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Position Battle: Backup QB

Why do I have the feeling this battle might inflame more fan passion than any other? Well, perhaps it was because Colt Brennan may have generated more buzz than any player in the NFL who never came close to getting a snap last year.

The rookie, inactive as the emergency third QB all of last season, flashed a few things in preseason and by August the cries from fans for him to unseat not only backup Todd Collins, but starter Jason Campbell as well, made for one of the summer's most interesting sideshows. To me, rushing Brennan in any manner made no sense then and still doesn't, but he will certainly get more time to show his stuff in preseason games this summer and could push Collins.

Brennan has a few things to overcome, for sure. His size is hardly ideal -- there's little he can do about that -- and there have been concerns about his arm strength. He amassed pinball-like numbers in college in a spread system that rarely translates to big-league success. He may never project to anything more than a capable backup, but certainly merits a chance. This will be the first camp in which he will start that process.

A year ago he was coming off hip surgery, was just learning the system and had plenty to adapt to. There was no reason to overwhelm him, and with Collins signed to a healthy contract to back up Campbell, there was no rush. This summer, I expect a much more open competition between Brennan and Collins, who is nearing the end of his career.

Brennan should get more of a shot to work with NFL-caliber players, but that also means he will be working against legitimate defensive players, and that's where some of his shortcomings could be exposed. He may not have the mechanics of a prototypical NFL quarterback, but he has plenty of moxie and playmaking instincts that might carry him at this level.

Collins should look better as well, now that he is a year removed from the Al Saunders cocoon and more fully versed in this offense. I wasn't much impressed with Collins in practice and preseason games last year, but he should be sharper. This guy is a survivor and he'll know that his future is riding on showing that he is the best option behind Campbell whether it's in a pinch or for an extended period of time. Collins is smart and has the quick release that coaches of the West Coast offense like, but he lacks Brennan's athleticism and, of course, youth.

This could be a pretty interesting camp subplot. I can envision a scenario similar to what took place a few years back between Campbell and Collins, when Mark Brunell was the starter. Collins could wind up as essentially the No. 2 on game day, since he is an expert at preparing for an opponent despite getting almost no reps and pulling off a professional outing.

And I can envision Brennan getting his shot. Should Campbell be out for a period of time, Brennan could have a week or more to focus on a scaled-back playbook and get ready to play, with full reps.

Ultimately, when you look at Collins's contract, the Skins really bought themselves three years with which to figure out what Brennan's true upside can be and so, again, I believe there is no huge rush to throw the kid into the fire. They need him to be backup ready by 2010.

By Jason La Canfora  |  March 26, 2009; 11:22 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: WR Thomas Looks to Turn It Around

Comments

Not about the FIRST string QB?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Not about the THIRD string QB

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

First - I just want to see how anyone can possibly criticize this update from Jason - gives both sides of the Colt issue, explains why he didn't see any time last year, and what the logical progression of his status will be this year.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 26, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Wait a SECOND

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

mixed up my comments. I plead the FIFTH

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Skins Fans!
Why is JLC telling us what we already know.
Campbell as starter, Collins as back up and Colt as bench warmer till 2010, so what is the news?
Hail!

Posted by: abxinc | March 26, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Colt's mechanics are not a problem. He gets ride of the ball quickly with that motion. The only risk, it comes out low so there might be more tipped balls.

Colt's issues are the same as any other young QB. Reading the defense, making good choices, having a pocket presence, being consistently accurate, keeping his poise, etc. The bit that I saw of Colt, he was hit and miss on these items.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

IMHO it depends on what you can get for Campbell...if you can get a 1st and a 3rd, if you can get a starting quality guard and a 2nd, or a 2nd 3rd plus a late round pick I say yes. ...

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 10:50 AM

I don't understand how people can watch Campbell and be dissatisfied with HIS performance. ...

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:01 AM

Its pretty simple, never throwing deep, never taking chances, always throwing only to a guy standing wide open after his break, rarely leading the reserve helping create YAC, holding the ball too long, slow delivery and overall mediocre record and a 16 point a game offense.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 11:05 AM

This is a bit cornfusing. A post speculating about getting 1st round and 3rd round picks in a trade for JC, which would be elite QB type ransom, and then a follow up post with a critique of the dude which if true makes it unlikely you'd even get dirt in exchange for him.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 26, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I bet this thread is already 100 posts long over at ExtremeSkins.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 26, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Um (channeling Zebra), picking up the challenge flag. Challenge is upheld, ruling the field reversed, MistaMoe does not lose a timeout.

The new WaPoRI software upgrade, however, gets a stern glowering from the officiating crew.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

4th, I got you beat ... what is the joke?

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 11:42 AM

The always lurking 4-12 took my Vinny has options comment and asked if one of his options was to resign (quit). I thought he meant to re-sign MWash.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Got to agree with this assessment for the most part.

If Campbell is out for an extended period of time, I wouldn't mind seeing what Brennan can do. Collins is just not a future option at the position. If the Skins have a chance to find out if Brennan is, then I hope they take it.

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 26, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

This is a bit cornfusing. A post speculating about getting 1st round and 3rd round picks in a trade for JC, which would be elite QB type ransom, and then a follow up post with a critique of the dude which if true makes it unlikely you'd even get dirt in exchange for him.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 26, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

well, I think the Lions, Bears, 49ers, Bucs, Rams, Vikings (not so much now with Sage), Jets, and Panthers would all have legit interest if we shopped him. I don't think he's worth anything more than a 3rd at best, but Roy Williams got like 3 or 4 picks so who knows what you could get in a bidding war. The question would also become if Sanchez is there at 13 what would all those same teams give for the 13th pick and which one is the better deal. Personally, I'm in the category that after 3 years now JC has proven he is an average NFL QB. He's not terrible by any means and there are QBs that are worse starting in the league. But he's not great either, and he's not good enough to raise the level of the WRs he plays with like some of the top level QBs. Given the Skins utter inability to find an elite receiver for the better part of a decade maybe the approach needs to be taking a shot at finding an elite QB. I watched Sanchez play a lot on TV and live when he came to Cville to play the Hoos, the guy is for real and IMHO would be an upgrade in fairly short order over JC.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

4th, sween, as a matter of course I depher to the Dauphine on all matters editorial, but I would prepher that the construction "re-sign" be used when a person signs a new contract with the same company, and "resign" used when a person leaves a company by choice. Otherwise I get confused, especially by the micro-headlines on news sites like "Smith Resigns". But again, Cindy knows best.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I just want to see how anyone can possibly criticize this update from Jason - gives both sides of the Colt issue, explains why he didn't see any time last year, and what the logical progression of his status will be this year.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 26, 2009 11:34 AM


I'll try....

No mention of us drafting Sanchez as a select few of crazies have been discussing.

He really didn't see the practices. Just warm ups and the 1st few drills.

He scouts Soccer/Baseball/and Hockey better than football. He does better when reporting with sources as his backdrop (why else would he be dubbed the Sourcerer?)

Height? No one is complainging about Dree Brees' height.

(OK, I did that just because you ask'd)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I don't want to see Colt on the field until he works out an agreement to swap numbers with Mike Sellers.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

...and of course until Billy D. Williams is brought on as the PA announcer.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

etrod,

Switch with Sellers (45)?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"pretty simple, {Jason Campbell] never throwing deep, never taking chances, always throwing only to a guy standing wide open after his break, rarely leading the reserve helping create YAC, holding the ball too long, slow delivery and overall mediocre record and a 16 point a game offense.Posted by: zjfr2"
"This is a bit cornfusing. A post speculating about getting 1st round and 3rd round picks in a trade for JC, which would be elite QB type ransom, and then a follow up post with a critique of the dude which if true makes it unlikely you'd even get dirt in exchange for him."

It's not just confusing, it's silly.

Posted by: AntonChigurh

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

...and of course until Billy D. Williams is brought on as the PA announcer.

Posted by: Original_etrod

Now that would be a brilliant signing

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell threw 13 touchdowns in 16 games. That just stinks.

Posted by: jmpalomo | March 26, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

shot in the dark, matthewvickers:

You are under age 30?

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm fine with Collins as backup QB for one more season. Next year, the Skins should be able to promote Brennan, cut Collins, and draft a #3 QB.

Zorn said it took Matt Hasselbeck three years to master his offense. I don't see either of them truly completing with Campbell for the #1 spot, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that Brennan could win the #2 spot this year.

What does confuse me is why the backup QB is not used as the holder during field goals... Why is that job left for punters? It puts the Skins at a disadvantage if the field goal is busted and virtually eliminates any chance for a fake field goal attempts to succeed. In addition, the coaches implied that Suisham's lack of long distance accuracy was due to poor holding by Plackemier [BTW -- I'm not convinced that was the reason -- rather it appeared to be the result of poor footwork].

Posted by: siris | March 26, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

If something happens to Campbell during the season, it will be Collins unless the season is a lost cause. Zorn and Vinny need this team to win this year.

