Raleigh McKenzie (who was also a center). Jensen is here for at least another year. So, that means Fabini is gone. You still need a backup center. Fred Davis needs to step up as a blocker.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

The 2nd DE may not be able to displace Evans and Carter. And Taylor, if they resign him, is an all-pro.

So, you basically draft a backup.

The OT would assuredly start at least at right tackle. The next pick, and OG would start at least at left guard, if Rhinehart doesn't.

"Do you want the 2nd DE or the 6th OT?

We need a general manager who knows what he is doing!

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 12, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

No, he struggled in a 3-4 after starting off in a 4-3. With Singletary (Chicago again) of course you will see a 4-3. :)


"You can say that Carter struggled in San Fran as a LB, but that was in a 4-3 system still"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

As Billary might say its the KICKER stupid! That's 2-3 games right there if you think about it. And yes this team could ostensibly be where Philly is.

"1)Why is everyone so down on Campbell?
2)Why the hell didn't our D get us to the
playoffs?"

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I don't know, Andy Reid and McNabb (Mr. sour grapes) did not seem too happy ... not at all happy when they lost 10-3. Now did they? ~grin~
Then Dallas had to come along and put the happy face on mr. pouty.

"this is a good defense that nobody is scared of cause we don't sack the qb and until Hall got here we hardly ever caught INTs."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

1)Why is everyone so down on Campbell?
2)Why the hell didn't our D get us to the playoffs?

No 1 is the answer to No. 2. The 1, 2, 3 rated defensive teams make the playoffs. The No. 4 rated defensive team - with the leagues 8th rated rushing attack - doesn't make the playoffs. Why? Because the coach doesn't trust the franchise QB enough to open up the O just a little bit. And when given the chance to throw, the franchise qb holds the ball too long.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse


LH,
You could argue that it was because of bad punting and bad field goal kicking too. Field position and a couple of field goals would have made the difference.

I think we can all agree that the Skins might have made the playoffs, if for a few small things. We would all agree too that if they did make the playoffs, it would probably end as it did last year.

We just got to get better. And we will.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 12, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

trade down in the draft get 5-6 picks namely OL DL LB RB etc. sign 3 free agents 28yrs old or younger, OL DL LB (or wr who has experience in washingtons passing game). RELEASE: taylor, washington, jansen, fabini, smoot, kendall ,rabach(too many mistakes and too small) thrash,trade randle el. watching this team/so-called organization is ridiculous.

Posted by: wathu19 | January 12, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse


+++How did Jansen "beat him out"? The coach stuck with Jansen once Heyer had recovered. There was no competition. NOw when there was competition for the RT spot, i.e. training camp, Heyer won the starting job.

Posted by: learnedhand1++


Uh-huh. Heyer won the job several MONTHS prior. Meanwhile, Jansen with more time to recover, earned the position back with his play during practice and on the field, obviously.

Why bust the spirit of a young tackle-of-the-future if he's outplaying an old injured vet on his way out? Especially,hen he started ahead of him before?

Neither of us saw the practices, of course, but it is safe to say a veteran line coach indeed runs a competition (informal or not) to see who is best qualified to play.

I

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

SKIPPY CALLED

++++he Truth would like to remind Flounder that his theory that the vets pressued Zorn into starting Jansen is just The Truth's own theory.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 12, 2009 11:02 AM +++


The Lil Platehead said Truth is a "Copycrate and a Polytheist" for writing in the third person after observing Skippy do so.

Skippy writes in the Third person "not because of his missive Yugo, but because of menial slipage in the old buttlerbean, caused with the insertion of his plate."

Skippy says another bothersome side effect is he can "never find his Merkin."

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

The 3-4 vs. 4-3

The problem is that we don't have an excess of good linebackers to go to a 3-4.

Posted by: charley42 | January 12, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

I see so much jibba-jabber I'm not sure I can read it all.

I think for the most part, JLC has summed up the salient facts.

