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Redskins by Position: Tight Ends and Fullbacks

We've come to the first positions that produced Pro Bowlers, and an area where little tinkering is necessary. Chris Cooley returned to the Pro Bowl despite catching just one touchdown pass -- on a gadget pass from a receiver back early in the season. He remains the team's best (only?) true third-down target on intermediate, between-the-hash-marks, high-traffic routes, and teams essentially doubled him for the final 12 weeks of the season to negate his effectiveness.

Cooley put up career bests in catches and yardages, but had very few big games, or even big moments, for that matter. He was used as a lead blocker much more often than in years past - especially when the running game was humming in the first half of the season - and his blocking certainly improved. But that is not exactly why he is being paid nearly as much as any tight end in the game. The Redskins simply have to find a way to open things up for him in the red zone.

Rookie Fred Davis was supposed to be the man to help make that happen. For Coach Jim Zorn's system to perform at an optimal level, it requires two vertical tight ends who can get downfield and make things happen in the passing game. That never materialized, with Davis often a healthy scratch and taking all season to begin getting a proper feel for the playbook. At times he did not know whether to pass protect or get out into a route.

Davis also needed to learn how to watch film and how to study his playbook; his focus, maturity and concentration were a concern for coaches. His overall attitude is good, though, and he worked hard after many practices on rudimentary parts of the game with departing tight ends coach Rennie Simmons. Davis showed improvement toward the end of the season, especially with his level of concentration and participation during meetings. Several defensive players have said that they think this kid has the physical gifts to be the best playmaker on the team - a faster, more vertical Cooley - but, again, we have to see how quickly he can put it together.

Todd Yoder is fine as a veteran back-up tight end. He has a very strong relationship with Cooley, is well-liked, knows the system and is willing to do whatever is asked of him. He has good enough hands to make plays in the passing game and had to do a lot of blocking this season. At some point the Redskins may want to get a little younger here, but with so many other voids to fill, and good depth at this position, I wouldn't foresee much activity in that regard.

We're lumping fullbacks in here, too. And Mike Sellers, the only fullback on the roster, heads to the Pro Bowl for the first time. Sellers is at his best as a straight-ahead lead blocker and as much as the rest of his skills might tempt coaches, they know that this is where he is most valuable to the team. So that's where he spent the bulk of his time.

It did take too long to get him more involved in the red-zone passing game in particular, but taking the handoff and running behind center is not his forte. His spatial awareness, timing, leap-ability, and ability to hold onto the football have all been problematic at times in the past. When you need a tough yard, put Ladell Betts behind Sellers, go with all the beef you can muster, and try to get it that way. Let Sellers lead the way without the ball in his hands. An occasional fullback dive, especially one in a quick-paced, no-huddle-type situation? Sure. Huge carries around the goal line? Not so much.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 8, 2009; 8:46 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Redskins Lay Off at Least 20

Comments

That was a lot better then your terrible WR's post from yesterday.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

This is also the FIRST post where JLa didn't say something terribly stupid...

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious to see who is going to be brought in to replace Simmons??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

"I'm glad Matthew Stafford and Knowshon Moreno are entering the draft. That makes our odds of picking quality offensive linemen with our paltry picks that much the better.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya "

Knowshon Rockwell Moreno is projected to go after we pick, around 17-20, but it doesn't hurt to have a top-10 caliber player there for someone ahead of us.

Personally, I'd like to see Detroit take Staff and Knowshon. If those two can lead UGA to zero division/conference/national championships, just think of what they'll do together in the NFL!

Posted by: TheTruth11

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I think having Davis and Cooley being able to attack down the field would be great, but you have to get better on the O-Line first.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Any "Insider" thoughts on Sleepy's plan to "commute" from Cali to DC for offseason stuff? (trying to contain my chuckles)...

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

It will be interesting I'm not to familiar with the TE coaches around the league, I would bring in DOC Walker. LOL

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I am just so frustrated by the feeling that the skills of many of the offensive personnel weren't used to their fullest last year. I look at the Ravens or Doliphins for example and see an offensive coordinators putting in plays to highlight certain strengths of their players. Zorn has a LONG ways to go in this regard.

Posted by: TWISI | January 8, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Flound, agreed, it all start up front, keeping JC upright is PARAMOUNT, to this offense being able to take the necessary steps this next year.

Along with those 2 from UGA, Darrius Heyward-Bey and the DE, Everette Brown, also declared. The more high end guys that declare, the better.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

"I am just so frustrated by the feeling that the skills of many of the offensive personnel weren't used to their fullest last year. I look at the Ravens or Doliphins for example and see an offensive coordinators putting in plays to highlight certain strengths of their players. Zorn has a LONG ways to go in this regard.

Posted by: TWISI"

whoa, whoa, whoa

what about that awesome end-around to Fred Davis that resulted in a 1 or 2-yard loss? That was brilliant.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

be interesting to watch the 2 ol guys from OK tonight, Robinson, and Loadholt.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

whoa, whoa, whoa

what about that awesome end-around to Fred Davis that resulted in a 1 or 2-yard loss? That was brilliant.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

HA! I was thinking the exact same thing!

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

My favorite play from last year was the third and lond TE screen to Cooley. I could watch that play run all day.

Posted by: TWISI | January 8, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I remember the end-around play in the Browns game.

I glanced away from the TV for a moment right before the play began, and when I looked back I saw this huge slow guy rumbling toward the sideline. I didn't know what happened at first, and I thought that the snap got fumbled and some lineman picked it up and was trying to salvage yardage...

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

cindy, welcome back! when is jasno returning back to work? cuz these skins by positions series posts aren't exactly work.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

twisi, judging by the number of times it was run, so could Zorn, and Sherm Smith.....serenity now!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I want FOUR upgrades between the O and D lines next year.

(See - Loadholt, Unger, FA DT, 3rd round DT).

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

so who you rootin for tonite and who you picking to win?

i usually root for stoops (since he was an assistant to my fav. ball coach) but i'm rootin for florida cuz of tim tebow! dude's awesome. i hope he has a career in the nfl...as a qb.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

What? No bashing of our TEs and Fullbacks? Shocking....I'm picking myself up off the floor....

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 8, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

I like Florida to win.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

BTW - The answer to our WR problems has been revealed.

Darrius Heyward-Bey entering the draft out of UMaryland.

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I'm hoping Loadholt unlike Boone looks like a future LT. From what I've been reading many scouts thinks he'll play RT in the pros.

Posted by: TWISI | January 8, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I hate Florida, but I expect them to win.

Posted by: _D7_ | January 8, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I think he meant to say that "taking the handoff and running behind center is NOT his forte". But hey, since there is no obviously incorrect information, gross exaggeration/speculation/hyperbole, or agenda-driven pot shots (I can't believe he forgot to mention that this team should not have drafted a tight end), I suppose I shouldn't complain.

Posted by: PatM1 | January 8, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

is anyone else thinking that there might a be a slim possibility of a trade of chris cooley? i mean he holds some of the most value on this team and would definately bring picks. not sure if any teams are willing to trade for him but with the way cerrato was talking about wanting more picks it wouldnt completely surprise me if something crazy like this happened. just a thought.

Posted by: MondoTE11 | January 8, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"I hate Florida, but I expect them to win.

Posted by: _D7_ "


same for me

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Florida.


To hell with Florida!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

mondo,

I can see were your coming from but the cap hit would be bad for the Skins, not sure that would work.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Since Springs, Washington, Taylor, and Griffin are all under contract until 2010, they can technically be traded, right?

I don't have high hopes for any value, but you don't think theres a team out there that may trade a 5th or 6th for one of these guys?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

twisi, agreed on Boone, he got exposed a little bit, the other night, seemed to be lacking some hip bend, and some quickness, that being said, looks like he could transition to a RT pretty quick.

In my dream world, the Skins trade back and end up with both Robinson, and Loadhold...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

ri dictionary:

is well-liked: gives jasno the time of day or looks at him or has verbal communication without NFL mandate.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Since Springs, Washington, Taylor, and Griffin are all under contract until 2010, they can technically be traded, right?

I don't have high hopes for any value, but you don't think theres a team out there that may trade a 5th or 6th for one of these guys?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 9:50 AM |

Nope

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

i like florida the best out of other big florida schools.

i'm rooting for florida and i'm expecting to see some tim teabow magic in their win.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Florida.
To hell with Florida!

the truth"

GO FLORIDA!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

In my dream world, the Skins trade back and end up with both Robinson, and Loadhold...


Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 9:50 AM

I can live with that.

Posted by: TWISI | January 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Greg most mocks have Robinson going in the early 20's.

The have Loadholt going in the mid 2nd.

If we could move back and get a second we could have a shot at both.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - No to trade-able, or no to having any value? I can't really argue the latter point... other than some team has a desperate need for a corner/safety and was interested in Springs - Dallas?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

We need to find someone who can (or can help Buges) dig a mean streak out of Heyer. Jansen is just too big a liability in the passing game to be anything more than an overpaid backup. Speaking of which, I know we'd still take a hit by releasing JJ at this point, but isn't it a significantly smaller hit than the previous offseason?

Heyer is serviceable as a pass blocker, but just not a good run blocker. I recall several times early in the season when he was in- CP would get stuffed for no gain or a loss and I'd see Heyer just standing there in the backfield after not picking up his/any defender. Nor is he very good on screens- he seems to have a hard time initiating contact on or off the line.

Posted by: _D7_ | January 8, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

If we stay with the current picks this mock has us taking to good linemen.

Washington Redskins: Eben Britton, OT, Arizona
The Redskins have major problems at right tackle. Jon Jansen, who turns 33 in January, is playing on his last legs. Eben Britton would fit in well on the right side, and could potentially slide over to the blind side once Samuels' time is up.

Washington Redskins: Anthony Parker, G, Tennessee
Washington's offensive line needs some young blood. Pete "I Think I'm a Running Back" Kendall and Randy Thomas will be 35 and 33, respectively, by the start of the 2009 NFL season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Beantown - I would love that - I think with our pick we should be able to get 2 2nds.... Or maybe have to give up our 6th as well... but to get 2 out of 3 of Robinson, Loadholt, Unger, would be great...

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

What? No bashing of our TEs and Fullbacks? Shocking....I'm picking myself up off the floor....

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 8, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Its the one area of the roster that is proven to be productive, young, and has depth. You could still say its ridiculous they spent a second round pick here last year, but water under the bridge. While yesterday's post was bad cause of all the factual errors, it was spot on that Thomas and Kelly and Thrash and ARE were terrible and that they need to upgrade production.

Also, the review of the defense was accurate as well, secondary good, linebackers outside of Fletcher a sub par group, and the Dline piss poor. If you can't handle the truth (not the crazy poster but the facts of the roster) don't read the posts. But don't expect every position to be a rosy review cause this team has serious issues at almost every position and that can't be ignored.

On the positive we have a personnel guru that will be able to revamp and infuse quality youth at the core with the 10 picks in this draft.......oh wait

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - No to trade-able, or no to having any value? I can't really argue the latter point... other than some team has a desperate need for a corner/safety and was interested in Springs - Dallas?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 9:59 AM |

I was saying no to tradeable, I think most teams would think if we are looking to trade them that we will probably cut them, so they will just wait for that to happen and then pick them up.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I was saying no to tradeable, I think most teams would think if we are looking to trade them that we will probably cut them, so they will just wait for that to happen and then pick them up.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, every GM knows the reality of our roster just as much or more than we do, they realize that we need to get younger and trim salaries so they know that most of our high priced vets will be most likely cut, and we're the rare trader of valuable draft picks for old past their prime injury prone veterans.

And to the could Cooley be traded poster, Cooley is our only proven short yardage chain moving threat, why would we trade him? and his contract would mean the cap hit from trading him would prevent us from signing anybody else.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

The difference is a guy like Springs (and possibly Taylor) could generate interest from multiple teams. Those are the guys that would still have slight value, as some teams wouldn't want them to hit the open market and let a rival sign them. I could see both going for late picks, if we offered them up.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Anyone think the Mangini signing is gonna work for Cleveland.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

"Several defensive players have said that they think this kid has the physical gifts to be the best playmaker on the team - a faster, more vertical Cooley - but, again, we have to see how quickly he can put it together."

Wow! That's promising!

Posted by: heyjoe728 | January 8, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

And contrary to popular opinion, the team only needs to trim salaries if they are to go after a big-name free agent. Otherwise, the team could wait another year, and cut them all after the 2009 season with the same impact. I think it would be dumb to cut a talented player just for the sake of cutting salary without a plan to use the extra cap space.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

same for me

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Florida.

To hell with Florida!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

True that Florida has alot of hurricanes and high priced housing, but I think overall it's a pleasant state with nice beaches and favorable weather.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 8, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

psp,

I have to disagree there was not much interest in taylor last year when we traded for him, and his spectacular 3.5 sacks did not help. No team would trade for him.

Springs is showing age and he has become injury prone, I don't see any team trading for him either.

Remeber when you trade for one of them you have to take on there salary.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

The difference is a guy like Springs (and possibly Taylor) could generate interest from multiple teams. Those are the guys that would still have slight value, as some teams wouldn't want them to hit the open market and let a rival sign them. I could see both going for late picks, if we offered them up.

Posted by: psps23

Yeah, thats what Im hoping... maybe somebody would want Springs before another team picks him up and might offer us a 5/6... could be some lineman or maybe a speed back....

