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Redskins by Position: Wide Receivers

Today, we begin positional analysis of the offense. We'll start away from the ball and work in by opening with the wide receivers, a group that was the top priority in the 2008 draft yet had an unproductive season.

Let's look first at that draft. If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking, in the middle of the second round, then used the other two picks on a back-up center (there were many sitting there late in the second round) and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling, this team easily would have been in the playoffs. Royal had to learn just as difficult a system in Denver - another West Coast team - and was a game breaker in various ways. With another 900 receiving yards and seven or eight TDs, the Redskins' offense would have been much different. Santana Moss and Chris Cooley would have had more room in which to operate. The Redskins would have been dangerous in the red zone. Instead, they regressed.

Moss is no longer one of the elite receivers in the game. He is the best playmaker the Skins have, but without a dynamic second receiver to complement him, he's pretty easily taken away. His size is a detriment and unlike, say Carolina's Steve Smith, he isn't going to beat Cover-2 for deep plays with any sort of regularity. And with such a dearth of talent around him, that's generally what it takes for the Skins to have any offensive success. When opponents ignore him early, he reminds them that he can still play with a few big games. Then opponents double up on him and effectively shut him down. That's basically been the story of the past few seasons.

Similarly, Antwaan Randle El is a gadget/slot guy who is built to show up on third down. He is not a starting outside receiver. He does not have the size and speed to get downfield and make big plays. He's a guy who can hurt you on short slants in the 15-18 yard range, and with so few playmakers on the team, opponents are generally content to let him do that between the 20s a few times each game. Instead, they focus on Moss and Cooley. When he plays in the slot, he has a very difficult time beating press-man coverage. To try to make him something he is not, three full seasons into his tenure here, is baffling and when all three rookie pass catchers did not produce, that's what you were left with.

A year older and coming off a 2007 season in which he was the fifth or sixth receiver, James Thrash rose to become the third receiver primarily because the rookies were unable to get onto the field. No one in the organization, not even Thrash, expected that. You don't invest so heavily in receivers if you're thinking that a marginal 35-year-old is going to play more than they will. I do believe this was finally Thrash's last season here, however, and if I were the Skins, I'd be looking at a Bobby Engram in free agency (still thought they should have given D.J. Hackett a mere $1.5 million to sign here last year and upgraded that way).

Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic. With a swagger that was not backed up by his play, he did not do enough to get himself physically and mentally ready to play, and many in the organization wonder if he ever will. He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife and he never made any real strides toward becoming a regular part of the offense. He continually ran poor routes - often three yards or more too deep or too shallow - which is a massive difference in an intricate precision system. He didn't do nearly enough to earn the confidence of the quarterbacks. He was drafted to be the bigger, deep threat to complement Moss on the opposite side, replacing Brandon Lloyd, and ended up being similar to Lloyd in far too many ways. Thomas has already talked about the need to get away from football for a while, which, for as little as he played, is alarming. He needs to work his tail off all offseason to be ready to help this team.

Rookie Malcolm Kelly was supposed to be the bigger, strong slot guy to complement Randle El, move the chains and show up big in the red zone. He is a very good kid who is well-liked and worked hard, learning from his early mistake of being out of shape. He had a good start to camp and flashed well, but his knees will likely always be a problem. Many teams passed on him for that reason and the Redskins' medical team red flagged him as well. But Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato made many trips to personally watch him work out and were convinced he could play. Now they have to find a way to allow him to have a long career and stay on the field. Kelly was inactive much of the year and fell far behind after undergoing knee surgery. His knee had to be drained repeatedly during the season and he began working with a specialist in Toronto in midseason, which produced some decent results. In all likelihood, though, this will always be a week-to-week, month-to-month situation.

Even though wide receiver remains a position of great concern, I wouldn't expect much action at this spot. The Redskins have spent their money and used their draft picks here. You can't keep favoring one independent position - pass catcher - over all of the problems along both lines, which is where good teams are built. They should sign an Engram type and hope that the kids are all right in 2009. The rest of the group isn't getting any younger and with the offense in shambles late in the season, and Jason Campbell's development at a crossroads, there has to be a better, more balanced group around him.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 7, 2009; 1:37 PM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Comments

CONTEST REMINDER: Will take entries until the end of the week. Then I'll post them for review and anyone who wants to add/make changes can do it. Will close it about this time next week. So far, looks like about 70 entries. If you could put CONTEST ENTRY above the entry, it'll be easier to spot when I check for them

THE CONTEST IS:
Make a statement that will be kind of true one year from now (related to the Skins, of course). The most outrageous statement that is in the ballpark, wins. Up to 5 statements per person.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

To the dealer's six, I'm going to STICK on the existing plate of receivers.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

ugh

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

LOL....wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I agree with your comments regarding MWash. And that's the real dilemma for this team. The truly washed up veterans that are being paid way too much for their ability, like Jansen and Randle El, cannot be cut because of their cap hits. But the other semi-useful vets that can still bring it when they're healthy, like Griff, Springs, and Washington, can all provide serious immediate cap relief. Does the team bite the bullet for one more year, then release them all after next season with Jansen and ARE (it's not like we're adding a plethora of draft picks to the roster this year)? Or do we just say F it and cut them now, with the hopes of bringing in a few FAs?

That's my thought. If we want some serious free agents like a Jordan Gross or Julius Peppers, then cut those guys to provide the space. If not, and all we're getting are minimal-average FAs, plus the 4 draft picks, then might as well keep them on the roster for another year.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Hey JM220, relax, let me take this one for you. I will just use your template.

"They should sign an Engram type and hope that the kids are all right in 2009. The rest of the group isn't getting any younger and with the offense in shambles late in the season, and Jason Campbell's development at a crossroads, there has to be a better, more balanced group around him."

Yeah I am sure you will flip and blast the team for this just like you did with JT.

Signed JM220.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 7, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I kid, I kid.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 7, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

When I look at the WR shelf in Vinny's Fridge, I see a couple of NFL quality guys in Moss and ARE, and then a bunch of mystery meat. At least the expiration dates aren't coming up right away on this group like it is on the OL and LB group. But were the items on this shelf any good to begin with?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

"(still thought they should have given D.J. Hackett a mere $1.5 million to sign here last year and upgraded that way)"

psp, you must have been happy to read this.

hackett, who only played in 9 games, and caught 13 passes, WOULD NOT have upgraded the position.


Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

If the idea about Engram is to replace James Thrash, then why not just go back to the well on one of the preseason FA cuts: Horace Gant; Burl Toler; Miscellaneous; etc.

I just noticed on the Skins site that the Bears had signed Aroshomondu off the Skins practice squad. FOUR guys signed to other teams' active rosters from the Skins practice squad (Crummey, Octavien, Richardson, Aroshomondu) ... yet Justin Tryon managed to avoid the inactive list game after game.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal, big????

Posted by: jgr007 | January 7, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking..."

He's 5-10 184...just like all of our other receivers.

I'd like to know if any team had Royal rated higher than Thomas on their draft boards. Everything I recall reading prior to the draft had DT as the top rated receiver.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Yea, I thought they should have tried to upgrade with Hackett. It wouldn't have worked, but it wouldn't have affected the team either. Like Shaun Alexander, the team would have cut him with no consequences.

I am in favor of the Engram idea. He probably knows more about route-running in the west coast than anybody on our roster (probably more than Zorn). He would be like a player-coach for our youngsters. And he'd be a great fallback if Thomas/Kelly don't pan out next year.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Stop the bad man. I mean vinny by the way.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

OK, if the contest was about most outrageous and true media thing instead of Redskins thing -- we'd already have a winner:

Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent in Israel

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Sorry- repost from last thread:

TWISI- I didn't actually see the Utah/Bama game, but I heard Utah flawlessly executed a brilliant gameplan. Lots of no-huddle early to mess with defensive substitutions. I definitely think we need a somewhat athletic DT, as opposed to a huge clobbering glob that can barely move, but I thought this kid had lost about 30 lbs and has a motor. Maybe not.

Posted by: _D7_ | January 7, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Yeah um La Canfora at his best. Eddie Royal fits the Smurf mold much the same receiver as a Moss or Randle El, which is why they didn't take him...oops! Guess we all should just write anything even if it's not true and get a job with the Washington Post.

Posted by: Burg_gold_blood | January 7, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

This bears repeating...

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

research is your friend

Posted by: mlk2106 | January 7, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

If my aunt had a package she would be my uncle.

Posted by: Masonman | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Engram is another ARE type guy -- #3 WR? Do we really need another one of theose?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

greg, your review of wii makes me wanna get a video game since the first nintendo. blades of steel was aahaasome!

sween, what you talk? those six receivers on the roster are nate's receivers he LOVES the 2nd round picks.

wall-e did get good reviews but i hear, in passing from right wing radio talk show hosts that people (especially them) didn't like the whole subliminal message that if we don't take care of earth...

let's talk about portis situmation for a sec. everyone, all of us, agree that a player should not speak out like the way portis does. But here's where people split and that is they start comparing this situation to NYG and others with established coaches.

tommy was a head coach for a long time in the nfl and a coach for a long time in the nfl. his resume was so far beyond zorn's when tiki thing happened.

personally i don't believe portis thing would happen if zorny was even a good enough coach as mike singleterry let alone coughlin.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

There are many mistakes and contradictions in this post. "Eddie Royal is big", which he is not. "Moss's size is a detriment", which he's the same size at Eddie Royal, AND Steve Smith. "DJ Hackett would have been an upgrade", actually he would have been what he's always been which is injury prone.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Bobby Engram is about 55 years old. Signing him does nothing, and JLC would likely berate that as well when it happened.

If were gonna go after a WR, get a young guy like Moore or Henderson.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 7, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

It has to be Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Randle El plus one next season... right?

Thrash goes -- one of the handful of "super smart/guts out/great effort/super locker room/hard worker/no longer capable of playing pro football at a particularly high level" dudes we've gotta part ways with this offseason) -- and we bring in some UFAs to catch a bunch of balls from Colt this offseason and keep the best one...

This position is all about the development of Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas... we've made our WR bed, we have to lie in it, or whatever cliche fits here...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 7, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

can someone please get Art Monk to talk to these WR's every day. Ask thomas and kelly what they are doing partying all the time, ask moss what the deal with the polish thing was. The only one who is not a head case is ARE and I think that was due to the fact that he played QB also not just WR.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

""If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

LOL....wow...." BeantownGreg

Exactly my thoughts when I read that. It's the same story with Desean Jackson. Both guys had great years for rookie WR and the Skins could have had either of them. However, neither of those guys were what they needed. Plus, as I'm sure we will read later in the week, the O-Line and QB were the reasons that the WR didn't have better years. Who is to say that Royal would have had those types of numbers in this offense? Jay Cutler threw the ball 616 times this year. Campbell only 506 times. That's 60 more completions that could have been spread around to the WR corps.

Posted by: sullipa8 | January 7, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking,"

you are an absolute moron JLC! Royal is well under 200 lbs and well under 6-foot. Do you ever check any facts before spewing this BS on your blog??

Posted by: Chrisphilippsen | January 7, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Engram is another ARE type guy -- #3 WR? Do we really need another one of theose?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Our problem is we have a 1.5 , 3 , 4.5 , 4.8 , 5 right now. And are going to lose the 4.5 guy.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal, big????

Posted by: jgr007 | January 7, 2009 2:00 PM

Two degrees of separation from within the movie "Pulp Fiction."

Q. You know what they call a Quarter Pounder with cheese in France?

A. A Royale with cheese.

Degrees of separation ... Quarter Pounder is top selling burger at Burger King ... Big Mac is top selling burger at McDonalds ... Big Mac has the word "big" in it ... Eddie Royal's last name is in the middle of "Royale".

QED

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

dealer, I've been catching up on a bunch of solid movies via Netflix, and "Wall-E" was awesome. I loved it. I'm such an old softie I had tears streaming down my cheeks at the end... just clobbered me. Good stuff.

Also awesome: "In Bruges" (tough ending, but incredibly funny throughout), "Dark Knight", "Man on Wire," "Tropic Thunder"... yeah yeah whatever, I've got a serious time lag on my pop culture intake, but I catch up eventually...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 7, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

did jasno actually question not taking eddie royal? that's strange...this sorta analysis is what gets him in trouble. cuz we all know what the headline would've been from him "skins take another shrimp receiver"...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

sween, what you talk? those six receivers on the roster are nate's receivers he LOVES the 2nd round picks.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:05 PM

Sorry for the confusion. In Blackjack, when the (card) dealer shows a five or a six, you have pretty good odds to win and except maybe on a soft hand (i.e., you have an ace), its usually safe to stick on your two cards because the (card) dealer is likely to bust.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Let's try it this way, I think it reads a little better:

"...Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the at-least-moderately-effective rookie receiver they were seeking..."

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 7, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

"You can't keep favoring one independent position - pass catcher - over all of the problems..."

HEY! Detroit did it and they ended up with GREAT receivers in Roy Williams (then a bunch of picks for him) and Calvin Johnson. ;-)

Posted by: charley42 | January 7, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

not even mentioning that both Jackson, and Royal were injury free all year, and stepped right into starting lineups.

