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Redskins by Position: Interior Offensive Line

Some of this will sound like a broken record after two weeks of going over the entire roster. But we have come to a place where, without a doubt, there is an immediate need. The Redskins have just one proven guard - Randy Thomas - under contract for 2009 and he's coming off neck surgery.

Despite arthritic knees that forced him to miss nearly every Wednesday practice, starting left guard Pete Kendall managed to get through two seasons without missing a game, but his lateral quickness and pulling ability greatly diminished last season, limiting some of what can be done in the run game. Even Pete knows that his spot is the most obvious place for the youth movement to begin. Thirty-six-year-old offensive linemen are not exactly building blocks for the future.

He wants to play - he believes he can still start - and probably can make it through another season. But that will likely be it and at some point the offensive line needs to be about more than stopgap measures. Kendall won't come all that cheaply and this would seem to be the place and time at which last year's third-round draft pick, Chad Rinehart, sinks or swims.

I'm still surprised that the kid did not get a single snap despite being a high pick. You'd think he would be able to play some. Rinehart had a nice opening three weeks of training camp, but his play dropped off significantly in the later stages against better opponents. And when the Redskins put him at tackle, where he played well in college, it was pretty ugly. If he can't give them anything as a left guard, tucked between stalwarts Casey Rabach and Chris Samuels, then there isn't any place he could start.

You have to make him earn the job, and I'm sure someone will be signed as a bargain free agent to push Rinehart, but this should be his spot. The Redskins have to find a long-term replacement for Derrick Dockery, one of only two linemen (offensive or defensive) the team has taken in the first three rounds of the draft since 2000. (Dockery left as a free agent in 2006, getting a ridiculous contract with Buffalo.) That's two linemen picked high over nine drafts.

A year from now, the Redskins could very well be looking at a similar process at right guard. Thomas slowed down in the second half, ended up needing surgery for the third time in four years and he, too, was not as effective pulling. The right side of the line was pushed around at times by physical defenses, and Thomas is going to need some help from whoever ends up starting at right tackle (and I'm assuming that's not Jon Jansen or Stephon Heyer).

Rabach is still the linchpin, although for the first time there were a few cracks in his game. He committed more penalties and had some significant problems with big 3-4 nose tackles (most people do, especially those who are more athletic than bulky, as Casey is). He was getting little help from his teammates at times and being asked to do a lot. He plays through pretty much all pain and has been vital to Jason Campbell's growth reading defenses and making checks and adjustments. He is the glue to the line and should have two or three more strong seasons.

The problem is that no one is ready to back him up. The Redskins failed to address this spot a year ago despite there being several good candidates in the draft. Justin "The Geyser" Geisinger made some strides this season, but suffered a season-ending injury when he was asked to play left tackle against Terrell Suggs with no tight end help against Baltimore. In a pinch the plan has been to use Kendall or Jansen at center, but that's hardly a solution. Maybe Geisinger will be a player, at least a solid swingman to be a back-up center or guard. It's tough not to root for the kid, if for no reason other than that you can look at him and see that he has maximized every ounce of natural ability and production from his frame. He is a real worker and I hope he sticks around.

But if Kendall leaves and Rinehart steps into a starting role, there will remain a need for a youngster to fill some gaps on the second team. I don't expect Jason Fabini to be back. Will Montgomery was signed to hold a roster spot in the final few weeks after Geisinger went down, but he's a journeyman who will be looking for a chance to get to camp and compete a bit at best.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 13, 2009; 9:51 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Springs a Washingtonian of the Year

Comments

My revamped offseason plan:

Resign Hall, Evans, Gholston, Monte
Cut Springs, Griff, Washington, Taylor
Do nothing with Rogers, he's under contract and returns to start with Hall, if he shuts up, mans up and plays well, extend him, if not replace him next year.

Sign Grady Jackson or Gabe Watson or both

Sign two of:
Farrior
Barton
Dansby
Crowder

Convert to a 3-4 defense with Jackson/Watson at nose and Gholston, Monte, Alexander, Daniels rotating at ends with Evans in on obvious passing downs.

Have Carter, Wilson, Jackson as your standup blitzers with a combo of Blades, Fincher, McIntosh, Fletcher, and your two signees fill out a deep LB core. (which should also make special teams stronger)

Use the money you saved by not having to go after Suggs, Haynesworth, or Peppers and go get Boldin and Sproles or Ward.

Draft the best Tackle on the board at 13. Draft a guard in the 3rd. Grab a center in the 5th, and in the 6th take the biggest fattest nose tackle you can find and groom him to be the eventual replacement to Jackson/Watson.

Done, by virtue of 3 or 4 very reasonable signings on defense you transform into a unit that has a much better shot getting pressure, and saves you money to add two serious playmakers to the unit that really needs it. Boldin extends Moss' value and career, and Sproles or Ward adds a true home run hitter to the backfield and extends CP's value by reducing his workload.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

oh yeah, I forgot, sign a real punter, and any freaking other kicker, you can't say suisham wasn't a problem when he was the worst kicker in the league!

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Could I be first?!

Draft Taylor Mays!

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

first

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Dammit!

Ah well.

I don't agree that guard is the most pressing need. My recollection is that pressure was coming from the ends, not the middle of the pocket.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

yeah changing our entire defensive scheme to a 3-4 when the scheme isn't even the problem, not sure that's a great move. I'm pretty positive Blache isn't down with the 3-4. With regards to the other picks... I think that MIGHT work in Madden but doubtful we can make a play on those FA's this offseason.

Posted by: trolly_time | January 13, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

yeah changing our entire defensive scheme to a 3-4 when the scheme isn't even the problem, not sure that's a great move. I'm pretty positive Blache isn't down with the 3-4. With regards to the other picks... I think that MIGHT work in Madden but doubtful we can make a play on those FA's this offseason.

Posted by: trolly_time | January 13, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I know the 3-4 will never happen, to big a change, just what I would like to see with our personnel, but to say a scheme that produced barely 20 sacks and 18 turnovers in an entire season isn't a problem is pretty much ignoring the truth. We have the best defense that nobody is scared to play because they know their QB won't have to wash his jersey after the game. If it wasn't for Hall despite JC having the lowest number of picks in the league we still would have had a negative turnover ratio. That's pathetic.

And why is Boldin and Sproles or Ward a Madden free agent class but everyone just assumes we can get Haynesworth, Peppers, or Suggs if we want to.....Any of the three of them will cost more than Boldin or Sproles or Ward.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Jasno's commentary is dead on about the left guard situation.

NFL teams send safeties, quick-shifting linebackers, and stunting speed rushers at left guards.

Left guards chip from a tackle and then go downfield to block on running stretch plays to the right.

With a left-handed running team like the Skins, the guard has to drive-block or 'hook' a defensive tackle.

The Skins used to run the 'power-O' trap play where the left guard and fullback led a back to the right side of the slanting o-line: that's where Betts excelled as a runner when the team needed him.

They don't run that play any more.

In other words, the left-tackle has to be a big, athletic guy who can moves his feet and go downfield.

In 2003, the Redskins drafted a guy very adapt at all these skills: Derrick Dockery.

The team let him go for reasons that now don't make sense given the money and picks used to get the very pedestrian Pete Kendall.

Yes: give Rhino a shot and see if he can grow into the position like Dockery did.

If a rt is the first pick, perhaps the 3rd round pick should be a guy who can play left guard and center.

That's where Loadholdt--Oklahoma comes in.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Done, by virtue of 3 or 4 very reasonable signings on defense you transform into a unit that has a much better shot getting pressure, and saves you money to add two serious playmakers to the unit that really needs it. Boldin extends Moss' value and career, and Sproles or Ward adds a true home run hitter to the backfield and extends CP's value by reducing his workload.


Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:15 AM |

ZJ genious, ZJ super Genious

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

zj, you've made your point, numerous times, regarding switching to the 3-4. Nicely done might I add, but instead of trading for Boldin, can't we trade for a combination of Tom Brady and Albert Pujols. Brady would become the skins starting qb, and Pujols would become the Nats first basemen.

Its PURE GENIOUS!!! First dual-sport trade in SPORTS HISTORY!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Here's a question: why wouldn't Jansen make a good backup center?
a) He's still a heckuva run blocker
b) He's certainly experienced enough to understand anything the defense could throw at him scheme-wise
c) His lack of lateral mobility would be nearly completely mitigated by being in the middle
d) He's big enough to put up a fight against DTs
e) No one wants to see him starting at tackle anymore, but he's not going anywhere, so why not get something out of him?

Posted by: PatM1 | January 13, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Boldin wants out, wants to get paid, they have to decide on resigning Warner as well and have already paid Fitz a ton of money, can't pay them both that way, we almost got him last year, that's fine if you don't think he's realistic, Housh is a UFA, sign Housh and Sproles or Ward.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins 12th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

__ James Laurinaitis, LB Ohio St.

__ BJ Raji, DT Boston College

__ Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

__ Duke Robinson, OG Oklahoma

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Skins record this year under a new head coach (rookie), new defensive coordinator (vet), and new offensive coordinator (rookie), met my reasonable expectations ... 8-8.

Based on the current status of the offensive line, unless they both sign a starter-ready FA and use the first round pick on an OT and OG (either for either), then I reasonably expect a record of 7-9 or less ... and that Jason Campbell will not be healthy enough to start for every game.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

"Do nothing with Rogers, he's under contract and returns to start with Hall, if he shuts up, mans up and plays well, extend him, if not replace him next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 "

If Carlos Rogers "shuts up"? I can't remember Carlos ever running his mouth like you imply, other than saying he thinks he is a starter in this league, which he is, 100% no doubt.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

"Any of the three of them will cost more than Boldin"

-------

(1) Boldin isn't a free agent

(2) If Boldin gets traded or released, he'll end up signing one of the richest WR deals ever. My guess is ballpark Larry Fitzgerald's contract (somewhere close to $9-10 million a year).

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

If Oher slips to 13, you have to take him there.

Posted by: PatM1 | January 13, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

... why wouldn't Jansen make a good backup center? ...

Posted by: PatM1 | January 13, 2009 10:35 AM

Shotgun snapping as a specialized skill?

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one whos not comfortable with ANYONE on our line right now?

Jansen/Heyer are garbage.

Thomas was getting bullied the end of last year and he is old with a RIDICULOUS salary for his ability. Unfortunately he isnt going anywhere for two years.

Rabach is ok, but he only has one year left, is past his prime, and we have no one to back him up.

Kendall is gone, and Rhino hasn't shown anything.

Samuels made pro bowl, but he is on the downhill.... still our best lineman, but gets beat more and more each year.

We need to go into next year with TWO new lineman AT LEAST.... LG and RT to replace Kendall and Jansen.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins 12th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

__ James Laurinaitis, LB Ohio St.

__ BJ Raji, DT Boston College

__ Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

__ Duke Robinson, OG Oklahoma

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009 10:37 AM |

RB,

We have the 13 pick, not the 12th

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins' 13th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

__ James Laurinaitis, LB Ohio St.

__ BJ Raji, DT Boston College

__ Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

__ Duke Robinson, OG Oklahoma

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I think the offseason preparation regimens of both former Auburn teammates (and Ashburn roommates) Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell need to include a heavy dose of meditation and/or yoga ... the both need to be able to slow down their mental clocks ... so that their required "moments" of concentration become longer ... Campbell for tracking receivers and Rogers for securing the pick.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

zj, along with Brady, the Wizards should get something in this deal.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

From the "audibles" section of Pro Football Weekly:

“Are the Redskins going to fire (executive VP/football operations) Vinny Cerrato for this mess? Are there any other executives hosting their own drive-time radio shows? He’s the laughingstock of D.C. Even the fans can figure out what the owner is too blind to see. As long as (Cerrato) is in the building, the Redskins have no chance.”

Gotta love our chances of picking up some interior line gems with these clowns making the picks.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Rypien11 - I think you summarized what everybody has been saying since about week 11, with a tweak here and there. (Most people's tweak would have been to flip-flop Rabach's and Thomas' descriptions.)

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins 12th pick in the first round:

Should read...Pick which ever DT or OL the Ravens are going after.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Who would have more value in a trade: Carlos Rogers or Jason Campbell?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins' 13th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

__ James Laurinaitis, LB Ohio St.

__ BJ Raji, DT Boston College

__ Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

__ Duke Robinson, OG Oklahoma

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009 10:43 AM |

Thank you now I will respond,

Oher: 1
Raji: 2
Jackson: 3
Robinson: would be a reach at 13 he's projected in the later part of the first if you trade down then he would be a good pick.
Laurinaitis: No thanks unless we could get him in the 3rd.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I could see the Skins holding onto Fabini for another year; he is a good backup and can play either guard spot. Plus, he's a year younger than Kendall and he's really close to CC47. Also, he didn't have a lot of wear on his knees this season. I see Rinehart taking over LG and Kendall being cut. Fabini can backup either G position. Did I mention that already? I think Rabach is fine for another 2-3 seasons also. We'll most likely draft a G with one of the later picks -- someone with youth to eventually replace Thomas.

I also believe that Heyer should start over Jansen. Unless of course if Jansen comes back 10 fold and dominates his position..... that's a big 'if'..

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

(1) Boldin isn't a free agent

(2) If Boldin gets traded or released, he'll end up signing one of the richest WR deals ever. My guess is ballpark Larry Fitzgerald's contract (somewhere close to $9-10 million a year).

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

1) your right- nevermind

but 2) 9-10 a year is less than the 17 mil a year that Peppers or Suggs franchise numbers will be and Haynesworth will come at a price higher than 9 mil too.


If Carlos Rogers "shuts up"? I can't remember Carlos ever running his mouth like you imply, other than saying he thinks he is a starter in this league, which he is, 100% no doubt.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

You're one to talk about mouth running, I came up with an idea and I'm talking about it, I didn't insult anyone or get mean and yet in your first sentence you have to be a jerk, but to your point, on Comcast postgame interviews twice Carlos was pretty up front about his dissatisfaction about dropping behind Springs and Hall, and while he may start in this league on a lot of teams, I'm sorry he was the third corner on our team when Springs and Hall are healthy. And also, he has always showboated here when since day one and still he can't cover a double move or catch a cold. He's an above average corner, who had no business saying that Hall or Springs shouldn't have been starting and he should. However, going forward, I'd rather have him than an old injury prone Springs, so if Springs is gone, and Carlos proves he can check his ego from last year and get back on the field and perform then extend him next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

On the survey, the obvious answer is Oher. He's got a great frame, is not a fat boy, athletic and still has potential, and he fills a pressing need.

None of the other guys on the list are worthy of a PBA-type selection.

Rinehart has to crack the starting lineup next year. I don't think you use a pick on a guard unless you're convinced Rinehart can't play.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Who would have more value in a trade: Carlos Rogers or Jason Campbell?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM |

JC

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

couple mock drafts I've seen :

1st : Ebon Britton OT
3rd : Cedrick Dockery OG
5th : Jon Cooper C
6th : Nader Adbdallah DT


1st : Ebon Britton OT
3rd : Vance Walker DT
5th : Ryan Reed OT
6th : OLB Lee Robinson

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

There is more to O'line blocking than keeping the QB's jersey clean. You need to open up passing lanes along with running lanes. Late in the season this was a problem.

Improving the D'line won't make a difference if the offense can't put points on the board. The Redskins need to pick up at least a tackle and a guard that can start for several years this off season before considering defensive changes. They can get reasonable defensive play out of what they have for another year. Yes, not likely to be top five but if the defense can play in the top 15 with decent offensive improvement they could be a 10-6 or so team. If they address the defense before fixing the O'line then they'll be 3-13 while losing a lot of games 13-10.

Posted by: elkiii_2008 | January 13, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

psps23 - you may be right about their abilities, but Rabach is only getting paid 3M+ with a small release fee for next two years.

Randy is getting paid 5M+ thru 2013!!!!!! And his release fees is over 5M for the next two years!!!!! Thats an insane crippling salary for an over the hill guard.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Redskins team needs :

QB
RB
WR
OL
DL
LB
CB
S
P
K
PR
KR
Coaching staff
General Manager
Owner

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

couple mock drafts I've seen :

1st : Ebon Britton OT
3rd : Cedrick Dockery OG
5th : Jon Cooper C
6th : Nader Adbdallah DT

I like this one better.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I've already posted the sure-fire 3-year Super Bowl dynasty plan starting next season.

-Re-sign Hall, keep Rogers, cut Springs

-Sign Dansby, cut Washington

-Sign Peppers, cut Taylor

-Sign Haynesworth, cut Griffin

-Sign Gross, let Kendall go, cut Daniels

-Cut Thrash and Cartwright, sign Sproles

-Cut Suisham, sign Bironas

-Trade back, draft Duke Robinson, draft a pass-rushing DE in the 2nd round, draft a center in the 3rd round, draft a DT in the 5th, draft a DT in the 6th.