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

And contrary to popular opinion, the team only needs to trim salaries if they are to go after a big-name free agent. Otherwise, the team could wait another year, and cut them all after the 2009 season with the same impact. I think it would be dumb to cut a talented player just for the sake of cutting salary without a plan to use the extra cap space.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:20 AM |

Out of those you mentioned who is talented and can stay on the field?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

The difference is a guy like Springs (and possibly Taylor) could generate interest from multiple teams. Those are the guys that would still have slight value, as some teams wouldn't want them to hit the open market and let a rival sign them. I could see both going for late picks, if we offered them up.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

For us its not a question of valuable or tradeable, its a factor of cap implications. Taylor could maybe be traded as his $8.5 mil doesn't count against us because we acquired him in a trade, all the other guys your talking about would all be untradeable cause their entire contract comes due as a cap hit the year you trade him, and thanks to the ridiculous contracts we've given out that would mean we couldn't do anything else. So its not worth taking the cap hit for a late round pick when you could cut the guy and save some money that you can spend elsewhere.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

anyone who thinks teams are going to trade for washed up or overpaid redskins players is kidding themselves. the only team who trades for old or overvalued players is the redskins themselves. no team is going to want what we selling, promised.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 8, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2 - isn't only their release fees counted as a cap hit? We would only take a hit of 2 mil for Springs for trading/cutting him, not 8 mil. But flounder is right about another team probably not picking up their contract.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

And contrary to popular opinion, the team only needs to trim salaries if they are to go after a big-name free agent. Otherwise, the team could wait another year, and cut them all after the 2009 season with the same impact. I think it would be dumb to cut a talented player just for the sake of cutting salary without a plan to use the extra cap space.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:20 AM |

There are few "talented" players that can stay on the field on this team that we are talking about here. Most everyone I've heard mentioned as cutable are:

Washington
Springs
Taylor
Griffen
Jansen
Thomas

Of those, nobody would trade for Washington, unlikely but maybe for Taylor heck if we could get a 7th for him I'd do it, Griffen is just too old and too run down at this point, Jansen no way, Thomas highly unlikely, Springs is still a good corner but is rarely healthy. All of this ignores that they cap hits would be ridiculous if traded and makes impossible except on Taylor, and if you did it on any of the others, that's all you do in this offseason.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"I'll be trading with myself"

sung to the tune of Billy Idols' "Dancing with Myself"

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

zjfr - the cap hit for cutting a guy and trading a guy is exactly the same. If Springs can be cut, he can be traded with the same hit to our cap.

flounder - all of the guys are talented. Springs, Washington, Taylor, and Griffin can all play at a high level when healthy. Their problem is staying healthy. Unless you have a legit replacement in mind, or a big-time free agent to use their cap space, these guys should not be cut (well, maybe Taylor could go). Having Washington for 10 games is better than having nobody for 16 games. Cutting these guys does not improve the team, unless someone else is brought in.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

We should just try to get by one more year, get the youth that we do have some experience (no putting James F'N Thrash out in the last game of the year with NOTHING to gain with a loss. That's just stupid.)

And hold onto what draft picks we have. Do NOT sign any big name free agents because we aren't a year or two away. I don't care how much of a lock the player is. Save the cap space and wait until the end of next year and we're gonna have to start rebuilding cause Moss and Portis getting old, our OL IS old, etc.

Just wait one more year. I don't care what moves we make this offseason, we aren't gonna do anything in the playoffs.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

zj, for the record, I think that cutting Thomas and Jansen isn't going to happen due to their contracts, and the cap charges that would go along with them being cut.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

The only guy u can get anything for would be a late pick for Taylor and Springs.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

From Commish.com

What happens if a player is traded or retires?

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus. The team that waived or traded the player is responsible for the accelerated signing bonus (in the same manner as described above).

In most cases, if a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Thus, the team will take an immediate salary cap hit of the remaining signing bonus.

I don't really understand what that means, but I'm pretty sure I understand that everyone knows that we are most likely going to cut these guys, and the same reasons we don't want to pay them are the same reasons no team is going to trade for their huge contracts.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

flounder - all of the guys are talented. Springs, Washington, Taylor, and Griffin can all play at a high level when healthy. Their problem is staying healthy. Unless you have a legit replacement in mind, or a big-time free agent to use their cap space, these guys should not be cut (well, maybe Taylor could go). Having Washington for 10 games is better than having nobody for 16 games. Cutting these guys does not improve the team, unless someone else is brought in.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:33 AM |

Thats my point it's time to bring younger guys in and let them play, get younger FA's and go from there this team is'nt doing anything next year anyway, let these young guys get experience and maybe in 2-3 years this team is better.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

zj, for the record, I think that cutting Thomas and Jansen isn't going to happen due to their contracts, and the cap charges that would go along with them being cut.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

That's been my whole point, you have to look at what moves do to the cap and Jansen and Thomas would kill our cap, ergo, they won't be traded or cut, and the few that we can cut and save money on, nobody would trade for the same bad contracts we're trying to unload.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

If you can make it work, keep the aging vets as backups.... Get young and let them split time and learn... we have to prepare for a less than .500 season to get young on the o line... it just seems the FO is not prepared to go through that

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

See Baltimores O line (i know I know, shoot me)

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Here's a hint for you guys bashing LaCanfora: either write your own articles, or just stop reading. If you can't find something productive to say about the team, players, coaches, etc....don't write anything. This isn't about the guy writing the thing, it's about who he's writing about. Some people just need things to complain about.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

This was from JLC,

With routine housekeeping, the Skins will be able to get under the cap.


Starting with the aging free agent class of 2004 alone, the Skins could
create $14.7 million in space by parting with Shawn Springs ($6 million in
2009 cap savings), Marcus Washington ($4.5 million in cap savings) and
Cornelius Griffin ($4.2 million in savings).


(Note on the corners: Springs's relationship with ownership/management has
been strained, but he could end up back here because of his ability to play
safety, especially if these defensive coaches are retained. His health
issues are a big concern, but I don't believe it's an automatic slam dunk
that he's cut. It's also by no means certain that DeAngelo Hall is going to
re-sign here. In fact, I'm hearing that press-man coverage, coupled with no
pass rush and just a single high safety, isn't exactly a siren song to him.
Of course, if the Skins show him the money those concerns could fade fast.
Carlos Rogers could make a push for a new contract, with the potential to be
stuck as a restricted, and not unrestricted, free agent after 2009 because
of the issues with the collective bargaining agreement. But the Skins don't
have to do anything with him, either.)


Back to the numbers...


Defensive end Jason Taylor, a bust this season and someone who was
contemplating retirement last offseason, should be jettisoned, too. That
would save $8.5 million in space. If he wants to return for a veteran
minimum-type deal, that would be great, but the team shouldn't commit $8.5
million or that kind of cash to a 35-year old who has been breaking down and
not threatening any passers.


So we're up to a possible $23 million in cap savings, assuming they do all
of the above. For a team that should be focusing on young players and draft
picks (with the few selections they have left), that's more than ample room
to make some moves.


Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Thats my point it's time to bring younger guys in and let them play, get younger FA's and go from there this team is'nt doing anything next year anyway, let these young guys get experience and maybe in 2-3 years this team is better.

Posted by: Flounder21


But who? We only have 4 draft picks. There isn't going to be an infusion of young talent. And any free agents we sign will be either entering or leaving their prime. Either you sign a big one for big-time dollars (in which case cap space would be needed), or you sign some smaller FAs for much lower money (in which case cap space wouldn't be needed). Either way, those guys should only be cut if necessary.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I agree with whoever said that we won't be able to get any trade value for any of the players thay may need to be cut due to their salaries or ineffectiveness, because other GM's know they will probably be cut.....
Having said that, I think exploring the possibility of a Cooley trade could end up beneficial. As long as it isn't for JUST draft picks (Vinny would foul that up). It would need to be for a player plus a pick or two, which at this point a Cooley trade could probably bring in. If we get a stud o-lineman through a trade (oline typically isn't a risky pickup due to different schemes, like DL, LB, etc), and add in extra draft pick(s), it could be a huge bonus. Most of us up here agree that the passing game will imporove along with Oline improvement, and that that is our primary need, not adding receivers. We are hopefully set at TE with Davis and Yoder, and Cooley didn't exactly explode this year. Yes he is reliable, but irreplaceable? No. With the extra draft pick you can get another OL, or move up for a stud on DL or LB (someone mentioned that LB from USC who is a freakin beast; If we traded up to get that guy I would not be mad about it). At this point Cooley is probably the only player on the roster with real trade value, and that we do have decent depth behind. It might actually help that he is in the pro-bowl and didn't actually deserve to be (IMO).....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

dl, i think his salary makes him untradeable, and he is the one player who works his butt off and fights and plays hard... not a good sign to get rid of a guy like that but keep underacheivers.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Here's a hint for you guys bashing LaCanfora: either write your own articles, or just stop reading. If you can't find something productive to say about the team, players, coaches, etc....don't write anything. This isn't about the guy writing the thing, it's about who he's writing about. Some people just need things to complain about.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 10:47 AM

So when he is factualy wrong like saying a guy is big when he is not, or like saying we should have used one of the second round picks on Merling, when he was gone before we picked in the second round.

If the guy does not want to be bashed then do a litlle research before you post and article, I could care less if he likes the Skins. But because of his relationship with the team he gets no inside information.

And why are you riding his jock do you think he gives a sh!t about you?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Side note: Thoughts are with the Freakzillas with all the flooding in the Pac NW.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | January 8, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

psp,

Cap room can be your friend, you don't always have to be right at the cap limit.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me the actual cap hit we'd take by cutting Jansen?

Posted by: _D7_ | January 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Twisi wrote: I am just so frustrated by the feeling that the skills of many of the offensive personnel weren't used to their fullest last year. I look at the Ravens or Doliphins for example and see an offensive coordinators putting in plays to highlight certain strengths of their players."

I hear you, but I'd argue that the Ravens actually eliminated a bunch of plays from their traditional offense in order to accommodate a rookie QB. They did let him throw at the sidelines (his particular strength), but the Ravens' offense looked to me like it quite a bit simpler than last year.

The Dolphins were desperate. That's where the Wildcat came from. Worked great for a while, but Baltimore showed it up.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully they do focus on young players. I just would cringe seeing them throw good money at some of the big name guys out there....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

dl, i think his salary makes him untradeable, and he is the one player who works his butt off and fights and plays hard... not a good sign to get rid of a guy like that but keep underacheivers.
Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 10:53 AM

Both good points, but when has that ever stopped the FO before? Anyway, I was just kind of speculating to myself out loud. I'm not gonna go around pushing this idea...

Also, from yesterday, everyone knows Mike Vick is gonna end up with a star on his helmet.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

dl I was up with you until you said we should trade Cooley.

So I was never really up with you at all.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me the actual cap hit we'd take by cutting Jansen?

Posted by: _D7_ | January 8, 2009 10:57 AM |

Jon Jansen
Counts $3.4 million on the roster
Counts $6.2 million if cut or traded

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Along with those thoughts, these are people i consider core, and should be with our team for as long as possible based upon performance and what they mean to the team. They should not go at any cost (wink)

Cooley
Cartwright
Khary Campbell
Fletcher
Alexander
Landry

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I got this from a redskins fan site.

The Redskins are over the cap as of right now, and will work to get under it. To that end, they will make cuts, trades, restructure offers and extension offers. But one thing they'll hesitate to do is cut or trade anyone whose R Fee is higher than their 2009 cap number. This does not rule out the possibility by any means - JLC has mentioned on Redskins Insider the possibility of Carlos Rogers being traded. The Redskins could move forward with such a transaction, but Rogers makes the list below because trading him would cause the 'Skins to carry $3.9 million on their books instead of the current $2.4 million.

Because of these financial considerations, it makes the Redskins more likely to carry these guys in 2009:

Chris Cooley
Counts $3.0 million on the roster
Counts $11.1 million if cut or traded

Clinton Portis
Counts $5.6 million on the roster
Counts $13.3 million if cut or traded

Randy Thomas
Counts $4.9 million on the roster
Counts $9.5 million if cut or traded

Jon Jansen
Counts $3.4 million on the roster
Counts $6.2 million if cut or traded

LaRon Landry
Counts $5.4 million on the roster
Counts $7.6 million if cut or traded

London Fletcher
Counts $4.3 million on the roster
Counts $6.3 million if cut or traded

Carlos Rogers
Counts $2.4 million on the roster
Counts $3.9 million if cut or traded

Ladell Betts
Counts $2.0 million on the roster
Counts $2.8 million if cut or traded

Antwaan Randle El
Counts $6.1 million on the roster
Counts $6.7 million if cut or traded

Santana Moss
Counts $6.7 million on the roster
Counts $7.2 million if cut or traded

Andre Carter
Counts $6.6 million on the roster
Counts $6.8 million if cut or traded

Chris Samuels
Counts $9.3 million on the roster
Counts $9.4 million if cut or traded

Most of these players are guys we absolutely want to see in Burgundy & Gold in 2009, so this initial post is much to do about nothing. But Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas are two declining players who the Redskins are likely stuck with in 2009.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"Cap room can be your friend, you don't always have to be right at the cap limit.

Posted by: Flounder21"

Cap room is only a friend if you plan to use it. Otherwise all it does is lessen the load on Danny's pockets.

And the point is that the exact same future cap space can be gotten by cutting these guys after the 2009 season as during this offseason. So cutting them now holds no net future value, unless someone is brought in THIS year to replace them.

