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Position Battle: Left DE

For now, we can't honestly call this a battle. There is only one person on the roster with every-down NFL experience at this position and that is the recently signed Renaldo Wynn. But you'd have to think that even if Phillip Daniels -- the long-time starter at this spot -- does not re-sign, the club would do something in the draft or lower rungs of free agency to bolster the current mix.

The re-signing of Wynn, 33, makes sense on a lot of levels. He's great at helping younger kids and commands respect around the league. (That will be important with Daniels unsigned and Shawn Springs and Marcus Washington gone.) He can be vocal and forceful if that's called for and there is no doubt in my mind that the Skins are hoping he can influence defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth and help with his transition here. Also, with many Redskins veterans questioning rookie NFL line coach John Palermo a year ago, Wynn can be a link between players and the staff.

On the field, though, one must be realistic about Wynn at this point in his career. This could be his last season here and, after being deemed not good enough to be among the top 53 in 2007, he has no one standing between him and a starting job at the moment. Wynn is strong and smart and can play the run but can't produce great results if he's in for 70 snaps.

He has been durable and was a perfect fit for the Giants, who had the best defensive line in the NFL last year, as a rotation player. I spoke with Renaldo recently and he's very excited about the prospect of sharing much of what he learned in New York. Wynn praised Giants defensive line coach Mike Waufle and believes he made major strides in pass-rushing technique under him. But, again, this is not someone who was going to be a prospective starter.

As for Daniels, even if he re-signs, his injury problems are legion and you cannot realistically count on him to get through a full season. Still, should he re-sign, he would come in with every chance to start ahead of Wynn, whom he's beaten out before.

On the whole, though, the Wynn/Daniels tandem poses age, speed and potential injury issues. Defensive coordinator Greg Blache wants a burly run stopper at this spot and has never made pass rushing a real emphasis on that side, so it makes some sense from that perspective.

Behind these two, I'd want reinforcements. The only other returning ends are youngsters Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson. They are essentially the same guy, only Wilson is better on special teams. They are speed rushers who lack the size to play on every down and are essentially rush ends who could give you a sporadic burst on third down in sub packages. You can't project more than that based on what we've seen. If Daniels (again, assuming he takes the Skins' low offer) or Wynn were to break down, there is definitely no one ready to play on run downs.

And when you look over the shoulder of the left defensive end and see the void at strong side linebacker, the problems with the perimeter play of this defense become more apparent. To me, that makes it all the more imperative that the club, with one of its five draft picks (only three in the top 200 selections), finds someone with some heft who can come in as a rotation guy at left end and at least have the body-type to provide legit snaps there, should the starter go down.

As it stands, I wouldn't expect teams to fear running away from Albert Haynesworth and plunging into this side of the line, and given the potential issues at linebacker and safety behind these ends, fortifying this side of the field should be considered mandatory.

By Jason La Canfora  |  March 27, 2009; 12:05 PM ET
Categories:  Redskins by Position  
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Next: Position Battle: Strong-Side LB

Comments

Thirst!

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Faust!

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Fecund.

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Türd

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

+++Cork,

Jenkins falls to 25?! I can't see the Dolphins passing him up if he does fall to them but d@mn.

Screw Denver! And if they select A. Smith, I'm gonna be so pissed at you Cork!!!!

Posted by: matthewvicker+++

This is th FIRST Mock I've ever done in my life. Honest.
If you read the descriptions and reasons for my picks, you'll realize I don.t pretend to be an expert. But I'll put it against so-called experts because I truely believe "All the Mocks are WRONG."

If Denver is influenced by my pick, they have worse problems than ticking off Cutler.

Also, if I was the skins, I'd be taking a real strong look at Jansen in workouts before picking. When he was last healthy, he was a dominant tackle. Now he says he's healthy, unlike the past few years.

NOT that I'm not saying address the OLine, but if he's good for another year or two, might be smarter to address the interior line by picking the TOP guard or center rather than leftover tackles.

AND if they trade down, they can address both interior line and LB or DE instead of gambling with ther ONE first day pick.

For further explanation:

http://tinyurl.com/Corkmock

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Forth.

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Fish (read this with a lisp)

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Sorry peeps, I couldna resist.

Bye!

Posted by: Redcoat | March 27, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,

I agree, I would love to have Smith. The running game would be damn near unstoppable. I think all these reports on his combine are just smoke and mirrors. I think he'll be gone within the top 6 picks. We can hold out hope he slips to 13 though.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

LDE is one of the 3 spots where the Skins are highly vulnerable (RT and OLB are the other spots). Its an opportunity for a player to step up.

As much as the Skins need help on the OL, if the Skins use their top pick on defense for either LDE or LB, this vulnerability might be manageable.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

As JLaC knocks DThomas and praises DJackson, AND criticizes for taking 3 pass catchers, including Sleepy Davis, let's see what he right before the draft....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/positional-review-wrte.html

"Problem is, there is no sure thing in this draft. Not even close. If anything, guys like Jackson are slipping and some believe there might not even be a receiver taken in the first round. It's part of the reason why I see the Skins trying like heck to trade down, because you still might get to pick between Sweed, Hardy or Thomas at pick 35-40. I love Hardy's size and would lean his way, though Thomas could be very effective in this system as well.

....................

As for tight ends, Chris Cooley is the man and will be for the foreseeable future. Todd Yoder has stabilized the depth - could this be the year when Brian Kozlowski is no longer on late-season speed dial? - but finding a young potential backup is something the team will try to address in the next few years as well. There are usually ample intriguing prospects at this position on the street after the draft - hence the run on scouting former college basketball players in recent years, since their frame and athleticism mesh with what you look for out of a TE.
"


See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues. Otherwise, Vinny choose 1 person he liked and picked a TE with said qualities.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Again, it all depends on whether Daniels and Washington re-sign.

Also, don't expect Golston, Montgomery, and Alexander to just be holding their pencils on the sideline during the season. More than likely, one or more of them will be rotating in at DE. Believe that.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we should see WHO is on the Redskins to play left defensive end before we have a discussion about who is going to play the position...maybe that's just logical, but what do I know?

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 27, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues."

Approved? JLC isn't Snyder. He's absolutely, 100% correct to be critical of the selections made last season, especially considering they haven't panned out yet. It doesn't make a difference what JLC thought prior to the draft. He's not auditioning for GM.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Funny that the article didn't mention rotating the defensive tackles into the end spot. I guess that wouldn't make it sound so ominous, would it? The reality is the team could stand pat at end and rotate Wynn, Montgomery, Griffin, Alexander - and even Haynesworth at left defensive end. I could see this being disruptive and if I'm an opposing QB, I want to always know where Haynesworth is lined up, so moving him around will make nervous QB's a little more unsettled.

Chris Wilson didn't bring much to the table last year and his days might be numbered, unless they can move he or Jackson to linebacker. No mention of Buzzbee here, but he and Jackson could be pass rush specialists if the team decides to get a little younger.

I cannot see the Redskins making a push for a defensive lineman until the second day of the draft, and there won't be a starter available. There are still a few free agents out there - Kevin Carter comes to mind - so, maybe they will take that route. I am not enamored with Philip Daniels. He's way too injury prone, but sliding him into a rotation with the tackles might help him limp through a season, and when he's healthy, he's pretty solid.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 27, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

JLa's recomendations for us last year on Oline (slow day at work):

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/positional-review-o-line.html

"
I expect the Redskins to focus significant draft energy along the line, with age and health a major issue with the O Line. Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen are again coming off surgery and lost seasons. Pete Kendall has arthritic knees. Getting 2-3 more quality seasons out of all three of them is asking a lot, and the Skins know it.

......................

Chris Samuels remains an elite left tackle but finding a stud with the ability to play tackle and guard would be too much to pass on with the 21st pick. The Skins love Brendan Albert but I still don't see him being around near 21. Vandy tackle Chris Williams is someone I believe they would jump on at 21 as well, as they rate him highly. Duane Thomas, a tackle from Virginia Tech, is someone to watch should the Skins trade out of 21, which is likely to be their favored option should the top 20 unfold as many expect.
"

1st paragraph was for balance. In the 2nd, he recomended CWilliams who after the draft, the Bears discovered a herniated disk, or something like that, that will be a continous problem and he didn't play in 2008.

And I couldn't locate where duane thomas was drafted, but I discovered Duane Thomas use to play for the skins in the early '70s under Allen......

I don't understand why we keep looking to replace Sameuls and why people want to pick LTs and convert them to RTs.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

"Potential issues at safety"??????
What potential issues? I thiought that was the one area where we are pretty much okay....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Approved? JLC isn't Snyder. He's absolutely, 100% correct to be critical of the selections made last season, especially considering they haven't panned out yet. It doesn't make a difference what JLC thought prior to the draft. He's not auditioning for GM.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 12:40 PM

Where has the integrety gone? If what you right is truth, then

JLaC and all reporters = Jim Cramer.

How can you reommend something, then if it doesn't pan out, you keep chopping at it like your the leading voice?

Vinny actually did 100% of what JLaC actually recomended regarding pass catches. One Hundred Percent.

Proves my point I would rather bounce ideas off of commentators or group discussions rather than listen to Insiders/columnist of anykind...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"Also, if I was the skins, I'd be taking a real strong look at Jansen in workouts before picking. When he was last healthy, he was a dominant tackle. Now he says he's healthy, unlike the past few years ...
--- the Corkster"

I recall the end of the line for Bostic and Joe Jacoby under Petitbone. STILL THE VERY BEST linemen they had RIGHT AT THE END! When they were in it was almost like looking at the superbowl offenses.

But because of all the injuries and the many years in the trenches they could not longer last 16 games ... barely 1 or 2 as spot starters. Yet they were so good I still don't understand why Casserly dumped them ... well Norv dumped them. Petitbone planned on keeping them perhaps that was why he was replaced after Casserly gutted the team and gave him no chance to succeed.

I am really glad Casserly is out of football he was a real jerk ... but yeah he could at times be a cagey drafter when the heat was on as it was for awhile first years under Snidely. Still a total a*%$$hole.

You have got to draft an LT ... perhaps 2 over the next 2 years because this may realistically become the situation for Jansen, Samuels, and Thomas. They are all close to pro bowl caliber when healthy but how often will they be truly healthy?

Jansen is here at least for now at least as a sub because of the salary cap. Same with Samuels and Thomas.

So, now is the time to identify and groom their replacements under "rookie rules" where the team won't really have to pay them big $$$ until/if they develop in 2-3 years.


Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"What potential issues? I thiought that was the one area where we are pretty much okay....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009"

No real backup for Landry. Horton is not good in coverage. Doughty is coming off of an injury ...

Yeah it is a position that is fraught with risk but they can find safeties on the waiver wire.

Good cover corners are harder to find ...

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey look who is #2 in RI NCAA pool! (ME!)

in other news, 4th is just barely beating his "do not count me" entry.....

good stuff!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe we should see WHO is on the Redskins to play left defensive end before we have a discussion about who is going to play the position...maybe that's just logical, but what do I know?

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 27, 2009"

Your clipboard really is broken?

LDE/RDE Demetric Evans (SF 49'ers)
LDE Jason Taylor (injured released)
LDE Philip Daniels (injured released)

Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson designated pass rushers who arguably, like Andre Carter, should be linebackers and not DE in the 4-3. They are all small and so ineffective against the run.


Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Let's see whose where when Fantasy Foosball comes back around......

I still may win the whole NCAA Brackets, though. Just let UConn win the whole thing....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

LDE continued ...

Both Haynesworth and Montgomery could play this position in the 4-3 on all downs. They may actually do well as Haynesworth former coach thought he was more effective there.

So, it might end up making sense to put Wynn, Griffin, and Golston at DT.

Montgomery, Carter, Haynesworth at DE.

On the peripheries ... Buzbee, Jackson and Wilson ...

Still wonder why the don't convert Jackson and Wilson to LB as that would be a far better fit and that is a more vulnerable spot than DE.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Just a warning 4th in my two long running FF leagues my past year results were:

won championship

and

lost by 4 points in championship game


just sayin....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"JLaC and all reporters = Jim Cramer."

Huge difference. JLC is a reporter with no actual in-depth experience and knowledge of the game, simply offering opinion just like any other common observer. Cramer is an analyst with extremely high levels of experience and knowledge, who many people invest in based on his recommendations. Cramer's purpose is to be prospectively insightful and knowledgeable about the market, JLC's purpose to be retrospectively analytical and prospectively insightful about the team.

Cramer is Kiper, Mayock, Mckshay -- JLC is any common reporter that covers the stock markets fluctuations. Cramer is SUPPOSED to be held accountable, JLC is SUPPOSED to hold others accountable. They're on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

4th you have absolutely 0% chance of winning. You have 510 points and only have 600 potential point remaining. psp23 already has 1120. You can stop looking at your bracket.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 27, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues. Otherwise, Vinny choose 1 person he liked and picked a TE with said qualities.......

Posted by: 4thFloor

And, Kelly was a measured risk with a pick we aquired from trading down for thomas

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

LH - Didn't you just say don't let opinions get in the way of facts? geez...

Cl - I don't know who your comp was up there. Just make sure we're in the same RI league.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I messed that up. Don't let facts get in way.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Greg Blache rotates all defensive players in the game is what I like best. The offense keeps rookies and reserved players on the shelf. I can't name one defensive player on the roster that did not play last year. Even the rookies played alot, Kareem Moore, Tryon...they're no world beaters but they CONTRIBUTED!

Posted by: rickyroge | March 27, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

So, now is the time to identify and groom their replacements [OT's] under "rookie rules" where the team won't really have to pay them big $$$ until/if they develop in 2-3 years.

Posted by: periculum

if we used the same philosophy as last year and took 3 O-Line, 1's bound to be good. I know we should take OT, DE, OLB

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Forget the lines. How unglamorous of you. No, following last year's successful drafting of 3 receivers with the 1st 3 picks, this year Vinnie is going to get 2 punters and a kicker. Then he'll go after 2 more safeties and make signing an undrafted H-back a priority.

Posted by: groundhogdayguy | March 27, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

4th....my other leagues now span over 10 years each, with absolute FF pros. We use individual defensive starters. One league even requires dlinemen. We debate rule changes longer than real NFL owners. I guarantee both my other leagues are more competive than the RI league. Plus real coin on the league.

But I will join you noobs in the RI league this year....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Jackson is 270 plenty big enough to play the run at LDE, the Giants and the Eagles have guys on that side smaller then that.

The Giants two best ends are 274 and 260.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Oh Cork,

I was only kidding about your mock & my temper.

Count me in as a guy who thinks that Jansen can start. Fact is that, with another year of strengthening/rehabbing his injuries, abilities & confidence, Jansen only has to show Buges that he's better than last year, which shouldn't be too hard to do.

I believe that Buges is pushing for his Sameuls/Dockery/Rabach/Thomas/Jansen crew.

If Jansen is any better than he was last year, then I am more inclined to think Vinny C goes for something other than OT at #13. Safest pick IMO, is OT, even if it means Oher, who people are saying is the top of the second tier of OTs.

JLC is right about our SLB though. However I do believe HB Blades is stout enough to handle run support, it's just his size that compromises his coverage.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

If UNC wins, I will win.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 27, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"JLaC and all reporters = Jim Cramer."

Huge difference. JLC is a reporter with no actual in-depth experience and knowledge of the game, simply offering opinion just like any other common observer. Cramer is an analyst with extremely high levels of experience and knowledge, who many people invest in based on his recommendations. Cramer's purpose is to be prospectively insightful and knowledgeable about the market, JLC's purpose to be retrospectively analytical and prospectively insightful about the team.

Cramer is Kiper, Mayock, Mckshay -- JLC is any common reporter that covers the stock markets fluctuations. Cramer is SUPPOSED to be held accountable, JLC is SUPPOSED to hold others accountable. They're on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 1:11 PM

So, you're saying anybody can be a reporter?

I take issue with that, because JLa has analytical stories that go into the actual paper, in addition to this blog. This is an in-step process to be a Michael D Smith or Adam Schefter.

And for you to make that statement above, we should then just basically disregard everything he post up here.

But to my original point, he indeed made a recomendation. And Vinny indeed followed it. And now contradiction is in play.

And the Jim Cramer bit was saying if what you said was true. That wasn't my original point.

Also, I personally never follow mock drafts. There beyond pointless.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

If you have yet to see the video of Ryan Moats incident with the police. The Houston RB who was pulled over for running a red light to get trying to get his wife to her dying mothers bedside the cop delays him so much that he is unable to get to see her before she dies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Q49VztpLI&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: alex35332 | March 27, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Chris Wilson would be the only guy I would think of making into a SLB, he is 6-4 247 perfect size and he is fast.

I know it would be tough but if he could do it, he would play a lot more then he does now.

I would also give Alexander snaps at end, the guy goes 110% every time he's in the game.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"As for tight ends, Chris Cooley is the man and will be for the foreseeable future. Todd Yoder has stabilized the depth - could this be the year when Brian Kozlowski is no longer on late-season speed dial? - but finding a young potential backup is something the team will try to address in the next few years as well. There are usually ample intriguing prospects at this position on the street after the draft - hence the run on scouting former college basketball players in recent years, since their frame and athleticism mesh with what you look for out of a TE."

See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues. Otherwise, Vinny choose 1 person he liked and picked a TE with said qualities.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:36 PM

Continuing my 'pick on 4th like he's my little brother' week....read what JLC wrote again...."find potential backup in the next few years; usually ample intriguing prospects on the street after the draft."

Not an endorsement of a TE in round 2. Not by a long shot.
To quote a certain PDXer: "WR-TE-WR. Ugh"

Posted by: 4-12 | March 27, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

That's right, 4 for 4 on elite 8 teams so far, with my other 4 still alive. This is where it gets interesting though, because it seems like there are a LOT of different variations that peeps have in the final 4. Not like other years where there were 1 or 2 teams clearly ahead of everyone else entering the tourney that everyone picked to go far.

By the way, does anybody know what the percentage means next to the point total? Mine says 95.4%, but I know I haven't hit 95% of the games correct, nor do I have 95.4% of the possible points right now.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

we all know that drafting a T, DE and/or LB is top priority.

for now i think we need to let go of talking about issues at safety. Landry is a beast, Horton got it done and Kareem Moore I believe will have a breakout year.

I'm glad the "experts" are saying that Horton isn't that good. it's like medical marijuana, scientists can't "confirm" that it helps with symptoms of different diseases, but 9 out of 10 patients will tell you that it helps, like Horton, experts can't confirm that he's any good, but 9 out of 10 players and fans will tell you that he is a beast

SEAN TAYLOR WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST REDSKINS OF ALL TIME

Posted by: retroskins14 | March 27, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

4th, most of what JLC puts up on this blog is purely for discussion purposes. There are times when he's retrospectively analytical, but he always has sources or evidence to base his opinions off of (whether or not the sources are named is a different story).

You don't have to disregard what he writes up here, just take it as an opinion to spark discussion -- same as you would do with anybody else. When you see him write something like "If I were the Redskins, I would trade back and see if I could get Devin Thomas", that should never, ever preclude him from saying a year later "In an offseason where the Redskins needed an immediate upgrade at WR, Vinny Cerrato failed to do so with the addition of Devin Thomas, whereas other rookie receivers around the league did provide this."

"So, you're saying anybody can be a reporter?"

No. He's a reporter because he works to get sources, information, opinions, and draw out responses from people inside the organization and around the league. He doesn't just spout off blind opinions. It's either based on evidence (like statistics) or the subjective opinions of his sources.

Regardless, it should be a given that ANY person's opinions be taken with a grain of salt.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

This article seems to contradict itself (not that I expect any better from JLC)...in wynn and possibly Daniels you have two tough, smart vets who play the run well and are leaders...in Jackson and Wilson you have two young energetic pass rushers who specialize in pass downs. So if we have a mix of young and old and guys who can play the pass and the run what is the crisis here? Is there some other sort of play I am not aware of? Not saying this is perfect we would all love a pro-bowler at every position, but does not seem tragic either

Posted by: JLR75 | March 27, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

From PFT:

[St. Paul’s Toler Is An NFL Sleeper
Posted by Aaron Wilson on March 27, 2009, 1:36 p.m.

St. Paul’s (Va.) cornerback Greg Toler is making his bid to emerge as this year’s Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie, and has been drawing increased interest from NFL teams.

Toler had private workouts this week with the Cleveland Browns and the Miami Dolphins this week.

Toler told us in a telephone interview that he has upcoming visits with the Washington Redskins, Houston Texans, San Francisco 49ers, Pittsburgh Steelers, Minnesota Vikings, New York Jets, Arizona Cardinals, Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Jacksonville Jaguars....]

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie as a rookie last year played better than his cousin, Antonio Cromartie.

I heard the Chargers are looking to shop Antonio Cromartie.

Who is Greg Toler?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 27, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

"Is there some other sort of play I am not aware of?"

Aside from the obvious fact that two of the guys mentioned have only played extremely sparingly for their careers, one of the guys hasn't been a starter in over five years, and the other is two years removed from starting experience while being one year removed from serious reconstructive knee surgery, unless you can perfectly guess each time there's going to be a pass vs. a run, it's extremely helpful and often necessary to have someone that can play both types of plays. It becomes much more manageable if Daniels comes back, but if he doesn't, this position is in serious need of help.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Greg Toler? Casserly spoke about him last night. He's a DC native, went to a small school in VA. He's fast, but RAW. Casserly thinks he could get drafted and help out on teams.

Posted by: TWISI | March 27, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

No, you don't rotate tackles and ends. Yes, the Skins had a lousy draft. Yes, it makes sense to consider who can play a position by looking at the guys you have currently. How else would you do it?

What is wrong with you people? You sound like a bunch of Limbaughs hell-bent on talking smack regardless of how inane your points are. JLC is doing is job, and doing it well. Most of you can't even spell and you're criticizing the man. Go complain about something else and let the adults converse here.

Posted by: RIP-21 | March 27, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

+++See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues. Otherwise, Vinny choose 1 person he liked and picked a TE with said qualities.......

Posted by: 4thFloor+++


YES, of course it's JLaC's fault THE Redskins picked the wrong WRs LAST YEAR. Drn you Jasno for fooling Vinny with your durn wrong-headed insights!

Look, he's a sportswriter. He isn't PAID to know who to pick. He didnt' do the in depth interviews and due diligence that the alleged brain trust at redskin park was supposed to do.

I posted a MOCk with my specualtions this year I didnt' talk to ANY of the candidates. So you can yank out what I said and hang me by it after the draft, What will it prove? NOTHING.

I"M not in charge of picking players for the Redskins or anyone else. Anyone who would take my advice, or yours, or any newspaperman's or especially anyoneposting on a website is an IDIOT.

In your continuing efforts to shoot the messenger and divert everyone from the TRUTH, you again do the bidding of the idiots in the FO who screwed the pooch on the receivers the drafted and the lineman and the punter and the CB they drafted.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget Jason taylor

It doesn't work, 4th, or all the rest of you front office employees or apologists.