However:

I wouldn't rule out Michael Oher, the Mississippi senior tackle from Michael Lewis' book "The Blind Side," though. He was passed by some other SEC tackles and has slipped a bit. It's a guess at this point, but his quasi-fame would seem to fit the profile of what the team usually goes for.

This seems condescending to me. Michael Oher 2005: Played in all 11 games, starting the last 10 at right guard. 2006-2008: Started in 36 games at left tackle.

That's awesome durability. If the Redskins are lucky enough to be able to draft him, they should do so because he can be the next Chris Samuels for the next 10 years.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 12, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Uh-huh. Heyer won the job several MONTHS prior. Meanwhile, Jansen with more time to recover, earned the position back with his play during practice and on the field, obviously.
Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 7:35 PM
============================================
So how would you rate Jansen's O.L. play in the 2nd half of the season, TheCork?

I didn't get to see all of the games, but what I did see caused me to think we had better draft offensive linemen with our first 2 picks this year.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 12, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

periculum

Converting Chris Wilson, 6'4'', 247 lbs. seems doable as the guy is a speed rusher--and guys like that usually have the fluid athleticism to play with a hand on the ground or standing up.

Ken Harvey--memba him?-- is a fine example of he kind of player Wilson could be molded into: a speed rushing linebacker who can play the run.

The major point about going 4-3, 3-4 is that the teams who do it create confusion with blocking schemes, get sacks, disrupt playcalling, and, as is the case with the stillers and the ravens, get turnovers.

The pressure they create hurries throws. I wonder about how many of Ed Reed's INTs were also the result of a quarterback passing the ball for fear of Suggs crushing him.

With the sorry state of the Skins offensive right now, maybe getting the ball back to it during games due to turnovers brought on by pressure/confusion is a smart way for the defensive to help the offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

"Steve McNair also had several seasons to QB his team without any results. It took him 4 seasons to crack the 80 passer rating mark (he had 80.1 in his 4th year), and didn't crack 90 until his 7th year. Campbell has far outplayed him to this point in his career. It's a matter of perspective."

Wrong again. McNair won games. McNair didn't become a full-time starter until his third season (he won both games he started as a rookie - 81 qb rating and was 2-2 in the 4 gms in started in his second season - 90 qb rtg). In his third season as a fulltime starter, he was 9-2 and by his 4th he was 12-3. There is no comparison between McNair and Campbell.

Posted by: learnedhand1

-------

This settles it. You've convinced me. As wins are the only thing that determines a QB's performance, we need to sign Rex Grossman as soon as possible. 19-11 record as a starter, .633 winning percentage, Rex Grossman is on pace to be one of the top 10 QBs of all time.

Steve McNair, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly -- they have nothing on Grossman. Clearly he's worthy of the HOF due to having a higher winning percentage than every one of these guys, as well as making it as deep as them in the postseason. It's so simple. The answer has been in front of us all along.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Just looked at SI's top QB's of all time, in no particular order

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Dan Marino
John Elway
Brett Favre

Not a bad list, but here's my question...Are any of the following better than any of the above?

a) Dan Fouts
b) Steve Young
c) Sammy Baugh (duh!)
d) Roger Staubach
e) Troy Aikman
f)

Posted by: rickyroge | January 12, 2009 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell ain't no Steve McNair.

Posted by: rickyroge | January 12, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

"In his third season as a fulltime starter, he was 9-2 and by his 4th he was 12-3."

Posted by: learnedhand1

----

So let's get this straight. You're comparing McNair's 5th season in the league, and 3rd as a full-time starter, to Jason Campbell's 4th year in the league and 2nd as a full-time starter?

Can I ask a simple question? What was Mcnair's record his 4th season in the league, and 2nd as a starter?

(HINT: It's the exact same as Jason Campbell's.)

Don't let that bias affect your argument buddy.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell ain't no Steve McNair.

Posted by: rickyroge"

No, he's not, just as Flacco ain't no Troy Aikman. They both, however, have a LOT of career ahead of them.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

f)

Posted by: rickyroge | January 12, 2009 8:17 PM
============================================
f) Sonny Jurgenson!

