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Posted at 9:05 AM ET, 02/21/2011

Report: Redskins to host safety O.J. Atogwe today

By Mike Jones

Updated, 5:15 p.m.: All appears to be quiet at Redskins Park, where free agent safety O.J. Atogwe was reportedly scheduled to visit today. It's unclear if the sixth-year veteran did indeed meet with Redskins officials, however. His agent, Ken Landphere, didn't respond to email and voicemails.


Original post:
The Washington Redskins are having free agent safety Oshiomogho Atogwe in for a visit today, according to Howard Balzer of St. Louis' ESPN 101.

Free safety is a position the Redskins are expected to upgrade this offseason after Kareem Moore struggled both with performance and injury last season. And Atogwe, whom the Rams released on Friday to avoid paying him an $8 million signing bonus, could be a good fit. He already is familiar with defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, having played for him in St. Louis from 2006 to 2008.

The 29-year-old Atogwe is strong in pass coverage, having recorded 22 interceptions in six seasons. His best season was 2007, when he notched eight interceptions while playing under Haslett. Last season the 5-foot-11, 205-pound Atogwe recorded 73 tackles, nine pass deflections and three interceptions.

Balzer reports that Atogwe was the Rams' franchise player in 2009, and then was a restricted free agent last season and sought a contract that would pay him $7 million a year, but he eventually re-signed with the Rams last June.

Now Atogwe is testing his value on the open market. But he isn't closing the door on a return to St. Louis.

"This is an opportunity for me to explore other options," Atogwe told Balzer. "It doesn't mean the Rams aren't still an option. A door has been opened so I can really see if this is where I'm supposed to continue to be or if I am supposed to go elsewhere. It gives me and my family more options to make a decision."

If Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen conduct this visit as they have other free agent meetings, they won't sign Atogwe to a contract today, but instead he would leave and continue to talk to other teams gauging his worth. That's not saying a signing definitely wouldn't come today, however. That's just been the trend. Stay tuned.

By Mike Jones  | February 21, 2011; 9:05 AM ET
 
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Comments

The more I consider this, the more I say get him. FS is a huge hole for us right now. Landry and Otagwe would lock down the backfield and that would be a huge step in improving out horrid defense.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 9:31 AM | Report abuse

AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

This is my 12 year-old girl at a Justin Bieber concert scream.

Co-sign with waiting guilty.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Our defense definitely hit the skids once Landry went down. Atogwe is a nice complement for LaRon. Moore is a natural backup, given his health issues. Fewer snaps could well mean better availability. Haslett's scheme puts a lot of pressure on his safeties. When they falter, so does the defense.

Doughty can handle the rare start, because he prepares well, but he's not the answer either.

Hate to think this is just Atogwe using the Skins to amp up his offer from the Rams, however. Steve Spagnuolo is a defensive coach and players like playing for him.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 21, 2011 9:38 AM | Report abuse

beep-beep

Didn't people say the same thing last year about Bradford?...You never know how long it will take these guys to develop.


That's why the draft is such a gamble.

There is no 'sure fire' method of gauging when a 22-24 year old kid is ready to lead something as complex as an NFL offense.

But what's worse is the fear of drafting him because some dude back in the day failed to live up to whatever dreams you had for him.

Fear says do nothing, hope says, try again.

The colts bombed with drafting J Elway and J George, but still took the gamble on P Manning.

No matter the fail, they kept reaching until they drafted an elite quarterback.

Redskin fans still cite H Shuler and P Ramsey as reasons not to draft a quarterback high.

And when you bring in the Curious Case of Jason Campbell, they all morph into little old babies and die crying.

And we need to die trying.

We need a quarterback to be drafted at 10 or in the second round.

And hopefully, we find a true player.

And we can't say how he'll do, but we will say if we're lucky, we might be thanking god we did something.

As opposed to nothing.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 9:39 AM | Report abuse

How has he performed in a 3-4? If we're still committed to it?

Posted by: onanygivensunday | February 21, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

This would be a great signing. This is a need for the skins.

Posted by: heatseeker690069 | February 21, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm kind of 50-50 on this.

On one hand:

We really don't have a FS and being 29 or 30 isn't that big of a deal for that particular position.

Barnes can go back to developing as a CB.

On the other hand:

What if Barnes wants to start at FS? What if we draft a young FS? Then Atogwe will be stopping our younger players from developing and FS will ecome a hole again by the time we are competitive.

Anyway, I doubt we sign him. He's probably going to be looking for a nice sized contract and will probably just resign with the Rams.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 9:45 AM | Report abuse

This is a no brainer. We have a big hole at FS. I know it would seem like a vinny thing to do but don't let this guy leave the complex without signing. Have Landry gard the door and keep OJ there to he puts pen to paper. I don't see any better opion for us.

Barns looked good but he is a CB not FS. This should be a no brainer.

full disclosure.....there is another PAskins fan on here that posts regurly. I am not him.

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 9:45 AM | Report abuse

wow I just read my post and the spelling was awfull. Sorry they stop teaching spelling in 2nd grade up here in PA

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Barnes looked good but he is a CB not FS. This should be a no brainer.

There are advantages to playing a corner at free safety, but not the other way around.

Having a guy with corner coverage skills/speed playing deep has its advantages in the pass Happy Ways of the NFC East--and we face the even more pass happy AFC East next year.

Barnes can tackle like a linebacker and cover deep like a corner--why wouldn't you want such a player supporting LL at safety?

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 9:53 AM | Report abuse

With CR22 and PB31 not certin to return next year, I think barns could be better used as a nickle back possible a starting CB some day.

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Barnes can tackle like a linebacker and cover deep like a corner--why wouldn't you want such a player supporting LL at safety?

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 9:53 AM | Report abuse

The only concern is when he takes on one of the LB sized RBs head on. The hit he put on Jacobs takes a much bigger toll on his body than it would on a bigger guy. We face Jacobs twice a year and Marion Barber twice a year. That being said, I would still let him play. I personally think he'd be fine but I can understand the opposing viewpoint. The other thing is that we aren't that deep at CB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 9:57 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan 17, what part of PA you from?

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:00 AM | Report abuse

This is one of those distractors the Skins recent past has been famous for. Big name free agent, looks like a star, cut by his old team for contract problems. Gosh it sounds tempting and we do need Free Safety types, but he is looking for a huge salary and that is the problem the Rams (who should know best) say he is not worth. Would he be an improvement at FS, yes. Would he improve the overall defense, yes. But is he that one missing piece the defense needs, no. Don't break the bank on one player. He is 29 and by time we are in position for true contention, he is probably 32 or more and sitting on IR. Use the money on several players who have been sitting on the bench waiting for their shot behind other teams stars. That is where you can find the hidden gems. Just go down the Pro Bowl rosters, and figure out who is that guys backup and is he available. Good chance you can find a quality player who just needs his shot.

Posted by: TwoCents5 | February 21, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

The only concern is when he takes on one of the LB sized RBs head on.


Actually, that's a problem for any player on defense, isn't it?

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan 17, what part of PA you from?

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Southcentral. I'm in moe's alma mater good old shippensburg. Some people don't realize it but we're actually closer to the Redskins than we are to the Steelers or Eagles. What part of PA are you from?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

We face Jacobs twice a year and Marion Barber twice a year.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 9:57 AM


Both of those guys are in danger of getting cut by their respective teams this offseason, so I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about that.

Barnes looked decent at FS last year, but not enough that we can sit on our hands and think we're set there. Isn't that the same line of thinking that led to passing on Atogwe last year in favor of Moore?

My stance all along is get Atogwe IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. Something along the lines of a "show me" contract, one of the incentive laden deals that's high on salary and low on guarantees...that way if you find out Barnes is a real player at FS, you can move on from Atogwe with little to no cap impact.

He's potentially a high impact/low risk pickup with experience in the system. To me, this is a no-brainer if we get the money straight...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 10:07 AM | Report abuse

He is 29 and by time we are in position for true contention, he is probably 32 or more and sitting on IR.

Posted by: TwoCents5 | February 21, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Thank you.

This is central to the overall point. I'm sure Atogwe will perform admirably over the next couple of years.

Of course, over the next couple years the plan is - supposedly - to develop a new QB and WR corps and find some young 3-4 Dlineman to coach up; so what are we really planning on competing for over that time?

30+ free agents DO NOT fit into rebuilding schemes, unless they come CHEAP.

Nothing about Atogwe - who held out last year for $$ and got cut 1 year into his new deal - says "sign me on the cheap".

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 10:12 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan 17, what part of PA you from?

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Southcentral. I'm in moe's alma mater good old shippensburg. Some people don't realize it but we're actually closer to the Redskins than we are to the Steelers or Eagles. What part of PA are you from?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Currently live in Harrisburg grew up around Pittsburgh in a town called Johnstown. All of my famliy is from Bowie MD, so I grew up a skins fan

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:16 AM | Report abuse

All these cut vet guys come to D.C. 1st.

Why is that?: money, what else.

They come here thinking Vinny Cerrato and the Ever-Expanding Checkbook are still runnin' thangs.

Hopefully, Shanallen will let a lot of these guys leave town empty-handed as there are some nice, younger FA choices to be had once the labor issues are resolved.

It would be nice to add Rogers, O.J., Plax, et al., but smarter to 'wait-n-see' what's on the market once the NFLPA V. League dust settles.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:16 AM | Report abuse

To me, this is a no-brainer if we get the money straight...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 10:07 AM

This is your stance on every name we see. "Low wages, league minimum, incentives, make him earn it, ..." You just said it about Gallery.

There is a market for this guy -- and for all the other free agents we would be interested in. Do you really want only the free agents that no other team wants? Joey Galloway? Roydell Williams?

There will be three or four teams bidding for his services. The only way he will come to the Redskins is if we pay more than those other teams. He's not coming here out of love for Haslett, Snyder, or anyone else. He's a pro. He plays for pay.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Did Atogwe fly in on a commercial flight or did they bring him in on Redskins 1?

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I've already put in my two cents for going younger...having said that Otogwe is by no means washed up and is an upgrade no doubt. I wouldn't be pissed if they took a shot at him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I'm in moe's alma mater good old shippensburg...


I graduated in 1986.

Has the town recovered yet?

No?

I didn't think so.

Most people attend the College of Hard Knocks.

But when I was in college, I was knockin' them back hard.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Shaun Rogers came here.

Walked away with no contract.

Vinny is no longer in charge.

Otagwe will leave with no contract, but might come back later to sign.

I do hope we get him, but not Shaun Rogers.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 10:23 AM | Report abuse

It would be nice to add Rogers, O.J., Plax, et al., but smarter to 'wait-n-see' what's on the market once the NFLPA V. League dust settles.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:16 AM | Report abuse


No it wouldn't be nice to add those guys.

It would be horrible.

It would be the same old give-a-contract-to-a-30-year-old-who-made-a-name-for-himself-on-someone-else's-team kind of business that has kept this franchise in the dregs of the NFL for a decade.

Even if they come "cheap", they are just taking snaps away from young guys that need PT to develop.

Joey Galloway came cheap.
Maake Keomatu came cheap.
Larry Johnson came cheap.

If we walk away from FA with a haul of Shaun ROgers, OJ Atogwe and Plaxico Freakin' BUrress, I might go out and shoot myself in the thigh...

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 10:25 AM | Report abuse

The only way he will come to the Redskins is if we pay more than those other teams. He's not coming here out of love....


So, if you are going to pay for a vet, which one is worth the money?


a. Shaun Rogers

b. O.J. Atogwe

c. Plaxico Burress

d. let's want to see who else is availiable

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:28 AM | Report abuse

So, if you are going to pay for a vet, which one is worth the money?


a. Shaun Rogers

b. O.J. Atogwe

c. Plaxico Burress

d. let's want to see who else is availiable

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:28 AM

b. O.J. Atogwe

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

a. Shaun Rogers

b. O.J. Atogwe

c. Plaxico Burress

d. let's want to see who else is availiable

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I've never heard anything bad about this OJ.

He's the only one on the list that doesn't have some gun-related nonsense in his past.

I remember him returning a fumble for a touchdown against us.

Yeah, if we were to pay one of those guys, it's definitely Juice II.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 10:33 AM | Report abuse

F. Antonio Pierce

wait..what was the question....

Hang on...can I change that to G. Marcus Mason....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 10:35 AM | Report abuse

I've already put in my two cents for going younger...having said that Otogwe is by no means washed up and is an upgrade no doubt. I wouldn't be pissed if they took a shot at him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 10:20 AM

Ditto that which is sort of a flip flop for me. If the team structures the deal correctly, they can pay OJ while grooming a younger player who can become a full time starter in 2 to 3 years.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Get him! (At a reasonable price of course, and with a contract that doesn't hurt the Skins)

Bruce seems to be pretty sneaky and smart about contracts, so I trust him to do the right thing.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Currently live in Harrisburg grew up around Pittsburgh in a town called Johnstown. All of my famliy is from Bowie MD, so I grew up a skins fan

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:16 AM


Whatup neighbor? I live in Harrisburg too...can't make a move back to MD fast enough though...