Because, if JLaC left, the Redskins wouldn't get any better, and you would continue your Front office propaganda campaign to try to make people forget the Redskins FRONT OFFICE IS CLUELESS.

First, Dan, fix the FRONT OFFICE. Then worry about the media.

Now then, phase two: Attack the Messenger's defender may begin.


Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"What is wrong with you people? You sound like a bunch of Limbaughs hell-bent on talking smack regardless of how inane your points are. JLC is doing is job, and doing it well. Most of you can't even spell and you're criticizing the man. Go complain about something else and let the adults converse here."
------------------------------
I'm not one to talk, but have you seen La Canfora's spelling?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 27, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse


CL,
We use defensive players as well in my league; love it! Have’nt had any rule changes in as long as I can remember. And I’ve been in my FF league since the 1992 season.

Noob……yeah I said it.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

How many times will corky pimp himself, articles he's written, and his mock draft between now and the actual draft......???

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

It smells like camp fodder in here.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 27, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Ha! d-haze

Nothing beats using IDPs in FF. Team defense is for suckas!

We obsessively tweak the rules in one of my leagues like it was our job.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

i liked what chris wilson did two years back...start feeding that kid 8000 calories a day to bulk up. Problem solved. feed albert less and wilson more. DE problem solved (on one end, anyway).

Posted by: carsonspence | March 27, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

RI Hamsters in Car 54 where are you? Cerrato speaks candidly to Rick "Doc" Walker about the draft.

On if University of Texas DE Brian Orakpo will be there at the thirteenth pick:

Cerrato: "No. He will not be there."

On Andre Smith, who Walker calls "the nastiest guy I saw on film," and if he would be a viable pick if he dropped to thirteen:

Cerrato: "He would be a definite candidate Doc.

"You know what, the thing about it was, prior to the season ending in college he was projected to go as high as two. And then he got in trouble with the agent thing, so he got suspended for the game. Then the combine, he left early and then at his workout, I don't know who advised him to run without his shirt on.

"But then the thing about it is, what happens, Doc, is you make those thoughts at that time. Then what happens is when you get into the meetings in April, you go back to the tape -- and the tape don't lie -- and then you start watching the tape and say you know, this guy is pretty good. He probably won't be there at thirteen, either, Doc. The guy is a talented player.

"Who is going to be there? I don't know because, Doc, there is so much time yet.

"Let's just take us through kind of where we're at, what our schedule is. The scouts come back in the end of March, on that Sunday. And then we meet from then, basically until the week prior to the Draft. And that is kind of when we're taking our board and ranking each position and that is when all the scouts are in there.

"The pro scouts, college scouts, because everybody is responsible -- the staff is in there too. Coaches are in there, too. When we are in there it is like, you say what you have to say now because if you don't say it now, in a week I don't want you to come back and say, you know what? I like this guy better. It ain't happening.

"If you want to say something you say it in this room when we are talking about him, otherwise it don't change. Because then you know what happens is, after the meetings, then coaches, they go talk to their friends. 'How did you like this guy? How did you like that guy?' And then they'll say, 'Oh, maybe I'm wrong,' and then we'll start second-guessing ourselves.

"Why do that work then if you're just going to talk to your friends? You have to be about the work that you have done and what you have seen and what you have seen at that time because the thing about it is, we are sitting in there and ... say Andre Smith. We are taking him and we're making a tell-a-story tape and a tell-a-story tape is like 40 plays and after you watch the tell-a story-tape.. and the reason I don't call it a highlight tape is because it's not highlights. It's tell-a-story. You put it together and show what he can do and what he can't do, so when you are done watching you say, alright you know his strengths and his weaknesses.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

PSP - Is this like our 3rd disagreement of the wek? I guess I'll come in with the cermonious 'Agree to Disagree.'

(TE, if your reading this, you can no longer call me out on $0.92 and July per PSP)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

If there were blogs around in 1991, I wonder what the talk would be with a 14-2 season and a Super Bowl.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 27, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

RI Gerbils where are you? [Continued]

Vinnie continues to elaborate on Andre Smith ...

"So if he can't pass block, you show him getting beat a bunch of times in pass pro. If he is a great run block, you see all the drive blocks. We watch the tell-a-story tape then we watch about three regular games of him and then what we'll do is, Scott Campbell will run the projector and what I like to do is take notes the whole time. It's like I'm writing a report again.

"And then after we get done watching the tape Scott will go around the room and ask everybody their opinion, what they think. And then we will write one Redskin report on the guy and put a Redskin grade on it and then we'll put him up on the board. Then we'll watch the next guy and so on and so forth, all the way down. And it's a lot easier to compare them when you are watching them one right after another, bam bam bam, all the way down and you get a pretty good comparison."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Is Rick "Doc" Walker or one of his staff an RI hamster?

On drafting Chad Rinehart, and his performance last year:

Cerrato: "I liked him at the Senior Bowl, because you saw him playing guard and you saw him pulling....

"The thing about it is basically during the whole [2008] season he ran the other team's plays. He was on the scout team. What plays did he get with the starting team? Really none. Well, he did the last two weeks because he got to dressing, and what the players and what Buges told me is he really improved a lot the last two weeks because he was getting in the real reps. Because otherwise they are running the other team's plays. As you are running the other team's plays, you're not worried about your steps, your fundamentals, all those things."

[At this point, Doc Walker asked who filled in for Pete Kendall during his regular Wedensday non-practices.]

Cerrato: "[Jason] Fabini, because of the guys that were dressing. Rinehart wasn't dressing. The reason Fabini was dressing was because he could play right tackle, right guard, left guard, because as you know, we were dressing seven, so you have to be versatile, so you always- [Justin] Geisinger was always dressing because nobody else could play center. Fabini dressed because he would play all three spots.

Walker: "Couldn't that retard a young kid's growth? How can a rookie learn 5 positions?"

Cerrato: "That is basically impossible. Because a rookie coming in, they know nothing anyhow, they are overwhelmed, especially an offensive lineman. He's playing left tackle, left guard, right tackle ... and as you know, all the positions are different.

"Fundamentally, the steps are different. At guard the guy is on him right away. At tackle he has the wide rusher. At guard he has two guys next to him to help him. Everything is different. It takes time to develop so what you are going to see, like what you are going to see now, Devin Clark, those guys, they are going to play guard in the offseason now.

Walker: "What about Stephon Heyer?"

Cerrato: "Stephon is playing right tackle. That's it. He is a right tackle. He is playing right tackle right now. I said, 'hey, Stephon. Take that job. Go get that job.'

"He weighed in at 330 pounds and he looked good. What Stephon needs to do is just keep working on his fundamentals. When he would bend his knees, Doc, he has arms that would go from here to down the street. As a pass rusher if he gets his hands on it, he's good, but if he just sits down and got his hands tight -- and I'm sure you heard that many times, tight hands -- now if he does his fundamentals right he is hard to beat. But when he stands tall, doesn't bend his knees, you can walk him back. So strength and fundamentals is what he is going to be working on this whole offseason."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato on the "infamous wide receivers" question:

On selecting Devin Thomas over Virginia Tech (and now Denver Bronco) WR Eddie Royal in last year's draft:

Cerrato: "We liked Eddie Royal, Doc. What it came down to is, Eddie Royal is about 5'9", okay? Santana [Moss] and Antwaan [Randle El] are both that size. We wanted bigger guys. We did not want another little guy because we already had two. We wanted bigger guys. We wanted a couple bigger guys, so that is why we went in that direction. We weren't looking for another little guy because we had Santana and we had Antwaan and we wanted bigger guys. We already had that mold and we didn't have the big guy. In the west coast offense, there are a lot of slants and a lot of those things and having a bigger presence was what we were looking for."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

How many times will corky pimp himself, articles he's written, and his mock draft between now and the actual draft......???

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 2:13 PM


Don't know the answer to that but I am getting better at spotting his posts with the CAPS LOCK peppered in there and the +++++++++++ so I can skip right over them.

I like fantasy football as much as the next fan but individual defensive players is too hardcore for me.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 27, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson are two totally different players.

Wilson is the light speed guy - more Freeney-esque. Jackson is a bigger, and straight-up DE - more Philip Daniels-esque.

Jackson certainly isn't a speed rusher.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | March 27, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Geez, this thread is crazy with nastiness. Save that energy for the field...oh, wait, it's March. You don't win games in March, and you don't lose them either.

Posted by: BigE44 | March 27, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

If you believe Cerrato, the VP of Player Personnel gadabout "talking head" Andre Smith will get drafted by the Washington Redskins if he drops to 13. He will be in the mix with Heyer and Rhinehart.

They still need a center and a guard.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me why we didn't resign Demetric Evans. What was his contract numbers anyway? He is the type of player that we need at LDE. Just another case of letting someone go as they start to hit their full potential. Sounds like another Antonio Pierce to me.

Posted by: Redskins001 | March 27, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why we keep looking to replace Sameuls and why people want to pick LTs and convert them to RTs.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

It's a matter of HAVING to replace Samuels at some point. Gee, if we could just clone a 28 year-old Samuels every season, we'd do it. Age, knees, injuries are catching up to him and I personally don't see him making it through a full season.

You can never have too many good LTs, just like you can never have too many good CBs or QBs on your roster. Having an LT play RT is a good way to extend their career (Jacoby) or keep them stashed on your roster.

If we can get Andre Smith to start at LT, and then move Samuels to RT, I would feel GREAT going into the season at O-line.

Posted by: p1funk | March 27, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson are two totally different players.

Wilson is the light speed guy - more Freeney-esque. Jackson is a bigger, and straight-up DE - more Philip Daniels-esque.

Jackson certainly isn't a speed rusher."

Rob Jackson at 6'4" 259 pounds is more of a linebacker. Chris Wilson at 6'4" 246 pounds is also a line backer.

A defensive end is considered ***TOO LIGHT*** in the 4-3 defense at 265-275 pounds in today's NFL. The 4-3 is about stopping the run first and foremost.

Tennessee's Jason Jones, someone the Redskins could have drafted in the 2nd round last year, is 6'5" and 275 pounds. He had 5 sacks, 3 force fumbles, and 31 tackles in a backup role last year.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Cork - I am always afraid to comment back to you for some reason. I just don't know why?

But, I'll do it anyway.....

{Comment deleted}

Changed my mind

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I say trade down from 13 for an extra pick or two, If we're talking about DEs here Robert Ayers would fit Blache's vision as to what he wants at that unfilled DE position. He's a big run stuffer who's got enough speed to get after the QB. I saw him up close and personal against Alabama (Andre Smith) in Knoxville and he more than held his own! Even got a sack. He played up and down the d-line for Tenn. The guy's a stud and can be had down the draft board.

Posted by: LaLa12 | March 27, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson are two totally different players.

Wilson is the light speed guy - more Freeney-esque. Jackson is a bigger, and straight-up DE - more Philip Daniels-esque.

Jackson certainly isn't a speed rusher."

The are linebackers not defensive ends in the 4-3 continued:


Philip Merling DE, drafted first in the 2nd round by the Miami Dolphins is 6'5" 272 pounds.

In a subordinate role he had 26 tackles, 1 sack, 2 passes defended, 1 interception and 1 touchdown. (2 starts)

Calais Campbell, drafted in the 2nd round by the AZ Cardinals is 6'8" 282 pounds.

In a subordinate role (0 games started) he had 28 tackles 0 sacks 1 pass defended and a fumble.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Now then, phase two: Attack the Messenger's defender may begin.

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Dude, people "attack" you b/c your self-appointed role as JLA's knight-in-shining-armor is pretty pathetic.

JLA's a big boy and I'm sure he doesn't need you to be the blog version of his mom.

Sniff JLA's jock all you want, but keep it private and get over yourself...


Posted by: p1funk | March 27, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

We really don't know how much these kids weigh now.

That's old data....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"If we can get Andre Smith to start at LT, and then move Samuels to RT, I would feel GREAT going into the season at O-line.

Posted by: p1funk | March 27, 2009"

AMEN!!! with Jansen and Heyer as backups I think the coaches would feel far more comfortable with the O-line situation going into the season.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

If there were blogs around in 1991, I wonder what the talk would be with a 14-2 season and a Super Bowl.
Posted by: rickyroge | March 27, 2009 2:20 PM
We would all be yelling at Sports Guru, saying we told you so, we told you so! (He would have wanted to cut Mark Rypien)…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I just saw Kedric Golston - he walked right by me on 20th Street....I wanted to say "hello" but was tongue-tied.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 27, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

[Walker: "What about Stephon Heyer?"

Cerrato: "Stephon is playing right tackle. That's it. He is a right tackle. He is playing right tackle right now. I said, 'hey, Stephon. Take that job. Go get that job.'

"He weighed in at 330 pounds and he looked good. What Stephon needs to do is just keep working on his fundamentals. When he would bend his knees, Doc, he has arms that would go from here to down the street. As a pass rusher if he gets his hands on it, he's good, but if he just sits down and got his hands tight -- and I'm sure you heard that many times, tight hands -- now if he does his fundamentals right he is hard to beat. But when he stands tall, doesn't bend his knees, you can walk him back. So strength and fundamentals is what he is going to be working on this whole offseason."]

Doesn't it sound like Vinny C is semi-comfortable with Heyer starting at RT?

If we draft Oline at 13, I doubt he starts. I bet he watches, learns and they groom him replace Samuels.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,

Def should have insisted to him, that he sign his tender....

Starting Oline Projection 2009:
Sameuls/Dock/Rabach/Thomas/Jansen

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"TE, if your reading this, you can no longer call me out on $0.92 and July per PSP)

Posted by: 4thFloor"

As always, we can agree to disagree.

Nobody is saying to take JLC as an expert regarding his opinions. Hell, I trust my own insight 10 times out of 10 over anything JLC opines on. I'm just saying I could care less as to whether or not he was right in predicting the success of offseason transactions or draft picks.

I do, however, care how Vinny does in his offseason moves. And in that regard, I have no problem whatsoever with JLC calling his poor moves out.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Rob Jackson at 6'4" 259 pounds is more of a linebacker. Chris Wilson at 6'4" 246 pounds is also a line backer.

A defensive end is considered ***TOO LIGHT*** in the 4-3 defense at 265-275 pounds in today's NFL. The 4-3 is about stopping the run first and foremost.

+++++

Both Jackson/Wilson are smallish for the kind of DEs we like. But we should be able to rotate them in with Wynn/Daniels(?) on passing downs or get one of them to play LB.

...but now that we have Haynesworth, anyone playing next to him is gonna get 10 sacks a season, right?

Posted by: p1funk | March 27, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"If we draft Oline at 13, I doubt he starts. I bet he watches, learns and they groom him replace Samuels.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009"

Agreed. Like Andre Smith he can also play guard.

The difference here is Smith ... OH what a guard!!
And tackle! He starts because of his nimble and quick footwork and his arm length.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

REDSKINS INSIDER; the Rick "Doc" Walker Friday morning edition continues:

On trading for Jason Taylor last year:

Cerrato: "Let's go back to the Jason Taylor thing: would I do it again if it were the same thing right now? Yeah, I think I'd have to. We're coming off a playoff year. First day, first drill, we lose our starting defensive end, and there's a pro bowl defensive end out there. To give up a two and a six the following year, which was really a seventh this past year...."

"And the other reason I pushed to do it is when Phillip [Daniels] went down, the air went out of the team. And I remember telling Jim and Dan, we need to give the guys some confidence. Give them something to feel like, all right, we have a chance again."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

The Dockery Saga from Vinnie's perspective:

On re-signing Derrick Dockery after his performance flagged last year:

Cerrato: "You know, what we did was, we went back and looked at film.

"I went back to 2007 and watched him play. I watched him play the NFC East. I watched him play Dallas, Philly, the Giants and us and I thought against Dallas, I would have selected him to go to the Pro Bowl. I mean, he wore out Chris Canty that day.

"I mean Doc- the thing about it, the way he looked in his uniform, he wasn't soft looking. He lost his baby fat. He wasn't on the ground. He found his balance. He had a real good punch with the right arm, because I was sitting there watching it with Buges and Scott Campbell.

"Then I watched '08, where they said he didn't play as good. Maybe he didn't play quite as good, but he still played pretty good. Then we went back and watched him play in '06, when he got the big contract from playing with us and he improved so much. They paid him watching '06.

"Watching him play in '07 and '08, yeah I like that Dock. His body is in better shape. He lost the baby fat. His balance was better. He ran better. Everything he did was better. So we were excited about getting him back.

"The thing about it was, when we heard he was getting cut I called Buffalo and I said, are you guys trading him, because there was a rumor they were trading him to Detroit and they were trying to do this paperwork by 4 o'clock because he had a roster bonus and they didn't want to get stuck paying the money if he went somewhere and failed the physical. So I was on the phone with him until 4 o'clock and they said, oh we didn't get the paperwork in so he'll be on the wire.

"So then we went to working and Doc called me after he got cut. He said, look I want to be in there. My agent is going to play it tough, but just hang in there with me. I'll be back. And Chris Samuels is his boy and Chris is calling me. They're texting each other. And Chris is ecstatic he is back. I think that was a win-win for everybody."

Keep in mind ... Andre Smith wants to be a Chris Samuel's clone ... same school.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

A couple of points JLC "forgot" to mention:

1) Alex Buzbee is still in the mix at LDE. We simply have no idea how he'll perform, but this is probably his last chance to make the team.

2) Jackson is bigger and plays harder than Wilson. I see him more as a potential Daniels replacement vs a speed rusher off the edge.

3) Haynesworth played LDE on passing downs for the Titans. Ya think he'd be of use there for the Skins? With Wynn playing DT and rushing up the middle in Evans old role.

4) Wynn is a very capable replacement for Evans. He's a few years older, but he can be a good mentor for the younger DEs.

5) Daniels can still play at LDE and knows the defense. He'll probably be signed after the draft, but still has to earn a roster spot during training camp.

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

If we draft Oline at 13, I doubt he starts. I bet he watches, learns and they groom him replace Samuels.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

If he can play, I bet he starts. Espcially considering the $$ he's gonna be making at 13.

The beauty of the scenario I laid out with someone like Smith starting at LT and Samuels starting at RT is this: If Smith (or other LT) start to tank it, we can move Samuels back, give our oung buck more space to develop, and move Heyer into the starting rotation at RT.

Posted by: p1funk | March 27, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

REDSKINS INSIDER ... why Vinnie believes Haynesworth won't end up as "dead cap" like Stumblefield:

On how Albert Haynesworth differs from previous free agent signee Dana Stubblefield:

Cerrato: "What was interesting, when I was with San Fran, we came and played a Monday night here Stubby's first year and all he did was, he was taking all the players around before the game and saying 'See my suite up there? I got that.'

"He was just fat and happy. He got paid and that was it.

"The thing is, Albert, he says, I want to be the best. When people talk about defensive tackles in this league, I want to be mentioned. I want to go to the Hall of Fame. That is what he wants to do. You notice the number he wears. He's from Tennessee, and it's Reggie White's number and, Doc, I was in San Fran when Reggie was a free agent, when he went to Green Bay. And we were trying to get him and he went to Green Bay. I think he was older than Albert is at this time and what he did to that defense and what he did to that team...

Walker: "Super Bowl."

Cerrato: "Right."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

From the Times,

[AROUND THE AFC

• Look for the New England Patriots to be active on draft weekend. The Patriots have six of the first 100 picks (Nos. 23, 34, 47, 58, 89 and 97) and also have two picks apiece in the fifth and sixth rounds. This gives Bill Belichick plenty of chips to use if he wants to trade up in the first round like he did last year to get linebacker Jerod Mayo. The Patriots need to replace linebacker Mike Vrabel, so don't be surprised if Belichick moves up to snatch Southern Cal's Brian Cushing.]

Possible trade partner? Isn't that something like what Vinny C loves? Trade partners? we give you Shawn Springs & Jason Taylor, you give us some picks?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Doc" Walker's REDSKINS INSIDER:

Vinnie on the other "problem child" free agent, DeAngelo Hall:

On paying the money to DeAngelo Hall:

Cerrato: "I will say this, we got him with I think seven games to go. We had to pay him a prorated portion of his salary, which was like $490,000.... So we told him when we signed him, listen, if we like you at the end and you like us at the end and everything works, we will give you a market deal and he said okay.

"And you know what? He played his butt off.

"After the season I talked to London Fletcher and I talked to a bunch of the guys on defense and I said, do you want him back. How was he? He [London] said, 'he was great in the locker room. He was a great teammate. He took notes in meetings. He practices hard. Good competitor. Yeah, we want him back.'

"Everyone I talked to, unanimous, coaches wanted him back. So does he fit in? Yeah.

"And I think the thing about the guy here is, he's home. And I saw him yesterday and I said, 'I heard you're going to buy a big house.' He said, 'I'm trying to sell my house down in Atlanta because I want to move home.' You know, so he has his family here. He can go home for Thanksgiving to have Thanksgiving with his mom. So I think it is a different environment. Plus, he's older and we have the London Fletchers around, we have Griff, we have these veteran guys around he can talk to.

"London told me many times he had conversations with him, just sat him down, you know what happened in Oakland, and those kind of things and how we practice and I think he has a great relationship with Jerry Gray. And we let him play defense, Greg Blache's philosophy is let our guys do what they do best. DeAngelo, what he does best: play off. How do you perform best? And I think that is what we saw when DeAngelo played. He got his hands on the ball a lot. He had what, three picks when he was here and a fumble.

"So I think with us getting Albert [Haynesworth] also, DeAngelo has the chance to have a huge year. I mean, Doc, you saw him in college. The guy has phenomenal ball skills. He can go get the ball. He can make turnovers. He can make plays. So I mean, we are happy. The first day of the off season he is here working out. He is here everyday, so I mean, everything that we have been exposed to, he has been outstanding."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"2) Jackson is bigger and plays harder than Wilson. I see him more as a potential Daniels replacement vs a speed rusher off the edge."

Looking at last year's 3 picks for DE in the 2nd round should tell you that Jackson is way too small for DE in the NFL. He is the same size as Chris Wilson weighing 8-10 pounds more.

He should be converted to a linebacker as Chris Gocong was in Philadelphia.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I highly doubt that Jansen and Heyer, both, will give up the RT position easily.

I imagine it would take a lot to convince Buges to start a rookie in place of Heyer or Jansen. But if an OT @ 13 can out play those Vets, then I'm all for him starting.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

peri, thanks for posting that stuff.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"I imagine it would take a lot to convince Buges to start a rookie in place of Heyer or Jansen. But if an OT @ 13 can out play those Vets, then I'm all for him starting.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009"

If they draft Andre Smith he is pretty much a lock for that position ... and eventually left tackle seems highly probable. Anyone else is a question mark.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor Targets The Pats
Posted by Mike Florio on March 27, 2009, 10:31 a.m.
After the Redskins unexpectedly dumped defensive end Jason Taylor earlier this month, speculation centered immediately on his potential arrival in New England.

Apparently, there’s now mutual interest in that possibility.

According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, the Pats are Taylor’s top choice.