-In 2010, unload Jansen, ARE, Carter, then draft their replacements along with a replacement for Fletcher.

I wanted to trade for Tom Brady too, but that just seemed unrealistic.

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, typo. Meant Best Player Available.

Just looked up the DE stats on yahoo. The Redskins were pathetic statistically. Justin Tuck is an absolute beast. And Philly has 2 guys with great years, Howard and Cole.

Curt Warner -- love him! -- is in for a long afternoon flat on his back.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Why would we take Britton in the 1st - isnt he a 2nd round projection? There has to be OTs better than him...

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I think by virtue of improving the offensive line, you improve the offense. By improving the offense you in turn could potentially score more points.

See where I'm going with this, its kind of a trickle down theory. By improving the offense, by virtue you potentially improve the defense.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

right, I was being Madden with a signing of a wide receiver and a running back but signing Gross, Peppers, Haynesworth, Dansby, and Sproles is realistic.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Hey Truth, I think they have all those guys.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Sign Dansby, cut Washington

-Sign Peppers, cut Taylor

-Sign Haynesworth, cut Griffin

-Sign Gross, let Kendall go, cut Daniels

No way they're able to sign all of these guys for several reasons.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I am personally happy with our scheme 4-3 is so critical for a good stop the run first team, which is what we are. We also do a 46 style bringing up the Safety all the time.

I am not a big Tampa 2 fan, we use that way too much I think. I feel like I am watching the skins get into a goal line front when the other teams on their own 20.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Adding Boldin made sense: LAST YEAR!!!!.

Adding Bart Scott is what makes this year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Name: *Eben Britton
College: Arizona Number: 77
Height: 6-6 Weight: 310
Position: OT Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: rJr/2009
40 Time: 5.09 40 Low: 4.98 40 High: 5.27

Name: Cedric Dockery (+) Coming off knee injury
College: Texas Number: 55
Height: 6-4 Weight: 320
Position: OG Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2009
40 Time: 5.28 40 Low: 5.20 40 High: 5.38

Name: Jon Cooper
College: Oklahoma Number: 50
Height: 6-2 Weight: 292
Position: C Pos2: OG
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2009
40 Time: 5.14 40 Low: 5.04 40 High: 5.28

Name: Nader Abdallah
College: Ohio State Number: 93
Height: 6-4 Weight: 300
Position: DT Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2009
40 Time: 5.12 40 Low: 4.95 40 High: 5.24

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

There are a lot of Carlos Rogers Haters out there. I don't see the big deal with Carlos and why people think the Redskins will be better off without him, supplanting him with a second round pick? It sounds dumb to break up something as good as our secondary, considering Springs may not be here next year(I say if he goes, then he goes to Dallas), Smoot's decline and the up&coming promise of JT 'Just Tryin-out."

Of course we could always peruse Pac Man. Maybe then, People would stop hatin' on 'Los.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 12, 2009 3:39 PM

True or False:
The top 5 OT prospects, (A.Smith, Oher, Monroe, Jason Smith & Britton are off of the board come the Redskins selection? I mean, if we draft #13 then we select one of the aforementioned guys? Right?


Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"Trade back, draft Duke Robinson, draft a pass-rushing DE in the 2nd round, draft a center in the 3rd round, draft a DT in the 5th, draft a DT in the 6th.

-In 2010, unload Jansen, ARE, Carter, then draft their replacements along with a replacement for Fletcher.

I wanted to trade for Tom Brady too, but that just seemed unrealistic.

Posted by: psps23"


don't
have
2nd
round
pick

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I am personally happy with our scheme 4-3 is so critical for a good stop the run first team, which is what we are. We also do a 46 style bringing up the Safety all the time.

I am not a big Tampa 2 fan, we use that way too much I think. I feel like I am watching the skins get into a goal line front when the other teams on their own 20.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM |

Alex, who are the two best defenses in the NFL. Pitt and Balt. they both run 3-4 if done correct a 3-4 can be dominating against the run.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

This guy is a free agent this year. He started (right guard) in every game for the Falcons this year. Matt Ryan seemed like he got a chance to remain upright.

http://www.nfl.com/players/harveydahl/profile?id=DAH255392

This guy said he had an "angry streak" before the season began (June 2008):

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2008/6/15/552246/of-harvey-dahl-and-head-sc

6'5" north of 300 pounds ... entering his third season ... 27 years old

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

True or False:
The top 5 OT prospects, (A.Smith, Oher, Monroe, Jason Smith & Britton are off of the board come the Redskins selection? I mean, if we draft #13 then we select one of the aforementioned guys? Right?


Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM


I'd say 4 of the 5 are off the board. You have to think 1 QB, 2 DE, 1-2WR, 1 LB, 1 S are most likely to be drafted before the skins pick.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

Yes, that's what I've seen. Britton. I think
the mock drafters see this team as one that
needs a whole new offensive line.

However, I would change the 6th round pick to
a kicker.

It all depends on what craziness occurs during the
FA period. By all accounts it should be a very quiet
FA period again. Snidely got burned by the Jason
Taylor deal. Not that he's a bad player. Not that he
shouldn't be resigned. But he cost way too many
draft picks.

The do need an impact player on defense. If I had to choose
it would be a linebacker like Washington (Suggs?). I think the
can get by another year with Carter, Evans, and Taylor at DE.
Then go to the draft for the DE's.

At this point they need an OL to help Jason Campbell and Zorn make progress. It just has to be the entire focus of the draft.

And yes I agree someone like Taylor Mays would be nice to have and would fit the defensive scheme. It all depends on who they resign or trade away at this point. If they lose Carlos then a corner back will likely be needed as opposed to a safety. Smoot just isn't up to it. It would be nice to have the luxury to refine the defense and make it better than the Ravens for a number of years. But I don't think this team has that luxury.

"couple mock drafts I've seen :

1st : Ebon Britton OT
3rd : Cedrick Dockery OG
5th : Jon Cooper C
6th : Nader Adbdallah DT"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Wow, you guys are easy.

I've added another piece to my sure-fire plan. This takes us from 3-year dynasty to a 4-year dynasty.

- Re-sign Hall, trade Rogers for a 2nd rounder, cut Springs, sign Asomugha. Use the two 2nd rounders (1st one came from trading back from the #13 spot) to draft 2 pass-rushing DEs.

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

dc, good find, thats the kind of free agents the team needs to focus on.

Young, and up and coming.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

If Atlanta doesn't lock this guy up (as the Skins often are slow to do with their up and coming young guys), this poster boy for the "nasty boys" sounds like the necessary medicine. Guards have become way expensive since the Dockery/Steinbach FA year ...

http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20090105/NEWS/901059989/-1/rss04

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

psp,

We got some Gullible people up here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Flounder thats a big If. I mean yes, Bal and Pitt are no 2 and 3 against the run respectively, but then they have the luxury of Cleveland and Cinci on their schedule both in the bottom 10 of the NFL. But this is picking apart a minor point in an overall statement that I am just saying that I have no problem with our scheme and that it would take us more time to make a 3-4 work in this roster than it would take us to get a few new guys to plug into our 4-3

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

alex,

I'm not saying that I would do it I'm just saying a 3-4 defense can be dominating against the run.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, did you know the word "Gullible" is not in the dictionary?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Sure you get the right players in the right system and a 1-5-6 can stop the run.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Name: Cedric Dockery (+) Coming off knee injury
College: Texas Number: 55
Height: 6-4 Weight: 320
Position: OG Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2009
40 Time: 5.28 40 Low: 5.20 40 High: 5.38

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:00 AM

Noooooooooo ... no more taking a flyer on pre-injured draft picks (Kareem Moore, Malcolm Kelly), ESPECIALLY on an offensive lineman ... offensive linemen NEED to have good legs from the hips to the toes (see Jansen's decline).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else notice the NFL's full shift this year away from flashy passing game success?

Can some of this be credited to Gibbsian ideals? Last year 2.0 was raked for his approach to the NFL. He was lambasted for being 'behind the times'.

But a blood 'n guts team won the stuporbowl last year. and this year has seen teams with beefy lines control the game through possession and power drives.

Could he have been a little ahead of the curve there?

Now we're stuck with a team that has a schizo identity and is aging at that.

The fact that Philly is representing us in the championship is really sticking in my craw.

I hope the staff can decide on a team here & go with it. It's about deciding who you are and imposing your will!

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Flounder thats a big If. I mean yes, Bal and Pitt are no 2 and 3 against the run respectively, but then they have the luxury of Cleveland and Cinci on their schedule both in the bottom 10 of the NFL. But this is picking apart a minor point in an overall statement that I am just saying that I have no problem with our scheme and that it would take us more time to make a 3-4 work in this roster than it would take us to get a few new guys to plug into our 4-3

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

the 3-4 will never happen cause its too big a switch, however, "our" 4-3 isn't working. Our defense is good but how many games were given away in the 4th quarter this year just like years past or how many games were we down 1 score and the d couldn't get off the field to give the O a chance? off the top of my head, St. Louis, Baltimore, San Fran, second Cowboys game, Bengals....teams just ran the clock out on us....and after years of ignoring the line one signing or draft pick isn't going to fix that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

psp, you're on fy-ah today...lol...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Redskins team needs :

QB
RB
WR
OL
DL
LB
CB
S
P
K
PR
KR
Coaching staff
General Manager
Owner

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

The Truth hath spoken. With emphasis on GM and Owner.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 13, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"Could he have been a little ahead of the curve there?"

I said from the start that he never should have brought in Saunders. Gibbs had a semi-effective offense with Mark Brunell at QB and literally zero help for Santana Moss in 2005 (Cooley was just breaking out, and even Randle El was more effective than what we had at that time). The addition of Campbell alone would have improved that offense to be a consistent contender with the defense we have. That was Gibbs' biggest mistake in my book.

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Rinehart has to crack the starting lineup next year. I don't think you use a pick on a guard unless you're convinced Rinehart can't play.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

That's why the heck we should have played him for the last 2-3 games of the year......to at least have a slightly more inside scoop on if this kid has anything to build off of going into 09 training camp......now because we know nothing about him (regarding real game action) we are going into the draft that much blinder.
Yet someone on here weeks ago was saying "No, no don't play Rinehardt,, you may destroy his confidence and ruin his career if he has a bad outing and gets beat several times...."

WTF kind of logic is that......these are professional grown men......not teenagers going through puberty.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 13, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I think it should be a pretty simple philosophy.....solidify both lines on the offense AND defense through this draft....I dont really care who it is as long as its sosme sort of offensive or defensive linemen for gods sake!

Posted by: hillb03 | January 13, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

One signing is not going to change it sure, but scheme does not create a play-maker.

Our D was holding teams to very little no one got above 28 points a game (1 TD a quarter). We held the other team to 20 or less in 10 games. 21 points a gamewe would be 10-6.

1 more TD a game and your looking at 11-12 wins maybe wining the NFC east.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure the mistake was Gibbs', though we'll never know fo sho.

Anywho, more time for the QB should help us out tremendously, provided they actually get some talent there on the line...

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Did you know that in 2005, we had the 11th ranked offense and 13th ranked scoring offense? And this with one WR catching more than 22 passes, and Mark "noodle arm" Brunell at QB.

Why would Gibbs switch away from that?

Posted by: psps23 | January 13, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Maybe he was being cheeky, but I disagree with TheTruth's listing of KR as a need. Even if Cartwright is released, Skins have several guys on the roster who returned kicks in college (D. Thomas, K. Moore, maybe Tyron?) ... this is part of the reason John "Angry Toe" Eubanks became one of the expendable corners. What the Skins lack is anyone with punt return experience.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure the mistake was Gibbs', though we'll never know fo sho.

Anywho, more time for the QB should help us out tremendously, provided they actually get some talent there on the line...

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 11:31 AM |

Give me a break, Gibbs made that call he said it himself. Snyder would have done what ever Gibbs wanted including fireing Cerrato.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Also, I thought Cartwright was in the top ten KRs in return yard average ... which seems good enough to retain ... though I recognize he also occupies a roster spot at RB, where he does not add much (anything?) to positive offensive outcomes on plays.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

the 3-4 will never happen cause its too big a switch, however, "our" 4-3 isn't working. Our defense is good but how many games were given away in the 4th quarter this year just like years past or how many games were we down 1 score and the d couldn't get off the field to give the O a chance? off the top of my head, St. Louis, Baltimore, San Fran, second Cowboys game, Bengals....teams just ran the clock out on us....and after years of ignoring the line one signing or draft pick isn't going to fix that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 11:21 AM +++
A Solid Strong Side LB will take care of that. When the rest of the defense is wearing down, your SAM LB is there to sure up the run-D. But yes, our defense has other holes to fill, (DT, DE, LB)..

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

sween we have a great PR named Moss, we are just not gonna play him back there more than 1 x a game. To me if we lose Rock, which I don't want to see, we need a smash mouth RB with PR skills to soften up those guys for that Moss PR changeup.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Sign two of:
Farrior
Barton
Dansby
Crowder

Use the money you saved by not having to go after Suggs, Haynesworth, or Peppers and go get Boldin and Sproles or Ward.

Draft the best Tackle on the board at 13. Draft a guard in the 3rd. Grab a center in the 5th, and in the 6th take the biggest fattest nose tackle you can find and groom him to be the eventual replacement to Jackson/Watson.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 10:16 AM


This is a brilliant idea and one I have often thought up in similar ways, I'd like Ward over Sproles just because he seems more suited for the NFC East than little man Sproles, plus I just don't see the Chargers letting this guy go, but I am not sure about the Boldin thing. Everything else I love, especially the draft part.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 13, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

riiiigggghhhht. everyone knows how much the danny listens to people.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

2009 Offense - Starters

LT - Samuels
LG - Reinart
C - Rabach
RG - Thomas
RT - *New (draft hopefully)
TE1 - Cooley
TE2 - Davis
WR1 - Moss
WR2 Devin Thomas (maybe a push by Kelly)
RB - Portis
FB - Sellers
QB - Campbell

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 13, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Yes, The Truth was being cheeky.

The Truth likes Rock!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

riiiigggghhhht. everyone knows how much the danny listens to people.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 11:43 AM |

Your right Dik, Gibbs is god he did nothing wrong while he was here, all the good draft picks and FA's were his, and all the bad ones were Vinny.

Snyder told him to bring in a OC, Snyder told him to play Brunell way to long.

Snyder also told him to trade for Brunell and give a draft pick and a high salary, to a guy about to get cut and who would of got league minimum anywhere else.

Even you can see how dumb this is right, I love Gibbs for what he did the first time around, but he chose to come back and he made some terrible mistakes in the second go around.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Boldin is under contract. Who are we gonna trade for him?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

good news in a sports world where good news is rare :

"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Florida State safety Myron Rolle will study at Oxford instead of entering this year's NFL draft.

Rolle won a Rhodes scholarship in November and plans to seek a one-year master's degree in medical anthropology, The New York Times reported Monday in an entry on its college football blog.

"I'm very excited to go," Rolle wrote in a text message to the newspaper.

Rolle, projected to be an early round pick, said he plans to enter the 2010 NFL draft.

Rolle, from Galloway, N.J., got his undergraduate degree in pre-med after two and a half years, and has been taking graduate courses at Florida State this year.

After his NFL career, Rolle has said he plans to attend medical school and then open a clinic for the needy in the Bahamas."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Well cooley gave vinny credit for drafting him. Though prevously had said that it was Gibbs who made the trades and stuff to get him

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Good analysis. The injuries to the guards really hurt the Skins this year. Failures include:

* A lack of effective backup offensive linemen; particularly when the line includes a number of aging players

* Playing injured players and leaving healthy players on the inactive list.

* Not having time to coach the rookies, because the starters were still learning the offense

* Poor conditioning and training caused numerous preventable injuries

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Yeah...changing the defense to a 3-4....riiiight. Some of you people are funny...why would you change a top 5 defense? It's pretty simple.....get some youth on the lines. Take the best OT with our first pick and the rest with G, DT, LB and DE. Hail!!!

Posted by: Smiley2 | January 13, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Here's what I'm saying:

1)Gibbs was criticized for thinking you could win with a power game. You can.

B)Danny is a tool. He is.

All that other bs you spouted was some sour grapes. Don't choke on it - cut it up into a fruit salad. Then go for a hike & get a massage on the 4th floor. Number 1, baby, #1.

(sorry, too much manning...)

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

This is an area the Skins have to rebuild; particularly if Thomas doesn't come back from his injuries.

They should sign a free agent RT and LG or RG if Rhino is ready this year and Thomas goes on IR. They should draft a RT, OG, and C/G.

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Actually some good analysis from Jason here. Agree with almost everything (except I still like Heyer much more than Jason does). I think if the Skins draft a Tackle first round to start, then we could see Heyer at Guard).

Posted by: HokiePaul | January 13, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh & Siris - I can't agree more about Bubba Tyer (sp??) and his staff. We have been languishing w/ them for too long.

