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Hall Heads Skins' Free-Agent List

We're now about 10 days away from the start of free agency, and I've touched based with the Skins' top free agents or people very close to them. Other than cornerback DeAngelo Hall (and longsnapper Ehtan Albright, who was re-signed last week), none knows where he stands.

There has been virtually no contact between the Redskins and the agents for these players, aside from Hall's camp. I reported weeks ago that the Skins were making re-signing the corner a priority, and the sides will meet at the scouting combine, which will be held in Indianapolis this weekend, to see if a deal can be struck before the start of free agency, according to league sources.

The rest of this group is in the dark. At their exit meetings in January, the Redskins' potential free agents said they were given no indication of whether the club wanted them back. Joe Gibbs always made it a point to address the team and to point out how badly he wanted to retain certain players; Jim Zorn carries very little of Gibbs's power, however, with Vinny Cerrato now the top dog. Zorn does not have the authority to tell a player how much the team might be willing to spend to keep him, or to speak for upper management, so it would be silly for him to do much more than to thank these guys for their service and express a desire to have some back. The guys calling the shots have not reached out to them, and several of the team's free agents said they figure the Skins are content to let them hit the market and see what's out there.

So here's a look at the group:

Cornerback DeAngelo Hall

The priority guy, he will be a focus of the combine. The Redskins have expressed their desire to keep him from hitting free agency, but Hall won't come cheap. I continue to suspect it would take something in the range of $15 million guaranteed to get a deal done. The Skins are still in a cap bind and have given no indications to this point internally or externally that they will spend to any significant degree in free agency.

Guard Pete Kendall

His knees and age are a concern, and the Skins are in no rush to tie him up. However, with the offensive line in need of attention and 2008 draft pick Chad Rinehart showing no indication to this point he is going to be a player - at least according to the assessment of those inside the organization during their personnel meetings - then spending $1-million-to-$1.5 million on Kendall for a short-term deal might be in order. The Skins badly need help at guard and right tackle, and it's doubtful they could fill all three spots with outside free agents.

They need to draft offensive linemen like crazy, but have just four picks. They have relied on stopgaps for far too long, but keeping Kendall, who could play center and right guard in a pinch, makes some sense. There has been no contact between the sides, however, since the end of the season, according to sources.

Defensive end Demetric Evans

The Skins plan to meet with Evens' agent, Drew Rosenhaus, at the combine, and could still get something done before the start of free agency, although there has been no thrust in that direction to this point. Evans was the team's best defensive end last season, excels playing tackle in the nickel package, and is very versatile. I've liked his game for a long time, and with so much uncertainty at the position (Jason Taylor still appears likely to be gone; Phillip Daniels has been hurt each year for a long time), it would seem to be a no-brainer to get a deal done early. This is not a player who is going to break the bank, but he could attract interest on the open market.

Linebacker Khary Campbell

There has been no contact at all, according to sources, despite all of the stud performances he's made on special teams over the years. The Skins appear content to let Campbell sit on the market for a while - just as they did with their other special teams captain, Rock Cartwright, a year ago. With so few dependable linebackers under contract and given Campbell's special teams role, bringing him back would be wise.

That's pretty much it for the regulars. The rest of the bunch will likely be sitting out there a while, and if they did return we're talking vet minimum deals with very little or no guaranteed money. Trying to squeeze another year out of offensive lineman Jason Fabini might not be smart. Safety Mike Green and linebacker Alfred Fincher worked out well and seem like guys who merit a shot during training camp. Defensive lineman Ryan Boschetti is the ultimate all-effort guy, but this may be the end of the line for him.

That covers the Skins' unrestricted free agents. Hall and Evans will be the guys to watch coming out of the combine since they may be re-signed before free agency opens Feb. 27. The rest of this group would be very surprised not to be without a team when that day arrives.

By Jason La Canfora  |  February 18, 2009; 9:55 AM ET
 
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Next: Zorn Addresses Plans at Combine

Comments

Zorn may not have the pull or he may want to start building his own team first.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Alex,

Right. Hall is under contract. Read the above and see why corner is not a position of strength.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Both Monte and Gholston are RFA, don't we have to tender them before the start of FA or they hit the open market?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

BG I see it differently. Holliday is 33 or 34. I'd think Parcell would want the younger Canty as one of his starters along with Lanford, Merling and Starks.

Posted by: TWISI | February 18, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Evans, Monte, Gholston, and Hall are the only guys that should be locked up prior to FA. Kendall is a nice luxury but shouldn't be signed at anything over a vet min. contract and neither should any of the other FA's we have. When will the cuts happen though? that's what I want to see, we have to start cutting guys soon. I can't believe/hope and pray they aren't planning on keeping Taylor, Washington, Griffen, and Springs.....but who knows, they extended Carter and ARE so let the craziness begin.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Basically sounds that the team is not talking to anyone.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

twis, could be, I could also see him using a pick on a DE, instead as well. I think CCanty is going to be surprised at the market reaction to him. I don't think he gets signed right away, based on what I'm hearing he's asking for, that being in the 50 million dollar range.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I did not say he was under contract, just that I think the team will get one done.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

How about outside free agents?

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 18, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"The Skins plan to meet with Evans' agent, Drew Rosenhaus"

That can't be good.

Posted by: ga8085 | February 18, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Why wouldn't they lowball the hell out of D. Hall at this point? What other team is going to pay him?

Posted by: HustlerofCulture | February 18, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Halls number will come down once we see what happens with some top Corners out in FA.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

alex

'...Basically sounds that the team is not talking to anyone...'

In all seriousness, I don't think the tea is going to do anything but get real pragmatic and cheap and try to m ine what talent they have on the roster already.

The trouble with this method of conduct is that it's just as bad as blowing a wad of cash on guys way past their prime.

Again: not having a strong enough person to control personnel versus money decisions is what hurts the Redskins.

There's no guy to say "not now" and no guy to say "yeah, let's do that." Now, they're letting the economy dictate what they do.

An we know the economy sucks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Basically sounds that the team is not talking to anyone.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:25 AM

This is the way they did it last year, except with Todd Collins. They let the players come to them. That's how they got Rock so cheap -- he rejected their offer, went out on the market, then came back and took what he could get.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

wouldn't that be nice Moe. Competent leadership.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Makes sense... The team has been meeting internally for the past three weeks to devise their free agent strategy. I seriously doubt they would share this information with reporters.

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

When will the cuts happen though? that's what I want to see, we have to start cutting guys soon.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:24 AM

Why? Didn't we get under the cap by restructuring two contracts -- Carter and Randle El -- last week? If so, we don't have to cut anyone until we need the cap space to sign free agents or, after the draft, our rookies.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Mosley: If the Redskins feel like they can draft an elite pass-rusher at No. 13, I think they'll stay right there. If not, I think trading down would be a strong possibility. This team has obvious needs on the offensive and defensive lines. Last year, Cerrato & Co. may have gotten a little cute going after two wide receivers and a tight end in the second round. Those moves might temporarily energize the fan base but they don't always pan out. Would you rather have some talented young linemen or Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis and Devin Thomas? Well, it's too early to rule those guys out, but the early returns have been awful. Last year's draft was all about building around quarterback Jason Campbell. The Redskins don't have a lot of picks this year, so they need to choose wisely. They made some mystery-meat picks last year, although give them credit for hitting on Chris Horton in the seventh round. And you better not throw a draft pick at a punter unless he's the real deal.

ugh, if Raji or one of the top 3 tackles aren't there at 13 we HAVE to trade back, no more tweener ends or the 4th or 5th best tackle, if we can trade back we'd have a shot at Alex Mack and Duke Robinson, that would be a lot better than anything we'd get at 13 if Raji or the big 3 OTs are gone.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

This from PFT:

Said Redskins DE Demetric Evans, a pending free agent, “I want to stay in Washington, but I want to be a starter.”

Now does that mean he wants to be a starter or he wants to be paid like a starter? Or both?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

dre bly anyone??

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 18, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

and no we were 7.5 over and the extensions got us closer to compliance but we are still over the cap.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Anyone notice that JLC starts every post now with "As I reported weeks ago"

Kinda funny.

Posted by: SonnyFan | February 18, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

dre bly anyone??

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 18, 2009 11:00 AM

This was discussed extensively on the previous thread. Most guys weren't interested. But, this is RI, so there was no agreement.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

te, thanks for posting that. I'm not sure what to make of that. Did Evans play well enough to warrant being a full time starter?? I don't know what to think.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

And, on Dre' Bly, my prediction is that the Redskins are one of three teams that try to claim him off waivers. Redskins tried to trade for him two years ago and his salary next year would be only $3.6 mill, cheaper than Hall or Springs.

If they get him, then zjfr2 will get to see someone cut.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

From the times:

Coach Jim Zorn told The Washington Times this week that the Redskins want to re-sign Evans and consider him a valuable cog. However, as usual, salary cap space is tight for Washington. Even after restructuring the deals of defensive end Andre Carter and receiver Antwaan Randle El last week, the Redskins remain about $4 million over the projected $123 million salary cap; they must clear more room by Feb. 27, which is when the free agency period starts.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Like it or not, cuts are coming....

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see someone cut ... I'm planning on checking out the new Friday the 13th movie. I'm guessing that should have some good cutting.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Cutting Taylor or Marcus Washington would get them below the cap I believe

Posted by: HustlerofCulture | February 18, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

and they should, at a minimum, Mwashington and Taylor should be gone. And Griffen and Springs should at the least be restructured and if they won't they should be gone too.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Said Redskins DE Demetric Evans, a pending free agent, “I want to stay in Washington, but I want to be a starter.”

This is why I think the skins should be in rebuilding mode. Evans is a decent player, but he best used in a rotation. Let these guys walk. Cut tie with the veteran bloat. Play the younger players on the team, and use next year's draft to retool.

Posted by: TWISI | February 18, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

te, disagree on bly, I don't think they go near him....he's at this point, a slight improvement on Smoot.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I have zero desire for Bly, older declining corner who was overrated to begin with and would be as expensive as simply extending Carlos....no thanks. Sign Hall, restructure or cut Springs, keep Carlos, find a reasonable younger FA if Springs goes and start Hall and Rogers. Smoot isn't great anymore but he's serviceable as a #3 along with a signed guy is fine.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

te, disagree on bly, I don't think they go near him....he's at this point, a slight improvement on Smoot.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:14 AM

You might be right, given the cap numbers that zjfr2 just posted. My thinking is that if they cut Springs and sign Bly they have a cap savings, plus they've got someone who can play on a regular basis. But I haven't seen Bly play, and I don't know whether he can start. The new FO at Denver sure doesn't think so -- they're taking a cap hit to get rid of him.

Still, we have a FO that lives in the past: if they wanted him in 2007, then they think that in 2009 he's ripened, not rotted.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Resigning Kendall would be stupid. Pittsburgh let a potential HoF lineman go last year and replaced him with a mid-round draft pick who did a decent job for them last year. The Skins spent a 3rd rounder on a lineman and they need to play him NOW sink or swim. Enough of the band-aid signings: GET YOUNGER!

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 18, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

twis, you might be onto something. Evans is a good player, but if he's put into a full time role does that minimize his effectiveness?? He's also going to be 30 years old, at the start of the season.

I'm conflicted on this one....of course if he walks, JLA will have a field day with it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, I disagree about Evans, or at least his characterization as "best used in rotation", esp. if you think he is "veteran bloat." The guy is a starter. He IS the BEST run-stuffing AND sack-getting defensive end on the roster. Blache rotates ALL the linemen ... and different packages have different guys. But Evan is a starter and would be most likely to become a beloved star if they let him leave. Relying on "younger players" is boneheaded unless the new business model is NOT to keep the guys they've brought in as rookies and trained.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I'm conflicted on this one....of course if he walks, JLA will have a field day with it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:22 AM

Yeah, but if we re-sign him JLa will say we paid too much. Or too little. Hard to predict, but it won't be "just right."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Evans DOES have (and play) a "full time" role.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

te, thats right...lol...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor was a panic signing (two draft picks) when Daniels went down. Evans was the natural replacement for Daniels. He stepped up, presumably to the surprise of the Skins' front office.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Evans is a nice player, if he wants anything beyond backup money or if he seriously wants a starting promise then let him go!!!! He is worth keeping on the cheap, but he is 30 years old and he had 3.5 sacks for a 16 game season playing a ton of snaps. Hardly impressive work that warrants paying anything over standard backup money for. He is a solid player nothing special, if he has delusions of grandeur let him walk.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Zjack, agree to disagree. Speed rushers don't "flash" in the NFC East. Evans at DE or DT > or = Cornelius at DT.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins should cut ties with Springs. Dre Bly was just cut by the Broncos and he wanted to come here all along. Sign him to a short term deal. I also think its time to let Smoot go. They should re sign Hall. If they can't get rid of Springs due to the cap then maybe they can trade Rogers and pick up another pick or two. I do not think they should bring back Kendall. He is just too old and why waste cap space on him. If anything they can trade down and get a few more offensive linemen. There should be a few depth o linemen available as free agents as well.

Posted by: bigjofc | February 18, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Evans is our best D-linemen and lots of people don't think he is worth keeping around? Let's get rid of J.Taylor before we get rid of D. Evans.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

dcsween I wasn't thinking of Evans as "veteran bloat". However, he would be if he got signed to a starting DE salary. I don't know if playing youger players is a boneheaded move or not. I know that overpaying someone who has always been a backup and is going into the latter 1/3 of his career, is not best use of the minimal cap space the skins have.

Posted by: TWISI | February 18, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

zj, mark it down...we're in agreement on Evans....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

zj, mark it down...we're in agreement on Evans....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

I was unaware that hell had frozen over.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Evans is our best D-linemen and lots of people don't think he is worth keeping around? Let's get rid of J.Taylor before we get rid of D. Evans.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 11:44 AM

Two things wrong with this:

1) If Demetrius f-ing Evans is your best D-lineman, it's time to remake your line.

2) It's not Evans or Taylor. Taylor's almost certainly gone and Evans ain't worth keeping if he really thinks he should start. Draft a guy and move on.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 18, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I would love to see Evans re-signed for reasonable $$.....I’m not saying it will or won’t happen, but he fits the mold of past players that the Eagles have always been poaching from us. Seems like he would fit really well into their rotation.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 18, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I was unaware that hell had frozen over.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 11:52 AM

Yeah? Check you heating bill.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Stop Stop stop....i'm tired of people like just average players.

DE Demetric Evans

Will he get 10 sacks this year?

Will he help the redskins reach a super bowl this year?

just because he's a nice guy and may come cheap...doesne't mean we should sign him.

we have all seen him play. Ask yourself this one question...

Is he really a upgrade????

Let's get better and not stay average. I'm really tired of it.
You pay for what you get!!!!

