Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: RedskinsInsider and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Redskins now must replace irreplaceable Bugel

If you had taken a poll Jan. 4, the day after the Redskins' season ended, about what might be the least surprising development over the following couple of weeks - Mike Shanahan being named the new head coach or Joe Bugel retiring as the offensive line coach - it might have been a dead heat. Shanahan's installation seemed to be months in the making, and his deal to coach the team was complete less than 48 hours after Jim Zorn was fired.

Bugel, too, had been preparing for this moment, as had so many other people in the organization. A few times this year, I wanted to sit down with the 69-year-old who spent 32 seasons in the NFL, 15 with the Redskins, and discuss all he had witnessed. He agreed to do something about midway through the season, but we both got distracted - Vinny Cerrato left, Bruce Allen came in, the coaching staff was under strain, etc. - and so we put it off.

When I went to talk to him before the final game of the season, he politely declined. The implication was clear: He knew what he was going to do, but he didn't want that to distract from what followed, a meaningless game at San Diego that would be Jim Zorn's last as head coach, and Joe Bugel's last in the NFL.

Bugel stayed with the Redskins for two seasons after Joe Gibbs - for whom he originally coached the "Hogs" offensive line in Washington - retired. When I talked to a lot of his offensive linemen, they seemed stunned that he might retire.

"I'd be surprised just because he's been doing it for so long," center Casey Rabach said.

"He got 10 more years in this game, man," said guard Randy Thomas, who joked he thought Bugel was only in his 50s.

There should be some old Bugel disciples on hand for the events today, as well as some current Redskins. And they'll pay tribute to a man who is as old-school as it gets - "That's definitely, definitely accurate," Rabach said - during a time when assistant coaches now have agents negotiating multi-year deals to do things Bugel started doing back in 1964, when he became the offensive coordinator and offensive line coach at his alma mater, Western Kentucky.

"He's a teacher, man," Thomas said.

For now, Bugel's retirement is the only press conference scheduled at Redskins Park today. New defensive coordinator Jim Haslett may be announced with the rest of the Redskins' staff, whenever that announcement might be. We know new offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan won't be in town until next week (his wife was due to give birth this week), and it appears some of the decisions on offense will be resolved then.

Whatever happens, the franchise will have to select a new offensive line coach to oversee a group that was among the most maligned - and injury-prone - on the 2009 Redskins. Rabach and left guard Derrick Dockery played all 16 games, but the other three positions were fluid at best.

And some of the most logical candidates to take Bugel's place aren't available. Alex Gibbs, a longtime Shanahan assistant in Denver, has agreed to coach the offensive line in Seattle under new Seahawks coach Pete Carroll. Rick Dennison, another Shanahan assistant with the Broncos, on Tuesday accepted the position Kyle Shanahan vacated to come to Washington - that of offensive coordinator with the Houston Texans, where former Shanahan assistant Gary Kubiak is the head coach.

So while you listen to the praise sent Bugel's way today - the press conference is at noon, and we'll have some remarks for you in the early afternoon - keep in mind that the more pressing matter is: Who takes Bugel's place?

By Barry Svrluga  |  January 13, 2010; 10:55 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Bugel to announce retirement
Next: Bugel's goodbye comes from the heart

Comments

Bummer, he truly is going out doing the best work he had ever done, what a tough year for him.

Posted by: skinball77 | January 13, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Time to give Ray Brown a call.

Posted by: CapsXXVI | January 13, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm betting that Buges comes out of retirement for Gibbs 3.0.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I gotta think in a 3-4 you're gonna see 92 as a DE... with Jarmon/Alexander on the other side... they'd have to go and find a true NT...

But this does get SacPo as a full time rush backer tracking everything down from the blindside, playing off of Paynesworths fata$$.

Posted by: bschaef12 | January 13, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I think that it would be great to see a few times from the 3-4 formation, again, Big Al is 350, and it he could/would play NT thats the ideal spot for him, at DE he would be the fattest DE ever in a 3-4 scheme.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm betting that Buges comes out of retirement for Gibbs 3.0.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 11:07 AM

That's after he coaches the phoenix Cardanals and LA Raiders...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 13, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

BTW Ray Brown is a brilliant call for new line coach good thinking XXVI

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah - I knew I had somethin' to say RE 3/4. Someone commented that a smallish middle LB would have problems...

... may I mention Zach Thomas? He did ok in the 3/4. More than size you need good lateral movement and attention to detail. Fletch can do that.. now, will he hold up? 'nuther story...

So Long, Buges. Thanks for the mammeries. man boobs... funny.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

BTW Ray Brown is a brilliant call for new line coach good thinking XXVI

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:13 AM

Does he coach the zone blocking schemes that Shanahan uses? Let's get Schlereth.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Freddie, playing Fletch and Rocky at ILB would leave us completely vulnerable to the rush up the middle. And if you thought Haynesworth hated the scheme this year, just wait until he's nothing more than a $100 million decoy in a 3-4 at NT.

Draft some LBs that could play ILB and a NT, THEN make the switch. Until then, stay with the 4-3 or just have a couple 3-4 packages.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse
Brownie, why do you say we would be vulnerable with Fletch and Rocky. Dallas ILB's..James 6'2" 247#, Brookings...6'2" 241. Fletch 5'10'' 245#, Rocky 6'2" 238#. And with either Haynie 350# or Montgomery 330# at DT, they could hold their own in the middle.

Would Haynie be upset about 3-4? He's getting doubled in the 4-3 anyway. If we can be more aggressive with twists and blitzes, and gain more success, he may be OK with it.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Buges is one of a kind. I was hoping he would be asked and would accept to stay on.
All the best to Joe Bugel. One of the last True Redskins.

Posted by: ridgely1 | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Anyone is welcomed to complete this thought..

For the last 2 years, Vinny, gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

One of the last True Redskins.

Posted by: ridgely1


DING!

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I don't know about LFB being too small. He really pounded Brandon Jacobs in the first game this year. He may be small on a stat sheet but he's much bigger on the field.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 13, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

(grammar correction)

Anyone is welcomed to complete this thought..

For the last 2 years, Vinny, who gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Find a All-Pro and/or Hall of Fame lineman who can teach technique ... start (and stop) there. New guy for offensive line coach.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I wish they'd keep him -if he'd like to stay - at least as a consultant working with Shanahan. Two professionals. Thanks Buges...

