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Report: Vincent Jackson suspended 3 games

On the heels of reports that the Redskins are interested in trading for San Diego Chargers disgruntled wide receiver Vincent Jackson, ESPN is reporting that Jackson has been suspended three games by the NFL for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

Jackson pleaded guilty to driving under the influence in February, his second conviction, and ESPN's Adam Schefter, citing a league source, said the NFL has reached a decision regarding the suspension.

"We have not made any announcements and do not have a comment on the report," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said in an email. "The matter remains under review."

The NFL does not announce suspensions until after the completion of the appeals process.

According to a report on ProFootballTalk.com, Redskins rookie left tackle Trent Williams has signed with agent Ben Dogra of CAA.

Williams fired agent Eugene Parker last month, telling Comcast SportsNet's Kelli Johnson that they "weren't a good fit."

Dogra also represents linebacker Brian Orakpo, the Redskins' first-round draft pick last year. Orakpo missed just one day of training camp before signing. In an interview on the Redskins' final day of minicamp, Williams said that he did not expect to hold out and that if he did it would be a short one.

"I can't guarantee that it won't be a minor holdout, but I guarantee it won't be more than a day if I do," Williams said. "They got me with the first group so I really can't afford to miss any practice. I stressed that to my agent and [we'll] see if we can get me to camp on time."

By Paul Tenorio  |  July 1, 2010; 1:22 PM ET
 
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Comments

his asking price is already too high...now he misses near a quarter of the first season? forget it. there are better ways to improve than by adding more prima donnas to the team...

Posted by: bacaje | July 1, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

repost

Roy, you may want to try some decaf for your next cup of Joe. Wow, a rare quad!

Everyone is commenting on how MS and BA are so disappointed in DT and MK. Yes, they have brought in quite a few wr's. But I have not seen a single quote from either one that says they are not happy with them. Yes, they are interested in VJax. That still doesn't say they arenot happy with 11 and 12.

Now that VJax will miss several games at beginning of season, and we are waiting to hear if SMoss will be suspended for the same period, I think VJax is less desirable.

If we could swap picks like we did for JBrown, I'd be interested. But I don't want to part with our 2nd round pick next year.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Love when WaPo shows up to what's supposed to be their own party late...PFT covers THE WHOLE LEAGUE and routinely beats RI to breaking news effecting the one and ONLY team it covers. Simply stunning...

But kudos for hearing the cries of RI Nation and taking down that insufferable pic of Ray Lewis. 'Bout f-ing time...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 1, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I agree, bring on T.O.

Posted by: coparker5 | July 1, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Does the WP stand for "White Party"?

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Everyone is commenting on how MS and BA are so disappointed in DT and MK

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 1:30 PM

They won"t say that publicly. They would say that they are always looking to improve the competition at every spot. However, the moves they've made indicates that they are less than pleased with the way the WR group has functioned thus far. Yes, they can roll with the current group and hope the either Thomas or Kelly steps up, but it sure looks like that is not their preferred course of action.

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

The ONLY reason I can think of to bring on an aging, past his prime WR(T.O.) is to give AH someone to talk to.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | July 1, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I guess my e-mail Jason campaign worked. Got a picture of an actual Redskin within hours. Ahhh... The Power...The Influence...Can I start my Presidential bid now?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

THANK GOD that stupid azz Ray Lewis picture has finally been taken down....between having that Norv Turner image up for a week or so earlier this offseason, and then that Ray Lewis picture....well, it just shows what the Washingpost is made of....pitiful.

Posted by: frmi | July 1, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Roy Hobbs4 is certainly no natural w/ the back2back2back2back posts. Although maybe he called his shot w/ the 4 in his handle.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 1, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I guess my e-mail Jason campaign worked. Got a picture of an actual Redskin within hours. Ahhh... The Power...The Influence...Can I start my Presidential bid now?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 1:51 PM |

My vote is for sale.

Sincerely,
Rod Blagojevich

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

My vote is for sale.

Sincerely,
Rod Blagojevich

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended

I know you can't be him. Blagojevich doesn't know how to use a computer.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I know you can't be him. Blagojevich doesn't know how to use a computer.

Posted by: kaasmaster

And Al Gore invented the internet too

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | July 1, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know Ben Dogra's history in regards to draft pick holdouts?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

On a positive note.....sounds like Trent Williams wants to play football and be successful. I hope he gets signed early and I hope he can hold down the left fort. No easy task for a rookie.

I miss Joe Jocoby, I miss Jim Lachey, and I miss Chris Samuels. I hope Trent can take my three misses away.

Trent Williams has been nothing short of a bright spot in our offseason.

Posted by: Rando | July 1, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

haynesworth would never pull this bs if ST21 was on the team, by now our dude would be NFL D MVP and even fat al would get his mind right, though he wouldnt even be on the team if we had ST21, what would ST21 think of us getting TO? yea that's right, don't even think about it, TO is a bia and ST proved that, it's called ownage

Posted by: retroskins14 | July 1, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

The VJax suspension, which was expected, diminishes his value to the rest of the league, but doesn't change his value to SD for this season -- since he would miss those games by holding out.

Of course, his off field issues reduce his price tag and the amount of up front money he can get.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

yea that's right, don't even think about it, TO is a bia and ST proved that, it's called ownage

Posted by: retroskins14 | July 1, 2010 2:24 PM

Ownage, second greatest word in the English language next to d****ebag.

Ownage (n): 1. Noun form of the verb own. 2. An instance in which someone or something is owned.
Player1 frags Player2 with exceptional skill.

Player1 taunts, "I just owned you Player2!"
Player3 comments, "Yeah, that was ownage."

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Man, I take a couple of days off to prep myself for the Summer of Lebron (by ignoring all forms of media) and I come back to this crapola?

Another delinquent headcase wants to get paid so his agent throws out that the Redskinsare interested. Been there, done that. It doesn't fly anymore.

Who the fck is Vincent Jackson, anyway? Wasn't he the guy who did the spooky rap in Thriller?

2 decent seasons and he wants to be the highest paid receiver in the league? We fell for that with Albert.

Not again.

I don't think this story has legs.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 1, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe all the hand-wringing about that Ray Lewis photo, but I'm glad it's been swapped out so all the griping can stop. My perspective is skewed because I never visit the WaPo's Redskins page... I visit the Sports main page or come directly to RI.

Still... nice to see this resolved. It's the little things.

I vote in favor of going into the 2010 season with the most suspended WRs in the league. Whatever it takes. (But seriously, nothing's officially happened with Santana yet, has it?)

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 1, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I guess that V Jax can tell the Chargers that he's reducing his holdout to seven games and call it a "good faith gesture" on his part.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Once again RI has been scooped.
This from PFT via TheHogs.net:

When and if Albert Haynesworth reports to the Washington Redskins for training camp, he'll have a lot of work to do winning over his teammates -- at least according to one of those teammates, Andre Carter.

"He would have to leave the BS at the door," Carter said of Haynesworth, per TheHogs.net. "Negativity around positive and optimistic people won't work. He will need to work hard and prove himself by showing that he's trustworthy and reliable in the scheme and as a teammate."

The scheme Carter refers to is the new 3-4 defense that the new coaching staff is implementing, and it's a scheme that Carter thinks will work well with the Redskins' personnel. Haynesworth, who prefers to be a 4-3 defensive tackle, is unhappy with the shift. But Carter thinks Haynesworth needs to get over it.

"I haven't experienced a player prioritizing his position on the field over working with the game," Carter said. "It's disappointing because Albert could fit in this scheme. All we can say is we wish him the best and we will see what happens in a month. He made his statement that he didn't want to play in this scheme and we are not going to force him to play. He's a grown man. We have moved forward."

Carter says that if he and Haynesworth are going to be teammates, he hopes Haynesworth is committed to putting the team above himself.

"If he shows up he has to prove to us he is back for the organization," Carter said, "and not all about him."

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

4 weeks and counting. There's no place like camp, there's no place like camp.

Posted by: stevek20147 | July 1, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Who the fck is Vincent Jackson, anyway? Wasn't he the guy who did the spooky rap in Thriller?

Posted by: Original_etrod

Now that shti was funny!

Posted by: smittdiddy | July 1, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

If Albert really wanted to be traded to another team, his actions have actually destroyed his trade value.

If he is out of the country, like people says he is, there's no way he's in shape, nor would he be by training camp time.

It makes me wonder if he even intends to play football at all this year.

Posted by: Predator48 | July 1, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Just imagine if Snyder owned the Wizards... Wizards1 would be going from city to city right now!

Posted by: tony325 | July 1, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

This dude is looks so much like Haynesworth it's disturbing.
1. Wants to be the top paid player at his position with a lot guaranteed money
2. At best the team gets 3/4 of a season from him
3. Character issues
4. Holding out
5. He is hurting his own value with lousy decision making
6. Nobody trusts him as far as they can throw him

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | July 1, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Who the fck is Vincent Jackson, anyway?

Posted by: Original_etrod

He's been a player on my highly successful FF teams. I think he's been on all 3.

But since they erase all the FF history stuff, can't go back and check. So, I'm using my memory. Which isn't very good.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

" He will need to work hard and prove himself by showing that he's trustworthy and reliable in the scheme and as a teammate."

This is what I was tryna tell you kaas the other day.....Players are going to check him...

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 1, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Andre Carter calling out fat a$$ now.

London Fletcher calling out fat a$$.

I just can't see that loser playing here next year. The damage, as I see it, is beyond repair.

On another note, why are we even talking about Vincent Jackson.

Devin Thomas with a decent QB(McNabb) throwing to him = Vincent Jackson(without the DUI's)

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

A friend of mine came up with the following scenario for how to deal with the Fat Albert situation

Use him only on third and long and similar situations. In those cases, the defence would likely be in a nickle package with a four man front. Fat albert would get to do the only thing he wants to do, which is rush the QB and try to put up big sack numbers. He wouldnt play many downs, so he would be well rested and able to put maximum effort into his pass rush.

I personally don't like this idea. It smacks too much of just caving in to what Fat Albert wants. It creates a situation where the other players could be irritated because Fat Albert would be getting special treatment. It also sets a bad precident that you can get whatever you want just by whining loudly enough and throwing a tantrum.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

HAYNESWORTH REPORTEDLY SIGHTED IN TENNESSEE, MAY BE HEADING NORTHEAST

NASHVILLE, TN – Nashville area motorists are reporting several sightings of a specially configured armored truck that is said to be rolling up and down the interstate highways, possibly heading northeast.