Look at Peyton Manning. One of the highest paid QB's

You pay for what you get.
Now i'm not saying go out and go on a shopping spree but don't just sign people back just because they are cool and nice.... can Demetric Evans produce.

At the end of the season he'll have 4.5 sacks and a couple of tackles and then next year 2.5 then down and down.

Let's get better!

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 18, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Draft a guy and move on.

Posted by: brownwood26 |


If Evans walks, a guy like Tyson Jackson would be in play. He hasn't been discussed much up here, but he's the big DE everyone has been talking about. There isn't much hype on him, because he,s not a speed rusher. However, he could slide inside on passing down and perhaps give a push inside.

Posted by: TWISI | February 18, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see Evans, Campbell resigned. Solid players. If Hall does not
resign, no big loss.

Posted by: madalao | February 18, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"Did Evans play well enough to warrant being a full time starter?? I don't know what to think.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

If neither Jason Taylor nor Andre Carter played well enough to be a full-time starter, then Evans did not play well enough to be a starter either. What Evans did was admirable considering his expectations coming in, but he was not better than either of those players during the season. He was run over just as bad as either of the two mentioned before (including nearly exclusively during the two game-killing drives in our Dallas and Baltimore losses), and he was not better than either at penetrating into the backfield, getting sacks, and/or getting into the passing lanes.

Great rotation guy, great overachiever, phenomenal for depth along the entire line, but not a starter. At least not if the goal is to upgrade the defensive line. Do everything we can to keep him, but if he's seeking a big payday then be prepared to say goodbye.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

We need young Olineman first and foremost! If we don't sign any in FA than the draft has to be about that above all else! I still say if we don't sign any, and the three best tackles are gone we should trade back and get Mack and Robinson. But unless they sign the Ravens center, Carey, and another guard the majority of the draft and the top 2 or 3 picks has to be on the Oline. The Dline needs help for sure, but it is a distant second to our oline.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

HAYNESWORTH TO HIT THE MARKET
Posted by Mike Florio on February 18, 2009, 11:57 a.m.

If the Tennessee Titans manage to re-sign defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, it won’t happen until after Haynesworth has seen what other teams are willing to pay.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, Haynesworth won’t do a deal with the Titans until after he tests the market.

Schefter says that a “host” of teams are expected to make a play for Haynesworth, one of the top free agents of the 2009 class, and that Haynesworth’s deal could average roughly $12 million per year with guaranteed money in excess of $30 million.

We still believe that the principle of caveat emptor applies here, especially in the wake of last week’s revelation that, four days after being placed on probation, Haynesworth allegedly caused an automobile accident by driving his Ferrari at a high rate of speed.

For more on the concerns teams should have about making a guy who didn’t become a force until he was playing to get paid, here’s a recent thing we did for SportingNews.com.

greeeeeaaaaattttt, I hear Redskins One fueling up already........which sucks, we don't need one Albert and nothing else, we need 5 or 6 guys. (minimum signings should be young guard, young tackle, a DE, two LB's, and if you cut Springs a corner)

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

The Skins need to use all their picks to draft 4 linemen. Stop trading away picks because they will be bad next year and pick early n 2010. The Future is in the Future.

Posted by: jercha | February 18, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see someone cut ... I'm planning on checking out the new Friday the 13th movie. I'm guessing that should have some good cutting.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

This one is not that graphic, Sween. As a result of the lean economy, Jasno Voorhees is reduced to killing people by microwaving their food in plastic containers. It's a long movie.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 18, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

'...Evans fits the mold of past players that the Eagles have poached from us...'

This could work out well for Evans, then.

I mean, look at the history:

A Pierce is hated on by fanbase, not shown the money by St Joe, goes to the jints, gets a ring.

R Clark is not shown the money as the team doesn't understand a basic concept like 'locker room chemistry'. Clark goes to the stillers and gets a ring.

Derrick Dockery works hard, develops some skill, but the FO won't go after him because he's "too expensive". And the skins still don't have a strong lg, but hey, they didn't over pay for a guy they could've signed in mid-season before the Bills waved cash in his face.

So you're right about what the iggles/jints/'boys might do.

And all the people who feel Evans doesn't deserve the money, will watch him get snuggled up by one of our foes where he'll be seen as a valuable, humble, up-from-nothing guy who has skills that can't be measured in terms of sacks.

Clark and Pierce both felt the redskins' FO preferred to throw money at big name players while ignoring the silent guys who work their way up the ladder to a starting role.

Evan will be another example.

Just watch.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

Agreed 100%.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe

That's true

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 18, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Antonio Pierce left the Redskins when he was 25. Ryan Clark left the Redskins when he was 26. Derrick Dockery left the Redskins when he was 26.

Demetric Evans will be 30 next season. He does not fit in the same category as the other guys. He's in the same boat as Renaldo Wynn or Lemar Marshall, who were both the same type of "out of nowhere" guys that played solid depth roles, but were released just in time before they hit their decline. And both of those were the right decisions.

I want Evans back here, just for the proper price. He's good, but not that good. The guy you should be worried about the skins locking up is Carlos Rogers. If anybody has a shot at following that trend, it's Carlos.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Wow, another shocking piece of "journalism" by LaCantwriteforshtta. He has cried all season about how we have no talent, constantly overpay to keep guys, etc.; but watch him bash the Front Office if they don't re-sign Evans and/or Campbell. If these guys are so good, how come he can call our D-Line and LBs two of our worst positions talent-wise, when now he's clamoring for us to not let 2 backups from those positions go because they're too valuable? Don't get me wrong, I like Evans as much as anyone that has watched his game over the past few seasons, I would just like some objectivity, and not a negative spin on EVERY SINGLE thing the Front Office does or doesn't do. It reminds me of how JLC made Leigh Torrence out to be the second coming of Darrell Green once we let him go...

Posted by: CPortisRun | February 18, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

In the Blache system, the ends are told to play the run first as rule of thumb. This hampers ANY DE's effectiveness in terms of pure pass-rushing.

The sacks are supposed to come from blitz packages and the LBs. With our best pass-rushing LB (M.Washington) hobbled by injuries, we ended up w/ no real pass rush this year.

This is why Jason Taylor has not worked out, this is why Andre Carter was ineffective this year, this is why it would be dumb to break the bank for someone like Peppers. This is why I argued that any break-the-bank FA needs to be a guy like T.Suggs (doesn't look like that's gonna happen, though).

This is also why it would be dumb to draft a pass-rushing DE, unless our plan is to convert him to a strong-side LB. (Or unless Blache plans on changing his philosophy).

This is also why it would be a good idea to get Evans back. He won't break the bank, he knows the system and played pretty effectively in it, he's pretty versatile.

This is also why we need to lock up our secondary, so that we can play more Cobra formation and get LL and Horton around the line to make plays.

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

But their are other players that don't work out too...

Rod Garner who we did not resign and went to other teams and is no longer on the team

ummm Lamar Marshall
Not sure but I don't think he is in the leauge

Overall Moe your right. We should keep most of our players especially if they are young....

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 18, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

++++Makes sense... The team has been meeting internally for the past three weeks to devise their free agent strategy. I seriously doubt they would share this information with reporters.

Posted by: siris+++


Reporters? Based on their past ineptness, I wothey shouldn't share their strategy with ANYONE for fear of provoking scoffing laughter.

Posted by: TheCork | February 18, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Clark, Pierce, and Dockery were all established starters who were heavy contributors when they left. Evans was a fringe starter who didn't contribute all that much (33 tackles, 3.5 sacks) is 30 years old and is hardly worth any big money.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I want him here, but only at reasonable numbers and understanding he's part of a system not a guaranteed starter.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

MOE---

SUPERB post at 12:36.

If Philly or others read RI they have their psychological approach mapped out for them.

You have accurately assessed one aspect of ineptness in the front office. They are always going for the next brass ring, always looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

So they lose the good things they had and find out what they wanted wasn't all that afterall.

Posted by: TheCork | February 18, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,

I think you have half of it right. The DE's are supposed to play the run first, but the LB's are not the primary pass-rushers. Not even close. They play a much more disciplined, gap-control system with the LBs than in other systems around the league.

In a combined 10 seasons with the team, MWash, RMac, and Fletch have combined for 25 sacks. That's 2.5 sacks per season, per player. That's pathetic. Lavar Arrington was one of, if not THE premier pass-rushing LB in the league when he was here, but he couldn't fit in with this system. In this system, LBs are the safety valves. They play it safe, they make sure not to give up the big play.

The true impact players in this system are the DTs and the safeties. That's where the firepower lies. I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet the safeties blitzed more than any other position last season. And Cornelius Griffin has always been the key to the defensive pressure. When he gets push up the middle, the ends become that much more effective because they can't get run past the QB, due to the QB having no place to step up.

To me, the real position of need along the D-line is the DT. An impact DT would literally turn loose the entire D-line, IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Evans is our only strong-side defensive end. If we can re-sign him at a reasonable price, we should do so. Without him, we do not have a DE who can play the strong side. If we draft one, they ususally take a year or 2 to develop (that's why we needed to draft one last year(duh!)). Now we are in a situation where Evans has all the leverage.

Maybe someday the front office will wise up. Not holding my breath!

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

What about Orakpo in the first round (if he is still there)?

I would take him -- I think he could play strong-side DE or strong-side LB. What does everyone else think?

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

psps23

Yeah, I know the guy is 30.

No one is saying he should be given the money a Peppers or Haynesworth is worth.

But he does have a price the skins should meet, provided it's not too high.

And if it comes down to cutting Springs et al to make space, I'd do it.

The Washington Redskins need to reward humble guys for a change. The guy has been quiet and dependable. If we can't pay a guy who's like that, then would do we pay?

And besides: who do we have in house that can duplicate what he does?

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

What about Orakpo in the first round (if he is still there)?

I would take him -- I think he could play strong-side DE or strong-side LB. What does everyone else think?

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

rb I've said repeatedly I don't want another 260 lbs. end, we have Carter, Wilson, and Jackson all in that mold (technically we still have Taylor too). So IMHO we don't need to spend the #13 overall pick on another one. Many people on here are convinced he's strong enough to hold up, I'm not so sure, a career with 21 sacks in 4 years in the most pass-happy non running conference in college football. I get he's a physical freak, but so is Carter and he aint very good in our system. I just don't think we need another undersized end. I would love a Canty signing and a resigning of Evans at a reasonable price and be done with it and use the draft on Oline

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

What about Orakpo in the first round (if he is still there)?

I would take him -- I think he could play strong-side DE or strong-side LB. What does everyone else think?

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 1:10 PM

If Orakpo is in the mold of Taylor, Buzbee, or Wilson; then I'll pass on him.

What's his weight and height?

Since not too many people aren't supportive a hybrid defense, then what could he bring to thre table if he is undersized?

But then again, the things I hear about him make you curious to see how he'll contribute in a 'skins uniform.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The little soccer putz is at it again. Negative spin on everything, trying to dig up dirt.

Notice he didn't say he's spoken to anyone at Redskins Park. I wonder how much longer Zorn will speak with him. Soon it will be like every other front office guy; they will not even acknowledge his presence.

Posted by: btgo | February 18, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"The Washington Redskins need to reward humble guys for a change. The guy has been quiet and dependable. If we can't pay a guy who's like that, then would do we pay?"

I understand about wanting to keep guys around that have showed loyalty and are "quiet and dependable", but I guess I'm from the new school when it comes to things like this. IMO, there are only a few guys who aren't expendable.

Evans does not fall into this categorey. Based on his production - I mean what does he really do that is so damn valuable? The fact that he's a good, not great, rotation guy? His 3.5 sacks? His ability so stop the run (he doesn't)?

B-26, said it best: "1) If Demetrius f-ing Evans is your best D-lineman, it's time to remake your line.

2) It's not Evans or Taylor. Taylor's almost certainly gone and Evans ain't worth keeping if he really thinks he should start. Draft a guy and move on."

Indeed.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

does someone blow a whistle or something when i post for the first time - seems like everyone says something like "good god, RedDMV just posted - DAMN!", when i post for the first time during the day.

f you all.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

If the skins have to cut Springs just to have enough money to re-sign Evans, then I say no thanks.

The guys that should be the focus of keeping on the roster are Landry, Rogers, Horton, Golston, Montgomery, Campbell etc. Young guys that play significant roles. I realize that some of those guys aren't close to having their contracts up, but the principle is to keep young guys that are entering their prime. Evans is the prototypical guy that gets turned over on any roster, including by teams like the Eagles or Giants -- a one or two-year overachiever at the end of his prime seeking a big payday (think Kawika Mitchell). These guys are the players that are normally turned over and replaced with mid-late round draft picks that have been grooming on the roster. Unfortunately for the Skins, we don't really have that, so that's what makes this a dilemma.

Clearly we agree that Evans should be back, only at the right price. The key is what that price will be.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

6'4" 260 Red, and that was my point, he's might be a slightly better version of 3 guys already on our roster. Whereas right now, we don't have a starter at LG we need an upgrade at C, RG, and RT. I say have a FA class of Canty, Carey, and a LB like Carpenter, pass on Orakpo, trade down and grab Mack and Duke Robinson. That's pretty simple and covers most of our problems right there.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"A Pierce is hated on by fanbase, not shown the money by St Joe, goes to the jints, gets a ring"

Only partially true. Pierce got more than a reasonable offer, the problem was the team at the time, wasn't going to pay him more than Marcus Washington, who also at the time was playing at a high level. Pierce got offered a deal in the 26 million dollar range, IIRC, and took that and brought it to the giants, and got 500k more from them and left.

