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Position Battle: Kicker

Now that the quarterback issue is behind us, it's time to return to our regularly scheduled programming and finish up the position battles. We'll talk about kickers today and punters tomorrow.

A lot of fans would have liked to have seen an upgrade at kicker after Shaun Suisham again struggled to take the next step toward becoming a reliable kicker. He got off to a nice start, booming his kickoffs, pinning teams deep and showing ample leg - if not always accuracy - on field goals, but was inconsistent as the season wore on.

The plan last summer was for him to rest, conserve his leg strength, and gradually work his way through camp (he had no competition at Redskins Park). That's changed now. He will be fighting for his job after showing an inability to connect from beyond 39 yards (ranking near the bottom of the NFL). He suffered through a string of misses that were critical and muzzled an already middling offense; the Skins didn't score enough or work the red zone well enough to carry an erratic kicker. If they continue to play close games this fall, having a capable kicker is extremely important.

The problems with the kicking game are severe enough that the team is planning to bring four combined kickers/punters, none of whom is a sure thing or has a strong resume, to camp.

The guy signed to push Suisham, Dave Rayner, is a fourth-year player out of Michigan State who has bounced around and failed to find any sort of permanent home. He attempted all of one field goal in 2008, with the Bengals, and the Redskins are his sixth team since 2005. Rayner hasn't spent an entire season with one NFL team since 2006.

This one will play out in camp and preseason games, and it's hard to really call anyone the leader. Suisham got a one-year contract tender, and the organization has been patient with him the past few years, but you get the sense this is make-or-break time. Rayner isn't someone who is going to inspire immediate confidence or provide a sense of long-term security, and this might be his last shot at an NFL career. There's plenty of motivation for both players but perhaps neither is the ultimate solution.

By Jason La Canfora  |  April 5, 2009; 9:36 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Position Battle: Punter

Comments

first?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday I watched the NFL Network's replay of our first game against the Eagles - Suisham was kicking the lights out of the ball....even kicked a 50 yard field goal.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 6, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Feels good to stop freaking out about our QB situation any more and break down the perplexity of our kicking game.

That Brooks pick last year sure worked out. I hope Suisham can tighten up and keep his job if for no other reason than I like saying his name. Suisham.

PS. I heard Jay Cutler had a leg and we could have worked him as our kicker too.

Posted by: sidkid31 | April 6, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

There'a a guy that played for Florida State last year named Gano who would fit in real nice in Washington. He can kick and punt, and is deadly accurate. Are you listening, Vinny?

Posted by: sufferinskinsfan | April 6, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

There's a guy that played for Florida State last year named Gano who would fit in real nice in Washington. He can kick and punt, and is deadly accurate. Are you listening, Vinny?

Posted by: sufferinskinsfan | April 6, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

I also suspect that Suisham will get his groove back ... and this time figure out how to maintain it for the entire season.

That said, you can never go wrong with a guy from MICHIGAN STATE (WOOO HOOOOO!!!!), except for the random shortcomings of one sort or another, like in Devin "Junior Year" Thomas, Tony "Juice Bust" Mandarich, Plaxico "Bang Bang" Burress, and, to a lesser extent, Will Whittington.

I missed the jibba jabba re: Leftwich, but I heart Leftwich and still contend that if Roethlispelling had had to finish out that game, Skins would have won. Leftwich is the second coming of Charlie Batch (the previous best second QB in the league).

Posted by: dcsween | April 6, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

This is the one position on the team I don't get with Danny. Is their any spot in the NFL that you can actually plug and play more then K/P. You would think that Dan would throw down a lot of cash for a good kicker and punter.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 6, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I think the problems at kicker start with the coaching. Danny Smith seems to be solid at coaching coverage units, but he doesn't seem to be able to develop kickers or punters. For that matter, I can't think of a solid kicker for the Redskins since Chip Lohmiller. I can't think of a decent punter since Matt Turk. Those guys were in Washington before Danny Smith came to town.

The problems at kicker/punter are also about priorities. I cannot think of a time when the Redskins said they were actively looking for the best free agent kicker or punter available. Why not? A good, reliable kicker can be the second or third highest scorer on a football team (for the Redskins last year, a kicker could be the highest scorer). A good punter can mean a fifteen yard difference in field position every time the offense fails to get it in the end zone (which for the Redskins last year was quite often). This is an area where the Redskins could really help themselves if they threw their money at the problem.

Yet, here we are. The team will evaluate some marginal players this offseason, and when the regular season rolls around we will lose at least one game by a missed field goal and another by the field position given up by an errant punt. It's just another thing the Redskins should know by now, but don't.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | April 6, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

RSH, they did go for the best punter in the draft just last season ... sometimes the draft, however, doesn't quite work out.

Lots of kickers start out mediocre before they find their place and get their groove.

Posted by: dcsween | April 6, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The Vikings, Giants, Ravens, Titans, and Panthers had strong running games and strong defenses, what are you talking about?

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 9:58 AM

The Ravens were in the AFC Championship game, right?

The Panthers (pass) defense was horrendous. That's why they got burnt by ARZ.

The Vikings don't have a QB.

The Giants had NO passing threat.

And the Titans just lost to a better team (for the day) in the Ravens.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Is their any spot in the NFL that you can actually plug and play more then K/P. You would think that Dan would throw down a lot of cash for a good kicker and punter.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 6, 2009 10:19 AM

Exactly. Do you think the Patriots have all those rings if their kicker is named Peg Leg Bob instead of AV? I don't think so. A good kicker eases the burden of mistakes and gives you a chance to win more games.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

4th, you're spoiled by Portis. Betts is an above-average pass-blocker, just not elite like CP. In fact, part of the reason CP was taken out against Baltimore was because Betts was better at recognizing when to stay in and block and when to release (though his actual skills in blocking aren't on the same level). Betts is fine. Sure, I'd love to have a Sproles-like change of pace guy, but not at the cost of a split-second starter like Betts, and this team doesn't hold the assets to spend a draft pick on a luxury like a 3rd RB.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 10:12 AM

MAybe I am spoiled by CP, true.

But your example is what I am talking about. We lost that game partially because they took Portis out.

As Portis said, if you're supposed to go out in a pass pattern, but JC17 gets sacked before you even get out there, why go out there? Why no block that guy so he can get the ball off?

That's a direct example of Spurrier. Sending to many players out in pass patterns and not having enough blockers. And if it was designed like that so JC17 can make quick decisions, evidently he wasn't making them quick enough so Portis tried to salvage the game plan.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

In a division like the NFC BEAST a kicker that is reliable from 40 -50 yards could well be the difference between January Playoffs and Play Golfs.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Not sure I get going after Leftwich. He's a good B/U QB, but he doesn't strike me as a west coast O guy at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to bring in a vet minimum Westy rather than Lefty?

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

4th, that game was not lost because Portis was taken out. The Redskins didn't sniff a scoring opportunity until Portis was taken out and Betts came in. The only 2 scoring drives of that game featured Ladell Betts and not Portis. And that's not even taking into account Portis' fumble and the Ravens' subsequent defensive TD.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

oh god the kicker posts are back


and lol @ 4th's first name being Ahmad, what a loser!


also the yankees can suck it seriously!!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I still don't get how this team will chase Jay Cutler when they don't need a QB, but will pass on an instant upgrade at kicker when Mike Nugent was on the market. Absolutely no excuse for that crap...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 6, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I say this every year since the CHargers cut him:

Bring in JOHN CARNEY!!!!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 6, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

but on the (boring) topic of kickers

I would have liked to see us give Durant Brooks another shot. Dude is obviously a lame nerd from Georgia Tech, and there's no forgiving that, but who better to be a lame nerd kicker than a lame nerd from Georgia Tech?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Think of what happened this last season in terms of pure points, we lost 30 points due to missed kicks. That averages out to just about 2 points a game, that would move the O up to 25th in the league (not much but something). Look at our punting now. Skins were dead last at the punting, with 33 yards per punt. You put teams back another few yards and the D may go up to top 3.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 6, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Ok, it was combonation of Portis being taken out, bad play calling (or execution), and conservative play calling.

We were down 14-0 against the eagles and we slowly crept our way back up. Portis wasn't taken out of that game. And we won off of his back. You just don't pull your best player you got out when you're trying to win. You keep chopping and don't abandon the game plan. Adjust, maybe. That's what Zorn said in his post game comments after yesterday's Eagles game. You don't change your game plan just because the other team jumps out early.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

and lol @ 4th's first name being Ahmad, what a loser!


also the yankees can suck it seriously!!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:04 AM


I suspect the truth has a blog crush on me. Please don't show up at my job with flowers in hand......

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

chill out Ahmad!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

You 1st with your blog crush!

Only peeps with blog crushes call dudes by their real names truth....

Now quit it before I file a restraining order on you....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

From PFT:

More Motivation For Jason Campbell
Posted by Mike Florio on April 6, 2009, 11:00 a.m.
As if his own team’s dalliance with former Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler wasn’t enough to light a fire under the fanny of Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell, Peter King of SI.com has another twist that might give Campbell extra fuel for the coming conflagration.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels studied the film, and decided that he preferred Kyle Orton to Campbell.

“McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton,” King writes.

Um, in what league? AFL2.5?

Then again, we don’t doubt McDaniels’ confidence. His former team won with a sixth-rounder (Tom Brady) and a seventh-rounder (Matt Cassel). So why not give it a whirl with Orton, who was a third-rounder?

Meanwhile, the Broncos can pick a late-round guy and quietly develop him into the next Brady or Cassel.

If, that is, McDaniels took photos of the Belichick/Pioli 2009 draft board.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 6, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Would the truth care to offer up his true identity to the minions or shall we just assume that it is Egbert Urias Pennyworth IV?

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, give Brooks another chance. At least bring him in for competition for who ever they have on the roster. Is there a P on the current roster? Did they dump Plack? You would think Vinny would do it just to save face on his 1st draft that everyone likes to rub in the dirt.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

and lol @ 4th's first name being Ahmad, what a loser!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:04 AM |

Ahmad's cool. What's a loser is your first name -- SoFarFrom.

Oh, and the kicker from Georgia Tech? Ain't no Bulldog yet who's good enough to hold his balls.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Whats an etrod?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm just still really excited that dreadful Cutler crap fell through! No Ocho Stinko and No Cutler! And we still have our 1st rounder.

On topic, Suisham was 2 different kickers last year, I was wondering if he pulled a groin or something. Hopefully whoever locks up that position will get it done. I wouldn't mind seeing Brooks compete for the P position this year, maybe he just had some difficulty adjusting to the NFL last year.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse


Whats an etrod?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

the slavic word for moron.

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

On topic, Suisham was 2 different kickers last year, I was wondering if he pulled a groin or something.

...and if he did, let's hope it was his own.

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Whats an etrod?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

the slavic word for moron.

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Seriously? Cuz I looked it up on wikipedia and all I came up with is etrog, which is a jewish orange or some crap like that.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, give Brooks another chance. At least bring him in for competition for who ever they have on the roster.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:24 AM

Can't. He's on Green Bay's roster. Punters: Washington cuts 'em, Green Bay signs 'em.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Brooks is on the Packers practice squad. Plack was released at the end of the season.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 6, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

A couple of years ago when Adam Vinatieri became available, I couldn't believe the Redskins didn't sign the guy. From the Norv Turner era on there hasn't been a single more glaring weakness than FIELD GOAL KICKER. They spend so much money on everything else, why not go out and get yourself a kicker you know will go out and get you some points?

I can't tell you how many games the Redskins have lost in the past 15 years by three points or less, where a missed field goal or two (or three) cost them their chance to win. We're talking division titles, playoff wins that could have been but never were for the simple reason of not having a reliable kicker.

How much can an expensive kicker possibly cost anyway? No more than what they hand out to any other wasteful free agent pick-up (Jeff George, Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, David Patten, Jason Taylor, Jeremiah Trotter, and so on).

There's a big difference between consistently ending drives with three points and consistently missing makable field goals from the 30 to 35 yard line while setting the opposing team up with great field position in the process.

Posted by: corky1031 | April 6, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

http://www.all-acronyms.com/ETROD

Eastern Test Range Operations Directive

(He works for Noth Korea covertly)

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The kicker is especially important when your offense is limited and your defense is decent- look at the Ravens and Smokey Stover, they have been much more successful than the Skins the past decade. Suisham's leg isn't getting tired kicking off after touchdowns in this sluggish attrition offense, so what's the deal??

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

test

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 6, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"Oh, and the kicker from Georgia Tech? Ain't no Bulldog yet who's good enough to hold his balls.

Posted by: talent_evaluator |"

only a Techie would want another man holding his balls

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Busted.

etrod = Kim Jong-Il

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

only a Techie would want another man holding his balls

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 11:43 AM

Only a Bulldog would be asking for the privilege.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Why don't we use our backup QB as our holder? It would make the possibility of a fake much more realistic.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Let's waste one of our picks on a kicker. Cut Suisham after he performs better in training camp, and then cut the draft pick after he stinks up the joint a few weeks later.

...OH WAIT! We did that last year with a punter!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Kickers?

Got a better topic: it seems like one failing aspect of the redskins' offense over the past few years is the lack of a big receiver to run the skinny post/go route from 30-40 yards out.

The skins don't really attack the end zone once they get within field goal range which is why there has been so much field goal kicking in the first place.

You have to hope M Kelly isn't a bust as his big body against smaller cornerbacks is why he was drafted.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru: identity revealed

Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Guru,
Because that would make sense, really should be El holding. Can do a fake run, fake pass fake option

Posted by: alex35332 | April 6, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

On the topic of kickers and punters, the Skins have used some resources on them over the years. They gave John Hall a pretty nice salary and I believe also sacrificed a pick to get him, and they spent a draft pick on Durant Brooks. Some people argue for patience to not let one of our guys become the next David Akers for another team (like we're trying to do with Suisham), others argue to spend what it takes to get a proven guy like we did with John Hall.

In the end, this position is a crapshoot. Guys cycle in and out of teams like no other position on the field. Just got to get lucky at some point and find a guy that's comfortable and efficient with the team here.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

How about a punter/backup QB a-la Tom Tupa or Hunter Smith?

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

'...Why don't we use our backup QB as our holder?'

I wonder why we carry three quarterbacks.

Either Colt or Collins is taking a spot that could be used for a young lineman.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru, you aren't pining for Chokey "Derrick Frost" McShank, are you?

Yeah, he performed marginally better in training camp, but he always sucked when it counted! Just ask his former team, the Packers.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Why don't we use our backup QB as our holder? It would make the possibility of a fake much more realistic.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2009 11:48 AM

There are only so many practice hours. While the kicker is practicing, the backup QB is also practicing.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Cut Suisham after he performs better in training camp, and then cut the draft pick after he stinks up the joint a few weeks later.

...OH WAIT! We did that last year with a punter!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2009 11:49 AM

No, what we did last year was to cut our punter after he was injured. Now he's on Green Bay's squad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Packers coach on Chokey McShank:

McCarthy said Frost, who was signed when the team cut Jon Ryan just before the season opener in September, performed well in practices but couldn't carry it over to games.

Keeping Brooks was the right move last year, even though it didn't pan out.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Bunch of new Mock Drafts came out today and 2 have us taking Rey with our pick. Most of the ones that I saw today also have all 4 lineman gone before we pick, gone before 10 to be exact...obviously Mocks are mostly crap, but I think all 4 four OL could be gone...I think for Campbell to have a great year we need an OL. Previously I wanted a LB, but I am worried about our OL fading in the second half again.

I really dont want Rey, I would rather have Cushing.

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 6, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

truth

'...also the yankees can suck it seriously!!!'


Sucking is relative.

If your team brags it has four dominant pitchers and wins one ring in 10 years while they are on the team, that's the definition of sucking.

I remember the Braves LOSING to the Yanks in one of those World Series, BTW.

Hate on the Yanks all you want, my truthful friend, but when they, like Godzilla, come to your town, you and the braves will run like the rest of them do.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I think we are missing the real person who we should be using to hold the ball... Rock Cartwright.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 6, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Guru, you never go full blown 'tard man! Everyone knows that. Oh, maybe you didnt have a choice...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | April 6, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Has Khary Campbell signed with anyone?

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 6, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Quick question for "TheTruth11" and "Talent_Evaluator"

Are you guys comfortable having a discussion about holding balls?

Because, the Holder--and changing thereof--may well have been Suisham's issue. Say what you will about Theisman, he was one of the great holders ever. Watching him spin the laces perfectly every time was better than watching an old time plate spinner act.

Since the 'skins keep changing punters, might not be the brightest idea in the world having one as the FG holder. Yeah, it makes it easier for them to practice, but better to find some long-term player who can do it consistently every time.

If you don't think it matters, golfers, imagine someone teeing your drive at a different hight and distance from your stance each time. Not real good for consistency.

Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

D. Brooks is actually listed on the Packers active roster & their web site has Brooks as a cover story today. He said he had a hip flexor injury during the reg. season with us affecting his punting?? I don't remember that.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I for one think we should fire Danny Smith...I think our Special teams leave little to be desired and have since he became the Specials coach, if anyone is Simple Jack - I am picking Danny Smith!

Only person I hate more is ARE...

Posted by: mhartz1 | April 6, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"I really dont want Rey, I would rather have Cushing."

Couldn't disagree more. If it comes down to picking between those 2, you go with Maualuga. Guy was a stud and does the job when the pads are on. Cushing's prospects blew up after his combine. Give me a player, not a workout warrior.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 6, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I haven't seen cL since the Cutler trade went down.

Is he hiding so we can forget about his 'Cold Stone Lead Pipe Lock' of Cutler to the Jets?

(kidding of course)

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I'm excited to see how Chris Wilson can do at SAM LB.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 6, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

will_ga, it was on Insider back in October.

Some people here suggested it would be a good idea to put Brooks on IR or at least put him on the practice squad to see how he would perform without the injury.

I guess the Packers will get to make that call instead.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

matthew, I've got my fingers crossed for that playing out too. Filling a need by finding a hidden gem already on your roster is a dream scenario. If Wilson can step up and play the SAM, they won't feel the need to reach for a guy in the draft.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | April 6, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I think it all depends on how this Chris Wilson experiment turns out, but.....

LFB prob has 1/2 more good years in him.


If possible, we need to trade down or start trading next years picks.

YES, I SAID IT. TRADE NEXT YEARS PICKS.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

D. Brooks is actually listed on the Packers active roster & their web site has Brooks as a cover story today. He said he had a hip flexor injury during the reg. season with us affecting his punting?? I don't remember that.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 12:06 PM

He was on the practice squad. At the end of the season, the practice squad no longer exists. The roster is expanded, substantially. So he was moved to the active roster.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Quick question for "TheTruth11" and "Talent_Evaluator"

Are you guys comfortable having a discussion about holding balls?

Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 12:04 PM

Sure, but if it's a problem for you, we can talk in code or something.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I've seen a couple of mocks that have the skins taking Tyson Jackson DE from LSU. Thoughts? He doesn't sound like a stud pass rusher but probably a good run stopper who'd solidify the edge opposite Carter.

Posted by: skinswest | April 6, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Either Colt or Collins is taking a spot that could be used for a young lineman.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009"

You always have three 1 up, 1 on deck and one in the hole. The third QB is a "special" inactive who I guess can be activated should you lose the first two.

That's NFL wide I believe.

As for "using a spot". That would be guys like the DE and former 1st rounder that Vinne signed. The guy who could never even make it out on the practice field ... yet Blache as stuck with him.

Vinnie is just a tad less than mediocre when it comes to player personnnel.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

He said he had a hip flexor injury during the reg. season with us affecting his punting?? I don't remember that.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 12:06 PM

He was injured with the hip flexor. The 'Skins brought in another punter -- Plunkymyer. They could have put Brooks on IR and he'd still be a Redskin. Instead, they reached an injury settlement and cut him. Very short sighted, but considering Dan and Vinny, for whom "patience" means think twice, and "the long run" means two weeks, it was relatively long sighted.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I thought Brooks was put on IR and given an injury settlement.

Why? Mabe because he was healthy after a few weeks?

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Prior to the draft and any potential M. Washington resigning, H. B. Blades (5' 10" 250) is penciled in as the starting strong side LB:

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/In_Third_Season__Blades_Could_Emerge_As_a_Starter_33382.jsp

Chris Wilson (6' 4"; 246) may also convert to the position. He would need to put on some pounds though.

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"If possible, we need to trade down or start trading next years picks.

YES, I SAID IT. TRADE NEXT YEARS PICKS.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009"

That's a Cerrato strategy ... and probably a good one in this case.

But there is ONE SMALL PROBLEM with that. Clearly Snidely's patience is completely gone, that is what I take from this year's offseason follies. He, and not Vinnie will be making the calls at the top of the draft ... will he allow Vinnie to trade down ... who will Snidely pick. Its downright scary ...

There there is the other SMALL PROBLEM, Vinnie isn't much better ... he behaves like he's Jim Bowden trying to resurrect injured or fraught with risk players to play for a team on a low budget. This team IS NOT LOW budget. Well, okay, it is now thanks to the salary cap ...

Sigh ...

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Chris Wilson (6' 4"; 246) may also convert to the position. He would need to put on some pounds though.

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009'

I believe that Wilson is both bigger and faster than Blades. This is linebacker we are talking about not defensive end.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

"truth

'...also the yankees can suck it seriously!!!'


Sucking is relative.

If your team brags it has four dominant pitchers and wins one ring in 10 years while they are on the team, that's the definition of sucking.

I remember the Braves LOSING to the Yanks in one of those World Series, BTW.

Hate on the Yanks all you want, my truthful friend, but when they, like Godzilla, come to your town, you and the braves will run like the rest of them do.


Posted by: MistaMoe |"


so many things to lol @ the Yankees for

lol @ the Yankees and their idiot fans supporting a team that CUTS OUT THE LITTLE GUYS and gives them less seats in order to make a new stadium with more luxury box seats. Duh!

lol @ the Yankees not winning the World SEries every single year with their ridiculous payroll. DUH!!!

lol @ the Yankees for naming themselves Yankees! DUH!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Prior to the draft and any potential M. Washington resigning, H. B. Blades (5' 10" 250) is penciled in as the starting strong side LB:

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/In_Third_Season__Blades_Could_Emerge_As_a_Starter_33382.jsp

Chris Wilson (6' 4"; 246) may also convert to the position. He would need to put on some pounds though.