According to a Tennessee State Police report, the truck -- described as a burgundy and gold Brinks security van with oversized tires and gold rims -- is being driven by some barely dressed and heavily tattooed “working girls” who keep taking their tops off for a heavy-set character sitting in the back who keeps stuffing dollar bills into their garter belts and g-strings.

Motorists with small children are being warned to beware of getting too close to the sides of the truck, because their children might be able to look through the windows and see some of the odd goings on inside the truck – which is said to resemble the “VIP lounge” of a seedy strip joint, complete with mystery-stained couches, stripper poles, champagne bottles, garish lights and loud music.

The outside of the truck is reportedly festooned with several signs, including “Wide Load” on the front and back, and “Hey-Hey Hay(nesworth),” “FU-Skins,” and “Ashburn or Bust” on the sides.

This is leading some to speculate that Washington Redskins defensive lineman Albert Haynesworth may actually be planning to attend the Redskins training camp that starts later this month in Ashburn, VA.

One report recently placed the truck at the drive through window of a McDonalds restaurant on the outskirts of Nashville, where it reportedly ordered two-dozen Angus Beef and Bacon sandwiches with extra cheese, 21 supersized orders of French fries, four-dozen apple pies, and single Diet Coke.

Said a knowledgeable source, “It sounds like Albert is really getting down to business. He would never have ordered the Diet Coke if he wasn’t serious about getting into shape for the upcoming season.”

Posted by: Vic1 | July 1, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

6. Nobody trusts him as far as they can throw him

Posted by: monkeymayonaise
I'll bet you can throw V Jax a lot farther than you can throw Fat Albert.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Vic- We saw this yesterday. It was funny the first time.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

his asking price is already too high...now he misses near a quarter of the first season? forget it. there are better ways to improve than by adding more prima donnas to the team...

Posted by: bacaje |

I dont get the prima donna label that bloggers give athletes who ask for a competitive salary in their field. When a doctor or lawyer, or actor ask for big money no one calls them prima donnas. When baseball players ask for big money they are not called that. Golfers, swimmers, Tennis players, NASCAR drivers, you name it. But NBA or NFL players ask for big money? They are prima donnas and cancers to a team if they hold out. Let me ask you, who are you to say what an elite athlete is worth? When you go for a job do you tell yourself I am not worth what the market pays for my profession? Do you say, I think I am asking too much? I dont want to seem like a prima donna?

Posted by: ged0386 | July 1, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Any thoughts?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

You don't pay a player that much money to be a 3rd down pass rush specialist. When motivated, Albert is just as stout against the run (great examples were last yrs games when he was involved in alot 3rd and 4th and short stops) as he is against the pass.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 1, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

A friend of mine came up with the following scenario for how to deal with the Fat Albert situation

Use him only on third and long and similar situations. In those cases, the defence would likely be in a nickle package with a four man front. Fat albert would get to do the only thing he wants to do, which is rush the QB and try to put up big sack numbers. He wouldnt play many downs, so he would be well rested and able to put maximum effort into his pass rush.

I personally don't like this idea. It smacks too much of just caving in to what Fat Albert wants. It creates a situation where the other players could be irritated because Fat Albert would be getting special treatment. It also sets a bad precident that you can get whatever you want just by whining loudly enough and throwing a tantrum.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: kaasmaster |

Yeah. The team should use Albert in the situations he has the most impact. Me, I'd play him the first 3 plays of a series in order to force a 3 and out. If there's no 3 and out, play him only on 3rd down, until ... the other team hits the red zone, then he's in every play.

I'd also like to see him lining up as RDE, swapping plays at the spot with Orakpo. I know its not happening, but I can't image there's a left tackle with a bag of tricks big enough to handle both of these guys.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

" He will need to work hard and prove himself by showing that he's trustworthy and reliable in the scheme and as a teammate."

This is what I was tryna tell you kaas the other day.....Players are going to check him...

Posted by: 4thFloor

Based on the evidence of his character to this point, I have a hard time beliving that Fat ALbert WOULD "work hard and prove himself by showing that he's trustworthy and reliable in the scheme and as a teammate."

None of his former teamates from Tennesee seemed suprised at Albert's actions this offseason. I heard rumblings from his Skins teamates last year about Fat Albert's lack of work ethic in practices. We would have to see effort from Albert that no one has EVER seen before.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

How about a mugshot of Haynesworth with the word, THIEF in big block letters underneath.

Posted by: Predator48


very, very, very, funny

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

But I have not seen a single quote from either one that says they are not happy with them. Yes, they are interested in VJax. That still doesn't say they arenot happy with 11 and 12.


Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Gotta read between the lines, Fritz. The fact that they are loading up on WR prospects speaks loudly of their dissatisfaction.


Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"I dont get the prima donna label that bloggers give athletes who ask for a competitive salary in their field."

--

Difference is, most of these prima donnas are already under contract and supposedly committed to play up to the best of their abilities for whatever they've agreed and signed for. Exhibit 1, see AH92.

Also haven't heard very many of the players offering to give fans and other stakeholders a rebate when they fail to live up to expectations... or deliver as advertised.

I won't claim to know the ins and outs of the collective bargaining agreement, but am given to understand that VJ decided to not to sign the team tender of $3.3 million for one season... or something approaching $400,000 per game... which is his prerogative, I guess.

So now the DUI adjudication will make him unavailable for three games... and the Chargers are apparently under no obligation to pay him, play him or trade him if he decides to sit out the rest.

Seems like he's getting is just desserts...

When we make our choices, we must also deal with the consequences of our decisions. At least that's the way it works in the real world.

Posted by: Vic1 | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Predictions:

LeBron James will be a member of the Miami Heat.

Vincent Jackson will be a Washington Redskin.

Germany will win the World Cup.

Serena Williams will win Wimbledon.

Obama will slip up and tell the Tea Party people to "Sip on these nutz...."

Moe will actually 'get some' from mrsmoe on this weekend's date nite.

Book it!!!!


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Tone it down Andre Carter, wasn't you averaging 2.5 sacks a year before Albert showed up?

Posted by: coparker5 | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I hope Shanahan can control his lust for winning it all now. That's what the VJax trade smells of. Too much money for damaged goods. Sound familiar, kiddies?

How many mistakes of this nature will it take to realize DC should not be the default port of call for every head case in the NFL?

Speaking of fine franchises--who is in the news first on the matter of NBA Free agent signings?

Why my LA Clippers.

Um, they didn't sign a guy. They already lost one. Dwight Gooden, overpaid by Milwaukee.

Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Everyone is commenting on how MS and BA are so disappointed in DT and MK

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 1:30 PM

They won"t say that publicly. They would say that they are always looking to improve the competition at every spot. However, the moves they've made indicates that they are less than pleased with the way the WR group has functioned thus far. Yes, they can roll with the current group and hope the either Thomas or Kelly steps up, but it sure looks like that is not their preferred course of action.

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse
I understand that, TWISI. My point is that everyone on the blog is accepting it as fact that MS is not happy with 11/12, and is ready to release MK and trade DT. But what we are really doing is reading tea leaves. MS and BA are professionals, and they will persue anyone that is an upgrade. Would VJax be an upgrade...sure. But I don't think he is that much of an upgrade that we part with a 2nd rd pick. I may eat crow on that, but that's my position.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Tone it down Andre Carter, wasn't you averaging 2.5 sacks a year before Albert showed up?

Posted by: coparker5 | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM |

Congratulations! You just won the Portis-Perry "English as a Second Language" scholarship to Strayer University.

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

who else here hates jason la confor, from nflnetwork.. he's so anti skins.

jason reid kinda resembles albert?

what do u guys think?

Posted by: manitzdaman | July 1, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Let me ask you, who are you to say what an elite athlete is worth? When you go for a job do you tell yourself I am not worth what the market pays for my profession? Do you say, I think I am asking too much? I dont want to seem like a prima donna?

Posted by: ged0386 | July 1, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse


The problem is that Jackson is not asking for market value. He wants to be the highest paid reciever in the game when his production to this point doesn't warrant it.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 1, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I know you can't be him. Blagojevich doesn't know how to use a computer.

Posted by: kaasmaster |


Yeah, but don't challenge him to a Blowdryer contest.

Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know Ben Dogra's history in regards to draft pick holdouts?


Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse
He got BOrak into camp on day 2 of training camp last year.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

The VJax suspension, which was expected, diminishes his value to the rest of the league, but doesn't change his value to SD for this season -- since he would miss those games by holding out.

Of course, his off field issues reduce his price tag and the amount of up front money he can get.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse
I don't think that is accurate, zce. His 3 game suspension won't start until he is on the active roster.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse


Tone it down Andre Carter, wasn't you averaging 2.5 sacks a year before Albert showed up?

Posted by: coparker5 | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM |

Congratulations! You just won the Portis-Perry "English as a Second Language" scholarship to Strayer University.

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Bahahahahaha

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I know you can't be him. Blagojevich doesn't know how to use a computer.

Posted by: kaasmaster |


Yeah, but don't challenge him to a Blowdryer contest.

Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 3:57 PM |


The man resembles a 45 year old Cabbage-Patch-Kid.

I wonder if he is weighing in on the Chicago efforts to snare LeBron James.

If he were able to swindle anything out of Reinsdorf, that would be the end of "World Wide Wes" and the advent of "Brokered by Blago".

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

He got BOrak into camp on day 2 of training camp last year.

Posted by: frediefritz
Duh, I kinda figured that one out by reading the RI article at the top of this blog. How about other players he has represented?

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 3:54 PM

There is a lot of faith being put into two guys who have shown that they can't beat single coverage, let alone double coverage, on a consistent basis. These guys are going to have to unlearn what they have been taught over the previous two years. Not sure DT is dedicated enough, not sure MK is skilled enough to pull it off. Hopefully both these guys wake up, my feeling is that DT is closer than MK.

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

what they have been taught over the previous two years

which was what exactly?? When you run the same 7-8 patterns over and over, which we learned was all the JZ offense was, how were they supposed to succeed??

DT is the faster player, but who got sent on the fly patterns?? That would be the bigger slower possession receiver, MK. They would routinely throw fades to Moss/ARE in the end zone, despite bigger players in MK/DT.

