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Referee Explains Call

Referee Walt Coleman explains the punt-fumble call: "What happened was, the two guys were blocking each other. The Washington guy got blocked into his own man, so there was no interference. All we had to figure out who touched it first. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and not trying to block, then he can't do that. If they are both trying to block, then he can knock him into him. Because they were both engaged, then that's why there wasn't a foul or anything wrong with that play. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and the Carolina player had come down there and knocked him, then it would have been totally different."

By Rick Maese  |  October 11, 2009; 5:21 PM ET
 
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Comments

That ref sucks a$$. Miss calls all day. Skins didn't play great, but the refs were definately homers today.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 11, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Season's down the tube because Wesbrook couldn't block. Bummer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 11, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

exactly.....stop complaining on that one call that wasn't a bad call, it was a bad play by Westbrook......blame our 190 yards of offense and 3 points other than what the defense did.....blame 57 yards on 19 carries against the worst run defense in the league....blame a Devin Thomas drop when we would have been in FG range.....blame Dhall not being able to tackle the perhaps slowest QB in the league......blame Blache for allowing Smith to run free in zone coverage all afternoon......blame the FO for not rebuilding our Oline....but stop blaming that one play that was the right call.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 11, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

==========REPOST....sorry, gang==========
Hey Gang....Well....ya know, I'm listening to Jerry Gray talk about "leaders" in the locker room...Much as I love a guy like Doc Walker, his accolades for oh, say, "Caveman",the "Beast" Mike Sellers-when he's talking him up on air-well, he sure ain't shown me much on the field lately. Not to single out Mike, but we give a lot of our players WAY too much credit individually, only to see 'em come up small time and time again on the field.We're the parents who scream at our kids for screwing up and then when they start to cry-hug 'em and tell 'em we love 'em. PLEASE...all these "we gotta try harder,,,,we got heart,,,,we'll stick together...." and all the other platitudes. I'm. done.with. it.
Fact is, we are stuck with an owner who is gonna be here a LONG time. He is an entrepreneur who will MILK this/us til we stop giving him our hard earned money.When WE stop accepting his narcissistic handling of OUR team....well, maybe then we will see change,,,,have a hope of something more than mediocrity at best and utter contempt for the fans of this team at worst.
...Once again, I'm too steamed to write or think in a coherent way,,,,but really...this is just pitiful. And nothing personal, Al Goldy-but at least in years past after another miserable performance we had Joe Jacoby or Riggo and Andy P to listen to. Frank Herzog,too,for that matter. But Dan owns the station now. I'm trying to refrain from ad hominen attacks.....but this is just sad. And how many commercials can they squeeze in on TV?
The end of the (human) world is near-and our Redskins epitomize what is wrong in the world at large.Hubris,stupidity,pride,greed,false humility,,,,on and on and on.
At this point, as I see it, all we can hope for is to have the Ghosts of Football Past, Present and Future pay a visit to Mr Snidley-er and, as happened with Scrooge and his famous visit with the Christmas ghosts-that he see what the TRUE MEANING of the Redskins in this town...and adjust his actions accordingly....
Now Andre Carter is on Comcast talking about heart and how good the guys are and fighting through ....now, for something NEW and INSIGHTFUL...
Go Skins....
p.s.-sorry, Mr Snyder about that "snide', ad hominen bit....and B. Mitch-we LOVE ya', bro!

Posted by: zendo | October 11, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Diggin' those Broncos throwback uniforms today. They're so ugly they're actually somehow good looking.

Probably the same reason chicks dig Benicio Del Toro.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 11, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

what a dumb explanation... our player was running down the field, not into or towards the Panthers' guy but away from him. It's bologna... fair catch interference. Still, though, Skins gotta play better.

Posted by: mmeixler | October 11, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm done. See you in 4 or 5 years.

I hate the NFL.

Posted by: jgarrisn | October 11, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

The Refs, ja media and fans must be meeting somewhere during the week to figure out new and interesting ways to make the Skins lose....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

The Season is Over for all those dedicated Redskins Fans due to the team being place on IR with season edning surgery being performed on Monday. please send a get well soon card and some flowers to those in Question

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | October 11, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Good teams overcome bad or borderline calls.

Posted by: pokerfaceI208 | October 11, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Do they make the change in HC this week or will JZ be given a stay of execution? Would Gruden take thir job?

Posted by: shanteefamilee | October 11, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

the only player that was engaged in blocking was westbrook...randle el was moving forward to field the ball...bottom line BLOWN CALL..

Posted by: jspen21 | October 11, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure we have anybody worth trading but I would try and get a couple of extra draft picks even if they are late round picks... in hopes that we have someone that can make picks...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Losers blame a loss on the officiating...if the Redskins were even a reasonably good team they would have been up by 14 or more points, but instead they look for excuses. I can still see and 8-8 season, but this train is off the rails. Firing Zorn now, or anytime before the end of the season, essentially means that the rest of the games are being written off. My guess is that he lasts another two weeks, but is fired during the bye week.

Posted by: skipper7 | October 11, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Season's down the tube because Wesbrook couldn't block. Bummer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator


Yeah, cause otherwise we had a real good season ahead of us.