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 12:22 PM

According to your post, there is only a 4 lb diference between the 2.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

The problem with any mock again, is that Snidely will ultimately both make the pick, and the call. So, don't be surprised if he picks a Sanchez should he be available.

In the end its all about who's available, who is more likely to make a big splash, and who is good at cajoling Snidley. I am hoping that Buges will be able to convince Snidely to pick Andre Smith if he is available. And if they trade down ... Eben Britton. For this team Smith is the best possible guy they could pick even over Orapko. But if for some reason Orapko is available because teams get skittish about his injury issues, look for Snidely the Owl to pick him.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

peri -

Exactly. That's what I said, Wilson converting to strongside, not Blades converting to DE (that would be a sight).

Wilson is bigger and faster than Blades, and he may be better able to shed TEs on the strongside.

H. B. is the same size as Fletch and a more natural middle linebacker.

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Yeah 4th, Im going off the Redskins roster stats for Blades and Wilson.

Maybe those numbers are wrong/out of date.

If the numbers are true, Wilson is much taller but, given the same weight, skinnier than Blades.

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

4th, while I don't think Betts "sucks," I do agree with you that the Skins could do better at No. 2 RB.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

anybody know who the current best team in baseball is?


OH IT'S DA BRAVOS

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

You're right. I used too strong of a word.

But he does sucks during key moments. I've said that for years, though. Which is what I remember when his name is mentioned. Which is why I used the word, initially.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

And are we talkin' 'bout kickers? Kickers? We talkin' 'bout kickers? Not trainers. Not cheerleaders. Not equipment managers. Kickers? Man, we talkin' 'bout kickers.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Doc Walker setting the record straight.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

lol @ learnedhand

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Assuming Crabtree is available at the #13 slot, what is acceptable compensation to the Skins (in draft picks) from other teams looking to move back or up in the first round?

Next question, what teams are willing to make a draft day splash for a stud #2 receiver like Crabtree? St. Louis (#2 overall, new coach big on D but no receivers), Chicago (no 1st but plenty after that), Iggles (2 - #1's), Tenn (bookend for Gage/Holt?), Baltimore (got to think the Ravns FO wants a toy for Flacco), Miami, San Diego, San Fran, Minnesota.....???

Wild speculation coupled with an incoherent Snyderato drafting strategy is fun.

Posted by: Holehoggin | April 6, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"Translation: "I hope he is the Skins QB of the future so we can kick their butts twice a year. Heh, heh."
Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 5, 2009 7:48 PM

He definitely didn't say that because Jason and the team beat them for the second time that season.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 5, 2009 7:55 PM |

"Said Jim Johnson, Eagles def coord., and generally considered one of the great defensive minds in the nFL: "Campbell is one of the best quarterbacks in the league."Translation: "I hope he is the Skins QB of the future so we can kick their butts twice a year. Heh, heh."Posted by: AntonChigurh |

That's his strategy? Didn't work too well last year, did it?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 6:47 AM |

What you overlook is that in the second game DeSean Jack dropped at least one game winning pass, possibly more. The Eagles should have flat out won that game. The game was a gift from the NFL gods to cancel out the gift the Rams got from the Redskins six weeks before. The Eagles, and Jim Johnson in particular, know that if Campbell is the Skins QB, then they can shut down their offense.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Not sure where this debate about Betts is coming from. We're lucky to have a reliable backup RB who can block, run, and catch. This is an era when you need two RBs who can start and produce. You can see all the clubs moving that way. Gibbs' crew saw Portis and Betts as practically interchangeable; the Zorn group see Betts as clearly second, which is why they want Portis on the field so much.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"With Cambell, he has to bring it back, stop it, and then bring it forward and release it. Campbell loses 1.7 seconds on average with this additional motion."
Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 5, 2009 7:41 PM

Can you prove this? I lost 4.4 seconds reading that nonsense.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 5, 2009 7:55 PM |

1.7 seconds? Come on Anton, you're talking shti here. If you don't like the kid, you don't like him, I'm not going to try to change your mind. But don't point to some nonsense you just made up to justify your position.

Posted by: mack1 | April 5, 2009 9:16 PM |

"Campbell loses 1.7 seconds on average with this additional motion."

Posted by: AntonChigurh

The same guy that attributed the offensive line woes to Campbell's apparent inability against the blitz (60.3% completion, 6.76 YPA, 8 TDs, 2 INTs, 90.5 rating) by stating that a majority of the sacks came from blitzes (14 sacks from blitzes vs. 24 sacks from non-blitzes) now apparently has the inside knowledge that Campbell "loses 1.7 seconds on average" due to his throwing motion. Shocker.

Posted by: psps23 | April 5, 2009 9:57 PM |

Doods. lol. I never intended for 1.7 to have a literal interpretation.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"What you overlook is that in the second game DeSean Jack dropped at least one game winning pass, possibly more." ~ Anton

AntonChigurh,

And what you have overlooked is that CP was one step away from breaking a 50 yard TD.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"The Eagles, and Jim Johnson in particular, know that if Campbell is the Skins QB, then they can shut down their offense.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009"

The Redskins, and Greg Blache (who may be one of the best defensive coordinators in football), know that even with All-Pro Donovan McNabb and All-Pro Brian Westbrook, they can beat the Philadelphia Eagles twice last score 10-3 if the defense is healthy and reasonably motivated.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

What you overlook is that in the second game DeSean Jack dropped at least one game winning pass, possibly more. The Eagles should have flat out won that game. The game was a gift from the NFL gods to cancel out the gift the Rams got from the Redskins six weeks before. The Eagles, and Jim Johnson in particular, know that if Campbell is the Skins QB, then they can shut down their offense.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 12:44 PM |

JC is 3-2 against the Eagles so your comment makes no sense, plus we scored 19 or more points in every game except for the 10-3 win last year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 6, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "The Eagles, and Jim Johnson in particular, know that if Campbell is the Skins QB, then they can shut down their offense."

Well, it seems to be you have to read a lot into Johnson's statement to come to that conclusion. Jackson did drop that pass, but that happens to every team. Truth is that was a very even game, as the stats reflect. The Skins shut down the Iggles' run game, and gave up only 213 yards passing, and that's a winning formula in most NFL games.

You could say the defense won it, and the offense didn't lose it.

Philly didn't really get hot until the next game, against Dallas, and carried it over to Minnesota and NY. I'm guessing the Cards were smart enough to look at that Washington game as part of their prep.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

AntonChigurh cut the Campbell slamming. Cutler is not as good. This you will see ... if anything Colt Brennan, based on his college stats and the ESPN college QB success potential rating system, would be a better choice over Cutler. Adding Leftwich to the mix could significantly improve that.

Bottom line: They are really okay at QB. One would think folks like you are the always impatient Snidely Owl, who dumps coaches and QBs like trophy wives.

Both Jason Campbell and Colt Brennan need time to develop. Byron Leftwich has had 46 NFL starts, Campbell only 36. Cutler has around 48 NFL starts.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Back to kicking...

I think the problems Suisham had with long distance accuracy were due to poor footwork and terrible blocking on the line -- the holder seemed fine to me.

Both Suisham and Danny Smith should have been fired...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"Philly didn't really get hot until the next game, against Dallas, and carried it over to Minnesota and NY. I'm guessing the Cards were smart enough to look at that Washington game as part of their prep.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009"

Philly got completely shutdown by the NFL's 4th ranked defense with nothing to lose and only pride to play for.

Unlike Clinton Portis when they said they were going to do something, they did it.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I think the skins should draft a kicker this year in the draft to compete with Suisham.

Posted by: JBaker76 | April 6, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

So I'm just saying I don't see any justification for arbitrarily saying that Jim Johnson meant the exact opposite of what he said.

I'm willing to take him at his word.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Need for OT is glaring..Then lb and de..So Danny will draft a QB or WR..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I like the Wilson experiment at SLB. I think he has better speed than H.B. Blades; who was non-existent as a zone blitzer.

The question is: can he cover TEs and RBs in space?

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The question is: can he cover TEs and RBs in space?

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 1:04 PM

That would depend on who had the fastest jet pack. Zero gravity negates speed.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

If John Hall is your "proven" kicker, then that would explain the Redskins' troubles. He was a great tackler for a kicker, but he was hurt a good portion of the time and he couldn't hit 40-plus yard field goals. And the Redskins paying him a decent salary proves nothing. They've given plenty of good money to bad players.

And for those who fail to see the importance of a kicker who makes his field goals, do not forget that they make up a good portion of a team's total points for a season. They can determine outcomes for games. Look at recent Super Bowls.

Posted by: corky1031 | April 6, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

So I'm just saying I don't see any justification for arbitrarily saying that Jim Johnson meant the exact opposite of what he said.

I'm willing to take him at his word.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 1:01 PM

What difference could it possibly make? I would regard it as random noise and ignore it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Redskins will draft a QB (maybe Sanchez) Campbell will be traded... Leftwich could be brought in as the "backup" but in the event Vin/Dan get what they want he will start until he flounders paving the way for Sanchez to start by week 5

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

back in the day we had David Akers....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | April 6, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

If Wilson (6'4" 246) works out at SAM that would be awesome, but we should prepare as if it is a work in progress, and not a sure thing.

We need O Line, Lb's, De's and DB's.

I also am intrigued with Greg Carr (6'6" 216) from Florida State as a 6th rounder. He's a PROSPECT, but averaged 17 yards a catch. At 6'6" he could become that first down making touchdown catching threat we've been looking for. Who's gonna cover a guy who is 6'6" and can catch the ball down field when he's running outs and fades?

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Redskins will draft a QB (maybe Sanchez) Campbell will be traded... Leftwich could be brought in as the "backup" but in the event Vin/Dan get what they want he will start until he flounders paving the way for Sanchez to start by week 5

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 1:11 PM

Only if Snyder and Ceratto are blithering idiots.

Matt Hasselbeck had a 78.1 QB rating the first year Zorn started coaching him. He went to 3 Pro-Bowls afterwards under Zorn.

Having failed in the Second Edition of the Ocho Stinko Episode, why would they turn the keys over to yet another QB castoff (no one wanted him) who's never worked with Zorn? Then plan to turn the keys over to a rookie?

I can't imagine anyone who would fathom such a scenario, except someone posting under the name "BenchCampbell".

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

mhartz

'...I really dont want Rey...'

I like Rey Maualga more than Cushing.

But what we have to hope for is that the FO drafts for need.

The skins could use some depth and speed at all 'backer spots.

But if they take the best player availiable route, well, all our hopes are crushed.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

'...So Danny will draft a QB or WR...'


Between a quarterback and wide receiver, who do you think they'll snag/

I say Sanchez is gone and they'll take anyone from the mix of Harvin/Maclin/Crabtree.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Rey Maualga more than Cushing

How about neither. I'd rather take Ayers.

Neither Rey, nor Cushing played past 2nd down at USC. 3rd down both came off the field. No thanks.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Doods. lol. I never intended for 1.7 to have a literal interpretation.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM

Then that is precisely stupidish.

Posted by: mack1 | April 6, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Only if Snyder and Ceratto are blithering idiots.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 1:20 PM

Are there still people who are unconvinced?

I used to be undecided about this, but I'm in the "Snyder and Ceratto ARE blithering idiots" camp after last week. (But I want to point out that I'm in this camp in spite of Cork, not because of Cork.)

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

But, a team with a starting QB out for the season (ala Tom Brady last year) will more likely part with a 2010 first rounder for JC if they have lost their starter and their backup is questionable or the Skins package a 2nd or 3rd rounder with JC in the transaction (more likely). ... That first rounder could become a Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jevan Snead or McCoy ...

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 5, 2009 9:29 PM |

Seriously doubt that the Skins will ever get a 1st round pick for Campbell under any conditions. You only see a FO as desperate as the Bears' once in a Blue Moon. But maybe a 2nd under the kind of scenario you mention. Bradford is the only respectable QB on your list. Tebow is not an NFL QB. But other good QBs will emerge during the 2009 college footbal season.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The kicking game is an interesting case to evaluate the performance of the FO and the coaching staff. You have to do enough tea-leaf reading to make any sort of guess as to what they were and are thinking, but ignorance has never stopped me before.
A few points to consider:
1. We're set at long snapper.
2. Your holder almost has to be the punter in a 53-man roster; while 2nd string QB is tempting, the moment your starter goes down you have to scramble to find someone else, and the QBs have enough to do during the week without taking time to hold. That goes for someone like Randle El as well.
3. At some level, your kicker is going to be a compromise choice between distance for kickoffs, accuracy, and reliability. Some teams don't mind the dropoff in accuracy beyond 40 yds. as long as you never miss from close in.
4. Snapper --> holder --> Kicker is not a trivial job.

So where was the weakness last year? Not at snapper, as far as I can tell. Holder is a bit harder to tell -- I don't remember any absolute, pure failures. Suisham definitely struggled late -- I didn't chart his kicks, but it seemed like everything was going right of where he intended it. That goes for kickoffs too.

So here's where the tea-leaf reading comes in. I think the Teams people got rid of Plackemeier because he wasn't any better than average on punts, and he wasn't clicking with Suisham. Suisham's performance was bad enough that, unless they thought it was a fixable problem, there'd be someone on the roster to "really" challenge for the job.
I'll toss out a golf analogy -- usually, a slice indicates that there's something wrong with your swing; but sometimes, a new set of clubs still helps.

Posted by: daggar | April 6, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tim_layden/01/13/tebow/

AntonChigurh-

If I have to choose between you thinking Tebow is not an NFL QB and Bill Belichick. You lose. Google Tebow Belichick and see what comes up. I said this before, Bill Belichick was at a few gator games this year, there was a reason why. Your ignorance is showing.
Tebow will be an NFL QB. Watch.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | April 6, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Evidently Zorny forgot to tell Danny how good JC was going to become when Danny was jonesing for Cutty.

Face it Danny now has a reality check that JC aint wanted by anyone in the NFL except as an expensive back-up.
Leftwich came in yesterday with his 104 QB rating to audition as a Starter..not backing up a QB that wasnt worth a 2nd round when dangled last week.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matt Hasselbeck had a 78.1 QB rating the first year Zorn started coaching him. He went to 3 Pro-Bowls afterwards under Zorn.

I can't imagine anyone who would fathom such a scenario, except someone posting under the name "BenchCampbell".

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 1:20 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Need for OT is glaring..Then lb and de..So Danny will draft a QB or WR..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 1:01 PM |

Painfully true.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Colt McCoy and Jevan Snead are also worth taking a looking at.

Sam Bradford had inflated numbers due to Oklahoma keeping him in throughout most games when they were already crushing opponents.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | April 6, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

beantown

'...Neither Rey, nor Cushing played past 2nd down at USC. 3rd down both came off the field. No thanks....'


They weren't on the field after second down as they were on a team loaded with used to be high school All-Americans that Pete Carroll had to get some playing time or they transfer--'cuz that's how Division 1 football operates.

I doubt very seriously that either guy would be rated high just because they were a 1 or 2 down player.

Nothing against Ayres, but for him to play, who does Blatche sit: Andre Carter? Rob Jackson--a guy Vinny says he wants to see play? Daniels? Wynn?

The argue against taking a slb is that C. Wilson might be a player at the spot.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Anybody remember that the Redskins had a kicker named Akers? He was cut after a few games. Yes he was then picked up by the Eagles and has been their franchise All Pro kicker since.

Posted by: ipesq | April 6, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Greg Blache (who may be one of the best defensive coordinators in football) ...

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM |

That may be but answer me this. Why would there be this on Hog Heaven in a post mortem analysis of the Skins' 2008 loss to the Steelers?

"Greg Blache got flat outcoached by Bruce Arians at halftime ... "

I never heard the name "Bruce Arians" and "brilliant OC" used in the same sentence.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

This idea is from a reliable middle aged drunk at Hooters last night....

The Skins should tank it in 2009 for the First pick in 2010!! Brilliant.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

gatorskin

'.... Sam Bradford had inflated numbers due to Oklahoma keeping him in throughout most games when they were already crushing opponents...'


Don't go by the accumulated numbers.

Watch, in the national championship game, how Bradford fit tight spirals into the tight coverage Janoris Jenkins had on the Sooner's' wide outs to his side.

The ball leaves his hand very quickly. He had the gators' rush in his face and still got rid of the ball in time. In that game, he threw several passes that went right to a spot where only his guy could catch them.

The guy is an accurate passer--that's why he's the class of next year's class.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Didnt know this.. Who made that bonehead move?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Anybody remember that the Redskins had a kicker named Akers? He was cut after a few games. Yes he was then picked up by the Eagles and has been their franchise All Pro kicker since.

Posted by: ipesq | April 6, 2009 1:46 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

"And the Redskins paying him a decent salary proves nothing. They've given plenty of good money to bad players."

It proves the Redskins haven't been ignoring those positions, as some posters here insinuate. They've gone a number of different routes, from the draft to veterans to unknown guys and beyond. It hasn't worked out. It's the nature of the position. One year, you've got a guy that hits 100% of his field goals during the regular season, two years later, he's been cut by two different teams (speaking on Mike Vanderjagt). You've just got to get lucky at some point.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Beantown,

I agree. I would rather take Aaron Maybin or Ayers over the USC backers.

My hope is that Chris Wilson will own in coverage at the SAM LB. He's got the height to cover tall TEs and has quick feet.

Golston still hasn't signed....?

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

moe, according to Mike Lombardi at NFL Network, they came off the field on 3rd downs, because they have the necessary skill-set to stay out there. He wasn't mincing words, or anything like that. He was pretty blunt about how he didn't know if they would cut it on 3rd down in the pro's........

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Evidently Zorny forgot to tell Danny how good JC was going to become when Danny was jonesing for Cutty.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 1:40 PM

The Skins are destined to remain mediocre as long as they pursue everyone else's players instead of developing their own.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"Leftwich came in yesterday with his 104 QB rating to audition as a Starter.."

...and subsequently left without a contract offer. Yep, really shows how bad Danny wants to rid himself of Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Before everybody gets excited about next years qb prospects there is one thing you should keep in mind. Texas, Florida, and Oklahoma run versions of the spread offense. How many spread qbs have transitioned successfully into the league? I think Snead from Ole Miss will be a decent pro, im not too sure about the rest. qb is not as easy when you arent in the shotgun all the time and/or run gimmick offenses. Scouts have learned this, thats why Tebow is projected to be a tight end in the league.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | April 6, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Where is Mike Venader-JAck Daniels now? He was a great kicker before the cowgirls signed him.

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | April 6, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Where is Mike Vander-Jack Daniels now? He was a great kicker before the cowgirls signed him.

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | April 6, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

One reason why the Skins' FO was tripped up in their master plan to acquire Cutler was a little inconvenience called logic. Their plan called for Campbell to be part of a package that would be put together in exchange for Cutler. But they overlooked the possibility that other teams would look at this and say to themselves "if the Skins are so eager to get rid of Campbell can he really be worth that much?" and this pretty much scuttled any chance the Skins had of making a deal.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I have trouble understanding the strategy of emptying the bank to sign Haynesworth, and then blowing it up by getting rid of your QB, drafting a junior one year starter like Sanchez who is NO sure thing, and starting over.

I know logic is optional with our FO, but doesn't it make more sense to build up O line dominance? It is far less risky for two reasons:

1. Campbell is in a contract year, his fourth year on the field and second in the same system. It is not outlandish to think he could have a break out season with some O-line help and second year receivers advancing. If he does, you have your answer. If he doesn't, we can move on with no cap implications at all.

2. Next years draft looks much more promising for QB's, so we will have excellent options waiting for us. And by starting to address the line this year, that QB will inherit a better situation than the one we are in now.

Fix the line. Give Campbell this chance.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Didnt know this.. Who made that bonehead move?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Anybody remember that the Redskins had a kicker named Akers? He was cut after a few games. Yes he was then picked up by the Eagles and has been their franchise All Pro kicker since.

Posted by: ipesq | April 6, 2009 1:46 PM |

That happened in 1998 or 1999. He may have only played 1 game for the Skins.

Posted by: ipesq | April 6, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

anton

'...You only see a FO as desperate as the Bears' once in a Blue Moon...'


It's hard to hate on the bears as they have a team that got to the super bowl recently with Rex Grossman running things.

The bears' FO probably looked at their team and thought, "Hey, we're the stillers without Big Ben. Let's go get Cutty--he'll be our Big Ben."

They were able to make a deal as they had the picks and the vision to see that Cutler doesn't have to amass 4,500 yards to win in Chi-Town--just make the throws he needs to make when they need to be made.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

One reason why the Skins' FO was tripped up in their master plan to acquire Cutler was a little inconvenience called logic. Their plan called for Campbell to be part of a package that would be put together in exchange for Cutler. But they overlooked the possibility that other teams would look at this and say to themselves "if the Skins are so eager to get rid of Campbell can he really be worth that much?" and this pretty much scuttled any chance the Skins had of making a deal.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 2:02 PM

This doesn't sound like very good reasoning to me. Wouldn't the SAME logic apply to taking Orten as well? "If the Bears are so eager to get rid of Kyle..."

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse


"Leftwich came in yesterday with his 104 QB rating to audition as a Starter.."

...and subsequently left without a contract offer. Yep, really shows how bad Danny wants to rid himself of Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 2:00 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No, actually Dan showed how much he wanted to dump JC when he was shopping him around the league as a 2nd round pick value last Wednesday/Thursday.


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"and then blowing it up by getting rid of your QB, drafting a junior one year starter like Sanchez who is NO sure thing, and starting over"

except that what you're talking about above DIDN'T HAPPEN....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

AntonChigurh,

And what you have overlooked is that CP was one step away from breaking a 50 yard TD.

Posted by: matthewvickers | April 6, 2009 12:52 PM |

He was always "step away from breaking a 50 yard TD" last year and how many ever materialized? Zilch.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

'...How many spread qbs have transitioned successfully into the league?'


Excellent point.

But if more NFL teams are playing spread-lite systems (shot gun, 3/4 wideout sets), how is a future problem?

Matt Leinhart played 4 years in a pro style attack at USC. How's he doing?

Vince Young played in a spread style attack at Texas. How's he doing?

Maybe the system argument is just that.

