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Redskins by Position: Defensive Ends

The Redskins badly need young defensive ends - and have for years - yet they pass on them as a group, generally, for entire drafts at a time while other teams restock with the next wave of Justin Tucks.

Teams don't win playoff games without solid-to-spectacular quarterback pressers - as was evident over the weekend - and don't generate even moderate pass rush in most cases without some young, dynamic ends.

Gambling on broken down (Erasmus James) or old (Jason Taylor) ends, as the Redskins have done, makes no sense any more. The problem is too acute for mere Band-Aids. Loading up on ends over multiple drafts should be a priority; establishing a good core would be much cheaper than going out and setting another spending record on someone like linebacker Terrell Suggs (not that the Ravens are likely to let the outside LB hit the market).

Andre Carter is probably entering his last season here (his contract includes a no-trade clause and has a $2.5 million bonus this offseason and $3 million bonuses in every season beyond that; I don't see them spending that kind of money on a guy who has not given them what was expected). Carter does not have a wide array of moves, is too much of a tweener to bullrush people and, with the way the ends line up, isn't fast enough to consistently beat people on the outside.

The idea was that teams would have to decide whether to double team Taylor or Carter - who combined for 7 ½ sacks - but in reality they had to double-team neither. By the end of the season either Carter or Taylor was playing basically only in the nickel package, and neither was a threat to get to the quarterback. The Bengals repeatedly called designed quarterback scrambles because they did not fear this duo.

Bringing Taylor back at $8.5 million makes no sense to me or to many of the coaches. You need a youngster there, not a procession of 30-somethings. Taylor isn't a run fit in this system; there's no room for freelancing and attacking any gap you choose and that's what Taylor does. Besides, he clearly is slowing down.

The loss of Phillip Daniels pointed out how important it is to have at least one run-stopping end in this system. Teams gashed the ends in the perimeter run game, especially down the stretch. Daniels is rehabbing well from surgery and I'd rather keep him around at $2 million, despite his age and injuries, than gamble again on Taylor. (Did they learn nothing from the latter years of the Bruce Smith debacle?)

Demetric Evans continues to build upper-body strength and plays alot like a younger version of Daniels. He is incredibly versatile - able to play all four D-line spots - and knows this system well. Re-signing him should be the priority when free agency begins Feb. 27 and I'd be very surprised if the Skins did not try to lock him up well before then, given their predicament at defensive end. He was by far their best end this season, and his ability to generate pass rush from the inside is vital to the third-down packages. If I had to pick a defensive MVP after London Fletcher, Evans would be the guy. He is certainly one of the unsung heroes on the team.

Rounding out the roster, the two young ends the Redskins carried this season are essentially the same guy - Chris Wilson (un-drafted free agent) and Rod Jackson (seventh-round pick). Both are undersized and don't project to being every-down players. Speed is their forte. Both are longshots to make a real impact, with the more realistic hope being that one turns into a Cris Clemons type on third downs. Wilson is also good on special teams, and Jackson is going to have to improve his production there.

So we're looking at a serious dearth of young talent at this key position. Perhaps Phillip Merling and Gaines Adams weren't sexy enough to take in recent years, but at some point the Redskins must devote a few high picks to this position, one that routinely has teams clamoring for players in the first round.

And the Redskins' draft history is all the more reason to select three or four of them over the next few years, with a few possibly developing into real threats. Even the best organizations often take a multi-year approach to fixing such problems. Just review the Ravens' emphasis on offensive linemen in various rounds from 2005-2008, and look at the six very good young offensive linemen they have helping a rookie QB into the playoffs. They're just one example of the importance of having a long-range plan and sticking to it.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 5, 2009; 10:48 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Redskins by Position: Defensive Tackles

Comments

1st?

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 5, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

hello?

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

what's a defensive lineman?

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I wish Wilson and R. Jackson could become specialists.

Remember Jumpy Geathers?!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

what's a lineman?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to once again state for the record that I'm in favor of going after Chris Canty, but for reasonable dollars.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

PACKERS DUMP REST OF DEFENSIVE COACHING STAFF, EXCEPT MOSS
Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2009, 10:44 a.m. EST
A day after firing defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and three days after special teams coordinator Mike Stock “retired,” the Packers reportedly have scuttled the rest of their defensive coaching staff.

Per NFP, all defensive assistants except assistant head coach/linebackers coach Winston Moss have been fired.

Gone, then, are defensive ends coach Carl Hairston, defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn, secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer, cornerbacks/nickel package coach Lionel Washington, and quality control assistant Joe Whitt, Jr.

It also has been rumored that offensive line coach James Campen could be in trouble.

The moves are somewhat stunning, given the team’s 13-3 record from 2007. But someone has to be held accountable for the collapse in 2008, and since coach Mike McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson don’t seem to be in trouble for their handling of the Brett Favre fiasco and the dark cloud it cast over the season, someone(s) else had to take the fall.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

these "skins by position:" series should be just one post. "skins by position: they suck at every position".

btw those of us who thought santa was a #1 receiver in this league were wrong. he's a good #2. he needs a #1 to thrive THE WHOLE season. his seasons here have been sporadic. as soon as teams start to pay attention to him his numbers plummet. or if the running game stops his numbers plummet.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

What he said

Posted by: Devo2 | January 5, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"Bringing Taylor back at $8.5 million makes no sense to me or to many of the coaches. You need a youngster there, not a procession of 30-somethings."

sorry but didn't Blache already say he definitely wants Taylor back? This couldn't be some sort of setup to blame it all on Vinny Cerrato whenever they bring him back, could it?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Vinny needs to change his drafting philosophy or be fired. He has set back this franchise for years.

Posted by: oscarc74 | January 5, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Pre-script to TheTruth, thanks for not ridiculing my Michigan State Spartans. Also, I agree that Knowshon Moreno is way legit. Part of me thinks he's tall enough, fast enough, and soft handed enough to play receiver.

Also, catching up, I agree that it would be a good move to trade Rogers for a draft pick. Primarily because he DOES have value ... and we need a pick for an offensive tackle, defensive tackle, or defensive end. Skins NEVER seem to trade players for picks. Its always picks for players. That said, I'm wondering whether Vinyard could pull it off.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for news on Brady. Obviously if they do tag him there is something wrong with Brady but the one year dap hit would be huge.

Flounder,

I don't know the exact details on the contract but he can't be moved. At 34, Samuels will still be one of the top 15 tackles in the league. 35, 36 will be pushing it. Guys like him play solid to 34 and sometimes beyond especially if they can stay healthy (the guys from KC and Indy). Ogden broke down just before 34 and Pace at 33 but both had more issues than Chris.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 5, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Sigh.

I have a feeling this franchise isn't going to sniff a conference championship game for a long time - probably until JC, Portis, and Moss are all too old.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Not jealous of the Ravens O-line but am of them having Ed Reed and multiple turnovers every game. Isn't there an opening at the Sun for an annoying beat reporter?

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 5, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Wow and here I thought this position would get glowing reviews....

Posted by: Gweez | January 5, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

as soon as teams start to pay attention to him his numbers plummet. or if the running game stops his numbers plummet.

Posted by: dealer1

-----

So does nearly every receiver in the league. Unless you're looking for Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, or Andre Johnson (all top 3 picks in the draft), no receiver is going to thrive the "whole season" without other credible threats opposite of him.

Santana Moss - 79 receptions, 1044 yards

Randy Moss - 69 receptions, 1008 yards

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

these "skins by position:" series should be just one post. "skins by position: they suck at every position".

btw those of us who thought santa was a #1 receiver in this league were wrong. he's a good #2. he needs a #1 to thrive THE WHOLE season. his seasons here have been sporadic. as soon as teams start to pay attention to him his numbers plummet. or if the running game stops his numbers plummet.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

How do you explain his 1500yd season in 2005 with no other WR's to complement him? I think its more the fact that you have to find him more creative ways to get him the ball then him not being a #1. He's shown he can take over games like few others can, but when you got him running 5 yard crossing routes, its hard for any #1 to be much of a factor.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 5, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Also, catching up, I agree that it would be a good move to trade Rogers for a draft pick. Primarily because he DOES have value ...

Posted by: dcsween

--------

Unless the skins come away with a mid-high 1st round pick, trading away Carlos Rogers does not provide value. Trading away Rogers for a mid-round pick just so we can replace him with the next Justin Tryon is not my idea of sound management.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Amen! There is no reason to draft anything but ol and dl in this draft. Seriously, the skins need tackles guards ends and d tackles. Linebacker and wr can be addressed in fa. Lineman lineman lineman. The NFL starts with them!!!!

Posted by: atari1317 | January 5, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

just wait two years

Malcom Kelly will be our #1 with the talent of Randy Moss
Devin Thomas will be our #2 with the talent of Terrell Owens
Santana Moss will be our #3 with the talent of Santana Moss
Antwan Randle-El will be hanging out with James Thrash watching The Redskins play on TV


REDSKINS TO THE SUPERBOWL


and don't get it twisted sween, if Georgia didn't suck all kinds of you-know-what, too, I'd laugh at Michigan State. Capital One Bowl was like getting stabbed in the eye socket. Both teams looked awful.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

This "is Moss a #1 or #2" is silly. Dude is a very good WR. If we had a legit second starter at WR, Moss would be one heckofa weapon that could be utilized in a much more directed way. #1/#2 is a tard arguement, you need two high level guys as starters period....who cares 1/2....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to see our #13 overall go to either the O-line or OLB. I lean toward OLB in the mold of a Lance Briggs/Arron Currey because I think that a vicious OLB more of a need than the O-LINE. At least if Vinnerato drafted an OLB, maybe Currey, he would start immediately. An O-Linemen would not start immediately, considering that we will not lose more than Kendall or Fabini who are old.

We need a youth movement on the O-Line, yes. But we already have FIVE O-Linemen with less than three years of experience. Why not let them play?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

btw those of us who thought santa was a #1 receiver in this league were wrong. he's a good #2. he needs a #1 to thrive THE WHOLE season. his seasons here have been sporadic. as soon as teams start to pay attention to him his numbers plummet. or if the running game stops his numbers plummet.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I think John McEnroe said it best - "You cannot be serious!!"

Dealer, this is among the most...shall we say avant-garde posts you've made. Or to put it less diplomatically, this is absurd. He had NO legit #2 WR (Cooley is a TE, he doesn't count)...ARE is a football player and I love him, but he is also 5' 9" and has lost a step. Despite that and JC's first yr in the WC off, he caught 80 balls for over 1,000 yards.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

While I agree OLB is a deep need.....I think that can be filled through free agency (Dansby, the new Ken Harvey!) and later in the draft..

Lineman on both sides must be focus of draft.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the post except I would try to milk another season out of Taylor if they can get him to reduce his salary.

Also they would've had to trade up to get Gaines Adams

Posted by: skinswest | January 5, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Any word on Buzbee?

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"Bringing Taylor back at $8.5 million makes no sense to me or to many of the coaches" - did the coaches actually discuss this with you, JLC? I find that amazingly HARD to believe.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 5, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

cause those 5 OL with less than three years of experience SUCK

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

We need a youth movement on the O-Line, yes. But we already have FIVE O-Linemen with less than three years of experience. Why not let them play?

Posted by: matthewvickers

Ouch! Bam! Thud! Crack!

That was the sound of your starting quarterback.

Posted by: driley | January 5, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Line is the problem. Not Santana. Not CP. Not JC. Remarkable compliment to Blache and the defense that they can finish 5th in total D with virtually zero pass rush. We need to add a DT, a DE and at least one O-lineman in the draft, or address at most one of these needs in f/a (only one, not a spending spree a la 2000 that got us nowhere but cap h*ll). If not this draft is a faiure, Vinny is a failure and the team will suffer. If we do address the lines, we could make a push next year. That's my story and I'm stickin to it

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

"I lean toward OLB in the mold of a Lance Briggs/Arron Currey because I think that a vicious OLB more of a need than the O-LINE"

I could not disagree with this more. OL is much more of a need than ANY other position on this team.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Hey, I hope I have to pay Not LMG $25!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Not jealous of the Ravens O-line but am of them having Ed Reed and multiple turnovers every game. Isn't there an opening at the Sun for an annoying beat reporter?

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 5, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

So its Jla's fault for pointing out that we don't have a defensive end that would start on any other team in our division, and that we haven't drafted any lineman period above the 5th round except Dockery and Rhino since 2000? As biased as most of you claim he is, is just as blind as you are. This team has no depth, continually makes the "one move away" decisions that kill its ability to field a 21-55 player decent roster, and consistently ignores that injuries are a significant part of a season by relying on a core of overpaid, over evaluated starters and then whines when one or two get hurt....they haven't built a good team here, proven by when Portis got nicked the season tanked because really, he and moss are the entire offense and have been for years, the defense couldn't get off the field when it counted in the 4th quarter because while we have an elite secondary, we only have one good player on our front seven (fletcher) and in close games (like we're always in) and with an offense that can't score quickly teams just run the ball at our ignored front seven and kill the clock on us. I know I know, I'm not a good fan for stating the obvious, but as currently comprised, if Portis isn't 100% we are 5 win team.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Any word on Buzbee?

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Looking for him to join one of the upstart minor leagues. either the UNGL or the UFL. UN

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

when i think of a #1 receiver i think of a guy who can give me a first down on 3rd and 8. 3rd and 7. a "go to" guy. moss is too much of a barry sanders for me and not enough emmit smith. you could always count on emmit to get you 4 yards meanwhile not so much with barry.

i think watching monk, rice and irvin sorta spoiled me.

yeah all discussions are tarded except for one: ineptitude of vinny!

btw...will the skins collapse begining of the season or at the end of the season next year? my guess is begining of the season.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Any word on Buzbee?

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Looking for him to join one of the upstart minor leagues. either the UNGL or the UFL. UNGL has its "draft" in a week or two.

Stuped slip of finger sending too early.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

but what are the chances that vinny will find valuable lineman in this draft considering we have a bunch of 2nd day picks? I bet our last pick will be a stud and our first a dud.

go vinny! he's our man if he can't do it, anyone else can!

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

From CFT,

REPORT: “IT’S OVER” FOR JAGODZINSKI
Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2009, 11:22 a.m. EST
Dan Patrick, who might or might not be transmogrifying into a college football reporter, reports that Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski is out, based on his decision to interview for the current head-coaching vacancy with the New York Jets.

On Sunday night, ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported that Jagodzinski had been threatened with termination if he went through with the interview.

Patrick, citing an unnamed source, had said that Jagodzinski would interview for the Jets job on Monday night and Tuesday, despite the threat of termination.

The next question becomes whether Jagodzinksi is entitled to the balance of his contract at Boston College.

Our guess is that, unless interviewing for the Jets job constitutes “cause” for firing him, the Eagles will be on the hook for the rest of the money.

The school likely will be reduced by Jagodzinski’s salary from his next coaching job. And if he gets the job in New York, he likely will make even more money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I'd def rather OL/DL over OLB in the draft. You can get good/decent OLBs in FA on the cheap generally. You pay for OL/DL. (See one Dockery)

Posted by: Gweez | January 5, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

BC, apparently run by complete fools.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

WHERE ARE ALL FOOTBALL GAMES WON & LOST???
In the trenches...

Have the Redskins truly drafted, traded, and coached players to win in the trenches on the defensive side of the ball???

Who is the last Defensive lineman to register 10 sacks in a season as a Redskins??

The Redskins will never experience the success they desire until Zorn & Blanche honestly address the defensive line.

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Watching the Ravens play yesterday was the very best example of why you need a pass rush. It is no secret that the pass rush creates turnovers. Blache's defense was the very best band aid defense that the Redkskins could put on the field, but because of the lack of turnovers it will not be a "scoring" defense which is what the best defenses do. Teams can win with the kind of offense that Zorn has now (which does not turn the ball over) but you have to have a Raven's type of defense to do it. If the Cerrato were to draft a defensive lineman or linebacker with his #1 pick I would not complain.

Posted by: driley | January 5, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Carter had 10.5 sacks a season ago (2007)

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Vinny would be a great GM for a flag football league.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I have to believe that Buges can coach some of these young guys up and out of the five maybe two become main stays over the next few years? It may be the safest bet to draft an O-Linemen (E.Monroe type), someone that can start ASAP but I hated watching opposing offenses run the clock out on us down the stretch. Maybe someone like Matt Sinclair steps up next season? Either way there are far too many holes that can be filled between the draft and FA. We need to build from within, with what little talent we do have.

Totally against trading Rogers away.
J.Taylor is not worth 8 Mill.
Springs is not worth 8 Full games.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Who is the last Defensive lineman to register 10 sacks in a season as a Redskins??

The Redskins will never experience the success they desire until Zorn & Blanche honestly address the defensive line.

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 11:54 AM |

Carter last year.

Zorn and Blache have little say in the players they get.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Carter was mad disappointing this year. After the 07 season I really thought he could be an 8-12 a year sack dude for us for the balance of his contract. He just looked useless this season.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins, sadly are closer to Miami of 2007 than Miami of 2008.

The Redskins have serious needs--if not this year in a year or two-- at EVERY position except safety.

So let's shoot the messenger.