Beep, I'm not sure what's wrong with my stance...don't go after big name players, but if you can get a bargain on a mid/high level FA, go for it. I'll wait for the part where that's a bad thing...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 10:44 AM | Report abuse

don't go after big name players, but if you can get a bargain on a mid/high level FA, go for it. I'll wait for the part where that's a bad thing...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 10:44 AM

The bad thing? You get what you pay for. You get guys like Joey Galloway and you miss out on O. J. Atogwe.

"Look, O. J., we can only pay you the league minimum but we have a lot of incentives so that you can make as much as that guaranteed money they're showing you in Minnesota. If you're all you say you are, you'd be crazy not to sign with the Redskins."

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Pick this man up. Save draft picks to get quality starters or backups in depleted areas.

Posted by: noluvdr | February 21, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Currently live in Harrisburg grew up around Pittsburgh in a town called Johnstown. All of my famliy is from Bowie MD, so I grew up a skins fan

Posted by: PASkinsFan82 | February 21, 2011 10:16 AM


Whatup neighbor? I live in Harrisburg too...can't make a move back to MD fast enough though...


Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Looks like a Harrisburg party on RI today. I'm currently working in Harrisburg.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Looks like a Harrisburg party on RI today. I'm currently working in Harrisburg.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 10:54 AM

I drove through Harrisburg more than a dozen times!

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 11:00 AM | Report abuse

a. Shaun Rogers

b. O.J. Atogwe

c. Plaxico Burress

d. let's want to see who else is availiable

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 10:28 AM | Report abuse
_______

We really, really, need a stud nose tackle. Every fiber of my being screams "no" to Shaun Rogers b/c of who he is and how old he is, except one, which says that if he could be a strong NT for a couple of years, this would free us up to draft some additional needs and wait to draft a top-quality NT until next year or the year after. Atogwe would be good, but I be we can find a competant FS somewhere else who'll be cheaper. Maybe I'm nuts....

Posted by: skinsfan713 | February 21, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

1. Skins need more guys on the roster named Oshiomogho. [While they're at it, they can add more guys with the last name Williams ... Roydell is on his way out.]

2. No body up here has said a peep about a free safety in the draft. With two first day picks and then a nap on draft day two waiting for day three, the Skins still need free agency.

3. If they ARE unable to re-sign Carlos Rogers, then Barnes might be pressed into a starter slot at corner anyway.

4. Thirty years is not too old. This would still be the guy's first post-rookie contract. He was a third round pick, received the highest tender as an RFA and then was tagged. He has a known value ($32M, five year contract) that Rams already negotiated with him before they cut him ISO a better bargain with him. This is his FIRST TIME hitting unrestricted free agency. This is NOT like London Fletcher's situation. This is NOT like the other vet free agent busts b/c he is NOT that old.

5. He would be a grown up in the secondary, which the Skins haven't had since Ryan Clark or Walt Harris. The guy knows how to make coverage adjustment calls in Haslett's defense.

6. He started out as a strong safety (which is how hitters start out).

7. He did not kill Nicole Brown-Simpson or plot to steal back any of his trophies. The Florida Citrus Growers Ass'n has a vested stake in his rise to fame for sponsorship purposes ("Atogwe, the other, less-felonious NFL star").

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

We should make a run at Bob Sanders. He can really help us out for 3 games.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 21, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Co-sign with sween.

Mistamoe: "The two in the bush are better than the free agent in our office."

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 11:07 AM | Report abuse

We really, really, need a stud nose tackle. Every fiber of my being screams "no" to Shaun Rogers b/c of who he is and how old he is, except one, which says that if he could be a strong NT for a couple of years, this would free us up to draft some additional needs and wait to draft a top-quality NT until next year or the year after. Atogwe would be good, but I be we can find a competant FS somewhere else who'll be cheaper. Maybe I'm nuts....

Posted by: skinsfan713 | February 21, 2011 11:02 AM

Yes, you are nuts. Shawn Rogers has been in the league for 10 plus years and his motor is a rotary engine serviced with olive oil. No comparison. The comparison at NT would be Haloti Ngata (now tagged in BAL) or Aubrayo Franklin (SF). [The more accurate comparison for Shawn Rogers would be to Albert Haynesworth ... and we know how his motor has been received by the Shanahan regime ....]. The consensus up (to which I subscribe) is to use the second draft pick for NT (after using the first for either on OLB or DE or OLB/DE).

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Looks like a Harrisburg party on RI today. I'm currently working in Harrisburg.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 10:54 AM

Nice...I would be so much more excited about this if, you know, I didn't actually live in Harrisburg...

Beep, you're harping on the veteran's minimum like that's what I said..."the right price" doesn't mean "free of charge" in my world...incentive laden deal with emphasis on salary and light on the guarantees. That's EXACTLY what he signed with the Rams, so I don't see why that's not a possibility here since A) he's already got a relationship with this coach and B) that's about the best he'll get on the open market. You're assuming there's another Redskin-esque team out there willing to overpay for guys not worth it...or that Atogwe is worthy of elite-level compensation. There's not and he's not. If all things are considered equal, I don't see why we can't get him AND stay within our salary structure.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse

We should make a run at Bob Sanders. He can really help us out for 3 games.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 21, 2011 11:03 AM

Member of the Shawn Springs All-Pro Bowl Sideline Team.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Here's the real deal and everyone should know this is how it goes. You have to gauge this man against other FA FS's available. Who else is out there? How much are they going to cost? And how sure are you that they will perform? Making a judgement on this guy without bringing other names into the discussion is foolish. Atogwe does not exist in a vacuum. If you don't want him then come up with another name that you think would be better...and vice versa. I've used Weddle as an example of someone that is obviously younger and has great upside but is somewhat unproven. Bob Sanders is an example of someone I would pick Atogwe over...dude just won't play. Obviously these are my OPINIONS. There is no way anyone here can accurately gauge these things without sitting in film rooms with coaches. Vinny proved this. He just grabbed players who's name he recognized without any real evaluation of the player. Plain and simple, if this man is the best player available at this position for the price then you grab him. IMO FS isn't a priority in the high rounds of the draft this year and a 5th rounder is never a sure thing.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Member of the Shawn Springs All-Pro Bowl Sideline Team.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:10 AM


Member? Try the president and CEO...it should be called the Bob Sanders All-Pro Sideline Team, Springs hasn't seen the sideline nearly as much as Sanders. Nine games in 3 years? Only played 6 games or more twice in his career? You can't make stuff like that up...not for a guy as good as Sanders...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 11:18 AM | Report abuse

2. No body up here has said a peep about a free safety in the draft. With two first day picks and then a nap on draft day two waiting for day three, the Skins still need free agency.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:03 AM

This is incorrect, I have repeatedly mentioned that the FS from Georgia Tech, Jerrard Tarrant, is worth the 5th round pick. If you pick him and someone like Atogwe up you have a guy being groomed by a decent player.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Amen, scamp. Right now the team appears to be doing their due diligence. That's about all we can ask for right now.

It just cracks me up that some folks feel like we can be competitive without using free agency AT ALL...like you can fill all the holes in the roster with only 5 or 6 picks...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Sounds good.

Does he take good angles? Can he run support?

If yes. Sign him and scratch one gaping hole in our D off the list and move on.

Posted by: lemming | February 21, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

The consensus up (to which I subscribe) is to use the second draft pick for NT (after using the first for either on OLB or DE or OLB/DE).

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse
____________

Shanny's going to pick a QB in the 1st round no matter what any of us think, in my opinion.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | February 21, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

"The bad thing? You get what you pay for. You get guys like Joey Galloway and you miss out on O. J. Atogwe."

So would it be fair to say that you also get what you don't pay for?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 21, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Add me to the list of people talking about ds in the draft. Right now culliver from south carolina is slated to go in the fifth round. He is another safety corner type that would be worth the pick if he falls that far.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | February 21, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

hello?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Wonder if BMW is coming back this year?

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | February 21, 2011 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Save draft picks to get quality starters or backups in depleted areas.

(INSERT Sarcasm)

Yeah, sure, no one in here ever suggests that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I know, scamp...looks like Atogwe broke the blog...LOL

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Wonder if BMW is coming back this year?


Posted by: monkeymayonaise | February 21, 2011 12:00 PM


If he's smart, he won't...he's no better than a marginal starter and it's not like the Skins have any real title hopes in 2011. Clots aren't something to play around with...if his life (or quality of life) are in any question, he shouldn't even roll that dice.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yes to OJ. He fills a desperate need without creating another (Barnes to FS) and is a playmaker.

You could always ask Portis his toughts on OJ. Rembember CP tried to turn himself into a goundhog in the open field because he thought OJ was within 5 yards.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Right now culliver from south carolina is slated to go in the fifth round.


Ahmad Black-UF is the FS you really want.

Folks hate on the Gators, but they've produced some very good NFL players recently.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse


It just cracks me up that some folks feel like we can be competitive without using free agency AT ALL...like you can fill all the holes in the roster with only 5 or 6 picks...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 11:22 AM |

-------------

brown

green bay just did it. aaron rodgers was drafted in 2005. they have 1 FA, woodson. not only do they have this years SB trophy, they have draft picks.

everyone preaches patience in rebuilding this team, then as soon as a FA hits the market everyone sees stars

no to oj atogwe, yes to changing our ways

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

no to oj atogwe, yes to changing our ways

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM

So like I said before, Otogwe doesn't exist in a vacuum, so who do you go with?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Atogwe would be better served signing with the Saints.

Posted by: coparker5 | February 21, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse


So like I said before, Otogwe doesn't exist in a vacuum, so who do you go with?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 12:22 PM |

----------------

scamp, remember that this is a rebuild. it takes time, and signing atogwe is a win now move. just sayin'

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:28 PM | Report abuse

hesoone

...green bay just did it...everyone preaches patience in rebuilding this team, then as soon as a FA hits the market everyone sees stars...

I say 'No' to you and your damn common sense!


(INSERT sarcasm)


Do you know how boring it must be to be a Packers' fan?

It's so tough, packers' fans show up to their games with cheese wedges on their heads.

Redskin fans, on the other hand, come adored like housewives with identity concealing pig snouts.

They want every one to know they love their team, while we don't want anyone to know who we are.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:28 PM | Report abuse

hess-

Maybe we can fill some of our needs with our abundance of picks. You know the additional 2nd, our 3rd and 4th.....

We don't have the picks. The Redskins will be very active in FA (as they should be). There won't be any Haynesworth type of signings but probably a lot of guys you aren't familiar with.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:32 PM | Report abuse

scamp, remember that this is a rebuild. it takes time, and signing atogwe is a win now move. just sayin'


Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:28 PM |

You're dodging the question.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 12:37 PM | Report abuse

scamp, remember that this is a rebuild. it takes time, and signing atogwe is a win now move. just sayin'


Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:28 PM |

I've already put my vote in for a younger guy sucj as Weddle but in the same breath I'm not anti Otogwe. I would be anti Otogwe if we were only allowed to purchase the services of a finite number of FA's. He's an upgrade to what we have. Rebuilding does not necessarily preclude winning now. I'd like to still win games while rebuilding. That doesn't mean that I would be okay with ONLY adding aging vets. I want young guys too (mostly.)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 12:41 PM | Report abuse

One of our most significant problems last year was the lack of a quality FS.

Moore got injured and didn't live up to the pre-season hype (those poor angles can't be blamed on his knee). Every other safety on the roster is either a natural strong safety, a converted corner or just a corner.

Atogwe is a solid FS. He would fill a big need, and being 29 doesn't qualify him for an imminent trip to the knackers yard. He should have enough in the tank to see out a 4-year contract. I really cannot see a downside to adding him to the team so long as we pay him the going rate for a good free safety.

As long as we don't give him a Dan Snyder special, and instead sign him to a contract that doesn't make 31 GMs laugh out loud we should be fine. Bruce Allen doesn't seem to feel any need to sign someone on the first day they set foot in the building, so it looks as though we might finally have a grown-up in charge.

Posted by: WeNeedLinemen | February 21, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

dizzle44

The Redskins will be very active in FA (as they should be).


The simgular reason we should be in the FA market this time aorund is that there are 400 players in it, and most are under 28-29.

They are guys at the end of their 1st NFL contract, not 30 year olds hoping for a final payday.

We should leave that market with a starting guard, center, inside linebacker, defensive tackle-end, wide receiver (2), and free safety.

Which is why the smart thing to do is sit out the FA visits by OJ, Plax, and SR and wait to see who's availiable later this Spring.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

moe

i'd like the redskins to win the SB next year as much as the next guy

i'd like the redskins to build from within and then hit FA's as the cherry on top. not a popular course to take here on RI. not only do we build a winner, but a team with stability and long term success.