(Hey I'm a Reskins fan, and proud of it.)

P.S. Sammy Baugh belongs on anybody's list of great QBs, and such as.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 12, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

psp23, you are the lord of obfuscation. I asked whether JC is as good as Aaron Brooks. You respond by making a comparison between McNair and JC. I show how your facts are wrong and demonstrate that there really is no comparison. You respond by talking about Rex Grossman's winning percentage. Huh? What does that have to do with you comparing JC to McNair? Let's stay focused. I know what McNair's record was. But his 8-8 was different from JCs. He made plays with his arms and his feet and he didn't have the 4th ranked defense.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Then I fail to see the reason he couldn't be converted to a linebacker in the 4-3 ... other than he can't stop the run. You'd have the same problem in a 3-4? Wouldn't you?

"Converting Chris Wilson, 6'4'', 247 lbs. seems doable as the guy is a speed rusher--and guys like that usually have the fluid athleticism to play with a hand on the ground or standing up.

Ken Harvey--memba him?-- is a fine example of he kind of player Wilson could be molded into: a speed rushing linebacker who can play the run."

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

"I know what McNair's record was. But his 8-8 was different from JCs."

Posted by: learnedhand1

So the "he wins games" argument only counts when it fits your position. Got it. Good to know you can pull a 180 whenever you feel like it.

Just to refresh our memory:

"Wrong again. McNair won games. McNair didn't become a full-time starter until his third season (he won both games he started as a rookie - 81 qb rating and was 2-2 in the 4 gms in started in his second season - 90 qb rtg). In his third season as a fulltime starter, he was 9-2 and by his 4th he was 12-3. There is no comparison between McNair and Campbell.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Stay focused indeed. Don't let that bias affect your position.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

"He made plays with his arms and his feet"

Posted by: learnedhand1

So which is it? He won games or he made plays?

By the way, 4th season in the league, 2nd as a full starter:

Steve McNair
Record: 8-8
Passer Rating: 80.1
Completion %: 58.7
Yards: 3228
TDs: 15
INTs: 10
Rush yards: 554 yards, 4 TDs

Jason Campbell
Record: 8-8
Passer Rating: 84.3
Completion %: 62.3
Yards: 3245
TDs: 13
INTs: 6
Rush yards: 258 yards, 1 TD

Just posted this in case you decided to ignore the facts.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

psp23, just like your view about Sproles being franchised, time will tell if JC is the player you believe him to be. I've seen enough to know he's just so so.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Although I concur that Suisham had a bad season he is not the reason they did not make the playoffs. In the seven Skin losses Susiham was 8 for 11. His misses were against Dallas (second game), Giants, and Baltimore. None of these games were lost by a field goal or less. Granted making these kicks could have changed momentium but there is no way to know.

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 12, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

periculum

Point taken about Wilson and the run stopping issue.

But I'm still sold on the idea of turning him or someone on the linebacker portion of the Skins' roster loose on q-backs to get some turnovers/hurried throws.

BTW: The Steve McNair v. Jason Campbell battle is a draw.

McNair was able to play in a stable situation: factor that into the stats.

Campbell really has been hurt by coaches who won't fit their offense to his arm/abilities. And it's not his fault the FO let the offensive line go without the occasional talent infusion needed to succeed in today's game.

Hopefully, Zorn will let him throw more from the shotgun or use max protection, 2-man routes and let him throw the ball up into the center of a defense. That seems to be the best place for him to be a passer.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 12, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Did you ever see McNair play? He was always better than JC. Stats or no stats. And he didn't come out of college having played against the best talent in the nation.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 12, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Who said Suisham is the reason the 'skins didn't make the playoffs?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 12, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"When I baught mine online I got two controllers and two Numchucks with it." I got three num chiks with mine.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 12, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

I saw several posts earlier stating that if the Skins had a better kicker they might have won enough games to make the playoffs. Unfortunately did not have time to respond until now.

