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A Change in Postseason Postmortem

The Redskins are handling the immediate beginning of the offseason a little differently than they have in years past. Under Joe Gibbs, the Redskins' staff - coaches, scouts and executives - usually began two weeks of arduous meetings the day after the season ended. They would break down every play, exhaustively dissect the offense, defense and special teams, and assess personnel needs and possible moves.

Under the Vinny Cerrato/Jim Zorn regime, that has changed. The staff will meet today and tomorrow, then the coaches will break for about 10 days, returning next month for a week of meetings before heading to the Jan. 24 Senior Bowl. That will start draft and offseason prep work, with a litany of college all-star games leading to February's combine, and the start of free agency in March.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 29, 2008; 11:15 AM ET
 
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Comments

Once again....people stop playing Madden.
Wanna throw MORE money at the problem...and start two rookie OL's?

Vinny is that you posting on the boards now?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 29, 2008 10:51 AM

How is that Madden? We're not winning the Super Bowl next year, and we need to get younger - and that starts on the line. If we get 2nd round picks, they should be starters, if they are lineman.

And we need another WR - in case you haven't noticed - our WRs outside of Moss are garbage, and hes a small #2.

AND we need defense - theres nothing wrong with making ONE big FA signing if its an area of need - which D line is.

Draft is where we go cheap and start building our O line together.

Whats the problem?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I like this for the most part. Couple questions/concerns: starting a 36 yr old career DE, coming off catastrophic knee injury, at DT? Questionable.

Is Lance Moore a f/a? I love that kid but I'm torn on whether to pursue if so... not sure we have the cap room to pursue a Peppers and also get him...besides, we did spend an entire draft bascially on that position, so we have to give Kelly/Thomas/Davis a chance to produce next year.

Just say no to TJ - he's 31 next yr.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG

Notorious - you are right about Daniels, but you know hell still be here, and I think if he is playing, he could serve better at DT given his strength. I have no problem letting him go if we can find a replacement.

Lance Moore and Henderson are both FAs - Henderson is bigger, but Lance Moore is better. I would take either of them over TJ as they are younger, but TJ is a big body whos numbers are still going up every year. Maybe if the price is right...

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 29, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

This West Coast Laid Back Mentality is probably what will kill this team. If you want to win your front office has to give 110%..

Posted by: alex35332 | December 29, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Is there any reason to hope that Danny-boy will FINALLY realize that putting his brain and Vinny's brain together STILL does not equal great football?

Any chance that the Skins might hire a real, professional GM soon?

Posted by: AWWNats | December 29, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

so vinny and zorny are staying???????????????? mather facker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Here ya go Notorious:

So we are back to the "haters" arguement huh? Wow what reason could any of us have for negativity? Things are glorious in Redskins land!!!!!!!!

NOT LMG...even you admit Cerrato stinks...NFL is a top down gig, if you stink at the top, you will stink at the bottom.

I will take your odds. I dont want to root against the team, so not going to make the stakes larger than I am willing to happily lose. So big shot I will take your odds and $25. So I put up, can you now shut up with your polyanna mouth puking?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 29, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

greg, when horton and rocky mac can play a whole season we'll see...and who knows he might've just said hey greg (blache), it's the 7th round...you can use cronyism to select a player...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

CL,

They have won 10 games twice in the last 16 years I think your money is safe.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

lmg, with zorny and vinny at the helm i'm willing to bet my left nut that this team doen't make 10 wins next year. and you can have my right nut if you think they'll actually make the playoffs and win a game.

what do i get if you lose though?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

If he gets Pioli he is a very smart man.

COWHER OUT, PIOLI IN FOR CLEVELAND?
Posted by Mike Florio on December 29, 2008, 11:22 a.m. EST
Browns owner Randy Lerner — who met with the media Monday on the condition that there be no cameras or tape-recording devices present — said that he met with former Steelers coach Bill Cowher on Saturday night in New York, and that Cowher said he’s not interested in coaching the team.

Specifically, Cowher said he’s not interested coaching any team in 2009. (The Jets might have enough money to get Cowher to reconsider that.)