Posted by: AsstGM | January 13, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

If we decide to transition to a 3-4 I think we're pretty set in terms of LBs. Slide Rocky inside with Fletcher backed up by Blades, Gatewood, and Glenn. At rush ends we have Carter, Wilson, Rob Jackson, Orackpo and would probably need to add one guy here but finding a late round tweener isn't that hard. IMO we'd probably let Daniels, Wynn, and Monte go. Alexander, Gholson, and Albert will stay and we'd have to go find a NT and a couple more 3-4 ends. Some options that are all UFAs:

Johny Jolly NT
Richard Seymour DE
Fred Robbins DT (NT 326lbs)
Gabe Watson DT (NT 328lbs)
Vince Wilfork NT (unlikely he hits the market but yah never know)

IMHO we're not far away from running this system. Regardless of which system we run we need a FS like a fat kid needs cake and we could use a couple of corners as well as oline, rb, and qb. Needless to say, its going to be a busy next couple months.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

For the last 2 years, Vinny, gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

defacate.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

after he does a remake of Cocoon.
========================================


I'm betting that Buges comes out of retirement for Gibbs 3.0.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 11:07 AM

That's after he coaches the phoenix Cardanals and LA Raiders...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 13, 2010 11:12 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Buges is one of my fave people ever involved with the NFL.

Enjoy retirement Bugel, your service has been amazing and your integrity top notch.

In his profession the men who played for you and their comments are the highest compliment and in that you are indeed rich.

HAIL BUGEL!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 13, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

this is from ESPN insider:

Position switch for Orakpo?
8:33AM ET
Brian Orakpo | Redskins
Top Email

50 tackles, 11.0 sacks and a trip to the Pro Bowl? Yeah, Brian Orakpo had a pretty good rookie season for the Washington Redskins. But things could get even better.

As NFC East blogger Matt Mosley wrote in the wee hours of Tuesday night, new defensive coordinator Jim Haslett could be making a switch to a 3-4 defensive scheme. That means Orakpo will be taken off his spot on the defensive line and adopt the pass-rushing OLB role that has brought great fortune and acclaim to players like Terrell Suggs and DeMarcus Ware, and was the spot from which Elvis Dumervil became this season's breakout star.

Matt Mosley

Expect changes on D this season

"Haslett, a former NFL linebacker, has an outstanding reputation as a defensive coordinator in the league and you can guarantee that he'll field a more aggressive unit than Greg Blache featured the past two seasons. Redskins fans clung to stats that showed they were a top-10 defense on Blache's watch, but this unit didn't cause enough turnovers and never really took over games."

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Actually, scratch my last thought ... Chris Samuels is still under contract ... since he's getting paid anyway, have him fill out the contract teaching technique as the offensive line coach (or, at least, assistant offensive line coach, like Ray Brown's title in Buffalo).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

One of the last True Redskins.

Posted by: ridgely1 | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

What is a "True Redskin"?

Isn't anyone on the Redskin payroll a True Redskin?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 13, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

ridgely1 ftw

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM


Stand in front of the door and think: This stupid son of a b*tch was in this office for five years.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

ILB's in a 3-4, its not a size issue as someone here said, you need good lateral movement, but also you need to be able to dart arround from gap x to gap z as quick as you can go to gap y.

Having the right guys at LB is the only issue I really see in having a 3-4 package next year to complement the 4-3.

Haynsworth problem as I thought I understood it is that he does not like being told in a regimented way what to do he wants to freelance. He considers himself a pass rushing DT first, as a result he opens holes for the blitz. in a 3-4 at NT, his job would not be to pass rush but to open gaps and run stop.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

This also from the Insider, I hope to god this isn't true:

London calling other teams?
8:02AM ET
London Fletcher | Redskins
Top Email

With Jim Haslett heading to the Washington Redskins to take over as defensive coordinator -- according to this report -- some changes are on the way: scheme-wise, attitude-wise and personnel-wise, according to NFC East blogger Matt Mosley.

One of the more interesting debates this offseason could be the fate of MLB London Fletcher. Mosley writes, "it will be tough for a smaller player such as London Fletcher to function in a 3-4 scheme because he'll have to fight off 330-pound guards on a regular basis." Fletcher will turn 35 this May, but given the fact that he was second in the NFL in tackles this past season, we'd expect him to find a new home without too much trouble.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Brownie, why do you say we would be vulnerable with Fletch and Rocky. Dallas ILB's..James 6'2" 247#, Brookings...6'2" 241. Fletch 5'10'' 245#, Rocky 6'2" 238#. And with either Haynie 350# or Montgomery 330# at DT, they could hold their own in the middle.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM


Because Fletch and Rocky's games are predicated on roaming, not shedding blockers at the point of attack. There's a big difference between shedding FBs and TEs and shedding Gs and Ts. You may be able to get away with it for a few snaps, but not for the course of a full game.

Just my opinion.

I see the value in this team moving to a 3-4, I just don't wanna see it until they have the proper personnel. Folks are posting a starting lineup for a 3-4, but where are the backups? This team (and not many overall in this league) won't go a whole season without losing someone to injury, so you've got to have depth at each of those spots and even though you could put together a half-way decent starting 11, you've got nothing behind those guys.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Wow! Mosely is saying expect the 3-4? Makes sense that Orakpo could be the Suggs/Ware guy ... but we'd still need fireplug at NT ... figure that Albert would slide over to the end (like he did lots of times when they did that Orakpo/Hayneworth stunt ... where Albert was pulling anyway).

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

This is from the Giants blog, today...
===================================


Re: Sources: Skins hire Haslett
Reply Quote
you guys (and gals) notice how in the past the Giants and skins would appear to "swap" players?

Armstead, pierce, wynn, corny griffin and others come to mind.

greg blache got let go when zorn got the heave-ho.....greg blache has sick 43 defenses and the skins in spite of their record had one of the best Defenses around.

why not? he'll have a little something extra in payback for snyder and DC


post edit:

But the thing about Coughlin is, if he gets the axe next year so will the "newly hired" DC and that may be why no one is kicking down the door to join the Giants' coaching staff.

http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/1644628.aspx

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Johny Jolly NT
Richard Seymour DE
Fred Robbins DT (NT 326lbs)
Gabe Watson DT (NT 328lbs)
Vince Wilfork NT (unlikely he hits the market but yah never know)

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:21 AM

Don't forget Casey Hampton. I think the Skins will draft a NT as well.