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 12, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

"psp23, just like your view about Sproles being franchised, time will tell if JC is the player you believe him to be. I've seen enough to know he's just so so.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

-------

Fair enough. You've seen enough to know he's just so so, while I've seen enough to know he's more than capable of being a pro-bowl level player (should his help ever arrive). We'll leave it at that.

Posted by: psps23 | January 12, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

They will need some depth and I don't see them bringing back Jason Fabini. They survived two seasons with him and got what were likely his final effective outings.

Oops, I forgot that part. Perhaps in the Bush era, effective has a different meaning?

Thank goodness, it's over.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 12, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

There is something the Skins must do..Sign Gross as a FA, move Samuels to Left guard, use the 13th pick for a right tackle, let Kendall and Thomas spell each other at RG and let Hayer and Jansen be back ups..That would be a start..

Posted by: Dkessler1 | January 12, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Tim Tebow is a bigger, left-handed version of Billy Kilmer (who doesn't drink or cuss)

Kilmer was a single wing tailback originally, who was converted to QB. He threw the ugliest ball in the world.

But NOBODy was a tougher competitor.

His nickname was Old Furnace Face.

Sure, Tebow is being projected asasecond da, which is why he went back to Fla, perhaps.

I think he'll be a great pro.

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse


Team NEEDS:

TWO Olinemen, minimum
RB
Mebbe receivers...
Kicker
Punter
DE
DT
Two LBs
If Rogers leaves, CB

Last year with TEN draftees and VINNY drafting, skins produced one starter.

THIS year, 'skins have four draft picks and Vinny drafting.

But by all means, speculate on who the team should take. That's the fun of the offseason.

But why, oh why should we be Optimistic?

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

The only solid units are:

-secondary (if we can keep it together)
-RB
-TE
-QB

The LB core is aging. The DL lacks a pass rush. The OL is over the hill. The WRs are only 2 deep and a healthy Moss is the only serious threat.

There are a lot of slots to fill, with cap issues all over the place.

I'm thinking/concerned that Danny is counting on a collapse in the collective bargaining agreement to void the cap issues. While it might be positive for the Skins and other big spending teams, its not good for the game. Danny and the other owners need to think of the game first.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 12:08 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Vinnie will miss on the 1st pick if he goes OT. He will miss if he trades down as he did last year. That would be a huge mistake.

The third pick should be a guard/center preferably a guy like Russ Grimm. Maybe better if they can find someone who can also play tackle like Rhinehart purportedly can.

After that you go kicker or best athlete available.

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 12:10 AM | Report abuse

The defense needs two things only if they sign Hall (and hopefully preferably Rogers)

1. An OLB free agent of Washington's caliber
2. A DE that can rush the passer.

Now, 2 might be resolved if they resign Jason Taylor to a significantly smaller contract. But that's just for next year. He is 34.
So, you go for a young FA linebacker. And wait on the DE for next year's draft.


Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Sproles won't be franchised, since that requires SD to pay him big bucks.

Sproles is a case of me out thinking myself. I knew how good Sproles was at the start of the year. So I grabbed him for my FF team, figuring he'd get plenty of touches because he's so dangerous. Plus, if LT got hurt, Norv would have no problem giving Sproles the playing time. Sounds logical.

But I forgot what an idiot Norv is. Norv played a hurting LT game after game and Sproles had very few touches until SD was pretty much out of it. Only in the final couple weeks ... after FF was done ... did Norv finally realize what was obvious. Sproles is dynamite. (Peter King of SI frequently wrote on Norv's failure to use Sproles, he couldn't understand it, either)

While I'd love to see Sproles in burgundy and gold, he's not going to solve any of our key problems. Sproles is anxious to get to a team where he can be an every down back ... and Portis has that role (and paycheck) here. The good news is I don't see Sproles in the NFC East, either, though jerruh might go for him. New England seems like a perfect fit for Sproles, where he and Maroney can split the carries.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Sproles is a knee injury away from retirement. He's too small to last as anything other than a 3rd down back in the NFL.