All this "JLA has sources, JLA doesn't have sources" stuff is irrelevant. I have NO sources, and I knew this team was in trouble at DE the once Daniels went down and they overspent for JT.

How did I know Taylor was through? Partly because he's old, undersized and distracted. But MOSTLY because guys like Vinny Cerrato don't outwit guys like Bill Parcells.

That's the issue. You fic the Redskins by replacing the guy making the bad news, not the one bringing it.

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS

James Harrison, the best player on the NFL’s best defense, has won The Associated Press 2008 Defensive Player of the Year award.
The linebacker who had a career-high 16 sacks, setting a team record, and led the NFL with a career-high seven forced fumbles, beat Dallas’ DeMarcus Ware in balloting by a nationwide panel of 50 sports writers and broadcasters announced Monday. Pittsburgh’s latest version of the Steel Curtain was the league’s stingiest in total defense, pass defense and points allowed. -- Associated Press

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 5, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Carter is signed through 2013. Carter and Taylor will both be back next year... I'm not sure you resign Evans. He's just average and there might be a better free agent available. Either Jackson or Buzbee will take over for Wilson. I'd bring Daniels into camp and have him complete against a draftee or free agent. At 36 -- I'm not sure the team can count on him to stay healthy and it's risky when only four DEs make the final roster.

In my opinion, the DEs were not the entire problem with the pass rush this season. It didn't help that Taylor, Daniels, and Buzbee were injured. However, the DTs were not capable of collapsing the pocket and putting pressure on the opposing o-line/QB. In addition, the linebackers and safeties failed to generate pressure with zone blitzes. I bet the existing DEs would have been much more effective with healthier DTs, LBs, and S.

If you sign Suggs, then it would be as a SLB to replace Washington and not as DE to replace Carter or Taylor.

Finally, I don't buy JLCs argument that undersized DEs (ie. ~250-260 lbs) cannot play the run. They are fast and often either tackle the RB in the backfield or contribute as part of a 3 or 4 person tackling team.

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

+++If the Cerrato were to draft a defensive lineman or linebacker with his #1 pick I would not complain.

Posted by: driley+++


Me neither until opening day when he sat on the bench while Cerrato's defenders claimed you can't really call the guy a bust for another three years

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"But MOSTLY because guys like Vinny Cerrato don't outwit guys like Bill Parcells."


Smartest coment of the day

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Interesting stats:

(1) Carter was disappointing in comparison to last year.

He still, however, led all our defensive linemen in tackles, sacks, and tackles for loss.

(2) Jason Campbell was second on the team in rushing yards with 258.

(3) Outside of Santana Moss, only one Redskin caught a pass of 30 yards or more. That was Randle El, and it went for 31 yards.

(4) Jason Taylor had 9 passes defensed. Andre Carter, Cornelius Griffin, Kedrick Golston, Anthony Montgomery, Demetric Evans, Lorenzo Alexander, Chris Wilson, Rob Jackson, and Ryan Boschetti combined for 8 passes defensed.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I bet the existing DEs would have been much more effective with healthier DTs, LBs, and S.

If you sign Suggs, then it would be as a SLB to replace Washington and not as DE to replace Carter or Taylor.

Finally, I don't buy JLCs argument that undersized DEs (ie. ~250-260 lbs) cannot play the run. They are fast and often either tackle the RB in the backfield or contribute as part of a 3 or 4 person tackling team.

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Vinny undercover?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Zorn and Blache have little say in the players they get.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:00 PM

Zorn and Blache have a major influence on whether the team and players improve during season. The defensive line certainly has not.

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

WHERE ARE ALL FOOTBALL GAMES WON & LOST???
In the trenches...

___

Precisely

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

James Harrison 16 sacks, once upon a time we envisioned this being LaVar Arrington didn't we...what a waste

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Zorn and Blache have a major influence on whether the team and players improve during season. The defensive line certainly has not.

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 12:15 PM |

You can only do so much with a turd, you can not make it into a diamond.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

With just a few draft picks this year (thanks to ill advised trades....again), I really think we are looking at a two year re-build at the least (given the Vinsters untouchable draft record so far...). Between O line, D line and L backer, we take the best still on the board and get some mid-priced FA's and see what comes our way next year.

I don't see getting much for Carlos, and I don't see how we replace him given Smoot's demise and Springs injury record.

Posted by: edvar | January 5, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Someone to cross check how many of our offensive players had worse stats than Ed Reed (TD/Catches (INT)/Yards)

b/c I need a good cry....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

James Harrison 16 sacks, once upon a time we envisioned this being LaVar Arrington didn't we...what a waste

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:15 PM |

Nope never thaught LaVar could be that, you have to play a 3-4 for a LB to get that many sacks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

So what do you think was difference that allowed Carter to get 10.5 sacks two years ago and this year?

I suspect injuries to Daniels, Taylor, Griffin, Golston, Doughty, and Washington were the main cause and not the loss of Gregg Williams...

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Another interesting stat, while Philly has no Santanna Moss, they have a group of no name guys that combined for over 197 catches for 2,618 yards and 11 TD's. That doesn't even take into account the other 1500 yds,12 td's that went to the backs and TE. Someday maybe Snyderatto will figure out that a QB and protecting that QB makes for good receivers, not the other way around. And I'm sorry but your QB is among the league leaders in sacks taken for the season. However, 13 TD's in a 16 game season aint great either. JC is STILL a work in progress, to me, he gets one more year cause it doesn't really matter who is back there if we can't protect.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

James Harrison 16 sacks, once upon a time we envisioned this being LaVar Arrington didn't we...what a waste

Posted by: go88car

-------

Precisely the reason a "playmaking" linebacker is not necessary. Playmaking LBs have no place in our extreme-discipline system. No matter who you bring in, he's going to end up being a "disappointment" as long as the defensive line remains in the same state.

I don't know what JLC is talking about when he says Gregg's system was predicated on the LBs. It's not. It's predicated on a pocket-collapsing DT. When Griffin was/is that guy, we are dominant. When he's not, we struggle. That's need #1 on the defensive side of the ball.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

So what do you think was difference that allowed Carter to get 10.5 sacks two years ago and this year?

I suspect injuries to Daniels, Taylor, Griffin, Golston, Doughty, and Washington were the main cause of the decreased production and not the loss of Gregg Williams or a regression of skills...

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Gaines Adams went before Landry in the '07 draft. He wasn't available at our selection. We passed on Jamaal Anderson, Adam Carriker, and Amobi Okoye.

Jamaal Anderson- 2 sacks in 2 seasons
Amobi Okoye- 6.5 sacks in 2 season
Adam Carriker- 2 sacks in 2 seasons

Although D-Line has been a need, this is the argument for taking the best player available. None of the d-lineman taken in the range of our selection of Landry have amounted to much at all.

Posted by: Oz99 | January 5, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

we need to suck it up, and fortify the lines with guys like Samuels by drafting several key young guys and bring in a couple of FA's over the next two years. We need to take the approach of a 4-5 year plan that first drafts and adds key role players to the trenches in the first two years. Then we begin to draft and add key role players to the skilled positions in the two to three years following. We should be in position to win playoff games in years 3-4. And by the way, we could already have a QB not named JC(although I like him for now) to take the reigns of such an approach. The only thing we would need to do is stick to our guns of drafting for need and not the most gifted athlete available at whatever position unless it's a pure no brainer. My only fear is that if we don't turn things around next year, we will be sitting in the same position and finally ready to admit we need a different approach. Then Snyder would probably relegate Cerrato back to being his cap manager and not the General Manager.

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Jason or Cindy, comment on the weekend's playoff games!! I miss the H-Back!

Posted by: wp11234 | January 5, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"None of the d-lineman taken in the range of our selection of Landry have amounted to much at all.

Posted by: Oz99"

6.5 sacks in 2 seasons for a DT is not too shabby (especially for a guy who just now turned 21). On the flipside, Anthony Montgomery and Kedrick Golston have combined for 6.5 sacks in 6 totals years in the league. And those are guys we consider bright spots.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I have a feeling this franchise isn't going to sniff a conference championship game for a long time - probably until JC, Portis, and Moss are all too old.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2009 11:28 AM

Except for Campbell, Moss and Portis are already old. They need to be traded away for picks.

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

+++If the Cerrato were to draft a defensive lineman or linebacker with his #1 pick I would not complain.

Posted by: driley+++


Me neither until opening day when he sat on the bench while Cerrato's defenders claimed you can't really call the guy a bust for another three years

Posted by: TheCork

My stress level went up noticeably when I typed the part about 'Cerrato drafting'. It also goes up when I read about 'Cerrato trading' and 'Cerrato signing'.

Posted by: driley | January 5, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

6.5 sacks in 2 seasons for a DT is not too shabby (especially for a guy who just now turned 21). On the flipside, Anthony Montgomery and Kedrick Golston have combined for 6.5 sacks in 6 totals years in the league. And those are guys we consider bright spots.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

LOL

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I think the argument for taking the best player available stacks up, but trading away picks for players does not. But you could argue that the Skins didn't really draft the best player available in this last draft (I'm thinking of the 2nd round).

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Campbell, Moss and Portis are already old"

Campbell...? dam I am ancient then!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

But you could argue that the Skins didn't really draft the best player available in this last draft (I'm thinking of the 2nd round).

Posted by: dadanimal

-------

IMO, that is the ONLY explanation for drafting 3 guys with the same basic skillset in mind.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Except for Campbell, Moss and Portis are already old. They need to be traded away for picks.

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

No team in the league would take Portis' contract or Moss' for that matter, and regardless we couldn't do it because of the cap hit anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Was Cris Clemons, the DE from the Eagles, drafted by us? Didn't he have a brother,Nic?

Posted by: shanteefamilee | January 5, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The one thing I believe is that snyder wants to win badly and eventually he will. My hope for all of us skin fans who have endured is that we manage to get things figured out this off season. If not then I sure do hope Snyder finally turns things over to a gm who understands football. Im not sure we have pure football guys running the franchise and that may be the biggest problem in itself. Even old Jack Kent Cooke realized he needed a great football GM running the show. I guess we will see, Im hoping our boys can turn this ship around with the current regime.

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"Campbell, Moss and Portis are already old"

Campbell...? dam I am ancient then!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:33 PM

I said except for Campbell....

Anyway, Portis has way too much mileage and can't last the season. Moss always has some girly hamstring issue...besides really being just a #2 receiver.

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I think the argument for taking the best player available stacks up, but trading away picks for players does not. But you could argue that the Skins didn't really draft the best player available in this last draft (I'm thinking of the 2nd round).

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

EXACTLY! that is the arrogance of Vinny's statement to begin with. His opinion that you don't draft for need you draft for best player available inherently assumes that he is capable of identifying the sure fire best talent available in the draft. And if anybody's record has shown that he isn't capable of properly evaluating talent its Vinny.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

No team in the league would take Portis' contract or Moss' for that matter, and regardless we couldn't do it because of the cap hit anyway.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:37 PM

Okay then...let's just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get the same result!

Other GMs seem to be able to rip off Snyderatto....why can't we?

What other team in the league is almost as big a sucker as the Skins?

The CowTurds!!!!

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Moss is a number 1 as long as he has an o-line, complimentary number 2 and about a dozen other roster needs that are too long to list

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Siris != Vinny Cerrato...

I just want to make that clear!

Do I think Cerrato made mistakes? Yes, certainly:

He could have improved the depth of the backup players, paid more attention to special teams, replaced the strength coaches, and addressed the aging players last year. The coaching hiring was bizarre, but I'm not sure how much of that was due to Cerrato vs. Snyder...

As part of the hiring triumvirate (Synder, Cerrato, and Zorn/Gibbs) he's tasked with evaluating talent and recommending players. I think he's done a decent job in that area. I would never expect any team to hit 100% on draft picks or free agents...

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

knight,

If we could find someone dumb enough to take portis in a trade, the cap hit would prevent us from fielding a team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

siris,

Are you saying Vinny is charged with recommending players, and if so to who. Vinny is now the man he does'nt recommend players he gets players recommended to him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

There is one thing the Dolphins and Falcons have both shown us...A team can turn things around quickly if you give it over to the experts who know what they are doing...Im not saying that vinny and dan cant get us going, but it sure is looking more and more like thats the case

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse


Was Cris Clemons, the DE from the Eagles, drafted by us? Didn't he have a brother,Nic?

Posted by: shanteefamilee | January 5, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Yes, FA undrafted LB in 2003. He was released after tearing his ACL.

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Was Cris Clemons, the DE from the Eagles, drafted by us? Didn't he have a brother,Nic?


yes!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

yep, we had Clemmons for a year or two...pretty glad we let him go...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Moss provides exactly what you want from a #1 receiver. He consistently draws double-teams, he occasionally makes plays even with double teams, and he always makes a defense pay for single-covering him.

His "problem" comes because there is nobody else on the roster that even comes close to replicating that. If there was even one other receiver that could consistently beat single coverage, teams would have to choose between stacking the box or doubling both receivers. That would open up the offense tremendously.

Of course, that is also predicated on the offensive line being able to open holes against a seven man front, and being able to protect JC from a 4 man rush. Neither of which were done with any consistency this past season.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

ed reed had more catches and TD's this season than all of skins rookie receivers combined AND he had to learn 16 different offenses. in a season.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

".Im not saying that vinny and dan cant get us going, but it sure is looking more and more like thats the case"

I will say it...they can't.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

WHAT IS THE #1 CAUSE OF INJURIES????

Poor conditioning and training...

The Redskins conditioning and training program is a atrocious... If we are stuck with many of the same players next year, then our physical conditioning must improve...

I have never seen soooo many soft looking defense players as I did this year... Not to mention many were winded before the 2nd quarter started...

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

my case in point...now can we leave Santana alone just because he is not in the mold of the tall fast receivers that people fall in love with...didn't santana have more yards than most of them this year on a team that had a worse record...put it to rest...SANTANA IS A CLEAR CUT #1

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

...Im not saying that vinny and dan cant get us going, but it sure is looking more and more like thats the case Posted by: go88car

when did this start to dawn on you that maybe vinny and danny didn't know what they were doing?

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Okay then...let's just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get the same result!

Other GMs seem to be able to rip off Snyderatto....why can't we?

What other team in the league is almost as big a sucker as the Skins?

The CowTurds!!!!

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I have argued on here at length about doing things differently and about how much Snyder and Vinny suck. But you can't just cut or trade guys that we have given bonus money or guaranteed money to already just because you want to. That's water under the bridge and we are stuck with CP and Tanna for at least next year and probably two years. What we can do is cut Taylor
Springs
Washington
Griffen
ARE
Thrash

resign Rogers and Hall (starting tandem for 4 or 5 years, it is ridiculous to trade a decent corner you took 9th overall for at best a mid round pick leaving you with an injury prone springs, a declining Smoot, and a project Tryon)

Don't waste decent money on Evans who is a journey man at best, bring Daniels back, make a run at a reasonably priced FA like Canty, and a couple of reasonable FA's at LB, see what it takes for Haynesworth if it is "biggest contract for a DT ever" type thing forget about it. Draft a DT in round 1 and go Oline with your other picks.

Last piece, sign Bobby Engram, a big productive vet receiver who is a UFA from Seattle who knows the system but is cheap cause of an injury last year but had a nice last few games and is healthy now, at the very very worst he gives you a good season and helps his body double Malcolm Kelly learn the system/position. Round out the rest of the positions (5th corner behind Hall, Rogers, Smoot, Tryon, 5th WR behind Moss, Engram, Thomas, Kelly,) with undrafted FA's or cheap vets. Then in 2010 if there's no cap you can cut or trade all of the crappy contracts that have been handed out of the last 3 years or if the is a new collective bargaining agreement you can still start to shed some of the contracts (R. Thomas, Jansen, Portis, Moss, Carter, Samuels) that you need to get rid of.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

but you're so sure that santa is #1. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

thanks dealer...

Again with the Moss #1????? Last time I checked you need to have two starting WRS...who is 1 or 2 is irrelevant.....

We have only (at this time...)1 legit starting WR...Moss...and that sad fact diminishes his impact.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

"SANTANA IS A CLEAR CUT #1"

Im not saying he is the best receiver in the league, and that if we managed to pick up a better receiver he couldn't be relegated to a #2. Im just saying if we picked up a better receiver than Moss then we would essentially have two #1's.

Isn't this what we have been coveting all along...

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"WHAT IS THE #1 CAUSE OF INJURIES????
Poor conditioning and training..."

Oh I thought it was violently colliding with 250 pound super athletes every play while playing on concrete hard grass/carpet surfaces...silly me.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"SANTANA IS A CLEAR CUT #1"

Im not saying he is the best receiver in the league, and that if we managed to pick up a better receiver he couldn't be relegated to a #2. Im just saying if we picked up a better receiver than Moss then we would essentially have two #1's.

Isn't this what we have been coveting all along...

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what you call him? He's the only good receiver we have and his contract means he aint going anywhere, stop wasting the energy arguing about how good he is....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

cindy, would you please be kind enough to tell us your lil minions schedule for the week ;)...so we know what to expect...

every morning the first thing i do is ask for forgiveness from the all mighty and then refresh my ri page hoping that there's a new thread titled "bye bye vinny" or "vinny is fired" or "madoff scandal hits snyder HARD and forced to sell the team"...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Dealer....I keep reading that other money managers were pulling Madoff's and that others may be uncovered soon...so even if its not Madoff....