Terrance Cody
Dan Williams
Lamar Houston

come to mind. Also I would think the Skins will make a run at Dansby to play one of the ILB spots, keeping Roc Mac on the outside.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I am not sold on the Haynsworth at DE thing more than a few plays a game. He it too fat for the spot.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

... ask, "So what did your playoff roster and racquetball racquet get for you this year, bug eyes?"

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for all you've done for the Redskins, Buges. You were the greatest O-line coach in the history of the game and should be in Canton one day.

You will be missed.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 13, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Sween -

AMntgomery is the guy you seek...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 13, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Would hope Bugel would stay true to form.. and say it and not just "think" it. He got so screwed by Vinny, who expected him to "coach up" cheap acquisitions while the bulk of the budget went to overpriced, merchandise selling, free agents.
===========================================


Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________


Stand in front of the door and think: This stupid son of a b*tch was in this office for five years.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 11:25 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

FYI Wise is doing a great thing on the Hogs right now. Interview with bostic, just ripped the current line for how much money they make and how poor they play.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:29 AM

Look for Jerry Grey as defensive coordinator for the Giants. Final answer.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

come to mind. Also I would think the Skins will make a run at Dansby to play one of the ILB spots, keeping Roc Mac on the outside.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 11:30 AM


Dude, I'm telling you...play Rocky at OLB in a 3-4 and he'll get eaten alive. Dude belongs in a Tampa 2-style defense, playing in space. Playing him at the line of scrimmage as a de-facto DE is an eggregious error in judgement.

'Rak, Carter, Jarmon and maybe Chris Wilson at OLB. Nothing else currently on the roster makes sense.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

AMntgomery is the guy you seek...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 13, 2010 11:33 AM

The guy's motor quits faster than Albert's. How do you figure? For an NT, you want a way heavy guy with a low center of gravity. Montgomery is tall.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Anyone is welcomed to complete this thought..

For the last 2 years, Vinny, who gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

"Fill" his shoes a la Gil!

Posted by: 1of9000 | January 13, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

easy on the 3-4 talk, mere speculation at best, wouldn't it make sense for them to make BETTER use of the players they have in running the 4-3, than to switch to a 3-4 and NOT have the players to make it work....I mean doesn't changing to a 3-4 seem like putting the scheme before the players....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 13, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Okay, The Fan is going to put together something big for Bugels retirement. Just decided to on the air. I get annoyed by the Fan a lot but that is something I can get behind.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Just what the Redskins need, a guy actually good at his job to depart. Of course it underscores their other needs: innovation - the kind you get from young coaches (see Gibbs 1981, Landry 1960, Jimmy Johnson 1989, Chuck Noll 1970, Bill Walsh 1978, today's Steelers).

Not 90 yeaar old bingo callers, 69 year old O line coaches, 65 year old recycled Hall of Famers with a 1985 playbook (Gibbs II), or old head coaches with 2 rings courtesy of Hall of Fame QB Elway.

Ask Florida State and Penn State why they're no longer near the top. Old coaches that used to do better - when they were younger. Getting beat by innovation learned from them.

Posted by: kedavis | January 13, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

sween you may be right, about Gray..

Of interest, also, is that Snyder overpays coaches.. and some of the zorn and blache assistants currently "on the streets" may make more money staying unemployed for 2010 then accepting a lower offer with a new team.
==================================

Look for Jerry Grey as defensive coordinator for the Giants. Final answer.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:36 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

For the last 2 years, Vinny, gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

defacate.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 11:22 AM

Perhaps Arenas can come out to Redskins Park and assist...

Posted by: TAS172226 | January 13, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Golsten is the closest the team has to having a NT build, and he'd have to add about 30 pounds ... maybe Lozo ... if he added about 45 pounds.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

And say hey to Allen since Vinny's office is now in some god forsaken **** hole of a hobo town under an overpass.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

you'd think.. But slap me "bug eyed" he is still at Redskins Park till the end of Feb.

=========================================
And say hey to Allen since Vinny's office is now in some god forsaken **** hole of a hobo town under an overpass.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:45 AM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I am not sold on the Haynsworth at DE thing more than a few plays a game. He it too fat for the spot.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:31 AM


Actually, believe it or not, his game is better suited to playing DE than NT in a 3-4. More chance to rush the passer from that spot.

Here's the way I see the personnel breakdown from a 3-4/4-3 comparison:

4-3 DE = 3-4 OLB
4-3 DT = 3-4 DE
Bigger 4-3 OLBs = 3-4 ILB


The only thing that doesn't really translate is the smaller OLBs in a 4-3 (like Rocky) and the runty MLBs (like Fletch). Moving a guy like our old friend Marcus Washington to ILB might have worked. Plus huge space-hoggers like Casey Hampton are a hard get.

Regardless of whether Haynesworth fits the bill size-wise, it's his SKILL SET that would prevent him from play NT in a 3-4.

Once again, all in my opinion.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

SkinsneedaGM, don't be confused. That Jerrah Jones and The Owner (of the Skins) are major money bags doesn't mean that John Mara/Steve Tisch are cheap. NFC East is the money division.

Posted by: dcsween | January 13, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, Buges, for the great times with the Redskins. Your work with the team will always be remembered by Redskins faithful. Best wishes in your retirement...

Posted by: TAS172226 | January 13, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

And say hey to Allen since Vinny's office is now in some god forsaken **** hole of a hobo town under an overpass.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Not true, Vinny is still a "consultant" to the Danny and being paid his salary through the end of January.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

McNabb is odd man out?
11:44AM ET
Donovan McNabb | Eagles | Interested: Bills?, Redskins?, Vikings?, Browns?
Top Email
Possible McNabb destinations

* Depending on what Brett Favre does (we might not know until August, mind you), the Vikings might need a QB, given the Tarvaris-Rosenfels tandem as an alternative.
* Jason Campbell might be back in D.C., but if not, it's a similar situation to Buffalo: they need a veteran as a stopgap while they develop the future franchise QB.
* The Browns have two unstable QBs, and their new GM was in Philly for most of McNabb's career.