So, yes, Pierce left and won a ring with the giants, but to say he wasn't show the money is not accurate.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

When did the fans hate on Pierce, pre-leaving?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Who cares if Orakpo is the same mold as what we have already? If he is going to be like Dwight Freeney and get 10+ sacks every year you take him. Speculating about how a guy will produce based only on height and weight isn't the way to go about it.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

With the announcement that DCU will be leaving RFK how long does our great Iconic stadium have?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Who cares if Orakpo is the same mold as what we have already? If he is going to be like Dwight Freeney and get 10+ sacks every year you take him. Speculating about how a guy will produce based only on height and weight isn't the way to go about it.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84

----

Exactly. That "size judgment" mentality is what got us to draft Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly last year. That wasn't exactly a home-run.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

zj, when you mentioned a LB like 'Carpenter', did you mean Bobby Carpenter from the cowboys??

if so, what part of him being a high first round bust appeals to you? He can't make it onto the field.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Posse, your missing the point. We have guys on our roster that are the light pass rushing ends and they aren't used in our system well. Last year we brought in a great in Taylor and he was terrible in our system. Carter had one year of 11 sacks but has been a liability in the running game since he got here. We can't afford that in our system especially in our division. Yes 10+ sacks would be nice, I have been one of the loudest on here begging for pressure and sacks, but not at the expense of our run defense and unless the system is changed up we need bigger defensive ends. If Taylor struggled at that position do you really think a similarly built rookie will be that much greater just because he's younger? Regardless of what you want to say about a guy, if he was such a sure bet he wouldn't be there at #13, but we're talking about a first ballot hall of famer one year removed from arguably a defensive player of the year season who struggled in that position cause he was undersized which meant he got pushed around in the run game leading to an injury that hurt his effectiveness for the entire season, which also happened to Carter, and most likely will happen to any 260 pound end in our system.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

zj, when you mentioned a LB like 'Carpenter', did you mean Bobby Carpenter from the cowboys??

if so, what part of him being a high first round bust appeals to you? He can't make it onto the field.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse


Bean, most everything I have read is that he is a bad fit in the 3-4 and is much more of a tradition SLB in a 4-3 system plus he has all the physical tools that got him drafted highly yet may have been miscast in that system so we could get a young guy with immense physical talent on the cheap and give him a shot in a system that everyone seems to think suits him much better than the one he's in......what's not to like? Worst case he's a decent young backup/special teams player best case he blossoms in the right system and we have a good young cheap SLB for several years.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I get the point but we are comparing a guy who is a consensus first round pick to the likes of Chris Wilson and Alex Buzbee. Jason Taylor was a shadow of himself last year. I don't know if it was due to all the injuries of if he is just done. But I know he played the run in Miami well when he was healthy. Maybe Orakpo has some balls and plays the run tough along with being a good pash rusher. None of us can answer that for sure.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

zj, Carter is somewhat of a one dimensional pass rusher. Orakpo not so much. Watch some youtube on him, and you'll see that he's fast off the edge, and stout at the point of attack. He can anchor against the run, play either side, he's a really good player.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Is Carpenter even a FA? I thought Dallas just drafted him 2 years ago.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Orakpo has some balls and plays the run tough along with being a good pash rusher. None of us can answer that for sure.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!! so why waste the #13 pick on a big time maybe on a unit that was #4 in the league when you have soooooooo many needs elsewhere?!?!?!?!?!??! If Raji falls to us I'm ok with that, but barring that, our pick has got to be on the oline, not another flier on a physically talented question mark.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"Worst case he's a decent young backup/special teams player best case he blossoms in the right system and we have a good young cheap SLB for several years"

Couldn't you input Tryon into that sentence and come to the same conclusion?

just sayin....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

yes he's a free agent

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

no bean, you can't, Tryon will never be a decent backup, maybe he could possibly sneak into the decent on special teams department but if he ever steps on the field on defense the state of the Skins is in worse shape than we all imagined. all normal offense will cease and it will be run 15 yards downfield and catch the jump ball over the midget just like in the preseason.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

right....makes perfect sense...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

you asked, even though you knew the answer

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

ZJ - Every guy getting drafted is a question mark. There is no such thing as a lock. Would you prefer to reach on taking the 4th or 5th best tackle instead of taking the top rated DE? I am just curious how you are ok with Raji but not Orakpo. Raji could turn out to be Delbert Cowsette.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

IMHO taking a flier on a guy that has the same physical build and most likely the same limitations in our system as 3 guys already on the roster versus the best defensive tackle which is a greater need and Raji dominated is peers at the senior bowl and was "unblockable" is a safer bet. And I can't say anymore times that if the big 3 tackles are gone we need to/should trade back and get Mack and Duke Robinson which again IMHO and repeatedly stated Guard and Center are more pressing needs to me than tackle where we actually have 3 decent players for 2 spots versus 2 mediocre players and an unknown rookie/2nd year guy for 3 spots. If your gonna come late to the conversation at least reread my redundantly stated position before asking questions.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

'...So, yes, Pierce left and won a ring with the giants, but to say he wasn't show the money is not accurate...'

The greater point, sir, was that the Redskins eat their young and would rather pay out loot to get a guy other people have 'made'.

Case in point: didja notice how a few years ago when Reggie Wayne was about to hit the market, the Colts stood up and loudly proclaimed the guy was a player they needed and would keep?

And they kept him.

In the past two years, the Skins waved draft picks in the face of the cards for Boldin and the Bengals for Johnson. Guess what?

They kept their guys.

It's easy to nick-pick a singular point when several strong ones are made, and even easier to turn one error into a house of cards you can blow down.

The fact is: the skins let a good linebacker, safety, and starting left guard go because a lack of foresight and planning and pride.

I hope I'm wrong and the skins keep Evans in-house and away from a division foe.

But I doubt it.

Because they've made the mistake before.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

With the announcement that DCU will be leaving RFK how long does our great Iconic stadium have?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

150 years, tops. RFK will crumble into ruins before PG County gets their sjk together.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 18, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

zj, you're in the corner of a high first round draft pick, who in THREE years, has a grand total of 12 tackles. Thats right, last year he only had 2 more tackles than I did.

Other than a high first round pick, versus a 4th round pick, what is the difference between him and Tryon?? Try and use logic in your explanation, not just your magic 8 ball, and some made up stats like you did yesterday.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Sorry chief. I don't have the time to read through every single post. I'll make sure not to address you in the future and waste your precious time.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

one has the physical gifts to get drafted highly in the first round, the other has the physical gifts to not be allowed on any rides at Kings Dominion.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

At this point, I would rather have a 24 year old who would grade a 'C+' than a 32 year old who would get a 'B'.

We need to get YOUNGER... theres no point in holding onto old guys who might have one or two more productive years left. I'd rather give the young guy the experience, even if he is a slight step down.

Thats how you build a foundation. We have turned in the right direction in the last 2 years; we now have 22 guys on the game day roster who are 26 or younger or have 3 or less years in the NFL. Thats the direction we should head in if we want to be a championship team under JC/Clinton/Cooley/Landry/Rocky etc.

However, we also have 18 guys who are at least 33 or have 9+ seasons in the league. Thats a huge percentage that we need to start to shave off.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 18, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Buges allegedly has no faith in Rhino getting on the field next season is the first and foremost reason to can Cerrato.
How can you spend a first day draft pick on a kid who doesn't project to be a starter by year #2. That's how 2 small market teams make it to the Super Bowl and the Skins are home watching.

You think a 3rd round pick for Zona or P-Burg is ridin' pine in their second campaign... uh no.

Posted by: elfreako | February 18, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

You have accurately assessed one aspect of ineptness in the front office. They are always going for the next brass ring, always looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

So they lose the good things they had and find out what they wanted wasn't all that afterall.

Posted by: TheCork | February 18, 2009 1:00 PM |

Ahhh, big shock to get this JLC-sack-hugging post from Corky. You guys can't have it both ways. If you want to rip our d-linemen and say the Front Office has done a terrible job of not acquiring any talent there, as JLC has done all season long, then you can't also rip the Front Office if they choose not to re-sign a 30 year old backup from that unit. Your "so they lose the good things they had" quote is especially hilarious, considering the annoyingly sarcastic and condescending tone Lacantreporta and yourself have used for some time now to tell us all that we have no real talent. But now by potentially not re-signing Demetric Evans they would "lose the good things they had." Funny how all of a sudden a 30 year old backup from one of the least productive units on the team is so indispensable once the Front Office decides not to overpay. We all know what JLC and the lemmings like yourself would say if Vinny gave Evans the contract he wanted; something along the lines of "here we go again" giving an over-the-hill backup way more money than he could have gotten anywhere else, and why would we pay to re-sign an old backup from the d-line which couldn't rush the passer last year, etc. This act is getting old.

Posted by: CPortisRun | February 18, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Question:

If the Skins already have:

Alex Buzbee
Chris Wilson
Rob Jackson
Andre Carter
Jason Taylor
Philip Daniels

All guys who play de, why would they draft another guy at the same position, especially when Vinny Cerrato has been quoted as saying he wants to see Jackson and Wilson on the field next year?

Think right tackle or center guard people.

There is where the holes on the lineup are.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | February 18, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"one has the physical gifts to get drafted highly in the first round"

LOL...nice job ignoring reality there jack, he's got all the talent in the world, all the physical gifts to get drafted highly in the first round, yet, strangely enough, can't make it on the field, and is at best a special teams player, and not much more.

you gotta come with something better than that......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Moe! on that much we are in total agreement

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

elfreak, read what buges said about Rhino, it wasn't anything like what you read in these pages.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

actually no I don't bean, thanks to the hilarity of the way we have been run for years we started a guy named Alfred Fincher at LB last year. We desperately need LB depth but we need Oline depth more. Therefore we don't have the luxury of drafting LB's and we don't have the cap space for a big name LB signing with all our other needs too, therefore, a guy who physically warranted a Bill Parcells 1st round choice but has struggled is a valuable low risk high reward opportunity whereas the use of 4th rounder on a guy nobody projected above a 6th or 7th or more likely an undrafted FA isn't the same thing.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Bobby Carpenter has one of the shortest biographies ever on Wikipedia -- a total of seven sentences. And this is the final sentence: `Bobby never tips valet parkers when they bring his car around.` Cheap bugger.

I thought the deal on Carpenter was that he is under contract to Dallas, but Miami wants to trade for him because he hasn`t worked out in Dallas but Parcells thinks he`s good. Or is that someone else? Cant tell from his biography.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Well thankfully Vinny does not decide who gets on the field. Out of those guys listed JT may be cut, 2 guys are coming off season ending injuries, Jackson may turn out to be a player, Wilson is a scrub and AC is what he is.

I know we have major needs on the OL but we still got many more needs than that.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 18, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm assuming that psps must be 5'3", thus suffering from a Napoleon complex. Why is that you're always defedning size, especially the smaller guys - do you have size insecurities?

Kid, kidding, kiddest...

psps, what does Kelly and Thomas' size have to do with them and their production? one was injured for most of the season, and the other was more concerned with partying with Portis than perfecting his craft. Their size has nothing to do with their limited production.

I'd expect better from you, it must be today's weather.

"Who cares if Orakpo is the same mold as what we have already? If he is going to be like Dwight Freeney and get 10+ sacks every year you take him. Speculating about how a guy will produce based only on height and weight isn't the way to go about it.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84"

Um, I do, for starters. Why would you want more of the same, dude. Have you watched any advertisments within the last 6 months? You mention Dwight Freeney, well for one he's 272, 12 pounds more than Orakpo, and he isn't the greatest asset in the running game - ever notice how the Colts bottom out in that categorey?

Size matters in football. For every dimunitive footballer that has made, I can assure you that 5 times that many have been told that "you don't have the size", or "you have heart, kid, but we're looking for someone bigger or taller for this position."

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

according to PFT he was a FA but he's not listed that way on ESPN so maybe he isn't. I'm not sold on him, I am sold on Canty and Carey, and I think we need to sign at least one LB probably two and I thought he would be worth the risk, obviously its a moot point if he's not available.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

"4th rounder on a guy nobody projected above a 6th or 7th or more likely an undrafted FA isn't the same thing"


You have anything to back this up with, or is that another made up stat to support your argument.

Again, you're throwing your weight behind a guy who was picked in the top 20 picks in the draft, but can't get on the field.

Pretty weak...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

we don't have the cap space for a big name LB signing with all our other needs too,

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:40 PM

Wait, there Angry Old Man Jack. Yesterday you said we had enough cap space to cut Collins and add Garcia, but now we dont have enough cap space for a big name LB signing?

The backup QB switch would cost about $6 mill in cap space, and that`s more than enough to sign a big name LB. Do you believe the switching backup QBs (a position that rarely sees the field) is more important than an LB, who would be on the field for every defensive snap?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

TE, a backup QB versus signing Suggs, do you think that's the same thing?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Question:

If the Skins already have:

Alex Buzbee
Chris Wilson
Rob Jackson
Andre Carter
Jason Taylor
Philip Daniels

All guys who play de, why would they draft another guy at the same position, especially when Vinny Cerrato has been quoted as saying he wants to see Jackson and Wilson on the field next year?

Think right tackle or center guard people.

There is where the holes on the lineup are.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 2:33 PM
-------------------------
That is exactly what I'm saying. Orakpo may turn out to be a beast, but they're stacked at with guys just like him.

Oh and if the conventional wisdom is that Orakpo will drastically improve the pass rush, then you're mistaken BIG time.

DTs make the pass rush. Look at every player who gets or had a bunch of sacks, whether in theie career or a season, I'm almost willing to bet that they had a good to great DT lined next to them.

The 'skins will never produce a lot of sacks as long as they have their current DTs - Golston, Montgomery, and Griffin. They're not space eaters or maulers.

Yes - guard, tackle, center, or DT, is all the 'skins need to concern themselves with come draft day.

Hell that's their four picks right there, if they drafted like that (if they weren't able to obtain more picks) then I wouldn't be sour at all.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Buges allegedly has no faith in Rhino getting on the field next season is the first and foremost reason to can Cerrato.
How can you spend a first day draft pick on a kid who doesn't project to be a starter by year #2. That's how 2 small market teams make it to the Super Bowl and the Skins are home watching.

You think a 3rd round pick for Zona or P-Burg is ridin' pine in their second campaign... uh no.

Posted by: elfreako | February 18, 2009 2:30 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You lose the argument in the first sentence when you say "the fact that Buges allegedly..." Putting any JLC report from an inside "source" after the phrase "the fact that" is probably not going to get it done. How many times does JLC, um I mean this "source," have to be proven wrong before we all get the point? There is no source. The inside "source" used to be Louis Riddick; he gave JLC all types of stuff in an effort to make Vinny look as bad as possible to further his own career, then when the Front Office caught on they floated some false rumors over a period of a few months to Riddick, most of which were promptly "reported" on this very blog, and this eventually led to Riddick being let go. Just do a little research and it becomes more obvious; JLC at one point called him a "rising star in the organization" even while referring to him as 1 of the top decison-makers regarding personnel, the very personnel he rips at every opportunity. Now that Riddick is gone, there is no real "source." When was the last time Lacanwritetosavehislifea actually got any sort of "inside scoop" from one of his "sources." Wake up!

Posted by: CPortisRun | February 18, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

From Scouts Inc.

Tryon is undersized so he is going to have problems matching up with receivers and making plays in run support but he has the quickness, speed, toughness and agility to emerge as an excellent Nickel back who can also return kickoffs. With that in mind, he projects as a fifth round pick.

That ranked him a 39 which was is a late round grade, and said he lacks the necessary bulk and size for his position.