FA's should be used to compliment your roster, not build it

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

green bay just did it. aaron rodgers was drafted in 2005. they have 1 FA, woodson. not only do they have this years SB trophy, they have draft picks.

Posted by: hesscerrato | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM

You know, you keep saying this and you are wrong every time you say it.

Last year in free agency, Green Bay signed seven guys from other teams. Here's a list:

Charlie Peprah, Falcons
Matt Wilhelm, 49ers
Howard Green, New York Jets
Evan Moore, Cleveland Browns
Diyral Briggs, Denver Broncos
Dimitri Nance, Atlanta Falcons
Spencer Havner, Detroit Lions

The year McCarthy took over the team he signed 11 free agents from other teams.

And here's a source:

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=Signed+by+Team&y=2010

Every team in the NFL signs free agents. And this year the Redskins will have to sign more free agents than a lot of other teams. Get over it.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

green bay just did it. aaron rodgers was drafted in 2005. they have 1 FA, woodson. not only do they have this years SB trophy, they have draft picks.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:16 PM


Yeah, and they didn't draft Ryan Grant...they traded for him.

Tramon Williams wasn't an original draft choice either.

Curious that you mentioned Woodson...who by the way, was considered more of a risk when the Packers got him out of Oakland than Atogwe would be for us right now.

Point is, you can't fill a roster with 100% of "your own". The Colts and Packers get as close as you can to that, but it's still not 100%.

And based on what you've seen of BA, do you think we can build a team like that? I don't.

I'd say our FO has the best shot at building this team the way the Ravens and Saints did leading up to their SB glory: a good mix of FA and the draft, and hope your "homegrown" guys become the star players you rely on.

If you wanna see it done like the Packers and Colts, I suggest you root for those teams. Not saying I don't like the way they do things because I actually LOVE the way they do business. Just sayin' that realistically, you're not gonna see that in D.C. while Snyder is here...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

With no end in sight to the drama, dysfunction, and losing don't the skins have to overpay to attract quality free agents? If you have options, why would you sign with Washington to finish last year after year?

Posted by: coparker5 | February 21, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

FA's should be used to compliment your roster, not build it

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 12:46 PM

"Compliment" your roster? You mean that O. J. Atogwe should come in and tell all the players how good they are? "Hey, I'm here to compliment you guys. You really are looking good. Except for you, Big Al."

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't see where building through the draft and signing a guy like Otogwe are completely incompatible. We have a bunch of 5th and 6th rounders this year to draft a good prospect at FS that could learn a lot under Otogwe for a couple of years and rock it out on ST's in the mean time. Otogwe could have 3 or 4 solid years left and we should be seriously in the hunt by then.

I like having a ball-hawking proven veteran as the last line of defense playing center field, myself.

Posted by: lemming | February 21, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Vikings to franchise Greenway. 10.2 mil....wow.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

beep-beep

Every team in the NFL signs free agents.


'Cuz you and this truth-telling you've decide to engage in.

Do us a favor and re-commit yourself to a diet of sarcasm and hyperbole, please.

We're growing fat from these facts you're posting.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Which means that Sidney Rice will be available....I say no.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Vikings to franchise Greenway. 10.2 mil....wow.

They tag C Greenway and not S Rice?

Wow: if Rice heads to D.C., he better leave with a contract.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Which means that Sidney Rice will be available....I say no.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:53 PM

I think they are to use the transition tag on Rice...whatever that is.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"Compliment" your roster? You mean that O. J. Atogwe should come in and tell all the players how good they are? "Hey, I'm here to compliment you guys. You really are looking good. Except for you, Big Al."

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 12:52 PM

Don't underestimate the power of a compliment...Like this: You're no where near the biggest prick on the blog.

So who did you root for last night? Duke or GT?

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I took a huge dump in harrisburg once . . . oh wait, harrisburg is a huge dump. my mistake.

Posted by: SJK_This_Blog | February 21, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Which means that Sidney Rice will be available....I say no.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:53 PM

I think they are to use the transition tag on Rice...whatever that is.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 12:56 PM

Transition tag is average of top 10 salaries at the position. If another team offers the player a contract then the original team (MINN) has seven days to match. No compensation to MINN if they refuse to match.

Pretty good way for MINN to retain his rights and then decide if they'd like to match any offers.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

SJK_This_Blog


I love the screen name.

Let me guess, you're Jason Reid, right?

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Duke or GT?

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:57 PM

GT in football. Duke in roundball. Which is the way it always comes out.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

http://www.packers.com/team/howbuilt.html Clearly the packers use FA too

Posted by: hcic55 | February 21, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:57 PM

GT in football. Duke in roundball. Which is the way it always comes out.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 1:03 PM

For me it's MD in football, BBall, Baseball, lacrosse, women's lacrosse & swimming (they were always very supportive of me)..

Mount Saint Mary's in theological jeopardy.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abuse

SJK_This_Blog

I think it's P_F/N_P_I

It was just a matter of time until his little game got noticed by the blog...IE suspended.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

hess's posts regarding free agency = power rankings....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

hess-

Maybe we can fill some of our needs with our abundance of picks. You know the additional 2nd, our 3rd and 4th.....

We don't have the picks. The Redskins will be very active in FA (as they should be). There won't be any Haynesworth type of signings but probably a lot of guys you aren't familiar with.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 12:32 PM |

-------------

i understand this approach 44.

i understand we don't have all our picks.

i understand that we have a new coach, FO, the works.

i understand there's 400 FA's on the market.

but, i understand that it takes time to build from within

there's something to say about a draft pick that works out. he plays for the one and only team he's been a part of, and it's in his blood, heart, and soul. just the other day when bsanders was released, he thanked the colt's fans and said he'd always be a colt.

there's something to be said about a FA. he plays for money.


Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

hess's posts regarding free agency = power rankings....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 1:23 PM |

...unlike his posts about the draft which are superficial nonsense or his posts about $nyder which are tedious twaddle. So, at least he's versatile.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Lavar advocating we trade #10 pick and try to parlay it into landing these 3:

Taylor DT Baylor
Williams RB VaTech
Hankerson WR Miami

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

hess's posts regarding free agency = power rankings....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Greg's post about hess's post= power rankings

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Sign the man, Shirley. I mean Bruce.

Posted by: jgarrisn | February 21, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

there's something to be said about a FA. he plays for money.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 1:30 PM

I guess the LFB and DHall signings were a complete failure. It's about signing the RIGHT guys, now that we have the RIGHT guys in the FO, you'll see more of the RIGHT guys in FA.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

New RI Question:

How long do you think Atogwe will continue to be at the top of his game?

A) 1-2 more years
B) 2-3 more years
C) 3+ years


And here's a second and important related question:

How long until the Redskins are making a legit playoff run?

A)1-2 years
B)2-3 years
C)3+ years


And then you do your math and calculate how many top Atogwe years we are going to get that overlap with the Redskins making a legit playoff run.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Rebuilding does not necessarily preclude winning now. I'd like to still win games while rebuilding. That doesn't mean that I would be okay with ONLY adding aging vets. I want young guys too (mostly.)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 12:41 PM

THIS is the recipe. See Tampa Bay this season (curiously, a season without Bruce Allen).

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 1:43 PM

C and B

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Tho I foresee at least one illegitimate playoff run before then.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Re: Problems at Free Safety

THe "problems" that we saw at free safety last year were amplified by 2 things:

1) The loss of LL30 - With LL30 gone, an inordinate amount of responsibility fell to the FS to tackle the ball carrier. When LL30 is in the game he is going to get around the ball-carrier most of the time. We don't need a lumber-carrier at FS. Just someone who knows some basic tackling and won't Ole the ball carrier.

2) No pass rush - Many of our secondary concerns have to do with our incredibly crappy and talent-free front 7. We don't need a ProBowl playmaker at FS. Once we can address the pass-rush upfront, that will take pressure off of the safety positions in coverage.

What does this all add up to?

It all adds up to NOT NEEDING TO SPEND $$ IN FA ON A 30-YEAR OLD FREE SAFETY EVEN IF HE IS A "PLAYMAKER".

Let's save the cash for something we really really need - like a starting cornerback, or more starting-caliber Olinemen, or a pass-rusher, or re-upping with LL30.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

And then you do your math and calculate how many top Atogwe years we are going to get that overlap with the Redskins making a legit playoff run.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 1:43 PM


Can't agree with that line of thinking...you don't pass on a chance to upgrade your roster simply because you don't think you'll be a title contender in 2-3 years. That's the way perennial dogs like the Cards and Bengals think, not us.

It's one thing if we kick his tires and it's deemed he's not a good fit. But to pass on him because of his birth certificate would be lame if he's still got enough gas in the tank to help us for the next 3 years or so.

I mean, what if the Saints said that same thing about Drew Brees and/or Darren Sharper? If BA and MS think that Atogwe helps their defense, they'd be stupid to pass on him just because there's a chance we won't be good before he breaks down.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

THIS is the recipe. See Tampa Bay this season (curiously, a season without Bruce Allen).

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse
The bucs signed sean jones, a 28 year old safety this past season

Posted by: hcic55 | February 21, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

If we signed Atogwe today to the contract that the Rams reneged on, we'd have to pay him an $8 million roster bonus. That would be paying him this year. My question is whether the roster bonus (as opposed to a signing bonus) would count against this (uncapped year) or whether it would be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Best of luck, Doug:

Doug Williams leaves UFL to return to Grambling
Posted by Mike Florio on February 21, 2011, 1:39 PM EST

When word emerged that Virginia Destroyers coach Jay Gruden was on the Panthers’ radar as a candidate for quarterbacks coach, Destroyers G.M. Doug Williams mused that, if Gruden leaves, Williams may replace him.

“If he gets it, maybe I’ll have to come down and get back to coaching,” Williams said in January.

Gruden has since left for the Bengals, and Williams will now indeed get back into coaching. But not with the Destroyers or any other UFL team. Williams will return to Grambling as head coach, where his son plays football.

Williams joined the Destroyers last June. Originally slated to be an expansion team in 2011, the league moved the Florida Tuskers to Virginia after the 2010 season and ultimately tabled expansion plans.

“I was looking forward to working with the Destroyers, but this is a great opportunity for me and it is very rare that a father gets to coach his son at the college football level,” Williams said. “ I went to school there, I coached there, and now I have a great opportunity to coach there again.

“I will keep tabs on the Destroyers and know they are going to do well. They have a great fan base in an area that is a football hotbed and the UFL will succeed there.”

Williams was a standout quarterback for the Buccaneers, leading them to the brink of the Super Bowl in only their fourth season. Eight years later, Williams led the Redskins to an unexpected Super Bowl win to cap the 1987 strike season, which was shortened to 15 games and included three played with replacements.

He first became coach at Grambling in 1997, succeeding the legendary Eddie Robinson. Williams later left the Tigers to join the front office of the Buccaneers.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 1:58 PM | Report abuse


If you wanna see it done like the Packers and Colts, I suggest you root for those teams. Not saying I don't like the way they do things because I actually LOVE the way they do business. Just sayin' that realistically, you're not gonna see that in D.C. while Snyder is here...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 12:48 PM |

--------------

i know this all too well

hey, a guy can fantasize

-------------

by: joshua huffman, yahoo contributor

Ted Thompson has had critics and doubters. Count me as one who doubted his ability to create a Super Bowl team. While I'm not a fan of Daniel Snyder's overly aggressive style of developing a football team, I believed that Thompson was too conservative with roster management, neglecting to use free agency as a means to improve the roster for the past few seasons. With Thompson, I felt like many Philadelphia Eagles fans feel with Andy Reid: not doomed for mediocrity, but doomed from jumping over those final hurdles to be a true Super Bowl contender as we'd never add those final veteran pieces that Ron Wolf did in the 1990s.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Lavar advocating we trade #10 pick and try to parlay it into landing these 3:

Taylor DT Baylor
Williams RB VaTech
Hankerson WR Miami

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't agreeing with Ryan Williams until I read Lavar's article. Now, I think it's a decent plan. It does hinge on us being able to trade down though and that may not happen. I would probably go for one of the defensive ends or outside linebackers in the second round. I figure one of them will probably fall. Phil Taylor brings up a good question.

Is #10 too high to take Phil Taylor? B. J. Raji went at #9 and Phil is supposed to be a bigger stronger version of him.

Thoughts?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Thoughts?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

The more I learn about Taylor the more I do believe he will rise on draft day. If he's our guy we may have to use the #10 on him.