How come the dang Dolphins stayed so healthy?!

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...changing the defense to a 3-4....riiiight. Some of you people are funny...why would you change a top 5 defense? It's pretty simple.....get some youth on the lines. Take the best OT with our first pick and the rest with G, DT, LB and DE. Hail!!!

Posted by: Smiley2 | January 13, 2009 11:57 AM |

I'm not saying we should change but don't think you can't or shouldn't change just because you are good.

Why did Tiger Woods change his golf swing completely when he was number 1 in the world, so he could be more dominant.

If you're not number 1 then ther is always room for improvement, and sometime even when your the best you can change and get better.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

One signing is not going to change it sure, but scheme does not create a play-maker.

Our D was holding teams to very little no one got above 28 points a game (1 TD a quarter). We held the other team to 20 or less in 10 games. 21 points a gamewe would be 10-6.

1 more TD a game and your looking at 11-12 wins maybe wining the NFC east.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Scheme absolutely makes a playmaker, are you kidding me? James Harrison was an undrafted free agent from Kent State who didn't start a game until this year, you think the scheme has nothing to do with his success? Sure, Peppers, Strahan, Osi, and those types would be good in any scheme, but they are the rare and incredibly expensive exception that has been alluding this franchise for years (Bruce, Big Daddy, Stubblefield, Carter, Taylor, etc....) at some point instead of trying to find the missing piece since 1991 that can just line up and consistently get pressure maybe we can change up the system a little? GG did this a bit when he first got here but the Clark for Arch deluxe switch killed it cause we couldn't trust our deep coverage enough to blitz heavily like GG wanted to.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I still remember that play against Baltimore and still cannot understand why you would put an inexperienced player against an All-Pro, in a critical situation, without TE or RB help. Just plain stupid...

Posted by: BT23 | January 13, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I still remember that play against Baltimore and still cannot understand why you would put an inexperienced player against an All-Pro, in a critical situation, without TE or RB help. Just plain stupid...

Posted by: BT23 | January 13, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Even Madden was like what are they doing? That is an example of why the head coach shouldn't be the playcaller, he's too busy call the next play and worrying about getting it in to JC to notice his backup center is about to go one on one with Suggs. The gotta figure out if Zorn isn't gonna see that stuff Smith or Buges or sumbody has to be able to tell Zorn to wait a sec...

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

BT23, yeah. I'm not too impressed w/ Zorny's ability to take a successful season back to mediocrity through bad management.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

siris

The comment about back up linemen is true.

For the life of me, I can't think of why the Skins carried three q-backs when they knew that only one was going to play.

I guess they figured somebody would snag Colt Brennan from the practice squad if they had placed him there to get a roster spot for a back up lineman.

So if Brennan was worth saving at the expense of another player, it makes you wonder if and when the FO is going to give him a shot. Or: if Todd Collins days are numbered to some point.

I really hope Jason Campbell improves and shows he was was worth having two backups when he needed an extra guy or two to block for him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I'm saying:

1)Gibbs was criticized for thinking you could win with a power game. You can.

B)Danny is a tool. He is.

All that other bs you spouted was some sour grapes. Don't choke on it - cut it up into a fruit salad. Then go for a hike & get a massage on the 4th floor. Number 1, baby, #1.

(sorry, too much manning...)

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:01 PM |

Good come back sour grapes, you are just having problems admitting your wrong it's OK lots of people up here have that problem.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

uhh...don't you need athletic d-lineman and a good corps of linebackers to run the 3-4 defense? seriously why would we even consider it. and you can't chase boldin now, they took a chance in the draft with WRs and have to stick to their decisions. we're not revisiting that position, although many people they should. the skins have too many needs to address in one draft and one free agency, it'll take years (and vinny being fired) to replace our aging vets.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 13, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Seeing as how you're not even talking about what I brought up, I don't see it as a comeback, more of an analysis. But whatever.

Are you denying that Danny is a weasel? And are you denying that Gibbs wanted a power offense?

If yes: Please elaborate.

If no: why are you still addressing me?

As far as Saunders goes, if Gibbs had really wanted him here, he would have been here initially.

I do fully concede that Gibbs "uber coach" concept didn't pan out. But there's plenty of reasons for that, however. And Parcells in Miami has proved that it can work - it just needs to be executed properly.

With all the hands-on Snyder camp activity, that wasn't possible here.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Check that - uber coach got us into the playoffs... twice. stick-it

I'm gonna go eat lunch.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Survey says!

Pick one of the following for the Redskins 12th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

__ James Laurinaitis, LB Ohio St.

__ BJ Raji, DT Boston College

__ Tyson Jackson, DE LSU

__ Duke Robinson, OG Oklahoma

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Oher won't be available. If he is, it's because he was arrested for crack and hookers the night before the draft. Then I say we definitely take him.

Vinny for President, 2012. The country may suffer but the Redskins will get back to the Super Bowl. Win some, lose some..

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

uhh...don't you need athletic d-lineman and a good corps of linebackers to run the 3-4 defense? seriously why would we even consider it.

uhhh....yeah we do have some decently athletic dlineman just not great at getting pressure, and if you noticed I said put Carter, Jackson, Wilson on that blitzing lb and signing a couple LB for a lot cheaper than Albert, Peppers, or suggs, but I get it, too big a shift won't happen....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

i guess it could happen if there is a coaching/leadership change but i don't see that happening. they've given so few snaps wilson, jackson, buzebee that its hard to say what those guys can do. i think the skins will be preoccupied with the offensive line come draft time anyways.

Posted by: dadanimal | January 13, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Are you 3-4 advocates saying the Skins have the personnel to run that defense?

Every dominant 3-4 I remember had a crazy-good OLB who terrorized left tackles. Do the Redskins have a guy like that?

Bill Walsh used to say you also need a gigantic nose tackle who is an immovable object and commands double/triple-teams against the run. Do the Skins have a guy like that?

4-3 is a better defense against passing. 3-4 is better against the run.

The Redskins have an excellent run defense. They don't need to go to a 3-4 to scheme the run. They don't have the nose tackle or OLB to be dominant against the pass.

Sorry, don't see it. Whatever's wrong with the defense, in my opinion going to the 3-4 won't help.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Check that - uber coach got us into the playoffs... twice. stick-it

I'm gonna go eat lunch.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 12:48 PM |

What ever jack a$$, you were arguing that Snyder hired Saunders not Gibbs, and I told you that was BS, I never said anything about a power offense.

Parcells is not the coach in Miami dumb a$$, what Gibbs did and what Parcells is doing are to totally different things.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Don't most teams carry 3 QB's?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Mista Moe, surely you remember the Body-Bag game against Philly?


Carrying 2 QB is asking for lots and lots of trouble.

What's really odd is that NYG carried 2 K!

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

dcp,
The Hon's have 2 k as well Stovers time almost over.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Are you 3-4 advocates saying the Skins have the personnel to run that defense?

Every dominant 3-4 I remember had a crazy-good OLB who terrorized left tackles. Do the Redskins have a guy like that?


UGGGGHGGH would you guys stop asking if the Skins have the personnel right now....read the posts, signing of a couple LBs and a nose tackle a lot cheaper easier/less risky than Peppers, Haynesworth, or Suggs. But it aint happening cause that would require some creativity and out of the box thinking instead of just being satisfied with a defense that gives away games in the 4th quarter, doesn't generate turnovers, or get any pressure whatsoever but looks good statistically so obviously we are just one more Carter, or Taylor, or _________ name the guy away from being dominant......

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Well the NYG do have 2 QB, but I think that's because "Ace"-my-coconut-is-too-small-to-be-a-good-QB-Wright is on IR.

The Hons have 3 QB in addition to 2 K, but thanks I didn't know that Stover was that short-ranged...

BTW, all you guys who want to fire/release/cut the 'trash' or 'backup' players, are you the same guys who are mad at Synder for being impatient?

Maybe we should have held on to Akers, hmm?

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

If you are that naive and believe that ... I have a bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn. Also a stadium in Baltimore currently occupied by the Ravens I'd like to get my investment back on.

"Give me a break, Gibbs made that call he said it himself. Snyder would have done what ever Gibbs wanted including fireing Cerrato."

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

ZJ, if I read you right you think that it's easier to improve the defense by changing the scheme. This is because it's easier to get the OLB and nose tackle through FA rather than get 2 other players that fit the 4-3.

OK, got it. I will say that Walsh said the hardest guy to find was the nose tackle. I'll also say that of the top DL in sacks, most seem to play for 3-4 defenses. So either they are easier to find, or that 4-3 is a good scheme.

Here's my opinion on why the Redskins don't have more sacks.

1) They do not have a DE or an OLB who can beat a tackle 1-1.

2) They are having a lot of trouble scheming blitzes. They blitzed more than almost anybody in the league, and didn't have the sacks to show for it.

For some reason -- scheme/players/I wish I knew what/karma -- the blitzes get picked up. Maybe they should hire a coach to deconstruct schemes and get a guy free, because the guy they have doing that ain't getting the job done.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Parcells is not the coach in Miami dumb a$$, what Gibbs did and what Parcells is doing are to totally different things.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, that's not really true. Gibbs was also team President second go-round and had final say on personnel decisions. So yes he was coach, but also an exec like Parcells. He got us Cooley, JC, CP, 21, Fletch, etc. Too bad Vinny couldn't build on the core group with a single impact player last year (although I'm not giving up on Kelly/Thomas)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

4-3 Defense is the Best Offense.

To counter the 4th quarter, sloppy run-D, sign Lance Briggs. End of Story, no need to switch to a 3-4.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Its probably going to be Eben Britton. Not sure what will happen after that if they are able to trade for more picks. Certainly a real tackle/guard who could start next year and not be overwhelmed by the pros would be nice.

"Pick one of the following for the Redskins 12th pick in the first round:

__ Michael Oher, OT Mississippi

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, dyslexic fingers

I meant to say that most DL at the top of the heap for sacks seem to play for *4-3* defenses...

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

so far lets see, we're signing Lance Briggs, and, AND, signing Anquan Boldin......got one word for you guys.......

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

4-3 is a better defense against passing. 3-4 is better against the run.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:05 PM

How is this so, when in a 3-4 you can drop more LBs into coverage.

Check where BAL, PIT, NE, and MIA ranked against the run this year.

Why is there always one guy (BEANTOWN) constantly pissing on the idea, its just an idea. You don't have to get your panties in a bunch over someone suggesting something. HELLO, WE DON'T HAVE THE EAR OF THE FRONT OFFICE. WHATEVER YOU OR I SUGGEST WILL NEVER HAPPEN, OKAY? But I guess you're the GM of RI so that means you can sh*t on other ideas, suggestions, or thoughts. Good for you, really empowering, isn't it? I mean, we get to read your endless post about draft this guy and draft that guy...

I bet you could totally F up a wet dream.

Good lawd... But do you man, do you.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

If you are that naive and believe that ... I have a bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn. Also a stadium in Baltimore currently occupied by the Ravens I'd like to get my investment back on.

"Give me a break, Gibbs made that call he said it himself. Snyder would have done what ever Gibbs wanted including fireing Cerrato."

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:25 PM |

This coming from the guy who thinks we should draft a kicker.

He let Marty fire cerrato, so I am pretty sure he would have sucked Gibbs d_c_ if he wanted him to.

I know you like to think Gibbs did nothing wrong his second time, but again that is BS.

Do you really think a man of Gibbs stature would of hired an OC if he didn't think it was necessary, you are giving the man to little credit.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Saw the 'trade for Boldin' talk earlier on this board. Now I was the biggest advocate of that last offseason. But things are very different now. We have many more holes to fill, Boldin is more expensive (Pro Bowlers tend to be pricey) and we have less to offer AZ.

If Boldin had come to DC for 2008, the Skins probably make the playoffs. If Boldin comes and Taylor plays well, the Skins are a legit SB threat.

But 2009 requires the Skins to recognize they are not 1 or 2 players away. They are several players away and the rebuild needs to be done with cheaper players.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

+++so far lets see, we're signing Lance Briggs, and, AND, signing Anquan Boldin......got one word for you guys.......

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 1:29 PM+++
My sentiments exactly.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Daggar --
not sure what you were referencing, but will analyze whatever call you were thinking about ...


I thought going for it was the right call. What I need is zcesemserterererest with the "15 yards is a point" analysis to prove I'm right.

Posted by: daggar | January 11, 2009 7:18 PM

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

correction - Horton was an impact player. But I highly doubt that was Vinny's doing since apparently Dewayne Walker suggested him to the Skins.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I think you may see more of that "hybrid" variation that shut down the Eagles with Taylor, Evans and Carter next year. Evans can move to tackle and be effective. Its really more a problem with the linebackers ... Washington hurt, Mac bad knees. Not with the DL so much.

I think they will keep Springs and Taylor so stop trying to cut them. You cripple the defense when you do silly things like that. As it is they will have to consider releasing Griffin because that would be a win on the salary cap side of things. Finding a replacement will not be easy. And they may end up signing someone for that slot plus the linebacker. But they have to free up cap space. They can't assume unlimited cap. And even if they do ... they will run into trouble once its reimposed if they ignore it.

"the 4th quarter, doesn't generate turnovers, or get any pressure whatsoever but looks good statistically so obviously we are just one more Carter, or Taylor, or _________ name the guy away from being dominant......

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

so far lets see, we're signing Lance Briggs, and, AND, signing Anquan Boldin......got one word for you guys.......

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Sorry about that, forgot to add, "and we're changing to a 3-4 defense" to my above post.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

DOMINANCE!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

dcp,
I would add a possible 3, that none of our interior rushers are getting a double team or triple team, if your front 4 takes 4 to block than they can send 5 guys on pass patterns.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I bet you could totally F up a wet dream.
RedDMV


LMAO! That's just wrong man.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 13, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

So ... let's see Dallas signed Roy E. Williams thinking the same thing ... and what happened when they ran into Philadelphia at Lincoln field?

Briggs is not a Washington. Not even close. Maybe someone like Suggs is but I don't know if he would fit in the 4-3.

More than likely they finish under .500 if they do that.

"+++so far lets see, we're signing Lance Briggs, and, AND, signing Anquan Boldin......got one word for you guys.......

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 1:29 PM+++ My sentiments exactly.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like a frenzied fan Snidely Owl kind of a move. So, why does this blog complain about him when you think so much like him? :)

"Sorry about that, forgot to add, 'and we're changing to a 3-4 defense' to my above post.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

DOMINANCE!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Chris Smelley has left the building.

Smelley was a starting q-back for the South Carolina Gamecocks. Now he's off to play baseball.

Is that a comment on Steve Spurrier...?

I think so.

Without a doubt, the most boneheaded decision made by the FO was bringing in a guy who wanted money without doing the work.

Marvin Lewis coached like a pro during the days of Spurrier, and went to the Bengals happier than a fat kid with a bag of candy.

Spurrier wanted a check and time to play golf.

He was supposed to bring points, but brought ex-Gators in to prove his system--such as it was-could work in the NFL.

We all know what happened with that.

The real damage comes when you scan through the draft picks (ESPN: Draft history 2002-2003)made by all NFL teams during his tenure and see that many of the players fans want now were all drafted by serious people who build depth and athleticism into their rosters.

The FO then wouldn't think to bring in guys who'd, to quote Steve, "Make my system work."

And now Skins fans fear wide open offense.

You think Campbell got hit a lot this year? Go back and look at what happened to Pat Ramsey.

Steve Spurrier succeeded in the SEC because he threw the ball before others college teams utilized zone blitz schemes, zero coverages, and turned athletic high tight ends into tweener linebackers who could cover.

His failure at the East Coast USC is proof of that, and what smells in hidsight is not his losing another quarterback, but our having to have put up with him as a coach.

That is what stinks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty simple. You pretty much cannot buy a championship. You have to draft well, especially in rounds 2-7. Not only do you get the players before they even hit their physical prime, they are generally much cheaper. You sign a 28 yr old F/A who has been balling at a Pro Bowl level for 6 years - you're going to overpay for a guy that might have 2 more years of elite performance left. As someone in his early 30's, it pains me to say but face it, by 30 you are usually over the hill in the NFL at most positions. Whoever is saying we should sign TJ Houshmanzadah needs to put down the pipe and/or hand it to me because I want what you're smoking. Dude will be 31 by season's start. What do you expect to get from him? 1 good year? Maybe 2? OK great. Is that worth $20 million guranteed?

Just say no to all big F/A splashes. Yes, sign some quality, affordable depth on the O-line. But no Gross, no Peppers, no HAYNESWORTH. I've admittedly waivered on this but we shouldn't go there.

If we don't start to treat draft picks like gold (read: FIRE/marginalize Vincenzo), it's gonna be 15 more long, lean years.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Well now, maybe I'm wrong on this. But I think you need at least 2 DL in a 3-4 that require double-teams on running plays.