Get a clue.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 11, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

If we blow this team up now, we can ensure a top 5-7 pick next year and get the best OLineman available.... The only hope I have for this team.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

What about Cerrato? Will Synder wake up and reassign his "duties"?

Posted by: shanteefamilee | October 11, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

trade deadline is the 14th , now is the time for a fire sale LOL

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | October 11, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

@jspen21: The call was correct; we're simply not good enough to put away the away the 0-4 Panthers. Just like we weren't good enough to put away the Lions. I'd be angry but what's the point? We have a poorly assembled team, coached by an nice but seemingly over-his-head coach, led by a question mark at QB who spends his sundays running for his life, a life protected by guys no one but their mothers have ever heard of before.

It's not like the 'Skins are good team thats underperfoming; that would be worth getting upset over.

Posted by: AppleScience | October 11, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

the call is NOT the issue...the front office is. Skins fans have been in this ridiculous cycle of one play (or player) making or breaking a season ever since Snyder/Cerrato came to town... Assuming we (I say 'we' because this team is as much the fans as it is the owners/FO personnel/coaches/players) can't get rid of Snyder, then we must get rid of Cerrato and START OVER!!!

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | October 11, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Here is Sherman Lewis' report to Vinny and Dan Snyder.

"I have coached in the west coast offense for more than 22 years and I have been very sucessful. Having said that, I have no idea WTF Zorn is running. It's not a west coast version that i'm aware of, to be honest this offense looks like a cluster fuc$. The only way that it can be fixed is to get rid of Zorn and start over. End of report

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 11, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

All the fairweather fans that chose to change teams and root for that expertly run franchise the Baltimore Ravens. How's that working out for you? Good riddance.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 11, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Like I said, let's just power block a guy on the receiving team into the returner every time and take our chances. What a BS call.

Posted by: rich20ssu | October 11, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

...is Vinnie still taking calls on 980 each week? If so, when? I can't wait.

Posted by: oddjob1 | October 11, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Do we draft an O-lineman in the first or will they go QB?

Posted by: shanteefamilee | October 11, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Michael,

We need a quarteback AND o lineman.

Posted by: rickyroge | October 11, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Do we draft an O-lineman in the first or will they go QB?


Posted by: shanteefamilee | October 11, 2009 5:48 PM =======This out of touch team will probably draft a WR with the first overall pick in 2010.

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 11, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Synder will never fire Cerreto..Ever. The man loves the buffer he creats for blame, and when we get a new coach in a few weeks or end of season, the new coach will need to work with Cerratto, because thats how the Danny can keep pullin the strings.

Posted by: ocskins | October 11, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Thanks again, Cerrato. Because of your lousy picks the Skins do not have an effective offensive line and clearly do not have qualified replacements. Until Dumbo Snyder brings in a qualified General Manager, the Skins will go nowhere.

Posted by: ezman | October 11, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Thanks again, Cerrato. Because of your lousy picks the Skins do not have an effective offensive line and clearly do not have qualified replacements. Until Dumbo Snyder brings in a qualified General Manager, the Skins will go nowhere.

Posted by: ezman | October 11, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

If you saw a truck heading toward Dan Snyder what would you do? or is that too mean?
Posted by: alex35332 | October 11, 2009 5:10

Get a bucket of water, sponge and some soap to help clean up his grill and wipe away any nasty little Danny bits that might be stuck on there? Pretty sure that's the right answer.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

SIGH ... just what I've been saying a long. Now the most valuable player on this offense went down ... just as we all knew he would.

In many posts, well before the draft, even before the "analysis" came out of Redskins Park I warned that this offensive line needed help. That Samuels needed to move to right tackle to preserve and extend his career. That they needed to use this draft (because it was reasonable rich with them) to get a starting left tackle ... by drafting more than 1. The better ones are usually more than athletic enough to play both guard and tackle.

I even had Priest Holmes "channel" it for you. ~laughing~

This isn't on Vinnie. It falls directly and precisely on the shoulders of the GM of the Washington Redskins, Daniel M. Snyder. There is no where to hide Snidely, we predicted this would happen. We predicted you would go out and bring in some defensive superstar instead. And now you have 1 + 2 potentials on that squad. Has it helped? By improving last year's 4ht ranked defense you forced the use of infirm past-their-prime players on the O-line. The use of non-starting caliber free agents. And you blame the QB, and the HC/OC when the blame resides with you Snidely Owl, with you and only you.

You want people who work for you to be accountable? When are you going to be accountable to the fans of this team? When are you going to leave football matters to experts and stop the dabbling drama queen act?

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins could really use a government bailout and redistribution of talent. Come on...work with me here, Mr. President. If you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize, the Redskins certainly deserve the Lombardi Trophy this year!

Posted by: drbatchelor | October 11, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

How about that 2007 draft huh?

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Of course, it would've all turned out different if the 3-N-Out offensive team could have done something -- anything -- productive today.

And anyways -- where's this much vaulted West Coast offense? It looks like the West End of Loser'sville to me.

Fire Zorn.
Bench Campbell.
Get Rid of Portis.
Fire Vinny.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 11, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"Do we draft an O-lineman in the first or will they go QB?"


Jason Campbell played very well today.

