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Report: Mitchell has preliminary talk with Southern

According to an Associated Press report, Redskins assistant coach Stump Mitchell has had a preliminary telephone interview for Southern University's head coaching job.

Burton Rocks, the agent for Mitchell said Monday his client spoke to Southern and is "honored to be considered a candidate." The Redskins granted Southern AD Greg Lafleur permission to pursue Mitchell, Rocks said.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 14, 2009; 4:41 PM ET
 
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Comments

whatever will we do without stump.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Sherm Lewis: New OC
Sherm Smith: Running Backs
Jim Zorn: Dodges Bullet

Posted by: JHvet1 | December 14, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Rocks.
That's even a better name than Stump.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

"but no team is perfect and there are plenty of QBs that put up better stats and win more games than JC."

which ones? that's all i ask really, is what qbs are in similar bad circumstances and are clearly better? Or just the ones that are clearly better? I think the list really isnt that long.

btw- Collins essentially completed 1 pass in that loss to KC, and looked like absolute dog poop otherwise. Why? Because our oline was beyond bad at that point, neither qb's fault there

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Vince Young came into a winless team and has won 6 of 7.

Aaron Rodgers
Big Ben
David Garrard

have all been sacked more than JC and have better records and numbers

Brett Favre
Donavon McNAbb (despite not playing in two games)
Tony Romo
Joe Flacco
all have been sacked in the high 20s which is not that far from JC's 33 and they all have better numbers and records.

Jamarcus Russel
Jay Cutler
and Matt Cassel
are the only ones that have similar sack numbers yet worse numbers and the Raiders have the same record, the Bears have a better record and the Chiefs beat us.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 4:40 PM

Dude, I think the fact that Gibbs went to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years with the structure of this organization reaffirms his genius. They should put a second bust in the HOF for Gibbs 2.0.

As far as Gibbs the GM...Not so much.

This isn't the NBA where a player can when a championship, it takes an organization to win in the NFL.


Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 4:50 PM

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Rocks.
That's even a better name than Stump.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM

Then there's the name that Jasno La Canfora gave his boy-child: Rocco. Better than Stumpo.

Posted by: League-Source | December 14, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

In an attempt to keep the mojo going, Zorn has changed his first name to 'Sherm' so that he can participate in playcalling.

Posted by: daggar | December 14, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Ehhhh....who cares?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Southern U. AD: "We'd like permission to interview Stump Mitchell."

Vinny: "Who?"

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Another person I have to give credit to is Jim Zorn. I've been really tough on Zorn with my criticisms in the past, but one thing he has truly done is keep this team (for the most part) motivated despite the horrible season. These guys play for Zorn. He certainly isn't a playcaller, his gameplans were always bland, and he definitely had an anemic offense, but he always had his players ready to fight.

Now that Zorn has had his influence stymied with the gameplans, could it actually be that he's a decent head coach?

Mike Tomlin was a defensive specialist, but he let Dick Lebeau run that show when he came to Pittsburgh. Could Zorn be that type of guy with Sherm Lewis?

These next 3 weeks could tell a lot.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

"He did, but to both his credit and detriment, he said that while Jackson was the most NFL-ready receiver in the draft, he didn't want to take him because he was another "small" WR".

You can't have it both ways. This team needed offensive playmakers, which included O Line. Why wouldn't you take the most NFL ready? So it'd be better to wait a few years to see how a bigger WR pans out? Jackson's already a star.

Weak philosophical justifications? Please.....as if Vinny even has any.

Vinny f'd up by going WR-TE-WR, Vinny f'd up not taking Jackson, Vinny f'd up not replinishing the O line sooner, and clearly Vinny f'd up endorsing Zorn as the hire for HC.

F Vinny!


Posted by: ksquare | December 14, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

I asked for a list of qb's who are clearly better and you included Jamarcus Russell??

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Today's School Lunch:
Bowtie Pasta
w/Meat Sauce
Chicken Nuggets~
Fruit and Veggie Bar
1% or nonfat milk

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

so what you're saying is we should pursue any of those qbs and that would be an upgrade?

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

No, that's not what I said, I said JC should come back at a reasonable price and we should fix our other problems. But I don't get why you all just assume that JC is doing the best he or anybody could possibly do because of the excuses you make for him. I've watched every game and there are multiple times in every game where he misses wide open receivers, makes bad reads, and falls short at key moments. The play of the oline hasn't helped and I admit he has a tougher job than some in the league but he hasn't played particularly well until recently is all I'm saying and that recent good play has produced one win against the Raiders and now all of a sudden we don't have a qb issue and he's just fine if we just get a couple olineman? come on....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I agree he seems to be our best option for the immediate future and I hope they are smart and don't try to just go with a rookie, but they definitely need to be grooming a replacement for him while improving the team and hoping the lights come on for JC. I'm skeptical that can happen, but the prudent thing to do is hang on to him as he's our best option and hope it happens. But pretending he's played well (except for recently) and that he's blameless in all of this is ridiculous. He's not our biggest problem, but he's a big problem.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Good one, etrod. LOL. It's not like they're asking to interview Sherman Lewis.

Posted by: League-Source | December 14, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

So wait, what you're saying is that despite the fact that Campbell has significantly higher completions, completion percentage, yards, TDs, yards per attempt, (lower) INTs, rush yards, and passer rating, Mark Sanchez is the reason why the Jets have a better record than the Redskins?

Really?

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 4:19 PM |
-----------------------------

Who is the reason the Jets have a better record than the Redskins then? Kellen Clemens?

The Jets roster is not as talented as the Skins, not by a long shot. I get to see all the Jets games where I live.

Sanchez is pretty good so far, he's 6-6, and he's a ROOKIE, not a 5-year veteran.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

There you go 4th something to care about.

Only thing left to care about is beating Dallas and what draft pick we wind up with, and even that probably won't make a big difference.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

He's a loser, pure and simple, and the sooner that he is gone, the better!

Posted by: Vic1 | December 14, 2009 4:12 PM

Yes...Because then the Skins can bring in, um, Leftwich!...Or Carr!...Or Harrington!...Or Ramsey! So many great FA QBs will be on the market. Or Colt "Babe Laufenberg" Brennan!
Or how about this...draft one of the Clausen/McCoy/Tebow trio with the high first rounder, and neglect the OLine some more. Yes, let's dump JC, alternatives be damned.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

bean

"..phillies just got halladay....doc, that is..."


Thing is, they needed him about 6 weeks ago for that little contest they lost with the Evil Empire.

Is Lackey on Yawkey Way yet?

I bet B Cashman jumps out the bushes and tries does the 'we'll outbid you guys' thing just to run up the cost of signing him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

No, that's not what I said, I said ... come on....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 5:02 PM

I get this feeling a lot up here. That's why I lots of my posts are just nonsense to begin with. Ralph Waldo Emerson once said "To be great is to be misunderstood."

[How many peeps up here think they just scored b/c they thought we were playing 'Where's Waldo'?]

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

_Stumped_ -- No rice pudding or jello? I hope they're not charging more than $.50.

Posted by: League-Source | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm officially off the "hoping to lose" bandwagon. I'd be all in if we lost to the Raiders but since we won that, Vinny's job is safe so there's no point in cheering for a higher draft pick. I hope we win out, pick 12th and take what falls to us be it OL, DL, QB, RB, or TAYLOR MAYS!!!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I would say their competing in spite of Zorn....

Look for us to close out the season at minimum 6-10, but I'm shooting for 7-9. And the offensive people will be dumped in the offseason so Shanny and his Son can take care of business.....

Book it! There's no turning back from the WCO now....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

I asked for a list of qb's who are clearly better and you included Jamarcus Russell??