From CFN:

Washington (from trade) Justin Tryon, CB Arizona State
Expected to be one of the faster corners in the draft, he tested a tad slow, for him, registering a 4.52; a far cry from the sub-4.4 level he was supposed to run. He played bigger than his size and is a good tackler, but he's a good athlete who could be a good return man and should be able to hang with the speedier receivers. He'll just get shoved around by the bigger ones.
CFN Projection: Fifth Round CFN Position Rank: 20

And from PFT:

The Redskins reached again on diminutive Arizona State CB Justin Tryon, who was beat too often and lacked consistency throughout college.


is that enough for you bean?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Halls number will come down once we see what happens with some top Corners out in FA.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Since when have the Redskins EVER paid attention to the market? They will overspend as usual

Posted by: virtueandvice | February 18, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

not too mention, if he sees what happens to other top corners in the market that means the Skins let him hit the market which is exactly what they want to avoid, so I doubt that his number goes anywhere. They'll pay it and he may or may not pan out.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo is 6'4", 260 lbs -- same size as Demarcus Ware and Michael Strahan. Strength and quickness seem to be the essential ingredients.

We can draft someone really big and slow (like Tyson Jackson from LSU), but I don't think that's going to get it done.

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

thank zj, you just proved yourself wrong:

You cite 2 different sources that label him a 5th round pick. Don't let facts stand in the way of trying to make a point......

"4th rounder on a guy nobody projected above a 6th or 7th or more likely an undrafted FA isn't the same thing"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

TE, a backup QB versus signing Suggs, do you think that's the same thing?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 2:48 PM

No. Suggs would have a serious impact on the field. A backup QB, probably not.

As to the cap implications, you could sign Suggs to a contract with a first year cap cost less that the $6 million cap hit that it would take to cut Collins and sign Garcia.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

bean but not one of them said good pick or a smart time to grab him, and not a one of them mentioned that much like the Davis pick, you know where we had a pro bowler in front of him, that we had a roster with 3 very good corners and the incomparable Leigh Torrence so the stupidity of a corner selection after 2 wideouts and a TE in the 2nd when in the 4th we could have gotten another olineman or dlineman but keep pounding your semantic argument that Tryon wasn't as bad a pick as I said and therefore was a good one.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Alex Buzbee ... not strong or quick
Chris Wilson ... not strong
Rob Jackson ... not strong or quick
Andre Carter ... pretty good player
Jason Taylor ... not strong
Philip Daniels ... not quick

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

zj, you proved yourself wrong, given enough rope you hung yourself, now shut up and go away....moron.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

psps,

Re: your post at 1:06;

I think those LB stats speak more to our overall ineffectiveness to get to the QB from the LB position than the system. The blitz packages are supposed to generate the sacks and those packages send the safeties and/or the LBs when they are called. Otherwise it is gap-control.

The problem with LaVar wasn;t that he couldn't get to the QB, the problem was that he supposedly free-styled too much in between those blitz calls.

Either way, I think we agree the point is the same about the DE in our current scheme.

It would be DUMB to (1) break the bank on a DE free agent, and (2) waste #13 pick on a pass-rushing DE.

If we did one of these 2 things, I hope that Blache is prepared to change his system up to accomodate. Like he did toward the end of last season to turn Jason Taylor "loose" a little...

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

CPortis, I hope you have your boots laced tight for TheCork and tired_of_losers (or something like that).

La Canfora bashing is absolute blasphemy according to those two.

FTR, I get sick of La Canfora agenda filled B dot S myself - I still post on this blog, but I don't read what the thread is. Chances are one of the RI faithful have posted already, or its some facts mixed with BS, and a cheap shot here and there at Snyder or Cerrato - he's predictable is what I'm saying.

But, CPortis, I still find it very hard to believe that JLC will fabricate these sources. I know its a blog and not a printed article or story, but it just seems like you'd have to be a real utter d-bag to go that far with your agenda against the 'skins organization.

And I'll tell you what, If the Washington Post isn't confriming this stuff La Canfora is reporting, whether it be via blog or article/story, then whoever is in charge of regulating what is fed to the masses, isn't any more credible than he is.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Bean, how bout this, since you obviously are absolutely unwilling to admit that one contributor out of a draft class of 10 players (and that contributor wasn't one of your THREE SECOND ROUND PICKS) why don't you give your acceptable time frame of when we can judge this class and we'll just drop it until then ok cause I'm more than confident that when ever that magical day comes and we no longer have to wait and see either you'll finally admit that the 10 draft picks plus the 3 given away for James and Taylor thanks to Vinny's genius we don't pick for need we pick for talent strategy is the reason that this team has continued to struggle to be mediocre, or you'll figure out another way to say wait and see, but at least I'll have you on record that we should be able to judge it by then. So give me a date, how bout February 27th 2010, that's 2 years into their careers. We won't judge the class yet, cause god knows you believe it takes a minimum of 3 years for someone to contribute, but lets just agree to do an early judgment then based on production and who is still on the roster. agreed?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Red,
The post does confirm it, they confirm that they confirm every month via confirmation blog post.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

zj, you proved yourself wrong, given enough rope you hung yourself, now shut up and go away....moron.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I said Tryon was a reach in the 4th, and sited 3 sources that agreed, I don't do this for a living and don't remember every single report I ever read, so I said he should have been a 6th or a 7th, two sources said a 5th rounder and one just said he was an absolute reach. That doesn't make me wrong more so then just off on the details a little. The moron in the argument is the one defending it as good pick and standing behind Vinny's sterling record saying wait and see. I've been waiting for a decade seeing pretty much the same thing, terrible decision making, bad picks, stupid contracts, and constant dysfunction at every turn. I'll take my chances betting against Vinny, cause the odds are so wildly in my favor.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

dummy, the standard rule of thumb is you give a draft class 3 years before passing judgement on them. see if you can figure the math out on that one.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Alex Buzbee ... not strong or quick
Chris Wilson ... not strong
Rob Jackson ... not strong or quick
Andre Carter ... pretty good player
Jason Taylor ... not strong
Philip Daniels ... not quick

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 3:18 PM

What does this prove? That we need to revamp the D-line? I think that point has been stressed ad nauseum here, dude.
---------------------
Orakpo is 6'4", 260 lbs -- same size as Demarcus Ware and Michael Strahan. Strength and quickness seem to be the essential ingredients.

We can draft someone really big and slow (like Tyson Jackson from LSU), but I don't think that's going to get it done.

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 3:08 PM

You lack to cite that Demarcus Ware plays in a 3-4, which gives him more opportunity to sack the QB - he isn't an assest in the running game either. Ware is just a sack happy bama - but a good one at that.

Strahan played along DTs that were worlds better than any one we've ever had here. One man does not get the sack all my his lonesome - the DTs and their ability to clog and push the guards off the edges enable a DE to go one on one with a tackle - guys like Strahan made tackles look silly - GUYS LIKE STRAHAN, there aren't too many DEs like him. Dudes' a HOF'er and was I think between 270-280, I believe, which makes him ten to TWENTY pounds more than Orakpo - next agrument please...

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"That doesn't make me wrong more so then just off on the details a little"


hilarity.....absolute hilarity....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Zfj,
you addressed Bean but this is what I look for I would say in almost all picks as a template for what you should expect year 1-2, though position also plays a factor. For a QB there is no standard rules, This is al IMHO.

Year 1.
1st round, get playing time and a starter toward the end of the year.
2nd round, get some playing time, regular PT at the end of the year.
3rd +, any playing time is luck.

Year 2.
1st round, every day starter putting up #'s
2nd Round, play in 16 games and fight for a starting job.
3rd +, regular playing time through the season.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

dummy, the standard rule of thumb is you give a draft class 3 years before passing judgement on them. see if you can figure the math out on that one.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

We won't judge the class yet, cause god knows you believe it takes a minimum of 3 years for someone to contribute, but lets just agree to do an early judgment then based on production and who is still on the roster. agreed?

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

See bean, I pretty much said I knew you think it takes three years, so try reading the post before you act smart. And we started out so good today agreeing on Evans, but than you had to go back to being a jerk.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"psps, what does Kelly and Thomas' size have to do with them and their production? one was injured for most of the season, and the other was more concerned with partying with Portis than perfecting his craft. Their size has nothing to do with their limited production.

Posted by: RedDMV"

"Their size has nothing to do with their limited production."

Exactly. That's precisely my point. Their size has nothing to do with their production. Same with Santana Moss, Steve Smith, Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Lee Evans, Greg Jennings, Wes Welker, and the list goes on.

Size does not matter. What matters is if the guy can play. I don't know much about Orakpo, and I'm not saying that he should be a primary target on draft day. What I am saying is that in no way will I looking purely at his height and weight, and make the judgment that he would not work well with this team. Similar to how I was part of the minority last offseason to rip on people for making a fuss about needing a "big" WR. We didn't need a "big" WR. We needed any WR that could play.

If Orakpo is the best DE on the board, in no way should the Redskins opt for another DE over him (should the Redskins choose to make a DE selection). I don't care what he weighs. That is if he's the best DE on the board.

* Note: I don't actually think the Redskins should draft a DE. Just trying to dispel the theory that size in of itself makes a difference in this league. All that matters is how it's used.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Ok Wow, you guys are STILL arguing about TRYON??? Its been two days already!!!

Way too much energy to devote to a career 3rd-4th DB. Let it go already.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 18, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

dummy, its not me who thinks it takes three years, its the industry who came up with this. Many media types who follow the NFL exclusively will parrot this very thought.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

The guys who succeed despite their size are typically skill position guys. In the trenches we need beef, we're all filled up with undersized guys at end, we need beef or we need other positions. We don't need our fourth 260 pound DE, we need a big DT to replace Griffen, or we need Olineman!

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

To me, the question isn't so much which guy you draft, it's how you're able to use him.

Last year, Greg Blache said he was going to dispense with some of Greg Williams' trickery in order to put his defenders in a position to do less thinking and more crunching. The defense had an outstanding year, except for one thing -- the rush. They didn't sack the QB, and more importantly, they didn't pressure him enough, particularly in the second half.

So maybe the idea of improving the rush ought to start with the schemes. Blitzing is risky, no doubt, but it's also the quickest way for a team to improve its pressure on the opponent.

As for who to draft, whether it's Orakpo or a fast linebacker or whoever, the most important thing is how you make use of him.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 18, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"Size does not matter..." "What matters is if the guy can play." from PSP. Agreed.

I saw on redskins.com TV, Vinny C did an interview with a NFLN host about what Vinny looks for in the players he drafts. He said, the combine is just a piece of the puzzle, but the biggest piece of the puzzle is what players do on film, in pads, playing football. "Production on tape is the most critical thing." ~ Vinny C.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Bean, at some point you'll realize how dumb you actually are and how sad it is, while yes, most people say it takes 3 years to completely evaluate a draft class that doesn't mean their are zero expectations for three years after being drafted until that magical day that is safe to completely judge. Just as alex posted above it is reasonable to expect from good consistent drafting organizations that players typically progress basically along these lines:

Year 1.
1st round, get playing time and a starter toward the end of the year.
2nd round, get some playing time, regular PT at the end of the year.
3rd +, any playing time is luck.

Year 2.
1st round, every day starter putting up #'s
2nd Round, play in 16 games and fight for a starting job.
3rd +, regular playing time through the season.

and then yes after year 3 its fair to look at the complete class. But up until now, our draft class is way way behind the learning curve and they have a lot of catching up to do before you magical 3rd year. Maybe they will (I honestly hope they do), maybe they won't, but when you cut every veteran option behind Moss and ARE, and you make the picks we did in the second round with the saying that we are drafting weapons for JC and then they all fail miserably to contribute at all, its not stupid or a stretch to say that after year 1 this draft looks like a complete failure save for Horton. That isn't the final word yet, they have the chance to change that, but it doesn't mean that we completely ignore how badly this offense needed something from these guys and they either couldn't get on the field or do much when they did and that that is a disappointment. But keep giving them a complete pass until 3 years down the road....

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I just watched that video on nfl.com of vinny talking about the combine. i think he had just done a few lines of blow lol

Posted by: amsaul | February 18, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"That doesn't make me wrong more so then just off on the details a little"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

"The guys who succeed despite their size are typically skill position guys."

The top 10 DE sack leaders in the league:

John Abraham - 263 lbs
Jared Allen - 270 lbs
Julius Peppers - 283 lbs
Justin Tuck - 274 lbs
Mario Williams - 283 lbs
Dwight Freeney - 268 lbs
Robert Mathis - 245 lbs
Darren Howard - 260 lbs
Aaron Kampan - 265 lbs
Trent Cole - 270 lbs

7 out of the 10 weigh 270 lbs or less. 70%. And that's not including the DE/OLB hybrids that also dominated pass-rushing, like Suggs, Ware, or Porter.

Weight has nothing to do with it. Strength, speed, quickness, balance, and leverage is what's important. Not weight.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Vinny C always looks like he's strung out on something. His eyes twitch and he breathes heavy. lol.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"Michael Strahan
Height: 6-5 Weight: 255"

http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelstrahan/profile?id=STR122552

Like I said, its strength and quickness that are the essential attributes of a DE.

While I favor drafting B.J. Raj with the 13th pick, if he's gone by then and the top 4 offensive tackles are gone by then (which is a likely secnario), Orakpo seems the only DE on the board who even has a chance to perform up to the level we need. Plus, Orakpo may be versatile enough to play the strong-side LB position that will be vacant when the Redskins release Marcus Washington, which seems inevitable for cap reasons.

Yes, we can trade down, if someone wants to trade up. what if they don't? You want to take the 5th OT on the board over the 1st DE?

Chris Canty -- big and slow. May not be the answer you think he is.

"Bugel Discusses State Of the O-Line:

"Of veteran center Casey Rabach: “He is one of the top players I have ever coached at his position. His preparation is impeccable. He knows the offense inside and out. He knows the defenses we’re playing inside and out."

“Stephon can be as good as he wants to be,” Bugel said. “Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels have taken him under their wing and really worked him hard. His offseasons are critical because he grew up so fast as a young man he outgrew his body.

“Hopefully he can go through a season without having injuries. That’s the thing he hasn’t been able to conquer. Hopefully the third year is the charm for him because he has a great amount of talent.”

Bugel indicated that Rinehart showed signs of adjusting to the NFL game late in the season.


Chad Rinehart“I’m expecting a lot from him [in 2009],” Bugel said. “When we activated him toward the end of the season, the light bulb finally went on. The last 4-5 weeks of the season, he started perking up. He started realizing what the NFL is all about.

“He was coming from Northern Iowa and these college kids sometimes hit the wall in the NFL. With preseason, we play 20 games, and that’s twice what he played in college each year.”

Rinehart had to refine his technique and eliminate bad blocking habits before coaches feel comfortable putting him with the starting unit.

“He knows exactly what he needs to do to get ready for next year,” Bugel said.