Danny may like how Vinny makes him feel, but Vinny is not a lock to return in 2010 without success in 2009. Too many big name HC out there in 2010 ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell threw 13 touchdowns in 16 games. That just stinks.

Posted by: jmpalomo | March 26, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Thank you....

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

To not know the connection, you would have to be under 25. I'm under 30 and still remember those commercials......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell threw 13 touchdowns in 16 games. That just stinks.
Posted by: jmpalomo | March 26, 2009 12:05 PM"

Yeah, it smells like a combination of bad play calling, deteriorated Oline and a lack of receiving threats...

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Saints Add Another Safety
Posted by Mike Florio on March 26, 2009, 11:56 a.m.
A week or so after signing free agent Darren Sharper, the Saints are shoring up their last line of defense with another veteran safety.

According to Adam Caplan of Scout.com, the Saints have agreed to terms with Pierson Prioleau.

Prioleau will serve as a backup to Sharper and Roman Harper.

The move reunites Prioleau with defensive coordinator Gregg Williams; they have worked together in Jacksonville, Washington, and Buffalo.

In ten NFL seasons, Prioleau has played primarily as a reserve. In 2002, however, he was a 16-game starter for the Bills. And he began the 2006 season as a starting safety with the Redskins, but suffered a torn ACL on the opening kickoff of the team’s Week One game.

In Jacksonville last season, Prioleau appeared in 16 games, starting once

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

If Brennan is decent at all, Zorn will see that. Colt has major flaws - the guy was barely drafted.
He showed enough in preseason last year to stick around as a #3, that's it.

As for Campbell - why would you trade him for picks? Are you nuts? Unless you're getting Cutler or an upgrade, that's just stupid. If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can win super bowls, then Campbell can as well if he has a better team around him.

At least wait until you have a good team around him to prove he's the weak link.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

True, 4th, but you are wise beyond your years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pK5HmuCMBM

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Colt's a talented QB with several flaws that could (not necessarily will, but could) prove fatal to an NFL starter's career. You all have pointed them out. There are also examples of QBs with the same flaws who've succeeded.

My take:
Is Colt a better QB than Todd Collins?
No. But Collins is way too old to be anybody's future. And he doesn't fit the Zorn offense very well. He's too upright, not mobile enough, and besides, he despises all the dumb Phil Jackson style exercises that Zorn inflicts on his QBs.

Is Brennan a better fit for Zorn's offense? Sure. Not the offense the Skins ran last year, but the real Seattle-style Jim Zorn short-passing offense that he sees in his dreams. That's why Colt was drafted. Also, they didn't spend much on him.

Is Colt Brennan the future of the Redskins?
Who knows for sure? Stranger things have happened. But if he is, there are a lot of NFL scouts and GMs who'll be eating their hats. Because hardly anybody thinks the guy is very good.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Pearson Prioleau just signed with the Saints, does he have dirty pics of GG?

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell threw 13 touchdowns in 16 games. That just stinks.

Posted by: jmpalomo

Jason Campbell threw just 6 picks in 16 games. That is just outstanding.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"To not know the connection, you would have to be under 25. I'm under 30 and still remember those commercials......"

Commercials? I thought etrod was referring to one of my favorite college songs and cheap beverages.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 26, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, it smells like a combination of bad play calling, deteriorated Oline and a lack of receiving threats...

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

or more excuses for a guy that through half the season had the leagues leading rusher, a pro bowl tight end and a top 10 receiver. There's guys doing more with less.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Gack! What? Nate, did we miss a hyphen on "re-sign" somewhere? We have to be very careful with that, as well as watching where the automatic hyphenation falls on "mishit."

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 26, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Well I've been compromised. Indeed, I am under the age of 25; just a whipper-snapper!
Sorry...

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pK5HmuCMBM


haha, nice. I guess I'm proof you don't need to have seen that commercial to get the connection though.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 26, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

hmmmm, apparently Cindy needs to approve my version or mis-hit ... while her version went through. Its good to be the editor ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

No worries, Matthew, just watch the link I posted and feel the love.

I can just picture Colt throwing a TD pass and Billy Dee comes over the PA with "Works every time."

Beautiful.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

"or more excuses for a guy that through half the season had the leagues leading rusher, a pro bowl tight end and a top 10 receiver. There's guys doing more with less.....
Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:14 PM"

Just calling it like I see it. Zorn's offense was pretty predictable in the second half of the season. No?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

hyphe-NateinthePDX

Sounds like something you'd see on Wheel of Fortune

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

But backup to whom?

That's the $64,000 question.

Is Jason Campbell going to be the starter?

The Redskins have rolled the dice on other players like Dockery, Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot - not signing them a year away from free agency and then seeing their price demands rise with solid performances in their contract years.

If Campbell has a solid year the Redskins are going to end up paying him a boatload more money than they would otherwise have had to.

I still don't see how the front office and staff are still so undecided about Campbell after this amount of time.

McDaniels was in Denver for a week and he was already trying to trade for Matt Cassel and deal off Jay Cutler.

Not that it turned out so well for Denver, but McDaniels must have seen something about Cutler's performances that he didn't like as a former OC.

Posted by: leopard09 | March 26, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Campbell bashing... The guy is middle of the pack in stats. YPA and TD% are poor - no doubt about it. But the guy did get sacked 38 times last year, most of which were in the 2nd half of the season, the old o-line got BEAT DOWN late in the year.

BUT - among QBs with at least 150 attempts, he had by far the lowest INT% and finished the year with a 62.3 completion percentage.

Not bad. There may be 10-15 better QB's in teh league, but a rookie won't be an upgrade, and neither will collins or brennan.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

There's an important hamster whose knowledge is thourough on this topic that's missing........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Open up the competition. It's just that simple. Nothing Campbell did last year warrants his uncontested starting position. Colt brings moxy and playmaking ability to the table; Collins, experience, quick release and smarts. (Also, I might point up, the best we looked in the last FIVE YEARS was with Collins at the helm.) I just don't get it. The team has expressed zero long-term interest in keeping Campbell. Why on earth continue to guarantee the starting slot to him? Watch--we'll start the season with Campbell. He'll be his usual medicore self, get us out to a 4-4 start, last place in the NFCE. He'll be replaced by Collins or Colt, but we'll be too in the hole to make anything out of our season. Viola, another wasted year for no reason whatsover.

Posted by: squid1 | March 26, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

A lot of you all miss the point with JC. You can't just throw deep for the sake of throwing deep. It takes a combination of good running game, a good OL, a good #2 WR, a good QB, and a good play call.

Jaws did a great breakdown of the 'Skins problems on ESPN one time. He showed a number of plays from the coach camera (from the endzone, all 11 players). All of them were plays where the 'Skins had called a deep pass. In most of them, the ball never got out of JC's hand because there was a breakdown in the OLine or the blitz pick-up before the WR even made his break or turned around. On other occasions, the WR just ran the wrong route. It's not all JC.

Posted by: jwlemons | March 26, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

4-4 isn't really a hole.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

rookie won't be an upgrade, and neither will collins or brennan.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Matt Ryan - 3440 yds, 16 tds, avg 7.9 per attempt, 11 picks, rating 87.7

Campbell - 3245 yds, 13 TDs, 6 picks, avg 6.4 per attemps, rating 84.3

oh yeah, at the Falcons won 11 games and went to the playoffs in a more competitive division than ours after an abysmal 07 where they were expected to be an absolute train wreck. So don't say automatically a rookie can't be better.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Well I've been compromised. Indeed, I am under the age of 25; just a whipper-snapper!
Sorry...

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 12:15 PM

It's ok.

You get a pass if you are a Redskin fan and too young too remember them winning the SB. I remember 2 of them (though one is very vague)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

What can you do when the pass protection only gives you two seconds to throw the ball? Screens and quick slants -- that's it... The excellent defenses that the Skins played at the end of the season consistently stuffed the box and never gave Campbell time to throw down field.

Posted by: siris | March 26, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Did the Falcons play most of their games against top 10 defenses and loose both starting OTs to injury?

We can only imagine what Ryan's stats would have looked like in that situation...

Posted by: siris | March 26, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Viola, another wasted year for no reason whatsover.

Posted by: squid1

If 2009 is a wasted year (and I'm thinking this team is NOT much improved from last year), it won't be because of Campbell. It will be because of holes at key positions and depth problems associated with injuries.

Which is what happened in 2008.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

4th and etrod are wise beyond their beers.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

samson

'...Is Brennan a better fit for Zorn's offense? Not the offense the Skins ran last year, but the real Seattle-style Jim Zorn short-passing offense that he sees in his dreams. That's why Colt was drafted....'


You may be on to something.

Colt may not have Campbell's height or cannon arm, but what I saw in the preseason games he played in was a guy who processed reads faster--meaning he would benefit in a quick-read, short passing attack offense.