The dropped toss down the sideline to Thomas was a tad long, but, if you are an NFL receiver, you make it.

The team is in obvious need of effective tackle play.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 11, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

MOE,

IT HIT DT IN HIS FREAKING HANDS!!!!!! WHAT PART OF LONG IS THAT? HE DIDN'T DIVE UNTIL AFTER THE BALL HIT.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

PLZ JIM ZORN HAS 2 GO, ALONG WITH CAMPBELL, AND PLZ PRETTY PLZ VINNY CERRATO. WE CAN'T FIRE OUR OWNER, SO THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO. BRING HOLMGREN IN AS A GM AND SHANAHAN AS THE HEAD COACH ENOUGH SAID THX. IT'S NOT COMPLICATED AT ALL PEOPLE. PEACE I;M OUT!

Posted by: bazookajd | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Firing Zorn isn't going to change the fact that our o-line can't even get 1 yard against any D, no matter how lousy, when they need to.

Eff Snyderatto.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

OMG...Has the front office made mistakes...YES we have discussed this for years now...GET OVER IT!

moving on....Bottom line is...most of the Vets on this team are not performing....Not to mention the bad O line...injuries...Bad qb play along with bad coaching...this is what ya get!.

blaming Snyder and the "GM" ( as bad as they are) have nothing to do with the coaching staff getting a game plan together and the players executing it.

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

return blockers don't just stop running after the fair catch is called, they need to be in the general vacinity to cover up in case the returner does drop or muff the ball. the assertion that westbrook shoulda just been "standing around" to not be considered as having been blocked into ARE is crazy and a mildly weak cop-out.
IF his explanation is true and that is the way refs are taught to look at those situations, then that would mean that the ref would have to be assigned to watch 2 players run down the field to see when they return team's player is engaged and not engaged, otherwise how could he make a definitive judgement or even fair assesment of when the return team's player stopped blocking and just got pushed into his own man. with that level of resposibility and discretion on one official's shoulders, why isn't that play challengable.

also, what reason would a defensive player have to continue "blocking" an offensive player on a fair catch? since when does the defense block?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | October 11, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Sheehan is great to listen to..... Dude is on fire about this organization.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

That DT 11 drop was huge. You have to make that play. Dude blows.....him and MK 12 and FD...wow what a waste...

wr te wr....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

If you saw a truck heading toward Dan Snyder what would you do? or is that too mean?
Posted by: alex35332 | October 11, 2009 5:10

Get a bucket of water, sponge and some soap to help clean up his grill and wipe away any nasty little Danny bits that might be stuck on there? Pretty sure that's the right answer.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Sorry but wishing for another man's death over football is just a bit over the top...Morons

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

HEADLINE: Snyder is Pathetic, really, really pathetic.
As one case, unfortunately, I was spot on.

Earlier in the week, the Washington Redskins brought in Sherman Lewis to act as "offensive consultant" to address the team's struggles. When asked how much he'd talked to Lewis before the hiring, coach Jim Zorn told the Washington Post, "Zero." Hmm...
NFL Insider Len Pasquarelli had word this week that enriched the case for Mike Shanahan taking over, given that he and Redskins VP Vinny Cerrato have a good relationship based upon their time together with the San Francisco 49ers in the early 1990's.
New information has come to light today as well. According to John Czarnecki of FOXSports.com, Snyder has already offered Shanahan the job. Twice.
Czarnecki has word that the job offer came first during this past offseason, and that another attempt has been made during this season. However, most folks agree that Shanahan is likely going to wait until after the season is over to make his choice.

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM

The front office chose the coaches and the players, before the bullets were flying. The group that they chose can't even load their weapons, much less fire them.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 11, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

hat DT 11 drop was huge. You have to make that play. Dude blows.....him and MK 12 and FD...wow what a waste...

wr te wr....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Agreed Chrislarry..it was huge!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Reap what you sow, homey.

Ashburn will be in flames this week.

Get the kids in the basement and hunker down.

Posted by: gdennie | October 11, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Firing Zorn isn't going to change the fact that our o-line can't even get 1 yard against any D, no matter how lousy, when they need to.

Eff Snyderatto.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM

Amen. Heyer got blown up on that safety. Sellers wasn't any help on that play either.

Posted by: skinswest | October 11, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM

The front office chose the coaches and the players, before the bullets were flying. The group that they chose can't even load their weapons, much less fire them.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 11, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abus

I agree talent....But you still have to play football...You can't blame the bad FO for poor play.

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm desperate for a blow out, on either side of it.

We do enough to win; we do enough to lose.

Posted by: OrganicWater | October 11, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

You kmow who you can blame? everybody...Snyder through the equipment intern. So many problems, plenty of legit blame to spread....

oh well...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Well if you're a real football fan you know D'angelo Hall should have tackled Jake DelHome or whatever his name is, that was as horrible an example of tackling as anyone could ever see that was crucial, The O-line is absolutely terrible D'Anthony Battise was worthless as was Stephon Hyer and that big tub of goo Mike Williams is a joke.

Posted by: dargregmag | October 11, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

PS. We need a run game. Which is funny as fans are so damn pass happy these days.