If nobody is brought in this year, keep them and then cut them in offseason 2010. If somebody is brought in and space is needed, then by all means, let those guys go.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Us trading Cooley would make as much sense as the Vikings trading AP.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, Evans as well

Anybody else, if they left, i wouldnt be too sad

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Ouch! 11.1 mil if cut or traded.....guess that won't be happening.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

If you trade Cooley you take an 11.1 mil cap hit, that would be very stupid.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Actually, to add to my post, another way cap space could be used is to allow us to release some of the "unreleasable" veterans. So if Taylor goes and provides $8.5 million in cap space, then I wouldn't mind using part of that space to throw Jansen out.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

al, what if the vikes could trade AP for a combination of Leigh Torrence, AND Marcus Mason...what then?? Would they still be stupid....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

So who now wants to say Andre Carter will be here next year? Thanks Flound, it is still a lot to get rid of him, but out of all these peeps, his base is closest to his hit...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

+++This is also the FIRST post where JLa didn't say something terribly stupid...

Posted by: p1funk | January 8, 2009 9:10 AM

That's what the comments section is for.++++

Incidentally, JLC's comment: "It did take too long to get (Sellers) more involved in the red-zone passing game in particular, but taking the handoff and running behind center is his forte," ranks as a wrong-headed comment.

His forte is blocking. His pass catching out of the backfield is arguably his second most important skill. Short runs, he's okay, but it's hardly a forte. Incidentally, JLC suggested Bettes behind him in short yardage situation. Portis makes much more sense sicne he actually breaks tackles.

There. Criticism of JLC from Moi. Suck on it Beantown.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Yes Greg, yes it would be.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

If they still can not run proper routes that is all coaching, they were'nt rated the best WR's in the draft because they could'nt play.

Posted by: Flounder21


Now you are going to extremes to defend your position. So, Moss, ARE, Thrash have the same coaches as the rookies. The offensive scheme was not installed until this season. They had about the same amount of time to learn it as the rookies. Yet, it is all the coachs' fault that the rookies could not learn it? You are standing in quicksand as I see it.

Posted by: driley | January 8, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Carter will be here.

Posted by: JoeDonLooney | January 8, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Really, sadly, they guy who may make sense to trade and could give us a 1st and possibly a 2nd would be laron... we cant use him as we want to, and technically Horton plays well to the line as Landry would... so if you are talking value, and shrewd moves by the FO, that may be one...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Cork, that is obvisouly loseable type cutting out NOT... even jasno isnt that bad...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

corky, you fetch me that paper yet??

And I think Carter will be here...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

+++Here's a hint for you guys bashing LaCanfora: either write your own articles, or just stop reading. If you can't find something productive to say about the team, players, coaches, etc....don't write anything. This isn't about the guy writing the thing, it's about who he's writing about. Some people just need things to complain about.

Posted by: ywill316 +++


A shrink could have a field day with some of these bozos.

I think part of the harping is shadenfreude, part of it is Conservative anti-media Bias, part of it is from Redskin employees afraid criticism will cost them their jobs, part of it is the uncivil Snark culture of the internet, part of it is because JLC knows how to stir the pot and encourage hits, and alas, part of it is because he has his biases and sometimes gets things wrong.

But it's mostly because a percentage of posters sit in their Mom's basements hating their own lives and lashing out.

Hell we all lash out. That's what's so fun.

And remember, kids. It's ONLY fubbal.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Now you are going to extremes to defend your position. So, Moss, ARE, Thrash have the same coaches as the rookies. The offensive scheme was not installed until this season. They had about the same amount of time to learn it as the rookies. Yet, it is all the coachs' fault that the rookies could not learn it? You are standing in quicksand as I see it.

Posted by: driley | January 8, 2009 11:12 AM |

Lets see they have been in the league a long time, easier for veterans to learn a new system then rookies.

I did'nt say it was all there fault I said they need to take some of the blame, Hell I could teach one of them how to run a go route.

Lets see you stand here and run as fast as you can toward the endzone and at worse you will take a defender with you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Here is the list of the ONLY players (of note) who have a chance of being cut/traded this offesason (anyone else we are NOT parting with, for reasons of either cap hit or strategy).


Taylor
Springs
Marcus
Griff
Rabach
Daniels
Carlos
Ladell
Thrash
Yoder

I don't remember the specifics about Jansen, but if the post June 1 cut rule still exists, it would only save us a couple hundred thousand, and I can't see us parting with Jon due to lack of depth.


Posted by: Rypien11 | January 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Zeebs - players are like new cars. As soon as you drive them off the lot (or take them in the draft), they immediately drop in value. Landry is nothing more than a quality starting safety to other teams in this league. And a quality starting safety doesn't even come close to garnering a 1st round pick, let alone a 1st and a 2nd.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

++++corky, you fetch me that paper yet??

Posted by: BeantownGreg++++

Sorry. My bad. Thought you were litter-box trained.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I wish we could trade Ladell for like a 2nd or 3rd and commit to picking the best RB available with the pick we get in return.


But again, the only team that would give a 2nd or 3rd for Ladell would be the Redskins.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Now you are going to extremes to defend your position. So, Moss, ARE, Thrash have the same coaches as the rookies. The offensive scheme was not installed until this season. They had about the same amount of time to learn it as the rookies. Yet, it is all the coachs' fault that the rookies could not learn it? You are standing in quicksand as I see it.

Posted by: driley | January 8, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

So these guys were stars at USC, Michigan St., and Oklahoma, and yet are too stupid to read a playbook and run a 6 yard button hook? I ain't buying it. I think JZ is stubborn and decided he didn't like the way they showed up in camp and never gave them a real shot. That said, they didn't do anything with their limited opportunities to force him to give them more. Talent forces a coach to play it, that's why TO still has a job. They did nothing in the preseason and nothing in their limited chances to force JZ to change his mind on them. And he showed with his flat out refusal to adjust his play calling, to ever let the defense on the field first instead of his three and out offense when he won a coin flip, and his refusal to let any of the young guys play against San Fran that once he makes his mind up it is tough to change it. Hopefully for everyone involved they have a good camp/preseason and force themselves on the field.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

But it's mostly because a percentage of posters sit in their Mom's basements hating their own lives and lashing out.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:17 AM |
==============

I have to admit, no one projects better than Corksucker.

But his posts still suck like an Electrolux.

I bet he's a mid 40-something human zero who still has roommates.

Go play with your man breasts, you lame maggot.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Any of you geeks on here know where I can get a tasty reuben at a reasonable price in the Arlington area?

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

+++... I could care less if he likes the Skins. But because of his relationship with the team he gets no inside information.

And why are you riding his jock do you think he gives a sh!t about you?

Posted by: Flounder21++++

I ain't no shrink. But this remarkable comment suggest Shadenfreude, daddy issues, a Redskin employee afraid to lose his job, and a snarky Internet guy who criticize someone for inaccuracy and then just makes stuff up himself.

Come on Journo boy. what are YOUR sources that prove: "because of his relationship with the team he gets no inside information" as you claim. TWO sources, please, and supporting documents.

You and people like you who write comments like these couldn't hold a job on a free grocery store handout, much less a newspaper.

And I dont' give a rats rump whether or not JLC likes me, hates me or (most likely) doesn't know I exist. What galls me as a person whose been a journalist all his working life, who knows petty tyrants want to control or destroy a free press, and who numbers many journalists as friends, is the stupidity and venality of the attacks by people unqualified to do the job themselves.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

"Riding his jock?" That's great. Why would he care about me? What do I have to do with anything? What do YOU have to do with anything? I'm just saying, if you want to correct someone, fine. But do it in a mature manner. Don't act like you're 12....maybe you are 12. I don't know. It's just irritating to read the "JLC an idiot, blah, blah, blah" crap.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21-
dude- Corky is a woman.
Early to mid 40's, loves to play softball and is about 40 lbs on the heavy side.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

driley,

If Zorn thinks that any receiver is going to run perfect routes he is crazy, you really think Royal and Jackson were out there running perfect routes.

I also seem to remeber them saying that ARE and Trash ran wrong routes sometimes.

How else do you explain the number of times both of them caught balls 3-4 yards short of the first down marker on third down.

There are no Steve Largents on this team when it comes to rout running.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Here's today's list:

1. Carter will return

2 JLC is still a fat, worthless bag of pus, but I thank WaPo for this forum - it will be here long after JLC has moved on to his proper destination, Family Circle (Jerk).

3. Enjoy retirement, Rennie. You did your best.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

+++Cork, that is obvisouly loseable type cutting out NOT... even jasno isnt that bad...

Posted by: Zeebs+++

Ugh. I gots to get the sleepywinkers out my eyes before I start reading.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

What galls me as a person whose been a journalist all his working life, who knows petty tyrants want to control or destroy a free press, and who numbers many journalists as friends, is the stupidity and venality of the attacks by people unqualified to do the job themselves.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:28 AM |
-------------------
LOL.. Check out the lexicon on Corksucker.

Sure, you're a journalist.

You're a self-loathing wannabe who in between breaks of beating off studies a Thesaurus, and somehow thinks the use of a polysyllable word will make your case for you.

A writer?

Ha

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

The Circle Jerks had their moments but I always liked Black Flag, X and the Dickies more.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Come on Journo boy. what are YOUR sources that prove: "because of his relationship with the team he gets no inside information" as you claim. TWO sources, please, and supporting documents.

You and people like you who write comments like these couldn't hold a job on a free grocery store handout, much less a newspaper.

And I dont' give a rats rump whether or not JLC likes me, hates me or (most likely) doesn't know I exist. What galls me as a person whose been a journalist all his working life, who knows petty tyrants want to control or destroy a free press, and who numbers many journalists as friends, is the stupidity and venality of the attacks by people unqualified to do the job themselves.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 11:28 AM |

Cork you are a complete a$$, I don't need sources to know he has never broken a major story about the Skins.

I don't need to be qualified to do his job he needs to be qualified, and with his lack of research ability I would say he is not qualified to cover this team.

Why would I want to work for a newspaper, what a sucky job that would be, sounds like you are the one dreaming of working for a newspaper with those columns you write. Don't be mad at me because you have not gotten your dream job, but maybe if you keep kissing JLC's a$$ he will let you do research for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I love to play softball.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Cork you are a complete a$$, I don't need sources to know he has never broken a major story about the Skins.

I don't need to be qualified to do his job he needs to be qualified, and with his lack of research ability I would say he is not qualified to cover this team.

Why would I want to work for a newspaper, what a sucky job that would be, sounds like you are the one dreaming of working for a newspaper with those columns you write. Don't be mad at me because you have not gotten your dream job, but maybe if you keep kissing JLC's a$$ he will let you do research for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:38 AM

Who said you have to break a "major story" to be a journalist" I think you need to go read TMZ or something...you're on the wrong site.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"I love to play softball....."

me too Beantown- but I'm not puffing on poles in the parking lot between games.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I think the Skins need to add another FB that is a real threat to run the ball. Think of Jacob Hester in SD (3rd rd #69 overall 2008) or Leonard Weaver (undrafted 2005).

Or cut Betts or Rock and draft another RB that is a home run hitter. I do not believe Rock is as valuable anymore. His kickoffs are decent, but his s/t tackles were down and his qb of the punt protection was flawed this year.

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | January 8, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Who said you have to break a "major story" to be a journalist" I think you need to go read TMZ or something...you're on the wrong site.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:41 AM |

It's called Redskin Insider that would lead people to believe you could maybe get some inside news before other people.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Cork, that is obvisouly loseable type cutting out NOT... even jasno isnt that bad...

ummm, he ain't "bad", he's our Jasno... dropping the most important word in a sentence is a common occurrence. Clearly, that's what editors are for. It's part of the Insider charm... as a loyal Hamster, you have to read with a jaundiced eye and a firm willingness to extrapolate meaning from two contradictory sentences.

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Posted by: daggar | January 8, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I think we should look for a FB/RB type after the Draft if we want one.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

was hoping to purchase a new bat before the 2009 ASA rules went into effect...but was not to be....I've got a Worth PST...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Actually, if I had to pick a team that I thought did the best job of making use of its offensive talent, I'd probably go with Indianapolis, New England, and the Jints.

Worst job: probably Detroit, but that's shooting fish in the old barrel.

Indianapolis makes my list because they've completely customized their game around the abilities of the QB. Not sure that's a good strategy in the long run, but as long as he stays healthy, it works. You watch Manning to see what the QB position is capable of -- he's asked to do things other QBs aren't. And for the most part, does them. People say he's overhyped, but that's the NFL for you -- a big hype generator.

New England showed us how they could adjust from an experience QB to a very inexperienced one. Should have made the playoffs, because by season's end, they're better than half the teams still playing.

The Giants I included because of how well they built their team to do two specific things: run the ball and rush the passer. Of course, if the opponent can stop the run or hinder the rush, the Giants struggle. But Eli has become good enough to pull a lot of games out for them anyway.

Detroit has those receivers. Boy, think what Calvin Johnson could do in a Skins uniform. But without a QB or a blocking tackle -- the offense just doesn't work.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 8, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

ywill,

Since I've hardly ever seen you post here, I'm sure they would rather have me posting all the time even if I am bashing JLC.

Anyway why do you care what I say are you the blog police, if you don't like my post skip through them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

beantown- how are your sanding and lacquer skills? Ebay sells some wonderful stickers.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"The Blog Police they get inside of my head"

sung to the tune of cHEAP trick's Dream Police

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Why don't one of you flunkies post JLC's resumé (it's sure to fit easily in this small space).

He's never broken anything because he's not a journalist; he's a hack who writes about sports.