You need a very quick OLB (or a safety) that can beat an OL mano-y-mano on passing downs, yet can handle the occasional OL on running plays and make the tackle.

Most teams run 4-3 for a reason, and I think that reason is that it's a lot more difficult to find the players to run an effective 3-4.

Yeah, I know some guys say it's more cap friendly and/or cheaper. Maybe it's because if you can't get the rare ones, then you get guys nobody else pays.


Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Yes, and Snidely brought Cerrato back and put him in the booth next to him for every game. What kind of message do you think that sent to Marty? Eh? Noting that he was fired immediately following that season.

NO, Gibbs could not fire Cerrato. And unlike Marty Gibbs was smart enough not to. The guy has a framed photo of Snyder's parents on his desk at Redskins Park.

Sorry you are naive if you believe that stuff ... and they say I live in an alternate Universe. Clearly you know nothing about office politics.

No, Gibbs was far from perfect. But I also believe his hands were tied far more than they were under JKC and even when Beathard ruled things. Even though he held the title of president. And I think Jason believes that as well.

"He let Marty fire cerrato, so I am pretty sure he would have sucked Gibbs d_c_ if he wanted him to.

I know you like to think Gibbs did nothing wrong his second time, but again that is BS.

Do you really think a man of Gibbs stature would of hired an OC if he didn't think it was necessary, you are giving the man to little credit.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

+++
correction - Horton was an impact player. But I highly doubt that was Vinny's doing since apparently Dewayne Walker suggested him to the Skins.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG +++

Vinny gets all the credit for Horton because he pulled the trigger on it. Having connections is a good thing. Of course, Vinny gets credit for the other 9 picks as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, that's not really true. Gibbs was also team President second go-round and had final say on personnel decisions. So yes he was coach, but also an exec like Parcells. He got us Cooley, JC, CP, 21, Fletch, etc. Too bad Vinny couldn't build on the core group with a single impact player last year (although I'm not giving up on Kelly/Thomas)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 1:27 PM |

If Parcells was coach also, the two would be the same but he's not so the situation is totally different.

I never said Gibbs did not make good moves but he made bad ones to, and hiring an OC and then not giving him full control of the offense was 1 of them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

He hired the man who had renown for defeating and overwhelming 3-4 defenses. He also had a few guys like that in Gibbs 1.0 if you recall. Like Dan Henning. Nothing new there.

"Do you really think a man of Gibbs stature would of hired an OC if he didn't think it was necessary, you are giving the man to little credit."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Yup that's the hard truth of it. You can't just go out on a spending spree like JKC did and attract the very best to the team. Doing well in the draft is now absolutely critical.

"It's pretty simple. You pretty much cannot buy a championship. You have to draft well, especially in rounds 2-7. Not only do you get the players before they even hit their physical prime, they are generally much cheaper. You sign a 28 yr old F/A who has been balling at a Pro Bowl level for 6 years - you're going to overpay for a guy that might have 2 more years of elite performance left."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Vinny gets all the credit for Horton because he pulled the trigger on it. Having connections is a good thing. Of course, Vinny gets credit for the other 9 picks as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:45 PM

Credit ... blame ... whatever ... we'll see whether he actually accepts any accountability for failures that may result.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I though That Brown said to get Horton that he was mostly in-charge of day 2.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

sween, I think Vinny deservedly gets credit for messing up in 2008.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

The more I read about this guy, the more I like him. Harvey Dahl. He is still an un-locked-up free agent ... and unrestricted free agency. Not a flashy name (maybe not even a name heard of outside of Atlanta). This is who I want. This means we don't have to draft another interior lineman (at least not early).

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2008/11/07/falcons_harvey_dahl_guard.html

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

well you know what, no one is taking responsibility for the debacle of 2008. So I will. I made the major mistake of not giving 100% as a fan in trying to get rid of vinny, I was side tracked with the desire to prevent getting Fassiel in the pre-season. I did not want to buy a car to drive to ashburn and sit with a sign by the park entrance. It was my fault everyone blame me.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

alex#####, Marocco Brown didn't join the staff till after the draft. But someone (Jasno?) did give him credit for the "downroster" guys, esp. practice squad guys who got snapped up.

Credit v. blame. Maybe just word choice. Credit has a positive connotation and blame the negative. Just like fame and notoriety are not the same. Notoriety means bad fame. The term is often misused as a synonym for fame.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

++well you know what, no one is taking responsibility for the debacle of 2008. So I will. I made the major mistake of not giving 100% as a fan in trying to get rid of vinny, I was side tracked with the desire to prevent getting Fassiel in the pre-season. I did not want to buy a car to drive to ashburn and sit with a sign by the park entrance. It was my fault everyone blame me.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 1:58 PM++

Blame me too.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I've been posting my fingers off, including to get Vinny replaced (for which I contributed to the partial success in that the team got talent evaluation help in Marocco Brown) ... my plan was sound ... maybe it was a problem with execution ...

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Vinny drafted Horton during a time when colleges were very good at turning out safeties.

Ed Reed is the godfather of what the NFL is awash in: excellent safety play.

There's Adrian Wilson, LaRon Landry, Polamalu, Ryan Clark, Madea Williams---again, tons of guys. There's no extra credit to had there for the Vin Man.

Vinny being credited for drafting Horton would be label him a genuis if he also drafted some quality lineman--something colleges have turned out a lot of over the past ten years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

You can also blame me for the downfall of this blog for that matter. I seem to create controversy everywehre I go.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe, my guess is that even Vinny was surprised when Horton turned out to play as well as he did. Obviously, 31 other teams took a pass on the guy ... the Skins compensatory pick in the 7th round ... 4th from the last guy picked. His "negatives" included being slow, unable to change direction quickly, leaping/jumping inability ...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/chris-horton?id=1982#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

dcsween

What's sad is that we Skins fans are down to arguing about who gets credit for drafting a 7th round safety in the 2008 draft.

What really hurts is when you scan through the "Who's Who?" list of NFL names the FO passed on 5 years ago: remember, what you drated in the past improves your team in the future.

If the 2008 was a bust and with only 4 picks this year, the future don't look so good to me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

J Ca Ca covers the NFL for a living right? Does he think every team except the Redskins are 3 deep at every position?

He covers the NFL for a living right?

Posted by: IHateJLC | January 13, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

To be precise no he covers the Skins you want NFL coverage go to Maske.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh and how do Danny and Vinny's nuts (from that tree he illegally cut down) taste?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Vinny gets all the credit for Horton because he pulled the trigger on it. Having connections is a good thing. Of course, Vinny gets credit for the other 9 picks as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 1:45 PM

Credit ... blame ... whatever ... we'll see whether he actually accepts any accountability for failures that may result.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Sween my man - why would he hold himself accountable when his boss/crony so clearly will not?? Is he supposed to fire himself? Such an age of magnanimity and personal responsibility has long since passed us by. This isn't 18th century Japan - if you're waiting for Vinny to commit harikari then yours will be a long and fruitless wait. Vinny is more likely to utter "let's draft some studly linemen" than "mea culpa...I'm outta here". Both would be so sweet; both seem sadly improbable.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Fans have got to see the issues with the Skins are the result of the FO trying to please three different coaches in 5-7 years.

That's why the offensive side of the roster is aged motley crew of leftover parts that don't fit.

Hopefully, Zorn will look at some game tape, re-design some of his approaches, and get the FO to use FA, the draft, and UFA pick ups to get a consistent group of guys who are all on the same page.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Credit ... blame ... whatever ... we'll see whether he actually accepts any accountability for failures that may result.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 1:52 PM

Actually, we won't see. Vinny is only accountable to Dan Snyder, and we'll never get to read his performance review.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Who would have more value in a trade: Carlos Rogers or Jason Campbell?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 10:47 AM |

JC

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 10:50 AM

This was my guess, too, so I agree with Flounder. And, if JC has more trade value, then if we have to trade someone let's trade him. He would be easier to replace than Carlos and I don't see him re-signing with the 'Skins considering the way his career has gone since he's been here. He's got to be a better fit for some other team, doesn't he? Say, one with an offensive line?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Using the Draft to build a team is the best way for the Redskins to re-establish themselves as a league powerhouse. FA should be used sparingly to add that final piece or two. it is critical to re-stock talent thru the draft, as it is important to wisely recruit yr in yr out in college to stay competitive. you miss bad on a couple recruiting classes and your program is in the toilet. Urban Meyer was worried about the recruiting a couple yrs ago at florida b/c of suspect recriting.
The best org's in the NFL are wise in the draft and use FA to supplement.
due to the fact that we hardly have any picks, attempting to trade some aging players for some picks may be a great idea...

Posted by: fullonfully | January 13, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

T_E,
The question is what can you get for them in a trade and do they want to be traded.


Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Yup that's the hard truth of it. You can't just go out on a spending spree like JKC did and attract the very best to the team. Doing well in the draft is now absolutely critical.

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Peri, for me the main question this year is - to trade down or not to trade down? Sure, it will largely depend on who's offering what. But if we can trade the 13th pick for a late 1st and 2nd rounder (e.g., 27 and 59 overall), I think we have to do that deal. I just would hate to see us reach for an OT (e.g., Britton) at 13 if the 4 studs are gone...how ironic would that be if Vinny finally drafted for need when are the good china was already outta the cupboard

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

The only way Snyder gets rid of Vinny is if Snyder falls and tears an achilles. That period of recovery, where he can't play racquetball, would be the window of opportunity.

Otherwise, Vinny understands his #1 responsibility is to lose in racquetball.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

T_E,
The question is what can you get for them in a trade and do they want to be traded.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 2:46 PM

Doesn't everyone on the team want to be traded? What future is there to look forward to as a Redskin?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Actually, we won't see. Vinny is only accountable to Dan Snyder, and we'll never get to read his performance review.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:39 PM

I feel like I read it all day long ... up here by the posters ... by the beat reporter ... by the other paper's beat reporters ... by the national media ... by Larry Michael ... by Doc Walker ... by Brian Mitchell ... by the junkies ...

[Also, I haven't read The Owner's performance review lately, but what has the share value of Six Flags been recently?]

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The only way Snyder gets rid of Vinny is if ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 2:49 PM

Snyder gets rid of Vinnie if he doesnt perform. Snyder is not going to let Vinnie Cerrato stand between him and the success he wants as a Redskins owner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Per,

I will do one more post on this and then move on.

You blind hatred for Snyder makes you sound like a complete idiot when you post because you have no objectivity.

I know you think you know Snyder because you live in Rockville, and probably drove by his house once or twice. But the truth is you know nothing that happens behind closed doors at Redskins park and niether do I.

I go by what I read and what has been reported by people who cover the team. I also go by what Gibbs has reported himself.

NO where has it ever been reported or written that Snyder hamstrung Gibbs in anyway, actually it has been reported several times and Gibbs said it himself that Snyder got him anything he wanted. Gibbs said if I wanted a coach he would go get him no matter what the price. He also said that any player he wanted Snyder would get. He also pretty much gave Gibbs a third race team for coming back to coach which I'm sure was part of the initial deal.

So you continue living in fantasy land and I will go with what I hear reported by people that actual have access to the team.

I challenge you to find 1 article where it was reported that Snyder hamstrung Gibbs in anyway.


Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

fullonfully, I don't think use of free agency necessarily undermines the draft ... I think trading away picks for guys undermines the draft. I think overpaying free agent hires (by a guy focused on football primarily as "entertainment" rather than football as a sport) undermines roster flexibility. But under the circumstances, part of a transition plan to a future drafts are going to be the new bread and butter, free agency patches (to account for roster spots ignored in previous draft ... roster spots with starters north of 30 years old) seem like they are necessary and prudent.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, it really bears investiagtion how this guy is not only still around but keeps getting promoted. Is Danny secretly in love with him? Blackmail? Brainwashing? This just does not make sense. Don't give me the - "they're old friends" argument. Snyder is nothing if not a businessman. He has to know that Cerrato is not a productive entity and is harmful to his overall profitability and stated goal/dream of winning another SB. Cindy, JLC - this is the scoop you need. WashPost did a story a few years ago on this but it barely scratched the surface.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Snyder gets rid of Vinnie if he doesnt perform. Snyder is not going to let Vinnie Cerrato stand between him and the success he wants as a Redskins owner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

there are too many YEARS of evidence to the contrary

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Snyder gets rid of Vinnie if he doesnt perform. Snyder is not going to let Vinnie Cerrato stand between him and the success he wants as a Redskins owner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 2:52 PM

This is crazy talk. No basis for this conclusion based on empirical evidence. This Owner's success as an owner is measured by net return on investment, not performance within the league. Vinny has been "standing" next to The Owner since he became The Owner ... not "in between" anything.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator

Trading/keeping JC is a tricky proposition as any team needing a qb is going to look seriously at three options:

Sam Bradford
Sam Bradford
Sam Bradford

Did you see the darts he was tossing in the national championship game?

Deep outs? Comebacks? Lasars tossed as soon as his backfoot hit the ground on a five-step drop.

There's too much tape on JC for somebody to want him. Let Zorn design a system that fits and get some linemen to make it all work.

And if it doesn't, Moe will starting gassing up the Cult O' Colt Bandwagon--something which, I'm washing and polishing right about now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Notorious,

I think he keeps him because he knows he can control him, I think Snyder would not enjoy owning the team if he had no say in personnel. So by keeping a guy like Vinny who can not leave and get a job somewhere else Snyder has control and a fall guy.

A true GM who is wanted around the league, would not put up with Snyder unless he changed and Snyder knows this. He also knows that Vinny will do whatever he wants because he really has no other options.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

You asked for it well via mad computer/ninja skills here it is:

The performance review of Vinny Cerrato

By Dan Snyder

List of objectives for the season in order of importance and critique.

1. Become a better lover

Vincent has become much stronger in this respect in the past few months, he has learned to just take it and be more generous.

2. Fail at the draft so fans will clamor for us to spend in FA like we used too.

Success, by drafting 10 players and having all of the underperform fans will again wish that we would spend on big name FA's, to help the bottom line of the jersey sales.

3. Successfully wast time trying to get a job in the media again.
Failure. Vincent's show was not engaging or entertaining, his fear of talking about anything of substance and a constant fear of criticism from fans resulted in a dull slow show.

Other Notes: Improvements, better at answering the phone using the correct name, has realized that people are less weirder out by his eyes when he wears sunglasses. Still needs to improve personal hygiene.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Flounder nailed that like Hugh Hefner nailed bunnies in the 1970's.....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 13, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, that theory works for me ... but the one part I don't know what to do with is the part about knowing he can't go anywhere else ... at a minimum, I had thought that the Browns owner would have waited before hiring Mangini (i.e., knowing that there would be no other takers).

Around the league though, there are plenty of owners and "GM-like-types" who have stuck together for reasons unknown, so your theory makes as much sense as any. For example, how in the name of all that is sacred and good was Matt Millen able to hold on for so long in Detroit?

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

DOC Walker summed it up a few weeks ago, if the only way a owner could make money was by feilding a winning team, there would be alot of changes in the NFL.

Do you really think Cerrato would still be here if winning was the only way Snyder could make money off the Skins?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

[Also, I haven't read The Owner's performance review lately, but what has the share value of Six Flags been recently?]

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:51 PM

That's the advantage -- or disadvantage -- of being the owner: no performance review. You're the only guy in the company who doesn't have to answer to anyone.

And, he's not owner of Six Flags (or Two Flags as it will be known after the downsizing). He only has about six percent of the shares. As for the share value, sell quickly while you still can. The company is likely to be de-listed if the shares stay below $1.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

For example, how in the name of all that is sacred and good was Matt Millen able to hold on for so long in Detroit?

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:09 PM |

That is a mystery that Ford will take to his grave.

I actually think compared to Millen Vinny is a genious.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Flounder nailed that like Hugh Hefner nailed bunnies in the 1970's.....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 13, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Lol, I don't know if you've noticed but he still aint doing to bad in that department, but I must echo that this theory IMHO is exactly right. Boy George is playing fantasy football in real life and Vinny is the highest paid scout in the history of the league that's all. It's Dan's team and he tried giving up control to Marty (which coincided with some of our best football in the last 15 years at the end of that season) but didn't like and won't do it again unless its for a Parcells or Cowher or Shanahan type name. Face it, only way the Danny and Vinny go is if a name like that gets a bank thrown at them and comes here.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

+++“Are the Redskins going to fire (executive VP/football operations) Vinny Cerrato for this mess? Are there any other executives hosting their own drive-time radio shows? He’s the laughingstock of D.C. Even the fans can figure out what the owner is too blind to see. As long as (Cerrato) is in the building, the Redskins have no chance.”

Gotta love our chances of picking up some interior line gems with these clowns making the picks.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo+++

Lots of respect for t Posters with their complex plans for gettign Boldin and Sproles, revamping the D into a 3-4, and fixing all that ails the team on Offense.