I just do not feel like we are in a position to draft WR/RB at the top of this draft. It is critical that we add Dline, Oline and LB help early and often on draft day.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse


I just do not feel like we are in a position to draft WR/RB at the top of this draft. It is critical that we add Dline, Oline and LB help early and often on draft day.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 2:06 PM |

------------

couldn't agree more

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

#10 is too high for a 2 down lineman. If we were to trade back into the mid 20's then Yes. You don't take a player that is ranked in the mid 20's to 30's at #10 overall.

He's no BJ Raji and at 10 Taylor would be a reach.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Can't agree with that line of thinking...you don't pass on a chance to upgrade your roster simply because you don't think you'll be a title contender in 2-3 years. That's the way perennial dogs like the Cards and Bengals think, not us.

It's one thing if we kick his tires and it's deemed he's not a good fit. But to pass on him because of his birth certificate would be lame if he's still got enough gas in the tank to help us for the next 3 years or so.

I mean, what if the Saints said that same thing about Drew Brees and/or Darren Sharper? If BA and MS think that Atogwe helps their defense, they'd be stupid to pass on him just because there's a chance we won't be good before he breaks down.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse


My line of thinking is soundly in the camp of "rebuild the right way". Save your resources for guys who will be with the team for the long haul.

For instance, we have to re-up with Laron Landry next year...how much $$ do we want to tie up on the safety positions and one of them is on the wrong side of 30? At some point soon we'll have to re-up with Adam Carriker. We still need to find guys who will play on the right side of our Oline into the future...unless you want to go with Artis Hicks and Stephon Heyer? Didn't think so. Jamaal Brown and Ryan Harris are going to cost us some money.


Shaun Rogers would "upgrade" our roster...but for how long?
Plaxico Burress would "upgrade" our roster...but for how long?

No. My line of thinking is precisely what teams that build the right way do.

It's the Redskins from 2000-2010 who go out and pay a guy who will immediately "upgrade" the roster without thinking about how they fit into the larger team-building philosophy.

And your Darren Sharper example makes my point precisely - Darren Sharper helped a team on the cusp win a SB one season...how did he fare the year after that?

We are not a team on the cusp. Let's stop acting like it.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I just do not feel like we are in a position to draft WR/RB at the top of this draft. It is critical that we add Dline, Oline and LB help early and often on draft day.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 2:06 PM |

------------

couldn't agree more

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

SAVE THE HIPPOS!!!!

We want fatboys!

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 2:29 PM | Report abuse

p1funk- Jamaal Brown and Ryan Harris are money well spent.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

But Diesel...

Who exactly dictates where Taylor is ranked as of now?

Sorry my man, but I'm not going to let Todd McShay and Mel Kiper decide where he deserves to be drafted.

2 down player or not, if he is a legit 3-4 NT with a work ethic and upside then history says he may well go top 10.


Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I think the Skins are the sort of team that presents challenges to the draft process. Washington finished 6-10 but could have finished with anywhere from 3 to 9 victories if they'd gone unusually cold or hot at some point (which they never did). So yeah, you could argue that we're a few players away, and a good draft and FA class could make a world of difference; and yet you could also argue with equal conviction that we're 2-3 years from contending.

Just looking at Shanahan in Denver ('95-'08), he used his first four picks as follows (highly unofficial count):
OT: 4
WR: 6
QB: 3
C: 2
CB: 7
Other DB (includes combo types): 4
DE: 4
DT: 5
LB: 6
G: 1
TE: 1
RB: 4

Maybe that suggests something about his priorities...

Posted by: Samson151 | February 21, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm just getting caught up on today's post and realized that the conversations were interesting--not too much stupidity at all.

Then I realized something else…today is a Federal Holliday. I’ve come to the conclusion that those who have the least amount to contribute to this blog--in the way of thought-out or interesting ideas, are more than likely gov ment employees.

Posted by: smokeybear2 | February 21, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't even read McShay or Kiper. Taylor will be taken in the late 1st, where he is a value. No way he goes anywhere near 10.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

My line of thinking is soundly in the camp of "rebuild the right way". Save your resources for guys who will be with the team for the long haul.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM

So I put the same question to you that hess continues to dodge, who then?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 2:51 PM | Report abuse

He's no BJ Raji and at 10 Taylor would be a reach.

If not Taylor, I want the best rated interior defensive lineman @ 10.

BJ Raji was considered a risk player '09, so maybe the thing to do is trust what you see at pro day workouts, tape, and combine workouts before deciding on any player.

Our defense need some stud in the middle on the line to make it work, plain and simple.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins freakin' suck.

Posted by: NyallsStJohnSmytheIV | February 21, 2011 3:01 PM | Report abuse

My Mom freakin' sucks shaven donkey scrote.

Posted by: NyallsStJohnSmytheIV | February 21, 2011 3:01 PM |

There, fixed it for you.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Taylor will be taken in the late 1st, where he is a value. No way he goes anywhere near 10.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Like Bob Marley said...Only time will tell.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Did someone say OJ Attogwe born June 1981 is old? Check this out:
Ryan Clark is 31
Troy Polamalu April 1981 same age
Brian Dawkins Oct 1973 grandpa
Quintin Mikell Sept 1980 younger
Darren Sharper Nov 1975 old?
Ed Reed sept 1978 old?

Of all these notable safeties, only Quintin Mikel is younger than OJA

Posted by: abxinc | February 21, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

He is 29 and by time we are in position for true contention, he is probably 32 or more and sitting on IR.

Posted by: TwoCents5 | February 21, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Thank you.

This is central to the overall point. I'm sure Atogwe will perform admirably over the next couple of years.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011

Atogwe is probably a nice fit for us, it'd take a weakness and make it a strength -- which is what you want to do with FA. But I mentioned it the other day, decisions made this offseason should start with the question -- how does this help me win in 2013-2015? Because it will take a year or two to become competitive. OJ will be 30 in June -- 32 before the 2013 season. FS tend to have a longer career than a CB, so 32 isn't the end of line, but it seems a bit dicey to me.

Our focus needs to be on guys who help us in 2-3 years, not in 2011.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Taylor will be taken in the late 1st, where he is a value. No way he goes anywhere near 10.

Again, this is draftnik logic.

If you have a porous defense, does draftnik logic work to stop the run, say, in mid October on a Sunday afternoon?

Does draftnik logic collapse the pocket?

Having the players who meet the needs of your scheme is what wins during the season, as draftnik logic works out only on paper.

Draftnik logic could say the skins should draft a quarterback and complimentary receiver.

Common damn sense say 'yes' on the quarterback and 'no' on the receiver.

We need some beef-eaters on defense in a draft awash with them.

So I'm advocating taking whomever is the best rated defensive lineman @ 10, and saying F the draftnik logic.

And for the 4th rounder, if he's a front-7 defender, draft'em!

I want to win on Sundays, not Draft Days.


Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Draftnik logic also doesn't understand the market for these players. Houston is sitting at #11 and they just switched to a 3-4. They do not have a NT. There are several things going in Phil's favor.

#1 He's rare. There's maybe 2 NTs in this draft that could be considered starting material. That's great news considering there are at least 4 teams looking for a starting NT.

#2 His off the field issues seem to be gone.

#3 He absolutely tore up the senior bowl and still has the combine and a few workouts left. If he tears it up at those he will shoot up the draft board.

#4 His weight has been kept in check. That was a concern about him but he has done a great job getting into the proper playing weight. This sends a message that he has a strong work ethic.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | February 21, 2011 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Draftnik logic also doesn't understand the market for these players.

Amen, brother.

If anything, Raji-Suh may change the market for interior defensive lineman.

And draftnik logic doesn't get that yet.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | February 21, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

So I'm advocating taking whomever is the best rated defensive lineman @ 10, and saying F the draftnik logic.

And for the 4th rounder, if he's a front-7 defender, draft'em!

I want to win on Sundays, not Draft Days.


Posted by: MistaMoe | February 21, 2011 3:12 PM |

I think that can of thinking is what got Josh McDaniels fired. He selected players who he thought we right for his system at points in the draft where these players weren't a value. just because we need a NT, doesn't mean we take one at #10 when we could that same player at #20, or a similarly talented player in second round.

Taylor is a fine player that's not to be debated. However, there have been a bunch of people who have evaluated his tape and Taylor is consistently a later first early second talent in this draft.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse


My line of thinking is soundly in the camp of "rebuild the right way". Save your resources for guys who will be with the team for the long haul.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM

So I put the same question to you that hess continues to dodge, who then?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 2:51 PM |

----------

who will that be ?

draft picks of course, then FA's is my answer

more than likely, it will be a combo of both together at the same time

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Yes. Yes. Yes. No picks involved.

This would temporarily neutralize the McNabb for Nate Allen fiasco.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | February 21, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

If he's still there, Cam Newton will be a Redskin.

I would like another offensive lineman, but this is what I think will happen.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 3:50 PM | Report abuse

who will that be ?

draft picks of course, then FA's is my answer

more than likely, it will be a combo of both together at the same time

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 3:37 PM

And yet another dodge. I asked you a simple question that you can't seem to answer: If not Atogwe then who? A name or names...it's that simple.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

scamp, you'd have better luck asking these questions to a cat, or perhaps to a boat anchor...than to hess...he wont answer you, because he has no answer....

hess wants the team to draft guys, then AFTER the draft, sign free agents, when the rest of the league has already gone through and signed every FA worth their salt, and you're left looking at guys not worth signing....

seems like an iron clad plan....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 4:28 PM | Report abuse

then AFTER the draft, sign free agents, when the rest of the league has already gone through and signed every FA worth their salt, and you're left looking at guys not worth signing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | February 21, 2011 4:28 PM

This is an improvement on his previous plan: draft only D-Linemen in the first and second rounds, O-linemen in the later rounds, and don't sign any free agents because Green Bay has only one free agent on their roster.

What I liked about that plan was that you don't have to do much scouting. No QB's, no WR's, no DB's, and none of the 400 free agents in the league. This is the way he rebuilds a team, SLOWWWWWWWWWLY.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse


And yet another dodge. I asked you a simple question that you can't seem to answer: If not Atogwe then who? A name or names...it's that simple.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:08 PM |

-----

Marcus Gilchrist, Clemson

Deunta Williams, North Carolina

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I see that Bean. It seems like he just has a sandy vag about Atogwe. He has no real vision. He's one of those idealists that says "Hey, we need to get younger," and anything that doesn't 100% adhere to a theory that is great but in practice is comprehensively impossible to do and still win a few games here and there just makes them want to cry. Some people just don't understand that you just can't slap together a bunch of 24 year old's and magically field a good team. I'm for improving this team. I would like to add good, young guys at every position but I would also like to improve the product on the field now while finding and bringing up those same young guys. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Having said that I'm not sold on Atogwe over a guy like Eric Weddle but I would take him over Bob "The Human Injury" Sanders anyday. Then draft a young FS late and hope he can learn his way into a starting job. I'm NOT for drafting one high.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Marcus Gilchrist, Clemson

Deunta Williams, North Carolina

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 4:37 PM |

Okay, good. Now, in what round?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Follow me hess. I'm going to attempt to explain my point using your choices and see if it makes sense to either of us.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:41 PM | Report abuse


Follow me hess. I'm going to attempt to explain my point using your choices and see if it makes sense to either of us.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:41 PM |

--------

follow me scamp, kiss my ass

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 4:47 PM | Report abuse

draft d-line with our 1st round and 2nd round picks, then pay attention to the o-line in the lower rounds, and for beep's sake,

SAVE THE WHALES !

Posted by: hessone | February 20, 2011 9:22 AM


Scamp -- Not in any round. We're getting the safety next year. This his hesscerrato's strategy he posted yesterday. He's following his role model, Vinnie, who said "Okay, we need receivers. I'm taking only receivers with my high pick." hessone = cerrato lite.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 4:48 PM | Report abuse

follow me scamp, kiss my ass

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 4:47 PM

I'm not trying to put you down dude, I'm attempting to have an actual debate with you and get you to see my point of view. If you wanna go on the attack go after the other guys jumping your sh!t.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

follow me scamp, kiss my ass

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 4:47 PM

Ooooh, internet tough guy! Hey, hesscerrato, you need to take your head out of it before asking someone to kiss it.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Well, I see were not going to have an adult discussion about this so forget it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Scamp and Hess- Hopefully we sign Atogwe. The guy is good, at least much better than any FS that is currently on the roster.

He will not get 8million per year, but at a reasonable price...yes.

Too many holes on the team makes it impossible not to dip into FA.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Good ove if they can get him. He will make bigger impact in secondary than Carlos Rogers. We can move Barnes to CB. Signing a 30-yr old FS to a moderate contract is better than signing a 30-yr old CB who has an inflated opinion of himself to an even larger contract. Good business.

Posted by: skinsdiehard | February 21, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Scamp and Hess- Hopefully we sign Atogwe. The guy is good, at least much better than any FS that is currently on the roster.

He will not get 8million per year, but at a reasonable price...yes.