So, while I'd like to get some offensive linemen in the draft, I'm not sold on using our 1st round pick and I'm not optimistic someone wants to trade up so that we can trade down. If we have to use the pick and Raj is gone, Orakpo is an option we need to explore.

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 18, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

CPortis, I hope you have your boots laced tight for TheCork and tired_of_losers (or something like that).

La Canfora bashing is absolute blasphemy according to those two.

FTR, I get sick of La Canfora agenda filled B dot S myself - I still post on this blog, but I don't read what the thread is. Chances are one of the RI faithful have posted already, or its some facts mixed with BS, and a cheap shot here and there at Snyder or Cerrato - he's predictable is what I'm saying.

But, CPortis, I still find it very hard to believe that JLC will fabricate these sources. I know its a blog and not a printed article or story, but it just seems like you'd have to be a real utter d-bag to go that far with your agenda against the 'skins organization.

And I'll tell you what, If the Washington Post isn't confriming this stuff La Canfora is reporting, whether it be via blog or article/story, then whoever is in charge of regulating what is fed to the masses, isn't any more credible than he is.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 18, 2009 3:25 PM |

Red-

I agree with your "you'd have to be a real d-bag premise" but I disagree with your conclusion. I put about as much faith into the Post's token confirmation of the "sources" as much as I put into what JLC "reports." All you have to do is read Emilio Ruiz-Garcia's ridiculous stand behind JLC on "Tampergate;" you know, the one where they swore up and down that what JLC did by calling the NFL was merely to pose a hypothetical question of "would this be tampering?" What a joke, the tampering rules are public and can be found in thousands of places, we ALL know what the point of the call was, and anyone who has ever seen the pudgy dork on Washington Post Live can tell his absolute disdain for the team. I don't give this hack the benefit of the doubt anymore. Futhermore, most of the crap he reports from these "sources" is either unprovable one way or another, or eventually proven to be false, so simply do the math. I know if there was some reporter out there reporting nothing but negative stories on the company I worked at, there wouldn't be any executives with any real knowledge in my office that would be willing to talk to him. What would the motivation of any of these "sources" be to feed the machine that may eventually cost them their job anyway? It helps no one who is actually privy to the inside information to give any of it to JLC considering how he'll spin it. The only situation would be like the one I spoke of regarding Louis Riddick above; the guy had an axe to grind after he was passed over for a promotion and then had Scott Campbell promoted from under him to over him.

Posted by: CPortisRun | February 18, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Right, but in a system predicated on stopping the run, why take a risk on a guy that has the exact same build as 3 other guys on your roster with the hopes that he may be the magical player that is the exception and can play above his size when we have so many needs elsewhere and if we miss he's the exact same as at least 3 players already on the roster. Sure he looked great in the Big 12 where 90% of the games he could just pin his ears back and rush the QB, but how does that translate to the NFL? I don't know, you don't know, and with 4 picks and needs elsewhere its not worth the gamble.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

psp, agreed on the de stuff....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Reading this post tells me JLaC has nothing but was ordered to post something since the WashTimes posted an article in today's paper with actual news.

WHy would they rush on anyone but DHall? They didn't rush for Eock, so they certainly won't rush for KCamp nor Kendall.

I think they just wanted to give the posters a new thread......

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

zj, I already said I wouldn't want the skins to draft a DE first. I'd rather have any position along the offensive line or a DT before I'd take a DE.

However, if the skins opt to go DE, I wouldn't want them to make the mistake of eliminating the top talent simply because of his size. If they think he's too weak to effectively play, that's another story. But size/weight does not equal strength.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

can someone post what Orakpo's height/weight was from the combine today?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 18, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

They didn't rush for Eock

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2009 4:13 PM


Eock was different. He was a hobbit. They have all the time in the world.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXDSPbZ_OUw

Possible 4th/5th round prospect.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Matt's Draft Day Big Board:
1. A. Smith
2. E. Monroe
3. J. Smith
4. M. Oher
5. BJ Raji
6. B. Orakpo
7. P. Jerry
8. A trade out of #13.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 18, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I don’t really get the argument saying not to draft Orapko due to his size being similar to others already on the roster. If a guy is better than the guys on your roster you take him, as long as other factors makes sense of course. I’m just saying you don’t rule someone out because of their height and weight.

Jason Campbell – 6ft 5inches, 231 lbs.
Peyton Manning – 6ft 5 inches, 230 lbs.

Pure conjecture, but if the Colts release Manning the Skins wouldn’t be saying “we already have a six-five 230 lb QB, so we don’t want him”…..
Or if one of those stud tackles is still there in the draft at 13, they aren’t gonna pass on the guy because he is the same size as Samuels or Jansen.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 18, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

It's truly pointless to discuss any aspect of the Redskins with optimism, as long as Snyder and Cerrato are associated with the team.

Posted by: john24 | February 18, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze,

I think the consensus is that because our system hampers the pure pass-rushing effectiveness of our DEs, it would be unwise to pick one so high especially when there is nothing in particular about his physicality that stands out over/above everyone else.

For instance, when the Lions went to grab Calvin Johnson, there was conventional wisdom that said "Hey, donkeys! You've already drafted like 4 receivers with your first picks, why take another one". But they saw that at 6'5'' 200plus and running the fastest 40 in the combine that you'd be dumb to pass on a physical freak of nature like that...

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I could see a Hobbit making a good running back. They are small quick little creatures. They are known for agility and stealth too which would help.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo is only 260 lbs.

There is no way he would have gained 20-25 lbs. in 3 months....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Pure conjecture, but if the Colts release Manning the Skins wouldn’t be saying “we already have a six-five 230 lb QB, so we don’t want him”…..
Or if one of those stud tackles is still there in the draft at 13, they aren’t gonna pass on the guy because he is the same size as Samuels or Jansen.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 18, 2009 4:29 PM

I thought the reason we took Colt Brennan, though, was because he was 6-3, 201, and added a new dimension to the position. No?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3916583

Hope we're not on his list...but it looks like Peppers wants to be a Cowpie...

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Peppers has thrown the bait out in front of the Botox King...does Jerry bite??

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

it looks like Peppers wants to be a Cowpie...

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:39 PM

They don`t have any cap space to be a player this year, do they?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I pretty much agree with you p1funk in general about drafting a DE with the #1 pick. But if the good tackles are gone, and this guy is something special, don’t rule him out simply because he is the same size as some other guys. If he is THAT GOOD, you take him, and work him in at both LB and DE depending on the package. I don’t think Blache’s system is going to hinder someone’s ability if they are that good. Unless of course you can trade down, etc, etc….like I said, it has to make sense to take the guy.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 18, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

it looks like Peppers wants to be a Cowpie...

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:39 PM

They don`t have any cap space to be a player this year, do they?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't know. What would happen if the release T.O.?

But it looks like Peppers is scheming to get to Dallas by "leaking" his interest along with 3 other not-named teams. This lets Jerruh know he's interested, but also that there could be some competition. Peppers knows he could get paid in Dallas and play in a big market. He would play opposite DeMarcus Ware, so he wouldn't have to be the focal point of blocking schemes and could run hog wild.

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Unless of course you can trade down, etc, etc….like I said, it has to make sense to take the guy.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 18, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

...and I say trade down, get more picks for the OL

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

...not to mention that if we do take a DE at #3, then Vinny would be conceding how badly he's fouled up at getting bodies for that position. Buzbee, Jackson, Wilson are "his" guys. He traded for Taylor and orchestrated the whole Erasmus James deal.

I think it is consistent with Vinny's tail-protecting tendencies to play the "DE-is-not a-need" card.

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

RYPIEN 11

'...Ok Wow, you guys are STILL arguing about TRYON??? Let it go already...'

Here, here...

Let's also get some chatter about something other than Brian Orakpo and what it takes to play de/olb.

The Orakpo noise leaves out the point that the Skins already have about three young guys to play de/olb (Wilson, Jackson, Buzbee) and Vinny wants them on the field.

He over-drafted for wide outs last year and I don't think we're about to become a team with a million young olbs.

Yak about what's really broken: the redskins' offense.

The skins could--and probably will--put the same gang on D back on the field next season and get the same results.

The better question is if Vernon Carey is brought in to start at rt, how does that effect the #13 pick?

I mean, such a move as bringing in Carey allows the team to trade away the pick for more picks or trade down to select some other player.

Then, there are the scheme issues like: does Campbell fit what Zorn likes to do or will Zorn change what he calls to let Campbell throw the passes he throws best?

Should Thomas be given the chance to beat out Randle or return kicks?

Will a running back by committee approach allow Portis to be a more effective rusher in late season--and will he accept sharing carries with Betts and Rock?

There is way much more to talk about than de's for this team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

think it is consistent with Vinny's tail-protecting tendencies to play the "DE-is-not a-need" card.

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:51 PM

Here`s what he`d say: DE was not a need but he was the best available player so I had no choice but to take him. That`s how I roll.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Should Thomas be given the chance to beat out Randle or return kicks?


Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I think Thomas should be given the chance to beat UP Randle AND return kicks.


Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

With a defense like ours, emphasis on stopping the run not getting to the QB, why would you take a DE who is probably not as good at stopping the run as someone already on the team, i.e. Daniels or Evans. If Raji fell that far the skins would be stupid not to pick him up. if he is gone and the top three OL are gone too, you would have to trade down, maybe even lower in the first and try to get either Oher or Peria Jerry, or even lower to high second round.

Posted by: theFreshinAU | February 18, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

te,

If you want my honest opinion, Vinny is gonna blindly obey the lame draft board he put together and we are gonna come home with Matt Sanchez or Jermaine Gresham.

Posted by: p1funk | February 18, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the folks who stated the need for DTs and OL...

Look how much worse the Titans were when Haynesworth was injured and look at Carolina without Kris Jenkins.

Yes, the best teams have a pass rush. But those teams have quality DTs. Redskins got way more pressure when we had big Joe Salavea and Griffin (when they were a lot younger).

Monroe or Oher might be available at 13, if not then a top DT would be nice.

Guards are often available in 2nd round or later (see Dockery, Thomas, etc).

Overall, having only 4 picks sucks. We are basically releasing one in Taylor.

Posted by: redskincow | February 18, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Moe - I like the Carey pickup for that exact reason - its less of a necessity to grab one of the big 4 tackles if they are there, and we can trade down and grab 2 more lineman.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 18, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

So all you Phantasy Phootball Phreaks who had Darren Sproles in burgundy and gold next year can pack it in. Chargers are gonna franchise him. Good thing Vinnie already got a younger, faster, cheaper Sproles when Denver dumped him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

According to Yahoo Sports: The Skins are 7.7 million dollars under the cap as of last Thursday.

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Evans is a free agent -- he's not presently on the team. He should be evaluated against all the other DEs on the roster as well as available free agent and draftable DEs.

He does have experience in the system, is a solid rotational DL, and should be resigned at a reasonable salary. However, I'd be surprised if he earned the starting DE position opposite Carter. And I seriously doubt he will sign for starter DE money in free agency -- more likely around the average for 6 yr DL starters who have not gone to the ProBowl (~3.5 mil/yr)

BTW, TheWarpath.net has the Skins at 1.5 mil under the cap. It's difficult to know who's right, since the team cap status is not officially published by the NFL.

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

"Alex Buzbee ... not strong or quick
Chris Wilson ... not strong
Rob Jackson ... not strong or quick
Andre Carter ... pretty good player
Jason Taylor ... not strong
Philip Daniels ... not quick

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all

What does this prove? That we need to revamp the D-line? I think that point has been stressed ad nauseum here, dude."

We run a 4-3 "Duuuude". Not a 3-4 like Dal-ass. That means the priority is on stopping the run. Panty waist pseudo linebackers in the 3-4 are typically poor when it comes to this.

So lets look at the needs on both lines:

1. Andre Carter reasonable against the run
good pass rusher.
2. Demetric Evans good against the run.
improving pass rusher.
3. Philip Daniels good against the run.
deteriorating pass rush.

Offensive Line.

1. Chris Samuels T good when healthy
2 recent IR's
2. Jon Jansen T can't last 16 games.
now a backup.
3. Stephon Heyer T good swing man backup.
not a true starter.
4. Rhinehart T/G trying at guard flop
at tackle.

Its pretty clear that the offensive line has to be the priority in this draft given the dearth of choices and the desperate need. Your quarterback, any quarterback is
at risk behind this line.

DE IS NOT A DESPERATE NEED. Can be filled through FA. DT IS NOT A DESPERATE NEED.

However GUARD AND CENTER ARE.

Posted by: periculum | February 18, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

The Skins top needs right now are to fill the starting LG, DT, and P positions.

Re-signing free and restricted agents will change the equation. For instance, I expect the Skins will tender DTs Golston and Montgomery. They will also attempt to sign LG Kendall and DL Evans. However, the Skins do not have much salary cap space left, so if the DTs are offered a higher salary by another team -- they may have to let them walk -- like the ridiculous offer Buffalo made to Dockery...

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

For all those front office haters -- at least there is no way the Skins can screw up signing a better free agent punter ;->

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Martial Arts Expert Challenges Chris Brown to a Fight

I was sure this would turn out to be Chuck Norris when I clicked it.

Sadly, No!

It's not Leigh Torrence, either.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | February 18, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

For all those front office haters -- at least there is no way the Skins can screw up signing a better free agent punter ;->

Posted by: siris | February 18, 2009 6:54 PM

It would be nice to think this, but consider the guy they signed. He competed against Plackemeier in a punt-off at Redskins Park last fall. And he finished second. So, maybe I`m just naive, but it sounds like he`s not as good as Placekemeier.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of all of them and sign the Stone Bridge High School Football team to play there on Sundays. While they will get creamed by the NFL teams at least it will be fun to watch them lose. Watching the Skins lose is not fun and I am going out on a limb here but next season my prediction for their end of year record shall fall at 7-9 in 2009 - 8-8 in 2010, 9-6 in 2011, 8-8 in 2012 and forever thereafter while Dannyboy owns this team and makes all these great personnel moves averaging about .500 at best.

Posted by: Sideswiped | February 18, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Combine story.

youtube link.

P.S. Suggs has been franchised.

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | February 18, 2009 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Resign Hall, Monte, and Gholston. Resign Evans if its reasonable. Cut Taylor, Mwashington, Springs, and Griffen. Sign Canty, Carey, and a LB. Trade back get Mack, and Duke Robinson, take a speed back in the 3rd, and draft two Dtackles in the 5th and 6th. Fairly simple, very doable, and fixes almost everything.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Today on the John Thompson Show they were talking about how owners affect the behavior and performance of a team. I think that we are a perfect example of this. Our owner doesnt care about winning or the fans half as much as his green friend George Washington. Basically every player on the team is motivated by money, and dont give a full effort on the field. This stems from the owner and the attitude he brings to the team, charging ridiculous prices for concessionas and making splashes just to sell jerseys. Until our owner becomes about winning, our team isn't ever going to show the fight it takes to win because every employee models themselves after their boss subconsciously in an attempt to relate to them and advance in their profession.