Not the same with DT, and MK....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal... in the middle of the second round, then used the other two picks on a back-up center...and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling, this team easily would have been in the playoffs."

Merling was taken before any of the skins 3 picks.

If we hadn't traded back, we could have taken him at 21 but we wouldn't have those extra picks in the 2nd round to draft the backup center and Eddie Royal.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Did Devin Thomas show signs of these problems in college? Was he known as a naturally gifted, no work needed, prima-donna, partier-type guy?

Posted by: _D7_ | January 7, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

nate, haven't heard of bruges or man on wire...will be on the lookout for 'em. you liked tropic thunder? i haven't seen it...kinda takes a lot for me to watch that dude's movies....ben stiller...

ohh forgetting sarah marshall was good...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

did jasno actually question not taking eddie royal? that's strange...this sorta analysis is what gets him in trouble. cuz we all know what the headline would've been from him "skins take another shrimp receiver"...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:13 PM

Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

We click on a story about "positional analysis" and we get "2008 Draft in Review". And to top it all off, the Draft Analysis is WRONG! Stick to hockey and soccer Jason. The Post -- and its readers -- SOO need an NFL reporter in Redskin Park.

Posted by: outsider6 | January 7, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

sween, dealer gets mixed up... I can only imagine bouncing between the "card dealer" and "taxi driver" personae gets complicated...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 7, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Wow, OK. The first couple of paragraphs of this post is JLa at his incompetent best. After that, however, is spot on.

Eddie Royal is NOT a "big" receiver at 5'10''/180. And JLa's extrapolation for how well this offense whould have been if we had JUST picked Eddie Royal is the kind of couch-potato talk I would expect from a fantasy football donkey who thinks someone's season stats are just interchangeable from team to team.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "big-time" receiver, but Moss is still a bonafide #1 WR in this game. He has great hands, great speed, runs all the routes well (including going into the middle), and he's a big-play threat everytime he touches the ball whether it's a bubble screen or a deep route. He returns punts, and he has single-handedly won games for this team this year. He went over 1000 yards on this anemic run-first offense despite defenses game-planning for him. The only WR that can consistently beat double teams all the time is Randy Moss, so let's keep things in perspective.

I agree 100% with the Randle El, Thrash, Thomas and Kelly analyses.

JLa said that we would benefit from an "engram" type receiver in 2009. The actual real-life Bobby Engram is an FA. Is there any "Insider" scoop on whether we're taking a serious look at him?

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking

I don't have his stats, but I went to VT and saw plenty of Eddie Royal in college. Unless he grew a couple inches and put on about 40 lbs, I wouldn't really consider him a "big target" reciever. I think he is more of the Santana Moss/ARE quick small reciever.

Posted by: HokiePaul | January 7, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Did Devin Thomas show signs of these problems in college? Was he known as a naturally gifted, no work needed, prima-donna, partier-type guy?

Posted by: _D7_ | January 7, 2009 2:16 PM

Devin Thomas (Michigan State, woo hoo!) was a one year wonder. Two years in JUCO, then transferring to State for his junior year. He excelled and declared himself eligible for the draft as a junior.

To answer your question, no one knows.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Six degrees of Tropic Thunder:
Danny McBride, the guy who played Cody the explosives guy was on my Pee Wee soccer team when we were 9.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Antonio Bryant who played for the Bus this year a FA. He'd be worth a look.

Posted by: TWISI | January 7, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Royal, besides being "not big", played on the #2 offense in the league, AND opposite to a 6'4" possession WR that had 104 catches with 6 TD's.

I think that *may* have had something to do with it. The guy they really needed was Antonio Bryant in Tampa Bay (83 rec 15.0 ypc, 7 TD).

The jury is out on Kelley and Thomas. Marshall (the possession receiver above) only had 20 catches is rookie year in Denver. We'll see if either Thomas or Kelley has what it takes next year.

The Redskins rolled the bones on WR last year, and the very LAST thing they need to do is try again this year. Too many other pressing needs.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

nate, sween, no picking on the slow guy!!! or i'll play the race card.

finally got that...dang it sween why you gotta be so tangental!

Posted by: dealer1 | January 7, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

At times I can be a bandwagon jumper, so I'll continue the trend and copy and paste:

"Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking,"

More hard hitting analysis from La Canfora...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

I gather Thomas wouldn't talk to JLC after all the negative comments. He simply said he was going on a vacation after the season ended -- not that he planned to loaf around for the whole off-season...

Posted by: siris | January 7, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Sween- Ahh, figures.

In Bruges is great. Some nice, dark hilarity.

Posted by: _D7_ | January 7, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Engram is another ARE type guy -- #3 WR? Do we really need another one of theose?

Posted by: zcezcest1

-----

Contrary to Randle El, Engram put up a 90+ catch season not too long ago.

And even if he is just another ARE right now, I'd gladly take another 50 receptions and 600 yards as a safety valve. We're not talking about a $20 million contract. He'll probably go for $1-2 per year at this point. And having Engram shouldn't prevent Kelly/Thomas from breaking out if they improved enough to become the #2.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

If Bryant is available they should take make a serious run at him to push the sophomore WR's

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

dpc2003 - Royal had 90 receptions. Dude can run routes, unlike our current crop of now 1-year veterans.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Jasno maybe you were thinking of Robert Royal... Too bad he couldn't catch.

Posted by: seriesoftubescleaner | January 7, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm not clear. Is Eddie Royal a small-ish type guy, or big?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 7, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Fact: There were zero "Big" wide receivers in the 2008 draft class ready to make a big contribution in the 2008 season.

Vinny bypassed the talented small guys like Eddie Royal and Desean Jackson and went for the big guys with potential. He wanted to trade for Chad Johnson - who had a chance to make an impact in '08, but that did not happen.

Hopefully D Thomas or M Kelly will have a strong softmore year. Why JLC is so down on the rookie WRs, I can't understand. Only JLC expects 2nd round picks to become #1 WRs as rookies. No one else was expecting that.

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 7, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Engram is another ARE type guy -- #3 WR? Do we really need another one of theose?

Posted by: zcezcest1

Engram has been playing in this version of the WCO for 6 years. At age 36, he'd be a pretty cheap FA signing, a great mentor for the young WRs, and probably more productive than any of the other WRs not named Santana Moss.

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

What's up with our cap space, I really think fundamentally, as well as drafting the lines, we need to start to chip away at our cap defecit if we ever want to get better as an organization.

Posted by: BMACattack | January 7, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

What's up with our cap space, I really think fundamentally, as well as drafting the lines, we need to start to chip away at our cap defecit if we ever want to get better as an organization.

Posted by: BMACattack | January 7, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Right now we are at about a $1.2 trillion deficit...ooops! Sorry, different Washington organization...

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

psps23 -- yeah, and an astonishing (low) 3.4 YAC. Moss had 5.5, believe it or not.

I didn't see many Denver games, but suspect that they faced a lot of zone and he's got a talent for finding holes in said defense. Or, Shanahan simply told him to run 5 yards and turn around, Cutler will hit you if you're open.

Royal played in a very prolific offense.

Bryant played in an average offense and had more yards on fewer catches, so I think that IF the Redskins had gotten Bryant as a FA, they would have been better off than having Royal as a rookie. Just my opinion.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Jason, you really should retract this post. Write a new one on the WRs without invoking Eddie Royal. I will help with an outline:

Skins receivers are too small

They drafted big receivers in 2008, but that was too late to make an impact for the 2008 season

Skins should consider signing a veteran big receiver to push the kids until / unless one emerges

Acknowledge that Cerrato identified the area of need (receivers too small) and drafted accordingly -

But now we must simply wait to see if these guys pan out.

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 7, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Signed JM220.....

Posted by: dlhaze1

LOL

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 7, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The WR catching and QB passing performance was degraded by injuries to the offensive line and rookie wide outs. JLC didn't mention injures at all-- however the OL could not pass protect for more than 2 seconds, which basically made 10+ yd throws impossible. The 1st year coaching may also have been a factor, since it must have been difficult to teach a new offense to the starters and bring the injured rookies along at slower pace.

The Skins have to find a better #2 WR next year. They have options: a trade, Thomas, Kelly, or a free agent. They should relegate ARE to third down slot receiver, reverses, and gadget plays. I don't see them spending another draft pick on a WR this year.

I hope they replace Thrash with another special team specialist or a backup FB. They should also replace ARE on punt returns.

Posted by: siris | January 7, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

OK, I read this blog all the time and don't comment much. But this post really demonstrates most of the reasons people typically give for disliking JLC.

Inaccurate information:
"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking ..."

-Eddie Royal is not a big reciever

Biased information:
"Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic." ... "He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife ... "

-He could be surly? Who cares! This sounds like Jason is biased because he tried to talk to Thomas once and got the cold shoulder. And while he clearly had a less than expected season as a reciever, I believe I saw several quotes from coaches who liked his effort/attitude on special teams. Despite Thomas having a better (although still poor) season than his fellow rookie Kelly, Jason's bias appears to favor the "very good kid" Kelly over Thomas.

Tendency to over state the obvious:
"Antwaan Randle El is a gadget/slot guy who is built to show up on third down."

And occasionally says something that makes sense:

"James Thrash rose to become the third receiver primarily because the rookies were unable to get onto the field. No one in the organization, not even Thrash, expected that. You don't invest so heavily in receivers if you're thinking that a marginal 35-year-old is going to play more than they will."


Posted by: HokiePaul | January 7, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic"

Not trying to call someone out on this, but is there anyone who can recall anything about this coming up during the year??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

If La canfora was confusing Eddie Royal with Robert Royal, then he needs to resign TODAY.

I know that you guys must be joking about his alleged confusion, Robert Royal did play here a few years back, and he wasn't a WR, he was a TE who did "nathan" during his time here.

Except in 2004, he had a Mike sellars type year. 8 catches, 4 TDs.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Count me as someone who does NOT want to see Antonio Bryant on this roster.

1 year of good production does not outweigh a career of attitude problems that saw him get shipped around to 4-5 teams.

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

our problems lie in one of the last lines of this comumn. Snyder and Cerrato made many trips to personally watch him work out.... I'm sorry, Dan Snyder one of our talent evaluators? It's bad enough we have Vinny, but to ALSO have Dapper Dan scout as well? If I were a scout for the 'Skins, I'd run away so far, so fast... I used to think the triumverate of Dan/Vinny/Joe was a loser. Joe was the smart one and got out. We will continue to LOSE and be LOSERS until Vinny leaves, and Dan leaves his hands off the operation. (Meaning we will always be losers)

Posted by: 1of9000 | January 7, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Boosh there P1Funk.

Skins are 2.x mill over the cap right now. Not sure where we are in dead cap

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Another absurd post here by JLa. The Royal comment actually made me laugh so that is a positive sign. I wish someone would compose a list of WRs who struggled their rookie year and came on real strong their 2nd year. Right off the bat, look at Ted Ginn. Media destroyed Miami for this pick last year. He looked great the last half of this year. Marshall is another great example. More important for the skins next season: improved line or improved beat writer?

Posted by: Houligan26 | January 7, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Fact: There were zero "Big" wide receivers in the 2008 draft class ready to make a big contribution in the 2008 season.

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 7, 2009 2:31 PM

There were, however, several defensive linemen ready to contribute.

Also, am I misremembering about Antonio Bryant? Wasn't he on the FA WR carousel with Hackett last season too?

siris, the quote from Devin Thomas was about "getting away from football" ... which is Portis' line, which Portis also used to defend Sean Taylor's unreturned offseason calls to Joe Gibbs. Taylor was NOT coming off his rookie season at the time.

Devin Thomas was a gamble, no question. One season in the grownup division of the NCAA. Three years out of high school. In high school, I knew guys who got football scholarships ... and I knew guys who went to junior college to play football. Unless you are outstanding in high school, you need to be in at least the "B" range for grades to get scholarship rides. Lower than that, you go to JUCO. The yellow lights on Thomas should have (maybe were) maturity and intelligence. Sounds like he needs to get away from football for a little while.

Kelly was a different kind of gamble. Knees are knees. I remember that peeps up here (esp. talent evaluator and Greg) jumping all over Kelly's backside for blaming his slow 40 times at Oklahoma State's Pro Day on the school rather than his performance. I'm guessing the FO waved off the slow times and attributed to a bad knee ... so that the gamble is on the success of Dr. Andrews' bionic surgery to fix that.

Still, I'm sitting at this table with 19 in my hand, against the dealer's seven. I'm probably going to lose, but I'm not going to get up and leave the table.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic"

Not trying to call someone out on this, but is there anyone who can recall anything about this coming up during the year??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Zorn ripped both Kelly and Thomas pretty good early on in the season. I can't imagine coaches were too fired up to hear about Thomas's offseason perspective, especially when Malcolm Kelly plans to live in the area and hit the jugs machine at the practice facility every day.

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Are we in that bad of shape that we need to pick up Bobby Engram? Really? I don't think so. I think an off season for the young guns is going to be huge for them (not saying they'll catch 50 passes next season....). I couldn't believe Thomas had 15 catches last season, it seemed to me more like five.