Last year the goals were as follows:

Get a receiver or two who could have an impact on WCO. VINNY produced....Oh for three in the draft,. Oh for whatever in FAs.

Needed a DE to replace Daniels. VINNY produced: Oh for two.

A Punter. VINNY produced Oh for three.

A Nickle Corner. VINNY produced Oh for One in the draft, (Tryon) perhaps One for One in FA (Hall) at the cost of an incumbent (Rogers)

Offensive line depth VINNY produced. OH for One. Not a down did Rinehart play.

And THIS year he has FOUR picks.

As my sweet Aunt, Sister Mary Bridget would say: Oy Gevalt!

Posted by: TheCork | January 13, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Man ....the JLC has been describing the Redskins so far this offseason...WOW...It's amazing they even won a game....And what a hell of a job Zorn did with what he had...I mean he should have been coach of the year going 8 and 8 with a team as bad as JLC talks about...

Posted by: leevi98 | January 13, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

New England Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli has agreed to become head of football operations for the Kansas City Chiefs, two NFL sources confirmed to ESPN's Michael Smith.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 13, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Do you really think Cerrato would still be here if winning was the only way Snyder could make money off the Skins?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:09 PM

Someone put up a story the other day by Keim saying that both Zorn and Vinnie are on a short leash, knowing that if they don't produce this year they both could be gone. That makes sense to me. He thought the implication was that they would try to trade 2010 draft picks for extra picks in 2009, which also makes sense.

As for Doc Walker, blah, blah. By the nature of competition, half the teams -- 16 -- won't produce winning records each year. And each year there are lots of changes. How many coaches have been fired this year? Oakland, Cleveland, Jets, St. Louis, Detroit, Denver. Am I missing any?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I just kicked some AI a$$ in Wii Tennis, I'm at 1626 anybody know if anything special happens when you reach 2000? I think that is as high as you can go.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

flound, that is very impressive, nicely done.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

New England Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli has agreed to become head of football operations for the Kansas City Chiefs, two NFL sources confirmed to ESPN's Michael Smith.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 13, 2009 3:19 PM |

They are going to get alot better in a hurry.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

... I'm at 1626 anybody know if anything special happens when you reach 2000? ...

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:21 PM

At 2000, your Wii links to Cindy Boren's desktop computer ... and she responds with another ultimatum.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

No basis for this conclusion based on empirical evidence.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 2:59 PM

BS, sween. He fired Vinnie once before to make room for Schottenheimer, and he'd fire him again if Vinnie doesn't do the job at least as well as Schottenheimer did.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I thought that once you reach 2000 Serena Williams and Anna Kournikova come to your house....thats what I thought anyway....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

I'm at 765 in baseball and it is impossible to win a game, they hit every pitch I throw for HR's.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

That owner in KC was another guy with a long term loyalty to a fault ... although Carl Peterson did, once upon a time, participate in the building of a long-term high achieving team.

On the short lease article, if anyone could repost that, I'd be much obliged. Zorn should get a longer leash than Vinny. Zorn should get at least three years starting this past Week One. Vinny's clock started a while ago. I do presume, however, if that if Vinny were released, then a new GM would come in wanting authority to hire his own coach.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

.And what a hell of a job Zorn did with what he had...I mean he should have been coach of the year going 8 and 8 with a team as bad as JLC talks about...

I actually do think it was a great year for what we have on the roster. We road CP till the wheels fell off cause that's all there is.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I thought that once you reach 2000 Serena Williams and Anna Kournikova come to your house....thats what I thought anyway....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:26 PM

No, John McEnroe comes and screams at you. That stuff of yours is just a fantasy.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I thought that once you reach 2000 Serena Williams and Anna Kournikova come to your house....thats what I thought anyway....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:26 PM |

That would be interesting!

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I should regurgitate my etymology of the word "_stumped_". You don't seem to see the road for all the stumps strewn everywhere. And there are quite a few one must admit.

Okay, first I never said that Vinnie hamstrung or restricted Gibbs in anyway. But we must agree that (which is why Marty fired him) Vinnie would be an inside "spy" for the owner, the great Snidely Owl.

It is my contention that at times Gibbs was hamstrung by the owner. That a great deal of time and emotional capital on Gibb's part was spent placating the owner and keeping him from behaving erratically and making decisions based on the emotion of the moment rather than making sound, composed and objective opinions.

Vinnie Cerrato IS NOT THE GM of this team. He is vice-president in charge of player personnel. Dan Snyder (also know in Rockville as Snidely Owl) is the GM of this team. I think that last statement should speak volumes to you and remove most of the tree stumps that are strewn in your way.


"NO where has it ever been reported or written that Snyder hamstrung Gibbs in anyway, actually it has been reported several times and Gibbs said it himself that Snyder got him anything he wanted. Gibbs said if I wanted a coach he would go get him no matter what the price. He also said that any player he wanted Snyder would get. He also pretty much gave Gibbs a third race team for coming back to coach which I'm sure was part of the initial deal."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

... He fired Vinnie once before to make room for Schottenheimer, ...

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:25 PM

And he fired Schottenheimer and brought Vinny right back. The only evidence this provides is to support Flounder's 3:02PM Hefner banging theory ... if Vinny gets canned, its not because he stood between The Owner and success, but because he didn't make The Owner look like a success. And if success = revenues, for as long as the Skins rank up near the top in that category, Vinny stays because he is an enabler for The Owner's fantasy team play.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

flound, I'm at 1302, the key is to change pitch speed and location. I've found that throwing in on their hands with soft stuff fools them every time, also, the splitter is your friend. Don't throw down the middle of the plate, paint the corners.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

And if success = revenues, for as long as the Skins rank up near the top in that category, Vinny stays because he is an enabler for The Owner's fantasy team play.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:34 PM

And God help us (and our wallets) if that combo actually ever makes it to a Super Bowl.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

http://was.scout.com/2/828774.html

John Keim makes some interesting points in this Q&A particularly:

How about Clinton Portis’ comments? Do they hold weight?
A: Raise your hand if you’re tired of Portis. Now, I like when a player says things. Being in the media, it makes it more fun to have
someone pop off now and then. Sterile is boring. Portis is not boring. But I have one good reason why the running game struggled
down the stretch: Pittsburgh, New York, Dallas, and Baltimore. That and age combined with injuries did them in. When you’re
winning, you run more. W hen you’re losing, you don’t. That said, I heard grumbling from players about this so it’s not as if Portis is
way off the mark. Players felt like Jim Zorn got a bit worn with all his duties by the end and lacked imagination as a playcaller.

Q: Will the Redskins really make wholesale changes?
A: They should; they really need to make a lot. But here’s the thing: Vinny Cerrato and Zorn both are on life support. Both know
what’s out there and both know what could happen after next season if they lose. Knowing that, do you really think they want to
overhaul their offensive line with a lot of young talent, knowing that might result in more wins later but fewer wins now? I wouldn’t
be surprised, though, if they mortgaged some from future drafts to build up this one and add a few more picks, like in the second
round.


Posted by: TWISI | January 9, 2009 11:18 PM

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Kind of what I was thinking but far better stated. Thank you.

" for as long as the Skins rank up near the top in that category, Vinny stays because he is an enabler for The Owner's fantasy team play.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

And God help us (and our wallets) if that combo actually ever makes it to a Super Bowl.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

You can always do what I do, watch at home and cheer at home....HD is pretty sweet, my coach is hella comfortable and my liquor is cheap and plentiful....plus I see replays, and close ups and I have the sound done so I can listen to Sonny on the radio and the lines for the bathrooms are really short and there is virtually no traffic prior to or after the game...its pretty sweet....the last time I bought tickets to a game (Cardinals in 07) I spent $100 on parking, $150 a ticket for me and my wife, $60 on lunch at the crappy Johnny Rockets, and $10 a Jack & Coke....never ever doing that again....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Time to call in our "markers" and get a return on our investment from those cockroach Raven's fans.


"And God help us (and our wallets) if that combo actually ever makes it to a Super Bowl.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

lol, that was my couch is comfy, my coach ought to be pretty nervous with coaches that could be available next offseason.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

wait, so Serena, and Anna showed up and I have to turn them away for Johnny Mac....that hardly seems fair......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

"the last time I bought tickets to a game (Cardinals in 07) I spent $100 on parking, $150 a ticket for me and my wife, $60 on lunch at the crappy Johnny Rockets, and $10 a Jack & Coke....never ever doing that again...."

Man, eat outside at a good restaurant not at that stadium! Too bad their digs didn't end up in Montgomery County. Would have been a far better venue that's for damned sure.

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

And he fired Schottenheimer and brought Vinny right back. The only evidence this provides is to support Flounder's 3:02PM Hefner banging theory ... if Vinny gets canned, its not because he stood between The Owner and success, but because he didn't make The Owner look like a success. And if success = revenues, for as long as the Skins rank up near the top in that category, Vinny stays because he is an enabler for The Owner's fantasy team play.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 3:34 PM

Agree to disagree. He fired Vinnie to bring Schottenheimer in. He didnt fire Schottenheimer to bring Vinnie back. He fired Schottenheimer to bring Spurrier in.

As far as `what makes Snyder tick` my own assumption is that he wants to hold up a Lombardi trophy and that anything that gets in his way will be pushed aside -- with the only possible exception being Snyder himself. That is, he may want to be recognized as the architect of the Lombardi trophy more than he wants the trophy itself.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

....that hardly seems fair......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 3:43 PM |

You were the guy who was the big victim in Bernie Madoff`s Bonus Points Pyramid Scam, right? And you still think that you can find anything in life that`s fair? Man, you are so naive that they shouldn`t let you out on the streets without a guardian.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

You like to change in mid argument don't you, we were not discussing who runs the team now, I would agree that Snyder is making alot of the decisions.

Gibbs got what ever he wanted he did not have to placate the owner, the owner was not making decisions.

And for the last time Vinny had very little say if any while Gibbs was here, I believe that was reported several times as well.

Those facts boy they sure do get in the way sometimes.

I know 100's of people that live in Rockville and none of them know Snyder as Snidely Owl, stop trying to act like you live in the same neighborhood as the man. I grew up in Rockville and comparing it to the part of Potomac that Snyder lives in is like comparing Beverly Hills to Rosita.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

A true GM would not have a framed photo of the owner's parents prominently displayed on his desk. But then, he had never had that title conferred on him ... now has he? ~smiles~

"A true GM who is wanted around the league, would not put up with Snyder unless he changed and Snyder knows this. He also knows that Vinny will do whatever he wants because he really has no other options.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

flounder, I am at 2004 in wii tennis, the only thing that happens is that if you lose a game in a five-set match, you lose points. If you win, you get nothing. (Straight set victory = 7 points?!@?)
The computer seems to top out with one player at 2000 and the other at 1950.

Posted by: daggar | January 13, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it just wonderful, 8am and it's 30 Degrees (86F)

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Conveniently forgetting that developers north on 28 changed the zip so that they claim it was Potomac. I probably have forgotten more than you will ever know about Rockville and Gaithersburg. Is Potomac that much different? Well, they like to think they are but I never saw any real difference ... yeah they have mansions and such but I kind of always liked places like Brookville, Sandy Springs, Ashton, Highland to name a few. Potomac, bah what a bunch of panzies. Heck I'll take Leesburg and Poolsville.

So, you know Snidely Owl eh? ~laughing~ Just like
you know office politics ... Gibbs is a master at insider politics when it came to the Redskins. He frustrated more than a few reporters by his lack of "candor" ... :)

But Ol' Danny can be a bit hard to control ...

"I know 100's of people that live in Rockville and none of them know Snyder as Snidely Owl, stop trying to act like you live in the same neighborhood as the man. I grew up in Rockville and comparing it to the part of Potomac that Snyder lives in is like comparing Beverly Hills to Rosita."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

A true GM would not have a framed photo of the owner's parents prominently displayed on his desk. But then, he had never had that title conferred on him ... now has he? ~smiles~

"A true GM who is wanted around the league, would not put up with Snyder unless he changed and Snyder knows this. He also knows that Vinny will do whatever he wants because he really has no other options.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:50 PM |

I would like to know were you got this information, or are you just saying dumb sh!t as usual.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I'm here in Cayucos looking at the Pier, the surf and the surfers. Where are you right now punk?

"I grew up in Rockville and comparing it to the part of Potomac that Snyder lives in is like comparing Beverly Hills to Rosita."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I suspect you are right ... however it may be as much about being short, non athletic and a bit myopic. He has the hot model wife from Hot-lanta, the billions but that isn't enough apparently. Poor ol' Snidely Owl.

"That is, he may want to be recognized as the architect of the Lombardi trophy more than he wants the trophy itself."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

That is from the Washington Post. Boswell I think in 2007. Don't you keep up with the sports page here boy?

"I would like to know were you got this information, or are you just saying dumb sh!t as usual.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

kost, sounds like your world has been turned upside down! (or maybe ours has up here, in the northern hemisphere ... the BEST hemisphere).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Per,

Since you want to act like a child, I will ask you a few questions about Rockville to see if your as knowledgable as you think you are.

What is the beer store that sits across from Wintergreen plaza in Rockville?

What famous football player went to High School in rockville?

What park is off of Monroe street in Rockville, if you ever played any sports as a youth you would have gone there?

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

That is from the Washington Post. Boswell I think in 2007. Don't you keep up with the sports page here boy?

"I would like to know were you got this information, or are you just saying dumb sh!t as usual.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:03 PM |

Well thats proof I'm sorry you win that argument. You're such a moron.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Rockville SUCKS LOSERS GET OVER IT

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

That's a compliment coming from a panzy panty waist who learns everything at WII parties.

"Well thats proof I'm sorry you win that argument. You're such a moron.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Boyz boyz boyz! Take a deep breath and chill.

Did anybody see the play that the Cardinals ran -- it was a fake WR screen. They set it up just like the WR screen the Redskins run about 10 times a game. Only, instead of throwing the screen to the WR, Warner went to Fitzgerald who started off inside-out, as if to block but instead turned upfield.

It looked like it was headed for big yards, but Fitz dropped the ball.

Anyway, the Redskins looked like they didn't do any of that this year: take their successful plays and come up with riffs on them. Basic idea is that D will figure out a way to stop it, so you change it up a bit and fool'em again.

I think JZ got so consumed with his head coaching duties he wasn't able to sit down and tinker with the offense.

He needs an OC, or somebody who can take on a role like that, leaving the play calling to Zorn.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Well I gotta go Periculum it's going to be hard to find those anwsers on the internet, but give it a try.

And let me tell you that forgetting more about Rockville then I have ever known makes you a man in my book.

Hit me up tomorrow when you get time in the computer lab at your elementary school.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

++++ Kiem comment:
Q: Will the Redskins really make wholesale changes?
A: They should; they really need to make a lot. But here’s the thing: Vinny Cerrato and Zorn both are on life support. Both know
what’s out there and both know what could happen after next season if they lose. Knowing that, do you really think they want to
overhaul their offensive line with a lot of young talent, knowing that might result in more wins later but fewer wins now? I wouldn’t
be surprised, though, if they mortgaged some from future drafts to build up this one and add a few more picks, like in the second
round.
++++

This is the worst possible strategy for the Skins. 2009 is not a year where the Skins have a realistic shot at winning. Any plan should be built on an assumption that 5-11 is acceptable as long as you have several young guys showing that they can play at this level.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Boyz boyz boyz! Take a deep breath and chill. ...

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 4:26 PM

Agree to disagree ... I'm getting my popcorn ready for RedDMV v. TheTruth11, Part Two.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Rockville SUCKS LOSERS GET OVER IT

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:24 PM |

And you know that you suck when a fan of the University of Georgia tells you that you suck! That is sucking bad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh gee ...

What is the first drinking establishment on Rockville Pike, its name starts with an "H".
Gee I'm helping maybe I am a Moron. It might have been one of the first places of its ilk on that old farm road.

What's the name of the Catholic church near that park with oldest cemetary in Rockville?

Where in Silver Spring is the original house that the Exorcist was based on? Where is the stairwell used in the movie?

What number road did the confederates follow when they almost took the Nations capital in the Civil War. What are its names today?

What is Maryland's state flower? Its state bird? Who was Maryland named after. Where was the original name of Montgomery County when the state was first founded? What other counties where encompassed in that county?

Per,

Since you want to act like a child, I will ask you a few questions about Rockville to see if your as knowledgable as you think you are.

What is the beer store that sits across from Wintergreen plaza in Rockville?

What famous football player went to High School in rockville?

What park is off of Monroe street in Rockville, if you ever played any sports as a youth you would have gone there?

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

... Any plan should be built on an assumption that 5-11 is acceptable as long as you have several young guys showing that they can play at this level.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 4:28 PM

... and as long as the five wins are at home ... in October/November.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

You idiot, imbecile. I went to school there and actually studied unlike WII brains like you.