Posted by: DaFunBunch | February 18, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Trade back get Mack, and Duke Robinson, take a speed back in the 3rd, and draft two Dtackles in the 5th and 6th. Fairly simple, very doable, and fixes almost everything.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:04 PM |

Angry old man Jack,

Amazing. Only you are simple-minded enough to think that this is `fairly simple, very doable, and fixes everything.` Most people would characterize it as a miracle.

Trading down from 13 is never simple, at least not if you expect to get fair value for your pick.

And getting the two picks that you want, where you want them? What do you think are the odds of that unless you`re taking fourth round talent in the second round?

As far as you`re other three picks, yeah you can get guys who meet your specs -- two DTs and a speed back -- but why do you think they can even make the team, improve on existing talent, and `fix almost everything`?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

TE, I'm more than getting tired of both you and bean, if ya'll disagree fine, but you both are extremely insulting an condescending in your responses and it gets really fing old. Trading back is very doable, we did it several times last year, most every mock has Mack going to the Steelers at 32 and Duke going mid to late 2nd, so getting Mack should be no problem if you still have a first round pick, and if Duke is gone than take the second best guard, not that complicated. both of you have acted all day like Orakpo is our only pick at 13 and there is no guarantee he will be there at 13 either. So quit pretending that your one opinion or idea is the absolute only way to go and anybody with a different idea is a moron. You're not that smart, there's a reason you're bloggin on here just like the rest of us and not rich famous and running your own team. Both of you need to dial it way back and realize neither of you has all the answers or are the authority on anything but being annoying.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

and the rest of my post that you failed to quote said signing Carey, Canty and LB, so basically my scenario addressed DE, DT, T, C, G, LB, and RB. Is it absolutely the only way to go, is it perfect no, but its just as good an idea as anybody else's so shut up.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Amazing how all the recent franchise tagging (Sproles, Suggs, et al) has suddenly put out the fires of 'bring in this guy' or 'sign that guy.'

Thank god. Now the serious people can be heard.

If you are a right thinking fan/blogger, you have to hope Parcells looks at V Carey, says, "Why bother?" and the Skins' FO sweep in to make him and perhaps a slb like B Scott the only players bring into the burgandy and gold family.

Signing a vet rt and slb frees up a lot of draft options.

It allows everything from trying to trade the #13 pick for more picks or the team could take a dt, c/g, wlb, t with the picks it has and still come out fine.

The 27th of Feb is approaching. The closer that day gets, the more the proverbial 'chips' start to fall, and the serious players make moves.

You have to hope that for once, things fall our way rather than apart.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2

'...TE, I'm more than getting tired of both you and bean...'


I feel you here, bro, even though I like t_e.

You have to remember that Beantoen is a Red Sux fan.

Red Sux fans are a breed that specializes in tearing down what they build up on their own.

If you scan through Bean's posts, you notice he never offers anything but put-downs on whatever polite and even sometimes clueless people are trying to say.

Just ignore'em. They're harmless. It's Flounder/JLC that confounds me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

both of you have acted all day like Orakpo is our only pick at 13 and there is no guarantee he will be there at 13 either.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:46 PM |

Angry Old Man Jack--Really? I think you're confused. I have never posted anything that has the word "Orakpo" in it before this. Nor have I recommended anyone at 13.

And, yeah, I have no criticism of the first part of your post re free agency. It is entirely within the Redskins` control, but the draft depends on actions by 31 other teams. For example, trading down is simple. What is not simple is finding a trade down that gets you fair value. Almost anyone will give you a first and a third for unlucky 13, but that's not fair value.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

If you scan through Bean's posts, you notice he never offers anything but put-downs on whatever polite and even sometimes clueless people are trying to say.

Just ignore'em. They're harmless. It's Flounder/JLC that confounds me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

That's is the absolute truth, all either of them ever do is insult, condescend, and basically be utterly aggravating. Can't remember the last time either one of them said "here's an idea...." they just enjoy sitting back and sniping at everyone else. It just gets so old though...

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

I feel you here, bro, even though I like t_e.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:13 PM

Moe,

I'm warming to you too. Big hug, dude.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Sproles was franchised too.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Can't remember the last time either one of them said "here's an idea...."

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 10:18 PM

That's because you're confused. Just this morning I was up here with an idea about Dre' Bly. My idea was that the 'Skins would go after him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Scratch that, Sproles' franchise tag has already been reported on here. What was I thinking being so tardy.

Posted by: psps23 | February 18, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Colts Released Marvin Harrison from PFT.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 19, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

redmv:"GUYS LIKE STRAHAN, there aren't too many DEs like him. Dudes' a HOF'er and was I think between 270-280, I believe, which makes him ten to TWENTY pounds more than Orakpo - next agrument please..."

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but Michael Strahan is another one of those athletes who is listed in the program as a lot bigger than he actually is. Something they joke about on Fox, particularly Bradshaw. Michael looks about Terry's size, maybe 6'2", and probably played at a lot closer to 250 than 280. Even in the 'steroids era', which as far as I can tell continues to this day.

Another guy who wasn't as big as listed was the marvelous Reggie White. The program insisted he was six-five and two-eighty, but I recall standing next to him and thinking he had maybe an inch on my own six-two... there were guys who were actually bigger than listed (I would include Jacoby and Dave Butz) but a whole lot of rushers who were smaller. Guess they wanted that psychological impact working for them...

It's speed, kemo sabe, that makes the pass rush. These guys know that. They don't even wear hip and thigh pads anymore, because they're concerned it slows them down. Probably all in their minds, but that's how they feel about the importance of an extra quarter-second or so.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 19, 2009 1:20 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2: "That's is the absolute truth, all either of them ever do is insult, condescend, and basically be utterly aggravating. Can't remember the last time either one of them said "here's an idea...." they just enjoy sitting back and sniping at everyone else."

Welcome to the Internet. I like to say there are only two types of posts in the blogosphere: "You SUCK!!" and everything else.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 19, 2009 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Orakpo? LOL. The Skins will be looking for a few average speed receivers they can trade out of the first round and take in the second.

Posted by: josettes | February 19, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Just ignore'em. They're harmless. It's Flounder/JLC that confounds me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 18, 2009 10:13 PM |

What are you talking about so I know wether or not, to be offended.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 6:18 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

If they can cut a future hall of famer, then the Skins should be ready to cut everyone they need too.

COLTS TO CUT MARVIN SOON
Posted by Mike Florio on February 18, 2009, 10:15 p.m. EST
In a move that has developed a feel of inevitability, the Indianapolis Colts soon will be parting ways with receiver Marvin Harrison.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the move will be made at some point before the start of the 2009 league year.

The problem is that Harrison has a $13.4 million cap figure for 2009. A full $7 million results from his base salary; thus, cutting him will create $7 million in cap space.

It’s possible that Harrison could dramatically reduce his salary and stick around. But there has been no talk along these lines.

If released, Harrison would become an unrestricted free agent. It remains to be seen whether another team would be interested, given his knee problems from the 2007 season and the lingering allegation that he fired a gun at another person on a Philadelphia street last year.

Before the 2007 season, Harrison was on pace to break all of Jerry Rice’s career receiving records, if he had continued to perform at a high level for several more years.

Regardless, Harrison has done more than enough to land in the Hall of Fame — even if at some point he lands in jail.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 6:22 AM | Report abuse

This place has become such a hangout for angry juvenile delinquents. That said, I think zjack beat bgreg in yesterday's rumble on the playground. Name-calling (e.g., dummy, moron) is a clear sign of "I got nothing".

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

God I miss this place :-(

Bloddy stupid bloody work has now got the site blocked :-(

It makes blogging sober almost impossible!

Posted by: kost52 | February 19, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

It makes blogging sober almost impossible!

Posted by: kost52 | February 19, 2009 7:44 AM
=============================================
I don't know why anyone would want to blog sober?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | February 19, 2009 7:51 AM | Report abuse

flounder

'...What are you talking about so I know wether or not, to be offended...'

No offense meant.

Moe is not the hating type, unless, of course, a Red Sux or Cow-homo-boy fan is involved.

I also hate people who get on this blog and just tear people down without ever offering anything for positive commentary--or even a joke to change the pace of this thing.

One day, I have to learn to hit 'preview' before 'submit'-- a word I hear often in my day job in the dominatrix side of the sex industry.

Did that joke change the pace of this thing? Doubt it.

I was in the middle of 'procuring' music from the internet and blogging all at the same time, and wasn't thinking clearly....

...like I ever do.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Kost,

Not much to miss here. It's an eternal 'Lite beer from Miller' advertisement. One side that screams less filling and the other side that screams tastes great. Like it can't be both.

O-line! D-line! Vinny Sucks! No Dan Sucks worse! Okay Dan sucks but JLC sucks! No Cork sucks but only corks, etc. etc.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 19, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

t_evaluator

'...I was up here with an idea about Dre' Bly. My idea was that the 'Skins would go after him...'


This was yesterday's chatter.

I'm with you on this one.

We get a guy who can come in, cover the slot receiver or fast tight end, and knows the AFC West.

If he has to start, he can, but he won't have to.

Think of this: Hall-Rogers-Bly-Smoot.

All corners who can cover and allow the fron 7 of a defense to attack without regard to what's happening when the ball is in the air.

He allows the team to cut Springs and feel it has a more than capable vet as a fourth corner, even if he might not be in his prime.

But like I said, this was yesterday's chatter.

And today, the same people will pull out their long knives and condemn without cleverly explaining why.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Hurry up and cut some players already!

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | February 19, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Moe - If Springs is cut, I'm all for Bly at a vet min. We need a body at that spot anyway, he wouldn't be taking the place of a lineman or something. We can draft a CB in 2010 to replace him, and a CB in 2011 to replace Smoot.

I'm itching for change - at this point I almost don't care which direction - I just don't want to go into 2009 with all the same old veterans.

I posted yesterday how we have 18 guys on the gameday roster who are at least 32 or are going on their 10th year in the league. Thats FAR too much.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 19, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Posters calling names on RI?! I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | February 19, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Posters calling names on RI?! I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | February 19, 2009 9:27 AM

Ha. You`re not shocked at all. You`re a liar.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

'...18 guys on the gameday roster who are at least 32 or are going on their 10th year in the league...'


This begs the following question: We know the Chiefs are supposed to be the youngest team in the league, are the Skins the oldest?

And if we are the oldest, does it mean a couple of 3-13 seasons brought on from roster turnover are somewhere in the future?

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I dont think I would mind a 3-13 season next season if it meant we were putting ourself in place for a run under JC - building up a young, dominant line on both sides of the ball and developing our WRs.

We have a young secondary in place, good TEs, a good WR corp if Kelly and Thomas pan out (and if we pick up a FA WR), and CP has a good few years left if we can get a complement to him.

Riggo was punishing guys when he was 34 - CP isn't as physical but he can definitely carry the load if its not ALL on him.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 19, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

'...CP isn't as physical but he can definitely carry the load if its not ALL on him...'


The issue I have with the thinking that CP is our savior is that most teams prefer to use backs in tandem, and thus, turn their savior/running back into a disciple who fits what they do rather than his having to have the ball so much.

An unanswered question the other day was: does a team really need a dominant running back in today's NFL?

I don't think so.

Redskins fans still think it's 1986 and the power running game is what's happening because, well, they play in the NFC East.

But the stillers, pats, and iggles, play in the cold weather east too, and they throw more than they run.

The power running game as a potent force died as the league made rule changes that facilitated wide open passing attacks.

What a team needs now are athletic o-lineman and a slot receiver who attacks open-space in the middle of the field. This final point is where Randle El has failed the skins.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

There are some things I hear about the Redskins front office that just amaze me. What would it hurt to pull each player aside and let them know the plan for them? Honesty is the best policy and if a player is on the bubble, the player should know. A policy of leaving them hanging has got to get around and I cannot believe that any player wants to play for a team that has such wanton disrespect for the players.

Having said that, Hall, Evans and Fincher should be priorities. The day a deal is struck with Hall should be the day the team says good-bye to the oft-gimpy Springs. Ditto with Daniels once Evans is re-signed. Ditto with Washington the day that Fincher is re-signed. This team needs players that can practice every day and play every week. Great players who stay injured half of the time are not great players.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | February 19, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

te- got me, I am, in fact not shocked - I would be shocked only if we engaged in polite, civil conversation - and then I'd be bored...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | February 19, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Moe - we definitely need a tandem, and Betts isn't cutting it anymore. Hes a decent swing guy out of the backfield, but hes not a true #2 RB. Not fast enough or strong enough.

I don't think EVERY Team needs a dominant run game, but our passing game isn't good enough (see, offensive line) to where we can forsake the ground game. The better our running game works, the less pressure on JC and the WR corps.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 19, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm The Truth, baby!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | February 19, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

To all of the posters who think we absolutely must pick offensive linemen at the top of the draft, the points I have been trying to make are:

1. Buges likes Rabach. If we draft a center in the 1st or 2nd round, he's going to get paid 1st or 2nd round money, which means he better be starting. Buges sounds like he doesn't want to start a rookie over Rabach.

2. If we release Taylor, Washington, and Springs, we have no strong-side linebacker. In addition, Rocky McIntosh has shown that he wears down as the season progresses. London Fletcher isn't getting any younger, either. So unless you want to be playing the 2nd half of the schedule next year with HB Blades, Khary Campbell, and Alfred Fincher as your linebacking corps, we have to find an LB in the draft or free-agency (assuming the FO is bright enough to re-sign Campbell, one of our best special teams players).

3. Philip Daniels is going to have a tough time coming back. An Achilles tendon injury is hard for anyone to come back from, but if your in your mid-thirties it is often a career-ending injury. That's why I hope they re-sign Evans. If they don't, we have no DE on the roster who can play the strong-side (not because they are not big enough, but because they are not strong and fast enough).

Therefore, I get the feeling that Buges and Zorn and Cerato feel they can get by another year with Samuels, Rabach, Randy Thomas, and Stephon Heyer as starters. They may sign Kendall to a 1-year deal and keep him a starter, too (for as long as he holds up on his gimpy knees). Then they have Rhinehart to back up the guards and they can re-work Jansen's salary to keep him around as a backup for 1 more year.

Even though I agree that we need good young offensive linemen, I'm not convinced the FO sees it the same way. So when you post that we have to draft OL's with the majority of our picks, my point is that it may not go down that way.

My other point is that we have real needs on the defense, too. I think the strong-side DE and LB postions are going to be vacant, and we may not even have Evans.