We've been pondering whether or not Saturday night's loss could be the beginning of the end for Donovan McNabb in Philly. For the record, of the fans who took part in voting on the Birds' Eye View blog, only 32.6 percent wanted McNabb to stay, compared to 33.9 percent for Michael Vick and 88.8 percent for Kevin Kolb. It's pretty obvious the fans have had it.

For his part, head coach Andy Reid seems adamant in his pro-Donovan stance. Asked if he thought McNabb would be the team's starter in 2010, he said, "Yeah, I do," per 950 ESPN Radio's Brian Seltzer.

One trade possibility -- if Reid is lying -- is the Buffalo Bills. As Bob Matthews of the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle writes, McNabb won't be the QB of the future for the Bills, but he could be a nice stopgap for a few seasons while they develop a younger replacement (possibly this year's No. 9 overall pick). It's wildly speculative, but it's that time of year. For some more hypotheticals, check the box to the right.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Brown,
We are all talking from opinion. Its what we do, I just don't think that at his size that Al could play DE more than a few downs a game (he gets tired too quick). He is 350 lbs (reported and I think he is really closer to 380). His ideal spot for his size is NT, and if he is game, then its perfect.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Not true, Vinny is still a "consultant" to the Danny and being paid his salary through the end of January.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I think thats just paying out the contract. I don't think he is there.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

forgive me for being late to the discussion, but been busy...is Haslett a 3-4 defense?

SOunds crazy, but who coaches the Alabama Offensive Line, that person has put out studs and ridiculous rushing attack.

Posted by: mhartz1 | January 13, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Haynesworth as a DE regardless of what defense they use.

At 350 pounds you're asking him to take an angle to get to the QB (which is harder for a man his size) instead of asking him to push straight upfield.

If the NT in a 3-4 is more likely to run blitz than pass blitz, does that mean he can't still get to the QB?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

my inside insider said February 26.. But, bottom line he's still there in his old office...arrghh..
If I was Buges, I'd stay on until one day after Vinny is seen driving away from Redskins Park for the last time. Just a mano mano kind of thang..
===================================

And say hey to Allen since Vinny's office is now in some god forsaken **** hole of a hobo town under an overpass.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Not true, Vinny is still a "consultant" to the Danny and being paid his salary through the end of January.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:49 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Dude, I'm telling you...play Rocky at OLB in a 3-4 and he'll get eaten alive. Dude belongs in a Tampa 2-style defense, playing in space. Playing him at the line of scrimmage as a de-facto DE is an eggregious error in judgement.

'Rak, Carter, Jarmon and maybe Chris Wilson at OLB. Nothing else currently on the roster makes sense.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:36 AM |

Rock is as big as Harrison in Pitt. He may need to add 5-10 pounds but he's plays tough enough to set the edge. The question I have with having 'Rak, Carter, Jarmon and maybe Chris Wilson man the OLB spots is their coverage responsibilities.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

If the NT in a 3-4 is more likely to run blitz than pass blitz, does that mean he can't still get to the QB?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

That's my point as well Red. As I understand it the NT is the one dline position in a 3-4 with freedom. Their job is to just push the pocket into the backfield whether that is running plays or passing plays.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Ask Florida State and Penn State why they're no longer near the top. Old coaches that used to do better - when they were younger. Getting beat by innovation learned from them.

Posted by: kedavis | January 13, 2010 11:43 AM


Wow. Get college FB out of the discussion, it's barely the same game as the pros.

Consider the last 5 SB winners:

2008: Mike Tomlin
2007: Tom Coughlin
2006: Tony Dungy
2005: Bill Cowher
2004: Bill Belichick

Tomlin is the only young, up-and-comer of the bunch.

And he won that one with a big assist from 71 year-old Dick LeBeau running the defense. Tom Moore is pretty damn good in Indy and he's about 70.

Age is nothing but a number. Truth is, a good staff should see a mix of young, hungry coaches and the older, experienced ones. Going to heavy one way or the other isn't ideal anyway.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

ZFJ,
I read it the exact opposite, that a NT has to be the most disciplined on the line because their first job is to bust the first hole on an inside run play and take up 2 blockers as much as they can.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

HONOR THIS MAN AND LET HIM GO IN PEACE!

But I can't wait to hear what he has to say once he's gone, about working with offensive linemen that he clearly knew were not cut of the right cloth to be as dominant as the hogs once were.

Posted by: keedrow | January 13, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Another reason to hate Philly fans, zjfr2. They have a guy who is probably the best QB that dog of a franchise has ever known, leads them to their most sustained success in that sh*tty team's history, and all they do is hate on the guy. I've told my neighbor (an Eagles fan) a hundred times during the Vinny regime that I would happily trade their FO, coach and QB for the clusterf*ck we've had here for the last 15 years. I hope they fire all of 'em so they can see just how good they've had it for the last 10 years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I'll wait to see what HAslett does before making all of the above changes assumed...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 13, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Bobby Bowden, was pretty active, but I don’t think that Joe Pa has actually coached a game in 3 or 4 years. Look up “figure-head” in the dictionary, and Joe-pa’s picture is there.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | January 13, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I think Joe Bugel stayed too long. This year, his best job? Maybe but that's just because he has been the weak link for a long, long time. Joe was too much "love" and "confidence" and not enough grit and results.

Posted by: hz9604 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

As one who falls in the pro Campbell camp, I would be a supporter of getting McNabb as a stopgap while grooming the QB of the future over having Jason in that role.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Russ Grimm....give him the title of Assistant Head Coach and Offensive Line Coach. We are way over due to get some of our own guys back in the organization!!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1 | January 13, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

As one who falls in the pro Campbell camp, I would be a supporter of getting McNabb as a stopgap while grooming the QB of the future over having Jason in that role.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd be all for that too as long as:

1) We get a draft pick for JC.
2) We don't spend a draft pick on McNabb.
3) We get a reliable backup.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 13, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Wow, how good is this goodbye statement and press conference by Buges!

Funny, moving, loyal--I could listen to him all day.