Posted by: OrganicWater | October 11, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:05 PM

Lighten up. No one really wishes he would die. Guess gallows humor only works on people with something on top of their neck. Besides, the scenario wasn't if I would run him over anyway. I just said I'd help clean up.

Anyway...

"The Redskins need a GM who can prevent Snyder from making decisions, while letting Snyder think he's involved."

Absolutely the most useful quote of the day was from Jimmie Johnson.Hope the next GM can do this.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009

Doh! It requires talent ... talent must come first or would any arena league team do? Who selects the talent for this team? Certainly not Zorn, and even Cerrato probably has to wait until the later rounds. Albeit noting that 3rd round pick "OT" Chad Rinehard was inactive AGAIN!!!??? WTF!?

You absolutely need that talent in the trenches first. That was how the storied superbowl Redskins teams were built. Sonny never played in or won a superbowl, yet he almost certainly was the very best quarterback this team ever had.

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

GIVE ME TRENT WILLIAMS NOW!!! ANY WAY OU WOULD GIVE HIM UP FOR US? Maybe the Commish would give us a draft exemption b/c he feels sorry for the REDSKINS!

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM ==========================================

I don't suppose it's occurred to you, leevi98, that the reason our O-line is bad is because it doesn't have enough good players?

And the reason the good players it has keep getting hurt is because they're really old as far as starting offensive linemen in the NFL go?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 11, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I agree talent....But you still have to play football...You can't blame the bad FO for poor play.

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009

So, if the Redskins sign guys to start that are in way over their head (Heyer, Batiste, Rinehart, etc) to play in THE professional football league, the NFL. Its their fault?

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Well, sorry Levi, but i for one dont have a problem with the owner getting run over by a truck.. Sorry to say, but it would make me happy

Posted by: ocskins | October 11, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Sheehan said "he would not be surprised if Snyder fired Vinny Cerrato" Boy would that be a great day...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I think I am with leevi, whic is rare...i sorta don't get the Snyder death wish...

now complete financial ruin that forces him to sell? Well I am firmly on board with that...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 11, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

O-Line, nuff said. My father in NY sid he saw that the skins were bringing in Shanahan even before this game. h esaid it would happen this season. is this legit

Posted by: Skins281 | October 11, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

O-Line, nuff said. My father in NY sid he saw that the skins were bringing in Shanahan even before this game. h esaid it would happen this season. is this legit

Posted by: Skins281 | October 11, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Just think...If next season is uncapped, we could have an entirely different team given all the potential off-season acquisitions! All we need to get is five coaches coaching, four O-liners blocking, three receivers catching, two running backs running and a quarterback who holds on to the ball. Tra la la la... Go Caps! Go Wiz! Go somebody!

Posted by: cynchouse | October 11, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I agree you cant blame a loss on one call, especially to a winless team, but I don't get why a player would not engage with someone running down the field until the whistle blows. A receiver signaling Fair Catch doesn't immediately mean that all the receiving team's players stop in place.

Also, when you guys talk about blowing this team up, or a fire sale, what exactly are you talking about? The only players of value in a trade scenario are guys like Cooley and Orakpo. Both those guys are young, you want those guys. So I don't see the value in giving up the season when you are 2-3 with what should, even this year, be a winable game next week, a home division game, then the bye week.

Posted by: themantoyou | October 11, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Ironically, we saw the HIGH WATER MARK of the Jim Zorn era this game. Yup, the 15 point lead (17-2) was the biggest lead in the first 21 games of the Zorn era.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 11, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

O-Line, nuff said. My father in NY sid he saw that the skins were bringing in Shanahan even before this game. h esaid it would happen this season. is this legit

Posted by: Skins281 | October 11, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

The most BULLSHI*&&& Call I Have Ever Seen.

I want Mike Pereira to explain this to me. I am utterly disappointed and dissatisfied with the manner in which this play was handled & judged. I may be dumb but I am not immune to unfair officiating.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | October 11, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

the punt muff was a bad break, but the game should have been put away by then. zorn blew it on the 4th down call, when he should have tried to punt the panthers deep. instead he gave them the ball near midfield and a big momentum shift at a critical moment.

Posted by: SkinsfaninNebraska | October 11, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Dre Bly celebrating his interception & then having the ball stripped helped ease the pain from the Redskins loss. Man that was funny.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Biggest loss today was cooleys streak of 5 seasons of catching a pass ended today! And ohh yeah Fred Davis is a bust!

Posted by: dealer1 | October 11, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Last year's draft had a rough day today for sure.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

...which is pretty much how I explained it on the previous thread...

Besides, if anyone out there is crying about that one call, you need to shut up. Our D played outstanding and masked another atrocious odious performance by our wretched putrid offense, plus our bum special teams (did anyone notice Suishy's kickoffs falling to the 10 yard line...Week 4 and he's already losing leg strength AGAIN?!?!)

Posted by: p1funk | October 11, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I'm looking at this game and I can't really fault the defense...I mean they're not one of the top defenses in the league because they can't get off the field when it counts, but 2 turnovers leading to 14 free points? Come on, you can't expect more from a defense in the NFL. All the offense has to do is score 10 points by themselves. 10 points?!! Is that too much to ask? Seriously?