Maybe that's why Campbell hasn't been offered n extension: Zorn would rather groom Colt into the spot over a two-three period than go with a guy another coach wanted.

Samson, you may have opened my eyes abit.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 26, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

4th, are you talking about Sports Guru or learnedhand?

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

You know we will be much improved if the only real changes are being made to the #4 Defense.

With a strengthend TO machine defense, and another year in the spread, and another year development of last year's draft, plus this years #13 and 3rd rounder, and JC17 being in a contract year, I think would get us ATLEAST to the NFC Championship (though I have been predicting a SB victory prior to the start of the season for the past 15 years)........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a fan of Collins. He was a good fit for Al Saunders' timing based passing attack because it forced him to get rid of the ball - either to one of three receivers, or to the sideline if no one was available. The left coast offense does not employ timing routes and you could see Collins' long term defeciency creep back into his game last season: he holds onto the ball too long. I am one fan who believes they should dump Collins and figure out a way to get Leftwich on the roster. Leftwich is from the area, whcih means he might take a smaller paycheck, and would provide more competition for Campbell.

As for Colt Brennan, only time will tell if he is the real deal or not. We should see the effects of Zorn's teaching this preseason, or not, and that will tell us a little more about if he's going to be around or not. He needs to correct some mechanical things like the sidearming and using his arm instead of his body to get the ball down the field. I like the guy's passion. He's a gunslinger who Zorn would have to throttle back at times.

In the draft the Redskins are not going to be in a position to take a big name quarterback, but I could certainly understand if they grabbed someone deemed a developmental prospect in the later rounds. Here's a crazy one for you: sign undrafted free agent Greg Paulus from Duke. Yes, that's the guy that played on Duke's b-ball team and not the football team. This kid came out of high school as Gatorade National High School Football Player of the Year, but decided he wanted to play basketball. He's not going to the NBA. He would be a great developmental prospect.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 26, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

I think Jason Campbell has the emotional maturity and poise to manage a game like some of the long term solid guys in the NFL.

I think Colt Brennan has a criminal record and transferred to Hawaii so he could have a chance to start in a less than competitive conference. Still, I hope he develops and matures.

Relying on the kid any time soon is not a valid answer.

http://www.jimbo.info/weblog/2008/10/09/ChrisCooleyColtBrennan.jpg

Its foolish to talk about anyone other than Jason Campbell unless there is a swap with a proven starter for at least two more years.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I laugh at people who think Brennan and Collins bring so much more to the table as a starter. They're no better than JC. I'm not defending JC's mediocrity, I'm just telling you he's the best option we have for this season. Brennan's moxie and playmaking ability is only good against CFL, Arena and Semi Pro caliber players. Collins had a good 4 game stretch in a system we don't run anymore. His limitations became exposed the more teams saw of him. His experience, quick release, and smarts were sure on display last preseason when he absolutely stunk. You have to stick with JC this season and either draft or sign another QB if he isn't brought back in 2010.

Posted by: moseley_brian | March 26, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"Moxie"? Thanks, JLC, haven't seen that word in a while. That should become a standard here on the Insider. BTW - will any of the Campbell haters appologize and say they were wrong if JC rips of Drew Brees numbers this season? If he does worse than last year, then you can all say "I told you so!"

Posted by: 4skinz | March 26, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 26, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Lots of technical analysis with a tone of knowledge then says sign Greg Paulus.....LOL are you periculum in disguise?

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

dcsween, I'm with you! Campbell does it with Moxie!

Posted by: 4skinz | March 26, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Where have we gotten better from last season?

DT -- a huge improvement
LG -- Dockery a modest improvement over Kendall.
QB -- Campbell is on the upswing
HC -- I'd expect Zorn to be better in year 2

Where have we gotten worse?

CB -- losing Springs, even if it was for only 50% of the games, leaves us worse off. Hall was part of the team last year. Still the strongest unit on the team

LB -- same argument with Marcus as with Springs. A part time talent who had talent.

DE -- Our 2 best DE's our gone. Evans and Taylor. Neither set the bar very high, so we're hopefully not losing too much.

OL -- Everyone is a year older, which isn't good except for Dockery, Heyer and perhaps Chad, if he gets a uni this year.

In each of the areas we've gotten worse, limited depth could play a major role.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"Here's a crazy one for you: sign undrafted free agent Greg Paulus from Duke."

Then Danny Green can become a LB and sack him by shoving his genetalia in his face :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeYLov5fLXA

Why not wait and draft Paulus' brother...I mean he at least chose the right school.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 26, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

will any of the Campbell haters appologize and say they were wrong if JC rips of Drew Brees numbers this season? If he does worse than last year, then you can all say "I told you so!"

Posted by: 4skinz | March 26, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely will, but you're crazy if you think JC approaches Drew Brees' numbers....it will be a cold day in a certain hot environment before he approaches 5000 yds and 34 TDs. I'll apologize if he throws for 3700 yards and 23 TDs but that aint gonna happen either.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"rookie won't be an upgrade, and neither will collins or brennan.Posted by: showell81"
"Matt Ryan - 3440 yds, 16 tds, avg 7.9 per attempt, 11 picks, rating 87.7
Campbell - 3245 yds, 13 TDs, 6 picks, avg 6.4 per attemps, rating 84.3
oh yeah, at the Falcons won 11 games and went to the playoffs in a more competitive division than ours after an abysmal 07 where they were expected to be an absolute train wreck. So don't say automatically a rookie can't be better.Posted by: zjfr2


Please note that he didn't say that. He just said 'rookie won't be an upgrade.' Matt Ryan's not coming out this season.

The question is: would Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, or Josh Freeman be an upgrade, and which would be available when the Skins pick?

The other thing of note is that Ryan, despite his outstanding rookie campaign, didn't come close to breaking 90 on his QB rating. Campbell was at 84.3.

The biggest difference is in the team's record, of course. Atlanta went to the playoffs, where they got handled. Washington didn't. So that must be Jason's fault, right?

You can argue either way. Jason's QB rating was about the same as Jake Delhomme's, whose team went 12-4, and also got handled in the playoffs. Ryan, meanwhile, finished in the same area as Shaun Hill and Seneca Wallace, who played on bad teams.

When we look at a problem, we want to focus on accountability rather than blame. Blame starts with an emotion (anger, frustration) and seeks a target. When you ascribe blame, you feel better. Accountability, on the other hand, starts with objective analysis and moves on to problem-solving.

OK, it's dull. But at the end of the day, you've got a solution.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

what are you talking about? Ryan's rating was 87.7 as I posted which was higher than JC.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"What does confuse me is why the backup QB is not used as the holder during field goals... Why is that job left for punters?"

Posted by: siris | March 26, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse


I'm pretty sure that the reason is so that the backup QB is free to work/focus on what the offense is doing during practice. On the surface, it makes sense that the backup QB would hold. But by using the Punter, the Kicker/Punter can practice holding/kicking together and get many more reps in during practice.

You don't want to take the backup QB away from the offense practice (even if they are just watching) because they are just one play away from being in the game and need to be taking mental reps with the offense.

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 26, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

zj, we get it, you don't like Campbell, give it a rest already would you....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely will, but you're crazy if you think JC approaches Drew Brees' numbers....it will be a cold day in a certain hot environment before he approaches 5000 yds and 34 TDs. I'll apologize if he throws for 3700 yards and 23 TDs but that aint gonna happen either.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:01 PM

I'm not saying he will either - but if he does... 3700 yds and 23 TD's is more in the reasonable range of what he can do, if people (read: kelly, thomas, Oline) step it up a notch (or three or four).

Posted by: 4skinz | March 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

This Moxie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxie

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 1:08 PM

So Colt is full of cream soda? That explains the "short stature"

Posted by: 4skinz | March 26, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

"Matt Ryan - 3440 yds, 16 tds, avg 7.9 per attempt, 11 picks, rating 87.7
Campbell - 3245 yds, 13 TDs, 6 picks, avg 6.4 per attemps, rating 84.3

So - did the quarterback make the difference or were there other parts of the Falcons team that were 4 games better than the Redskins? Becauase these stat lines are almost a push.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 26, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

QB ratings:

Ryan 87
Campbell 84
Roethlisberger 80

Campbell also finished ahead of playoff QBs Collins and Flacco, a fraction of a point behind Delhomme and 2 points behind mcnabb and eli

This despite playing 6 of 16 games versus top 5 defenses (Pitt, Ravens, jintsx2, igglesx2)

Campbell isn't a problem.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

cream soda, malt liquor, whatevs...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2: "what are you talking about? Ryan's rating was 87.7 as I posted which was higher than JC."

I'm saying not a whole lot higher.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

zj, we get it, you don't like Campbell, give it a rest already would you....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

nobody was talking to you, and you and the other Campbell defenders/excusers/hopers can just as easily give it a rest as well cause all of the evidence to date is on my side.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

And I am delighted at the prospect of Collins expertly holding the maroon and black clipboard this fall, for Colt alertly standing right next to him learning how it's done, and for neither of them seeing the field this season.