Posted by: farstriker | January 13, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I agree with jcrabbe1, bring back Grimm and call him Junior Head Hog!

Posted by: fearturtle44 | January 13, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Buges deserves to be in the Ring of Honor if not HOF consideration.

Listening to his retirement presser and he's a beauty.

Definiitely need to address the OL with the first 2 picks because there is no way he didn't get everything out of this collection of scrubs. This units best isn't NFL caliber.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 13, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

There are 3 Hoggs currently Coaching. Brown (not an OG hogg) Jacoby (coaching at the college level) and Grimm (soon to be HC of Buffalo current OC of AZ)

I would love any of them here coaching the line but again I will trust the new coach pick his guys.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Um, this be Redskins Insider. I thought this was the most /assuming place on the 'net.

Some of you bamas are no fun. Fine then, let the nothingness commence.

Geez, I guess some people never had an imagination as a kid. Probably was read the Wall St. Journal at 3 months at bedtime.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Vinny and Dan asked Buges to build an OLine to compete in the NFC East with walk-ons and casts-offs. His Budget was one tenth of the DLine.
The front office took advantage of a great coach and team player who never complained after the last 4 Drafts of almost zero OLine talent.
======================

I think Joe Bugel stayed too long. This year, his best job? Maybe but that's just because he has been the weak link for a long, long time. Joe was too much "love" and "confidence" and not enough grit and results.

Posted by: hz9604 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

As one who falls in the pro Campbell camp, I would be a supporter of getting McNabb as a stopgap while grooming the QB of the future over having Jason in that role.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd be all for that too as long as:

1) We get a draft pick for JC.
2) We don't spend a draft pick on McNabb.
3) We get a reliable backup.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 13, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I'd kill for McNabb. If Philly is dumb enough to let him go. He has at least 3 years of good football left in him. If we could get him for even a pick this year I'd be fine with it. I'd give as much as our 2nd this year for him. Re-sign Levi and Heyer, sign another tackle and a guard, sign a FS, sign 2 corners, draft Okung at 4, give our second for McNabb, go rb in the 4th, go all oline late. Next year worry about drafting that young QB for the future. IMO a second for McNabb (a top 10 QB in the NFL) is a steal. Philly isn't just going to let him go, it will take something to get him but IMO he's worth it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Fluid at best - think we need Dr. Kildare as OL coach

Posted by: ElYeah | January 13, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

hope that 980 puts the Buges retirement conference on podcast as I missed all of it

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Freddie, playing Fletch and Rocky at ILB would leave us completely vulnerable to the rush up the middle. And if you thought Haynesworth hated the scheme this year, just wait until he's nothing more than a $100 million decoy in a 3-4 at NT.

Draft some LBs that could play ILB and a NT, THEN make the switch. Until then, stay with the 4-3 or just have a couple 3-4 packages.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse
Brownie, why do you say we would be vulnerable with Fletch and Rocky. Dallas ILB's..James 6'2" 247#, Brookings...6'2" 241. Fletch 5'10'' 245#, Rocky 6'2" 238#. And with either Haynie 350# or Montgomery 330# at DT, they could hold their own in the middle.

Would Haynie be upset about 3-4? He's getting doubled in the 4-3 anyway. If we can be more aggressive with twists and blitzes, and gain more success, he may be OK with it.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 11:16 AM |

What if we get a nose tackle and use Hayney as a DE? Shoots the theory of Hayney being pissed huh?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 13, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

RE: the D line. It seems to me that motivating Haynesworth as much as possible is in our best interest, since then we might get him in better condition, he will be playing harder, and he will be playing to his strengths. Would I do this for a pedestrian lineman? No. But Big Al is by consensus, even among his critics, the most dominating D lineman in the game. Trying to force him into a system that doesn't fully utilize him is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If I were Hasslett, I would sit down with Haynesworth and come to a mutual agreement on a scheme that will make big Al happy and best utilize the Skins personel. In return, he should get Big Al's commitment to come into camp in the best condition of his career. No matter what the D scheme, a well conditioned, highly motivated big Al should be at its foundation.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 13, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

NYC talk radio is all abuzz about McNabb being gone from Philly as well, saying the drumbeat within the org for Kolb is too strong...

Take it for what its worth.

I LOVE grimm, and he will be a great HC, and is a great asst coach. But he is not a fit for Shanahan lead team.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 13, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Interesting Donovan stats in the 4th Qtr.. Would of expected higher.

Donovan McNabb
1st Qtr = 105.5
4th Qtr last 7 minutes = 76.1
========================================
As one who falls in the pro Campbell camp, I would be a supporter of getting McNabb as a stopgap while grooming the QB of the future over having Jason in that role.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 13, 2010 12:12 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

The skins should draft Suh :-D

Posted by: Mike4169 | January 13, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Actually, believe it or not, his game is better suited to playing DE than NT in a 3-Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:47 AM . More chance to rush the passer from that spot.
Posted by: brownwood26 | January 13, 2010 11:47 AM

Agreed. He is a perfect fit for the DE in 3-4, and if you think Albert complained about last year in Blache’s scheme he would quit on the team as a NT. The only guy we have that fits the profile for a NT is Monty, but you need an animal to play NT and well Monty ain’t much of an animal.

The best 3-4 NT in the draft played at Bama and his name is Terrance Cody.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 13, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 I don't know about McNabb for a second. I say that because I'd expect a 2nd rounder to be a contributing starter for at least his rookie contract (4-5 years) give or take, plus at least a contract extension (2-3). In essence you'd be getting half the production out of McNabb from what is expected out of a high draft pick if he has 3 years left in him.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I totally disagree on switching to a 3-4. The issue on this team is not the front 7, but the secondary and offense. They need to focus on that first, instead of spending more time and effort trying to go to a 3-4 (which I don't really think they'll try to do like everybody is assuming). Now if this defense was really crappy, I could understand undergoing such a major overhaul. But its not necessary, and you're not playing to the strength of your best D players: Fletch, Carter, Haynesworth..