Likewise, New England owner Bob Kraft recently has gushed about the 2006 NFL defensive player of the year.

“Great player,” Kraft said at the recent league meetings, according to Cole. “I’m sure that can happen if he wants it.”

Other evidence points to a possible pairing of Taylor and the Pats. Coach Bill Belichick previously has declared platonic man-love for Taylor, who according to our poorly-compensated research staff (i.e., me) registered 10.5 sacks against the Patriots from 2001 through 2007. (In contrast, Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers has notched a whopping 0.0 sacks in two career games against the Pats, which includes a Super Bowl.)

Also, Taylor and quarterback Tom Brady reportedly have a solid relationship.

Finally, Belichick recently explained his affinity for thirtysomething players. “You know what you’re getting when it comes to the level of commitment of those players,” he said. “They know their time is somewhat limited so you usually get a player’s best shot at that point in their careers.”

Taylor would be extra-motivated in New England, because he realizes that he could go out with a Super Bowl ring.

The only potential impediment would seem to be Taylor’s desire to avoid the offseason program, which suggests that a deal wouldn’t be done until the middle of June or later, after the T-shirt-and-shorts practice sessions have ended.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Rob Jackson is listed at 6'4, 269 lbs. That's a prototype DE in the 4-3. He is nowhere near a LB. He'd need to lose 25-30 lbs or so to get there.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"So if we have a mix of young and old and guys who can play the pass and the run what is the crisis here?"

That none of these players are good.

To call Philip Daniels or Reynoldo Wynn "servicable starters" at their age is a stretch. As for Buzbee, Jackson and Wilson, all are young and have shown almost nothing beyond being special teamers.

The amount of wishful thinking about these four players here is enough to suffocate someone.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse


Rob Jackson is listed at 6'4, 269 lbs. That's a prototype DE in the 4-3. He is nowhere near a LB. He'd need to lose 25-30 lbs or so to get there.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009"

From REDSKINS.COM:
98 Jackson, Rob DE 6-4 259 R Kansas State 11-03-1985

My understanding is that he is actually smaller than that ... its why he never made it into any games.

Again, he seems like a Chris Gocong "linebacker" type.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Stop, what do you want them to do give up another 2nd round pick for an undersized, soon to be retired player?

Posted by: oknow1 | March 27, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"If we draft Oline at 13, I doubt he starts. I bet he watches, learns and they groom him replace Samuels."

He better start.

Samuels started opening game first season. Jansen started opening game first season and he was a second rounder. Dockery started his 4th week and he was a third rounder. Can't burn first rounders on depth with our problems.

We need our third rounder to be a starter as well.

Posted by: edvar | March 27, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

My longshot prediction ... back in January I think ... Jason Taylor is a NE Patriot in 2009. If the deal goes down that way, I'll be pulling a hammy patting myself on the back

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"[Chris Wilson & Rob Jackson] are essentially the same guy, only Wilson is better on special teams. They are speed rushers who lack the size to play on every down."

Now I'm surprised to hear that. I thought Wilson was the true speed rusher, and Jackson was more of a high motor guy, who just kept going.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Well from espn.com, he is listed at 6'4, 269 lbs. Among the top 5 ranked defenses that play the 4-3 last season (Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee, Minnesota, NYG), only one starting defensive end -- Kyle Vanden Bosch -- was more than 5 lbs heavier than Jackson (Vanden Bosch weighs 279). A majority weighed less than Jackson.

He was drafted as a DE, he played DE in the preseason, and on the seldom occasion he actually saw the field during the regular season, he was a DE. Wilson may be a different story, but given his limited skills to begin with, it's best if he just stuck to being a situational pass-rusher. But in no way, shape, or form should Jackson be considered for OLB, especially given the dearth of depth at the DE position.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"Well from espn.com, he is listed at 6'4, 269 lbs. Among the top 5 ranked defenses that play the 4-3 last season (Philadelphia, Washington, Tennessee, Minnesota, NYG), only one starting defensive end -- Kyle Vanden Bosch -- was more than 5 lbs heavier than Jackson (Vanden Bosch weighs 279). A majority weighed less than Jackson."

The Redskins ought to know the weight of their own player more than ESPN does don't you think? He is listed as 259 on their site. He is considered small by the scouts.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM don't be a dolt.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I am with smutsboy...on DE position I mean...ok that just sounds weird....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Some of what Vinny says makes a lot of sense, some of it, not so much. For example, Reinhart. So he was doing the other teams plays. Was there some law that said he had to do that. Why not Geisinger. How did Vinny craft a roster where Geisinger was the backup center? I never understood just dressing 7 OL for game day.

On Dockery. Too many people have said Dock was pretty bad in Buffalo, yet Vinny seems to overlook it. I do think a good mentor goes a long way, and I think Samuels fills that role for Dockery.

On Hall. Glad to see his attitude is right. Glad to see Fletcher talking with him. Another mentor situation. Not many guys Hall could look up to in Oakland.

On trading for Jason Taylor. I called it pretty close at the time. I said trading for Taylor was a signal that this team wasn't about rebuilding in 2008, but about winning in 2008. Vinny indicated part of the reason for the trade was to give the team confidence. Trouble is, the Vinny didn't take the other needed steps (trade for Boldin or Housh, for example) and we all know about Taylor.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

www.nfl.com : from the draft synopsis of 2008:

Round 7, Pick 35 (242)
(Compensatory selection)
Rob Jackson DE
6'4" ***257*** Kansas State

Pick Analysis:Jackson is a good pass rusher with limited run-stopping abilities. He has decent speed and burst from the outside and a good value this late in the draft.


Sounds like a "speed rusher" linebacker to me ...


Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"If we draft Oline at 13, I doubt he starts. I bet he watches, learns and they groom him replace Samuels." MV

He better start.

Samuels started opening game first season. Jansen started opening game first season and he was a second rounder. Dockery started his 4th week and he was a third rounder. Can't burn first rounders on depth with our problems.

We need our third rounder to be a starter as well.

Posted by: edvar | March 27, 2009 3:13 PM

Yeah, if only the guys we drafted year in and year out started. Good points on Samuels and Jansen. IDK for sure, but when they [samuels & jansen] took over the tackle positions, did they have a competent camp battle with other Vets?

Samuels was a number three overall (big diffence in caliber between three and thirteen)? Did Jansen beat out two Vets out in camp that year? That's what a RT is looking at for us - Beating out two guys, who not only want that job but also have Buges in their corner.

I guess I'm trying to find the line between what we have already and what we need now, versus what we need to have in the future (ie, a LT to replace Samuels, a RT to battle Heyer & Jansen, a SLB who can cover Jason Witten,....).

IDK if that made any sense?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Peri

Thanks for posting the Vinny interview pieces

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

PSP - I live by a certain integrety standard.

You say something analytically, I hold you to it. And I want to be held as well.

I hold true to the phrase, 'We're all in it together.' Live by it, Dye by it.

To excuse people from their hypothesis/theories/predictions and then slam the next man for doing something that even yourself recomended is beyond me.

I don't read mock drafts. I listen to Kiper and others just for analysis of players. That's what they are there for. Mocks were created by the media to drum up more bullcrap to get advertising dollars and fill air time. Not for people to say 'Such n Such has us getting Oher'.

But we are not talking about mock drafts here. I am talking about specific situations. You say DThomas will fit this offense and DJackson is falling before the draft. Then you say we should have drafted DJackson and DThomas is a problem child with bad work ethics w/o saying he had you fooled too. That's all.

He wanted to get a pass catching TE. We got a gaureented good one vs. converting a BBall player, which 8 times out of 10 usually doesn't work and the Redskins have already tried to do.


I think that is where I difference lies.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"He is considered small by the scouts."

Alright peri, find me one scouting report or analyst that said Rob Jackson is "small". JLC doesn't count, as he was also the guy that called 5'9 Eddie Royal "big".

I'll be waiting.

By the way, NLF.com has him listed at 269 as well. My guess is 259 is what he was weighed in at immediately after he was drafted, not currently.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Vickers -

I'm not convinced Heyer is our longterm answer or that Jansen can go 16 more games, so I think starting RT is up for grabs. I want a DOMINANT starter who will be one of the future anchors on the line - the way Jansen and Samuels were for 10 years, not Heyer, who is just ok providing reliable depth.

I think it's possible we could could have 5 new faces starting in two years on O line (counting dock as new)

Next this year, I'm leaning towards LB, DE then Corner, but the order is subject to review...

Posted by: edvar | March 27, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

"Possible trade partner? Isn't that something like what Vinny C loves? Trade partners? we give you Shawn Springs & Jason Taylor, you give us some picks?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009"

Now its going to have to be picks next year instead and the Patriots ARE in a good position to consider that a good deal for them. If Andre Smith isn't available I look for Vinnie to attempt to "trade down" with a team like New England if they can.

New England does have the 2nd pick in the 2nd round. And the Redskins need **more** good to great as opposed to a few **best* or **better** right now as opposed to later.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

www.nfl.com : from the draft synopsis of 2008:

Round 7, Pick 35 (242)
(Compensatory selection)
Rob Jackson DE
6'4" ***257*** Kansas State

Pick Analysis:Jackson is a good pass rusher with limited run-stopping abilities. He has decent speed and burst from the outside and a good value this late in the draft.


Sounds like a "speed rusher" linebacker to me ...


Posted by: periculum

---------

Yet from foxsports.com, post-draft analysis:

"The 6-foot-4, 259-pound Jackson is not known as a pass rusher, but he showed the ability to get into the backfield in Hawaii. He is not considered an outstanding tackler and does not have great speed."

http://www.theredskinreport.com/2008/04/27/washington-redskins-select-de-rob-jackson-at-243/

Yep, pure speed rushing linebacker there.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

"Live by it, Dye by it"

You mean like Tie Dye?

That phrase is ridiculous by the way....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

On Vinny talking about Haynesworth vs Stubblefield. Vinny's thinking Albert will be his Reggie White. Perhaps Vinny heard what he wanted to hear.

If Albert was all about championships, why not stay in Tennessee, where you had a great record, a very good team and one of the most respected coaches in football.

When Reggie White left philly, his coach was rich kotite. In GB, it was Mike Holmgren (a Walsh disciple from the glory years in SF) who had taken GB from 4 wins to 9 in one year.

Going from kotite to Holmgren. Yes. Going from Jeff Fisher to Jim Zorn? Not the same.

Apparently, I still have my suspicions about Albert

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Even if you draft Smith you still try to trade picks next year to get a greater part of the help they need this year.

Otherwise I don't see them beating any of the opponents in their own division.

Resigning Washington, Kendall, Daniels would also help.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Forgot the other part:

"He’s big though - 6′4, 259lbs and sounds like a project."

Another "small" OLB type we've got here.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I love how much RI commentary is being devoted to such a mediocre prospect as Rob Jackson.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

"The 6-foot-4, 259-pound Jackson is not known for speed ...."

Yep, pure speed rushing linebacker there.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009"

Speed or not believe NFL.com's analysis or FOXSPORTS HE IS STILL TOO SMALL to be a starting DE. He is still a linebacker. But then same could be said for Andre Carter who is similar in size and stature. Would you call him a 4-3 DE?

They need a 4-3 DE like Daniels/Wynn who can stop the run but also be a monster on pass rush as well. That would be Haynesworth or a Haynesworth clone.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

@zcezcest1

Both Reggie White and Haynesworth went to the highest bidder. Look no further than that.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"Forgot the other part:

"He’s big though - 6′4, 259lbs and sounds like a project."

Another "small" OLB type we've got here.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009"

Andre Carter is about the same size. Now you are going to tell us your other fairy tale? That he is good against the run? Yet they would often bring Demetric Evans in on running downs when he wasn't starting at the other end position.

Give it up he is way too small ...

Defensive Ends

“ Teams that want to use a standard 4-3 scheme often face a dilemma: there aren't enough great defensive ends to go around. Players like Julius Peppers or Jevon Kearse come along about once per year in the draft. ”

—Mike Tanier, analyst for NFL on FOX.[5]

The defensive end's primary role in the 4-3 defense is to get to the quarterback and create pressure. The 4-3 DE's are the smallest of all of the defensive lineman due to their emphasis of speed over strength. They still need to be strong enough to fight their way past offensive tackles, yet quick enough to pursue the running backs on runs to the outside. Ideal 4-3 defensive ends are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up field with quickness and lean, and they usually weight between 260 and 275 pounds (118 and 125 kg).[7] Right ends, who line up against the offensive left tackle and attack the quarterback from the blind side, are usually the best athletes on the line, combining a 275-pound body with incredible quickness and agility to outflank blockers who are bigger and heavier.[5] Defensive ends generally play the 1 gap technique, though will occasionally be forced to play a 2 gap in the event of a TE pinching in to block on run plays. They also in most schemes are responsible for keeping the quarterback from rolling out of the pocket to make big gains running.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"Otherwise I don't see them beating any of the opponents in their own division"

Despite going 3-3 in the division last year...suddenly they're going to go from 3-3, to 0-6. Nice.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"I am talking about specific situations. You say DThomas will fit this offense and DJackson is falling before the draft. Then you say we should have drafted DJackson and DThomas is a problem child with bad work ethics w/o saying he had you fooled too. That's all."

Tell me why, in any sense, would you give a damn about whether or not JLC was right, owned up to being wrong, or called himself out for missing something? What possible benefit does that provide any person reading this blog, or any fathomable Redskins fan with? It's an absolute waste of space and waste of time.

Nothing that JLC says prior to the draft or prior to any offseason moves has ANY bearing on whether or not Vinny has performed his job properly. The EXACT same situation is if Albert Haynesworth plays god-like next season and carries this team deep into the postseason, JLC isn't going to come out here and say "I was wrong about that one". He's going to say, "that proved to be a great pickup", just as he's done with London Fletcher, then be done with it.

Once again, I could care less what JLC thought, or what JLC thinks. All I care about is what Vinny Cerrato did or does.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Titans defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch, a quality player in a 4-3 defense, points out the 3-4's effectiveness: "We have used 3-4 front principles where I'm outside the offensive tackle as well as defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, and it does cause hesitation from the blockers." Texans offensive tackle Eric Winston backs Vanden Bosch, saying, "The Titans gave us some trouble when they used that 3-4 look to my side with Haynesworth on me and Jevon Kearse outside of me."

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

'That phrase is ridiculous by the way....'

To you. It makes perfect sense to me. But as we move forward in times, people don't follow it as much.

Remember Apacalypto when the main characeter's father was about to be executed and the father knew as such?

That's live by it, die by it to the fullest.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"Despite going 3-3 in the division last year...suddenly they're going to go from 3-3, to 0-6. Nice.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009"

You still need a Jevon Kearse and Kyle Vanden Bosch ... heck a Jason Jones with 5 sacks, 3 fumbles forced, 2 passes defended would be great in this defense.

Haynesworth by himself will not be good enough. There isn't much beyond him other than Fletcher, Griffin, and LaRon Landry ... every other position could be considered a question mark because they are still basically unproven or have injury issues.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Both Reggie White and Haynesworth went to the highest bidder. Look no further than that.

Posted by: smutsboy

Reggie Wayne prayed over it. God told him "Take the money, schmuck"

Still, the difference is that White's main choices were SF and GB -- one coached by Walsh's defensive coordinator, the other by his offensive coordinator. philly was coached by rich kotite.

White got a major coaching upgrade by leaving philly.

Haynesworth didn't get a coaching upgrade by leaving Jeff Fisher.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

"Andre Carter is about the same size."

Are you seriously trying to prove my point? So because he weighed MORE coming out of the draft than Andre Carter, the STARTING right defensive end for the Washington Redskins, he's too small to play DE?

"Ideal 4-3 defensive ends are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up field with quickness and lean, and they usually weight between 260 and 275 pounds"

So let me see here, a defensive end that, according to nfl.com and espn.com, weighs 269 lbs is too small to play the position who's ideal weights are between 260 and 275 lbs. Got it.

Peri, I really can't fathom how you're coming to the conclusion you're coming to. It's pointless to argue with you when you can't distinguish between which evidence supports your case and which supports the opposite case.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth by himself will not be good enough. There isn't much beyond him other than Fletcher, Griffin, and LaRon Landry ... every other position could be considered a question mark because they are still basically unproven or have injury issues"

So for those following along at home:

Last year without Haynesworth = 3-3

This year WITH Haynesworth = 0-6.

Right......good stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"Live by it, Dye by it"

I don't know about "dyeing" by it, but this entire post is killin' me.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Now your citing the movie Apacalypto as an example on how to live?

wow...just wow.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Both Reggie White and Haynesworth went to the highest bidder. Look no further than that.
_________________________________________
"God" told Reggie to go to Green Bay... Benjamin Franklin was doing the talking to Albert.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"God" told Reggie to go to Green Bay... Benjamin Franklin was doing the talking to Albert.

Posted by: tripz

I get God and Ben Franklin mixed up all the time. Apparently, I'm not the only one.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Also, 4th, I like you too much to make you die by the hand of your own analysis!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I pattern my life after Monty Python movies: "Always look on the bright side of life" (insert crucified, whistling "Brian" here).

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Ben Franklin was the man!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Our #4 defense this year is dangerously thin at LB, DE and Corner. It is very strong up the middle, but weak at the edges. That means our dominant middle guys will be running sideline to sideline all day as teams attack our edges. That's not good when it's time to dig in and make the fourth quarter stand.

Posted by: edvar | March 27, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

yikes.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

I get God and Ben Franklin mixed up all the time. Apparently, I'm not the only one.
__________________________________________
You're in good company then Z. Many pro athletes mistake money for God.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

If UNC wins, I will win.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 27, 2009 1:27 PM


You need a little more than that. You also need Syracuse and UConn to lose. If UConn wins, you need Louisville to make it to the Finals. If those things don't happen for you, I win if UNC wins.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 27, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Me personally, I like money for nothin' (and my chicks for free).

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Tell me why, in any sense, would you give a damn about whether or not JLC was right, owned up to being wrong, or called himself out for missing something?

Like I said earlier, I hold up a certain level of integrity. RI is a forgiving nation, so owning up to your misgivings isn't all that of a bad thing.

We agree more than you think.

Like I said, I took a specific situation I happened to come across and talked about it. Then you came in and said past comments shouldn't be taken into consideration. I disagreed.

I am not talking about any other instances but one relevant to current Redskins topics which include knocking DThomas down. All I did was point to his comment about actually drafting this guy. What's wrong with that?

JLa recomended drafting DThomas. Fact or Fiction?

JLa knocks DThomas down currently. Fact or Fiction?

I don't hate JLa. I get called out for my predictions/statements all the time by LH, cL, and TE. I even got called out for backing Huckabee. I either admit my mistake or give reasons why I still think I'm right. But, I never do a complete 180 w/o acknowledging it. Ethics.

So, why can't I just post an example? Am I not allowed to do this when we are talking draft and he consistently slams our 2nd rounders?

Or do I just bring in too many social rules into a blog? I mean I can't go a day without the grammer police calling me out on a misspelled word when they know what I'm talking about. Spelling is ok to call someone out on. Analysis is not.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Our #4 defense this year is dangerously thin at LB, DE and Corner. It is very strong up the middle, but weak at the edges. That means our dominant middle guys will be running sideline to sideline all day as teams attack our edges. That's not good when it's time to dig in and make the fourth quarter stand.

Posted by: edvar | March 27, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Hi edvar,

If the Redskins are dangerously thin at corner, please point out an NFL team to me that isn't dangerously thin at corner.

Thanks

Posted by: --swb | March 27, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I get God and Ben Franklin mixed up all the time. Apparently, I'm not the only one.
__________________________________________
You're in good company then Z. Many pro athletes mistake money for God.

Posted by: tripz

I'm not so sure how good the company is ... but there sure is a lot of it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I live by:

When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm not so sure how good the company is ... but there sure is a lot of it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 |

Good point.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm feel like Cork 2.0 now.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Not that I care much since it was 20 years ago and has little to do with how Haynesworth will play in DC, but Reggie White played mostly under a very good coach in Buddy Ryan on some dominant defenses. I see Blache more as Haynesworth's coach than Zorn. If you think Blache is gonna let him slack you are crazy.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 27, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm feel like Cork 2.0 now.....

Posted by: 4thFloor

Therapy is your only hope...or was that Obi wan Kenobi? Eh....

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

It's pointless to argue with you...

---------------

You could have stopped there.

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 27, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

If we keep Carlos, our corners are solid. If he goes and Smoot is our #2 and nobody [aka Tryon] is our #3, we will have one of the weaker CB corps in the league.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

FICTION or PARTIAL TRUTH from Beantown:
(Kennedy's Korner)

"Last year without Haynesworth = 3-3

This year WITH Haynesworth = 0-6.

Right......good stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009"

Last year with:

Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Jason Taylor, Demetric Evans, without Haynesworth 3-3.

This year with Haynesworth:

0-6.

Bottom line: Haynesworth does not an entire defense make.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"So, why can't I just post an example? Am I not allowed to do this when we are talking draft and he consistently slams our 2nd rounders?"

You can do it all you want. I just don't see the point in it. Nothing he said is going to change the fact that, yes, these 2nd rounders deserved to be slammed for their rookie performances.

You calling somebody out on the blog for certain points is fine because you have a dialogue going. Calling JLC out when he's purely forecasting draft prospects via his own opinion (and not stating what the team feels with regards to them) is fine too, because he clearly isn't adept at it. But any attempt to lessen the critique on the team or FO by calling out JLC's previous forecast is extremely weak. The two have no bearing on each other.

You don't get points for seemingly "making the right decision" at the time of the call. You only get points for making the right decision retrospectively. Nobody cares that Charles Rogers and Joey Harrington were seen as great picks at the time, just as nobody cares that Mario Williams was seen as a bad pick at the time. All people care about is that Harrington and Rogers flopped, so Matt Millen did an awful job, while Williams is succeeding, so Casserly actually did well.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Why would we not keep C. Rogers????

I am a little disappointed that we did not make a run at K. Shaffer, but I do not know what the Bears paid him???

I think V. Holliday is a better fit than Wynn and Daniels, but Blache will stick with comfort, obviously. It also seems to me that it does not matter to Blache if he gets a DE that is a sack master, he wants run stoppers first, so I dont see them drafting a stud DE, I see OL or LB...

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 27, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Jason Taylor, Demetric Evans, without Haynesworth 3-3.

How many games combined did SS/MW/JT miss??

And really, D. Evans=R. Wynne, so thats a wash.

SSprings=D.Hall, so another wash.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"No Model is complete."

from "The Process, Business Process Modeling using BPMN"

This year WITH Haynesworth = 0-6. (NOT COMPLETE)

This year WITH Haynesworth WITHOUT A REALLY GOOD DRAFT = 0 - 6.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Jason Taylor, Demetric Evans, without Haynesworth 3-3.

This year with Haynesworth:

0-6.