I'd judge the quarterback by release, decision-making, accuracy, arm strenght, and the ability to put the ball to a spot where only his guy can get it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

"No, actually Dan showed how much he wanted to dump JC when he was shopping him around the league as a 2nd round pick value last Wednesday/Thursday.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM"

Yet Campbell's name still appears on the roster. Funny how those things work out. Given multiple opportunities to bring in a new starter, and seeing as how Snyder is so evidently adamant about ridding himself of Campbell, you would have thought he was gone a month ago.

But alas, here we are with Campbell's name topping the depth chart. No Cutler, no Leftwich, no Warner, no Collins, no "placeholder" for a prospectively drafted QB, nothing. Just Campbell and his usual suspects backing him up. And when the draft comes and goes with no QB's name called for the Redskins, my guess is you'll still be on here claiming that Snyder wants to get rid of Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

After reviewing the particulars of Chicago offense, I've concluded:

JC17 will have more yards AND as many (or more) TDs this year than Cutler, as Cutler learns the new (and weaker) offense in Chicago. Cutler will continue to have more interceptions than JC17.

Bet on it.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

anton, you're basing your argument on the Philly/Redskins game on something that "ALMOST" happened. Jackson ALMOST made that catch. But. He. Didn't.

Is there an asterisk next to that game in the record books, for "almost" winning it??

Let it go.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The guy is an accurate passer--that's why he's the class of next year's class.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 1:52 PM

I'm not saying he isnt good, but if you noticed in that game Tebow took over the 4th quarter. I didnt see Bradford do that. I didnt see the leadership and the ability to improve everyone around him. I also didnt see Bradford run over safeties 15 yards down field. He also didnt have 100 yards rushing, which Tebow did. Tebow still completed 60% of his passes. Bradford had roughly 20 more passing yards.

If you want to go for a pure passer, Bradford has him beat, if you want the COMPLETE player, Tebow takes that one.

I will say I am biased, I was at the SEC Championship Game where Tebow took that game over in the 4th as well. I was at the NC game too. That and I am obviously a Gator Fan. The last time I wanted the Redskins to get a player from the Gators, it was Emmitt. I was devastated when he went to the Cowboys.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | April 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Bean -

I was referring to the "trade Campbell for a draft pick, then move up to take Sanchez" talk that still persists here.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I think Danny showed his feelings about Campbell when he decided not to extend him during the offseason.

But let's face it, Danny doesn't really know he's doing or what he wants.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"no Collins"

Oops, there is a Collins. I meant no Kerry Collins, not the good ole' TC.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I still say the Bears got chumped on this this deal and that ultimately Bolen is going to look like a genius. Three (2 firsts) picks and a starting QB? OK, starting by default, but still, Orton didn't make a lot of mistakes.

I think Cutler will struggle this year behind a fairly mediocre line with no real targets and that somewhere mid-year he'll start to blame others for the lack of production. The Bears will finish 8-8 amid in fighting back stabbing and Lovey will pay the price for Jaerry Angelo's folly.

Meanwhile, the Broncs can draft defensive studs, overhaul the approach defensively and about midway next season will look like a possible dynasty. And Orton will put up good, not great, numbers behind a great line with good targets and they'll win 10 games.

Posted by: LarryBud | April 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Back to the actual subject of this post: has anyone else noticed that the Skins have kept messing this up since Norv. Scott Blanton? 58-year-old Eddie Murray?

Part of the problem has always been offensive consistency. the Jimmy Johnson-era Cowgirls, for example, plugged in mediocre K/Ps like Lin Elliot, Boniol, etc., and paid them league minimum and used the money on things that count, like the offensive line. Or people who could get separation from a DB without throwing them to the ground.

Gano would be awesome. Someone who made everything from 40 in would be just fine. Put that idiot kicker Vanderjact through rehab and bring him in. But don't for god's sake let Vinny draft anyone.

Posted by: BabeLaufenberg | April 6, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

This organization is crazy! So are they admitting that signing T. Collins was a mistake? Can we piss off every QB on the team in a span of 5 days???

Posted by: jtrob_1 | April 6, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Should say that the Broncs will look like a possible dynasty in '10-'11.

Posted by: LarryBud | April 6, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

gatorskin

'...I didnt see the leadership and the ability to improve everyone around him (Bradford)....'


In your analysis, you left out the one player who truly dominated that game: Percy Harvin.

Take Harvin's long runs out of that game, and you have a different game.

Like every redskins blogga, I want the team to draft for need and add either a tackle or linebacker or defensive end with the 13th pick.

But if a 'mistake' is to be made by the skins' FO, I would hope that Harvin is it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

UPDATED OF TOP 30 REDSKINS AND THEIR FUTURE

Top 30 Skins -- and if will they be here beyond 2 years:

DL (6 guys)
Albert, Yes
Carter, No (overpaid)
Golston, Borderline (not signed)
Griffin, No (age)
Wynn, No (age)
Daniels No (age)

LB (3 guys)
Blades, Borderline
Fletcher, No (age)
Rocky, Yes

DB (5 guys)
Horton, Yes
Landry, Yes
Hall, Yes
Rogers, Yes
Smoot, No

OL (6 guys)
Jansen, No
Thomas, No
Rabach, Yes
Dockery, Yes
Samuels, Borderline (age)
Heyer, No

TE
Cooley, Yes

QB (2 guys)
Campbell, Borderline
Collins, No (age)

RB (2 guys)
Portis, Borderline (age)
Sellers, No

WR (3 guys)
Moss, Borderline (age)
ARE, Borderline
Thomas, Borderline

Teams (2 guys)
P No
K No


I get:
Yes: 9 (previously 11)
Yes: 8 (borderline previously 6)
No: 13

Updated for signings of Wynn, Daniels, near trade of Campbell.

Best potential for moving into top 30 include Montgomery, Alexander, Kareem Moore, Rock and Betts.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I just found that Peter King inside-trading article about Cutler, and level whatever charge you want against Campell, I would start Helen Keller over Kyle Orton. Nothing like a rookie coach weighing in on personnel matters. Bad trade all around.

Posted by: jakfish | April 6, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Yet Campbell's name still appears on the roster. Funny how those things work out. Given multiple opportunities to bring in a new starter, and seeing as how Snyder is so evidently adamant about ridding himself of Campbell, you would have thought he was gone a month ago.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 2:15 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My point exactly, Danny found out like everyone else on this Blog has reiterated.. No one wants JC for more than a 3rd round pick. He's a great kid..but a lousy leader. And his learning curve with a new OC went down (2-6 last 8 games) not up. His reaction when told he was being shopped for a Cutler package last week was predictable.. No fire, no anger. Just like he is on the sidelines when losing.. No fire, no anger never gets in the faces of his WR's or OL like the great QB's who take over a game when losing. Peyton and Brady do that, Favre did that.. Cutler does it.. Its a "I want to win" competitive drive that doesnt dissappear after you're signed to a mega million dollar contract.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

alan4

You are aware that the bears team folks are hating on went 9-7 and just missed the playoffs with Orton running things.

Insert Cutler, and what, they get 2 more wins?

11-5 should be wild card at least, Cutler's diminshed stats notwithstanding.

Any way you look at it, the bears did themselves a favor, while the skins' FO peed on the leg of the one guy they could count on--Jason Campbell.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

edvar, just cuz TE keeps saying they're trading up for Sanchez, doesn't mean its gonna happen.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Overall, the list above should give a rational basis for planning the teams moves. Given the list, its pretty clear that a lot of turnover is coming. This team needs to focus on how to go through this transition. Which is why the Cutler trade attempt made so little sense.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

UPDATED OF TOP 30 REDSKINS AND THEIR FUTURE

Top 30 Skins -- and if will they be here beyond 2 years:

DL (6 guys)
Haynesworth, Yes
Carter, No (overpaid)
Golston, Yes/Borderline (not signed)
Montgomery, Yes
Griffin, No (age)
Wynn, No (age)
Daniels No (age)
Jackson borderline (linebacker?)
Wilson borderline (linebacker?

LB (3 guys)
Blades, Yes (MLB backup
possible starter)
Fletcher, No (age)
Rocky, No (age/injuries will catch up)

DB (5 guys)
Horton, Yes
Landry, Yes
Hall, Yes
Rogers, borderline (will they pay him?)
Smoot, No

OL (6 guys)
Jansen, No
Thomas, No
Rabach, Borderline (possible future backup)
Dockery, Yes, (possible future backup)
Samuels, Yes, RT->backup (age)
Heyer, yes (swingman, backup)

TE
Cooley, Yes
Davis, Borderline
Yoder, Mo.

QB (2 guys)
Campbell, Borderline (mgmt decision)
Brennan, Borderline (mgmt decision)
Collins, No (age)

RB (2 guys)
Portis, Borderline (age)
Sellers, Yes
Betts, Yes
Cartwright, No.

WR (3 guys)
Moss, Borderline (age)
ARE, No.
Thomas, Borderline
Kelly, No (injuries)

Teams (2 guys)
P No
K No

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

peri -- seems like a similar list, similar conclusion. Lots of turnover to come.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to Chirs Clemons and Lemar Marshall?

Posted by: FedorEm | April 6, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

clemons plays for philly, and Marshall is out of the league....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Bean. We had all kinds of LB depth back in those days.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 6, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Great post below.. I can see why the Skins are now considered on the same level as the Texans and Lions over the last 17 years. We are now the new Cardinals!!!
The last time a great franchise declined to a level this low was the sad demise of the San Francisco dynasty in the 90's. Who was in that Front Office??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

UPDATED OF TOP 30 REDSKINS AND THEIR FUTURE

Top 30 Skins -- and if will they be here beyond 2 years:

DL (6 guys)
Haynesworth, Yes
Carter, No (overpaid)
Golston, Yes/Borderline (not signed)
Montgomery, Yes
Griffin, No (age)
Wynn, No (age)
Daniels No (age)
Jackson borderline (linebacker?)
Wilson borderline (linebacker?

LB (3 guys)
Blades, Yes (MLB backup
possible starter)
Fletcher, No (age)
Rocky, No (age/injuries will catch up)

DB (5 guys)
Horton, Yes
Landry, Yes
Hall, Yes
Rogers, borderline (will they pay him?)
Smoot, No

OL (6 guys)
Jansen, No
Thomas, No
Rabach, Borderline (possible future backup)
Dockery, Yes, (possible future backup)
Samuels, Yes, RT->backup (age)
Heyer, yes (swingman, backup)

TE
Cooley, Yes
Davis, Borderline
Yoder, Mo.

QB (2 guys)
Campbell, Borderline (mgmt decision)
Brennan, Borderline (mgmt decision)
Collins, No (age)

RB (2 guys)
Portis, Borderline (age)
Sellers, Yes
Betts, Yes
Cartwright, No.

WR (3 guys)
Moss, Borderline (age)
ARE, No.
Thomas, Borderline
Kelly, No (injuries)

Teams (2 guys)
P No
K No

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 2:34 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Clemons had 8 sacks in Oakland in 07. We could have used 8 sacks last year.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 6, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

MEMORY LANE:

I recommend MIKE BRAGG punter, University of Richmond and MARK MOSELEY as field goal kicker. Straightahead-type but good potential.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 6, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Which teams that aren't west coast offenses are needing QB's across the league?
You would think they'd be lighting up the phone lines to Redskins park trying to get Jason Campbell wouldn't you? Since so many think he's great, even the D co-ordinator from Philly.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

When was Clemens allowed to leave?

Was he a casualty of the Washington signing or the McIntosh draft?

In any event, the skins would do well to find some keepers at linebacker in this draft phase.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"My point exactly, Danny found out like everyone else on this Blog has reiterated.. No one wants JC for more than a 3rd round pick. He's a great kid..but a lousy leader. And his learning curve with a new OC went down (2-6 last 8 games) not up. His reaction when told he was being shopped for a Cutler package last week was predictable.. No fire, no anger. Just like he is on the sidelines when losing.. No fire, no anger never gets in the faces of his WR's or OL like the great QB's who take over a game when losing. Peyton and Brady do that, Favre did that.. Cutler does it.. Its a "I want to win" competitive drive that doesnt dissappear after you're signed to a mega million dollar contract.Posted by: SkinsneedaGM"

So we should get rid of Campbell because he's calm under pressure? Becaue the team had a poor second half?

There's a QB story involving a legendary Super Bowl. A minute or so remaining, his team has the ball on their own 20, they've got to go all the way to win. The QB is standing by himself looking into the stands. The WR sees him, goes over and asks him what he's thinking about. It's not the score, the game plan, the need to win. The QB points at the stands: "Is that John Candy over there?" he asks the wide receiver. Then they go back to the huddle and Joe Montana leads them all the way down the field to The Catch.

Fiery, no. Berating his linemen or receivers, not at all. But a better QB than you'll see today? Definitely.


Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

According to Yahoo, Clemons was with us in 05, out of the league in 06, Oakland in 07 with 8 sacks, and Philly last year with 4 sacks. Not sure why we let him leave. I remember him playing hard.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 6, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Bill Walsh was once asked why scouts had so much trouble drafting QBs. He explained it's becuause they have no idea what it takes to play quarterback.

You think we do?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Mortgaging what was left of our future on Haynesworth may prove to be the biggest mistake yet...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

3 minutes, 91 yards, but the rest of the Joe Montana/John Candy story ... yup -- or so legend has it

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

CHIP LOHMILLER!!!

Posted by: CheyenneWY | April 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

benchcampbell

'...Mortgaging what was left of our future on Haynesworth may prove to be the biggest mistake yet...'


I hope Prince Al dominates, future, mortgage, and everything else involved.

I didn't like the pick either--it stinks too much of Stubblefield/Wilkinson for my taste--but he's on the team now, and I wish him all the best.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Recently, Skins mgmt was asked if they believe in Jason Campbell

Dan: I don't believe in Jason Campbell
Vinny: Whatever Dan says
Zorn: Before I answer that, what is today's date and who am I talking to?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Clemons had a knee injury (late in the season) with us and was out for the rest of the season AND the next following year.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"My point exactly, Danny found out like everyone else on this Blog has reiterated.. No one wants JC for more than a 3rd round pick."

You have no idea what Campbell was garnering as far as trade value. Campbell was never traded, thus there was no indication for what we would have received. For all we know, Cleveland was offering a 1st rounder in value for Campbell. What we DO know is that it would have taken more than 2 first round picks, a third round pick, AND a starting QB to land Cutler.

"And his learning curve with a new OC went down (2-6 last 8 games) not up."

Yep. So did Clinton Portis, Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, Chris Samuels, Mike Sellers, Antwaan Randle El, Ladell Betts, Pete Kendall, Casey Rabach, and Todd Yoder, among others. That doesn't make every one of them desirable to trade.

"His reaction when told he was being shopped for a Cutler package last week was predictable.."

And now it's become better to be less of professional when faced with adverse moments...

"Favre did that.."

Please, name the last time Brett Favre was seen yelling or chewing out a teammate on the field or on the sideline. I dare you to provide me with that example. Favre NEVER did those types of things. Ever.

"Cutler does it.."

And was subsequently shipped out of town at the behest and recommendation of his very own head coach.

"Its a "I want to win" competitive drive that doesnt dissappear after you're signed to a mega million dollar contract."

And if anybody displays this mentality, it's the guy that spends countless hours training and studying when nobody else is visible. Not the guy that blows up every time something goes wrong and doesn't have the levelheadedness to continue playing at a consistent level.

We are all blinded by our biases and assumptions. But it's clear to me that nothing you mentioned has any substance to back it up, whatsoever. Plain and simple subjective bias. A judgment of "attitude" and "mentality" of which you have zero idea with regards to Campbell, as you have never been in a huddle, on the sideline, in a meeting, in a conversation with him, or inside his thoughts. You can keep reaching with those "arguments", but they show nothing other than your own assumptions.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

3 minutes, 91 yards, but the rest of the Joe Montana/John Candy story ... yup -- or so legend has it

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 2:58 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We got Hanna Montana...

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

sign Leftwich NOW! sign derrick brooks (minimum salary) for mentorship and depth eliminating urgent need at LB. I was more impressed with (bring the pain) Fincher than any of our LB's after our pro bowl caliber mlb. if a dominant OL is not available at 13, use the pick do not trade back; get the best available at a need position including wr (no QB needed). this is JC's year barring injury and OL help. HAIL SKINS!

Posted by: jenksredskins | April 6, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"Mortgaging what was left of our future on Haynesworth may prove to be the biggest mistake yet...

Posted by: BenchCampbell"

Maybe you can help me understand this. How many draft picks were given up to get Haynesworth?

What's his cap number this year?

How will he affect the cap in the future?

Exactly what was compromised by the signing of Haynesworth?

If you can accurately answer those questions, you'll realize your previous statement makes little sense.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

edvar, just cuz TE keeps saying they're trading up for Sanchez, doesn't mean its gonna happen.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:32 PM

Oh! I thought he was the new GM. Well that's comforting to know.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

psp, were you looking for him to use logic, cuz, thats just not happening.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I never understand why the Skins never try to sign Garcia for cheap- he's a former Pro Bowl WC offense scrambler, who makes your weak o-line look better by avoiding the sack. An excellent backup..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Own a very stupid looking piece of Redskin's history.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/1104088192.html

Posted by: mack1 | April 6, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Plus Garcia could be a good mentor for the similarly styled Colt..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,
I don't want to sound like I ingested too much Haterade, but here are some Broncos facts:

(2006-8) 17-20 Jay Cutler
(2003-5) 33-15 Jake Plummer
(2002) 9-7 Brian Griese

Why should I believe Cutler would buy the Bears two more wins this year?

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

talentevaluator: "What difference could it possibly make? I would regard it as random noise and ignore it."

What? Now you're telling people what they can listen to?

Those talents of yours must be expanding exponentially...

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

edvar, just cuz TE keeps saying they're trading up for Sanchez, doesn't mean its gonna happen.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 2:32 PM

Gosh, Greg, I finally convince one guy and you have to come along with your Tough Reality?

When it comes to these predictions I am often wrong, never in doubt. I am convinced they will TRY to trade up to grab him. I think the odds of them succeeding are no more than 25%.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Garcia would be a good pickup. That guy is a gamer.

Posted by: FedorEm | April 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

shoot.....sorry.....10,000 bonus points coming your way to make up for it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

"What difference could it possibly make? I would regard it as random noise and ignore it."

What? Now you're telling people what they can listen to?

Those talents of yours must be expanding exponentially...

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 3:15 PM

No, I don't tell people what they can listen to. I told what I would listen to. But can you please answer the question -- what difference does it make?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

shoot.....sorry.....10,000 bonus points coming your way to make up for it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:17 PM

Now I'm insulted. That was worth way more than 10,000 bonus points. 25,000, at least.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Garcia does seem to make more sense than Leftwich.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"Mortgaging what was left of our future on Haynesworth may prove to be the biggest mistake yet...

Posted by: BenchCampbell"

Maybe you can help me understand this. How many draft picks were given up to get Haynesworth?

What's his cap number this year?

How will he affect the cap in the future?

Exactly what was compromised by the signing of Haynesworth?

If you can accurately answer those questions, you'll realize your previous statement makes little sense.

Posted by: psps23

Haynesworth eats up a very large chunk of cap space now and over the next few years, if there is cap (can't assume one thing or the other here).

In 2009, we're quite close to the cap limit. This means we can't go after other players that might be valuable. It also means we let go some useful players because we needed to be very careful with cap room. And it means other, unproductive players remain on the roster. Useful guys let go include Shawn Springs and Jason Taylor. Value players we didn't keep or are at risk with include Demetric Evans, who went elsewhere and Kedric Golston who is unsigned. Those were our 2 best DL last year. We haven't been able to get out from under contacts like Andre Carter or John Jansen, two guys who make a ton more than they are worth.

This cap squeeze, which is status quo, has resulted in plenty of poor decisions over the past several years and is likely to continue to do so.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Garcia does seem to make more sense than Leftwich.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 3:24 PM

Yes, but remember the theory with Cutler was that they'd grab him this year, then Shanahan next year. (I thought that was a stupid theory, but it's just zany enough to be true).

So, if we grab Leftwich this year, then we grab Jack Del Rio next year? No? Mike Tomlin next year!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Garcia just signed with the Raiders.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,
I don't want to sound like I ingested too much Haterade, but here are some Broncos facts:

(2006-8) 17-20 Jay Cutler
(2003-5) 33-15 Jake Plummer
(2002) 9-7 Brian Griese

Why should I believe Cutler would buy the Bears two more wins this year?

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:15 PM

To elaborate, Shanahan handed a 7-4 team to Cutler when he demoted and eventually traded Jake Plummer to the Bucs--one year after Plummer had a streak of 229 passes without an interception (sound a little familiar?). The team finished 9-7.

Cutler went 2-3 for the Broncos as he learned a new system.

He will be learning another new system this year with the Bears.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

psp, were you looking for him to use logic, cuz, thats just not happening.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:11 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You and psp are in huge denial (or related to JC).. Think about it.. Here is an employer who has not only invested millions into an employee for the last 4 years but also gave up 3 Draft picks to obtain him in 2005..

Now this same employer tried unsuccessfully to shop him for a second round pick. Thats 31 other GM's that know JC is highly over-rated. Its the primary reason the Skins went 2-6 the last part of the year and scored less points than a winless team.

Quote From NFL.Com

The Post updated its initial report by saying the Redskins offered Campbell to an undisclosed team for a second-round draft pick. The Redskins are believed to be acquiring picks to build a package for Cutler. That could indicate that the Broncos don’t want Campbell and might be comfortable with Chris Simms or a rookie in the upcoming draft as their starter.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

My point exactly, Danny found out like everyone else on this Blog has reiterated.. No one wants JC for more than a 3rd round pick. He's a great kid..but a lousy leader. And his learning curve with a new OC went down (2-6 last 8 games) not up. His reaction when told he was being shopped for a Cutler package last week was predictable.. No fire, no anger. Just like he is on the sidelines when losing.. No fire, no anger never gets in the faces of his WR's or OL like the great QB's who take over a game when losing. Peyton and Brady do that, Favre did that.. Cutler does it.. Its a "I want to win" competitive drive that doesnt dissappear after you're signed to a mega million dollar contract.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Was Montana fiery? Did he get all in his receivers' face? I am NOT saying Campbell is Montana. What I am saying is that fiery attitude that is always touted as a necessity isn't actually one. I do agree that he should be fiery, but remember wasn't Ryan Leaf fiery?