Posted by: ga8085 | January 13, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

IMO we'd probably let Daniels, Wynn, and Monte go. Alexander, Gholson, and Albert will stay and we'd have to go find a NT and a couple more 3-4 ends. Some options that are all UFAs:

Johny Jolly NT
Richard Seymour DE
Fred Robbins DT (NT 326lbs)
Gabe Watson DT (NT 328lbs)
Vince Wilfork NT (unlikely he hits the market but yah never know)

IMHO we're not far away from running this system. Regardless of which system we run we need a FS like a fat kid needs cake and we could use a couple of corners as well as oline, rb, and qb. Needless to say, its going to be a busy next couple months.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

__________________


Add Shawn Merriman to your list as an outside LB to pair with Orakpo.

Posted by: dfbovey | January 13, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I'd kill for McNabb. If Philly is dumb enough to let him go. He has at least 3 years of good football left in him. If we could get him for even a pick this year I'd be fine with it. I'd give as much as our 2nd this year for him. Re-sign Levi and Heyer, sign another tackle and a guard, sign a FS, sign 2 corners, draft Okung at 4, give our second for McNabb, go rb in the 4th, go all oline late. Next year worry about drafting that young QB for the future. IMO a second for McNabb (a top 10 QB in the NFL) is a steal. Philly isn't just going to let him go, it will take something to get him but IMO he's worth it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Here's the problem I have with that scenario. Jones hasn't played a full seson since 2004. McNabb has played 16 games only once since 2004. That's why we would need a reliable backup. I would count on Jones and McNabb getting hurt and missing some games.

The other problem with McNabb is that he's old. By the time we are good enough to win a championship he's going to be on the brink of retirement. I think McNabb is good enough to get us into the playoffs but I don't think he could win a championship with this team in the next couple of years. That's why I would not spend a draft pick on him. I think the 2nd rounder would be much better used in this draft since so many of the juniors are coming out. If we didn't have to part with a pick then I'd take him in a heartbeat. Maybe we could ship an extra player or two to Philly for him instead?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 13, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Wonder what McNabb would look like on a power running team. Probably the 'Farve Effect' in that the QB can make the 'right' call at the line and chooses to do so, instead of letting the running game pound people into huddling puddles of 4th quarter goo.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 13, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

What about "Run Around Suh" if we're going 3-4?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

By the way, I am trademarking "Run Around Suh" right now.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Few have earned the respect Joe Bugel has earned. Would have hoped to see him go out on top, but we all know the man is as tough as they come and a winner.

All the best to Joe Bugel.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

RE: the D line. It seems to me that motivating Haynesworth as much as possible is in our best interest, since then we might get him in better condition, he will be playing harder, and he will be playing to his strengths. Would I do this for a pedestrian lineman? No. But Big Al is by consensus, even among his critics, the most dominating D lineman in the game. Trying to force him into a system that doesn't fully utilize him is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If I were Hasslett, I would sit down with Haynesworth and come to a mutual agreement on a scheme that will make big Al happy and best utilize the Skins personel. In return, he should get Big Al's commitment to come into camp in the best condition of his career. No matter what the D scheme, a well conditioned, highly motivated big Al should be at its foundation.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 13, 2010 12:25 PM
-------------------------------------------
You can't be serious. We just got rid of one of these touch me, hold me, hug me coaches and now you want Shanahan to do the coddling? No way! Look, these guys get paid a heck of a lot of money to do a job on the football field as they are instructed to by the coach. Haynesworth might be unhappy playing NT, or not being moved around, but it is not his call. It's a team. You do what is best for the team. The coach tells you what is best for the team and you go do it. The things Haynesworth should be worried about are the things within his control - of which, shedding a few pounds and getting in better shape would be at the top of the list.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 13, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

For the last 2 years, Vinny, gave Bugel Div 2 college talent (walk-ons and casts offs) and spent 90% of the budget on the Defense, is still sitting at his desk until Feb 26.

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

KICK HIM SQUARE IN THE NUTS!!!

Once for giving him BMW/Heyer and once for giving that ridiculous press conference where he said "youre talking about all the sacks and stuff?"

Thats right. Once in each sid of the coin purse. F u, Vinny. F u.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 13, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

What about "Run Around Suh" if we're going 3-4?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2010 12:34 PM

To play DE in the 3-4?

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 13, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else remember Spurrier making fun of Haslett for all the hours he works?

Posted by: Mike4169 | January 13, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the notice.. As Suh's agent I will oppose you during the PTO TM opposition period (or send him to your house..either one.. haha).
========================================
By the way, I am trademarking "Run Around Suh" right now.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 13, 2010 12:35 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if the iggles are re-thinkning that Mike Vick acquisition.

I also wonder if they'll search for a blocking tight end who can help J Peters out.

Finally, the iggles had to have the most disappointing season for any team inthe NFC East.

After the redskins, that is.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

coddle schmoddle. if you've got the talent, you work with it. You don't make it jump through hoops or waste it.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Umm..I'm pretty sure Vinnie no longer has an office. Unless he's secretely renting out space in the broom closet.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 13, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

At least give Ray Brown a look.

He (Brown) spent the last two seasons, as Buffalo's assistant offensive line coach.

Posted by: dashriprock | January 13, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Gints would have to be in line for that too... Eli looked average this year.
=======================================
moe wrote;

Finally, the iggles had to have the most disappointing season for any team inthe NFC East.

After the redskins, that is.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2010 12:40 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"Wonder what McNabb would look like on a power running team."

He'd kill.

A Reid re-shaped their offense to make it pass happy, and it was until teams attacked the offensive line.

The absence of a power running game didn't put a fear into anyone.

McNabb in DC would be interesting, but won't happen.

Not that it should.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Those shots Spurrier took at Haslett were also directed at the ghost of his predecessor Gibbs! He used to stay at the clubhouse too.

That's one way I knew that stinkin' Gator would fail.

You don't cement your place in the hearts of Skins fans by toppling their icon. How's THAT for mixin' metaphors?!?

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

no thanks on Merriman, who by the way has done ZIP since getting pinched for PED's....and McNabb, sure thing...for a second round pick...not thanks....if they cut him, and we can get something for JC then by all means, but no trading picks....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 13, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

On the 3-4 vs 4-3 discussion, I suspect Shanahan and Haslett won't go too far in making adjustments in 2010. The resources were poured into the defense in 2009, and the offense got nothing.

2010 is going to be about upgrading the offense. So while a switch to a 3-4 might occur at some point not too far down the road, I don't think its in 2010.