I mean, sitting Fred Davis for a year and a half proved to be prudent didn't it....oh wait...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 1, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I don't think that is accurate, zce. His 3 game suspension won't start until he is on the active roster.

Posted by: frediefritz

not sure how it plays out. Does he need to arrive 3 weeks before week 10 which is when he needs to be part of the team to accrue his tenure? Don't know. Or can he show up in week 10, serve the suspension then and still get credit for playing the season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

his asking price is already too high...now he misses near a quarter of the first season? forget it. there are better ways to improve than by adding more prima donnas to the team...

Posted by: bacaje | July 1, 2010 1:29 PM

I'm not sure where you learned math but 3 games does equal a quarter of a 16 game season. Also as far as the prima donna comment...because he asked for a better contract, he is a prima donna??? You should be more concerned with the second DUI conviction.

Posted by: gre28man72 | July 1, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't think that is accurate, zce. His 3 game suspension won't start until he is on the active roster.

Posted by: frediefritz

not sure how it plays out. Does he need to arrive 3 weeks before week 10 which is when he needs to be part of the team to accrue his tenure? Don't know. Or can he show up in week 10, serve the suspension then and still get credit for playing the season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 1, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Not sure, but I think the latter. I don't think there is a minimum # of games active. I think he just has to be on team , and having passed his physical, by game #10.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 1, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

what they have been taught over the previous two years

which was what exactly?? When you run the same 7-8 patterns over and over, which we learned was all the JZ offense was, how were they supposed to succeed??

DT is the faster player, but who got sent on the fly patterns?? That would be the bigger slower possession receiver, MK. They would routinely throw fades to Moss/ARE in the end zone, despite bigger players in MK/DT.

I mean, sitting Fred Davis for a year and a half proved to be prudent didn't it....oh wait...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 1, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

This is spot on.

This is also why I hate Jim Zorn.

It's like having a muscle car, but a 90 year old woman behind the wheel. You're just not getting the most out of what you got.

Now that Richard Petty is behind the wheel, let's see what happens.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

This is spot on.

This is also why I hate Jim Zorn.

It's like having a muscle car, but a 90 year old woman behind the wheel. You're just not getting the most out of what you got.

Now that Richard Petty is behind the wheel, let's see what happens.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 4:39 PM |

Isn't King Richard like 90 himself?

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1 wake up dude. The Shanahans aren't looking for WR help if DT and MK didn't have issues. MK still can't separate. He still working on "coming out of my breaks". Maybe he struggles because of the techniques he was taught the past two years, or maybe his knee issues have robbed him of the explosiveness needed. Maybe a little of both. DT has had issues learning a simplified offense by your acknowledgment. He's battle hamstring issues again this offseason and is playing catch up. Maybe he'll put in the work and get caught up, but I've seen enough of DT on magazine cover(s) and in music video(s) that red flags are starting to go off in my mind about his dedication. At this point it should be all football for him IMO.

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Isn't King Richard like 90 himself?

Posted by: No_Punt_Intended | July 1, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse
Yeah, but I'm sure he can still drive the heck out of a car.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

This is spot on.

This is also why I hate Jim Zorn.

It's like having a muscle car, but a 90 year old woman behind the wheel. You're just not getting the most out of what you got.

Now that Richard Petty is behind the wheel, let's see what happens.


Posted by: iH8dallas | July 1, 2010 4:39 PM

Muscle car? The offense has virtually been blown up since last year. O-line revamped, a trio of new RBs, a different QB, and 20 WRs. I don't think the new management liked the old car.

Posted by: Alan4 | July 1, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

The 2009 Corvair.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The question is how will the 2010 model perform?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

The question is how will the 2010 model perform?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/06/29/offseason-contract-disputes-stir-echoes-of-1985

Interesting article about a lot of big name players that held out in 1985 due to contract issues. Its been happening forever, yet I don't ever hear about Marino or Dorsett being a malcontent and cancer to the team, lol.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 1, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

caps off:

the pointer sisters are real biitches.

CAPS ON:

The Pointer sisters are a swello R&B act from Oak that was popular in the 70's and 80's.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Um, they didn't sign a guy. They already lost one. Dwight Gooden, overpaid by Milwaukee.

Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 3:52 PM |

I thought that this was a MistaMoe post until I looked at the time stamp. It's Drew Gooden you doosh. Dwight was the lost boy who had a few good years with the Mets back in the day.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

The question is how will the 2010 model perform?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 5:23 PM |

The question is how will the 2010 model perform?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 5:29 PM |

What is the question, again please?

Signed,

_Shtupped_

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

ElDra

You killed the blog.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 1, 2010 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Its been happening forever, yet I don't ever hear about Marino or Dorsett being a malcontent and cancer to the team, lol.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 1, 2010 5:29 PM


Exactly...which is why it's nothing short of lunacy to compare VJ to AH. There's nothing new or disruptive about holding out for more money when your performance warrants it. It's the nimrods like AH that holdout AFTER they've gotten their money that need to go...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 1, 2010 6:30 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is this; Both, Hanesworth and Jackson need a change of scenery. Both, would help any team they are traded to. Both have off the field issues. Haneworth is overpaid, Jackson wants to be. Danny has the money and wants a winner. (Danny is ok with me, he wants to win more than anyone on this web site.)Make the trade.

Posted by: elderdave1 | July 1, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

understand that, TWISI. My point is that everyone on the blog is accepting it as fact that MS is not happy with 11/12, and is ready to release MK and trade DT. But what we are really doing is reading tea leaves. MS and BA are professionals, and they will persue anyone that is an upgrade. Would VJax be an upgrade...sure. But I don't think he is that much of an upgrade that we part with a 2nd rd pick. I may eat crow on that, but that's my position.

Posted by: frediefritz

Have not seen anyone say that DT should be traded or that MK should be cut. There is plenty of speculation that this is a make or break year for them. It is also clear that Shanny is not happy with what he sees from them. If he was confident that one of them was going to take the next step they would not be talking about trading for the high priced head ache that is Vincent Jackson.

If they trade for VJ it is a sign that despite the changes things remain the same.

Good teams do not ignore the draft and if they trade for VJ that is essentially what they are doing.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 1, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

"But I don't think he (V Jax) is that much of an upgrade that we part with a 2nd rd pick."


If you're rebuilding--and we are--you must do what you can to retain draft picks.

We've shed picks for J Brown and D McNabb--and that should be about it.

So if we make a move for V Jax, it's got to be a switch of players, not picks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"which was what exactly?? When you run the same 7-8 patterns over and over, which we learned was all the JZ offense was, how were they supposed to succeed??"

A lot of offensive schemes do just that. The whole idea is deception. Simple plays disguised as complex ones, with different men in motion -- it's a very effective strategy.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 1, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

eldranhoe

"I thought that this was a MistaMoe post until I looked at the time stamp. It's Drew Gooden you doosh. Dwight was the lost boy who had a few good years with the Mets back in the day."

The baseball fan in me knows who Dwight Gooden is.

I even remember watching the no-hitter he throw as a Yankee--it was against the Mariners, Joe Girardi caught it.

He would have been a HOF but for his drug and legal issues.

Thing is, he made his mistakes because he was an addict.

What's your excuse?


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

http://blog.redskins.com/2010/07/01/the-devin-thomas-fantasia-thing-continues/

I guess working out w/ DMac in AZ is too much to ask.

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/7/1/1546927/based-on-redskins-2009-dl-pressure

This post suggest that Haynesworth was not as big a catalyst to the increased sack production from the 2009 Skins

Posted by: TWISI | July 1, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

twisi

"I guess working out w/ DMac in AZ is too much to ask (of D Thomas)."


There are a lot of black women who are crazy about Devin Thomas' looks.

He might fail at football and make a career in acting/media.

He's that popular.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Twisi-

Nice link. I was going to post that but didn't think it would help those that are football illiterate (pabrian, coparker5, to name a few) understand the great seasons that 98 & 99 had without giving all the credit to 92.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 1, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Nice post Twisi. Another nail in the oversized, steel reinforced coffin.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Don Coryell just passed away. What an innovator. The game of football has just lost a genius. Rest in Peace Don and my condolences to the family.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

I even remember watching the no-hitter he throw as a Yankee--it was against the Mariners, Joe Girardi caught it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 8:37 PM |

Good verb tense there dud. I guess you Special Ed types study your grammar under the tutelage of Professor Port-o-let. Heh, heh.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Well, Drano has just lowered himself to one of the lowest levels of dooshbaggery...grammar cop. Nothing spells winner like like the English police. You've got nowhere to go but up now Drano.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

We should definitely get Vincent Jackson, pay him a record setting contract, and then switch to a run only offense.

hi-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Posted by: pabrian2003 | June 30, 2010 10:56 PM

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 1, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Twisi-

Nice link. I was going to post that but didn't think it would help those that are football illiterate (pabrian, coparker5, to name a few) understand the great seasons that 98 & 99 had without giving all the credit to 92.


Posted by: Diesel44


don't you know that hear from what you see not from what you hear! The film doesn't lie, have you been watching the NFL for the last 5 years or just running your big mouth???

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 1, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Moe will actually 'get some' from mrsmoe on this weekend's date nite.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 1, 2010 3:49 PM |

You should be good to go with her, dud. She came over yesterday and I cleaned her pipes out. She was so grateful she licked my popsickle.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

I thought that this was a MistaMoe post until I looked at the time stamp. It's Drew Gooden you doosh. Dwight was the lost boy who had a few good years with the Mets back in the day.

Posted by: ElDrano |

Me, a Doosh? Look, Yuckaputz, YOU try rooting for Dan Snyder and Donald Sterling owned teams for a while, and see how your focus is. Fact is I was so tore up my the loss of this middle of the road player, kicking off the FA period, I confused him with Dwight. Have mercy.