Posted by: moosepod | April 6, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

He will be learning another new system this year with the Bears.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:29 PM

This is the Bears. You're telling me that their offense has a "system"? Is this something new they're getting for Cutler?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Committing $15M a year to Haynesworth most certainly is sacrificing future freedom and acquisitions.

No matter whether you think it was the right move or not, he is a huge draw on our resources.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

TE, the "new system" is one where the receivers aren't very good and the O-line is suspect. I didn't say it was a credible system, just a new one.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"Thats 31 other GM's that know JC is highly over-rated. Its the primary reason the Skins went 2-6 the last part of the year and scored less points than a winless team"

Couple things:

1. You can't list 31 GM's, because not 31 teams are looking for a QB. Was Indy? How about NE. NYG, PHilly, Dallas, I mean off the top of my head there are 5 teams not looking for a qb.

2. If you think the 2-6 2nd half of the year was exclusively on Campbell, then you've got quite the large axe to grind.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Committing $15M a year to Haynesworth most certainly is sacrificing future freedom and acquisitions.

No matter whether you think it was the right move or not, he is a huge draw on our resources.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 3:36 PM

They'll make that up on the back in. HAyneworth face will be around DC alot. Count me as one who will purchasing a Haynesworth Jersey (or if anyone is selling a D Evans jersey, I could just rip the name out).

And it's more like $12 Mil per year on average that he'll be making.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"This cap squeeze, which is status quo, has resulted in plenty of poor decisions over the past several years and is likely to continue to do so.

Posted by: zcezcest1"

Well, count me as one that disagrees there. Along with your comprehensive list above, a majority of those names will be off the Redskins roster within 2 years, freeing up a LOT of cap room. Carter, Samuels, ARE, Griffin, Smoot, Rabach, Jansen, Thrash, Yoder, Daniels, Wynn, and Thomas will all be gone. Moss, Portis, Fletcher, Betts, and Collins will all have the possibility of being cut to save space. All 8+ million of dead cap space that's currently on the cap payroll will free up next offseason.

Haynesworth's contract will not affect the long-term salary cap of this franchise nearly as much as it's made out to be. THIS offseason, yes, he compromised Springs and Taylor. Easily a fair trade-off, given the amount of time each of those spent on the field, and the collective effectiveness of Taylor and Springs vs. Haynesworth.

Evans was not pursued. That was not related to Haynesworth. The Skins had ample opportunity to sign him, but opted not to. That's a decision unrelated to "mortgaging the future" on Haynesworth.

Golston is as good as signed. He's bound to the Redksins, one way or another. Either we get the services of Golston, which would be fine, or we get a second round selection, which would be even better. Again, zero impact from Haynesworth here.

As far as this: "In 2009, we're quite close to the cap limit. This means we can't go after other players that might be valuable."

"Might" being the key word. Given the collective production of the free agent class this year, Haynesworth by far outclasses any other combination of players that could have come to the Redskins in the same cap space. It's not even close. Chris Canty signed for roughly half the price of Haynesworth. He does not provide half the production. Same with the lot of other FAs out there. We got the top two talents on the market that weren't franchised by their teams. I'd much rather prefer that than a bunch of other mid-range FAs that this franchise has been collecting for the past decade. And the best part about it...no draft picks surrendered. The future is still very much in play. No "mortgaging" this offseason (thanks to the Chicago Bears).

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

TE, the "new system" is one where the receivers aren't very good and the O-line is suspect. I didn't say it was a credible system, just a new one.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 3:36 PM

This sytem sounds familiar. Did they copy it from last year's Redskins?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

If John Hall is your best kicker in 15 years who misses 25 games in a three season span, hits on 78% of his field goals in the games he did play and can't get kickoffs inside the 10 yard line, then you stand idly by as perhaps the best kicker of the decade is signed by another team, I'll say while you may not be "ignoring" the position, you're certainly not giving it proper attention.

And if we're all just sitting around waiting to get lucky then we can forget about winning anytime soon. There's 31 other teams that are looking to win by making it happen, not just by getting lucky.

Posted by: corky1031 | April 6, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Is there something more to why guys don't like Campbell than his QB play?

Posted by: jtrob_1 | April 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"No, I don't tell people what they can listen to. I told what I would listen to. But can you please answer the question -- what difference does it make?Posted by: talent_evaluator"

You first: why would you regard it as random noise and ignore it?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

@4thFloor

$12M is a huge amount of money. Probably one of the largest annual amounts paid in the league. This is a huge draw on resources.

Really my point is that while Haynesworth is clearly one of THE best players in the NFL, given our youth and depth issues (let alone starter issues @ SLB, RDE & RT), I don't think it was prudent to pay one player that much money.

That is a textbook case of devoting a lot of resources to one outlet, leaving you far less (money) to use elsewhere.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

ok, is 'corky1031' the same as 'the cork'.....I'm thinking no....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth's big piece of the cap pie is a risk, no doubt. However, the odds that he will help make us a much better overall defense are worth the risk. In this division you need pressure from your d-line & we haven't had that. So we took a chance, good for the FO!!*

*I reserve the right to amend this sentiment should he go on IR for tearing a stomach muscle due to engaging in a Big Mac eating contest!!

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"Now this same employer tried unsuccessfully to shop him for a second round pick."

Yet again, you're coming with a baseless assumption. You, nor I, nor anybody else on this blog that wasn't deeply involved in trade negotiations knows what Campbell was garnering. Campbell wasn't "unsuccessfully" shopped for a second round pick. Cutler was unsuccessfully bought for whatever the Redskins were offering. There's a MASSIVE difference.

"Thats 31 other GM's that know JC is highly over-rated."

Which even if it were true (which it isn't), that implies there's one GM that rates him higher than the other teams in the league. I wonder who that GM is? (Hint: it's the guy you've been claiming doesn't want him on the roster).

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Is there something more to why guys don't like Campbell than his QB play?Posted by: jtrob_1 "

He has a really big.... truck.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"Thats 31 other GM's that know JC is highly over-rated. Its the primary reason the Skins went 2-6 the last part of the year and scored less points than a winless team"

Couple things:

1. You can't list 31 GM's, because not 31 teams are looking for a QB. Was Indy? How about NE. NYG, PHilly, Dallas, I mean off the top of my head there are 5 teams not looking for a qb
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eventually as a necessity (when JC wasnt considered 1st round material) Snyder had to shop JC as a 2nd round pick to attempt to put together a multiple pick package similar to Chicago. So NO.. 31 other teams did not need a QB but a complex package would of meant possibly a 3 way deal where the acquiring team not needing a QB would still take JC (on paper) for their picks and JC then going to another team for those picks going to Chicago. Such a 3 team deal was being discussed.

Really, again think about this from multiple news sources including the WaPO and NFL.com quote.. Snyder was unable to get a Second and Chicago wanted Orton. Snyder has paid millions for JC the last 4 years.. with no playoffs achieved from JC to show for it (Brunell and Collins). And Snyder gave away THREE Draft picks for JC in 05. Its why they keep playing him even though Collins had better numbers in 07.. He is a HUGE investment that they are desparately trying to make into a successful payoff. But the Cutler dalience for just a second round pick shows they are now being realistic.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"That is a textbook case of devoting a lot of resources to one outlet, leaving you far less (money) to use elsewhere."

In principle, this is true.

In actuality, you need examples of what else could have been bought with Haynesworth's money. My argument is no other combination of players on the free agent market could have netted the Redskins a greater impact for that money than Haynesworth. Not Canty plus Jason Brown. Not Housh + (insert name here). Feel free to rebut.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"Thats 31 other GM's that know JC is highly over-rated."

Which even if it were true (which it isn't), that implies there's one GM that rates him higher than the other teams in the league. I wonder who that GM is? (Hint: it's the guy you've been claiming doesn't want him on the roster).

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 3:51 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brilliant.. Its the one who unsuccessfully tried to get a First Round Draft pick in exchange.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

psps, I'm still saying the Skins put too many eggs in too few baskets. That's what happens when you sign Haynesworth and Hall for the big $$$. Its not like those contracts are going away.

You can criticize Springs, but the man could play. If you're $20million under the cap, he stays. Same with Evans. They went out and got Wynn and kept Daniels at DE. Two pieces of duct tape. Evans was better than either of them -- and younger and healthier. Carter has been overpaid all along. Would I rather take a chance at keeping Jason Taylor at RDE or Andre Carter? I know Carter has little to offer, but his contract keeps him here because we can't afford the hit. Taylor might have something if he's healthy. Why is Taylor gone instead of Carter? Cap.

Its these types of decisions that are influenced more by our cap position than by the quality of play. That has cost this team in years past and likely this year.

We don't have an RT, TJ Housh didn't come this way and we still have a huge gap at OLB. Being $20 million under the cap gives you choices. Albert alone isn't the issue. But the fact that Albert constrains other options for this team, that is the issue.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

It makes absolutely no sense to try to assess Jason Campbell's value on an open market based on trade speculation and rumors from around the league. I think it should be obvious that no general manager would be willing to both help the Redskins make a deal AND pay a fair market value for a player. In a trade, usually both parties think they are getting some sort of a deal or benefit out of it.

Posted by: braker19cleartheline | April 6, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

My criticism of signing Albert is really limited to the 'too many eggs, too few baskets' area. In the NFC East, its a position worth paying a premium price to ahve a beast in the middle.

Also, losing Springs isn't as harmful now that plax and to are both gone. Springs matched up against those guys better than anyone else on the team. Now that the NFC East is devoid of good WRs, our secondary should look pretty good.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

@ psps23

I guess I'm arguing to a non-specific point. There weren't great free agents this year, nor did we have any key players who needed new (expensive deals) besides Hall.

But given the lack of depth & youth that I already mentioned, I just don't think we should be devoting that much money to one player.

Haynesworth would be a good signing for a young team that needs a super stud to put it over the top. But we're still in the early stages of trying to build a foundation.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Its these types of decisions that are influenced more by our cap position than by the quality of play....
Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:03

You make some valid points. If we had plenty of cap room, in order for that room to do us any good though you need a coherent vision of what you are trying to achieve by signing people. I think they have regressed to signing names again instead of best fit.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Isn't the Grammatica family due for a fresh crop?? I love watching those cocky little Napoleons raise their arm at kickoff (they need like a big red plume of feathers sticking out the back of their helmet). They've got this farm in the back hills of Bigbootia, where they train their formerly peasant children in the esoteric art of placekicking in the American NFL..should be a hollywood movie..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

alan4

'...Why should I believe Cutler would buy the Bears two more wins this year?'

Because the bears have a defense--Briggs, Urlacher, et al.

The broncos didn't and don't.

The bears have made a recent super bowl run

The broncos haven't.

The bears have an excellent kick returner (Hester) and kicker (Gould) and young running back (Forte) and tight end (Olsen).

The bears have addressed their o-line isses by adding Pace and will add receivers where they can find them. The bears are thinking long-term, not next year.

The broncs now have picks and picks only.

The bears know how to win ugly, so adding a guy--Cutler-- with some kind of a passing flair is a massive upgrade over Kyle Orton, the guy who quarterbacked them to a 9-7 season--that's how you get two more wins.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

So, this is it? One post about the kicker's position? Nice day's work JLC...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

z,

Do you not see the irony in arguing that Haynesworth is the reason for the demise of Jason Taylor because of salary cap issues, as if Taylor was NOT overpaid for the production he provided? Taylor was cut because of his own production/salary ratio. Had Taylor been effective, pursuing Haynesworth would never have occurred.

You argue that Evans was a cheaper healthier version of Daniels or Wynn. Sure, I can go with that. But I'll also say that Carter is a cheaper, healthier version of Jason Taylor. And I wouldn't be wrong in that analogy. Evans had one good year, compared to Daniels' and Wynn's long careers at that production level. For the past 2 years, Carter has played at an equal level to Jason Taylor -- only Carter is younger and cheaper for the skins. Nothing Taylor did last season makes me believe he would be better than Carter this year. Of course, if you argue that Taylor would be better because he's historically been more talented, I'd just counter with saying that Daniels would be better than Evans, as he is clearly the more talented player (just older and more injury prone). We could make it a circular argument, but basically:

Carter + Daniels = Taylor + Evans

Springs, yes he was effective on the field. But his demise did not come because of Haynesworth. His demise was a result of Deangelo Hall. Had Hall not signed, Springs would still be here.

Regardless, a couple of expensive, injury-prone, OLD veterans getting released for salary cap reasons is FAR from "mortgaging the future". Obviously Haynesworth has had an impact on the roster. That is not the same as what's being argued.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

If we had plenty of cap room, in order for that room to do us any good though you need a coherent vision of what you are trying to achieve by signing people. I think they have regressed to signing names again instead of best fit.

Posted by: will_ga

Thats the reasons I posted the list of the 30 top players and if I think they'll be here in 2 years. Peri took a cut at it also.

You look at the places you are have an issue or are at risk and attempt to find the right fit. Pretty clear that Skins mgmt doesn't think that way. If you believe Peter King, he suggests the Skins were willing to part something similar to the Bears -- which would mean less resources to fill the same number of holes.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"..Haynesworth would be a good signing for a young team that needs a super stud to put it over the top...'Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 4:12 PM

Yeah, like adding him to a unit that was terrible at creating pressure and was ranked fourth in the league. AH and this defense will be one of the elite units in the league.

Aside from that hypothesizing, he will for sure make Brando Jacob's day less bright.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

So, this is it? One post about the kicker's position? Nice day's work JLC...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:18 PM

So, this is it? One post for the day -- a whiney sniveling complaint? Nice day's work H2tC... Come back soon.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"..The bears have addressed their o-line isses by adding Pace and will add receivers where they can find them. The bears are thinking long-term, not next year..."
Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:17 PM

Moe,

If they think that Pace will serve them 'long term,' then they are sadly mistaken.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth cap number for this year is 7 million dollars. He cost 1.5 million less the Jason Taylor or approximately equal to the cost of Haynesworth + Daniels + Wynn...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth was a free agent and didn't cost he Skins any draft picks...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

smutsboy

'...But we're still in the early stages of trying to build a foundation...'


'...Early stages...of building a foundation?': Bro,' we been rebuilding since the last pyramid was foreclosed on.

Since 1991, teams like the iggles, stillers, pats, colts, and others have
collapsed, arisen, and returned to dominate.

Some expnasion team like the panthas and ravens have come into the league with mediocre quarterbacks and made themselves forces to contend with.

Their defining traits: something called a GM, the same head coaches,and offensive and defensive schemes that hardly ever changed.

Contrast these realities to the skins,' '...early stages of re-building...'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I meant Taylor's salary was equal to Haynesworth + Daniels + Wynn...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"But given the lack of depth & youth that I already mentioned, I just don't think we should be devoting that much money to one player."

The reason I disagree is because nothing about the Haynesworth signing prevents the team from building depth and youth. This is not a case of the skins giving up 2 draft picks for Jason Taylor, or 2 draft picks for Brandon Lloyd, etc. I've put it here before, but after the Skins signed Haynesworth, they ended up with 4 (now 5) draft selections. If the Skins didn't sign Haynesworth? They'd still have only 4 (now 5) draft selections. His impact has solely been on the older, injury-prone veterans. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

moe, Pace is DONE...he's gonna be a Jansen like turnstile....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"Regardless, a couple of expensive, injury-prone, OLD veterans getting released for salary cap reasons is FAR from "mortgaging the future". Obviously Haynesworth has had an impact on the roster. That is not the same as what's being argued.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009"

Clearly signing the right free agents makes sense. However, trading away draft picks for much less than value added combined with signing free agents like a Haynesworth does not. The dead cap is littered with mistakes relative to that ...

In the case of Taylor, instead of an impact to the salary cap there was a huge impact to both the number of draft picks and their level. Very little value was redeemed, in fact much was lost in terms of the team's long term health ...

In the case of "the wide receiver" salary cap was damaged, and draft picks lost with almost nothing in return. Worst than J. Taylor. Taylor at least suffered and injury.

Without Brandon Lloyd's dead cap they would have been able to keep a Shawn Springs plus a Marcus Washington and sign Haynesworth plus have a rookie pool.

And it isn't like Snidely and Vinnie weren't warned about Lloyd ... Vinnie should definitely have known from his experience in SF with Stumblefield. There is really NO EXCUSE or EXPLANATION in that case.

IN any case my point is that Snidely's spurning of his current "trophy wife" for someone else's who deems far sexier/more beautiful ends up severely damaging the team. There is no way Gibbs would ever suggest to signing a character like Lloyd. This I believe was concocted by Snidely and the player's agent ... as so many of his cock-a-mamie deals have ...

You draft first, then see what holes still remain ... and you carefully try to fill them with FA.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

smutsboy

'...But we're still in the early stages of trying to build a foundation...'

'...Early stages...of building a foundation?': Bro,' we been rebuilding since the last pyramid was foreclosed on.

Since 1991, teams like the iggles, stillers, pats, colts, and others have
collapsed, arisen, and returned to dominate.

Some expnasion team like the panthas and ravens have come into the league with mediocre quarterbacks and made themselves forces to contend with.

Their defining traits: something called a GM, the same head coaches,and offensive and defensive schemes that hardly ever changed.

Contrast these realities to the skins,' '...early stages of re-building...'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

To be fair the Eagles have never been dominant. Unless you count Losing any game that matters dominant.

Posted by: Pleepleus | April 6, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"To be fair the Eagles have never been dominant. Unless you count Losing any game that matters dominant.

Posted by: Pleepleus | April 6, 2009"

Consistently good teams would be the NE Patriots, the Titans and the Ravens. Followed by the Giants, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and San Diego.

You can't win the superbowl every year but these teams seem to always be poised ... and blow it either because of injury or because one of the other contenders was just plain better.


Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Allthatskins

'...he will for sure make Brando Jacob's day less bright....'

Haynesworth notwithstanding, teams will seal Fletcher, and attack the skins by running off-tackle at Carter or HB Blades: that's how teams got yards in the second have of last season.

Carter s upfield rush makes him susceptible to the lead draw/trap play. Blades can be smothered by tall tight ends.

You can't run straight at the skins, but you sure can attack the front seven at the edges--especially to Carter's side.

That's why signing a young stud defensive end or slb is so important.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

So, this is it? One post about the kicker's position? Nice day's work JLC...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:18 PM

So, this is it? One post for the day -- a whiney sniveling complaint? Nice day's work H2tC... Come back soon.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I post plenty when there is actually something work talking about not just skimming through post and making weak attempts to show face...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth cap number for this year is 7 million dollars. He cost 1.5 million less the Jason Taylor or approximately equal to the cost of Haynesworth + Daniels + Wynn...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009"

Goes up significantly next year ... and his bonus $$$ ...

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I go by this handle on PSN as well. look me up for some COD4, COD5 or Madden

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

One reason why the Skins' FO was tripped up in their master plan to acquire Cutler was a little inconvenience called logic. Their plan called for Campbell to be part of a package that would be put together in exchange for Cutler. But they overlooked the possibility that other teams would look at this and say to themselves "if the Skins are so eager to get rid of Campbell can he really be worth that much?" and this pretty much scuttled any chance the Skins had of making a deal.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 2:02 PM

This doesn't sound like very good reasoning to me. Wouldn't the SAME logic apply to taking Orten as well? "If the Bears are so eager to get rid of Kyle..."

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 2:07 PM |

All I was saying was that by shopping Campbell that automatically devalued him. Consider the back story: "Jim Zorn, QB guru, working with promising QB prospect Jason Campbell to mold his considerable physical talents into an elite QB." And then you start shopping him in order to get another QB? It just doesn't fly. Your reference to Orton makes no sense. The Bears weren't shopping him. He was just a throw in. You could even say that the Broncos did the Bears a big favor by taking Orton, who they no longer needed or wanted, and his starting QB salary off their hands.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

beantown/allthatskins


Please don't make me justify signing Pace--I ain't a bears fan.

But they--the bears-- are not the dawgs folks are making them out to be.

In a funny world, the skins and bear would meet in the playoffs--Cutler v. Campbell-- next January.

Then, we'd see who was right about signing or trading whom.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

bottom line is as someone pointed out earlier this team will have to take a major turns within 2 to 3 years... knowing that I just dont know about the Haynesworth deal

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

You can't run straight at the skins, but you sure can attack the front seven at the edges--especially to Carter's side.

That's why signing a young stud defensive end or slb is so important.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Here's hoping Daniels can make an impact here again this season. If he stays healthy he will make us better on the edges against the run, not great, maybe not even good, but better.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

You can't run straight at the skins, but you sure can attack the front seven at the edges--especially to Carter's side.

That's why signing a young stud defensive end or slb is so important.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Here's hoping Daniels can make an impact here again this season. If he stays healthy he will make us better on the edges against the run, not great, maybe not even good, but better.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

moe, all I'm saying is that Pace was done in ST. Louis, what makes going to Chicago suddenly turn back the clock?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

.."Haynesworth notwithstanding, teams will seal Fletcher, and attack the skins by running off-tackle at Carter or HB Blades: that's how teams got yards in the second have of last season.
Carter s upfield rush makes him susceptible to the lead draw/trap play. Blades can be smothered by tall tight ends.
You can't run straight at the skins, but you sure can attack the front seven at the edges--especially to Carter's side.
That's why signing a young stud defensive end or slb is so important."

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:40 PM

Moe,

Chris Wilson at SAM & Aaron Maybin/Robert Aryes at End. An influx of youth and talent at those positions will remedy that concern.

Running towards Daniels/Wynn shouldn't be easy for opposing offensives easy.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

@AllThatSkins

No, adding Haynesworth to our defensive roster isn't like the hypothetical situation I described at all.

@MistaMoe

Completely agree. I said 'rebuilding' simply for argument's sake. What I should have said was, "a team who SHOULD be rebuilding".

Under Danny & Vinny we are clearly NOT rebuilding.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the time off has done Pace some good. Maybe he plays at an acceptable level for 2-3 seasons. I hope not but there is a chance...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

here's a topic of discussion for LA CANTFORA


HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"bottom line is as someone pointed out earlier this team will have to take a major turns within 2 to 3 years... knowing that I just dont know about the Haynesworth deal

Posted by: BenchCampbell"

And my guess is that's why we here about the reported 4 year, $48 million deal with an "out" clause that the Skins implemented. They're making a run within the next couple years. After that, it's bye-bye vets -- possibly along with Haynesworth. They probably figured "might as well", since the team won't be looking much different until 2011 at the earliest.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

What about drafting the next Lou "The Toe" Groza?