On the other hand a few more Madoff size scandals on top our economy and we all may be eating goverment cheese....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what you call him? He's the only good receiver we have and his contract means he aint going anywhere, stop wasting the energy arguing about how good he is....

My whole point has been that we should stop arguing about how good Moss is and focus on the real problem areas of this team...nice try???

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what JLC is talking about when he says Gregg's system was predicated on the LBs. It's not. It's predicated on a pocket-collapsing DT. When Griffin was/is that guy, we are dominant. When he's not, we struggle. That's need #1 on the defensive side of the ball.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 12:23 PM

I agree with this statement. Daniels was to provide push this year before he went down. The skins have to find someone (Daniels, maybe Evans if he continues to ulk up, FA, draft choice) to push the middle.

Posted by: TWISI | January 5, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

but you're so sure that santa is #1. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: dealer1

-----

On quite possibly one of the worst offenses in the league, Santana Moss ended the season as the 13th best receiver in yards and the 15th best receiver in receptions. There are 64 starting WRs in the league.

In both categories, he's in the top quarter of the league of starting WRs, ahead of more than half of the other "#1" WRs.

He also had the same amount of TDs as Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, and Reggie Wayne.

Who do you consider a "#1"? TJ Houshmandzadeh -- who ended up with 904 yards and 4 TDs? How about Terrell Owens and Randy Moss -- who ended up with 69 catches each, and 1052 and 1008 yards respectively?

Moss is a #1. Get over it.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

CL, did you notice my stellar paragraph structuring of my offseason plan? That was all for you...

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Good stuff Z-Jack.......from your finger pads to Vinny's ears....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

CL, did you notice my stellar paragraph structuring of my offseason plan? That was all for you...

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 1:05 PM

Yeah, let's bring in old bobby Engram, that will give up a good compliment to Moss...NOT!!

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

A belated Happy New Year, hamsters. Been away from the blog for about 10 days and spent the morning catching up.


I have nothing of value to add at the moment.


Oh, wait. Yes I do:

F DALLAS!

Posted by: freakzilla | January 5, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

my case in point...now can we leave Santana alone just because he is not in the mold of the tall fast receivers that people fall in love with...didn't santana have more yards than most of them this year on a team that had a worse record...put it to rest...SANTANA IS A CLEAR CUT #1

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 12:52 PM

Yeah...a #1 that can't beat the jam. A #1 that drops 3rd down passes. A #1 that took himself out of the Green Bay game in 2007 because the ball kept hitting him the face mask and his hands weren't quick enough to block it...a #1 with a chronically pulled hamstring....a #1 who's best days were 3 long, long years ago.....

Time to go 1-15 and build through the draft and maybe find some real players.

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

have nothing of value to add at the moment.


Oh, wait. Yes I do:

F DALLAS!
Posted by: freakzilla | January 5, 2009 1:10 PM

all those in favor say "F Dallas"

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Time to go 1-15 and build through the draft and maybe find some real players.
Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:11 PM

This is about the only comment I agree with in terms of facing the rebuilding monster. Im putting to rest the WR debate.
We wont do it because Snyder is more content with fielding a wanna-be-competitive team than admitting he needs to give up control.

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

deal, being a lions fan maybe you can answer this. How did Matt Millen warrent a spot on the NBC Halftime show?? I'm going to assume that security was asleep at the switch?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The people that think either Clinton Portis or Santana Moss are the problem with this team are the same people that think Antawn Jamison and his 20 pts, 10 rebounds are the source of the Wizards problems.

Alright, I think my day on the blog is done.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

F Dallas.

Trade Cerrato for Cowboy Chris.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Nation, we have truly spiraled down! I conclude that we can only focus now on one thing and that's the upcoming draft. This is our best hope of beginning to turn things around...Ugh..more thoughts of cerrato making up a draft board...shoot me now

Posted by: go88car | January 5, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

deal, being a lions fan maybe you can answer this. How did Matt Millen warrent a spot on the NBC Halftime show?? I'm going to assume that security was asleep at the switch?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 1:18 PM

Maybe we'll get lucky and Cerrato will get fired and hired by NBC. Then we'll have the pleasure of seeing the TWO WORST GMs in modern NFL history debate about who's right!

Now that is worth my time....the lead in will be " welcome to the New NFL Comedy Segment Starring Cerrato and Millen!"

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

greg, OMG!!! i was going to say the exact same thing when i saw him. he looked soooooooooooo out of place. and i thought he looked nervous.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

One thing that just depressed me watching the NBC broadcast was when Millen said "it all starts and ends on the lines"

Cerrato does not even understand that!

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse


Millen: Mike Williams and Charles Rogers were sure bets! You even told me you had them at the top of your board.

Cerrato: nuh uh....Danny told me they weren't that good...anyways, you had Taylor Jacobs ranked as a top 10 pick on your board, I know cuz I watched it on ESPN...and you wanted to trade with me for the pick, so there!

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

deal, of course he looked out of place, he should have been over at Ford Field prepping to draft another WR with BOTH their first round picks.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

what's that age old wisdom about being the best on a bad team??

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I don't see the reason for all the doom and gloom. Thankfully the season is over and now the offseason begins. By my calculations the Redskins are well poised to win the offseason yet again. They lost their championship spot last year due to some uncharacteristic restraint but I see a return to the league off-season championship form of the previous 2 years. Also last year's draft showing gives hope that this is not a one dimensional offseason team but one that can be effective at generating light but no heat in all three categories - ill-advised trades, expensive low-impact player acquisitions, and bizarre draft choices. Needless to say, if we can win this offseason we will surely be labelled as one of the all-time offseason dynasties - maybe a spot in Madden '10 awaits?

Posted by: zornskins2 | January 5, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

One thing that just depressed me watching the NBC broadcast was when Millen said "it all starts and ends on the lines"

Cerrato does not even understand that!

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:31

Millen did not get it either, otherwise he would not have wasted 4 straight high first round picks on WR.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I'd def rather OL/DL over OLB in the draft. You can get good/decent OLBs in FA on the cheap generally. You pay for OL/DL. (See one Dockery)

Posted by: Gweez | January 5, 2009 11:54 AM

THANK YOU !!
This is what I have been screaming on here for months !!
For everyone on here yapping about drafting a LB in the 1st, no way.
The 2 positions in the NFL with the most abundance of talent is RB & LB agreed ?

People getting massive contracts in the FA market are OL's, QB's , DE's & Shutdown CB's.....so you try to draft these kinds of players in the 1st round to get them locked up on rookie contract money..... which in turn gives you cap space to pursue players for depth and plugging holes ( see Redskins LB & DT situation)
Drafting LB's in the 1st round that you can get on the cheap in the FA market ( see Shawn Barber & soon to be Karlos Dansby) while signing Asante Samuels, Derrick Dockery's & Julius Peppers type players to over-inflated contracts is just foolish !

Does anyone here think that Karlos Dansby is going to fetch more money than say.....Panthers OT Jordan Gross ?
Who here thinks a Jordan Gross will get Derrick Dockery type money ? Chances are he will probably get more.
Enough of this OLB in the 1st round talk. There are lots of good talent available at LB every year.
Draft O-Line in the 1st.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 5, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"WHAT IS THE #1 CAUSE OF INJURIES????
Poor conditioning and training..."

Oh I thought it was violently colliding with 250 pound super athletes every play while playing on concrete hard grass/carpet surfaces...silly me.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:59 PM |

You may want to bounce your assumption off coachs and players when you have an opportunity ChrissLarry...

Fact#1: In football, the only Bulwark against violent collisions is training and conditioning.

Fact #2: Playing surfaces quality, shoe quality, cleat length, and equipment quality are elements that influence injury probability. They do not cause injuries.

I acknowledge a lot of factors can influence injuries. But, in the one-on-one matches that football is based on, its the guy that is better conditioned and trained that can avoid injury and ultimately, WIN.

Again, its this training and conditioning that the Redskins MUST improve on. Thats why we can stop the run in the 4th quater. Thats why we can not run the ball effectively in the 4th quater. Thats why we had sooo many injuries this year.

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

zornskin, i don't see skins being THAT active in the off-season. danny won't go for it. or at least i'm hoping he won't go for vinny's "dan, i screwed up last year...let me change my philosphy to half draft and half free agency..."...

i really want to believe dan's had enough of vinny as well...

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Millen did not get it either, otherwise he would not have wasted 4 straight high first round picks on WR.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

But at least he can say that, when Vinny's only comment on the lines is "I don't like spending high picks on the lines"

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

deal, what kind of cap space do the lions have going into this offseason??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

i'm having a really hard time deciding who's going to win iggles vs. gints game this weekend. iggles have the #3 ranked defense in the league. and they beat the gints pretty good the last time. but i don't think jacobs was healthy. i can't imagine a line of more than 4 points for this game.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse


Some choice Cerrato picks.....

2002

1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey

3 14 79 Rashad Bauman CB

3 22 87 Cliff Russell WR

5 24 159 Andre Lott S

6 20 192 Reggie Coleman OT

2003

2 12 44 Taylor Jacobs WR

2004 Gibbs and Vinny and Little Prick Dan

5 19 151 Mark Wilson

6 15 180 Jim Molinaro

2005

1 9 9 Carlos Rogers CB

1 25 25 Jason Campbell QB

4 19 120 Manuel White FB

5 18 154 Robert McCune LB

6 9 183 Jared Newberry

7 222 Nehemiah Broughton

2006 (complete garbage)

2 3 35 Rocky McIntosh

5 20 153 Anthony Montgomery DT
6 4 173 Reed Doughty

6 27 196 Kedric Golston DT
7 22 230 Kili Lefotu G
7 42 250 Kevin Simon LB

2007

1 6 6 LaRon Landry (good) S Louisiana State

5 6 143 Dallas Sartz LB Southern California

6 5 179 H. B. Blades LB Pittsburgh

6 31 205 Jordan Palmer QB Texas-El Paso

2008 well, we all know how that turned out.....

7 6 216 Tyler Ecker TE Michigan

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"WHAT IS THE #1 CAUSE OF INJURIES????
Poor conditioning and training..."

Oh I thought it was violently colliding with 250 pound super athletes every play while playing on concrete hard grass/carpet surfaces...silly me.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 12:59 PM


Close.

The answer is "Chuck Norris." We also would have accepted "Leigh Torrence."


Bonus points to tcmullins for using the word "bulwark" in a sentence.

Posted by: freakzilla | January 5, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Did we really have more injuries than most other clubs, or were we just devoid of depth in which to survive the injuries we had...??

Was our failure in the 4th quarter conditioning or lack of talent.

Maybe we are just one stud trainer away from being good?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

greg, lions aren't worried about their cap. they don't need to, to field a better team than the skins next year.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

But at least he can say that, when Vinny's only comment on the lines is "I don't like spending high picks on the lines"

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:43

When did he say that, show me where that is in print.

Millen has no right to comment on any other GM he was terrible. Show me how many starting OL Millen drafted.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Although D-Line has been a need, this is the argument for taking the best player available. None of the d-lineman taken in the range of our selection of Landry have amounted to much at all.

Posted by: Oz99 | January 5, 2009 12:25 PM

If the 'Skins actually had taken the best player available it wouldn't have been Laron Landry, but Adrian Peterson.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

#1 cause of injuries ... eating government cheese.

The Skins desperately need draft picks. Because you can't BUY draft picks, you have to trade players. No one wants to trade for junk (with the exception of the Jawas in the first Star Wars) and no one wants to trade for a player with huge existing contract numbers. That means the only trade-worthy guys are (1) young, (2) under contract, and (3) not critical roster-wise. By that math, I think Carlos Rogers is trade worthy. Maybe a second round pick (and hopefully another late round pick). I think the "keep Springs" idea (as a spare free safety) makes a ton of sense b/c behind Landry (who really should be freer to play SS), I don't see alot of depth at FS that is ready to be on the roster on Week One ... esp. someone with experience (which might be necessary if Jerry Gray/Steve Jackson take jobs elsewhere).

My fervent hope is that

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Matt Millen should be on TV! That is where he is good. He was the best color guy going before he went to GM.

I can't hate on Millen...he took a chance, was in over his head and failed. Ford was to cheap to pull the trigger 3 years ago.

I thought Millen was a straight up dude on the NBC show and answered some tough questions. He could have stayed home and hid, but he faced the music. He gets props for that.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Flounder.
Not saying Millen is any good but it would be great to have the two be given a head to head opportunity in terms of building a team. I mean if they both were given the same amounts of money and stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Also I have no clue when Vinny said that someone on the blog mentioned it a while ago.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

If Cerrato is spending #13 on the OLine then I am buying. Just hope it isn't a reach at that juncture of the draft. We gotta protect the QB better next season.

I would argue that our DTs are good quality tackles - sure run stuffers especially, and as position of need goes -- LB is the first after O-Line. The DEs are in much better shape than the LBs and if projected as Daniels,Evans, Carter, Buzbee, Jackson&Wilson then, IMO, the DL is better off than the LB corps. We need an OLB, with sure coverage abilities, to have five sacks and be accountable to stop the run in the fourth quarter.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Steinberg talked to some Redskins about their offseason plans....warning: you're not going to like part of Smoot's plan.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/01/the_skins_offseason_eat_sushi.html#more

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 5, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Did we really have more injuries than most other clubs, or were we just devoid of depth in which to survive the injuries we had...??

Was our failure in the 4th quarter conditioning or lack of talent.

Maybe we are just one stud trainer away from being good?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, the trainer argument is idiotic....we were surprisingly healthy this year. The guys who always are hurt Springs, Griffin, and Washington were hurt....not a big shock....Taylor, an old undersized end got hurt...not a big shock....Jansen got hurt again...not a big shock....Thomas stayed healthy....really big shock...we got 16 games out of Kendal...a big shock...Samuels missed a few games...not a big shock he's an older tackle.....we got 16 games out of CP, JC, Cooley, and our receiving corps, I don't think any other team in the league can say that not a single one of their skill position starters played every game...we have no reason to complain about injuries at all! We have every reason to complain that we have no depth whatsoever on the oline or front seven. Every well built team in the league has 6 to 7 good players on their Dlines (four starters caliber players and 2 or 3 quality backups) and 7 to 8 good players on the Oline (5 starters and a decent backup at tackle, guard, and/or center) we have 2 quality starters on oline (Samuels and Kendal) and 2 on our front 7 (Fletcher and Griffen when healthy which hasn't been since 2005) other than that we have backup level talent starting and practice squad talent as backups.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Did we really have more injuries than most other clubs, or were we just devoid of depth in which to survive the injuries we had...??

Was our failure in the 4th quarter conditioning or lack of talent.

Maybe we are just one stud trainer away from being good?

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 1:46 PM |

All your questions are difficult to answer...

My approach to solve our problems is to get every player strong and in shape like Andre Carter and coach them all as hard as possible. Then the talent level of a player will be crystal clear.

Right now, its impossible to tell if our problem is conditioning or talent. Some starters (like Carter) are in shape and others are not (like Evans). During the game, some starters (like Evans) get alot of coaching and others (like Taylor) do not.

I love the Redskins like you but its sad to see our team bleeding to death because we can't get the fundamentals right...

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins need this man. His name is Taylor Mays (#2 on USC). 6'3" 230, 4.28 40 , a junior may be available this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd7m3QtQJus

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

you can't deny mays is a great, great talent, that would be considered a luxury, and right now the team can afford no such thing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

safety? No thanks....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

you can't deny mays is a great, great talent, that would be considered a luxury, and right now the team can afford no such thing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, we have two starting safeties, our problem is we also only have two starting level oline, 1 starting LB, and one starting Dlineman, we need to fix that before we worry about having three starting safeties.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Drafting Mays would highlight exactly what is wrong with this franchise.

Of course, we could take him and revel in the fact that we have a 13th pro-bowl caliber player on our roster, despite staying at 8-8....

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Whether Jason likes it or not. There is far more "healthy" youth on the d-line than there is on the OL. Outside of Heyer and Rhinehart what do they really have? Nothing. Nada. Zero.

With FOUR draft picks and an OL rich draft you have to use everyone on this position and use FA (Haynesworth) for the D-line. YOUR QB is getting hammered. He needs protection first. The D can get a long with a few FA pickups. And in the end the reputation of this "D" and its ranking should make it more attractive to potential FA's than the tattered, torn, and aging "O".

After that you HAVE TO DRAFT a kicker. They have had success drafting kickers in the past.

Finally, there is one thing that Daniel Snyder appears to be very, very good at. And that is selecting defensive coordinators. All down the line from the beginning he has done a superb job with this. Let's give credit where credit is due.


At DE they do have Wilson, the do have Jackson, they do have Evans, they do have Daniels coming back if that's what you want. They do have Montgomery and Golston. And Taylor did seem to be very effective at the end and apparently Jason ignores the fact that Blache came out with public plea to keep his services? Its seems quite contradictory to say "coaches" think he is too old when THE COACH and the D-line specialist likes what he has.