But look, the problem with this offense is not any one group. That's why it's so frustrating. The QB, the line, the WR, the playcalling all have a hand in the ineptness. That's why it's so frustrating. When the QB and lines do their job, it's the WR; when the lines and the WRs do their job, it's the QB failing to see the field. It's all of them!! They can't seem to get it going together.

When the line starts blocking better and the qb sees the field better and the receivers gain separation, it all makes the other group's job easier and it starts looking good. Right now, we're not close to that because each group is messing up on *some* play. To be a consistent offense, you gotta get it going all together and that's going to make everyone's job easier

Posted by: hailbg | October 11, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I blame the refs.

And the media.

And the booing fans.

Yes, that's why the teams blows.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 11, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

OK, either way..financial ruin of Synder..or run over by a truck...tomato/tomatoe

Posted by: ocskins | October 11, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

O-Line, nuff said. My father in NY sid he saw that the skins were bringing in Shanahan even before this game. h esaid it would happen this season. is this legit

Well before the season I predicted that Zorn wouldn't last beyond the 3rd game. I was right ... in that Snyder wanted to replace him (see Snidely Air landing in Denver home of Shanny) but I guess I assumed Blache would reluctantly accept. I am now certain Blache absolutely refused, under no uncertain circumstances. Apparently, Shannahan has done the same to an extent.

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

'teams' = team + extra beer in my belly

Posted by: 4-12 | October 11, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

About the muff call, it's up to either the blocker to GTFO out of the fair catcher's way since he absolutely can be blocked into the receiver...DHall even said that Atlanta used to practice pushing blockers into the receiver whenever a fair catch was called

OR

It's upto Randle El to GTFO when the punt is short and he thinks the blockers are going to run into him.

I'm sorry, forget the fact that that one call didnt decide the game since the Skins just SUCKED offensively. That call didnt decide the game since it was the CORRECT call

Posted by: hailbg | October 11, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Please let the Lerners, Mark Lerner buy the Redskins. They have a lot more money than Snidely and now appear able and willing to hire consummate professionals to run their franchises.

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Peric, stop being a pricc stop bolding

Posted by: dealer1 | October 11, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Watch out for Chiefs next week. Best 0-5 team in Football.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 11, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

At what point do we declare the Cerrato era over?? I mean, THREE 2nd round draft picks and NONE are contributing in their 2nd year. Cerrato is a joke and so will the Skins be as long as he is here.

Posted by: Ireland2 | October 11, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Washington converted two of nine on third downs. So, must have been Hall on Delhomme that decided the game, right?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 11, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Last year's draft had a rough day today for sure.

Posted by: will_ga | October 11, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse


Last year's draft has been having a rough 18 months.

Posted by: p1funk | October 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

If anyone thinks the team gave up on its coach, think again...the defense came out with FIRE. They played like a top 5 defense today. They stuffed the Panthers running game, which is their bread and butter. They went after Delhomme and they got turnovers which lead to 14 points.

So, when everyone's talking about an organizational failure, there's some truth to that, but if the defense can bring it, why cant the offense? Lack of depth on the O-line, lack of talent at the playmaking position, an first time playcaller feeling his way around...there's a lot of blame to go around, just no sugarcoating this

Posted by: hailbg | October 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Any given sunday, any team can come together and win. The panthers won, but not like I would imagine a rallying team would. There was a lot of home-field advantage calls in this game, a lot of home field advantage no-calls also. You can hate the redskins all you want, but they are much better than the NFL officiating & w-l record portrays.

F--- it all!

To Hell with this League.

Time to start watching the UFL!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: AllThatSkins | October 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

How many times can we be short by a half yard on a 3rd down? OUR YAC #'s must be hideous.... along with everything else.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | October 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

If anyone thinks the team gave up on its coach, think again...the defense came out with FIRE. They played like a top 5 defense today. They stuffed the Panthers running game, which is their bread and butter. They went after Delhomme and they got turnovers which lead to 14 points.

So, when everyone's talking about an organizational failure, there's some truth to that, but if the defense can bring it, why cant the offense? Lack of depth on the O-line, lack of talent at the playmaking position, an first time playcaller feeling his way around...there's a lot of blame to go around, just no sugarcoating this

Posted by: hailbg | October 11, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I mean, THREE 2nd round draft picks and NONE are contributing in their 2nd year.

That would mean Mel Kiper is also a joke/idiot as all 3 were in his top ranked receivers list for that year's draft and all were in the top 5.