Put another way, as Truman Capote said re Jack Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

CL,

You got that baby any Redskin gear yet?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"Riding his jock?" That's great. Why would he care about me? What do I have to do with anything? What do YOU have to do with anything? I'm just saying, if you want to correct someone, fine. But do it in a mature manner. Don't act like you're 12....maybe you are 12. I don't know. It's just irritating to read the "JLC an idiot, blah, blah, blah" crap.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:29 AM |

Then don't read the "JLC an idiot, blah, blah, blah crap"... then again I could choose not to read "JLC is GOD post(er)s" myself, but it's irritating to read post like yours. You do come off as some type of "Rooster" rider.

Condescending, self-serving, holier than thou...

why are you tryin to "son" posters on the blog, dude?

Baically practice what you F'n preach homes

It's chess not checkers...
-----------------------------
Bean = Walter Matthau

Cork = Jack Lemmon

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Hey I like Jack Kerouac! Did you get a quote book for Xmass mr. skin...?

mofos be cranky today, can't we all just realx and be siced for return of The office and 30 Rock?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

List of Eddie's that ARE tall :

Eddie "Too Tall" Jones

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

rich, are you talking about getting the bat 'doctored', 'shaved' if you will...to me thats cheating. The bats themselves are bomb droppers as is, no need to further enhance them. Someone is gonna end up getting seriously injured...

"You're a self-loathing wannabe who in between breaks of beating off studies a Thesaurus, and somehow thinks the use of a polysyllable word will make your case for you"

Seriously, I think even corky himself had a chuckle at this statement....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Nice to see you don't notice me "Flounder." I'm not the blog police, but, and I can't speak for everyone, I just get tired of sifting through childish rants about the posts on here. It just comes across poorly. But, since I've "hardly ever posted here," I guess I should be quiet.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

mofos be cranky today, can't we all just realx and be siced for return of The office and 30 Rock?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:52 AM |

I am more siced for the retun of Criminal Minds and CSI NY.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

good looking out Chrislarry, I forgot The Office comes back tonight!!


and just a head's up, did you know on Superbowl night, I believe at halftime, they are airing either the episode of The Office that launches their new spinoff or the first episode of the spinoff itself.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Can I be Jack Klugman?

Flounder: Yeah got the skins onsie/socks combo...which the skins are 0 for 3 in while she wears...so gotta burn those..

still waiting in the mail for Capitals onsie which quite honestly i am much more proud/excited for her to wear.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Samson151 I hear you regarding the Ravens and Dolphins. I would've like to see the Skins adjust accordingly as well to their offensive strnghts.

Posted by: TWISI | January 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

can't we all just realx and be siced for return of The office and 30 Rock?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:52 AM

Office is a rerun, but Earl and 30 rock are new.....Can't get into Kath&Kim....Hope you set your Tivo to capture scrubs which is now on ABC....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

thanks Truth, I wasnt aware of the Office SB tie in...

Best two shows ever launched post SB:

The A Team

and

Wonder years

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Hey I like Jack Kerouac! Did you get a quote book for Xmass mr. skin...?

mofos be cranky today, can't we all just realx and be siced for return of The office and 30 Rock?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:52 AM |
---------------

No one is cranky; so stop your bellyaching, you pathetic blog monitor.

(puting down my quote book to get ready for some REAL culture, cl-style, i.e., "30 Rock" & "The Office").

Bliss.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Nice to see you don't notice me "Flounder." I'm not the blog police, but, and I can't speak for everyone, I just get tired of sifting through childish rants about the posts on here. It just comes across poorly. But, since I've "hardly ever posted here," I guess I should be quiet.

Posted by: ywill316 | January 8, 2009 11:54 AM |

Dude you don't have to be quiet say what ever you want, and if you don't like a post skip through it.

This place is fair game with the exception of Politics and a few other things.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Blog Officer DMV

Badge #: 45866790

But I work in the narc department of RI, its where all the action is.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Wonder Years was awesome.

Whinny was smoking!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

He's never broken anything because he's not a journalist; he's a hack who writes about sports.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

---

I guess his assertions last offseason that the Redskins were offering a trade to Cincinnati for Chad Johnson doesn't fall under that category. Even when Marvin Lewis was denying it to the media (and then later retracted his denial, saying that in fact, yes, they were offered a trade from the Redskins). No inside information indeed.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Scrubbs on ABC is not the same as it was on NBC.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Office is a rerun, but Earl and 30 rock are new.....Can't get into Kath&Kim....Hope you set your Tivo to capture scrubs which is now on ABC....

Posted by: dlhaze1

DAM! I thought Office was new....sorry...Earl is a scientology brainwash.....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Lemme go ahead and ruin the season of Scrubs for you :

there will be a patient that doesn't have insurance

Dr. Cox will learn a lesson

JD will drink an Appletini and make a joke about it

Turk will be awesome


that's about it

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Put another way, as Truman Capote said re Jack Kerouac: "That's not writing, that's typing."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Nice quote. Very cutting. If Capote said that about Kerouac what do you suppose he'd have to say about a grown man who turns semicolons into winking smiley faces?
I anxiously await your hackneyed retort.

Posted by: mack1 | January 8, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I guess his assertions last offseason that the Redskins were offering a trade to Cincinnati for Chad Johnson doesn't fall under that category. Even when Marvin Lewis was denying it to the media (and then later retracted his denial, saying that in fact, yes, they were offered a trade from the Redskins). No inside information indeed.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM |
-----------------------

You want to stick by your claim that JLC broke that story?

You sure you want to do that?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

JLC also was the one who said we were making a move for Taylor, Vinny denied it and then it happened if I remember correctly.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Truth, we agree on one thing about Winnie Cooper

Just google Danica McKellar and spy the pics... nice

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"No one is cranky; so stop your bellyaching, you pathetic blog monitor.

(puting down my quote book to get ready for some REAL culture, cl-style, i.e., "30 Rock" & "The Office").

Bliss.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse "

Yup, nothing cranky there....sorry my man let me get back to my post on Kierkagard and Proust....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Flounder: Yeah got the skins onsie/socks combo...which the skins are 0 for 3 in while she wears...so gotta burn those..

still waiting in the mail for Capitals onsie which quite honestly i am much more proud/excited for her to wear.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 11:55 AM |

I don't blame you the Caps are on fire.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Nice quote. Very cutting. If Capote said that about Kerouac what do you suppose he'd have to say about a grown man who turns semicolons into winking smiley faces?
I anxiously await your hackneyed retort.

Posted by: mack1 | January 8, 2009 12:00 PM |
-----------

Capote, being a swish, would probably love it.

However, as I suspected, you're too dense to see the use of the quote as it applies to JLC and are caught up in whether Capote was right or not re Jack.

I happen to think he was wrong, and in fact prefer Kerouac's work. But that's irrelevant.

One more thing: Are you JLC's brother, or is it just your turn to defend the bum this week?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

As far as trading players like Cooley, who you would think has some trade value, but whose contract limits/negates trading: I believe in some trades the player agrees to renegotiate his contract to allow for less of a cap hit. Anyone know the details on how this may work? Of course the player and teams involved have to want the trade enough to renegotiate the contract. Just thought this could open up the possibility of trading guys like Cooley

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 8, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

A bit biased perhaps? Both A-Team and wonder years premiered after Redskin Super Bowl victories! But I do agree.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Yup, nothing cranky there....sorry my man let me get back to my post on Kierkagard and Proust....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:02 PM |
------------------

Come on now. You know I don't intend any of this seriously.

It's just kicks (JK reference).

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | January 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"A bit biased perhaps? Both A-Team and wonder years premiered after Redskin Super Bowl victories! But I do agree.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse "

Sometimes the worlds align DL....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

VA, i said laron. someone said he isnt worth a 1... it ended there/

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

The areas where the Skins offense is really solid are tight end and fullback. Cooley and Sellars are all pro players. Yoder is a very effective blocking TE who can catch too. Davis was coming on by the end of the season.

The only recommendation I would make is keeping a backup FB on the roster who can play special teams. Nemo if he's ready or a young, undrafted FA.

Posted by: siris | January 8, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I got you Mr. Skin...simply responding in kind....

I like the posters who are The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars...(JK reference)

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Although I think Family Guy may have premiered after a Super Bowl....that's right up there too.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

GREGG WILLIAMS EMERGING IN GREEN BAY?
Posted by Mike Florio on January 8, 2009, 12:02 p.m.

Despite reports and rumors linking former 49ers coach Mike Nolan to the vacant defensive coordinator job in Green Bay, Tom Silverstein of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports that former Jaguars, Redskins, and Titans defensive coordinator and former Bills head coach Gregg Williams could get the job.

Though no one has been interviewed in the handful of days since Bob Sanders was fired, Williams could fit head coach Mike McCarthy’s “best available candidate” plan.

Then again, is Williams the best available candidate? His only year in Jacksonville was a very, very bad one, and he received only cursory consideration for the head-coaching job in Washington last year after Joe Gibbs retired.

Also, keep in mind the possibility that Williams could land back in Tennessee with coach Jeff Fisher, if current defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz lands a head-coaching job.

Other possibilities for job, per Silverstein, include Jim Haslett and Romeo Crennel.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

So, where does Pacman Jones end up? And now that he's a free agent, does that diminish the value of Carlos Rogers on the trade market? They both came out in the 2005 draft. Pacman was the sixth pick and Rogers was the ninth.

I see Pacman in Oakland. They need to replace Hall. And I don't think he has any effect on Carlos's trade value, which I think is a lot higher than most of the posters up here have pegged it. But, I don't think he'll get traded.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Yesterday I posted an over/under of 25 days until Pacman is a Raider. I forgot to include the time now where moves are restricted so lets move it to over/under 50 days:

I have you for under and 4th for over

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

alright so my original theory of the possibility that cooley may get traded holds nothing with a serious cap hit that would result. i dont think there is anyone else on this team that has any trade value with the lack of depth. carlos may be the only one but he may only get us a 3rd or 4th with the way he plays. so as for getting picks, unless we trade future picks i can only see us trading back in the draft like last year only this year we'll use those picks to take a punter and a kicker in the 2nd round.

Posted by: MondoTE11 | January 8, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I think there is little chance of trading to anything more than 5 picks, and even that is predicated on a trade out of/down in first round. No players will/can be dealt for picks that make sense/will ever happen.

So they should:

- be scouting deeeep into potential undrafted free agents.

- decide to value these finds on the roster ie last season keeping Crummey on the active roster and cutting Fabini. Instead of letting our practice squad get poached get them on the roster at the exspence of old bench warmers

- target younger, end of first contract free agents on other teams. IE talented guys stuck behind vets with uncuttable contracts. I call this the "Rabach" model b/c thats what we did when we got him.

- Target a sensible FA target like Dansby to spend some coin on.

- Bring in a ton of marginal 1-3 year guys to compete. Guys who have bounced around a bit. Think Anthony Mix (not saying he is great just an example of a player) that will be hungry and push guys. If you find one guy that sticks thats great.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

CL,

I am with you I'll bet crummey is starting Center for Cin. either next year or 2010.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

HECKERT, PIOLI OUT OF RUNNING FOR BROWNS JOB
Posted by Mike Florio on January 8, 2009, 12:15 p.m. EST
To no surprise, the hiring of Eric Mangini by the Browns closes the Cleveland window of opportunity on Pats V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli.

Per multiple media reports, Eagles G.M. Tom Heckert is out of the running, too.

Heckert canceled an interview scheduled for Friday, explaining that he doesn’t know Mangini and would not be entirely comfortable in the job. Per Jay Glazer of FOX, Heckert would have pushed the Browns to hire Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo as the next head coach.

Meanwhile, Adam Schefter of NFLN adds to a growing chorus of reports that set the record straight regarding the notion that Pioli made “extreme demands” of the Browns.

“He never demanded millions of dollars per year, as had been speculated,” Schefter writes. “He never demanded certain powers, as had been previously reported. Pioli never asked the Browns for anything, not a single thing, which flies in the face of multiple reports that he had.”

As we’ve previously surmised, these reports possibly were coming from folks who didn’t want to see Pioli land in Cleveland, and/or folks who don’t want to see him leave New England.

The hiring of Mangini by the Browns, and the presumed arrival of George Kokinis as G.M., likely saves the employment of various colleagues and cronies of former G.M. Phil Savage, who faced potential termination if Pioli had been hired.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Maybe if we just had a back-up center, Mike Sellers wouldn't drop so many balls and we'd be 16-0!

Posted by: LarryBud | January 8, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

But the Vick debate is old news now. He's doing the time, lost a considerable amount of bread, lost his privliage to play in the NFL (for now), again I ask, what do you want from the guy?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 7:20 PM

Quiet meditative time in the joint. Remorse ... accompanied by finding religion (Christianity or Islam would be fine*) and changing his name. Then returning to the NFL as a wide receiver for the Skins on a one year incentive-laden deal with an option to extend for two (and more cash). As a QB, his performance was to pendulum-like (which was good for me when deciding on how to bet re: the Falcons, but would not be good for my home team).

* Bahai or Mennonite would not be acceptable. The NFL is no place for pacifists.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Super Bowl victory or not, I hated the Wonder Years ... seems like the advent of voice over narration in prime time. Hate voice over narration.

The A-Team, on the other hand, gave us the term "jibba jabba". Can never get enough George Peppard.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"I hated the Wonder Years ..."

WHAT...!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

dc,

You did'nt think Winnie was hot?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

There is no way the Skins will trade Carlos Rodgers. He's under contract at a reasonable salary through 2011 and will be the Skins starting CB with Hall next year.