If Jasno is right and Thrash is out then let someone have the opportunity to step up. Throw DT into the 2WR spot. I don't care if Campbell never throws the ball his way. And what about Horace Gant? Dude is at least healthy and can catch. Assuming all WR on roster are healthy.....and know their routes.

My GM WR Corp 09 -
Moss, DT, Kelly, ARE, Gant

No need to spend on any WR FA that is over 30. O god, let alone trade away multiple first round picks for Ocho Cinco.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I agree with your comments regarding MWash. And that's the real dilemma for this team. The truly washed up veterans that are being paid way too much for their ability, like Jansen and Randle El, cannot be cut because of their cap hits. But the other semi-useful vets that can still bring it when they're healthy, like Griff, Springs, and Washington, can all provide serious immediate cap relief. Does the team bite the bullet for one more year, then release them all after next season with Jansen and ARE (it's not like we're adding a plethora of draft picks to the roster this year)? Or do we just say F it and cut them now, with the hopes of bringing in a few FAs?

Posted by: psps23

Well said

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Maybe they can package Devin Thomas along with Carlos Rogers to get a pick or two more ... if they go that route. Still think they should stick with Rogers but as we see ...

Snidely Owl and the Vinnster know all.

Its too bad about Malcom Kelly. He sounds like a real find if it weren't for the wheels.

As Jason suggests, with only 4 picks in the draft you are better off going for offensive linemen all the way down the line.

I still think they could split Cooley out more if Fred Davis shows up next year. I suspect this will be their best bet with Malcom Kelly and Randle El coming in for multiple wide receiver sets.

As you can see from the "attitude" most wide receivers seem to take once they are "paid" guaranteed bonuses, it just might pay to draft the right running back and convert him. Instead of a quarterback like Randle El.

Posted by: periculum | January 7, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Malcolm Kelly plans to live in the area and hit the jugs machine at the practice facility every day"

p1, I didn't hear this, where did you get this information from?


Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Hilarious to read JLa's post from draft day. Called Thomas "good value" and noted Kelly as the one with possible attitude. Weak.

Posted by: AdamCr | January 7, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The sad thing about the receiving corp is that the FO not only made poor selections and over drafted--they could've selected Philip Merling instead of Thomas, y'all--waiting another year would've put them in position to select one of two guys who are better than the rookies they got

Mohommad Mossaquoi-UGA
Terry Robiskie, Jr.- Ohio State

Like the Brandon Lloyd trade, the Randle El acquisition was a massive failure. He's a gadget guy for two coaches--Gibbs/Zorn--who think a trick play is what happens when you try to hook up with a pole dancer.

Both Randle El and Thrash should be sent down the BWI on skateboards.

Given what we got, credit does go for the Fred Davis pick. Let's go two tight-ends next year.

Run the ball to Davis' side, throw the ball to Cooley to the other.

Get Darren Sproles to be the gadget guy, Portis back-up...that is if the Chargers are dumb enough to let him slip out of Orange County on The Danny's heliocopter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 7, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

My gut tells me Harrison may be let go after this Philly problem. And since we seem to have no issue with peoples character any more...

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking, in the middle of the second round, then used the other two picks on a back-up center (there were many sitting there late in the second round) and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling, this team easily would have been in the playoffs."
-jasno

I think this wins all contests past, present and future for silliest comments of all time.

It's hyperbole like this that causes some to question Jasno's competency as a reporter and analyst.

Just because Eddie Royal fit in in Denver doesn't mean the skins would have made the playoffs if they'd had him or Merling or a back-up center, just like the team didn't unravel when they cut Leigh Torrence.

Devin Thomas wasn't just way up the skins draft board, btw.

And as to the long term value of the '08 draft; I've said before and will repeat, it looks terrible now and may wel end being that given the history of danny and vinny. But let's get real about knowing what the real value of any draft pick was in the first year. It's an exercise in mental self-gratification.

Posted by: LarryBud | January 7, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

draft picks are mysteries. The real issue is they picked 10 guys last year and most of them are still mysteries.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

"Malcolm Kelly plans to live in the area and hit the jugs machine at the practice facility every day"

p1, I didn't hear this, where did you get this information from?


Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

See the last couple paragraphs

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/kelly_a_likely_inactive_again.html

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

If they were going to take Merling, they would have had do do it at 21. He was gone by the time they picked in the 2nd.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

++++ Get Darren Sproles to be the gadget guy, Portis back-up...that is if the Chargers are dumb enough to let him slip out of Orange County on The Danny's heliocopter.

Posted by: MistaMoe ++++

Ummmm, San Diego is in San Diego County, not Orange County. Disneyland is in Orange County

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Kelly staying in the area was a post and in an article the week prior to the San Fran game.

The whole point on the Hackett and the Bryant Johnson conversation isn't that they were the greatest players ever and the surefire answer, but they were cheap, they were establish guys who know how to run a pattern properly, in Hacket's case already knew the system, and wouldn't have cost you draft picks that could be used on the aging injury prone lines.

Additionally, as BTgreg and everyone else points out, draft picks in general and receiver in particular often take time to develop, signing one decent vet FA would have given a drafted receiver time to adjust, instead we had ARE and Thrash again, and that's pathetic.

I still have no problem with the drafting of a receiver, but completely ignoring cheap upgrade options to fill out that position, and the drafting of TWO made no sense.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Not too mention the sleepy Davis pick....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

p1, thanks, good to know....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I had not considered the idea of trading players for players. If we could get a OL and DL guy for Los, then you have me listening.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"Not trying to call someone out on this, but is there anyone who can recall anything about this coming up during the year??

Posted by: BeantownGreg |"

honestly, not once. I seem to recall the exact opposite.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

periculum

I'd move Rogers to get 2nd round pick, high or low.

The Skins need picks. If a d-end goes at pick 13, I'd like to be in the position the get the right tackle I want in the 2nd round.

What would the Skins have to give up to flip spots from the 3rd round to get into the 2nd with another team?

With only four picks, each guy has to be somebody who can play asap. We're already feeding pablum to two wideouts who didn't think to train and workout before coming to the NFL.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 7, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

This post is really bad. While most of it is conceptually on point, the details and off hand analysis is sloppy at best.

Dealer, are you from the 5th dimension...?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Press conference underway where STAFFORD AND KNOWSHON will announce their decisions!!!


I bet they both leave!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

they have left


FROWN

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Ted Ginn? How'd he do against Baltimore?

Gruden wants to re-sign Bryant according the Tampa papers. So he's willing to take on a attitude problem if Bryant has one.

Here's another late bloomer for the mill: Wes Welker. 0 catches rookie year, went to Miami (cut?) 0 catches as a return man, 29, then 67. So over his first 4 years in the league, he has 96 total catches. Which he promptly exceeds his 5th year going to NWE.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Jasno is in his off season. Hardest working guy in America. Cut him some slack, it takes 30 seconds to google Eddie Royal to see what kind of WR he is.

Antonio Bryant is a classic example of a guy playing for a contract. He has been trouble everywhere else before this year.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | January 7, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Truth,
Seriously, not trying to bust your balls but. You know that you are the only UGA fan up here dont you? If you want to say thy are going to the draft thats cool but you could do it in 1 post not 4 or whatev.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal - 5'10 - 182lbs. How does that fit the big target they were seeking?

In no way do I support Vinny, but if I were writing this post I would've at least included the traditional revisionist history disclaimer. I don't know anyone who had Royal ranked ahead of Devin Thomas - plus he's tiny like our guys. He was great for Denver with monster Brandon Marshall lined up across from him.

Posted by: bmd5 | January 7, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Davis started to play well by the end of the season -- after Yoder was injured. I thought he looked pretty good on offense, but I didn't watch close enough to evaluate his special teams play and blocking. Obviously he was not as good at blocking as Yoder and the Skins required a blocking TE to assist Jansen.

Posted by: siris | January 7, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

This article...is the BOTCH of all BOTCHES...

Eddie Royal?

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds. 184 pounds when soaking wet.

Love VT...Love VT players...but the Source Meter owns you HARD on this one JLC...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | January 7, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis is a sleeper pick...


OH!

Posted by: jmicrodoc | January 7, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I'd move Rogers to get 2nd round pick, high or low.

The Skins need picks. If a d-end goes at pick 13, I'd like to be in the position the get the right tackle I want in the 2nd round.

UGGHGHGHGGH

If you trade Carlos you immediately create another need because even if you keep Springs he'll only play 5 or 6 games and Smoot is not a starter anymore. So trading Carlos, a young starter at the most important position on this defense and one of the most important in the league, a guy you took at #9 overall, you have to replace him with a FA or a draft pick and there is no way you get value for him, that's not good management.....so of course we'll do it.....but what the heck is wrong with having Rogers and Hall as your starting corners for 5 years? There are quality free agents available this year more so than last year, and Vinny hasn't proven to be reliable in drafting yet either....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Why is winnig in DC so difficult. I mean winning on all levels like (Draft, FA, hirings, firings) I mean we can make splashes in FA, but they never pan out. We can choose to let someone go, and the person flurishes for the next team while we suffer in the position. We hire coaches, other teams hire coaches, they win, we loose. We make all kinds of excuses, have all the money a franchise can have but CANNOT GET ANY OF THIS RIGHT. We will be lucky to WIN with Dan Snyder as the Owner. Not impossible to do but we will need luck.

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | January 7, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

OKAY!!! We get it, JLC misspoke but i think we all get the point "Kid&Play(Thomas and Kelly)were huge dissapointments(understatement of the season)Someone or Somebody in the scouting department dropped the ball but when they couldn't get through the physical conditioning portion of training camp that was a huge red flag i mean Thomas had to know this is not Mich.St and should have known what was required of him and then they didn't even know the play's, rookie's should have Q&A every week during the season even after training camp and i'm pretty sure they did but still they had trouble adjusting next year will tell the story whether or not they take the NFL seriously.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 7, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

LOL....wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

You forget! When you're 5 ft 2 like the esteemed writer is, that is big and tall!!

Posted by: Lacantwrite | January 7, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Is there ever any substance to these posts? If only you had sources within the building you could give us juice on whether Jason Taylor will be back, what Zorn would really like to see with our WR situation etc.

Instead you write obtuse posts that provide nothing that any informed fan can't dispense. Learn how to come up with interesting angles for this beat or move on please.

Posted by: bmd5 | January 7, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Why draft an Ohio State receiver?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

suck it Alex!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I am against trading Carlos Rogers. I would try to resign him as quickly as possible.

But that I guess is up to Snidely Owl and the Vinnster. Thanks to poor cap management on their part there may not be a way to keep both Hall and Carlos plus Springs. Many would say get rid of Springs then and that may yet happen. But Springs, like Griff, and MWash are major components in the chemistry that makes this defense what it is. It may be a disaster to get rid of them all.

Instead we have dead cap plus guys like Smoot and ARE to weight it down.

Posted by: periculum | January 7, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Why draft an Ohio State receiver?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Because they can block for the run game.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

1 year of good production does not outweigh a career of attitude problems that saw him get shipped around to 4-5 teams.

Posted by: p1funk | January 7, 2009 2:42 PM

Didn't know if he had "attitude problem" or not but the DPOY, James Harrison, was cut from FOUR different teams before signing wit the Steelers.

It doesn't matter where you've been, it's where you're going.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Just saying dude, people will give you less crap if you consolidate your UGA stuff. I learned to do it with my crap on a new stadium and spring leagues.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I keep seeing trade/draft scenarios suggesting that we could get a 2nd round pick for Carlos Rogers.

I don't really understand the thinking here. Sure, the Raiders gave up a 2nd for DeAngelo Hall but they got ripped at the time for giving up too much (and of course again when he was released). And this hamsters group (and the coaches) seems to have a strong belief that Hall is significantly better than Rogers. I think when you talk about 3rd or 4th cornerbacks recent history would suggest something like a 4th rounder. I guess I could believe 3rd round, but can anyone set me right on why Rogers would be worth a 2? Just wondering thanks

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

red, Bryant threw a shirt in Parcells face, and has had other issues through his career. He's probably not what you want to bring in with impressionable young players...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

wow,
Roto world already takeing this as "Skins to go after Engram"

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=538&line=137459&spln=1

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Why draft an Ohio State receiver?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:24 PM

I dunno, Galloway, Holmes, Ginn Jr., Boston (Before the super size extra value meals and 'roids), they may be others, but the aforementioned names have done well in this league.

Someone commented on Ginn Jr.'s performance against the Ravens - well his QB has a freakin' 99 cent water pistol for an arm, and they were playing the Ravens, with that defense. THAT may have some reason why Ginn was a non-factor.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Nate, I assume that by "Man on Wire" you meant "Man on Fire." Toldja it was good.

Posted by: freakzilla | January 7, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

There is no way we get a second for Los, the same reason they don't want him here is on film and everyone in the league knows it, he's decent in coverage, good in run support, has terrible hands and is susceptible to the double move. Oh yeah, and he's only one year removed from major knee surgery.