Posted by: AsstGM | April 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

here's a topic of discussion for LA CANTFORA


HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, that's the best laugh I've had today.

You know we started JAMES THRASH right?

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

BTW, the Rams payed Pace $5 million per year.

Just another case of an overvalued talent (at this point in his career) getting paid in a top-heavy market for a desperate team. A 27-year old Haynesworth at $12 million per year is most definitely a better value than an over-the-hill, injury prone Pace at $5 million per year.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

psps23, your optimism about a regime who has never once dedicated itself to actually building foundation and youth is truly impressive.

Posted by: smutsboy | April 6, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, that's the best laugh I've had today.

You know we started JAMES THRASH right?

Posted by: smutsboy"

I'm not talking last year, I'm talking this year.


LOOK IT UP NERDFACE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Everyone Lay off Vinny.. He successfully

dismantled the San Francisco 49ers dynasty in the 90's and he's doing a dam n good job with the Redskins this decade.

Wonder if Jerry Jones plays racquetball??

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'...But we're still in the early stages of trying to build a foundation...'

'...Early stages...of building a foundation?': Bro,' we been rebuilding since the last pyramid was foreclosed on.

Since 1991, teams like the iggles, stillers, pats, colts, and others have
collapsed, arisen, and returned to dominate.

Some expnasion team like the panthas and ravens have come into the league with mediocre quarterbacks and made themselves forces to contend with.

Their defining traits: something called a GM, the same head coaches,and offensive and defensive schemes that hardly ever changed.

Contrast these realities to the skins,' '...early stages of re-building...'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:30 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

position battle : kickers

riveting

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 6, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

"Dallas-
R Williams
Crayton
Kilometers Austin
Hurd?

Giants-
Hixon
Smith
Moss
Manningham

Skins-
Moss
Randle El
Thomas
Thrash
Kelly

Eagles-
Jackson
Curtis
Baskett
Brown
Avant"


from another board


who would you take?


NONE OF THE ABOVE!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Here's hows come: The Eagles couldn't deat with TO and they won't pay anyone else, The Cowboys couldn't tame TO and Roy Williams doesn't know how to run routes and Plaxico damn near shot himself in the junk! My point is that it isn't that the Skins receivers are so great it just there competiton is poor...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

James Thrash is a special teamer no more

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I post plenty when there is actually something work talking about not just skimming through post and making weak attempts to show face...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 4:41 PM

Wow, a late day rally with five posts. You're back in the game! Impressive.

Anyway, around here we don't call it "weak attempts to show face." We call it jibba jabba, and some days it's the only reason for being here. But we always try to stay away from "work talking."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 |

I wouldn't go with the Skins, but the bar is certainly low. With a healthy hammy, Moss is the best in the division and ARE is credible. But the rest are, well, not much.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

moe, Pace is DONE...he's gonna be a Jansen like turnstile....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 6, 2009 4:33 PM

Agreed. To me, the Bears last year were almost a mirror image of our Skins--suspect O-line, lack of playmakers on both sides of the ball.

They have hurt themselves by giving away so many draft picks for a thin-skinned QB who will resent being face-planted twice a game (after only being sacked 11 times last year for Denver). Who's he going to throw it to? Rashied Davis? Earl Bennett? Brandon Rideau? Maybe it's not too late for the Bears to trade for BLloyd... or Ocho Stinko.

I look forward to watching some Bears games this season.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Wow, a late day rally with five posts. You're back in the game! Impressive.

Anyway, around here we don't call it "weak attempts to show face." We call it jibba jabba, and some days it's the only reason for being here. But we always try to stay away from "work talking."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

now you are counting my posts, weird stalker like actions goings on here. keep distance from talent evaluator...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | April 6, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"psps23, your optimism about a regime who has never once dedicated itself to actually building foundation and youth is truly impressive.

Posted by: smutsboy"

Cautious optimism. I know at any point they could swing a deal to send 17 draft picks for the next GOAT, but my simple opinion is that they've been good this offseason with regards to roster management (although not entirely by choice). I can't say the same about past offseasons.

Haynesworth, Hall, Dockery, Daniels, and Wynn were good signings. Bring back MWash at a cheap price, it becomes a great FA period. Draft a top OT and an explosive DE with LB and DE depth, and the entire offseason turns great, both for immediate returns and for the future.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

"HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009"

You are assuming that Devin Thomas becomes the next Gary Clark, Santana Moss continues to be a better deep threat than Ricky Sanders ... and Cooley settles into the Art Monk role possession receiver role, while Fred Davis becomes a Clint Didier / Stephen Alexander at TE. Finally Clinton Portis decides to try to earn his exorbitant salary, go out for passes, catch them and chew up yardage after the catch ... without fumbling.

Otherwise I don't see how they would be better than the Eagles or the Giants who have very effective skill players coming out of the backfield on passing plays.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I mentioned earlier that losing Springs isn't a big hit ... since the two best WRs we faced are gone. It also means the NFC East will be more dependent on the run ... and having Albert in the middle is a big help with that.

Only the iggles and Skins might improve at WR this year. That's based on last year's rookies getting better.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"HOW COME THE REDSKINS HAVE ARGUABLY THE BEST WR CORPS IN THE NFC BEAST???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 6, 2009"

Noting that expecting anything out of Malcolm Kelly would be raising expectations way to high. He of the players pegs on his wall and the framed photo of the owner's parents on his desk should have known better, especially with a 2nd round pick. I don't think we will ever see him recover enough from his injuries to contribute on a consistent basis ...

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

"Only the iggles and Skins might improve at WR this year. That's based on last year's rookies getting better.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009"

Assuming that a Boldin does not end up on the Eagles, Dallas, or Gints roster.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

.."Haynesworth notwithstanding, teams will seal Fletcher, and attack the skins by running off-tackle at Carter or HB Blades: that's how teams got yards in the second have of last season.
Carter s upfield rush makes him susceptible to the lead draw/trap play. Blades can be smothered by tall tight ends.
You can't run straight at the skins, but you sure can attack the front seven at the edges--especially to Carter's side.
That's why signing a young stud defensive end or slb is so important."
Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 4:40 PM

Moe,

Chris Wilson at SAM & Aaron Maybin/Robert Aryes at End. An influx of youth and talent at those positions will remedy that concern.

Running towards Daniels/Wynn shouldn't be easy for opposing offensives easy.

Posted by: AllThatSkins

I wouldn't be surprised to Wynn and Daniels on the field together at the DE positions when we play run heavy or so-so QB teams. Or see Monty or Alexander at DE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

PERI Thank you!!! who the hell are these people that are still trying to say Malcolm Kelly is going to tear it up this year... The kid has still not even been cleared to practice and may need another procedure done albeit on the other knee this time

Posted by: BenchCampbell | April 6, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Damn...I am probably the only one who had not seen this stat... Cutler could have a kick ass year next year with the Bears Defense.
From NFL.Com
"When the Broncos gave up more than 20 points in Cutler's tenure, he was 8-19. When they allowed 20 points or less? He was 9-1."

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 4:44 PM

Sorry, misread your post. I get what you are saying now.

Campbell's just gonna have to put up some serious numbers this year to restore his value. If he can't, then it's marginal anyway.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly will have a solid season - I'm thinking 60 catches, 800 yds, 5-6 TDs. you heard it here first.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, Mrs. Kelly

+++++++++++++++++++++


Malcolm Kelly will have a solid season - I'm thinking 60 catches, 800 yds, 5-6 TDs. you heard it here first.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009 5:17 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

SkinsneedaGM,
it helps to have one of the best receiving corps in the the NFL and an O-line that only gives up 11 sacks all year. Cutler won't have those in Chicago, where the QB was sacked 28 times and the wideouts bear names like Rashied Davis, Earl Bennett, John Broussard, Brandon Rideau and Devin Aromashodu. Devin Hester is the Bears best known wideout, and that's only because of his success as a return specialist.

Expect Cutler's "20 points or less" record to change dramatically in Chicago.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly will have a solid season - I'm thinking 60 catches, 800 yds, 5-6 TDs. you heard it here first.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009 5:17 PM |

That would be great.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else cringe whenever they watch ARE take a punt return? We need Special Teams help. Period.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | April 6, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

YES, I SAID IT. TRADE NEXT YEARS PICKS.

Posted by: 4thFloor

How'd that work out THIS year, 4th?

I vote against it for the same reason stated before:

NEXT YEAR VINNIE MAY NOT BE DRAFTING! (One can hope)

Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

obviously I'm assuming the kid's knees are not shot as some fear. If he has something seriously wrong with him, well that would seem fitting if terribly unfortunate. I did hear that half the teams didn't even have him on their draft board. Let's hope...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

North Carolina or Michigan State?

Blow-out of buzzer beater?

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Chris Wilson at SAM & Aaron Maybin/Robert Aryes at End. An influx of youth and talent at those positions will remedy that concern.
Posted by: AllThatSkins

I wouldn't be surprised to Wynn and Daniels on the field together at the DE positions when we play run heavy or so-so QB teams. Or see Monty or Alexander at DE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009

First, it seems likely Braylon Edwards, perhaps Boldin and others will end up playing for the Giants or Eagles ... draft picks a plenty for trades, both attractive playoff teams.

So, no, the Redskins probably will have close to the worst BEAST wide receiver corps next year.

Yes Blache does indeed have appear to have a great deal more flexibility on the D-line now. That's why I think both Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson will be tried at linebacker. Let's face it, Rocky McIntosh is a bit like rookie Malcolm Kelly knee-wise. Even with MWash resigned they could end up short at that position.

If they don't trade down ... (I expect this to happen unless Orapko, Sanchez (Snidley) or Andre Smith (Vinnie and coaches) is available.

One would expect that you can forget Maybin and Ayers.

Instead, hopefully some of these guys along with an excellent OT & OG/C type might be drafted ...

Off-the-radar prospects
Which player will come from an unknown school and contribute to an NFL team?

Lawrence Sidbury, DE, Richmond: "He is going to be expected to be very good because he's going to be a second-round draft choice."

Don Carey, CB, Norfolk State: "He's a versatile defensive back with a lot of ability," Kiper said. He will go in the fourth or fifth round.

Johnny Knox, WR, Abilene Christian: Knox (6 feet, 185 pounds) wowed everyone at the combine with a 4.34-second 40-yard dash. "He had a real good career -- averaged almost 20 yards a catch, helps out in the return game. He's the kind of kid, if he's getting time, he could be a factor certainly moving forward."

Domonique Johnson, CB, Jackson State: "He didn't have the great year over at Jackson State, but he still is a guy who has ability in that defensive secondary to maybe be a player for you."

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly will have a solid season - I'm thinking 60 catches, 800 yds, 5-6 TDs. you heard it here first.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 6, 2009

Maybe in the Madden universe. This is the N.F.L. ---Not F'n Likely.

I so hope I'm wrong. I really want him to do well this year & I do think he can be a red zone beast if he can get out there.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth's 2010 cap number is 8.8 mil. He's due a 22 mil roster bonus, but that is spread over the life of the contract. Personally, I like the fact that the owner willing to pay for talent...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

True...I forgot Denver's OL has always been their strength.. I was excited when the rumor was out it was a Cutler and Shanahan package.. proved to be just that.. a rumor.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Expect Cutler's "20 points or less" record to change dramatically in Chicago.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 5:22 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Back to kicking...

I think the problems Suisham had with long distance accuracy were due to poor footwork and terrible blocking on the line -- the holder seemed fine to me.

Posted by: siris

How can you tell from in the stands or watching on TV? I'm not a kicking coach either, but I constantly hear reference to the need for a FG unit to work as a team. Suisham had at least three holders I can think of last year. Timing, measured in microseconds, angle of the ball, placement, etc. all can effect the kick, or equally important, a kicker's confidence.

Recall, one of the things working for Frost was the kicker was used to him as a holder.

Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

My succinct post just got buried by a periculum dissertation, so I am bumping it down.

North Carolina or Michigan State?

Blow-out of 3/OT Buzzer-beater?

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"Damn...I am probably the only one who had not seen this stat... Cutler could have a kick ass year next year with the Bears Defense."

He makes mistakes ... INTs. IN that division that will kill them, defense or no defense. This isn't Oakland and KC twice. This will be the Vikings, the Packers.

He will face the Lions twice though ....

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Kicking. Its a critical position. Last year hurt. Expect them to draft someone.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

My succinct post just got buried by a periculum dissertation, so I am bumping it down.

North Carolina or Michigan State?

Blow-out of 3/OT Buzzer-beater?

Posted by: swowra | April 6, 2009

Redskins Insider not March Madness blog.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cork -- you keep mentioning that Cerrato's drafts have not been good -- I disagree. How about some proof by comparing the Skins drafts (from 2002 - 2006) with the Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants...

Which NFC East team is getting the best value in the draft?

How many players drafted by the Skins are still on the team vs. the other teams in the NFC East?

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

How many players drafted by the Skins are still on the team vs. the other teams in the NFC East?

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:41 PM

If you know the answer, just please tell us. And if you don't, well, I'm delegating it to Periculum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I agree -- it's difficult for fans to tell if mechanics or timing is an issue, but constantly hooking the ball and under kicking -- to me -- appear to be mechanics issues. I remember watching Suisham miss a couple long distance kicks when his plant leg was too far forward...

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Special teams are one-third of a football team. You cannot consistently win games if your team constantly loses the special team battles.

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

prediction for RI blog, many years from today:

I can't remember the last time we had a good kicker. Chip Lohmiller? We let Suisham go and he hasn't missed a FG from under 70- yards in that last 7 seasons. And our guy can't kick a 38 yarder.

It is fate.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Anyone see Jason La Canfora on Washington Post Live today? He went out of his way to mock the Redskins hopes for the 2009 season. Host Russ Thaler mentioned that 2009 could be a great year for local sports and went on to list the various local teams who have high hopes for next year. When Thaler got to the Redskins, Jason La Canfora interrupted and mocked any hopes the Redskins have for 09.

And he is employed as the Redskins beat writer why? I'm not saying he has to be a cheerleader for the team, but I can't imagine any beat writer for any other local team mocking the team's hopes for the NEXT season.

I don't know much about this Jason La Canfora, but I could tell from one 10 minute interview (in which he also trashed the Redskins for giving Byron Leftwich a WORKOUT) that this beat reporter does not like the Redskins.

Am I the only one that noticed this?

Posted by: brianxp | April 6, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cork -- you keep mentioning that Cerrato's drafts have not been good -- I disagree.
Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:41 PM
++++++++++++++++
this is a mish mash from the save our skins website.. I do not claim any portion of its content or accuracy, etc.. just clipped and pasted..

December 19, 2008 12:22 AM


Deion Sanders - overpaid, old, coined term "pulling a Sanders"

Bruce Smith - pulled a Sanders

Jeff George - pulled a Sanders

Letting Ryan Clark go for pennies

Letting Walt Harris go

Mike Barrow - didn't play

Ade Jimoh – for 4 seasons? terrible waste of space

Christian Fauria - didn't play

Shane Matthews -

Justin Tryon - ew

Rod Gardner -

Danny Wuerffel -

John Hall - terrible and injured

Chad Morton -

Cliff Russell - WOW!! HUGE blunder!

Rob Johnson - what smells in here?

Mike Rumph -

Kenny Wright - major blunder

Willie Jackson - never played

Gibran Hamdan - ew

Mark Brunell - gross

Durant Brooks -

Ryan Plackemeir -

Derrick Frost - ew

Mark Carrier - pulled a Sanders

Adam Archuletta - terrible, just plain wrong

Refusing to pay Antonio Pierce

TJ Duckett (3rd round pick)

Brandon Lloyd - this guy was a joke

Taylor Jacobs - gross

Jeremiah Trotter - pulled a Sanders

Jesse Armstead - Sanders x2

Fred "Alarmclock" Davis - doesn't play

Jason Taylor - ew, major Sanders move

Patrick Ramsey - not good at all

Jacquez Green - haha - need I explain?

Chris Doering - slow, very slow

Riddell Anthony -

Trung Canidate -

Trading Bailey AND a pick, rather than straight up for Portis

Our rookie WRs who don't run routes or catch

Complete 2008 Draft except for Horton who a Redskins Park Intern allegedly selected.


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

The Bears acted like a crazed crack addict craving a hit in l' affaire de Cutler. Usually what happens when a nice "cut" of meat like "Cut"ler is put on the block the market forms at the low end and then goes from there. So the opening bids for him would have been a 1st rounder and maybe an appetizer like Campbell and if the Broncos are chumps they would have taken the best initial offer. But usually what happens after the intial round of tenders is that the owner waits for another set of bids to materialize so a follow up bid might have been something like a 1st and a 3rd. And so on until a bid is reached that no one will top. But in this case what happened was that within hours of putting him on the block the Broncos announced that they were only going to be entertaining bids of at least 2 1st round picks. The Bears had struck pre-emptively, capping the market before it even had a chance to form. Nobody, not even high rollers like the Skins' FO, was going to go that ridiculously high. The Bears got their fix and it felt good.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"The Bears acted like a crazed crack addict craving a hit in l' affaire de Cutler."

Didn't Snyder offer two 1st round picks for Ocho Stinko? I'm just glad the Bears were willing to give away more of their draft picks and players to get their fix this time.

This FO has a terrible addiction for pursuing everyone else's players instead of developing their own.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know much about this Jason La Canfora, but I could tell from one 10 minute interview (in which he also trashed the Redskins for giving Byron Leftwich a WORKOUT) that this beat reporter does not like the Redskins.

Am I the only one that noticed this?"

Yep, the Post has a curious NY bent to it, I think they're Giant moles..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

In fact, I think Danny and Vinny are Giant moles..

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised to Wynn and Daniels on the field together at the DE positions when we play run heavy or so-so QB teams.

Posted by: zcezcest1

That would be oh so infinitely preferable to seeing them both in the X-ray room or whirlpool together.

One thing I realized from re-watching the Skins/Dallas in sept game and Skins/Iggles in Oct match was, when everyone is healthy, this ain't a half bad team by a long shot.

It's the recurring depth issue that worries me. It's the main reason why the draft is so critical, and if 4-5 of last year's draft busts don't turn it around, the team is hurting.

OLine, LDE, WR & RB lead the hit parade of most-likely-to- wear-down by December, IMO.

Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

To all the JC supporters out there please answer this: I posted it earlier, and I would like to have an honest open dialogue about it.

Which teams that aren't west coast offenses are needing QB's across the league?
You would think they'd be lighting up the phone lines to Redskins park trying to get Jason Campbell wouldn't you? The FO tried to trade him, so why aren't the other teams lining up? I think it's because we Skins fans are a bit biased and think too highly of him. They perhaps don't?
Since so many think he's great, even the D co-ordinator from Philly, please address the lack of even rumors from other teams trying to get him. Even Leftwich garners attention, who would be another mistake IMO. Too slow delivery again, except when he played us last year. Ughhh!!!!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse


Hey Cork -- you keep mentioning that Cerrato's drafts have not been good -- I disagree.

Posted by: siris | April 6, 2009 5:41 PM

++++++++++++++++

this is a mish mash from the save our skins website.. I do not claim any portion of its content or accuracy, etc.. just clipped and pasted..

December 19, 2008 12:22 AM


Deion Sanders - overpaid, old, coined term "pulling a Sanders"

Bruce Smith - pulled a Sanders

Jeff George - pulled a Sanders

Letting Ryan Clark go for pennies

Letting Walt Harris go

Mike Barrow - didn't play

Ade Jimoh – for 4 seasons? terrible waste of space

Christian Fauria - didn't play

Shane Matthews -

Justin Tryon - ew

Rod Gardner -

Danny Wuerffel -

John Hall - terrible and injured

Chad Morton -

Cliff Russell - WOW!! HUGE blunder!

Rob Johnson - what smells in here?

Mike Rumph -

Kenny Wright - major blunder

Willie Jackson - never played

Gibran Hamdan - ew

Mark Brunell - gross

Durant Brooks -

Ryan Plackemeir -

Derrick Frost - ew

Mark Carrier - pulled a Sanders

Adam Archuletta - terrible, just plain wrong

Refusing to pay Antonio Pierce

TJ Duckett (3rd round pick)

Brandon Lloyd - this guy was a joke

Taylor Jacobs - gross

Jeremiah Trotter - pulled a Sanders

Jesse Armstead - Sanders x2

Fred "Alarmclock" Davis - doesn't play

Jason Taylor - ew, major Sanders move

Patrick Ramsey - not good at all

Jacquez Green - haha - need I explain?

Chris Doering - slow, very slow

Riddell Anthony -

Trung Canidate -

Trading Bailey AND a pick, rather than straight up for Portis

Our rookie WRs who don't run routes or catch

Complete 2008 Draft except for Horton who a Redskins Park Intern allegedly selected.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2009 6:01 PM

What he said.

Pointing out that obviously this includes the awful Redskin trades, too.


Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Which teams that aren't west coast offenses are needing QB's across the league?
You would think they'd be lighting up the phone lines to Redskins park trying to get Jason Campbell wouldn't you? The FO tried to trade him, so why aren't the other teams lining up? I think it's because we Skins fans are a bit biased and think too highly of him. They perhaps don't?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 6:47 PM |

Good question. I think it may be because he hasn't proven himself for more than half a season, because his contract is expiring, and because if he's traded, an expensive new contract would be part of the deal.

I keep saying I don't know about Campbell. But I do know for the first half of last year with healthy offense, he was very very good.

This does put the FO in a tight squeeze. Do they gamble a big contract early? Or do they risk losing him. I think they've bungled it.

I think if he's good or very very good again he goes elsewhere for more money, or extracts a huge contract from Snyder--which will hurt the team elsewhere capwise.

If he's bad, the Skins still need a QB.

Compare this to the way the Pats handled the Cassel/Brady situation.


Posted by: TheCork | April 6, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Exactly why my beloved Skins will be mediocre at best under this FO. It is really pathetic.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Last season we were exactly one kicker and/or one punter away from going to the playoffs.


Posted by: _Stumped_ | April 6, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Last season we were exactly one kicker and/or one punter away from going to the playoffs.


Posted by: _Stumped

What are you talking about?

I think we were about 1 extra TD per game away from being really good.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Nobody, not even high rollers like the Skins' FO, was going to go that ridiculously high. The Bears got their fix and it felt good.
Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009

Uh, yes they would have. Josh McD wanted Orton not Campbell. Had he wanted Campbell our FO would have paid any price to get it done. Might even have thrown in free season passes to Six Flags.