You guys want the Skins to trade him, so they can start a rookie or worse yet Smoot/Tryon at CB?

Posted by: siris | January 8, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

You did'nt think Winnie was hot?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, Flounder.... agreed

Posted by: cej75024 | January 8, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

NWA wrestling at 10 on channel 45 reception was a little fuzzy.

WWF wrestling at 11:00 on channel 20

Bruce Lee double feature at 12:00 on channel 20.

Strated with the song Kung Fu Fighting.

Man Saturdays were fun.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

You did'nt think Winnie was hot?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:08 PM

Now, yes. Then, no. Dough girl.

Also, I was a cinephilic snob at a young age. Hated the voice over narration. [Loved the part in "Home Alone" when Daniel Stern got a hot iron dropped on his forehead ... pay back for the Wonder Years voice over narration.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Silver Spoons: You all know you wanted all that cool sh!t in your house.

Growing Pains: Mike Seaver could pull some a$$.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Remember when the rumor was flying around the Marilyn Manson was the best friend from Wonder years...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"Growing Pains: Mike Seaver could pull some a$$."

Now that's funny

The mom in that show was hot as hell.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

NFL is no place for pacifists.

Posted by: dcsween

--

I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in 'Nam of course.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Ex-Jaguars coordinator Gregg Williams first in line to interview

The Saints will begin their search for a new defensive coordinator with one of the most coveted candidates on the market, Gregg Williams, according to a league source.

http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/01/exjaguars_coordinator_first_in.html

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I got a question was Higgins really Robin Master's?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Flounder have you seen The Wrestler? A must see even for non-wrestling fans....


Daniel Stern gets a lifetime pass in my book for being in Breaking Away.

duly noted: Sween a Wonder Years "Hater"

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"Super Bowl victory or not, I hated the Wonder Years ... seems like the advent of voice over narration in prime time. Hate voice over narration."

Arrested Development is/was awesome.

Posted by: mj4cool | January 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

When wdo you think we will get this post?


"WASHINGTON POST by POSITION: Today BEAT WRITERS"

Posted by: cej75024 | January 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

CL,

No I will have to check that out.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Silver Spoons: You all know you wanted all that cool sh!t in your house."

F a large train set, I wanted Erin Grey in my house!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"Silver Spoons: You all know you wanted all that cool sh!t in your house."

F a large train set, I wanted Erin Grey in my house!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 8, 2009 1:30 PM |

Agreed, but I did like those arcade style video games he had.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

JLC, I read ur post all the time and think you do a pretty good job, but sometimes it seems like ur not a skins fan. I understand ur post is ur opinion, but a least pretend ur on our side sometime and that you have faith in our team.

My opinion skins should only used one pick on a OL and the rest on defense. If you look around the league champions teams are built on good defenses. Second, Zorn should look at Colt in the offseason because JC need to be pressure by this organization to be a big time QB. He's the reason why our offense system not working..

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"He's the reason why our offense system not working..

Posted by: taylormade218"

What makes you say that? What about JC's performances makes you think another QB would do significantly better (I say significantly because this offense is significantly bad)?

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

***JLC, I read ur post all the time and think you do a pretty good job, but sometimes it seems like ur not a skins fan. I understand ur post is ur opinion, but a least pretend ur on our side sometime and that you have faith in our team.


Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse***

Taylor, while i don't agree with JLC all the time...it isn't his job to be a fan. He is paid to give his opinions and have his facts correct. Just like yesterday's WR post. I mean his view of Eddie Royal was right on.....*snicker*

Posted by: cej75024 | January 8, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Silver Spoons: You all know you wanted all that cool sh!t in your house.

If you meant 'Erin Grey', then I'm with you. Although the Buck Rogers outfit was better.

Posted by: daggar | January 8, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

taylor, may i be the first to say 'where have you been'... JLC is a ravens fan and a redsox fan.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Ah, had to guess I wouldn't be the only one pulling Erin out of the box of memories.

Posted by: daggar | January 8, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"Davis also needed to learn how to watch film and how to study his playbook; his focus, maturity and concentration were a concern for coaches." That is a polite way of saying the dud is a retard. What was he doing at USC? Learning how to not focus, be immature and not concentrate?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 8, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Taylor, while i don't agree with JLC all the time...it isn't his job to be a fan. He is paid to give his opinions and have his facts correct. Just like yesterday's WR post. I mean his view of Eddie Royal was right on.....*snicker*

Posted by: cej75024 | January 8, 2009 1:36 PM |

Well according to Corky a journalist is not responsible for checking his facts, and for us to suggest that he should means we are picking on him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

psps23


"...this offense is significantly bad..."

True statement.

Can Zorn fix it in 2-3 years?

That's the better question.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 8, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

What was he doing at USC? Learning how to not focus, be immature and not concentrate?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 8, 2009 1:40 PM |

No he was busy being the best TE in the country.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Can Zorn fix it in 2-3 years?

That's the better question.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 8, 2009 1:42 PM |

If Zorn does'nt fix it this year he will be gone he will not get 2-3 years.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

loved the wonder years. love the voice over narration. be it in bucket list or whatever...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

And, PLEASE SKINS get another running back to back up Portis... Betts is some garbage! He has no cut move..

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I'll take Loni Anderson from her WKRP days......

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 8, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Arrested Development is/was awesome.

Posted by: mj4cool | January 8, 2009 1:29 PM

On this, I cannot disagree. The difference is that Ron Howard wrote and directed Arrested Development so, as a narrator, he was almost an additional character ... or, at least, his lines added comedy distinct and apart from what was happening in the plot.
_________

What was he doing at USC? Learning how to not focus, be immature and not concentrate?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 8, 2009 1:40 PM

He was a sociology major ... sociology, that most unfocused and immature of the social sciences.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

cej75024, why is Eddie Royal good receiver....because of CUTLER!

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Member when people used to just complain about JLC's Hockey love?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

"Can Zorn fix it in 2-3 years?

Posted by: MistaMoe"

He better fix it in 1, or Shanahan and Cowher will be smelling those burgundy and gold dollars.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

cej75024, why is Eddie Royal good receiver....because of CUTLER!

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse


Actually, taylor, I was referencing JLC's post from yesterday that stated Eddie Royal was the big receiver that the SKins need.

Not an indictment of him or CULTER !

Posted by: cej75024 | January 8, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

No he was busy being the best TE in the country.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 1:42 PM

Seemed like Dustin Keller had a good year. Is it me or does USC seem like it has a higher ratio of fail-to-succeed in the NFL than other schools. Seems like USC is five deep in roster spots with guys who would be starters anywhere else, but then when they get to the NFL, its kind of "feh".

Did any of these guys do anything special this year (these are the USC picks from the previous draft ... 10 guys)? The name Keith Rivers jumps off the page at me, but that's it.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#dt-tab-set-1:dt-by-college/college-50

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

you think cowher would come here? never, not unless vinny goes and he gets his people in place. snyder wouldn't like giving up control of his team. won't happen.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 8, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Redskin21,
When does your self-published thriller novel go to press?

Posted by: mack1 | January 8, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

psps23, because JC can't read the field. And, he's scary to thrown the damn ball.. If you know your line not good, then adjust. That means throw or run with the damn ball!!! That's what a QB do!!!!

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"He better fix it in 1, or Shanahan and Cowher will be smelling those burgundy and gold dollars.


Posted by: psps23"

are those like Disney dollars?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

no, they're like 'schrute bucks', and 'stanley nickels'....but very much unlike 'bonus points'.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

taylormade-
bang bang to the boogity beat- i'm with ya brother.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 8, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"Rookie Fred Davis was supposed to be the man to help make that happen. For Coach Jim Zorn's system to perform at an optimal level, it requires two vertical tight ends who can get downfield and make things happen in the passing game. That never materialized, with Davis often a healthy scratch and taking all season to begin getting a proper feel for the playbook. At times he did not know whether to pass protect or get out into a route."

It's a shame this didn't work out because Davis should be a big, powerful possession type in the Eddie Royal mode.

Posted by: herb6 | January 8, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

you think cowher would come here? never, not unless vinny goes and he gets his people in place. snyder wouldn't like giving up control of his team. won't happen.

Posted by: dadanimal

-------

Even Snyder wants to win more than anything else.

Twice he's fired/demoted Vinny. Once with Marty (proven head coach), once with Gibbs (proven head coach). What makes you think Cowher and Shanahan wouldn't get the same initial respect from Danny?

If the Skins fail again, both Vinny and Zorn will be sent packing. Bank on it. (Well maybe Vinny sticks around, but not as a GM).

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Anton,

Davis may or not be a 'retard' who has to learn how to study, but to me, he's worth the wait.

Thomas and Kelly, on the other hand, were the bad picks.

How do you get drafted out of major college program to play in the NFL and show up to August practices out of shape?

If the FO would've waited and not wasted this year's picks, Terry Robiskie, jr-Ohio State(think Anthony Gonzalez, good slot receiver y'all)/Mohammod Mossaquoi-UGA/or Lewis Murphy-UF, would be better wide receiver choices.

..but 'if' is a big word...

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 8, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

"psps23, because JC can't read the field. And, he's scary to thrown the damn ball..

Posted by: taylormade218"

He can't read the field? Is that why he had the lowest interceptions of any starting QB in the league?

And he's afraid to throw the ball? Is that why his two most commonly double-teamed receivers (Moss and Cooley) combined for over 160 receptions?

You're searching for something that's not there my man...

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Taylor, how would you have liked JC to adjust, start calling his own plays... you can only do so much with the hand your dealt. to think a rook who has never seen an nfl field co do better is complete insanity...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

More on USC draft picks ...

2007 draft (5 guys) ... Steve Smith in NYG, Ryan Kalil in Carolina (Dallas Sartz to Skins).

2006 draft (11 guys) ... Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, Winston Justice, Deuce Lutui, LenDale White, etc. Snooze.

2005 draft (5 guys) ... Lofa Tatupu, Mike Williams, Matt Cassel! Snore.

2004 draft (4 guys) ... Therapy necessary.

2003 (5 guys) ... seems like the most recent "good" year ... Carson Palmer, Troy Polomalu, Justin Fargas.

How long has Pete Carroll been over-achieving there? Is it just media hype?

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Thinking out loud. USC is over-exposed. No way to find a "late round gem" there. The performance you see on the field in a guy's final year there is as good as its going to get. Just like early round guys are always hit-or-miss, USC has some hits and misses in the early rounds. In the late rounds, you get misses (Cassel is the exception).

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

And, PLEASE SKINS get another running back to back up Portis... Betts is some garbage! He has no cut move..

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

This one is right on, I hope they cut Rock, return Betts to kickoff returns (remember, he was good at this early in his career) and sign Sproles or Ward. We have got to get a game breaker on offense other than Moss, and we apparently can't do that at receiver so we gotta go elsewhere. Give CP and Ward/Sproles 15 touches a game each of some sort of variety runs/pass and then hope that Thomas or Kelly or Davis emerges as a threat.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Um maybe USC's problem is that they are west coast players, and NFL players need to be made of harder stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

In the late rounds, you get misses (Cassel is the exception).

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:13 PM

sween,

In the late rounds, most guys from most schools are misses. But exceptions like Cassel make up for a lot of misses.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I hate USC.

USC = Dallas Cowboys = New York Yankees

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

agree we need a new no 2 RB. I would cut Betts before Rock

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

aGREE ZEESE, WE DESPRATELY NEED A HOME RUN HITTER WHO CAN SPELL PORTIS, SINCE WE MADE OUR BED AT wr AND tE AND BASICALLY qb


DAMN CAPS AGAIN

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST -- CLOSING FRIDAY:

Make a statement that will be kind of true one year from now (related to the Skins, of course). The most outrageous statement that is in the ballpark, wins. Up to 5 statements per person.

Got about 70 entries so far, some pretty good/funny stuff, like cl's "Wow, Has Haynesworth lost it or what"

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 8, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

If Blache wants to retire -- as rumored -- will the Redskins go after Crennel?

Do the Redskins need a offensive coordinator to help Zorn on game day?

Do you think Snyder is talking to Shanahan? If nothing else, that guy can coach offense.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

agree we need a new no 2 RB. I would cut Betts before Rock

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 2:18 PM

I would bring a back into camp and see if he can beat out either of these guys for a job. The last one, Marcus Mason, couldn't.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"How do you get drafted out of major college program to play in the NFL and show up to August practices out of shape?"

Posted by: MistaMoe

It's great to hear that Devin Thomas has to get away during this offseason. All that difficult route-running this season, he's earned it.

That Malcolm Kelly, though, is a jackass. All he wants to do is stick around an mooch off Redskins Park. Dude needs to learn from Devin Thomas.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I hate USC.

USC = Dallas Cowboys = New York Yankees

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 2:17 PM

Well, if we're piling on, I'd like to add Notre Dame and power rankings to this heap.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

DPC, jerry gray, our DB coach is getting a lot of looks at DC elsewhere. If blache goes and he is here, i expect a promotion.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

And if you didnt know, i am pretty sure blache has agreed to come back this year...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

If Blache wants to retire -- as rumored -- will the Redskins go after Crennel?

Do the Redskins need a offensive coordinator to help Zorn on game day?

Do you think Snyder is talking to Shanahan? If nothing else, that guy can coach offense.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:20 PM

I'm thinking three "no"s. My answer would be "yes" if you changed:

Crennel to Jerry Gray

Game day to game plan

and

Can coach offense to can be GM

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

He can't read the field? Is that why he had the lowest interceptions of any starting QB in the league?