Posted by: periculum | October 11, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Snyder will not make drastic changes nor will he hire a GM and step back until the following event happens: The fans need to stop attending the games, Snyder needs to hear the fans disapproval via his wallet. As long as fans are attending games and watching this pathetic team, dan stills makes money and will not change a god damn thing

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 11, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

'teams' = team + extra beer in my belly

Posted by: 4-12 | October 11, 2009 6:29 PM

This is an oxymoron. There can't be "extra beer" in your belly. If there were extra, it would already have left via the beer drain.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 11, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

This organization has broken its fans hearts once more by blowing a 17-2 lead coming into the second half. Despite the statistics being in our favor coming into the start of this game, we have learned that statistics don't mean anything when it comes to our Redskins. Because as far as an actual win is concerned, it's just another wild card toss up, and this SECOND LOSS to ANOTHER WINLESS TEAM Danny boy Snyder is another slap in your face and a wake up call that you are doing a crappy job on this venture. You need to understand Snyder that you are not the successful business person that you have convinced yourself to be. In fact, if we are technically speaking, YOU ARE STEALING FROM YOUR CUSTOMERS BY TAKING THEIR MONEY AND NOT DELIVERING THE GOODS THEY PURCHASED. Maybe you should take some lessons on business from Jerry Jones Danny boy.
Today's Redskins - Poster Children for Losers and Failures. read more at www.redskinsfanhomebase.com

Posted by: washrskins | October 11, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

JCs postgame comments pathetic! Out of this league next year that guy will be.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 11, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

it's ridiculous for us to pinpoint our losses on any 1 or 2 or 3 or even 10 plays in a game.
how has out Defense done?
16 pts against NY (JC fumble TD)
7 pts against StL,
19 pts for Detroit,
6 pts to TB (JC fumble at 8yd line)
12 pts for Carolina (sp. teams TO result TD)
what has our offense done?
10 pts vs NYG (garbage TD doesnt count)
9 pts vs StL
7 pts vs Det (garbage TD again)
16 pts vs TB
3 points vs Carolina (both TDs were thanks to D)

our defense has held our opponents to 12 POINTS PER GAME

our offense scores 9 POINTS PER GAME.

the problem is simply our offensive output for the whole game. we are not able to setup 2nd and short, meaning it takes away any hope of a deep pass, in fear of a 3rd and long. this results in our offense CONSTANTLY playing in fear--not to mess up and create situations THEY KNOW they CANNOT CONVERT. what does THAT result in? IT takes the Skins offense 12+ plays to have a shot at scoring. and more often than not, they get near the red zone and run out of field to spread everything out, all the defenses know what to expect and shut them down.
ALL OF THIS can be pinpointed to the playcalling on 1st down. If we can get a coordinator that knows how to call plays on first down, it could help this offense IMMENSELY, and INSTANTLY.

Posted by: kman2 | October 11, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

We all wish for Danny to sell the team and Vinny to get fired. But they are not an easy excuse for the failure of Jim Zorn.

He came here to do one thing - develop JC and assemble a WCO.

He has failed at doing this in even a rudimentary way.

Joe Gibbs power-run game carried him through the first 8 games of last year. Now that CP26 has worn down, there is nothing. NOTHING. Zilch. No signs of progress. No indication of development.

The man just needs to be fired.

Posted by: p1funk | October 11, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Attention Defensive back coaches: Have DHall hit the tacking dummy over and over and over again. Then have somebody throw the ball to Carlos Rogers over and over and over, keep doing it until they start tackling and catching the ball. Sort of obvious.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 11, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Coming soon to Broadway: The Washington Redskins in "The Wizard of Oz".

Starring:

HC Zorn as "Scarecrow" -- Oh Wizard, I need a brain!

The Redskins Offense as "Cowardly Lion" -- Oh Wizard, no other NFL D is afraid of me!

The Redskins Defense as "Tin Man" -- Oh Wizard, I have no heart to tackle a QB scrambling on 3rd down.

"MR. Snyder" as Dorothy and "Vinny" as Toto -- Oh Toto, I don't think we're in Landover, oops, I meant Kansas ...

Posted by: johnnie_rocket | October 11, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

kman2, that's actually a profound point. I've read somewhere (Boswell ?) that JC's QB rating on 1st down is excellent. Even normalized for other QB's rating on 1st down (probably higher than average since the defense has to play pass/run), it's still very very high. If we can get to 2nd and 5 on a consistent basis, that would make things TONS easier. I would love to see a breakdown on Redskins plays and drives when they throw on 1st down (or even when they run but gain 5 or more yards) vs when they don't...

Posted by: hailbg | October 11, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: p1funk | October 11, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

A sad prediction for next week:
Kansas City 28..... Redskins 13........same old same old and Zorn will say we're improving

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 11, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

First-- I like to think that the Redskins are a poor team playing to about their abilities. It makes games like this one easier to stomach. Second, I think L. Betts is the most under-utilized redskin. Bench Portis and give Betts lots more touches- I seem to recall that he is a proven 1000 yd rusher.

Posted by: tplakeup | October 11, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if anyone else has made this observation yet [I haven't had a chance to follow the posts] but every game this team has played this season has been against a winless team--from the 0-0 Giants to the 0-1 Rams to the 0-2 Lions to the 0-3 Bucs to the 0-4 Panthers. Our record against these winless teams is 2-3. We are beloved in New York, Detroit and Charlotte; we are everybody's favorite team to play at homecoming.

Posted by: boothintexas | October 11, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Put the blame where it needs to be right not...Bad coaching and bad play by the players...the front office has nothing to do with that once the bullets fly!

Posted by: leevi98 | October 11, 2009 6:02 PM

If leevi98 leaves the house without wearing any pants, he blames the pants.