Campbell, Campbell, Campbell. I say unto you again, yea verily, Jason Aloysius Campbell.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

That's why this is such a GREAT topic - (Is Campbell the problem) - if you want evidence - There is NO objective statistical analysis that can say that Campbell is the problem with this team. It's only how you feel watching him - and I admit - one can feel like he's just another journeyman QB on many snaps. But statistically - his stats have improved every year, he has only played for part of 2 seasons and one full season - so 2009 should be the make or break year.

But there is not a lot of evidence that he is going to be bad, just like there's not a lot of evidence that he is going to be great.

Jury's still out.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 26, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

right, you're a dbag, I forgot...nevermind.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 26, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I am not and have not said he's bad. I am saying he's not proven that he's good either. He's average in every statistical category including wins except TDs where he is way below average, avg. completion ydg. 6.4 below average, and INTs where he was well above average. (although when you are avging 6.4 yds a completion its a little easier not to throw picks) His defenders keep saying wait and see, I after 4 years say for the most part he is what he is and he may improve some and he may regress some too but IMHO he isn't going to take a major leap and become a top 10 QB. Since we seem incapable of finding talented wideouts IMHO we need to find an elite QB, certainly not easy, but we could be mediocre for 5 more years waiting to surround JC with enough talent and depth to make us a winner, and that is assuming that all of a sudden our idiotic FO figured out how to do that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

right, you're a dbag, I forgot...nevermind.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Real nice, I'm not entitled to my opinion? Especially when its well supported by the facts not your wait and see dreamworld where all Redskins progress to Pro Bowlers and the Lombardi trophies flow like candy.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

dude, just shut up.....zip it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

4th, are you talking about Sports Guru or learnedhand?

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 12:45 P

The prior. The latter isn't as harsh.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

dude, just shut up.....zip it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Ahhh, the strong argument of one who is out of evidence, logic, and intelligence.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2, what evidence? Most of the arguments against JC read like... Campbell sucks and doesnt throw deep. There is not much of a tangible argument in that logic.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

From David Elfin of the Times.

"Just ran into Clinton Portis. When I teased CP about he and his fellow running backs Ladell Betts and Rock Cartwright being here for all the offseason workouts while the receivers were AWOL, he said the wideouts had returned except for starters Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El.

And lo and behold a few minutes later, who should appear but Devin Thomas, who unlike fellow second-round receiver Malcolm Kelly (knee surgery in January) is fully cleared to participate in the offseason program. Kelly has been on hand of late, too, but isn't in Ashburn today.

Thomas said he wasn't at the Park for the first few days last week because he was working at Michigan State and helping his former teammates get ready for their Pro Day when they show off their skills for NFL scouts. Thomas also predicted that he'll be away in early April because his Spartans will be playing in the Final Four in Detroit.

- David Elfin"

Jason Campbell, regardless of facts or opinions, will be the starting QB in 2009. So why not be the least bit supportive.

Put your shades on, next season is going to be bright.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

The JC17-haters are products of the Snyder era. They're so used to changing QBs every few years they can't handle the thought of a talented young QB getting 2 years under the coach who schooled Hasselbeck into a Pro-Bowler.

They're all looking to the next Danny Wuerffel, Shane Matthews or Pat Ramsey flavor of the day.

JC17 has gotten better every year--and was never bad. But they're used to handing off good players who *are drafted here* and *get developed here*, so they can win with other teams. Yeah, let's draft another QB and start the cycle again.

It's called the Stockholm Syndrome. At least Danny and Vinny have learned from their mistakes, more than some fans apparently.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

rookie won't be an upgrade, and neither will collins or brennan.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Matt Ryan - 3440 yds, 16 tds, avg 7.9 per attempt, 11 picks, rating 87.7

Campbell - 3245 yds, 13 TDs, 6 picks, avg 6.4 per attemps, rating 84.3

oh yeah, at the Falcons won 11 games and went to the playoffs in a more competitive division than ours after an abysmal 07 where they were expected to be an absolute train wreck. So don't say automatically a rookie can't be better.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Matt Ryan was also only sacked 17 times all season.

Jason Campbell was sacked 38 times.

So despite being sacked 21 more times Jason Campbell threw for only 195 less yards and 3 less TD's. Oh, BTW, he threw 5 FEWER interceptions on the year AND had a BETTER completion percentage.

Looks like you stuck your foot in your mouth there sport.

Posted by: ecale25 | March 26, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

sween brought it out of me...

flag on the play; on the entire blog... i think we can all get over ourselves enough to play nice? that is why I stopped throwing flags in the first place... replay blog

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

2 posts here regarding JC hit the nail right on the head:

[1] A lot of you all miss the point with JC. You can't just throw deep for the sake of throwing deep. It takes a combination of good running game, a good OL, a good #2 WR, a good QB, and a good play call.

Jaws did a great breakdown of the 'Skins problems on ESPN one time. He showed a number of plays from the coach camera (from the endzone, all 11 players). All of them were plays where the 'Skins had called a deep pass. In most of them, the ball never got out of JC's hand because there was a breakdown in the OLine or the blitz pick-up before the WR even made his break or turned around. On other occasions, the WR just ran the wrong route. It's not all JC.

Posted by: jwlemons | March 26, 2009 12:32 PM

[2] QB ratings:

Ryan 87
Campbell 84
Roethlisberger 80

Campbell also finished ahead of playoff QBs Collins and Flacco, a fraction of a point behind Delhomme and 2 points behind mcnabb and eli

This despite playing 6 of 16 games versus top 5 defenses (Pitt, Ravens, jintsx2, igglesx2)

Campbell isn't a problem.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 1:15 PM

______________________________

Strengthen that O-line (incl'ng depth) and everything will work... The Skins have many good skill players, but even mediocre ones will look like stars if there is strong pass protection and run blocking.

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Relax zj. If Campbell stinks as much as you think he does, you will only have to see him play in 16 more games at most. The Ryan and JC stats are about the same, not sure what you are arguing about.

I hate Greg Paulus, typical annoying Duke player and am glad he has been relegated to the bench for Nolan Smith.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 26, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2, what evidence? Most of the arguments against JC read like... Campbell sucks and doesnt throw deep. There is not much of a tangible argument in that logic.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

13 TDs in 16 games in 08
6.4 avg completion yardage 08
15 W 26 L as a starter (ommiting the Bears start that he was injured in and TC came in and won)

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

BTW, i love KJJ's name.... kudos

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

By zjfr2's logic, CPortis sucks because he only got 9 TDs on 340+ carries. All his fault, right? The O-line couldn't possibly play a role, that's just an excuse... right?

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is that the skins are giving Campbell the reigns again this year. Unless there is an unforeseen rise in ability to run the offense by either Collins or Brennen, but that would have to mean that there is an “open competition”. I don’t think that there is. So Campbell is the starter. Say what you want about that. Another bottom line is that he is unsigned past the 2009 season, so it LOOKS like the FO is saying that this is his make or break year. IF he plays well/better, they will probably re-sign him. If he flops or gets injured, probably cut loose (or re-signed for way less).

For those of you calling for him NOT to be the starter, have patience. He gets better every year. So some rookies played “better”, he’s in his 4th year already, blah, blah blah. All signs point to the FO and coaches saying that this is it for him; his last chance as it were. Why are you so unhappy with that? Personally, I am not expecting a Super Bowl this year. I can wait two, three, however many I have to. Getting rid of the guy now is just a step backwards, plain and simple (unless you trade for a Peyton Manning), when it is a very good chance that it will be a step forward by keeping him in there.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 26, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Thomas said he wasn't at the Park for the first few days last week because he was working at Michigan State and helping his former teammates get ready for their Pro Day when they show off their skills for NFL scouts. Thomas also predicted that he'll be away in early April because his Spartans will be playing in the Final Four in Detroit.

- David Elfin"

...........

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 1:40


That's what I said the other day.

Are blogs not in the category of putting up retractions and/or corrections to posts that need them?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I still maintain today that while you can point to oline play, cp's lack of long runs, JC's lack of taking chances and CC's lack of TD's the main issue came down to zorn.

He is HC, OC and QBC. On a short time line instituting his first offense. Our first half was good, then once enough tape was out they could lock in on tendencies.

So an oline cant block when the defense knows whats coming. The RB avg per carry goes down when the defense can key on the run and a QB cant throw for TDs and 1sts when he has no time b/c of a well timed rush or knowledge of WR's routes.

CC even said on Elliot in the morning they have two goal line pass plays installed each week. And if they dont get it good in practice it is scrapped.