And he's afraid to throw the ball? Is that why his two most commonly double-teamed receivers (Moss and Cooley) combined for over 160 receptions?

You're searching for something that's not there my man...

And, were are we?? On the couch!! Stats don't mean anything in this league. It's about who wants it more.. And, JC just haven't shown he wants to be QB in this league. He's was never a good QB in college and in the Pro he's a second to third QB with a cannon arm.. That's it!!

I know you watch the games!! Have JC every won a game for us other then his first this year against the Saints?? There are so many QB in this league passing this guy by with learning the game.

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

dcsween,

The USC post is dead on.

It killed me how Bush came out of college labeled as the next great thing and wound up in New Orleans where he's just another fast guy in the NFL....something of which there are plenty.

I think the total lack of an NFL team in LA is what has created the 'Trojan Illusion'...that plus beating up on slow Big Ten teams every other January in the Rose Bowl.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 8, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Re: offensive coordinator, there is a guy who has that job, Zorn's buddy Sherman Smith (former expansion Seahawk RB and Titan's RB coach).

The offensive brain trust needs someone who thinks about "west coast receivering" or "west coast offensive lining" (to the extent that offensive line play is any different for a west coast offense ... I don't sense there really is, but I think Joe Bugel is going to be thinking about retiring ... or passing away ... at some point).

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm giving RedDMV a full desadulation.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"He's was never a good QB in college"

Your butchering of the English language aside....WOW....Post of the day....congrats, I'm less intelligent since having read that post...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Taylor, how would you have liked JC to adjust, start calling his own plays... you can only do so much with the hand your dealt. to think a rook who has never seen an nfl field co do better is complete insanity...

You don't think campbell looks like a rookie sometimes?? Excuse me.. all the time??

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"Davis also needed to learn how to watch film and how to study his playbook; his focus, maturity and concentration were a concern for coaches." That is a polite way of saying the dud is a retard. What was he doing at USC? Learning how to not focus, be immature and not concentrate?

Posted by: AntonChigurh

I actually saw a video that was filmed of the USC team waiting to get on or off the team bus before the Rose Bowl. A reporter was asking random members of the team "What do you think of Joe Biden?". Every single player asked except for the quarterback said that they never heard of the guy. You can draw your own conclusions from that, but I see it as these guys who attend a football U like USC are in school for one purpose only--play football. Any good study habits that they pick up along the way probably did not originate at USC.

Posted by: driley | January 8, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

2nd back to Portis....?

I'm on record as supporting the following FA acquisitions:

Derrick Ward-jints
Darren Sproles-- chargers

I'd cut Betts as Rock has special teams value.

I'd tell Portis--"No practice equals no play."--and that sharing the ball will save his legs for December/January.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 8, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"It killed me how Bush came out of college labeled as the next great thing and wound up in New Orleans where he's just another fast guy in the NFL....something of which there are plenty.

Posted by: MistaMoe"

Bush came to New Orleans and set a rookie record for most catches by a running back. This year he led the NFL in touchdowns before he got hurt. When healthy, Bush is a special player and a triple threat that can score on any given play, whether throught the air, on the ground, or on a return.

If you want to rag on Bush, do it because his knees are made of glass. But saying that he's "something of which there are plenty" is completely ridiculous. There isn't a player in the league that matches his overall skillset.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

What could we get for Betts who is desperate for a RB?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Moe, so, in addition to paying 2.8 million for Betts NOT to be here, how much would you be paying Ward/Sproles??

The RB spot, like the CB/S spots are area's the team does not need to upgrade.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

TE is the least of the Skins concerns, what could JLC have said wrong, we should have taken John Carlson from Notre Dame?

Posted by: chirsch | January 8, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Sorry taylor, you just dont know football. The West Coast offense took the likes of Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck, Steve Young, Donovan McNabb longer than one year to master.

We have so many other holes on this team, you have to see what you have in JC, 1 if not 2 more years...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Sween -- I meant to say that Shanahan can "coach" in that he knows how to run an offense. His Denver teams have always done well.

Were I Synder, I would get Shanahan in to get a second opinion on why the Redskins had such a piss-poor offense, and what needs to be done to fix it.

I am NOT sure that Shanahan is a great personnel guy. A lot of his FA haven't done nearly as well elsewhere as they did in Denver. So, maybe not a great candidate for GM.

Same with Holmgren at a GM spot.

Maybe Bill Cowher would make a pretty good GM/Player Personnel guy. He seems to find a lot of talent.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

You don't think campbell looks like a rookie sometimes?? Excuse me.. all the time??

Posted by: taylormade218


No, rookies throw interceptions and have a low completion %, not throw for 3000+ yards, lead the league in INTs (on the low end), and have a decent completion %.

Look elsewhere for the problems, like where our receivers are on 3rd down, or where our receivers are on 2nd down, or where our receivers are on 1st down, or whoever is calling the plays to put the receivers whereever they are on any given down.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Thank you psps

Posted by: Zeebs | January 8, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I've supported Jason from day one, but if he doesn't show rapid improvement next year, they should let him walk.

Posted by: chirsch | January 8, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Please fire Vinnie Cerrato. I guess he wasnt in the 10% layoff group which were obviously not related to past performance

Posted by: cerrato_bites | January 8, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

1) Sam Baker, 1st round #21 - pretty good when starting, had some injury issues

2) John David Booty, 5th round #5 - no one expected anything from him

3) Fred Davis, 2nd round #17 - jury still out, looks promising (to me)

4) Chilo Rachal, 2nd round #8 - he was looked at with doubt. He either had injury problems in college or some other reason people didn't wanna take a chance on him, so whatever they get or don't get is pretty fair.

5) Keith Rivers, 1st round #9 - good year

The rest really didn't have much hype. Washington the RB didn't have expectations of most other USB RB's. And most of them went in later rounds, so you can't really call 'em busts.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

psps23, I agree with you on Bush.

And... LenDale White scored 15 touchdowns this year. Totufu lead the Seahawks in tackles. Linehart the jury's still out: Warner is performing at a Pro Bowl level and there's no reason to think Linehart can't play.

USC has some pretty good talent and their overall draft performance is pretty impressive. ND, OSU, and PSU, on the other hand, are way over-hyped.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"I actually saw a video that was filmed of the USC team waiting to get on or off the team bus before the Rose Bowl. A reporter was asking random members of the team "What do you think of Joe Biden?". Every single player asked except for the quarterback said that they never heard of the guy. You can draw your own conclusions from that, but I see it as these guys who attend a football U like USC are in school for one purpose only--play football. Any good study habits that they pick up along the way probably did not originate at USC.

Posted by: driley"


being a smart football player doesn't = knowing politics

I wish I didn't know who Joe Biden was.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I actually saw a video that was filmed of the USC team waiting to get on or off the team bus before the Rose Bowl. A reporter was asking random members of the team "What do you think of Joe Biden?". Every single player asked except for the quarterback said that they never heard of the guy. You can draw your own conclusions from that, but I see it as these guys who attend a football U like USC are in school for one purpose only--play football. Any good study habits that they pick up along the way probably did not originate at USC.

Posted by: driley | January 8, 2009 2:33 PM

What I would conclude is that the reporter should be in another line of work. A bunch of guys getting ready for the Rose Bowl should be thinking about the game. And so should the reporter. If Joe Biden doesn't play on the other team, then why is he a relevant question?

Only in a politically obsessed city like DC would someone think this is a relevant question to ask a guy going to play in the Rose Bowl.

Who is Joe Biden, anyway?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"There isn't a player in the league that matches his overall skillset.

Posted by: psps23 "

he's a good player, but I wouldn't go that far

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"I've supported Jason from day one, but if he doesn't show rapid improvement next year, they should let him walk."

He only shows rapid improvement if the rest of the offense shows rapid improvement. You're talking as if it's all on his shoulders. QB isn't an independent entity that's not affected by outside variables.

Beginning of the year:

Offesive line + Portis = healthy = JC plays well = 6-2

Last half of the year:

Offensive line = old + hurt = No running game = JC doesn't play as well

This isn't even mentioning rookie WR's and a rookie playcaller...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 8, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The Skins should try to trade back possibly with Detroit for their 1st(#20) and their 3rd round (picked up from dallas). #20 Duke Robinson OG or Eben Britton, OT. Pickup Vernon Carey in FA and move him depending on who you get i.e Leonard Davis. (2) 3rd rounders Rush LB & DT

Posted by: fj8152001 | January 8, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

There isn't a player in the league that matches his overall skillset.

Posted by: psps23

RB's with more Catches:
Matt Forte
Maurice Jones-Drew
Kevin Faulk
Brian Westbrook
Marion Barber
LaDainian Tomlinson (tied Bush in catches)

There are 45 more Runing backs with more runs this year. Including everyone above except Faulk.

Think of it this way Bush is gets about 1000 yards a year for his O. 16 RB's did that this year just running and 22 WR did it through the air. I am sure there are a ton more RB's who did it both on air and ground but I have wasted enough time proving Bush is a middle of the road threat.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

alex is not giving Bush (when healthy) enough credit, and psps23 is giving Bush too much credit.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I understand people are down on Campbell. The offense sucks and the QB gets the blame.

Undeserved in my mind, and as others have posted, statistics say he's playing well.

The only thing I really haven't seen is good touch on a deep ball. But he really hasn't had the time to throw deep without dodging blitzing safeties, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt there.

Whatever the problems the Redskins have -- when I am yelling at the TV "THROW IT!!!" -- it's not Jason Campbell. Aint nobody open, dawg.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

The Skins should try to trade back possibly with Detroit for their 1st(#20) and their 3rd round (picked up from dallas).

Posted by: fj8152001 | January 8, 2009 2:53 PM

Why would Detroit want to give up draft picks? They need an infusion of young talent as much as the Redskins do. Need to find a team, like Dallas or NY Jets, that is always looking to jump up and grab the illusory brass ring.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Why would Detroit want to give up draft picks? They need an infusion of young talent as much as the Redskins do. Need to find a team, like Dallas or NY Jets, that is always looking to jump up and grab the illusory brass ring.

Posted by: talent_evaluator "

or the Washington Redskins?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

or the Washington Redskins?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:58 PM

I started to write that, but the only time I can remember that they jumped up for the big one was when they grabbed Chris Samuels and LaVar Arrington at 2 and 3. Other than that, I think they have been sort of balanced between trading up and trading back.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 8, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

However LaVar and Samuels were nither busts nor HOF types.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

alex is not giving Bush (when healthy) enough credit, and psps23 is giving Bush too much credit.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 2:54 PM


Bush is good, but he's just not the world beater everyone thought he would be coming out of USC.
His speed on the edges is remarkable, but hes not an every-down back, because he can't run between the tackles effectively.

Thats why a real GM, Charlie Casserly of Houston, sniffed this out and passed on him for DE Mario Williams. And to think 2 years later the Texans got a speed guy who can run between the tackles in Steve Slaton.

See what a real GM/FO can do for you?

Posted by: Predator48 | January 8, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

alex, that's a distorted comparison and you know it. Bush played in about 8 games this year (he's listed at 10, put 2 of them he was hurt within the first quarter and didn't play the rest of the game). In 8 games Bush put up 50 receptions. No RB even comes close to that.

And how many of those guys are return threats the way Bush is? 3 return TDs in 8 games...

As a rusher, Bush is average, but is still a threat to take it on any given down.

As a receiver, Bush is Wes Welker. As a returner, Bush is Devin Hester. As a runner, Bush is Willie Parker (check out Big Willie's YPC vs. Bush's). Now name me one of those players on your list that combines all 3 into 1 player.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

No huddle situation? What's that? Oh yeah, something other teams do to keep defenses off-balance. Our offense apparently doesn't need to resort to such gimmicks (it's so scary powerful as it is).

And another rookie who can't master the playbook, concentrate or watch film? What colleges did these guys go to where there was no playbook or film watching required? I guess they're just used to drawing up plays in the sand.

It's also good to know Zorn's offense can't work without 2 vertical tight ends (presumably like the ones Seattle had all these years?). I didn't have that on my list of Reasons the Skins Offense Sucks. I just added it right below, "The same receivers we have had for years can no longer get open" and "defenses got away with double-teaming Moss AND Cooley on every down by illegally playing 12 men".

Very enlightening.

Posted by: saqster | January 8, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Had they stayed put in 2001, they had 3 first rounders correct?? where were they, I know they had #2, wasn't it 18 and 23?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 8, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I also see a trend starting that Bush has been playing less games every season. He is a slot WR/2RB

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Put it this way: if you don't think a healthy Reggie Bush would DRAMATICALLY impact this team by his receiving ability (you think teams would leave him 1 v 1 versus a LB or safety in order to double Moss and Cooley all game long?), return ability (how does Randle El do again?), and explosive ability on the edges and in open space (isn't this the only criticism we give the Portis/Betts/Cartwright tandem?), you must be smoking.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

So, what's the rule of thumb on trading draft picks? Can you trade an early first round pick for a late second and a third? Or maybe a middle second and a fourth?

Seems like there must be a basic formula there, even though there are a lot of intangibles.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

TheTruth11 and dpc2003, neither of you is disagreeing with me. With early (first/second) round picks, USC players have as much success in the pros as anyone else. Its the USC guys picked in the later rounds who are as good as their ever going to be (see Dallas Sartz). Overexposure means you get what you pick for from USC.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

stumped there is a chart of value.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

LOL...