Lerner also said that, with Cowher out of the mix, the Browns will focus on hiring a G.M. Lerner said he has already sought permission to interview Patriots V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli, and that Lerner is receiving permission to speak with an unnamed NFL executive.

Per Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Lerner “appeared interested” when hearing that the Jets had fired head coach Eric Mangini.

But, again, since Lerner won’t allow cameras or microphones to be present when he talks to the media, it’s impossible to objectively assess his reaction.

As to Cowher, we’re not surprised by his reluctance to coach the Browns. He would automatically become Public Enemy No. 1 in Pittsburgh, ruining his 15-year legacy in his hometown.

We continue to believe that Cowher was using the Browns’ interest in his services to keep his name at the top of the list, regardless of whether he pulls the trigger and returns to coaching in 2009, 2010, or 2011.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Greg/VT - You don't understand that that only happened when the player in front of him went down?

And that he signed a very modest contract after such a 'great' run and din't test the market?

Betts resembles to me a more improved version of Trung Canidate......

(VT - I'm not much of a pulling stats guy, but if I was you would see clearly that Turner the Burner had better stats as a backup consistently year in and year out vs. Betts. Betts is just house cleaning that never got to after the Spurier debacle)

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I will take your odds. I dont want to root against the team, so not going to make the stakes larger than I am willing to happily lose. So big shot I will take your odds and $25. So I put up, can you now shut up with your polyanna mouth puking?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I don't know what that last phrase means but it made me laugh out loud. You're on. Email me at lmgaffney at hotmail.com if you please.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 29, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Not to back up things with facts or anything, but people keep mentioning Turner having done it, and Betts failing.

Turner was drafted in 2004, since that time he has the following stats

2956 yards rushing, 23 touchdowns, 17 receptions, 0 touchdowns receiving. I believe he started all 16 games this year.

Betts has the following in the same time frame:
2404 yards rushing, 8 touchdowns, 121 receptions, 3 touchdowns receiving, and 1 KR touchdown. Has NEVER started a 16 game season.

There you go.....from the WP site these stats came from....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 29, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

so vinny and zorny are staying???????????????? mather facker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

What would it take for Snyder to replace Vinny? 3 to 4 years of draft/FA busts? No playoff wins?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

lmg, with zorny and vinny at the helm i'm willing to bet my left nut that this team doen't make 10 wins next year. and you can have my right nut if you think they'll actually make the playoffs and win a game.

what do i get if you lose though?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

And I though that I had a gaming problem...

Um, let's leave family jewels out of the stakes eh? Perhaps $25? A case of beer? My cherished Andre Johnson rookie card? I'm talking OUR Andre Johnson, not THE Andre Johnson....

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm not much of a pulling stats guy, but if I was you would see clearly that Turner the Burner had better stats as a backup consistently year in and year out vs. Betts. Betts is just house cleaning that never got to after the Spurier debacle

"You're not much of a pulling stats guy" Because the stats clearly prove you wrong. You said that the role of a backup RB was to spell the #1 and provide similar, if not slightly less production.

I contest that this is exactly what Betts has done, and he even provides a wronkle in the passing game that CP does not. The stats clearly back me up, so I guess I am a "pulling stats kind of guy."

Because, I like, you know, facts to back up my assertions.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Turner as a backup

YEAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2004 SDG 14 20 104 5.2 30 0 4 0 0
2005 SDG 16 57 335 5.9 83 3 11 0 0
2006 SDG 13 80 502 6.3 73 2 24 0 0
2007 SDG 16 71 316 4.5 74 1 10 1 1

Betts as a backup

YEAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2002 WAS 11 65 307 4.7 27 1 13 1 1
2003 WAS 9 77 255 3.3 13 2 15 0 0
2004 WAS 16 90 371 4.1 27 1 19 0 0
2005 WAS 12 89 338 3.8 22 1 17 2 2
2006 WAS 16 245 1154 4.7 26 4 59 4 2
2007 WAS 16 93 335 3.6 20 1 16 1 1
2008 WAS 13 61 206 3.4 14 1 15 1 1

Here are the stats continue your argument.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"Standing bet for CL, dealer, psp- I'll lay you 2-1 odds that we win 10 games or more next year. Surely a mediocre team and incompetent coach wouldn't win 10 games in the NFL, regardless of strength of schedule.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG"

(1) Sorry, I don't bet against the team's I root for. Ever.