And!
Courtland Finigan
Nhamdi Hoosyourmama
Chris Gamble
Kelvin Hayden
Corey Ivy
Bryant McFadden
R.W. McQuarters
Dunta Robinson

are all set to be UFA's this offseason. Sure some will resign, but a few will hit the market, there's no way a team gives above a 3rd and more likely nothing above a 4th for Rogers.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse


Skins offense averaged 16.6
Skins defense averaged 18.5

Our Kicker missed 10 FG's more than any starter in the league witch averages out to 1.87 points a game

16.6+ 1.87= 18.47

Not saying we would have any more wins but just saying.


Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Just saying dude, people will give you less crap if you consolidate your UGA stuff. I learned to do it with my crap on a new stadium and spring leagues.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:28 PM

NO, people would give him less crap, if were to fold tents, and just bounce!!!

I have never wanted someone to stop posting, but G-D, that boy is annoying.

Have you ever had an uncle with stank feet and ate all the cereal stay with you for an extended period of time?

Stank feet uncle = poster @ 3:26 PM

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

If having problems with Parcells is indicative of an attitude, then Phil Simms has an attitude.

I don't know the guy, but just because guys bounce around is no knock on them (see Wes Welket, etc.)

Talking this much about WR is kinda pointless. Unless JC has time to throw the ball, you could have Randy Moss out there and he'd look bad -- like he did his last year in Oakland.

The Redskins need O-line.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

No way 'Los Rogers is worth a 2nd round pick.

I know people up here have his initials tattooed on their bodies, but like the man said he's worth a 4th or 5th and that's it.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal's stature aside, the joke is always on us, the fans.

oh_hell,
i mean: hail.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Forget the receivers that's at least 2 games right there Jasno!? What gives?

"Our Kicker missed 10 FG's more than any starter in the league witch averages out to 1.87 points a game

16.6+ 1.87= 18.47

Not saying we would have any more wins but just saying."


Posted by: periculum | January 7, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

dcp, Simms never threw a shirt in parcells face, during a practice, getting him bounced from practice.

Bryant has played for Dallas, TB, SF, and was out of football for a year.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

The reason we don't win in DC is b/c we sign players to huge contracts when they haven't even played a down for us and we don't reward in house players for working hard and having solid years, i.e. Antonio Pierce/Ryan Clark. Players look at the Skins as a big paycheck and when they get it they aren't hungry anymore. In order to win, you must build through the draft by developing depth and locking up your young studs before they get close to FA and you fill in gaps with young FA at not ridiculous prices. This has never been the case under Snyder and won't change as long as he is involved in personnel along with his raquet ball partner.

Posted by: jayandcat | January 7, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

guess I could believe 3rd round, but can anyone set me right on why Rogers would be worth a 2? Just wondering thanks

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 3:30 PM

If the skins flip flop for example with the Lions which would be #13 for #20 and include Carlos to get the Lions #33 it would be on the trade charts getting a low 2nd round pick for Carlos.

Posted by: TWISI | January 7, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Nhamdi Hoosyourmama? Bro of TJ Hoosyourmama?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 7, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

J La give me a break dude. I read these things all the time and have no idea why. You are the most anti-skins person I have ever read. I've got a great idea...how about for this year's draft when the Skins pick comes up you suggest who they should pick. Then we'll compare who you would have picked and who the Skins actually pick and see how their season's end up. That way we can at least say what an idiot you are when the people who you would have choosen BUST and you have no room to bash every single move the Skins make. Is it me or you were in favor of the Taylor trade because we had no freakin' choice and needed someone. And as much as you always bash us for being old you want to bring a WR with a freakin' walker in Ingram...dude your really stretching for something to write!

Posted by: mamarsha34 | January 7, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Is there ever any substance to these posts? If only you had sources within the building you could give us juice on whether Jason Taylor will be back, what Zorn would really like to see with our WR situation etc.
Posted by: bmd5 | January 7, 2009 3:23 PM
You forgot to add "Like we will be discussing on Redskins Nation, at 6:00 pm on Comcast..........I'm Larry Michael; see you at 6".

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 7, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

True, to talk about WRs OR O line is pointless at this place in time.

If JC doesn't have a line to give him time then yes, talking about WRs is irrelevant.

BUT

If you have Vinny Cerrato pulling the trigger on draft day, then talking about any prospects at all is also irrelevant.

If there isn't a competent GM is run things then, good O-linemen will not be drafted, and JC won't have time to throw to the WRs.

It's a vicious cycle.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

If the skins flip flop for example with the Lions which would be #13 for #20 and include Carlos to get the Lions #33 it would be on the trade charts getting a low 2nd round pick for Carlos.

Posted by: TWISI | January 7, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Why would the lions want Carlos? They are years away from being good and need to build through the draft, not get a corner who can't catch, and has a bad knee.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Ted Ginn didn't do all that well last 4 games of the year, either, 9 catches total, although he did get his lone TD of the season. At this point I don't think you can make a case the guy's a starter on most teams.

Galloway is a solid pro with an unspectacular career that never lived up to the hype of being taken 8th overall in 95. Couple great years in Seattle, one good one in TB. Boston is out of the league.

Holmes is doing pretty well, and he was a first-round pick with 50+ catches his rookie year.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

The problem with making these suggestions is that we truly don't know how these decisions will effect the team, chemistry, the Cap, etc... I for one don't belive the Skins have the correct Football mind to build a perennial winner, so, what they do is try and win it all with a FA here and a draft pick there to fill needs that never PAN out. With this being said the Skins need to understand that the will not win next year or perhaps the year after because of the CAP hell they are in (they just can't maneuver properly to make the right moves to build a winner). I think they should make subtle changes for the better of the team and try and let some of these problems like cap hits fall by the way side. Maybe in 2 years we can sttart seeing the light. I truly think that we are a mess of a franchise and we really need to find one good thing (and I mean one) and bulid around it.

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | January 7, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Well I never get so bent out on guys Red, there was only one guy on this blog who truly got under my skin was a guy who posted as Barno who constantly was posting raciest stuff on the blog. Though he was not our current Barno according to him.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

If you have Vinny Cerrato pulling the trigger on draft day, then talking about any prospects at all is also irrelevant.
If there isn't a competent GM is run things then, good O-linemen will not be drafted, and JC won't have time to throw to the WRs.
It's a vicious cycle.
Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:51 PM

That is my main argument against the theoretical Carlos Rogers trade......unless you trade him straight up for another quality starter, whose contract won't be renegotiated into the gazillions upon coming to the Skins.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

If the Lions and Rams gave us all there picks for our 6th rounder and Carlos, then technically on the draft chart, it would be like we got 13 picks for Rogers.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

You guys are all wrong, Eddie Royal is six-five and 235 with a forty inch vertical leap.

At least he is in Jason LaCanfora's fertile imagination. And Philip Merling would have lost thirty pounds and become an outside speed rusher with more than that single sack he had with Miami. And the Skins would have picked up a center too, who probably would have become the next Jim Otto.

beantowngreg wrote:
Simms never threw a shirt in parcells face, during a practice..."

Bet he really, really wanted to, though.

Most players have. That's because Parcells, in addition to being a terrific coach and GM, is absolutely the best at blaming the players for his own mistakes.

By the way, how come Vinny Cerrato didn't draft Matt Ryan, Gaines Adams, Darren McFarland, Chris Long, and Glenn Dorsey this last draft? A good GM would have, you betcha.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

They could split him, he could play morning games on EST time then take his superman flying cape and play late games in Central time......that's about as realistic as anybody trading anything close to a 2nd for Carlos Rogers.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

True, to talk about WRs OR O line is pointless at this place in time.

If JC doesn't have a line to give him time then yes, talking about WRs is irrelevant.

BUT

If you have Vinny Cerrato pulling the trigger on draft day, then talking about any prospects at all is also irrelevant.

If there isn't a competent GM is run things then, good O-linemen will not be drafted, and JC won't have time to throw to the WRs.

It's a vicious cycle.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Preface my post with the above statement....

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | January 7, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

LOL... just because someone doesn't drink the JLC flavor-aid, he's "Larry Michael".

For those who aren't familiar, flavor-aid is knock off version of kool-aid - which is EXACTLY what JLC is a knock off version of a real beat reporter.

So please, if not for us, then for the children, stop with this "Redskins by Position" nonsense. You're a reporter not an analyst.

Bread, La Canfora: keep it simple

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, hear what you say about Bryant but Gruden wants to re-sign the guy.

WR attitude seems like a pandemic. There are great WR with attitude (Smith, RMoss), talented chemistry-killing WR (Michael Westbrook), and befuddling WR with attitude (Cinco Ocho). Gruden must think Bryant is worth the risk.


IMHO, the biggest mistake the Redskins ever made on draft day may be Andre Johnson from Penn State. They picked a guy that didn't want to play football!!!!! A first rounder CUT in his rookie training camp!!!!! Close on the heels of drafting the dumbest QB ever.

Do those two go on Norv or Charlie Casserly?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Why would the lions want Carlos? They are years away from being good and need to build through the draft, not get a corner who can't catch, and has a bad knee.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 3:52 PM

Just an example. However, I would think Carlos would improve that position on the Lions. He is signed for another year, so they can have a year of play before signing him to a new contract. Also with 2 of the first 15 picks in this draft getting Carlos would mean the Lions (Ford family) won't have to invest another huge signing bonus for another year if they wanted to. I don't think getting a second for Carlos is out of the realm.

Posted by: TWISI | January 7, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

By the way, how come Vinny Cerrato didn't draft Matt Ryan, Gaines Adams, Darren McFarland, Chris Long, and Glenn Dorsey this last draft? A good GM would have, you betcha.


Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

We would have had to sell the farm to get just one of these guys, also Gaines Adams was 2 years ago. If we have him we don't have Landry although, I think he would have better suited our team seriously. I like Landry he a stud, but with our corners and those 2 young safties a pass rush and we don't need the high profile safety. A good line would probably allow one of the rookies to emerge.

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | January 7, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

"NO, people would give him less crap, if were to fold tents, and just bounce!!!

I have never wanted someone to stop posting, but G-D, that boy is annoying.

Have you ever had an uncle with stank feet and ate all the cereal stay with you for an extended period of time?

Stank feet uncle = poster @ 3:26 PM

Posted by: RedDMV "


you're so obsessed man


you really look for any chance to talk about me, and then everytime you say "That's it, I'm never mentioning you again."

lol

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I don't think getting a second for Carlos is out of the realm.

Posted by: TWISI | January 7, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

You probably also think global warming and the holocaust are myths too....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

You & the post never cease to amaze me. How in the hell does the fact that Eddie Royal is NOT a big receiver get past everyone and end up in an article? Did none of you watch a Bronco's or a VATech game? Anybody with eyes can see he is small. It took me 10 secs on google to fine out he is 5'10". Didn't any of your sources fill you in?

Posted by: grittar1 | January 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

the worst teams against the pass were
32. Sea
31. SD
30. Chi
29. NYJ
28. KC
27. Det

And I don't see us getting anything from these guys for CR.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I think the Skins need a big back that can pound it inside in the mold of Darren Sproles.

Posted by: jgr007 | January 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse


"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the +++big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

LOL....wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++

I don't care if he was a dwarf. He played bigger than anyone the 'skins have drafted--since Art Monk.

Ask DeAngelo Hall how big he played.

Posted by: TheCork | January 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

By the way, how come Vinny Cerrato didn't draft Matt Ryan, Gaines Adams, Darren McFarland, Chris Long, and Glenn Dorsey this last draft? A good GM would have, you betcha.


Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

We would have had to sell the farm to get just one of these guys, also Gaines Adams was 2 years ago. If we have him we don't have Landry although, I think he would have better suited our team seriously. I like Landry he a stud, but with our corners and those 2 young safties a pass rush and we don't need the high profile safety. A good line would probably allow one of the rookies to emerge.

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | January 7, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse


Proof that sarcasm is still an elusive concept for some...

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"I think the Skins need a big back that can pound it inside in the mold of Darren Sproles."

They've got one- his name is Tj Duckett.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 7, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, before Lisa brains me, Johnson was not cut in training camp. But he never played a down for the Redskins and was cut after his rookie year.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

TJ Duckett is a beast!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

KEEP CARLOS. Period.

Starters at CB - Rogers/Hall
Starters at SS/FS - Landry/Springs

3rd & 4th corner - Smoot/Tryon/Westbrook
Backup SS/FS - Horton/Moore/Green

For 5WR sets, drop Springs into the slot and put Moore in at FS.
Blache has a ton of depth in the defensive backfield, a very talented and think I will enjoy watching how he matches people up next season.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

don't change the subject to fit what you want it too there corky.

Answer the question is Eddie Royal a big receiver?? Yes or no.

Don't bother, I'll do it for you, because you have the inability to do anything but defend Jla no matter how WRONG he is. He could write that the sky is bright pink, and you'd somehow find a way to agree with him.

Eddie Royal is 5'10 180. Which is NOT a BIG RECEIVER.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

i just signed up for this thing, but i was reading yesterday's blog and JLC had us taking a late round punter and full back. I feel like I have to comment on that.
NO thank you rookie punter (what happened last year?) and why waste a pick on a fullback when we clearly have a beast in sellers.