Too many holes on the team makes it impossible not to dip into FA.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 4:55 PM |

This was basically the point I was attempting to make. It goes like this: Is our FS position a major need? If the answer is yes then the next part is do we believe that Atogwe is better than Moore, Doughty, or Horton at the FS position? If the answer is yes then here's the next part, do we need to get younger, if the answer is yes then the next part is where do we get this young FS? Two possible solutions, FA this year or next or draft this year or next? Then, if the draft, this year or next which rounds? If it's this year it has to be later (IMO) because we have needs above FS. If we solve some of the more urgent needs this year then it can be a higher pick next year. If it's this year will a late round draft pick be able to start right away? Safe money says no so, now what? Why not can 2 current FS's instead of just one, draft a guy AND pick up Atogwe for a responsible price, start Atogwe this year and maybe next. Let the young guy learn a little from the coaches and the starter thus having a better player now and a better younger one later

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Scamp- I'm in the draft a FS next year or the year after.

I don't see an Eric Berry or Earl Thomas this year, and FS is one of those positions where it's nice to have a superstar. As Redskins fans we know this more than anyone. RIP ST.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse


Scamp and Hess- Hopefully we sign Atogwe. The guy is good, at least much better than any FS that is currently on the roster.

He will not get 8million per year, but at a reasonable price...yes.

Too many holes on the team makes it impossible not to dip into FA.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 4:55 PM |

---------------

thanks hess.

my point in not signing atogwe is the high price he'll command and he's not a player we'll need immediately if we are truely rebuilding. the two FS's i mentioned should go later rounds, 3rd round at best for Deunta Williams.


Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 5:33 PM | Report abuse

thanks hess.

my point in not signing atogwe is the high price he'll command and he's not a player we'll need immediately if we are truely rebuilding. the two FS's i mentioned should go later rounds, 3rd round at best for Deunta Williams.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 5:33 PM |

I thought you said no on Atogwe, so why are you thanking him? Since when did we have a third? I'm beginning to see why beep and Bean are giving you sh!t.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:40 PM | Report abuse

With a decent FS back there Laron can beast out.

He is the superstar of this defense now. Let him play close to the line and he's the best SS in football.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse


Free Agency Moves/Trades - Green Bay Packers, Ted Thompson

Successes: Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, Ryan Grant

Role Players: Brandon Chillar

Busts: Ben Taylor, Marquand Manuel

my apologies for stating that the packers had only one FA.


Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Willis McGahee going to be cut..

Recation..

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Outstanding argument for signing Atogwe, compliments of Matt Bowen...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/02/bowen-atogwe-good-fit

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm really hoping we can get ryan Harris.

Build this offensive line and the rest of the team will fall into place.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Per an NFL Source, the Redskins reported meeting with Free-Agent FS Safety OJ Atogwe was NOT attended by current Defensive Coordinator Jim Haslett, who coached Atogwe as DC/Head Coach in STL. A NFL source very familiar with Atogwe said "He's a good kid & player. He is a playmaker at the free-safety spot."

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Willis McGahee going to be cut..

Recation..

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Not shocked. I don't want him.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:46 PM | Report abuse


I thought you said no on Atogwe, so why are you thanking him? Since when did we have a third? I'm beginning to see why beep and Bean are giving you sh!t.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:40 PM |

---------

actually, i was thanking him for not jumping my ass

and i still say no to atogwe

i see you joined beep and bean in bashing me, well have at it, i'm thru with that stuff.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse


I'm really hoping we can get ryan Harris.

Build this offensive line and the rest of the team will fall into place.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Sign me up...I want Harris too. BTW...I live in Colorado so I've followed Harris in the NFL. He had a down year and some injuries, but at one time he was looked at as a very good RT to bookend w/Clady.

I've heard some people on the blog talk about him playing G. Where is this coming from? I have never heard anything but that he's a T.

If he would play G and we sign Brown, we're a 2nd rd pick away from a solid, releatively young Oline.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Football outsiders looks back at the fans' preseason predictions for McNabb and how he actually performed:

"Donovan McNabb
Projected: 3406 passing yards, 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions
Actual: 3377 passing yards, 14 touchdowns, 15 interceptions
Pro-rated: 4156 passing yards, 17 touchdowns, 18 interceptions

McNabb ended up nearly hitting his yardage total and actually exceeded his interception total despite only playing in 13 games. He would have been well over the yardage total if it wasn't for some spectacularly poor drops; while every other quarterback has passes dropped, not every quarterback has a number of passes dropped 40 yards downfield. The yardage bump came thanks to an unexpectedly high number of attempts, as McNabb threw 472 passes; in 2003, he only threw 478 in a full 16-game season. His interception rate spiked, with the highest figure since his 216-attempt rookie season. It seems awful unlikely that he'll throw an interception on more than three percent of his passes again, which could make him an undervalued asset heading into free agency."

Posted by: Samson151 | February 21, 2011 5:54 PM | Report abuse

"I’ve come to the conclusion that those who have the least amount to contribute to this blog--in the way of thought-out or interesting ideas, are more than likely gov ment employees.Posted by: smokeybear2"

You mean government employees like Smokey the Bear?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 21, 2011 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Sampson151- any stat showcasing his ineptness in the redzone. He was OK between the 20's but SUCKED in the redzone.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

actually, i was thanking him for not jumping my ass

and i still say no to atogwe

i see you joined beep and bean in bashing me, well have at it, i'm thru with that stuff.

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 5:49 PM

I wasn't jumping your ass either until you turned dick and told me to kiss your ass. Now you can suck my dick phukboy. Put the lotion in the basket little girl.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm really hoping we can get ryan Harris.

Build this offensive line and the rest of the team will fall into place.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Sign me up...I want Harris too. BTW...I live in Colorado so I've followed Harris in the NFL. He had a down year and some injuries, but at one time he was looked at as a very good RT to bookend w/Clady.

I've heard some people on the blog talk about him playing G. Where is this coming from? I have never heard anything but that he's a T.

If he would play G and we sign Brown, we're a 2nd rd pick away from a solid, releatively young Oline.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I think there is a guard from Atlanta (the name is losing me) that is a free agent. I think he would be a good pick up as well.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

It puts the lotion in the basket!

I SAID IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!

Buffalo Bill makes a blog appearance!!

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

It puts the lotion in the basket!

I SAID IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!

Buffalo Bill makes a blog appearance!!


Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I was really hoping for the tooth fairy.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 6:05 PM | Report abuse

We are not a team on the cusp. Let's stop acting like it.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM |

---------

good read on ted thompson. i like his style, but even ted has made bad decisions.

i'm patient enough for the FO to get this thing right for a change, so hold off on the BIG MONEY FA's.

http://nflsoup.com/?p=1539

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Why do you keep saying big money FA like it's a given. I don't read one person on here saying pay anything for him. everyone has said reasonable or responsible. Did we overpay for him last year? No? Why would we this year? He just got cut after signing a pretty big contract one year prior. Why do you automatically assume that he will get offered another one being one year older after getting cut? You're just not very bright.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse


I wasn't jumping your ass either until you turned dick and told me to kiss your ass. Now you can suck my dick phukboy. Put the lotion in the basket little girl.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:59 PM |

-------------

scamp

i liked you better when you drank

listen scamp, when you started with the follow me crap, that's when i told you to kiss my ass. i'll take the high road with you and your pals and leave it at that

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 6:22 PM | Report abuse

I was really hoping for the tooth fairy.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 6:05 PM

The Rock version?

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

scamp

i liked you better when you drank

listen scamp, when you started with the follow me crap, that's when i told you to kiss my ass. i'll take the high road with you and your pals and leave it at that

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 6:22 PM

Yea, God forbid I attempt to reason with you and ask you to follow my logic. That's just stupid. Phuk you and your bull sh!t high road. You can't start dishing sh!t and think all of the sudden you're on the high road.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you never knew me when I drank phuko.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

And your Darren Sharper example makes my point precisely - Darren Sharper helped a team on the cusp win a SB one season...how did he fare the year after that?

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM


Team on the cusp? That's kind of revisionist history, dude...the two seasons before their SB run the Saints finished 7-9 and 8-8. In case you forgot, before they got Brees, they were a putrid franchise made worse by Hurricane Katrina. It's not like this was a perennial playoff team like the Colts or the Chargers and Brees and/or Sharper was the missing piece. The Saints plodded along, collected the best players they could get at positions of need, and were Bowl-bound in Year 4 of the Payton Era.

I'm not saying the Skins will replicate that, but that is probably the closest example of what they're going to do to rebuild. Ignoring quality veteran help in the name of letting rookies cut their teeth isn't necessarily the best course of action...at least not at EVERY position on the field.

I get what you're saying, and believe it or not, I do agree on a certain level...but to say that Atogwe wouldn't be a contributor beyond 3 years from now or that the Skins won't be a title contender before then is presumptuous. Crazier things have happened in this league, and if you get as many good players as you can without blowing out the salary structure, you give yourself a better chance to succeed in the short term AND the long term. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

good read on ted thompson. i like his style, but even ted has made bad decisions.

i'm patient enough for the FO to get this thing right for a change, so hold off on the BIG MONEY FA's.

http://nflsoup.com/?p=1539

Posted by: hessone | February 21, 2011 6:17 PM

I noticed no real success and only average at best success from his draft pick a long the Dline and Oline. I also noticed him drafting a franchise qb even though there was no clear need for one, while the team had needs on both Dline and Oline at that time. Just sayin....

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Outstanding argument for signing Atogwe, compliments of Matt Bowen...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/02/bowen-atogwe-good-fit

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM

Thanks for that link. I'm hoping Mike Jones starts giving us analysis like Keim comes up with.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse

p1funk-

Sharper was 34 and OJ is 30. Terrible analogy all around.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse

scamp, you'd have a better and more productive conversation with your own taint than Hess...dude is punch drunk from FA to the point where he thinks we can't EVER sign another FA or we're doomed to lower deck of hell. You'd be better off trying to get an abuse victim to take up boxing than to get Hess to wrap his head around the virtues of RESPONSIBLE use of FA...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

scamp, you'd have a better and more productive conversation with your own taint than Hess...dude is punch drunk from FA to the point where he thinks we can't EVER sign another FA or we're doomed to lower deck of hell. You'd be better off trying to get an abuse victim to take up boxing than to get Hess to wrap his head around the virtues of RESPONSIBLE use of FA...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 6:42 PM | Report

I laughed at that one. Not really interested in talking to my taint for very long but I do think it would be more productive...might look kinda funny though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:45 PM | Report abuse

I noticed no real success and only average at best success from his draft pick a long the Dline and Oline. I also noticed him drafting a franchise qb even though there was no clear need for one, while the team had needs on both Dline and Oline at that time. Just sayin....


Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 6:36 PM


Right...just furthers the notion that you get the best players you can get your hands on (relative to your system and salary structure, of course) and don't worry about all these predetermined labels for how you should/shouldn't build a team. The only effective rebuild is the one that works...at the end of the day, nobody gives a rat's ass if you did it with 100% homegrown talent or with guys that lifted the jerseys of different teams on draft day. As I said earlier...how much do you think the Saints or their fans care that Brees, Sharper, and Vilma weren't drafted by New Orleans? The rings are just as shiny, I promise...

Obviously, you should do the primary building thru the draft...but anyone who thinks you're gonna field a champion without touching FA isn't just batsh*t crazy, they're just flat wrong...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Good Robert Henson interview...for a change of pace:

http://broodingburgundy.com/post/3424641308/henson-area-51

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the Atogwe meeting is tomorrow

Rich_Campbell He's arriving in town this evening and meeting tomorrow. RT @DaRealRoot: @Rich_Campbell how did the ATOGWE visit go? 35 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Rich_Campbell I'm told he's arriving this evening and the meeting is tomorrow. All coaches had the day off today b/c combine is this weekend.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to see Henson come back and look like he did in that one pre-season game...

He looked like Jefferson in Fast Times after Spicoli wrecked his Camaro....granted it was pre-season, but the guy was a beast!

Oh...and "My old man has an ultimate set of tools...I can fix it..."

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/02/bowen-atogwe-good-fit

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM

Great post...good to see a guy who not only played the game, but played the safety position break it down like that. I'll go with his reasoning instead of the inane ramblings of a guy that wakes up with cold sweats at the mere mention of free agency...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Outstanding argument for signing Atogwe, compliments of Matt Bowen...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/02/bowen-atogwe-good-fit

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 5:43 PM

Thanks for that link. I'm hoping Mike Jones starts giving us analysis like Keim comes up with.

Posted by: beep-beep

The article is a good one, but it makes the mistake that many people will make. Otogwe is a good player who does some good things. Yes, he'd make us better in 2011. But our issue isn't about making this team better for 2011 or 2012 -- its got to be about a 3 year plan. A 30 year old FS is a good fit for some teams, not so much for us.