Posted by: TheCork | July 1, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

articles that try to convince fans that good players aren't good and that cruddy players will be good = washington post

haynesworth portis = not good

mike williams whatever 100 year old D lineman = the greatest

I wish it were true, but I live on earth in a reality based existence

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 1, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

football illiterate, on queue

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 1, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Well, Drano has just lowered himself to one of the lowest levels of dooshbaggery...grammar cop. Nothing spells winner like like the English police. You've got nowhere to go but up now Drano.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:06 PM |

You seem to be blind to the difference between intentional and unintentional use of "poor" grammar.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Well, Drano has just lowered himself to one of the lowest levels of dooshbaggery...grammar cop. Nothing spells winner like like the English police. You've got nowhere to go but up now Drano.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:06 PM |

You seem to be blind to the difference between intentional and unintentional use of "poor" grammar.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 10:17 PM |

You seem to think it's cool to play grammar cop on a blog. Nothing says' "I got nuthin'" like playin' grammar cop on a blog.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Nothing says' "I got nuthin'" like playin' grammar cop on a blog.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:21 PM

Responding to trolls comes pretty close.

Posted by: greenback | July 1, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Nothing says' "I got nuthin'" like playin' grammar cop on a blog.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:21 PM

Responding to trolls comes pretty close.

Posted by: greenback | July 1, 2010 10:31 PM |

Hey, have mercy on him. He's doing the best he can.

Posted by: ElDrano | July 1, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Nothing says' "I got nuthin'" like playin' grammar cop on a blog.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:21 PM

Responding to trolls comes pretty close.

Posted by: greenback | July 1, 2010 10:31 PM |

Good point.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

the redskins should only get vjax if he comes at a santonio holmes price. since he has a similar suspension, that may be possible.

Posted by: nfcBEaST | July 1, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: nfcBEaST | July 1, 2010 10:44 PM

He would be here if that was the case. The problem is that AJ Smith is asking for 2 2nds or a 1st and V Jack wants Brandon Marshall money w/o the production.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 1, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Don Coryell just passed away. What an innovator. The game of football has just lost a genius. Rest in Peace Don and my condolences to the family.

Posted by: scampbell1975

That was a hell of an offense. There were a lot of black women who were crazy about Don Coryell's looks too. He never let it go to his head, so give Devin Thomas the same benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 1, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

That was a hell of an offense. There were a lot of black women who were crazy about Don Coryell's looks too. He never let it go to his head, so give Devin Thomas the same benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 1, 2010 10:56 PM |

Uh...what?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 10:59 PM | Report abuse

I love the guy...BUT

Didn't Riggins hold out?

Posted by: rickyroge | July 1, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

rr- What's your point?

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 1, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I think both V Jax and A.J. Smith need to wake up and look at what's happening around the league this offseason. Nobody is signing players to fat long term contracts this year. Nobody is giving up top draft picks to acquire players. They both need to lower their expectations to reasonable levels or no deal will get done with anybody.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 1, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

That was a hell of an offense. There were a lot of black women who were crazy about Don Coryell's looks too. He never let it go to his head, so give Devin Thomas the same benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 1, 2010 10:56 PM |

Uh...what?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010

Poor attempt at absurdist comedy. But PFT is reporting that Coryell threw a helluva party.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 1, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Gotcha

Posted by: scampbell1975 | July 1, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Nerves. Holland - Brazil when it counts is galactically recognized as the best soccer game in the world.

And it never ends well.

It's like a Super Bowl tomorrow.

If you don't like soccer, you got nothing.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 1, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Joe Gibbs learned a lot working for Don Coryell and with his Air Coryell offense. A sad day, indeed.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2010 12:47 AM | Report abuse

time check

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2010 1:20 AM | Report abuse

So for those concerned about the improvement in the 2010 version of the skins from an abysmal 2009.

Madden 2011 has the Redskins as the most improved team with a +6 overall improvement up from a 70 last year. The second best overall improvement was a +3 for the Hawks and Chiefs. They're still ranked 21st with the Saints as the best team with a 92 overall ranking.

The Cards had the biggest drop (as expected) with a -8 down to a 79.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/7/1/1547156/washington-redskins-madden-ratings#storyjump

RIP Don Coryell

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Don Coryell just passed away. What an innovator. The game of football has just lost a genius. Rest in Peace Don and my condolences to the family.

Posted by: scampbell1975

Loved watching Air Coryell. To me, that is as good as football gets. That's why I loved Gibbs and the Skins during the high-flying times.

POWER UP THE MIDDLE.
SPEED AT THE WINGS.

RUN UP A SCORE - THEN POUND THEM INTO THE DIRT!

The glory.

Hail!

Posted by: edvar | July 2, 2010 1:28 AM | Report abuse

NFC East Rankings (according to Madden 2011)
Dallass- 87 (-1)
Ginas- 81 (NC)
Eggles- 80 (-6)
Skins- 76 (+6)

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:29 AM | Report abuse

From Hogs Haven

Total Pressures by #98 & #99 (Sk, Ht or Hr) = 108

Times Haynesworth on field = 57

Times Haynesworth not on field =51

Of the 57 times he was on the field, the vast majority of the time (43 times) he was playing DRT. Therefore, from looking at the 108 positive instances of Orakpo and Carter pressure I found a maximum of 5 where Haynesworth may have had some impact over and above what may be expected from a standard DT.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:31 AM | Report abuse

Of the 57 times he was on the field, the vast majority of the time (43 times) he was playing DRT. Therefore, from looking at the 108 positive instances of Orakpo and Carter pressure I found a maximum of 5 where Haynesworth may have had some impact over and above what may be expected from a standard DT.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:31 AM

Dude, thank you for posting this...it gives concrete backup to what I've been saying to AH apologists all offseason: WE DON'T NEED AH TO BE A GOOD DEFENSE. Especially with a switch to a 3-4.

R.I.P. to Don Coryell...Joe Gibbs was one of his many disciples and we indirectly have Coryell to thank for those 3 Lombardis we have at Redskins Park. Much respect to DC and condolences to his family.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 5:16 AM | Report abuse

Awful quite up here so I’ll think out loud. Let’s see…Hmmm, WR group is still a work in progress. Who was invited to Phoenix to workout with MacNabb? The team hasn’t shed itself of the AH92 problem…yet. Guess that’s a work in progress also.
I’ll bet CR22 and RM52 are watching the VJax saga. Glad they didn’t take the same route. However, I would like to see VJax in burgundy and gold. I’m liking the Moss, Jackson, and Thomas look. Hope it works out and on the cheap too.

Posted by: camp_fodder | July 2, 2010 6:42 AM | Report abuse

However, I would like to see VJax in burgundy and gold. I’m liking the Moss, Jackson, and Thomas look. Hope it works out and on the cheap too.


Posted by: camp_fodder | July 2, 2010 6:42 AM

I think that's part of why so many up here don't want VJ...because it won't happen on the cheap. He wants money. That's it. That's his gripe. And he's not gonna be happy until he gets it.

I'm still hoping that Devin Thomas ends up playing well but I still think taking a flier on TO for one year "show me" contract is a good insurance policy.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 6:46 AM | Report abuse

Please, please, please. Invite Mr. Leonsis to Redskins Park. Let him speak about the right way to build a team. How to treasure draft picks and not give them away. How to get rid of the bad apples and build from within. Don't say anything. JUST LISTEN.

Posted by: jburnetti | July 2, 2010 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Please, please, please. Invite Mr. Leonsis to Redskins Park. Let him speak about the right way to build a team. How to treasure draft picks and not give them away. How to get rid of the bad apples and build from within. Don't say anything. JUST LISTEN.

Posted by: jburnetti | July 2, 2010 6:50 AM

That speech will be so much greater if he can explain the ins and outs of how he got rid of Gilbert Arenas. I don't wanna hear a word from him until he's got a story for how that becomes a reality...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

the redskins should only get vjax if he comes at a santonio holmes price. since he has a similar suspension, that may be possible.

Posted by: nfcBEaST | July 1, 2010 10:44 PM |

Doubt if that will happen. The Steelers were making a point about not tolerating bad apples when they fire-saled Holmes. I bet they are having some misgivings now though with Limeass Sweet out for the year. Roeth is going to be taking his lumps this year - suspendered for at least 4 games, his best receiver gone, his back-up out for the year. Similar, if SD off-loads Jackson, who does Phil Rivers throw to? Gates can't shoulder the whole load.

Posted by: MrRed | July 2, 2010 7:38 AM | Report abuse

That speech will be so much greater if he can explain the ins and outs of how he got rid of Gilbert Arenas. I don't wanna hear a word from him until he's got a story for how that becomes a reality...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 7:14 AM |

He isn't the only bad apple. Street Meat Blache has to go too.

Posted by: MrRed | July 2, 2010 7:42 AM | Report abuse


Mark my words people, SAME OLD.

Posted by: hessone | July 2, 2010 7:42 AM | Report abuse

They've been marked, hessone. Move on.

MrRed, the only reason Blatche probably won't go anywhere is because the Wiz are in dire need of help at center and it's hard to get a good big man. Unless they get another lopsided Caron Butler/Kwame Brown deal, I can't see them dumping him.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

They're still ranked 21st with the Saints as the best team with a 92 overall ranking.

The Cards had the biggest drop (as expected) with a -8 down to a 79.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/7/1/1547156/washington-redskins-madden-ratings#storyjump

RIP Don Coryell


Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:24 AM

Am I just too blindly loyal, or is the suggestion that the Skins are going to be no better than the 21st best team in the NFL crazy?

Posted by: MColeman51 | July 2, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

However, I would like to see VJax in burgundy and gold. I’m liking the Moss, Jackson, and Thomas look. Hope it works out and on the cheap too.


Posted by: camp_fodder | July 2, 2010 6:42 AM


I think that's part of why so many up here don't want VJ...because it won't happen on the cheap. He wants money. That's it. That's his gripe. And he's not gonna be happy until he gets it.

I'm still hoping that Devin Thomas ends up playing well but I still think taking a flier on TO for one year "show me" contract is a good insurance policy.

Posted by: brownwood26

Brown, I started off thinking the skins should pull the trigger on this deal. But the more I learn about VJax, the more I'm thinking he's just another Albert Haynesworth sans the girth.

Pass.

Posted by: Predator48 | July 2, 2010 8:04 AM | Report abuse

I bet they are having some misgivings now though with Limeass Sweet out for the year.

Posted by: MrRed | July 2, 2010 7:38 AM

Limas Sweed...what a waste of a pick. It seems the way to go in that draft was with the smaller WRs.