Bottom line: Haynesworth does not an entire defense make.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:29 PM

Ummm 3 of those guys barely played or sucked. That argument has no merit.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 27, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

I love how much RI commentary is being devoted to such a mediocre prospect as Rob Jackson.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 3:42 PM

You shoulda been here for the Leigh Torrence fortnight.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 27, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

So, you think we had a bad draft less than a year ago, huh?

I'm not so sure about that. How can you come up with that conclusion so fast?

One was injured. One was completely raw. And the other was behind a pro bowl TE and blocking machine TE.

You think rookies can just jump out there and insert their ownselves in the starting line up of an offense everyone is beginning to learn? In just one season. The vets couldn't instruct them on the plays because they were trying to learn the plays their ownselves...

Zorn 1.2 will be better for everyone..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Extending the model further using BPMN analysis and Priest's channeling:

Philadelphia Eagles 11 draft picks
(2 first rounders.

NY Giants 11 draft picks. (1 first, 2 seconds, 2 thirds)
"Best in division" free agent signings.

Dallas Cowboys 10 draft picks.
(0 first rounders, 1 second rounder)


Washington Redskins 5 draft picks.
(1 first rounder, 0 second rounders)

This year WITH Haynesworth
WITHOUT A REALLY GOOD DRAFT = 0 - 6.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

"And really, D. Evans=R. Wynne, so thats a wash."

not even close. Evans was our best lineman last year. That has never been true of Wynn, ever.

"Why would we not keep C. Rogers????"

There's been various talk of trading him right before the draft b/c Vinny won't be able to (or want to) resign him next off season.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

smut, please, don't kid yourself. so evans was the best player on a bad line, great.

don't make evans out to be more than what he is, and thats a rotational player....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

M. Washington gone??? Did I miss something, where did he sign??

Posted by: gre28man72 | March 27, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"Ummm 3 of those guys barely played or sucked. That argument has no merit.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 27, 2009"

Clearly an elementary school kid again. When they all played together they beat Philadelphia, the NFC conference champion runner-up 10-3 for the second time last year.

Yeah THEY SUCKED ... what an idiot.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

There's been various talk of trading him right before the draft b/c Vinny won't be able to (or want to) resign him next off season.
re: rodgers
Posted by: smutsboy

this would be insane given our lack of depth at CB, and that Rodgers had his best year last year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"M. Washington gone??? Did I miss something, where did he sign??

Posted by: gre28man72 | March 27, 2009"

Not with the Redskins as yet. He could go anywhere ... perhaps even to the Patriots.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"this would be insane given our lack of depth at CB, and that Rodgers had his best year last year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

He was made a backup behind Shawn Springs and Hall. He wasn't very happy about that. Clearly Springs was the best cornerback last year. Hall's advantage was the turnovers ... he didn't drop interceptions.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

So, you think we had a bad draft less than a year ago, huh?

I'm not so sure about that. How can you come up with that conclusion so fast?

One was injured. One was completely raw. And the other was behind a pro bowl TE and blocking machine TE.

You think rookies can just jump out there and insert their ownselves in the starting line up of an offense everyone is beginning to learn? In just one season. The vets couldn't instruct them on the plays because they were trying to learn the plays their ownselves...

Zorn 1.2 will be better for everyone..........

Posted by: 4thFloor

This also says that it's tougher to beat out ARE than people thought. Despite his physica limitations ARE is an outstanding football player

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

He was made a backup behind Shawn Springs and Hall. He wasn't very happy about that. Clearly Springs was the best cornerback last year. Hall's advantage was the turnovers ... he didn't drop interceptions.

Posted by: periculum

Right, but Springs is gone moving Rodgers back up in the depth chart. He's under contract this year and if he plays well they'll pay him accordingly NEXT year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

"This also says that it's tougher to beat out ARE than people thought. Despite his physica limitations ARE is an outstanding football player

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

ARE is at best a 3rd wideout. One can only hope that Devin Thomas beats him out for the second WR slot and returns punts.

I still believe the Redskins will trade down to acquire more picks ... have to assume that a running back who can return punts and kickoffs might be one pick.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Our draft class last year couldn't beat out James Thrash and Todd Yoder.

What else needs to be said about the promise they showed their rookie year?

1 year in and things don't look good.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

This also says that it's tougher to beat out ARE than people thought. Despite his physica limitations ARE is an outstanding football player

Posted by: pabrian2003

Just not worth a FRAK (pardon the BSG jargon) as a punt returner.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"Right, but Springs is gone moving Rodgers back up in the depth chart. He's under contract this year and if he plays well they'll pay him accordingly NEXT year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

Given their salary cap situation next year I think that will not be easy ... especially if he does have a good year.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"smut, please, don't kid yourself. so evans was the best player on a bad line, great.

don't make evans out to be more than what he is, and thats a rotational player....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009"

Fairly certain that Evans is younger, just as strong, and a far better pass rusher than Wynn.

So, no its not "a wash" at all.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I can't understand why JLC reports that Daniels is unsigned, but Washington is gone. Or that D. Thomas did not show for workouts. Just give me facts not biased reporting!

Posted by: gre28man72 | March 27, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Given their salary cap situation next year I think that will not be easy ... especially if he does have a good year.

Posted by: periculum

The same could be said for JC. If he has a good year, it's gonna be like Rypien all over again: Have a great year ('91), sign a new, big bucks contract and be shown the door two years later. Ah, the curse of the Redskin QB's!

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

The only new guy on defense is Albert. Hall was here last year. He's not an 'upgrade' to the defense because the defense had him last season.

The guys that aren't here at this point, Springs, Marcus, Evans and Taylor were are significant contributors. Evans was solid, the rest were hurt. Springs was excellent when healthy, Marcus did good (not great). Taylor was not as good as Evans, but he did contribute a lot of snaps and tipped several passes.

We got one huge and hugely talented player. We lost 3 talented by less than full time guys and a 4th who was solid.

Is the defense better? Probably. A lot better? Depends on how the OLB and DE spots get filled and injuries, because we are more susceptible this year then last.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"SSprings=D.Hall, so another wash.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009"

That's about as stupid as I've ever read ...

that's like saying Leigh Torrence=Sean Taylor.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I think ARE is a good slot guy, even at his age.

Unfortunately he's forced to play out of position with us because we can't get a third WR better than James Thrash.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

"No Model is complete."
from "The Process, Business Process Modeling using BPMN"
This year WITH Haynesworth = 0-6. (NOT COMPLETE)
This year WITH Haynesworth WITHOUT A REALLY GOOD DRAFT = 0 - 6.
Posted by: periculum

c'mon this is BS

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Not saying being the best on our line makes him a pro bowler, but Evans is a good starter.

Good/great against the run, adequate against the pass. He is precisely the player we need next to expensive stars like Haynesworth.

Really my point is that he is better than Wynn has ever been, especially now with Wynn's age.

Posted by: smutsboy | March 27, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I must admit, I never understood the disrespect for ARE as a WR. He's a #3 guy, almost a #2. Plus he can be used flexibly in specialty plays like option passes.

As a punt returner, its time to turn that page. As a WR, I have no problem with ARE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

"Is the defense better? Probably. A lot better? Depends on how the OLB and DE spots get filled and injuries, because we are more susceptible this year then last.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009"

The objective was to show how the Redskins could end up going 0-6 in the division despite or in spite of signing Haynesworth. We will have to see how good he is without Jevon Kearse and Vanden Bosch next to him. Griffin matches up but he is a bit older and injuries have effected his play. Who else?

The Giants did the best job of upgrading in the FA this year. They have 11 draft picks. The Eagles have 11 draft picks. The Cowboys now have 10 draft picks.

The Redskins have only 5.

At this point I can see them beating Dallas ... maybe ... and that's it.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I can't understand why JLC reports that Daniels is unsigned, but Washington is gone. Or that D. Thomas did not show for workouts. Just give me facts not biased reporting!

Posted by: gre28man72 | March 27, 2009 5:01 PM

Daniels is, in fact, still unsigned. Washington is, in fact, still gone.
Thomas, in fact, did not show for the beginning of workouts. He is, in fact, here now. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a Jasno mea 'cupla' on that one.
[although, as I'm rapidly sounding like Cork 3.0, I wonder if Beantown will tell me to go hold MY breath]

Posted by: 4-12 | March 27, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

As a punt returner, its time to turn that page. As a WR, I have no problem with ARE.

Posted by: zcezcest1

Whole heartedly agree. Can him on punt returns, slide him into the slot (a natural position for him) and toss in a few razzle-dazzle plays that utilize his QB abilities...it's all good.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"c'mon this is BS

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

Look at who the Giants signed in FA. They did the best in the division. They have a tried and tested playoff team led by Eli Manning. They have 11 draft picks.

The Eagles have McNabb, Westbrook, last year's defense and 11 draft picks with 2 first rounders.

Dallas has Romo, Roy Williams and probably will end up with Julius Peppers which is equivalent to signing Haynesworth. AND 10 draft picks.

Tell me how you think the Redskins will be able to "replenish" what they lost with 5 draft picks because they can't go to free agency for help.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Thomas, in fact, did not show for the beginning of workouts. He is, in fact, here now.
__________________________________________
Gotta call ya on this one 4-12. Thomas was at the park for weeks PRIOR to the scheduled off-season workouts, let team officials know that he would not be there for the START of the afore-mentioned workouts, and has been at the park for the last week.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"The same could be said for JC. If he has a good year, it's gonna be like Rypien all over again: Have a great year ('91), sign a new, big bucks contract and be shown the door two years later. Ah, the curse of the Redskin QB's!

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009"

Things do seem to get worst next year ... I guess Danny is praying that the salary cap gets dropped or increased significantly ... otherwise they are going to lose some more players.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Daniels is, in fact, still unsigned. Washington is, in fact, still gone.
Thomas, in fact, did not show for the beginning of workouts. He is, in fact, here now. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a Jasno mea 'cupla' on that one.
[although, as I'm rapidly sounding like Cork 3.0, I wonder if Beantown will tell me to go hold MY breath]

Posted by: 4-12 | March 27, 2009 5:10 PM

What I am asking is some continuity..Daniels and Washington are both unsigned and not gone, D.Thomas was not at the first day of workouts not that he did not show up.

Posted by: gre28man72 | March 27, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

"Clearly Springs was the best cornerback last year. Hall's advantage was the turnovers ... he didn't drop interceptions."

I'd disagree with the notion that Springs was the Skins' best QB. Steadiest, maybe. But looked to me like he struggled to stay with fast receivers. And would have been a good cadidate for a shift to safety this season if he'd stayed.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Things do seem to get worst next year ... I guess Danny is praying that the salary cap gets dropped or increased significantly ... otherwise they are going to lose some more players.

Posted by: periculum

They're gonna lose ALOT of players, if there is no cap. Cuts will be wholesale with only the ultimately talented remaining. JC and Carlos could be in that group, should they have excellent seasons this year. The overpaid (and aging) vets that everyone seems to gripe about will be jetisoned like so much flotsam.

Then Danny and Vinny will go shopping...you know the rest of the story.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Evans was not the best defensive linemen on the Skins last year. That distinction goes to... drum roll please... the often disrespected Andre Carter. And he had an off year due to the high number of injuries amongst the front seven.

Evans at 30 just wanted to get paid. He was soooooooo good that the Skins let him walk and never made an offer. He's a journeyman -- nothing more -- and Wynn at 33 is a more than capable DL replacement at 1/3 the cost.

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Good stuff tripz. I hope the extra work translates into some desperately needed production this season.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 27, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"Then Danny and Vinny will go shopping...you know the rest of the story.

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009"

Or some aging vets would be kept on ... as sage mentors for young players and pseudo coaches who could still play at a high level in a pinch.

That's how it used to be.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Another take on a team looking to perhaps draft and OT, 3 slots ahead of us:

No news yet on Marvel Smith, but word is the 49ers are optimistic about signing him. But that shouldn't preclude them from going after a tackle with the 10th overall pick, particularly if Michael Oher or Andre Smith is there. Somebody mentioned Mike Singletary on KNBR saying that he didn't feel Smith's recent troubles were deal breakers. Singletary also has his savior complex and Smith could step right into that scenario. Smith is also probably the best run-blocking tackle in the draft, and if he has the maturity to handle the starting job, he would probably be the team's best run blocker. But, of course, there are the risks: Smith was suspended for Alabama's bowl game, refused to work out at the draft and in his pro day, he looked pudgy to say the least.

Oher might be a better bet and he could slip to number 10. Baylor's Justin Smith and Virgina's Eugene Monroe are expected to be long gone.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

sorry Siris. Carter wasn't our best DL. I watched Carter a lot and he was being handled, easily, one on one. He made average guys look like Jim Lachey.

Carter's main redeeming attribute is he doesn't quit, so eventually he makes tackles. But he just wasn't a problem for the guys he lined up against.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Carter sucked hard last season. Bottom line. I like Carter and thought he was a team MVP 2 years ago. But last year he wasn't as good as Evans.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

That's how it used to be.

Posted by: periculum

We must be in the same age group dude! I was thinking the same thing after my last post. There's nothing like a "field coach" for the young up and comers. But I've resigned myself to the, apparent, fact that, (in regards to this team) the old days are gone...there's a new set of rules in play now. Depressing, but true...

Posted by: tripz | March 27, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Springs only played in nine games last year. He's an excellent CB, but he's also getting old (34) with 13 years in the league. He could have played for the Skins for 8 mil next year, but instead they saved that money and signed the 25 yr old Hall for 6 mil/yr.

Springs signed a three year contract with NE for 3-4 mil/yr. He was one of the best CBs the Skins have had over the past three years, but he only managed to play in 70% of the games due to injuries.

Hall is an excellent long term replacement for Springs. I expect his aggressive play will translate into more interceptions and defensive turnovers. Hall averages 5-6 interceptions per year; while Springs best year was 5, with an average of 2.6 per year.

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

I am a little disappointed that we did not make a run at K. Shaffer, but I do not know what the Bears paid him???
Posted by: mhartz1 | March 27, 2009 4:31 PM

3/25/2009: Signed a three-year, $8 million contract. The deal included a $1.75 million signing bonus. 2009: $1 million (+ $250,000 workout bonus), 2010-2011: Under Contract, 2012: Free Agent

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

"Oher might be a better bet and he could slip to number 10. Baylor's Justin Smith and Virgina's Eugene Monroe are expected to be long gone.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009"

Best guess is either they get Andre Smith (who would be the best fit for this team of all possible choices) or they trade down. If they can't trade down I would guess corner back (likely available) but not DE ... the DE's this year are about as good as the 2nd round picks last year. Finally noting that if Smith isn't there for them neither will those DE/LB types like Orapko and Curry ... perhaps Clay Matthews but he seems to be 2nd round talent given his dearth of speed.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

"3/25/2009: Signed a three-year, $8 million contract. The deal included a $1.75 million signing bonus. 2009: $1 million (+ $250,000 workout bonus), 2010-2011: Under Contract, 2012: Free Agent

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 "

They have to save around 4 million for the rookie pool so assume with the signings of Monty and Golston ... perhaps Philips ... they will have maybe around 1-2 million to spare. They need to keep some cap money available during the season for mid season signings ... such as DeAngelo Hall was.

Its why this draft is so important ... why they really needed to be in the Eagle's or Giant's position draft-wise after signing a Haynesworth and a Hall. Barely fit Dockery in.


Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Oooops mea culpa meant Daniels not Philips.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"Hall is an excellent long term replacement for Springs. I expect his aggressive play will translate into more interceptions and defensive turnovers. Hall averages 5-6 interceptions per year; while Springs best year was 5, with an average of 2.6 per year.

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009"

He's really more of a replacement for Rogers. He isn't a shutdown corner like Springs. Springs was replacement for Bailey, both premier shutdown corners. Bailey was a replacement for Darrell Green who seemingly lasted forever.

Hall is not /= != Green/Bailey/Springs.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Stats-wise Carter (37 tackles/4 sacks) was better than Evans (33 tackles 3.5 sacks). Carter played more snaps than Evans and he's still on the team...

But like I said -- Carter had a poor year. He usually averages 55 tackles and 6.5 sacks. I believe the drop in performance was because he was the only front-seven player who remained healthy all year. Daniels was out for the year before the season even started. Washington was injured and neither he nor Blades were effective at fire-zone blitzing and causing any pressure off the edge. Griffin, Golston, Montgomery, Taylor and Fletcher were all injured at times during the season. Do you think opposing offenses used TEs to double team Evans or Carter?

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

On an even scale, Carter was mediocre last season, Taylor was mediocre last season, and Evans was mediocre last season. Not one of them was a desirable DE. Not one of them was "better" than the other. Taylor was the most versatile, Evans was the most adaptable to the situation, Carter was the most consistent. If it were possible, all three would have been looked at for upgrades. Unfortunately, that wasn't realistic.

Still, replacing the two of them (Evans and Taylor) shouldn't be hard, considering how little both of them brought to the table. Daniels, let alone Wynn, would easily make up for the loss of Evans, while Taylor's subtraction can't really be replaced (not because of production, simply because of his versatility). If the team gets Daniels back, the defensive line will have significantly improved over last seasons.

Linebacker? The loss of MWash hurts. Bringing him back would be nice, as it would essentially be the same group coming back. That position needs to be addressed.

CB? Springs played half a season, Hall played half a season last year. This year Springs is gone, Hall's here for the whole year. It's a wash.

The defense is improved from last year as it stands. Depending on the direction we go in during the draft, this defense can go from slight upgrade to elite upgrade (at the cost of an offensive draft selection). We'll see.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Hall will get more interceptions without a doubt but he will also get beat more often than Green/Bailey/etc. Its the type of corner he is. You have to accept the risk if you want the reward. If D. Jackson doesn't do two spot on CR-22 impressions, our record isn't the epitome of mediocrity that it turned out to be. Its worse.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Hall will get more interceptions without a doubt but he will also get beat more often than Green/Bailey/etc. Its the type of corner he is. You have to accept the risk if you want the reward. If D. Jackson doesn't do two spot on CR-22 impressions, our record isn't the epitome of mediocrity that it turned out to be. Its worse.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Santana Moss, Watering The Plants
Posted by Mike Florio on March 27, 2009, 6:06 p.m. EDT
A reader has pointed out to us that a video on the Redskins’ official web site featuring receiver Antwan Randle El also includes some footage of teammate Santana Moss in the background.

And he’s apparently taking a whiz.

It’s the “Wired Up: Randle El Part II” video on this page. Moss shows up at least three times in the first minute assuming the international plant-watering pose.

Enjoy. And try to avoid any lizzing while watching it.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Oh Lord, Santana pissing on camera.ou'd think it would be Cooley.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

The objective was to show how the Redskins could end up going 0-6 in the division despite or in spite of signing Haynesworth.
posted by peri.

What a horrible objective, you set out to prove that we suck before we even take the field. How about letting them play

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

You've got Evans a 7 year vet, and you've got Golston and Montgomery who are 3 year vets.

We picked Golston and Montgomery. It's sad to see Evans go, but the choice isn't hard to believe

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

So many still has an overinflated worth of Champ Bailey. Springs played a much better corner for the Skins than Bailey ever did. I can't even count how many times I remember off the top of my head of Champ being abused. My favorite was when he was beat he would fall down to make it look like he slipped.

DHall is the same kind of corner that Bailey is: a non-shutdown corner that is there to get turnovers.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | March 27, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Given that Washington and Springs played a bit more than half the games. That when he was in Jason Taylor was a positive. That Evans did the job ...

Assuming that Haynesworth replaces both Montgomery and Golston who both started and Griffin stays the same ... sans Evans with a Carter that is 1 year older ...

The only way I see some dramatic 4 down improvement is if Haynesworth is moved out to DE and Golston and Montgomery alternate at tackle.
Perhaps Montgomery replaces Evans and swings between DT and DE along with Wynn.

I don't see Jackson or Wilson at all unless Blache does what they were planning to do with Jason Taylor with them ... move them to linebacker. Bringing back MWash to help with the transition.

Sign a Dre Bly or Samari Rolle if you can.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Look at who the Giants signed in FA. They did the best in the division. They have a tried and tested playoff team led by Eli Manning. They have 11 draft picks.
The Eagles have McNabb, Westbrook, last year's defense and 11 draft picks with 2 first rounders.
Dallas has Romo, Roy Williams and probably will end up with Julius Peppers which is equivalent to signing Haynesworth. AND 10 draft picks.
Tell me how you think the Redskins will be able to "replenish" what they lost with 5 draft picks because they can't go to free agency for help.

Posted by: periculum

So everything every other team does will work perfectly, everything the Skins do will fail?

Giants lost Spagnuolo and derrick ward, Eagles westbrook statisticly not as good as Portis, Romo = playoff Choker and lost T.O.

we swept the Eagles last year, the Eagles lost Dawkins, Consadine, another CB, tra thomas, runyon's old as jansen, Jim johnson is having health problems

Why are you so negative on YOUR team?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

"What a horrible objective, you set out to prove that we suck before we even take the field. How about letting them play

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

Elementary school, junior high or high school? Which are you from?

Haynesworth probably hurt more than help against NFC BEAST opponents with the possible exception of Dallas. Its hard to imagine that the Giants and Philly NOT dramatically improved over last year given their draft picks alone. Factor in the cagey free agent signings of the Giants and ...

Both teams made the playoffs last year. It looks from here like the Giants aren't taking what happened to them with the Eagles lying down. Meanwhile the Eagles appear to be relying on their excellent position in this year's draft to make improvements plus replace players lost to free agency.

Dallas is different. But let's face it, Julius Peppers wants to play there. If they sign him that is the same as signing Haynesworth. They have their problems but they also have a popularity with free agents and 10 draft picks coming because of the compensatory picks they received.

Dallas will likely trade picks for Peppers. But they may still end up ahead of the Redskins. In any case that is one team they should be able to beat twice ...

So to be fair let's call it 2-4 in the BEAST.
If they are lucky.

The draft this year now suddenly became ultra critical.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

the old days are gone...there's a new set of rules in play now. Depressing, but true...
Posted by: tripz

everyone read this and adjust your fan-dom accordingly. we've got salary caps, free agency, parity scheduling, and record profits, don't ever expect to have a Gibbs style dynasty

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Elementary school, junior high or high school? Which are you from?

all of the above plus NVCC and JMU

as i said before, you support everything our rivals do, and squash everything the Skins do.

So, who is acting immature?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

the giants losing their defensive coordinator won't have ANY effect?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

"Giants lost Spagnuolo and derrick ward, Eagles westbrook statisticly not as good as Portis, Romo = playoff Choker and lost T.O.

we swept the Eagles last year, the Eagles lost Dawkins, Consadine, another CB, tra thomas, runyon's old as jansen, Jim johnson is having health problems

Why are you so negative on YOUR team?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

You really must be in elementary school or junior high at the most eh?

have you done your homework yet?

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Assuming that Haynesworth replaces both Montgomery and Golston (this doesn't make sense) why do you have 1 guy replacing 2 guys?

Perhaps Montgomery replaces Evans and swings between DT and DE along with Wynn.
(this does make sense)

I don't see Jackson or Wilson at all(this doesn't make sense) why should we not expect wilson to be 3rd down end like last season?