Posted by: mack1 | October 11, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Bottom Line

It's been said over and over again, in the course of Daniel Synder's tensure as an owner, You need to build a team concept" The issue here is that we, the fans, do not have the patiens to let the team rebuild. Look: NFL team ownership is a business. Every business base it's deciosns on the customer demand. We are the customers. And we dmand year in and year out Superbowl So, danny boy year in and year out give us the likeness of Supebowl. We keep buting the product and he, like any other business man, kep selling it Can't blame him for that.

History is not deceiving The most sucessful teams build from the drafts The building blocks begin in he trenches, offisive and defives lines All successful teams have GM's And it takes at the very least, three years to re-build

Fans, We must demand a GM We must demand that playrs are selected from the draft But we must also be willing to wait for the re-building process come to fuition. Or we can continue this false hope for another ten years.

If you are willing to stand on these grounds, join me in petitioning Daniel Snyder to trule rebuild on Rebuildredskins@yahoo.com

Posted by: preacherman120022002 | October 11, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

If you are willing to stand on these grounds, join me in petitioning Daniel Snyder to trule rebuild on Rebuildredskins@yahoo.com

Posted by: preacherman120022002 | October 11, 2009 7:03 PM
=========The only thing that Snyder will understand is a half empty stadium on game days

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 11, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

1 yes the Truck thing was gallows humor, DMY, CL you should know I never post anything with seriousness.
2 I remember being one of many happy people when we had 3 2nd round picks and figureing at least 1 or 2 would be on the lines.

I am going to a bar.
Night yal/

Posted by: alex35332 | October 11, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

So...where are all the eternal optimists now? (I'm looking for you, Pabrian2003.) Where are all those saying "well, we're only 2-3, the season is not lost yet," where are all the slurpers, where are all the apologists?

Even though 2-3 is not good, I still say it's a weak 2-3:
The 2 wins came against currently winless teams.
2 losses came against previously winless teams.
3-9 dating back to last season.
Team is averaging 14.6 points a game this season. Offense is averaging 13.2 points a game (i.e. throw out the Hunter Smith TD against Giants).
Not a single 100 yard rushing game by any back on the roster this season.
Have not scored 30 points at any time during the Zorn "era."
Campbell sacked 4 times; hurried 4 times; hit 3 times today against Carolina.

And all of this is just off the top of my head. I shudder at the idea of digging deeper into the numbers.

I agree with what others have said: this team's offense has been built from the outside in with an emphasis over skill position players over the offensive line. I think that is really the biggest weakness for the offense - and it's the worst possible weakness, especially as we march towards November and December with games in the NFC East.

Can't wait to see the soap opera that unfolds this week! It's the best entertainment us fans have right now.

Watch it burn.

Posted by: hithere1 | October 11, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

I am really sick and tired of people calling those of us who are tired of this Fair Weather Fans. I have been a Redskins Fan for 29 years and a season ticket holder for 7 - and I am done. Those of who have spent countless hours in the seats at FedEx and thousands of dollars on season tickets have earned the right to speak or mind - and that includes booing bad football.

We will never win until Snyder gets out of the football operations and hires a GM that will run the team in conjunction with a coach. He has Casserly in the area that could help out a lot. Zorn is part of the problem, but he is a symptom of the larger front office problems that don't draft well, don't protect draft picks, and always want to sign the next big name free agent for way too much money. See Hall for an example - he got cut by the Raiders before he got here. Cerrato tried that formula in SF and left them in salary cap hell for many years after he left. All it leaves us with is a bunch of individuals. I feel bad for the players on this team.

Unfortunately, there is no hope for this season or our beloved team until Snyder gets a GM and his hands off. We could have Bill Belicheck for a coach and it would not matter.

The only answer for us fans is to keep watching and hoping, but do not spend any money in Fedex or for any Skins gear. The only way to get Snyder's attention is through the pocket book.

Posted by: Sec428andSec113 | October 11, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

New information has come to light today as well. According to John Czarnecki of FOXSports.com, Snyder has already offered Shanahan the job. Twice.

Posted by: PERICULUM

Official reason given? Said he wanted to work for a professional football organization.

Posted by: TheCork | October 11, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Deangelo Hall is the biggist puss in the NFL. How can you not take down a scrambling QB with the game on the line? I think he's trying to be Deon Sanders, cover and not tackle anybody. That being said, Zorns play calling has been horrible. We have enough talent to go at least 10-4 in this league. Lets go ahead and get either Shannahan or Cowher and go to the playoffs next year!!!
rainman

Posted by: rainman1303 | October 11, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

REBUILDREDSKINS@YAHOO.COM

Send your support via e-mail and I'll send you the petition. If Daniel Snyder does not adhere to this warning, we will not attend the games Time for change is now

Posted by: preacherman120022002 | October 11, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

I will remain the biggest Redskins fan on the face of the Earth, but come on!!! Zorn has got to get the team to move the ball! They are about the worst offensive team in the league right now. Its not the talent, its the coaching!!!

Posted by: rainman1303 | October 11, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

If you watched the play closely.... The Carolina player grabbed Westbrook with his outside shoulder onto Westbrooks outside shoulder and lifts him and flings him into the returner.