I remember a few months back i got into a good natured debate over the hype that is Reginald BUST with psps23.

Reggie Bush? Ugh, dude had ALL that hype coming out of USC - he was supposed to be the next Barry Sanders, then he was supposed to be the second coming of Gayle Sayers - and to date has been the second coming of Eric Metcalf.

psps23, i respect your opinions and all, but between your love affair with 'Los Rogers and Reggie Bush, I'm curious to know if you have an agenda for carrying the flag for these guys.

Do you know them personally? Have you done contracting work for them? Did they sign an autograph for you?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Stumped and alex#####, the rule of thumb is that deals with the Skins are always better for the other trade partner than they are for the Skins.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

F the pacman

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

If Blache wants to retire -- as rumored -- will the Redskins go after Crennel?

Do the Redskins need a offensive coordinator to help Zorn on game day?

Do you think Snyder is talking to Shanahan? If nothing else, that guy can coach offense.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:20 PM

I've heard absolutely nothing about Blache wanting to retire - he was planning to retire LAST YEAR but Snyder talked him out of it and he said he was very happy that he had changed his mind.

Yes, Zorn does need a very experienced "creative" OC but it will not be Shanahan. ESPN (and the NFL Network) has been reporting that he plans to take a year off. Even if that were not the case, can anyone seriously see Shanahan (who had TOTAL control of the Broncos) coming to the Skins (or any team) and simply coaching the offense with no authority? I think not.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 8, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Build the Oline and really see what you have with Campbell, Fred Davis, Thomas and Kelly. We don't need great skill players what we need is a great oline and dline

Posted by: fj8152001 | January 8, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _D7_ | January 8, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Whatever the problems the Redskins have -- when I am yelling at the TV "THROW IT!!!" -- it's not Jason Campbell. Aint nobody open, dawg.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

OPEN is a relative term. They may not be OPEN enough for JC to throw them the ball, but they're open. Other QBs routinely throw to guys who are seemingly covered. I remember the TD pass that Romo threw to his rookie tight end to beat the Skins. Dude was blanketed, but Romo put the ball up and his guy came down with it. And since I brought him up, if JC moved around in the pocket like Romo, no one would be complaining about our O line.

I'm not advocating JC play as reckelessly as Romo, but "covered" receivers make plays every week in the NFL. There's a happy medium between how JC played this year and how Romo and Favre play. JC needs to find it.

BTW, other receivers who "were never open". The Falcons WRs before Vick left. The Titans WRs before Young got injured. Houston's WRs when Carr was their QB (funny how their O line was terrible as well). Our receivers before Todd Collins came in last year.

And as I've said before, other offenses find ways to move the ball without relying so heavily on wide receivers getting open (see Chargers and KC Chiefs all those years they were one of the best offenses in football).

Posted by: saqster | January 8, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

If Shanahan didn't want to go to Oakland a few years back, what makes anyone think he'd come here.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Nah Red, just have my favorites, as does everyone else on this blog.

Has he justified the rep of the next Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers? Of course not. But for someone to say that there are several players just like him is ridiculous. The fact that you have to compare him to one of the more unique players in the history of the game provides evidence of that.

I enjoy watching exciting football, and Reggie Bush definitely provides that.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

While I definitely think JC deserves one more year as a starter and shouldn't even be questioned right now. I don't agree with the "can't see the field, what about lowest INT's in the league" comment.

He was healthy all season, all of his starting skill players were healthy all season, for most of the season he had the leagues leading rusher, and he threw 13 TD's in 16 games. That aint good. Yeah he only threw six picks, but how much of that has to do with lack of a downfield effort ever and overall risk avoidance.

I watch a lot of other football and I see QB's challenging defenses and throwing balls to receivers even if covered if its single coverage and taking shots deep regularly. We went entire games with out attempting a pass over 20 yards and JC only throws the ball to receivers on slants, screens, or if they are standing wide open. He rarely gives his guy a chance to make a play.

That said, the Oline issues and the lack of talent at wideout, and the first year in a new system gets him a pass, no pun intended, on this season, but next year better be a lot better than 13 TD's in 16 games.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 8, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Bush is a good receiver out the backfield; so was Roger Craig, Larry Centers, Ricky Watters, and others I can't think of.

psps, you keep citing the fact that Bush catches a lot of passes. So what? I gurantee that he wouldn't catch as many if he were split wide (although he does, but most of his catches are out the backfield -screens and stuff). If your boy is so good change is number from 25 to 85 and have him run routes.

Another reason Bush catches so many passes is because the Saints play alot of three wide sets. Most of the cover guys on the opposing defense is downfield, leaving Bush with a LB and space...

Sh*t you give me one one coverage with a LB and open space, and I'll make 'ish happen.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

redmv, don't know if you know the history of shanahan and oakland. shanahan has a 7-8 year lawsuit against the raidaws claiming that al davis witheld like a $100K or something from him. shanahan hates al davis!

also if shanahan, a two time superbowl winner, comes here it won't be to just coach the offense it will be to FIRE zorn, coach of about 10 people in the last 30 years and only one amounted to anything worth mentioning.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/08/adam-pacman-jones-says-hell-sue-espn-over-report-of-his-invol/


JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 8, 2009 3:06 PM

Well, He needs to find some way to get some dough, even if it is a futile attempt. Shame he pissed away a good, possibly great career because he wanted to live life as a gangsta-rap video star.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 8, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

agree psps, Bush is exciting to watch when doing his thing.

They played the USC/Texas game on ESPN classic last night. His lone TD of the game was all speed. Turned the corner and took it straight to the crib...

I wonder after the microfracture surgery, will he have that same burst, and crazy cutting ability that he had, especially at USC.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry but Reggie Bush couldn't carry Marcus Mason's jock strap.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

sween,
The equation includes a greater than symbol always pointed away from the skins.

I was trying to decide if it made sense to trade up or down in the draft, normally, I'd say trade down, but we don't have a real high pick this year. But if you don't use it on a DE or DL player that can start, might as well trade down and work on the OL.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about this year is that the Skins might have made the playoffs, if:

a) Brooks had come out strong and stayed strong, or
b) Suisham had even been an average kicker.
c) {fill in an alphabet of other variables here}

Keep in mind making the playoffs and going anywhere in the playoffs are two very different things. I hope the Skins are thinking about 2010 or 2011, not about 2009...but you know how that goes.

Well, there are no more illusions. That's for sure.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

reggie bush's lone nfl career highlight: kim kardashian

Posted by: dealer1 | January 8, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

I may go overboard but is PacMan gonna be the next OJ minus the talent?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather have Shanahan over Zorn right now. But if Zorn were to make great strides next year, then I'd think he should come back for his 3rd season.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

With all this "we should draft this guy" or "we should draft that guy" is a waste. I think some people have forgotten the fact that a man by the name of Vinny is, unfortunetly, in charge. So all that goes right out the window. That being said, the skins will probably end up trading up and taking two or three punters followed by another wide-out. There is your draft class of 2009! Brought to you in part by Vinny C.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | January 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Sounds about right. Add 1 more tackle that can also play guard, pray that Rhinehart and Davis do step up next year and draft a kicker.

Draft done.

"If we stay with the current picks this mock has us taking to good linemen.

Washington Redskins: Eben Britton, OT, Arizona
The Redskins have major problems at right tackle. Jon Jansen, who turns 33 in January, is playing on his last legs. Eben Britton would fit in well on the right side, and could potentially slide over to the blind side once Samuels' time is up.

Washington Redskins: Anthony Parker, G, Tennessee
Washington's offensive line needs some young blood. Pete "I Think I'm a Running Back" Kendall and Randy Thomas will be 35 and 33, respectively, by the start of the 2009 NFL season."

Posted by: periculum | January 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,
Yes. Confident QBs can deliver those shots and I yelled at the screen every weekend, throw it now, throw it now. You gotta get rid of it.

Campbell can't be confident, under the circumstances.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Y'all, I didn't say bring Shanahan here to COACH. I asked if Snyder was TALKING to Shanahan. I should have said "If nothing else, Shanahan KNOWS offense, and could CONSULT".

Since Mike is between jobs, he could discuss the offense with Synder and help him figure out what's going on. JZ is an honest guy, but Synder could benefit from a second opinion, especially from a guy who KNOWS offense like Shanahan.


I beg to differ re: the Redskins offense and Tony Oh-no. He and Farve are wild gamblers and I don't want to see that here.

Why should Campbell trust guys to make a play when he hits them in the HANDS and they can't catch it?

And... look at some of those offenses more closely. Yes, sometimes a receiver has to make a play. But a lot of the big time offenses, WR are running free in the middle of the field a LOT. Not all the time, but a LOT of the time. And they're running across or upfield so they can make big YAC.

Doesn't happen here.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I strongly suspect that Snidely Owl, our fearless leader, agrees with you Lisa. However, look for Snidely to pick the coach first, not Zorn.

"Yes, Zorn does need a very experienced "creative" OC but it will not be Shanahan. ESPN (and the NFL Network) has been reporting that he plans to take a year off."

Posted by: periculum | January 8, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

WELL IF NOT IN THE FIRST ROUND... IF WE CAN SOMEHOW GET A COUPLE 2ND ROUND PICKS.. TEXAS TECH HAS SOME (HOG) POTENTIAL.. THEIR O-LINE WAS BIG AND ATHLETIC.. GIMME SOME FEEDBACK FELLAZ!!!

Posted by: pjfromva | January 8, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Red-neckked (sorry, its a typo I could resist posting),

I understand. But I still gotta come up with a contest entry...something likely, but outlandishly vinerreto or synderesque.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

#1 Target: The Raiduhs. If they can trade for guys like Robert Gallery, similar players ...

"Need to find a team, like Dallas or NY Jets, that is always looking to jump up and grab the illusory brass ring."

Posted by: periculum | January 8, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"psps, you keep citing the fact that Bush catches a lot of passes. So what?

Posted by: RedDMV"

So what??

What more do you want from a guy running his routes? He gets open, he catches the ball, he runs with it (and he's a damn good runner in open space).

If it's such an easy thing to do, especially within the Saints' system, why in a combined 28 games did Pierre Thomas and Deuce Mccalister have less receptions combined than Bush did in 8 games?

With every post, you're making my case for me. You're comparing him to historically great RBs (even though he's definitely a better receiver than Watters and Centers). You basically hit the nail on the head with Roger Craig. That's who Bush is right now -- plus the dynamic return ability. And being a Roger Craig is FAR from being a "bust".

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

-Stumped,
Thats alright, and I totally agree with your reasoning. BTW, my sig is nothing but a play on words anyways. I'm not a redneck nor skinhead, but put them together and you got a kickazz name.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | January 8, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

oh you're too darn funny, bean.. lol

dealer, yeah he Bush damn sure scored BIG when he landed Kimmy K. I'd love taking that to the house and running it back to the house - several times. and she's going to be bad when she gets older, have you seen her mom?

alex, nope. you're SPOT on with the Pacman/OJ comparison. Only I think that Pacman's live will be claimed by the streets.

I don't think the dude lives to see 35.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

KKardash, is a very pretty woman....great, great figure.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I thought TexTech ran a very spread out OL didn't they? My GF saw something on 60min on that.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 8, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Hey Saquester, I've been to the games as well as watched on TV. They're not open much. For some reason, defenses are adjusting and covering the patterns and the throws are just not there. Maybe it's a timing thing, I don't know.

But it's a rare play that fools a CB to turning loose a WR to help that isn't there.

In fact, I don't remember the Redskins facing a lot of zone this year.

Correct me please, but aren't they seeing a lot of press coverage with doubles on Moss?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

JLC is starting to become a joke. I'm sure everyone gets more info from the comments than JLC.

Can someone please tell me ONE West Coast offense that employs two "vertical" TEs at the same? I can recall one good TE on those teams but can't recall anyone employing two as a necessity. More excuses for Zorn.

Please don't buy the hype that this team is talentless either. Does Baltimore, Atlanta, Tampa, or Minnesota have better pass catchers than the Skins? I ain't buying it fellas.

While I agree that we need to upgrade the O-line and get younger, it is the same line that had the leagues leading rusher after 9 games this year. Again, we need to get younger but injuries played a factor.

It all comes down to coaching and we have the biggest hole there. Bad and predictable play calling was the downfall in the second half. I'm interested in seeing the "Rock Cartwright" love the JLC will shower on the coaching staff.

Posted by: dcwun | January 8, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

this team will never be good until dan snyder dies

Posted by: ineptitudinality | January 8, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"I'm interested in seeing the "Rock Cartwright" love the JLC will shower on the coaching staff."

DCWUN,
Oh, I hope JLC doesn't think he can skate past the coaches. It may be a golden shower.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

psps, Centers was good back in the day, maybe for his time.

what quantifies as a bust in your book? to me it's a guy who's performance on the field doesn't justify his draft spot.

Bush was a #2 OVERALL selection. His numbers and performance doesn't justify the spot where he was chosen - to date, so to date Bush is a bust IMO.

Same applies to your other boy, Carlos Rogers. Both contribute to their teams - it isn't like Bush is Curtis Enis (yet!) or Rogers is (um, Pacman?)

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"Sh*t you give me one one coverage with a LB and open space, and I'll make 'ish happen.

Posted by: RedDMV | "


uhhh no, you really couldn't...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

With every post, you're making my case for me. You're comparing him to historically great RBs (even though he's definitely a better receiver than Watters and Centers). You basically hit the nail on the head with Roger Craig. That's who Bush is right now -- plus the dynamic return ability. And being a Roger Craig is FAR from being a "bust".