Posted by: will_ga | April 6, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

This Swish-em guy sucks. There were about three games last year that if the skins had some good kicking they would have won. Thanks Swish-em.

Going 6-2, then 2-6 wont get you anywhere in the NFL and you need a kicker who can win you games. If they guys was kicking, the Redskins would have won the Cardinals game and would have finished the first half 7-1. A few other breaks in the second half (as in a few well placed field goals instead of misses) and the Skins could have turn the 2-6 into 4-4. That would gotten them into the playoffs.

Conclusion, Swish-em might be a decent kicker, but for the skins to make the playoffs, they'll need a better kicker. And don't think for a second that this bum that they've brought in to challenge Swish-em is the answer. He's not. They need someone reliable. I can't believe that Snyder will try to get a quarterback he doesn't need, but not even attempt to find a top-notch kicker that would help the Skins win games.

Posted by: blackmanhl | April 6, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

i wonder how brooks would have finished the season had he been given the season...at this point...looking back...its too bad we didnt really give him the opty to develop over a full season...maybe he would have come around...

unless he is on some other team...might as well have him in for the competition...

Posted by: deadskin | April 6, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Nobody said you had to be good to make the playoffs. Right now the Skins are a slightly above average team.

The real point is that improving the kicking and punting game this off season would be easy to accomplish. And yet there's been no action.

With an improved kicking game last season I think we would have certainly won one or two close games, hence the playoffs.

With the parity in the league these days, little things mean a lot, little things like punting and kicking.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | April 6, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Smutsboy,

My bad. I was alluding to my hypothetical, that Haynseworth will not only dominant opposing offensive lines but his domination will permeate throughout the rest of the defense (& offense, too).


Peri, "...Kicking. Its a critical position. Last year hurt. Expect them to draft someone..."

Drafting a kicker is almost as effective as us attempting a field goal in a game.
Let Chris Cooley kick field goals. lol.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

ummm... they did beat the Cardinals

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

All I can say is they must think that Suisham will come around with a little competition. I dunno.

I was really surprised they let Brooks go so soon. Here's a guy who had zero time to develop. Use a draft pick on the guy and then don't even hold a roster spot for him.

This is not news but there doesn't seem to be any consistency in approach by the organization.

This shabingus with Campbell is the perfect example, last year Campbell was treated like he was the franchise QB. Jim Zorn was selected to be the head coach, because he was smart, had some new ideas and could cultivate and develop Campbell.

Then they draft a QB (Colt)...the Cutler thing and now Leftwich (yeah, yeah, I know he's just the backup).

Anyway, all this fuss, but can we please devote just a little bit of attention to the special teams?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | April 6, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Danny seems like such a DC hater..What a nightmare to have him as an owner...

Posted by: frak | April 6, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

lsskinsfan ,

"Since so many think he's great, even the D co-ordinator from Philly, please address the lack of even rumors from other teams trying to get him. Even Leftwich garners attention, who would be another mistake IMO..."
Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 6:47 PM

Jason Campbell was drafted to be the "Franchise QB," and that's why, after 36 career games, I am still a JC17 fan. I like to watch him play in a Skins jersey and think that this season, a lot of other 'fans' will, too.

Because I am a fan and I cheer for players who put the team first and work hard, selflessly trying to make their team better.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

One thing I realized from re-watching the Skins/Dallas in sept game and Skins/Iggles in Oct match was, when everyone is healthy, this ain't a half bad team by a long shot.

It's the recurring depth issue that worries me. It's the main reason why the draft is so critical, and if 4-5 of last year's draft busts don't turn it around, the team is hurting.

OLine, LDE, WR & RB lead the hit parade of most-likely-to- wear-down by December, IMO.

Posted by: TheCork


WE had plenty of talent -- if healthy. Last year, I went over the Skins units one by one. The ONLY starting unit, if healthy, that was below average was the WR group. And that group only modestly below average.

A defense that finished 4th in the league has no huge holes (DL, LB, DB). Our TE and 2 RBs went to the Pro Bowl. The line, when healthy, was better than average and our QB was better than average.

When the line aged (practically overnight) and Moss strained his hammy -- the run game and the passing game both went down like a rock.

As for this year's team, it is also talented. As of now, the OL is below average and the WRs are below average. Our LBs are average (1 great, two so-so). If the starters stay healthy, this team competes and has a shot at the playoffs.

But there isn't a chance it will stay healthy. Too many guys have injury histories for all them to stay injury-free. That is where this team suffers in 2009.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

...You would think they'd be lighting up the phone lines to Redskins park trying to get Jason Campbell wouldn't you? The FO tried to trade him, so why aren't the other teams lining up?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 6:47 PM

I largely agree with Cork. I would also add that most teams don't want to unsettle their QBs (see: Cutler, Jay), and place value on stability at that position. Right now, JC17's body of work, 36 games, represents an average NFL QB. JC17 at this point is like a car you've owned for a few years--probably more valuable to you (if you paid it down and took care of it) than what someone else willing to pay. Someone else would probably rather spend (a 1st round pick) on a new car, or underpay you for yours.

You also have to also remember the trade was not straight up. The Skins had to get a starting QB (Cutler) out of the deal for it to happen. What team, besides the Skins and Denver, wants to publicly pursue someone else and psiss off their QB? Most coaches support their QBs if they're not screwing up. Other than a brand new coach who wants to put his stamp on things (McDaniels), only a meddlesome owner (Snyder, Jerry Jones, Al Davis) would initiate such a public pursuit of someone else's player, undermining the leadershiop of a young QB being developed by a QB-coaching specialist they hired just last year.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Skins starters with recent injury issues:

Jansen
Thomas
Samuels
Moss

Daniels
Griffin
Haynesworth
Rocky
Rogers
Horton

10 of 22 starters have had injuries that caused them to either miss significant time or play at a much lower level. For most of these guys, its not just been 1 injury.

Some guys, like Portis, Carter and Rabach have been very tough. Fletcher played while dinged up. Campbell missed 4 games, but was very durable last year.

Overall, it says that depth matters for this team. A lot.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

""A lot of fans would have liked to have seen an upgrade at kicker after Shaun Suisham again struggled to take the next step toward becoming a reliable kicker.""

Didn't he end up with the worst FG% in the league?

I'd say that's stuggling "to take the next step" and then some...

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

One thing I realized from re-watching the Skins/Dallas in sept game and Skins/Iggles in Oct match was, when everyone is healthy, this ain't a half bad team by a long shot.

Posted by: TheCork
***********************

I'd say the problem is that the team got predictable on offense:

Stack against Portis.
Double Moss.
Cooley wasn't hurting anyone in the redzone, and they weren't running deep patterns for him so it was fine letting him catch 5-6 ineffective balls a game.

The Steelers pretty much outed this squad re: pass protection.

By midseason and definitely in the final quarter, teams pretty much know the character of the other teams in the league. At that point, your guys either man-up and just beat the guys standing across from them, and/or your coaches start scheming their tails off and out-game-plan the other guy.

On offense, we got neither.


Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell was drafted to be the "Franchise QB," and that's why, after 36 career games, I am still a JC17 fan. I like to watch him play in a Skins jersey and think that this season, a lot of other 'fans' will, too.

Because I am a fan and I cheer for players who put the team first and work hard, selflessly trying to make their team better.

Posted by: AllThatSkins *****

That's nice, all fans will root for the QB of their team, me too of course, but your post doesn't address my questions. I agree with some others that have responded about why they haven't gone after Campbell. Still I think Minnesota would like to have him?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

"Drafting a kicker is almost as effective as us attempting a field goal in a game.
Let Chris Cooley kick field goals. lol.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009"

Kickers drafted/after draft signees by the Redskins that have done well:
Jeff Hall.
Chip Lohmiller.
Tony Zendejas.
Jim Turner.

Danny Miller was the only one who didn't really do anything ... and charlie gogolak was less than enchanting ...

Bottom line: drafting a kicker HAS WORKED better than most every position drafted. Additionally, the Redskins featured the only league MVP kicker in the history of the league in Mark Moseley.

Starting with George Allen, and his very strong emphasis on excellent teams and especially the kicking game, the Redskins have, until recently, featured one of the better kickers in the league.

Under Snyder the reverse seems to have occurred.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Along the injury front, while most players are able to come back the next year after hurting a knee, they aren't really 100% until the next year if at all ever again.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

lsskinsfan,

I think Zorn believes in Campbell. I believe Campbell can win & win often. But it remains to be seen, how Campbell's perception will be at the end of September, August, December....

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 6, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

"If you know the answer, just please tell us. And if you don't, well, I'm delegating it to Periculum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009"

You would have to pick a time-frame. At this juncture I would pick the Gints, Philly, followed by Dallas.

Perhaps you weight the value of picks, their importance to their team's won-lost record, the length of time, injuries.

In general I still think it makes a lot of sense to sign Leftwich, continue to groom colt, while working with Campbell. I suspect Zorn, a former good left-handed NFL QB, would be able to work with Leftwich.

1. Statistically that approach makes sense.

2. At this point I wouldn't want to throw Colt in if Campbell goes down, and I'm not sure its wise to put 37 year old Collins in with his dearth of NFL starts.


Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

It is worth asking. Why haven't the Skins gone after another QB?

Certainly, Danny fell in love with Cutler and was willing to pay for her, ummm, his, ummm services.

With Cutler, Danny was willing to dump Campbell for next to nothing. Are other teams knocking and is Danny listening?

Tampa, Minny, NY Jets, SF are all .500-ish teams that could be a lot better with Campbell as their QB. If I'm with the Vikes, I pick up the phone, offer up a #2 pick and see what happens. Same with the other teams. THe Skins get a #2 pick, sign Leftwich and let him and Collins see who gets to be #1 this year.

I can see Danny doing that. Though
I can't see Zorn being happy about it ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

That's nice, all fans will root for the QB of their team, me too of course, but your post doesn't address my questions. I agree with some others that have responded about why they haven't gone after Campbell. Still I think Minnesota would like to have him?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 8:32 PM |
======================================
From what I've read of your posts, you hate Campbell, and drool over yourself dreaming he's gone.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | April 6, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Gints Draft ...

(3 starters out of 4 picks)
2005 (no 1st rounder)
2 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State
3 Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame
4 Brandon Jacobs RB Southern Illinois
6 Eric Moore DE Florida State

(5 starters, 1 backup out of 6 picks)
2005 Dallas Draft
1 DeMarcus Ware OLB Troy State
1 Marcus Spears DE Louisiana State
2 Kevin Burnett LB Tennessee
4 Marion Barber RB Minnesota
4 Chris Canty DE Virginia
6 Justin Beriault DB Ball State
6 Rob Petitti T Pittsburgh
7 Jay Ratliff DE Auburn

(2 starters 2 backups, no 1st rounder
out of 10 picks)
2005 Philadelphia Eagles Draft
2 Reggie Brown WR Georgia
2 Matt McCoy LB San Diego State
3 Ryan Moats RB Louisiana Tech
4 Sean Considine DB Iowa
4 Todd Herremans T Saginaw Valley State
5 Trent Cole DE Cincinnati
5 Scott Young G Brigham Young
6 Calvin Armstrong T Washington State
7 Keyonta Marshall DT Grand Valley State
7 David Bergeron LB Stanford


(2 starters out of 6 picks)
2005 (Washington Redskins)
1 Carlos Rogers DB Auburn
1 Jason Campbell QB Auburn
4 Manuel White RB UCLA
5 Robert McCune LB Louisville
6 Jared Newberry LB Stanford
7 Nehemiah Broughton RB The Citadel

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

The Giants basically traded Philip Rivers for Eli Manning. Good or bad? Both were 1st rounders with no NFL experience.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

If I'm with the Vikes, I pick up the phone, offer up a #2 pick and see what happens. Same with the other teams.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 8:45 PM

Pretty safe bet that none of these teams had to call the 'Skins; that Vinny already called them and made this offer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 6, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

'...The Steelers pretty much outed this squad re: pass protection...'

1st of all, they exposed the fact that Mr. Portis' wasn't up to snuff at times with blitz pick up--something Zorn himself alluded to and attributed to practice habits.

2nd, they showed teams that if you take an upfield rush against Samuels, Pete Kendell wasn't athletic enough to deal with a blitzing safety or 'backer in space.

3rd, they did what everybody else did: they bull rushed Jon Jansen from the right side repeatedly with success.

You have to believe, though, some self-scouting wil reveal to the team what defenses did to them: the trick, coupled with Campbell knowing the system better, is to get the kinks worked out for the better.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

This FO has a terrible addiction for pursuing everyone else's players instead of developing their own.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 6:11 PM

You're never going to hear a "Oh yee of little faith" lecture from the Skins' FO. But they did give Campbell a year under Gibbs and a year under Zorn, both considered knowledgeable judges of QB talent. I would say that's a decent stab at "internal QB development". Even with different offensive systems there are certain basic skills that a QB will either develop or not develop. Walsh had his Montana, Johnson his Aikman and Belichick his Brady, but Gibbs 1.0 had replaceable parts. Coaching and the system used can work just as well if not better than internal player development.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

'...WE had plenty of talent -- if healthy...'


Depth saves a team in the second half of the season.

When guys got hurt or had tired legs, the skins lacked true players to plug in when needed: that's how playing so close to the sal cap and not drafting for need hurts a team.

The most obvious example was with Kendall/Samuels: both players had knee issues late in the season, but there wasn't a quality player to pull of the bench to sub for them.

It makes you wonder how much faith the team has in Heyer/Rhinehart.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"It makes you wonder how much faith the team has in Heyer/Rhinehart.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2009"

Rhinehart was a tackle in college ... is he a guard? Or will he swing between guard and tackle?

Heyer is definitely a "swingman" between the tackle positions, he is not a starter in spite of Vinnie telling him "to go take it". That's really up to Zorn and Bugel not Cerrato.

That and Snidely's suddenly awakened resolve to somehow become the team's general manager may cause many a fan to lose faith in this team.

They need to draft a top-notch left tackle and guard in this year's draft. There is no other way to fill those positions at this point.

Posted by: periculum | April 6, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

In Rinehart? Exactly as much as a mid-round rookie from a second division college deserved.
Maybe they're just not good at picking talent -- their top picks have been reasonably good, but they don't have a lot to show for the later rounds. You could argue that those late-round finds are less a product of superior talent evaluation and more the result of a consistent, monotonic pursuit of the same type of cogs in the machine for year after year. Pittsburgh's defense is one I would use as an example of this -- the names and numbers fade in and out, but the style has been pretty durned consistent for decades.
We've had the same basic defense for 5 years, and while we're not the same kind of elite that the Steelers and Ravens are, we've been pretty effective. And that was after a pretty complete rebuild in 2004.
Unfortunately, we've also had the same offense for five years, and effective is not the word that comes to mind. So maybe it's momentum, maybe it's having that one special QB who can put the team on his back and drag it over the goal line.

Posted by: daggar | April 6, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Not sure of the exact numbers, but there are roughly 50 players on each roster and the average NFL career is about 5 years. Which means there will be 10 new faces a year, for each team. Most of that turnover is at the lowe end of the roster.

On most teams, roughly 30 guys get most of the playing time. The 22 starters, P, K + the top rotation guys/subs (1 each at DT, DE, DB, QB, WR, OL).

For the top 30 players, say those careers average 10 years. You would normally expect to replace 3 guys a year out of your top 30.

Over the next 2 years, the Skins are looking at replacing about 15 of their current top 30 guys (my 2:27pm post named the guys I see getting replaced within 2 years. I see 13 as very likely and 8 more borderline).

They are turning over the quality players at the top of their roster at twice the normal rate. They will need to do that with some likely constraints: missing draft picks and limited cap space.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

That and Snidely's suddenly awakened resolve to somehow become the team's general manager...

Suddenly awakened?

They need to draft a top-notch left tackle and guard in this year's draft. There is no other way to fill those positions at this point.

They need to get a solid starter; they have some options, positions of obvious need. trading down doesn't seem too likely to me; if the distribution is anything like predicted, it'll be #6-#9 where teams rush to move up.

Posted by: daggar | April 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

It is worth asking. Why haven't the Skins gone after another QB?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 8:45 PM |

I think I can field this one... Snyder wants what he considers an upgrade. I don't believe he thinks JC17 is "bad", so he's not trying to *give* him away. Snyder asked for a 2nd rounder, which was the same price that bought Cassel. Snyder apparently considers JC17 on the same level with Cassell.

However, Snyder thought Cutler was an upgrade, and Cutler was available. No one else is dangling a young, (supposedly) proven QB. Hence, I suspect Snyder has concluded JC17 is the best QB available to start for the Skins this year.

Now it's up to JC17 to prove that he's more than an average NFL QB.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

From what I've read of your posts, you hate Campbell, and drool over yourself dreaming he's gone.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya ****

I hate no one, including you.

I think Jason Campbell is average at best, still I'll pull for him to prove me wrong a million percent.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | April 6, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Coaching and the system used can work just as well if not better than internal player development.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | April 6, 2009 9:28 PM

True, but this FO leaves neither coaches nor players (especially QBs) in place long enough to seriously judge development. We'd all love for a coach and QB to take off in their 1st or 2nd year here, but the other parts have to be in place for that to be realistic. That's why Brad Johnson was just another in a long line of QBs here, but a Super Bowl winner in Tampa.

The Skins are dangerously thin on both lines, and shallow at WR. The FO needs to address the real weaknesses and stop dicking around with positions that are good enough.

They can't have a strong "stash" of role players being developed on IR and the practice squad like they did under Beathard/Gibbs 1.0.... but they can find a way to reward and develop players like Ryan Clark, Devin Thomas, and JC17 instead of looking for the next BLloyd or Ocho Stinko.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

"I think I can field this one... Snyder wants what he considers an upgrade."

Snyder doesn't just want an upgrade, he wants a bona fide long-term franchise QB.

He thought Cutler could have been that for this team.

He didn't think there was another QB out there, besides Cutler, that gave a better shot than Campbell.

He had a shot to get a 3-time SB appearing, 2-time MVP, 1-time SB MVP, 1-time SB winner, multiple pro-bowler QB playing at the top of his game, yet he didn't even consider bringing him (Warner). He had another 4-time pro-bowl west coast QB on the market, but didn't consider him either (Garcia). Two other solid QBs were on the market, only one was brought in with the intention of only becoming a back-up (Kerry Collins and Leftwich). He also had a shot at the famed one-year wonder, young QB from New England, but didn't show an iota of interest (Cassel). Why? Because Campbell gives him the best opportunity of providing what he wants. He knows this. Zorn knows this. And that's why Campbell's name is still atop the depth chart.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Thinking positively for a second here:

What if:

Either Kelly or Thomas mature as a player, know the play book because it's the second year in the system, shows up for pre-season in shape, stays healthy and makes the expected steps towards realizing their full NFL potential. One of them should, right?

Wilson is effective at the SAM LB position.

Chad Rinehart lives up to being a third round pick and over-takes Thomas as a starter this season.

A guy like Alex Boone (RT 6'7" 328lbs Ohio St.) falls to the 5th or 6th round. He was projected 1-2 round until he got stupid with a bottle and got arrested in December, He's plummeting on the draft boards. He could be a taller version of Jansen when we drafted him. Fill his contract with behavior clauses and have Jansen mentor him. He was a leader on the field and could be a ten year starter at RT.

That's a starting R Guard, R Tackle, WR and SLB with little investment. Even if half of this happens, it would really help.

And Congrats UNC, they are killing Mich St.

Posted by: edvar | April 6, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

edvar, I agree on taking a chance with Alex Boone. And a 6th round pick is enough to do it (or else pass).

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | April 7, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

I am just proud that the Terps, outmatched in terms of overall talent, were able to beat both of this year's finalists. Something to hang my hat on...

Congrats to UNC, a most deserving champ, and Mich State for a great run.

I'm so ready for the Masters. Any thoughts? I'm sure Tiger will be right there but look for Ernie and some other vets (Couples, Furyk, Goose) to be in the mix too. Mickelson probably too.

Sorry, as much as I love the Skins, sometimes I need a break. Only so much we can say about our FO ineptitude..actually, that's unlimited fodder there but again, a break is good at times.

One Shining Moment...still gets me...

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 7, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

"Thinking positively for a second here:

What if:

Either Kelly or Thomas mature as a player, know the play book because it's the second year in the system, shows up for pre-season in shape, stays healthy and makes the expected steps towards realizing their full NFL potential. One of them should, right?"

In this draft the "off-the-radar" prospects actually look better. These are typically small school guys who hardly ever get a look by pro scouts who get wined and dined by the larger schools and their sports programs. Many have greater athletic skills, most especially when it comes to speed.

This is a draft where trading down may actually be a good idea. But not too far down. 2nd, 3rd choices could be employed to greater advantage and lower rounds used for higher risk players.

The problem is you have to have someone in the cockpit who knows what they are doing. And if the current escapades of this off season are any indication ... there appears to be no one piloting the plane.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 12:08 AM | Report abuse

We have a pilot, periculum, two in fact. But they are hopped up on mescaline and cheap whiskey and wearing gimp masks.

Good night all. Hail.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 7, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

psps23, excellent analysis. Well put.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 7, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Per -

I agree with your assessment. I guess I'm hoping one of the two will get it in gear.

Didn't bring up Davis because...I have no idea why they burned the pick on him with Cooley on the roster. How does Davis get much action unless Cooley sits?

What do you think of a guy like Greg Carr (WR FSU 6'6" 218) as a late rounder (6th) prospect. I don't know how you cover that guy running fades and outs for first downs and TD's

Posted by: edvar | April 7, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

maybe we could get Bonifacio as a PR. That guys can fly

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 7, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 7, 2009 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Alex Boone Scouting Report.
Scouts Inc. Grade: 60

Height: 6'7"
Weight: 328 lbs

College: OHIO STATE

Overall Rank: 143
Position Rank: 18

Alert B: Bulk/Size = Lacks size/bulk for position
1 = Exceptional
2 = Above average
3 = Average
4 = Below average
5 = Marginal

Overall Football Traits

Production 2
Boone starts three of the 11 games he appears in as a true freshman in 2005. Boone starts ten games at left tackle, appears as a reserve in one game and misses two games with an injury. (see durability) 2007-'08: Boone starts all 26 games. He earns second team All-Big Ten honors in 2007 and first-team honors in 2008.