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 1:27 AM | Report abuse

It would be interesting to see how other QBs would have performed behind the Skins offensive line...

By the end of the year, they could not pass block for more than two seconds; due to injuries.

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 1:42 AM | Report abuse

Sproles is a knee injury away from retirement.

Posted by: siris

So is every other RB in this league. Knee injuries have ended a lot of careers.

I agree that Sproles isn't a heavy duty RB. Though he'd be deadly in a shared scheme like Carolina has. 10-15 touches a game -- 200 or so in a year. He's like westbrook, but faster. Those guys are scary.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:59 AM | Report abuse

Egads! Denver is not going to hire a GM:

"[Broncos' Owner] Bowlen said he changed his mind about hiring a general manager and indicated his top adviser, personnel chief Jim Goodman, would have an increased role instead."

OK, JLC, let's hear from you now about how the Broncos are doomed to fail since they have no GM.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 13, 2009 2:19 AM | Report abuse

JLC - aka "The Len Pasquarelli of the Washington Post."

Posted by: hithere1 | January 13, 2009 2:21 AM | Report abuse

JLC and Pasquarelli comparisons:

1) Both are Italian American.
2) Both hate the Redskins.
3) Both like to use words they don't fully understand (see JLC's use of "caucus" from the running back evaluation post, then look up the word).
4) Both are fat.

Ta Da!

Posted by: hithere1 | January 13, 2009 2:24 AM | Report abuse

JLC - aka "The Len Pasquarelli of the Washington Post."

Posted by: hithere1

That's cold, bro

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 2:36 AM | Report abuse

"And when given the chance to throw, the franchise qb holds the ball too long." It only makes sense to throw when your receivers are open. The Skins' receivers are usually covered like an upholstery store.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 13, 2009 2:49 AM | Report abuse

OK, JLC, let's hear from you now about how the Broncos are doomed to fail since they have no GM.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 13, 2009 2:19 AM

No, no, no, that opinion is reserved soley for us.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 7:21 AM | Report abuse

JLC - aka "The Len Pasquarelli of the Washington Post."

Posted by: hithere1

That's cold, bro

Posted by: zcezcest1

I thought it was funny.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 13, 2009 7:23 AM | Report abuse

His nickname was Old Furnace Face.

Sure, Tebow is being projected asasecond da, which is why he went back to Fla, perhaps.

I think he'll be a great pro.

Posted by: TheCork | January 12, 2009 11:43 PM

Old Furnace Face. What a great nick name. Doesn't sound to flattering though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

Egads! Denver is not going to hire a GM:

"[Broncos' Owner] Bowlen said he changed his mind about hiring a general manager and indicated his top adviser, personnel chief Jim Goodman, would have an increased role instead."

OK, JLC, let's hear from you now about how the Broncos are doomed to fail since they have no GM.

Posted by: hithere1

Ahh, projections are such a dangerous sport. If you recall JLac (and a good deal of the fans) did give Vinny/Danny quite a few seasons of rope by which to hang themselves. The difference in Denver might be that Bolen is not Snyder and Cerrato is not Goodman, which all in all is a good place to start. Now if the Broncos spend their first three draft picks on receivers this year, then I see them being fair game for comparisons.

Posted by: driley | January 13, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

Hello from Phoenix everyone. I think the fastest way for the 'Skins to rise to the top of the "beast" is a mean, aggressive DEFENSE!! We lack playmakers and DEFENSE wins championships. Our team has more holes than swiss cheese, but constructing a young D would be a great foundation and in this division...PS I think the Cards will beat Philly.

Posted by: fullonfully | January 13, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

YO FOLKS


The Giants are looking at trying to get Plax back, but if not will either be looking at free agency or the draft to replace him.

They have three picks in the first 2 rounds. The dropoff in WR from Maclin and Crabtree to Heyward-Bay and the rest is pretty significant (Heyward-Bay had a pretty average year this year).