Same argument with Nnamdi btw. Great player, love to have him on my team, but we need to rebuild with youth. Wish we were in a position to make a bidding war for him worthwhile, but we're not. fwiw, I think philly should/will break the bank for him.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

z's, read this and see if this makes sense to you.

*******************************************

Is our FS position a major need? If the answer is yes then the next part is do we believe that Atogwe is better than Moore, Doughty, or Horton at the FS position? If the answer is yes then here's the next part, do we need to get younger, if the answer is yes then the next part is where do we get this young FS? Two possible solutions, FA this year or next or draft this year or next? Then, if the draft, this year or next which rounds? If it's this year it has to be later (IMO) because we have needs above FS. If we solve some of the more urgent needs this year then it can be a higher pick next year. If it's this year will a late round draft pick be able to start right away? Safe money says no so, now what? Why not can 2 current FS's instead of just one, draft a guy AND pick up Atogwe for a responsible price, start Atogwe this year and maybe next. Let the young guy learn a little from the coaches and the starter thus having a better player now and a better younger one later.

It's not like we need to keep Moore, Doughty, and Horton. 2 of those 3 can go.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 5:03 PM |

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 7:17 PM | Report abuse

zeke- How is a 30 YR old safety only a 1 YR fit? He is not only a quality player but a quality person. Our roster lacks on both accounts.

They should make an offer in the 3-4 YR range worth about in the 12-16 mil range.

There is no quality FS on our roster and we don't have the picks to draft one.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about any of that. It seems like Otogwe has a minimum 3 years in the tank at his current skill level. That's a lifetime in this league.

And Re: Eagles breaking the bank, seriously doubt that. I've heard rumblings they go after Asomugha. Plus they have Allen and could resign Mikell who I believe has made the last 2 pro bowls.

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 7:20 PM | Report abuse

How is a 30 YR old safety only a 1 YR fit?

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 7:17 PM


Apparently, we've overlooked the "fact" that players immediately suck at 30. That's why Ray Lewis blows and London Fletcher is wasting space. Oh, and that Brady guy in New England is a total scrub...not unlike that Reed clown in Baltimore who wears #20...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's more food for thought...

We signed LFB after a 5-11 season when he was 31 and OJ (30) is the same type of player on and off the field.

That signing worked out pretty well..

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Here's more food for thought...

We signed LFB after a 5-11 season when he was 31 and OJ (30) is the same type of player on and off the field.

That signing worked out pretty well..

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 7:28 PM |

NO, NO ONE OVER 30 EVER!!! I wonder how many of these guys wanted Champ in here? Maybe I'm wrong but wasn't it ol' Hessy that wanted Champ in here? It coulda been h8.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 7:31 PM | Report abuse

My line of thinking is soundly in the camp of "rebuild the right way". Save your resources for guys who will be with the team for the long haul.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 2:27 PM

So I put the same question to you that hess continues to dodge, who then?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 2:51 PM | Report abuse


C'mon scamp.

You're up here reading my drivel as often as I'm reading yours. Go after the guys that I've been barking about -

*Ryan Harris
*Jamaal Brown
*Re-up Laron Landry
*Jacoby Jones
*Robert Gallery
*Need a CB if we can't get someone like Ras-I Dowling in the latter 2nd/early 3rd round; someone like Richard Marshall, CHris Houston or Josh Wilson.
*Extend Santana Moss for another 2 years
*D'Qwell Jackson (make sure he passes physical)
*Pass on drafting a QB and bring in Alex Smith

The only guys that are 30 on that list are Santana Moss and RObert Gallery. I believe Santana can be had at a hometown discount, and I hope Robert Gallery would be amenable to signing for something reasonable. Brown is 29, but having sat out a year of football and working back from injury, I'm banking on him having some good football left.

Otherwise the rest are all 20-somethings who still have a good shot at playing at their prime potential 2-3 years from now, when we can reasonably expect to be contending for something.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya p1, my point really was just if not Atogwe or some other FA then are you happy with what we have now, because in no way should we draft high a FS.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 7:40 PM | Report abuse

*Ryan Harris
*Jamaal Brown
*Re-up Laron Landry
*Jacoby Jones
*Robert Gallery
*Need a CB if we can't get someone like Ras-I Dowling in the latter 2nd/early 3rd round; someone like Richard Marshall, CHris Houston or Josh Wilson.
*Extend Santana Moss for another 2 years
*D'Qwell Jackson (make sure he passes physical)
*Pass on drafting a QB and bring in Alex Smith

The only guys that are 30 on that list are Santana Moss and RObert Gallery. I believe Santana can be had at a hometown discount, and I hope Robert Gallery would be amenable to signing for something reasonable. Brown is 29, but having sat out a year of football and working back from injury, I'm banking on him having some good football left.

Otherwise the rest are all 20-somethings who still have a good shot at playing at their prime potential 2-3 years from now, when we can reasonably expect to be contending for something.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

I would like all of those guys.

And who is Ras-I Dowling? I want him just because that's a cool f-cking name.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Team on the cusp? That's kind of revisionist history, dude...the two seasons before their SB run the Saints finished 7-9 and 8-8. In case you forgot, before they got Brees, they were a putrid franchise made worse by Hurricane Katrina. It's not like this was a perennial playoff team like the Colts or the Chargers and Brees and/or Sharper was the missing piece. The Saints plodded along, collected the best players they could get at positions of need, and were Bowl-bound in Year 4 of the Payton Era.


Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 6:35 PM | Report abuse

First off, Bress was like 27 years old when the Saints signed him; so he doesn't count as a 30+ FA.

Second, the Saints were one of the top offensive teams in the league in 2006-2008. Brees was destroying the league, and in '06 they'd been to a conference championship before regressing.

Their issues were clearly on the defensive side of the ball. So it made sense for that team - given where they were at - to invest in a 30+ playmaking safety so that they could make their run.

We have close to NOTHING established on this team. We have a running back (who we hope can stay healthy), a LT, a couple tight ends, and 3-4 bonafide starters on defense.

You're trying to draw a correlation between where the Saints were as a frnachise when they got Sharper and where the Skins are now.

Apples to Oranges.


Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:50 PM | Report abuse

p1funk-

Sharper was 34 and OJ is 30. Terrible analogy all around.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse


Well it wasn't my analogy. I was responding to Brown's.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:51 PM | Report abuse

p1- Take out Robert Gallery and that's my list. If we wanted Dowling then we would have to use our 2nd. He's a big CB climbing the draft boards.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 7:51 PM | Report abuse

What's the name of that guard from Atlanta? Anyone?

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Alex Smith will be the next Redskins savior!

Wow, I flip-flop a lot.

I would be happy if we signed him though.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

I would like all of those guys.

And who is Ras-I Dowling? I want him just because that's a cool f-cking name.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Ras-I Dowling is the guy I hope we can grab in the 2nd/3rd if we can pick up an extra pick by trading out of #10.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010rdowling.php

He's 1st round talent, but he may slip b/c he's coming off of a few injuries and working his way back.

I also know as a personal fact that he's got his head on straight. Quality character all the way.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Banks finally leaves the hospital

That dude Banks was pretty lucky. If the stab wound was an inch lower it could have been fatal. Another dude that was lucky was that dude that AH punched in the nose in the road rage incident. Now admittedly getting punched in the nose is never fun, but it wasn't much of a punch since AH had to stick his arm through the car window. On the other hand he got to give AH the finger and he is going to be getting $$$ from him in a civic suit. He will be able to upgrade his '94 Civic ride.

Posted by: BiggerVance | February 21, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

ih8-

The falcons have two quality FAs
RT- Tyson Clabo
RG- Harvey Dahl

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 8:08 PM | Report abuse

ih8-

The falcons have two quality FAs
RT- Tyson Clabo
RG- Harvey Dahl


Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 8:08 PM | Report abuse

thanks Diesel

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 8:08 PM |

Vin dude - I hear your next F&F flick is coming out at the end of April. And The Rock is going to co-star! Wow. Two ripped shave-heads! I'll bet there's going to be a lot of sexual tension in some scenes. Heh, heh.

Posted by: BiggerVance | February 21, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

But our issue isn't about making this team better for 2011 or 2012 -- its got to be about a 3 year plan.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 7:11 PM

No, zeke, you're way wrong. Our issue is about making this team better every year, starting this year.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Black College HOF induction ceremony:

http://www.hbcuclassics.com/hbcu_showcase

Posted by: typrather | February 21, 2011 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BiggerVance | February 21, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

sexual tension in some scenes. Heh, heh.

There is tension when u watch him bang ur wife/gf

Posted by: skinswillwin | February 21, 2011 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Not really interested in talking to my taint for very long but I do think it would be more productive...might look kinda funny though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2011 6:45 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ewwwww

Phuking Taint Boy.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

You're trying to draw a correlation between where the Saints were as a frnachise when they got Sharper and where the Skins are now.

Apples to Oranges.

Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:50 PM


Actually, I'm trying to say that when the Saints began their "rebuilding", they used FA and the draft and some of the FAs they signed were 30+. While I agree that avoiding 30+ FAs is a good rule of thumb, I'm saying that the case of Atogwe is an exception. Guys like Dawkins and Reed are playing well past 30 and playing at a high level (although Dawkins dropped off quite a bit in 2010)...for a fair investment in Atogwe, I'd be willing to gamble we'll see the same in this instance.

But that's just how I see it...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2011 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Newton will throw at the combine. Most 1st RD guys don't. Props to him.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Newton will throw at the combine. Most 1st RD guys don't. Props to him.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 8:52 PM

He's looking to distance himself from Gabbert, Good for him.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 9:11 PM | Report abuse

"He's looking to distance himself from Gabbert, Good for him."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In which direction?

Perhaps Gabbert is distancing himself from Scab Newton

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 9:21 PM | Report abuse

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hard-hits/2011/02/if_i_were_in_charge_of_the_red.html

Check out Lavar's ideas for the draft...I don't agree, shocker.

TWISI- I've said all along that if a QB is the choice at 10 then it has to be Newton based off of potential.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

dislocated shoulders are career-enders for tacklers. do not sign him. he'll never be the same.

Posted by: heltzooor | February 21, 2011 9:23 PM | Report abuse

No, zeke, you're way wrong. Our issue is about making this team better every year, starting this year.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 8:15 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Okay. Okay. I guess I should give you a clue detective...zeke is not a Redskin fan.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 9:31 PM | Report abuse

"Check out Lavar's ideas for the draft...I don't agree, shocker."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You have to understand. Lavar was high when he wrote it. I know cuz I've smoked with him b4. There must be a QP of resin residing in his hair.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Apples to Oranges.


Posted by: p1funk | February 21, 2011 7:50 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I always hate this analogy...as if they both aren't fruits.

It's like that lame Einstein quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Has the nigga ever heard of a saying called "practice makes perfect?"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Alex Smith will be the next Redskins savior!

Wow, I flip-flop a lot.

I would be happy if we signed him though.

Posted by: iH8dallas | February 21, 2011 7:56 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh you mean coach killer, Alex Smith? First the problem with the offense was Mike Nolan, then it was Jimmy Rayes fault, but once Jimmy Raye left there was only Mike Singletary and Alex Smith and who do the 49ers cut? Nothing like a team taking themselves out of contention before the season even starts eh?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

TWISI- I've said all along that if a QB is the choice at 10 then it has to be Newton based off of potential.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 9:22 PM

I'd agree with you there. I think neither would be there at #10 anyways, which should push a very good defensive line prospect down.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

He looked like Jefferson in Fast Times after Spicoli wrecked his Camaro....granted it was pre-season, but the guy was a beast!

Posted by: WaitingGuilty | February 21, 2011 7:00 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Interesting depiction. Could you possibly rephrase for the geriatrically challenged?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:04 PM | Report abuse

TWISI- I've said all along that if a QB is the choice at 10 then it has to be Newton based off of potential.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 9:22 PM

I'd agree with you there. I think neither would be there at #10 anyways, which should push a very good defensive line prospect down.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 10:01 PM

With Newton throwing at the combine I could see him going to the Bills at 3 and with the Titans seemingly eyeing Flabbert at 8...we could see someone like Quinn, Dareus, or Prince falling to us.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

With Newton throwing at the combine I could see him going to the Bills at 3 and with the Titans seemingly eyeing Flabbert at 8...we could see someone like Quinn, Dareus, or Prince falling to us.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 10:10 PM

I've read where some believe Dareus will come in heavy at the combine (must be a Roll Tide thing). So he could def slide himself back this week. I'd be happy with anyone of those players.

Posted by: TWISI | February 21, 2011 10:15 PM | Report abuse

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Warren Sapp thinks Dareus is better than Fairley

That's enough reason for me to stay away from him

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:19 PM | Report abuse

"That dude Banks was pretty lucky. If the stab wound was an inch lower it could have been fatal."