My guess, its a 4-3, at least until London Fletcher starts to slow down. When its time to replace him, that is the time to consider making the switch. Until then, we might see groundwork for it, but I'd be surprised if it happens right away.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 13, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I like how the Pats have 3 second round picks the same year all the juniors are coming out into the draft. We wonder why some teams stay good and other don't.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 13, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

"At least give Ray Brown a look."


This is today's best idea.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Umm..I'm pretty sure Vinnie no longer has an office. Unless he's secretely renting out space in the broom closet.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 13, 2010 12:42 PM

=================================
He's still there, in his office, as a consultant for another month or so.... Hopefully not consulting on the upcoming draft..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Vinny should be consulting on unrinal cakes.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 13, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

"When I went to talk to him before the final game of the season, he politely declined."


This happens to me a lot.

Especially when I'm out panhandling.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 13, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Merriman had 12.5 sacks the last year he was healthy.

His production fall off the past two seasons was due to his injury and recovery from injury, not due to loss of PEDs. IMO.

Posted by: dfbovey | January 13, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

He's still there, in his office, as a consultant for another month or so.... Hopefully not consulting on the upcoming draft..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | January 13, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

That's kind of scary. Kind of like a poltergeist.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 13, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

By the way, I am trademarking "Run Around Suh" right now.

Posted by: Rypien11

Run Around Suh™


What is the difference between ™ and ©

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Redskins now must replace irreplaceable Bugel

By Barry Svrluga | January 13, 2010; 10:55 AM ET

Bugel is not irreplaceable. The only guy out there who was irreplaceable was Vinny Cerrato. And, he's been replaced.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Vinny should be consulting on unrinal cakes.

He reported that "they don't taste very good".

Posted by: daggar | January 13, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26 wrote:
"Wow. Get college FB out of the discussion, it's barely the same game as the pros.

Consider the last 5 SB winners:

2008: Mike Tomlin
2007: Tom Coughlin
2006: Tony Dungy
2005: Bill Cowher
2004: Bill Belichick

Tomlin is the only young, up-and-comer of the bunch."
***************************************
I was previously talking about when they became the head coach, not when they won. That's why I used Tom Landy in 1960 as an example. He was very young and innovative then. By 1988, 28 years later, he was not. Neither was Gibbs II. Neither is Shanahan.

Dungy and Belecheck started as head coaches well be4 their current ages. Dungy got out. Bill in NE, is beginning to show what happens when innovation is past tense. Thus the prior reference to Bowden and Paterno.

Posted by: kedavis | January 13, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 I don't know about McNabb for a second. I say that because I'd expect a 2nd rounder to be a contributing starter for at least his rookie contract (4-5 years) give or take, plus at least a contract extension (2-3). In essence you'd be getting half the production out of McNabb from what is expected out of a high draft pick if he has 3 years left in him.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

While I generally agree with that thought on 2nd rounders I think the whole conversation Igets skewed when you start talking QB.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: frediefritz | January 13, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

dfb, so poTAYtoe, or poTAToe, either way, its been 2 years since he's been good....and thats what you want to go after....vinny..that you??

sorry, but hopefully, the days of going after injured, and has-been players is LONG GONE...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 13, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 I don't know about McNabb for a second. I say that because I'd expect a 2nd rounder to be a contributing starter for at least his rookie contract (4-5 years) give or take, plus at least a contract extension (2-3). In essence you'd be getting half the production out of McNabb from what is expected out of a high draft pick if he has 3 years left in him.

Posted by: TWISI | January 13, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

While I generally agree with that thought on 2nd rounders I think the whole conversation gets skewed when you start talking QB. IMO there's no QB in this draft or the next or the one after that is going to give a McNabb level of QB play for 3 years. Additionally, a 2nd round pick while certainly more of a sure thing than a late round pick there are no guarantees that pick will be a hit and you get a Pro Bowl level player. McNabb gives you a shot to both win now and build for the future. He knows he won't be playing forever, so you have no controversy when you draft a young QB next year. And PA, I said re-sign Levi, Heyer, and sign another tackle, plus draft oline late. We'd be hard pressed to get much better than that in terms of depth. Levi is a quality RT for a year or two and Heyer is quality young depth. He's not a full time starter but a spot start or two plus a signed vet and young guys. That's good enough for me. Commit to taking quality lineman in the first 3 rounds of the draft over the next 5 years. Take your future franchise QB next year, let him sit behind a Pro Bowl QB for two years, to me hard to get a more solid plan than that and all it costs you is a 2nd round pick that may or may not have been a good pick for knowing what you get in McNabb.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 13, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm betting that Buges comes out of retirement for Gibbs 3.0.

Posted by: League-Source | January 13, 2010 11:07 AM |

Gibbs 3.0? Hasn't this town learned yet?

Here is a little summary of his previous stints with the Skins:

Gibbs01 - He was a winner because of Bobby B. and the coaching staff, after Bobby B. left he had to make personnel decisions but the team crumbled and he skipped town without giving the slightest hint to his staff and coaches of what he was going to do (Gibbs-backstab-of-staff-and- coaches-01)

Gibbs02 - After a few years of hiding and his reputation kept intact by morons, he thinks that maybe he is as great as they make him be and he returns. Creates the most bizarre team of Redskin history, trades multiple picks for a QB no one else wanted - a proven failure in 5 years. He realizes he is way over his head and, once again, silent like a stealth plane he quits without giving the slightest hint to his staff and coaches of what he was going to do (Gibbs-backstab-of-staff-and- coaches-02).

Gibbs 3.0? Lets hope he does it with another team so that we can trade his beloved QB for some picks - no other moron would give us anything for Campbell.

Posted by: hock1 | January 13, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Vinny should be consulting on unrinal cakes.

He reported that "You mean the thingies you pee on and stuff?".

Posted by: daggar | January 13, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 13, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I was previously talking about when they became the head coach, not when they won. That's why I used Tom Landy in 1960 as an example. He was very young and innovative then. By 1988, 28 years later, he was not. Neither was Gibbs II. Neither is Shanahan.

Dungy and Belecheck started as head coaches well be4 their current ages. Dungy got out. Bill in NE, is beginning to show what happens when innovation is past tense. Thus the prior reference to Bowden and Paterno.