Who finished with the 4th best defense in the league? Jason LaCanfora or Blache?

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if he's a luxury: yes the team is fairly well off at that position, because Chris Horton was an unexpected gem: a guy who knew the system very well and benefited from that knowledge.

Since he's undrafted, the Redskins may be able to trade Horton easily: no cap room, proven young commodity. Probably get a 2nd round pick, maybe third?

Whereas, if you get Mays, he's a potential HOF guy. Early in his career at USC, there were concerns that he played a little soft. Not anymore.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

If they lose Carlos this guy may be their pick if it isn't Mickens. They need more picks if they do something like this with that pick.

"The Redskins need this man. His name is Taylor Mays (#2 on USC). 6'3" 230, 4.28 40 , a junior may be available this year."

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Not to be a downer on the first day back from holiday break, but how depressing was it watching Ed Reed catch interception after interception yesterday? All it did was make me miss Sean Taylor all the more...

no matter what else we can all say about Cerrato's drafts, which have obviously sucked year in and year out, drafting ST was monumental for our team and would have put us over the top for sure, eventually.

I hate Vinny as much as the next rabid fan, but I can't hate on him for finding a guy who was obviously destined for HOF greatness. I'll abide all his other picks simply because he found Sean for us.

Like I said, sorry to be a downer...

Posted by: mommyskinsfan | January 5, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

And Taylor did seem to be very effective at the end


uuuuuuhhhhhhh two coverage sacks against Philly and then disappearing again against SF is hardly being very effective....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Outside of Heyer and Rhinehart what do they really have? Nothing. Nada. Zero.

Just curious ... how does Heyer + Reinhart (who never even played a down) add up to more than nada?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I think you missed the operative phrase:

OUTSIDE OF:


Heyer is only one guy and they do seem to have him running everywhere replacing everyone. What happens if your center goes down? Thomas? Kendall? Then there is age and injury. With injury age increases dramatically. Both starting Tackles fall under this category. There is nothing behind them at this point. OUTSIDE OF Rhinehart and Heyer they appear to have Nada, Zero. It seems reckless and risky to ignore this. They have been ignoring this far more than the precious D-line everyone is so hepped up about. To the point of losing a talented guard and then having to TRADE A PICK to get a Kendall to replace him.

That isn't good.

"Outside of Heyer and Rhinehart what do they really have? Nothing. Nada. Zero.

Just curious ... how does Heyer + Reinhart (who never even played a down) add up to more than nada?"

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Anybody else catch Peter King's comment yesterday that Dallas and Washington will go after two of the top name coaches believed to be available next year (Cowher, Holmgren, Shanahan, and Dungy). Hopefully Zorn shows improvement next year and we don't have to go through last year's HC search circus again.

Posted by: skinswest | January 5, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

My fervent hope is that

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 1:50 PM


Wow, sween, way to leave us hanging. You should really

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

My post for the week. Watching playoff games really showed me something about our team... and us fans... we are jaded and want to believe that we have good players.

Most teams in the playoffs have a #2 RB who can take it to the house... we dont even have a #1 who can take it to the house.

Cerrato said Rb's are a strength of our team.... Well Rock can play ST, CP can block damn good and Betts can catch a good ball... but one thing is missing from all of those... actually running the ball. It might be the o lines fault to some degree, but really these are old type players, sound good football players with no downside but even less upside.

So what if AP fumbled 5 times this year, he led the league in rushing and is a homerun hitter...

We need an overhaul from Gibbs to 2009...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 5, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

A forced fumble is pretty big. Given and relative to the dearth of games he played in he ended up pretty high up both in this category, sacks and tackles.

"uuuuuuhhhhhhh two coverage sacks against Philly and then disappearing again against SF is hardly being very effective...."

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Look, I agree that the team has to draft for position this year. The talent and youth are too unevenly spread. I don't agree with the "best talent available" theory at all times. Most of the time, yes.

BUT: when you have a chance to get a guy like Mays, I say take him even if it means getting your position guy in the next round. And OL is supposed to be stocked this year, right?

This is not a forgone conclusion, as Mays may return for his senior year at USC. But if the guy is available at 13... trade Horton for a high draft pick and take Mays!

BTW, hilarious comment on Millen. Why is the guy right on TV but wrong in the GM slot?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Peri, didn't miss the phrase 'outside of'. Heyer looks to be a backup (which isn't completely nada, but he doesn't solve any major issue, either). And didn't Reinhart spent 2008 in the Bermuda Triangle?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

To add on to that... ever since CP had his fumbling issue, he never takes two hands off the ball through the hole. Gibbs had him cover up for dear life and ever since then he doesnt break big runs.

You could see it last year against Minny on that short run, CP jocked a guy by having one hand on the ball, the other extended out for balance and he juked... TD

Posted by: Zeebs | January 5, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Anyone have an idea where this kid will go if he declares?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8cADh8A5xI

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 5, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST UPDATE: Will take entries until the end of the week. Then I'll post them for review and anyone who wants to add/make changes can do it. Will close it about this time next week. So far, looks like about 50 entries. If you could put CONTEST ENTRY above the entry, it'll be easier to spot when I check for them

THE CONTEST IS:
Make a statement that will be kind of true one year from now (related to the Skins, of course). The most outrageous statement that is in the ballpark, wins. Up to 5 statements per person.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST:

Skins get the steal of the draft by selecting Sergio Kindle in the 3rd round. He breaks the rookie total for sacks in a season and is considered the next LT.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 5, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Contest:

JC wins MVP

Posted by: Zeebs | January 5, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

My fervent hope is that

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 1:50 PM


Wow, sween, way to leave us hanging. You should really

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 2:38 PM |


Here's what it looks like when two guys' bosses walk in the office unexpectedly and they have to flip to a work screen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Contest:

Zorn is fired midseason (say week 10) and Blatch replaces him.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 5, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Contest:

Dan Snyder gets eaten by the ENT's of Middle Earth for cutting down their bretheren along the Potomac... Gibbs takes over as owner per Synder will.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 5, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

My fervent hope is that

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 1:50 PM


Wow, sween, way to leave us hanging. You should really

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 2:38 PM |


Here's what it looks like when two guys' bosses walk in the office unexpectedly and they have to flip to a work screen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Good call T_E. Even better, the one about

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm usually against drafting for position, but with this year's first round pick we simply need to draft the best Offensive Tackle available.

Our O-Line is far and away our biggest need. We need a rookie that can immediately push Jansen aside and start.

Posted by: SkinsFan68 | January 5, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I wish we were at the position to draft a player like Mays, but what we NEED to do is draft some stud O and D linemen and then get ERIC BERRY FROM TENNESSEE next year. He is about 10 times the player Taylor Mays it.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Our O-Line is far and away our biggest need. We need a rookie that can immediately push Jansen aside and start.

Posted by: SkinsFan68 | January 5, 2009 3:00 PM

I have bigger hopes. I want a tackle who can take Chris Samuels' position and Chris can move to the right side.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

1. Carlos Rogers has more INTs than D Hall. Six to Five.
2. Phillip Daniels leads the line with fifteen and 1/2 sacks. Comeback player of the year.
3. CP hits a 'homerun' or two. 50+ yd carrys.
4. Fred Davis outshines CC47 as a Red Threat. Five TDs to Three.
5. Mike Holmgrem is assigned New GM of the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

what's so funnay about

Posted by: _Stumped_ | January 5, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

JLac is on point with this post, gut I hate his "hindsight" anaylsis. I thought he lauded the move to get Jason Taylor...

The Skins defense plays its younger lineman unlike the offense...that's why we know what these guys can do. I think the Skins "D" has some positives to build upon. They have good depth players (Alexander, Jackson, Montgomery) but we need elite players at the DE, DT and LB position (to complement Fletcher)

Posted by: rickyroge | January 5, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Time to go 1-15 and build through the draft and maybe find some real players. ...

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 1:11 PM

A higher slot won't do that much ... still need picks in the second, fourth, and fifth rounds.

Eric Berry ... Taylor Mays ... Sheriff Taylor ... Mayberry ... reminds me of that bit of RI lore about

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Violent Agreement with TE here. I have even bigger hopes. 2-4 New "rookies" capable of playing tackle and guard (Rhinehart inclusive). Plus 1 center. I would use all 4 picks on the line if the draft is as deep as they claim.

If they trade Carlos then a 1st round pick would have to go toward a CB.

"I have bigger hopes. I want a tackle who can take Chris Samuels' position and Chris can move to the right side."

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

100 bonus points for the first LOTR reference of the day.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

JLac is on point with this post, gut I hate his "hindsight" anaylsis. I thought he lauded the move to get Jason Taylor...

Posted by: rickyroge | January 5, 2009 3:13 PM

I also recall that he lauded the move ... under the circumstances.* His critique of the circumstances, however, seems like it has been consistent.

* Lack of young upgrades on D line. I recall that he was lukewarm on Landry at first, mostly b/c he was so hot about Okoye.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Skins were one player away this year. If Jason Taylor played liked the 2006 Taylor, this team is still playing. But ... he no showed. And Andre Carter no showed. And Chris Wilson no showed. And Daniels went down and Buzbee went down and James turned out to be a 'never was' and Jackson was (with Reinhart) in the Bermuda Triangle.

All Hail Demetric Evans!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Don't bring the ravens into this please, JLC. Even though they are a good organization it's just, come on, use someone else.

Posted by: BMACattack | January 5, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST STATEMENT:

Having beaten the hammy bug, and the calf bug, the Skins have been overwhelmed by the hip and groin bug.

Q to Cindy: What's wrong with Smoot going fishing?

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

He went down just like Daniels but with a life threatening injury. Kept on the roster because he did cost dearly in terms of the cap and in terms of draft picks.

"I have bigger hopes. I want a tackle who can take Chris Samuels' position and Chris can move to the right side."

Posted by: periculum | January 5, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Who cares about all these "Redskins by position posts" none of that stuff is going to happen.

Read Feinstein again http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122900984.html

All you need to know.

Posted by: johnbear1 | January 5, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

They're just one example of the importance of having a long-range plan and sticking to it.

By Jason La Canfora | January 5, 2009; 10:48 AM ET

This is a cheap shot if ever there was one. Snyder's Redskins have had more Long Term Plans than any other two teams in football, and they stuck to every one of them. Long Term Plans 'R' Us!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

In an attempt to freak out visiting teams, Vinny Cerrato's face is placed at midfield in place of the Redskin's emblem. T.O. makes a touchdown and then runs to midfield to do an "in your face" celebration on Vinny's Face. Danny Snyder charges him and is then savagely beaten by both Redskins and Cowboys players.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 5, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Contest Statement #2:

Outstanding performances by two out of three teams again for the Skins. After dismal scoring average in 2008, Skins offense outstands. Special teams also leads the NFL in change of possession yardage differential. After a strong showing in 2008, however, the defense that Gregg Williams built gets scored on more than a fraternity's little sister program.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

is there a consensus up in here about trading rodgers or keeping him? i'm still of the thinking that everyone knows we're selling and because of our past habits of overpaying for players with picks, i predict we'll get bottom value for rodgers.

yay vinny! he's our man! just can't wait to see what kind of zany moves he'll make in this offseason! stay tuned.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Comment Contest:

Skins offseason coaching search drama continues in 2009 after Skins FO jilted by smart assistants who know better and left to pick up scraps from Detroit staff to replace Joe Bugel, Jerry Gray, and Steve Jackson.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

Talent Evaluator realizes he is 100% jealous of The Truth and begins worshipping The Truth.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

regarding rogers, until something more substantial comes out about it, much ado about nothing to me...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

1. Carlos Rogers drops more INTs than D Hall has. 9 to 6.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 5, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Keep Rogers!

Duh! But if we don't (wouldn't be surprised/thanks Vinny)...

CONTEST -
Carlos Rogers leds an NFL roster in INTs..... the Lions? with eight?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

Antwan Randle-El shatters the Redskin's all time record for fair catches.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 5, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Carlos Rogers and #13 overall draft pick go to Detroit for Detroit's #1 draft pick and Detroit's #20 draft pick.

Redskins select Matthew Stafford at #1 and Knowshon Moreno at #20.

Redskins win the Superbowl in 2010.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Comment contest:

Skins have more picks in 2009 draft than Carlos Rogers does in the 2009 season.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

In order to portray a "tough guy" image and get more respect, Danny Snyder gets a crew cut and grows a goatee along with pork chop sideburns. He also puffs on clove cigarettes.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 5, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Due to his cheeping out on the building of the new Cowboys Stadium days before the doors open the entire roof falls down onto the field in an accident that will take years to clean up and repair. To make things more difficult Jerry is unwilling to negotiate to play 8 games in either the old Cotton Bowl or any of the nearby college stadiums because he does not want to lose the money.

Thus canceling the Cowboys season

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST

Antwan Randle-El shatters the Redskin's all time record for fair catches.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 5, 2009 3:43 PM

That hasn't already happened?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Don't get me wrong ... I think Carlos Rogers is a HIGH QUALITY cornerback at what he does, which is cover tight and keep opposing receivers from catching balls, including top receivers on the opposing team. He is not, however, an interceiver (that's a word, right?). If the Skins can sign D'Angelo Hall, then Rogers becomes an unaffordable luxury. If the Skins cannot sign D'Angelo Hall, then Rogers is the de facto #1 CB for the Skins and extending him becomes a priority.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Previous contest entry:

Carlos Rogers ends the season with 5 INTs and 1 TD, earning himself a pro-bowl berth...as a member of the Atlanta Falcons after being acquired for a mid-late 3rd round pick.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST ENTRY-

After being fired by Little Prick Danny in a lovers quarrel, Vinny grabs an RPG and shoots down LPD's helicopter over the Potomac River...Redskin Nation is deleriously happy and celebrates for 4 days and nights...

Posted by: knight1977 | January 5, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"If the Skins can sign D'Angelo Hall, then Rogers becomes an unaffordable luxury."

Isn't the goal to have 2 cornerbacks?

If Carlos Rogers is a luxury, then Laron Landry is a luxury.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Is it impossible to keep: DHALL, ROGERS & SPRINGS? Presumably we keep Springs with a pay cut and move him to FS? Half the time we play in the Cobra anyway? If it's not possible then it's not possible. But if it could happen, why not make it happen?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

What I meant to say is that BTGreg is right ... this idea about trading Rogers is only an idea (albeit a good one). Because Jasno wrote it down up here though, the Skins will expressly NOT do it ... kind of like getting Mariucci as head coach. Frankly, the reason the Skins have drafted so few linemen is probably because Jasno has been saying they should. The Skins FO is anti-Jasno, and its probably more important to NOT do what he suggests (which risks giving him credibility) than it is to draft wisely.

Still, I think the Skins did probably upgrade in talent evaluation by bringing in guys like Marocco Brown. Kind of like how D. Hall hands compensates for Rogers' hands. I figure Vinny and Snyder fancy themselves as deal makers ... and maybe are starting to recognize that they don't have the sharpest eyes for talent. Spotting talent is not the same as making the deal. On many NFL teams, the GM has the ultimate responsibility for both.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Heres how it goes down: (CONTEST if you like)

Releases: Taylor, Springs, Marcus, Corny, Thrash

Rogers and Hall are both signed.

In the draft, we trade out of #13 and pick up a G and a C in the 2nd round (hopefully Duke and Unger/Mack). We use our 3rd rounder on an OLB and use the 6th and 7th on an OT and a WR.

We sign Devrey Henderson as our #2 WR. We sign Peppers as a DE. And we sign a FA tackle to compete with Jansen. In 2010 we draft the franchise right tackle, and the 09 FA tackle eventually takes samuels job. In 2010 we also take two DTs and a speed RB to take Betts spot and back up CP.

Samuels starts at LT and Heyer moves to back him up
Our drafted G takes Kendalls spot, with Rhino the backup.
Drafted C and Rabach are the centers, may the best man win.
RThomas is the RG, unfortunately.
Jansen and the FA tackle compete for RT.

JC, 26, Betts, Cooley, Davis, Yoder (stays one more year, but is backing up Davis). Moss, Henderson, Kelly, Thomas, ARE.

Peppers is one starting DE. Carter, Daniels, Evans and the other fellas rotate at the other DE to keep fresh bodies. Monty, Alexander and Golston are the DTs until we sign a beast in 2010.

Fletch, Rocky, and Blades/drafted OLB are the starting LBs.

Rogers and Hall are starting corners. Landry, Horton and Moore are the Safeties.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Did we lose anyone to FA last season? Probably no comp picks for us this year?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Isn't the goal to have 2 cornerbacks?

If Carlos Rogers is a luxury, then Laron Landry is a luxury.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:54 PM

I don't understand your logic. Explain.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

as a member of the Atlanta Falcons after being acquired for a mid-late 3rd round pick.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:50 PM

I think that would be a fair trade ... swapping first round picks and also getting a Day One pick.

matthewvickers, I think the only unsigned free agent from 2007 (who then signed elsewhere in 2008) was Brunell. I could be wrong on that.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Thanks dcsween. We all know Brunell wasn't playing much behind Drew Brees. So, no comp picks for sure.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 5, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

How about a QB that can hit WRs and TEs in stride?