Posted by: mj4cool | January 7, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Antoinio Bryant is a head case. He had issues in Dallas, he had issues in San Fran. i know someone that was in SF while he was there and he was described as a person that just refuses to listen to prove a point. He's a stupid, wanna be baddass wasting his talent.

Reading that Thomas was a one year Div-1 guy that came from junior college explains a lot!

folks you can knock JLC for a lot of things, but Snyder/Cerrato drafts have been horrible. Their best draft picks since they have been here are Betts, Cooley (who is somewhat overrated in my view), Montgomery and Gholsten. just look at the lack of draft picks on our roster! the 2 WRs and the TE are bust thus far in my eyes.

2nd round draft picks should contribute! these guys simply made a few plays 11 on 11. that's it.

Posted by: oknow1 | January 7, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Bean, all Bryant did was throw a shirt in Parcells face? It wasn't like did coke or something... wait...

dpc2003, true, Galloway didn't have a spectacular career, but he's still playing in his 13th year, played in 15+ games every season except three, has 680 catches for over 10,000 yards and 80 TDs.

BUT he did have some "where-are-they-now" type seasons from '99 until '04 - aehh he did have a decent season in '02, but it wasn't anything to write about... wait...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

+++ Guess we all should just write anything even if it's not true and get a job with the Washington Post.

Posted by: Burg_gold_blood+++

Send 'em your resume, Joe Pulitzer. Let us know how it turns out.

Guy blew the physical description on Royal, granted, but everything about his impact is right. And the only damage caused by it is it lets the Board Vultures feel superior.

In the meantime, Vinny Cerrato doesn't know Thomas is a head case and Kelly is a chronic knee case, and the team goes down the crapper.

Posted by: TheCork | January 7, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

pooptownGreg-
JLA was inferring Royal plays like a big receiver, not that he’s a physically big receiver.

Posted by: richard_cranium | January 7, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Trading Rogers is silly. You won't be able to improve on him, CB is a hugely important position, and whatever you do get won't make you better elsewhere.

Now, trading Horton, that might get you something. He's cap friendly, a starter, and has a decent guy behind him (Doughty).

PLUS, you might be able to draft Taylor Mays!

BTW, I looked up that UGA safety. He not so good as Mays in my opinion.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

oknow1 I am not in Vinny or Danny camp but got to correct you about the draft. The Reaper was drafted during Vinny and Dan time.


JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 7, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

no one will trade for horton. he made a lot of rookie mistakes to go with his big plays.

Posted by: mj4cool | January 7, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Look, Cerrato may not have been all that good in the draft, a point I'm not willing to concede.

But for the sake of argument, has he had a bust comparable to Shuler or Johnson? Does Patrick Ramsey go on Cerrato's record?

Ramsey was not a bust on the scale of a Shuler.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Ah, but Horton will no longer be a rookie next year. So no "rookie mistakes" are possible.

I run rings round you logically.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Antoinio Bryant is a head case. He had issues in Dallas, he had issues in San Fran. i know someone that was in SF while he was there and he was described as a person that just refuses to listen to prove a point. He's a stupid, wanna be baddass wasting his talent.

Posted by: oknow1 | January 7, 2009 4:10 PM

I don't think this applies to him anymore. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not. I don't like to see people F up, and I hope he's learned from his mistakes.

I don't understand how we could rush so quickly to judgement in regards to a man's character, with Sean Taylor touching our lives the way he did. He helped peole understand that you CAN NOT judge a man so quickly... to give him time to mature, if he's relatively young.

Then again I have to remember that every 'skins fan DID NOT believe that he had changed at all. These are the same ones who feel we canonize the man.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Jason, are we ever going to get anywhere with this team as long as Vinny and Daniel are making the personel choices? If we could get a big name coach would DS let him have the final say? We love our team! Somebody help us! Please!!

Posted by: coastallp74 | January 7, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

+++wall-e did get good reviews but i hear, in passing from right wing radio talk show hosts that people (especially them) didn't like the whole subliminal message that if we don't take care of earth..++++

Screw Right wing radio talk show hosts. They ALSO thought the war in Iraq was justified, the trickle down theory works, Social Security should be privatized, George Bush was a patriot, and deregulation of everything solves all the problems of mankind.


wall-E wasn't "subliminal.." Had it been, those morons would have through it was about a robot in space. It WAS about saving the Earth--those fools probably think that's a bad thing.

They want to use up ALL the world's resources for their own greedy needs, and justify their bloody deeds in the name of destiny and in the name of God. (not plagiarism, Homage..."The Last resort")

You should check out a great documentary called "Encounters at the End of the World."

Posted by: TheCork | January 7, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"Let's look first at that draft. If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking, in the middle of the second round...........Royal had to learn just as difficult a system in Denver - another West Coast team - and was a game breaker in various ways. With another 900 receiving yards and seven or eight TDs, the Redskins' offense would have been much different."

Wow....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Royal

Eddie Royal is 5' 10". How is he a big target?

With statments like this, how can I trust the rest of this blog post before I finish reading it?

Also, why would we draft a back up center in the 2nd round when we JUST signed a Free Agent 4 years ago?? And he is only 30????

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"folks you can knock JLC for a lot of things, but Snyder/Cerrato drafts have been horrible.

Posted by: oknow1"

I posted this yesterday, but it seems like an appropriate re-post as a response:

Cerrato is not a bad judge of talent. Since 1999, there was only one draft that Vinny wasn't a part of. That was 2001 (the Rod Gardner draft).

In the other years from 1999 to now, this is the list of successful Vinny picks in rounds 1-3:

Champ Bailey, Jon Jansen, Lavar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Ladell Betts, Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, Derrick Dockerry, Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, Rocky Macintosh, Laron Landry

Here's the list of busts:

Lloyd Harrison (3rd round), Patrick Ramsey (1st round), Taylor Jacobs (2nd round), Rashad Bouman (3rd round), Cliff Russell (3rd round)

That's 12 successful picks with only 5 busts, and 3 of the busts were 3rd rounders. That's actually a really good percentage.

My problem with Cerrato is that he has no idea how to do anything else. He's a glorified scout. He doesn't know how to value FAs, doesn't know how to value the current players on his roster, doesn't understand the value of draft picks, doesn't understand the nuances of how age affects players, doesn't know how to mesh players so that a roster resembles a team instead of a collection of talent, doesn't properly value positions on the field the way he should, doesn't know how to properly mesh a roster in order to fit the system this team employs, and never has a viable plan for how to get where he envisions the team to be in the future (if he has a vision for the future at all).

ALL he can do is evaluate talent. That's it. He knows nothing else of how to build a team. And this is the reason you constantly hear the players say (and why you think to yourself) that this team has its share of talent, yet is constantly underachieving.

A true general manager is needed here (captain obvious). Keep Vinny as a scout if you want, but get someone in here that knows how to build a TEAM, not just evaluate talent.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

pooptownGreg-
JLA was inferring Royal plays like a big receiver, not that he’s a physically big receiver.


Posted by: richard_cranium | January 7, 2009 4:12 PM

Either you hate Boston, Greg, or you drink the flavor-aid money shot style from La Canfora...

Not saying that La Canfora actually gives you...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"BTW, I looked up that UGA safety. He not so good as Mays in my opinion.

Posted by: dpc2003 "

UGA safety is absolute trash. He's the reason we lost to Georgia Tech.

if you're talking about Eric Berry, he's a safety I was talking about before on here, he's from Tennessee and he's beastly. No denying he's better than Taylor Mays.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

psps23, I think I know what you're asking.

You want me, The Truth, to step up to the plate and lead the Redskins to greatness, don't you?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

dcp, Simms never threw a shirt in parcells face, during a practice, getting him bounced from practice.

Bryant has played for Dallas, TB, SF, and was out of football for a year.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 3:46 PM

Don't forget Cleveland!

Posted by: kost52 | January 7, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"I do believe this was finally Thrash's last season here, however, and if I were the Skins, I'd be looking at a Bobby Engram in free agency (still thought they should have given D.J. Hackett a mere $1.5 million to sign here last year and upgraded that way).
"

JLaC should quit trying to be a pimp. No one is buying the product he rolls out to the customers. DJ Hackett? Come the F*%K on........

BOBBY ENGRAM? Whhaaa? HE IS 35 YEARS OLD!!

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

seriously did you even try to do any research before writing this article????

RIDICULOUS STATEMENT #1...."If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking"

REALITY.....Eddie Royal is 5'10" and 182 lbs (and that is being generous).....in case any one is wondering that is the same height as Santana Moss and about 18 lbs lighter!!!

RIDICULOUS STATEMENT #2......"then used the other two picks on a back-up center (there were many sitting there late in the second round) and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling"

REALITY......Please explain to me who you can draft Phillip Merling with one of the other 2 picks (#48 & 51 respectfully) when Merling was drafted with the first pick of the 2nd round?

2 picks before he has us picking the BIG TARGET RECEIVER Eddie Royal and 16 picks before our 2nd pick in the 2nd round.

And which back-up center should we have took with our 3rd 2nd rounder? According the NFL.com draft recap only 2 centers were drafts both in the 6th round (but i guess that is not to far to reach right jason?)...

Hell maybe he meant any interior offensive lineman in that case our best option in the second round would have been a couple of guys that ended up going in the 3rd round....

Jason there were only 3 offensive lineman (2 OT and 1 guard) even taken between our 2nd pick in the second round and our Compensatory pick in the 3rd round (where drumroll please....we selected an offensive linemen)

Posted by: guinness4health | January 7, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

how many 2nd year guys do you know that have been traded? horton stays (and should)

Posted by: mj4cool | January 7, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

JLaC should quit trying to be a pimp. No one is buying the product he rolls out to the customers. DJ Hackett? Come the F*%K on........

BOBBY ENGRAM? Whhaaa? HE IS 35 YEARS OLD!!

Posted by: 4thFloor

4th some of the bs isn't even worth pointing out anymore

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 7, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

+++don't change the subject to fit what you want it too there corky.

Answer the question is Eddie Royal a big receiver?? Yes or no.++++BEANTOWN GREG

Blow it out your pooper. You want to order something around, buy a dog, or get Vinny to hire you an Intern.

I CLEARLY stated Eddie Royal PLAYED big.

Is 5'10" 185 physically imposing? It is to 5'6" Darren Sproles who ALSO PLAYED BIG. Probably is 5'9 J.T. TRYON, who the man you idolize picked to defend guys like Royal.

+++Don't bother, I'll do it for you, because you have the inability to do anything but defend Jla no matter how WRONG he is. He could write that the sky is bright pink, and you'd somehow find a way to agree with him.+++

I don't defend him all the time. I ripped the crap out of him for a cheap shot at Geissinger, for instance, not becuase he ripped him, but because he ripped a borderline player who can't defend himself. I don't like bullies.

And I think it's ridiculous to read guys like you who attack him constantly, then show their own journalism chops by noting that Cooley was on the radio but you don't know what he said, but he might have said this or that.

Playing Gotcha with the messenger while the team goes down the crapper is a waste of electrons.

Posted by: TheCork | January 7, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I agree with 4th.

Pimpin ain't easy.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, I got agree with most of the bloggers, I have been a long time supporter Jla and all his work, but these positional reviews are pretty much repetitive jibba jabbar and apparently I put more research into my posts than Jla did before this one, cause just about every point he made was factually incorrect except that everybody but Moss is bad. It was like listening to bizarro Vinny, exact opposite end of the spectrum in terms of positive vs. negative, but with all the same factual errors.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

first things first... jlc is a huge tool!!! quick question: Aren't emgram and thrash the same age? another question: would you draft j. malkin from mizzou if he fell into the skins lap at 13? it doesn't seem like larenitis or cushing will be around at 13 and drafting johnson from georgia tech would be drafting a younger undersized de!!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | January 7, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I can't resist JM220.

Also, didn't JLa say that if you draft a player in the 1st or 2nd round, they should be starters???????????????????

So, why is he telling us to draft a BACKUP CENTER of all things in the 2nd round?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Drafting is really hard. Guys who are good/great in college may not do well in the pro's. About the only thing you can really rely on is attitude.

Here's a list of Butkus Award winners. How many of them were great or even good pros?
1985 Brian Bosworth Oklahoma
1986 Brian Bosworth Oklahoma
1987 Paul McGowan Florida State
1988 Derrick Thomas Alabama
1989 Percy Snow Michigan State
1990 Alfred Williams Colorado
1991 Erick Anderson Michigan
1992 Marvin Jones Florida State
1993 Trev Alberts Nebraska
1994 Dana Howard Illinois
1995 Kevin Hardy Illinois
1996 Matt Russell Colorado
1997 Andy Katzenmoyer Ohio State
1998 Chris Claiborne USC
1999 LaVar Arrington Penn State
2000 Dan Morgan Miami
2001 Rocky Calmus Oklahoma
2002 E.J. Henderson Maryland
2003 Teddy Lehman Oklahoma
2004 Derrick Johnson Texas
2005 Paul Posluszny Penn State
2006 Patrick Willis Ole Miss
2007 James Laurinaitis Ohio State
2008 Aaron Curry Wake Forest

Willis looks like a keeper.