I expect a better game plan this year, and with an upgraded defense and another year of coaching and play calling and an offense in a better ryhtm, we should hopefully pick up where we should have gone last year.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

woops, that was supposed to be 15w and 20L as starter sorry

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

BTW, i love KJJ's name.... kudos

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I second that

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 26, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Zeebs

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Watch Colt Brennan be the backup this year. I don't know why, but i see him being the starter way before most expect him

Posted by: beede81 | March 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

i may change mine to soul glow (j/k)

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Please let's not start on the Portis is the bellcow vs. Portis is the deadweight argument. We haven't even done the blog calesthenics yet. The pro/con Portis discussion is for the deep depths of the dead part of the offseason.

Right now, we should still be jibba jabbulating about the remaining free agent LBs, OLs, Ps, Ks, and PRs. Plus the college career leading PRs who will be the proverbial late round gems.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Sorry 4th,

In what you said the other day, you forgot to add that, "Thomas also predicted that he'll be away in early April because his Spartans will be playing in the Final Four in Detroit."

Or maybe you didn't?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Zeebs, we have to replay the whole freakin' blog? Sheesh...

Another little message board community I follow recently lost its whole discussion archives to some kind of hack/corruption deal. Total loss. All those hours of reading and commenting, all those brilliant turns of phrase, all those insights and opinions, all those nuggets of knowledge and/or stupidity, gone. The horror... the horror...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 26, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

No apologizes from you needed. I said what I said, because at the time of the post, I thought that info would have been public knowledge if I knew it at the time of the post.

No prob with you reposting, though.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

No nate, no infraction. Should have said resume...

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Why can't we just be patient with JC? Based on what I have seen and heard with Zorn, I think he's committed to JC for now as he should be.

A few years ago, it was CLEAR that Mark Brunell had nothing left and cost us games because he couldn't throw it down the field. JC has won nothing yet, but I think this is his year, despite inferior talent at WR.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 26, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Colt needs to grow back the dreds, maybe get in a few bar fights and get that boyish face looking more manly. Then he will be a great 2nd QB.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Funny, but there are rumors swirling about JCutler going to the CowPies. Out of curiousity, I clicked on some of the fan links (yes, I need a hot shower now). The Pie fans response is very similar to here--some are very hard on Romo, and others hold that Cutler is nothing special and point out that he's 17-20 as a starter.

Ironically, Pie fans are criticizing Romo for his gunslinger mentality (too many interceptions)--just the opposite of what's going on here with JC17.

Why so much love for JCutler anyway? He seems like a whiney prima donna, and he's done NOTHING to prove he's better than either Romo or JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 what makes an elite QB? Where are they? Were the last two Super Bowl winning QBs elite QBs? You don't find elite QBs sitting around doing nothing. He!!, I don't even know if there are any currently in the NFL. The real good ones (Brady, Manning) are good system QBs. They are good in the offensive system that they run (which is why Cassell stepped in and did a great job). Those systems are good from the equipment man to the QB and everyone in between. Elite QBs are the product of good systems. That is why it is called a Football Team. It requires and depends on everyone on the team executing and doing there job - in all aspects - to give the "Team" their best chance at winning. No one person can do it all - not even elite QBs.

Posted by: SPUD2 | March 26, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

"nobody was talking to you, and you and the other Campbell defenders/excusers/hopers can just as easily give it a rest as well cause all of the evidence to date is on my side.Posted by: zjfr2 |"

You must be defining 'evidence' in a whole new way.

The problem isn't that everyone is against you, or pro-Jason Campbell. It's that your arguments have holes in them. People keep pointing these holes out. And you keep ignoring it.


Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Alan,

There is a lot of love for Cutler, because he went to the pro bowl(which means nothing these days), made a few good plays, and the people on tv(Like Skip Bayless) love him. There is also a mentality around the league with the exception of a few places, that the backup or someone else's qb has got to be better than ours. Is any of that justified? Not really,but certain fans including some on this blog would give their right arm or in our case starting qb for him.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I think Campbell will be the same that he has been since he became a starter - he'll show flashes, but won't churn out big numbers on the regular. He'll also show a little improvement as well.

He's middle of the pack, an average, mediocre QB, and you know something?

I'm okay with that.

Campbell doesn't have to be and never will be a Manning or Brady. Super Bowls have been won with marginal to above average QBs, why couldn't the 'skins do the same? All they need to make sure of is that the other positions surrounding Campbell are above average to great.

Wouldn't you agree that of all the 22 poitions on offense and defense; a all-world franchise QB is the most difficult to be had?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 26, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Hmm... any good examples out there of mediocre skill players made to look like superstars by strong O-line play (e.g. Timmy Smith)?

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 26, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Any competition should be open for the starting QB spot between Collins, Brennan and Campbell. But, if Campbell is the starting QB in 09, save your money and stay home. It will be a repeat of the last 8 games of 08.

The Skins went from 6-2 to 2-6 because film and successful defensive schemes were being compiled on JC in a Zorn called Offense. Def Coordinators knew of JC's limitations but, the wild card was Zorn's calls. The last 8 games of the 08 season (2-6) are more indicative of the upcoming 2009 season. Each opposing Def Coordinator "stole" from previous game's opponent's Def Coordinator who "figured out" the weaknesses of JC in a Zorn WC Offense. JC's stats are strongly padded by short passes because he doesnt "Read" fast enough to reach his 3rd progression which is where a 3rd or 4th Read all-pro QB, like Collins, finds a separated WR who is open for a long ball. So, JC had to evolve into a short passing QB, great for stats, bad for TD's and resulted in an offense scoring less points than an 0-16 team.

JC only had 3 completions total in 08 of more than 40 yards in 16 games (and 2 of those were 20+ YAC)!! Collins had 2 completions over 40+ in ONLY 4 games in 07 and a QB rating of 106. In comparison, Jason's QB rating in 07 with the same personnel was only 77.
So, why didnt Collins play at all in 08?
Unfortunately, the Redskins seem to play the size of the Contract, not the better player. Successful teams play the better player from the previous game or practices.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I expect a better game plan this year, and with an upgraded defense and another year of coaching and play calling and an offense in a better ryhtm, we should hopefully pick up where we should have gone last year.

Posted by: Zeebs | March 26, 2009 1:53 PM |

It is something to look forward to.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 26, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

we need to find an elite QB

Posted by: zjfr2

Why don't you swing by the "elite QB store" pick one up and drop it off at redskins park

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

whoever posted that comment about our being used to Snider era QB's was brilliant. We had to go 10 years, between JC and Brad Johnson to get 1 guy to start at QB all 16 games, Even Detroit has had a more constant QB in that time, heck name me 1 team who has had more QB's in the past 10 years then the redskins, because I cannot think of any, well maybe SF but even their they had a few seasons of consistency (Garcia).

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan ... hmmm doesn't hold a candle to the
legendary Babe Laufenberg ... now a color commentary type for the Cowgirls.

The Redskins foremost and most exciting pre-season only quarterback.

Never did win a starting job ....

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I found my punt returner/late round gem, but he's only a junior ... Javier Arenas (cousin of Gilbert).

Last season, all the leading punt returners were seniors. Most of them were wide receivers

This season, they are all underclassmen.

Given that we seem set at WR and RB, I figure that MAYBE they bring in someone who can out-return Rock ... but good luck to them with that. Rock is a solid KR.

I'm done with the heartache of ARE returning punts.

Arenas is a DB/return specialist.

Of the return guys from last year's draft (D. Thomas and J. Tryon), the returns they did in college were on kickoffs, not punts.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"Ultimately, when you look at Collins's contract, the Skins really bought themselves three years with which to figure out what Brennan's true upside can be and so, again, I believe there is no huge rush to throw the kid into the fire. They need him to be backup ready by 2010."


Of course they could draft Sanchez with their 1st ... and then you would need extra QB's as cannon fodder when the OL collapses.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

How guys like Skip Bayless and Woody Paige ever got on tv baffles the mind. And anyone who bases their opinion on something that a guy like that believes should be removed from the gene pool. Cutler put up some big stats but when his team needed to win 1 out of the last 3 games to get in the playoffs he was a turnover machine. Plus he comes across as a selfish crybaby.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 26, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Can we please stop referencing Collins' run as starter as 07. I dont think that it was Collins play that was great, remember the redskins had something they were playing for. Collins was good, but they were playing for Sean Taylor. Didn't he start that playoff game in Seattle as well?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

alex

'...Colt needs to grow back the dreds...'

Guys like Colt need NFL Europe.

I don't get what the league does: it over protects quarterbacks via rules, but doesn't provide them with a venue where a 2nd/3rd stringer can get some playing time against legit competition.

Maybe it's me, but I think the league took NFL Europe for granted as I remember folks complaining about q-back play during the late 80s-early 90s. The league invested in NFL Europe and many young quarterbacks--Delhomme/Warner best examples--got a chance to get their stuff together.