"Per,

Since you want to act like a child, I will ask you a few questions about Rockville to see if your as knowledgable as you think you are."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

this is the lamest blogfight EVER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Scratch that ... RedDMV v. TheTruth11 was a lot better to watch than the Flounder v. periculum Quiz Bowl (with your host, Mac McGarry!)

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Athens is worst by far ... but a great place to parteee and Atlanta's traffic is far worst than Rockville Pike's got us beat there duuuude.

"Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:24 PM |

And you know that you suck when a fan of the University of Georgia tells you that you suck! That is sucking bad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Friggin WII brain. Answer mine and I'll answer yours ... man that is a lousy school RMC. Maybe if he went to Walt Whitman he'd be a tad smarter. But anyone who would name himself flounder would be found at a panty waist school like RMC.

"Well I gotta go Periculum it's going to be hard to find those anwsers on the internet, but give it a try.

And let me tell you that forgetting more about Rockville then I have ever known makes you a man in my book.

Hit me up tomorrow when you get time in the computer lab at your elementary school.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting my popcorn ready for RedDMV v. TheTruth11, Part Two.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:29 PM |

Nothing like watching two heavyweights step into the ring, especially when youve got a ringside seat and popcorn for the event. Flounder/periculum is just a preliminary for the main event.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty simple. You pretty much cannot buy a championship. You have to draft well, especially in rounds 2-7. Not only do you get the players before they even hit their physical prime, they are generally much cheaper. You sign a 28 yr old F/A who has been balling at a Pro Bowl level for 6 years - you're going to overpay for a guy that might have 2 more years of elite performance left. As someone in his early 30's, it pains me to say but face it, by 30 you are usually over the hill in the NFL at most positions. Whoever is saying we should sign TJ Houshmanzadah needs to put down the pipe and/or hand it to me because I want what you're smoking. Dude will be 31 by season's start. What do you expect to get from him? 1 good year? Maybe 2? OK great. Is that worth $20 million guranteed?

Just say no to all big F/A splashes. Yes, sign some quality, affordable depth on the O-line. But no Gross, no Peppers, no HAYNESWORTH. I've admittedly waivered on this but we shouldn't go there.

If we don't start to treat draft picks like gold (read: FIRE/marginalize Vincenzo), it's gonna be 15 more long, lean years.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

That's very wise advice. We need more youth on this team. I'm not opposed to signing 27 yr old FA's. But you can't break the bank by signing the most expensive ones. Conserve the salary cap, and get young athletes.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I know beating the crap out of a lightweight moronic geek like flounder is less than entertaining ... not even enough for an afternoon snack.

"Nothing like watching two heavyweights step into the ring, especially when youve got a ringside seat and popcorn for the event. Flounder/periculum is just a preliminary for the main event.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Question: with Pioli in Kansas City (and Spagnuolo the apparent HC front runner), how quickly do the "developmental down roster" guys from NE and NYG get poached? Couldn't happen to two more deserving teams.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

LOS ANGELES (AP) - All-American safety Taylor Mays has decided to return to Southern California for his senior season rather than turn pro.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Taylor Mays will be a bust in the NFL.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

After Flounder's departure, periculum is the "winner" by default. periculum totally rules Rockville Pike ... that's resume material.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and gentlemen...Let's get ready to exchange pointless trivia about a DC suburb...

Posted by: mack1 | January 13, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Oh gee and flounder had to leave too? Just in the nick of time ... :)

Flounder the red-finned tuna had a very shiny fin.
And if you ever saw it it would even make you grin.
All of the mermaids and sea wenches used to laugh and call him names.
They never let poor flounder join in any dating games.
Then one foggy sargasso sea Neptune came to say,
"Flounder with your fin so bright, won't you guide my seahorseys tonight!"
Then how the wenches loved him as they shouted out with glee.
Flounder the red-finned tuna you'll be canned in a fishery!!!


"this is the lamest blogfight EVER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

The ultimate insult ... a mindless, lame take-off on Rudolph the Rednosed reindeer ... perfect send-off for a light weight geek.

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

kost, sounds like your world has been turned upside down! (or maybe ours has up here, in the northern hemisphere ... the BEST hemisphere).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:04 PM

I know! The blood is rushing to my feet!

...BEST Hemisphere???

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Per,

You went to Rockville high, we used to beat you little punks down at the Rockville pike McDonalds.

Knowing that you went there tells me all I need to know about you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Looks like we are finally all wising up. That's what the Patriots have been doing. And the Ravens.

"Just say no to all big F/A splashes. Yes, sign some quality, affordable depth on the O-line. But no Gross, no Peppers, no HAYNESWORTH. I've admittedly waivered on this but we shouldn't go there."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and gentlemen ... Let's get ready to exchange pointless trivia about a DC suburb ...

Posted by: mack1 | January 13, 2009 4:44 PM

It should be noted that no actual trivia was exchanged, only trivia questions ... about Rockville.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

...BEST Hemisphere???

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 4:48 PM

OK, that may be a stretch ... but at least in the top two.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Right ... guess again chuckles. Boy you really are lame ... I beat you down and you're still lookin' for more. Like you were some sort of bully ... ~laughing my ass off now ~

"Per,

You went to Rockville high, we used to beat you little punks down at the Rockville pike McDonalds.

Knowing that you went there tells me all I need to know about you."

Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

periculum totally rules Rockville Pike ...

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:44 PM

Periculum--Are you the one in front of Mattress Warehouse dancing around inside a big mattress? You do rule the pike! ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''Love your work, dude. Next time I need a mattress, I`m mentioning your name. `Periculum sent me!`

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

What is the first drinking establishment on Rockville Pike, its name starts with an "H". Hooters
Gee I'm helping maybe I am a Moron. It might have been one of the first places of its ilk on that old farm road.

What's the name of the Catholic church near that park with oldest cemetary in Rockville? St. Marys

Where in Silver Spring is the original house that the Exorcist was based on? Where is the stairwell used in the movie?

Were talking Rockville you jacka$$ not Silver Spring.

The steps are in Georgetown.

What number road did the confederates follow when they almost took the Nations capital in the Civil War. What are its names today? Again your questions are not about Rockville.

What is Maryland's state flower? Its state bird? Who was Maryland named after. Where was the original name of Montgomery County when the state was first founded? What other counties where encompassed in that county? Again you like to change the argument.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

FLOUNDER +1

he just OWNED THAT TRIVIA


smacked it back in peri's face!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, girlfriend, please.

I don't believe Gibbs had full sway over anyting and I think developments exemplify this. You don't. That's fine. Somehow your 'fly on the wall' status at Redskin Park have convinced you of this certainty. I still think there was another gunman on the grassy knoll.

Parcells, if you pay attention, is doing EXACTLY what Gibbs was trying to do, short of maintaining a presence on the sideline. Sporano can do nothing w/o the say so of Parcells. And they just so happen to have changed 1) how the front office in the NFL will function going forward and 2) convinced the NFL that the wishbone ain't such a bad play afterall.

I definitely don't need you to agree with me, nor would I really want you to. You're an SJKclown. Thanks for the really interesting debate about the progress of the league and a brilliant man's contribution to it...

...maps.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

**Mays stays in college**

I think he's crazy to stay at USC. You can always go back to college, but one knee injury can cost millions of dollars. Daddy should buy insurance, the guy is a top 10 pick right now.

This means that DingleBerry and Mays might be in the same draft, if Dingle comes out (so to speak) as a junior, right?

Who knows, the Redskins might have a top 5 pick next year! Listening to you nattering nabobs of negativism, it's amazing they won any games at all.

Truth, I bet you a beer that Mays is not a bust in the NFL. And admit that you were right and I was wrong. More likely, by his 3rd season he's a terror.

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 13, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Peri, wasn't that your Brandon Lloyd song?

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Snyder can do and say as he pleases - I guess shelling out $800 million affords you that latitude. That notwithstanding, he should have a moral obligation to answer to the fans about what his overall strategic vision is for this team. If indeed it's only about making money, that should shine thru in his disingenuous answers. And if that's the case, then an organized boycott of tickets, merchandise, et al should seriously be considered. I'll never stop watching them and rooting for them, but the only way to truly affect change is thru shrinking his profit margin, I'm all for it.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Establishments on Rockville Pike ... JD Graffitti's. Only Mafia-themed restaurant I've ever been to. Went out of business about 30 years ago, I think.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I definitely don't need you to agree with me, nor would I really want you to. You're an SJKclown. Thanks for the really interesting debate about the progress of the league and a brilliant man's contribution to it...

...maps.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 4:55 PM |

Whatever I don't agree with you because unless you work there you know not what you talk about. I am going of confirmed news reports, not hatred of Snyder.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"Establishments on Rockville Pike ... JD Graffitti's. Only Mafia-themed restaurant I've ever been to. Went out of business about 30 years ago, I think.

Posted by: zcezcest1"

oh crap, we have ANOTHER COMPETITOR in the Rockville Pikes Trivia Challenge 2009!!


This is getting serious!!!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 13, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Per,

You get into your car yet you want directions to the places so you can anwser the questions?

You are worthless argument over!

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

... That notwithstanding, he should have a moral obligation to answer to the fans about what his overall strategic vision is for this team. If indeed it's only about making money, that should shine thru in his disingenuous answers. ...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 4:59 PM

It is and he has (i.e., he has answered to the fans ... with disingenuous answers ... to which the response is not so much a boycott but rather payment ... price is what the market will bear ... and when the market does not bear that price, about 20 people get canned at the Park).

Doom, I tell ya, doom ... fortunately, they still sell beer through the third quarter. Fourth quarter? Head to zjfr2/jack's place.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm serious. Call me naieve or a dreamer, fine. Maybe I am. But I see no reason that fans don't send him a letter/petition with 100,000 signatures demanding some answers and suggesting that their future financial contributions to his coffers might ride on his responses. I'll start it- WHO'S WITH ME??!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Dam PSP how do you do this all day I have a headache.

Per,

I think people are getting bored of are argument, so lets just say we are both knowledgable of the place we grew up and leave it at that.

If you want to argue Skins I'm there.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Per,

You get into your car yet you want directions to the places so you can anwser the questions?

You are worthless argument over!

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Snap!

Posted by: mack1 | January 13, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm serious. Call me naieve or a dreamer, fine. Maybe I am. But I see no reason that fans don't send him a letter/petition with 100,000 signatures demanding some answers and suggesting that their future financial contributions to his coffers might ride on his responses. I'll start it- WHO'S WITH ME??!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 5:08 PM |

I would be with you but I don't think he really cares, the only thing that will effect Snyder is loosing alot of money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

...BEST Hemisphere???

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 4:48 PM

OK, that may be a stretch ... but at least in the top two.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Gold, Jerry.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | January 13, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

If you want to argue Skins I'm there.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:09 PM

Oh, dude, please, just don't. Stick with the Rockville trivia, but PLEASE don't encourage him to prattle on about the Skins.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Oh, dude, please, just don't. Stick with the Rockville trivia, but PLEASE don't encourage him to prattle on about the Skins.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:12 PM |

This way I don't have to argue with him by myself, not many people agree with his Skins talk.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

only thing that will effect Snyder is loosing alot of money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:11 PM

It will cause him to lay off more people which we dont like either. Face it: he pwns us.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Still think they need an instant starter at the LT position if they can get one. Plus guard/center. Then kicker.

Posted by: periculum | January 12, 2009 2:20 AM

Flounder--How can you say people dont agree with him? No one took exception to this post from 2:20 in the morning. Dude had to have been drinking.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN

Ole Miss OT Michael Oher
There are times when Oher is flat-out dominant. There are other times, though, when he is beaten by a clearly inferior opponent. That inconsistency is maddening and makes it difficult for a scout to stamp Oher with a high grade. While he possesses the physical tools to warrant top-15 consideration, it will be interesting to see if he slips to the bottom half of the first round -- or beyond -- because of concerns regarding his work ethic, motor and overall toughness.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 13, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

This way I don't have to argue with him by myself, not many people agree with his Skins talk.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:14 PM

Many people gave up on it long ago ... just skipping over all of it completely ... its easier than having to explain to your friends and family why you have jammed knitting needles into your eye sockets.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

I think they could probably find flaws with all the OT's in the draft.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Well, you got me there. I definitely dislike the Danny. And I don't work at RP, do you?

I am a conspiracy theorist and believe that the media is a tool of business, to be manipulated.

I am aware that Gibbs took responsibility for the hiring of Saunders. I have a very difficult time believing that this was done w/o pressure from fo given that it was after a playoff appearance season. The motivations for bringing in a new offensive mind couldn't be from a coaching perspective because from that aspect they were successful. Could it have been Fan discontent that fueled the move? Or the Dan's reaction to the season. I see more questions than answers.

I have these opinions for reasons - not just knee-jerk reactions or regurgitations from strategically placed media appearances.

I hear you. You don't believe Gibbs 2.0 contributed to the offensive development of the NFL.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

BRONCOS GIVE BATES PERMISSION TO TALK TO RAIDERS
Posted by Mike Florio on January 13, 2009, 5:05 p.m. EST
Well, it’s a safe bet that Broncos quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates is no longer in Denver’s plans, given that the team has given the despised (by the Broncos) Raiders permission to interview Bates for a position on the Oakland coaching staff.

By rule, teams can block assistant coaches from taking any position with a new team other than head coach.

Bates, 32, called the offensive plays for the Broncos in 2008.

But since new head coach Josh McDaniels will call the plays moving forward, Bates’ ongoing presence might be awkward.

Then again, Bates’ departure could be awkward, too, given that quarterback Jay Cutler has made it known that he wants Bates to stay.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I read another scouting report on Oher that said he was complete money on pass protection, but that in the running game he was inconsistent and that that was the bit that drove scouts nuts. Lemme see whether I can re-trace my steps.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

dik,

Lets just say we could both be right or we could both be wrong, there is no real way to ever get at the truth.

Gibbs would never say anything, and anything Snyder/Vinny say has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Greg, this is the site were I found the bit about Oher (they have him going to the Eagles, but their slot order is all wrong anyway).

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php

I'd cut and paste it here, but its copy-protected.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

I'm starting to think that LB is more likely to be our 1st Rounder than a DE.

OT still the most likely though.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

16 PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: MICHAEL OHER, OT, OLE MISS

Scouting Report
Some may be surprised to see Michael Oher this low but of all the top prospects he has the best chance to slide a bit on Draft Day. Oher is probably the most physically gifted offensive lineman in this draft but there are some significant question marks when it comes to his intangibles that could give teams pause. Also, while Oher is an outstanding pass protector his effort in the run game comes and goes, although he has flashed the ability to stand out in that area at times as well. Oher could ultimately end up in the Top 5-10 overall but there is also a chance he could fall to the end of round one. If Oher did begin to drop the Eagles would be more than happy to stop his slide because they could certainly use a talented young offensive tackle. Both Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan are in their mid-30's and nearing the end of the line and since Winston Justice hasn't developed as expected the Eagles really don't have a successor in place for either of them. Philly could also be in the market for a safety here and with L.J. Smith set to hit the open market they could opt to replace him with a guy like Jermaine Gresham rather than use the franchise tag again. Ultimately Oher is just too good to pass up and the Iggles would be very fortunate if he fell into their lap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

More of the same on Michael Oher here ... http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/Michael-Oher.php ... but the nature of the questions remaining about him would make me pause, esp. hot/cold motor and leverage issues. "Leverage" is Heyer's issue (and Heyer does seem to maintain a hot motor).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm down with that Flounder! Actually, twas a pretty good debate.. hehe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

kost,

Curry is a beast not sure who else would be worth taking at 13 at LB.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

kost ... line of scrimmage in the draft (and in the Skins case, only OT/OG*/DT) ... other positions in free agency.

* I'm still intrigued by this Harvey Dahl fella (UFA/Atlanta) ...

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

kost,

Curry is a beast not sure who else would be worth taking at 13 at LB.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 13, 2009 5:33 PM

Yeah, that seems to be the case.

I just think that with Andre Carter's contract, he's most likely going to be on one end again next season, and on the other end we tend to like the bigger run stopping DE. In this year's Draft most of the DE's seem to be those smaller pass rushing ends with the exception of LSU's Tyson Jackson (290lbs), who seems to have a late 1st early 2nd round grade, and I don't think we'll reach on him since he doesn't seem to be a game changer.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

16 PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: MICHAEL OHER, OT, OLE MISS

Scouting Report
Some may be surprised to see Michael Oher this low but of all the top prospects he has the best chance to slide a bit on Draft Day. Oher is probably the most physically gifted offensive lineman in this draft but there are some significant question marks when it comes to his intangibles that could give teams pause.