Sign a Dre Bly or Samari Rolle if you can.(this makes sense)

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

"the giants losing their defensive coordinator won't have ANY effect?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009"

No, their head coach is a damn good one already.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

You really must be in elementary school or junior high at the most eh?

have you done your homework yet?

Posted by: periculum

you answer questions with weak insults to hide that you know your point of view is unexamined, are you a politician?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Assuming that Haynesworth replaces both Montgomery and Golston (this doesn't make sense) why do you have 1 guy replacing 2 guys?

2008 regular DT: Griffin, Golston, Montgomery.
2009 regular DT: Griffin, Haynesworth, Golston, Montgomery.

2009: alternating 4-3/3-4 variation like the Cardinals play ...

DE/DT Montgomery Haynesworth Wynn
DT Griffin Golston
OLB/DE Carter, Wilson, Jackson

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Last year, out best d-linemen were Evans and Golston. Both played well, neither was anywhere near a Pro Bowl.

Griff was his usual oft injured self, Carter was manhandled repeatedly by rather pedestrian RTs. Taylor played like you'd expect for a guy who was dinged in a major way.

If you rank them by performance, Evans and Golston were the top 2.
If you rank them by $$, Evans and Golston were the lowest 2.

Evans is gone and Golston is unsigned.

Me, I keep the overachievers.

But our cap mismanagement has resulted in penny-wise, pound foolish decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

An alternating 3-4/4-3 hybrid like AZ's (and now KC and Pittsburgh plan on deploying) could be what the doctor order for the current defensive roster.

Not sure if Blache would consider deploying such a system but it does seem to make sense given the current roster and personnel decisions.

DE/DT Montgomery Haynesworth Wynn
DT Griffin, Golston.
DE/OLB Carter, Wilson, Jackson
OLB McIntosh, Fincher
MLB/ILB Fletcher, Blades.

Posted by: periculum | March 27, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

I HOPE Golston doesn't re-sign. That would be a brilliant day. Netting a second round draft selection for the likes of Golston would be one of the biggest blessings this franchise could have this offseason.

If Golston signs, we have him there to bolster depth along the defensive line. If he doesn't sign, we get a 2nd round draft selection. Complaining about not locking up Golston is pretty pointless right now. One way or another, he's helping this franchise.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: TWISI | March 27, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Daniels coming back is huge, even if it may not seem like it. He seriously helps fill a void. I would absolutely take Daniels + Wynn over Evans, price tags included. This FO has done well with regards to the defense so far this offseason.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

'...Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson designated pass rushers who arguably, like Andre Carter, should be linebackers and not DE in the 4-3. They are all small and so ineffective against the run....'


I like this post.

And this is why I still don't get the Haynesworth acquistion.

He's stout against the run--and so, a smart coordinator seals him and attacks the undersized/ancient defensive ends to his side for yards.

He has a great upfield rush--and so you double him and smother the undersized de's with some massive 330 pound tackle.

The team choose using its resources to add one guy on defense--Haynesworth-- when a vet slb/de (Canty/Bart Scott) is what was really needed.

But Prince Albert is on the team, and the folks who hungered for him have got to know that having him won't satisfy all appetites.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 27, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Daniels' agent, Hadley Engelhard, heard from the Broncos, Titans and Patriots, but they all wanted to wait until after the draft to sign him. So with the money being equal, it was either the Redskins or retirement.

Daniels, "I just want to win a championship."

Philip, if its about winning a championship, those guys in New England seem to know how to do that. The guys here ... not so much.

Actually, surprised the Skins aren't taking the same 'wait until after the draft' approach. The Skins have 3 areas of need, LDE, RT and OLB. If the RTs and top OLBs are gone, taking a LDE makes plenty of sense. What wouldn't make sense is signing Wynn + Daniels + a rookie, all for that spot.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

The Skins did well against the division against the run last year in 4 of the 6 games. Albert is there to stop ward and he'll make it tougher on barber and westbrook. I'm still thinking its worth trading up to get Curry, which would make our run defense strong ... and we'll need to stop the run to be successful in the NFC East.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm still thinking its worth trading up to get Curry,

how do we move up that much??

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

+++How many times will corky pimp himself, articles he's written, and his mock draft between now and the actual draft......???

Posted by: BeantownGreg+++


Sniff Sniff.. I love the smell of Shadenfreude in the morning!

PS: Thank YOU for reminded people of it. I appreciate it.

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm still thinking its worth trading up to get Curry,

how do we move up that much??

Posted by: pabrian2003

trade ... Det doesn't want to keep their #1 pick ... they need bodies. We need an OLB. #1 this year, #1 next ought to do it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

The Skins did well against the division against the run last year in 4 of the 6 games. Albert is there to stop ward and he'll make it tougher on barber and westbrook. I'm still thinking its worth trading up to get Curry, which would make our run defense strong ... and we'll need to stop the run to be successful in the NFC East.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 7:58 PM

And we can still run out five guys on the O.L. when they're in their 40's, because fixing the O.L. is hard to do, and boring?

And you don't need to block anybody to be successful in the NFC East.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 27, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

++++Now then, phase two: Attack the Messenger's defender may begin.

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Dude, people "attack" you b/c your self-appointed role as JLA's knight-in-shining-armor is pretty pathetic.

JLA's a big boy and I'm sure he doesn't need you to be the blog version of his mom.

Sniff JLA's jock all you want, but keep it private and get over yourself...


Posted by: p1funk |+++


Let's see, I said anyone who paid attention to JLaC's suggestions when it came to drafting was an idiot.

Explain please, how that's "jock sniffing?"

No, what galls me is there are a bunch of Redskins employees here, media haters in general, and nudnicks, who are under the delusion that attacking the guy who brings bad news will make the bad news go away.

It was sickening when it applied in the Bush white house and it's the same thing here.

Do I have a dog in this fight? Yes. But it's not the Post and it's not Jasno. It's working my entire life in he media, writing a book very critical of what it's become, and being willing to stand up for it when it's unfairly or stupidly attacked.

Screw the Post and its writers. I don't care what they say. But the braindeads and anti-American doofuses here who knee jerk attack a free press stick in my craw. And yeah, I get pompous an sanctimonious about it. Sue me.

And then, next post, I go for humor, because Jasso Cristum, it's only freakin' football.

But don't tell me I'M the bad guy or Jasno or Reid are the bad guys when it comes to the Redskins problems.

The Redksins problems go to management, ownership, coaching, and Front office. Pure and simple.

The fact that Redskins.com worships at the feet of Vinny, Dan and all things Redskins hasn't made the franchise a success. So obviously media input is irrelevant.

People would be better off not bashing reporters, and having a clue what the real issues are.


Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

trade ... Det doesn't want to keep their #1 pick ... they need bodies. We need an OLB. #1 this year, #1 next ought to do it.

Posted by: zcezcest1

that doesn't give them bodies, that's 1 for 1 until next year and then 2 for 1

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

But don't tell me I'M the bad guy or Jasno or Reid are the bad guys when it comes to the Redskins problems.
cork

I just wish they would focus on something positive occasionally.

People would be better off not bashing reporters, and having a clue what the real issues are.

Posted by: TheCork

reporters would be better off not bashing players and management, and having a clue that their bashing won't change anything

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

"Do I have a dog in this fight? Yes. But it's not the Post and it's not Jasno. It's working my entire life in he media, writing a book very critical of what it's become, and being willing to stand up for it when it's unfairly or stupidly attacked."


Cork, what is the name of your book?

Posted by: isnadd | March 27, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya

It'd be wonderful if we could fix the OL, OLB and DE all in this draft. Won't happen. Its a matter of which hole do you fill. Me, I take the best available at a position of need. But if I can add a massive talent (at least, that's what I'm reading) in Curry, he could be the difference between a good defense and an elite one.

fwiw, I suggested they consider taking ONLY OL in 2007 draft and 4 OL in the 2008 draft. I saw the OL's aging problem back at a time when it could have been addressed seamlessly. Vinny didn't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I hear what you're saying zcezcest1.

But it doesn't add up. Imagine if we improve our defense by ignoring the O.L. some more (or using a 3rd round pick ineffectually, which is exactly what the Chad is, so far).

Are we going to win the Super Bowl? What if we don't...will we be able to replace 5 old guys all in one year, the year after?

Hey, if we could get Curry with our 13th, that'd be compelling. But he's going to be long gone.

How about if we learn from our many egregious errors and start fixing the o.l. this year, so that some day we might be an awesome team again?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 27, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

TRADE DOWN... take britton and michael johnson...problems solved...and then just sign a vet later at LB...or hope clint sintim is available in the 3rd round...problems solved

Posted by: jeffco01 | March 27, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

check the article at fanhouse that says the lions most likely won't be able to trade their pick.

they also have 13 mocks andre smith and oher combine for 9 of 13, jackson 2, maybin, and crabtree

We need an OT if not 2, Fletch, Rocky, and Blades is a decent LB group. Curry is 1 of those rare guys that is the best on film and at the combine, he is sure to go early.

Daniels and Washington are getting closer to re-signing leaving OT the shakiest position.

it's exciting to think of curry on our D, but be realistic

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

TRADE DOWN... take britton and michael johnson...problems solved...and then just sign a vet later at LB...or hope clint sintim is available in the 3rd round...problems solved

Posted by: jeffco01

sounds good, i doubt sintim will fall that far

why not? re-sign daniels and washington take best OT in 1st and best LB in 3rd

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya

I'm going with the Ravens/Steelers blueprint. Win with an elite defense and a conservative/mistake free offense. So get another elite defensive player at the top of draft, then hope you get lucky with one of the other 4 picks for the OL.

But I hear you. About a week ago, I listed 13 guys likely to turnover within 2 years and 6 more that were at risk out of the Skins top 30 guys. Tis a lot of turnover, but you can't rebuild after you've invested in Haynesworth and created the most expensive payroll in league history.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

"No, what galls me is there are a bunch of Redskins employees here, media haters in general, and nudnicks, who are under the delusion that attacking"...
Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 8:41

Huh...how bout that, nudnik is in the dictionary. Damn my Alabama education and its lack of proper name calling skills.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

It's great to have you back, Phil!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 28, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

7 out of the elite 8. Damn F'n Duke Blue Pansies. Way to embarrass the ACC. And that's saying something considering how bad the whole conference besides Carolina played.

Posted by: will_ga | March 28, 2009 12:39 AM | Report abuse

Wow...unbelievable. Vince "the shamwow guy" busted for felony assault of a hooker the other day!
http://gawker.com/5187540/shamwow-guy-beats-up-cannibal-hooker

His mugshot is nasty by the way!

Posted by: will_ga | March 28, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

Yow!
It's all crystal clear to me now.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | March 28, 2009 1:05 AM | Report abuse

The Hitchhiker's Guide to Cork

I found this during the hunt for skippy.
Insightful. Makes me think of fava beans, with a nice Chianti.

Posted by: daggar | March 28, 2009 1:11 AM | Report abuse

"TRADE DOWN... take britton and michael johnson...problems solved...and then just sign a vet later at LB...or hope clint sintim is available in the 3rd round...problems solved Posted by: jeffco01"

Did you also by chance participate in the planning of the invasion of Iraq?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 28, 2009 6:38 AM | Report abuse

" JLC isn't Snyder. He's absolutely, 100% correct to be critical of the selections made last season, especially considering they haven't panned out yet. It doesn't make a difference what JLC thought prior to the draft. He's not auditioning for GM.Posted by: psps23"

Which is good, because it appears Jason doesn't have a clue who to draft, either.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 28, 2009 6:40 AM | Report abuse

Actually, I like the combo of Wynn and Daniels at left end, as opposed to relying on Evans alone. Problem is, how often will Wynn and Daniels be available?

It's a gamble. The Skins FO is not averse to gambles. Some work out, and more don't (like Jason Taylor last year).

The situation does motivate a hindsight look at last years' draft. If they'd take Phil Merling at twenty-one, they'd have been set at the position. Merling, who people keep mistaking for a pass rusher, turned into a very solid 290 pounder who would have backed up last season and started this coming one. Evans would still probably have left -- he wanted desperately to be starter -- but we could have signed Wynn as a backup and moved confidently on.

So in that sense at least, the gamble on the extra receiver hasn't worked out.

Calais Campbell, on the other hand, would have been a poor choice. This is not his kind of defense, and Blache certainly knew it.

Erasmus James turned out to be a waste of effort, but then, we didn't risk much. Chris HOrton aside, seventh rounders don't usually pan out either.

That's gambling for ya. All I can say is, it's a good thing we have hindsight, because damn few of us would ever be right without it.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 28, 2009 6:49 AM | Report abuse

'....Albert is there to stop ward and he'll make it tougher on barber and westbrook....'

And if this strategy works, teams will run at the skins undersized/ancient defensive endsand strong side backers-away from Albert-and get yards.

This was a major observable running strategy against the skins last year when teams chose to attack the defensive end opposite D Evans.

Chris Canty-de and Bart Scott-lb (and stop putting me to sleep with the age thing as the skins added Wynn and are trying to bring back Daniels) would've been better splashy moves for the defense. But what's done is done.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 7:23 AM | Report abuse

I forgot, do we have any Kansas fans up here (other than the Jordy Nelson fan club)? Well, if so, rock chalk my stinkin' Spartan butt! YOU YOU YOU!

The fix has to be at SLB, not LDE ... Marcus ... or Derrick Brooks ... or Freddy Keiaho ... or Cato June ... or Tyjuan Hagler.

Posted by: dcsween | March 28, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

My prediction is that the Skins FO pulls a Wimpy (from Popeye) and gladly offers next year's first for a second today ... and get the OLB before they get the OT.

Posted by: dcsween | March 28, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

zcezce:"I'm going with the Ravens/Steelers blueprint. Win with an elite defense and a conservative/mistake free offense."

Doesn't the Steelers' offense make a fair number of mistakes? And who would call Roethlisberger conservative?

Works for the Ravens, however. And both teams do have terrific defenses.

I think the Steelers play a lot the way the old Parcells' Giants did. Keep the game close until the fourth quarter, then see if you can hit some big plays and win it.

Not a bad strategy, really.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 28, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Skins Fans!
Periculum wrote
"I still believe the Redskins will trade down to acquire more picks ... have to assume that a running back who can return punts and kickoffs might be one pick."
Periculum, I doubt that, the skins just acquired running back-kick returner Dominique Dorsey, I will suggest you google his name before you comment. By my investgation, and watching his video,my conclusion is; he is lightning fast, but I may ge wrong. I'm a fan of your thread, but you may be wrong on this one.
Hail!

Posted by: abxinc | March 28, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Phillip Daniels will be a Skins this year. Courtesy the Washington Times:

Phillip Daniels' brief absence from the Washington Redskins is about to end.

The 36-year-old defensive end, whose contract was voided in a cost-cutting move in late February, told The Washington Times on Friday that he's going to re-sign within a week.

"We're working something out," he said. "I'll be a Redskin this year."

Daniels' one-year contract for the 10-year veteran minimum of $845,000 will count just $510,000 against the salary cap, as with fellow veterans Renaldo Wynn and Ethan Albright. Daniels had been due to make $2.15 million under his old deal.

"With my age and my injury, I understand where the Redskins are coming from," said Daniels, who missed all of last season after tearing the ACL in his left knee on the opening snap of training camp.

Daniels said his agent, Hadley Engelhard, heard from the Denver Broncos, Tennessee Titans and New England Patriots, but they all wanted to wait until after the draft to sign him. Since they didn't offer much more than the 10-year veteran minimum, Daniels decided it was either the Redskins or retirement.

"My son's going to be in 11th grade this fall, so I had to decide whether I wanted to be with him or keep playing," he said. "I decided that I didn't want to go out with that injury."

If Daniels had retired, his finale would've been the wild-card loss to Seattle in the playoffs after the 2007 season. Daniels began his career in Seattle in 1996 before moving to Chicago under defensive coordinator Greg Blache in 2000 for four years, then to the Redskins in 2004. He has never advanced beyond the divisional round of the playoffs, and he wanted one more shot at a title.

It didn't hurt that his buddy Wynn, who started at defensive end for the Redskins in 2004 and 2005, signed with Washington last week.

"I've been with Coach Blache for 10 years," Daniels said. "I know the system so well. The coaches all told me they wanted me back. I'm so close to so many of the guys. And now Renaldo's back. I don't know who's going to start [at left end]. I don't mind being a backup. I just want to win a championship."

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | March 28, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Real news hamsters.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/28/daniels-says-hes-set-to-rejoin-redskins/

He was chased by NE/Tenn/Den

He understands why we offered him the Vet Min. Good read..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

If you read his comments, it was the same exact comments that he posted on this here blog.

After relectuntly believing it was him, I emailed JReid who never got back to me. And cL said he would never use 'lol'. Ha! And Cindy said he wouldn't put SB as one word. Ha!

Just another example of why you can't take reporter's reports at face value..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

ESPN had an analysis of WR drafts on its AFC South blog. It loooked at the data for a number of years for 3 of the the 4 AFC South teams (Tex excluded, not enough years) and said that Indy was successful with its WR drafts and Jack and Tenn weren't because Indy had an established offensive system and an established QB which allowed the drafted WRs to easily fit in and function productively. You could apply this reasoning to the 2008 WR draft. DeSean Jack and Eddie Royal, 2008 WR draftees, were successful because they went to teams with established offensive systems and established QBs. Devin Thomas on the other hand ...

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 28, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Awesome, Daniels is coming back...and at the vet min contract that will cost less in actual cap value.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/28/redskins-to-bring-back-philip-daniels/

Posted by: HenryStin | March 28, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

i'll give you that one 4th, good call...still don't see how it supports your thesis, but that was an excellent pull on your part...

But I am disturbed that a monster of a man like Daniels would use LOL...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I have too many thesises out here. Which one?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence once killed a group of samurai warriors with only a ball point pen. This lead to the phrase, "The pen is mightier than the sword."
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Agreed La CANFORA, agreed. If we don't trade the #13, we've got to address this issue either at LDE or OLB. Someone on that side of the line will be seeing a lot of hats in the coming season. Having DANIELS/WYNN in rotation would take the pressure off at DE. We can take an OLB with #13 then, or trade down for more picks whichever. I still say we can get a quality RT in the second if we have that option, or in the third.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 28, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Demetric Evans our best D lineman last year? D.Evans is average at best.

Phillip Daniels a beast at pass rushing?

Comparing D.Evans, a mediocre run-only D End, to Antonio Pierce, a pro-bowl middle linebacker, is like comparing Leigh Torrence to Darrell Green. D.Evans in his "prime" is about as good as Julius Peppers on Oxycontin.

Posted by: ecale25 | March 28, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Washington Times reports Daniels will sign his one year contract with the Skins one day this week!

Good job Redskins Insider and Washington Post.

Daniels fills a glaring hole for atleast another year.

Posted by: thehogs | March 28, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

'...Phillip Daniels will be a Skins this year...'

So let us review.

A few days ago, we posted that there seemed to be the inference from front office moves that if the team could bring back a de and a slb, it wouldn't use pick 13 in the first round to snag a player at either position.

So far, the team added Wynn with Daniels soon rejoining the burgandy and gold fold: that's two strong side defensive ends.

So Marcus Washington's return is the final piece to this puzzle--and it's one that shouldn't be added.

The team would do well to go with any high-grade slb (Maualga/Curry/Orakpo/maybe Larry English/Cody Brown later on) as a youth move would be welcomed by this fan.

But if Washingon re-signs, then the issue becomes interesting as the liklihood the team will freelance with the pick increases.

Bloggas want a tackle when the team drafts what it thinks is the best players availiable.

And that player might be anything from a corner to a speed player to a guy who upsets us all until about dinner time on draft night when we see him in Redskins Park in a team jersey.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"zcezce:"I'm going with the Ravens/Steelers blueprint. Win with an elite defense and a conservative/mistake free offense."

It's a fine strategy to be sure. But it's certainly not necessary to move up to #1 in order to accomplish it. There is no guarantee that Curry will be THAT much better than any of the other defensive options available at #13, and given the astronomical difference in the value of the pick coupled with the astronomical difference in the salary of the picks, the Redskins would be much, much better of staying put.

The Redskins can still build an elite defense by staying at 13.

Posted by: psps23 | March 28, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I suggested they consider taking ONLY OL in 2007 draft and 4 OL in the 2008 draft. I saw the OL's aging problem back at a time when it could have been addressed seamlessly. Vinny didn't.

Posted by: zcezcest1

I just want the FO to do things that make some sort of sense, not perfest sense, as we know who we're dealing with.

Drafting 4 OL would not bother me at all, because in makes sense. Draft 3 or 4 bettering your chances that 1 will be a long-term starter. Daniels is going to sign and Washington hopefully.

With that, and Haynesworth we've helped the D a lot on paper. Dockery helps the O, but we need an OT.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

check the article at fanhouse that says the lions most likely won't be able to trade their pick.

they also have 13 mocks andre smith and oher combine for 9 of 13, jackson 2, maybin, and crabtree

We need an OT if not 2, Fletch, Rocky, and Blades is a decent LB group. Curry is 1 of those rare guys that is the best on film and at the combine, he is sure to go early.

Daniels and Washington are getting closer to re-signing leaving OT the shakiest position.

it's exciting to think of curry on our D, but be realistic

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:14 PM

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

cz, ps is right. Curry would put to much money on 1 side of tha ball.

we need Campbell and Rodgers money next year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

cz your right. I agree with thte ravens, steelers blueprint too.

defense wins games, run and stop the run, control the clock, things I associate to Gibbs and football in general.

we did have an elite D and added and elite DT, we were also 6th in rushing.

maybe all the OT's will be gone and we'll pick Maybin, Maualuga(?), or Cushing would any of those guys make you happy?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

the steelers don't seem to be too concerened with protecting their QB, though

Is this because they have the mobile playmaker Ben or an overall philosophy?

Or is Ben's buying time causing the protection to break down?


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I've read Cushing is a gym hound and takes a lot of supplements. he came to SC as a safety and grew into LB and then DE, and was moved back to OLB.

He did the most benches at the combine, "which is great if you need a guy to do a bunch of pench presses on the sidelines during the game" huhu

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

The best strongside linebacker who the one coming out of a college program where he was asked to play coverage and blitz-- a player like what Bart Scott was for the ravens for years.

With Wynn and Daniels back, there is no need for a tweener backer--unless he's a guy Blatche wants to put his had on the ground.

The 'backer has to be a strong run defender as well a he'll play on the left side of the defense.

That, again, narrows the list down to Maualga, Curry, Cushing, Maybin, Matthews, and Orakpo.

Any one of them would satisfy this blogga.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

but curry and orakpo aren't on the radar

so, muaualuauaga, cushing, maybin at 13

matthews would have to be atrade down guy. probably not around in the 3rd and not worth 13

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence waited patiently in Al Capone's vault for 63 years just so he could give Geraldo Rivera the surprise beating of his lifetime.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Starting to think Maualga is the guy at 13. Can play SLB this year and move to the middle when Fletcher is done. Or trade down. I'd be ok with either.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 28, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse


I think the skins HAVE to go Offense at 13 or trade down. If they pick an LB DT, CB or DE at 13, it's a total kick in the teeth to their head coach.