Posted by: kedavis

Can we at least wait and see what Mike Shanahan's offense will look like before we declare him not "innovative".

Belichick has a no talented defense except for Mayo, Wilfork, Bodden, and Merriweather, or maybe they just haven't played enough games together yet.

NE's offensive line is starting to age also.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 13, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

the skins are not going to be a full tine 3-4 defense... how many times has shanny ever run the 3-4... ZERO!!! he switched the broncos from a 3-4 to a 4-3 when he got there... how many times haslett RUN a 3-4... ZERO!!! cowher was running the defense in pittsburg when he has there... you can expect more blitzing and press coverage but no full time 3-4...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | January 13, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

You guys DO know defense is like Math...

If you are a Calculus teacher you are also pretty well qualified to teach any of the prerequisite courses as well [Mathematics, Algebra, Geometry Etc.].

Sure you may need a quick refresher to push out the cobwebs, but it's all still there.

You aren't doomed to a life of JUST teaching Calculus [not that there is anything wrong with teaching Calculus...lol].

Haslett has coached 3-4, 4-3, and even a pinch of a 4-6 variation.

I'd bet on a 4-3 base with MAYBE a 3-4 package.

Haslett's FAR too smart to try and force our TINY ends into service for a 3-4.

The cost of personnel overhaul required to go 3-4 [in $$$ and picks spent] would preclude upgrading the offense, and I don't think Coach Shanahan would lean that way.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | January 13, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

They pretty much HAVE everything they need up front to run a 4-3 given the rather silly approach to drafting for the DE the owner took. Logic dictates that Haynesworth is the perfect DE in a 3-4. Montgomery fits in the middle. Lots of possibilities for the other end. Even without Carter they can use Wilson at the other outside spot.

The problem: THEY STILL NEED shutdown corners. They probably could use someone as close to Sean Taylor at safety as can be found.

Meanwhile, OFFENSIVELY, they need to trade Cooley for picks or for potentially decent OL. The OL position coach will be critical as they are starting from scratch. The have a tight end and plenty of receivers. They can get a running back various ways. They can try to use Portoise again.

AND they still NEED a reliable KICKER. The Redskins provide an example of a team that got to the superbowl on the strength of their kicking game and kicker (Mark Moseley).


Posted by: periculum | January 13, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Take a big ole hairy, steaming dump that is teeming with corn and peanuts on Vinny's desk. After that, he should fill up several gallon ice cream containers with frozen diarrhea and leave them on $nyder's desk to melt.

Posted by: VeloStrummer | January 13, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

You do what is best for the team. The coach tells you what is best for the team and you go do it. The things Haynesworth should be worried about are the things within his control - of which, shedding a few pounds and getting in better shape would be at the top of the list.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 13, 2010 12:36 PM
Im not talking about coddling him, giving him time off practice, etc....I'm talking about unleashing the most disruptive D line force in the NFL. There is a difference between tailoring a system to best motivate and utlize your top talent to make your team better, and doing it just to appease or pad the stats of a star player. Sometimes doing what your star player wants and doing what is best for the team do coincide. I would have loved to see what our D could have done had L Arrington been given the freedom he was given in college. I would love to see what the Skins D line could be like if Big Al were allowed to play in a system like he did when he had his biggest seasons. And implementing a system that best utilizes your star players can't be worse than trying to force a system on a team that doesn't fit the personel. And, by the way, premium talent in any field usually aren't the type who bring their A game when they're told to shut up and do it the boss's way or else. They may do the job, but you wont get their best effort.May not fit into the guide to winning the Good Citizenship award, but it is just life. Maybe you forgot, Big Al was promised he'd be able to play like he did when he was at his best. I say the Skins should keep the promise. I for one don't want Big Al wasted sumo wrestling linemen on the line of scrimmage. I want him throwing O linemen into QBs and RBs.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 13, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I have seen mcnabb's entire career with the eagles he is now a streaky QB sometimes on other times off still does not throw many interceptions but he is 33yrs. He would benefit from a good running game and so would campbell who should be kept even if they draft a QB(hopefully 3rd round or later). reid will not trade mcnabb to a division team anyway. washington needs to draft down for extra 3-4 picks get younger.

Posted by: wathu19 | January 13, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I was introduced to the fine art of tackle football, at age 8 on a cemetery hillside in Munhall, PA. No helmets, no pads, and Joe Bugel among other older guys on the other side of the line. Oh, that hurt, every time we were fool enough to take them on.

Great work, Joe. It's been fun watching you hawg.

Posted by: ibfuddled | January 13, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Buges should , on his way out , stop by Vinny`s office and kick him right in the gonads and then ask him how it feels!

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | January 13, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Right On kenboy1! Amen to that! Go get em Big Al! BTW F-Dallas!!

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | January 13, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing how many coaches and personnel guys there are on this site. I'm laughing away as, based on readers' comments, I've found that we're definitely running a 3-4 defense even though Shanahan hasn't said it; getting rid of the second leading tackler in the league, London Fletcher; everyone's worried that we don't have a NT; Orakpo has become the next Ware; we've brought in Brandon Marshall and Donovan McNabb; Ray Brown and Russ Grimm are competing for our offensive line coaching position, though Russ Grimm might just be named Associate Coach #2 (since we already have Associate Coach #1)--never mind that neither one of them played using Shanahan's running or blocking schemes, and I doubt anyone here knows if Ray Brown can really coach. He's a nice guy, but...; and the Redskin Insider keeps trying to find some position for Sherman Smith and Jerry Gray even though Shanahan's hiring his own guys and hasn't said he's keeping any old coaches. Why would he? I hope no one is taking any of this too seriously. And I hope everyone is having fun.

Posted by: OintheSierras | January 13, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Buges should, on his way out, stop by Vinny's office and

__________________________________________
__________________________________________

Take a big ole hairy, steaming dump that is teeming with corn and peanuts on Vinny's desk. After that, he should fill up several gallon ice cream containers with frozen diarrhea and leave them on $nyder's desk to melt.

Posted by: VeloStrummer

--------------

Now THAT'S FUNNY! STILL LAUGHING! MY STOMACH HURTS!
Thanks, Velo...you made my day!

Posted by: LuvMySkinz | January 14, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company