Posted by: Sulphide1 | January 5, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST:

Carlos Rogers catches more INT's than Shawn Springs plays full games in 2009.

BTW: Happy New Year RI, Cindy and that other guy whose name I can't recall..........Oh yeah Jason Reid!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 5, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Isn't the goal to have 2 cornerbacks?

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:54 PM

That just made me realize, how come there is no 1 CB set in the NFL for when another team uses a jumbo package or something?

Why put out 2 CB's when they are in a set with 2-3 TE's

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Samuels starts at LT and Heyer moves to back him up
Our drafted G takes Kendalls spot, with Rhino the backup.
Drafted C and Rabach are the centers, may the best man win.
RThomas is the RG, unfortunately.
Jansen and the FA tackle compete for RT.

Rypien11,
Why do you insist on posting your fantasy future of the Skins roster? Do you not acknowledge that factors such as who is available in FA/the 09 draft, how players currently on the roster perform in offseason programs can affect the starters for 2009? All of which are not known factors currently.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 5, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

and that other guy whose name I can't recall..........Oh yeah Jason Reid!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 5, 2009 4:08 PM

That's just what his captors are trying to make him think ... that we've forgotten him. Hang in there JR; we'll scrape together your ransom money soon!

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Isn't the goal to have 2 cornerbacks?

If Carlos Rogers is a luxury, then Laron Landry is a luxury.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 3:54 PM

I don't understand your logic. Explain.

Posted by: dcsween

-----

(1) Because we have a starting-caliber SS in Chris Horton with big-play potential.

(2) Because Laron Landry would garner just as much, if not more interest than Carlos Rogers.

(3) Because cornerbacks are generally known as more vital to a defense's success than a safety.

The point is that you need 2 starting CBs in this league, just like you need 2 starting safeties in this league. Just because we found one potential starting CB for the future doesn't make our other starting CB for the future expendable. If Rogers is expendable because of Hall, then Landry is expendable because of Horton.

The only real luxury that secondary has is Shawn Springs. He's an aging player that cannot be counted on on a week-to-week basis, has 2 youngsters on the roster that are just as good as he, yet is paid to be a #1 corner. That's about as close to the definition of roster luxury that I can think of. He's the guy that needs to be shopped around, not Rogers.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

ryp, I like that line of thinking...drop Devrey, and I'm 100 percent with you.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 5, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST:

The US military, in a final push to locate Osama bin Laden amongst the caves in Tora Bora, accidently stumble upon Jason Reid's Unrestricted hideout.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 5, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

The US military, in a final push to locate Osama bin Laden amongst the caves in Tora Bora, accidently stumble upon Jason Reid's Unrestricted hideout.
Posted by: Predator48 | January 5, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

LOL!

I thought Bin Laden was hiding out in Ashburn

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

psps, I see your point ... but the difference is that Landry has three (two?) more seasons under contract and Rogers only has one. The Skins are getting current value out of Landry, but are going to have to pay the piper to renew Rogers b/c he's due (and worth it). I agree that Skins have solid but redundant roster coverage at strong safety ... seems like Skins are still grasping in the dark at free safety, whether its Landry or Springs (or maybe Moore?), i.e., still need to fill the void at free safety left by the Sean Taylor tragedy. [Cue the Ryan Clark dead horse beat-o-rama.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

In the category of wistful coulda/shoulda/wouldas, re-signing Ryan Clark might have meant that they wouldn't have made the move to sign LaRon Landry (or had the "luxury" of picking sixth after that 5-11 season) ... and might have picked someone to replace a veteran from the soon departing class of March 2004 (the Gibbs 2.0 FA splurge: Springs,* Cornelius, Marcus, etc.).

* I think someone corrected me once that Springs' signing preceded Gibbs. Too lazy to confirm.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Predator -- you got a real shot with that one!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know if he's a luxury: yes the team is fairly well off at that position, because Chris Horton was an unexpected gem: a guy who knew the system very well and benefited from that knowledge.

Since he's undrafted, the Redskins may be able to trade Horton easily: no cap room, proven young commodity. Probably get a 2nd round pick, maybe third?:

Posted by: dpc2003

What are you talking about??? Chris Horton WAS DRAFTED - in the 7th Round....

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 5, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

So, JLa's right about not bringing back JT55. And extending Evans. And bringing back Daniels at vet minimum.

Other than that...

I don't see the problem with paying for a young (26years) hybrid-type player like Terrell Suggs who can kill 2 birds with one stone by filling a need at LB and being able to rush the passer.

Rob Jackson is listed as 6-4/269 which is bigger (heavier) than Gaines Adams.

Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis are 2 "undersized" DEs who seem to play just fine and have combined for about 22 sacks this season. I'm not saying that Chris Wilson is the next Freeney, but give the guy some kind of chance. Chris Clemons was mentioned in this post, and do we forget he was once a young pass rusher on the Redskins and we gave up on him?

Bottom line: LET THE YOUNG BUCKS PLAY. LET'S SEE WHAT WE HAVE@!!!


Posted by: p1funk | January 5, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

dcsween
We got springs shortly after the Champ2ndClinton trade as I remember it.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

The Skins will have lots of holes in the next few year with players aging. They need to make sure they don't create new ones by trading away what works.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

psps, I see your point ... but the difference is that Landry has three (two?) more seasons under contract and Rogers only has one.
Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Rogers may demand a big contract, but he shouldn't get one and I don't believe he will - whether it is from the Skins or some other team.

Other than about 7-8 games earlier this season, Rogers has NOT played like a No.1 CB. He gets beat on moves and can't catch INTs.

What he has going for him is that he plays a premium position where teams are likely to overpay for services, but he didn't make much of a case for himself in the last 4-5 games of the season this year (except for INT versus SF).

Posted by: p1funk | January 5, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

i think it's all together said that as fans we're discussing what parts of our valuable team we need to auction to get more draft picks. whether it be horton, rodgers, etc it's just stupid that we're in this predicament. seems like the skins can't make a move without dangling a draft pick. we'll be the team that figures out a way to cough up draft picks for FA signings, i just know it. or wait we essentially have (erasmus james).

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

sween, I agree that he's worth it, but my only question is why must it be Rogers that goes? Yes, it may be difficult to sign both he and Hall, but neither should garner Nate Clements type of money (and if either do, then 'F em).

As of right now, Rogers' cap number is not large, so a trade won't really save money. Whether or not we trade Rogers will have no impact on whether we are able to re-sign Hall. At that point if Hall gets re-signed, to me the choice then becomes Rogers vs. Springs. Springs has an $8 mill cap figure. Cut (or trade) him and we save $6 mill on the cap, and his numbers come off the books in 2010. More than enough to re-sign Rogers, plus extra. And that space doesn't include the eventual demise of Fred Smoot (who despite being the worst of the foursome, is in the middle of a $27 million contract). I don't see why trading Rogers would even be an option.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

enough jibba jabba about our 09 draft status or prospects, we know it's gonna suck. how we stacked up for the 2010 draft? that'll be the first year we don't owe anyone picks, right? i hearby declare 2010 draft discussion open for bizness, 2009 is a crapshoot.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

dcsween
We got springs shortly after the Champ2ndClinton trade as I remember it.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 5, 2009 4:35 PM |

March 4th 2004 we signed Springs

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

but he didn't make much of a case for himself in the last 4-5 games of the season this year (except for INT versus SF).

Posted by: p1funk

----

Rogers was stellar against Philly. In fact, he started that game in a 3CB, 1 Safety set. And then he completely outplayed Hall against SF, complete with not giving up any receptions and adding an INT to boot.

Rogers had a total of 2 truly poor plays on the year. One against Baltimore, one against Cinci. He was great all year long.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

What are you talking about??? Chris Horton WAS DRAFTED - in the 7th Round....

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 5, 2009 4:27 PM |

Now I get it. When JM220 used to post "whack to the back of the head with a ball peen hammer," he was summoning Lisa and her hammer. Ouch! That would smart.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

dadanimal,

You'd be wrong with that assumption. We don't have a 2010 6th rounder, given up for Jason Taylor.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Here is our first pick in 2010 according to a mock draft.

Washington Redskins: Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
Considering all the problems the Redskins have up front - injuries, age, lacking depth - I can't see them passing on a top-notch defensive end like Carlos Dunlap, who runs a 4.7 despite weighing in at 290 pounds.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

dang, well how about 2011? we're good there, right?!

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

uhhh...what was the plan again? is that a sensationalized article heading or what?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/01/cerrato-forms-a-plan-of-attack/


lol?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 4:43 PM |

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

i know what would cure the skins ills! the CBA will expire with no salary cap allowing the skins to sign whoever and be the football version of the yankees. ya know, an overpaid underachieving team...wait that's somewhat familiar to what we have now. scratch that then.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

As of right now, Rogers' cap number is not large, so a trade won't really save money. Whether or not we trade Rogers will have no impact on whether we are able to re-sign Hall. At that point if Hall gets re-signed, to me the choice then becomes Rogers vs. Springs. Springs has an $8 mill cap figure. Cut (or trade) him and we save $6 mill on the cap, and his numbers come off the books in 2010. More than enough to re-sign Rogers, plus extra. And that space doesn't include the eventual demise of Fred Smoot (who despite being the worst of the foursome, is in the middle of a $27 million contract). I don't see why trading Rogers would even be an option.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 4:40 PM

First thing first, which is to try and get Hall signed. If that's a no go, then end of story.

Rogers and cap space is not the real issue I've been trying to yammer about ... my issue is about getting more guys out of this next draft. Rogers seems like the only one with real value ... and I'm being desperate here.

Miami won its division ... and now it has two of our picks. Jets were nipping at their heels ... and we STILL have to pay for Kendall with a pick.

Skins did not win the division and nipped at no ones' heels ... AND we have fewer picks to show for it.

Posted by: dcsween | January 5, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

that 2010 draft pick is lookin mighty fine, i'll sit out the 2009 fanfare season until then.

Here is our first pick in 2010 according to a mock draft.

Washington Redskins: Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
Considering all the problems the Redskins have up front - injuries, age, lacking depth - I can't see them passing on a top-notch defensive end like Carlos Dunlap, who runs a 4.7 despite weighing in at 290 pounds.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 4:48 PM |

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Pardon my ignorance, because I'm a Redskins fan...

But what..........is a defensive end?

Posted by: jmicrodoc | January 5, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

sween - do you think we're really get a good enough return on our investment (rodgers) by trading him? i'm all for stockpiling picks but look who's making the picks.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

+++Nope never thaught LaVar could be that, you have to play a 3-4 for a LB to get that many sacks.

Posted by: Flounder21+++

When LaVar was told to play with his hand on the ground on passing downs he whined like a little girl. Now THAT was something we had no right to expect.

Posted by: TheCork | January 5, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

sween - do you think we're really get a good enough return on our investment (rodgers) by trading him? i'm all for stockpiling picks but look who's making the picks.

Posted by: dadanimal

Exactly my sentiment. If you trade Rogers, you've got to replace him. Unless you get a top 10 first round pick, you're not getting value for Rogers. Unless you want to replace him with the next Justin Tryon that we draft with a mid-round pick.

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

the argument for trading him (rodgers) doesn't seem strong enough, unless of course tryon is the man, but none of us know that. moreover we know that vinny reads this blog to help make decisions so we need to sell vinny on not trading rodgers.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 5, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Exactly my sentiment. If you trade Rogers, you've got to replace him. Unless you get a top 10 first round pick, you're not getting value for Rogers. Unless you want to replace him with the next Justin Tryon that we draft with a mid-round pick.


I've said it 15 times nobody seems to care, so what if he's our only "marketable" trading piece, we took him with the 9th overall pick and he is still in his rookie deal and now we gonna turn around and trade him for a mid round pick (maybe) and create another need right away because now all you have behind hall is two overpaid injury prone declining corners and a midget other than hall! Sign Hall, extend Rogers now, cut springs then Rogers and Hall are your starting corners for the next 5 years, and a pretty darn good tandem. Trading Rogers would take erase our biggest strength and create another need all for at best a 3rd round pick but more likely a 4th or a 5th....that's IDIOTIC which means we'll probably do it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 5, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

GRIMM GETTING A LOOK IN NEW YORK
Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2009, 4:08 p.m. EST
Two years after, as legend has it, being offered the Steelers’ head-coaching job before having the offer revoked, Cardinals offensive line coach Russ Grimm is getting consideration for another vacancy.

Per Rich Cimini of the New York Daily News, Grimm is the latest candidate for the job that came open last Monday, when Eric Mangini abruptly was fired.

This development implies that the Cardinals have granted permission for the interview to proceed before their playoff run ends. Under league rules, assistant coaches who play during wild-card week are eligible to be interviewed for head-coaching jobs, but only if their current teams allow it.

Last year, the Jaguars gave the Falcons permission to interview defensive coordinator Mike Smith in the days after Jacksonville’s wild-card win over the Steelers. That same week, the Giants rejected a request from the Falcons to interview defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

The secondary works. Its easily the strongest 'unit' on the team.

It would be foolish for the Skins to risk breaking up a group of mostly young DBs. That said, not sure if cap issues may be too big to keep this group largely intact.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

I've yet to come up with a realisitic scenario that has this being a good team in 2009.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Go Grimm!!!!!!

I seem to remember someone predicting Grimm would be in the 2009 coaching derby after he was credited with helping turn the Cardinals around...

Oh yeah that was ME!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Moss is a number 1 as long as he has an o-line, complimentary number 2 and about a dozen other roster needs that are too long to list

Posted by: go88car ++++

Uh, no!
He's a #2 for sure. Steve Smith of the Panthers is like Moss, but much better.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I'm corrected (ouch!) Horton was a 7th round pick. He probably would have gone undrafted but for Blache's connection to UCLA.

Still think Mays is a game-changing guy. And IF he's available at 13, snap him up.

Unless of course Michael Oher is available, but he'l probably go top 10.

Skinsfan, in my opinion Steve Smith might have more impact than any other receiver in the league this year. Without him Carolina was average at best, with him they're a legit and are in pretty good shape to get to at least the NFC championship game. He's off the hook...

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Agree that we must draft a top defensive line prospect. But that doesn't mean we should give up on JT. The guy's been a Hall of Fame caliber DE and is a truly class act and leader in the locker room. Give him a healthy start next year and see what happens.

Posted by: StevefromSacto | January 5, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

WHO IS THE PRIORITY ON THE DEFENSIVE LINE FOR 2009: DEFENSIVE ENDS OR DEFENSIVE TACKLES???

I believe Defensive tackles.

I like Peria Jerry out of Ole Miss. Height: 6-2. Weight: 305.
Projected 40 Time: 4.94.

First, we need to shore up the middle of the defense and that is best done if we could get a SECOND Defensive tackle who can stop the run and put pressure in the face of a passer like Cornelius Griffin.

Second, two DT's destroying anything in the A & B gaps would be a serious relief to the line backers and secondary. Third, we are closer to having two great Defensive tackles than two great Defensive ends (Griffin is the best DL we have).

WE WIN IN THE TRENCHES!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: tmcmullins | January 5, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Pardon my ignorance, because I'm a Redskins fan...

But what..........is a defensive end?

Posted by: jmicrodoc | January 5, 2009 5:07 PM

According to the Cerrato Compendium of Football Knowledge (available at your local Toys R Us by the way), a defensive end is a late round or a first round pick with injury problems, who weighs anywhere from 235 to 255 lbs.

His job is to stand up to 320 pound offensive tackles and get pushed at least 5 to 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage on running plays, and then wave to the opposing QB as he throws downfield after 5 seconds in the pocket.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 5, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps Phillip Merling and Gaines Adams weren't sexy enough to take in recent years, but at some point the Redskins must devote a few high picks to this position..."

Oh, I'm sure they were cute as buttons, both of them, but Adams was long gone by the 4th pick, and Merling has turned into a bulky 3-4 type end, 290+ lbs, which is not exactly Speed-Racer material.

You see anybody out there at the 13th pick who'd be a real upgrade at rush end? Brian Orakpo from Texas? Rambling Wreck Michael Johnson? Everette Brown of the Seminoles? All good players. But game-changers?

Wonder if there's not a free agent out there who's a better value.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 5, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Uh, no!
He's a #2 for sure. Steve Smith of the Panthers is like Moss, but much better.


Posted by: lsskinsfan


--------

Better, yes. Much better? No.

What did Smith's stats look like the years he was missing Muhsin Muhammad?

-83 receptions, 1166 yards, 8 TDs

-87 receptions, 1002 yards, 7 TDs

What did Santana Moss' numbers look like this year, with zero help from other receivers?

-79 receptions, 1044 yards, 6 TDs

Not much difference at all.


Now compare Smith's production of w/ vs. w/o Muhammad. With Muhammad, his stats look like this:

- 103 receptions, 1563 yards, 12 TDs
- 78 receptions, 1421 yards, 6 TDs

Compare that to what you saw above. Without Muhammad, Smith had to become the possession AND the deep threat. Most receivers can't handle both. With Muhammad, Smith could be used as a weapon first and foremost. Of course it also helps that they have a two-headed monster of a rushing attack.