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I included all the QBs with similar sack numbers. No Jamarcus Russell is light years worse, but his and Gradkowski's sack numbers would indicate that they are in a similar situation and they're combined record is the same as ours and Gradkowski had just beaten the Steelers. I'm just saying you guys act like JC is the only QB in the NFL that has to deal with pressure and oline issues, he's not and he's not evne within 10 sacks of the most sacked QB yet we've sucked for most of the season. 3 good games doesn't erase that, there are lots of problems with this team and JC is absolutely one of them, ignoring that or thinking it isn't true because of a couple good games isn't true. There may not be an upgrade option this year, and there are bigger fish to fry in terms of the oline, rb, and coaching, but he has still played pretty mediocre for most of the year and our record reflects it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

_Stumped_ -- No rice pudding or jello? I hope they're not charging more than $.50.

Posted by: League-Source | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM |

You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Stump Mitchell ... next year the position coach for RB will be more important b/c there will be a new one, maybe a new franchise one ... but Sherman Smith is already here (and he already was the lead negotiator in the Peace Accords brokered over Portis' playing time). That's the plan ... Stump out ... Sherman Smith bumped down to RB coach ... Jim Zorn bumped down to offensive coordinator ...

... and honesty reigns again in DC ... Dan Snyder properely assumes the head coach position that he has been working toward for so long.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Source,
No. No rice pudding or jello.

Hmmm looking at the rest of the month...it seems like the Fruit and Veggie Bar and the
1% or nonfat milk are non-negotiable.

I wonder if someone cut a deal?

Maybe if we all complain they'll pick up some jello and pudding on waivers. Or maybe draft some apple crisp. Mmmmmm apple crisp.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

"Sanchez is pretty good so far, he's 6-6, and he's a ROOKIE, not a 5-year veteran."

Sanchez is having one of the worst statistical seasons of all-time for a QB, regardless of whether we're talking rookies or veterans.

The Jets have the #1 defense in yards allowed and points allowed, have a top offensive line built around four different 1st round draft picks, and have the 4th leading rusher in the NFL (3rd in TDs). The reason the Jets are out of the playoffs is because of Mark Sanchez, not despite him.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

... and honesty reigns again in DC ... Dan Snyder properely assumes the head coach position that he has been working toward for so long.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse


He will also play quarterback. He will then release a #1 soft rock single, thus becoming the Jackie Moon of the NFL.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"Sanchez is pretty good so far.."

Posted by: MrRedskin21

now that is a hilarious

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

We said same situation not just same sacks.

Green Bay - has a better defense, better receivers, better interior line, and better run game.

Pittsburgh - has a better line, better run game, and a better defense.

Rodgers and Big Ben both hold the ball too long. Most of their sacks come around the 3-4 second mark. JC takes his sacks at around 2.0-3.0 seconds.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-sorted-by-team/

Max Starks is giving up sacks after 4.5 seconds!! The ball should have been long gone by then.

Garrard doesn't have better numbers and he isn't a bad quarterback either. Garrard has more yards but has more attempts. He has less TDs, lower rating, lower completion percentage, and MJD.

The only quarterbacks in the same situation in this league is probably Jay Cutler and Matt Cassel. I'd say Jay is in a worse situation because he has no recievers on top of all of our other defienciencies.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

TAYLOR MAYS!!!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:10 PM

I like that Tennessee guy instead ... WYSIWYG on USC Trojan guys. Other than Clay Mathews, whatever happened to those other two linebackes (Rey M. or Cushing)? Sanchise? Really? John David Booty? Reggie Bush? Leinart? Winston Justice? MIKE FRIGGIN WILLIAMS (ex-WR, ex-Lion).

WYSIWYG in college, even USC, does not mean results in the NFL. The only two solid hits in recent memory are Carson Palmer and Polomalu.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

How can we compare JC17 to a Rookie? Camp better have better stats, which he does.

Too bad he doesn't have a better record....

Zing!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Marko Mitchell is ready to be a coach.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | December 14, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Napoleon crowned himself Emperor Napoleon I on 2 December 1804.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

"I agree he seems to be our best option for the immediate future and I hope they are smart and don't try to just go with a rookie, but they definitely need to be grooming a replacement for him while improving the team and hoping the lights come on for JC."

that's basically how I feel too, except that i think the light seems to be coming on.

the thing is, when you watch almost any qb often you see all sorts of mistakes and bad plays. Eli looks terrible pretty often, but then will make some critical throws. Romo tends to suddenly be ineffective for big stretches. The list goes on and on with only a select few who really appear to be 'feelin it' at almost all times

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I like that Tennessee guy instead ... WYSIWYG on USC Trojan guys. Other than Clay Mathews, whatever happened to those other two linebackes (Rey M. or Cushing)? Sanchise? Really? John David Booty? Reggie Bush? Leinart? Winston Justice? MIKE FRIGGIN WILLIAMS (ex-WR, ex-Lion).

WYSIWYG in college, even USC, does not mean results in the NFL. The only two solid hits in recent memory are Carson Palmer and Polomalu.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:20 PM

Cushing will be the ROY this year...Where have you been??

And Rey is beasting out in Cincy....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Green Bay - ... , ... , better interior line, and ....

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 5:18 PM

GONG! Thanks for playing!

Rodgers not such tight friends with the turf because he holds onto the ball too long, its because his line (at least during the first party of the season) was hosting an open house.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

...Napoleon preferred Bowtie Pasta with meat sauce to chicken nuggets.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

WYSIWYG in college, even USC, does not mean results in the NFL. The only two solid hits in recent memory are Carson Palmer and Polomalu.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

WYSIWYG? I have a limit of 4 character blog achronyms. That one is way out of my league.

Cushing is right up there with Matthews and Orakpo for rookie of the year.

I'm feeling you on the USC flameouts but I have a soft spot for 6-3, 230lb safeties with 4.3 speed (who just so happen to be named Taylor).

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Plus, if we win out and go 7-9, we'd have no shot at Berry. He's going in the top 5.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Cushing will be the ROY this year...Where have you been??

And Rey is beasting out in Cincy....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM

Living in obvilion obviously (and based on 4-12 ridiculous hacking into my picks on the Coffee Flats site). I heard tell that Orakpo was looking like the DROY ... but if you want to be a Trojan lover ... actually, scratch that ... congratulations on the new born ... F Trojans!

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Taylor Mays has been awful this season both Eric Berry or Earl Thomas would be much better picks, but can we just stop draft DBs high in the first round? They rarely pan out especially safeties, there are only a handful of dominant safeties in the league and there have been tons drafted highly every year. We need to just sign a solid vet at FS and draft an offensive weapon whether it be OT, RB, or even QB any of those would be better than taking a freaking safety.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm feeling you on the USC flameouts but I have a soft spot for 6-3, 230lb safeties with 4.3 speed (who just so happen to be named Taylor).

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:25 PM

He'd be a great pick if you're looking for another SS. Eric Berry is the 2nd best player in the draft behind Suh and is a FS/CB. He's a lock for the top 8.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

WYSIWYG is the acronym for keyboards (what you see is what you get).

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Also, F WYSIWYG ... and F Dallas ... and while the bomb machine is out, F chRIs LaRry!

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Rodgers not such tight friends with the turf because he holds onto the ball too long, its because his line (at least during the first party of the season) was hosting an open house.


Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Did you read the word interior? That consists of the 2 guards and the center but thanks for playing. His quick sacks mostly came from Alan Barbre and Barbre is benched now. You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard about how long Rodgers holds onto the ball.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Wait for it.....