Here's the issue the Skins are facing and why DT and MK have to step up this year. Every offensive position has been upgraded from last year, save the WR. The sae doubt that loomed over the cloud at this position exists today. Moreover, at the end of 2010 Moss' contract automatically voids, making him a UFA. He's the best WR on the team, and if he re-signs with the Skins he'll want to be paid accordingly. He'll also be 32 years old speed WR. Will the Skins want to pay him the $$? AT the very latest, 2011 will be the year of DT and MK, and both will be entering the final year of their rookie contracts. Then there is the potential lockout in 2011. As it stands right now, when looking at a 2-3 year window, the WR position is the most unsettled on the team.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 8:12 AM | Report abuse

There is more than one way to build a team...

Some say through the draft...
Other teams are more aggresive in free agency...

The problem with the Redskins has been too much inconsistency at the coaching and managment level. Gibbs was NEVER a personnel guys, and yet he gave away draft picks like water. Cerrato overvalued and overpaid.

Now...we seem as if we are trying to exercise some fiscal responsibility. I have no problems with any of the moves the Skins have made. McNabb is a bordeline Hall of Famer, and is better than Jason Campbell. I would like the Skins to see what they really have at receiver, but Vincent Jackson at the right price is intriguing. He's better than anyone we have on our roster.

Ken Beatrice used to say "Never trade an 'is' for a 'will be'"

Posted by: rickyroge | July 2, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Good point TWISI...

I think Skins fans get scared to be aggressive at skilled positions since we've been burned so many times. I like Devin Thomas...I think Davis is the real deal...and I think I've begun to form the "B" in BUST.

Posted by: rickyroge | July 2, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

RE: Vincent Jackson. Two DUI's should be a major red flag. Smart people, and those in control of the situation, are scared straight after the first one. I wouldn't want to pay A.J. Smith's asking price for someone with question marks about either, or both, of those two criteria.

Posted by: MColeman51 | July 2, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

"Am I just too blindly loyal, or is the suggestion that the Skins are going to be no better than the 21st best team in the NFL crazy?Posted by: MColeman51"

If the season was played on Madden, you'd be in deep yogurt. Fortunately these guys still have to go out and knock each other in the head once a week.

Don't forget the NFC East is in a state of flux. It's not just Washington. Dallas is the only club that didn't undergo significant change. It's not unlikely that the Jints, Philly, and the Skins will struggle for extended periods this coming season. Maybe one will start off slow, and another will slump later on, the way Denver did last year. The Cowboys look great on paper but are clearly vulnerable on the o-line. Who knows how Tony Romo will play in big games?

And these guys all play one another twice.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Am I just too blindly loyal, or is the suggestion that the Skins are going to be no better than the 21st best team in the NFL crazy?

Posted by: MColeman51

Too blindly loyal. Assuming that a team is going to implement new schemes a new starting Qb and have success in a tough NFC east is a bit wishful thinking. That does not even take into account that the scheme on defense does not match up with personnel. The Dline gets significantly weaker without a somewhat motivated fat al. The Oline has 1 declining player in Rabach and two guys that should never be starters in Williams and Hicks. A rookie LT who has to face some of the best pass rushers in the NFL. Don't care how good he is going to be but there is an adjustment period. Oh yeah and the other Tackle missed the entire last year with an injury. Oh did I mention that the wide receivers are amongst the weakest in the league. Maybe DT steps up but it is hardly a foregone conclusion.

Yes they could catch lightning in a bottle and make the playoffs but everything would have to go right. There would have to be no injuries as the depth is paper thin from years of neglecting the draft. Oh yeah and they need to resolve the fat al situation which will be a distraction during the camp.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 2, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Brown, I started off thinking the skins should pull the trigger on this deal. But the more I learn about VJax, the more I'm thinking he's just another Albert Haynesworth sans the girth.

Pass.

Posted by: Predator48 | July 2, 2010 8:04 AM


I did the same thing...the more I think about this trade, the less I want it to happen. I'd rather either roll with the guys we've got or get TO for a year at a discount rate. Unless Megatron goes on the block, there is no other option worth looking at.

MColeman, you're right...the Skins aren't the 21st team in the league. The only way that happens is if the defense plays waaay worse than expected, McNabb really is done, and/or we get hit with a ton of injuries. 8-8 doesn't equal 21st best, it's more like 17th or 18th.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Here's something to kick around on a slow day...from PFT:


McNabb extension delay could be tied to Manning, Brady deals
Posted by Mike Florio on July 2, 2010 7:50 AM ET
When the Redskins traded for quarterback Donovan McNabb in early April, many assumed that he'd soon have a new long-term deal with his new team.

Nearly three months later, there has been no evidence of any progress.

Chris Russell of 106.7 The Fan in D.C. reports that, currently, no talks are occurring. The lack of progress, per Russell, comes from the uncertain status of Colts quarterback Peyton Manning and Patriots quarterback Tom Brady. Like McNabb, Manning and Brady have one year left on their contracts. Both Manning and Brady could be in line for deals that set a new bar for the quarterback market.

Though McNabb isn't at their same level, the extent to which they raise the ceiling on quarterback deals will trickle down to the second tier, and so on.

If the Redskins want to wait, it's likely coming from the fact that McNabb has asked for too much in preliminary discussions. If McNabb wants to wait, it's likely coming from the fact that the Redskins have offered too little.

Either way, delay introduces potentially significant risk into the equation, for both sides. If McNabb has a big year, his leverage goes up. If he struggles, his leverage drops.

Regardless of how it all plays out, the chance of a one-and-done career in D.C. for McNabb will persist until he signs a new contract.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't know about y'all, but if McNabb has a year like Brad Johnson had here in '99, I'll be glad to see the Skins pay him whatever the hell he wants...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse


@brownwood26

No offense brown, but your same old is old. Maybe you should get a job and give the board a break. Quite critizing every single comment someone else has. Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but you're stale dude. Your life must be boring to stay on this board almost 24/7. Get a life. Happy 4th of July!

Posted by: hessone | July 2, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

WOW, pot this is kettle....talk about 'not getting it', congrats Hess, you're more of an idiot that previously thought.

go whine somewhere else would you please...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

'cause Beatrice has all those rings...

yeah. Hershel Walker trade was a big mistake....

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 2, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Some "fans" offer a million reasons why the Skins will suck this year...

BUT will give the Eagles, Cowboys and Giants the benefit of the doubt. All teams have question marks at this time. How the hell one could definitely say the Eagles will be good with a new QB who started two games last season?

Posted by: rickyroge | July 2, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: hessone | July 2, 2010 8:30 AM

Out of bounds. It's a forum for debate and discussion. Get's old if there is no disagreement. "Every single comment"? Hardly. Seems like his posts are well thought out and informative.

I just discovered RI a couple of months ago. I love it. The one thing that has surprised me about it is how some guys are so eager to insult and get personal. We're all Skins fans, right? Can't we save the insults for the Bovine Cartel and their ocean of dumba$$ fans? Besides, aren't "no offense" and "get a life" mutually exclusive?

Posted by: MColeman51 | July 2, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

WOW, pot this is kettle....talk about 'not getting it', congrats Hess, you're more of an idiot that previously thought.

go whine somewhere else would you please...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

WOW, BEAN see nothing's changed. Go whine somewhere else please.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Getting VJ could be great... but they're not going to. Allen has already shown he won't be making ridiculous deals. They'll pay, but only for value.

RE McNabb's extension (he wan't corn-rows?!): Isn't it all contingent upon the CBA? That seems to be the prevailing logic for all contracts right now.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 2, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

I think Vince Jackson is the sort of player you go after if you're thinking about a possible Super Bowl run this coming season, the way Miami was with Marshall. Jackson's a much bigger risk for a team that might be lucky to go 8-8. If Dallas hadn't signed Dez Bryant, they'd probably be looking at him hard.

Vince is at odds with SD management, so the price might not be exorbitant. Until you got him, that is. Then the trouble starts. If he becomes a major distraction, that could tip your season in the wrong direction.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Hess, pretty funny that the one guy who actually DOES post the same thing ALL the time is the one telling me to change it up. It's almost as if you still adhere to the grade school game "opposites day" or something...

Tip of the cap to MColeman...we're all here to talk Skins, most up here don't live in the DC area and actually NEED this blog to be able to talk Skins with other Skins fans. Every once in a while you get clowns like hessone who come up here to spew hate and brow-beat the Skins fans who DARE have a little bit of optimism over the team. For shame...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

gl have a clue chief, first I'm not the one whining, 2nd, hess is up here EVERY post with the same old same old, he should maybe try and mix it up every now and again....

try and follow along....or ask someone to explain stuff to you when you don't get it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

WOW, pot this is kettle....talk about 'not getting it', congrats Hess, you're more of an idiot that previously thought.

go whine somewhere else would you please...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Got to disagree with you, beanie. We've known all along what an idiot hess is.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Isn't it all contingent upon the CBA? That seems to be the prevailing logic for all contracts right now.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 2, 2010 8:46 AM


Exactly why I'm not worried about it...most teams aren't extending many players because nobody has any idea what the salary structure is going to be after this season. Teams are best served by waiting to see what happens and THEN start re-signing all their stars.

A deal with McNabb will get done. It's just a matter of when.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"...the end of 2010 Moss' contract automatically voids, making him a UFA. He's the best WR on the team, and if he re-signs with the Skins he'll want to be paid accordingly. He'll also be 32 years old speed WR."

And nobody pays 32 year old smallish, speed receivers what they think they are worth.

The end of Moss' tenure with the team takes us right back to where the wide receiver position was when he came here: unsettled and unsatisfying.

And now, Kyle Shanahan's passing system--one of the best in Houston--depends on a stud receiver who draws attention, and not adding a guy like V Jax means Moss must be that guy.

Can he be?

I say, "No."

Big corners are Moss' vice.

It's a lot to expect Moss in his contract season to get on the same page with McNabb that he couldn't get on with Campbell after four.

Teams will continue to roll coverages Moss' way until some other threat develops.

And where that threat will come from is anybody's guess.

The skins have been snake bit at the receiver position for some time, and you have to hope the team's investment in Kelly, Thomas, and Davis pays dividends this Fall.

Or: you hope the team pulls a trigger, adds V Jax, and finds keepers in Austin, Thomas, Armstrong, and Banks, and the redskin passing offense changes.

But cynical folks in Washington already know, hope is the last thing to expect great change to come from.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I'm witcha, Brownie.

Moss's gotta see the writing on the wall, doesn't he? NFL thot he was over valued when we picked him up... why should he think that'd changed.