4. I think they will keep Griffin at least 1 more year. Zorn, in an interview, praised Griffin as the hardest worker on the team. He gets injured because they need a 4th DT to play in a rotation. They should re-sign Montgomery and Golston, but they need another guy at DT.

Therefore, on defense they need to re-sign Evans and Campbell, acquire a strong-side LB, another strong-side DE, and a 4th DT.

Since they are up against the cap and have so few draft choices, they cannot fill all of their needs. Don't assume they are going to draft 3 OLs, even if its what they should do.

I'd also point out that they need a 2nd string FB to back up Sellers, which has been a need for at least 2 years.

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | February 19, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

They can't possibly ignore the olines again can they?

If they sign a young guard and a guy like Carey at tackle then I definitely understanding not picking oline. But they can't possibly just ignore it again, they've gone above and beyond ignoring up till now and we're way past due for new blood on the oline, they have to know that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

The old axiom that the blog is "more fun in the off season" is completely dead. At least during the season it is acceptable to have boiling blood and angst.

Now it just further explains why talk radio is full of erectile dysfunction adds. They have done their market research...

"I used to be scared of intimacy...)

Dudes, lighten the fcuk up already jeesh!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

can someone cue up Beantown's

"Do you have some links to back up your erectile dysfunction advertising claims, b/c if not your lying to support your arguement and should consider sitting in your car with the gas running"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

TE, ... you ... are extremely insulting an condescending in your responses

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 18, 2009 9:46 PM

You`re right, I have been. I apologize. I`ll try to avoid that with you and with other posters.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Reading through the comments regarding interaction with fellow bloggers, I just want to say that I'm a fan of the dramatics.

It's cool for good-spirited beef - as long as you know which lines not to cross, especially if you've had a few back and forth with the opposing blogger. Name calling is not only okay, hell I encourage it. Most people I think that blog on here during the day are at work, or working from home I assume.

I don't know, I just like to laugh a little here and there, and two grown adults squabbling like little children at recess is funny to me, even when I'm involved. Hey lets face it, if you are at work, and you're blogging on here, your job isn't all that interesting or keeping you busy like that. Plainly put: RI satisfies the boredom at work and provides constant comic relief by many of you fine folks, well some of you.

With that said, a hearty good afternoon to that crackbaby known as TheTurd11.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

TE, if your serious, thank you and apology accepted. lets move on...

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

'...I'm The Truth, baby!...'


And I'm A-Rod's cousin.

I'm rather handy with a needle, as you might imagine.

When I'm not sticking it in A-Rod, I'm sticking it to the fans.

In fact, when you really think about it, it seems that someone has been sticking more than a needle in A-Rod's backside.

How does my $300 million cousin whine about the heart-rendering stresses of admitting to using 'roids during a time when many folks are losing their homes?

I asked him about this the other day, and he asked, with his pants dropped to his ankles, "Are you sure that's a needle you're sticking in me?"

I guess stress is what you make it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I`ll try to avoid that with you and with other posters.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 11:41 AM

Except ChRiS laRrY. F chRis LarRy. As soon as my e/d meds come in the mail.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Red, I agree that name calling is fine but the problem is that there are lines, everyones line is different and you have to learn those and respect them.

Oh and never go after anyone family.


Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Red, I think at heart I feel you, but if beefing is done in a stale, wash rinse repeat fashion it just becomes stale.

Also if it is over the same topics (rookie wideouts/4-3/3-/JLA sux/Vinny sux) it gets staler than farts in a sofa cushion.

I swear most of the "beefers" have a word document with the same 7-9 lines to copy n paste.

I guess I am just fatigued with RI. And will continue to post/check less. For me, the fun is gone.

I do enjoy your salty cutdowns however even when on recieving end.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

could I have used stale more times in 2 sentences....foul on me.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Since there is no inside information lately how about we list the best yo mama jokes you have heard

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 19, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Call me a social media two-timer, but i have been getting an old school charge out of Cindy's Redskin Insider tweets. Funny, observant, timely and diverse...

I am fan.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Poor Red, so bored while making licenses for his former high-school classmates who have gone on to become successful playas like myself.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | February 19, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

can someone cue up Beantown's
"Do you have some links to back up your erectile dysfunction advertising claims, b/c if not your lying to support your arguement and should consider sitting in your car with the gas running"
Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:40 AM
Man, are you dumb….if you had any sort of erectile dysfunction knowledge you would know that they do 99% of their advertising on the internet via pop-ups (pun anyone?). Nobody listens to the radio anymore, except for stupid old people like TE and Corky. Try again….

Dogpile on Beantown!!!!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Done CL.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

The old axiom that the blog is "more fun in the off season" is completely dead. At least during the season it is acceptable to have boiling blood and angst.

Now it just further explains why talk radio is full of erectile dysfunction adds. They have done their market research...

"I used to be scared of intimacy...)

Dudes, lighten the fcuk up already jeesh!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 11:38 AM

The blog isn't what it was when you first started posting, and isn't the same when I started either - I think I probably started that trend of bloggers most people dislike on RI.

Eh, oh well.

I know most people think I'm the worst (Ask me do I care), the thing is they'll never come out and say it, they'd rather come up with stupid "all-star blooger" lists and crown their favorites. Like I said, that jerkoff that dropped that list would probably post that one thing and never most anything again, in fact they haven't posted again.

New players, old game. The blog is still an aiight place, it's jsut different.

To me is less corny now, way less.

But LOL'd at the radio advertisement comment you made, CL.

If you're angry all the time, look for dissimilar pleasure, or similar if that's your thing, or hey, try mono pleasure if independency is your thing.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I have a question for Red and some others that I see have done this...how do you get words to bold? Seriously....honest question. I can't seem to find that little trick. Do you have be on that "twitter" thingy or something?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Happy to not have ant ED knowledge...

I still love the radio, and yes I am getting old...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze, do you know how to hand write basic HTML? Thats how you can do bold and italics bold is a b inside the arrow keys and you end bold with a /b inside arrow keys italics is i /i I cant write it in here because anything inside of arrows is invisible on the blog

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"I have a question for Red and some others that I see have done this...how do you get words to bold? Seriously....honest question. I can't seem to find that little trick. Do you have be on that "twitter" thingy or something?

Posted by: dlhaze1 "


that's only for the "cool regulars". Guys like you and me can't do that cause we aren't "cool regulars" like Red.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | February 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"Ant" ED knowledge meant any...but ant ED is sorta funny...

If we could just make the little buggers limp we would all have cleaner kitchens!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Vinny just said on DOC's show that O-Line, D-Line and LB are the most important positions were looking at.

It's a miracle.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

that's cool regulars to you, sir.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 19, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

btw, I suck at html

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

He said they will be well under the cap by Thursday. He did not specify how.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

nice etrod..

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Vinny just said on DOC's show that O-Line, D-Line and LB are the most important positions were looking at.

It's a miracle.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse


Hold on, that doesn't mean that's what they'll draft. They're just the most important positions they're looking at.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 19, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Vinny just said on DOC's show that O-Line, D-Line and LB are the most important positions were looking at.

It's a miracle.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

to bad vinny's strategy is draft for talent....

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

O.E.

A man can dream can't he.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Happy to not have ant ED knowledge...

I still love the radio, and yes I am getting old...

Posted by: chrislarry

Getting old. Your a** is old. LOL

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 19, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

zj,

Lets hope he sees the light.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Alex!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

lol @ old people

Posted by: TheTruth11 | February 19, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

JM220, don't make me have to kick your azz again...it is getting sad....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Consider this: We have eight out of eleven offensive linemen on our current roster, all with under four years of experience. That's probably all of the light Vinny C needs to see.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

“It's nice to eat a good hunk of beef but you want a light dessert, too.” - Arthur Fiedler

Traslation: It's okay to be cranky and moody, but dammit go f@&k somethin'...

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

JM220, don't make me have to kick your azz again...it is getting sad....

Posted by: chrislarry

LOL bring it CL. How is the baby doing?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 19, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Eight out of thirteen, I forgot to include the two guards, OLinemen are in their fourth year or less.

Posted by: matthewvickers | February 19, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Great JM! She is a trip. JM have you seen the Wrestler yet?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

No CL I haven't. Is it any good?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 19, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Jason wrote: "so it would be silly for him to do much more than to thank these guys for their service and express a desire to have some back" No Jason, it would not. The only thing 'silly' about the situation is your comment.

Zorn's the Head Coach for crying out-loud. If he can't tell a player one-on-one "I hope we're able to bring you back; you're a real asset to this team", there's something terribly wrong in Ashburn. After all, sincerely conveying that might soften the blow if some of the free agents can't brought back for cap reasons, and might keep them from being as bitter as Pierce, Clark, and Bailey.

Posted by: JHG_sec405 | February 19, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

For those of you wondering why I would
Choose this forum to ask
how to
respond to other
inane posters using bold face type, let me just
say that I have always wanted to
Let loose with a good old fashioned
artillery barrage of eff you’s to a
really well known guy up here, but he
recently had a kid, and lives in New
York, so I just couldn’t do it.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

IFTTDGY, is the one who wasn't shelfish with his knowledge like a lot of web and tech savy people are - he schooled me on the html thing, but O_E, how did you get the bold and italics?

This html stuff is new to me, and sometimes I still goof it up.

Truth, you really need to see a therapist, then see a MD, like a psychiatrist. Have a few sessions with both of them, and tell them that the little "exercises" they've prescribed aren't working - eventually they'll give you the "good stuff;)", and you'll find upon taking it all the love you've never received, or still haven't received yet, besides, you know, that mono thing that you're currently doing to fill that void.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Happy to not have ant ED knowledge...

I still love the radio, and yes I am getting old...

Posted by: chrislarry


Holy Shti! Now ants can get ED? And they have a medication for it???

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 19, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze1 that was so wrong. LMAO!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 19, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Slow day at work.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

'...how about we list the best yo mama jokes you have heard...'

How about, what's funnier, The Simpsons or Family Guy?

Classic Simpsons and recent Family Guy are, as the young folks say, 'Off Da Chain.'

BTW: 'Hav' you seen my pills....?'

(INSERT Image of Abe Simpson confronting A-Rod's cousin)

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Seriously- don't some of you guys have anything better to do? Especially you RedDMV- Mr. Johnson on the 5th floor needs a new stapler- pronto son!

Posted by: richard_cranium | February 19, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

nice acrostic dhaze, love it!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

There is a list on ESPN of the worst contracts ever given and gues who's team makes the list several times.

Thanks FO

The current Family guy is funnier


yo mama joke

your mama so dumb she thought St.Ides was a catholic church.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 19, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse


Speaking of bad owners...

I got free tickets and went to the Clippers-Suns game last night. The Clips are owned by Donald Sterling. Sterling is being sued by his former GM Elgin Baylor for racial discrimiantion. He has a another related lawsuit working regarding some property he owns. Sports Illustrated selected him the worse owner IN SPORTS some years back.

I demand a recount.

The pathetic Clippers have much in common with the pathetic 'skins, altho the 'skins, by dint of talent on hand and a more open policy with the owners wallet in the past, are better for now.

But Sterling, while he talks a good game, is a bottom line guy. Like Snyder, he's locked up his wallet during the current recession.

His stadium is full of flash and dazzle, noise and frenetic motion designed to distract from the low quality of he product on the field.

And like Sterling, the fans are starting to notice the stench.

If SI voted to day, I'm pretty sure the Redskins DS could give LA's DS a run for worst Owner.


Posted by: TheCork | February 19, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

well played, dl.

moe, 'Off Da Chain' is so '97. the preferred term is 'off the meters'.

dick_crain, could you just slit your wrists (vertically, not diagonally), drink a vile of cyanide, introduce your brains to a hollow point bullet, accquaint your neck with a 6' rope, or if you don't have rope, your double sided belt would suffice - GO AWAY, and take your crackbaby son, TheTurd11 with you.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

+++Whoa, whoa, whoa. You lose the argument in the first sentence when you say "the fact that Buges allegedly..." Putting any JLC report from an inside "source" after the phrase "the fact that" is probably not going to get it done. How many times does JLC, um I mean this "source," have to be proven wrong before we all get the point? ++---CPortisRUN


Sniff sniff? Whats' that I smell? I believe it's the stench of Vinny's desperation in the air. He keeps geting his stooges to come up with new screen names and try to get his WP tormenter fired.

Nah...I'm just trying to get "MrRedskin21" to rise out of his cesspool and grace the board with one of his witty retorts.

But "CPortis"...I dont' see you shouting "Scoreboard!" and pointing at all the minutes of playing time Rhinehart amassed last year.

The guy was a THIRD ROUND pick and couldnt' even got on the field to play SPECIAL TEAMS? And you're ripping a reporter?

Nope, the guy to rip is the MORON who drafted him, and tell your boss I said so.


Posted by: TheCork | February 19, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The Simpsons used to be funny as hell, now it just comes off as corny and FCC shook...

Family Guy is the best, I don't care what the South Park heads have to say - If you got to go out of your way to mention your comp, then your competition is doing better than you.

I've never heard of Family Guy taking a shot at The Simpsons, South Park, or King of the Hill.

But I do recall seeing Hank on Family Guy saying "Propane" and that's all, and I remember Homer getting ran over by the car, and Peter opening up the door and saying "saying who the hell is that", oh and one time they made fun of animation on South Park by having the characters on FG move around like they do on SP.

Funniest Family Guy characters, IMO, in order:

Joe Swanson
Chris Griffin
Glen Quagmire
Peter Griffin
Cleveland Brown
Brian
Stewie


This may be messed up, but... the old man pedophile is funny as sh*t to me - he only targets Chris Griffin, and has this lisp whistle when he talks - too damn funny!

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

+++1. Buges likes Rabach. If we draft a center in the 1st or 2nd round, he's going to get paid 1st or 2nd round money, which means he better be starting. Buges sounds like he doesn't want to start a rookie over Rabach.+++--RB Freedom

Easy solution and not my idea,. In the Senior Bowl a number of college centers were used at Guard and did quite well, Mack and Woods among them. One could be used to replace Kendall and move to center when Buges or Rabach leaves.

I happen to believe those making excuses for drafting another undersized DE in the first round (Orakpo) are ignoring the fact the defensive line is better off than the OL, which is at the point of collapse.

Posted by: TheCork | February 19, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

GROSS DEAL DONE
Posted by Mike Florio on February 19, 2009, 12:56 p.m.
The Carolina Panthers have finalized a long-term contract with tackle Jordan Gross.

According to Darin Gantt of the Rock Hill Herald, the deal is done.

Gantt’s source is Gross himself, who said, “We’re done.”

Look for the Panthers’ next action to be the application of the franchise tag to defensive end Julius Peppers, making him the 13th recipient of the restriction this year.