Henderson is a keeper. Teddy Lehman? Nope. Derrick Johnson? Eh.

The Outland Trophy, however, seems to have a much better track record.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Playing Gotcha with the messenger while the team goes down the crapper is a waste of electrons.

Posted by: TheCork | January 7, 2009 4:36 PM

Is there an electron shortage that I haven't heard about? If so, is there some way to cash in on it? Thanks in advance.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 7, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

5 WR 2009
Moss (5-10, 200lb)
Thomas (6-2, 218)
Kelly (6-4 219)
ARE (5-10, 190)
Horace Gant (6-3, 218)

9 DBS on the roster. Who you got?
5 Corners - Rogers/Hall/Springs/Smoot/Westbrook
4 Safeties - Landry/Horton & Dougthy/Moore
But don't forget about Mike Green, of Justin Tryin- cuts.

Westbrook can also return punts.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"You don't invest so heavily in receivers if you're thinking that a marginal 35-year-old is going to play more than they will."

To me, this is the most confusing line. If you think a marginal 35 y.o. is going to play, then you DO invest heavily in receivers.

And how does someone play more than they will??

Posted by: kost52 | January 7, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

guess I could believe 3rd round, but can anyone set me right on why Rogers would be worth a 2? Just wondering thanks

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 3:30 PM

Because, AT WORST, he's a top 32 corner in this league (would start on majority of teams, even be the #1 on a majority of the teams), he's an elite tackler, he's a great cover corner (top 5 in passes defensed), he's entering his prime, he's still getting better being only a year removed from major knee surgery (which had no complications), and has improved every year he's been in the league. And above all, he's proven.

Meanwhile, a 4th round draft pick (not too far removed from the 3rd rounder you seem to think would be a stretch, if viable) nets a team Justin Tryon.

End of story. Carlos Rogers should be worth a top 10 draft pick for the Redskins. It would be disappointing if they got a late 1st rounder. It would be an absolute swindle if they get anything lower.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I believe by "they" he mean the receivers they invested so heavily in. However, based on the rest of this post I'm not entirely sure what he meant.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 7, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"And I think it's ridiculous to read guys like you who attack him constantly, then show their own journalism chops by noting that Cooley was on the radio but you don't know what he said, but he might have said this or that"

As usual, don't let facts get in your way there corkster, it was Kendall who I said was on the radio, just like you look past all the factual short-comings in this post, and try and change the agenda to fit your argument.

Now go fetch me the paper....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 7, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

End of story. Carlos Rogers should be worth a top 10 draft pick for the Redskins. It would be disappointing if they got a late 1st rounder. It would be an absolute swindle if they get anything lower.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I mean.....just wow, he wasn't even a starter at the end of the year for us....I hope that was a post in jest, cause if not, you're crazy if you think anybody would give over a 3rd or prolly even a third for him.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

300,000 comments later....

Jason started this thing two years ago and the magic for hims sure seems to be gone. But he's still allowed to post his opinions cause it ain't the newspaper.

The Skins' season is over, so what's the news from Ashburn? Well, there isn't any. What else is Jasno suppose to post?

It's the jibba jabba that makes this blog, not the posts so much.

But you guys are doing a great job of vetting Jasno's material. Was this his best post? Um, no.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

the Raiders were laughed at for giving a 2nd for Hall who at the time was an elite pro bowl corner. Now, a year later, after Carlos lost his job to a unhealthy 34 year old and a guy who was cut and signed mid season from that same laughable trade you now say Carlos is worth a top 10? hahahhahahahaha

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Let's all just put this post out of our memories.

Yall basically all picked apart every sentence or at least every other sentence.

Reading it, I thought of about 4 or 5 sentences that were inaccurate\lies, but yall just basically disproved the whole article.

Ouch.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Truth, I'll have to look more at Berry, but by the numbers, he's not the same physical specimen as Mays. Mays is also a FS which would let Landry return to SS. Berry plays SS.

I will grant you that he can return picks like nobody's business. Maybe he he'd be a good return man.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

+++End of story. Carlos Rogers should be worth a top 10 draft pick for the Redskins. It would be disappointing if they got a late 1st rounder. It would be an absolute swindle if they get anything lower.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I mean.....just wow, he wasn't even a starter at the end of the year for us....I hope that was a post in jest, cause if not, you're crazy if you think anybody would give over a 3rd or prolly even a third for him.++++

I am crazy. Of course, I did a lot of drugs back in the day. I wouldn't trade Carlos for two first round picks.... maybe I'm still a little high?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Eric Berry gets by because he is a football player that is a very good athlete.

Taylor Mays gets by because he is a extraordinary athlete.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

+++the Raiders were laughed at for giving a 2nd for Hall who at the time was an elite pro bowl corner. Now, a year later, after Carlos lost his job to a unhealthy 34 year old and a guy who was cut and signed mid season from that same laughable trade you now say Carlos is worth a top 10? hahahhahahahaha

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 4:50 PM+++

He was drafted 9th overall? He's solid. Should warrant at least a first round selection with his youth and progression. What 34yr old guy are you referring to?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"the Raiders were laughed at for giving a 2nd for Hall who at the time was an elite pro bowl corner.

Posted by: zjfr2"

No, the Raiders were laughed at for giving Hall a $70 million contract, not for giving up a 2nd round pick for Hall.

On top of that:

(1) I didn't say the Redskins would get a top 10 pick for him. I said the Redskins should VALUE him as a top 10 pick.

(2) Only in the land of the Redskins is it a "smart" move to draft a guy #9 overall, develop him steadily, watch him improve year after year, see him turn into a top starting-caliber corner, then trade him away for a 3rd round pick. I must admit, it's a pretty brilliant strategy.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Nobody would even think about a first rounder for Carlos Rogers.

They would literally laugh at poor Vinny for asking.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 7, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking, in the middle of the second round, then used the other two picks on a back-up center (there were many sitting there late in the second round) and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling, this team easily would have been in the playoffs.
___________________________

Isn't that a little like saying if I was a foot taller, black instead of white and had $100 million more in the bank, I'd be Shaquille O'Neal?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 7, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Mays finished 3rd behind Berry for the Jim Thorpe award, so I grant you that the majority (of Thorpe Award voters) agree with the Truth.

Mays is very smart, and his football skills have improved a lot the last 2 years. He is definitely an extraordinary athlete. So why would you prefer a good athlete to an extraordinary one?

I tell you I got shivers watching Mays in the Rose Bowl. Seeing him slice through blockers to KO a RB was like watching a ghost

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

(2) Only in the land of the Redskins is it a "smart" move to draft a guy #9 overall, develop him steadily, watch him improve year after year, see him turn into a top starting-caliber corner, then trade him away for a 3rd round pick. I must admit, it's a pretty brilliant strategy.

Posted by: psps23 | January 7, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Of this we are in total agreement, I've said all day it makes absolutely no sense in shipping him out just to get a draft pick when there is no way you'll get a good draft pick and you'll just create another hole you need to fill in the process.....

He was drafted 9th overall? He's solid. Should warrant at least a first round selection with his youth and progression. What 34yr old guy are you referring to?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm referring to Springs, as soon as Springs got back healthy, the starters at corner the last three games were Springs and Hall. And just because we took him at #9 overall doesn't mean he's worth that now. Pacman and Antrelle Rolle went in that same area would you give a top 10 pick for them? Rogers certainly is the best of that bunch, and is a decent corner, but he has terrible hands, gets beat deep and on the double move way to much and at best is an above average player one year removed from a major knee injury. What team is going to line up to give a high draft pick for him when there are several good/better corners set to be available in free agency (check my list from earlier) and a draft where they can draft and sign a younger (healthier) guy cheaper and longer term than a guy who has always thought he is better than he really is and is only under contract for one more season then will want to get paid....ergo, 4th rounder most likely, maybe an extreme long shot at a 3rd....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

p.s. besides, Royal is 5' 11" on a good day. Hardly a "big target receiver"

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 7, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Eddie Royal a big receiver?

Cmon jason. You ruin all your arguments by over exaggerating.

Posted by: offbyone | January 7, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

"over exaggerating."

How does one do this?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

One more thing then I'll shut up about Mays. For today.

Watching him, he plays about 20% faster than anybody else on the field. I think his first couple of years he was figuring out where he wanted to go, which slowed him down.

Now he knows. He may have a similar adjustment in the NFL, but once he does, he'll be going about 15% faster than everybody else. And when he gets there it's sleepy-time!

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Here is my plan for the offseason-

First off, we need to keep both Rogers and Hallm they suit each other, Rogers can lock down a reciever, and while Hall's coverage can be shaky, hes a turnover machine and thats a good combo in a D Backfield.

Second, we need to find a way to get Maualuga. Alot of people think we need an O-lineman 1st, but this is the Deepest O-line draft in the last 15 years, and our defense doesnt have 3 starting LBs, maybe even just one if Mcintosh's knees stay bad and when Fletcher starts to age, it will be 2006 all over again for a D that bases everything off of the Linebackers. Plus Maualuga is a beast and will be a Ray Lewis type of guy for years to come, i dont care if we have to trade up.

To address the oline, i think we need to spend the majority of the rest of our picks there, but additionally, we should move at least 3 or 4 picks next year to get picks this year. We need to draft O-linemen, and what we need wont be as good next year, so the picks would be more valuable this year. Plus the guys they draft would get one more year with Buges before he leaves.

Third, we need to replace Betts at HB, use a pick on a burner, in the sproles mold, one who can return kicks and is a game breaker.

If we do this, we would lay a good foundation for years to come.

Posted by: DaFunBunch | January 7, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

yup another safety! the golden ticket! Lets add to the one position we have some young depth.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I love reading Mock Drafts, it just gets me excited about who I'll be seeing in the Maroon and Black next season, but sometimes I just don't understand the writer's perspective.

So far today, I've read a few, here's who they've had us taking-

2 x DE Everette Brown - Makes sense.
2 x DE Michael Johnson - Makes sense.
1 x OT Jason Smith - Makes sense.
1 x OT Ciron Black - Makes sense.
1 x LB Aaron Curry - Not really, but a possibility.
1 x LB Brian Cushing - Not really but a possibilty.
1 x Malcolm Jenkins - What the?
1 x CB Vontae Davis - What the?

Posted by: kost52 | January 7, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

to continue ranting, i think Blache should consider putting in a fluid 3-4 type of package for third down. Both Carter and Taylor (whoever we keep) have played in those systems and can go standing or hand down, Golston, Evans Montgomery Alexander and Daniels are all guys who could play the 3 tackle positions. There are so many possibilites here, just to get a different look and force some comotion and turnovers. The top sack teams happen to be 3-4 D's, and 3rd down is about pressure and sacks. I think if we can somehow figure out how to get more speed in the backfield, it would def help taylor, he had a beast game vs philly and was standing up most the whole game, we would be more of a force on Defense

Posted by: DaFunBunch | January 7, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Chrislarry, you miss my point: since safety is where the Redskins have good young depth, that's where we have players that can be traded to get better elsewhere.

Trading a CB is dumb because there is little depth, lots of cap implications, and it's unlikely you get what it would cost to replace the traded player.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 7, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey JLC the Baltimore Examiner is hiring, go work for them you no talent hack!!!!! Every paragraph in the posting you made contains half truths that you construed to make previous claims seem legitimate.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 7, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"over exaggerating."

How does one do this?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 5:09 PM


Drinking eight beers in 30 mins = exaggerating

Drinking eight vodka double shots in 30 mins = over exaggerating

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Peter King came up with his personal All-Pro team today. Don Banks came up with his personal All-Disappointment team today.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/01/07/all-disappointment-team/index.html

Because four Skins are on his list (Jason Taylor, Marcus Washington, D'Angelo Hall, and Shaun Suisham), as starting disappointments, not dishonorable mentions, Don Banks must be a blind hater.

Also, did anybody else notice that Jasno said Eddie Royal was a "big target"? Just noticed that ... wasn't sure whether any of the thousand posts up here since then did ... or whether anyone checked on (and posted) Royal's actual height and weight.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"...i think Blache should consider putting in a fluid 3-4 type of package for third down."

Posted by: DaFunBunch | January 7, 2009 5:27 PM

Another comes over to the 3-4 idea. Even if you can't do it for next season, Blache probably won't be after next year anyway, most of the guys who completely won't fir the system will be on their way out... start putting the pieces in place NOW, ya heard me Vinny?

3-4 in 2010!