(2) That is where you are most certainly wrong. Mediocre teams and coaches win 10 games all the time (Mangenius and his Jets in his first year, Bill Callahan and his Raiders his first year, Wade Phillips and his Cowboys, Cincinnati Bengals in their one good year the last decade, Cleveland Browns and their one good year the last decade, the list goes on). Good teams and good coaches win 9-11 games consistently (like the Eagles). Great teams with great coaches win 11+ games consistently (like the Colts and Patriots).

I'm sorry I disagree with you. But I do not see Jim Zorn as a guy that will lead this team to greatness. To me, he's a no-credential offensive-minded head coach that produced one of the worst offenses in the league, despite having average-at-worst talent to deal with (pretty-good at best). I also saw a head coach who couldn't failed to properly handle his star players' egos, and failed to have his team come out properly motivated in numerous weeks throughout the season -- so the intangibles of head coaching were scant as well. Nice guy, solid fundamental coach, great QB coach. Not a head coach. Not right now at least.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Rypien...your problem is spending money on Peppers, T.J. and Suggs. That's the problem right there.

Not to mention starting two rookie OL's...
that's not going to help at all.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | December 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I just hope they don't get rid of Jim Zorn. I'd like to see him get at least another year to get the offensive passing plays integrated with the running plays.

In my opinion most of the problems the Redskins had this year were due to injuries on the offensive line. This has been a big problem for many seasons. I'd like to see them get more depth on the line and maybe a bit younger as well. It seems like Jon Jansen can't start a whole season but he would be a great reserve. Having him come off the bench maybe he could avoid getting injured in the preseason or the first few games and then if one of the guys goes down there's a great player to fill in for him. If you look at the games where our top O-line starters played vs where we started to have to play reserves there's a clear decline in offensive production.

Posted by: jefeweiss | December 29, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I did not list this year for Turner because he was not a backup.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

that Lerner is receiving permission to speak with an unnamed NFL executive.

please god let this be vinny cerrato!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

flound, I'm moving on from that lunacy...my favorite line, "I'm not much of a stats guy"....obviously, because if you looked at the stats you'd see that your stance is wrong....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dealer1 | December 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

The issue issn't Betts: it's Portis

Betts practices while healthy, doesn't play

Portis doesn't practice while hurt, does play

Portis' ego demands restrict the offense to his having the ball or else

Most NFL teams use a mulitple back approach in order to both rest and attack defenses with fresh legs

Portis doesn't have the 'burst' he used to have, but he must have the ball because he was given a ridiculous contract

Loving CP too much has been as bad as loving the other backs too little

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Well psp, I respect your posts. BUt I can't get down with the idea that "mediocre teams win ten games ALL THE TIME"?? I guess we have a different definition of mediocrity but if you are 4 games over .500 in this league, in any division with ANY schedule, you are better than average. Might not be a really good team, but you are not mediocre.

I hear you on not betting against the SKins. You will be happy next year that you didn't.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 29, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Turner and Betts aren't in the same league.

Betts is Lamont Jordan. Turner is a pro-bowl RB. You can't compare the two. Every stat favors Michael Turner, aside from receiving out of the backfield.

Posted by: psps23 | December 29, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Here are the stats continue your argument.

Thanks for that, although that's not really what I was arguing. I was arguing that Betts is a fine #2 back in this league, not whether or not he is/was better than Turner.

That said, I think it's interesting that for someone who has such a Rep for fumbling, his worst year he had 4 total, and lost only two of them.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 29, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

vinny gotta go. here are a few names to remember that he signed. Chad Morton, Trung Canidate, Mike Barrow, Jerome Mathis, and the list goes on forever. His rap sheet is pretty poor and I think most employees are judged by their body of work. Snyder is a business man through and through and if he is results driven then he will have to see that Cerrato has underperformed at his job. bye bye cerrato!