The NFL is a cash cow because major colleges do much of the developement work for them, and it seems to work for every position--except quarterback.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 26, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

So, why didnt Collins play at all in 08? Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

27 year old with a laser cannon -or- 37 year old with a pea shooter. Your starting Collins, good luck

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Hmm... any good examples out there of mediocre skill players made to look like superstars by strong O-line play (e.g. Timmy Smith)?

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 26, 2009 2:16 PM

Or, with 2008 examples, Kerry Collins or Matt Ryan. Titans have been building their O-line for 3-4 years ... Falcons did a two year rebuild. Anybody can be serviceable if they have a cool head, decent pass protection, and balanced attack ... even Brunell had flashes of that when they had that combo (only flashes b/c the passing game had -- has -- yet to arrive to provide balance).

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Of course they could draft Sanchez with their 1st ... and then you would need extra QB's as cannon fodder when the OL collapses.

Posted by: periculum |

Or you caould draft OL and have a chance to make the playoffs

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 what makes an elite QB? Where are they? Were the last two Super Bowl winning QBs elite QBs? You don't find elite QBs sitting around doing nothing. He!!, I don't even know if there are any currently in the NFL. The real good ones (Brady, Manning) are good system QBs. They are good in the offensive system that they run (which is why Cassell stepped in and did a great job). Those systems are good from the equipment man to the QB and everyone in between. Elite QBs are the product of good systems. That is why it is called a Football Team. It requires and depends on everyone on the team executing and doing there job - in all aspects - to give the "Team" their best chance at winning. No one person can do it all - not even elite QBs.

Posted by: SPUD2 | March 26, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

How can cambell become a system QB when in his college and pro career he consistenetly works under different OC. I say he needs three years under one system before we throw him under the bus. The closeest he has come is two years under saunders and now his second year under zorn.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey 4th the link page says it can not be find

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

There is love for Cutler because a lot of football analysis have love for him.

It was thought out of him, Vince Young, and Lineart, that Cutler will be the best of the three.

Does anyone want to argue that now?

I don't think he's a prima donna, a cancer, or whatever else metaphors and similes you can come up with. He has been "the man" his entire football career to date - he's spolied, he's been coddled his whole career, he's been told that he's better than anyone else (although those who were telling him probably meant the football field, if you hear it enough times you'll just start to believe it in general, IMO)

For those that don't understand guys like Cutler, you would have to understand what it's like to be Jay Cutler.

I think Cutler is a okay guy, he just needs to grow up and understand that the NFL is a business.

With that said, if Cutler could be had for the right price, and especially if Denver was willing to trade Cutler for Campbell straight up; I'd hope that the front office would make that move every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 26, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"we need to find an elite QB, certainly not easy, but we could be mediocre for 5 more years waiting to surround JC with enough talent and depth to make us a winner, and that is assuming that all of a sudden our idiotic FO figured out how to do that.
Posted by: zjfr2"

Hoc Est Ridiculum ... think that was a Harry Potter spell?

The REDSKINS have had ONLY TWO count 'em again elite QB's in their entire history.

1. Sammy Baugh (drafted)
2. Christian Adolph Jurgenson.
(acquired in trade)

And that is not to say that they did not draft a whole passel in the 1st round. Including recently with picks like Patrick Ramsay ...

APPARENTLY they almost had a 3RD! If they had traded for John Elway that would have certainly made three.

One can see how difficult it is to find and then mold elite quarterbacks. Many teams (like Detroit and recently Cleveland) have spent many a high 1st round pick on "franchise/potentially elite QBs" as has San Diego.

San Diego has done the best with Brees and Rivers throwing out Leaf. Even with some of the great QB's from their past they still had to deal with the Redskins to get a "mediocre" QB to lead their Bobby Ross led team to the superbowl now didn't they?

Elite QB. There probably really aren't any "elilte" QBs in the NFL right now. Maybe McNabb ... Archie's progeny. After that ... good but not great.

But then I've been spoiled, learned to know that a Cutler is probably more akin to a Schroeder than an Elway.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Hmm... any good examples out there of mediocre skill players made to look like superstars by strong O-line play (e.g. Timmy Smith)?


I know im gonna get crushed for this but how bout our friend in dallas...Emmitt Smith. He wasnt mediocre, but I dont care what anyone says he is not better than Barry or Walter.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Interesting Factoid.

Vikings superbowl QB Joe Kapp was originally drafted by the Washington Redskins. But went to the Canadian league.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Cuz it was a joke.....

Sorry, it was in my head and too funny so I had to put it down on the keyboard.....

(I learned from the dudes who posted fake stuff)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Periculum - If you're gonna use Sonny's real name, why not use Sammy's real name.

BTW, Sammy hated the name 'Sammy' and he never wore cowboots until GPMarshall prop'd him up.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"I'm done with the heartache of ARE returning punts.

Arenas is a DB/return specialist.

Of the return guys from last year's draft (D. Thomas and J. Tryon), the returns they did in college were on kickoffs, not punts.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009"

Moss did pretty well as a spot punt returner ...

Not as good as the original X-factor punt returner extraordinaire: Darrel Green.

The best they ever had bar none. Every time he touched the ball he had real potential to return a touchdown.

After Moss its good ol' James Thrash ....

Boy don't you love our 2008 rookie class?

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Moe,
You are talking to arguably the biggest proponent of developmental football on the blog. I have called for a true AAA system for years for the NFL (but especially with the fall of Europa)

In the Alex35332 version of the NFL. Colt would be getting ready for his second year as a starting QB for the Richmond Warriors.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Yeah.. Patrick Ramsey had a cannon arm, so did Jeff George.... How'd they work out??? What good is a cannon arm you cant make a second progression Read? Opposing DB's and LB's knew they could release their cover guy after 2 seconds in the Red Zone, with JC at QB.

Collins proved you have a better chance of being in the playoffs with a QB who has a 106 rating and can make at least than a 3rd Read.. Campbell has been a terrible waste of money but the Skins are stuck with his Contract and feel they have to play him (unless injured like in 07).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, why didnt Collins play at all in 08? Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

27 year old with a laser cannon -or- 37 year old with a pea shooter. Your starting Collins, good luck

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 2:24 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

The Skins went from 6-2 to 2-6 because film and successful defensive schemes were being compiled on JC in a Zorn called Offense.... The last 8 games of the 08 season (2-6) are more indicative of the upcoming 2009 season...

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 2:16 PM

You've identified part of the reason. You've neglected to mention key injurues across both lines (yes, I know all teams have them) and the failure of the rookie class to step up.

I personally think Zorn will learn from his mistakes, and the offense could be significanly different with a reduction in injuries and some of the young guys stepping up this year. There's no reason those three things can't happen.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Montana's kid is in his last year of High School, so keep him on the radar.

Also, Simms has another son who I think will be a freshman this year and is better than Chris Simms.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

"Given that we seem set at WR and RB, I figure that MAYBE they bring in someone who can out-return Rock ... but good luck to them with that. Rock is a solid KR.
Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009"

He also makes an attractive salary cap casualty for the black polish toenail twins. Watch them try to do that anyway.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

COLT! :)

Posted by: rachel216 | March 26, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I say, you keep Jason Campbell, and get the roster stabilized around a QB who is at least solid and consistent, maybe he takes you to the next level, but once you know you are at a point where you have a roster of 53 good blue collar types you can make a decision on a new QB or whatever.

JC is steady, use it to the advantage of the team and build the rest of the roster up before you go blowing the wad looking for a manning.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I hear Elway's son shows promise and is either in his freshmen or Sophomore year.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Skins 2009 needs to be modeled after Ravens/Steelers '08.

On offense, conservative. A QB that doesn't make mistakes (we got that) and a run first mentality (we got that).

On defense, domination. Aggressive at the line with guys that don't miss tackles (we have that) and create plenty of pressure (we should have more) and a secondary that gets turnovers (we could be much better).

Following this blueprint, it makes most sense for the Skins to trade UP and get Curry, the one guy that most think will be a major force in year 1. We're looking to go from good to elite. Another elite talent is probably what it will take.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

You know what would have been fun? If we had the interweb back in 87 when there was a for real QB controversy…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell threw just 6 picks in 16 games. That is just outstanding.

______
Not if the team ends up 8-8 it's not. The Skins had like a top 5 defense.. their RB and FB went to the Pro Bowl.. that tells me it was the passing game that deserves the blame.. 6 picks also means to few passes down field and to many safe passes meaning underneath for short gains.. That equals to few points and to many 3 and outs...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Marcus Mason must have some kids.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 26, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

. He has been "the man" his entire football career to date -

My only question. What has he won since he been in Denver?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

. He has been "the man" his entire football career to date -

My only question. What has he won since he been in Denver?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

How can cambell become a system QB when in his college and pro career he consistenetly works under different OC. I say he needs three years under one system before we throw him under the bus. The closeest he has come is two years under saunders and now his second year under zorn.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

DG28 I agree totally. Although I don't particularly like Zorn's insistence on using his version of the WC Offense. We need to have JC do some of the things that he clearly does well. Throw mid-range passes over the middle, throw long, roll-out more, work from the shotgun more. All these things go against the WC Offense. JC did not throw long in the second half of the season because Zorn did not call any deep pass routes because he did not think JC would get the time to throw. All of our pass routes were short routes and easily defended. Ask any defender and they will tell you, it is easy to stop a short passing game and a run game if you don't have to worry about the long ball. JC has improved every year and he will improve this year. I just hope the rest of the team improves as well. He can't win by himself, and if we fail, it won't be his fault and his fault alone. He will need a couple of years in Zorn's offense to be good at - I just don't know if Zorn's offense is any good!!