Give Moss some other weapons to take pressure off him, and I guarantee he puts up numbers as good or better than Smith. Right now, the Skins are trying to turn him into something he's not (a possession receiver).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3657144

Posted by: psps23 | January 5, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

So what do you think was difference that allowed Carter to get 10.5 sacks two years ago and this year?

I suspect injuries to Daniels, Taylor, Griffin, Golston, Doughty, and Washington were the main cause of the decreased production and not the loss of Gregg Williams or a regression of skills...

Posted by: siris

Siris, watched Carter quite a bit this season. Pretty much every time I isolated on him, he was handled one-on-one, often with ease.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Agree that we must draft a top defensive line prospect. But that doesn't mean we should give up on JT. The guy's been a Hall of Fame caliber DE and is a truly class act and leader in the locker room. Give him a healthy start next year and see what happens.

Posted by: StevefromSacto | January 5, 2009 6:23 PM |

This is what is wrong with the team they gave up two picks and 8.5 mil. for an over the hill guy, and now you want to keep him for another year at a ridiculous price.

He may be a hall of famer but it won't be because of his career with the Skins, 3.5 sacks and two of them were coverage sacks.

I did not mind the move at the time, but don't compound the mistake by giving him 8.5 mil more this year. Vinny needs to admit the mistake and move on.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Oh and a leader is not laughing on the sideline when his team is getting whooped on the field. I saw a few games where JT was laughing it up on the sidelines while the team was loosing.

I've never been in the locker room so I would not know if he is a leader there, but I really don't care if you can't be a leader on the field then you no good to this team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 5, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

CONTEST:

In an effort to keep his job, Coach Zorn begins to wear the same brand shades as VC and The Danny.

JC17 has fewer interceptions than Coach Zorn uses "in my mind".

DC native Jerome "Pimp Hand Strong" Jenkins a.k.a. Pimpalicious Southeast Jerome sues CP for trademark infringement. Case gets backlogged under Native Americans v. The Washington Redskins.

A.Randle-El becomes official spokesman for Sure deodorant when company official realizes just how many times he raises his hands during punt returns.

Posted by: Tymmel44 | January 5, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

vabeachblitz - um, what?

Rypien11,
Why do you insist on posting your fantasy future of the Skins roster? Do you not acknowledge that factors such as who is available in FA/the 09 draft, how players currently on the roster perform in offseason programs can affect the starters for 2009? All of which are not known factors currently.

#1 - That was my only post in this thread and probably my only one in two weeks, I hardly call that "insisting".

#2 - Everyone is putting in their ideas for this alleged 'contest' of how they see the team in the near future - am I not allowed to do that?

#3 - I DO take into account the 09 FAs - that is why I mention Henderson, Peppers, etc. And I've seen enough of the players I mention to know if I would LIKE them on the team or not. Same goes with the draft and what we need thru the draft. If you haven't noticed, there are quite a few indices of college players available in the 09 draft.

#4 - I hardly call it a 'fantasy' roster - I wouldn't say a #2/3 WR and an impact DE is the same as breaking the bank fawning over Haynesworth, Suggs, etc.

#5 - if you don't care to read my opinion, feel free to continue right along. Not sure why you chose to single mine out when there are 50 posts with identical content.

BEANTOWNGREG - you don't think we need another WR? I dont think Henderson would be THAT expensive....

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 5, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Carlos Rogers and #13 overall draft pick go to Detroit for Detroit's #1 draft pick and Detroit's #20 draft pick.

Redskins select Matthew Stafford at #1 and Knowshon Moreno at #20.

Redskins win the Superbowl in 2010.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 5, 2009 3:43 PM |

...or come in 13th just like UGA.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 5, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

WalterFootball has updated their 2009 Draft Tight End Rankings.

Think like the Vinnie.

Be The Vinnie.

You know you want to draft the best available player, right?

Jermaine Gresham, am I right!?1!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

i'm just looking at this entry knowing what to expect as the analysis.

W/O having finished reading this, I read this statement which is a Wow moment:

" If I had to pick a defensive MVP after London Fletcher, Evans would be the guy.
"

Wow........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

HOw can Rob JAckson and Chris Wilson be the same when one barely got on the field and the other has only played maybe 5 defensive snaps in his rookie season?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Remember Jumpy Geathers?!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:17 AM

That's what I call my little one but couldn't remember where I got it from...

(Tryin to see what it feels like to be Cork)

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

I noticed when people look on realer/positive side versus the constant negativity, they automatically = Vinny Cerrato. It happened to me last week andI had to laugh my SJK off....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

What do you guys think of packaging Rogers and Betts and asking for a first or second round pick? They both have pretty good trade value individually and together maybe a team will bite on them. Then if it all works out (I doubt it will) you could maybe have two first rounders to use on an O lineman and maybe a linebacker like Curry or Laurinitis. Then in free agency you go after SPROLES to take betts' spot. He gives the Skins that DYNAMIC change of pace back and he is a few years younger than betts. I think that move would be awesome. Although at the same time it would be nice to book Rogers and Hall as your two corners for the next 5-6 years.

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 5, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

i'm having a really hard time deciding who's going to win iggles vs. gints game this weekend. iggles have the #3 ranked defense in the league. and they beat the gints pretty good the last time. but i don't think jacobs was healthy. i can't imagine a line of more than 4 points for this game.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 1:44 PM

I'm rooting for a tie.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Give Moss some other weapons to take pressure off him, and I guarantee he puts up numbers as good or better than Smith+++

Smith, even in double coverage, goes up and gets the ball often, Moss doesn't. Smith has better hands, and is as fast if not faster on the top end.
I never said I don't like Moss, but of the two, Smith wins easily, IMHO.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

I noticed when people look on realer/positive side versus the constant negativity, they automatically = Vinny Cerrato.
==============================================
What is realer about the positive side, 4th?

By that, I mean what would make one think this team is going to do better in the next few years than it has in the last few.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Remember Jumpy Geathers?!

Posted by: chrislarry +++
I've met him a couple of times at the local Sam's wholesale club. He is as genuine as they come. He's very much a spiritual man. He lives only a few ,iles away from my home.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm rooting for a tie.....

Posted by: 4thFloor ++++

You and McNabb.........

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Jeff, if the skins did that, then it would have to be def be a 1st with a conditional 5th/6th thrown in there.......

If we did do that, we def have to get a RB in the 1st 3 rounds. When it shouldn't matter.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

...or come in 13th just like UGA.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 5, 2009 8:34 PM

Sad part is UGA still finished ahead of Tech. If only Tech could have played Georgia again in a bowl game, instead of LSU.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

ITTDGY -

You got the realist/postive spin types.

And you have the realist/negative spin types.

Both believe in what they are saying, but at the end, it's all spin to got others to their side.

--------------

I think we will do well on defense because JT55 will come back for another season at a reduced price. And Maybe as a LB. Daniels will be back. Evans will get more reps.

I saw alot of Improvement from Montgomery in the latter part of the season. Remember he was being pushed hard by Blatche in the Media the year before. Golhston will have another year.

The 3 2nd Rounders will have another offseason/OTAs/Training camp under their belt. I expect 2 out of 3 to perform well, atleast because of that.

JC17 is a questionmark, but I am will to do one more to find out because we do not have any better options.

We only need to replace 2 out of the 5 Starting OLine, and their replacement is already on the roster.

How is that for starters?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

jk means, "just kidding"

what does sjk stand for?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

How is that for starters?

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 5, 2009 9:26 PM |
=============================================
It's O.K.

We only need to replace 2 out of the 5 Starting OLine, and their replacement is already on the roster.

You mean, only 2 of 5 next year. Heyer and Rhino might be adequate next year, maybe they'll be awesome. But for all we know, they'll be less than adequate. Meanwhile, the 3/5 you think don't need replacing will be a year older. I saw someone earlier (or someones) saying Samuels has only had one or two injuries. He's had a third operation on the same knee, and he's going to be 32.

I also saw someone say (ok, I read it) that since a rookie O.L. isn't necessarily going to be a starter, we should take a linebacker instead.

It should be obvious that if your goal is to build a winning football franchise, and if a quality offensive lineman takes two years instead of one to even make your team, then that makes drafting them an even bigger priority.

So I'll get off my soapbox now, and say I that I hope Vinnie and Danny have gotten some religion, and start fixing our O.L.

Otherwise, we are SJKed. For many years to come.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Jack's Kids!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

This if by no means meant to defend Vinny but just to point out that personnel evaluation is not an exact science.

From PFT
ERNEST WILFORD BLAMES LACK OF OPPORTUNITY FOR POOR SEASON
Posted by Josh Alper on January 5, 2009, 3:11 p.m.
There was only one glaring black spot in the otherwise sunny season turned in by the Miami Dolphins. Ernest Wilford, signed to a four-year, $13 million contract in March, caught just three passes for 25 yards in just seven appearances for the team. If you ask Wilford, though, it was the Dolphins and not him who were to blame for his poor production.

“That’s on them,” he said. “They never gave me an opportunity. It’s all in their hands now.”

Dolphins G.M. Jeff Ireland disagrees with that assessment. In September he called Wilford “a disappointment.” Wilford struggled all through training camp and wasn’t activated for the playoff loss to the Ravens, leaving the Dolphins with just three wide receivers.

Wilford, who made a total of $7 million thanks to his signing bonus in 2008, led the Jaguars with 45 catches in the 2007 season, and had 141 catches and 14 touchdowns over his four years with the team.

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 5, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

I heard osu coach talk up Texas today and I knew Texas was going down.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, Jack's Kids!

?

I still don't get it? Jack's kids? who the he** is Jack?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

These bowl games continue to unimpress.

Texas v. Ohio State

The offense looks like the teams spent 3 weeks learning new plays which, when executed, get about 3-7 yards-- just like the old plays did.

Individual players standout: Terry Robiskie's son will go somewhere in the NFL and be servicable and excellent, just like Anthony Gonzalez is for the Colts.

Ohio State's right guard and left tackle seem like quality players--ooops, just the positions where the Skins need and can get immediate help on the o-line.

Is Wells good or is his o-line better? The line, with the lead action, is good.

I'd wait on Pryor before drafting Colt McCoy-- Pryor seems like Vince Young without the head problems and accuracy.

Speaking of inaccuracy, name young African-American quarterback you'd select: Tavaris Jackson or Jason Campbell?

Joe Flacco.

He's not an African American.

Tavaris Jackson and Jason Campbell aren't quarterbacks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 5, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

I am a Portis fan, but as long as Portis is the "featured" back, we will not win a championship and here's why:

1) Look at the teams in the playoffs...they have a two or three back system with a consistent rotation in and out of the game ALL SEASON

2) The have a pass catching back, a workhorse, and/or a "scat back". We have them, but we don't use them.

We cannot afford to smash Portis for 16 games. We don't have the O-Line and he doesn't have the durability.

Do ya'll agree?

SICWIDIT

Posted by: rickyroge | January 5, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Oh,

Jack kent Cooke's kids?
I get it now.

I like it better than TCCL! I'd sign a petition to rid this blog of TCCL in a second!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

African-American quarterback you'd select: Tavaris Jackson or Jason Campbell?

Joe Flacco.

He's not an African American.

Tavaris Jackson and Jason Campbell aren't quarterbacks.

Posted by: MistaMoe +++
can we just all be American's already?
Has JC even been to Africa before?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I still don't get it? Jack's kids? who the he** is Jack?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 9:55 PM
=============================================
All the kids today are using google, here's how it works:

SJK stands for sorry Jack's Kids, its my kids and its cause I asked a guy to stop cussing on here one day for my kids sake and it is now a substitute for cussing.
...
Posted by: Jack | August 23, 2007 1:31 PM

And that's the way it is.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

For all who want to judge Vinny Cerato’s drafting (ahem, this includes you, JLC), let’s do it with an eye towards history:

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1978 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
6 159 Tony Green RB Florida
8 202 Walker Lee -- North Carolina
8 219 Don Hover LB Washington State
9 243 John Hurley -- Santa Clara
10 270 Scott Hertenstein -- Azusa Pacific
11 297 Mike Williams -- Texas A&M
12 324 Steve McCabe -- Bowdoin

(Who? Who? Who? Etc.)

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

thanks thunder.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | January 5, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1979 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 103 Don Warren TE San Diego State
7 182 Rich Milot LB Penn State
9 233 Kris Haines WR Notre Dame
11 289 Monte Coleman LB Central Arkansas
11 300 Tony Hall – Knoxville

(Big draft; three long-term starters (103, 182, 289))

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1980 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 18 Art Monk WR Syracuse
2 55 Mat Mendenhall DE Brigham Young
6 155 Farley Bell -- Cincinnati
7 187 Melvin Jones G Houston
9 241 Lawrence McCullough -- Illinois
10 268 Lewis Walker -- Utah
11 295 Mike Matocha -- Texas-Arlington
12 327 Marcene Emmett -- North Alabama

(Only one starter out of this draft, but a hall of famer. Still, only one long-term starter out of 8 picks? Not exactly a successful draft.)

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1981 - Washington Redskins
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Mark May T Pittsburgh
3 69 Russ Grimm G Pittsburgh
4 90 Tom Flick QB Washington
5 119 Dexter Manley DE Oklahoma State
5 132 Gary Sayre -- Cameron
6 148 Larry Kubin LB Penn State
8 201 Charlie Brown WR South Carolina State
9 231 Darryl Grant DT Rice
10 257 Phil Kessel -- Northern Michigan
10 267 Allan Kennedy T Washington State
11 284 Jerry Hill -- North Alabama
12 314 Clint Didier TE Portland State

(Wow – 6 full-time starters out of 12 picks – looks like the ‘skins were dumping high-priced FAs and stocking draft picks.)

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1982 - Washington Redskins
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 49 Vernon Dean DB San Diego State
3 61 Carl Powell -- Jackson State
4 99 Todd Liebenstein DE Nevada-Las Vegas
5 133 Mike Williams TE Alabama A&M
6 153 Lemont Jeffers LB Tennessee
7 180 John Schachtner -- Northern Arizona
8 223 Ralph Warthen -- Gardner-Webb
9 226 Ken Coffey DB Texas State
9 238 Randy Trautman -- Boise State
10 254 Harold Smith -- Kentucky State
10 265 Terry Daniels -- Tennessee
11 281 Danny Miller K Miami (Fla.)
11 291 Bob Holly QB Princeton
12 309 Don Laster T Tennessee State
12 322 Jeff Goff – Arkansas

(Only one full-time player, but not for many years (Vernon Dean played in the first Skins Super Bowl, but then dropped off the map)).

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1983 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Darrell Green DB Texas A&M - Kingsville
2 56 Richard Williams RB Memphis
3 84 Charles Mann DE Nevada-Reno
6 166 Bob Winckler -- Wisconsin
6 168 Babe Laufenberg QB Indiana
7 196 Kelvin Bryant RB North Carolina
8 224 Todd Hallstrom -- Minnesota
9 251 Marcus Gilbert -- Texas Christian
10 279 Geff Gandy – Baylor

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1984 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 31 Bob Slater -- Oklahoma
2 55 Steve Hamilton DE East Carolina
3 83 Jay Schroeder QB UCLA
4 102 Jimmy Smith RB Elon
5 125 Jeff Pegues -- East Carolina
6 167 Curt Singer T Tennessee
7 195 Mark Smith -- North Carolina
8 223 Jeff Smith -- Missouri
10 279 Keith Griffin RB Miami (Fla.)
11 307 Anthony Jones TE Wichita State
12 335 Curtland Thomas WR Missouri
Gary Clark WR James Madison
Tony Zendejas K Nevada-Reno
Clarence Verdin WR Louisiana-Lafayette

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1985 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 33 Tory Nixon DB San Diego State
5 122 Raphel Cherry DB Hawaii
6 163 Danzell Lee TE Lamar
7 177 Jamie Harris -- Oklahoma State
7 185 Lionel Vital RB Nicholls State
8 219 Barry Wilburn DB Mississippi
9 247 Mitch Geier T Troy State
10 263 Terry Orr TE Texas
11 290 Raleigh McKenzie G Tennessee
11 304 Garry Kimble DB Sam Houston State
12 309 Dean Hamel DT Tulsa
12 331 Bryant Winn LB Houston

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1986 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 30 Markus Koch DE Boise State
2 45 Walter Murray WR Hawaii
3 75 Alvin Walton DB Kansas
5 113 Ravin Caldwell LB Arkansas
6 146 Mark Rypien QB Washington State
6 156 Jim Huddleston G Virginia
7 186 Rick Badanjek RB Maryland
8 213 Kurt Gouveia LB Brigham Young
9 239 Wayne Asberry -- Texas A&M
11 297 Kenny Fells -- Henderson State
12 323 Eric Yarber WR Idaho

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Exciting Fiesta Bowl. At least I took the under.