TO would be a huge mistake in my mind, but if the FO thinks otherwise, hey - it's their rope....

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 2, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Watching NFL Total Access and Brian Baldinger makes a good point (I know...weird) about Vincent Jackson...a few years ago Jared Allen was in almost the exact same position. Had a couple DUIs, wanted more money, faced suspension his first couple games in his new city. Right now he's one of the game's elite pass rushers and plays on one of the best D-lines in football.

I'm still not a fan of giving up any more picks, but if there's an opening to pull that 3 way deal with Seattle and SD everyone's been talking about, that example makes me feel a bit better about Jackson wearing burgundy and gold.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

How the hell one could definitely say the Eagles will be good with a new QB who started two games last season?

Posted by: rickyroge | July 2, 2010 8:42 AM

Unless you attribute the bulk of their 11-5 record to McNabb, this is a stable team. They had 9 pro-bowlers last year, and lost 1 (33 year old McNabb) in exchange for drafting likely rookie starter, safety Nate Allen. Their 24 year old QB has 3 years of experience in the same system behind McNabb, a 88.9 QB rating last year over 4 games, and threw for over 300 yards in both of his career starts.

Same coach for a dozen years... same team, with a few older veterans purged... that's stability.

The Iggles flamed out at the end of last year, but there's no rational reason for thinking the Iggles will be a weak team.

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

There is more than one way to build a team...

Some say through the draft...
Other teams are more aggresive in free agency...

The problem with the Redskins has been too much inconsistency at the coaching and managment level. Gibbs was NEVER a personnel guys, and yet he gave away draft picks like water. Cerrato overvalued and overpaid.

Now...we seem as if we are trying to exercise some fiscal responsibility. I have no problems with any of the moves the Skins have made. McNabb is a bordeline Hall of Famer, and is better than Jason Campbell. I would like the Skins to see what they really have at receiver, but Vincent Jackson at the right price is intriguing. He's better than anyone we have on our roster.

Ken Beatrice used to say "Never trade an 'is' for a 'will be'"

Posted by: rickyroge

What teams have built a successful team through free agency?
Not being a smart a$$ but just cant think of any. Eagles, Chargers, Saints, Colts, Pats, Steelers and Ravens have all built their teams using the draft. The good teams will sign a key free agent here and there but fill out most of their roster through the draft.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 2, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Some "fans" offer a million reasons why the Skins will suck this year...

BUT will give the Eagles, Cowboys and Giants the benefit of the doubt. All teams have question marks at this time. How the hell one could definitely say the Eagles will be good with a new QB who started two games last season?

Posted by: rickyroge
Redskins are coming off a 4-12 season. Some people are realistic and expect it to take a few years for the new regime to right the ship. Expecting them to improve to 7-9 or at best 8-8 is not saying that they suck.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 2, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: hessone | July 2, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

You, Mr. "Dan Snyder sucks and Redskins' management will never change," are criticizing someone else for being negative?? Dude, please . . .

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 2, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

What teams have built a successful team through free agency?
Not being a smart a$$ but just cant think of any. Eagles, Chargers, Saints, Colts, Pats, Steelers and Ravens have all built their teams using the draft. The good teams will sign a key free agent here and there but fill out most of their roster through the draft.


Posted by: srobert1117 | July 2, 2010 9:28 AM


A lot of people overlook how the Ravens won their SB...they got two HoFers (Rod Woodson and Shannon Sharpe) in FA that year. I'd say they don't win jack sh*t that year if those guys aren't wearing purple.

Yeah, they draft well...everywhere except for QB and WR, that is.

The Pats routinely take old guys that other teams discard and insert them in their lineup with positive results. Think Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, and Rodney Harrison.

It's about using both the draft and free agency efficiently. The only way you do that is by picking the right guys. Ultimately, it doesn't matter HOW you get the right guys...just get the RIGHT guys.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

This is a very interesting article. I'll give you the teaser, but it's a worthwhile read to click the link.

By Tony Moss, Sports Network
The Sports Network


Two years ago, a NFL team coming off a 4-12 season made banner headlines by dealing for a highly-decorated veteran quarterback who was expected to return that franchise to glory.

The same team beefed up the offensive line that would be protecting the new QB, and also radically altered the look of its defense as part of a large-scale organizational shift.

And Brett Favre, offensive linemen Alan Faneca and Damien Woody, and defenders Kris Jenkins and Calvin Pace very nearly led that team, the 2008 New York Jets, to its targeted plateau. The record reflects that the Jets experienced a five- game improvement to 9-7, and only missed the playoffs because Favre's shoulder wasn't quite right during a season-ending 1-4 stretch of football.

Two years later, the changes taking place in our nation's capital bear a striking similarity.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/21/1692377/line-of-scrimmage-how-high-is.html#ixzz0sX3tvdw3

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

1117, I'd say its more of a 50/50 mix with a team like the pats. They drafted brady, but then guys like Moss/Welker, most of their RB's, are all outside guys....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have already decided to try to "Win Now" when they traded the 2nd Rounder for McNabb. And when they signed the former Saints OT and drafted the rookie Tackle who was a bit of a reach in terms of best player available. When you trade picks for a Veteran QB and you draft very early in the first round for need, you need to pull together a comprehenisve strategy with as many viable alternatives as possible to win near term (i.e you are not building a nucleus of young players through the draft). The Redskins are trying to upgrade on offense in a big way.

But the Redskins probably won't get the full benefit of the upgrades in Head Football Coach, Young Bright Offensive Coordinator, Upgrade to QB, and stabilization of the line without getting a "true #1" WR. Moss and the other two Thomas and Kelly, none of them are real threats to a starting shut down corner in the NFL. You roll coverage to Moss and sit on Cooley and Thomas. For real explosiveness on offense (more than 15 to 18 points per game) you need to match a true talent at WR with McNabb to get the most out of the Shanny construct. Ideally you would get a talent like Jackson and sign Mcnabb for two or three more years and try to make a run that way. Maybe draft a young RB next year and stock up on defensive secondary players in years 2 and 3.

Posted by: DownTownClown | July 2, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins have already decided to try to "Win Now" when they traded the 2nd Rounder for McNabb. And when they signed the former Saints OT and drafted the rookie Tackle who was a bit of a reach in terms of best player available. When you trade picks for a Veteran QB and you draft very early in the first round for need, you need to pull together a comprehenisve strategy with as many viable alternatives as possible to win near term (i.e you are not building a nucleus of young players through the draft). The Redskins are trying to upgrade on offense in a big way.

But the Redskins probably won't get the full benefit of the upgrades in Head Football Coach, Young Bright Offensive Coordinator, Upgrade to QB, and stabilization of the line without getting a "true #1" WR. Moss and the other two Thomas and Kelly, none of them are real threats to a starting shut down corner in the NFL. You roll coverage to Moss and sit on Cooley and Thomas. For real explosiveness on offense (more than 15 to 18 points per game) you need to match a true talent at WR with McNabb to get the most out of the Shanny construct. Ideally you would get a talent like Jackson and sign Mcnabb for two or three more years and try to make a run that way. Maybe draft a young RB next year and stock up on defensive secondary players in years 2 and 3.

Posted by: DownTownClown | July 2, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Good stuff Alan...if we go 9-7, I'd take that happily.

Let's just hope things with McNabb work out much better than they did with Favre in NY (although I'll happily take a Favre '09 type season from DMac in 2011)...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"...the Redskins probably won't get the full benefit of the upgrades...and stabilization of the line without getting a "true #1" WR."

Indeed.

Adding a big, fast #1 type WR means S Moss gets to play in the slot--a natural position for him at this point in his career.

You have to hope the skins decide to pull a trigger and make a trade for V. Jax.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

DTC, the Skins were pretty explosive on offense in 1999 and Michael f-ing Westbrook was their best player. If you have great playcalling, a great system, and a solid QB distributing the ball, you'd be surprised how good a no-name WR can look.

I mean, Albert f-ing Connell went for 1,000 yards that year! If that klepto f*cktard can grab 60 balls in a running offense, I'm pretty sure Devin Thomas can too.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

When the Redskins traded for quarterback Donovan McNabb in early April, many assumed that he'd soon have a new long-term deal with his new team.

Nearly three months later, there has been no evidence of any progress.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 8:25 AM

Of course those "many" didn't take into account that the absolute earliest he could have signed an extension was June 12. That's the date in 2009 that he signed his last extension with the iggles, and you can't sign another within a year.

The deal will get done, fret not.

Posted by: stevek20147 | July 2, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

S Moss gets to play in the slot--a natural position for him at this point in his career.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 9:56 AM


That's what she said.

Sorry, couldn't help it...

I'm still torn on VJ...if we can do the 3-way deal that rids us of AH, I'm 100% behind it. If we gotta give up a high pick or multiple picks, I don't feel good about going into 2011 with even fewer picks than we had this year. I'm all for improvement, but we can't keep mortgaging the future...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Don Coryell was also the HOF presenter for Gibbs.....Shows just how close they were....

He is a definite to get in the HOF this year.....shame it has to be after his death....same thing happened to Fritz Pollard...

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I mean, Albert f-ing Connell went for 1,000 yards that year! If that klepto f*cktard can grab 60 balls in a running offense, I'm pretty sure Devin Thomas can too.

Posted by: brownwood26

Absolutely. Albert Connell wasn't that good and neither was Alvin Harper, but when Harper came here from Dallas he was awful. For some reason Connell flourished in Norv's offense in Washington and Harper, who played in Norv's offense in Dallas, was horrible in Norv's offense here. I'm not exactly sure why it happened that way, but one thing is for certain, the chemistry of players, coaches, and scheme is the most important property of a team's effectiveness.

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | July 2, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I mean, Albert f-ing Connell went for 1,000 yards that year! If that klepto f*cktard can grab 60 balls in a running offense, I'm pretty sure Devin Thomas can too.

Posted by: brownwood26

Absolutely. Albert Connell wasn't that good and neither was Alvin Harper, but when Harper came here from Dallas he was awful. For some reason Connell flourished in Norv's offense in Washington and Harper, who played in Norv's offense in Dallas, was horrible in Norv's offense here. I'm not exactly sure why it happened that way, but one thing is for certain, the chemistry of players, coaches, and scheme is the most important property of a team's effectiveness.