Posted by: SPUD2 | March 26, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

One more note of the whole Ryan/Campbell deal. Just add to it. Atlanta also had 23 RUSHING TDs... Redskins 12. Atlanta also had ONE starting lineman above the age of 27.

If you're grading out the skins, QB is a C, maybe a C-. My point is that there are other positions that need to be upgraded before one can expect a QB be successful.
Starting with the o-line.

Matt Ryan got sacked 17 times
Cutler got sacked 12
Brees got sacked 12

Here's to hoping that #13 pick goes to something that actually needs some help.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

peri

'....I figure that MAYBE they bring in someone who can out-return Rock ...'


That's why the midget special teamers were brought in--to add somebody with a dash of speed.

I like the FO's thinking on this issue, and I have a sense they might look at players like Maclin, Harvin, D Williams from Penn State and say, "Why not draft us a speed guy?"

A 'field-flipper' is a guy who if given 7-10 touches a game either breaks a long one, gets a chunk of yards on two plays a game, or occupies the attention of whomever is double covering a star receiver.

When you look around the league, you see more and more teams having one offensive performer whose sole job it is to get gobs of yards on screens, punts, kicks, and gadget plays (Slaton, Cribbs, Hester, Bush, Sproles, Westbrook) and the Redskins don't have that one player on offense.

Yet.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 26, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn threw 107 TDs and 133 picks as a QB. Obviously, he's learned a lot since his playing days and doesn't want JC17 to have nummbers like those. He seems to really appreciate the way JC17 protects the ball.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Why do I have the feeling this battle might inflame more fan passion than any other?
_____
Because QB battles are always the most interesting and heated on a team.. For the Skins it goes back to Sonny vs Billy. (Sonny was better) But here's a crazy idea.. if there is a battle for who should be number 2 why not open it up and let ALL 3 QB's battle for all 3 spots? I mean were would the Falcons and Ravens been last year if they said Ryan and Flacco should be protected and only given a shot at number 2??? (and those guys were rookies) The Browns and Vikings have OPEN COMPITITION for QB this year.. Skins should do the same.. Let the BEST MAN WIN!!!

Posted by: sovine08 | March 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell threw just 6 picks in 16 games. That is just outstanding.
______
Not if the team ends up 8-8 it's not. The Skins had like a top 5 defense.. their RB and FB went to the Pro Bowl.. that tells me it was the passing game that deserves the blame.. 6 picks also means to few passes down field and to many safe passes meaning underneath for short gains.. That equals to few points and to many 3 and outs...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM"
_________

Yes, "that tells me it was the passing game that deserves the blame.." And before the 08 season started, we knew that there would be minor changes to the running game and major changes to the passing game.

Yes, that was Jim Zorn's call. I can only imagine how easy it is to implement a new passing philosophy as a first year HC/OC, with a hefty amount of viable WRs on board.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

alex,

Elway's son hasnt even hit the field yet, and is not guaranteed to start in this fall.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Not if the team ends up 8-8 it's not. The Skins had like a top 5 defense.. their RB and FB went to the Pro Bowl.. that tells me it was the passing game that deserves the blame.. 6 picks also means to few passes down field and to many safe passes meaning underneath for short gains.. That equals to few points and to many 3 and outs...

Posted by: sovine08

First, Portis went to the Pro Bowl, but he was a marginal choice. DeAngelo Williams didn't go, and his numbers crushed the other guys there. A couple of others had comparable seasons to Portis. Sellers went for his blocking and because there really aren't many fullbacks.

The defense was 4th in yards allowed. They were 3rd from LAST in turnovers!!

Last year's team had talent as long as all the starters were healthy. When Moss tweaked his hammy and the OL started getting dinged up, the offense was running on fumes.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2, what evidence? Most of the arguments against JC read like... Campbell sucks and doesnt throw deep. There is not much of a tangible argument in that logic.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

13 TDs in 16 games in 08
6.4 avg completion yardage 08
15 W 26 L as a starter (ommiting the Bears start that he was injured in and TC came in and won)

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 1:45 PM

OK zjfr2, let's plug in some real stats (source: nfl.com). How about a side by side comparison with Super Bowl winner Rothlisberber?

Roth. Campbell

Comp Pct. 59.9 62.3
Attempts 469 506
Yards 3,301 3,245
Avg. 7.0 6.4
TD's 17 13
Int's 15 6
Fumbles 14 7
F/Lost 7 1
Sacked 46 38
Rating 80.1 84.3
Run Avg. 3.0 5.5

Campbell has a higher completion percentage, similar yards per, slightly smaller average, dramatically superior TD to INT ratio, 4 fewer TD passes for the entire season, 15 fewer turnovers, better rushing average, better QB rating, and although Campbell "Holds the ball way too long" has 13 fewer sacks.

Statistically, Campbell was similar or better in most categories, yet the measure of success for the TEAMS was quite different.

What do you suppose that means?

Have at it everybody...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"The Browns and Vikings have OPEN COMPITITION for QB this year.. Skins should do the same.. Let the BEST MAN WIN!!!

Posted by: sovine08 | March 26, 2009"

With the sequential loss of Schaub and Vick the Falcons had no choice but to go rookie. They got lucky that's for sure ... now for the 2nd year jinx ... that's when they sometimes flop after a good first year. The only guy who never flagged after starting as a rookie was Marino.


In the Raven's case Flacco did indeed play like a rookie but was saved by the league's premier defense. They actually scored points.

Colt is Babe Laufenberg not Peyton Manning. He doesn't have the physicality for starters ... just bravado. More of Joe T. than a Flacco or Ryan who were both FIRST ROUND picks. Whereas Joe T. was a 3rd rounder for Miami as I recall. His constant James Thrash like drive got him into the starting QB spot with the Skins after Sonny was "demoted" and Billy was retired. He volunteered to return punts on the specials just to play. He once even volunteered to punt ... with disastrous results. He was always ready to do whatever it took. I don't see that in Colt.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

You people that are bringing up former NFL quarterbacks sons are really reaching. For what I have no idea.

Posted by: Skins281 | March 26, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I say, you keep Jason Campbell, and get the roster stabilized around a QB who is at least solid and consistent, maybe he takes you to the next level, but once you know you are at a point where you have a roster of 53 good blue collar types you can make a decision on a new QB or whatever.

JC is steady, use it to the advantage of the team and build the rest of the roster up before you go blowing the wad looking for a manning.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

alex, very solid post and very sound point that I would totally agree with if I had any faith in our FO to build that solid 52 man roster around JC. That's kinda my point/problem. They been trying for 10 years now to find a legit #1 WR or even a legit receiving core period, they've allowed both lines to deteriorate and solved that with a $100 million man and resigning a guy they let go in the first place, they spent big money on a big risk in Hall, they have multiple needs still on the line, DE, and LB and all of that ignores the fact that our same offensive issues will still exist in a thin/weak receiving unit, a one trick pony RB who's biggest compliments at this point are about his blocking and with little changeup/talent behind him and not enough resources to fix those problems. Plus next year the same problems will remain, Rabach, Thomas, 2 DEs, and possibly Fletcher/McIntosh, corner as Smoot probably is done at his price tag, RB same issues with CP a year older, Moss and ARE still small, still hammy issues, and a year older and around and around we go, so IMHO we are several years from building a sound team, we are stuck in our constantly reload instead of ever allowing it to rebuild, so it makes no sense to muddle on with a mediocre QB and not take a shot at making a big move to get "the guy" since that's what we do everywhere else anyway why should QB be different?

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Actually Per, I think Joe T was "volunteered" to punt, as in, they told him to stay out on 4th down and punt, so he did it. And yeah, it was pretty bad.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"Have at it everybody...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009"

Campbell is the closest thing the Redskins have had to an elite QB since Doug Williams.

But, he never reached that pinnacle.

Campbell is the best bet to get close to Jurgy land we've yet had. Jurgy did not start as quickly as Campbell. The guy has had to live through too many changes due to the mercurial nature of Snidely Owl, clearly some bastard progeny of Bob Short. THREE different offensive systems since he got here.

Let's give him an offensive line and let him settle in with one system and see what happens.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

And they probably also could use a running back like Atlanta's Michael Turner ... 5'10" and 244 pounds.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"You people that are bringing up former NFL quarterbacks sons are really reaching. For what I have no idea.