Height-Weight-Speed 2
Excellent height, bulk and top-end speed.

Durability 2
Misses two games with an undisclosed injury during the 2006 season but he's a three-year starter who has stayed relatively healthy otherwise.

Character 4
2009: Arrested for misdemeanor public drunkenness in Southern California in February. 2006: Arrested for drunk driving in April.
Offensive Tackle specific Traits

Strength/Toughness 3
Showed excellent upper body strength at the combine, flashes a violent punch on film and sustains blocks once in position. But doesn't appear to have great lower body strength on
film and doesn't always finish blocks.

Agility 4
Struggle to counter any sudden lateral movement, especially when gets into space. However adequate body control when pulling around the corner.

Awareness 2
Keeps head up and does a good job of picking up blitzes/line stunts. (see 2007 Washington game) Shows above-average spatial awareness and has the potential to excel in a zone blocking scheme.

Pass Protection 3
Gets set quickly and extends arms once in position. Fairly long arms and rides edge rushers past the pocket. However, takes too long to redirect and can get beat by double moves. Stands up too much and can get driven back by bull rush.

Run Blocking 3
Takes more false steps than a player with his experience should and doesn't consistently jar defenders with an explosive initial punch. Stays balanced and locked on once in position but is a finesse blocker who stands up too much and doesn't drive defenders off the ball.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

spsp23 - Why? Because Campbell gives him the best opportunity of providing what he wants. He knows this. Zorn knows this. And that's why Campbell's name is still atop the depth chart.


I think you overstate Dan's thought process. Dan wanted a long-term solution to the QB position. None of the QBs you mention fit that bill. Having not been able to achieve his purpose he's riding out this season with Campbell - no more no less. If I read correctly, Dan told Campbell during their meeting that he didn't think JC was a franchise QB. I have a strong feeling that the erstwhile QB coach contributed to Dan's assessment. Unless JC shows something other than incremental improvement next season, he's done here.


HOW 'BOUT THEM TAR HEELS!!!!

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 7, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Alex Boone Scouting Report.
Blocked Brian Orakpo in Senior Bowl.

(You can see a lot of disinformation online about this, but it is what happened.)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | April 7, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Make that Fiesta Bowl.

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | April 7, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse

The "Russ Grimm / Joe J. Gibbs / Joe Bugel" choice:

Lydon Murtha | OT
Scouts Inc. Grade: 63

Height: 6'7"
Weight: 306 lbs

College: NEBRASKA

Overall Rank: 121
Position Rank: 16

Overall Football Traits
Production 3
2004: Nebraska red shirts Murtha. 2005-'07: Murtha starts 14 of the 31 games he appears in. He rotates in at left tackle in 2005 and 2006 before moving into the starting lineup at right tackle in 2007. He is named an All-Big 12 honorable mention during the 2007 season. 2008: Murtha starts eight games at right tackle.

Height-Weight-Speed 1
Excellent height, adequate bulk and rare top-end speed.

Durability 4
2004: Sustains a leg injury in fall and Nebraska red shirts him. 2007: Misses the final four games of the season with a foot injury. 2008: Sprains foot and misses four games.

Character 2
No off-the-field issues to our knowledge. Excels in the classroom and shows good overall maturity.

Offensive Tackle specific Traits

Strength/Toughness 4
Too much of a finesse blocker at this point. Showed better-than-expected upper body strength at the combine but absorbs defenders instead of jarring them with a violent initial punch.

Agility 2
Moves well for player his size. Shows quick feet when gets into space but hips appear a bit stiff in pass protection.

Awareness 3
Overall recognition skills are improving but still need work. Does a decent job of finding his assignment and shows decent spatial awareness on zone runs. A bit inconsistent when it comes to picking up delayed blitzes/lines stunts.

Pass Protection 3
Though has short arms for size gets set quickly and locks out so can ride edge rushers past the pocket. Not a natural knee bender. Sets too high at times and it affects ability to change directions quickly so occasionally gets beat by double moves (see: final offensive play of the 2007 Texas A&M game). Powerful bull rushers give him trouble as well and can get driven back into the quarterback's lap.

Run Blocking 3
Position-and-wall-off run blocker. Best suited to play in a zone-blocking offense. Shows very good initial quickness coming and covers a lot of ground when asked to release up to the second level or pull. Generally gets into good initial position but sustaining blocks can be a problem. Hand placement needs work and he lacks ideal lower-body strength.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 12:55 AM | Report abuse

Why Buges, Vinnie, Chris Samuels AND Clinton Portis REALLY WANT THIS GUY if they can get him.

Andre Smith | OT
Scouts Inc. Grade: 93

Height: 6'4"
Weight: 332 lbs

College: ALABAMA
(Samuel's alma mater)

Overall Rank: 12
Position Rank: 3

Overall Football Traits

Production 1

Started every game (49) of his three-year career at Alabama (2006-'08) prior to his suspension for the 2009 Sugar Bowl. A consensus All-American and Outland Trophy winner as a junior in 2008.

Height-Weight-Speed 2
Adequate height for a tackle. Massive wide-body who could stand to lose a few pounds in the interest of improving his agility.

Durability 2
Some concern regarding potential weight issues. However, he never missed a game due to injury during three seasons as fulltime starter for the Crimson Tide. (Even #1 Jason Smith had MCL surgery).

Character 4
Had no off the field issues during vast majority of his playing career at Alabama and coaches/teammates speak highly of him as a person. But no player has come under more scrutiny than Smith during the pre-draft process. First, he has suspended for 2009 Sugar Bowl vs. Utah for improper dealings with an agent. Second, he showed up to the combine out of shape and unsure if he was to workout. Third, he chose not to workout and left the combine early while failing to announce it to his group leader.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:14 AM | Report abuse


Offensive Tackle specific Traits

Strength/Toughness 2
Massive OT prospect. Thickly built. Good upper-body strength and elite lower-body strength. Can create a new line of scrimmage in the run game and can anchor versus powerful bull rushers when set in pass pro. Rarely loses a battle at the point of attack. Plays with a mean streak at times but is a bit inconsistent with his motor.

Agility 3
Displays good initial quickness and agility for his size. Shuffles well laterally when coming out of his stance and when working in one direction (either right or left). But he struggles when asked to change directions. He will occasionally be a step late getting into position as a second-level blocker. He lunges a lot when moving forward and struggles to recover.

Awareness 2
Shows adequate-to-good awareness. Understands assignments and picks up the blitz consistently (from an awareness standpoint). If he misses an assignment it's almost always due to physical, not mental. He knows the angles and where he's supposed to be almost always. He will stick with a play and find someone to hit if the ball carrier changes direction back his way.

Pass Protection 3 Can anchor versus top bull rushers when he's set with leverage. Shows adequate quickness in his pass pro set. Usually gets in position to protect the edge initially, but doesn't show ideal mirror-and-slide skills. Struggles to adjust to quick second-move (See: first series versus Kentucky  when working against #51). Falls off far too many blocks. Doesn't jar DE's with his hand punch as effectively as he should.

Run Blocking 1
Motor runs hot and cold but he can be overpowering at the point of attack when he wants to be. Takes solid angles and is almost always in position if the block is at the line of scrimmage. Shows good upper-body power and even stronger in the lower body. Drives defenders off the line of scrimmage. A small concern here is that he sometimes is a bit slow getting into position as a second-level run blocker.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:14 AM | Report abuse

"Alex Boone Scouting Report.
Blocked Brian Orakpo in Senior Bowl.

(You can see a lot of disinformation online about this, but it is what happened.)

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | April 7, 2009"

Drunk driving? Drunken Misdemeanor? That's two not one? Plus lacks agility and "finesses" his run blocking? Uh ... no ....

Murtha had rare top-end speed, agility, and is intelligent. Needs some work with strength/toughness. But seems "Heyer-like" and so a better bet to step up to starter level at least at guard. The difference is he has many more natural physical skills to work with ... unlike Heyer.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Don't bring up Davis because...I have no idea why they burned the pick on him with Cooley on the roster. How does Davis get much action unless Cooley sits?

What do you think of a guy like Greg Carr (WR FSU 6'6" 218) as a late rounder (6th) prospect. I don't know how you cover that guy running fades and outs for first downs and TD's

Posted by: edvar | April 7, 2009

Davis makes sense because he can be more of a blocker at the point of attack. Replaces Sellers in the passing game.

Cooley becomes more of a possession receiver replacing ARE if Devin Thomas steps up and becomes a legit deep threat. Thomas doesn't have to catch 60-100 passes a year. They already have that in Cooley and Moss. They need a guy who can catch 30-40 for big gains, to "decoy" the DB's away from Moss and Cooley, then when they come in to focus on those two, Campbell puts the ball into Thomas.

Malcolm Kelly is a replacement for ARE. Won't happen because his injuries will never allow it. He is headed for the IR, an eventual release.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Gregory Carr | WR
Scouts Inc. Grade: 30
Height: 6'5"
Weight: 212 lbs

College: FLORIDA STATE
Position Rank: 40

Overall Football Traits

Production 2
Carr appeared in 12 games during his true freshman season in 2005 finishing with nine touchdown-receptions, 30 receptions and 618 receiving yards. He appeared in all 13 games of the 2006 season finishing with 12 touchdown-receptions, 34 receptions and 619 receiving yards. Carr started seven of the 12 games he appeared in during the 2007 season finishing with four touchdown-receptions, 45 receptions and 795 receiving yards. He also missed one game with an injury in 2007 (see durability). 2008: Carr plays in 13 games and finishes with 39 receptions for 542 yards and four scores.

Height-Weight-Speed 3
Though he would do well to add some weight, his prototypical height gives him room to do so. Timed-speed is below average, even for his size.

Durability 2
Carr missed one game with a wrist injury in 2001 but he has stayed relatively healthy otherwise.

Character 3
Carr plays hard and has steadily progressed over the course of his first three seasons at Florida State. Still, he has yet to reach his full potential and it doesn't seem like he pays great attention to details.

Wide Receiver specific Traits

Separation Skills 4
Long-strider who rounds too many routes off and doesn't explode out of cuts. Will build speed as he goes and uses size to create separation in tight quarters. But he isn't as physical at the line as size suggests and can get slowed down working against press coverage. Does a decent job of locating seams when reads zone coverage.

Ball Skills 4
Shows adequate body control for his size and flashes the ability to make acrobatic catches but doesn't always time jumps well. Traps ball with pads rather than snatching it out of the air and can drop passes that should catch.

Vertical Speed 4
A fluid long-strider who will win some jump balls. But he lacks good top-end speed and he takes too long to get in top-gear.

Run After Catch 4
Runs hard but isn't going to make many defenders miss in the open field and doesn't show great explosiveness after the catch.

Competitiveness and Toughness 3 Inconsistent blocker that plays with a narrow base and isn't physical enough but has made some strides in this area. Gets adequate hand placement and works at sustaining once locked on. While needs to time jumps better competes for jump balls knows how to get away with subtly pushing off. Isn't afraid to go over the middle and can hold onto the ball after taking the big hit. (see third quarter touchdown catch against UAB in 2007)

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:36 AM | Report abuse

I'd try this guy as a replacement for James Thrash and ARE: (note the height, durability,
and intelligence [read: ability to learn offensive systems.] ).

Ramses Barden | WR
Scouts Inc. Grade: 56

Height: 6'6"
Weight: 229 lbs

College: CAL POLY, SLO

Position Rank: 22

Overall Football Traits

Production 2
2004: Cal Poly red shirts Barden. 2005-'08: Barden starts 46 consecutive games. He catches a total of 206 passes for a total of 4,203 yards and 78 touchdowns. His numbers are impressive but lower level of competition is factored into production grade.

Height-Weight-Speed 2
Prototypical height and bulk but marginal top-end speed.

Durability 1
Four-year starter that didn't miss any games with injuries.

Character 1
Shows great worth ethic both on and off the field.

Wide Receiver specific Traits

Separation Skills 4
Size is built-in separation. Uses wide frame to shield defenders from the ball and wins a lot of jump balls. Takes too long to get in and out of breaks. Had problems separating from man coverage at the Senior Bowl and going to have an even harder time separating from man coverage in the NFL. Likely to have problems getting a clean release working against press coverage.

Ball Skills 2
Big hands (10.5') and long arms (33.6'). Good body control and can adjust to poorly thrown ball. Plucks the ball out of the air and away from his frame. Can catch balls thrown over his head. Occasional lapses in focus result in atypical drops.

Vertical Speed 3
Doesn't show a second gear when tracking the ball downfield and can't stretch the field when gets slowed down at the line of scrimmage. However, steadily builds speed and tracks the ball well so more of a vertical threat the timed speed suggests.

Run After Catch 4
Catches the ball in stride, smooth turning upfield and tough to bring down in the open field. Can ruin defenders' pursuit angles with long strides but not elusive enough to make defenders miss and lacks breakaway speed.

Competitiveness and Toughness 2
Not afraid to go over the middle, throws weight around and fights for the ball when isn't able to separate from coverage. Adequate stalk blocker. Could work harder to sustain blocks but he does a better-than-adequate job of getting into position and shielding defenders off.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:44 AM | Report abuse

"If I read correctly, Dan told Campbell during their meeting that he didn't think JC was a franchise QB."

And I believe you have misread the situation.

Had they truly believed JC wasn't a franchise QB, and had acquiring a franchise QB been their ultimate goal, Campbell would no longer be on the roster. They would have traded him for whatever draft pick they could muster, signed a short-term starter for this and possibly next season (any one of the guys mentioned earlier would fit this bill), and they would have moved on without Campbell.

But they didn't do that.

If your assumption of them not believing Campbell was a franchise QB was true, then they would have stuck with Campbell despite (1) him not being the best short-term option at the position -- that distinction belongs to Warner, and (2) him not providing any future value to the franchise -- while a draft pick, any draft pick, would have. That's the absolute worst possible decision they could have made with regards to Campbell, if your assumption held true.

And while I think both Snyder and Cerrato have major deficiencies decision-wise, neither of them is THAT dense to understand the basic logic of expected value. They know that Campbell has a legitimate shot to become a franchise QB for this team. And that's why he's still the starting QB here.

So while I agree that they are giving Campbell one more year as of right now, and while I agree that Campbell has to show more than just incremental improvement, they are NOT simply "riding out this season".

Posted by: psps23 | April 7, 2009 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis, TE
2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 20 | Key

An athletic tight end with good quickness and adequate speed for the position. Does a good job of avoiding the jam at the line and shows good release quickness. He has long arms and big hands. He has excellent ball skills and can go up and snatch the ball at its highest point. Very reliable short-to-intermediate receiver. Doesn't let the ball get into his pads often and shows very good hand-eye coordination for his position. He can pluck on the run and gets upfield quickly. Displays a knack for finding open windows on short-to-intermediate routes. Is fast enough to occasionally stretch the seam vertically. Will consistently separate from SLB's one-on-one. He has a quick first step as a run blocker and generally takes good angles. Shows good body control in space as a blocker and does an outstanding job of hitting the moving target on the second-level. Uses leverage to his advantage, displays adequate upper-body strength and works hard to sustain his blocks once locked on. He has been durable and reliable throughout his career. Continues to improve with more experience and is a hard worker with solid overall intangibles.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Chris Cooley, TE
2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 80 | Key

He doesn't have the ideal size, but he is a good overall athlete. Cooley is a very good receiver who has good burst into routes and he runs good patterns. He shows very good overall quickness and body control. He has good agility at the breaks to separate then pick up the ball quick with eyes coming out of breaks. He has very good adjustment skills and competes for the ball to make tough catches. He will pluck the ball cleanly on the run and has speed and strength after the catch. He can weave through defenders and has good vision. He plays with confidence and good concentration on all types of routes. He can stretch the field vertically as well as work effectively underneath. He doesn't have great timed speed, but he plays fast. As a run blocker, he has trouble sustaining versus defensive ends at the point of attack, but he attacks with good quickness. He has good balance and body control, but is missing strength to create movement or stay engaged. He gives very good effort, shows toughness and he will battle. In pass protection he has good balance initially to set and slide. He lacks strength when defenders gets outside his frame.

Comparing the blocking the portion of Davis scouting report:

Shows good body control in space as a blocker and does an outstanding job of hitting the moving target on the second-level. Uses leverage to his advantage, displays adequate upper-body strength and works hard to sustain his blocks once locked on. He has been durable and reliable throughout his career. Continues to improve with more experience and is a hard worker with solid overall intangibles.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:51 AM | Report abuse

Hands
Looks the ball in and snatches away from pads when at all possible. Shows ability to pluck on the run, catch over the shoulder and adjust to the poorly thrown pass. Makes the tough catches in traffic.

Best in wide receiver class: Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma.
Best in tight end class: Fred Davis, USC.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 1:55 AM | Report abuse

So while I agree that they are giving Campbell one more year as of right now, and while I agree that Campbell has to show more than just incremental improvement, they are NOT simply "riding out this season".

Posted by: psps23 | April 7, 2009

Based on Snidely's increased involvement, and the "style" in which free agency has been approached, I would say he has now taken back the reigns from Vinny. And Campbell isn't the only one on "probation" ... as was earlier reported so too is Zorn and Snidely's handball partner Vinny.

If they have a bad year ... they are all done.

The only way they will have a good year is if Vinny trades down and does an excellent job with some of the off-the-radar picks.

He needs to focus as much on character, aggressiveness, and intelligence as anything else. He needs guys who can step up this year and contribute to save his job.

Posted by: periculum | April 7, 2009 2:02 AM | Report abuse

attention all JC haters: all you folks not seeing the potential to shine this season with a decent OL is amusing to me. it's like some of you want him to fail.now where have I heard that logic before? is it just coincidental that you also believe any and everything in the media minus the true details. that 31 other teams didn't want JC comment isn't worth responding to. no wonder you have to keep re-posting it. btw, cutler (not hating here) played in a wack division and any gm who stepped in it and can come out smelling like a rose with the loot he stole has my respect. talk about landing on your feet and with trinkets. HAIL SKINS!

Posted by: jenksredskins | April 7, 2009 2:09 AM | Report abuse

Another thing I don't get is Zorn's insistence on having punters that can hold the ball for field goals. For most teams in the league, this is done by the backup quarterback. I don't understand this because it limits a team in two ways: 1) You have to find a punter that is not only good at punting but also at holding - you probably give up something in one category to get in another. 2) If you want to fake a field goal are you going to have some limp armed punter throw a pass to a receiver down field? It limits you on trick plays as well.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | April 7, 2009 2:48 AM | Report abuse

Tom Boswell: The only problem with the Redskins, as a topic, is that they do the same things over and over and over. If they were actually successful __just once__ with this Buy A Trip to the Super Bowl act, then the cycle would be broken. Then the redundant beat-a-derad-horse aspect would disappear. They really are a fascinating saga. But I think you have to be from Washington __or have lived here a while__ to get it. When I'm 1,000 miles from here and the Redskins come up, they are always dismissed as a Snyder joke, a non-contender, an expensive .500 object lesson in poor management, a cliche that only interests DC.

Sobering. And annoying.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 7, 2009 3:54 AM | Report abuse

Another thing I don't get is Zorn's insistence on having punters that can hold the ball for field goals. For most teams in the league, this is done by the backup quarterback. I don't understand this because it limits a team in two ways: 1) You have to find a punter that is not only good at punting but also at holding - you probably give up something in one category to get in another. 2) If you want to fake a field goal are you going to have some limp armed punter throw a pass to a receiver down field? It limits you on trick plays as well.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | April 7, 2009 2:48 AM

Dude, look around...Zorn is far from the only coach doing this. Gibbs did it when he was here and I'd venture to guess that half the teams in the league do it too. After the Tony Romo gaffe in the playoffs a few years back, most teams decided it was better to have a full time holder instead of using a backup QB worried about a dozen other things related to, you know, playing QB. And who better than the punter who has no other responsibility than to drop kick a football a few times?

Besides, if you run 100 XP/FG plays in a season, you'll fake maybe once or twice if at all--not worth tying up a QB to hold in practice when he could be taking reps at QB. QBs should be focused on being ready to play if their number is called.

Zorn has screwed up a number of things, but having a full-time holder isn't one of them.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:09 AM | Report abuse

And just a random thought: if I'm Jason Campbell I ball out of my mind in '09, tell Snyder to shove it up all 6 of his Flags heading into 2010, and make a beeline for Carolina in the offseason. Delhomme is in the last year of his deal and unless the Panthers take a QB in the 1st round this year, they'll need a QB like JC to complement that great rushing attack. Then watch the Panthers become the present day 80s Redskins. You heard it here first...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:21 AM | Report abuse

And just a random thought: if I'm Jason Campbell I ball out of my mind in '09, tell Snyder to shove it up all 6 of his Flags heading into 2010, and make a beeline for Carolina in the offseason. Delhomme is in the last year of his deal and unless the Panthers take a QB in the 1st round this year, they'll need a QB like JC to complement that great rushing attack. Then watch the Panthers become the present day 80s Redskins. You heard it here first...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:21 AM |

If the Skins want to keep him they will, they can use the Franchise tag.

If the NFL goes uncapped he will be a RFA, and we can match any offer.

If he is having a good year, Snyder will pay him, and he would be very smart to take the money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 6:37 AM | Report abuse

If he is having a good year, Snyder will pay him, and he would be very smart to take the money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 6:37 AM

You give Snyder A LOT of credit on this...when has he ever paid top dollar to a born and bred Redskin? And the franchise tag will be at least $14-15 million--when have the Skins ever had that kind of space at any one time? They usually have to restructure and cut guys just to get a few million under the cap!

I think it goes like this: Snyder lowballs JC, Campbell says "thanks, but no thanks", leaves the team with no viable QB option, and makes the Panthers 2010 NFC South champs while the Skins pull a Ditka and trade their entire 2010 draft to move up and take Sam Bradford. It's the wackiest thing that comes to mind which means the Skins will do it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:55 AM | Report abuse

You give Snyder A LOT of credit on this...when has he ever paid top dollar to a born and bred Redskin? And the franchise tag will be at least $14-15 million--when have the Skins ever had that kind of space at any one time? They usually have to restructure and cut guys just to get a few million under the cap!