Posted by: dadanimal | December 29, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Dealer - do you really think the problem is Zorn? I think we need to give him more than one year to prove/disprove that he is or is not a good coach. The team seemed to respond to him at the beginning of the season and I think that the Cinncinnati game made him realize that he had to take some of the heat and not stick to the same formula. I really like him and hope that he does well, but I am also a glass half full person (who was concerned that we'd have a playoff game in DC the weekend of the Inaugeration and I wouldn't be able to get there!)

Posted by: suzannepdc | December 29, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

beepbeep

Posted by: alex35332 | December 29, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

flound, I'm moving on from that lunacy...my favorite line, "I'm not much of a stats guy"....obviously, because if you looked at the stats you'd see that your stance is wrong....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 29, 2008 11:48 AM


I'm gonna call RI 'My Wife 2.0'...

I said I'm not much of a pulling the stats guy. I don't go somewhere else and pull stats. Flound did me the favor and now you look at them and tell me I am wrong. I am very much a stats guy, though.....

---------------------------

AND JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED THE STATS I WILL REPOST FLOUND's POST:Turner as a backup

YEAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2004 SDG 14 20 104 5.2 30 0 4 0 0
2005 SDG 16 57 335 5.9 83 3 11 0 0
2006 SDG 13 80 502 6.3 73 2 24 0 0
2007 SDG 16 71 316 4.5 74 1 10 1 1

Betts as a backup

YEAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2002 WAS 11 65 307 4.7 27 1 13 1 1
2003 WAS 9 77 255 3.3 13 2 15 0 0
2004 WAS 16 90 371 4.1 27 1 19 0 0
2005 WAS 12 89 338 3.8 22 1 17 2 2
2006 WAS 16 245 1154 4.7 26 4 59 4 2
2007 WAS 16 93 335 3.6 20 1 16 1 1
2008 WAS 13 61 206 3.4 14 1 15 1 1

Here are the stats continue your argument.


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 29, 2008 11:45 AM


Now what were you guys saying?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 29, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Ah well....8-8....it is what I predicted the Redskins would be at the beginning of the year and my prediction came true.

They showed some flashed but entered the season with too many new things. New Coach, New offense, etc.

Lets be honest...all the problems on this team couldn't be fixed in a year.....but the potential is there. LET THE YOUTH MOVEMENT CONTINUE!!! The lines need attention this year......we have a 1st, 3rd 5th and 6th.

Sign Haynesworth.....draft a Rookie DT or DE to put next to him....I think that one signing will allow the younger DL to excel. The question is whether to keep TAYLOR?

Resign Hall and Rogers.... Cut or make Springs take a paycut. Draft a LB to replace Washington.

Do NOT sign any WRs.......we drafted Kelly & Thomas for a reason.....lets see what they can do.

Posted by: goosedude | December 29, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Betts resembles to me a more improved version of Trung Canidate......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 29, 2008 11:39 AM

Wow...easily one of the dumbest remarks I've ever read here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 29, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Also...we should add PHIL SAVAGE to our Scouting department....though i doubt he would take a demotion back to what he was with the Ravens.

Posted by: goosedude | December 29, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Vinny still around? There goes 2009.

Next season was going to be a wash anyway, but with young, well-scouted draft picks mixed with cheap, no-name veterans, it could've been a nice wash.

I'll bet anyone and everyone a nickel that 2009 will be another wasted year.

Posted by: Meepo | December 29, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I say we deed every square inch of Landover to Parcells to take over this mess.

Posted by: kone | December 29, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Just say no to Haynesworth!

Posted by: kone | December 29, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"Lets be honest...all the problems on this team couldn't be fixed in a year.....but the potential is there. LET THE YOUTH MOVEMENT CONTINUE!!! The lines need attention this year......we have a 1st, 3rd 5th and 6th."


This is idle fantasy! Vinny has repeatedly said that the Skins do NOT draft for need; they take the best rated player available at that draft slot. And how likely is it that Vinny has ANY OL or DL ranked anywhere in the 1st or even 3rd round? so we will have another dumb-arse draft where Vinny takes the best available at #13 even if it happens to be ANOTHER STUPID WR!!!

Until a decent GM comes in, the Skins are doomed to mediocrity, clawing for even the lowest-seed wilcard spot. And we will probably be grateful for it because Redskin fans are so desperate to win after so many years of crappiness.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 29, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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