Posted by: ksquare | December 14, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

I know Skins don't need another DT, but I heard Suh's name pronounced on the radios over the weekend and think we should draft him based on pronunciation alone.

Pronounced en-DOM-i-kin SOO ... the guy might be a genetic mix with a Transformer.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is ranked 14th. Every QB ahead of him in stats except VY is headed to the playoffs.

Every QB that people on this board talked about as having more upside or as being better than JC is below him in QB ranking.

Flacco, Ryan, Cutler, Orton, Sanchez

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | December 14, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Ralph Waldo Emerson once said "To be great is to be misunderstood."

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:09 PM

"As a cure for worrying, work is better than whiskey."

Agree to disagree.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard about how long Rodgers holds onto the ball.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 5:29 PM

A small rock that I like to call oblivion. And I did notice that the Packers have re-surged behind Chad Clifton and the other guy ... so thanks for the update on the reason he doesn't step up into the pocket.

Posted by: dcsween | December 14, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

He'd be a great pick if you're looking for another SS. Eric Berry is the 2nd best player in the draft behind Suh and is a FS/CB. He's a lock for the top 8.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse


I'm not stumping for Berry because we have no shot at him. I started this arguement by saying I hope we win out and pick around #12. By that time, Okung, Berry, (boy named) Suh and the other top players will be gone and we can do what Vinny does best, get the best guy available.

I realize that I'm alone in my Taylor Mays love fest and that he hasn't looked that great this year. My opinion is that he's phoning it in this season while trying not to get hurt. Much like one Sean Taylor did in the latter portion of his final season at the U.

He will be a beast in the NF of L at free safety.

So stick that in your c*ck holsters. I'm taking my ball and leaving.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Despite Sonny's early season critique of JC,Campbell has been a stand up person i know had that been me i would have confronted Jurgy who never won dog poop with this franchise but yet is held in high esteem by almost everybody, but JC is pure class i for one hope that he'll come back provided this sh#tcan of a front office treats him fairly on and off the field.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 14, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

If we win out...


Ha ha ha,
Etrod you slay me!

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I started this arguement by saying I hope we win out and pick around #12. By that time, Okung, Berry, (boy named) Suh and the other top players will be gone and we can do what Vinny does best, get the best guy available.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:35 PM

Or, what Snyder wants to do best -- Trade up into the top five for The Hot QB. (That's how Gibbs got JC if you recall adn how'd that work out? Correct answer: we don't know.)

Posted by: League-Source | December 14, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I HATE TO SAY THIS FOLKS BUT VINNY HERE TO STAY..ALOT OF FOLKS WANT THE GUY TO BE FIRED BUT NOBODY HAS GIVEN THIS DUDE CREDIT FOR BUILDING A SOLID D FENCE HERE IN WASHINGTON.. NOW, I'M NOT SAYING I WANT THIS GUY AROUND BUT LET'S AT LEAST GIVE THIS DUDE CREDIT FOR BUILDING A D DENCE.. NOT TO MENTION DRAFTING MY GUY MR. TAYLOR

Posted by: taylormade218 | December 14, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"we can do what Vinny does best, get the best guy available."

do we really want another TE?

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

geee mmmmm
repeat,
geee mmmmm
again,
geee mmmmm

(still don't have one. SJK!)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 14, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm not stumping for Berry because we have no shot at him. I started this arguement by saying I hope we win out and pick around #12. By that time, Okung, Berry, (boy named) Suh and the other top players will be gone and we can do what Vinny does best, get the best guy available.

I realize that I'm alone in my Taylor Mays love fest and that he hasn't looked that great this year. My opinion is that he's phoning it in this season while trying not to get hurt. Much like one Sean Taylor did in the latter portion of his final season at the U.

He will be a beast in the NF of L at free safety.

So stick that in your c*ck holsters. I'm taking my ball and leaving.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I like Taylor Mays as well.. Can you image him and LL back there..nobody would catch the ball in the middle of the field.

Posted by: taylormade218 | December 14, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

I like Taylor Mays as well.. Can you image him and LL back there..nobody would catch the ball in the middle of the field.


Posted by: taylormade218 | December 14, 2009 5:50 PM

Do you mean everyone would catch the ball in the middle of the field.

Landry can't cover his shadow and needs to play SS. Mays is a SS, this team needs a FS.

Here is a scouting report for Mays:

Mays isn't a free safety at the next level; no chance he pans out there because he is horrible in coverage and has zero ball skills. Mays idea of playing football is running and throwing his body around, which is why I am giving him the nickname “The Trojan Torpedo.” I think Mays can start at strong safety for some team, but he will be pretty average. Mays is the Vernon Gholston of safety prospects. Sure he has great measurables, but so did Gholston. I personally wouldn't draft Mays in the top 40 picks, but his draft range is all over the board. He could go top five to a team like Oakland or he could fall to the lower part of the first round.

Sounds a lot like LL, doesen't it?

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"Sanchez is pretty good so far, he's 6-6, and he's a ROOKIE, not a 5-year veteran."

Sanchez is having one of the worst statistical seasons of all-time for a QB, regardless of whether we're talking rookies or veterans.

The Jets have the #1 defense in yards allowed and points allowed, have a top offensive line built around four different 1st round draft picks, and have the 4th leading rusher in the NFL (3rd in TDs). The reason the Jets are out of the playoffs is because of Mark Sanchez, not despite him.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 5:15 PM |

------------------------

Up until a couple of weeks ago, the Redskins had the #1 pass defense. Now the Jets have that slot. What's your point?

Sanchez is a ROOKIE, he's 6-6.

Campbell is a 5-year veteran, he's 20-29.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"Sanchez is pretty good so far.."

Posted by: MrRedskin21

now that is a hilarious

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 5:18 PM |
---------------------------

He's 6-6, and he's a ROOKIE.

Campbell was 5-7 in his first 12 starts, and he wasn't a rookie.

Now he's 20-29.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Up until a couple of weeks ago, the Redskins had the #1 pass defense. Now the Jets have that slot. What's your point?

I believe the point was that it doesnt matter if Sanchez is a rookie or not. The fact that your stating he has been pretty good makes it look like you are high.Sanchez clearly has one of the better lines and pretty good supporting cast and a dominating defense. If he is pretty good as you say the jets would be looking at least two to three more wins. He is a rookie and he will probably improve. The point is he sucks now and if he were here in Washington it would be worse for us and him. By the way he did not play this weekend so he is 5-6

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | December 14, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Come on, everyone knows you can't just look at a QB's win-loss record and judge him by that. It doesn't tell the entire story. So every single loss on Campbell's record was his own fault?

Everyone has said it but Football is a TEAM sport.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Now he's 20-29.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:00 PM

Portis played in many of those 49 games. Portis sucks, he can't win.
Moss played in many of those 49 games.
Moss sucks, he can't win.
And on and on and on we can go.
"We're all in this together" etc. etc. etc.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I believe the point was that it doesnt matter if Sanchez is a rookie or not. The fact that your stating he has been pretty good makes it look like you are high.Sanchez clearly has one of the better lines and pretty good supporting cast and a dominating defense. If he is pretty good as you say the jets would be looking at least two to three more wins. He is a rookie and he will probably improve. The point is he sucks now and if he were here in Washington it would be worse for us and him. By the way he did not play this weekend so he is 5-6

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | December 14, 2009 6:08 PM |
---------------------------------------

I said he's pretty good for what he is: a ROOKIE.

Campbell is likewise just what he is: 20-29. But he's 5 years in the league.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

So now MrRedskin21 doesn't like Jason Campbell? I guess everybody has a right to change their opinion. But really, make up your mind already.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Portis played in many of those 49 games. Portis sucks, he can't win.
Moss played in many of those 49 games.
Moss sucks, he can't win.
And on and on and on we can go.
"We're all in this together" etc. etc. etc.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:15 PM |
------------------------

So did Ethan Albright.