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | July 2, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

He is a definite to get in the HOF this year.....shame it has to be after his death....same thing happened to Fritz Pollard...

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 10:13 AM


This is why there needs to be a HoF committee to do the voting instead of these asshat sportswriters...it would help reduce the amount of sentimental votes or other biases that have NOTHING to do with whether the guy deserves to be in the HoF or not.

A system like that probably would have put guys like Art Monk and Russ Grimm in the HoF long before they finally wised up...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

DTC, the Skins were pretty explosive on offense in 1999 and Michael f-ing Westbrook was their best player.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:03 AM |

Yeah but..Norv was in his 5th or 6th year in Washington and had his offense in place. Westbrook and Connell were with the team for at least 3 or 4 years and would've versed in the offense. You're looking at DT a player who has yet to establish himself in the league (25 reception last year), a player who has issues comprehending offenses,splits and expecting him to make a significant jump in production during a year where everyone is trying to get on-board with yet another new offense. Could it happen..yes but don't bet the house on him especially since he's a player with hamstring issues.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

"If you have great playcalling, a great system, and a solid QB distributing the ball, you'd be surprised how good a no-name WR can look."

You left out the common denominator: Norv Turner.

And in Turner's offensive system, a big fast receiver stretches the field while a smooth tight end exploits the underneath area.

Turner left D.C. and went to Dallas with that system and earned a couple of rings.

Right now, he has in P Rivers, A Gates, D Sproles, V Jackson, L Nannee, the drafted R Matthews, and M Floyd another outstanding offensive skill position core supported by a deep o-line.

The chargers will make a Super Bowl run with a defense that can't be defended.

So, offer them CR/FD in a package for V Jackson, and we keep our picks.

And given his easy manner, Norv won't complain about that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

This is why there needs to be a HoF committee to do the voting instead of these asshat sportswriters...

1-brazillion percent agree...guys like Paul Zimmerman make the whole thing a mockery....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

S Moss gets to play in the slot--a natural position for him at this point in his career.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 9:56 AM


I thought we already settled that it will be Furrey in the slot. Moss in the slot? Ewwwwww.

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

especially since he's a player with hamstring issues.

twis, how many games has he missed with hamstring injuries??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Harper, who played in Norv's offense in Dallas, was horrible in Norv's offense here. I'm not exactly sure why it happened that way...

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | July 2, 2010 10:21 AM


I think it was because he was asked to be a #1 WR here and he just wasn't a #1 guy. It's kinda different to put up numbers when Irvin is drawing all the coverages his way and having to be "the guy" for a 3-13 team.

I just don't think it's "gloom and doom" if we don't get an elite WR here. There are tons of examples of teams winning consistently without a top flight WR and I don't see why we have to bet the farm that VJ is that guy.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

twis, how many games has he missed with hamstring injuries??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 10:33 AM

Not sure about games, but I know he's missed several weeks of training camp and offseason conditioning periods over the last three years because of hamstring problems.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Absolutely. Albert Connell wasn't that good and neither was Alvin Harper, but when Harper came here from Dallas he was awful. For some reason Connell flourished in Norv's offense in Washington and Harper, who played in Norv's offense in Dallas, was horrible in Norv's offense here.

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | July 2, 2010 10:20 AM


WTF? Connell played very good for us. Harper just had a short football carrer/life.

Norv learned his Dallas Cowgirls offense under Ernie Zampese during their LA Rams days.

Ernie Zampese was the 1st Lt to Don Coryell @ SD State and SD Chargers.

And Jimmy Johnson saw the sucess another Coryell fathered offense in the Redskins, so he brought in his own styled Coryell fathered offense in 90/91 to his team......

Where the Redskins messed up is after we gave Petibone his chance (long deserved), we should have either brought in Ernie Zampese as his O.C. or brought him in as the Head Coach after Petibone was fored....Instead, he went to the cowboys...

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

You're looking at DT a player who has yet to establish himself in the league (25 reception last year), a player who has issues comprehending offenses,splits and expecting him to make a significant jump in production during a year where everyone is trying to get on-board with yet another new offense. Could it happen..yes but don't bet the house on him especially since he's a player with hamstring issues.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM


Chargers fans had this EXACT same discussion about VJ two years ago. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I'm still torn on VJ...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse


Don't be. He wants to be the highest paid receiver in the NFL. No way we should commit $50 mil to a guy who is one DUI away from a Ricky Williams-style year long vacation.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 2, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:40 AM

Agreed. The Skins current QB has had a ton of success without a very good corps of receivers.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:40 AM

Agreed. DMcNabb and the Eagles were pretty successful over a period of years without a very good receiver corps.

I will add, however, that when 4th and I saw Bruce Allen a week ago he damned the receivers with faint praise. He even said that guys getting a lot of love off of their OTA performances have to demonstrate they can do it in pads and while taking hits.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I get that lh, but I just have a hard time believing that we're any worse off than the Eagles were for years starting guys like Thrash and Pinkston. I mean, even if DT and MK crap the bed again, I'd take Moss/Wade over Thrash/Pinkston or any combo including Freddie Mitchell ANY day...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Chargers fans had this EXACT same discussion about VJ two years ago. Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 10:56 AM

Fair enough. First, I want to say that I am a DT fan based on his potential. Second, I can' comment on VJ's work ethic, but I do know I read VJ is in AZ working out with DMac, and DT is making a guest appearance on 106 & Park and music videos. Just saying hoping DT really improves his effort over the next few months because he can be a real difference maker if t clicks.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I get that lh, but I just have a hard time believing that we're any worse off than the Eagles were for years starting guys like Thrash and Pinkston. I mean, even if DT and MK crap the bed again, I'd take Moss/Wade over Thrash/Pinkston or any combo including Freddie Mitchell ANY day...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

he was a bit more mobile back when he had these WR's. Plus westbrook was really rolling. Dmac has lost a lost of his mobility that made those offense better then they would be now.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 2, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

So, offer them CR/FD in a package for V Jackson, and we keep our picks.

And given his easy manner, Norv won't complain about that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM

Whaaa? That's Highway robbery....

CR for VJ straight up. FD is too young with too high of a ceiling....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

he was a bit more mobile back when he had these WR's. Plus westbrook was really rolling. Dmac has lost a lost of his mobility that made those offense better then they would be now.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 2, 2010 11:24 AM


This seems a bit exaggerated...I remember years ago DMac said he didn't want to be known as a "running QB" and stopped scrambling, almost to a fault. So it seems to me, it's not that he CAN'T run anymore as much as it is that he WON'T run anymore.

TWISI, you make a solid point...I don't hate on a guy having off-field gigs so long as he's getting it done ON the field too. He's been at all the OTAs from what I've seen, so I can't really say DT hasn't been doing his job.

Oh, and anyone who thinks the Bolts are dumb enough to go for a Carlos Rogers/VJ trade straight up is smoking the stickiest of the icky. I mean, you couldn't even pull that kinda crap on Madden...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

"CR for VJ straight up. FD is too young with too high of a ceiling."

Well, okay.

So offer CR and AH straight up.

We'll lose two headaches, and they'll lose one.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

"he was a bit more mobile back when he had these WR's."

"This seems a bit exaggerated..."


No he is less mobile now, good grief.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 2, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Holy crap, DownTownClown in the house. Seems like it's been a while since I've seen that handle up here.

Agreed with the above that the "Trash and Stinkston" era proves Donovan can take care of business without A-level talent at WR.

Man, SMACK must be loving his Oranje right now...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 2, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, you make a solid point...I don't hate on a guy having off-field gigs so long as he's getting it done ON the field too. He's been at all the OTAs from what I've seen, so I can't really say DT hasn't been doing his job.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:32 AM |

One last point. DT was out with a hammy for two of three weeks earlier this offseason, so while present, he didn't do the on field work. And that's why I am a bit perplexed he's not putting the time in w/ DMac now. I get the impression that DT is the type of person that need reps to "get it". He's not the type to take mental reps and translate that to on field production. All I can say is that it would make more confident in him to read/see that he and DMac are working out togeter before training camps starts.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:20 AM

Damn son, I'm agreeing with you.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I get that lh, but I just have a hard time believing that we're any worse off than the Eagles were for years starting guys like Thrash and Pinkston. I mean, even if DT and MK crap the bed again, I'd take Moss/Wade over Thrash/Pinkston or any combo including Freddie Mitchell ANY day...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

If both DT and MK crap out, we can also throw in a combo of Moss with CC and FD. I think that would cause some real matchup problems for defensive coordinators. If DC's keep regular D, we line up tight and either pound the ball or play action. If they bring in an extra LB or safety, we split out and throw.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 2, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Good lord, we need another topic up here. This V Jackson discussion has been beaten to death.

Wish I could afford to go on vacation untill training camp starts. Or maybe get a big bag of what Chris Sims was allegedly smoking and just numb my mind until then.

Ignore the trolls!

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 2, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

gl have a clue chief, first I'm not the one whining, 2nd, hess is up here EVERY post with the same old same old, he should maybe try and mix it up every now and again....

try and follow along....or ask someone to explain stuff to you when you don't get it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 2, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Whiner,whiner,whiner. You're s full of it.

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 2, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

fritz, you're preaching to the choir...we've seen much better offenses do well with much less than what the Redskins currently have at WR. In the early 2000s the Chiefs were one of the top offenses in the league, and I don't think I could name you one of their WRs. But they had a solid QB, Tony Gonzalez at TE, one of the best O-lines in football, and Priest Holmes.

Cooley isn't that far a step down from Gonzalez, IMO and I'd think McNabb is every bit as good (if not better) than Trent Green. The only thing we lack in that equation is a player with the skill set of a Priest Holmes.

I think the offense will be fine. It's the defense I'm more worried about...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 2, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"Wish I could afford to go on vacation untill training camp starts."

Training camp? I wish I could chill on a tropical beach until the season starts. I've seen great offseasons (over and over again). I've seen great pre-seasons (thanks, Coach Spurrier).

I'm ready to see what this team does under live fire.

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Turner left D.C. and went to Dallas with that system and earned a couple of rings.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2010 10:22 AM |

I could of swore Turner left the Rams, where he was the WR coach, and went to Dallas.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 2, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Hmm... brownie, I think you're on to something. Let's get Priest Holmes to the Park ASAP.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 2, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

At least durring camp there's actually something going on to talk about. In July everything is just rumor and speculation.