In a league were if a blocker throws a player into the QB or punter.. running into the player doesn't apply. But if a tackler throws a blocker into a fair catch.. That's legal? I guess you can never have players who are small blocking.. because if they engage in blocking.. they can be picked up and flung.. That's really protecting players! Oh wait.. If he got up and pointed to his leg like Brady Bunch, well... you GOT TO CALL THAT!!! He clearly dragged Westbrook into the play and that is illegal. But since the referee called it that way, it can't be reviewed.
Wait a minute.. you can call tainting before the actual taunt.. Like the ref did in the Raven game. There needs to be professional referees.. Not old fat lame lawyers and dentist who can't get out of the way. How many refs fell down this weekend??

Posted by: baggfull | October 11, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Okay, everyone piling on D. Hall for his "poor effort" on the Delhomme conversion run.

Yeah, granted, Hall's tackling is pretty substandard in general.

However, that mess should be [is] ALL on the D coordinator. Plain and simple a piss poor defensive call on that play.

On a 3rd and X= Less Than 10 yards you'll see sane defenses ALMOST ALWAYS have a SAFETY shoot around (towards the offensive backfield...as if pass rushing) the edge to discourage a QB run, a change of direction by the RB, or an end around on such a play.

You send a SAFETY because (allegedly...in general) they are stronger and better hitters than CBs.

Then, the CBs job is to show RB pursuit/hit the pile and slide out to back up the Safety in case the safety slips, or the ball carrier jukes him out.

The thinking (the way I was taught) was that once the ball carrier is rolling outside to escape the safety, they're off balance enough that [as I once heard in a defensive meeting], "even a corner can knock 'em down.." (good memories there...), man do I feel old.

Sending the safety to follow the pile on that play was the 1st BIG mistake. The second was D. Hall not making a better effore to strip the ball the way Delhomme was carrying it.

Hall was just playing catch-up sweeper DB by reflex on a crappy call where we were outcoached.

That's ALWAYS a mismatch...and WE created it.

The way Carolina was able to catch the D out of position leaving D. Hall suddenly in pursuit mode (giving him, an already weak tackler, even less leverage to exert on the tackle...due to the increased difficulty in planting to tackle from a running start), when he should have been sweeping behind another defender as backup...was what REALLY enabled Delhomme to lunge for the last of the yardage seems to me a fault more of poor planning than inadequate execution.

LOTS of blame to spread around on that play.

MOST of it should fall elsewhere.

The long and the short of it is...All D. Hall failed to do was compensate for a bad play call.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 11, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

The Offense is a joke. They have backups starting then getting hurt. Portis is Not that good anymore. Jason cannot read a D!!! If the primary is covered, then it is to a back. These guys are open all the time dudes!!! He is late or missing them!! It doesn't matter! As long as Vinny is buying the groceries.. This team will always be just good enough to lose! They should trade for Jamarcus Russel and get it over with! NO CLUE! Jack is rolling over in his grave! THE SHAME!!!

Posted by: baggfull | October 11, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

ThinkingMan..I would agree if it were not for the third down run before Delhomme scrambled. D. Hall went in for that tackle and flinched so bad he turned his back on it.

London Fletcher needs to stop the tape in the D meeting and call D. Hall out for complete lack of effort and heart on that one. He gets paid a lot (too much) money as a "top" corner in the league and he ole-ed the first tackle and got run over by Delhomme on the second tackle. At some point, the players have to make a play to, but why should they when there are no consequences....

Posted by: Sec428andSec113 | October 11, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

I dont think the DT drop was that huge.

For one, I replayed it, and he was tripped before the ball got there. It's not as if he was running all alone, and dropped an easy TD.

Also, people stop with the FIRE SNYDER. That's just not going to happen.

And may I add, Snyder has alot more patience than I. I would have fired Zorn's ass in the pre-season. I was pissed at that time when I noticed that the team not only did not improve but actually regressed during the off season.

Posted by: Redskin_in_miami | October 11, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

JCs postgame comments pathetic! Out of this league next year that guy will be.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 11, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

___________________________________________

Not out of the league, but backup somewhere for sure.

Zorn will be out of the league. Maybe a QB coach job two years from now.

Posted by: Redskin_in_miami | October 11, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

@Reds_in_miami

You're right we shouldn't say FIRE SNYDER we should say SNYDER DIE, DIE, DIE, because that COULD happen.

As for your IMPATIENCE, I bet you were one of the people who wanted us to get rid of BRAD JOHNSON who has a RING since leaving us. What do we have broken dreams and doubt.

Posted by: ApostleOfJudas | October 11, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Regardless if Walt Coleman made the right call according to the rule the problem is the rule itself. It's a stupid rule. How can you reward a team that blocks a guy into a guy in a defensive position. Funny, if a guy get's blocked into the punter then there is no roughing penalty. The same should be the case on a fair catch signal. It's a dumb rule and while it won't change anything about today's game, it should be changed for the future.
As far as whether it changed the game, sure you could say that but a good team, once getting up 17-2 finishes off their opponent. The Skins, since the beginning of time seem to lack the killer instinct and finish off their opponent when they have a chance. Had they done that, this play would not have mattered much. But then again, not only do the skins lack the killer instinct, they also lack the talent to win consistently which makes them so annoying to watch each week and so predictable.

Posted by: JWPinCHI | October 12, 2009 1:02 AM | Report abuse

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