Let's see, $154 million to sign or resign defensive talent, then the only first day pick ALSO goes to the defense?

If I were Zorn and that happened, I'd have my resume out the next day, because I'm not going to be around long.

They're setting him up for a fall.

The only way Snyderatto can finesse the situation other than taking an OT at 13 is to trade down and spread the wealth among OL and defensive players.

Posted by: TheCork | March 28, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

And that player might be anything from a corner to a speed player to a guy who upsets us all until about dinner time on draft night when we see him in Redskins Park in a team jersey.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it has happened before, and I think you're right, Moe, it will probably happen again.

I just make the assumption, and I know it's a stretch, that if A Smith is around at #13, we snatch him. If he is gone, then I'm fine with either trading back or taking Oher, or BPA, ie, someone with a ton of either speed or Beanie Wells if he's available.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Just another example of why you can't take reporter's reports at face value..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:08 AM

First that guy at the NY Times makes up a bunch a stories and now the WAPO refuses to research and confirm whether Phillip Daniels did or did not post something in the comments section of RI. Yes, a perfect example of why we should be skeptical readers.

Posted by: mack1 | March 28, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Cushing would move Blades back to 2nd MLB

Not sure if Rey has cover skills, can he play outside?

Not sure Rey could beat out Blades or Washington(?) at OLB.

Laurinitius has 4.6 speed

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Drafting 4 OL would not bother me at all, because in makes sense. Draft 3 or 4 bettering your chances that 1 will be a long-term starter. Daniels is going to sign and Washington hopefully.

With that, and Haynesworth we've helped the D a lot on paper. Dockery helps the O, but we need an OT.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse
I'm notg sure that "drafting 4 OL" makes any sense at all. There is not room for 4 additional OL. We might fit 2 into the 53-man squad, but not 4. I think the draft needs to be balanced, meaning if we go OL at #13, we get LB in 3rd, maybe a corner or RB in later rounds. We need guys with speed and tackling ability to fill special teams.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

i'm for A Smith or Oher or trade back Britton +1

but some guy keeps talking about Curry, and i hear orakpo a lot.

i'm trying to reel in some dreamers

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

well there was room for fabini, geisenger, reinhardt, and heyer

I said this makes SOME sense, considering this FO

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

++Just another example of why you can't take reporter's reports at face value..........

Posted by: 4thFloor+++

Thanks for helping make my point.

First you sing the praises of the reportijng in Far Right Moony paper, then you make a stupid generalization about reporters-- a subject you don't understand.

How about sharing your thoughts with us on Nuclear Physics?

Posted by: TheCork | March 28, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

i'm for A Smith or Oher or trade back Britton +1

but some guy keeps talking about Curry, and i hear orakpo a lot.

i'm trying to reel in some dreamers

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I agree on Smith. I think Oher is probably the best of the 2nd tier of OT's. I'm thinking I would rather trade down than take him at 13.

I agree that Curry and Orakpo will be gone. I'm not that sold on Orakpo for working in Blache's scheme. We definitely should not trade up. We need more athletes, not fewer.

I could see us taking Moreno or Wells, whichever the staff thinks would work better in our O. But I would prefer to trade back instead, if we can get value for the #13 pick. That all depends on who would fall to 13 that someone else really covets.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I noticed it written above that "Daniels and Washington are getting closer to re-signing" - just curious, where did that info come from? That'd be good news...

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 28, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Jackson is 270 plenty big enough to play the run at LDE, the Giants and the Eagles have guys on that side smaller then that.

The Giants two best ends are 274 and 260.

Posted by: Flounder21

Could of points. The Giants use a different system that the Redskins. Blache prefers a big run stuffer at LDE. Why else sign those ancient warriors?

Last I saw Jackson was listed at 259.

The Giant DE's last year were protected by tackles consideably better than the Redskins (that may change this year)

I believe those Giant DE's played just a few more snaps than jackson.

I believe they were taken "slightly" higher in the draft.

I liked the kid in preseason, actually. Glad he made the team. Let's hope he makes an exponential upward jump this year. But if he gets in at LDE, I suspect it will largely be on passing downs, unless he's added some muscle.


Posted by: TheCork | March 28, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

A. Smith versus M. Oher?

I side with Matt McGuire at Walter Football.

13. Washington Redskins: Michael Oher, T, Mississippi
Michael Oher brings talent to command a No. 13 selection here, and the Redskins look to gain more youth on their offensive line. Chris Samuels certainly has a few more years under his belt, but it is looking like Jon Jansen's days are numbered in D.C. The staff is reportedly not happy with his 2008 performance and are looking to draft a replacement. Defensive end or outside linebacker could also be the pick, but Oher presents extremely good value here.

Pick change; previously Larry English, DE

...
22. Minnesota Vikings: Andre Smith, T, Alabama
Andre Smith could be a first-round pick, or he could completely fall out like an Alan Branch and Winston Justice. Everyone said they would be top-20 prospects, and teams simply did not feel their attitude was worth it. I wouldn't draft Smith in the second round. However, this is a year in which Brad Childress is on the hot seat and he could use help on the right side of his offensive line. Smith's run-blocking would be scary with the Viking ground game, but will he have a poor work ethic and bust? I think so.

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

The one out of box player I'd be comfortable with in a trade back situation is Percy Harvin because of his versitility.

Posted by: TWISI | March 28, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

A. Smith versus M. Oher?

I side with Matt McGuire at Walter Football.

13. Washington Redskins: Michael Oher, T, Mississippi
Michael Oher brings talent to command a No. 13 selection here, and the Redskins look to gain more youth on their offensive line. Chris Samuels certainly has a few more years under his belt, but it is looking like Jon Jansen's days are numbered in D.C. The staff is reportedly not happy with his 2008 performance and are looking to draft a replacement. Defensive end or outside linebacker could also be the pick, but Oher presents extremely good value here.

Pick change; previously Larry English, DE

...
22. Minnesota Vikings: Andre Smith, T, Alabama
Andre Smith could be a first-round pick, or he could completely fall out like an Alan Branch and Winston Justice. Everyone said they would be top-20 prospects, and teams simply did not feel their attitude was worth it. I wouldn't draft Smith in the second round. However, this is a year in which Brad Childress is on the hot seat and he could use help on the right side of his offensive line. Smith's run-blocking would be scary with the Viking ground game, but will he have a poor work ethic and bust? I think so.
~


Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

If you watch Smith during the season, he is a better OT than Oher. I find this other discussion not particularly relevant. Smith has the longest arms of any OT in the draft. He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

If you watch Smith during the season, he is a better OT than Oher. I find this other discussion not particularly relevant. Smith has the longest arms of any OT in the draft. He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 3:29 PM
=========================================
1) You mean during the season when they both played on NFL teams against other NFL teams?

2) Which discussion in particular are you talking about?

3) Once we fill our team with long-armed people, the Vince Lombardi trophy will be ours, forever!

4) He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking. The good feet argument does not appear unanimous, but yes he was good at run-blocking. In college.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Just another example of why you can't take reporter's reports at face value..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:08 AM

First that guy at the NY Times makes up a bunch a stories and now the WAPO refuses to research and confirm whether Phillip Daniels did or did not post something in the comments section of RI. Yes, a perfect example of why we should be skeptical readers.

Posted by: mack1 | March 28, 2009 1:43 PM

I was refering to the original blog post about P Daniels..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

twisi

'...The one out of box player I'd be comfortable with in a trade back situation is Percy Harvin because of his versitility....'

If M Washington re-signs, then the team-view regarding needs changes to where selecting a player like Harvin/Maclin would be a great idea.

Harvin's pro day let folks see he could run passing routes from 3 positions. He has excellent hands. He has game changing quickness. He is the kind of guy who excelled against top competition.

Harvin would satisfy the redskins' need for a 'field-flipper'- a guy who can get chunks of yards two/three times a game via a punt return/screen pass/whateva.

The skins should say, "F the blogga world," and take him regardless of the trade-back scenario. He'll be that good a pro.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

pabian2003

'...Laurinitius has 4.6 speed...'


Ten years ago, I'd say, "Take'm he's an Ohio State 'backer."

But 4.6 straight away speed doesn't translate on the field like change of direction and all-round athleticim and Laurenitis looked stiff to me when I saw him play.

In fact, to me, he's another Katzenmoyer (memba him?)--a guy who excelled in the Big Ten, but wasn't quick enough in the NFL for the pats to keep.

Linebackers today are as fluid as running backs as most of them were converted to the position from the backfield once they got to college from a high school program.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I was refering to the original blog post about P Daniels..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 4:02 PM

I hear you. But even that is only slightly less not important that what I thought you were talking about, in terms of judging reporters. If that makes any sense.

Posted by: mack1 | March 28, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, $154 million to sign or resign defensive talent, then the only first day pick ALSO goes to the defense?

If I were Zorn and that happened, I'd have my resume out the next day, because I'm not going to be around long. ...

Posted by: TheCork | March 28, 2009 1:42 PM |

Interesting thought, but cornsidering that the guy was a 50-something journeyman position coach "sleeping in Seattle" before Snyder plucked him out of obscurity, I think that at this stage of his career the whole thing is kind of a lark for him. Since he is a novice at anything other than being a QB position coach, and it kind of showed last season, I doubt if there is a big market out there for his services, and he knows it, so if things don't work out with the Skins the lark will be over and he can go back to "sleeping in Seattle".

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 28, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

check the article at fanhouse that says the lions most likely won't be able to trade their pick.

they also have 13 mocks andre smith and oher combine for 9 of 13, jackson 2, maybin, and crabtree

We need an OT if not 2, Fletch, Rocky, and Blades is a decent LB group. Curry is 1 of those rare guys that is the best on film and at the combine, he is sure to go early.

Daniels and Washington are getting closer to re-signing leaving OT the shakiest position.

it's exciting to think of curry on our D, but be realistic

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:14 PM

I brought up Laurinitius because we wee're talking about Rey M. playing OLB then sliding to eventually replace Fletch.

Can Rey M. play OLB?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

wooh I pasted the wrong thread, sorry mista mo

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

mistaMoe,

I brought up Laurinitius because we were talking about Rey M. playing OLB then sliding to eventually replace Fletch.

Can Rey M. play OLB?

Posted by: pabrian2003

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm going with the Ravens/Steelers blueprint. Win with an elite defense and a conservative/mistake free offense.

Zeke, I have no problem with that, except then we obviously hired the wrong coach. Zorn is a gamble on offensive magic.

Posted by: daggar | March 28, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

If you watch Smith during the season, he is a better OT than Oher. I find this other discussion not particularly relevant. Smith has the longest arms of any OT in the draft. He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 3:29 PM
=========================================
1) You mean during the season when they both played on NFL teams against other NFL teams? reply..No, I'm talking about his college career.

2) Which discussion in particular are you talking about? reply..The discussion about his performance at the combine, and his pro day performance with "man boobs, etc".

3) Once we fill our team with long-armed people, the Vince Lombardi trophy will be ours, forever! reply..One of the most important features of an OT is length of arms. It allows them to recover and push the DE wide.

4) He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking. The good feet argument does not appear unanimous, but yes he was good at run-blocking. In college.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, $154 million to sign or resign defensive talent, then the only first day pick ALSO goes to the defense?

If I were Zorn and that happened, I'd have my resume out the next day, because I'm not going to be around long. ...

Posted by: TheCork

If I'm Zorn and my defense is Steelers/Ravens level ... I'm OK with a conservative offense for 2009.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 28, 2009 8:23 PM | Report abuse

If I'm Zorn and my defense is Steelers/Ravens level ... I'm OK with a conservative offense for 2009.

Posted by: zcezcest1

good point. not sure where the line of having too much money on 1 side of the ball is though

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

A conservative offense is one thing... a potentially efficient offense severely limited by a couple of O-line positions is another.

When I see the 49ers defense overpowering our offense, forcing JC17 to become a running QB, it strikes me as completely unnecessary.

If the D can generate more turnovers, great. But if the O can never get short yardage or goal line TDs because a couple of O-linemen can't get the job done, how many points does that cost you? You have to think it's worth the investment to remove the weakest link and fix at least one of the holes on the O-line with the #13 pick.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 28, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

pabian

Yeah, he looked like player in the Senior Bowl where he played both spots.

In fact during that game, a guy named Larry English really stood out as he covered tight ends well, was strong against the run, and was all over the field.

And to be honest, Maualga is a good pick as versitility at the position is what you want anyways.

Folks must disabuse themselves of the notion that a guy plays only one position. I'd rather have a safety who can play some corner and a linebacker who can play any spot in a package than a one trick pony.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 9:21 PM | Report abuse

If you watch Smith during the season, he is a better OT than Oher. I find this other discussion not particularly relevant. Smith has the longest arms of any OT in the draft. He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 3:29 PM
=========================================
1) You mean during the season when they both played on NFL teams against other NFL teams? reply..No, I'm talking about his college career.

2) Which discussion in particular are you talking about? reply..The discussion about his performance at the combine, and his pro day performance with "man boobs, etc".

3) Once we fill our team with long-armed people, the Vince Lombardi trophy will be ours, forever! reply..One of the most important features of an OT is length of arms. It allows them to recover and push the DE wide.

4) He has good feet also, and is a beast on run blocking. The good feet argument does not appear unanimous, but yes he was good at run-blocking. In college.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

it is safe to say A Smith is at least the 3rd best OT in the draft, he won the OUtland for best O line in college last year!

just like samuels did 10 years ago, both from bama, and griffen.

Smith wants to play here, it seems, if available he's a pick that is hard to argue against with the age and condition of our OT group

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

moe re: maualuga

he certainly would be a decent use of #13, along with a handful of others.

I like A Smith, Tyson Jackson, Oher as decent value/need #13's

I just want fans to stop with the Curry, Orakpo talk, cause their gone.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

If I'm Zorn and my defense is Steelers/Ravens level ... I'm OK with a conservative offense for 2009.

Sure, yes, I'm sure he's happy to have Blache and the D settled. But no, no way does a former QB, Offensive Coord/Head Coach/Playcaller approach the season -- much less a game -- with the idea that he can just muddle through.
I'm not calling him an egomaniac, but you have to have some kind of stones to take an NFL head coaching job.

Posted by: daggar | March 28, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

I just want fans to stop with the Curry, Orakpo talk, cause their gone.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse
Curry is gone for sure. Even if Orakpo were there, I don't hthink he fits into Blache's scheme.

I prefer A Smith, I'm ok with Maualuga for value, I'm ok with Oher. And I'm ok with dropping back in the first round if there is a reasonable offer. We could pick up a stud C/G later in the first or early second.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 9:39 PM | Report abuse

I prefer A Smith, I'm ok with Maualuga for value, I'm ok with Oher. And I'm ok with dropping back in the first round if there is a reasonable offer. We could pick up a stud C/G later in the first or early second.

Posted by: frediefri

when/if Daniels and Washington become official, it steers the boat toward O Line, logically(?).

I suppose they could always cut wash, Daniels, or Wynn if they took DE or SLB

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Alan4

'...A conservative offense is one thing...'

I'd rather try winning 32-21 than lose 17-13 any day. If you add one touchdown to every redskin loss from last season, you get 4 wins and playoffs: let's shoot for that, it's an easy target.

No it's not. I'm tired of all these calls for 1980s style 'grind it out in the cold' offense in a world where the rules encourage passing and scoring--and winning.

We had a number 4 defense with a 'conservative offense' last season that was as predictable as a Seinfeld rerun and it got us nowhere.

Moe says--like an early '90s rapper--let's 'flip da scrip.'

Let's hope Zorn says, "F it," and lets Campbell earn his contract extension with his arm. Save Portis for December/January and limit his carries with a quick passing attack.

What's to lose? No matter how the fanbase feels, there are no grand expectations for this team next year.

I'd rather try winning 32-21 than lose 17-13 any day.I'd rather try winning 32-21 than lose 17-13 any day. If you add one touchdown to every redskin loss from last season, you get 4 wins and playoffs: let's shoot for that, it's an easy target.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

I suppose they could always cut wash, Daniels, or Wynn if they took DE or SLB

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse
2 thoughts..I'm not crazy about any of the DE's or SLB's. I think Matthews and Cushing are a stretch. Orakpo seems more like a 3-4 LB. And you don't get too many opportunities to get a stud OT. A Smith is a stud to me. I'm not so sure about Oher, but I like him.

I could also understand if the scouts love either Moreno or Wells. I'm not happy with Betts, love CP but he won't last forever. So a move at RB would be to replace Betts in 2010.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 28, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

pabian2003


Moe's wish list for pick 13:

Andre Smith
Rey Maualga
Percy Harvin
(trade down, acquire an additional pick, take a corner) Malcolm Jenkins/Alphonso Smith/Macho Harris

Who I think would be the best choice:

Percy Harvin

The Skins need to become an offensive oriented team that can score when it wants or make a comeback should the defense fold: that's how the stillers won the super bowl, btw.

Harvin is just someone who reminds of Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Steve Slaton, Felix Jones, Darren Sproles, Josh Cribbs: guys who have the speed and versitility to literally 'change the game'.

The bloggas will howl. Kiper will shake his head. McShay will remember he's a nobody. Mayock will see the vision in the pick.

And Moe will say I told you so.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 28, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather try winning 32-21 than lose 17-13 any day. If you add one touchdown to every redskin loss from last season, you get 4 wins and playoffs: let's shoot for that, it's an easy target.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I like the goal of scoring 1 more TD per game, because it is reasonable and measurable. Although, if you added 1 TD to any team's output it would probably average to 4 more wins and playoffs in many cases. Parity.

I have NO problem winning 7-3 or 3-0, too! Moreno could be a decent pick if the OT's they like are gone. He could add a dimension to the passing game. We'd probably cut Yoder to make space or Rock.

We haven't reallly seen Betts healthy in this offense, I expect him to contribute much more this season, unless we take an RB

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

I hear you. But even that is only slightly less not important that what I thought you were talking about, in terms of judging reporters. If that makes any sense.

Posted by: mack1 | March 28, 2009 5:04 PM

Most reporters lie. They slant the message to fit their pre-conceived notions. And they are stubborn to admit they were wrong.

The P Daniels original blog post, subsequent immediate follow up post, and then Daniels coming in as a hamster to post that alot of stuff was left out from his convo to JReid is a prime example.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 28, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Percy Harvin
I don't see how he would get on the field enough.
OT makes sense as a ten-year investment.
There are clearly a couple of 5-star defensive studs.
I don't know if the real studs will be there at #13.
But QB, CB, TE, and RB seem like positions that can't hope to get on the field enough to warrant #13.

Posted by: daggar | March 28, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

But QB, CB, TE, and RB seem like positions that can't hope to get on the field enough to warrant #13.

Posted by: daggar

Agreed, Smith or Oher

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 11:25 PM | Report abuse

4th floor:

Roger that good buddy. If you're getting paid to be a pro writer no one knows a situation better than you do, especially the great unwashed fan base. Read you 5 by 5.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

even a guy like Harvin (or Bush or Sproles or Cribbs for that matter) needs space in which to work. we need large men to create this kind of space, and for far far too long we have neglected this vital, but "un-sexy" necessity.

build a premium line to open things up, give our QB time, and put defenders on their backs and all of a sudden our current skilled players might look faster and more dangerous..

take Smith or Oher... or.. better still, trade down and select Britten and use the extra pick on a linebacker. we have alridge and dorsey already, but use a late pick on a smaller guy who can fly and catch the ball out of the backfield

Posted by: shally | March 29, 2009 1:57 AM | Report abuse

Can we get some new, news please.

Posted by: DownTownClown | March 29, 2009 2:10 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor: "Most reporters lie. They slant the message to fit their pre-conceived notions. And they are stubborn to admit they were wrong."

Lying and bias: two different things. Lying is an intentional distortion of truth to gain an end, however covert it may be. Bias is a tendency to a particular view, perspective, or ideology, that interferes with the ability to be objective.

All reporters have biases that they're supposed to struggle to eliminate or at least minimize. Most obvious in political reporting, where you can see some examples of outright propaganda.

Research suggests that we all have our biases. We're just not as aware of them as we are of someone else's. We're sensitive only to bias that disagrees with ours. If the bias is the same as ours, we generally just regard as common sense, or even keen insight.

And as far as being too stubborn to admit he's wrong -- well, you know the one about glass houses?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 6:54 AM | Report abuse

mistamoe: "The Skins need to become an offensive oriented team that can score when it wants or make a comeback should the defense fold: that's how the stillers won the super bowl, btw."

Please, no. The Steelers are a defensive oriented team. They controlled Arizona reasonably well and even got a big defensive TD. Then they almost blew the game by giving up a couple big plays on breakdowns. Their QB was called on to save their butts, which he proceeded to do.

That doesn't make them an offensive team. It makes them a defensive club with a really good QB.

This year, the best team won the Super Bowl. Last year, no. Last season one team had the best year in NFL history and blew the big game. So it goes.

Jeremy Maclin and Percy Harvin might, on balance, be the most talented FB players in the draft. But in order to affect the game, they depend on someone else to get them the ball. Outside of kick returns and end-arounds, that is. Hey, Desmond Howard won a Super Bowl with those skills.

The bloggers' consensus is correct: at 13, it should be a pass rusher or a big tackle.

The question remains, however, who? For every rookie blocker or pass rusher who succeeded last season, there was another one of comparable or superior talent who struggled.

No matter how much time you spend scouting, it's still something of a crap shoot.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

Which bias' are showing? Or is it all a big LYE? Soap. Suds me some more. This beer is flat.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

You don't need to use a #13 to get a good right tackle. This draft is deep at the T position and a good RT will be available in the middle rounds. The trick is determining which are the great future pros and drafting them. Now a LEFT tackle is problematic as the best one's will be off the board at #13. Book it.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

4th, someone once wrote, people will believe anything that reaffirms their preconceived notions. (I'd add to that, people will cast doubts on anything that contradicts their preconceived notions.) When you make a statement like "most reporters lie" you're practicing the same bias you're accusing other of having.

Posted by: mack1 | March 29, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

samson/shally

I understand the bloggas desire for a strong rusher/'backer or tackle, but my reflections are based on what I see the team doing.

Let's review:
The team re-upped with two older vets (Daniels/Wynn) at end, is trying to bring back M Washington and probably will, and based on some statements made last year, seems to feel a mix of Stephon Heyer/Jansen at right tackle will do the job of stablizing the offensive line.

I read these actions and see a team that believes in its roster no matter what the bloggas/media feel. Many bloggas are really driven by some of the loud mouths in this blog who shout down opposing points of view.

If the team drafted for need, it would have taken Sam Baker instead of Fred Davis last year. It would have taken a defensive end last year or the year before.