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 3:46 PM


Roger Craig was way more durable than Bush is showing to be. Like I said before, he is great in open space and on the edges, but he cannot take the pounding of running through the tackles, and thats what you draft a number one overall back for.

So while he may catch like Roger Craig, or be a better backfield runner than Devin Hester, in the end you still need a complimentary back to get the grind it out yards.

Hindsight being what it is, its starting to look like he wasn't worth the number one overall pick IMO.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 8, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"I thought TexTech ran a very spread out OL didn't they? My GF saw something on 60min on that.

Posted by: alex35332 "


yeah they do

and psps23, here's my favorite play from Reggie Bush :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQUiZ6ioKw&feature=related

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

DCWun, agree that the play calling was pedestrian the second half. I got frustrated with the lack of misdirection in the running game. Not much trickeration either, reverses, option passes, flea-flickers. How many times did Campbell run a bootleg on the goal line?

And the 15 play script... it was like somebody leaked it to the defense. yeah, JZ got to see coverages, but he kept repeating the script and had a collection of 3-and-outs to start the game.

JZ badly needs to figure out what happened -- including play-calling -- second half of season.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Stumped...You know JLC will place the blame at the feet of everyone but the coaches. Make it rain JLC, make it rain!

Posted by: dcwun | January 8, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

this team will never be good until dan snyder dies

Posted by: ineptitudinality | January 8, 2009 3:53 PM

this team (Oakland or Washington) will never be good until dan snyder (Did you mean Al Davis or Snyder?) dies

It's sad both teams were once prominent franchises, and have become the laughstock of their respected conferences.

I would say the Lions but they look good when they lose. The 'skins just look like someone took their cookies, lunch money, and manhood when they lose.

At least Oakland fans can take solace in the fact that Davis will be biting the dust (or turning into it) very soon.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Anyone like Vincent Jackson of the Chargers as WR?
Guess he'll be a FA next year?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 8, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

BIG story on the Oklahoma and Florida game over at CHFF.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2624_BCS_title_game%3A_some_stats_never_change.html

Story? Story, you say? What story?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Sorry taylor, you just dont know football. The West Coast offense took the likes of Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck, Steve Young, Donovan McNabb longer than one year to master.

We have so many other holes on this team, you have to see what you have in JC, 1 if not 2 more years...


Zeebs, did you just compare JC to Favre, McNabb, Young, and Montana?? Are you SERIOUS?? Ok, I can understand it takes maybe 1 to 2 years to learn any offense, but you don't think when a offense play breaks down these QB didn't find a way to make a play?? There were holes on these guys teams and they didn't play like JC. JC, do not have the talent these guys have.. and you know that!!!

Posted by: taylormade218 | January 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

poster @ 4 PM, how the F do you kow what I could and couldn't do? Do you know anything about what I've done, where I've been, what I'm capable of? I know for damn sure you most certainly do NOT, ma'F_cka.

Really, not to sound like an internet gangster, but I'd most likely would straight punish you if I were to throw the hands with you. Just sayin'. I'm almost willing to bet the rent money on this.

F it, we could meet in a netural place, if you REALLY want to find out.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Red - Bush may end up as a bust because of his injuries, not his ability. His ability is worthy of a #2 overall pick. Cedric Benson is a bust. Reggie Bush is not (although obviously he's not a Peyton Manning type pick either).

And Rogers has more than justified #9 overall pick. He's a top starter in this league. Make a list of CBs that you think are better, and see how many of them were not drafted in the 1st round. Not every #9 or #2 overall pick turns into a hall of famer.

Predator - My entire argument is based on skillset, not durability. I've already said if you want to criticize Bush, do it because of his glass knees. But you can't deny his skillset.

Truth - he took that shot like a man. He also got up from that and ended with 93 total yards and a TD in a game the Saints won. Not bad for a rookie in the postseason.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

BIG story on the Oklahoma and Florida game over at CHFF.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2624_BCS_title_game%3A_some_stats_never_change.html

Story? Story, you say? What story?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 4:11 PM


Those stats are awesome!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 8, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

"Not every #9 or #2 overall pick turns into a hall of famer."

psps, you just made the point for me. if they don't have a decent career (if you're not at least questioning their HOF status) or they flat out don't make the HOF, and they were drafted that high (like #2 or #9), then that by definition is a BUST!!!

but man, we could debate this until the cows come home, the rapture, or whatever else, and we'll still get no where, but it's cool though...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"poster @ 4 PM, how the F do you kow what I could and couldn't do? Do you know anything about what I've done, where I've been, what I'm capable of? I know for damn sure you most certainly do NOT, ma'F_cka.

Really, not to sound like an internet gangster, but I'd most likely would straight punish you if I were to throw the hands with you. Just sayin'. I'm almost willing to bet the rent money on this.

F it, we could meet in a netural place, if you REALLY want to find out.

Posted by: RedDMV"


lol

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

and RedDMV actually just spelled things differently and used punctuation to show his slang on an internet blog?


Dude is lame.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Since Mike is between jobs, he could discuss the offense with Synder and help him figure out what's going on. JZ is an honest guy, but Synder could benefit from a second opinion, especially from a guy who KNOWS offense like Shanahan.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 8, 2009 3:41 PM

If I recall correctly, Gibbs deal here for 2.0 included some ownership stake. Gibbs is the guy for consulting, not Shanahan. Gibbs too old and conservative and non-winning in his thinking? No more than Shanahan.

Why for the love of jeebus would anyone be thinking that this team would be better if Snyder only stayed MORE involved in football decision-making?

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

poster @ 3:58 and 4 PM, I ain't pissy with you today, but I do wonder if you could hold your own in a fight.

To me you come across as someone who'd rather talk 'ish out his mother's window to the boys on the block, rather than getting dirty.

tell me something, did you have your mom or dad come to your school when you were being picked on, or did you stand up to the bully and throw hands?

something tells me you're straight up b*_@h.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

dude izza intahnet gangstah yo

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

this is gettin good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I ask about some real stuff, pose a real question, and you pull a straight bama move and though a weak ass insult.

You're straight puss, dude.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

this team (Oakland or Washington) will never be good until dan snyder (Did you mean Al Davis or Snyder?) dies

It's sad both teams were once prominent franchises, and have become the laughstock of their respected conferences.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:07 PM

HUGE difference between how the BECAME laughingstocks. Al Davis actually used to PLAY football. He once coached a pro team. The Raiders, when he was majority shareholder, actually WON three Super Bowls, and they made it and lost another time.

The Raiders were "once prominent" under Al Davis. Huge difference with the Skins franchise and its laughingstockdom under The Owner.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

What draft were you asking about the 2000 draft is when we had 3 picks but I think we traded up before the draft even started.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough Red, we'll simply disagree on the definition of "draft bust".

Personally, I think HOF players are a bonus, not an expectation. I don't care where they come from, or what round they were drafted. Some can be 1st rounders (Peyton), some can be 4th rounders (Montana), some 6th rounders (Brady). That doesn't mean every player drafted around their draft positions are considered busts because they didn't measure up to those guys.

Let me put it this way. Laron Landry is a great player. I think he'll end up being great for a while. There's no way I can tell whether or not he'll be a HOFer. And there's no shot I expect him to measure up to Sean Taylor, drafted 1 spot ahead of him. Still, purely based on his play this year, he was worth the pick. Sean Taylor, Peyton Manning, Barry Sanders, these guys are the exceptions, not the standards for draft picks.

Posted by: psps23 | January 8, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

indeed, dcsween. i guees i meant how both teams were actually considered among the better teams in football once a upon a time.

if you were to ask anyone while BOTH teams were on top, do you see in 20 years both teams in the crapper, i believe the answer would've been a resounding HELL NO.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 8, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

you're right Red

I don't keep it real cause I'm not gonna e-diss somebody


you though, man you keep it G for real, you're quick with the CTRL + 1 exclamation mark, word up


so lame dude

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

flound, thats what it was, 2000, not 01'. As usual, we should have stayed put, and kept what we had....oh well.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 8, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

anyway, I gotta go Red

have a great evening, see you tomorrow

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 8, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Red, Al Davis said (in 2007) that he wasn't going to retire until he won two more Super Bowls ... so I think the "until he dies" part probably makes sense. So many of the Raiders coaching staff have already left, I think the only ones left are the interim HC and the WR coach. Anyone looking to get a start in coaching?

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

We had the 2nd, 12th and 24th

We traded the 12th, 24th, 4th rounder and 5th rounder for the 49ers 3rd pick.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 8, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Sween aren't we forgetting Superbowl I where Al Davis (the original J. Jones, D. Snyder) thought
he was such a GREAT coach he replaced John Madden at half-time as head coach? They were only down by 3 points I think at that point.

Bart Starr and company blew them out in the 2nd half.

"HUGE difference between how the BECAME laughingstocks. Al Davis actually used to PLAY football. He once coached a pro team. The Raiders, when he was majority shareholder, actually WON three Super Bowls, and they made it and lost another time.

The Raiders were "once prominent" under Al Davis. Huge difference with the Skins franchise and its laughingstockdom under The Owner.

Posted by: dcsween | January 8, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 8, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I just had an idea for the contest.

(see Periculum's comment at 5:17 and replace Davis with Synder and Madden with Zorn. Oh, and replace superbowl with wild card playoff game)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Can we finally sign an Aussie kicker?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 8, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

+++So we're up to a possible $23 million in cap savings, assuming they do all of the above. For a team that should be focusing on young players and draft picks (with the few selections they have left), that's more than ample room
to make some moves.

Posted by: Flounder21+++

Granted. The issue remains how the money is spent. And that's the rub. Where has the curren administration been successful of late?

Getting Fletcher, yes. Hall COULD be a steal. But the $$$ spent for receivers--ARE, Receiver The, the three second Rounders,Taylor Jacobs, etc. has been a waste, o name the most egregious waste.

So where will they spend it? Who will evaluate he talent, and equallty important, the mental state and heart of the people they pay?

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

++++You're a self-loathing wannabe who in between breaks of beating off studies a Thesaurus, and somehow thinks the use of a polysyllable word will make your case for you.

A writer?

Ha

Posted by: MrRedskin21++++

Wow, look who's slithered out from under his rock again.

Self-loathing? OUCH. That really really hurts my feelings. It just make me HATE myself.

No need for YOU to be self-loathing. After all, you have the board to do it for you.

And again, with a sexual reference? Sally? Compensation, no doubt. I'll bet you drive a big sports car, too. All that continuous line of ad hominum attacks proves is your groin is smaller than your intellect.

And who needs polysyllables when I can call you a chuff, a fadge, a glump, a gnoff a Lorg and a ploot assured you KNOW you've been insulted, but haven't a clue how.


Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

+++But his posts still suck like an Electrolux.+++MrRedskin21

"suck like an Electrolux?

If you don't teach at a cliche academy, it's academia's loss. How long did it take you to come up with that sparkler? Call Dane Cook...I'm sure you can sell that gag to him--The CORK

+++I bet he's a mid 40-something +++

You idiot, that' the nicest thing you could say to me. How dumb is Mr.Redskin21? He's SOOOOOOO dumb he makes someone feel like a million bucks and thinks he's insulting him.

+++Go play with your man breasts, you lame maggot.

Posted by: MrRedskin21+++

Do maggots even have breasts?

Okay, I get it now. Going through puberty is so difficult, especially with the sexually conflicted. But your lame sex humor with all your posts, topped off with this one, explains you. I have just one question for you... Are you pre-op or post op? Because your surgeon still hasn't got your hormonal imbalance issues worked out yet.

Posted by: TheCork | January 8, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 8, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Listening to all of this trade talk reminds me of my childhood when I would scan MLB rosters and fantasize about my Senators getting an allstar in return for two or three utility players. Two things I've learned over the years; 1) You don't get better by trading your best players while they are approaching or in their prime, unless someone is really willing to give you enough to replace the player and then some. 2) Chances are if you want to trade a player because he is too old, expensive, beaten up, troublesome, etc....nobody is going to want them, period.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 8, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

reggie bush is way overated by the nfl.

Posted by: rls1041 | January 9, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"Let me put it this way. Laron Landry is a great player. I think he'll end up being great for a while. There's no way I can tell whether or not he'll be a HOFer. And there's no shot I expect him to measure up to Sean Taylor, drafted 1 spot ahead of him. Still, purely based on his play this year, he was worth the pick."

I have heard a rumor that Brian Dawkins might be on the radar. I would applaud him coming over, Dawkins and Landry would be a beast, he can spend his twilight helping us and mentoring Landry Horton and Moore as well as provide some TURNOVER potential. I'd much rather have Springs stay at corner (IF healthy) and bring over Dawkins.
And before anyone shouts Mark Carrier at me, this move would actually make sense. not to mention, Dawkins is way better.

Posted by: fullonfully | January 9, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Does this dude just absolutely hate our starting tailback??? "When you need a tough yard, put Ladell Betts behind Sellers, go with all the beef you can muster, and try to get it that way." Uhhh, do you remember the home Giants game of 2007? Betts was a little too antsy and DID NOT follow his Pro Bowl fullback and got stoned by defenders. JLC should have said, "When you need a tough yard, put Clinton Portis behind Sellers, go with all the beef you can muster, and try to get it that way." He gets paid because he is the man. He always has been and was the top running back on the greatest college football team of all time. Get over it.

Posted by: onnie007 | January 9, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Why the hell are we paying ARE 6.1 million dollars to be terrible at everything?

Posted by: ecale25 | January 9, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

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