Posted by: BrotherVance | February 21, 2011 7:59 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You got it wrong brother. an inch lower and that shrimp would be missing a big toe. He hoola hoops with a cheerio!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Melo is now a Knick...

Reaction...

I don't care.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 10:25 PM | Report abuse

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reaction?

I can't wait for the movie directed by Spiked Lee...?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:35 PM

See that's pretty good. You don't have to be a dick with all of your handles.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 10:46 PM | Report abuse

See that's pretty good. You don't have to be a dick with all of your handles.

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 21, 2011 10:46 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Which handles are these?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:51 PM | Report abuse

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually a big Spike Lee fan.

Miracle at St. Anna and Girl 6 are in my fav 2

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My mistake...heh heh. scratch Girl 6, although a good movie Spike Lee only acted in the movie

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | February 21, 2011 10:58 PM | Report abuse

But our issue isn't about making this team better for 2011 or 2012 -- its got to be about a 3 year plan.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 7:11 PM

No, zeke, you're way wrong. Our issue is about making this team better every year, starting this year.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 21, 2011 8:15 PM

Atogwe would make us better this year. But I'd rather spend the same resources on someone who can help us for the next 5-7 years, not risk spending it on a guy who might only be a 2-3 year solution. The Bill Walsh philosophy, which worked quite well as all those rings would attest, says its better to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late. Well, Atogwe would be at the age we'd look to release him when we've rebuilt the team.

As for the comparisons to other FS, Atogwe isn't Dawkins or Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott or Darren Sharper. He's good, but he's not one of those guys.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Ronnie Lott and Ed Reed aren't available. Sharper was 34 when signed by N.O. and Brian Dawkins was 36.

OJ is 30. You must have been against the LFB signing because he was 31. You've got nothing....

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 22, 2011 12:24 AM | Report abuse

I see the thing that should not be showed his ugly face here tonight...glad I was working.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 22, 2011 12:40 AM | Report abuse

for those who want some insight about drafting WRs, here's a nice chart put together by Mike Sando

chart shows average 2010 stats by draft round for all wide receivers selected in 2009
Rd #picked catches yds TDs
1 6 57.2 794.3 7.0
2 2 32.5 396.5 2.5
3 7 18.6 313.4 2.4
4 4 52.0 673.3 3.8
5 3 17.0 320.0 1.7
6 3 17.7 206.7 0.7
7 8 4.9 54.5 0.0
All 33 26.9 377.6 2.6

not sure if this part will show up well, but here are the better WRs from the 2009 draft.

2009 NFL Draft: Top WR Producers in 2010
Round Team WR Rec. Yards TD
1 NYG Nicks 79 1,052 11
1 MIN Harvin 71 868 5
1 PHI maclin 70 964 10
4 JAC MThomas 66 820 4
3 PIT Wallace 60 1,257 10
4 IND Collie 58 649 8
1 SF Crabtree 55 741 6
6 PHI gibson 53 620 2
5 CHI Knox 51 960 5
4 MIA Hartline 43 615 1
1 TEN Britt 42 775 9
4 OAK Murphy 41 609 2
2 CLE Massaquoi 36 483 2
3 SEA DButler 36 385 4
2 CLE Robiskie 29 310 3
1 OAK Heyward-Bey 26 366 1
3 NE Tate 24 432 3
7 TB Stroughter 24 239 0

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 22, 2011 1:19 AM | Report abuse

zeke- nice post and after digesting the numbers...nothing really shocking. Are you suggesting we draft Julio and hope he goes for 57 catches 794 YDs and 7 TDs with our QB and behind our OL? I'd take the under...

Posted by: Diesel44 | February 22, 2011 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Ronnie Lott and Ed Reed aren't available. Sharper was 34 when signed by N.O. and Brian Dawkins was 36.

OJ is 30. You must have been against the LFB signing because he was 31. You've got nothing....

Posted by: Diesel44

Believe what you want. I liked the Fletcher signing because we were closer to being competitive and he came at a fair price.

I'm not against older players -- but bringing in older players into a rebuilding effort isn't where I'd invest my resources. Atogwe is a nice player and if we had the 15th best defense with a hole at FS and were a 9-7 team with McNabb playing good ball, I'd probably go for the idea. We'd be close enough to invest in a 30 yr old DB.

But we were near the bottom in defense and both of our lines are in dire need of help. That is where we need to invest.

As for the ages of the other guys, I wasn't suggesting they were available -- some folks up here had used these names as a reason to expect Atogwe to be good for several more years. I'm just saying, he's not been in the same class as those guys, so I wouldn't project him the same way.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 22, 2011 1:37 AM | Report abuse

zeke- nice post and after digesting the numbers...nothing really shocking. Are you suggesting we draft Julio and hope he goes for 57 catches 794 YDs and 7 TDs with our QB and behind our OL? I'd take the under...

Posted by: Diesel44 |

I'm not doing much interpreting of the numbers at this point. Its kind of a small sample (just 1 year), but I guess what stands out is that there wasn't much difference between rounds 2, 3 and 5, while round 4 was kind of fluky good.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 22, 2011 1:41 AM | Report abuse

Atogwe would make us better this year. But I'd rather spend the same resources on someone who can help us for the next 5-7 years, not risk spending it on a guy who might only be a 2-3 year solution. The Bill Walsh philosophy, which worked quite well as all those rings would attest, says its better to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late. Well, Atogwe would be at the age we'd look to release him when we've rebuilt the team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 21, 2011 11:43 PM

So? And when we release him we spend the money we would have paid him to get someone else.

Look, your second sentence is tautological. More is better than less, younger is better than old. Gee whiz. Simple fact is that a younger guy would cost more than an older guy. That's how markets work. So you'd moan that the younger guy costs too much.

Atogwe could fill a gaping hole on the Redskins D and solves one problem without spending a draft pick. And he's not Ed Reed? Really? Zeke, if he were Ed Reed you'd be complaining that he's too expensive, too old -- 32 -- and we'd have to let him go a year too early because that's what Bill Walsh did to get those Super Bowl rings.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 6:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm not against older players -- but bringing in older players into a rebuilding effort isn't where I'd invest my resources. Atogwe is a nice player and if we had the 15th best defense with a hole at FS and were a 9-7 team with McNabb playing good ball, I'd probably go for the idea. We'd be close enough to invest in a 30 yr old DB.

But we were near the bottom in defense and both of our lines are in dire need of help. That is where we need to invest.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 22, 2011 1:37 AM


Two misconceptions in play here:

A) That we're light years away from contention. We're not. This is the NFL, not the NBA. Even with solid-yet-unspectacular play at QB, we've got a chance to be better on offense. The defense could take a step forward with a couple of breaks. Teams go from worst to first fairly often in the NFL and we've got a chance to do the same.

B) That the team thinks like we do. We're fans so we're supposed to have a different perspective than the team. It's one thing for us to say "We've got no shot at the playoffs", but the team is supposed to work toward a Super Bowl EVERY year...whether conventional wisdom agrees with them or not. That's not to say you go for broke trying to win it in that season like Snyder has done in the past, but you still should make moves toward being better. You don't pass on an obvious upgrade simply because the guy isn't likely to play for 5 more years. That's just not good business.

3) That the defense was epic awful. It wasn't. If you noticed, there were two or three REALLY bad performances that put the Redskins near the bottom of the defensive rankings. Not to mention, they improved in the takeaway department, the main goal for that unit coming into the season. Plus, they played the 2nd half of the season without Landry and for all intents and purposes without a NT. I think this defense would show a lot of improvement even if the only move we make all offseason is shoring up the NT position.

I'm not saying vast improvement is likely...I'm just saying that it's foolish to rule it out and pass on veteran help because of it. There are countless examples of teams that didn't contend one year turn it around the next due in part to acquiring veteran help. As long as we're not overpaying for it, this team should embrace veteran help...not avoid it like the plague...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 6:14 AM | Report abuse

Simple fact is that a younger guy would cost more than an older guy. That's how markets work. So you'd moan that the younger guy costs too much.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 6:10 AM


Thank you.

If Atogwe were 26, he'd be twice as expensive. Then we'd be hearing the "nothing's changed" and "boycott $nyder" crowd crying like little girls. Then if we sit on our hands and wait for a savior in the draft, it's neglect. There's just no winning.

I just don't get why so many assume that Atogwe is going to be so expensive...you sign him to what is a fair contract that's light on the guarantees but heavy on the base salary and incentives. The only way he's making big money is if he's playing at a high level. If he's playing at a high level, then he's obviously worth the investment.

If he agrees to those terms, then everyone wins. I just don't get how anyone can see a downside to this...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 6:25 AM | Report abuse

ty beep for the word tautological.

Most of the posts are either tautological or not.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | February 22, 2011 6:37 AM | Report abuse

Most of the posts are either tautological or not.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | February 22, 2011 6:37 AM

Good one. Did you mean "ALL of the posts are either tautological or not"?

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Most of the posts are either tautological or not.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | February 22, 2011 6:37 AM

Some are taintological.

Posted by: dcsween | February 22, 2011 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Ideally we get a new thread this morning. This dead horse, the Atogwe topic, has been well beaten and will start to turn soon (and not like in a tasty horse jerky kind of way). Atogwe wants to stay in St. Louis and he's just trying to figure what sorts of contract numbers to take back to them.

I'm pleased that we have not been discussing Bob Sanders ... which means, of course, that Sanders probably becomes a Skin next year ....

Posted by: dcsween | February 22, 2011 7:36 AM | Report abuse

"Sampson151- any stat showcasing his ineptness in the redzone. He was OK between the 20's but SUCKED in the redzone.Posted by: Diesel44"

Couldn't you argue that a chunk of that suckiness was who he threw the ball to?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 22, 2011 7:38 AM | Report abuse

twisi

I think that can of thinking is what got Josh McDaniels fired.

Poor analogy from a respected mind.

Josh Daniels was fired for the Cutler-Marshall trade, the Tebow draft (who drafts a project quarterback in the 1st round?), trading Peyton Hillis for somebody named Brady Quinn, and just simply not getting things done in the W-L column over tow seasons.

Yes, the Cutler-Marshall picks should've reaped fine players.

But I bet J Daniels' draft day selections were the least of his issues.

And to that end, again, I see market, not draftnik logic.

The new market in the league is athletic interior linemen who pressure the quarterback AND drop back into coverage.

Too, 3-4 teams will follow the ravens' lead an stock up on 3 solid NTs so they can have a fresh guy beating up offensive linemen.

The redskins have a porous defense with converted defensive linemen simply not suitable or, in the case of AH, not willing to play up to pedigree.

The redskins should walk away from the draft and FA with 3 solid defensive linemen.

And I don't care when the players are drafted, just that they are drafted.

Draftniks are thinking slotting.

Football guys are thinking, which guys fit what we do?

And if you watched our defense last year, it did very little well.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 22, 2011 7:43 AM | Report abuse

My assumptions going into the draft:

1. There are no positions where the Redskins couldn't use help. They just need more help at some positions than others.

2. At best, the Skins have enough draft choices to address maybe half their needs through this year's draft.

3. A max of maybe 60% of their choices will contribute much in the next two seasons. The others will bust or struggle.

4. The FA market will still include some players who can help the Skins win now.

5. When we identify one, we should strive to sign him. Or her. Or it.

6. The Skins could get lucky, and win a lot of games, or unlucky, and lose a lot of games, or somewhere in between.

7. Be a good idea to accumulate some more draft choices in future.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 22, 2011 7:44 AM | Report abuse

And I don't care when the players are drafted, just that they are drafted.

Draftniks are thinking slotting.

Football guys are thinking, which guys fit what we do?

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 22, 2011 7:43 AM

Exactly...the Jags quietly struck gold with Tyson Alualu at #10 at a time when the collective football-watching world said "who?" Now they have one of the best DT rotations in the league.

It'll look like a "reach" on paper, but if Phil Taylor ends up being an elite-level NT who's gonna care that we took him 15 or 20 spots ahead of what was expected?

I sure won't.

Get a big-time pass rusher, get a NT...but for the love of God, just don't get a QB at #10...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 7:52 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

Get a big-time pass rusher, get a NT

This is where I am.

The redskins spent ten years ignoring the offensive AND defensive lines.

We've added T Williams, S Capers, E Cook via the draft recently, but continue to look away when 6' 3" 340 NTs with athleticism are availiable.

Let's get one this year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 22, 2011 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Signing high character, experienced veterans has to be part of any program to rebuild through the draft.

Players like London Fletcher and Atogwe are needed to provide leadership and guidance to the young players we add through the draft. Someone is needed to provide an example for rookies to follow. I think this is part of the reason New England has had such success. In free agency and the draft they look for hard workers, dedicated football players. Everyone works hard, and everyone feeds off each other.