The QB is the player who handles the ball on every offensive play. Not Moss, not Portis, not Albright.

He's 20-29. Because he's not very good.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

So now MrRedskin21 doesn't like Jason Campbell? I guess everybody has a right to change their opinion. But really, make up your mind already.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2009 6:16 PM |
------------------------------

I'm saying tender him, but don't count on him next year. The team needs to have a second option to turn to, which they can achieve either through FA or the draft.

The people who are saying hand him the reigns for another year in 2010 based on the last three games (in which the team is 1-2) are the emotionally-driven type, I guess.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

A QB's win-loss record is about as meaningless as a starting pitcher's win-loss record. How does a he get a win if his offense doesn't score runs? Or if he leaves the game when it's tied? The most important stat for pitchers is the ERA, not the wins and losses. It's about the same thing for quarterbacks. Not a great comparison but just trying to make a point.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Hence my "on and on and on."
And "we're all in this together."

But yes, yes Mr21. HE'S 20-29, not the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

lol...I'm not fazed by it. Some of the very same people who are high on Campbell today (based on a solid performance at Oakland) will be back calling for his head if he stinks it up against the Giants on MNF. Which is a distinct possibility.

Besises, at least I'm saying tender Campbell; I am not saying that about ARE (who needs to go ASAP) or Zorn (who also needs to go, imo).

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

"The QB is the player who handles the ball on every offensive play. Not Moss, not Portis, not Albright."

And??? What happens when the defense gives up bombs to Desean Jackson like in the Eagles game? Is that Campbell's fault? Or when the kicker misses field goals? I guess that's his fault as well.

4-12 is right. The WASHINGTON REDSKINS are 20-29 as a TEAM.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

And??? What happens when the defense gives up bombs to Desean Jackson like in the Eagles game? Is that Campbell's fault? Or when the kicker misses field goals? I guess that's his fault as well.

4-12 is right. The WASHINGTON REDSKINS are 20-29 as a TEAM.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:27 PM |
-----------------------

Good QBs rally their teams after the opponent scores.

See: Donovan McNabb last night.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21- Your opinion about JC is fine, it's your opinion. We just don't agree with your statement about Campbell being 20-29 and that's all there is to it....

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21 so he's "not very good" and you want to tender him next year? I was joking when I accused you of flip flopping but now it looks to be true. Be honest dude, this back and forth over JC is more about winning an argument than it is about the QB play. Right? The guy played great yesterday. He was universally praised by every talking head on TV. Yet, you're still at it.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Also, not high on Campbell today. Just realistic. Need a better option, not just change for change sake.
As I posted earlier, be careful what you wish for. In FA, you're looking at Leftwich. Or Carr. Or some other re-tread. In house, it's Babe Laufenberg Brennan. In the draft, it's Clausen/McCoy/Tebow.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:34 PM

Would you tender JC or sign him to a3-4 year deal?

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Depends on new CBA vs. no new CBA...whether he's restricted or unrestriced.
If he's unrestricted, it's a moot [or 'mute' in RI lingo] point...JC won't be able to get away from here fast enough.
If he's restricted, you tender him.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21 so he's "not very good" and you want to tender him next year? I was joking when I accused you of flip flopping but now it looks to be true. Be honest dude, this back and forth over JC is more about winning an argument than it is about the QB play. Right? The guy played great yesterday. He was universally praised by every talking head on TV. Yet, you're still at it.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2009 6:32 PM |
------------------------------
I'd make him an offer, and get something in return if another team wants him that badly. If he is here next year, no guarantee he starts - but having him around as a back-up wouldn't hurt, since Collins is approaching Social Security status.

And so he was "universally praised" by talking heads after a win at Oakland. So what?

What did you have to say when he was universally damned by the same talking heads after losses?

Don't hurt yourself trying to remember: I'll do it for you. You said people like Rodney Harrison and Boomer Esiason were haters.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Courtesy of the DC BOG.....

Anyhow, with all the vitriol on both sides, I figured we should at least make some small effort to gather a few facts. You could do this in lots of different ways; I chose to look at the 16 games in which Campbell and his offense received the ball with less than six minutes remaining, in a one-possession or tied game. I disregarded time-stopping spikes (not counting them as incompletions), and disregarded possessions that began with virtually no time remaining.

In those situations, Campbell has connected on two long touchdown passes for late-game wins (Carolina in '06, New Orleans in '08). He's also led two drives for game-winning field goals in overtime, although both were primarily run-based drives (Dolphins and Jets in '07). On the bad side, he's thrown four interceptions, been sacked five times, and fumbled three times.

In total, he's 44-82 for 584 yards, with those two touchdowns, those four interceptions, and a 64.3 quarterback rating. The Redskins are 4-12 in those 16 games.

Can we agree he's capable, just not clutch?

Posted by: ksquare | December 14, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

ARE is a decent #3WR. He should have been spending all his time working on that role.

Zorn should have told ARE that he was going to be pressed to keep his role as the #3 WR by the younger guys, and he needed to focus on keeping his WR job. And ... Zorn should have taken him off punt returns, since ARE has was ineffective in 2008.

Its another example of Zorn's problem as a HC. He had ARE do too much, instead of focusing him on where he could do the most good -- as a WR. Which hasn't be good for ARE or the team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Depends on new CBA vs. no new CBA...whether he's restricted or unrestriced.
If he's unrestricted, it's a moot [or 'mute' in RI lingo] point...JC won't be able to get away from here fast enough.
If he's restricted, you tender him.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 14, 2009 6:42 PM

I think it really depends ob what the new HC wants. If he (Shanahan) wants to build his offense around JC's skill set, and less face it that's what Sherm Lewis has done, then I sign him to a multi-year deal. If the new HC hasn't committed to JC then tender him, or let him walk depending on the CBA.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Can we agree he's capable, just not clutch?

Posted by: ksquare | December 14, 2009 6:56 PM

Yes we can.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

You aren't insulating him from criticism?

OK. Criticize Jason Campbell.

I'd like to hear your assessment of his play - pros/cons...


Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

How about you list his pros and I'll list his cons?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse


He has the arm strength to make deep and intermediate throws.

Generally has a good completion %, and protects the ball.

Good agility for a QB of his size and can pull the ball down and make runs to keep the chains moving.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Why are things going better for this offense? Sherm Lewis trust JC apparently Zorn didn't, yes the line is a little better(not a whole lot)but Lewis has apparently decided to trust JC with the game plan all phases of it,last year with the team 6-2 Zorn decided to dial back the offense especially when the O-line started to function poorly and i think Zorn was overmatched by opposing D-coordinators because of Zorn's inexperience and the team's anemic start this year offensively speaking, Vinny decided to bring in Lewis and once Lewis got a grasp of what he had to work with he acted accordingly, the result has been good not great the next three opponents(NY Dall.SD) will tell the tale if they win out and the offense performs well then i think Sherm Lewis will be Off.Coord. next season and JC will be signed for at least 3 yrs.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 14, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Can we agree he's capable, just not clutch?

Posted by: ksquare | December 14, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse


That's basically been my take on Campbell.

About a month ago, I even posted a number of drive by drive stats from several games this year that breaks down Campbell's play depending on the score.

When the Skins were down by 10 + points, he tended to play better than when the score was tied or the Skins were down by 1 score. Some of his best drives were end-of-game scenarios with victory already out of reach and defenses basically going to soft prevent.

My analysis? When defenses are working with a lead and they begin to slough off and let up, JC17 lights it up. When the pressure is on and the score is tight and defenses are really bringing it, he tends to wilt.