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Loseable type: part 1 of 2:

After hearing varied views on what a great/horrible draft Vinny had this last year, I thought I would try to bring at least a little structure to the question, specifically: if the Redskins swapped players with the team had the pick immediately following each of their selections, would they be better off or worse off? Since I wasn’t familiar with all the other teams drafts I wasn’t particularly sure which way this would go. So I tried to compare the 2 players for their contributions this year (I know, but it is the only standard you can measure vs just jibba jabba about) and then threw in my own arbitrary take. Net result is the Redskins would be happier to swap 7 out of the 10 picks with the teams following them, at least in my estimation, and really would only be upset over swapping 1 of theirs (trading Horton for a guy who didn’t play in a single game). Not a particularly strong track record – 1 strong winner in this one on one comparison out of 10….Here’s how I came to that:

1. Devin Thomas WR 15/120/0 rec vs. Brandon Flowers CB KC. Flowers had 2 INTs 1 of which was returned for TD (more than entire Redskins team). Redskins win? No
2. Fred Davis TE 3/27/0 rec. vs. DeSean Jackson WR 62/912/2. If Redskins could trade sleepy for Jackson, they would do it in a second. Redskins win? No, big time losers
3. Malcolm Kelley (0 starts, 3/18/0 rec) vs. JAC Quentin Groves – DE – 2.5 sacks. Groves is perceived as growing into a decent DE. Redskins win? No

zornskins

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

A receiver running down the field has area around him where he can catch the ball. In a timed offense, the QB has to throw the ball in a certain area. If those two areas overlap, that's a pretty big target. If the receiver does not run routes well ... stopping three yards short or over-running it by three yards ... then the overlap of those two areas is small. That would not a pretty small target.

Admittedly, the area for possible overlap around a taller receiver is bigger than the area around a shorter receiver (who can't or doesn't jump so high, exposing his body) because the taller guy is ... taller. Maybe I'm over explaining this. I think Santana Moss is a bigger target than Devin Thomas.

I'm not trying to rehab Jasno's "big target" line, but there are other ways to think about what "big target" might mean other than height and weight. I see Cork tried this and get his head bit off. Oh well, even if mine gets bit off, I haven't been using my head much lately anyway.

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

2 of 2, sorry

4. Chad Rinehart (0 games) vs. CIN Andre Caldwell WR (7/78). Caldwell put up not great numbers within a bad offense. On the other hand Rinehart couldn’t make it on the field even with a battered OL in front of him. Redskins win? No, more by default though
5. Justin Tryon CB 0 starts 4 tackles vs. Oakland’s Arman Shields WR (IR for seasaon). Arman Shields is expected to be a solid WR next year but was placed on the IR. Tryon hasn’t done much but disappoint…still, by default / luck Redskins win this round due to opponent injury. Redskins win? Yes, by default this time the other way
6. Brooks Durant, 6 games, 26 punts/1030 yards vs. Raiders DE Trevor Scott. Scott had more sacks than anyone on the Redskins roster (5). Redskins win? Not by a long shot.
7. Kareem Moore 14 games 1 start, 17 tackles vs. Panthers Nick Hayden 2 games 0 starts 3 tackles. Redskins win? Yes, well done I think.
8. Colt Brennan 0 games played vs. John Sullivan C Vikings. Sullivan didn’t play a snap this year (like Colt) but is projected to contend for the starting C job next year with departure of Birk. Redskins win? This one is a little bit unfair as the last thing we wanted was 3rd QB getting playing time but at this point I think you have to say no. Redskins win? No, but more by default /by the standard I am using.
9. Rob Jackson DE vs. Bears OLB Joey LaRoque: 3 games 1 tackle loses a close one to 6 games 6 tackles. Redskins win? no, but neither one that great.
10. In the vaunted 10 spot is Chris Horton 10 starts 76 tackles 1 start, easily blowing away MacKenzy Bernadeau, no games or starts. Redskins win: Yes, +5 points

I am sure others would have different judgements but my takeaway is that there is 1 pick where Redskins were clear winners (Horton), 2 where they were marginal winners (Tryon, believe it or not, and Moore), and 7 where they were net losers. But feel free to tally up your own score at home!

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 7, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

+++I'm referring to Springs, as soon as Springs got back healthy, the starters at corner the last three games were Springs and Hall. And just because we took him at #9 overall doesn't mean he's worth that now. Pacman and Antrelle Rolle went in that same area would you give a top 10 pick for them? Rogers certainly is the best of that bunch, and is a decent corner, but he has terrible hands, gets beat deep and on the double move way to much and at best is an above average player one year removed from a major knee injury. What team is going to line up to give a high draft pick for him when there are several good/better corners set to be available in free agency (check my list from earlier) and a draft where they can draft and sign a younger (healthier) guy cheaper and longer term than a guy who has always thought he is better than he really is and is only under contract for one more season then will want to get paid....ergo, 4th rounder most likely, maybe an extreme long shot at a 3rd....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 7, 2009 5:07 PM+++

I think it was planned that way; Springs plays because he's our best corner. so when he's healthy, you play him. Hall played because we picked him up and needed to play so the skins could see what kind of player he is (is he D Hall from ATL or D Hall from Oak?) It was more for evaluating the talent at the position rather then demoting Carlos. .. .I never heard Blache say that Carlos was demoted?

If the skins are gonna sign Hall (and I hope they do) then they needed to see him perform in the starting line. I still think that we could see all three of the aforementioned players on the roster next season. And if we let Springs go, he would for sure sign with Dallas.....

I like Carlos because we drafted him, he's continually improving and I'd hate to see him go because Vinny declares himself a genius and MUST make a trade.....

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

sween,
You should call that the Steve Largent rule.
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=123

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Chris Horton. Fourth to the last guy picked in the draft. Skins' own Mr. Irrelevant. Compensatory pick (probably compensation for un-re-signed Christian Fauria or some other Vinnocent stroke of genius signing). Gotta love blind pigs and acorns and whatnot. Chris Horton was one of the most exciting guys to watch play this season. Exuberance with a purpose. He made big targets small.

*** Man love for Chris Horton off. ***

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

For Jason Campbell, who's trying to learn to pass before the WR breaks, precise routes are everything.

Campbell must have kept his head out there, because by rights he should have more picks than Brett the Jet.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, I give. I clicked the link, but I don't get it. Why is that the Steve Largent rule?

Posted by: dcsween | January 7, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Is it Largent rule because is was a physically small receiver but was a 'big target' because of his play..... I didn't know that Largent was selected in the fourth round and then traded after the preseason to the expansion seahawks... for an eight round pick. Sounds like Vinny had a play in that trade too.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 7, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly: drafted in 2nd round even though he has the speed of a defensive end and medical staff believe he may never be healthy enough to play.

Fred Davis: Drafted in 2nd round even though the Redskins hadn't worked him out, let alone interviewed him.

Devin Thomas: Drafted in 2nd round despite apparent prima donna, apathetic attitude.

That is not merely incompetent drafting, but a surrealistic nightmare veering into Da-Da, the nihilistic and satanic. Cerrato, even if your scouts suck, read some mock drafts. The only recourse for dealing with an egomaniacal, entrenched and incompetent owner and his GM is to stop going to games, or watching them, and if one must go to them, chanting for Cerrato to go as Knicks fans did with Isaiah. Make it such an issue that the national media picks it up and the two are shamed out of the castle. Neither guy has played in the NFL, college or high school, which may account for their naive faith in flashy skill positions over the trenches, where games are won and lost. Don't trade Rogers because you blew all your draft picks, cap room with bad free agents and neglected the lines so long you suddenly have no one. The secondary is the one thing this franchise has done right. If he trades Rogers for a draft pick, we'll end up with another Tryon, Kelly or Davis to show for it.

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 7, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Mangani signs 4 year deal with the Jets.

Whats up with the Jets/Browns/Patriots connection?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

"over exaggerating."

How does one do this?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 5:09 PM


Drinking eight beers in 30 mins = exaggerating

Drinking eight vodka double shots in 30 mins = over exaggerating

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 5:38 PM

LMAO!

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV -

We were cool until I see you want us to switch to 3-4.

Dude, 3-4 are for those AFC suckers (and those cowgirls).........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I thought it was joke when I saw earlier that Joe THE PLUMBER wil be a war reporter and going to Isreal/Palenstine....

BUT IT'S NOT!

If it wasn't for this stupid post that wrecks JLa's credibility, this would be big news up here.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Moss is no longer one of the elite receivers in the game. He is the best playmaker the Skins have, but without a dynamic second receiver to complement him, he's pretty easily taken away. His size is a detriment and unlike, say Carolina's Steve Smith, he isn't going to beat Cover-2 for deep plays with any sort of regularity. And with such a dearth of talent around him, that's generally what it takes for the Skins to have any offensive success. When opponents ignore him early, he reminds them that he can still play with a few big games. Then opponents double up on him and effectively shut him down. That's basically been the story of the past few seasons.++++

I know this is offering my head to the chop block to the JLC haters, but read it again and tell me what is wrong with this paragraph?
Moss isn't what he once was, still best the Skins have,
S. Smith is much better, beats double coverage often.
There isn't another receiver that other teams fear on the Skins.
Double Moss, and you have taken him out of the game.
Some of the teams with better LB's cover Cooley man to man, and control him.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 7, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Largent didn't have size or speed, but ran deadly precise routes and his QB, whatshisname, knew precisely where and when to throw the ball. Largent would be there. He was extremely disciplined.

Come to think of it, it doesn't apply to the area you were talking about. It really is about the QB and WR being so in synch that they intentionally shrinking that area to ensure a catch and avoid a pick.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Dude, 3-4 are for those AFC suckers (and those cowgirls).........

Posted by: 4thFloor +++

...and the Steelers who routinely have a top rated D.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 7, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

...and the Steelers who routinely have a top rated D.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 7, 2009 6:25 PM

As so do the Skins/Eagles/Giants/Carolina........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

"over exaggerating."

How does one do this?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 5:09 PM


Drinking eight beers in 30 mins = exaggerating

Drinking eight vodka double shots i

n 30 mins = over exaggerating

makes sense when you put it that way i guess....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

3-4 seemed preety nfc east when the giants ran it in the LT years....

all schemes have merit when they best employ the skillts, talents and strenths of the personal while masking deficiencies...


this is why "my scheme or the highway" type coaches blow chunks...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

excuse my more than normal tard typing....one handed due to baby bouncing...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 7, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

i'm pretty sure eddie royal was the strongest WR coming out of college. check his bench press records vs all other receivers. did JLAC mean that?

Posted by: dadanimal | January 7, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I know this is offering my head to the chop block to the JLC haters,......

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 7, 2009 6:23 PM

I resent that term. That is sooo 2008.

2009 = 2 TCCLers of the blog.

Since I have been deemed one by the people, I'll give my take.

Smith is only marginally better than Moss.

The difference is Smith has a real QB and we have a WIP (Work in proceess for non accountants) QB with no real complement WR(Muhamad).........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

I was hoping nobody remembered the 80s Giants.

Cl - The baby dosen't try to type away at the CPU?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

ooops I meant the Browns - Mangini to the Browns as HC. Obvisouly I went to the La Canfora school of writing.

maybe not 3-4 only, but like 4-3/3-4 hybrid style, like the Ravens when suggs goes into a stance.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 7, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

cL,
Be careful.

My six year old just turned into a football maniac, he's obsessed, that's all he wants to talk about. Fortunately, he hasn't figured out the blog yet.

(He may be the next Poolman.)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 7, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry but La Canfora is a disgrace to journalism everywhere with his blatant hatred for Snyder and the Skins!! That Eddie Royal comment was so over the top that anything he says really must be dissected for truth and bias!!
What kind of an idiot can't even get 20/20 hindsight of the NFL draft correct!!

Posted by: dkidwell61 | January 7, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Beep.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 7, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the +++big, target receiver they were seeking"

Eddie Royal - 5'10, 182 pounds.

LOL....wow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++

I don't care if he was a dwarf. He played bigger than anyone the 'skins have drafted--since Art Monk.

Ask DeAngelo Hall how big he played.

Posted by: TheCork

Exactly. Our rookies do not get open and do not catch passes. Other rookies, even small ones, did seem to find a way to catch passes. No matter if JLac misstated the size, the main point is that other rookie wide receivers performed while ours simply did not. Maybe Cerrato and Snyder drafted more for size than for the ability to get open, and more importantly, catch the ball. So in the end they get big receivers who do nothing to help the team.

Posted by: driley | January 7, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

"Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic. With a swagger that was not backed up by his play, he did not do enough to get himself physically and mentally ready to play, and many in the organization wonder if he ever will. He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife and he never made any real strides toward becoming a regular part of the offense."

If this is true, the Redskins' staff obviously didn't do their homework. That's the real story.

Posted by: doolindalton | January 7, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins would have been a bonafied playoff team with even a middle of the pack offense and they could have been with the players they have.

Other teams have proven they can move the ball and score points with mediocre to decent receivers (KC a few years ago, the Chargers, Dolphins, Ravens, Eagles, etc.) by spreading the ball around to their running backs and tight ends (and generally being more creative on offense - Wildcat, no huddle, gadget plays, moving the pocket around, etc.). If Moss and Cooley were truly being doubled, then design some plays to the running backs and get them the ball in space.

Just like in Fantasy Football, after the top 5 or so WRs, the next 30-45 are pretty much the same. WR is probably the most situational position on offense. Their stats fluctuate wildly based on what team they're on, the offensive scheme (good or bad coaching) and who's throwing them the ball.

Put Eddie Royal on the Skins and he's Malcom Kelly.

Put Malcom Kelly on the Broncos and he's Eddie Royal.

Put Devin Thomas on the Eagles and he's DeSean Jackson (and vice versa).