That sounds like somone we would draft all day. A la Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly (Kelly had health not motivation issues.)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Rey Maualuga- This is a guy who will be able to carry our defense for years, he will be one of the faster/stronger LB's in the league and has got a V-8 under his pads. we can plug him in on the strong side and move him to the middle after fletcher retires

Posted by: DaFunBunch | January 13, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Jason,
I have enjoyed your posts by position. Depressing, but interesting and informative. Seems we are several years away from seriously challenging...too many needs.
Before we throw Campbell under the bus and put Portis out to pasture I'd like to see what they can do with the support of a good offensive line.
The 2008 draft still blows me away what a waste it was.

Posted by: Poughkeepsie | January 13, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse


I actually think compared to Millen Vinny is a genious.

Posted by: Flounder21

Really?

For openers, Millen was a much better linebacker and is a much better broadcaster.

And when it comes to drafting too many receivers, at least Millen drafted one good one and one potentially GREAT one.

And Vinny?

Posted by: TheCork | January 13, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

THANK GOD, no more talk from that guy that loves Mays, cause he is staying in school and we can quit talking about drafting another safety...

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

My 'Skins Off Season to do list:
OFFENSE
1.) Trade Betts for 3rd round pick. Sign Sproles from San Diego. Gives us the change of pace back we need.
2.) Cut Thrash and Sign a Veteran WR (Bobby Engram from Seahawks). Remember how clutch a veteran WR like McCardel was at times a year ago.
3.) Draft an OT with the 13th pick (Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Jason Smith). Immediately Start Him opposite Samuels.
4.) Cut Fabini and release Kendall. Plug Rinehart in between Samuels and Rabach.
5.) With 3rd Rd pick draft an interior offensive lineman to eventually replace Thomas. Thomas is good for one more year.
6.) Jansen, Heyer, (rookie), Geisenger are your backups.
DEFENSE
1.) Cut J Taylor (so pissed we gave up a second rounder for him when we could seriously use it). With the 3rd round pick we got for Betts Draft a DE or OLB
2.) Resign Evans (MUST-DO). Evans/Carter your two ends for another year.
3.) Cut Griffin and sign a Free Agent. (Ideally a guy like Haynesworth)
4.) Cut Washington. Sign a Free Agent this year (Dansby from the Cards). Maybe Draft a LB and DE with our first and second round picks next year.
5.) Cut Springs. Injury Prone, huge salary cap hit.
6.) Re-sign Hall. Leave Rogers contract alone this year and resign him next year (Hall and rogers together for the next 5 years)
7.) Leave Safeties alone. Landry, Horton, Doughty, Moore is nice

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

although I am still tempted to trade Rogers and try to restructure Springs' contract...You could get some serious value for him..maybe even package him with Betts and go for a first and 3rd rounder. Use those picks on O and D lineman or LB. tough to say though

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

I just want the blog commenting community to hurry up and reach a consensus on who the Skins should draft, so we can all relax until April 25-26... when we all raise our voices in horror, confusion, outrage and/or disgust at the selections they make.

Is that too much to ask?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 13, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

although I am still tempted to trade Rogers and try to restructure Springs' contract...You could get some serious value for him..maybe even package him with Betts and go for a first and 3rd rounder. Use those picks on O and D lineman or LB. tough to say though

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

If you trade Rogers, you either have to use an early pick in the draft to replace him, or you have to keep Springs. I think we should keep Rogers, try to negotiate with Springs for a lower salary, and release him if he won't negotiate. Having 3 top DB's would be nice.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

The good patrons of Hank Dietle's Cold Beer To Go frown upon this trivia war...

Posted by: CyborgSquirrel1 | January 13, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

3.) Cut Griffin and sign a Free Agent. (Ideally a guy like Haynesworth)
Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

I like your overall plan, but I'm not sure we can afford Haynesworth. You're talking about signing Dansby and Sproles, and resigning Hall and Evans. I have to doubt that we have cap space for Haynesworth too.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

The Skins have many needs that could be filled with the #13th draft pick (OT, OLB, G, and C). What if the top four OTs are gone, but the best SLB (Curry) or DT (Raji) are still available? Do you still trade down and try to pick up the best C and/or G?

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse


I just want the blog commenting community to hurry up and reach a consensus on who the Skins should draft, so we can all relax until April 25-26... when we all raise our voices in horror, confusion, outrage and/or disgust at the selections they make.

Is that too much to ask?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 13, 2009 7:08 PM
===========================================
Consensus, along with logic, well reasoned arguments, and such as, are the LAST things we need, Nate.

I'm looking forward to harebrained schemes, hair pulling, shrieking, kicking, and base ad hominem discussions right up until the draft.

Followed by more of the same immediately after.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 13, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

++++ Before we throw Campbell under the bus and put Portis out to pasture I'd like to see what they can do with the support of a good offensive line.
The 2008 draft still blows me away what a waste it was.

Posted by: Poughkeepsie ++++

Are you suggesting we trade Campbell and Portis to a team with a good offensive line?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

A lot of hostility in this blog today...

...and given that Jasno has the wide receivers and quarterbacks left to review, the anger will only continue...

...folks are pro 3-4 or con 4-3

...folks want to trade everybody but the only guys of value, number 89 and 47

...folks hate Vinny and want to barbeque his reproductive organs

...folks play video games and with the computer to blog

...folks want to draft guys who are not coming out of college

Moe just loves the Skins and wants what the fans of the iggles, cards, stillers, and ravens have this weekend: a game to talk about

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

3.) Cut Griffin and sign a Free Agent. (Ideally a guy like Haynesworth)
Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

I like your overall plan, but I'm not sure we can afford Haynesworth. You're talking about signing Dansby and Sproles, and resigning Hall and Evans. I have to doubt that we have cap space for Haynesworth too.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:16 PM |


I agree about Haynesworth. I was just saying he would be IDEAL. Definitely a long shot though if we were to do the other moves.

I cant believe we took 3 pass catchers in the second round last year. I honeslty could live with drafting 2 receivers in that round and then snagging a DE or OLineman but cmon 3 pass catchers? Who knows though, maybe ill be proven wrong next year and they will all be contributors, I hope so.

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

To the folks promoting a lot of fancy trading, movement by the FO:

Give it up

Moe is in recovery as his addictions to clever FO moves was blunted by the reality that the Skins FO has more problems than a math book.

Why give them more chances to break the fanbase's heart-- again!

Hopefully, they'll keep it simple and use the four picks they have wisely.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

The Skins have many needs that could be filled with the #13th draft pick (OT, OLB, G, and C). What if the top four OTs are gone, but the best SLB (Curry) or DT (Raji) are still available? Do you still trade down and try to pick up the best C and/or G?

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Depends on who the other 12 guys drafted by the time we get on the clock, and what the compensation is that we would get for our pick.

Some names that are intriguing... Maualuga and Laurinitis at LB, Orapko and Tyson Jackson at DE, and Raji at DT. Jackson is 6'5" 290, has the size that we could use like Evans, swapping between DE & DT. But just remember, if the 4 OT's are selected, then someone else has slipped down the charts. What about a value pick in Sam Bradford or Matthew Stafford at QB?

I don't think you take C/G at 13. There will be good options available in the 3rd round. And I don't take a S.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

The Skins have many needs that could be filled with the #13th draft pick (OT, OLB, G, and C). What if the top four OTs are gone, but the best SLB (Curry) or DT (Raji) are still available? Do you still trade down and try to pick up the best C and/or G?

Posted by: siris | January 13, 2009 7:20 PM |

Interesting question. I am not sure what I would do in that situation. If a guy like Curry is still there you have to take a long, hard look at him. And we all know vinny says "best player available" so that could be interesting

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 13, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

I meant to add that I don't think Curry will be there, but if he is, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

What about a value pick in Sam Bradford or Matthew Stafford at QB?

I don't think you take C/G at 13. There will be good options available in the 3rd round. And I don't take a S.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 7:41 PM
=======================================
The poor qb would be lucky to survive his first year in the NFL. Our OL is broken, fredie. Another year older and just a 3rd round pick, and it's going to be even worse.

And we'll be at least another year away from having a good team.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 13, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

SICWIDIT'S POLL-O-DA WEEK!

1) Bigger Skins diva: Portis or Riggins

2) You need a 50 yd field goal to go to the NFC Champioship... Mark Mosley or Adam Vinatieri

3) You're starting and ol' skool fantasy team...Fran Tarkington or Dan Fouts

4) Queen or The Eagles

5) Greatest coach meltdown:
Hal McCrae or Dennis Green

6) Beyonce or Rihanna

7) Monte Coleman or Ken Harvey

8) Ray Lewis or Mike Singletary

9) Boswell or Wise

10) Tailgaiting at Fed EX or the Nightlife at Verizon Center

11) Who should go to the Hall first? Jacoby or Grimm

12) Who will have the better career? Vince Young or Jason Campbell

13) If the Skins had to take a chance...
Michael Vick or Plaxico Buress

14) Chris Cooley or Donny Warren

Have At it!!!

Posted by: rickyroge | January 13, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

fredie

Bradford over Stafford

Bradford comes out of a 'pass all the time' system and from what I saw in the National Championship game, is able to make quick decisions and complete passes.

The Skins don't need a q-back, though.

The draft should be: rt, rg/wlb, c, dt or something like that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 you hit the nail on the head-right on!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | January 13, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

And when it comes to drafting too many receivers, at least Millen drafted one good one and one potentially GREAT one.

And Vinny?

Posted by: TheCork | January 13, 2009 6:31 PM

Well, if Vinny had been picking first or second every year, he would have done better than Millen. When you`re picking in the second round, well, you`re not even eating Millen`s leftovers, you`re eating his ....

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

ricky

about #6

Beyonce or Rihanna

I'll take Karen Steffens over either of them.

She's average looking.

But I hear she has other, more interesting skills to make up for her lack of looks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

It amazes me that people think that Betts has any trade value. Running backs are a dime a dozen and he isn't all that good. Come on people, he had 1 good season and fumbles.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

++++ Before we throw Campbell under the bus and put Portis out to pasture I'd like to see what they can do with the support of a good offensive line.
The 2008 draft still blows me away what a waste it was.

Posted by: Poughkeepsie ++++

Are you suggesting we trade Campbell and Portis to a team with a good offensive line?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 7:28 PM

That`s not `throwing them under the bus.` That`s delivering them to the promised land. No, we can`t do that. They`re not worthy.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

AND PUT COLT IN THERE!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | January 13, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

4) Queen or The Eagles

Queens Of The Stone Age overall, but lately it definitely Eagles Of Death Metal.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

HERE IS WHAT THE SKINS SHOULD DO...


WE NEED TO DO WHAT THE CAPS DID...

STRIP THE ENTIRE TEAM...

OVER 30.......GONE

HAVE VALUE.............TRADE


WE ARE ALL TRUE FANS AND WE ARE TOTALLY SICK OF THIS TEAM.WE ARE A MEDIOCRE TEAM
AND THAT WON'T CHANGE.

SNYDER NEEDS TO BITE THE BULLET....

FACT: IF THE SKINS STRIPPED 60% OF THE ROSTER....

WE THE FANS WOULD SUPPORT IT....

LOVE IT....

AND DEMAND IT...

SNYDER NEEDS TO REALIZE THAT HE WILL STILL MAKE THE SAME MONEY BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR TEAM AND IF IT TOOK A FEW YEARS....SO WHAT


AT LEAST WE WILL BE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

ANY DIRECTION WILL DO...

YOUR THOUGHTS..........


Posted by: rhowze | January 13, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

scampbell

Somewhat true about Betts.

But the guy practices and doesn't play.

And he backs up a guy who doesn't practice and plays all the time, even when he's hurt and ineffective.

The front office hired coaches who don't run the type of running plays he excelled at: the fullback lead and 'power-O' where he follows a guard and fullback.

The Madden GM would take a sal cap hit, cut the guy (nothing against him), and bring in Derrick Ward.

Portis-Ward as a one-two punch behind an improving line is the easiest way to revamp the offense.

But honestly: do you trust this FO to do such a simple thing?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

1) diva: Portis

2) 50 yd field goal ... Adam Vinatieri

3) You're starting and ol' skool fantasy team... Dan Fouts

4) The Eagles

5) Greatest coach meltdown: Hal McCrae

6) Beyonce

7) Ken Harvey

8) Ray Lewis

9) Boswell

10) Shark Tank

11) Who should go to the Hall first? Jacoby (but at this point ... be nice to see 1!!)

12) Who will have the better career? Jason Campbell

13) If the Skins had to take a chance... we don't have to take a chance

14) Chris Cooley

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 8:31 PM | Report abuse

But honestly: do you trust this FO to do such a simple thing?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:30 PM
==========================================
If only more organizations valued the Keep It Simple, Stupid! principle.

Big egos prevent it, and this leads to gross incompetence, and such as.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 13, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

YOUR THOUGHTS..........

Posted by: rhowze | January 13, 2009 8:25 PM

All caps never works for me.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

You'd take on Beyonce after Jigga tossed her aside?

If you take Rihanna, at least you have someone younger you can straighen out after having been confused by whoever Chris Brown is.

I'd still take Karen Steffens over either of them.

Moe like skills, not looks in a partner.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

But honestly: do you trust this FO to do such a simple thing?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:30 PM

No I don't. I'm not saying cut Betts either. All I'm saying is he has no trade value but he is a decent back. I remember watching him at Iowa, he was a power runner with a big line. Why we have him and try to run him behind our small line is beyond me. He is not a good fit here. The Madden GM in me doesn't really know what to do with him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Why we have him and try to run him behind our small line is beyond me. He is not a good fit here.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 8:45 PM

I`m thinking that no one is a good fit behind this line, at least as it ended the year. And I`m not optomistic it will be much better next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 13, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

scampbell

I like the guy.

Betts

The FO signed him because of the year he had when Portis was hurt, but didn't have a plan for how he was to be used.

He doesn't have a lot of mileage on him, but he's a power back on a team featuring the stretch play to satisfy Portis.

In DC, he's expendable. Ward is has more speed and is better suited to what the Skins run.

Plus: Ward and Jacobs are UFA's and given choices, you sign Jacobs, and waive good-bye to Ward, unless he wants to still for a small pay raise.

And who wants that?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

This guy is projected as a 4th at this moment. He'll be in the East/West Shrine game if you want to do some "scouting". He's more of a RT than LT.


Fenuki Tupou | OTScouts Grade: Insider Only2009 NCF STATS
No Information Available at this Time
Height: 6'5"
Weight: 333 lbs
College: OREGON
Flag: N/A
Overall Rank: 91
Position Rank: 10

Player|NCAA School|Position|Flag|All Ranked Players|NFL Draft History.ProfileNewsESPN LocalBlog NetworkGrading Scale

Overall Football Traits
Production 3 2004-05: Tupou enrolls at Grid-Wire Junior College where he started for two seasons. 2006: Transferred to Oregon and the Ducks red-shirted him. 2007: Started 12 of 13 games at the left tackle position.
Height-Weight-Speed 2 Excellent bulk, wide frame and adequate top-end speed.
Durability 1 Has not missed time due to injury.
Character 0 N/A

Offensive Tackle specific Traits
Strength/Toughness 1 Violent and displays brute strength at times. Wields a strong initial punch and can jolt defenders initially. Plays with a mean streak
Agility 2 Gets to the second level fairly well and can engulf linebackers when cutting them off. Above-average body control for his size and can adjust to the moving target at the second level.
Awareness 4 A bit raw in this category because of lack of playing experience on a higher level. Flashes ability to recognize and stay home against defensive stunts
Pass Protection 2 Reliable on the edge showing nimble feet along with a strong punch. Displays good patience letting rushers come to him rather than lunging. Possess a stout base and able to neutralize any attempt at a bull rush. Locks out and rides speed rusher by the pocket with long arms.
Run Blocking 2 A road grader that uses natural strength and leverage to root defenders off the ball. Locks defenders out with strong punch and long arms. Lacks ideal quickness and takes false steps at times so doesn't always get into ideal position
Trait Scale
1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Mista, when offered a choice like the one Ricky offered, I chose wisely. As for 1st hand knowledge of any of these lady's skills ... nope. Don't know their disease history, either.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Moe, I'm with you there. I like him, but as TE said, I'm not so sure anyone can be very good behind this line for any extended period of time. Portis has shown that he is a beast but with this line he gets so beat up that he can't last a whole season. Gotta get younger on that line in a hurry.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

From Pro-Football Weekly-

The Redskins are back in a familiar position. A year after having an unusual offseason with almost no free-agent activity and 10 draft picks, the team will be forced to trim some aged and expensive talent and currently has only four draft picks with which to work. The Redskins have first-, third-, fifth- and sixth-round picks, having traded away their second-, fourth- and seventh-round picks in separate deals for Jason Taylor, Pete Kendall and Erasmus James. The team wants to add picks and might have the depth at cornerback to make a trade. The most likely to go? Believe it or not, Carlos Rogers. Through the first part of the season, Rogers was playing at a Pro Bowl level, but he fell off and eventually was demoted to playing nine defensive snaps in the loss to the Bengals. The club would like to work out a long-term deal with free-agent-to-be DeAngelo Hall, and not Rogers — whose deal has one year remaining — and could use him as trade bait. One estimated guess at Rogers’ value: a second-round pick, which would offset the draft-pick shortage somewhat.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPydgMoTs04

Late round DE prospect. Lawrence Sidbury Jr 6'2" 265 lbs.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

I hope they don't do that Kost. Why create a shortage where there currently is none? Springs is gone soon, Smoot ain't that good. If chosen wisely (yea right), 4 picks could do us a lot of good. I feel like trading Rogers to get a second rounder is trading a known for an unknown.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

The poor qb would be lucky to survive his first year in the NFL. Our OL is broken, fredie. Another year older and just a 3rd round pick, and it's going to be even worse.