So the question is: How likely are we to win a Superbowl with a QB that has consistently come up small in the clutch?

That answer is not likely. Not unless we have one of those devastating game-owning defenses like the 2000 Ravens and big-time playmakers on special teams.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

p1funk the one thing that I've seen recently is that during games JC has been able to respond to being down except of course at the end of the. He has kept the team in the game by answering TDs with Tds etc, and in the second half of games, has generally given the team enough of a lead that they should the deal. The next step is for him to finish drives at the end of the halves and to close the deal when the defense gives up a lead. I think one poster posted that he led a good 2 min. drive @ end of the 1st half against the Raiders. Let's hope it continues.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21 that's quite a memory you have, recalling things I've never said.
But thanks for answering my question, it's obviously all about the arguing for you.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has played most of his career under the "just dont lose the game" philosophy that kind of softens a qb's positives as well as his negatives. Not so many td's, very few picks, not that many yards, high comp%

but what's become apparent this year is that he's the best player on our offense and as the gameplans have shifted towards burdening him with the load it seems the offense has functioned better.

He's not shown much clutchness so far in his career, but a strong oline solves so many qb problems. Just look how he played through the 1st half of last season.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Can we agree he's capable, just not clutch?

Posted by: ksquare

I've been a Campbell supporter throughout, and I'll agree he isn't clutch. In those 3 lossed (dal, philly and NO), he had the ball with a chance to tie or win with a FG -- and enough time to accomplish it. Two INTs and a 4 and out. Yuck.

On the other hand, he led drives in the 4th quarter in those 3 games, ALL of which could have put the Skins up two scores. Those drives ALL ended in FG attempts (2 missed, 1 made). In those 3 games, what was called on 1st, 2nd and 3rd downs immediately prior to the FG attempt on 4th down? In total, 8 runs, 1 pass.

Basically, Campbell succeeded on every one of those clutch drives, until the coaches pulled the plug on him and decided it was better to hand the ball off.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Are QB's leaders of their TEAMS? They are like Generals in battle, get too much blame and/or credit depending on the situation. It comes with the territory friends.
JC is a nice guy, doersn't seem to be much of a motivator though in clutch times. He is mediocre. I would like better for my team.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Criminey, every time Zorn speaks i wanna donkey punch him in the back of the head.

For nothing else, he should be fired for his retarded press utterances every week. Its embarrassing.

Can't wait to find out Wednesday which player is assuming a role Zorn has no clue about.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | December 14, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

""""According to an Associated Press report, Redskins assistant coach Stump Mitchell has had a preliminary telephone interview for Southern University's head coaching job."""
+++++++++++++++
Lets see...Gray trying to hook onto Memphis, Stump "honored" to be considered for Southern??
Odd that the Wash Post isnt pointing out that the Asst Coaches are spending more time looking for new jobs instead of focusing on the season and team at hand.

Guess the Skins ARE mathematically out of it..and the coaches know it.

Might these assistant coaches see the writing on the wall for Zorn, and are calling their agents to find them a place to land? Or, did Zorn tell them to start looking since Snyder has said as much to Zorn?

How piss-ed must Snyder be.. Zorn wont quit and Snyder cant fire him without a 6 million dollar buyout.
I believe Snyder thought Zorn would of quit from the humiliation of the play calling taken from him.. And Sherm Lewis would of stepped in, nicely, as the Head Coach.

I cannot be completely sympathetic to Zorn, though. He hasnt once given credit to the turn around of the team's Offense to Sherm Lewis... Not in any post game interviews or Radio/TV shows.. And he has been asked.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | December 14, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Are people not entitled to change their minds? I mean, until Jason Campbell leads the team to several 4th quarter come from behind wins, until he gets the team into the playoffs and wins, and until he brings home a championship we who believe he is incapable of that are right, and those that do are wrong.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse
------------------------------

Exactly.

But a few people on here treat Campbell as if he were some mentally-retarded child who is being unfairly picked on.

I think it's hilarious.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 3:10 PM

Posts of the last two years. Can he read a D and consistently throw the ball on time and help DC win games at better than a 35% clip? The wins in '09 have come against the Rams, Bucs and 2 teams where DC knocked out starting QB's w/no backup, in the first half. 4-9. HTTR

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

kaneohe,

do you want to punch someone all the time or just sometimes? maybe you need to chill a bit bra. You should be all laid back, but write as if you are driving inside the beltway during a snowstorm and there are three accidents ahead!
Deep breath and repeat.....

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

p1funk the one thing that I've seen recently is that during games JC has been able to respond to being down except of course at the end of the. He has kept the team in the game by answering TDs with Tds etc, and in the second half of games, has generally given the team enough of a lead that they should the deal. The next step is for him to finish drives at the end of the halves and to close the deal when the defense gives up a lead. I think one poster posted that he led a good 2 min. drive @ end of the 1st half against the Raiders. Let's hope it continues.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse


This season he was very inconsistent through the first 9 or so games.

Yes' he'd lead some TD drives to get us "back" in the game.

But the reason we were in a hole to begin with in many of those games was because he was playing god-awful and turning the ball over, some of which were leading directly to scores.

Again it's tough to give credit for mounting a valiant "almost" comeback when you were party to creating the conditions that required the "comeback" to begin with.

Overall, I he's been much much better in the past 2-3 games.

The problem is this: What are you supposed to do with the first 46 games that you watched him in? Just forget that those happened and hand him the keys to the franchise now that he's strung a couple good outings together?

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

LOL 1965.

I'm just tired of zorn's LAME ass. He IS a JOKE, and it IS emabarrasing to listen to his Stuart Smiley routine... "I'm good enough gosh darn it".

Loser.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | December 14, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

P1funk, the soup breakdown you did a few weeks ago was spot on.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Let's see how they do over the last three games.

I just hope Zorn is out, and ARE too.

As for QB, the whole point of playing in the NFL is to win a Super Bowl, and no one has tried to emulate the Ravens Super Bowl season with Trent Dilfer. It was an anomaly.

The Redskins need to be looking in-house and out for their QB of the future.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

P1funk, the soup breakdown you did a few weeks ago was spot on.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse


People like to throw end-of-game stats and ratings at you to try to make a point.

The thing that is relevant to winning/losing is WHEN in the game you are generating those good numbers.

JC17 has always posted respectable numbers...yet we've been losing more than winning due to lack of scoring.

We cut Suishy b/c he couldn't make kicks in the clutch despite an 85% avg...that same scrutiny should apply to QBs.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

I think what needs to be done is evaluate his play this year, more so than in the past. I think because he'll most likely be playing in a similar offense and with most of these same teammates that would be most appropriate. Clearly JC regressed at the beginning of the year. He has performed better during the later half of the year. What needs to be determined is if he's making the proper reads and understanding the offense by finding 3rd and 4th receivers. If things are starting to slow down for him, he might rise above his mediocre level. One thing I'd like to see is him, run a 2 min drive to win a game because as you've mentioned some guys never come through in the clutch.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

P1funk, the soup breakdown you did a few weeks ago was spot on.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse


People like to throw end-of-game stats and ratings at you to try to make a point.

The thing that is relevant to winning/losing is WHEN in the game you are generating those good numbers.

JC17 has always posted respectable numbers...yet we've been losing more than winning due to lack of scoring.

We cut Suishy b/c he couldn't make kicks in the clutch despite an 85% avg...that same scrutiny should apply to QBs.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:51 PM

Agreed. He was handed a playoff team w/o competing w/ the QB that led DC to the playoffs in 2007 and did not make it back in 2008. Another year of no comp for the starting job and it's 4-9. Four more wins at least this year according to Sonny. The best players should play to win all games possible; only 16 per reg. season.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

This season has mirrored Campbell's career - he played poorly during the first half when the season was on the line. Now that the season is over he has relaxed and is playing better. He and Zorn should be shown the door.