I think it goes like this: Snyder lowballs JC, Campbell says "thanks, but no thanks", leaves the team with no viable QB option, and makes the Panthers 2010 NFC South champs while the Skins pull a Ditka and trade their entire 2010 draft to move up and take Sam Bradford. It's the wackiest thing that comes to mind which means the Skins will do it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:55 AM |

Well lets see Jansen and Samuels, he would have given ST21 a huge contract.

Name me players we have had that deserved big contracts, and please don't say Pierce and Clark. They are both good players but arn't making big money where they are now.

What has JC17 done here, that would make you think he can lead a team to a championship?

Have the Skins ever traded there entire draft, to move up and take someone before?

As I recall it has only happened once, and we where the team smart enough to be on the other end of the deal getting all the picks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 7:19 AM | Report abuse

JC will have a great year this season barring injury and some OL strength. all this talk about JC having to do this and that is preposterous. the great thing for real skins fans is his character and loyalty to even want to be here.GM's are supposed to make good buisness decisions (opposite of skins front office) alot based upon the cap. Snyder is not afraid to toy with the cap situation. Jason has a cannon and is fine tuning his craft. smart GM's around the league know he is a diamond in the rough, and the OL/messed up play calling/H Coach time mgmt screw ups that went on here last year. Hail Skins!

Posted by: jenksredskins | April 7, 2009 7:29 AM | Report abuse

As I recall it has only happened once, and we where the team smart enough to be on the other end of the deal getting all the picks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 7:19 AM

Never underestimate the Redskins undervalue of draft picks...if they spent 3 picks to take Campbell, what do you think they'd give up for a shot at Bradford?

Anyways...Samuels, Jansen and Taylor (which I'll grant you even though that's total speculation) are all no-brainer resignings who have ranked as the top 5 to 10 players at their position. As much as I like JC, I doubt he'll be considered a top 5 QB this year. And that's pretty much the only way I think Campbell is back.

And just because Campbell doesn't deserve a $100 million contract doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be the QB here. Ryan Clark didn't deserve big money, but if they offered him even half of what they gave Archuleta he would have stayed and it would have been comparable to what Clark got in Pittsburgh. Paying Pierce what Fletcher got would have kept him here. It's not that they aren't willing to pay their guys, it's that they undervalue their own and overvalue guys in other uniforms. If Campbell played nice ball elsewhere and came on the market next year, they'd be falling all over themselves to get him here--guaranteed.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=4045554

Interesting article about Todd C & B. Leftwich.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | April 7, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

They went out and got Wynn and kept Daniels at DE. Two pieces of duct tape. Evans was better than either of them -- and younger and healthier.
Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I was all for resigning DEvans, but he was not better than PDaniels. Who was the starter in 2007 and at the start of '08 training camp? Daniels. Evans was solid, and younger. But better? No.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 7, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

My criticism of signing Albert is really limited to the 'too many eggs, too few baskets' area. In the NFC East, its a position worth paying a premium price to ahve a beast in the middle.

Also, losing Springs isn't as harmful now that plax and to are both gone. Springs matched up against those guys better than anyone else on the team. Now that the NFC East is devoid of good WRs, our secondary should look pretty good.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree with your points, but I don't think we are overspending on Hansie. I think his cap hit is similar to Jared Allen of the Vikes. The risk is if he gets hurt. Always a possibility. But when he is playing, I don't think there is any better.

Yes, when playing, SSprings was our best cover, especially against the big wr's. But he wasn't able to stay on the field, so that his salary was just not justified. He has signed for less than half what we would have had to pay him. That's a value issue.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 7, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised to Wynn and Daniels on the field together at the DE positions when we play run heavy or so-so QB teams. Or see Monty or Alexander at DE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse
Yes, I've been thinking that Alexander could be very effective at DE, much like Evans last year. Carter could become more of a 3rd down/passing situation DE.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 7, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

I think it goes like this: Snyder lowballs JC, Campbell says "thanks, but no thanks", leaves the team with no viable QB option, and makes the Panthers 2010 NFC South champs while the Skins pull a Ditka and trade their entire 2010 draft to move up and take Sam Bradford. It's the wackiest thing that comes to mind which means the Skins will do it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:55 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not so wacky brownwood... 1 starter out of 10 picks last year. Why not? 3 possible Franchise QB's in the top ten picks for 2010 (Bradford, Tebow, McCoy?).
However, Skins still need to find a dominant WR to relieve Moss and a replacement for Jansen. As one poster said earlier.. Stack Portis, double Moss, bull rush the blind side and watch JC try to get to the second progression Read in only 2 seconds while he pats and pumps the ball and then throws it away or takes one of 35+ sacks. Sounds like 2008 all over again.

Different team same outcome ref the WR;
Look at the Gints the last 5 games of the season without Burress. No second progression threat for Eli, Gints offense collapses.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Sad but true, SkinsneedaGM. But your post brings to mind another question: how long before rumors fly of Danny and Vinny sniffing around Burress?

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

'...And just a random thought: if I'm Jason Campbell I ball out of my mind in '09, tell Snyder to shove it up all 6 of his Flags heading into 2010..'

This, I believe, is a distinct possibility.

But Campbell is also a guy who has what us southerners call 'home-training.' Meaning where he may hate how he's been treated by the FO, he's also man enough to forgive and forget and move on.

And more than anything, if Campbell does return after a good to great season, the fanbase too has to grant him an extension.

We blame Snyder while we too have have put a knife his Campbell's back. JC is our McNabb, and like McNabb, all he hears is what he hasn't done, while we ignore the degrees of difficulty--3 new systems, sitting behind Brunell for no true reason, middling recievers, poor o-line-- he has had to overcome.

The redskins' fans are hungry for a quarterback who year in and year out can provide hope. Constantly hating on a guy who's been humble, respectful, diligent, and hardworking is just as bad as the owner trying to dump him for some other team's immature young star.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

The Truth is the Jay-Z of the Redskins Insider blog.

No matter how much you hate 'em, you know THE GAME is better with him.


Admit it punks.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | April 7, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

'...how long before rumors fly of Danny and Vinny sniffing around Burress?'

And if they do a little 'sniffing,' would anybody complain?

Burress playing opposite Moss/Cooley suddenly takes a guy out of the box.

Hate to say it, but maybe the skins checking out Burress or Torry Holt is a good thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

We blame Snyder while we too have have put a knife his Campbell's back. JC is our McNabb, and like McNabb, all he hears is what he hasn't done, while we ignore the degrees of difficulty--3 new systems, sitting behind Brunell for no true reason, middling recievers, poor o-line-- he has had to overcome.

The redskins' fans are hungry for a quarterback who year in and year out can provide hope. Constantly hating on a guy who's been humble, respectful, diligent, and hardworking is just as bad as the owner trying to dump him for some other team's immature young star.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 8:33 AM

I disagree...most Skins fans I know are behind Campbell and like the guy. It's lunatics like "Sports_Guru" that think he's somehow the problem here. And NEVER compare Skins fans to Eagles fans--those Philly people are so far removed from reality it's stunning.

I think the big problem is that people look at teams with elite QBs and want that for their team. But folks need to remember that the reality is that you don't HAVE to have an elite QB to win. If you put a good team together around him, any competant QB can win. Elite QBs can make up for deficiencies elsewhere and it's obviously a good thing to have, but if you've got a good one you don't let him go simply because he's not the best. Snyder should remember that you could do a whole lot worse than Campbell and shouldn't do anything to find out how.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

If Plax gets out of the 30+ criminal charges that he has against him right now I would not be shocked to see the skins sniff around and give a vet minimum offer, maybe a vet min contract with a average signing bonus, or a keep your nose clean bonus. Are teams allowed to put that in a contract? A financial incentive for keeping out of trouble?

Posted by: alex35332 | April 7, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

"And if they do a little 'sniffing,' would anybody complain?"

If we're talking Burress, then yeah, I'm complaining. No thank you, regardless of his skill level, I don't want that guy on this team. If they're going after a guy, I'd rather they went after Holt. Burress got something like 5 traffic infractions in Florida in ONE MONTH, in either March, or in Feb.

Again, no thanks....

Tough start moe, offense looks good though...not that you guys struggle on offense however....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 7, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

'...Malcolm Kelly will have a solid season...'


Hope so.

Perhaps Mr. La Canfora will his progress a major topic once OTA's and whatnot get under way.

The skins' receiving corp could use a big, fast body opposite Moss/Cooley.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Sad but true, SkinsneedaGM. But your post brings to mind another question: how long before rumors fly of Danny and Vinny sniffing around Burress?

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 8:28 AM

If Florio hasn't already posted it on PFT, then it's probably not going to happen.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 7, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

beantown

'...Tough start moe, offense looks good though...not that you guys struggle on offense however....'


I'm not worried about April.

With our teams, October is the only month that matters.

I still think that kid Gardner will be AL Rookie of the Year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I think the big problem is that people look at teams with elite QBs and want that for their team. But folks need to remember that the reality is that you don't HAVE to have an elite QB to win. If you put a good team together around him, any competant QB can win.
Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 8:48 AM

Skins still need to find a dominant WR to relieve Moss and a replacement for Jansen. As one poster said earlier.. Stack Portis, double Moss, bull rush the blind side and watch JC try to get to the second progression Read in only 2 seconds while he pats and pumps the ball and then throws it away or takes one of 35+ sacks. Sounds like 2008 all over again.

Different team same outcome ref the WR;
Look at the Gints the last 5 games of the season without Burress. No second progression threat for Eli, Gints offense collapses.

Sad but true, SkinsneedaGM. But your post brings to mind another question: how long before rumors fly of Danny and Vinny sniffing around Burress?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have seen footages of Rypien with Monk and Clark. Rypien proved at the Rams that he was a "system" QB.. without the Hogs and two dominant WR's he was Campbell.
Cutler may be the same..Chicago will reveal his true skills because they dont have the OL that Denver does.

Bottom line, in a Cap environment, Vinny and Danny have to decide if they upgrade the cast around a mediocre QB or upgrade the QB to pull up a mediocre cast.
How good was Bethard? No one knows because he didnt have a cap..and could stockpile players for depth and Jack Cooke paid for it. I always thought Gibbs retired the first time because he saw the Cap coming and knew personnel NFL parity was not far behind.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

'...The Truth is the Jay-Z of the Redskins Insider blog...'


Well, let me dust your shoulders off.

You seem to have forgotten that there's no love in the heart of the city.

Claiming to be Hova when his woman Beyonce outsells him proves only that you're living a hard knock life.

Moe, like Lil Wayne, is the duffle bag boy they all cry for as what he eats is what makes this blog sh!t.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

moe/truth, I wont pretend to know, or care for that matter, what you guys are speaking of.....

moe, yeah, 161 left, lots of games to play....I'm hopeful that the weather holds off for today's game....they do this EVERY year...and why I'm not sure. They should start all the NorthEast teams, Yanks, Sox, on the road for about 2-3 weeks, then bring them home for the end of the month....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 7, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Vinny and Danny have to decide if they upgrade the cast around a mediocre QB or upgrade the QB to pull up a mediocre cast.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 9:04 AM

Who said Campbell is mediocre? The whole point is that you don't know how good Campbell is because he's not been giving a full chance to prove himself. 2 1/2 seasons isn't enough to evaluate that position. Drew Brees was pretty mediocre his first couple of years. And when San Diego lost patience early they took Rivers and watched Brees blow up into a full blown star. If the Skins put a team around JC you might see a similar situation.

But then again A.J. Smith has turds that evaluate talent better than Vinny, so I guess it's all moot...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

moe, yeah, 161 left, lots of games to play....I'm hopeful that the weather holds off for today's game....they do this EVERY year...and why I'm not sure. They should start all the NorthEast teams, Yanks, Sox, on the road for about 2-3 weeks, then bring them home for the end of the month....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 7, 2009 9:13 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


yes to that.. except for the possibility of a long on-the-road losing streak.. Had my neighbors up here in NE, come home pssd off, wet and drunk from Cask after yesterday's game was called. Sox are playing at 4 today and we got tix!! Cant wait to freeze my arse off..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I thought Haynesworth was going to play LDE on passing plays like he did for the Titans...

If so, then Daniels and/or Wynn could play DT on passing plays...

Alexander will see most of his playing time on special teams and as a hybrid pass blocking OL/TE.

Posted by: siris | April 7, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

skins congrats on scoring tix to the game....dress warm....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 7, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

If he is having a good year, Snyder will pay him, and he would be very smart to take the money.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 6:37 AM

You give Snyder A LOT of credit on this...when has he ever paid top dollar to a born and bred Redskin? And the franchise tag will be at least $14-15 million--when have the Skins ever had that kind of space at any one time? They usually have to restructure and cut guys just to get a few million under the cap!

I think it goes like this: Snyder lowballs JC, Campbell says "thanks, but no thanks", leaves the team with no viable QB option, and makes the Panthers 2010 NFC South champs while the Skins pull a Ditka and trade their entire 2010 draft to move up and take Sam Bradford. It's the wackiest thing that comes to mind which means the Skins will do it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 6:55 AM

I don't understand. How will JC17 get to Carolina?

Next year is looking like an unCAPped year. He'll be a restricted free agent, which will pay him in the $7-9 Mil range (off top of my head). Or if his year is that great, we'll franchise tag him and either sign him or trade him.

But, why would he go somewhere else so he can start the same ol same ol, 'This is my 10 offense in 6 years' routine?

Irregardless of what happens with JC17 this season, Vinny and Snyder hold all the cards and JC17 holds nada.

(As evidence by this failed trade. Cutty had 10 teams inqiure about him. We couldn't give JC17 away for a 3rd round draft pick. Since he is not in high demand, he has no leverage to whine like
Cutty)

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 7, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

I think the big problem is that people look at teams with elite QBs and want that for their team. But folks need to remember that the reality is that you don't HAVE to have an elite QB to win. If you put a good team together around him, any competant QB can win. Elite QBs can make up for deficiencies elsewhere and it's obviously a good thing to have, but if you've got a good one you don't let him go simply because he's not the best. Snyder should remember that you could do a whole lot worse than Campbell and shouldn't do anything to find out how.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse
I agree, Brownie. There are by definition only about 5 "elite QB's" in the league. If every QB was elite, they wouldn't be elite, they would be average.

JC is clearly in my mind in the top 16, maybe top dozen in the league. He has dramatically reduced to's, both fumbles and INT's. He can hit an open receiver. He doesn't force the ball into coverage. Some people criticize him for that. There are times when he needs to, if we are losing in 4th Q, sometimes on 3rd downs.

JC is not the problem for our O. OL needs to be shored up, with a starter or two. That would solve a lot of our scoring problems.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 7, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder told Campbell he wants him to become a franchise quarterback, Campbell said, but he has not reached that level yet in Snyder's opinion. After the Redskins failed to qualify for the playoffs last season, Cerrato declined to commit to Campbell as the team's quarterback beyond the upcoming season." TWP, 4/4/09

psp23, I don't think I have misread the situation. You just read it from the horses mouth. Dan told JC to his face that he is not a franchise QB. Campbell is still on the roster because he is the "short-term starter" of which you speak. He's on a one-year deal right now. What makes you think Warner was even an option. He turned down more money from the 49ers to re-sign with the Cards. And I don't believe the Skins could afford Warner anyway.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 7, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Who said Campbell is mediocre? The whole point is that you don't know how good Campbell is because he's not been giving a full chance to prove himself. 2 1/2 seasons isn't enough to evaluate that position. Drew Brees was pretty mediocre his first couple of years. And when San Diego lost patience early they took Rivers and watched Brees blow up into a full blown star. If the Skins put a team around JC you might see a similar situation.

But then again A.J. Smith has turds that evaluate talent better than Vinny, so I guess it's all moot...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 7, 2009 9:17 AM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You may be right. Campbell may be a great QB when given more than 2 seconds to throw... I agree, we really dont know until then..
However, for now, I can only reference the the 2007 season when Campbell went out injured with a 4 game losing streak and a 75ish rating and Collins came in with the same cast (OL and WR) and had a 106 rating and hadnt started a game in 10 years. Made the playoffs and seem unstoppable until the Heyer substitution in Seattle ended the season. OlaY Kearney.

Yes, I know Coillins knew the system but, Campbell had 2 years prior (albeit one year on the bench) to learn the same Gibbs/Saunders system. In 08, Matt Ryan, Flacco and Chad Pennington sorta put this "new system learning curve" theory to rest.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

#1 - JC17 had more than 2 secs to throw the ball. The further the season gets, the shorter the memories get. Beware the ides of Spurrier, I say.

#2 - Heyer may have allowed a few sacks, but he did not lose that game. It was a collective team lost. There were alot of things that went wrong in the 2nd half. Off/DEF/STs collectively.

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 7, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"Dan told JC to his face that he is not a franchise QB..."

learnedhand1,

It's ok, though, JC17 will not falter. He will not pout or demand to be traded. JC17 knows he is a franchise Qb, leader of his team, one that his teammates expect him to lead. He knows Dan doesn't like him, but he doesn't share the field with Dan. Dan doesn't work out with the team. I understand the strength of the almighty pen and check, but I could give two sh|ts about what Dan thinks.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 7, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

From nfl.com/

[Ben Hornseth, Vienna, VA
02:20 PM ET

"Can you see the redskins trading Jason Campbell on draft day?"

Carucci_small
Vic Carucci, Senior Writer, NFL.com

"I can see that, but I'd have to know who they then would turn to as a starting quarterback. Right now, I don't think they're satisfied they have his replacement. Showing interest in Jay Cutler was one thing. Trading Campbell just to trade him wouldn't make sense to me until I see the rest of the plan to fill the starting spot."]

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 7, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

This Campbell talk is so stale, so boring, so repetitive. People keep saying the same things, over and over and over. I haven't read an original thought on Campbell since the season ended.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | April 7, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

beantown

'...They should start all the NorthEast teams, Yanks, Sox, on the road for about 2-3 weeks, then bring them home for the end of the month....'


Makes sense to me, too.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 7, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I was watching the 2002 Playoff game between Titans/Steelers.

This was Haynesworth rookie year and he was beasting out!

Though, he did get an untimely unessecessary roughness call late in the 4th when he wrapped up the RB 3 yards in the backfield and drove him back because dude was still moving his legs. HAynesworth then picked him up and slammed him to the ground head 1st.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 7, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

that response contradicts itself. Yes he can see the team trading campbell, but doesn't know who the qb would then be?? Right.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | April 7, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

So what's up with the tampering thing?


Speaking of yanks... what's good with Carsten Charles? It's only his first start in stripes but I hope for the sake of his mental stability he can get it together before the season ends, or join the other Yankee FA choke artist. I think he'll be straight though...

Glad the 'skins didn't give up the picks for Cutler, but would've liked to see him in D.C., I think he's better than Campbell - right now.


I really hate kickers. Kickers = Pitchers

You can have "it" one minute, then it's gone just like that.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 7, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder told Campbell he wants him to become a franchise quarterback, Campbell said, but he has not reached that level yet in Snyder's opinion."

Alright, I took your meaning more at your insinuation rather than your explicit words. He did tell Campbell he wasn't a franchise QB...yet. That does not mean he is here purely as a short-term starter, or as a placeholder as the team rides the season out.

"Snyder told Campbell he wants him to become a franchise quarterback"

Which speaks precisely to what I was saying. He is not a simple placeholder or a one-year starter at the position. He's being given a 'final exam' of sorts. No, he hasn't been committed to, as he shouldn't by an owner unsure of his future prospects. But that doesn't mean he WON'T be committed to, or the owner is SURE that he will never be a franchise QB.

As any business-man would understand, he wants to get the most out of his investments. If he knew he was just going to dump Campbell after this season anyway, he would have traded him for whatever he could get, and instead ride the season out with TC or bring in a Jeff Garcia as a one-year starter (which would have (1) saved money against the cap, and (2) given the team future value). But he didn't. Because he knows Campbell has the goods. He simply isn't sure if they'll fully realize. He's giving him one last season to find out.

As far as Warner, you should know by now, but every player that hits the market is an option for the Washington Redskins. Especially one who was looking to paid, as Warner did with the Cards. They spent $200 million on contracts this offseason. They had money for Warner. Only Snyder didn't budge for Warner, just as he didn't budge for Garcia or Collins or Cassel or Leftwich, except as a back-up.

Posted by: psps23 | April 7, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

vic curruci -

'well if rex grossman were to come available....I can see that'

lol

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 7, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

If they traded Campbell, would it have to involve another QB? Maybe they like their chances with Collins or Brennan, or maybe looking to add one through the draft or undrafted FA.

It seems that there are other needs, pressing needs, if not this year than at least the next two years following this coming season. Seems like because of age, more than ever they should be looking to stockplie draft picks.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 7, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Latest on Skins/Titans?

Latest on Golston's tender?

Latest on Giff's shoulder?

Is there any way we could get a list off potential draftees that have visited or have scheduled a visit at redskins park?

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Carucci_small
Vic Carucci, Senior Writer, NFL.com

"I can see that, but I'd have to know who they then would turn to as a starting quarterback. Right now, I don't think they're satisfied they have his replacement. Showing interest in Jay Cutler was one thing. Trading Campbell just to trade him wouldn't make sense to me until I see the rest of the plan to fill the starting spot."]

Posted by: AllThatSkins | April 7, 2009 9:55 AM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Snyder's Campbell investment so far,..

Gave up 3 picks in 05 (when he probably didnt have to) to get Campbell in the last pick of the 1st round.

4 years of 20 Million dollars+ (bonus +). First two years were mostly on the bench.

Opted to select an inexperienced (never called one Off play before) Head Coach because he had QB coaching credentials which hopefully would "pull up" JC into a Franchise QB. Bypassing other available experienced Head Coaches..

All this in mind.. How hard must it of been for Snyder to offer JC for a second round pick (according to WaPo and NFL.com), to obtain a package for the Cutler deal? He can thank the Pats for that (Cassell to the Chiefs for a Second).

And no one knows.. It may turn out to be the best Deal Snyder NEVER made.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 7, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 7, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I agree with your points, but I don't think we are overspending on Hansie.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 7, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

What is he, a Danish preschooler? How cute freddie.

p.s. just messing with ya. and moreover I tend to agree. we may have paid more than the market bore out (shocker), but I think he will earn that money.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 7, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

How 'bout them O birds, first place baby!! Hey, it may not last long. Let me enjoy it while I can.

F THE YANKEES. F JACKIE

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | April 7, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

We have needed to upgrade at kicker for year's. I dont know why it is always overlooked.

Posted by: hank7216 | April 7, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

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