Posted by: bigfish761 | February 19, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"This may be messed up, but... the old man pedophile is funny as sh*t to me - he only targets Chris Griffin, and has this lisp whistle when he talks - too damn funny!"

uh, ya Red that does sound messed up.

Red's momma is so fat the back of her neck looks like a package of hotdogs.

Posted by: richard_cranium | February 19, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Red,
Nothing wrong with FG, SP or The Simps. Though I agree Simpsons has run its course. But the best cartoons are on Adult Swim now, for my money there is no 3 better than; Frisky Dingo, Metalocolypse and Venture Brothers. Because they are on late night cable the FCC does not seem to care what they do. Hell Frisky Dingo's mane character was wandering around for episodes naked with genitals drawn on him.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I see dick crainy brought the mamas out... the old mama jokes at that.

i'll bite.

richard_cranium's mama is so fat she's on both sides of the family.

*ding*

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

was anybody else sad to see Bironas got extended in TN. I had kinda hoped he'd end up in burgundy and gold, so tired of having bad kickers and punters.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

alex, I'll have to check those out.

Shame on me for forgetting The Boondocks, first animation series that includes content like that.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

yo mama so fat that when she was born she gave the hospital stretch marks

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 19, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

They could have run Boondocks another 8-10 episodes, thats the one problem with that netowork they run series out too short.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

ASOMUGHA CONTRACT IN LEAGUE’S HANDS
Posted by Mike Florio on February 19, 2009, 1:19 p.m.

The deal between the Raiders and cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha is nearly done.

Per Jim Trotter of SI.com, the contract is in the hands of the NFL’s Management Council, which reviews every contract for approval.

Trotter reports that Asomugha will receive $26 million in guaranteed money over the first two years of the deal, which approximates the money he’d receive under the franchise tag for this season and next.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

'...GROSS DEAL DONE...'

Another player crossed off the skins fans blogga wish list.

Let's see who's left:

Mercury Morris
Clay Matthews, sr.
Jackie Slater
Ahmad Rashad
Bob Greise
Mel Blount
Terry Metcalf
Roy Green
Christian Okoye
Bob Hayes
Jim Marshall

The last pick, Marshall, will help solidify the de position that bloggas have been complaining about.

If I remember, he and Orakpo weigh about the same: 260 lbs.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

zj, no way Brionas was going to walk from TEN. Lechler got re-signed also I heard.

Teams that have good young kickers, should sign them long term. Hate to bring up a Madden reference or comparison, but if I get a kicker that is 31 or younger and his overall is at 94 or higher, I sign those guys to 7 years (max) contracts.

Kickers are just too much of an enigma to roll the dice on them like that. If you have a bama with a boot, lock 'em up.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

alex, does Clerks still come on? I haven't DVR'd it yet, is it any good?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

LOL... Terry Metcalf

Was he as any good as Eric Metcalf?

What happend to Terry Kriby, Mel Gray... has anyone heard about Dave Meggett recently?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Clay Matthews....ha. If Joe Gibbs were still running things you could bet the rent that he would somehow find a way to draft Clay Matthews' son out of USC. He loved to pick up family players, didn't he? Jst the ones that I can think of off the top of my head:
Keith Griffin
Jamie Morris
HB Blades
I know I am missing some....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Dave Megget's kid plays RB for MD....looks pretty good too. A future Giibs pick no doubt....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Andre Carter
Shawn Springs
I know there are more....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

is anybody else shocked by what's going on with Peppers? He's a NC guy played two sports at UNC has been given nothing but love by the franchise and state, has been on a few really good teams has gone to a Super Bowl and they just won the division and he is griping to get out of a team and a system that has made him a star. I'm kind of shocked, he doesn't get how good he has it, and how bad a fit he is in a 3-4.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

JORDAN GROSS - signed. Good, we won't overpay for him.

Can we look into Vernon Carey, or Jason Brown? It would be nice if Stacey Andrews was healthy.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 19, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

What about Jonathan Vilma?

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 19, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

'...is anybody else shocked by what's going on with Peppers?...'


Peppers is looking fo a final payday.

He'll be wearing panthas colors come this Sept.

But like you, I wonder about his beefing.

Why not take what will be good money from the panthas knowing you're on a playoff team that's just a second wide receiver away from dominatin'?

This is where pro athletes get me.

I 'd want to win and make money as opposed to be the highest paid league guy on a losing team.

Peppers thinks he's Jason Taylor without the dance moves.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2


Peppers doesnt have the right to move on or try a new system?

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 19, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Question:

If you get a job out of college and the company that you are with takes a chance on you and you make money and make the company alot of money for you company. lets say that you have been there for about 9 years and you have won many awards and you decide that you want to test your skills with another company. even though you company is a top company do you have the right to leave for a challenge or do you stay because that company has been good to you and you have made alot of money?

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 19, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Dave Meggett is currently returning kicks (and probably punches) for the South Carolina Correctional Institution Fightin' Rapists.

Not a good guy.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 19, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I mean sure anybody has that right, but IMHO when your a star on a winning team with a bright future in your home state, how does it get much better than that, hard to imagine any situation that is going to be an upgrade...

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Dave Meggett is a something what you call a turd bag.

This isn't concluded by his love soliciting prostitutes, robbery, or his delinquency in child support payments, but by the sheer fact he's from Charleston, SC.

Seems like a lot of turd bag breeding going on down there.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey everyone! Long time no blog. I've had some spare time on my hands so I'm going to post some info about the Skin's last 3 drafts (ala Vinny didn't do so bad). Please bear with me, some of the posts may be lengthy, but I hope they're informative.

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Peppers wants to play in Dallas. I think every NFL star, who didn't grow up as a 'skins, eagles, giants, or steelers fan, wants to play for Dallas.

Like the Yankees and Lakers.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Peppers is looking fo a final payday.

I 'd want to win and make money as opposed to be the highest paid league guy on a losing team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 2:17 PM

These guys have a pretty limited chance to make money. They don't have a job like Moe that they can make a living into their nineties on. Besides, Peppers thinks he can have it both -- big bucks as a free agent plus end up on a team better than the Panthers. Remember he has a short list that excludes the Redskins. Also, Charlotte NC has to be one of the most depressing cities anywhere to live in right now.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I love and loathe draft season...

Posted by: RedDMV | February 19, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

My sources for most of this info were profootballweekly.com (PFW) and nfldraftcountdown.com (NFLDC).

2006 Draft

Read as follows:
Round/Player/Grade/Where the grade places them per PFW/NFLDC Positional Rank/NFLDC Overall Rank/PFW Positional Rank/PFW Overall Rank

2/McIntosh/5.95/Legitimate 2nd round/7/50/7/37
5/Montgomery/5.00/Top FA-could be drafted/33/NR/29/NR
6/Doughty/4.90/Priorty FA-could be drafted/26/294/13/NR
6/Golston/5.19/6th round/18/219/16/214
7/Lefotu/4.55/Solid FA-outside chance to make team/NR/NR/50/NR
7/Simon/5.20/5th or 6th rounder/15/300/18/207

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

My sources for most of this info were profootballweekly.com (PFW) and nfldraftcountdown.com (NFLDC).

2007 Draft

Read as follows:
Round/Player/Grade/Where the grade places them per PFW/NFLDC Positional Rank/NFLDC Overall Rank/PFW Positional Rank/PFW Overall Rank

1/Landry/6.55/Sure 1st rounder/1/6/1/7
5/Sartz/5.10/7th rounder/14/161/18/NR
6/Blades/5.25/4th or 5th round/7/129/7/155
6/Palmer/5.20/5th or 6th round/11/200/11/185
6/Ecker/5.05/Top FA-could be drafted/19/NR/19/NR

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying he can't cool your jets all I said was I'm kinda surprised.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 19, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

My sources for most of this info were profootballweekly.com (PFW) and nfldraftcountdown.com (NFLDC).

2008 Draft

Read as follows:
Round/Player/Grade/Where the grade places them per PFW/NFLDC Positional Rank/NFLDC Overall Rank/PFW Positional Rank/PFW Overall Rank

2/Thomas/6.12/1st round-starter by 2nd season/1/21/2/24
2/Davis/5.40/3rd round/4/74/6/95
2/Kelly/5.70/2nd round/7/61/9/50
3/Rinehart/5.15/6th round/9/153/21/210
4/Tryon/5.20/5th or 6th round/25/214/24/207
6/Brooks/5.37/4th round/1/180/1/123
6/Moore/5.10/7th round/27/NR/10/NR
6/Brennan/5.09/Top FA-could be drafted/9/151/17/NR
7/Jackson/5.00/Top FA-could be drafted/31/NR/32/NR
7/Horton/5.05/Top FA-could be drafted/20/NR/15/NR

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

That 2007 draft: ouch!!!!!

But do you to do us a real favor?

Go back and look at the drafts conducted under Spineless Sprurrier/St Joe's regimes.

The 2002-2005 drafts plus FA are the reason why we are in the place we are in now.

Which is in the bottom looking up.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

So Peppers is tagged and that gets him an offer of $16.7 million. What does Carolina do if he signs? That's a lot of bucks in one big guy.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

2006 thru 2008 Draft Summary:

1) Because of poor trades we missed out on some younger players that we could have had longer than the older players we got in the trade.
2) Others beside Vinny had our players ranked about the same.
3) We got 4 starters (Landry, McIntosh, Reed/Horton and Golston/Montgomery), 3 potential starters (Thomas, Kelly, Davis), and a couple of backups out of 21 spots (6 no longer on the team).
4) Less than 50% but when you look at other players available at the time we had to select, most probably wouldn't recogonize the other players (and I haven't seen many of them in the league).
5) I imagine other teams have about the same track record when it comes to the draft.

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

Not enough data on those websites to go back that far for a good comparison. Wish I could, but I agree that 02 to 05 were some lean years.

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Sniff sniff? Whats' that I smell? I believe it's the stench of Vinny's desperation in the air. He keeps geting his stooges to come up with new screen names and try to get his WP tormenter fired.

Nah...I'm just trying to get "MrRedskin21" to rise out of his cesspool and grace the board with one of his witty retorts.

But "CPortis"...I dont' see you shouting "Scoreboard!" and pointing at all the minutes of playing time Rhinehart amassed last year.

The guy was a THIRD ROUND pick and couldnt' even got on the field to play SPECIAL TEAMS? And you're ripping a reporter?

Nope, the guy to rip is the MORON who drafted him, and tell your boss I said so.

Posted by: TheDork | February 19, 2009 1:04 PM |


Of course, Corky, the hundreds of users that have all posted in condemnation of LaCantwriteforshtta's agenda-driven, constantly negative, and usually false, reports are all Redskin employees... Based on that logic, you must be JLC's Mom. I challenge you to argue the point I made yesterday rather than fall back on your crutch of the old convenient "Redskins employee" accusation, but of course, we all know you have no valid argument. That's right, Corky, the Redskins are laying off scores of employees in critical areas such as Sales and Accounting, as well as some administrative staff so that they can pay hundreds of people to spend all day posting on some blog that less and less people read every day. Hi, I'm Earth, have we met?
Then, all you come back with to make your "point" is that a rookie 3rd round offensive lineman we drafted didn't really play last season? Wow, case closed, you win! I made a point about the non-moves with respect to Evans and Campbell, and how JLC was putting his usual spin on it and distorting the truth. I don't think there is any argument against the obvious contradictions and inconsistencies in opinions that I pointed out, and you have confirmed this for me, thank you. I stated an opinion and offered several sound premises in support of my conclusion, but your only response is that Chad Rhinehart didn't play last season? Wow. I wish there were more attorneys out there with your intellect; it would sure make winning that much easier.

Posted by: CPortisRun | February 19, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

'...They don't have a job like Moe that they can make a living into their nineties on...'


And what sort of job do you believe I hold, kind sir?

And as for working into my nineties, I'll respond to that comment once I switch into a fresh set of adult diapers.

Some time ago, a guy named Samson asked if I was Larry King.

Think of it: Samson thinks Moe is a king.

I guess, t_evaluator, he and your wife hold the same opinion about me. :)))))

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

2009 Draft:

Based on this data and team needs, I tried to project the upcoming draft (all based on pre-combine grades).

My sources for most of this info were profootballweekly.com (PFW) and nfldraftcountdown.com (NFLDC).

Read as follows:
Round/Player/POS/Grade/Where the grade places them per PFW/NFLDC Positional Rank/NFLDC Overall Rank/PFW Positional Rank/PFW Overall Rank

1/Michael Oher/OT/6.30/1st round-starter by 2nd season/4/13/3/18
3/Marcus Freeman/OLB/5.50/late 2nd or 3rd round/5/81/8/74
5/Lawrence Sidbury/DE/5.30/4th round/14/NR/NR/139
6/Ryan Succop/K/5.09/Top FA-could be drafted/3/NR/3/NR

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

RITCA thanks for the posts. I'm not sure how much it means because each draft board is different I'm sure. However, if I'm reading the 2008 draft post correctly only 2 picks were drafted where they were expected to go. The others were reaches. Especially Rinehart who went a full 3 rounds higher than projected. Based on these results, we can't look for much from this draft class.

Posted by: TWISI | February 19, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: CindyBoren | February 19, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Of course, I also looked at other players/positions available (based on rankings) when I selected these players, but they didn't match up with our needs.

Posted by: RITCA | February 19, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: TWISI | February 19, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

And what sort of job do you believe I hold, kind sir?

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 19, 2009 2:55 PM

Well, from the amount you're posting up here I figured you were like me -- one of the Post's professional Blog Facilitators.

Post pays me in the mid 40-s to keep the blog moving, and from the quantity of your output I'm figuring you're taking in something north of 50. Keep it up -- you've been an inspiration to many of us.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Good analysis RB Freedom. However, I'm not sure Bugels' comments about his players are necessarily candid. I do agree that Rabach will be the center this year, but it's his positive comments about Heyer that are dubious to me. I do not think they have a serviceable RT at this point. Worse, they do not have anybody remotely capable of backing up Samuels for when he (inevitably) misses games.

Nobody mentions this, but the skins offense completely falls apart when Samuels is out, so I think the priority needs to be to get a RT who can be moved to LT if Samuels goes out. This is why I think the skins are looking at Jordan Gross if he hasn't been signed yet. I do expect the Panthers to sign him and then tag Peppers. Gross is an excellent LT but has played RT quite a bit. I'd like to see him signed to play RT and then moved to LT when Samuels retires.

I don't see anything radical happening on the D side of the ball, especially now that Dansby has been tagged. I have to believe the skins were looking at him to replace Washington. OLB is the 2nd priority in my view, given Rocky's and Washington's constant injury issues, and also that they have no depth other than slow, converted inside LBs to back them up.

Posted by: sysadb420 | February 19, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

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