They might be an option to trade out of #13 with if the top 4 tackles are gone.


The Giants currently have :

#29 overall
2nd round #14
2nd round #29

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Wow dude, you really think the Cardinals will beat the Iggles? Really? Really?

They're playing pretty well, and they also played 2 games against the biggest fraud since Bush vs. Palm Beach Board of Elections. The NFC South.

I think the run ends. Philly's defense is way too good, McNabb is no Del-dumbass, and Michael Westbrook will run all over the field.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I think you meant Brian Westbrook...

I can definitely see the Cardinals beating the Eagles. Larry Fitzgerald is inhuman, and if Boldin comes back, they have the best 1-2 punch at WR that I can remember watching in a long time (in fact, I'm having a tough time thinking of a better tandem).

The x-factor is which Warner we will see. Will it be the MVP Warner, the guy that diagnoses blitzes in a split-second and gets the ball to his top guys in stride? Or will it be end-of-Rams career Warner, who holds the ball way too long, just asking for a Dawkins strip-sack?

I don't think the game will come down to Philly's O vs. Cards' D. It will be won in the opposite matchup.

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

uh our defense has not been able to get to the opposing qb since 05-06. before that!!?? You gotta go back to the 91 season.. I love how we refuse to address dline or linebackers. Oline I guess is a need but it still pisses me off that we refuse to address this area and probably wont again. Lookin forward to another 20 sack season from the d.

Posted by: armst012 | January 13, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Although I concur that Suisham had a bad season he is not the reason they did not make the playoffs. In the seven Skin losses Susiham was 8 for 11. His misses were against Dallas (second game), Giants, and Baltimore. None of these games were lost by a field goal or less. Granted making these kicks could have changed momentium but there is no way to know.

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 12, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Thank you for that info. I have noticed a lot of bloggers wanting to throw Swish under the bus. I know he had the lowest rating of kickers in the league, but when I look back at the games we lost, I do not feel that he is our problem. I was disappointed in him, and I feel we need to bring in a FA to push him. But no draft picks. We need OT, OG/C, LB, and D lineman.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

JLC - aka "The Len Pasquarelli of the Washington Post."

Posted by: hithere1
---------------------------------

hahahahaha

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 13, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

but remember Ol' Bug Eyes Vinnie Cerrato DOES NOT DRAFT FOR NEEDS. He takes the best player on the board.

Thats why he blew San Fran a decade ago and hes blowing our team now

Posted by: PJF311 | January 13, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PJF311 | January 13, 2009 9:42 AM | = JLC

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 13, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

San Fran Vinny had the luxury of getting the best roster in the NFL and ride it repeatedly into the playoffs. Give me that roster against any team in NFL history and I bet I could coach them to a win.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

One would probably kick Suisham under the bus.

Posted by: daggar | January 13, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

daggar,
If Shisham tried to kick himself under the buss there is a good chance he will miss and end up on the sidewalk.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

anyone remember that guy Leigh Torrence?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

BROWNS TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL WITH RYAN, DABOLL
Posted by Aaron Wilson on January 13, 2009, 8:50 a.m. EST
Newly-minted Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini hasn’t wasted any time getting his new coordinators up to speed.

New defensive coordinator Rob Ryan and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll have already been in Cleveland doing preliminary work in their new roles even though they’re not expected to be officially announced as hires until today, a source told the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Former Oakland Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan, Ravens defensive coordinator Rex Ryan’s twin brother, and Daboll, the former Jets quarterbacks coach, have already reported for duty. While it’s believed that Daboll has returned to New York, Ryan remains at work on a 3-4 defense in need of a boost.

The article also notes that while there has been speculation that Rob Ryan would be going to work with his brother if he lands a head coaching position (Rex Ryan has been labeled the frontrunner for the Jets and is also a top candidate with the St. Louis Rams after a pair of Sunday interviews), a source told the Plain Dealer that Rob Ryan has made a commitment to stick with Mangini.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

psp, you're right I meant Brian Westbrook.