Posted by: coparker5 | December 14, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

This season has mirrored Campbell's career - he played poorly during the first half when the season was on the line. Now that the season is over he has relaxed and is playing better. He and Zorn should be shown the door.

Posted by: coparker5

And I'd argue that Campbell has played well when he has a decent OL and hasn't when his OL has been bad. And when the line has been bad, its been very very bad.

Campbell has specific areas where he needs to improve significantly. Last 2 minutes is one of those area -- I wonder if its because he's hearing Jim Zorn's voice. Heck, it drives us crazy here on the blog, and we're not hearing it 6 hours a day.

Thing is, Campbell does a lot of things well. He's 14th in passer rating despite a poor OL and a receiving corp that has had lots of growing pains this year. It does look like there is light at the end of the tunnel with the young WRs and the OL has been better of late -- and the results on the field have been better.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

This season has mirrored Campbell's career - he played poorly during the first half when the season was on the line. Now that the season is over he has relaxed and is playing better. He and Zorn should be shown the door.

Posted by: coparker5 | December 14, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse


That pretty much sums it up.

Though as TWIS mentioned it does seem like there is some progress in him reading defenses and finding receivers which is the god-awful annoying thing about his lukewarm play.

He's not totally hot, he's not totally cold. Good enough to get you hoping until the end, and then just bad enough to lose.


Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Did someone up here really give Sanchez credit for the Jets record? 53% completion rate, 11 TD's, 17 INT's. The Jets are winning in spite of him.

Posted by: mattylight | December 14, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

And I'd argue that Campbell has played well when he has a decent OL and hasn't when his OL has been bad. And when the line has been bad, its been very very bad.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse


Beg to differ there. Our Oline was pass-blocking pretty well for the first couple games of the year this season. JC17 still played like crap.

It wasn't until Week 5 and the Panthers when we lost Samuels and the Oline went to complete and total shambles.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

I love this blog.

The skins lose, folks complain.

The skins win, folks complain.

It's like being in a car full of kids who all want to get to the playground.

Thing is, they hate the ride.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

You just can't count sacks. You have to count hurries and knock downs, we all see that they make a difference. Look at how Tom Brady and Manning (either one) perform when they are constantly getting chased and/or hit. JC has done admirably, all things considered. He has been shell shocked after the first few series most games. Learning the west coast offense takes 2 years approximately and longer without enough time to practice going through progressions. He's not a manning or brady, but he is better than a Cutler.

Posted by: Copious1 | December 14, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

I watched this game live and knew I didn't want him starting for DC. His nearly 50 DC starts encapsulated in less than 2 minutes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbqLwbfu2M

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

This is not a team that is ready to contend for a title...

HOWEVER, for the first time, we have young, hungry players rather than overpaid, over-the-hill veterans.

I think we have a good core of young talent...we now need speed on offense and an upgrade at O-line

I WOULD NOT CUT ANY OF THESE OLINEMAN WE HAVE NOW...this is your depth right here.

I think Mike Williams is your starting Right Guard, we've got Dockery on the left. Groom Edwin Williams to replace Rabach and get a couple of Tackles, and there's your O-line

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Vinny deserves some credit for what he has done. As much as we rip him (much is deserved), his 2008 draft has several contributers...Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Moore, Tryon, Horton and Jackson...Rinehart and Brooks are the BUSTS

Orakpo was a slam dunk and Barnes and Jarmon may be keepers.

That's all you can ask of your draft is to have your young talent to contribute.

Vinny did not adequately address the O-Line and they do a poor job of keeping business in house.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Vinny deserves some credit for what he has done. As much as we rip him (much is deserved), his 2008 draft has several contributers...Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Moore, Tryon, Horton and Jackson...Rinehart and Brooks are the BUSTS

Orakpo was a slam dunk and Barnes and Jarmon may be keepers.

That's all you can ask of your draft is to have your young talent to contribute.

Vinny did not adequately address the O-Line and they do a poor job of keeping business in house.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 8:50 PM

Agreed. Vinny just won an award.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVYjRbZMe0

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

We cut Suishy b/c he couldn't make kicks in the clutch despite an 85% avg...that same scrutiny should apply to QBs.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

are we still defending swish? Enough. Missing a 23 yarder has nothing to do with clutch. It's horrible regardless of situation. Add to that two shots inside 50 missed and you have a guy that shouldn't be defended. Won't even go into previous years' futility.

I'm all for moving on from el, demoting guys if they're not performing, but comparing jc, Laron or anybody else (except MAYBE el) to swish is crazy. Any of them cut tonight, they'd be signed tomorrow. Where are all the teams looking to sign Shaun?

Posted by: AdamCr | December 14, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

jeez, i just realized that in three weeks the actual redskins season starts...THE OFFSEASON! we win that every year!!!!

Posted by: BMACattack | December 14, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Here's Locker beating USC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhTjtK2EcWc

Posted by: Realness1 | December 14, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Remember that load of crap Zorn fed us about Davis/Thomas/Kelly?

"they're close"

"Devin's coming along"

"they have to earn their way on the field"

BULLSH*T!!!!

These kids can play...and the fact that they didn't get on the field sooner should cost Zorn his job.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

These kids can play...and the fact that they didn't get on the field sooner should cost Zorn his job.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Dude, you should change your handle to rickyrage.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

And I'd argue that Campbell has played well when he has a decent OL and hasn't when his OL has been bad. And when the line has been bad, its been very very bad.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse


Beg to differ there. Our Oline was pass-blocking pretty well for the first couple games of the year this season. JC17 still played like crap.

It wasn't until Week 5 and the Panthers when we lost Samuels and the Oline went to complete and total shambles.

Posted by: p1funk

game 1: 3 sacks, 3.5 yds per carry by RBs
game 2: 1 sacks, 3.7 yds per carry by RBs
game 3: 1 sacks, 3.4 yds per carry by RBs
game 4: 3 sacks, 3.8 yds per carry by RBs
game 5: 5 sacks, 3.2 yds per carry by RBs

The OL wasn't that good early on, either, especially considering the teams we were playing. Also, Thomas went down in game 2, if I recall.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

"The OL wasn't that good early on, either, especially considering the teams we were playing."


I think what we've all failed to acknowledge is that the change in skill position players--Thomas for Randle El, Davis for Cooley, quicker backs for Portis--has made up for a lot of the issues we saw early on.

The younger guys on the roster have filled in quite nicely, and Campbell's progress has followed.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

VINNY's latest machinations as GM reek less badly after a win. That said, he has gotten a number of good players since he was let off his short leash by the ownership before last season. I think he may be retained.

ZORN has to go. He just isn't ready to be a head coach.

CAMPBELL should stay IMHO unless we get a one and a two pick as SONNY said. I like the idea of either.

CP's vision must clear before he plays again. If that doesn't, he's guaranteed a lot of money. I do think whoever gave him that diva deal should be held accountable. Was that GIBBS?

FREE AGENTS on the REDSKINS in March are:

OFFENSE:

JASON CAMPBELL
TODD YODER
STEPHON HEYER - RFA

DEFENSE:

PHILLIP DANIELS
KEDRICK GOLSTON
ANTHONY MONTGOMERY
LORENZO ALEXANDER
ROCKY McINTOSH
ROBERT THOMAS
CARLOS ROGERS
REED DOUGHTY
HUNTER SMITH

I would sign all but HENSON. Even HEYER. We're in a position where it will take multiple o-linemen to correct its deficiencies.