The team drafts based on who it--and not the blogging community-- thinks is the best player availiable. And with the 13th pick, that player could be anybody--including a speed guy like Harvin.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

From ESPN, a lesson in futility on Redskins drafting...

"The Washington Redskins have appeared in five Super Bowls and won three. But according to ESPN Stats and Information's rankings, they are not a solid drafting team. The Redskins' draft picks have only 69 Pro Bowl selections and just 14 first-team All-Pro selections. Among teams that have drafted every year since 1967, the Redskins are the worst in those two categories."

Posted by: swowra | March 29, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

We haven't reallly seen Betts healthy in this offense, I expect him to contribute much more this season, unless we take an RB

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 28, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Betts was healthy for the first six games last season. Averaged 4.1 yd rushing per carry, 156 yd on 38 carries. Only had 6 receptions for 44 yd in those games. Reasonable as a backup? Perhaps. I don't know if he wasn't used enough by JZ, or if he wasn't producing. But I think more speed could be useful for a backup RB/receiver out of the backfield.

Could Harvin serve this role? No. Moreno definitely could. Is he worth #13? I'm not sure. Perhaps we would be better off using that pick to get Wells, who could spell CP and be his replacement in a couple of years.

If we were to trade down in the first, then I think any of these guys(Harvin, Moreno, or Wells) would be very helpful to Skins.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

The pick should be OT or LB but Moe is right. Vinny is gonna do what he wants regardless of how wrong any of us think he might be. I can see arguments that are pro Harvin just based on how the guy plays. He was one of the elite players on the field against the best competition. And if you watched Florida ball you see how many different ways he affects the game. He touched the ball as much on handoffs and passes out of the backfield as much or more than lining up outside. Problem is we have bigger issues at other positions that make him a luxury we probably can not afford.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 29, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

You don't need to use a #13 to get a good right tackle. This draft is deep at the T position and a good RT will be available in the middle rounds. The trick is determining which are the great future pros and drafting them. Now a LEFT tackle is problematic as the best one's will be off the board at #13. Book it.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

That's where all this discussion is. IMO, ASmith is comparable to JSmith and EMonroe. I don't think there is much difference in the 3. So if ASmith is available at #13, we should grab him. If he is already taken, the question is how good will Oher be. From what I am reading, he is either at the same level at the top 3, or he is the best of the second tier. That's where the scouts come in. How do they rate Oher? I'm sure different teams rate him differently. Will he be a good LT down the road, or will he be a perenial Pro Bowler? If just a good one, we are better to try to trade down, and get an extra pick.

If we can't get value selections, then we have a dilemma. At that point, I want someone who will have significant impact on our team for many years. It could be RB or WR/PR or LB or DE.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The team re-upped with two older vets (Daniels/Wynn) at end, is trying to bring back M Washington and probably will, and based on some statements made last year, seems to feel a mix of Stephon Heyer/Jansen at right tackle will do the job of stablizing the offensive line.

I read these actions and see a team that believes in its roster no matter what the bloggas/media feel. Many bloggas are really driven by some of the loud mouths in this blog who shout down opposing points of view.

If the team drafted for need, it would have taken Sam Baker instead of Fred Davis last year. It would have taken a defensive end last year or the year before.

The team drafts based on who it--and not the blogging community-- thinks is the best player availiable. And with the 13th pick, that player could be anybody--including a speed guy like Harvin.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I see what you are saying, Moe. The team has filled the glaring holes, at DE(Wynn and Daniels), RT with stories that Jansen will be fully healed this year, and at SLB if they resign MWash.

So any team following th #13 pick will not know how the Skins will draft. Won't be obvious anyway. So if a team has a favorite pick that has fallen to #13, they may be more likely to trade up.

However, if ASmith is there, I say we take him.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

swowra

'...But according to ESPN Stats and Information's rankings, they are not a solid drafting team. The Redskins' draft picks have only 69 Pro Bowl selections and just 14 first-team All-Pro selections...'

This is why the smart money is on the team doing the direct opposite of what most bloggas/media-types think in the '09 draft.

The team had Sean Taylor and decided to use a high pick to add LaRon Landry.

Nothing against Landry: but why bring him in when at the time, there probably was the same need that exists today--offensive, defensive lineman.

The team needed lineman and a quality wideout before the '08 draft and took three pass catchers.

Nothing against Davis/Thomas/Kelly: but why draft three when one would've sufficed and the added linemen would've worked to solve a need.

Granted, these are old and much discussed issues. But they do show that when it comes to acquiring talent to groom into servicable, dependable pros, the skins just aren't getting it done.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 29, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Moe,

Yep, the numbers don't lie, and if we look over 40 years of drafting, Vinny is just the latest failure in a long string of 'Skins execs who mismanage draft picks. I bet most of those 69 Pro Bowlers are during the halcyon days of the Beathard/Casserly era.

I'm starting to wonder about the team scouts. Who are these guys and how are they vetted?

Posted by: swowra | March 29, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

whoa....slow down peeps. You can not judge a draft record over that long a span and suddenly apply revisionist history on past regimes.

The NFL systems were radically different. Longer drafts, free agency, salary caps, roster rules are all much different and thats just the obvious stuff.

Beatherd's record is not in dispute on building winners, count the rings. Even his time in San Diego where he took a doormat to the superbowl.

Beatherd didnt like high draft picks and routinely traded them, and when he kept them: d green, a monk, m may.......

Answer this, when the skins helped define the free agency era with the wilbur marshall signing (result: SB) think how much different a salary cap would have altered that?

that espn stat is interesting but meaningless in contexts....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

swora, so the scouts who found grimm/jacoby at the butt end of the draft, or knew the talent to poach from the demise of the usfl, or who knew to tade mike oliphant for ernest byner, or the scouts who knew an undersized CB from a small school, or the scouts who brought in a canadian league qb to return punts until sonny/billy retired, or the scouts that picked sean taylor over winslow, or knew how to game plan b free agenct, or the scouts that took a 7th rounder from tulsa at qb, or the scouts that helped build a team that stayed unfied during a players strike, or the scouts that built a lunch pail defense for ten years, 3 sbs....

listen, i am no apologist but the skins are still a great franchise, especially historically.......lets not get kooky...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

oh and numbers lie all the time. the financial system that is bringing the world to its knees was built on a mathematical equation:

http://microblogbuzz.com/redirect/18132680

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Moe,

Yep, the numbers don't lie, and if we look over 40 years of drafting, Vinny is just the latest failure in a long string of 'Skins execs who mismanage draft picks. I bet most of those 69 Pro Bowlers are during the halcyon days of the Beathard/Casserly era.

I'm starting to wonder about the team scouts. Who are these guys and how are they vetted?

Posted by: swowra | March 29, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse
swora, cl is right about that. I'm no apologist for this FO, but they will need to be judged on their selections, not on history.

The draft is a fascinating process. Our selections are mainly determined by the selections of the twelve teams drafting ahead of us, and their needs. And also any trades made ahead of us.

So I give the FO credit for not making our selection too obvious to other teams. That way we can't be game-planned.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

chrislarry

I have to agree.

Over the long term, people like Charlie Casserly, Bobby Beatherd had decent track records when came to the draft. And they didn't have the added situation of free agency to make up for any deficiencies.

But the present group that's running things has the advantages of money and free agency to go along with the draft and it's hard to argue they've been successful at it.

They draft the 'sexy' picks of skill positions sorta well. They seem to flub the boring picks that rebuild the trenches or replace depth lost once a law round guy get a whiff of attention from another team.

The team had ten picks last year and not a one made the all-rookie team is that normal or a statement about he quality of he seleced players?

Go look at the drafts from 2002-2006. Count the players from those years still with the team and you get the point.

Then there's a stated committment to the draft mixed with a willingness to burn picks for players way past their prime.

Heck, they've burned picks during the draft to move up to get guys-Campbell-most folks feel hey could've had had they simply waited their turn.

We have to hope they follow the football pundits and draft for need. Otherwise, expect more of what we already expect: the same.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 29, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

i feel ya Moe. My point was only you can't make sweeping statements across eras and regimes. And the current situation is NOT simply part of a 40 year trend.

Even though i am no fan of current regime, the rules of the league are so different that compare/contrasts are unfair to all without context.

Also the suggestion that skins have had bad scouts for 40 years is at best....tard.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

The statistic has nothing to do with free agency, salary caps, etc. It's about draft picks making the pro bowl.

And the stat is meaningful, because all the other teams had to adjust to changes in NFL policy just like the 'Skins.

Posted by: swowra | March 29, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"The statistic has nothing to do with free agency, salary caps, etc. It's about draft picks making the pro bowl."

they are not mutually exclusive.....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

any stat out of context tells an incomplete story....but whateves.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

even the use of pro bowl is incomplete considering the many changes in the process of how they are chosen and the criteria...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

CL,

I see what you mean.

I don't get ESPN Insider, so I just got that opening blurb I quoted. I'm not clear on how the calculation was made:

a) the stat is calculated just for drafted players who remained with the 'Skins and did/did not make the Pro Bowl/All-Pro, or,

b) the stat follows the drafted player throughout his entire career.

That would be useful information to know.

Posted by: swowra | March 29, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

espn insider is a scam, good man for not having!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The team had ten picks last year and not a one made the all-rookie team is that normal or a statement about he quality of he seleced players?
Posted by: MistaMoe | March 29, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Moe, it's more complicated than that. First of all, the all-rookie team is mainly comprised of 1st & 2nd rounders. Then there is the factor of the draft picks getting playing time, for whatever reason. However, the better the team, the harder it is to get playing time. So I don't think you can draw any conclucions from it.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

"The statistic has nothing to do with free agency, salary caps, etc. It's about draft picks making the pro bowl."

they are not mutually exclusive.....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

There are other ways to acquire players besides the draft. Perhaps a better judge is how many All-Pros has each team had over an extended period of time. I want the Skins to dominate that stat, not whether we draft someone who goes elsewhere and becomes a Pro Bowler. Remember Pro Bowlers are chosen by popularity, not necessarily by play on the field for the past season.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 29, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Harvin is just someone who reminds of Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Steve Slaton, Felix Jones, Darren Sproles, Josh Cribbs: guys who have the speed and versitility to literally 'change the game'.

The bloggas will howl. Kiper will shake his head. McShay will remember he's a nobody. Mayock will see the vision in the pick.

And Moe will say I told you so.

Posted by: MistaMoe


No more Inflated Ego Nominees, we have a winner.

Um, Dude. these guys don't know you exist. Nor any of the rest of us ham and eggers. Except Beantown, of course. He's special..

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

My longshot prediction ... back in January I think ... Jason Taylor is a NE Patriot in 2009. If the deal goes down that way, I'll be pulling a hammy patting myself on the back

Posted by: zcezcest1

What the hail are you patting yourself on the back with?

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

ARE is at best a 3rd wideout. One can only hope that Devin Thomas beats him out for the second WR slot and returns punts.

Posted by: periculum

You aim too high. let's just hope Devin Thomas can beat out Thrash as third WR.

To paraphrase that line from Bull Durham..."He's got a million dollar body and a ten cent mind."

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

any stat out of context tells an incomplete story....but whateves.

Posted by: chrislarry |

"Lies, damm lies and statistics"

I usually trust anecdotal evidence over proveable facts,

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I usually trust anecdotal evidence over proveable facts,

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 12:59 PM
===========================================
I believe the plural of anecdote is data.

E.g. "Global Warming? HAR HAR Libs! It SNOWED last night. HAR HAR HAR!"

P.S. This would also be James Inhofe's entire Senate career.

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 29, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

What all rookie team? If there was an all rookie team and Horton did not make it at safety I have to question the whole selection process. Don't know of any rookie safeties that played better.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 29, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

When it was suggested that Zorn (and for that matter, JC also) was being programmed to fail if the 13th pick were not used for the OL, assuming no trade down, a peek was made at the coach-hiring stats to see if there is any possible life-after-Skins for Zornball. It turns out, not much if the recent future is any indicator. Of the 14 HC hires in the last two years, only two were former HCs - Mike Mora and Eric Mangini. Surprisingly there were 5 cases where the leap was made from position coach to HC; Tom Harbaugh (ST), Zorn (QB), Rakeeem Morris (DB), Mike Singletary (LB) and Tony Soprano (OL). Several years ago jaws would have dropped if even one case hade occurred. If Zorn would want another HC job, not only would he be bucking a trend away from hiring former HCs but he probably would be waiting in line behind 3 former HC with SB rings - Cowher, Gruden and Shanahan.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 29, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"Nothing against Davis/Thomas/Kelly: but why draft three when one would've sufficed and the added linemen would've worked to solve a need."

That's why I think the odds are better if you spread your picks among areas, rather than concentrating them on one or two positions. But George Young, who built those two Giants championship teams years back, would probably have disagreed with me. He liked to draft several picks in one area of need.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"Don't know of any rookie safeties that played better."

Posted by: lifelongfan
-------------------------------
You don't have to look far... Kenny Phillips of the Giants played just as well, if not better than Horton.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 29, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

NFL types are always telling us it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft class, so let's look at Pittsburgh, this year's SB champ. Back 06 they had nine choices, including their 1, two 3's, two 4's, two 5's, a 6 & a 7. Not a bad hand to play going into the draft.

Of the players they drafted, two -- top choice Santonio Holmes and regular tackle Willie Colon, a 4 -- contributed in any way to this year's SB victory. A few others had landed on other teams, and a couple were out of the league entirely.

Yet the Stillers got a ring.

Or the year before, when Pitt had 8 choices. Got two regulars out of it (Heath Miller and Chris Kemeoatu), but everybody else is pretty much out of the picture. Oh wait, one other Steeler draftee did make the Super Bowl -- for Arizona.

That's why the draft seems to me like a bit of a crapshoot. It isn't the percentage of total picks who stick, but the quality of the picks who do, that ultimately makes the difference.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

That's a good point, RedDMV.

(Although for draft pick value, Phillips was a 1st rounder, so we probably win if you adjusted for that.)

This doesn't make up for having three 2nd rounders and one third rounder do nothing for the team.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 29, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

buen punto red...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 29, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

The NFL.com dudes have the Skins using 13 on defense: Jackson, Cushy or Maulayoua. They are spot on. In fact, the Skins don't need to waste any of the few precious draft picks they have on the OL in 2009. Here's why:

1. Samuels will be completely recovered from surgery and will be his old pro bowl self by the time the 2009 season starts.
2. Derrick Dockery is a big upgrade over Pete Kendall.
3. The Skins will bring in Richie Incognito to replace the undersize and underperforming Casey Rabach. Except not as a draft pick draining RFA. It will be a trade, maybe a lower round pick. The Rams acquired FA Jason Brown from the Ravens to be their center so Incognito is allbutgonzo.
4. Randy Thomas will be completely recovered from surgery and will be his old pro bowl self by the time the 2009 season starts.
5. Jon Jansen says that he has finally recovered from various injuries that afflicted him the past few years and will be his old pro bowl self by the time the 2009 season starts.

You can bet the foreclosed ranch on this.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 29, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

ARE is at best a 3rd wideout. One can only hope that Devin Thomas beats him out for the second WR slot and returns punts.

Posted by: periculum

You aim too high. let's just hope Devin Thomas can beat out Thrash as third WR.

To paraphrase that line from Bull Durham..."He's got a million dollar body and a ten cent mind."

Posted by: TheCork ******

And therin lies the problem. Most other FO's passed on Kelly because of his knees, and Thomas, well I guess he fooled them at the interviews because he seems to be all about himself. If one of those two can't beat out ARE, I think it will have been a waste for sure. ARE is terrible. Thrash is a gyn rat, a guy you love, but shouldn't be anyone's 3rd WR. Emergency use only, IMO.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 29, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

You can bet the foreclosed ranch on this.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 29, 2009 3:51 PM
============================================
Richie Incognito?

Never heard of 'em!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 29, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Richie Incognito?

Never heard of 'em!
~

That's that pr*ck that got unsportsmanlike conduct and almost pushed his Rams out of game winning field goal range

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Devin Thoms, I was reviewing the Cleveland game and @ 13:42 in the 4th quarter.

Devin Thomas SHALLAQUED Josh Cribbs while playing on Punt Return team. Cribbs tried to stand up and fell back down in a spin like a fighter.

So, we drove down and scored the game winning TD, Campbell to Moss

Ensuing KO, Tryon makes initial hit, but the returner bounces off breaks it outside and....Devin Thomas makes the tackle on a probable TD. That was 12:18 in the 4th.

Devin Thomas making key contributions on special teams in the 4th quarter of a game we barely won.

Ya Hear #11 made ST contribbies

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

NFL types are always telling us it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft class, so let's look at Pittsburgh, this year's SB champ. Back 06 they had nine choices, including their 1, two 3's, two 4's, two 5's, a 6 & a 7. Not a bad hand to play going into the draft.

Of the players they drafted, two -- top choice Santonio Holmes and regular tackle Willie Colon, a 4 -- contributed in any way to this year's SB victory. A few others had landed on other teams, and a couple were out of the league entirely.

Yet the Stillers got a ring.

Or the year before, when Pitt had 8 choices. Got two regulars out of it (Heath Miller and Chris Kemeoatu), but everybody else is pretty much out of the picture. Oh wait, one other Steeler draftee did make the Super Bowl -- for Arizona.

That's why the draft seems to me like a bit of a crapshoot. It isn't the percentage of total picks who stick, but the quality of the picks who do, that ultimately makes the difference.

Posted by: Samson151

That's right. If you look at team management objectively you'll see that most teams have some bust, some over acheivers and some guy that do just what you expected.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The other thing I noticed about the Steelers' 05 and 06 drafts -- those two OL regulars they got were in the middle rounds.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

For the sake of symmetry, I also looked at the 05 06 draft classes for Arizona. The 06 crop produced one starter (G Deuce Lutui) and 3 reserves, including Matt Leinart. The 05 crew yielded regular Antrel Rolle (#1) and backup Elton Brown.

That's with all their expected choices plus an extra third rounder in 2005.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

freddiefritz:

Yes, Mr. FRITZ. My sentiments exactly.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

anton

the rams tendered ingognito and i believe he signed it, so he is off the market, unless the rams decide to trade him.. he is a hothead anyway..

better to trade down and draft Mack if we really want to secure the center position for years.. or consider unger even later in round 1 or early round 2 after a trade down...

Posted by: shally | March 29, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

anton

the rams tendered ingognito and i believe he signed it, so he is off the market, unless the rams decide to trade him.. he is a hothead anyway..

Posted by: shally | March 29, 2009 5:33 PM

Shally - why would the Rams sign Brown when they had Incognito at center? Are they going to move one of them to another line slot or do they think they can trade Incognito? And how "OL weird" was that Rams game in 2008? It was the "who can be the biggest OL blockhead?" derby that Kendall won by a hair over Incognito.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 29, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

On an even scale, Carter was mediocre last season, Taylor was mediocre last season, and Evans was mediocre last season. Not one of them was a desirable DE. Not one of them was "better" than the other. Taylor was the most versatile, Evans was the most adaptable to the situation, Carter was the most consistent. If it were possible, all three would have been looked at for upgrades. Unfortunately, that wasn't realistic.--PSPS23

What is this, revisionist theory time? Evans left, ergo he was as mediocre as Taylor?

Taylor was flat out awful. Trust me, I was against the trade and watched him like a hawk to see what he did. He did NOTHING. He was pushed out of the way on running plays, and stoned on pass plays. Credit where it's due. He was VERY GOOD at jumping up and occasionally blocking a pass.

Of course that was because he was stoned on his pass rushes and at 6'6" got lucky at times. Dude would have starred in beach volleyball.

Carter is woefully undersized. i saw the skins play in SF, with Binocs, and there were times I thought I was watching the chopsticks of the guy eating Chinese in front of me. Nope it as Carter's skinny legs.

Evans is a rotation guy, not a starter on a contender, but believe me, much better against the run and even better against the pass than Taylor.

At this rate, you'll have Taylor promoted to Saint Bruce status. He got old, he got hurt, he danced instead of worked out. Shiite happens.

Notice how many teams have tried to snap him up since the 'skins cut him.

If the Pats get him he'll play LB or situational pass rusher, and their scheme will make him look better than he is.

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

so when you look at guys like Landry, Golston, Motgomery

Blades and now Horton, the Skins have been drafting competitively

also, Ryan Clark is a strange player in the mix

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Somewhere Parcells just shat himself laughing at the Skins:

Could Jason Taylor Return To Dolphins?
Posted by Aaron Wilson on March 29, 2009, 4:45 p.m.
Although it’s widely believed in NFL circles that the relationship between the Miami Dolphins and veteran defensive end Jason Taylor eroded to the point of no return last year, the coldness has apparently thawed.

According to Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald, Taylor and V.P. of football operations Bill Parcells have mended fences to the point where Taylor potentially rejoining the Dolphins after spending last season with the Washington Redskins following a high-profile trade is no longer out of the question.

Taylor and Parcells reportedly are on good terms now, chatting at a local country club since the trade.

And the Dolphins could definitely use a pass rusher to work in tandem with outside linebacker Joey Porter.

As the article noted, though, Taylor would probably have to commit to attending offseason workouts for a formal reconciliation to be negotiated.

Taylor has also been mentioned as a strong free agent possibility for the New England Patriots. Also, Taylor is friends with Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 29, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

anton

the rams tendered ingognito and i believe he signed it, so he is off the market, unless the rams decide to trade him.. he is a hothead anyway..

Posted by: shally | March 29, 2009 5:33 PM

Shally - why would the Rams sign Brown when they had Incognito at center? Are they going to move one of them to another line slot or do they think they can trade Incognito? And how "OL weird" was that Rams game in 2008? It was the "who can be the biggest OL blockhead?" derby that Kendall won by a hair over Incognito.

Posted by: AntonChigurh

1. I don't like Incognito
2. The rams can move that dude to gaurd

funny game analysis, biggest OL blockhead contest

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

What better trade than the one where you get two picks AND the traded player back the next season?

And Samson, comparing the Steelers drafts in recent years to the Skins is a joke. The difference is the Steelers consistently had 1st rounders pan out for them in the late 90s/early 00s and don't NEED 100% of their picks to pan out in a given year. Plus they have a far better cap situation on average because they don't go doling out hundreds of millions for guys who did their best work in another team's uniform. Plus they'll always be able to do more with less because they always have elite coaching and their FO won't cut a guy or fire their coach for having one bad season. Bring the Pittsburgh stability to Washington and you'd be surprised how much more wins would be had...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 29, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Richie Incognito?

Never heard of 'em!
~

That's that pr*ck that got unsportsmanlike conduct and almost pushed his Rams out of game winning field goal range

Posted by: pabrian2003


What's that guy's last name again, pabrian?