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 2, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

What's funny is we've had a whole day to post under a thread about a player not even on the Skins roster, and no Skins history whatsoever.

How about giving us a Jim Zorn thread or a Jason Campbell thread? How about Gregg Williams? (...awaits slings and arrows...)

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Man, SMACK must be loving his Oranje right now...

Posted by: NateinthePDX

Thank you Nate, indeed I am. I took the day off and at the whistle my cell phone rang with the entire office chanting Orange at the same time my dad called my home phone.

Special moment in my life, brought to you by...Sports!

I love you all!

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 2, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, ga, I caught that as well... pretty sure Moe meant that the other way around.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 2, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Let's get Priest Holmes to the Park ASAP.

Posted by: NateinthePDX

Ageing, past their prime RB's! Collect the whole set! Let's bring back Shaun Alexander too!

Posted by: kaasmaster | July 2, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I could of swore Turner left the Rams, where he was the WR coach, and went to Dallas.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 2, 2010 12:07 PM

He did....

LeBron will stay with Cleveland....Book it!

No way he goes to Chicago and plays under MJ's shadow, and no way he plays for MIA and plays under DWade's shadow....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

4th, he's going to Chi and has known it all along. That's why he said earlier in the season he was giving up No. 23. He can't win in Cleveland anytime soon with that roster. He, Bosh/Boozer, Rose, Deng and Noah would be the odds on fave to win the title in 2011.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Just what I feared; every head case in the league is looking at the Redskins as a place to make a great deal of money and contribute nothing. I am surprised Snyder has not pursued a trade for Vick. One of these guys could DH for the 'Skins. Designated Headcase. Every plot need comic relief and Snyder provides it.

Posted by: chopin224 | July 2, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Let's get Priest Holmes to the Park ASAP.

Posted by: NateinthePDX

I saw B Mitch on the "Redskins Now" show speaking on the Brian Westbrook topic. He suggested (after speaking to Westbrook) that Westbrook hasn't signed with the Skins because of the way the salary incentives are structured. The Redskins let Westbrook know that he'd be used as a third down back primarily. However, the Skins tied Westbrook's incentives to rushing benchmarks. B Mitch felt if the Skins reworked it to receiving benchmarks, Westbrook would sign with the Skins. Just FYI.

Posted by: TWISI | July 2, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse


@brownwood26 and BeantownGreg1

Obviously "NO OFFENSE" means something else to you brown. Grow some thick skin guys. MColeman51, welcome to the board. Don't criticize $nyder though, or the board police will jump you on that one. Again, this off season is a duplicate of past off seasons, a decade of them. And some folks don't want to admit that fact. Instead, they are upbeat. That's wonderful with a new owner and a new approach. To think things have changed because you ASSUME $nyder has given up complete control of football operations and supporting him financially after a decade of this madness is foolish. And if you read post from folks that occasionally comment, you'll find plenty of us feel this way. I felt the same wave of optimism when Gibbs was hired the second time around. So did most fans. But where did that get us? Hmmmm.

boicottaggio Snyder!

Posted by: hessone | July 2, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Congrats, SMACK. Hard not to see your lads playing in the final, not to look ahead or anything.

Rooting for Ghana in the next game today. Not that there's anything wrong with plucky Uruguay, mind you, but I want the sole remaining African team to do well AND I want the team that eliminated the US to keep playing at least one more round and look good doing it, to dull our pain a little bit...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 2, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Special moment in my life, brought to you by...Sports!

I love you all!

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 2, 2010 12:20 PM

Congrats. I was pulling for Brazil. You see I like HOT women so by default I was rooting for Brazil.

This is who you sent home..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61438018@N00/189212372/

Put that in your vuvuzela and blow it.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

He, Bosh/Boozer, Rose, Deng and Noah would be the odds on fave to win the title in 2011.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 12:30 PM

That's too much $$$...If you MAX Lebron and Bosh....Rose gonna need a MAX in 2 more years...and Noah gonna want 8 figures...You gonna be spending like $30/40 Mil plus in luxury taxes...I don't know what Deng's worth is....And if you trade out Bosh for Boozer...Boozer doesn't play Defense and (IMHO) is over-rated.

Clevland demostrated they are willing to spend $$ by bringing in Shaq....Bosh can go there with him.....

And if he was planning on switching teams and went to CHI...MJ's # is already retired so he would have been forced to switch anyway....PLUS, I thought you can switch # if you switched teams?? I thought the plan he put in to switch only applied to Cleveland....

...I still see WAS WIZ as the sleeper team to land Lebron....

...And I would advise everyone to NOT buy a Wizard's Areanas Jersey no matter what Leonsis tells you....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 2, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Lebron's 23 talk was foreshadowing. Lebron wants to win now. He's not concerned about Rose or Noah down the road. And if the Bulls are winning titles Reinsdorf isn't going to be concerned about luxury tax (and the cap is going up). Also, Lebron's not concerned so much about getting a max deal as he is about winning. He makes so much off the court he's willing to let others who are not in his position make money on the court. Chi gives him the best chance to win right away.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Gotta go with the Brazil babe.

Delicioso!


Congrats on the win nonetheless smack.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | July 2, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

TWISI, thanks for that, hadn't heard that thing from BMitch. Though I always take stuff he says with a grain (or handful) of salt.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | July 2, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm willing to wager more of your favorite links are .nl than .bz. Can't argue with the quality of the ladies down there, but there is that 130 foot Jesus lording over everything.

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 2, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Ha, kiss my arse, Deisel.

http://attuworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/holland-netherlands-dutch-sexy-soccer-babe.jpg

Posted by: SMACK1 | July 2, 2010 12:44 PM

Speaking somewhat of head...

How about Brazil losing their heads and having to play w/ only 10.

How about two headers (one own goal, other brilliant off of a corner)to survive and advance.

And how sweet would it be to be partying at the Brazen Head. I'd be more than happy to console the Brazil chick.

Posted by: Diesel44 | July 2, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

....Lebron wants to win now. .... Chi gives him the best chance to win right away. ...

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 2, 2010 12:52 PM

LeBron's team posted the best record in the NBA this year and had homecourt advantage throughout. Seems to me LeBron can win in Cleveland with some tweaking, and walking away from it kind of makes him look like a quitter to me.

Only one team gets to be the champ, and if LeBron really cares about winning, he should learn the lessons the Celtics taught him about team ball and figure out what he can do to improve his team's postseason play.

Posted by: Alan4 | July 2, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The New NBA CBA will lower the Cap #s....something like 21/22 NBA teams lost money this past year.....

I agree that Lebron demand the max....But he will never match what the guy a statue was built outside the arena did....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 2, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Air Coryell BEEPS

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I am so confused. Does AH mean A$$ H$$$?

Posted by: birdytom | July 2, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I am so confused. Does AH mean A$$ H$$$?

Posted by: birdytom | July 2, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Do we really need another play like Vincent Jackson with the off the field issues? Moss is under investigation by the league for his association with the Canadian doctor and may be suspended for 4 games. Jackson is suspended for 3 and is demanding a new contract. There have to be better options than him. Let's give DT and MK a chance to prove themselves in training camp. If they don't cut it, MS will cut them loose.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 2, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

In the past, "Hold out" has referred to people who who have signed a contract and do not show up because they want said contract re-negotiated. So Williams remains unsigned, he is not a hold out. Small detail but I expect a deal to be done. He is too important to the team this year.

Posted by: chopin224 | July 2, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

A lot of people overlook how the Ravens won their SB...they got two HoFers (Rod Woodson and Shannon Sharpe) in FA that year. I'd say they don't win jack sh*t that year if those guys aren't wearing purple.

Yeah, they draft well...everywhere except for QB and WR, that is.

The Pats routinely take old guys that other teams discard and insert them in their lineup with positive results. Think Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, and Rodney Harrison.

It's about using both the draft and free agency efficiently. The only way you do that is by picking the right guys. Ultimately, it doesn't matter HOW you get the right guys...just get the RIGHT guys.

Posted by: brownwood26

You are proving my point. These teams picked up role players to go with the players they drafted. You can say that about any SB team. If they don't have 1 or 2 piece parts they don't win the superbowl. Sharper on the Saints is an example. But they did not build the core of their team through free agency. Majority of their starters and their two deep come from the draft. Every team is going to add a few parts every year from free agency but the good teams are consistently drafting and developing players. The reason why that is important is the cost of adding a player in free agency is far more than it is with a drafted player who is under you control for 5 years. It is the difference in the cost of Orakpo and Julius Peppers. You sign peppers to a monster contract and you don't if he is going to fit in and play to the level. Orakpo gets molded to the Skins style of play at a fraction of the cost for 5 years and oh by the way he is playing for his big contract. The good teams top off their drafted core with a few key agents. The bad teams try to by their core by throwing it at free agents and hoping that they pan out.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 2, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

There is too much drama with Vincent Jackson, Skins should go the safe route and just sign T.O.

Posted by: coparker5 | July 2, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

his asking price is already too high...now he misses near a quarter of the first season? forget it. there are better ways to improve than by adding more prima donnas to the team...

Posted by: bacaje | July 1, 2010 1:29 PM

I'm not sure where you learned math but 3 games does equal a quarter of a 16 game season. Also as far as the prima donna comment...because he asked for a better contract, he is a prima donna??? You should be more concerned with the second DUI conviction.

Posted by: gre28man72 | July 1, 2010 4:28 PM
-------------------------------------------
I guess I'll defend myself, though I'm sure it's too late to be read by gre28man72.
-Math: 1/4 of a 16 game season is 4 games. 3 games is not a quarter of a season. It is in fact, 3/16 (18.75%) of a season. Thus, it is "nearly" a quarter of a season for which Jackson will be suspended.

-Prima Donna: Comes from the italian term for a leading lady in an opera. It is generally typified by a person who puts their interests before the team. While merely asking for a high salary alone is not indicative of being a prima donna, abandoning reality and asking for a ludicrously high contract in light of actual on-the-field performance and off-the-field baggage constitutes such behavior.

Another comment likened this salary demand to entering a job interview asking for "market" compensation. I don't enter my job asking to be paid more than the boss when my resume indicates I'm not the boss.

Anyhow, I'm guessing we agree on the underlying point: Keep Vincent Jackson away from DC.

Posted by: bacaje | July 5, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

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