The other point in favour of signing Atogwe is that it is impossible to rely solely on the draft. Even if you keep all your draft picks, 7 new players a year isn't enough. Sure you can have as many undrafted guys as you want, but even first round choices are little more than 50:50 prospects at the pro-level. There will always be a need to pick up proven veterans. Most will be bit part player on minimums, but it is ok to pay the going rate for good players.

There is room on the roster for signing free agents of age and salary Otogwe will command. As long as we don't over-pay him. If we don't tie him in to a cap killing signing bonus that keeps him on the roster way past his use by date, it is all good.

He should have 3-4 years left before the serious decline starts. So he may not be starting by the point any re-buidling program starts to bear fruit, but he would contribute to the development of the players who will be in the their prime.

In the meantime, Otogwe wwould make us a better team, which will make us more attractive to free-agents, that are available 3-4 years down the line. Our draft picks would have more chance of growing within a winning culture and less likely to go through the problems Orakpo has shown in dealing with constant losing.

Posted by: WeNeedLinemen | February 22, 2011 8:04 AM | Report abuse

100% co-sign, Moe.

I was on the "load up on O-line" bandwagon, but the more I learn about this draft the more it looks like a defense-rich market. Last year's draft was the time to go all-in on OL help and now is the time to go all-in on D.

Here's hoping this regime sticks to the script...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:05 AM | Report abuse

I just don't get why so many assume that Atogwe is going to be so expensive...you sign him to what is a fair contract that's light on the guarantees but heavy on the base salary and incentives. The only way he's making big money is if he's playing at a high level. If he's playing at a high level, then he's obviously worth the investment.

If he agrees to those terms, then everyone wins. I just don't get how anyone can see a downside to this...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 6:25 AM | Report abuse


Seriously.

We assume that because last season he held out and barked about wanting to get paid $8mill/year.

Is there any more direct evidence we need to assume that he's looking for big $$?

What on earth makes you think he's going to agree to some middling contract that's light on guarantees and heavy on incentives?

If he didn't agree to that kind of contract with the "hometown" Rams where he thrived, why is he going to throw us a bone?

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Two misconceptions in play here:

A) That we're light years away from contention. We're not.

3) That the defense was epic awful.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 6:14 AM | Report abuse


So how close are we Brown?

I mean we don't have a QB, we don't have half an Oline, we don't have a #1 or #2 WR, and we have a 4-3 defense playing 3-4 schemes that can't get to the QB and ranked 31st in yards allowed.

And the cherry on top is this: Albert Haynesworth led our Dlinemen in sacks, and we are going to lose him as well.

How many players away are we?


Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:19 AM | Report abuse

There is room on the roster for signing free agents of age and salary Otogwe will command. As long as we don't over-pay him. If we don't tie him in to a cap killing signing bonus that keeps him on the roster way past his use by date, it is all good.

Posted by: WeNeedLinemen | February 22, 2011 8:04 AM | Report abuse

I keep hearing this line of thinking from the Pro-Atogwe camp.

It's all going to be good as long as he signs for the "right" price with the "right" contract.

Of course it's easy to make that argument for just about any FA out there - they'd improve our team for the right price.


Let's deal with reality:

Last year Atogwe held out with the Rams and sought $7-8mill/year.

He eventually re-signed with a contract paying him more than $6mill/year.


So...what exactly is the "right price" for this guy?

What can we reasonably expect him to be demanding in a contract when he sits down with Bruce and Co.?

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:29 AM | Report abuse

What on earth makes you think he's going to agree to some middling contract that's light on guarantees and heavy on incentives?

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:09 AM


Um, because that's EXACTLY what he signed with the Rams last year. How else do you figure he's free again?

And I don't know where you keep getting this stuff about him holding out...he was franchised, failed to get a long term deal worked out, got the franchise tag pulled and got a rude awakening as to what his value on the open market REALLY is. If he thinks he's getting $8 million/per (and I still don't see where he's ever said that), then he's sadly mistaken.

Now, if you make the case that going back to the Rams for a "middling contract that's light on guarantees and heavy on incentives" is more appealing, then I get that. But to paint the picture that he's out for a money grab is a little disingenous, IMO...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:31 AM | Report abuse

p1funk

How many players away are we?

Our recovery from mediocrity begins the first day someone in the redskin FO realizes just how bad things are.

Too, we are in a division where two franchises--the Giants/Eagles--have been able to tear down their rosters and later field competitive teams.

Each team in the NFC East also has a fairly decent quarterback while we go into another draft wondering if we should start out all over again at the position.

Anyone of us could speculate just where the rebuilding should begin--let's just hope the people paid to make those decisions do what's best to bring a great franchise back into the championship fold.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 22, 2011 8:41 AM | Report abuse

This is the story on Atogwe's contract:

At face value, safety Oshiomogho Atogwe's new contract with the Rams is worth $31.6 million over five years. But because of the way it's structured, it very well could be only a one-year, $4.1 million deal if the Rams are unwilling to pay an $8 million roster bonus due next February.

According to figures filed with the NFL Players Association, Atogwe receives base salaries of $2.1 million this year, $3.5 million in 2011, $5.5 million in '12 and '13, and $5 million in 2014. That all adds up to $21.6 million.

The additional $10 million (of the $31.6 million total) comes into play as follows:

• Atogwe received a $2 million roster bonus on July 1.

• He is scheduled to receive an $8 million roster bonus on Feb. 21, 2011.

Obviously, $8 million is a lot of money. If Atogwe has a very good season, the Rams probably will pay the bonus. If he doesn't, they probably won't.

Atogwe can void the contract himself if he's still on the Rams' roster by Feb. 7, the day after the Super Bowl in Dallas. But Atogwe's ability to void almost certainly won't be exercised.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/article_16309606-6032-56e5-8edc-34384d9b946f.html

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 8:44 AM | Report abuse

How many players away are we?

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:19 AM


I think you know the answer to this question.

There's no finite number. Few (if any) SB teams go into the season without a hole that needs to be filled or a unit that needs better depth.

The Ravens won a SB without an offense. The Steelers won one without an O-line. The Rams won one with an average at best defense. The Ginas won with a dominant pass rush but little else.

I recognize those teams had a very good (if not dominant) side of the ball that carried them, but who's to say the Skins can't put together a side of the ball that plays very well ahead of schedule?

Let's say the Skins sign Atogwe and draft a stud OLB and NT in April. Maybe another mid-level FA plays above expectations and we get lucky health-wise. The D could go from bottom 5 to top 5 immediately. With merely competent QB play and steadier play at the point of attack, are you saying the offense couldn't be adequate?

Again...not saying all that is likely but it's not impossible. If you can get Atogwe for a fair salary you do it...passing on a guy because of a moderately advanced age is counterproductive.

Let me ask you this...if Atogwe were to agree to a contract that's light on guarantees and heavy on incentives, would you still be against signing him? Or is your stance against him more because of his age?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:31 AM | Report abuse

The point is that he wants to get paid. His decisions/moves last season were all about him getting paid. There's no reason to believe that the motivations have changed.

He's not going to come to Redskins Park with hat in hand begging to be signed so that he can reunite with Jim Haslett.

When he hit the "market" last season it was very late in the FA game. The Rams had the advantage in the scenario b/c they used the tag. If anything, the advantage of his contract put the 8mill bonus in Feb, guaranteeing he would either get paid or hit the market early enough to really test it.

If he's all the impact playmaker that he's being billed as, then there's going to be some kind of market for his services.

He's talked about returning to the Rams. The posturing is all about leveraging a deal.

So what do we pay him? How much would you invest in him?

And I'm just talking about some general outline of a contract with a particular blend of guarantees and incentives; I'm asking about figures.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Hi guys [and gals? ... are there any left?]. I need a little help.

Does anyone know where I can pick up 5 pounds of cooked bacon for a party on saturday?

..sounds awesome, doesn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | February 22, 2011 8:54 AM | Report abuse

How many players away are we?

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:19 AM

Hey, funk, how many "players away" do you think we are. And how many "players away" should a team be before they consider signing Atogwe?

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Great find, Beep...I wouldn't be opposed to us signing him to something similar to that, only I'd look to move that option bonus to Year 3 or something.

It's not like this is 2006...we're not in cap hell anymore. Once the cap comes back, we'll probably be in the best cap shape we've been in since Marty left town. Making one signing like Atogwe isn't going to set this franchise back for years, nor is it going to kill our cap for this year or any future years. Paying the man market value isn't a bad thing...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

The point is that he wants to get paid. His decisions/moves last season were all about him getting paid. There's no reason to believe that the motivations have changed.

He's not going to come to Redskins Park with hat in hand begging to be signed so that he can reunite with Jim Haslett.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:53 AM

And your point is that we should only talk to free agents who don't want to get paid and are begging to be reunited with this coach or that coach? p1funk thinks we should call Joey Galloway!

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:01 AM | Report abuse

So what do we pay him? How much would you invest in him?

I'm asking about figures.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:53 AM

And what do you think we should be willing to pay him? Specific figures, please, not just your usual wind.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:09 AM | Report abuse

New thread y'all...same topic, but new thread...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Seems like a no brainer to me, we dont have to give up the farm or franchise our future for a better then average player that fills a position of need. Above all he is a good character person, that goes a long way at this point with this team. He is familiar with our D, I might go as far as to say if it weren't for him Haslett may not be our DC right now, he played great for him.
Cant see what all the hulabouloo is about, my only qualm is the number, he aint getting 21.

Posted by: Stu27 | February 22, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Let me ask you this...if Atogwe were to agree to a contract that's light on guarantees and heavy on incentives, would you still be against signing him? Or is your stance against him more because of his age?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 22, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse


My point is this. Once you spend the money, it's spent. Here is a list of guys/needs that I would sooner spend money on than OJ Atogwe.

1) Extend Laron Landry
2) Ryan Harris
3) Jamaal Brown
4) D'Qwell Jackson
5) Alex Smith
6) Jacoby Jones
7) Another OLB
8) Nose Tackle
9) Cornerback


The Redskins are a team without a foundation. They should focus on building the foundation. 30 year old free agents are generally not players you put in your foundation. There's only one London Fletcher.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 9:15 AM | Report abuse

The point is that he wants to get paid. His decisions/moves last season were all about him getting paid. There's no reason to believe that the motivations have changed.

He's not going to come to Redskins Park with hat in hand begging to be signed so that he can reunite with Jim Haslett.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:53 AM

And your point is that we should only talk to free agents who don't want to get paid and are begging to be reunited with this coach or that coach? p1funk thinks we should call Joey Galloway!

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:01 AM | Report abuse


Right beep. That's my point exactly. I think we should call Joey Galloway. That's what I said precisely.

Thanks for starting your a$$baggery early on today. But since you're in the mood, I'll entertain it for a little while. Now it's my turn.

""Hey everyone! Beep's point is that we should max out every old FA we can find. He wants to go back to Vinny days. Beep-beep thinks we shuold give Plaxico Burress and Shaun Rogers $50 million guaranteed. Hardy-har-har!!!""

Now it's your turn.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 8:53 AM

And what do you think we should be willing to pay him? Specific figures, please, not just your usual wind.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:09 AM | Report abuse


I don't think we should pay him.

You do.

Stop the doushy-routine and let us all know what kind of contract you'd like to give him, if you have a clue.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 9:21 AM | Report abuse

My point is this. Once you spend the money, it's spent. Here is a list of guys/needs that I would sooner spend money on than OJ Atogwe.

1) Extend Laron Landry
2) Ryan Harris
3) Jamaal Brown
4) D'Qwell Jackson
5) Alex Smith
6) Jacoby Jones
7) Another OLB
8) Nose Tackle
9) Cornerback

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 9:15 AM

Not a single FS on the list. So, you're sticking with Kareem Moore or waiting for someone to come begging to be reunited?

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:30 AM | Report abuse

c'mon guys:

BACON!

..focus!

Posted by: DikShuttle | February 22, 2011 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we should pay him.

Posted by: p1funk | February 22, 2011 9:21 AM

So, you're saying that if he comes begging with his hat (helmet?) in his hand to be reunited with Hasslett at the league minimum that you'd say "No?" There is absolutely no wage low enough that you'd sign him?

Personally, I'd pick up the contract that he signed with the Rams. Pay him the $8 mill bonus now and then the remaining salary. Free safety problem solved.

Posted by: beep-beep | February 22, 2011 9:36 AM | Report abuse

"Get a big-time pass rusher, get a NT...but for the love of God, just don't get a QB at #10...Posted by: brownwood26"

I don't understand that reasoning. Sure, if Marcel Dareus or DaQuan Bowers is there, grab him. But Cam Jordan or Adrian Clayborn? I'd have to think about that. Phil Taylor? That's an outright reach at 10.

If Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert are available at ten, alongside Jordan or Clayborn, the QB may well be the better choice. You just know going in that you have to wait longer for them to develop.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 22, 2011 12:37 PM | Report abuse

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