Texas dominates the second half. 24-13.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1987 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 30 Brian Davis DB Nebraska
2 48 Wally Kleine -- Notre Dame
5 117 Timmy Smith RB Texas Tech
6 144 Steve Gage DB Tulsa
6 164 Ed Simmons T Eastern Washington
7 192 Johnny Thomas DB Baylor
8 219 Clarence Vaughn DB Northern Illinois
9 248 Alfred Jenkins -- Arizona
10 274 Ted Wilson WR Central Florida
11 304 Laron Brown WR Texas
12 331 Ray Hitchcock C Minnesota

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1988 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 55 Chip Lohmiller K Minnesota
3 66 Mike Oliphant RB Puget Sound
4 109 Jamie Morris RB Michigan
5 127 Carl Mims -- Sam Houston State
6 159 Stan Humphries QB Louisiana-Monroe
7 193 Harold Hicks -- San Diego State
8 221 Darryl McGill -- Wake Forest
9 249 Blake Peterson -- Mesa State
10 277 Henry Brown -- Ohio State
11 305 Curt Koch -- Colorado
12 315 Wayne Ross -- San Diego State

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1989 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
3 66 Tracy Rocker DT Auburn
4 110 Erik Affholter WR USC
5 129 Tim Smiley -- Arkansas
5 139 Lybrant Robinson DE Delaware State
6 149 A.J. Johnson DB Texas State
7 179 Kevin Hendrix -- South Carolina
9 233 Charles Darrington -- Kentucky
10 263 Mark Schlereth G Idaho
12 316 Jimmie Johnson TE Howard
12 317 Joe Mickles RB Mississippi

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

1990 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 46 Andre Collins LB Penn State
3 76 Mohammed Elewonibi T Brigham Young
4 86 Cary Conklin QB Washington
4 109 Rico Labbe DB Boston College
5 130 Brian Mitchell RB Louisiana-Lafayette
6 160 Kent Wells DT Nebraska
9 243 Tim Moxley -- Ohio State
10 262 D'Juan Francisco -- Notre Dame
10 270 Thomas Rayam G Alabama
11 297 Jon Leverenz – Minnesota

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1991 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Bobby Wilson DT Michigan State
3 76 Ricky Ervins RB USC
6 159 Dennis Ransom TE Texas A&M
7 188 Keith Cash TE Texas
8 215 Jimmy Spencer DB Florida
9 243 Charles Bell -- Baylor
10 270 Cris Shale -- Bowling Green State
11 299 David Gulledge DB Jacksonville State
12 326 Keenan McCardell WR Nevada-Las Vegas

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1992 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Desmond Howard WR Michigan
2 47 Shane Collins DE Arizona State
3 74 Paul Siever G Penn State
4 112 Chris Hakel QB William & Mary
6 168 Ray Rowe TE San Diego State
7 196 Calvin Holmes -- USC
8 224 Darryl Moore G Texas-El Paso
9 252 Boone Powell LB Texas
10 280 Tony Barker LB Rice
11 308 Terry Smith -- Penn State
12 336 Matt Elliott C Michigan

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1993 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Tom Carter CB Notre Dame
2 45 Reggie Brooks RB Notre Dame
3 71 Rick Hamilton LB Central Florida
3 80 Ed Bunn -- Texas-El Paso
4 101 Sterling Palmer DE Florida State
5 128 Greg Huntington C Penn State
6 155 Darryl Morrison DB Arizona
6 160 Frank Wycheck HB Maryland
8 212 Lamont Hollinquest LB USC

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1994 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 3 Heath Shuler QB Tennessee
2 31 Tre' Johnson T Temple
3 68 Tydus Winans WR Fresno State
3 97 Joe Patton G Alabama A&M
4 105 Kurt Haws TE Utah
6 163 Dexter Nottage DE Florida A&M
7 197 Gus Frerotte QB Tulsa

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1995 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Michael Westbrook WR Colorado
2 37 Cory Raymer C Wisconsin
3 68 Darryl Pounds DB Nicholls State
4 103 Larry Jones RB Miami (Fla.)
5 137 Jamie Asher TE Louisville
5 152 Rich Owens DE Lehigh
6 176 Brian Thure T California
7 226 Scott Turner DB Illinois

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1996 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Andre Johnson T Penn State
4 102 Stephen Davis RB Auburn
5 138 Leomont Evans DB Clemson
6 174 Kelvin Kinney DE Virginia State
7 215 Jeremy Asher -- Oregon
7 250 DeAndre Maxwell -- San Diego State

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1997 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Kenard Lang DE Miami (Fla.)
2 51 Greg Jones LB Colorado
3 80 Derek M. Smith OLB Arizona State
4 115 Albert Connell WR Texas A&M
5 132 Jamel Williams DB Nebraska
5 140 Keith Thibodeaux DB Northwestern State-Louisiana
5 148 Twan Russell LB Miami (Fla.)
5 162 Brad Badger G Stanford

A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era (1978-1998), from NFL.com draft history (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history).

1998 - Washington Redskins Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 48 Stephen Alexander TE Oklahoma
3 69 Skip Hicks RB UCLA
4 113 Shawn Barber LB Richmond
5 140 Mark Fischer C Purdue
6 170 Patrick Palmer -- Northwestern State-Louisiana
7 191 David Terrell CB Texas-El Paso
7 206 Antwaune Ponds LB Syracuse

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

...or come in 13th just like UGA.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 5, 2009 8:34 PM

Sad part is UGA still finished ahead of Tech. If only Tech could have played Georgia again in a bowl game, instead of LSU.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 5, 2009 9:23 PM

Yea, whatr you gonna do though? We looked like a rambling wreck.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 5, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Beathard and Casserly got a few good hits ... but free agency was bery bery good to the Skins in that era.

++++
We cannot afford to smash Portis for 16 games. We don't have the O-Line and he doesn't have the durability.

Do ya'll agree?

SICWIDIT +++++

Total agreement on Portis. Said it at the start of the year ... he isn't a 16 game back. Betts is a quality backup. Feature Betts 4 games, Portis 12 games.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Ok, so now we have the historical records here.

First of all, it takes time make judgments on players. For example, Vernon Dean played in the 1983 Super Bowl, but then dropped off the map. He contributed his rookie season, but does that make him an automatic success? I don't think so, since he did not become a long-term starter. Keep this in mind for this year's draft picks (ahem, JLC).

Some drafts were absolute blockbusters, like the 1981 draft. Still took years to develop most of those players into the long-term starters they eventually became, but what a draft!

Other drafts were fairly weak, like the 1987 draft (only Brian Davis and Ed Simmons came out of that draft, and while these two players became good reserves and even capable starters, neither set the world on fire).

So let's give the 'skins some time to work through 2-3 more drafts before we start judging the Cerrato era, ok? By that time maybe JLC will be reassigned, but we'll still be around with the historical records to judge.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

hithere ... you are logical. Most on this board are fans and if we were logical, well, we'd be doing something useful like putting air in the spare tire.

Realistically, Vinny has been a part of draft selection for a long time. And most likely, he has been the key guy in draft picks. Some may fault Gibbs, but Vinny was the guy with the scouting department.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Osu is gonna win this game

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

I vividly remember watching the draft a few years back. Canty was on the board, a pretty solid defensive end who could potentially develop into an every-down player (and a somewhat local guy from UVA, no less). I was really hoping the Skins would pick him up.

We selected Manuel White Jr. Sweet.

Posted by: shasta_mcnasty | January 5, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Osu is gonna win this game

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

you were saying?

like i said, Texas gonna roll em in 2nd

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

And then I saw osu offense for the first time this year

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Big TEn is A-W-F-U-L. That's awful. They really need to start recruiting better in the south or they will never get back to where they were 5-10 yrs ago. About to go 1-6 in bowl games. Disgraceful.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

So let's give the 'skins some time to work through 2-3 more drafts before we start judging the Cerrato era, ok? By that time maybe JLC will be reassigned, but we'll still be around with the historical records to judge.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 5, 2009 10:22 PM
=============================================
No.

Our O.L. is old, and can't do its job anymore. This would be unpredictable, IF you are a complete moron.

That's all. Vinnie and Danny have failed 8 ways to hell. Their chance this year to begin fixing their mistakes? Four picks in a draft rich in offensive linemen. A 1st and a 3rd in the first four rounds.

So get to fixing, dumbSJKs. You have already forfeited whatever shamateur's claim you might have had to "give us some time".
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 5, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

the more i think about it, the more i'm convinced we should trade down. four picks ain't gonna do it.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 5, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Notorious -- awaiting your contest entries ... got til the end of the week or so

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Terry Robiskie's kid can catch a football.

Posted by: freakzilla | January 5, 2009 11:14 PM | Report abuse

But I'm still rooting for Texas. They've gotten shut out of everything this year, and deserve to win something.

Posted by: freakzilla | January 5, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

hithere1: I gather the point is Cerrato has actually done a much better job picking in seven round drafts than JLCs "executive source" Casserly...

His best picks were QB Gus Frerotte (7th round/1994)and RB Stephen Davis (4th round/1996)

Beathard almost always traded away the 1st round pick for veteran players. He only selected three 1st round picks, but they were excellent: Art Monk, Mark May, and Darrell Green!

The past history does illustrate that the draft is a total crap shoot. An NFL team has to have a balanced methodology when it comes to obtaining players. They primarily use the draft to add young depth by selecting the player they have evaluated as the best available. Teams use free agency to sign veteran players that fill critical holes and provide additional depth. Player trades are relatively rare...

Posted by: siris | January 5, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes I read it as "hi there 1" and some other times I read it as "hit here 1". There's no rhyme or reason to it. I usually don't even realize it until a beat or two later. It's kind of like when

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

anyone else notice desean jackson's 30 yard punt return late in the game vs Minn? He had 30 yards of open field before 1 guy got in his way. The punter. So jackson just cruises out of bounds, 5 yards from anyone. He has talent, but zero heart. Guys like that don't last in the NFL.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 5, 2009 11:31 PM | Report abuse

I noticed that, but on the replay I thought it appeared that Jackson had stepped out of bounds, the whistle blew, and then he let up.

Not that I want to be a Jackson defender. The clown saved my fantasy bacon the first few weeks (despite dropping off a TD reception a yard short), but was a big fat zero when I needed him in December.

Posted by: daggar | January 5, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

hithere:

First a correction:

You said:

"First of all, it takes time make judgments on players. For example, Vernon Dean played in the 1983 Super Bowl, but then dropped off the map. He contributed his rookie season, but does that make him an automatic success?"

Vernon Dean played for the Skins for 5 seasons, was a starter for at least He was part of teams that won 2 superbowls played in 3. He started 2. He was beaten out by draft pick Barry Wilburn. Hardly dropped off the map...

Sorry but your take is completely off base. First of all the league and its personal policies were much different in the Beatherd era. Also Beatherd liked to trade out of top picks and scout deep for free agents out of college or continue some of the over the hill tendancies of George Allen. He was a wizard at poaching USFL cast offs and excelled at what the time was called "Plan B free agency" Which was essentially scouring for gems on other teams rosters that they didn't "protect"

Do Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Stan Humphries ring a bell? All three got teams to the superbowl.

Beatherd and Casserly got 4 teams to superbowls, won three....nuff said.

(not even counting Beatherds work with Chargers)

Sorry but cut and pasting some lists does not an argument make.

To equate Ceratto to Beatherd gets you elected Mayor of Tardville

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

should read:

was a starter for at least 4 seasons..

when it comes to leaving out words, grammar and spelling...I am def mayor of tardville....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Equating Cerrato to Beathard is folly, cL, because the eras were so different. Equating Cerrato to Scott Pioli, though, that's spot on... same era, same methodology, same brilliance, same results.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 5, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

Well, (Pioli - Brady) = (Cerrato + Zorn) = (Home for the Holidays)...

Posted by: daggar | January 5, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Or even more galling:

(Pioli - Brady) = (Cerrato + Zorn)

Posted by: daggar | January 5, 2009 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Equating Cerrato to Beathard is folly, cL, because the eras were so different.

exactly...

oh and the jack in SJK...is now known as "zjfr2"

Posted by: chrislarry | January 5, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

ewww, lost the control character there... let's try again..

(Pioli - Brady) = (Cerrato + Zorn) (Gibbs + Collins)

Posted by: daggar | January 6, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

wow, the preview pane lies too!

(Pioli - Brady) = (Cerrato + Zorn) {less than} (Gibbs + Collins)

Posted by: daggar | January 6, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

It sure is awfully nice that all those wonderful assistant coaches working in Dallas and New England didn't have to wait for their teams to wrap up their doggone playoff runs before they started interviewing for head coach jobs, isn't it? May those staffs be decimated and those teams plummet to the bottom of their respective divisions next year. (A man can dream...)

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 6, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Loks like the 'skins got the wrong Colt. Figures.

Posted by: TheCork | January 6, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

The list of great Texas QBs in the NFL is almost as long as the list of great OSU QBs in the NFL.

Posted by: daggar | January 6, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins owner and personnel director don't know what they're doing. That's why, with all the money spent in ten years all it has bought is consistent mediocrity.--John Feinstein

Yup.

Another sportswriter for the Snyderatto Crew to hate on for being right.

Posted by: TheCork | January 6, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Millen did not get it either, otherwise he would not have wasted 4 straight high first round picks on WR.

Posted by: Flounder21 |

Lessee. four WRs two of whom have been more than decent. What's Cerrato's % in that regard?

Posted by: TheCork | January 6, 2009 12:39 AM | Report abuse

+++If Cerrato is spending #13 on the OLine then I am buying. Just hope it isn't a reach at that juncture of the draft. ++++


I hope not. I got a crisp new twenty says his first pick is a Shortstop.

Posted by: TheCork | January 6, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

We don't need to go Oline in the 1st round. Why?

We need to go playmaker and pick whoever is on the top of the board @ RB, DE, DT, or LB..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 6, 2009 2:16 AM | Report abuse

What this defense needs is the second coming of Griffin, Washington and Springs. I.E. a tackle that can demand double teams, a relatively unknown disciplined SAM who is equally effective against the run as rushing the passer and a corner who can play both zone and man whether he's on the outside or the slot.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 6, 2009 2:36 AM | Report abuse

If we do draft a DE, he will have to be at least 280 pounds. This defense requires the ends to take on blockers not avoid them.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 6, 2009 2:42 AM | Report abuse

What this defense needs is a DE who understands the binary language of moisture vaporators.

Posted by: freakzilla | January 6, 2009 4:00 AM | Report abuse

Daniels is rehabbing well from surgery and I'd rather keep him around at $2 million, despite his age and injuries, than gamble again on Taylor. (Did they learn nothing from the latter years of the Bruce Smith debacle?)

By Jason La Canfora | January 5, 2009; 10:48 AM ET

So you'd rather keep a guy who is old and injury prone for a guy who is old but was hurt for the first time in his career? You ask JT to reduce his salary and if he says no cut him. But you have to at least TRY to keep him so you get SOMETHING out of that trade.

As for the Bruce Smith "debacle": when was that a debacle? He was the only FA from the Class of 2000 that even halfway worked out! Other than his last season where he chased the QB at the expense of the run to get the sack record, dude was better than any single pass rusher we've had since then. Not sure what makes him a "debacle".

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 6, 2009 5:45 AM | Report abuse

I got a crisp new twenty says his first pick is a Shortstop.

Posted by: TheCork | January 6, 2009 12:44 AM

Before you take a twenty from Cork, make sure you rub it with a magic marker like they do in WalMart. Five well get you ten that it's a phony and it catches fire or something bad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 6, 2009 6:14 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

RUMORS FLY OF NOLAN TO PACKERS
Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2009, 8:53 p.m. EST
The best thing about the most obvious, superficial analyses of NFL coaching connections is that, sometimes they’re accurate.

We suggested last night that former 49ers coach Mike Nolan could be the next defensive coordinator in Green Bay, due to the fact that Packers coach Mike McCarty worked as Nolan’s offensive coordinator in 2005.

A league source tells us that Nolan curently is in the process of lining up a staff of assistants, and the thinking is that Nolan will be the next defensive coordinator of the Packers.

The Packers announced on Monday the termination of defensive coordinator Bob Sanders and four defensive assistants.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 6, 2009 6:27 AM | Report abuse

hithere1 takes issue: For all who want to judge Vinny Cerato’s drafting (ahem, this includes you, JLC), let’s do it with an eye towards history:...A review of Redskins drafts during the Beathard-Casserly GM era..."

What, you dare to bring factual information into a sports argument? What happened to 'QB Sucks!!!" And 'Fire The Coach!!!'

Hithere1 and Siris are absolutely correct about the Beathard / Casserly era, as Bob and Charley would be first to admit. Sometimes you know what you're doing; sometimes you're shooting craps. by the way, I wonder how many of the 'misses' from that era turned out to be Tony Mandarich-style steroid-boosted linemen. It was common back then. Still is, I imagine. Nowadays people watch more closely for the signs, but then again, the players are a lot better at masking it.

As for free agency: no fair describing Vinny as dumber because Jason Taylor had a poor season. At the time of the trade, virtually everybody in the coaching fraternity agreed it as a smart risk. If almost every GM would have made the same mistake, then you have to assume it's like Congress voting to invade Iraq -- they were all reading the same bad intelligence. Parcells wanted Taylor out of Miami because he thought he'd gone Hollywood, not because he couldn't play.