And look at what happens when:

Roddy White doesn't have Michael Vick as his QB

Javon Walker and Randy Moss go to the Raiders

Musin Muhammed goes to the Bears

Santana Moss goes to the Skins

Anyone with pads and a jersey goes out for a pass in New Orleans (where there was a David Patten sighting).

And so on and so forth. Any 700 yard receiver who goes to the Colts will instantly become a 1000 yard receiver.

The Skins have proven they either can't develop rookies or somehow draft the dumbest, laziest and/or riskiest players time and time again.

The Redskins passing attack was one of the worst in the league, so I don't want to hear excuses about Thomas' attitude or lack of desire (he's getting PAID). Put him, Kelly and Davis on pogo sticks and they're still better than Randle El and Thrash. The offense could not have possibly been worse with them on the field.

And as for Bobby Engram, HELL NO. We will do to him what we did to David Patten... absolutely nothing. Let him go somewhere else and EARN a paycheck. I don't want to see another free agent WR get paid to do nothing around here.

The Redskins were stupid enough to draft 3 pass catchers last year. Coach 'em up, tape 'em up, learn 'em up and get them on the field!

Now go draft some line men!

Posted by: saqster | January 7, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

someone wrote: "also Gaines Adams was 2 years ago."

Would a really good GM have let that stop him -- a little thing like the player wasn't actually in the draft that year?

I think not.

We expect much from our employees.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 7, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

does this idiot even watch football? eddie royal, a big reciever? lol, that comment just made me upset that i even come on this website and read these ridiculous writings. who is this la canfora guy? an idiot, i know, but really..who is this guy

Posted by: ripmeast21 | January 7, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

There are guys out there for nothing. Guys with speed, hands, heart, and brains who would LOVE to play in the NFL...

Problem is, our scouts and everybody else's look in the same small pool every year.

Do the Redskins even HAVE scouts?

Or is it just Vinny and Danny and a stack of Sports Illustrateds?

There are guys out there. Go find one. ONE!!!

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | January 7, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

JLA dropped the ball on that one! And Eddie is 5'9 on a good day, unless that air in Denver has made him taller.

Posted by: Skinalicious | January 7, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

nateinthePDX:

LaC came up short on this article in many ways, but not in relation to THOMAS' head. There is a definite problem with a rookie with TERRELL OWENS-type 'tude which he has been unable to back-up. Hell, I'd rather have THRASH at 35. At least JAMES is still bringing it on special-teams. What scouting genius made the decision to draft THREE first-year busts in the receiver corps(including FRED DAVIS, of course).? Sounds to me as if the one least likely to be physically sound is the only one worth keeping as a receiver. Fix those knees KELLY. Go with ARE one more season then say good-bye. Maybe by then KELLY will be healed up and can contribute.

WIL MONTGOMERY may be a solution at C/G backing up RABACH and THOMAS. Lose GEISIGER. START HEYER, JANSEN as back-up. Sign KENDELL to a one year incentive contract. Play RINEHART. Draft ERIC WOOD-LOUISVILLE in the fifth round. Keep SAMUELS. Sign FABINI to a one year contract.

DEFENSIVELY SIGN:

SPRINGS, HALL, GREEN, AND ROGERS. Keep SMOOT and LANDRY. Lose DOUGHTY. TRYON is NO DARRELL GREEN and never will be an effective starting CB in this league. TOO SMALL. Should be the punt returner.

Lose WASHINGTON. Draft CUSHING from USC or FREEMAN from OSU in the third round. Sign FINCHER, lose K. CAMPBELL. Pick up JASON WILLIAMS-WESTERN ILLINOIS 6th round.

Lose TAYLOR, CARTER. Plug in DANIELS. Sign EVANS. Draft DE BRIAN ORAKPO-TEXAS at #13 or MICHAEL JOHNSON-GEORGIA TECH. See what BUZBEE, JACKSON and WILSON have got. Keep two.

SIGN GRIFFIN for two. Use the money from WASHINGTON, TAYLOR, BOSCHETTI and CARTER to sign HAYNESWORTH. Play GOLSTON. CONTINUE to develop MONTGOMERY, and ALEXANDER.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 7, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

"Let's look first at that draft. If the Redskins had taken Eddie Royal, who fit the mold of the big, target receiver they were seeking, in the middle of the second round, then used the other two picks on a back-up center (there were many sitting there late in the second round) and a defensive lineman like Phillip Merling"

I am not a JLC basher, but come on! Dude needs to turn down the Ipod or go cover English soccer, rugby, cricket, or badmitton. Using his size dimensions, Darren Sproles is the second coming of Shaq!

Posted by: duh2mag | January 7, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 7, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Glawrence, you forgot to jettison Portis. We can't have another season of breaking down midway. Guy is a malcontent and plays for himself, not the team Threw his coach under the bus.

Fletcher, Cooley, Sellars, Springs = Redskins

Portis, Moss, Hall, Carter, Taylor = UHaul

Posted by: duh2mag | January 7, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Wow, that is a really disheartening post. You hope that coaches can keep players like Devin Thomas in line, but this does not bode well.

Yuck. Good inside info though, JLC.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 7, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

How can you say that Eddie Royal was a "big receiver". Yes, in hindsight he was a player. He was picked around 42, so if you want to rerun the draft the Redskins could have picked him at 34 (Jordy Nelson probably makes more sense if we want to get into hypotheticals). Royal is listed at 5'10" 185, hardly "big" by NFL (or any other) standards. You can question the obsession with "big" receivers (though you share it) but you cannot call Eddie Royal "big".

You also cannot say, "take a defensive linemen like Phillip Merling". I guess the "like" is the important qualifier since the Dolphins took Merling at 32 and the Skins did not pick until 34. So by "like" Phillip Merling you must mean actually Calais Campbell, Quinton Groves, or maybe Jason Jones ... but clearly you do not mean Merling. I think the Redskins also would have taken Trevor Laws over Fred Davis but the Eagles took him one pick earlier.

So what you really mean to say is that in retrospect the Redskins should have taken Eddie Royal (except you actually mean Jordy Nelson), Phillip Merling (except you actually mean Calais Campbell), and Mike Pollack. Fair enough, in retrospect, but can you at least shape your arguments to fit reality rather than shaping them to make it seem so glaringly obvious that the Redskins are clueless and you are omniscient?

Posted by: Ehren | January 8, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Good insight on the receivers JLC. Thomas sounds like a cut waiting to happen. When is the NFL going to learn that paying rookies all this money up front simply does not work (on average). Thomas made more than Thrash this year and I would bet he doesn't have half the heart. Go play for Dallas you slacker!

Posted by: Smiley2 | January 8, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

sooooo much inaccurate information...

James Thrash is 33 not 35. Yes 33...two years younger than Engram

Posted by: bbrown4 | January 8, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

The most disappointing piece in the post, IMO, is this: "...but his knees will likely always be a problem. Many teams passed on him for that reason and the Redskins' medical team red flagged him as well. But Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato made many trips to personally watch him work out and were convinced he could play."

As long as Cerrato is running the show from a personnel standpoint, the Redskins will have trouble acquiring the talent necessary to compete.

And as for the Eddie Royal comparison, I'll go one better. The Skins could have taken the other kid from VaTech who played for the Niners. He was taken AFTER Durant Brooks and had more catches and yards COMBINED that Kelly, Thomas, and Fred Davis. Sweet.

Posted by: billyc123 | January 8, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

This team really makes me mad. We let rookie WR's come in who don't work hard, and we let go of preseason superstars like Billy Mc Mullin (Tall, BIG WR) who was the preseason leader in catching yards.

Does anyone at all over there have any sense in the personnel department? Antwan Randle El is the worst!! He should be cut...he has given us nothing at the 2nd WR spot.

Unless you have studs at WR like Anquan Bolden, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, etc then you do not have the best. Do we even have a receiver on the roster that could equal any of the receivers mentioned above?....yeh didn't think so...

We need two top flight receivers, and think of how much trouble Moss would cause if he moved to the slot.

We should stop drafting goodie two shoes players like Randle El who would rather be at choir rehearsal than catch a slant over the middle....and draft or bring in more folks who just wanna catch passes, block, tackle, and knock the shhhnot outta people....If I had Vinny's job I would be in heaven...

Posted by: AhmadGraham | January 8, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I love this hindsight is 20/20 talk. If the Redskins had taken Royal, if, if, did anyone think Royal would be that good his rookie year? I get calling the team out for blowing draft picks but to act like Eddie Royal was a sure thing is misleading.

Posted by: chirsch | January 8, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I get the general feeling that too many have given up on the rookie tandem of Thomas and Kelly. From the sound of this, they clearly need to improve this offseason. However, in defense of Thomas, he is one of the true athletes on the team. His reverse was THE most exciting and electrifying play of a very monotonous and "Medium" season. His talented needs to be better cultivated and utilized by Z and his staff. I am confident that a good preseason will push #11 into strong production. Kelly, although even more limited apparently wowed many players and coaches alike during camp. His knee problems sound more serious than some may have realized. His size is an instant matchup headache. I think his future is bright. Rookies arnt rookies forever...they grow up

Lets have some patience

Posted by: ST21RIP | January 8, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

WR is one of the most difficult positions to transition to. Be patient, one or both of the rookie WR's will pan out. Don't sign Engram. That is a complete waste. If Boldin is still crying foul in AZ this summer, the skins should think about making a trade. Otherwise, play with what we've got.

Let's let the old vets go (Springs, Washington, Griffin, Taylor). Try to fill some holes with free agency, but really we should just plan to use the draft and build our team that way. It might take a few years instead of delivering instant success. But we've tried this method for years. Let's just do what it takes to be as consistent as a team like Pittsburgh or Indy have been the last 10 years.

Take Mauluaga with the 13th pick. Fletcher has one or two good ones left, so lets plan accordingly (for once).

Posted by: brian58 | January 8, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

dpc2003 wrote: "The only thing I really haven't seen is good touch on a deep ball."

It's a good point. You haven't seen that good deep touch because it's his one weak point as a passer. No disgrace, Troy Aikman had the same problem, and he turned out all right.

You see people arguing over whether Jason is the problem or not, but things are never so clear. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. Same thing could be said of his role in the solution -- sometimes he makes the team look better than it is, and sometimes a little worse.

I also don't see much wrong with either Santana Moss or Chris Cooley (Randle El is another matter). What they need is a third receiver -- maybe you've heard me say this already -- who does what Moss and Cooley can't, which is jump up and catch the ball on the sideline or or in the end zone. Plax Burress would be fine if he wasn't certifiable. So would Antonio Gates. It's basically a basketball play.

Cornerbacks are usually short, fast guys who excel in the open field. Back when the Cowboys and the Skins were a real rivalry, Darrell Green was asked about a game where Michael Irvin torched him time and time again by simple outjumping the little fellow. Being the honest guy he is, Green replied that he had always wondered why more teams didn't try that same approach.

Jason's flat-arc passes would be pretty easy for a tall, athletic guy to pluck from the air. But Moss is short and Cooley can't jump.

Fred Davis, Kelly, Devin Thomas, or somebody else -- who cares? As long as the job gets done.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 8, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

ahmadgraham:

I wanted McMULLEN to succeed as much as anyone, but he just couldn't make catches when the ball was away from his body - a fatal flaw. Saw it time and again in the exhibition season. The REDSKINS gave him every opportunity to improve. He didn't. That's why he didn't stick anywhere else.

Posted by: glawrence007 | January 8, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm fairly sure that JLC is the victim of an errant comma in the sentence about Eddie Royal. Instead of "big, target receiver" he means "big target receiver", as in a guy who can be targeted often.

Royal caught six or more passes in eight games this past season and and in four of those, he caught nine or more. He averaged almost 11 yards per catch, which means he was good for a first down, on average, every time he caught the football. He had no catches in only one game. In every other game, he has at least two. In 13 of 16 games, he had at least one catch of more than ten yards, so he was good for at least one of the team's first downs. He had one fumble in 91 catches.

I'd say that qualifies him as a "big target".

Posted by: JimmieBise | January 8, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Bobby Engram, for his age, was also pretty darned productive. He played 13 games and 47 receptions, over three catches per game. He averaged over ten YPC, another "first down per catch" kind of guy.

In five of his 13 games he had at least one catch over 20 yards and in four others he had one over 12. In only two games did he have fewer than two catches. he was shut out once. He fumbled the ball once, but didn't lose it.

And he did all that after missing eight weeks with a broken shoulder.

I'd take him as a #3 over Thrash, even at his age.

Posted by: JimmieBise | January 8, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

List this under woulda coulda shoulda.. back in 2005 the Skins moved up to pick Campbell.. a pick or 2 after them the Falcons chose Roddy White. Roddy is going to the Pro Bowl this year. If the Skins had picked him instead not only is the WR problem fixed but with Collins and soon Colt at QB.. their QB situation would be better to..

Posted by: sovine08 | January 9, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

How can you take yourself at all seriously as a football reporter? Eddie Royal a big receiver? He's ARE's size, if that.

Keep up the great journalism, d-bag.

Posted by: TheFunBunch | January 10, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

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