Posted by: TheCork | March 29, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

I thought I was watching the chopsticks of the guy eating Chinese in front of me. Nope it as Carter's skinny legs.~cork~

funny

re: Taylor, the only saving grace of his acquisition, for me, is it was to replace injured players (Daniels, Buzbee). Too bad it didn't work out.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

brownwood: "And Samson, comparing the Steelers drafts in recent years to the Skins is a joke. The difference is the Steelers consistently had 1st rounders pan out for them in the late 90s/early 00s and don't NEED 100% of their picks to pan out in a given year. Plus they have a far better cap situation on average because they don't go doling out hundreds of millions for guys who did their best work in another team's uniform. Plus they'll always be able to do more with less because they always have elite coaching and their FO won't cut a guy or fire their coach for having one bad season. Bring the Pittsburgh stability to Washington and you'd be surprised how much more wins would be had..."

Who's comparing Pittsburgh to the Redskins? All I pointed out was that neither Pitt nor Arizona got much help from their draft classes 3 & 4 seasons later...

By the way, the rest of that verbiage you put up? That's speculation. Maybe it's a factor, maybe it's not. I can't tell. My point being, neither can you.

Posted by: brownwood26

Posted by: Samson151 | March 29, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Bring the Pittsburgh stability to Washington and you'd be surprised how much more wins would be had...

Posted by: brownwood26

Let's start it with fan support!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Who's comparing Pittsburgh to the Redskins? All I pointed out was that neither Pitt nor Arizona got much help from their draft classes 3 & 4 seasons later...

By the way, the rest of that verbiage you put up? That's speculation. Maybe it's a factor, maybe it's not. I can't tell. My point being, neither can you.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Richie Incognito: That's that pr*ck that got unsportsmanlike conduct and almost pushed his Rams out of game winning field goal range

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 4:31 PM |

Well put, monsieur. You read the officials like a book.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 29, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Zach Thomas' Wife (Jason Taylor's sister) Had Run-In With Same Officer as Ryan Moats

from fanhouse

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor is married to Zach Thomas's sister.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 29, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

NEW POST...PLEASE!!!!

Posted by: rickyroge | March 29, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Well put, monsieur. You read the officials like a book.

Posted by: AntonChigurh

just recalling a Dick Incognito play

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

This may have already been said, but look at the Redskins first round picks when they winning championships.

From 1970 to 1990 the Redskins drafted only three players in the firsr round:
1980: Art Monk
1981: Mark May
1983: Darrell Green

That's it. The other 18 picks were traded for players or draft picks.

Of course when we did start regularly drafting again in 1990 the next five first round picks included future hall-of-famers:
Bobby Wilson
Desmond Howard
Tom Carter
Heath Shuler*
Michael Westbrook

* 1st ballot guarantee

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

isnadd,
Since 1999 it's
champ bailey,
lavar arrington,
chris samuels, HOF
rod gardner,
patrick ramsay,
carlos rodgers
sean taylor, HOF potential
laron landry,

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

kenard lang and andre johnson, honorable mention

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

isnadd,
Since 1999 it's
champ bailey,
lavar arrington,
chris samuels, HOF
rod gardner,
patrick ramsay,
carlos rodgers
sean taylor, HOF potential
laron landry,

Posted by: pabrian2003
---------------------------------------

Thanks pabrian, what's your point? My point was that when the Skins were not drafting first round picks they were a pretty successful franchise.

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Thanks pabrian, what's your point? My point was that when the Skins were not drafting first round picks they were a pretty successful franchise.

Posted by: isnadd

My point is you picked 5 to make it look bad, when the 8 most recent have been pretty good

My point is the FO has gotten better, thanks to Gibbs (I think.)

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

pabrian, i'll type slower since it appears you may be from Pennsyltucky.

The redskins were a championship team when they were not drafting 1st round picks. They built their best teams by trading down and stockpiling more players in the middle and lower rounds. That front office was far more effective than our current front office.

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

"kenard lang and andre johnson, honorable mention"

pabrian, the andre johnson you mention above was one of the biggest busts in Redskins history. I think you are thinking of Tre Johnson who we drafted in the 2nd round of the 1994 draft...

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

pabrian, i'll type slower since it appears you may be from Pennsyltucky.

The redskins were a championship team when they were not drafting 1st round picks. They built their best teams by trading down and stockpiling more players in the middle and lower rounds. That front office was far more effective than our current front office.

Posted by: isnadd

ooooooh how insulting:-)

How would those championship teams have been without
Art Monk and Darrell Green,Mr. Metropolis??????

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

pabrian, the andre johnson you mention above was one of the biggest busts in Redskins history. I think you are thinking of Tre Johnson who we drafted in the 2nd round of the 1994 draft...

Posted by: isnadd

I know who he is. I was just mentioning the 2 between the 1st rounders that you listed and the 8 that i listed

Johnson was a bust. Lang was a decent pick, that we were unable too hang on to.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 29, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

The redskins were a championship team when they were not drafting 1st round picks. They built their best teams by trading down and stockpiling more players in the middle and lower rounds. That front office was far more effective than our current front office.

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 9:22 PM

Let's not forget that the USFL folded during that era which provided Gary Clark and Kelvin Bryant amongst others. That helped a lot as well.

Posted by: edvar | March 29, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

The redskins were a championship team when they were not drafting 1st round picks. They built their best teams by trading down and stockpiling more players in the middle and lower rounds. That front office was far more effective than our current front office.

Posted by: isnadd | March 29, 2009 9:22 PM

Also, that was a very different time for pro football. Gibbs 1.0 ended just at the beginning of the salary cap era, and at the very early years of true free agency. Back then, they could hide players on injured reserve and had more flexibility to "work" the system.

I don't think this proves or disproves your point, but to compare front office strategies to the pre salary cap era is in a lot of ways kind of pointless.

Posted by: edvar | March 29, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

With the 13th pick in the draft, the Skins select Brian Cushing, University of Southern California...........

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20090328_patriots_draft.7e4a77d0.html

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 29, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

The Skins should hope the lions take Stafford with the number one pick and then hope Andre Smith really does fall to # 13...if that happens (which is very possible) I could definitely foresee the trade with the lions to give up our #13 pick for their #20 and #33 pick. Then the lions get their franchise QB and their bookend Left Tackle. At one point these two were projected to go #1 and #2 so they would definitely be getting a good deal in exchange for those two picks. Then we get Oher to man up the RT spot at #20 and either Clint Sintim to fill in the LB hole or Michael Johnson to fill in the DE hole. Both sides get what they want and then in the 3rd round depending on who we take with the 33 pick we get either a DE or LB. We would definitely come out of the day with a GREAT draft. This can definitely be done

Posted by: jeffco01 | March 29, 2009 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Jeffco

Interesting scenario. If we could trade back and get two first rounders, I'd grab RT first and the Center/Guard - Mack from Cal after that. Those would be two 10 year anchors on the o line where we will be in desperate trouble soon if we don't start re-building dominance. Sign Daniels at DE so we're covered for the year there, and grab the best LB in the third round.

Next year, we have all of our picks (still, I hope...), so we can go after some monster skill players in rounds 1 & 2, and then continue to build the O line and add depth from there.

Oh, the possibilities...

Posted by: edvar | March 29, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Interesting possible strategy jeffco... Oher or Eben Britton at #20... But maybe consider getting Alex Mack or Mack Unger (the top-rated C/G's) at #33 instead of LB or DE, especially if we get P Daniels and M Washington back (and use our 3rd round pick on LB/DE). Then we might have the makings of a dominant O-line.

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 29, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

wow edvar beat me to it, i need to write faster

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 29, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

I've got a bad feeling about BRIAN CUSHING. He has a green aura.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 29, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

chas -

I bow to your brilliance...

Posted by: edvar | March 29, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

I have apprehensions about using the #1 pick on a D superstar just because of Blache's style. He's such a system guy that I doubt he would take the leash of a monster and give him the freedom to wreak havoc.

Also, I look at the great ride we've gotten from Samuels and Jansen. We haven't picked up anybody on the FA market in the past 15 years that has been able to give us 10-plus dominant years like those two. If we could make that happen in this draft...WOW!

Posted by: edvar | March 30, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

likewise dude, you're like Stephen Hawking but smarter.

of course the lions, who need lots of talent, could just do the same thing w/ their #20 and #33. and I really don't know if a #13 could fetch two 1R picks.

[and I meant to say Max Unger]

Posted by: chasgiffen | March 30, 2009 12:08 AM | Report abuse

I think we would sweeten the deal with our 5th rounder and maybe get their first at #20 and a high 2nd rounder.

That would still be cool with me. But I want Mack if I can get him.

Posted by: edvar | March 30, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Comparing the pre-Vinnie era to the current situation seems pointless.
About all I can say is that, particularly after listening to the interview he had with Doc Walker last Friday, I can at least claim I understand what they were thinking with the choices they made over the last year or so.
I'm at peace with the fiesta trio - don't know if it'll work out, but I understand the logic of choosing (what other people at the time called) five-star studs in the second round, even when you have other positions with greater needs.
And I think I have a lot more clarity about Rinehart -- you could look at him as a victim of being on a team with a dedicated long snapper -- the other justaguys that suited up on Sundays could play multiple positions, so they got the nod. Again, doesn't make Rinehart the right pick, but does give you a glimpse of what they were thinking.

Posted by: daggar | March 30, 2009 12:41 AM | Report abuse

all of this linebacker speculation is a smoke screen,they are taking A. Smith with their first pick,barring a trade down.Andre Smith molded himself after Samuels at Bama making him the perfect mentor.

Posted by: mark65 | March 30, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

two linebackers perhaps available in the 3rd are Mckenzie out of South Florida and Sidbury out of Richmond both unlimited upside.

Posted by: mark65 | March 30, 2009 1:06 AM | Report abuse

Saw this writeup of Texas Pro day. This absoutely GUARANTEES Derrick's little brother will be picked by the Redskins...

"OG Cedric Dockery (6-3, 314) completed the vertical jump (28 inches), broad jump (8-foot, 4-inches) and short shuttle (4.97). However, he pulled a hamstring during his 40 attempt (5.40 seconds) and missed the rest of his workout."

Posted by: TheCork | March 30, 2009 2:49 AM | Report abuse

From ESPN.COM

en of Iowa City writes: What do you think about the Packers taking Andre Smith at the 9th spot? They desperately need an OT, and Smith was a monster 3 straight years at Alabama. I'm willing to forgive his combine mishap. Is Ted Thompson? In my opinion, the Packers have to take him, do you agree?

Kevin Seifert: I think that's going to be one of the NFC North's questions as we head down the home stretch before the draft. The Packers' short- and long-term needs at tackle have been well-documented, with Chad Clifton seemingly nearing the end of his career and Mark Tauscher's left knee a question mark. I'm sure Thompson would like to add a big-time pass-rusher for the 3-4 defense, but everyone agrees Smith is immensely talented. If all things were equal, he'd be off the board by No. 9. I know there are concerns about his departure from the combine, but to me the biggest concern is that he was still in pretty average shape for his pro day. The Packers have a really, really difficult decision to make here.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 30, 2009 6:59 AM | Report abuse

'...smoke screen,they are taking A. Smith...'

I say, "Expect the unexpected."

It's been us bloggas who've chanted, "..tackle, tackle, 'backer, 'backer,...," even though we all know we follow a team whose front office acquires talent as if, well, it's hiding behind a screen smoking something.

The team doesn't burn high picks on need players. If they did, Sam Baker would be a redskin and Fred Davis would not have been drafted last year.

From the way the skins operate, the draft guessing is just that. They should draft: slb, ot, c/g, cb, wlb--let's hope that happens.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 30, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

'...Could Jason Taylor Return To Dolphins?...'


He'll be a Patriot before the June practices.

I see him--and Shawn Springs--being willing to practice as much and where ever they ask him to as he'll show Brady/Belichek & Company respect he couldn't muster for the Wizards of Redskins Park.

The New England Patriots are becoming the elephant graveyard for guys hoping to get one last shot a getting a ring.

Can you blame them, though?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 30, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse


FROM THE BEAST BLOG ON ESPN:

Our friends at "SportsCenter" came up with an interesting draft angle this afternoon that I wanted to share with you guys. What would happen if the Detroit Lions passed on Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford with the No. 1 pick?

In Todd McShay's mind, that would vault Baylor's Jason Smith to the No. 1 spot and Stafford would end up with the Seahawks at No. 4. It would also have a ripple effect on the rest of the first round. And that's why Scouts Inc. went ahead and picked up where McShay left off. You have to be an ESPN.com Insider to find out who ended up going to the Redskins, Eagles, Giants and Cowboys, but I'm loaning you my password for one afternoon only. Here's how it shook out for the Beast:

13. Redskins -- Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
21. Eagles -- Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
28. Eagles -- Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
29. Giants -- Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
45. Giants -- Sean Smith, CB, Utah
51. Cowboys -- Patrick Chung, S, Oregon
53. Eagles -- Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
60. Giants -- Paul Kruger, DE, Utah

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Robert Ayers!! WTF!!! Yoder I they are wrong.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 30, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Name: Robert Ayers
College: Tennessee Number: 91
Height: 6-3 Weight: 272
Position: DE Pos2: DT/OLB
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2009
40 Time: 4.77 40 Low: 4.68 40 High: 4.92
Projected Round: 2 Stock: High: 8-15 Low: Mid 2
Rated number 6 out of 197 DE's 41 / 2556 TOTAL

Combine Results Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6031
Weight: 272
40 Yrd Dash: 4.77
20 Yrd Dash: 2.78
10 Yrd Dash: 1.66 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 18
Vertical Jump: 29 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'06"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.51
3-Cone Drill: 7.58

I don't see it he is projected as a 2nd round pick, there will be better DE's available at 13.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 30, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Ice,

I hope so, if they have to stay at 13 it had better be a value pick. I'm weary of Cushing though, and he seems to be the guy that will be there waiting for the Skins.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

No way ayers goes at 13, he's a late first round guy. I can't see that happening.

I can't see Oher going at 21 either, WAY too last in the first for him.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 30, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

wait, are you weary of Cushing because of his NFLN 'path to the draft' commercials, or leery of Cushing because when USC players stop getting cheerleaders for good plays, their performance drops off considerably?

Posted by: daggar | March 30, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I agree with you B. I don't see those two things going down.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 30, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

I mean, if Oher is there at 13, then doesn't it make sense to take him, versus REACH for a DE??

The first Dallas/Wash game of last year was on NFL Network last night. Its so frustrating to see how the year ended, when it started so promisingly. Both the offense and the defense played so well in that game......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 30, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

My prediction is that the Skins FO pulls a Wimpy (from Popeye) and gladly offers next year's first for a second today ...

Posted by: dcsween | March 28, 2009 8:25

I have been pushing this idea for about two months now, ever since John Keim wrote it. Now with dcsween -- a seer without peer (no, they don't rhyme) -- and Wimpy behind it, it will gain traction.

It makes so much sense. They have three needs: RT, OLB, and DE, and they can't fill them without a second round pick. And the "trade down" stuff that we all read is not a strategy or even a plan but a pixie-dust dream.

As far as the order in which they fill the needs -- it all depends on how the draft breaks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 30, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Mel Kiper's Big Board

1. Aaron Curry Sr. LB Wake Forest
2. Michael Crabtree So. WR Texas Tech
3. Matthew Stafford Jr. QB Georgia
4. Jason Smith Sr. OT Baylor
5. Mark Sanchez Jr. QB USC
6. B.J. Raji Sr. DT Boston College
7. Brian Orakpo Sr. DE Texas
8. Aaron Maybin So. DE Penn St.
9. Eugene Monroe Sr. OT Virginia
10. Jeremy Maclin So. WR Missouri
11. Brandon Pettigrew Sr. TE Oklahoma St.
12. Percy Harvin Jr. WR Florida
13. Knowshown Moreno So. RB Georgia
14. Andre Smith Jr. OT Alabama
15. Tyson Jackson Sr. DE LSU
16. Malcolm Jenkins Sr. CB Ohio State
17. Robert Ayers Sr. DE Tennessee

You have to figure the top 10 guys will be drafted somewhere in the top 10. I see Andre Smith sneaking in there and replacing Maclin or Maybin. So going by simply value alone, Moe's prediction of Percy Harvin is not farfetched (percieved depth at the position should negate this though). It's interesting how both Scouts and Mel have Everette Brown rated lower and Ayers. I've seen many mocks where Brown is a top 10 pick. I don't know if he had a disappointing pro-day or not.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

You don't trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd ever. If they could get two 2nds or 2nd and 3rd maybe.

They have to realize you are not going to be able to fill all your holes this year, they will have to let some young guys step up.

trading down in not a pipe dream it will be tough to find a partner, but not impossible.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 30, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

One thing Vinny has stressed every time he speaks about the draft pick(s) is that they watch a lot of tape.....says they base their decison on tape...not on the combine.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 30, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

"It makes so much sense."

Doesn't make sense to me at all. Trading next year's 1st for the 2nd this year is already a downgrade. What happens if the line breaks down again and JC has a disappointing year? If the Skins decided to part ways, they won't have a 1st round pick to address yet another gaping hole. You can't sacrifice the future because of stupid mistakes you made in the past (trade for JT). They have to bite the bullet this year and save their picks for the plethora of talent coming out next year.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

This reminds me of having dialup access with an old modem.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 30, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

13. Knowshown Moreno So. RB Georgia
14. Andre Smith Jr. OT Alabama
15. Tyson Jackson Sr. DE LSU
16. Malcolm Jenkins Sr. CB Ohio State
17. Robert Ayers Sr. DE Tennessee

You have to figure the top 10 guys will be drafted somewhere in the top 10. I see Andre Smith sneaking in there and replacing Maclin or Maybin. So going by simply value alone, Moe's prediction of Percy Harvin is not farfetched (percieved depth at the position should negate this though). It's interesting how both Scouts and Mel have Everette Brown rated lower and Ayers. I've seen many mocks where Brown is a top 10 pick. I don't know if he had a disappointing pro-day or not.
Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who

This would be GREAT. We could take OT, DE, or CB. Seems like the Feagles or Giants might be interested in Moreno

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 30, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

mark:

Well SIDBURY has upside potential. 11" hands, yard long arms, 6'4" 265. 23 years of age. 4.47 speed. His skills are finally catching up with his body which has stopped its growth at last. And you can be certain that he will give all his considerable football talents to whomever takes him in this draft. But he played RDE at RICHMOND not OLB.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 30, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

You don't trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd ever. If they could get two 2nds or 2nd and 3rd maybe.

They have to realize you are not going to be able to fill all your holes this year, they will have to let some young guys step up.

trading down in not a pipe dream it will be tough to find a partner, but not impossible.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 30, 2009 8:56 AM

No, this is exactly how "fair value" is figured in the NFL. A first next year is worth a second this year. A second next year is worth a third this year.

As for finding a trade partner, yes it can happen, but don't plan on it as your draft strategy. I might find a $20 bill on the street this morning, but I still need to take cash with me to buy my lunch.

'Skins tried to trade out of the pick that they took Landry with but couldn't do it, and that was with Adrian Peterson on the board. Who will be on the board at 13 this year that will excite other GM's?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 30, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

If Jason Taylor goes back to Miami, I think the Redskins should file conspiracy, colusion, and rackeetering charges against Bill Parcells.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

What happens if the line breaks down again and JC has a disappointing year? If the Skins decided to part ways, they won't have a 1st round pick to address yet another gaping hole. You can't sacrifice the future because of stupid mistakes you made in the past (trade for JT). They have to bite the bullet this year and save their picks for the plethora of talent coming out next year.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 8:56 AM

How did they get a first round pick to take Campbell? They traded picks from the present draft plus their first rounder from the next draft.

Look, this franchise has a long history of "sacrificing the future for stupid mistakes in the past." Why do you think this year is different?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 30, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I really like Robert Ayers. He's had good games against both Andre Smith and Michael Oher/ He has the potential to play DE or OLD because of his athleticism. I'd have no issues with the skins picking him at #13.

Posted by: TWISI | March 30, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

"Look, this franchise has a long history of "sacrificing the future for stupid mistakes in the past." Why do you think this year is different?"

Wait, are you advocating this move or just predicting it will happen? I never said it won't happen, only that I'm strongly against it. Their long history of neglecting draft picks has landed them nothing but mediocre seasons. Unfortunate circumstances led to the Jason Taylor trade, which in hindsight was a terrible trade. You have to cut your losses and tip your hat to Parcells. Don't compound the issue by giving away what should be a guaranteed starter in 2 years for a Vinny drafted 2nd rounder who may or may not pan out.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 30, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

"I might find a $20 bill on the street this morning, but I still need to take cash with me to buy my lunch."

But the Skins already have their money. They can eat just fine with what they brought with them. Sure, it'd be great to be gifted something else, but the Skins don't "need" to find a way to make extra out of what they already have.

If Phillip Daniels re-signs (which according to the Times, seems likely) only one of those "need" spots becomes absolutely necessary to fill immediately. There would be no dire situation that would force the Redskins to sacrifice future picks for current ones, in order to ensure high selections are used on immediate needs. Only times these trades happen with the Skins is if they target a certain player pre-draft as someone they covet, and that player ends up falling. Who knows if they have someone in mind like this.

Posted by: psps23 | March 30, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Can we please o please get a new post

Posted by: alex35332 | March 30, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

hello???? is this thing on......??

testing....1...2....testing........

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 30, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

If Phillip Daniels re-signs (which according to the Times, seems likely) only one of those "need" spots becomes absolutely necessary to fill immediately.

Which one? There are substantial numbers Up Here that think OL, others SLB... I can't keep track of who claims what, and I'm too busy accumulating the list of all the "guaranteed locks" that I'll have to "pat people on the back for" to start another list.

Posted by: daggar | March 30, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

It's a blogger's protest for a new post to begin bashing each other again anew....

You missed the last union meeting....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"no Piece, no justice. No justice, no peace!"

Posted by: daggar | March 30, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

When we get a new post, we'll do a tally to see who thinks we should draft T, DE, or SLB with #13.

I'm getting early to put my hat in for SLB. We got Stop Gaps in the other positions for the year.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

If Jason Taylor goes back to Miami, I think the Redskins should file conspiracy, colusion, and rackeetering charges against Bill Parcells.......
Posted by: 4thFloor
----------------------------------------

Yes, or try to hire someone just like him. Right?

Posted by: isnadd | March 30, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

That would be a dream. I live in Reality World where our owner is Daniel Snyder.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 30, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator:
I might find a $20 bill on the street this morning, but I still need to take cash with me to buy my lunch.
------------------------

Talent, most restaurants these days take credit cards or ATM cards.

Posted by: isnadd | March 30, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Beep, beep.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 30, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

talentevaluator: "A first next year is worth a second this year. A second next year is worth a third this year."

Or it used to be, back in the Skins' glory days. Now it seems more complicated. Some potential trade partners will overcharge you if they sense your need for quality over quantity. The higher their second rounder, the more likely this becomes.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 30, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

That's the other thing that occurred to me: teams are using the late rounds of the draft to fill holes in their depth chart. That limits the developmental curve such players get -- they need to be able to step in when a starter gets injured. Also inflates, at least partly, the value of late round picks. Even if they don't ultimately succeed in the NFL, you at least get a couple years out of them, at a reasonable price (as opposed to a FA).

Posted by: Samson151 | March 30, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

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