Posted by: Skins281 | March 26, 2009"

Archie, Peyton and Eli Manning ... possibly all might be considered "elite" quarterbacks.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Someone may have posted this already, but accoring to the Times, Devin Thomas is now at the offseason workouts in Ashburn. Said he was at MSU helping guys get ready for their pro day earlier and that's why he wasn't working out w the team.

Posted by: countystyle | March 26, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

He better show up this year, on the field. What a jackass

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 -

I think your argument disproves your conclusion. If we are so deep in problems, what good will committing lots of cap money and/or high drafts picks on a QB do us? Or did you have another plan for acquiring one?

We would be better served using the picks and money to get our house in order and build our lines back to dominance. Without that, I don't see how any QB will make a big difference. As posted above, side by side - Campbell was statistically similar to Rothlisberger, but what good did that do us?

Build the lines.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Let's give him an offensive line and let him settle in with one system and see what happens.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:10 PM


truer words...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Actually per, I would never consider Archie an elite QB. Are you serious? Or Eli. You are talking 4 or 5 years away when you mention these sons of HOF quartebacks. It was stupid to even bring it up. Wow, the youngest Simms (in high school) is better than Chris Simms. That takes alot.

Posted by: Skins281 | March 26, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I have watched Colt Brennan for years at Hawaii and saw him in pre-season last year. This kid has the ability and skill to be a pro bowl QB, He has a quick release, see's the whole field, makes quick reads and is more accurate than Matt Ryan and Flacco! I watched him in the QB challenge before the draft and he was spectacular at putting the ball in the receivers hands
better than the last two. John Madden said this kid was going to be a star! Put him in! Colt did everything and more that was expected of him it's not his fault he didn't get a chance to play more. In fact we would know more IF Zorn let him play at the end of the season last year.. I for one would have loved to see Colt play that last game just to get a better idea of how he performs in a real game. Now Zorn is already declaring Campbell as his starter. In Minnesota and Cleveland they announced there will be OPEN COMPETITIONS at QB... Why can't Washington do the same? You say don't have much to judge Colt on? Fine.. Give him a CHANCE to start.. He's not afraid of a challenge.. why is Campbell???

Posted by: KurtShanaman | March 26, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I dont think that it was Collins play that was great, remember the redskins had something they were playing for. Collins was good, but they were playing for Sean Taylor. Didn't he start that playoff game in Seattle as well?
_______________
The Skins were also playing for Taylor against Buffalo when Campbell was QB.. and they lost (Now u want to blame Gibbs for calling that 2nd TO fine.. but the Bills sucked, it shouldn't have even been close.. FYI that was Campbell's 4th loss in a row)Besides another way to look at it was Collins won 4 games without having Taylor the best defensive player on the field. And Collins was just "good"? He had a 106 QB rating and was the Offensive player of the month in the NFC.. I'd say he was a much bigger factor for the Skins making the playofs than you let on. And yeah he lost to Seattle.. but the Seahawks won every home game that year.. Collins 4-1 was still much better than Campbell's 5-7...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 26, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

put the kid in already we've already seen what Campbell can do and can't do - throw TD's. Watching the redskins last year was PAINFULLY boring something needs to change

Posted by: pathmo | March 26, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

There's an important hamster whose knowledge is thourough on this topic that's missing........

Posted by: 4thFloor

Geez 4th! Don't bring up THE Campbell basher of all Campbell bashers! I think everyone has had enough of his bovine scathology...I know I have.

Posted by: tripz | March 26, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

""The Browns and Vikings have OPEN COMPITITION for QB this year.. Skins should do the same.. Let the BEST MAN WIN!!!Posted by: sovine08"

Not because they want to. It's because they don't have a starting quarterback they like.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

"So, why didnt Collins play at all in 08?"

Same reason he didn't get to play in all those seasons prior to the end of '07. People -- I mean coach and GM types -- don't think he's a championship QB.

Fair or unfair, that's the rap he picked up along the way. It's like a character actor who can't get a starring role, in spite of being worlds better than the young stud puppies in Hollywood.

Is Collins a good QB? Look, did you see him at the end of '07? Name a Skins QB who's played as well since Doug Williams stood behind center.

Certainly Campbell hasn't. And I like Campbell.

Now, would Collins excel in Zorn's scheme? Heck, no. He doesn't like it. It minimizes his strengths and maximizes his flaws. Plus he doesn't know it anywhere near as well as the Gibbs approach.

But we're stuck with him, and he's stuck with us. Nobody will give him a chance to start. At least Dan Snyder is paying the guy. That's something.

This whole thing is bollixed up because Dan Snyder impulsively hired Jim Zorn to be the Head Coach. That set up back a solid year. Whether we make up some ground this year depends on the players, the coaches, and luck.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 26, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Put Colt in! He is ready. He was the best rookie QB last year. He played better then Ryan and Flacco. Let him get his experience and work out the kinks with playing with the starters.

Posted by: smiley4284 | March 26, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Put Colt in! He is ready. He was the best rookie QB last year. He played better then Ryan and Flacco. Let him get his experience and work out the kinks with playing with the starters.

Posted by: smiley4284 | March 26, 2009 9:07 PM

Right on Smiley! I have been a skins fan since the 1960's and have seen the glory days. It all starts with a monster OLINE, remember the hogs? I know Colt would tera it up behind the hogs. Now lets build the new hogs and give Colt a chance. I have seen enough NFL to know that Joe Montana was only 6 feet tall, Colt 6'2", Montana had a weak arm or so they said bit he made all the throws! Colt has a stronger and more ACCURATE arm than JM. Both scramble when needed to, many said Joe wouldn't get it done, Joe and Colt do their quick reads and deliver the ball where it's supposed to be. Give Colt the protection and he will NOT throw int's. He had no line at the Sugar bowl! No one could play under those circumstances. Mark my words, JIM ZORN...Colt is and will be the answer-GIVE HIM A CHANCE! That's all, a chance!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | March 26, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Doug Williams was our last great QB and I loved him for being a great Redskin. Campbell is NO Doug Williams. We have had Campbell for FIVE years now and maybe SIX with this year. The only reason he is still here is because we had so many coaching changes that each coach had to have a year or two to evaluate him but then was gone before a new coach came in, same story! ^ years and lets see if he can take us to the Superbowl?

Posted by: KurtShanaman | March 26, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"Mark my words, JIM ZORN...Colt is and will be the answer-GIVE HIM A CHANCE! That's all, a chance!Posted by: KurtShanaman"

Okay, Cork, it's time to go to bed now.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 6:31 AM | Report abuse

All they need to make sure of is that the other positions surrounding Campbell are above average to great. Wouldn't you agree that of all the 22 positions on offense and defense; a all-world franchise QB is the most difficult to be had?
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You have it all backwards.. Maybe an all world QB is the hardest to find.. but it is still ONE POSITION!! Your plan to get 21 OTHER all world players in every other position so we can win with a average QB is NOT easier to do... It's simple people get the BEST person you HAVE or can get for EVERY position (including QB). But you will never KNOW until you give EVERY player a CHANCE to be the starter...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 27, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

""The Browns and Vikings have OPEN COMPITITION for QB this year.. Skins should do the same.. Let the BEST MAN WIN!!!Posted by: sovine08"
Posted by: Samson151
Not because they want to. It's because they don't have a starting quarterback they like.
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On the contrary.. I think they like all their QB's (they're the ones who drafted or traded for them) I just don't think they know which one gives them the best chance to win. So they will make them COMPETE to find out. Now whether you are a Campbell, Collins or Colt fan I don't know why anyone should have a problem with this idea...


Posted by: sovine08 | March 27, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, whoever thinks Colt Brennan would be a good NFL caliber qb, go ahead and read this article.

Posted by: BMACattack | March 28, 2009 4:12 AM | Report abuse

"he'll know that his future is riding on showing that he is the best option behind Campbell"

His future? You mean, like, next year?

Posted by: WorstSeat | March 29, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

If I could get a 4th round pick for Campbell I'd pay for and drive his moving truck PERSONALLY...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | March 29, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Enough already about Campbell---He is only a rookie---this is only his second year---this is his third year and he is learning the system---now four years. I would love to see Collins----why you ask--- because I want to see the Skins win a few games---Any other team Campbell would be long gone---his record speaks for itself---He is pedestrian ....at best. What level draft choice could we get ---not much---and throw in Smoot and Rodgers. B-O-R-I-N-G

Posted by: passonfirstdown | March 29, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Enough already about Campbell---He is only a rookie---this is only his second year---this is his third year and he is learning the system---now four years. I would love to see Collins----why you ask--- because I want to see the Skins win a few games---Any other team Campbell would be long gone---his record speaks for itself---He is pedestrian ....at best. What level draft choice could we get ---not much---and throw in Smoot and Rodgers. B-O-R-I-N-G

Posted by: passonfirstdown | March 29, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

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