Start with SMITH this week. Sign PHILLIP DANIELS to another one-year minimum deal, and let RENALDO WINN go with our many thanks for a job well done as a REDSKIN.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

are we still defending swish? Enough. Missing a 23 yarder has nothing to do with clutch. It's horrible regardless of situation. Add to that two shots inside 50 missed and you have a guy that shouldn't be defended. Won't even go into previous years' futility.

I'm all for moving on from el, demoting guys if they're not performing, but comparing jc, Laron or anybody else (except MAYBE el) to swish is crazy. Any of them cut tonight, they'd be signed tomorrow. Where are all the teams looking to sign Shaun?

Posted by: AdamCr | December 14, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse


To answer your question whether we are still defending Suish - the answer is NO!

My point is that we were justified in cutting him based on the fact that he's not clutch.

My point is that QBs (specifically JC17) needs to come under that same scrutiny.

Stop throwing QB ratings at me.

Tell me how he's performed in the clutch in the 49 games he's played in.

His 20-29 record - playing with some Top 10 defenses along the way - helps provide an answer.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Let Daniels go so Orakpo can be at DE full time

You have to sign everyone on that list except Carlos and Thomas

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

@glawrence-do you really have to ask who gave Portis the diva deal? All glaring signs point to the Danny.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

game 1: 3 sacks, 3.5 yds per carry by RBs
game 2: 1 sacks, 3.7 yds per carry by RBs
game 3: 1 sacks, 3.4 yds per carry by RBs
game 4: 3 sacks, 3.8 yds per carry by RBs
game 5: 5 sacks, 3.2 yds per carry by RBs

The OL wasn't that good early on, either, especially considering the teams we were playing. Also, Thomas went down in game 2, if I recall.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse


First, I was talking about pass-blocking, so the YPC stat is irrelevant.

3 sacks against the G-Men, but at least one of them was JC's fault - the strip sack from Osi where he didn;t step up in the pocket.

The Tampa game was brutal all around.

Otherwise we are talking about 1 sack games.

Chris Samuels got injured and came out early in the Panthers game and things went to crap.

The stats bear out my point.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I think Stump is one of those coaches Zorn brought in - maybe the only one Zorn picked - that deserves to stick around. I am sure he is reading the writing on the wall with Zorn, however, and he's probably thinking real hard about Southern.

Maybe Portis will retire in the offseason and he can come back to coach. Now, there would be justice: Portis having to motivate his running backs to put in hard work all season long...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 14, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Because of the Skin's misfortune and subsequent readily available tickets I attended my 3rd skins game this year.I had a blast last week at the Saints game talking smack to Saints fans and ultimately losing a heart breaker.I'm impressed with the character on this team and hope we retain the entire coaching staff and quarterback.If you think I'm crazy wait til we bury the playoff hopes of both the cowboys and giants with a group of nonames.I love this bunch of guys including Randle El,he is simply pressing on special teams and should be benched temporarily from those duties.But Randle El is our best slot receiver and converts as many 3rd downs as anyone.Jason Campbell is beginning to get comfortable in this system and I will be disappointed if he is not at least competing for the starting job next year.

Posted by: mark65 | December 14, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Best Case Scenario:

Skins trade their high first-round pick for a pick in the mid-20s and a second-rounder. Then draft Jahvid Best with the 1st rounder, and a tackle and guard in the second. Oh and by the way keep Campbell and Rogers.

Posted by: mardiros | December 14, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

In an uncapped year, we could see the REDSKINS really clear payroll. I see the potential for CP, MIKE SELLERS and ARE gone in REDSKINS' uni's.

If we trade CC47, we should get at least a 1st in return, maybe a sixth as well. If JC is tendered and traded we should get a 1st and a third at least.

That's three first rounders and a pick in every other round if things fall into place.

I'm not crazy for the trades, but it could really give us a leg up on filling the spots we need.

First round, CLAUSEN QB, DWYER RB, BRUCE CAMPBELL OT; CIRON BLACK OT, second, MIKE JOHNSON OG second.

Clearing all that payroll would allow us to sign ATOGWE or COLLINS at FS, DUNTA ROBINSON CB, and KEITH BULLOCK SSLB in FA.

The thing I don't like is losing JC. I think he should be signed for two and retained, mainly because I don't like any of the QB choices in the draft this year.

That would make this rebuild a two year process because we would have one less first and second pick.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I think Stump is one of those coaches Zorn brought in - maybe the only one Zorn picked - that deserves to stick around. I am sure he is reading the writing on the wall with Zorn, however, and he's probably thinking real hard about Southern.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 14, 2009 10:37 PM

I'd also add Chris Miedts who has been integral in the game planning. I think he has a bright future as well.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

@glawrence-do you really have to ask who gave Portis the diva deal? All glaring signs point to the Danny.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Not all minds are as incisive as yours campbell. Sorry to trouble you.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

A repost of mine from early today. Wanted to examine VC's unfettered body of work. VINNIE's picks since he's been "freed" by SNYDER.

2008 DRAFT:

DEVIN THOMAS - 2
FRED DAVIS - 2
MALCOLM KELLY - 2
CHAD RINEHART - 3
JUSTIN TRYON - 4
DURANT BROOKS - 5
KAREEM MOORE - 6
COLT BRENNAN - 6
ROB JACKSON - 7
CHRIS HORTON - 7 Supplemental

2009:

BRIAN ORAKPO - 1
KEVIN BARNES - 3
CODY GLENN - 5
ROBERT HENSON - 6
EDWIN WILLIAMS - 7
MARKO MITCHELL - 7 Supplemental

JEREMY JARMON - 3 in 2010
HUNTER SMITH - FA
GRAHAN GANO - FA

I probably missed someone. VC has not hit on much in the fifth round in two tries, but he's delivering otherwise. Anything from four on down is a crap-shoot anyway. Look at what he's brought in via the draft at four and below.

KEEPERS:

JUSTIN TRYON - I never thought I'd say it.
KAREEM MOORE - I'm clueless I guess.
COLT BRENNAN - No chance to play. Doesn't fit in a structured system. He's a BRETT FAVRE-type of offensive player who needs to free-lance.
ROB JACKSON - coming into his own ala CHRIS WILSON.
CHRIS HORTON - great run defense, good coverage skills, but hurt too much.
EDWIN WILLIAMS - solid future contributor
MARKO MITCHELL - great potential. Must play to develop. Will take ARE's slot.

BUST OUTS:

DURANT BROOKS - wasted pick, but VC learned. Got HUNTER SMITH as a replacement. Check.
CODY GLENN - Funky.
ROBERT HENSON - the odd-man out in the LB derby. We need a strong OLB so BRIAN can consistantly get his hands in the dirt.

Pretty good average. MITCHELL could become a big star in this league, but he's got to fight the 2-pick trio. I see him here, and ARE a ghost next year. In two years, I think EDWIN WILLIAMS could make people ask RANDY who?

NOW, how has the VINNSTER done with picks who should contribute in a big way for this club, namely, first, second, third rounders.

ROUND 1:

BRIAN ORAKPO - wow, bling, bling, bling!!!!

ROUND 2:

DEVIN THOMAS - producing solid numbers once he committed to the program here.

FRED DAVIS - giving CC a real run for his money, offensively at least.

MALCOLM KELLY - slow, but steady progress.

ROUND 3:

CHAD RINEHART - problematic at best.

KEVIN BARNES - showing signs of life in a one-dimensional way. Unfortunately, that's run support only at this point. Cover skills not good so far.

Overall, I would give the BAG-MAN a "B", mostly for MITCHELL et. al. late round picks.


Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp

Does it sound like JC wants to be a Skin next year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm just tired of zorn's LAME ass. He IS a JOKE, and it IS emabarrasing to listen to his Stuart Smiley routine... "I'm good enough gosh darn it".

Loser.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | December 14, 2009 7:46 PM


`

I'd attribute(speculate) Zorn's devout faith in Christianity as reason he act's unique/like a clueless temp for Danny and Vin.

I'm definitely not used to that , but it makes me laugh. I think the players like him.

Zorn gave the veterans what they asked for during training camp and no surprise the players who probably slept at the facility are the ones who are shining on the field; or at least they are not injured.

Clearly Zorn and Smith can put together a gameplan for Sunday and as long as Lewis is calling the plays the offense is clicking! Everyone has been in the offense for 2 years and you can see that they are starting to execute versus thinking during the play.

Zorns playcalling was okay; Remember the 'Casserly Video'

Can't help but wonder if JC had connected on some of them open throws? He looked like he was still thinking AND now he looks very decisive. Give him one more year in the same system!


Posted by: Vicc | December 14, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

These kids can play...and the fact that they didn't get on the field sooner should cost Zorn his job.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Dude, you should change your handle to rickyrage.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:12 PM


that's funny

Posted by: Vicc | December 14, 2009 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

agree with most of that, but please let's stop using colt an favre in the same sentence. It's not fair to colt and an insult to favre. Also, I give morocco brown a lot of the credit for our late round picks.

Posted by: AdamCr | December 14, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

@glawrence-do you really have to ask who gave Portis the diva deal? All glaring signs point to the Danny.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Not all minds are as incisive as yours campbell. Sorry to trouble you.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:44 PM |

I believe you mean sarcastic and bitter.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Zorns playcalling was okay; Remember the 'Casserly Video'

Can't help but wonder if JC had connected on some of them open throws? He looked like he was still thinking AND now he looks very decisive. Give him one more year in the same system!

Posted by: Vicc

Vicc,

You asked me a few days ago if I would keep Zorn. As much as I hate to say it, the answer would be yes as long as he's not calling plays.

Skins fans get pissed with the constant changes that has occured under Snyder, yet they (yes I'm guilty too) demand the same turnover when something doesn't go well.

Stability is desperately needed and I think we need that versus changing systems AGAIN!

Posted by: dcwun | December 14, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I think Stump is one of those coaches Zorn brought in - maybe the only one Zorn picked - that deserves to stick around. I am sure he is reading the writing on the wall with Zorn, however, and he's probably thinking real hard about Southern.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 14, 2009 10:37 PM

I'd also add Chris Miedts who has been integral in the game planning. I think he has a bright future as well.

Posted by: TWISI

Another La Canhater and J Reid creation. I'm pretty sure Zorn selected all of the offensive coaches except Buges and the WR coach.

Posted by: dcwun | December 15, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

You asked me a few days ago if I would keep Zorn. As much as I hate to say it, the answer would be yes as long as he's not calling plays.

Stability is desperately needed and I think we need that versus changing systems AGAIN!

Posted by: dcwun

Agree. Zorn said teams get the WCO late in the second year. Guess what? It's late in the second year an the 'skins have averaged 28+ points a game.

The offense is varied, imaginative and potent. It especially took a while for the Terrific trio to "get it," and for the Oline to "get it" and for Campbell to "get it."

They have scored all these points with four-five pro bowl quality offensive players not playing.

The system appears to work, give it time. Don't be like Snyder and grab for the latest shiny new object.

Yeah, I'm sayin' it: Bring back Zorn.

Posted by: TheCork | December 15, 2009 2:18 AM | Report abuse

For me, the offseason should be about getting a real GM. THe GM can decide if Zorn should stay or go (should be an easy call, Zorn goes). The GM can decide if Cerrato stays or goes (I'd prefer gone, but he does OK on college talent evals, so if you limit his scope ...). The GM should decide with the HC on Campbell (I prefer he stays).

For me, if a real GM comes in (like a Polian) and gets rid of everyone I think should stay and keeps everyone I'd dump, I'd get behind what the new GM is doing.

But I get that sense that this offseason will be 'every man for himself'. And if Vinny holds onto his job, it will be Snyder's greatest blunder.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2009 3:16 AM | Report abuse

"The QB is the player who handles the ball on every offensive play. Not Moss, not Portis, not Albright."

And??? What happens when the defense gives up bombs to Desean Jackson like in the Eagles game? Is that Campbell's fault? Or when the kicker misses field goals? I guess that's his fault as well.

posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

I think we should blamme it all on the Center who handles the ball first on every
offensive play, not the QB.

JC is a keeper. Anyone who can take hits like he has deserves some slack. Too, I just love to see it when he runs the ball; he doesn't always slide, and keeps the ball forward when he runs. He's a team-player in my book. The physical hits he takes during games, and the personal hits he takes from his own FO shows he has a great deal of character and professional poise... Keep him on the team; I hope he agrees to stay.

Posted by: DeployedFan | December 15, 2009 3:57 AM | Report abuse

You asked me a few days ago if I would keep Zorn. As much as I hate to say it, the answer would be yes as long as he's not calling plays.

Stability is desperately needed and I think we need that versus changing systems AGAIN!

Posted by: dcwun

Agree. Zorn said teams get the WCO late in the second year. Guess what? It's late in the second year an the 'skins have averaged 28+ points a game.

The offense is varied, imaginative and potent. It especially took a while for the Terrific trio to "get it," and for the Oline to "get it" and for Campbell to "get it."

They have scored all these points with four-five pro bowl quality offensive players not playing.

The system appears to work, give it time. Don't be like Snyder and grab for the latest shiny new object.

Yeah, I'm sayin' it: Bring back Zorn.

Posted by: TheCork

Hope you are wrong. Players were uninspired and not ready to play in the first half of the year. That is on Zorn. Zorn has been indecisive far too often and has made too many bad decisions. Heck, ARE is still the punt returner. Just because Zorn isn't all bad, doesn't mean he brings enough to the table to warrant keeping this job.

Half the coaches in the NFL know the West Coast offense. Zorn isn't bringing anything unique on that front.

As for our last 5 games, our 2W-3L 'streak' of decent football, both wins came with awful backup QBs playing the 2nd half against us. The Raiders are bad and we led by just 4 points after 3 quarters. Try not to let that one dominant quarter of football on Sunday cloud your brain. If Gradkowski and Orton had stayed healthy, its very possible this team would be 2-11.

Yes, we almost beat the Saints. Atlanta almost beat them with a backup QB and their great RB out of action. Had the Rams hit a Hail Mary from 40 yards out on the game's last play, they would have beaten the Saints. Being competitive and losing is a too low a bar for the Redskins HC.

Get rid of Zorn? Absolutely

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2009 4:13 AM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight: a 3 touchdown win in Oakland warrants bringing back a coach who lost at home to KC and can't win a division game? Really? Are we REALLY setting the bar this low?

He's still who we thought he was. I give him credit for keeping the troops going in tough times, but I don't see him leading this team to anything but a consistent string of 8-8 seasons. I'm all for continuity, but I'd rather start that continuity with a guy we feel we can win with, not just the guy who's in the building at the time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 6:20 AM | Report abuse

I agree that I can't think of two undefeated teams in recent memory who looked more vulnerable than NO and Indy. Wouldn't be particularly surprised if neither makes the Super Bowl.

Still, the Skins are playing better. Doesn't mean Jim Zorn should be coach next season, and I doubt he will be. At the season's beginning I said that Washington was the sort of team that could finish 11-5 or 5-11, and we can see which end of the scale that ended up on.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 15, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

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