And we'll be at least another year away from having a good team.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 13, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

The question was, if the top 4 OT's are taken when we pick at 13. All I'm saying is, I think it is a stretch to take the #5 OT in the 13th slot.

So I would either trade down, or look for a player worthy of the 13th selection. I would tend to pick SLB or DT or De. But it depends on who has already been taken in the first 12 selections.

And then I posed the possibility of taking the #1 QB as a value selection.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

The one player that concerns me at the 13th spot if he's there is Jeremy Maclin. He's the type of players the FO likes in the 1st round, i.e. a playmaker. He also could fit various roles for the team (KR, PR, and WR). The skins should pass on him, but I'd bet they'll be tempted.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

I hope they don't do that Kost. Why create a shortage where there currently is none? Springs is gone soon, Smoot ain't that good. If chosen wisely (yea right), 4 picks could do us a lot of good. I feel like trading Rogers to get a second rounder is trading a known for an unknown.

Posted by: scampbell1975

I know what you're saying, but you'd have to admit, that with the way he was treated towards the end of the season, it's a possibility.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

From ProFootball Weekly-

Washington's Top 3 Draft Needs -

Washington Redskins

DL — This team needs a major infusion of talent here, likely with multiple bodies. The Redskins haven’t drafted a defensive lineman higher than the fifth round since 1997. DEs Jason Taylor and Phillip Daniels and DT Cornelius Griffin are on the back ends of their careers and possible salary-cap casualties.

OLB — All three LB spots could use some help, but there’s more of a priority outside. Marcus Washington is hurt too often and might not be brought back; Rocky McIntosh has worn down and hasn’t made a lot of plays.

OL — Stephon Heyer might never turn into a quality starter, and Chad Rinehart probably projects to left guard, so the focus could be at tackle. Aging OTs Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen need to be replaced at some point, and so do OGs Randy Thomas and Pete Kendall.


At last it seems that someone is on target with the team needs.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

The favortism needs to stop. The coaches need to let these young kids play once the OTAs start and the whole preseason on the offensive and defensive lines.

They know what the old veterans can do which ain't much .

What I don't understand is how they draft guys but are afraid to let them play I mean evey other team in the league makes a commitment to younger guys why can't the Skins?

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | January 13, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

I know what you're saying, but you'd have to admit, that with the way he was treated towards the end of the season, it's a possibility.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 9:43 PM |

He's only got himself to blame for that. He got beat on a couple double moves just like the old D.M. McStonehands. I'm tired of these millionaires crying like babies instead of doing their jobs. What he needs to do is play this next year like he's trying to earn a nice fat contract, especially if the cap is gone.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

I know Darren Sproles is getting mentioned quite a bit up here, as a change of pace back/home run hitter. I know we definitely lack the big runs, I've mentioned once before that we were 4th in the league for 20+ yards runs, but last in the league for 40+ yard runs.

I'm not sure that CP is entirely to blame for that, people question his speed and explosiveness, but lets not forget his race with Dirty 30.

I've heard many commentators point out, that where there's a long run, there's a good block by a WR. With small WR's like Santana and ARE out thtere, we just might not be getting those blocks. If we can get DT and Malcolm on the field a bit more regularly, it might effect our running game in a positive way.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

From PFT: TEXANS HIRE FRANK BUSH AS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR

I like Jerry Gray as a coach. This is good news for the skins. Hopefully the Skins will find some way to Gray around for a few more years.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

The favortism needs to stop. The coaches need to let these young kids play once the OTAs start and the whole preseason on the offensive and defensive lines.

They know what the old veterans can do which ain't much .

What I don't understand is how they draft guys but are afraid to let them play I mean evey other team in the league makes a commitment to younger guys why can't the Skins?

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop |

I don't know how true this next statement is but it SEEMS to me that most team start their first rounders and maybe the 2nd's. Most of the third and so on and so forth rounders backup for a little while. My perception could be wrong but it makes sense to me. Later round picks aren't GENERALLY NFL ready. They take a little time to get in the right frame of mind so to speak. BUT IF a later rounder seems to be a quick study or is that much more talented than the current starter then PUT HIM IN. (Sorry for the rampant use of caps.)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I've heard many commentators point out, that where there's a long run, there's a good block by a WR. With small WR's like Santana and ARE out thtere, we just might not be getting those blocks. If we can get DT and Malcolm on the field a bit more regularly, it might effect our running game in a positive way.

Posted by: kost52 | January 13, 2009 9:55 PM |

Good point.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

kost

The PFW analysis notwithstanding, it's really going to take 2-3 years for the Skins to rebuild themselves in the trenches.

Plain and simple: they ain't got the draft picks and the only FA's they attract are older guys looking a paycheck and not a ring.

This year, the picks should go to the o-line: a rt, a lg/c, a dt, a wlb/rg--- if not in that order, at least in some capacity.

This Skins right now are dealing with the massively poor decisions made during the Spurrier era when ex-Gators and trades substitued for common sense.

Go into espn.com/draft history and look at the years 2002-2003. Most of the free agent picks folks want now were taken then.

With only 4 picks this season and many of last year's picks being labeled busts (except Horton), things might be pretty long and sad in Skins land for a while.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

With only 4 picks this season and many of last year's picks being labeled busts (except Horton), things might be pretty long and sad in Skins land for a while.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 10:10 PM |

I still say it's really early to call any 2nd and later round choices busts.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone ever thought that Gibbs left b/c he didn't want to bring in Saunders and the Danny forced the issue to change the offense?????? That never was Gibbs way/style.

So much so that Gibbs said enough is enough, but is sooooooo CLASSY and LCVES the ReDsKiNs soooo much that he didn't want the fans to go crazy. Think about it. Gibbs always loved this organization and knew it would've been a PR nightmare for this organization of EPIC proportions???

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | January 13, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

kost

The PFW analysis notwithstanding, it's really going to take 2-3 years for the Skins to rebuild themselves in the trenches.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2009 10:10 PM |

I agree with this statement. I believe a lineman should be chosen every year at some level just to keep the lines fresh.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

And yet Saunders is gone anyway.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

FROM PFT
Posted by Aaron Wilson on January 13, 2009, 9:42 p.m
TEXANS HIRE FRANK BUSH AS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR
Posted by Aaron Wilson on January 13, 2009, 9:42 p.m.

The Houston Texans announced today that senior defensive assistant Frank Bush was promoted to defensive coordinator, a development that follows Richard Smith being fired after the season.

Bush, 46, was the lone candidate to interview for the job after the Texans’ request to interview Washington Redskins assistant Jerry Gray was denied last week. Texans beat writer John McClain referenced the league rule that states NFL teams are within their rights to deny permission for an assistant under contract unless the interview is for a head-coaching position.

McClain predicts that Kansas City Chiefs secondary coach David Gibbs, the son of assistant head coach/offense Alex Gibbs, could be hired as the new secondary coach. Gibbs interviewed for the job Monday.

A former Houston Oilers all-rookie linebacker whose career was ended prematurely by a congenital spinal defect, Bush has worked in the NFL for 24 years as a player, scout and assistant coach.
++++

I did not know the Skins blocked Gray from interviewing?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

++++Well, if Vinny had been picking first or second every year, he would have done better than Millen....

Posted by: talent_evaluator+++


I'm not going to defend Millen's drafting skills and only the Truly Misguided would defend Vinny's. So let's not get in a knock down drag out over who is the shortest of Snow White's seven dwarfs.

At least I've made the positive contribution of suggesting Vinny not be poleaxed, but be transferred over to running Johnny Rockets. It's a hamburger joint, and with Vinny's demonstrated skills at evaluating, he'll probably draft Creamed Kale and Tufu if he ran the dump. But he'd be out of our hair.

Posted by: TheCork | January 13, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Cork,
Agreed. I think I would actually buy a Johnny Rockets burger if Snyder did that.

"At least I've made the positive contribution of suggesting Vinny not be poleaxed, but be transferred over to running Johnny Rockets. It's a hamburger joint, and with Vinny's demonstrated skills at evaluating, he'll probably draft Creamed Kale and Tufu if he ran the dump. But he'd be out of our hair."

Posted by: TheCork | January 13, 2009 10:57 PM

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 13, 2009 11:12 PM | Report abuse

From Redskins.com, 1/12/2009...
"Forgive Carlos Rogers if he takes an extended vacation this offseason.
"Since October 2007, when he suffered a knee ligament injury, Rogers has been constantly rehabbing his knee.
"Sure, he worked his way back into the lineup and re-emerged as a top-level cornerback. But he also had to spend hours making sure his knee was healthy each and every week.

I had postulated this recently -- that Blache was nursing him across the finish line. This is as close to confirmation as I'm likely to get.
All of which doesn't stop the trade talk, but it does tend to make me think that the team isn't actively trying to get rid of him. I don't think there's much chance that we'll get adequate value from a trade; I'd be worried if the team thought they had to move him at any price.

Posted by: daggar | January 13, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

From ProFootball Weekly-

Washington's Top 3 Draft Needs -

Washington Redskins

DL — This team needs a major infusion of talent here, likely with multiple bodies. The Redskins haven’t drafted a defensive lineman higher than the fifth round since 1997. DEs Jason Taylor and Phillip Daniels and DT Cornelius Griffin are on the back ends of their careers and possible salary-cap casualties.

OLB — All three LB spots could use some help, but there’s more of a priority outside. Marcus Washington is hurt too often and might not be brought back; Rocky McIntosh has worn down and hasn’t made a lot of plays.

OL — Stephon Heyer might never turn into a quality starter, and Chad Rinehart probably projects to left guard, so the focus could be at tackle. Aging OTs Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen need to be replaced at some point, and so do OGs Randy Thomas and Pete Kendall.


At last it seems that someone is on target with the team needs.

Posted by: kost52

As for 'someone' being on target, I wrote the Skins should draft 4OL, 2DL, 2LB and 1 WR or DB in the 2008 draft. Seems I was on target.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 14, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

I'd part ways with Taylor and Washington; maybe even Griff, but might try to squeeze another year out of him and Springs. Keep Hall and Rogers to hold a deep secondary with Springs and Smoot. Haynesworth, Suggs, Lewis, Peppers and Gross, are guaranteed out of our league cap-wise. I'd be suprised if SD lets go of Sproles. I'd go hard after Dansby as the #1 FA target, seeing as that will be the greatest need on defence along with Hall. Evans did a good job this year and with Daniels returning (??) there are too many other needs to address this off-season so the DE position will have to wait until next year. Vinny says we'll "see alot more of Rob Jackson next year", so there we go. I'm not crazy about all these DE/LB hybrids expected to go in the first rd to go there with #13. Great college players, but too small as DE's against the run to suit the Skins needs at this point. Offences were able to run right at Carter, and having this size of a DE on both ends of the line as we did with Taylor proved to be a weakness. Converting one of them to full-time LB is a possibility, but the true need is an OT to replace Jansen. Switching to a 3-4 will require a massive personnel overhaul and there is no way Blache is interested in that at this stage of his career. Going for a LB at 13 does nothing for the offence (don't even talk about taking a MLB or safety here) and one of the reasons the defence collapsed in fourth quarters this year is because the o-line couldn't give our defence a rest. Tyson Jackson is not the playmaker we need and reaching for him will be a mistake. I saw him in one game and he was nowhere near the football. Trading out of 13 means it is unlikey we'll get an OT that can start this year and that is the only way to get this team rolling. I'd also try to land an affordable FA guard or two who can stick around for 2-3 years and be reliable starters. I don't have confidence going into next year with Jansen, Thomas and Kendall as starters. Rhino gets a shot depending on how free agency goes, Heyer Jansen and Thomas are the back-ups.

Posted by: stevemck3 | January 14, 2009 12:28 AM | Report abuse

i think you got something there clegg...with the gibbs and saunders conspiracy theory. it makes sense now more than ever. saunders seems like a one of vinny's genius moves/ hire. i don't think gibbs would have ever hired saunders on his own.

Posted by: dealer1 | January 14, 2009 1:22 AM | Report abuse

don't forget another one of vinny's genius move was to try to defame gregg williams by saying that he didn't like gibbs. damn this organization sucks!

Posted by: dealer1 | January 14, 2009 1:25 AM | Report abuse

This is football not rocket science! !st we clear cap room for free agents DUH! Cut Taylor, Washington, and trade Rodgers for 2nd round pick. Now we have 5 picks 1,2,3,5,6 I believe.We all agree that if we had a better OL and a Better pass rush we would be really really good.Now with all the free money that we have because of cuts and we didnt sign anyone last year. We need to grab Haynesworth first! Wow, then Suggs or his teammate! Then with the later rounds add more depth on DL!!! Sign D. Hall and if there is enough left over lets go for the jugular and sign T.J. H. from Cincy. Now are you telling me that we wouldnt have the best D front with backer and lineman in the NFL! If not we would be damn close! Oh did I forget we have the best secondary already, thats the truth. EXAMPLE number 4 D with no pass rush at all! Now with the draft at 13 best OL at that pick. Heyer, Rienheart, And the # 13 guy with are returning guys we have a GREAT OL! Yes Great! Starters Pro bowl left tackle back. Reinheart or 1round at left guard ,Let Kendell go to although I like him but we need to save money there. Rabach at center. Thomas or 2nd round draft pick at right guard. Heyer at right tackle. Jenson, Fabini, and a draft pick should have plenty of depth at OL. Now with the 3rd rounder draft another OL or DL for depth. Unless we can find a great breakaway back! Then with the last two picks of draft get More depth at line. Now with Campbell in year two. Moss, Houzmanzada, EL, Thomas, Kelly, and trash, come on plenty of talent at WR. Davis and pro bowl Cooley at tight end. Portis, betts, and draft pick at RB. Thats a hell of an Offense! If Campbell strugles put Colt in and see what he can do. I think JC is really good if you give him time, so I dont see that option happening. With Haynesworth and Suggs now on D. Come one we would be 12-4 and Superbowls champs. Please send this to Vinny and Dan!

Posted by: danedank77 | January 14, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

danedank,
great post really except the ravens aren't going to let Suggs hit the market. Rogers isn't going anywhere if he would you have to draft his replacement anyway. NOWAY can one team sign haynesworth, suggs, and housh with the salary cap

Posted by: thehogs | January 14, 2009 2:02 AM | Report abuse

I'm slowly coming around to a plan. The Skins have 'overpaid talent' in:

Springs
Washington
Taylor
Carter
Griffin
Jansen

These are all guys who get paid a lot, and are either not effective or injury prone.

A couple of other names are in the 'at high risk' category.

Randy Thomas
Pete Kendall
Philip Daniels

I think the Skins pick 4 of these guys and release them. Then go after 2 free agents and use all 4 draft picks to try to replace the other 2 that get released.

As of now, I'd let go of Jansen, Taylor, Washington and Griffin. Not sure if the cap works with that, but its what I'd try. I'd draft 2 LB and 2 OT and try to sign 1 DE and 1 DT in free agency.

Then I'd hope the rest stay healthy or improve their play.

2009 is going to be a tough year no matter what.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 14, 2009 3:19 AM | Report abuse

zca,

I will agree with your cuts if you replace Jansen with Springs. I don't want to keep jnasen because I think he can still start, but he will cost more to cut then to keep. Cutting Springs will free up money 2mil I believe.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 14, 2009 6:34 AM | Report abuse

danedank you don't make much sense. You say we have one of the best secondaries in the league yet you want to trade Rogers for a 2nd rounder and MAYBE resign Hall? Won't have close to the best then.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 14, 2009 7:38 AM | Report abuse

Please send this to Vinny and Dan!

Posted by: danedank77 | January 14, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

I think you are "Dan".

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 14, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Please send this to Vinny and Dan!

Posted by: danedank77 | January 14, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Uh... danedank, I think you are "Dan".

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 14, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Don't sign Haynesworth!!! He reminds me too much of Dana Stubblefield. Once he gets his money, he will get lazy.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 14, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

The lines are the foundation of any team and they are in shambles. It was obvious to me going back to the Seattle playoff game under Gibbs that the o-line had problems. And what does the front office do? Draft two wide receivers a tightend a punter and a qb. Sounds like genius to me!

Posted by: jmy1 | January 14, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

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