Speaking of Parcells: he got considerable praise for signing Ernest Wilford, who went on to make Malcolm Kelly look productive at WR. So is Parcells an idiot?

I'd ask if anybody here thought they could do better over a five year period, but of course, EVERY FAN is absolutely, positively sure they could.

Me? I think it's a crapshoot.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2009 6:47 AM | Report abuse

Me? I think it's a crapshoot.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 6, 2009 6:47 AM

True...but Vinny doesn't get a mulligan because his predecessors had a mixed bag of results. Baltimore, New England and Pittsburgh can draft well and build annual playoff contenders and Vinny should be held accountable for not adding his name to that list.

The main problem here is the failure to address the line. The picks Vinny's made have been decent overall. Where the problem lies is the refusal to draft and cultivate talent to protect the passer and rush the passer. The great teams do that and it hasn't happened here AT ALL in recent years. Taking 2 safeties in the top 10 twice in 3 years is unacceptable when your biggest defensive need is pass rushing end, regardless of how good the safeties are.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 6, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

Hey chrislarry,

Sure, I'll be mayor of Tardville. I'll swing by your place first to thank you for electing me.

('Cause you already live there, get it? Thought you might need some help on that one. You're welcome!)

You're right about Vernon Dean. Good call.

Cutting and pasting the draft stuff is so that all of us can look at the record easily as we start talking about the draft. Get it? It's like history and stuff! Pretty cool.

Last, any GM can be compared to any other GM. Why can't they? I never said Cerrato was a BETTER GM than Casserly or Beathard. But they all have pretty much the same titles and responsibilities, so why not compare them?

Maybe you can explain it to me when I drop by.

AlL thE BesT,

HItHerE1

Posted by: hithere1 | January 6, 2009 7:33 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: columbiard | January 6, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

"The Redskins owner and personnel director don't know what they're doing. That's why, with all the money spent in ten years all it has bought is consistent mediocrity.--John Feinstein

Yup.

Another sportswriter for the Snyderatto Crew to hate on for being right."

--TheCork
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey TheCork,

Take a look back at the 'skins record from 1993 to 1998, the years Norv Turner was the coach, Casserly was the GM, and Snyder did not yet own the team. Go ahead, look up the records, I'll wait for you...

...and they were pretty terrible, huh? Way under .500. So mediocrity is at least a step up from that era of horribleness, hmmm?

Seriously, I agree that Snyder has been "learning the trade" on our time and our dime(s$). And that sucks, I hate it.

But let's see how this new arrangement with Cerrato pans out - it's his first year as a true GM. Shottenheimer had control over personnel (and fired Cerrato); Gibbs had a lot of control too, etc. Let's give their new "plan" a couple more seasons. If it is not working, we'll be able to see. But one season of 8-8 seems inconclusive to me.
Not to JLC of course, but to me.

Posted by: hithere1 | January 6, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Who knew we were going to revisit the 1979 draft?? I sure didn't coming in this morning...

Anyway, watched the Fiesta Bowl, couple guys stood out, Orakpo for Texas, man that cat is quick off the edge. Dockery, G for Texas, didn't really stand out, could be a later round pick. For OH St. Boone got exposed by Orakpo, but he does that to everyone, Boone might be better suited to RT, than LT.

Thats all I've got....beacon of negativity up in this place....

To quote Rick Pitino, "Vernon Dean isn't walking through that door, and if he does, he's gonna be old, and grey".....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 6, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Columbiard,

While I agree with the spirit of this petition, I'll need the author of it to update that. Poorly written and the facts included are dated or skewed. If I sign something like a petition I'm going to need it to be a document that the powers-that-be will take seriously.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 6, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

beantowngreg - you don't see us needing another WR? Henderson has good size and probably wouldn't be too much $$..... Santana can't do it all himself... the other 4 WRs don't add up to ONE WR on another team.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I did not mean good size, I meant he was young... only 26 and 5'11".. Meachem is the big guy, but theyre not giving him up....

but if 11 and 12 ever develop, theyll be our big guys.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

ryp, maybe they do, but what they need is for the WR coach to get MK/DT up to speed, and turn them into viable weapons that are an integral part of the offense. To bring in a #2 receiver, would be once again under-utilizing these 2 players.

Realistically they need ARE to go to #4, MK, and DT to step up to #2, and #3, and bring in a #5, who can fill in returning kicks, and play teams.

Not sure that that person is Devrey Henderson.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 6, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Draft a quarterback who can keep the Redskins' defense off the field. Even young defensive ends get tired if they're on the field constantly.

Posted by: doolindalton | January 6, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

We need to draft a new village idiot to replace.... people who want to draft a QB... Vinny... Larry... whatever

Posted by: alex35332 | January 6, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

beantown, you are right about that.... but ARE's time is almost up (if its not already).. and if MK and DT don't produce this year, I shudder to think about how our offense will look.... we're going to need another WR at some point definitely....

But it would be nice to bring a speed guy in who can be a WR/PR/KR.... and a speed guy to spell CP... I think we may have to look that way in the draft in the next couple years....

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 6, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Get a grip !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 6, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

"It's like history and stuff! Pretty cool."

Its selective history without context or relevance. Plus it had factual inaccuracies that were a basis for a rationale.

Better luck next time champ....excellent keystroke skills though, I haven't seen copy n paste like that since email forwards during te eletion.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so here is my Q... why cant we sign Hall and keep CR22 under his current contract? With a new CBA he becomes restricted FA in 2010... which then we can cut with minimal penalty...

I wouldnt break the bank with Hall, give him enough, if he doesnt stay then let CR prove he is worth an extension.

I am sick of us worrying about a player getting away and throwing money at them.

The one time we did the right thing, Dockery walked, but ever since then and previosu to that we have never used this approach.

Talk about giving up befre a strategy has a chance to work...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 6, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Where is Orakpo slated to go in the draft? If Vernon Gholston went top 5, I'd assume the same for Orakpo. Texas was getting destroyed on the run in the first half of that game. I don't really like Laurenitis. He has Bobby Carpenter written all over him.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | January 6, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

To Hell With The Redskins!
To Hell With Mediocrity!
Vinny is a jack***!
Get 'em of our DC!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 6, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Posse81_83_84 I get the same feeling regarding Laurenitis. Orakpo is projected as mid first rounder so far.

Posted by: TWISI | January 6, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"I am sick of us worrying about a player getting away and throwing money at them.

Posted by: Zeebs"

When has that ever been the case? Can you name one player on this roster that needed money "thrown at him" so that they wouldn't leave?

The only players we've thrown money at are free agents from OTHER teams and currently under contract veterans in order to provide cap relief, not because we were afraid they'd leave. I can think of one player in the last 10 years that we broke the bank to keep on this roster -- Lavar Arrington -- and the FO knew very well what that would cost (i.e. Champ Bailey).

I can, however, think of numerous players this FO let walk in order to avoid having to pay them (cue the list of names that makes everyone freak out...)

Posted by: psps23 | January 6, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Wasn't impressed with Malcom Jenkins or Lauraunintus from the 2 1/2 quarters I watched last night.

I kept waiting to see one make a play and never really did. They played good I guess, but definitely not first round good.

Orakpo was abusing the projected 3rd round OT Alex Boone last night though, and he impressed me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 6, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

also, wtf with those old *** drafts? I read like two of 'em and didn't recognize one name. I'm too young, gramps!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 6, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

We need a miracle.


Posted by: matthewvickers | January 6, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"I'm too young, gramps!

the truth11"


We know, we know....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 6, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

chris larry micheals

coincidence?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 6, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

nOT ONE OF OUR PLAYERS psps, A fa>... DAMN CAPS

Posted by: Zeebs | January 6, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, saying a player getting away indicates we had them, i meant a FA from getting away/./

Posted by: Zeebs | January 6, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Orakpo is the #1 rated DL in the draft, scout.com has him at #6 overall. I haven't seen a mock that has him lower than #11.

6'4", 260 lbs.... what are Jason Taylor's stats again?

Posted by: daggar | January 6, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

I could easily see Orakpo in a DeMarcus Ware role, he'd fit more into a 3-4 lb, than in a traditional 4-3.

That being said, I bet he blows it up at the Combine, and runs a 4.6 and bench's what JM considers a warmup, and some team over-drafts the guy.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 6, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The Truth is considering declaring for the draft.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 6, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

beep beep coming right up...

Posted by: Cindy Boren | January 6, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

http://www.eitmonline.com/live.html

cooleys last interview of the season...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 6, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Sign Cardinals DE Antonio Smith for say $16 mill over 4/5 years; prorate part of it as a signing bonus so it dissuades their cheap owner from matching.

Trade the #13 pick to the Pats for their 1st rounder and one (maybe both) of their second rounders.

With those 3 or 4 picks in the first 2 rounds get an OL, LB and DL. Skins need a bonanza draft to take the next step. Stay wise with free agent spending again this March Vinny.

Posted by: elfreako | January 6, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"Orakpo was abusing the projected 3rd round OT Alex Boone last night though, and he impressed me"

I think in the pro's, Boone either ends up inside at G, or on the right side. Orakpo ran around him a couple times...Boone has size, 6'8, 320, going for him.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 6, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Back in the day we were known as shrewd deal makers and evaluators of talent ...our personel philospy started with george allen who traded away picks for veterans ...that continued to beathard/gibbs who mixed veterans with low round picks and budget fa's...but we hit more than we missed, althought we missed alot. but every team misses, the key is to have a framework read (idenity) to build around, we had that with allen, it faded under pardee, was restablished by gibbs and has been lost forever under snyder.... that is the essance of our situation.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | January 6, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Slide Montgomery to the outside opposite Demetric Evans. Draft a 350 pound bull - or two - for the middle. Let Carter, Taylor, Daniels and Griffin seek greyer pastures. I could also see the Redskins using a 3-4 defense where they slide Carter back to a linebacker spot (with Blades, Fletcher and McIntosh) and let Evans, Montgomery and Golston play the line. This would give them more options in the draft while getting younger. Either way, Daniels, Taylor and Griffin should be definite cuts. Those guys are overpaid, over-injured, and under-performing. Shooting for a big name free agent is what the Skins should not do. It hasn't worked in the past. Why would it work now? It would be better for them to draft some talent and sign some brown bagging free agent.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 6, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Nevermind the fact that the Redskins are in no way, shape, or form set up to switch to a 3-4 defense.

Shoot, I love the 3-4 and would love to see the Redskins switch to it...But doing so now would turn our top 5 defense into a porous failure. We do not have the type of D-Line personnel to run a 3-4. Our DT's / Ends are too small, our OLB's are too slow, and only one of our LB's is real quality (Fletcher of course). Blades is a career backup at best (and would be victimized on the outside) and McIntosh is inconsistent, slow, and on degenerating knees. Even utilizing JT as the 4th (rushing) backer we would still be two backers short of acceptable.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

these "skins by position:" series should be just one post. "skins by position: they suck at every position".

btw those of us who thought santa was a #1 receiver in this league were wrong. he's a good #2. he needs a #1 to thrive THE WHOLE season. his seasons here have been sporadic. as soon as teams start to pay attention to him his numbers plummet. or if the running game stops his numbers plummet.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

How do you explain his 1500yd season in 2005 with no other WR's to complement him? I think its more the fact that you have to find him more creative ways to get him the ball then him not being a #1. He's shown he can take over games like few others can, but when you got him running 5 yard crossing routes, its hard for any #1 to be much of a factor.


With Mark Brunell as the QB nonetheless. Who cares about Wide Receivers? Many of the best ones are done for the year. San Diego marches up and down the field throwing to Gates and Sproles, Miami made big plays to Cobbs, the Eagles couldn't run the ball, so they dumped it to Westbrook for a 71 yard TD. Who are there scary receivers anyway? How about the Titans? The Falcons receivers were bums until they got a QB who cold throw to them.

The Skins need to get with the program and employ a 3 back system (like the Ravens and Giants) and they need to get the backs involved in the passing game. If Moss was really being double-teamed so much downfield, then get the ball to Cooley, Betts, Portis or even Cartwright. I bet if rock got the ball in space a few times each game he'd take it to the house every once in a while.

Or here's an idea... play the rookies who are far more talented than Thrash and ARE... spare me the garbage that they're too dumb to learn the playbook. No one can be dumber that DeSean Jackson and he had a very productive rookie season. Coach 'me up. It ain't the receivers... it's the poor play calling from a guy who was a 55 year old QB coach last year. He got figured out and couldn't adjust.

Posted by: saqster | January 6, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

So when The Skins lost their starting DE on the first day of training camp in July...There must have been better options to trade for than Taylor? I don't recall anyone that was better on the market....Plus if I recall....JLC was loving the move at the time.....BTW and most importantly...It was an emergency and they had now choice....and I would want then to do it again if it were July and Daniels was out.

Also give Taylr a break...He was injured most of the year and One injury almost ended his career.....

Who knows what Taylor will play like next year, healthy and looking to proove himself after a season in which Taylor was quaotyed as saying he didn't earn his money and in embarressed.....

Get a grip and write about what the approach is for the team and what THEY are planning...NOT what the beat writer thinks or what HE would do.....

Posted by: leevi98 | January 6, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Before bashing the skins for signing Jason Taylor last year - let's remember WHY we signed him ok?
It was not an offseason spending spree.. they were good about that last year (admit it) JT filled a hole for an unexpected injury. I would bet the plan was to Never keep him around for a second season.
He was the best available at the time.

Posted by: my1xrulz | January 6, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

when i think of a #1 receiver i think of a guy who can give me a first down on 3rd and 8. 3rd and 7. a "go to" guy. moss is too much of a barry sanders for me and not enough emmit smith. you could always count on emmit to get you 4 yards meanwhile not so much with barry.

i think watching monk, rice and irvin sorta spoiled me.

yeah all discussions are tarded except for one: ineptitude of vinny!

btw...will the skins collapse begining of the season or at the end of the season next year? my guess is begining of the season.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 5, 2009 11:46 AM

Dealer,
If Barry Sanders and Emmit Smith had switched teams for their careers, you would have seen a very big difference in their career stats. Irvin, Monk, and Rice were great players, but it is no coincidence that they all had great supporting casts, without whom they would not have reached the All Pro level they achieved. Mainly, they all had O lines ranging from good to great.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 6, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Agree that we must draft a top defensive line prospect. But that doesn't mean we should give up on JT. The guy's been a Hall of Fame caliber DE and is a truly class act and leader in the locker room. Give him a healthy start next year and see what happens.

Posted by: StevefromSacto | January 5, 2009 6:23 PM

I said at the time that D Evans should be given the starting LE slot, with Wilson coming in on obvious passing downs. Good things always seem to happen when Evans and Alexander are on the line. And Wilson often seems to blow past blockers when he is in. Maybe they wouldn't have met the challenge. But they would have been given a well earned shot, we would have all had the excitement of watching two home grown young guys grow up fast, with both the tears and cheers, and I'll betcha the production from LE would have been better, and we'd still have a 2nd rounder this draft.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 6, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

It all doesn't matter. As long as Vinny is going to keep all of his draft picks, wheather they can play or not, we're screwed. Also, i don't think west coast offense is effective in Washington or anywhere. Defenses have caught up with it around the league. We're screwed from a front office, scouting, philosphy, coaching and player standpoint. We're going to struggle until Vinny leaves or Dan sales the team and Vinny gets fired. That's what happens when you let a hall of famer headcoach leave and you replace him with a rookie head coach. Also, how come the Redskins won't bring in someone who knows about football??? Isn't there someone out there that knows more than Dan and Vinny?
Im a diehard but I don't see this team going anywhere in the next 4 to 5 years.

Posted by: bmerrion | January 7, 2009 2:43 AM | Report abuse

The DE position on the Danoboys is a perfect example of a front office without a bloody clue!!!

No, they didn't learn a thing from the Bruce Smith thing. Or for that Stubblefield and Wilkinson (Munch & Lunch).

No, they didn't learn a thing from the wasted 2nd round pick on Taylor.

No, they still think everything is working smoothly at the Danoland Park.

They should have a statue of the See-no, Hear-no, Speak-no-monkeys - on display at the Park instead of showing off the three trophies JCK earned.

An old, overpaid defensive line is what the Danoboys have & it matches their old, overpaid offensive line. Frankly, the whole darned team - from owner/GM on down is pretty darned offensive!

Posted by: duru44 | January 7, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

When Wilson got in the game he brought more pressure than Carter or Taylor.

When folks wake up and realize this team is far from Superbowl potential, you will see what Snyder and Cerrato are all about. fans fall for that they are just a piece away junk every off season. this team has holes. WR is not the biggest hole. the LINES are bad and they have no speed at LB.

Posted by: oknow1 | January 7, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

we can trade rodgers while he has value to get another early pick.with the 13th selection we take either a Dt or De and later we address Cb position there are a lot of Db in the draft with size i might add and also there is safety from Usc who has the size and ability of our late brother shawn he is 6ft3 and fast.he brings the wood as well.we also cannot forget about our Oline we need JC on his feet and standing tall in the pocket.ok i pray that we can get anquon boldin via free agency he will open things up for moss and randle el.those rookies who could not come to camp in shape can return punts.

Posted by: dlrckp | January 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

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