I think the Cardinals *can* beat the Eagles, I just don't think they will. The Cards have 2 great WR and Warner is playing a lot better than earlier in the year when the Redskins beat them.

But, Jim Johnson will bring guys from everywhere, and I believe that Philly will be able to pressure Warner. Most of the routes that Fitzgerald ran last week took a lot of time to develop, and I don't believe Warner will have that kind of protection.

And Philly can score a lot of points on offense. It's just that they've played some pretty stout defenses lately.


Topic 2: Kicking. It's not Swish'em that is the problem, it's the punting. The Redskins were KILLED in field position this year. The lack of takeaways, and the inability to get more than 32 yards out of a punt when you're backed up inside the 20 was just brutal.

They gave a lot of short fields, not because of turnovers, but because of bad punts.

Bad punting also resulted in a long way to go for the Redskin's offense. It was not explosive enough to score from outside the 40. It was not efficient enough to put together 12-15 play drives reliably. One bad play on first down usually doomed them, requiring heroic measures on third down. Often supplied by Campbell with either his legs or throws. But not often enough.

Remember when Gus Fer-real was the best QB in the league on 3rd down? Problem then was that the offense sucked on 1st and 2nd...

Anyway, the Redskins need a punter who is consistent, and can net in the low 40s. Plackemeier might be that guy, but he needs to be consistent. Those 32 yarders killed the Redskins

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

My revamped offseason plan:

Resign Hall, Evans, Gholston, Monte
Cut Springs, Griff, Washington, Taylor
Do nothing with Rogers, he's under contract and returns to start with Hall, if he shuts up, mans up and plays well, extend him, if not replace him next year.

Sign Grady Jackson or Gabe Watson or both

Sign two of:
Farrior
Barton
Dansby
Crowder

Convert to a 3-4 defense with Jackson/Watson at nose and Gholston, Monte, Alexander, Daniels rotating at ends with Evans in on obvious passing downs.

Have Carter, Wilson, Jackson as your standup blitzers with a combo of Blades, Fincher, McIntosh, Fletcher, and your two signees fill out a deep LB core. (which should also make special teams stronger)

Use the money you saved by not having to go after Suggs, Haynesworth, or Peppers and go get Boldin and Sproles or Ward.

Draft the best Tackle on the board at 13. Draft a guard in the 3rd. Grab a center in the 5th, and in the 6th take the biggest fattest nose tackle you can find and groom him to be the eventual replacement to Jackson/Watson.

Done, by virtue of 3 or 4 very reasonable signings on defense you transform into a unit that has a much better shot getting pressure, and saves you money to add two serious playmakers to the unit that really needs it. Boldin extends Moss' value and career, and Sproles or Ward adds a true home run hitter to the backfield and extends CP's value by reducing his workload.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Done, by virtue of 3 or 4 very reasonable signings on defense you transform into a unit that has a much better shot getting pressure, and saves you money to add two serious playmakers to the unit that really needs it. Boldin extends Moss' value and career, and Sproles or Ward adds a true home run hitter to the backfield and extends CP's value by reducing his workload.


Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:15 AM |

ZJ genious, ZJ super Genious

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

zj, thanks buddy, nicely done.

Can we trade for Tom Brady too??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

dpc2003,
How can Kicking not have been the problem. Swisham was the worst kicker in the league last season, missed more FG than anyone except guys who did not make a full season like Novack, He ranked 30th in kickoff distance with an average of 62.9 yards. His longest 3 pointer was only 50 yards (tied for 24th).

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

while you are correct that the skins need to upgrade the tackle position asap, you sure do have a asine d-bag way to explain it.

eff you jlc

Posted by: jonthefisherman | January 12, 2009 7:25 AM

You are an idiot, and you could use some help with your writing skills.

Posted by: tas73 | January 13, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

don't worry redskins fans, vinny c probably pull a matt millen and draft another receiver. percy harvin pick number 13

Posted by: theborck | January 13, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

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